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HOW SCIENTOLOGY COERCED A CHILD TO HAVE AN ABORTION: THE LAURA DECRESCENZO FILES

HOW SCIENTOLOGY COERCED A CHILD TO HAVE AN ABORTION: THE LAURA DECRESCENZO FILES

—————- In anticipation of her biggest day in court yet, Laura DeCrescenzo and her attorneys hit the Church of Scientology with 928 pages of new filings —————- Details from 18,000 pages of evidence show how Scientology manipulated a child to keep her working under slave-like conditions —————- A key document describing DeCrescenzo’s unwillingness to have her coerced abortion is missing from the evidence Scientology was ordered to produce By Tony Ortega Wednesday afternoon, Laura DeCrescenzo filed explosive new information in her four-year legal odyssey against the Church of Scientology, submitting 928 pages of new declarations and exhibits in anticipation of a crucial October 23 hearing in her lawsuit against the church which alleges abuse, including allegations that she was forced to have an abortion at only 17 years of age. Key to the new filings is information gleaned from thousands of pages of previously secret files that the church fought mightily to keep under wraps. But on Monday, the U.

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Jefferson Hawkins finishes off our series on Scientology ethics with a reprieve

ScientologyEthicsJefferson Hawkins was once the top marketing executive for the Church of Scientology and helped it reach its greatest extent with the famous “volcano” TV ads in the 1980s. He’s told his tale of getting into and out of the church with his excellent books Counterfeit Dreams and Leaving Scientology, and he’s helping us understand the upside-down world of Scientology “ethics.”

Jeff, you’ve really done a great job educating us about Scientology’s system of ethics in this series. We hate to see it wind down.

JEFFERSON: Well, at last we have come to the end of the Introduction to Scientology Ethics book. The last chapter is called “Conduct of Justice and Forms of Redress.” It’s all about the forms of recourse that Scientologists have if faced with any injustice in Scientology. I imagine these things were written when Hubbard was in a benign mood or when there had been an obvious miscarriage of justice.

In the first section, he urges Scientologists to always “keep the door open” to miscreants so that they have some hope of returning to Scientology. “Expulsion without hope of reinstatement puts people into total hopelessness,” he says. This is a typical Scientology point of view — anyone who is expelled is in a hopeless state of mind.

THE BUNKER: Most of the people who have been “expelled” that I’ve met seem to be pretty relieved to be out of Scientology.

JEFFERSON: Of course. But if you’re inside, the idea of being expelled seems like the end of the world. So they always “leave the door open” by telling people they can “contact the International Justice Chief.” Of course, there’s no one on post and you won’t get an answer!

THE BUNKER: So walk us through some of these forms of recourse.

JEFFERSON: “Gradients of Ethics and Justice Actions” is a list of 36 possible Ethics actions from the lightest (“Noticing something nonoptimum…”) to the most severe (“Expulsion from Scientology”). This was supposed to encourage people to use the lighter touch first, before jumping in to Comm Evs and demotions and so on. Just to give a taste of this, here are the first few:

1. Noticing something nonoptimum without mentioning it but only inspecting it silently.

2. Noticing something nonoptimum and commenting on it to the person.

3. Requesting information by Ethics personnel.

4. Requesting information and inferring there is disciplinary potential in the situation.

And so on right up to expulsion. You notice there isn’t one that says “Noticing something nonoptimum and asking the person if they need any help with it.” God forbid there should be any empathy or compassion in the system!

THE BUNKER: So this was supposed to get executives to lighten up a bit. In your experience, was this scale used?

JEFFERSON: In practice this was usually ignored, and executives would pretty much jump to whatever Ethics gradient they felt was needed. But sometimes you could forestall an action if you pointed out that an executive had skipped too many steps. It was one of those things that smart staff members learned to have in their quiver and use if necessary.

The next section, “Ethics Review,” gives some more of the guidelines of Ethics. For instance, it states that no Ethics action may order a person to training or auditing, but it may suspend training or deny auditing as a disciplinary measure. For instance, if the person is declared PTS, their training and auditing is suspended. It also states that no one may be removed from post without a Committee of Evidence.

I used this on more than one occasion to handle an arbitrary post removal. Hubbard also repeats his message about using a “light touch” when applying Ethics. He says:

Scientology ethics are so powerful in effect, as determined by observation of it in use, that a little goes a very long ways.

Try to use the lightest form first.

Students are quite caved in by it when it is applied, by actual observation.

Our lines are too powerful and direct and what we mean to a person’s future, even while he or she is nattering, is so well understood down deep that ethics action is a far worse threat than mere wog law.

THE BUNKER: You can see that Hubbard well understood the power of this “Ethics Technology” to control people.

JEFFERSON: Yes, and this is something that those who have never been in Scientology may not fully understand. Scientologists have been convinced that the Church holds the power to grant or deny them “their eternity,” so threats by the organization to cut them off or deny them services are taken very seriously — they are literally taken as a matter of life and death. A threat to deny them “the tech” can send a Scientologist into a serious depression. Hubbard adds:

You are threatening somebody with oblivion for eternity by expulsion from Scientology.

Therefore realize that an ethics action need not be very heavy to produce the most startling results.

The next section, “Injustice,” is more of the same, the methods of recourse and the buffers against injustice. It states, for instance, if you get an illegal order and are forced to follow it, you can file a “Knowledge Report” with Ethics and that will, theoretically, absolve you from blame in any Comm Ev.

Hubbard repeats that you cannot be demoted or expelled without a Comm Ev, and you can request a Review Comm Ev if you believe there was an injustice. And the following section gives you the recourse if you feel you have been falsely accused by a “Third Party.”

The final section, interestingly, gives the rules for petitions. He states that anyone can petition any senior executive on any matter, and may not be disciplined for submitting a petition. But there are rules.

Collective petitions are considered a crime as they are “an effort to hide the actual petitioner,” and petitions may not demand a Committee of Evidence or punishment of any kind for executives.

THE BUNKER: I guess Hubbard was afraid the Sea Org Members would unionize and start collective bargaining.

JEFFERSON: And finally, there is a section about amnesties. These used to actually be issued. An International Amnesty applied to all Scientologists and was usually issued when there was a major milestone accomplishment in Scientology. This was supposed to wipe the slate clean for all Scientologists. I don’t recall when the last amnesty was issued, but it was many years ago. If memory serves, the last International Amnesty was issued after the IRS “War is Over” event in 1993.

THE BUNKER: Well, it seems that there were at least some safeguards in the Scientology Ethics system. But were they used?

JEFFERSON: As I mentioned, any smart staff member who wanted to survive in that environment generally had these memorized. If an overzealous senior or Ethics Officer tried to overstep, you did have a way of appealing — holding up one of these Policy Letters and saying, for instance, “You can’t remove me without a Comm Ev! It says so right here!” In earlier years, that may have worked to back off the hounds, and believe me, I used them to the max. But these safeguards were increasingly ignored. The last few years I was in the Sea Org, punishments were simply meted out by Miscavige and no one would question it. He would remove people from post for looking at him wrong, and often offload and expel people on a whim — or because he didn’t like them. By the time I left, these recourses were largely forgotten.

THE BUNKER: Jefferson, we’ve reached the end of the Ethics book. Thank you for walking us through it.

JEFFERSON: It was interesting to revisit this book after being out of that environment for nearly nine years. There is so much that you accept as a Scientologist that is really, in retrospect, crazy, but you only see it after you are able to get a bit of distance from it. I hope the series has helped Ex-Scientologists to better understand what they went through, and has helped the never-ins to see some of the control mechanisms we were subjected to.

GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Introduction — the confusion technique; Ethics, Justice and the Dynamics; Honesty — overts, withholds, and motivators; Ethics and statistics; Ethics conditions; the Responsibilities of Leaders; the Basics of Suppression; the Potential Trouble Source; the Ethics Officer; the Knowledge Report; the Third Party Law; the Justice Code; the Comm Ev

 
——————–

Scientology turns over evidence to Monique Rathbun’s attorneys

We talked yesterday to Monique Rathbun’s attorney, Ray Jeffrey, about Monday’s upcoming hearing in her harassment lawsuit against the Church of Scientology and its leader, David Miscavige.

On January 8, Scientology argued for its ‘anti-SLAPP’ motion, trying to convince Comal County Judge Dib Waldrip that Monique’s lawsuit should be thrown out because it infringes on Scientology’s religious rights. Waldrip granted Monique time to prepare her answer, and also ordered Scientology to turn over recordings that were made during years of surveillance of Monique and her husband Mark ‘Marty’ Rathbun done by the church. They had until Monday to turn that material over, and we asked Jeffrey if the church had done so.

“The Church of Scientology produced materials to us digitally, but has designated those materials as ‘attorney’s-eyes only,’ so we can’t even let our own client and her husband view those materials and help us prepare for the hearing,” he says. “We have challenged this designation, and we will bring it up to the court on Monday before the continuation of the Anti-SLAPP hearing. And we will most likely be asking for a continuance to ask for the designation to be removed.”

Once again, we’ll have Nick Rogers and Mike Bennitt on location on Monday to be our eyes and ears.

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on January 30, 2014 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

 

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  • Simi Valley

    In the early or mid-1990′s there was an event held in the tent in the parking lot north of LA Org where it was announced that after the event, chaplains would be available to speak to for anyone who had suffered an injustice. That was a one-time only thing and I’m sure nothing came of people’s attempts to get justice within the cherch. It was probably done for show.

    • Missionary Kid

      Do you know of anyone who took them up on it and spoke to a chaplain in that regard?

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        I know of someone, not at that time, but at an early one. A friend was labelled suppressive in Toronto and didn’t like it because it stopped her from communicating with friends still in the cult. She sought to take advantage of a Hubbard amnesty. I suspect this was late 1970′s. When she requested amnesty she was told that she still had to go through the usually hoops, the hoops being the “ethics conditions”. Here is an article on them: https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/wakefield/us-11.html . She had no intention of doing these things. She viewed the “amnesty” as a sick attempt to get her back into the cult where they could return to taking her money, time and energy.

      • Simi Valley

        I was tempted to do it for myself but I knew that nothing would come of it because concurrently I had been dealing with chaplains, writing reports, etc., and absolutely nothing changed. N-A-D-A.

        • joan nieman

          Of course, Simi, why would it? What a farce.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          All the pretenses, buffers, gradient shields, in short, the more effective lures have been removed. Miscavige only wants the criminals, sociopaths and easy to manipulate narcissists in his camp. Hint: There are no real chaplains in scientology, just pretenders. Your survival spidey senses worked!

    • grundoon

      “chaplains would be available to speak to for anyone who had suffered an injustice”

      I suppose they were trying to sniff out the “disaffected” and update the ethics folders. An investigation to find out who was posting on the Internet?

    • Cat Daddy

      Remember that was the Time Scientology got Tax exemption

      http://carolineletkeman.org/propaganda/images/irs2.gif

    • Cat Daddy

      http://tonyortega.org/2013/09/06/video-scientology-leader-david-miscaviges-weird-explanation-for-the-irs-victory/

      “We have some rare video of David Miscavige, leader of the Church of
      Scientology, giving a drawn-out and very strange explanation for why and
      how the IRS battled and ultimately caved to the church over its tax
      exempt status in 1993. The speech is from the New Year’s Eve 2000
      Scientology event, which we hadn’t seen before, and it was edited into a
      funky video presentation that was assembled in 2007 by J. Swift, who
      tells us the thing hasn’t been online for several years.”

  • DodoTheLaser

    Thank you Jefferson for going through that scientology “ethics” dreck. Thank god it’s over.

    More foot bullets this Monday.

  • DodoTheLaser

    About that amnesty – keep it for yourself scientology. You gonna need it.

  • http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/muslinger/ Jens TINGLEFF

    Thanks to Jeff for explaining it to us after he and his fellow victims so comprehensively took a bullet for the team ;)

    I fail to see how the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology can hope to prevent the victim of the surveillance (which they have admitted to doing) from seeing the data that the court has ordered the Co$ to hand over. Maybe the processes are Trade Secrets? Or they contain quote from Confidential Scriptures?

    Or could it all be a delaying ploy to make the plaintiff waste yet more time in court after the court ruled in a simple and obvious manner?

    Looking forward to finding out :)

    • WildaBeast

      My guess is, it’s a delaying ploy. It strikes me as deliberately petty as well as a time-waster. The judge is unlikely to be pleased when Ray asks for a continuance and to change the designation on the digital materials provided. Not even a transcript. What jag-offs.

      • Phil McKraken

        This is just the kind of shenanigans that made the judge suggest that Miscavige perhaps will be deposed in the courtroom. Keep it up, Davey.

        • WildaBeast

          What a lovely thought! If Davey gets deposed, it’s one small step toward the end goal of Davey getting deposed, if you follow me…

          • Andrew Underhill

            Actually…do we really want him to go? He is being wonderfully destructive. Perhaps he should see it through to the end?

            • Dr_Orpheus

              Him going out will involve scorched earth tactics that won’t leave his successor(s) much to work with.

            • Eclipse-girl

              I really hope that Co$ does disintegrate. I do not want enough of an organization in place to allow a new tyrant to take over.

            • Andrew Underhill

              I have often thought that if enough people made comments about how well TC was running $ology, DM would do something drastic. If enough people could laud TC’s achievements then it might just trigger a very self destructive fight. It would be interesting to watch.

            • Dr_Orpheus

              A good idea, but where can you find people who can say “Cruise is a good leader” that without laughing?

            • PRenaud

              I believe that judge Waldrip needs to see the evil eyes in this man and the arrogant management of his sleazy lawers…

            • Mrs. V.

              Personally, I think the only place he belongs is in prison. If he destroys Scientology, it won’t really effect him too much. The only ones who will suffer are those that are around him. Put him in a prison and let Karma take care of the rest.

    • Eclipse-girl

      Delaying tactic and Foot bullet at the same time. I think this is only giving more material to Judge Waldrip that scientology is not being reasonable and only want to delay and waster the courts time.

    • grundoon

      What could be on the video that would be damaging to Scientology that Ray Jeffrey might not notice without assistance from the Rathbuns? Might the video reveal the presence of additional PIs or Scientology officials who could be subpoenaed if Marty recognizes them? Maybe Miscavige’s voice can be heard when a PI answers his cell phone within audio range of one of the many cameras?

  • Observer

    Our lines are too powerful and direct and what we mean to a person’s future, even while he or she is nattering, is so well understood down deep that ethics action is a far worse threat than mere wog law.

    I dunno, Davey seems mighty terrified of wog law. I don’t know whether it’s because he’s losing his Teflon coating, or because he seems to have conflated wog law with public buggery.

    • WildaBeast

      Or because ‘ethics’ are no threat to him – the Scientology definition is no threat to him because he’s The Almighty Cob, and the ‘wog’ definition is no threat to him because he doesn’t know what the word means in that context (partly because he’s a sociopath and partly because he’s ill-educated and dim). Ethics can’t touch Davey, no matter how you slice it – but his Teflon coating is indeed scrubbing off bit by bit…

      • Shirley Eugeste

        Either that or the portrait in the attic is approaching gorgon-like levels of horror.

    • Ten Aug

      It is the ultimate irony.

      Miscavige is the only scientologist who truly fears being caught by the long arm of the law.

      He will throw away as many scientologist’s “eternities” as he needs to avoid a little jail time whereas his 10 billion scientologists (10,000 humans plus their BT’s) will risk jail time to save their “eternity” without much thought.

      Upside down world indeed.

    • KNMF

      “Mere wog law” kept Hubbard hopping about, running and hiding.

    • Brian Thomas Lambert

      He has a tsunami of a karmic boomerang heading his way. The lawyer overkill is bad optics for the church. Right now money is his protection. But if the American justice system works well, he’s will be relegated to being jet another two bit thug.

      • Brian Thomas Lambert

        Why can’t there be a class action against him for assault and battery?

        • Shirley Eugeste

          Don’t you need the “class” to initiate the “action”? If I were a betting man, I’d still put my money on perceived martyrdom and concomitant rise in status. Even the really scary guys in prison would fawn all over him, because the CO$ faithful would find ways to stalk and threaten their families on the outside.

    • DamOTclese2

      Not only that but money handed to the Scientology criminals seems to trump the syndicate’s freakishly bizarre “ethics.” Look at the damage that Tom Cruise did to the syndicate’s already horrid reputation. Any other customer without money would have been “declared SP.”

      • Shirley Eugeste

        Do Scientologists acknowledge the damage TC has done?

        • Lady Squash

          I doubt it. Of course, there are Scientologists and Scientologist. If you are drinking the Kool-aide, TC did no wrong and has brought millions into the Church. And if you’ve regained your sanity, well, then TC did good by doing damage.

  • Silence of the Clams

    “Attorney’s eyes only”

    Nice try assholes.

    • NOLAGirl

      They’re so ridiculous. :) Can you imagine (and yes, I know he can’t and wouldn’t) if the Judge said OK…Well Co$ lawyers, you can’t show anything to your client either. *giggles* That might be what finally gives Dave that stroke we’ve all been expecting.

      • Minion Gayle

        If only.

    • joan nieman

      Attorney’s eyes only? I have heard everything now !I guess with the madness of it all, it is not an unusual move of desperation!

    • DamOTclese2

      The crooks are attempting to claim that the evidence of their crimes is some how trade secrets, the designation is usually used when evidence is handed over that contains copyrighted information which plaintiffs should not be privy to. It is never used to hide crimes from plaintiffs like these crooks are trying to do.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        It’s like the mafia claiming the horse’s head as sacrament and the ass as trade secret. Sounds legit.

  • Missionary Kid

    Kind of off topic. L.A. Times article on former Sheriff Lee Baca’s legacy http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-01-30-baca-legacy-20140130,0,7630651.story#axzz2rswTa6XA

    • http://frankdisalleisadummy.wordpress.com/ Get Chutney Love

      I just put in a comment about Baca and his ties to CoS. 5 will get you 10 that there’s someone high up in the LAT hierarchy who insures that CoS doesn’t get any bad publicity, if you know what I mean.

      • Missionary Kid

        Wat that for Letters to the Editor? I’ve only been able to get one letter in, but my comment had noting to do with Co$.

        • http://frankdisalleisadummy.wordpress.com/ Get Chutney Love

          No, I’m talking about things like using the LAT search engine for the term Scientology vs. searching the website using Google with the same word, the latter reveals a puff piece printed about CoS that didn’t have any comments enabled. That is no coincidence. That plus this being the latest article they printed about the CoS-affilitated school that went under is 5.5 years old:

          http://articles.latimes.com/2008/jun/29/local/me-newvillage29

          The last article they have that mentions CoS is about the National Book Critics awards.

          http://www.latimes.com/books/jacketcopy/la-et-jc-national-book-critics-circle-announces-2013-awards-finalists-20140113,0,6401252.story

          I don’t know whether they feel beholden to Burt Fields, they don’t want to piss Tommy Boy, John Revolta, or Kirstie Alley off, or they’ve decided that covering it is too tabloid. But the bias is there, and I’m sure it’s rarely talked about.

          • Missionary Kid

            I get the L.A. Times digitally, and when I want to send someone an article off of that edition, if I copy it, it appears as one long paragraph, so I go to the Times website to find it so I can send a more easily read form. If it isn’t featured on their website, I have to use the search engine listing the writer’s name for direct results. Using the headline often doesn’t get me to the article. Once I find the article, I copy the URL and send it to whomever I think needs it.

            The search engine is just weird, IMO.

            • http://frankdisalleisadummy.wordpress.com/ Get Chutney Love

              Nope, if it was functioning properly, it would yield this puff piece about CoS which was published almost 2 years ago.

              http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jul/12/nation/la-na-nn-what-is-scientology-20120712

              It also has this as the heading:

              YOU ARE HERE: LAT Home→Collections→Tom Cruise

              The search results for CoS on the website only go back to September of last year, BTW.

              Something is rotten on Spring Street, MK.

  • aquaclara

    I would never have believed that an entire book could be written about Scientology’s “ethics.” I am appalled by the degree of control the church’s so-called scriptures instills over each person. The control, plus the spying and tale-telling, and then the enforcement actions….this is terrifying.

    Jefferson, thanks for walking us through this with a sense of perspective that this is indeed crazy.

  • baddog5623

    Your Honor, these documents are super secret stuff. If the squirrels ever got their hands on these documents life as we know it would come to a end. Do you want people to get pneumonia and die?

    • Modesto

      Does your dog want to get pneumonia and die?

      • Andrew Underhill

        The universe would implode.

      • Robert Long

        Too soon?

        • Modesto

          Well, normally yes RL but the way things are going for the cherch …

    • DamOTclese2

      Apparently the crooks want to pretend that the evidence of their racketeering harassment are trade secrets. ROFL! As if the Mafia could patent their policies, practices, and procedures.

    • Cat Daddy
  • NOLAGirl

    Dave, I know you like to think that, from your tiny throne, you can dictate how an attorney/client relationship is allowed to work, but sorry short stuff….you can’t. You see……Awww, I’ll just let the Judge explain it to you. It’ll be more fun that way. :) Good luck with all that. Bahahahahaha!!!!

  • aquaclara

    How many attorneys did it take to come up with this BS? Attorney’s eyes only? Really?

    • NOLAGirl

      Judge Waldrip is going to be none to pleased about this. Although the bullshit excuse Davey’s lawyers come up with should make for some great theater. :)

      • Eclipse-girl

        Judge Waldrip appears to be a reasonable person, filled with common sense.
        I can only imagine that tactics like this are going to irritate Judge Waldrip.
        When Davey’s deposition does come, it will give Judge Waldrip more reason to have it in the courtroom as he threatened

        • NOLAGirl

          I want Tiny Boots to have to explain, under oath, what the practice of “Fair Game” means. LOL The look on the Judges face would be priceless.

        • Robert Long

          Was that threat legitimate d’ya think or was he just encouraging them to play nice? DM deposed in judge Waldrip’s court would be like early Christmas.

          • Eclipse-girl

            I think it was Judge Waldrip’s way to of encouraging both parties to “play nice.”

            It is within his jurisdiction to require the deposition to be made in front of him or another judge. Actions like this may annoy him to the point of requiring the deposition is in front of him to stop the dilatory tactics

  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

    Thanks for putting the ethics together for us, Jeff. I knew it was a sick system but I had no idea how sick. They always surprise me.

  • My name is Larry Lester

    Its only a matter of time before someone smuggles out the big one from behind Golds doors. Its going to happen. And its going to be good when it happens.

    • cdub

      right. there’s more to come.

    • Sidney18511

      Really! Just 30 seconds of DM smacking the sclioons out of somebody should do it!

      • RMycroft

        Or a day’s worth of the security videos of The Hole.

      • Modesto

        But your Honor, it was an entirely voluntary process of spiritual counselling …

        • CobGatYour$$

          This SOB will throw any and all of his minions to back up all the lies he will tell in his depostion. I hope M.Rathbun has all his bullets lined up!

  • Ten Aug

    Jeff, your contributions are very much appreciated. They have helped me understand this craziness a great deal.

    Not to add fuel to the Dave bad, Hubbard good debate but I do believe Dave has distilled all of this Hubbard ethics verbiage down to one very convenient “stable datum”. That being:

    “You are threatening someone with oblivion by threatening them with expulsion from Scientology”

    That one line is all Dave needs to control his cult. He is vastly more evil than Hubbard but he is much better at controlling his leaks.

    He is Smirnoff to Hubbard’s grain farm.

    I pray every day that Monique and Jeff will help expose a little of that evil for the world to see.

    • D.Y.G.

      “he is much better at controlling his leaks.”

      I dunno about that. All the big leaks that immediately come to mind happened under Miscavige’s reign of terror.

      • MaxSpaceman

        All the ‘tech’ — the OT levels, New Era Dianetics for non-operating thetans NOTs, the Ls (L10,11,12) — were leaked finally on Davey Machiavellian midget Miscavige’s watch.

        • D.Y.G.

          The leak of the OT levels was the first thing that popped into my head.

    • Eclipse-girl

      I believe Ron was just as evil. It was easier to get away with that evil when you have the cult of personality that still surround Ron with some of the indies.

      We also have the internet. The World has grown smaller than (instant communication)

      Society has progressed in the 25 + yrs since Ron died, so Davey only appears more evil.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Debating who was more evil is pointless. People died under both of their reigns and proving one sociopath was worse than the other will not bring them back. They are All still dead.

  • cdub

    Oh yeh the eternity thing. Thanks for reminding us all about that useless ethics book.
    In this blog people keep asking why did you stay and don’t know how people could stay and so on. There’s one other factor that entered in to the equation I’ve come to think. The way it was presented Scientology was on the verge of becoming very, very big and early adopters in such cases have quite an advantage. People who are active at the early stages of huge social movements, companies, and technologies are sometimes set for life. To be cynical call it the greed factor or worse but for people with good intentions, like myself, it was expected the distasteful elements of Scientology would fade away sooner or later. Well it turned out we were duped and weren’t getting the entire story and now that the whole story is out there it’s a shame if anyone else gets roped into this scam.

    • Once_Born

      “The way it was presented Scientology was on the verge of becoming very,
      very big and early adopters in such cases have quite an advantage.”

      Just like a pyramid selling scheme – except all of the money goes to the CofS and the members who have bought in are motivated by the expectation of ‘supernatural’ benefits (like OT powers) and future influence.

    • N. Graham

      Good point, and one rarely remarked upon.

  • http://twitter.com/TaxFreeCOB Leader Of Leaders

    I’ve been working on some legal arguments as to why Scientology classified the surveillance evidence as attorney’s eyes only:

    -Because it’s sooper secret and Marty and Mosey no longer have the secret decoder ring.

    -It would be religious infringement for the victims of the harassment to see evidence documenting said harassment. Asking CO$ to provide evidence is harassment.

    -Allowing the harassment techniques to become public knowledge would allow other entities to have insider info on how to harass as effectively as CO$ and therefore lose out on the lucrative “Stalking Tech” Patents & Trademarks that are worth 47 Quintilian dollars.

    -Because Captain Davey said so, na-na-na, na-na-na!

  • chukicita

    My deepest thanks to Jeff – and Bruce and the Headleys and Jon Atack and Tony and all who’ve helped make sense of Scientology for others. It’s important to be able to have real discourse so people can make informed decisions.

    • Eclipse-girl

      The Bunker thanks all of those who have worked with Tony O to give his readers insight into the working of scientology.

      • N. Graham

        When is the awards ceremony going to be? We should form a club of our own and give awards and certificates! C’mon, it’d be fun!

        • Eclipse-girl

          I believe that awards and door prizes have been given out when some people have gathered. Tony O joined a gathering in CW earlier in 2013 and Tory Christman has had at least one party at her place.

          I do agree there should be lots of awards and acknowledgements to those who have helped us never ins wrap our heads around what we initially see as bat shit crazy, and then come to realize that we were right all along.

          (I do not mean to disparage anyone who was in and escaped. I am glad you got out and are healing.)

    • joan nieman

      Ditto that chuckicita!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      There are now every type of resource and fountain of facts and information for every member at every stage of the awakening process!

    • KNMF

      Word.

  • Eclipse-girl

    I have the suspicion that Judge Waldrip is going to have over rule the designation on the evidence that was turned over. My question is whether or not he can sanction the plaintiffs attorneys for that act.

  • KNMF

    “Attorney’s eyes only”

    They don’t want Marty to see it and explain it, and especially, blog about it.

    • Ruby

      Marty has been pretty careful NOT to blog about info on the case.
      No, I think they don’t want Tony to blog about it here in the Bunker.

      • Tony Ortega

        Funny, I think Marty’s been a bit reckless on his blog during the lawsuit. Could come back to bite him in the ass if he’s not more careful.

        • Ruby

          You may be right.
          I’ve just not read much there on the case since it started. There is way more info here.

        • KNMF

          wondered about that

          • BosonStark

            Me too. I expected Marty to stop blogging once the trial started.

            • joan nieman

              He hadn’t mentioned much of anything until just recently. He should almost delete it all, the best he can do for the time being.

            • KMNF

              If it has been posted, you can bet that deleting it won’t make it go away. Pretty sure that everything he puts on the internet is instantly saved.

        • Eclipse-girl

          I am not a follower of Marty’s blog. I am aware of a recent entry about the number of lawyers being used. Are there other entries that could damage the case?

          • Tony Ortega

            This, for example, was stunningly unwise to post during a lawsuit like this. I’ll be amazed if at some point Scientology doesn’t try to use it to trip up Monique and Ray.

            http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/12/26/scientology-armageddon/

            • KMNF

              Maybe Marty posted so much of that stuff before the trial even started, that to suddenly change course now would be futile or even an admission that he was doing something wrong

            • RMycroft

              I had the feeling that he was toning it down prior to the case being publicly launched.

            • KNMF

              One thing that Marty has definitely been doing, and it’s been refreshing to observe imo, is gradually coming to grips with the evil intentions of Hubbard. Or at least that is how he’s chosen to blog about it, on the ol’ gradient.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Hopefully his friends will impinge on this situation and fast.

            • Eclipse-girl

              TY for the link. I agree with your opinions.

            • Davka

              I think the man is just plain old mad, and tired, and now taking care of a newborn. It may be that he isn’t thinking about it strategically. That said, probably isn’t making Ray J. too happy, but sometimes it is hard to control your own client, let alone your client’s husband, who happens to be central to the case and known for running his own path.

        • HillieOnTheBeach

          That’s unfortunate. I assume Jeffrey would’ve covered this with Marty at the onset of the case. Though it wouldn’t be the first time someone ignores their attorney’s advice.

          (I know Jeffrey isn’t Marty’s lawyer but as Monique’s husband, his proximity puts him within earshot of Jeffrey’s recommendations).

        • Cat Daddy
          • KNMF

            Catdad, I think the post you linked, dated 1/28, would be especially embarrassing for DM and his team to address in court, especially during this anti slapp phase.

            The disparity between the opposing legal teams is an easy, media-friendly talking point, and it says a lot. I bet Rathbun understands this.

      • KNMF

        yeah that also.
        Marty does have a decent post up about the amount of legal firepower employed by Miscavige in this case relative to all the other scientology legal flaps.

    • http://BareFacedMessiah.wordpress.com/ BareFacedMessiah

      OMG!!!
      My argument is that they should not have done this harassment in the first place.
      Then there would be no WITHHOLD.

      It is their own tech saying what WITHHOLDs are.

  • Ruby

    “Attorney’s eyes only”…WTF?? That is completely absurd!
    Oh, Judge Waldrip is not going to be happy.

    • Sidney18511

      Nothing they do or say can surprise me anymore. It is amazing the annoying shit they can come up with.

    • scnethics

      Smart, because if it were to stand, Monique would have to pay Jeffries to go through all the material himself. Dumb, because it won’t stand. At this point, I think they are happy to piss off the judge, in hopes he will do something to help in their appeal.

  • Racnad

    “The keep the door open” section is often used by Scientologists to argue that their Machiavellian system of Ethics is actually benevolent. Since actually becoming an ex-Scientologists can be psychologically difficult, many people, including declared SPs, do go back. What they don’t say though is that one must go through ethics handling first, in other words, admit that any mistreatment they received was actually their fault, and writing new lists of their overts, and perhaps paying for the privilege.

    On Amnesties, I seem to recall reading of one in a Scientology mailer since 1993. I suspect they’re periodically used when they need to up their stats, and face it, there’s a LOT of former scientologists out there. There was small print though saying it didn’t apply to declared suppressive persons, so the target seems to be people who just quietly stop going and change their phone numbers to get away from regs’ calls. Again, the deal was “write up your overts for us and you won’t get punished for them.” It is clear that you must agree that any issue that caused you to withdraw from Scientology is your fault. The church NEVER admits to doing anything wrong.

    • grundoon

      It is really amazing how many expelled Scientologists pay the wholly unconscionable “freeloader’s debt,” kiss up to the IJC, and grovel through A to E to get back in. Some do it more than once.

  • http://BareFacedMessiah.wordpress.com/ BareFacedMessiah

    Davey will need 5 more lawyers. ;)

    edit: typo, sorry, liars … not lawyers

    • RMycroft

      It’s getting like a Python sketch. “The room was full of lawyers, some of whom were very old.”

      • http://BareFacedMessiah.wordpress.com/ BareFacedMessiah

        I only got 4 up votes for 5 laywers #:(
        LOL

  • Ms. B. Haven

    “There is so much that you accept as a Scientologist that is really, in retrospect, crazy, but you only see it after you are able to get a bit of distance from it.”

    This pretty much says it all. This is why it is so difficult for those who are ‘in’ to wake up and see things for themselves. It is really no different than like waking from a dream. When we are having a dream at night, it can vary from something pretty mild and pleasant to something wildly bizarre and terrifying. When you are having the dream you are totally convinced that the events you are experiencing are real. When you wake up, and you realize you were dreaming, things are put into perspective and the effects of the dream fade. Sometimes, dreams can be so intense that even after you wake up, you are still disturbed and upset by the dream even though you KNOW that you were just dreaming. That’s my experience anyway.

    “Scientologists have been convinced that the Church holds the power to grant or deny them “their eternity,” so threats by the organization to cut them off or deny them services are taken very seriously — they are literally taken as a matter of life and death.”

    This is the situation one is in until one wakes up, whether it is waking up from scientology or something else. Scientology is particularly bad because of this threat that they bandy about so freely. This threat is always there and used with abandon no matter what the official policies are. “Ethics tech” is the only thing that keeps this organization afloat. If it wasn’t in place it would have faded decades ago as just another wacky, new agey, space opera therapy.

    Jeff also makes a good point about Amnesty. As far as I know these things don’t happen anymore. I think the cult is long overdue for one. I also think that since they are scraping the bottom of the barrel by going thru their Central Files records and making cold calls to everyone on those lists, an Amnesty will be in order soon, possibly this year. This will be another attempt to lure people back who feel that they have suffered some sort of injustice, and there are a shit load of them. This would be just another temporary patch to attempt to keep the flood of departures from getting worse as a result of the heavy handed regging and ethics actions that are being reported on critics sites. I made these predictions on John P’s blog. Only time will tell if they are accurate. http://www.johnpcapitalist.com/2013/12/work-in-progress-predictions-for-scientology-in-2014/

    These Amnesties are just a pretense. The cult has NEVER been known to take responsibility for their misdeeds and admit that they might be wrong. I would challenge any lurker or fence-sitter out there to provide an example where a wrong was made right by the cult. It just doesn’t happen. NEVER.

    • ze moo

      Amnesties were given in the past when the cash flow didn’t meet expectations. It is a marketing tool, not ‘justice’.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        http://i.imgur.com/ip3wYmMl.jpg

        This reminds me that no matter how weighed down by scientology’s dark side you might be by Saturday, I’ve seen some of the sneak previews of Superb Owl commercials come Sunday. I guarantee the Volkswagon ad will resurrect you, but first it will slay and in the end … you will see the light.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      The problem with an amnesty now is that members have learned the hard way they are meaningless and if anything, whatever you write down Will be used against you in the future. In the current chaotic climate, the future usually shows up by next Thursday at 2:00 pm.

  • BosonStark

    Some people who are expelled from Scientology probably feel better than the ones who left on their own, because someone else made the decision for them, which allows them to wake up faster. It is being freed from the “prison of belief.”

    Even with a crime-free Colombia and with the passion for the Basics held by the tribal herders of Yakutsk, this planet is far from clear, and if I were little Davie, I would expel every single SP, PTS, out-tech, out-2D, YSCOHB clam for ethics violations. And then I would get all oily and unleash my super powerz, and get the job done!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      No, those who get declared believe they will never get “better” for all of eternity and also lose all their business connections, maybe their business or job, family, friends, social life. It is the worst possible scenario. Those that leave on their own can do so quietly and work out their own plan for the best way to recover, find out for themselves what’s true and what’s not, and do so gradually.

  • Good Fella

    (Off Topic): Before I forget — As I’m a massive Jefferson Hawkins fan, the impending loss of his weekly contributions fills me with regret. So I’ve been casting about all week, trying to think of something else that JH could write about, sharing his experiences and insights with the rest of us.

    I finally came up with a subject; Hubbard’s so-called “Art Series”. I have tried reading this stuff over and over, looking for some kind of new awareness on the subject of art that would lead me to a more creative and productive artistic level of artistic creativity. So far, the only thing I’ve gotten from his stuff is, to be successful, people should like what you’ve done, your art should communicate. All the rest????

    I would be thrilled to have JH’s take on the subject of Hubbard’s writings plus any other knowledge of art that has been of benefit to him. After all, his effective productivity has been the yardstick by which many of us have judged our own work – the Dianetics TV campaign for example.

    Please, Jefferson……

    • pronoia

      Along those lines, I would love to see how Jefferson would deconstruct various marketing campaigns. Ike the rationale behind the golden graphics and swelling music and so forth!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      The Art Series? Um, that should take about 5 minutes and 2 paragraphs….pfffft!

      • joan nieman

        If that.

      • Good Fella

        THDNE, you are too mean. You’re probably right but still mean.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      WITH EXAMPLES!

      I want the photos. I want those films from the original Film Org. I want the whole story on the paintings. (The ones that Arthur did, I believe.)

      The old editions of the VMH are NOT ENOUGH! We want MOAR!

      • Observer

        Every time you post this pic I get this song stuck in my head. The “restaurant owner” looks so much like Wolfman Jack…

        http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dO8ahHedcnk

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          By George! He does look like the Wolfman!

      • grundoon

        “Tommy Davis orders takeout for the Rathbuns”

      • Anonymous

        The strongest common thread between virtually ALL Scientology imagery is the complete absence of subtlety.

        Hubbard insisted on this in several written policies.

        Nothing about the picture above says balance, nuance or discretion.

        Food doesn’t go bad….people are POISONED.

        Someone isn’t short of cash….they are PUTTIING THEIR ETERNITY AT RISK by not donating now…now…now!

        It is all black or white, good or bad even despite Hubbard’s “Infinity Valued Logic” BS.

    • N. Graham

      Or maybe he could do the new LRon Encyclopedia or some of the volumes like the photography one.

    • OrangySky

      What about Jefferson’s take on PR tech? Since he was the marketing genius of CO$ (Miscavige’s biggest mistake was to alienate, torture (pretty much) and banish Jefferson – he was the one guy who could’ve made CO$ palatable to the masses. On second thought, I’m glad Miscavige made that mistake…and I bet so is Jefferson today!

  • t1kk

    Designating a document as “attorneys eyes only” prevents the receiving attorney from doing much with the document if an expert or your client is the only person who can make sense of or bring context to the document. It’s usually reserved for instances to protect trade secrets or the like when the litigants are competing entities; which makes some sense because otherwise discovery would be abused as an anti-competitive business tactic. I’m guessing the rationale, if they even bothered expressing one, is some variant on We’re A Religion, but I don’t see how it’ll hold up in this instance (at least as a blanket for *all* the produced docs) because the sorts of documents I expect were produced are the sort that will either bolster or refute arguments that have already been made. It’s necessary that these documents be put on the table. Let Scientology make confidentiality arguments on a doc-by-doc basis.

    • BosonStark

      I see, I think, so could this take weeks, just arguing over what documents should be considered “attorneys eyes only” and what ones are not? If that is so, then it fits in with Scientology’s plan to make this trial last forever and cost the Rathbuns a fortune.

      • Silence of the Clams

        I doubt it will take more than a few minutes because the reasoning isn’t there. I doubt there is a precedent or legal justification for the “eyes only” mandate…at least not one that anyone would buy. Clearly, the plaintiff needs access to the evidence in order to demonstrate or corroborate information. It’s kind of the basis for the case. And knowing that, I think Waldrip will tighten the noose on the scilon lawyers and I’m hoping he does it with some vigor. Judges are allowed to get pissed off and It may not be out of the Waldrips purview to speed up the hearing and order Miscarriage to be deposed within a tight time frame to stop this kind of nonsense.

        But, either way, this action does cause some amount of delay.

        • Lady Squash

          And that is the point, and the only point.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      I hope this will be the last straw that break’s the judge’s patience. There has to be a remedy for a judge to end this sort of thing, otherwise it renders justice unattainable to those who seek it. Scientology has been making a mockery of the very foundation of our American laws and our core sense and belief in the entire justice system for over 40 years. There must be an end to their reign of terror by loopholes.

      • Verve

        The screwy part of this- before the law got so convoluted that it became “s/he who has to most attorneys wins,” the justice system was fairly good; burden of proof is high, usually. There have been many mistakes, though the non-profit project that clears people through DNA is good.
        OK, not really sure where I went here, but I think it’s something like, “The US justice system is better than the Spanish Inquistion.

      • Lady Squash

        Bravo! Exactly.

    • Sunny Sands

      Scientology seems to be the only (fake) religion that has trade secrets.

      • Ruby

        hahaha! Good point, Sunny!

      • DamOTclese2

        Mormon hate cult does also. They sue people who expose their child rape practices and their supposedly once-secret documents and other “temple” practices.

      • Lady Squash

        That should scream as a red flag!

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      I get it. Scientology is concerned that if Monique sees these materials, she might tell her husband Marty about it and he will then be privy to the Church’s ecclesiastical surveillance Tech. And spy-cam Tech. And dildo Tech.

      (‘Cause Marty knows nothing about the ways that Scientology stalks and harasses its perceived enemies…)

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Marty probably wrote half that “tech”. heh

      • PoisonIvyHerself

        God forbid someone learns the intricacies of ‘Dildo Tech!’

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          (It’s not all that intricate. Shhh.)

      • Shirley Eugeste

        I hope Monique checked that dildo for recording devices.

      • Verve

        Nobody expect the the dildo tech!
        (And here is sentence #23 that I thought I’d never write.)

        • eh_politico

          Come to reddit. It’s all downhill from there. Also, the scientology sub needs more posters and commenters.

      • Lady Squash

        It’s just harassment pure and simple. No logic needed.

    • Gerard Plourde

      I follow what you’re saying. Do documents designated “attorney’s eyes only” that could contain trade secrets have to be accompanied by a privilege log or a request for some kind of protective order?

      • t1kk

        Well, a document produced wouldn’t be on a privilege log by virtue of its having been produced. But designations like “attorneys eyes only” would be something ordinarily worked out between the parties in advance, and disputes about it brought to the judge’s attention in advance. To respond to others above, yes, this is part and parcel of the deliberate foot dragging. And while, yeah, Scientology is really bad in this regard, they aren’t as unique as you’d think–plenty of parties cough up discovery docs only after an expensive and protracted war.

        • Gerard Plourde

          So normally, a document would only be marked “attorney’s eyes only” after being discussed by counsel for the parties, is that right? What I’m getting at here is that in this case someone on the Scientology side (either cult staff or counsel) unilaterally decided to mark the documents and Ray Jeffrey’s first notice of this was when the documents were delivered to him.

          • t1kk

            Normally, yeah, but I doubt that happened here, and I doubt the civil procedure rules or court rules address the question with any specificity. Often a court in a complex litigation will issue an order outlining discovery guidelines governing the case throughout; but this isn’t a “complex litigation” on its face, it’s a fairly simple tort suit against a defendant that by virtue of its nature effectively renders it a complex litigation. So Waldrip hasn’t issued anything, to my knowledge, that sets discovery rules in stone.

            • Shirley Eugeste

              So a defendant can threaten to hold its breath until it turns blue and thereby force the judge to treat the case as “complex litigation”? Sounds like rewarding the defendant for being assholes.

            • Gerard Plourde

              Thanks for the explanation. I’m sure you’re right that Waldrip didn’t issue guidelines. He probably (and rightly) saw this as a simple tort matter which would have pretty straightforward discovery.

          • TX Lawyer

            In my experience, it is pretty rare for the parties to discuss in advance whether particular documents can/should be designated attorney eyes only. Instead, they will discuss the issue in the context of negotiating a protective order to govern discovery in the case as a whole, where you would typically define general categories of documents that can be designated as AEO. It’s typically applied to things like trade secrets and sensitive financial data that could give the party on the other side of the case a competitive advantage if it were disclosed to them. No way in hell a bunch of surveillance photos of the plaintiff’s house and lives would ever qualify for AEO status under any protective order I have ever seen. You can safely expect Scientology to get spanked on this one.

            • Gerard Plourde

              From what you say, I doubt that the attorneys for the cult marked the materials as “attorneys eyes only”. More likely they were blindsided by the cult. Those types of shenanigans, if they continue, could have the lawyers reassess whether the money they’re getting is worth the aggravation. No lawyer wants to be put in the put in the position of being dressed down by a judge because of a client’s misbehavior.

    • PoisonIvyHerself

      Wow, that’s an extreme measure alright. I didn’t even know you could do that. Sealed documents, yes, but something an attorney can’t even show his/her client?

      Only in Scientology….

      • Robert Eckert

        Well, it’s less extreme that claiming a privilege and not letting the other side’s lawyers see anything either.

    • TX Lawyer

      The Texas rules do no provide for any automatic right to declare something “attorney eyes only.” It’s something the judge can provide for pursuant to a protective order, and litigants often agree to the entry of such a protective order so they can designate things to be produced in the future as “confidential” (i.e., nobody outside the litigation gets it) or AEO (nobody but the lawyers, excluding even the clients). It’s a classification that is ripe for abuse, and only rarely necessary or appropriate.

      Ray Jeffrey’s statement indicates that he intends to respect the AEO designation until he can bring the issue before the court, so somewhere along the line a protective order must have been entered (or maybe a signed agreement between the attorneys to the case). I can’t imagine why he would have ever agreed to a AEO category, since he’s obviously anticipating Scientoogy’s litigation tactics and would have had to see this coming. I would speculate that it was something Judge Waldrip would have thought was okay, since it’s a common (albeit frequently abused) provision of protective orders. I cannot imagine the court will be happy to see it being abused so blatantly.

      • Robert Eckert

        No, there was no protective order entered, and no agreement between the attorneys. He is not showing the stuff to the Rathbuns right now because it is only until Monday that he has to wait to see the judge again, and it is better to bend over backwards to be correct.

        • TX Lawyer

          If there’s no protective order, I would send them a letter (cc: to the court) stating that their designation is ineffective and that in 24 hours I plan to share the documents with my client and anyone else with whom it is necessary in order to prepare for Monday’s hearing, Haynes & Boone knows that’s a thoroughly meaningless designation without a protective order or an agreement of the parties. Let them get a protective order if they think they’re entitled to one.

          • Robert Eckert

            This discovery is to prepare for the anti-SLAPP hearing on February 14, not to prepare for Monday’s hearing. Monday’s hearing (Tuesday is also set aside for it) is about the motion for sanctions, and Waldrip also wants to hear that they have agreements on discovery for the special appearance issue; Jeffrey has leave to amend his motion for sanctions if there is further obstruction on discovery, and he is certain to bring up this latest bit of nonsense.

            • TX Lawyer

              That makes a little more sense, and there’s usually some worth in taking the high road, but I would still be extremely reluctant to send a message (per the quote in Tony’s story) that I was going to abide by an abusive litigant’s self-declared, unsupported rules for even a few days time. Why encourage further attempts at similar nonsense?

            • Robert Eckert

              Well, I’m just speculating about what Jeffrey is doing. We’ll see, but he has shown himself a canny chess player to this point.

            • TX Lawyer

              “Speculating” != “there was no protective order entered.”

            • Robert Eckert

              When Waldrip issues orders, Tony tells us about it.

  • scnethics

    Jefferson: what a great series! And as an ex, I did find it helpful. Thank you!

  • Simi Valley

    Thanks, Jeff, for this amazing series. It really helped get my head back on straight.

    • Sherbet

      It’s funny, Simi, it had the opposite effect on a never-in. I can’t stop shaking my head in disbelief!

      • Simi Valley

        I guess that’s normal, considering.

    • aquaclara

      Simi, this makes me smile.
      I hope you’re having lots of fun in your new life! You know, where toothbrushes are ONLY for teeth, the alarm clock is there just as a reminder that after 9 hours of a good night’s sleep with a fluffy pillow and warm blanket, it is a perfect time for a yummy breakfast and coffee or tea as you desire.
      Oh, and that work time ends at a proper hour, just in time for you to go home and enjoy a delicious dinner, play with your cat, dog, hubby or significant other, as you wish, and that weekends are time for trips to the park, or the movies or to spend time with friends or a good book.
      You deserve it all!

  • Sherbet

    Let me get this straight. Evidence such as videos taken from cameras pointed at the plaintiff’s home are designated “for attorney’s eyes only”?

    • pronoia

      So that Monique’s attorneys are rendered unable to fact check them for corruption or completeness. Scilon lawyers are SO transparent.

      • HillieOnTheBeach

        More precisely, it puts the onus on Jeffrey’s office to reconcile cos’s materials with the Rathbuns’ whereas if Monique and Marty could see them, they might be able to spot inconsistencies more quickly. More wasted time and money.

  • Science Doc

    If Tony is receptive to new story arc suggestions I would suggest an in-depth interview with Mike Rinder.

    • Tony Ortega
      • MaxSpaceman

        Tony O.: “So, I asked Rinder, where is this all going?”

        Mike Rinder: “I don’t think that the demise of Miscavige and the church is going to be a direct result of people abandoning it,” he says. “I think there is sort of a snowball effect that happens with people who get influenced by Debbie Cook, or the Tampa Bay Times. Other people who know someone affected by disconnection…

        “The people in the local orgs, they see that nothing is expanding. But they assume it is everywhere else. They figure they’re doing something wrong, and so they don’t want to look anywhere else. It’s like a whole big incredibly elaborate facade that’s been constructed.

        “It will just kind of fall to pieces as soon as that source of bullshit is no longer able to convince everybody that the world of Scientology is experiencing its greatest rate of expansion.

        “The only thing Miscavige has is a lot of money. So, he is able to create the appearance of expansion with this buying of buildings. Because all you need for that is money.”

        • BosonStark

          Right now clams could go into empty orgs and see that the cult is not flourishing. However, they don’t, and even the ones who work at these empty orgs persist, thinking expansion is “elsewhere” or out there somewhere, maybe in Yakutsk.

          When you consider the absurd lies that Hubbard has his followers swallowing without blinking, the issue of actual numbers, or even Scientology’s effect on society, like reducing crime or battling the evil psychs, it’s all just part of the fantasy too.

          It is what clams do. They tell lies to themselves and others, and fantasize that they are clearing the planet and transforming society. Yeah, it can be pretty tough going in places like Scotland, where you’ve got five nutters in the group, but they go on. They can dress up as different characters and multiply that way, or retreat in Arthurian fantasy, go out of body and travel to other planet, explore past lives.

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            What a defeatist attitude! Scientology is going GREAT in Ireland. This must be true, as there is a video all about it on the internet.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            It’ important to remember that the majority leave when they get hit up with orders to not look, read, see, hear, etc. Those that stay for whatever their reason or state of mind do so willfully and irresponsibly. The celebrities and whales are the worst offenders.
            Can you imagine donating $100,000 to something you haven’t researched, not to mention $1,000,000? This is not a matter of stupid. This is reckless behavior, the sort you expect from addicts, criminals or mentally challenged.

      • Sidney18511

        Just took a look at this and looky what I found. This is what MR says could bring down the church.

        “But I think the ultimate demise is going to be either when there is enough media pressure demanding that Miscavige answer up and stop sending lackeys to make excuses, or when he’s forced to testify under oath.

        “The minute either of those things happens, he won’t be able to maintain the facade any longer. His facade is built primarily on him doing these events — the New Year’s event, March 13 [Hubbard's Birthday], June 6 [Maiden Voyage], the IAS in October — where he convinces the flock that everything is hunky dory. They believe it, because he’s the one saying it. If he can’t do that, the whole house of cards will fall to pieces.

        • BosonStark

          Like the house of cards fell apart when LRH demonstrated a Clear to the public? LRH got away with lying in public, why shouldn’t Miscavige?

          I like the crumbling facade theory of Miscavige being forced to testify, but it could also cause many clams to tighten up the ship and give more, to plug the holes as it sinks. We’re talking about Tom Cruise’s ego here, too. Icons like Tom must not be seen as supporting a farce, a money-sucking scam created by a pathological liar.

          However, the public’s opinion of Scientology could very well go even lower when Miscavige testifies. This is a really interesting trial, and Miscavige’s participation could make it much more high profile.

      • Science Doc

        Thanks Tony.

      • Sandy

        I had forgotten how much I love this interview. Thx for reposting.

  • Ruby

    The court order from Judge Waldrip states:
    “It is further ORDERED that the Anti-SLAPP Movants shall produce to Plaintiff the following materials generated or obtained between January 1, 2009 through August 16, 2013, and/or shall serve a privilege log concerning same, by January 27, 2014: …”
    So, isn’t Monique the plaintiff?

    • http://BareFacedMessiah.wordpress.com/ BareFacedMessiah

      I am sure there is another definition in the good old Tech Dictionary of the Guardian Office.

    • 3feetback-of-COS

      Her lawyers represent “her”.

    • ccyankee

      I wondered the same thing. Does “Plaintiff” mean the same thing as Plaintiff’s attorneys? I would think that the defense is not complying with the judge’s order to turn over the materials if the actual plaintiff (Monique) can’t see them & verify their accuracy.

      • Ruby

        I know. It seems so obvious to me, but, I am not a lawyer. :)

  • Amovolare

    Logical observation: while DM (and all other scions) could say (if they will): “Do like me, be a scientologist!”,
    LRH cant. He only could say: “Do like me, found a religion by your own!”.
    When teaching by example comes into play, it should be read exactly…. LOL

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Jeff Hawkin’s breakdown of scientology ethics book is The primer for understanding scientology, including those who were once immersed in it’s toxic stew. Few could ever do so in his calm and reserved manner. For most of us, the mere mention of it makes the blood boil and our heads explode.

    The true and only purpose of Hubbard’s ethics system is keep the free labor force from escaping and the customers paying. The profit margins that are expected in this business keep escalating to self imploding levels. It is The reason why ethics levels have concurrently risen to such tortuous and disastrous levels over the decades. Miscavige has taken margins to new heights: 5% expenses for tents and off the clock cops and 95% percent pure IAS profits for example.

    There is no scientology without his ethics system. It does not matter if it’s practiced inside corporate or outside the bubble. Scientology is always right and always work and if not, it is because of Your ethics. Either you were naughty and went past a misunderstood word or you are connected to some nasty SP which you must hunt down and kick to the curb. You also have crimes which you must “discover” and do amends for again. If you get a cold, you are connected to a scary SP. All illnesses stem from an ethics situation. You can decide not to use Fair Game, but that is just 1/1000th of the ethics system. You can Not get ill without an SP and personally having crimes. There is no scientology without ethics. Period.

    And I hope any lurkers out there didn’t miss Jeff’s statement that there is No One On the Post of IJC! I have said this many times over for those of you waiting for months or years to get answers, or solutions to injustice that is now the norm all around you. If you get any answer at all, it is a rubber stamp form or one that makes no sense and/or completely off policy and unjust in it’s reply. If it takes more than 2 weeks for a reply, it is a No Report and that means no one is actually on post. The Only solution to the horror show you are experiencing right now is to stop supporting suppression. Just following orders? Oh really? Stop screaming, start walking.

    • MaxSpaceman

      If you get a cold, you are connected to a scary SP [suppressive person]. All illnesses
      stem from an ethics situation. You can Not get ill without an SP and personally having crimes
      .”

      The fear and paranoia this policy induces in each and every $cientology member. “I got the flu — who around me is a suppressive person? Gastro-intestinal problem arose– what slime ball around me is so suppressive, making me ill?”

      This is one of the most destructive aspects of membership in $cientology Inc.

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        Gastro-intestinal problems? The SP is the one who ordered the rice and beans that made them sick…

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          hahahaha. No wait, you’re right! And you can’t afford Gax-X on staff pay.

        • PlainOld Thetan

          Don’t forget that Miscavige once got sick from a bad shrimp. But he wasn’t PTS, right?

          • Cat Daddy

            http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/11/lana_mitchell_scientology_tom_cruise_poisoned.php

            “Australia’s Bryan Seymour has produced some of that country’s biggest
            scoops about Scientology in recent years, and he has a diverting item in
            this Today Tonight piece about Lana Mitchell, who helped to
            lavish gourmet meals on Scientology leader David Miscavige at the
            church’s secretive desert headquarters in California — until, that is,
            she was accused of feeding a bad shrimp to Tom Cruise, and as a result
            lost her job, lost her family, and lost her friends.”

          • Baby

            I thought it was Tommy boy who got sick from the shrimp..

            Too much info in my brain..ha

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            The bad shrimp was the SP. The COB shrimp was the PTS who pulled it in.

      • Anonymous

        “Gastro-intestinal problem arose– what slime ball around me is so suppressive, making me ill?”

        Chef Boyardee?

    • Priscilla

      THDNE, I so appreciate your explanations of the soul-sucking nature of this cult. Jeff’s cool-headed approach is valuable. But equally valuable are your comments of how deeply wounding the policies are.

    • Anonymous

      “And I hope any lurkers out there didn’t miss Jeff’s statement that there is No One On the Post of IJC”

      At one point, incredibly and if IIRC, (then) church spokeshole Tommy Davis actually claimed that HE was also holding the post of International Justice Chief…which if true, is just about everything one needs to know about ecclesiastical justice in Scientology.

      • Robert Eckert

        Wow, I hadn’t heard that one. Can anybody find a source?

        • Observer
        • Anonymous

          OT VIII Geir Isene make this comment:

          “Given that Tommy Davis is the International Justice Chief and seeing how he so blatantly lies on camera… no, I don’t think I will give him a call” in this post on his blog:

          http://elysianchakorta.wordpress.com/category/my-timeline/.

          The above was found via very quick Google search.

          If I recall correctly, Davis told also Larry Anderson at some point that he (Davis) was the acting IJC, thus appealing over Tommy’s head was not going to get him (Larry) anywhere in his dispute with the church over over a repayment request.

          With a bit of time, I’m pretty sure several references can be found.

          • Cat Daddy
          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Ah, there’s your source…Tommy Davis himself. Um, he was lying on the spot, like every good sci spokesperson is trained to do.

            • Anonymous

              The issue of whether Tommy was in fact ever IJC (even if only in an acting capacity) would appear to be in doubt.

              Following the ESMB thread provided above by Cat Daddy shows a feisty conversation between informed ex’s who adamantly declare it is impossible because it would “violate policy” (HEH!) and others who think it is possible, at least on an “acting” basis, because INT Management had been decimated by wee Davey and loyalty trumped Org Boards in every case. At the time Tommy (may have been) acting as IJC, he was certainly one of Miscavige’s very few remaining loyal and trusted lieutenants.

              I haven’t (and am not going to) invest the time to track this one down.

              The context of my memory about it is comments by several high profile people (e.g. Isene, Anderson) who had fled the church and after being declared wrote to IJC and received a direct response from Tommy Davis who was the primary church spokeshole at the time.

              It could be that Tommy responded because of the flap potential of their high-profile departure, it could be untrue that he responded at all, it could be their was no official IJC (which many people have opined) and it could be a lot of other things too.

              Tommy Davis at one time being the acting IJC would not surprise me in the slightest, but I’m willing to also submit that at best, it is a rumor until a good source reference (or two) is obtained.

              I’ll submit this:

              There is nothing like real justice available in Scientology, whether from official “on-policy” terminals or via the direct edict of Miscavige or his henchman. That much I think can be agreed upon.

          • OrangySky

            Good catch.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Hah, I missed that gem.

  • Still_On_Your_Side

    Miscavige’s lawyers have not asked for a protective order as his lawyers did in other lawsuits, and, to my knowledge haven’t produced a privilege log identifying the reasons why certain documents have not been produced. Yet, out of the blue, surveillance records that the court ordered to be produced are labelled “attorneys’ eyes only.” This smacks of desparation. These lawyers know that Ray Jeffrey is going to demand, and Judge Waldrip is going to order, that they identify the reasons why these documents are so labeled. At most Miscavige’s lawyers have bought a few days, perhaps weeks, before these documents are released publicly and the s**t hits the fan. If Miscavige thinks these attorneys are going to destroy records or not produce them, he is wrong (of course, he could have already done so).

    The irony is, by hiring so many well-regarded Texas practitioners, Miscavige has made a huge mistake. These lawyers are not going to risk the loss of their law license or criminal penalties by conspiring to destroy evidence or bribe judges. They are risking Judge Waldrip’s anger by pushing the envelope, but they did produce records. Miscavige is probably having an unending temper tantrum. Marty Rathbun spilled the beans on how Miscavige sought attorneys in the McPherson case who would “guarantee a victory” and who were so connected to judges Miscavige could “walk into the judge’s chambers, without an appointment.” An affidavit was produced in the Dandar case (I believe) from a judge’s clerk, stating that Miscavige had indeed showed up one day during the course of the McPherson trial, alone, asking to see the judge. It has to be assumed that Miscavige hasn’t changed his legal “strategy.” He probably believed his hired guns would end the Rathbun trial with a few snaps of their “well connected” fingers. Yet, here we are five months later. Not only haven’t they made the case go away, but Miscavige has had to produce his surveillance records and he will have to be deposed. Go figure.

    • HillieOnTheBeach

      I would love to know if the cos has attempted to make their presence known to the judge one way or the other (ie attempted ex-parte or surveillance). Wouldn’t be surprising if they did.

      • pronoia

        I think that Wallace Jefferson has been hired has part of this strategy. That he is being paid big bucks to sit in Waldrip’s courtroom (and there is no reason for an appeals lawyer to do this — that is why transcripts were invented) and scribble shit on his legal pad because Miscavige thinks that it will unnerve Waldrip.

        • HillieOnTheBeach

          I totally agree. What I meant was attempted influence by the cos completely bypassing the legal team.

          • ze moo

            While Wallace Jefferson’s presence is probably a clue to future actions by the clampire, no sitting judge is going to be influenced by his presence. Waltrip knew when he started this case that every time wasting trick would be used. There are so many legal points being raised that some are going to be revisited on the appeal court level. I just don’t see dildo mailing becoming a protected religious sacrament.

            • HillieOnTheBeach

              As the case stands now, I wonder if everyone in the courtroom already knows that the cos is going to lose this case on the merits but have now opted for the long term strategy to overturn it on a technicality.

              Though I think the cos is putting the cart before the horse (duh). There’s the very big issue of Miscavige’s deposition which provides a big clue this pile of dung will settle sooner rather than later.

            • Gerard Plourde

              It’s not going to settle before Ray Jeffrey has the opportunity to depose Miscavige. Remember, this is Mosey’s case – Miscavige has no control to force a settlement.

            • HillieOnTheBeach

              So the question then becomes who wants it most:

              A) A Miscavige deposition
              B) Or none

            • Gerard Plourde

              I think that a deposition of Miscavige is a foregone conclusion – there is no reason to forego it.

            • HillieOnTheBeach

              I hope you’re right.

              Though was it you who a few weeks ago brought up the problem of another legal fight if Judge Waldrip orders the deposition in Texas and getting California to actually enforce the subpoena if Miscavige contests it?

              I wanted to ask more about that at the time, but had to step away from the computer. If you can provide more details or correct me if I misunderstood, it’d be appreciated.

            • Gerard Plourde

              My thinking was that since DM is in California and is contesting that he has any contact with Texas and the day-to-day activities of the cult his attorneys might try to contest that the Texas court has jurisdiction over him. I suppose that a California Court would rule that Texas possesses sufficient jurisdiction to order a deposition to determine whether he should remain as a defendant. They might order that the deposition be conducted so that he doesn’t have to physically travel to Texas.

            • Eclipse-girl

              If the judge wants David deposed in front of him to avoid delays about objections during the question, what would CA courts do?

              I do not think Waldrip is the type of person who would travel to CA for the depo. He is the judge and he is the power in the court room, not any of the plaintiffs or defendants.

            • Gerard Plourde

              They could have the deposition carried over closed-circuit TV. This would allow DM to be in California but also allow J. Waldrip to rule on objections in real time.

            • Eclipse-girl

              OK. Would Davey be able to be deposed in a location of his convenience say Gold or Flag, or would it have to be an agreed on neutral location?

            • TX Lawyer

              Anywhere is fine, as long as it’s agreed by the parties. If it proceeds to discovery on the merits (not just jurisdiction), Rule 199 allows the deposition to be set for wherever the witness resides, the county where the suit is pending (if the witness is a party, as Miscavige would be), or any convenient location that the court orders.

            • HillieOnTheBeach

              “I suppose that a California Court would rule that Texas possesses
              sufficient jurisdiction to order a deposition to determine whether he
              should remain as a defendant.”

              There goes several few thousand taxpayer bucks and a coupla months.

              Oh, and more regging.

            • TX Lawyer

              I can’t speak to California, but per my comments above, it is very unlikely that the judge would order Miscavige to be deposed in Texas while his special appearance is still pending. That jurisdictional depo will take place in California or Florida or wherever else he’s residing these days. If the special appearance is denied, however, then the court will have full authority to order his deposition on the merits to take place in Comal County, Clearwater, or any other convenient place.

            • Robert Eckert

              If he defies the deposition order he can be declared to have defaulted the case.

            • TX Lawyer

              Not right away, but eventually. And he won’t be able to challenge the default when Mrs. Rathbun attempts to enforce it, as he has already appeared in the case here in Texas. He could have elected not to respond in Texas, take the default judgment, then challenge Texas’ jurisdiction in his home state’s courts. That’s very risky, for obvious reasons, but now he’s stuck here unless he can weasel out via the special appearance.

            • TX Lawyer

              In my experience (and I’ve done a number of special appearances, on both sides), such depositions are usually done in the state where the specially appearing defendant resides, although they are sometimes taken in Texas if the parties agree to it (usually because it’s cheaper to fly the witness to Texas than to fly multiple lawyers to New York or whatever). I don’t know of any case law that says you can’t compel them to appear for depo in Texas before the special appearance is ruled on, but I wouldn’t ever try to compel a depo to be conducted here when there is still a question whether the court actually has jurisdiction over the defendant.

            • OrangySky

              “Special Appearance” – sounds like a Guest Star credit on a TV series.

            • woodrose

              This how I see it, too. I’m hoping the Scilons are forced to pay big, not only in money, to avoid Davey’s deposition, which they seem frantic to do.

            • Missionary Kid

              I’ve posted an unscientific survey at http://tonyortega.org/2013/12/15/sunday-funnies-scientology-celebrates-the-holidays/#comment-1167327042 You can see how other people voted and make your own choices. You can vote for contradicting outcomes, but you can only vote once per Disqus. Enjoy and have fun.

            • woodrose

              If DM really, really does not want to be deposed — and there is good reason to believe he feels that way — he can attempt to settle the case by asking Monique what it would take to settle. Ray and Monique will then be in a position to dictate terms, perhaps better than what they could expect to win at trial.

              My suggested demands by Monique:

              200 million bucks — one million for every day of harassment, plus another million for the dildo. A substantial money figure will take a real bite out of the cult’s finances. Dream Big, Sugar Ray!

              Permanent restraining order on all Scilon entities from harassing or surveilling her.

              No gag order, she remains free to speak her mind on all issues.

              A letter of confession and responsibility by DM and the COS outlining their harassment of her, approved by Monique, to be posted on all exit doors of all Scilon COS, ABLE, WISE, delphi, Narconon, etc facilities, worldwide, for a year.

              An enforceable agreement that the Scilons will allow law enforcement into all their facilities worldwide, annually, to offer freedom and safe passage to all present, including inmates of all RPFs.

              There are some ideas I’ve seen suggested by others, too, including demanding that COS cooperate with publishing an accurate biography of ElWrongCuppard, to be distributed at Scilon expense to all the millions of people in their files. And demand they remove homosexuality from their 1.1 tone scale.

            • Casabeca

              These are some beautiful dreams!

            • Eclipse-girl

              amend the NO gag rule to include Marty. David did all of this to intimidate Marty.

              Nice ideas on the letter of confession and responsibility. I think it should be printed in all local newspapers in cities that have an org or mission.

            • Lady Squash

              You dream big. I approve. It’s not going to happen, but we can dream.

            • Gerard Plourde

              These are good terms. The issue of a gag order isn’t necessary. Because it’s Mosey who’s suing DM, he isn’t in any position to demand one.

            • Lady Squash

              I wonder if this is in part a moral crusade for Marty. Imagine being able to bring down the monster that you helped to create. That would restore the balance in one’s universe, I would imagine.

            • OrangySky

              A wise trial lawyer recently said to me, never mediate or settle before you have all the evidence. Until you have all the evidence, how do you know what the disposition of each side is? How do you know how much to settle for? How do you know what leverage you might or might not have vis-a-vis enough evidence to make your opponent a little worried that you might slaughter them in court or in front of a jury?
              Ray knows this. Ray’s not going to fold his tents too soon, nor will Mosey, I reckon.

            • Gerard Plourde

              Agreed.

            • Eclipse-girl

              I think Waldrip has that opinion, also.
              Everything that he writes will be well reasoned, deliberative, and hopefully appeal proof.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          He’s there to take notes for the appeal.

          • pronoia

            That would be the shore story — as he really does not need to do that. If he was seriously going to file an appeal, he would have to comb through the court transcripts anyway. Which is why I believe the “real” reason he is there is because that Miscavige thinks that his presence will “get” to Waldrip.

            • TX Lawyer

              I assure you, it is 100% normal for appellate lawyers to sit in during trial court proceedings, at least in high stakes cases. It helps to have an appellate lawyer there so the trial guys can better preserve (and sometimes even create) error by the trial court, no to mention that they learn what happened first hand rather than having to go combing through the transcripts.

            • DeElizabethan

              Makes a lot of sense. Thanks

            • OrangySky

              “Create” Error? That sounds like it might well be a Scientology strategy.

        • Eclipse-girl

          Waldrip does not appear to be un nerved by this tactic.

          It does mean that Wallace is getting is $1 000 + per hour for sitting in a court and taking notes.
          I am hoping that when Wallace gets the $ he needs to educate his kids (the reason he stated for leaving the Texas Supreme court) he will walk away from this case.

          • pronoia

            Eggzactly. Wallace is coming out ahead no matter what. And very few judges would actually be enturbulated by such a tactic.

      • Eclipse-girl

        I thought Waldrip has his own past experience with the FBI.
        He is not stupid.
        He appears to be a calm, rational person.
        I hope he is able to protect his family, and pets.

        DM is not ex – parte no matter what he thinks. Judge Waldrip agrees there is reason enough to depose him

        • Robert Eckert

          The words ex parte refer to legal proceedings or meetings in judge’s chambers where one side is not represented. There are conditions where it is appropriate (say, a woman needs a divorce from a husband who has fled the country) but usually it is very frowned upon.

          • Eclipse-girl

            OK, I stand corrected. Still wouldn’t that show bias from the court?

            • Robert Eckert

              You bet it would. Judges have been removed from the bench for that kind of thing.

            • valshifter

              Ex parte sound very close to bribery or at leas it would open the door to it. that sounds fishy why would one party only be allowed on Judges chambers and not the other? and does that has to be approved by Judge? and does the other party has to be notified that, that is happening?

            • Robert Eckert

              Yes, it is a serious “appearance of impropriety”

    • Sunny Sands

      My take on Miscavige going to a judge’s chambers ex-parte is that it makes Miscavige look like he doesn’t have confidence in his attorneys.

      • OrangySky

        Miscavige doesn’t have confidence in anyone but Miscavige and it’s not confidence he has, it’s delusional megolomania.

    • Anonymous

      Yes…Miscavige’s attempts at Ex Parte repartee show what an unthinking bully (and clown) he really is.

      To Miscavige, having a one-sided conversation with a supposedly impartial judge makes perfect sense.

      Fortunately that horse is out of the barn and unlikely to be repeated successfully.

      Now if Miscavige can just be put out to pasture for good….

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist
        • Anonymous

          That looks too nice.

          I was thinking more along these lines:

      • http://www.4chan.org/ Vistaril

        Captain David ♥ Miscavige isn’t the problem. He’s the symptom.

        • Anonymous

          His behavior is the logical outcome of the culture set in motion by Hubbard, that is for sure…

    • Eclipse-girl

      My question has to do with the timing of the anti – SLAPP ruling. I remember lawyer Cedillo saying stuff about 90 days. The anti – SLAPP motion is not supposed to take a long time.

      If scientology uses these delaying tactics, and the Judge has to rule because of time constraint, can scientology appeal the Judge’s ruling?

      • Robert Eckert

        Yes, the deadline for an appeals-free ruling on the anti-SLAPP passed in December. They get an appeal of that thing when Waldrip gets around to denying them.

        • Eclipse-girl

          That just seems wrong.
          Can it be shown that it was actions by scientology that caused the delay?
          They are the one that filed the motion. They are the ones the delayed. They shouldn’t be allowed to appeal. UGH

          • Robert Eckert

            It is the appeals court which will have to rule they have no right to be complaining.

          • TX Lawyer

            There is no “the defendants are a-holes” exception to the right of appeal under the Texas anti-SLAPP statute.

            • Eclipse-girl

              at times I think there should be.

            • OrangySky

              Clearly, a blatant failure of Wog Law.

            • SciWatcher

              And the statute is the weaker for it, haha!

        • TX Lawyer

          There is no such thing as an “appeals-free ruling” on an anti-SLAPP ruling in Texas. If the motion is granted, then the case against the defendant is dismissed, and the plaintiff can appeal it just like any other final judgment (although the court might have to sever it if there are other defendants, but severance should be pretty routine in such a case). If the motion is denied, then the defendant has the right to appeal it immediately, per section 27.008 of the Texas Civil Practice & Remedies Code.

          The actual deadlines are as follows, per sections 27.003-27.005:

          Filing the anti-SLAPP motion: 60 days after service of the plaintiff’s lawsuit

          Hearing on the motion: 60 days later, unless there is a showing of good cause or an agreement of the parties, in which case the deadine is 90 days after the motion, except . . . .

          Deadline if the court orders discovery: 120 days.

          Ruling due on the motion: 30 days after the hearing. If there is no ruling, the motion is deemed overruled by operation of law, and the defendant can immediately appeal.

          So expect the real hearing to occur sometime before March 4, and the ruling to come within 30 days thereafter.

          • Robert Eckert

            “Ruling due on the motion: 30 days after the hearing. If there is no ruling, the motion is deemed overruled by operation of law, and the defendant can immediately appeal.” Ah, I see. I thought if the ruling was within 30 days, it would only be appealable with permission of the judge like other interlocutory appeals, but if the ruling was late, then defendant had an appeal as of right.

            • TX Lawyer

              The deadlines are confusing and fairly unworkable given the typical pace of Texas trial courts and the likelihood of obstructionism by defendants who are filing an anti-SLAPP motion in the first place because they don’t want to get stuck in discovery. The legislature added the 120-day deadline last year, which will hopefully make things a little more realistic.

    • DamOTclese2

      If the sociopath walked in to a Judge’s chambers and walked out, it was because his crime syndicate had something blackmail-able on the Judge, would be my first guess. With Judge Waldrip the insane crook has found nothing he thinks can be used to blackmail him with.

    • TX Lawyer

      “Miscavige’s lawyers have not asked for a protective order as his lawyers did in other lawsuits . . .”

      Actually, per Tony’s story on November 8, there was a hearing on a motion for entry of a protective order. No word on what the outcome of that hearing was, as it apparently got buried in all of that day’s anti-SLAPP filing and the supporting affidavits. I don’t know whether an ever got signed, but Ray Jeffrey’s quote sure makes it sound like he’s respecting one until he can bring the issue to the attention of the court.

      Incidentally, Tony’s October 19 story also mentions the efforts to come up with a protective order, with Jeffrey commenting that it was expected to be based on the Western District of Texas (i.e., federal court) form. That form is routinely used in the Austin and San Antonio areas, and it does include an attorney eyes only category. I would expect most judges to go along with that unless they had good reason to believe that it would be abused, and I would also expect any order to include provisions for challenging it and punishing parties for its abuse.

      • Still_On_Your_Side

        Thank you for having such sharp eyes. I don’t see any reason for having a protective order in a tort case where the plaintiff has been harassed and stalked. A protective order is common in contract disputes or IP cases, and cases where trade secrets are in play, but not in these kinds of cases. Nonetheless, church lawyers ask for them almost pro forma, it seems, as a way of keeping the media in the dark, and out of the courtroom. Unfortunately, Ray Jeffrey has no choice but to honor the “attorneys eyes only ” legend until Judge Waldrip rules on it. I look forward to hearing what Ray Jeffrey has to say about the privilege log the church lawyers were supposed to deliver, if they did, and what Judge Waldrip has to say about the “attorneys eyes only” ploy.

    • http://www.4chan.org/ Vistaril

      . . . If Miscavige thinks these attorneys are going to destroy records or not produce them, he is wrong (of course, he could have already done so) . . .

      Yep. Its not like Scientology hasn’t done it before:

      ” . . . Later, I was informed that a second court order was issued to produce Wollersheim’s entire file. Faced with the prospect of having to produce the entire file, Miscavige gave orders that the entire file simply be destroyed by being pulped.

      Pursuant to Miscavige’s orders, I ordered Rick Aznaran to take Wollersheim’s Pre-Clear files to the recycling plant in Riverside to be pulped. Several hours after I gave the order to have Wollersheim’s Pre-Clear files destroyed, Rick Aznaran returned and confirmed that the records had been pulped and even showed me a small bottle of pulped material. “Here’s what’s left,” he said . . .

      ^^^ Affidavit of Jesse Prince (20 August 1999)

  • 3feetback-of-COS

    Hawkins again shows us how scientology is really a form of fundamentalist spiritual/emotional terrorism!

  • ze moo

    The use of ‘ethics’ in $cientology is a classical double edged sword. How many clams actually believe and use Lrooons wacky rules in non-clam situations? You might get away with it at a clam owned company, but no where else would such behavior be tolerated.

    No, by the time you are indoctrinated into clam ethics, your case supervisor and the staff at your local org have your credit info and a plan to get your money and then your servitude. Any one who drops out (and most do, fewer then 5% actually get to OT3) gets on the recover assets lists where the salespeople keep up the pressure until the customer gets nasty enough to reach SP status or caves in and spends their money at the org again.

    Breaking free of all the learned cognitive dissonance is not easy. By this stage the customer has had lots of hypnotic ‘auditing’ and their judgement is not what it could be. I find threats to a customers ‘eternity’ hilarious, but then again logic doesn’t enter in to such questions. Any one who would question and object to the ‘eternity’ problem has already split.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      What members specifically fear is that they will spend eternity in their current horrifying condition. The longer you have been exposed to the mental manipulation, the worse off you become. By the time you get to OT8, you’re fucked up big time. Those still in not only are OT’s, they are recycled OT’s several times over, broke and broken in every way, alone or with family who they have put through the same twisted tortures.

      The thought of never getting any relief from the kind of stress they are experiencing 24/7 is enough to drive them over the edge or over to dark side of spying on mom or kids, financial fraud, and a host of self flagellation measures. THIS is what “losing their eternity” actually means to them. It’s not pretty and yes, it is insane.

      http://i.imgur.com/GUEQll8s.jpg

  • Anonymous

    From Jefferson Hawkins interview with Tony above:

    “The final section, interestingly, gives the rules for petitions. He states that anyone can petition any senior executive on any matter, and may not be disciplined for submitting a petition. But there are rules.”

    “Collective petitions are considered a crime as they are “an effort to hide the actual petitioner, and petitions may not demand a Committee of Evidence or punishment of any kind for executives.”

    The second sentence provides quite a bit of insight into the Scientology / Hubbard trap. Individual Scientologists are admonished to not discuss their “cases” or the events in their auditing sessions. They are not to read “entheta” articles in the press. They are not to “forward an enemy line” by discussing rumors. On and on…examples abound of limited communication by and between Scientologists about anything except their post (if on staff) or their generic bridge progress (if public.)

    This phenomenon is ATOMIZED FEALTY…meaning that each individual Scientologist has a “personal relationship” with Ron…not unlike many charismatic religious groups attempt to inculcate into their followers about God or whatever deity / messiah is fundamental to their collective belief system.

    In the case of Scientology, the ATOMIZED FEALTY takes the form of each individual Scientologist “fully duplicating” Ron’s teaching in his written and taped works. These works are NOT to be discussed with others while studying, as no interpretation is allowed…only rote “duplication.”

    The end phenomenon of this is that individual Scientologist frequently think of Ron as their best friend, even though in most cases they have never met him. Especially in Hubbard’s earlier and more broadly published works he conveys a sense of friendliness and concern that encourages a sense in the reader / listener that he (Ron) really cares about them as a person and about mankind as a species.

    But woe unto anyone who gets together with others to discuss “justice” or implement Ron’s works without giving Ron the lion’s shares of the money and credit.

    This is the mirror image opposite of the ATOMIZED FEALTY meme…most of the nastiest Guardian’s Office and now OSA’s actions were / are aimed at competitors, whether they be former Scientologist’s or never-ins (like psychiatrists) that might scoop up a farthing or two that then won’t go into first Hubbard’s, and now Miscavige’s, pocketbook.

    • Eclipse-girl

      I have noticed many indies display that Loyalty to Ron even though he is the man behind the crimes of scientology.

      • Anonymous

        Yep.

        One of the things that tends to loosen the loyalty bond however is when “Indies” start to read uncensored historical information about Hubbard on the internet.

        Some folks that were in the Sea Org for decades before fleeing are stunned to learn that there even was such a thing as an “Indie Movement.” That is how tightly information is controlled inside.

        A frequent first step out of Scientology goes like this: The “tech” is good, the management was bad.

        Often times for those who do not completely drop their adherence to auditing etc., they arrive at a sort of decompression plateau that goes like this:

        “I don’t really care about Hubbard’s flaws as a person, the auditing tech works and I’m going to keep applying it.”

        But eventually for most…out means out and there is no going back or even keeping a toe in the water.

        • Eclipse-girl

          From my cursory knowledge of the history, there have been indies or people who broke away from Ron’s control since the beginning.

          • Anonymous

            Yes…from the very, very beginning…clear back to pre-Scientology Dianetics.

            Dr. Joesph Winters, among others, comes to mind.

            • Mooser

              Is every musician content to be a sideman, even in the greatest band? Nope, sometimes you would rather be your own boss, even if it is a smaller operation.
              It’s not as if running a phony medical or spiritual cult is exactly an unknown science in America. No enterprising young man would want to be caught under Ron’s thumb when they had ideas of their own, profitable ideas, to try.

            • Eclipse-girl

              Many people, in the early years, left not to make their cult, but because they realized Ron was mean, vindictive, cruel, and couldn’t be trusted.

              Indies of newest generation are often surprised to find out there have been indies since the 1950s

      • Michael Hobson

        Most Independent Scientologists display loyalty to the theory and practice of the Scientology-applied religious philosophy and what they feel to be the spiritual benefits they have gained and are gaining from its proper application. Hubbard’s personal life, personal misconduct and organizational misdeeds do not in any way affect whether or not one obtained or obtains satisfactory results from the application of Scientology (no TM) in ones life.

        Persons whose faith in Scientology(no TM) are dependent upon Hubbard the man and not the practice of the subject can and do have that faith shaken such that they depart Scientology (Corporate or Independent). Of these, those who suffered abuse of themselves, friends and/or loved ones may eventually become avowed enemies of the entire subject, rather than focusing their (truly righteous) wrath at the persons who actually harmed them or theirs.

        Ron Hubbard is 28 years dead and his ashes scattered over the sea. The man in charge of the organization and ordering the abuses is David “Darth Midget” Miscavige. DM is personally responsible for the evil he now commits and orders committed – I assure you Ron Hubbard is not somehow forcing DM to act as he does from beyond the grave.

        • DeElizabethan

          That may be true in part, but DM is still operating and controlling under the founders policies. Therefore the policy and who is controlling it is the harm, imo.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Your message has been received. The dogs have seen the error of their ways and will comply. Roger and out. No really. Out, Spot, Out!

          http://i.imgur.com/u9yOCs6l.jpg

        • Sherbet

          Michael — I’ve got to say I admire you for speaking your mind. So many times we get strafed by some anonymous indie or lrh apologist who has nothing of value to say and no facts to back up his/her opinion. While I don’t agree with you — you’ll find little agreement in the Bunker — I have to tell you it is refreshing to have you voicing “the other side,” instead of just guerilla hit-and-run in the form of meaningless downvotes or insults from a nameless, faceless “Guest.” Dialog is great.

        • Eclipse-girl

          TY for trying to explain it to me.

          I am a never in. I understand that independents belief what they want to belief.

          As long as you do not break the law, or are involved in criminal activities, then you are free to believe what you wish.

          As a never in, as an atheist, I am dismayed by those who think you can practice scientology by ignoring Hubbard’s life time of lies.

        • Once_Born

          History is full of great men who led foul personal lives but nevertheless contributed things of great worth to humanity – so I agree that Hubbard’s personal life and abuses (or Miscavige’s for that matter) have no bearing on the value (or otherwise) of his work.

          Where I (and most of the people here) differ with you on the question of the supposed value of Hubbard’s work. The concensus is that Hubbard’s work contains absolutely nothing of value, and any’”spiritual benefits” gained from ‘the tech’ are illusory. In fact, application of ‘the tech’ creates a toxic social environment that promotes abuse.

          Nobody who has argued here for the benefits of Scientology has managed to put up a convincing case for it – we have never seen any evidence or sustained argument for any benefit other than a diffuse subjective experience that neither be tested nor duplicated. A nice dream, or ‘runners high’ seem to be far more beneficial.

          I, for one, would welcome a proper debate about these claims (of the kind that corporate Scientologists are forbidden to mount).

          • Cat Daddy

            his work. yeah right

            • DeElizabethan

              There have been two or more replies to MH and no matter how many time refresh, go away, come back, they are still gone.
              Disqus seems to be hungry today and is eating comments.

          • Captain Howdy

            Those who still believe in the tech will say that they “know’ that it works from personal experience and that science hasn’t caught up to LRH yet.

            This is why they always harp about going to an org and trying it for yourself.

            vaLLarrr use to ask us if we thought we loved our mothers or if we KNEW we loved our mothers in hir attempts to defend the tech as being empirically provable.

            It’s all self delusional mind games they’re playing with themselves.

            Captain Howdy
            Independent Degenerate

            • Once_Born

              “Those who still believe in the tech will say that they “know’ that it works from personal experience”

              That has been my experience… with the very few people I have ‘spoken’ to about it.
              All the same, I would still be fascinated in learning how anyone who believes that ‘the tech’ works justifies this belief.

              I’m unlikely to be ‘converted’ (to put it mildly) but it does not hurt to gain an insight into the mindset of a believer, especially from an articulate person who, I hope, is prepared to debate the question in a civilised matter.

          • Robert Eckert

            When the very subject of the purported “contribution” is guidance about how to live your life, the personal life of the “contributor” is much more relevant than in the case of an artist or a physical scientist.

            • Mooser

              And when a person is purported to be a scientist, he needs to show his work, and his method.

              Anotherwords, they’ve got Ron coming and going. If what Ron can tell you is how to live your life, well, we have his example. If Ron’s got something scientific top tell us, his own foibles not withstanding, well, then, he needs to do science, which he never did.

              Anyway you look at it, there’s nothing there.

            • Once_Born

              Enough reliable information about Hubbard’s personal life is available to demonstrate that he was a nasty piece of work. However, it is still possible for him to have something significant to say about how you should live your life. If it wasn’t, one corrupt lawmaker could bring the concept of the rule of law into question and only saints could contribute to (real) moral philosophy.

              Besides, Hubbard’s writings and {lectures} are freely available. We can read and listen to masses of it, and pass judgement on what he actually said and wrote. I have, and found it to be self-evidently incoherent and self-contradictory nonsense.

              On the other side of the coin, if Hubbard had lived an exemplary life, this would not give his words greater weight – they would still be nonsense.

              To my mind, the very last hiding place for a belief in Scientology is the claim that, despite Hubbard’s personal and intellectual failings, his creation can, nevertheless be beneficial.
              This is what we see in Independent Scientologists. We should engage with such people, when given an opportunity.

        • Mooser

          “Ron Hubbard’s personal life, personal misconduct and organizational
          misdeeds do not in any way affect whether or not one obtained or obtains
          satisfactory results from the application of Scientology (no TM) in
          ones life.”

          Then why are both Scientology and Indies at such pains to hide it? And also, if the facts, simply the facts of where he was and what doing at any given time, immediately makes very questionable any mention of “research” or “work” in connection with Hubbard.

          So yes, in order to claim any veracity, any credibility any connection with anything except greed, confabulation and mendacity, you must at the very least obfuscate, if not entirely ignore, the facts, simply where he was and what he was doing, no moral consideration whatsoever, there’s still nothing there.

        • cdub

          Also where the tech came from. As someone here in this thread noted, since it deals with telling people how to live their lives, the origins of the tech are very significant. Because I know for myself when I found out Ron’s ties to Aleister Crowley and occult affirmations and all that garbage then I’d had enough. Let me outta here, indie or whatever.

        • Baby

          His Vile Ashes are not scattered over the sea..

          They are still in the air until the end of this Evil Cult. They are imprinted on every crime committed. There is a layer of ashes on each family destroyed by death, financial ruin , disconnection and physical , mental and emotional abuse.

          DM merely ran with the ” Scripture” written by a Conman, liar and drugged out man.

          Don’t kid yourself for one minute that his Ashes aren’t still ” Blowin in the Wind.. and destroying everything it touches.

          He started it.. DM is merely finishing it.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Wow, effin’ A. Dirty dishes and biker bands workin’ some mojo on your sore feet self!

            • Baby

              Mojo baby…. hahahha .. I got rid of my Expensive New Balance shoes and am wearing stupid ugly Crocs I got at K Mart to do gardening in.. years ago..

              Foot Bliss ever since. .. Still lovin my Biker Bands.. I dressed up as a Biker Chic last week for outside event.. Hilarious.. Biker Chic from a Nursing Home! I was a hit..ha

        • EnthralledObserver

          The ‘tech’ does nothing but exert an ‘effect’ on a person. Whether it be positive or negative is yet to be determined by thorough ‘scientific’ investigation. You are a FOOL to use it without knowing precisely what it is doing to you!

        • Anonymous

          Perhaps so Michael, however I’d say the outcome of the “tech” for it’s originator (Hubbard) sort of makes looking to that “tech” for solutions to ones own life’s problems not a particularly good idea.

          By fairly objective criteria….he died alone…in the dark…and in pain.

          http://www.autopsyfiles.org/reports/Other/hubbard,%20l.r._report.pdf

        • Cat Daddy
        • OrangySky

          Though I might indulge in an intellectual argument with you if it we’re almost 2 am on a Thurs, I really respect the clarity and logic in your argument. Thank you for posting here in such a cordial and well-thought out manner. I must add, though, that I do think all the exes who post here and at ESMB, etc – even those who are both anti-Hubbard and anti-Scientology the subject – also DO focus their righteous anger at DM. I think DM may well be one of the most reviled humans in current history.

  • Bruce Hines

    Thanks, Jeff! Your analyses have been very helpful to me.

  • Cymboli

    The church just hopes they can bankrupt the Rathbuns which is why they continue to play legal tricks and mind games. This is a mockery of the judicial system.

    • http://BareFacedMessiah.wordpress.com/ BareFacedMessiah

      And guess what. For sure the provided material is not complete.

    • Eclipse-girl

      The idea of bankrupting the opponent is why anti – SLAPP laws were created.
      It is a mockery of the system that scientology played that card.
      It is a mockery of the system that scientology is delaying the anti – SLAPP motion by a “for lawyer’s eye only” stamp on the evidence.

    • DamOTclese2

      I hope that Monique added another $1 million to the demands for this latest act of racketeering.

  • M from Toronto

    Sort of Off Topic, but shows how ‘the most ethical people on the planet’ roll; father of Sons of Anarchy actor Johnny Lewis sued for refusing to turn over the estate money for his young daughter. I notice that ‘oh wait, it probably has gone to CO$’ pops up in the comments right away. The more the general public is exposed to this type of information, they see the pattern of behaviour right away. aJohnny Lewis Baby Mama Claims Johnny’s Dad is Screwing Baby Over

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      If this is true, then I have to leave a message for Davona and Johnny: No longer matters what you once were long ago when I knew you. You are now the Poster Child as the Ideal Scientologist. You set a good example for scum of the earth sociopaths everywhere. I hope Old Age hits both of your rotten, putrid asses with a full load of everything it’s got. Except for heart attacks since neither of you have one. I will not be alone when I dance at your funeral. You will not be missed.

      http://i.imgur.com/OYAFHWb.jpg

  • media_lush

    Miscavige’s defence in this case has been one of the most spectacular one step forward two steps back in legal history (probably, ed). I’m sure it will be used in law schools as the classic “how NOT to defend a rich client” in the future.

    • Observer

      Davey isn’t giving any his lawyers any choice. I imagine that without his micromanagement they would be doing things quite a bit differently.

      • Missionary Kid

        They also would have advised him not to do many of the things he does. Of course, hubris will Keep Davy Doing (KDD) what he’s always done.
        The world has changed, Davy. Tick tock, tick tock, tick tock.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          It’s called KSW: Keeping Sociopaths Wanking

          • Missionary Kid
            • Eclipse-girl

              .

            • Missionary Kid

              Good, now their avatar is on one of my lists. I like it!

            • Eclipse-girl

              I erred. The person was using “Keep Scientology Wanking.” I read Hole’s comment too quickly

              But now they may change their name. i think I would if I were them.

            • Missionary Kid

              Keep Scientology Wanking has been on my list for quite a while. ;-)

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              {Do I need a copyright/trademark lawyer?}

            • Baby

              What did I miss?

            • Missionary Kid

              Someone accidentally came up with Keeping Sociopaths Wanking because they misread Keeping $cientologists Wanking, which is an avatar for someone who visits this site. I put it on my list of KSW meanings. Now, both are there. No big deal.

    • Eclipse-girl

      I would think in Law schools it may be used as an example of how to choose your clients, wisely.

  • DamOTclese2

    So the Scientology crooks handed over selected documents that they feel won’t further incriminate themselves, right? They did not actually hand over everything that was ordered by the Judge, sure.

    • Eclipse-girl

      But it will take Marty and Mosey examining the evidence to be sure that ALL of it was handed over.

      They didn’t try this crap – ass tactic with Laura DeCrescenzo.

  • Gerard Plourde

    According to the report, Ray Jeffrey said that the Church of Scientology designated the records as “attorney’s eyes only”. I doubt that the lawyers for the cult will oppose his request to have the designation removed since they did not seek a protective order or submit a privilege log. We can probably chalk the designation up to the cult members who assembled the materials trying to keep them out of the hands of Hubbard’s arch-enemy, SMERSH.

    • Eclipse-girl

      Just another delaying tactic in a motion (anti – SJAPP) that is supposed to be handled quickly.

    • DamOTclese2

      One would think that David is afraid of the real world or something, huh? One would think that the sociopath’s pretend Svp3r P0w3rz don’t actually exists since the crook has to run and hide at every turn.

    • DamOTclese2

      Looking around the Intertubes I find that the designation is usually done when a company wants to protect trade secrets, it is never used to try to hide criminal activities from plaintiffs such as these crooks are attempting.

  • Verve

    “Attorney’s eyes only.”
    I ask our legal brethren, have you ever heard of this before, ’cause I haven’t (note- I have no judicial training). I have no idea how evidence can be held from the actual plaintiff.

    Someone help me out here, please?

    • DamOTclese2

      Well, a Hearsay Google Finds This commentary on the designation. It looks like the violently insane criminals are trying to pretend that the evidence of their crimes is some how trade secrets, in effect.

      • richelieu jr

        Well, they do hold many outstanding patents in assholery and general intrusive dickishness.

        And MIscavige wrote the book in Napoleon Complex to the Umpteenth Power, so there’s that…

        • Ruby

          assholery. :) I may have to borrow that one.

    • Eclipse-girl

      I believe that is has been used for corporate secrets or trade secrets. But I do not know where else.

    • Verve

      Thanks E-Girl & DamO-
      I never even thought of “Trade Secrets” (which actually makes sense in the normal world). Religions can have ‘trade secrets’? Man, this is one f’d up group.

    • 3feetback-of-COS

      I think we all expected them to come up with some silly tactic. It seems to me they are getting sillier and sillier.

      I suspect their strategy is to annoy the judge so much, that he will say or do something that shows his annoyance. Then they will say the judge was prejudiced and will try to get the case thrown out or further delayed.

      • Verve

        That seems to be their MO. The IRS thing went through like 7 judges or so, right? Sir Dibs though seems like he has his sheeit screwed on tighter than a rhino horn, and won’t fall for their craptastic escapes. Just my opinion from what I’ve read here according to his decisions & comments so far.

        • 3feetback-of-COS

          I agree with you about Waldrip, nonetheless the cult will try to rattle his cage.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Read the comments and you will find the answer you seek.

  • Cat Daddy

    10th of february is coming up again

    David Miscavige BASKING IN THE DEATH OF LISA McPHERSON .mp4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6ux6aO1qp0

    • Anonymous

      Wee Davey forgets to mention that the “unamed” newspaper that investigated Scientology’s covert takeover of downtown Clearwater won a Pulitzer Prize for their 1980 reporting on the church:

      https://www.tampabay.com/company/about-us/awards/pulitzer-prizes.

      Most of the rest of the lies in this video need no refutation…all wee Davey needs to do is keep talking and he will bring the deck of cards down on his own head.

    • EnthralledObserver

      Sooo… the idiot made fun and inferences about the ‘SP’ Times (St Petersburg Times)… and then went on to build the ‘SP’ Building (Super Power). Dumb arse!

  • Mark

    BREAKING NEWS: “Eyes Only” Scientology evidence sent to Ray Jeffrey disclosed!

    [N.B. Items not visible in image: 3-pack 'COB'-size Trojans Ribbed (past January 1998 use-by date); partially-consumed tin 'Altoids' extra-strong breath-mints; leaky burlwood fountain-pen; gearshift-knob purloined from Tom Cruise Humvee; keys to RPF 'Hole' facility on 'IAS Patron' keyring; rumpled sachet Grecian 2000 'Butch Mahogany' touch-up gel; small tube 'Stickphast' toupée-glue; wax image (presumed to be of Leah Remini and/or Tory Christman) with attached pins; faux-leather covered pocket-flask with traces of Macallan Miscavige Special Reserve Single Malt; blister-pack 'Preparation Ouch' suppositories; membership-cards for 'Hemet Warm Hand On Wet Thigh Sauna', 'Dirty Degsy's Depraved Video Mart' (expired) and 'Badonkadonk Lap-dance Parlour (Hollywood Boulevard branch)'. This list is not believed to be complete.] Refresh:

    • Verve

      Bwahahahahahha!
      You win the internet today!

    • Baby

      OMG Mark.. As Howdy once said, ” Winner Winner Chicken Dinner.. ”

      Brilliant

      • Captain Howdy

        I got it from Bury.

        • Baby

          Winner Winner Chicken Dinner

          The legend tells that years ago every casino in Las Vegas had a
          three-piece chicken dinner with a potato and a veggie for $1.79. A
          standard bet back then was $2, hence when you won a bet you had enough
          for a chicken dinner. !”

          So, the call of glorious victory rang out “Winner Winner Chicken Dinner

          • Baby

            I din’t give credit where I found this.. I think Urban Dictionary..

            Or Bury ha

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Bury = Vegas. I’m going with Bury and the Cap’n. Always fun to find out the origins of slang and phrases.

            • Baby

              I do too Hole.. when I read this I thought it was cool.. I told my hubby and he still hasn’t looked up from his computer..

              I guess some are more easily entertained than others.. ha

        • Sherbet

          Bury? Bury? Hmmmm….the name sounds familiar.

    • Priscilla

      Hmmm. There’s a strong Canadian theme there, Mark. Are you suggesting, perhaps, that we are exporting our scientologists (explains why our orbs are so dead)?

      Edit: orgs!! not orbs

      • Mark

        You mean the $10 bill? I think it’s one he forgot to change back after his last trip to Dirty Degsy’s (I believe there’s a branch in Windsor, Ontario).

        • Priscilla

          and the Canadian mittens – from the winter olympic games in Vancouver.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Wait …. the Hole exists?

      • Mark

        There’s probably a whole new one specially constructed in the basement of FLAG…

    • HillieOnTheBeach

      This mom-self immediately noticed the mittens and that both were there.

      A sight for sore eyes, haven’t seen that in a long while.

      • Mark

        They should be attached by a length of elastic!

        • HillieOnTheBeach

          No. No elastic, silly. Who would want to take a mitten off for it to spring back into your coat sleeve and require a fight to get it back?

          • Mark

            You’re right – it used to drive me mad when I was about four or five (not to mention the odd feeling of the elastic across your shoulders inside the coat).

            • HillieOnTheBeach

              Well, that just aged me as older than you. Thanks a lot.
              ;)

            • Mark

              My mum gave up trying to get me to wear them during the dreadful UK winter of 1963-4 (tunnelling through snow to get to the car, and the last time I ever saw a frozen milk-bottle-lollipop – I got to eat it on my cornflakes as a special treat):

            • HillieOnTheBeach

              Oh yeah? Well my mom put my sled in the firestove during ’72s storm of the century when branches almost scraped my face off because the snow made the trail way higher than it should’ve been.

              I was just a kid, how was I supposed to take into consideration.

            • Baby

              My mum made the best Snow Ice Cream in the World..

              We didn’t have much $ and it was a real treat..

              Fresh falling snow ( Before anyone says it.. NO YELLOW)
              Sugar and Vanilla..

              IT WAS SO GOOD.. ( and she was so smart.. RIP Mama)

        • TXCowgirl

          By a length of yarn is what my Nebraka-born parents used to use.

  • Couch_Incident

    I’m hoping that they’ll make the entertaining argument that the material involves “trade secrets” as to their methods of enforcing their intellectual property rights. Put another way, that the techniques of surveillance and crude harassment by the idiot Squirrel Busters and the thuggish PIs are a trade secret for this “ethical” “religion”. Lulz.

    Texas enacted the Uniform Trade Secrets Act last year and one of the (implicit) remedies under it for litigation discovery is to have items designated for attorneys’ eyes only: “There is a presumption in favor of granting protective orders to preserve the secrecy of trade secrets. Protective orders may include provisions limiting access to confidential information to only the attorneys and their experts, holding in camera hearings, sealing the records of the action, and ordering any person involved in the litigation not to disclose an alleged trade secret without prior court approval.”

    “”Trade secret” means information, including a formula, pattern, compilation, program, device, method, technique, process, financial data, or list of actual or potential customers or suppliers, that: (A) derives independent economic value, actual or potential, from not being generally known to, and not being readily ascertainable by proper means by, other persons who can obtain economic value from its disclosure or use; and (B) is the subject of efforts that are reasonable under the circumstances to maintain its secrecy.”

    Wish I could be in court for this one, if only to see Waldrip’s face…

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      But it’s just “donations”, right? Scientologists aren’t customers, right? Oops

    • 3feetback-of-COS

      I bet Waldrip will have his best poker-face on — anytime CO$ shows up in his court.

  • Sidney18511

    A little info on “attorney’s eyes only”.

    However, the party seeking this designation bears the burden of proving that each document labeled as “attorneys’ eyes only” is sensitive enough to warrant such a restriction.[2] Courts strictly adhere to this requirement and have threatened sanctions against the parties that label documents “attorneys’ eyes only” arbitrarily or without “an adequate factual basis.”[3]

    • Couch_Incident

      Saw another article saying the counsel must be careful not to label everything as “Attorneys’ Eyes Only” because pissed off judges may remove the label from everything, including stuff that might really be trade secrets.

    • Party Hull!

      Good find.

      This appears to be very risky and has huge egg-on-face potential.

      How fun :)

      • Anonymous

        It will be the Streisand Effect yet again for Scientology and it’s crimes.

        Way to go wee Davey!

    • aquaclara

      …simply savoring this information, as we wait patiently for Monday to come! Oh, wait, did I say patiently???
      Hurry up, Monday! We have a date in New Braunfels with Michael and Nick and Tony (via the batphone from NY)!

  • Party Hull!

    Wonder what the running cost of Miscavige’s defence is so far?

    Would anyone even dare a guess?

    • Anonymous

      Who cares? Its just the publics money.

    • HillieOnTheBeach

      COB is selling “Member of Nobility” titles if that’s a clue.

      • Eclipse-girl

        Thats 10 mill for that title.

    • jane456

      Go over to WWP, they are doing an analysis based on how much was spent during the Lisa McPherson case. I think that was roughly 30 million over 9 years. This is double the attorneys so far.

      • Eclipse-girl

        But only 5 months at this point in time.

        Although, the going rate for lawyers is more than it was from 1995 – 2004.

    • DamOTclese2

      The cost to David himself is $0.00. Nothing. The insane crook is using dimwitted customers’ money.

  • Gene Trujillo

    This entire series is great! It sure saves me a lot of work typing many of the heavy duty mind control techniques used by Hubbard and later by Miscavige. If I may make a suggestion, I would LOVE a similar comparison between the “Brainwashing Manual” – which was almost certainly written by Hubbard – and the “ethics” and “PTS/SP” “tech”. I think many who are or were “in” would find it eye opening.

  • woodrose

    Many thanks to Tony and Jefferson for the informative, fascinating look at the upside-down, that-word-doesn’t-mean-what-you-think-it-means world of Scilon ‘ethics.’ It’s no wonder people have to go through a decompression period after leaving such a messed up environment.

    So, the pictures and video of Monique taken by the cult are not to be seen by Monique? The emails and texts by Monique intercepted by the cult are not to be seen by Monique? The voicemail messages from Monique’s phone stolen by the cult are not to be heard by Monique?

    Can’t wait to hear the ludicrous reasoning the cult’s liars-for-hire put forth to justify their ‘attorney’s eyes only’ designation. I will be glued to the Bunker on Monday; I’m looking forward to some good belly laughs.

    If the cult is trying to make Judge Waldrip mad, I suspect they may have achieved their goal. Hope he comes down hard on the cult and their do-anything-for-money lolyers.

  • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

    The numbers for yesterday were up after my bedtime, so I’m posting them now:

    Alexa update for Jan. 29: *refresh for images*

    Tony: US rank #15,213 – down 88 from yesterday.
    Scientology: US rank #40,476 – down 1,176 from yesterday.

    Difference: 25,263 – 1,088 more than yesterday.

    Biggest difference since Dec. 15.

    • Observer

      It’s about time for Scientology to start farming those clicks!

      • Cat Daddy
        • Hubbub

          Poor things. Quotes from the alumni testimonials page, where they speak to their tremendous education:

          “I learned the technology of learning. While I did also learn basics of reading, writing and math, actually learning HOW to learn is what I consider today to be the most valuable. In my adult years I was able to quickly learn new subjects, gain new skills and adapt to new projects or jobs. I have an above average aptitude. I attribute this to the technology of study which I was taught at the ranch.”

          “My personal views of my experience, my education and what I gained during my schooling at Castile Canyon School is that it helped me build the character of who I am today as well as assisted me in my ability to build the business I have today, which is a successful marketing company in Los Angeles.”

          Someone call the copyeditors!

        • RMycroft

          A Potemkin village web site created in 2013, long after the institution was long closed.

          • Artoo45

            The FAQ section explains why the site exists, purely to badmouth Jenna and her book. They are utterly pathetic, scared weasels.

      • ze moo

        The click farmers will start up after the super bowl. Davey needs new imaginary numbers of ‘expansion’. Didn’t Einstein already prove the universe was expanding? I know my waistline is…..

      • HillieOnTheBeach

        Wanna bet those figures include the clam farming efforts.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        And so the innoculation by click continues worldwide…

        http://i.imgur.com/lbZsQ20l.jpg

      • DamOTclese2

        Scientology still has around 14% of their traffic coming from paid Chinese clickers. How stupid, what a waste of Tom Cruise’s money.

      • RMycroft

        Scientology doesn’t use clickers. It’s just that Miscavige is a little spastic when he’s using a mouse.

    • Mark

      Tony’s steady line continues while $cientology’s staggers drunkenly from one self-induced crisis to the next.

      • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

        Tony is slightly influenced by light background radiation, while Cap’n Slappy is experiencing the full blown tremors of an earthquake.

    • DeElizabethan

      Interesting on the upper chart. Looks like Tony’s has a nice, sane steady flow, compared to cofs, erratic, or …….

  • DamOTclese2

    Golly am I embarrassed! When Tom Cruise said that he likes to put ethics in to people, I thought he meant something totally different! Ha!

    • TXCowgirl

      Hmmm. I thought that, according to Mrs. Cruise 1.0., Tommy “enjoyed periods of celibacy to maintain the purity of his instrument ethics.”

  • Ginger Sugerman

    Great Interview with Tony and Jeffrey Hawkins on The Ethics Book, and Church of $cientology. To back up the Amnesty point. I’ve posted my actual Amnesty acceptance letter from Celebrity Centre below.Only problem is this. Despite me being forgiven for anything prior to the date on this, it wasn’t. I asked for a meeting with an Ethics Officer in 2008 and it was used against me. Also notice its also a fishing mission to get you too report others you know who need the Amnesty. This way your turning in your Scientology friends so the Church knows who else has wrong doing too.

    • 3feetback-of-COS

      But, it WAS signed with “MUCH LOVE” !!!

      • Zana

        That’s what buggers me! “Much Love.” Who are these jerks? There is no love there. Fake fake fake. Paper cookies and cardboard ice cream. No Love, is more what the phrase should be.

      • Ginger Sugerman

        They do that on almost everything they write. How could they have (ML) when they don’t even know you personally ! Your just a name and a wallet !

    • Eclipse-girl

      Ms Sugarman, TY for your video with Karen and J Swift. I look forward to learning more.

      • Ginger Sugerman

        Awe shucks ! Your very welcome! More in the future !

      • Ginger Sugerman

        Your very welcome ! Should be another one coming out soon :-) Sorry for the late reply. I’m still learning my way around Tony’s site

        • Eclipse-girl

          No problem. I look forward to another installment.

          • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paIgd_lvAuI&feature=share Ginger Sugerman

            :-) New one just came out….

            • Eclipse-girl

              TY

    • Shirley Eugeste

      So a request for amnesty = an admission of guilt? We may not bother to punish you just now, but nor do we absolve you? Like if the easy-going folks in Salem announced a general amnesty, inviting all interested parties (and their friends) to a meet-and-greet at the municipal pool for special “Fresh Start” team-building exercises? So we can put all this ickiness behind us and move forward as a repressed society? Hmmm.

      • Ginger Sugerman

        Yea, very interesting way of operating in a business disguised as a religeon. Then they also have your bad deeds hanging over your head and the fear of them exposing them to others ! That builds a nice fear factor into you of leaving them.

      • Ginger Sugerman

        Yeah really !! lol

  • DeElizabethan

    When I returned to the organization after 25 years, I was told that there was an amnesty that was in effect for me. Later I did read it but it was outdated. Long story short, they will say or do anything to make it go right for themselves when there is money to be had, period. What a farce!

    • Cat Daddy
      • Jane

        When I went into the CoS place opposite Blackfriars in London it struck me so strongly that it was like a Hansel and Gretel gingerbread house for city financial types that that’s how I’ve described it people ever since.

        • Missionary Kid

          I’d say that the celebrity Centres (I hate that spelling. In the U.S., it smacks of pretentiousness) are the gingerbread houses for actors and creative types.

    • SandiCorrena

      SO Thankful you left them again

      • DeElizabethan

        Me too, thanks. I could do nothing else, after seeing the madness therein with my own eyes. Of course it was always there in the past, but after no connection for so many years I could see better. This time it was a complete ‘end of cycle’, ‘R2-45′, kapoot!

  • jane456

    I think xenu.net is being spammed. I can’t get on and I read some posts over at ESMB that others are having the same trouble. They have also has a couple of annoying trolls posting continually over the last week or so. I am super curious why this is happening now and why clambake? Purely speculation but I think it has to do with the wee captain not wanting to be deposed, somehow. Anyone able to get on clambake?

    • Sunny Sands

      I can’t get on either.

    • Mark

      Works OK from the UK.

      • jane456

        Is the CCHR troll still at it?

        • Mark

          Can’t see – it says “SQL error” if I try to look at the messages.

          • jane456

            That’s what I get, since last nite.

    • Hubbub

      Working ok for me.

    • Once_Born

      In the UK, the site is fine but the message board is very broken.

      The phpBB forum reports: General Error SQL ERROR [ mysqli ]
      Access denied for user ‘webquake’@’goodwood.domeneshop.no’ (using password: YES) [1045]
      An sql error occurred while fetching this page. Please contact an administrator if this problem persists.

    • Science Doc

      Looks good to me – I’m in Hemet or Clearwater or possibly Frostbite Falls.

    • TXCowgirl

      No problemo in Tejas.

    • Eclipse-girl

      I was able to access the front page.

    • ze moo

      They have a message board problem. The general info pages do work, just the message board and sponges ‘scieno news’ page are down.

  • Graham

    Not sure if anyone’s posted a link to this news item: Short people more prone to being mistrustful and paranoid according to this research: http://newsfeed.time.com/2014/01/29/short-people-are-paranoid-and-suspicious-says-science/

    • Michael Leonard Tilse

      Says a study done by tall people…

  • Michael Leonard Tilse

    Thank you again Jefferson and Tony. Digging into the details of the belief structure and how it works in practice is vital to a real understanding.

    Sometimes when I do a long post or essay it feels like I am almost trying to “teach Scientology covertly.” But because Scientology is SO convoluted and filled with redefined words it becomes necessary to get into the details. Sound bite descriptions don’t work.

    I think getting a scientologist to examine the injustice and illogical doctrines works best when they are encouraged to do so using the same Hubbard doctrine. That takes a working grasp of the subject.

    • Casabeca

      Please excuse my off-topic question.
      I can’t stop mulling over the recent post about TRs, sociopathy and hypnosis.
      I keep coming back to one question:
      What is the cure for hypnosis?
      How does an ex get that voice out of his head?
      I appreciate so much that you have honestly shared your experiences.

      • Missionary Kid

        I believe that the “cure” for that hypnosis is to first recognize where the thought comes from, then to confront it. (Damn! I reread that, and started to realize that it sounds like a $cion “cure.” It isn’t, because you yourself are the client, and not some moonbeam struck moneygrubbing {church}.

        Recognition is the difficult part, IMO, because oftentimes things we learn deeply, or at a young age, we assume are truisms. Over time, they become a part of what we perceive as ourselves.

        Note: I’m a never in, but I do have some experience as a subject of hypnotherapy as well as being inculcated with fundamentalist beliefs.

        For $cientology, I’d look at all of the cult’s beliefs and assumptions that are in its doctrines and mentally bookmark them. Jeffferson Hawkins, as well as the other writers who have participated in Tony’s series have been pointing out those assumptions in their different series.

        IMO, the best way to get that recognition, if you find it difficult, is to use a wog therapist, hopefully someone who has an idea of what $cientology is, but it isn’t necessary.

        Determining one’s own belief systems will help an ex to see how those have been compromised and distorted by $cientology. In other words determining what is valuable to one’s core and contrasting that with what they’ve been taught in Clamland will help.

        One key to finding out what you really believe is to ask oneself, “What upsets me, and why does it?” Often, anger and irritation at something are indications of an inner conflict. Often, a psych can really help with that, whether they’re familiar with Co$ or not.

        Hypnotism, IMO, only causes us to do things if we’re predisposed. For instance, a person who is against murder cannot be coerced cannot be turned into a murderer by hypnotism alone. Since Co$ is mostly inhumane, it will be easy once the recognition takes place, to counter the thoughts, IMO.

        Michael probably has much greater insight, but I thought I’d throw my two cents in.

        • Casabeca

          Thanks MK :).
          I agree with what you wrote, even tho I guess I would love a spell and counter-spell type scenario. But the mind is rarely so mathematically precise. I witnessed my BFS being hypnotized at a show in college, 3 of my BFs got called on, so I do believe it works. And I loved your post the other day about tent revivalists using something similar too…they used to terrify me! One of them kept describing atrocities, then saying, “but that is a DROP in the BUCKET compared to HELL!”. I must have been 5 or 6, it was just ridiculous. My heart would beat so fast…baby panic attack!
          I’ve just been pondering all the possible hypnotic situations we find our selves in, it seems a bit scary. So I am seeking the antidote :).
          Thanks again MK. Still an excellent Bunker Bro.

          • Missionary Kid

            The good news is that emotional appeals that depend on a type of herd mental state, like at revival meetings and bible camps, don’t really have much influence on one’s life once once away from them.

            The bad news is that there are always little pieces of residue that are kind of like popcorn shells we pick out of our teeth that stick around to bother us. Fortunately, they’re easily overcome

            The antidote is truth.

  • valshifter

    Lee Baca is now retired, I guess he can be full time scientologist now, they gonna hunt him for his money till they see him broke or dead.

    • Couch_Incident

      Don’t forget his credit lines!

  • 0tessa

    Over at Rinder’s: Miscavige has put some dictionaries on the ‘Scientology Index’. Scilons may only use specific dictionaries authorized (by the Cherch).
    I can see other books being put on the Index in the near future, not only those of Rathbun c.s. of course, but books on real science, psychology etc.
    The Cherch knows what’s good for you!

  • nottrue

    Thank you Mr Hawkins that was a great series. A real eye opener

  • RMycroft

    Yo dawg, they heard you like surreal cults, so they did a surreal remix of the cult so you can listen to surreal sounds about a surreal cult while being serially surreal with a lobster in a bathtub of jello.

    The Scientology Remix Project

    • http://frankdisalleisadummy.wordpress.com/ Get Chutney Love

      From Foothill College, the Rodney Dangerfield of California community colleges. +1

    • Captain Howdy

      Cool. At first i guessed it was probably going to be Enturbulator 009, but it’s actually something new.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxExUqdGa0Y

      • Baby

        Pure Poetry.. This old white lady dug it

        • Captain Howdy

          There’s more on youtube, just search Enturbulator 009.

          They were doing this great stuff even before Chanology.

          • MaxSpaceman

            the words are fanfuckingtastic

          • Baby

            Thanks Howdy… off to Hearsay

      • MaxSpaceman

        some fantastic anti-$cientology Inc. lyrics in there !!

      • Shirley Eugeste

        Then there’s this bit of wholesomeness and purity:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkRIbUT6u7Q

    • RMycroft
    • Shirley Eugeste

      Hey! KFJC! The radio station that guided me out of the bubble gum/pop of jr. high into the new wave/punk of high school. Planet Claire has pink air.

      • Robert Eckert

        No-one ever dies there. No-one has a head.

        • Shirley Eugeste

          Back when “Rock Lobster” was everywhere, KFJC was the only station I ever heard play “Planet Claire.”

    • Artoo45

      I’m going to dig into that when I have my next three hour block of free time . . . brevity, people. What happened to brevity?

  • Shirley Eugeste

    (Deep breath…) I guess when you adhere to a manufactured “religion” (or vice-versa) which an officious, “those who can’t do, pretend,” pulp/pablum (pulplum?) scifi writer pulled out of thin air (or, arguably, elsewhere), it’s not surprising that the “religion” manifests a hyper-attention to the minutiae of a complex, fictional political/social order, such as one commonly finds in certain scifi/fantasy sub-genres. As nutty as “Ron’s Rules of Disorder” may seem from the outside (and, increasingly, from the inside), these made-up rules, in all their wild ‘n’ woolly, rough ‘n’ tumble complexity, constitute the actual infrastructure upon which Scientologists have, to varying degrees, built their lives, such as they are.

    The trumpets are getting louder and more numerous and the walls of Scientology must, surely, come tumbling down sooner rather than later, but what then? Does some judge somewhere just get to adjure the die-hards to knock it off, play nice, no more of this Hubbard nonsense or else? Cursed be the man… that riseth up and rebuildeth this cult Jericho, I mean Scientology: he shall lay the foundation thereof in his firstborn, and in his youngest son shall he set up the gates of it? (shameless adaptation of Joshua 6:26 KJV, which I happened to actually read about 20 years ago when Lyle Lovett made “Joshua Judges Ruth.”) That seems both unAmerican and doomed to fail. The Emancipation Proclamation was all well and good and about-damn-time, but there were one or two minor snags in the rollout. I think it can legitimately be argued that some of these snags are still with us today. Given how secretive Scientology is, or tries to be, now, imagine what it would be like if it were marginalized even further and pushed deeper under ground. (That which we call a turd, by any other name would smell as rank…)

    As a never-in who’s never known the cult or any of its members/victims up close and personal-like, to me it’s mainly an excuse to indulge my inner Bulwer-Lytton (www.bulwer-lytton.com). I’m all for exposing the seedy, fraudulent, abusive underbelly of Scientology… but what, actually, would a successful outcome look like?

    By the way, do people know about this? http://www.seventhsanctum.com/

    • Jane

      Various experiences have led me to believe that scientology or another organisation that acts just like it is alive and well in the UK and is propagating itself via bidding to offer training. Possible recipients are the police (especially the Met Police due to their demonstrable affiliation with the CoS, together with the increasingly bizarre behaviour of assorted officers) as well as those employed in the London financial services (I say this because of what I have observed amongst and heard from people I know who work in them). The New Year’s tape shown on this blog reinforced my belief with its descriptions of training being taken up by companies and state institutions in Malaysia. Even if there is exaggerration there is likely to be a grain of truth there. Also scientologists seem to crop up quite often in life coaching and corporate training. Then there is Common Purpose which is just as secretive and is focused on infiltrating the whole community – commercial, state institutions, charities, etc..

      One person rang my husband up and said that he had to get me to promise that I did not THINK that her husband was a scientologist. As it happens I HAD thought someone was using CoS methods to manipulate him but I certainly did not think he was actually a scientologist. but when his wife made such a big deal about it I had second thoughts. When I said I honestly had no idea of his preferences or extracurricular activities she threatened me….long story!

      So in conclusion, my great hope – since Marty Rathbun’s blog appeared in early 2009 and it seemed to kickstart all sorts of other stuff coming out into the open – is that increasing transparency will make the general public aware of the tactics these people use. The tactics only work because the average person is reasonable (scientology methods are always focused on winning so the compromiser finds him/herself giving in entirely) and everyone assumes that people have a rational motive for their behaviour (scientology encourages irrational behaviour like bullbaiting for the sake of dominating rather than for the sake solving interpersonal issues).

      A big problem for me and my family has been that people always want to ascribe rational motives to odd behaviour. So if someone is literally acting like a 2 year old then they say to me ‘You must have REALLY upset them’. In a sense they are right – the bullbaiter is upset because they are not getting their own way – but maybe it is right that they SHOULDN’T get their own way if it is to dominate and control someone who is trying to mind their own business.

      • http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/muslinger/ Jens TINGLEFF

        I thought that the criminal organisation kmown as the “church” of $cientology had been linked to the City of London Police (the opening of QV ideal mOrgue springs to mind). What do you have on the Met?

        • Jane

          Read up on Kevin Hurley, the new Police Commissioner for Surrey. theguardian.com/politics/2013/feb/14/hugh-muir-diary-hurley-epsom
          surrey-pcc.gov.uk/about-your-pcc/ eg “I have never known a burglar to break into someone’s home when he is locked up” and in general rather anti restorative justice
          wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Hurley = eg zero tolerance policing

          Hurley’s attitude to criminals is exactly that described in a CoS video I saw years ago about criminals and prisons in which it said that a criminal loses all claim to his human rights because of his criminal actions.

          Also look at Met Police tactics which at times resemble bull baiting. eg kettling. And other odd behaviour like when the newspaper seller was clubbed and died. It appears police officers are acting as if the general public are all potential criminals. Also Hurley was part of the terrorism squad. We’ve seen increasing use of ‘terrorism’ as an excuse for intrusive surveillance and detainment. The CoS is obsessed by terrorists – remember that woman confessing to the River County panel that she persecuted anonOrange (I think it was him?) because she was told he was a terrorist.

          On another tack, I had an interesting series of complaints against the police which I took all the way through the appeals process in which it became very difficult to avoid the conclusion that the police were lying extensively to protect individuals who were behaving in classic CoS fashion, as well as the CoS itself. One of the complaints centred around a raid by 4 police on my 80 yr old mother’s extremely isolated farmhouse at 11pm. No warrant. And the policeman who behaved most strangely in the event could not be identified by the police. The photo of the person we were told it was looked nothing like my mother’s description.

  • MaxSpaceman

    What are the plans for KCET television studio and broadcasting center, Sunset Blvd., Los Angeles Calif. Davey Little Caesar Miscavige bought this what, about a year ago or so. Anybody know any thing at all ?

    • chukicita

      Too bad KKSW call letters are taken (the contemporary hits of Lawrence, KS!)
      I’m sure we can help think of others…

      • Shirley Eugeste

        K-Ron and You

        Putting the KRAY in your cray-cray, now in HD!

        • Modesto

          I think the Krays would be terrified of Miss Savage … well, maybe not …

    • 3feetback-of-COS

      Sell it to cover the Jefferson Bros’ legal fees!

    • Missionary Kid
      • Artoo45

        SP! SP!

        • Missionary Kid

          I proudly wear the mantle of being a wog SP. Thank you. :-))))

      • aquaclara

        Yay! You have a real job here, MK! Wow.

        • Missionary Kid

          Lately, I’ve been working evenings, but I get a chance to get online early in the morning or late at night. Take a look at the key to the different lists. There’s all sorts of things that people have said about Co$ and topics around it. I tried to capture items that will be entertaining to people reading them. The fact that DM has so many nicknames is an indication of the disgust people have for him. The index is at http://tonyortega.org/2013/10/12/tomkat-project-in-los-angeles-heres-your-chance-to-help-the-show-get-to-tinseltown/#comment-1147415730

          • aquaclara

            It is remarkable how much yon have captured on your lists-it is simply awesome. You have not missed a beat….or a nickname!

            • Missionary Kid

              Thank you, but I have missed a lot. I sometimes tell someone that I’ve used something of theirs, only to have them point out that someone else has been using the term or the phrase for months. I’ve also seen a phrase so many times that I assumed that I already had it on a list – and it isn’t.

              I have edited a lot of the Things said about… statements for clarity for people unfamiliar

              with Co$, or if the statement inspires something in me. In that case, I often totally rewrite it, but I try to let the person who inspired me know what I did.

              On the nicknames, I’ve tried not to use common terms that, while they may fit, aren’t extraordinary. Asshole would be one nickname for DM and LRH that fits, but I didn’t use.

              Some people get inspired to come up with new ones for DM and LRH. Months ago, because I didn’t have nicknames for every letter of the alphabet, someone filled them in. Others, like Michael Leonard Tilse, try to come up with a new one for DM nearly every time they post something about him.

              The real credit goes to the Bunkaroos. Their creativeness and intelligence is simply awe-inspiring.

            • aquaclara

              Nicely stated…and I am still in awe of your work!

            • Missionary Kid

              What I’m looking forward to is the day when we don’t have to use avatars out of fear of Co$ retaliation.

              Then, people can come forward and say, “I said that,” and we can applaud them directly.

      • Keeping Scientology Waning

        I’ll have light sauce, pepperoni, and extra cheese.

        • Missionary Kid

          I’m holding the anchovies.

          • Shirley Eugeste

            Put DOWN the anchovies and step away from the pizza.

            • Missionary Kid

              Snickersnort.

  • Captain Howdy

    Thank you Jeff Hawkins for all your time and insight.

    Thank you Tony Ortega for all your energy and patience.

  • aquaclara
    • ObsessedReader

      All flagged, thanks for your hard work! Nothing came up for Buffalo so they must be gone already. I’ll tackle the WWP list now. Yes I am angry, they are tenacious liars!!

      • aquaclara

        Yay, Buffalo down! Thanks to the flaggers! Here is proof that we can erase their lies.

        • DeElizabethan

          Yay, Flaggers!

    • Eclipse-girl

      TY, AC
      the 2nd Boston list is long.
      I didn’t get anything on the Buffalo list

      • Sibs

        I just started on that Boston list. Not ONE of those said they were Scientology! That is, not until they said where they were located. Because it’s okay to lie as long as you get their money and personal information.

        Sorry, I’m still mentally processing some articles from this past week.

        • Eclipse-girl

          you understand their technique

        • http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/muslinger/ Jens TINGLEFF

          I flag every ad that doesn’t have $cientology in the title (OK, I’ll let them chose their own spelling, and I let the dishwasher for sale go unflagged also).
          Quite a few do not mention the criminal organisation, ever, just leave a name and a phone number.
          Sneaky cult is sneaky…

    • Sherbet

      Done.

    • woodrose

      TY. done.

    • Sibs

      A few ads that just say “Intellectual Gathering”.

      “Want to share your intellectual thoughts? Are your philosophical ideas above others?

      Do you want to find out how to measure worth of a philosophical ideology?

      If you said yes then likely you should attend this gathering at 448 Beacon St, Boston, MA”

      ………… I’m sorry, this screams sketch to me.

      • Shirley Eugeste

        Shudder.

        “If you said yes then likely you are a complete jackass who has no friends and never ever gets laid.”

        Why would a person like this want to meet up with other people like this? A room full of people who think their “philosophical ideas” are above others? Sounds like there’d be a good chance a rugby match would break out.

        • texasexpat

          I’ve got someone in mind who would probably love to go to this. HIs “intellectual thoughts” are so much more “intellectual” and “philosophical” than the rest of us dumb rednecks he had the misfortune of marrying into.

          • Shirley Eugeste

            I’m half-redneck myself, by way of Thomasville, Georgia. Sorry about your family’s plight… but really it’s your menfolk’s fault for letting your womenfolk choose their own husbands. No good can ever come of that.

            That Craig’s List ad, though… actually, it looks like it’s worded to attract Hubbards. As I was downstairs stirring the soup (not a euphemism for anything), LWrong’s less-than-stellar military review popped into my head:

            “By assuming unauthorized authority and attempting to perform duties for which he has no qualifications, he became the source of much trouble… This officer is not satisfactory for independent duty assignment. He is garrulous and tries to give impressions of his importance. He also seems to think he has unusual ability in most lines…”

            “This officer [is] lacking in the essential qualities of judgment, leadership and cooperation. He acts without forethought as to probable results… Not considered qualified for command or promotion at this time.”

            And yet: “On October 22, 1931, Hubbard received an honorable discharge along with the annotation ‘not to be re-enlisted.’” Kind of has a here’s-your-hat-what’s-your-hurry ring to it.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_career_of_L._Ron_Hubbard

          • Missionary Kid

            I wrote this while in college over 50 years ago. It might or might not be appropriate.

            Education, my dear friend,
            will make you so content,
            But, education, my dear friend,
            doesn’t pay the rent.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    For those who still have questions about Miscavige’s actions past present and future on this legal case, this particular thread on Jeff Hawkin’s Ethics series should be enlightening. It also will tell you much about Shelly, who by all reports fantasized her own Manuela role, much like Mary Sue. It will also just happen to explain Captain Blackheart’s last New Year’s eve video claims that have been melted down to cinders by curious factcheckers. It should answer the question if he made up these stats or is being spoon fed the delusion. It could be a combo plate of pink legs and chicken wings, but either way, Simon Bolivar is on the menu:

    http://tonyortega.org/2013/11/21/the-ethics-of-political-power-scientologys-worship-of-ruthlessness/

    • Shirley Eugeste

      “Hey, you got blatant misogyny and racism in my lunatic delusions!” “No, YOU got lunatic delusions in MY blatant misogyny and racism!”

  • Andrew Robertson

    Another Study Tech success story showing word clearing in action:

    • Anonymous

      Now that’s funny!

    • Espiando

      I was going to respond to Das Rinderblog’s recycled dictionary story today by saying, “Word-clearing is for the weak and stupid.” I wasn’t sure, though, if their magical dictionaries contained the words “weak” or “stupid”, so I decided against it.

      • Shirley Eugeste

        weak, stupid; see “glib”

    • Missionary Kid

      Looking at the triangle, first, I thought, what it’s saying, is sove for x. Then it hit me that it was an idiot answer, if it’s a right triangle. Then, I finally realized that the triangle is out of proportion. The 3 should be on the short leg from the right angle.

      That is, indeed, a study tech success story. Absolutely stupid.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Gagging. From the other room heard the scientology ad again on CNN, Tampa Bay area. I can guess these will continue until the not quite Super Bowl spray. If I had bottomless money pit access I would make a follow up ad right behind each one of theirs:

    “in scientology, there ARE higher States of Existence. And here they are…” and then dispay a slide show of all the Donation menus, causes, status levels and the prices attached, like Super Power, IAS, Flag Service price lists, and end off with the latest State of Existence, “Nobility”

    http://i.imgur.com/kTzcLa6l.jpg

    • Shirley Eugeste

      Other than a garish toddlers/tiaras trophy (the taller the trophy, the bigger your penis — actual or metaphorical — and thus the greater your inherent worth as a human being) or a gigantic, framed diploma/certificate/receipt (“My Scientology Certificate of Valiant and Meritorious Gullibility is actually bigger than your fancy-pants high school diploma, your BA, MA, and PhD, birth certificate, and marriage certificate COMBINED, AND I paid more to get it AND it came in this here classy frame, see, so you can take all your puny little diplomas and just fuck right off.”)… what if anything do you actually get at the various levels? Are they used the way Catholic indulgences were misused (at least pre-Luther, not that I really have the first clue about any of that whole business)? Is it like the special prix-fixe menu options in Chinese restaurants? Does it at least get you out of doing shit?

      • Sarah James

        David Miscavige has repeated so many wrongs in history and I doubt he has every opened a histoty book, but surely the whales have?

      • grundoon

        If you donate a LOT, you get to be regged in a special elite regging room (Cornerstone Lounge in the SP Building).

        • Shirley Eugeste

          Hardly seems worth it.

    • Sunny Sands

      The building on the letterhead resembles the U.S. Capitol building in Washington, DC.

      First Flag and now this. Another garish building in downtown Clearwater.

      $10 million: Member of Nobility LOL

      • Shirley Eugeste

        $10 million: Member of No More Money

        • MaxSpaceman

          A whale’s whale has this to spare. A $cilon in Silicon Valley, when Dot Com businesses and stocks flourish, can have $10 million in her checking account.

      • Modesto

        Member of Nobility? LOL indeed – ‘Lord Whale of Gold Base’ – do they get furry robes and stuff? – I’d like a picture

    • DeElizabethan

      Tho other night there was a Scio ad on Fox News during Greta Van Sustren show in the Tampa area. I never whatch her anymore, but it was on and caught my attention. I guess they think the whales watch her show so to see it.

  • media_lush
  • Sejanus

    Have there ever been guiltier clients?
    They can’t even turn over evidence decently.
    I hope DM fries.

    • Shirley Eugeste

      But would the faithful CO$ spin doctors turn that into a form of martyrdom? Could it end up increasing that little weasel’s (no offense) influence and power?

      • MaxSpaceman

        Surely, Shirley – you geste.

        • Shirley Eugeste

          I assure you I’m totally cereal.

      • Sejanus

        It is not just about the orders for evidence….some of us want fries with that.

  • Jimmy Threetimes

    Which edition of the Intro. to Scientology Ethics is Jefferson Hawkins reading from here?

    • Eclipse-girl

      I thought he said an early edition. Go back to the first post in this series.

      • Jimmy Threetimes

        Yeah, the first article says the one with a 1968 copyright. I’ve looked at that and one that says August 1978, but this chapter isn’t included.

  • MaxSpaceman

    JEFFERSON: It was interesting to revisit this book after being out of that environment for nearly nine years. There is so much that you accept as a Scientologist that is really, in retrospect, crazy, but you only see it after you are able to get a bit of distance from it. I hope the series has helped Ex-Scientologists to better understand what they went through, and has helped the never-ins to see some of the control mechanisms we were subjected to.

    Thank you, Jefferson. Your recovery — and your regaining your ‘humanity’ now in lieu of your eternity
    ‘whenever’ — has been an inspirational thing to see. Not only for those $cientologists still-in, those on the bubble of leaving, those indie-scientologists, those ex’es in recovery themselves; but also, to the never-ins who struggle to understand how it can happen to someone, getting sucked into the whirlwind of the Cult.

    Your story is important to everyone trying to understand; you being in for 3 decades (the vast majority of your entire adult life); you the inventor of that fantastic campaign for die-anetics, Ron’s seminal book, rocketing it onto the NY Times best seller list some 30 years after its 1st appearance; your excellence being so much sh1t in the hands of SeaOrg Captain DM; your leaving; your return-to-your true self. To learn to live again.

    I salute you, Jefferson Hawkins. Sir.

  • Observer

    Sweet dreams, Captain Miscavige!

    • Shirley Eugeste

      Cue cheesy 70′s wonka-wonka porn soundtrack? (no slight to Roald Dahl intended.)

    • Modesto

      For a moment, I thought Miss Savage had grown a porn star moustache – must put glasses on …

  • Hingle McCringleberry

    Yo! White House petition to have Co$ tax exempt status revoked! Need to only 150 sigs to get it on the public section of the site- then 100K total to have Big O drop the hammer on these jokers. Sign up! Please and thank you:

    http://wh.gov/lNLRt

    • Hingle McCringleberry

      Only shows your initials, so no worry about the PIs and corrupt abogados. Feel free to repost this anywhere that you’d like. It would be sweet to get an official response about this, regardless of your politics.

    • Captain Howdy

      We already did that a few years ago and it amounted to bupkis. Nice idea though.

      • AintMizBahavin

        You keep saying we tried that a few years ago.. BUT TIMES HAVE CHANGED. and there are many many more ex cos members now then it was back then… its actually really tiring to see you and espiando or however its spelled do all you can to downplay and discourage the signing of this petition. just because YOU didnt succeed then doesnt mean we won’t succeed now. so ok you dont want to sign it then don’t but stop trying to discourage others from doing it… the discouragement you show is just the same as the discouragement cos has shown to those who no longer want to be a part of their torture movement…..

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      It is a nice idea. Unfortunately, their policy is that the White House will respond to any petition with 100K signatures. It doesn’t guarantee that they will act on it.

      • EnthralledObserver

        Any effort is worth trying though, right? And times are changing, new evidence seeing the light. AMERICANS… get signing! I would if I could…

        • Jimmy Threetimes

          I suppose you’re right, no effort is wasted and it wouldn’t hurt to initial the petition. But as I’ve said before, and people here don’t like to hear it, to most Americans, the IRS is a bigger threat than Scientology.

          • EnthralledObserver

            The enemy of my enemy is my friend… :)

      • Hingle McCringleberry

        Yeah, 100K is the policy, but I’ve signed a few Deport Bieber ones that got there. The 150 sig thing is just to get it on the main lists where it’ll be seen. Not really expecting an awesome shitstorm effect, but if people don’t ever bring it up, it doesn’t get brought up. Squeaky wheel thing. I know its been done before, but that’s why you get three strikes or four downs. We keep it in the light and eventually it gets burned. Hopefully. Then we can switch to the next ridiculous cult. . .

        • Captain Howdy

          We already did the White House 100K petition thing a couple of years ago.

          In case you hadn’t noticed Obama and the country have a lot bigger problems. Our political system is BROKE.

          • OrangySky

            Howdy is right. The Feds don’t care…YET.

            • Captain Howdy

              Not only am I right about that I will be also right about the Seahawks winning the Stupor Bowl and American Hustle winning best picture. Do yourself a favor and give me all your money NOW. Goodnight.

            • Missionary Kid

              Are you sure you’re not a sock puppet, the way you’re asking for money? ;-)

            • Captain Howdy

              No, I’m a suck prophet. Git it right kid.

            • Artoo45

              My new band name: The Sock Prophets. I shall cut you in on the piles of money.

            • Missionary Kid

              For this Super Bowl, I don’t really care who wins. I just want a good game that’s not over by the fourth quarter. My prediction is that Denver will get off to a slow start, but that it will eventually win. I’ve certainly been wrong before. Whoever wins, I think that the margin will only be by 4 points.

              I tend to root against the ‘hawks because of the NCAA violations that took place while Pete Carroll was at USC, and I’m a Bruin fan, and the USC forfeitures helped UCLA. The Reggie Bush affair was not the only thing he did wrong. When things went bad and his actions were discovered, he bailed.

              That doesn’t mean that he won’t win the SB. There’s no denying he’s a good coach.

            • Sibs

              I know I’m not supposed to root against Pete Carroll, but it’s very difficult because for me, he’s the coach that ran off and abandoned our school to sanctions. Aside from that, I’ve gotta admit I don’t really care either way who wins.

            • Missionary Kid

              Read the Wikipedia entry on him, with the comments from sportswriters about the scandal that are included.

              Basically, what they say is that he should have known about Reggie Bush, but also that his public facade about hiring an illegal (under NCAA rules there is a limit) coach was different than what he told the NCAA.

              USC has one less Heisman and national championship because of Bush and him.

            • Sibs

              Pfsh, we still count our Heisman and NC! And our PAC-12 South title from three years ago! :D

            • Missionary Kid

              I believe the Heisman went back, didn’t it?

            • OrangySky

              I know nothing about the Super Bowl except it’s damn freezing in NYC and why the hell would those boys want to play outside in this weather? I think I agree with you about American Hustle, but don’t count Gravity out yet.

    • Sidney18511

      I signed it. But I can’t imagine Obama doing anything because the RWNJs will use this as “Obama is going after your religion next”.

  • WestSounder

    In am not familiar with Texas Civil Rules, but since when can lawfully acquired Discovery be kept from the litigant, e.g. by designating “attorneys eyes only” without getting a protective order first? Anybody out there know?

  • valshifter

    Can Monique demand that those recording be rendered to her since they are about her and her property? why would they have to be a secret? the defendants are only afraid those recording reaching public eyes, they are afraid of being ridiculed, they already admitted they have them, I believe Monique is entitle to them. this is just another tactic to drag the proceedings for as long as they can just to cause more expenses to the plaintiff.

  • MaxSpaceman

    At the end of the year 2013, it looks as if family Rathbun came to an important realization and course of action.

    Marty Rathbun: “He [David Miscavige] quite apparently has decided to turn a simple, civilized request to be left alone into ground zero for Scientology’s Armageddon.

    “It would appear that there has been continuing regressive ethics change (a dwindling toward extreme depravity of moral level) on the part of Miscavige and his minions. He continues to spend millions of tax free money to exact vengeance and attain impunity for his criminal ways without the slightest sign of remorse. As a result, a great deal of my time of late has been forced toward reconstructing events explaining Scientology Inc.’s institutionalized abuse of civil rights and abuse of the judicial system. Doing so led to my recognition that the racketeering ways leading to Scientology Inc.’s depraved condition requires full airing.

    “I have pulled from the pending (indefinitely) basket my in-progress manuscript of the follow-up book to Memoirs. Its working title is “Scientology Armageddon.” It provides an insider history of Scientology’s second, and apparent, last generation. It is now back on the production line scheduled for 2014 completion and publication.

    “Among other topics it will chronicle in detail:

    – How David Miscavige’s psycho-sexual obsession with celebrity and the world’s biggest star dictated the destiny of Scientology’s second generation. Including the full stories of Tom Cruise, John Travolta, Kirstie Alley, Greta Van Susteren, et al. That is made possible and necessary by Miscavige changing the rules to ‘no rules’.

    – The complete story of Scientology Inc’s efforts to capture the minds of Michael Jackson, Steven Spielberg, Bono and David Beckham – including meddling so as to engineer match ups and splits between marriage partners.

    – How the world’s most powerful talent/entertainment agency (Creative Artists Agency) was covertly converted into a Scientology censorship vehicle. How it has intimidated and bribed major television networks at the direction of David Miscavige.

    – How David Miscavige attempted to sell out Scientology to Big Pharma (Pharmaceutical companies) while continuing to bilk adherents of hundreds of millions by positioning himself as the nemesis of Big Pharma.

    – How Miscavige defrauded the United States government, and all American taxpayers, to obtain tax exempt status for Scientology and why subsequent history requires that exemption be rescinded.

    – How Miscavige caused and then attempted to cover up the death of Lisa McPherson at a cost of tens of millions of dollars.

    – The moral and cognitive breakdown that resulted in Miscavige’s near replay of Waco and/or Jonestown at Scientology headquarters. How that re-play was prevented by whistleblowers. And why that has resulted in Miscavige choosing the situs [specifically: the place where something (as a right) is held to be located in law] of the writing of this very book as ground zero for Scientology’s Armageddon.”

    $cientology Inc.’s response to Monique’s suit has galvanized M Rathbun into action. In a big way. http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/12/26/scientology-armageddon/

    • YSYSYSYSYS

      What a tantalising teaser. Very much looking forward to the release of this book.

    • OrangySky

      This is one book of Marty’s that I will definitely buy hot off the presses.

    • Zana

      Right on, Marty! Yes! Courage and personal power. Bringing down the giant.

    • xoxoxoxoxoxox

      Marty: “Miscavige choosing the situs [specifically: the place where something (as a right) is held to be located in law] of the writing of this very book as ground zero for Scientology’s Armageddon”.

      I wish someone would teach Marty English. But I’m so definitely gonna read this even if it means giving Marty my $$$.

    • Missionary Kid

      I hope that him writing this doesn’t screw up Monique’s case against Co$ and DM.

  • Guest

    Thank you to Tony Ortega and Mr. Jeff Hawkins for this most helpful and educational description, explanation, and brilliant analytical deconstruction of scientology’s essential core, i.e., it’s “blackheart.” The diseased heart of scientology is the result of the “ethics” and “system of justice” created by the equally “diseased” and drug addled brain of a greedy, narcissistic madman whose messiah complex tragically ensnared and destroyed the lives of p

  • Sarah James

    Ethics and LRH in the same sentence. The ideal oxy- moron.

  • valshifter

    welcome to the Sea Org

  • Sibs

    Yaaaaay I’m still awake! May as well stay up and wait for the next article…

  • Ginger Sugerman

    Let the flogging begin ! Ethics ! This is a sample of one type of report that the Church of $$$$ has its members write. They push you to write reports on other members.This sample is in response to a report my mother was ordered to write on me ( while working for her company ) by a man named Frank Zurn. He is an executive at ABLE International. Its a Secular organization and ARM of the Church. After 13 1/2 hours of straight working I accidently addressed a package incorrectly !! And my mom was ordered to write a report on me. How crazy is that ? The front groups of the Church are run no differently then if you worked right inside the Church of $$$$.