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Former Scientology Enforcer Marty Rathbun Examines His Past as the Church’s “Warrior”

Full warrior mode, circa 1990

Full warrior mode, circa 1990

Last week, Mark “Marty” Rathbun sent us a review copy of his newest book, Memoirs of a Scientology Warrior. We’re grateful that he did. After all, we weren’t gentle with our review of his first book, a sort of manifesto for the Independent Scientology community that he’s such a big part of.

Rathbun was once the second-highest ranking official in the Church of Scientology and oversaw its bruising legal strategies for many years. He had a reputation for being the “enforcer” for a church not known for turning the other cheek.

But after his defection in 2004 and then resurfacing in 2009, Rathbun quickly became, in our estimation, the single greatest threat to the ongoing existence of the church.

Scientology leader David Miscavige appeared to agree, judging by the sheer effort expended to harass Rathbun in the four years since he showed up in the landmark 2009 Tampa Bay Times series, “The Truth Rundown,” and since Rathbun started his blog, “Moving On Up a Little Higher,” which began dishing dirt about Miscavige’s management of the church.

Rathbun’s blog exploited growing dissatisfaction in Scientology’s ranks: Many longtime church members were still loyal to founder L. Ron Hubbard’s therapy “technology,” but they were increasingly fed up with the way Miscavige has led the church since Hubbard’s death in 1986. In recent years, the church has largely abandoned Hubbard’s notion about spiritual advancement and training “auditors” and is instead obsessed with raising money for things like unneeded new buildings, even as membership dwindles.

A steady stream of high-profile defectors over the last few years proved that this was a real schism tearing the church apart. And one of the key figures exacerbating that split has been Rathbun and his writings.

But Rathbun is in a tricky position.

MartyCoverOn the one hand, he’s provided crucial information about the way Miscavige runs Scientology, bringing to the world news about the church’s bizarre office-prison for executives — “The Hole” — at its International Base in California. Rathbun, and others, have painted a frightening picture of abuse and extortion at the highest levels of Scientology, as well as salacious details about celebrities like Tom Cruise.

But Rathbun’s leadership as Scientology’s enforcer goes back much earlier than the 2004 establishment of “The Hole,” or his auditing of Tom Cruise as the actor was coming back into the fold in the early 2000s.

Rathbun oversaw a brutal “dirty tricks” operation for more than 20 years, and for some of that time he was carrying out the orders of L. Ron Hubbard.

Rathbun’s many critics have asked, when is Rathbun going to come clean about what he did in the name of Hubbard to the perceived enemies of this church?

For that reason, we were salivating to get our hands on this book, in which Rathbun explains his origins and then takes us behind the scenes during the crucial years of 1981 to 1986, when he and others worked hard to provide an “All Clear” for Scientology’s founder.

Hubbard had gone into total seclusion in 1980 as his wife was being prosecuted for her part in Operation Snow White — Scientology’s astounding infiltration of government offices around the world between 1973 and 1977, for which Hubbard himself was named an unindicted co-conspirator.

Concerned that he was going to be prosecuted by the Department of Justice or the IRS, or dragged into one of numerous lawsuits facing the church, Hubbard spent his last years reorganizing Scientology to insulate himself from legal attack, and hiding so that he could not be found by process servers.

But hiding was a pain in the ass. So Hubbard, through Miscavige, asked Rathbun and a small number of other executives to find a way to end every last legal threat through one means or another so an “All Clear” signal could be sent and Hubbard could then re-emerge from seclusion.

But first, to explain how he was put into that extraordinary situation, Rathbun sets out to describe what put him on the path to becoming Hubbard’s unflinching “warrior.”

He does this by trying to convince us that he was chosen for his role before birth.

 

————–

 
In an anecdote that seems torn right from the pages of Hubbard’s 1950 ur-text, Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health, Rathbun’s life story begins with a prenatal memory — seeing his pregnant mother subjected to electro-shock therapy while he was growing inside her. He tells us that an aunt confirmed to him many years later that his vision was true.

Whether or not Rathbun exteriorized from his mother’s womb in order to witness her treatment, there’s no denying that the Marin County youngster was born into a very troubled family. His mother later jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge, and his two older brothers each suffered from schizophrenia: the oldest, Scott, is institutionalized to this day.

The middle brother, Bruce, was committed to the Oregon institution where One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest was filmed, and the young Mark Rathbun became determined to learn something about mental health and make a difference in his brother’s life. Like Randle P. McMurphy in Ken Kesey’s book, Rathbun used basketball to improve, at least briefly, the lives of Bruce and the other inmates at Dammasch State Hospital.

 
Cuckoo_BBall

 
Basketball had already proved a great source of inspiration in his own life, Rathbun explains. He’d played as a kid on a public court after his family moved to Laguna Beach in Southern California, and then he’d made the high school team. A particularly dramatic game-winning shot turned into a spiritual landmark for the high school junior: Rathbun says he went exterior from himself as he watched the ball go through the hoop.

A spiritual seeker with a good jump shot. A concerned brother trying to save Bruce from the oblivion of a mental hospital. Rathbun was almost perfectly set up to be susceptible to Scientology’s siren call when he first encountered it in Portland in 1977.

Once again, Rathbun proves that his physical body can hardly contain his restless spirit when he goes exterior while doing Training Routine 0, the hours-long staring contests that all Scientologists start out with.

In other words, Rathbun seemed born for Scientology, and very quickly he concludes that it is something he can use to heal Bruce. But after he manages to get his brother out of Dammasch, the Portland Scientology mission won’t allow Bruce to be audited: His mental health history makes him too much of a risk.

Rathbun takes it as a serious blow, but then he’s recruited into Scientology’s elite inner corps, the Sea Organization, and never looks back. (Bruce later was killed after starting a bar fight.)

Marty absorbs the Sea Org’s fanatical dedication, signing its billion-year contract and moving to Los Angeles, where the Cedars of Lebanon Hospital is being renovated for Scientology’s new administrative headquarters. There’s a sense of urgency because that summer, 1977, the FBI had raided Scientology in LA and Washington DC over the Snow White infiltrations.

It’s in LA, still wet behind the ears, that Rathbun begins to make a name for himself with a gruesome incident that Lawrence Wright described recently in his book Going Clear. Marty is told that Diane Colletto, a young woman who runs the Publications division, is concerned that her husband, John, has made threats against her after he was assigned to Scientology’s prison detail — the RPF — and then walked away.

Sure enough, just minutes after Rathbun meets Diane and then gets into her car at about 11 pm to accompany her home, John Colletto shows up, rams them with his car, and then begins a terrifying confrontation that will leave Diane Colletto shot dead and Rathbun covered with her blood.

A few more details emerge here than were in Wright’s book, but the effect is the same: Rathbun suddenly finds himself a heroic figure in the Sea Org, even though he felt awful that he’d been unable to prevent Diane’s death. (John Colletto was found dead of a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head a couple of days later.)

Hubbard hears about the young Sea Org worker who took on a gunman while unarmed, and soon Marty finds himself taken “Over the Rainbow” — transferred to Hubbard’s secret location in La Quinta, California known as “Rifle.” The closest Rathbun gets to actually meeting the Old Man is sitting in a beach chair on Hubbard’s lawn — he can hear Hubbard’s voice, but never meets him in the flesh.

Rathbun’s loyalty pays off, however. He happened to be coming up just as Scientology was in the grips of a major internal crisis. Eleven of the leaders of Scientology’s intelligence operation, the Guardian’s Office, are going to be prosecuted for the Snow White infiltration of government offices. One of them is Mary Sue Hubbard, the third wife of the Commodore and ultimate leader of the GO itself. There’s little doubt today that Hubbard himself ordered the Snow White Operation and was fully briefed on its particulars as it was going on. But at the time, church members were being told that the GO had been a rogue unit that got out of hand. In order for that story to stick, Mary Sue had to take the fall.

Making that happen was an up and coming young member of Hubbard’s personal guard, a kid from South Philly named David Miscavige. It was Miscavige who delivered the news to Mary Sue that she was being sacrificed in order to keep Hubbard safe.

But there were many other legal matters pressing on Hubbard, which led him to decide, in 1980, that he had to disappear. And by then Rathbun was so trusted, he was soon enlisted by Miscavige to work on the “All Clear” program.

 

————–

 

One of the biggest problems facing Scientology at the time was a Boston attorney named Michael Flynn, who would file dozens of lawsuits against the church over several years. Some of them were the most potentially damaging legal challenges Scientology ever faced.

As a result, Flynn became the focus of one of the most ferocious “Fair Game” campaigns in Scientology history. Here’s a description of it from a 1983 Boston Globe article

Affidavits by four church defectors…allege that church members have conducted numerous acts of harassment against Flynn for the ultimate purpose of undermining him and his cases. Included in the affidavits were assertions that, in addition to rifling his trash, church members had:

— Contacted some of Flynn’s non-church clients and told them that he had cheated them out of money.

— Telephoned the Internal Revenue Service with false financial information about him, hoping to spur a tax probe.

— Monitored Flynn’s activities closely by watching and photographing visitors to his office and by calling his bank regularly to determine how much money he had deposited in his account, the number of which had been found in his trash.

— Tried repeatedly to plant operatives in his office.

As a result of those extraordinary efforts of surveillance, the church filed multiple bar complaints against Flynn, trying to get him disbarred as the best way to undermine his lawsuits. One of those attempts involved some documents that Flynn said were stolen from his office. Continues the Boston Globe article…

One of the more serious complaints concerned Flynn’s formation of a company called Flynn Associates Management Corp. (FAMCO). [Church attorney Henry] Silverglate alleged in an August 1981 bar complaint that Flynn began FAMCO to raise money through the sale of its stock to finance his Scientology litigation.

Flynn said in an interview that he chartered the company as a proposed computer venture with one of his brothers. When the venture did not materialize, Flynn said, another brother, then an investigator for his law firm, proposed reviving the firm so he could sell his investigative services on Scientology to the law firm. Flynn said he rejected the proposal in June 1981 because it would have given “the appearance of impropriety.” He said no stock in FAMCO was ever issued or sold.

In other words, this was a classic church harassment campaign — Flynn’s trash (or his burgled office) yielded documents that had a whiff of impropriety to them. But even though nothing was ever done with the documents, Scientology combined and conflated them in order to try to get Flynn disbarred rather than take on his lawsuits on their merits.

As any reader can see, there is plenty here for Marty Rathbun to illuminate all these years later. As the guy who oversaw Scientology’s dirty-tricks private eyes like disgraced Los Angeles cop Eugene Ingram, Rathbun would have been privy to every strategy, every maneuver.

 

Michael Flynn testifies about Scientology at hearings in Clearwater, Florida in 1982

Michael Flynn testifies about Scientology at hearings in Clearwater, Florida in 1982

 
Rathbun could tell us all about the trash diving at Flynn’s office, who carried it out, and what was discovered. He could regale us with tales of the PIs and Sea Org officials sifting Flynn’s garbage and talking about destroying the man. Or about the strategy sessions where the bar complaints were discussed. Or the phone calls that were planned to Flynn’s friends and colleagues that were intended to destroy him.

In a book like this, we should get an inside view of how the church uses private investigators to utterly ruin someone who dares to stand up to Scientology.

Instead, Memoirs of a Scientology Warrior tells us that FAMCO was not only real, it was the biggest enemy the church faced…

Flynn had set up a corporation, Flynn Associates Management Corporation (FAMCO) for the purposes of soliciting and filing lawsuits against Scientology and Hubbard across the country.

FAMCO was attempting to raise funds by selling shares in the litigation scheme. FAMCO outlined a strategy of filing “turn-key” (or “cookie cutter”) lawsuits in numerous, inconvenient venues, seeking to bury the Church of Scientology in litigation. FAMCO projected filing more than a thousand lawsuits.

In 1981, this very may well have been the fear that Miscavige, Rathbun, and their many attorneys held about Flynn after obtaining his documents. But in 2013, we can say that none of that came to happen. FAMCO did not, in fact, exist except for some abortive papers that Rathbun’s PIs pulled out of Flynn’s trash. And a thousand lawsuits were not filed by Flynn.

On the one hand, Rathbun does historians a great service in this book by explaining the mentality of the men who were working so hard to protect Hubbard from legal attacks.

That’s useful to a point, but more than 30 years later, what Rathbun doesn’t tell us is what we really want to know: There’s not a single word about going through Flynn’s trash, or about the other harassment that he went through.

Rathbun doesn’t even seem to have read the reporting that was done to counter the church’s point of view at the time, because he never brings it up.

In other words, the book gives us an extended look at what it must have been like to be Marty Rathbun in the 1980s — but as if written by Marty Rathbun in the 1980s.

 

————–

 

Here and there, the book does exhibit moments of clarity that suggest Rathbun may have actually begun to have second thoughts about his work as Hubbard’s “warrior.”

When Canadian officials raided the church in Toronto in 1983, Rathbun was part of a mission that destroyed evidence to keep it from falling into government hands.

At the time, Rathbun today admits, he chased away thoughts that what he was doing was wrong.

But pages later, he writes about the most elaborate scheme to bury Flynn — by trying to connect him to a plot by some fraudsters who attempted to write themselves a $2 million dollar check on L. Ron Hubbard’s account at the Bank of New England. Desperate to prove that Flynn had some connection to it, church officials paid off a crook in an Italian jail, hobnobbed with gangsters in Boston, and hired the thug Ingram.

Thirty years later, Rathbun wants us to believe that Ingram was kicked out of the LAPD for “trumped up charges” — even though Ingram would spend decades engaged in reprehensible behavior for the church, including being accused of impersonating police officers to strongarm people in church operations.

Again, it’s valuable to learn what Rathbun thought of Ingram and other people he worked with at the time. But after thirty years, Rathbun hasn’t really come to grips with the acts that a church was willing to take part in.

Even today, for Rathbun, Ingram is a great guy, and it’s Flynn who was the crook.

We don’t want to give the impression, however, that there’s not a lot that’s very useful in this lengthy book. Rathbun has repeatedly proved that he’s willing to anger his fellow “independents” by taking hard looks at Hubbard.

In 1983, for example, Rathbun tells us that Hubbard blamed his wife Mary Sue for the cancellation of Scientology’s toxic policy of “disconnection.” So that year, Hubbard reinstated it with a vengeance. Now, if a member continued to associate with someone who had been “declared a suppressive person,” he or she risked excommunication as well.

“These policies,” Rathbun says, “laid the foundation for Scientology’s subsequent degeneration into an insular cult.”

(We don’t imagine that line is going to go over very well with Rathbun’s critics.)

At least, in this case, Rathbun puts that decision about disconnection on Hubbard and not on Miscavige. And things would get even tougher for Rathbun’s unwavering loyalty to the old man. Over the period of 1981 to 1984, Rathbun explains, Hubbard was increasingly laying the world’s problems on psychiatry. Hubbard even said that the thetans — immortal souls — of psychiatrists were a different breed than the rest of humanity.

But Rathbun knew enough history to understand that psychiatry had only emerged in the late 19th century. Thetans were supposedly trillions of years old — what had these special psych thetans been doing for all that time?

The answer to that question was one of the most interesting things we found in this book. Rathbun says that Miscavige shared with him a dispatch from Hubbard that had been labeled “secret”…

In the dispatch, Hubbard matter-of-factly detailed how psychs are a special breed of being. He said they were raised and trained on a planet called Farsec. They were sent to Earth in order to keep its population under control, ignorant, obedient and slave-like. Earth is a prison planet, he said, and most of its inhabitants were pirates, rebels or artists, millions of years before being deposited here by a regressive inter-galactic government. The psychs were also assigned to see that no mental or spiritual technology arose that might expose the nefarious plot. They had always been with us on Earth. Before the advent of psychiatry, they had been priests and shamans…

Rathbun admits that it was difficult for him to reconcile that kind of writing with Hubbard’s other bulletins, which he considered “lucid, rational, even brilliant.”

He was told that if the Farsec material made no sense to him now, it would later on, after he’d received more Scientology processing.

“I took refuge in the belief that it would all make sense further on up the road. I became a true believer, a religious crusader,” he writes.

Thus insulated from common sense, Rathbun says he became capable of doing almost anything for Hubbard.

On several occasions we engaged in acts which, if not criminally prosecutable, certainly would subject us to civil liability if discovered. For one, Miscavige instructed me to never allow damning evidence to be produced in civil litigation discovery. On several occasions during the early eighties, we conducted massive shredding parties after catching wind that there might be a DOJ or IRS raid (much like the Canadian mop-up described in the previous chapter). When I balked at the idea of destroying evidence, Miscavige accused me of being a GO-influenced idiot. “Don’t you get it that LRH was pissed that the GO got caught?” he asked impatiently. “I was there when the raid went down and he was first informed.” He described the scene in some detail — Ron in his bathrobe at the Rifle house in La Quinta, being told of the simultaneous raids on church premises in Los Angeles and Washington D.C. in July, 1977. “He was in shock — shock that they were so stupid as to get caught. Read his dispatches, damn it. It is clear.”

…After that I never thought twice about destroying evidence. I had no problem with running intelligence agents in on enemies, provided they did nothing that could get us into trouble. L. Ron Hubbard was the source of any power we might have. He was the only power worthy of defense, since his power was exclusively directed at clearing the planet of war, insanity and criminality.

Therefore, all future warlike, insane and criminal behavior on our part was justified, in that it was the only way to end warlike, insane and criminal behavior on planet Earth. It was cognitive dissonance supreme.

But only a few pages after describing Hubbard’s bizarre words about “Farsec,” and the mentality in him it produced, Rathbun is back to his old 1980s self, saying that “Flynn [had]…no compunction about inventing facts.”

 

————–

 

Rathbun makes that statement in regards to one of Scientology’s all time legal defeats, the 1984 Gerry Armstrong trial. Armstrong had worked as Hubbard’s archivist for a future authorized biography, and had become concerned when he realized that Hubbard’s private papers contradicted what Hubbard and the church had said publicly about him. If those papers got out, Hubbard’s credibility would be ruined. But when Armstrong brought that up with his superiors, he was punished. He left the Sea Org, and took some of the documents with him as protection. The church sued him, wanting the documents back.

The problem with the trial, Rathbun tells us, is that Flynn was a liar and manipulator, the judge was biased, and that Scientologists were “too honest.”

Again, that may have been the mentality of Scientology’s top officials at the time, but in retrospect, Armstrong’s documents proved without a doubt that what he was saying about Hubbard was true.

But even today, Rathbun seems to tell us (in an extremely murky passage) that the portrait of Hubbard in Armstrong’s documents — bigamist, black magic participant, not a war hero — is still a pack of lies.

The case resulted in a huge defeat for the church as Judge Paul Breckenridge found for Armstrong, and many of the documents were put into the public record. But Rathbun congratulates himself for filing 42 separate appeals and other delaying tactics so the documents remained under seal for the duration of Hubbard’s life — which lasted another two years.

Even though our scorched-earth litigation efforts to keep damning evidence out of the hands of enemies no doubt worsened the courts’ already dim view of Scientology’s credibility, it might well have saved L. Ron Hubbard from spending his final days in jail, alongside his last chosen close associates, Pat Broeker and David Miscavige.

Rathbun then explains how the church got back at Armstrong soon enough with its Griffith Park double-agent videotape operation, which encouraged Armstrong to unwittingly plot on camera with church members he was told were going to launch a palace coup against Miscavige. (One of them was a young Mike Rinder, who would go on to become the church’s chief spokesman and now one of the most prominent independent Scientologists.)

We learn that Miscavige weeded out wimpy attorneys based on which ones were comfortable with this kind of cloak-and-dagger work by the church.

But Miscavige loved it, and the attorneys who encouraged it — people like Gerald Feffer and Earle Cooley — soon rose to the top of the church’s litigation team.

Again, we gain access to the heady atmosphere as the legal machine deals with such legendary church battles as the Julie Christofferson-Titchbourne trial in Portland and the Lawrence Wollersheim case in Los Angeles.

But in the end, the team fails to give Hubbard the “All Clear” that he was hoping for. There are still plenty of legal troubles facing the church as Hubbard dies on January 24, 1986.

Rathbun can still remember his tears as Miscavige told him that Hubbard had “dropped his body.”

 

————–

 

The book continues on a little after the Commodore’s death. Hubbard had appeared to annoint his final caretakers — Pat and Annie Broeker — to be his successors after naming them to the new post of “Loyal Officers.” But Rathbun says that Pat Broeker forced this document on Hubbard to sign, and soon enough Miscavige muscled Pat out of the way to become Scientology’s ultimate leader.

The Broekers had cared for Hubbard at a ranch near Creston, California. Also working at the ranch was Steve “Sarge” Pfauth. In Going Clear, Lawrence Wright says that Pfauth told him that at the end of his life, Hubbard wanted Pfauth to build an electrified e-meter that would deliver a fatal shock to him.

Rathbun produces a fascinating conversation he recently had with Pfauth with more detail about the machine.

Hubbard wasn’t kidding, and Annie pressured Pfauth to build the machine or he’d have an outsider do it, Pfauth told Rathbun. So Sarge built a contraption with 12-volt batteries so it would shock Hubbard but not kill him. And Hubbard actually used it, Pfauth told Rathbun.

Pfauth said that Hubbard hoped the shock would not only help him “drop his body” but also kill the “body thetans” that were plaguing him. (Upper-level Scientologists pay huge amounts — up to a thousand dollars an hour — to have these invisible alien souls removed from them.) Pfauth also described a confused Hubbard wandering around the ranch in a nightgown, talking about psychs putting rose perfume in shampoo in order to control people.

Pfauth assured Rathbun that no one killed Hubbard (he died of natural causes a couple of months after testing the electrified e-meter), that Hubbard knew it was the end and welcomed death, and that Pfauth had personally seen Hubbard sign a will only two days before he died — but Pfauth said Hubbard was in no shape to be signing it.

After Hubbard’s death, many of Scientology’s legal challenges lost steam, Rathbun writes. Seven years later, the IRS caved and gave the church tax-exempt status, for example.

Flynn was also convinced to end his cases with a global settlement. Years earlier, Rathbun notes, the church had a chance to settle with Flynn for $1.6 million. Instead, the church spent $100 million fighting his lawsuits, only to settle later for $2.6 million.

Rathbun at least recognizes what a colossal waste of time and money that was.

But he says that he’s ending his memoir at 1986 because, he tells us, “what happened after L. Ron Hubbard is of little importance.”

Apparently, that means we’re not going to learn about the operations of the 1990s, including the raids on the homes of people like Dennis Erlich and Arnie Lerma, the infamous “Bloody Butt” episode, the legal fight over the death of Lisa McPherson, or the turning of Bob Minton.

But that only confirms that this book is not a confessional. In fact, it’s the opposite. Rathbun apparently sees himself as something of a legendary character, from his electro-shock prenatal memory, to his charmed life on the basketball court, to his rise in the Sea Org, to his brilliant fights in the courtroom. It’s David Miscavige, ultimately, who let him down, not Hubbard. But even today, Rathbun is still a “Scientology Warrior,” even if he does anger some of his fellow independent Scientologists by criticizing some of Hubbard’s policies and treating some of Hubbard’s space opera as “metaphor.”

As in his first book, Rathbun once again feels compelled to tell us that the genius of L. Ron Hubbard’s notion of a “clear” is a human being who simply knows his or her “basic personality.”

Rathbun is supremely satisfied that this is what Hubbard gave him all along. Rathbun knows himself, and that is enough.

But after getting through this book’s 326 pages, it’s even clearer to us that Marty Rathbun hasn’t even begun to understand himself or what he did in the name of Scientology.

Perhaps we’ll have to wait for his fourth book.

 
——————–

Garcia Lawsuit Update

We understand that there have been some issues with the website for some readers over the past couple of days. We know that our host had some database issues, and we’re trying to make sure everything’s working smoothly.

In case you missed any of the updates we’ve made lately, here’s a short list of what was added in the last 24 hours…

Yesterday, our latest installment of “Up the Bridge with Claire Headley” — a piece on L. Ron Hubbard’s “Tone Scale” — went up late at about 1 pm.

Last night, we posted the response from Luis Garcia to Scientology’s attempt to get his attorneys disqualified in his federal fraud lawsuit against the church. We’ve now added attorney Robert Johnson’s affidavit to the post.

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on May 29, 2013 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

If you’d like to help support The Underground Bunker, please e-mail our webmaster Scott Pilutik at BunkerFund@tonyortega.org

 

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  • L. Wrong Hubturd

    In case I’m not getting the gist of the comments, is anyone still on the fence about Sharty Rugburn?

    • aquaclara

      Nope.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Downy is back. I saw yours pop up in real time. Whew, what a rush. How’s the finger downy? Tired yet? Kind of like you cause they never let you get a good nights rest?

    • http://www.facebook.com/kim.obrien.775 Kim O’Brien

      i think it’s the treatment of Derek that was the last straw for those who needed one. If you can not show compassion and love for kids like Derek …you truly are lost …and a total asshole . ” Grow up and buy the book ” …so very zen and loving huh ?

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        I hate to call names……who am I kidding, of course I like to call names.

      • Missionary Kid

        Exactly.

    • EnthralledObserver

      Nope! He’s a fuckwit… possibly mentally ill too.

    • SandiCorrena

      Weeeeee says me as I pole vault over the fence!

  • LisaIsRemembered

    “…insulated from common sense.” Perfectly phrased. Marty continues to drink the clam juice. I don’t trust a thing the man says.

    • LisaIsRemembered

      That was quick, down-arrow-clam. Hopefully the cult lets you get some sleep instead of monitoring every comment here.

  • Bradley Greenwood

    I know, first-hand, how one can inherit mental disorders… I am profoundly neurotic. I don’t think Marty can escape his issues anymore than I can. I am glad, however, my psychoses manifested themselves in a different manner. BTW I believe in better life through pharmaceuticals 😉

    • dbloch7986

      Bradley, since starting Zoloft I have seen what an anxiety-free life is like and I love it.

      • Bradley Greenwood

        I am a tough one to cure. I have real, tangible issues that would make anyone loopy. Most drugs bounce off me like bullets on a tank. I can take the edge off… but hate getting sleepy. I wish I could get a hold of the stuff LRH was taking. However he still “lost it”. The weirdest part is that he seemed to start buying his own fantasies, which is common for many cult leaders.

  • jensting

    Thanks for taking one for the team… I think I’ll wait for a later book which has more of the “Farsec sounded insane” and less of the “Ingram good Flynn evil” stuff. Touch on Marty and his family to have faced such an array of troubles; that is terribly hard to cope with and succumbing to the siren call of a cult is hardly the worst one can do. As other cult victims have said “no-one joins a cult” and I don’t hold it against Marty that he was sucked in.

    But.

    Running campaigns against critics which result in low level criminality or even “only” breaches civil law is not without consequences. Mike Rinder is on record as dismissing the spying on critics’ travelling as the sort of thing that big corporations do all the time. A) So what. B) It still has consequences for the well-meaning victims of the mind-fuck perpetrated by the criminal organisation known as thge “church” of $cientology

    In France, Remy Petit was a “public” who volunteered to help out OSA. He stole some letters from a dreaded “psych.” Later he turned state’s evidence and helped secure a conviction of the head of OSA in France. Right before the appeal of this conviction, Remy Petit was found dead, his death not being investigated very far (I believe a verdict of suicide was entered). (French article, half way down http://www.prevensectes.com/edj2.htm )

    • DeElizabethan

      Thanks for info about article. I wonder if Rinder still thinks like that? A) so what and yes, there are consequences even if no actual crime like stealing happened.

      That’s the think and the PR that was given to me that oh, all big corp’s do it and I believed it and so did some dirty work. Took me awhile but found these enemies were not bad people, but actual victims of this so called church I was helping through deceit and was morally wrong.
      When anybody says, oh they were only assholes or jerks anyway, then I know they still think like OSA and are still mind k-f**ked. One gets a sense of a person if they have regrets or are truly sorry, which a scio with no heart will ever be.
      Anyone who thinks their church did not harm anyone or is not sorry for their contribution too, has blinders on, is stupid and still under their mind-control.

      What a sad story about Remy, thanks for the info.

      • Snake Plissken

        You’d figure they would have gotten over the cult by now, but by the looks of it, they are nowhere near ready to begin coping with reality.

        The only thing that rathbun and Rinder are sorry about is they’re sorry that they no longer can pretend to be important Naval Officers in Hubbard’s Fake Navy because Miscagive kicked they to the curb.

        Now they’re relegated to playing out their cult drama in the Freezone as part of Captain Bill Robertson’s Galactic Patrol, along with the rest of the damaged goods Miscavige tossed onto Scientology’s scrapheap.

        Normally I’d feel sorry for someone as pathetic as Rathbun or Rinder, but I can’t feel sorry for people like Miscavige or his thugs, even if those thugs were kicked to the curb.

        I can’t help laughing at Rathbun referring to himself as a warrior, he still hasn’t accepted the fact that he was nothing but a chump.

        • DeElizabethan

          Good one, Snake and I agree.

    • Snake Plissken

      Marty hasn’t quite figured that the only value left in the Scientology Brand is batshit crazy entertainment.

      Nobody is interested in his Hubbard Good Miscavige Bad Shtick.

      The only way Marty can leverage his little Freezone Cult into something of value, is to get a few video feeds and turn it into a dysfunctional reality tv freakshow.

  • Captain Howdy

    Molly who posted the comment on marty’s newest schtick

    I love you

    That was a thing of hardcore beauty.

    • Sherbet

      I had to pop in to Marty’s blog to read Molly’s comment — even though I
      never read Marty’s blog — and now I have agita again. Thanks, Howdy.

    • EnthralledObserver

      Oh yeah… I saw that and thought the exact same thing.
      Go, Molly!

    • hogarthian

      I can’t find it. I had to scroll through ALL of them, and now I feel a bit tired and emotional.

      Where is it?

      • Sidney18511

        It is on his newest post where he announces his book is available on KINDLE, and that the critics still HATE IT. There is only 13 comments total. I know your exhausted….but you can do it!

      • The Dakini

        I saw that too Captn’! From Molly- “You certainly think pretty highly of yourself! I will not be buying or reading your book because, although I don’t know you, I am very embarrassed for you. You’re a grown ass man who dressed up in a silly costume and spoke some silly gibberish language for most of your adult life. And that totally wasted life has left you feeling superior yo those who chose to not waste their lives playing dress up. The fact that as part of this silly waste of time, you wounded the souls of countless people by enforcing the soul crushing rules & regs of your silly “religion”.”

        • hogarthian

          Fab, Ta!

  • media_lush

    for the record it’s David Love’s birthday today….. http://www.facebook.com/David.Edgar.Love

    • DeElizabethan

      Great, thx

    • aquaclara

      I hope he checks in today! If he does, HAPPY BIRTHDAY, David! Hope your day is an excellent one!

  • Kimberly Gooden Bumpas

    I MIGHT have bought Marty’s newest book but after his little narcissistic outburst over on his blog, just forget it, he can kiss my. Arse.

    • Kimberly Gooden Bumpas

      And I could care less if I get a hundred down arrows. Bring it on.

  • hogarthian

    Okay… I’ve thought long and hard about this. It has taken me all night to put my smorgasbord of thoughts in order and make some sense of them. It was a lot to trawl through, and exhausting. But I think I’ve sussed it now. He’s fucking mad.

    • Missionary Kid

      What’s the URL for the comments section? All I see is his ad for the book.

      • hogarthian
        • Missionary Kid

          Thanks, I just found it when you answered. It’s nearly 8 am where you are, isn’t it?

          • hogarthian

            It’s actually 09.06!

            • Missionary Kid

              I’m a pilot, so I usually set the second time on my watch to Zulu (GMT) time, but I haven’t used my watch when filing a flight plan for a while. Somehow, it got set an hour off.

              Zulu time is +8 local time during daylight savings time in the summer, and +7 when we use standard time. As I type this, it’s 1:14 am on the West Coast of the U.S.

            • hogarthian

              Why ‘Zulu’ time?

            • Missionary Kid

              Zulu time means that there is a zero offset from Greenwich Mean Time, or the time at the Greenwich Observatory in England where the zero meridian was set. It is the time used in all of Great Britain.

              My offset, while we’ve got Daylight Savings Time is +8. In other words, when it is 1 am here on the West coast of the U.S., it’s 8 hours later, or 9 am at Greenwich.

              Because pilots often cross time zones, to avoid confusion, we file flight plans according to Zulu time.

            • hogarthian

              lol! I know what GMT is (you’d like to think so wouldn’tcha?)… but why do you call it ‘Zulu’?

            • Missionary Kid

              Zulu for zero. It’s the phonetic alphabet used when a radio transmission may be misunderstood because of static, etc.

              Pilots say “niner” instead of nine for the same reason. When the radio isn’t real clear, nine can actually sound like five, believe it or not.

            • hogarthian

              Oh of cooouurrrse! duh!

            • Missionary Kid

              Don’t worry about it. Here in the U.S., when I learned to fly over 40 years ago, we called it GMT. To fit in with international wording, we subsequently changed it to Zulu time.

              I still occasionally forget and call it GMT.

  • hogarthian

    In order to be honest with others, he needs to be honest with himself. I can say with some certainty that he never will be, which is a shame.

  • DodoTheLaser

    Let’s just chill people.

    After Marty will write 7 more books, it all will make perfect sense. I think.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Hmmmm. Only if each book includes a set of “corrections” of the previous volume.

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    I’ve never been in a cult, and I’ve never been able to close my mind totally to new ideas. So I guess I will never be able to fully understand a mindset that equates criticism with censorship.

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    Just noticed that we are closing in on a thousand comments here.

    I had no idea Arrested Development was so popular among Bunkerites…

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    My issue is not that the book doesn’t contain the fulness of what Rathbun knows. Nor is it that ideas have been presented that may not be factual. One’s own memories may be faulty. And, presented properly (ie: within the context of a given moment in time or situation) inaccuracies can even be illuminating.

    But when facts are altered in an apparent effort to burnish one’s autobiography… well… we have moved beyond memoir and into the realm of self hagiography.

    (To save some of our younger readers a Google search, hagiography is writings about the lives of the saints.)

  • hogarthian

    I’ve read most of Marty’s replies now. I love it that we swear like navvie’s here in the Bunker (well, some of us)… he thinks that we’re reprehensible, inarticulate, bottom dwellers. Fabulous!

    • Missionary Kid

      Wot th’ fuck you talkin’ about? 😉

    • Observer

      Reprehensible bottom dwellers we may be, but someone has a huge MU on “inarticulate”!

    • tetloj

      I’ll have mine with a side of joking and degrading thanks

  • media_lush

    I think I know what Marty is……..

  • 0tessa

    Warrior he was allright. But on the wrong side and for the wrong people.
    He is maybe in peace now with himself, but the world is far from being in peace with him.
    Criminal behaviour cannot be wiped off like that.

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    Must sleep, but instead I am reading the bewildering comments at Rathbun’s blog. Just had to copy and paste this gem:

    “I go to Tonys blog occasionally to read tne news, but the editorial content is pretty sick.Those people need to ” get a life” There is no movin on up alittle higher for them. They are stuck in complain mode and cant escape. A positive attitude, they will never have.”

    So there you are. We all need to be “movin on up a little higher.” And in no time at all we’ll be, you know, higher up.

    • Missionary Kid

      You, of course mean, moving up the bridge. A mixed metaphor.

      • EnthralledObserver

        Except now it’s kinda a ‘ladder’ rather than a ‘bridge’

        • Missionary Kid

          It’s always been a rabbit hole, but I think of it as more of a rat hole.

          • EnthralledObserver

            haha… true

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        (Personally, I’d just as soon move across the Ladder…)

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          Or into the Stairs.

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            Or up the down Elevator.

    • Observer

      So Marty’s acolytes spend their time complaining about us “complaining”, though I bet their definition of the word is closer to “they won’t admit we’re right and that Marty is a great man” than what you’d find in the dictionary.

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    999 and counting…

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    This marks comment 1000.

    Alert the (wog) media.

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    Well, this is hilarious. The acolytes over at Rathurn’s blog are whining that Tony and his cult have no right to criticize, on the basis that WE HAVE NEVER BEEN IN THE CoS. That’s right– unless we have run an engram, or gone clear, or moved up the Bridge, we have no right to even comment on any of this.

    Hmmmm. I wonder (I do wonder) just how many of those same acolytes over there can tell me (with complete assurance) about just how evil psychiatrists and pharmaceutical companies are. And (I wonder, oh I wonder) just how many of them have ever diagnosed a mental illness, developed a new medication, or dispensed a prescription.

    Just wonderin’.

    • Missionary Kid

      Oh, but you’re asking them questions about entheta. You’re also talking about evil, unnecessary drugs. LRH said that. Drugs are bad, evil, and, to repeat myself, unnecessary once you apply the tech correctly.

      They’re not going to “play your game.” You’re just here to cause them harm because you haven’t had the experience they have.

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        (That’s why it’s a rhetorical question.)

    • Theo Sismanides

      Ι am reading the book and reading Tony’s review here. I can say that Tony has no heart for the arts… The Book is fascinating and it proves the vigor of the human soul! Rathbun is a talented author and a brave guy… I think he was taught lessons much before Hubbard from the age of 5 that his mother passed away.

      • Theo Sismanides

        Oh I said Tony has no heart for the arts… should I say better Tony you got no heart, boy… you turned this personal biography of Rathbun into a cheap journalistic review for your interests…. I am now pissed as I read the book and this whole review is very bad because Rathbun there lays his whole life and his whole heart. I see how cold blooded people can be so I don’t care now… this is exploitation of personal story to turn it into another anti-scientology cheap story. Big mistake mr. Tony.

        • EnthralledObserver

          Theo… don’t forget Marty sent it TO Tony for reveiw. If he didn’t want the feedback he shouldn’t have sought it! And let’s face it… anyone publishing a book is doing so for feedback. otherwise it would remain safely among their computer files if it was purely for cathartic reasons.
          So, no more whining… else I might have to bring up the other point that writers write for PROFIT!

          • Theo Sismanides

            I am not just whining… I want Tony to come and explain… how come he brutalizes a life story of a child of 5 years old who lost his mother and then this brother and then his other brother? Come on people, don’t you see you don’t have all the data? Tony did. He read the book.

            • Arthur B

              Because it’s also the life story of a man who spied on and brutalised people on behalf of Scientology for decades, and rather than expressing contrition from all that Marty seems determined to justify everything he did before 1986 and dismisses everything after that as not important.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Listen, I have been an SO member for 9 years. When Marty was part of Int Mgmt. So I think I have something more to say against Marty than most here. But because Differentiation on this planet is a tough game it’s not easy to see who is wrong and who is right. yes Marty did many things. Do you know though what Marty has been doing for the last 3 years? Since some people here want to be the good guys, they never want to forgive anybody. Marty now is on his own with a wife and some deers in his backyard and a dog he loves. So, why do you think Marty is going to give himself as food to carnivores, mister? We are no saints, we are bringing some other realities to this world and we are treated as crazy in the best of cases. Yes, Marty has a right to defend himself all he wishes from the moment he stepped out of the church.

            • Arthur B

              And the people he victimised as part of that church deserve an apology from him. When is that coming, Theo?

              For the last three years Marty has been desperately trying to set himself up as leader of the independent Scientology movement because he can’t accept that Scientology is actually kind of amateurish and crappy when it comes to “talking therapies”. (Yes! Believe it or not, there are psychiatric therapies out there which don’t involve drugs and electrocution and brain surgery! It’s almost as though the field moved on and improved itself in the last 50 years whilst Scientology has remained mired in blindly following Hubbard.)

              For the last three years Marty has vacillated between providing genuine help to people exiting the CoS and trying to whitewash the organisation by pinning all of its problems on David Miscavige, a man who’s simply following LRH tech to a level of ruthlessness which Marty tried to emulate but in the end couldn’t compete with.

              Yes, Marty has a right to defend himself, but the right to defend yourself doesn’t extend to a right to libel other people and make up stories about conspiracies against you. It’s one thing to defend yourself, it’s another thing to bluntly deny you’ve ever done anything wrong, and Marty is engaging in the latter. Defending yourself by casting blame at others and slamming your critics is classic Scientology PR and by behaving in this way Marty’s proved that on some level he’s still the ugly pitbull he was in the CoS – and now he’s outside he doesn’t have Miscavige as the big dog keeping him in line. I feel sorry for anyone close to him if and when Marty finally decides to do some Scientology Warrioring for the sake of the independent movement.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Dear Arthur B, I think Marty first of all (my opinion) is tired of warrioring of that kind and wants to be a writer. That’s my personal take on this.

              About the church, that’s your biggest enemy if you guys think that Scientology is crappy. Go after them. Leave us, Indies, alone as we are not part of that herd. Do you have the guts to do that? Go ahead and be my guests. Because they are gonna sit on the necks of our kids with their version of Scientology in a Globalised Earth worse than 1984 by George Orwell. This is their plan. So any Marty who got out is not really any danger to you good people of Earth. And no Theo is any enemy to you. We just protect our right to our religious beliefs and when I see them ridiculed to that degree I go sarcastic. Marty is on his own, he doesn’t need to become a MartyR. That’s his name ok but he doesn’t have to. Let the man alone and attack that man who is making Scientology look like a totalitarian state religion. And permit me to say that Hubbard was not like that as the church augmented in his years whereas now it’s stagnant but has the support of the Globalists.

            • Arthur B

              OK, so that thing I pointed out about making up stories about conspiracies? This “globalist” stuff falls into that category. Trust me, CoS is making absolutely no headway in the wog world. If the Illuminati wanted Scientology to be the world religion they’re doing kind of a crappy job of managing its PR.

              Religiously, Theo, you’re allowed to believe anything you like. What irks me about independent Scientologists is when they try to set themselves up as therapists – playing exactly the same game the CoS does when it tries to flim-flam about whether Dianetics and Scientology are religious practices or methods of therapy. (Hubbard himself wasn’t exactly consistent on that point.) By offering auditing services and encouraging others to do so Marty is setting himself up not as a martyr but as a quack therapist, and whilst you have the right to your religion, it doesn’t extend to a right to sell snake oil.

            • Theo Sismanides

              If you knew about auditing and you had the same win not as me but as the average scientologist then maybe you would understand.

            • Arthur B

              It will take more than some amateur hour talking therapy, two tin cans and a placebo effect to make me “understand” where you’re getting this “globalist” nonsense from.

            • Theo Sismanides

              yeah, right. So you haven’t got any auditing and you will obviously never will. Doesn’t matter! keep the distance.

            • Arthur B

              What do you think you are accomplishing with this?

            • Theo Sismanides

              What do you think You are accomplishing? I don’t know.

            • EnthralledObserver

              That child has grown into a man that admitted to perpetrating crimes and misdeeds on others in the name of the cult he belonged to. He’s far from being the only victim here… and no one here was responsible for Marty’s sad childhood, but Marty is responsible for what he did. When are you going to demand he explain how he brutalizes the rights of people to protect the criminals at the top of the Scientology foodchain?

            • Theo Sismanides

              You are playing the game of the church of Scientology either because you “can’t get it” or because the carnivores on this planet attack from all sides. Stop attacking Marty and start attacking the Church if you guys dare to do something about it.

            • Arthur B

              Theo, Theo, Theo, you’re assuming we can’t attack both at once! And after all, why shouldn’t we? In terms of their attitudes and behaviours there’s often not much difference.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Thank you same goes to you.

            • DeElizabethan

              Theo, your own words back at you, why? Because You can’t really differentiate.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Hi Elizabeth, it’s been some time we haven’t talked. How are you? Please back up or explain your statement.

            • DeElizabethan

              Arthur, I luv u

            • EnthralledObserver

              I don’t really see too much difference between the two. Marty is Scientology to me just as much as the CO$… it’s all harmful, and Marty is harmful on multiple fronts because he not only still delivers this ‘tech’, but he has proven he’s capable of doing awful things if he feels he’s justified. But rest assured, I do attack the CO$ too… they aren’t missing out on my attentions.

            • Theo Sismanides

              This is why you are harmful for planet Earth. You cannot differentiate lady.

            • EnthralledObserver

              I recycle… I’m helping planet Earth… well that’s what those commercials tell me. 😉
              Theo… what if you’re wrong? That’s what I believe… LRH was just wrong. There is no need to consider ‘eternity’ if he’s wrong… and he IS wrong. That’s all there is to it, mate.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Are you trying to proselytise me? Do you have any worship temple I can rest a bit? in your hellish one life time span human miserable life?

            • EnthralledObserver

              lol… see, you assume my life is miserable. It’s not. I’m perfectly content with my lot and my ability to change it if I want. This is why you managed to get yourself tangled up in a cult and can’t find your way out of it’s think-trap, whereas I am just living…

            • Theo Sismanides

              yeah, live one life, forget about the rest… but keep it for yourself because on this Earth there came a time when the dead will awaken and realise that’s not all. It’s not just me saying this, one life-time is old story and it’s gone on forever on this planet. Things will change from now on.

            • Arthur B

              This is getting into Francis E. Dec territory.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Sorry! Do you mind? And actually this is getting also into Theo’s S. Jun. territory.

            • Arthur B

              “S. Jun.”?

            • Theo Sismanides

              gotta ya! Theo Sismanides (born in) June! Nice to meet you!

            • EnthralledObserver

              There is no ‘rest’, Theo… that’s your delusion.
              And guess what, should I somehow be wrong… well so fucking what? Life will go on and I’ll just live another life… there’s nothing wrong with what we are currently doing. I hardly see as the horrific and to be avoided trap that you claim. What’s your point? Life is fine!

            • Theo Sismanides

              Good at least you see that you may be wrong. That’s a good point. What pisses me off with some people is that they are so damn certain there is nothing else. And that is the prevalent notion and belief on this planet.

              At least let me and some others have our beliefs and believe otherwise. We never said you should agree, open your mouth and we are gonna shove it down your throat or hypnotise you and say NOW you BELIEVE in Reincarnation…

              There is a battle of ideas but it has to be civilised. I have a right to say I believe in reincarnation and not be thought to be a lunatic. A lot of the fights start from that point where one cannot accept the viewpoint of another.

              It’s good that you don’t see it as a trap but the way I see it at least is that Man needs to find new ways to deal with life.

            • EnthralledObserver

              You see, Theo, that’s where you are dead wrong. Scientology’s goal is global… NOT the individual. Otherwise it’s pointless. You can’t have a ‘safer’ world, if you haven’t affected the WHOLE world… so Scientology’s goal is to affect (infect) the WHOLE world, and every Scientolgist is tasked with the duty to indoctrinate as many people as possible. So, no, you don’t ‘let’ me have my belief at all… but you want me to ‘let’ you have yours. Yours, quite frankly, is absurd and childish… and I’m going to keep pointing it out to you and other Scientologists. Stop chasing butterflys and live in the real world!

            • Theo Sismanides

              So how come I don’t let you have your belief? What’s your belief anyway? I don’t even know. And don’t confuse churches with one’s beliefs as as I said to someone else all catholics should be accused of supporting a church of pedofilia.

              The church is one thing, the Indies are another. We are not pushing for a world religion. We are helping our fellow men.

            • DodoTheLaser

              “This is why you are harmful for planet Earth. You cannot differentiate lady.”

              Theo, tell me that post had one too many beers behind it.
              I enjoy me some too at times, but try not to post when I do.

            • Theo Sismanides

              haha Dodo, you are good… ok I admit that was a bit harsh… we are polishing some angles here and there and we are still in communication with Enthralled Observer.

              Yeah, I had a couple of beers but not all of my comments were like that. Something got me triggered there. Good observation though!

            • DodoTheLaser

              “Yeah, I had a couple of beers but not all of my comments were like that.
              Something got me triggered there. Good observation though!”

              No problem and thank you for being honest, Theo.
              I’m not perfect myself. (No one is.)

              I knew it’s the case, because it was too rough and… funny.

              I hope EO lady didn’t take it personally.

              I would apologize to her, if I would be you,
              not for different opinions, but for telling her

              that she’s harmful to planet Earth.

              For all we know she might be a mother or just a really good person,
              who helps people in number of ways.

              Just a thought.

              Thanks, Theo.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Thank you Dodo… I’m not offended by Theo though… I’m pushing his buttons elsewhere too, so understand and accept that the conversation is merely sometimes knee-jerk emotional responses to delicate subjects for some. I am tough and can hack heated convos like this without taking them personally.
              I am a mother of five, btw… and do consider myself a very good person. I try to help others when I can.

            • DodoTheLaser

              Wow, I knew it! :)

            • DodoTheLaser

              “the carnivores on this planet”, eh? Ok.

              I think most, if not all people here wish Marty and his family well.
              Simple as that.

              The “attacks” are not aimed at Marty, but at his unwillingness to
              set things 100% straight.

              Hope it makes sense, Theo.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Does make sense, Dodo… you speak fine, I think Marty is in a rough spot, all by himself now and trying to put back some communication line to his (as we call it) 4th dynamic (Mankind). He did make mistakes, big mistakes while in the church, but the church especially next to Miscavige is not a walk in the park. I am not justifying him for that. As an Indie and a peculiar one as it looks like, I would like to see much more understanding, some “what can be done now”, I would like to get some help from people, even non Scientologists to expose more and more Miscavige, I would like Scientology as such not as the church to make some more sense to people, to not sound and look like a monstrous trap but some people take a book and read it and maybe see they can use it in their everyday life with those they love.

              But since there are carnivores (you know we have a datum saying 2,5 % of Earth population will make a wreck of everything and get people to fight amongst them so they keep control of them) and we don’t see them all the time, one has to be powerful enough too, to deal with such situations too.

            • DodoTheLaser

              Good, Theo.

              I hear what you are saying re Marty.

              I KNOW you have a good heart – it’s obvious to me.

              And I knew what you meant re cornivores/2,5%, etc.,
              I just don’t see it that way anymore.

              Friendly advice – try to avoid thinking and speaking
              in scientology terms and concepts for a few days.

              Thanks again for communicating despite “the entheta”.

              You are a good man, Theo.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Hey Dodo, thanks. A bit of courtesy and thoughtfulness calms spirits down, hahaha. I’ll take a break. Thanks again.

            • DodoTheLaser

              You are welcome, my brother from another Greek mother :)
              Thank you too. Enjoy your break!

            • Valkov

              Probably when you start demanding that our government investigate and take responsibility for the law the Senate passed in 2003 which prohibits Medicare from negotiating the prices it pays for pharmaceuticals. Because of this law, passed by US Senators evidently bought and paid for by the pharmaceutical industry, Medicare pays about $24,000,000 per year more for medications than it would otherwise.

              I assume you’ll get right on it because this actually affects or will affect you and everyone you know, including your parents, your children, etc.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Well, actually, I am Australian and live in Australia, so I don’t give a crap what your Government does with your Medicare. Best of luck solving that problem.

              Miscavige and Marty (when in) had a global impact when it came to Scientology, however… and I just want Marty, and expect that you would want him, to accept some responsibility for the crimes and misdeeds he committed against others. And showing publically that he is remorseful by now helping some of those people and sharing the details of those incidents and crimes would go a long way of vindicating him and endearing him to the community that is against the abuse the CO$ has been dishing out for decades.

            • Valkov

              You ‘don’t give a crap’? So much for empathy and compassion for others.

            • EnthralledObserver

              It’s a metaphor, Valkov… and it means that that situation doesn’t affect me, and I can’t effect any kind of change over it anyway.
              However, if you want to discuss foreign politics and feel empathy for someone, then I’m happy to get into a debate regarding how Julia Gillard and the Labor party have really balzed things up over the last few years…

            • Anonymookme

              So you think Marty is the only one who ever had serious mental health issues in his family? You think Marty is the only person who’s mother ever committed suicide?

              Other’s have lived through that horror but have not grown up to abuse others in the name of their “religion”.
              Marty’s a narcissist, the sooner you figure that out the better off you’ll be.

            • Theo Sismanides

              yeah, ok, tell what have you done in life anonymookme?

            • Anonymookme

              I’ll tell you what I haven’t done in my life, I haven’t ruined families, I haven’t bled people for money, I haven’t “fair gamed” people merely for disagreeing with me and speaking up and saying so, I haven’t pranced around in a fake navy costume pretending to be superior to people who I deem are ‘below” me. I haven’t wasted my life attempting to “save the planet” by spewing made up bullshit pulled from the ass of the biggest conman ever born, and then attempted to destroy anyone who saw through the bullshit and said it out loud. And because I am way, way too smart to have ever been sucked into something as ridiculous as Scientology, I am thankful to the FSM.

            • http://www.facebook.com/kim.obrien.775 Kim O’Brien

              OH SNAP !!!! :) Poor Theo …he just keep failing . All those scientology courses and he can’t even convince us lowly wogs ..sad really

            • Theo Sismanides

              FSM? what’s FSM?

              And then ok, you haven’t done any of those things which is good. Do you know though that the biggest bad is not what you DID but what you DIDN’t do, what you omitted to do. A dead person doesn’t lie, doesn’t kill, doesn’t abuse anyone but doesn’t do anything EITHER.

            • Anonymookme

              The FSM is the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

              While I have you here, I’ll tell you what I have done with my life. Nothing as extravagant as you’re used to, but here goes. I live a beautiful life. I have raised a family that has brought me such joy you can’t imagine. I have been married for 40 years. My sons and daughters are all very productive members of society. they love their families and are raising wonderful, loving children. None of us, me, my spouse, my children or my grandchildren will ever do anything as spectacular as “saving the planet”, but none of us have delusions of grandeur, nor a desire to be thought of as “Big Beings” in some silly ass cult.
              I do volunteer work to help women and children in need. While I’m doing the volunteer work with these unfortunate souls, I at no time, EVER, attempt to steal their money and leave them poorer and worse off than they already are. I work a real job. I don’t fund raise and attempt to squeeze money out of people in order to push my religious beliefs.
              I don’t waste my time chasing away imaginary space cooties and twisting the arms of others to get in on the imaginary space cootie chasing.
              I have, through my family, felt and gave real, raw, love. The love I have for my family could never be broken or torn away by the beliefs and teachings of some lunatic with a giant cyst growing out of his forehead, but that’s just me. Your mileage might vary.

            • Theo Sismanides

              It’s good to see through communication that after all we are not that “bad” or even so “different”. So you are a grandma… and a successful family woman… and you contribute to society too… This is so good and my hat is off to you.
              But let me point out that… how can I say this.. .there are different breeds of people who want adventure, want to save the world (sometimes they see their homes collapsing but they have to go on)… they are different breeds of cat. Maybe they weren’t born for what others were born, but that doesn’t mean they are bad.
              I left my family (I didn’t have children) and my ex-wife and went to the Sea Org. I committed myself to a purpose. I spent 10 years to be declared. Still I can see the difference between a cult and the doctrines of Scientology. Surely the church has done many abuses. The fact that I joined does not make me a criminal and the fact that I still support Scientology as an applied philosophy does not make me stupid or arrogant or even rude. we can be different but that ain’t bad. You know what is bad. For someone to come and tell you don’t talk to Theo he is bad or someone come to me and tell me do not talk to her, she is bad. If there is communication problems will be solved.
              Again, my respects.

            • DodoTheLaser

              I wish you well in your life journey, Theo.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Thanks Dodo, same goes here. Just happened to visit… it was good. I hope I didn’t insult too many people… ok I step on some toes as I am walking through here but mostly we are ok… I am just presenting the “enemy” side but the point is I don’t belong to the church anymore.

              I think it all comes down to whether one accepts the existence of a soul and it being actually our very self, or not.

              However, on a more civilised basis, this should be the matter to debate upon (as such blogs are offered for debate, too) and not just throwing insults at each other.

              Thoughtfulness and courtesy make elbows rub better.

            • DodoTheLaser

              Welcome, Theo.

              I see your point/s.

              It’s good that we can discuss things.

              Things get heated at times understandably.

              Soul or not, we can at least stick with common human values.

              And yes – Thoughtfulness and courtesy make elbows rub better.

              Let’s do just that.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Cool!

            • DodoTheLaser

              :)

            • EnthralledObserver

              You left your wife to join the Sea Org… well that just says it all, doesn’t it?
              You’ve shoved away the good in life to take up someone else’s imaginary quest and crusade to dominate the entire world. That’s beyond pathetic.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Am I the first one leaving a wife? Or should I stick to a person forever if I see that we cannot be together anymore?

            • Valkov

              A-mookme, you sound like you might be about my age or a little younger. It sounds like you have lived an exemplary and commendable life. And I do commend you for it.

              Were you drafted to serve in Vietnam, back in the day?

              I ask because I definitely have my own “baggage”, and am always a little suspicious of people self-satisfied in their righteousness. As I read your bio I couldn’t help but recall Joan Baez’ song “There But For Fortune”.

              I can’t help but wonder how much of your commendably righteous life was actually due to the plain dumb luck of being born a few years too late to be subject to the draft for Vietnam, and how your life might have gone otherwise.

              As I asked another poster, I will ask you, too. Do you go to church? Does your church accept with open arms the sinners as well as the already righteous kind of the “very best people”?

              I don’t know you, I am just wondering. As I said, It’s my own baggage that leads me to this kind of questioning.

              Surely you could understand and feel compassion for a person like me?

            • Anonymookme

              You miss my point. My description and the reality of my life is not meant as a look how great I am post. There are millions of people in this world who can describe their lives the same way I did.
              My life has not been perfect or without some bumps, but I managed (as millions of others have as well) to get through it all without joining a cult, ruining the lives of others, telling myself that by virtue of my cult membership I’m superior to others.
              To answer your questions, I did not serve in Vietnam and am an occasional church goer.

            • Valkov

              OK. But did you get my point? How about the millions of others who are not so fortunate?

            • aquaclara

              Still sounds like whining, though. IMHO.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Ah Theo, you are defending your friend and that is a good thing. But I don’t think this is all as black or white as you guys are portraying it.

          • Theo Sismanides

            Of course I agree, we can also be ruthless towards people who did something worthwhile in their lives instead of just… cheaply critiquing other’s lives.

            • Arthur B

              What did Marty achieve which was of worth? He spent three decades as a hatchet man for an organisation which chew him up and spat him out when it was tired of him.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              We can encompass “you guys” as well.

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        Mr. Rathbun’s book claims to be a memoir. “Art” should have nothing to do with it. “Art” is the root word of “artifice,” describing that which is artificial or enhanced.

    • Anonymookme

      So to follow their logic, those of us who have never been in the cult have no business being critical of the abusive cult. Ergo, since I have also never been a Nazi or a member of the KKK, I should keep my opinion regarding them to myself also and have no right to comment on the evil they perpetrated.

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        Exactly.

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    Good night. I mean it this time.

    Oh, and ending on a positive note (so hard for this embittered, negative member of the cult), I love you all and hope you will be happy. Even that indie guy from Greece.

    • Missionary Kid

      3D, that got a belly laugh from me. Good night.

    • Theo Sismanides

      hey, thanks I do, too. No hard feelings.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jeb.burton.50 Jeb Burton

    Tony’s review of his book was obviously important to him. He sent him an advanced copy and Im sure was hoping that Tony would reaffirm what a great warrior he was. Unfortunately, Tony did that pesky thing called fact checking and caught him in his lies. But he did for the first time, post one of my comments on his blog. Apparently, Tony is my guru and I must buy his book.

    • Missionary Kid

      As I understand it, this site is unmoderated. I think if Tony had to moderate all (today it is) 1000+ comments, he’d be pretty cranky. This site, however is self-selecting. Tony isn’t my guru, but I respect his honesty and that he checks facts.

      Marty, I think, got tired of moderating and told Derek to buy his book, too. I think that some of the posts were removed out of embarrassment for Marty.

  • Illinoisian
    • MO Mom

      Thank you for the link. Serious freaking gremlins with the site, nothing after Claire’s weekly post is showing up for me, no matter what platform or browser I use.

      • aquaclara

        Mine is working well now. But if you are still stuck, sometimes clicking in from twitter works for me, if you can see that. FB might also work – I think Tony puts the link there, too.

  • BuryTheNuts2

    I went to Marty’s this morning. Mistake. I snapped.
    I am in moderation. I think I may stay in that black hole forever.

    • EnthralledObserver

      copy paste here… just in case?

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      You went there. lol. I think the whole censorship schtick is just that. It’s a loaded language word and I can’t help suspect it is just another marketing/sales ploy. I was going to buy the book, but Marty has convinced me otherwise.

    • EnthralledObserver

      Brilliant… :)

    • Kimberly Gooden Bumpas

      I love you btn! I went over there last night and I wanted so badly to just let loose on his Arse but I caved.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        I didn’t want to. I actually feel some sympathy for the guy.
        But it was just crap. He chides Tony and us for the exact same thing he is doing over there…albeit, less successfully!

        • Poison Ivy

          Love your straight talk, BTN.

    • sister wendy

      big balls!

  • Arthur B

    Marty’s stomping and pouting about being “censored” is really sad. It drives home just how much Scientology has broken him.

    To Marty, criticism which crosses the line into criticising Scientology is a conspiracy of censorship, because that’s how Scientology trained him to see the world. He’s been so scrambled by the LRH way of looking at the world and going about your daily business that he still can’t see the forest for the trees. He’s still convinced Scientology works, and can’t see any way to support himself beyond perpetuating it with his own books and independent auditing services. He’s like a robot who’s escaped the robot factory but continues blindly following his programming anyway because he can’t change it.

    Here’s another blinding example of David Miscavige’s incompetence: somehow, he managed to drive Marty away from the Church, despite the fact that Marty clearly still believes almost everything the Church believes.

    • EnthralledObserver

      Miscavige is a whole special breed of stupid…

    • Theo Sismanides

      Marty left for reasons you apparently cannot and did not understand. This shows how little you know about what is going on between the church and the scientologists who depart in protest of misuse of hubbard’s tech and policy.

      • Captain Howdy

        Theo, there’s a newer post up. There have been technical problems with the site lately and things aren’t loading like they should.

        http://tonyortega.org/2013/05/30/word-to-your-mother-dianetics-and-its-lack-of-boundaries/

        • Theo Sismanides

          What do you mean? I shouldn’t keep posting here?

          • ParticleMom

            Theo, the conversation generally moves to the newest thread. Most people won’t see it if you post on older threads, even from the day before.

            Keep posting! I’m glad you are here, even if you we don’t agree :)

            • Theo Sismanides

              Hahaha, kind of felt it… nah.. I don’t know… the other post… I didn’t even read the whole thing. I will have a look but I think I will have things to say again. In any case most people here made me feel welcome. I got a bit mad about the review on Marty because as I read two chapters Marty is not really the bad guy everybody thinks. I have been very much harmed by Int Mgmt of Scientology and still I don’t blame him. He left them, so this is good. Anybody can have a change.

      • Anonymookme

        Marty left once he found himself on the receiving end of the abuse, He thought the cult was the tits as long as he was the one dishing it out.

        • Theo Sismanides

          Whatever, point is he left.

          • Anonymookme

            “whatever”, Really? Had the tables not been turned on your pal, Mr. Self Important Marty, he’d still be abusing and kissing DM’s ass.
            Some hero you’ve got there, Theo.

            • Theo Sismanides

              I don’t have any heros… I just want to see what this bunch of “commenters” would do in some real tough shit situation. So you ain’t got any right to comment on ex-SO. Comment on SO members. That I can have.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              There are plenty of ex sea org here who have every right to comment and just as much or more insight than you Theo.
              Do you guys forget that a very large portion of the blog commenters here spent years inside the organization?
              You are deluding yourselves if you think this group is clueless about Scientology.

            • DeElizabethan

              So right BTN. This group knows more than any single scio does. Because, they have never been in the bubble or they have escaped from it and can see many other ‘points of views’, can look at facts, truth to differentiate and make conclusions as an individual. Also know all the BS and see it plainly. Something a lot of indies can’t do, at least yet.

            • Anonymookme

              You know what Theo, I think the problem is the actual name, “Scientology”. What Marty needs to do is create a whole new name for “Scientology” which, considering the ease at which all the happy Clams living in Clamtopia should be able to do in a blink of an eye. You know how you guys are so good at inventing language and words and what not.
              How about Marty’s “new” religion be called Narcissistology. Just transfer all of the tired, phony, laughable “tech” over from “Scientology” to Narcissistology. Marty can finally achieve what he so desperately wants, he can be “The Source” for Narcissistology. Marty has never wanted to replace DM. Marty wants to the the New, Improved, “Source”.
              I hereby dub Marty the Source of Narcissistology. Poof!

            • Theo Sismanides

              Marty wants to be a writer, a skill you need to work on, I guess!

            • hogarthian

              and so does Marty, I guess.

            • EnthralledObserver

              ooh.. burn!

            • Yeppir

              I dub him, “Maitreya Rathbun.” I think he’d like that. /snicker, snort

            • EnthralledObserver

              Narcissitic Sauce… sounds good. 😉

            • dbloch7986

              Hi Theo,

              It’s a fallacy to believe that just because you have not experienced something that your input on the subject should be deemed worthless.

              I am ex-SO. So I fit into your category, or are you going to say I don’t count because I wasn’t at Int?

              Mary Rathbun was second in command of the Sea Org. He was DM’s lapdog. The motherfucker had a car, internet, cell phone, permission to go wherever he was needed, ate good food, all paid for by people’s tax free donations.

              While I was sleeping 4 hours a night, trapped between my berthing packed with 30 people, stacked 3-4 high, no ventilation, half of it was supposed to be storage. There was no insulation in that room. It stunk. It was awful.

              I barely got to eat a full meal. I had between 5 and 20 minutes to eat. I didn’t get proper schooling. My only education was Hubbard. The food was the same food that prisoners get fed. If you were late, you only got left overs.

              I didn’t get time off, didn’t get to travel. I was forced, against my will, to move 3000mi away from my family at the time.

              I was 15 – 17 years old.

              Theo, Marty was running the show.

              Marty is responsible for directives that came down from “Int”.

              Mary perpetuated the abuse as much as he suffered it.

              Marty left because he was mad and he is quarreling with DM. This is not a self-righteous quest and it upsets me that he pretends to be setting the record straight with Scientology.

              If Marty had been able to push DM out and take over, he would have, and he would have been just as abusive.

              He has shown no remorse whatsoever to people like me who were really damaged by the cult of Scientology. His bullying tactics at his blog and his need to create a new enemy in Tony and this blog are reflective of typical Scientology tactics.

              I’m sorry, but you are still being victimized and so is everyone at that blog. Instead of the Church of Scientology victimizing you, it is people using you to carry out a personal vendetta against someone who they perceived to have wronged them.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Derek I read your story on Marty’s, wasn’t it there? What happened then? I am now going to read your answer to me but I had this question before if you care to answer.

            • Anonymookme

              Theo, I am one of the harpies who has never been sucked into your silly ass religion. I have also never been a Nazi nor have I ever been in the KKK. I am absolutely certain that I can state unequivocally that all three of these organizations are pure evil.
              Your religion ruins people’s lives. Your religion is cruel. Your religion tears families apart. Your religion is based on the lunatic rantings of a madman. Your religion is a con.

            • Theo Sismanides

              You don’t know my religion. And I am not talking about the church now. If you are a catholic would you be a pedofile, too?

            • Anonymookme

              Nice diversionary tactic!

            • Theo Sismanides

              So YOU are a catholic? See, even if you were, I am not accusing you of the crimes of that church. YOu should understand churches are different entities even from their Founders. I hope Jesus listens to me now!

            • Anonymookme

              What “god” do scientologists believe in? I’m assuming you consider LRH a ‘god”, which is odd to me.
              And, by the way, I’d be very surprised if you could find many Catholics, other than that loon Bill Donahue, who would defend any of the crimes perpetrated by the Catholic church or make any lame excuses for the men who perpetrated the crimes.
              But, here’s the deal, any rank and file Catholic can criticize the church in public, can stand face to face with any priest or bishop and tell them point blank what they think of the church’s handling of the crimes perpetrated by the pedophiles and not for a second be afraid of “fair game”, disconnection, etc. Catholics can go to confession and never think for a minute that the “sins” they confess are going to be used against them. Catholics can give $ to the church or not. Catholics are not desperately hounded for more $$.
              As bad as the pedophilia scandal is in the Catholic church, the church has done genuinely good work helping the poor.
              CO$ is a church founded by a megalomaniac for megalomaniacs.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Wait and see… I don’t think that in the early days of Christianity the parishioners or should I see the members of the church would do as they pleased. Especially in the days of the Roman Empire. I don’t think they would be ordered to fall into the lions but that is a probability too. there have been sacrifices for any church to stand the time test. Same is with Scientology now. It’s young and moving on (of course altered so as to fit the purposes of the Status Quo) and I don’t know what’s gonna happen after 200 years. The Indies, us, for example, are excommunicated and have no exchange whatsoever with the church.

              Scientologists believe there is God, but we don’t specify who is that God and certainly even Hubbard said “I am no God”. God is the 8th step up the ladder, the 8th dynamic as it’s called so we are mainly dealing with the other 7 (self, sex and children and family, the Group, 3rd one, Mankind 4th one, The Rest of Life, animals, birds, fish, nature and trees, the 5th one, Matter, Energy, Space and Time (MEST), in other words the Physical Universe, Spirits and anything Spiritual (like even music or the arts) as 7th. And finally God or Infinity as the 8th dynamic but this is not specified.

            • DeElizabethan

              Yes, wish he could see that, but apparently can’t. He’s too consumed with trying to influence us with Hubbard crap that we are all well aware of, and in defending his fellow scio.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Can you stop intervening in every comm cycle I have? i said you have no sympathy and you have no manners… please next time let me have a comm cycle with someone here without your rude interventions.

            • DeElizabethan

              My comm was with Derek, yes about you, too bad. My best manners to you today are F**k Off!

            • hogarthian

              Theo, do you speak Greek? I do. Ag gamisou.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Very good, I see you speak foreign languages, too. Awesome! Good for you!

            • Theo Sismanides

              ok Derek, I read your post. First of all I had read your story and I was really upset. Not just with you but with all the children and they way they were “brought up”. It was gross. Those children are heroes and their parents too stupid to not revolt and say NO GO.

              So, I can understand you and what you went through and how it is to not have a formal education since the “education” there was not education really. I am sorry about this. I was pondering about it in Denmark especially where children lived in much harsher conditions, not even toys or anything, no pocket money, nada. I do understand believe me.

              Marty was one of Int Mgmt. There were many. Now we know most of them, ED Int, Heber, Senior C/S and others are in the Hole. In the beginning I was thinking all of those guys were a gang and they were a gang of sorts but it’s proven now that they are not with DM like they used to be. Rathbun and Rinder and others left. Many are there and are prisoners.

              I tell you that myself have been kept in captivity under security (in the security room with the security guards) for maybe about 2 months or so….. what did I do? Complain or come out here and start screaming “I was kept captive, I was kept captive”? To who? To those people here who have a hard time to understand that “Thetans might exist, finally, and why don’t I see with myself if I AM A THETAN”… No, Derek.. nobody will understand you out here better than you will… So keep some things for yourself.

              Marty is not my boss. I want to go to his blog and post, I respect the rules he makes (it’s his blog) and I post.

              Marty wants to become and deserves to become a writer. He got too much shit on his fan… Remember your AOLA experience? I remember some seniors of your’s you were writing about… They were awful,.. weren’t they. Imagine now having DM as a senior…. I am not justifying for them… some people could have done something. …

              http://www.freezone.de/english/reports/theo_01.htm

              Read my story if you want here.

              But remember.. When a tree falls, everybody goes for the wood… Don’t become a fallen tree, Derek. You are young and more bright than many here you know why? Because you made the postulate to end in this life in the Sea Org as a child. You did. IT was your decision. Probably some of the carnivores here are going to attack me about this, but you (if you know your basic Scientology which I hope you got the chance to get in the SO) you, you know this is true. It was your postulate. And I salute you for this, big time. This is the most brave thing a kid could do. I know now it’s the difficult part. Nobody anticipated this kind of disaster. But still it is brave what you did. Others will NOT understand it and will say, the poor kid look what they did to him. But you know of Ethics now, not the DM type, the type we used to have and get things rolling…

              So my advice to you is, be smarter and take a step back and see who are your real friends. To me my real friends are those who fight to expose Miscavige and all his minions and whoever else is behind them, who see good in Scientology, who try to do away with the bad in it and who even are making some kind of amends, even in a strange way that wogs don’t understand.

              Don’t give yourself to the carnivores (I don;t mean the people here necessarily although there might be a couple around here, too) and keep your pride for what you have done.

              You can find me on FB if you want to be friends as Theo Sismanides.

            • hogarthian

              Oh god Theo, that is just beyond sweet of you! That’s an offer I’m sure Derek won’t be able to refuse. In fact, he’s probably packing his bags and booking a cab, as we speak. No-one understands Derek out here and he should ‘keep some things for himself’?? Are you having a fucking laugh? What a despicable, ignorant, cruel thing to say. I should think that the people who post here are among the few who HAVE understood him, and telling him to ‘keep some things for himself’ is that last fucking thing you’d hear anyone here say. Having to ‘keep things to himself’, I’d hazard a guess, is one of the main fucking reasons he ran away from you fucking wankers in the first fucking place, you’re a fucking abomination, you really are.

            • DeElizabethan

              Fuckin’ strong hogarthian! AWright!

            • Kim O’Brien

              i think i want to buy you a drink because THAT was awesome !

            • Theo Sismanides

              No, because I think we don’t have so much sympathy for each other, yet. When you get to terms with the idea that I have my right to say also what i want, if I don’t insult anybody, or violate the rules here without being called various names, then I will think about it. a coin has two sides.

      • Arthur B

        Oh, I understand why he left: his ticket for the first-class compartment on the gravy train got cancelled.

      • EnthralledObserver

        Marty left because Miscavige finally turned on him personally and had him thrown in the hole… otherwise he’d still be there.

        • Theo Sismanides

          And Miscavige put him in the hole because Marty finally decided to put up with it all…. there is no otherwise, come to present time.

          • Arthur B

            “Come to present time”, ahahaha, I bet you even believe Ron’s own line about how you can cure a bunch of people in mental institutions just by wandering around telling them that exact phrase. Keep dancing your kooky little dance, it’s doing a brilliant job of underscoring what a sober and serious and deeply thought-out religion the independent Scientology movement is.

            • Theo Sismanides

              I wasn’t referring to any lunatic I was referring to you. But now that you are talking about it, it might be easier to cure such a person than a “sane” “normal” run of the mill person of our society. Too many bricks on the wall.

            • Arthur B

              Certainly it would be difficult for you to provide any therapy with goofy techniques like saying “come up to present time” or “be three feet back of your head” as though they are magic words.

            • Theo Sismanides

              You don’t have any idea of what Intention is and what is going on at the upper levels of the Tone Scale. NOOOW, go get yourself a cup of coffee and cool down. There are no magic words, there is INTEEEENTIOOOOON! And real Intention is not shouting and screaming, it’s a very relaxed, certain and full of life Tone level.

            • hogarthian

              ohhhhh….. you mean scientologists use the same tone with one another that psychiatric hospital and geriatric nursing home staff use to talk to their patients? You’re all as mad as mad things on a mad day in Madland.

            • Theo Sismanides

              you either know nothing about Scientology (still making carping comments about it) or you don’t really get what I said. You just throw something there today (we have been discussing this since yesterday) which is completely off the wall. I didn’t say what you are writing above and keep the Madlands for other guys. We are ok here as far as I am concerned.

            • hogarthian

              You have just presumed that I didn’t know that you had been discussing this since yesterday. That was your first mistake. I have read every word that you have said since yesterday. I say ‘said’, when in fact you have said nothing coherent whatsoever, you are the one who is firing at will here (linguistically speaking), which implies that you’re on the defensive, and a little out of your depth. Your second mistake is that you presume that I know nothing about scientology. Given that I have read the books of everyone who has blown (everyone, that is, who wasn’t either too scared to or paid off) I can say, with some confidence, that I probably know more about what scientology is than you do. I’d suggest that, before your next visit here, you do some breathing exercises to help you concentrate, and then spend some more time rehearsing the justifications that you have created for Marty and yourself and others like you….. after all, wars have been won and lost on such a lack of communication, apparently.

            • Theo Sismanides

              LOL, you have read the books of blown people so you say you know more about Scientology than I do?

              LOL, lady… oh god… at least this internet and those blogs give to some people some “space” so that they can say whatever comes to their mind. Who cares anyway…

              gee… she knows more about Scientology than I do by having read ALL THE BOOK of BLOWN people… hahahahahahahaahahhaha… I can’t stop laughing… thanks Tony for all your guests but this one really made me laugh… I can go do my breathing exercises now my lady… Have a good night and thank you very much for the best joke I have heard lately…. ahhahaahhahaha… (can’t stop laughing).

            • hogarthian

              Oh dear, you’ve misunderstood me, that’s unfortunate. You need to read what I said again….. I said ‘know more about what scientology IS’. I didn’t say ‘know more about how it works’.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Well THAT is Scientology, my lady… HOW IT WORKS not what others have to say about it. I didn’t misunderstand you at all.

            • hogarthian

              But it doesn’t work. If it works then why have so many people left? If it works, then why do I not understand you? If it works, then why would you have to type so many ‘hahahahah’s’ when surely, if it worked, only one would do?

              And please don’t call me ‘my lady’, it really is very condescending.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Ok my lady, as you don’t duplicate me, I can’t duplicate you. Sorry.

            • hogarthian

              Fuck off.

            • stillgrace

              Good riddance, my little man.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Thanks once in a while this has to be done… especially when one is not duplicated meaning he/she says something and this is not received by the other person EXACTLY as it was said. This does not mean that the other person would agree to what was said, it just shows that the person who originated the communication, his communication that is, was received and understood.

            • DeElizabethan

              LOL. He actually loves the discourse, so he can one up you.
              His intention to rip you as ‘my lady’ was condescending. However I believe you are a respectable Lady which he denied with his attitude. Scientologists look down on all who aren’t following Hubbards words.
              Lady Dee

            • hogarthian

              It’s ok Dee, he can stick a fork in me, I’m done. :-)

            • DeElizabethan

              That was cute Theo. I put in 13 years and haven’t read All the books yet but the lady knows what she is talking about. You have only seen one side and are a warrior for Hubbard. I read your declare to the bottom, especially the bottom. So differentiate if you can and allow others to Know also. Insidious, dangerous and evil is not hard to see, when you can look with an open mind and eye.

            • Theo Sismanides

              The lady might know but I don’t know what you are talking about. Please next time we talk just communicate.. .and not attack with words like BS or whatever other carping comments you used today… oh yes.. I remember now… you said I am a very bad example of a Scientologist so people don’t want to be like that… I mean childish and very invalidative… I put some hours on this blog to chat to people who became nicer and nicer not nastier and nastier…. You come in and are nasty right from the start? WHat’s your religion, I don’t want to be like that either. If we don’t learn to communicate in a civilised manner, I think this is where it all breaks down. I have been very patient and playful here. Not in all cases but in most. I kept my guns checked. Please do the same and if you have anything specific to discuss about Scientology I am more than willing to discuss it. There are so many kids out here, Elisabeth, let them find their thetans… I bet you had your chance.

            • DeElizabethan

              “There are so many kids out here, let them find their thetans.” ??

              The children will find ‘themselves’ given a chance to grow up without being controlled by a devious, insidious, evil cult. IMO.
              For the rest of your inval/eval, I repeat: f**k off or expect more of the same, should I choose.

            • DeElizabethan

              Nice hogarthian, like your style and honesty.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Avada Kadavra! AVADA KEDAVRA!
              That’s the thing with the ‘unforgivables’…you have to MEAN IT…
              I’ve said it before… there’s a whole lot of similarity between Scientology and Harry Potter… and as a Potterholic myself, I’d say this is why when I found this ongoing drama online the more I learned, the more I became intrigued… and HORRIFIED!

            • Theo Sismanides

              Oh you find the Scientology drama online? Tell me what happened? And all you know about Scientology is from the internet? Just curious.

            • EnthralledObserver

              I followed the bread-crumb trail from the news reports of Tom Cruise’s marriage break-up one day. I barely knew he was a ‘Scientologist’ before then, and had no idea what it was, nor knew anyone who ever mentioned it. I’m from regional Queensland in Australia and there is NO Scientology here for thousands of kilometers, so there was no way I could have heard of it any way other than the internet.
              Since then, of course, I’ve read plenty online. I started with Marty’s blog and then stumbled across Tony Ortega’s at Village Voice, plus a plethora of youtube videos and blogs that just led from one to another. I realised ultimately where I stood on the issues I’d been reading about, going back and forth reading each side’s opinions and data, after listening to Jason Beghe’s long video by Mark Bunker and Marc Headley’s story from multiple sources online.
              I’m pretty well read on the issues, and my friend even downloaded some Scientology texts the other day for me and I’ve been having a gander at them too… because I felt a need to see some of it for myself without relying on someone else’s opinion of what is being said. I’ve listened to several LRon audios too. And I’ve tried really hard to find a genuine demonstration of ‘auditing’ so I can guage what really goes on and establish for myself whether it resembles hynotism or not. I’m still searching for a good vid of that. I asked at Marty’s for a vid or transcript of a real auditing session, one the person’s identifcation is shielded for privacy if necessary… but he just totally ignored me, didn’t even say he couldn’t do it, let alone offer to help in my research or direct me to an existing vid I hadn’t found yet.
              Over all I can’t find a shred of proof that your belief might be true or possible… but I’m still looking, it’s not a closed investigation. You’d be surprised just how much you can learn online…

            • Theo Sismanides

              Wow, well thank you very much for taking the time to explain to me. I really do. Now, I can see where you are coming from. Australia… lol… I am joking.

              Well, it’s good you are doing an investigation of your own. Marty wouldn’t answer. He is not that type of guy, no offense, I have been telling him many times to get some people to help him and he probably ignores some of the traffic for survival reasons. Still, it’s good you did reach him and I am sorry you didn’t get a vid on this. I can ask on some Facebook forums that I frequent if there is anything for what you are looking for.

              Well, yes… the Internet.. it’s gonna be the Waterloo of the mainstream Scientology, AKA the church as we, as you probably know, are people who left the church for obvious reasons. THe Internet it’s like a global mind.

              You know something? It’s my way to communicate to Mankind in a general sense, what we call in Scientology our 4th Channel (let’s say) of Existence. They are called the Dynamics.

              With all due respect, I don’t even know your name, I would simply tell you to look for yourself as to what is Scientology and read some books. I can send you some which are the proper gradient. If you skip the proper gradient or get into a lot of misunderstood words (I cannot stress that more with words) there is a danger to drop the material. It’s like if I start speaking Greek to everybody here, with the Greek keyboard, no one will be able to understand and soon they will drop me.

              I really want to thank you for writing all this to me. I don’t want to play is smart here with anyone. I am no smarter. There is many great people here. It’s just that I love people, I have been to America, not Australia, haha, but I do love people. I am a bit weird, ok, I admit, in that I still trust that even if we disagree we can talk in a civilised way. I have no benefit from Scientology except that I did help for some to have an honest and thorough look at it and then decide and certainly not under the authoritarian regime of David Miscavige, not even that of Hubbard’s as groups tend to be aberrative, mas in other words, and want to make their members mad, too. I am out of that game.

              Thank you very much.

            • Theo Sismanides

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-oGG9r_Fz8

              This is one independent production by a British Pakistani comedian to find out about God through scientology. I will be looking for more videos but this is an OK intro and was not done through the Church but through the Freezone or in other words the Independent Field.

            • Theo Sismanides

              http://www.scientology.org/faq/scientology-and-dianetics-auditing/what-is-auditing.html

              And this is the official church video about auditing. Well, it’s much more polished so maybe you can get a straight idea about auditing.

            • q-bird

              have you seen this one Enthralled? http://youtu.be/f4ALoW_yppI

            • EnthralledObserver

              Yes, thanks, I had seen that one. It’s a good description of auditing. I still want to see, not a demonstration of auditing, but a ‘real’ auditing session, or a transcript… i.e exactly what auditors and pc’s are saying and how they are saying it, how they are responding to one another. Preferably ‘see’ the emeter’s reactions to what and when too… and when the auditor declares the session ‘over’. I think this ought to become public. Because I don’t want to ‘try’ auditing or any other Scientology process… I want to determine if it’s dangerous or leading in any way… in essence I want to know how ferociously I ought to be fighting this practice.

      • hogarthian

        No, he left because it just wasn’t fun for him anymore. He loved his position and was good at it, and would probably still be doing it had the monster that (let’s be honest) he helped to create not turned on him in perfect Frankenstein fashion.

      • http://www.facebook.com/jeb.burton.50 Jeb Burton

        Theo, Marty created Miscavige. He showed him how to abuse these simple minded Scientologists and when it came back to him he got out. He cant take an honest review of his book and he is reverting back to his hitman days in the church in attacking critics of him and his book.

        • Theo Sismanides

          good, that’s your point of view. If you just happened to know Miscavige… all of us believed him in the beginning, then he became more and more of a tyrant. What should we do? Stay there or kill him?

          • EnthralledObserver

            Well then the whole lot of you are idiots. LRH put a fucking ‘baby’ in charge of an organisation? And you accepted it? Helped him cement control. He was fucking only in his early 20’s ffs and had absolutely NO real world experience and a violent history already… what the fuck were you all thinking – IDIOTS!

            • Theo Sismanides

              I guess from your throne you can judge everybody. Why don’t you step down a bit and have a look at real life? Then you will see how you are treated if you don’t have your throne’s power.

  • ze moo

    That Marty let any anti-marty, anti-clam comments on his blog is quite a change from the past. He lost his composure quite early in the book tour though. He continues to get more info out on the MIscavige past and that will have to do for now. When he really wants to sell books, he’ll tell more, I have no illusions that he’ll ever tell all.

    • Missionary Kid

      Maybe he’s getting lonely?

  • Poison Ivy

    Re: Hubbard and disconnection:

    “These policies,” Rathbun says, “laid the foundation for Scientology’s subsequent degeneration into an insular cult.”

    Well, it’s a step in the right direction, Marty.

    But I’d argue that what really laid the foundation for Scientology’s “degeneration into a cult” was Dianetics – the concept of auditing, and especially the mind-bleaching TR’s. Stealing people’s free-will through a series of exercises that induce hypnosis is the first step to controlling them. Oh – and remember what Hubbard said? “The only way to control someone is to lie to them.” Dianetics = lies (or to be kind, fanciful clouds of bullshit pulled straight out of LRH’s posterior.)

    Oh – and what about “fair game”? Oh, sorry. That’s a warrior’s job description.

    Disconnection didn’t “set the stage” for CO$ for becoming an insular cult. It was just part and parcel of the whole package.

    But at least Marty lays it at the feet of Hubbard, where it belongs.

    This is an amazing review, Tony. It saddens me that Marty has only come this far in his understanding of the facts of his past.

    But we humans have an amazing capacity for denial. We create entire worlds in our minds. I wonder if in Marty’s genetics (his family’s history of mental illness) there is some propensity for this type of black and white delusional thinking, even in a high-functioning, obviously intelligent person.

    Keep writing, Marty. Keep asking questions and don’t be afraid of the answers.
    The truth shall set you (and so many others) free, if you can ever get there.

    • Vistaril

      Well said and interesting questions.

      My take is that Marty is attempting an acceptable truth with his comments regarding disconnection. By focussing only on disconnection, Marty’s analysis skips right over the very reason that disconnection is practised. Sure, disconnection is indeed toxic, but disconnection is a component part of the even more toxic PTS/SP Doctrine. parts of which go back to the 1950s and without which Scientology cannot function. Marty’s statement also forwards by implication the lie that disconnection was cancelled and inserts the, albeit unsaid, assertion that Scientology was not a cult prior to that moment. This ignores the fact that even if disconnection was not practised (we know it was) the other equally grievous aspects of the PTS/SP Doctrine were being ruthlessly applied to critics, imagined enemies, and those who had left Scientology and dared to speak out or seek justice.

      I don’t think its possible to pick one thing and say it was the turning point for the degeneration of Scientology into a cult. Hubbard’s totalitarian nature was noted as early as 1950 when Dr J A Winter wrote his report. Immediately prior to and for some time after the initial publication of Dianetics in “Astounding Science Fiction” L Ron Hubbard was running his Allied Scientists of the World mail fraud scam. Bascially, he was a criminal living on the edge and staying just one step ahead of both his creditors and the authorities. Still, I support your contention that the turning point was Dianetics itself, but not the material contained within. Rather, it was the money which it generated and the realisation by L Ron Hubbard that, above all else, he had to hide that fact that he lied from start to finish about everything in the book. Imagine, for example, if it had become known in those first few years that L Ron Hubbard have never seen combat during the second world war and so could never have healed his injuries using his Dianetics. Game over.

      Everything L Ron Hubbard did following the publication of Dianetics was driven by his need to protect the flow of money by hiding the fact that it was all based on lies. You’ve got to give him credit for doing such a good job for so long. In fact, I think L Ron Hubbard deserves a place in the annals of history as, perhaps, the most successful criminal of the 20th Century.

      • DeElizabethan

        Luv the post. perhaps, the most successful criminal ‘Con man’ of the 20th Century.

  • Snake Plissken

    Marty never even met Hubbard, but somehow everyone is supposed to just accept him as the self-proclaimed expert on all things Hubbard.

    Even the people who personally knew Hubbard and directly worked with Hubbard are supposed to accept him as the self-proclaimed expert on all things Hubbard, because according to Marty they do not know what they are talking about either.

    I used to think he would finally wake up and free himself from Scientology, but he seems to be heading down the same road of Scientology induced insanity that all the other self proclaimed leaders of the Independent Scientology movement in the freezone went down before him.

    Have fun telepathically communicating with Ron’s Spaceship Matry. I hear it’s a real blast.

  • hogarthian

    Does Martyr have a proper job, at all?

    • http://www.facebook.com/jeb.burton.50 Jeb Burton

      One scientologist says that Marty only charged $2000 for an auditing session that he would of paid over $10,000 to the corporate church. So no, he doesnt have a proper job. But that is a ton of tax free money if he is auditing people.

      • hogarthian

        Well done Marty then eh? …. he’s clearly not as braindead as his ‘essays’ suggest that he is.

  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

    Instead of Warrior I would have preferred,

    Asshole, second class
    Scum
    Loathsome scum
    Maggot in waiting
    Waster of my life, destroyer of other lives
    High command reincarnate
    A guy who would believe anything
    Wish I thought of the Squirrel Busters
    Biggest nut on the family tree

  • And I don’t rent cars!

    Interesting… M. Rinder has a ‘Books’ section on his blog but he is deafeningly silent about “Memoirs of a Scientology Warrior” – yet M. Rathbun’s other books were all posted there.
    http://www.mikerindersblog.org/category/recommended-reading/

    Putting on my “tin hat” here:
    I just checked M. Rathbun’s blog and he has two posts dated May 29, 2013.

    This is the first May 29th post:
    http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/05/29/one-good-reason-to-read-scientology-warrior/

    “One Good Reason To Read ‘Scientology Warrior’

    Posted on May 29, 2013 by martyrathbun09 | 128 Comments

    Now for one reason you might want to read Memoirs of a Scientology Warrior. Tony Ortega hates the book, characterizing it as a love letter to the cult: Ortega’s take.

    Rattling both ends of the extreme is an indicia of hitting the sweet spot.

    Reference: The Great Middle Path Revisited.”

    And M. Rinder posted the following:
    “mrinder | May 29, 2013 at 8:55 am | Reply

    “Perfect!”

    And this is the post M. Rathun referred to at the bottom of his post:
    “Reference: The Great Middle Path Revisited.”
    http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2012/07/22/the-great-middle-path-revisited/

    “The Great Middle Path Revisited

    Posted on July 22, 2012 by martyrathbun09 | 320 Comments

    For those new to the blog, I recommend an essay I posted almost three years ago titled The Great Middle Path redux. I discussed then the idea that the extreme sides of the Scientology spectrum in many ways reflect one another. The zealots on the Miscavige side and the ‘critics’ on the ‘book burner’ side nurture one another as convenient evils to make life combative enough to be interesting.

    I once heard a pundit remark that probably the most straight, truthful news from the Middle East comes from the Al Jazeera news agency. He reckoned that based on an objective study of international news reportage on the region over a several year period. He cited as corroboration for that analysis the fact that Al Jazeera was the only news outfit in history to be bombed by both of the opposing sides of a military conflict.

    If you check out the reader reviews on Amazon books for What Is Wrong With Scientology you will see that most who care to comment express strong feelings one way or the other about the book. A lot of people seem to either hate it or love it. Add to the mix both extremes of the Scientology spectrum. On the one side are the anti-Marty sites, authored and edited by David Miscavige. On the other side is the most prominent and persistent of Scientology ridiculers, Tony Ortega at the Village Voice.

    The “church” of Scientology writes the following about What is Wrong With Scientology?:

    He is now taking it upon himself to tell all who will listen “what is wrong with Scientology.” Real Scientologists recognize these interpretations as an effort to dilute, disperse, and render unworkable the truths and principles of Scientology Technology which is, after all is said and done, one of Rathbun’s primary destructive goals – to make Scientology unattainable by scattering it to the wind. And real Scientologists know that the bulk of Rathbun’s latest effort is comprised of what L. Ron Hubbard himself carefully specified as Suppressive Acts, intended to harm others.

    On the other extreme Tony Ortega, who has spent seventeen years attempting to make nothing of Scientology, calls What Is Wrong With Scientology?: a ‘predictable mass of Hubbard apologetics’, a ‘bundle of contradictions’, [the apologies are for a religion that is] ‘permeated with sickness’, ‘expensive malarky’, [attempts to pass off] ‘Eastern woo woo as ‘scientific certainty’, and the defense is a bunch of ‘new age happy talk.’

    It reads to me like a shade of the Al Jazeera effect.

    On the one hand I am accused on attempting to destroy everything L. Ron Hubbard stood for.

    On the other hand, I am accused of being Hubbard’s greatest defender.

    Those who have read the book and have followed the blog for long might understand why this reaction from the extremes pleases me. It makes me feel like I must have hit the ball right in the sweet spot.”

    And this is M. Rathbun’s second post of May 29:
    http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/05/29/scientology-warrior-now-on-kindle/

    “Scientology Warrior’ Now On Kindle

    Posted on May 29, 2013 by martyrathbun09 | 44 Comments

    The book that the Scientology critic cult is attempting to censor more vigorously than the church of Scientology is now available in Kindle format, “Memoirs of a Scientology Warrior” on Kindle.”

    I suspect M. Rathbun’s second post of May 29th is meant to sweeten up and expand the “sweet spot” even further and please himself even more – the cat is licking his whiskers now…

    He knows.. and gloats… that we Bunkerites (you know, we in the Ortega Cult) have now unwittingly increased his stats/book sales and is further inflaming the reaction from the “extremes” by intentionally goading his “critics” with the word “CENSOR” to create more controversy, knowing that inciting controversy and scandal is considered “good” marketing strategy these days? (By what I consider to be unethical and amoral people. You know, like the sociopaths of this world.)

    At this point in my conspiracy theorizing, I wonder if ‘kindly’ sending Tony an advance copy might not have been part of his strategy as well…

    Damn! Double Damn!!

    And I suspect M. Rinder is in on it judging by his one word response, “Perfect!” to M. Rathbun’s “…why this reaction from the extremes pleases me. It makes me feel like I must have hit the ball right in the sweet spot.”

    OK, ‘tin hat off.’

    P.S. If we formed a band, would “The Extremes” be a good name? And if the ‘anti-critics’, from an unnamed blog, formed a band, would “The Sociopaths” fill a stadium? But I digress…

    P.S. Hope the reference links are working. Disqus is not very cooperative – the links become plain text and then hyperlinks, then back to plain text… then back to……

    In any case, it really doesn’t matter as I copied and pasted all the text the links referred to for readers’ convenience.

    • hogarthian

      “For those new to the blog, I recommend an essay I posted almost three years ago titled The Great Middle Path redux”……..

      I’ll bet, in person, that he is absolutely insufferable.

  • dbloch7986

    More Scientology for you folks. This is why Tony dedicates his life to destroying this cult and why I am not only against the CHURCH of Scientology, but also Scientology itself:

    “Hindered because you were a faggot, your words not mine, and how LRH taught you were evil. Wow.

    Derek, clearly you love the victim role and now need psych drugs to actually “deal with” your own perceived dilemmas. It is too bad you got no real help, but then again, perhaps you did and perceived that as evil too.”

    This is the shit I had to put up with from age 6 through 26. Virtually every single day.

    • http://www.facebook.com/kim.obrien.775 Kim O’Brien

      No more …no more . We love you

    • Snake Plissken

      Did Marty actually say “Derek, clearly you love the victim role”?, Seriously?

      The guy who was comparing himself to Nelson Mandela when he got tossed into a New Orleans’ Jail Cell to sober up, is saying someone other than himself loves the role of victim?

      Delusional doesn’t even begin to describe the self proclaimed warrior of batshit crazy

      I bet Marty doesn’t even realize that he is subconsciously referring to himself when he makes comments such as these.

      • dbloch7986

        Marty didn’t say it, but you hit the nail on the head with the commenter who did.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Shake. This. Crap. Off.

      There are real victims, and then there are those who play the victim card. You are the real deal– and you are moving through this with as much grace, dignity and strength you can muster.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Derek? Was this crap from Marty’s blog?

      • dbloch7986

        Yes, but not from Marty himself.

        This is typical Scientology speak. Blame the victim mentality runs rampant in people who are programmed by Hubbard.

        • tetloj

          I caught a bit of that Derek (not in real time). Be proud of the way you conducted yourself there. There is a reason Scientologists are so reviled.

          • tetloj

            And clearly you can take the person out of Scientology but you can’t always take Scientology out of the person.

  • Mr. Fabulous

    No surprise to see Marty butthurt about your review, and even less of a surprise to see Mike Rinder’s tongue lodged firmly up Marty’s backside in reply to his rebuke towards your review on his Blog.

    • DeElizabethan

      Actually I was a bit surprised. Guess he’s in on the game.

  • Dorothy Gale

    Tony Ortega reports the straight dope, therefore I listen to him. I haven’t read any of Marty’s books because I have more interesting and important things to read. So I get my information about Marty’s books from others who have read them, whom I respect, like TO for example. After reading TO’s review of the book, (and Jeff Hawkins recent comment) it sounds like Marty writes these books for the purpose of impressing the other people in his group (Indies) and retaining his status as defender of LRon and spearhead or catalyst of their “reform” movement, which btw is not about reforming scientology, but about reforming Dave Miscavige. For Marty it’s not about introspection or catharsis or setting the record straight or any of these reasons. That is not what scientologists find important. It’s about seeing himself as this larger than life character who carries the torch for LRon to this day. That’s what Independents want and that in essence is what scientology is really all about, whether you are a churchie or an independent: for both of these (follower type) groups, LRon is the official Guru both groups follow and therefore LRon’s reputation must not be tarnished. Dave Miscavige accomplishes that task through high priced attorneys and destroying enemies (including anyone with dirt on LRon, like Gerry Armstrong). Marty accomplishes it through writing “memoirs” with huge gaping holes (a form of misinformation in itself). To that extent these two men are both on the same page philosophically, but their methods of accomplishing “Guru Protection” are different. Both feel they are entitled to their positions in their respective movements: so it sounds like they are two different flavors of the same desert.

    • DeElizabethan

      Really like your analogy of flavors. Spot on!

      2nd day and still on this post, haven’t yet got the new one read yet.
      Fascinating and fun too. Lots of truth in opinions coming out.

  • Eric Jordan

    People that practice Dark Magic and people that practice Buddhism both believe everything comes full circle. I hope Rathbun will get what he deserves if he hasn’t already.

    • Mr. Fabulous

      Marty is living proof what following Scientology and Ronny The Racist to the letter can do for you, i.e. make you an outcast, a liar, a bully, a laughing stock, a criminal, a narcissist, and a total jerk.

  • theoracle

    Lovely blood bath. I can smell the metal in the air. The frenzy here to harm attack suppress degrade and fair game another person under the banner of “civil rights” and “human rights” was impressive.

    On par with the Church of Scientology and the fanatics in their efforts to to harm attack suppress degrade and fair game other people under the banner of “Love for L. Ron Hubbard” and “Religion”.

    Both groups are using the same methods of livingness to forward their own wants and needs and purposes. It is as if they are hung in mirror upon one another. Balanced against one another with an overwhelming and obsessive purpose to destroy.

    The illusion is that the groups are opposite, but the purposes and methods, are identical.

    Per the laws of magnetism, it makes perfect reason you are stuck together against one another.

    Per the laws of magic, it smell of perfect harmony, like natural justice. That you remain focused on destroying a similar entity. And unmocking one another.

    It is as if, some natural force or wind combines the two groups to eliminate one another. Some kind of natural mercy that floats through the atmosphere. To permit those that seek to destroy, work their energies on one another.

    So that those who wish to survive and create, can have more space.

    The illusion is that the wind is think with black magic. But it’s just a little ball floating about the atmosphere making nothing of itself, digesting it’s own energy, and being expelled through the digestive system of a universe that was built to support the more creative.

    Absolutely fascinating. Like watching a tornado spin itself out of the atmosphere.

    • dbloch7986

      I think you got lost somewhere in there because your point didn’t get across. Other than the allusion to an illusion of dichotomy. In that case you are accurate, however you are opting to reflect your own feelings on others instead of recognizing them as your own.

    • SFFrog

      Sorry, to which comment are you replying?

      • DeElizabethan

        I think she was giving her personal evaluation or synopsis of the whole scene. I thought is rather creative.

        • SFFrog

          I know, though I was trying to draw some type of coherent statement out of her.
          I suspect it may have just been a drive-by comment, though.

          • DeElizabethan

            LOL! I think she just dropped by for that too.

    • DeElizabethan

      Enjoyed your spin.

    • hogarthian

      Reading the above ‘cirque du soleil’ of words is a bit like watching this:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3I_Ds2ytz4o

      • DeElizabethan

        He, he, that was Neat!

        • hogarthian

          Well, I thought so 😉

    • Yeppir

      Appears mental.

    • And I don’t rent cars!

      Welcome Oracle. Sit and rest a while. You must be out of breath running over here at the smell of metal in the air and of blood! Imagine your panic and distress. Poor you, I’m sure you thought your services were needed and a touch assist would be necessary. Can I get you a glass of water, some tea, … anything that will soothe your overwrought nerves? Are you feeling a little peckish? How about a fresh baked cookie to go with your beverage before you return to your home? Don’t worry, there isn’t a problem here. It’s called “Freedom of Speech”, my dear Mr?/Ms? Oracle. You are familiar with that concept, are you not? Oh, excuse me, you might not be an American and would not know about this fundamental, Constitutional right and priviledge.

      In any case, please let me tell you that that I find your description of what is going on between the C of S and M. Rathbun and his fellow Independents to be quite interesting and eloquent. I am only disappointed that you have mistakenly posted your comments on the wrong blog. Your confusion is understandable as readers oftentimes go back and forth reading and many blogs and forums and mean to post on one but ending up posting on another – especially as Disqus is being termpermental these days – as are some commenters, I might add.

      For your convenience, I will give you the link you meant to post at: http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/

      • DeElizabethan

        Absolutely. Luv it. Hope to see it over there, if I ever get a chance.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      You’re funny.

    • Espiando

      What can I say? We’re just that damn good. And we’re a damn sight better than you people are, because we don’t rely on the rabid ramblings of a shit science-fiction and pulp author to be as we are. We’re just obscene, lawless, hideous, dangerous, dirty, violent, and young. And we’re proud of it, Scilon.

      Piss off.

      • aquaclara

        “And we’re proud of it.”Thank you!

    • Captain Howdy

      You lost me at “livingness”, ya fucking hippie.

    • Snuzey

      I counted about 17 metaphors. Although I did struggle to count them since one went into another.

      Reading that back I’m sure you are feeling like you’re pissing in the wind…. or flogging a dead horse…. or maybe you feel like you have a bad case of verbal diarrhoea. Ness. The Ness bit does it away a bit.

      But 10/10 for creativity. That would be mind-blowing if I was tripping.

      • theoracle

        I am easy to find. You want to do something constructive ABOUT ME? Come on over to my place. Get in my face and off your little plastic keyboard. Or, send me your addy. You want to take on and lead? You can lead the people to truth? I am a burden? You owe it to your following to get up in my face and handle me. Come on and do it. I will make myself available for you to handle me. Anywhere, anytime. At your disposal.

  • Unex Skcus

    Marty Rathbun, the “Whitewash Warrior”?

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Welcome, Mr. Sdrawkcab.

      I think.

      • tetloj

        never noticed that before…

  • Xique

    God would I find this book depressing, what with his mother jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge, his brothers institutionalized, one dead, and the murder of a young woman in the streets of LA , blood splattered all over him, and we haven’t even begun. And to think the reader has to suffer through the far fetched , far out, and fanatical ” Farsec” Fairytale, why that is just too much to ask. I won’t do it!

  • loulai

    I give Marty a lot of credit for the holes he is blasting in the side of the Cult prison. Maybe he will one day acknowledge publicly and fully the harm he caused. Maybe he won’t. But without him Scientology would have remained much stronger than it is today. He helped Debbie Cook. He helped the Headleys. He helped many others without demanding anything much in return. He won’t ever be “perfect” and neither will any of us.

    • Xique

      Good point

    • SFFrog

      I generally think he should be defended when attacked by the CoS, praised when he does something praiseworthy and criticized when he does something odious.

      People expressed disappointment that his book wasn’t what they hoped it was and his response was odious and therefore criticism is appropriate. He has the right to be a dick but not to do so without being called out on it.

      • loulai

        You are right in so far as no one was actually trying to censor his book. So his remark was a little over the top. On the other hand the remark is a great marketing technique and that may be how it was really intended. Whatever one thinks of his comment, this man is doing major heavy lifting in terms of helping others get over the wall and tearing down the walls at the same time. Given what we know about Scientology intimidation tactics I give him major props. Not many people are willing to get on the front line and stay there in the face of relentless fire. So I guess I’m inclined to give him to concede him some leeway in recognition of his place on the front line.

  • KNMF

    Marty was radicalized by a cult. Isn’t it romantic.

  • Snuzey

    From an outside and completely unconnected observer I actually feel quite sad and sorry for Marty Rathbun. Even sadder is considering his past (which I had no idea about) I doubt he will ever have the means to understand himself or what he has been through. I only really feel sorry for him, and in some ways just preaching (albeit misguidedly) what he believes in sounds like the least tragic thing he could be getting up to with the rest of his life. My fear is he will go mad if he doesnt hold onto those last rays of Hubbard hope. He will go to his grave with Hubbard in his heart. Some people you can’t help. I say just let him be.

    Unless you want him to lose his mind of course, which some might suggest would be suitable punishment for what he has got up to in his past! And maybe if he really holds Hubbard dear, he should follow in his footsteps, not unlike Miscavige, just in a slightly different direction. Slow transition into mental oblivion.

    How depressing. I thank my lucky stars every day that I’m not as ‘intelligent’ as him! Phew.

    • theoracle

      Oh yes, you are from the outside and objective, you have NO interests whatsoever other than the same one Jesus might have had. You are holy and qualified in an nonobjective way, yet here to condemn Marty Rathbun. Yes you will find people to fall at your feet. Take them on, own thank you, own them. You do own those that you inherit. You, the almighty, here to set it all straight. Please do leave a forwarding address? Because your followers can not follow you unless you leave one. How do we stay in touch after your sermon? Google “Snuzey”/

      • theoracle

        You, summon me up with your power. I will appear. I will answer your summons. Anytime, anywhere, to set this straight for your people. At your disposal.

  • Jonathan Cummings

    I cannot understand how Marty, who know the truth about LRH being a liar, con-artist, drug addict, etc…. still practices any of the so called tech. I hope some day soon he comes out and admits that all the ramblings of LRH are crap, and that he also comes clean about his role in the abuses that have taken place with the CO$! Until then I hope people refrain from buying his books!

    • theoracle

      “I cannot understand” and everyone else has to pay for it. Except me. I do not owe you anything. Either does anyone else. Your continuous begging that others owe you for having a life, living and making choices is third rate income. “pay me for living…pay me for living…you owe me for living…” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY8AUVZ3y0s

      • theoracle

        “I do not owe you anything because you, your weapon and protection is. “I don’t UNDERSTAND, I don’t understand. I don’t undertsand, ”

        You understood enough until you had to take some responsibility. Right? And then you suddenly did not understand. Go run this bullshit on someone that has vested interests. How convenient (and ancient) to “not undertstand.”. May the universe deliver what is wanted and needed from you, in the “want to understand” universe, you sorry mother fucker.

  • CharleneHux

    There are some details you should all know re the Joe & Diane Coletto murder/suicide. I was there – though I did not personally witness the shooting, I was one of the few staff working in Estates at the complex at that time.
    Re the Coletto murder/suicide – Joe Coletto had blown from the RPF WEEKS earlier and was known to be seen around the complex looking for Diane. He was very upset that Diane had been talked into divorcing him and threatened to kill her.

    The police were never notified in those weeks. Joe was staying at a hotel just around the corner from the complex and could have been picked up easily. That alone would have saved two lives.

    But no, it was done the “Scientology way”.

    Mark (Marty) Rathbun was a green SO member. He had been assigned to pick up Diane Coletto from work and take her home to her berthing (at the Hollywood Inn berthing). He was assigned to keep her safe, to keep her away from Joe. He was NEW. He was explicitly told NOT to put her at risk or go after Joe.

    Mark had different ideas. He spent those weeks driving S L O W L Y around the blocks there, hoping to catch Joe personally, using Diane as bait.

    Mark put Diane’s life at risk unnecessarily and she was murdered.

    He was no hero then and he’s no hero now. He’s just a jerk with a big ego that doesn’t mind putting others at risk to make a name for himself.

    • Michael Leonard Tilse

      OMG! That really does change the color of Rathbun’s story! If he was using her as bait, then he actually had a huge part in CAUSING Diane’s death.

      Jerk doesn’t describe it. I’d use a much stronger term.

      • theoracle

        You swallowed THAT bait pretty fast.

        • Michael Leonard Tilse

          Well, maybe it is bait, but it has the echo of some things I know about that time. I’m divided. As Tony says: “Where’s the dox?” Or at least corroborating testimony from people there at the time. I do understand that what she says tends to fit into my reading of Marty. I would hope I’m wrong.

          • theoracle

            Well, that is reasonable thinking. I would say , Where is the dox on CharleneHux ? Marty is straight up with his name and whereabouts. Can I see Charlene’s identity verification and some evidence this person worked in estates? Who is this witness? That matters too, to a thinking rational person.

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              I knew her.

            • CharleneHux

              Thanks, MIchael. <3 I'm in Australia now, btw. You?

            • CharleneHux

              How about providing a few vids of you, Oracle, that we can all see?
              Mine are online and have been for years. Hundreds of people know me personally. Nice try, but you are the one who is questionable here, not me.

              I’ve also been on network television personally – 3 times – stating the horrors of the Church of Scientology.

              What have you done to expose the cult lately?

            • CharleneHux

              Oh shut up already and LURK MOAR. If you read my earlier posts past he first 5 words, I already said my name is not CHARLENE HUX. Most people here know who I am, where I live and what I look like. Do your own research. You bore me.

          • CharleneHux

            Firsthand Dox are tough, since Jeff Porter is still in, but there are some.
            Jeff’s statement would be with the original police investigation. So would Andre Tabayoyon’s and the other security guard’s report.

            Andre Tabayoyon’s account of the incident was online for years and probably still is – and it’s a lot different than Mark’s version. Andre is a firsthand witness.
            Jesse Prince’s account also confirms that Joe/John Coletto had been on the RPF and had blown the RPF weeks prior to the shooting and that while on the RPF, Diane was convinced to divorce him while there. Jesse’s account is firsthand regarding Joe, second hand regarding Diane’s murder. His is also available online.
            So you want these dox? Google is your friend and you can also do your own investigating. I was there, I spoke to Jeff and the other security guard, as well as Andre and Jesse Prince, so I’m satisfied I know the truth. You are the one who wants to believe every word Marty says.

            The police investigators at the time would have taken statements from other individuals, and that would have included Andre and Jeff. It would be good to see those statements.

            There should be others around to testify that Joe had blown the RPF weeks earlier and had been seen around the complex.
            It is in the police investigation itself that Joe had been staying at a hotel around the corner. The security guys hadn’t known this until the police found out, but had suspected as much.

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              Thanks! I know that when your comment first appeared, to some it seemed like an anonymous person saying bad things about someone else without giving any references that could be checked. Without those kinds of things it seemed not creditable and to just believe a substantial shift in that story would not be wise. To me it had some specific points that I was familiar with since I had been in estates and the EPF and had known some of these people. So, I gave it some credence where others might not. With the additional information I hope this becomes an Official story by Tony where he pulls together the background stuff, as he is so good at.

              As this conversation has continued, it is obvious that you were there and are not anonymous and have specific reasons why you tell this story and relate how you got this viewpoint and from who. That makes it something that is open to research and investigation. I had viewed your videos some time ago when they went up on youtube and you talking about Rudi was a memory trigger. I knew Rudi and Pam who he married when were were on the EPF and you too. I track pretty well with everything I knew about that you cover in your videos. I didn’t hear anything that seemed wrong. A lot of course I didn’t know because I was either away in Idaho late ’78 and most of ’79 and left the s.o. in Feb ’80. (and came back for about 3 months in ’84 at SMI Int. (Also recruited by Vic Selza)

              You spent a lot more time in the s.o. than I did, had a much broader experience. But we knew a lot of the same people. I Supervised (without being an official course supervisor), for Paige in the CESO (Cedars Estates Service Org) courseroom in late ’79, early ’80.

              A lot of my memories of my Sea Org days are only recalled by specific triggers. Otherwise it is a blur and hard to remember specific people who did different things, unless I was closely involved for a period of time. There were lots on the EPF, over 200 at some time.

              I too would love to catch up with you and chat. You can email me at my everybody knows email address, draemr@draemr.com or find me on facebook. Maybe I can do a better job of connecting this time.

            • CharleneHux

              :) Oh it would be so nice to catch up with you!

              Michael, thanks for taking the time to explain why the skepticism from some. I agree, Marty’s version is far different than what I presented here, but if one knows Jesse, Andre and the others involved and has read the others’ stories, Marty’s is a pretty piss-poor attempt to brag about something he badly mishandled.

              That upsets me and that’s why I wrote that. The incident upset me at the time. I cried for both Diane and Joe and so did many others. The whole thing makes more sense if you understand that Joe wanted Diane back so badly, he’d take her at gunpoint if necessary. Joe thought Diane was the best thing that ever happened to him and she probably was. He had a psychotic break on the RPF. Physically rushing at him was probably the worst handling one could take.

              Hearing/reading Mark/Marty BRAG about this just upsets me all over again.

              You might remember some of my background, Michael. My father was a police investigator and a good one. He’d often told stories of talking violent criminals out of things, or distracting them so they could be disarmed.

              Marty never admits when he’s done something wrong. This time, he made a horrible mistake. He didn’t pull the trigger and to my knowledge, he’s never killed anyone, but he messed up here and people died – and that’s nothing to brag about.

              I don’t like Marty. Not when I first met him, but especially after I heard about this incident back then.

              Afterwards, Marty was sent uplines because he was a wreck. He got a lot of repair auditing in the GO and was kept out of the public eye so nobody would talk about this with him. It wasn’t the promotion he made it out to be. Marty was nobody special in the SO until DM came along. Whether Marty completely fabricated the story of L Ron requesting him or whether someone just said this to get Mark/Marty out of the public eye afterwards is still a question, but since he never met L Ron Hubbard, I call bullshit on that part, too.

              Marty is about bullshit and I think people have the right to know when he is full of shit.

            • DeElizabethan

              Charlene, after reading your comments I just want to tell you how much I admire you and your standing/speaking up for the truth.

              I too do not like at all when exes seem to enjoy what they did and still have the OSA viewpoint as opposed to being contrite, responsible or humble in realizing they hurt people in some ways. Pisses me off, but then that is one way I can tell if someone is really out of the bubble in their head.
              So thank you and look forward to reading more from you.

      • CharleneHux

        Yeh. That’s how I felt about it when the security guys told me.

        I never cared much for Jeff Porter, but I believe him. Jeff was Mark’s boss, but more than that, he was assigned to “look after” Mark and Jeff was extremely protective of him. Jeff’s success and entry into the GO depended on Mark. Mark joined the GO directly, but Jeff Porter was in Estates and had an application in process. If Mark spoke well of him and he did a good job with Mark, this was Jeff’s “in”, which he wanted very much. He looked at Mark like his kid brother and wouldn’t say a word against him unless it were absolutely necessary and true.

        Jeff thought what Mark did was foolhardy and idiotic and that was the general consensus of the security guards. Jeff also said he knocked down or tripped Mark at one point when John Coletto had threatened to shoot him and Mark ignored the gun as if it wasn’t there and went after him anyway.

        Jeff Porter did make it into the GO. Unfortunately, he is still in the SO somewhere. :(

        There was another security guard, with which I was close friends at the time. He wishes not to be publicly named but left scn many years ago.

    • Michael Leonard Tilse

      So, If you were in estates, you must have known Paige. Do you remember her last name at the time and what her Post was? I’m curious if you knew me, since I was around then.

      • CharleneHux

        Of COURSE I remember Paige! Her last name was Kuhn and her husband’s name was Richard. But they were never actually married (did you know that?) She told me once they had lived together over 9 years and in Calif at that time, that made them married. Paige was always the Senior C/S, but she was also often the Qual Sec of our little Pac Training Org (that trained the EPF).
        I remember you, too, Michael. You were always a good guy. Remember me? SHEILA? (My real name is NOT Charlene Huxtable, lol…)

        • Michael Leonard Tilse

          I do remember you. I was away in Idaho during the Diane/Joe Colleto murder/suicide. I think I know who the security guard you speak of was.

          Yes, Paige Kuhn and Richard. I thought they had a Sea Org marriage, but they might never have gotten a marriage license or recorded it. Quite common back then. I almost got married to Mary Flagler when I was on the EPF, we didn’t have a license either. (I really screwed that up)

          When I came back in later 1979 to work for Paige I started supervising in her Estates Courseroom. I knew Beth and Joe, they were in the Sea Org, later they were at LA Org.

          I really liked Paige. I hope she eventually gets out.

          You had quite the story, as we all did.

          • CharleneHux

            Paige & Richard were out for a while. I didn’t know they went back in. I haven’t seen either of them since those early years.
            They were both wonderful. Paige, especially.
            I ended up at AOLA in 1979, so missed when you were course supervisor. Back in ’77-’78, I was a wordclearer there, remember?

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              Yea, Paige last at AOLA, married to Steve Kemper last I knew. She was my c/s in 1998 or so. Richard was at Int in Gold by then. I don’t know what happened to their son Tarl. I really liked Paige to, she was a very caring person. She had been in one of the batches recruited to deliver Super Power at Int or Clearwater and had bailed out of that back to AOLA. I have know idea what might have happened to here after that though Kristi Watcher’s site shows some course completion around 2006, I think. Richard was very gung-ho, with not very good filters, I think. A likable guy though.

              I do remember you, not as clearly as I would like, but definitely. I didn’t get much regular W/Cing with you, I was mostly in Howard Becker’s special basic study group for a lot of that.

            • CharleneHux

              Oh wow, Paige ended up at AOLA and married Steve Kemper? He was a nice guy, too, but yeh, Paige had a huge heart – heaps of compassion. I loved her to bits, too.
              I remember Howard Becker! Wow, I forgot all about him until you mentioned it.
              Michael, I’ll drop you an email and catch up with you later today. <3 Nice to see you. It really made me smile to see your name here, you know. X X X Sheila

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              thanks! Yea, I liked a lot of people back then. Seemed a great adventure at the time, cloak and dagger, save the universe!

              Btw: checked my email and didn’t see anything. Thanks for the Xs. Michael

            • CharleneHux

              Can I admit I’m a bit nervous and excited to be in touch again after all this time? Srsly. I’m more shy than you know.
              I want to put together a good letter for you, Michael, so please don’t rush me. It must be worthy, you know. I’ll write you in the next day or two, k? You were a good friend and I like to think we will always be good friends. <3 Love to you, Sheila

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              K. FWIW: I’m shy too. No rush, just wondered if it got lost somewhere.:-)

            • CharleneHux

              Just sent you a friend request on Facebook. :)

        • Michael Leonard Tilse

          You know I had a crush on you, right? But I was 25 to your 17…….

          • CharleneHux

            😀 Yeh, I knew. Did you know the crush was mutual?

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              Really?!!! Wow. See, there is this thing about me, I’m just figuring it out now, in my 50’s. I think I’m a little Asperger’s. I don’t pick up on social cues, subtle expressions of interest, that kind of thing. Typically, its weeks later when I remember some conversation with someone and I realize…OH!! she was interested!! Doh!!! People think I don’t care or I’m not interested or something, when It’s just I didn’t see it at all. And of course there is that self-image thing, where I don’t see myself as attractive to others and seem clueless about the whole dating/meeting/connecting thing.

              So, I never realized you had a crush, or that you knew I had a crush. Ah, so much passes us by….

              I’m belatedly flattered that you did. Makes me smile.

        • Warrior

          I remember you, Sheila. Another guy who had a crush on you is David Layne (RIP).

    • theoracle

      But you didn’t notify the police did you? You didn’t contact the police to let them know someone’s life was in danger. So it would seem that you too, put Diane’s life at risk unnecessarily and she was murdered. Right? Perhaps if you had contacted the police or stepped forward if you knew someone was being used as “bait”, things might have been different. But here you are, saying YOU were fully aware someone was being used as bait, and someone’s life was in danger, and you did nothing yourself. And it is all someone else’s fault. YOU did nothing to prevent it, but everyone else was supposed to. How comfy! You weren’t even in the position to have a gun put to your head and the trigger pulled. But you state you knew perfectly well all of the conditions and who’s fault it really is that someone else got murdered. And now that the dust has settled, and you are comfy behind a keyboard, now you want to make yourself MATTER to others, with the “Marty killed someone” campaign.

      • theoracle

        Barf!

      • CharleneHux

        No, I didn’t go to the police. I was a 16 year old Sea Org member and legally, a runaway (not that something like that would ever stop the Church of Scientology from recruiting a minor without parental permission)
        Your comment makes me laugh. Did you even read what I wrote, or just the first few words?
        I said Marty’s assignment was to get Diane home safely and not to try to catch Joe.
        I said – Marty SLOWLY DROVE DIANE AROUND THE BLOCK OF THE COMPLEX FOR WEEKS HOPING TO CATCH JOE, USING DIANE AS BAIT (knowing Joe had a gun, had threatened Diane’s life, and not having a gun of his own).
        Now, somehow, you equate a teenage girl who had knowledge that Joe blew from the RPF weeks ago, who had knowledge that Marty was assigned to protect Diane, a girl who was told by the security guards the inside story of what happened within hours of the shooting – as being RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR LOSING THEIR LIVES.
        You also equate someone – Mark/Marty – who knowingly placed Diane in physical danger by slowly driving her around for WEEKS where Joe was last seen with a gun to try to catch Joe on his own – as having NO responsibility for what he did, or for placing Diane at risk, but me, the teenage girl sucked into a cult who heard about it afterward was responsible?
        Excuse me, but with your line of thinking, that makes you the same as a murderer too, because you found out afterwards.

        • theoracle

          You are the one here suggesting who is responsible and you are pushing it all Marty.

          That is simple injustice. There are plenty of people around who want to harm attack and suppress Scientologists with enthusiasm. There are a lot of loose cannons running around calling themselves Scientologists. And the people annoyed and inconvenienced by them are not stupid people. In fact, most of them are pretty intelligent and make a lot of good points. I seriously doubt many, if any, will buy into your form of justice and prosecution here. I doubt you were clocking Marty’s speed limit and knew what his intentions were or what his purpose was. The fact that you say this went on for weeks is a blatant false report . Yet you attest to such. All humans abhor injustice. This is something that transcends Scientology. No matter how much people like to argue about religion and politics, they seldom care to dabble in or contribute to heavy injustices. Because injustice recoils on those that dabble in it. And Karma is universal knowledge. That you intentionally alter is facts, and dub in your own ideas with the purpose, to so degrade and harm another is kind of fucking spooky. Only lower below when you elaborate do you say this was gossip you heard from someone else. AFTER you have presented it as fact. I have a right to reject this form of social intercourse. It is called injustice. The fucking Christians tried to sort this out when the ten commandments were established to ease social intercourse. It is advised “Do Not Bear False Witness”. When people can’t think with the ten commandments it is doubtful they can think with other forms of reason or advice.

          • CharleneHux

            You are in NO position to state whose report is true or false as you were not there. You are picking and choosing what to believe. You are absolutely clueless and base ALL your info on Marty’s trumped up “hero” fiction story. That’s it – cover your eyes and shut your ears and don’t listen to anything you don’t want to believe.
            Mark/Marty simply wanted to catch Joe. The fact this placed Diane at risk and was a foolhardy thing to do is my opinion and the opinion of the security guards (who WERE there) at the time. WHY Marty did this is not for me to decide.
            The facts we DO agree on are:
            Mark Rathbun went after Joe like a bat out of hell and ran after him after he took Diane at gunpoint. Joe shot Diane during the scuffle with Mark and Joe was later found dead from suicide.
            Two OTHER witnesses (one being Jeff Porter) said that Joe said he “just wanted to talk to her” and Diane agreed to this and told them not to worry or follow. (He had a gun to her, though – my impression from Jeff’s account was that she thought she was in a better position to handle Joe, having been married to him for years, than anyone else and didn’t want anyone else hurt.)
            Jeff Porter had already tripped or knocked down Mark once to keep him from getting shot by Joe but Mark got up again and still went after him. Mark/Marty remembers this part incorrectly, apparently not knowing who knocked him down.
            Here’s another fact: Heroes save people. Their actions don’t result in murders and deaths. It was stupid to race after a madman with a gun and this is NOT what any trained police officer would have done. It was the WRONG ACTION.
            I suspect Jeff Porter was trying to get the police there but had to go through a few hoops to get approval from COS and by then, it was too late.
            If anyone was a hero here, it was DIANE. Diane was willing to deal with Joe personally rather than have him shoot or hurt anyone else and it makes me very, VERY angry that her self-sacrificing words and statements were omitted entirely from Mark’s version and instead, he spun this to make himself look as good as possible. What he did was stupid to an outrageous degree, but I don’t disagree he was (at the end) trying to save Diane. He should never have tried to catch Joe in the first place by driving around the complex with her to draw him out.

    • q-bird

      hell of a deal CharleneHux. A sick situation all ’round. No – he is no hero, not then, not now.

      Thank you for this insider perspective.

      and you? I’ve never seen you post here before… are you doing all right Kiddo? Are you out of the organization? I just wonder is all.

      • CharleneHux

        Heya q-bird. Thanks, but I’ve been out since 1987 after nearly 9 years in the Sea Org and have nothing to do with scn other than protesting abuses. I am Gottabrain on WWP. My history is pretty well documented and vids on YouTube under my own name. This is info I’ve posted on ESMB in the past.

    • Warrior

      Joe Colletto? I never heard him called that name. His name is John.

  • theoracle

    What I would like to know is where and who is “Mary Mccdonell” or “mary Mcdonell” AKA ~ Mary McConnell, my nom de plume?

    Who posts on ESMB and has been stalking me and publicly declaring me insane while promoting herself as a “Christain”? I want this evil little bitch or bastard that has been hiding behind some nickname while outing me. To come forward and take real responsibility for being a person and knowing. I want the name and address of this “brave warrior” who has been knocking me in the dirt. I want this person to back up their accusations. She /he evaluates Me and Marty and is willing to out me under a false name. I think she / he is right. I want to help she / prove it. Please encourage this “brave soul” who puts them self out so far to undermine others to contact me directly so we can meet face to face. I want that figure in front of me to confront me and I want it on video. Mary, come on, reveal yourself and the source of all of these attacks. Step on out. I am willing if you are willing. I am here. Bring it on. Send me your address so I can face this attack and threat. You want everyone to know who I am, help us know who YOU are. I am all the way willing to meet for a one on one video interview by an independent terminal , of your choice, and be interviewed on camera.Let’s get it on.

    • theoracle

      Mary, thirty minutes have gone by and I have not yet heard from your wanting to face me with the video of your choice, people of your choice, facing me off in person. I am laying all of the power within your hands. What is your back off? I am here! I will show up anytime anywhere to be filmed by the people of your choice. Please give me a time and and place to show up and face a public trial with you as sole judge. I have placed myself at your total mercy here. Please give a time date and address.

      • theoracle

        Mary what the hell is going on? I have placed myself at your disposal to showcase ME on video and answer every question anyone can possibly want to know with YOU AS THE EXECUTIONER and taking full credit for making nothing out of me with you there on the same terms, outing yourself for the benefit of so many, and I have not heard back from you yet.

        • theoracle

          Mary Mary still waiting. If you know her /him and can arrange a face to face video meeting please contact me. I am IN all the way. I am up to be torn down on video. All the way.

  • theoracle

    Communicator I/C that posts on ESMB. You wrote that I called Tony a liar with out posting my apology for that matter. You sneaky little mother fucker of conflict starter in charge. With holding information to key people in and restimulate them. I don’t give two fucks about the noise you stirred up with your false report with half truths. I do not care about you and where you are sending yourself by means of making the world a darker place. You are Southbound little brother. Keep on walking and don’t look back.

  • theoracle

    Tony. fuck you and this fragile little sneaky ………whatever. Declare us all crazy, for loving. We are guilty for loving. There are so many people incapable of that , they view it as a supernatural crime. I gave you all the licensed to come forward and prove I have no value or excuse to be alive. You attracted others that saw you as brother, and chose to kill by your side. Like I owe it to you all to fall into that? We. have methods far beyond this. So far away from you. so far you just can’t see. You have no clue beyond what reconciles with your purpose. Go to Mary MCCdonell, she is the new prophet and leader according to all that is published. She decides who can live and who can die. It is all under her power, cause over life and death. You have no more authority here, with out her concent.

  • TWELFTY

    The church of scientology is an organization which targets the vulnerable and the gullible to extort money from them. Overall it’s pretty much like a criminal gang and treats ‘runaways’ with vengeful attacks. Where’s the compassion ? Not there. It is obsessed with money and that’s about it. The cock-eyed theories are there just to reel in the suckers. Get out and start to live life like a real human being, not a deluded brainwashed automaton !

  • theoracle

    A memoir is how one remember’s one’s own life. An autobiography is an account of history. It would help if some people were literate enough to know these differences before they reviewed literary materials.

    • Guest

      Test

  • Ralph Hilton

    Forget the 4th book. Hubbard provided many useful ideas that were misused by Miscavage and Rathbun. Hubbard did some good thing and made some mistakes. I would consider that the main value is in extracting that which is useful from the works of Hubbard rather than criticisizing the not very bright who took over from him.

    • Dice

      Name one “Useful” idea that comes from this man L. Ron Hubbard? Just one!