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Jon Atack: For Scientologists, thinking outside the church can feel like breaking a taboo

ScientologyMythbustingJon Atack is the author of A Piece of Blue Sky, one of the very best books on L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology. He has a new edition of the book for sale, and on Saturdays he’s helping us sift through the legends, myths, and contested facts about Scientology that tend to get hashed and rehashed in books, articles, and especially on the Internet.

On Thursday, Jefferson Hawkins explained to us how Scientolgy’s system of “ethics” seals church members off from outside influence. But how, ultimately, do Scientologists then break out of that bubble and escape? Jon Atack this week helps us understand that process.

JON: I left Scientology because a close friend was declared suppressive. I refused to disconnect from him — enforced disconnection had just been reintroduced — but he insisted that he would not communicate with me, in case it affected my relationship with the Organization. I spent six months “following policy.” I started with the Saint Hill Ethics Officer and then moved up to the HCO Area Secretary. Unable to get any sense out of them, I wrote to the International Justice Chief (where do they get these titles!), pointing out that we all have a right to a hearing, at least according to the policy of Scientology. There had been no “bill of particulars,” indeed no accusations of any type. No “committee of evidence” and no “findings and recommendations.” There had not even been a “Suppressive Person declare.” My friend’s name had just been put on a list, along with several hundred others.

Eventually, I wrote a letter to Ron, which read something like, “I know that L. Ron Hubbard does not receive letters written to him, but this is the last recourse in Scientology.” I received a cheery missive, with a fake Hubbard signature (for a while the actual authors initialed the signature) that assured me “Of course I receive my letters” and went on to point out simply “Your letter is on my desk.” This was the result of six months of adhering to policy. Evidently, none of the “terminals” (!) that I’d written to had the same respect for policy. They simply did as they were told. Who cares about “self-determinism” when you have an order to obey? Maybe it will be allowed in some future lifetime, once the galaxy is “cleared.” Until then, “I promise to uphold, forward and carry out Command Intention” — in the Code of a Sea Org Member — is the closest any of them can get to self-determinism. (This seems the right place cite Hubbard’s Code of Honour: “Your self-deteriminism and your honor are more important than your immediate life.”)

I wrote to my declared friend, and asked what the real cause of his declare was. He was overseas, so he suggested that I speak to two of his bosom pals, who would explain his and their own “declares.” I was a little surprised that these “Suppressives” turned out to be courteous and friendly people. They showed none of the assured signs of the Suppressive Person. Neither of them spoke in “broad generalities.” They gave the “exact time, place, form and event” (and the identities of those involved, which for some reason is missing from Scientology Axiom 38, which supposedly defines truth). Far from attacking any “betterment activity” they were highly concerned that the new management was perverting Scientology. They explained the take-over of the Organization by David Miscavige and his cohorts. Along with the restructuring of the criminal Guardian’s Office (only the intelligence staff remained at work, curiously), the attack upon the Missions Network, the only significant way of bringing in new recruits, and the formation of new and nasty departments with bizarre titles. (the International Finance Dictator showed a profound misunderstanding of the emotional effects of language, and remains a favourite of mine, along with the Inspector General of the Religious Technology Center, with its echoes of the Papal Inquisition, and peculiar masonic emblem.)

These two supposed suppressives were so helpful that I determined to talk to more people to whom I was not supposed to talk. After all, I was an OT and a qualified “auditor.” Why should I be frightened of anyone? I was not going to be turned into a coward by Scientology. Within a few months, I’d met and enjoyed the company of a range of “SPs,” including Captain Bill Robertson, who had been appointed Second Deputy Commodore by Hubbard, so with Hubbard gone and Mrs Hubbard disgraced, he was the de facto head of both the Sea Org and Scientology, but, without remit from Hubbard, Miscavige had declared him. Bill was wacky, but well meaning, and he certainly never did anything to suppress me. That his predicted invasion and take-over of Earth by the Marcabians didn’t happen in 1986 is another matter, but one that reflects on his predictive notions and personal craziness, rather than making him an “anti-Scientologist.” Indeed, there was never anyone more pro-Scientology than Bill.

I met Otto Roos, the first OT VIII and one of only five top-level Class XIIs trained by Hubbard. He has also been Hubbard’s auditor, but fell from favour for pointing out the hundreds of “rock slam” e-meter readings noted in his counseling folders. Hubbard had changed the meaning of the rock slam — originally named for “the rock,” a basic mechanism in the “reactive mind,” which all of a sudden ceased to be mentioned — the rock slam came to mean “evil intentions.” Hubbard had ten times more of them than anyone else, but Otto was put ashore for pointing this out. Otto proved to be urbane and very helpful. He too spoke very specifically, without adding any “bad news,” so according to Hubbard’s “anti-social personality” bulletin, Otto was not an “SP.”

I interviewed the “World’s First Real Clear,” John McMaster, who told me that he’d departed after been left flailing in the water for a couple of hours with a broken collar bone (not a shoulder bone, as some authors report). He did not have a kind word for Hubbard, and pointed out that running away from SPs was foolish and could only lead to trouble.

I met Cyril Vosper, who left after 14 years and many meetings with Hubbard, and wrote the amusing and best-selling Mindbenders. It was just over 14 years since he had left, and he told me that he still fell into the mindset at times, wondering, for instance, if he’d “committed an overt.” He was an utterly delightful man. He also said that he still spoke to recruiters when approached, and would tell them that he had known Hubbard. They would excitedly ask for his recollection of the Founder, and Cyril would say that he had never met anyone with such foul breath. Hubbard was scared of dentists; so let his teeth rot in his head.

Once I’d broken this taboo, I went further. My dear friend Mitch Beedie, who was my greatest supporter and a tremendous help during the first six years that I stood up against the cult, decided to question Hubbard’s views on psychiatry and, most specifically, the human brain. He read Oliver Sacksโ€™ marvelous The Man Who Mistook his Wife for a Hat and passed it on to me. Why had this phobia of psychiatry been stirred up in us? The film Awakenings, with Robert de Niro, is based on Sacksโ€™ book of the same name, which describes his use of a drug (a “psychiatric drug” indeed) to wake up patients who had been asleep for years, because of a disease. How could this be considered “suppressive?”

It became painfully apparent that Hubbard had built a phobic fence around us. Although we were able to “communicate freely on any subject with anyone” (according to the Grade 0 release), there were people with whom we must not communicate, on pain of expulsion. Every psychiatrist, psychologist and counselor was part of a great conspiracy, so Hubbard claimed, but as I met psychiatrists who had been harassed by Scientology, they were quite evidently decent people who had become concerned at the difficulties encountered by some Scientologists, which included psychosis brought on by “auditing.” For their attempts to help, they were not only stigmatised, but might well have LSD put in their toothpaste (the GO did this at at least one conference, speaking of suppressive acts).

To break free from the influence of Scientology, I thoroughly recommend an encounter with a few psychiatrists and psychologists. Do this procedure until you realize that they rarely agree on anything, so the notion that they are in a conspiracy to rule the galaxy is simply bonkers. The secret given to Sea Org recruits that they are doing this through perfumes just shows how desperately delusional Ronald Hubbard was. A couple of books that make a good start in this direction are Aaron Beck’s Prisoners of Hate, a very closely reasoned argument for compassion (rather than the harassment doctrine of Scientology), and Robert Jay Lifton’s Destroying the World to Save It, a chilling account of the Aum Shinrikyo cult, which stockpiled enough sarin gas to kill millions in Japan. Much of Lifton’s reflection upon cult involvement is highly relevant to the irrational and unthinking behaviour inculcated in Scientologists by Hubbard. Here are two of the great minds of the twentieth century, and their ideas should wean anyone from the infantile notion of any great conspiracy. It takes a while to digest Scientology and get it out of your system. Why not treat yourself, and break a few taboos for your New Year’s resolution?

 
——————–

A Note on the Rathbun lawsuit

We were getting a lot of questions yesterday about Monique Rathbun’s lawsuit, and we understand the reason why. On December 13 we reported that Judge Dib Waldrip had ordered that Monique could depose Scientology leader David Miscavige, but upon Scientology’s request, Waldrip stayed that order for one week, until 5 pm yesterday.

Monique’s attorney, Ray Jeffrey, explained to us what Waldrip had done was ask Monique’s team to wait a week before beginning the process of scheduling Miscavige’s deposition. This would give Scientology some time to seek an appellate stay of the deposition order. However, there was no deadline last night for Scientology to get such an order, and we haven’t heard yet whether they’ve even requested one yet.

What expired last night was the period during which Monique was asked not to act. Now, today, she can begin pushing Scientology for possible dates for a deposition of Miscavige. As soon as we hear whether Scientology has filed something with the appellate courts to hold up that process, we’ll let you know.

Also, according to the docket, it appears that Scientology was able to get a hearing on its anti-SLAPP motion — which should have been heard by December 17 — set for January 8.

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on December 21, 2013 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

 

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  • Rachel Heidi

    Great information and advice from Atack! I like that he encourages people to interact with psychologists and psychiatrists. There’s probably no better therapy for getting over the CoS than, well, therapy.

    • allioops

      Yes indeed..Thanks to my wonderful therapist, I am alive today. This is after 27 years being “suppressed” by Scientology.

  • monkeyknickers

    Okay.

    One:

    Scientology is stupid.

    Two:

    It’s fucking go time around here.

    I’ve got my niece and our suitcase and I called a cab. ๐Ÿ™‚

    And I got my iPhone. I’m totally gonna update you, kids.

    • Rachel Heidi

      Congrats, good luck, breathe, blah, blah! Squee! ๐Ÿ˜€

    • monkeyknickers

      Don’t worry I won’t include visuals.

      MAYBE.

      ๐Ÿ™‚

      • Rita Gregory

        I want a visual if the babies have lottery tickets and a gimlet upon arrival.

      • Eivol Ekdal

        A Clay Demo will suffice.

        • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

          I see what you did there.

          • EnthralledObserver

            Did monkeyknickers pack her clay… ?? Did anybody actually ‘see’ her pack it alongside Ash’s colouring book and crayons? *is worried now*

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              I never leave home without it. Why would anyone???

            • Valerie Ross

              She needs the demo kit too . . . Scrunchy face

      • EnthralledObserver

        Er… no… we gotta have the ‘birth story’. Sorry fellas… just accept it, it’s gonna happen!

      • 10oriocookies

        I could deal with the visuals, the smell is what knocked me on my ass. Whoa.

        • Valerie Ross

          Lol I hope she doesn’t read that until afterwards. She is already freaked out about the “messiness” of the whole process.

          • NOLAGirl

            Thankfully those precious faces will blot out most of the visuals she sees before & during. Our minds are good like that. ๐Ÿ™‚

      • joan nieman

        Monkey…I hope you have the easiest labor ever. We send you piles of love and are so anxious to welcome your babies into the world! Go Monkey!!

      • Scream Nevermore

        Just pop them out safely, and you can include whatever you want! Good luck babes!

        • KJP in Portland

          LOL…I said that to the kids Mom during labor with #1. One of the few times she ever said ‘FUCK YOU’ to me, ever.

          Labor is like having your back snap. or having a leg chopped off. It can be THAT painful.

          GO MONKEY! Scream until the cafeteria in the basement can hear it! Even my derpy, dorky butt is rooting right along! My 2 children’s births were the 2 greatest days of my life.

          • Valerie Ross

            Ok true confessions time. My mother in law, who I had only met 3 times before was doing OTV when I went into labor with my daughter. My water actually broke in her motel room at the Manor (now CC). We went home, changed the sheets on the bed, and while we were waiting for the doctor to,show (Scn Dr and he did come to your house for deliveries in the 70’s) she started to vacuum the floor.

            I was already in transition. My response to this mostly unknown very sweet woman who was cleaning my place for me was “TURN THAT FUCKING THING OFF!!!!!!!!!”

            The best part of the story. That is THE ONLY thing I said the entire time I was in labor.

          • Rita Gregory

            I would have punched you! Lol!

          • Troy MacGyver

            This isn’t eastern Europe you can ask for a,”saddle block”,which will stop all of the pain from your waist down.

            • cicely neville

              They don’t do saddle blocks any more, I understand . Saddles are tricky – I had a nasty experience with one – by second baby, they had something better. And that was in the ’70’s!

      • KJP in Portland

        Ok…I’m in “BEST’ mode…where the gonads is everyone? below? 3 pages below?

        • Valerie Ross

          We are all holding our breath waiting for Monkey to post . . . I wonder if she’s distracted?

    • monkeyknickers

      Don’t worry I won’t include visuals.

      MAYBE.

      ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Rita Gregory

      Yay! ๐Ÿ˜€

      • monkeyknickers

        How weird is it that I’m updating the blog reporting on the cult that has my sister captive while on the way to give birth, huh??

        • Rachel Heidi

          It’s modern. ๐Ÿ˜‰

        • DodoTheLaser

          It is awesomely weird! Pretty sure the docs will treat you like a queen, even though they’ve seen it all! The Bunker is with you! Now go deliver new life! <3

        • Rita Gregory

          Life is strange!

        • Missionary Kid

          May your little monkeys be healthy and whole and your delivery short and sweet.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            This!

        • Peter

          This birthing may well be the most eagerly anticipated since the Second Coming! Your new kin already have more friends and supporters than any one of us on the blog! You’re doing great, MK, and we know you’ll perform like a true Academy Award winner!

        • Observer

          Not weird at all considering how many people here love you and are standing with you. <3

        • tetloj

          Circle of life

        • I miss my children

          And as the song could go…”mothers, don’t let your babies grow up to be ‘scions.’ ”
          37 years ago my twin daughters were born. Fortunately, their mother did all the pushing and it ended as a successful C-section. After the first two years, having twins was easier than having only 1 baby as they could entertain each other much of the time. Good luck.

        • Casabeca

          Happy birthing day to you, my dear!
          Our force is with you <3.

        • Valerie Ross

          Scientology steals one, you keep the daughter of the one they stole and spit out two more. What better place to report the birth of more people joining in the push to help free your kidnapped sister? I think this is the perfect place to be talking about it.

        • LeahRocks

          Not weird at all! The Bunker is family….

    • Eivol Ekdal

      May you soon have a little monkey in your knickers!

      • EnthralledObserver

        That’s two monkeys…

    • aquaclara

      Wishing you all the best, Monkey!

    • MO Mom

      Whee!!! My best advice is to take any pain killers they offer. And OB nurses are the best people in the world. They’ll take excellent care of you!!

      My baby will be 21 in 3 weeks. Not sure how that happened… She is still the best thing EVER!

      • Crimsontide

        Kudos! I tried a birth w/o painkillers so I could experience a natural birth and all its wonders. What was I thinking!!!???

        • Scream Nevermore

          A friend of mine was determined not to take drugs – as they wheeled her into the hospital she was demanding drugs at the top of her voice!

        • junojones

          The drugs they gave me didn’t work and I couldn’t have more until the baby was out. No epidural, thanks, I’ve had them before and the sitting still while they are injecting me was not happening in my state. So the first words to the nurse immediately after the birth were “GET ME THE DEMEROL NOW!”

        • Valerie Ross

          My labors were both so fast by the time I even thought I wanted drugs it was too late, I am one if the lucky ones I know.

          • Kitz

            That’s how mine were as well. No time to stop and think, “Hey, this fucking hurts!”

          • Crimsontide

            Actually, mine were as well. 6 hours at the hospital for the first, 4 for the second. No drama except fear for the unexpected which never happened.
            I feel that MKs delivery will be just fine!

    • Sidney18511

      Good luck MK! Hope your having an epidural!

    • EnthralledObserver

      I am with you in theta, baby… my one advice for childbirth… when you get to that point in labour where you think to yourself that you cannot possibly go on much longer, look at the time. Everytime I did this with my babies it turned out that ‘point you feel you can’t cope’ was ‘transition’, and approx. half an hour later I was holding my baby. Now, of course you have two to contend with, and it may not be the same, but I hope this little tidbit will be of some help. I’m here… reach out telepathically and I’ll be right there as your moral support. Hugs to you both… ๐Ÿ™‚

      • Valerie Ross

        Ah yes transition. My husband’s first wife actually said “I want to go home now, I don’t want to have a baby.” During transition. When you feel that way, the end is near.

    • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

      Best of luck, Monkey! If they are boys I hope you call them Tony O. and Johnny T. Knickers ๐Ÿ™‚

      ((((HUUUGGGSSS))))

      • Valerie Ross

        They are girls Ruby and Delphine. She has known for quite some time now.

        • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

          I haven’t been here that much lately. I work a lot :-/

          Good for her though ๐Ÿ™‚

          • Valerie Ross

            Sorry my comment came off as brusque. Even someone who comes here daily can’t always take the time to read through the comments to glean that type of knowledge. The only reason I put the “she has known for quite some time now” in there is so someone reading the comment wouldn’t misconstrue it to think that the babies had come out. Re-reading my comment, it makes it look like I was trying to make you look like an ass for not knowing that. That was not the intention.

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              It’s OK, Val. No offence was taken ๐Ÿ™‚

    • EnthralledObserver

      Oh, gosh, I hadn’t seen your edit… wow, I hope you weren’t hurt during your fall. Do be sure to let the staff know that happened… just to be sure they check you out good and proper. Hope you are doing well so far and are being pampered by the delivery staff.

      • Rita Gregory

        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      This is too exciting!

    • 10oriocookies

      Sweet. We are with you kiddo… Fuck that silent birth shit. Let em know who’s in the house. Loud and proud girlfriend. Heres’s to two healthy additions to the Bunker Family.

      • KJP in Portland

        Oh, God, yes. The ward halls were thundering when my 2 teens were born. I think their mother could’ve been a Wagnerian soprano. I have a boomer voice, but she had me beat both those days.

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        As if our dear MK would keep it to herself…??? Which reminds me of an old joke. This is often used to illustrate the Yiddish word “gevalt.” (Word Clearing, if you will.)

        Many years ago, Madame Rothschild was about to give birth. As was the custom in those days, she’s at home, and, since they are wealthy (they are, after all, ROTHSCHILDS), both a doctor and a midwife are present. The midwife is in the bedroom with the Madame, while the doctor and the Baron are sitting down the hall, playing cards. And, of course, there’s no painkillers in those days.

        They hear her moaning, “Mon dieu! Mon dieu!” The Baron jumps up, but doctor says, “Deal another hand, plenty of time.”

        A little while later they hear her yell, “Oh my God!” and again the Baron jumps up. “Sit, it’s not time yet,” says the doctor.

        Then, a little later, they hear a lusty cry: “Oy GEVALT!” The doctor stands up and says, “It’s time.”

    • chukicita

      Remember to breathe! And remember, us wimmins have been doing this for a really, really long time – thousands of years without benefit of doctors or hospitals, even.

      • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

        You mean for quadrillions of years, right? (…according to El Ron)

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      With you in spirit, MK. We will have snacks ready when you are. Bunker Babies soon to launch!

    • NOLAGirl

      YAY BABIES!!!!!!! We love you MK!!!!! Give all three of the princesses a kiss for me. (((((SUPER HUGS)))))

      Wait…you fell??? Are you OK??

    • Valerie Ross

      Stupid stairs anyway. That’s how I broke my foot last year. Where is Kitz?

      Edit: don’t forget to unpack niece from suitcase upon arrival at hospital.

      • Kitz

        Waiting with everyone else to hear news of Ruby and Delphine’s arrival.

        • Valerie Ross

          Stupid stubborn Monkey I’m a gonna slap her upside the head for not texting you first and hitching a ride. She reminds me of someone else I know. Oh wait . . . That would be me.

          • Kitz

            Lol! Yeah, I’m a bit miffed at her as well, but she’s damn independent. ๐Ÿ™‚

            I’ve sent her a message to let me know when she is ready for visitors, and then I will go up and join the circus that is going on.

    • Tomato Thetan

      Good luck, MK! Lots of people sending good wishes your way!

    • Observer

      Bunker babies! Squeeeee!

      And I’m not even a baby person!

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        Bunker babies! Bunker babies! Bunker babies! Of course, I am SO a baby person. I want to kiss them whenever I see them and I always try to angle a chance to hold them!

    • tetloj

      Remember to breathe honey and you’ll be fine. The way out is the way through!

      Squeeeeeeeeeee!!!

    • Espiando

      Just get them out today. The world needs more Sagittariuses.

      • NOLAGirl

        Sorry Espi. There is no rushing “uterus-tech” ๐Ÿ™‚

      • villagedianne

        Yes, that is my sign. Sagittariuses are the optimists of the zodiac.

        • Espiando

          Which makes me a universal contrarian, I guess.

          • Midwest Mom

            I’ll bet that everyone could guess that I am a Sagittarius, as well, on account of the fact that Espiando and I are so much alike, ๐Ÿ˜‰

      • junojones

        Saggie here as well. I always tried to explain Sag to people in terms of Walt Disney ‘s (himself a sag) three major characters, Mickey, Donald and Goofy. Each of these are stylistic approaches to facets of sag personality:

        Mickey is the happy-go-lucky sag, the one who dreams, can recover quickly from setbacks, keeps a somewhat jovial demeanor, especially in public.
        Donald is the sag temper and crotchety cynicism. But just like Donald can’t stay mad and usually reconsiders his feelings, so does the sag.
        Goofy, well Goofy pretty much sums it up. If you trip over things on the sidewalk that aren’t there, you might be a sag.

        Pop culture astrology for what it’s worth. Caps aren’t bad either. I envy the way they are all responsible and everything. The twins will still be on the solstice cusp, How cool is that? ๐Ÿ˜‰

        • villagedianne

          Yes Capricorns are practical and goal-oriented. And they have great bone structure!

      • Kitz

        Cusp babies…. THAT’S going to be fun, lol!

        • Robert Eckert

          Goats that shoot back!

          • Kitz

            *Snerk* That’s awesome!!

    • SP Wannabe

      Supercalifragilistic! Wishing all four of you girls the best day EVAH! But, wait… if these are Bunker Babies, and The Bunker is Tony’s baby, does that make Tony a new Grandpa? Congrats, Grampa Knickers!!
      And don’t fret about a thing, baby girls! If it takes a village to raise a child, this is one hell of a village!
      (I’m a lurker, but I had to post for this – I’ve been obsessively refreshing the comments for a week now, looking for Ms. Knickers before I could settle down and read the article!)

      • NOLAGirl

        I love this. ๐Ÿ˜€ Paw-Paw Ortega.

    • Ruby

      Yay MonkeyKnickers! Git R done! xo

    • OrangySky

      Monkey! We await the number of Monkeys on this blog to triple ASAP!

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        I’m pretty sure they’re coming out with their ruby slippers on! Ash now has them on her charm bracelet.

        http://i.imgur.com/B7mKqels.jpg

    • Kim O’Brien

      WE LOVE YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • jeff

      Winter solstice twins! All the best wishes a toi de moi.

      • Kitz

        Yesterday was ‘Mothers Night’ for us Heathens. Seems very appropriate to me somehow. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Kim O’Brien

      I am crying ….this is SO AMAZING ….YOU ARE SO AMAZING

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Blessings on you and your babies Monkey!

    • cicely neville

      Just saw this! GO MONKEY!!!
      We’ve all been waiting so long – What a Christmas present!

    • whenpigsswim

      So excited for you, your family and the new twins to be. I can only hope you have as much fun with them as I am having with mineโ€ฆ.. an amazing adventure no matter how you look at it. I wish all of you the very best and can’t wait to hear more!

    • dagobarbz

      You fell down stairs? How OT of you! I heard that’s one of their powers…

    • KJP in Portland

      Hi Monkey! I’m sitting here in Troutdale with ya too! Are you at Emanuel? Providence? (No, I won’t invade your privacy). Could be at St, Vincent’s too.

      C’mon babies! Don’t give mom a 12-hr labor!

      • Kitz

        Couple hours south of Portland ๐Ÿ™‚

        • KJP in Portland

          That’s right! I beg your pardon forgetting that. Alamo Bowl!

          • Kitz

            LOL… They shouldn’t have gotten that in my opinion… Probably why I’ve no say in any of that. ๐Ÿ˜‰

    • KJP in Portland

      G O O D M O R N I N G E V E R Y O N E ! ! !

      Wow…it’s the big day, and I’m somewhere nearby to the big event!

      Monkey, if you need anything today, if you need me to fetch something from a store, etc. I am on call.

      In my house, my wife and I had to postpone Xmas ’till January 2nd ๐Ÿ™ My first check was for only one week, and the electric bill was at the last day (550.00). My daughters’ 12/29 B-Day has to wait a few days.

      Anyway, all people are cool with it in my house. My 2nd check will be good (a whole 2 weeks). MY POINT IS: I have a package I want to mail Michael for the (3) kids, it’s just gonna have to come a handful of days after New Years.

      Someone correct me. Daughter is 4? Does she like Legos yet? My Little Pony? Bratz? (ducking), Barbie? Maybe she likes toy cars, or little hand held games? For all I know she has done a Rubik’s Cube already…Will one of the ladies give me a hint?

      Also, is clothing, or sockies more needed? for the twins? (and even her 4 yr old?)

      I don’t know what ‘Knickers financial situation is, so I’m not sure which direction to swing on this one…

      OHHHHHHHHHHHHH BIG DAY! Puts me in tears because that’s all I could do the days I became a Dad.

      <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

      • Valerie Ross

        Monkey insists she needs nothing. She is not well to do financially but does not like accepting help from others. She claims to have kitted them out quite well at second hand stores , etc. she is going with CLOTH diapers very insistent on that, and has a diaper service lined up, but I think all of us know that even one baby goes through more clothes or blanket sleepers in one day than one would think humanly possible so I dint think you could go wrong with clothes. She’s breast feeding too.

        Ash (her sister’s daughter, the sister in SO, Monkey is raising her) is 4 and likes pretending to be Wonder Woman, being a big sister, she’s really excited about using the microwave to cook meals, dinosaurs. She’s more into the creative bent than commercial childhood games.

      • Kitz

        I have to agree with Valerie. From what I’ve heard and seen around the house, crafting kits would send Ash to the moon. ๐Ÿ™‚ I know she likes to color!

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Go get ’em girl! errrrrr, get ’em out…….is that more correct?

    • LeahRocks

      So my prediction was correct? Lol

    • S.Saint

      Monkey, so anxious to hear you and babies are O.K.

    • Verve

      Yay, more monkeys! Hope it goes easy (relatively) for ya.

    • stillgrace2

      Liar, liar, pants on fire.

  • monkeyknickers

    Okay.

    One:

    Scientology is stupid.

    Two:

    It’s fucking go time around here.

    I’ve got my niece and our suitcase and I called a cab. ๐Ÿ™‚

    And I got my iPhone. I’m totally gonna update you, kids.

  • DodoTheLaser

    “JON: I left Scientology because a close friend was declared suppressive. I refused to disconnect from him โ€” enforced disconnection had just been reintroduced โ€” but he insisted that he would not communicate with me,
    in case it affected my relationship with the Organization.”

    This is too familiar. I had some friends who got declared for all the wrong reasons.
    Then I was declared. And my whole family. And now I have even more friends, old and new.
    Some refuse to disconnect. And so it goes.

    • Priscilla

      in a perverse way, the disconnect policy has resulted in escapes from COS. That is most excellent. Unfortunately, it also causes a great deal of pain. Sad.

    • Missionary Kid

      At least your whole family got declared, so you got to see them afterwards.

  • media_lush

    “Hubbard had changed the meaning of the rock slam โ€” originally named for โ€œthe rock,โ€ a basic mechanism in the โ€œreactive mind,โ€ which all of a sudden ceased to be mentioned โ€” the rock slam came to mean โ€œevil intentions.โ€ Hubbard had ten times more of them than anyone else”

    Amazing, even the bogus tech he invented sussed him out (puts a new meaning on “hoisted by his own petard”, ed)

    • EnthralledObserver

      ^^^^ This!

    • Eivol Ekdal

      There are NINE definitions of “Rock Slam” in the TechDict.
      I guess he could just take his pick. With those shitty meters with no EMI protection, it’s funny to think those needle rock slams could be caused by a fridge kicking on or a radio taxi calling in to the office outside an org.

    • Observer

      D’oh! I posted before I read this. I’ll just call it GMTA.

  • 0tessa

    Thank you again Jon Atack for telling the truth. Hope it helps those who are in doubt.
    Hubbard: the greatest rock-slammer of Scientology! (Using their own terminology.)
    I wonder if Miscavige has the same amount of rock slams.

    • EnthralledObserver

      No doubt he would if he did any auditing… the shyster!

  • Sena (ใƒ„ใ‚ฃใƒผใƒŠ)

    “I met Cyril Vosper, who left after 14 years and many meetings with Hubbard, and wrote the amusing and best-selling Mindbenders. It was just over 14 years since he had left, and he told me that he still fell into the mindset at times, wondering, for instance, if heโ€™d โ€œcommitted an overt.โ€ He was an utterly delightful man. He also said that he still spoke to recruiters when approached, and would tell them that he had known Hubbard. They would excitedly ask for his recollection of the Founder, and Cyril would say that he had never met anyone with such foul breath. Hubbard was scared of dentists; so let his teeth rot in his head.”

    I found the part about L Ron’s teeth (and breath) really interesting. No wonder he looked hideous in one of his interviews, which I think I’ve seen a clip of a couple of times. ><

  • Graham

    Keep publicising, keep donating to the Wise Beard Cause: http://www.gofundme.com/5ty4fw

  • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

    Alexa update for Dec. 20: *refresh for image*

    Tony: US rank #16,489 โ€“ down 309 from yesterday.
    Scientology: US rank #40,503 โ€“ down 963 from yesterday.

    Difference: 24,015 โ€“ 654 more than yesterday.

  • Missionary Kid

    For those of you who are willing, please take the time to take the poll on what you think the results will be on Monique Rathbun’s suit. For some reason, Disqus took one of the answers and held it for moderation. Tony had nothing to do with it. I’ve re-added it to the list.

    You can vote for as many outcomes as you want, even if they conflict, but you can only vote once. The unscientific poll is at http://tonyortega.org/2013/12/15/sunday-funnies-scientology-celebrates-the-holidays/#comment-1167327042

  • Miss Tia

    Morning y’all! ๐Ÿ™‚ Excellent article this morning!!

    Y R U SO SCARED of Suppressive People or Potential Trouble Sources @scientology? Shouldn’t UR TECH allow U 2 handle that instead of hide?

    For a group that claims they want to clear the world @scientology if you’re hiding away from over half the population, uh you’re gonna fail.

    LRH’s tech can cure diseases (no it can’t) claims @scientology yet you still can’t handle seeing someone who disagrees w/ you! #Cowards

    Who was a coward? LRH ! Hiding out in Brooklyn, hiding out on the high seas, hiding in a RV! Letting his wife go to jail. @Scientology

    I guess now it’s tradition, cuz COB @scientology is a coward too! HE hides behind an army of attorneys and an armored SUV. #Coward #niblet

    COB @scientology is such a coward he’s only given ONE interview that he spent MONTHS prepping for! It was HORRIBLE! LRH did lots of press.

    COB @scientology cannot DO lots of press like LRH cuz 1) he doesn’t know $cientology that well–he doesn’t practice it! 2) he can’t (cont..)

    2) he can’t speak w/o a teleprompter, he can do NO spontaneous speaking 3) he has an EXTREME temper problem 4) he has to maintain (cont)

    4) he has to maintain TOTAL control at all times & doing press won’t allow that! Better to be a total coward as COB @scientology is! #Liar

    What other ‘religion’ has a leader SOOO unwilling to speak to the press like @scientology? The REAL Pope speaks to the press & people.

    How about 2 keep getting tax exempt status church leaders HAVE 2 give interviews or answer questions from congress? @scientology #NotAChurch

    Why do @scientology men seem 2 give up in lawsuits when faced w/ the possibility of ex/missing wives being deposed? @TomCruise & COB in TX? [i know COB didn’t like GIVE UP in TX, but his side stopped arguing a point when the possible depo of Shelly was waved around]

    How many failed marriages, misguided lawsuits, bizarre PR stunts will it take for @tomcruise 2 realize @scientology just uses him? #Techfail

    In just a few years when Suri is taller, she can look down on @TomCruise & say “Daddy, why was a cult more important than me?” @scientology

    Who goes 110 days without seeing their child who isn’t in the REAL military? @tomcruise! He’d rather go to a @scientology event! #CultFirst

    Who is now an expert at psychiatry AND at abandoning their daughter for @scientology? Yep, @tomcruise! Let’s not be glib about it though! ๐Ÿ™‚

    All the money @tomcruise wasted suing a mag that TOLD THE TRUTH. It could have been spent on children in need or another charity! #Egomaniac

    Even @charliesheen on a bender in a more attentive father than @tomcruise! Maybe Charlie could help Cruise loosen up a bit? #Winning #Truth

    Have they got around to auditing your campaign donations yet @SheriffLeeBaca? Bet most are from @scientology members! Birds of a feather…

    Now you can be a Ideal Org HERO in the UK @scientology by donating $5000, uh HEROES aren’t made via giving MONEY it’s by ACTIONS! #Delusions

    Like with the @scientology Humanitarian ‘award’ which is also bought. Being a Humanitarian & Hero are done via actions & CANNOT BE BOUGHT!

    The ONLY Heroic & Humanitarian actions @scientology appreciates though is the opening of wallets to contribute to COB’s slush fund! #Greed

    I have no doubt most of the people donating are GOOD PEOPLE but their time & money would actually HELP people if it didn’t go 2 @scientology

    What does @scientology do to help others outside of the CO$? NOTHING! The VM to disasters is a DISASTER! It’s just a slush fund for COB!

    Those in @scientology should start ASKING no DEMANDING to see where/how their money is being spent!! It’s only right & fair! #Accountability

    • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

      Keep it up, Miss! I love your work!

      • Miss Tia

        Thanks Johnny Tank! I have to say every time I see your user icon with the frowny face I want to give you a hug to make you smile! ((hugs)) ๐Ÿ™‚

        • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

          You’re so kind. (((hugs))) right back at ya ๐Ÿ™‚

          Who knows, maybe one day I will smile!

          • Miss Tia

            I hope you do! ๐Ÿ™‚

          • Free Minds, Free Hearts

            Johnny are you holding out for the cult to go down in flames, then you can smile? Let’s do it in 2014!!

    • KJP in Portland

      Spitfire reigns!

      • Miss Tia

        I’m working on something ‘special’ for Christmas Eve! ๐Ÿ™‚

  • EnthralledObserver

    Oh great…. now I really don’t want to go to bed in case I miss anything exciting. Even the most fantastically tempting Makemerich live testimony couldn’t keep me up all night… I would just catch it in the morning, but Bunker babies… now that is really tormenting me.

    • Missionary Kid

      They’re gonna come out when they’re ready. She may not be able to have her iPhone with, so go to sleep. All the rest of us can do is wish her the best.

      • EnthralledObserver

        ๐Ÿ™‚ Okay then… but try waking me if there is any exciting news, okay? :p

        • Missionary Kid

          Yup. I’ll “postulate” that.

          • EnthralledObserver

            Awesome… night MK! Night ALL! And do good work, monkeyknickers – see you again when you are hopefully in 3 parts!

            • NOLAGirl

              Sorry downvoter….you can’t kill the joy in the Bunker today.

              Basically….go “click” yourself.

              Love you EO!! Sleep well. (((HUGS)))

        • Robert Eckert

          We’ll send Mike Rinder in a helicopter to buzz your house.

  • Missionary Kid

    Everyone. Monkeyknickers is at the hospital, according to her post (one of the first this morning) I’m sure that everyone in the Bunker wishes the best for her and her twins and niece.

    • Missionary Kid

      As of this time, this is her last post. http://tonyortega.org/2013/12/15/sunday-funnies-scientology-celebrates-the-holidays/#comment-1167327042, which was at 4:26 am Pacific time, (7:26 Eastern) time.

    • Sunny Sands

      I’m happy for her that she went full-term with the twins, it’s a good sign.

      • Missionary Kid

        I’m glad she did, too.

        While MK was waiting, I chose not to talk about my youngest, who was a 10 month baby. Living with a woman who’s got a baby that’s been dropped in the uterus for a month is, shall we say, an interesting experience.

        That’s why I could say that babies come out when they’re ready.

        One woman commented that all sorts of strangers somehow feel free to come up to pregnant women and tell them horror stories about their pregnancy.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Thank you for letting us know – we are waiting for the wonderful news about these babies, and Ash will make a great older sister-cousin!

      • Missionary Kid

        I just wanted it to be easier for people to find out.
        I’ve never met MK IRL, but we’ve talked. (Ash got sick, so she couldn’t come to Portland). At least Kitz and Michael Tilse are close and have met her.

  • Once_Born

    “[psychiatry’s] conspiracy to rule the galaxy is simply bonkers. The secret given to Sea
    Org recruits that they are doing this through perfumes just shows how
    desperately delusional Ronald Hubbard was”

    I remember passages in “Bare Faced Messiah”, that describe Hubbard’s requirement to have his clothes washed and rinsed many times in fresh water to remove a rose scent that only he seemed to be able to detect – and the abuse he heaped on people when he could still ‘smell’ this mysterious scent after everything he required had been done.

    Was this the first appearance of a sensory delusion that Hubbard later incorporated into his obsession with psychiatry to build a system of delusional thought – that perfumes are the instrument of a world-spanning conspiracy?

    In his later years, at least, Hubbard really was seriously mentally ill.

    • Eivol Ekdal
      • Patty Moher

        That was creepy

        • Missionary Kid

          Of course it is, LRH was creepy.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Arghhhhh! Hi Grandma!

    • Graham

      Reminds me of another old fraud, Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, who used to have ‘sniffers’ stationed at the doors to check that people were free of scents & perfumes before entering his presence.

      • MaxSpaceman

        Rajneesh was a real shit-face like Hubbard.
        How many Rolls Royce’s did he have on his place in Oregon?
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajneeshpuram

        • RMycroft

          93.

          An excellent series on the Neeshees:
          25 years after Rajneeshee commune collapsed, truth spills out — Part 1 of 5 April 14, 2011, Les Zaitz, The Oregonian

          • jeff

            Hey, thanks for the link, RM.

            • Sherbet

              Hey, Jeff, how are you doing? Healing, I hope.

            • jeff

              ? Thanks, Sherb, for the good wishes, but the colon cancer chemotherapy finished in 2011, and while the peripheral neuropathy is ongoing, it is SLOWLY getting better, so yes, I guess healing would be an appropriate way of looking at it. I hope all is well with you.

          • Zana

            I was there. Osho (Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh) was a true enlightened master. He had Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and very likely severe allergies. (I had severe allergies when I had Candida Albicans and scents of any kind could literally put me to bed.) I don’t know the why about the Rolls Royces. I know that Sheila and her Gang were taking over the ashram in Rajnesshpuram, much like DM has taken over Scientology. I wrote a number of letters, all of which were ignored as the power takeover was happening. Osho was very frail and in silence. Dying. My personal opinion is that he wanted to make sure that the ashram did not get overtaken by Sheila and her gang after he died. When Sheila tried to create a religion called “Rajneeshism” he immediately stopped it and changed his name.

            I was there. I was close. I have written a book about it. It was remarkable. You might want to read some of what he had to say or try some of his meditations before you criticize. You can get his ebooks for free here: http://www.oshoworld.com.

            Even the Dalai Lama has said, “Osho is an enlightened master who is working with all possibilities to help humanity to overcome a difficult phase in developing consciousness.โ€

            The one thing that I do know is that the community was overflowing with love. Unconditional loving. And that all of the people I know who, when asked if they would do it all again, jump up and say (even before the question has been asked)… “In a heartbeat!”

            I respectfully acknowledge your opinion and just want to invite you to investigate if you so choose. He was NOTHING like LRH. He was pure Loving. Pure awareness. Pure consciousness. And the best thing that ever happened to me.

            • Graham

              “You might want to read some of what he had to say or try some of his meditations before you criticize.” I’ve done both. I have copies of ‘I Am the Gate’ and ‘Neither This nor That’ on my bookshelf behind me as I type.

              This is probably neither the time nor the place to critique the Bhagwan phenomenon. Just to say that after a decade of exposure to Bhagwan and one or two other supposedly fully enlightened masters my own take on it was that there’s no such thing. One of my most treasured possessions from that period in my life is a badge which says “Good leaders are scarce, so I’m following myself”.

            • Zana

              Perfect. Like the old saying: “If you see the Buddha on the road… kill him.” Ultimately YOU are the Enlightened Being.

              One morning a question was, “Bhagwan, when will we be enlightened?” And he answered, “I look out and see that all of you are already enlightened… pretending not to be.”

              Yes… Follow no one. Find out for yourself. Lead. Sometimes we just need a little help to get us flying straight. The great leaders push the baby birds off the ledge when they are strong enough to fly on their own. Our responsibility is to become strong and share the light in whatever way that we do.

            • Robert Eckert

              If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him.

            • ThetaBara

              You wouldn’t happen to be the designer of the osho deck, would you? If so I’d love to chat.

            • Zana

              No. I love it, though. I still have the Neo Tarot deck I got in Poona in 1979. It’s one of my treasures. And I have photos of him giving me sannyas in my office and my mala hangs on my credenza where I can see it every day.

    • lightblb62

      When I was aboard the ship, the Household Unit, (the staff responsible for caring for LRH), were required to cook 3 separate dishes per meal.. floors were washed and waxed using cloths strapped (or somehow attached.. can’t recall)to the bottom of the cleaners shoes. No colognes or perfumed soaps of any kind were allowed, not in cleaning, nor on ones person. Clothes were rinsed and rinsed and rinsed. It was very Howard Hughes.

      • Missionary Kid

        It makes me wonder what kind of fetish DM will evidence when he gets older – if he isn’t in jail.

        • lightblb62

          Oh it sounds to me like he already has many more than Hubbard had.

          • Missionary Kid

            Since he has no real experience outside the Hub’s psychotic invention, that would be understandable. Hell for him would be having to conform to his wog jail cell.

            • KJP in Portland

              I earnestly live for that day.

          • Once_Born

            Seems to me that the rules of the Sea Org, and the attitudes that exist within it are based on Hubbard’s fetishes – e.g. shouting abuse in a subordinates face for the smallest infraction mirrors his own behaviour when frustrated.

            Miscavige has slavishly followed the {master}. The only original cruelties he has come up with (e.g. the ‘Musical Chairs’ incident) are derivative.

            In this upside-down context, where cruelty is the norm, kindness would be perceived as a fetish.

        • Once_Born

          It’s interesting that Miscavige also requires “3 separate dishes per meal”, as lightblb62 says that Hubbard did.

          • Missionary Kid

            Well, he learned from the master monster.

            • KJP in Portland

              Hubcap! The Genesis Wanker!

        • KJP in Portland

          I hope not live human vivisection…he’s a dangerous, deranged little twerp.

      • Once_Born

        It seems that there are two distinct explanations for Hubbard’s behaviour here:

        1) He was in a position of absolute power over a small group of people who lived in a closed an claustrophobic social environment. There are many studies that this situation brings out the worst in people (notably Zimbado’s ‘Princetown prison’ experiment http://www.simplypsychology.org/zimbardo.html ).

        2) He was paranoid, delusional and possibly experiencing hallucinations. Whether this was the result of advancing psychosis, secret drug use, or both it is now impossible to tell. However, he was certainly presenting multiple symptoms of serious mental illness, and presenting a danger to himself and others.

        In most country’s this would be more than enough for him to be committed to psychiatric care against his will. If he was aware of this at some level, it might have been feeding back into his hostility to psychiatry and feeding his delusions.

        The picture of Hubbard that emerges is of someone who is pitiable and tortured. This was no mastermind of manipulation. The organisation that he had created in his own image had, by this time assumed a life of it’s own and was consuming him.

        • 0tessa

          Like it is now consuming Miscavige.

          • Once_Born

            Indeed.

            Richard Dawkins proposed an entity, which he called a ‘meme’. It is is the cultural equivalent of a ‘Gene’ – an idea that reproduces itself. Memes can combine to form a ‘memeplex’ – the cultural equivalent of an organism.

            This is, perhaps, a useful perspective on the CofS. The CofS memplex has only one imperative – to reproduce itself in the minds of individuals so that it can continue to exist. The welfare of those individuals is irrelevant to it.

            The CofS has always had a serious problem. In order to to function within it, ordinary members have to deny almost every human feeling. It seems that only a small minority can live in this way for very long before they start to question (and ‘blow’) or their physical &/or mental health is compromised (and they are ‘offloaded’).

            In Hubbard’s day, when everything could be done in relative obscurity, a high membership turnover did not matter – there were always new recruits to make up the numbers. However, all those years of abuse created a huge number of knowledgeable ex-members and critics. The rise of the internet has enabled them to communicate with each other and to counter CofS propaganda, choking off new recruitment.

            This leaves Miscavige, and the remaining {executives}, trapped within a dying organisation and helpless to prevent the decline because they cannot think outside of the mindset that it has imposed on them.

            • Missionary Kid

              Very well put!!!

            • Robert Eckert

              Most religious memes are in the nature of “symbionts” which do have benefits for the hosts, and also encourage their genetic reproduction as they depend heavily on parent-to-child transmission for their own survival. “Parasites” have a difficult time surviving if they interfere too strongly with the general well-being or specifically the reproduction of the host organism.

            • Once_Born

              The fact that the Sea Org so strongly discourages reproduction leaves little doubt that Scientology should be classed as a parasite.

              Moreover, it is a parasite which has failed to adapt to new environmental conditions (i.e. the freedom of information brought about by ubiquitous Internet access) and is headed for extinction.

            • KJP in Portland

              To myself, I find it funny that their need for slave labor overweighs their forward-thinking for propagating their population.

              The Mormons have huge families (some); Scientology discourages childbirth.

              WATCH which religion will outlive the other.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Another reason scientology can’t attract the young anymore before they get an education which worked in the 60’s thru early 80’s. There are 10 year olds today who know what OCD is and will recognize it. I know that if I had gone to college I never would have gotten sucked in or at least would quickly realize all the psychological symptoms all around me for what they were.

        • MaxSpaceman

          So many $cilons miss going to college. Like it’s unneeded- if one has Hubbard-tech, who needs a college education, I presume. How old were you , thdnExist when you became a member of the cherch.?

      • RMycroft

        Didn’t Tony publish a Hubbard’s Apollo Orders of the Day, where he ordered the use of deodorant? (No mention of scented or unscented.) I guess Bad BO trumped Psycho Smells.

    • Zana

      Since the Cult is requesting a psychiatric evaluation of Monique, wouldn’t it be wonderful if Jeffery could require a psychiatric evaluation of DM.

      • NOLAGirl

        Are they requesting that of Monique?? I thought it was Laura. Or did I miss something…which is entirely possible. ๐Ÿ™‚

        • Robert Eckert

          You have it right: it was Laura’s case where they asked for a psych-eval.

          • NOLAGirl

            And I’m getting downvoted all over the forum. ๐Ÿ™‚ Guess someone doesn’t agree, and thinks I give a glittery fuck.

            • Missionary Kid

              It’s someone who’s passive-aggressive and afraid unwilling to talk.

            • KJP in Portland

              You and I have a Fan Club ๐Ÿ™‚

            • NOLAGirl

              Awww we love you downvoter, and clearly you have good taste. ๐Ÿ˜€ LOL

            • Robert Eckert

              Debbie Downer sometimes latches on to a particular poster and down-arrows everything (as usual without regard to what the content of the post is). This first happened to Doug Doug some months back. Consider it an honor.

        • Zana

          Ahhhhh… you’re right. It was Laura. My bad. Even so… if they want her to have a psychiatric evaluation… then could they request one for DM.

          • NOLAGirl

            Couldn’t agree more. ; )

      • Once_Born

        It would be great fun to see him squirm (and to learn the results. However, it raises the question about mental health and criminal responsibility.

        Hubbard was at least mentally unstable and probably psychotic. Miscavige is different. He has lived his whole life in an organisation whose rules and practices mirror and reproduce Hubbard’s insane behaviour.

        The undoubted fact that Miscavige thinks and behaves in ways which we see as cruel and insane does not mean he is personally mentally ill, any more than all the people who live in North Korea and believe what they have been told about the miraculous talents of their various glorious leaders are psychotic.

        If Hubbard had ever stood trial I think the question of whether he was responsible for some of his actions would have been an arguable approach. It is possible that he belonged in a secure psychiatric facility, not a prison.

        Miscavige, on the other hand, seems to be fully responsible for his actions. He is the sort of person for whom just punishments were devised. He deserves to be stripped of his money and power, after a period of incarceration.

        • Zana

          Good point. Thank you.

  • Whoknew

    Damn you, Scientology obsession. You’re sneaking into all my other reading. I just read an article about something completely unrelated, and the word “upstate,” referring to the geography of New York, registered as upstat. And I didn’t even catch it at first. I was like, yeah, the design of that New York apartment is *totally* upstat. So cool. ๐Ÿ˜

    • NOLAGirl

      Please leave your “donation” with the reg at the door. LOL ๐Ÿ˜€

      • Whoknew

        Yes, I’d happily pay to tour that apartment and feel like it was worth it. I’d be all kinds of inspired, at-cause over MESTy design issues, tone-awesome, and ack-ing it to everyone. Or whatever.

    • Davka

      Helping my three year old on with her coat the other day, I said, “time to deploy the coat tech!”

      Egads. I hear ya.

      • Whoknew

        Hahaha!

      • Observer

        I find phrasing things as “_______ tech” makes whatever I’m talking about hilarious. It’s just so … so … non sequitur, I guess, and non-sequitur humor is my favorite kind. That’s why I love Monty Python so much.

        • stanrogers

          I find that if I come here insufficiently caffeinated, it’s like walking into the middle of the RAF Banter sketch… with abbreviations on top. And when I take it outside, I’m sure that everyone else feels the same way.

    • EnthralledObserver

      The word ‘wog’ has surpassed my past indulgence of the word ‘muggle’… and that’s saying something about this true Potterholic!
      And “fill in the blank” tech… is frequently suppressed… but it does slip out from time to time. We definitely hear you!

    • Graham

      Yes, I’m finding $cientology references where none were intended. Driving past a notice yesterday it seemed to have some reference to ‘going clear’. Before I could work out what it actually said I had to swerve to avoid a coach which had MOXON’S written along the side. Am I being ‘fair gamed’ by mild innuendo?

      • Whoknew

        Lol! That’ll show up in Freedom Mag as a lesson.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Getting rid of the cumbersome and alien sci speak takes longer than recovery itself. Sorry to hear it is contagious!

      • Whoknew

        Initially there were words I had to look up (in a real dictionary) to see if they were real or Sci. so I wouldn’t be caught using them in conversation outside this site. :

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          I know what you mean. I’ve had many a time where someone made a comment about a word before I realized it was a Hubbardism, although some of it is grammatical, like using a verb as a noun.

      • Whoknew

        The poor people who aren’t exes and for whom English isn’t their first language. Gotta be more complicated for them.

    • Espiando

      Unusually, Illinois has some concordance with Scientology in this regard. We in Chicago regard everyone Downstate as downstat.

      • Rita Gregory

        Hey! I resemble that remark. Maybe if Chicago didn’t hog all the road $ we’d be able to travel faster and increase our stats downstate.

        • Espiando

          You’ve got perfectly good roads downstate. One time, I was on a stretch of I-57 that was so smooth and straight that it allowed me to turn on the cruise control at 82 and casually masturbate. Which is about all downstate is good for, really.

          • Rita Gregory

            Come on down on I-55 some time. I doubt it will be a pleasurable experience. ๐Ÿ™‚

            • Espiando

              I’m very experienced in doing so, thank you. I won’t do it unless I absolutely, positive have to.

      • Rita Gregory

        Most corrupt state in the union meet most corrupt belief system.

    • ze moo

      Upstate NY is the home of cows and lumberjacks and closed factories and people who wear plaid flannel shirts all year round. Downstate NY is the home of financial manipulators and mafia dons and drug dealers and the Rockettes. It is too much fun to make fun of each other, so we’ll never stop.

    • Hubbub

      I told someone they seemed enturbulated the other day.
      (They asked me what kind of made up word that was.)

      • Missionary Kid

        Did they understand what was meant?

        • Hubbub

          Only from the context of the situation. i told them it’s kind of like verklempt. Where I am, everyone knows SNL lingo, but few to none have awareness of LRH speak.:)

          They can’t really understand my obsession with Sci-fi-tology. I tell them it’s like watching a daily ficitional soap opera about fraud, con, the rise and fall of a cult, legal drama and sociology/psychology all wrapped into one. Only it’s all true and playing out in a day and age when no one believes it could happen.

          • bad_magic

            I have noticed something similar in most folk I meet; this innate feeling that history sort of stopped after world war 2. Everything is done now, we’re just in some sort of credit rolling limbo state. Although I take great heart from reading back through the accounts of those who’ve gone before who felt like the world was falling apart then too.

          • Missionary Kid

            Actually, if it wasn’t associated with Co$, it would kind of be a cool word.

            My advice is to hit them with the well known names, like TC & JT, Leah Remini’s story, especially with Tommy Davis’ “You don’t have the fucking rank” statement can be pretty good, but make it short and sweet.

            You can also print out one of the stories, like the one in the Daily Mail about Marty & Monique and hand it to them, but they’ll probably think it’s to bizarre. Laura’s forced abortion story might be a good one.

            If they’re readers, give them one of the books that will snag them. None are light reading, but once someone starts…

            My friends have the attitude that $cientology is weird, and they can’t understand my fascination. It is a good way to forget my everyday concerns. Good luck.

            • Hubbub

              It sounds like some of us have gotten wrapped up in similar ways! I was never all that curious (just thought it was new-agey – what’s the harm) until 1999 when I met someone in the crowd at New Year’s Eve in NYC who told me he had been in the COS cult but his family had gotten him out and gotten him help.

              That was back when Cult Awareness Network was still the real thing and hadn’t been taken over by the COS, I believe. I remember asking him all the basic questions, like: Why would John Travolta who is supposed to be such a nice guy be involved in something that locked you up and made you clean toilets with a toothbrush and barely fed you? The guy told me stories about the mistreatment of the peons in the cult, the wonderful treatment of the celebs, and how people had been locked up on ships sailing the ocean and weren’t allowed to leave the ship or contact their families, etc.

              I believed him because he was kind and sincere, even though it defies logic that those types of things could be occurring. But there just wasn’t the flow of information back then that there is today, and I’ve found most people are still as naive to it all as I was back then (and I still am to some degree).

              Re: making it short and sweet: Thanks for that excellent advice, MK! I’ve learned my lesson on that as I’ve tried to retell the stories from Barefaced Messiah, the lawsuits, Paulette Cooper and the bloody butt woman all over one glass of wine. Yeah… a little much to the un-indoctrinated! That’s why this forum is so nice — to share a similar desire to understand how these things happen, stop them from happening and hopefully prevent others in the future from falling victim to similar.

    • Anonymous

      I’ve had that happen. I’ve been known to call someone a cult drone when they piss me off.

  • Observer

    … the rock slam came to mean โ€œevil intentions.โ€ Hubbard had ten times more of them than anyone else …”

    It’s pretty sad when your own fraudulent rip-off machine pegs you for what you are.

    I wonder if the Clamperor is instructing his legal minions to hold off on filing the appeal for the stay of the depo order until Ray Jeffrey has spent considerable time and effort trying to get the deposition scheduled (and run up Monique’s costs). There is nothing quite so ecclesiastical as spite.

    • Robert Eckert

      It doesn’t matter when or whether they file the petition for mandamus. The appeals court is not going to give it any attention.

      • Observer

        I bet Davey doesn’t think so.

        • Robert Eckert

          His disappointment will be part of the fun.

    • RMycroft

      Trying to apply Hubbard’s rules to Hubbard was a waste of time. He made them up as he went along, and none of them applied to him.

      Reminds me of a card game they play on Rigel 7…

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v77SF4TFUoM

      • Robert Eckert

        Or “Calvinball”

        • RMycroft

          But only on Tuesdays after dark.

      • KJP in Portland

        Ahh, my namesake. One of the top-5 TV series EVAR!

    • KJP in Portland

      Hubbard was a misanthrope of epic levels.

  • Anonymous

    Today’s piece by Jon Atack, courtesy of Tony’s excellent blog, is one of the absolute best commentaries I’ve ever read about how one adopts the Scientology mindset and how to break free of same. Bravo!

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Disconnection occurs even without formal declares in scientology world. Being labeled PTS is like being labeled Plague Ridden, do not approach. Leaving staff especially Sea Org can do it for a certain amount of time, but if you have money and your time to offer on a Thursday at 1:00 pm, you’re back in. What scientologists call it, it is nothing more than emotional blackmail.

    Did I mention my recent Fair Game included a hand delivered Declare? Well let me tell you I was pretty darn upset. It so so, so squirrel! Jon might be interested to know that evidently there are so many happening and/or so few staff left that all you get is a letter Informing you you have been declared and then a tree killing amount of SP bulletins with little tabs or yellow highlights of your naughty deeds. It’s generic, no goldenrod, and certainly no time, place, form and event. Isn’t that a trait of a suppressive? And it was hand delivered by Several overworked staff who had to travel over 30 miles to deliver it the same day it was typed up as if the world would end if I didn’t get it that day. That’s quite a waste of key personnel, another SP trait.

    It’s almost like Scientology is the SP.

    I am full of Christmas wishes this year. My wish today is that Delphine and Ruby Monkeyknickers will only read about scientology one day in school in history books and their Aunt and Ash will share playdates in blissful peace. I know all of us here share in Monkeyknickers dream. It is why we are here.

    Let the Bunker Babies ring in a new year and awaken all those sleeping under an evil spell. Wishing them all home for Christmas.

    http://i.imgur.com/gA6ywP6l.jpg

    http://youtu.be/JYLjEItqsWQ

    • Davka

      THDNE, sorry if you already answered this and I missed it in the comments in another post, but why did they come back at you now? You’ve been out for a long time, right?

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        I was outed. First of all, speaking truth and associating with other SP’s was one. But when fully outed, I have been helping ex’s in small ways for a long time under different monikers. There are very very many like me who need to stay quiet about it so as to build upon the juggernaut of the names you Are familiar with, like the Headley’s, Rathbuns, the Tory’s, etc.

        It is why I say for every story you have heard, a hundred more are silenced, but for every person that has been pushed down, a thousand more will take their place.

        Oh, reason #2 is Miscavige’s paranoia is out of control. It’s more like, who Isn’t being declared this year? heh

        • Davka

          Thank you for responding. I hope someday everyone will just be out and notions of Fair Game just cautionary tales of how things can go horribly awry if people like Lron are allowed to flourish. In the meantime, glad you’re here ๐Ÿ™‚

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Disconnection is the last tool in Miscavige’s “How to Manipulate People, Make Slaves and Siphon their Monies” toolbox. I would say something about scientologists stuck inside believing they will lose their eternity and all that but truth is once they are around sane people and safe environments again they slowly realize for themselves that no one owns their future. That’s just silly.

            • DeElizabethan

              Disconnection is horrible for those out. Then he uses dead agenting, and it’s cast in all directions and insidious too, designed to ruin friendships and trust.

        • aquaclara

          Wishing you a crown and a magic wand for Christmas. Just like Glinda’s, This has magic SP powers and extra-powerful Espi powers, so you can keep doing all the terrific things you do for people, AND bop anyone who tries to stand in your way. (Those Espi powers are borrowed from our own super smack down artist, Espiando. It also entitles you to use any frothy language you wish, because it magically rings in Davy Dickhead’s ear forever.

          He deserves a few new nightmares.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            tks, aqua. So typical. I’ve actually finished my last Glinda act when sci decided to drop down on me. Now that I can do no more, they want me to stop. Like I said, so typical. Now that I’m retired I have just enough resources to help myself in whatever way I need to on a particular day. Well not everything, but basic needs. I’ve had excellent practice since the age of 5 of helping others and am treating myself like a royal Queen. My hubby sez sometimes more like a royal pain, but he now he brings me Godiva with my coffee so I’m good.

            It’s been quiet since Rindercopter, Judge Waldrip’s Depo Dave gift and Bunker’s Moving Trucks arrived. Ho HO HO!

        • Galactic Patrol

          I would really like to talk with you more about this on a private message basis. Is there any other forum or way I can reach you directly (maintaining anonymity, of course)? Are you on ESMB?

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            You can try a throwaway account I think is still around, and no my name is not mcgee.
            try this one. cjmcgee60@gmail.com Do it soon though because I will be deactivating it very soon.

    • Sunny Sands

      That is soooo creepy. It sounds like you answered the doorbell and the goon squad was in your face. Maybe one of their goals was to let you know they know where you live. Glad you now have the night cameras. {{{Hugs}}}

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Oh I’ve had them since the Last time they were playing their crazy games. Miscavige’s goal is to get everyone to stop helping Ex’s and for everyone to STFU. You see how well that’s working. I’m good.

        The ones really suffering are the families disconnected. I hope DM’s latest insanity with the GAT and Super Powers will whittle his few hundred whales down to a handful. I hope all the children or parents stuck inside walk out and join their loved ones this holiday. Even if it is just for a visit. Tks, Sunny.

    • NOLAGirl

      I’m so sorry those a-holes are putting you through that.

      Your wishes for MK & the Bunker are lovely. C’mon over honey, I’m making Double-Stuffed crawfish omelettes (in honor of two babies) and Spicy Bloody Mary’s. ๐Ÿ™‚

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Hubby just said we should go. Last time we were there was to support the town by overdosing on superb concert overload at Jazz Fest right after the hurricane. Even got to see Etta James among so many others I bow to. Thanks. I’ll bring the lemons and hot sauce.

        • NOLAGirl

          That’s my girl. You and Hubby are welcome any time. I’m so glad you got to see Etta, she’s amazing. Did you ever get to see Irma Thomas?? She’s a gem.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            yes, and many more. Usually gigging, so this was catching up on concerts we always missed for half our lives. Usually got to see other musicians after they did their concert and after gig jams. That was my real music education. Thanks again for offer. Now I’m going to have to hit the beachside and order something with a shell for dinner.

            • Missionary Kid

              I’m glad that Etta finally got the recognition she deserved, even though it was late. That woman had soul, and the pipes to go with it. I never got to see her in person, but I remember her from the early 60s.

            • NOLAGirl

              I still dance with my husband to “At Last” around our house all the time. My son just rolls his eyes…which we love. LOLOL Embarrassing him is our job. ๐Ÿ˜€

            • Missionary Kid

              As a parent, I considered it my job to embarrass my kids. Their embarrassment was not my concern. Getting them to become decent human beings was.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              In the kitchen, “Jump Into My Fire” is a good one. Also makes boring housework chores go by fast and you get exercise at the same time.

            • NOLAGirl

              The after-show or after-party are always the best place to be. That’s when the fun really starts. If you and Hubby ever want to come back down just let me know. We’ll make sure you have great food, great fun and never lift a finger the whole time. ; ) There are too many things to list that I’d love to show you. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Priscilla

      Dear Hole, I like your Christmas wish list. May it come true.

    • Missionary Kid

      You wrote, “That’s quite a waste of key personnel, another SP trait.” It certainly is a Co$ trait. They use people like the Chinese used to. To get something done, Co$ uses a huge amount of people instead of modern technology, which they can afford, but the Chinese couldn’t. To say that they do things like ants insults ants.

      I wish the Bunker babies well, too. May Delphine and Ruby arrive safely and have their aunt out soon.

    • SandiCorrena

      Seems like they should just whip up a batch of buttons/badges with “BFD” (Big F’n Deal) to WDM (Wee Davey Miscavige) because basically he’s so obsessed with you all. He’s the world’s biggest stalker! Then we could have BFD parties, secret handshakes, and you could all have the power to deputize us – he’d surely realize very soon just how outnumbered he/they really is/are. You have such a beautiful heart THDNE! <3 You and I'm so sorry for the things you have had to endure!

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        tks and I love your idea. I think Davey got the memo at his recent tent parties. Y’all are hereby deputized! Caek for everyone.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Oh Hole! I love your Christmas wishes and await the day they come true! I am sorry you are being fair gamed. You are brave and wonderful.

    • aquaclara

      As long as the Fair Gaming + resulting nightmares have ceased, I am kinda hoping that those overworked staff members got a chance to see that life on the outside can be very, very good.
      Since they had to drive 30 miles to go deliver a useless piece of paper that was an imperative only in the mind of the Hopeless Leader…

      Perhaps those staff members saw the sun shining, felt the gentle Gulf breezes, smelled fresh air once again and spied some happy neighbors putting lights up on palm trees, getting set for Christmas. Nothing like a drive, even amidst tourist season traffic, to gain some perspective on one’s life.

      Miracles can happen. And it is the season for them, after all. That trip just might produce some positive results for some stuck-in staffers.

      I’m dreaming of a cult-free Christmas…..and those happy babies for Monkey!

  • Anonymous

    Quote from Tony above: “…it appears that Scientology was able to get a hearing on its anti-SLAPP motion…”

    Scientology is the only billion dollar organization I’m aware of the has the guile to send a team of 15 lawyers to press a SLAPP motion against a lone woman that they have already admitted to harassing and surveilling for months.

    What is next?

    Is wee Davey going to start suing his own OTVIII’s for not being able to demonstrate OT powers and causing him bad PR?

    Captain Miscavige, Sir,….you might want to to take a quick perusal of the open laughter all over the media about how the most recent Tom Cruise “they are being big bad meanies to me” lawsuit turned out.

    Keep going with the Rathbun SLAPP motion and be prepared to be the subject of mockery, ridicule and guffaws…on this planet.

    • Zana

      “Is wee Davey going to start suing his own OTVIII’s for not being able to demonstrate OT powers and thereby causing him bad PR?” Terrific.

      And how about those Motha-f@%king Clears? Sue them if they catch a cold and make DM look bad! Wait a minute… he has to sue himself. He still has asthma, doesn’t he?

      • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

        Wasn’t there a video where he said he had cured his asthma twice..?

        It’s not cured if you have to do it again, Cap’n Slappy!

      • Anonymous

        That Davey…what a guy.

        Maybe he could slap himself whiles he’s at it.

        After all, he is so good a slapping and SLAPPing others.

  • Snippy_X

    This just in (not really) — Scientology tweeted today about a PR Web ad from last June that credits distribution of “The Way to Happiness” booklets for fixing the violence in Juarez, Mexico.

    … the homicide rate has declined by 45 percent since the broad distribution of The Way to Happiness, a booklet
    featured in a new brochure published by the Church of Scientology.

    Americas Quarterly reports a few other possible explanations, but admits, “An explanation for the decrease in murders is elusive.”

    Ciudad Juรกrez Mayor Hรฉctor Murguรญa credits Juliรกn Leyzaola, whom he hired as municipal chief of police in 2011. According to Murguรญa, the hard-charging but controversial Leyzaolaโ€”who has also received significant negative attention for alleged police abuses against suspectsโ€”cleaned up Tijuana before moving on to Ciudad Juรกrez, where he has attempted to instill a new degree of professionalism in the municipal police department, weed out corrupt officers, and establish a community-oriented style of policing. Key to Leyzaolaโ€™s crime-fighting strategy was establishing patrol sectors and shifting resources to high-crime areas.

    But there is another explanation, says Jorge Villa, the state medical examiner. โ€œThere just isnโ€™t anyone else to kill.โ€

    The four-year battle between the Juรกrez and Sinaloa cartels for control of the so-called โ€œJuรกrez Drug Plazaโ€โ€”and control of drug routes into the U.S.โ€”has wound down now that the Sinaloa cartel is widely
    considered to have defeated the Juรกrez cartel in a brutal turf war.

    According to Scientology, however, all that the people of Jaurez needed was to be shown “The Way to Happiness” booklet, Section Eight ~ Do Not Murder. Apparently, they had no clue about this up until L. Ron’s booklet showed up.

    • Snippy_X

      Can someone help me, please. I got so stuck here on this step.

      3. Demonstrate, using a demo kit, the difference between kill and murder.

      So which one is this?

      • Observer

        As much as I love Mr. Bill, I have to say justifiable homicide.

        • KJP in Portland

          Oh Nooooooooooo!

    • Galactic Patrol

      PlainOldThetan did a competent stat analysis on this exact subject and gives important corollary information about what else was going on there besides just the big WTH passout which helps explain why the decrease in crime. His post on this is here:

      http://possiblyhelpfuladvice.com/?p=13339

    • OT8squared

      To paraphrase Jon Stewart: If you think Do Not Murder is going to stop people from hurting each other, then you must think Employees Must Wash Hands is keeping urine out of your Happy Meal.

  • BosonStark

    Just from reading about the experiences of cult members experiences as I have, including surveys, Jon is pretty unusual in his journey out beginning with only a friend being declared an SP and his concern about his friend.

    Overall, the SP doctrine has been more successful at keeping members in and often making them more fanatical and afraid of doubting than it has getting people out. It’s kind of a core belief for the “real” clam to remain devoted, unwavering, and in total “certainty” for everything blowhard Hubbard spewed and how the institution has ruled on a certain person’s case, no matter what happens around them and even to them personally at times. One person’s failure to conform threatens the eternity of all members and the future of this sector of the galaxy.

    • Espiando

      Of course, Hubbard ripped that off from people who did that more successfully. There are numerous books out there regarding the movement of the Christian Church, beginning in the early 12th Century, to enforce conformity of belief in the face of the First Crusade. It quickly went beyond excommunication into outright mass murder, with the Inquisition, the Albigensian Crusade, executions of accused witches and gays, etc.

      I have no idea if Scientology considers this a worst-case scenario for Disconnection, or the obvious end that they should strive to. My guess is the latter.

      • Robert Eckert

        Excommunication did not start with the medieval church. Paul’s epistles mention it.

        • Espiando

          I didn’t say excommunication started there. It did reach a new level of popularity as a blanket solution to the conformity problem, though. I did say that, for the first time, they went way beyond excommunication during this time period.

  • Qconsilience

    Interview psychiatrists until you have a cognition. Sweet!

  • Ruby

    Jon’s frustration with attempting to apply policy for 6 months, and then realizing he was the only one doing soโ€ฆthat is a point that hit home for me. I spent YEARS as a staff member trying to get various issues corrected with management regarding our local org. The gross financial orders issued into the orgs were being done by the very people who were supposed to keep it straight. There was never going to be a solution. It was like begging with the devil to let you do the right thing. When it became abundantly clear to me that I could keep doing this for many more years, and still have it only get worse, I stopped banging my head against the wall and left staff. And it sure felt good! Like many others have said, I felt free. That was regarding being a staff member. After that it became easier to see, more and more objectively, the rest of insanity.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Good for you, Ruby. It is actually one of the more successful routes out. Today there isn’t even anyone at top management levels. The 2nd and 3rd gen’s who are staff and children of veteran sci families don’t know policy at all. Why should they? They are all just sales staff. The don’t need no stinkin’ policy or rules. There is only one policy now in scientology world: Get More money this week. That is all. The justice policies are a joke and always have been but it so much more obvious and blatant now. I know one person who waited years to get a response. I’d been out for some time but I remembered enough to point out in sci terms that was a “No Report Report” and it means no one is actually on that post. I don’t think I could use that on any of these children of the corn staff now. They wouldn’t know what the hell I was talking about.

      • Kim O’Brien

        passt…i am so glad you are back . I rarely get to post anymore like i want to but i have missed you. Great work you are doing …

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Thanks Kim. So glad you are busy Working. Heard Santa brought a lot of jobs this year. Missed you all. Have kept up on major issues though.

      • Ruby

        Such a great point that they don’t even know any policy these days. Several years ago, I went in to help on some filing. The person whose job it was to do this was not hatted. I had to show the basic policies. 7 years laterโ€ฆstill NO formal hatting for the jobโ€ฆjust orders.

  • Sunny Sands

    Tent Watchers’ Update Lots of Flag busses around the Sooper Powerz building this morning. Several sea org dressed formally around the buildings. It seems like something is going to happen soon, maybe it’s the Hubbard equivalent of Christmas. Ronmas? IDK. Refried beans shaped like a turkey, with a side of rice dyed red to look like cranberry sauce. Their New Year’s is next weekend. They did not finish the wraps on the tent, almost no progress since yesterday. Saw the word “Year’s” on the wrap, on the opposite side from the picture, I’m guessing it going to read “New Year’s” Yesterday, there was a lot of work being done on the outside of the Coachman building.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      hoping for “Year’s End Going out of Business Sale. Everyone Must Go!”

      http://i.imgur.com/XUljFm0.jpg

      • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

        That deserves a big upvote!

      • KJP in Portland

        I wish we could plug ‘multiple’ upvotes, a la ‘Dancing with the Stars’. I give this one 10 upvotes, ha!

  • Racnad

    Modesty prevents Atack from mentioning “A Piece of Blue Sky,” still my favorite Scientology book written by a former Scientologist.

    • Zana

      Fabulous book. That was the first one I read that articulated LRH’s REAL history. Whew. Thank you, Jon Atak!! You’re amazing.

  • mook
  • Racnad

    Are there any former Ethics Officers who have described their experiences in detail? I’d love to read something along the lines of “Confessions of an Ethics Officer” where they describe their internal thought processes implementing Hubbard Ethics tech that makes no sense, or in other cases following orders from uplines though it violates the same tech.

    • Ruby

      While I was not posted as an ethics officer, I had to apply ethics to my juniors. One situation in particular was regarding a woman who had a child. My seniors were ordering me to have her increase her work schedule and this was a problem as it took away time from her child. Somehow, it happened and she increased her schedule. I have continued, to this day, to feel awful about thatโ€ฆdespite accepted apologies. She is still in and does not have as much guilt about this as I did. I guess at some point I had to realize that she may have done this even without my “suggestion”, as the mindset can get pretty heavy.

      • Robert Eckert

        Do you know what happened to the kid?

        • Ruby

          Yes. He is now a very successful, happily married, young man. He is not doing anything within the cherch.

    • Ms. B. Haven

      I was an ethics officer at a mission way back when during the time period Jon Atack is referring to in today’s post. I will have to go into the details of my experience some other time though, I just got back from a long over due vacation to recharge my vitamin D deficiency and the holiday season is upon us. I will say this briefly, between Jefferson Hawkins and Jon Atack, they describe very accurately what is actually going on in scientology both pre and post DM. I wasn’t in the SO, but trickle-down is alive and well in scientology, even more so than in economic theory.

      • Missionary Kid

        I’m glad you got your sunshine. Welcome back.

        Trickle down doesn’t work in economic theory. The person who proposed it has disavowed it. On the other hand, in Co$, crap flows down hill, and money flows upwards.

    • KJP in Portland

      I haven’t seen you in awhile. Our schedules must be off synch a bit. Good to see you. Happy Season!

      • Racnad

        I’m not sure I know you. Where do we know each other from?

  • Free Minds, Free Hearts

    Mike Rinder’s blog has a wonderful open letter to Davey from Dan Koon, 10 years out after 30 years in, and basically thanking Davey for making his life such a living hell that he blew – and now has a rich and full life – reconnected with family, art, writing, and travel. A reminder to us all of why we are here.

    • KJP in Portland

      FMFH: THAT’S the stuff I enjoy seeing and reading about. Happiness and success stories of ex-Dave-slaves!

      Kudos to Dan Koon. Wherever he is.

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        I love that he got on his bike and rode away when given 2 and a half hours off to go Christmas shopping. The Highway 79 Rundown. I think he said he is now in Sweden.

  • Anonymous

    If there was any doubt left that Marty Rathbun has left the Hubbard / Scientology camp, check out this latest post on his blog from 12-20-13: http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/12/20/deconstructing-scientology/.

    Wow.

    • Espiando

      In the meantime, the clubbed seals who call themselves Indies are confused and bereft of leadership. Who will reassure them that their stupid choice to follow Hubtard’s “teachings” was right, and that they aren’t the wastes of oxygen that they are? Aw, poor commenters. You’ll be the first ones up against the wall when the revolution truly comes.

      • ze moo

        The indies have not had their Martin Luther or John Calvin or anyone who was really ready with the cash to go against the corporate ‘cherch’. All it takes is cash, because you know that copyrights and patents are going to be the heart of any clam vs clam fight.

        GAT 2 and Stupor Powerz are not just a way to make the faithful pay for their ‘eternity’ again, it is to reset the copyright time limit Aren’t all of Hubs original material now old enough to be public domain? I can see an ‘Orthodox’ Reform ‘Cherch’ being formed very easily, once they get around the legal problems that the Corporate Miscavige ‘Cherch’ is going to throw at them.

        • Once_Born

          “Aren’t all of Hubs original material now old enough to be public domain?”

          That’s a very good question. I understand that US copyright on Hubbard’s original writings will be in force for 70 years after his death. Since he died in 1986 we have to wait until 2050 before we can legally copy and distribute it.

          Of course, in practice all of this stuff is available online, as downloads &/or used books going for a penny each. Independent organisations need not be impeded by copyright – all they have to do is publish a reading list, and leave it up to the members to source the material.

          Any quotation (for educational purposes) can surely be finessed so as to be covered by fair use provisions http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

          All the same, the prospect of losing the exclusive right to distribute Hubbard’s {work} is a ticking time-bomb for the CofS. Once it has been released in a free electronic edition the only way they will be able to make money from it is to bully members into buying their own ‘ideologically pure’ editions.

          • Missionary Kid

            Ideologically pure crap is still crap. ๐Ÿ˜‰

            • KJP in Portland

              Hubcap’s writings had as much credibility as Mein Kampf did.

          • Michael Leonard Tilse

            One of the big problems with that is a lot of the original mimeographed issues were printed and distributed without any copyright notice. I saw this myself when I worked at San Francisco Organization, doing mimeo work for them.

            in one of the court cases that copyright became a question in, this came up. Scientology had presented evidence of copyright by submitting a lot of re-printed bulletins and policy letters that had the notice. But, IIRC, it might have been Robert V. Young who helped submit earlier mimeographed issues that had no copy right notice.

            IIRC, this was all going to go to a ‘special master’ in the case, to sort this stuff out, but then scientology caved and dropped the issue or something. So it has never to my knowledge been adjudicated.

            There were magazines and stuff, that had copyright, but a lot of the internal issues that came over telex or fax or where one copy was sent out to the orgs and then retyped on mimeo stencils and printed for org distribution were never given copyright notices, even in the original.

            I think this fact is behind the “L. Ron Hubbard Library” copyright of the newer books. The author is not the real LRH anymore as they have been altered, edited, etc. from the original publishing.

            • Anonymous

              There was also the additional complexity with regard to many (then) confidential issues in that the church was simultaneously arguing in Case A that the materials were copyright protected while also arguing in Case B that the exact same embarrassing documents were counterfeit.

              Estoppel much?

            • Robert Eckert

              Used to be that no-one except lawyers and crossword-puzzle addicts had ever heard of “estoppel”

            • RMycroft

              Jesse Prince affidavit, United States District Court for the District of Colorado, Bridge Publications Inc v. Factnet Inc; Lawrence Wollersheim; Robert Penny, Civil Action No. 95-K-2143, 1998

              It’s all interesting reading, but the section of copyrights starts at paragraph 31.

      • KJP in Portland

        I guess they will have a sizable ‘epiphany’ coming, and relish the rest of their lives catching back up to the world at large, and what they missed out on, once they finally throw off all cloaks of credibility in Hubcap’s writings.

    • KJP in Portland

      He may have left.

      I LOVVVVVE MOSIE.

      But, I’m sorry, Marty is going to have to demonstrate a lot more contrition for me to warm up to him.

      I’m sorry to every one on this blog, but the dude did some really nasty, abusive shit to people. It’s going to take ME some time to reconcile it all in my head.

      • Espiando

        “The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones.” Willie the Shakes pointed out Marty’s destiny. We’re going to remember the bad, but right now, he’s a nuclear-tipped cruise missile headed straight for the window of the Toxic Midget’s armored limo.

        • KJP in Portland

          I know, I was just interjecting personal thought. But yes, he is on the same side as us and his nuclear arsenal is invaluable.

        • Anonymous

          I wouldn’t be so sure about that. If you’re posting here, you already know about Jesse Prince, Robert Vaughn Young, Larry Brennan, etc. Redemption is always possible. Except for Davey, fuck him.

      • Anonymous

        It is definitely a complex puzzle.

        I give Marty credit for creating a stream of information on his blog and elsewhere that:

        1) Chronicled in real-time his own painful decompression from Scientology

        2) Helped many still-in lurkers and others on the fence think through their own situations and ultimately decide to leave.

        3) Attracted and documented the very types of fair game abuses that the church has simultaneously perpetrated and denied for decades.

        Marty used his credibility as a former very senior church executive to get others to listen to a message that they probably would not have heard had it been from another source.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Newsflash. We got it all wrong. Scientologists self flagellating self imposed prison world is not a Bubble. It’s a Box!

    http://www.chron.com/entertainment/article/Strained-Weird-photos-from-a-Scientology-X-mas-5068302.php#photo-5605328

    [http://i.imgur.com/LnruS3j.jpg

    • NOLAGirl

      Who the hell is dressing Jenna Elfman these days??? I guess the Bridge costs more than a good stylist. Fishnets?? At a Christmas party??

      Let me go put another shot in this Bloody Mary.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Either Kirsty’s unFashion designer or Jenna’s Sec Checker. Looks like some form of punishment to me. These scientology celebs are at the top of my list as Supporters of Human Rights Abuses and Disconnecting Children from their Mothers. I am glad to see they are showing the world that they just don’t care enough to do anything about it. Also, they need professional help.

        http://i.imgur.com/0Pqt7J8l.jpg

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          What’s in the stockings? Coupons for frames for the children’s Disconnection Notices or Mom’s Declare? Michell, tell us the Christmas story about Lori Hodgson or Laura DeCrescenzo. How about Heber Jentzsch, the President of your cherch? How about Leah Remini? Does she have a stocking up there?

          http://i.imgur.com/YWb9SqAl.jpg

          (L-R) Catherine Bell, Mike Falkow, Michelle Stafford and Martin Kove

          • KJP in Portland

            Is it like, de rigeur for all Sci-bots to look skinny as a rail? I come from a family that fights weight problems, but almost every on I ever see is SKINNY. I see a few filled out ones here and there, but in the main, they all look 30 pounds underweight…

            • ze moo

              Image is everything to the clampire. Notice Krustie Ally isn’t in this ‘production’.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              This is Hollywood, KJP, a universe all of its own with its own overpriced designers.

            • KJP in Portland

              How about the dude in the Leisure Suit? white shoes too!…ohhhh ROFLMAO!

            • Eivol Ekdal

              That is Cobra Kai Sensei, John Kreese of Karate Kid… “Fear does not exists in this dojo!”
              http://cdn-i.dmdentertainment.com/funpages/cms_content/14905/JohnKreese_front.jpg

            • Captain Howdy

              Dr Nip Tuck definitely did some wax on, wax off on ole John’s mug.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          lightened up for detail. it’s worse. Pass me the celery and keep the Bloody Mary’s chilled.

          http://i.imgur.com/FyV0H0ns.jpg

          • KJP in Portland

            Who’s the chunky one, wearing black, holding her pooch in, again?

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Lady second left is Laura Prepon. You call that chunky? Pleeeeeeeease. I prefer to call her one of the sci celebs supporting Human Rights Abuses and Family Disconnection. The deed, not the duds.

            • KJP in Portland

              I agree Hole. She’s just doing that hands on midriff pose that self-conscious people (LIKE ME) do…I forgot all about Ms. Prepon already. She’s still a tiny fish.

              PS: As stated before here by me; I like my women fleshy and well-rounded. Anything skinny would just.not.be. me!

        • KJP in Portland

          (wonder if the elf-dude got lucky – jus’ sayin’)

          • Scream Nevermore

            Thank you for putting me off my dinner! ๐Ÿ˜‰

        • Eivol Ekdal

          Bad Santa!

      • KJP in Portland

        NOLA, the funny part? Some boutique owner probably charged her $1,800 for that outfit, then laughed like the dickens after Jenna Elfsucker left! ROFLMAO!

    • BosonStark

      I’m torn between clam-in-a-box and a box of clam. I think she’s supposed to be a battery though, like the eternal battery in Xenu’s mountain prison maybe?

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Clam-in-a-box. Perfect, just perfect. Yes it is a battery. Scientologists answer the phone or door or email at 3 am and get all charged up. Then they have to go into the org to get Uncharged. Then they have to pay for the service. Then the bank calls them about their overdrafts and foreclosures and they get all charged up again. So then they go into the org to get uncharged,
        then the reg… to us it looks circular. But to a scientologist who never really goes anywhere, it’s a box!

        Clam-In-A-Box. I’ll be humming That instead of Deck the Halls in the stores now. hahaha

    • Eivol Ekdal

      Is that a Duracell 9 Volt? I thought the Ultra used lithium rechargeable.

    • OT8squared

      They have a party celebrating the birth of someone who was actually one of Xenu’s implants?

  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

    Thanks for a great story with a lot of insight.

  • NOLAGirl

    For anyone just rolling in, scroll way down. MonkeyKnickers is having her babies. She posted info below. It’s a beautiful day in The Bunker!! Nothing but love & happiness today. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Sidney18511

      I am so excited for MK! I wish that she could have a labor like mine. Less then an hour for the first and the next 2 came even faster

      • KJP in Portland

        Lucky Sidney…my 1st took 14 hours, my second took 14 minutes, seriously! LOL!

  • aquaclara

    Jon has shared some interesting tidbits with us once again. First, that is one classy exit strategy. I hope this inspires a few more good people to take that same step. Reaching out to talk to people shows the power of real communication, beyond the LRH rubbish. The “phobic fence” is a helpful way of describing the constraints that lock up people’s thinking. And seeking help from trained professionals is something that needs to be stated over and over again.

    Such a great post for this cloudy Saturday. Thanks.

    • KNMF

      Spot on, aquaclara. The “phobic fence” is a great term. Thanks again, Jon, Tony.

      Sometimes a group, any group, has to circle the wagons.
      But when fear is part of the foundation, and having “enemies” is an essential ingredient for cohesion, well…that is a big-ass red flag.

      Happy Birthday Monkeyknickers! It is still wonderful world. God bless.

  • media_lush

    Some low grade OSA bots are having another go at me at The Hollywood Reporter site.

    If you feel like venting have a go.

    http://edit.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/tom-cruise-settles-50-million-667313

    • NOLAGirl

      I put in my two cents. I’m sure I’ll be downvoted into oblivion over there. ๐Ÿ˜€

      My morning drunk has taken away how many fucks I give about those clowns.

      • KJP in Portland

        NOLA! I like drunk girls! LOL!

        I put in my 2 pennies too. It’s a shill website for gossip type crap. Kinda like a free People magazine.

        Those sites (and magazines) are TRIPE. I don’t have any faint desire to read/watch Hollywood ever again in my 51 y.o. life. I can’t even watch TV anymore. If something BIG in the news hits (9/11, etc.), I’ll be glued to the telly. Otherwise, the wife can watch that expensive 50″ thing I bought her.

        • NOLAGirl

          It’s just a good day for it. LOL In the city, boys off doing their thing before going to the Bowl game at the Dome tonight. Huge breakfast….yeah, it just called for a good drink with it all. ๐Ÿ˜€ Plus, Bunker Babies!!! I’m so happy for her.

          I love some things on TV, others…just make happy that someone invented DVR. The FFW button on my remote is beaten down. ; )

    • Modesto

      You seem to be winning comfortably, Lush

    • KJP in Portland

      I went over there and posted a couple.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      I put in my comments, You are holding your own just great, Media Lush.

    • Espiando

      Well, even though you don’t need (or maybe want) my help, since this is your bailiwick, Lush, I contributed to the general enturbulation. Actually, I had to. St.Claire was there, and since Bury’s not around to handle him, I’m deputized as Bury Replacement.

      • Baby

        OMG Now I know I’m going over..hahaha

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          Me too, headed over there right now.

    • aquaclara

      You did great here, ML. Sending thanks your way.

  • Zana

    I opened my computer this morning to find Tom Cruise on the front page of Yahoo News. Big fat story about him dropping the lawsuit. What a backfire that has been for him. Does he get a dunce cap for Christmas?

  • KJP in Portland

    Ah hell, It’s Christmas…I want a Saturday Funnies too. Maybe Lush can continue his outstanding tradition of keeping us in lulz!

    ‘Morning everyone! (9:30 US Pacific)

    • Valerie Ross

      Monkey is in labor. Switch comments to best. There’s your fun.

      • Interested

        Great…. Finally….. I was getting tired -:)) (giggle) wish her speedy deliveries. (((((Hugs)))))

      • KJP in Portland

        Oh SIT Valerie…THANKS! She’s either near me or just down the road. Literally.

        • Kitz

          Just down the road from you. ๐Ÿ™‚

          • Missionary Kid

            I phoned Michael to try & get some news. I guess I woke him up.

            He didn’t know anything, and I think he’s going to be busy today. Thanks to both of you for helping MK out.

            • KJP in Portland

              She in the Big City? or ‘Down the Valley’ near Michael. I don’t really know, BUT, I’ll be a go-fer today if she needs something.

            • Missionary Kid

              She’s probably down in the valley. She took a taxi to the hospital.

            • Kitz

              Yep, I think my text to Michael was right behind you, so we both had a hand in waking him up, lol.

              First I heard about the impending arrival was when I logged onto here about an hour ago.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              I guess they accepted Ash in then?

            • Kitz

              Absolutely no idea. I have not talked to MK at all today. ๐Ÿ™‚

          • KJP in Portland

            I know…I know…Kitz, are you nearby too?

            • Kitz

              Same town as her, lol. Every one here knows just as much as I do about what’s going on. ๐Ÿ™‚

  • Cat Daddy
    • Anonymous

      I was not expecting that finish…I lol’d.

  • media_lush
    • Missionary Kid

      “Surely there much have been…”???
      I think you could have crossed the line because the person’s family might not appreciate it. They’re worried about their relative, and you bring up $cion. You may get some grief from Clams as well a other wogs.

      • media_lush

        dammit, “must have”… can’t edit… figure most people will figure it out

        • Scream Nevermore

          ML, they’re reporting the death of a 23 year old driver – if that’s the same incident, you might want to just remove the post.

          • media_lush

            not death, accident…. the point of the comment was to highlight Cruises’ “if you come across a car accident you know that you’re the only one who can help comment”

        • Missionary Kid

          That is one advantage of Disqus.

        • Sidney18511

          I love ya ML but I think you should remove your post if you can.

          • media_lush

            what’s done is done… no edit options at all

    • KJP in Portland

      No…not at all. You should see what the tree hugging, eco, vegan, oagan, bicycle-nazi, gluten-free hippies post in our paper’s comment section.

      You were cheeky, satirical, yet respectful with the end of your statement. I liked it.

      • KJP in Portland

        You didn’t have to Down me. I showed a change of heart, and I wrote “edited” on it. Thanks {sarcasm}.

    • Modesto

      Not the time or place, I fear …

    • Anonymous

      Might be a little “inside baseball” for folks that are not familiar with all the references.

      We often forget how microscopically small Scientology is, especially compared to their PR blather.

      • Robert Eckert

        In East Grinstead, I bet people are as aware of Scientology as the folks in Clearwater.

        • Anonymous

          Perhaps…but the Tom Cruise internal video about Scientology?

          Seems like a stretch.

          • media_lush

            all the better for them to look it up if they’re curious

          • Espiando

            You have to remember that this was the video that set Anon off on its path. For that reason alone, its shelf life was greatly increased and awareness of it became more common than it should have been,.

            • Anonymous

              Indeed I do remember.

    • riotgrrrl

      lol awesome, and tasteful at the end. i love these easter egg comments and reviews that make you laugh or think. freakin genius.

  • Satansthetan

    Epic article, thanks to Tony and Jon. Will be spending the evening at a Xmas party where there will be at least one family who are deeply ensnared by Ron’s gibberish,. This article is what I will be making them read if they bring up how marvelous their “religion” is, (they generally keep quiet, I think being surrounded by sanity makes them uneasy). I have to be careful as they are good friends of Mrs ST and I am forbidden from all out confront!! Really do want to lift the veil just enough to let them see how badly they’ve been had without getting shunned.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      This is another aspect of Scientology I find curious. The rest of us are supposed to walk on eggshells around them, lest we offend their delicate religious sensibilities and get shunned. Conversely, Scientologists are supposedly the most capable of the able here on earth, and depending on their position “up the Bridge,” should be able to handle ANYTHING. Guess that does not, however, include small talk that illuminates Scientology practices or personalities…

      • riotgrrrl

        thats called being a grade a bully. but then being as fragile as china at the same time. i dont have the right tools to walk on eggshells, i’d be enturbulating the whole time. like hugo chavez, the great leader named after my dog, the inappropriate pooper.

        • Captain Howdy

          Hey, I’m $600 dollars richer this Xmas season thanks to Joe Kennedy, Hugo Chavez and the fuel assistance program he created for folks in,,, the United States!

          • riotgrrrl

            i love that man. man stood by his people. ‘little man with a mighty roar.’ thats why i named my dog after him. he was only three weeks old when we took him in, and right away he ran in and took over the whole house. both my other dogs were set back in the herd order by a tiny mini pinscher. hes so small but hes fierce, but loyal. hugo ‘boss’ chavez

      • Satansthetan

        Tell me about it! The only reason for my not being my evil self and blowing their minds as I would love to do is that I am being asked by “she who must be obeyed” to play nice…..I will try but it is the first time I have seen these guys since starting to read the Bunker last Jan! Plus they are lowly publics, probably not clear let alone OT.

    • Baby

      Trust me on this one.. I was thrown out of a Funeral because the Loon found out I worked in Mental Health.. ” YOUUUUUUUUUUUUU DON’T KNOW HOW EVIL SHE IS..YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT SHE HAS DONNNNNNNNNNNNNNE!!! ”

      STFU .. and I left out of respect for my BFF .. ( Her sister in deep)

      Good Luck.. ugh

    • Ardent

      That’s one tough gig, Satansthetan, one mighty big elephant in the room. I feel for you. Cheers!

      • Satansthetan

        Actually went ok, they are such nice people, I just wanted to shake them awake…soooo wanted to dig a little and open up that giant can of worms but managed (barely) not to unleash on them. I think it is true what the exes say about there being many well meaning people sucked in by the fallacious ideal of saving the world. Mostly I feel bad for them , it must suck to have to expend so much energy bullshitting to yourself all day everyday.

  • Nigel8

    It would be interesting if some psychiatrist signed up for courses and hid the *small* detail of their profession, only to befriend the staff. Then, later, revealed the fact in a nonchalant way. I wonder what the reaction would be? Screams of horror? 911 calls for an evil psych taking courses?

    • IBBy

      it would be an interesting basis for a senior thesis as well

  • villagedianne

    “John McMaster, who told me that heโ€™d departed after been left flailing in the water for a couple of hours with a broken collar bone”

    It took me a couple of minutes to realize that “flailing in the water” was not a metaphor.

    • Once_Born

      Apparrently, McMaster was ‘verboarded’ no less than five times before he left. According to another account:

      “A young lady chaplain had come to fetch McMaster from the hold because Hubbard wanted to present him with something on the poop deck to “honour all he had done.” He says he knew right away it was a Judas kiss and Hubbard accused him of betrayal. His daughter Diana (who occupied a senior position on Apollo) read out a list of “high crimes” which McMaster says were all lies, and then eight burly Scientologists flung him overboard. He broke his shoulder in the fall”.

      http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/roos/roos-books.html

      • villagedianne

        Wow. Overboarded five times. It’s always worse than you think.

        Obviously the excesses did not start with Miscavige.

        • Once_Born

          He was, apparently a very good public speaker who undertook popular lecture tours.

          Hubbard perceived this as some sort of threat to his dominance and, tragically, proceeded to persecute, and break, one of his most loyal and effective followers.

          http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/mcmaster.htm

          • Missionary Kid

            It’s kind of like what {{sweet} Uncle Joe Stalin} did to anyone who he felt threatened his primacy by having them sent to a gulag or killed. Mao Zedung did the same thing. It is the way of dictators: make sure that noone can take your place. It can lead to the kind of power struggles that took place in Co$, where a person who is able to manipulate the system to take over, but who has no good long-term managerial skills beats back any other heirs to the throne and takes over.

        • Baby

          Dianne.. We need to shout this to the Rooftops..

          THE EXCESSES DID NOT START WITH MISCAVIGE.. The EVIL Did NOT START with Miscavige..

          They have been inplace since day one Indies. ..

          I know that there are some who say.. ” Well, as long as know one is getting hurt with the Indies it’s all good..”

          There is NOTHING.. NOTHING that you can say about Scn. that doesn’t make my skin crawl. Nothing.

          It was started by an Evil Monster ConMan Liar.. Period. I hate everything it stands for.. Because it is standing on the back of those who have suffered..lost families, lives, and $.

          • villagedianne

            Ironically, though I am not an Indie or an Ex, I am one of the people who say that if the Indies want to practice Scientology and can do so without hurting people, I am OK with that. It will mean cherry-picking and throwing out much of Hubbard’s ideas and work. And that means, I hope, seeing Hubbard for who he really was.

            As a spiritual seeker myself, though I hate the label, I can see that a lot of Hubbard’s ideas did not originate with him. It’s other people’s ideas copied by, and perverted by Hubbard. Reportedly, he directly took credit for other people’s work in the early days.

            Hubbard took ideas that resonate with people, and used them for power and control. Inside every big lie there is a grain of truth. That is what makes the lie so powerful.

            What makes my skin crawl is when the Indies make fawning references to the “old man”. Ugh! Ugh!

            • Baby

              Dianne.. Well.. After you cherry pick.. and toss out everything that makes sense that others have written and he plagiarized as his own..

              There ain’t Nothin left. But the bottom line.. of BS and Evil and Greed.

              and that would be anything Hubbard Scn.

              Skin Crawl.. and the Heebie Jeebies..ugh..

            • Baby

              I upvoted you cause I love you.. but MEH.. SCN represents Hubs to me..and Hubs represents Evil.

            • villagedianne

              Well I may have to concede your point because in a recent Daily Mail article, none other than Marty Rathbun apparently agrees with you, From the article:

              He [Rathbun] said: โ€˜I spent three years methodically out lining what was good about Scientology, but how it was corrupted. I tried to differentiate between some of the core beliefs and the ends justifies the means, us versus them mentality, but I came to the conclusion that they are so interwoven, you canโ€™t separate them.

              and

              โ€˜I was trying to justify all that time I had dedicated to Scientology because I couldnโ€™t admit to myself that it had been wasted. But I am done with it now.

              It’s a really good article, they interviewed both Marty and Monique:

              Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2526525/Squirrel-Busters-sex-toys-sent-office-secret-cameras-trained-home-Ex-Scientology-leader-wife-reveal-five-year-living-hell-crossing-powerful-church.html#ixzz2oGqHw5FF
              Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

            • Baby

              Well I am in good company ? Thanks Dianne..

              I don’t think my
              hubby has ever conceded to me.. It’s funny because I used to feel the
              way that you stated above.. but the more time I gave to it.. the more I realized it had Hubs evil intention all over it.

              Thanks for the link.. quite explosive, huh? Wow..

              Now all we need is Rinder stating the same and we will be good to go..xo

          • Ardent

            Seconded with great feeling. I despise the cult. Absolutely viscerally.

            • Baby

              VISCERALLY! Hur hur 100% No wiggle room Columbo! NONE

      • OT8squared

        It is amazing how many people who advanced so far ended up becoming enemies of Hubbard and Miscavige. If it works so well, how could they turn out so poorly?

  • Baby

    Those who have followed my boring yet painful saga regarding my perforated ear drum..

    Chapter 3.. My hubby woke me up at 6am to put the ear drops in my ears.. ( I went to bed early in am..yawn..and was in pain but getting really drowsy from my ” Undisclosed Meds” ( Thanks to Howdy..)

    But when I went to bed ( up until Meds kicked in again..) I wanted to jump off the bridge to total freedom but when he woke me up.. an amazing amount of ” YUCK” was on my pillow.. the pressure and pain was cut by 75%.

    and my hearing is somewhat back ..It feels more like say when you go swimming and you have water in your ear..

    Just got back from the Dr. and he said that I still had an aggressive infection and prescribed antibiotics. ..875-125 MG Amox TR..

    Good News.. No more ” Undisclosed Meds..” ( I will leave those to the big boys..being in a Coma ain’t my bag..) Aleve will do it and if necessary a shot of Tequila.

    I stopped on the way back from the ER to my regular Dr. ( who I adore) and after he told me I looked like shit (HIS EXACT WORDS) he looked in real quick and confirmed ER Dr.’s diagnosis.

    I have an appointment Christmas Eve… My Dr. said he wasn’t worried about a Tumor..I had a complete mapping MRI for the one in my pineal gland.. and he said it didn’t show up.

    That the rupture was caused by the infection. So .. Great News.

    so thank you..thank you for your good wishes, prayers..and positive postulations..

    and Robert E..Big Wins.. HUGE .. There was a parking space in front of the ER and the Automatic door opened just when I stepped on it..

    No need to answer this.. Love xoooo Baby.. ( I feel so much better.. )

    • Espiando

      I wish I could join in on the general “foreign objects of great discomfort leaving Bunkeroos’ bodies” theme, but I’m afraid I’m reasonably healthy right now. Great news, though, on your part. The amoxicillin should kill what’s left in there. It’ll get rid of anything, probably including body thetans. Too bad Scilons can’t use it.

      • Baby

        OH shoot you are healthy now.. Dang.. ( tee hee) You just keep wearing your raincoats in the bath houses! xo .. ( and I mean it! ) I have heard about your adventures..

        • NOLAGirl

          Come sit with me and KJP Baby, we’re in the downvote club today too. : )

          • Baby

            Hahahah well I am in fabulous company Nola.. Honestly just confront and shattered me..errrrr us.. bawwwwwwwwwwwhahahhaha

            • NOLAGirl

              Ehhh..let ’em downvote. I’ve got leftover (delicious) breakfast. I’m working on pistolettes for later and I still have plenty of Bloody Mary’s. ๐Ÿ™‚

            • KJP in Portland

              I feel so confronted and shattered.

              NOT!

              Steak dinner tonight, OSA!

            • riotgrrrl

              dont we all feel fabulous! i feel like freddy, just fabulous!

            • Baby

              I love Freddy!! Thank you.. Nothing touches his talent today..

            • LeahRocks

              I am a Louisiana girl too. Your posts often make me homesick……….especially for the food!

            • NOLAGirl

              (((HUGS)))

        • MaxSpaceman

          Your downvote-follower is an especially pathetic, pitiful creature.

          Can you imagine some jerk-off man or woman spending time, on a blog, on the outer edge fringe of the Internet, who is tasked with – or tasked themselves with – downvoting your posts?

          *That* is what a part of their time is dedicated to. A wretched, empty person. Only a wretched, empty person could spend hours in a given week doing downvoting on Baby’s posts.

          • Baby

            Can you imagine.. ugh

          • Robert Eckert

            I have often hypothesized that Debbie Downer views the Bunker through a filter that conceals the content of the post. It occurs to me that a simpler explanation is that this person cannot speak at all, but is one of the Taiwanese or East European slaves, being punished for insufficient productivity.

    • Robert Eckert

      Big wins indeed! I bet you have no signs of ashthma!

      • Baby

        hahha.. I was thinking of you when I got that parking space..haha..

    • Snippy_X

      So glad to hear your gonna make it! It sounded grim there before, so this is very good news, indeed. Thx for the update, Baby. (((hugs)))

      • Baby

        Thanks Snippy boo..

        I was scared because I thought there wasn’t a light at the end of the tunnel.. I had to sleep in our guest room because our fur babies sleep with us and they couldn’t keep away from snooping in my ear.. Their little noses were going crazy.. ((HUGS to you too kitty)

        • Snippy_X

          They gotta know everything.

          • Baby

            EVERYTHING..

    • Eivol Ekdal

      Pop pop, pus pus, oh what a relief it was.

      • Baby

        YEP.. Just like that Eivol.. such relief.. Hey thank you for the video about Squabbling..hahaha hilarious..

      • riotgrrrl

        eeew !how grossly awesome that statement is!

        • Baby

          ewwwwwww ..Yes.. ha.. ( actually pus and blood.. ugh ) ugh, ugh..gross, gross..

          • riotgrrrl

            i’ve been down the road you’re on, bodily fluids and all. just remember these moments will make good days that much sweeter…. flower fer my lady!

            • Baby

              Oh riot.. thank you.. They smell fabulous! xo

    • Casabeca

      Yay! So glad you’re better!

      • Baby

        xoox much, much, much.. thanks Cassie..

    • Rita Gregory

      Yay! I glad u iz better!

      • Baby

        Thank you Rita.. I just couldn’t believe it .. Thank God.

        • Ardent

          Glad you are on the mend, Baby. I know about ear problems. Pain? Whoa!

          • Baby

            I know.. Columbo it was horrible.. I never complain about my health.. ugh.. but it was bigger than both of us! sigh

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      Awesome news Baby, so glad to hear this.

      • Baby

        Thanks Jimmy.. I was glad to HEAR anything.. Yay… I can tolerate what I’m feeling now..

        • joan nieman

          Wonderful news Baby…now you can enjoy Christmas!

          • Baby

            Absolutely Joanie.. Woo Hoo

    • Missionary Kid

      Please be careful with alcohol & antibiotics. There can be nasty results, or it can invalidate the antibiotics. Look up the drug online.

      • Baby

        Yep.. I know Kid.. and I wouldn’t risk it for anything.. xo

        • jeff

          But there is no interaction with pie!

        • Missionary Kid

          I know that to Espi I sound like a wet blanket, but I had to study the synergistic effects of drugs. Sometimes it’s great, and sometimes it kicks the shit out of a person.

          • Baby

            Oh you are the rock here Kid.. keeps us grounded. You remind me of my husband..

            ” Don’t forget your umbrella…!!! ” Looks Like Rain…

            I’ve never had an umbrella in my life.. I love the feel of rain..

            • Missionary Kid

              Usually, in California, I don’t bother with an umbrella, but when I was stationed in FL, I had to go to chow through a rainstorm that dropped 4″ in 4 hours. An umbrella was appreciated.
              I hope your ear is doing better. People often forget that there’s a fight going on between the bad and good microbes. It takes a while for the bad critters to be knocked out. Then, it’s time for recovery. I hope you can get some sleep.

            • Baby

              Sleep? OMG I passed out after getting my ear drops ( 7:00pm) and woke up at around 11 yawwwwwwwn .. Just passed out.. thanks Kid..

              OHHH you and my hubby such wimps in the rain..( tee hee)

    • Priscilla

      Glad to hear you’re better, Baby. Sorry your eardrum had to perforate. The inner ear pressure must have been incredible.

      • Baby

        OMG Priscilla.. It was it was.. I kept telling my hubby ..” You just have NO idea..” wah, wah..

        Thank you sweet doggy..

    • jeff

      But did the stoplights change for you on your way so that they were all green? If not, postulate harder on your next drive.

      • Baby

        Oh I just sailed right on.. You guys were really getting me there.. Wins for all..

    • Miss Tia

      Hooray!!! I was scrolling thru for news on twins and your ear!! ๐Ÿ™‚

      • Baby

        Wow such high priority.. The Twins my ear.. Thank you Tia Maria… xo Yes Hooray!

        • Miss Tia

          Gotta have priorities here!! ๐Ÿ™‚

          • Baby

            awwwww shucks..xo

    • ParticleMom

      What a huge relief. I’m so glad you are doing better.

      • Baby

        Particle.. It really is. Thank you so much.. xo

    • MaxSpaceman

      Phew! Your critical hours are past! thank goodness.
      So good to have you feeling better ~

      • Baby

        Thanks Max.. really.. xo

    • Verve

      I feel your pain. I’ve had ear problems all my life, even got both eardrums replaced (one twice). Now I have a permanently ruptured eardrum and need a hearing aid, lol.

      • Baby

        Awww monkey.UGH.. Well YOu know I certainly sympathize..YUCK!

        • Casabeca

          So glad to hear that you are recovering!
          <3

          • Baby

            I am on my way..xo thanks Cassie!

  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

    Time magazine did the world a service that we can’t forget. They won’t forget it either. The word was that it cost them 10 million dollars to fight Scientology’s 1/2 billion dollar lawsuit.

    Later on they wrote a very short piece on Scientology, saying that their courses could cost HUNDREDS of dollars. I wrote them a letter remarking that that is like saying a heroin addiction can use up all your pocket change. My note did not appear in the letter columns.

    Soon after they did a puff piece on Tom Cruise, a cover story which mentioned Scientology but was completely noncommittal about it. I found it years later that Cruise had the final edit on the story.

    At the turn of the millennium Time did an online pole of “greatest” things of the past century. Hubbard was way in the lead at greatest conman of the 20th Century. Time took down that part of the pole.

    So if someone actually believes that Scientology cowed the IRS, you can then see if they will actually believe what Scientology did to Time. If they believe that you can tell them what a few brave people did using, mostly, the internet.

  • Baby

    For the Bunker.. I thought this picture was beautiful and for those who don’t believe in Angels I knew you would agree with the Message that I chose..

    You guys are all important to me. You all bring a piece of your heart to the Bunker in your own way. So I will say Merry Christmas ( Cause that is what I say) and others who say Happy Holidays , Happy Chanukah.. etc.

    Or Bah Humbug.. I love you.. Baby

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Festivus for the rest of us. Don’t forget that one. Miss ya Baby.

      • Baby

        OMG YES.. hahahaa Seinfeld.. How could I forget.. Let’s all take a day and tell each other how much they suck.. I would love that..

        Just kidding.. I did that in the 8th grade and still haven’t gotten over that my best friend told me I had B. O. !!!

        • Ruby

          haha!!That’s so sad, yet funny!

          • Baby

            I was traumatized for a month..Especially when the Gym teacher kept saying.. ” Now Class A couple of you have B.O. and when you shower don’t forget your deodorant and powder..

            I thought she was talkin bout everyone else.. ( NOT ME!!! ) So that was my first time using deodorant..

            and when I go back to class reunions I smell my armpits before I walk into the room.. ha

            Yep there were 7 of us in a circle and we decided to tell the truth about ” Stuff” .. Everyone ran out of the room crying..

            I told my mom and she was horrified.. absolutely horrified.

            • Ruby

              ahhโ€ฆchildhood happy memories. ๐Ÿ™‚

            • Baby

              Yep.. Thank God the Internet wasn’t around.. I would never have made it..

    • Ruby

      Beautiful!

    • Robert Eckert

      Cool Yule, Baby!

      • Baby

        I wish I could give the creator credit.. sigh .. I ran across it randomly..

        Also I thought it was quite the spirit of the holiday with her shopping bag and all..hahahha

        OMG I am going to go to hell I just know it..

        • Bella Legosi

          Ahhh you are not going to Hell! If you do Cas will grip you tight and raise you from Perdition. He can do that you know!
          ๐Ÿ˜‰

          • Baby

            hahaha Yes he can..Bella.. hahaha

            • Bella Legosi

              Yup and that is why I am a devout Castian!

              ๐Ÿ™‚

              Misha Collins is just the Lord’s way of showing a sense of humor (which SOME religions can’t seem to grasp).

    • Bella Legosi

      Awwww! You know I love Angels, even if my concept of them is sorta slanted! It is beautiful tho!

      • Baby

        She is isn’t she Bella.. she is now my screen savor..

  • L. Wrong Hubturd

    Holy crap! Back just in time for the twins! Woohoo. I’ve been out of town, working Sea Org type hours for the past three weeks. I’m so out of the loop and kept hoping I wouldn’t miss the big day.

    Missed you all. Glad to be back.

    L. Wrong

    • Baby

      GOOD GOD MAN.. I thought it was because I seduced you and you ran screaming out of the room with your hair on fire..

      We missed you.. Ya big butt plug.. xoxo love Baby

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Nah, I’ve been in cold ass Minneapolis for a while. Never been in weather under 10deg before. -15deg sucks!

        • Valerie Ross

          You’re welcome to come visit here any time you want. You will then run back to Minneapolis and kiss the ground you cursed. People here wear long underwear under their Sunday go to meeting clothes. It’s never broken -50 yet, but with windchill . . . And this winter is barely starting. January is usually worst. We’ve only hit -46 so far this winter.

          The parade of lights featured a bunch of kids in snow pants and ski masks because it was -23 that evening. Merino wool socks are $10.00/pair and worth every penny.

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            Where the heck are you?

            • Baby

              Haven’t you learned your lesson asking people where they are from.. Jeeze..

              sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh DL here in Bunker

              That is why it is called Underground…duh.. xo

            • Valerie Ross

              On top of the Rockies. We don’t see mountain ranges out our windows because our elevation is 8,900 feet. Tree line here is 9,000-9,300 so we can still grow pine trees. Trees tend to grow at about a 25 degree angle because the wind seldom stops.

              BUT I can leave work and be on a canoe going down the river in 8 minutes. And my neighbors don’t believe any of the “fair game” COS spreads.

            • Missionary Kid

              I’m wondering what it would be like to canoe down the river for you in February.

            • Valerie Ross

              We have special onboard catalytic heaters that keep our toes toasty, but usually even the rivers are solid ice by February. They have frozen over early this year. Now it’s snowmobiling season.

              Same story different piece of equipment loaded on the trailer on the pickup.

            • Priscilla

              you can canoe in winter? huh?

            • Valerie Ross

              Until the rivers ice over, then we snowmobile.

            • kemist

            • Captain Howdy

              Your “neighbors” eat OSA as fair game

          • Interested

            I will never ever complain about England again. Brrrrr. Just freezing thinking about you. You must be hearty folk. -:))

          • riotgrrrl

            i’ve been searching for the icy hand of death. have you seen it ‘hanging around?’

            • Valerie Ross

              It left muttering something about making its home in warmer climes.

              Edit: awesome pic.

            • Robert Eckert
            • Observer

              According to Mr. Observer, I’ve got two, one on the end of each arm.

            • riotgrrrl

              lol i got cold hands too. stunted my husband with them today. talk about shrinkage lol

            • Captain Howdy

              what, what, WHAT!?!?

            • riotgrrrl

              yeah my cold hands had the opposite effect it was an attempt of wifely affection that he did not enjoy lol

          • Missionary Kid

            -50F is -45.5C

          • Priscilla

            Sounds cold enough so that you are familiar with the term “square tires”. I lived in Winnipeg for a number of years and experienced square tires every morning in winter as I drove to work. I live even further north now, but close to the mountains and I don’t think we have square tires here.

            • Valerie Ross

              We have learned to go with 5 lbs psi inflation above mfg specs on tires and 5w30 oil from September to June and avoid typical winter problems, so I don’t have to deal with square tires, or slow engine turnover in extreme cold, it’s sort of one of those word of mouth things here. Not sure where we pick it up or how we pass it on but it works.

            • kemist

              Also, having a good battery is a must. Never let the car spend a cold night with a nearly empty tank if you want it to start in the morning. And I always carry warm (the bulky spacesuit-like kind you’d put on for spending a significant amount of time outside, not the flimsy stuff people put to get to work) clothing in the car in case I break down on the road and need to walk or wait.

              I live in the great white north and over here temperatures below -20C are frequent in winter (when it’s warmer we get snow, or worse, freezing rain).

            • Valerie Ross

              LOL. Yeah, people don’t realize the “fun” of going getting ready to leave for work until they’ve started a car in sub-zero temp huh. My husband to me in the morning:

              Shovel? Check. Flares? Check. Spare Blanket. ? Check. Parka? Check. Boots? Check. Ski Mask? Check. Snow Pants? Check. Emergency food supply? Check. Cell phone charger? Check. Tow strap? Check. Trauma kit? Check.

              Bye sweetie, have a nice day at the office (2.4 miles away)

            • Missionary Kid

              It’s hotter than hell here in the summer, but you know you’re a desert rat when the temperature hits as low as 70, and you decide you need a jacket and long pants. It’s 69F today, and it’s gonna go down to 45 tonight. (20.6C and 7.2C). Brrrr. We’re such wusses.

            • stanrogers

              Personally, my favourite is the 3/8″ crust of surprisingly sharp-edged ice, dusted with a camouflage layer of that “extreme cold powder” snow, sitting on top of shin-deep powder snow (almost always precisely 1″ above the top of your tallest boots). The ice is never quite thick enough to support your weight, and never quite thin enough to break through easily sideways, so every step is, in essence, an unsuccessful below-the-knee amputation (and walking back out of the minefield in your old footprints doesn’t really help).

              Cold cold is when the moisture from your breath doesn’t merely condense, it crystallizes and falls to the ground. I am never, ever going to Ellesmere Island in late January ever, ever, ever again. Not nohow. Can’t make me.

            • Robert Eckert

              I might be curious enough to visit Ellesmere in July, but what possessed you to go there in January in the first place?

            • stanrogers

              That was when there was a Canadian Forces Station Alert, NWT, and I wore the Queen’s uniform. Not a lot of choice involved.

            • Robert Eckert

              The auks were preparing to invade?

        • Baby

          BBBBBBBrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

        • Missionary Kid

          For the people who use Centigrade, that’s -26C

    • Casabeca

      Hi Wrong, isn’t it great?

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Terrific!

    • Robert Eckert

      Your name has been evoked on multiple occasions.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Good or bad? ๐Ÿ˜‰ I’m good with either. Haha!

        • Ruby

          You were missed. ๐Ÿ™‚

        • Baby

          Oh good.. I’m glad that you are good with either..

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            Stinker!

            • Baby

              hahahhahaa Boo I missed you!

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Careful…if you say it three times, magical things can happen.

    • Sherbet

      Hey, look who’s here! Some of us have been looking for you. Glad all’s OK.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Hi Sherb. Thanks for asking about me. You guys are the best!

    • Rita Gregory

      Glad to see you sir. You were missed! ๐Ÿ™‚

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Thank you. Good to see you too.

        • DeElizabethan

          Same here LWrong, missed you. Thanks for introducing me to those special nuts, they are greeeeat!

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            Hi Dee Dee. Miss you too. That line about the nuts doesn’t sound quite right. I’m blushing! I just ate a piece of the dark chocolate, pumpkin seed bark though. Yum!

            • DeElizabethan

              That too, bought another bag, the best! The Marcona almonds, what a delight! Normally don’t care for almonds. Have a wonderful Christmas.

    • jeff

      We were all wondering if your butt-plug self was all right.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Awe, that’s nice. I was stuck, so to speak.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      call my hubby tonight or tomorrow, okay? Needs to talk to you. It’s all good. It’s a new day. It’s all good. And yeah, monkeys.

    • Miss Tia

      Yeah! You’ve been missed!

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Thx!

  • riotgrrrl

    kudos for the scientologists that stand up for what is right-

  • Cat Daddy
  • NOLAGirl

    This is totally off topic, but this past week we lost George Rodrigue. Not only a gifted artist, but a wonderful man. He will be greatly missed. I personally, will always be in love with Blue Dog. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • NOLAGirl

      Only an idiot Sciloon would downvote a dead man.

      I pity someone that desperate for stats.

  • riotgrrrl

    thank you jon attack for your support of the psychiatrists and psychologists! the more scientologists realize they arent the enemy the sooner cchr can be dismantiled. as a mental health consumer who has been gravely harmed by cchr’s lie campaigns focusing on getting us off our meds, i appreciate your message. and i’m reading that book right now! small world…

    • Priscilla

      I agree that a well-crafted regimen of psychoactive drugs keeps many of us functional and healthy. My doc once suggested that not to take an anti-depressant when I needed it was like asking a diabetic to control his/her blood sugar without insulin. It helped a great deal.

      So, I have a question about COS. I get that they prohibit psychoactive drugs, but do they disallow other medications as well? I read that at one of the Narcanons, someone ended up in hospital because they took away his insulin. Is that widespread or was that a single incident?

      • Midwest Mom

        Unfortunately, it is the norm. Remember Jett Travolta? His parents refused to treat his epilepsy with medication. It’s criminal how proper medical treatment and medications are denied to the members of this cult and to people in the Hubbard based rehab facilities. Absolutely criminal.

        • Priscilla

          Thanks, MM, Tory Christman also had that problem with them, as I recall. And yet, Tommy Davis said that medically necessary drugs were allowed. Is ANYTHING they say anywhere near the truth?

          • Midwest Mom

            Nope. Lying is a Scientology virtue.

      • riotgrrrl

        yes even tylenol is not allowed for a certain amount of time before auditing. when the cos antidrug bs rolls through the schools they tell the kiddies that ALL drugs are bad. but then they smoke and drink…

        • Priscilla

          very inconsistent! I do think that I take meds too easily (for colds, headaches, minor aches and pains), but that is a looooooooooong way from damning all meds. Dammit, I’m getting angrier and angrier.

          • riotgrrrl

            scientology is an on onion rotting from the inside. just when you’ve seen the worse you are compelled to peel the layers, just to find more rot.

    • OT8squared

      Research with MRI, CAT, PET, and EEG scans have demonstrated definite physical aspects of mental health. Biochemistry and molecular biology has shown how neurotransmitters work. Is it really believable that every researcher and research journal is part of a vast conspiracy? Can CCHR point to a single peer-reviewed article that supports Scientology’s position?

      • riotgrrrl

        no they can’t, even if tom thinks the opposite. they cray-cray… the data is there to prove us correct, but they say it doesnt exist. isnt it funny how every snake oil salesman uses the same tools of the trade- conspiracies among the experts, elitism, the galileo effect, attack instead of providing proof for their position? i want to punch people that say”don’t trust the doctors, or the scientists or the experts…’ talk about darwin awards finalists…

        • OT8squared

          When you hear, “what the experts don’t want you to know,” there’s good reason the experts don’t want you to hear it. They know it’s grade A BS.

  • IBBy

    Hey bunker, just checking in to say hello and thank you for all of the kind support I’ve been getting over the last few days. I know I havent exactly been suzy sunshine, but anyone with any experience in depression knows the drill. I’m not out of the darkness just yet, I can tell, but its nice to know any time I put my hand out, someone is there to give me a pull, and that means a lot. I’m also grateful that I can go get help (which I am) instead of being chained to an emeter and blamed for my sadness, and then regged to make it better.

    Fuck you LRH and COS. Some of your church members need legitimate help and you let them die. You are murderers and I hope someday you have to answer to it. If not to god than to a 350 lb inmate named bubba.

    • riotgrrrl

      fuck cchr. we gotta push back against them.

      • KJP in Portland

        They won’t overrun our defensive trench line. 2014: something will finish them off.

      • Espiando

        This is why I have a standard demand for Indies: if they want my support, they need to publicly disavow the definition of 1.1 and need to disavow CCHR and the anti-Psych stuff. This is why I will never support Steve Hall and his Milestone Morons; they’re still hewing the anti-Psych line in their materials. Well, that and the fact that they think Green On White is spiffy-neato.

        • riotgrrrl

          thank you for that, thats really touching. as a mental health consumer its easy to feel invisible, its nice to hear someone gives a damn about us. my greatest nightmare would be ending up like lisa. hubbard’s suggestion to exterminate me and my fellow patients come to mind anytime i see cruise or the other clams bring up nazis. thems fightin words. luckily for them, in on a pretty strong antipsychotic lol

          • Midwest Mom

            Yes! It’s unbelievably criminal how the C o S infiltrates blogs, message boards, etc, with their propaganda to dissuade people from seeing mental health professionals and from trying or taking medications,

            The C o S and CCHR only care about their agenda – unfortunately, so many people are suffering as a result – in so many ways, and the families of those suffering from mental health issues suffer, as well. This is one of the reasons that I try to educate as many people as I can about the importance of working with board certified physicians who work as a team so they can effectively treat each person the most effective way possible, including therapy and appropriate medications

            No one should have to suffer because of L. Ron Hubbard’s extreme hatred toward the medical, psychiatric and.psychological profession. No one.

            • Anonymous

              Anyone that wants to take a stab at one should visit HumanSpirit. He’s denied being a Scientologist for years and might actually not be, but he’s never denied his sympathy to CCHR and pushes their propaganda aggressively.

              http://www.topix.com/forum/med/psychiatry

            • riotgrrrl

              the damage from the dyskenesia was so great, i became a shut in for three years. when your shaking like that, with how young i look, people dont understand. i felt like the relative the family keeps in the attic. i couldnt even drink water without a straw, and the simple act of pouring milk was panic inducing since i couldnt keep the cup still and get the milk in the cup. i was always in a panic, rocking all day. my tongue would stick out of my mouth and my face twitched. at the time i was singing in my band again, doing stuff with friends and then it stopped. i became very psychotic and paranoid and eventually the police had to take me in. those sites try to upset patients and to what end? they want us dead is all. im saying it point blank, because they dont offer any other ‘assistance’ but their jackass ‘history of psychiatry’ diatribe. they know what theyre doing. they want us to go nuts and not get help for it. theres only one way thatll end.

    • Baby

      PULLIN.. PULLIN your hand.. Been there.. Thank God for Paxil.. but that said yep still sets in when it overrides the pill.

      It’s difficult to explain, huh? Like Oh just get up and go to lunch.. Or go shopping… Or just get up period.. and sleeping is better than life. Yep..

      Glad you are getting help IBBY.. and what’s the best thing about the Bunker..

      YA DON’T HAVE TO BE SUZY SUNSHINE FOR ANY OF US.. We are good at Keepin it Real..

      Hope your dark curtain lifts soon darlin.. We have a lot here who will pull you up when needed..

      Or snuggle with ya when ya don’t want to be pulled.. xoxox We love you Ibby..

      Edited to add.. Yep.. Agree with your last paragraph 100%

      • LeahRocks

        My drug of choice is Prozac. Doesn’t cure it, but keeps me from falling into the abyss. We are here for you…

        • Rita Gregory

          Zoloft here. Thank you big pharma.

          • Eivol Ekdal

            The odd accidental shock when working on equipment in the lab keeps me on an even keel.
            http://makegif.com/gp00.gif

            • riotgrrrl

              what is that? you do science?

          • DeElizabethan

            I got a script for that but am holding off. It’s a good one eh?

            • Rita Gregory

              For me it has been a literal life saver! Prozac stopped working years ago. The Zoloft stopped working after about 10 yrs. Went on Lexapro, which stopped working after a year. I went back on Zoloft at a higher dose than before and it works beautifully for me.

            • DeElizabethan

              Oh just looked at my script and it’s Lexapro generic, not Z. I’ll give it a try. Thank you Rita..

            • Rita Gregory

              I liked the Lexapro generic while it worked. I hope it works for you.

            • Baby

              Give it awhile to kick in Dee.. You will love it.. xo ..

      • riotgrrrl

        ive got several different things here, lamictal (to keep me from raging and paranoia), prestiq (for my depressive episodes), klonipin (as needed for freak outs) and a nifty new antipsychotic named saphris. im basically a professional patient lol

        • Espiando

          Lamictal stopped working for me years ago. I’ve been through Paxil and a couple of others before Cymbalta. My problem is getting a prescription for it. Well, we’re switching insurance companies after the beginning of the year, and maybe this one will let me have it without going through eight billion hoops. Personally, I want to stick with it because it works, and it also helps with the diabeetus.

          Klonopin is truly a wonder drug. I love it, I’ve loved it for years, and I want to father its children.

          Have you been on Zyprexa before Saphris? I want an opinion on it before I look into the possibility of switching?

          • Missionary Kid

            Espi. This is just my opinion, but one of the things about these meds is that they are very individual acting. What’s good for me may not be good for you.

            • Espiando

              You keep saying that. I keep ignoring that. I love being a guinea pig for new drugs. Either they work and I float on clouds made of candyfloss, or it doesn’t work and I physically harm people with a built-in alibi. Either way, I win.

            • Baby

              One thing that absolutely didn’t work for me was .. Paxil WellButrin Combo.. OMG totally zombified.. ( and NOT in a fun way)

              It sucked the soul right out of me..

            • riotgrrrl

              oh my god i tried that but not in one pill combined. they thought i was stoned.

            • Baby

              Hahahha I did not have it in one pill combined.. 2 separate pills, And I WAS STONED.

            • Bella Legosi

              I was put on Wellbutrin and Trazadone in high school. The wellbutrin kept me awake for 2 days. My high school thought I was tweeking. A week or so later when I could get sleep I started showing signs of being psychotic(?) I came up with a way to kill my mom’s piece of shit boyfriend and not get caught (so I thought lol). It scared my friend and she told me to make an appointment and tell the doc. I did and she took me off Wellbutrin all together and trazdone and put me on Halcion.The only reason I was given wellbutrin was to quit smoking.

            • Baby

              Scary shit Bella.. The funny thing is I was smoking like a chimney on wellbutrin.. ugh..

            • Bella Legosi

              I almost quit when I was on that stuff cuz the smoke tasted like wet nickels or blood. I would smoke half and put out and smoke the rest after 3 or 4 hours. Which is good cuz I am a cig per hour smoker, unless I am sick. Wellbutrin is something I will refuse to take anymore.

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              The one thing I remember most from my short time on Wellbutrin is that made it damn near impossible to [unsuitable for polite conversation].

            • Baby

              ewwwww… Yuck.. wet nickels or blood.. gross..ha.. I would never take it again either.. ugh..

            • Missionary Kid

              Hahahaha. You are one sick individual. ๐Ÿ˜‰
              It’s like the tale I’d tell students when I was substitute teaching.
              “Remember that if you guys bother me and I go postal, all I have to do is tell the judge I was a substitute teacher”

              “He’ll just bang the gavel and say, ‘Not guilty by reason of insanity.'”

            • riotgrrrl

              i also take fish oil ,and that has greatly reduced my rages on a daily basis. i saw somewhere they are making a mood stabilizing drug based on the fish oil. im so excited for that.

            • Midwest Mom

              Just a reminder that fish oil is a blood thinner, so it’s always best to ask your doctor if it’s all right to take, just in case it interacts or interferes with other medications.

            • riotgrrrl

              yes folks she is correct! i always take every new med and vitamin into the docs so all my medical team knows what i am taking. even analgesics. learned this the hard way when i got my liver problem.

            • riotgrrrl

              you’re bipolar right? since i can tell you’re smart, (you do science!) i figure its either that or schitzophrenia (the crazy of choice for geniuses). look! its cern porn!

            • Espiando

              Type II Bipolar, to be exact. That’s why it’s been impossible-to-tough to treat over the years.

            • riotgrrrl

              yes me too, among other issues. it is damn hard to treat. but you know our type is known for being extremely intelligent and exceptional individuals. its a blessing and a curse.

            • MaxSpaceman

              Type 1, Bipolar Mixed States here – or as Kay Redfield Jamison nearly insists it be called, “manic-depressive disorder”, type 1, mixed states. (Which is different than Bipolar Type 1, Rapid Cycling.

              Been on everything – as in virtually everything – over the years and years, as my first hypo-manic episode was at 16 years of age. And after everything stopped working, lo’ many years later — as it is always trial and error with manic depressive disorder — I made a decision. Before that, two things: (1) if one has Bipolar disorder, it is vital to not take an S S R I anti-depressant, as that can very easily lead one into a manic or hypo-manic episode; your psycho-pharmacologist will know this and recommend something appropriate, and (2) *every* psych med works differently and in different doses for everybody.

              I decied I would try to handle my behavioral health disorder (Bipolar Type 1, Mixed States) without medication. All of it had failed over the course of time. I had matured, gone well into my lifetime, and was *still* not in control of things, as I would liked to have been.

              I therefore decided that if the sh1t wasn’t helping me, was failing me, and I was still having difficulty occassionally with life situations that I would have thought could have been handled by me if the medication had been working, I established that I would learn all I could about stability/wellness/mental health recovery. And body/mind things– some yoga and mindfullness and meditation.

              Then, I weaned myself off all psychotropic medications and stopped them. Three years ago. I have bee able to make it work. I am lucky, I think.

              [ mixed states: http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/articles/mixed-states-their-manifold-forms-part-1http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/mood-disorders/mixed-states-their-manifold-forms-part-2 ]

            • MaxSpaceman

              Alternatives to Zyprexa to consider are Abilify and Geodon, both 2nd generation anti-pys.

            • Espiando

              Abilify didn’t work for me when I tried it. And Seroquel worked too well.

          • riotgrrrl

            paxil made me feel and look stoned, which was bad because as an executive-on-loan at a tech company, you need to not look high all the time. cymbalta was very hard on my liver (i’ve got an enlarged liver from damage sustained by taking crappy vitamins) but the prestiq is ok. i have the diabeetus too, (mexican genes lol) i didnt know paxil helped with that. cool… yes the klonipin helps me sometimes i lose track of reality and get paranoid and anxious, and it helps with the panic i feel from the tardive dyskenesia. klonipin has helped me get on with being a mom and wife instead of ending back at the mental health spa. now i was on zyprexa years ago, and it made me really sick, but thats just me, i heard others swear by it. before the saphris, i was on abilify, which was awesome until i stopped taking it suddenly and i got the dyskenesia. word of warning to anyone who takes abilify, if you feel unexplained urges to move talk to your psych doc about changing or lowering, AND DONT LISTEN TO CCHR AND STOP TAKING IT. the nazis didnt make abilify, and the psychs arent trying to mindmeld you lol

            • Midwest Mom

              I’m so sorry to hear about your liver damage from vitamins. Thank you, riotgirl, for sharing your very personal experience resulting from the use of dangerous vitamin supplements.

              I wish you good health in every way! ๐Ÿ™‚

            • Espiando

              No, it’s Cymbalta that helps with the diabeetus. Shame about your liver not being able to take it. Abilify never did the job for me, but Zyprexa gives me smooth nights of sleep. My only problem is that it tends to make me ignore my alarm.

            • riotgrrrl

              the cymbalta was also for my fibromyalgia, but im used to the fibro now so i deal without it lol

            • Bella Legosi

              True! When I worked at that AFS one client was on Ablilify. He was a catatonic schizophrenic w/ Parkinsons. He had muscle spasms a lot, for which they gave him enough ativan to kill a horse and it still didn’t calm it down. This was back in 2004. The docs thought it was just his parkinsons, but I am thinking the Abilify had a lot to do with it. Since the owner was a crazy ass $cilon and the client couldn’t talk, he never got to talk to the doc about it. Hopefully when he went into real assisted living they took him off that shit.

          • Bella Legosi

            Zyprexa interacts with most of all drugs. I dispensed it when I worked at the AFS. Be careful. Zyprexa has been linked to causing type II diabetes. It was used on my client for anorexia (side effect is hunger). In a home where these people took a cup full of meds, with the Zyprexa client she had only 2 pills. I must emphatically suggest you research this med before even thinking of switching, as a change in any med can cause your CBG levels to change too.

            • Espiando

              Well, I’m lucky that I contracted the diabeetus thanks to another psych med before I got switched to Zyprexa.

            • Bella Legosi

              I had a HIV + friend who was put on Zyprexa and a host of other psych meds which he should have not been given due to the interactions. He ended up breaking into a neighbor’s home, naked, eating their ice cream. I believe the cocktail they had him on was Zyprexa, Wellbutrin, Depekote, Paxil, K Pin, painmeds, and his HIV cocktails. Once they realized what Zyprexa does with other meds they took him off and gave him something else. He hasn’t had another incident yet.

              I am sorry you got that from a psych drug. My dad was taking the diabetes drugs that cause cancer and he just had a big cancer scare. They switched his meds around and now are considering putting him on painkillers that wont affect his liver. Best of luck to ya man. I feel for ya.

            • Espiando

              Yeah, good old Seroquel. Never had any problems with serum glucose until I was put on that. Combine it with its deserved reputation as Zombie In A Pill, and it’s something I’m never touching again.

            • Rita Gregory

              Seroquel is awful. Effexor is satan in a pill.

            • Espiando

              Tried Effexor as well. And I absolutely agree with you a hundred percent.

            • Bella Legosi

              Seroquel has been showing up in Portland on the black market. My cousin and psudo brother were popping it til I bitched and educated them that is NOT for recreation. I dispensed that drug to some clients. It worked alright. There were no scary incidents or violent outburts. The client in question would rather have had a benzo but she was black balled as a “med seeker” so no Narcs. Kinda sad really.

          • Bella Legosi

            Klonopin is a wonder drug! However, whenever I take it I start cleaning like mad! Helps with my fucked back, but goddamn is the house clean after I take them! Glad it works for you. My mom becomes a virtual SheDevil when she takes it. Thank gawd they put her on ativan instead. Ativan is okay if you don’t want to really think about anything. That has been my experience with Ativan. I take ativan when I get really bad panic attacks. I have found that it works best for panic attacks and the KPin or Valum work way better when I throw my back out (like right now! I hate to bend over or lift anything and usually will not)

          • MaxSpaceman

            Zyprexa comes with massive weight gain for most, Espi.
            Be careful if you have weight/diabetes issues.

            • Espiando

              Fortunately, I don’t really have weight issues. Stocky but not overweight. In fact, I weigh the same as when I got out of the Army 22 years ago. I’m also on meds to control the diabetes and seem to test out pretty well on my A1Cs. I think that the Zyprexa is trying to make up for the Seroquel causing the diabetes in the first place.

            • MaxSpaceman

              Abilify is worth a look.

        • ParticleMom

          Depression is a nightmare, and this time of year seems to bring it out. Try to be kind to yourself. It is the opposite of Scientology – it is never as bad as you think.

          • riotgrrrl

            i have seasonal affective disorder, so my bipolar is on the depressive side this time of year. my hubby found me a nifty therapy light at walgreens, and its on the web. its called the ‘happy light’. it works within ten minutes. i feel a rush of happiness and energy. but dude watch it because within ten minutes you might have to poo, its like coffee. vitamin d is also beneficial, as long as your doc agrees.

            • ParticleMom

              My mother is bipolar but it seems to have skipped me. I have delayed sleep phase syndrome (and the 2yo has it worse than me – 4am bedtime?!?) and tried a light box without luck. Vitamin D does help for both sleep and depression.

              What has been a miracle for me is supplements that support the adrenals (specifically Adrenal Health from Gaia Herbs). It works better than celexa and klonipin ever did.

            • LeahRocks

              Omg! I just recently figured out that I have delayed sleep syndrome. I would love any advice! My dr. Recently put me on Tramadol and Zanax and that has helped with my severe Restless Leg Syndrome, but I still can’t fall asleep until most people are waking up! I hate it! I lose whole days!

            • ParticleMom

              I hate to say it, but nothing puts me on normal-person time and I was diagnosed 9 years ago. I tried light boxes, strictly moving my sleep back (or forward, tried both ways), meds, on and on…The adrenal support I mentioned above has helped the most. Also, pregnenolone and DHEA, but those should really only be used with a doctor monitoring your levels.

              Methyl b-12 can be very helpful with restless legs (not regular b-12.)
              Edited for spelling

            • riotgrrrl

              i fall asleep early and wake up at 3:30 or 4 am every day. its crazy but i get more done lol

          • DeElizabethan

            I’m in that club! Never as bad as it I think, thanks! Nice to have friends that understand.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      IBBy: Like Baby says, “YA DON’T HAVE TO BE SUZY SUNSHINE FOR ANY OF US.. We are good at Keepin it Real..” I love having you as a great reality check here on the Bunker and you know we are all with you – you are not alone. Just hang in there, remind yourself it won’t last forever.

      • Midwest Mom

        Hear, hear! IBBY, Please know that you are in our thoughts and that much love and support is always here for you. Here’s hoping that your doctors can get you back on track and feeling better very soon! You deserve it! x o x o

    • Sherbet

      Yep. I know the drill. We’re here for you.

    • NOLAGirl

      Sending you lots of love & hugs IBBy. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • riotgrrrl

      yes ibby, free minds said something key, it wont last forever. in my downest moments, it feels like if i dont die it will always be this bad, i cant see my way out or find strength to move. its a nightmare feeling, and it makes the body more unable to heal. i had to start meditating and i studied buddhism and one lesson stood out to me, the fact that nothing is permanant, no moment, no emotion… when i was a teen i attempted suicide several times, luckily i had psychiatry to save me from myself, but in those moments when i made that horribly wrong decision, if i would have known about this buddhist principle i wouldnt have fallen that far as i ended up. if i could have seen my son, my husband and all the times that i laugh and i feel happy, i would have been more strong in myself, held against the storm. just remember, your stronger than you think. depression is a constant long storm that can only make you stronger if you survive it. the way out for me? little things. i make a point to get dressed every day and brush my hair. i do the dishes, and i look at funny pictures. and i eat a square meal and make sure to pet my dogs a lot. just dont let it stop you in your tracks. just do these little things and treat yourself if you can.

      • Midwest Mom

        You are also a lovely and witty gal! I’m so glad you’re here with us and I’m extremely grateful that those attempts, made in the darkest hours of your past, didn’t result in the world losing you and losing out on your many wonderful gifts. You’re too valuable to lose! x o x o

        • riotgrrrl

          the moments today when im happy, and feel the love of my family and watch my son grow, i feel so lucky. its like surviving any near death experience i guess. i turned 39 this year and i was so happy, everyone was like, “why?’ becasue i’m still here. when im 50 and so on i’ll be proud to say it, being old is a badge of honor ๐Ÿ™‚ i’m as content as this guy–

    • OrangySky

      Ibby, I think it was RiotGrrrrl who posted this the other day but I had to capture it and I’m reposting it FOR YOU….because I’ve been where you’ve been and am never that far from that place in my mind, even when my neurons are firing happily normally. That’s ’cause, as you know, once you’ve been to the black hole, it’s impossible to forget it…and to not be terrified of going back there again (and maybe not making it out the next time around..)

      If you need to talk, give a shout. And ain’t it grand you can get the help you need, when you need it?
      Blessings, xo

    • Scream Nevermore

      Poor Bubba! What has he done to us that we keep wishing that Diddy Davey gets foisted on him?? ๐Ÿ˜‰

  • KJP in Portland

    What’s the latest on Monkey???

    • Kitz

      Haven’t heard anything from/about her at all yet.

      • aquaclara

        When you do, pleeeeeze let her know we are all sending her our best!

        • Kitz

          I will

      • Sandy

        Kitz. Who has her dog? Her folks?

        • Kitz

          No idea

    • riotgrrrl

      has the stork arrived with the cellophane yet?

  • Rita Gregory

    Everybody say Monkey Knickers Bunker Babies three times as fast as you can! ๐Ÿ™‚

  • Ondine Green

    โ€˜I can accept a certain level of
    harassment. I was part of the church for 35 years and to an extent I
    believe you reap what you sow, but they have targeted Monique for years
    now and we need to do something about it…

    Even after leaving Scientology, Marty
    still upheld certain aspects of its teachings and tried to defend it.
    But now he has completely given up.

    He said: โ€˜I spent three years methodically out lining what was good about
    Scientology, but how it was corrupted. I tried to differentiate between
    some of the core beliefs and the ends justifies the means, us versus
    them mentality, but I came to the conclusion that they are so
    interwoven, you canโ€™t separate them….

    I was trying to justify all that time I
    had dedicated to Scientology because I couldnโ€™t admit to myself that it
    had been wasted. But I am done with it now.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2526525/Squirrel-Busters-sex-toys-sent-office-secret-cameras-trained-home-Ex-Scientology-leader-wife-reveal-five-year-living-hell-crossing-powerful-church.html#ixzz2o9Jis8Hn

    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

    • riotgrrrl

      that pacman has leveled up. dude i just realized i live like 15 minutes away from marty. im slow on my cognations…

      • Missionary Kid

        Not slow, just looking at other aspects of the story. Are you close to the courthouse?

        • riotgrrrl

          i am about 45 minutes away from new braunfels, thats where its at right?

          • Missionary Kid

            Yup, that’s where it is.

          • Midwest Mom

            Derek lives in Austin! How cool! You aren’t very far from him!

            • riotgrrrl

              my baby sister lives there now. she just started chemo so im going over there sometimes. i hadnt been since the hubby stopped playing in his bands. i like austin. its weird.

  • KJP in Portland

    You’re a mean one, Mr. Grinch…

    You’re a bad banana withe a greasy black heel…

    You’re a monster, Mr. Grinch…

    I wouldn’t touch you with a 39 and a half foot pole…

    You’re a foul one Mr. Grinch…

    Your heart is filled with nasty dirty socks….

    Stink, stank, stunk!…

    Your soul is an over appaling dungheap…

    …with arsenic sauce!

    1-866-xSEA-ORG

    • Miss Tia

      I’m gonna comment on behalf of my BFF Eddie who wouldn’t like the Grinch used in such a manner—in comparison with the Co$! Eddie wouldn’t take kindly to take and is quite defensive of the Grinch. And he had a collection of over 1000 Grinch items that he lost when his house burned down.

  • media_lush

    Enty’s piece on Cruise

    • Sarah James

      Tom Cruise is the ultimate Scientology tool.

      Nashville on wwp has a new post “having a happy baby”. Flagged with glee.

    • Missionary Kid

      You don’t have to swear on a bible.

      • ParticleMom

        Can you swear with your hand on the L’s course book?

        • Missionary Kid

          Probably, If you consider it sacred.

  • Graham

    11pm here in the UK. Before I call it a day, just another gentle reminder:

    Keep publicising, keep donating to the Wise Beard Cause:http://www.gofundme.com/5ty4fw

  • KJP in Portland

    50 degrees here. It was snowing yesterday morning. Maybe I’ll break out the shorts and walk the doggies.

    My 28 lb cat NEEDS a walk too. I wish I get her trained on a leash. I might actually try that because she is not aggressive at all, and she doesn’t exactly run like a greyhound either. She is 10 now, and I dearly want her around for several more years, but she’s as big as a large Thanksgiving turkey.

    • Zana

      LOL. I have a cat like that, too. He eats everything. He clears the plates that my other 3 cats leave behind. If he sees something he likes he whops the other fur guys out of the way and just starts lapping up their dish. Nothing personal, mind you. It’s just what he wants. He’s pretty adorable. He’s not 28 lbs yet… but I’m not sure how to keep his weight down. They are wonderful, aren’t they.

      • KJP in Portland

        Indeed!

    • Priscilla

      That’s 10C. Lovely weather.

      • KJP in Portland

        50 is fine after the 22’s we had early last week.

        • Priscilla

          Its -20 C here (-4 F). Thankful for a well-insulated home, an excellent car heater, warm clothes, etc., etc. The snow underfoot has a very distinctive sound. The colder it gets, the louder it crunches. I like that sound, actually!

    • Jo

      A cat feeder ball would help your cat get more active. How many cats have you got?

      • KJP in Portland

        We are up to 4 again; a 16 yr. old, my big 10 yr. old, a 2 yr. old and a 1 yr. old. And 3 goggies! Happy house!

    • Sandy

      Bragger! We’ve got 20 deg at the moment, but gonna get colder…

    • EnthralledObserver

      31 degrees C… (87F) here… and it’s just morning so far…

      • Ardent

        I think you live near me.

    • NOLAGirl

      It’s 73 degrees here. ๐Ÿ™‚

      *ducks to avoid flying snowballs* hehehehe

      • Midwest Mom

        We have a depth of 31″ of snow in my yard. More snow tonight!

        • NOLAGirl

          My goodness. Hope you’re bundled up, warm & safe tonight M.M. ๐Ÿ™‚

        • KJP in Portland

          We’re the joke of the Midwest. They shut the whole Metro Area down when we get 3 inches of snow here. I think it’s all the Californians that moved here. My parents never had a single problem driving to work or the store in 6, 7″ of snow.

          Shutting down is a new phenomenon here. It came with the Californians…

    • Rita Gregory

      Freezing rain with snow to follow here in the midwest. Pretty but deadly. We are staying in today.

  • EnthralledObserver

    Babies… are there babies????????????????? Going to search…

    • Espiando

      Not yet. We’ve been whiling the time away discussing drugs, the weather (and we are sew jelly about it being your summer right now), and playing with a few Scilons at the Hollyweird Reporter. Just your typical day at the Bunker.

      • EnthralledObserver

        Oh, okay… thanks for saving me too much searching.
        I have no air-con, so don’t be too envious… I told my hubby we ARE getting one this year because I hear it’s going to be a LONG HOT one.
        Drugs… I don’t know much, I don’t really indulge except when necessary.
        All in all… it sound like it was a good decision to go to bed.
        I hope Monkey is doing okay…

        • Espiando

          It’s not the illegal type, but the prescription type. Baby’s eardrops finally worked and she’s on some heavy antibiotics for the infection. Riot and I are trading off experiences on various psych meds. It’s something to make the time pass by until we hear more about MK Plus Two.

          • ParticleMom

            Good to hear Baby’s eardrops are working. What a nightmare.

        • Sandy

          EO – we are all waiting for word – ANY word – but so far radio silence …

        • Rita Gregory

          I konked out right around the time you did. Hopefully we will hear the babies have arrived soon.

        • KJP in Portland

          Your longest sunlight day of the year is today; our shortest…today ๐Ÿ™

  • Bella Legosi

    Damn it the deposition of Little Boots is screwing with my promise to Uncle Cosmo! Way back I had made a promise not to watch porn, engage in J&D, and something else IF DM was deposed! I am going to wait for confirmation before I start this “fast”!

    • EnthralledObserver

      I commend your dedication to the cause… I would have just, you know, watered the lawn or washed the car or something, like you do if you want it to rain…

      • Bella Legosi

        hehe well when I make a deal with some Creative Force I want my offering to be something He/She will raise an eyebrow to or something that says “she is willing to sacrifice!” (Brought up Catholic what do you expect?) And another part really thought the deposition would never happen. So I rolled the dice………Ill keep my word……but until then I am watching my porn and I continue to degrade Co$ whenever possible.

        • OrangySky

          Do your fast AFTER he’s been deposed! That’ll cinch it! Or – do it on the very same day.

          • Bella Legosi

            ohhhhh good thought! Thank you! Portland is like the land of Porn and Strippers. I have been exposed to that for so long I can go with out, but ever since I discovered you can watch it on a smart phone…..:D but I sold the smart phone to my lil bro ๐Ÿ™ so it’s almost like I am doing half the fast already teehee

      • KJP in Portland

        You just described Oregon. Every time we wash our cars (except Aug-Sep) it rains afterward.

        • Rita Gregory

          No one needs it to RAIN in Oregon! ๐Ÿ™‚

          • KJP in Portland

            Well, it DOES rain 10 1/2 months of the year LOL! (that’s why our skin is so nice)

            • Rita Gregory

              Also why your skin is so pale! ๐Ÿ˜‰ I’m pretty pale too. The allergies pretty much keep me indoors.

        • EnthralledObserver

          Rain Dance! Works every time.

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      That makes me think of Kramer from Seinfeld….the first one out of the self pleasure contest.

      http://youtu.be/BwH__x6jV6A

      • Bella Legosi

        lol now that you mention it, I do too!

  • Lars Rosenquist

    Reading the headline “For Scientologists, thinking outside the church can feel like breaking a taboo” makes me think of a time when I was still drinking the Coll Aid: Jazz-festival in Copenhagen in 2004 – me and a friend – also a $cion – went downtown to check out the music and have some fun. I remember feeling BAD about drinking a beer, because I was supposed to attend a course on Academy next day – Thinking outside the “church” is simply living your life !

  • Bella Legosi

    lol I am still laughing at the Boots post! That was my first post reading of the day! lol Thank god for coffee and painkillers. Listening to L Ron in waking moments is just too much with out them! Now I feel like an ADD case between posts and comments! AHHHHHHH This is what happens when I take Bunker vacations! I don’t think I am going to do that anymore folks!

    • Missionary Kid

      You know that Monkeyknickers went to the hospital early this morning. No news yet.

      • Bella Legosi

        Yes, I am trying to catch up on posts and comments! I hope all goes well and she is doing ok! I wonder which hospital she is in. I was in the ER a couple nights ago, but was freed after 10 hours!

        lol did you get my email? you dirty old man?

        • Missionary Kid

          I just included the picture that came with the joke. I didn’t even look at it that closely. After you sent me the email, I realized it was something someone had grafted it on to the joke. Oh, well. The joke was the best part.

          I think MK is probably at a hospital closer to Kitz and Michael.

          • Bella Legosi

            Oh ok lol cuz that pic shows up in all the emails next to your name. Thought I would let you know…….don’t know if you use it to talk to your kid or what not. Those moments are awkward. My dad had found a bunch of pix of me that I had sent to my ex when he was in Iraq and gave me the riot act for it. I told him I was serving my country and we have never spoke of it again. But, they still don’t ever want me to use the webcam ever again lol

            • Missionary Kid

              I sent you two emails from the two accounts I usually use. I also sent them to myself. The picture didn’t come with the email. Neither email showed up with the picture. Somehow, you attached that picture to your email inbox so that when I send you an email, your inbox pastes that picture to my email.

              It’s on your end, not mine.

            • KJP in Portland

              ๐Ÿ™‚

            • Rita Gregory

              LOL!

            • KJP in Portland

              Ah yes, I remember the late night joys of webcamz several years back as a single dude between marriages. Sigh…

        • KJP in Portland

          I just started to notice your absence Bella. I hope your ER trip went fine and you’re not too banged up. I think I have it narrowed down to 2 hospitals, maybe 3. Not Portland…You have to look in the direction of Tacoma St. and go on another 105 miles or so. Good code?

          • Bella Legosi

            Thank you K! I think I know which one. But MK and I still have not met up yet. I’ll wait for her return and see her and the little ones in person. I love babies and little kids.

            Yeah, I quit my job over the management practices and not being paid like they are supposed to pay me. I am getting a lawyer involved. Found out I cant contract with the clients I did have cuz of a non compete clause for 2 years I had to sign to get the job.

            The ER trip went ok. Only one blown IV site. I got Obamacare starting the new year, so hopefully I can get the diagnostics I need done. My doc is thinking that on top of having abnormal hormones I may have endometriosis outside the uterus. That would explain the loss of appetite and problems with my bowels. I am on Cipro again ๐Ÿ™ I think my doc is going to have me get a hysterectomy soon, which means no kids, ever. That bothers me, but I knew I couldn’t have them before. The reality of it sets in when you know 100% its never going to happen. I see my doc soon so I will know more by then. Til then I have to take my antibiotics and watch for my temp to go down. If it doesn’t I go back in for IV antibiotics!

            • Sandy

              ..

            • KJP in Portland

              Check with BOLI too, if you haven’t already. You might have a wage claim.

            • Bella Legosi

              Oh I have a huge wage claim. That is what I have been working on the past month. But my work is not allowing me to view my own time card info, that is why I got a lawyer involved and have submitted an official complaint with the state too.

            • KJP in Portland

              Smoking gun! Hiding your wage info. I hope your lawyer gets you a NICE settlement!

            • Bella Legosi

              I have schedules printed that amount to an inch thick! I went thru ONE pay period in question and came out with 87 hours. I am do sooooo much OT it isn’t even funny!

            • KJP in Portland

              I’m sorry about that situation. Maybe with the new Obamacare, you can find a fertility specialist that can hit a home run or two for you. Are you on the OHP right now? If you are, they suck. I’d hang in there for the REAL insurance all of will get after the 1st.

            • Bella Legosi

              I doubt OHP will cover fertility. I think they would kinda consider it something like cosmetic. That is why OHP wouldn’t pay for dentures, it is cosmetic. They don’t think about how difficult it is for someone without teeth to get hired! My OHP starts on the 1st of Jan. I have some other issues too that have taken too long to deal with so I am looking at some surgery’s.

              I appreciate the suggestion, but these probs I have had for the past 15 or so years. I think I am past the point of being able to even conceive anymore (2 miscarriages). I am a sex abuse survivor and from the people who I have talked to who went thru what I did at the age I did, tell me that screwed their fertility up too. It gets to me I can’t have any of my own, but I know there are kids out there who do need loving homes and I am ok with adopting (there is no criminal record with me or my boyfriend). I am gonna be the Forever Auntie kids run to when they want to get away with shit! lol I am ok with that! ๐Ÿ™‚

            • KJP in Portland

              Oh my, I never knew that! I’m sorry there are so many creeps in the world and you had to be the victim of one. They stand even lower than Miscavige. I got lucky. No one in my family or neighborhood (Kenilworth) was ever that way. I got real lucky. And, I DID know friends from school (Grout, Cleveland) that later in life said they were abused.

              And I know how shitty the Oregon Health Plan is. But after the 1st don’t you get to pick a plan from the Care Oregon list? Even if you two have low-income, you should still be able to get a free or super cheap REAL medical plan, or at least I thought.

              I’m on VA medical until February when my real medical kicks in. And get this! I’m still going to have to pay $400 a month out of my pay for it (ouch).

              I have at least 1 surgery on the backburner, maybe 2. I do hope that with all this new medical care stuff that you can get in and get your surgeries, dentures, etc. and get a much more comfortable life out of it.

              Lastly, adoption? You bet! I’d do it. My 1st wife and I were ‘thinking about it’ the year before she ran out on me and the kids. Many, many, many sweet children out there, both challenged and ‘normal’. You get extra points for being open to that!

            • Bella Legosi

              Thank you for such kind words K. There was a time where I hid that part of my life or never spoke of it. I don’t anymore. I speak out. You never know who may be reading these comments. If I can talk about it openly and with confidence; maybe someone out there will read it and choose to speak out about their own experience too. To keep abuse like that hidden causes so much more damage to an already damaged person. I grew up in the Abernathy/Hosford area. You may know my family or even my mom and uncle!

              I enrolled in a care plan already. My case was fast track approved back in Oct. I didn’t need to screw with the site that doesn’t work, thankfully.

              When I was a teenager I was completely against bringing children into the world. My childhood wasn’t the greatest and when I was 15 I had little patience for crying kids and knew that wasn’t a good thing if I was considering having kids. Thankfully I have grown up a bit since then and would love to have kids of my own, but am realistic. Even when I didn’t want kids of my own I always said adoption would be better, because there are so many out there that do need loving homes. Now adoption may be my only recourse. I am open to adopting kids outside my race and have considered adopting child(ren)that are challenged. The “challenged” spectrum is quite broad tho. It could mean developmental disabilities, physical disability, or they were drug/alcohol babies. I am no where near stable enough in life to adopt a ‘normal’ let alone a kid who needs more care. But, I am getting there damn it! lol Adopting a newborn is hard to come by. They seem to be in demand. But, hey time will tell. And you never know. The more I say I can’t have babies may jinx me into having one (or if I am lucky two).

              Thanks so much for the kind words. It is much appreciated!

            • Ardent

              Wow Bella. I sure hope the new Obamacare can help you get the treatment you need. I really feel for you. Much love and support coming your way!

            • Bella Legosi

              Thank you very much for the support! I have high hopes for ObamaCare. This will be the first real care I have had in over 10 years! Til then I keep on keeping on! You can only do what you can only do and all that jazz right? It is keeping positive when shit is negative that is the hard part. Everything else I just sorta roll with!

        • OrangySky

          Welcome back sweet heart.

          • Bella Legosi

            Thank you hun. I miss Tony’s wonderful world of Entheta filled with some of the neatest and sweetest people on the net! When it rains it pours in my life and it has been pouring for the last two months ๐Ÿ™ but I got all the time in the world to devote to the Bunkerites and looking for a job that won’t screw me on pay!

      • OT8squared

        And the OSA is scouring every hospital for a woman giving birth to twins so they can finally track down the SP known as Monkeyknickers.

        • WhereIsSHE

          OSA can’t handle the MonkeyKnickders TWINS!!

          Reuters) – The number of twins born in the United States has doubled in the last three decades largely as a result of fertility treatments, with one in 30 infants born in 2009 a twin, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said on Wednesday.

          “The increases are quite widespread, affecting all age groups and all parts of the country,” said Joyce Martin, a CDC epidemiologist and coauthor of the new study.

          More than 137,000 twins were born in the United States in 2009, accounting for one in every 30 babies.

          http://www.twinsuk.co.uk/twinstips/18/144/multiple-birth-statistics,-facts-&-trivia/having-twins-or-triplets—interesting-&-fun-facts/
          GENERAL FACTS ON MULTIPLES

          Statistics

          Multiple births in UK has been on the rise: birth of twins has risen almost 50% from 1984 – 2004 (latest data).

          Around 98.5% of all multiple births in the UK are twins and more than 9.000 sets of twins are born in the UK each year. In 2004. there were 10.548 multiple births.

          In 2004. about 1 in 34 babies was born a twin or a triplet in the UK (1980 1 in 52)

        • KJP in Portland

          I’m sure she gave some very STRICT and not to be misunderstood orders to the hospital about giving info out to anyone!

        • Rita Gregory

          I feel bad for OSA if they find her…

          • nottrue

            she would drop them like wet noodles

            • KJP in Portland

              I’ll come driving down the Valley at 85mph and bring a few rolls of quarters and more! Goddamn them! I don’t give a rat-fuck in this instance about “oh we can’t be violent”. Those bastards are practically on MY doorstep, in my ‘hood. Show them a little, friendly Orygun-tech.

              We have some of the best anti-stalking laws in the USA. Go ahead OSA…start stalking, you know what our self-defense laws are in the Beaver State, don’t you? DON’T YOU?

              We aren’t one of those mamsy-pamsy states. We have wide latitude against intruders, stalkers here, and ANY court, from County to Federal would throw your asses in jail and throw away the keys, along with instantly dismissing ANY charges you freak clan brought.

              99.995% of Orygun knows your organization is a cult, a freakshow and criminal. We’re pretty much our own COUNTRY here! Try showing up at MY doorstep at 12:40am! I hope CoB$ carries very good health insurance for your sorry asses…

            • KJP in Portland

              P.S. “Rock Salt” 12-gauge rounds in the ass really does wonders for attitude-adjustment I’ve heard.

            • Rita Gregory

              I hate that whole “fake navy” bullshit! Love the real Navy people I’ve known.

      • ParticleMom

        Just got to the bunker, thanks for the update, MK.

      • Ardent

        All support to Monkeyknickers. Here’s to two healthy little babes and a happy healthy mom!

        • Missionary Kid

          Amen!!

  • WhereIsSHE

    Thank You, Jon Atack.
    Thank you for your insight; honesty; bravery; compassion; intelligence; STRENGTH.
    That you were able to pull yourself out–entirely– and far more than that, to live a life so full of the joy of learning, not to mention, sharing what you’ve learned… it is a true testament to the will to survive.
    Many others would have hidden from sight– or caved to the pressure once they mustered the will to be seen.

    Thank you so much for daring to be who you are; to stand up for yourself–and, in the process, Wishing so many others who have been brave and wise enough to follow your footsteps.

    Wishing you the best, always.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    LWrongHubbard… can you call or email. Santa is calling

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      I just texted him and asked where the heck he was!

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Hi ladies! Was working out of town, working Sea Org type hours for a few weeks. At least I get paid a real wage and overtime. In the cold, freezing my ass off. Not even time to read articles or check in. Give me a recap of the last three weeks. Thanks for asking about me! Missed ya.

        • Robert Eckert

          Judge Waldrip in Texas ordered that David Miscavige sit for a deposition. This was on Friday the 13th, Derek Bloch doing his best to fill the shoes of Tony Ortega who could not take off from his day-job to live-blog the very fun court session: Ray Jeffrey’s best trolling move was to raise the possibility of deposing Shelly Miscavige. Davey himself had left the country a week earlier to open a pathetic Ideal Org in Taiwan; eventually it was confirmed that yes, he was on the scene. His current whereabouts are unknown. A whole new batch of troll-socks has wearied us and caused some unfair troll accusations; they also show up at gossip rags which have a bunch of Tom Cruise articles lately, not just about how badly his lawsuit ended up but also repeating the stories about slave laborers working for Cruise, from the statements Ray Jeffrey filed in Texas prior to the Friday the 13th hearing (a big batch of reading, mostly stuff we have heard before but quite impactful in the aggregate). The trolls are not bothering to defend Cruise, however, instead going off on angry tangents about what a cult the Bunker is and how no-one has the fucking rank to ask where Shelly is.

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            Thx.

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Soooo glad to see you back in here. Hugs.

  • Priscilla

    Happy Winter Solstice, everyone!

  • i-Betty

    Dear Davey, you have been talking to my neighbours. What a Christmas surprise for you to discover that they are all related to me.

    My 6′ 7″ brother, a proud member of the British Army with 4 Afghan tours and 2 Iraq tours under his belt, and 2 bravery commendations, is very much looking forward to meeting your minions, and my 6′ 5″ mixed martial arts-trained brother is – quote – “ready for you”.

    I would have remained quiet about this, but I look at my friend, The Hole Does Not Exist, who has been subject to Fair Game in recent months and I’m proud to stand up and be counted alongside her.

    I’m Andrea, by the way. Here is a photo of me leaving your Coral Gables org in the summer after. It should make it easier for you to identify me from your CCTV recordings.

    How livid your tools must have been when they knocked on my door only to find that we were having a wild Christmas party and my home was filled with people who love and support me, and were only too happy to make them very welcome ๐Ÿ˜› I’ve honestly not laughed so hard in long time, thank you!

    Happy Christmas, arsehole. May Santa bring you fleas and bunions ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Sherbet

      Oh, no, Betty!

      • Miss Tia

        I 2nd the oh no! Glad you have the neighbors you do and to be extremely blunt—FUCK FAIR GAMING!!! Going after people like i-Betty and THDNE only shows what a mafia like organizations they are! Take those individuals OUT of that group and they’d probably be appalled at what they were doing!!! $cienology is a bullying organization that is a gunless mafia (well gold base is an armed fortress). LEAVE PEOPLE ALONE!!!! If $cientology was so great people wouldn’t leave and/or more would join!

        ((hugs))

        • Sherbet

          Very well said, Miss Tia. Plenty of religions and personal philosophies are based on love, kindness, and the Golden Rule. Scientology is no religion, and it’s based on power and control. I’m so, so sorry to hear cos is targeting people we know and like, even when they’ve never been in, for the “crime” of J&D. Sickening, cowardly, and outrageous.

          • Miss Tia

            EXTREMELY cowardly and outrageous! And you’re right, $cientology is ALL about power and CONTROL! This is just sickening and it has to stop!! Look at how THEY will file stalking charges against someone peacefully protesting outside their buildings, yet THEY can stalk people? Oh that’s right, they claim ‘religious freedom’—BULL!!!

            • Sherbet

              And bubble brains like Kirstie Alley refuse to believe their “church” does anything other than improve people’s lives and the planet.

            • Miss Tia

              That’s one of the things that really makes me so mad!!!

            • Ardent

              KA is a complete shit.

            • KJP in Portland

              She’s a half-wit; she couldn’t understand anything else.

    • EnthralledObserver

      Did you invite them in? What did they want? Oh, god… why do I feel so left out way over here in Australia?!!!

      • MaxSpaceman

        uhm, Eo, could that be maybe the 16,000 kilometers you’all are way over thar ?
        ;->)

        • EnthralledObserver

          My kids need to be kept out of my obsession with the crimes of this cult… otherwise I’d be in their face more… and then I wouldn’t feel so left out. But the kiddies come first… and that’s why I don’t get any attention. I can only be armchair critic right now. ๐Ÿ™

          • MaxSpaceman

            At the same time, eO, your opposition in OZ to the cult adds to the weight of the forces aligned against The Cult – as does mine here in New York City – simply by our participation here in the Bunker. Those who can do more, do so. We that cannot, someday may. Even by commenting as we do, we do add a measure of power against The Cult. I believe that. A lot of peeps believe that here in The Underground Bunker.
            :->)

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      oh my freaking goddess. really? No way. really? You fuckin’ rock.

      what the hell is going on with this FREAK STALKER of WIMMEN, DAVID MISCAVIGE !

      You are one sick pervert and you are going to wind up in prison where you belong.

      Enough. Goddammit to hell. Where is Gloria Allred? Enough. ENOUGH!

      Let’s get a fundraiser, a GoFundMe, a whatever it takes to get this perv Stalker and Harasser of Women up against the legal wall and confined where he can no longer harass women anymore.

      ENOUGH! Hello, Gloria Allred? Anyone have any connections?

      • Ardent

        No woman, indeed no person anywhere should live in fear of this evil cult, period. BIG hugs to you!

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          not about me. It’s about the abuse, but thank you.

      • aurora50

        http://www.gloriaallred.com/Contact.shtml

        She got LOTS of contact venues, including FAX…

      • Robert Eckert

        Ray Jeffrey would be more to the point.

      • Scream Nevermore

        If Andrea is here in the UK, that means looking into getting him stopped on both sides of the Atlantic. We do have anti-stalking laws here, so it should just be a matter of proving they’re stalking her. Though it’s never t*that* easy!

    • KJP in Portland

      *BLUSH*, er, uhm, uh, stumble, stutter…Hai Andrea!

      Uh…wow! (I think my heart just flip-flopped)

      • SandiCorrena

        How would they know you? You were never in right? Have you visited them?

        • marti

          @SandiCorrena, KJP did not respond to your question. Why?

          • SandiCorrena

            I don’t know

            • Miss Tia

              I don’t recall him ever mentioning going to the Portland Org, he was never in $cientology. He was up for visiting the Portland Org with others though, but I don’t think that visit happened. Other than that I believe he just posts here, I could be mistaken and I know he will correct me and clarify things! ๐Ÿ™‚

              I think he needs to be worried about his wife finding his flirtings with women online! THAT should be his worry! I’m uh only half joking…..

            • SandiCorrena

              IKR! I’m pretty such my computer screen vibrated when he was trying to leap through the internet on his way to her house…

            • Miss Tia

              Sort of made me shudder cuz it’s true!

            • KJP in Portland

              Ladies, ladies, please! I can have pleasant surprises too! Nice guys finish last tonight. I see how it is. Ok. I’ll just go in the corner then. Don’t mind me. That’s ok, I won’t mind. Yeah, that corner over there….

            • SandiCorrena

              nobody puts KJP in the corner

            • Miss Tia

              Okay, let’s dissect this….you’re trying to deflect from your history of making inappropriate comments by even including a comment that could be taken several ways—“pleasant surprise” ? “Nice guys finish last tonight”—so you want to deflect and get comments rallying to you and patting you on the back saying you’re a nice guy and your comments are okay? Seriously, let your wife read your comments, would she think they’re innocent? Don’t you have a daughter? What would YOU think if a guy made some of your comments to her?
              Yeah, that corner over there.

            • Scream Nevermore

              He’s mentioned his visit to the Portland Org as an 18 year old before – and how creepy it was!

            • Miss Tia

              I read that after he got home and posted about it, very creepy! Wonder why they didn’t hound him like everyone else who visited though? He really lucked out there!!!

        • KJP in Portland

          I ran out for an hour…sorry.

          I went in the Portland Org when I was around 18. Took the test, got audited, never, ever went back. Even at that young age, I could tell something VERY creepy was going on there.

          • SandiCorrena

            Well thank goodness for that!

      • i-Betty

        I think and hope that you should be okay, KJ ๐Ÿ™‚ I have been making a lot of noise under my real name in the press and the Houses of Parliament in the last year and I suspect that has more to do with tonight’s visit than our little layover at the Miami org in the summer.

        • SandiCorrena

          They just go around threatening women in the middle of the night; even though I know they’re all so wretched the gasp I had at reading your post above is no where near winding down. So grateful you weren’t alone and you’re well protected! Did they scatter like little bugs? I hope so!

        • Miss Tia

          Yeah, I think KJP doesn’t have anything to worry about, except perhaps his wife learning about all his flirtations online! ๐Ÿ™‚

          I use my real name too, I respect people who remain anonymous and totally understand why, but I think some ways using your name gives a little level of protection. Yes, they know who you are, where you live, etc. But since you are KNOWN to be vocal, when they then do their stupid tricks, it comes back on THEM—-look how Marty’s community rallied around them when the squirrel’s busters showed up! I think, hope, I’m articulating this right. Tired, back ache, etc.

          • KJP in Portland

            Anyone that knows me will say I’m a flirt. Our Spitfire wants to keep me straight as an arrow! And we all love her!

            • Miss Tia

              That’s not a defense—that anyone who knows you will say you’re a flirt. No one should have to defend or finally speak out for other ladies. I really should have spoke up sooner and for not doing so I do apologize, it let you get uncontrollable. No, I don’t want your love. It was bad enough you sent me a FB message saying you’d leave your wife for me if I lived in your area!

        • DeElizabethan

          There ya go. That makes sense as they want to silence you of course. Stepping into the org was the last straw? Keep up the good work and you have our love and support. That’s like even tho I was on the internet commenting etc. Until I went out openly in the city with Chanology, did they act on me with the declare. It warms me heart to see how much fail they had for the SP opening. So we are all being effective. <3

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            what’s your secret, Dee? All these years, you bring SP after Sp into the belly for tours and you never get harassed or stalked or your income threatened or your family and friends threatened. You are an OSA success story! Are you That cute?

            What’s your secret? You’ve worked with OSA and then Declared. How do you do it when no one else gets by with it? You truly have this done. I think it’s an important tour guide for those who might want to visit. What are your pro tips?

            • DeElizabethan

              Dead agenting is a vicious and favorite tool of the cult, don’t fall for it.
              If you really want to know more than I’ve spoke of for almost 2 years, I’m open to talk and have nothing to hide. Tho I won’t continue to dwell on that matter and do have my health and life to take care of. I have few real friends since my hubby died and what family is left, isn’t around here. Would love to talk with you again and thanks for asking. Have a wonderful Christmas. I do miss you!

            • Baby

              Well I am your real friend MS DeElizabethan..

            • DeElizabethan

              Thanks Baby, always knew it! Me – you too!

            • DeElizabethan

              Below comment is my sensible cool better self. Otherwise I’d say WTF is this cool snide Shit?
              Q. Who have you been listening to?

            • Baby

              I am absolutely confused too Dee.. Tours? OSA Success Story? Absolutely confused. I am trying to read between the lines, but can’t.

        • ThetaBara

          I just saw this. As an Anon (not speaking for Anonymous, but as context) I have to say that I think that taking that step, to stand up unmasked, is really brave. It’s important and necessary that some people do it, and I commend you for stepping up. You rock!
          Sorry to hear about the uninvited guests. Glad they were so ineffectual as to be comical for you and your guests. Hope you had a lovely Christmas and that your new year is amazing!

    • Davka

      How did they find you?

      • i-Betty

        I don’t know for sure but we certainly didn’t make any effort to hide our identities when we paid
        our respects to the Miami org in the Autumn via the medium of i-phone video. We were simply not afraid then, and we’re not afraid now.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdhhcBB47cU
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zylnA2blZQ

        You’ll be pleased to know that we’ve attempted to deliver vodka and mince pies to our new friends who were, until 15 minutes ago, huddled in their car outside my house.

        So…a man and a woman knocked on my front door at 12.40am UK time assuming I would be alone. I am never alone, but they certainly weren’t expecting 40-odd merry party-goers in reindeer antlers.

        But how pitiful to harass a woman in the early hours of the morning. Scum bags. Enjoy your mince pies! Mum made them. They are good, and if you eat them quickly they will still be warm.

        • Sherbet

          Betty, this is a phrase I didn’t learn in all-girls Catholic school, but you’ve got BALLS of STEEL! ๐Ÿ™‚

          • i-Betty

            Bring it on! I have 4 giant younger brothers, Sherby, and I have them all firmly under my thumb. They are the muscles of the outfit, I am the brains ๐Ÿ˜›

            • MaxSpaceman

              my <3 is with you, iBetty.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              What the hell? Just because you went into the stupid Org?

              Why am I surprised? I shouldn’t be.
              Ok, I am talking to myself now.

              Shakes my head…

        • KJP in Portland

          That Sci boy at the desk was sure sweating in front of the babes! He probably had to go have a private moment in a back room afterwards! ;p

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          My dear friend. Miami org was probably your nemesis. I am not going to rest until we women find someone to help us in our advocacy. Gloria Allred is US, but is there any female advocate for women internationally?

          Does anyone here know? Because god dammit, that is what we need. David Miscavige stalks women when he thinks no one is around that can help them. He doesn’t understand that most of us have our own defense sysems and networks but that is not the point.

          NO WOMAN SHOULD HAVE TO LIVE WITH CONSTANT STALKING AND HARASSMENT JUST BECAUSE THE MALE POLITICIANS IN THEIR COUNTRY DON’T HAVE THE BALLS TO PASS THE LAWS TO FIX THAT SORT OF THING.

          • joan nieman

            Nail the bastard to the wall…the coward!!

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Can Senator Xenophon help you iBetty?

            • Ardent

              He’s one politician who is not afraid of the cult. He might be able to help.

              here is a link to his official site: http://www.nickxenophon.com.au

              He is an indรฉpendant Senator in the Australian Parliament, and very highly respected.

          • OrangySky

            Actually Gloria Allred might be interested in taking this on, given DM’s habitual harassment of women:
            – Mosey, Mosey and Mosey
            – Um…..Shelly disappeared???
            – Read Amy Scobee’s indirect sexual harassment by him
            – I’m sure Claire has something to say
            – Hole
            – Karen De La C
            – YOU

            Harassing and stalking women home alone = SUREFIRE SIGN OF AN IMPOTENT MAN.

            EDIT – Oh yeah, Leah. Leah.

            • Sunny Sands

              He ordered another woman to hit Debbie Cook in the Hole.

            • i-Betty

              Yes, that makes me feel sick.

          • i-Betty

            Honestly, love, knowing what they’ve put you through over the last couple of months, and seeing how you’ve held your head high and quietly confronted them with bravery and integrity; and watching Mark Bunker tackle them head on right now in Clearwater…and knowing how my family and friends have chuckled at my anti-CoS obsession, only to see them look on tonight with mouths open in astonishment, unsure whether to flex their muscles or piss themselves with laughter…right in front of my eyes I have watched as my dear, clueless friends and family have sat up and taken notice. They won’t let anything bad happen to me.

            Way to create new protesters, Davey! You should run online courses in effective opposition creation.

            My love and respect to you, Hole. My admiration for you and the way you’ve handled the shit they’ve thrown at you has gone through the roof tonight.

            Mince pie, love?

            PS. Davey, look out for us again this summer. This is fun!

            • Missionary Kid

              DM is the best person to bring about the fall of the {{{{Church}}}} of $cientology. He really knows how to stir up the opposition. What a turd!!!

          • Ardent

            Damned straight!

          • aurora50

            How about having a phone conversation, at least, with Katie Holmes’ dad?
            here is a link for him, I am assuming it is valid; of course, he may not be in this week…

            http://www.snhslaw.com/index.php?src=gendocs&ref=Martin%20J.%20Holmes%2C%20Sr.&category=Main

            Though his thoughts may be in this arena, as the Daily Mail is reporting that Fathers4Justice have put Katie’s face on an ad: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2527713/Fury-new-crummy-mummy-attack-ads-Tom-Cruises-ex-wife-Katie-Holmes-angered-Fathers4Justice-Mail-Sunday-reveals-groups-new-campaign-targets.html

        • cicely neville

          Nothing like heaping coals of fire – i see you are a perfect example of two qualities the English are justly renowned for – courtesy and courage.
          And oh, how I would have loved to be at that party! Really we must pity those poor sods – seeing real people having real fun and happiness – who knows, maybe your graciousness and Mum’s pies will persuade them to try Wogdom.

    • Missionary Kid

      They probably tracked you down from associations with THDN, and reached all the way to the U.K. FUCK ’em. I hope they have a good time playing with your brothers.

    • Rita Gregory

      You rock girl! Hey OSA, the tech does not work and your loyalty to DMass will be your true ruin.

    • SandiCorrena

      Unbelievable! Thank heaven you weren’t alone!

    • KJP in Portland

      I’m a veteran with overseas time. Can I come hang with your brothers, make friends and hit on their sister?

      • Espiando

        I’m the same, but I’d hang out with Betty and hit on her brothers.

        • MaxSpaceman

          oh, espi ! you are a scream !!
          I needed a laugh right at that moment, and there was your comment.
          Thank you, bro.

        • Ardent

          Grins- good one, cwazy wabbit!

        • IBBy

          Can I sit with you, get drunk, and make eyes at the boys? We can compare notes

        • Scream Nevermore

          Sorry Espiando, I might have to fight you over that! ๐Ÿ˜‰

      • Miss Tia

        And what would your wife think of that? And of all your flirting here?

        • KJP in Portland

          I see my Mom is here again! ๐Ÿ˜‰

          • Miss Tia

            Really where? I don’t see a user named KJP Married Overly Flirtation Son of Mine in Portland…oh you mean me….hardy har har….dude, seriously…..you do it to almost all the ladies and here’s i-betty relaying something pretty intense and you start in about how she looks….

            • KJP in Portland

              I was taught that flattery was something nice. Certainly the OSA is a very serious issue. I’d rather have her brothers handle them! Everyone else here is saying nice things, so I chimed in too, no big…

              Maybe I’m just a genuinely nice person. I like to say nice things. I like to do nice things. This is about the only place I get chastised for that.

              I’ve heard of Internet wives and husbands…Now we have Internet moms! J/K.

              I’m old, I like to have a little fun when it is warranted. And all I have to do is, get this, sit in a chair! All was intended in a nice fashion. I’m not into interstate, intercontinental trysts…

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Flirting among married people is perfectly harmless, and can even be beneficial.

              Just as long as it goes no further than flirting!

            • Scream Nevermore

              Oops, I read that last bit as ‘incontinent trysts’ and almost choked on my tea!

            • Miss Tia

              Flattery and what you say are two different things. See, here we go again, you start getting defensive in an attempt to deflect from what you did and to get ‘nice’ comments from people claiming YOU didn’t do anything wrong.

              What you’ve said to some women is NOT nice. Some of the comments border on creepy. If this is being chastised, so be it, I should have spoke up sooner. And it’s a “nice thing” to private message women saying you’d leave your wife for them? Oh yeah, you’re a nice guy!

              You’re in your early 50s. If you want to claim the dirty old man defense, fine. Everyone here DOES have fun. Some people actually DO flirt without going into dirty old man territory. Much like you are obsessed with women’s looks and are the first to call a woman ugly or fat—I have seen others take you to task for that, especially fat shaming, even with Kirstie Alley.

              I have no doubt you had nice intentions—meaning nothing with ill intent; but that does NOT make the things you’ve said to some women okay. It’s one thing to tell a woman she’s pretty, beautiful, etc but you take it to the next level! I’d tell you to think about the comments you’ve made but you think you’ve said nothing wrong. And yes, will call me an internet ‘mom’. No, it’s called standing up for others.

    • OrangySky

      You’re BEAUTIFUL Betty!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • i-Betty

        Ah no, thank you so much, but I’m quite porky! It’s a flattering photo which just happened to be taken as we were driving past the Coral Gables org on our final drive-by so I felt it was appropriate to post tonight. It’s amazing what 2 weeks of Miami sun and daily swimming will do to a body, and there’s no reason to keep my identity a secret now! ๐Ÿ™‚

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          You are not porky. You are adorable!

          • i-Betty

            Remember the photo I sent you of me drinking your mojito cocktail (thank you very much!) with the ‘This is Bury’s Mojito’ sign which we set up in the wine bar? ๐Ÿ˜€

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Oh, Hell yes. I still have it.
              It was so awesome!

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          It is a beautiful photo!

        • Rita Gregory

          Looking good Betty!

    • Observer

      So your brothers are roughly the height of two David Miscaviges each?

      • i-Betty

        If we could persuade Dave to lie still in a vat of plaster of Paris we could create shoe-sized molds for the boys ๐Ÿ˜€

        • Missionary Kid

          Tiny Turd becomes Tiny Shoes.

      • cicely neville

        LOL^^^^^^^^^^

    • Ardent

      Well, lovely Betty, I’m glad you were able to let rip on those half-wit SciBots. Just incredible what they think they can get away with. And sadly, just as incredible what they can and do get away with. My New Year’s wish is to see the cult come crashing down, cops swarming and families united. More power to you, and thanks!

    • IBBy

      You are beautiful xox

      Please be careful. COS plays dirty

    • Missionary Kid

      Fleas and bunions. The first are annoying as hell, and the second, painful. Is that a common British expression, or did that come from your magnificent mind?

      • i-Betty

        Heehee, it was the worst witchy curse I could think of at that moment (aside from ‘may your armpits be infested with the fleas of a thousand camels’) ๐Ÿ˜€ Sweet dreams MK and everyone. The adrenalin has just left me in a rush and I’m beyond sleepy. Nothing to wake up for in the morning so it’s an afternoon alarm call for me.

        Thank you all for your support tonight. I’m sorry I’ve not been able to respond to everyone’s lovely comments but it’s been a bit hectic at home with everyone demanding explanations about our visitors.

        Thank you ๐Ÿ™‚

        • Missionary Kid

          No reply necessary. I hope you’re asleep. Nothing like some strange strangers showing up at your door to illustrate how worried Co$ is about you. I hope they had a bad trip back to whatever hole they crawled out of.

          Here’s a phrase you can use. I quote Tory/Magoo, talking to a scion guard: “You can tell ______ to go fuck himself.”

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      iBetty Andrea – good on you that you have the support. Watch out for those crazies though, they do indeed play very dirty.

      • i-Betty

        Thank you ๐Ÿ™‚ x

    • DeElizabethan

      Hi Andrea, nice to see your picture, you’re beautiful! I missed your story so will backtrack to find out what this is about them visiting you. Whoa! Sounds like they are trying to break up the Bunkerites eh? Hopefully we won’t be taken in by it. Be safe love!

    • MaxSpaceman

      There’s homegirl ~

    • jmh

      Just ((Hugs)). You have the support of so many. I count myself blessed to know you, even if it is just over the internet. You’re such a sweet soul, and a kickass warrior princess against these fools! You Scilons better watch out… you touch our girl and you’ll have Legion to deal with.

    • aquaclara

      Sorry, I Betty. This is crap, and you don’t deserve it. Although I have to say, yay, yay, yay for your brothers. That’s fabulous.

      I hope you, plus Hole, send a note to our fav Texas lawyer and fill him in…just for a bit of extra info.

      And most important, stay safe, call the police, and oh, can we give your brothers a few anonymous masks?

    • Baby

      Betty you are absolutely beautiful.. Radiant.. xox and free.. Live the Dream baby girl.. xox

    • Verve

      Shit just got real, yo.

    • Scream Nevermore

      Ooooooooh, Betty, I like the sound of your brothers! ๐Ÿ˜‰ But please, if any of Dave’s Diddy Men try to square up to you and yours again, film it! And be careful. Love the pic, btw – tres sophisticated! ๐Ÿ™‚

  • media_lush

    just putting an M&S Madras curry in the microwave and opening a Sancerre… in the mean time here’s another small selection from my files (and that writing on the cardboard is not photoshopped)

    • Miss Tia

      OMG I didn’t notice the dildo on that chair right away!!! LOL!!!!

      LOVE the middle pix!!!

      Is that TC’s wife #4 audition? Was he affecting a British accent and said “I want a smashing bird to audition” and someone took it literally?

    • KJP in Portland

      LOL! Their ‘Pleasure Throne’ website is long gone. Business must have been brisk!

    • Casabeca

      The supper sounds very “Liz Jones”.
      Cheers Lush!

  • cicely neville

    IT’S BEEN 13 HOURS. WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THE MONKEY??? Somebody tell me something, I am WORRYING and I’m stuck in the barn with 50 hungry quadrupeds.

    • Sherbet

      13 hours is, alas, not an excessive length of time to be in labor. I’m postulating “They’ll all be fine and healthy.”

      • Rita Gregory

        Especially for a first baby or babies. ๐Ÿ™‚

        • Sherbet

          That’s in the same chapter in the birthing manual that calls labor “discomfort.” LOL

          • Rita Gregory

            Geez, don’t you want whoever wrote that to experience “discomfort”?

          • Casabeca

            Yeah, I loved the book that said nursing would be “gentle bliss”. Hahaha.

            • Sherbet

              Oh, yes, another natural and normal process that doesn’t feel normal or natural in the beginning, Casa.

        • OrangySky

          And twins.

      • stillgrace2

        Hi Sherbet. I met an OB-GYN today at a Christmas party and I got a chance to talk with him about twin births. I was curious about gestation time and labor time for twins. He mentioned that 37 to 38 weeks is considered full-term for twins and he usually induces or schedules a C-section at that time. Is that consistent with your experience?

        • whenpigsswim

          I have twins and I remember we were aiming for 37 weeks. I made it to 36.5 weeks and then the Dr. had to induce. By that time my little girl was so far up under my ribcage, I had to push her butt down now and then to get some relief. No joke!

          I hope all is going well with Monkey!

        • Sherbet

          Hi, ‘grace. I know nothing about twins, but I do know labor can last longer than 13 hours. Ouch.

          • stillgrace2

            I hope she has been receiving sound pre-natal care and has an excellent doctor.

            On Tony’s article about “Countdown to Portland: Scientology Planning a Rager on Saturday (May 10, 2013), monkeyknickers mentioned in a comment that the fetuses had recently developed hearing. Since that happens at the 16 week mark, I expected to hear about the new bundles of joy arriving sometime in October. In fact, the timeframe of that comment would put monkeyknickers at the 48 week mark of her pregnancy. That can’t be right.

            • Sherbet

              I originally thought she was due in the fall, myself, but I can’t say I was paying a lot of attention. Hmmm…interesting, ‘grace.

        • aquaclara

          My grand babies were scheduled to be induced two weeks prior to actual due date and then came on their own that very day. One just under 9 pounds, one just over 8 pounds.
          So so cute!

          • stillgrace2

            What a blessing, aquaclara. Congratulations. I look forward to becoming a grandmother.

            • aquaclara

              It’s funny…comes along very quickly when twins are involved. And oh, so much fun.
              Thank you!

          • ParticleMom

            Wow, that is huge for twins!

    • Rita Gregory

      Have no news as yet. ๐Ÿ™

    • aquaclara

      50 hungry quadrupeds…. Ok, do fill us in! Cows? Sheep? Hmmmmm.

      • Robert Eckert

        Lions and tigers and bears, oh my!

  • MaxSpaceman

    Jon Atack- such a great description of the Hubbard-created mind-grab. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the subject. Compelling reading.

    “It became painfully apparent that Hubbard had built a phobic fence around us. Although we were able to โ€œcommunicate freely on any subject with anyoneโ€ (according to the Grade 0 release), there were people with whom we must not communicate, on pain of expulsion.”

    The complete WTF like- for my eternity, I cede control of my freedoms? It’s very hard to see for never-in. ‘Tis easier to see for Sea Org’ers; there’s so much pressure/stress in your face 24/7. But- If one is living in the community, has a job independent of the cherch, they, too are taken to cede control of their freedoms. For what? It must be for their ‘eternity’ at the end of the day; their overarching goal of their soul-life-spirit. Why otherwise I wonder . . .

    *Something* the member wants keeps that person immersed in this Hubbard-controlled ‘world.’

  • Jo
    • Miss Tia

      Your link didn’t work for some reason for me…i hope my link works for peoples if your link doesn’t work for them—direct to their comment… http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2013/12/tom-cruise-drops-lawsuit-against-publisher-over-abandoning-suri-claim/#comment-1173243151

      • Ardent

        Wow. What a fruitless and irritating thread that was. I gave up down voting because I guess, as a sock, I haven’t the energy to waste on those trolls. Thanks for the link, Baby.

        • Miss Tia

          that 6dog isn’t worth the time, nor that lifter!

          • KJP in Portland

            I downvoted Lafter and 6Rat over there.

            • Miss Tia

              I downvoted so many of their posts the page was getting slow! i don’t like to downvote at all, but they DEFINITELY deserve it!

          • Jo

            They are the same person. They called me a tony sock. Oh well ๐Ÿ™‚

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              The cool thing is………..they are doing our work for us without realizing it.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Oh yes. When civilians are figuring this out, it’s really obvious.

            • stillgrace2

              … and (deliciously) I believe “they” work directly for DM as his puppets. If something we say or do is upsetting “them”, be assured it’s upsetting Dave. I love it!

            • Miss Tia

              they called me a tony sock too!! apparently anyone who is anti-$ci is a tony sock! unbelievable!

            • jmh

              Well, considering they thought the Craigslist Slaying crew was a single SP, is this really surprising? ROFL

            • Miss Tia

              Good perspective!

        • Miss Tia

          whoa, i just answered LeoMont and i saw that Lifter guy claiming people posting anti-Sci stuff are all just Tony Ortego socks! OMFG!!! How preposterous!!! I mean, that’s really sad if you think about it, that someone thinks that! Wow……just wow…..

      • Jo

        Thanks Miss Tia

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        Your link worked Miss Tia. Powerful post, I just ignore 6dog and lifter. They just want a reaction, that gets them their points.

        • Miss Tia

          Yeah, I hope he comes over here—the poster, obviously not 6dog or lifter!!! I did suggest they come over here for support from other people in the same position as them.

  • DamOTclese2

    Anti-SLAPP. Insane, utterly insane that these filthy asshole crooks that violate people’s human rights and civil rights, including drowning people’s dogs to try to silence and influence them are shitting out an anti-SLAPP complaint. Criminals!

    Let’s hope that this latest act of shitting by David earns the fucker another $1 million added to the eventual Jury award.

  • DamOTclese2

    In other news I have photographs of Shawn Lonsdale‘s monument complete with the engraved brass plate. I need to get in touch with Luke Lirot first, though, to see if his parents are okay with having the monument’s photos released.

    • Baby

      Awww RIP Shawn.. Dam thank you.

  • Kim O’Brien

    I just got back – Do we have Bunker Babies yet ??

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      Still waiting………..!!!

      • Kim O’Brien

        i got the cutest onsie’s for them …with Monkey’s on them ! And a gift for Ash …so much fun !!

      • Casabeca

        It is so hard to wait!
        Maybe we should pace the waiting room together?

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          Yes let’s!

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb are over at the Radar site dropping a lot of conversational duds in an effort to insult the whole “Bunker Cult.”

    Many lulz, if you can let it slide off your back when they say particularly egregious things…

    http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2013/12/tom-cruise-drops-lawsuit-against-publisher-over-abandoning-suri-claim/#comment-1173243151

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      I ignore them, they are like middle schoolers, with their immature comments. I pretend they don’t exist,

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        Yep. It can be amusing to engage with them, but in the end only rewards bad behavior.

    • Miss Tia

      Those are great names for them! It’s the same person apparently and they have long conversations with themselves!! Well at least they have temporary company?

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        I believe that “their” task is to bury comments beneath long, dull stretches of “conversation.” Best thing to do is go back and post relevant comments at the top of their lunatic rambling, thereby negating all their efforts.

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          Yes, I think you are right – they end up creating a long trail of blather. occasionally post a new comment so it will come up on “newest.”

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            A civilian figured it out, came back and reposted a really relevant piece that had been forced way down. OSA is just that obvious.

            • Free Minds, Free Hearts

              Yes, SandraFer, said her family has been destroyed by the cult, still trying to recover.

        • Snippy_X

          I think it’s called sliding, an actual named troll technique. Someone posted a full list of them somewhere, maybe WWP? I’ll look for it tomorrow. It might be good to post over at Radar. Best advice IMO:
          “Post relevant comments at the top of their lunatic rambling, thereby negating all their efforts.”

        • Miss Tia

          Very true!! and whereas I wanted to avoid Radar because of those two, you’re exactly right with their motives!!! Thank you!! You should post this encouragement whenever others post a radar link—-I will if you aren’t around and give you proper credit! ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Snippy_X

      Thanks for posting the link, D^3.

  • Michael Leonard Tilse

    I do not have any news from MonkeyKnickers. I too am a little concerned with not hearing anything, but I trust that she is in good hands. As soon as I know anything from her, and have her OK, I will post news.

    But she will probably beat me to it.

    • Kim O’Brien

      When you go into labor and get to the hospital …it’s like going to Vegas. You lose all track of time .;)

      • ParticleMom

        And she will be exhausted!

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Going into labor is a lot like going into Vegas.

        Is this true? Debate on.

        • Jimmy Threetimes

          As a man with a lifetime of experience watching television and movies, some of them containing childbirth scenes, I believe that I am qualified to say yes. Yes, it is exactly like going to Vegas.

          • Robert Eckert

            What happens there, stays there?

      • Observer

        And you come back with less money than you had when you went.

    • Miss Tia

      Thanks for the update!! I’m off to bed but will continue sending her good thoughts!!! I am sure she is in very good hands!!!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Thanks.

    • pronoia

      I would not be concerned. It is her first time — there are 2. And for that reason it is unlikely she is capable of being anything other in the moment. Or they are here and she is hopefully sleeping (she will need it).

      • stillgrace2

        I remember when monkeyknickers first started posting here, she mentioned that she lived in a tiny apartment in France with her infant daughter. So I didn’t think the twins were her first.

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          I think you are confusing Richelieu Jr and Monkeyknickers…..

          • stillgrace2

            No, I’m not. I’m recalling a conversation between Richelieu and monkeyknickers. I’ll see if I can find it. I think it’s on the super bowl live blog.

            • ParticleMom

              Richelieu is from France and has a baby ๐Ÿ™‚

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Correct.

          • stillgrace2

            Here it is: *refresh*

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Well, smack my ass and call me Sally! My head is spinning…..WTF is going on here?

            • Rita Gregory

              Smack! Sally.

            • Baby

              OH I’m sorry Hubs.. I missed your Ass and cold cocked you.. Shoot.. xo

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              But seriously, you can’t just post that and run away. What does this mean? Have we all been duped? I’m confused….

            • stillgrace2

              I’m still here. I’ve been posting further down about COB’s personal troll-puppets,/ I went to an alumni Christmas party today and met a really nice doctor, OB-GYN. I’ve been curious about the timing of monkeyknicker’s pregnancy, and I asked him a few questions. I posted about this further down in this comment section. I’m worried.

            • ParticleMom

              This kept me up last night. Sigh.

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              It’s not looking good at this point.

        • pronoia

          The little girl is her niece. Her sister joined the sea org and abandoned her to mks care.

          • stillgrace2

            Don’t think so. Her comments were 11 months ago, she said she was in France 5 years ago. The niece just turned four. She used the specific words “infant daughter” and “single mother with an infant”. I’ve been under the impression all along that the twins weren’t her first children.

            • pronoia

              Well I missed the france and infant daughter part. All I do know is that more recently she has posted that she lives in Portland Oregon with her niece Ashley, whose mother is in the Sea Org (don’t understand the backstory to that) and pregnant and last night went into labor with twins. But you know, it is the internet and perhaps 11 months ago she was trying to keep her online identity fuzzy.

  • media_lush

    Anyone know what’s up with John P?

    • Espiando

      Probably getting fed peeled grapes by Supermodel #1 while contemplating the best way to perform a hostile takeover of Albania or something like that. He’ll be back when he’s back.

    • Miss Tia

      I wondered that myself. Probably helping the economy shopping! ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Golden Age of Blech

      Was about to ask the same thing. OSA got to him…LOL

  • Bury_The_Nuts

    L Wrong said he posted earlier, but has been swamped with work.

    This is a Public, Service……..Announcement!!!

    (only Capt Howdy will get that last part…i think)

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Please let him know that hubby needs him to respond to phone messages and please send . Santa says thank you. At the very very least, at least message that you won’t be sending tracks back. thank you.

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        done.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          thanks. It’s important.

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            He did say it would be tomorrow.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Oh. He always says that. But thanks. I’ll let the studio know to proceed without. Just happy to know that he is alive and kicking.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Hey, wait a minute missy! Chill. I responded to you.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Hello. sorry, the $ meter was running.

    • Captain Howdy

      Huh? Sorry but i don’t for the moment . I do find the part about someone being a musician interesting though. The only time I’ve ever communicated with anyone around here has been here or on the rodeo. Obviously there’s’ a lot of PM’s and e-mails being exchanged behind the scenes around here.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Howdy Howdy!

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        Clash reference!

  • KJP in Portland

    Man those 2 poster are nutz over on the Radar site. What a couple of real pieces of work.

    • Miss Tia

      They’re the same person apparently. That really explains how their ‘conversations’ between their 2 characters flow so quickly.

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        Agree!

      • Robert Eckert

        It is the author of the “whois” sites, probably Laurisse “Louanne” Stuckenbrouck.

        • Captain Howdy

          So Louanne is a weight lifter?

          My money is on them being the person or persons behind the celebrity center thing.

          • Espiando

            Well, Lou Suckhiscock is supporting a two-ton sack of shit, so she’s got to have muscles.

            As for who they are, it’s really irrelevant. They’re douchenozzles, and they deserve to be crushed.

            • KJP in Portland

              Bada Bing Espi!

          • Robert Eckert

            No no, the “celebrity” blog is not the same mindset. This is the “Freedumb Magazine” / “whoisrathburn” type of drivel, repeated endlessly from a brain that is obviously damaged by too long near the Poison Dwarf.

            • Captain Howdy

              But the jist of 6dog/lifter’s enmity is directed at tony personally . It’s not about defending scn or dm. The celebrity center gossip folks have had it in for Tony and were culling us his cult months ago. It’s a perfect fit IMO. Plus 6dogs writing style is somewhat similar to the person on CC.

            • Robert Eckert

              Good points, but why the obsession with Shelly?

            • Rita Gregory

              That was the first time I’ve seen that from 6dog. Strange wasn’t it?

            • stillgrace2

              I’m telling you, guys, if you’re talking to either of those “two” guys, you’re talking directly or indirectly to COB himself. I’ve been watching this since it started.

            • Robert Eckert

              I tried calling him “Dave” for a while to see if he’d bite.

            • Rita Gregory

              I just called him/her tLou!

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Hello Grace!!!

            • stillgrace2

              Hello, Triple-D!!

            • EnthralledObserver

              Lifter got vicious with me the other day. Both (6dog and Lifter) replied to me, after I comment on several of their comments way after they’d left for the day, and then hours later I got hammered by both in my email… Lifter was really cruel, 6dog just a smartarse. I didn’t respond at all, but was really taken aback by Lifter’s abuse. He’s got a real bee in his bonnet. If that is Davey Makemerich… well, Xenu help any Sea Orgers or…well… anyone who crosses his path in real life. What a monster!

          • KJP in Portland

            I dunno, but she’s UGLY though.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Duck! Too late…..that was multiple pairs of shoes being thrown at your head by the ladies around here……just sayin’

            • KJP in Portland

              She IS!

              All the ladies here are beautiful!

              Lou Suckhiscock deserves her fate. They’re like Bonnie & Clyde!

            • Rita Gregory

              She has an ugly soul, that’s for sure.

            • KJP in Portland

              Shelly was a far step up from this broom-rider.

            • Miss Tia

              YES!!!! There we go! Ugly souls!! Sharp spiked heels!! YES!!

            • Rita Gregory

              Mine were heels. Spike heels.

            • Miss Tia

              YEAH!!!!

            • Miss Tia

              Wow, you really got a thing for commenting on lady’s looks don’t ya? Negatively or positively.

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          Robert – Okay this is news to me. I never knew that Louanne was Laurisse. That is just weird. Butโ€ฆ how do you know it is the author of the whois sites?

          • Robert Eckert

            The “comments” thread on one of those was this same kind of rapid fire exchange between two indistinguishable voices, clearly socks of the same person, you’re so right about that cultish group of lunatics — yes I agree they certainly all tell the same lies — that’s exactly right, etc. etc. I do not know for a fact that “Louanne” is Laurisse but it has been a frequent identification by those who have watched OSA trolls over the years.

      • Robert Eckert

        I went back to August, find this that I-Betty grabbed before it was edited to “-” and deleted to “Guest”:

        Commentstars โ€ข posted August 9 on the August 8 thread (LEAH REMINI REPORTS SHELLY MISSING)

        You all are NUTS. Right up there with the kooks who say Obama’s birth certificate was fake and that the US blew up the world trade centre. You, like all fanatical conspiracy theorist funnel all information to promote whatever irrational point of view your group think has bought into. Yes the CO$ might be an extreme and odd bunch of ducks with extreme practices under the umbrella of a so called “religion” but y’all are suppose to be the sane ones? LOL! I don’t think so.

        “I’m feeling very much short-changed by that LAPD ‘statement'”

        Um ….who cares? Does the world or the LAPD or Shelly Misgavige or anybody owe you anything? You sense of entitlement is just bizarre.

        “What do you want to bet it was a phone call?”

        And you know this how?”

        This is clearly lifter/6dog, although it is odd that the more recent incarnations no longer do the erase-and-delete thing. I still think this is the same troll as Louanne Creepy Eyeball, whether or not correctly identified as Laurisse.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      You mean these two?

      (refresh)

  • Golden Age of Blech

    Any word on MK? As a Dad x2, I worry. Twins, yes? My god I couldn’t imagine both at the same time. Eek! Holy Huggies Batman!

    • riotgrrrl

      not yet

  • IBBy

    Goodnight moon. Hoping MK is doing well in the baby department, and all of the rest of you have pleasant dreams. Tomorrow is a new day, and sunday funnies! Those are always good for a wtf

    • Baby

      Awww Goodnight Moon.. (((HUGS)))) tomorrow..

  • Suppressive Tomato

    Tony, an off-topic coverage request: I would really enjoy a long-time insider’s perspective on “Games”. In the books accompanying “The Philadelphia Doctorate Course”, there is an essay, “Rules of Games”, dated December 1952. It contains some priceless insight into how Ron viewed other people, structured his organizations, and generally ran Scientology. There’s a lot of excellent material for examination here, but for the sake of brevity, I’ll mention just his “Caste system of Games”. The following is a duplicate of what’s printed:

    Caste system of Games
    Makerโ€”No rules
    Playerโ€”Rules known and obeyed
    Assistant playersโ€”Obey players
    Piecesโ€”Obey rules as dictated by players, don’t know rules

    How to Make pieces
    Deny there is a game
    Hide the rules from them
    Give them all penalties and no wins
    Remove all goals
    Enforce their playing
    Inhibiting their enjoying
    Make them look like but forbid their being like Players

    To make a piece continue to be a piece, permit it to associate only with pieces and deny the existence of players

    • Casabeca

      great find!

  • S.Saint

    Monkey knickers, I am so anxious to hear you and babies are doing O.K.

  • Rita Gregory

    I had to give the troll over at Radar a snack. Sorry I won’t do it again, but damn it was fun!

    • riotgrrrl

      that was fun. i like connecting with people while still getting my point across. im a mindfucker that way lol

      • Rita Gregory

        You were awesome! You made them very uncomfortable. LOL!

      • riotgrrrl

        but honestly i saw a human side in 6dog in the end there. theres always room for attempts at understanding.

        • Rita Gregory

          That human side was uncomfortable for sure.

          • riotgrrrl

            heehee i guess so. too many years of therapy and buddhists teachings. im always trying to mindfuck. people just intrigue me.

            • ParticleMom

              Good job!

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      There was a troll at Radar Online???

      • Rita Gregory

        It was shocking! A troll at Radar, who’d have thunk it? ๐Ÿ˜‰

  • Guest

    St. Claire messed up. He mentioned being on the Radar thread in a comment in a comment on the Hollywood Reporter. He’s definitely 6Dog and probably Lifter, as well. Remember – Sci trolls sometimes share sock personas, so someone else could use that persona at other times.

    St. Claire is most likely Bill Yaude. He wants you to think that he’s a nice, public member of the CoS. Don’t believe it for a minute. Remember-that’s what he wants you to think.

    Just ignore the 6dog and Lifter posts and flag anything that they say that is inappropriate. Responding to them accomplishes what they want: to derail the thread.

    • Rita Gregory

      St. Claire has been on Radar a lot, I didn’t see where he said he had been on today. I do not see how you came to this conclusion. If I’m missing something please explain. I do agree we should ignore 6dog and Lifter but don’t see why you think he is 6dog, Lifter or Bill Yaude. Not trying to be contentious, just want to know your reasoning. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Modesto

      The bunker is really getting to them, isn’t it? Result. Stay safe, Tony …

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    woke up just to wonder about monkey knickers. no news, okay.

    • Rita Gregory

      No news. It’s been 19 hrs. I wish we would hear something.

  • Rita Gregory

    Monkeyknickers I hope you are ok and have some babies outside your body now. We are worried about you and yours. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • DodoTheLaser

      It’s been 24 hours now. MK is a fighter and artist.
      We probably will hear from her very very soon.
      Just around Sunday Funnies. I sure hope so.

      • Rita Gregory

        Hopefully the babies are here and MK and company are all asleep. ๐Ÿ™‚

        • DodoTheLaser

          Same thoughts and wishes here. ๐Ÿ™‚

  • Rita Gregory

    So, evil psychs are trying to control us through the use of perfume? I wonder if the perfume manufactures are in league with the psychs? Obsession, Eternity, Escape…..omg, Calvin Klein is definitely in on it.

    • DodoTheLaser

      Yes! Proof: Xenoh Deodorant!

      • Rita Gregory

        LMAO!

        • DodoTheLaser

          I know! Psychs impersonating sexy Sea Org members trying to push their deadly Xenoh!
          Just say NO!

  • Robert Eckert

    Comments thread will not load on the Sunday Funnies. Disqus is fine on any other board, or any other post on this board. Just Tony’s latest will not post. Anyone else experiencing this?

    • SandiCorrena

      Yes, I am having the same problem! Good Morning Robert!

      • I have the same problem with the SeaMonkey browser, but not if I load the page in Chrome, where I’m not logged in. Very curious, as Disqus is available in other sites, and the comments themselves are accessible in SeaMonkey.

    • Bluenose Ghost

      I noticed it will load if the setting is set to “best” but if it’s set to “newest,” it won’t.

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      Had the same problem, cleared cookies and cache and loaded it eventually, but it will still not sort by newest. Odd even for Disqusland..

      • Mark

        Tried that, but it still won’t load. (P.S. Now it has. Good!)

    • Mark

      Yup. Bloody frustrating, even if it forced me to finally get Firefox working properly again. And I’ve got a nice new shoop all ready & waiting too…

    • Sandy

      Thank goodness. I thought it was just me!

      • Robert Eckert

        I thought it was me. I’ve had two dozens tabs open, many of them just sitting there for weeks, and have only let the laptop go into snooze mode, not shut down and get some real rest, so I thought OK, maybe I’ve tortured it enough. But a complete start-over had no effect.

    • Scream Nevermore

      Yup, me too!

    • Miss Tia

      Yup, I’m in the club too!

  • Mooser

    Hubbard was scared of dentists. A case of Odontophobia is always distressing .

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