You can either make a one-time donation to the site via Paypal...

...or you can subscribe and get billed monthly:

To join our e-mail list & get daily updates on new stories, e-mail us at
RSS Feed
Click here to add The Underground Bunker to your RSS Reader

The best parts of Steven Mango’s ‘documentary’ on Scientology’s Celebrity Centre

MangoOn Monday morning, we posted Steven Mango’s two and a half hour video about his experience as a member of Scientology. Now that we’ve had some time to absorb the entire thing, we thought we’d highlight some of the really good stuff in it.

In our title, we put the word ‘documentary’ in quote marks because what Steven Mango has put together is probably better described as a testimonial. It’s mostly him talking to a camera about his experiences, and at two and a half hours, it’s ludicrously long.

The film particularly drags when Mango is talking about things he has no personal knowledge of — life in the Sea Org, for example, or Leah Remini’s reasons for leaving Scientology. When he’s not on camera, the film often relies on borrowed material from others that Mango didn’t ask permission to use. We asked him about that, and he explained that he’s really just an amateur and was unfamiliar with copyright law and didn’t intend to harm anyone. We believe him, but that borrowed material will limit the video’s reach — we’d like to see the best 20 to 30 minutes of Steven’s own personal story pulled from it and edited professionally for a product that might have some real potential to reach a large audience.

And we say that because some of what Mango has here is really remarkable. We already knew that Scientology was a homophobic organization that is splitting apart and facing oblivion because of its extreme fundraising. But Mango is better than most former members at describing vividly what it’s like to be harassed day and night for money, and his tales of being recruited for the Sea Org are visceral. We can understand why he says it’s left him with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder.

So what would we like to see repackaged in a shorter film? Here are the things we thought were most remarkable from Inside the Scientology Celebrity Centre.

1. How he fell into Scientology

Mango was an aspiring actor, and in August 2009, he was reading Backstage magazine when he spotted an ad for a $20 seminar at the Celebrity Centre about breaking into the entertainment industry. It promised to reveal how to get an agent, a manager, and how to get in front of casting agencies.

“Those are all things every actor is looking for when they came to LA, so it was really enticing,” he says.

The admission price included a copy of The Problems of Work by L. Ron Hubbard. Mango says he didn’t know much about Hubbard or Scientology, but he had noticed their numerous facilities in Hollywood. And the celebrities in the church made him curious.

He signed up for the course and was shown a film that struck him as creepy and strange — but he was convinced to purchase additional courses.

Mango says many people in LA are in the same position he was, looking for “background work” as extras, going to Central Casting and standing in long lines for work.

“Scientology knows most actors coming off the Greyhound Bus or just flying into town are going to land at Central Casting,” he says.

So the church sends “Div 6” people — who specialize in bringing new people into Scientology — over to the lines at Central Casting to talk people into taking the same kind of “breaking into the industry” seminars that roped in Steven.

“They’ll tell these wannabe actors, ‘You don’t want to be an extra. I mean, it’s fine if you want to make a couple bucks and try it out once or twice, but I know the real reason why you’re here is to try to be an actor, and we can show you how to do that,'” he explains.

“The new actor is a real prime candidate for Scientology.”

The church has several different ways to catch the attention of young actors. Big ads in Backstage, and other materials at the Samuel French Bookshops, for example. Backstage also throws a series of conventions for actors, ActorFest, which takes place in late fall in Los Angeles.

“Scientology has almost the entire back wall of the place,” he says.

2. The Purification Rundown

Steven found himself in another seminar, this time with a celebrity giving the pitch for “detoxing.” The program costs $2,000. Steven thought of it as an investment into his future.

“When you’re on the purification program, you’re sitting in the sauna with maybe ten or twenty other people. Now, at the Celebrity Centre, you may be in the sauna with editors, writers, directors, producers, all sorts of types of industry people. So it’s almost like, you know, you can network in the sauna.”

On his second time in the sauna, he was in there with an actor from True Blood. It helped convince him that the program must be useful.

3. Regging

The pushy nature of Scientology registrars — or “regges” — is already legendary. At one point, Mango says he overheard a reg saying she would say and do whatever it took to get a person’s credit card number, no matter what. At the time, he rationalized it. But increasingly, he became aware that the behavior of the regges was getting unbearable.

“At the end of a course period, when you’re about to leave…you have to go out one door. Now the regges line up all along that door. So you’re going to have your IAS reg, you’re going to have the ones trying to get money for courses, the bookstore officer, anyone whose job it is to collect money from you, they’re lined up by those doors. So when you leave you know one of them is about to grab you and pull you into one of their offices and reg you for money. So some Scientologists start trying to find back doors that they can leave through so they don’t have to face the regges. But the regges know that so they start waiting for you in different areas. So, they kind of spread themselves out. Now, to think you’re in a church, and you have to think about an escape route so you don’t have to pay them any money?”

Regging sessions could last several hours as Steven would have to find a way to convince a reg to let him go without giving a large donation. At one point, he even had a reg stop him at his car in the parking lot, and he spent another half hour convincing the reg to let him go home.

He had been regged for hours, got home late, and then he got a call at 2 in the morning, and a reg was still bugging him about spending hundreds of dollars on a set of books that he really didn’t need. He said he would think about it the next day, but the reg said no, he had to get the money tonight. Why, what’s the big rush, Steven asked.

“Look, I can’t even go to sleep until I get my quota met,” the Sea Org worker told him.

Another time, he was again being pushed to buy more courses. But Mango knew he didn’t have any credit — the cards he had were maxed out. The reg had already tried calling his banks to get his credit limits raised, with no luck.

The reg was hitting him for $50,000 to go Clear. The reg knew that Steven didn’t have the money, but she pushed him anyway. “Steve, this is your year. You’re going to go Clear this year.”

He figured he was going to experience another five to six hour regging session. But then, something interesting happened.

“All these regges come over, and they’re all surrounding the desk. So there were all these regges over there with iPads. She’s, ‘We’re going to all start applying for credit cards for you.’ So basically, all the regges had iPads, they got my Social Security number, they got, you know, all my financial information. And all of them were running credit apps at the same time, with the theory being that hopefully it doesn’t look like I’m hitting for a lot of credit at once, because if you put all the credit apps through at once, maybe I’ll be able to get approved for ten credit cards all at the same time instead of doing one at a time. So they all started applying for credit cards on my behalf.”

Steven told them that he didn’t want it to affect his credit. But none of them got approved anyway.

He was told it was fine. It was only the first step.

“Now we’re going to call each of these banks and we’re going to get you your credit line.” they told him. How, he asked.

“She said, ‘Look, we have people higher up in American Express and other financial institutions who are Scientologists and they can underwrite and approve your credit card for the amount of credit that we need for you to be able to go Clear’,” he says.

“I’m locked up in the Celebrity Centre day after day after day, and it’s just not dawning on me that this is a moneymaking scheme.”

4. Staff and Sea Org Recruiting

During a lunch break, Mango was approached by recruiters who want to ask him survey questions. They were trying to convince him to become an employee of the Celebrity Center, which meant working 40 hours a week on a contract for 2.5 or 5 years. He wasn’t interested, he was still committed to becoming an actor. And he was surprised at what they said next…

“Actors are scum. You’re not going to be any Tom Cruise or some shit. No, none of you actors are. You’re just wasting your time unnecessarily in these acting classes and auditioning. You’re not really going to be able to help anyone as an actor. Actors are just down-tone people…”

At another event, two Sea Org recruiters pulled him aside to talk about the elite organization, which requires a billion-year contract and intense, grueling work at more than 100 hours a week. Steven said he explained to them that he had no interest in joining the Sea Org. Another two recruiters approached the table.

“They tell these guys not to waste their time on me. ‘Steve’s a pussy. He needs to grow a pair of balls and handle and confront what the condition of this planet is and he can’t do that. He’s just a sissy. He’s not going to be able to be in the Sea Organization. Don’t waste your time trying to recruit…this piece of shit’.”

Mango said he was shocked to see them talk like that.

“After hearing that, I was on my way out of Scientology.”

Another time, a staff recruiter put a contract and a pen in his hand, telling him that he was going to be part of “the biggest push in 2,500 years.”

“We’re not going to take no for an answer because we’re trying to help you,” he was told.

“One time I was locked in the Celebrity Centre with one of their staff recruiters. It was about 3 am, and unbeknownst to us we were actually locked in the building…He wouldn’t let up…It got to the point where he was running some kind of auditing process on me, where he puts the contract in my hand, and he puts the pen in my hand. And he starts running a process. And he starts going, ‘Put that pen on that paper! Thank you! Withdraw. OK, good. Now put your pen on that paper. Good. Sign the contract!'”

He managed to resist all efforts to recruit him to staff or the Sea Org, and walked away from Scientology in 2012. We’re pleased that he was so quick to go public with what he experienced — sometimes it can take a person years to talk about what they went through in the church. Steve Mango’s memories are fresh, and they ring true.

Now we hope someone can work with him on a shorter film!


Scientologist falls to his death in Clearwater

The Tampa Bay Times reported that a man fell to his death from the eighth floor of a building in Clearwater Tuesday morning, and researchers at quickly identified him as a Scientologist (and Smurf at ESMB added a trove of info).

Evgeny Zharkin was 43 years old and was from Russia, the source of an increasing number of Florida church workers. His involvement in Scientology included its business front group WISE, but otherwise there’s little information about him so far. If you have more information about his background in the church, let us know.


Smuggled video of what a Sea Org meeting is like

Radio Paul posted this video yesterday after finding it on the Internet and cleaning up its sound. But he admitted to us that he wasn’t sure where it had first come from.

We told him we’re pretty sure it was one of the items funneled out of Scientology by Yulia Keaton, the woman who infiltrated the Sea Org briefly last year with a number of recording devices, including a camera in a tampon.

While we think Keaton was reckless when she infiltrated the church, we agreed with Radio Paul that this is a pretty interesting look inside a Sea Org meeting.



Posted by Tony Ortega on January 29, 2014 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.


Share Button
Print Friendly, PDF & Email
  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Haven’t found a single bit of information on Gene (Egveney) Zharkin’s wife or his residence, other than on WWP he was renting, didn’t own the condo. But upon hearing reading this on WwP and ESMB:
    ** According to his company website, Evgeny Zharkin worked in branding & advertising with fellow Scilon David Brier, owner of DBD International in Wisconsin.”

    I shuddered at the thought. David Brier and his wife are major fundraisers for ideal orgs and IAS vulture culture. Both his and Zharkin’s company sites have that slippery wordage to make it Seem like they have certain clients, but if you read it closely, not really. Advertising, promotion, business consultants are main themes for sci businesses that glow, but only in the dark.

    Here’s a look back at “Yo Baby” Brier and you will understand why I shudder. Oh, he”branded” that Yo. Brilliant.

    • MaxSpaceman

      Yeah! Brilliant — She: “We’re gonna Yo Babytize you!!” and He: “Yeah, you’re gonna get your official ‘Yo Babification’ certificate”. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.

    • Observer

      There are douchebags in every segment of the human population, but Scientology douchebags seem to have a certain special … something.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        The fundraisers, reggers, whalers, and biz consultants are definitely a special breed.

      • FromPolandWithLove

        I have suspicion that David “Yo Baby” Brier is Grant Cardone’s long lost brother, or cousin at least.

        • Observer

          They certainly share some douchey DNA!

    • Sunny Sands

      Add in the fact that the Zharkins were Russian, and may not have understood American culture very well. They could have thought this was normal.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Don’t have a second confirmation on this, but from divided by zero caught this picture from 2006. I can’t get this article translated in Google. Maybe some else can translate and we can confirm. Also hoping having a picture, someone will recognize who knew him.

      • Robert Eckert

        He is selling “One Home” fire suppression systems.

      • I haven’t got the time at the moment, but I recalled the video the Scottish journalist/comedian, Hardeep Singh Kholi did for the Channel 4. It was called ‘The Beginner’s Guide to L. Ron Hubbard’…I am pretty sure it only focuses on the Indie community in Russia but I think about half way through he’s doing beginning Scientology training. I wonder if the guy above can be seen in any of the videos? I suppose not, though, as it doesn’t sound like he’s an Indie. I did find it interesting to see the Russian interpretation of Scientology (again, an Indie version).

        ETA: it wasn’t BBC Scotland; it was Channel 4

  • Observer

    The result of a conversation earlier today. Sorry it’s so huge–there was a lot to get in.

    The ship in the first pic is a random corvette. The one in the second pic is the actual ship Ron used to drop depth charges on a magnetic anomaly and shell the Mexican island. The photo was taken a scant 8 days before Ron got his grubby mitts on her. That’s also one of the Coronado islands in the background.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Love these side by side comparisons. You found the actual corvette too. I’m getting accustomed to the awesome. Thanks, as always.

    • ze moo

      The Co$ has claimed that Lroon was a ‘commodore’ of corvettes. Eventually, you pump enough hot air into a balloon and it explodes..

      • Observer

        Ack, you’re right. I was thinking Commodore but my fingers typed Commander. I’ll fix that before I put it on flickr.

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      Thank you. This is great! I was waiting for this particular piece in your Truth About Ron series, and you nailed it here. Easily my favorite chapter in Barefaced Messiah.

    • Eclipse-girl

      TY. TY. TY.

      You spoke of this in the morning; I am so happy I waited.

    • MaxSpaceman

      The Lying Liars that Lie – starting with Commo-liar-dore Hubbard and his faux navy Sea Orgers

    • Priscilla

      Very powerful, Observer. I enjoyed the comparison between myth and actuality.

    • Sibs

      I think my favorite is the fact that he claims he was played by Henry Fonda in a WWII movie (A Piece of Blue Sky says Mr. Roberts. He would just loooooove to think that he was that heroic.

      • Robert Eckert

        Maybe the crazy captain in Mr. Roberts was based on him?

        • Eclipse-girl

          Ron would be so lucky to be played by such a great actor as James Cagney

        • BigMcLargeHuge

          Definitely Captain Queeg in Caine Mutiny.

      • Gerard Plourde

        He actually claimed that? What an egomaniac.

    • Funny! Educational!
      Thank you! He really is such a wanker, isn’t he?

  • Jimmy Threetimes

    2:10 in the Sea Org video. A woman gets up and walks to the back. At a glance, it appears to be an attractive blonde. Sea Org’s McLovin, the guy with glasses to the left of the pillar, wouldn’t mind taking a second glance, and maybe he can steal a view from behind. Notice the technique of his casual head-turn to yawn combo. He must have practiced this. But wait.. He doubles back for that second look… Not so smooth, McLovin. Grade: D-

    • Sunny Sands

      Thanks for the location, I wanted to go back and view that again. I had a different take, though. A man on the right looks at her leaving, then the man you pointed out looks. Then a girl on the right looks, then a girl on the left looks. I think none of them could believe she actually walked out. They’re thinking, “I want to do that, too!”.

      • Jimmy Threetimes

        That is probably what they were all thinking, but not Sea Org McLovin. Sea Org McLovin is on a billion-year booty-watchin contract, and he’s not gonna miss a glimpse.

  • DeElizabethan

    Just in – off topic. Clearwater Patch article. 2nd Annual Fort Harrison Charity Tea Party Invites Community to the Wild West. Anyone for tea?

    • SandiCorrena

      My goodness they LOVE their varieties of tea-seems like I saw one of their hotel reviewers going on and on about the selection of teas while at the pool on Yelp. They must of bought in bulk!

  • Suppressive Tomato

    I love that CO$ is paying Google to place ads about David Miscavige, and they’re ending up on the Bunker. I’m assuming CO$ doesn’t understand how Google Ad Words work, exactly … or maybe they do and they’re just trying to bring some theta to the fringes of the Internet:

    • Suppressive Tomato

      P.S. I clicked on it to be sure they get charged. Now that’s what I call exchange!

      • DeElizabethan

        Well, I gave them a stat but last one ever. What a bunch of PR he apparently needs for all the court cases.

    • ShoopZ

      I think they must understand. Tory and Karen’s videos on youtube ALWAYS have Co$ ads.

      • Robert Eckert

        The stupid computer gives you whatever ads match words that you have searched for before, or that appears in the titles or writeups of a lot of videos you have watched. So anybody who watches or looks for videos about “scientology” is going to get “scientology” ads. It usually doesn’t work as ironically as it does here: people who search for gardening tips and watch gardening videos all the time aren’t going to be repulsed by “gardening supplies” ads.

        • ShoopZ

          Yup. That must be the case. I deleted all Youtube cookies and now there are no more Co$ ads.

        • Sandy

          Mr Howdy schooled me on this. There is free software to download that will block all this crap. Since I took his advice, I have not had an unwanted ad. Really.

  • media_lush
    • Verve

      I love this stuff. Is this your site?

      • MaxSpaceman

        It is.

  • kmadelyn

    Excellent idea to edit this down to a personal testimony! Steven is personable, & easy to relate to for anyone familiar with aspiring actors; you can’t help but like him. Was wary from the point I read that the piece clocked in at 2.5 hours–longer (I think) than many Herzog films. Felt guilty as I began dozing after the 1st 60 mins, because he’s an appealing, gentle soul, & good at talking to the camera; but there was way too much content. It is tempting to include EVERYTHING you can think of, kitchen-sink & all, but this is why content needs to be brutally edited before publishing. Making use of the tips suggested above (& below), though, this could be a fine caveat emptor re the Scilons for any actor in LA trying to make it in TV/film.

  • WhereIsSHE
    • domitare

      OMG! You actually went there, LOL.

  • outraged

    I completely understand how and why Steven fell into the cult. The SAME thing happened to me, just a different cult. I was young, confused, frustrated, looking for answers to why I was so miserable and why everyone around seemed so happy and together. I had just spent a year abroad and coming back to the US all I could see was the excess and greed of this country and the self-righteous- we are the center of the world- attitude of my friends. I was easy bait for a cult. They promised self-awareness. This cult did deliver BUT like $cientology, in the end, it was all about the money and all about recruiting.

    We have no right to judge other peoples decisions. We all make the best decisions we can at the moment.

    Thank you Steven for telling your story and having the courage to lay it all out there for everyone to hear. You kept your humanity and your emotional life intact while stuck inside and you were able to get the hell out of Dodge when it was time to go. And not a moment too soon. Bravo!!

  • Mimi Armagh Parrow

    I enjoyed Steven’s movie & found it informative 🙂 I wish him the best of luck & all my love

  • Captain Howdy

    Steven is Beyond the Valley of the Clams now

    Hooray for Hollywood

  • Xenu Was A Nihilist

    I too had to watch Steve’s vid in sections, but just two. I am happy he was able to untangle from the Cult, I hope some other ExTologists see his vid and will want to collaborate with him to make a shorter, more succinct presentation. Nothing like more and more and more testimonials from Exies telling their own stories of being sucked in, indoctrinated and eventual escape.

  • TXCowgirl

    I just came across this tweet from earlier this month. Do any of our able, intelligent, thoughtful Bunkerites have advice for the twitterer? (or do you glean that he only wants advice from a scilloon?)

    • TXCowgirl

      This is Wishnoff’s imdb page:

    • Snippy_X

      Scientology won’t help her, even if they knew how. She has no money. He will find that out the hard way, if he thinks “diversity” extends to abusive cults.

      • TXCowgirl

        I fear his scientologist friends will suggest she go to Narconon.

        • Snippy_X

          Yes, but not for free.

          • Eivol Ekdal

            The gall of Kirstie raiding a foodbank!!!

  • Jo

    Just found this on youtube, looks similar to Sea Org vid?

    • valshifter

      that tampon cam is doing wonders, from her tampon to the world, behold the Sea Org!

  • Hingle McCringleberry petition to revoke 501c status for Scientology. Need 150 sigs before this is public! Hook me up! I wrote this all by myself:

  • valshifter

    I found this conversation on YouTube about Mango’s movie, Mango could you address the question, this person is saying; in the two and 1/2 hr movie you never explained what was that kept you inside?

    Q I insist. The better question is what was he getting out of it while he was in there to make him stay for that long.

    A Insist all you want. Maybe you should watch the video and get your answer :-)

    Q I did. And he never explains what it was that kept him inside the cult and paying thousands and thousands for so long.

    • KingofSweden

      I agree… as an artist and a student of humanity and its motives, I’m constantly seeking to understand why people believe what they believe, and why they do what they do what they do.

      I am sincerely interested in a first-hand account of what “wins” a brand-new Scientologist achieves that keeps him/her moving forward into the cult…. I really mean it. Why do people believe (at first) that Scientology works? That is the burning question relevant to non-Scientologist/never-ins.

      • valshifter

        to me was the fact that they showed me how to look at my own pictures in may head, and that I could work thru them and re-live them again, that simple little thing hook me up , I DID NOT KNOW I HAD PICTURES IN MY HEAD. plus the personal attention that the Dianetics auditor gives you, plus not talking at me, I hated people that always wanted to give me advice, and to find someone that was instead willing to listen I thought it was very kind. from that point forward I got the Idea that going deeper into the subject it was going to be even better. some people might have different reasons. till they started bothering me for money, I could not take it.

        • Jimmy Threetimes

          Non-judgemental follow-up question: do you really believe they taught you how to look at pictures in your head, or was it that you simply never thought of it that way until they used that phrasing?

          It’s a very basic thing, you can think of a person or an object and form a mental image of the subject in your mind. Think of an apple. Can you see the apple?

          • valshifter

            it wasn’t real to me, to have pictures in my head till they show me how. I thought of myself as a body and I knew I had a spirit but totally ignored the fact that I also had pictures. and even worse I did not know what to do with them. I was in a very confuse state when they found me.

          • Anamorphosis

            Not everyone naturally can see images in their head as well as others. Some people are more prone to thinking and remembering in tactile and sensory modes. Some people remember and think in sounds more readily. And some people focus more on images. The majority of people are able to combine these in some fashion. However, there are people who lean heavily in one direction or another. This is a concept often talked about in NLP literature which, admittedly, has had its own issues with abuses. it is derived from Milton Erickson’s work with hypnosis and I wouldn’t be shocked if Scientology had mined some of the concepts as it can be useful for manipulating people.

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              I don’t know anything about NLP or Milton Erickson, but it seems to pique my interest. I’ll have to read more about it. I’ve always just taken it for granted that I can form a mental image of an object that I am familiar with. Not an especially detailed image, like someone with a “photographic memory” could recall, but what I would consider to be a fairly accurate image.

              Thank you for the reply, you have given me something to learn more about.

  • Hingle McCringleberry

    Here’s the full link. 150 signatures gets it on the full site. Rule states that 100K sigs and Big O has to at least address it. Click the link, people. Squeaky wheel gets the GREASE!

    • Sideliner1

      please repost this so we can get signatures!!!
      we need everyone to sign!

  • Lady Squash

    “So what would we like to see repackaged in a shorter film?” Tony, I agree with you on all your points. The parts that worked for me were the parts where Steve was talking about his own personal experience and not the things he had not experienced personally like the Sea Org.

    That said, the first part held my attention and I had the feeling of “Yeah, it really is that bad. I’ve been there.”

  • MaxSpaceman

    In the continuing legal conflicts facing $cientology Inc., they do support one another through trying times.

    • MaxSpaceman

      and offer each other encouragement a la Grant Car done.

  • MaxSpaceman

    From ‘the good old days’, there’s a lot of negative opinion about the Website name that follows. Some dust up between those authors and Tony O and/or commenters; I never heard the exact reason.

    But that was then. And this is now. And this is what they are saying now.
    Scientology Celebrities & Human Rights
    ~ Revealing truths from inside the Church of Scientology Celebrity Centre International
    From everything we’ve ever read about Tony, no one in the news media have ever questioned his journalistic credentials or anything like that. So from where we stand, Tony is a legitimate journalist and the Village Voice blog & Underground Bunker are as reliable as any other journalistic blogs like the Huffington Post, NY Times blog, Washington Post blog, etc. In fact, when it comes to Scientology, we’ve encountered fewer errors in Tony’s reporting than in the NY Times & Washington Post blogs.

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      That’s from July 2013.

      • MaxSpaceman

        you saying that’s before the dust up.
        or after.

        • Jimmy Threetimes


          • MaxSpaceman

            oh- mea culpa. will edit.

  • Ardent

    I agree with Tony that Steve’s film needs real tightening up – and it will pack a whallop! I have great respect for you, Steve, and you have done all of us, and yourself a great service. This needs to be seen by as many people as possible. I hope you’ll take all criticism as caring and positive. More power to you and all my best. Cheers.

  • Omg that woman talking is Vicki Shantz

  • Bob Gravlin

    And I thought the Amway people were bad a while back!! Some of our folks should walk the beat to let the upcoming celebs know what they are up against to help some of them avoid this rathole.