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Why Giovanni Ribisi told Marc Maron there are no aliens in Scientology: A theory

Giovanni_RibisiMarc and Claire Headley are two of the most well known people to leave the Church of Scientology in the last decade. Marc’s 2009 book, Blown for Good, is an exciting escape narrative of their time working at Scientology’s “Gold Base,” the secretive International Headquarters of the church in the California desert.

When Marc was growing up in the church, he was friends with Giovanni Ribisi, another child of Scientologists who lived in Los Angeles. We learned about this last night after we called up Marc to tell him we had heard Ribisi interviewed by comedian Marc Maron, during which the Avatar actor had said some surprising things about Scientology. We asked Marc Headley to give us his thoughts on the interview, and to tell us about his memories of Ribisi…

I like both of these guys. I grew up with Giovanni Ribisi — or “Vonni,” as we used to call him when we were kids. Vonni and I both went to Delphi, which is a Scientology school, and I used to hang out at his house on occasion. He lived on Cumpston St in North Hollywood, right around the corner from Mrs. Gooches Market. They had a pool and we would hang out and skateboard and do all that sort of kid stuff.

Vonni wasn’t fazed by anything. I don’t ever remember him getting upset or ever getting into fights at school. He was just sort of content, though he could see the negative side of things without really getting too riled up about any of it.

We were decent friends — I even dated his twin sister Marissa for a bit. She and I broke up on a Valentine’s Day.

When Vonni did Highway to Heaven with Michael Landon, he had to shave his head to play a kid with cancer on the show. That was pretty cool. I was an extra on a few episodes of The Wonder Years, which Vonni also had a bit part on a few years later. Vonni was always taking off from school to do acting roles, and at one point he just stopped going to Delphi altogether.

After I went off to work at Golden Era Productions, I ran into Vonni a few times over the years and we even shot some scenes for a film at Golden Era with Marissa. Vonni was never in any of the films or videos we shot for Scientology. One of the reasons was that he really wasn’t considered an “active” Scientologist. He wasn’t doing courses and auditing. Which brings us around to why I am even writing about him.

I watch Marc Maron’s TV show Maron, I listen to his podcast, and Claire and I even went to see him at a comedy joint here in Denver last year.



I like Marc Maron and his comedy. This last week he interviewed Giovanni, as he calls himself now. It started out as a pretty standard interview about Giovanni’s upbringing in LA and his acting roles over the years.

Then, about 43 minutes into the recording, Maron began asking Giovanni about Scientology. The first thing that surprised me was that Giovanni said Scientologists are generally under attack. He also said he didn’t think the negative things people say about Scientology are true because he hasn’t experienced them himself. This is standard Scientology training: If you haven’t seen it –- it did not happen. Maron picked up on that and said Giovanni just might not be aware of what’s going on.

Ribisi told him to read a book on it and said it was too complicated to sum up. This is not by accident.

About 50 minutes into the interview, Giovanni showed his true colors and admitted that he doesn’t do Scientology regularly enough to get to a point where he feels he needs to quit it. Maron even calls him a “passive” Scientologist as opposed to a fanatic. Then comes this exchange…


Maron: What you’re saying is that there are practical tools but then there is the mythology of aliens, right?

Ribisi: OK, I, This is another thing, that whole ten percent thing, the whole thing — I have never ever heard of aliens in Scientology, and I’ve been a Scientologist all my life. And I’ve done a lot of courses and a lot…I have never heard of aliens in Scientology. Never, no please.

Maron: No thetans?

Ribisi: Well, that’s not an alien. The concept of a thetan comes from this notion of what’s called theta, right? And the idea of a thetan is essentially the person. It’s the Scientology term for a spirit.

Maron: OK. So it’s just different language, really, about some of the same things all religions deal with.

Ribisi: Exactly.

Maron: I get it.

Ribisi: Ah, you got it.

Maron: I’m all set! You’ve demystified the whole thing for me.

I’ve told people this myself. After growing up in the church and then working for Scientology for 15 years, I had never heard about aliens either. But I had done very little Scientology auditing or auditor training. I was a staff member, and a Sea Org member, for most of my time. I did not have the time or money to do much Scientology auditing or training. Many other people were in the same situation — which is why it’s possible for a longtime member of Scientology to be clueless about the stuff with the aliens.

Giovanni Ribisi doesn’t have the excuse of a staff or Sea Org job with long hours and low pay. He presumably has plenty of money and time, but I don’t see any evidence that he’s reached the “OT” levels or the high levels of training.

After I left Scientology in 2005, I read everything from Clear to OT 8 (the highest level) in one sitting on the Internet — and then I learned about the aliens and the body thetans for free.

But presumably, Giovanni hasn’t learned about that, which is why he apparently doesn’t know that he’s not just a thetan, but he’s got lots of body thetans attached to him, which are essentially aliens.

At the end of the interview, Maron asked Giovanni about Scientology’s hate for psychiatry. At this point, Giovanni goes way off script and says that Scientology only dislikes the drug treatment side of psychiatry. (No, Vonni. Scientology hates every part of psychiatry with a passion.)

Marc Maron didn’t sound like he knew very much about Scientology, but what struck me is that he may still know more about Scientology’s stranger elements than Giovanni, who has been in it for 40 years. But that’s entirely possible, because Scientology maintains strict secrecy with its lower-level members.

I can imagine that Ribisi might get pulled aside after this interview, and be given a talk about getting up the Bridge. In Scientology, a member who was only part way up the Bridge after as many years as he’s been in would be called a “dilettante,” and he’d be under intense pressure to get in gear. But as a celebrity, he’s been allowed to slide.

I plan on sending Marc Maron a copy of my book. He will find out a lot more about Scientologists than he could with one sitting right next to him.

Thanks very much, Marc.

And for Ribisi, we’ll make sure he has a chance to learn at least a little about Scientology’s space opera and L. Ron Hubbard’s ideas about invading alien forces that rule our solar system. He was quite open about this in a lecture he gave in 1952. (This was more than a decade before he would write the notorious “Xenu” material of “OT 3” which was satirized so well in a 2005 episode of South Park.) In this lecture, Hubbard explains that these invader forces rule Venus and Mars to this day, and that’s where you are whisked to be “implanted” between your lives on Earth.

It’s fun stuff, Ribisi, and it’s central to Scientology’s philosophy of life and death. You really ought to know it by now.


UPDATE: We want to point out something about the word “aliens” which others have brought to our attention. Scientologists are very good at word games, and if Ribisi does know more than Headley assumes, the actor may be playing a word game here.

In Scientology, we are thetans — immortal spirits that have lived countless lives going back trillions of years. Part of Scientology is recovering your memories of living millions and billions of years ago on other planets in other parts of the universe. (Headley’s theory is that Ribisi didn’t bother getting far enough into Scientology counseling to experience that, which may be the case.)

Because they assume they have lived in other parts of the galaxy, Scientologists don’t technically consider those beings from other places “aliens.” We’re all just thetans, living at other times and places in the universe.

So even a longtime Scientologist who had completed OT 3 and learned the Xenu story and then spent years removing “body thetans” from themselves could still say with a straight face that there are no “aliens” in Scientology.

Just one more reason why it would be nice for someone with some actual Scientology knowledge to ask these celebrities questions.

Second Update: Now this is an interesting development…



Posted by Tony Ortega on June 13, 2014 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS (We read Scientology’s founding text) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25

UP THE BRIDGE (Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47

GETTING OUR ETHICS IN (Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14

SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING (Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43

PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer


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  • Every time I think of Ribisi, I remember that episode of the X-Files where he played the lightning boy. So creepy and memorable.
    Caption contest for the center pic?

    • Suppressive Tomato

      That time when John Travolta convinced Ribisi that TR 1.1 had some rather unexpected commands.

        Thank you.
        BEND OVER!
        Thank you.
        Thank you.

        • Barbara Angel

          Please sir may I have another………………

    • Observer

      STAND UP!
      THANK YOU!
      THANK YOU!

      • Barbara Angel

        Please sir may I have another…………..

      • . . .

        • Observer

          TOUCH THAT WALL!
          THANK YOU!

          Er, I meant … thank you!

    • Nibs Said Better Than 90%

      Nat – Is that Jack Black sitting next to GR in the top upper left corner photo?

    • Body Thetans conduct electricity. That’s a well-known scientific fact, and one good reason to have them scraped off regardless of the expense.

      • Mooser

        “Body Thetans conduct electricity.”

        The ramifications of this fact are so large, they could be called rama-lama-ding-dongifications!
        This changes everything, and everything thought will need to be rethunk.
        So, the little buggers do conduct electricity! Oh well, what can I say, except, “I should have known”?

    • D.Y.G.

      I was thinking today about all the creepy, fucked up characters he’s played. I forgot about this.

      • MaxSpaceman

        He’s a character actor with a whole lot of range, who will take on parts other actors (as leading men) will ignore.

        • Nibs Said Better Than 90%

          Max – he is an actor I really admired before finding out he is a $ci-bot (that goes for his sister as well).

          So disappointing

          • MaxSpaceman

            Me too, Nibs SBT90. His performance in “Heaven” opposite Cate Blanchett is most excellent and a favorite. I considered him one of the best actors in Hollywoodland. Now, I still see his talent as being immense, in his ability to portray nearly any ‘type’ of character and doing it better than his contemporaries might have, but his Clampire membership and support, and his being a Lyig Liar Who Lies, spoils whatever opinion I held of him.

            • Nibs Said Better Than 90%

              Really hope he is the actor alluded to in the previously posted blind item and he is distancing himself from $ci. One day to blow completely, hopefully . . .

            • Rita Gregory

              Have you seen “The Gift” excellent movie with Giovanni. Also has Cate. I’ll have to check out “Heaven”.

          • Rita Gregory

            Me too Nibs. Giovanni gave an excellent performance in “The Gift” Cate Blanchett, Keanu Reeves, and Hilary Swank are also in it. Probably the only role I’ve ever seen Keanu in which he was actually good.

            • jeff

              In Gus Van Sant’s My Own Private Idaho, Keanu was phenomenal.

            • Rita Gregory

              I have not seen that. I’ll add it to my list.

        • Barbara Angel

          Well he likes to run with karate chop hands and he’s not to bright perhaps he could do a remake of Forrest Gump but make it more like a reality show.
          Then everyone gets to watch him run as he seems to like doing that.

  • Espiando

    Hey, Giovanni, Daniel Day-Lewis has three Oscars and now a knighthood to go with it. Don’t you think you’d better get your ass in gear…oh, wait, you don’t have a hundreth the talent Day-Lewis does, and that’s only in Sir Daniel’s little finger. You fucking hack.

    (And speaking of hacking, Laura Davies also got a knighthood. And Angelina Jolie got an honorary knighthood. Congrats.)

    • Hey, be fair, after handing $100,000 to a criminal dwarf Daniel became a very well-regarded internationally-recognized humanitarian. That trumps a knighthood (as well as a barony) any day.

    • Elar Aitch

      Why work hard for accolades when you can pay $$ for bowling trophies

    • Captain Howdy

      At first that got my ire up because I’d always thought that DDL was Irish. but I double checked and he has dual citizenship, so I’ll cut him some slack.

  • Techie

    I don’t know anything about the OT levels, never got that far in my 30 years in. But when I was new I just loved the whole track, space opera part of Scientology. Boo Hoos and clams opening and closing on the beach, entities in your elbows, saucer crews answering up when you check them on the meter – that was music to my ears as a long time science fiction and fantasy fan. The Bookstore Officer (my old flame who got me in) would say “What about something less heavy-duty, like Scientology, a New Slant on Life”? I just went for the Scientology 8-8008 with the angels on the cover instead and the “wavelengths of emotion” inside. As a child of the 60s, with all my friends into Tiger Balm and marijuana, studying the I Ching and long hair it was a natural for me. So the saucer thing didn’t put me off. I also did Sensitivity Training, Encounter Therapy, Gestalt therapy, patchouli incense, chambray shirts and blue jeans. The “Greening of America” was a clarion call for parts of my generation. Later on, at the Int Base, we used to see saucers all the time. I asked one of the Security Guards about it and he told me he had seen a saucer zipping along the river bed at high speed. He reported it to L Ron Hubbard, who told him “not to mess around with those guys, they play it rough!”. We used to see lights in the sky, seemingly moving fast then suddenly changing direction far faster than any normal aircraft could do without destroying itself. Of course, we saw those after several days and nights in a row without sleep, so who knows what they really were. Saucers and aliens, invader forces and the “Role of Earth” (Prison Planet) all have been a part of Scientology from the start, anyone who pretends not to know about it is just lying to save face. I recently read “When Prophecy Fails” by Leon Festinger et al, all about early Dianeticists and others who fell for a saucer apocalypse prediction. The space alien schtick is really just a version of the old psychic fad that was really popular in Victorian times: a.Get some people together who have poor cognitive skills. b.Convince them that there is some esoteric way to achieve knowledge, like the Ouija board or spirits, automatic writing or previous lives. c.Lie your ass off, make up some really creepy stuff for them to believe until they are stupefied with cognitive dissonance. d.Start asking for money or support. They will give it in spades and be glad to help. After all, the end is coming soon. Who needs all those old stock certificates? Etc. Hubbard was one of those, except he managed to inject some borrowed psychotherapy into the mix. Just enough to convince most of his shills he was for real, at least for a while. When the first wave began to fall off, he changed his spiel and worked up a new one, over and over for decades. Supposedly every Scientologist is supposed to study the “Basics” which includes “History of Man”, the “Philadelphia Doctorate Course”, and so on and on, all packed with Marcabian civilizations, atomic race cars and alien outposts on Mars. Why belong to the woo-woo central religion of all time and not own up to the most hilarious part of it? Embrace your inner alien Scientologists, we will all applaud you for your honesty. Nobody cares what you believe or how odd it is, what we care about is the human wreckage it leaves behind.

    • Barbara Angel

      Probably just blubbard ordering LSD to be put in the water supply.
      For the greater good of all of course.

      • Techie

        Who needs LSD when you have the Whole Track, the fabulous L rundowns that blow you out of your head and hundreds of hours of space alien exorcism? Safe as Milk, and no weird aftertaste!

    • Nibs Said Better Than 90%

      Techie – Thank you for sharing this

      • Mooser

        I loved it, too. From now on I am embracing my inner alien, unless he eats his way through my chest.

    • Elar Aitch

      I think Vonnie has an MU on alien

    • aegerprimo

      Perfect Techie. The whole space opera thing about Scientology is what attracted me, and kept my interest. I never made it to the OT levels, but was never put off by the “secret will be revealed” thing when you get to the level… and you will know the answer to life the universe and everything. I was willing to work to get to that level….
      (face palm)

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Shit, it was 42 all along.

        • Techie

          “So long and thanks for all the fish!” “You can fly if you just think the right thoughts!” At least Douglas Adams was kidding. I think. Don’t forget your towel.

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            Thanks to South Park, I can only read that last sentence in Towelie’s voice.

        • aegerprimo

          Heh heh…I am a BIG Douglas Adams fan!

          My signature at ESMB =
          “…There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened…”

          My signature at OCMB =
          “The Answer to the Great Question… Of Life, the Universe and Everything… Is… Forty-two.”

          Not sure if anyone gets it (my signatures) except those who have read “Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy” and those who own a digital watch… Just sayin’.

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            Me too. HHGTTG and the Discworld series are the only books that make me laugh out loud while reading…….and all of you guys here.

          • Frodis73

            The first one was my sig for quite awhile too. Love that.

      • DodoTheLaser

        You and me too, Aegerprimo.

    • Mooser

      “friends into Tiger Balm…”

      Me, I was stuck with the Bag-balmers. Everybody was always trying to slather Bag-balm on me. Tiger-balm was too fast for my crowd.

    • DodoTheLaser

      Beautiful post, Techie. Thanks for your insight.

  • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

    Because Hubbard himself was incapable of summarizing his Scientology, likewise in this first 60 or so years of Scientology, there’s not been a good summary even still, none from scholars, they have NOT wrapped their wits around the whole shebang, even Urban, even Kent. Scholars take small bites, and rather have followed the media and writers, and none of them have really put the whole shebang into proportionate accurate bites for the public.

    Tony, you fit in the expert category, and still are my hopeful choice for someday summarizing it all, for the Columbia Encyclopedia short summary version of the definition.

    Scientologists (Ribisi) are not taught to summarize their religion by Hubbard, who disdained such a summary, and scholars are not there yet.

    My summary:

    Think of the following Hubbard books:

    “Self Analysis”
    “Have You Lived Before This Life”
    “Dianetics Today” (the out of print 1975 edition)
    Then needed is a really simplified summary of the exorcism levels (OT 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7) in somewhat neutral scholarly but journalistic clear language.

    The core “levels” of Scientology are their lower level talk therapy.
    Mid and chunky engram running of today’s “New Era Dianetics” getting one to the “Clear” status, supposedly clear of one’s wholetrack trauma, essentially.
    Top levels, the mainline Hubbard “top” levels, are the OT 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7, the exorcism “upper” levels.

    Then the major sideline “spiritual” steps that get most of the public attention, but are majorly incomplete small parts or sideline parts of the full Hubbard “Legacy of the Tech” like in Hubbard’s all time important “From Clear to Eternity” writing. (No scholar, no journalist to date has been spoonfed Hubbard’s final public “Ron’s Journal” writings, which are his end of life hope for what HE (the great L. Ron) thought of his whole spiritual writings/lectures and practices, what HE wished his movement followers to gain from what the great Ron did for mankind (cough, gasp).

    Needed is a summary book, I had wished the great people who had taken on Scientology these last 10 years would venture to “go there” into Ron’s last minute of his life hype hopes, at least as knowledgable devil’s advocates for what Ron thought publicly of his whole shebang.

    Ribisi is not a Scientology spokesperson, and all extant Scientology spokespeople have never spoken for the whole shebang, they are untrained to do so.

    It takes suffering through some of Hubbard’s most self pat on the back glorious writings, and I think I’ll just round up the batch of the Hubbard’s writings on himself and his highest goals, and his final public “Ron’s Journal” articles, because as sickening as those are to read, and unbelievable in this cosmic hype, those writings, and then Hubbard’s “tech films” self patronizing self gloating grand cosmic science fictionesque future lives, future planets, future decayed civilizations out there in the cosmos, all those OTHER space civilizations out there, awaiting the future landing of Ron’s tech, as brought to them by future Scientologists who come to them (Ribisi has NOT seen and contemplated even his future lives responsibility, which he could and should do, by at least watching the Isaac Hayes “Why TRs” tech film which is shown to the Class 6 Scientologists, Class 6 Scientologists are called “Dukes of the Tech” by Hubbard, Ribisi is NOT anywhere close to being a “Duke” of the tech, that’s for sure).

    For the general public, skim:

    “Self Analysis”
    “Have You Lived Before This Life”
    “Dianetics Today” (read the science fiction past lives space civilization incidents in the back of the book)

    and the public is still waiting, probably in vain, for a summary accurate and scholarly and journalistic well written of the exorcism levels of Scientology, but THEN, someone could summarize Scientology.

    Scientologists are trained, by Hubbard, not to summarize it.

    It’s a past lives/future lives crank pseudo therapy, trauma elimination of one’s past lives, and trauma in space civilization past lives civilizations, a lotta exorcism of dead ancient past lives civilization humanoid souls where today those ancient alien space civilation souls supposedly encrust us all, and the sideline spiritual services then make sense as the sideline services those services are! (Purification Rundown, Happiness Rundown, L’s rundowns, Truth Rundown, Super Power Rundowns, Cause Resurgence Rundown, Flag Only Rundowns, Key to Life, Life Orientation Course).

    The mainline Hubbard Bridge in Hubbard’s final Ron’s Journals, particularly the one that lays out the “broad bands” of spiritual case advance, and Hubbard’s time estimate for those broad bands, are the core that Ribisi only himself reached the very lowest levels, and Ribisi and all Scientologists (Hubbard included) are loathe to publicly discuss and summarize.

    They, and really all who’ve really taken sat through all the show and tell that ex members have said and written, still, we live in a phase where the summary of Scientology is still to be done, namely the upper levels included in with the lower levels in a full summary of what these Scientologists are doing with their minds.

    It’s a whole lot of false memory installation going on in Scientology.

    • Techie

      Oh well, in a decade or so it will just be a subject for anthropologists looking for a cool title for a doctoral thesis: ‘Sincere Deception, a study in 20th Century Scientology.'” Someday somebody will figure out how the brain really works and all these crackpot ideas will join the Piltdown Man and Epicycles on the dust heap of junk science.

      • Mooser

        Well the way to a man’s heart is is through his stomach, and the nose is the gateway to the mind.
        Ask Dr. Freeman.

        • Techie

          I think the icepicks went in through the eye sockets, not the nose (if I recall correctly). Your mileage may vary.

          • Mooser

            Maybe (in fact, you’re right, of course, and thanks) that’s so, but the Dr. Freeman I knew peddled cocaine.

      • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

        I remember in 1975, driving around LA, noticing that one very odd looking building, now torn down, of some oddball religion.

        The Scientology today “oddball” building is the SuperPower building. It’s the one building that was built around Scientology practice, and what becomes of the Superpower/Flag building, in the decades or longer, to come, will be of note.

        I always thought that “senior management” ought to make a stone building, like some kind of pyramid, something that would really last!

        The Int Base is built right on top of a seismic fault line, so Ron’s Bonnie View is just rubble waiting to manifest, and the RTC Building is toast.

    • Techie

      Also, there is the “What is Scientology” film with Tony Hitchman. Hubbard spouting on and on with his shit-eating grin. Surely that is a summary of Scientology? Oh, forgot it was mostly excuses to weasel out of criticisms.

      • Mooser

        I thought it had already been determined by independent analysis that Scientology is a desert topping, a floor wax, and something else which I forget, but it is at least a desert topping and a floor wax.

        • rom661

          I think the one you’re missing is that it is a form of birth control as well as appetite suppressant. I just endured five minutes of Hubbard’s drivel and lost all desire for sex and food.

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          Sometimes I think you might just be Terry Pratchett, playing a joke on us all.

          • Barbara Angel

            Love, love, love Terry Pratchett books, he makes me laugh out loud no matter how many times I read them over from my collection. Very sad for him concerning his dementia, he has a brilliant sense of humour and imagination.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Very sad indeed.

      • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

        The 1968 long interview by Granada TV with LRH, is what taught me how ridiculously crippled we all were by Hubbard’s failure to define even Scientology to us. LRH was so wonderfully called out by this interviewer!

    • Troy MacGyver SP

      Chuck,I’ve been meaning to ask you where people send donations to the,Sea Arghh place where people can leave and be protected? Are there certain items they need? Are you the right person to ask? I’ve heard it is an around,L A.,but that’s all I know.

      • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

        I’m NOT the first contact point of people leaving anymore, the internet allows people to branch out to people they are more close to.

        If a person just out posts on an internet chat site, like ESMB or Clambake or even here, then they can informally be contacted by viewers, and helped on the spot.

        I’m not getting those kind of calls, never did, on the 866-XSEAORG number.

        I get only mostly 5-10 hang up calls a week on the 866-XSEAORG phone line.

        Today, with all the internet full of ex Scientology chat sites and this blog, ex’s post their stories and comments, and others find them.

        Of all the people who’ve I have on the list to provide jobs, place to stay, etc, etc, there’s more people who offer that, than there are ex members seeking such.

        Sea Argh members are basically trained workaholics who need to be re-educated as normal citizens.

        Ex Sea Org members have traditionally figured out their exit plans, and gotten on in life, re-educating themselves slowly, on their own, finally reading the internet, wising up, discovering the huge community of ex members, reaching out to old friends, and just getting on.

        Ex members take some time to get over Scientology’s inbred antipathy to psychology and psychiatry. This in some cases delays their reading of their mental health options that some need, due to the almost PTSD life enforced on them.

        There’s not now and never really been some pot of money to “help get people restarted”.

        So if you wish, just keep note of new people posting, I think the Ex Scn Kids site ought to be the site that could potentially most help those in financial need to those wishing to financially help them.

        The Ex Scientology Kids, 2nd generation Scientologists, some reached out to top other ex members, got help for a while, but all just by them reaching out and being contacted informally by whoever happens to notice their asking for some help on the chat sites.

        Ask Tory, she can answer better for LA. I do mainly phone question answering of mainly newbie ex members and phone answering to family members who are bewildered with their newbie they suddenly lost into the Sea Org.

        • Barbara Angel

          There are some *Really Kind Big Hearted People* out here in the wog world. If only the rondroids dared to look and knew this, they would find the courage and blow.
          Courage is definitely a prerequisite, as it would be a terrifying experience for them to seek help from the evil wogs. Sigh……

    • Sincere scholars enjoy immersing themselves in Hubbard’s tomes the way a gourmet enjoys eating chicken nuggets fished from a sewer.

      Pseudo-scholarship (from pseudo- + scholarship) is a work (e.g., publication, lecture) or body of work that is presented as, but is not, the product of rigorous and objective study or research; the act of producing such work; or the pretended learning upon which it is based.

  • aegerprimo


    Tom Cruise Desperate For New Wife, New Life, New Baby: Willing To Sever Ties With Church
    Of Scientology?

    Quote from the article (BTW it runs with Disqus comments)….

    Poor Tom Cruise. He works so, so hard, and it so rarely pays off. I guess that’s what happens when you ‘out’ yourself as a Scientology loonie, despite your considerable talent and dedication to your craft. He’s lost his status as the country’s biggest movie star, not to mention his marriage, thanks to Scientology. And according to reports, he’s desperate for an image re-haul, which includes a new wife and a new baby.

    Life & Style claims that Tom is ‘unfulfilled’ in his life, especially with the lack of personal accomplishments. A source tells Life & Style, “Professionally, he’s accomplished pretty much everything he set out to do, but to fulfill himself personally, he wants a new bride and a new child. The actor is asking friends, family and Church of Scientology members to be on the lookout for the fourth Mrs. Cruise.”

    Has he really accomplished ‘everything’ he wanted to do professionally? The guy hasn’t even won an Oscar, and his career seems to be going down the dump these days. Edge of Tomorrow didn’t even crack $40 million during the opening weekend, and that was actually one of the best reviewed of Tom’s recent films! You’d think that Tom would be focusing on that, not getting a wife and baby.

    Perhaps he thinks that getting a new family will fix his image problems? After all, people still associate him with Katie Holmes and Suri Cruise, even though he barely seems to be in touch with them right now. Maybe he believes that getting a new family will bring back the public’s good will, and he might not be completely off in that regard. The public loves nothing more than a good comeback story, but for that to happen, Tommy will somehow have to cut ties with Scientology – and I’m sorry, but I just don’t see that happening.

    • media_lush

      I like that they’ve adopted the word I coined “looney” [they spelt it wrong though]… I’m seeing it being associated with the s word more and more (makes you proud, I know, ed)

      • Jimmy3

        These people disagree that you coined that term…

    • texasexpat

      What are the odds that TC will decide to put his career before his “religion”, drop Scientology like a hot potato, go public with a remorseful, weeping, crying, “I had no idea of the abuses” campaign and winning back the fans that have turned their backs on him? Could it happen?

      • media_lush

        it’s inevitable… there’s no way scientology is going to expand … ever; the proof it’s contracting is becoming a standard, and more importantly, provable fact everyday.

        we all know he’s not the sharpest tool but he does have an actor’s ego and he can’t but notice how happy and successful people like Leah, Jason Beghe, even his first wife are since they left his church. Personally I think it will be one of the others to blow first. Once Miscavige gets arrested or flees the country then they’ll all disown the cult like rabies.

        • texasexpat

          He would have to do some sort of rehab as that is what all other actors and politicians do when caught in a scandal (sex, drugs, racism, just being an asshole) I can see the headlines now…Tom Cruise enters rehab for ….. my imagination ends there. I will let some of the more creative members of the board finish this for me…

          • Missionary Kid

            Ton Cruise enters rehab to remove aliens from his mind.

            • texasexpat

              Tom Cruise enters rehab to kick his koolaid habit

            • Missionary Kid

              Good one. One can hope.

      • Barbara Angel

        Not sure about that? mustravage has video and audio tapes of his confessions and files full of the same. So unless davey drops dead on a pile of burnt folders, tommy boy can’t risk having all his private details released to the Tabloids.
        mustravage in his vicious, sadistic need for revenge on anyone who has crossed him, will not let tommy boy leave. He wouldn’t be able to let him leave peacefully, his need for revenge is all for the ‘greater good’ of course.

        • texasexpat

          I would respect TC more if he just did it and let the dirt fly. I don’t think anybody would be that shocked anyway

          • Barbara Angel

            Not sure about that, he’s already living in a goldfish bowl, having his deeply *private* confessions released to the Tabloids would be ghastly. I’m a nobody and I wouldn’t want that to happen to me. But the old expression applies: “lay down with dogs, you get up with fleas”, sorry tommy boy but you are entwined with a psychopath and will reap the results.

      • aegerprimo

        I think his fans would support him if he did, but the Co$ knows his deepest, darkest, personal secrets (in his PC folders), and the “fair game” policy is followed even though they deny it. Leaving the Co$ is scary.

  • Sandy

    Jeez, you Detroit guys!. You are making this Twins fan NUTS!

  • Juicer77

    RED-X __ RED-X __ RED-X __ RED-X __RED-X
    Make Friday the 13th unlucky for the Co$ spam scam. Get those lying ads off Craigslist. Your help is appreciated. Make sure to check farther down each city’s list, more current ads may show up lower down.

    Main list:

    Fresh from San Francisco:

    • aegerprimo

      Oops, we doubled up today!
      (I need to use my refresh button more often.)

      • aegerprimo


      • Juicer77

        Whoops, made mine shorter 🙂

        • aegerprimo

          Here is a Friday the 13th scary Jason mask.
          FLAG Co$ ads on Craigslist!

  • aegerprimo

    RED X – RED X – RED X

    If you have extra time, FLAG THE ADS! Click “prohibited” at the top of the ads to flag them.

    Here is the full list at the Taking Down Co$ ads on Cragslist Project on WWP

    If you don’t have time to flag the ads in the whole list, select a city or area and flag those. OR flag the newest ads. The newer the ad and the more it is flagged the easier it is to take it down.

    The Co$ has a “write-up” on how to post ads on Craigslist. Tony wrote an article about it –
    The Scientology Guide to Craigslist

    Learn more about the “Clear Craigslist” project originated on WWP
    Anonymous and Craigslist: Proof that Scientology Knows It’s Under Attack

    • Shanester

      Double trouble!

      I wanted to share a success story. Unlike half of the success stories I was forced to invent while becoming increasingly disillusioned with Scientology, this success story comes from the bottom of my heart: today, for the first time since I joined the Red-X brigade about a month ago, there is no blue in my Cravenlists. Every single one is purple!

      • aegerprimo

        WOOO HoooooOOO!

      • Troy MacGyver SP

        Thanks !

  • Locale

    LRH is one of the most ridiculed and reliably doxed liars of the 20th century. How can anyone follow this huckster? It boggles the mind that scientology still exists.

    Shame on the parents who expose their children to this fraudster.

  • media_lush
    • aegerprimo

      Comments are great too…
      (refresh for screenshot)

    • outraged

      Tom Cruise has turned into a wax figure of himself.

      This is what happens when you live a lie.
      And his lies are unforgivable. It is too late for Cruise.
      Tommy Boy has left the harbor and sunk the ship with his own friendly fire.

  • Michael Leonard Tilse

    I used to work for Giovanni’s father Al Ribisi. I met his sisters once at the shop. Al was a “printer broker” in that he would do all the work necessary to get a magazine or whatever printed once it was designed and all the content was assembled and layouts made up with all the text.

    He had a few regular clients and odd printing jobs that he handled, but the majority of his business was the scientology monthly magazine and special promo issues.

    I was his production manager for about 3 months in the early 90’s. The organizations like the scientology “Advanced Organization Los Angeles” or the “Celebrity Center” would have a magazine to print, needing to get out each month. Some times there were two at once.

    Typically a magazine printing would go like this: The magazine would be put together by the organization staff for what ever “Church” it was. Of course it always had to be mailed out by “Thursday at 2:00pm” in order to count on the statistics for that week. “Pieces of promotional material mailed out” kind of statistic.

    As the printer broker, we would try to get all the photos and artwork and transparencies and stuff as soon as possible so we could have some margin of error in getting everything done.

    So, frequently we would finally have everything in hand only on Thursday night, more often on Friday and a few times on Saturday. So we had to take all the photos and transparencies and artwork to the color separation shop and get that started, get the printers started on making the “flats” with all the text negatives from the shooting boards. Schedule press time, schedule a mailing house, get the address list tapes “de-duplicated” for the mailing house.

    Usually the editor at AOLA if it was “Advance Magazine” would have to come out to the color separation facility way out in Chino some time on Sunday or Monday to approve the color separations. She was very picky with the quality and purity of the color scans and sometimes they had to be redone several times. Then finally getting everything to the printers so all the plates could be made. If it was lucky, we got the press run at like 2:00 am Wednesday morning at a web offset house in City of Industry and I got the job of going down and approving the press-check for final color once they got it on press. Usually the runs were just over 100,000 for the magazines.

    If the job had too many problems or we got the materials from the editor late sometimes we got the press run on Thursday morning sometime. Then we had to pile it into a truck and haul it over to the mailing house in Hollywood get all the address labels applied, then sort them (usually the labels were pre-sorted by zip code) into U.S.P.O. approved trays and sacks by region to qualify for the bulk mail rate, get them over to the Post Office and get them accepted by the Post Office by 2:00.

    It was somehow always frantic, especially if there were two mags in a week.

    The orgs didn’t always pay Al for all this, even the postage, on time. One time I had to put a mailing postage charge of around $4,000 on my personal card because AL hadn’t gotten the money yet and I was at the post office at 1:55 PM on a Thursday with 105,000 pieces of promo to go out.

    I couldn’t take it. It was just so much stress. And of course if you screwed up, it wasn’t just an unhappy customer it was also trips to ethics and all that crap too.

    • Freethinker

      So you worked with Al Ribisi! He was in the 60’s band People! (the “!” was part of the band name). They had one hit: “I Love You” (a good song). This is from the Wikipedia article about People! [!]:

      “After all of the band members except lead singers Norman and Mason embraced Scientology, Norman claimed other members of the band issued the ultimatum: Join Scientology or leave the band. Norman and Mason both refused. Some band members indicate that Norman was asked to leave the band because he was seen as a “Suppressive Person”. Norman claimed that he was harassed by other members of Scientology.

      Did Al ever talk about any of this?

      • Michael Leonard Tilse

        No, this is the first I have heard of it. But it doesn’t surprise me. The history of Moody Blues, Robin Williams Merry Band and I am sure many more have dreadful scientology related stories to be told.

        • Freethinker

          Off the top of my head I can add the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band.

          • Freethinker

            Note: This is not true! I am in error. Capt’n Howdy got it right: The Incredible String Band.

        • Captain Howdy

          Incredible String Band.

        • L. C. Spencer
    • media_lush

      I can’t remember if it was you who told us the story here of the cult’s attempts to rangle in Chuck Norris… either way I wish I had screengrabbed it as it gave me the lulz

      • Michael Leonard Tilse

        Might be me. And it wasn’t “Tried.” He was IN. He did the original OT Levels up to VII. I remember seeing him in scientology promotional pieces in the late ’70s.

        That was the same era as Ingo Swann and IIRC, the Astronaut “Hap” Hazzard.

        • media_lush

          HOLY SHITBALLS…. man, this story has to be told … Chuck Norris an operating thetan Level 7… he’s been told about Xenu; no wonder he goes around Texas schools preaching that Jesus existed the same time as dinosaurs, must make perfect sense to him.

          Dear Tony – please try and interview Chuck,,, can you imagine how 4Chan would pick up on that!… we need the full story!!

          • Michael Leonard Tilse

            And don’t even ASK about Clint Eastwood.

            • media_lush

              … yeah, scientologycelebrity had a whole thing with that douche photographer guy who was dating his daughter as way to bring the man with no name in… I swear once the fear of retribution goes completely the stories that come out will boggle the world!

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              Well, if the conversation I had with Vicki Aznaran and Warren McShane outside of a coffee shop in Houston, Texas doing RTC business is any guideline, that was not a “bring him in” it was a recovery.

            • media_lush

              aye caramba!

            • Scream Nevermore

              Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!! Don’t care about Norris, always thought he was a tit, but not Clint!!!!!

        • Jimmy3

          Never repeat this story, Michael. Please. The OT Chuck Norris jokes will destroy the internet as we know it. Unless… unless OT Chuck Norris flies around the earth really, really fast to travel back time in like Superman did. Essentially, only OT Chuck Norris alone can save the internet from OT Chuck Norris jokes.

          • Michael Leonard Tilse

            Well the Marvel super comic story will be out with the OT VII Chuck Norris fighting the parallel universe Chuck Norris for the Ga-lac-tic heavyweight crown. (Spoiler: This results in a Cognitive matter-anti-matter explosion so monstrous that all thinking entities in the universe cry out in fear.)

            • Jimmy3

              I can’t even comprehend what you just said because my mind just blew up.

          • media_lush

            can you imagine the memes,,, I always made a point of writing about the jesus/dinosaur story when I come across a Norris meme on imgur… can’t wait to say he was a high level closet clam (I like that word, “closet clam”, works on so many levels, ed)

            • Jimmy3

              The memes and the shoops would be amazing, but they would be so powerful that the internet could not possibly contain them. I’m imagining BTs fleeing when Chuck Norris sees his reflection in a mirror. I’m imagining Chuck Norris angry about being stuck at a red light, so, bam, OT power roundhouse kick the shit out of that traffic light. What’s that? What’d the needle say? STFU EMETER! roundhoused all the way to Venus. It might even graze Souse up there. And a lot of this could happen on top of a moving train.

            • media_lush

              love the story that in real life Bruce Lee kicked his ass…. I also hear he’s kind of broke nowadays… wonder if he’s still being reg’d


          • DodoTheLaser

            At least Chuck Norris showed up in Expendables 2. It was pretty funny too.

  • media_lush

    … and the Cruise piss-take goes on and on… he’s nothing to do with this story but…..


    • Troy MacGyver SP

      don’t see a pick?

      • media_lush

        refresh the page or click on the icon… which shouldn’t really be there… here’s another upload attempt…

        edit… they’re both up now… disqus glitch

        • And I don’t rent cars!

          More Jesse Kove and Kerri Kasem photos. There really are a couple. Check it out this photo stream –

          • media_lush

            damn, and I was just going to bed… I’ve added a couple more to my Jess Kove special… 2pm UK time (2 hours after Tony’s regular post)… was kinda worried about the ad that appeared on this page though….


          • L. C. Spencer

            Waaaaaait, she’s dating a vaper? wow.

        • Captain Howdy


  • HollywoodGuy

    I know that more and more younger Scientologists are hearing about Xenu.

    A few years ago, I was hanging out with an old friend from Delphi. She was still a Scientologist. We were talking about critics, she didn’t understand why they kept talking about “Xenu” and that she didn’t know what that was. So I told her, “I know what they’re talking about, that’s something on OT III that you’re not supposed to know about. But don’t worry, it’s not something that will make you sick if you find out about it. It’s just kept confidential because it’s something that makes Scientology look ridiculous. The problem is, that’s no longer uncommon knowledge for people who know anything about Scientology.”

    She didn’t get mad, but she brought up a good point, “You know what? Have you ever read the book ‘Have You Lived Before This Life?’ That has all kinds of weird stuff in it it, and that’s not confidential! I don’t understand why that’s out in the open! I was embarrassed when I was reading it.”

    Here’s my deal with the Xenu story. Even if you’re not on the OT levels, from my experience, most Scientologists are pretty open about their beliefs in past lives in sci-fi civilizations in other galaxies. I learned that pretty quickly from the very beginning. At this point, considering the cat is out of the bag, I think it’s ridiculous to still keep it confidential. If it’s already open knowledge that you believe in past lives in sci-fi galaxies, what’s the point of keeping Xenu a secret?

    I think there’s more worthwhile things to criticize the Church over, such as disconnection, Sea Org labor, and how much services cost.

    Interestingly, I was e-mailing one Scientologist who is probably an OT VII or VIII, and we were talking about atheism and the Bible, and I was talking about how New Testament narratives appear to be modeled off of Old Testament narratives. We weren’t even talking about Scientology. And you know what this Scientologist wrote to me? He wrote, “Mythology isn’t inherently true or false unless you insist on taking it literally, which is pretty simpleminded. Even Scientology contains elements of mythology; only the ignorant believe it could or should be any other way. The beauty of that mythology is that when you work within its structure, wonderful things will predictably occur–and it doesn’t make the faintest difference whether you believe it’s literally true or untrue–meaning true or false in physical “scientific” terms–or applicable on certain levels and inapplicable on others. It’s a technology you’re applying, and humans apparently can’t assimilate higher truths without a mythology.”

    I always wondered how different Scientologists interpreted the Xenu story. Well, this Scientologist apparently thought, “Oh, it’s just a myth, it’s not something that you take as LITERAL history.” Even HE knows that non-Scientologists know all about Xenu.

    • Michael Leonard Tilse

      What you describe seems to me the complex way this scientologist has managed to come to terms with the cognitive dissonance of the OT III story and reality. Justifying it as a workable mythology, so he can keep his view of reality intact while still embracing scientology and hubbard’s garbage.

      When I was a scientologist, something like OT III would have been a KSW issue. OT III is in hubbard’s own handwriting BECAUSE it was so unbelievable and yet it was presented as the cold-blooded facts.

      • DodoTheLaser

        Agreed, Michael. Also, Xenu deserves a second chance, even by scientology justice standards.

        I mean the guy was trapped in some mountain electronically by the eternal batteries, thanks to the loyal lieutenants, for a very long time. May be he is totally cool now and wants to make some amends for his nefarious deeds. I say bunch of OT 8’s confront poor bastard and let him do A-E steps.

        • Nibs Said Better Than 90%

          “Maybe he is totally cool now . . .” You crack me up in a major way, Dodo

    • Jimmy3

      How do you justify OT3 level and up, even if it’s to be taken allegorically? Basically, LRH says you have all these “Body Thetans” and you need to get rid of them to be happy. Okay, I’ll play along with not taking that literally. Now you can rid yourself of these figurative BTs, or spirits, or whatever. You’ve completed OT3, and it wasn’t that long ago that you were considered “clear”! Impressive!

      But wait.. You still have BTs. OT3 was wrong and incomplete. Hey,.there are 5 more levels dedicated to finding and banishing the Body Thetans you missed. You didn’t get them all, and we need more money from you and we’re going to ask you a series of repetitive questions to help you find them all. Afterwards, you’ll be clear and an Operating Thetan like we promised you’d be after the last dozen or whatever levels. Well… After you pay for the Super Powers and all. You’ll need to do that, too.

      Yes, it’s all allegorical and mythological and figurative. So is currency. It doesn’t exist, right?

      • HollywoodGuy

        Well, he didn’t say if ALL of it was mythological. For all I know, he thinks there’s literal body thetans, but the Xenu incident was a myth. Who knows?

        I suppose you can also use a “technology” that’s all about using healing crystals. Whether or not these crystals have any literal magical powers or not, what matters is that you’re using a technology that produces results, whether you take it literally or symbolically. At least that would probably be less expensive than going up the Bridge to Total Bankruptcy.

    • 0tessa

      This sentence: ‘ … and humans apparently can’t assimilate higher truths without a mythology’, says a lot. It is false for one. Also it sounds like a ‘motivator’ (scientologese for ‘my reason to do something’) for his non-belief in Scientology’s mythology. It is the old cognitive dissonance of course. Also, the story, more an incident really, about Xenu is not exactly what I would call a mythology. Just comparing it with Greek or Sumerian mythology makes that clear.
      Furthermore the combination ‘assimilation’ and ‘higher truths’ is suspicious. It fits though with the fact that Scientology uses conditioning and indoctrination as a way of ‘teaching’. And ‘higher truths’ can never be learned by coercion, if such higher truths would exist indeed.

  • Michael Leonard Tilse

    “There is a difference between pitching woo, and pitching Woo-woo.”

    • media_lush

      when I ran a few bars back in the day pitchers of “Woo-Woo” were one of our best sellers [vodka, peach schnapps and cranberry juice with a squeeze of lime]

  • Aslansown
    • DodoTheLaser

      Ah, the failed “investment” project that so many scientologists wasted tons of $ for a couple decades ago.

    • Barbara Angel

      Thanks I missed that one, but at least got a chance to flag it. Grrrrrrrrr these days anything to do with blubbard and his rubbish turns me rabid.
      P, 271. Hubbard was a paranoid, power hungry, petty
      sadist who paraded his inadequacies through ever more frequent tantrums.
      Revelling in his disciples’ adulation, he spent his last years in seclusion,
      surrounded by sycophants. ( I think this is from Jon Atack’s book, A Piece of Blue Sky)

  • Sydjazz

    Hey at least marc maron is willing to learn. I admire that. Poor giovanni

    • DodoTheLaser

      He is definitely not a maroon.

  • Jenstnick

    Marc Maron isn’t a journalist, he’s a comedian doing interviews, we shouldn’t expect anything hard hitting. At least he’s willing to learn. Until last summer, I knew next to nothing, granted a few clicks later I became a Bunkerite.

    • DodoTheLaser

      Comedians doing interviews get a lot of views and ratings. Something to consider.

    • Scream Nevermore

      J&D can hit hard in its own way.

  • TDA1541A

    Jack Parsons died in 1952, the year of the audio clip.

    • DodoTheLaser

      I guess Jack wasn’t a member of The Third Battalion after all.

      • TDA1541A

        I figured maybe he felt free to insert a shitload of space opera into his “teachings” because Jack Parsons wasn’t around anymore to call him on his BS. I wonder what the month of the lecture was since Parsons died on June 17th I think.

        • DodoTheLaser

          Interesting point, but I think they both were pretty cra-cra.
          Jack just happened to be a legit scientist fantasizing and Ron a legit fantasist scientifing.

          • Nibs Said Better Than 90%

            Very clever, my friend

            • DodoTheLaser

              Thank you. Just my opinion.

            • Nibs Said Better Than 90%

              And an excellent opinion at that

  • Pierrot

    *** RED X +–+ RED X +–+RED X +–+ RED X *** Saturday the 14th of June
    The early bird catches the worms, there are plenty of those in Boston today.
    OBSTRUCT / PREVENT / RED X, these nefarious and fraudulent adverts.

    DON’T route out, BLOW, Get HELP, get OUT. CALL 1-866-XSEAORG

    Ty Baby

  • ArthurApplebee

    I was in Scientology for over 30 years and, if I recall correctly, Hubbard never used the word “alien” to describe any of this. So, Giovanni is probably technically correct.

    • Elar Aitch

      If you look up the definition of alien, it covers ‘extraterrestrial’. Hubbard probably didn’t use the word extra terrestrial either. but he had a lot to say about extraterrestrial activity.

  • It was interesting to me that the definition of Clear (one of many definitions, and, I think, the latest) said it was “a being who no longer has his OWN reactive mind.” As an OT III, I knew what this meant, but I was stunned that not one single person who had not done OT III wondered about it. No one seemed curious why it would be framed in that way: “his own reactive mind.” Whose reactive mind would you have then?

  • valshifter

    Giovanni Ribbisi does not come across to me like a smart gem, since he has not done OT3 he probably dismisses it , and rather do not talk about it, since he is not sure, oh he is gonna be surprised!!!!! when he wakes up, if ever. but the basics mention a lot of stuff about space opera, specially a History of Man. so you have to be really dumb if you don’t figure it out.

    • Gordon Freeman

      Finding out Ribisi was a clam made it difficult to watch him and enjoy his role in saving private ryan. (Likewise I simply refuse to spend money on a project that Tom Cruise is involved with, and I find it irksome that his films appear in my Netflix queue – money I spend on other things is going in to his pocket, and thus, into David Miscavige’s pocket).

  • FOTF2012

    I did not do the OT levels. But by the time I’d done the comm course, it was clearly hinted by and from “OTs” that (a) Earth was a prison planet; (b) there was a Marcab confederation, and that (c) there were “in-between lives” implant stations on Mars, Venus, and on Earth. I never heard of Xenu though until I was out: then I saw the written notes of Hubbard, heard him talk about it on lectures, and so on.

    However, the advance of actual science made mockery of Hubbard’s pseudoscience. Venus turned out to be a hellish place — not the civilized world Hubbard envisioned, complete with freight trains that he dodged “just the other day.”

    Mars likewise turned out not to be like the popular vision of sci-fi when Hubbard was imagining things. It is a cold and oxygen-starved wasteland.

    Hubbard believed that iridium rich layers worldwide “proved” atomic bombs had left their residue, and felt that layers of greenish vitreous material also proved atomic bombing had happened. Now we know there are other causes.

    Hubbard believed that the asteroid belt — a fun zone to explore in 1950s sci-fi, was the residue of a destroyed planet. Now science indicates that the gravitational forces of Jupiter probably prevented a planet from forming in that orbit in the first place.

    Nor is the moon’s cratered face proof of ancient warfare. It simply holds the marks of eons of natural meteor bombardment due to lack of weathering forces to obscure them, as happens on Earth.

    The Van Allen Belt turned out not to be what Hubbard envisioned.

    Hubbard’s concepts of radiation are outlandishly ignorant.

    Hubbard’s supposedly scientific purif (“Purification Rundown) / Narconon sauna are discredited scientifically. For example, there is no evidence that drugs like LSD reside in fatty tissues, and every evidence that they do not. People have suffered permanent liver damage from the purif / Narconon.

    Hubbard’s explanation of the e-meter does not stand up to scientific scrutiny.

    Hubbard’s geology and geography are all wrong. Where he claims volcanoes existed 75 million years ago, many if not all did _not_ exist at that time.

    Hubbard’s explanation of “evolution” in History of Man is so ludicrous that I would not even know what to say about it.

    Hubbard’s idea of traumatic experiences forming chains with a basic incident was something that I thought was a good innovation. It turns out Freud and others had explored the same approach.

    Now, I didn’t know all that when I was involved in Scientology. I did not know what a provably pathological liar and ignorant person Hubbard was on so many topics. I did not know how he had plagiarized so many other thinkers and cobbled together a mosaic he claimed to be the sole source of. He was a bricoleur, as one writer put it. Even his mind-twisting definition of space (space is a viewpoint of dimension) came out of the fine arts. Nonetheless, I had been indoctrinated on how dangerous and restimulative (Scientology’s term for stirring up the emotional or other charge from an unresolved engram or incident of pain and unconsciousness) the Wall of Fire (OT III) materials would be.

    So several years ago, when I read the OT III materials online, I actually still had some irrational fear go through my mind. What if I did get sick? (I did not.) It was a little like a superstition. How many of us still knock on wood, or avoid walking under a ladder, or have some part of our mind cringe when a black cat goes across our path? Our human minds are so susceptible to suggestion.

    So when I read the OT III materials, I had some trepidation. Wouldn’t I, as a supposed clear, get really restimulated and sick in reading those materials? Could Hubbard possibly be right, and I would get pneumonia and die in a few days? What BS!

    What I did realize (“cognite on”) was that the OT III story was illogical, implausible, falsifiable by science where it gives checkable details, and so underwhelming that it was laughable. Any high school writing class could have come up with a better story. The names, the scenarios were so … Flash Gordon! This was the great secret????????

    You see, I had been looking for an _awareness_ changer. An actual change in my state of consciousness. Not a new obviously made up — and very unimaginatively so — story that was just some new reshuffling of the same themes that have long dogged the human experience — taxes, space flight, bad administrators, confederations, loyalty vs. betrayal, wars, conspiracies, intrigue, wiping people out, and so on. The OT III story is _trite_. Put a capital T on that. And add S for sophomoric to it and you have the first and last letters of what it amounts to.

    So, despite being “clear,” I did not get sick from the OT III materials. Does that mean Hubbard would eat his words about the materials being dangerous? No. Scientology has a way to wriggle off pretty much every hook. Per Scientology reasoning, I did not get sick for the reason that it was too out gradient for me. What that means is that I did not have enough charge off my case for it to be real — for it to “impinge” on me. Analogy: say there is a gold coin at the center of an onion (don’t worry about how it got there). I peel off the outer layer of the onion and see nothing. Should I conclude there is nothing gold in the center? I keep peeling off layers of onion and then eventually I can start to see gold shining through. Only then can I recognize that what someone told me is true — that there is indeed a gold coin in that onion.

    So that’s Scientology’s out. If you read the OT III materials and got sick, they can say, “See! We told you so.” But if you read them and don’t get sick, it’s just that your case was not handled enough for you to even see it. Heads we win, tails you lose.

    Now, there is a certain logic to all that — to the layers of knowledge of an esoteric cult. So let me play the Devil’s Advocate. Let’s say Scientology / Hubbard _were_ right. Then all the following and more would have happened — but none of them have.

    1. Many clears and OTs as defined by Hubbard would have been created. But there has not been one demonstrated case of such a state of being.
    2. Geology would confirm that volcanoes were where Hubbard said they were 75 million years ago.
    3. Various drugs would have been found to linger on in fatty tissues.
    4. Overdose of niacin would not cause liver damage.
    5. Scientologists would live longer, have less divorce, have better adjusted children, have higher IQs, have few or no psychosomatic illnesses, would be free of arthritis/cancer/etc.
    6. Scientologists would not need to take medicine for seizure disorders.
    7. Life and civilization would have been found on Venus.
    8. Science would have discovered evidence of nuclear explosions around certain volcanoes.
    9. The test showing a body got measurably lighter at the time of death (thetan leaving with mental image pictures) could have been repeated and corroborated.
    10. There would be volumes of rediscovered past lives checked and validated by researchers.
    11. Freed up whole memory would have revitalized technology; there would be faster than light travel.
    12. Hubbard would be shown right when he claimed that light did not always travel the same speed (in a vacuum).
    13. The world would be surging to Scientology’s doors.

    I’ll stop with the baker’s dozen. For anyone who believes in Scientology (as a faith — for it is provably not a science), why have none of the above or many other claims come true?

  • Stephanie Loving

    Can’t Scientologists listen to all of Ron’s lectures? Like the one above … 3rd battalion .. .mars screens … etc?
    They don’t hide his lectures, right? So they believe this crap? OMG. Do they watch NASA live feeds? I believe our 2 Mars rovers haven’t shown any battalions on Mars. 5th Invader Force. Whaaaat? In diametric opposition to 4th Invader Force. “What?!!” again. Just plain nuts … schizophrenic jargon

  • Jeff Packmann

    well tommy davis, mark rinder etc.. they all went on tv and lied about there being nothing about xenu in scientology. they just lie

  • Susan B.

    I just listened to the recording of Hubbard embedded above. He had all of this general and detailed knowledge of these invader forces, intergalactic and interplanetary politics how???????????? Creepy!!! Which is worse and which is most accurate: this guy actually believed this horse pucky as truth or he was such a constructor of a giant sham that he held himself as an expert and know it all of what is definitely fiction and he believed followers would take his word for it that what he spoke of was truth. What a mind fauck!!!!!!

    Wait until Marc Maron gets to the bottom of this and understands the big picture. His mind is going to be blown. He will have discovered a treasure trove of comedy material as well the pile of shite that is the CO$. When he learns of the human tragedies, murders, and human rights abuses he’ll get it out there and talk about it and give it more exposure.