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Jon Atack puts it to Scientologists — did L. Ron Hubbard have the qualities of a leader?

HubbardThinksJon Atack is the author of A Piece of Blue Sky, one of the very best books on L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology. He has a new edition of the book for sale, and on Saturdays he’s helping us sift through the legends, myths, and contested facts about Scientology that tend to get hashed and rehashed in books, articles, and especially on the Internet.

This week, Jon weighs the qualities of Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard, and finds him wanting.

JON: Christians teach the imitation of Christ and Buddhists look to Siddhartha Gautama as their role model. Before I left Scientology, I knew that Hubbard did not embody every virtue. I also knew that we project virtue into our heroes and awfulness into our villains. But, for the first few years of my involvement, I did imagine that Hubbard would be utterly virtuous, as he claimed to be Maitreya or Metteya, the future Buddha, who in one lifetime would lead all of humanity to nirvana. Yet another prophecy that failed.

When Peter Warren gave a talk at Birmingham Org, back in about 1981, I realized that Hubbard fell short of my ideal human being, and was certainly no Buddha. Warren told us about his first encounter with Hubbard, aboard ship. In traditional Sea Org fashion, he was punished on the day he arrived. He was let down over the side of the ship on a plank, attached by two ropes, with no safety harness or, indeed, safety apparatus of any kind.

The hours went by, and Warren slapped more paint onto the hull. Night fell, and he struggled on, in the dark, until a voice boomed out asking what he was doing. Now, I expected my hero, Hubbard, to order Warren brought aboard, lest he tumble unnoticed into the briny deeps, but, in fact, Hubbard simply ordered that the floodlights be put on. I was disappointed, because I believe that compassion is the primary virtue, and there was none on display here.

ScientologyMythbustingA little over a year later, I hired a high-ranking Sea Org officer, who was on leave, to help in my business. I was shocked when he took my then wife into our tiny office and screamed at her without pause for ten minutes. He accused her of “suppressing” me, of having “evil intentions” and the like, but it was the blistering attack in his voice that scared me. Because I believed not only in Scientology, but in the good reputation of this former Hubbard aide, I did not stop him. It took me three days of careful thinking to realize that there could be no justification for burning a person down to the ground with fury. It was directly and evidently “suppressive” to humiliate anyone in this barbarous way. Because of his high status in the cult, I was apprehensive about tackling my friend, as if he might report me (the shadow of “Ethics” lurks inside every Scientologist). I asked him where the policy was that supported such abusive behaviour.

Rather than berating me, as I half expected, his head sank into his hands and he cried. I had known him for five years, but I had never seen him cry before. He admitted that there was nothing in writing. I undoubtedly cited Hubbard’s “If it isn’t written, it isn’t true,” and asked where he had learned this dehumanising terror tactic. “From Hubbard,” he said. “He does it all the time.”

My heroes are more like the Buddha. My ideal is emotional equilibrium. Rage would not be any part of that ideal. I have never admired it. My then wife, who was experienced and successful, never sold another painting after that “severe reality adjustment.” Up until that time, she had sold about two hundred, so I had little doubt about the inefficacy of the “tech” that had been used.

I met Harvey Haber, soon after I left the cult, in November 1983. He was devoted to Hubbard, but mortified me with his matter of fact stories about Hubbard’s rage. His own first meeting with the Great OT was during filming, when he failed to snap a window shutter to in the barn/studio, at the required moment. Hubbard screamed obscenities at him. Harvey told me this story with fondness bordering on reverence, but I was again dismayed to realize that Hubbard was a creature of rage not reason.

When I found that Hubbard did lose his temper hourly, and that a teenage Messenger might be sent to the RPF labour camp for failing to hand his next lit cigarette to him, I decided that I wanted nothing more to do with any subject created by such an intemperate man. Scientology did not make Hubbard a good man, but instead a despot, a martinet, and a tyrant. Since that time, I have confirmed his daily rages with tens of witnesses. This is perhaps why there was no longer anyone in the Sea Org who could stop David Miscavige, because he is as mean-tempered as Hubbard, and no one had retained enough “self-determinism” to stand up to him. They fell into line, chucked their fellows in the fetid lake, played musical chairs and lived in the Hole, exactly as their commandant ordered. Because they had become followers, which is surely the true intent of the “Tech.”

I joined Scientology with the hope that it would bring me emotional equanimity. If it hadn’t worked on Hubbard, then how on earth could it work on me? The truth is that after nine years of training and auditing — I was a Class II auditor and on OT V when I left — I was far less calm than I had been when I began.

There are many other ways in which Hubbard was not a hero. Gerry Armstrong, who has revealed the extent of Hubbard’s deceptions, despite the serious risk to his own well being, has been pilloried by Free Zoners, who are obsessed with a conspiracy to discredit Hubbard to such an extent that they fail to see the massive contradictions in his autobiographies. It isn’t necessary to go to the Armstrong documents — although some of the most damning have been copyrighted by the cult, by way of authentication — simply look out the various autobiographies analysed in Let’s sell these people A Piece of Blue Sky, and be courageous enough to look out the references.

Hubbard expanded upon his claims at every stage. He pretended to have studied with gurus in India, Tibet and China; headed “expeditions”; qualified as a “nuclear physicist” and had been a war hero. None of these claims is true. All can be rebutted from Hubbard’s own published writings. He expanded his autobiography from year to year, and these autobiographies are in the public record. For instance, with the publication of Buckskin Brigades, Hubbard said the material about the Pikuni Blackfoot people came from someone who had actually met them and related his experiences to Hubbard. By the time he wrote the preface to Mission Into Time, thirty years later, he had become a “blood brother” of the Pikuni at the age of four. As Hubbard said, “the road to truth” must be trod with “true steps.” He also said “honesty is sanity.” Judged by his own criterion, he was a mad as a loon.

As I have often pointed out, Hubbard was a self-confessed multiple drug abuser. He recommended amphetamines frequently in early lectures (benzedrine has not been censored out of Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health yet, either). He admitted addiction to phenobarbital, and faked a prescription for more of this powerful hypnotic drug, 20 years after he was first prescribed this powerful hypnotic for his “war wounds” (an ulcer, as he admitted in a published 1940s interview). He drank heavily, according to several close associates, and chain-smoked 120 cigarettes a day, complaining to the Messengers that he could not give up the habit.

As to the “second dynamic,” Hubbard abandoned the children of his first marriage, when Nibs was eight and Katy six. He paid no more toward their support, even when receiving full Navy pay. He abandoned his second wife, and abducted their year-old daughter, keeping her for three months, until his second wife withdrew her allegations of mistreatment and torture and signed a waiver. Twenty years later, Hubbard wrote to his daughter, Alexis — to whom Science of Survival was originally dedicated — and denied paternity. Again, he paid nothing toward her support, until a pay off was made, after his death.

The fate of his third family is similarly awful. Quentin killed himself, despite the benefits of the full Scientology Bridge. He was a Class XII auditor and as full an OT as it was possible to be. Diana has certainly not had a happy career, unable to realize her talents as a musician. Suzette and Arthur seem to have withdrawn from Scientology. Whichever way, Hubbard spent little time with his children and a great deal of time on vacation in exotic climes.

As a teenager, I spent a couple of days in a Zen monastery, and the Abbot there advised me not to join any group where the least member had nothing that I wanted. I’m sure he would have agreed that belonging to a group where the leader has no quality that you want would be a very bad idea indeed.

 
——————–

Kirstie unplugged

When we visited Claudio and Renata Lugli in Italy, they showed us not only the photos of Shelly Miscavige that we’ve been making public here at the Underground Bunker over the last year, but also some fascinating shots of Kirstie Alley. In previous years, the actress was very close to the Lugli family, including the two sons, Tiziano and Flavio. (Only Flavio remains in Scientology, and has disconnected from the rest of the family.)

Last night, Tiziano Lugli made one of the family photos of Kirstie Alley public on Facebook, and we thought you’d want to see it…

 
Kirstie_Alley4

 
The photo (Tiziano says it was taken in 2003) reminds us of something Jason Beghe told us — that he loved Kirstie, who he said was one of his favorite people in Scientology. And from this photo and others owned by the Luglis that we’ve seen, we get the idea that Kirstie is really warm and fun-loving in person.

But it’s a shame that she turns away from people who leave her church.

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on February 22, 2014 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS (We read Scientology’s founding text) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25

UP THE BRIDGE (Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41

GETTING OUR ETHICS IN (Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14

SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING (Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41

PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer

 

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  • Andrew Robertson

    Rather off topic, but here’s a curious thing. The ‘Freewinds’ left Cartagena harbour a short while
    ago, steamed proudly past Isla De Tierra Bomba then turned around after only a
    few miles out at sea and is now returning to port. Perhaps they forgot to unload
    all the copies of ‘The Way to Happiness’ booklet or maybe it was just a
    fishing trip to restock the Sea Org pantry. Such a well maintained vessel is surely unlikely to have suffered any malfunction affecting its seaworthiness.

    Or has the ‘Big Win’ in Georgia affected Scientology’s maritime schedule?

    Andrew

    • Rod Keller

      It could be a short cruise to give people who are not passengers with quarters a taste of the sea.

      • dagobarbz

        The sea tastes like ass. Universally.

        • Mooser

          Watching the inland waters of America die in my lifetime was sooo much fun. Why, we used to boat! Had a Tolley, one of the wood ones. Until I figured out what that stuff in the water is. Oh, isn’t that great, it’s macerated sewage.
          Yes, the sea does taste like ass.

      • WildaBeast

        If they’re giving passengers without quarters a ‘taste of the sea’, they must be throwing them overboard because they haven’t paid up. “Freeloaders! Stowaways! Report to Ethics as soon as you swim ashore!”

    • Espiando

      Sounds like Denise Miscavige’s weekly supply of tootski made its rendezvous with the cigarette boats.

      • dagobarbz

        the one with all the cartons of Kools on it?
        (j/k I know a ‘cigarette boat’ is a type of boat)

      • Sejanus

        I hear he only likes how it smells…not so much that he uses it..lol
        Its about getting it straight up and vertical in the nose.
        Or did they go out to deep enough waters to dump a body?

    • Troy MacGyver SP

      i’m sure that fucking slimy pile of maratime xenu is up to no good. “Well maintained”,and still full of blue asbestos. Like Jason Begahe said it’s not nice,”a dump.” Probably fowled its own prop w/ a corpse they were trying to get rid of. Or some clam’s credit card finally stopped working.

    • Moonshot

      The mostly likely reason is the ship had some whales onboard and the IAS registrars wanted to get them disconnencted from dry land for awhile to do a thorough shake down. The IAS is headquartered on the ship and nowhwere is a Scion more under their thumb thand on the Freewinds.

    • FLUNKwithAnAttitude

      Hello Sir…
      Off topic, but do you know of the singer Lorde, from NZ? Is she ‘queen bee’ of a political movement in New Zealand, or something? Aotearoans? ‘Royals’ is such a great song about being poor… did you know they cut her Grammy speech?
      http://www.morefm.co.nz/Was-Lordes-Acceptance-Speech-at-The-Grammys-Censored/tabid/92/articleID/10607/Default.aspx

      • Heh! Brilliant, isn’t it? snoopman was the toast of the Kiwi blogosphere for about a week after it went viral.

        (I know, I know . . . its strange that New Zealanders still refer to themselves as “Kiwi” but I am pretty sure that Mr Roberston is NOT a small, round, hairy fruit.)

        • Andrew Robertson

          I have heard of ‘Lorde’ but as none of her songs have been released on 78 vinyl have not yet had the pleasure of listening to them.

          It’s baffling that the kiwi was chosen as our national symbol as it’s a nearly blind, nocturnal, timid and flightless creature incapable of defending itself. At least the Americans had the good sense to choose a vulture as their emblem.

          Perhaps we should have used the giant weta, the world’s largest insect. Well maybe not, as it like the kiwi is a harmless and defenseless vegetarian on the verge of extinction.

          It is a cute bug though.

          Andrew

        • FLUNKwithAnAttitude

          It was amazing that it was a good song that had so much meaning behind it.

    • John P.

      I am going to suspect that this was because they only had enough money to buy a ton or two of fuel this month, given the low occupancy rates on cruises. The Freewinds’ ancient diesels probably burn about a ton (300 gallons) of diesel per hour, or about 20 gallons per mile.

      Seriously, it wouldn’t surprise me if this was a test of some major mechanical system that had recently been repaired. Maybe they were looking for leakage around one of the prop seals, or something similar that required them to be under way to test, rather than just testing at the dock (i.e., sewage processing, bilge pumps, etc).

      • Cat Daddy

        Maybe they dumped their waste without processing it before hand wich is mandatory when dumping in Internatinal waters. They do not have the expensive waste processing system that is needed for that.

        • aegerprimo

          When I was on the Freewinds, there was all kinds of stuff dumped into international waters; garbage, sewage, sludge (from the heavy fuel oil diesel), dirty bilge water.

          • valshifter

            I hope somebody records that and presents it to the proper authorities, damaging the planet.

    • valshifter

      Maybe they herd the Mexican drug lord “El chapo” has been captured and they freaked out because their cargo is not really TWTH booklets but something else. hey is all about money no matter what.

  • Espiando

    I have a feeling that we’re going to have more than just anonymous trolls trying to Dead Agent Jon today. This piece is almost a guarantee that we’re going to have Indies show up trying to defend the reputation of Ron, The Gift To Mankind. Theo’s been contributing at Marty’s recently; maybe he’ll make a reappearance. Oracle says that she’s off to get some serious auditing due to mammoth cognitive dissonance, but this one might just draw her in. It’s going to be fun to read what they say. Observer needs to have the Ron Series Shoops on standby.

    Let’s face it, we all know that Hubbard was a walking bag of fetid pus. His works show that clearly. Jon has given us more detailed perspective on what color and odor the pus was. The behavior definitely screams out “tweaker”. How much better would Scientology have turned out if he’d chosen, say, magic mushrooms rather than amphetamines?

    As for Fudgie the Whale, I’m sure that she’s a hoot at parties. I also think that if you get a couple of drinks into Shirley Phelps-Roper, she’d chill a little too. But when they open their mouths about religion, that’s it.

    • Sidney18511

      If I remember correctly, Theo once said on MR blog that he was on his way to becoming a doctor when he dropped out of school to follow the hubs. After being lead down the lane of foolishly F-ing up your life so spectacularly……there is no going back. Not for this dude at least. He permanently resides in lala land riding unicorns and grasping at rainbows.

      • Bob

        I know many, many clams and ex-clams whose budding careers were cut short by taking a left turn onto the road to freedom and changing their goals so they lined up with what the Klam King wanted. And DM is truly a case of “like father like son”.
        I do disagree Sidney. I feel one can “go back” even though he or she may have spent decades trashing their lives in the cause of “Total Freezedom”. It’s never too late to change even if it means we have to admit we were wrong. I am thankful for people like Tony, Tory, Jon, Karen, Mike, Marty, Gerry, Debbie and many others who have spoken out when it was dangerous to do so. It saved my ass from total oblivion.
        Every person who gets out whether publicly or privately makes it that much easier for the next guy or gal. Corporate Sclamatologies days are numbered. I see it first hand every day. More and more members are dying or getting out. Few choices left and all the young fresh meat have no real clue how to stop the ship from sinking.
        I’ve come a long way from when I first came to Tony’s site. And I thought I would ALWAYS be a dedicated clam. The truth will set you free!

        • Eclipse-girl

          I read it as Sid was referring to Theo.

        • toodangerous

          So true, Bob. Take Bruce Hines for example. He dropped out of college joined the S.O. in his early 20’s. He left/escaped the S.O. in his early 50’s. Once out he got a Master’s degree in physics and now works at a university. He changed his life completely. We ex-clams can recover and go on to do something better with our lives too.

          • Bob

            TD, you bet! What we learned was not all bad and I find I can really enjoy and put to good use my experiences I got in Clamville. And I have known and still know wonderful people who have been in and are still in. But it always warms my heart to find people who are out and are having a great time and expanding. So glad to here you are doing well. I know others as well who are leading rich and fulfilling lives now.

            • Mooser

              “What we learned was not all bad and I find I can really enjoy and put to good use my experiences I got in Clamville”

              I’ll have to give it a try.

          • Troy MacGyver SP

            Pat Broker,moved to Europe and became a Dr. I’m sure many suffer from massive cases of PTSD from the mind numbing indoctrination. Sadly, I think many are left,broke,detached from reality and their relative’s. And like an alcoholic it takes a long time to get your reputation back. What always struck me as odd were the ones that got the guts to leave and the find it easy to go back,even if it involves a stay in camp RPF. Like prisoner’s with,”concrete mama syndrome” they find peace in hell as it’s all they’ve ever known.

            • Still_On_Your_Side

              A medical doctor?

            • Troy MacGyver SP

              yeah,or studied to be one in Prague. Those detectives that were paid 35 grand a month followed him from Wyoming to Europe for a decade. Even befriending him at one point to give him a cell phone so dm could spy on his calls. Can’t remember where I saw this. He was a threat to Dm. He probably had him killed in a set up,”accident.” You know how clever sociopaths can be and paranoid,too.

        • Mooser

          “Corporate Sclamatologies days are numbered.”

          There’s no doubt about that! From here on in, the Indies are where it’s at. The Indies will be the ones that finally, independently, integrate Scientology with science!
          The Independent Association of Independently Associated Scientologists will make corporate Scientology nothing but an unpleasant memory.

          • Troy MacGyver SP

            “integrate Scientology with science”, I hope that your being sarcastic.

            • WildaBeast

              I will bet today’s $15.50 at 5 to 1 that he is indeed being sarcastic.

            • Troy MacGyver SP

              I should have known but these interdependant $cion’s scare me,too. They pop out of nowhere!

        • OrangySky

          Wow, Bob, you HAVE come a long way! As I recall back on VV you were defending Hubbard…has your POV of him changed at all?

        • aegerprimo

          It is never too late to change your life. I was studying engineering when I dropped out at 20 years old to join the Sea Org. It’s only been recently in my life I got the guts to go back to school and graduated this past December (summa cum laude) with a degree in surgical nursing. I’m in my late 40’s now.

          Bob, well done on leaving the Co$ and for joining the voices of those who are speaking out about the cult! It’s great to have you here.

          • aquaclara

            Congratulations to you! It is never too late. You should be proud for this.

          • Toni m

            Dear AP congratulations for your change on life and for your nursing career. I been doing direct care for close of 20 years here plus some years in my country. I really enjoy your comments.

          • Bob

            That’s great. Reading about others who have had similar journeys has helped a lot.

        • aquaclara

          I’m grinning as I read this, Bob. Love watching you take all these steps forward, now with such confidence.

          Wishing you continued good luck in your new life. It is never too late.

          • Bob

            Thanks, and same to you.

        • Toni m

          I really like this. I too believe that is never too late to change. Specially now when are too many wanting to help them.

          • Bob

            I agree. Thanks.

    • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

      But imagine how great a leader you have to be WHEN you are a walking bag of fetid pus.

      Here is a cut and paste from amiannoying.com:

      “Why he might be annoying

      He convinced people that Scientology is a real religion.
      He said ‘writing for a penny a word is ridiculous, If a man really wanted to make a million dollars, the best way to do it would be to start his own religion.’
      His religion claims man evolved from mollusks.

      Why he might not be annoying

      He has excellent leadership skills.
      Many lame celebrities believe in his teachings and think they have super powers.”

      I rest my case.

    • Mooser

      “This piece is almost a guarantee that we’re going to have Indies show up trying to defend the reputation of Ron”

      You might be right, but I don’t think so. At the indie blogs I’ve been reading, their attitude towards skeptics is strictly “Fuck ’em if they can’t take a joke!”

      • toodangerous

        “Fuck ’em if they can’t take a joke!”

        Typical scientologist’s thinking.

    • OrangySky

      I feel bad for The Oracle…first, she word-clears the meaning of ‘monotheism’ in a (most likely non-Scientology approved) dictionary; second, she reads Marty himself writing that Hubbard screwed up Scientology….way back in 1950!! Seriously, it must be devastating for her. I wish her well.

  • Eclipse-girl

    Will someone please reply to my next post to safe it.
    just a period is needed.

  • Captain Howdy

    I am appalled by everyone’s behavior in this story.

    • Espiando

      Including Jon’s and his then-wife’s?

      • Captain Howdy

        What kind of man stands by and let’s someone working for him scream at his wife for 10 minutes? A man’s first natural instinct is to protect his wife and children and no amount of supposed “brainwashing” can override that.

        • Eclipse-girl

          It sounds like Jon and his “then – wife” didn’t make it last.
          Perhaps this was one reason?

        • kemist

          I’m afraid brainwashing and social pressure do a lot of truly horrific things to people which are difficult to understand when you’ve never been submitted to them.

          Yesterday I watched a documentary about a family where a father, an uncle, cousins and older brother collaborated in the murder of a 17-year-old girl who dared divorce the man who was routinely raping and beating her. The older brother had attempted to strangle her before under orders by his father and broke down in tears when she confronted him.

          • Captain Howdy

            Less than 5% of the people exposed to Hubbard’s supposedly super duper mind control fell under the sway of it, so whatever “it” was, it statistically wasn’t very effective.

            The people who became hardcore scientologists most likely already had a true believer type personality combined with an already existing magical thinking mindset with an interest and belief in the occult, paranormal and metaphysical.

            • Mooser

              “The people who became hardcore scientologists most likely already had a
              true believer type personality combined with an already existing magical
              thinking mindset with an interest and belief in the occult, paranormal
              and metaphysical.”

              You are headed in a most unpleasant direction, Capt. but I’ve got to let you chart your own course . So, if you are saying they brought those things with them ( a
              true believer type personality combined with an already existing magical
              thinking mindset with an interest and belief in the occult, paranormal
              and metaphysical”
              ) into the cult, do they come back out with them?
              And ask any true believer, and he will tell you he’s a rugged individualist.

            • Captain Howdy

              All i can say is that I’m really disappointed they did away with the downvote because a negative reaction is better than none at all.

            • Mooser

              “I’m really disappointed they did away with the downvote”

              Say wha? Why did you have to tell me that? I thought I was becoming more generally popular. So all those people who would normally down-vote me are out there in the dark, wishing for some other way to get back at me? Jeez, give ’em a down-vote.

            • WildaBeast

              They didn’t do away with my downvote! I have it right here! And just ask Espi if they’ve killed the downvote…

            • Espiando

              They didn’t kill it. They made it totally invisible, which must really piss off my stalker.

            • WildaBeast

              So you can downvote someone and it just doesn’t show up on the screen? What in bloody hell is the point of keeping it at all in that case? *sigh*

          • Mooser

            Very tempted to post “Shop Around” at this point.

        • WildaBeast

          It’s not just a man’s first instinct, Captain. I have it too – and my wife doesn’t like me to give in to it.

          • Mooser

            .” I have it too – and my wife doesn’t like me to give in to it.”

            My wife has made it very plain to me that she is capable of defending the both of us better than I could defend her!

        • Still_On_Your_Side

          Every cult I have ever heard of broke up relationships with this type of behavior. Cult leaders cannot allow divided loyalties.

  • Eclipse-girl
    • Miss Tia

      Morning!

    • Eclipse-girl

      did it work?

    • May_West

      safe

    • Espiando
      • Eclipse-girl

        TY. I may need you later today.

      • Mooser

        “Since no bot’s affecting me, or would dare to,”

        That, sir, is the proper spirit!

    • May_West

      Don’t know what was going on with your previous posts but when I tried to respond it said the thread was not active.

      • Eclipse-girl

        I know what happened. Too many spying eyes.

        • WildaBeast

          What the hell is going on with this? Spying eyes? Whose? Eclipse-girl (or someone less confused than I am), would you be willing to satisfy my raging curiosity and abate my bafflement?

          • Eclipse-girl

            remember when Pierrot couldn’t post a link?

            that is happening to me

            • WildaBeast

              That much I was able to grasp; what I can’t figure out is how and/or why. What’s also weird is that I didn’t see your response hours ago, but that’ll be Disqus acting up for me and not displaying all new comments even when I refresh.

            • Eclipse-girl

              DISCUS is very infuriating

              Who? scientology
              Why? someone thinks that if the links to WWP are prevented maybe not as many links will be flagged.

              So they assigned a bot — a piece of programming – to search for my posts whenever I have a link to WWP and it is flagged instantaneously

              Should any be scared ? Hell NO. We are enturbulating them.

              We outnumber them.
              We are more determined than them
              We will continue

            • WildaBeast

              When we can do more by hand in our free time than they can manage with bots, we’re winning 🙂
              That they’ve bothered setting a bot to flag your posts is a sign that you’ve got them worried – it’s like the honour of 10,000 downvotes all at once.

    • Toni m

      I’ll be back later to do this. Just another question and sorry don’t get mad with me. I’m learning.
      It is recommended that we do four days back posts even they are purple. I’ll do it and I’m happy to do, I just don’t want to do something that is not good anymore, for example; some have dates like 02/10-02/27. On the four back dates what number do I look for. 02/10 or 02/27. You do not have to answer me now I have things to do and I’ll back later. Thanks to you and Pierrot for your hard work.

      • Eclipse-girl

        I use the dates at the start, not the end.

        TY for all your help.

        • Toni m

          Thank you.

    • That works.

  • Sunny Sands

    “..we get the idea that Kirstie is really warm and fun-loving in person.”

    I get a different reaction to that picture.

    • Troy MacGyver SP

      And it start with a C.

    • grundoon

      Looks like she has a bad case of coke nose.

  • cdub

    Oh good times.
    Flunk you laughed start.
    Flunk you laughed start.
    Flunk you laughed start.
    Long hours, little pay, no outside life.
    Eat me. Flunk you laughed.
    Eat me. Flunk you laughed.
    Eat me. Flunk you laughed.
    We had our own stat called Donuts for Training.
    Yes a wasted life indeed.
    Note to the troll mole, countdown from 12.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    Would you buy a used cult from this man?

    • Cat Daddy
      • Panopea Abrupta

        Love it:
        ‘Its not pining for Xenu! ‘Its passed on! This space-cult is no more!
        It has ceased to be! Its expired and gone to meet ‘is maker! ‘Its a
        stiff! Bereft of life, ‘it rests in peace! If the cult hadnt conned so
        much money out of its member itd be pushing up the daisies! ‘Its
        metabolic processes are now history! Its kicked the bucket, Its shuffled
        off ‘is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin’ choir
        invisible!

    • And I don’t rent cars!

      Dear Ronnie,

      I see what you’re doing!

      Even in your
      contrived self-portraits, you don’t have anything original to offer. Put
      away your cameras, your Campbell soup cans, and your sister’s EZ Bake
      oven, you are embarrassing yourself.

      Your,

      Father

      P.S. And stop playing Messiah and Madman. Go outside and do your chores.

      • Panopea Abrupta

        I thought that those were the size of the one that got away?

      • joan nieman

        Excellent.

  • Cat Daddy

    On request by Toni M, a look into Hubbard’s wonderfull persona written by Skip Press:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.religion.scientology/P8pYmFlC-Cw
    Today I read over the website of Celebrity Centre in Hollywood –
    http://www.celebritycentre.org/

    Know why it’s not Celebrity Center? Because that’s the American
    spelling, and the founder of the place was Yvonne Jentzsch, who was
    Australian. Prior to her marriage to Heber Jentzsch, the titular
    President of the “Church” of $cientology, Yvonne was married to Peter
    Gillham, a prominent $cientologist in the early years of the cult and,
    prior to that, Dianetics.

    Who sold John Travolta on $cientology, and was thrilled when he became
    the #1 star in the world because she wanted that “for Ron”? Yvonne.

    Who worked so tirelessly to “clear the planet” that she only got two or
    three hours of sleep a night for years? Yvonne.

    Who supposedly nursed Ron Hubbard back to health after he supposedly
    broke his back while “researching” the hush-hush “OT3 level” of
    $cientology? Yvonne.

    The list goes on and on. Celebrity after celebrity loved Yvonne
    Jentzsch, who could be a Cinderella fairy godmother type of woman.

    Here’s what they didn’t know, most of them.

    Yvonne worked herself to death. She got a brain tumor and was basically
    retired from service. Before that, she was busted off her post as head
    of Celebrity Centre and after some time at “Flag” she was given a token
    “great new idea” called the PR (Public Relations) Org (Organization).
    Her job? With only a couple of staff members, to continue working
    tirelessly to travel all over recruiting new people for the cult.

    What they didn’t count on was her getting sick and dying. Yvonne was
    personally convinced that if $cientology did not “clear the planet”
    (meaning get everyone on Earth into the cult) by a certain time we
    would have a nuclear holocaust. She told me that more than once
    personally.

    Supposedly, she had a choice to have a brain operation and then
    recuperate and go back to work or “drop the body” (die). Supposedly
    (it’s hard to know what to believe when $cientology explains it) she
    chose instead to die and come back as a member of Hubbard’s billion
    year contract “Sea Organization” 21 years later.

    Yvonne always thought that Hubbard would ride in like the cavalry and
    save her with “auditing” ($cientology’s so-called counseling). He
    didn’t do anything, just like he abandoned his own wife, Mary Sue, when
    she went to jail for the “Snow White” government infiltration scheme
    that he engineered.

    In short, the man Yvonne worshipped was the evil, manipulating, cold
    and ruthless using bastard to her that he was to everyone.

    And now, under the “guidance” of his tiny personally-trained successor,
    David Miscavige, the Celebrity Centre has chosen to completely ignore
    the woman who built the place up from nothing and led it through years
    and years of growth.

    That’s $cientology, folks! Eat ’em up, use ’em up, and spit ’em out, if
    not forgetting them completely.

    Unfortunately, culties, some of us have a very long memory, and there’s
    not a damned thing you can do about it.


    Weakness of attitude becomes weakness of character.– Albert Einstein

    • Cat Daddy

      For people who want more “MASS” on this:
      http://www.themortonreport.com/discoveries/stranger/death-by-devotion/
      “It’s funny how people will take lies as gospel and give power to people who have the worst of intentions. It’s gone on for thousands of years, as Cicero pointed out in Roman times:…..”
      http://www.themortonreport.com/assets_c/2011/08/ccla-yvonne-thumb-380×261-5859.jpg

    • Bob

      Cat Daddy, I’m sure at some point we must have crossed path. I did watch that occur to Yvonne even though from a distance. And again it is a case of a wonderful life cut short by believing in a good cause championed by a very flawed founder, whose “road to Freezedom” became littered with dead bodies and shattered lives. For every supposedly HAPPY CLAM that exists today there are 100 people whose lives were lessened or cut short by doggedly following the teachings of the Klam King and now following the lead of “Krusty The Snowjob Man.” I admired Yvonne. She believed in using compassion and love over POLICY.

      • Cat Daddy

        You are saying that you crossed her path I am sure, I am as said just relaying a comment from Skip Press made on Alt Religion. But your reaction calls for a picture of what you paint so vividly with words.
        http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc435/karendelac/YvonneWally.jpg

        • Bob

          Oh, I see. I did know of Skip. Talked to him once or twice. He was a friend of Yvonne’s. That’s Wally Burgess in that picture.
          If you had known Yvonne you would have liked her. When she smiled at you felt genuine warmth.

          • Cat Daddy

            Thank you for your input regarding the picture: Skipp goes into detail in the “morton report” that I posted under this. You can feel his admiration ans appreciation for her and his heartfelt loss by her unfortunate passing. (Hubbard hit on her)
            http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n196/scienowriter/1IntBase5.jpg

            • Bob

              Thanks for the link. Skip is very knowledgeable and was really “there” for the formative days. Wally was a pretty decent guy in my experience with him.

            • Cat Daddy

              Looks like there is still life in him, probably stayed out of DMs way

        • Troy MacGyver SP

          What were you in a past WOG life,Daddio?

          • Cat Daddy

            L Ron Hubbard (briggin’)

            I really don’t know, I “feel” that i am a relatively youngssoul and a Earth spirit. But since you probably ask because of my ürge”to post tidbits and inform you must be leavning to some proffesion.

            Or maybe I was a cat

      • Mooser

        “wonderful life cut short by believing in a good cause”

        I’m sorry, what “good cause” was that? “Clearing the planet”?

    • Toni m

      Thank you CD.

    • Troy MacGyver SP

      I know a great deal about Yvonne,too. I’ll try to find the link. She was married to Herber and came from quite the Australian aristocratic family.She inherited gold plated dish wear but was all,”stolen” after hub sent her on a quick mission. She refused to wear glasses as,”it made the tech look bad.” So wondered around blind as a bat. Also,she was married to Herber;wanna say his second wife. He wasn’t around much when they let her die without treatment. But she was a body dropper and ready to go over and back for clam ass. I think she got her first husband into $citolofy but she left her family including small children to join blubbard in the Sea Arghh. Her first husband worked at St. Hill as an accountant but she left again after he came to join them.

      • Lurkness
        • Troy MacGyver SP

          yes..

          • Cat Daddy

            So L Ron Hubbard hit on her on the ship because her family had nobility status in Wog Socïety

            “In 1953, the Gillham family was living happily in Brisbane,
            with Peter still working for R.G. Groom & Company (located in the
            T&G building at the corner of Albert and Queen Streets, Brisbane).
            That was the year Yvonne’s future was laid out before her, all because
            of one book! She was given Dianetics, The Modern Science of Mental Health
            by her friend Mildred, who had been Yvonne’s assistant director at the
            Ashgrove Kindergarten. Once Yvonne read the book she became very
            excited about Dianetics,
            even though her husband had no interest in it. That is, until one
            evening when Mildred showed up at their home and insisted on going over
            the book with him. After that both Peter and Yvonne formed a group of
            people who practiced Dianetics, in the evening at their home. On May 10, 1954, L. Ron Hubbard (LRH), who was in Arizona at the time, created a corporation, called the Hubbard Association of Scientologists International (HASI), which was a professional organization of auditors[1]. Peter wrote to Hubbard in August of 1954, asking where he could get more training in the subject. By late 1954, auditor training had been set up in Sydney and Melbourne,
            so plans were made for the family to move. But their move had to wait,
            because in November the Gillham family welcomed a daughter, Terri, to
            their family”

    • Betsy

      Amazing post, CD. Wow. Wow. I’m going to the links now. Thanks from me…

  • Sidney18511

    If you look at the pic of “the Krust” you can see that she is wearing a cross earring!! Must of been taken befor she started running her koolaid IV.

    • Eclipse-girl

      or before she got to OT III?

  • Good Fella

    …the shadow of “Ethics” lurks inside every Scientologist… So eloquently put, Jon. And so very true. Probably one of the most pernicious traits Hubbard sold us. So tired of dealing with his case as it pops up like an unwanted zit.

  • Simi Valley

    In the book “Hymn of Asia,” Hubbard did not state outright that he was Metteya, but he kept putting it there as a very loaded, hypnotic question “Am I Metteya?”

    • Cat Daddy
      • Mooser

        Wait a minute, something is nattering at my mind. Isn’t there a German word….

        • Cat Daddy

          Shadefreude ?

    • kemist

      My cousin’s a buddhist monk, and I can assure you he’s the least similar person to Hubbard I know. I’ve never seen him scream at anyone or even be angry at anyone in all the years I’ve known him, even as a child. Monks don’t worship the Buddha, they strive to imitate him. Hubbard certainly didn’t understand this if he wanted to be Metteya.

      If that fat sack of shit Hubbard was Metteya, I’m the Queen of England.

    • Observer

      ..

      • ze moo

        There is another Lron is Buddha painting with Lroon wearing a very Freudian loincloth. It burned my eyes.

      • Snap

        : )

      • WildaBeast

        You can tell it’s Elron because they include the forehead cyst!

    • Yep, true. L Ron Hubbard was pushing his “Messiah Program”. (It was an early draft of that which got Nancy Many into so much trouble.) As well as his “Hymn of Asia”, L Ron Hubbard was also seeking to gently implant the idea of him as a reincarnated Buddha into the consciousness of his followers via imagery.

      • Observer

        GMTA!

      • Cat Daddy
        • Cat Daddy
          • OrangySky

            Okay, now he is full of shit. He’s vamping on some simplistic comparative religion concepts, clearly knowing very little about the history of Christianity or the Hebraic religion. It sounds logical but any real religious scholar will poke a million holes in his thesis.

            • Cat Daddy

              His public wasn’t that well educated on these topics in the 50ties and no Internet

            • OrangySky

              Bingo. And he SOUNDS so authoritative, doesn’t he? “Appeal to authority” – a crucial con man’s concept.

            • Cat Daddy

              That is the commanding voice of the Hypnotist. He could hypnotize a room back in the day to earn himself a buck.
              http://www.lermanet.com/exit/hubbard-the-hypnotist.htm
              “I remember he gave one young man a… what would you call it… In any
              event, the boy was convinced that cupped in his hand, he held a little
              tiny Kangaroo that was hopping around and I remember he came over and
              showed the Kangaroo to me. An ah, one by one Ron was hypnotizing
              everyone in the club.”

        • Betsy

          You know…this inspires a rather unBuddhist reaction in me…it makes me furious that that bastard had the nerve to soil Buddhism’s name by saying it.

        • OrangySky

          This is the only snippet of a Hubbard lecture where he doesn’t say something incredibly far-fetched and vile. Or insane. He actually compliments the religious leaders of the past. He actually says something that makes sense! I have the feeling he MUST be gearing up to say something else…like these dudes failed because they didn’t invent Scientology, perhaps?

          • Cat Daddy

            He starts with making something up because he probably doesn’t know and he was an associative thinker, The word messenger does not come from the word Messiah.

            He made a bit more sence in the 50ties, but parroting the latest thing he heared or red perhaps.

            • OrangySky

              Exactly, Cat Daddy. He has read a Reader’s Digest article on comparative religions and vamps on this in a very convincing but absolutely unfactual way. He was quite good at extemporaneously connecting concepts, however, and sounding authoritative. Very convincing to someone who has never studied these things on their own.
              He was a great storyteller. Not a great writer (in fact, his command of the language sounds clearer in speech than on the page), but just a natural at MAKING SHIT UP.

      • OrangySky

        “(It was an early draft of that which got Nancy Many into so much trouble.)”

        …was that why she was originally RPF’d?

    • Mooser

      Am I Metteya?

      I’m not Metteya! I try to be nice to everybody. I would take an awful lot to make me Metteya. And I hope you’re not Metteme.

      • joan nieman

        Lol!

    • Cat Daddy
      • Betsy

        OMG. I really have to get off for a bit. I feeling like throwing up.

    • Panopea Abrupta

      When really Hubbard was “mad at ya.”

  • N. Graham

    Flick your cigaret Kirstie!
    Reading about Elron’s proclivity towards blistering rage really completes the total despot package. And why, when he left the meat body, the next biggest despot was already emulating the holy rage behavior of LRH and was a natural to fill LRH’s shoes.

    Reading more about LRH today made for an interesting retrospective having just read an oldie but goodie Scientology book on my Nook, The Path to Xenu by Margery Wakefield. It’s about her 12 tortuous years with the cult. Besides the references to the late lamented Cult Awareness Network, which was a valued org by Margery and recommended to the readers of the day, the book is both an excellent read and a horrendous visualization of the day to day insanity of the underlings caught up in the cult web. Although she mentions CAN at least 3 times, the later version only gave in parentheses once the updated story–about Scio suing and stealing CAN’s trademarks and assets when they went bankrupt.

    (Oh well, at least as far as I can tell, Scio isn’t operating CAN anymore. They just sort of ceased to exist after 1996 whenever I tried to find out about what was going on. I called a few times and was put on hold forever.)

    Margery’s story gives the story of Scio from the perspective of a family cut-off because they’re suppressive, and starved Sea Org member running everywhere to clear the planet. Most evident in this book were the Cold War fears that “there wasn’t much time-LRH says we only have seven years to clear the planet before an atomic war”. etc. etc.kind of nonsense. Of course the fear-mongering was constantly updated to explain why the war didn’t happen even though the planet wasn’t totally cleared yet.

    What really pisses off Margery in the end (besides being offloaded by the cult) she says, is knowing LRH must have known he was intentionally screwing up people for his own financial gain, certainly the same type of personality described by Mr. Atack in today’s column.

    What is the most interesting about Margery’s book, which is kind of a “bridge” between the early days of LRH and the days of Davey, is the lack of mention of the Tiny Tyrant Miscaviage. But seeing how f’ed up it was then and comparing that to today with the whole craziness multiplied by the Scientology atrocities of the 2000s, including the Hole–climaxed with the Bohemian Rhapsody musical chairs incident. Add the Ideal Orgs, crush regging, South Park, Tom Cruise craziness, Anonymous, and now the Tony Ortega media circus, and you have a SPECTACULAR motion picture!

    Kickstart anyone?

    Just had the second cup of coffee. Never mind about the movie.

    • RMycroft

      The “new” CAN site is still up, but rotted. For years, all the article links point to Wayback copies. So at some point, they lost the content of the site, did a quick fix, never came back to fix the fix.

    • Captain Howdy

      “The Road To Xenu” is a really good read and It’s available online.

      http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/xenu/

      • Toni m

        Thank you for the link.

    • Betsy

      Thanks for bringing up Marjorie W. I haven’t been reading about CO$ very long, but I found two of her books, Demon Cult and Damaged Lives, very useful and moving. I’ll order Xenu right now. I found Damaged Lives so quickly accessible and catchy that I have left a couple of copies in public places…maybe someone will read and be shocked.

  • OrangySky

    “I decided that I wanted nothing more to do with any subject created by such an intemperate man. Scientology did not make Hubbard a good man, but instead a despot, a martinet, and a tyrant.”

    Good for you, John. And herein lies the dilemma of the indies. They seem to have two possible solutions: 1) Deny, diminish or obfuscate the true facts of Hubbard’s life and character or 2) Admit them but play them down with justifications such as “Churchill was an alcoholic” and “Kennedy was a womanizer,” thus all great leaders have their flaws, but that doesn’t denigrate their good works.

    That #2 involves an assumption that the ‘invention’ of Dianetics/Scientology is a great achievement. I’ll leave them to their opinion on that, which certainly isn’t mine (particularly since we know so much now about how it was actually ‘invented/discovered’ from witnesses at the time.) Reading Marty’s blog of 3/19, it seems that he is now taking the position that Hubbard (despite his TOTAL lack of research or background knowledge in any of the disciplines that the two ‘inventions’ overlap – which I don’t think he wants to delve into) happened upon something that could have been great, had he been willing to share it with the scientific world and take it farther.

    To me, the fact that this was a non-starter for Hubbard BY DEFINITION shows what an asshole he was…metaphorically, he was the conman who accidentally stumbles on a potion that helps SOME people with the sniffles, but instead of taking it to the scientists who could better the formula and help it get distributed to millions, decides to bottle it and sell it as a cure for cancer.

    • Bradley Greenwood

      Kennedy was a “great leader”? How so? He had only one feather in his cap: The Cuban Missile Crisis. Otherwise, he was a dirt-bag like the other Kennedy men. Poor Rose, awash in misogyny. “Womanizer” is a giant understatement. What made him “great” was getting his brains blown out. Tragic death makes a man a good candidate for veneration. Indeed, dying has only increased the momentum of the Hubbard myth.

      • Cat Daddy

        When Prince Bernard of the Netherlands – the founder of the Bilderberg Group and co-founder of the World Wildlife Fund – called Kennedy to ask him if American troops in the artic could stop shooting polar bears for fun he immediately phoned the commandor of that outpost to order them to stop doing that.

        Here his footage of them together. (probably because of Papua New Guenia)

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQRquG74NZQ

        • Captain Howdy

          Hooray for the both of them.

      • Sunny Sands

        My father was a WWII vet, and when Castro aimed those missiles right at us in Florida, my father didn’t think too much of Kennedy’s bravado. Of course, it all turned out OK.

      • dagobarbz

        Nice derail thar bradley

      • Captain Howdy

        Any guy that got to bang Marilyn is ok in my book of rules.

    • Mooser

      “Reading Marty’s blog of 3/19, it seems that he is now taking the
      position that Hubbard (despite his TOTAL lack of research or background
      knowledge in any of the disciplines that the two ‘inventions’ overlap –
      which I don’t think he wants to delve into) happened upon something that
      could have been great, had he been willing to share it with the
      scientific world and take it farther.”

      That was 3/19. His thinking has progressed since then. wait a minute. 3/19/13, or 3/19/14?

      • Mooser

        And c’mon, who could resist? If I was Marty I would sure love to give Davey the impression there is actually something useful, even scientific at the center of Scientology, but Davey doesn’t know what it is.

    • Betsy

      I am baffled by Marty. The falsity of Elron’s claims to “discovery” or “research” or science in general is so obvious…and the failures of the methods so huge, starting with Elron himself, as Jon Atack points out.

      • Cat Daddy

        I think it was an original tought to have a process to remedy where Freud onley offered diagnosis
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oobi4DtbzCc

        • Cat Daddy
          • Betsy

            CD, thanks again. I guess you’re right about the process. I just hate to give that bastard the most minute bit of credit for anything beside narcissistic nastiness.

          • OrangySky

            Actually I believe Jung had experimented with a similar process many years before, eventually rejecting it. (Do not have source for that – can’t recall where I read it!).
            This would certainly be right in character with Hubbard, re-inventing a crooked wheel.

            • Cat Daddy

              And jet, Scientology spawmed Meta-Psychology

              Maybe Jung gave up too quickly

            • OrangySky

              Jung has always appealed to me because he believed that the spiritual aspect of a person should be considered in psychoanalysis, not just when they got toilet-trained (I’m exaggerating, but that’s the gist.) His method of analysis (and dream interpretations) stand up today.

            • Cat Daddy

              Most of our Dutch Psychiatrists are Jungians if not all:
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-Ab3tlpvYA

            • John P.

              You are lucky that they are all Jungians. Many European psychiatrists are Lacanian. I once dated a former supermodel turned Lacanian psychiatrist. Fortunately, that situation fell apart just as I was starting to understand what Lacan’s ideas were all about or I don’t know how I could have possibly looked her in the eyes and told her I would respect her in the morning.

              Lacan is perhaps the only person of prominence that comes anywhere close to Hubbard in his ability to spout random bullshit and get people to believe it. He even eclipses Foucault and Derrida by several orders of magnitude in that regard, but he still falls short of Hubbard in either quantity of bullshit or level of obviously fabricated insanity. The only area where Lacan beat Hubbard hands down is in the average educational level of the people he conned, since most of Lacan’s fans are MD’s.

            • Cat Daddy

              Dutch Psychiatry developed Social Psychiatry and Eugenics was rejected.The father of Dutch Psychiarty was Jacobus Schroeder van der Kolk

              Jacobus Schroeder van der Kolk (1797–1862): His Resistance against Materialism

              http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0278262698909964

              “Schroeder van der Kolk is regarded as the founder of Dutch psychiatry
              and neurology. This paper describes his vitalistic views on the relation
              between body and soul, as formulated by him in a series of lectures.
              These lectures were intended to counteract the materialistic tendencies
              of some of Schroeder van der Kolk’s French and German contemporaries. It
              is argued that Schroeder van der Kolk can be regarded as the transition
              in Holland from the “Naturphilosophie” approach to the modern
              experimental approach in physiology.”

            • grundoon

              “eclipses Foucault and Derrida” is an impressive achievement! I hadn’t heard of Lacan. Now I’ll have to go look.

            • Cat Daddy

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Lacan

              “Lacan often used an algebraic symbology for his concepts: the big Other is designated A (for French Autre) and the little other is designated a (italicized French autre).[36]
              He asserts that an awareness of this distinction is fundamental to
              analytic practice: “the analyst must be imbued with the difference
              between A and a, so he can situate himself in the place of Other, and not the other.”[37] Dylan Evans explains that:

              “1. The little other is the other who is not really other, but a
              reflection and projection of the Ego. He [autre] is simultaneously the
              counterpart and the specular image. The little other is thus entirely
              inscribed in the imaginary order.

              2. The big Other designates radical alterity,
              an other-ness which transcends the illusory otherness of the imaginary
              because it cannot be assimilated through identification. Lacan equates
              this radical alterity with language and the law, and hence the big Other
              is inscribed in the order of the symbolic. Indeed, the big Other is
              the symbolic insofar as it is particularized for each subject. The
              Other is thus both another subject, in his radical alterity and
              unassimilable uniqueness, and also the symbolic order which mediates the
              relationship with that other subject.”[38]”

            • Cat Daddy

              Dutch doctors have forced a dose of political castor oil down the throats of Holland’s Nazi overlords. Furious because the doctors refused to join a Nazi-created Chamber of Physicians,
              the Nazis threatened them with penalties. Thereupon 6,200 Dutch doctors
              shut their offices, went on strike. They told Reich Commissioner Arthur
              Seyss-Inquart that they would have no part of a medical society that
              sponsored “deportation of the insane and sick persons and the
              sterilization of healthy people.”

              Seyss-Inquart stormed, threw hundreds of doctors into jail. For weeks
              there was almost no medical service in The Netherlands. Then the Nazis,
              fearful of epidemics, gave..

              Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar…#ixzz2aKvbDgSv

            • Once_Born

              It has always seemed to me that the major flaw of Psychoanalysis became the major feature of Dianetics – namely that psychoanalytic theory is a ‘just so story’.

              Psychoanalytic theory can explain everything the therapist is told by the patient – and if the patient disagrees with the therapist’s interpretation, he is ‘obviously’ repressing the truth. Psychoanalysis, like a good cult, is intellectually self-sealing.

              Of course, any theoretical system that can explain everything – but only within its own theoretical world – actually explains nothing. It merely provides an intellectual framework that can generate an illusion of insight.

              Certainly, neither psychoanalysis nor Dianetics have made valid predictions, nor shown much explanatory power. Also, whenever the theory is seen to be wrong, it is not rejected but merely elaborated with more abstract ideas that cannot be empirically tested.

              With respect to Freud (who was an excellent writer and formidable intellect) Psychoanalysis is a theoretical dead end, which belongs in the category of pseudo-science.

              Dianetics (plagiarised from psychoanalysis by a lazy writer with a superficial mind) took the greatest flaw of psychoanalysis (it is not possible for the therapist to be wrong) and exploited it to create the cult mindset of Dianetics and Scientology.

  • ze moo

    Thank you exs and others who rubbed shoulders with the Lroon. Eye witness accounts are the best evidence, after video. All you need to know about Hubbtard is how he treated his family. Everybody is disposable in the name of ‘smashing his name into the history books’. I don’t think history is going to remember him in a manner he’d approve of.

    • Mooser

      “Thank you exs and others who rubbed shoulders with the Lroon”

      There it is. L Ron couldn’t have gotten anyplace if there weren’t capable people who were willing to sacrifice themselves for him.

  • BosonStark

    This was a very rousing piece by Jon. It’s pretty hard to be like Jesus, but to be like Ron, first you could start by smoking cigarettes.

    For those who smoked already it was a real blessing, or, I mean “theta.” And of course, it would prevent cancer and protect you from radiation, if Dr. Hubtard had his science right, and when was was he ever wrong?

    Next, assume a title. Sorry, “Commodore” and “Source” are both taken. “Thetan” will have to do until you’ve become a Class XII Inspector General of the RTC Pac Base Sea Org Land-Sailor OT Sales Squadron, or whatever.

    Next, acquire a wife, or two, or three. If you’re gay, kill yourself.

    If any of these things interfere with spending on Scientology or getting others to stop buying into Scientology, stop them immediately.

    • WildaBeast

      Right then, I’ll avoid killing myself for being gay, just so I can spend money on courses!
      Today I have $15.50. Will that buy me OT Powerz?

      • Troy MacGyver SP

        A pack of kools a bic lighter and 1/2 a roll of cheap toilet paper from the freewind community store.

      • Panopea Abrupta

        I have an oiliness table I could sell you.

        • WildaBeast

          For $15.50? Not a bad deal! Especially when I consider how in-demand that thing is here at the Bunker.

  • Anonymous

    Thank you John Atack for another great writeup about your experiences and historical research on Hubbard and Scientology.

    Among the physical items that acted as “bookends” to the perspective I gained after reseaching the true history of the Church of Scientology was a First Edition copy of Hubbard’s “Science of Survival” which is in fact dedicated by Hubbard to his daughter Alexis (the kidnapped one)….and a copy of his Last Will and Testament, in which he specifically withholds anything from his estate to the benefit of that same daughter.

    In the intervening three decades between the authorship of that book and the signing of the will, Hubbard made all sorts of contradictory statements about Alexis. For many years he and the church even denied that he was her true biological father.

    Whatever the truth was, Hubbard wanted no part of it. What Hubbard wanted, as demonstrated by hundreds of anecdotal reports and unarguable historical documents, was an expedient solution to whatever issue was of immediate concern at the moment he was thinking about it.

    Hubbard was a tyrant. a liar and a bully, masquerading as a religous leader.

    The personality that most Scientologists attributed to Hubbard was an counterfeit artifact created by written and taped works that were attributed to Hubbard. Of course, only those works that presented Hubbard in a positive light were in broad release and Miscavige has been furiously editing and revising even those to make them more acceptable to modern society or to remove provably false information.

    The lofty sounding goals and magnanimous attitudes projected by Hubbard’s “outer onion” wrapper of broadly published works are what attracted many to Scientology in the first place. The “ethics” system that was put in place made it harder for people to find out the truth. But once people find out the truth about Hubbard (and his organization) they go through the same torturous process of rebalancing that one goes through after discovering any massive betrayal of their loyalties.

    And as noted by Arnie Lerma, one also realizes one’s own obligation to warn other about the scam of Scientology so they do not have to go through a similar learning experience.

    • Mooser

      “And as noted by Arnie Lerma, one also realizes one’s own obligation to
      warn other about the scam of Scientology so they do not have to go
      through a similar learning experience”

      Or you could just shave.

      • Anonymous

        I’m sure there is either wit or insult in there somewhere but I’m dense this morning. Either way is fine.

    • Betsy

      Wonderful, Anon, as always. By the way…if you see this and have time…what is a “free-zoner?”

      • Panopea Abrupta

        People who use the “tech” of Scientology and Hubbard’s flatulent verbiage outside the Church.
        They promote the bizarre notion that the milk of a diseased cow is good.

      • aegerprimo

        Freezoner aka Indie or Independent Scientologist.

      • grundoon

        Roughly, “freezoners” use Hubbard’s “tech” as a starting point and extend it with some mix of post-Hubbard, faux-Hubbard, uber-Hubbard, retro-Hubbard, or non-Hubbard processes. In contrast, “indies” for the most part adhere strictly to what they consider “standard” Hubbard tech.

      • Anonymous

        The descriptions below of a “free-zoner” are pretty good. The Scientology term of course would be “squirrels” which are people who use some of the tech some of the time but refuse to adhere to the draconian rules of the official church. Its a pretty complex (and tiny) scene and I have no real knowledge of it except what is published on various message boards and other websites.

        In many cases, folks who are newly out of official Scientology but want to continue do auditing or training go to “free-zoners’ to get services. Some stick, but history seems to show that most eventually drift completely away from all forms of Scientology. Hope that helps.

        • Betsy

          As always, very much. Thanks to you and all who helped.

    • John P.

      One word in your post marks the difference between Hubbard and a true leader: “expedient.”

      Hubbard was incapable of doing anything other than reacting to anything that didn’t go according to plan. His attention span was short enough that he was incapable of fixing anything complicated on his own, or doing anything more than berating subordinates to “make it go right,” since he couldn’t manage on his own to train or otherwise empower those who worked for him.

      Apparently, Hubbard was also quite brittle — even the smallest setbacks left him emotionally shattered and unable to cope, triggering him to fly off in fits of rage. Most real leaders have a very clear idea of how to craft long-term solutions to current problems, so that it’s easier to accomplish similar things in the future. In other words, if there’s a quality problem with something you’re doing, they solve the ultimate cause rather than just slapping a band-aid on things. And leaders can get ahead of their own emotions; even if they’re pissed, effective leaders don’t let that dominate their interactions with their underlings.

      Hubbard, and now Miscavige, have proven countless times that they can’t think farther than about five minutes into the future. And that is their undoing. It certainly surfaces in recent court cases, where the strategy is to build massive inconsistencies in whatever the instant court motion is in an attempt to win, even if those inconsistencies come back to haunt them later on in the case. This is one of the key reasons the organization is doomed over the long term — by now, expediency is such an ingrained part of the culture that even if Miscavige disappears tomorrow, whoever takes over next will have many of the same character weaknesses.

      • Panopea Abrupta

        This is especially apparent in the actual Ideal Org strategy.
        His “customer base” is shrinking and shrinking and instead of addressing that, he squeezes the whales.

        The other flagrant sign of the absence of leadership is the ever-present tendency to destroy and alienate competent personnel instead of promoting and nourishing.

        Hubbard seemed incapable of real relationships.
        Miscavige seems incapable.

        This, despite the fanatical loyalty of the subalterns, has led to a perpetual and now accelerating hemorrhaging of quality management. David Mayo and Alan Walters would be good examples.
        There have been dozens over the 65 years.

        • N. Graham

          I think the Ultimate Plan is-every whale gets his own personal Ideal Org!

      • NeverIn

        I this this apparent inability make strategic decisions is really just an indirect symptom of narcissism. Miscavage believes he is the only one who can do anything, so I presume he becomes the bottleneck for every significant project, and this leaves him with only enough time and attention to react to immediate crises. Likewise, he cannot internalize responsibility for anything that goes wrong, so he must constantly lash out at his subordinates, ensuring they spend all their time fighting his fires too. There’s no room left for strategic planning and analysis, even if he were emotionally mature and disciplined enough to focus on it, let alone delegate it.

      • Anonymous

        Agreed – expediency is the hallmark of bad thinking, bad acting and bad management.

    • Lady Squash

      “Rebalancing”. I like that word. I’ve heard other words used to describe the re-entry process such as “decompressing”. Maybe decompressing comes first, then you have to rebalance. Just thinking out loud here.

  • j238

    So Kristie, overcame drugs, weight, but waves around a cigarette as if that’s cool.

    • WhereIsSHE

      Overcame weight? Wow. You’re generous!
      The woman had some decent plastic surgery, and that’s about it.
      Still has a major food addiction problem.
      Just lies about it, like she lies about disconnection… and Miscavige… and the efficacy of Narconon, etc.

      And who gives a rat’s ass if a couple of people think she was fun to hang with? Like.. what does that have to do with the fact that she’s a nasty bully who shills for Narconon and a money-grubbing cult?!

    • kemist

      Silly.

      Scientologists don’t believe all that wog science about cigarettes and lung cancer, see. Ron told them cigarettes run out radiation or something, so smoking is good for you.

      • Great White Clam

        Smoke is a vitamin according to the Ur-clam.

        Ur-Clam Hubbard

        • Maybe herb… 😉

          • Great White Clam

            I think the Ur-Clam was too emotionally unstable to comfortably smoke dope or be stoned on weed in public. He was more of a speed-freak, a meth-head, an asshole.

            • WildaBeast

              Meth (and speed) make you think you’re acting normal when you’re high in public – but you’re not. Pot can make you think you aren’t acting normal when you’re high in public – but you probably are.

      • It always struck me as a little odd how many Scientologists I knew that smoked – especially in light of how they tried to promote how health-conscious the group was. For the record I smoked from my teenage years up until about 10 years ago so I was guilty as well. Not trying to slag smokers but just something I always found curious.

        Purif sure does nothing for nicotine. 😉

        • Great White Clam

          Yep.
          I smoked non-filter Kools because Ron did.

          One side benefit was that when I’d rip off a pack from Ron’s office, I was like, “hey, this is my brand!”

          • Did you really steal them from his “office”? That’s hilarious!

            • Great White Clam

              I made quite sure to replace them substantially before Thursday 2:00PM.

            • Ha, that’s pretty cool! Did you ever check the desk drawers for bottles of pills?

            • Mooser

              “Did you ever check the desk drawers for bottles of pills?”

              Kindly stay the hell out of my territory! Master-bedroom medicine cabinets are off-limits to anybody except me, by the way. People often keep dangerous drugs there.

            • Great White Clam

              I just wanted a cigarette.

              Clams don’t “do” “drugs”

        • Anonymous

          I remember folks taking a short break from the Purif every 30 minutes or so so they could smoke a cigarette before going back into the sauna for more sweating. It was quite a contradiction in purposes.

          • For the record, I was guilty of that. 🙁

            • Anonymous

              You were hardly alone…it was pretty common.

    • joan nieman

      You may as well condemn me too j238 because I smoke.

      • j238

        I don’t condemn anyone. But if I see you with a cigarette, I may decide to extend a good invitation to someone else.

        Now ask yourself is this a choice or an addiction?

  • Great White Clam

    Scum.

  • Great White Clam

    Krusty.

    I’m uncomfortable with the idea of her hands, her face, her lips, or her anything else even touching me or anyone I know, including pets and wildlife.

    Yuck.

  • marcy

    I will never understand anyone joining some cult that was invented by a crazy man. Kristy is beyond nuts. I get made fun of for following Jesus, who taught us love and forgiveness. and the only thing he ask of us for eternal salvation is to believe in him as our savior…thats it…nothing else…Nothing. Others may say the church ask for tides. God doesn’t. He wants nothing from us, except our love …nothing more, nothing less. So, Christianity is abused by people, NOT God. Time is running out..People wake up. Don’t know what is worse, Scientology or the Vatican/

    • Straight Diet of Kerbango

      Per capita , Scientology. Sheer numbers , vatican especially when you look at preventable HIV cases in Africa.

    • tweeter

      Many cults are based on Christianity. I’m also a recovering Catholic. I now am comfortable with my truth. Religion is absurd,period.

    • Mooser

      Gosh, isn’t it wonderful how Christians say “I follow Jesus” and then makes the most invidious and tendentious remarks about another denomination? And please don’t tell me what “God” wants, Marcy. I am perfectly capable of speaking to Him myself.
      Also, do you have the slightest idea of how much death and destruction and hatred the various Christian denominations have expended towards each other before today’s relative ecumenicism? But please, go ahead, stir up those hatreds again. Jesus and God want you to.

      • Mooser

        Methinks somebody is getting just t teensy bit upset because the new Pope is so cool and attracting so much favorable attention. My God, how does God permit that? Can’t He do something about it, since the Vatican is just as bad as Scientology.

    • Cat Daddy
    • jeff

      The moon asks for tides. Religions ask for tithes.

      • Panopea Abrupta

        Just to tide them over

      • Jimmy Threetimes

        Maybe she belongs to an outdoor Church that has a major grass stain problem. That was my first thought, anyway.

    • Phil McKraken

      Don’t worry too much about the church asking for tides. When they reach high tide they won’t ask no more.

      • Mooser

        Now, now, there is a tide, which, taken at its flood….

    • media_lush

      sheesh!

    • Are you lost? This is the logic-based section of the internet.

  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

    A contrary opinion.

    Well, he certainly didn’t have ALL the qualities of a leaders. But how could he? He was selling poison. He did it through lies, trickery and bullying but ultimately he did it. He also organized an army of soulless mockeries of himself to act as enforcers when he couldn’t be there. He sold his poison from a boat and then sold it while he was on the lam. He did it for thirty years plus and (except for an evening) stayed out of jail. So, I see the answer to the question in the title as, “Yes, he had the qualities of a leader. For that matter, so did Idi Amin”.

    I don’t see how he could have possibly been a compassionate man but that is another question. Selling that nonsense at all excludes him from being compassionate.

    • Panopea Abrupta

      Lord High Ulcerator, Chief of the Lemmings, Most Solemn Vistaril,
      Great Screamer Most Loud,, Bigamist Most Distinguished, the Ever Open Commode Door ,

      A leader ?
      Really?
      A signpost to perdition, perhaps.

    • Mooser

      Ron didn’t need the qualities of a leader. He had others who willingly took the real leadership and executive roles.

    • Straight Diet of Kerbango

      A better question might be, was he wise? This guy is working to operationalize the concept of wisdom for research. John mentions at least two of the criteria, emotional regulation and compassion.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilip_V._Jeste

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        I am trying to imagine a man who spent his adult life on the lam, had three wives, lied so easily that he couldn’t remember the lies, mistreated his own family, had no trusted friends and treated life as a big confidence racket as being a happy man. There wasn’t much of an upside to his life beyond being served coca cola on a silver tray by miniskirted teenagers. Can you imagine even wanting that? I can’t even imagine him as wise or happy.

        • Troy MacGyver SP

          Conmen aren’t wise or leaders just sociopaths. I guess that sadly all we can lear from this is that theres a new sucker born every minute. A little gold and I will give you the secrect. I am the wizard of Oz. A little cash and i’ll teach you the secret hand me your cash and prepare the applause. This is the secret you wanted to hear the secret to spiritual riches infinite. And I fondle his money and spit in his ear. There’s a new sucker born every minute.

        • joan nieman

          Korgo, it does paint an ugly picture of that creep doesn’t it?

  • Great White Clam

    Heh.
    I feel a shoop coming on…

  • . . . By the time he wrote the preface to Mission Into Time, thirty years later, he had become a “blood brother” of the Pikuni at the age of four . . .

    But but but . . . L Ron Hubbard was with the Pikuni!!11!! Just before his fourth birthday, L Ron Hubbard was sent out by the tribe to complete his Vision Quest. The day before his quest began, the great chief of the Pikuni, Dances With Squirrels, led L Ron Hubbard on an arduous, day-long route march into the wilderness. In the evening, the two finally set up camp, cooked some flesh from the wild cougar that LRH had caught earlier in the day, and settled into their sleep. Then, at that darkest point of night which precedes the dawn, Dances With Squirrels suddenly shook LRH awake.

    “Huh, what, what’s up, why you waking me?” LRH asked Dances With Squirrels.

    “Ronnie,” the Chief said, “look up and tell me what you can see.”

    “Ummm . . . well, its a quarter Moon, Venus has long left the horizon but Mars continues to sparkle like a ruby overhead, and there, in the middle, its Ursa Minor and below is Ursa Major, and beneath them, the constellation of Leo being chased by Virgo,” answered LRH, showing the Chief his wonderous ability of obnosis.

    “No, Ronnie,” replied Dances with Squirrels. “Someone has stolen the tent”.

    • Panopea Abrupta

      “cooked some flesh from the wild cougar that LRH had caught earlier in the day,”

      with his bare hands

    • Ms. B. Haven

      You better copyright this tale before it ends up in the next ‘Ron’ encyclopedia.

  • Well so much for the idea of the abuse starting with Miscavige. While he’s certainly a piece of shit in his own right it’s pretty evident that the the church (and especially the Sea Org) nurtures and encourages sociopathic behavior.

    But on the other hand…

    It’s a rough and tumble universe and it takes a tough-as-nails steely persona to navigate out of the trap that is this psych-infested MEST universe. So if that means hot boxing a carton of smokes while surrounding yourself with jailbait assistants and throwing slackers overboard then so be it. Three cheers for the “commodore”!

    Hip-hip hooray!

    Hip-hip hooray!

    Hip-hip hooray!

  • Toni m

    I read the letter that Claudio Tiziano sent to slappy little worm and is very interesting. In there he remember the occasion when dm told him the he, Tiziano, will have the Superman’s powers. We are now OT6 here in the Bunker, by the way were are our diplomas?. I can wait to be OT8. The basket full of ironing clothes that I disappeared last week with my OT6 power appear again. With my future Superman/supergirl power I know they will appear already done. In the meantime I have work to do. See you latter.
    I like so much the Tiziano’s family, sad one of the sons still there, I hope that will change soon and they are all together again.

    • Troy MacGyver SP

      It seems to be having the reciprocal affect on me. My room is cluttered with things I haven’t got done and I can’t remember the last time I touch assisted myself let alone shaved. Help! Should I go take the first two courses,”because they seem so helpful.”Jerry Seinfeld.

      • joan nieman

        The chores that are left undone is because we are all here in the Bunker! I have to start first thing in the morning, for at least two hours or so, It takes me at least that to go through all the comments and videos. After I get through to the end of it, I do my chores extra fast to make up for all the leisure time!

      • Toni m

        I went to a trip last weekend and my kid was driving and I was reading the Bunker using my phone.
        It’s very difficult to read the Bunker in the phone because is to small and with every bump in the road I got lost and needed to start again. My kids said to me. “mom your are really into this website”. I think I am. Yes Sir I am

    • OrangySky

      “The basket full of ironing clothes that I disappeared last week with my OT6 power appear again. With my future Superman/supergirl power I know they will appear already done.”

      No. But you will be able to find all the parking spaces you want.
      And you’ll see rainbows after it rains!

      • Toni m

        That’s good too, parking spaces and rainbows. I can wait to be OT8, or 9 or 12, or 100? because I’m afraid they will keep adding more.

        • WildaBeast

          Well apparently there are unreleased OTIX and OTX, but Davey hasn’t released them yet because even the clams know Elron didn’t write them, and only ‘Source’ can come up with new materials.
          Until they slap an “Elron Reincarnated!” label on some poor kid and attribute Davey’s pale imitation of Elron’s con to him/her, they’re stuck at OTVIII.

          • Toni m

            Good thing we can do it for free here in the Bunker.

  • Ms. B. Haven

    “…I believe that compassion is the primary virtue, and there was none on display here.”

    I don’t know if compassion is the primary virtue, but it is right up there for sure, at least in my view. When I was ‘in’ I don’t recall compassion EVER being mentioned. Probably the closest thing would be sympathy, and if you are or were a scientologist, you know that sympathy is ‘low-toned’.

    Even if Hubbard didn’t display the more virtuous qualities of a leader, what about the abilities that he professed to be able to deliver with the application of the ‘tech’? I have NEVER seen a scientologist with the qualities of a ‘clear’ or ‘OT’. Not even close. I have seen plenty of people with what I would call good, even exemplarily qualities but those qualities weren’t acquired with the ‘tech’. From what I can tell, most people either have these qualities naturally or they get them thru hard work and life lessons (school of hard knocks). There are certainly practices out there that bring about increased levels of compassion in people, but those practices aren’t part of the scientology playbook. They are supposedly into making the ‘able more able’. For anyone who has been ‘in’ that statement is absolutely laughable.

    I give you exhibit A, Mr. Grant Cardone OT VIII, Super Power Completion:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oA74I8xt234

    • Mooser

      ” I have NEVER seen a scientologist with the qualities of a ‘clear’ or ‘OT’. Not even close.”

      Did you look? Did you really, really look close, or did you make up your mind beforehand you weren’t going to find it?.

      • Ms. B. Haven

        Glasses wearing, sick, conniving, bankrupt, stressed out, dysfunctional family life, mean, ill-tempered, slovenly, etc., etc. ‘clears’ & ‘OTs’. Yes, I looked closely, very closely before I finally bailed for good. It is called cognitive dissonance. When you are TOLD all of these sublime qualities are available when you reach these advanced states and when you LOOK and see something completely different, things just don’t add up. I was able to finally break free when I followed a Hubbard policy: LOOK DON”T LISTEN. That will do it for you every time. If I had made up my mind beforehand as you suggest, I would have never walked thru the door, into the cult, in the first place.

        • Mooser

          “If I had made up my mind beforehand as you suggest, I would have never walked thru the door, into the cult, in the first place.”

          Works for me.

      • Troy MacGyver SP
        • Cat Daddy

          *tips hat* much obliged and 3 hip hip hoorays to the music band, They got sued once by the church and hit back in song.

          http://crimjob.tripod.com/

          “You’ve probably heard rumors about the rock group, and you’ve maybe even
          heard about a well known and notorious organized crime syndicate trying
          to silence their music. Now, thanks to the freedom of speech of the
          Internet, the El Queso Allstars and Enturbulator 009 are back — and
          they’re bad and meaner than ever! Oh boy howdy and are they ever!”

          • Troy MacGyver SP

            You turned me onto them. Really enjoy their work, Thanks once again for the history.

        • Cat Daddy

          http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=23466
          Band History:
          Banned history

          Nov. 2000 – El Queso Allstars start posting irreverant songs after
          outrage at $cientology leaders’ attempts to censor the internet.

          Dec. 2001 – Enturbulator 009 breaks off from the Allstars as an all anti-$cientology project.

          Feb., Mar. 2002 – $cientology hires private investigation firm ABI to research Enturbulator 009.

          Mar. 2002 – Banned from MP3.com for controversial topics and
          language as well as numerous complaints from people who were “not
          $cientologists”.

          Oct. 2002 – FBI contacts Queso about fake death threats made against
          $cientologists forged in Queso’s name. The FBI states that the IP
          address of the forgeries came from near Tampa, Fl.

          Oct. 2002 – Banned from Indielaunch for complaints from people who were “not $cientologists”.

          Oct. 2002 – Indielaunch reinstates E009 page after getting angry letters protesting the ban.

          Jan. 2003 – “$cientology Sucks!” is released on CD and distributed free on the net.

  • Great White Clam

    Total freedom?

    • kemist

      Ah, it’s a Mobius bridge. Explains why they’re going “up the bridge” rather than across it like us ordinary wogs.

      • Captain Howdy

        Hubbard was navy obsessed. You have to climb up to get to the bridge on a ship.

        • Jimmy Threetimes

          Wow, so it does make some sort of sense. That’s the first I’ve ever heard that explanation.

          • Captain Howdy

            I’m not a captain for nuthin’

          • joan nieman

            Me too. I kind of knew it was something to do with the ship but never really gave it any thought. All the made up abbreviations for different levels, books and tapes is inane and mind boggling.

        • Sejanus

          Funny how a guy so navy obsessed didn’t have a better record in it.
          A very frustrated failure.

    • Straight Diet of Kerbango

      Did you come up with that? It’s brilliant.

  • Cat Daddy

    Scientology Ethics make Satanism look like daycare for toddlers

  • Jonathan Cummings

    It is a shame that Kirstie is unable to see the cult/pyramid scheme with objective eyes. She has been so vocal with her support of the cult, and such a bitch in condemning the likes of Leah Remini, Jason Beghe and Paul Haggis for coming to their senses and leaving. It pisses me off that she tries to come across as so supportive of the gays (I am a gay BTW), yet her fake religion regards us as less than human. Life many times surprises the shit out of me so maybe one day she will have a moment of clarity and realize she has been conned by the Cult of Scientology and BLOW! We could use her big mouth on our side!

    • Cat Daddy

      Objectively, for a 63 year old woman she does not look to bad, and I think leaving the cult will even shave of a few years of crazy.
      http://iamsupergorge.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/kirstie-alley-716×1024.jpg

      • Great White Clam

        LOL
        for a 63 year off woman…

      • Captain Howdy

        63 year oaf woman?

        • WildaBeast

          I just looked up her Wikipedia page (my wife didn’t believe she was 63, on account of someone lying about her age when she was on Johnny Carson) – but oh my God, the woman married her cousin! Wikipedia says it was a distant cousin but that is such a crock – she was BORN an Alley, and MARRIED an Alley, and I’m sorry but when your cousins have the same last name as you, they’re NOT THAT DISTANT.

          • Cat Daddy

            Maybe the movkeys at her house are actually their offspring.

          • joan nieman

            Ugh!

      • OrangySky

        She looks amazing, actually. Imagine if she actually took care of herself?

        • Cat Daddy

          I think that would soften up her face

          • WildaBeast

            She’s got some loose skin going on there. But she’s been yo-yo dieting for years, if not decades, and extreme weight gain/loss cycle will leave your skin looking too big for your body. At least she hasn’t had so much plastic surgery done that she can’t move her face; that’s one point in her favour in my books.

  • Xique

    To think that Jon listened to his wife take a verbal lashing, and was admittedly afraid himself is kind of heartbreaking. 3 days before he was able to face this creep, after much soul searching. Where did this creep claim he learned this approach, dear ol’ Ron himself. The stories never cease to amaze me, and you are brave to share such a story Jon. I enjoy reading your take on all of this madness. Somehow it’s invaluable to me, having lived through this madness myself.

  • RMycroft

    I hope everyone is having a happy Ragnarok today. No sign of the ice or fire giants here yet.

    http://www.jorvik-viking-festival.co.uk/2013/11/the-world-will-end-in-100-days-ragnarok-the-viking-apocalypse-predicted-for-22-february-2014/

    • Captain Howdy

      I don’t know where you live but the Ice Gods are definitely here where I live.

      That’s a Fire Engine.

      • Qbird

        …..

        • Cat Daddy

          That’s beyond EPIC

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      Step 1: Find a helmet.
      Step 2: Put on the damn helmet.

      http://www.thevikingship.net/wp-content/gallery/wallpaper021210/Helmet.jpg

    • Qbird

      Dear RMycroft,

      Were is Odin?

      Sincerely, Fenrir

      • Observer

        I don’t know about Odin, but I found Jormangandr!

        • Qbird

          perfect Obs – LRH was always lyin’ and cryin’ and runnin’ away from all debts, legalities & responsibilities (his previous 2 families)… but he really became the monster he truly was all those years at Sea. His “research” made for fake military uniforms & positions, conditions & ethics, false promises & hope for the world – his fake religion, space cooties an’ all. He was full of himself, and it was shit.

          It was there he came up with the wonderful idea of the RPF.

          All that time spent on the Ocean made him wound-too-tight mean.

          All that authority, the captain making himself the commodedoor, twisted him up good & complete and he projected all his case onto his true believers.

          A nasty piece of work yes…. a real and for true monster.

      • Captain Howdy

        Get off the road dummy before some evil rancher tries to run you down!

        Is that a wolf or a coyote? I can’t quite make it out.

        • Jimmy Threetimes

          Looks too big to be a coyote.

          • WildaBeast

            Oh, that’s a wolf. Coyotes are a damn sight smaller.

          • Captain Howdy

            “Northern coyotes are typically larger than southern subspecies, with the largest coyotes on record weighing 74.75 pound”

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              Shrug. If I had to guess I’d say it’s a wolf, but it could be either.

        • Qbird

          A beautiful bad ass Wolf. No ranchers up here in this part of the wilderness Capt. I’ve heard tell of coyotes up this way – well, down on the north shore, but the wolves out number them by far.

          • Betsy

            That was another of your great pics? Oh, admiration!

      • Betsy

        Q, the above stuff is so full of awfulness perpetrated by Elron…could you brighten the day with one of your trees or birds? Just for a moment of clarity and perspective?

  • ze moo

    Lron was flexible enough to morph the original Dianetics into $cientology to get tax exemptions (can’t give 30% of the gross to the government). He was flexible enough to add OT levels when income went down because everyone completed the bridge that was never built. He was flexible enough to sign away all his money and property to the ‘chich’ on his deathbed (rigor legalitatis perhaps).

    The only real ‘leadership’ Lroon and his minions ever exhibited was what was needed at the moment to keep the scam working. This is not religion or philosophy or applied learning, it is the 3 card Monty guy keeping the dance up and sneaking away with the days take.

  • Snake Plissken

    Did Hubbard have the qualities of a leader?

    Maybe as a leader of naive and very impressionable adolescences looking for the approval of an adult, but that’s about it.

    His most impressive quality was his ability to consume enough drugs and and alcohol to take out a small village and still function … well sort of function anyway.

    • Cat Daddy
    • kemist

      Not according to his commanding officers in the navy.

      Unless the definition of “leader” we’re using includes the superficial charm that is common to the grandiose sociopaths who are frequently found as heads of sick cults, I don’t think he qualifies as having any of the qualities desirable in any kind of leader.

      • Cat Daddy

        To be a leader you have to have FOLLOWERS

  • Panopea Abrupta

    “I am utterly unable to approach anything like my own competence. My
    last physician informed me that it might be very helpful if I were to be
    examined and and perhaps treated psychiatrically or even by a
    psycho-analyst.”

    – L Ron Hubbard, October 15th 1947

    Pity he wasn’t taken up on his request – we might be having a very different discussion.

    • RMycroft

      He was taken up on his request. Bare-Faced Messiah, p.138:

      To its credit, the VA responded to this dramatic cry for help with commendable speed and arrangements were made for Hubbard to attend Birmingham VA Hospital in Van Nuys for another examination. By this time, his medical records were hopelessly confused as he had given so many different versions of his service career, his injuries and ailments. He took the opportunity of this consultation to add another injury to the record, claiming that he had fallen from a ladder on a ship called the *USS Pennant* in 1942, injuring his back, hip, left knee and right heel.

      I doubt he was serious about wanting help, just more money.

      • Panopea Abrupta

        Agree totally – working his angles since he was short on angels.

  • 0tessa

    Fortunately Hubbard was ‘only’ a leader of an obscure sect, like Savonarola. Imagine what would have happened if he had been a leader of a town (like Calvin) or country (Stalin). But then … he wouldn’t have lasted long.
    All leaders with a strong ideology (also religion is an ideology) end up as tyrants when they get real power.

    • Cat Daddy

      More likely the mental cases USE the ideology as their vehicle to power

    • Espiando

      And when Savonarola was burnt at the stake, so the story goes, one of the richest burghers of Florence turned to a friend and said, “Thank God for that. Now we can carry on with our sodomy again.”

      So let’s burn DM so those of us of that proclivity can do the same.

      • Artoo45

        Wait. We were supposed to stop? Dang . . . I didn’t get that HCOB.

        • WildaBeast

          So tell me, what was dear ol’ Ronnie’s attitude toward those of us of the dykey persuasion? Are we condemned under a blanket ‘no gays’ rule, or are we all right as long as he gets to watch?
          ‘Scuse me, I have to go take a bleach shower and scrub myself with a wire brush now.

          • Espiando

            Well, he did use the term “homosexuals”, so I’m presuming ye of the sisterhood are included. And considering the nature of the abuse taken by Debbie Cook in the Hole, Scientology today believes so.

            • WildaBeast

              Honestly, being told I ought to pop myself is better than the alternative I presented.

        • Great White Clam

          Maybe rather than an HCOB it was a YSCOHB.

      • HillieOnTheBeach

        Not familiar with that quote but even without googling, I’m betting a Medici said it.

    • kemist

      Oh, I think he tried very much to become a leader wherever he could.

      The manipulations and cozying up to power he did in Corfu and Morrocco certainly show that. Those interventions nearly ended up in diplomatic disasters too. IIRC, the people he had approached in Morrocco were in on an attempt at coup d’état and their main contact was executed for treason. Hubbard’s approach ultimately failed because, like pretty much everything he ever attempted in his life that doesn’t involve fraud, it was a spectacular show of arrogant incompetence.

      • OrangySky

        Not to mention South Africa, where he was certain his claim of being the reincarnated Cecil Rhodes would endear him to the ruling class.

  • Cat Daddy
    • HillieOnTheBeach

      Poseur

      • Cat Daddy

        Leader of Poseurs

  • Artoo45

    If I recall correctly, Kirstie is describing her lovely ex-husband Parker Stevenson in this photo . . .

  • Anyone want some J&D about his Loonship lrh?

    From the soundtrack to L. Ron Hubbard’s mammoth novel “Battlefield
    Earth” comes this camp train wreck, which sounds like it was composed and played by a distraught ungulate. I read Hubbard’s 1,000-plus page opus when I was a kid. I vaguely remember there were evil lumbering aliens and a noble earthling. I presume that Hubbard meant this tune to go to the noble earthling.

    • Mooser

      “composed and played by a distraught ungulate.”

      You must have heard last night’s rehearsal.

      • I confess to having you in mind when I read that in the Salon piece.

    • Techie

      The critic is right to laugh at this bit of buffoonery, but it wasn’t funny at all to the Gold crew, some of whom were kept from sleep for five days straight to “get the Music Studio done so Ron can come home and record 10 music albums for the 10 volumes of Mission Earth.” Of course at that time the studio was a year from actual completion, and Ron was still on the run from the law when it finally did get done. Scientology, where the aphorism “no pain no gain” is stretched far beyond the limits and transmutes into “all pain no gain.”

      • Panopea Abrupta

        Laffy Hubbard’s version was “Your pain, my gain.”

  • Scientology’s Idea of Leadership
    (refresh)

    • Mark

      “It seems a shame,” the Walrus said,
      “To play them such a trick,
      After we’ve brought them out so far,
      And made them trot so quick!”
      The Carpenter said nothing but
      “The butter’s spread too thick!”

      “I weep for you,” the Walrus said:
      “I deeply sympathize.”
      With sobs and tears he sorted out
      Those of the largest size,
      Holding his pocket-handkerchief
      Before his streaming eyes.

      “O Oysters,” said the Carpenter,
      “You’ve had a pleasant run!
      Shall we be trotting home again?’
      But answer came there none –
      And this was scarcely odd, because
      They’d eaten every one.

      • stanrogers

        A tragedy that could have been prevented if but one of the oysters had said, “um, could you run that reasoning behind the sea being boiling hot by us once again?”

  • Techie

    Never met Hubbard but I can speak about the phenomenon of rage as expressed by his disciple DM, famous for having invented the descriptive acronym “Severe Reality Adjustment” or SRA. As we know, all the emotions from 2.0 Antagonism on down through Anger etc. are on the succumb side of the scale, symptomatic of a self-destructive person. In other words, such emotions are considered destructive. The higher emotions, starting oddly with Boredom, are considered emotions associated with constructive actions. So why do we hear of Hubbard’s rages, of SRAs by DM and his followers, why do I remember spittle hitting my face from a loud shouting apparent maniac who wanted it done now and who cares if there isn’t any toilet paper? Why does LRH say in the Sea Org training materials that “Wrath is effective” and then go on to mollify it a bit by some mention of “in moderation?” Other than the obvious argument that none of it makes any sense, so why worry, I don’t believe the practitioners of the SRA feel the slightest bit of what they are displaying. There are many stories of LRH turning away from a bombastic outburst to smile and enquire about dinner or some such. These are lying liars that lie, and they are followers of the Father of Lies, so don’t be surprised to hear that they can act out a lie.So what is the point of exploding in someone’s face with an expletive laden incomprehensible but very loud expostulation? Sometimes it works. Sometimes the recipient changes what he is doing, or at least shuts up about any objections. Sometimes you get a nice exploding tomato on tape, like our friend from the BBC, to use as propaganda. Sometimes you just get the satisfaction of seeing someone’s face blanche with fear. It is part of throwing your weight around, showing that you are the top dog and all the other doggies better stay back from the goodies until you’ve had your fill. But really it is the last refuge of a failed leader. You can’t plan out a proper approach to a problem taking into account existing resources and the capabilities of your crew. You don’t understand the difficulties they face and you really don’t care. LRH said that to say it takes a long time to do anything is a lie. So if you said it has to be done in a week, a time frame careful extracted from your own nether fundament, it gets done in a week or else. You don’t know enough about the project to ask a meaningful question or act as an overall liaison between the various units working together. You haven’t ever produced the product being demanded yourself and couldn’t if the hounds of hell were on your trail. All you know is you said it had to be done yesterday, it isn’t, and these pie-faced idiots in front of you are just full of excuses. So you explode in their faces and start threatening penalties. What really happens is the pie-faced idiots start looking for short-cuts, pretenses or ways to blame someone else. Sometimes it “gets done” only to have to be redone in a few weeks. So, what, the pressure is off for now. With any luck the Dear Leader may fly off to South Africa to re-re-re-dedicate a building or something and we’ll have time to really figure it out. Sometimes a poor patsy gets chosen to take the heat. Once a patsy has been chosen, they get the blame for more and more until finally they get off-loaded or RPF’ed. Strangely that doesn’t solve anything. We’ll have to choose another patsy or simply blame the goner for having sabotaged things so badly they are still screwed up after he has been gone a year! What a witch pit! So glad I am out of that now! Not to say you won’t find that in other groups, but the higher levels of Scientology seem to specialize in it. Since the whole subject is a lie based on a lie, and doesn’t work, yet the higher-ups have to pretend even in their own minds that it does, it is not surprising that a bit of insanity creeps in.

    • You find this dysfunctional system wherever you have a malevolent narcissist in charge.

    • Cat Daddy

      The Ravishing Rage of Ron. A paranoid Shizophrenic with to much power for his own good
      http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/miller/interviews/kima.htm

    • “But really it is the last refuge of a failed leader”

      In kindergarten we teach children to ‘use your words’ a.k.a. explain themselves reasonably rather than hit and yell not just to keep them all safe, but because it is the basis for good communication, getting what you need and helping others.

      • ze moo

        Play nice with others and clean up your messes is the basis of civil society.

  • Miss Tia

    taking a break and trying to catch my breath, did some tweeting….

    Jon Atack is right
    Compassion is a virtue
    Hubbard did not have
    @scientology #haiku #virtues #compassion

    (Inspired from last night’s post)

    Denied addiction
    help. Now they’re being denied
    justice in a court.
    @scientology @narconon #haiku #fraud #cult #justicedenied

    Class action suit fail
    Learning lesson for next one
    Justice WILL prevail
    @scientology @narconon #haiku #fraud #cult #TRUTHwins

    Scientology
    Should join up with Westboro
    Baptist. Both hated.
    @scientology @WBCSays #HateGroups #Cults #MyOpinion #EvilEntities

    Game: Musical Chairs
    Bohemian Rhapsody
    niblet laughed and laughed
    @scientology #haiku #niblet #TheHole #musicalchairs #sadisticfuck

    Like a piece of shit
    Stuck on bottom of shoes
    niblet never leaves
    @scientology #haiku #niblet #shit #dicktator #ass #worthless

    No mental illness
    It’s all in your head they say
    Well, that’s partially true
    @scientology @CCHR #haiku #ignorant #mentalillnessISreal

    Sheriff Lee Baca
    Morally corrupt maggot
    Indictment, soon, please?
    @scientology @SheriffLeeBaca @FBILosAngeles #haiku #RetiredStillLiable

    Curing drug addicts
    By making them overdose
    On niacin pills
    @scientology @narconon #haiku #fraud #incompetence #NOTrehab #worthless

    Stuck in a time warp
    Cannot alter L. Ron’s words
    Just changes commas
    @scientology @LRonHubbard #haiku #fraud #cult #worthless

    Copyrighted church
    Cannot see scriptures for free
    It’s just a business
    @scientology @IRSnews #NOTachurch #Nomoretaxexempt #business

    Happy as a clam
    Is what most $cienos would say
    But they’re being steamed
    @scientology #haiku #fraud #cult #deception

    Goal: Community
    Is what most churches strive for
    $cis tear them apart
    @scientology #haiku #haters #destroyers #deceitful #divisive

    Steamed clams with butter
    More fine dining for niblet
    He’s eating his own
    @scientology #haiku #cult #fraud #niblet #destruction

    How much in lawsuits
    Has this ‘church’ cost governments?
    Shows they worship cash
    @scientology #haiku #fraud #frivilouslawsuits #cashlovers

    Church floods legal courts
    To bully, intimidate,
    and to get their way
    @scientology #haiku #lawsuits #fraud #bullies

    Being litigious
    Is not a religious thing
    It’s being an ass
    @scientology #haiku #ass #litigious #NOTaReligion

    What other ‘church’ spends cash
    from members in courts like $ci?
    Westboro Baptist!
    @scientology @WBCSays #haiku #MyOpinion #Asses

    I have lots more in my little ‘haiku’ notebook…but I think my lunch is done! 🙂

    • MrsLurksALot

      Tha art of haiku
      Is not easy to master
      Slow clap and kudos.

      • Miss Tia

        Thank you! 🙂 I have no idea how/why my brain switched to $cientology haiku form, but it appears to be stuck that way, for now, and I’m jotting ’em down as I think of ’em. I don’t even have to count on my fingers now! 🙂

        • MrsLurksALot

          You are welcome! I love haiku. I like to compose them for birthday cards I send to friends/family; I went through a prolific phase, (much like you now!) 3 months or so, of almost thinking in haiku. I carried a little notepad with me to jot down quick lines. I’m sure the vast majority were terrible, LOL. But, they are so much fun to write!

          • Miss Tia

            some in my notebook have a line worth saving or two, then i can rework the others, i just jot ’em down as i think of ’em…..i haven’t really done haiku since like 3rd grade and that was like 35+ years ago so i dunno what in the world is going on in my head (nor do i wish to know! 🙂

        • joan nieman

          Miss Tia, I believe it is just saying a lot in few words and it gets to the point. Easy to relate to in a way.

          • Miss Tia

            thanks….tweets of course are short too and require few words, but yeah, this makes it even shorter…..somewhat more challenging and fun! 😉

  • Truthiwant

    Yep. Really warm and fun loving…

  • Mat Pesch

    When I worked at Gold, my wife at the time was the Script Girl. There was a time when she worked at night with LRH shooting film. She would come home after work and cry herself to sleep. She wouldn’t speak a word about it but I found out that LRH would go nose to nose with her and scream when she was too slow or made a mistake.
    My friend at Gold (Ron Clifford) told me that LRH grabbed him by the shirt front, pushed him against a wall and flicked his cigarette ash down the inside of his shirt. I was told this in confidence and I never mentioned it to another, so as not to get him in trouble for talking about such a thing.
    When I was a member of David Mayo’s Comm Ev, I saw a dispatch from LRH asking that David be spit on, for him. Realize that David had also been LRHs auditor. Miscavige executed the order by gathering some of his goons, they all chewed a big wad of tobacco and they marched out of the room to spit on David.
    There is a certain abusive mind set in the Sea Org that is thought to be the way to WIN. I believe it is a creation of LRH that has been carried on. Rather than drive Scientology’s expansion, it has assured its public rejection and failure.

    • Techie

      Hi Mat. Once when they were looking for footage for a Birthday event they found some film of LRH holding a child by the ankles over the side of the ship. I saw it while I was working in the editing building. Sorta like the Michael Jackson picture with his kid over the hotel room balcony. What a fun-loving insouciant character!

      • OrangySky

        Think that film was destroyed, or does it exist somewhere?

        • Techie

          Oh I am sure it is still in the archives. They would never destroy any footage of LRH, no matter how it makes him look seen in its entirety. Just a nip and tuck here and there and its Ron the fun-loving yachtsman or something.

          • N. Graham

            Think of all the great things there–going back to when Davey helped on the films!

          • Once_Born

            I do hope that, when Scientology finally collapses, it does so like the East German Stazi, “[…] not with a bang but a whimper” – and abandons the archives intact, so that future scholars can piece together what has really been happening all this time.

            • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

              My big wish also!

      • Lady Squash

        If that’s man’s greatest hope, we’re in big trouble! But then we knew that.

    • joan nieman

      Disgusting behavior.

    • Eclipse-girl

      Welcome. we love it when exes share their stories. TY

  • Espiando

    And just so it can’t be hidden:

    https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/taking-down-co-on-craigslist-co-ads-on-craigslist.113779/page-53#post-2423613

    This one’s for E. I caught it before it was inactivated. You don’t take down an Anon with a bot, assclown.

    • Eclipse-girl

      ty

    • Eclipse-girl

      TY

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      done.

    • Panopea Abrupta

      Done.
      Clearing the planet of Scientology, one red x at a time.

  • Arthur is a tremendously talented artist. Very dark subject matter, but technically superb. Search for Arthur Conway Hubbard.

    • Espiando

      His work is like someone on heavy ‘ludes putting Bosch and Munch into a blender, then turning off all of the color. Not my stuff, really.

  • Sejanus

    If it had not been for the amount of damage caused to people over the decades the story of LRH might be interesting with moments of black humour attached. Given the nature of what he heaped upon his followers it becomes a far more tragic tale, not so much due to his mental state and that of a black heart like his Mini Me, but rather he seemed to genuinely enjoy making humans suffer while maintaining he was there to help.

    There is no more sinister and terrible impact on sanity than first giving in to a madman. You cannot reason with them.

    I am reminded of a situation I had this time last year when I discovered someone in the process of ransacking my van. I got in to the front passenger seat while they were in the middle seat trying to steal everything they could.

    When I asked the person what they were doing in my vehicle I was told..”I am not in yer van”. Stunned with disbelief I asked again…what are you doing in my van? Once more the reply..”I am not in yer van”. Instead of wasting my time and trying to reason with someone who clearly was unable to hold with reason, I got out of the van, saw someone on the phone with 911 for me, and proceeded to pull the offender from out of my vehicle.

    Holding the creep on the ground for the police I was reminded about my recent entry into studying the nonsense of Scientology and how LRH and DM have screwed with peoples perceptions of reality. While it is sad on so many levels, one cannot deny or ignore the real damage done as well. So, police arrived, the man was charged and carted off. I was told how shocked the police were at my composure even though the suspect wound up losing some front teeth somehow. A mystery to this day no doubt.

    The point here is while we may say of those poor souls who are misdirected or abused, we have to be willing to step in to stop it. We need to be able to stay calm in the face of what to us seems utter madness. Most of all we need to able to catch them in the act, document and then hold them accountable.

    To those who are in and wondering what to do…evidence and documentation are the keys. There is no better feeling then standing for what is right and true. Jon, Gerry, Tony, Marty, Mike, Claire, Mark, Jenna, Lawrence, John Sweeney and so very many others are doing legwork, are fact finding, are publicizing the wrongs and contradictions and lies.

    Admitting LRH and DM were liars will help restore you.

    YOU ARE NOT ALONE. There is a world of once ins, never ins, concerned spectators, and more who want to help.
    Help us to help you.
    Please do not be afraid.

    • OrangySky

      Great comment.

    • Toni m

      I love it. Thank you Sejanus.

  • Kirstie is a “Warm fun loving person” running a weight loss scam.

    • Great White Clam

      A lot of fat people are “Warm fun loving person”

      • Panopea Abrupta

        She’s not fat – she’s volumetrically challenged.

        • Mooser

          “She’s not fat – she’s volumetrically challenged.”

          Exactly. On her, a big reduction in volume would look good. There is simply too much of her. Enough, nearly, for two of her.

          Maybe she is larger than life. Many people try for that.

    • joan nieman

      Isn’t it amazing? She has bottles of pills and tonics and people buy this crap!

  • Frodis73

    Hi gang! Finally coming out of lurk mode…long time follower of sci…remember reading ARS way back in the old days and I’ve been hooked since. I’m a “never in” but I had a teacher in hs and her daughter got messed up with a cult, it was so bad she hired somebody to kidnap & “reprogram” her daughter. Yikes! She would never fess up which cult it was out of fear of retaliation. I’m dying to know which cult it was. I’m in Cleveland now but grew up near Kent State, OH. There isn’t a lot of scion activities up my way…small group in Parma. This happened in the late 70’s…anyone know if there was a bigger scion movement up my way back then? I haven’t come across anything in my research–then again there is so much to read!!
    Anyway, just wanted to finally say hi and to say how much I love this place…when I need a good laugh to cheer me up I can always count on you guys. However, my hatred for DM is overwhelming at times…he *must* be stopped. I know his days are numbered but they it can’t happen soon enough. I know I wanted to talk/ask about some other things, but I’ll wait til they come up again.

    • Eclipse-girl

      Welcome. always room for more.
      we are all waiting for the final fall of the criminal organzation

      • joan nieman

        Welcome Frodis. I’ll put on a new batch of popcorn.

        • Frodis73

          Thanks for the welcome guys. I have to add that I love all the things that have come out of The Bunker (afaik) like snickersnort & footbullets.

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      Only know of that small “mission” in Parma. Seems like that place is ALWAYS dead, but the guy that runs it does put up craigslist ads.

      • Frodis73

        Yes, I saw that thanks to the Red X gang! I have always wanted to drive by and check it out, glad to hear it’s dead. Are you in my neck of the woods by chance?? If so, cool!

        • Jimmy Threetimes

          Yeah. Near Cleveburg.

    • 3feetback-of-COS

      Welcome. Do you know if his daughter was in college at the time? If so, what college. In the ’70s they got a lot of new members from young idealistic people in college or just out of college. Most were from the East and West coasts, but there were quite a few from the mid-west too.

      • Frodis73

        I want to say Kent State actually, but I really don’t know. There was so much secrecy around the whole thing…she was only open in talking about cults in general and how to avoid them. I wonder if she’s online and would be willing to talk now…this just occurred to me now. I remember everyone would ask is it this or that, etc but she was really scared and by the time I had her for a teacher it was a good 5 yrs or so later…at least.

        • BosonStark

          Kent State, my guess would be Hare Krishna, but possibly Moonies.

    • Captain Howdy

      Scientology was definitely bigger in the 70’s but so were the other cults like the Moonies, Children of God, Hare Krishna and all those baba dumbass cults run by fat Indian assholes. There are numerous possibilities

      • Cat Daddy

        Why are Hare Krishnas bad ? They seem domesticated
        Hare Krishna at Queensday Amsterdam 30th April 2013
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rXQ1ot-kuY

        • Captain Howdy

          Didn’t you know they were satanists?

          • Cat Daddy

            No, just that they are funny and I don’t ever want to join.
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Society_for_Krishna_Consciousness

            • Panopea Abrupta

              Waddya got against a guy owning 24 Rolls Royces ?

            • Cat Daddy

              Seperating children from Parents , Having them work for hours Rampant childabuse

              L Ron Hubbard revisited

              “But she soon found that the ashram was not all it was cracked up to
              be. Stork felt uncomfortable with many aspects of life there, including
              the group sex and partner swapping, as well as deliberate moves to
              fragment families and drive a wedge between husbands and wives, parents
              and children.

              About 87 per cent of residents had a sexually transmitted
              disease and women who became pregnant were told by the Bhagwan to abort
              and sterilise, Stork says. She and her teenage daughter were both
              sterilised.

              “Women would write (to the Bhagwan) saying ‘I’m pregnant.
              what should I do?’ He would always say ‘abort and sterilise’,” she says.

              “He used to speak so lovingly about children, yet behind the
              scenes everybody’s getting sterilised. There were no children born in
              the ashram.”

              Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/world/escaping-the-bhagwan-20090410-a2vp.html#ixzz2u5vbbEmB

            • Panopea Abrupta

              I was joking you.
              I know a great deal about Bag One Bag ’em all, unfortunately.

            • Cat Daddy
            • Troy MacGyver SP

              The rahsnish(sp?) also had a Lou,named Seila,a mean spirited jewish girl from New York. I had a wealthy friend who hung out with them in India. Fascinating stories. The Indian police were very afraid of his black magic. One time Sheila and a few others got arrested for a bizarre coke bottle return scam. He went down and told then he was going to put a curse on them and they let them all out quicker than a snitch turning states evidence. Sheila was the mastermind when she tried to posion the entire town of Antelope, Oregon. US.
              In India those crappy Rolls Royce’s always broke down so he’d have them towed about by large cows. My friend really liked the group sex. He was a higher up and a good friend of Sheila’s and she laughed about how much money they were dragging in. In the first few years he hung out it was fun then it got stranger and stranger.

            • Panopea Abrupta

              Sheila and other women were running around Antelope with uzis at the end.

            • Cat Daddy

              You are full of stories, good to see you bounce of other commenst to put a little meat on the bone

        • Panopea Abrupta
          • Cat Daddy

            Well let me tell you about Catholisism

            They have child abuse down to an art

        • Troy MacGyver SP

          Invite you over for a small veggie dinner, Hide your shoes and bacpack,love bomb you and then comes all night chanting. If you get physical with them and start tearing the place up,you’ll find your shoes.

          • Troy MacGyver SP

            No sleep thing,too.

          • Cat Daddy

            Thanks, I think I would definnatly get physical like that. I am mellow and not violent but when somebody impares my freedom I get like a hound from hell.

            And Cats need meat

      • Frodis73

        Didn’t catch that “baba dumbass cults” first time around. Lmao.

  • I’ve been very busy with stuff in life and have missed it here. So much to catch up on!
    I’m always impressed with how compassionate a person Jon Atack seems to be in his writing.
    I’ve just finished the new edition of Going Clear and finishing The Complex as well (John Duignan). I’m still here and reading, just very busy.

    Looking forward to hearing more foot bullets in the Mosey case, too!

  • Sunny Sands

    The blood mobile was outside of Flag today, next to the tent lot.

    • Mark

      Does this mean that Davy’s practising vampirism again, or that it’s a way for the Sea Org slaves to earn a bit of pocket-money?

      • Sunny Sands

        Blood donations are usually given free. There can be an incentive given, like a coupon for a free sub at Subway or something usually $5-$10 value. But I wouldn’t put it past the scilons to work a paid angle somehow to it.

        • Mark

          All we get in the UK is tea and biscuits.

          • ze moo

            Those who donate at Red Cross Blood Centers get juice or coffee or another liquid and cookies. At college the Red Cross gave coupons for free beers at a nearby bar. Paid ‘donations’ are a rarity outside of large cities.

            • Eclipse-girl

              Usually Red Cross makes sure their vehicles are emblazoned with RED CROSS.

            • Eclipse-girl

              The beer is not a great idea. You are dehydrated after donation.
              You should be drinking water
              If is easy to drink ti excess and have a miserable hangover when you are already dehydrated

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              You also have a lower volume of blood, thus your BAC will be higher.

          • Eclipse-girl

            It depends on the donation center.

        • Great White Clam

          Might be too much risk and liability associated with that angle. What if somebody caught a deadly disease from malnutrition/starving/garbage-eating clam blood?

          • Sunny Sands

            There are sophisticated tests now to rule out disease.

        • Captain Howdy

          Back in my punk days I would donate plasma twice a week for $20 a pop. It helped keep me in pizza.

          • Jimmy Threetimes

            Some days you can see a line extending out the door at those places, and there are people selling pizza right on the side of the building.

      • 3feetback-of-COS

        Was the Slave Org giving or receiving? Staff needs transfusions to keep going?

        • Mark

          Just what I was wondering.

      • Observer

        I’m surprised there’s a drop of blood left in them.

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      They are so very caring and considerate, aren’t they? Always concerned about the well-being of others. (Miscavige is probably selling their plasma for a few extra bucks)

    • Eclipse-girl

      Red Cross? or a private one?

      • Sunny Sands

        I’ve never seen a blood collection bus painted like that one.

        • Eclipse-girl

          Could be a private plasma collection
          Funny they have the word donate pained on the bus.

          • Sunny Sands

            Many years ago, the plasma collection places had a heavy presence in downtown Clearwater, but I haven’t seen one lately. This area is where most of the sea org now get on and off the busses.

            • Eclipse-girl

              their way to earn a few extra dollars?

            • Sunny Sands

              I think it’s entirely possible that sci is profiting from it. “Always worse than you think.”

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              http://www.oneblood.org/

              Can’t pull up what the rewards are; can’t pull anything up for today’s date. However, it’s scheduled in a number of Clearwater places in the next months. Several of the local churches listed as hosts.

              Jesus christ, it would be so like them to be the “host” for a blood drive at this point.

            • Observer

              And, despite the instructions to take it easy for a couple of days, the Sea Org blood donors are no doubt back at it within minutes of finishing their donations. On the other hand, they do get snacks before being sent off the bus, so that’s a plus.

          • ze moo

            Donating whole blood takes about 1/2 hour, plasma collection takes 2 hours or more. The market for blood products is very competitive and very expensive. That doesn’t look like a Red Cross color scheme, but you can’t tell from the pic. I suspect a ‘look what we do for the community’ pr web type story. Even if it is a bleed for pay operation.

      • Gerard Plourde

        The organization is called Oneblood. This history is from their web site-

        “On January 27, 2012 three of Florida’s independent, not-for-profit blood centers, Community Blood Centers of Florida, Inc. (CBCF), Florida’s Blood Centers, Inc. (FBC) and Florida Blood Services, Inc. (FBS) came together in a merger of equals and OneBlood, Inc. was established.”

        Here’s a link –

        http://www.oneblood.org

        • Eclipse-girl

          TY. I am so used to the Red Cross I didn’t realize there were other non profit blood centers around.

          • Mooser

            They are not-for-profit. They still may pay for donations.

    • Espiando

      Haha, Scilons, like that would lure me in for you to destroy me. Little do you know that I can’t donate.

      • Cat Daddy

        You have a spare kidney 😉

    • Great White Clam

      Here’s a clearer image of a similar bus.

      http://www.oneblood.org/resources/page-images/big-red-bus.jpg

    • Mooser

      “Is it possible sci is profiting from sea org blood or plasma donations? “

      More probably Sea Org people trying to get some pocket money. They do pay for blood and plasma.

  • Mark

    ” …there was no longer anyone in the Sea Org who could stop David Miscavige, because he is as mean-tempered as Hubbard…”

    Except Miscavige is still around to commit further depradations. What a pity the question of who’s worse can’t be resolved thus (refresh):

    • Captain Howdy

      Bloody good job, bloke dude.

      • Mark

        Thanks 🙂

        • N. Graham

          Ditto that. Love it.

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      My money is on the Rocky II simultaneous knockout.

      • Captain Howdy

        My money is on COB. He’s already killed Hubbard once, why not a second time?

    • OrangySky

      Excellent!

  • KNMF

    Love Jon Atack.
    Nothing that is both good and lasting comes from Hubbard. I pity the sad folks who’ve opened up their minds to the “tech” and who’ve become hooked on auditing (which was Ron’s intention).

  • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

    Alexa update for Feb. 22: *refresh for images*

    Tony: US rank #16,078 – up 70 from yesterday. (Average rank last 3 months: 15,689)
    Scientology: US rank #43,648 – up 5,490 from yesterday. (Average rank last 3 months: 39,316)

    Difference: 27,570 – 5,420 less than yesterday. (Average difference last 3 months: 23,626)

    This is the biggest climb in one day for Scientology since I started reporting on Oct. 14 2013.

    Clicks from India – 14,6% today.

    • Mark

      Maybe you’ve caught their attention at last 😉

  • Cat Daddy

    Tao Te Ching – Ebook & Audiobook Full

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdLzdWENIfw

  • Jiminy

    “I decided that I wanted nothing more to do with any subject created by such an intemperate man.”

    AMEN. Indies could make good use of Occam’s Razor. There is a simple explanation of what Hubbard created. It’s called crap.

    • Mooser

      Jiminy, you don’t want to use Occam’s razor to cut your own throat! I mean look a very undistinguished man, in virtually no time at all, and with no help, comes up with the answers to everything. Why shouldn’t that be given equal weight with the possibility that he didn’t? Why shouldn’t gnosis be right in front of our nose?

  • The great tragedy of $cientology is that there were so many people on staff who faced Hubbard’s screaming psychosis and ire yet no one took a baseball bat or big pipe wrench to his bloated piggish head. The intimidation of despots is a continuous fascinating study. Maybe the Dwarf will suffer a more just fate that Elwrong, although going crazy screaming at non-existent body thetans, and roasting in hell is pretty bad.

    • Mooser

      Baseball bat? Pipe wrench? Do you have some kind of a problem? How’s about the one word which could completely defeat and destroy both Hubbard, and now Miscavige. The word is “No”. Sure, if you want to be nice about it “Uh, no, I really don’t think so” is nice. A derisive laugh, and barking out “What the f–? Are you out of your fucking mind?” is also very effective when dealing with a guy who is 5’3″.
      Why would a baseball bat or pipe wrench be necessary?

  • deathtoallpoliticians

    greetings, fellow bunkerites! i have taken the time to go through the complaint, even though it is missing its exhibits, and have my next cognition to throw out. the idea behind a 12(b)(6) motion to dismiss is that the claim is so lacking in merit that it does not deserve an answer. along with the usual litany of plaintiff assertions against the co$ such as linking said co$ and narconon, that narconon inflates its success rates, that narconon intentionally concealed its affiliation with the co$, etc., the plaintiff s only filed 3 exhibits, in which 2 of them came from the same testimony of a doctor unrelated to the current narconon lawsuit, to bolster their claims. i did not see the exhibits from the original complaint as they were not included but will list them here for you to review with me:

    (a)(1) dr. louis a. casal’s testimony regarding the inefficacy of the detox program and vitamin regime (from a previous lawsuit. dr. casal is not an expert for plaintiffs in the current narconon action),

    (a)(2) dr. louis a. casal testimony regarding the inflated narconon success rate (from the same testimony as referenced in (a)(1)) and

    (b) email from an unnamed narconon employee to plaintiffs in which said employee admits that there is no scientific basis for narconon’s claimed success rate.

    the plaintiffs included no other exhibits such as course books from the narconon course, testimony from co$ officials regarding the co$ and narconon connection, the actual contract between the victims and narconon, etc. it bothers me that the plaintiffs apparently did not file more evidence/exhibits in their response to the defendant’s motion to dismiss. the plaintiffs had that opportunity and they, seemingly, failed to do so.

    the actual hearing, at least in new england, is done before a single judge. the standard that a judge must consider is whether or not the plaintiffs claims, even if true as stated, are not ones for which the law offers a legal remedy. thus, it is generally very easy for the plaintiff to prevail over the defendants motion to dismiss.

    in the current narconon case, the plaintiffs have filed the following claims (1) fraudulent misrepresentation, (2) breach of contract, (3) unjust enrichment, (4) detrimental reliance, (5) negligence per se, (6) civil rico for theft by deception, (7) civil rico for mail and wire fraud, (8) civil rico for false statements to a government agency, (9) civil rico for credit card fraud and (10) civil rico for identity fraud.

    given the plaintiffs lack of evidence and their heightened burden of proof relative to the fraud claims, i can see claims 1, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 being dismissed. no court will grant you discovery for fraud allegations (and rico claims where said rico claims are based on the underlying, alleged fraud in question) unless you plead them with specificity. specificity varies by jurisdiction but i dare say that (additional) evidence to bolster the plaintiffs assertions would have been of paramount importance to the fraud claims.

    that said, claim 2 was dismissed because, while the court found that there was a valid contract between the victims and narconon, the plaintiffs did not establish a violation of a specific provision of the contract. not sure that i agree with this because, if the court found that a valid contract existed and the plaintiffs plead a breach in their initial pleadings, it is then not up to the judge to decide the merit of said breach. that is a jury question and not the judge.

    claim 3 was dismissed because if there is a valid contract, the plaintiff must seek a breach of contract claim in lieu of an unjust enrichment claim. i see what the court is saying here but it still smells fishy. once again, whether or not an actual breach or unjust enrichment occurred is not the decision of the judge. that is a jury question. so long as the claims have been plead to some degree of adequacy, the fact finding belongs to the jury.

    claim 4 was dismissed because there is no legal claim for unjust enrichment under georgia law. bad mistake plaintiffs counsel. to counter this, the plaintiffs then asked the judge for leave to amend the unjust enrichment claim to a claim for promissory estoppel under rule 15 in what was to be the plaintiffs amended response to the motion to dismiss. however, under the rules, leave under rule 15 was not proper. the plaintiffs had to separately file a motion to leave for amending and not piggyback on to the response to the motion to dismiss under rule 15. i can see what the judge is saying here. the rules are the rules and plaintiffs attorneys did not follow them.

    claim 5 was dismissed because the plaintiffs must show that a statute, ordinance or mandatory regulation that imposes a legal duty for the protection of others has been violated. in order to meet this requirement, the plaintiffs asserted that narconon was operating unlicensed housing programs for drug and alcohol recovery patients in contradiction of existing georgia regulations. however, the court followed the 11th circuits precedent in that the regulations intended for licensing and inspection (of said unlicensed housing programs) do not create a standard of conduct intended to protect individuals that lends itself to a negligence per se claim. ok. the court is just following precedent here.

    so, where do the plaintiffs go from here? they may appeal to the 11 federal circuit of appeals but the standard the plaintiffs must prove is that judge jones’ dismissal was “clearly erroneous”. this is never an easy argument to make. also, right now, the plaintiffs owe the defendants legal costs. further appeal will only increase this tab should the plaintiffs fail again. tough decision.

    thus ends my analysis. i am not fallible and could be wrong on a number of things above. please correct me as necessary. cheers!

    • Eclipse-girl

      Could the plaintiffs file a new suit without the Rico stuff and supply more evidence?

      • deathtoallpoliticians

        had to check on the georgia law but it appears that the plaintiffs here may file again if they choose to do so. dismissal with prejudice is a remedy reserved for “the most flagrant cases” (as cited in yarbrough v. kirkland, 249 ga. app. 523, 524 (2001)). a case may be judged as flagrant so long as it meets one of three prerequisites: (1) cases that involve willfulness, ie willful failure in bad faith or in total disregard of the court’s order, (2) cases that involve the need for the ultimate sanction of dismissal based on circumstances or (3) cases where prejudice exist. i can’t see any of these factors applying here. however, once again, i am very fallible and could be wrong. please correct me as necessary.

  • nottrue

    Thank you Jon Atack.I read A Piece of Blue Sky many years ago and in my opinion it is the best book on hubbard and scientology.I always go to it and read chapters.I got the new edition on Kindle.Its great Thanks

  • iCandy

    Does anyone know if the Diana Hubbard of ESPN is Diana Hubbard, daughter of Elron Hubbard?

    • Captain Howdy

      Ah, no. Diana is at Hemet according to those who would know.

    • Tony Ortega

      Definitely not.

    • Panopea Abrupta

      Wrong hair colour

  • E-girl
    • E-girl

      ..

    • Pierrot

      It is sticking this time.
      We will beat them!

      • Eclipse-girl

        We will.

        • Pierrot

          OK good night now, go well

          • Eclipse-girl

            get some sleep too. Its very late in your time zone.

    • Toni m

      Done.

  • Pierrot

    Hi EG I tried to reply to your post, it came back saying you can not reply to a post that is not active .
    Do you want me to try or are you going to try to beat the beast?

    • Eclipse-girl

      TY for the help. TY for watching. Clearly we are causing some people some headaches

  • Anonymous

    Vallarrr is a horny transexual whos surgery was horribly botched. That is all.

    • deathtoallpoliticians

      wtf?

      • Cat Daddy

        Anon Humor

        • deathtoallpoliticians

          thank you very much, cd. i was wicked confused there.

          • Anonymous

            Vallarrr is a shameless cult apologist resident to Youtube. S/he refuses to even acknowledege his/her gender which is where the joke comes from.

            • deathtoallpoliticians

              sorry about that, anon. i was the one who downvoted you. rest assured, i have removed that and subsequently upvoted you as your post does not warrant said downvote. totally my bad and my apologies, my friend. keep fighting the good fight. cheers!

            • Anonymous

              I was downvoted? LOL, dont worry about it. Downvotes are a badge of honor.

            • Mooser

              I have received information, earlier today, from an impeccable, indubitable source (a commenter here) that down-voting has been de-activated! Yup, the owner of the blog has simply turned that feature off.

              Yes, if you down-vote, you may see something on your screen, but that’s the only place it happens.

              Bye-bye down-vote.

            • Kim

              Sounds good to me!

          • Cat Daddy

            Well in my days on Youtube back in the day Valarrr was one of the “true believers” we Anons had some “discussions with” like Marcotai and Robyonder.

            • Anonymous

              Last I heard, whoever holds the keys to the Val account is still a true believer and thus deserves to be fucked with constantly. Roby was just a troll, probably the same with Marcotai.

              Be sure to ask “hir” what he/she’s gonna do if Miscavige squirrels Xenu out of OT III. He/she will dodge that question for days in a row and still act like he/she won or something.

            • Captain Howdy

              Remember toryluvslrh2?

            • Anonymous

              Yes, a little.

            • Captain Howdy

              He said he was a black business man in L.A and he was incredibly foul mouthed and nasty..but funny to.

            • OrangySky

              Is Miscavige really going to try and kill the Space Opera? You mean, Xenu may be freed from his electronic prison at last?

            • Captain Howdy

              Hmmmm..and what was your YT nom de guerre little girl?

            • Captain Howdy

              I was wondering the other day when you got loopy if you and robyonder were one and the same .

            • Cat Daddy

              I can go perfectly loopy on my own without joning a cult.

    • Captain Howdy

      But we love hir just the same.

      • Anonymous

        Maybe you do. As far as I’m concerned, Val has no other purpose but to fail for my amusement. Fuck Val.

        • Captain Howdy

          I have a begrudging respect for vaL. S/he was always upfront about being a scilon and s/he stood her ground and never backed down even though s/he was vastly outnumbered. Plus she was pretty good at it. Least in the first 2 or 3 years.

          • Anonymous

            I have no respect for Val. While s/he was honest in beginning, or at least whoever had the account then was, whoever has it now pretends to have the memory of a goldfish and deliberately dodges anything within any relevant context. They just pretend to forget anything that was said in a previous post and use endless linguistic nonsense to dodge anything that actually matters. Fuck Val. S/he deserves everything that happens to hir every Thursday.

            • Captain Howdy

              Yea it’s either somebody copypastaing her shit or she lost her mind due to that posting. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

  • MaxSpaceman

    Miscavige is deeply admired, church officials say, not only by the thousands of staffers in the Sea Org, but by millions of Scientology parishioners worldwide. — The St Petersburg Times “Strength in Their Numbers”

    • Eclipse-girl

      Do you think scientology ever had a million active parishioners?

      • Anonymous

        No.

      • Panopea Abrupta

        In one of Laffy Wrong Blubbard’s wet dreams.

        The Imp OT would murder for 40 or 50 thou.

      • MaxSpaceman

        C’mon- you don’t think so either. That 2009 article is their statement. Once the Mission network was destroyed by Miscavige while Ron was still alive, the drawing in of new converts declines.

        • Eclipse-girl

          ^^^^ yes.

      • Captain Howdy

        A 100,000 or so max in the 80’s

        • Eclipse-girl

          Because I like numbers, does anyone have an estimate of how many ever wire in scientology?

          • Mooser

            You like numbers, I like names.

    • deathtoallpoliticians

      i just googled that article and it came from 2009. have you referenced a more recent story that i missed, ms?

      • Eclipse-girl

        Max, like Cat Daddy has tidbits that he just inserts.

      • MaxSpaceman

        2009 it is. I neglected the date.

    • OrangySky

      Again with the “millions.” I hope Ray Jeffrey asks for backup to Jefferson’s claim of that number in his appeals motion.

  • Ruby

    While I never had any personal experience with Hubbard, I can definitely vouch for the everyday experiences of threats and anger coming from “management” seniors. I think the cherch’s technical term for this is “face ripping”, and it was the norm when dealing with, in particular, the Finance Office West US. On a local level, our morning product conferences began with getting the stink eye from our executive director and went downhill from there. Ah…those were the days. 🙂 NOT

  • MaxSpaceman

    God was feeling sardonic the day He created the Universe. So it’s rather up to at least one man every few centuries to pop up and come just as close to making him swallow his laughter as possible. — L. Ron Hubbard, A letter to his wife Polly (October 1938), quoted in “Bare-faced Messiah” (1987), p. 81

    • Cat Daddy

      Well I think he was right

      Creating life and than making it eat itself

  • WildaBeast

    OT but…

    Scientology haikus are addictive, apparently. This is an homage to Miss Tia, which came to me while perusing a chunk of BlackRob’s ‘Thetan in my mirror” page on wwp, in which a number of Scilons are postulating for/describing the perfect 2D they don’t have:

    I got laid at last
    I postulated for it
    Yes it was paid for

    • deathtoallpoliticians

      lrh is me / and through me he’s my thetan / where’s my pink and greys?

    • Panopea Abrupta

      Sex is a four letter word
      In Ron’s game?

      • Mooser

        As the sail-boat Captain always says: “Luff” is just a four-letter word.

    • deathtoallpoliticians

      you’re all lowly wogs / eat the dust of lrh / do your a to e’s

    • deathtoallpoliticians

      yes i masturbate / even though l ron says no / my theta can’t stop

      • WildaBeast

        “Stop all that wanking!”
        The best way to guarantee
        Broken rules and guilt

        • deathtoallpoliticians

          why so entheta / the monkey must be spanked hard / he’s so out ethics

          • WildaBeast

            This one makes me wish
            That I could give you upvotes
            Ten times in a row

            • deathtoallpoliticians

              *curtsy* thank you wildabeast. more to come, my friend.

            • deathtoallpoliticians

              what the heck: flame on lrh / does the carpet match the drapes / there goes my dinner

            • Panopea Abrupta

              Keep Scientology wanking
              RPF for Davey
              Free his slaveys

    • deathtoallpoliticians

      we serve the midget / and in service, his desires / like tom cruise naked

    • Great White Clam

      Posted on NYE, not an haiku, and so triply OT, but WTF? We’re all OT’s on this bus, right?

      A poam whif snarkness sed of LRHiss beingness {snark};

      There is not enoughingness at causingness
      of LRHiss beingness
      to HAVE AN EFFECTingness.
      The commode drone’s isness
      notisness enoughingness OTingness
      reachbackingness from target twoingness
      to justfuckin bitchthetan slappingness
      the dwarfingness
      for totalingly upfucking shittingness.

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      Unsure how to finish this, I’m still working on it:

      YSYSY
      SYSYSYS
      YSYS

      • WildaBeast

        Took me a minute to get that, but when I did, I LOL’ed.

        • richelieu jr

          Y?

          Y not?

    • deathtoallpoliticians

      my needle rock slammed / clearly i am withholding / where are you right hand?

    • deathtoallpoliticians

      yes! the oil table / lubrication for the pain / cob sure does reach deep

    • deathtoallpoliticians

      not on the keyboard / the clusters seep in too deep / run the incidents

    • deathtoallpoliticians

      pretty sea org girl / i would like to take you out / but you’re just thirteen

    • deathtoallpoliticians

      what’s this itchy crotch? / the king crabs have taken hold / thanks so much freewinds

    • deathtoallpoliticians

      not an out 2d! / by two consenting adults / file the damn kr

    • deathtoallpoliticians

      ot all the way! / let’s do my six month sec check / i pay for my rape

    • deathtoallpoliticians

      my thetas horny / and it’s three feet back of me / where to blow my charge?

  • MaxSpaceman

    Benzedrine often helps a case run. — L. Ron Hubbard, “The Intensive Processing Procedure” (1950) [“Run a case” = administer Dianetics or Scientology procedures to someone.]

    • WildaBeast

      Has Davey edited that bit out of the new version? “Give ’em bennies!” somehow doesn’t sound very ecclesiastical…

      • Panopea Abrupta

        Wee Davey is more interested in giving ’em the runs.
        His drug of choice is Caledonian.

        • MaxSpaceman

          Davey is not an original thinker: he is a socio-psychopath. Ergo he follows the designer of his infamy, Lafayette R H.

          • richelieu jr

            Amen.

            Designer . I remember the ’70s too!

        • WildaBeast

          Scotch: tastes awful going down, smells awful coming out, leaves your head pounding
          and you pay through the nose for the privilege.

          Sounds kind of like Scientology.

      • MaxSpaceman

        People attack Scientology, I never forget it, always even the score.
        People attack auditors, or staff, or organizations, or me. I never
        forget until the slate is clear.– L Ron Hubbard, Manual Of Justice (1959)

    • richelieu jr

      It also helps people run..a oudn their houses, vacuuming, straightneing up…

      Amazing what you can do when you don’t sleep.. AND WHAT DO YOU MEAN I’M GRINDING MY JAW?

  • Sydjazz

    She looks totally smashed lol

    • deathtoallpoliticians

      ahhhh. that peruvian marching powder. makes the best of us look like stark raving mad co$ agents. lol

  • Sydjazz

    Has anyone done lrh’s family history?

    • Eclipse-girl

      How do you mean?
      Russel Miller and Jon Atack worked together on The Bare faced Messiah and had the mother’s side traced back through her grandparents.

      His father was on orphan and adopted by the hubbard family.

      If you are talking about Ron’s children, I think people have done that.

  • : )

    • deathtoallpoliticians

      just a quick question, vistaril. according to the manufacturer of vistaril, the medication may be used as an antihistamine or an anti-psychotic. without lrh’s medical records, is it fair to presume it was used for anti-psychotic purposes as versus anti-allergy purposes? from what i have read, lrh had very nasty allergies. the vistaril could have been used to control such (it’s still used today as an antihistamine – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxyzine). i am just playing devil’s advocate but this is a very serious question that has never been answered. what do you think?

      • Espiando

        I take Cymbalta. It can help out with the symptoms of my diabeetus and prevent me from having to undergo some nasty operations later in life (read: amputations). However, it’s a psych drug, and the Scilons believe it’s a psych drug and therefore evil. Same with Vistaril. LRH HAD PSYCH DRUGS IN HIS SYSTEM WHEN HE DIED. PERIOD. FULL STOP.

        • deathtoallpoliticians

          it’s cool, espiando. no need to yell at me. you are preaching to the choir. i was just curious.

          • Espiando

            I’m not yelling at you. I’m yelling at any SciTrolls or Indies who might be lurking. It’s one of the best things to blow their little pea brains all the way to Target Two.

          • MaxSpaceman

            The Tubb was riddled with anxiety the last years of his life. His Doc regularly shot him up with Vistaril.

      • Straight Diet of Kerbango

        Hydroxyzine is currently used as an anxiolytic (usually by ER docs who don’t want to encourage benzo seekers.) I rarely use it as most people don’t tolerate it or refuse it because it is not Xanax. Not a pleasurable drug for most people, but for a few it is. Vets are OK with it sometimes. Also used in dermatology for hives/dermatitis.

        My guess is back in the 50s-60s, they thought it would work as an antipsychotic as it was thought that anticholinergics or antihistimines would be a mechanism to treat psychosis. They don’t.

        Hubbard most likely took it to chill out and sleep.

        • Mooser

          Benzos are the cheapest high in the world. To think that crap like that replaces good old barbiturates. Kids today haven’t got a chance.

          • deathtoallpoliticians

            that is spot on and hilarious, mooser. also, mortifying. but i choose to laugh.

          • Captain Howdy

            I’ll take klonopin over seconal or nembutal any day of the week.

            • WildaBeast

              I’m too young to have ever gotten my hands on barbiturates, but when I think of the benzo drag the next day, and consider that part of the reason benzodiazepines (sp?) came to replace barbiturates was that they were ‘lighter’ in terms of after- and side-effects, I think I’m probably in your camp, Captain.

            • richelieu jr

              Did you know ‘barbiturates’

            • richelieu jr

              I’ve never had Klonopin, Cap’n.. For once, you are ahead of me..
              What’s it like? (

              I laughed, however, at the joke in ‘Silver Linings Playbook’, however., just because I know (as you do) that community born of infliction (self-inflicted or otherwise) and of drug use…

              Speaking of ‘affliction breeding community) there’s quite a lot of ex-Scilons ere.. I wonder if it is like being in a war– You may not like the person, but they are the only on who was there, who understands, who knows what it was REALLY like… You end up bound for life by a horrible circumstance you shared…

              (cue music)
              I actually wrote a song about it (no joke! It’s on the French record), called:
              ‘Channeling Chang and Eng’, which begins

              “Affliction breads community…” (ha!)
              “Freak Show uniformity
              P.T. sees you ore in me
              than I am less in you…”

      • Captain Howdy

        In all honesty I’ve taken hydroxyzine before and it’s a incredibly weak ass sedative. It’s mostly prescribed for rash. Even in ’86 it’s about the last thing they would have given him for DT’s. Unless of course they were trying to give themselves plausible deniability down the road that he was taking anything like valium or librium when died.

      • MaxSpaceman

        In my experience over the last 10 years, Vistaril is prescribed by psychopharmacologists regularly, to consumers of mental health services, who suffer chronic behavioral health disorders, for anxiety.

      • Techie

        Thought I read somewhere that it had to do with his stroke.

        Why anyone should find it suspicious that a 76 year old man with a history of cerebral vascular accident (“stroke”) should have died as a result of one is quite incomprehensible to me.

        Treatment of stroke victims with Vistaril was totally normal in 1986. Hubbard had numerous allergies, so use of an antihistamine (allergy suppressor) that is also a mild sedative surely was good idea.

        RVY’s false sensationalizing of Vistaril (antihistamine and mild sedative) as a “psych drug”, when the common usage of that phrase in Scientology meant powerful mind-altering substances like anti-depressants was either extremely ignorant or highly disingenuous.

        EXSN answer #56Weirdly enough, our family doctor had some Vistaril sample bottles in his drug cabinet (late 60’s) and gave them to me for my leg twitches. So it is the only “psych” drug I have personal experience with. It was not fun at all and I quit after one dose. Took it on a Boy Scout trip, ran away and hid in the woods for a few hours, freaking out the scout leaders.

  • MaxSpaceman

    “. . . according to several close associates, and chain-smoked 120 cigarettes a day, complaining to the Messengers that he could not give up the habit. — Jon Atack

    “Not smoking enough will cause lung cancer! If anybody is getting a cancerous activity in the lung, the probabilities are that it’s radiation dosage coupled with the fact that he smokes. And what it does is start to run out the radiation dosage, don’t you see.” — L Ron Hubbard, Saint Hill Special Briefing Course 35 (19 July 1961)

    • WildaBeast

      Okay, I smoke. Each cigarette takes me ~7mins to smoke fully. I smoke maybe half a pack a day on average. The point is that 10 cigarettes is a little over an hour of constant smoking. There are 24 hours in a day. So if you smoked constantly around the clock you could kill just over a carton a day (200 cigarettes to a carton, call it 220 or eleven packs). But you have to sleep. And eat. I would say, and poop, but Elron probably smoked in the crapper.
      So, subtract 8 hours for sleepytimes. That’s 70-75 cigarettes from ~220; call it 145 remaining. Then subtract another hour a day to eat (a very conservative estimate); call that another 9 cigarettes.
      If Elron smoked literally at every possible moment that he was not sleeping or eating, he would smoke ~136 cigarettes/day according to my math.
      Now my calculations are pretty rough and ready. But what this basically comes down to is Jesus Christ how can anyone smoke that much?!?

      • richelieu jr

        He’d have two or three going at once, and not finish them before the next was off–
        Remember, someone had to be right there with one, to light it, and often lighting it before it touched his thin yet bulbous lips…

        • WildaBeast

          Who needs oxygen in a room when you can have delicious, healthful cigarette smoke?

  • Sandy

    Terribly off topic…
    Capt. Howdy. Dr Pol is currently on Nat GO. DirecTV 283. Sorry for the distraction…

    • Captain Howdy

      Thanks for the heads up Sandy..I currently have the PBS Honey Badger doc cued up to watch, after that I will check out Dr Pol.

      • Elen

        I loved that honey badger doc! Enjoy!

  • Espiando

    Since it needs doing
    And since they think their bots work
    Fuck you, Scilon trolls

    https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/taking-down-co-on-craigslist-co-ads-on-craigslist.113779/page-53#post-2423613

    • Eclipse-girl

      for safety

    • Toni m

      Just did it. It’s hard to do the purples again but if it needs to be done so bet it.

    • Kim

      I read somewhere you were an SP. Are there forums or such for me to learn more about that?

      • Jimmy Threetimes

        The comments section on Tony Ortega’s blog is a good start.

        • Kim

          I meant sociopath, not suppressive person

          • Jimmy Threetimes

            Ohh. Then you’re probably looking for the comments section on Tony Ortega’s blog.

            • Kim

              Super helpful, thanks

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              If you were inquiring honestly, then please accept my apology.

            • Kim

              No big deal, I was looking for a response from Espiando about sociopathy, I had a question for him

            • Espiando

              I have sociopathic tendencies which come out when I need them to, and a very active stream of asocialism (for instance, my admittance that I don’t care about Disconnection or forced abortions, which offended a lot of people here). It’s the portion of my bipolar disorder that’s termed “active-aggressive”. Now, what did you want to ask?

            • Toni m

              Hum…Funny.

    • richelieu jr

      Done.

  • MaxSpaceman

    By T. Paine. Scientoloy-cult.com

    When assigned to the RPF, one of the first things you had to do was work out and
    remedy why you were assigned. As stated above, during this time period
    (the 1980s, including 1990) a great many were assigned for reasons best known
    to Miscavige and none that would make any sense. That left people pondering the
    imponderable. How do you figure out what you did wrong that got you assigned to
    the RPF when there was no good reason? But you’re not about to be freed unless
    you come up with one so you invent something that would make sense to Miscavige.
    But, because you have to “handle” this with auditing and training over
    the next so many months or years and because you will remain incarcerated until
    you do, I can assure you that you very much come to believe in your false
    failing and you very much come round to Miscavige’s way of thinking. And
    because you never want to go back onto the RPF, when you finally do get off you
    will do ANYTHING to agree with Miscavige, thereafter.

    Believe me, I’ve been there and done it. By the time you get off the RPF you
    tell yourself “I’m never going back, no matter what.” Many would do anything
    to make sure they didn’t return. And despite being elated that you’re off and
    despite having had auditing while on the RPF, you feel a certain kind of
    weakness, an odd sort of instability. I didn’t know what that feeling was until
    later, much later, when I read the following:

    “SECURITY: The personal security of the staff member is so valuable
    to him apparently that when it is undermined (by false accusations and
    injustice) he becomes less willing and less efficient and is the real reason
    for a PTS condition.” — LRH, HCO PL 24 Feb 1969

    What started out as a re-boot camp that would last weeks on the Apollo,
    Miscavige turned into something Stalin would have been proud of in terms of
    re-education, reprogramming and brainwashing because the Int RPF qualified
    under every point of behavior modification and then some. If you scan down the
    list of elements that comprise brainwashing and compare those with the Int RPF
    you will see they are all there.

    But the guys in the later 80s got off light if you compare the above with what
    Miscavige did to David Mayo, John Nelson, Julie Gillespie and others out at
    Happy Valley in the early 80s. He had them living under similar conditions but
    each running around separate trees all day long under the desert sun. To their
    credit they had the guts to tell Miscavige to shove it and they left (though
    that’s not how he tells it). But my point is this: whatever you do don’t buy
    the idea that Miscavige came around to the idea of behavior modification
    gradually, he was doing it in the early 80s and he kept right on doing it and
    is still doing it.

    Of course Miscavige’s influence was not limited to the Int RPF. By the late 80s
    the RPF in Los Angeles had well over 300 souls on it. The one in Clearwater was
    sizable too, plus there were RPFs elsewhere. And all RPFs had shades off this
    and to get off you had to be approved by RTC and I know people who were on for
    five years, six years or more.

    Just as the gulags of the Soviet Union created good little Communists, so the
    RPFs under Miscavige churned out good little Miscavites.

    • Techie

      A good quote from T. Paine but sadly it is not true that the RPF was a walk in the park before Miscavige. The standard Hubbard version was just as bad (I was on it in PAC in ’83 before Miscavige had much to do with it). And what about the army of RPFers crawling through the asbestos and fiberglass infested Complex in the 70s? I do agree that the threat of the RPF and the brainwashing involved was a powerful deterrent to dissent in the Sea Org.

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      Damn. T-Pain was a Scientologist? I had no idea.

      • richelieu jr

        The vocoder and harmoniser are dead giveaways….

      • MaxSpaceman

        Scientoloy-cult.com T Paine a part of the site.

    • richelieu jr

      It reminds me of a famouss troya bout an interrogator speaking to one of the peple in Gya,tanamo, and kid who ahd been 1( when he threw a grenade at a US Army truck, and was sold out by his ‘friends’ fo a reward, labeled as a terrorist and then grew upin prison… He was, bu his own admission, guitly of throwing a grenade at an ‘enemy’ truck in his homeland..

      The interrogator said to him: ‘Confess. To something, anything. Because nobody innocent will ever leave here.”

      If you are ‘innocent on the RPF, that would mean Slappy was wrong, and that can never be.. So figure it out, SINNER/TERRORIST/SP

      • WildaBeast

        I believe you’re talking about Omar Khadr, a Canadian citizen. It is an enduring shame my country will have to live with forever that we didn’t try to get him out of Guantanamo for so long.

        • richelieu jr

          There is plenty of shame to go around…

  • aquaclara

    I am sorry that Tiziano was disconnected by his brother, Flavio. This has to hurt him and his parents beyond belief. There are NO GOOD disconnection stories-each one rips families apart.

    Jon, thank you for an excellent assessment today. This series is the college class on why Scientology is rotten to the core. You have such a stock of good stories and just as in your book, share them with honesty and perspective. Love your writing, and hope that anyone who has not yet read your book, click on Amazon or go visit a local library.

  • Captain Howdy

    Goodnight and I’ll leave you with my theme song

    See y’all in the funny pages

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEQL6z1U0wY

    • Eclipse-girl

      Sleep well

      • Captain Howdy

        Thanks..and oh wait.. I forget it’s Caturday, so this is my official theme song..I’m a sneaky bastard.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rOjt2h1Gr8

        • deathtoallpoliticians

          a sneaky and cheeky bastich, my friend! love the phenomenal cat! and i am pretty sure that my own little cat was intently watching the monitor the whole time. =)

        • richelieu jr

          Even better song… I’ve been up for over 50 hours and just can’t get to sleep…

          • Toni m

            Be careful. Sleep is needed.

            • richelieu jr

              Indeed. I have very severe sleep disorder…

              Finally slept for 3 hours this morning;..

        • Cat Daddy

          Purrrrrrfect

  • MaxSpaceman

    “The theory is that when a victim is subjected to enough punishment, he will forget his former allegiances and can be ‘re-educated’ politically.” — HCOB 11 April 1982, Sec Checking Implants, L Ron Hubbard.

    • richelieu jr

      If you look closely, you can see he crosse out ‘Mao Tse Tung’ before singing over it…

  • richelieu jr

    This John, a thousand times this.

    L’il Davey is a chip of the ol’Block…. He is behaving as Hubbard behaved and Scientology is continuing to be Scientology (though is purer, form, unable to evolve, because ‘Source’ dropped that hot, ripped, marvelously maintained bod of his and toodled off to catch a train on Venus…)

    Hubbard doesn’t seem to have actually beat people (ad opposed to cruel, maintained mental abuse and occasional torture), but he didn’t need to: He was a big, red-faced bear of a man, very intimidating. Davey is a hot-headed little homunculous, as ‘tall as three apples’ as we say here in France, and he’s wound up in steroids until he is hard as a hammer and everyone looks like a nail.

    If he didn’t have a gang and dispense vicious, unprovoked beatings at the drop of a Hat, someone might pop him right in the lie-hole the next time he started poking his finger into their chest and screaming at them, Hubbard-style… As is, if they take on this Boston bean, they get the whole can of Mean Beans emptied on their skull…

    But this is a difference in style, not in intention or function. The goal- Intimidate, terrorize, maintain control, instil fear, avoid questioning of any kind.

    To wit:

    BBC: And what about your second wife?
    HUBBARD: I have no second wife…

    LEAH: Where’s Shelley?
    TOMMY: YOU DON’T HAVE THE FUCKING RANK TO ASK ABOUT SHELLEY!!!!!
    (please don’t beat me COB! Really, i didn’t know she’d ask, but I totally recognize I pulled this in with my SPness and Beingness of Being a Doucheness)

    LESSON: We don’t ask questions.

    The natives are restless.. Someone is beating the Tommy-Toms….

  • Great White Clam

    There’s a new movie out!

  • MaxSpaceman

    Bruce Hines. Tampa Bay Times. 2009.

    Hines said he spent three years on the RPF, on a labor crew that cleared land, painted old mobile homes and built sheds at Happy Valley, a church-owned tract about 10 miles from the base.

    Finally authorized to return to the base, he reunited with his wife and their son, who was born in 1984, prior to a church ban on children imposed on Sea Org members. It took all of three weeks for him to land back on the RPF. His offense? He didn’t stand up when Miscavige came into a room.

    This time was worse. He lived in an 8-by-10-foot shed and slept on concrete. He couldn’t talk to anyone. He was under constant guard. Letters he wrote his wife were read and returned to him. She divorced him while he toiled in isolation.

    Looking back at his six years in the RPF, Hines views it as a mind-control technique.

    “In the RPF, they try to get you to take responsibility. You are supposed to confront the evil things you did, and deal with those in auditing. You are there because you are evil.”

    “And you are there because you were destructive, and you were destructive because you were acting on your evil purposes. And I, the whole time I was in the RPF, I am trying to convince myself that it was me, it was my own fault.”

    • richelieu jr

      That’s it man, exactly… It’s like 1984 or A Scanner Darkly…
      Re-education the Maoists called it…

    • Toni m

      Mr Hines should be proud of himself. I am proud of him. He didn’t not only left this evil cult but he went back to school to get a Master degree and now he is doing very well. Stupid and ignorant dm, he did not recognize the good and intelligent person he had close to him.
      You too MS I’m very proud of you, I read what you post today and I’m glad you are out. Wish for you a happy life.

      • Jimmy Threetimes

        Out of what?

        • Toni m

          Yes, MS told me. I misunderstood the comment or the comment wasn’t his. I was close of 1am I was tired after the comment I went to sleep. But MS is a good person too. He deserved the complement. Anyone that takes time of their life and be here to help put down this cult is in my book of good person.

          • Jimmy Threetimes

            Agreed.

      • MaxSpaceman

        Uhm me am a never-in :-

        • Toni m

          Sorry I misunderstood the comment. Well, much better for you. Anyway have a happy life. I ‘ll erase the last part of my comment.

          • MaxSpaceman

            Thanky toniM – you good peeps.

  • richelieu jr

    Excellent, just excellent, John!

    Well-reasoned, insightful and refreshingly comon-sense and free of jargon. Who could argue this?

    I direct you to the last chapter of ‘Inside Scientology’ wherein a second generation, young Scientologists interviewed. She believes much of what is said about MIscavige’s beatings based on ‘Where there’s smoke, there’s fire’, mostly, but puts much of the blame on those around him who haven’t stopped him. As good Scilons they should, you see.. It’s all about accepting responsibility!

    It is up to her and her generation to save Scientology,t o take responsibility, not to give up, but to do better than the adults; becasue–

    She can believe that about Miscavige, BUT NOT ABOUT HUBBARD!

    “The man who wrote such wonderful things could never have been involved in anything like that” (I paraphrase).. Clearly she’s heard nothing, but wouldn’t listen anyway, so…? She seems so pure, and sweet and well-intentioned.. a delusional doll…

    I shudder to admit that I read that, and felt sad and sick, “Maybe it finally really is a religion,” I thought. “It is impervious to facts and depends on faith in spite of mountains of evidence…”

    This makes me wonder if all your facts and startling insights really matter… Hubbard got away with it..Miscavige is not far… and perhaps the next in line (though Slappy is pretty good at Stalinizing the opposition, right upt o airbrushing them out of history) is taking careful notes:

    “RAGE is the secret!!! Make them afraid, and contradict yourself so they are paralyzed, confused and need to come to you for help…
    NB: Careful with the beatings, though… COB seems to be bringing down the heat because of the overt violence.. Destroy them emotionally and emotionally..
    Leave the physical stuff to henchmen.. Don’t get your hands dirty if you can avoid it…
    Bulk up, get strong and look intimidating…
    If I don’t get tall enough, maybe I could carry a whip or something…?

    NOW GET UP YOU F*%#ing ASHTRAY!!!!

    THANK YOU!!!!”

  • Pierrot

    The fifth post at 02:00am ETZ of the CL List for
    the 2014/02/22 A-Z from 2014/02/21 to 2014/02/22 from 10:00am to 10:00am ETZ

    https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/taking-down-co-on-craigslist-co-ads-on-craigslist.113779/page-53#post-2423613

    Thank you to Espiando for helping out Eclipse Girl with her bot, let see if I have shaken off mine!

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      Dot

  • Troy MacGyver SP

    This clam was on FB on a COS site trying to get other’s to lie and said that they had been to his treatment,dianetics center in Cali. He wanted them(actually to put on Yelp,Google earth etc..Funny the last person there had a horrible time.http://www.yelp.com/review_share/uO74K70aguwS2hAj53_oPQ/review/kdE2pTSV593GNbEO2br1vw?fsid=vifS2MZwKCVbJuD5kVQ2sg

    • Troy MacGyver SP

      http://www.yelp.com/biz/hochman-and-associates-scientology-and-dianetics-group-granada-hills

      Make Troy’s family happy and make it the most useful on yelp.I feel sorry for Troy his daughter,Moonunit and her, huffin’ computer cleaner habit. Fucker was on those fun posts of BlackRon getting clams to lie for his business. It should have tipped off at least,Moonunit. He also audits young children. Yuck!!!

      • Troy MacGyver SP

        Stares at them in the sauna with his sandusky scion stare.

        • deathtoallpoliticians

          that is some funny shiate, right there, tmsp! i just spit apple juice across my keyboard and monitors. thank you very much!

      • Jimmy Threetimes

        Who is Troy? Are you Troy?

  • Great White Clam

    Miss Cabbage. F5

  • valshifter

    “My ideal is emotional equilibrium. Rage would not be any part of that ideal. I have never admired it.”
    I was looking for the same when I came into the cult, “emotional equilibrium”, but it was an eye opener a week after being inside the cult I realized that people cuss a lot (a sign of discontent), they smoke a lot, and upper management scremed into people’s faces in the hallways, (not very Ideal), and all that behaviour trickle down from the Master himself, not very Buddah like, when I read that he was comparing himself to Buddah , I said to myself; you got to be kidding me, kind of pissed me off, and inmidiatly thought to myself “copycat”

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      How long were you in?

      • valshifter

        long enough to smell the cofee, or should I say the berthing rooms?

        • DodoTheLaser

          Ex-Sea Org, eh?

          • valshifter

            yep, CC Int Hollywood

            • DodoTheLaser

              Thank you. I once went on tour to Nashville, TN with couple ladies from CC Int, one of them was originally from Joburg, Australia and knew Hubbard. I also had a buddy from Eastern Europe who was/is SO at CC Int. How long it’s been since you are out?

            • valshifter

              about 15 years, and the memories still there seems like yesterday. I didn’t speak about it to anyone, for a long time I was affraid, till I found the website Scientology thru the door, about 3 years ago, I also used to reed Operation Clambake a lot but my mind was still fucked up I was trying to retain all the scilion mind, I did not want to let go completly, till recently…and now this website has helped me to unwind a lot, I feel a lot freer from the scilion web now. reading other peoples points of view about the cult has helped a lot.

            • DodoTheLaser

              I hear you and I feel you brother. It’s a journey for sure.
              Good thing there is a lot more to life. Hang on tight, friend.
              We are in it together and it will only get better from this point.

        • richelieu jr

          Welcome back to the the real world, man. It’s better place with you in it.

    • Exterrier

      Yep. I witnessed the sadism and bullying from top down at Celebrity Center. Sweet Davie Petit, Pam Lancaster Johnson, and in course rooms from time to time. Intemperate and foul mouthed. This was as a public. And the reges could get nasty as well, if they though they could intimidate you. Mainly, they would forget I was around, and I could see the “kick down, kiss up” authoritarian dynamic in action.
      Actually, this struck me as almost sub Darwinian, sub Homo sapiens behavior, this new Homo Novis culture.

      • DodoTheLaser

        “Actually, this struck me as almost sub Darwinian, sub Homo sapiens behavior, this new Homo Novis culture.”

        Precisely. Thank you.

  • Truthiwant

    When I was in, I remember being told that Hubbard very rarely threw a temper. One of the few times he did, I was told, was when he was invited to South Africa by the government to help resolve all the problems in the country. I can’t remember the whole story, but something about the government not accepting his projects and this lead Hubbard to become very frustrated and have an extremely rare outburst.
    The only other time I remember being told about him getting very angry was when he was working on the OT levels and was making extraordinary breakthroughs but one day things weren’t going so smoothly and he was heard shouting in his room.
    Even his moments of losing his cool were related as showing what a fine man Hubbard was and of course as either being somebody elses fault (the South African government) or because of the sheer magnitude of work associated with the remarkable and difficult discoveries he was making to give to humanity.

    • DodoTheLaser

      Yep. Or that time when Hubbard was developing Power processes and would supposedly break door knobs/handles accidentally. Or that time when he supposedly broke his back and his arm during OT 3 discovery. Or that time when he decided to drop his body because it was an obstacle in his further OT research and just laid down and sailed peacefully to Target 2. Yeah…

      Also, every goddamn Sea Org veteran I’ve met, totally adopted the screaming tech from Hubbard.

      So much fucking ARC, you will cry your eyes out, and mostly for something that wasn’t even your fault.
      Some legacy. Be sure to confirm.

    • DodoTheLaser

      Re: Rhodesia, just a couple photos.

      Credit: © Bettmann/CORBIS

      • Truthiwant

        Yes, it was Rhodesia, not South Africa. My humble apologies, Ron, if you are reading The Bunker!

        • DodoTheLaser

          Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) is in Southern Africa. So you good. No Cramming today.

          • richelieu jr

            YOu’re too knind! Throw ‘im in the blige locker with the 4 year-old, sez I!

      • DodoTheLaser

        P.S. In both pictures above, Hubbard is leaving Rhodesia, after his FAILED attempt to conquer a country with his OT 3 powers. Shortly after, he came up with the Sea Org, to justify the OT fail and wrote an article/manifesto about OT’s not being able to survive alone, because of course.

  • Tone

    Kirstie is really warm and fun-loving in person.

    • DodoTheLaser

      Hey! She can cook, make jokes and tweet! Always leave the door cracked open, remember?!
      Seriously, I would love Kirstie and Juliette to go full blown “SPs”. I think it’s just a matter of time.

      • Qbird

        ok – door cracked – got it… and she does love to tweet. This is true.

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      Kirstie is really a warm cinnamon bun-loving person.

      • Tone

        Mmmm who isn’t!

  • Sydjazz

    Hey lets play animals that look like kirstie alley

    • richelieu jr

      Fattus Actricus, otherwise known as the ‘Shit-slinging Aspersion Monkey…”

  • Sue

    The thing that shocked me most about Jon Atack’s piece is that it took him three days to confront the person who had verbally decimated his wife, in his presence, leaving her unable to function professionally. Jon doesn’t go into how the verbal assault affected the rest of his wife’s life but I can imagine it took her a long time to recover from both the attack and the betrayal by her husband. I’m not surprised she is now his ex-wife.

    • Cat Daddy

      Maybe Jon is one of those gentle souls
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laEIpPjPWRg

      • media_lush

        Horrifying accounts… glad he got out.

    • media_lush

      Choosing to use the word ‘betrayal’ in this case makes you come across as a bit of a douchey rookie on this subject…. you should read a few books or do bit more research before you start making aggressive comments like that…. how about his own book for starters.

      • Sue

        You don’t get to describe me as “douchey” without me calling you a wanker. I’m not a rookie on the subject of scientology either and I have done my research, although not in any systematic way (I do have a life). My comment was hardly aggressive, it was merely direct. I am not going to read his book or any book on scientology: I’ve read plenty of his pieces on scientology and this was the first one to shock me. Also, there are enough first hand narratives available online to give anyone a good insight into scientology without reading entire books on the subject.

        • media_lush

          You obviously haven’t read enough as the mindset of long term scientologists and the way they were taught to treat their spouses and siblings is plainly horrifying, there have been numerous first hand accounts by commentators here as have there been numerous stories over the years going back to Tony’s Village Voice articles…. to then go on and criticise someone by using the word ‘betrayal’ is just a cunty thing to do as it IS an aggressive word in the manner you used it

          • Sue

            The adjective you were reaching for is cuntish and it does not apply to my comment. I have been reading Tony Ortega’s articles on scientology since his Village Voice days as well as blogs by ex sea org personnel, so I think I’ve got a good insight into the subject. The incident referred to by Jon didn’t happen within the confines of the sea org but in his own place of business. There are also plenty of examples of former sea org husband and wife teams whose bond could not be broken by scientology. The only person being aggressive here is you.

            • media_lush

              You went out of your way to say:

              No wonder your wife left you, I don’t blame her. You betrayed her.

              Pretty cunty (or cuntish) thing to post.

            • Sue

              I neither said nor did anything of the sort. I don’t know that his wife left him – the marriage could have ended by mutual agreement for all I know. So, for the last time, there is nothing cuntish about my original comment. It’s a pity you can’t say the same.

            • media_lush

              That’s the way it came across…the other comments seem to agree

            • Ralph Hunter

              Sue, this is a comment on a very very old thread, but I’d say the way you were treaded bY media
              lush is the same way Jons wife was treated by the assistant.
              Screamed down and called names. ,basic sci tactics

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      I agree with you that he should have come to his wife’s defense immediately, rather than taking 3 days to think about it. But that’s the beauty of hindsight. What I don’t understand is that someone can be talented enough to sell ~200 paintings, then simply lose their gift after someone screams at them for 10 minutes. Perhaps there were many, many other factors in play.

      • MaxSpaceman

        I saw it as she lost the will, not the gift.

        • Jimmy Threetimes

          Even so, how does being yelled at by a lunatic crush one’s will so horribly that they can never succeed again? She created art of such quality that people would pay money for it, then she gets screamed at, and year after year go by… but she can no longer create beautiful works of art.

          Really? The only way that makes sense is if what the loon was screaming at her was written by Satan himself.

    • EnthralledObserver

      I think Jon himself addressed this specific failure on this point… the indoctrination allowed him to overlook it… but three days was all it took for his good self to come to its senses. Betrayal is rampant in $cientology… I think Jon’s behaviour is remarkable given the levels and frequency of betrayal … a sign of a good man. I wouldn’t like to think this incident was the greatest likely factor for her now being an ex. You can’t use wog standards to judge $cientologists, compare yes, but not judge… it’s not fair.

      • richelieu jr

        I would like to see wog LAWS used to judge Scientologists, thanks. ‘Crimes’ is a real word, you know– Not that made-up Scientology version.

        Still, in this certain sense, I’d say there were extenuating circumstances. That said, we judge others’ personal lives at our own risk.

  • Sydjazz

    Kirstie cat

    • Sydjazz

      Yeah thats her

  • My name is Larry Lester

    Thanks Jon!

  • Dr_Orpheus

    It puzzles me that Hubbard had persistent money problems in the late 40s. The booming US economy had plenty of construction projects which should have provided ample opportunities for a civil engineer with proven wartime leadership skills.

    Even more strange, neither the US Navy nor the COS version of his service record show any duties which took advantage of his engineering degree. A construction battalion would have been the most logical work for a CE with a shipboard engineering officer as an alternative.

    A more cynical person might suspect that he lied about his education.

  • FancyKat

    I have a good bet LRH was gluten intolerant. That is where the rages can come from and the strokes also come from it as well. Gives very hight blood pressure and more. IT causes mental issues. Celiac is one part of it. I deal with it and I can tell you I can get very angry over not much if I eat the wrong foods. Or get gluten of some type somehow. He had the sysmptoms of it. I recognize them.

    • FancyKat

      But it did not excuse the rest of the behavior.

  • Zana

    Thank you, Jon Atak, for your amazing revelation here. This is so helpful.

    I understand why it took you a few days to work through the craziness of that Sea Org guy screaming at your wife for 10 minutes. It was a shock to you as well. You loved her enough to marry her. The fact that you recovered in 3 days and that you broke away to become Loon Ron Hubtard’s biggest nemesis is huge.

    I was raised by a rage-a holic. We were all in shock. I was diagnosed later with Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome. My brothers and my mother were all stunned and cowered. I attracted numerous people afterwards who repeated this pattern. My brother imploded and died from it. When a perceived authority does this to someone – especially someone as open as a child or an artist – it’s immobilizing to all around. A total shock, unless you’re a warrior-type where you expect it and can discern, defend and demolish the attacker. But if someone you think is a Good Daddy and a Protector and whom you trust turns around and demolishes you… It stuns you. The fact that you recovered so quickly is amazing. It took me more than 40 years … And there are still things that I’m de-fusing.

    This is one of the most helpful things I have read on this blog. He was an alcoholic and his “family” reflects the dynamics of an alcoholic family. Cowed and fearful and unable to think or originate for themselves. You put the last piece in the puzzle for me. I never heard about his rage before. Whew! It’s a relief to put this last piece in the puzzle. Thank you for all you have done.

  • Ralph Hunter

    You can tell from this picture she’s a fun loving people person? She’s drunk! Boozy, sweaty , smoking and about to pontificate on some issue. That’s not fun