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Claire Headley Shows Us That in Scientology, You Just Can’t Shout at Ashtrays Enough

KoolAshtray2Claire Headley is taking us on our journey to train as Scientologists. She and her husband Marc were Sea Org workers who escaped from Scientology’s International Base in 2005. She spent years working with Scientology’s “tech,” and was trusted to oversee the auditing of Tom Cruise. Go here to see the first part in this series.

Claire, the farther you take us up the bridge, the more it feels like we’ve been here before. Are you telling us that we’re back to yelling at ashtrays again this week?

CLAIRE: The next step on our journey is Upper Indoc TRs (Upper Indoctrination Training Routines). We did cover some of this earlier, when I first did these on the HQS course.

However, the Upper Indoc TR course is a prerequisite to auditor training. It’s essentially where one is required to do these TRs to professional passing standard.

Up_The_BridgeAs with previous courses, the sequence is first to study the theory behind the Upper Indoc TRs, also known as TRs 6 to 9. (TR 6 and 7 involve physically moving another person around a room, with and without resistance. TR 8 is giving verbal instructions to an ashtray. And TR 9 has you ordering someone to move around verbally.) And of course, at this level, the very first policy letter is KSW #1. [Keep Scientology Working Series #1, a mantra about keeping Hubbard’s “technology” pure.]

By the time I left Scientology, I had studied, word-cleared and “Chinese Schooled” KSW #1 so many times that many parts of it are indelibly committed to memory, much to my chagrin.

After studying the theory, you get to see another tech film. This time it’s the Upper Indoc TR film, originally starring Lyman Spurlock and Al Mase, both of whom were staff at Gold, Scientology’s management headquarters east of Los Angeles.

Next is to clay demo each of the TRs.

THE BUNKER: So you not only spend time shouting at an ashtray, but also create a clay model of yourself shouting at an ashtray. How…spiritual.

CLAIRE: And then you do each TR to a supervisor pass, and get your twin through each TR to a supervisor pass.

At some point early in my Scientology career, I remember thinking to myself that I didn’t understand why I had to keep doing drills and studying materials over and over again.

But then the oft-repeated Hubbard statement came to mind: “Number of times over equals certainty and results.”

And at some point, I just stopped thinking about it.

THE BUNKER: So it sounds like more conditioning, just like before.

When we realized that yelling at ashtrays was coming up again, we were reminded of what Marty Rathbun said about this training routine in his latest book, Memoirs of a Scientology Warrior. Here’s the quote…

This drill has been criticized — and misunderstood — as “yelling at an ashtray.” In fact, the student does speak toward an ashtray, and then raise his voice at it. But the purpose of the drill is to step outside of the physical universe mechanics of sound, so as to distinguish and perceive intention as something separate from the intention’s “carrier wave” — the voice. Having earlier experienced non-verbal transmission of intention while playing basketball, the concept was real to me. After several hours of communicating intention to a material object, I developed a keen perception of the intention I was able to project, separate and apart from the carrier wave, the sound waves issuing from my mouth.

Oh, well that clears things up.

How does Marty’s explanation read to you now, given your current feelings about Scientology?

CLAIRE: I think that if someone truly believes that something or someone can help them, then there is a very good chance that that it will help them. The studies on sugar pills come to mind.

THE BUNKER: The placebo effect, right. That’s a very polite way to address Rathbun’s theories about the physical universe.

CLAIRE: Well, if Marty believes the TRs helped him, perhaps they did. Or, perhaps he realized the power of intention when playing basketball, and perhaps he was reminded of that when doing these drills.

I’m not saying intention doesn’t exist. I believe it does. I’m just not of the view that these drills are, necessarily, the be-all-and-end-all of learning intention.

And, you are, in fact, yelling at an ashtray. I believe the exact words used are “shout as loudly as you can.” I could be wrong on that, but I’d be willing to bet money that at least five of those six words are definitely used in explaining how to do the drill.

For me, any benefits of Scientology did not outweigh the damage it does. If a contradiction exists, I no longer set it aside. I am now a firm believer that critical thinking is a good thing.

THE BUNKER: Thank you, Claire. Our price list indicates $1,500 for this course. Total so far: $15,697

 
——————–

New Zealand to be Graced by Scientology Public Relations Handling

Our Kiwi readers will be thrilled to learn that the Church of Scientology will finally get a chance to tell its side of things when Face Television has on Auckland spokesman Michael Ferris for what should be a thrilling program of non-information on July 15.

From the press release: “Scientology claims to be truly unique in that it is the only new major religion to emerge in the 20th century. Scientology has attracted followers, loyalty, scepticism and downright denunciation. In an attempt to present a balanced view of Scientology, the guest this week In Conversation with Noel Cheer on Face Television is Michael Ferris, a spokesperson in Auckland for the Church of Scientology. ‘In Conversation with Noel Cheer,’ Face Television, Monday July 15th at 7:00pm, repeated on Tuesday July 16th at 12 noon.”

Given the long track record that Scientology spokespeople have for a “balanced view,” this should make for cracking good telly.

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on July 9, 2013 at 07:00

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If you’d like to help support The Underground Bunker, please e-mail our webmaster Scott Pilutik at BunkerFund@tonyortega.org

 

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  • Missionary Kid

    $cientology totally depends on the placebo effect.
    If you don’t get the win that the placebo effect would give you, then you aren’t doing it right, and you need to repeat it again.
    Wash, rinse, repeat.

    • Sherbet

      “If you don’t get the win that the placebo effect would give you, then you aren’t doing it right, and you need to repeat it again.” It’s a perpetual motion machine, like those toy mechanical ducks that bob into a dish of water, up and down, up and down. lrh invented something that feeds upon itself.

      • Missionary Kid

        Exactly right, Sherbet. It’s all flim-flam and bullshit. It’s calculated to keep people on the hamster wheel, while they’re throwing money at Co$.

        • Sherbet

          And, dammit, it works too well. So far.

          • Missionary Kid

            So far, for fewer and fewer people. Hopefully, eventually none.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Like a parasite.
        Hubbard designed the mind trap set up in a maze by repetition. Repetition came in the form of written texts, tapes, drills, auditing questions, promotional pieces, magazines, garbage trucks full of mail and more promo, members required to give “wins” after courses, after auditing, after ethics actions, then required to write their success stories after all of these, then other members are required to read these success stories, then repeated in special briefings and then at events and all required to listen and then write up their wins from what they heard about other members’ wins. Placebo is far too mild a concept word, imo.

        For those who hold their nose at the loaded word “brainwashing” pick any word you prefer. The end result is that you lose yourself and become a parasite to the host, scientology. It leeches every dream and wish for betterment of yourself, your family, friends, your community, your world and sucks the spark of joy and hope right out of you.

        Invasion of the Body Snatchers isn’t a metaphor for scientology, it is the story of scientology. It was written in the era of citizens already terrified by evil communists invading us with their propaganda, their mere words and philosophy would take over our minds. This materialized in what is now known as the McCarthyism era. Hubbard may have been crazy, but he was smart enough to learn what he needed for the scam.

        • PreferToBeAnon2

          nicely worded!

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            tks. I am thinking parasite may be more accurate than addict now. Those who have a difficult time “unplugging” fully from the Hubbard Host are convinced they will die, spiritually, if they “disconnect” from the “Source”!

            I forgot to include an important part besides repetition is “Propaganda by Redefinition” where Hubbard actually tells you what he is doing with his special words and special definitions. Whether it’s the TR’s, Objectives, Anything, you have to learn and repeat new words or new definitions to familiar words at every single step you do in scientology. That includes auditing. You have to study and learn “how to be a PC”.

            Any member or ex will tell you they genuinely had “wins” early on with these introductory and early courses and auditing in scientology. Later not so much, that they were lying about it, but were doing so to keep chasing that elusive “high”.

            Most had a “win” just from the opportunity to talk to someone at great length about their problems. And some had wins just from the fact that they were now, some for the first time, sitting down and facing the fact that they had problems and examining them and working on it. All therapeutic. And yes, some early wins were placebos.

            But some “wins” were actually just hallucinations, dangerously so in some cases, only by then you have a New Definition/Word for it: Exteriorization! Wheeee! So many scientologists chase after this and yet any doctor would say: “Come in Immediately for an examination!”. Or “I’m calling an ambulance to come get you”.

            http://www.xenu-directory.net/mirrors/www.whyaretheydead.net/misc/Factnet/SCNPROPA.TXT

        • Poison Ivy

          Yeah, THDNE!

        • FistOfXenu

          We have a WINN-AHHH! THDNE, you just gave me an idea for a new name for the cult.
          Para$citology

          • Missionary Kid

            That’s a good one copied to my list. I came up with bunchashitologym, but it doesn’t have the ring of Para$citology.

          • Michael Leonard Tilse

            Shiteology

        • Vistaril

          Yep, well said. You raise the important aspect that L Ron Hubbard was in the millitary where there is endless “drilling” so as to instill within warriors an automatic, unthinking reponse to orders. In a conflict situation, this is a hugely important factor. Understanding this helps to grasp why throughout Scientology’s history L Ron Hubbard constantly promoted the idea that he and his “troops” were, in fact, fighting a war which relied upon unswerving loyalty and total KSW adherence to “tech”. What is surprising is that L Ron Hubbard was so open about what he was doing by calling most of his introductory exercises “drills”.

          Then again, waring people about dangerous practises and then implementing those very dangerous practises upon his flock is classic L Ron Hubbard. He was, after all, the man who said the only way to contol others is to lie to them before immediately lying to the very people he was addressing.

          • MissCandle

            (Insert musical notes here:) Onward S-Lying-Tology Soldiers!

            • Missionary Kid

              Gee, that has a familiar ring. 😉

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            I’ve said this before, but I’ve been able to identify quite a few distinct “pesonalities” of Hubbard (Hubbard the Scientist, the Professor, the Psychiatrist!, Hubbard the Warrior, there are Many!) and my favorite has always been “The Snitch”. He snitched on Hubbard all the time as to what the Evil One was up to. It wasn’t for moral reasons or anything like that, it was to get him into trouble!

            • Captain Howdy

              Yes, LRH was always dropping hints about the true nature of his diabolical “game”.

        • Captain Howdy

          “Invasion of the Body Snatchers isn’t a metaphor for scientology, it is the story of scientology.”

          “INVASION OF THE BODY THETANS”

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8xpQmmxM-o

          • PreferToBeAnon2

            Quite the find Capn’!

            • Captain Howdy

              I’ve used it before. The person who did it is a genius.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            A thing of beauty. “They’re Not Human!”

    • Vistaril

      $cientology totally depends on the placebo effect.

      You might have over-reached with this statement. Don’t forget Scientology’s reliance on lies, hypnotic-like suggestions, lies, blackmail, lies, extortion, lies, political corruption, lies, an indolent media, lies, and incompetent government officials. Oh, did I mention lies?

      : )

      • Missionary Kid

        I kind of agree with you, but if you subtract the placebo effect, what happens to the belief?

        I say that the answer is just a con based on lies, carried along by greed. That describes LRH.

        • Vistaril

          Well, as difficult as it is for many to admit, the lower levels do offer some benefit even if it is only the same benefit anyone can derive from talking about their issues with someone who is apparently listening (albeit twiddling with a crude lie detector). Other benefits include the feeling of being part of an accepting and caring group ostensibly concerned with the welfare of all. Even some of the most ardent critics declare that they have benefited from some element or other of the tech. I have no doubt that you are correct in that the placebo effect plays a significant role, but the belief is more implanted than it is borne of any real-world results.

          Don’t get me wrong. While its important to admit that there is some good in the tech (read bait in the trap) if one is to understand Scientology, it still remains that there is nothing of value in the tech which cannot be found elsewhere and which is also more effective, longer-lasting, cheaper, and far, far safer.

          • Missionary Kid

            My philosophy is that as long as one doesn’t do harm or frighten the horses, that if it makes you feel better, great.

            If it makes someone happy to stand in the middle of the road, naked, and dumping bat guano on their head, fine. Just don’t do it when I have to watch, (unless the person is Brooklyn Decker) or interrupt the flow of traffic.

            The problem with Co$ is that it’s only designed to suck money out of people. That’s one harm. The second is that it forces disconnection from other people, especially family.

            What does $cientology offer in return? Some psychological benefits and insights that would come a lot cheaper without alienating oneself from the general society.

            Conventional psychotherapy, groups, or just hanging out with a caring friend who asks good questions, all provide better help — especially since they don’t try to recruit someone into a cult.

            In addition, a professional doesn’t blab about what is discussed.

  • FistOfXenu

    “the purpose of the drill is to step outside of the physical universe mechanics of sound, so as to distinguish and perceive intention as something separate from the intention’s “carrier wave” — the voice”

    Step outside the physical universe yak yak yak yak. Sounds like Hubbard-speak to me. I prefer Tony’s take on that: “The placebo effect, right. That’s a very polite way to address Rathbun’s theories about the physical universe.”

    When we come down to it, Rathbun’s theories about the physical universe are just a slightly fancier way of saying what LRH said. Rathbun’s “carrier wave” is still carrying the same horseshit as LRH’s “carrier wave” but it’s dressed up to sound like it means something. Bottom line for them both is, you yell at ashtrays to hypnotize yourself to believe your thetan controls things around you.

    • Missionary Kid

      Exactly. I like the term, “Hubbard-speak.”

      Nobody’s ever moved an ashtray that way.

      Anyone who has a passing knowledge of physics, radio, physiology, chemistry and sophistry can see that it’s total bullshit.

      The problem is that the Hub subtly introduces terms that put a person in the Huniverse, where his laws of physics and logic work. It has very little connection with reality, except vocabulary.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        I threw an ashtray once. I was yelling when I threw it.

        I had tone 40 fucking intention at the time too!

        • Missionary Kid

          Second laugh of the day. Thanks.

        • Bella Legosi

          HA! I did the same thing when my ex wouldn’t give me money for smokes! It was one of those 3lb glass ashtrays too!

          Guess what? He caved! Called me a psychotic bitch, but I got my smokes and kindly told him to fuck off too!

          • Missionary Kid

            Who says smoking isn’t addicting? 😉

            • Bella Legosi

              lol I think I have told you I do become quite psychotic with out my coffin nails!

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Pass!

            • Bella Legosi

              Would that be considered a “win”? Or is it called a “gain”? This silly wog girl still is rusty on the lingo!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              When you finish a course, or even a clay demo on a course, or do a drill, you have to get the supervisor to say “Pass” before you go on to your next step. Means you finally got it “right”.

              So what’s your next step? And would you consider video cam with sound so we can all watch? hah

            • Bella Legosi

              Thank you for the clarification!

              One day someone will video me yelling at the TV. I can get going pretty damn good. Sometimes I will get mad and ask questions; already knowing the answer. That is when I flip off the TV and have my Howard Beal Breakdown! A nice smoke after my fits helps! lol hell by the end of it all I need one!

              We can all safely assume I am highly reactionary under the right circumstances!

        • Vistaril

          Was that *you*!!! The last time I sang karaoke was on my stag do when I was dared to perform “Leader Of The Pack” at a biker bar known locally as the “The Flying Pitcher”, only it wasn’t a pitcher that got me off stage, it was a flying ashtray.

          • Missionary Kid

            You forgot your platform shoes, and to have them put Tequila on the jukebox!

            Pee Wee was smart enough not to sing.

        • FLUNK_101

          A guy half my size picked up an ashtray. I could see he fully “intended” to smash the glass ashtray upside my head.
          I backed off and avoided a physical confrontation.
          The next time I saw that guy, he was limping really bad. I wondered if he got into a fight and got fucked up. I felt sorry for him.

          BTW, I like your new av. It’s alive with color, just like you, BTN … you light up our lives!

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Thx.

            My brother was (quite a jerk) and always confrontational and getting in fights when he was younger.
            I always assumed it was because his name was Harvey.

            He left the local bar in Las Vegas one evening and was attacked with a shovel to the back of his head.

            He is pretty mellow nowadays. And also very lucky he lived through that incident.

            Good for you for backing off.

            • Poison Ivy

              So sorry about your brother.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Thanks PI. Oddly enough, he is a much different person now.
              He is awesome, in fact.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              He could start his own religion then: “Shovelology”.

              Hey, you could get tax write offs for any birthday and Xmas gifts you send him!

            • Poison Ivy

              That which does not kill us…..etc. etc.

        • FistOfXenu

          LOL!

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Your certificate is in the mail. btw, you Still have to pay for the course.

          • Missionary Kid

            No she doesn’t have to pay. If anyone tried to collect, they’ll have to face a flying ashtray.

        • Captain Howdy

          I’ve had many ashtrays command intended for my head in my time..usually sent there by a member of your tribe.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Hey….maybe we actually know each other……………HAHAHA

          • Bella Legosi

            You know how men say “You throw like a girl!”? The men who say that never been on the business end of a scorned woman’s throw! Believe me if I miss you………..it was on purpose!
            😀
            I am also kick ass at darts!

      • Phil McKraken

        “physics, radio, physiology, chemistry and sophistry”

        That list made me smile. Are these the reading, writing, arithmetic of cult watching?

        • Missionary Kid

          The main subject is psychology, and how it can be twisted to suck money out of people.
          Those subjects just show how much LRH lied and made up shit.
          What happens is that his methods get people to ignore those subjects and accept his word on the everything.

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            Just had a cognition.

            The early Mormon church leaders were all Masons. They built their own lodge, and moved Joseph Smith straight to 32nd Degree (top level). The Masons found out and barred them all from further participation. BAM! A new revelation from God told Smith and the Mormon leadership that the Masons were all of the devil, and no Mormon could participate. (True to this day.)

            So… Hubbard uses psychology to lure people into HIS cult and keep ’em there. But if people looked at real psychology, they would know he was a bad plagarist. So… BAM! All psychs are evil, and Scientologists must not only shun them, but actively work to rid the world of them.

            Truly, there is nothing new under the sun…

            • Missionary Kid

              I think that a lot of the stuff was done on an ad hoc basis, but they were following a well-worn path, whether they knew it or not.

  • Observer

    Maybe it’s just me, but I’m perfectly aware of my intention even when I’m not bellowing out a carrier wave. I’m all for self-awareness, but seriously, I can yell at an ashtray for free.

    Speaking of lack of awareness, Scientology still claims to be a “major” “religion”?! (Separate quotations because each of those words are ridiculeworthy on their own.)

    • Missionary Kid

      Please realize that the whole concept of “carrier wave” in this context is total bullshit.

      It’s a term brought over from radio. It has no meaning here, but LRH wanted people unfamiliar with physics or radio to think that there was such a thing.

      It’s the failed physicist MUS – Making Up Shit again.

      • Observer

        I know. I guess I should have used the snark brackets. From what I can see pretty much everything everything Ron said was both utter crap and calculated to put people more firmly under his control.

        • Missionary Kid

          I should have used it, too. I learned the wave concept when I was about 11 years old when I got interested in ham radio, so even then, I would have known that the term was being used for a snow job.

          Very true: “everything Ron said was both utter crap and calculated to put people more firmly under his control.”

        • FistOfXenu

          So really when we quote LRH we should always use {} because no sane person can quote him unless it’s for the snark.

      • Racnad

        Yup, I technical term dropped in out-of-context to make BS sound scientific. Now excuse me as I enter my H2O enveloper unit.

        • Missionary Kid

          Watch out for the dihydrogen oxide. It can cause you to slip and fall.

          • MissCandle

            And damage your epidermis.

      • Ben

        Yup. And don’t you folks who took real calculus, differential equations and physics courses get pissed off when the Marty-types use the term ‘quantum physics’? One doesn’t even get to do real quantum physics until they have finished many real math and physics courses — mechanics, dynamics and electromagnetics… I did sit through all those courses and am sick to hear Hubbard, Cruise, Rathbun and the little $cibots spit out ‘quantum physics’ like they even have an inkling of what it really is.

        • TonyOrtega

          Wait a minute — are you saying Marty skipped a gradient?

          • FLUNK_101

            what are you, a course supervisor?

          • grundoon

            Uh oh, Tony’s freewheeling through the implant… Send in an extraction team pronto! Gear up: Full combat packs, ethanol supplements, and Strunk & White!

        • Missionary Kid

          Yeah, that’s another term that Liar Ron Hubturd threw around to sound scientific.

          As Otessa put it, Science is a good antidote for Scientology.”

        • ParticleMom

          I have done second order linear differential equations and studied string theory in a graduate class as an undergraduate. But I never understand anything Marty says.

          • FLUNK_101

            It has nothing to do with math or science. I would love to write subtitles for one of Marty ‘s essays, to explain what he’s really saying.

      • Poison Ivy

        More made up science. I HATE that about the Hubster!

        • Missionary Kid

          Some of that fakery is so ingrained that even after leaving, people believe that thoughts produce energy.

          • Vistaril

            I know, its crazy, but deliberate and many people are fooled by it. The use of the word “energy” lends Scientology, and other kook systems, an unwarranted nuance of scientific veracity. Yet energy is not a substance, like, say, concrete, it is a property, like weight. While you can accurately state that something is “made of concrete”, you cannot accurately state that something is “made of weight”. High School physics, I know, but worth reiterating every now and then.

            • Missionary Kid

              The hub failed the only physics class he took, and it shows, but most people haven’t even had high school physics, and he used that lack of knowledge to buffalo them with bullshit.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            We didn’t have the Discovery Channel back then. Oh wait. no cable tv.

            We had 3 friggin’ channels! okay, a few fuzzy UHF ones. So we oldie but moldie folks had a darn good excuse for being so gullible! We got our science from Twilight Zone.

            • Missionary Kid

              I lived in L.A., and grew up in the 50s. We had 7 channels. There were no UHF channels.

              I learned my radio theory in about 1956, through a friend of my older sister when I got interested in ham radio. I learned the theory, but failed 5 words a minute reading code, so I didn’t get my novice license. None of that was learned from the TV.

  • Observer

    I think Disqus needs to word clear “no one.”

    • Phil McKraken

      Is there such a thing as num clear? Perhaps “3” is the problem here.

      • Captain Howdy

        3 is the devil’s number, so that’s a bingo.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        There is such a thing as num nuts.

    • Racnad

      Sometimes I have a negative number of comments. Must be comments from the antimatter universe.

      • FistOfXenu

        Oh good. It’s not just me. Maybe it’s how many comments we have to get to get back to 0.

  • aquaclara

    I wonder if anyone falls off the bridge at this point. Repeated drills in yelling at an ashtray, and then building the model in clay are not normal behaviors. Nor is pushing someone around a room, which is an aggressive action, whether you yell or do it quietly.

    Thanks, Claire, for your honest telling of this stage up the bridge.

    • villagedianne

      Yes, DI’s have intention. But I have heard that DI’s have a high divorce rate, because after projecting intention all day, they find it hard to interact normally at home. Intention can be a double-edged sword.

      • Missionary Kid

        Brought back memories of DIs yelling. 😉 Restimulation.

  • Dwight Geiger

    Humans need delusions to live.Fredrich Nietzsche.How right he was and how sad it really is.

    • Bella Legosi

      Isnt he also the one who said, “Religion is the opiate of the masses?”

      • 1subgenius

        No.

        • Bella Legosi

          Thank you! Who did say it?

          • Poison Ivy

            Marx, shortly before he made Communism the national “religion” of sorts. Just a religion with no God attached.

            • Captain Howdy

              Marx had a country?

            • Sherbet

              Freedonia. Oh, wait. Wrong Marx.

            • Captain Howdy

              Hah! I was going to ask Ivy if maybe she meant Groucho.

            • Sherbet

              I beat you to the reference. Just call me Mrs. Teasdale.

            • Remy

              Exactly. Nationalism is the same too.

              But I personally don’t think the term “religion” has been completely co-opted to mean “hierarchical organized religion,” or even that a “god is attached.” At least not academically.

          • Captain Howdy

            The full quote from Karl Marx is: “Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people”.

            The quote comes from the introduction to a book that was never completed

            There is a passage from a Marquis de Sade novel that was published 50 years previously.that is similar.

            • Bella Legosi

              I like that quote better! It’s got meat on the bones! Thank you!

      • Dwight Geiger

        No,that was Karl Marx who said that.

      • Peter

        No. That was Karl Marx.

        • Bella Legosi

          Thanks!

  • LongNeckGoose

    To me, the most interesting thing about the yelling at the ashtrays is what the coach says after the student does it the first time: “You didn’t really expect the ashtray to move, did you?” I still wonder what Hubbard meant by that remark.

    • Missionary Kid

      Of course, the ashtray isn’t going to move.

      Of course, everyone, even true believers have a corner of their mind some doubt that the ashtray won’t move.

      The supervisor takes advantage of that doubt.

      It’s to show the subject that supervisor knows what they are thinking, and that somehow the supervisor can read their mind.

      It’s a setup to make the subject believe that somehow the supervisor has extra powers.

      • ze moo

        No ‘extra powers’ are necessary. The supervisor is now the ‘superior’ of the student. All subsequent interactions are tainted by the ‘I have superior knowledge’ strategy of Lroon. The con has set it hook and the fish can only wiggle….

        • Missionary Kid

          You put it well. Of course, there are no extra powers. It’s all a part of the lies.

          • ze moo

            The acceptance of ‘superior knowledge’ is the hook in many cons, be it Voodoo, Ancient Aliens or Bigfoot. Those who can’t accept this are cut out of the herd as too much to bother with. It lets the ‘guru’ focus on those more easily coned and deprived of their money.

            • Missionary Kid

              First, it’s the acceptance of the guru’s {superior knowledge}, then there’s the false promise that $cientology will make you happier, and, if you stay with it, will give you control of matter, energy, space, and time.

          • Poison Ivy

            The only “extra powers” we have come from deep within ourselves, usually at the times we least expect them.

            • Missionary Kid

              Well put, PI.

    • grundoon

      Hubbard meant that the ashtray would have moved if you really, really expected it. Your expectation fell short of Tone 40. That’s why you have to do it over.

      • FLUNK_101

        Thanks grundoon. I think you’re right. He was critiquing the student for not believing the ashtray would move, and (supposedly) that’s why nothing happened.

  • FLUNK_101

    Yay! Claire Headley! I enjoy her very much. Thank you Claire!

    “I’m not saying intention doesn’t exist. I believe it does.”

    When I I left Scientology, I thought about these things too.
    Is there such a thing as intention?
    I turned to science for clues … (though, in science, they use terms like “conscious will.”) Is turns out, surprise surprise, that conscious will is not completely conscious … it starts in the subconscious.
    The famous “Libet Experiment” got people looking at this. They used a machine to measure signals sent from the brain to your finger. At the time you “decide” to move your finger, the finger has already been sent a signal, “get ready to move.”
    The finger was activated by the brain a fraction of a second earlier than when you when you consciously “decided” to move your finger.
    So, the first step is an unconscious impulse to move your finger. Then, the brain sends a signal to your finger to get ready to move. Then, you make the “conscious” decision to move your finger … and then you move your finger!
    It raises questions about free will. The answer is, free will is not infinite. It’s a matter of degree. Like the “Serenity Prayer,” it’s knowing what you can change, and what you can’t.
    A gorilla may duck his head when you throw a rock at him. By ducking, he avoids getting hit in the head. But when you shoot a gun at him, he dies every time.
    A human being has more options. A human being is clever enough to invent a bullet proof vest! Getting shot at no longer means that death is inevitable, because there are ways of protecting yourself.
    So, your free will, or “intention,” is a matter of degree. It’s your ability to control the outcome of an event. Or, as Daniel Dennett said, to change the “inevitable” to “evitable.”
    Maybe not everyone likes to think about this stuff, but I do. Science helped me re-evaluate things I learned or thought about in Scientology.

    Flunk

    • Missionary Kid

      Excellent.
      Basically, what you’re saying, and I agree with it, is that there’s no science in $cientology.

      • FLUNK_101

        Science is scientific, Scientology is intuitive. The idea that your finger “knows” it’s about to move before you do is counter-intuitive.
        And don’t get me started on body thetans! The CNS (central nervous system) is not comprised of dead space aliens, but it’s funny how people can be convinced of that, because there are things which seem to take on a life of their own.

        • Poison Ivy

          Funny, I think of Scientology as counter-intuitive. Almost completely.

          • Jgg2012

            I think of it as science fiction. Or fictional science.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            LOL,

            Apple products are intuitive.
            Scientology is no Apple. And they were, there would be a worm in it.

            • FistOfXenu

              Para$ci-tology’s apple was eaten by the old goat.

            • Missionary Kid

              Another great term for my collection. Para$ci-tology.

            • FistOfXenu

              Spelling’s not my strong point. Can’t decide if it should have a hyphen or not.

            • Missionary Kid

              I collected them both. I’m now so reliant on spell-check it’s pitiful.
              I was an excellent speller before I went into the Corps. Afterwards, not so good. How, with spell-check, I’m even worse, but at least when I write, it looks O.K. when I’m done.

          • FLUNK_101

            Are you a counter-scientologist? Good for you! You’re a smart lady.
            But, to be a “true believer,” I think you have to connect with the subject on an intuitive level.
            I think it requires a having a good experience that you associate with the subject. This type of intuitive thought is called magical thinking. It’s an “association-based notion of causality.”
            You put the meat in the oven, and the heat browns the meat. You don’t know why, but it happens every time. So you don’t over-analyze it – you just know it’s true based on your experience, and your experience is the foundation of your intuitive thought processes.
            But what if you’re getting audited and your colitis goes away? It never went away before, so you think it must be because of the auditing. That’s an association-based assumption, not the result of analyzing what happened scientifically.
            Besides the love bombing and other common cult-like techniques, Scientology “waits” for you to feel good about something, then it rewards you for that, so you associate that good feeling with Scientology. That’s what I mean by intuitive. (BTW, I liked Malcolm Gladwell’s book “Blink,” which talks about intuition and how we form our first impressions.)
            At this point in time, it seems the only people making “positive associations” with the subject of Scientology are third worlders who (very sadly) see it as a step up in life.

            • Missionary Kid

              Leave it to Co$ to take advantage of third worlders, as well as people unfamiliar with the con because they assume that stuff from the U.S. is somehow O.K.

    • 0tessa

      Science is a good antidote for Scientology

    • villagedianne

      In the matter of intention, the intent is for the gorilla not to be around when the gun is fired.

      • FLUNK_101

        They are pretty amazing. I saw a cool show with Christine Amanpour going to some remote jungle to check out some gorillas who’d never seen humans before. They were very curious about Christine. One of them tried to look inside her pocket book.

        • Robert Eckert

          That was a Scientologist gorilla, trying to get at her wallet.

          • FLUNK_101

            LOL!

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            bam!

          • Poison Ivy

            SOOOOO funny Robert!

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Lookin’ for blunts?

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            damn, I was just cooling down about that whole Denise MisJustice charade, too!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              🙂

    • MarionDee

      May I ask some of/one of the kind people here to explain the concept of “intention”? I keep relating it to the acting concept of motive–“what am I (as the character) trying to accomplish at this moment?” Usually, a character hopes or believes he/she can control the outcome of an event. In real-life terms, I woke up yesterday thinking “sure, I haver a migraine, but I can write at least one good page of my current project!!” I think that in Scientology terms, was my intention. But in acting, the character also encountes an obstacle, in or outside herself, which creates the drama–i.e. the irresistible force meets the immovable object, resulting in a clash or very interesting event). Onstage, my motive might be to pick up that thousand-dollar bill on the other side of the room; my obstacle might be the fact that an angry cobra is lying on top of it. In real-life terms, yesterday’s migraine, which got worse and worse, became the immovable object to my “intention” to write–despite meditation, diet, medication, resolve and relaxation.

      Does success in “intention,” for Scions mean that the migraine could be banished by me by applying another intention? If someone has the “intention” of, let’s say, getting a locked door to open without a key–and can’t do it–is that a failure of intention?

      I still have the migraine so I hope this makes sense–and many thanks.

      • Robert Eckert

        The way they use “intention” makes me think of “Triumph of the Will”

        • MarionDee

          It sure does. Mob mentality. Absolute loyalty or expulsion.

      • FLUNK_101

        Acting is like telling a story. A Scientologist might think of that as the “intention” – to tell the story or re-creating some kind of reality. You’re creating a character, as well as “mocking up” the various obstacles …
        I hope you find some relief for your migraines!
        Peace.

        • MarionDee

          I just up-voted my original post, because the migraine’s back yet again. (Embarrassing!) We’ve had a lot of storms and flash flooding here (Toronto), so a lot of people are feeling it in their veins and bones. Flunk, thank you for the explanation. Good acting classes make you break down behavior into building-blocks, which is why the Scion approach sometimes prompts those associations in me. As for “touch assist,” I am disabled, due to a failed immune system (not HIV–closer to MS) and neurology gone wild, so I find the whole idea of “touch assist” hilarious. I don’t think anyone who has ever suffered real chronic pain could possibly believe in it.

          • Lilaeth

            Marion, as a fellow migraine sufferer, you have my sympathy. Have you tried massaging the centre of the palms of your hands? An ex of mine was a masseur, and he used to do that to my hands during an attack – it usually worked, and was a great alternative to the drugs. Even though it sounds uncomfortably similar to a ‘touch assist’!

            • MarionDee

              Thank you; I have never heard of that, Lilaeth! I will certainly try it next time.

            • Lilaeth

              He used to just press his thumb into the palm of my hand, and move it in clockwise circles, without putting too much pressure on it. Apparently there are acupuncture points and reflexology points in there, so that might explain how it works. If it didn’t actually fight off an attack, it usually at least lessened the pain/urge to vomit. Good luck!

  • Dwight Geiger

    I hope that Leah Remini has yelled at enough ashtrays and will use that experience to shout it all to the press.Dish nation may be the only source to see it as the big guns of news still have no balls at least in the U.S.

  • Vistaril

    Heh! Only in Scientology can there be a “professional standard” for the manner in which a person yells at an ashtray.

    • Missionary Kid

      And, of course, whether or not a student meets that standard is determined by the instructor. It’s totally subjective, and another means of telling the student that the instructor is superior.

    • Dwight Geiger

      It almost seems like only in America can people be so stupid that they will believe anything even though the majority of the whole planet are really stupid.That is why despotic leaders get away with everything,everywhere.

    • MissCandle

      When you’ve practiced enough on an ashtray, you can graduate to yelling at your wife. And when you’ve practiced enough on your wife, you can intentionally make her disappear. Who said the method does not work?

      • Poison Ivy

        Worked for L Ron, and for COB.

  • Bella Legosi

    As I so eloquently stated a few days ago………I yell at my TV. I find it therapeutic. The small part of me that is still spiritual believes that maybe Uncle Cosmo will hear my anger and do something about it OR note it down for later smiting. I’ll let you know if it works!

    Also, I have always wondered if yelling at an ashtray has the same effect that my yelling at the TV does? Anyone who has been thru this routine and is willing to enlighten me would be very much appreciated! This isn’t a trolling question or sarcasm either! I have been wondering about this since I started reading about TRs and such. I have a bunch of questions and when I get answers I normally think of more lol so another question would be; What do you say to the ashtray? I know you tell it to move, but is that really all?

    • FLUNK_101

      Ever hear about the guy who shot his television?
      You know you’re a redneck when … the ashtray didn’t move, but it flew across the room when you blasted it with your shotgun!

      • Bella Legosi

        Who this guy?
        🙂

        Shooting your TV is really counter productive! Although I used to throw my first gen Nintento controller at the TV, but that was back when the tube for the TV wasn’t made out of flimsy glass or plasma!

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          “That guy” was Elvis. It is rather well documented that when bored, he would use his pistol as a “remote control” for the television set. Mostly in Las Vegas hotel rooms.

          • Robert Eckert

            In the South, thirty/forty years ago there were sports bars which would buy a shitty TV on football nights and raffle off the right to shoot Howard Cosell. Once Howard had said something irritating enough for the winner to give him a blam-blam-blam, all the rednecks would laugh and go watch the game on the big TV.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              We still do it.
              But we only shoot at the TV now when Troy Aikman comes on………….So we can stay awake….

            • Bella Legosi

              My little brother lived not too far from Muscle Shoals…..and when he came back to Oregon he said that where he was, was really like Civil Rights never happened. It is still very segragated and racist among whites and blacks. Apparently rednecks of this area took a lot of pride in their lawnmowers. And if you don’t have a church to go to……….you may as well be disconnected.

              I don’t think I could hack it! I am content in the land of Weird that is Portland!

          • Bella Legosi

            Oh D……I am a pharmacological fan…I do know who the King was!

            There was an interesting post on Cracked.com that theorized that maybe the reason why he died (or was helped along) was that he was constipated. Apparently when he died his colon was 8-9ft long.

            I heard he created what is called Fool’s Gold sandwich. A loaf of bread, peanut butter, jelly, and a pound of bacon!

            He also was an honorary DEA agent! AHAHAHAHAHA And people wonder why I hate that agency.

            • Captain Howdy

              Here you go Bella. Charlie Burton & the Cutouts doing their smash hit “Breathe for Me Presley”

              “See the candle burn out quick–there ain’t no more wax. there ain’t no more
              wick.
              Deep fried food made Elvis sick, and too many drugs from Dr. Nick!!!

              BREATHE FOR ME PRESLEY!!!
              BREATHE FOR ME PRESLEY!!!
              BREATHE FOR ME PRESLEY!!!

              C’mon and breathe for me!!!”

              http://youtu.be/-4GYwxu1X0Q

            • Bella Legosi

              Why thank you Captain! Never heard this before!

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Well this is comical. When I saw your post originally, there was no illustration. Just what i thought was intended as a rhetorical question. (Who this guy?)

            • Bella Legosi

              DiSUKs does that from time to time! I noticed it happens a lot with Observers shoops. I have to reload once or twice to get the image up.

      • Missionary Kid

        Thanks for my fourth laugh of the day.

  • sugarplumfairy

    Last night I had company and they were both smokers. So early this morning I woke up to an dusty, smelly ashtray on my coffee table.. My first instinct was to yell at it, but after reading today’s bunker story, instead I decided to communicate my intention to the offending ashtray.. I developed a keen perception of the intention I was able to project, separate and apart from the carrier wave, and then the sound waves issued from my mouth.. “Clean your damn self!”

    then I washed it..

    • Missionary Kid

      First laugh of the day. Thanks, SPF.

    • Bella Legosi

      You could have just told them to smoke outside
      😛

      • FistOfXenu

        You wouldn’t even need to shout at them or grab them. Just ask.

        • Bella Legosi

          That wouldn’t be Tone 40 enough! Command intent! TELL those smokers GTFU stinky fuckers!
          😀
          I should cool my potty mouth! I was doing so well! Cursing is a bad habit. Once you start it gets worse! And then before you know it a kid is saying, “What the flying fuck is that? It’s a fucking bird!”

          • Jgg2012

            Yes, LRH said smoking is good for you!

            • Bella Legosi

              And yet again he was utterly wrong!
              😀

            • Jgg2012

              He was consistently, reliably and dependably wrong.

            • Bella Legosi

              Come to think of it……….with all the stuff he wrote for his “religion” he could have totally just continued being a SciFy writer and made a real killing. I was reading the OTVIII doc that Dodo posted the other night and wondered why in the hell he started a cult……….oh yeah the MONEY………simple……almost too simple! I hope he burns in writers hell for taking a very colorful imagination and using it to subjugate followers to further his own greed!

              Repetitiveness and simplicity, distorted to look complex, seems to be something cults are good at!

          • FistOfXenu

            Next thing you know you’re channeling Demented Midget even though he’s not dead yet.

            • Bella Legosi

              I am such an awesome SP Wog I can Wharg INTO him! HA

              If I had that ability I would get his ass soooooo arrested! In Russia!

    • MissCandle

      I keep my ashtray out on the deck because my intention is that any smoking guests should smoke outside. Guess what? My intention works! I cannot use my mind to move my ashtray, however, because it is lead crystal. (Maybe if my mind was less of a light-weight, I could move the heavy ashtray without using my hands?)

      • FistOfXenu

        “I cannot use my mind to move my ashtray”
        So you use the ash tray to move your visitors. Now THAT’S science.

        • Poison Ivy

          It’s psychology! (Which means it’s EVIL!!)

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      AND IT WAS CLEAN!

      The Tech really is infallible!

  • Mark

    From Claire’s description of these techniques, it looks awfully like Hubbard was (mis)using his (mis)understanding of Crowleyan ‘Magick’: “the art and science of causing changes to occur in conformity with will”, as Crowley originally put it, later augmented into “causing changes in consciousness to occur in conformity with will”.

    Thus, so magical thinking goes, it is theoretically possible to change one’s consciousness of an ashtray – say, get it to move itself across a table – simply by the exercise of highly-trained and concentrated willpower. Theoretically.

    What Hubbard either left out, misunderstood, or simply skimmed over (because of being A Guru Of Very Little Brain), was the corollary implicit in Crowley’s definition: it doesn’t matter HOW much you shout at an ashtray to make it move itself, it’s extremely unlikely to move at all unless you pick it up with your hand and move it across the table yourself.

    Bingo! say the magical thinkers, you’ve just caused a change in your consciousness (of the ashtray) by an exercise of your will (using your hand to move it); now you can go away and do something more productive than shouting at inanimate objects.

    Hubbard may have retained some faint memory of this – possibly from his conversations with Jack Parsons – given that coaches must say “You didn’t really expect the ashtray to move, did you?” (see LongNeckGoose’s comment below) after the first round of this ‘training’. But, given his hucksterish tendencies. it’s more likely that Hubbard was implying that there were superpowers in the offing…

    So, even in this commonly-cited practice, which he claimed to have invented (and didn’t), Hubbard got it WRONG.

    It doesn’t really matter whether one believes in placebo effects (scil. “wishful thinking”), or dismisses it all as a load of canting mumbo-jumbo; it probably has more to do with what FLUNK_101 mentions below about conscious and unconscious will, the Libet experiments, etc: “knowing what you can change, and what you can’t.”

    In other words, you’re a damned sight better off using proper magic and/or proper science than paying through the nose for Hubbard’s drivel!

    P.S. Let’s hope that Face Television has some attack-sheep ready to bite that Kiwi Co$ spokesman on the bum, if he starts being too “balanced” 🙂

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Don’t forget that Hubbard and Sara would sit outside trying to make oranges fall off a tree with their minds when they took Jack Parsons money and ran off to Florida.
      Guess what, if you stare at an orange tree in Florida long enough………You can make it so!

      Consider that wrapped in the vagina brackets!

      • Mark

        “Vagina brackets”?!

        Spare my blushes, please, BTN2!

        Can’t we call them something more, well, refined, like “Lady parentheses” or “Front-bottom interpolations”?

        (Sorry this took so long – I’ve been giggling for three hours…)

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Well to be fair it was Captain Howdy that said (paraphrasing; literally):

          {} Do you know what that looks like?

          • Missionary Kid

            I think LRH was afraid of them, and that’s why he was such a misogynist.

            • Missionary Kid

              I meant vaginas, not the brackets.

            • Robert Eckert

              But the sight of the brackets would no doubt restimulate an engram for him.

            • Missionary Kid

              Today has been filled with laughs from the posts of people here. You gave me another one. Thanks.

            • FistOfXenu

              Wonder if he ever told 1 of his tall tales about it, like this. “once upon a time there was this guy that got stuck on how when ever he started getting things to go right for him all of a sudden some thing would happen to make it fail and he’d end up back where he started. And he was a writer and a nuclear physicist and great mathematician and so on and so on, a real great man, and eventually he realized things always went wrong right after he saw those curly bracket things like they use in science a lot. But he still didn’t know why. Well he worked out how to self audit, see, and when he started self auditing suddenly he remembered some thing that happened as he was being born.

              Here’s what he remembered. His head was just starting to emerge and just as he saw his mom’s lady parenthesis he heard her hollering and carrying on and cussing. And all of a sudden what did he hear but his mom screaming “push him back in! I can’t stand it! push him back in!” And, poooof! he had a major cognition and stopped being restimulated by curly brackets although he was still a little bit afraid of lady parenthesis but only a little bit because he was such a stud. And from then on every thing he did made money made more money and made other people make more money. And he lived happy and paranoid ever after.”

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              too funny! hon, you hit the nail on the brackets!

            • FistOfXenu

              Thanks PTBA. It’s scary but funny how easy it is to apply Humbug’s patented Making Shit Up (TM) Drecknology.
              Or maybe I really am channelling the old bastard.

            • Captain Howdy

              I’ve got my eye on you and your fledgling cult, “The Church of Bracketology.

            • Missionary Kid

              O.K., if you use them, pay up. (I’m just imitating the Co$).
              (Oh, right. I DON’T want to do that).
              Never mind.

            • Bella Legosi

              It still blows me away that he never once said he was a woman in his past life AND that nobody ever really questioned that! You would think that if he discovered the secret to the universe he would have at least known what it was to be of the female gender. Not experiencing that, to me, is like only knowing HALF the secret to the universe!

              I need to start keeping a running count of Red Flags! I seem to observe quite a few, but I suppose being an eccentric, insane (according to OTVIII), Wog it is easier for me to see them! But that is why I like to point them out, maybe someone that is in the hellish SO may see this and who knows? It may be the flick that starts the domino chain reaction!

            • Missionary Kid

              I hadn’t even thought about the gender of past life personalities, but you’re right. Either he was unimaginative, or he had a bias against women. I vote for both.

            • Bella Legosi

              Me too!

          • Captain Howdy

            Yes, it twas I. I going to have to start demanding royalties for all the “stuff” I’ve originated around here that folks have “borrowed”.

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              You may not be using WISE techniques there Cap’n, but you got the wise-ass techniques down pat.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              {{{Your check is in the mail}}}

            • Bella Legosi

              NO NO NO
              The Co$ is starting to effect you! Genius ideas that benefit mankind should be free. Gratis!

          • Mark

            I can see the title of a future academic study already: ‘Typographical Pornography: a new paradigm for emotigrams’…

        • Bella Legosi

          Lady parentheses! I love it! Absolutely!

      • Kitz

        I’ll have you know when you coined that phrase, I got a text later that had me speechless…. Something that doesn’t happen that often. All I could do is shake my head….

        • BuryTheNuts2

          My imagination is running wild here…and it is making me giggle…A LOT!

          • Kitz

            LOL!! I’m sure that what I got has ran through your head at least once. I still shake my head over it…. while giggling. 😉

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Oh, snap!

    • Peter

      Actually, the placebo effect has been fairly well studied and does indeed have reality. [http://tinyurl.com/ldsuo9j) For may years, it was used simply as a pejorative for something not understood yet having real effects. It became a throwaway word by those who said “It obviously isn’t real). Belief is a very powerful thing, much more so than many realize.

      • Missionary Kid

        “Belief is a very powerful thing, much more so than many realize.” And, that’s what LRH depended on and exploited.

        • FLUNK_101

          You said it, MK!

        • Mark

          Trouble is, that implies LRH really did establish a religion. Rats! Hoist by my own petard!

          • Missionary Kid

            I put the word “religion” when speaking about $cientology in the sarcasm font {religion} because, while it has believers, it was only created to make money. The underlying purpose of the person establishing it is what makes it not a religion to me.

            • Mark

              How very true. I wonder which font would look most {sarcastic} here, if Disqus would give us a proper choice of typefaces?

            • Missionary Kid

              I don’t know what a real font would look like. I just used the term font when I came up with the idea of using the symbols. They’re really a snark or sarcasm delimiters, but “font” is easier to say or write.

            • Mark

              We need sarcasm-indicators, given we’re dealing with such a horrible cult, and Disqus’s limitations (though that lesson about how to put in HTML italics &c. yesterday was useful). I was just thinking aloud about typefaces suitable to indicate the Co$’s real nature graphically; there’s one called ‘Industrial Schizophrenic’ that seems apt: http://www.dafont.com/industrial-schizoph.font

            • Missionary Kid

              That’s a neat font, but I don’t think Disquis can handle it. The sarcasm brackets can be used when tweeting, or in all sorts of situations when the fonts are limited.

            • Mark

              Here’s a sample:

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Pretty.

        • villagedianne

          Belief IS a very powerful thing. It can be used for good or evil.
          Since the placebo effect does have reality, it would be great if it could be scientifically studied to help or cure people suffering from diseases. But that won’t make any money for the pharmeceutical companies, because the placebo effect can’t be patented!
          Of course, in a manner of speaking, Hubbard tried to patent it.

          • Karen715

            No need to blame the pharmaceutical companies. How on earth would it be tested? The placebo effect depends on the patient not knowing that s/he is receiving a placebo. And in double-blind testing, those administering the test cannot know whether what they are administering is an active drug,or a placebo, in order not to influence the patient unintentionally. How would that work if the thing being tested is a placebo?

            • villagedianne

              Let me clarify what I mean. I am not talking about the placebo effect in itself, but what it implies about the power that belief can have on our minds The placebo effect is really about the power of belief. .If our minds are so powerful that belief can affect our reality by curing disease symptoms, then it should be possible to harness this power to heal ourselves of these symptoms, perhaps of the disease itself.
              I see your point though, regarding how this probably can’t be tested.
              Still, if our minds are powerful enough to produce the placebo effect, I wish it would be studied more.

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              I have a friend who said his cousin meditated his teeth into place instead of wearing braces. Does that count?

            • Missionary Kid

              Were they still growing when it happened?

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              I assume. And I also assume it was not orthodontia-mysteriouso that made it happen (that was for you Bella!).

            • Missionary Kid

              I don’t know much about it, but it’s my understanding that as a person grows, that teeth do rearrange themselves. I think they were the beneficiary of that, but It’s just conjecture on my part.

            • Karen715

              Don’t get me wrong. I believe the study of the mind is a good thing, and we should be learning how to harness our brains’ power. And the placebo effect can be a good thing in certain circumstances. But it is ultimately based on ignorance of the truth. And thus, we bring ourselves right back to Scientology.

            • Missionary Kid

              The purpose behind $cientology is to enrich $cientology and control $cientologists by keeping them ignorant and feeding them lies.

            • villagedianne

              If the truth is that someone gets alleviaion of symptoms because of the placebo effect, then that is a good thing., Maybe the fact that our minds are powerful enough to produce the placebo effect is a higher truth. The placebo effect doesn’t cost anything, unlike Scientology. I’m not against Scientology because it is based on ignorance of the truth. I am against the abuses. Most, not all, but most of Hubbard’s ideas are twisted versions of truths that he stole from others.
              For example, Intention is not a bad thing, if you respect other people’s free will. But intention turned into fair game is evil.
              There is hardly any human idea that does not have a good and a bad side.

            • Karen715

              The “we bring ourselves right back to Scientology” part of my post was a joke of sorts. But since you responded in earnest, I will reply as if I were completely serious. I cannot separate the abuses of Scientology from the beliefs. If the beliefs didn’t exist, neither would the Hole. People here have posted that even if the Hole/RPF/basement of Big Blue, etc., were raided, many of those therein would insist that they deserve the punishment and were there of their own free will. What would cause that kind of response, except being brainwashed to accept the beliefs?

              I do not like the concept of a “higher truth”. That smacks too much of “What’s true is what’s true for you.” Ultimately the placebo effect comes about because the patient believes that something will help, even though that something has no real therapeutic action. I am not so dogmatic about the truth that I would begrudge someone relief from pain. If the placebo helps, then it helps and that is a good thing. And studying the brain to discover what might cause such relief is a good thing. Convincing someone that their lack of “intention” is the source of their troubles is, however, not a good thing. That’s like blaming the patient if the sugar pill doesn’t relieve their pain.

              To make it clear, just so we don’t have a go ’round about it, the reason I am a Sci-watcher is that I also want the abuses to stop. If the abuse could be ended, leaving the core beliefs intact, then though I wouldn’t approve, I would also consider the whole thing none of my damned business. But as long as people believe that LRH had the answer to everything (or anything) I don’t see that happening.

            • Karen715

              What the hell is up with Disqus? That was a reply to a post by Villagediane, and instead it’s floating on its own in mid-thread? Geez!

            • FistOfXenu

              It happens from time to time and it happened earlier today. Some days we get so much weird stuff here you’d think we were in Twilight Zone.

          • Bella Legosi

            Nice observation and you have a very very valid point!

      • Mark

        Quite right Peter: the placebo effect is well-attested and potent. What I should have said there is that it’s pretty hard to turn it on yourself, as Marty Rathbun evidently hopes to do; I wish him luck in his endeavour, but fear that he may be disappointed.

  • media_lush

    This drill has been criticized — and misunderstood — as “yelling at an ashtray.” In fact, the student does point their butt cheeks toward an ashtray, and then fart at it. But the purpose of the drill is to step outside of the physical universe mechanics of sound, so as to distinguish and perceive intention as something separate from the intention’s “parp wave” — the guff . Having earlier experienced non-verbal transmission of intention while farting, the concept was real to me. After several hours of communicating flatulence to a material object, I developed a keen perception of the odour I was able to project, separate and apart from the carrier wave, the fart gasses issuing from my anus.

    • sugarplumfairy

      I’m pretty sure we must be related.. You sound exactly like my brothers..

      • MissCandle

        Boys and their fart jokes never grow up. 🙂 Go see an Eddie Murphy movie.

    • Missionary Kid

      In OTIX you would learn that to move the ashtray, you need to light your farts.in order ot move the ashtray. Oops, I’m gonna get sued. That’s copyrighted material.

      • Mark

        Ah, so in OT X (or XI, or XII) you are supposed to be able to hover a few inches above the ground on a cushion of fart-gas, having swallowed vast quantities of LRH hogwash, Miscarriage bollocks, and tons of beans’n’rice? You don’t NEED the ashtray!? Hallelujah!

        • Missionary Kid

          That’s the fart gas levitation method.

        • Artoo45

          I imagine that will go something like this . . .

          http://youtu.be/e24vruBesmc

          Or, in other words, absolute hilarity.

          • Mark

            Hee-hee! Rapture or rupture?

          • Captain Howdy

            That crazy foolishness is what I would cite to vaLLarrr as an example of observing something to be true when obviously it isn’t. Those fools and those observing actually believe they are flying or levitating.

            • Bella Legosi

              I was watched Through the Wormhole last week and they were measuring the effects of hypnosis on the brain via MRI. The results were interesting. They put a chick who could self hypnotize into the MRI. They showed her various images with multiple color blocks. They measured the blood flow while she stared at the images. They found the area where color is perceived. They then told her to hypnotize herself to believe that there was no color. I am unable to articulate it in scientific terms right now, but the end result was the blood flow dramatically lessened; ie she could not perceive color in those images. So, hypnosis can most definitely alter your perception of reality; which is scary as hell, especially when it is Co$ potentially conducting the hypnosis itself.

              When I saw this I first thought about how $cientology utilizes hypnosis. It is even more intriguing now that I have read about this Ashtray Routine! Thought you would get a kick out of this piece of info (if you haven’t already seen it of course).

      • When you’re a “big being” like David Miscavige or Tom Cruise you have Sea Org flunkies that stand behind you and light your farts.

        • Missionary Kid

          Ah, yes, the sacred position of the Fartlighter. Edit: instead of sacred position, “ecclesiastical office”
          Third laugh of the day. Thank you.

          • Robert Eckert

            That’s “ecclesiastical orifice”

            • Missionary Kid

              Yup, LRH sure was an ecclesiastical orifice.

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          I understand that DM has two acolytes, one to light the farts, and the other to actually fart for him. And sometimes a third one to eat the sacred beans.

    • ze moo

      “Intention” is separate and distinct from the voice expressing the intention??? Just because Marty noticed a nonverbal head fake in a basketball game?? How can a head fake be verbal???

      I fart in your general direction and if you don’t leave I will taunt you some more.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWBUl7oT9sA

      • Bella Legosi

        Holy Grenade of Antioch!!!!!

        But, do you know the velocity of a swallow?
        😀

        • Robert Eckert

          African or European swallow?

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            Aaaaaaaaaaagh!

            • Pinkhammer

              No, Ooooooooohhhhh as in surprise and alarm…

          • Bella Legosi

            hehehehe Nice! I was hopeing someone would get that!

            European of course!

            A King’s gotta know these things you know!

    • lightblb62

      OMG..ROFL.. I DON’T KNOW WHY THIS IS SO HYSTERICAL TO ME BUT I COULDN’T STOP LAUGHING…. QUICK SOMEONE LEVITATE THE FEBREEZE! LOLOLOL

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        It’s funny because farting is funny.

        (That’s an axiom I think I just made up.)

        • FistOfXenu

          Sounds like you’re ready to squirrel up your own money making scam.

  • Racnad

    What Marty is talking about is referred to outside is Scientology as focus and determination. Like the communication skills drilled in TRs 0-4, these are useful skills to have, but an odd exercise to learn them. For Scientologists these become ritualistic, and because these rituals don’t exist elsewhere, they believe these skills are taught nowhere else.

    Another myth in Scientology culture is that when one becomes OT enough, one can do TR-8 with no hands, using pure intention to cause the ashtray to levitate off the chair and settle down again. Has everyone who did TR-8 heard that?

    • Mark

      These rituals do exist elsewhere, particularly in the so-called ‘Western Esoteric Tradition’ (Golden Dawn, Thelema, Wicca, etc, which Hubbard plagiarised shamelessly) and any number of Eastern techniques. It’s just a pity that Marty Rathbun still seems to be avoiding these, and sticking to the tattered remnants of Hubbard’s slipshod and inherently defective ‘tech’.

      • Poison Ivy

        I went to a high-end Aruvedic spa in Iowa, twice actually. I went there to deal with severe work and emotional burnout. The Raj – belonged to and was run by the Maharaja Rashneesh & his cult (his University was nearby). Now, the spa was not a part of the cult – but basically a moneymaker for it. It offered an intensive Panchakarma program, which is a ritual ancient Indian cleansing regime. Lots of normal people swear by it and I’d actually recommend it, especially for people who’ve abused their bodies with junk food, preservatives & chemicals, drugs or alcohol, etc. It also seems to naturally reduce stress (well, getting a 2-hour long daily aromatic oil massage by 2 people simultaneously will tend to do that; so will the colonics) and lots of people recovering from chemo use it to clear out their systems. It’s kind of like an ancient “purif”, except not dangerous and no force-feeding vitamins. Also, they had real MD’s on staff; doctors who were both MD’s as well as Aruvedic-trained.

        The spa also offered meditation classes (I got TM certified there, whatever that means), Indian cooking classes, classes on using Indian spices, a few metaphysical lectures, etc. You could wear a sign on your clothes that says “Silence” and no one would talk to you if you didn’t want them to. I really liked this part.

        As I said, the spa was not a part of the cult nor did it try and indoctrinate you. At all. It was a serene, restful place with amazing Aruvedic food. It was only for a tiny clientele. The staff were amazing and very normal and the pampering was lovely (not like a health spa – though they did have a small gym and really nice gentle yoga classes daily) Everyone was just very solicitous and respectful.. The guests were interesting and from many walks of life. In fact, I would go there again any day if I still made the kind of money I made back then.

        I remember at dinner one night talking with the other guests about this yogi conference that the University was hosting. It was like a giant meditation fest, and all the yogis were going to levitate. That was the goal, apparently. One of the guests had gone, just out of curiousity. He said it was bizarre – a whole day-long “show” of dozens and dozens of people sitting cross-legged with their eyes closed, trying to hop into the air – again and again and again.

        Someone there should have said, “You don’t expect you’re going to actually levitate, do you?”

        • BuryTheNuts2

          “You could wear a sign on your clothes that says “Silence” and no one would talk to you if you didn’t want them to.”

          Oooooh. Imma try this on Mr.Nuts when I get home!

          • Poison Ivy

            It was very nice, as I was just a piece of burnt-out, overworked, fried and crispy toast at that stage in my life.

            • Missionary Kid

              My theory is that the isolation from one’s normal, day to day “noise” and the attention on one is very therapeutic. In addition, being cared for is very nice, too.

              It definitly wasn’t beans and rice.

            • Poison Ivy

              Oh God no – the food (if one like’s Indian food!) was amazing.
              All vegetarian, though. And on the days you had your colonics, you could only have a pureed version of what everyone else got.
              What was funny was, the pureed food was GREAT! It was like gourmet Indian baby food.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              I think TM was so “exposed” at that stage that they wouldn’t have tried to love bomb you. But imagine if they had? That’s apparently what the CoS still does, but only with major marks.

          • Missionary Kid

            How soon can we expect the divorce, if you overuse it?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Are you kidding? That might prevent one!

        • Artoo45

          Pedantic former new ager is goinng to get pedantic. It was Maharishi Mahesh Yogi who came up with TM™ and the Maharishi University in the cornfields of Iowa. I studied TM™ when I was in my 20s and deep into whatever Kool-Aid du jour could keep existential fear at bay. For my 1200 (1986) bucks I got a decent relaxation technique and my very own Sooper Seekrit, just for me Mantra (shiring!). I basically got bored with it and tired of being hassled to spend more money, so I just stopped after a while and went on to the next thing (and the next and the next). Later, I found out that the mantras, like the cheap trinkets that many Indian god men “manifest”, was not an “ancient Sanskrit word chosen just for me” but some made up sound that ol’ Maha Yogi assigned to anyone born between such and such a year and such and such a year. They really tried to get me to do all the “upper courses.” They even have a sort of RPF for imported, poorly documented meditators in Fairfield. A cult is a cult is a cult is a cult . . .

          http://www.cultnews.com/?cat=141

          • Poison Ivy

            You are correct! And yeah it was Fairfield! In the middle of the cornfields!

            So sorry, it’s been so long. You are so right! I’m going to fix my post.

            I seem to remember I spent only $600 on the meditation because I was already at the pricey spa. Hey, I got a discount on enlightenment!!

            I got the same sooper sekrit sanskrit mantra as you by the way! Wow! {We must have been re-incarnated from the same era.} Or just the same age 😉 I’m sure you had to do the ritual with the orange for the yogi and everything, right?

            I was there in the late ’90’s early 2000’s, so maybe the method has changed. Or perhaps the spa was taken over by someone who wisely realized they would not attract guests if the place even hinted of cult. I (nor any of the other guests) were pushed to do anything but follow the panchakarma instructions to the letter and rest quietly. In fact even the TM course was not really pushed at all; I was just bored after 3 days of silence and hadn’t really had much luck meditating on my own in the past so thought, “what the hell.” Maybe there was some soft-sell magic going on there, but when I came back a couple years later, I got a TM “tune up” free of charge and they discounted my rate at the spa as “returning guest.”

            That’s certainly not the business model of Scientology, at least.

            Of course there were DVD’s you could watch in your room that were perhaps secret sales tools, but I brought novels with me and had no interest in them. And no one ever asked me twice.

            I can’t believe that University is still around. And like Scientology, it offers a “Management Major.” Apparently there is a Maha Yogi version of “WISE.”

            The spa was very well-run both times, so perhaps it’s better than the WISE model.

            • FLUNK_101

              PI, you are a lady and a lovely story teller.

          • Poison Ivy

            Wow Artoo – that article blows my mind! OMG – so I basically gave money to an evil cult!! (it seemed so benign at the time.) I do feel I got my money’s worth however; in fact it wasn’t nearly as pricey as some places I’ve been to since. There was no hint – or very little hint – of that at the spa.

            But reading this, I was struck by deja-vu:

            Hagelin’s message continues, “We are on the verge of realizing Maharishi’s desire of 30 years. The generosity of our donors has brought us to this place. With your support, we will soon have the Super Radiance community we have worked so hard to build.”

            Super Radiance Community = Super Power Building.

            Carrot >> Stick.

            At least there are fewer than 2000 of them. And they run a nice spa.

            • Robert Eckert

              You got “exchange” out of it. That makes it unScientological.

            • Captain Howdy

              Don’t you remember when I was telling people that David Lynch is one of the leaders of the TM cult? That’s why he stopped making movies.

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Lynch_Foundation

            • Poison Ivy

              Really? No I don’t recall, Capt. Is his daughter in? Does he live in Fairfield, the Clearwater of the TM Cult? I wonder how he got in?

              Since it looks like there’s less than 2000 of ’em up there, I’m not really worried about any kind of planetary coup.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Well if they do plan a coup….we need to postulate that they bring lots of garlic naan and mango chutney!

            • Captain Howdy

              There’s a lot more than 2,000 followers around the world. It’s a billion dollar business.

            • N. Graham

              I think the Nation of Islam should check it out.

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              lol! Come to think of it, I haven’t heard much about NOI involvement lately. Wonder if they have caught on.

          • N. Graham

            My friend and I went to a meditation class together. Our yogi master gave us each our own secret mantra, personalized for us alone. About a year later we checked and he had given us the same exact mantra! Years later, I checked on the internet and my mantra is one of the most common. I could even Google it and get about 1,000 hits.

          • Phil McKraken

            OK, this super-secret mantra thing, that caused a movie memory to come to me…

            In “Annie Hall,” there’s a party scene at Tony Lacey’s (Paul Simon) house in L.A. One of the party guests is Jeff Goldblum (bit part), and he’s on the phone, captured as a snippet of overheard conversation by Woody Allen’s roving camera. He’s saying into the phone “…I forgot my mantra…”

            Would that be his TM mantra?

        • Mark

          The yogis bouncing on their bottoms sounds like that “yogic flying” that TM was pushing a few years ago – lots of people in a lotus-asana frantically leaping about in a huge room with mattresses covering the floor. Possibly the ayurvedic veggie diet might have helped them gain altitude (see childishly flatulent comments elsewhere), but it put TM firmly into the loony-cult bracket as far as the media were concerned. Curious that the Rajneeshis should seem to be squirrelling stuff from TM, but maybe bottom-bouncing is a more widespread hobby in India than one thought…

          Still, I’m glad it did you so much good, even if you did have to put up with a little weirdness along the way!

          • Poison Ivy

            Well, I didn’t have to deal with the bouncing yogis; they were just down the street at the University which is why I heard of them. It was indeed “yogic flying.” The guy who’d gone to witness it said that yep, it was basically guys with towelheads bouncing on mattresses for hours and hours on end.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Wot? This means I and every kid in kindergarten classes became some kind of Yogi Magi then! I definitely don’t bounce at my age, but back then, my classmates were magical!

          • ze moo

            A variation of this is the russian ‘levitation’ gurus. A adept would bounce on an air mattress and prove their levitation by showing a graph of air pressure from the air mattress. I still prefer Uri Gellars spoon bending……

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              As someone who has been mattress shopping for the past few week, I just want to know the brand. Postualte-pedic?

            • Mark

              Geller’s latest trick is denying that he had any mysterious powers in the first place – though he’s still got that ridiculous Cadillac covered in bent cutlery, and continues to sell dubious ‘spiritual’ remedies at a nice profit.

            • FistOfXenu

              He what?! So does he explain why he lied about having powerz? Does he explain how he really did it? Does he apologize to Johnny Carson and The Amazing Randi for insinuating that some thing was wrong with them for being skeptical and making him look like a dipshit on national TV? Is he giving back money to people that paid him to show his sooper powerz?

            • Mark

              (Uri Geller voice): Oh no, no, noooo – none of that Andrija Puharich stuff about flying saucers and planet Hoova and me being laughed out of Israel is truuue… and I forgive Carson and The Amazing Randi toooo…

              Yup: the old fraud’s still trying to keep his lying face before the public – he was last spotted on TV here in the UK driving a sceptical reporter out of his palatial Georgian mansion; rather like Tommy’s hissy-fit over Xenu.

            • Captain Howdy

              “From James Randi, we have some interesting news about Uri Geller. In an interview with Magische Welt, Geller admitted to not having supernatural powers:

              “I’ll no longer say that I have supernatural powers. I am an entertainer. I want to do a good show. My entire character has changed.””

              He later claimed he was misquoted when thanks to the all stupid paranormal shit on History, Discovery channels etc., there was a renewed interest in his “abilities’

              http://skepticsplay.blogspot.com/2008/01/uri-geller-retracts-psychic-claims.html

            • N. Graham

              He would need to do a seance first before he could apologize to Johnny Carson.

            • FistOfXenu

              Sad but true. But not much of a challenge to a guy that can stop your watch and bend your spoons over TV. Oh wait, he can’t.

          • Phil McKraken

            Claims of levitation are kind of common on Hindu sects and cults in India.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          PI, you’re welcome to the Bunker Southern SP Society Spa and Pool anytime, Free entry! We use music instead of silence, and I make some mean fruit and or veggie power smoothies. About those Indian spices….you will have to bring your own And a port o potty (only 1 bathroom here). I had some Indian spices once, on a pizza in Scotland! It too was quite a spiritual experience which I have never repeated. I went “exterior” when the burn finally fizzled out. Thankfully, my plane was delayed for several days due to blackout storms.

          But we guarantee you will leave smiling or your spices will be cheerfully returned!

          http://i39.tinypic.com/o7u0x3.jpg

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Whoop Whoop!

            Edit: We wear hats. We avoid rats!

    • FistOfXenu

      Oh yeah, that’s what I meant to say before. Thanks for the reminder Racnad. Anybody ever hear of a Marine D.I. that did $cientology? Me neither. Anybody ever see a Marine D.I. that didn’t have focus and determination and a whole lot more? So maybe they don’t move ash trays without touching them but I guarantee you they can make you get your sorry ass off the deck long after you think you’ll never move again. I swear I was levitated at least a dozen times just by the sound of his voice. Now THAT’S command intention.

      • villagedianne

        Yes, DI’s have intention. But I have heard that DI’s have a high divorce rate, because after projecting intention all day, they find it hard to interact normally at home. Intention can be a double-edged sword.

        • Missionary Kid

          There’s always people who take their work home with them. The Great Santini was one of them. Pat Conroy said his dad was Santini, and after he retired and discovered that his children were afraid of him, to his great credit, he changed.

          You get the same thing happening with actors who take their character into their personal life.

      • Missionary Kid

        At least in the Marines, you aren’t encouraged to disconnect. You get leave and liberty and you get to have your own thoughts.

        The brainwashing and reprogramming that goes on has a purpose: that Marines act as a unit for a military purpose. It isn’t meant to dominate or be hostile to civilians.

        • FistOfXenu

          True. There are safety features built into the Marines, mostly. It can go wrong some times but the stuff that goes wrong isn’t official policy. And we don’t turn on each other.

          • Missionary Kid

            It’s a brotherhood, in and out of active duty. Two words can mean a lot: Semper Fi.

            There’s another informal society that I belong to, and that’s the one for Preacher’s Kids, and a subset of that one, as a Missionary Kid.
            They’re all groups with shared experiences.
            I don’t belong to the group of Ex-$cientologists or Indies, because I’ve never been in, but I’m sure the the crucible of the experience does create a bond.

            • MissCandle

              MK, I am a member of both clubs, in a way. Kid of preacher and of marine (the same dad). He is wonderful.

            • Missionary Kid

              It took me a long time to be able to say that my dad, as much as people loved him, was an SOB as a father. He had the Missionary Neurosis: he took care of everyone else before his family. (I learned the term from another MK whose father was like mine).

              He also suffered from PTSD from the cruelty he witnessed by the Japanese towards the Chinese, as well as events that occurred in the Communist revolution.

              On top of that, he was a person of his generation, born just after the turn of the last century.

        • N. Graham

          And it doesn’t last your whole life. When you muster out, they don’t go to the airport and try to talk you into coming back. You are fed well. You are allowed to go to sleep and sleep a reasonable amount of hours. And best of all-NO STARING and Yelling at Ashtrays.

          • Missionary Kid

            You do take things out of it that are helpful for the rest of your life, but not the whole enchelada.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      And the other unintended consequence of these drills is that Scientologists become insular in their interactions with others. Their ritualistic approach, so praised and approved within their own community is frankly, odd and ineffective in the “real” world. How many times have we seen Scientolgists who are obviously using the Tech to confront? And how many times have we seen it backfire terribly?

      • Missionary Kid

        That accounts for a lot of the PR footbullets. It’s not based on reality.

        • PreferToBeAnon2

          Speaking of PR and reality… I just did a cursory check to see what the Co$ is up to PR-wise. Here is the current snapshot of press releases:

          * Training Venezuela Airport Personnel on TWTH
          * Scientologists Raising Awareness of Human Rights in Costa Rica
          * Sydney Scientologists Getting out the Truth About Drugs
          * Drug Education Part of San Gabriel Valley Boy Scouts Expo
          * CoS Launching a Safe Summer in East Tampa with TWTH
          * New Study Finds Most Teacher Training Is Doomed to Increase US Achievement Gap (Applied Scholastics)
          * Junior Soccer Match Kicks Off Human Rights Awareness
          * Tampa Bay Initiative: Tackle Teen Substance Abuse with “Truth About Drugs”
          * LRH Writers of the Future Contest (a couple of Press Releases on that)

          The drug education at the Boy Scouts Expo particularly disturbs me. Still targeting kids, and still focusing their front groups in other countries. Wish we could use our command intention to pierce the heart of this hydra-headed monster. We need a TR for that baby!

  • Phil McKraken

    One can only hope that the NZ TV program is luring the Sci spokesfool into blitz of actual questioning about the operation of the church, about the need for secret scripture, about defining fee-for-service vs donations, about the treatment of church employees … well you get the idea.

    Do any of our Kiwis know if this is possible on that particular program?

    • media_lush

      I always think one of the best questions any interviewer can ask a scion rep is their policy on disconnection….. wait for the usual denials ….. and then show them the hidden video footage of their former top spokesman Tommy Davis threatening just that

    • Vistaril

      The really annoying thing about this is that tax payer money is going into funding the show. Face TV is a small, community-interest type channel and attracts funds to ensure minority groups have access to some form of broadcast media. For those with the time and inclination . . . poons away!!

      info@facetv.co.nz

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        Well, you have to admit that Scientologists are very much a minority in our society!

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Not.Minor.Enough.

          • Captain Howdy

            Yea, the Shakers are my goal post.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Good goal………too bad about the furniture though

            • Captain Howdy

              yeah.

      • Andrew Robertson

        “Minority groups” That sums Scientology up! But as they’re a for-profit commercial organization why don’t they just buy advertizing time like other businesses?

        Andrew

    • JustCurious

      To be honest I never saw the program but from the website the show is said to be: “Often

      intellectual and thought provoking, “In Conversation” is relaxed,
      friendly, inquisitive rather than inquisitorial, and is an attempt to
      bring back the courteous and intelligent style of interviewing that was
      once so prevalent on television.” Although there is nothing
      fundamentally wrong with being be courteous, I have my doubts about the
      show. Anyway I programmed my TV to record it, so we’ll see 🙂

  • Bella Legosi

    Sometimes I wish Harry Potter were real so he could point his wand at Little Boots and shout RIDICULOUS!
    Or Expecto Petronum!

    That is prolly the last Potter ref I will make for the next year!

    • Sherbet

      Promise?

      • Bella Legosi

        Yes, I promise!

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          Don’t forget BTN’s evil woman memory. She’ll remember this and call you out on it.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Fuck that. I took a screen shot and put it in my Bunker Journal….that I don’t have

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Ha!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Look up to the top Floridian…Steely Dan!

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Yeah, just replied to you about it.

          • Bella Legosi

            No worries. I just might do it so I get me a little punishment!
            😉

    • Vistaril

      You have to remember Harry is an adolescent male, he has more important spells to cast . . .

      • sharon brown

        Splendid ! Getthefuckouticus is so stolenicus ! 😀 I think I just peed a little laughing ! I needed that, thanks !

    • Missionary Kid

      The spell for LRH and DM, is, “Begone, asshole!”

      • 0tessa

        … and make Voldemort disappear for good in all eternity!

  • Dwight Geiger

    What a great goverment we have.Allowing cults to exist and pay no taxes while stealing money from hard working people just to support their avarice life style.What kind of govenment allows this.Answer {THE U.S.GOVERNMENT} So everyone that files a tax form has to suck up and pay as well as go without things that they need just to support cults like scientology and every other stupid religion.Wake up people.

    • Poison Ivy

      I really hate this fact – I HATE that I pay taxes and my late elderly fixed-income Dad paid taxes and COB, with his lavish lifestyle, does not. I hate that.

      • ze moo

        DM is probably on salary at the cult. He should be paying taxes, even ‘real’ priests and pastors pay taxes.

        • Poison Ivy

          Yeah, he’s on salary. But come on, he lives the lifestyle of a multi-millionaire and probably pays taxes on a lower middle class number.

          • ze moo

            I do wonder if CO$ has learned from its past mistakes. The IRS took away or did not grant tax exempt status to Lron because the money flowed to Lron. The inurement of Lroon was the reason Co$ did not have tax exempt status until 93. While Lroon was alive and collecting suitcases of money, the cult was not entitled to a tax break. Lrooons death and the placing of his wealth into his archive project removed inurement as an issue.

            Is Davey arrogant enough to taunt the IRS with his inurement?? I just think so much money has moved under the table that it should be detectable. I shall search the IRS and see what documents the CO$ files. There should be some clues there.

            The past few years has seen a more open Swiss banking system. Germany has actually bought account names and amounts and prosecuted tax dodgers. I would hope any CO$ accounts in Swiss banks could get similar treatment in the US.

            Davey does live the high life, thanks to the scam. Does he have a burlwood toilet seat??

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              ” Lrooons death and the placing of his wealth into his archive project removed inurement as an issue.”

              At the time that DM was {negotiating} with the IRS, Co$ owed over 1 billion in back taxes. It would have wiped them out. I think the sheer number of legal cases against the IRS and the blackmail removed all issues on the table for the IRS. That was the one chess move that our government made that was the critical factor in them being alive and “legitimized” as a religion today. Makes me spit.

            • Bella Legosi

              That is why I think we should use the Patriot Act and NDAA to stick it to these assholes! May as well. You know NDAA or Patriot Act is never going away and if it does they will just pass the same shit along with a different name (Blackwater or School of the Americas anyone?) So, why don’t we use this piece of freedom destroying legislation to take down one of the world’s most vile cults?

            • sharon brown

              He’s not only arrogant enough, he’s been doing an Excellent job of getting away with multiple ” non – profit” Orgs ( pun intended ) evading taxes the rest of us law abiding citizens Have to pay ! I just threw up in my mouth a little typing those words… Uuuggghhhh !

          • sugarplumfairy

            If he pays taxes, someone would have put his returns online for all to see.. I haven’t heard about that, so I bet he doesn’t draw a salary.. I’m sure he has an expense account tho..

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      The basis of making religion tax free in America is sound. It is to keep religion and government separate. Originally, legitimate religious groups (and I do believe in this concept) upheld their side of this arrangement by performing good works, promoting real righteousness, staying out of government, etc.

      Unfortunately, it became obvious to some that this could easily become a tax dodge. And so the concept of “religion” has been stretched and stretched until it is almost (but only almost!) meaningless in America. Indeed, it was only after Scientology was condemned and under attack as a legitimate branch of science that LRH decided to convert the whole sordid mess into a religion.

      Scientologists make their case against the entire psychiatric field on the basis of a minority of abusive practices. It is just as wrong to condemn all religions on that same basis.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        The problem is the lack of oversight. The lack of oversight needs to be changed so any organization like scientology has to show the financial books. Now the other problem is lack of resources or specifically, no specific official group to look over these types of financial books. The IRS keeps repeating they don’t have enough staff or budget to check on 501C groups, charities, religious or otherwise. IRS official, don’t have link/name at moment, said they Only investigate if someone makes a complaint And the complaint has enough dox and enough rules broken.

        It’s a hole that needs to be filled. Scientology’s scam would be Over if authentic and factual financial books had to be recorded and reviewed. Applies to any scam, though, doesn’t it? This is Why many mlllions of $ has been spent over the years whenever the possibility of financial information could be revealed in court records, such as investigations Or lawsuits And why Gag Orders are a Must with any “payoffs”.

      • stateofcircle

        So if

        religion = tax free and
        scientology, the religion = science
        then
        science = tax free.
        So if
        science = field of knowledge
        and
        field of knowledge = career/profession/job
        then
        No payroll taxes.

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          Pad this out with about 12,000 more words and it could be a Bulletin…

  • PreferToBeAnon2

    Mind you, I am in no way comparing the efficacy of this TR with the sounds made in self defense or martial arts, but I do think it should be mentioned. In karate, there is a purpose for using sounds to accompany actions: it focuses your attention/control in a kind of mental ramp up, it can distract your opponent, it can be used to control one’s breath, it can give you a kind of boost (think grunting when getting up out of a chair or picking up a heavy object), it removes air from the lungs so that impacts can be absorbed better, and, most important here, it commands authority. Think of all of the “hi-ya’s.” It is also used in “battle cries.”

    And, of course, we use it when we get angry–as if shouting will somehow get across our meaning more or to force an action of some kind. (Or, using it to intimidate some poor Sea Ogre in the hopes of getting better results or to impart dominance or demand authority).

    Sound is also used in more peaceful and joyful situations: meditation (e.g., ommmmm), church song, by the canter at a synagogue, or by indigenous tribes to focus prayer.

    As with some of LRH’s stuff, there might be a kernel of truth with the relationship of sound and intention… But please note that the the key words in my first two paragraphs are: control, distraction, dominance, force, authority, intimidation. I think I’ll keep my ashtrays safe in the cupboard.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      All I can think of now is Maria Sharapova!

      • Missionary Kid

        I very briefly tried shot putting in high school. The champion U.S. shot putter was Dallas Long, as I remember it. As he released the shot, he’d utter a mighty grunt, so, of course, all us mannabees copied him.

        • There’s more and more evidence that we aren’t so much a speaking species as we are a musical or sounding species.

          “Spoken language is a special type of music,” said Anthony Brandt,
          co-author of a theory paper published online this month in the journal Frontiers in Cognitive Auditory Neuroscience.
          “Language is typically viewed as fundamental to human intelligence, and
          music is often treated as being dependent on or derived from language.
          But from a developmental perspective, we argue that music comes first
          and language arises from music.”

          http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/09/120918185629.htm

          The historic reference that comes to mind is the Rebel Yell, pre-Billy Idol.

          • PreferToBeAnon2

            Good article. Hubbard missed it–no music tech! I found this interesting:

            Brandt said more research on this topic might lead to a better
            understanding of why music therapy is helpful for people with reading
            and speech disorders. People with dyslexia often have problems with the
            performance of musical rhythm. “A lot of people with language deficits
            also have musical deficits,” Brandt said.

            More research could also shed light on rehabilitation for people who
            have suffered a stroke. “Music helps them reacquire language, because
            that may be how they acquired language in the first place,” Brandt said.

          • FLUNK_101

            “If I were not a physicist, I would probably be a musician. I often think in music. I live my daydreams in music. I see my life in terms of music.”

            ― Albert Einstein

            • q-bird

              “Information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom, wisdom is not truth,

              truth is not beauty, beauty is not love, love is not music. Music is the best.”

              — Frank Zappa

            • Missionary Kid

              Zappa zapped it.

            • Bella Legosi

              Nice quote! I was thinking today that music and math are universal languages.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            music is the universal language, say the poets.

            math is the universal language, say the scientists.

            mucus is the universal language, say the mothers.

            maalox is the universal language, say the seniors.

            And you can quote me on that.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Moscato is the universal language, says “a” squirrel…..

            • FistOfXenu

              And horseshit is the universal language said Liar Ron Humbug.

    • Vistaril

      Hmmmm . . . when I was doing my martial arts, including karate, the shouting had more to do with tightening diaphragm muscles than any heeby-jeeby intention/energy babble.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Yes! This!

      • PreferToBeAnon2

        That is a part of it, but not all of it.

    • FLUNK_101

      “In karate, there is a purpose for using sounds to accompany actions … kind of mental ramp up”
      I like that.

  • villagedianne

    Intention is a big concept in spirituality, and the idea has been around for a long time. Here is a quote attributed to Geothe but actually by William Hutchinson Murray (1913-1996), from his 1951 book entitled The Scottish Himalayan Expedition. :

    Until one is committed, there is hesitancy, the chance to draw back, always ineffectiveness. Concerning all acts of initiative and creation, there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. All sorts of things occur to help one that would never otherwise have occurred. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one’s favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance which no man could have dreamed would have come his way. Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now.

    As Claire pointed out, this may not be the best way to learn intention. Furthermore, Scientology builds a cage around this intention in order to further the aims of Scientology, even if they go against the parishoner’s common-sense self-interest. Even if it breaks up families or bankrupts people.

    Typical Hubbard. Take a true concept like intention, twist it to suit his own ends, to suck time, energy and money out of people in order to enrich himself. Now Miscavige is doing the same thing,

    When it’s all over for COS, and they let people out of INT, PAC base and FLAG, there are going to be some seriously mentally ill people coming out, who may not know how to make the smallest decision for themselves. So much for intention.

    • Poison Ivy

      “Scientology builds a cage around this intention in order to further the aims of Scientology, even if they go against the parishoner’s common-sense self-interest. Even if it breaks up families or bankrupts people.”

      So well said.

  • Bradley Greenwood

    I have finally come to understand that all the evil that Scientology perpetualtes is to offset the most BORING religion of all time

    • Sherbet

      At least all the shouting helps keep people awake.

      • sharon brown

        And it’s probably the 1 time they have permission to show emotions they’ve learned from Tiny Fists without being sent to the RPF !

  • Damian DeWitt

    I am glad that Claire and Tony mentioned the placebo effect and want to recommend a superb book on the subject by Dr. Howard Brody: The Placebo Response: How You Can Release the Body’s Inner Pharmacy for Better Health.

    It is meticulously researched and is available for only $0.99 on Kindle.

    Brody was deceived by Citizens Commission for Human Rights (CCHR) into appearing in their anti-psychiatry hate video “Making a Killing”.

    Dr. Brody is a physician with many years of experience in family medicine, who then got a PhD in Philosophy and Ethics and now teaches in the University of Texas Medical Campus’ medical humanities program.

    He has been a long-time critic of the pharmaceutical industry and has a blog Hooked: Ethics, Medicine, and Pharma.

    When he realized he had been deceived he wrote a post: “Public Announcement Regarding New Documentary Produced by Scientology-Related Group”:

    http://brodyhooked.blogspot.com/2008/11/public-announcement-regarding-new.html

    After Dr. Brody actually saw the DVD he wrote another article: “Living Up to Worst Expectations: Scientology DVD, ‘Makes a Killing’ ”

    http://brodyhooked.blogspot.com/2009/01/living-up-to-worst-expectations.html

    Brody is trained in philosophy and in this article he gives a fine critical analysis of Thomas Szasz
    critique of psychiatry upon which CCHR bases its hate-driven War on Psychiatry.

    Brody ends up calling “Making a Killing” as a hatchet-job on psychiatry, which is exactly what it is.

    • Poison Ivy

      Good info; interesting.

    • villagedianne

      Thanks for the info. Glad Brody woke up to the COS con.

  • dbloch7986

    Claire, you were right, five out of six.

    Coach: “Locate the space. Locate the object in that space. Command it as loudly as you can.”

    Student: “STAND UP.”

    Coach: “Acknowledge it as loudly as you can.”

    Student: “THANK YOU.”

    Coach: “Command it as loudly as you can.”

    Student: “SIT DOWN IN THAT CHAIR.”

    Coach: “Acknowledge it as loudly as you can.”

    Student: “THANK YOU.”

    Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

    ——————-

    The irony of it is that while the TRs are supposedly training you to deliver commands, they are actually designed to make you receptive to commands. It has nothing at all to do with learning how to communicate.

    • Missionary Kid

      LRH was a sneaky bastard, wasn’t he. Good post.

    • Remy

      Exactly! Let the robot programming commence!!

    • Intelligenceplus

      When I slumbered into the NN course room my first day, doing TR’s ‘eyes-closed’, I damn near had a bloody heart attack the first time someone yelled a BLOOD CURDLING SCREAM of “ASHTRAY STAND UP!!!” Seriously, I’m getting on in years – LOL 🙂

      • Bella Legosi

        I hate when I get jarred like that! Puts me instantly in an angry/self protecting state! I learned how to control my reaction to it some what. Years of babysitting toddlers and then going on to take care of mental illness patients kinda desensitized me in that regard. But, I firmly believe a woman really does react to screams or cries of children in the most instinctual ways. If I hear a kid or baby scream or cry out like that, I become scared to death/want to protect/kick ass all at the same time.

    • Bella Legosi

      Wow, thank you for elaborating! I was wondering if there was more to it!

      I can’t get over the repetitions in this cult. It really really does remind me of Brave New World (where 62,400 repetitions make a truth). That book scares me more then the prospect of 1984! I have thought about it some and have come to the conclusion that Co$ really is like 1984 and Brave New World merged. This is why I ponder from time to time if LRH really wasn’t a part of MKUltra in some form or another (unknowingly or knowingly).

      I really kinda hoped there would be a lot more to this routine! I would have been so angry had I paid for this!

    • ParticleMom

      Happy Birthday Derek!

      • dbloch7986

        Thank you ParticleMom!!!!

  • Xique

    Clam shells make convenient ashtrays. I keep them outside for anyone who might need them. Next time I pass by , I might have to give one the command, as loud as I can, for old times sake. “Stand Up , Thank you”! This is my intention. Then again….
    Claire, good lesson as usual.

    • Poison Ivy

      My mother used to use a clam shell ashtray at the beach.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        The hard part is catching them first. (I love any excuse to show this clip)

        http://youtu.be/i62YdabvAHo

        • Sherbet

          Obviously, they’re running toward the next org grand opening. Millions and millions of them in the world’s fastest growing religion. (No need to use snark indicators. Everyone knows it’s a joke.)

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            I thought they were running from the Regges. that would make a good movie title: “Running of the Regges”.

            • sugarplumfairy

              oooohhhhh.. with bulls.. Yah!!

        • Captain Howdy

          I’m surprised D.M hasn’t made that a reality. That’s definitely something the real Little Boots would have appreciated for it’s humiliating sadism.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            watching MeTV on tablet now…I see a nun.

            • Captain Howdy

              That’s Ellen Burstyn.

      • FLUNK_101

        Was your mother a mermaid?

      • Robert Eckert

        And it turned into a business opportunity: she sells seashells on the seashore.

  • I am

    Having played sports, I, too, have experienced the out of the body feeling along with intentions happening upon postulate. It is an amazing experience. I did not experience this with the ash tray. I just became more aware of intention as I recall.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist
      • Missionary Kid

        Looks like a good book, but I’m cheap, and not gonna spend $99 for it.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          There’s plenty of free info on the subject on the net and in the libraries. It’s actually a VBD, Very Big Deal, to scientologists. When you see the videos of them blatherin on about “blowdowns” “my space was huge” “floating TA” “exteriorized” etc, well, some were lying at the time, but many do eventually experience it.

          It’s especially true if they’ve gone too many times over the years stressed to the max, stretches of sleep deprivation, gulping far too many noxious supplements, mentally deteriorating after “talking” to too many invisible “thetans”, etc. It is a very imporant part of the recovery process that they educate themselves about what happened to them.

          • PreferToBeAnon2

            As someone who has experienced it a few times, it’s an amazing phenom. What gets me pissed is the way LRH induces it and uses it as spiritual woo woo for his own gains. (Not to minimize, of course, the benefits of spying your neighbor’s patio furniture.)

            • Missionary Kid

              Spiritual woo-woo. Exactly.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              every college student who’s pulled an all nighter has experienced it. Even Harvard college students spent less in four years than a scientologist does in four years!

            • sugarplumfairy

              I experienced it a few times too.. But then we broke up..

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              I think he must have been my second husband, which I didn’t have.

            • Missionary Kid

              I get it. You mean like LRHs second wife, that he didn’t have.

            • sugarplumfairy

              You know why I love it here? Because I make a wisecrack and think I’m hilarious and two minutes later, somebody tops me..

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              I love it here because people like you bring my inner funny out.
              but You Are hilarious, and I mean that
              seriously.

              also, it really Was my second husband!

            • sugarplumfairy

              Did you know the original title for Dianetics was War, What is it Good For?

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Absolutely!

              As straight man, I got Nothin’

            • BuryTheNuts2

              “As straight man, I got Nothin'”

              Just like LRH!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Hey wait a sec. I thought the title was “Coat Hangers, What are They Good For?”

            • sugarplumfairy

              Lol.. I was going to say Women, What are they Good For but I thought it would make the Seinfeld joke reference too obscure..

            • Andrew Robertson

              When I was aged about eleven, I used to think “What are girls good for? They’re not interested in building model aeroplanes and they can’t play cricket.”

              But as I got older my priorities changed. (Though I’ve never met a woman who could hit the wickets side-on from sixty yards when fielding in the covers.)

              Andrew

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I thought it was knitting needles?

              My bad!

            • sugarplumfairy

              Aaaaggghhhh..

            • BuryTheNuts2

              hehehe

            • Robert Eckert

              “sticks of orangewood” actually were the weapon of choice by LRH’s wannabe abortionists

            • Missionary Kid

              {{{Nobody tops me!!!}}}

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I bet Brooklyn Decker could……………just sayin…..

            • Missionary Kid

              Easily.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Hey.. She doesn’t have anything I don’t have about 8 or 9 inches less of..

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Or that I don’t have 8 or 9 inches more of…………!

              The Bitch!

            • Robert Eckert
            • Missionary Kid

              Nice try, but it’s top, not touch. 😉

            • ParticleMom

              I’m a bottom. And I am terrible at snark.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Ain’t it great…Its like a “game”.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              We’re a competitive bunch with our snark.

          • Missionary Kid

            If you’ve read what I’ve written in the past, I’ve experienced all of those. Our Greek troll from Indyland just couldn’t understand that there were alternate explanations for the out of body experiences I’ve had that differ from “scientist” LRH.

            Talk about a flat learning curve! No matter that I had rational explanations, where the experiences came from, he could only be amazed that I wasn’t a convert. There are none so blind that will not see.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I had rational explanations for him too!
              He just thought we were “oatees” who were too dumb to know it.
              He even went over to Marty’s and yammered about it.

              Rolls my eyes.

            • Missionary Kid

              Yeah, he thought we were misguided. *snort*

      • I am

        Did you pay the $100, Hole?

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          no way! But this is science. It’s still cheaper than $350,000.05

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Holy Clam on a Beach! All the tedious repetitions of repetitious courses and drills of TR’s and Objectives and Purif and more TR’s with ashtrays which Claire Headley has dragged you all through so far … all at the very bottom of the scientology bridge … is exactly what Miscavige has been ordering OT’s to redo using GAT I , and now All scientologists to redo yet again using GAT 2 so they are fully prepared for … wait for it….Super Power!

    That’s not even the Holy Clam part. Dan Koon has been kind enough to create a 118 page PDF of Super Power rundowns as he “recollects” since he was one of the main compilers of drek, I mean tech. Most of the doc is relevant Hubbard tech bulletins. While he somehow doesn’t recollect the Cause Resurgence Rundown (it was called the Running Program initially), he makes it clear by his layout that every rundown is just a Repeat of earlier, mostly lower level bridge actions! It might take a moment for this to sink in.

    If Miscavige has truly gone over the edge and releases this to public, it will be the end of his reign. The 30 and 40 year veterans, the multimillion donating whales, will explode and revolt all over the place.

    Dan of course puts a glowing spin on Hubbard’s intent. Super Power came about because sea org staff were leaving. This was after Operation Snowwhite, after the majority had been thrown in the RPF to supply Hubbard with free slave labor for renovations, after many were half starved, half baked, wholly mentally and physically broken in every way. Hubbard pretended he was shocked to learn of Snowwhite, of the RPF situation, of the true condition of his slaves who were not supplying enough labor, not slaving Hard enough, not producing enough free cash for his suitcases to suit him, and more were thinking of running. He conjured up Super Power for these slaves enticing them with “repair of unfair ethics and justice”, then eliminating their evil intentions and then gifting them with revival of learning skills and being able to figure out that if they steal or murder or hurt someone, there might be consequences.

    Super Power is the same as the “presents” the husband comes back with after he’s humiliated and beaten the crap out of his spouse which includes books and courses on how to be an Ideal Mouse/Spouse and stop whining. The only difference is … this one has a shiny gyro ride and an eery oiliness table which I still want to see in action.

    http://www.xenu.net/archive/SuperPower/Super%20Power-1.pdf

  • Captain Howdy

    Cross eyed cult goddess Karen Black is on “The Big Valley” playing a crazy chick..she’s doing a great job.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      what channel?

      • Captain Howdy

        MeTV

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Hells bells, I got distracted and missed it. I Do remember she had all these smaller roles. I also remember she seemed to me like a flower missing too many petals, not dead on the vine, but struggling to keep from turning into a weed. There was something familiar and likeable about her, approachable, but then when you got too close, looked too sharply, there was that psychlo tick that jumped out and scared you. Well, not You, Cap’n, but me. Now she’s just another reminder not to waste your time or money in a cult. What a waste.

          • sugarplumfairy

            How sad..

    • 1subgenius

      Damn. I went out with a woman who was cross-eyed. She was hot.

  • 0tessa

    All this shouting to objects in order to increase ‘intention’ , while intention is in fact focused attention, does not make any sense. It will have the exact opposite as result. Focused attention is attained in silence.
    Hubbard’s drill are just magical exercises.
    It’s what I think.

    • Missionary Kid

      Yup. It’s just to distract the person while they’re manipulating them.

      • Remy

        Exactly. It’s mind control.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      “Focused attention is attained in silence”

      Are you sure about that?

      http://i40.tinypic.com/2vsezar.jpg

  • 1subgenius

    Why an ashtray?

    • DMSTCC

      Abundance?

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      have you been in an org?

    • sugarplumfairy

      Because they’re so easily trainable..

    • FistOfXenu

      LR Humbug came up with the drill {when he was trying to cure himself of all his war wounds by the power of his mind.} He was {so badly injured and blinded from his heroic combat} that {he couldn’t stand and walk} to fetch an ash tray to catch the ashes from his heavy smoking. {Somehow he discovered moving ash trays just with his mind.} And when he realized {this was 1 of his OT powers he invented a drill to teach it to others} {{{because he’s the amazingly generous best friend of mankind.}}}

      • George Layton

        The first time he did it, it whopped him between the eyes, but it didn’t seem to knock any sense into him. Oh by the way, Mary Sue was the intent behind the ash tray’s movement.

        • FistOfXenu

          Really?

        • Robert Eckert

          More likely it was the second wife that he didn’t have.

    • grundoon

      In the 40’s and 50’s everybody smoked and there were ashtrays everywhere, not more than arm’s length from anyplace where people would sit, stand or lie down. It was just a common small object that everybody would have.

    • 0tessa

      Hubbard was a smoker.

  • Michael Leonard Tilse

    Then there is 200 foot TR-8.

    • dbloch7986

      100 Yard TR 1

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Is that like four 50ft Wimmen standing tall?

      http://i39.tinypic.com/2vualix.jpg%5B/IMG

      • DMSTCC

        {}

      • FLUNK_101

        Great image … and a great song by The Tubes! Attack! Attack!

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Thanks. I didn’t know that! Just listened. I like it, except their singer still creeps me out.

          • Missionary Kid

            I saw the Tubes live, and it was before music videos were popular. Their costume changes were instantaneous, right on stage. (This was about 82 or 83, I think).

            Since I was friends with the security at the amphitheater, they let me and my kids, if they were with me, in free. I didn’t push it, so often I would take a place at the rear of the theater. I got to see George Benson, Bonnie Raitt, Carlos Santana, and many others. Sometimes they gave me a backstage pass.

            I didn’t realize that one part of the Tubes’ act included one of them coming out on stage in exaggerated glam-rock costume with about 10 inch platform shoes, a huge, teased wig, Spandes, and all the paraphernalia. That was O.K., and it was spectacular.

            The problem was that included with the costume, and sewn on to the front of his pants, was a huge fake penis. My boys were about 11 and 8. I chose not to make a big deal out of it, and they didn’t mention it afterwards, so I kept quiet. I was glad that we were sitting in the back.

            I just revealed it to them recently. They hadn’t noticed.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Another reason to not miss the evening posts at the Bunker! You had kids in the early 80’s? This story is rich! Your boys must have rolled their eyes when you brought it up, considering what’s on stage and any media outlets since then. Remind me some time to tell you the story about my hubby (rock n roller at the time with hair down to his butt) chauffeuring David Bowie in a VW van and Bowie in his full Spiders from Mars outfit and hair and makeup tooling down main streets of the midwest…there’s a scientology connection in there, but my senior citizen moment is bubbling up right now.

            • Missionary Kid

              My sons just laughed when I told them about the Tubes. They’re in their 40s, or nearly so. I never tried to be a “Cool Dad,” but I knew their friends thought I was, because I’d been involved with sports and Scouts and other activities. I also ignored any “embarrassment” they would claim at something I did, because I knew it was mostly just teenage self-centerdness. What other dad would drop his kid off at school on a motorcycle?

              I took them to a lot of films that their friends weren’t allowed to see, but it gave them an appreciation of movies that they still have. I thought the Tubes performance was over the top for the boys’ ages at the time.

              I also got to see a lot of kids films with them.

      • Michael Leonard Tilse

        Well, basically, it’s the communication drills done 200 or 300 feet apart.

        You do it until the person that far away can hear you perfectly. When I did it, it didn’t seem to be about how hard I yelled, it seemed to be about how much I focused my intent on them.

        TR-8, you have a chair and an ashtray and you tell it to stand up and sit down. The person I was doing it with would pick it up or set it down when they got my communication. Yes very weird.

        But, to this day, I have what a friend calls a 1000 yard voice. When I need to get someone’s attention urgently, I use it. Another one of those things people don’t expect. I don’t know quite how I do it.

        Funny story: When I was the Sea Org, I was doing TR-3 with Jim Hollcraft. We were on the EPF and this was part of the study. TR-3 is where you do the ‘duplicative question’, asking “do fish swim” or “do birds fly”.

        Well, we were doing pretty good at this. He was asking the question and I was answering, and flunking when he didn’t get it right or I didn’t answer and he failed to say “I’ll repeat the auditing question: do fish swim?”

        I got it in my head to see how good his observation was, so I reduced my volume, flunking him each time he didn’t hear me correctly. I kept doing this, gradually getting to the point at the end where I was not making any noise, just saying my answer inside my head.

        I continued to flunk him when he didn’t get right that I answered or didn’t answer. This went on for a while and then we had about 10 minutes where he correctly handled what I was saying in my head, not out loud. It was pretty exciting.

        I guess that he was picking up some facial or body cue or ‘tell’ that changed with an answer or a non-answer. I really doubt it was telepathy. But it was kind of cool and very exciting and we thought it was telepathy at the time.

        I got reamed for it as being squirrel as hell.

  • JonathanRoberts

    This to me is just the writings of a sociopath/conman coupled with a sociological diatribe of the diarrhea that flowed from his mouth. Scientology is for all intents and purposes Dead a few more years still dead.

    Now how can we as a society stop something like this from ever occurring again that interests me. That along with any current events that speed their demise via Tony’ great writing.

    Other than that I am really no longer interested in reading of a madman.

    • sugarplumfairy

      It ain’t dead enough.. trust me, I’m a nurse..

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        listen to SugarPlum, Jonathan. Trust me. Listen good!

    • Remy

      Seems like Hubbard could go off the grid fairly easily, and just keeping moving back then was enough to stay off the radar. Not so much, anymore. Hubbard would never have a chance in this era. Imagine if everyone had smart phones on the Freewinds when LRH was drugged up and talking out of his ass!! Imagine the tweets and facebooking of live videos!

  • Jgg2012

    This is slightly off-topic, but isn’t Scientology like a reality TV show? Consider: RTV is big in Hollywood (although, for the life of me, I can’t see why), Scientology is definitely popular in Hollywood compared to other cults; they both use sleep deprivation and sadistic abuse, and ruin lives; they both do shocking things; they both follow people around 24/7.

    • ze moo

      That means Lron was the Honey Boo Boo of the 70’s. I can see it…..

      • Jgg2012

        The musical chairs episode Miscavige did was classic reality TV.

  • AKlein

    My take on the TRs as a never-in is that they teach you to give orders and, more importantly, take orders without question. They also teach you to take abuse without fighting back (bullbaiting). Important skills for a Ronbot. There seems to be little to no two way communication involved.

    • Remy

      Exactly. You nailed it!

  • Kiwichick

    Tony, thanks so much for the heads up about the ‘program of non information’ coming up in NZ. Unfortunately it is only available in Auckland so hopefully some other kiwis will be able to tune in and report on.

  • BuryTheNuts2

    STEELY DAN
    St. Augustine Amphitheatre
    Sunday, September 08, 2013
    Saint Augustine, FL

    Just sayin…….

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Oh man….do they have flights from here to there?

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Fuck flights…I can come get you….in the “Scion”!

        BWWWAAAAAHHHHAHAAAAAHHHHAAHHHH

        We can stay in Flagler Beach. I got connections baby!!!

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          My back doesn’t do long haul driving. I did that enough years of tours. Hmmmmm.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            We can stop along the way and let you out to run a long side the car for awhile?
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            When my dad was a cop in Las Vegas he handcuffed an un-ruly hooker to his car door once and trotted her ass to the Police station at 4mph.

            Disclaimer: My dad was not as “good” a cop as SPF’s was.
            But he did make Sergeant!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Wow, BTN….this sound like a road trip made in heaven!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              No, St. Augustine would just point and laugh at them,
              But we might be able to convince them we were the REAL NAVY and get a discount????

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Um, Bury….September 14, Ruth Eckerd…Clearwater.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              HOLY SHIT? REALLY?

              See what my ADHD does to me!!!!!

              LETS DO IT!!!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              We would have to get tickets … like yesterday

              Hell, for the same price flying to Jacksonville we could go to Beacon Theater in NY, …

              they will be there an entire week!

              http://www.steelydan.com/#dates

            • BuryTheNuts2

              oy vey!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              I’ll call tomorrow. Can’t get tickets online! I’ll bet all the wealthier patron members, all older farts like me (without the wealth) bought up all the tickets already. Will let you know.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              It’s those scalping companies that were made legal a while ago. Now, they’re trying to reverse the decision. Derp!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              let us pray!

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              I don’t always pray, but when I do……it’s for fucking tickets! I DID pay double price for Rush, but hey, it’s Rush!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              RUSH!!!!

              I gave perfectly good qualude’s to a bunch of folks in the front row of the Aladdin theater in Vegas ….So I could scarf their seats….(they were on the floor, we stood in the seats, hehehe)

              It was awesome. They don’t “do” much onstage…but they sound fuckin great!!!!
              I LOVE RUSH!!!

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Don’t DO much? Sheeeet woman, three people SOUND like 5 or 6. They’re busy. No time for dancing around like N’Sync.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Yeah, they sound awesome and I am half deaf from that concert alone…but it is not like they jump around like wang chung or something.

              Quick, Favorite RUSH song ever…(can’t be off of 5150)

              LOL…Did I just say that? 5150? LOL again
              ok 2112

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              I am giving you the benefit of the doubt, but 5150 was a joke, right? Otherwise, you’re off the Xmas card list.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Well yes it was a joke,,,, but an inadvertent one……
              That I am still chuckling over btw.

              Seriously, i am trying to see Sammy Hagar singing for Geddy Lee.
              OK, Idont deserve a xmas card!
              touche’

            • Espiando

              Favorite Rush song ever: “The Body Electric” and/or “Subdivisions”. But then again, I only started to like Rush when they started putting the synths in. Blame AOR Chicago radio for playing them to death.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              good call!!!!!!

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Same album. “Between the wheels”. But yeah, the 100-100-1-SOS is epic in an IRobot, Asimovian way.

            • Espiando

              Doesn’t the whole of Grace Under Pressure sound like a Scilon nightmare? Seriously, think about it. “Distant Early Warning”, “Red Sector A”, “The Body Electric”…it sounds like the most fucked-up Whole Track auditing session set to a kick-ass soundtrack.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              as Hubbard and BFF Tom Cruise would say: “Pfffft! Spectators….They’re Glib!”

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Oh Mother (or Mary or somebody or something) full of grace or…whatever………..

              fuck it……………

              TACOS!!!!!!!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Let me know on the cell. I so wanna go!

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Correct, conditioned air rather than hot ass amphitheater.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Lol..

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            Drive faster! I’ve got turbo power. As Top Gear would say, “Speeeeeeeeeeeeeed!”

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              If I score extra tickets, or any…you’re in! drive faster…that’s funny.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Sweetness! See, I did get a Sci reference in there.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        I am sure they would have Tampa to J-ville flights.
        Just a skip from there.
        And we wouldn’t have to take Mr. Nuts. He HATES Steely Dan.

        • Captain Howdy

          “He HATES Steely Dan.”

          What, he doesn’t appreciate 70’s over produced soft fusion “rock” played by studio musicians?

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            Just imagine this with ONLY Steely Dan tracks for eternity:

            http://catacombosoundsystem.com/

            • Captain Howdy

              It burns, it burns!

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            I like you Anyway, Cap’n, even if you are a music snobbola. (ducking out now)

            • Captain Howdy

              I’m not a music snob. The Berkllee music school berks are the snobs. They hang on Fagen’s every word like he’s Dylan or somethin’. The music makes want to put on a polyester suit and do some nose candy.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              i do agree Fagen was WAY overrated.

            • Espiando

              Okay, confession time: I love the whole of “The Nightfly”. I was also an intellectual snob teenager when I fell in love with it. I’m not saying it justifies it, but at least I hate “Kamakiriad”. Can I be saved?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Of course you can be saved. Because at least you admit you were an intellectual snob!

              (Not that anyone of us with a pulse could not have figured that out already)

              🙂

              I am giving out free passes for forgiveness for “Kamakiriad”, because you and John P are the only people who prolly ever heard it.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Like hes Dylan….thank you!
              Only Dylan be Dylan!

            • stateofcircle

              Berklee music snobs are the worst, I was engaged to one for a little bit. They make it impossible to just enjoy a song and never, ever, ever hesitate to let you know precisely and in great detail why what you’re listening to sucks.

            • Captain Howdy

              Exactly and I met more than my share in allston/brighton when I was selling the assholes drugs.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            First…LOL.
            Second……

            “Aja” bugged him.
            There is only two things I like that he HATES (a lot):
            Steely Dan
            Bill Frissell

            But I feel the same way about John Maclaughin and the Mahavishnu Orchestra (gags).

            Marriage is a compromise of the FIRST ORDER!!!!!

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Oh and by the way. I have a polarizing relationship with Steely Dan myself.
            I fucking hate “hey Nineteen” so much it is unreal…bleecch

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              That’s a “guy” song for sure.

            • Espiando

              This guy hates it too.

            • Captain Howdy

              I told you I saw Steely Dan as the opening band for Slade, Humble Pie at Winterland in ’73. When Dan played I stood in front of Fagen booing and giving him the finger because he had slagged Slade in CREEM magazine the month before. it was beautiful.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Humble Pie with Steve Mariott was one of the best bands…if not the best…i ever saw!

              and no, i must have missed that story!

            • Captain Howdy

              Humble Pie were FREAKING LOUD! I wasn’t even a real fan before that, but I was afterwards. Best bands I ever saw were the Who, Flipper and The Clash plus about a 1000 others on any given night.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Love.The.Clash.

              Favorite song is still that ballad: straight to hell!

            • Captain Howdy
            • Sherbet

              What the heck is going on? Did I just stumble upon a PBS telethon pushing pop CDs for a contribution from viewers like you?

            • Captain Howdy

              Don’t blame me, blame the steely dan dames.

            • Sherbet

              I sympathize with you, Howdy, because Paul McCartney is in town tonight, and I think the guy should have been put out to pasture a long time ago.

            • Captain Howdy

              Exactly. Rock was meant to be the music of youthful rebellion, not nostalgia for the elderly..like me.

            • Sherbet

              Right. I’m with you, gramps. Now pass the prune juice, and turn up the Victrola.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              elderly like you my ass. we are the same age!
              get crackin gramps!

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              I used to date Becker’s sister.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Go MLT!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              No friggin way! When?

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              1982 or so.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Come up to present time, Captain!! You’re glib! They were young….so they made a little mistake….get over it…Snap out of it! Where’s SPF!!!

              http://youtu.be/4NpJcWba3Tw

            • BuryTheNuts2

              And her violin case”!!!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Cap’n will probably not speak to me for a week now.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Ah, he will get over it.
              They all do 🙂

            • Captain Howdy

              You wish!

            • sugarplumfairy

              Lol.. Can’t keep up with the comments .. ‘puter probs..

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Don’t be glib…Or a wuss.
              Put on your big girl panties and keep the fuck up!

            • Sherbet

              Do a touch assist: Control-Alt-Delete

        • MissCandle

          Don’t be a wimp. It’s only a 4 hour drive from Tampa. It’s 1 1/2 hour drive from Jax airport.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            I am in the middle. i can do both!!!

            And you started it!!!!

            Edit: I went to St. Marys last weekend cuz I was bored!

            • MissCandle

              The Picadilly cafeteria in Ocala (yeah, I know, but my parents are 88) is exactly halfway between Tampa and St. Augustine.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Is that the place on SR40 where the old folks go? I think I know of it!
              Ouch!

              (Ok, they are 88)

            • MissCandle

              I know, I know. I used to drive them back and forth to visit relatives. That’s how I know that sad sad sad fact.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I understand!
              Reully.

              I think Mr. Nuts and I ate there once when we first moved to town and thought we were in a zombie movie.
              yep.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              My father heard on the autotrain ride down here about the Villages. He thought it sounded like a nice place he might want to move to. I had to explain to him it had the highest sales of Viagra and Cialis per-capita of nearly anywhere in the county.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              And you don’t even know about the “shoe codes”.
              I work for the utility company that supplies those old crazies most of their energy.
              I got DEETS!

              They are cray, cray old perverts!

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Huh? I’m almost afraid to ask….

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Oh, if you are wanting to get laid in the villages you are supposed to wear gold or red shoes on the weekends (ladies).
              They have these parties in the (3) squares every weekend.
              It is a blast..well, if you are like me and show up to dance in black clogs and just watch the rest…

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Gilfs, here I cum. I’ll get my Usain Bolt, gold tracks shoes out of the closet.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            It’s not BTN, it’s me and my back and also, I spent many years on the road on tour with smelly male musicians and it was Engramatic!

            • MissCandle

              OK, sorry, you get a pass.

        • Captain Howdy

          Go down to the Denny’s and ask JT for a ride.

          • MissCandle

            In his plane.

            • Sherbet

              Upside down?

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Perfect!

            • sugarplumfairy

              Silly!

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            She’ll need some man-bait.

            • Captain Howdy

              Just what I was thinking. She could tell him she’s bringing her 18 year old nephew as a birthday present and she could whip out some picture of a male model.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Hey, I got this new SLR zoom camera and I was thinking about going over to his subdivision to see if I could get a shot of him smooching his nanny!

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Nanny or Manny?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Um, unsure….lol

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      I really wanted to get tickets for the show at Ruth Eckerd, but those damn ticket scalping companies buy them all up right away and then charge nearly double face value. Rat bastards.

      Oh and Kathy Griffin is in Clearwater in July. Wonder if she does Scilon jokes in her set. I’ve heard her do some before…

    • Remy

      Hope they come to the Heartland!

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Here’s up to date schedule. pro tip: buy tickets as soon as they are available. they sell out fast, which probably irritates the hell out of our beloved Captain Howdy.

        http://www.steelydan.com/#dates

  • Captain Howdy
    • BuryTheNuts2

      The fucking comments are Epic!!!!

      • sugarplumfairy

        ‘Fess up, Bury.. Are you Bigt*ts McPlotdevice? Her avatar is Mimi Rogers.. I know it’s you!

        • BuryTheNuts2

          I wish!!!
          No really. I hate it when they win!!!

      • Captain Howdy

        I’m surprised that ML or mook weren’t up on that one. It’s ha ha hilarious!

        • BuryTheNuts2

          No shit! Who are those people? They need to be invited to our party!!!

          • ParticleMom

            Agreed!

        • media_lush

          I’d posted quite a few articles on my bollocks blog about this particular Travolta tidbit* but only read a couple comments….. but it’s always good to find a site that has funny commentators… I’ll look out for the site from now on and make a point of reading them {PS – check out my South Park post I’ve just put up}

          • Captain Howdy

            I was joking. Isn’t it like 3:00 AM where you are?

            • media_lush

              i keep extremely eclectic hours and am often awake when most others aren’t…. rather than the regular 8 hours I’ve managed to train my body to work on 2 x 3 hours a day with varying gaps; weird, I know but it seems to work for me. I visit my uni buddies every couple of months [outside the UK] and when I come back I sleep pretty much 18 hours solid which reboots my system.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      pure gold!

      • Captain Howdy

        “Zero Mostel had more dignity!”

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Sean O’Neal’s first paragraph is still shaking my timbers. It was loaded with ammo

    • Missionary Kid

      I agree with his comments on the movie, Flight. Flying magazine did two devastating dissection of the movie, first by Peter Garrison who wrote about the structural problems, a month ago, then again, this month by an airline pilot.

      BTW, the plane that went into the ocean off of Oxnard did go inverted, but it was still on its way down. It couldn’t be saved by the maneuver in the movie.

      The jabs at JT, his gayness and Co$, I appreciated, because they were right on.

      Story:
      I used to work with a guy who I discovered was a pilot. We ended up being friends, and even though both of us don’t work there, and he’s moved away, we still are.

      Not too long after we met and became friends, someone at work mentioned that he was gay, and I remembered thinking, “He can’t be gay, he’s a pilot.” Then I thought about what had just gone through my head and laughed. He is gay, and when I told him about it, and we had a good laugh.

  • BuryTheNuts2

    LOL, folks… Do you think Tony O. is reading this thread…saying what the Fuck?
    teeheee hee

    • Sherbet

      Some days, we need a Hall Monitor in the Bunker to pass out detention slips.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        But it’s all relative. John Travolta talking about passing on a juicy role because it wasn’t “realistic” begs for comedic relief, and I started rumors long ago and far away about Steel Dan as background music to the earlier Bunker, actually Village Voice Ortega threads, but if you listened close, all of us agreed that all kinds of music, just like all kinds of characters and all kinds of commentors, make up the whole basket of Bunker bites.

        It’s all the flavors that make this place so tasty.

        • Sherbet

          Oh, I know Steely Dan is the Bunker’s house band, Hole-y.

          • Captain Howdy

            Not mine, Sherb-y

            • Sherbet

              Wouldn’t have been my choice, either, but the majority rules. Anyway, maybe it was between Steely Dan and Kenny G.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Don’t get me started. I got stories about Mr. G. I know cats who toured with him.

            • Sherbet

              Um, OK, between Steely Dan and Michael Bolton, then.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            No no no, Sherb. Steely Dan is just the Intro to the entire tapestry of the Bunker classical orchestra. It’s a BunkerBalooza!

            It’s Irish stew and Italian antipasto and Jewish chicken soup and Mexican enchiladas. It’s Stellar Journalism meets South Park/Colbert Report Snarkism and Live Reports and Real Stories that will make you mad as hell, drop you to your knees, and then zing you with some funny worthy of a Seinfeld (like SugarPlumFairy who is That good). I am finding that this community is growing and pretty soon we are going to need Poison Ivy to provide a character guide to follow the script. There is Nothing like this place anywhere and I now find it more fascinating and entertaining and educational than anything on TV or even shopping on Amazon. Tony’s got a winner.

            • Sherbet

              A perfect description, TheHole! Many times I think of passing by the Bunker for a day or so, but, here I am, every single day — and lovin’ it!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Me too. I keep trying to extricate myself, but can’t!

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              What happened to nite-nite? Good to your room young lady!

            • Sherbet

              Here’s a nite-nite from me. I have to sleep between posting sessions. Tony, we need cots in the Bunker. Ciao from me. Yawn.

            • Sherbet

              Work doesn’t stop me. Being busy around the house doesn’t stop me. Vacation doesn’t, well, you get it. I’m here waaaay too much, but not nearly enough.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Me too. The part that really amazes me is that I still get other shit done.

              I don’t know how?

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              That’s an excellent slogan. The Bunker, you can be here way too often and it’s never enough.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      I’m going to guess he has us on ignore after Jimmy Buffet Hour. Also, he tweeted being up all night and morning for the mets, so….

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Excuse me, waiter? What’s the special?

      Oh sir, we have a very nice, double thick chop of Derail tonight. Would you care for some?

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Well,.. it is not like he is not used to it!
        I think he gave up that ghost before leaving the VV.

    • TonyOrtega

      Huh? What’s that? Sorry, I was listening to Cygnus X-1.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Ok, now I have a totally not gay man crush!

        Edit: but seriously, I hope our insane banter gives you a little entertainment as a meager payback for all that you do.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        I KNEW I LOVED YOU!!!!
        DAMN!!!!

      • Captain Howdy

        Cygnus X-1? So you were either listening to a black hole or Rush. I hope it was a black hole.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          I love black holes.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            I love both

      • DMSTCC

        I suggest next be up with ByTor and finish it up with Andrew Gold’s – Lonely Boy

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Andrew Gold’s – Lonely Boy

          EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

          • DMSTCC

            Guilty pleasure. The guitar solo pulled me in.

          • sugarplumfairy

            I dare you not to love this Lonely Boy..

            I hope the link works.. My ‘puter’s kaput and iPad not cooperating.. Couldn’t have anything to do with too much wine I’m pretty sure..

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_426RiwST8&sns=em

  • media_lush

    Wow, I just watched South Park’s “The Return of Chef” again and realised it’s actually their second scientology episode [that pretty much fell under the radar vis a vis the implication]…. more that that; the first time I saw it I thought they were taking the piss out of Isaac Hayes but after watching it again it’s almost a loving tribute to him…. and funnily enough it’s actually more accurate and appropriate now then when it first came out.

    …. proof? …. here’s the main bit:

    • media_lush

      “The Return of Chef” is the first episode of the tenth season of the American animated television series South Park, and the 140th episode overall. It first aired on Comedy Central in the United States on March 22, 2006.[2] It was advertised as the tenth season premiere.[3] The episode was the first after the departure of Isaac Hayes, who voiced Chef. Hayes, a Scientologist, left after a falling-out with the creators over their treatment of Scientology in the episode “Trapped in the Closet.”[3] Scientology has been accused of using brainwashing techniques, and the episode portrays Chef as having been brainwashed.[4][5]

      “There is a place in this world for satire, but there is a time when satire ends and intolerance and bigotry towards religious beliefs of others begins,” Hayes was quoted as saying in a press statement. The statement, however, did not directly mention Scientology. A response from South Park’s co-creator Matt Stone said that Hayes’ complaints stemmed from the show’s criticism of Scientology and that he “has no problem – and he’s cashed plenty of checks – with our show making fun of Christians, Muslims, Mormons, or Jews.” Stone adds, “[We] never heard a peep out of Isaac in any way until we did Scientology. He wants a different standard for religions other than his own, and to me, that is where intolerance and bigotry begins.”[6][7]

      During the episode, Chef is voiced by Hayes from splices of archived recordings.[8] This is purposely made obvious at points and noticeably dialed back when Chef is “cured”.

      …… A funeral for Chef is held, during which Kyle explains that although he did not agree with Chef’s recent decision, he is not angry with Chef for leaving South Park, and that the “fruity little club” Chef joined is to blame for his recent behavior. The description of “fruity little club” is a tongue-in-cheek reference to Scientologists who, like Hayes, took offense to the satirical episode that drove Hayes from the cast. Kyle finishes by wishing the congregation to remember him as the singing, jolly man he once was. The scene then cuts to the SAC members resurrecting Chef as Darth Chef (parodying the ending of Revenge of the Sith), now fully embracing the club’s ethics.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Return_of_Chef

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    So…back to Claire’s TRs and the whole lower bridge.

    I am celebrating all by myself after reading Dan Koon’s published PDF on what the secret Super Power Rundowns are all about. While I guinea pig’d the Cause Resurgence (running around a pole until …), I’ve always been curious what the hell was on those other rundowns. Learning today that it’s just more of the same stupid, boring, repeititious, lower bridge stuff designed to see how much of a potential Ronbot you are has me delirious. The current scientologists who’ve been around forever and donating kazillions are going to lose what’s left of their minds when they learn this is IT!

    Reminds me of…

    http://youtu.be/4NpJcWba3Twhttp://youtu.be/4NpJcWba3Tw

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Who?

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      But if that stuff Dan wrote is true, what’s with all of the scifi contraptions? I’m mean, there’s GOT to be some other new woowoo added in, right?

      Edit” Youtube linky no good for me….

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Dan writes about that. Original staff just used what was available for perceptics. I don’t know Who came up with the concept of 1) space age contraptions and 2) marketing it for public consumption. It’s allmost like it was a marketing fraudulent trap of a scam!

        I sure as hell hope the Garcia’s lawyers got a hold of his write up.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          I think a Lot of that was alluded to in Blown for good..which I have read twice…which scares me somewhat.

          By the way,the new Neil Gaiman book is really beautiful so far.
          And I did highlight a couple of “seriously scion things”.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            This damn blog has kept me from starting Chapter 2 for a week now!

            Also, I was there there and Did the Running program. Lived it.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              LOL…I know…I keep making deals with myself….but then I lose!!
              Fuckalready!

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          Please point me to the PDF. Thx.

        • Espiando

          Does anyone else hope that the original pilot for the smell perceptic exercise used dogshit?

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            count me in.

    • Captain Howdy

      Ha Ha, Too late now. You and BTN are so BUSTED. Goodnite everybody!.

  • BuryTheNuts2

    Ok, night time kiddies. sometimes this whole having a job thing really gets on my nerves~!

  • grundoon

    FLAG ORDER 1756, 25 JANUARY 1969: VOICE

    Most organizations have a particular skill or mannerism that identify people who belong to them. There is a particular “panache” or flair which marks Scientologists over the world. They have a better confront or approach to other people as well as other minutely undefineable characteristics.

    Voice control could very well be a cultivated characteristic of the Sea Org. This could be done well enough that it was actually a hallmark of the Sea Org member.

    Authority and presence is normally registered by the voice. Those who have good voice control give off an atmosphere of command and assurance….

    The most important part of voice control has nothing to do with loudness or softness. People are so concerned with their volume of voice they think that’s the clue to whether or not they are heard. Well it isn’t. It has nothing to do with it, is an additive and a complexity. When you really grasp voice control, the loudness or softness is used for emphasis or attitude, not to reach.

    The secret is learning to talk exactly at the point one is trying to reach…. It’s only that. You talk exactly at the point you want to be heard at. Near or far, to one or many. In a hall you talk at all the people including the back row. Remember, it has nothing to do with loud or soft…. You talk at where you want to be heard, exactly, near or far. You keep your syllables and words reasonably separate so echo or wind doesn’t blur them. That’s diction. Talking at the exact point or area, where you want to be heard is all the rest of it.

    Most people have entered in some additive like “He’s far away so I’ll shout” or “he’s near so I’ll talk quietly.” This is extraneous. You can sound like you’re shouting at a range of 3 feet or sound like you’re whispering (and be heard) at 250 feet. That’s HOW you want to sound. It has nothing to do with range or volume. It’s just talking at the exact point or area where you want to be heard.

    The most misunderstood and messed up drill we have is TR8. It’s even gotten to be called “shouting at an ash tray.” Never was so intended. It’s just being heard at the point one is talking at.

    If you take this same ash tray and just drill to be heard at it, moving it 2 feet, 10 feet, 200 feet away, back and forth, you’ll soon get the knack of being heard at what you’re talking to. Soon you won’t be putting any effort into it. And boy will you be heard.

    It’s worth cultivating as an organizational hallmark. It’s a characteristic worth having.

    L. RON HUBBARD
    COMMODORE

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Grundoon….you never fail to amaze!!! And educate!

      • Captain Howdy

        Hear, Hear!

    • Michael Leonard Tilse

      That’s part of the Sea Org Member Hat. There was also a course called “Keys to competence”.

      • Missionary Kid

        “Keys to competence.” DM never even came close to that one in his performance as COB, even as phony as it is.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        I’ve suggested for those who went into withdrawals after Tony ended the OOD’s Series to start an FO Series. Of course, there are so many more of those, you’d have to pick and choose.

        This one, Grundoon, is one I personally would like to burn and then bury the ashes in some graveyard of radioactive slime. “And boy will you be heard.” This was the beginning of what I like to call “Screaming Tech”. It filtered down from sea org to orgs and all the way down to WISE or unWise businesses run by smarmy “management” that paid themselves top dollar while Screaming at their low life, underpaid staff when applying Hubbard management “tech” somehow didn’t make them fabulously rich overnight.

        Scream Tech.

        It is as much a part of the scientology experience as having your wallet lifted.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Um, he’s talking about “projection.” I learned that in high school drama. We didn’t have body mics back then, so we had to learn to project, rather than shout, to both deliver lines with all their shades of meaning, and to be heard in the back row of a theater.

  • grundoon

    HCO BULLETIN OF 7 MAY 1968: UPPER INDOC TRS

    Number: TR 8
    Name: Tone 40 on an Object….

    Purpose: To make student clearly achieve Tone 40 commands. To clarify intentions as different from words. To start student on road to handling objects and people with postulates. To obtain obedience not wholly based on spoken commands.

    Training Stress: TR 8 is begun with student holding the ashtray which he manually makes execute the commands he gives…. Have him command the object in the loudest possible voice he can muster. This is called shouting. The coach’s patter would run something like this: “Locate the space.” “Locate the object in that space.” “Command it as loudly as you can.” “Acknowledge it as loudly as you can.” “Command it as loudly as you can.” “Acknowledge it as loudly as you can.” That would complete two cycles of action. When shouting is completed, then have student use a normal tone of voice with a lot of coach attention on the student getting the intention into the object. Next, have the student do the drill while using the wrong commands—i.e., saying “Thank you” while placing in the object the intention to stand up, etc. Next, have the student do the drill silently, putting the intention in the object without even thinking the words of the command or the acknowledgement. The final step in this would be for the coach to say “Start” then anything else he said would not be valid on student with the exception of “Flunk” and “That’s it”. Here, the coach would attempt to distract the student, using any verbal means he could to knock the student off Tone 40. Physical heckling would not be greater than tapping the student on the knee or shoulder to get his attention. When the student can maintain Tone 40 and get a clean intention on the object for each command and for each acknowledgement, the drill is flat.

    There are other ways to help the student along. The coach occasionally asks, “Are you willing to be in that ashtray?” When the student has answered, then, “Are you willing for a thought to be there instead of you?” Then continue the drill. The answers are not so important on these two questions as is the fact that the idea is brought to the student’s attention. Another question the coach asks the student is, “Did you really expect that ashtray to comply with that command?”

    There is a drill which will greatly increase the student’s reality on what an intention is. The coach can use this drill three or four times during the training on Tone 40 on an Object. As follows: “Think the thought—I am a wild flower.” “Good.” “Think the thought that you are sitting in a chair.” “Good.” “Imagine that thought being in that ashtray.” “Good.” “Imagine that ashtray containing that thought in its substance.” “Good.” “Now get the ashtray thinking that it is an ashtray.” “Good.” “Get the ashtray intending to go on being an ashtray.” “Good.” “Get the ashtray intending to remain where it is.” “Good.” “Have the ashtray end that cycle.” “Good.” “Put in the ashtray the intention to remain where it is.” “Good.” This also helps the student get a reality on placing an intention in something apart from himself.

    Stress that an intention has nothing to do with words and has nothing to do with the voice, nor is it dependent upon thinking certain words. An intention must be clear and have no counter-intention in it. This training drill, Tone 40 on an Object, usually takes the most time of any drill in Upper Indoc, and time on it is well spent. Objects to be used are ashtrays, preferably heavy, coloured glass ashtrays.

    History: Developed by L. Ron Hubbard in Washington, D.C., in 1957 to train students to use intention when auditing.

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      I can really see why actors eat this shit up! Thanks for these.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      I Am the Walrus!
      Goodnight now.

      • Robert Eckert

        Goo goo koochoob!

        Thank you!

    • Anonymookme

      Good Lord! All this is just loopy drivel.
      It’s apparent LRLoon never got past his “penny a word” paydays.
      Never have so many useless words been crammed onto so many useless pages. All the words and all pages say and signify nothing.
      And the suckers lap it up. Amazing and cray cray.

    • Remy

      Mr. Hubbard, I lost you at the number 40. Such a weird number to signify “Perfection.”

  • grundoon

    HCO BULLETIN OF 22 APRIL 1980R: ASSESSMENT DRILLS

    … Correct voice pitches had everything to do with assessment. I have just developed drills which… have great value to people who do surveys, to Examiners and to Ethics Officers…. for those whose duties involve asking and getting answers to questions, as in surveying and doing interviews…. The following drills have the letter Q after them to mean that they are used for Questions….

    NUMBER: TR 8-Q
    NAME: Tone 40 Assessment.
    POSITION: Same as TR 8 where the student is in one chair facing another chair on which sits an ashtray, the coach sitting beside the student in a third chair. A square, four-cornered ashtray is used.

    PURPOSE: To deliver the THOUGHT of a question into an exact position, wide or narrow at decision, that is a question, with or without words.

    COMMANDS: For the first part of the drill: “Are you an ashtray?” “Are you made of glass?” “Are you sitting there?” Second part of drill: Same questions silently. Third part of drill: “Are you a corner?” to each corner of the ashtray, verbal and with intention at the same time. Fourth part of drill: Any applicable question, verbal and with intention at the same time, put broad and narrow at choice into the ashtray, exact parts of it and the surroundings.

    TRAINING STRESS: The coach uses usual TR coaching commands. There are four stages to the drill. The first stage is to land a verbal command into the ashtray. The second stage is to put the question with full intention silently into the ashtray. The third stage is to put verbal command and silent intention at the same time into exact parts of the ashtray. The fourth stage is to put any applicable question both verbally and with intention into any narrow or any broad portion of the ashtray or its surrounds at choice and at will. The coach puts out his finger or his hands to indicate various spots and locations in space around the ashtray. The coach also makes the student put thoughts precisely into areas, some narrow and some wide, above the student’s head and behind his back by putting his finger or hands in those places. (Coach doesn’t touch student’s body.) At the conclusion of the whole drill imagine the ashtray saying, “Yes, yes, yes, yes” in an avalanche of “yeses” to balance the flow (in actual life, people, pcs and meters do respond and return the flow).

    END PHENOMENA: The ability to land a question with full intention into an exact target area, broad or narrow, at will and effectively, whether verbally or silently.

    HISTORY: Developed by L. Ron Hubbard in April 1980 as an extension of all earlier work on intention and Tone 40, as now applied to questions and assessments.

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    599 comments?!?

    Oh… now 600.

    • Robert Eckert

      I have 484

  • PreferToBeAnon2

    damn! missed the chat tonight. ok, rollin’ over and hittin’ the sack.

  • Andrew Robertson

    I can’t wait until July 15 to see Mike Ferris giving the facts about the world’s fastest growing religion on ‘Face TV’.

    It certainly won’t be their numbers in New Zealand, (population as at Wednesday, 10 Jul 2013 at 05:50:26 pm, 4,470,418), with fewer than 200 Scientologists, slightly down from their massive 387 membership of yesteryear.

    Though Mike will claim over 20,000 dedicated acolytes. But he’s completed TR-L, i.e. Training Routine-Lying: “trains the student to outflow false data effectively”, i.e., to lie convincingly.

    INTELLIGENCE SPECIALIST TRAINING ROUTINE – TR L

    Purpose: To train the student to give a false statement with good TR-1. To
    train the student to outflow false data effectively.

    Position: Same as TR-1.

    Commands: Part 1 “Tell me a lie”. Command given by coach. Part 2 interview
    type 2 WC by coach.

    Training Stress: In Part 1 coach gives command, student originates a
    falsehood. Coach flunks for out TR 1 or TR 0. In Part 2 coach asks
    questions of the student on his background or a subject. Student gives
    untrue data of a plausible sort that the student backs up with further
    explanatory data upon the coach asking further questions. The coach flunks
    for out TR 0 and TR 1, and for student fumbling on question answers. The
    student should be coached on a gradient until he/she can lie facilely.

    Short example:

    Coach: Where do you come from?

    Student: I come from the Housewives Committee on Drug Abuse.

    Coach: But you said earlier that you were single.

    Student: Well, actually I was married but am divorced. I have 2 kids in the
    suburbs where I am a housewife, in fact I’m a member of the P.T.A.

    Coach: What town is it that you live in?

    Student: West Brighton.

    Coach: But there is no public school in West Brighton.

    etc.

    Andrew

    • Bella Legosi

      I had an acting teacher in Alaska that had us do something very similar to this TR-L. We were told to go up on stage, pick an item out of a box (blind), and then think up a convincing lie as to what it was or its purpose and then run with it.

    • aquaclara

      Frighteningly revealing….
      I can’t believe that this is an actual class. But then, I learn something new here every day.
      Thanks.

  • Valkov

    I find it odd that it doesn’t seem to occur to anyone, critic, ex-scientologist, or current Kool-aide drinker, that the whole purpose of the ashtray drill is to make the person realize that yelling at the ashtray won’t make it “stand up”. For one thing, an ashtray doesn’t have any legs…. that “intention ” is a mental action the person forms within himself, and that if s/he wants to see its fruition in reality, he needs to take physical action in reality.

    • PreferToBeAnon2

      Thanks for that comment. So, then, how does one pass the drill?

      • Valkov

        That’s a damn good question. The short answer is, I don’t know because I never did it long enough to get the “full EP” I was public, and back in the day they used to “cycle” people through the TRs. We didn’t do them endlessly until we got the equivalent of the “Big O” of sex. But I’m sure there is an “EP” (End Phenomenon” associated with that drill, just as there are for other drills. My guess is, there are HCOBs about it, but I haven’t read them, except for the one about the EP of OT-TR0. And I believe each person may express that differently in words, as it is a subjective thing.

        I would guess it has something to do with reaching a point at which you know you can hold a focused Intention inspite of anything that happens in the “real world”( the physical universe) and understand the difference between your intention and the physical universe, kind like what Marty was quoted as saying. I mean, most everyone has had experiences of “wordless communication”, not just in playing basketball. How, where, does that take place? What is it? And for example, I think many animals are very good at sensing a person’s intention.

        What I posted actually came to me years after I had done the drill a few times. Anyone who thinks the ashtray will somehow rise on it’s own as a result of his intention is confused and hasn’t done the drill long enough, in my opinion. Alternatively, I don’t know what happens when a person is made to do the drill for too long,past the point of achieving its “EP”. But I speculate the result of that would be bad.

    • Chocolate Velvet

      That is certainly the ostensible purpose of this particular drill. That is obvious, to me anyway. It is also obvious that there are much easier and more effective ways to learn that “sound waves do not carry out intention” or whatever the quote was. In other words — talk is cheap, easier said than done, walk your talk, wish in one hand shit in the other, etc etc.

      However, the true purpose of this and every drill is to install and reinforce LRH’s control mechanisms in the student. That’s why such convoluted, ineffective, apparently ridiculous methods are used, and repetition, repetition, repetition is the rule. One needs a lot of practice to get good at suspending critical thinking, and substituting KSW truisms and so on in its place.

  • Lilaeth

    I shout at the PC all the time – I now feel less stupid about it!

  • Lilaeth

    I shout at the PC a lot – don’t feel quite so stupid about it now!

  • Dave Roberts

    Someone should tell the IRS that Scientology is NOT a religion. Who among the participants is actually searching for God?

    Dave