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Best Account of Life in Scientology? Jon Atack Makes the Case for Counterfeit Dreams

CounterfeitDreamsCoverJon Atack is the author of A Piece of Blue Sky, one of the very best books on L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology. He now has a new edition of the book out, and on Saturdays he’s helping us sift through the legends, myths, and contested facts about Scientology that tend to get hashed and rehashed in books, articles, and especially on the Internet.

This week, Jon sent us some thoughts about books written by people who had left Scientology and then described their experiences. We were pleased to see him single out for praise a book that we’ve also held in high esteem.

JON: There have been several excellent first-hand accounts of life in Scientology, starting in 1951, with Dr. Joseph Winter’s balanced (and exasperated) Doctor’s Report on Dianetics, which was commissioned by Art Ceppos, after he stopped publication of L. Ron Hubbard’s Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health, having realized that it was fraudulent (who ever heard of a publisher canning a best-seller?). Helen O’Brien’s Dianetics in Limbo is heart-rending. She headed the Hubbard organization during the Philadelphia ‘Doctorate’ Course, but only managed to find 38 people keen enough on Hubbard to attend. The description of her partner’s descent into suicide, because Hubbard’s ‘Tech’ failed to help him, is particularly disturbing.

In 1971, Cyril Vosper wrote his best-seller, The Mindbenders. Cyril became a good friend, after I left the cult, and he was consistently amusing and insightful. Robert Kaufman’s Inside Scientology gave the first account of OT III, back in 1972. I liked Margery Wakefield’s touching Road to Xenu, and I liked Margery too, when I met her, back in the 90s. She was about the most compassionate “Suppressive Person” I’ve ever met, and that is saying something, because so many are. Jenna Miscavige Hill’s Beyond Belief is a poignant account, which will surely melt most hearts — a seven-year-old girl abandoned in the Sea Org. It shows just how far off the wall the whole scam has become since her uncle, David Miscavige took over.

ScientologyMythbustingThere is a strangely consistent theme to these, and other, accounts — from 1951 to 2013, Dianetics and Scientology have offered the moon and stars, but delivered misery and humiliation, interspersed with the occasional euphoric high. I’ve just finished Jefferson Hawkins’ excellent Counterfeit Dreams, and, yes, I have heard it all before, but Jeff tells the story so well that even my jaded interest was piqued. It is the tale of a young hippie graphic artist who gave up the freewheeling lifestyle of the Summer of Love to join Hubbard’s navy, and ended up a cog in the dysfunctional Miscavige machine.

Jeff gives insight into the early Pubs Org in Edinburgh back in 1968, through its move to Copenhagen, and then his times building the only successful book campaign since Dianetics. It becomes clear that the reason for that success was avoiding the statpush management methods espoused by Hubbard. In fact, Jeff also had to ignore Hubbard’s marketing strategies almost entirely, and hire professionals who were untainted by the Management Technology.

It’s amusing to know that Jack Trout’s proposed campaign was shelved (he suspected the ‘religion angle’). Even though he co-authored Positioning: the Battle for Your Mind, which is the basic text of Hubbard’s own marketing system.

Without Jeff Hawkins, the boom of the 90s would probably never have occurred, and the rot that is now collapsing the cult would have started earlier. Jeff drove Hubbard books onto the New York Times’ best-seller list. It is no surprise to see that his endeavors were soon sabotaged, so the Ideal Orgs now bob like great empty ghost ships, because Miscavige cut the inflow of new public with his musical-chairs style of management. Add to that South Park (2005) and Anonymous (2008), and public recruiting is surely at a thirty year low.

The sadly usual tales of broken families, catastrophic marriages, insane punishments, and daily humiliation are all there, too. There are new and cruel punishments devised for the sadistic amusement of the new boss, including variants on Hubbard’s awful overboarding.

When Russell Miller returned from his first interview tour, he told me that he couldn’t believe that such intelligent people could become ensnared in such foolish ideas (he’d forgotten that he was talking to an ex-member!). Jeff Hawkins is yet another educated and well-informed spiritual seeker caught up in the vampiric clutch of Scientology. He gives an uncluttered and articulate account, which has the great benefit of being easy to read. By the end of the book, I really liked Jeff (he was also nice about my book, when I contacted him, so quid pro quo), and my heart was bleeding for the many victims of this crazy system. Hawkins, thankfully, understands that the 35 years he spent in the cult were not wasted, and that is heartening. He has digested the negative experience and turned it to good use, showing that even the most advanced system of zombification of all time can be overcome.

Jeff emphasizes the isolation that a departee feels, and goes on to thank the marvellous Chuck Beatty, who has helped so many former members to find their feet, and realize that rather than losing their immortality, they’ve actually gained their freedom. Best of all was his reconnection with his brother, which led to his brother escaping, too. This is an excellent account of life in the crazy nightmare that is Scientology. And there is yet more evidence of Miscavige’s chronic blame and his addiction to power, and, of course, his contempt for others, and his dreadful and cowardly violence. If you haven’t already read it, pick it up and you will be well rewarded.

Jefferson_HawkinsTHE BUNKER: We told Hawkins about Jon’s endorsement, and he sent us the following response…

 
JEFFERSON: Jon’s words are very kind and I’m glad he enjoyed Counterfeit Dreams and found it valuable in throwing some light on Scientology’s descent into madness. His Piece of Blue Sky was one of the first of the “forbidden” books that I read after leaving Scientology, and was instrumental in my beginning to peel off the onion layers of indoctrination. The question he raises, “how can good, intelligent people buy into this,” is central not only to the Scientology experience, but to any totalitarian fanaticism that believes that their “glorious” ends justify the most violent and abusive of means. Counterfeit Dreams was my effort to answer that question, and I think every one of the autobiographical books about the Scientology experience is another step towards understanding.

 
——————–

Scott Campbell and Big Blue

Part 3 of Karen de la Carriere’s interview with Scott Campbell — this time, he makes a run for it from Big Blue!

 

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on July 6, 2013 at 06:00

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If you’d like to help support The Underground Bunker, please e-mail our webmaster Scott Pilutik at BunkerFund@tonyortega.org

 

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  • Karen de la Carriere

    I know that many playing the video will feel it is incredulous that so many of us got duped into going back. It is hard to understand if you have not been IN it. Of course a lot of duplicitous promises are made of the betterment of conditions on return. All bogus. It always got worse on any return.

    John Travolta and Tom Cruise both departed for extended periods of time, but being the * trophy * showpieces. they were always lassoed or corralled back.

    There has always been an obsession to get a fleeing member back. Especially if he has not signed the 1″ thick docs to never reveal anything that goes on behind the fortresses.

    • Budd Fields

      What’s really incredible is that there are people who have escaped from L
      Ron Hubbard’s Scientology mind fuck yet still promote it . . .

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        Yeah…

        

Here is what I don’t get– The management is
        Miscavige’s problem, not Hubbard’s. The OT’s don’t really have superpowers but
        they are causitive individuals who realize their immortality. Clears don’t have
        increased IQ by one point per hour of auditing or perfect memory or no asthma,
        they are just in control of mental MEST. Other benefits you thought were
        promised are not promised in the way you thought– get word cleared on it.
        Hubbard said a lot of things that were postulates (paraphrase of Miscavige’s
        words from the TV interview years ago) and not to be taken as fact. Then there
        is the myth– OT3 is a myth. The Marcabian stuff is myth. Well, what’s left to
        promote?



        “It’s WOW, I mean, it’s like, WOW!!!” That’s what’s left to
        promote.

        • EnthralledObserver

          And IS all they promote. A ‘win’ in Indie speak is simply a realisation that any person might make at any point in their life when they get enough information. Simple… no woo woo, and no Marty auditing needed thank you very much!

          • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

            I must assume that what you describe is part of the Indie movement. I am any person. I get realizations with information. But I don’t see myself as someone who uses Hubbard tech. Marty sees himself as Indie. My OT3 friend who remains an Indie is as woo woo as an owl. I know that this is not the place to write essays or manifestos but based on your sentences I remain extremely suspicious of the Indie movement.

            • EnthralledObserver

              I probably wasn’t particularly clear – Indies attribute their ‘wins’ to Hubtard nonsense, I just think it’s a normal phenomenon that comes with maturity, experience and information. Everybody has ‘wins’ as Indies characterise them – which is different to what Hubtard promised – nobody has ‘wins’ as Hubtard characterised them.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Or in other words, the {tech} doesn’t do anything!

            • FistOfXenu

              I’ve renamed it “The Dreck”. As in “The Golden Age of Dreck II”.

            • richelieu jr

              Oh I got you, Captain EO, loud and clear!

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Bwahahaha.

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              Thanks for the further explanation, Enthralled. Sometimes I jump to unreasonable conclusions.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Show me a decade, any decade, where woowoo wasn’t sold and bought. It’s a multi billion $ industry today because the various woowoo factions coalesced. Now you can get permanent makeup applied, a face or butt lift, your neck bones cracked, your green algae smoothie, your blood chelated, your complete supplement product supply, and every kind of omg contraption on the market all at your local “Wellness Center”.

              The problem the Indies have is that Hubbard’s WooWoo is anicent history and not marketable, even to the dedicated WooWoo customer database.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              They are like the Amish woowoos of the sci-fi generation.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              But the Amish have real world skills, and there is no OSA, PI’s or Squirrel Busters in the Rumspringa. Also, no ethics folders back at the farm!

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Minor details, you meanie. 😉

              I once saw a buggie being pulled by a horse and it had undercarriage, neon lighting. This is when I googled and learned what rumspringa ia

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Would love That picture! Teenagers. Whatcha gonna do? Don’t they have a short time period, though for the rumspringa? I mean, it seems like it would be far too short an adjustment period for so much, well new and shocking. Also, is there any rum in it?

            • Verve

              Here you go Hole, a vid of a buggy with ground effect lights.

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJupuXID2kU

            • Noah Miller

              The Amish do have a good deal of shunning. They keep much of their beliefs confined to those in command. While some of the aspects of their beliefs are looked on as admirable they are a fairly backwards society that ostracizes anyone in the group who decide that the life is not for them. There’s a pretty strong parallel between shunning and disconnection.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              True that, about the shunning.

            • Missionary Kid

              Yeah, but the Amish do have their form of disconnection. It varies from person to person and sect to sect, but it’s there to force community.

              Their real world skill as far a work ethic are good, but their skills at doing things that we take for granted in our modern lives suck.

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              Well put. Where is Houdini when you need him? Hey, maybe he came back from the dead as James Randi.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              hahaha. that’s funny.

            • loulai

              Rathbun says he no longer calls himself a Scientologist. He is a seeker who is open to other points of view.

          • Zana

            I have had sooooo many Wins since I have left Scientology! Wow. And if I stopped to just write them down then I, too, would have a wall full of wins. The BIG win is GETTING OUT! And now, realizing, how hocus pocus this all is… compare it to a REAL scientist like Bruce Lipton talking about Quantum Physics… well… it makes all of Scientology look like what it is… a jail for school kids who want to understand the miraculous.

            And the miraculous is always just that… miraculous. We have to LIVE it in order to understand it. And it cannot be controlled. It can only be loved.

            • lightblb62

              “And the miraculous is always just that… miraculous. We have to LIVE it in order to understand it. And it cannot be controlled. It can only be loved.”

              VERY nicely said. For those who haven’t seen the film “I AM”… ya’ll might want to do so.

            • Zana

              I’m going to watch it today. Thanks!!

    • Truthiwant

      That part, numbered point 9, is truly something unreal!

      It is almost a document of admission to what Scientology is really all about.

      Any person reading between the lines on that point no.9 would immediately think:

      “What the hell are these people hiding? Waive my right to The First Amendment? OH MY GOD!!”

      • sugarplumfairy

        Is it legal?

        • 0tessa

          Can’t be, can it?

          • sugarplumfairy

            We’ll have to wait ’til the attorneys wake up..

            • Bella Legosi

              When the church is hemorrhaging money out of all its orifices……….then will the lawyers wake up! But someone must gut the trout to get the scent in the water first!

            • Missionary Kid

              Great imagery!!!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              I had a bit of an aha moment, always learning useful information at WWP, about the Who’s Who list of attorneys scientology has used. When you read this, you will understand there’s a great deal of power in this list, and I won’t even try to go into the lobbyists who were/are lawyers.

              http://whyweprotest.wikia.com/wiki/Scientology_lawyers_%28all%29

              And lest we forget, Fred Goldberg Jr who was such a big help in the scientology IRS sweet deal is very active in tax law matters in Washington DC including matters that protect non profits.

              http://www.skadden.com/professionals/fred-t-goldberg-jr

            • Poison Ivy

              There’s something very shady with that Goldberg fellow. I don’t entirely believe Marty when he claims he and DM simply promised to stop the lawsuits to get what they wanted.

        • Truthiwant

          I have no idea but if you sign something then it is supposed to mean that you agree with it. I can bet that the Scientology lawyers would make you pay dearly if you uttered a word after having put your signiture to it.

          • sugarplumfairy

            But is it even legal for someone to ask you to sign away your rights as a US citizen? omg, I wanna smack a big being right now..

            • Truthiwant

              Dunno.

              Waive one’s rights! Sounds like an odd thing to do.

              It’s not just as a US citizen. It says to waive one’s rights in any nation of the world.

              Hey, when’s the next shuttle to the moon leaving? Give me a single ticket, please.

            • sister wendy

              really weird, isn’t it? I think it has something to do that in Sci-bot land we are taught from the very beginning that the WOG world is stupid, ineffective and will never provide an authentic justice for you. All politics are dubious, all governments are ineffective at best. So, you don’t “need” it, do you? Any protection and rights that come from Them are minimized, but everyone knows that Sci-bot Land is the only place that has a handle on justice. I know this is nuts- but it’s what goes on. And when you’re in it, you find your self agreeing and saying stupid things like when TC said we are the only ones who can help.

            • Bella Legosi

              You could win a trip to the Moon with Big Being #2! I wonder if statutes concerning assault have jurisdiction on the moon?

            • Phil McKraken

              It’s not so much a question of whether it’s legal to ask someone to sign it or not as whether it’s an enforceable, or an unconscionable, contract.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Lol.. Right now I can’t get the picture of a sign in front of a nice, professional law office that reads Phil McKracken, Esquire..

            • Phil McKraken

              My firm is Dewey, Cheetum & Howe.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Can’t top that.. =)

            • Semper Phi

              In my hometown there was an attorney named Stephen Costley. No joke.

            • Robert Eckert

              Then there’s Doolittle & Waite

            • sister wendy

              that’s great:) I have a skin doctor who cuts off my moles called Dr. Hard Knife (Schwermesser)

            • Robert Eckert

              I had a wisdom tooth extracted by a Dr. Bonk

            • Bella Legosi

              lol I had a Dr. Plunkett

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              German teach in H.S. was Herr Dryer.

            • FistOfXenu

              Catholics might remember that yrs ago there was a cardinal called Cardinal Sin.

            • Bella Legosi

              I was subpoenaed by a DUI lawyer named Jared Justice once.

            • sugarplumfairy

              I know a gastroenterologist named Warren Butt.. girl scout’s honor..

            • FistOfXenu

              Mine is Flywheel, Shyster, and Flywheel. 😉

            • Robert Eckert

              Mine is Billings, Billings, Moore & Moore

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Ah, Click and Clack. Too bad they’re off the air now.

            • Missionary Kid

              I have dated women named Sue Wood, Mary Will, and Sherri Cann. After she dated me, Sue dated a guy named Brook Trout. He had a twin brother named Lake.

              I was in the service with a guy named Paris Frantz.

            • FistOfXenu

              Good question. I wanna know this too.

          • sister wendy

            they certainly make you think that….

        • sister wendy

          It doesn’t seem like it would be, does it?

          • EnthralledObserver

            I suspect it has limits, i.e. if you tell of criminal behaviour they can’t enforce it… but that’s just me plucking logic and hazy recollections of similar stories out of the air.

            • sister wendy

              What would have been really helpful would have been to have something else nearby to give you a second think. Even when you give your passport up, there is someone asking you, making sure you know what you are giving up….here, there is just that inner ear whispering” sign, sign”

            • EnthralledObserver

              I find it incredible that CO$ taking and locking away one’s passport is at all legal… is it?

            • sister wendy

              no- but they do it anyway and people agree and let them do it

            • EnthralledObserver

              I don’t know what they tell them why they want/need to… do you? Is it to keep it {safe}?

            • sister wendy

              keep it safe, you don’t need it now, we will look after it, it’s the rules when you work here, but don’t worry, you will get it back when you need it….just think: Jews getting onto a train to make a “trip” somewhere,or young girls from Eastern Europe looking to come to the US for work….coercion is an amazing historical phenomenon that has been happening for centuries- well for as long as beings have been trying to control each other. I mean, look at Xenu- how do you think he got us all in those volcanoes?

            • EnthralledObserver

              Oh yes… the volcanoes… I’ll never live that down, what a bad decision I made ‘that’ day. :p

            • sister wendy

              I know, right? I mean, what were we thinking? We should have just all gone for a burger;)

            • Bella Legosi

              So, my question is………..Why didn’t Xenu use the volcano on Mars? The one that damn near goes into space? There was plenty of room………..just saying

              😉

            • sister wendy

              Xenu was aware according to Mormon doctrine, Adam already had dibs on that one.

            • Bella Legosi

              Ok! I have another question!

              If Xenu was this uber smart, evil, mastermind, wouldn’t he have thought…….”Will the souls of the beings I blow up land into the man monkeys?” lol Which makes me wonder WTheF he even choose earth in the first place?!?!?!?!?!

              Are you starting to see why I never got into religion? 😀

            • EnthralledObserver

              I think the point was that that was Xenu’s (Hubtards) intention… the continual slog around the live, die, live, die circle, trapped and unaware. I don’t really understand why though… because wouldn’t the ‘thetans’ take up less space and so therefore how could Xenu have a ‘population problem’ in the first place?

            • EnthralledObserver

              I tell you… there are plot holes all over this fucker of a story!

            • sister wendy

              I collect potential T-shirt slogans- and that is the best one so far today: There are plot holes all over this fucker of a story;) That’s great.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Happy to help… 🙂

            • FistOfXenu

              This works for this too

            • sister wendy

              that’s great. Is that yours? One of Observers?

            • FistOfXenu

              You’re not listening guys! I didn’t do it! I’m telling you Hubbard made up the whole story so he could pin his evil crimes on me.

            • Robert Eckert

              The battlefieldspork guy (Nathan Johnson) put it once, “The story does not so much have plot holes, as tenuous wisps of plot struggling to cohere in a shrieking void.”

            • Bella Legosi

              I know…….I am really kidding around with Bella Logic…..but it really is questions like this that turn me off of all organized religion. It usually ends with the sentence: “You just have to have faith!”

            • EnthralledObserver

              Or…as I prefer: “Just go with it.” I suspect this is what most Scilons do.

            • sister wendy

              I think if people give you that answer they really just don’t know what to say to whatever you’ve asked or have an issue about. Or they really really want you to have the same passion they do for their idea or belief. Remember- most people are so wound up with their own lives and looking for safety- as soon as we find something we think works, it’s safe harbors and “all aboard”. They found something that works for them, and they can’t always articulate or answer other questions….or like in Sci-bot land, we ignore them;)

            • Bella Legosi

              That is the impression I get when ever a convo gets that far. I walk away happily agreeing to disagree, or attempt to! I haven’t gotten into it intensely with my mother in a year or so, but I think she finally has come to terms with my ways and I am starting to accept hers.

            • Missionary Kid

              A friend of mine used to say, “You just have to have faith — Sydney J. Faith, Private Detective.”

            • Whoknew

              Didn’t the thetans have bodies before they were blown up? And now they’re sort of floating around homeless. That’s why they started invading human bodies, right? Hey, maybe some day a dictator on Earth will shuttle us to another planet and repeat (this time we’ll get alien bodies!). We’ll be on an eternal planet loop.

            • Missionary Kid

              You can go there now, just get out your credit card.

            • Whoknew

              If I have to pay to be blown up in a volcano, I’ll get a ticket to Hawaii.

            • sister wendy

              I think you must have been George Carlin in another life;)

            • Bella Legosi

              lol why thank you!

              Although my tastes are more classic! I prefer to be the reincarnation of Lenny Bruce!

            • sister wendy

              haha! I was thinking of the skit when Carlin is in “confession” and asking the priest if he’s committed a sin because he couldn’t get to mass, because he’s at sea, and so misses a service, but then crosses the international date line, so maybe the day doesn’t count;) Lenny Bruce is great.

            • Bella Legosi

              This actually shoved me into the atheist side of things when I first saw it and damn it is too freaking true!

              http://youtu.be/8r-e2NDSTuE

              Juila Sweeny’s “Letting Go of God” is really amazing! A real look at how religious wandering and thought led her to become Atheist. I gotta hand it to her, it was great!

              http://youtu.be/geRUTfgTQlo

            • sister wendy

              I’ll take a look a bit later- house full of grieving relatives today….thanks

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Oh no, your mother passed?

            • sister wendy

              not yet- she’s on hospice. I closed my projects down and and flown out to care for her. She’s been close for 4 years- and is now somehow in her final weeks. We have a small, but close family and everyone is already in grief…brother and sis- in-law just arrived. Full house, lots of tears- and laughter… and guess what? She wants to watch Jack Reacher;)

            • DeElizabethan

              My heart <3 to you sister Wendy. I know Hospice and the good work they do. I'm a Hospice volunteer for events. They were with us when my mate passed and they made it much easier. Also they have wonderful counseling for the family afterwards. I recently, after 4 years gave my mate's best clothes I kept, to their Thrift outlet. I truly have you in my heart at this time and always. My mother also had Hospice care many years ago and I was very impressed with their compassion and grace.

            • sister wendy

              thank you so much for the support and kind words DE. That makes me smile. We do love our hospice nurse. I think the volunteers start coming in the next week. My mom has a different kind of hospice program. She belongs to a medical group called Kaiser, which is in California. It’s a little like a medical factory, but so far, the people are nice.

            • Bella Legosi

              Sorry to hear…….whenever is clever!

            • Missionary Kid

              Bruce without the {happy ending} – sarcasm font.

            • Bella Legosi

              *nods in agreement*

            • FistOfXenu

              I knew there was something special about you. Do you still remember all your old schticks? I’d love to hear them again.

            • Bella Legosi
            • Bella Legosi

              😀 I wuv my Lenny
              http://youtu.be/gDkoCtMOFOg
              The greatest self taught lawyer ever! *shakes fists in air* Damn you archaic laws and morphine!
              http://youtu.be/CXiPpud_oHI

            • FistOfXenu

              Thank you! This is 1 of my favorites by him. I mean, by you. 🙂

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Stop thinking so much and just have faith. You gotta have Faith Faith Faith babeh. Yeah, I went there.

            • FistOfXenu

              I deny it! I deny it all! I was framed! It’s Hubbard you want! Do it to him! Do it to Hubbard not me!

              Oh wait. Sorry, I got confused. But I am innocent! Hubbard did it all and then mocked it all up and blamed me.

            • sister wendy

              hahahaha

        • Bella Legosi

          Are billion year contracts legal?

          These documents should prove with out a doubt Co$ has A LOT TO HIDE!

          • monkeyknickers

            They are not.

            But even if they were: screw them. It’s a piece of paper.

            Or a plank of paper as Karen mentioned above. 🙂

          • sister wendy

            haha! doesn’t that just make you laugh when you think about it? I mean, can a billion year contract actually exist? Doesn’t this remind you of those businesses promising to take care for your pet after you go up in the Rapture?;)

            • Bella Legosi

              lol I actually kinda understand the “Billion year” contracts. If you believe in reincarnation and the religion is set up like a business, I see that as a smart “business” move. What makes me laugh/chuckle is the enforcement of such a contract!

              However, they do get down right offensive. When I read that SO members who die while in the SO, get “22” years “lib”, I really really wished a bolt of lightening would strike whomever said it!

            • FistOfXenu

              I wanna see S.O. prove that somebody’s the new body of somebody else that signed the contract and then died. That’d be funny to watch. I’ll bring the Guinness – anybody got popcorn?

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              Any day now, I am expecting Hubbard to zero in on the big Kool cigarette logo seen from the air, reclaim one of his hundreds of offices, and continue on with OTIX. I wonder if Little Boots seriously contemplates this.

            • FistOfXenu

              Any day now I’m expecting His Oiliness to announce that he’s had some kind of data from Liar Ron Humbug that he’s not coming back.

              And on that subject could the Demented Midget be that much of a true believer that he expects LRH back?

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              The more I think about it, the more I become convinced that he HAS to be a true believer. He is certainly not intelligent enough to run the scam without that belief.

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              “businesses promising to take care for your pet after you go up in the Rapture”
              never encountered that one before!

            • Missionary Kid

              Whenever someone is convinced that the world is going to end on a particular date, I offer to give them $ for their car now, with the title signed over to me and dated the day after the event .

            • richelieu jr

              Can I have you records (and your girlfriend after you are gone?

            • Bella Legosi

              Here is a joke I heard on the 4th:

              A couple have a dog and it dies. They take the dog to a priest and ask, “Could you give my dog a funeral?” The preist looks at them and shakes his head, “No, we don’t do that sort of burial.” The man looks at the priest and says, “I got $3,000.” To which the Priest replied, “Why didn’t you tell me your dog was a Catholic?”

              Prolly should have posted that yesterday, but it popped back into my head when I read your post!

            • Gerard Plourde

              Great joke. I’ve got one a priest told a couple of weeks ago (I originally heard it when I was a kid in Catholic school).
              Junior is failing math in public school. In desperation, Mom enrolls him in Catholic school. The first day he comes home from school, goes up to his room quietly and stays there doing his homework, barely coming down for dinner. To Mom’s surprise this goes on for the whole marking period. He brings home his report card and is passing math. Mom can no longer contain herself and asks, “What caused the change son? The discipline, the uniforms?” Son replies, “No Mom. When I saw the guy nailed to the plus sign at the front of the room, I knew they weren’t kidding.”

            • Bella Legosi

              lol good one!

            • stillgrace

              Here’s a true life cross joke. When my son was about four, Mr. Grace and I were in a resort town, wandering in and out of little shops, with our son tagging along. We ended up in a shop with quite a collection of crucifixes, some very large and elaborate. In this quiet, reverent shop, my son pipes up in his loudest voice: “Look, Mom! Isn’t that JEEEzus H. CHRIST??!!!”

            • Gerard Plourde

              Priceless!

            • Missionary Kid

              Hey, $cions not only have the plus, but the times sign on theirs. Too bad LRH was bad at math.

            • Poison Ivy

              Didn’t he say “math is a myth” or some such nonsense?

            • Missionary Kid

              I think he did, but Googling the quote got me to this JW site, where they base their attack on LRH’s lies and base it on A Piece of Blue Sky, the L.A. Times article, Bare Faced Messiah, and Messiah and Madman.

              I didn’t bother reading much of it, and on a cursory view, I couldn’t find the quote, but leave it to one cult to have the knock on another. http://www.watchman.org/sci/lrhmyth2.htm

            • Remy

              He said calculus was a lie

            • sister wendy

              the guy organizing it made a load of money. It was priceless

            • Robert Eckert

              {Yeah, but he’ll be so sorry when the Rapture happens!}

            • sister wendy

              cuz he’s left cleaning up the dog poop….;)

            • sister wendy

              http://www.aftertherapturepetcare.com/ just for you and your entertainment…..

            • sister wendy
            • PreferToBeAnon2

              Oh. My. God!

          • FistOfXenu

            Probably {legal} but definitely not sane.

      • Gerard Plourde

        The amazing and truly evil thing is the way Scientology twists anything in order to hide its true nature. The language in paragraph 9 is nefarious but on casual inspection would not raise alarm bells because of its surface similarity to agreements that are drafted to protect trade secrets and intellectual property (As a legal principal, a contract between parties can contain language that limits constitutional rights, so long as the contract is not an agreement to engage in illegal activity and so long as the waiver is made knowingly and intelligently). And although in the long run a court would most likely find it unenforceable because it seeks to cover too much, the cost of litigation would effectively prevent many people from challenging it.

        • Missionary Kid

          “The cost of litigation” is key to Co$ silencing its critics. Great point.

        • richelieu jr

          They may seem that way to a lawyer or someone versed int his stuff, but to most human beings that should set off alarm bells.. It is like the ‘Do not mock Happy FUn ball’ sketch on SNL..

          If there was toy you were buying that said ‘I waive my rights to sue or be reimburcsred fo any lss of income life andd limb, ecpecially gettingmy etes gouged out by flying knives, shrapnel or acid..” I might think twice aboutt he toy…

          Here they say simultaneously ‘*cientology will improve your life, youl’l make mor emoney than going to colege you’ll have super powers (BTW if you don’t, fuck you, don’t breathe a xword of this, youa re no longer human being let alone an AZmerican with legal rights..)

          I persoannly am AMAZED by how ;lmitte effort they make to sugzarcoar-t the whole scam.. I brought this up tot he star of a documenaray I made on Con Men who said (this is cut an paste, now folks)

          “(my name redacted) that’s what makes you the mark, the chump, the loser, see? This si what we were talli,ng about with the child molesters and their parents. You don’t wanna waste your scam on someone who is gonna wake up 10 minutes ina and say, Hey waitta minnute!

          • richelieu jr

            Sorry folsk, the cut n’ paste seems to ahve crashed the ipad… more later, but his point was that kiddy fiddlers and other scam artists test their victims to find the one who won’t complain and are easiest roolled, and part of the scam is giving thema reallly stupid thing to swallow up front. After that, you knw they’re gullible.. IF you brusha young girl’s arma nd she tells daddy, you can say it was an accident and find one whose daddy isn’t around. IF you want to rip someone off,tell them a story that doesn’t hold up to 2m of scrutiny,a nd if they bitenit, then you can start to bleed them dry..

            • Missionary Kid

              I had my decoder ring on, so I understood what you were writing.

            • richelieu jr

              Sheesh, you’re made from pretty sturdy stuff, MK!

              I’m home now and briefly on my laptop… I’m wondering is I should let the mess stay for history’s sake, erase the whole thing, or clean it up when I get home later tonight..

              Discus and iPads are a nasty mix,a nd on top of the the English spell check won’t work…

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Nice try blamin’ it on the Ipad. You still got an electronic incident happening on the laptop too.

            • richelieu jr

              After LapTop, I’m gonna blame booze and not the computer!

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Your a natural clear! Congrats.

          • Gerard Plourde

            “They may seem that way to a lawyer or someone versed int his stuff, but to most human beings that should set off alarm bells.. It is like the ‘Do not mock Happy FUn ball’ sketch on SNL..”

            The truly scary thing is that most of us (even lawyers) are naturally inclined to have our eyes glaze over when presented with long contracts. It takes training and will-power to actually read through it and understand it. Imagine how difficult that is in the setting where these contracts are actually signed – with staff badgering the fish about to be hooked.

            • richelieu jr

              I shudder to think, GP..

      • FistOfXenu

        “What the hell are these people hiding?”

        But if they’ve been in a while they should already know the answer shouldn’t they?

        • Truthiwant

          I think it’s a sort of

          “I know but I don’t know and I don’t want to know because if I do know, I don’t know what to do about knowing what I should have known but never wanted to know because no one I know knew anything more than I knew and they didn’t want to know either and anyway if I knew about knowing then I wouldn’t know what to do anyway.”

          I think that’s pretty clear, no?

          Hey, I think I sound a bit like Hubbard in that!

          • PreferToBeAnon2

            I know!

          • Robert Eckert

            Rumsfeld famously distinguished the “known unknowns” from the “unknown unknowns” (the things you don’t know that you don’t know) but I guess he missed the category of the “unknown knowns”, the things you don’t know that you know.

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              I didn’t know that.

            • Truthiwant

              Now please don’t start again…..else…you kno…..

            • FistOfXenu

              Maybe PTBA knows what you know about what she doesn’t know but some of us don’t. Could you share your knowingness of PTBA’s knowingness of your knowingness of her not-knowingness? I mean, just so we know.

            • Truthiwant

              I think we’ve cleared Knowingness.

              Anybody want to start on Beingness and Havingness now?

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              I posted this late last night, so I don’t think many saw it:

              http://www.isnessismybusiness.org/Site/Welcome.html

            • Truthiwant

              Sounds like it comes straight out of Scientology. However, what a stupid title for a business.

          • Marie Claire Wolf

            The knowingness of knowing that you don’t know what they know you know. How am I doing with Co$ speak?

            • Truthiwant

              When you are clearing a word in Scientology, you have to give various phrases to the supervisor to show that you understand that word and only then you are given a pass

              So, Marie. Pass!

          • FistOfXenu

            But we can help you with that. Just take your credit card down the hall to the Regging Officer.

          • Missionary Kid

            Unfortunately, I understood what you wrote, and it makes sense. It is the perfect illustration of the mind of the true believer.

            • Truthiwant

              Lesson number 1

              You want them to believe..then confuse them.

            • Missionary Kid

              COB is the essence of a person spreading confusion.

            • FistOfXenu

              Yup. Perfect illustration. But not Hubbard-speak because MK and the rest of us understood it.

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            I’m etching this into a titanium plate immediately.

    • Bella Legosi

      “construed” as rights?????

      Disturbing. Just disturbing!

      • FistOfXenu

        Rights are just an “agreed upon apparency” that creates a false reality. In the cult crazy, nobody has rights.

        • Bella Legosi

          Red Flag #……I lost count!

    • Damian DeWitt

      I want to thank you, Karen, for your video project. I am learning so much and it is a pleasure to get to know people like Geir Isene through videos after admiring him and observing his journey out of Scientology over the last few years.

      Keep up the good work.

    • Poison Ivy

      “I know that many playing the video will feel it is incredulous that so many of us got duped into going back. It is hard to understand if you have not been IN it. Of course a lot of duplicitous promises are made of the betterment of conditions on return. All bogus. It always got worse on any return.”

      They say this about battered wives (and kids) too. “Why did you go back?” Sometimes the devil you don’t know is more frightening than the one you do. And you WANT to believe, don’t you? You are chasing that “first high” of when you believed you had found true happiness.

      Listening to the stories on this blog teaches us to be compassionate and not judge others who get involved in situations like this. We can all put on our denial blinders when we desperately want to believe things; when we feel our whole world will fall apart if what we suddenly see that the emperor has no clothes.

      Keep up the great work Karen – you are on fire, girl!

      • Missionary Kid

        The parallel to battered wives is perfect.

        • sister wendy

          yes! I’m sure it’s the same or related behavior description. Great description Ms PI!

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Throw in a little Stockholm Syndrome, and pump up the Battered Wife syndrome with steroids, and that gets you a little closer to it.

      • pronoia

        Robert Vaughn Young wrote about this parrallel before he died and I would recommend it to anyone who just can’t wrap their head around why people stay and why they go back;

        http://www.lermanet.com/cos/mindcontrolmodel.htm

        • PreferToBeAnon2

          You found it! I was just going to go looking for that. RVY is a hero in my book… such a shame we lost him. There were some video depositions of him that were fantastic.

          • pronoia

            He was amazing. And I know he would be so happy to see how far things have come. He had incredible courage and was filled with compassionate wisdom at the same time.

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              A lot of the pioneers have passed on or have passed the baton to folks like Claire, Marc, Jenna, etc. –folks like RVY, Stacey Brooks, Amy Scobee… Tony should do a tribute to them sometime. I’d like to hear what they think of the current scene.

            • Poison Ivy

              Great idea for a post, Tony! 😉

        • noseinabk

          From RVY.

          “The first time I saw the parallel between my own experiences in the cult

          of Scientology and battered women was when I was reading “Captive Hearts,
          Captive Minds,” which is an excellent book. It was in the Intro or maybe
          the first chapter that they cited and quoted the singer Tina Turner who
          had been in an abusive relationship for something like 10 or 15 years. She
          remarked how being with Ike Turner was like being in a small cult. The
          remark jumped off the page at me. Given the success of Tina Turner as an
          entertainer, one is not prone to say she is a stupid woman but there she
          was in a marriage where she was beaten constantly and yet she stayed. When
          she finally escaped, as she tells her story, it was after a beating that
          left her head so swollen that she couldn’t put on a wig. She wrapped her
          head in a scarf and fled, taking no money or anything and finally got away
          from Ike Turner.

          One wonders how often she has been asked since, “Tina, you’re such a
          talented woman, so intelligent, how could you stay with a man for 10/15
          years who was beating you?” Maybe she has an answer in her autobiography.
          I don’t know. It is on my to-read list. But I know she was asked that
          question. Every woman who escapes a man who has been beating them must get
          that question and it is probably the hardest one in the world to answer.
          After all, it’s not that you don’t KNOW you’re getting beaten. And it
          didn’t happen just once. Nor twice. It happens week after week, month
          after month, year after year.

          Nor are these women locked up. The husband goes off to work, for example,
          and she has a car. She gets in the car and she goes to the store, buys
          food, and brings it home, to the very place where she is being beaten and
          she makes dinner. She doesn’t keep driving. SHE COMES BACK. To what? More
          abuse.”

          This is the most insightful explanation I have seen to date.
          Thanks for the link Pronoia.

          • Poison Ivy

            Great quotes.

            By the way – and on this subject; i.e. the idea that coercive mind control and manipulation can be as powerful as a gun to the head – I really think Bunkerites will get a lot out of this documentary: NEFARIOUS, MERCHANT OF SOULS…which is all about sex trafficking. It goes in depth into the mind control and soul-killing techniques used to control trafficked girls. The weapons – fear, mind games and the systematic destruction of any semblance of self-esteem in the women. (Warning to atheists – it gets a little heavy on the God/Jesus/Prayer stuff at the very very end, but that doesn’t take away from its power.)
            Buying the doc sends money to help support Safe Houses around the world that rescue and rehabilitate victims of sex trafficking.

            http://nefariousdocumentary.com

    • Robert Eckert

      Thank you Karen for all your work to make this comprehensible to outsiders. One of their greatest weapons is the sheer incredulity “they couldn’t possibly be trying to get away with THAT, could they?”

    • FLUNK_101

      “it is incredulous that so many of us got duped into going back. It is hard to understand if you have not been IN it.”

      I hear you, Karen.
      Jon Atack talked about the “misery and humiliation.” It was very astute of him to include, “interspersed with the occasional euphoric high.”

      These euphoric experiences, “blow-outs” or “wins” or used to gain your trust.
      It happens, and it ‘s a huge part of the con. It tells you deep inside that you’ve found it!
      Please, let’s not explain it away by saying that just about anything can make you happy …
      Euphoria is a state of mind which goes much deeper than your conscious thought. And the subconscious mind does not distinguish between fantasy and reality, at least not the way the conscious mind does. This euphoric experience, in the future, will become an influence on your intuitive thought processes. Your intuition will tell you this is a good thing.
      Just look at all the trouble drug addicts go through, just to get high. If only they were that disciplined and dedicated in other areas of their life! They would be very successful.
      But that’s what happens when something co-opts your mind from the bottom up. When your own intuition is telling you Scientology is the way to go, you’re “in.”

      • Missionary Kid

        Yes, you had “wins,” but what was the overall result? You got so focused on them that you lost sight of the damage Co$ was wreaking in the rest of your life, just like an addict.

        That’s why people make fun of your “wins” and disbelieve them. They are a part of the mechanism of denial.

        • FLUNK_101

          I left Scientology over thirty years ago, and I left a lot sooner than a lot of other people on this blog. If you want to make fun of me for that, go ahead. I ‘m just trying to explain how this “con” was able to gain my confidence, if only for a few years. As far as “wins” go, it sounds like you’re the one in denial, not me.

          • EnthralledObserver

            If I am, in your opinion, unclear of what a ‘win’ is, then please enlighten me. Please describe what you believe one is, and then follow that up with a couple of examples of your own real life wins… in the effort of making sure I truly understand what you mean when you say you had ‘wins’.

          • Missionary Kid

            I’m not making fun of your leaving.

            My response has more to do with your past angry statements directed towards others. You haven’t bothered to respond to me before.

            I’m wondering why you’re so defensive about anyone questioning your emphasis on the “wins.” Yes, they are euphoric, internal, postive events, but it seems to me that you’ve made it a point to get angry at anyone questioning them. I believe they question your wins because you ignore the cost to the rest of your life. Correct me if I’m wrong.

            I’m glad that you’re actually responding, but I would describe your behavior here as usually reasonable, but then, it seems a switch is flipped and you turn into the worst kind of angry, juvenile troll. That behavior is, I believe, beneath you, and I’m asking you to explain why.

            • FLUNK_101

              Thanks for characterizing me as an “angry juvenile troll.” Isn’t a troll is someone who irritates, or people or tries to disrupt the discussion? If I am explaining my personal experiences in Scientology, and someone goes ad hominem on me, who’s the troll?
              Any time I got angry or used bad language, I was only responding to ACTUAL angry and juvenile trolls that cyberbully me on this blog.
              There have been times when (various) people have harassed me relentlessly. And they never apologize. I may have lashed out, but I’ve also apologized as well.
              Recently I left the blog for 16 days, because of ONE person. I know she doesn’t agree with me, but she just couldn’t leave me alone. It was like one long ad hominem attack. It made me sick.
              I like to be reasonable, but some people on the of seem to think I’m a beast with no feelings, to be tormented. Getting angry is my way of reminding these creeps that I am a real person with real feelings.

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              “Getting angry is my way of reminding these creeps that I am a real person with real feelings.”

              And there is your answer MK, SPF. You know that you are not the *real creeps* he is talking about.

            • Robert Eckert

              No, on no occasion have you been responding to trolls or bullies. You need to develop some self-awareness. Your lashing-out episodes are disproportionate to anything anybody has ever said to you, and your efforts to assign blame elsewhere are just blocking you from dealing with your internal problems.

            • Missionary Kid

              I agree with you, Robert.

            • FLUNK_101

              That’s an ad hominem attack. You are saying there’s something wrong with, and based on that, what I say is wrong.
              That’s the same as SPF saying or implying that I’m still “in”: based on that, what I say about Scientology is must be wrong, because, supposedly, I’m still brainwashed. How is that different from calling me an idiot, over and over again?
              It’s amazing that you don’t pick up on this, but being bullied is no joke. I hope someday you understand.

            • pronoia

              It is interesting that you keep bringing up the word “bullying” to describe these interactions. And because of that, I imagine you really have been bullied in your life and for that I am very sorry.

              But i do not see bullying here. Mostly I see people who are genuinely concerned about you and trying to reach out in a caring and loving way. Even people who are angry and upset about your behavior. Yes, there are a few how have made some insulting comments (as have you so I don’t get why it is bullying when they do it and not when you do it), but that is sort of the nature of life — people aren’t perfect and sometimes they do and say stupid inappropriate stuff. If you want it to stop, you may want to think about not escalating it. E.g., calling a woman the c word is just beyond the pale, regardless of what you feel the provocation is.

              Robert’s comment above was not an ad hominem attack, in that no where did he label you as in a “you are…” Taking issue with and disagreeing with you is saying that your statement or belief is wrong, but that is not an ad hominem attack. It is not the same thing as saying YOU are somehow wrong as a human being. Which he did not do.

            • FLUNK_101

              Let me spell it out

              I was a clam

              I never talked about it, because I didn’t want to be associated with those people

              Now, for the first time in over thirty years ago, I’m talking about it

              I find it very disheartening when people accuse me of still being “in”

              This is the only place I have to go. I can’t hang with the indies because they are still chasing the supernatural dragon.

              But I have been bullied here on this of, no doubt about that.

              I have an almost photographic memory. I can remember what it was like. I thought people might appreciate that, and I am sure some people did. But maybe my memory is so good that I mistakenly convinced some others that I was still “in.”

              There a lot of nasty talk and bad language on this blog, but it’s tolerated because it’s directed at Scientology. But I will not tolerate that kind of talk being directed at me. And gender is no excuse, girls!

            • stillgrace

              But you’ll tolerate it directed at others?

            • pronoia

              Well people are accusing you of being “in” are wrong — and if you know that it shouldn’t matter. I am sure that most people here know that — I sure do.

              I think you should continue to hang out as I feel you have a lot to offer and it is important that you talk about it here until hopefully you can find a way to begin to talk about it with people in the real world. Although I was never in the cult — I do know what it is like to be traumatized and to feel completely isolated from the world because of it, as do I am sure, many others here.

              But for your sake, I think you should consider changing your tactics so that when you feel bullied, just walk away and don’t engage. Because when you call people names, that is all people see and remember and you cancel out all the really good things you have to say.

            • FLUNK_101

              Thank you, pronoia. And thanks for taking the time to say that. I appreciate your reason, kindness and compassion.
              “hopefully you can find a way to begin to talk about it with people in the real world”
              That’s never gonna happen. I learned my lesson, and I can thank Tony I learned it on a blog instead of in real life! I will NEVER tell people I was once a clam. It’s too predjudicial.
              If I had to do it all again, I would never tell anyone I was “in,” not even on this blog. I like people to see me for who I really am. There was only one person, on “Rodeo,” who saw me like that. He had something to do with concerts and touring, so I wondered if he was familiar with musicians and my personality type. His name was “French Mike,” and people turned on him when he defended me. It was absolutely sickening.

            • Missionary Kid

              Please respond to pronoia’s last paragraph, or at least take it to heart. They said what I was trying to say much better. I’ll repeat it here.

              “But for your sake, I think you should consider changing your tactics so
              that when you feel bullied, just walk away and don’t engage. Because
              when you call people names, that is all people see and remember and you
              cancel out all the really good things you have to say.”

            • FLUNK_101

              Thank you MK. That’s more than fair, it’s very kind.

            • Missionary Kid

              That’s what I’ve been trying to say, and he said it much better. Please know that I’m trying to be kind, regardless of how it comes across to you.

              Realize that I could have gotten involved in a flame war with you, because some of your comments made me angry, but I wanted you to know that I still believed that you’re a good person, but to me, some of your posts were absent of those characteristics.

              I’ve never been in, but reading your posts, I’ll feel I could bull-bait you into a rage. That’s something I DON’T want to do. That smacks of the sickness of LRH, and I hope I never emulate any of his shit, consciously or unconsciously.

            • DeElizabethan

              Girls are good at hugging but then so are guys. Here’s another one for you with much sincerity.
              ((((HUG))))

            • FLUNK_101

              I don’t think Robert meant it as an ad hominem attack. I think he sincerely believes I’m over-reacting. But he implied it was because of my own “internal” problems. That could be taken as ad hominem, though, like I said, I think he was being sincere.

              An ad hominem attack is a LOGICAL FALLACY.

              It’s being unwilling to see a person’s point of view based on your perception of who they are, instead of discussing what they have to say.

              Here is an example of an ad hominem attack:

              Bill: “I believe that abortion is morally wrong.”

              Dave: “Of course you would say that, you’re a priest.”

              Bill: “What about the arguments I gave to support my position?”

              Dave: “Those don’t count. Like I said, you’re a priest, so you have to say that abortion is wrong. Further, you are just a lackey to the Pope, so I can’t believe what you say.”

            • pronoia

              I agree that any kind of labeling or diagnosing of others in the midst of a debate or disagreement isn’t appropriate. But sometimes it is reasonable to ask someone to look at their own internal motivations if they feel they are behaving in an extreme or unpleasant way; even if it can be justified.

              And in the case of the example above, i personally would never try to debate abortion with a priest or any religious fundamentalist, because I know s/he is not going to change my mind–since I don’t agree with his premises which are in fact based on papal instructions and the official church interpretation of the Bible–and to explain that the reason we can’t talk about it is because he is in fact a priest and he will argue his point based on a Bible that I don’t read as he does. Calling him a lackey would of course not be insulting, but would not rise to the level of bullying, which is a much more serious thing.

              If we give people some space to screw up and not jump on them the moment they offend, life is just easier. At least that is my approach.

            • FLUNK_101

              I agree with you about discussing abortion with a priest.
              But how are people going to understand where I’m coming from if they think I’m still “in?” There was one person who tried to tell me I was still holding on to the “tech,” because on some subconscious level, I think I’m going to get in trouble if I leave it behind. After everything I’ve said about brain science! What are people thinking? It would be funny if it wasn’t so disheartening.

              Very nice talking with you, pronoia.

            • Missionary Kid

              The reason that people possibly have assumed that you’re still in is that you sometimes insist on defining things one way. That’s a Co$ tactic.

              Sessue Hayakawa, I believe it was, wrote about “areas of meaning” for words.

              Co$ insists on THEIR definition, and that a word of phrase only has one meaning. Hayakawa, as I remember it, used a venn diagram for definitions. In essence, words and phrases, according to him, not only change in meaning by context, but by associated words as well as culture.

              An illustration of how culture influences the meaning of a word is Crusade. Eisenhower wrote Crusade in Europe, but when Bush Jr. used the term in referring to us being in the Middle East, people in those countries remembered that their people were on the other end of the sword in the Crusades, which were attempted ethnic cleansings by Christians as far as they are concerned. Even the Eastern Orthodox Christians were victims of the Crusades.

              O.K., I went on too long.

              Edit. I fucking HATE the term “word clear.”

            • pronoia

              You know I really understand why that would hurt. I would be upset if somebody said something like that to me, especially considering that you did have the courage and intelligence to get out when you did.

              And I really don’t think anyone who matters believes you are still “in”. And of those that say it, some are probably just trying to wind you up and you shouldn’t give them the satisfaction of paying them any notice.

              On a deeper level, I would agree with the notion that those who have been in the cult will on some level struggle with the consequences at various points of their life. Just like someone who suffers PTDS from Iraq or Afghanistan, or domestic or childhood abuse and so forth. We are all human works in progress until we are not anymore.

              And it is nice talking to you as well. I meant what I said about most of your posts — they are very insightful and provide interesting and useful context to a lot of the conversations — that is until you get PO’d 🙂

            • FLUNK_101

              “You know I really understand why that would hurt … [people accusing me of still being “in”] … especially considering that you did have the courage and intelligence to get out when you did. ”

              Thank you P!

            • Robert Eckert

              You need to word-clear “ad hominem”: no, I am not saying “there is something wrong with you, therefore, there is something wrong with what you are saying” but quite the reverse: I am saying that your outbursts are objectively wrong, as your claims that you have been “attacked” before you bellow your outrage are baseless, as everyone but you can see.

            • FLUNK_101

              That’s bullshit.
              As far as understanding the meaning of ad hominem, I agree that your comment was not intentional ad hominem, because I think you were sincerely trying to point something out to me.
              You don’t have agree with me about what I say happened to me. I am wondering if you are a bit blinded by your own hatred of Scientology. That hatred may be justified, but it doesn’t give anyone the right to disrespect me.

            • Robert Eckert

              “You don’t have agree with me about what I say happened to me” Of course I don’t, because I have been here every day, and have seen what has happened.

              “it doesn’t give anyone the right to disrespect me.” You have been treated with a great deal more kindness and tolerance than you would get anywhere else, because we understand (even if you do not) that you are still strongly in the grip of the mindfuck.

            • FLUNK_101

              You may have been here every day, but you still haven’t walked in my shoes.
              How would you like it if, whenever you posted, someone responded “aaaagggghhhh!” Day after day, for months on end? I think it would get on your nerves, Robert.
              Sorry to hear you think I’m “still strongly in the grip of the mindfuck.” Now, that’s an ad hominem attack!

            • Missionary Kid

              Yesterday, you took a compliment by spf as an insult, and you went off on a profanity-laced rant. If she’s trying to make you look like a loon, she did a good job, however, she denies it, and the rest of the people here believe her.

              You didn’t say, “I take that as sarcasm,” did you? You’ve got so much anger that you blow up at what appears to the rest of us to be non-existent triggers. To me, you appear illogical when you do that, and I’m sure that you don’t want to appear that way.

              You also only have directed your anger at females. Why? There’s others who have been more insulting, but they’re male.

              I’m not a fan of the Catholic Church, or, for that matter, for religion in general. I’m well aware of it’s deficiencies, and can be as snarky about it as anyone else, but this is not the forum for it, and your posting on the CC is so vitriolic, it takes away from the real topic here, which is the fucking {Church} of $cientology.

            • FLUNK_101

              Now you’re WAY off.
              You are wrong on every count and you’re beginning to piss me off.
              Let’s not even get into SPF.
              My comments about the Catholic Church were completely fecitous!!! I was only making the point that the Church has committed crimes, that it gives some people comfort, and you can’t always draw a line connecting those two things directly.

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              FLUNK has been told that he is loved and that no harm was intended. Some of us have tried to analyze these ups and downs (going back almost a year now) and have taken his cursing retribution. As Capn’ said, this is cyclical; it will pass. He’s alternately playing victim and perpetrator (sound like anything we know?). We are all deeply troubled by Scientology and its reprehensible, criminal behavior and, I believe, there is too much to discuss to keep on with this. We try to make each other laugh in an effort to balance out all of the sorrow. Let’s keep on doing that!

            • FLUNK_101

              That’s an ad hominem attack.

            • FLUNK_101

              What you said about me is not correct. Just thought you’d like to know.

            • Missionary Kid

              Your comments about the CC didn’t come across as facetious. Did you wonder why you got so many negative comments? Unfortunately, any comm courses you took while “,in” only helped you communicate with with other $cions, and not the rest of us, IMO.

              To me, your posts come across with an extreme amount of anger, not even sarcasm. Again, maybe I’m wrong, but I’m urging you to look at the responses from people here. People are genuinely sympathetic with the horrors you experienced, but what comes across is anger, directed at people here who don’t, IMO, deserve it.

              You can get as pissed off at me as you want, but in my opinion, what you may be trying to say and how it comes across are two different things. You can call me wrong, and say it’s my fault.

              I’m only words on a page. I’m not writing this to piss you off, but your rants are getting old. Once you’ve blown up, you again come back as the reasonable person I believe you are. Why do you even need to indulge in them? Others have pointed out that it seems to be a cycle.

              Again, if SPF is trying to make you appear as a wacko 5 year old, she’s doing a damn good job. I don’t believe you are. Please show it by not acting like one.

            • Missionary Kid

              To add to what I wrote before, when you end up with “fuck you” and all of the rest of your profanity, it is the type of posting that I characterize as juvenile.

              You didn’t have the cajones to say, “that’s an ad hominem attack.” Instead you retaliated in what you believed was in kind, like a child does. You’re better than that.

          • Gerard Plourde

            I agree with you that Scientology seeks to co-opt you from the bottom up. It’s engaging in a kind of shell game. On the one hand it claims that you are a thetan with the potential to control matter, energy, space and time while seducing you with the physical pleasure of “gains” or “wins”. The practices (as I understand them) are designed at the same time to co-opt your ability to reason. You deserve praise for having extricated yourself. It doesn’t change the evil you were subjected to.

            • FLUNK_101

              Thank you sir. You are a very fine gentleman, and I appreciate what you said very much.
              No, the evil doesn’t change. Too bad I didn’t see the evil to begin with.
              The deeper I got into it, the more unacceptable it became.
              When I did the clear rundown, I had some good auditing sessions. Afterward, I felt euphoric, and endlessly optimistic. After some of the other sessions, though, I just felt OK … and I still hadn’t forgotten the sec check which preceded the auditing. It was very unpleasant.
              I took the bus home, because I had no car. Riding the bus, I thought if how much happier I’d be if I could afford a car!
              After attesting to clear, it didn’t sit well with me. There was no more hoping or imagining, this was it.
              I realized my good qualities had always been part of who I am, and that Scientology had no right to lay claim to those good qualities.
              I stopped in 1980, but still, it took a while for it to pass from my mind.

            • Gerard Plourde

              Don’t be too hard on yourself for not seeing it. The truth is that we learn more from the times we fail than the times we succeed and, if fortunate, we become a little wiser. The fact that you realized that Scientology had no claim on your innate good qualities attests to the wisdom you acquired.

            • FLUNK_101

              Thank you, Gerard. You are very kind.

            • Poison Ivy

              Happy Independence!

        • Anonymookme

          Something I can’t understand at all about this cult is when they speak about their “wins”. I think of a “win” as basically a “never in” saying at the end of a very good and productive day, “damn, today was a very good day”!
          As a Catholic, it would NEVER enter my mind to think, “need more Catholicism so I can repeat this glorious day”.
          WTF? Who thinks like that?

          • Missionary Kid

            There is also the part of a religion that says, I had a great experience, everyone else should have it, too, so I’m going to proselytize. That’s what missionaries do.

            • Anonymookme

              Yes, that’s true.
              But seems like a Sciloons response to these “wins/very good days” is “need to PURCHASE more Clamology so I can repeat this glorious day”

            • Missionary Kid

              LRH structured the whole thing so all the money he could possible get would come to him.

            • grundoon

              In Scientology you are obliged to attest to this in writing at the end of every course. If you decline, punishments are handed out to your auditor / case supervisor / course supervisor.

            • Missionary Kid

              For missionaries, there’s a guilt when they don’t try to save people. The punishment is self-delivered.

            • Poison Ivy

              By proselytizing, you convince yourself over and over of the reality of your “win.” (Whether you’re selling Amway or preaching the gospel.) It’s the reason CO$ has everyone write up their wins. They are convincing themselves of their wins over and over, without questioning, “Well, was it REALLY that good this time?”

            • Missionary Kid

              Was it good for you, too? Sorry, couldn’t resist.
              It’s all a part of the brainwashing.

      • Gerard Plourde

        “These euphoric experiences, “blow-outs” or “wins” or used to gain your trust.”

        It’s interesting that, on the contrary, in most meditative practices practitioners are warned not to put trust in euphoric experiences.

        • FLUNK_101

          Thx, GP. That’s interesting.

        • FistOfXenu

          I’ve heard that too.

        • EnthralledObserver

          So it’s only those that seek to take advantage of you that try to lure you into more of their poison by encouraging you chase the win.

      • Poison Ivy

        “Euphoric Recall” is a term used in addiction studies to explain why addicts & alcoholics return again and again to their drug of choice, even when it’s killing them – and even after they haven’t experienced anything even close to “euphoric”, sometimes for years. We don’t remember physical pain, but we do remember pleasure, and we’re hardwired to chase it.

      • Remy

        This is a good point.

        Casinos take advantage of this.

        Addictive gamblers see a “near win” as a win, even though it is a loss.

        Non-addictive gamblers see a “near win” as a loss, which it is.

        • FLUNK_101

          Remy!!

          • Remy

            Yes?

    • MO Mom

      Just love that they require a person to surrender their constitutional rights. What so-called brilliant mind thought up that piece of crap and that it could be legally enforcable? The thought of that just makes my skin crawl.

    • villagedianne

      Wow, it’s shocking to see this in black and white! When I read about Scientologists signing away their first ammendment rights, I thought it was a metaphor! Scientology is always worse than you think.

      I am curious to know how this document was obtained. I know ex-members do not get to keep a copy. Was it part of a court case, perhaps the Debbie Cook case?

    • SP ‘Onage

      This is shocking! My forefathers Swore an Oath to Uphold and Defend the Constitution and many of them died defending it.

      Scientology is un-American and violates the Constitutional rights of it’s parishioners by this covenant. What a disgrace!!!

      Anyone who would ever seek to quash the free speech of others because they do not agree with what is being said is a coward and a traitor, and should be treated thusly.

      This is a good example of why a groundswell of people are rising up against the unpatriotic regime of scientology.

      • Poison Ivy

        Not to mention, they’re spending my tax dollars on harrassing, enslaving, and otherwise ruining the lives of other Americans. That really burns me up.

    • Racnad

      I’ve long said that Scientology does not believe in First Amendment Freedom of Speech. How interesting to finally see that in writing!

  • EnthralledObserver

    I am aghast and dumbfounded… truly.

  • EnthralledObserver

    It is clear to me after hearing so many of these escape stories (and I have no doubt that I have not nearly heard most of them) that in many cases, if only things had gone a little differently, if the law officers or concerned public/relatives had acted in favour of the escapee and they’d not been sucked back in numerous times, the justice system would have taken this insidious organisation out many years ago and provided plenty of evidence and precedents for ex-members to gain legal retribution and justice. So many missed opportunities… I shake my head.

    • FistOfXenu

      It’s maybe not so easy to have confidence to be decisive and know the right things to say and do. That highway patrolman, who knows what the guard said to him? And he might not know how to offer Scott a way out after what ever the guy said and then after Scott got talked into saying he’d go back. You’d have to be pretty sure of your self to insist on taking it all back to hq to work it all out.

      • EnthralledObserver

        Yes, I hear you… I was merely expressing the ‘what if’ perspective. So many times it could have worked out differently, yet didn’t. Marc Headley’s story is one in particular that comes to mind, I mean, the fuckers actually ran him off the road… and had the officers that stopped for him been that smidge more proactive and suspicious… well… you know.

        • FistOfXenu

          Not a criticism EO. More like just talking to myself out loud to remind myself how hard it must be for outsiders to understand just how screwed up $cientology really is. It’s hard enough for new people to take it all in after they read about it or talk to somebody that knows. But to just be a cop or patrolman and walk into the middle of it? Must be like walking into the middle of an unbelievable movie.

          • EnthralledObserver

            All good FOXy 😉

            • FistOfXenu

              😀

          • Robert Eckert

            For a cop, it’s probably like walking into the middle of a domestic dispute where it would take days to understand the background of what they are even arguing about.

            • Gerard Plourde

              ” it’s probably like walking into the middle of a domestic dispute”

              You’ve hit on the exact analogy – and police are warned that this is one of the most dangerous situations they can encounter. One danger is that the complainant can sometimes begin to object to the perpetrator being removed or, more likely, object to the police arresting the perpetrator and then turn on and attack the police. This does happen with more frequency than we’d like to admit.

  • EnthralledObserver

    I do wonder often… why didn’t anyone try to pull a swifty and try to sign “Not Applicable” in flowery writing as their signature on these non-disclosure documents… it’s what I would try to get away with? Or is there some such anecdotes of cheeky departees?

    • George Layton

      It’s sad to think that all the children growing up in the church right now may very well believe that the wog world out here is insane and dangerous and that they are only safe under the protection of the church. What a waste it is that those kids are learning the world according to hubbard. When the church goes under I hope that there is enough insight to ban at least the information that hubbard fabricated about history, science and all the rest. If folks can use some of the tech in gaining awareness that’s fine but let’s hope they will leave kids out of it. I hope that at least they(those out but still practicing the tech) are not of the mind set that they believe children need help because of past life or pre-birth aberrations. To me that is by far the worst thing hubbard did in his tech development, implying that children are in need of auditing because they were born with aberrations.

      • MissCandle

        “To me that is by far the worst thing hubbard did in his tech development, implying that children are in need of auditing because they were born with aberrations.”

        The following is NOT an anti-Catholic statement: This reminds me of the “original sin” doctrine. — did LRH steal that idea also? This is one basis for my belief (which I followed in raising my own child) that people should be allowed to make their own searches and discoveries in life and then make up their minds about which, if any, belief system to follow.

        • sugarplumfairy

          Lol.. Never thought of that.. Congenital aberrations = original sin.. He couldn’t call it original aberration, because he obviously never word-cleared ‘original..’

          • Missionary Kid

            Or really had an original thought.

        • sister wendy

          very salient….great observation

        • pronoia

          Original sin/contamination (which begins with Christianity in the OT) is an old and ancient idea which predates catholicism by millennia. Animist and pagan religions are full of it. It may have been and evolutionary necessity in a pre-science world, to create rhyme and reason for things which could not be understood. The doctrine of karma is very similar in that it says that if you hadn’t done something bad (or failed to do something good) in the past, you wouldn’t be suffering as your are now.

          LRH just took a very basic human concept and put his own spin on it. The idea that if you could get up that bridge and become a bona fide OT, you could be at cause over all things is right out of Crowley and the medieval magical alchemical tradition.

          • Kitz

            Could you give a few examples of what you see in animism and paganism? Just curious since I don’t recall any off the top of my tired brain. 😉 I’m also wondering if you mean karma in its original context, or how it has skewed by the western world?

      • PreferToBeAnon2

        One of the worst things Hubbard ever did was to instill the fear of the Psychs. Qualified therapists are the very people that could “help at the scene of this accident.” I suppose that is why he did it. That, and the fact that the psych world wouldn’t play in his sandbox, and his fear of them finding out how truly off the rails he was.

    • sister wendy

      well- I remember signing things (there are always lots of papers to sign when you start a course or auditing or anything) I remember not wanting to sign my name, not wanting to give my address, wanting to skip stuff or leave things blank. Some stuff in the documents, I DIDN’T agree with- and when I questioned, protested, hesitated, said I didn’t want to sign, etc. basically there was someone there, soothing the way. Almost whispering in your ear- do it, do it…..I remember being told: “It doesn’t matter what you sign, it’s all just paper anyway” to “Do you REALLY want your money back`?” (implied: you will be declared an SP) THey just stand there and sort of coerce you into it. The nearest thing I can think of that it was like for me, is the scene in Disney’s The Little Mermaid when Ariel signs the contract with Ursula. Everyone watching is saying: Nooooo! But she really wants those feet and signs the agreement anyway. I know this sounds stupid as shit now. And there are things I would never agree to or sign, even then…but you kind of just go along. It’s really hard to describe if you haven’t been there….I’m sure someone else can do a much better job than I am at explaining this phenomenon. which is: how they get you to sign and agree to stupid things, even illegal ones

  • FistOfXenu

    It’s hard as a never in to believe that a gang of criminals right here on American soil are allowed to get away with what they did to Scott Campbell. This sounds more like somebody that was kidnapped in Beirut or some thing. We have to be glad he’s out now.

    Also, good to have Atack talking about these books. Makes me feel like reading some of them.

  • Damian DeWitt

    Jeff Hawkins and Jonny Jacobsen to my mind are the finest stylists among writers critical of Scientology – their elegant, lucid prose is a pleasure to read.

    I want to put in a big plug for Jeff Hawkins “Leaving Scientology”, which has been overshadowed by “Countefeit Dreams.”

    It is book that articulates the mindset of Scientologists for ex-Scientologists who are in communication with them and attempting to educate them so that can come to see the light about Scientology and leave David Miscavige’s Church of Scientology.

    Though Jeff wrote it with Ex-Scientologists as his target audience, as someone who never had the misfortune of ever been a Scientologist and actually didn’t know anything about Scientology until Anonymous came along five years ago, I found the insights in the book extremely valuable.

    Jeff goes right to the heart of the matter and focuses on the essential issues and questions that keep Scientologists enslaved to Miscavige’s regime of pseudo-psychotherapeutic totalitarianism.

    I cannot recommend it highly enough.

    http://www.amazon.com/Leaving-Scientology-Practical-Recovery-ebook/dp/B0089SHGJI

    • sugarplumfairy

      I agree.. Jeff’s books are great.. And after Tonyand Jon, Jeff and Jonny are right up there.. but if you buy the books from Amazon, use Tony’s link..

  • California

    This July/August 2013 edition of The Atlantic has, on page 108, the following: Ideas That Seemed Bad at the Time, Then Briefly Maybe Not So Bad, and the Ultimately Really Bad: the Great Gatsby as a 3-D movie, MARRYING TOM CRUSIE (caps mine), Dennis Rodman, diplomat, Snapchat, Tim Tebow, NFL quarterback, Real Housewives, Paul Ryan.

    We could probably put SCN, A.B.L.E., Narconon and anything about SCN accessing the kids in there, as well.

    • Anonymookme

      I would add to their list The Atlantics smooth move in putting up a Scientology sponsored ad on their website and their attempt to hide the fact that it was a Scientology sponsored ad.

      • California

        I am not familiar with this. Can you elaborate, please?

      • Observer

        You took the words right out of my mouth!

      • ze moo

        The Atlantic article was labeled ‘sponsored ad’ and ‘from prweb’. The label was easy to see and could easily be missed. Who pays a lot of attention to ads on a web page? . I think the Atlantic’s big problem with the ‘article’ was that comments were allowed and were moderated. The moderation was not apparent, but was easy to see after an hour or two. The Atlantic’s problems were made worse because the moderation appears to have been farmed out to a company outside of the Atlantic and they didn’t do a very good job.

        Allowing comments on a puff piece about Scientology is an invitation to a flame thrower inspired war. The idea may have been good, but the execution doomed the whole thing.

  • sugarplumfairy

    Re: Scott’s escape.. Aaaaaggghhhh..

    • Robert Eckert

      “They talked me into coming back…” How? This is the part I don’t get. “How can good, intelligent people buy into this?” is a question I’m starting to get, but the tales of blowing and being talked back are still hard for me to fathom.

      • sugarplumfairy

        Exactly.. You’re held in a stone-walled room and you’re screaming and pounding to get out.. And they talked you into going back there??? To me, it only demonstrates how their ‘tech’ mindf*cks you..

        • FLUNK_101

          “To me, it only demonstrates how their ‘tech’ mindf*cks you..”

          Just. Like. Catholicism.
          The Catholic Church is a criminal organization with crimes against humanity that go back centuries.
          Yet, some people still practice this “religion.” Believers can be effusive. They say this belief system brings them feelings of peace, solace and love. They must be mindfucked!

          • sugarplumfairy
          • Captain Howdy

            Ya know what I think, Flunk? I’m thinking it’s about time Tony… BANHAMMERED YOUR CRAZY ASS!

            • sugarplumfairy

              Nah, it’s ok.. A little confront and shatter never hurt anybody.. Right? Ask Paulette and hundreds of others.. At least he didn’t use the other C word.. And besides, I love him..

            • Sherbet

              Nah, it isn’t OK. It’s a derailment, and it seems now to be a personal vendetta. You’re a strong sugarplum, you are.

            • sugarplumfairy

              It’s not really a derailment.. I blame it on co$.. And he’s a clear and present example of the damage they do.. He needs help which he’ll probably never get because co$ has drilled into him how evil psychiatry is.. They’ve done major damage in their little part of the world on that front..they’ve deprived hundreds, maybe thousands, of the real, effective treatment they need..

              I know this will probably set him off again.. But for once, I hope he can read this and understand me.. I have absolutely no ill will toward him.. I enjoy most of the info he shares as I know everybody else here does.. But he needs to deal with whatever issue he is facing.. And i wish I could help..

            • Sherbet

              You’re a sweetheart, sugar.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Back at you, Sherb… Now, I really am off.. I am planning to confront a few waves and shatter a few mojitos..

            • Andrew Robertson

              I have reason to believe this is not a photo of Nurse Plum.

              http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2881/9221677945_1ac9c6887b_o.jpg

              Andrew

            • Sherbet

              I think you’re absolutely correct, Andrew!

              (And I’m laughing.)

            • sugarplumfairy

              lol.. you tickle me..

            • Captain Howdy

              I blame it on a chemical imbalance.

            • Sherbet

              You may be right, seriously.

            • Captain Howdy

              I wasn’t joking, and Grace is right about the cyclic nature of his attacks. I noticed that a while back.

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              It is cyclical; I’ve seen it too.

            • stillgrace

              Absolutely. Chemical imbalance … the cyclic nature of his attacks are a dead give-away. He also has a deep vein of narcissism coupled with an unnatural need for attention- good or bad. He’s the type of “friend” that evokes a restraining order.

            • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

              Is this “friend” of yours available to work for OSA?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Good luck….. and don’t hold your breath!

            • Sherbet

              FLUNK reminds me of the nursery rhyme about the little girl with the little curl “right in the middle of her forehead. When she was good, she was very, very good; and when she was bad, she was horrid.”

              FLUNK, choose a personality, and stick with it, OK? You can be articulate and helpful, or you can be an annoying brat.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              I hope Flunk is still here. Flunk, I understand completely why you go off when your wins are stomped on here. You know that I do. I just don’t think that is really the issue. I just hope you know that you can talk to someone, like a life coach, no drugs involved, just talk to someone who understands these issues and can help you deal with what is bothering you. This is a job for a professional, and I hope you can find your way to move from trying to help yourself with it into talking to a pro. Honestly, you will be glad you did. If the first person doesn’t work for you, find another. Good luck and hang in there. You sound to me like a good person and I wish you all the best.

            • Sherbet

              I’d hate to have anyone actually banned, but I feel your pain, Howdy.

            • Captain Howdy

              Sheeeeit, make me a moderator and there’d definitely be some feeling of the pain. : )

            • FistOfXenu

              Nah. He can be Tony’s court jester.

            • DeElizabethan

              Maybe a huge hug will do, so here’s a big one for you Flunk (((HUG)))

          • Missionary Kid

            I was raised an anti-Catholic, not of the virilent type, but I was educated about its deficiencies. It turns out that many of the same deficiencies applied to my own sect.

            The promise of rewards in the after/next life is a component of Abrahamic and Dharmic traditions. They are also a part of other weird sects, and, since nobody’s come back, (O.K. I know the claim that Jesus did) nobody can truly say what’s on the other side.

            That promise has been used to control and abuse many people all over the world and over the ages. In a way, it can be called the biggest con. It has hindered progress.

            On the other hand, it has also brought a lot of comfort to people. It has also inspired people to take great risks and make sacrifices on behalf of their fellow man that have helped bring about progress.

            Flunk, as much as I choose to keep religion out of my life as an atheist, you’re on the wrong forum with this post.

          • sugarplumfairy

            You may have a point about the Catholic Church.. I wonder what would happen if I tried to quit it.. Would they lock me in a stone-walled room? Send security guards chasing after me? Maybe the pope would hire private dicks to watch me for 20 years? Rent the condo next door and spy on me?

            Love you, Flunk.. Calm down and share the pool.. It’s a nice sunny day..

          • sharon brown

            They do not have disconnection policies, forced ” donations” til your house is in foreclosure, practice quakery , tell people not to go to doctors for illnesses, and on and on. I’m not Catholic but have respect for others beliefs. COS is Not a religion, it Is the cult of greed and human destruction.

            • Sherbet

              Sharon, Flunk is going after sugarplumfairy. Don’t even bother trying to convince him. Yesterday was a religion free-for-all, and Flunk’s comment today is fallout directed at one person.

            • stateofcircle

              Technically, one could argue that the Catholic church has excommunication, which could kind of be compared to disconnection. I would imagine it’s a lot more relaxed than it probably used to be. I don’t know anyone whose been excommunicated, nor do I know the rules and implications of it, even though I was raised Catholic. I think a big difference between Disconnection and Ex-communication is that disconnection is used as a first-line threat against ANY behavior that doesn’t fall in line with not only the church “doctrine”, but the ever-changing whims that suit church management at a given moment, big or small. With my understanding of ex-communication, one has to grossly violate a known and established rule, such as the Ten Commandments, and even then, one usually has the opportunity to redeem themselves through confession (the non-coerced, non-threatening, non-interrogation kind). The key thing here, for me at least, is the fact that, in Scientology, the rules always change. One can be threatened with disconnection for any number of reasons based on a current whim, like not donating enough money, or having a valid question about a process. And I would imagine ex-communication was more hardcore in the past, but nowadays it is not constantly held over a Catholic’s head as a violent threat, and the methods to redeem oneself from ex-communication and disconnection are starkly different: one is an emotionally and mentally violent interrogation process, various humiliating acts and sometimes even extortion, and the other, by today’s standard, is simply confessing your sins to a priest, acknowledging your wrongdoing and doing a peaceful penance through prayer. As I said, I am not very familiar with the logistics of modern ex-communication in the Catholic church, but I also don’t think that an ex-communicated member is no longer allowed to speak or have any sort of relationship with friends and family who are also still in the church, they just can’t go to church. Now, I am not saying Catholicism is great and superior and I’m not trying to argue that because it’s not as harsh it makes it OK. What I am trying to say is that most if not all religions do have some restrictive policies. The very nature of a religion bounds people by it’s moral code, and if that code is broken, there will be consequences. And sometimes we forget the violent histories and tragedies that have occurred in the name of religion centuries ago, because for the most part, especially in Western culture, religion is an ancillary part of life that mostly provides moral guidance and a sense of hope, as it isn’t really that feasible to have one’s life completely dominated by their religion. Case in point IS Scientology – those who are all-in can hardly support themselves and are completely out of touch with the world. One has to have a delicate balance between many things – work, family, rest, education and everyday life – and devoting all of one’s time, money and mind to religion is simply not possible. Centuries ago, there was hardly any industry, transportation, communication outside of one’s immediate area, access to information and an abundance of opportunities, so the biggest part of a person’s life was their religion and had no other choice than to live by it. IN order for religions like Christianity and Judaism to survive, they had to adapt with an ever-evolving society, and they have evolved into something that provides people with a moral center, a sense of community and a connection with God. Obviously there are exceptions, but I think they kind of prove my point: look at some hardcore/radical Muslims or the FLDS, for example. There is a major absence of things like modern technology, an industrial economy providing diversity in jobs, products and information, access to education, access to information, access to transportation, etc. When a society evolves, so must religion to be able to survive in that society. In these radical religions, they have prevented their society from evolving and can thus control them, which is simply not possible anymore in the general population, hence the word “radical”, and the view of these radicalized religions as abusive and suppressive/oppressive. My point is, Scientology really can’t even be compared with modern-day Christian, Jewish or Islamic religions because the circumstances in which it (tries to) exists are completely different. Like radicalized religion, access to information, proper education, certain jobs, modern technology, communication and outside influences are heavily restricted to the point that Scientology prevents evolution, modernization and adaptability. Most modern-day Christians, Jewish and Muslim people live their lives with their religious beliefs as a baseline for morality to guide them in their ever-changing and diverse lives. Most adherents to a radical sect of religion live their lives mostly, if not fully, in the confines of their religion and are dictated by it. It is, simply put, two completely different worlds.

              (I know there are exceptions, I know there is all kinds of crazy, and I am not arguing for or against any religion nor am I saying one is right and one is wrong. I am merely saying that, to me, there are fundamental differences that make it difficult to objectively compare Scientology with other religions.)

            • sharon brown

              I agree, to me it’s Not even a religion. It’s like comparing apples to lions .

          • Gerard Plourde

            You’re right that there are Catholics that have committed horrible crimes (including priests, bishops, cardinals and popes). The difference between Catholicism (or more broadly, Christianity) and Scientology is that the criminal behaviors of Catholics and other Christians are due to people not living up to what is taught (love your neighbor, love your enemies, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, care for the sick, visit those in prison).

          • Remy

            Stop proselytizing.

        • sister wendy

          I don’t want to directly disagree with you SPF, just add on- or maybe make an extrapolation of sorts. I’m not sure it’s the tech here- I think it’s more coercion techniques that almost anyone who studies coercion and control could apply- I don’t think this behavior is indigenous to Sci-bots. I think we all have the capability of doing this and learning how to do this to others. It’s like one of those experiments you read about some Psychology professor has decided to do in college….manipulation and what is necessary to create it. I think it’s broader then only a tech mind fuck.

          • sugarplumfairy

            I think you’re probably right.. But the tech is a major part of it.. The TRs and drills do a lot of damage and make the participants more malleable and much more susceptible to the other abuses..

            • sister wendy

              I agree-and there’s probably something about the way the drills are done that provide some aspect one of those psych professors would say is a necessary part of creating the coerced behavior pattern. That would be interesting- to understand the relation between the behavior/act of doing a drill in proportion to the content of the drill. Where and how does it actually become a fuck up….because that would point out the danger of doing them, and also provide a way for some of us to understand why we had some of the wins we did have (or perceived we had) during those drills….

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              ESMB has many threads on this, broken down into categories. or you can ask a specific question to narrow it down. factual, scientific answers and links.

            • sister wendy

              you’re right! You’re right! I don’t know why I forget that resource sometimes. It’s great.

            • sister wendy

              thanks- I always forget that resource…it’s great, isn’t it?

            • Remy

              It’s all very calculated, and in fact Hubbard bragged about his techniques on many occasions. He wasn’t shy about his ambition to create slaves.

        • sharon brown

          I take psychs, please. At least I’ll be fed and rubber walls to pound on.

          • Bella Legosi

            you get coloring books too and puzzles…………i hear most of the puzzles have missing pieces which is an asshole move on the hospital’s part IMHO

            • Missionary Kid

              Naw, it’s cause they’ve been around for so long that people lose them.

            • sharon brown

              Now that can drive you crazy with the missing puzzle pieces, but I love to color ! I’ll take those types ofcassholes , messing with my puzzle pieces over Tiny fists beating me !Yippie !!!

        • Proud to be an SP

          To me, it only demonstrates how their ‘tech’ mindf*cks you.. so well said.

  • sister wendy

    Jeff’s story was the first thing I was reading when I was discovering what was really going on in Sci-bot Land and deciding to come out. I went from laughing and getting some of the stuff (“oh- that’s how survey’s are supposed to work”) to just outright disbelief. It was like watching someone caught in Joseph Heller’s Catch-22- stupid people making stupid decisions that dangerously affect other people. Thoughtless people ruining careers, families and opportunities. I finally saw that the system would never be anything for anyone, let alone sensitive, idealistic, talented people who want to make the world a better place. It was like discovering nightmare you didn’t know existed. I couldn’t believe this was someone’s personal experience from being in scientology. I was overwhelmed and riveted to learn more. Thank you, Jeff!

  • claybonnyman

    Just bought “Counterfeit Dreams” on Jon’s recommendation and I look forward to reading it. I had a good start on some of the top anti-Scientology literature out there, but the UB has been my guiding light toward finding the rest.

    • MissCandle

      Excellent read — you will be happy you read it.

    • Remy

      Cool that the Bunker has helped!!! Tony rocks!

    • It’s an awesome book and not just for the story it tells – Jeff is a very talented writer.

  • Angela Schaffner

    Please tell me why these people don’t go to the police. They are imprisoned and abused, exploited and lied to and they don’t contact the authorities? Something is fishy here.

    • Bella Legosi

      Well there was the assistance Marc got from the Sheriff’s department when he blew Int!

      • EnthralledObserver

        No criminal charges came of it though… and he didn’t immediately send the police back in for Claire. I find it impossible to comprehend it… but I’m a never in so I don’t really hope to fully.

        • Bella Legosi

          But, the awesome part of it was that there was someone on the road who saw the fuckery happen and called it in!

          I don’t know why people don’t go to police. I have my theories, but they are just that. I am no fan of police, even when I did need their assistance, and know a lot of people who are with abusive assholes who never get out either. I think everyone has their own reason to stay or go back. There is no univerally understood “reason”. I think that is what trips a lot of people out.

          • EnthralledObserver

            I’d like that person/people to be able to verify what they saw… there’d be a police record of who it was, wouldn’t there? Not for my sake, I totes believe Marc, but as another record and testimony to shove in CO$’s and their lawyers’ faces.

            • Bella Legosi

              You and a lot of other people!

            • pronoia

              Not unless they decided to take the time to trace a cell phone call. And there is a double side to making info like that public — suddenly some good samaritan becomes known to the church. How would that encourage others to take note and take action in the future?

        • Gerard Plourde

          ” he didn’t immediately send the police back in for Claire”
          Unfortunately, the police wouldn’t be able to go in without a warrant (his statement by itself would probably not be enough to trigger the “exigent circumstances” exception to the 4th Amendment.)

          • EnthralledObserver

            But wouldn’t it be enough for the police to ask the guards to ‘produce’ Claire to the front gates to check on her welfare? I’m pretty sure they’d do it here in Australia should the same situation come up. I understand they probably wouldn’t ‘raid’ the property, but enquire at their gates and talk to her briefly I would imagine would be the police’s least obligation in my opinion.

            • Gerard Plourde

              It could be, but not necessarily. Remember, it’s late at night, Claire isn’t in physical danger or in jeopardy of imminent serious physical harm. Because the officers involved were patrol officers they would probably have to have gotten approval from someone with more authority to do more.

          • pronoia

            Claire did not even know he was running at that point. And there is no way anything good could’ve come of that. What is more interesting to me is that when Marc was planning Claire’s escape a few weeks later, it did not occur to him to call the cops that helped him to meet up with her at the bus station, just in case. I bet they would’ve. But that is how deep the conditioning is — even after they have demonstratively helped you — you don’t think they can help you.

    • sister wendy

      This is why it’s a cult, right? When we are there, we are taught that the outside authorities are basically useless. You basically think you cant count on them. I know this is weird to someone who is out. But when you’re in, it takes a lot to think of going outside. If you go outside, you are having suppressive thoughts-and then you’ll be an SP…and on…and on… you really try to get on in the system.

      • Bella Legosi

        Thank you! You articulated it better then I ever could have!

        • sister wendy

          oh- thank you!

      • Proud to be an SP

        Thank you – well said – but that is just so hard to understand for us never-ins. I cannot seem to wrap my brain around it.

        • sister wendy

          well- you can count your blessings there;) And it’s just great that you’re willing to understand and be supportive. When you find out you were thinking “that way”- it can be pretty overwhelming.

    • Racnad

      When they are indoctrinated, they are willing. A few years ago the FBI was considering raiding Gold Base to free the prisoners in “The Hole.” Former members warned them not to, because the inmates would not leave like escaped prisoners, and claim they were there willingly. I’m not convinced NO ONE would have walked out, but most would have stayed.

      • EnthralledObserver

        I still think they should have done it anyway… because the police really only need one person to be grateful for the assistance and leave with them… and I think they might just get at least one. Not to mention that after the raid it’d probably get worse for the inmates and more might fully wake up and try to leave (and hopefully succeed).

        • Missionary Kid

          The political reality is that it would end the career of any police official who got a warrant, and the judge who signed it.

          • EnthralledObserver

            And that is precisely why the US is in this mess with the cult in the first place. Pollies and officials with no balls and no sense of duty.

            • Missionary Kid

              Probably also some blackmail, too.

        • Gerard Plourde

          To understand how cults can react to that kind of action Google “Peoples’ Temple” or “Jonestown”. A very real possibility is mass suicide (including murder of the unwilling).

          • Robert Eckert

            Waco is the one that gives law enforcement even more nightmares.

            • Bella Legosi

              AHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

              Can of worms alert! lol *sighs* I learned my lesson last time this subject was brought up!

            • Robert Eckert

              Yeah, that’s how law enforcement feels about that subject too.

            • Gerard Plourde

              The sad truth is that problems that develop over a long period of time take a long period of time to be set right.

              ” if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman’s two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword . . .” – Lincoln’s Second Inaugural Address.

      • sharon brown

        It kills me that they wouldn’t do it and bring with them people trained to be able to talk to indoctrinated people. When they don’t it allows COS and other groups to continue to feel they can’t be touched and continue their abuses. Idon’t understand how that’s ok, sometimes people need protection from themselves. Let a drug shipment come into town , they’ll have every resource to help but human beings, nah, not important .

        • Missionary Kid

          The problem is that they could only hold the people for too short a time to deprogram them, and if they did hold them longer, they could be accused of kidnapping. Read what happened tot he cult awareness network.

          • sharon brown

            Yes, the entire system sucks !

          • Robert Eckert

            In the Warren Jeffs (Fundamentalist LDS polygamists) case, most of the women were not happy to be “rescued”.

    • HartleyPatterson

      People do go to the authorities. Once they’ve got through the incomprehension and disbelief, it comes down to money.
      Put yourself in the position of a Child Protection Service or a Cop Shop. For every abused child you could rescue from a rich family you could save a hundred from poor homes. Quite reasonably to keep your budget you have to show results, and big legal fees from fighting a cult aren’t the results your funder wants to see.

      • Observer

        Scientology: you can never be cynical enough about it, because it’s always so much worse than you think.

      • Chocolate Velvet

        The disbelief is a huge issue for exes in general. An important part of the healing process in leaving the cult is finding people to talk to who will believe your story, and understand the situation. Understand it well enough to avoid unhelpful questions like, “why would they do that?”, or “you seem so smart, how could you fall for that?”

        Dealing with that kind of thing from law enforcement, when one is already a victim of criminal acts, is enough to keep many folks from ever filing a report or pressing charges.

        • Observer

          That’s why I’m here–it’s really all I’ve got to offer exes. I’m a never-in, I haven’t lost anyone to it, I have no firsthand knowledge that would help in any kind of prosecution … but I have been watching the cult for 25 years and I know what they do, I believe the exes’ stories–even the ones who say their experience wasn’t that bad, because even in an abusive home there are degrees of abuse–and I have no desire to heap scorn upon people who are already suffering. Moral support all I’ve got to offer. I wish I had more.

          • Kitz

            Same here.

        • HartleyPatterson

          The value of going to the authorities is not so much in getting something done immediately as in getting your problem on record. The authorities like files, folders and records, they are wary of citizens who rattle off long lists of complaints that were not reported before.

    • Chocolate Velvet

      Many of them HAVE gone to law enforcement. But the cult hides behind that word “religion”, and a cadre of still-ins willing to tell any outrageous lie, or “shore story”, for the greater good. That is, the protection of the scientology money machine.

      It is indeed fishy that law enforcement is unwilling to prosecute, despite many investigations. It is not uncommon in situations of long-standing injustice or illegality. As with the banks, and the many execs, traders, and so on who are still unprosecuted despite ample statements concerning their crimes.

      Law enforcement often has to be pressured to pursue criminals. If it troubles you, ask the relevant agencies to explain it, NOT the people who were victims of crimes, and then victims of official indifference or cowardice or malfeasance. In fact, a part of being an effective critic of the cult should be putting pressure on the law to do it’s job. Just by letting them know, someone is watching.

      • Bella Legosi

        We are also discussing police and Hemet………I am notoriously suspicious of police and when you combine Cult HQ with yokel cops, the field is ripe for bribery.

        • Espiando

          Check with people who’ve done protests in Hemet like xenubarb or AGP. They can provide you with more information.

          • Bella Legosi

            😀

            Where do you think I got the info that the phone systems were under Int? AGP is an invaluable information disseminater! <—–hah just made up my own word!

            • Missionary Kid

              I see AGP flying through the air, wearing his Mitre on his head, and a big D on his chest.
              The disseminator!

            • Bella Legosi

              lol now that is an awesome visualization! I envision a bright Rainbow Cape!

            • Missionary Kid

              I’m not artistic. Observer could shoop it for us.

    • sharon brown

      Brainwashing …

    • noseinabk

      Check out this article from Robert Vaughn Young.

      http://www.lermanet.com/cos/mindcontrolmodel.htm
      “The first time I saw the parallel between my own experiences in the cult
      of Scientology and battered women was when I was reading “Captive Hearts,
      Captive Minds,” which is an excellent book. It was in the Intro or maybe
      the first chapter that they cited and quoted the singer Tina Turner who
      had been in an abusive relationship for something like 10 or 15 years. She
      remarked how being with Ike Turner was like being in a small cult. The
      remark jumped off the page at me. Given the success of Tina Turner as an
      entertainer, one is not prone to say she is a stupid woman but there she
      was in a marriage where she was beaten constantly and yet she stayed. When
      she finally escaped, as she tells her story, it was after a beating that
      left her head so swollen that she couldn’t put on a wig. She wrapped her
      head in a scarf and fled, taking no money or anything and finally got away”
      from Ike Turner.”

      • Missionary Kid

        Phil Spector treated Ronnie the same way and brutalized their kids as well. None will have anything to do with them. I had a friend who tutored the kids and she said they were really screwed up from their dad. It’s too bad that he had to kill someone before he was finally put away for good.

    • Remy

      This is a good question, one that has taken me a while to understand. You’re in the best place to learn more about the phenomenon, but don’t forget to read Tony’s old blog posts at the Village Voice too.

      http://www.villagevoice.com/authors/tony-ortega/

  • pronoia

    I am trying to picture this scene in my mind. Scott Campbelll is running along the shoulder of the Santa Monica freeway, being pursued by Sicilians in a car and managed to convince the highway patrol that they had him in hand? And are allowed to take him even though it must’ve been abundantly clear that he was running from them? Lazy cops.

    • Missionary Kid

      It’s the 101, or Hollywood Freeway that he was on. O.K., I know, picky, picky, picky.
      His story illustrates how deep and thorough the condition is against the {evil psyches}=(sarcasm font) who would have been able to help him.

      • pronoia

        On that must’ve been my commentI got down voted? So yes you are right. The number 10 is the Santa Monica Freeway. Now off to word clear the Southern California freeway system…

        • Robert Eckert

          {Hey, richelieu thinks the 101 goes to Vermont}

        • Missionary Kid

          *Chuckle* I didn’t even notice the down-vote. Fuck “word clearing” anything.

          • Gerard Plourde

            It was you? I thought I accidently made a down vote when I tried to click on “Reply”.

            • Missionary Kid

              No, it wasn’t my downvote. I checked.

    • Gerard Plourde

      You have to understand that the police don’t have unlimited power and that if the Sea Org people told a plausible story to the police and were able to convince Scott that to tell the police that he was voluntarily going back, there would be nothing the police could do.

      • MissCandle

        Try telling that to Jeffrey Dahmer’s victims.

        • Bella Legosi

          I STILL think those cops thought they would catch the gay cooties had they helped that poor kid out!

          Well, where is old Jeffrey now? Dead. And that is a good thing!

          • Gerard Plourde

            “I STILL think those cops thought they would catch the gay cooties had they helped that poor kid out!”

            In Dahmer’s case I think that was a factor. Remember all that occurred before Lawrence v. Texas overturned Bowers v. Hardwick. It was a very different world.

            • Bella Legosi

              It was a different world, and unfortunately in some areas nothing has changed a damn bit!

            • Gerard Plourde

              Change takes time (arguably too long). Look at how long it’s taking to ensure voting rights aren’t infringed..

            • Bella Legosi

              Oh you mean until NOW? 🙂

              I really could not believe I heard (in generality) “Well we have a black president now. So, racism MUST be over!” HAH Why don’t they just hand the Presidency over to Rubio or Jeb?

            • Espiando

              It’s Milwaukee. They’re still that way. And it’s become worse with Scott Walker as governor. Trufax: during Pride, most gay Milwaukeeans don’t bother with the city and just drive an hour and a half south to Chicago.

        • Sherbet

          I was thinking the same thing, about one nude youth allegedly being returned to Dahmer, because the police thought he was merely a gay sex partner having had a spat with his lover.

          • Bella Legosi

            BUT HE WAS A KID!!!!! I have seen the pics of him before and after! They should have KNOWN something was wrong. I really do hope those cops know just how much hell they sentenced that kid to once they gave him back to his “gay lover”

            This was one of the scare stories my mom told me about cops as a kid.

            • Sherbet

              I still respect all police. They can’t do everything, they can’t know everything, but, like everywhere else in life, some people are stupid or lazy or misinformed. It was a terrible thing for those cops to do, and similar to Scott Campbell’s story.

            • Bella Legosi

              There are honest to god good cops (who usually never rank up) and the bastard cops. Portland is filled with bastards! But, they also have good ones too. But I am a girl and I know they treat girls different then some of the men.

            • sugarplumfairy

              My dad was a good cop.. He made colonel..

            • Bella Legosi

              Nice………..it is refreshing to hear GOOD stuff about police. The only police I ever really respected and liked through and through were Alaska State Troopers. They can be a fun and understanding bunch. I have had bad experiences in Portland with the locals and supposed “drug enforcement” sergeants whose job it was to clean up the meth in this town………………only to let cooks off the hook cuz “the final product wasn’t there, ergo we have no case!”

            • sugarplumfairy

              I thank god for the good ones.. Like the guys who helped Marc Headley.. But i know there’s corruption in most if not all departments.. My dad was disgusted with a lot he saw.. He encouraged all his sons to avoid careers in law enforcement.. And it was never even an option for the girls..

            • MissCandle

              Wow, you are young

            • Bella Legosi

              I was 10 or 11 when I saw the blue barrels taken from that sick bastard’s house. Back when Bundy got BBQed and Green River was still roaming Washington.

              By the way, serial killer stories really are used to scare kids here in the PacNW. I stay away from any type of vans or semi trucks (Happy Face killer lived in Portland I think) at night

            • Missionary Kid

              Green River, I-5, Ted Bundy. You guys win the {prize}.

            • Bella Legosi

              Those are just the ones who made national headlines…………..Alan Westley Dodd was a child killer who Washington executed. That was the first execution I ever watched or was allowed to see (my mom partied the night Bundy was executed, but made me go to bed). I was a real young kid at the time, so my fam had reservations about letting me watch it. But I knew the story, followed the news (I would watch it with my grandma). It sounds kinda sick saying it in retrospect, but I was really angry I didn’t get to actually see him die. They pulled the curtains back and that is when I found out you can not broadcast for real deaths on TV.

            • Captain Howdy

              Not so fast. California has richard chase, the zodiac, the zebra killers, edmund kemper,
              skid row slasher, william bonin, david carpenter, richard ramirez, hillside stranglers, randy kraft, manson family, gerald and charlene gallego…and many more.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Technically one Hillside strangler can be considered a PAC NW guy too!

            • Captain Howdy

              But most of his kills were in SoCal. The I-5 bandit killed in Ca. also

            • BuryTheNuts2

              You got me with you’re superior serial killer tech!

              …….this time!

            • Missionary Kid

              Unfortunately, California also has its serial killers. I’m not saying that one state is better or worse than the other. I was just pointing out some of the others.

            • Captain Howdy

              Kalifornia is #1, and don’t you forget it! Or I’ll..

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw5Vy8fKpYI

            • Missionary Kid

              So you’re going to use a video for a song as evidence? LAME! Good one. 😀

            • stillgrace

              Your Bay Area list reminded me a a buried memory. I know you don’t believe in magical thinking, Captain, but do you believe in gut feelings? I got my driver’s license and my first car the summer of 1969. I was so proud of my new-found independence. I loved driving myself to places where I could hike by myself and Villa Montalvo (off Sunnyvale-Saratoga Road) was one of my favorite places.

              One afternoon, I headed up into the hills alone above the mansion, when I was suddenly overcome with an intense feeling of dread, almost a panic attack without the sweats. I can honestly say that my blood ran cold. I turned immediately and ran down the hill as fast as I could. I told a friend about it the next day, who said I was just nuts. About a week and a half later, she came over to my house, very excited and upset, carrying a newspaper. A girl had been murdered on the grounds of Villa Montalvo!

              The papers speculated it was possibly the Zodiac Killer. I never saw or even heard anyone on the trail that day. But I sure felt something. Was there a bad guy above me in the hills? I don’t know. Coincidence? Maybe. However, I made up my mind after that to always trust my gut. I never told anyone else this story (especially my parents) until now, and my friend has long since left this world.

            • Captain Howdy

              My spider sense tingling has saved my ass more than once. I believe it’s natural instinct at play.

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              It is. The random number generator experiment is a good example of proving that. Not woo woo, but, something that shows that things are kind of connected. Quantum mechanics.

              On another experiment, forgive me that I can’t quote the name of the experiment, but a subject was flashed many pictures randomly–some nice, some neutral, some abhorrent–and they measured the response in between. They found an increased heart/brain rate (whatever they were measuring) seconds before the horrible pictures were shown.

            • Captain Howdy

              When the quake hit S.F in 1989, approx 30 seconds before we felt it, the cats did this…

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              And here is my cat seconds before she is to receive one of those hard curry-comb brushings to get the knots out. They know.

            • Captain Howdy

              awwwh..she’s gorgeous.

        • pronoia

          Or to Jaycee Lee Dugard or the poor girls kidnapped by Ariel Castro. All of whom could’ve been found and rescued years earlier if just one cop had taken an interest.

          • stillgrace

            In the Dugard case, it was eventually two sharp Berkeley campus policewoman who ended that nightmare. However, it could have been ended years earlier if other cops had taken an interest.

      • sharon brown

        We understand the police don’t have unlimited powers, , but shouldn’t they have knowledge of the ” groups” around them? They know about the street gangs, COS are just better dressed but still thugs. And shouldn’t they just be a little more curious as to why a man is running down a freeway? If they were more inclined to give a fuck who knows how many people they could have helped. It was police that helped Marc Headley get safely away and he had a broken 10mph bike !

        • Gerard Plourde

          Most of the world doesn’t know half of what we do about Scientology (I was going to say one-tenth, but didn’t want to be accused of hyperbole). To most people they’re not on the radar, or if they are it’s because of South Park, which makes them look silly, not dangerous.

          • sharon brown

            But shouldn’t law enforcement educate themselves? Learn from history ie. Jonestown , heaven’s gate etc. ?

            • Missionary Kid

              There isn’t a way of separating the nutball from the simply weird.

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              that sentence needs to be added to the list!

            • Missionary Kid

              I’m not adding it, because that applies to real life, not just Co$.

          • Missionary Kid

            Sillyness brings about a lack of respect, and respect is what Co$ desperately wants. They don’t really know how to handle Joking and Degrading.

            The negative response one gets when one mentions “Tom Cruise’s religion” illustrates the amount of damage that has been done to the ability for Co$ to function or get new blood. Keep it up.

            • Anonymookme

              Agree. Sometimes pointing and laughing really is the wisest strategy.

            • Gerard Plourde

              Absolutely. The battle is waged on many fronts. And as hard as it is, we have to be patient.

            • Missionary Kid

              Co$, because it has no sense of humor, doesn’t know how to handle Anon.

        • richelieu jr

          Decades ago, I made a couple of inoocuous little films lightly mocking Scientology (as I understood it) and the fell on me like to of bricks. Definitely no sense of humour at all, those bozos… AND THERE IS NOTHING FUNNIER THAN THAT!

          • sharon brown

            It’s hard to have a sense of humor when you’re constantly in fear of doing or saying the L Wrong thing! Haha ,I made a funny ! 😀

      • 1subgenius

        Wrong. They could have investigated further. They had more than enough cause to do so.
        Lazy and stupid.

        • sharon brown

          Yes 1 sub, they were lazy , stupid and uncaring

          • Missionary Kid

            They had a lot of other fish to fry, and they didn’t understand, and I’m sure that being in the conditions he was in made him incomprehensible to them.

            • ze moo

              How many LA police have worked security at the weekly ‘graduations’?? Once they take the money they become tainted. LA is a very expensive place to live and the cops there don’t make that much. A part time job doing security for CO$ can compromise them. Add in Lee Bacca’s ‘gifts’ from CO$ and they see the writing on the wall.

        • Gerard Plourde

          I understand and agree with your anger, but once Scott agreed to go back with the Scilons the police lost probable cause (and their potential complaining witness).

  • Mark

    Jeff Hawkins’ new book is going straight down on my list of MUST-reads forthwith – along with his previous effort ‘Leaving Scientology’, already widely acknowledged as one of the more literate and entertaining accounts by an escapee (I’ve already got Jon’s excellent account).

    I suspect Karen is stringing us along *just* a bit with the way she’s feeding us ever shorter driblets of her remarkable interview with Scott; last episode, she promised us a “happy ending” next time, when Scott and his wife break free from the vile cult at long last – but the pleasure of the denouement has been deferred yet again…

    “I see you quiver (pause) with antici- (very long pause) -pation!”

    What leaves me (almost) speechless with admiration is how Scott has a *smile* in his eyes the whole time he’s describing being treated like a runaway slave by these modern-day Barbary pirates, and getting no help from the police, either – perhaps it’s just his relief at being out of the whole nightmare – but I’ll hazard a guess it also indicates real courage and determination. If you’ve ever been out of a car on a motorway full of speeding traffic, you’ll know just how brave Scott was being!

    Scott’s story highlights the scandal of a cult that considers itself above the law (as in the highly dubious bit of Co$ legalese Karen reproduces below, where the US constitution is apparently suspended) – and which continues getting away with its sadistic depradations precisely because it is so rich.

    Does anyone really think that Miscavige’s activities would be tolerated a microsecond longer by the IRS, the FBI, et hoc genus omnes, if he *wasn’t* a billionaire?

    One law for the rich, another for the poor, eh?

    • Ms. B. Haven

      Very well put Mark, but I am going to disagree slightly on your last point about Miscaviage getting away with what he does because he has so much money. I don’t disagree with the disparity that is present when it comes to the rich and poor, but I think in this case it is a different matter. Subtle but different. Miscavige or the church of scientology don’t get kid glove treatment because of money, but because of what they buy with that money: black PR, private investigators, bottom feeding attorneys, slander, libel, blackmail, threats, etc. Also, there is a most definite fear amongst government agencies when it comes to going after ‘religious’ groups. With so many botched operations in the past like Ruby Ridge in Idaho, the Branch Davidians in Waco, the FLDS raid in Texas, etc. they will be very careful and thinking more than twice before proceeding with any prosecution because scientology is carrying out the above activities.

      Add to this these two facts:
      1. Even if the gates were open and security stood down, the vast majority of staff (sea org) would not leave despite the horrendous conditions they may be experiencing. This is almost impossible for those ‘never-ins’ to understand. I have been on staff at a mission and I have experienced this for myself and I have a difficult time explaining it. The phrase in the sub-title of Lawrence Wright’s book, Prison of Belief, puts it best.

      2. Scientology is small potatoes. Even though we get all worked up about the abuses and people’s sad stories here at the Bunker and other critics sites, in the big picture of world problems, scientology doesn’t hardly register. It does on a personal level, but not in the big picture. There just aren’t that many people affected by it anymore. Their membership is so low according to many sources that have reported here that they just don’t matter much to the vast majority of the population.

      • Missionary Kid

        Great points, Miss B.

      • Mark

        Thanks for your kind comments, Ms. Haven. You’re quite right that it’s what Miscavige can *buy* with his ill-gotten gains which makes the authorities so wary of acting against him and Co$ – likewise residual worries over a repetition of Waco, etc. – together with the mixture of brainwashing and fear among many Co$ staff, that gives this unpleasant man apparent carte-blanche.

        But maybe these government agencies are finally being encouraged to stop foot-dragging by the palpable effects of non-official opposition – all the way through from alt.scientology to the recent legal victories – and they will bring what remains of the cult down precisely because it is “small potatoes”: an easy target, and, as you say, just not that important in the bigger scheme of things.

      • Spackle Motion

        If the feds actually read and talked to Steve Hassan instead of hacks like Rick Ross, then this world would be a lot better when it comes to taking down cults and cult leaders. And we probably would have an entire task force assigned to Scientology that dismantled it systematically instead of ignoring it and hoping it implodes on its own, which only serves to make more victims.

        I’m in the “I’m Angry, Real Angry” club too just because the complete inaction from the federal government shows their Achilles Heel all too well, and it is based on money (or lack thereof). Every day that goes by and Miscavige is allowed to create more victims is so infuriating. The media is starting to catch on, and I hope that they shame the IRS and FBI into the next century.

        • Poison Ivy

          Ditto.

      • Poison Ivy

        “With so many botched operations in the past like Ruby Ridge in Idaho, the Branch Davidians in Waco, the FLDS raid in Texas, etc. they will be very careful and thinking more than twice before proceeding with any prosecution because scientology is carrying out the above activities.”

        Not exactly, Ms. B, at least in regard to Waco. Prosecutions were not the problem. It was the poorly planned and executed law enforcement/paramilitary actions that were the problem.

        Most people don’t know this, but of the dozens and dozens of lawsuits brought against ATF and FBI for Waco, nearly ALL ended solidly in law enforcement’s favor. At Waco at least, they weren’t found to have done anything illegal. They just proceeded with a raid plan that had already been blown long before they even got to the compound, not knowing that the Davidians outgunned them exponentially. At a certain point, they knew they’d been blown but unwisely went ahead anyway.

        I don’t think the problem is Justice Department not having their ducks in a row to prosecute. It think it’s fear of what it would take to really gather the right evidence.

  • Observer

    “It becomes clear that the reason for that success was avoiding the statpush management methods espoused by Hubbard. In fact, Jeff also had to ignore Hubbard’s marketing strategies almost entirely, and hire professionals who were untainted by the Management Technology.”

    This says it all, really. Hubbard “tech” = big fat FAIL.

    • Bella Legosi

      Sometimes, I can see a lot of Cartman in Hub

      • Observer

        “Screw you guys!”

        • Bella Legosi

          “I’m going home!”

          • Observer

            “To Target Two!”

          • sugarplumfairy

            ” I don’t need to hear crap from a bunch of hippie freaks living in denial! “

      • ze moo

        “respect my auth-ority”

        • Bella Legosi

          AuthoriTAH!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      It is also the reason for the incessant surveys. Walk into an org and you will be bombarded every 5 minutes. The kitchen help at Flag will even have surveys for you to complete before you finish a meal. Then the surveys via email, snail mail, phone, text messages, never ever ends. It didn’t matter how useful or helpful or effective anything Hubbard stole was at the beginning. Once he ran it through his multiple filters of insanity, it came out harmful, ineffective and abusive on steroids.

  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

    I didn’t know that Dr. Winter wrote a critical book. I had no idea that the original publisher of Dianetics stopped printing it when he understood that it was a fraud.

    That means, in a certain way, there were strong parallels way back then to what is going on right now and the Cult of Scientology survived it.

    So we better keep up the pressure every way we can.

  • mook

    Scientology Ethics Officer denied Religious Worker Visa (via WWP). looks like the US Gov. is slowly waking up
    https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/scientology-ethics-officer-denied-religious-worker-visa.112047/#post-2327514

    • Poison Ivy

      With human trafficking now more profitable than drug sales worldwide, US Gov is starting to look at THIS aspect of the cult, at least. A little late to the party, but we’ll take what we can get.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Thank you again, Jon, and a nod from my hubby who finished your new edition lately. His comment after the last page: “I f#!!#$#@’n wish someone had f#!!#$#@’n told me 1/10 of this f#!!#$#@’n years ago.” I welcomed him to “I’m Real Angry Level” Club. Time for Counterfeit Dreams! Jeff has this ability to stay cool, calm and collected when most of us are screaming, sobbing banshees. Scientology no long attracts or retains the caliber of people that kept breathing life into this monster. Now it is run on high priced lawyers, screeching flying monkeys and FaceBook police hags. And Jeff’s new picture should show any doubters how life “on the outside” looks. You look marvelous, Jeff.

    • Robert Eckert
    • Missionary Kid

      “I’m Real Angry Level” Club. I love it.

      • FistOfXenu

        How big a donation do you have to make to be in it?

        • Missionary Kid

          No dues, just spread the word about the fucking cult, Co$$$$$, and the evil that was LRH and all his spawn.

          I’m not, in any way gonna be like $cientology and try to sell something that should be free. Raise your right hand and affirm, “I am not a member of the Real Angry Level Club.”

          There, that’s all there is to it. Welcome to RALC. 🙂

          • Sherbet

            Me, too; me, too!

            • Missionary Kid

              Raise your right hand and affirm, “I am not a member of the Real Angry Level Club.”

              There, that’s all there is to it. Welcome to RALC. 🙂

              You are now entitled to Joke and Degrade about Co$ as much as you want, just as you have before, but now you can say you’re in the club.

            • Sherbet

              Oooh, I love the feeling of belonging! Group hug and a round of “Kumbaya.”

            • Missionary Kid

              At least all it took was a few seconds and a mouse click. That’s better than Your life, money, credit, and PTSD that all things Ron involve.

            • Sherbet

              Amen, to that, Kid.

            • Poison Ivy

              “I would not belong to any club that would have me as a member” – Groucho Marx

  • Espiando

    A couple of days ago during the Independence Day thread, L. Wrong posited the possibility of a Sheryl Crow Scino parody. Unfortunately, it was late in the thread and the challenge was not taken up. So I ran across the mention and had a think during my shit/shower/shave/smoke. Unfortunately the second, I took the easy way out and chose one of the easiest Sheryl Crow songs to parody. So, to the tune of “Soak Up The Sun”, here’s “Thetans To Run”:

    ———-

    My ex-friend the SP
    Does audits in his RV
    He can’t afford his gas
    Guess he really is a DB

    I can’t have digital
    Can’t look at diddley-squat
    There’s too much entheta
    It’ll cause my soul to rot

    I’ve got some thetans to run
    I’m gonna tell every one to just get off
    I’m gonna tell them that they’re the ones that I’m blame
    For stopping me from the fame of “moving up”

    I’ve got some thetans to run
    I’ve got some thetans to run

    I’ve signed for a billion years
    They don’t pay near enough
    To buy the things it takes
    To walk the Bridge to OTVIII, love

    Reached E/P with needle float
    I’m off to Flag, I’m on the boat
    Getting regged to go on L
    And Super Power, ain’t it swell

    I’ve got some thetans to run
    I’m gonna tell every one to just get off
    I’m gonna tell them that they’re the ones that I’m blame
    For stopping me from the fame of “moving up”

    I’ve got some thetans to run
    The session begins
    Got some thetans to run
    Gonna confess all my sins

    I know that Life has Keys
    Ron’s been the king of me
    You have a bank account, but, baby
    I’ve been through OTIII

    Reached E/P with needle float
    I’m off to Flag, I’m on the boat
    Getting regged to go on L
    And Super Power, ain’t it swell
    If you’re not here, then go to hell!

    I’ve got some thetans to run
    I’m gonna tell every one to just get off
    I’m gonna tell them that they’re the ones that I’m blame
    For stopping me from the fame of “moving up”

    I’ve got some thetans to run
    I’m gonna tell every one to just get off
    I’m gonna tell them that they’re the ones that I’m blame
    For stopping me from the fame of “moving up”

    I’ve got some thetans to run
    R2-45’s on, so watch me draw my gun

    ———-

    Thank FSM that parody is protected by the First Amendment. You know, the one that the cult wants you to waive your rights under…

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Nicely done. FSM says “You’re welcome”.

      Oh Monkeyknickers, we’ve got one for ya to sing.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    I’m going to try and answer many questions I’ve seen from commentors, like why do they go back, why not go to the police, why don’t the police act, what were they thinking, etc.

    The golden ring, the big carrot, the main counterfeit dream in scientology is not eternity. It is eternity where you are at total cause and while matter, energy space, time (MEST) is a word thrown around a lot, here is what it Really means to a long time, aging scientologist: No pain, no illness, no body deterioration, no grief, no losses, no need for bodies, no problem picking up a new one of their choosing, no problems for all eternity, as soon as they buy and complete ….Level X. If they don’t reach X before they die, they will be stuck for All Eternity screwed up. No matter what shape they entered scientology, the longer you are in, the more the crazy applications of Hubbard will screw you up even more. So these 10 to 30 year veterans are Desperate. There is always another “X” added on, and then every decade, a Do-Over of all the steps leading to whatever the top X level is at the moment. Crazy Desperation enters in sooner or later.

    The scientology scam has 3 separate manipulative enforcement prongs to keep them in control:

    1) For those who begin to suspect that eternity can’t be bought, the Hubbard “ethics” system is watching and recording every thought or change of heart. There is a list of Crimes that includes going to the authorities without clearing it with Sci Central. Scientologists believe that going to the police might mean that will be forced to see a psychiatrist or that psychiatrists will use it as an opportunity to hurt the sci organization. They are also taught that the wog justice system Only rewards criminals and punishes victims. there is another long list of punishments for those who go to the authorities including holding your eternity hostage, as well as your friends, family, job, career, finances, reputation.

    Those who quietly leave the organization are watched or kept tabs on through all their associates (which are listed in detail in their folders). It is Well Known in scientology’s OSA levels that it generally takes certain number of years for scientologists to wake up and they are aware of when Statutes of Limitations run out.

    2) For those who go to the authorities early on despite all the above, remember they Know that the OSA spy, harass team will be sent out which could induce family or friend loss, job and career loss, reputation smear, all while still in fragile recovery mode. That means losing Everything, so it may be hard to grasp how devastating this is in real life. If that doesn’t silence or cause retreat, and there is serious threat, the full on legal war machine is rolled out, legal guns a’blazin. It is well known there is a seemingly unlimited amount of $$$ to pay for the best lawyers in whatever category and that their folders of all kinds of information are back at the orgs. Now you might be getting an idea of the freakin’ unbelievable bravery of people like Laura DeCrescenzo. Few make it this far.

    3) For those who still endlessly ride the merry-go-ground grabbing at the Golden Ring of Blissful Eternity, when the squeeze really goes in, like agreeing to write up ethics reports on their own children or parents, or agreeing to throw their children into the Sea Org den of hell, or taking out loans under false pretenses, cashing in their children’s college education, cashing in their retirement fund, 3rd mortgage the house, and that being just the beginning of their career as immoral and criminal, there will be a point where they wake up, and most do. Some who stay are just narcissistic sob’s, some are mentally and often physically broken.
    This is the group that will do the dirty work, such as in the Scott Campbell saga.

    • Gerard Plourde

      A succinct explanation of how a cult works. This is why it’s so dangerous, so hard to escape and so hard to break up..

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        It’s pretty much like joining the mafia for the spaghetti sauce. Not a good idea.

        The stories, the books, the forums, the blogs, the lawsuits are all there to warn the younger generation and educate them what it is they would be getting into. Don’t be enticed by the “wins”, no matter how tasty the meatballs.

        • Gerard Plourde

          Excellent advice.

        • Captain Howdy

          The big difference between the church of scientology and the mafia is the mafia actually go to church on Sunday.

          • Bella Legosi

            {The Mafia doesn’t exist! They are all just misunderstood “businessmen” and “friends” of Frank Sinatra}

            • Missionary Kid

              Who are you? J. Edgar? Or, as he’s been called, Jedger? 😉

            • Bella Legosi

              {I don’t know what you are talking about you commie prevert! And there was ABSOLUTELY no pictures of Clyde and me at the beach!}

            • Missionary Kid

              Commie prevert? Yes, that’s me.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Hey hey hey. It’s Mr. Sinatra to you young lady!

            • Bella Legosi

              *sighs* So will you be leaving the dead horse head in my bed or on top of the comforter?

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              I actually think that one of the reasons DM gets such a kick out of being top dog is that he can call himself “Chairman of the Board” which was Frank Sinatra’s long time nickname. It has the “famous”, “mafia”, and “rich” connotations he so desperately desires.

            • Bella Legosi

              That’s a great observation! I forgot *Mr.Sinatra* was known as Chairman of the Board!

            • Poison Ivy

              Ditto, great point Michael.

          • PreferToBeAnon2

            and at least they make a decent cannoli

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Hey, that’s a classic now!

            • Captain Howdy

              Was it you? I can’t remember where I heard it.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              🙂

          • Missionary Kid

            I agree with THDNE. That’s going in my file.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          hah, just read what I wrote. Hey FOX, there’s a promo line under the sci sign id love to see:

          “Like joining the mafia for the sauce”

          • FistOfXenu

            THDNE, I like this 1 too. Your wish is my command:

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              wow, so fast. im having a dejavu OT moment. and in public too. how embarrassing. .thks

            • FistOfXenu

              🙂 While I’m here can I also suggest you go for some new patio furniture? Some thing with soft abstract shapes on a lemon yellow background would look better than that faded brown and green leaf pattern you have now.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              ack….

            • Poison Ivy

              You command and FOX obeys. You are At Cause over the shoopiness of FOX.

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              my new desktop picture!

        • Poison Ivy

          Tasty metaphor THDNE!

    • DeElizabethan

      Excellent!

    • Michael Leonard Tilse

      Yes, very true.

    • PreferToBeAnon2

      Thanks for writing that Hole!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      addition: Forgot to mention the U.S. leaned too far over the edge to protect religious rights. Needs to be changed so No crime can be committed in the name of any belief. It ties the authorities’ hands too many times, from local police on up.

      • pronoia

        Think about all the political energy and will which is going into protecting religious liberty from Obamacare. By e very same people who would say that churches have a right to mistreat or even abuse employees all in the name of religious freedom. Just plain old Owellian.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          I wish politicians had to pass psychiatric examinations,

          • Bella Legosi

            with all the money pharma does dump into the laps of politicians I have a feeling they would pass that test no matter how batshit they were.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              in that case, they need better drugs.

            • Bella Legosi

              Well they are making a literal killing with the opies and benzos………..I have heard rumors that they are developing a methadone-like substance for cocaine addiction. I am sure they will. I got $50 that it will be the Germans who make the ultimate “FukItaLL” remedy. They seem to do very well with speed and opies (I wiki’ed all the popular pharma heroins on the market today and all of the classics were developed by Germans. Not trying to bash them either! I like people who know their chemistry!)

            • Poison Ivy

              🙂

  • Sidney18511

    Several of the books that Jon mentions (plus much much more) can be found free on this site (not Jeff’s though)

    http://www.american-buddha.com/cult.scientology.toc.htm

    • richelieu jr

      Excellent! Wish there were a way to download them, though… Don’t much like reading long things on the computer…

      • Sidney18511

        Oh, but my bunker buddy….you can. I open them on an iPad which allows me to sent and store them in either kindle or iBooks.

        • richelieu jr

          Really? I’ll definitely try that! I have a Kindle on my Mac, but I couldn’t seem to do it…

  • scnethics

    Counterfeit Dreams is a excellent book. I think this book would be entertaining for anyone, not just exes and watchers, and I’m looking forward to seeing it as a feature length film. Jeff?

  • I loved Jeff’s book, among others. (John Duignan’s “The Complex” is another recent ex-member’s book which is definitely worth reading.)

    While it’s understandable that there is little to no market for translating foreign language books to English (unlike Jenna’s book which was translated to French, Italian and German, if not more) there are excellent books in French.

    Julia Darcondo’s “La pieuvre scientologique” is poignant, the story of a psychologist (oh yes!) who goes inside to get her son out and ends up being stuck for a long time. She tells the story of leaving Copenhagen to drive to Paris and getting a passenger – Larry Wollersheim on the run from the RPF! The book is, sadly, hard to get since the criminal organisation known as the :church” of $cientology bought the publisher and thereby the rights. It was never issued again…

    • richelieu jr

      Oh j’ai bien envie de lire ce livre!

      • Poison Ivy

        Et moi aussi, Monsieur Le Cardinal!

  • Chocolate Velvet

    I highly recommend Robert Kaufman’s Inside Scientology.  I read it a few months ago, and found it enlightening.  It is out of print, but widely available on the ‘net as a free PDF. It is important to note that Bob was the very first to reveal the OT three materials in print, back in 1972, and he paid a heavy price for it.  He was hounded and harassed, of course.  The usual terror tactics.  The COS did their best to ruin his career as a concert pianist, sabotaging important performances and so on.  His book was a milestone in the exposure of the scam, and he is all but forgotten now.  This is unfortunate, as I think he deserves as much appreciation as any of the current wave of noisy exes.

    Even better, Bob is a great writer and does an excellent job depicting what it was like for a typical public scilon in the late 60’s and early 70’s.  If you have wondered how things worked in the cult back in the good old days under L Ron, here it is.  He got into the cult through a friend who had a franchise, and eased him into regular auditing.  As Bob’s skepticism waned, he eventually decided to travel to St Hill, against the advice of his auditor-friend, who has some issues with how the official church runs things, and often ignores policy in his auditing work.   This is when Bob got a taste of the original “ideal org”, and the true cult experience.  Uh oh.

    In a matter of months, Bob was falling apart, and wound up having a mental breakdown.  The constant ethics and fundraising pressure was just too much.  Sound familiar?  Eventually, he got out, and returned to the US.  He decides to leave the cult behind.  However, his independent (franchise) auditor friend adds the final insult.  He was desperate to help repair the damage Bob suffered, and had gone to AOLA to learn some special new auditing processes at L Ron’s personal behest.  He begs Bob to let him help… FOR A FEE.  Bob sees this as the final outrage, walks away, and decides to write a book soon after.

    Same as it ever was, in the cult of scientology.  Check out Robert Kaufman’s book to see just how true that is.

    • Andrew Robertson

      Robert Kaufman’s excellent book ‘Inside Scientology’ (1995 Revision) can be downloaded here:

      http://www.xenu.net/archive/books/isd/isd.htm

      Andrew

      • Chocolate Velvet

        Excellent! Thanks, Andrew. 🙂

    • ze moo

      ” Same as it ever was”, the difference between clamatology run by Lrooon and as run by Miscavige.

      I feel like some Talking Heads..

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7pVjl4Rrtc

      • Chocolate Velvet

        Nailed it.
        I often think of this song re: scientology. Some of the lyrics seem quite apt.  Especially when you think of Marty and Debbie and other execs who wound up RPF’d and then blew.  For instance:

        “You may find yourself living in a shotgun shack 
        You may find yourself in another part of the world …
        You may ask yourself, well, how did I get here? …
        You may ask yourself, where does that highway lead to? 
        You may ask yourself, am I right, am I wrong? 
        You may say to yourself, my god, what have I done?”

        And this one:
        “Into the blue again, after the money’s gone…”

        Hmmm…  😉

      • pronoia

        One of my favorite albums ever.

    • BosonStark

      Something I think I remember liking from Kauman’s book — it’s been a while since I read it — was that after he woke up, he listened to some of Hubbard’s lectures on tape and could not figure out how he tolerated hours of listening to such crazy babble, where Hubbard often makes no sense, runs off on tangents and sounds like a loon in general. And I’m talking about the average Hubbard lecture, and apart from any problems with understanding word definitions or methodology.

      It’s a problem I still wrestle with: How to people lap this shit up like it’s the holy grail? The answer, I guess is a combination of brainwashing, placebo effect, and “on a gradient.”

  • Bob

    I was around during the Dianetics book campaign and I felt, for the first time that the church got it right. The very simple TV ads seemed to grab the public in the right way. We were proud of the presentation. At the time I thought; “wow this guy Miscaviage really knows his stuff”! Little did I know that it was Jeff who was the man behind the book. But it ALL makes sense now. From what I heard once the success hit, Mousyscabiage took all the credit and started making changes and the campaign stopped being effective.
    Jeff has the distinction of actually improving the name Dianetics and Scientology. Both a curse and a blessing.
    I truly wish him well.

  • richelieu jr

    Hawkins’ account of not using the ‘technology (when will these people learn the difference between ‘technique’ and ‘technology’? Talk about get yer f’in dictionary out–Maybe all of $cientology comes from a misunderstood word?), is yet another piece of evidence for the fact that Miscavige’s problem is not a failure to follow Hubbard’s dictates, but one of following them too well.

    Their management techniques are yet another example of provable, cartesian evidence being unable to withstand what ‘Ron Said’… ROn said hitting myself in the head with this hammer would cure my headaches, but they’re getting worse! I must be hitting myself wrong/too lightly,/ too hard– Wait, I’ll buy an ergonomic, silver-plated, sweatless refined, balanced Hubbard hammer– That’ll do it!”

    • PreferToBeAnon2

      My pet peeve is the use of the word “data.” Any information received is described as such–as if it is more scientific sounding.

      • Espiando

        My pet peeve is when they use the words “datums”. The entire wog world misuses “data” as a singular. Trust the Scilons to get the plural wrong instead.

        • Poison Ivy

          Grammar is not highly regarded among the Scientological Elite, as the “Sunday Funny” flyers will all attest!

        • BuryTheNuts2

          My pet peeve is when they use words like..um…Science!

      • Semper Phi

        Oh, me too. And although I’ve been out for a few years, I *still* constantly have to fight the urge to use “data” instead of “info.” That, and “comm.” So odd how two of the Sci-terms I thought were stupidest for everyday speech are so hard to lose…

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          me too..data and cycle and comm. dev-t was the hardest, I liked it! it was one of those casserole words…very convenient and quick.

          • PreferToBeAnon2

            “casserole words” Great phrase!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              when I was losing my sci vocabulary, I tried to come up with an alternative word for dev-t. I had to start writing it out and it Looked like one of my everything in the fridge fast casseroles. tru story

      • Poison Ivy

        Just wrote that above! “Tech” “Data” @semperphi:disqus I had forgotten about “Comm”. Blechh. Let’s put on our white coats and pretend we’re scientists!

      • Remy

        Wow- that irritates the hell out of me too, as a physicist.

    • Espiando

      All of Scientology does come from three misunderstood words. Those words are “modern”, “science”, and “mental health”.

      • pronoia

        Four. That last word is religion.

        • Missionary Kid

          Bingo. You added the right word to an excellent post that I copied to my file.

        • Espiando

          No. They understood “religion” perfectly well. At least when it came to the First Amendment and tax break parts of the definition.

          • pronoia

            You have a point: the IRS also practices a version of “What’s true for you is what is true for you.” Which has nothing to do with the prior (pre-tax exempt definition) meaning of religion.So while I will concede that Hubbard didn’t begin this process, he sure taught a lot of people how to take it to more and more ridiculous lengths.

            Remember, they used to trot Heber out in a priestly collar.

            • Espiando

              In college, I dressed in drag for a modern-dress production of Shakespeare’s “The Comedy Of Errors”. That didn’t mean that I cut off my dick for the duration of the run.

              Heber took it in stride. Remember, he had some acting credits himself. Just a costume. Just a role. Nothing more significant. Maybe Karen can tell us what Heber thought of doing that.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              In college, I dressed in drag for a modern-dress production of Shakespeare’s “The Comedy Of Errors”.

              Pics please….

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              “Remember, they used to trot Heber out in a priestly collar.”

              Such a mockery and a slap in the face to those who went to seminary and earned the right to wear that. The same with the fake Navy uniforms. The Scions sure like to play dress up.

            • Poison Ivy

              Oh, the fake Navy uniforms! Such an insult, as you say. But perfectly in character for a guy who was laid up with Conjunctivitis ( don’t even want to think about why he kept getting THAT bacterial infection) and later claimed a Purple Heart. Disgusting.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I remember watching Heber on Phil Donahue and actually thinking that maybe they weren’t so bad….Just misunderstood.

              Oy vey…I was such a sucker!!!

      • richelieu jr

        Yes, Yes, and YES!!!!!

    • Exterrier

      The blog is on fire with wit today. Keep it up!!! I have not run out of up arrows yet!

    • Poison Ivy

      “Maybe all Scientology comes from a misunderstood word” Indeed, Cardinal!

      The term “The Tech” is my personal absolute Scientology Pet Peeve Term of All Time.

      From everything that I have heard/read/understood from the Hubs and his most fanatical followers, “The Tech” is supposed to indicate “Technology”, something quantified, tested, scientific. Perhaps it is indeed short for “Technique”, but Hubbard did EVERYTHING for a reason. He wanted Scientology to sound cutting edge, 50’s space age, and scientific – as Espiando says ‘Modern/Science/Mental Health’ – even the words “Dianetic” and “Scientology” are created to indicate things with some actual scientific weight behind them.

      All the jargon of Scientologese ‘ “outpoint” “data” “cognition” ad naseum – all designed to give the veneer of processes researched and vetted.

      Oh, how I hate that about Hubbard! This alone exposes the inbred craftiness of his con!

  • richelieu jr

    Why does reading ‘Pub Orgs in Edinbourg’ make me giggle each time I read it?

  • richelieu jr

    The Bunker “..Even the most advanced system of zombification of all time can be overcome”!

    • PreferToBeAnon2

      I snorted at ‘zombification’ too!

  • richelieu jr

    I wonder when Jeffersonn escaped that time– I used to live in a sort of lesbian commune right off the 101 freeway at Vermont, and I did indeed see a lot af crazy stuff go down around there…

    • Ms. B. Haven

      No pun intended I’m sure…

      • richelieu jr

        Oops!

    • PreferToBeAnon2

      ” I used to live in a sort of lesbian commune right off the 101 freeway at Vermont”

      That would be a great first line of a book.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        I would read that book….for sure!

      • richelieu jr

        Who knows, someday it might be…

        • sharon brown

          Oooh, can’t wait , please do !

    • Spackle Motion

      I’ve seen some strange stuff on Western in Hollywood, and I’m pretty sure it had nothing to do with the Cult, unless they have trannie hookers working undercover to recruit police officers.

  • Pete Griffiths

    “…the most advanced system of zombification of all time…” I love taht line, Jon 🙂

    • FistOfXenu

      Agreed, it’s brilliant. Thanks for the reminder.

      • sugarplumfairy

        Best ever..

      • Captain Howdy

        Outstanding!

  • PreferToBeAnon2

    Here is my kvetch about No.9–the signing away of your First Amendment rights. In my business, I regularly sign away such rights in Non-Disclosure and Proprietary/Confidentiality agreements. I also have signed similar knee-deep paperwork for my classified government security clearance. All of this documentation are SPECIFIC. They detail what are considered to be trade secrets, what could compromise the standing of the company, and what body of information, if disclosed, compromises national security. They provide parameters. Clear parameters. This shit is too broad.

    They present it to Scions as something perfectly legal and enforceable. And, coming from Church management, they assume it is ethical (in the true sense of the word) and is just a formality. I have seen this document a few times on the net posted by ex’es (even just recently by that Russkie woman, Yuliya, who infiltrated the Sea Org). Clearly, it is used as a tool to manipulate and intimidate people–not to protect something proprietary.

    More than anything, I wish some enterprising First Amendment attorney would take this on as a class action. Succeeding in this, I think, would also make the IRS take a second look. That 401(c) status is given because the organization is to ultimately benefit the community, not control it. And while they are at it, they can tackle the Freeloaders Debt too.

    • Poison Ivy

      “I wish some enterprising First Amendment attorney would take this on as a class action.”

      Brilliant idea, PTBA2!

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Actually,…(and I hate to say this as I too must deal with US government contracts).

      But when you say this is too broad?

      …I must say the same thing about those Government contracts. They try to “control” everything, but they dilute the specific powers of control in the process by adding all of these nebulous and ocassionaly contradictory statements..

      But you are totally right in the CoS taking it to the nth degree and making it…well, ridiculous!l

      In all honesty, I don’t know how any of there documents can be held up as binding. They really are that ridiculous!

  • disqus_SPiN5N4Adl

    Love, love, love Jon Atack. (How is his last name pronounced BTW?)

    What I’m interested in is whether he has spoken at length with either Rathbun or Rinder (both of whom I respect) and, if.so, what those conversations looked like.

    Thanks much,
    SPiN

  • noseinabk

    Did John P. blow?
    Did he clear vacation time with anyone?
    13 days since his last post. I think he will need a Sec Check from Bury when he gets back.

    • Bella Legosi

      Should we start a rumor that he is Snowden to flush him out? 🙂

      he is missed………..

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        He’s NOT?

        • Gerard Plourde

          And here I thought Global Capitalism Inc sent him to Egypt to overthrow Morsi and raise oil prices.

          • Bella Legosi

            O_O

            good point!

          • Espiando

            Hey, I made that joke two days ago.

            • Gerard Plourde

              What can I say? Great minds. . .

        • Bella Legosi

          Mind has been blown 50ft outta itself!

          • Missionary Kid

            {Mind has been blown 50ft outta itself!} How appropriate.

            • Bella Legosi

              I havent used that one in awhile!

      • Poison Ivy

        Perhaps he’s Snowden’s ride to Venuezula?

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Tell Bury if he tries to use that line about no wifi on the yacht… he probably has satellite.

    • Remy

      He’s watching and waiting, guaranteed…. don’t worry

  • WowWow

    Hey Tony, what are donations to you used for? Care to share?

    • Espiando

      New account. Provocative statement. It’s pretty nice outside. Isn’t there anything you can do on this holiday weekend other than Dead Agent?

      • sharon brown

        Yeah, like stink up some other space or better yet play in traffic ! To my friends, excuse my rude behavior.

        • sugarplumfairy

          At least you didn’t call him a wanker..

          • sharon brown

            I was trying to show some hospitality, but I was thinking what MK said !

        • Missionary Kid

          Let me say, no apology is necessary.
          Let me put this as politely as possible: Fuck him. Please downvote him.

          • pronoia

            Yeah! Downvote WowWow, not . . .

          • sharon brown

            I Love you MK , I couldn’t have said it Better myself, but that’s why I hang out here !!:)

            • Missionary Kid

              You’re very welcome.

              BTW, I went to high school with a Sharon Brown. She was so good looking, she intimidated a lot of guys, me included.

              At my 50th reunion last year, I got to tell her so. She smiled, and told me that she didn’t know that when we were in school together.

              It’s amazing what you don’t know how to say when you’re young.

            • sharon brown

              True, but look at us now ! We’ll say things people don’t even want to know , that’s Freedom ! 😀

            • Missionary Kid

              That got a laugh out of me. Thanks.

      • Gerard Plourde

        Apparently didn’t stick around after posting. I guess it was too dangerous. WowWow might learn something from us PTS’s and SP’s. So much for “Confronting Suppression”.

      • q-bird

        The answer to his question is so obvious Espi – is it not?!

        Tony shares everyday. That’s his job, to share accurate information.

        He is compelled to tell the story and get it right.

        EVERY DAY.

        period.

        Donations are what make this blog possible.

        Wow Wowie is simply too dense to get it – poor dear.

        • FistOfXenu

          Not dense. Desperate to strike an effective blow against an enemy. Then he got here are was so enturbulated he ran away to KR himself and pay for his ethics repair.

        • DeElizabethan

          Also if I am correct, he didn’t comment on the OP just questioning TO. Insidious cult people.
          Yes, reminds me to donate, so thanks wowie!

      • Missionary Kid

        Don’t forget to downvote.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Ok

    • sugarplumfairy

      Wanker..

      • Espiando

        If he’s OSA, he’s not allowed to wank. If he does, it’s sec check time.

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          Have you ever seen the “don’t wank” booklet the Mormons put out for boys? I got a copy. It’s priceless!

          • Espiando

            I saw it once. I had the same reaction to it as I do to anti-smoking PSAs: every time I see one, I light up.

          • stateofcircle

            PLEASE tell me it is on the Internet somewhere. Googling “Mormon don’t wank” and the like isn’t producing results. I need to see this!

            • Espiando
            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Nope, this one:

              http://www.lds.org/bc/content/shared/content/english/pdf/language-materials/33382_eng.pdf?lang=eng

              Don’t start that “little factory” or else!

            • Espiando

              Yeah, you’re right. I thought the one I linged to was the updated, generalized version. But that one has some really lulzy material too.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              You gotta be careful where you “ling” to or you might end up with Lisa asking you questions for a TV show.

            • stateofcircle

              Good thing L.Wrong found you the right one, who knows what horrible things you were unknowingly doing to yourself because of old information! Another life and dong saved by the Bunker.

            • Captain Howdy

              Keep your hands off the valve!

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              Speaking of valves, Cars has not returned. Hope he is ok… he left to take care of his mother

            • Captain Howdy

              Yeah, I hope he is also.

            • Missionary Kid

              They said that they don’t have any access to the net where they are. I think it may be a long term matter. I, for some reason, thought Cars was a woman.

            • stateofcircle

              She is a woman, she declared so on one of her last posts as well as that nice post to Laura.

            • Missionary Kid

              I think it was the fact that her avatar is a classic Mercedes 300SL Gullwing coupe throws everyone.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              That car makes me drool…and drool…and drool some more….

            • Missionary Kid

              This is for a very special, aluminum bodied car: THE FINAL SELLING PRICE OF THE 300SL GULLWING WAS A WHOPPING $4.62 MILLION (There were only 29 built).

              Most steel bodied ones in great shape go for around a million.

              Keep drooling.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Ok. I stopped drooling and I just had a mild stroke instead!!!

            • Missionary Kid

              This is one case where I’d rather have this 50 year old car than the newest gullwing from Mercedes. It was really the first supercar.

              It had fuel injection and all sorts of innovations in it. The only drawback is that if you live in the desert, it’s not a good car to have because the ventilation is lousy.

              If I win the Lotto, I’ll give you a ride in mine. (Fat chance I’ll win, or even enter).

            • BuryTheNuts2

              OH OH……I stopped at an Atlantic beach today on the way back from my little road trip.
              Six Russian WW II bombers were doing drills and practice over the area and they were fabulous. We were able to watch them for about 30 minutes, right over our heads.
              They were doing formations and even what appeared to be stalls!
              It was awesome!

              Of course the entire time…all I could think of was the 1945 lost squadron….

            • Missionary Kid

              There aren’t any WWII Russian bombers flying in the U.S., let alone 6 of them. What you probably saw were 6 Yak 52 trainers. Here’s the Wikipedia article on them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-52

              They have a single engine, retractable gear, and have a rounded vertical tail. It’s a fun plane to fly. Here’s a picture of one.

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Yakkes_Yak-52_RA-3085K.jpg

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Maybe, but the tail looked more cubic or square. These looked almost identical to the Japanese Zero (again…the tail is throwing me)…but they had the red russian stars on the underside of the wings. (So we assumed)

              whatever they were…It was a great thing to be able to see them.

            • Missionary Kid

              They were probably Chinese-built Nanching CJ6 trainers. They also have red stars on the wing and fuselage. They also have a bent wing.

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanchang_CJ-6

            • BuryTheNuts2

              That is a bingo MK. That is the one!
              We noticed an odd flash of the wings in the sun. The bent wing explains that strange “effect”.
              These folks were great to watch.

            • Missionary Kid

              It’s also a kick in the ass to fly formation, too. It’s not easy, and it requires real concentration. You always keep your eye on the lead plane.

              Believe it or not, but it’s easier to fly formation close than it is further away, because you’ll see the relative distance and bearing more easily when you’re close.

              I’m assuming that Atlantic Beach is the one close to Jacksonville.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Close…. Flagler,…..but they took off back toward J-ville when they were done.

            • Missionary Kid

              They could be based at a number of airports. Probably not Jacksonville International, because having a hangar there tends to be expensive, and with the security, it’s a PITA to have a BBQ and have people drop in.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              LOL, actually we were thinking they “might” be out of Bunnell.

              So many small airports to train the terrorists in around here…sighs!!!

            • Missionary Kid

              Realize that everyone at small airports are now on alert, and people who hang out there usually are fairly right wing and suspicious of someone new, especially furriners. 9/11 ain’t gonna happen again.

              On the other hand, I happen to be a white, 60+ year old male, and all I have to say is that I’m an airport bum, and I’m welcomed into most every hangar, as long as I am polite and they can see that I love airplanes.

              It is the one time when one can call themselves a bum and be welcomed somewhere with practically open arms.

            • Captain Howdy

              Shturmovik?

            • Missionary Kid

              No. As I later replied to BTN2, they were Chinese-built Nanching CJ6 trainers.

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I miss her too. I love it when she talks to herself!
              Or when Tony O. K-POW’S her and makes her pee herself!

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              I agree. Female rings a bell. I remember being pleasantly surprised that a woman would be such a car nut given the references made. Gotta find me one of them. Yes, I’m stereotyping and I like it.

            • Missionary Kid

              It’s like the old joke. Looking for a wife who has a boat and likes to fish. Send picture of boat.

            • MissCandle

              SHE

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              I stand corrected. {but I sit perfectly fine, thank you}

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              You know, all of the meeting houses have the same artwork hanging along the hallways. I have little names or captions for them all. My favorite depicted Jesus washing someones feet. I titled it “Who knew that he ran a pedicure service too?”

              Hey, I found it!

            • Missionary Kid

              I had a friend years ago, who every time he saw a sign that said, “Jesus Saves,” he’d say, “Hey look, a Jesus bank.”

              Another used to say, “Jesus saves, but Moses invests.”

            • Semper Phi

              No kidding, when I was very young there was a big “Jesus Saves” sign on a church in town, and I really did think it was a bank. Their slogan: “Jesus saves; so should you!”

            • Missionary Kid

              Jerry used the phrase in about 1963, and it probably had been around much longer.

            • MissCandle

              The grocery store I frequent (Publix) requires its checkout clerks to tell each customer how much they saved on sales when they give you the receipt. For example: “Thank you, Miss Candle, you saved $__ today!”

              To which I always reply, “Hallelujah! I saved!”

            • Missionary Kid

              The Von’s where I shop has a coin dispenser for change. When the change drops, I say, “I won!”

            • BuryTheNuts2

              OK, I am going to think of that every god-damned time they (Publix) tells me that shit from now on.

            • DeElizabethan

              They must be “out-ethics” at my store, I have to look for myself. Dang!

            • stillgrace

              I get overcharged so much at my local Safeway, on January 1, 2013 I decided to keep track of how many times they “attempt” to overcharge me during 2013. Here it is July 6th, and yesterday was the TENTH time this year! From a few dollars here and there to this year’s record of $22!

              My favorite overcharge attempt was last year, where the deli counter slapped a sticker price of $97.50 on a pound and a half of Virginia ham! Probably an accident, but I never leave the checkout counter without perusing carefully my entire receipt!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              ^^^^THIS IS WHY BTN could not ever be Jesus!
              Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

            • BosonStark

              Do not tamper with the sacred power of creation!
              The “little factory” will empty itself at night.

            • Spackle Motion

              omg…..these poor kids actually have to abide by the bullshit printed in this pamphlet? I love the double speak here that states “perhaps you have not quite been able to resist, [but] the Lord still loves you” and then tries to tell you to control these thoughts like water in an orchard. This whole pamphlet begs the question of “If the Lord will still love me, then why is it a problem?”

              It’s not a wonder why Mormons get married so young. Sexual repression and religious fanaticism are a dangerous mix, so I’m impressed that there aren’t more Mormon young men going around and destroying things.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              The crazy thing is that there’s an awful lot of homosexual activity among the kids on mission in the LDS. That’s considered even worse than the self pleasuring. There’s a semi-secret homo deprogramming unit in Salt Lake for when they return home from their missions. More guilt and stress at the hands of a cult. Fuck ’em all.

            • Anonymookme

              Holy shite! Is that a young Mitt on the cover page of the “Just Sat No To Fapping” bulletin?

            • BosonStark

              The prophet Alma taught that sexual sins are more serious than any other sins except murder or denying the Holy Ghost (see Alma 39:5)

              Gotta do what Alma says, right?

      • Captain Howdy

        Don’t knock it unless..

        http://youtu.be/nkqfa-kaRFM

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          I almost afraid to click this link Howdy.

        • sugarplumfairy

          but you’re OUR wanker..

          =)

    • q-bird

      newbie comm-tater WowWow – you sure do have a lot of catching up to do…

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      {Tony doesn’t really accept donations. He’s paid behind-the-scenes by Big Pharma. The donate button is just a way to get your contact info.}

      You’re new, so these { } mean sarcasm. Thanks for playing.

    • PreferToBeAnon2

      Thank you for reminding me to donate!

      • Sandy

        PtBA2 – thank YOU for the reminder …

    • pronoia

      To suppress and shatter the church of scientology and to create an army of Potential Trouble Sources while generally sowing as much random enturbulation as possible.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        You forgot keeping the psychs’ yachts well oiled and stocked!

    • BuryTheNuts2

      See the registrar. Bring your credit card.
      Then shut the fuck up.

      • DeElizabethan

        Ha, ha. LUV it! Hope he reads it.

    • SP ‘Onage

      Wouldn’t OSA like to know.

    • stateofcircle

      I will give WW the benefit of the doubt and answer that running this blog, as well as writing his book, is Tony’s job, and as such, in it’s very nature, must be able to sustain itself financially as well as support Tony financially. He provides his readers, among others, a valuable (and entertaining) service, with which we have the option to pay for. Unfortunately, having a website in and of itself does not automatically generate any money, and even with advertising, any website may not be a very profitable venture. Because Tony cares more about quality and content, as well as the integrity of this site, he has said that he does not want to clutter the Bunker with ads and pop-ups and the like. He is also providing a vital public service in investigating and reporting on the subject of Scientology in educating people about the crimes and human rights abuses going on in their own back yard, and is providing it for free instead of charging a membership fee, which he could do if he wanted (and most of us would pay for).

      So, in short, just like you and I get paid for providing whatever service we provide to generate income to support ourselves, so does Tony, who works very hard to bring us important stories and information.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        “just like you and I get paid for providing whatever service we provide”

        If our visitor is indeed a Scilon, he/she is not used to this concept, but thanks for trying State.

        • stateofcircle

          You’re right, L. Wrong. But hey, at least we’re comming a previously unknown stable datum for them to postulate.

      • Proud to be an SP

        I always figured he does this full-time and probably needs to eat and pay rent.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          I also hope he feeds the cats and then buys lots of beer!

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          {But, if I find out TO has been eating anything except rice and beans, I’ll be a little upset.}

          BTW, whoever likened these snark marks to a vagina….thanks. Every time I see them I need to consult my mormon literature to “talk myself down”.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Vagina brackets!

    • Sidney18511

      He is going for an IDEAL UNDERGROUND BUNKER. wanker

    • Missionary Kid

      I don’t care if he spends all of his money on cocaine, male strippers and beer. It’s my money, and thanks for reminding me to donate. He’s providing a valuable service, IMO, and he does a great job.

      Let me put this in the most charitable missionary manner. Fuck you.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Confronted. Shattered. Who’s next?

        • Observer

          Such a masterful confront and shatter, too!

          I wonder if WowWow is Bodhi Elfman? This sounds a lot like the “you jelly?”/block confront he applied to Marc Headley.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            I snorted wine up my nose.

            You evil woman…

            I could drown!!!

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              I finally realized why Krusty wears those big, flowing dresses. It’s not to hide her size, it’s to hide snacks.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              That is the exact same reason I do it! You would be surprised how many sub sandwiches you can strap to your thighs!

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Would you like your sub toasted or thighed? Ewwwwwww to you too.

        • Missionary Kid

          I am a proud bunkerite. He pissed me off. I should thank him for the lulz.

    • Jeb Burton

      Nice hit and run wow. Why dont you ask DM where his donations go? We give freely to the treasure trove of knowledge. I doubt the donations hardly cover the costs of running a site like this.

    • Remy

      Which donations, the personal ones, or the ones from Big Pharma?

  • stateofcircle

    Just my two cents for Jeff about his book, since he frequents the Bunker: Counterfeit Dreams is one of my favorite ex books, if not my #1 favorite (BFG coming in close 2nd). His story is somewhat unique, due to us position in marketing and pubs, being responsible for the most widely seen Dianetics/Scientology campaigns, and being in the SO during both Hubbard’s and DM’s reign. He is an absolutely beautiful writer who really brings the reader into the story and making them feel as if they are right along side him. For these reasons, I think this book is one of the most important ex accounts, and should be read by anyone looking to learn more. I personally think that every single human being should read this book so they can fully comprehend the scope of evil, corruption and suppression of Scientology, and this is the book I recommend to anyone new to the subject. As some have already mentioned, Counterfeit Dreams would make an absolutely fantastic film, and while I’m sure the logistics of getting one made (i.e. fighting the cult’s inevitable protests and lawsuits to ensure it doesn’t happen) may be difficult, I think it would not only be a great movie, but a desperately needed public service.

    I instantly felt like I was in Jeff’s world while reading his book, and as such felt as though I knew him. That isn’t an easy feat for a writer to achieve, and I hope he continues to write more books. Thank you, Jeff, for sharing your experiences with all of us and giving us such amazing insight into your life and Scientology. You and exes like you have risked a lot to tell your stories and continue to inspire others to do so as well, and in exposing Scientology through more and more personal experiences comes more and more public awareness and understanding which, in my opinion, is one of the most effective ways to bring down this cult, and at the very least, force the cult to make some internal changes.

    • Poison Ivy

      “He is an absolutely beautiful writer who really brings the reader into the story and making them feel as if they are right along side him. For these reasons, I think this book is one of the most important ex accounts, and should be read by anyone looking to learn more.”

      Well said SoC. I love his writing, and I felt such compassion…and genuine empathy for him in his journey. His book so made it clear why CO$ would’ve appeared incredibly exciting and attractive to spiritual seekers, especially during the ’70’s. It also made it clear how insidious the mind control was – starting small and eventually destroying everything in its path. Plus the guy is so damn talented – I was face-palming throughout the whole section where COB starts sabotaging JH’s efforts – efforts which were WORKING! – in my view, because he was threatened. One of COB’s most legendary foot bullets ever. Thank God for it!

    • villagedianne

      I am a great fan of Jeff Hawkin’s writing and I agree that he has the best book. But I think Mark Headley’s Blown For Good might just make a better film. Musical chairs at Int Base, and the low-speed chase down the highway would be something to see!

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Why can’t we have both? Agreed, Marc Headley’s BFG begs to be made into a movie. It will get the most widespread audience and of course action packed!

        Jeff Hawkin’s book should be on required precollege reading list!

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    I was just thinking how funny it is that out of all the battles fought, growing list of books, articles, lawsuits, extensive forums, etc, it seems like South Park and the Tom Cruise Gets a Medal video are the two sources the youngest generation have turned to for learning about cults. It all started out with a crazy man acting like a cartoon guru and looks like it will end with a cartoon character and an actor acting like a crazy man.

    What a world , what a world. Who would have thought? Reminds me of this scene …

    http://youtu.be/j7GJcKuVGm8

  • PreferToBeAnon2

    I swear I just received this Inspirational Quote e-mail (something I subscribe to):

    Keep away from small people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great.
    — Mark Twain

    Didn’t think Twain new COB’s height.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      I love Mark Twain. He would love this place. But then, we’d Never get anything done.

  • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

    Jefferson Hawkins blew and this is his loss.

    He will miss out on the Golden Age of Tech II and the its special new rundown wherein Scientology parishioners live in humid caves in Mexico that reek of bat guano, this while they undergo weeks of extensive sec checks on past life crimes.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Sec checks AND bat guano?

      This sounds fabulous!
      I can hardly wait for GAT III!!!

      • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

        Yes, Sec checks AND bat guano!

        Bat Guano Tech will boom the Orgs!

        • Missionary Kid

          Why limit it to bat guano? Everything involved with Co$ is guano.

        • Espiando

          Are there any more rundowns planned named for characters in Dr. Strangelove? If so, sign me up for the Merkin Muffley Rundown ASAP.

          • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

            Espiando, we in RTC understand that you are interested in the “special” GAT II Rundowns, yes? You like to play rough? Splendid. Please let us know if you can bend over and grab your ankles for an extended period of time while being sec checked by a movie star.

            http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a563/OTVIIIisGrrr8/drstrangelove-sellars_zpsecd87c70.png

          • Captain Howdy

            I wanna do the Major Kong Rundown. It looks like fun.

            • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

              COB RTC David Miscavige is, as we speak, personally piloting the Major Kong Rundown and taking the entire Church of Scientology along with him for the ride!

              http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a563/OTVIIIisGrrr8/3042166857_24fbffcecd_z_zps0f998e9e.jpg

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              OTGrrr8. I think you might want to get a Message to Miscavige. It’s from the Commodore. Get out your decoder ring and the tinfoil hat, the one with the 50’s rabbit ears. Uh Oh…

              http://arstechnica.com/science/2013/07/mysterious-radio-bursts-come-from-outside-our-galaxy/

            • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

              We in RTC know all about these signals. They are part of the COB’s efforts to put in Ethics on this planet.

              The signals originate from T4 and are then rebroadcast from Marcabia as part of the Miscavige Interstellar Network Digipeater — Fully Understood Conceptual Knowledge.

              You are not safe from these radio waves even with a tinfoil hat.

              The Church Scientology will get all of you — and your little dogs too!

          • Robert Eckert

            I’ll go for the Buck Turgidson rundown myself.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Is there an open bar though? Miscavige needs some to pull something tasty out of his old bag for his hungry hounds before He starts looking like an appetizer. Oh yeah, open bar with free appetizers?

      • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

        Scientologists may not consume alcohol when they are being audited, so no, there will be no alcohol. However, there will be Cal-Mag smoothies flavored with mango and bat guano.

        COB’s big GAT II technical breakthrough is that living in a humid dark cave and eating bat guano enhances the ability of Scientology parishioners to obey COB’s command intention.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          That is Sure to work, OTGrrr8! Miscavige is beyond majestically magnificently masterful and wise. I am So looking forward to his customers, I mean, parishioners to get wind of his latest pearls. I am expecting Great Returns!

        • EnthralledObserver

          BAT II – Batshit Age of Tech II… as if the first Age wasn’t Batshit enough!

    • Captain Howdy

      OTVIIIisGrrr8!, why don’t you show them the promo film for the BG Rundown?

      http://youtu.be/4mujk825LXk

      • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

        The BG Rundown is even more intense than the promo film!

        COB and OSA Witch Donatella Kevenaar prowl the caves seeking Out Ethics Scientologists whose meat bodies they can rip apart and eat!

        Warning: If you go Out Ethics on the BG Rundown your flesh will be ripped from your body! Your still-beating heart will be eaten by these two in front of your own eyes!

        http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a563/OTVIIIisGrrr8/the-wizard-of-oz-monkey-2_zps392d946c.jpg

        • ze moo

          When you’re talking repression and fear, you just can’t go wrong with flying monkeys…

          • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

            Flying monkeys are a major incident on the wholetrack bigger than even volcanoes and nukes.

        • Bella Legosi

          Thanks for restimulating the Donatella engram! Is it part of confront and shatter when she stands in your bubble and just smiles at you? Well, it worked! The group I was with practically evaporated once she showed up with the Squirrel Buster guy!

    • EnthralledObserver

      I first read this line “and its special new rundown” as “and its special new uniform” heh heh… if they got a new uniform out of it well at least it was Something! Jefferson IS missing out!

  • aquaclara

    Jon, your book is so well done. I appreciate hearing your insights about a fellow writer. I am looking forward to reading Jeff’s book. The collective body of work now out about the cult is significant. But even more outstanding is that each book, each article, each story made public gives courage to those who are still suffering from the hands of the cult. I hope we soon reach the tipping point where the harassment and personal attacks by the cult cease.

    It’s time for the cult to end their run, and give up the secrets. Each new page brings us closer.

    Thanks for a great review today, and for taking more than one for the team.

  • Spackle Motion

    I’m getting Disqusted with the “403 Forbidden” error messages on Disqus. I really don’t understand why this commenting platform has so many glitches.

    • Espiando

      Because they recently switched to the Golden Age of Diksuq. We’ll have to wait for the Golden Age of Diksuq 2 for all of the {features} to be removed. The good news is that commenting will speed up when it’s implemented. The bad news is that it’ll take 16 years to get rolled out.

      • Proud to be an SP

        Do they need to open a giant building to go along with it? And then we can all get retrained on how to comment.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          And if we don’t do it right…well, there is always the shredding floor……………

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Diksuq Supahpowuah!

        That is my perceptic!

      • EnthralledObserver

        And now we’re all going to have to PAY… again and again and again!

  • El_Jeffe

    Jefferson Hawkins’ book is one of my favorites, too, and is a must-read for anyone wanting a first-hand account of the insanity of the leaders in the C of $. I got in to Scientology in the 80’s when Jefferson’s advertising campaign was going full-swing. Someone approached me on the street and asked me if I had heard of “Dianetics”. I said, “Yes” and went in to a {Mission} to buy the book & sign up for a Comm Course. I finally left after 28 years. Jefferson’s book filled in the gaps & answered questions about the insanity I saw around myself but did not dare ask about lest I be subjected to the Thought Police. I am so glad he was able to escape & make a normal life for himself.

    Other first-hand account books that stand out for me are Marc Headley’s, “Blown for Good – Behind the Iron Curtain of Scientology” (I love that title!), Jenna Miscavige Hill’s, “My Secret Life Inside Scientology and My Harrowing Escape” (Great account of what it is like growing up as a child in Scientology), Amy Scobee’s, “Abuse at the Top” (Miscavige beating up Jefferson Hawkins in her cubicle – What a scene!) and Nancy Many’s, “My Billion Year Contract” (Which has one of the most chilling first-hand descriptions of a person slipping in to a psychotic break that I have ever read).

    I definitely want to read the other books mentioned by Jon Atack from the earlier days. I have added them to my list. Thanks Jon and Tony O!

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Thanks for sharing Jeffe. It’s been a real Independence weekend.

  • Kim O’Brien

    Looks like i missed a few things while up in the mountains for the 4th ~

    • Missionary Kid

      Mostly a lot of J&D, but a few other items, too. Hope you had a good time.

    • PreferToBeAnon2

      Welcome back Kim! Check out the comments on the 4th–you will be quite moved.

      • Missionary Kid

        You’re right. Those are quite moving.

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Be sure to slog through the massive posts on the 4th. You’ll laugh, cry and be thankful for the wonderful group of folks here.

  • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

    Jeff Hawkin’s book is so well written, and Jeff being the marketing person, I’ve noticed ex members who had writing skills do the best books, and I agree with Jeff, that ALL of the ex member books ought be read.

    Someday, I hope someone helps the CMU site, Secret Library of Scientology, to put all the books there, for full public access, if the newer ex member authors are willing.

    I think for academic purposes, having all the ex member books in one location, is helpful for future experts wishing to see what this first 60 years of Scientology were about.

    Marty Rathbun’s 3rd book, is his best, and Marty’s chapter “Back at the Ranch” has more details about Hubbard’s final year of life, than has been revealed in any book or TV or media, to date. Lawrence Wright’s sort of blockbuster revelations about Sarge Steven Pfauth’s final descriptions of events around the end of Hubbard’s life, even more details of LRH’s end of life, are revealed very frankly in Marty’s book chapter “Back at the Ranch”. More unvarnished details of LRH’s final year of life finally were told by someone who firsthand witnessed LRH at the very end.

    I’m so glad ex members have written what they experienced firsthand. And that they continue to write their hindsight conclusoins.

    This last 6-7 years has been a real boon in Scientology history telling.

    • richelieu jr

      Quite agree about the books, but correct me if I’m wrong– Didn’t the closest Marty ever came to LRH was sitting outside a trailer and hearing his voice?

      • BuryTheNuts2

        That was my recollection too!
        But I suppose that doesn’t mean he didn’t know a LOT!

      • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

        Marty got more details public about LRH’s final year of life, by Marty’s interview with Sarge, compared to any reporter, ex member, alive. The point is new info, firsthand new info.

        Lawrence Wright’s “Going Clear” gave blockbuster new info regarding Hubbard, and Wright quoted the same source, Sarge Steven Pfauth.

        Marty’s chapter “Meanwhile, Back at the Ranch” gives excellent new details of LRH’s final year of life,due to Marty’s interview of Sarge Steven Pfauth, the same Steven Pfauth that Lawrence Wright quoted when Wright quoted Pfauth in the end of Wright’s book, which itself gave new info.

        new info and frank honest firsthand info about LRH, via Sarge Steven Pfauth, is my point.

        Marty’s book can be difficult to read through, and get to the raw good facts, due to some of Marty’s opinions. But there is some excellent new Hubbard history in Marty’s book, and Marty just prints out the Sarge interview, so Marty lets Sarge tell Sarge’s firsthand observations.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Sarge needs to TALK! Really talk!

          • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

            Getting people who should talk, to talk, is a skill, takes homework or takes the interviewer knowing how to present themselves and win a candid interview.

            Some people will not “talk” all of their own, it takes someone asking them for the history.

            Not everyone is a Jon Atack, Helen O’Brian, J.A. Winter, Bent Corydon, John Duignan, Nancy Many, Amy Scobee, Marc Headley.

            Which is why some people do like me, and just try to get media connected to the people, like Sarge, who have just such important firsthand info.

            Years ago, I so wished Mary Sue Hubbard would speak, then we found out she had passed away, unknown to the world, and it was too late to get her take on everything. One thing in Marty’s book, there are many names of people mentioned, a whole group of people who’ve only given limited interviews, like the Reisdorf sisters, and Terri Gamboa and others.

            Of course Sarge could fill in so many more details about Sarge’s life with LRH, in LRH’s final years, and I think there is actually a lucrative book were the right author to talk with Sarge, in a way that Sarge would be willing to say more.

            Marty’s 3rd book is very underrated, unnoticed, at the moment, though. it’s got a lot of material that I hope prompts others, like the Reisdorf sisters, Terri Gamboa, and others, like Bill Franks, to be chased up for their views on what Marty wrote about them.

            Marty’s book has some leads to further interviews and writing that some people ought dig up and do.

            In any event, these last 6 years have produced a lot of great new raw info.

            Pat Broeker is still alive, and he’s one who I hope is stirred to write or be interviewed, and take up some of Marty’s issues with Pat.

            “Meanwhile, Back at the Ranch” chapter is a must read chapter though!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Well, i did buy Marty’s newest book…even though I haven’t cracked it open yet.
              I am looking forward to reading it.
              But yeah, Pat Broker………..OH shiz………..a penny for his thoughts…..sheesh.

            • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

              Marty’s 3rd book is unlike his first 2 books. It’s more personal, it has some blindspots, but provides a very personal history of himself and overall is much more humble than his blog and first two books. He challenges some major pillars of Hubbard’s organized church, and Marty gives the full unvarnished raw latest new info on Hubbard’s final years, via Sarge, which hopefully might draw Broeker out of the woodwork, hopefully.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I will keep m fingers crossed Chuck,
              Broker speaking would be EPIC!

            • sizzle8

              From what I’ve read about Broeker, I wouldn’t expect him to tell the truth even if he started talking. That said, I hope he comes out.

            • DeElizabethan

              Maybe TO will review it more? Or could you?

            • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

              Marty brings up such new info, that changed some of my understandings of the late 1970s and up to the mid 1980s, that I think the people I mentioned, the Reisdorf sisters, Terri Gamboa (she is just unprecedented, due to Terri being above Marty, as he describes in his book, and Terri is the person who likely most could damage DM’s reputation for the years Terri was just under DM and Terri was at ASI).

              If you are familiar with what the Youngs, Stacy and Vaughn did, and what Jesse Prince did, by pulling back the curtain on Miscavige’s outbursts that the Youngs and Jesse witnessed, Terri is comparable to Norman Starkey in terms of “thinking” like what LRH wishes were.

              There are so many new details, so much new history, that it requires someone appreciate this new history detailing Marty’s done, and then do further interviewing, and really put together Marty’s info and get the Reisdorfs, Terri, and others, to give more info.

              I think about 20 people who lived through the 80s, some of the people in OSA then, in RTC then, and ASI then, need to digest all what Marty’s written, and get their comments.

              It’s a lot of new material history that needs be sidechecked, and “peer review” what Marty’s written, and THEN a review.

            • DeElizabethan

              Thanks Chuck. I’d be interested from ’79 – ’84. Does it tell much of the transition from GO to OSA?

            • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

              Marty tells of the rationale at the top of the movement, why OSA came into being, and gives plenty of context.

              He’s written extensively on his blog, and answered some questions in his comments on his blog, about OSA history, and the history of the OSA Network Orders (the repackaged Guardian’s Office and intel despatch orders from Hubbard).

              Now, the history of OSA Int, in full, all their years of focus on who they harassed, etc, has NOT been detailed.

              Per Responsibility of Leaders PL, Marty was above a lot of the dirty deeds, he did some himself, he does not detail all that he did, other than several very revealing general statements.

              I take issue with Marty’s coverage of Gerry Armstrong’s history though, Marty, and others still have blindspots regarding some of the cases in my opinion, Marty comes across less than humble and willing to hear detailed criticism of some of the things legally he perceived his way, and it might take some detailed back and forth with Marty, to dislodge him from his pretty much set in stone opinions about some people.

              So, no, no details like you expect, about OSA’s dirty harassment tactics against the hundreds of people OSA has harassed and fair gamed.

              Instead, you really get that LRH was wishing LRH did not have to hide, and be using assumed names, all his final years. The Sea Org Mission Impossible mission, called Mission All Clear, I was greatly better informed of the emphasis that the top ranked people were placing on it, and why Marty took the MAC mission so seriously.

              LRH was bummed out, per Sarge, that he never was going to be a free normal citizen as soon as he wished. He died, as we all know, before the top people, like Marty, obtained the “all clear” for him.

              Marty’s take on Mary Sue is surprisingly positive, where you’d think Marty was just a good Miscavige “henchman” and Marty was also anti Mary Sue. Not the case, as Marty explains his times with Mary Sue.

            • DeElizabethan

              Thanks Chuck.

            • sister wendy

              yes, thank you

            • aquaclara

              Just wanted to note how much your comments add here, Chuck. You have a phenomenal head for details and historical fact. Thanks!

        • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

          What Marty reported is not true.

          What COB said is true:

          http://youtu.be/YkIrwdpAW7s

          • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

            You’re absolutely right, of course. When Miscavige is lying, he’s really telling the truth, is all you need to understand! Lying makes everything make sense, at least, when Miscavige tells history.

  • richelieu jr

    $cientology reminds e of that episode of the Simpsons where Sideshow Bob keeps stepping on a rake and at first it’s funny enough then it become boring, then tiresome then funny, then boring, and eventually around to absolutely hilarious…

    Miscavige and co are absolutely persuaded that THIS time, that rake is just gonna hit someone else, well THIS time, no THIS time, no…..

  • Bella Legosi

    Ok….just woke up and guess what is on!? A Dick Cheny doco on Showtime. I hate this man! I hate him I hatehim. I have been yelling at my TV for the past half hour. I am pissed and thats all I am going to say about this heartless, Vogon-esk, waste of human life! Fucker. Cheeky. Evil. Bastard. Okay I need coffee, stat.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      I love you!
      And I am so NOT a democrat!

    • Missionary Kid

      Bella, don’t hold back. You are so repressed! Tell us how your really feel.
      You need some auditing to get rid of the Cheney engrams. Give me your credit card number, and I’ll take care of it.

      What, You don’t like Darth Vader?

      • sister wendy

        brilliant

        • Missionary Kid

          Not really, but I appreciate the compliment.

          • sister wendy

            brilliant for my brain then

      • Bella Legosi

        Now that I have properly woke up…….that was actually my toned down version! The TV and little bro got the uncut edition! Sometimes I wonder what it would be like if TVs could watch you back (like 1984), boy would they have a doosey of a time with me and my mom!

        • Missionary Kid

          I’d hate it when I’ve been sitting in my underwear watching the boob tube. 🙂 Actually, come to think of it, I wouldn’t mind, because it would gross them out.

          • Bella Legosi

            I am sure they have caught images of my hairy uncle in his tighty whiteys! He likes to fall asleep to the TV too! In a way it would be smart if they did have a tiny camera and watched you watching (actually I think they have the technology for this now; humans wouldn’t even be needed). It would give broadcasters and producers honest reactions to the crap they put on TV. Can you imagine how much FOX news would change if they found out only a few people actually like Bill O’Rilley? 🙂

        • noseinabk

          I know it would be fun if TV watched you back! When I was a kid my single Mom had to share a house with a women named Rose. Although only five years old or so, I remember her doing her makeup, dressing in her long flowing dress, and having conversations with the tv. For her it was guite a special event.

    • sister wendy

      you and my mother, but she’s on oxygen, and can’t yell very loud;)

    • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

      Scientology can help you.

      We have a special Flag-only rundown for people who yell at their televisions.

      • Bella Legosi

        RTC……dont ruffel the feathers of an already angry loon!

        I might take you up on that whole clay model thing. I can think of some interesting things I can do with a mock up of this evil ameba

        • BuryTheNuts2

          I want to see they clay demo of “Cheney shoots his buddy”.

      • Bella Legosi

        IF I take this Rundown….can I please have my goddamn burlwood pen?!

        • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

          Yes, but only after you pass a metered sec check to prove to us that you did not come to Earth with evil purposes to enturbulate COB.

          • Bella Legosi

            Okay okay, so how much EXTRA will it cost if we find out I was sent here with evil purposes against LRH himself? And do I really have to accept COB into my heart? Can I not just pray to Source? 😀

            So, do you want two checks? One for RTC and IAS or should I cut the $50,000.00 into $2,500 increments so as to not arouse the suspicion of the dreaded wog IRS?

            • noseinabk

              pst *whispers* Bella, don’t get your hopes up for that burlwood pen. If I remember correctly OT8 regged us for the pen and the mouse table on the VV and never did deliver.

            • Bella Legosi

              🙁
              I know……he keeps blaming people like Poison Ivy as the reason why we don’t get a burlwood pen. I am starting to suspect the pen…..gasps…..is a lie…..kinda like the cake in Portal!
              http://youtu.be/qdrs3gr_GAs

    • Anonymookme

      Seriously, it’s a good thing I don’t have Showtime or all manner of debris would be being chucked at the tv.

    • Spackle Motion

      That’s a good documentary. I thought it humanized him a bit, but showed him for what he is…..a pigheaded arrogant asshole. I really don’t know how he and Bush sleep at night.

      • Bella Legosi

        I am of the generation where Cheny is not to be considered human in any term or form. He is but an evil Bender, but without the charm and likability. I liked the doc, but it really did piss me off how fucking “matter of fact” they presented themselves and at the end they show him fishing!? I totally was like, “DUNK HIM! DO IT SECRET SERVICE!”.

        The music in the “World According to Cheny” is very reminiscent of the music they used in “The Fog of War” which is another great documentary IMO. That doco humanized McNamara and gave me a little understanding behind Rand, Johnson, and Vietnam.

        Come to think of it, Cheny is really my generations McNamera. Rumsfeld deserves a mention for being the greedy, treasonous, toad that he is too!

        AHHHHHH Engrams stimulated again! lol

        Deep Six them all! That’s my vote!

  • Remy

    So, Kim. I know you used to be so down on anyone who fell for Scientology. Do you still feel the same way?

  • Lady Squash

    Truly loved your book, Jeff Hawkins. Thank you for writing it. I really identified with the idealism, the effort to make things go right in spite of it all and the final straw. It all resonated with me. I also loved your book, Jon, a Piece of Blue Sky, but in a different way. The first time I read it, I was in denial, but now it just makes my heart hurt and my head spin. The truth hurts. But thank you. Eyes are better open. And thank you Tony Ortega for mentioning the other books from earlier decades. My reading list just got longer.

    • DodoTheLaser

      Re: Jeff’s book:

      ” I really identified with the idealism, the effort to make things go
      right in spite of it all and the final straw. It all resonated with me.”

      Re: Jon’s book:

      “The first time I read it, I was in denial, but now it just makes my
      heart hurt and my head spin. The truth hurts. But thank you. Eyes are
      better open.”

      I know the feeling too well, LS. Thank you for sharing. It gets a lot better. Best to you and yours!

  • DodoTheLaser

    Not sure what came first for me – reading (and eventually posting) on ESMB or reading Jefferson’s
    eye-opening “Counterfeit Dreams” book. It was around the same time – in 2010.

    Both helped greatly to connect the dots. Jefferson’s book really brought it home for me and definitely
    acted as a catalyst in my even greater awakening and a subsequent SP declare. Thank you, Jefferson!

    Counterfeit Dreams (what a great title, btw!), will be read by many current scientologists, imho.

    So as Marc Headley’s “Blown For Good”, which is my other favorite. Thank you, Marc!

    So as Jon Atack’s “A Piece Of Blue Sky”, which I read online when I was still deeply in and which
    planted some of the first seeds of serious doubt in my mind on the whole scientology shindig.

    Thank you Jon and Tony!

  • Jon Hendry

    Heh… Michael McKean on twitter:

    @MJMcKean
    Saw the original draft of Jerry McGuire. Line used to read “You had me at ‘hello’, but you nearly lost me at ‘Dianetics’.”

    EDIT: Doh, I see Tony retweeted it.

  • DodoTheLaser

    There are some fun things developing, as far as as unraveling another layer of scientology onion of lies.

    It has something to do with one of the OT VIII versions and LRH as a nice Antichrist (throw in the Helotrobus implants somewhere). Some blame it all on Steve Fishman’s shenanigans, if not for OT VIII’s and Class VIII’s who
    confirm its validity on Marty’s blog. Who knows. Interesting reads though, great for Sunday Funnies regardless.

    Links:

    http://scientologycelebrity.wordpress.com/2013/07/07/is-lrh-the-antichrist-was-jesus-a-marcabian-spy/

    http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/07/03/dangerous-thoughts/#comment-271527

    And here is the document in question – warning – it’s long (decide for yourself and don’t forget the popcorn):

    OT VIII: THE CONFIDENTIAL STUDENT BRIEFING DOCUMENT

    HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE

    Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex

    HCO BULLETIN OF 5 MAY 1980

    ISSUE I

    LIMITED DISTRIBUTION OT VIII Course Students OT VIII Auditors OT VIII C/Sea AO Review Auditors AO C/Sea

    OT VIII Series 1

    C O N F I D E N T I A L STUDENT BRIEFING

    By the time you read this I will no longer be occupying the
    body and identity that you have known as Ron. That identity continues to
    live in the hearts and minds of many as well as in on-Source tech and
    admin centers around the planet, and will inspire for years to come
    Scientologists and lovers of truth everywhere.

    What follows is a story that has been withheld, for reasons
    which will soon be obvious, until such time as there were enough OTs
    that something could be done about it. That time is now. It is not a
    nice or a pretty story, but I trust that having arrived on the OT VIII
    Course you are ready to hear it. You have undoubtedly heard pieces of
    data over the years that hinted at the greater untold reality of my
    mission here on Earth, but the story was never written, nor spoken, in
    its entirety due to security problems that have unfortunately always
    plagued the organization. It is only now that I feel it safe to release
    the information, although the time is rapidly approaching when I will
    have no choice in the matter, the hour draws that near.

    I am not going to delve too deeply into specifics as people
    have a tendency to bog themselves down in significance, which would only
    serve to delay the immediacy of the task at hand. Therefore I will be
    brief. Some eighty-odd million years ago Earth time (it actually dates
    at 78,395,042 but dates are a bit superfluous with this material) plans
    were drawn by a group outside the MEST universe for the eventual
    takeover of a good portion of this universe. Not a particularly large
    nor imaginative crew, their exterior perspective, however, gives them
    considerable advantage over the time-bound beings of the MEST universe.
    Borrowing from earlier operations such as Helatrobus, they conceived an
    ongoing implant, some portions of which have been fairly faithfully
    rendered in parts of the Bible. This implant, laid in by carefully
    controlled genetic mutation at Incident Two of OT III and periodically
    reinforced by controlled historic events since then, makes it
    effectively impossible for beings on the more heavily affected planets
    such as Earth to become free. It causes progressive genetic “evolution”
    that gives the subject population greater and greater susceptibility to
    the telepathic impingement and direction of the controllers. In its
    final stage the progression becomes almost geometric, and it is this
    final stage that we are rapidly approaching.

    Another aspect of this GE-line implant is that the body
    becomes in effect a sort of theta trap that kicks in heavily on the
    being should he attempt to expand his horizons beyond that of pure
    physical universe reality. There can be temporary key-outs which we have
    all experienced in varying degrees, but until this area is handled it
    can honestly be said that there is no hope for continued expansion. The
    good news is that once this is run out, expansion becomes rather
    effortless and almost automatic.

    No doubt you are familiar with the Revelations section of the
    Bible where various events are predicted. Also mentioned is a brief
    period of time in which an archenemy of Christ, referred to as the
    Antichrist, will reign and his opinions will have sway. All this makes
    for very fantastic, entertaining reading but there is truth in it. This
    Antichrist represents the forces of Lucifer (literally, the “light
    bearer” or “light bring”), Lucifer being a mythical representation of
    the forces of enlightenment, the Galactic Confederacy. My mission could
    be said to fulfill the Biblical promise represented by this brief
    Antichrist period. During this period there is a fleeting opportunity
    for the whole scenario to be effectively derailed, which would make it
    impossible for the mass Markabian landing (Second Coming) to take place.
    The Second Coming is designed, among other things, to trigger a rapid
    series of destructive events.

    With the exception of the original Buddhism, virtually all
    religions of any consequence on this planet, monotheistic and
    pantheistic alike, have been instruments to speed the progress of this
    “evolution of consciousness” and bring about the eventual enslavement of
    mankind. As you know, Siddhartha Gautama never claimed to be anything
    more than a man. Having caught on to this operation, he postulated his
    own return as Meteyya, part of which prophecy will have been fulfilled
    upon the passing of L. Ron Hubbard.

    For those of you whose Christian toes I may have stepped on,
    let me take the opportunity to disabuse you of some lovely myths. For
    instance, the historic Jesus was not nearly the sainted figure has been
    made out to be. In addition to being a lover of young boys and men, he
    was given to uncontrollable bursts of temper and hatred that belied the
    general message of love, understanding and other typical Marcab PR. You
    have only to look at the history his teachings inspired to see where it
    all inevitably leads. It is historic fact and yet man still clings to
    the ideal, so deep and insidious is the biologic implanting.

    It is a good joke that the Galactic Confederacy is associated
    with the Serpent in the Garden, the Beast and other emissaries of the
    “Prince of Darkness”. Yet in certain passages and esoteric
    interpretations of the Bible (much of which has been taken out and
    effectively suppressed for centuries) as well as the Kabbalah, the truth
    reveals itself quite nicely for the clever and the ungullible.

    So it really is a race against time and one that we happen to
    be losing at the moment, as the Implant drama inexorably plays itself
    out in spite of the breakneck pace I’ve managed to keep up these last
    thirty-five years.

    I had an inkling, but only that, of the insidiousness of this
    material as far back as 1945. Later, in characteristic over optimism, I
    thought that R6 would be the end of it. But that was followed by NOTs
    and the Purification Rundown and still the string continued to unwind
    with the ball at the end of it just out of sight. It makes one wonder
    about such things as fate and destiny, such was the resolve with which I
    managed to cling to that string, not often knowing how close I was to
    falling into the abyss myself. But destiny is merely the rationalization
    of feeble minds. Things don’t just happen, they are caused. And
    causative beings can undo the plans of madmen and would-be enslavers, no
    matter how long those plans may have been in the making.

    I will soon leave this world only to return and complete my
    mission with another identity. Although I long to stretch my arms back
    in repose on some distant star in some distant galaxy, it appears that,
    that is one dream that will have to wait. But my return depends on
    people like you doing these materials thoroughly and completely so that
    there will be a genetically uncontaminated body for me to pick up and
    resume where I left off. A body free of religious mania, right/wrong
    dichotomy and synthetic karma. The job ahead is far too tough to even
    contemplate doing with your standard — courtesy of certain
    other-dimensional players and their Marcab pieces, many of whom are
    right here in the general populace — genetically altered body.

    Without the biogeneric meddling of those who stand outside
    time (who cannot yet directly influence our world and must work through
    others) the dwindling spiral is not nearly as automatic and self-
    perpetuating as it appears. There are regions even in isolated parts of
    the Milky Way where poets are free to poet and magicians can paint
    reality with their magic wands and exteriorize without body kickback.
    But these areas unfortunately are fewer and fewer. I will return not as a
    religious leader but a political one. That happens to be the requisite
    beingness for the task at hand. I will not be known to most of you, my
    activities misunderstood by many, yet along with your constant effort in
    the theta band I will effectively postpone and then halt a series of
    events designed to make happy slaves of us all.

    So there you have it …. The secret that I have kept close to
    my chest all these years. Now you too are part of this secret and I no
    longer have to shoulder the burden alone or live with the possibility of
    body death before all the data could be released. And with this
    briefing I entrust to each of you the responsibility for this material
    until such time as I am able to return. For we have no help from any
    other quarter in this matter. The handful of secret societies throughout
    history that have caught on to this game have long since fallen by the
    wayside or been taken over and become instruments of the very menace
    they were set up to combat.

    The rundown is long and can be arduous, but it must be done
    thoroughly if there is to be any effect not only on the body of the
    pre-OT but the body of his or her progeny as well. There is some danger,
    but with OT VII thoroughly complete it is not nearly so great as the
    danger witnessed by assorted unfortunates who happened to stumble into
    this area in their sleep or in moments of reverie or snatch,
    experiencing an hitherto mysterious phenomenon known as “spontaneous
    combustion”.

    CAUTION: DO NOT BE PTS WHILE TRAVERSING THIS THIRD AND FINAL
    WALL OF FIRE But the area is well charted, the rundown many years in
    secret development, and by the time you read this undoubtedly completed
    on myself. The wins waiting you are like none that you have ever
    experienced, not just for you, but for your children, your children’s
    children and the whole of mankind, if we succeed. And we will. If we had
    time we would pity the many poor souls, from 1950 to PT, who chose such
    an exactly inopportune moment to drop off the road to truth and
    disconnect from reality, the full burst and glory of OT practically
    within their grasp. But we haven’t the time to “wax philosophic” or
    ponder might-have-beens. The rundown follows. Again I say, do it
    thoroughly add completely, for it is your ticket to the stars. And
    beyond!

    L. RON HUBBARD, FOUNDER

    LRH: lrh Copyright (c) 1980

    by L. Ron Hubbard

    ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

    Source: http://factnet.org/node/1726/

    • DodoTheLaser

      Re: ALL RIGHTS RESERVED – it’s officially supposed to be fake, so no worries.

      • DeElizabethan

        No one could hardly make that kind of Ron talk, like he. {Oh thank you oh great lord} sarcasm.

        Thanks for showing this Laser.

    • 0tessa

      So, Hubbard will come back as a dictator no doubt! And the group outside the physical universe was undoubtedly the Sea Org (or the Spaced Out Org as they were called then …).

      The fantasy of a crazy old man.

      • DodoTheLaser

        Yeah, let’s keep an eye on a young political leader in Bulgravia!

    • DodoTheLaser

      How I wish I could read what Marty moderated here…

      [IMG]http://i39.tinypic.com/1o7fp4.png[/IMG]

      http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/07/03/dangerous-thoughts/#comment-271787

      George White (OT VIII), a.k.a Path Of Budda, feel free to repost it here. Please and thank you.

    • Bella Legosi

      Okay I got 1/3 of the way thru this so far. I think Captain said it best when he compaired an insane bum diary to what Hub writes. I almost feel kinda bad I am reading a mad man’s thoughts like a…..diary! It’s weird, but wow! Thanks for posting! I am pretty much convinced this guy tweeked MIGHTY hard….like a fucking TOP!

      • DodoTheLaser

        Yeah, I know. It’s truly something. It’s been on the Internet almost forever.
        Scientology said it’s fake, even some OG/Exes said it’s fake, but now some OTVIII’s
        saying it’s true (document). I tend to believe so too. No wonder they had like 3 or 4
        different versions of OT VIII over the years, trying to figure out which one is more
        credible and less embarrassing. Perhaps, this is the original, straight from LRH.
        I won’t be surprised at all, if true.

        • Bella Legosi

          Wow, thanks again for posting!!!! Just got back from delivering the Sunday papers……FYI guys….if you subscribe to the daily newspaper, PLEASE turn your porch lights on for us delivery monkeys! That way we don’t have to shine a light in your house to find the freaking addy!!!! Ok…..had to spread the word!

        • BuryTheNuts2

          End Phenomena of the levels is one of my favorite things.
          You pay all that money for “freedom from overwhelm” (On OT III)?
          Just to find out you have so many crusty little body thetans that you are going to be fighting off those little suckers for four more OT levels.

          Oh goodie! Let freedom ring!

          • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

            But with the speed up the Bridge these days those sort of negative postulates are a thing of the past!

      • DodoTheLaser

        Side note:

        The whole scientology OT thing is like the most expensive role-playing nerd club ever.
        Thankfully, some members eventually leave.

        • Bella Legosi

          HA that actually puts a lot of this stuff into perspective. My ex is addicted to online RP games and I HATE THEM! Boring as all hell once you reach level 15 or whatever!

    • media_lush

      Holy shitballs!

      “For those of you whose Christian toes I may have stepped on,
      let me take the opportunity to disabuse you of some lovely myths. For
      instance, the historic Jesus was not nearly the sainted figure has been
      made out to be. In addition to being a lover of young boys and men, he
      was given to uncontrollable bursts of temper and hatred that belied the
      general message of love, understanding and other typical Marcab PR.”

      I think someone should let the Westboro Baptist Church know about this…. given how they love to protest with maximum media exposure I would pay good money to see them publicly take on the scions (imagine the lulz).

      • DodoTheLaser

        Yep.

      • Sherbet

        What you said, media_lush, what you said.

    • PreferToBeAnon2

      Whoa. Speechless here.

    • Mooser

      “I am not going to delve too deeply into specifics as people
      have a tendency to bog themselves down in significance”,

      And, of course, you don’t want that, do you? If there’s one thing we should’nt get bogged down in, it’s significance.

      • DodoTheLaser

        How ironic, ain’t it?