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HOW SCIENTOLOGY COERCED A CHILD TO HAVE AN ABORTION: THE LAURA DECRESCENZO FILES

HOW SCIENTOLOGY COERCED A CHILD TO HAVE AN ABORTION: THE LAURA DECRESCENZO FILES

—————- In anticipation of her biggest day in court yet, Laura DeCrescenzo and her attorneys hit the Church of Scientology with 928 pages of new filings —————- Details from 18,000 pages of evidence show how Scientology manipulated a child to keep her working under slave-like conditions —————- A key document describing DeCrescenzo’s unwillingness to have her coerced abortion is missing from the evidence Scientology was ordered to produce By Tony Ortega Wednesday afternoon, Laura DeCrescenzo filed explosive new information in her four-year legal odyssey against the Church of Scientology, submitting 928 pages of new declarations and exhibits in anticipation of a crucial October 23 hearing in her lawsuit against the church which alleges abuse, including allegations that she was forced to have an abortion at only 17 years of age. Key to the new filings is information gleaned from thousands of pages of previously secret files that the church fought mightily to keep under wraps. But on Monday, the U.

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Jon Atack takes apart the Scientology E-meter

MathisonJon Atack is the author of A Piece of Blue Sky, one of the very best books on L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology. He has a new edition of the book for sale, and on Saturdays he’s helping us sift through the legends, myths, and contested facts about Scientology that tend to get hashed and rehashed in books, articles, and especially on the Internet.

Jon, you continue to take a hard look at Scientology’s most basic concepts and practices. We’re really excited that you turned your attention this week to that most familiar of Scientology accessories, the E-meter! Tell us about it.

JON: The first Electropsychometer used in Dianetics was developed by Volney Mathison. It is a device based on a Wheatstone bridge, an electrical circuit which measures resistance, in this case through sensors held in the hands, so it measures the conductivity of skin — also known as galvanic skin response. More accurately, it measures changes in the sweat glands, by passing a small electric current through the body. Such meters were not new — Hubbard’s claim to have made the only valid discoveries in the field of the mind and spirit in 50,000 years are not borne out by the development of the e-meter, which actually had nothing to do with him, and had been enthusiastically supported by Jung and others many years before.

The original meters — the Mathison meters — were plugged into the mains, and had to be earthed to a radiator, so that they didn’t electrocute the “preclear” Experiences with this meter may have encouraged Hubbard to develop his electrical hypotheses of the thetan, expounded in Scientology 8-80 and forgotten soon after (as were so many of his “breakthroughs”).

In the 1970s, Saint Hill’s two E-meter repair men were disappointed at the poor quality of the Mark V e-meter. Because they repaired them, they knew that the cheapest components were used, including germanium transistors, which had long been considered obsolete elsewhere. They set themselves a simple task: what would happen if, instead of the cheapest components, they used the best?

One night, they left their new meter alongside a standard Mark V, with the same input to both meters, and a pen read out to show how they reacted. When they returned from their pleasant evening at the pub, they were surprised to find that the Mark V had registered twice as many reads as their new high-spec machine. They forewent further boozing, and watched closely during the next test, which confirmed, beyond a shadow of doubt, that half of the reads on the Mark V were self-generated.

Their plans for a superior E-meter were shelved when the Mark VI was announced. To their surprise, the Mark VI was actually little more than a Mark V in a soap box (which someone must have thought was futuristic). At around this time, Texas Instruments quoted $38 per meter to build the Mark VI, which were already retailing for over $500. They soon passed $3,000.

The high-spec meter was eventually released to the Independents in about 1984. It was called the Ability Meter and just the jewel on which the needle pivoted cost more than the whole component cost for a Mark VI. This was the Rolls Royce of E-meters.

Along the way, however, the cheap meters used in the cult had begun to cause problems, precisely because they generated their own reads. Someone at last discovered this (having ignored reports from our two repair men, for years), and the problem was isolated. The potentiometer — pretty much a volume control, like a dimmer switch for a light (which is the “tone arm” on the meter) was shedding carbon dust into the works, because of its primitive construction. These motes of carbon were causing reads. Worst of all, they were causing “rock slams.”

In the early seventies, there was a project to discipline anyone who had shown a rock slam during auditing. The “List One rock slam” project sent a majority of the Sea Org onto the Rehabilitation Project Force. I often saw E-meters rock slamming without the “cans” being plugged in, so it was no news to me that these were false reads. The suffering caused to Sea Org members, because of this elementary mistake, is awful to contemplate.

And, how about the accuracy of the meter in detecting “hidden areas of emotional charge?” Well, there is a peculiar statement by Ronald Hubbard that must be taken into account, and here it is: speaking of Committees of Evidence, Hubbard said: “The E-Meter is not to be used to procure evidence as it does not register lies on criminal types and, however vital and reliable as an auditing aid, is not always valid in detecting crime or acts [sic]. It can react on the flustered innocent and fail to react on the cold-blooded guilty.” In other words, if you don’t agree with the use of the E-meter, it doesn’t work. The reference, should you choose to check it, is a policy letter of 7 September 1963, elegantly styled “Important, Scientology Five, Justice, Committees of Evidence, Scientology Jurisprudence, Administration of.”

In his excellent book, Blown for Good, Marc Headley explains that the Mark VIII E-meter cost $40 per machine to build. A recent price list shows it at $6,000. And you have to buy two. Think on.

 
——————–

The Video Vault: The Life Continuum!

Our source has come through with another “quote video” this week. We ask you this week to ponder the deepnesses of The Life Continuum…

 

 
Once again, we asked Marc Headley about this week’s video…

Lots of Int Base employees were used on this one, and at least one from LA as well. We start off with Mike Gilchrist (again) playing the part of the funeral-goer along with Paula Moniz. Natalie Fisher is the older woman. She was one of the few elderly employees still left at the base before they were mostly mass offloaded to Florida. If there was one thing that angered Dave Miscavige more than anything it was old people “dropping their bodies” while he was around. If they even looked like they could be going anytime soon, you could bet they’d be loaded onto a bus to some far-flung Sea Org base where they could be put in a home right before they drop. Also, when people go dying on you, the local LEOs tend to give into all the “labor camp” rumors and stories and ask pesky questions, which is always a pain. If you are into exercises in futility, go ahead and try to look up “compassion” in a Scientology dictionary.

Back to the video 00 we now see Al Baker (who has since left the Sea Org after 20 plus years and now sells automotive fuel treatments in Detroit) who plays the older gentleman looking through the rainy window. The shots with Al were done with a kid and if you look really close you can see that these were shot at the Celebrity Centre in Los Angeles. This was most likely done there as they needed a black guy and as there were only two at the Int Base they cant be in every single video that gets shot. To wrap this one up we have Chris Olander & Leah O’Hare getting happily audited so they don’t end up like Granny Natalie.

As a side note, someone asked me how much these videos and events cost to produce. These quote videos usually came in under $10,000. The biggest single cost usually was talent, and if we could get away with using all Int Base actors and locations we could shoot for the cost of tape alone which was peanuts. Most of the time we would just recycle already built sets and props so we could keep costs way down for these.

Event videos would usually come in around $15,000 to $30,000.

An IAS winner video could costs as much as $25,000 to $50,000.

Events are where the big money would get spent!

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on February 1, 2014 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS (We read Scientology’s founding text) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25

UP THE BRIDGE (Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 39

GETTING OUR ETHICS IN (Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14

SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING (Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39

 

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  • http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/muslinger/ Jens TINGLEFF

    The meter generating random results is more of a feature than a bug : it allows the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology to charge even more money for “repair” auditing. As for e-meters not be allowed to collect evidence, well – of course! The field of ex-victims abounds with stories of the ability to get a “floating needle” whenever the victim felt like it.

    • Eivol Ekdal

      One of the new meter accessories is a ‘reads-recorder’ attachment only available for use in the Orgs(i.e. probably during Sec Checks).

  • Michael Leonard Tilse

    LFBD dial wide floating TA F/N VVVGIs FTW! Thank you Jon.

    Though, my friend Dan Carlson worked on the Mark VI project and they were using “taut band” meter mechanisms with the dampers removed so the needle would swing freely. He also told me that an optical encoder type of TA dial was considered but rejected by the higher ups. Of course now the “new” Mark VIII has an optical encoder TA dial.

  • EnthralledObserver

    There was something about LRonny ‘Rock-slamming’ when being audited.
    Xenu… I don’t even know what that is…

    • Observer

      I believe it was that David Mayo or Otto Roos discovered Ron had many times more rock slams than any one else.

      • MaxSpaceman

        ‘Twas Otto.

      • Michael Leonard Tilse

        It was in the “The Otto Roos Story”, and the term used was “discreditable reads” IIRC.

        Some background:

        A “read” on the e-meter is some needle reaction that occurs in response to the question being asked of the PC by the auditor.

        An example would be: The auditor asks “In scientology, have you gone past a misunderstood word?”, and at the precise end of the sentence the meter gives one of the many needle reactions. That reaction is a “read.” If the read was the needle going into the pattern known as a “floating needle” then the answer would be considered a “No.” If the pattern was a sudden swing to the right of the dial, that would be a “fall.” (Because you would have to turn the “tone arm” control downward to bring the needle back to the center of the dial.)

        A “fall” would indicate some emotional energy was connected to the question, either “yes I have gone past a misunderstood word in scientology” or some upset or thought about it. That is considered a “read” meaning there is something behind that e-meter reaction that needs to be addressed.

        So in general terms, a “read” means something related to the question needs to be cleared up or exposed or run down to it’s source. A floating needle in most cases is not considered a “read” that needs to be taken up.

        A “discreditable read” would be a read on some question that showed the person had done things that were bad or criminal or against scientology or revealed a hidden history that put them in a bad light.

        An example of a “discreditable read” for a scientologist would be a “fall” on the question “Are you an FBI agent?”

        So part of what hubbard and mary sue hubbard were on about during the Otto Roos story was that Otto while reviewing hubbard’s auditing folders had noted many “discreditable reads” that had never been taken up and had written a program of auditing actions to address those in hubbard’s case.

        For hubbard, a discreditable read would be a read on questions like:

        “Have you ever fucked a mexican goat in time of war?”

        “Have you lied about destroying japanese submarines?”

        “Were you never disabled?”

        “Are you homosexual?”

        “Have you ever enslaved a population?”

        “Have you destroyed people because they found out about you?”

        “Did you do actual research in creating scientology?”

        So, any reads on these questions would tend to discredit hubbard’s story and image. Thus they are “discreditable reads.” Hubbard could not allow the highly trained scientology auditor an case supervisor Otto Roos to even suggest that there might be things that came up in ron’s auditing that might discredit or stain his carefully crafted image as “mankind’s greatest friend.”

        • WildaBeast

          Thank you for a great post…and oh Lord, I’m going to remember the question “Have you ever fucked a Mexican goat in time of war?” forever. I’ll use it, too, just to see the look on people’s faces.

    • Robert Eckert

      A rock-slam is when the needle abruptly swings all the way to the end of the scale. The e-meter is not all that effective as a lie detector, but the extreme nervousness of bad liars does manifest.

      • EnthralledObserver

        So what does it mean when the e-meter does that? And what is the meter picking up?

        • Espiando

          It’s picking up the fact that your nervousness about something you’re being asked is causing your palms to sweat (a normal human reaction to that kind of stress), which increases conductance and drops resistance, and the meter proceeds to overload.

          In other words, it detects whether the sweat glands in your palms are properly connected to your endocrine system.

          • EnthralledObserver

            Thank you!

            • Espiando

              No problem. This is one of the reasons why Scientology would be hell for me. My palms are, for lack of a better term, weird. If my palms are sweating and I try to read a newspaper, the paper soaks up and I have ink all over my hands for the rest of the day. Imagine what I’d do to one of the Mark VIII Easy-Bakes.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Your cupcakes wouldn’t stick…?

            • joan nieman

              Espiando. you would be sent to RPF right away!

            • WildaBeast

              I have a great assignment for him – he can come clean my apartment! Though that might be more of an RPF’s RPF-level punishment…

            • joan nieman

              That’s a good idea!

            • Anonymouse

              I will have the same problem, also, my hands produce tons of acidity, often damage the steering wheel on cars due to the acidity in my sweat eating away the rubber.

          • stanrogers

            You’re also likely to tense up or flinch unconsciously, which will improve contact dramatically when you’re holding the cans. As much as moisture matters, grip probably matters more if your hands aren’t bone-dry.

        • Observer

          Rock Slam

          The following is the only valid definition of an R/S: the crazy, irregular left-right slashing motion of the needle on the E-Meter dial. R/Ses repeat left and right slashes unevenly and savagely, faster than the eye easily follows. The needle is frantic…A rock slam (R/S) means a hidden evil intention on the subject or question under auditing or discussion. (Tech Dict. p. 356)

          • EnthralledObserver

            So $cientology’s ONLY explanation for a ‘rock slam’ is that the person is lying? Hence the punishment.
            LRonny himself got away with many then… unless there are exceptions. (which there obviously are given how unreliable the device is and what other factors can sweat up your palms – per Espi’s explanation below – thank you)

            • Observer

              Worse than lying–Ron said it means evil intention. The fact that he registered so many more rock slams than anyone else almost makes me want to give the e-meter some credence. Hubbard’s life was a long string of hidden evil intention.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Meh… as much as I want to point to the e-meter as evidence showing how evil the git was, I am of the opinion that he’s an greasy bastard… yech!

            • Observer

              I just think it’s hilarious that his bogus device actually pegged him correctly!

            • RMycroft

              I think even a Magic 8-Ball would have called him a lying fraud.

            • Kristi Evans

              ^POTD… lol

            • WildaBeast

              Greasy sweat would probably conduct really well, too…yech, indeed.

            • Victoria Pandora

              the pac base needed to be rennovated at the same time all the sea org members started rock slamming. purely a coincidence, i am sure.

          • hansje brinker

            Once an auditor told me that a Rock Slam also means a basic purpose in life ( without any evil intention). It is something what somebody really wants to do in life.

            • Cat Daddy

              Normal people call that a passion

        • grundoon

          The meter likely is picking up the transmissions from the taxicab company or amateur radio operator down the street. Whenever he keys his mic, all the meters in the area rock slam.

      • Shirley Eugeste

        The poor sap being audited doesn’t see the needle. tight? But they would see the auditor taking notes, making frowny faces, I don’t know… maybe repeating certain questions, sounding skeptical? My understanding (based on TV) of actual polygraph examiners is that they make kind of a big thing out of not “muddying the waters” with their own thoughts/reactions during the test. Scientology auditors, on the other hand, seem to have a lot of power.

      • califa007

        If it falls to just one side, it’s a Long Fall Blow Down (LFBD). A Rock Slam is an erratic motion back and forth from one side to the other, very jerky. The needle slams against the pins on either end. Of course, you can produce that action just by squirming in your chair, but the auditor is supposed to notice that and discredit the read. If you think you may have just Rock Slammed, start squirming!

        • Robert Eckert

          Thanks for the clarification.

    • Cat Daddy

      http://tonyortega.org/2013/04/13/the-saga-of-david-mayo-scientologys-banished-tech-wizard/

      JON: Yes, precisely so.

      Mayo had succeeded to the fatal position of Hubbard’s auditor — all
      before him had failed and been cast into the outer darkness, including
      the first Class XII and supposed OT VIII, Otto Roos. As Hubbard’s
      auditor, Mayo had access to the great mass of auditing records of the
      Great OT. Like Roos, he found a great deal of discreditable material
      therein, including Hubbard’s astonishing multiple drug abuse. Hubbard
      said that people who “rock-slammed” on the e-meter had evil intentions,
      and, as Roos found earlier, Hubbard’s folders were littered with “rock
      slams.”

  • Observer

    Life continuum, huh? I guess this explains why grief is so low on the tone scale. Ron didn’t want anyone living any life but his.

    That poor kid singing about his e-meter a few weeks ago would be much better off with an actual Easy Bake oven. Then he would at least have delicious cupcakes instead of a corroded, outdated, 10-year-old device that could be built by a bright middle-schooler.

    • Andrew Robertson

      A Church of Scientology spokesman, Ms Karin Poo hit back angrily at claims circulating the Internet that the new New Mark VIII Ultra E-Meter was unable to cook cupcakes.

      “This is just religious and culinary bigotry.” said Ms Poo. “The Mark VIII is a multipurpose device designed not only for cooking delicious cupcakes but also for removing the souls of murdered space aliens. If used 100% standardly and following the precise instructions of L Ron Hubbard, who invented cooking, no problems will be encountered nor will there be any contamination of aliens body parts in the baking mix.”

      Andrew

      • Party Hull!

        Ha. That’s wonderfully childish.

        Karin Poo.

      • Victoria Pandora

        which brings us full circle back to one of our favourite old bunker sayings. scientology; it’s a floor wax AND a dessert topping.

        • Sejanus

          It’s a dessert topping you cow! lol

          Gosh I miss old SNL

          More amusing than SCN with way fewer tragic deaths.

    • RMycroft
      • Molar Mountre

        The e-meter needs to make a ‘ding’ noise when there’s stuff.

        • RMycroft

          How can Scientology be scientific when they don’t have a machine that goes ping!?

          • WildaBeast

            The public don’t need bells and whistles…all of those go straight to the Demented Midget.

          • Robert Eckert

            “Bing”, actually, is the most scientificky noise.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wshyX6Hw52I

        • grundoon

          You’re all wrong. Everybody knows that scientific progress goes boink.

  • bigby

    “Somebody fails, departs or dies and the individual takes on the burdens of this person’s habits, goals, fears and idiosyncrasies… This person, no matter how TINY an individual, is the defender for the person who eventually dies.”

    Has LRH just explained the life-force of David Miscavage?

    • Kristi Evans

      Hahaha!

  • Truthiwant

    Maybe the e-meter works better on 10 zillion year old lawless episodes of people blowing up space ships or destroying entire planets rather than seeing if some guy lied about robbing the bank last week. If that’s really the case and the meter doesn’t register lies, then I guess all those OT space yarns must be true!

  • Party Hull!

    “In his excellent book, Blown for Good, Marc Headley explains that the Mark VIII E-meter cost $40 per machine to build. A recent price list shows it at $6,000. And you have to buy two. Think on.”

    Scientology in a nutshell.

    • EnthralledObserver

      Is there some kind of law that can deal with this sort of blatant extortion?

      • Espiando

        Not in this country. Remember when the iPhone first came out, there was this app that sold for a ridiculous amount of money (I want to say US$1000, but it may have been $10000), and all it did was display a shining gem on the screen. It was the ultimate statement of someone showing off their bank balance. Apple eventually took it out of the App Store, but they, or the customers, couldn’t do anything about it legally.

        Essentially, if they sell it for $5400 or $6000 and someone buys it, that’s an issue between the buyer and seller. The coercion factor of having to buy one comes into play, but Jeff just took us through the whole Scientology Ethics bullshit, and we now have a basis on why such a suit won’t come about.

        • EnthralledObserver

          What a shame…

        • Observer

          The difference is that Apple didn’t try to convince people that their eternity hinged on the purchase of that app.

          • Robert Eckert

            Just their coolness.

            • Observer

              I am immune to that marketing angle. I embraced my uncoolness long ago.

            • Robert Eckert

              Yes, well, I’m immune to the “eternity” angle. I embraced that I am a finite being a long time ago.

            • Anonymous

              You said it! That IS the pitch.

        • Gerard Plourde

          There might be a case to be made claiming undue influence (a form of coercion often connected with the making of wills). The idea is that the perpetrator insinuates him or herself into a position of trust that allows him or her to overcome the free decision-making ability of the person making the will.

          • Kristi Evans

            Now *that’s* an interesting question… I wonder what a lawyer would think about that angle. Seems analogous to what is happening in Scn.

        • Zaphod Beeblebrox

          I Am Rich – US$1000

          en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_Rich

  • Espiando

    This is the one subject where Antis are guaranteed to get into fights with Indies. Just try to explain to them that this is a piece of 19th Century electronics tarted up a bit, and that all it measures is skin galvanism, and they go on the warpath.

    It’s understandable why they do. In order for Dianetics to be right, there have to be engrams, and engrams have to have “mass”, and the e-meter has to be able to pick up that mass (let’s ignore the existence of Book One co-auditing, which doesn’t use a meter; heaven knows that they do, until they realize it’s the perfect gateway drug to their philosophy). I don’t think we need to talk about the e-meter’s role in communicating with thetans on the OT levels; Chuck Beatty should be by in a little while to discuss that.

    Then there’s the e-meter’s special status in Scientology lore. The FDA shut down Scientology in the early 60s due to a case of rAIDS, and it was focused on the e-meter as an instrument of unlicensed medical practice. That’s when the term “religious artifact” came about, and every Scilon since, RCS, Indie, FZ, whatever, has kept that mentality.

    Too bad the FDA were like the three Italian goofs who stole the reliquary of the soon-to-be Saint John Paul II’s bloodstained cloth. They took the reliquary and threw away the cloth, just like the FDA took the e-meters but didn’t stop the philosophy. The really valuable stuff, and the really powerful stuff, was the material they thought was insignificant. To think that the FDA came thisclose to destroying this abomination fifty years ago…they didn’t, and now they want to make my life hell with HARPC. Fuck ‘em.

    • RMycroft

      {E-meters work, but only if you keep them in your Orgone Accumulator when not in use.}

      • MaxSpaceman

        That sh1t is amazing! What a terrific theory to discover even if research into it ceased with the demise of that institute. Thanks rMy.

      • media_lush

        aaaaah, so that explains that freaky Kate Bush video with Donald Sutherland

      • grundoon

        You should sit inside a grounded Orgone Accumulator while using your e-meter. It will screen out the electromagnetic influence of the local taxi company or CB radio hobbyist.

        On review of hundreds of cases, it is found that the e-meter should be kept in a pyramid when not in use.

        • Robert Eckert

          Preferably a pyramid made of tinfoil

    • Couch_Incident

      The FDA at the time of the seizure had the right idea. I’ve posted this before and it’s lengthy, but it gives important historical context to the FDA’s intervention. This is a speech by the Deputy FDA Director for Enforcement in late 1963 after the e-meter seizures, but before any court rulings (http://www.devicewatch.org/reg/milstead.shtml ). This was at the 2nd National Congress on Quackery co-sponsored by the FDA & the AMA. For context, this was a year after President Kennedy awarded FDA’s Frances Oldham Kelsey a medal for blocking the sale of thalidomide in the US, thus preventing widespread birth defects in the US. They seem to have been bolder at the time…:

      The Hubbard E-Meter, which is another skin galvanometer-type device similar in principle to the Micro-Dynameter, is now under seizure here in the District of Columbia. In January of this year the United States marshal seized in possession of the Academy of Scientology and related organizations 117 devices referred to as the Hubbard E-Meter. Scientology is an organization founded a number of years ago by a science writer, L. Ron Hubbard. Branches are found throughout the United States.
      Also seized were about three tons of labeling containing therapeutic claims. The government charged that the labeling falsely represented that the devices are effective for the diagnosis, prevention, treatment, detection and elimination of the causes of all mental and nervous disorders such as neuroses, psychoses, schizophrenia, and all psychosomatic ailments. Psychosomatic ailments were represented to include most of the physical ailments of man such as arthritis, cancer, stomach ulcers, radiation burns from atomic bombs, polio, etc., etc. It was further claimed that the device is effective in improving the intelligence quotient, to measure the basal metabolism, and “change of state of man.” The seizure action is awaiting adjudication in the Federal District Court….
      In this scientific age it is possible to determine whether a drug or a machine or a method will do what it is supposed to do. The time is past when the promoter and user of a worthless device can hide behind a cloak of secrecy and mystery, for secrecy and mystery are incompatible with science…. Science has stripped away the mystery of quack devices and left bare the truth, which is that there are no secret cure-all machines that are capable of diagnosing or treating different kinds of disease simply by turning dials, and applying electrical contacts to the body. Such devices are fakes! Their promoters are eccentric individuals and pitchmen who would turn medical science into a side-show…. Device quackery has no legitimate claim to immunity. It is the most despicable of all quackery, for it uses science to advance its cause. It takes advantage of the people’s confidence in the great discoveries in science and their belief in the incredible….
      The progress of science is irreversible. We have made clear our determination to deal with device quackery. We invite all of you to join with us in a relentless battle of science and law against superstition and fraud.

      • Observer

        Ron hadn’t yet fraudulently positioned Scientology as a religion, so the FDA didn’t have that hanging over them then.

      • Anonymous

        Thanks for posting this….had not seen it before.

  • Eivol Ekdal

    When someone is ‘on the cans’ they are a variable resistor in the middle of a big loop antenna. If you read the patents they include a description of the unique features of the meter and how Hubbard wanted a meter that was super fast and reactive to the slightest changes. This feature is impossible to achieve without making it sensitive to external sources of noise as well. The new e-meter uses the fastest parts yet but also includes digital signal processing (MATH) to smooth out the over reactive needle.

    Here’s another thought, the Tone Arm that is used to center the needle in the set area can also be used to give false reads. The Auditor can get the needle to jump any time he wants by manipulating the Tone Arm. In the normal Auditing setup, the PC does not see the needle so they have to trust the Auditor. I can see this ability to manipulate the needle handy when they are doing street demos to the public. So I bet a skilled Auditor can get the needle to do anything they want during a demo to convince people of the efficacy of this fundamentally flawed device. I have watched this video over and over and I would be more convinced of Marty’s demo if his thumb was not on the Tone Arm during the very moment of pinch and pinch recall.
    What do you think?…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NykEiJMP-Jo

    • EnthralledObserver

      I wondered at those knobs… I too thought it fishy that an Auditor could manipulate them during the process and suspected that it was possible and probable some used it to get a reading they wanted.
      Why do they not let the PC see the needle? I know I’d be wanting to see it… and I suspect there is some bullshit reason why they keep it shielded.

      • grundoon

        They don’t let the PC see the needle because the e-meter is only a prop – its main purpose is to elevate the auditor to a position of authority, create a need for the auditor, and train the PC to look to the auditor for emotional cues and rewards.

    • MaxSpaceman

      o/t of the e-meter:
      Not many people know that $cientology Inc. is getting over on the British system of govt. also.

      In Great Britain, the chirch is not recognized as a religion. But – John Sweeney: “It’s won concessions as a not-for-profit educational organization, including tax relief and rates rebates worth millions.”

    • Eclipse-girl

      I never noticed what you did EE.
      TY for pointing that out.
      I wonder what John Sweeney would think if this were pointed out to him.

      Why do the auditors have to keep fiddling with the knobs?

    • Moonshot

      During my time in the cult, i used the meter rather a lot, and conducted many pinch demos. Whenever i demo’d the device, my thumb was never on the Tone Arm. Its not necessary. When you pinch somebody or ask them to remember a time as a child they experienced a burn, the meter reacts every time. I do not claim this as validity of Scietology or their claims, just my experience with the device.

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        I don’t know what to make of it. I have listened to former auditors say that the auditor is interpreting facial expressions while the e-meter goes about a random pattern. I have heard the same people say that the e-meter actually does measure some kind of emotional activity. Ultimately, it is still a ridiculously overpriced distraction for auditing, which has very little science in it anyway.

        • Moonshot

          Well, there is not science in terms of peer reviewed examination of the activity, but their is a well developed methodology and technique that is well codified and specific. Whowever told you about the facial thing and radom meter reads is feeding you a line of bull.
          I am not saying that Scientology works beyond giving a person a sense of “feeling good” at a given moment, however, i have trained on the meter and there is nothing random about it. When asked questions the meter does react as the person holds the cans and their are specific types of reads.
          In a general way, the auditor does look at facial expressions. Is the pc smiling or crying? etc. But in metered auditing, the meter is the main tool.
          Largely, i think the meter subject is a meaningly distraction. Yes, the thing does work as far as it goes. Yes, the thing is vastly overpriced. But the main point is the Cof$ organization is a vicious money grubbing cult. In the larger scheme of Scientology bashing, the meter is neither here nor there. It is the churches policy directives that are so damn evil and destructive.
          Personally, completely separate from Scientology, i think the meter is a pretty cool item having played around with in quite a bit, but ultimately is the thing greatly useful to mankind? i have no idea.

          • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

            Thanks for the long and thoughtful comment, Moonshot. The person who told me about the randomness was a former auditor, though I don’t remember what class.

            The science in auditing continues to remain very suspect to me. Perhaps, as you say, the science is limited to helping a person feel good, and at times help him with some problems, much like the psychotherapy of the mid-century when it Dianetics was developed.

      • Once_Born

        I give blood. Before you do this, the staff measure your blood pressure.

        Whenever the nurse puts the sphygmomanometer cuff on me, my heart rate increases. Some primitive part of me knows that this is a prelude to getting stuck with a needle, and is preparing for ‘fight or flight’.

        Getting pinched, or remembering pain, can bring about similar, minor, physiological reactions – including a sudden change in skin conductivity which could register on the meter.

        I don’t know what pinching someone is supposed to demonstrate, but suspect that this is a simpler and better explanation for what happens to the meter when you do it that whatever is offered by Scientology.

      • Eivol Ekdal

        Thanks for the info. Can you answer a simple question…If someone holding the cans has a steady reading (needle in the set area) which way would the needle move in reference to the tone arm? If the tone arm is turned clockwise which way does the needle move…left or right?

        • Moonshot

          The needle will move in the same direction the operator moves the Tone Arm.
          Once the sensitivity setting is set at the beginning of the session so that the needle stays in the set area, the operator will not have to touch or move the Tone Arm again until there is a major read. Primarliy this major read would be whats called a “Long Fall Blow Down.” A Fall read is a move of the needle to the right. Hubbard felt this LFBD was associated with major “charge” blowing off the preclear.
          It is important for the operator to keep the needle in the set area during the LFBD cuz generally once this read plays out the needle will go into the “Floating Needle” read. The floating needle almost always will result in the end of the session, so if the operator misses this read, they run the risk of “over running” the preclear which will can cause them to feel bad after the session. Therefore, during the LFBD the operator will be moving the Tone Arm counter-clockwise (leftward from a static position) as much as needed to keep the needle in view (not pegged).
          Again, not saying Scn is valid, just describing the doctrine and technique.

  • Ten Aug

    As ever thank you Mr. Atack… Another very eloquent deconstruction.

    And props for the index’ing at the bottom, I think this will become immensely valuable in the months and years to come if you can keep it there. In fact, would it be worth making available a series of booklets/PDFs of each completed series? I’d throw some money into a gofundme account for that. Easier to send a fence sitting clam an email with the booklet than a link to an SP’s site… Well it’s a thought anyway.

    Think on.

    (Sorry Jon… Love that sign off… Hope you don’t mind)

  • MaxSpaceman

    >>>”the cheap meters used in the cult had begun to cause problems, precisely
    because they generated their own reads. Someone at last discovered this
    (having ignored reports from our two repair men, for years)”

    And $cilon member’s entire construction of their ‘whole track’ (past lives going back trillions of years, including other locations like some of the 76 planets in the Marcabian Confederation) depends on the ‘reads’ of the cheap e-meter. In auditing “date/locate” is a major part of whole track discovery. Using the meter, the auditor runs “date” on the member, and ‘finds’ the correct date; the auditor runs “locate” on the member and ‘finds’ the locatioin; then the member can be certain in the session that “what’s that?” – the auditor seeing a ‘read’ on the meter – that, for example, they *were* racing cars on planet Zlob, there was a terrible accident, and they saw their best friend spin-out, crash and die, that being in 9 billion-873 million-545 thousand-623 years ago. And each member builds their belief in their past lives based on reads from cheap, faulty e-meters.

    • http://www.4chan.org/ Vistaril

      You know, I reckon that “date and locate” auditing must have been some sort of signal to auditors that the tech was crap. Of course, with the mental concepts of “doubt” redefined as “treason” and “certainty” redefined as “truth” one will, I suppose, believe anything.

  • baddog5623

    I read the orginal patent and was amazed that the orginal e-meter had nothing to do with people but movie projectors. It is like Hubbard picked up some object and said, I wonder if I can trick the fools in to thinking this thing can give them freedom. He might as well used an easybake after all. At least them name would have been more accurate.

    • Techie

      You are probably looking at the patent for the “Azimuth Alignment” meter, a ploy to be able to make emeters that were not called that by name. The early tube version patent is the first one.

  • http://www.4chan.org/ Vistaril

    The history of Scientology and the emeter is a whole rabbit warren of its own. From a marketing perspective, the introduction of “technology” into the realm of spiritual investigation was a masterstroke of its time. Wider US society in the 1950s was fresh off the technological “big boom” following the end of World War II and which flooded the poplace with both great hope and a fearful dread. In the ten years – or so – after the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were melted, technology had brought the wonders of science right into the workplace and the homes of a burgeoning middle class. Electric typewriters and “fax” machines in the office, automatic dishwashers and colour television at home. Both Texas Instruments and the Fairchild Semiconductor were poised to deliver the boom which sent Neil Armstrong to the Moon and you to The Bunker. L Ron Hubbard sensed that public mood of excitement, it was almost an awe struck sense of reverence in many quarters, and so positioned his scam alongside this realm of growing public consciousness.

    The idea that “thought could be measured” was, by no means, a remarkable claim to make at that time. All sorts of dreams and possibilities were manufactured by all manner of business outlets, and many of those dreams have come true. The pocket-sized cellphone-camera-computer-radio-television-GPSmaps-voicerecorder-calculator-unit is a stark example. But the dreams which did come true were premised on demonstrable fact and not bullshit.

    L Ron Hubbard’s cosying-up to technological was also driven by the fact that two scientific experiments had debunked the major claims made by Dianetics including the basis for Engrams as defined by his, soon to be, {scripture}. That was the last time any aspect of any scientific claim made by L Ron Hubbard was researched with the cooperation of Scientology. It was also about the time L Ron Hubbard started railing against academia generally and public education specifically. By 1964, L Ron Hubbard was describing college education as the systematic hypnotising of America. But, I digress . . .

    The emeter, as I understand the situation, was introduced largely to provide some sort of technological flavour to the long-con. A simple “pinch test” could “prove” emeters measure thought, which, in turn, could be painted so as to show how “wrong” the previous experiments were and “what would those types know, anyway”. L Ron Hubbard would also have seen the value of the emeter as a stage-prop for the hypno-auditing as well as the vast profit to be made from retailing them to the punters. Hell, make them buy two! Another feature of the emerter L Ron Hubbard would have instantly recognised is its power as a tool for control. Scientology scirpture defines: “control=income”, after all. And what better way to exert control than to subject your “customers” to regular sessions on a lie-detector. Although, L Ron Hubbard never actually called the emeter a lie detector, he said it was a “truth detector”.

    Of course, history is never complete without the insights brought to the table by those who were there. There must be thousands of stories about the emeter and Jon Atacks is, IMHO, one of the best. And also dreadful. The “spiritual enlightenment” processing people were put through as a result of the “Rock Slam” is another chapter in the yet-to-be-written series on Scientology criminality. Now we find out that the abuse as directed by L Ron Hubbard was inflicted entirely because the “technology” was rubbish.

    Just as big a lie as the emeter is that video portraying “L Ron Hubbard on Life Continuum”. What touched me about the video is the fact that – the chances are – most involved in its production were themselves experiencing the emotional toll of the PTS/SP Doctrine and disconnection. In what sort of culture would the inhabitants be forced to be uptone about making a video to position L Ron Hubbard with family and love when they themselves were not allowed to such basic human experiences. I guess some of them probably comforted the dissonance with notions that they were above such “banky” HE&R. As Marc Headley says

    ” . . . If you are into exercises in futility, go ahead and try to look up “compassion” in a Scientology dictionary . . .”

    Heh! That would be like looking up where “LOVE” is on the Tone Scale.

    Also, thanks to TonyO for that Index of articles. A nice professional touch, and a valuable resource for DOX hunters and collectors.

    • Robert Eckert

      You have your history of technology jumbled: the 1950’s did not know of any color televisions or fax machines, and Texas Instruments and Fairchild Semiconductors did not do their thing until after Neil Armstrong had been to the Moon. The 1950’s were a time when computers occupied whole specially air-conditioned rooms and cost a million dollars or so, while an operator in the next room monitored a big console of flashing lights. Television could only show you news from overseas (in black and white of course) if film reels were flown across the ocean; communication between businesses was by Telex, and copying in the office was by carbon paper or by use of the mimeograph machine with its intoxicating fluid.

      • Gerard Plourde

        Just one correction – the first broadcasts of color programming did occur in the 1950’s, but ownership of color televisions did not really become common until the 1960’s. (It was still a big deal to get one in 1965. I know of people who, on getting one, would invite their friends over for an evening to share the experience.)

        • Observer

          On July 20, 1969 my uncle had a big family pool party, during which we were to watch the moon landing on his color TV. Of course, it was broadcast in black and white …

          • http://www.4chan.org/ Vistaril

            Heh! Classic. I was at an event celebrating the life of Neil Armstrong and got speaking to a Russian chap. He told me a funny tale. Apparently, the US spent a squigzillionteenoogle dollars developing a pen which could be safely taken to space and which would work, 100% guaranteed. The specifications set by NASA was that the pen had to be capable of writing upside down, underwater, and onto the face of a crystal.

            The Russians used a pencil.

            : )

            • Robert Eckert

              That story is apocryphal, but it is true that the US spent enormous sums on coffee pots for fighter jets (when the air pressure can change suddenly, a coffee pot may act as a bomb) while the Russians just gave their pilots highly caffeinated cold drinks (the equivalent of Jolt Cola).

            • Gerard Plourde

              I do remember the Fisher Space Pen (I actually had one. I got it a part of a promotion from Tang, the fake orange breakfast drink supposedly developed for the space program by General Foods.) It had a pressurized cartridge that forced ink to the ball point to permit writing with the point up (or in an anti-gravity environment.

            • Observer

              I remember seeing those commercials! My mom never bought Tang so, alas, I was denied the Space Pen experience.

            • Gerard Plourde

              I drank lots of Tang and have the fillings in my molars to prove it.

            • georget1952

              Tang is coming out with a new flavor, Orange-Pineapple. I loved Tang as a kid and my little sister used to eat it by the spoonful. I tried to do that once, and it did not go well for me. I never had Tang again after that.

            • Gerard Plourde

              I was surprised to discover that it was still being marketed in this age of natural and organic food. After all, it’s almost the quintessential manufactured food product. Even Velveeta has more natural ingredients.

            • Cat Daddy

              I’s insidious, It mad it’s way to my country buy ended up in the food banks, nobody wanted it. And it left you more thirsty

              http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d1/Tang_Drink_Packets.jpg

            • Gerard Plourde

              You’re right. It’s truly awful (and in a way that kids love, like a gateway junk food).

            • Eclipse-girl

              (Psst : sugar in the liquids you are drinking makes your very thirsty)

            • MaxSpaceman

              o/t space pens.
              http://scientologybollocks.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/scientology-rape-of-mind-disconnection.html
              I don’t know if you saw Lush’s Website: he gave your work a big shout-out with 8 covers of your Ron series and a link to your Flickr page. (Just wanted you to know if you dint.)

            • WildaBeast

              Yeah but you got to skip drinking Tang. God that crap is awful. Puts holes in your teeth, and probably holes in your gut. Certainly if you already have holes in your gut, Tang finds them all and plays in them – and it’s acidic as all get-out. Fuck Tang.

            • Robert Eckert

              The space pen was real? Wow, I thought that was just a story. You and Vistaril are making me go back into the glory days of “Atomic Age” / “Space Age” tech, when robots were going to look like Will Robertson’s friend (modeled on the one in Forbidden Planet if you want a black-and-white sci-fi movie that’s actually good, not just worth watching for the J&D) and aliens were going to differ from humans principally in their clothing choices.

            • MaxSpaceman

              B & W ?!? Maybe you watched it way back when! on a b&w television. Cuz I’ve seen it a bunch of times in tech nih cull er.

            • Robert Eckert

              Indeed I have not seen it since childhood. I am reminded of a Calvin where he asks his dad (always a mistake) why old pictures and movies were black-and-white and dad says “It was the whole world that was black and white back then. We didn’t start to get any color until the 30’s and then it was pretty grainy…” — “But when the world turned color, why didn’t the pictures turn color?” — “They were color pictures of things that were black and white!” — “But old paintings are in color” — “Well, you know, most artists are insane” — “MOOOOOMMMM!”

            • WildaBeast

              Why is that woman wearing an evening gown in the middle of a deserted alien plain? Some people, honestly…fashion trumps everything for them…

            • MaxSpaceman

              Actually it’s an ahead-of-its time mini-skirt !
              In the 50s, the skirt that Anne Francis wore must’ve been considered scandalous, as it was very short as, say, Ice-skater’s skirts. But since it was on a Forbidden Planet as it were, it got over.

            • Gerard Plourde

              It was real but it was developed independent of NASA. Here’s the link to the Wikipedia article. (Spoiler alert – the government didn’t pay an arm and a leg for it. They bought 400 of them for $2.95 each.)

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Pen

            • Robert Eckert

              So they were “real” like the Sea Monkeys and the X-Ray Specs?

            • Gerard Plourde

              No – they actually worked and are still being made today.

              http://www.spacepen.com

            • Robert Eckert

              Well I’m glad to know at least one of those wow-spacey gadgets worked!

            • grundoon

              Mine didn’t work. Not buying another one.

            • MaxSpaceman

              Sea Monkey! My fave Mozilla browser. http://www.seamonkey-project.org/

            • http://frankdisalleisadummy.wordpress.com/ Get Chutney Love

              You and I both, Max. I’ve been using it for a few years, you’re the first person on the Internets that I’ve run into who knows something about it.

            • Anonymous

              I actually ordered the Sea Monkeys as a kid…OY.

              Maybe that’s why the Sea Org seemed so intriguing later on…

            • georget1952

              Me Too! That was a let down for me, I thought they were gonna look like the picture LOL

            • Anonymous

              It was defintiely a case of better marketing than product delivery…

            • Gerard Plourde

              I was always intrigued by the ad for them on the backs of comic books. I never got around to ordering them though. Imagine my disappointment to learn many years later that they were brine shrimp.

            • Anonymous

              Yep…my tropical fish thought they were pretty good though…so at least they were sorta useful…

            • Robert Eckert

              I had a microscope when I was a kid. Brine shrimp are neat if you can really look at them. The shrimp I got weren’t the sea monkeys, though, some rather smaller species.

            • J. Swift

              I bought a Fisher Space Pen just to see if it really could write upside down. It could and it did but then what? How often was I inverted? Unless one was an astronaut, the FSP was very expensive as far as pens go.

              A much better buy back then for was the “Starter Capitalist” was the famous Cross pen and mechanical pencil set.

              Back then, back when the US v USSR Space Race was on, if you were young and had a set of these handsome writing instruments in the pocket of your button down, heavily starched, white cotton Brooks Brother shirt it told people you were going places. Add a silk rep tie, a navy blue suit, and meticulously shined black leather wing tip shoes to complete the look of an IBM sales rep:

              http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a563/OTVIIIisGrrr8/Cross_zps028d0fa2.png

            • grundoon

              I had a Space Pen, also from the Tang promotion. It stopped writing after a few days.

            • Gerard Plourde

              I think mine was less than reliable as well. (That said, it may still be kicking around the house somewhere.)

            • Cat Daddy

              Maybr it’s woth a few bucks as an artifact

            • Gerard Plourde

              Could be, if I can find it.

            • Captain Howdy

              They didn’t need coffee or jolt. Those NORAD guys were wired to the gills on preludin and dexies.

            • jeff

              Adderall was routinely used recently by fighter pilots in Afghanistan.

              PS – Avoid the “Theraflu” heroin masquerading as China White. It’s laced with fentanyl and has been responsible for something like 100 deaths already.

            • Captain Howdy

              Thanks for the warning but i hardly do that anymore and the only connection I had moved out of the building last week, so I’m good to go as far as that’s concerned. I’ve lost a couple of friends to the fentanyl thing. That stuff is deadly, to say the least.

            • Troy MacGyver

              I’m lost what is mixed with fentanyl? Curious because I just had surgery and I’m wearing fent patches but they don’t seem to be doing much? I remember that the Russians who took over the theatre pumped it into the thatre but wonder what it has to do w/ heroin ad Thra flu?

            • jeff

              Heroin.

            • jeff
            • jeff

              I’m glad you’re not doing it anymore. I remember reading a post of yours on NYE, I think, where you talked about doing the whole bag – so I was uncertain whether you were a current or former junkie.

            • WildaBeast

              FUCK Fentanyl. I fucking hate that shit. I knew a guy – he was a bit of a moron but didn’t deserve this – who was squatting under a bridge; he did some Fentanyl cause there was nothing else around, nodded out, his hand fell into the candle he’d been using to cook his hit, and he didn’t wake up for a while…he lost two fingers, and was lucky at that. That was years ago. Three other people I knew peripherally died in the same few months. When the dope came back, the funerals stopped.
              It wouldn’t be nearly as dangerous as it is if you could just tell how much of the fucking patch you were cooking. Gel, honestly…they don’t need to make them full of gel; I’ve seen patches that weren’t gel, and those were considerably safer.

            • Anonymous
            • WildaBeast

              I’ve heard that one. It was bloody hilarious.

        • http://frankdisalleisadummy.wordpress.com/ Get Chutney Love

          I heard this story from my piano teacher who studied with the pianist Louis Kentner. Early in the 1960s, after a concert at Washington University, he was invited to a party at an alumnis’ house.

          Mrs. Kentner told her husband after a short time there: “These people have a lot of money.”

          M. Kentner: “Why do you say that?”

          Mme. Kentner: “They have color television and their servants are white.”

      • http://www.4chan.org/ Vistaril

        Hmmmm . . . did you know that fax machines were being used in the offices of Radio Corporation of America (RCA) in 1924. The EMCC Univac was delivered to Prudential Insurance in June 1950. NBC began broadcasting colour television in September 1956, while Fairchild Semiconductor was formed a year later in 1957.

        • Robert Eckert

          I did not know of early fax machines, my bad. However, they were enormously expensive (like the Univac, which as I said cost over a million dollars) and were not produced in any quantity until Xerox came up with a cost-effective one in the mid-60’s, which is also when color broadcasting ceased to be anything more than an occasional experiment. I took your references to TI and Fairchild to be implying that things like calculators and microprocessors were responsible for the Apollo program: neither were available to the astronauts, who relied on massive multi-million mainframes in Houston.

          • LongNeckGoose

            Interesting story about the computer in the lunar module (lander) on Apollo 11. It was shared by both the landing radar and the rendezvous radar, but could only handle the input from one at a time. The astronauts were supposed to manually turn off the input from the rendezvous radar before turning on the landing radar, but Buzz Aldrin thought it might be a good idea to leave the rendezvous radar on so they wouldn’t have to wait for it to initialize in case of an emergency. Neil Armstrong thought Aldrin (a/k/a Dr. Rendezvous) knew what he was talking about so he said OK. Then the computer starting sending alarms (“1202 alarm” “1201 alarm”) as they were landing. Luckily, one guy in Mission Control knew enough about it that the landing was not aborted. Armstrong found himself heading for a boulder field instead of the landing site that had been selected, but did bring it down safely with about 30 seconds of fuel left. If the mission had been aborted, they would have gone down in history as two of the biggest screw-ups in history instead of two of the biggest heroes. And as Paul Harvey used to say, now you know the rest of the story. Good… day.

      • Anonymous

        Fairchild was found in 1957. I know the kids some of the founders. Schockley invented the first transistors years before Fairchild was made into a company.

        The mass commercialization of the transistor (especially in the non-military consumer arena) was later, but well underway before Armstrong landed on the moon…transistor radios for instance were available in the 50’s.

        As always, a great deal of the technology that eventually makes its way into consumer awareness grew it roots much earlier, usually in military applications but frequently also in industrial production methodologies.

        • Robert Eckert

          I was thinking of the first microprocessors, not the first transistors. Anyway, when I grew up in the Fifties hardly anybody had ever seen color television or heard of a fax machine; I never heard of either until a decade later. Muscle cars, telegrams/telexes, room-filling computers, grainy newsreels: that was still the face of tech.

          • Observer

            I first saw a fax machine in 1984, and a cell phone in 1985. The phone comprised a briefcase, 3/4 of which was the base unit/charger and the remaining 1/4 was the phone itself. It cost, IIRC, somewhere upward of $5,000.

            • Espiando

              The fax machine might have come to significant public attention for the first time in 1972, thanks to Hunter S. Thompson spreading fear and loathing on the campaign trail accompanied by his Mojo Wire. The Mojo Wire was a Xerox product, so it had some kind of number for a name. I know it’s contained in a footnote in the book, but I don’t feel like getting up to consult my paperback copy right now.

            • Missionary Kid

              Xerox had a fax machine that was the size of a small suitcase that they marketed from a separate division they set up in 1970. It used an acoustic coupler and a rotating drum and zinc oxide paper.

              This was a smaller version of the LDX (Long Distance Xerography) machine first introduced in 1964 and weighed 44 lbs. By 1970, it probably weighed about 15 pounds, as I remember it.

      • Missionary Kid

        Sorry, but fax machines were around, even before the telephone. “The Pantelegraph was invented by the Italian physicist Giovanni Caselli. He introduced the first commercial telefax service between Paris and Lyon in 1865, some 11 years before the invention of telephones.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fax#Wire_transmission

        It was crude, and took up an entire room, and it had a different name, but it was a fax machine, capable of transmitting pictures over wire. ;-)

        • Robert Eckert

          Yes, my bad. I had never heard of such things until they started to become small and practical and that is not until late 60’s.

          • Missionary Kid

            I just had to be a wise-ass. The fact that fax machines were that old blew me away when I read about it.

            • Robert Eckert

              I was impressed that Vistaril came up with an example of one in commercial usage in the 20’s.

            • Missionary Kid

              The transmission of photographs over wires for newspapers was, for years, done by a fax. I forget the name of the system, but one of the reasons that Lindbergh became as popular as he did was that it was possible to send pictures of him, the plane, and events surrounding it across the Atlantic.

      • MaxSpaceman

        In addition to the flashing lights of those 1950s computers, they were operated by ‘punch cards’.

        • Robert Eckert

          A buddy of mine still has a working keypunch.

        • Missionary Kid

          Data entry and programming was still being done by punch card in the late 60s. Make one mistake in one field, and a program would blow up by running in a loop. It was a PITA.

          • Robert Eckert

            You had to waste time punching sequence cards in the last columns, or else the one you didn’t would be the time you dropped the deck of cards.

        • Eclipse-girl

          I learned Basic and Fortran in the mid 1970s ON PUNCH CARDS

          • Robert Eckert

            My buddy and I wrote our own Fortran compiler because what IBM supplied sucked. We wrote it in what would now be called “assembly language” but back then was called Autocoder because it (WOW!) coded itself (that is, you didn’t have to remember the machine’s op codes and hand count the address numbers).

            • Eclipse-girl

              I remember assembly code. It that was for a different system

            • Techie

              HAH! I wrote a printer driver in Fortran for the S100 on CP/M. And before that I coded using paper tape in Focal on a PDP-8. You young whipper-snappers have it easy booting up just by turning on the power. We had to key in a program of about 20 lines using buttons on the front panel just to get the computer smart enough to read about 5 paper tapes on an old telex terminal just to get started. And then all you got was a prompt. Had to hike 5 miles to school in the snow, too, uphill both ways!

            • Robert Eckert

              There was a cartoon like: “In my days we had to code all in ones and zeroes” — “You had ones and zeroes? We had to use the capital letters I and O”

    • Gerard Plourde

      I think that what we have is a case of Hubbard playing to a target audience, i.e. the audience that read his pulp science fiction and, to a lesser extent, browsers of Popular Science and Popular Mechanics (two staple publications which touted the modern technological wonders). His own grasp of the technology is pretty dubious if his tale of his encounter with the “electronic brain” that Tony featured a while ago is any guide.

      • Robert Eckert

        But it was a “four factoral problem”! What could a computer do but develop a neurosis?

        • Gerard Plourde

          Ask the brain in the next room that thought up the questions, silly.

    • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

      I have to wonder if Hubbard believed that the e-meter did something meaningful or if he just saw it as an important distraction that gave weight to auditing, the way a swaying pocket watch creates a distraction for the hypnotist.

      • kemist

        Perhaps that’s what he thought at first, but the way he used it in later life and the weird experiments he performed with the modified meter that was supposed to zap his own dead space cooties suggests that he eventually ended up believing his own crap.

      • http://www.4chan.org/ Vistaril

        I know! Lets hypnotise the hypnotist by getting them to concentrate on a “sacred” gizmo so they don’t realise the real world consequences of carefully writing down people’s deepest darkest secrets.

        These days, its all a bit easier because the important auditing thought-processing sessions are all bugged. In fairness, Scientology does have a commitment to top-knotch technology and it can be found in its application to the the intelligence-gathering required to maintain the fraud.

      • 3feetback-of-COS

        They had a meter!… So it HAD to scientific!!

    • Sidney18511

      Vistaril. I remember reading about the scientific experiments that proved that engrams only existed in the mind of LRH, but I can’t seems to find it. Can you or someone point me to a link?

      • http://www.4chan.org/ Vistaril

        here ’tis: http://home.snafu.de/tilman/krasel/dianetics_test.html

        . . . Although the negative results do not preclude success at another time and although the N in this case is only one, it is the opinion of the investigators that the negative results of the experiment are fairly conclusive since the experimental conditions were well controlled. . .

        ^^^ QFT

    • Ms. B. Haven

      Nicely stated Vistaril. I was going to say something similar but you said it far more eloquently than I could have. I’ll just share an e-meter story instead. In the early 80s I was sent on a SO mission to Reno, Nevada. I wasn’t in the SO, but it was common practice to ‘deputize’ staff from orgs & missions as SO missionaires and send them out on low level missions because the SO was so short handed. While at the Mission in Reno, one of their public brought in an e-meter that they found and purchased at a swap meet. It was an old, war surplus looking model that actually had a Mathison label on it, not Hubbard, so it was very old indeed. Probably very early 50s vintage. Everyone was ohh-ing and awe-ing over this thing. It even appeared to work function! After I got out of the cult, I became aware that Reno was something of a hotbed of Freezone activity. I would speculate that some Freezoner got their hands on this artifact and is pleasantly content that they have the real thing from the early days before the movement started going downhill. Sadly, there is still no basis for why the e-meter works according to scientology. It is taken as a matter of faith not science. Like Mr. Atack says, “In other words, if you don’t agree with the use of the E-meter, it doesn’t work.” I say this because when I got back from the SO mission and went thru the de-briefing Sec Check, nothing showed up on the meter and there most definitely should have been something show up because of a certain very attractive staff member in Reno. Let’s just leave it at that. Sigh…

      • Anonymous

        Nevada, (Sparks IIRC) was also one of Hubbard’s temporary hideouts when he was on the lam after the FBI raids on Scientology facilities…

        • Lady Squash

          My first experience with Dianetics/Scientology was in Reno. The director was an ass and he kicked me out of his Mission. I was crushed at the time because I was really interesting in finding out what this was all about. I was asking too many questions and this annoyed him. I wanted to read a bio on Hubbard and the Mission Director thought I should be satisfied by a dust jacket on one of his books. And now I understand why the Director was so annoyed by all my questions. The whole operation was based on lies. And once again, Shakespeare had it right. Something about protesting too much. Ah, hindsight.

    • J. Swift

      Excellent short essay Vistaril.

      The e-meter Hubbard introduced into Scientology in 1952 was designed and patented by Los Angeles chiropractor and electrical inventor Volney Mathison. This device was manufactured by Arcon Mfg, of Los Angeles.

      Mathison developed auditing techniques, used the meter in his chiropractic practice, and sold his device and books to other chiropractors.

      Hubbard obtained global rights from Mathison to market and sell the Mathison e-meter. Mathison excluded L.A. and NYC from the rights, but this was never enforced as Mathison was an enthusiastic early Scientologist.

      The e-meter allowed Hubbard to morph Dianetics into Scientology.

      Hubbard acknowledged Mathison’s invention and early auditing techniques.

      http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i68/sadhu77/Mathison4-1.png

    • Cat Daddy
      • Techie

        This is the boss comparing the MK V to a MK IV, maybe for research or just a posed PR shot to make it look like he cared. I think the box in the background is a motorized pot used to check for sticks in the needle – it could gradually increase the resistance, making the needle move across the dial slowly. Any hesitations in the needle motion indicate a sticky pivot-and-jewel bearing.

        • Cat Daddy

          All Photos of Hubbard are PR shots

  • Eclipse-girl

    I am appalled at the crap on Life Continuum.
    It essentially tells you not to mourn the person who died. Mourning will lead you to be like the person who died.
    That is just so full of shit.

    I have had family and friends die. I am sad that each and every one of these people is gone. They made my life richer.

    Scientology and Ron using a fact of life, DEATH, as a way to remove empathy and compassion from people

  • Bradley Greenwood

    I have the perfect “e-meter”… my wife. And, no, I do not have to hold her can for her to get a reading.

    • Sejanus

      Yeah but I bet it is awfully fun to…lol

  • Truthiwant

    A few fun facts about the e-meter…

    Occasionally there is no read on the e-meter and this is because the PC’s hands are too dry. The auditor always has a bottle of gel or cream on the table and squirts it on the PCs hands and asks him to rub it in. It’s revolting holding these greasy cans afterwards.

    Sometimes the cans are too cold to use and I have seen on more than one occasion the auditor holding the cans under his armpits to heat them up before giving them to the PC.

    A show off Scientologist I knew once bragged about himself not being able to continue with auditing for two weeks because his ‘win’ was so big that every time he tried to go back in to session he had an immediate F/N (Floating Neadle). Must be the sort of Scientology equivalent to a three hour orgasm.

    • http://www.4chan.org/ Vistaril

      . . . A show off Scientologist I knew once bragged about himself not being able to continue with auditing for two weeks because his ‘win’ was so big that every time he tried to go back in to session he had an immediate F/N (Floating Needle). Must be the sort of Scientology equivalent to a three hour orgasm.

      Was his name Billy?

      • Truthiwant

        No, it was here in Italy and his name was Luigi.

  • Eclipse-girl

    after my rant about life continuum and death and mourning

    I would like to thank Jon for all the info he has shared with us. I am grateful to have learned more about the in workings of the chirch, and its technology. The e-meter is a piece of crap

    • Kristi Evans

      Yeah… seems to me that it’s a good science fair project idea for my middle schooler, and little more.

  • Xique

    I will never pick up those soup cans again, but for those who will pick them up today, in the name of spiritual counseling , may you come to the realization that the emeter is a joke. My suggestion, “put the cans down”.

  • Edward Whalley

    Actually, I’ve heard that you could build a decent e-meter into an iPhone app. Considering that you can buy the guts for a whole COMPUTER for about $40, it would be fun to have around (I’d put it next to my replica Enigma and Apple 1!)

    • Gabbyone

      I think there should be a Bunker app.

    • Zaphod Beeblebrox

      Already been done:

      http://theta-meter.com/

      • Edward Whalley

        $600 for something on a stick? I’m gonna hold out for open source!

        • Zaphod Beeblebrox

          Ha!

  • Observer

    They forewent further boozing, and watched closely during the next test, which confirmed, beyond a shadow of doubt, that half of the reads on the Mark V were self-generated … In the early seventies, there was a project to discipline anyone who had shown a rock slam during auditing [except LRH, of course] … The suffering caused to Sea Org members, because of this elementary mistake, is awful to contemplate.

    And this happened under Ron. Not Miscavige. RON.

    • Espiando

      And List 1 led to the maturation of the RPF into the gulag it has become. And List 1 led to the development of Super Power in an attempt to “repair” the individuals it damaged, which mutated into Scientology’s ultimate rip-off scheme. And List 1 led to the culture of paranoia that infuses the organization from top to bottom.

      And it happened under Ron.

      The threads are visible. Yet there are those that refuse to see.

      And you wonder why I go after the Indies for clinging on to this repulsive philosophy.

      • Observer

        Nope, I don’t wonder at all.

      • Kristi Evans

        I don’t wonder at all, either, it’s just the cognitive dissonance required to adhere to the philosophy and stay in, probably takes awhile to de-program, once out. I do wonder what percentage of indies ultimately remain believers.

        • Eclipse-girl

          I think you could make a graph of it, one axis has to be time out of the cult.

          • Sejanus

            I imagine the Ex SCN’s by now must outnumber the ones remaining in.

            COUP anyone?

            Come on, not like it wasn’t done in the 80’s

            Think of that sweet sweet cha ching and honestly
            who wouldn’t like a solid gold toilet with matching RPFer footstool and wiper!

      • Eclipse-girl

        Espi, in my darker, non compassionate moods I get very angry at the “newly minted” exes.

        I want them to KNOW everything that we do. It took us time to gain the knowledge that we did. We have to give them time. The waiting sucks. I am still waiting for Mike Rinder to change.

        • Kristi Evans

          E-g, how long were you out before you shed the bulls*** philosophy?

          • Eclipse-girl

            I am a Never in. I have been vulnerable during periods of my life. I am grateful I was never preyed upon.

            • Kristi Evans

              No shit! I know there were years around my teen years, especially, where I well could have fallen for it.

            • Eclipse-girl

              Many of us never ins may have developed a heightened sense of empathy because of the rough times that we endured in our lives.

              After going through Claire Headley’s articles, the indoctrination used is hypnotic and stops a person from thinking (thought control)

              I do have empathy for those who were preyed upon.

            • Robert Eckert

              I also am a never-in whose fascination with the subject is heightened by my own psychological frailties memories of vulnerable times. I don’t think I would ever have fallen for this particular bunch of woo-woo, but there was certainly a lot of other weird stuff I talked myself into, and a good manipulator could have found hooks for my young self.

        • Zaphod Beeblebrox

          They’ll all become fully-fledged exes sooner or later; you just have to give it time. Look at how long it took Marty Rathbun to fully decompress.

          • Eclipse-girl

            I want to believe what you say. But the time involved for each individual is so darn variable.

            I am grateful that Marty is denouncing scientology. I have yet to hear that Mike has made any similar statements.

            I recently saw a video of a “freezoner”, someone who left very early on, and they still believe. I think it was a vid of some female actress’s father. I want to say it was Anne archer’s dad

            • Zaphod Beeblebrox

              Was that Phil Spickler, by any chance? (Mimi Rogers’ dad)

            • Eclipse-girl

              YES, and I will correct my post. TY for knowing who I was writing about

            • Zaphod Beeblebrox

              You’re welcome.

              You are right about the time thing, by the way – it is very variable – some people take a few months to fully decompress, others take many years, and a few may not ever fully wake up. Look at, say, Steve Hall. He left in 2004, around the same time as Marty, and he still believes, as far as I know. (As I said last week, he even managed to shoehorn Ron’s 8 dynamics of life into a guide about being creative)

              And yes, I am too pleased about Marty finally denouncing Scientology. Mike Rinder, meanwhile, hasn’t denounced Ron Hubbard’s teachings as of yet, but from what I’ve read of his blog, he does seem to be a lot more objective and balanced these days.

            • Eclipse-girl

              I know the Mike will say that Ron was not a saint. But he does defend the tech or beliefs of scientology. I think it would be a huge blow for the indies if Mike walked away from them.

              I like getting news about the various indies, though.

            • Mooser

              “I have yet to hear that Mike has made any similar statements.”

              Rinder in the curly-whirly during his ride: “Okay Davey, you’ve heard of Ron’s Navy, but here comes Ron’s Air Force!”

            • Eclipse-girl

              Mooser, sometimes you baffle me.

              Wouldnt this be supporting the idea the Ron’s AF has to bother the awful squirrel, DM, who has changed the tech? It doesn’t deal with the fact that Ron was a lying bastard who only had snake oil to sell.

          • Mooser

            Seems to me a one-to-one ratio would be fair. For every year a person has spent in Scientology, they need to spend a year out of Scientology. Does that seem unreasonable, especially for those in the upper echelons.

            • Zaphod Beeblebrox

              No, it doesn’t seem unreasonable, Mooser. That’s a very good point you’ve made.

          • RockSlammer

            I suspect that Marty was catapulted into awakening’ by the persistent, tortuous harassment he and his wife were subjected to by OSA and their all-singing all-dancing troupe of squirrel busters. It shoved a reason to actually think about his ‘church’s’ and his own conduct in scientology right on his front door step. I’m not confident at all that all Indies will eventually wake up to the malignancy Ron built into their ‘religion’. They think it can be salvaged by 86ing McSavage.

            • Shirley Eugeste

              “All-singing all-dancing” gave me a snort/chuckle (snorkel?)… then (for some reason) it made me think of Busby Berkeley’s “We’re in the Money,” and that peculiar spectacle was immediately followed by memories of the original “Night of the Living Dead Trailer.” And, of course, because we are living in times of great bounty, both are on You Tube:

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJOjTNuuEVw

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gUKvmOEGCU

            • Cat Daddy
            • pronoia

              That is some thread. Wow.

            • Zaphod Beeblebrox

              You’re right, of course: quite a few indies do seem to believe that Scientology can be salvaged by ’86ing’ McSavage, and you make a very valid point about Marty.

              The thing to remember though, in my opinion at least, is that from what I’ve read and seen, a lot of these Indie types who think that it was ‘all good under Ron’ are people who were in the cult for many years; so naturally a lot of these people may take a long time to wake up, if they ever do wake up (and I’m not saying that every single Indie will wake up.

              Like you say, though, Marty’s harrassment was probably a major factor, and I also think that as these people adapt to the real world, they start to slowly realise the truth; whether that be via less exposure to Ron’s bullcrap, finding out information about what really happened, or simply spending time with ‘wogs’.

              P.S. Sorry for the long post.

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        Espie of course you are right on the facts – but… I have sympathy for anyone who gets out, and they need time to decompress. That’s where the compassion comes in.

      • LeahRocks

        I am a never in, but I read somewhere that Mike Rinder may be still affiliating him self with Ron’s teachings publicly in order to provide a safe place for still ins. We don’t know what he truly believes on any given day, but we’re he to denounce Hubbard, I think he might lose his effectiveness in helping some lurkers make the move.

        • Anonymous

          Mike has been pretty clear that he has no remaining affection for Hubbard’s management tech…his comments are fairly unambiguous.

          His current position on the auditing tech is less unambiguous but he is allowing a pretty free-form conversation in the comments section of his blog.

          It’s impossible to know what he may be disallowing via moderation, but with what is being allowed through I’d have to say that his is operating with very wide latitude in terms of the range of opinions from others.

        • Cat Daddy

          HALF WAY HOUSE

    • mimsey borogrove

      I really wish people like Mr.Atack wouldn’t make comments that the meter works by variations in the sweat glands or sweating and unsweating. It is complete BS. There is no way it is physically possible for the variations in sweat to account for the lightning fast reactions of an e-meter needle. And to present an allegation that one meter has random reads, infers all meters have them is nuts. Back in the MK 5 days, if you got random reads, you just squirted some lighter fluid in the pots, worked them back and forth and the random reads went away. It was well enough known at the time that there were written HCO advices on how to do it.

      Beside, any auditor worth their salt, knew enough not to take up random reads. They were not stupid.

      Sure the quality of construction was cheap, the meter and had holes in it could be fooled, but saying it reacts on sweat, well, that dog don’t hunt.

      Mimsey

      • Gerard Plourde

        The e-meter works on the principle of galvanic skin response. Moisture from the sweat glands is one of the substances that facilitates the flow of electricity through the skin. Here’s the Wikipedia article that gives a fuller explanation.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_conductance

        • mimsey borogrove

          Yes, there has to be perspiration for conductivity – but – the amount of sweat on the skin can not vary in micro seconds. Example: You ask a person to consider the events of the day. He happens to think of, lets say his wife berating him, and the needle makes two small ticks, up and down in quick succession, with the needle on the second tick going higher and lower than the first tick. This takes place in, what, a 25th of a second?
          For that reaction to happen, in terms of variation of conductivity, he would have to sweat, unsweat, sweat slightly more, then unsweat slightly more, all in a few fractions of a second. All this while holding a can (electrode) in each hand which blocks exposure to the air, preventing evaporation. Sorry – it doesn’t work that way. What that article refers to are gradual changes, not instantaneous reactions. It is changes in the bodies electrical field that influence the e-meter’s current that shows up in the needle reactions.
          Mimsey

          • Gerard Plourde

            I agree that what is being measured is the change in the body’s electrical resistance. The difficulty lies in the interpretation of the data. Your example posits a reaction to an open-ended question. When the auditor sees the reaction on the e-meter, s/he doesn’t know what caused it. The subsequent questions disclose the cause and the subsequent question and answer process shapes the outcome. The subject isn’t allowed to terminate the session until the desired response appears on the e-meter. What is occurring is a session in operant conditioning.

          • Jon Atack

            the movement of the glands can take place rather more quickly than the moisture… it isn’t the sweat but the changes in the glands.

      • Once_Born

        If you are relying on the e-meter to measure… whatever it is that it is supposed to measure… how do you tell the difference between a real, and a random read? Admitting the possibility of a random read is equivalent to saying that:

        1) The e-meter is not suitable for purpose
        2) You don’t really need an e-meter, because you can tell a significant event apart from a random read without needing an e-meter.

        Besides…

        1) The amount of moisture on” the surface of the skin is demonstrably a factor in the response of this kind of circuit
        2) “[…] lighting fast reactions” can be produced by tightening or relaxing your grip on the cans.

        Finally…’squirting some lighter fuel into the pots’ will erode carbon from the tracks and completely skew the calibration. That’s no way to treat a precision instrument. Better to replace those pots with quality items that don’t erode so quickly.

        Deciding what is, or is not, a valid read seems to rely so much on judgement, that the e-meter is little more than a prop, designed to lend spurious credibility to the process. Which is, in fact, what it is.

      • Jon Atack

        How fast do you think your sweat glands react? And the readings taken against the Mark V were nothing to do with sweat glands (which is, btw, the conventional explanation for the variety of wheatstone bridge devices used since Jung’s time in counselling and lie detecting). HOw would you know which were the ‘random reads’? What is your physiological explanation for the changes in resistance in the body? And how do you measure the ‘lightning’ speed of these reads, as they are certainly related to the movement of electricity through the body, and the sweat glands (which react rather quickly, you’ll find) are a fair explanation. Can I also point out that Jabberwocky says ‘borogoves’ not ‘borogroves’ (which appeared as a misprint in early US editions)…

    • Phil de Fontenay

      Yes! Very good point. This was new news to me. Shockingly horrifying! :(

  • Molar Mountre

    I’m surprised that Scientology never picked up the use of an EEG meter to pick up “Theta” waves.

    • Observer

      EEGs were well-known and useful enough that Ron couldn’t have co-opted them for Scientology’s exclusive use and/or claimed it was his his invention/discovery.

      • Molar Mountre

        I’m sure they could have used the excuse about “Theta” waves, since they are all about using that word to describe themselves. “This is an all-new ‘Theta meter’ that detects the ‘Theta’ waves inside a person.” It would at least be reliable in telling if the person was accessing real memories and not making up some BS about past lives during auditing. They really missed the opportunity on that one.

    • kemist

      They could not sell those at an interesting markup.

      EEGs are a special type of extra-sensitive galvanometer called a SQUID. Those cost a lot more than souped-up ohmmeters to build.

      Also you have to be a bit more knowledgeable to operate it than for an e-meter, if only to set it up.

  • https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/january-25th-dublin-ireland-post-game.116500/#post-2413167 InterestedinCrazy

    As a never-in, I know very little about the e-meter so I was looking for some background information to understand the post above and the comments better and found this site: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/E-Meter/

    Very old but so interesting!

    “Needle actions can be faked. Martin Hunt confessed to faking an F/N (floating needle, a movement that signals the end of an auditing process) by gently squeezing the cans. E-meter drill 9 and drill 13 are supposed to teach auditors to recognize such actions, but they don’t always catch them. Pxxxxxx Jxxx and Arnie Lerma have found that a violent needle movement called arockslam can be produced simply by checking the electrode leads, or by corrosion in the plug contacts.”

    I hope the sauna and the meter room are far apart. I’d say all that heat isn’t good for the plug contacts!

    Is the guy with the ring supposed to be DM?

    • Mark

      Is an “inegnue” an Eskimo egg-storage facility, or just a oviparous species of gnu?

      • ze moo

        Everyone knows Eskimos keep their eggs in the refrigerator. An egg laying gnu would be cool,

    • Mooser

      “Needle actions can be faked.Martin Hunt confessed to faking an F/N
      (floating needle, a movement that signals the end of an auditing
      process) by gently squeezing the cans.

      (my bold)

      Well, duh! Imagine that, he fooled the e-meter!

  • Sejanus

    Just think of all the problems these crappy bits of ancient technology have caused for oh so many.

    For some…years of punishment, suffering, families destroyed, accusations levelled, mental abuses and deaths all on the say of under $40 in poor electronics.

    While the price and gouging may amuse, the practical application of these devices does not.

    It is easy to point at Dildo Master and level all the ills on him, which are currently well deserved, but he learned at the feet of the Master Bastard.

  • https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/january-25th-dublin-ireland-post-game.116500/#post-2413167 InterestedinCrazy

    Does anyone have any idea how they are selling after the launch of GAG II?

    • Sejanus

      As well as Easy Bake ovens can

    • MaxSpaceman

      This is it: *all* $cilon members *must* buy a new meter. All others are being de-commissioned, so to speak. Miscavige & R T C have set it up so that any one doing processing-training-levels auditing of any kind *must* do it on the only valid e-meter, that is the new one.

      If there are 15,000 active members, that’ll be $60 million for 10 year old e-meters.

      • Eclipse-girl

        I thought they sold for $5,000, and you need 2 of them.

        so that is 10,000 x 15,000 = 150,000,000 (150 mil)

        Where have I screwed up?

        • MaxSpaceman

          You right – me wuz calculating on 1 meter per. Forgot that each member – even husband and wife living in the same house – needs 2 !

          • Eclipse-girl

            can you imagine having to purchase 4 or more of those pieces of crap?

            • MaxSpaceman

              a quick $20,000 cash money. ooooooof.

            • joan nieman

              But Eclipse-girl, nobody needs to buy anything. Oh! It is infuriating!

  • PickAnotherID

    What a scam. You can get a linesman Wheatstone bridge in a ruggidized, water proof, case for $150 – $200, depending on what extras you want. E.g., storage for various test leads, spare batteries, etc., built into the case.

    • RMycroft

      But it doesn’t have the Crazy Inside sticker.

  • kemist

    Germanium transistors, lolol…

    Germanium transistors tend to distort the signal at quite low frequencies compared to silicon. For some applications, such as amplifiers for music, some people appreciate the distorsion, as it tends to eliminate high frequencies in sound to make it more “round”. But it’s definitely not the component I’d use for a precision instrument.

    • stanrogers

      Do you have any reason to believe that there would be any signals (even transients) involved in a skin response galvanometer circuit that would lie above the SLF band? I’m not defending the machine at all (I’m sure 2N2222s would have been just as cheap and just as ineffective, with reduced thermal anomalies), but bringing up frequency response problems with germanium transistors that don’t actually manifest themselves until the middle of the VLF range (and are easily controllable with feedback until the upper half of the HF range) makes no sense from an engineering perspective. There is plenty to snort at with the silly half-a-lie-detector device (that is probably part of every interested kid’s Radio Shack n-projects-in-one breadboard kit), but frequency response isn’t one of them. Let’s laugh at the stuff that’s actually laughable, shall we?

      • Techie

        Actually the rotten max operating frequency of the germanium transistor is all that saves it from wild RF oscillations. The whole circuit has no bypass capacitors. When it was designed in the late 50’s silicon was too new to use. It was actually a primitive alloy type transistor, made one at a time not in a wafer as now.

        • Mooser

          You know what? I bet the very non-repeatability of the e-meter makes it even more fascinating to believers. If it gave reliable, repeatable, readings, it might be too obvious where the readings are coming from.

    • stanrogers

      Do you have any reason to believe that there would be any signals (even transients) involved in a skin response galvanometer circuit that would lie above the SLF band? I’m not defending the machine at all (I’m sure 2N2222s would have been just as cheap and just as ineffective, with reduced thermal anomalies), but bringing up frequency response problems with germanium transistors that don’t actually manifest themselves until the middle of the VLF range (and are easily controllable with feedback until the upper half of the HF range) makes no sense from an engineering perspective. There is plenty to snort at with the silly half-a-lie-detector device (that is probably part of every interested kid’s Radio Shack n-projects-in-one breadboard kit), but frequency response isn’t one of them. Let’s laugh at the stuff that’s actually laughable, shall we?

    • Mooser

      “But it’s definitely not the component I’d use for a precision instrument.”

      How do you figure the word “precision” figures into it? How can you be “precise” when you don’t even know what it is you are measuring?

      • joan nieman

        You said it Mooser!

      • Once_Born

        I used to take a magazine that published designs for simple electronic devices that you could make yourself – transistor radios, analogue synthesiser modules and the like.

        When they asked for suggestions for future ‘projects’ someone wrote asking them to publish a design for a UFO detector. They not only printed his letter, but also stated that they would set about it – as soon as he submitted a medium-sized UFO for calibration purposes.

    • Cat Daddy
      • Techie

        More like this, Cat Daddy, only painted black. Old School!

        • Robert Eckert

          Cat Daddy’s look more like the aliens in War of the Worlds (Tom Cruise version)

  • mook
    • Eclipse-girl

      The disconnection story was posted yesterday on Mike Rinder’s blog.

      as to the rental of space. I am going with storage for docs that were supposed to be handed over to Monique and Ray Jeffrey

      • Anonymous

        That, or unsold Basics book sets.

        • Eclipse-girl

          how many of those sets do you think still exist?

          • Anonymous

            Quite a few I’m sure. But even if they can’t fill a warehouse wall to wall, ceiling to ceiling, in addition to every orgs boiler room with unsold Basics book sets alone, the GAT II stuff will be there soon enough.

            • ze moo

              Hey they have to make room for GAT 3.

            • Anonymous

              Then tell Davey he needs an incinerator, not me.

        • grundoon

          Library donations returned.

  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

    This article is a gem. It takes several rumours I had heard and connects them.

    You know what else is great. It used to be that if I found an article like this on the internet I would print it off and put it in my file. I don’t have to do that anymore. So many good articles are in one place now, and easy to find.

    • joan nieman

      That is so true Korgo. Right now, my grandson is here visiting and I can only pop in and out to read a little more each time. It is nice to have everything in one place. It’s always there and I can look back to see if I have missed anything.

  • MaxSpaceman

    [The musts: the member must have regretted the person’s death; must have sought and wanted the approval of the person; and must have felt defensive for the departed individual toward the rest of the family.]

    “You’re not going to take the glasses off of, or the arthritis away from, or anything else unless you solve ‘Life Continum’ and it is simply this: Somebody fails, departs or dies. Then the individual takes on the burden of this person’s habits, goals, fears and indiosyncracies. . . . This person is the defender of the person who eventually dies.”

    Oh- okay. Right. After I ‘handle’ Life Continuum issue, I will then have my arthritis or anything else taken away. WOW!! Okay, let’s aw ditt. Stinking Creature From The Black Pits of Hell Lafayette R Hubbard.

    • Eclipse-girl

      Max, I ranted earlier. I am gobsmacked at this film.

      Death is a part of life. Everyone dies.
      It is natural to mourn those who die. No matter what your beliefs about the existence or non existence of an afterlife are. You should be sad because that person is gone, at least for the time being.

      To tell a person that mourning is something that causes problems is just sick, and manipulative.

      Maybe this explains the strange words from the mother of Tayler Tweed, but it is so wrong.

      • Robert Eckert

        Yeah, I had a harsh exchange with Anonymous (Clarence Gideon avatar) over that mom, whom he found much more understandable than I did because he’d seen a lot of that kind of reaction before. I couldn’t contain my rage.

        • Eclipse-girl

          Neither could I. No Parent ever wants to outlive their children. EVER.
          That woman’s attitude still galls me.

          Than my empathic self worries about if she will ever be able to truly mourn her daughter and actually deal with the grief and pain

          • Kristi Evans

            The “application of the tech” has turned that woman into a sociopathic robot, through and through, if you ask me.

        • Anonymous

          Bygons…

          • Robert Eckert

            It’s cool. We have different experiences so we have different triggers.

      • Kristi Evans

        Once again, E-g, this is precisely the person I thought of when I read about the issues LRH had with mourning. Tayler Tweed’s mom saying she was “at peace” with her daughter’s “decision” to blow her own f***ing head off *ten days prior*. Holy. Shit. That last statement from her mom haunts me, still.

  • hansje brinker

    Someone has an E-meter fetish.
    (refresh)

    • Eclipse-girl

      Wasn’t this the collection of some man in CA? he had been in for a long long time.

      He also had an amazing collection of science fiction books and mags.

      • hansje brinker
        • Eclipse-girl

          I am surprised Ed Marsh hasn’t been regged about paying off his mortgage and his collecting

          • Kristi Evans

            I was thinking precisely the same thing… I think that if Miscavige sees this article, Marsh will suddenly not need to decide whether SDSU or the Co$ gets the remainder of his valuable collection…

            • RMycroft

              Scientology thinks that they own all the meters. I predict a team will try to collect them within hours of his death.

            • Eclipse-girl

              So people who both this crap in the 1950s and onwards never owned them?

              It wouldn’t surprise me in Ed March left that part of his collection to scientology. But I wonder how he would react if he were told he didn’t OWN them.

            • RMycroft

              They won’t tell anyone, they’ll just have a team try to collect them with the command intention mindset that they belong to Scientology. Look at the recent bits on Barbara Ayash: She bought a whole bunch of The Way to Happiness-type materials, but the moment that she was struggling with health problems, *bam* a team showed up and collected them from her storage unit.

            • Eclipse-girl

              Ginger Sugarman’s mom?

              Scientology : Its always worse than you think

    • RMycroft

      More Ed (unfortunately Wayback doesn’t have the pictures) :

      A religion for the 20th century: Scientology February 7, 2008, Ruth Marvin Webster, North Country Times

    • Techie

      On the top shelf far left – the Learning Accelerator, meter for Applied Scholastics with its own patented circuit, supposedly non-secular so it can be used in schools. Affectionately known as the Banana meter. In the middle top shelf are Azimuth Alignment meters, also with their own patents and no Scientology or religious connotation, for shipment into the UK during the Scientology materials ban. Second shelf down from the top, one meter in is the original Don Breeding American Blue meter. The basic circuit remained the same from this all the way through the MK VI. The blue one in the plexi case looks like it may be an original LRH signed limited edition MK VI, one of 100 though two or three others were made as replacements after the 100. Sold for $10,000 each to cover VI development costs supposedly. A lot of great oddities here, even a Drills Simulator. Bottom right is the Norman Starkey book “Understanding the E-Meter” with circuitry explanations. Now long gone because it is “not LRH.”

  • BosonStark

    And yet, the old e-meter could find the time of a person’s past life incident down to the nearest second. Amazing!

    • kemist

      So does the C pseudo-random number generator.

      It can even get it down to the nanosecond if you wish.

  • aquaclara

    Blame…death…shame. You know from whence you speak, er, babble, LRH.

    Despite the fuzzy-edged pics and faux Hallmark-style moments here, I just have trouble giving this man any credibility for his wacked-out thinking. It’s quite fun knowing Tony has these leaked vids, along with Marc’s production commentary. But I feel sorry for everyone who has had to listen to this crap and been told it is “scripture.”

    • Gerard Plourde

      That’s why a subject has to go through all of those mind-deadening training exercises before being exposed to the upper levels. Most people being exposed to Hubbard’s ravings with blinders off see it for the trite nonsense that it is. (Trite nonsense that masks the true purpose of mind-control.)

      • aquaclara

        Spot on. Mind-deadening is such a good way to describe the ramp up of indoctrination.

        It is truly painful for me to listen to, or read someone describing their life complete with all Hubbard citations.

      • kemist

        That’s the only way I can explain to myself how anybody finds the affirmation that the purpose of life is to survive meaningful and profound.

        Seriously, that sucks donkey balls.

        He could have formulated it as, I don’t know, the meaning of life is to fight entropy, which has the merits of being technically true (when you stop fighting entropy, you soon reach room temperature, i.e., die) as well as have a nice Sci-Fi trill to it.

        • ze moo

          The only great philosophers who know the meaning of life…

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buqtdpuZxvk

        • ze moo

          The only great philosophers who know the meaning of life…

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buqtdpuZxvk

        • http://www.4chan.org/ Vistaril

          That’s the only way I can explain to myself how anybody finds the affirmation that the purpose of life is to survive meaningful and profound.

          I find the statement rather creepy . . . its a bit like reducing a consideration of life and humanity down to the “viewpoint” of a cockroach.

          • kemist

            Yeah, that too.

            One thing is for sure, the last word I’d use to describe it is “spiritual”.

  • media_lush

    just a little something to add to todays topic

  • Techie

    Minor corrections – the VI had better parts for the knobs (called potentiometers or “pots”) but still had the old germanium Don Breeding circuitry. It was not “someone” who had the idea for the space age oval VI look, that was from Ron himself. The design was done in clay by the “LRH Artist” but was approved by Ron. The VII had the same pots but more modern analog circuitry. They did look at optical but back then it would have been $100 just for one, too expensive.
    Note for the curious – the original Don Breeding transistor meter (called the American Blue meter) used some of the very early plastic transistors that used clear painted plastic. They were light-sensitive, and you could make them read by shining a flashlight into the meter!
    Don’s original circuit, surely one of the wonders of modern electronics, is practically unique among designs in that it was used almost without change from the late 50s all the way through the early 80s. Few circuits have outlasted their parts availability for so long. The biggest change was from primary cells to rechargeable (Mk IV to MK V) and while this distorts the design a bit there is an easy way around it – just make all the major parts in the front end adjustable! The change was unfortunate in that they used a cheap charging arrangement that actually connects the cans to the mains power when charging, depending on which way you plug it in. At least the VI got rid of that safety hazard.
    Techie readers will appreciate that the Don Breeding circuit uses all three basic transistor connection methods: common collector on the front end for high impedance, common emitter for the gain, and common base to drive the meter movement. Don told me he was proud of that.
    Just to be clear, the pots are not the only sources of false dirty needles and rock slams in the meter. The old germanium transistors themselves could put on a pretty dancing needle, all the carbon adjustments, switches, connections, bad soldering, the list is endless. A lot of this is better in the VIII but some can still happen. The Quantum famously has a “Quantum Leap”, a jerk in the needle as you adjust the TA somewhere around 5.1. Hopefully very few PCs spend much time at that high of a TA. And of course any auditor worth his salt ignores needle motions that happen when knobs are being moved. You ask your question with hands off the meter and look for an “instant” read. Doesn’t help if the needle is dancing all the time from a contaminated transistor though.
    It is true that the meter put a lot of people on the RPF. Late 70’s early 80’s when they needed a lot of work done on the old Cedars of Lebanon hospital (soon to be known as the Pacific Base, “PAC” or The Complex), the call went out for Rock Slammers and the meter delivered. It put 100s to work behind tall chain link fences ripping out fiberglass, mudding and taping, replacing electrical and painting geometrical shapes on walls. That was a crazy scene. Strangely, when the work was largely done the rock-slam craze died away. Funny how that happens. At one point in I think ’81 there was just one lonely RPFer in all of PAC. That didn’t last long when the Guardian’s Office and later Incomm moved in wanting more renovations.

    • Mooser

      Keep in mind, even if an “E-meter” was working perfectly, and gave no “false reads” whatsoever, it still doesn’t measure anything!! Not a thing!!
      Anybody who wishes to contend that any emotional, spiritual, mental or physical activity (besides, of course, perspiring) causes an immediate change in the resistance of the body, as measured from hand-to-hand is free to do so. Be my guest.

      It’s not that an e-meter measures badly, the fact is it simply doesn’t ,easure anything. Except gullibility, ignorance of the world around you and your own body, self-involvement, and willingness to put yourself in another person’s power. With a skilled operator, the e-meter can measure those things very well, as long as you never, ever, look at the meter, and concentrate on the ripe tomato hooked to the cans.

      • Techie

        Well, you could say it doesn’t measure the spirit, especially if you don’t believe in the existence of spirits…
        However as well documented in non-Scientology books about the lie detector, it does measure the state of sweat glands, which are affected by emotional state as influenced by the endocrine system. The scam is not that it does nothing, it just doesn’t do anything like what Hubbard said it did. As someone who sadly spent hundreds of hours using emeters, and thousands more repairing them etc., I can attest that they do something.
        Imagine being in a counseling session. The counselor says “Peaches, berries, bananas, oranges.” You can’t see the meter, but the counselor sees a reaction on “bananas”. What does that mean? Don’t know, don’t care. There is a reaction. If you the counselor asks questions about bananas, you will get more reactions. There is “something there.” I am not talking theory here, just what I have personally observed. What reacts once reacts again. You keep asking about bananas, the meter will start to go up (equated to higher resistance, no idea what this means physiologically). It will go up, go down more reactions. Finally it will come back down, the person being counseled will usually smile and seem happy about it, and the meter will show a reaction that is kind of a no-reaction reaction as in it is simply floating around. That is when you stop asking about bananas.
        You could say all this is just what the person being counseled expects, so of course it happens that way. Perfectly true. You could say the illusion of being happier about bananas is just the release of brain chemicals and it is just a kind of natural high. It would be stupid to say, as Hubbard did, that the person being counseled is now permanently cured of wanting to eat bananas or something. Or that he ate too many bananas on Venus while taking the train to Mars and now has a whole track release on the subject of bananas that makes him able to step on their peels without slipping.
        But you cannot say, oh excellent but sometimes contentious denizen of the northern wilds, that it doesn’t measure anything.

        • Mooser

          When the guy says “Bananas” I think about the last time I slipped on a banana peel, and convulsively grip the cans. Lowers the resistance, and you get a “read”.
          You are right, maybe there is something to it!
          But what if when you “Bananas” I think of the Woody Allen movie, which I enjoyed, and let go of the can to slap my knees at the boffo yoks in the film? Boom! You get a read!

          You know, there might be something to it. Let’s try “alimony”! I bet I break out in a sweat.

          • Mooser

            “As someone who sadly spent hundreds of hours using emeters, and thousands more repairing them etc., I can attest that they do something.”

            Then you would be, I’m sorry, but the last person I would ever ask about it. I gave up squeezing the probes on my Lafayette Radio VOM and making the needle jump around about an hour after I got it, when I was about 12 yrs old. Okay, yes, I licked my fingers and tried it, what do you expect, I was almost a teenager!

        • http://www.4chan.org/ Vistaril

          . . . Imagine being in a counseling session. The counselor says “Peaches, berries, bananas, oranges.” You can’t see the meter, but the counselor sees a reaction on “bananas”. What does that mean? Don’t know, don’t care. There is a reaction. If you the counselor asks questions about bananas, you will get more reactions. There is “something there.” I am not talking theory here, just what I have personally observed. What reacts once reacts again. You keep asking about bananas, the meter will start to go up (equated to higher resistance, no idea what this means physiologically). It will go up, go down more reactions. Finally it will come back down, the person being counseled will usually smile and seem happy about it, and the meter will show a reaction that is kind of a no-reaction reaction as in it is simply floating around. That is when you stop asking about bananas . . .

          Isn’t it interesting how just a person begins to smile and show the signs of coming out of a pleasant trance experience where they imagined flying a banana shaped UFO in an epic, two century space battle against the Marcabian Psyches, the “counsellor” immediately “routes” the “client” to the the reg to pay for more courses. The only acceptable EP in Scientology the punter paying for more Scientology. That’s “what it means”.

          • Techie

            True, Vistaril, if you really cared about your client you would do something that could actually help, not just make him feel better. The other sad thing about it is you can prove absolutely anything about anything if you believe in the meter. Make up some wild statement like “bananas cause cancer!.” See if it reads on the meter (of course it does, it’s bat-shit crazy). Follow up with questions about how the guy was a banana and got cancer in the Marcabian Confederacy with the psyches standing over him with a ray-gun. Wow, now we know more about banana cancer! and the dupe thinks it must be all true because of that mad rush of endorphins at the end. And you can come out with the Banana Cancer Rundown. And sell it for $10,000. Because it’s all true! proved beyond the slightest scintilla of doubt by the super scientific all-knowing MK 2000 e-meter! I am sure this is how some of the most outrageous woo in history was invented by Hubbard.

  • RMycroft

    They first started selling the e-meters for $98.50, which was good money in 1952.

    Remember Venus? December 22, 1952, TIME Magazine

    Whenever the subject starts to babble about the terrible conditions on Venus or the moon, the scientologist knows that he is on the beam. More mundanely, if the subject gets up to date enough to remember his own conception of the first cellular subdivision of his body matter, it may, Hubbard says, cure his cancer.

    Scientology clubs are springing up. and their members are all prattling about ded (deserved action) and dedex (ded exposed), genetic entity and prenatal visio, and a lot more adastraperasperal words. Needed for a club’s start: a collection of Hubbard’s books ($2 to $5) and an E-meter ($98.50 at Hubbard’s Phoenix headquarters).

    • Eclipse-girl

      I am ever so grateful that my scientifically educated parents (dad was a sci fi fan – we had years worth of Astounding, and then analog) never fell for this clap – trap.

      • Gerard Plourde

        If your dad was literate in science in addition to being a fan of sic-fi, he was probably inoculated against Hubbard’s nonsense. Good science fiction is speculative in nature and relies on an extrapolation of real scientific concepts. Hubbard’s science fiction, on the other hand, brings in concepts that are scientifically impossible. His story, “The Planet Makers” (viewable on the cult’s Author Services’ Golden Age Stories YouTube channel) though mildly entertaining is a prime example.

      • Gerard Plourde

        If your dad was literate in science in addition to being a fan of sic-fi, he was probably inoculated against Hubbard’s nonsense. Good science fiction is speculative in nature and relies on an extrapolation of real scientific concepts. Hubbard’s science fiction, on the other hand, brings in concepts that are scientifically impossible. His story, “The Planet Makers” (viewable on the cult’s Author Services’ Golden Age Stories YouTube channel) though mildly entertaining is a prime example.

        • RMycroft

          Unfortunately, a lot of Hubbard’s early Dianetics fans were Science-Fiction fans who were pulled in by the run-up and publication in John W. Campbell’s Astounding Science Fiction. (The Aberree is classic fanzine on the times.)

          • Eclipse-girl

            That is why I am surprised they didn’t dabble.
            But in 1951 Dad was recalled to the service for the Korean war. In 1952, my oldest brother was born. They had their lifes to worry about.

            • http://frankdisalleisadummy.wordpress.com/ Get Chutney Love

              Here’s Alfred Besters’ observation of when he met Campbell in his enthusiasm for lrh:

              Well, what happened was–this is my second collection called Star Light, Star Bright.
              I wrote a story called “Oddy and Id” and back then I was deeply into
              using psychiatry in my stories–Freud and Jung–as motivations for
              characters, and stuff like that. And this story had a Freudian
              background. I mailed it to Campbell and about two weeks later he called
              and said he liked the story, wanted to buy it, but would I make some
              changes in it. Would I also come out to Astounding, which was
              located somewhere out in the boondocks of New Jersey. I was delighted,
              never having met the man before. I idolized Campbell. I had this
              tremendous mental picture of him. But I said that sure I’d come. So I
              hopped on the train and went wherever the hell and gone out there in New
              Jersey, and I come to this building which was this really sleazy
              looking printing plant. So I go up to the offices of Astounding Science Fiction,
              right? Well, John’s office was about the size of this little alcove
              right here, and there was enough room for Campbell’s desk and chair, and
              a chair for one visitor, and that’s all the room there was.

              And I came in and shook hands with him, and I’m fairly big but he was
              enormous; he towered over me. He was about the size of a defensive
              tackle. Anyway, we sit down (and I’ve got a great sense of humor, and
              that’s why I could never get along with him). I had the same trouble
              with Arthur Clarke. I said something once about never being able to get
              along with Arthur Clarke because he didn’t have a sense of humor. And
              Arthur wrote me this bitter, wounding letter, and the gist of it said, “I have so got a sense of humor.” But he had included clippings from his reviews that he said proved he had a sense of humor.

              Anyway, Campbell said to me out of the clear blue sky, “Of course you
              don’t know it, you have no way of knowing it yet, but
              psychiatry–psychiatry as we know it–is dead.”

              And I said, “Oh, Mr. Campbell, surely you’re joking.”

              And he said, “Psychiatry as we know it is finished.”

              And I said, “If you mean the various Freudian schools and the quarreling that’s going on between them…”

              He looked at me and said, “No, what I mean is that psychiatry is finished. L. Ron Hubbard has ended psychiatry.”

              I said, “Really?”

              “Ron is going to win the Nobel Peace Prize.”

              And I said, “Wait a minute. I’m sorry, Mr. Campbell, but you’ve lost
              me. You have to understand that I’m out of Madison Avenue. Outside of
              the normal networks I don’t know what the hell’s going on.” And I thought, Or in this tacky little office, in this tacky little room, and this guy is full of it.

              He said to me, “Would anybody who ended war with the Peace Prize?”

              I said, “Sure.”

              “L. Ron Hubbard has ended war.”

              “Wait a minute, you’ve lost me. How?”

              “Dianetics.”

              “Honestly, Mr. Campbell, I don’t know what you’re talking about.”

              And he said, “Here. Read this.”

              “Here and now?”

              “Yes.”

              “Couldn’t I take a set of galleys home with me?”

              “No, no, it’s the only set I’ve got.”

              ………………………………

              But all he wanted was all the Freudian things taken out of the story so
              it wouldn’t get in the way of the new Dianetics. Of course, when “Oddy
              and Id” was reprinted I went back to the original. But that was the one
              session I had with Campbell and it was the last. That guy was a maniac!

              But both of us were arrogant — and I am arrogant, a know-it-all — the only difference between us is that I can laugh at myself, but he couldn’t. That’s
              the big difference. The only thing that saves me is that when I often
              see myself behaving like him I say to myself, “C’mon, kid, who are you kidding! Get off it.”

              http://www.tangentonline.com/images/stories/articles/alfredbester1976-2.jpg

            • Eclipse-girl

              TY. That is a great article.

              I have read and enjoyed Bester. I appreciate the person who can laugh at oneself. I wish more people knew about Bester and was happy when a villian in Babylon 5 was “Alfred Bester.” I

          • Missionary Kid

            Campbell’s editorials were often an exercise in contrarianism, so while they would stimulate thought and discussion, I considered them thought exercises. For Campbell to turn the editorial over to Hubbard would put it into the category of speculation. I didn’t start reading Astounding until about 5 years after Campbell supported Dianetics, but by then he made no mention of it.

          • Once_Born

            The Aberee was initially billed as “the non-serious voice of Scientology” it later expanded to cover other fringe interests. It is refreshingly iconoclastic.

            There is a complete archive here http://www.aberree.com/

            RMycroft – your link reads ‘aberre’ instead of ‘aberee’ and doesn’t work.

          • grundoon

            that link should be aberree.com

        • Eclipse-girl

          Dad was a fan of the Golden Age. But I do not think he cared for Hubbard.
          Dad grew up on Tarzan and E.R. Burroughs.

          He enjoyed Asimov and other authors. We had an early bound edition of the Foundation series.

          Dad was a Chem engineer and Mom was a chemist. Both were skeptics.

          I mourned their deaths. It is Ok to mourn the loss of someone. (getting back on topic)

          • Gerard Plourde

            If he read Asimov, he would have found Hubbard unsatisfying, except possibly as a guilty pleasure (kind of like watching mediocre TV to fill time).

            • Eclipse-girl

              Dad had taste. I wondered if he would have liked Neal Stevenson, Jack Womack, David Brin and others.

            • ze moo

              Everyone likes David Brin.

            • Missionary Kid

              If you read virtually anyone else from the 40s and 50s, IMO, you’d find Hubbard unsatisfying.

            • Gerard Plourde

              That may explain why he decided to start the scam. Maybe fewer editors were reading his butcher-paper submissions.

            • Missionary Kid

              The general quality of science fiction writing postwar was being elevated by writers like Asimov, Clarke, Heinlein, and others whose writing kept getting better. There were also young enfant terribles like Harlan Ellison.

              Scientific knowledge and awareness as well as writing technique had progressed far beyond the pulp writers of the 1930s, with their breathless prose. Hubbard’s prose, always florid, comes through in his writing and speaking about Dianetics and $cientology.

              LRH, I believe, could not keep up with the changes. Of course, it could be argued that he was engrossed in creating Dianetics and $cientology that his writing suffered. His goal all along was to make money, not to become a better writer.

              Lest you think that’s a bad thing, Heinlein said that’s why he wrote as well.

              Unfortunately, while Heinlein was self-reliant, Hubbard always depended on the gullibility of others for his sustenance.

            • Once_Born

              There is an interesting assessment of the best of Hubbard’s pulp writing here by
              L. Sprague de Camp, a contemporary of Hubbard and a better writer.

            • Missionary Kid

              Thanks. Glad to know that I agree with a very respected writer’s opinion of LRH’s writing.

            • Gerard Plourde

              I certainly don’t begrudge writers writing to get money to put food on the table. It’s a shame that when the pulp fiction market got tougher that he didn’t try to get into technical writing or some other niche area. I guess the problem was his ego wouldn’t permit it.

            • Missionary Kid

              He couldn’t get into technical writing, IMO, because his knowledge was a mile wide and millimeters deep. He knew terms, but instead of striving for understanding, he made up his own definitions.

              LRH always was looking for ways to separate people from their money, and, when the fad of Dianetics (which had been quite profitable outside of royalties) followed its natural course and collapsed, he reinvented himself and Dianetics as $cientology, after failures and fleecing of supporters in different incarnations in different locations, like Phoenix and Washington.

              IMO, it wasn’t just ego, but a lack of talent and a basic tendency to want easy money and to have others provide for him. $cientology, the way developed it, is all about giving money to the head of the organization and punishing those who step out of line or oppose it in any way. $cientology is LRH writ large.

            • Gerard Plourde

              I agree that his desire to go for the easy buck combined with an aversion to apply himself to learning anything sufficiently to get more than a cursory (and often erroneous) understanding to prevent his entry into an area of writing that could sustain him and his family and certainly not in the luxurious fashion he imagined he was due. The more sure route to that goal was developing his mind-control cult.

            • Missionary Kid

              Amen.

    • http://frankdisalleisadummy.wordpress.com/ Get Chutney Love

      According to my research, that would be about 700$ USD for last year. Which, even today, is a lot of kale. The books are similarly overpriced, but that’s just a way of separating the marks from their money, an ‘initiation’, if you will.

      • BosonStark

        Paying more helps with their prenatal visio too.

  • nottrue

    Another one of Rons insightful videos

  • Mark

    The potentiometer — pretty much a volume control, like a dimmer switch for a light (which is the “tone arm” on the meter) was shedding carbon dust into the works, because of its primitive construction.

    A volume-control is a mechanical potentiometer, or “pot” for short: usually a ring of graphite, on which a contact is rotated to vary resistance. The cheap ones are notorious for shedding graphite-dust with age and wear, which also messes up the smooth variation in resistance, as anyone with an old radio knows – the volume will suddenly leap up or down, and there’s usually an irritating crackling noise too – that’s the dust being moved about as you twiddle the knob.

    If Hubbard hadn’t been such a cheapskate, there were other more reliable “pots” (using diaphragms or rheostatic wire-windings) available for very little extra expense. Instead, his miserliness caused thousands of victims decades of suffering. What a stingy shit he was!

    All you ever wanted to know about e-meters (and more) at: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/E-Meter/
    And an old Mark V being gutted by Comic Book Guy’s even more sarcastic brother: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHDMEBoOYXo

  • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

    Numbers from Alexa were up after I fell asleep on the couch yesterday, so here they are :-)

    Alexa update for Jan. 31: *refresh for images*

    Tony: US rank #16,063 – down 660 from yesterday.
    Scientology: US rank #42,370 – up 617 from yesterday.

    Difference: 26,307 – 1,277 less than yesterday.

    • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

      Also I thought I would do a monthly Hearsay (Google) Trends report to show their search traffic for Scientology.
      This is January: *refresh for image*

      It’s showing more search traffic for Scientology from Germany than from either US, Canada or GB.

  • 3feetback-of-COS

    They had a meter!… So it HAD to scientific!!

    • Mooser

      And more than that, the needle jumped all over the place! What could be bad? It didn’t hurt, non-invasive, and the needle moved all over, and you found out about all the wonderful, exciting, sometimes terrible and frightening, but always fascinating stuff which makes up that fabulous creature called you! (or me!, or him!, or her!) Electrical intercourse, with a safe sax whaling in the background.

  • 3feetback-of-COS

    Life Continuum — another great example of the Ol’ Storyteller making up stuff out of thin air, and yet stating it with certainty so his minions would just swallow it hook, line and sinker.

    • Eclipse-girl

      another way to tell people that having compassion and empathy were wrong in scientology

      • Espiando

        That’s why I don’t bother using compassion or empathy when dealing with Scilon trolls or with Indies who still spout the bullshit. They just don’t understand when it’s used and blank out the message. A little confrontation to take them back to the days of TR-0 Bullbait opens the gates a little and allows the message to penetrate.

        • Eclipse-girl

          We want the same thing. We use different approaches, that is all.

          I appreciate you for what you do. I just can’t act that way because it is not me.

        • Mooser

          The least compassionate thing one can do to a Scio troll, in my opinion, is to talk to them as if Scientology doesn’t exist. Just one person to another.
          And always, without fail, be polite but firm. If necessary, but only when necessary, be firm but polite.

          And there are two words one should never use when talking to a Scientologist. One is swell, but the other is lousy. If I could spell them, I’d tell you what they are.

  • Eclipse-girl

    This is off topic.

    This has been my personal rabbit hole for the last few days.

    Jo, and Cat Daddy had photos on Ron in uniform

    Cat Daddy’s are the one that follow

    http://www.skepsis.nl/hubbard1943.jpg

    http://www.imagick.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/L-Ron-Hubbard-Navy.jpg

    and I hope the one from Jo loads

    http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/812/5410/original.jpg

    Mooser and I have been very curious about the ribbons, and the possible date of the photos

    I believe the photos were all taken at the same time.

    I used this source for the ribbons
    http://www.officialmilitaryribbons.com/united_states_navy_ribbons_in_precedence.html

    According to unbiased researchers (Miller, Atack, Owen, Wright) Ron earned 4 medals and no battle stars.
    The American Defense Service Medal
    The American Campaign Medal
    The Asiatic Pacific Campaign Medal
    The WWII Victory Medal

    The ribbons associated with these medals are in the 7th and 8th row from the top from the link I posted.

    According to Thomas Moulton who went to sub chaser training school with Ron, and then served as is second in command off the shores of Oregon, he and Ron always wore two battle star on that ribbon (The American Campaign). Moutlton testified to this during one of the Gerry Armstrong cases, in 1984.

    I think Ron is wearing 8 ribbons, a top row of 2 ribbons, a middle row of three ribbons and a bottom row of three ribbons.

    If the date is accurate (and I do not think it is) there would be no WW II victory medal.

    Left and right are when looking at the photographs.

    Top row, left
    This appears to have a battle star. The ribbon itself is covered by the lapel and hard to see. I can not see a vertical strip on the ribbon, at all. Perhaps it is the American Defense Service ribbon, but there should be a noticeable while vertical stripe, in my opinion. Why is there a battle star?

    Top row, right
    This ribbon also appears to have one battle star.
    Because of the white vertical strips and the light color color of the ribbon, I think that may be the Asiatic Pacific Campaign ribbon, and the battle star is obscuring the center (middle) vertical strips.

    Middle row, left
    This is a guess on my part. There are visible vertical white stripes.
    The only ribbon that comes close to matching it, in my opinion, is the Eastern African Middle Eastern Campaign Ribbon. I am not happy with that choice, but it is my best guess.
    If I am correct, this is clearly a fraudulent ribbon.

    Middle row, middle
    This ribbon is obscured by two battle stars. The ribbon is light in color, and I can not distinguish the vertical stripes.
    Perhaps it is the American Campaign ribbon, but I would like to see some evidence of dark vertical stripes.
    That is what I think the ribbon is because of Moulton’s testimony.

    Middle row, right
    I have no idea what this ribbon was. it is not in the Naval ribbon link, in my opinion.
    I am wondering if this is a stolen foreign service medal

    Bottom row, Left, middle, and right.
    I can distinguish some vertical strips in one of the photos
    I believe Ron is wearing them as ribbons.
    I have no idea what they are

    If someone has done this work previously (and I suspect that someone might have done it) could you please provide me a link?

    This dates the photo to before the end of the war, but after the time on USS Algol where Ron would have earned the Asiatic Pacific campaign, but no battle stars. Ron left the USS Algol in Sept 1944.

    • Mooser

      “Mooser and I have been very curious…”

      But you did all the work, and thank you! I’m not sure ‘curiosity’ is what I’ve got. I’m getting to the point that I assume something from Scientology is fraudulent in some, if not many, ways.

      • Eclipse-girl

        As stated previously, I am the daughter of a WW II army vet, and the granddaughter of a WW I infantry vet.

        This becomes personal. I am grateful to all vets for their sacrifice.

        I am more than a bit peeved about people who need to lie about their service.
        I am very POed when someone wears medals they didn’t earn.
        I am gobsmacked that Ronny was falsiflying his military career with fake ribbons during the war.

        • ze moo

          Had he been caught with those ribbons, he would have done jail time and been given a BCD {bad conduct discharge}. Active military takes a very dim view of ‘stolen valor’. You may get away with it in civilian life, but not in the military.

          • grundoon

            With Hirohito and Hitler pressing in from both sides, the Navy was too busy to sweat the small stuff, like a junior lieutenant trying out the ship’s cannon against Mexico. Hubbard would likely have been court-martialed and strung up high for more than one of his escapades had he done them in peacetime.

        • Godinthewine

          So, someone who terrorized a village full of little brown people or dropped an atomic bomb killing 100 thousand+ Japanese civilians earned their medals? How peeved, PO’d and gobsmacked are you over those who earned medals by killing our brothers and sisters because they were so called strangers? If only we were a planet of fake soldiers with fake medal. We are not.

          P.S Scientology S*CKS balls and LOL@ Hubbard and the dummies who bow down to his b*llsh*t.

          • Eclipse-girl

            This was not a discussion about the validity of the use of atomic weapons in war.

            There are many historian who believe the loss of life would have been far greater if the US had to invade the Japanese islands.

            • Godinthewine

              You brought up medals. Said historians only say that because the atomic bombs were not dropped on the United States. If they were, said beliefs would not be considered.

            • Robert Eckert

              We don’t need your politics here.

            • Mooser

              “We don’t need your politics here.”

              I’m just trying to get back to Nagasaki, where the fellas chew tabaccy, and women wicki-wacky woo!

            • Mooser
            • Mooser

              If an atomic bomb had been dropped on the United States near the end of WW2, the Air Force would have been in a lot of trouble. Those guys are supposed to know how to navigate, at least tell the diff between Japan and US.

            • Mooser

              Could a pilot mix up the “Land of the Rising Sun” with a “Canadian Sunset”?

            • Espiando

              Canadian sunset, no. Tequila Sunrise, yes.

            • Espiando

              Oh, will you shut the fuck up? Although I have to admit that this is an interesting tactic for an OSA sock to take.

              Hubtard’s faked military record is still a real sore point with you that has to be covered up at all costs, huh? Nice to know that this is still something that pushes your buttons, OSA.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Espy don’t toy with the mouse. He just eats it and craps it out…

            • Espiando

              Apparently, our OSA sock has me set on Downvote On Sight, so toying with him is the appropriate response. Then he’ll get to know what it feels like when a mouse gets swallowed whole by an anaconda.

          • Mooser

            Thank you Godinthewhine, those cunningly places asterisks make all the difference!

          • Mooser

            “So, someone who terrorized a village full of little brown people”

            And just when those nice Japanese Imperial Army soldiers were trying to bind all of their Asiatic brethren, and a lot of China, into the “Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere”
            Which they did, I might add, with no violence whatso ever. Mostly by bowing, and giving away transistor radios. And then those awful Americans and British came and ruined it all!

            • Eclipse-girl

              IIRC, both China and Korea were invaded by the Japanese. Both countries still have their issues with

            • Robert Eckert

              We don’t need to be going over this history for the sake of a brand-new private account with two posts designed to stir up distraction.

            • joan nieman

              I agree with you completely Robert.

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            You have wandered into the wrong discussion board.

            • Mooser

              “You have wandered….”

              Wandered? He navigated straight here and dropped the big one!

            • Captain Howdy

              More like crawled..

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            Just when I thought it was safe to get back in the water…..
            And then I read this SHITE!
            Since I have been on hiatus…..I will try to be nice….

            Oh, no, nevermind (who am I kidding)……….I don’t like your syntax (little brown people?…hmmmm).

            SO, Fuck off.

            • Robert Eckert

              Glad to see you’re feeling well!

        • Mooser

          Has the photo been authenticated? Is that indeed LRon Hubbard, and not a guy who looked somewhat like him, taken later?

          • Eclipse-girl

            authenticated? probably not.
            I think it was Ron. The smirk / sneer has the same curl to his lips.

            • Mooser

              “The smirk / sneer has the same curl to his lips.”

              Hard to mistake that! That’s out Ron.

            • Eclipse-girl

              I do not think Ron was wearing a WW II victory ribbon.

              My guess at the possible dates for the photo would be from Oct 1944 – Sept 1945.
              He studied in NJ for some of that time, visited Philadelphia, and then was on the west coast by Jan 1945. I think he remained on the west coast til the war ended.

            • Cat Daddy
            • Shirley Eugeste

              A face that only a … yes indeed, but do we know whether or not she (or anyone else) ever actually did? Is our Ron, in all his glory and all his complexity (sarcastic tip of the hat to Mr. Cruise), more the product of nature or nurture? Wouldn’t excuse anything, but might help explain how he got started down his own personal road to nowhere. That is, maybe li’l Ronny learned the art of ham-fisted self-aggrandizement as the child of parents who just couldn’t be bothered? Or was he just born a schmuck?

            • Robert Eckert

              LRH’s parents helped Polly raise Nibs and Kay after LRH’s desertion, which is why they came in for little mention during the Scientology period.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Yep… I got the impression that dear LRonny was very spoilt as a child. He was likely raised being told he could do whatever he wanted, and how smart he was… and little LRonny took it to heart and the smug bastard did just that… getting away with most of it.
              I feel particularly irked by parents who overindulge their kids with praise they did not earn… it sickens me. I’m just more ‘honest and straightforward’ by nature and find it difficult to smother my kids in false praise and adulation. I feel bad for it sometimes (because I have had a few friends who overindulge and I see the look on my kids face when they think about what they see), but in the long run at least my kids know that if they’ve impressed me they’ve genuinely done well.

        • 1subgenius

          When you said “Ron” I thought you meant Reagan for a second:

          “In November 1983, he told Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir during a White House visit that while serving in the U. S. Army film corps, his unit had shot footage of the Nazi concentration camps as they were liberated. He repeated the same tale to Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal and other witnesses. Reagan had indeed served in the Army and worked on morale-boosting movies for the War Department. But he had done so without ever leaving Hollywood for the entire duration of the war.”
          http://www.salon.com/2010/05/20/bushreagan/

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            If he said his unit had shot footage, he was correct, as they did. If he said he was there, then he was lying. He would have dealt with the raw film footage as well, which would have created a vivid impression. Certainly not the same as being there, of course.

            • 1subgenius

              Certainly a valid clarification.

              Still…..

              Did he intend to mislead, or was it just the early dementia? We’ll never know.

              But neither gives me any reason to be cheerful.

              Unlike Ian Dury. (Thanks to you I discovered this particular video)

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIMNXogXnvE

          • Eclipse-girl

            That doesn’t surprise me. I was never in favor of how Ron Reagan changed this country, or the idolatry of him that still seems to exist.

            There was a link from a month or two ago that had to deal with Scientology and TX, and some campaign worker who I think has died. Ron Paul has connections with scientology.

          • Captain Howdy

            60 Minutes did a story where they matched anecdotes that Regan had told in his speeches to scenes from movies he had made.

            • 1subgenius

              I have an audio file of about 100 or more GW “Bushisms”, too. But don’t let’s start.
              Still RR had one of the funniest quotes (attributed to him:
              When he was denied membership at a country club because they didn’t admit actors, he said, “I’m no actor, and I have 30 films to prove it.”
              Still…..apart from the fact that he was stupid and a traitor, some people worship him.
              They need their idols too.

        • Shirley Eugeste

          He was not only shameless, but persistently and increasingly shameless. I get the impression that rather than learning the benefits of honesty, he was learning that the thicker he piles it on, the more inclined people will be to assume he couldn’t possibly be making it all up. This has been in my head for the past couple of days:

          “By assuming unauthorized authority and attempting to perform duties for which he has no qualifications, he became the source of much trouble… This officer is not satisfactory for independent duty assignment. He is garrulous and tries to give impressions of his importance. He also seems to think he has unusual ability in most lines…”

          (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_career_of_L._Ron_Hubbard)

    • RMycroft

      Back in the day, Fletcher Prouty was spinning all kinds of conspiracy theories about why CoS’s forged document and his real record didn’t match. (Eventually it was too much even for him. CoS bought his last book and destroyed it.)

      “Something most important that Miller chose to overlook is the fact that Hubbard had been awarded a ‘unit citation.’ This award is most important and special.” Unit citations are made only by the President of the United States to those combat units performing particularly meritorious services.

      Too bad for his theory that the “unit citation” only exists on the Scientology forgery.

      Poor research behind book on Scientology February 4, 1988, Toronto Star

      • Eclipse-girl

        Isn’t Pouty the guy who claimed that Hubbard was involved in espionage?

        • RMycroft

          Yah. He was convinced that a trivial listing for naval intelligence in his real record must have meant that Hubbard must have been a Sooper Secret Agent. I bet the guys who fetched the coffee for real analysts had more impressive entries.

          • Eclipse-girl

            As we know, most people in intelligence were just dealing with reports.

            • RMycroft

              Exactly. Between the people in the field and the analysts trying to put the pieces together, there were a legion of paper-shufflers and form-fillers. Hubbard’s naval int listing might have been for one of the courses that his CO gladly dispatched him to. (I don’t feel like digging in that dung heap today.)

          • Espiando

            Ooooh, don’t say that, or that crazy bitch Margaret will come over and drag out her eleventy-trillion pieces of records about Hubtard’s intel career, carefully weaved together with speculation, poor inference, and outright bullshit.

            On second thought, do say that. We had a pretty shitty snowstorm last night, and I’m not leaving my bed unless it’s to piss. An argument with Crazy Cat Lady will help pass the time.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Funny how they will take one tiny scrap and puff it up into an entire theory, yet when shown the mass of evidence that proves the contrary, they simply dismiss it.

            • Captain Howdy

              If we could get Margaret to come over here, it would be a hootenanny.

            • Eclipse-girl

              She uses the second photo from above on her website.

            • Captain Howdy

              Link?

            • Eclipse-girl
            • Captain Howdy

              Thanks. I thought “Bernie” ran “Scientology Myths”? Or is that something else?

            • Eclipse-girl

              I only know it as a front for scientology. Margaret is in league with them

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          Julia Child was involved in espionage during the war.

          • Shirley Eugeste

            Great point. Great people who make great contributions to society don’t have to make great big asses* of themselves trying to establish their creds. Actually involved in actual espionage stuff during the actual war, and went on to actually help lots of actual people, winning admiration and real-not-made-up awards in the process… Suck it, Hubbard.

            *Julia Child did, evidently, have a “sweetly rounded bottom,” according to this birthday sonnet her husband Paul wrote in 1961:

            O Julia, Julia, cook and nifty wench,
            Whose unsurpassed quenelles and hot souffles,
            Whose English, Norse and German, and whose French,
            Are all beyond my piteous powers to praise —
            Whose sweetly rounded bottom and whose legs,
            Whose gracious face, whose nature temperate,
            Are only equalled by her scrambled eggs:
            Accept from me, your ever-loving mate,
            This acclamation shaped in fourteen lines
            Whose inner truth belies its outer sight;
            For never were there foods, nor were there wines
            Whose flavor equals yours for sheer delight.
            O luscious dish! O gustatory pleasure!
            You satisfy my taste buds beyond measure.

            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_Child

            http://www.nytimes.com/1997/10/08/dining/light-s-still-on-julia-child-as-her-soul-mate-wanted.html

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              A lovely sonnet on a lovely subject.

    • Mark

      Excellent research. I don’t think anyone’s done it in this much detail before.

      • Eclipse-girl

        THDNE implied someone had done the research. I would be surprised if I really was the first.

        • Mark

          There’s plenty of stuff about his war record – much of it refuting mad Margaret’s Prouty-inspired twaddle and the direct Co$ lies – but precious little about the medals themselves apart from this: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Cowen/warhero/medals.htm

          • Eclipse-girl

            I did use Chris Owen’s work.
            According to the site I used for ribbons, there was no ribbon associated with earning a marksmanship medal or commendation.

            • Cat Daddy
            • Eclipse-girl

              Do you know if there is a site that states what each of the stolen / fradulent medals was?

            • Once_Born

              ‘Chapter’ 3.10 of “Ron the War Hero”, which is here:
              http://www.spaink.net/cos/warhero/medals.htm

              According to this online document:

              Hubbard’s service record shows he was entitled to 9 decorations. Hubbard claimed he was entitled to 27 and staff were ordered to peruse a claim for the remaining 18. They were unsuccessful.

              The CofS has subsequently claimed he received as many as 29 medials, and circulated a forged naval ‘notice of separation’ form to support this.

              All of decorations involved are described in detail in the text.

              http://scicrit.wordpress.com/2014/01/17/ron-the-war-hero/

            • Eclipse-girl

              Once Born,
              I have read Chris Owen.
              I am a tad confused about 9 decorations. He was awarded 4 medals / ribbons.
              I do not see any battle stars on any of the awards that Mr Owen lists.
              There is some discrepancy about the marksmanship awards. Given Ron’s poor eyesight, I rather doubt that he earned them. According to some at OCMB, the ribbons that appear on in the photos were not given until 1969.
              (My father earned the rifle award in the army, but admitted that he was crappy when it came to the pistol. )

            • Once_Born

              Sorry, that was a typo… you are dead right – it says four in the text. I have corrected my previous comment.

            • Shirley Eugeste

              What if anything is known about the play-ribbons and pseudo military froufrou on DM’s play-uniform? Does the Sea Org even bother connecting the ribbons to real events (even in their own version of reality) or do they have a strict don’t-ask-don’t-tell policy on that shit?

            • Cat Daddy

              Those are about Scientology events and dates according to Mike Rinder

              http://otviiisgrrr8.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/captain-david-miscavige.jpg

            • Shirley Eugeste

              Thanks. Too bad the Sea Org hasn’t quite caught up to the Girl Scouts yet:

              http://www.girlscouts.org/program/basics/for_volunteers/insignia/

            • joan nieman

              Oh Davey! You little freak of nature. You mislead fool!

            • Once_Born

              You may have discovered the reason for the poor health of Sea Org members… medal fatigue!

              Personally, whenever I see those huge lanyards, I alternate between amusement and embarrassment (for them).

    • Cat Daddy

      I made a post on ESMB in this thread

      http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?21960-Ron-The-War-Hero&p=899599&viewfull=1#post899599

      Ooops – sorry Maxwell, forgot this one. Thanks for the reminder. This is
      the vessel USS YP-422 – AKA “The Mist” – originally a trawler but
      converted to a patrol boat for the Navy. L Ron Hubbard’s command of this
      vessel lasted for a total of three weeks. He was relieved of duty on 1
      October 1942. A despatch sent by the Commandant of the Boston Navy Yard
      at the time described Hubbard as “not temperamentally fitted for
      independent command”

      http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/24/Yp422_large.jpg

      • Cat Daddy

        “And this is the submarine chaser PC815 that L Ron Hubbard actually
        commanded. He lasted for less than three months before being relieved of
        duty for general incompetence.”

        http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Cowen/warhero/images/pc815_b_large.jpg

        • Shirley Eugeste

          Relieved of duty… yes but Wikipedia (so, yeah, I know, but it’s all I have) says this about his days on the PC-815, keeping the Pacific Northwest safe from the threat of phantom Japanese subs: “Hubbard’s crew however, who were very loyal to him, shared his conviction that they had engaged an enemy submarine.”

          Why did he seem to piss off superior officers, yet — according to this — seem to be able to make an overall positive impression on men under him? (If we believe this.)

          en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_career_of_L._Ron_Hubbard#cite_ref-Atack7779_41-1

          • Cat Daddy

            lol

        • joan nieman

          Awesome Cat! Thanks for that photo. I appreciate all your input in the Bunker.

      • Eclipse-girl

        Wasn’t this the time when Hubbard tried to say he was captain of a corsair?

        • Cat Daddy
          • Eclipse-girl

            It is on my reading list (Bent Corydon – Madman or Messiah).

            I think it is in Chris Owen’s work.

            • Cat Daddy

              Sorry to lack precission on this one. I can’t fit it all in my head

            • Eclipse-girl

              Don’t worry about it.

    • Captain Howdy

      A job well done, EG.

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    Why stop with the Emeter alone? At least one collector has every possible version, but hasn’t considered the possibilities that are out there to achieve results that are every bit as scientologyific.

    Here’s a suggestion that will both expand and fix his collection…

    (refresh)

    • Eclipse-girl

      I like this.

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        I want this!

    • Captain Howdy

      Grrrreat!

    • Sherbet

      “scientologyific” — Terrific word, Dougie DD.

    • Mark

      Could you include this, Doug? (refresh):

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        Wish I’d seen it in the first place! A truly scientificy artifact!

        (refresh)

        • Mark

          Thanks, Doug! I think I’ve still got my ‘Magic Robot’ somewhere in the attic. He didn’t always give the right answer either – if you were feeling particularly mischievous, another strong magnet hidden underneath the little mirror where you put him to answer the quiz-questions could cause endless confusion on rainy afternoons…

        • DMSTCC

          Is there room for this?

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            This one is reserved for the executives at Gold, I believe.

    • grundoon

      don’t forget the Tonometer

  • ze moo

    So families have similar ways of doing things and resemble each other because of Hubbtards woo woo explanation. The old adage, ‘the fruit doesn’t fall far from the tree’, is just as scientific as Hubbtards.

    The emeter has always confused me, what does it really do? It can measure galvanic skin response, but the method of attaching it to a person renders it useless for this. When you get a lie detector test, they attach the galvanic lead to a finger with a Velcro strap that does not vary in how tight it is attached. Holding the cans is perhaps a sign of ‘valence’, but one that anyone can circumvent with practice. Yeah, a well trained auditor can fix that. They can fix anything.

    The emeter is a prop to get the auditor to repeat questions or commands until you get in a hypnotic state. It is a bad prop with bad parts that allow the auditor to do whatever they want. Behind in your IAS contributions? You just generated a ‘rockslam’. Not worshiping Dave Miscavige enough? You have a withhold. With such poorly functioning parts and by changing the definition of ‘floating needle’, the auditor can do anything

    The emeter is slightly more sciencey then the image below, but it is just as useful.

  • Mark

    Meanwhile, on Target Two – or more likely in one of the lower and more unpleasant circles of hell (refresh):

  • MaxSpaceman

    The Garcia lawsuit against the chirch will be upcoming this year with some action. Posting some of Mr Garcia’s letter — as Debbie Cook had, Garcia wrote a letter and sent it to some 2,600+ people’s e-mail.

    It’s too lulz, his ending to Miscavige. Check it out:

    “These stats are very interesting. After reading a 20-page letter outlining a plethora of outpoints the biggest concern of 17 people is “How did you get my email?” Can you spell f-e-a-r? Altered importance, perhaps?

    “What is blatantly obvious above is what is missing: 2,423 did not reply at all. SILENCE. I wouldn’t want to speculate on what this means. You can draw your own conclusions.

    “But I do remember a time when I received an “entheta” email. I stayed silent, took action, and I started to look.

    “I doubt Miscavige received my letter, as his staff would probably not forward anything that might slightly enturbulate the dear leader.

    “For a few days now, this letter has been distributed far and wide and read by plenty a Scientologist, and replies continue to come in.

    “So davey: if you are reading this, and I’m pretty sure you are, you are officially the last person to read my letter addressed to you. Now, when staff and public give you that funny look, you may wonder: “Is this one of the thousands who received that letter? Does he agree with it? Is he disaffected with me? Maybe he needs more sec-checking. Or a good solid RPF for 8 years…”

    “And this concludes my declaration of Independence. And in classic miscavige-style I would like to say: “It was an enthralling and formidable, magnificent but yet incredible, unequivocal and uncompromising, and most exhilarating and effective way of delivering a blow to the enemy.”

    “Love you all.

    “Luis Garcia”

  • RMycroft

    If Russell Miller’s publisher of the new version of Bare-Faced Messiah wants blurbs for the inside cover, this might be good:

    “Like reading a life of Christ by Judas Iscariot!”, Cathia Riley, Director of Special Affairs, Church of Scientology Canada.

    Injunction sought to block book critical of Scientology founder December 1, 1987, Paul Bilodeau, Toronto Star

    • Mooser

      “Like reading a life of Christ by Judas Iscariot!”,

      Absurd comparison. The author of Barefaced Messiah was never an apostle of Ron’s in the first place.

      • BosonStark

        It shows the same lack of logic that leads them to embrace the contradictory BS Ron spewed — they want it to be true, and they’ve learned to have “certainty” that they have all the answers.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      That is a GREAT blurb! Makes me want to read it again.

      • RMycroft

        I know! Especially since my copy is one of the Key Porter ones they tried to block.

        • Eclipse-girl

          I am jealous.
          There was a link that had the differences between the UK and American version.
          I thought was all in the material the prefaced each chapter.

          • Once_Born

            Eclipse-girl…

            You second post regarding
            Ron’s possibly phoney medal ribbons has been flagged too, so you are
            likely on to something here. I tried to reply but, of course, can’t
            until it is moderated. I am therefore posting my reply here:

            If anyone has looked into this before, I can’t find any evidence of it.

            What
            you need is higher-resolution images. If a (non-Scientology) scholarly
            archive holds copies, they might be persuaded to provide high-resolution
            scans to original researchers.

            Books which include these pictures should reference their source, and give you a lead – or you could (possibly) ask Jon Atack…

            • Eclipse-girl

              TY. I noticed that too.
              I have posted a third version after spending a greater part of evening on OCMB (TY Cat Daddy)

  • http://www.tumblr.com/blog/scientoonery Natalia M

    . . .

  • Walter Mitty
  • domitare

    If you want to see how stupid these cult vultures get when they hear the word “money,” you may want to visit Rinder’s blog for today’s post.

    • theinnerring
      • Priscilla

        Finally, a CO$ intervention, being subjected to scientific study. It will be interesting to see the results.

      • Mark

        I wonder how long it’ll take the eggheads to pronounce the Putrid sorry Purif a load of cobblers?

      • kemist

        I’ll be damned. Someone is actually stupid enough to fund this crap.

        I predict one of two possible outcomes :

        – study stopped because of adverse events (vitamin megadoses + hours in a sauna ? What could possibly go wrong ?)

        – inconclusive

        Either way, that won’t stop the Kool Aid drinkers from promoting it.

        Well, it’s your tax money, ‘merikans.

        • D.Y.G.

          I’m having a hard time buying it – the second email “correcting” the first email a day later, that its not to be called the “purif” and it isn’t actually funded by the Army but the DOD through three unnamed universities.

          • D.Y.G.

            Wny would the DoD sponsor studies for veterans and not the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs?

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              I’m guessing The VA had a grant check to run the study, but it got lost somewhere …

            • D.Y.G.

              OMG I just clicked the link above and I’m shocked to find its real. They’re really going to put vets with Gulf War Syndrome in a sauna for 4 hours a day.

          • kemist

            If you go on the US clinical trials site, you can actually see that there is such a study, and that it is active.

            Registered in 2012, updated in jan 2014.

            Mmmmm….

            I wonder if they are having recruitment problems.

            • D.Y.G.

              I just clicked the link. I have a sad now.

              ETA: Psychiatric conditions excluded. They probably can’t find 50 who meet the criteria.

            • kemist

              It hasn’t accrued a single case within nearly 2 years.

              I’m suspecting a scheme I have seen another money-grubbing quack use (for over 35 MFing years !!!) to fleece unsuspecting victims, most of them parents of children with brain cancer.

            • D.Y.G.

              I’m looking up info on the MD/lead investigator. He’s Harvard educated, works in environmental health, and has more than 350 peer-reviewed studies, so initially he looks legit. But then I came up with this–

              Declaration of Dr. David O. Carpenter, M.D.I, Dr. David O. Carpenter, M.D., under penalty of perjury pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 1746,hereby make the following declaration in support of a preliminary and permanent injunction enjoining Portland Public Schools’ use of WI-FI

              (snip)

              Based on existing science, many public health experts believe, myself included,
              that it is possible we will face an epidemic of cancers in the future resulting from uncontrolled use of cell phones and increased population exposure to WI-FI and other wireless devices.

              http://www.thermoguy.com/pdfs/%5B5%5D%20DECLARATION_OF_DR._DAVID_O._CARPENTER%20_M.D.%20Final%20Draft.pdf

              So he kind of sounds like a nut.

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              I was going to say he sounds legit, and mention the possibility that he could be trying to debunk this purif nonsense… but he included “Innovative” in the title of the study. That’s a bit sketchy.

            • kemist

              He might be just a garden variety crank.

              The thing I’m worried about is if he is a scilon, or a scilon plant.

              Having a clinical trial gives what you do legitimity in the public eye, and when this same public is uneducated about how legit clinical trials work, this can be used to extort money from people who think they’re paying for a serious, effective treatment. Furthermore, given the nature of the CoS, it could be used as a recruitment device.

            • D.Y.G.

              He seems to be a garden variety crank. What else can he be if he’s an MD and thinks overdosing on Niacin is ok? I don’t see any direct connection to Scientology, not yet anyway.

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              This might be too insignificant a detail to read into, but wouldn’t believing in ADHD rule him out as a Scientologist?

              Research Interests:
              • Exposure to persistent organic pollutants and risk of diabetes, cardiovascular disease, and hypertension.
              • Cognitive and behavioral effects of environmental contaminants on children (IQ, ADHD) and older adults (dementias, Parkinson’s Disease and ALS).
              • Ionizing and non-ionizing radiation biology

            • D.Y.G.

              Good find! The link to the study also mentions psychiatric conditions that exclude potential subjects, including hospitalization for depression, alcohol and drug dependence. Those are Scientology’s prime candidates!

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              Lol. The bit I pasted is from the second link theinnering posted, btw. His find, not mine.

            • kemist

              There is a David Carpenter in the scientology completions list. Only two courses listed in 1999.

              Might not be the same guy though.

            • Free Minds, Free Hearts

              DYG there are lots of folks who think that who aren’t wacko, he seems like an environmental type all in all. But… the study is definitely wacko.

            • kemist

              The thing that makes those claims highly suspect to me is this : the cell-phone / brain cancer scare made a whole freaking lot of money for cell phone manufacturers based on very poor quality studies.

              It was a veritable boom for the industry, both in legitimate engineering solutions for the perceived problem (lower power emitters) and in quack devices.

              It’s not as if such scaremongering studies were never used to attempt promotion of certain products – just look at the scientific fraud that started the whole vaccine / autism manufactured controversy. Nothing works better than fear to sell products.

            • Free Minds, Free Hearts

              It isn’t clear why they took so long to start recruiting.

      • 3feetback-of-COS

        When they conclude it is a load of crap, the Scilons will claim that it was done wrong, not “standardly.”

      • kemist

        Question for anyone who knows where to look are either of these two people by any chance Scilons ?

        David O Carpenter MD

        Crystal Grant PhD

      • Once_Born

        “[..] all components of this project except the initial Physician evaluation
        and blood sample acquisition can be done at the Center, not just the
        detoxification”.

        Since ‘the Center’ is a Scientology-run facility I think peers might be sceptical about the initial date – in other words, garbage in – garbage out.

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        Threads on this on WWP. https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/us-dod-funding-of-scientology-detox-programs-and-gulf-war-veterans.91926/

        Excerpt from a 2007 Philadelphia Inquirer story saying that the $cilons seemed to be effective at the World Trade Center, said Carpenter was an MD they interviewed. Seems like he is not a $cilon but seemed to think the detox worked – people felt better afterward – and wanted to know if it was just psychological, so he applied for funding to study it. The clinic was run by FASE, a $cilon front group, Foundation for Advancements in Science and Education.

        Article is – http://web.archive.org/web/20071024144711/http:/www.philly.com/inquirer/health_science/daily/20071007_Clinics_results_make_9_11_responders_believe.html

        … one of the experts FASE approached is David Carpenter, a research physician whose professional focus is the effect of environmental contamination on human health.

        After FASE contacted him, he twice applied for grants from the National Institutes of Health to evaluate the detox regimen, but was turned down both times. He is committed to trying again.

        A professor of environmental health and toxicology, Carpenter is director of the Institute for Health and the Environment at the State University of New York at Albany.

        “I’m convinced the program has beneficial effects,” he says. “The question from my perspective is: Are they mainly psychological, or is it really ridding the body of nasty chemicals?”

        Medical science has yet to discover a way of removing contaminants from the body, especially fat-soluble contaminants stored in fatty tissue, Carpenter says.

        “But before we get too excited, it must be demonstrated that it clearly does work through an objective, totally independent, rigorous analysis.”

        • RMycroft

          That Philadelphia Inquirer story was one of six that Art Carey wrote. Five on one day, and this one two days later. Describing them as uncritical would be charitable. (They also vanished off the site rather fast, but not before Wayback and I grabbed copies.)

          • Gerard Plourde

            Art Carey was the paper’s health and fitness columnist. His column was printed in the same section that carried Ann Landers, the horoscope and the comics. I think most people realized that he wasn’t writing hard news and took his articles with a grain of salt.

            • RMycroft

              If that were true, then most people would also laugh off what Dr Oz promotes.

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        The description of the study and recruitment poster is at http://www.albany.edu/ihe/gulf.htm – and mentions LRH but DOES NOT MENTION SCIENTOLOGY. The co-investigator is Kathleen Kerr (Canada Narconon).

        Also http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/record/NCT01672710 says “[ Designated as safety issue: No ]” – to me that means they are saying there are there are no health risks.

        This all looks like fraud to me.

        The study is now recruiting and will take place at Severna Park Health and Wellness Center LLC in Maryland, which is a $cilon facility. http://www.ocala.com/article/20100131/ARTICLES/1311015/1402/NEWS?p=2&tc=pg#gsc.tab=0

        The experimental design is nuts. They randomly assign to two groups. The “experimental” group gets the purif right away for 4-6 weeks and are tested before and after. The “control GETS THE PURIF ALSO BUT THEY NEED TO WAIT 4-6 WEEKS. That is not a control group. They both get the same treatment. How on earth did this get past the DOD peer review?

        So… they are recruiting war vets without serious psychiatric issues to go to a $cilon sauna facility for the purif, being paid for by $640,000 taxpayer dollars. They are also housing the coordinator there (and paying for space I am sure). So the $cilon facility gets paid to do the purif on 50 new people.

        I am angry, real angry.

        • Cat Daddy
        • kemist

          They’re doing this at a scilon facility ??? And paying them ?!?!

          Independent study my a$$ !

          • Free Minds, Free Hearts

            Yes Servena Park is a $cilon facility, mentioned in an article with two other sauna facilities that John Travolta was fund raising for.

        • kemist

          And why does the DoD fund this crap ? WTF evaluated this application ?

          I would expect NCCAM (which regularly funds worthless woo-woo, especially when there are senators or celebrities who push it) to do such a thing, but the DoD ?

    • kemist

      There is a 2011 thread about this on WWP:

      https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/us-dod-funding-of-scientology-detox-programs-and-gulf-war-veterans.91926/

      Seems the guy has been trying to get this study funded for quite some time.

  • http://www.tumblr.com/blog/scientoonery Natalia M
  • 3feetback-of-COS

    With the cult touting its “technology” so much, I wonder if a case could be made that, if their technology is shown to be made-up crap, would they be guilty of fraud or maybe false advertising? Is that how they’ve been nailed for fraud in Europe?

    • kemist

      Unfortunately, no.

      They have to make specific claims about it, especially claims that violate a professional code. If your claims are limited to exorcising dead alien souls, you can claim it’s a “religious artifact”.

      The fraud case in Europe is about illegal practice of phamacy IIRC (I think the scientologists involved were selling niacin and stuff for the quacky purification rundown.)

  • Sydjazz

    http://youtu.be/sacLNUJ8ZJ0 reminded me of this show about the emeter on auatralian tv.

  • SS

    “You want to shake your preclear to the depths of his soul? You just start monkeying around with Life Continuum.”

    “Monkeying around”, indeed. Look no further than this statement for the root of the seemingly endless psychotic breaks, suicides, and general craziness within Scientology. You’ve got a college dropout with a God complex and zero respect for authority encouraging other hacks to “monkey around” in peoples’ minds using techniques he developed based on his own ridiculous theories. And this monster actually takes offense when his “breakthroughs” aren’t accepted into the mainstream?

    Whatever the afterlife may be, I really hope this dude is paying a severe price for all the suffering that his ego and lack of compassion caused in this world.

    P.S. Not knocking college dropouts, only ones who practice medicine.

    • sugarplumfairy

      That’s a great post script..

  • Troy MacGyver

    Help me POST some relevant comments up here.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QavEOfgeOi4&feature=youtu.be

    • Captain Howdy

      You sure it’s not “comment pending approval”? Evey scilon vid on YT I’ve ever seen was.

      • Anonymous

        Thats why they mysteriously get uploaded by other people somehow…

        • Captain Howdy

          Usually they don’t even allow comments.

          This is good for tracking who’s left in the cult.

      • Troy MacGyver

        i’ve gotten dozens to stay on!

    • Cat Daddy

      If there are higher states of existance why does Slappy look for it on the bottom of a Scotch Bottle ?

  • Cat Daddy
  • http://twitter.com/Scientology_411 Scientology_411

    Funny thing about germanium transistors, they’re prized by guitar effect makers for some types of distortion and fuzz pedals. Wonder what would happen if I plugged my guitar into my old Mark V meter? ;)

    • 3feetback-of-COS

      you could run out your guitar’s body thetans!

      • RMycroft

        Use a Cry Baby wah-wah, make your mamma sigh.

      • http://twitter.com/Scientology_411 Scientology_411

        But man those BTs give it such a great tone!

  • RMycroft

    Ha! I came across a group new to me: The Church of Religious Science.

    I have no idea what their bag is, but you know that they’re low on the cult pecking order when they have a disclaimer not to confuse them with Scientology or Christian Science!

  • Robert

    HELP: Are there any message boards or sites where L. Ron Hubbard is discussed in less extreme terms? Looking for a site where neither a view of a visionary leader nor the view of an evil conman are solely promoted. Do any such discussions exist?

    • Sejanus

      How about as an Evil Leader or as a Visionary Conman?
      lol

    • Cat Daddy

      Mike Rinders blog and Marty Rathbuns blog have a list of sites you might like at the right hand side of the page

      http://www.friendsoflrh.org/images/LRH_Kens_fav.jpg

      • Robert

        I am not looking for pro LRH sites. Those are more off-putting than the hate sites.

        • Cat Daddy

          You know you are dealing with a man that lied a lot don’t you

          This site has some basic interviews without all the hoopla

          http://www.freezone.org/

          http://www.freezone.org/images/fz_logoa.gif

          • Robert

            I am not interested in engaging in worshipping or hating the person or discussing how some perceived flaw proves he is hate worthy or how some perceived genius makes him God worthy.

            • Cat Daddy
            • Cat Daddy
            • Anonymous

              Then read Lawrence Wrights: Going Clear and the Prison of Belief. He deals very evenhandedly with the subject.

            • Once_Born

              Your only option seems to be to read both sides, research the primary sources (good books will include references) and make your own judgement.

              Most people who have done this (outside of the Church) have concluded that Hubbard’s behaviour was morally questionable (to say the least) and his ‘research’ worthless.

              Sometimes, the truth lies somewhere in between the extremes. This is not one of those cases.

            • Cat Daddy

              Not completely worthless

            • Zer0

              You know, there is a spectrum of human endeavors that lies between hating and worshipping. And it is odd for you to harp on “perceptions” in the comment section of a respected investigative journalist. Just look at the facts.

            • Robert

              The Disqus comment section and the opinions expressed there, and the blog are two different things.

            • Zer0

              Yes, you could easily skip the comments if you like. There are HTML links to approximately 120 investigative reports at the bottom of today’s article, under the heading “Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts.”

            • Robert

              Thank-you.

              But as I have already said, I am not seeking information or investigative reports or articles on L Ron Hubbard. I am looking for a comment section or discussion board where the only two options are trashing or worshipping him.

        • Zer0

          “Hate sites” is a completely inappropriate term for sites combating the human rights abuses perpetrated by the Church of Scientology.

          That’s like telling someone they are “off-putting” because they hate child abuse.

        • Robert Eckert

          There are billions of people in the world who do not care about L. Ron Hubbard and run a number of websites which say nothing about him.

          If you want a site that does discuss him, and does so objectively, this is the place. Pay more attention to Tony’s journalism than to our comments, scintillatingly though they are. If L. Ron Hubbard comes off very badly in any objective study of him, well so do Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, and Kim Jong-Un, for similar reasons.

    • Patrik Axelsson

      I’m afraid you’re in for a really tough time there Robert. Hubbard was an extremely polarizing figure, whom it is hard to find a neutral opinion on. This is made worse by the Church of Scientology being viciously litigious and so often scaring away serious academic discussion of Hubbards biography. I took a course a couple of years back on “new religious movements” which had some neutrally phrased material on Hubbard and Scientology, but it may take me a few days to find it for you.

      • Cat Daddy

        ALL NERDS HATE HUBBARD

        And thety have smarts

      • jeff

        It’s in Hugh Urban’s book.

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      You might be out of luck, buddy. The owner took down RonWasOkayIGuess dot com because it was boring as shit and the forum was empty.

      • Suzy

        LOL thanks I needed that! Just came in from hour of bad traffic and you put the smile right back on my face.

        • Jimmy Threetimes

          :)

      • Priscilla

        Maybe Robert would like to revive this site.

    • Anonymous

      I would look to the Independents for a more favorable view of Hubbard, but like others have said, he’s a very divisive figure. You could always read Lawrence Wrights book if you’re looking for something truly neutral though. Wright neither demonises nor reveres Hubbard.

      http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=going%20clear

      • Robert

        Not looking for favorable views. Favourable views are just as distorted and unreliable as unfavorable views.

        • Anonymous

          You could always read Lawrence Wrights book if you’re looking for
          something truly neutral though. Wright neither demonises nor reveres
          Hubbard.

          • Robert

            Thank-you.

            I am looking for a comment section or discussion board not information on L Ron Hubbard.

            • Zer0

              The only “neutral” opinions of Scientology are found amongst the uninformed. So good luck with finding a neutral discussion board.

            • aegerprimo

              Why?

            • Zer0

              Agree… doesn’t really make sense. Maybe he’s writing a school report?

            • aegerprimo

              A discussion forum would not be a valid reference for a school research paper.

            • Robert

              I expect that there may be some interesting discussions that could be had on the subject, that cannot be had at extreme pro or extreme con sites.

            • Zer0

              You’d be having “interesting discussions” with people who have no knowledge of the subject. That actually sounds quite dreary.

            • aegerprimo

              Okay. Good luck with that.
              BRB, I’m off to get some Febreze..

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              We can have a neutral discussion on LRH right here, if you’d like. I believe he loved boats, but others say he was only very fond of boats. What is your opinion?

            • aegerprimo

              I believe he loved ascots and hats, but others believe he was only very fond of ascots and hats…

            • Zer0

              Especially Fedora caps. They were so timeless for Hubbard.

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              Now there’s an interesting debate. I don’t know how I feel about that. I will say, though, he was a white American male. That is a fact that cannot be debated.

            • aegerprimo

              He had red hair. That might be debatable…

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              YOU’RE A DAMN LIAR IT WAS ORANGE FFS

              sorry LRH just makes me so angry

            • aegerprimo

              Are you angry, very angry?
              Red, ginger, orange… Okay, so definitely did not have black hair.

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              Agreed. His hair color did not match that of his heart.

            • Once_Born

              I hope I’m not being too controversial here, but a more balanced view would suggest that he was more pink that white, and sometimes (when annoyed) almost red.

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              In the thread you were supposed to collapse and ignore, you chose to post a very funny comment instead. :)

            • Once_Born

              What can I say…

              In the early days of surgery (pre-anaesthetic) there was a Scottish professor of surgery who urged his students not to drink before performing an amputation. When one of his students pointed out that the professor was invariably drunk on the job he is said to have replied:

              “My function is that of a signpost. I point the way. I do not have to go there myself.”

              And that’s my final word. Probably.

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              That is great, I’ll remember that.

            • Zer0

              I believe he loved his feet. His daily affirmation was that they were “perfect and lovely.”

    • Missionary Kid

      I believe that you’re making a serious error because you haven’t read enough unfiltered writing about him.

      If you read material from his own papers, independent witnesses who worked with him, and from Freedom of Information Act sources, you will find that there is no moral equivalence between the pro and anti groups.

      One reason that the anti-Hubbard group is so strident is because they are often have been attacked simply for telling the truth.

    • Captain Howdy

      Here’s one.

      http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?22255-Eeek!!-OSA-Bogeyman-Bill-Yaude

    • Observer

      Good luck. Anything that tells the unvarnished truth about Hubbard will be negative, because the unvarnished truth is so appalling.

    • 1subgenius

      I’m looking for such a forum on Godwin

    • aegerprimo

      ROFL

      • aegerprimo

        Here is a cut-and-paste of part of the synopsis…

        “Scientology is one of the wealthiest and most powerful new religions to emerge in the past century. To its detractors, L. Ron Hubbard’s space-age mysticism is a moneymaking scam and sinister brainwashing cult. But to its adherents, it is humanity’s brightest hope. Few religious movements have been subject to public scrutiny like Scientology, yet much of what is written about the church is sensationalist and inaccurate. Here for the first time is the story of Scientology’s protracted and turbulent journey to recognition as a religion in the postwar American landscape.”

      • Once_Born

        Both objective and balanced – and often criticized for being ‘sort on cults’ because Urban leaves the moral judgements to his readers.

        Sometimes, you can’t win.

        • aegerprimo

          Urban did include info about Operation Snow White, Paulette Cooper and Operation Freakout. If people can’t make a moral decision in learning about those two Co$ fiascos, I don’t know. Soft on cults? His book at least will make the reader want to pursue more research, and URLs are provided including the Underground Bunker.

          • Once_Born

            Just to be clear, I don’t agree with the ‘soft on cults’ judgement, and actually prefer Urban’s academic approach. He presents verifiable facts, and leaves the reader to judge for themselves – which is surely the point.

            Some activists however, mistake objectivity for indifference, and complain that he does not also condemn abuses (like the CofS’s savage treatment of Paulette Cooper) .

    • Zer0

      There most likely will never be an exhaustive academic study of L Ron Hubbard for 2 reasons. The most obvious reason is that he was a pathologic liar, and there is little of value in his writings because they are poorly conceived, inaccurate, contradictory, and generally like having unnecessary dental work. The second reason is that his writing was so voluminous and obsessive that no specialist could possibly be interested in all of it. The academic interested in cult psychology will probably not be interested in how to run a dental billing office.

    • Great White Clam

      What part of “L. Ron Hubbard was an evil conman” did you fail to fully duplicate?

      • Robert

        What part of “Are there any message boards or sites where L. Ron Hubbard is discussed in less extreme terms? Looking for a site where neither a view of a visionary leader nor the view of an evil conman are solely promoted. Do any such discussions exist?” did you fail to understand?

        • Zer0

          The problem is that “view of an evil conman” is the correct view, so you’re looking for an uninformed message board. Most people avoid those.

          • Baby

            Edited to add..

            Most BUNKER people avoid those.. ; 0

        • Great White Clam

          I’ll repeat the auditing question. “What part of “L. Ron Hubbard was an evil conman” did you fail to fully duplicate?”

        • Once_Born

          It’s not a matter of promotion. It’s a matter of truth.

          Objective inquiry reveal that Ron lied – for example about his war record. His official records show that he lied about the medals he was awarded during his service (he claimed two that were not even minted until after he left the navy).

          Whether you make a moral judgement about this matter is up to you. I do. I think it is wrong. I’m not “[…] promoting a view” when I say this. The judgement follows from the facts.

          Elsewhere on this forum members are pursuing an objective inquiry into the question of whether Ron wore medal ribbons which claimed awards that he not, in fact received during his military service.

          It’s a shame that this non-discussion is distracting from the question of Ron’s medal ribbons – especially at the same time when someone is abusing the ‘flag as inappropriate’ facility to limit discussion of this interesting question.

          • Robert

            There is no distraction. People who wanted to read and comment did and whoever did not didn’t. Spare me the obnoxious victimology.

            • Sarah James

              Want to buy a door knob for 75 bucks?

            • Once_Born

              However, people who wanted to comment on the other matter couldn’t, because two posts have been flagged for no legitimate reason.

              BTW, you need to word clear look up ‘victimology (and spell it correctly). It does not mean ‘victimisation’.

              Also, how is it obnoxious to point out that this non-discussion is distracting from the question of Ron’s fraudulent medal ribbons?

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              Not to defend this dolt, but he did spell it correctly, unless I’m only reading the comment post-edit. Regardless of spelling, it does not mean what he thought it means.

              And if this thread is a distraction to anyone, they can collapse the entire thing by clicking the – to the left of the little flag, on the far right of any post.

            • Once_Born

              I’m pretty sure that it was spelled ‘victomology’ not long ago.

              And you are right. I would recommend collapsing the thread.

        • grundoon

          Neither view is solely promoted at http://mikerindersblog.org

          • Robert

            Read the mission statement. Sounds like a pro Hubbard site. Not interested. But thanks.

            • Zer0

              Well you just rejected ALL of our recommendations. Maybe go check for better info over at TMZ?

            • grundoon

              As I said, neither view is solely promoted there. You would do better to look at some of the site’s recent blog posts and comments, rather than rely on a possibly outdated mission statement.

            • SS

              Robert, I think grundoon is steering you correctly. I’ve made a number of anti-Hubbard posts at Rinder’s blog that have always been let through….. and I’ve seen many others. You also get a positive/negative mix and much debate at Marty Rathbun’s blog.

              Generally speaking, I think it’s a pretty tall order to ask for a lukewarm community regarding Hubbard since he is such a polarizing figure. Good luck to you anyway.

            • Cat Daddy

              Marty is on board, Rinder walks a tight rope between inviting just outs and the truth

        • Gerard Plourde

          Not sure what it is you’re looking for. The fact is that Hubbard lied about his war record, conveniently forgot that he was married three rather than two times, greatly exaggerated his pre-World War II travels and experiences and was responsible for creating many if not most of the abuses that occur in Scientology. So I would submit that he was in some sense both a visionary leader (in the way dictators are visionary leaders) and a conman who perpetrated much evil. Is that the balance you want?

          • Cat Daddy

            His truths were all “acceptable thruths”

            • Gerard Plourde

              I think you’re right.

          • Robert

            You are not sure? How could I be more clear? I have no doubt the person L Ron Hubbard, included a bad self, maybe even a very bad self. It could be said, and I do say, that each person has a crowd of selves or personas that could be talked about, not just one. Scientologists want to say there was only one self in L. Ron Hubbard and it was this visionary, a perfect human being or whatever distorted view is believed. Haters want to say there was only one self in L. Ron Hubbard and it was an evil contemptible worthless con artist. I am asking if there are any other discussion forums that do not have the agenda to enforce one of these two extreme views. I cannot make it any clearer then that. I assume from the replies that no such discussion exists.

            • Suzy

              A crowd of selves or a crowd of body thetans?

            • Robert

              A crowd of selves.

            • Cat Daddy

              Planet must be cleared by now 7 Billion people, Every Thetan has a body right ?

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              “I have no doubt the person L Ron Hubbard, included a bad self, maybe even a very bad self.”

              What? Why are you looking for non-extreme LRH discussions, you need to start looking for an English class ASAP!

            • Zer0

              Oh shit, does Robert have an Italian accent?

            • Zer0

              You’re insane. Maybe investigate that, first! Make a to-do list.

            • Suzy

              Robert since we clearly haven’t been able to point you to such a neutral discussion board, why don’t you do some research on your own and then come back and share your discoveries with us.

            • Robert Eckert

              Try to find a site which discusses Kim Jong-Un’s better side, that is not pro-North Korea

            • Robert

              I did not ask for a site that discussed L. Ron Hubbard’s better side.

            • Baby

              Robert.. I just want to say.. and this will be my last comment about this to you.

              The majority of us Loathe Hubbard… LOATHE him. Posters here have had lives destroyed and families torn apart. The Never Ins have done their research about this man.

              We are not interested in hearing or reading what you seek.

              Respectfully.. You WILL NOT FIND THE ANSWER THAT you are looking for here.

            • Cat Daddy
            • Baby

              OK what is the message Cat? I forget ; /

            • Cat Daddy

              Hubbard did some black magic stuff that involved masturbating with his good buddy Jack Parsons, I don’t know where the sperm went though

            • Once_Born
            • Baby

              YUCK…I had read that.. Now to get that damn image out my head..Thanks Alot Cat..

              Ugh, ugh, ugh… Patoooooootie ( I just spit the taste of out my mouth..) Water, must have water..( Or smelling salts..)

            • Espiando

              Robert: there fucking aren’t any. Get the goddamn hint. Why don’t you just leave and look for one if you’re so certain they exist? You might be able to find a Golden Age literary SF discussion board where there might be some neutrality regarding Hubbard’s work in that field, but that’s it.

              The point here is that he insinuated himself into the identity of Scientology to the point where his portrait hangs in every org and he has an office set up for when he “comes back”, not to mention that every new development in the organization has to be publicized as meeting his desires on the subject. Hubbard is Scientology, and Scientology is Hubbard.

              What the fuck don’t you understand about this, you cretin?

            • Hubbub

              You might try the book Bare Faced Messiah, which was a well-researched stroll through Hubbard’s lifetime of selves. It gave me an understanding of where he came from, his motivations, what qualities he had that allowed him to create and become the leader of of COS. But like the others are saying, it might be hard to find a resource that, with proper research and an open mind, doesn’t end up coming to the same conclusions about his morality time after time, including his own family.

            • grundoon

              “It could be said, and I do say, that each person has a crowd of selves or personas that could be talked about, not just one.”

              You might get others interested in discussing your concepts at http://copingwithdissociativeidentitydisorder.yuku.com/

        • Just Dee

          It could be just me but… I think this is a detract/derail on the Hubbard fake war medals topic that was brought up by Eclipse Girl. This is the second attempt today and her posts do keep disappearing.

          • Zer0

            LRH’s stolen valor (fake medals) has been extensively reported by Wright, Touretzky, Ortega and others. I suppose it might be a sore point with Miscavige, but it seems like a tiny issue compared with Rinder in a Helicopter over Superpower.

            • Just Dee

              Okay? :)

            • Just Dee

              Hmmm ok, your paragraph changed – I don’t see what one issue has to do with the other. There is no comparing the two in my opinion..

            • Once_Born

              But no-one seems to have thought to examine the medal ribbons he wore during his service (as seen in contemporary photographs) to see if those were fake, too.

              Unless someone knows different, this seems to be an original inquiry that could prove very embarrassing to the CofS.

            • Zer0

              Great angle on it, thanks for your work! The most embarrassing thing for the CoS has always been LRH!

            • Once_Born

              It’s not my work… Eclipse-girl came up with this one.
              I just think it deserves more attention.

            • Cat Daddy

              We keep poking them with whatever hurts them

            • Just Dee

              And people never seem to run out of scientology B.S. They make it very easy now a days for us to be able to check up on their lies.

            • Cat Daddy
          • Once_Born

            It’s not just you.

            • Just Dee

              I just scrolled down some – good to see…. Thanks, Great Posts!

          • Robert Eckert

            No, it’s not just you. This is a brand-new Disqus account set to private, doubtless by the same person who tried to get arguing about nuclear bombs earlier, and of course the same person who flagged E-Girl’s post. We have seen this before.

            • Eclipse-girl

              TY for all that you do. I do not know the last time I said it. My appreciation is always there.

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              I have no doubt this was an intentional derail, but this guy posted his ridiculous question long before E-Girl attempted to re-post her findings. So the timing doesn’t really fit.

            • Robert

              Actually, the only clear cut intentional derail attempts are yours and other’s accusations of derail. I asked a simple question and you turned what might have been a brief query into a troll festival instigated by your own trolling. The neither all pro or all con site question has been answered, or non-answered, and the Rinder site seems to be the best place to post, according to posters here.

          • Eclipse-girl

            Is it odd that I feel honored to be targeted?

          • Sandy

            Just Dee. I was gonna post this earlier. I believe this is a derail attempt. It’s better than most amateur attempts, but, eventually, they all give themselves away. Don’t they…?

    • 1subgenius

      Looks like you’ll have to start one of your own. Go for it.
      That should be cool.

  • Sir_Real

    The old Operation game was probably a more complex and higher quality gizmo than their fraudulent E-Meters of any model.

    • aegerprimo

      My favorite game!

  • Zer0

    Even at his very best, whatever faux gravitas LRH builds during a talk, he always ruins it with something silly. Like today’s video concluding with his statement that you can touch the depths of someone’s soul by “monkeying around.”

  • Sidney18511

    To all my bunker buds….I found an old article that ran in Premier magazine in 1993 that you all might find interesting and might want to bookmark. It contains celeb info, dirty dirty tricks and several comments from the 2 MR’s when they were still chugging the koolaid.

    http://www.bible.ca/scientology-poor-famous-members.htm

    And this site is a mother lode of info….enjoy!

    http://www.bible.ca/scientology.htm

    • Captain Howdy

      Good find. Could you imagine Cruise allowing questions like those to be asked of him today?

      And it’s weird, but I’ve found some really obscure, cool stuff about scientology on Christian sites before.

    • aegerprimo

      Thanks Sidney! I haven’t seen these before.

      LOVE this title at the one URL you provided that has a list of references…

      “If you ain’t got money… you can’t get their religion”

    • Ardent

      Well found, Sidney18511. Fascinating reading. Thanks very much.

  • Great White Clam

    The emeter is a religious cloaking device.

  • Observer

    Eclipse Girl: your post was up for about three seconds, but vanished before I could even read the whole thing. I don’t know if this is what you were asking for. I first saw this pic on OCMB, but it’s all over the internet now.

    • Just Dee

      Me too!

    • Eclipse-girl

      Link??

      I saw that some jerk did that to my post.

      never fail, I will continue to post it. I do not mean to bore the Bunker but something tickles my ribs about enturbulating some people

      • Cat Daddy

        I have most of your post up at ESMB, I tought Tony Ortega was making it a special Item

        http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?21960-Ron-The-War-Hero&p=899599&viewfull=1#post899599

      • Observer

        This is not the thread with that pic, but it does have some info on what the Sea Org decorations mean.

        http://194.63.248.138/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=27615

      • Observer

        This is the thread where I first saw the pic: http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=32186

      • K2P2

        Eclipse-girl, I happened to order the posts for today to “oldest” and your post was the first one. I was able to see all of it. Keep re-posting.

      • Once_Born

        In reply to the post about Hubbard’s medal ribbons that someone seems very eager to suppress:

        What you need is higher-resolution images. If a scholarly archive holds copies, they might be persuaded to provide high-resolution scans to original researchers.

        Books which include these pictures should reference their source, and give you a lead – or you could (possibly) ask Jon Atack…

        • Eclipse-girl

          I may go there soon. I want to get as far as I can without that.

      • Jimmy Threetimes

        Is it bot flagging or the Disqus Monster? Sometimes long posts that include pictures or links just get swallowed up. I think it’s something Tony or t1kk should take a look at. I don’t want to bother either of them with an email, because I know they’ve changed the flag settings before.

        • Eclipse-girl

          With my 3rd attempt, it posted without an issue

          Since it din;t get flogged within 1 minute or so, i do not think it is a bot. I somehow think I have enturbulated some one.

          • Cat Daddy
            • Bury_The_Nuts

              YUm……er……NOT!!!!

          • Just Dee

            I also saved your last copy. If they take it down again we can put it up twice!

            • Eclipse-girl

              TY.

          • Jimmy Threetimes

            By ‘bot flagging’ I meant either someone using multiple computers (such as a bot net) and/or using a simple script that repeatedly sends a command. ‘Bot’ can be a vague word, so I’m sorry for the confusion. In any case, an actual person would have to be involved.

        • Zer0

          Multiple links sometimes makes the post go to moderation by default, especially if you try editing the post.

    • Gerard Plourde

      How did they miss giving him the Good Conduct Medal? Just about everybody gets one of those.

      • Cat Daddy

        Probbably because he faked stuff

        http://www.lermanet.com/L_Ron_Hubbard/MR1/mr147.jpg

      • Zer0

        Maybe because he shelled Mexico?

        In May 1943 the U.S. Navy’s USS PC-815, commanded by L. Ron Hubbard,
        conducted unauthorized gunnery exercises involving the shelling of the
        Coronado Islands, in the belief they were uninhabited and belonged to
        the United States. Unfortunately for Hubbard, the islands belonged to
        Mexico and were occupied by the Mexican Coast Guard. The Mexican
        government complained and Hubbard was relieved of command.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronado_Islands

        • Observer

          ..

      • Jimmy Threetimes

        Maybe you don’t get a Good Conduct Medal when you fire on territory belonging to an ally.

        • Gerard Plourde

          I agree that he wasn’t entitled to one but am surprised that the cult didn’t claim he had one. (I guess it’s too mundane.)

          • Cat Daddy

            Wog good conduct is frowned upon by the Church

            • Gerard Plourde

              Amen to that.

    • Miss Tia

      Where’s his bravery for pink eye medal? That’s my favorite! :)

      • aegerprimo

        Miss Tia! HELLO!

        • Miss Tia

          HELLO!! How ya doing?

          • aegerprimo

            Fantastic! Been missing you and your tweets, and am glad to see you.

            • Miss Tia

              I’ve been tweeting some! I tweeted a bunch to the VA telling ‘em had they NOT ignored LRH’s plea for psychiatric help the world probably wouldn’t have $cientology so could they please answer such pleas in the future? I mean, WHAT IF the VA stopped putting his letters in the ‘whiny little bitch file’ and actually took his plea for psychiatric help SERIOUSLY??? Would we have $cientology? Maybe not?? Think of the lives that would not have been lost, the history not revised, money not gone poof into secret accounts, etc.

              Glad to see you too! :)

      • Casabeca

        Perfect intro line Miss Tia ;).

      • Observer

        HEY! Missed you!

        • Miss Tia

          Missed you too! :)

      • TXCowgirl

        You have been conspicuously missed! Good to see you commenting tonight!!

        • Miss Tia

          Thank you TXCowgirl! :)

    • RMycroft

      Some of the valid medals and ribbons have one or two campaign/battle stars on them. What for? A magnetic anomaly, Mexico, the strawberry thief and the clap?

      • RMycroft

        A posible answer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_star#Obsolete_awards

        Although considered obsolete, service stars and campaign stars were also authorized for the World War I Victory Medal, American Defense Service Medal, American Campaign Medal, European-African-Middle Eastern Campaign Medal, and Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal. The specific manner of wear and symbolism of the stars varied from medal to medal. For example, a star on the American Campaign Medal indicated the service member had participated in an antisubmarine campaign. On others, stars were used on the medal’s service ribbon in lieu of campaign claps worn on the suspension ribbon of the medal itself.

    • Casabeca

      This is great Ms Observer…thank you much :).

    • grundoon

      “Sponge” posted the following list that purports to identify the ribbons in the photo that the Chruch gave to the New Yorker. I can’t speak to the accuracy of Sponge’s list. (Thanks to Observer for the link.)

      Left to right, top to bottom. R=Ribbon. M=Medal.

      Red text = stolen valour
      Blue text = Official navy record
      “R–” or “M–” dashes indicate missing corresponding medal or ribbon.

      *R1, M8 = Navy Pistol Marksmanship Medal (Expert)
      *R2, M13 = Navy Rifle Marksmanship Medal (Expert)
      R3, M– = Médaille commémorative de la Guerre de 1939 – 1945 (French commemorative Medal 1939-1945)
      R4, M– = “Bronzen Kruis” (Netherlands Bronze Cross)
      R5, M– = The (British) Star medal 1939-1945
      R6, M6 = Philippine Defense Medal (+3 silver stars)
      R7. M14 = Armed Forces Reserve Medal
      R8, M9 = National Defense Service Medal
      R9, M5 = World War II Victory Medal (US) (dec 1941- dec 1946)
      R10, M7 = European-African-Middle Eastern Campaign Medal (+ 2 Bronze stars)
      R11, M4 = American Campaign Medal (+2 Bronze stars)
      R12, M10 = Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal (+2 Bronze stars)
      R13, M3 = American Defense Service Medal (+ 1 Bronze star)
      R14, M– Organised Marine Corp Reserve Medal
      R15, M2 = Naval Reserve Medal
      R16, M11 = Purple Heart
      R17, M1 = Navy & Marine Corps Commendation Medal (+1 Bronze star)
      R–, M12 = Marine Corps Expeditionary Medal

      Notes:
      *
      The two marksman medals appear listed on the offical letter of
      separation but not on official personnel records so whether he actually
      earned them is in dispute. However, the particular ones displayed in the
      photo weren’t even issued before 1969 (when by that time he was
      obviously well out of the military).

  • Zer0

    (Off-topic) look what somebody found in a storage vault and is selling on Ebay:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-LRH-L-Ron-Hubbard-10K-Gold-Tie-Pin-Microphone-Mic-/380821445945?pt=US_Fine_Jewelry&hash=item58aaba1d39

    Gift idea for Tony?

    • Sarah James

      That is cool. Do you know it’s history?

      • Zer0

        No I don’t- it looks like one of those “storage wars” types just acquired it accidentally.

        • Sarah James

          He may have had that designed for himself but I think the man who faked sentiment for humanity garnered true sentimental feelings from his flock ( more than hunch.) They wanted to please him. Nice find. Makes me curious as to what other cult related items were in the locker.

          • aegerprimo

            My husband is a dealer in antiques and collectibles (and often sells on eBay). Just asked him about this item, and he says there is no market for LRH stuff. This item would be worth it’s weight in 10K gold.

            EDIT: if it really is 10K gold – the stamp does not prove it.

            • Sarah James

              Good to know. Ah, and fool’s gold…just like L Ron himself. ;-)

      • aegerprimo

        The history is not described in the auction. I sent a message to the seller. $200 is a bit high for it? I am not sure the weight of this in 10K gold is nearly worth that. Certainly the collectability of this item is not (unless there is some history to it such as where it was acquired, etc.)

        • Sarah James

          Hope Jefferson, Marc, or someone can add to the history. $200. I would not pay that as is. “To the victor goes the spoils” I like my trophies cheap lol.

        • Once_Born

          My friend sells antiques online, and I have learned that the value of this kind of item is almost entirely determined by a convincing provenance. Unfortunately, this listing does not even claim to have one.

          I wonder if it isn’t one of those ‘collectors items’ that conveniently turn up whenever the previous one sells.

          Beware.

          • Sarah James

            +1 :-)

          • Shirley Eugeste

            If Scientology teaches us anything, it’s that the more bold-faced and unabashed your lies, the more unverified and unverifiable your “facts,” the more inherently offensive and the further beneath you all questions of legitimacy and provenance are, the more people who will swallow your malarky and the more money you will ultimately make.

          • aegerprimo

            Yes! Check out the other items this seller offers… mostly pinbacks. That makes me personally suspicious that this seller did not get it from a storage unit auction.

        • TXCowgirl

          Even for $1, the potential bad juju it might bring to the buyer is not worth the novelty of having it. Gives me the willies!!

          • Casabeca

            Loved the Tex Mo articl about the church/ cult. Wow.

            • TXCowgirl

              Thanks, honey. My lifelong fascination with the psychology of cults is what led me to $cientology and then to Tony’s blog with it’s stellar reporting and this troupe of informative, sharp-witted, tolerant, creative, eye-wateringly smart and verbally impressive commenters known as the Underground Bunker. For me, it was love at first post. So glad to be a member of this posse and humbled that, on occasion, my cerebrations are considered and found to have merit. (apparently Saturday night libations result in heartfelt loquations*)

              *word clear, please

            • Casabeca

              I got here by studying cults and religion at the extreme edge too. I love it here! Only have one IRL pal who likes to discuss, so glad to have our Bunker.
              And your vocab words would confuse ordinary mortals, here it’s just a normal Monday ;).
              Sending good thoughts from the desert.

        • Zer0

          Cool you sent a message! I wonder what else was in that storage unit.

    • Techie

      Looks like one of the giveaways they used to leave for the whales on the Freewinds Maiden Voyage Anniversary events. If it is solid gold it could be worth the value of the gold, that is about it.

      • Sarah James

        The poor whales anything that was a “giveaway” cost them a fortune.

        • Techie

          True, we left a couple of cheap free CDs in their cabins and they had to up their status in the IAS for $10,000 or more.

  • Cat Daddy
    • RMycroft

      Heh. scientologymyths.com vs. Scientology’s own scientologymyths.info.

      • https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/january-25th-dublin-ireland-post-game.116500/#post-2413167 InterestedinCrazy

        I’d say the latter is a rabbit hole that would cause a major rise in blood pressure!

  • Eclipse-girl

    To PO OSA, and try for another time tonight

    This has been my personal rabbit hole for the last few days.

    Jo, and Cat Daddy had photos on Ron in uniform

    Cat Daddy’s are the first two that follow

    http://www.skepsis.nl/hubbard1

    http://www.imagick.com.br/wp-c

    and I hope the one from Jo loads
    http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads

    Moose piqued my interest. I have been very curious about the ribbons, and the possible date of the photos

    I believe the photos were all taken at the same time. Now I think the may have been doctored in the 1970s.

    I used this source for the ribbons

    http://www.officialmilitaryrib

    According to unbiased researchers (Miller, Atack, Owen, Wright) Ron earned 4 medals and no battle stars.

    The American Defense Service Medal
    The American Campaign Medal
    The Asiatic Pacific Campaign Medal
    The WWII Victory Medal

    The ribbons associated with these medals are in the 7th and 8th row from the top from the link I posted.

    According to Thomas Moulton who went to sub chaser training school with Ron, and then served as is second in command off the shores of Oregon, he and Ron always wore two battle stars on that ribbon (The American Campaign). Moulton testified to this during one of the Gerry Armstrong cases, in 1984.

    I think Ron is wearing 8 ribbons, a top row of 2 ribbons, a middle row of three ribbons and a bottom row of three ribbons.

    If the date is accurate (and I do not think it is) there would be no WW II victory medal.

    Here is an image of medals and the ribbons that Ron and Scientology claimed
    http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/7081/hubbardstolenmedals2b.jpg

    http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/31765/l-ron-hubbards-life.pdf
    go to page 11.
    There is a photo of the medals and ribbons without text on them

    I needed to have the plain image to do my checking.

    I also suspect that the image of the ribbons is actually upside down.
    The row of two ribbons should be displayed on top.

    Left and right are when looking at the photographs.

    Top row, left
    This appears to have a battle star. The ribbon itself is covered by the lapel and hard to see. I cannot see a vertical stripe on the ribbon, at all. Perhaps it is the American Defense Service ribbon, but there should be a noticeable white vertical stripe, in my opinion. My decision was highly influenced by the single battle star.

    Top row, right
    This ribbon also appears to have one battle star.
    Because of the white vertical stripes and the light color of the ribbon, I think that may be the Asiatic Pacific Campaign ribbon, and the battle star is obscuring the center (middle) vertical stripes.
    Ron later claimed two battle stars for this ribbon.

    Middle row, left
    This is a guess on my part. There are visible vertical white stripes.
    The only ribbon that comes close to matching it, in my opinion, is the Eastern African Middle Eastern Campaign Ribbon. I am not happy with that choice, but it is my best guess.
    If I am correct, this is clearly a fraudulent ribbon.
    In the photo, Ron has no battle stars, but later he or scientology claimed two battle stars for this fraudulent ribbon

    Middle row, middle
    This ribbon is obscured by two battle stars. The ribbon is light in color, and I can not distinguish the vertical stripes.
    Perhaps it is the American Campaign ribbon, but I would like to see some evidence of dark vertical stripes in the center.
    That is what I think the ribbon is because of Moulton’s testimony.

    Middle row, right
    I have no idea what this ribbon was. It is not in the Naval ribbon link, in my opinion.
    I think this ribbon corresponds with the ribbon 5th row from the top, and in the middle in the scientology display

    Bottom, left
    I am not sure. I can’t seem to find it the image in the claims of scientology.
    It appears to be dark blue with four green stripes.
    This is for expert at both pistol and rifle.

    Bottom, middle
    A dark blue ribbon with 3 green stripes displayed on the top, middle of the image.
    This is for Naval Expert Rifle

    Bottom, right
    A dark blue ribbon, with two thin green stripes displayed on the top, left on the image
    This is for Naval Expert Pistol

    The ribbons for these three marksmanship awards are in dispute. Chris Owen found evidence of such awards. But medals / ribbons were not awarded until 1969. (according to those on OCMB)

    Post 1969, was it possible to doctor photos in the way that these appear to be? All three photos?

    If someone has done this work previously (and I suspect that someone might have done it) could you please provide me a link?

    • Cat Daddy
      • Zer0

        Is he Voguing?

        • Observer

          *Snicker*

          • Zer0

            Ninja vogue (image)

            • Espiando

              Willie Ninja Field didn’t invent voguing, but he played a key role in popularizing it in New York, setting a lot of the standards. This is why Madonna used him in the video for “Vogue”.

            • Zer0

              Hey Espi! Have fun with Robert:)

            • Espiando

              I didn’t respond because I thought he’d left, but he hadn’t, so I did. Let’s hope for a retort from this cranio-rectal inversion case.

            • Zer0

              New chew toy!

        • Cat Daddy

          Is that “uniform” made of silk ?

      • Baby

        Are you sure he was homophobic ?

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          I know, rite?

          • Baby

            Hey sweetie.. Love your new avi.. You are colorful tonight

        • Cat Daddy

          “he was swiss to dick”

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9YbDFgWyjk

          • Baby

            haha Perfect Cat.. Swiss to dick.. I have no idea what it means, but it has me laughing..

            Good music.. Yep

            • Cat Daddy

              The sentence is in there and Bill Maher used it too in one of his shows

            • Baby

              I just hearsayed it..

              His uncircumcised penis smelled like Swiss Cheese..

              Or he is a complete Asshole.. I’ll go with both ( Hi Cat..)

            • Cat Daddy

              I am European, we don’t understand that the jews and I am not racist convinced all the Americans it was a good thing to cut things of of your body

            • Espiando

              It wasn’t the Jews. It was the British. Some Victorian doctors got it into their heads (no pun intended) that Doing The Snip would lessen masturbation among teenage boys, which was seen as a mammoth health crisis at the time. The ideas made the trip across the Pond, where they meshed with an equally mammoth health fad that was going on here at the time (this fad helped make the fortunes of the Kellogg and Post families, and later provided a location for the Scilons to place Battle Creek Org). When the health fad wore off and everyone realized that teenage boys are going to masturbate no matter what measures you take, circumcision was justified as being “hygienic”, not to mention something that could be tacked on to the hospital bill.

              On the receipt for my adoption, it’s specifically mentioned that I had a circumcision. What, was it a deal-breaker if I wasn’t?

            • aquaclara

              It probably wasn’t a deal breaker….but a nice add-on. Can I say that I hope you found a good home that loves and appreciates you? Even now?

            • Espiando

              It was more like a not-so-nice add-off. And, as most people know here, I didn’t get the “good home” thing. I’ve actually wondered if Catholic Charities will give me a refund. I still have the receipt, but I’m probably out of warranty.

            • Cat Daddy

              It is mutulation.

              Why havent anybody sued the state for millions of dollars?

            • Espiando

              Because we don’t have state-managed medicine here in the US, unlike in the civilized world. You may have heard about a little thing called Obamacare over there. Not even that is a single-payer state-managed system.

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              Because it’s not mandatory. Parents choose whether or not to circumcise their son.

            • Espiando

              And essentially the choice boils down to daddy going “I don’t want to have to explain why he’s different from me” and mommy going “I don’t want to have to take the addition five seconds to retract the foreskin and clean under it”. So long, foreskin.

            • Cat Daddy

              But the son doesn’t choose to be mutulated and is underage

              It is sexual sadism and disfiguration of a minor

              It is even worse than Hubbard stuffing children in a chain locker

            • Espiando

              You know, we’re getting to the point of serious derail with this topic, almost as bad as the Scilon trolls earlier today. I’ll just end this off with the fact that I didn’t have a say in it, it happened, and I’ve had to live without one for 49 years. Glad you still have yours and everything, but it’s really a non-starter.

            • Cat Daddy

              No you deluted fuck, Cutting bits of kids is barbaric

            • Espiando

              Look, you stupid piece of shit, I’m not in favor of circumcision either. However, I am experienced in the ways of the Internet enough to know that bringing up this topic is Guaranteed Mammoth Derail, and it’s been that way since Usenet. It’s almost as bad as your perpetual postings of asinine videos everywhere you go. And if you keep talking about foreskins, I’ll start slamming you for that.

              I just want this to stop right now before we go off the tracks completely.

            • Cat Daddy

              Look you humongous fuck

              agreed

            • Baby

              YOU GUYS!!!!!!

              I am going to bed…but come on… Agree to disagree about Dicks..

              OSA loves it when we fight.. Let’s get back to Hating Hubbard and all he stood for..

              Love Baby…

            • Cat Daddy

              NO the cutting of bits of Baby’s is wrong period

            • Espiando

              Shut. The. Fuck. Up. Now.

            • Cat Daddy

              Not for you

            • Baby

              For me?

            • Cat Daddy

              Okay if that bunny shuts up too

            • Espiando

              Why don’t you go back to posting your shit videos that no one watches or cares about?

            • Cat Daddy

              You did not stop

              I will say if Baby reprimands you right now and you will stop I will stop

            • Espiando

              Don’t bring Baby into this. And I don’t give in to anyone. You should know that by now.

            • Baby

              TRUCE…. …… night

            • TXCowgirl

              Nighy-night, my friend. Sorry I missed you this evening.

              I’m anxious awaiting new chapters from your upcoming short story about the weird-as-hell, boundry-less, eating-your-chili-with-her-fingers, montessori workmate. Has she been freed to passive-agressively terrorize some other establishment?

            • Baby

              Both of you… JUST TRUCE… It is hurting my heart.. I have had a really bad day..

              and Espi.. I always watch Cat’s Videos and enjoy them… Ok.. love you too CAt.. I am going to bed!

            • Cat Daddy
            • Baby

              Come on Espi.. Osa is lovin this..

            • Baby

              Espi.. Will you please change subject for me..

            • Espiando

              Baby, the subject I’m talking about is derailing, not circumcision. Circumcision is a guaranteed subject to trigger derailing. And if you look below, you’ll notice that I’m not in favor of it either. I’m just being proactive in preventing this place from going down in a flamewar. I’ve seen it happen with this subject too many times.

            • Baby

              Got it.. xox.. I misunderstood.. Yawwwwwwwwwwwwn..night Espi..

            • Espiando

              Love you too, Babes. You have a good night.

            • Baby

              Hey.. You are talking to a baby!

              I just said agree to Disagree.. Who gives a shit..

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Yep.

            • joan nieman

              You are right baby. Don’t fight over opinions guys, it won’t change the world overnight. It is off topic anyway. Love to you all.

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              Agree. This is the strangest off-topic discussion I’ve been a part of here. I’ve always thought of it jokingly as “fuck you, my dad did it to me, so I did it to you, and you’ll do it to your son.” And now I’ll back out of this thread.

            • grundoon

              ” I’ve had to live without one for 49 years”

              Uhhh, how much did they cut off?

              No, don’t answer – forget I asked

            • Zer0

              Sometime a derail is like beers after work. Not necessary or important, but perhaps builds a little connection.

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              This derail was worth it only because it forced Baby, perhaps the kindest and sweetest poster here, to say: “come on… Agree to disagree about Dicks.” Classic.

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              Maybe, but parents or legal guardians are trusted to make decisions for babies.

            • Cat Daddy

              It’s sick and Americans should know better

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              It’s “he would switch to dick when it came to magic.”

              Being Swiss to dick would imply that one is neutral to dick. Speaking of which, does anyone know of any Swiss-like forums that are neutral on the subject of dicks? I have one, and I’m tired of the internet comment boards that have extreme views. It’s always “They are horrible and offensive!” or “I love them they are the greatest!” I just want a neutral dick blog. Any suggestions?

          • aegerprimo

            Spegma.
            That is all.

      • Once_Born

        Is it me, or do the shadows cast by the folding chair (and the lighting of the subject) reveal this picture to have taken in a studio, in front of a backdrop?

        • Cat Daddy

          MY TOUGHTS ECXACTLY.

          STUDIO PHOTOS AFTER THE FACT

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          Looks like the shadow is on a short retaining wall. If it was on the buildings in the background, you would have a stronger case.

    • Eclipse-girl

      I want to thank EVERYONE who directed me to various sites for more info.

    • Ardent

      Amazing job, Eclipse-girl! Thanks for doing all that research. Again, the charlatan is exposed.

  • Cindy
  • Bury_The_Nuts

    So lookie there…..the e-meter is bullshit!
    Who knew?

  • Cat Daddy
  • Sarah James

    Demonstration for Barbara Cordova at Big Blue. Karen De La Carriere posted on SP’s ‘r’. US.

    • Suzy

      Did anyone see the KTLA coverage of the protest?

    • Baby

      Heh Sarah.. When I hearsay it what exactly do I put? I have never been there because I can’t find it. thanks Baby

      • Douglas D. Douglas
        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          Is this the parking lot that is full because they rent it to Kaiser for employees to park in?

      • Sarah James

        Baby, I had trouble too but I think the right way to get on is facebook.

  • aquaclara

    Tony, this is a HUGE body of unbelievable work. Thank you for unravelling the secrets and sharing them with all of us. Given the paranoia of Scientology, unwrapping the secrets is meaningful.

    These are important stories. They deserve to be told.

  • Ardent

    Well colour me shocked! Who knew that after all these years my initial reaction from just walking in off the street into the Toronto Org, would be correct? “It’s just a galvanometer” says I. “What can this possibly prove?”
    Answer, thanks to Jon Atack: nothing. Duped persons holding onto tin cans and reading something into it. They may as well read bird’s entrails.

  • Shirley Eugeste

    With apologies to Bonnie and Bryan…

    Rock slamming all night long
    Rock slamming till the light of dawn
    Slow and easy tried and true
    Rock slamming
    Just me and you
    Amateurs are clearly tought
    They can’t give you what you really want
    When all the other have been untrue
    I’ll give you something you can hold on to

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzgbYPZEeo0

  • Sidney18511

    The DOD is funding a clinical trial on the Hubbard method detox. The trial will be held on gulf war vets.

    http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/study/NCT01672710

    • Cat Daddy

      no doubt it will be a modified version

    • Espiando

      Like that hasn’t been posted here three times today already due to the post at Das Rinderblog. Read Moar.

    • scnethics

      At first, I thought this was good because it will show that this program does not do any of the things it says it does; however, that won’t help me get people out of scientology. The trial could be a disaster and to scientologists that will only prove that the people conducting the trial didn’t administer the Purification Rundown properly. So it won’t help my cause. I guess it could raise public awareness that scientology is crap, but everyone I talk to in the real world seems to know that already.

      I can guarantee you OSA is working on making sure they know who all the participants are, so that they can make sure everyone involved has an improved life during and after their participation. Participants will meet someone new who is so helpful to them, maybe offering them an easy, work from home job that pays them handsomely. Maybe they’ll get contacted out of the blue and informed of an inheritance from a distance relative they’ve never heard of. If they’re single, maybe they’ll someone special, who puts them on cloud nine for a while. OSA will be pulling out all the stops, because this could mean a lot of government money. It’s only a question of whether they still have the kind of resources (people) they would need to pull something like this off.

      • Once_Born

        Scroll down a bit to see reasonable cause to suspect that this is Scientology’s response to criticism about the total lack of properly-conducted research into the ‘Purification Rundown’.

        Turns out the ‘data’ will be gathered in a Scientology facility and the independence of the two ‘researchers’ is… somewhat suspect.

        In short, like the tobacco industry. if the CofS can’t find proper research to support its claims, it will ‘commission’ research that it will insure will come to the desired conclusion.

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        Problem is that it is being down at a $cilon sauna facility in Maryland, co-investigator Kathleen Kerr form Canada Narconon. They will fake the results.

  • Zer0

    Is it possible to be a pathological liar without being a sociopath?

    • Cat Daddy

      expand on that plox

      • Zer0

        I’m just thinking that the sociopath/ narcissist personalities include pathologic lying…. so is it possible to lie as fluently and easily as the sociopath does, outside of the affliction?

        • Cat Daddy

          Munchausen

          But not by proxy of course

          • Zer0

            I’m just trying to speculate on LRH, based on sociopathic/narcissistic statements

            • Cat Daddy

              I understand, there is a disease that makes a person have memories after hearing a story if he had lived it himself

              I speculated on that myself and even him having Asperger like me

            • Zer0

              Cat, I never knew about your Asp. Thanks for fighting evil with us:)

            • Cat Daddy

              Alsoo ADHD , best of both worlds

              Scientology can especially a trap to people with autism I think

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              Do you mean joining Scientology or becoming a Scientology-watcher? I’d like to know more about this. Were there many autistic Scientologists?

            • Cat Daddy

              I mean that Communication course must appeal to people with Autism and the fact you have defined answers

            • Once_Born

              Do you think that the following features might also appeal?

              1) The lack of ambiguity (everything in Scientology is presented as absolutely certain)
              2) When you have the ability to focus for long periods of time, you can master the details of Hubbard’s output in a way that neurotypical people cannot

            • Cat Daddy

              YES, I could not put it in words buy you surely have.

              It’s like learning a computer programm of sorts

              And Compassion , Sympathy and Empathy are difficult to grasp, I was fortunate to have had a good upbringing.

              Maybe that is why I am so against Hubbard and Scientology because it denies people from being treuly connected to other human beings.

            • Free Minds, Free Hearts

              Cat Daddy, that is an excellent point. Well said. It denies people from really connecting to other people, which can be a challenge for people on the autism spectrum anyway.

            • aquaclara

              Thanks, Cat Daddy. Your reasoning is spot-on.

            • Ardent

              What a thoughtful and great reply, Cat Daddy. Thanks for sharing. You’re doing great, I think. Your realisation about the cult makes it all the more personal for you, yes? Bravo.

        • Ardent

          That is an interesting question. I knew a pathological liar for many years, and he also had a few anti-social traits. But I am not sure he’d qualify as a sociopath. I think Hubbard WAS a sociopath, and I am very certain DM is one as well. Mad as a hatter and dangerous.

  • Robert Eckert

    Documentary is coming out about the Unarius, a little but long-lived UFO cult (my aunt went to hear their leader once, back when 1974 was the firm date for the aliens to land).

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/01/unarius-documentary_n_4697049.html?ref=topbar

    • TXCowgirl

      I would definitely pop some corn and settle in to watch MST3000 do a screening of one of Unarius’ low-budget past life experience movie attempts. Am laughing aloud simply at the thought of it.

      • Robert Eckert

        This is a very California cult.

        • TXCowgirl

          The Cali-cult COTS.

          Edit to add: That comment was clever in my head, not so much in my post. Sleepy gal.

          • TXCowgirl

            Zzzzzzz…hiccup…Zzzzzz…hiccup…zzzzz…hic…..

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        Here’s an extensive one from our friends at YouTube:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDFGLynLAas

      • Artoo45

        I used to watch their astonishingly bad public access cable show in college. They seem mostly harmless, but who knows . . .

        • TXCowgirl

          They make me laugh.

  • Jimmy Threetimes

    Goodnight Bunker, Goodnight Moon. Before I go, I’d like to dedicate a song to all the friendly folk here in the Bunker… You don’t know you’re beautiful, and that’s what makes you beautiful.

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=tQbSbcgNDHM

    • Tone

      Wow do I need an insulin injection about now

      • DodoTheLaser

        You mean my Vader select?

    • DodoTheLaser

      I like it all. Message and the song. Thank you, Jimmy.

    • Charlotte

      LOL!

  • media_lush
  • Great White Clam

    For being such an EXPERT “filmmaker” Hubsurd sure didn’t leave much of a legacy. What did he do, a few commercials for the cult? Did he ever actually do any feature-length films?

  • Charlotte

    Off Topic, sorry: Having problems at home with my eldest child, and looking into psychological help. Extreme intelligence coupled with inability to control temper. I’m feeling extra sorry for all Co$ parents who aren’t allowed to get their families the help they need. It is so difficult to deal with this. I doubt vitamins and saunas are going to be the expert recommendation.

    • EnthralledObserver

      I feel for you… I think I have the same problem with my oldest teen daughter… only without the ‘extreme intelligence’ part… she’s pretty average intelligence, but highly lazy. The BRAT!

      • Charlotte

        His teacher wants to have him tested to see how far he can go. I think challenging him at school this year might be of help, but we’ve reached the point where we have started consulting doctors. I don’t feel any shame, but know that many still feel a stigma around it.
        Good luck, EO. I dread to think of him in his teens if we don’t get help.

        • EnthralledObserver

          Kids can fool you… mine IS so lazy, yet has held a part-time job, plays two musical instruments which she practices regularly, applied for a leadership role for year 12 (Cultural Leader – though didn’t get it, it’s a ‘popularity thing’) and did better in her grades at school last semester which the headmistress noticed and commended her for. Two ‘Top of subject’ awards (not A’s though)… yet nearly kills her siblings she’s gets so angry and violent, has cut herself (I’ve noticed it’s mood swings in time with her menstrual cycle). Some days I’m not sure whether to applaud her or yell at her.
          I hope you find some help to give you strategies to bring out the best in your lad… they are out there. *hugs*

          • Charlotte

            I’m lucky in that his rages, even when triggered by his brother (his baby sister is his favourite person in the world), are still only directed at me or his dad. Unlucky in that mostly they happen when his dad’s at work and I’m left to cop it alone. He does get physical.
            I’ve wondered if early adolescence might be playing a part. He has loads of empathy usually. It is like living with Jekyll & Hyde and leaves me unable to fully relax around him, which obviously doesn’t help things. It must be so hard for you with her being bigger (than my primary schooler) and it being directed at your younger children. Sorry.
            Hub is a teacher – he knows all about the popularity thing being a deciding factor and it pisses him off so much he deliberately stays away from being on boards etc.

            • EnthralledObserver

              None of my kids would dare go off on their Dad… he’d smack them down, and they know it. My kids generally yell and carry on at each other and me, but very rarely actually barge past me or sometimes accidentally hit me with a flying object they threw. My oldest only once has fought back at me (only recently) when I step in during her rage – especially when it is unfounded or violent toward her siblings. I usually squash it pretty quick and she is normally subservient to me, but that once she actually physically fought back. It would never have happened had my hubby been there… but, alas, he works away.
              My greatest weapon is my wooden smacking spoon… usually I only have to rattle the drawer it lives in. Unfortunately the oldest is past that kind of discipline. Reasoning works when she isn’t already angry, but only me physically stepping in works when she is.

            • Charlotte

              That’s great that she has that boundary at least, and that you have that to fall back on. I feel so much like my hands are tied, but like a weight is lifted having made a first step in admitting it’s happening. Which again is something I’d be denied as a $cilon.
              He went off today and my dad was around to witness it all, which normally would mean him yelling and leaving (his heart can’t take it, and mine can barely. Medically, not sentimentally), but I’ve asked for them to treat it the way they would a child diagnosed with a condition, which helped give us all extra patience. Barely.

            • EnthralledObserver

              My friend’s child used to have rages where my friend said her daughter was in her own world… couldn’t be reasoned with. It was as if she couldn’t even hear them. She kick the walls and throw stuff, etc. My friend works in childcare and suspected she was on the Austism spectrum. Very, very mild…. I never even knew she chucked tantrums like that, she only ever did it with her parents at home.
              They say a psychologist who recommended strategies for the child to implement when she feels like that, some advice for the parents on how they should handle her that was different from what they’d been doing, I think the girl took some anti anxiety medication of some sort for a while, don’t know if she still does. It seemed to help a lot. Definitely worth talking to some professionals… I’m sure they’ll be able to help.

            • Charlotte

              Thanks, EO. We’re hoping too.
              I hope you get some answers and resolutions too.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Yeah… my resolution is just a time thing. End of year 12… BRING IT ON! She can get her own place then… where no-one can bother her. When she’s 30 she can come back and apologise. hahahaha

            • Charlotte

              You have postulated, and so shall it be!

            • Ardent

              Is she also doing HSCs? That pressure can be huge!

            • EnthralledObserver

              No… she’s going to get an apprenticeship to become a Chef. She might get a school based traineeship if one comes up during this year so she can get a start on it…. but she’s NOT leaving school yet. She’s not mature enough I don’t think… despite what she thinks of herself. ;)

            • EnthralledObserver

              To answer you question better… she’ll just do her exams as normal… she’s not going to try to get into University.

            • Ardent

              Yes, I get it. Well, at least she does not have that monster on her back.
              Maybe try this. Take her to a quiet place. Tell her: “when you look into the mirror before you cut yourself, think how decent you are. Think how many people care for you. That blood won’t help you. You’ll just have another mess to deal with. Just look in the mirror and ask yourself if the ritual is really helping anything? That’s all honey. Now, do you want another coffee?”
              I would leave the ball in her court then, and NOT mention the pain she causes you or her father.
              Maybe that might help?
              : )

            • EnthralledObserver

              Thank you… it’s nice to have a bank of other things to try should this all continue. I hope I won’t have to use it… but it’s nice to know there is something else that might just make a difference should I need to try. :)

            • Ardent

              You are so very welcome. If I can ever help, just ask. You and your daughter will be in my thoughts. Now, I’d better get some sleep. So, goodnight, take care of yourself, and know hat out here in the aether someone is sending your family kind thoughts. Chat another day, Enthralled. Yours, Ardent.

            • Ardent

              Does he have a girlfriend? Has he been turned down? He may be having exceedingly powerful hormone surges. As a boy, I can tell you, these attacks can be so frustrating and overwhelming! You feel like a sexual God on one hand, and a feckless, awkward kid on the other. It is rough!

            • Charlotte

              Yes, I’ve suspected an early surge of hormones. He’s only 7.

          • Ardent

            I know a LOT about cutting. Keep an eye on it. I suppose you are close with the GP? I feel for you. Without any detail, I can suggest positive reinforcement might help curb the cutting. You have probably read up on the subject, so I won’t say more. Here are MASSIVE amounts of support. Cheers.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Hey, yeah… tried lots of reasoning with her about it. It seems to have lessened, and hasn’t happened in ages and when it had it was less frequent than before. I explained the link I noticed with her menstrual cycle so she understands why she might feel that way and to try to ignore it, because it is ‘hormonal’ not ‘real sadness’ – I don’t know if it’s the right thing or not… we just keep an eye on it and go with what works. Our latest strategy is that my hubby threatened to rub ‘Deep Heat’ into her cuts if she does it again. So far so good…
              She won’t talk to professionals about it, I tried to get her to. But hopefully it’s just the menstrual thing. I was thinking of trying the pill, I’ve heard that can help stabilise hormonal mood swings. *shrugs*.

            • Ardent

              Yes, I have heard the pill can have some benefits – but be very careful and consult first! Some girls get very weird on even a low dose. Perhaps you and your husband can discuss the problem with a GP or ideally a psychiatrist on your own to develop strategies? Trust me, I really know way more out cutting than I wish I did! I can say this: most likely she will stop, and come to regret those scars. I really feel for you.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Good advice – thanks!
              The scars really bother me :( I have freckles and her skin is soooo much nicer than mine ever was… milky, beautiful even tone… and she’s ruining it. Makes me mad and sad that she’s doing it. I don’t think she can comprehend how much she’s going to regret doing this to herself in the future.

            • Ardent

              Oh boy. What sorrow you must feel. Here’s a warm hug. We do have to let our children be separate persons, but consequences like that are hard to watch and endure. You will have to accept and see her beauty regardless of the signs of anguish, sadly. Boy, this is hitting close to home!

        • Ardent

          Oh, heavens, NEVER feel shame! That is an utter waste of our energy, and can only bring you down. Mental illness, however minor or severe is an illness, and you don’t see diabetics feeling ‘shame’. Be proud and hold your head up! Here comes another care package of support!

      • Ardent

        I went through minor hell with both of my teens, back when. Be of good cheer, they grow up and turn back into people!

        • EnthralledObserver

          At 30 years old, I have heard… there is light at the end of the tunnel. ;)

    • Couch_Incident

      Going through something similar. I wish you strength and peace.

      • Charlotte

        Thanks, Couch, and to you.

    • Ardent

      None of my business, of course, but has her extreme intelligence led her/him into poor study habits and boredom with school? This often happens. A very smart person, however, does have, in my opinion, a better chance with therapy, as it it not so difficult for that person to follow the often lateral thinking that therapy involves. You may be frustrated: often you need to try various therapists to allow your daughter or son to find the ‘right fit’, and that is essential. More power to you, and I hope it all woks out for all of you. Sincerest support.

      • Charlotte

        Thanks, Ardent. I posted publicly, so that makes it your business if you want it to be.
        He has good study habits, but probably wasn’t being as challenged as he needed to be last year, despite being given the work for the grade above. His teacher has grabbed him again this year to personally oversee giving him more to do. I do think it will help, but we’re reaching out now for further answers. We will definitely keep trying for the ‘right fit’. Thanks.

        • Ardent

          Thanks, Charlotte. Keep hunting for the right shrink. In my life, I have been very ably helped by both psychoanalysis ( the old couch thing, literally), and a wonderful face-to-face psychiatrist. It takes time, but works remarkably. All the very best.

    • Charlotte

      Thanks, again, for the compassionate responses. Very appreciative.
      Cheers.

    • Sanddancer

      Speaking as someone who has been in his shoes, what are his passions? What sorts of things does he enjoy doing? Finding some sort of structured activity for him outside of schooling could be the key — let him own a project of some sort, help him build confidence and also build a sense of responsibility.

      Ugh, this post was a lot more difficult to write than it should have been…going through some rough times myself, and this is dredging up memories that aren’t helping. At the same time, just trying to pass on some perspective from the other side. He’s frustrated and probably more than a bit anxious, and finding the cause of that should help a lot.

      • Charlotte

        Thank you for sharing your perspective with me. We’ve seen him blossom on the stage, which we nurture as the theatre is a big part of our household. I’ve thought that gym classes might be of benefit as well, as a way to channel excess energy and help him focus his strength and actions. He’s expressed an interest in magic, so I’m trying to encourage that as I feel that learning to keep practising and perfecting his routines will be a good lesson for him about not expecting everything to be perfect right away. If that makes sense. We are also hoping that counselling with an impartial party (as we do try and keep the lines of communication open at home) will help him. Help us all.
        I’m sorry that times have been hard for you. Being on these boards has caused a lot of memories I’d repressed to come bubble out. It answered for me where my Co$ fixation came from, but it’s also been difficult. I’m very grateful that you have been kind enough to help me. Please let me know if I can return the favour.
        Charlotte

    • Eclipse-girl

      (((HUGS)))
      We had different issues with our only child. But I have been there.
      Find a Therapist who all of you like and trust.
      If you feel hinky about anyone, LEAVE

      • Charlotte

        Thank you, it is a comfort to feel that we aren’t alone in these experiences. I’ve had many moments of late of feeling like a total failure, and it can be hard to find the fortitude to stay positive. A doctor we had referred to us is apparently not taking new patients for the rest of the year, so I’m still looking, but we’ll get there. I’ll definitely make sure we’re all comfortable.
        Thanks again for always being so uplifting on these boards. Just in general, I see you respond and upvote and spread a sense of kindness. Lovely.

        • Eclipse-girl

          It is very common for parents to blame themselves and start second guessing every decision they made. This happens more than one would realize. Hang in there.

          Individual and family therapy helped us a lot. Having my daughter just grow up was important, too. As intelligent as she was, she always seemed a couple years behind in maturity. Finally in her very late teen and early 20s she is getting caught up with her peers.

          This is for the long haul, and there will be ups and downs. Find people that you can talk to.. Have outlets for just you as parents because you will need them.

          It will get better, but that is going to take some time.

    • Missionary Kid

      This is not a criticism of you, but a general commentary.

      First, the question I ask myself when a child throws a tantrum (and that is what I call what you’re dealing with) is, what does the kid get out of it?

      The answer to that is usually control over the situation. But, I can hear people say, they’re out of control! I disagree. When they throw a tantrum, they get control over the situation because all attention is focused on them. The usual thing that we do is to try to ameliorate the situation. IMO, that’s not the way to go. If a kid throws a tantrum over the age of 4, it’s usually the adult’s problem.

      You will note that the tantrum doesn’t occur in front of any of their friends or (not usually) in public. It occurs around people who respond, be it with fear, compassion, or acquiescence. It is a means of controlling those around them. Emotionally, they have learned that to throw a tantrum not only lets them vent their anger, but it gets everyone around them involved with their drama.

      By removing yourself and any other people around them from their presence, it takes away their audience. For small children in a public place, they will do it because they know that you’ll be embarrassed. When my kids were in, say, a restaurant, I’d take them outside and let them scream. While they’re having their snit, regardless of their age, my advice is, don’t talk to them. They are looking for a reaction, and talking to them is a reaction, which they will feed off of to escalate. They want to upset you because they are upset.

      I’m going to be a sexist here and say that because women are more caring and nurturing, they actually encourage tantrums. By “making nice” or trying to talk things out, the tantrum only gets worse. That’s why it doesn’t happen when your hubby is around.

      Another tactic, if you sense they’re going to throw a tantrum is to ask them if they are. Since they’re in a contrarian state of mind, they’ll deny it, and, in an effort to make you wrong, won’t throw one. It also shows them that you’re wise to their tricks.

      If you can’t remove yourself physically from their presence, turn your back on them psychologically. They’ve got you trained to react. The tantrum is staged for you, and nobody else. Turn on the radio, read a book. Do something else.

      Once the tantrum is over, and they have thrown or damaged things, make them pick up/clean up their own mess. Warn them that the next time they do it, there will be consequences, and follow through.

      One of the reasons that I would suggest that cutting is taking place is that the child knows that having power over the family with tantrums is wrong. That is a very uncomfortable position for a child.

      When the tantrum is over, then talk to them about their behavior. No long speeches. Briefly, tell them how angry it makes you, and point out that while they’re trying to be an adult, they’re acting like a child. Let them know that you will start withdrawing privileges, such as TV, cell phone or computer usage, permission to go somewhere, etc, if the behavior occurs again. (It will because to get to that point, they’ve been pulling that shit for a long time, and they need to learn new ways of handling things). Make the punishment fit the crime AND FOLLOW THROUGH. Another tactic is to ask them what their punishment should be for their unacceptable behavior.

      You’ll also notice that they have been pulling their tantrums when you have other obligations. You feel trapped as well. They use that feeling against you. Next time they need something from you, tell them no, and ask them what they’re going to do for you in exchange.

      Remember that this advice is from some anonymous person posting on the internet. You didn’t pay for this advice, and I could well be some troll trying to mess up your life.

      I wish you the best.

      • Charlotte

        Thank you, Missionary Kid. Your advice is sound and much is what we’ve already been doing. Greatly appreciate your words and will keep them in mind. We’ve found denying him computer privileges – which we definitely stay firm on – to be the most effective way to show him consequences. We have also started consulting appropriate specialists.
        Charlotte

        • Missionary Kid

          I wish you best of luck. Thanks for the reply.

  • valshifter

    Monkey Nickers?