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This is Your Dianetics on Drugs: The Nitrous Engram

DennisHopperVelvetWelcome to our ongoing project, where we blog a 1950 first edition of Scientology’s bible, Dianetics, with the help of ex-Scientologist, lawyer, and author Vance Woodward. Go here for the first post in the series.

Vance, as we near the latter stages of this book, we’re still plowing through this lengthy chapter, “Mechanisms and Aspects of Therapy.”

As we said last week, Hubbard tends to get into a groove as he describes dianetic techniques for troublesome engrams, which come in flavors like “denyers,” “holders,” “bouncers,” and “groupers.”

For whatever your father or mother uttered while you were in the womb and now holds you back as an adult, Hubbard has the cure for what ails you.

As usual, it’s an example that tends to break the reverie.

In this case, it’s a brief rant Hubbard goes on about drugs.

As you read what he has to say about nitrous oxide in particular, keep in mind that it was a trip to the dentist that changed everything for Hubbard. As Lawrence Wright described in Going Clear, in 1938 Hubbard experienced a life-altering trip while under the influence of nitrous oxide for a dental procedure. He would tell people that he’d seen all the world’s wisdom at once, or something.

With that in mind, we found this passage fascinating…

Nitrous oxide is easily the worst, being no anaesthetic which would dull pain at all but a first class hypnotic. In nitrous oxide the pain is filed and the content is filed with high and brilliant fidelity. Some years ago some investigator wondered if nitrous oxide did not make the brain decay. Fortunately brains do not decay that easily; but nitrous oxide does bring into being particularly severe engrams. The serious late-life engrams which the auditor will encounter may include, at the list’s top, a nitrous oxide dental or surgical or obstetrical engram. Nitrous oxide engrams are particularly bad when they involve exodontistry; they often form the most severe late-life engram. Aside from the fact that all exodontists have in the past talked too much and have offices which are far too noisy with street sounds, running water and flapping drill belts, nitrous oxide is not at all anaesthetic and sharpens rather than dulls pain.

What do you make of it, Vance?

VANCE: I think we’re always confronting a layered mix of fact and fiction with Hubbard’s autobiographical comments. Oh who am I kidding? Everything he said was a mix of fact and fiction. Anyhow, yes, I figure these statement are at least partially autobiographical even though they apparently belie other things Hubbard has said. Maybe he did get a mind-blowing high from being under nitrous oxide and he told some people about it. And then, later, while auditing himself, maybe he “realized” that, during that same operation, the nurse felt him up and whispered lascivious desires in his ear, which would have explained (to his satisfaction) why he abused his wife and had rotting teeth. And maybe behind all that was a desire to keep the source of his enlightenment (drugs) secret from his followers. Call me cynical, but I figure he wanted people dependent on him rather than on drugs.

Besides, Hubbard was the epitome of “Do what I say, not what I do.” Take for example, this bit in which Hubbard compares several drugs to alcohol: “Opium is less harmful, marijuana is not only less physically harmful but also better in the action of keeping a neurotic producing, phenobarbital does not dull the senses nearly as much and produces less after effect, ammonium chloride and a host of other stimulants are more productive of results and hardly less severe on the anatomy.” And that’s right after he finished extolling amphetamines and caffeine. Later on, in the 1970s, once he had a going concern with Scientology, Hubbard needed a cadre of angry rule-mongers more than free-thinking self-experimenters. At that point, Hubbard “realized” that drugs were a major source of problems in society (in other words, he was annoyed some of his followers were getting stoned rather than making him money). Just a guess.

THE BUNKER: But an intriguing one. Thank you, Vance. We’ll close out this chapter next week and then the end is in sight! (And a big thank you to our reader who sent a copy of History of Man and some other volumes.)

Next week — Dianetics Noir: Dangerous Women Hiding Their Womb-Secrets

 
——————–

RathbunSquirrelsMonday on Channel 4: The Bunker Invades the UK

Monday night at 9 pm, our UK readers will get a chance to see a 1-hour documentary on Channel 4 put together by director Joseph Martin and producer Danielle Clark. The title is “Scientologists at War,” and we expect it to feature the rise of Independent Scientology that is proving to be such a challenge to the church itself.

Last September, we were covering one of the most unusual stories we’ve written for the Bunker, about two former private investigators who had followed one man for 24 years on orders of Scientology leader David Miscavige. (The story itself was published in November.) We had flown to Texas for the story, and we drove down to Corpus Christi with the two private eyes and their attorneys as they were reunited with the man who had first hired them for the church in 1988, Marty Rathbun.

Also on hand was the Channel 4 team, which included producer Michael Simkin. We found ourselves being filmed as we interviewed Rathbun about the private eyes, one of the most interesting conversations we’ve ever had with him.

Later the film crew asked us if we’d be interested in getting even more involved with the project. We spent a week in Los Angeles in November with them, interviewing quite a few people, as well as a couple of days near Houston.

We don’t know what the finished film looks like, or how much of our contribution remains. But we were impressed by the amount of homework that Martin and Clark and Simkin had done, and the excellent questions they asked.

We’re not sure how viewers outside of Britain will get to see the documentary, but we have a feeling the clever folks at WWP will find a way.

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on June 13, 2013 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

If you’d like to help support The Underground Bunker, please e-mail our webmaster Scott Pilutik at BunkerFund@tonyortega.org

 

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  • Observer

    I love how Vance cuts right to the heart of it: “Later on, in the 1970s, once he had a going concern with Scientology, Hubbard needed a cadre of angry rule-mongers more than free-thinking self-experimenters.”

    I once had nitrous during a dental procedure and, mind-blowingly … fell asleep right in the middle of it. But then I wasn’t a delusional paranoid fantasist.

    • sugarplumfairy

      Yah.. Vance nailed it.. I loved the quote about the drug being “better in the act of keeping the neurotic producing..” lrh must have bought stock in that drug..

    • Missionary Kid

      I had nitrous once for a minor procedure. At the time, I worked for a Fortune 500 company, wore a suit, and looked as straight as possible. It was the first job I got after getting my degree.

      In college, I had smoked a lot of dope, but hadn’t for about 6 months. When I came out, the nurse said, “Nice trip, huh?” I could only surmise that I talked about being stoned. I got paranoid for a short time, thinking that somehow the information about my past drug use would get back to my employer, but that passed.

      I do remember vivid, weird dreams, but that’s it.

      My personal theory is that painkillers don’t actually kill the pain, but they displace it so that one is aware of it, but it just doesn’t intrude into the consciousness like direct pain does.

      • Imo, it depends on both the painkiller and the physiology of the person taking it. From my personal experience, meloxicam, flexoril, and other anti-inflammatories seem to do a good job of actually killing a good amount of pain. Steroids are also very good at seeking and destroying pain, while messing with someone’s mood so they feel cheerful but act grouchy. Percocet and other narcotic painkillers, otoh, seem to merely displace pain, at best, while changing mood and muddying thinking. The anesthetic I had yesterday (my doctor called it “Twilight Sleep”) did an awesome job of killing pain.

        • Missionary Kid

          I have painkillers so rarely any more that I guess I should have prefaced my statement about them with that notation.

          • I have become something of an expert on painkillers. I am not happy about this :P.

            (Btw, Percocet is pure evil.)

            • ThetaBara

              I think it depends a lot on the type of pain. And that Vicodin is the evil one, at least to my body.

    • 1subgenius

      I think Tim Leary had some nitrous adventures.

    • Poison Ivy

      I remember a nitrous oxide experience from being a young tween and having a dental procedure. The song “Feelings” was playing on the tinny little speaker and I just recall it becoming sort of in surround sound and 3-D – that’s the only way I can describe it. It was like I was inside the song. Why it couldn’t have been a Beatles song or something worthwhile, I have always wondered. I suppose LRH would predict that I will experience an engram now every time I hear it. Mostly I experience extreme annoyance.

      • Observer

        That song annoys me even without the nitrous engram. Blech!

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Yes. I think PI’s experience is Worse than no anesthetic!

        • Zana

          When I was auditioning for musicals in the late 70’s and 80’s they were producing HAIR here in Los Angeles. Literally every other singer who came in sang “Feelings.” They had to ban anyone from singing Feelings. I dated the producer of it several years later and we howled remembering it. The would literally the poor singers when they started. Can you imagine listening to days and days of open auditions with hundreds of mediocre to good talent and literally HALF of them sing the same stupid song? I’m laughing so hard my cats are wondering about me!

  • Truthiwant

    Vance, can you expand on those love lines that the nurse whispered in to Hubbard’s ear?
    I bet that gave him a rock slam the next time he held the cans!

    • FistOfXenu

      Hubbard probably wrote his nutty fantasies someplace. But of course he wrote them so they sound like they weren’t said by humans. Something like “you magnificent fulfillment of all my fantasies and desires. Breathe deep while I worship your monumental manhood. When you wake up you will come to the address I’ve written on your manly chest with my lipstick. We will lose ourselves in passion and I will scream and writhe with satisfaction as you explode in me with your awesome powerhouse of fleshiness.”

      Oh shit. I think I just channelled Hubbard. Help me!

      • 1subgenius

        You’re too far gone. There is no hope for you now.

      • Observer

        You need to go wash your brain out with soap. Ugh.

        • FistOfXenu

          It has to be a Hubbard engram from a past life when we huffed nitrous together. Yup. That’s it. There’s only 1 way to make it go right. The Purif R/D. Give me a month and if I’m not dead you can watch Ron Residue drip out of my pores.

          • Bella Legosi

            Ewwww Fist! Damn my superflourious imagination and penchant for visualizations!

            >P

      • Truthiwant

        What poetry. Your lusty writing rivals 50 Shades of Grey.

        • FistOfXenu

          I think Hubbard is 1 of my BTs. I’ll have to run him out.

      • Missionary Kid

        No, you didn’t channel Hubbard. The writing’s too good.

        • Observer

          Zing!

      • And I don’t rent cars!

        SLAP! to the face. WHACK! to the other side.
        Feel better now?
        P.S. Was that as good for you as it was for me?

        • FistOfXenu

          That helped a bit. Still think I need a month of saunas and niacin overdosing. And Ron sludge oozing out of my skin.

          • Observer

            Will you stop that!

            • FistOfXenu

              As soon as I get all the Hubbard tar to drip out.

              I wonder. If I collect up all the Ron drippings do you think I’ll end up with enough to fill a life size LRH blow up doll? I could stick a pith helmet on it and sit it up in a Jeep and try and pass it off as the real Ron. We could see what DM does if he sees mysterious photos in the news papers of reported sightings of Ron.

            • And I don’t rent cars!

              Imagine the media’s mad scramble with these photos globally – first the Enquirer, then the Daily Mail, and so on. Oh yeah, can’t forget Freedum. Would it be worth it to you to suffer a couple of months of Purif for this?

            • FistOfXenu

              We could do the the blow up doll without filling it full of the Hubbard tar that oozes out of my pores in the sauna. I just want to get rid of this creepy Hubbardness.

            • And I don’t rent cars!

              Much better idea. I’m relieved.
              Speculative idea #524,352:
              Blowing up the doll will create the same effect – your breath also contains the molecular contents and structure of your Hubbardness engram so just ‘blow’ – instead of sweating it away.

            • Sherbet

              Don’t forget the ascot! (Yeah, and that’s what we wish lrh would have done — got his ass caught and tossed into the pokey with Mary Sue.)

            • Poison Ivy

              Your eyes are a stunning color.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              OSA! OSA!

            • Observer

              You’re safe. I’m blind as a bat without my glasses so I can’t see you.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Well you sure learned how to mock up the sciloon stare!!!

          • And I don’t rent cars!

            How will know your face is flushing from the niacin as opposed to flushing with embarrassment by the guilty pleasure of being restimulated by those sexual fantasies/engrams of yours?? Oops, I meant Ron’s.

            • FistOfXenu

              Just have to see if I start getting attacks of ranting full of fantasies of women and child birth and bad dialog.

  • Bella Legosi

    K….Blue Velvet is one of the weirdest movies I have ever seen……..had to say it!

    Go Tony!

    Now I am actually going to read the post. But damn, that pic brought back “mommy” scenes and I felt a bit dirty for a second!

    • Captain Howdy

      Soon as i saw the picture of “Frank” and the word “drugs’ in the title I knew it was going to be a good day.

      Hey Bella..do you wanna go for a fucking ride?

      • Bella Legosi

        Only if I can rock my Huey Lewis and the News and return some video tapes!!!!!

        • MO Mom

          Don’t be dissing Huey – he toured with the Tower of Power horn section.

          • Bella Legosi

            I assure you I was not! American Psycho has made me look and reflect on the music of Huey and Phil Collins in a very (but positive) light!

    • 1subgenius

      “Eraserhead”
      Just sayin’

      • Bella Legosi

        DUDE…………I know exactly what you were saying, but I really don’t know what the fuck I watched when I saw Eraserhead the first time. So I watched it again……..and then really really stoned……and that is when I quit and told myself David Lynch is just weird…….or I didn’t do enough acid! “Lost Highway” was the same damn thing! WTF did I just watch?????

        • 1subgenius

          I usually describe it as a nightmare while awake.

          • Bella Legosi

            lol yeah……..that’s pretty freaking accurate! That is one movie I really can not describe to someone else who has not seen it. I warn them there is a lot of creepy silence and shots full of nothing and what is in the movie is just……..weird……waking nightmare is straight forward and on the nose! I will steal this!

            • 1subgenius

              Anyone who watches that on drugs puts their mental health in jeopardy.
              But TM can help with that.

          • Captain Howdy

            Good description, because Lynch was trying to recreate the dream state in his films.

            Enough about DL..back to the other weirdo.

        • Captain Howdy

          “David Lynch is just weird”

          Did you know he is a republican? And that he’s pretty much quit making movies because he is the nominal leader of his own cult, which is bigger and richer than CofS? David Lynch runs TM Inc.

          • 1subgenius

            Thought Stopping Inc.

          • Bella Legosi

            No way Captain……..are you fucking with me? I know Dennis went Republican, but I haven’t heard anything about Lych in years!!! Bella feels an obsessive google search in the works!

            • Captain Howdy

              Not kidding.

            • Bella Legosi

              wow…….wonders……they do never cease!

            • Bella Legosi

              So I just googled “David Lynch” and came across this pic…………really? He sports an Eraserhead and republicans take him seriously? My god what the fuck has this world come to?

            • FistOfXenu

              Maybe politicians are as desparate to have celebrity endorsements as $cientarCONon?

            • Bella Legosi

              I don’t see why. Politicians prolly rate below Co$ on the trustability scale IMO!

            • FistOfXenu

              That can’t be right. I once met an honest politician. The only honest $cientarCONonists I ever met are exes.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Don’t worry.. Wouldn’t you rather see republicans with this ‘do if the alternative were trump’s? Was Trump’s? Whichever..

            • Bella Legosi

              Are you talking about the infamous son of an orangutan?

              That is a scary thought! Very astute comment as well!

              *visualizing Trump the Half Man Half Orangutan trying to speak to Congress.*

              I think is birth certificate is fake too >P muahahahah

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Lets play pin the tail on the donkey!

            • Observer

              That is Such. Bad. Hair.

            • Bella Legosi

              lol yup……or play keep away with his hair piece that totally isn’t a bad hair piece! *wink wink*

          • aquaclara

            Thank heavens, another republican. I like this.
            Now, TM. Not so much.

            Now stop picking on my damn party.
            We have a cult to clear!

            • Bella Legosi

              Hey, with Hal Lindsey and Sara Pailin your party really asks for the mocking……….hate to say it…….but I still wuv ya!

            • aquaclara

              Back at ya…! Still, it was fun yesterday seeing a couple Dems trying to put a toehold in a new party line on why the government needs access to all phone records.
              ๐Ÿ™‚

            • Bella Legosi

              Yeah, but try and get a gun database on line and holy shit is the republicans wound up. Cuz you know phones are sooooo much more dangerous then guns. A internet/phone info database is just as perverse as a gun data base. Give it 10 more years or another 9/11esk type thing and you will see it happen.

              ๐Ÿ˜›

              I am independent so I listen to all and thus laugh at all when the moment calls. CSPAN is the real comedy central once you get the procedural and legal lingo down IMO.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Three cheers for the Independants!!!!

            • Bella Legosi

              *does the Cabbage patch*

              Oh yeah
              Oh yeah
              Oh yeah

              Hip hop horray is too Co$! Bella does her own!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              [IMG]http://i42.tinypic.com/a4an9g.jpg[/IMG]

            • N. Graham

              How long will it be until there is a gun application on your cell phone? (i.e., you can shoot someone with your phone.)

            • Bella Legosi

              Oh damn! I am sure the CIA is already in testing phase and China is already way way ahead of us on that app!

            • aquaclara

              well, yes, part of the country seems to be a wee bit sensitive about a gun database; I’m just as familiar with some parts of the country that advertise it proudly….
              (now didn’t that make you laugh???)

            • Bella Legosi

              Yes it did

            • 1subgenius

              (Playground voice):”You started it.”

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I have two answers to that! Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi!

              And no, I am not a Republican.
              I hate everybody equally.

            • Bella Legosi

              Touche touche!

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Weird ain’t it!

            • Bella Legosi

              Yes, I am still in disbelief although I am multitasking this and the googled info!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              He will happily hook you up with a TM instructor for the right amount of money so you can get your sacred and personal chant!

            • FistOfXenu

              Or you could look it up on a list on the internet.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Exactly!
              If you have to pay to learn how to meditate because you didn’t read a damn book…
              You deserve to be parted with your money.

            • Bella Legosi

              The look says it all really

          • Phil McKraken

            David Lynch made “Mulholland Drive,” which is the greatest movie ever. Stop picking on him.

            • Bella Legosi

              I am really not trying to pick on him…………I really do not get any of his movies. I even watched Mulholland Drive the other day with apprehension (based on Eraserhead, The Lost Highway, and Blue Velvet I didn’t want to wast 2 hours on something I knew I was going to come out confounded with) and have to say it was a little more coherent, but definitely David Lynch!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I still miss Twin Peaks!!!

            • Bella Legosi

              I forgot about that one! Haven’t seen it due to my bias.

            • ThetaBara

              I’ll pick on him. Hated his misogynist movies! Twin Peaks was interesting at first (especially for tv) but you could totally tell there was no story arc.
              Good riddance!

            • Captain Howdy

              Dude! I was worshiping David Lynch when the rest of you were watching Star Wars and Back To The Future.

              Lynch and Kubrick are my fav directors.

            • Bella Legosi

              Kubrick was a weird one too! Obsessive perfectionist! Have you noticed all the kick ass artists have a sadistic type of lunacy that comes out? I love his flix, except “Lolita” that flick just disgusted and infuriated me. I still think a lot of 2001 was Kubrick showing off, but seeing as how he was sooooo far ahead of his time with that flick (and that he was sorta crazy) I give him a free pass. I will fall asleep to that movie and every damn time the Monolith goes off I wake up (not to mention that frequency it puts out really really messes with any cats or dogs in the room)

            • N. Graham

              I liked all of his movies except Barry Lyndon (and Eyes Wide Shut). That one could put me to sleep in a minute. He was my favorite director too and my favorite of his was A Clockwork Orange. Because of the movie I read the Anthony Burgess book which is now one of my favorites also.
              David Lynch was just too bizarre for my tastes although I liked The Elephant Man.

            • Bella Legosi

              When I saw Eyes Wide Shut I really did not like it. The piano music was grating on my ears and very irritating. I am with you on Clockwork Orange on both counts! I introduced my youngest brother to Clockwork (movie and book) and he became an instant fan. He wondered why he went so long without seeing it or reading it!

            • 1subgenius

              Lina Wertmuller, director, FTW.

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lina_Wertm%C3%BCller

              (I thought I couldn’t despise Madonna any more than I did, and then she did a remake of “Swept Away”. Blasphemy!)

              Giancarlo Giannini, actor, FTW

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giancarlo_Giannini

              Wise Blood, Seven Beauties, Swept Away, movies, FTW
              That is all.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Oh my god, I saw a little bit (maybe 15 minutes) of Madonna’s “Swept Away”.
              That was the worst thing I think I have ever saw captured on film.
              It was worse than a Loni Anderson 1970’s movie of the week!!!

            • 1subgenius

              The original is a gem.
              Rich bitch on yacht cruise.
              Socialist deck hand.
              Marooned on island.
              Tables turned.

            • N. Graham

              Worse than Battlefield Earth?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I never subjected myself to Battlefield Earth.

          • Bella Legosi

            I went to the TM Inc site and the movie just started and I was struck by the emotion these people still have left. At least they have that! Still reading up on this, but it was an observation I thought was in stark contrast to that of the videos Co$ puts out of robotic, non blinking, followers.

            haha “Finding quietness” I hate it when it is quiet! Always have! Silence is my psyches worst enemy! When I am quiet everyone around me assumes I must be really pissed off.

            • Captain Howdy

              They have their own version of Clearwater in Iowa.

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maharishi_Vedic_City,_Iowa

            • Sherbet

              Nah, those Vedic people are probably sincere about their philosophy, whereas Clearwater is populated with zombies and zombie masters.

            • FistOfXenu

              It’s just a different flavor kool aid.

            • Captain Howdy

              TM inc is a billion dollar business, and the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi was every bit the conman/creep LRH was.

            • Sherbet

              Sigh, and Naive Sherbet is fooled once more.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              That is why we love you.

            • Ciru

              Is that the one where they bounce up and down on their asses and pretend that they’re flying?

            • FistOfXenu

              That’s them. And wait for it – that’s how they develop their own super powerz so they can govern the world some day.

            • 1subgenius

              “Probably”=needs moar googling.

            • Bella Legosi

              Thanks for the link!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Meditating can be awesome….Organizing and administrating it, fucks it up.

            • Bella Legosi

              The only time I have come close to an experience like that is when I am listening to Mozart, just the instrumentals (no singing). Other then that I would swear by Zeus’s beard I have ADD!

          • grundoon

            Lynch brightened proudly. โ€œYou just got to stay regular in your
            meditation,โ€ he eventually said. โ€œItโ€™s the transcendent that does
            everything good for us human beings. You get a key that opens the door
            to that with Transcendental Meditation as taught by Maharishi Mahesh
            Yogi.
            http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/magazine/david-lynch-transcendental-meditation.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

          • Zana

            do you mean Transcendental Meditation? THAT TM?

            • Captain Howdy

              Yes

        • sugarplumfairy

          Just say no!!! =)

          • Bella Legosi

            =-)

            I say, “Not today.” Tends to work out better! And as for LSD……….nope, never was a fan and am content on the level of weird I am currently positioned in! So, no worries SPF!

  • Sunny Sands

    “…at the listโ€™s top, a nitrous oxide dental or surgical or obstetrical engram.” It’s so creepy how he brings childbirth into everything.

    • Poison Ivy

      Yes, it’s truly a sick fetish of his. Creep factor very high.

  • 10oriocookies

    The shills were out in force last night in the comments section. 2 cents were flying. I gave them a dollar…..
    As for the nitrous, does this mean I should stop doing whippits? Just kidding, I dont partake.

    • Bella Legosi

      Don’t kills a ton of brain cells and all it is is snowy vision and everyone sounding like Darth Vador!

      Oh to be 15 again, but KNOW BETTER!

    • 10oriocookies

      The moderator at the site decided not to post my comments. I violated the terms by citing some court cases. I will try again.

      • Poison Ivy

        Why would citing court cases violate terms? Aren’t they public record by the very virtue of being court cases?

    • SciWatcher

      Which comments section?

    • Poison Ivy

      Ha ha!

  • Sidney18511

    YULIYA THE RUSSIAN SPY HAS RELEASED HER CONFESSION ON YOUTUBE. Karan has posted them on ESMB. Great, great stuff. Make some popcorn, or better yet, open a bottle of wine and enjoy….

    http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?31980-Please-read-and-share-but-do-not-reply-here/page25

    • Couch_Incident

      If you’ve watched the videos, what’s the gist? Anything interesting or is it just the public train wreck of someone with what we’d politely call “issues?” I’m out the door to do battle with a visiting Japanese delegation and have a suspicion that if I look for the videos tonight, they’ll have been taken down. TIA.

      • Captain Howdy

        If you watch the video you get to see the tampon cam and Yulia reveals you don’t actually wear it. And the video also confirms that every chick in Russia with the name “Yulia” (or thereabouts) has huge cans you can..err..grasp..or something

        EDIT. OOPs I wasn’t expecting the picture to come up. It wasn’t suppose to. Sorry ladies. lol

        • Couch_Incident

          Thanks Cap’n! I think that’s about the most valuable thing to come out of this entire affair!

          • BuryTheNuts2

            I would say you guys are right!

            • Captain Howdy

              Where’s Derek so i can show him what “going too far” looks like?

      • BosonStark

        The most interesting part was Yuliya describing getting caught while filming the Portland Org speech of Miscavige. I’m not sure if she was in Portland or whether she was taking video of the video presentation. Also, they put her up in a hotel for a week, while interrogating her. I guess they didn’t want to hold her in a “Church” basement for too long. It’s a bit strange, Yuliya having documentation for all this (hotel bills), but maybe the cult wanted to establish that they paid, and weren’t holding her against her will.

        Miscavige’s Portland speech was apparently so important and secretive I’m surprised they didn’t turn it into OT9.

        Yuliya seems quite smart, and fairly coherent. In the end I was thinking, even with all her troubles, and things not working out as planned, it’s probably preferable to a member spending another decade or even year as a Sea Org member trapped in the cult.

        As an outsider — never a member — I would like someone who is close to Miscavige, and in a trusted position, to video his outbursts or slapping someone, and then leave the Sea Org. I don’t think there’s much point in people who don’t have a lot of access, be they journalists or former members like Yuliya, trying to infiltrate and play spy. They should leave that type of thing up to some adventurous journalist.

        It is kind of a new wrinkle in the mix though, and a manifestation of what will happen to some former members who start reading true things on the Internet and how CoS operates.

        • Couch_Incident

          Thanks for the summary!

  • Bella Legosi

    “And maybe behind all that was a desire to keep the source of his enlightenment (drugs) secret from his followers.”

    I have thought the same thing. Although, experienced as I am with drugs, I would say that I would admit having mind blowing epiphanies while on them, but would also say that they are dangerous. However, taking this in to account I would have to theorize that Hub learned early on that drug users or addicts (they are not one and the same) are a lot harder to control. A user may have a break through that is not controlled and performed by Co$; therefore it is easier to manufacture that “breakthrough” with mind control rather then drugs. Drug addicts you could potentially control if you controlled their supply, but that is inviting a lot of other potentially damning actions; like drug trafficking risking the addict “telling all” to the police, not to mention that is just evil and what pimps are famous for! So, back to the point I was trying to make; being against all forms of intoxicants and the consumption of them seems fitting for a mind controlling cult! Especially one that claims to, “cancel your reactive mind”.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      You got it, Bella. The fact that field auditors are practically extinct now in scientology is to me a reliable barometer of how rabid and anxious Miscavige is about losing control of his dwindling cash cows and human ATM’s. Scientology is set up exactly as you framed it. Control one’s deductive reasoning, logic, recognition patterns, rule those “cognitive” functions above all, and reinforce mental highs from every corner and every angle. The hooked customer must come to a scientology facility to get the next high. Oh, and yes drugs were prevalent in the 60’s and 70’s. In the 40’s too but this period I gather from reading, but the 50’s not as much. I’d peg the 60’s and 70’s when many of his issues about drugs came out and eventually the Purif as the most troubling time for Hubbard and the organizations.

      • Bella Legosi

        Oh how I love it when you elaborate!

        ๐Ÿ˜€

        Thank you!

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          I just upvoted. Now, I’m reconsidering. Yes, I see what all commenters mean. I never really gave it a second thought before.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            I feel like Disqus is fair gaming us!

          • DeElizabethan

            Yes, it’s getting annoying. Also I may miss being able to vote at all when reading notifications because of the time element. Then those I really like may think I don’t like what they say because I didn’t vote. Too much room for error if someone is keeping track and therefore unreliable if some real purpose is neccessary. Oh, what fun!!

    • Even non-cult religions often have trouble dealing with ecstasy that is not religious in nature. Sex especially, but also drugs, rock n’roll, good music of any kind, intellectual and artistic pursuits, even tasty food. Cults really clamp down, trying to destroy all pleasure not given by the cult.

  • Truthiwant

    Just a comment about Disqus.
    Disqusโ€™s idea of being able to see who has up voted for you is, in my opinion, not all that good.

    Voting, historically, has almost always been an anonymous right of an individual.

    In Disqus, now being able to see who positively voted could be unfair on the voter.

    Iโ€™ll give you an example:

    You read a slightly controversial argument but you agree with some of the points in it and you decide to up vote it. Later on, somebody replies to the argument giving various reasons why it is wrong according to that person and lots of people give that reply up votes. Now, however, people are going to begin to
    look at who voted the original argument up and this could lead to a certain discrimination. A sort of โ€I see what that person really thinksโ€ idea.

    The whole thing is fine for the general comments and the obviously good ones but it is
    now risky for those controversial opinions.

    The answer is, of course, โ€œDonโ€™t voteโ€ but it is disappointing sometimes not to see any positive
    votes on an argument to the point that you might not read it, thinking that it is not interesting.

    In all these months, I have never once been curious about WHO voted for me. It is
    always a pleasure to get an up arrow but it does not matter to me who it came from.

    The great thing about the comments on this blog, apart from sometimes the wonderful
    humour, is that they are instructive. People over the course of time realize new
    things and hence change their minds about arguments. It is called learning and
    I, for one, have learnt a lot about the cult from everyone on this site.

    • Observer

      I agree … and it’s distracting.

      • PreferToBeAnon2

        we were seconds apart in our comments…gmta!

        • Observer

          And now you can see that I have upvoted you.

          • PreferToBeAnon2

            this is going to be interesting… my first inclination was to upvote you back!

            • Observer

              Hahaha!

      • Truthiwant

        Also you can get a sort of “I voted for you so why didn’t you vote for me” thing going.

    • PreferToBeAnon2

      Tony, seeing who does the upvoting–this new Disqus feature–sucks. It’s
      distracting and doesn’t contribute the conversation here. In protest, I
      am going to refrain from upvoting (don’t think I don’t love you).

      • Poison Ivy

        Here here!

      • richelieu jr

        I like it. And I want to see who the ‘down voters are’ which I assume is the reason. This isn’t ‘new’ with Discus… Other sites I’m on that use Discus have always allowed this. I suspect Tony may have given the OK to stop Mr DV…

        • Observer

          Except that you can’t see the downvoters, only the ups. I downvoted you as a demonstration.

          I’d just rather it a be anonymous.

          • sister wendy

            totally! what a drag- we want to see the downvoters…..

            • DeElizabethan

              Heck yes, plus it would be a hell of a lot more fun!

    • Sidney18511

      Disqus has been acting really hinky for me lately, example: I have to press the up vote 3 times before it “takes” .

      • Bella Legosi

        I have had the problem in the past! I wonder if this will hinder people voting at all cuz they don’t want everyone to know they agree? Personally I don’t care either way, I was content with the system before, and am really not surprised with this new feature! However, this must make OSA’s job a hell of a lot easier to group us evil SP’s and Wonder Wogs!

        • BuryTheNuts2

          You are just too damn funny to NOT up-vote!

          • DeElizabethan

            This is funny. Now I see the names of others who voted. I really don’t care about it, just more memory to digest for the program maybe. I don’t think I will even look at who votes for me as I don’t want to be partial. heh!

            We put our opinion out there and who likes it fine, who doesn’t fine, and that’s my opinion!

            • DeElizabethan

              O goodie, It doesn’t tell you who voted you up on your own comment, just tried. GOOD!

            • aquaclara

              I up arrowed your wonderful comment. But I watched Disqus make the numbers invert completely. It may be an iPad problem with Disqus.

            • DeElizabethan

              Thanks Aqua, I’m on iMac and never saw an inverted arrow, so you’re probably right about iPad and the Disqus dance.

        • MO Mom

          Upvoting your own comment is similar to liking what ever you have posted on Facebook. I figure that of course you liked it, you posted it. Anything additional is rather vain. I actually unfriended someone for constantly doing that. Clogged up my notifications with ‘XX liked XX’s status’.

          • Bella Legosi

            Yup. That is kinda how I view voting for yourself too. I deactivated the FB account tho. I never used it and got really tired of the drama that went on between friends and family (which always would filter down to me with the phrase, “Did you see what so and so posted on FB?”)

            • FistOfXenu

              FB is just another NSA plot for hoovering up data.
              ๐Ÿ˜›

            • Bella Legosi

              pffft it isn’t a plot……..its their invention

              ๐Ÿ˜€

              Where else can you mine soooo much information that is willingly posted? I find it hilarious when people say, “Oh it’s okay……I deleted that post so it won’t come back to bite me on the ass! Besides I have a 1st amendment right to say what I want!” (this has actually been said to me in a serious manner too, I looked at that person as if they ate paint chips as a kid or huffed air plane glue)

              *palm, forehead slap*

              The delete button is only in your mind! And people do have a right to say whatever they want, but when it comes to taking responsibility or accounting for what people post is always a very different issue! Kinda why I hate facebook.

            • Observer

              And that’s why I never post anything too personal or dramatic on FB. Once it’s out there you can never get it back.

            • coonellie

              I’m with you! I think Baby Coonellie is the only one amongst her friends that doesn’t have any social media accounts.

              **Rant ahead**
              Every time I see an article about an employer using FB/Twitter, etc. against an employee (and laws do NOT protect employees), a prospective job applicant being forced to give their passwords (if they want the job…read jobs in law enforcement or even department stores), or some teen who was lured into a deadly trap I print and give it to Baby C. I told her that giving away info like her friends do is like leaving the front door of the house open, laying naked in bed and putting a sign up that says, “I’m stupid, come get me.”

              For anyone who thinks I’m against progress, I’m not. We have plenty of technology in the house, but we choose technology that works FOR us. If I’m going to prostitute my personal information, I’d prefer payment. Giving it away for free is something I learned not to do early in life.

              Besides, our privacy laws are simply not strong enough to protect us from ourselves. Just ask the ACLU.

              **Rant over**

            • Bella Legosi

              Good for her!

              Food for thought; about two years ago I got a visit from Portland PD burglary division. They questioned me about the house I rented from my lil brother’s aunt 6 years prior and if I had known she had just got a crap load of gold coins. I told them that I didn’t talk to this woman after I had moved out of the house and didn’t know about any coins. They then pulled out my FB account that they had downloaded and printed on paper and asked about the pictures I had taken of myself, then said that a woman who generally looked like me was taped hawking said coins. Here is the kicker……..I had deactivated that account 2 months prior, yet they had everything I had uploaded or posted. I went with them to the coin shop to NOT be identified as the girl who stole the coins and after they told me that I didn’t know just how much the police loved FB. Especially the Parole department. I told them that I was a conspiracy theorist, so yeah, I could believe what a wet dream facebook was for law enforcement!

              So, let that be a lesson to one and all!

              I loved your rant by the way! So true!

              ***Come to find out the coins were stolen by this woman’s cousin with the help of her own son, who Bella had extreme verbal words with when he called her up at work demanding rent money for his mom a week early AND threatened to have Bella and her family kicked out. Did Bella throw that little fucker under the bus as far as Portland PD was concerned? YES SHE DID!***

            • Observer

              If FB weren’t the best means available for keeping in touch with international friends and family I’d give it up in a heartbeat for that very reason, though I blame Zuckerberg and not the NSA (yes, I know you were being facetious). I enjoy FB, but they’re underhanded in the way they go about changing security settings without telling you and having the new default settings set to public. And it keeps nagging me to give them my phone number and a bunch of other personal info I choose not to have published on the Internet. If something better comes along I’m outta there.

            • FistOfXenu

              Maybe Zuckerberg’s an NSA tool? ๐Ÿ˜‰

            • Observer

              Or maybe he’s just a tool

            • FistOfXenu

              Glad somebody picked that up.

            • Bella Legosi

              *hands you a tin foil crown*

              Here you might need this

              >P

              Enjoy

              http://youtu.be/8BZxLM3BpOk
              According to ONN Operation Overlord was really the CIA

            • FistOfXenu

              OOh! I’m King of the Tinfoil Empire! Thanks!

            • Bella Legosi

              Use the magical tin foil of truth wisely, wise Overlord. Respect it. Cuz if you don’t you just might find yourself strapped to a nuke inside a volcano by an angry mob, lead my Little Boots and Tom Cruise. Since they won’t give Bella the launch codes, she will not be able to help disperse said angry mob!

            • And I don’t rent cars!

              Hey! Who said you could borrow my tin foil hat?

            • aquaclara

              “hoovering” – what a great, all round kind of mopping up word! I can use this in so many ways. But the most important one for me is that well, since my dog is a) smart, and b) afraid of the vacuum, I have run out of words to use in the house to reflect the actual warning that I will be turning on the Very Scary Vaccuum Cleaner. Vac. VC. and now, the most current, Mr. V.
              He has caught on to this, though, so thank you for saving me from upset Puppy Dog Clara.
              Hoovering…heh. thanks.

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              Kind of a double vacuumdre, as in J. Edgar Hoovering

          • I’m the same way. That really bugs me when I see people doing that on Facebook.

            • ThetaBara

              I will do it on fb if I am REALLY excited about whatever it is (changing my status to “married” for example) but not regular old posts. Since it shows that it was me I figure it can’t hurt.

        • Poison Ivy

          Ah, but doesn’t this new system throw a monkey wrench into the new super secret complex brilliance of “down arrow tech”?

          • Bella Legosi

            You would think but it doesn’t show who downvotes; just the up votes! Media Lush and I found that out earlier! The first time I ever downvoted myself!

            I have also noticed this past week or so that you can no longer see how many upvotes you have on your own profile on disqus. It shows others up score, but no longer displays yours. I been playing around with it today and haven’t been able to see mine in almost two weeks. It might be on my end, but everyone else’s comes up. I wonder if I sign out and then drag the cursor over my name, maybe it will come up, but I am lazy and not really concerned with my score! But, it is an observation that I am curious to know if this isn’t on my end and that others have seen (or in this case NOT seen) what I am talking about.

            • Poison Ivy

              I didn’t even know such a thing existed. What is this, a contest?

            • Bella Legosi

              No, but it does feel good to know someone out there agrees with you……thousands of times! You feel somewhat validated and encouraged IMO.

              Which I wish disqus also put up the stats on how many downvotes one gets…..but they never have.

              Example:John P. Has over 1,700 comments made here at the Bunker and of those 1,700 comments he has received close to 10,000 up votes……if this was a contest, he surly would be the front running winner and to be quite honest he would deserve it! Looking at the stats closer I believe BTN would win, for she has over 22,000 votes. It interests me, what can I say?

              **Now it is working and making me out to be a liar! Oh Disqus you befuddled bastard!***

          • Observer

            You can only see who upvoted. Downy will remain anonymous.

            • Poison Ivy

              Ooooh….that’s a nasty double standard! Perhaps Disqus has been infiltrated by OSA!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              There’s a protest being formed now, PI. Also, rumors of a Bunkers Aid Concert in the works. Signs needed (with Bunker quality Snark and Spit)

              [IMG]http://i44.tinypic.com/dzw581.jpg[/IMG]

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Secret operations are essential in war; upon them the army relies to make its every move.
            Sun Tzu

      • media_lush

        Half an hour ago hitting the up vote arrow didn’t show who voted on an iPad, now it does. I think whoever’s in charge at Disqus definitely drinks way too much coffee and misses all the meetings.

      • And I don’t rent cars!

        Considering how many people have been having trouble with Disqus these past two months (it wouldn’t even let me use their “send feedback” feature when I have trouble with it!), you’d think that instead of wasting their time on developing this new voting feature they would fix their existing problems with their software. But then again, if no one can use their “send feedback,” how would they even know we are having problems?!
        Some posters on this blog are considering no longer posting because of all the hassle they are having. And that would be a great shame.
        Who owns Disqus anyway? Google?

        • stateofcircle

          I wasn’t going to jump in on this thread since everything’s pretty much been said, but AIDRC and I typed about this a few articles back, in which a post of mine had myseteriously been deleted and, after trying to repost it a few times, it keep going away…there was absolutely nothing inappropriate about it, and it wasn’t the link contained within it, as I just reposted the link and it worked. I realize it’s just a post, but I, like may of us, spent some time on it and felt it was valuable to the conversation. This was about the third time something like this has happened to me. In addition, Disqus – especially on my iPad – refreshes itself constantly, which pisses me off for 3 huge reasons: 1. One would assume that when it “refreshes” itself, it would contain the new comments. It does not. 2. When I am reading comments far down the page, the little “new comment” bars pop up above and below. I usually click on those after I’ve read through the comments…it’s a nice little treat to have new comments to read once you’re finished with the ones you were reading, which brings me to 3. If you’re far down in the comments and it refreshes, you have to keep clicking and clicking and clicking “Load More Comments” until you hopefully find your spot. Now, the amount of time that the bunker takes from my life is already concerning, I don’t need it taking up even more. This has gotten so bad that Mr. Stateofcircle recognizes the specific angry grunt I let out when this happens, which is often. And although it seems to have lessened recently, sometimes the comments refresh or just come up as if they’ve take a ride in the TARDIS to a few hours ago and don’t show them to be up to date.

          When I am on the iPad, which is also often, I have to click the arrow or ‘reply’ or ‘post’ several times before it takes, like some others have mentioned. Incredibly frustrating. The other thing that annoys me is that if I’m on my phone and I am trying to write a comment that is longer than a few lines, there is no way for me to scroll within the text box, so once it passes that point, I can’t see or edit it. I’ve tried everything including different browsers. This may not be totally Disqus-specific, but it doesn’t happen with other sites I’ve used with text boxes.

          Upon first glance, a lot of this stuff can seem stupid and ridiculous. But the thing is, we are an extremely active community who take this at least somewhat seriously. We aren’t trolls and we certainly aren’t doing this in vain. We come here every day to discuss and debate about a topic that we feel is very important. We are pretty tight knit and our relationship to this site and each other has grown beyond that of a simple commenting community, which I think is great. That being said, I think the issues that we have should be taken seriously and I hope that Disqus can resolve them sooner rather than later.

          • And I don’t rent cars!

            What a great post! The details of all your efforts and problems to post comments are very clear and very understandable. I have tried to write something similar to send to Disqus but could not break down each step of the problem like you have done so well – so I gave up in frustration trying to explain it. Thank you.
            P.S. Have you copied and pasted your post in the “send feedback” feature and sent it to Disqus? If you don’t have time or your iPad is not co-operating, would like for me to do it for you?

            • stateofcircle

              Thanks AIDRC! You’re more than welcome to send anything I wrote to Disqus!

            • And I don’t rent cars!

              Consider it done – as of 2 minutes ago.
              Thank you for letting me use it. It gives a well written breakdown of some of the problems some (a lot?) of us are experiencing.

          • ThetaBara

            I agree. The comments forum is so valuable here. Let’s hope it can get a tuneup to keep it working!

          • stateofcircle

            I think this is probably futile now, since everyone’s probably over at the Yuliya story, but here is the link from my post that wouldn’t show up the other day. It’s a pretty good primer on the Placebo Effect, and the video is worth a watch:

            http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2011/08/15/the-amazing-power-of-the-placebo-effect/

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Yippee. Great link. I am bored to tears with the crazy Russian Woman.
              She just needs psych meds and some cookies.

              This is way better….thanks!

            • aquaclara

              Well, Bury and State, I was just enjoying both your comments and clicked up arrows for each. I am also bored with the crazy Russian lady… Well, my one happy up arrow to you shows up like a drunken mess. Look! A minus 3 on the up and the down. Omg. Sorry. I keep re clicking but as you might see, now at a negative 7 and a negative 5 – Disqus hates us!
              I need a glass of wine…
              This is on an iPad but that should make no difference. Negative numbers? Really, Disqus??

      • richelieu jr

        Still doesn’t work on my iPad. That’s why I haven’t seemed to be around of late (probably good to give you guys a break from my rants. Even I was getting bored with me)

        • ThetaBara

          I’m downvoting that because I miss your rants!

          • richelieu jr

            Sweet.. Too bad I can’t prove it was YOU!

    • aquaclara

      I agree with all you’ve said here. Maybe this is a feature that can be turned off somehow?

      • Truthiwant

        I’m sure Tony votes sometimes but it makes it very difficult for him now as everybody can see who he voted. It could create rivalry.

        • Bella Legosi

          He could still vote, just in a guest profile. That is shitty tho. You shouldn’t feel bad cuz you agreed with a comment. I upvote a lot of comments, but I do have some standards. If you make me laugh out loud for reals you get an upvote and if I really love what you have said I not only upvote ya but comment saying as much too!

        • richelieu jr

          Tony has always commented when he had something to say. He’s corrected me on occasion..

          • Truthiwant

            You’re probably right. However I am just trying to make a point.

    • 1subgenius

      inb4nsa

      • Bella Legosi

        Makes you wonder what NSA dug up on Co$ doesn’t it???

        • Poison Ivy

          And why we still hear nothing but….crickets!

          (Or in the case of us NE USA residents this summer, cicadas!)

          • Bella Legosi

            Good point!

            I have said it before and I shall say it again; please for the love of Uncle Cosmo; let the government be amassing evidence to that when it comes time for Co$ to be brought up on a slew of charges with little hope or excuse to worm out of them. I am hopeful, but not naive. But I can not help but think that there are many enemies Co$ has made with in the government over its history.

    • FistOfXenu

      Good thoughtful post Truth. It’s just like you say and it’s not as simple as just click on the up arrow and that’s all. They need to waste less time inventing features we don’t need and just get the damn thing to work reliably.

      • Poison Ivy

        Here here!

    • BuryTheNuts2

      See what you did there? You just made my point from yesterday about my voting was my own personal way to deal with my cognitive dissonance!
      Now I am just going to look hypocritical and inconsistent!
      You make a great point about seeing valid things in both sides of an argument. I may be up-voting a particular sentiment or statement that I like that is buried inside a post that is in opposition to my overall opinion.

      OK, voting rant over now!

      • Poison Ivy

        Yes, I often upvote two sides of an argument, just because both posters made such cogent arguments. I like the way people here think, and I’ll even upvote someone I don’t agree with at times if they’ve expressed themselves logically and passionately.

        • Captain Howdy

          That’s why you’re the “Queen of Nice”

    • George Layton

      Would it work if you up voted and then posted, “I didn’t just up vote you!”, that way folks could see you were just sitting there enjoying the view of both side of the fence?

    • richelieu jr

      I don’t mind. You can always use your avatar and if you want to say why you ‘voted’ up, you are free to do so…. I find it less iffy than a ‘like’ for example… I feel uncomfortable ‘liking’ someone describing being raped but I would definitely give an ‘up’ for courage…

      What i don’t like is the constant pressure to force people to use their birth names on Googel+ ad FaceBook. I just had a problem on Google+ where their robot said my given name wasn’t real and asked me to prove it (still refusing to send birth certificate, driving license, etc THEY DID ASK FOR THIS INFO). I tried they said it wasn’t sufficient, and overruled me. They say it is ‘help me keep in touch with friends and family who would know me under that name’. Bullshit; It’s so they can track my sales and economic movements and sell this info to advertizers…

      Strangely, ‘Richelieu Jr’ is still OK with them. Morons.

      What happens when someone wants to say something online their boss might not like?

    • DeElizabethan

      Hey, thanks for bringing it to my attention as hadn’t seen before. I agree with what you say.
      Tony or whoever, has just made it more interesting huh?

      • Truthiwant

        I don’t know who is in charge of how Disqus works. I doubt if it has anything to do with Tony and if there was a possibility of a setting, I’m sure it would be turned off.

    • DeElizabethan

      Excellent explanation.

  • aquaclara

    The Channel 4 documentary is intriguing. Maybe our UK’ers will live blog during the show to give the rest of us a taste of what’s happening?! Pleeeezzz!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      The story about the two investigators and their 24 year run is one of the most fascinating “new” stories I’ve heard recently. If just this one story was shown in all countries, it would educate and innoculate all potential wog customers and recruits. If a live blog comes up I’m sure we’ll hear, but if not, you can bet there will be video.

      • aquaclara

        Well, we will be waving and wagging our Brit friends on in support as they watch for all of us!!!

    • RMycroft

      Channel 4’s comments are already flooded with Scientologists complaining about a program that they haven’t seen yet.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Ah, those rascals …. Remote Viewing again?

        • RMycroft

          Or OSA .. obtained .. some advance screener copies for them to watch, if they weren’t too busy stealing photocopy paper again.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            That could be too. But the lowly OSA Volunteer Spies/DeFrienders don’t need to read no stinkin’ entheta.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    “running water and flapping drill belts” says it all

    • BosonStark

      Try to let your water walk to avoid engrams.

      • Sherbet

        I think lrh’s flapping gums have caused more engrams than dentistry.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    “which would have explained (to his satisfaction) why he abused his wife and had rotting teeth.”

    Scientology is all about avoiding trips to the psychiatrist. Just do scientology and you can find an excuse for poor judgment, lack of social skills, irrational behavior. Then Ethics Dept will give you something else to fear and guilt up about until you morph into the Ideal Scientologist: You can no longer trust yourself, only Ron.

    And a note on scientology dentists, did you know that some will Not use anesthetics but instead have the patient doing versions of TR’s before and after? If a member uses so much as aspirin, or antibiotics, or anesthesia, they have expensive and time consuming scientological programs and cleanses they must do each time. It’s almost like it’s a racket.

    • Captain Howdy

      “It’s almost like it’s a racket”

      HaHaHaHa! Good one

    • Bella Legosi

      Jesus, real life Dr. Giggles? That is straight out of a nightmare Hole!

      I have never been gassed. Dentists today really do not like using it. When I had major work done I would get up to 5 novocaine shots. I wondered why I would feel stoned afterwords (that was only when I got 5 or more). Come to find out dentists don’t use novocaine anymore, instead use Xylocaine which works, doesn’t last quite as long, and doesn’t give you any euphoric effects that I am aware of.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        I personally could not believe it when I started hearing about this and don’t know what % actually torture themselves this way. More and more dentists are now using anesthetics which is the only sane way for heavy work as far as I’m concerned. And yes, you have to ask and even research anything you are given these days since it’s such a cornucopia. But back to sci members…this is a good example of just how deeply f*ck’d in the head some become. I consider scientology one of the deepest and most comprehensive experiment on mind control in this century.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Well leave it to Scientology.
          I am still not over the Chiropractors doing an adjustment over the phone.

          Scientology never ceases to leave me saying WTF!

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            What? oh my that is too funny. Really? Were there leeches and tarot cards involved too?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              No kidding…MLT and Victoria Pandora told this story one day.
              SEARED into my brain…forevah!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Remote cracking? That cracks me up.

            • Observer

              And there’s your scientific proof: you’ve just been remotely cracked. Up.

            • Sherbet

              I wonder if, when the chiro makes his bogus adjustment over the phone, the patient has to yell “CRACK!”

          • 1subgenius

            I always thought a do-it-yourself massage parlor would be a good business to start.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Oooh yeah, and you could have performance based tipping for REALZ.

            • 1subgenius

              In my town they were thinking of making it legal to actually give a massage in a “massage parlor”.

            • RMycroft

              And does this story have a happy ending?

            • Captain Howdy

              Ha Ha Detroit

        • Bella Legosi

          I agree with 100% certainty, 100% with what you have said. The paranoia of medical doctors and pharmacuticals is very telling, and I am still amazed about the paranoia instilled in Clams regarding “scents”. That really blew my mind that someone can be controlled to the point of doubting one of their very own senses! What about that is “religion”???? Mind control baby!

          *Paging Dr. Feelgood! Paging Dr. Feelgood! Your 2pm appointment is ready! One moment Mr. Hubbard. The doctor will be right in to see you. Would you like a glass of water?*

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            I just remembered that it helps to take any major event or time in sci history and compare it to what legal or criminal trouble Hubbard was in at the time. The real story/purpose of whatever wackiness pops up can often be explained by this comparison (and not metaphorically either). Some of the FDA raids for example or his on/off attempts for religious cloaking meant that drugged up members could be a problem for his cloaking or hiding or getting the authorities to stop poking around.

            http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?23840-Criminal-timeline-of-Scientology/page10

            http://www.lermanet.com/scientologyscandals/criminal.htm

            • Bella Legosi

              You really blew my mind with that statement! I have never thought of it in that way before! Thank you!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              There are so many who have painstakingly cobbled the pieces together, different folks of different strokes, across all the forums. My gratitude is immense for each one…. these timelines just make all the mysteries and confusions and lies line up like marathon dominoes.

      • Poison Ivy

        (I know the writer of Dr. Giggles!)

  • Sherbet

    Reading lrh’s simplistic “facts” which explain and prove just about anything has the effect of anesthesia on me. I have to read and reread before the words sink in, while I fight off the urge to doze. What a snooze lrh’s writings are! Plus, did he ever say or write anything that he hadn’t pulled out of his ample a** during a session of rambling? It’s so obviously made up as he went along. It’s still incredible to me that so many people fell for — and paid big money for — lrh’s fantasy fiction masquerading as science.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      “I have to read and reread before the words sink in, while I fight off the urge to doze.”

      This is why no one (except for Vance) has ever read Dianetics!

      Sorry Vance…just kidding! In reality I know there were 3 people who actually read it.

      • Sherbet

        Vance, lrh, and lrh’s editor.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          “and lrh’s editor”

          Say WHAT?

          • Sherbet

            Hmmm, yes, that WAS a ridiculous thing for me to say. lrh’s typesetter?

          • Captain Howdy

            LRH did have an editor.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Well they sucked!

            • Captain Howdy

              Tell him that..and he’ll rip your face off.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              John Campbell didn’t suck. Hubbard sucked. Unsucky people that get sucked in to The Hubbard Hut all come out the other end sucky. Those who can remove their head from you know where can eventually unsuck if they work at it.

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_W._Campbell

            • BuryTheNuts2

              There is a whole lot suckus going on here!!!

            • BosonStark

              Not if you saw the unedited version.

  • Sherbet

    Oooh, we’re all leery of up-voting on National Down-Vote Day. Creepy. Disqus, make it go away.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      But …WE can all downvote anon like!!!
      hmmmmm…..

      • Sherbet

        Downvoting is anonymous? Upvoting is anonymous if we’re not signed in, but that’s a pain in the neck to sign in and out.

        • FistOfXenu

          You have a pain in the neck? I bet Dianutty can explain how you got that engram. Let’s see. Your dad was maybe choking your mom to make her sign some papers and your mom was saying “Stop choking me! You’re hurting my neck! You’re hurting my neck! I don’t want to sign!”

          • BuryTheNuts2

            LRH?
            Your back!

            • FistOfXenu

              Not the real Hubbard. It looks like I’m just channelling him or something. I just came out with some pRONography a while ago. I’m in bad shape. And I can’t even follow the sign to get back to hq. If DM really thinks I’m LRH come back I might have a sudden unfortunate illness or fall off a ship or something. I guess I’ll just have to stay normal.

            • Sherbet

              Put down the Kools!

            • FistOfXenu

              Lol yes. I’d be worried if I suddenly had the urge for Kools.

          • Sherbet

            OK, your check is in the mail, FOX. (Good thing I didn’t say pain in the patoot…God knows what your explanation would have been.)

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            You are channeling The Hub a little too well, FOX. Suggest you see Dr. Bella to fix that.

      • ThetaBara

        No, we actually can’t. Only upvotes. So now Downey is gonna have to sign in!

  • Sherbet

    I thought it had gone away, but it’s still there. The upvoting ID, I mean.

    • 1subgenius

      No, just Disqus-inconsistent.

    • George Layton

      Just turn your head when you vote and you won’t see the list.

  • 0tessa

    How many engrams must Miscavige have given to his slaves by beating and threatening them? Must be countless.
    (I’m not sure my english grammar is correct here.)

    • Sherbet

      Luckily, though, what DM giveth, scientology taketh away. There’s that handy-dandy clearing treatment for ridding people of the bad stuff that happens to them. So it all works out. For a price.

  • Tony DePhillips

    Mommy…

  • George Layton

    Nitrous engram! That’s the engram that causes you to believe there are engrams?

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Isn’t that the one that makes my car so fast and furious?

      • Missionary Kid

        Only when your parents are driving.

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          You know, there’s a F & F 7 coming out next year. Maybe Tom Cruise can make a cameo appearance and save someone who’s been in a bad car wreck.

          • Observer

            It would be several steps up from shilling for Walmart.

            • Bella Legosi

              I was thinking about that yesterday and it dawned on me that maybe Tom was shilling WISE type crap for the upper management of WalMart employees. I can see WalMart employing that evil shit to further their own evil corporation! I have been waiting for someone to bring it up!

            • FistOfXenu

              Next thing you know he’s gonna be doing after shave commercials.
              “OT after shave, by RTC. It refreshes and restores your skin, and best of all it doesn’t have any evil toxic mind control smells that those Suppressive Psychiatrists and Big Pharma put in the other brands. Use OT. I do, and it makes me feel TALL”

            • Poison Ivy

              Wait, WHAT? TC and Walmart? You are joking, aren’t you?

            • Observer
            • sister wendy

              wow- now I can really not like him. I so do not support Walmart and it’s choices….

          • Missionary Kid

            I’d like to see that – with the ending that the person dies.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Did you just sum up scientology in one sentence? Sweeeet.

  • N. Graham

    Elron went to a dentist?

    • Bella Legosi

      Surpriseing huh? It was a looooooong time ago, and now we know why he never went back.

      When I hear of the tale of his tripping balls in the dentist’s office, I am reminded (for the life of me I can not remember the name of this book enough to even google it right now) me of the book written by the homeless man who was electrocuted and when he woke up from a coma, wrote this massive tome. My mom used to have it and read it half way before she put it down and walked away totally confused. I want to say Book of Comranchie, but I know it is really off!! This is going to bother me til I get a reply from you educated folk or talk to my momma!

      • coonellie

        I don’t know about the waking from the coma bit, but it sounds suspiciously like the Book of Urantia. A gigantic book of drivel supposedly written from communications with a man who was in a trance.

        • Bella Legosi

          THANK YOU! That is the one I am talking about!

  • Bella Legosi

    Could not resist it any longer!

    http://youtu.be/bOtMizMQ6oM

    • 1subgenius

      The original Roger Corman FTW.
      All remakes should be illegal.
      If it was good why bother.
      If it was bad why bother.

      • Bella Legosi

        But, this one was a musical, and I wasn’t around for the original >(

        I do feel the same. You should have seen the look on my face when I read that they were actually thinking about making a live action “Akira”

      • Captain Howdy

        Agreed.

    • MO Mom

      A great and glorious reminder of exactly why I’m phobic about dentists…

      Everything is better with Steve Martin in it.

  • LocalSP

    So ol El Rondo went on a whip-it bender and felt like shit the next day.

  • Observer

    Isn’t it about time for Downy to put in an appearance? I’ll be crushed if he/she doesn’t show up two weeks in a row. ๐Ÿ™

    • Missionary Kid

      Hopefully, he read our posts and decided to blow.
      If he didn’t, the entheta should have been pretty big for them.

  • Real Shellback

    One thing that I’ve been going through lately FORCING myself to read Mission Earth. And yes, forcing is not too strong a word. I’m having about the same reaction to Battlefield Earth, some interesting bits but as a whole the work sucks. ME just sucks write large.

    That being said, in the second book “Dark Genesis” or whatever it’s called. Hubbard has a blow by blow account of somebody withdrawing from heroin. Written to mine eyes as if he had first hand experience I don’t remember reading that Hubbard was ever on heroin or some other opiate. Reading that book makes me think he was. Hell the whole thing is like a bad LSD trip so who am I fooling?

    • Missionary Kid

      Anything to do with LRH is a bad LSD trip.

  • ze moo

    So Lrooon couldn’t handle nitrous, what would he have come up with after a good acid or mushroom trip? While I might take drug advice from a non-doctor or non-pharmacist, I would not take advice from someone who never did any research on drugs. Personal experience can be useful, but I’d rather see a web md article.

    Before google and other search engines,you had to go to a library and actually put your hands on books and other research. Learning to find relevant info was an art that was not that hard to practice. Lrooon was just to lazy to do any real research and expected the minions to just worship his every word and take it to heart.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_Kh7nLplWo

  • richelieu jr

    Nitrous Engram is a great band name….

    • Michael Leonard Tilse

      In San Francisco, at the Org, there was a group of scientologists, one blind, who had a band called “Automatic Bank” and they would play at “sunday service” sometimes. They weren’t bad, but it got to be frowned upon because the idea of automatic bank is engrams running out of control and not considered ‘theta’. So no more band at sunday service.

      • richelieu jr

        I love little anecdotes and atmosphere like that, MIchael, thanks!

  • richelieu jr

    “Rich, this is L Ron Hubbard”
    “Hello”, he lied…

  • TonyOrtega
  • Sherbet
  • ze moo

    The British newspaper the Sun apologizes to aliens for linking them to the CO$.

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4966623/Aliens-An-apology.html

  • DeElizabethan

    Thank you Vance Woodward for another fine chapter.

    I’m looking forward to some clever Anon’s to find a way for us to see the War documentary.

  • Zana

    The first thing that occurred to me about LRH and his incredible cosmic insights on Nitrous Oxide giving him the keys to the universe was that he DEFINITELY didn’t want anyone else to get the idea that they could go off and make up a lot of other shit and start their own religion. He wanted control over his minions. He didn’t want anyone thinking for themselves.

    I had nitrous oxide when I was a kid getting braces and the dentist had to pull out 4 teeth. I still remember the “vision”. It was so very ecstatic that I was sobbing with joy. My poor mother out in the waiting room panicked. She thought they were killing me. ๐Ÿ™‚ It was wonderful – me in a dentist chair sailing around planets with the angels. Lots of celestial music. (I haven’t tried it since.)

    • Sherbet

      I still have nitrous oxide occasionally if my dental work is going to be minor and I don’t want my mouth numbed and drooling for a while afterwards. I’ve never had visions, just a feeling of the room spinning, and then a sort of half-asleep/half-awake state. I can hear the dentist and am aware of everything he’s doing, plus the odd pinch of pain. The good thing about it is, when the mask comes off, real awareness comes back almost immediately. I always doubted lrh’s story about his vision (Ha! Imagine doubting lrh!), but you said you had a vision, so I guess it can happen.

      • Zana

        It was spectacular.

        • Sherbet

          So what stopped you from starting your own religion?? ๐Ÿ˜€

          • 1subgenius

            There’s no money in religion.
            If you really want to make a fortune, write pulp novels.

    • ze moo

      Nitrous oxide is like tripping on lsd for 30-60 seconds. You will get funny looks if you ask your dentist for headphones and Pink Floyds ‘Dark Side of the Moon’. I know.

      Every few months you can find a dentist who kills themselves accidentally by getting in the chair and tripping out to what ever music they like. The dentist office nitrous has oxygen mixed in, if the separate oxygen tank runs you, you will suffocate.

  • Espiando

    Oh, man, so many of you need a crash course from Anon on video matters. To wit, and in Anon’s tortured tongue: streaming is for fgts, Lern2Torrent. I’ll tell my fellow Americunts how it was on Monday night.

    • Espiando

      Okay, so this is a message to the fgt who downvoted me (unless it was another accidental downvote as Diksuq is acting up again): if you can’t stand the argot of /b/, then tell Tony not to ask for help from Anon.

      So, if you don’t want to torrent, and you can handle computer concepts a little more difficult than Facebook and YouTube, look up a program called Expat Shield (it’s freeware, and here’s a hint: try expatshield.com). It installs a proxy on your system that, when activated, gives you a UK IP address. This will allow you to access 4OD, Channel 4’s streaming service. Very soon after the show’s broadcast, you should be able to go to channel4.com and access it. It will also allow you to access the BBC iPlayer. Windows only, so iFags, you’re out of luck.

      • DeElizabethan

        Oh poop! Means that my iMac will not be able to view, bummer. And to all those helpful suggestions, don’t mean a thing to me as I’m not savy. Sure do hope someone will make available tho somehow. I’d buy him/her some flowers. Please Espiando?

  • George

    “Later on, in the 1970s, once he had a going concern with Scientology, Hubbard needed a cadre of angry rule-mongers more than free-thinking self-experimenters.” Bingo

  • Spackle Motion

    Tony, this is not meant to be offensive but I’m curious. Why do you always use the personal plural pronoun of ‘we’ whenever writing about your work at the bunker? There may be more than one of you working on all of these stories (maybe doing research in the background) that we don’t know about and I’m not asking you to reveal anything. I’m curious if there’s a reason behind it that you can tell us.

    I just thought I’d throw this out there.

    I usually read it as a stylistic choice, but sometimes it seems a bit awkward when you discuss an interview that you did by yourself. I thought that maybe you do this purposefully for reasons of Fair Game (i.e. throwing off the crazy cultists) but I’ve been wondering why you do this for awhile.

    • TonyOrtega

      It’s nothing but stylistic jackassery, I assure you.

      • aquaclara

        Hey, gotta give the Bunker cats and Ortega puppy their due.
        They would be insulted if you took all the credit….

      • Spackle Motion

        OK…thanks, Tony. I’ll take off my tinfoil now.

        I find it endearing albeit strange at times.

  • Mary_McConnell

    Re: This is Your Dianetics on Drugs: The Nitrous Engram – You two nailed it!
    Re: Monday on Channel 4: The Bunker Invades the UK – Can’t wait to see this! Thanks for letting us in on th Bunker’s involvement. Hope they included much of your efforts.

  • defrocked apostate

    Love it. Remember that violently insane Christian cunt Nancy Reagan and her Talibanic Christian Republican treasonous “Just Say No” campaign? Every time that insane Christian traitor opened her shitter and spewed that, people who used Nitrous oxide would laugh. There were in fact T-Shirts created that read, “Just say NO.” ๐Ÿ™‚

  • defrocked apostate

    “…Nitrous oxide engrams are particularly bad when they involve exodontistry; they often form the most severe late-life engram.”

    What’s amusing about this is that what Hubbard is talking about are invisible murdered space aliens when he talks about “engrams.” He’s claiming that when one uses NO, some how magically more invisible murdered space alien fragments attach themselves to humans and, of course, Scientology’s crime bosses have to be paid even more money to scrape them off.

    It’s a level of lunacy not seen since Tom Cruise.