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Scientology’s Crumbling: Can Gerry Armstrong Begin to Think of Crossing the Border?

Gerry's passport photo, 1971

Gerry’s passport photo, 1971

Jon Atack is the author of A Piece of Blue Sky, one of the very best books on L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology. He has a new edition of the book for sale, and on Saturdays he’s helping us sift through the legends, myths, and contested facts about Scientology that tend to get hashed and rehashed in books, articles, and especially on the Internet.

The Church of Scientology may be around for years to come, but it’s in such dire straits at the moment, we can’t help thinking about some of the consequences if it suddenly went belly up. One of the first things that comes to our mind are the many people whose lives are affected negatively on an ongoing basis because of the church’s legacy of ripped apart families, onerous legal settlements, and silencing gag orders. One of the first people we’d like to see sprung from years of legendary harassment, for example, is British Columbia resident Gerry Armstrong, who avoids stepping foot in the United States because of a legal history that is almost too outlandish to believe.

It’s also a very complex history, and that’s why we’ve turned to Jon Atack for help. This week, we begin a series on Gerry Armstrong and his legal plight that we hope will eventually, perhaps, lead to some real changes to make up for an incredible legacy of shameful behavior against a man who simply tried to tell the truth.

Jon, to start out, can you tell us about the first time you met Gerry?

JON: In May 1984, I was asked to help out with a case which was going before Justice Latey in the High Court, in London. Two children had been left in the custody of their father, because a Scientology Chaplain’s Court had resolved that he was the better Scientologist and so the better parent. A couple of years down the line, escaped from the cult’s clutches, the mother and her new husband put together a truly remarkable case. Justice Latey would later rule in open court (unheard of in family cases in England), giving a 54-page ruling about the evil nature of Scientology, which he called “corrupt, immoral, and sinister.” Gerry had agreed to testify and we met a few days before the case opened.

It was a memorable day for me. I’d spent six months gathering whatever evidence I could, and interviewing anyone who would talk to me. Armstrong held the key to the famous Hubbard Archive. The mountain of information he’d collected — which ran into the hundreds of thousands of pages — had convinced him that Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard was an out and out, unregenerate fabulist. During that first meeting, the phone rang and Boston attorney Michael Flynn filled Gerry in on the details of Judge Paul Breckenridge’s decision in his favour in the groundbreaking California trial.

ScientologyMythbustingThat day, Gerry told me about a letter from Hubbard to his third wife, Mary Sue, where he talked about drinking rum and taking “pinks and greys” (which may well have been the drug Darvon, according to Gerry’s later research). The idea that Hubbard had been a drug user was utterly foreign to me, as a recovering Scientologist. Gerry also told me that Hubbard had taken phenobarbital.

I’d left the Tech a few months before, but I was still chary of showing OT III to the uninitiated. As it happened, I had shown a copy of the pack to a friend who’d left the church after doing OT II. He wanted to know if he should do OT III with the independents — or buy a Ducati motorcycle. I had no qualms about showing him the material, because he was ready for it, even in Scientology’s terms. I came back from my meeting with Gerry, and told my friend that Hubbard had been “on drugs” when he wrote OT III. He handed me the pack, and said, “Phenobarbital.” I had to do a double take, but he explained that as a young man, he’d taken this powerful barbiturate and that in high doses, it had made him feel that the world was exploding and that he had been fractured into separate entities. Later, of course, I saw the prescription for phenobarbital in Hubbard’s Navy records — for his purported ulcer — and found his own admission, in a lecture, that he’d been addicted to that barbiturate (the original Research and Discovery series, volume 1, at page 124). Of course, Hubbard had been talking publicly about “entities” as far back as 1952, and privately with his own guru, Arthur J Burks, long before that (they called them “the little its”), but the explosions were new, and the date of the “incident” coincides with the discovery of a great extinction, which was later redated by scientists.

I arranged one other meeting before Gerry flew back to the US, but we were hijacked by three former Sea Org execs — all of whom were declared Suppressive, and all of whom thought that Gerry was working for the FBI. I was charmed by the friendly way in which Gerry dealt with their obvious aggression. When asked if he believed in the state of Clear, Gerry smiled and said that he’d yet to meet one. My most important memory of that meeting was a comment Gerry made about a “scale” he’d found in Hubbard’s papers, which placed the Fool at the top — the illumined sage, unperturbed by suffering and above the world — and “fanatics and zealots” below the Fool, acting as a sort of trampoline. This was a profound insight into the Tech behind the Tech — Hubbard’s intention was to create a band of followers (I call them Dev-OTs) who would follow his will without question. He believed that he could become a sort of god through this means.

THE BUNKER: That year, 1984, was a remarkable one for Scientology history. But let’s now go back to the beginning; Gerry grew up in Chilliwack, British Columbia and was introduced to Scientology at 22 by a friend in 1969. He began attending courses at the org in Vancouver, and then in 1971 went to Los Angeles to sign up with the Sea Org.

JON: Gerry joined the flagship Apollo, from which L. Ron Hubbard, as “Commodore,” ran Scientology from a small armada of ships that plied the Mediterranean, Atlantic, and Caribbean from 1966 to 1975. Gerry was the port captain, so he became familiar with the invention of “shore stories” — cover stories to throw off the locals about what Scientology was really up to. In 1974 he was married on the yacht to Terri Gilham, a member of a famous Scientology dynasty (and stepdaughter of Heber Jentzsch) and Pat Broeker married Trudy Venter in a double ceremony…

 
BroekerArmstrong

 
THE BUNKER: That’s Pat and Trudy on the left, and Gerry and Terri on the right.

And the Commodore looked like he had a whale of a time…

 
ArmstrongWedding

 
The next year, the Apollo finally stopped its wanderings and Scientology invaded Florida, eventually taking over the town of Clearwater. But Hubbard had to keep moving to stay ahead of process servers, particularly after the FBI raided the church in Los Angeles and Washington DC in 1977 over Operation Snow White, Scientology’s infiltration of government offices. By 1979 Armstrong was part of a Household Unit that was preparing a house for Hubbard to move into at the Gilman Hot Springs property, near Hemet, California. And that’s when one of Armstrong’s juniors stumbled upon a collection of boxes.

JON: It was over twenty boxes of material that had followed Hubbard in his travels — from the US to England — and it seems likely that no one had ever leafed through their contents. In this treasure trove were Hubbard’s baby booties, his teenage journals, his hypnotic “Affirmations” or “Admissions,” and the magic ceremonies that immediately preceded the creation of Dianetics and Scientology. Gerry saved them from the shredder, and on January 8, 1980, he requested permission to start a biographical archive. Permission was granted, and, because Hubbard went into deep hiding at this time, he was unavailable to rescind the order. Gerry even managed to requisition a car and traveled around interviewing key Hubbard supporters. He was also in touch with many early supporters, including Don Rogers, whose appendices were still printed in Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health into the 1980s, and who gave me the title of my book.

Armstrong was devastated by what he found in Hubbard’s documents. The cult’s appointed biographer, Dan Sherman, tells us that this material shows that Hubbard was a real life Indiana Jones. What Armstrong discovered was a real life Walter Mitty, a Baron Munchausen, a Billy Liar. When the movie Dive Bomber was about to be shown, because Hubbard claimed to have written it, Armstrong was able to show that this was not the case: Hubbard had written a few scripts for the movie serial The Secret of Treasure Island, but had no major Hollywood credits. Worse yet, Armstrong found that Hubbard’s claims to being a war hero were entirely fabricated. Hubbard’s “war wound” was a fall down a ship’s ladder. His only active service was a 55-hour battle against a magnetic deposit off the coast of Oregon, followed by shelling a Mexican island, after which he was removed from command.

Armstrong took his concerns to his bosses, only to be accused of treason. When no one would listen, and he was being threatened with punitive action, Gerry fled, and the then official biographer, Omar Garrison, gave him copies of some of the more damning material. Judge Breckenridge cleared Gerry of any “theft” of documents.

The cult continues to claim that Gerry “stole” this material, and even the august New Yorker wrongly accused me of using “stolen materials” because of this claim. The truth is that the cult failed in its claim of “conversion” — or theft — before Breckenridge, because of the dire circumstances created by the cult. Judge Breckenridge ruled that Armstrong was within his rights to deliver the documents to his attorney, to protect himself from the very real possibility of harm under the Fair Game doctrine. Gerry also wanted to protect the truth of Hubbard’s life, well aware that this material would otherwise disappear down the memory hole. As Judge Breckenridge said: “He believed that the only way he could be sure that the documents would remain secure for his future use was to send them to his attorneys, and that to protect himself, he had to go public so as to minimize the risk that LRH, the Church, or any of their agents would do him physical harm.”

Instead, in typical mad dog mode, Scientology’s ruling clique subjected Gerry to a full-scale attack. At one point, there was even an attempt — which is recorded in the Breckenridge decision — to run Gerry off the road, which could have resulted in his death.

THE BUNKER: As you put it in Blue Sky: “The myth of L. Ron Hubbard was badly fractured. It seemed that his mesmeric hold over Scientologists, whether Church members or Independents, was slipping. The trance could only be maintained through a stubborn refusal to consider the material now available.”

JON: If the cult had left Gerry alone, it is very possible that the debacle of the early 1980s, during which time about half of the membership left — would not have happened.

THE BUNKER: And as we’ll see, Scientology’s mad dog mode was only beginning for Gerry Armstrong.

 
——————–

Links of Note

If you haven’t seen them yet, a couple of nice articles published yesterday sum up the Leah Remini situation so far — Dana Kennedy at The Hollywood Reporter suggests that Leah may be worried about the church culling her confidential auditing files for damaging information in a retaliation campaign. And Hollie McKay has an interesting piece at FoxNews.com which includes some interesting prognosticating by public relations experts about how they expect the church to deal with the disastrous press fallout continuing after Remini’s defection became known.

On the odder side, there’s a weird piece about Dennis Erlich at VICE and an even weirder one about Lawrence Wollersheim at Forbes. We’re gathering some information for a longer look at the Forbes piece in a few days.

Oh, and one more thing. Coming Thursday: PZ!

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on August 3, 2013 at 07:00

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  • DodoTheLaser

    So, Gerry Armstrong, once dedicated scientologist, was working on Hubbard’s official biography, found out Ron lied a lot, dared to suggest some PR corrections, was sort of kicked in a chin, blew and took the dox with him.

    The rest is history. As in Hubbard’s “Admissions”. As in Gerry’s persecutions/dead agenting of his persona.
    To this day.

    “Can Gerry Armstrong Begin to Think of Crossing the Border?”

    He really has every right to do so, from what I know.
    I don’t know Gerry personally, but I salute him!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Dox are the Kryptonite of Planet Scientology. Hence, those who escape with Dox are exalted as Super Men or Wimmen. They have the true Super Powers. Meanwhile, back at their headquarters, the Super Power building now is manned by 100 sci janitors standing guard over the Super Shredder of all Evil Dox, just in case. Miscavige is now referred to as “Maintenance Man”.

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        His full name is Gerry Lex Luthor Armstong. His close buds call him Brainiac.

        • Observer

          Haha!

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          I knew it!

        • N. Graham

          And Way Back in the day he was nicknamed the Prankster and Toyman.

    • Observer

      There can never be too many links to the Admissions:

      http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/writings/ars/ars-2000-03-11.html

    • splog

      Anyone who was in and still had the foresight and balls to preserve those dox deserves this award:

      Gerry is welcome in my house any time, he’s welcome to share my beer.

      I’m South African and trust me, we don’t share our beer with just anyone. You get to earn that right 🙂

    • USA MRIID

      Always always always flee with the documentation. Always. Any crime syndicate — not just Scientology — needs customers and owners/operators to flee with the documentation so that criminal and civil proceedings may be brought against the crime bosses. Even if it results in the individuals themselves being indicted, the fact that they came clean helps mitigate their own trial punishments, if any.

  • i-Betty

    Tony doesn’t use exclamation marks very often. I NEED to know what ‘PZ!’ means.

    !

    • Ciru

      PZ Myers doing the History of Man read-through.

      • i-Betty

        Ooh, thank you! This PZ Myers?

        “Paul Zachary “PZ” Myers is an American scientist and associate professor of biology at the University of Minnesota Morris. He is founder and co-author of the Pharyngula science blog, hosted on both the Science Blogs and Freethought Blogs networks.”

        • Ciru

          That’s him. Tony announced it a month or so ago I think.

          I can’t wait.

          • i-Betty

            How did I miss that? Thank you, Ciru! I can join in with everyone’s excitement now 😀

            (I knew it had to be a biggie for Tony to crank out the old !)

          • BananaSplits8

            Any takers that M. Myers’ initial response to Tony was “wtf did I just read?!”

            • Robert Eckert

              Pretty much: “If this combo [two books on the “Cambrian explosion”, one by a pair of honest-to-God paleontologists and the other by a dishonest-for-God creationist] does not hurl me down the stairs of madness into the abyss of total chaotic brain-scrambling, there’s a third book gazing ominously at me from the bookshelf. I’ve been asked to consult with Tony Ortega, who runs an anti-scientology website on a public evisceration ofScientology: A History of Man by L. Ron Hubbard. It’s a “cold-blooded and factual history of your last 76 trillion years” — it contains Scientology’s version of evolution. I’m pretty sure I’ll be curled into a fetal ball, gibbering, by August.”

        • Graham
    • shasha40

      PZ Myers, a very funny knowledgable man , who will be gracing us with his presence .

  • i-Betty

    I’m thrilled that Tony and Jon are tackling Gerry’s story in depth. It’s one of the most extraordinary (and protracted) episodes in the cult’s history and deserves the Bunker spotlight. Thank you, both. And my love to Gerry, who I have huge respect for.

    • USA MRIID

      I still think “Miss Bloodybutt” is one of the most freakish Scientology stunts every pulled.

  • Xique

    Wow! Gerry’s story is powerful, so far anyway. A real hero . I know he’s had to hang on for dear life throughout this fight and for this I say , “Bless You Gerry Armstrong.”

    • Peter

      All that documentation from the court, especially the condemnation of Hubbard and czerch and the exposure of LRH as the top link in every facet of the organization, should certainly be useful to the attorneys in the class action lawsuit. As the inheritor of LRH’s position, misk holds all the same puppet strings. And my Lady suggests those documents should be widely published in as many places as possible on the net. What an incredibly damning document!

      • Xique

        Why yes, of course .

  • Ciru

    If Armstrong was cleared of theft by the judge, why can’t he cross the border into the USA? Was there another court case afterwards?

    • i-Betty

      Taken from Gerry’s Wikipedia page:

      “In December 1986, the parties entered into a settlement agreement under which CSI paid Armstrong, $800,000 in exchange for his dismissal of claims against CSI. Armstrong agreed to not publish orally or in writing any information about his experience with CSI, and that he would be liable for $50,000 for each breach of confidentiality. On October 17, 1995, a California court concluded that Armstrong had breached the agreement and awarded CSI $321,932 in damages and $334,671.75 in court costs. The court also enjoined Armstrong from assisting others with lawsuits against CSI.[2]

      Armstrong apparently continued to assist people with lawsuits against CSI and posting information about CSI on the Internet because on three occasions – June 1997; February 1998; and December 2000 – courts found Armstrong in contempt of its previous order and in violation of his settlement agreement. These violations resulted in $3,600 in fines and an order that he be confined in jail for 26 days. However, Armstrong claimed to be living in British Columbia, Canada, never showed up for court, and was never confined.[3]

      On April 2, 2002, CSI sued Armstrong for $10,050,000 for breaches of his settlement agreement. Armstrong admitted that he had breached the agreement more than 200 times, but claimed that parts of the agreement were illegal, unconstitutional and unenforceable. At trial on April 9, 2004, the court found that 131 breaches of the agreement did occur, but found that it would be unconscionable to “punish” Armstrong with liquidated damages in excess of the $800,000 he received as a benefit under the settlement agreement. Noting that Armstrong had previously been “sanctioned” in the sum of $300,000, the court entered judgment for CSI in the amount of $500,000.[4]”

      Keep it up, Gerry, you cheeky monkey! xxx

      • Watergate

        What i-Betty says is correct. There’s a court judgment that Gerry is legally subject to. What I’ve never understood is what Gerry’s current goals are regarding that judgment. Or what actions he’s currently pushing for to achieve his goals. Or who he thinks can / should help him achieve his goals. And what those people would / should do to help Gerry achieve his goals. This part has always been fuzzy for me. I’d love to hear the short version of this.

        • Spackle Motion

          Who can help him achieve the goal of coming back to the States???

          Marty Rathbun
          Mike Rinder

          Do they lift a single finger to help? No. Why? Because they are assholes with agendas, which describes them when they were in the cult. To make matters worse, they trash talk Armstrong at every opportunity.

          • Watergate

            What does Gerry want Rathbun and Rinder to do — and how would that be effective? This is a sincere question.
            BTW, Marty didn’t trash Armstrong in his third book, which is the only book by Rathbun I’ve read.

            • Spackle Motion

              He wants them to debrief with his attorney(s) and possibly testify on his behalf about the harmful and illegal actions they took/ordered and operated in concert with others. He does not want an apology, he wants them to work with his lawyers to help clear up his US legal status.

              Rathbun and Rinder refuse to do this, which exposes their obscene hypocrisy when they tout themselves as helping Scientology’s victims. They cherry pick and maintain an elitist, arrogant attitude in the process, which tells me that they have major character flaws and lack the ability to really see the harm they inflicted on others.

            • Watergate

              Thanks, Spackle.

            • lightblb62

              This is correct. I am 10 minutes from the Canadian border. If you had a driving ticket when you were 18 and are now 40+ it can prevent your entry into BC. One CAN write a letter to forgive the “crime” and gain entry but it’s a long process. Basically if you were ever arrested or have anything like a misdemeanor.. you can’t get into Bc.

            • RMycroft

              It depends on the misdemeanor and if it would be a felony in Canada (e.g. DUI). Bottom line: get the paperwork straightened out first.

            • Robert Eckert

              Rathbun can demonstrate that the {church} was in violation of the settlement agreement first. That might expose him to liability, however, since he carried out many of the illegal actions. Therefore he trashes Armstrong rather nastily from what I have seen on his blog: however, I haven’t been there in a very long time (I lost interest in it, and was seldom permitted to reply to comments anyhow) and haven’t read any of his books.

            • Kim O’Brien

              he posts enough excerpts on his blog …it really is awful stuff to even TRY to plow through. The only people who understand it are the ones who are used to reading word salad …or listening to Sarah Palin . My friends daughter …i kid you not ..is 12 and just got into Denver School of the Arts ( great school ..have to audition ) she got in for creative writing ….a 12 year old writes better than him …i read her essay . It was about the Tao of Pooh ( irony …sweet as nectar )

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Tao of Pooh? Sounds like that school is lucky to have her. winner!

            • Kim O’Brien

              yup …pretty amazing . Her mother is very proud . My daughter is auditioning in November for singing and theater …

      • Studious Judious

        You gotta love that! Win a settlement from CSI with a stipulated gag order, then completely ignore the gag order. That’s just awesome.

        • RMycroft

          First Scientology ignored their half of the agreement by continuing their attacks, according to Gerry.

        • USA MRIID

          Actually the agreement was bidirectional, the crime syndicate promised to stop their Fair Game racketeering against him however the crime syndicate continued, right through the agreement. The criminal enterprise violated the agreement first, then Gerry was free to speak.

      • Watergate

        I’ll try to be both practical and provocative here. I don’t think Gerry seriously expects Marty or Mike to collaborate with him in changing his legal or migration status. If he did, I imagine he would approach them differently than he does. Instead, we get kabuki theatre on every blog and board in Christendom. After a while, it becomes easy to ignore as noise and tl;dr.

        • Kim O’Brien

          Huh ?

        • RMycroft

          I believe that he did write to them first and got no response.

  • Simon

    I wish the Sciloons would piss off the wrong person who has the resources, the time and the money to bring them down. I’d love to see them try and harass Rupert Murdoch. In fact, last year he commented on Twitter that he thinks they’re sinister and evil. I hoped it was the beginning of a campaign by him using his media conglomerate to demolish the Sciloons because of attempts by a certain movie star to recruit one of Murdoch’s sons. Nothing further happened unfortunately but I’d love to see the Sciloons try and take on Murdoch. Whatever you think of the man personally, he has the power to ruin those fuckers. One can only hope.

    • i-Betty

      Ohh, yes. We picked up on that here at the time. Murdoch is one of the few people who can literally thumb their noses with impunity, and thankfully he’s chosen to thumb that nose at the CoS, who he genuinely loathes and scorns. The word has certainly gone out across his media empire because we’ve been seeing more and more anti-CoS reporting from his ‘stable’ in the wake of Murdoch’s tweets.

      • Hubbard’s Boil

        Murdoch characterizing anyone or anything as “sinister and evil” is a real hoot. Pot, meet kettle. I hate to mix metaphors, but he and L Ronny are two sides of the same coin.

    • Peter

      I certainly would be extremely cautious with someone like a Murdoch. The old “wisdom” of “The enemy of my enemy is my friend” has bounced back viciously both in politics and war.

      • I like to sit back and watch when two “enemies” go at each other. It’s a fun time to be had. It doesn’t make them my friends.

      • RMycroft

        The enemy of my enemy is useful now and crunchy later.

        • scottishinlondon

          That sounds like an Orcish proverb to me

          • Robert Eckert

            It sounds better in the original Klingon.

    • Watergate

      From what I’ve read (don’t know this personally), Murdoch despises Scientology and is increasingly willing to take it on via his media resources (as the cult’s brand has fallen to whale-shit levels and is, itself, pretty much fair game by all media now) because at some time in the past the cult tried to seduce Murdoch’s son. If others have dox and detailed info about this myth, please share with us. Thx.

      • TonyOrtega

        I heard from my Australian press friends that actually, Murdoch’s distaste for Scientology goes back way before his son’s possible encounter with recruitment. In the 1960s, I’m told, Murdoch’s papers there gave Hubbard a serious thrashing, and Murdoch has considered Scientology a menace ever since.

        • Watergate

          Many thanks, Tony.

        • ze moo

          The Aussies investigated Lroon and scam very hard during the 60’s. Some of the best writings on the scam come from Australia. The Aussies have not been hesitant to report on their news TV shows and newspapers. If only Fosters were a better beer……

          http://www.xenu.net/archive/audit/ofpapers.html

          • Ciru

            They don’t drink Fosters in Australia. It’s just a well-advertised export beer. Stuff like VB or Carlton isn’t bad.

    • N. Graham

      $cientology-uniting the left and the right (against them). And people try to say they aren’t uniters!

    • villagedianne

      This already happened. His name was Bob Minton and according to Wikipedia he spent over 10 million fighting the COS..Minton founded the Lisa McPherson Trust, in Clearwater, Florida, right in the belly of the beast. Scientologty fair-gamed the hell out of him. Here is a quote from the Wiki entry:

      “Minton’s turn came after a Scientology probe onto his financial affairs.[5] Minton was repeatedly ordered to attend depositions and grilled by Scientology lawyers about his alleged financial dealings.[5] In addition, years later former church members detailed how Scientology investigated Minton finding information he was “worried about”.[13] Critics of Scientology believe that Minton was blackmailed by the Church of Scientology.[5] On March 16, 2002 Minton called Mike Rinder and on April 6 of that year they met.[5] At that meeting Minton told Rinder that there were lies told in the case, he feared Scientology would uncover those lies in court and he would be sent to jail for perjury.[5]”

      Basically COS was able to defeat Minton, but not before Minton did a lot of good work against the cult. Among other things, Minton was of great help to Tory Chirstman when she first excaped out. Many critics judged Minton harshly at the end, but I would rather praise the good work he did. Scientology is, after all, a formidable enemy to take on.

  • Yeppir

    Gerry Armstrong is on the top of my list of heroes in this fight against the lies and corruption and graft and abuse (and…and…and) of the clam cult. Thank you for bringing his history and his light to the fore. Gerry has withstood much, all in the name of truth. Hat tip and a heartfelt thank you to Mr. Armstrong.

    • Interested

      Yep. Your courage is something to admire as are your “ethics”

      I too begin to ask. Where is Shell?

  • BosonStark

    Like the stories of many others to come forward after Gerry, Gerry’s story shows that the real enemy of Scientology was never the SPs, the “evil psychs,” or the Marcabian Invader force but just the truth.

    • Missionary Kid

      Just the truth, ma’am, just the truth. – I can imagine Jack Webb saying it on Dragnet

      • richelieu jr

        Dressed just like a Marcabian, of course.

        • Missionary Kid

          Of course.

          Trivia question: Where did Sgt. Friday supposedly live?

          • Robert Eckert

            13th street? I don’t know.

            • Missionary Kid

              He supposedly lived in the community of Eagle Rock, which is a part of L.At. I was watching an old episode of Dragnet when it was mentioned.

            • John P.

              Wow… Eagle Rock before it was cool. And I’m still feeling tied in knots mentally at the idea that Eagle Rock is now becoming cool, apparently. (Some would argue that Eagle Rock was cool all along because they always had an original Tommy Burger on Colorado Blvd.)

            • Missionary Kid

              Eagle Rock was a bedroom community in the 50s and 60s. A lot of cops and firemen lived there and raised their families.The next generation of cops and firemen moved to outlying communities. It was basically a working class community when Dragnet was filmed.

              It has always had a community feel to it because most of it sits in a valley that runs from Pasadena to Glendale, and, at the eastern head of the valley, sits the Eagle Rock. There is a ridge between most of Eagle Rock and the rest of L.A. There used to be a ham radio operator who called the place Buzzard Gulch.

              One grammar school recently had its 100 year anniversary, which is old for L.A. The high school wasn’t built until the late 20s, after it was annexed by L.A.

              You sound like you’ve had a Tommy Burger. The one in Eagle Rock has only been there since, I’d estimate, the 90s, on the site of a former Der Weinershnizel. I didn’t eat at the original one, located at Beverly and Ramparts, until the late 60s when a friend of mine, who went to USC, introduced me. There’s also one that is close to the Van Nuys airport.

              Story: I was eating at one of the outside ledges that are around the parking lot at the original Tommy’s, when a couple brought their chili burgers and settled nearby. I heard the guy say, “That’s not chili, it’s not very good.” Interested, I was wondering if he was from Texas or somewhere in the Southwest, where chili con carne first was introduced, so I listened further. “If you want some Real chili, you have to come to New York City.” Talk about provincialism. There’s as many different interpretations of chili as there are
              cooks.

            • John P.

              Very nice overview of Eagle Rock. I think the Tommy Burger on Colorado has been there since well before the 1990s, however; I specifically recall having my first Tommy Burger there no later than 1975 on a trip to see family who lived in the area at the time (which accounts for my earlier Eagle Rock comment; they were in San Marino, the Greenwich CT of the LA area).

              If you want an unusual chili experience, especially around fast food, there’s Greek style chili which can be found at the Skyline Chili and Gold Star Chili fast food chains in southern Ohio. There, it’s typically served on hot dogs or over macaroni.

            • Missionary Kid

              Is it true that there’s a tank in a stained glass window in the San Marino Episcopal Church? Supposedly, the Patton Family donated it in honor or Gen. Patton. An Episcopal priest told me that the church is the wealthiest in the denomination because the Patton family, which used to own much of San Marino and large tracts of the San Gabriel Valley, endowed the church with a large amount of money.

              When Patton was to be stationed in Hawaii, he bought a yacht and sailed it there, doing his own navigation. Later, when WWII started, he leased his private Stinson airplane to the army for $1 a year, had it painted in olive drab and maintained by the Army, and flew it around the vast desert training area that he commanded. That training area holds the record as the largest military land training area ever. It stretched from San Bernardino to Tucson, the Mexican border nearly to Lone Pine.

              One story about him was that he was meeting with a contractor who built a lot of the facilities for the training area who seemed to be in a hurry. Patton asked him what was the hurry. When the contractor told him he needed to leave get to Phoenix in time to pick up his wife who was coming in from L.A. Patton told him to take it easy, he’d take care of it. He had a tank parked across the tracks, flagged down the train, and took the wife off, giving the contractor several more hours with him and a quicker reunion with the wife.

              My guess about the Tommy Burger could well be wrong because I hadn’t been through there for a number of years. Revelation: I more or less grew up there, but didn’t stop there much in the 70s and 80s .

              As a kid, I used to hitchhike to the Rose Parade the night before and walk back over suicide bridge because the traffic was so congested. (The freeway didn’t exist then). As far as my friends and I were concerned, it was just an excuse to stay up all night. We’d spend all night trying to find a “better” seat, but when the parade started, pretty much ignored it.

              I also played football in the Rose Bowl – in high school. Pasadena, Muir, and occasionally other high schools in the area (us), and what was then Pasadena Jr. College periodically played there. It looked huge when we had a double homecoming game there because it was so empty with maybe a few thousand people. Later, when I went to a charity game and the New Years game, it seemed much smaller, I think that’s because being filled with people makes it seem that way. It was the finest turf I’ve ever played on.

              Just think, the Rose Parade and the New Year’s game were, like the Hollywoodland sign, just started as land development promotions.

              When I travel, I ask the locals where to eat, and I’ve stumbled into some great restaurants and regional food (and a very few crappy ones). I also learned that in some places, chili is only served “in season,” meaning when it’s cooler. Hell, I’ll eat it for breakfast, and have gotten an eye roll from a waitress when I ordered it. My stomach doesn’t require certain foods at certain times of the day. I’ll eat breakfast pizza or pie at times, and I’ve had a Tommy burger (with extra chili and onions) at 5 AM.

  • Bird88

    I Just read Martys book, Apparently David Miscavige is responsible for the terrible handling of the Armstrong case, he was the guy on the ground making the terrible judgments. As around that time Hubbard was being kept in seclusion by Miscavige, who then set up Authors Inc and RTC for himself and was content to let Hold power. So yeah this is was a Miscavige campaign from the start, he handled it terribly and fucked up, beyond any reconcilation, and attacked Gerry so much it seemed he pretty much had no choice but to leave Scientology and do what he done.

    • 0tessa

      Then Miscavige might be guilty of attempted murder on Gerry Armstrong.

      • Peter

        The more I think about young Misk, the more I think of the 1950 film, “The Bad Seed”. It’s not enough that he was raised in the czerch [I continue to use this spelling since a “church” it’s not!] and joined the SO. It seems there is an inherent evil quality in him, a disconnect from humanity where everyone close to him his under is total control. On the opposite hand he seems to be driven not only to harm others, but to vilify and destroy them in any way he can, a sort of consuming hatred, especially against someone over which he has little actual control. That he first planned and still continues to attack and harass Gerry seems proof positive that his hatred of others can be a lifelong “mission”.

        And speaking of films and books, another which comes to mind is the classic “The Picture of Dorian Gray”. As the truth continues to come out, Misk’s photos seem to be aging rather rapidly.

        • Espiando

          What Oscar Wilde accomplished with Dorian Gray, we can do more easily these days with Botox. I’m certain that The Dark Lord Chuckles The Silly Piggy has had Botox treatments.

        • N. Graham

          Little known (made-up) fact: LRon wrote the original screenplay for the “The Bad Seed” and based it on ‘Lil Davey.

        • Interested

          You have just described LRH as his son jr described him in the penthouse interview… Site above somewhere. Great read. Mis and LRH are one and the same. Psychopath !

          • Peter

            Most interesting. I’ve not yet read that interview. But my Lady emailed it to me and I shall do so.

    • richelieu jr

      Boy if Marty said it, it MUST be true!

      • Espiando

        Except that this time, it sounds plausible.

        • Gerard Plourde

          With the caveat that he was only applying standard Hubbard “tech” artlessly.

        • Ciru

          It does suit Marty’s agenda though, a little too well perhaps.

    • Captain Howdy

      And what does he say about his role in this evil deed?

    • GlibWog

      It was just a Metaphor

  • 0tessa

    If I was a millionaire I would pay all Gerry’s fines so that he could come to the US and bring all he knows into the open. He is the ‘dead agent’ for all of Scientology and Hubbard. I mean ‘dead agent’ in scientologese of course.

    • richelieu jr

      No way! That money would go right into Miscavige’s pocket!

      We can hear him very well from here and when DM is in Prison we could spend it Bon showering Gerry in the gory he deserves!

      • 0tessa

        I would have so much money left, that we could that set up a Gerry Armstrong Fundation to help ex-Scientologists with therapy e.g.

  • BananaSplits8

    From the article about Dennis Erlich: ” I was invited up to her beautiful house, this beautiful woman, great
    husband, great jobs… I happened to have some smoke with me at that
    point. I took her out to the balcony. I lit up and told her what the big
    secrets of Scientology were that she was striving to get to; the
    exorcism and all that jazz. She was like … what??? I explained
    the difference between reality and the lies. That was it, the end of her
    association with Scientology, and she went on to live a happy life.”

    *coffee spurts out my nose* What a surprising way to knock sense back into someone’s head… “what???” she said, lol.

    • pronoia

      At least he is having some fun. Teehee!

  • sugarplumfairy

    Scientology’s crumbling.. Beautiful, beautiful words..

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      I enjoyed “unregenerate fabulist” this morning as well.

      • richelieu jr

        A bit flowery for,my taste,NAND perhaps the words might be too long for independents to follow, though ‘big fat fucking liar’ doesn’t have quite the same ring, does it?

        • USA MRIID

          In Canada and other third world countries, nothing that someone is/was a fraud is a possible civil action case. The fact that the insane criminals *was* a fraud and that Scientology *is* organized crime is enough to win a civil lawsuit launched by the crime syndicate, of course, but that’s not the point of lawsuits according to the insane criminals running the syndicate.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Three cheers for a Series on Gerry Armstrong. It is The quintessential manifesto of scientology behind the curtains.

    Erlich and Wollersheim articles. Not enough coffee in the world to wake up to these two. Do I think it is just a coincidink that two journalists suddenly decided to probe these two icons of scientology history at this particular juncture? By juncture, I mean David Miscavige and his Merry Band of Paranoids fair gaming anything that blinks. My first impression was wondering if Miscavige has hired a new agency for PR or Smear Central. Hubbard’s PR and Smear how-to manuals Always end in keystone cop chaos. Has he hired new wogs for new tactics? That’s as far as my brain would take me with just one cup.

    But it was nice of Reilly to remind us about one of the 501c3 perks Miscaviage enjoys: “There is no dollar limit on parsonage exclusions”. Now I’m wondering if tents come under parsonages defined. Needs more coffee.

  • Spackle Motion

    You finally did it, Tony. I’ve been waiting for this story for awhile. Thank you!

    Gerry Armstrong is a polarizing figure with Scientologists, both in and out of the organization. I still do not understand (and no Indie has been able to fully articulate) why the Independents despise him so much, still to this day. Indies that despise Armstrong come off as….shall I say it…..bitter apostates that still buy into the con and want to protect the LRH image. This agenda makes them look weak and ridiculous. Armstrong exposed Scientology to be a complete fraud, and those that hold grudges appear to be misdirecting their anger and frustration.

    I do understand that several folks, after waking up, requested Armstrong to take down the digital history of their vitriolic fair game attacks against him and he refused. I understand that frustration, but the man went through more fair game trickery and bullshit that he deserves to keep a record/history. His trust level of his past attackers must be very low, so a reasonable person in a similar situation would probably do the same thing and keep the history for all to view.

    Armstrong’s resolve and attitude are commendable. If I were in his shoes, I probably would have bought the farm by now. Gerry is a personal hero of mine, warts and all.

    • AnonymousSP

      Thank you.

    • Observer

      The indies’ hatred of Gerry makes perfect sense to me, for a couple of reasons.

      1. He’s the messenger being shot for ruining their Thetopia with the truth (though they get partial credit for accepting it), and/or

      2. He dared blaspheme against Hubbard by exposing who/what he really was:

      • GlibWog

        hahahhaha I love little Davey in his wrap around and Cruise.. OMG You are so talented.. and Cruise..hahaha and the fabulous pieces on his Snake Oil stand…bawwwwwwhahaha

      • mook

        L. Ron Barnum

      • Marie Claire Wolf

        Now I finally understand Gerry Armstrong’s intense paranoia, he lifted the curtains and showed that the hero/prophet had no clothes. Thank you Tony O. for airing this important part of the story documenting Hubbard’s pathological large lies.
        Obs. I love the mini-strongman with his mouth in sucking position at the right level…

      • i-Betty

        This is so excellent. I keep finding new things to chuckle at, starting with Tom’s Wild Man of Borneo. 😛

      • Poison Ivy

        One of the best shoops ever!

      • Exterrier

        This is so terrific.Who’s the midget? What is great is that you got em all in there, and it really, really captures Ron.

        Here is an idea….
        “It’s a Barnum and Bailey world,
        just as phony as it can be.
        But it wouldn’t seem make believe,
        once you do OTlll”

        • ThetaBara

          The midget is Miss Cabbage… of course. 😉

      • InTheNameOfXenu

        Big fat old con-artist! L. Run Blubbard.

        • InTheNameOfXenu

          …and a chain-smoking bundle of contradictions as well!

    • Captain Howdy

      Try asking the Indies that comment here why they hate Gerry and why they think LRH is still fab..oh wait, they don’t show up on days like this.

      • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

        “The Aberee” http://www.aberree.com/ era Indies were much more realistic about Hubbard!

        .

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          I love The Aberee, especially the ads which include not just dianetic auditing, but all the other woo woo of that era including magic potions and pyschic readings. And darn it if every single one of the complaints the early timers had are the same ones we old timers had and the same ones these new timers have.

          • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

            Marty, today, to me, fits more in the tradition of those who in the 1950s, went the way of “The Aberee” crowd of seekers and un-slave-ish ex Scientologists of that era.

            Martin Gardner’s “Fads and Fallacies”, and Roy Wallis’ “The Road to Total Freedom” bracket, before and after, this Hubbard 1950s freer group of squirrely “The Aberee” Scientology-like practitioners..

            Us ex members who want to see what has been throught about “our” Hubbard crap, have some great old books to read!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Recently got hold of a copy of George Malko’s “Scientology: The Now Religion” after Tony mentioned this book. Interesting bits in there, especially of course about John McMaster, David Gaiman’s statements about disconnection and an excerpt from the newsletter going around about not only no more disconnection, but confessionals would no longer be written down and all kinds of promises. But all in all, my impression again was “nothing at all changes”. That is some kind of feat in itself over half a century I suppose, although staff salesmen have smartphones and apps and whatever else they need. Sales is the one exception of everything in scientology. There really are no rules.

            • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

              Love George Malko’s book!

              Part of Div 2 and Div 6, is sales tech, and they have all of Hubbard’s marketing policies.

              Hubbard’s org setups are extensively beehive with each Department totally beehived themselves. Every post has their focus, all dovetailing, and pressuring each other to “get their products”!

              Sales is big, there’s the Div 2 Department of Registration, and then there’s Div 6 Department of Public Registration (for the sucker beginner self help courses).

              Hubbard is hard sell all the way, from beginner to warmed up dupes, about his Scientology services to the followers!

            • MarionDee

              I looked at that title and thought that there must be a typo, and that the book was really called “the NEW religion.” But no–it was the NOW religion, which does sound perfectly 1970, the year it was published. Too bad Scientology hasn’t died on the vine like bad macramé placematws, orange shag rugs and pointed collars (though all of these can be done ironically. There’s only tragedy in Scientology.)

            • georget1952

              I just found George Malko’s book and ordered it, it also has some
              newspaper clippings with it that are included. Very curious as to what
              the clippings are of as it does not say. Only that they were with the
              book. I also got Kate Bornstein’s “A queer and present danger, a
              memoir”, that sounds very interesting as a personal account. I am
              accumulating quite a collection of books from former members and people
              who have researched the COS.

            • Poison Ivy

              Auntie Kate’s book is fab.

      • Kim O’Brien

        was Marty supposed to debate Gerry or am i thinking of someone else that Marty pussied out on ?

    • GlibWog

      The Key word to your words Spackle is HISTORY. Yes.. Gerry is a major part of Scillony tunes History.
      Records must be maintained and not be tampered with to satisfy those who wish to alter it to make them feel and or look better. Crimes were/ are committed because you wish you didn’t have responsibility for them doesn’t mean that they didn’t happen.

      • Once_Born

        “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it”
        George Santayana

        • Spackle Motion

          Irony of all ironies. The picture may not be clear, but that quote lived and breathed the double speak at Jonestown.

          • i-Betty

            Tragic.

          • GlibWog

            Absolutely Tragic. .. And How many would follow DM to the death? How Many?

            • sugarplumfairy

              Probably at as many as preceded him in death by believing in Scientology enough to forego real, effective medical treatment..

            • GlibWog

              To dream of a mutiny would be futile … the power of brainwashing amazes me.

            • Peter

              Many, many of us left….. long, long ago.

          • Still_On_Your_Side

            Horrifying, and yet, how quickly forgotten….

            • Studious Judious

              I have not forgotten Jonestown, or why we use the term Kool-Aid drinkers.

              THIS IS WHY

    • richelieu jr

      This is one of the biggest reasons I have no confidence in the so-called ‘Independents’… Yes, if they want to go on believing that nonsense, well there’s no law against gullibility or stupidity, but they are stil disciples to the point of wanting to rewrite history, destroy evidence and stuff their crimes (and Hubbard’s, natch) down the memory hole.

      Until they understand why that is wrong and can never be accepted, they are dangerous and should be fought tooth and nail.

      • RMycroft

        Some Independents don’t want to forgive anyone who left before they did.

        • Spackle Motion

          And they are bigger hypocrites than the worst politicians on the Hill.

        • Captain Howdy

          And they can’t forgive anyone who pointed out to them that the Emperor wasn’t wearing any clothes and that the “tech” is just a fairytale.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1x87xgJ_Dc

          • Espiando

            Remember that psycho lady over at Marty’s who “proved” that Hubtard’s version of his war record (especially the spai stuff) was real? All of the Indies there were congratulating her about her “work”. That’s pretty much when I gave up on the Indies.

            • Anonymookme

              Which psycho lady? There are several psychos commenting at Marty’s

            • Espiando

              I think her handle was Margaret, but don’t hold me to that. As you said, there are too many psychos posting at Marty’s. The sad part is that the Milestoners were among the less psycho of the bunch.

            • Captain Howdy

              Yeah, it was “Margaret”, she’s like the David irving of the Indies

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving

            • GlibWog

              OMG.. The reason I lurked at Marty’s for so long.. Human Behavior Fascinates the Fuck out of me.. You know you are not reading fiction. These are real people writing real things. Real things that they truly believe and have been proven false.

              Yet they argue the fact. Tech Works? OH OK .. but please don’t be offended if I call Bull Shit or laugh in your face.

              Hubs was an Evil, Liar, scumbag, fraudster, scumbag. Charismatic? Yeah I’ve seen him on Tapes. He was as Charismatic as a Hemorrhoid. And both are Pains in the Ass.

            • Interested

              How true, and he sounded insane. Making up whatever as he went along. I too have listened but must have so many misundrstood words because at the end I had thought ” what the hell?”

            • MarionDee

              I remember her. She was trying to balance a mountain of “proof” on a a fact as weighty as an eyelash. No, a split eyelash. (Awful metaphor, but I can comfort myself that LRH will always beat me in that department.)

            • Poison Ivy

              Links?

            • Robert Eckert

              I saw that too, but it was back last year I think. It would be really hard to search for now.

            • Espiando

              We Anons have a meme for this, PI: trying to find one particular psycho over at Marty’s is like trying to piss in an ocean of piss.

            • Missionary Kid

              Thanks for the best laugh of the morning. It was out loud, too.

      • BananaSplits8

        I’m on the fence as far as the independents are concerned. There’s too much information out there to ever, ever rehabilitate Hubbard; their potential for harm is relatively minimal. In general, I think the die-hard independents are a) stuck with their cognitive dissonance and b) spiritual insecurity (ie fear of their mortality) which simply makes them vulnerable to any bad science. If it wasn’t Hubbard, it’d be someone else’s snake-oil.

        I’m more concerned about future civilizations unearthing Hubbard’s texts on titanium half a million years from now. Jebus! how should we explain that? A big ol’ titanium plaque of our own with “Lol, pwned” on it?

        • Observer

          I hate Disqus

          • Observer

            Stupid, stupid Disqus

            • Missionary Kid

              So, what’s your real opinion of Diwquis?

              I’m surprised you don’t have a shoop for it. Years ago, a friend of mine, for a screen saver, had a picture of Bill Gates with red horns and 666 on his forehead.

        • Observer

          Third time’s a charm?

          • Exterrier

            I sense high pressure regging of Bunkerites coming on to pay for disclaimer titanium plaques placed in salt mines. OK, I’ll help pay for these. I don’t want Hubbard’s words alone to survive the blast and centuries. Maybe we lease some caves next to the sciborg caves in the desert.

        • MadMaxi

          And let’s face it, some of the indies can audit others and be paid under the table and make a nice living tweaking the amounts..errr.{donations} for services rendered in the {glorious tech}. Charging just enough for what the person is worth but still less then the cult. Last thing some of these indies want is to have their personal money maker shut down by pesky outsiders who see Hubtard for what he really was, a sociopath, con man. Note, I did say “some” not “all” in deference to those who truly believe and do not rip off others for personal gain. Still..it isn’t a religion it is modified psychotherapy….mumble, grumble…idiots.

        • ThetaBara

          This is pretty much my take. It also undermines the threat of never being able to get auditing again which makes it less scary to break free. I think the indies serve a useful purpose, in that way. I think they are highly unlikely to recruit anyone but exes.

          Escaping mental conditioning is always going to be a process and I think the indies make a softer landing possible. And hopefully they will continue to wake up. Even Marty seems to be less koolaidy as time passes.

    • Robin Scott

      Gerry Armstrong is also a personal hero of mine. I had the privilege of knowing Gerry personally in the mid-70s, mainly on the Flag RPF! In my presence, Frankie Freedman once described Gerry as a ‘straight-shooter’ – and that’s how I still think of Gerry – a man of great integrity, courage and commitment to the truth. No-one has had to deal with more criminal harassment from the Church than Gerry. In effect, Gerry kick-started the whole Independent Scientology movement back in the early 80s. We all owe him a tremendous debt. Like Jon Atack, and some of the rest of us Old Guard, he acted as soon as contrary facts came to light. He didn’t compromise with the truth. I continue to wish him all the very best – he deserves great respect from the rest of us, for sure.

    • music8r

      I’ll venture a kinder slant about the Indies that I’m sure you have all heard by now. Many who have completed the upper levels in Scientology outside or inside of the “church” honestly feel they have benefitted from their experiences with “the tech.” There are also those who knew Hubbard and felt genuine friendship for him, despite his many flaws. Annie Broeker and Steve “Sarge” Pfauth were with the Old Man until the bitter end, and dearly loved him and cared for him in the face of his lunacy.

      Without carping on anyone, I tend to think that the Indies who are able concede to Hubbard’s extreme faults must feel that he happened upon something valuable, perhaps quite accidently, while he was playing out his fantasy to enslave Mankind. As smarmy as Hubbard was, it is quite possible that he had moments of genuine care and concern in his later years.

      I did enough time in the cult to find a smidgen benefit, but from my perspective it was far more harmful than good. I also believe there are many more efficient and less destructive means to gain any of the same benefits. It would be an interesting project to objectively and honestly separate the beneficial from the harmful. I do wonder, and rather doubt, if they are separable.

      I personally find the Indies forgivable for hanging on to what vestiges of Scientology they find beneficial to them, especially those who spent their entire lives in the cult. It is life shattering to live and breathe your surrounding world only to discover it is all a sham. If all you ever knew turns out to be a sham, then perhaps you yourself are a sham. It is one thing to start out life as an infant, knowing nothing of the world around you, and depending on others and your growing senses of perception to learn about the world. It is quite another thing to be in the same learning position of an infant while an adult, and having a background that turns out to be false and corrupt.

      Just my 2-cents… Feel free to flame away now. LOL!

      • i-Betty

        Nooo, you won’t get flamed here 🙂 xxx

        • GlibWog

          I will not flame you either music.

      • Once_Born

        No flaming. Absolutely.

        My perspective is that these benefits seem to so very slight, and impossible to describe or define. People who claim that part of ‘the tech’ worked for them, typically can’t explain *how* it worked, or what it achieved – they admit themselves that ‘the good stuff’ is vague and nebulous.

        In the absence of evidence for ‘the tech’, I tend to favour the simpler hypothesis that basically good people enjoy being part of an idealistic, enthusiastic group – especially if they think that they can improve themselves and save the world. This is supported by the numbers who say they benefited only from the early stages of their involvement – those marked by love-bombing, not {ethics}.

        The solution for gregarious, idealistic individuals who leave the CofS is not the independents. It’s building a network of real friends and doing work that really does improve the world. Joining a campaigning organisation, and doing some visible good, would probably be better therapy for recovering Scientologists than the false comfort offered by the independent movement.

        Unfortunately, as I think I’ve said before, until there is an organisation that provides cult victims with help and support while they rebuild their lives, the independents are always going to attract the victims of the CofS

        • Couch_Incident

          “Unfortunately, as I think I’ve said before, until there is an organisation that provides cult victims with help and support while they rebuild their lives, the independents are always going to attract the victims of the CofS”

          Well, once upon a time, there was the Cult Awareness Network…

          • Once_Born

            Who were, it is worth saying, bankrupted, bought out, and perverted into another front group by the CofS.

        • splog

          I got wins and they were vague, nebulous and fluffy. After TRs I was better able to communicate and was more confident.

          But let me be clear about this – odds are huge I would have got the same gains if I got laid more often (me = nerd. Didn’t get laid much in my younger years)

          • Poison Ivy

            And there’s also maturity – just going forward in life and gradually becoming more aware and better at communicating.

            • splog

              That too 🙂

            • DodoTheLaser

              Amen. Thank you, PI.

            • Peter

              And how many folks do you know who’ve moved well into “maturity”, yet still behave like dolts? ROFL

          • Peter

            As I’ve noted before, I got wins/gains, too, which were hardly nebulous. But trying to explain same to anyone whose mind is already made up is an exercise in futility. I had them, they’ve lasted, I’m saner and happier for them than I was and FAR more caring as a human being. Would I have gotten them elsewhere? Pure speculation on my or anyone else’s part.

            None of this, of course, alters my opinion of the current disaster which, for me, became very clear in the early 80s when I quietly left.

            So if you have to proclaim there were no wins…or none which were of any significance…at any time since the ’50s, please at least have the honesty to realize you are only stating your opinions and beliefs. You have NO way of knowing the truth of someone else’s positive experience. Most of us hold those things close to us and share them, if at all, only with those we love and cherish the most.

            Some of my finest friends were/are Scientologists. I love them all dearly, especially my Lady whom I would *never* have met this lifetime otherwise. She is one of the wisest, talented and spiritual beings I’ve ever known. THAT win, alone, was worth – to me – all the crap which happened.

            We each choose our own path and are responsible for it. It is, to my way of thinking, the only sane way to look at life.

            • splog

              Hello Peter,

              I don’t invalidate your personal wins. You are quite correct to say that I cannot know what you specifically gained or did not gain, or why that is so.

              I thought it would be obvious I was talking only about my own experiences, and there is no unmentioned conclusion such as “therefore this is also true for everybody”. If you are responding to something like that, I assure you it is not the case.

              What I DO maintain is that “Scientology does something, Scientology does not work”. There’s an article on Arnie’s site that lays this idea out more fully but the gist of it is that Scientology claims to work unfailingly every time and achieve the EP of the step. This, it demonstrably does not do, as the EP is not consistently or predictably achieved, and in most cases it is not even achievable at all.

              What does happen is that on occasion the preclear experiences something they consider beneficial; the preclear may or may not assign this to a Scientology process. But it’s not consistent, it’s not predictable and it’s pot luck if a given pc gets such an experience.

              It’s like falling in love – we usually don’t really know why it happens, it just does. And few people will assign cause for loving in love to some process they just went through. It happened = be happy and enjoy it.

              I’m truly happy for you that you had many positive experiences and feel you are a better person for it. All of us should have more of that.

            • Peter

              Thanks for your very cogent reply. I guess I’m a bit at odds with a flat statement that “the tech doesn’t work”. It’s unequivocal, leaves no room for argument or discussion. That it is unpredictable is nothing unusual. Each individual will take it in a and do what seems right to them. I never expected to get the “same” results as someone else. Yet I saw many good friends come away with “similar” cognitions in many instances. There were others I felt who got little gain at all and felt, after talking with them, that they expected something to happen, without doing the hard work which is required to really dig into one’s own “case”. And I surely got wins at a hell of a lot faster clip than I did with any other system I’d used until then.

              I also have seen on the list the total dissing of both the comm course and the objectives. My sense has always been that the purpose of those “TRs” was quite specific and I saw many gains from it. When I taught TRs myself, I saw the results, saw the changes in the individuals. And they saw it, too, and commented on life changes. To me, the CC was not a first step to pushing the individual to another course. It stood on its own and I never let up until the student was bright and shiny and could handle *any* bullbaiting I or anyone else could throw at them.

              The ashtray objective, which has been made such fun of here on the blog, also had it’s purpose. Neither I, nor anyone I ever knew, actually expected the ashtray to rise up and fly. The drill was all about intention, the ability to get one’s questions heard and responded to, and having the very solid intention of seeing to it that the student or pc got wins. Being a wishy washy coach or auditor was to be useless to the student or pc.

              I reiterate that I saw the dissolution of the useable tech around 1981 and watched with horror the illegal theft of all the missions. I never knew if LRH even knew about it since even then Shorty had him pretty much off the lines and was manipulating the organization drastically. The action was so terribly the opposite of what LRH had built and so against the proven workability. If he were going to continue the “con”, getting rid of the missions surely didn’t make any sense at all. It still doesn’t. And this, btw, is not in any way a support of LRH’s actions and so much lying. If he stole the tech from elsewhere, it still worked in many instances. And as I have stated repeatedly, a pc/student, intent on improving and working with an auditor/coach desirous of helping, will produce positive results. I am thankful to this day that I had such auditors and coaches. And grateful for the many friends I met while in, more than a few who remain close after all these years, some still in, most out. They were and are great people in my estimation and enriched my life greatly.

      • Spackle Motion

        What part of my post attacked anything about the “benefits” of Scientology?

        I simply stated that many Indies and ex-Scientologists have a seemingly irrational negative opinion of Armstrong and it doesn’t make sense. What, exactly, has he done except fight back against outrageous attacks on his name, sanity, and life? Yes, maybe he took a few missteps and he probably has some strange opinions that some don’t agree with, but the constant derision from some makes no sense.

        I’m asking for details. Armstrong is not trying to take away your ‘wins’. Those are yours and yours alone. He unveiled the sun to disinfect a pus-gangrene boil, and for that he gets attacked.

        • Once_Born

          No part.

          Independents who attack Armstrong are still suffering from the delusion that Hubbard was a demi-god – they are wrong about that, and they are also wrong to abuse him. They do so because they don’t have an arguable case, and because they are cruel people they resort to cruelty instead.

          It was great good fortune that all that biographical material fell into the hands of a man like Armstrong who had the intellectual honesty, courage and resourcefulness to do what he did.

          You won’t get an answer from the haters, let alone details. Their wins are all delusion.

          However, not all Indies are haters. I propose that the ‘wins’ experienced by the more humane and balanced individuals are more likely due to simple human fellowship, not {the tech} at all. They are not to blame for the excesses of others.

        • music8r

          Oh dear, none AT ALL Spackle Motion! I sincerely apologize if I unwittingly implied that you had made any attacking reference at all. In replying to you I only meant to participate in the conversation you brought up, not to imply any attack from you personally and especially not from Gerry Armstrong. Were it not for Gerry, almost NONE of the filthiness of Hubbard’s life would have come to light. Gerry is a hero in my book.
          I utterly agree with you that many Indies and exes harbor unreasonably negative opinions regarding Armstrong, and I have not fully understood it either. I wasn’t even aware of the great deal of derision he has been regarded with by other Indies and exes.
          So, to your request for details, I have none, because that was not the point I was making or implying. Again, I am very sorry for any clumsiness on my part that made my post seem like I was attacking you or Gerry Armstrong.
          Please, if there is something more to my original response that I have not accounted for, by all means reply. I will also go back and see what else I may have written that could be interpreted as antagonistic to you or Gerry.

      • splog

        “It would be an interesting project to objectively and honestly separate
        the beneficial from the harmful. I do wonder, and rather doubt, if they
        are separable.”

        This has been tried (informally) several times in the last few years on various Indie sites. Guess what comes out of it each time? Nothing much… 🙂

        The threads are all up there for anyone who can be arsed to read them today (and I can’t be) so I’ll just tell you what I concluded. The most common answer is “I did a comm course and I feel great” – you actually can’t really get a cause-effect relationship out of that, so the answer is worthless. If you try to find any good in Scientology all you are going to come up with is

        Scientology does something.
        Scientology does not work.

      • coonellie

        No flames, but just a comment on this sentence, “As smarmy as Hubbard was, it is quite possible that he had moments of genuine care and concern in his later years.”

        I am not a mental health professional, but experience shows that charming sociopaths are incapable of any genuine emotion. If those around him thought they were receiving care and concern it’s because it benefitted Hubbard.

        • music8r

          Indeed, that is true. And given the evidence it is difficult for a reasonably objective person to brand Hubbard as a sociopath. Having recently read Stout’s The Sociopath Next Door I came away feeling I was better able to recognize such a personality, and Hubbard seems to fit quite well. However, even sociopaths make mistakes, and like everyone other human, the are not always perfectly consistent.

          The one thing that Stout did not address in her book, and that I have not yet learned, is the possibility of a sociopath developing a sense of conscience. I suspect the subject is not quite as black and white as we might hope. Are there personalities who are 99% sociopathic? Jon Ronson’s book, The Sociopath Test takes an interesting look at people who might or might not be 100% sociopathic, as well as a sad look at the hope of reforming those who are.

          • music8r

            OOPS! Please insert the word NOT after “person” in the second sentence.

            Please excuse the interruption. You may now return to your regularly scheduled reading.

            • Sandy

              You can edit your comments here …

            • Poison Ivy

              Music8r, you can edit your posts!

            • music8r

              Oh duh. Thanks! 🙂

          • coonellie

            For a really scary read try Hare’s book, “Without Conscience.”

            I grew up with a parent who is a sociopath (I’ve written about it a bit here before…I think you can click on my icon and see what I’ve posted, nothing significant, just a bit of background) and have a rather unique perspective, albeit prejudiced.

            Not having a conscience does not mean they don’t know when they’re doing something wrong. If that were the case, they wouldn’t need to hide their tracks, create smoke screens and assign blame to others. They just don’t care…very big difference.

            I’ve read quite a bit of literature, both popular and medical, and I’ve not seen any successful, long-term treatment studies wherein a sociopath has developed any sort of conscience. As a matter of fact, Dr. Hare learned that he only trained sociopaths to better emulate a conscience with such treatment.

          • Once_Born

            Is there a possibility of a sociopath developing a conscience?. No. Sociopathy seems to be wired in.

            Having said that, there is new research which strongly suggests that sociopaths are not so much totally incapable of empathy (although that capacity is severely reduced) as able to switch it on and off at will.

            Hubbard ‘turned on the charm’ to get what he wanted. This possibly explains how he had that charm in the first place, and why he only ever to ruthlessly exploit it.

            http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/content/136/8/2550

        • Poison Ivy

          “If those around him thought they were receiving care and concern it’s because it benefitted Hubbard.”

          True that. Remember, the most successful sociopath is able to fly totally under the radar, even of reasonably savvy people. He/She has a magnetic charm that goes beyond superficial – it’s almost as if the sociopath genuinely likes and cares for the people He/She is about to screw over/harm. And I think the sociopath may indeed “care” for others – in the way that we care for and fatten up livestock before we slaughter it.

          There is a genuine sociopath on the outskirts of my life right now. We’re talking one of those real criminal minds that just can’t help themselves – if he/she would make $100 by being honest and $101 by being elaborately dishonest, he/she would take the latter every time. Like the scorpion said to the frog, “It’s my nature.” Now, I’m someone with a really good spidey sense about people and this sociopath fooled me completely for several weeks, until his/her increasingly bold behind the scenes behavior revealed his/her true nature. Several others I know were also completely fooled by this person and others are still being fooled – and being led into a sinkhole with smiles on their faces. Despite the fact that now I can see what’s happening behind the curtain, the charm and likeability of this person still amazes me.

          Hubbard looks like Mr. Goof the Floof to us from history’s perspective, but to many, it’s clear he was that eternally charming guy who you’d follow into the sinkhole with a stupid grin on your face.

          • coonellie

            PI, I am SO sorry that you have such a person in your life, even on the outskirts! I’m grateful that you’ve had the veil removed so quickly. My only advice to you, although it’s not solicited, is to use more spidey tech and become invisible… in the emotional sense. Basically, don’t feed it at all – your emotions must be almost computer-like. Without that emotional food, the sociopath withers on the vine and must seek sustenance elsewhere.

            I’m sorry for your suffering. Truly.

      • Poison Ivy

        “It is life shattering to live and breathe your surrounding world only to discover it is all a sham. If all you ever knew turns out to be a sham, then perhaps you yourself are a sham.”

        Exactly. Cognitive-dissonance theory explains this. We are ALL hardwired to believe that we’re always right and always good people. It takes maturity of thinking to admit otherwise. And the kind of courage that years of the hive mentality of a cult does its best to kill off.

        This is why I feel sympathy for the Indies. MOST of them are going through some heavy internal shit, having to rebuild their worldview after the ultimate betrayal. And most of them will eventually come out the other side. Alas, but some of them will run like lemmings off a cliff trying desperately to defend the lie.

    • J. Swift

      Jon Atack speculates that, “If the cult had left Gerry alone, it is very possible that the debacle of the early 1980s, during which time about half of the membership left — would not have happened.”

      The fact is that the 1982 “Mission Holder Massacre” triggered an event called the “Great Schism” by old timers. The Cult’s “nuclear attack” on extremely popular and successful mission holders such Bent Corydon and Alan Walter initiated the staggering loss of membership.

      The late great Alan Walter wrote:

      “t was the 28th January 1982 that the Great Schism occurred the CMO headed by DM reneged on all agreements. Removed and declared Bill Franks, declared both Franks and myself SP…..that day approximately 7500 long term staff and students simultaneously walked out of the CofS
      world-wide…….over the next 12 months a further 35,000 people left the CofS.”

      refs:
      1. http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?603-Mission-Network-Pre-1982 — read entire thread
      2. Cited at http://paulsrabbit.com/The-ESMB-Posts.pdf

      The “Great Schism” occured on January 28, 1982.

      Gerry was declared on February 18, 1982. Gerry Armstrong was still a Church member during the Great Schism.

      Gerry Armstrong had nothing to do with the Great Schism and the resultant staggering loss of membership in the early 1980’s. The real credit belongs to the Mission Holders who paid dearly in blood and money on January 28, 1982.

      Going later on the chain, Gerry would help certain mission holders in their lawsuits against the Church but Armstrong cannot claim any retroactive credit for the Mission Holder Massacre nor should Atack assign him credit for such.

      • KNMF

        Without Gerry, the cult of $cientology and specifically L. Ron Hubbard’s lies and agenda, would be much more of a menace to the general public, than it is. Thankfully we can all understand better Hubbard’s ties to the occult. We know Hubbard lied all the time, and was keen on manipulating his fellow man. We know his personal spirituality was based in the occult and was essentially selfish in nature.

        I guess the mission holder massacre is a big deal to some scientologists.
        The rest of the world should thank Armstrong for getting the evidence out for all to see.

        • J. Swift

          While Gerry Armstrong’s actual contributions have never in dispute, the Mission Holder Massacre was an incredibly savage and bankrupting attack that resulted in decades of Fair Game upon its victims. The Mission Holder Massacre was a big deal and it is very offensive for you to minimize it in order to shift the attention solely onto Gerry Armstrong.

          Marty Rathbun makes it quite clear in his new book “Memoirs of a Scientology Warrior” that Gerry had created profound legal and PR problems for the Church by exposing the lies in the biography of L. Ron Hubbard. These lies were being perpetuated by the Church and Gerry worked to expose them. As a result, he was attacked and Fair Gamed and lawsuits were filed.

          On December 6, 1986 Gerry Armstrong accepted $800,000 to settle all of his outstanding legal affairs with the Church. The settlement included a legally binding Non-Disclosure Agreement wherein Gerry contractually agreed to not talk about the Church of Scientology or the time he spent in the Church. The agreement is posted at Gerry’s own website: http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/legal/a1/mutual-release-1986.html

          Gerry signed the legal settlement on camera. This video shows Gerry, his attorney Michael Flynn, and Cult attorney Lawrence Heller. Again, the date is December 6, 1986:

          http://youtu.be/3tctpyYKtzA

          • J. Swift

            After Gerry Armstrong accepted $800,000 in exchange for signing a legally binding Non-Disclosure Agreement, he breached the contract countless times and the Church sued him.

            This is the point at which Gerry starts fudging things in his own biography. Gerry has always, correctly, demanded that the Church clean up its lies about Hubbard and yet wants the critics to turn a blind eye to his the glaring inaccuracies in his own biography. That is a double standard.

            Here is Part 1 of the Armstrong legal narrative — and please correct me if I am wrong in any detail.

            1. A California court found that Gerry repeatedly violated his legally binding $800,000 Non-Disclosure Agreement with the Cult.

            1A. The Court ordered Gerry to comply with the Non-Disclosure Agreement he had signed.

            2. Gerry repeatedly defied the Court’s order to comply with the Non-Disclosure Agreement.

            3. After defying a court order, the Court found Gerry in contempt and sentenced him to serve time in jail. IIRC, it was 26 days.

            4, Gerry mythologized his jail sentence for Contempt into a maneuver by the Church of Scientology whereby it manipulated the justice system so it could put Gerry in jail and have him murdered. Yet this begs the question: If the Cult put out hits on people, why would it need Gerry in a jail cell? That would only allow the authorities to link a jailed hit man to the Cult. Moreover, if the Cult put out hits on people, I would not be writing this, you would not be reading it, and this blog would not exist.

            4A. In December, 2011 Gerry repeated his claim that the Cult could assassinate him at any time to the Russian media. This Pravda article is on Gerry’s own website: http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/archives/5020

            5. Rather than serving out a ~26 day jail sentence, Gerry fled to Canada. Gerry’s unlawful flight legally made him a fugitive.

            6. The CA Court issued a bench warrant for Gerry’s arrest after he fled.

            7. Gerry had a right to appeal his jail sentence. However, he forfeited that right when he fled. Under the Fugitive Disentitlement Doctrine, fugitives may not file lawsuits: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/2466

            8. Gerry morphed his legal case and fugitive status into a Human Rights cause. He has passionately argued, to no avail, that a person cannot sign away their right of Free Speech. However, the courts have consistently upheld the legality of Non-Disclosure Agreement.

            9. The California Supreme Court refused to hear Gerry’s case and so it dead-ended.

            • KNMF

              Loaded for bear, swift. You should go grab the rights to whoisgerryarmstrong.com.
              I’m glad Gerry’s punishment was more self determined, and he’s paying it. He certainly shouldn’t be locked up in jail. He isn’t a dangerous criminal. He’s just threatens with highly relevant truth, those who are promoting the sociopath Hubbard. Gerry deserved the money he received because he was unjustly attacked.

              Why don’t you examine the double standards and irony that is all around you? Using irrelevant yadayada to dead agent Armstrong is pretty obvious to anyone who understands Hubbard’s tactics and strategy. A lot of folks here, get it.

            • Robert Eckert

              If he always intended to keep speaking out against Scientology, he should not have signed an agreement that he would stop doing so.

            • John P.

              Who’s dead agenting who? Your ID has zero history in this forum until today, which is a very interesting data point to note, since OSA-allied trolls often adopt new IDs to comment here and try to derail the discussion.

              J. Swift has a multi-year history of commentary about the cult in this forum and others, and is usually quite meticulous about distinguishing fact and opinion. His argument clarifying the role of Gerry Armstrong is clear and easy to follow, and each point should be able to be documented from available information, in support of his conclusion.

              Swift has been crystal clear about distinguishing Armstrong’s contributions from areas where his story has grown to encompass other details. I must admit that I, too, have been troubled by details in Armstrong’s story, including the fact that he’s exiled himself from the US for decades to beat the chance at a minor jail term.

              Until you establish your bona-fides in this forum over a reasonable period of time by offering insightful commentary on a breadth of issues, roaring out of nowhere to attack J. Swift over his argument about Gerry is not likely to be treated credibly by the readers here.

            • KNMF

              John, the social currency that accompanies my ID has no bearing on the truth about Hubbard or what I have posted, no matter how it rankles you. To argue otherwise would be a fallacy of logic, and I’m sure you’re too, smart to run with it. I’m certainly not dead agent-ing anybody. I’m not going around talking stuff about Swift. I’ve enjoyed much of what he’s written. I was disappointed when I realized his alliances, sure.

              THE attack (swift’s) was on Gerry, and I suppose it was inevitable. My responses may not have been tactful, but they were made in an effort to clear away the irrelevant smoke. I don’t feel I came out of the gate “roaring.” I feel like Swift upped the ante, and since I’m standing on the truth that Ron was a sociopath and that Gerry made it public, I’m comfortable with what I’ve written here.

            • Robert Eckert

              Swift is not denying either that Ron was a sociopath or that Gerry made it public. There is more to the story, however. Many have raised questions about how it is that Gerry is in such a deep legal hole, and why it is that some people both despise CoS and still have harsh feelings against Gerry also, and Swift has helped to clarify these things.

            • KNMF

              “There is more to the story.”

              Or, that is another story, and the personal butthurt and nitpicking shouldn’t diminish or dim the light shown on Hubbard’s evil intentions toward mankind. Peace.

            • Still_On_Your_Side

              I agree, and there are two sides here. An NDA is not enforceable if its purpose is against public policy, or to obstruct the law, or if one side entered with “unclean” hands. A court usually makes that decision, not one of the parties unilaterally, but I can understand why Gerry thinks its unenforceable. Also, I have a hard time believing that Miscavige honored his side of the NDA, I have read nothing honorable about Miscavige, anywhere. I can easily believe that the harassment and fair gaming of Gerry went on after the NDA was signed. Miscavige spent millions of dollars monitoring Broeker and he never opened his mouth publicly against Miscavige after he left the church. Gerry knew things, and had documents, that Miscavige was frightened of, I can believe that he “monitored” Gerry closely, and breached the NDA before the ink was dry.

              It is not beyond reason to believe that Miscavige planned on sending Gerry to jail or worse all along. Historically, he has turned breach of contract actions and copyright infringement actions into police attacks on his enemies. When he first staged his coup he announced people would be going to jail for copyright and trademark infringement. Normal adults in business don’t use the words “jail” and ” breach” or “infringement” in the same sentence. Miscavige, however, was gaming the system and had discovered that in extreme situations people do go to jail if, for example, they cloned a warehouse of designer shoes or if they had stolen millions of dollars by signing a contract to deliver computers and then skipped town. People don’t go to jail for breaching an NDA, that’s not what the police are for. Judges get angry if they are riled up into believing that someone is thumbing their nose at the court, and I am sure Miscavige made sure the judge believed that is what Gerry was doing. Miscavige’s gaming of the justice system, his ability to use the police to throw his enemies in jail, is over. The Internet, the Underground Bunker, the mass media, have put Miscavige’s actions under a microscope, with a flood light trained on it. I hope that when Gerry is ready, he comes back to the states, preferably at the invitation of law enforcement or Congress, to testify against Miscavige. Before he does, I am sure that one or more lawyer friends of his will make sure that all the expired warrants are expunged from the system so he doesn’t have to worry about them.

            • John P.

              I am not excessively rankled by your argument. My point, and the reason I am concurring with J. Swift, is that one does not need to polish the story of Gerry Armstrong into a hagiography in order for the world to respect him.

              In particular, he should not be given the credit for engendering the big drop in membership in the early 1980s if it resulted from the Mission Holder Massacre, as seems reasonable to believe. The destruction of Hubbard’s personal credibility from Gerry’s own work and from the work of others who built on the source documents he revealed has played a significant part in choking off the flow of new members into the cult. That has long-term potential to damage the cult far more than the one-time flush of members that occurred three decades ago. Hubbard’s “Admissions” are like a penicillin-resistant strain of gonorrhea, a “gift that keeps on giving.” Anyone approached for a free personality test today will whip out their smart phone and Google “Scientology” and will find so much information ridiculing the cult that they would never consider signing up. The shift in the perception of the cult from something to fear to the object of ridicule is a direct consequence of Armstrong’s contributions.

              Additionally, it should be entirely appropriate to evaluate Armstrong’s more recent statements in light of his willingness to have fled the US for decades at considerable cost to avoid a relatively light jail sentence. The proffered explanations simply don’t make sense. At the very least, Armstrong should have been able to figure out that fleeing to Canada would have consequences and to have anticipated those consequences. I find the decision path Gerry took to be troubling; I would probably do something different in his position.

              That does not mean that I either reject anything Gerry says lately out of hand, and it certainly does not mean that I devalue his contributions. It just means that when Gerry makes an assertion that is not consistent with the body of reality regarding the cult that my own research has shown, I will cross-check a controversial assertion before believing it. I do this all the time in my work at Global Capitalism HQ — I expect CEOs to either lie to me or to come very close to the line between “marketing” and outright lying in many of the things they say to me about their companies. I retain a willingness to believe anything, but apply judgment and experience to figure out how much cross-checking I need to do before I believe a particular statement. A well-managed sense of skepticism is good; cynicism is as blinding as gullibility.

              It’s important to understand that truth is about statements and actions, not about people. People are complicated, and virtually everyone does stuff inconsistent with their main accomplishments and personae. Isaac Newton was one of the most brilliant scientific minds in history, yet also practiced alchemy and had a number of odd and/or repellent beliefs about other stuff. One does not trash Newton, and one certainly does not “disbelieve” in calculus or physics because of those aspects of his life which ran counter to the brilliance he showed in his scientific work. Doing so is the essence of “dead agenting.” I don’t believe J. Swift’s comments to be an attempt to diminish the value of what Gerry did back in the day.

            • KNMF

              As far as I know, it was the romantic, “dumb-hippy” in the soul of Armstrong that propelled him to Canada. And it’s his vainglory that compels him to embellish whatever he’s embellished and/or be defensive. That is all beside the essential truth about Hubbard and his adherents.

              I’m not sure if you’re comparing Hubbard to Newton, or Swift to Newton, or who. The main thing is that Newton did not set out to enslave mankind. It wasn’t his core. That it was Hubbard’s core, all his work that was advertised to “help people,” is compromised. He still gets credit for being a mediocre science fiction writer. And I believe that Hubbard industrialized hypnosis, but I don’t approve.

              Also beside the point are my thuggish posts and your eloquence, and your domination in the free market. Hopefully my kid at business school can internship with you one day.

            • Robert Eckert

              The comparison obviously was of Armstrong to Newton. Nobody denies the greatness of the accomplishment, but that does not require denying the oddities.

            • KNMF

              You’ll forgive my confusion, Bob, as that is the exact argument indies make about L. Ron Hubbard. That he was flawed, but made worthwhile contributions.
              From a practical sense, Gerry’s “oddities” have made him a more effective opponent vs scientology. So good. In this case “the accomplishment” is gigantic and as John pointed out, it “keeps on giving.” The oddities are irrelevant to everybody outside of our own infighting, which includes almost everybody on earth and all those yet to be born. The oddities are really beside the point until someone tries to use the irrelevant oddities to devalue the accomplishment.

            • Robert Eckert

              What we are trying to do here is understand the truth of what happened. You are acting like one of the kinds of people we encounter on any Israel/Palestine debate thread, who is interested only in putting forward what is useful propaganda for the chosen side.

            • KNMF

              You are accusing me of doing exactly what Swift is doing, with his litany of gerry armstrong crimes.

              I am happy for all the facts to be presented. ideally they are presented in proportion to their relevance and importance to the matter at hand. The reason why we are here; the damage and suffering that surrounds scientology.
              When Gerry found out the truth, he renounced Hubbard and left the cult. His evidence has not been helpful for those who cling to Hubbard or rely on Hubbard-tech for their own personal reasons. The gerry-critic or gerry-expert may have invested his time and research into scrutinizing Gerry Armstrong. And given that personal investment, he may be dismayed when some folks don’t respond positively to the facts he’s uncovered.
              But all that research didn’t concern the matter at hand, the reason why we’re here, the damage and suffering that surrounds scientology. And Armstrong isn’t responsible for any of it. Far from it, in fact.

              No propaganda…

            • Once_Born

              Hubbard wasn’t a mediocre science fiction writer. He was a mediocre pulp writer who did some SF. His short stories were the best of him, and those would have been totally forgotten years ago if was not for the CofS promoting them. As for his books – *please* don’t call “Battlefield Earth” science fiction.

            • Once_Born

              Isn’t {dead agenting} such daft idea, discredited ever since the Greeks came up with the term ‘argumentum ad hominem’?. If someone claims the sky is blue is either is or it isn’t. If it is, you can’t make the sky green by pointing that out the claimant kicks his dog. His personal life has nothing to do with the colour of the sky.

              I think the fact that the CofS stick with the ‘smear’ sites and ‘noisy investigation’ and all the other nonsense is for internal consumption. They no longer care what the world thinks – they are playing to their shrinking membership.

              Hubbard was a nasty piece of work. We know just how nasty thanks to Mr Armstrong. This fact should not affect our judgement of the things Hubbard wrote, which should be judged on their merits.

              Some independents seem to think that Scientology has merit. It doesn’t. I believe that is incoherent nonsense, purpose-made to abuse and manipulate people – but I am happy to discuss this with anyone who thinks differently.

              The problem here is the people who still believe that, by defending Hubbard, they defend his work – *exactly* the same mistake the CofS makes.

            • J. Swift

              KNMF, your ad hom aside, I have never said that Gerry was a dangerous criminal. What the record itself show is that Gerry legally painted himself into a corner by signing an $800,000 contract, breaching it repeatedly, and then making himself a fugitive.

              As for pain and suffering, Gerry is not the only one who has suffered or paid Hell for having been in the Cult. How many people has Fair Game harmed? One is too many.

              Most people never took a penny for their silence and so they are free to speak out. Gerry signed the contract and created enormous problems for himself by violating it.

              ******
              The pith of the matter is this: Gerry has repeatedly attacked OG members such as myself when we dared to disagree with him. When I supported Marty and Mike and the Indies early on, Gerry and his supporters attacked me as a Nazi.

              I was an ardent Gerry supporter and fan for years, but his repeated attacks on me made me take a closer look at the documents he posted on his website.

              My scrutiny forced Gerry and Caroline to take down their flawed SPDL (Suppressive Person Defense League).

              Gerry has taken down the video of him signing the contract with the Cult.

              Most intriguingly, Gerry has removed the Cult surveillance tapes made of him plotting with Danny Sherman and others to overthrow the Church of Scientology. Why?

            • KNMF

              Your battles in the bowels of the $cientology wars between the factions ,are I’m sure, legendary. But your efforts to discredit Gerry after what he has done right for the body politic, because he called you personally, a nazi, strike me as petty. Hubbard spoke of Homo Novus, he utilized gestapo tactics and militarized all the cult’s procedure. Maybe if you didn’t prop up Hubbard’s tech and those who do, you wouldn’t have been called that name. There is a hell of a lot of name-calling in scientology. You could have thicker skin. But whether that happened or not, Armstrong at his peril exposed the truth, before the cult made the mistake of paying him off to keep quiet. Hubbardites probably wish that somebody else had found the damning evidence. Too bad. It so happens that the evidence fell into the hands of the worst possible guy (from the cult’s POV).

            • J. Swift

              KNMF, again you want a double standard for Gerry where he can tell lies with impunity and engage in malicious personal attacks while demanding that the world venerate him as a hero. Out here in the wog internet we call that being FOS.

              Gerry has rock star status on the Admissions, etc.but he does not get a free pass on shabby personal conduct.

            • KNMF

              You’re a rock star, Swift, in this strange little society of people who care about the various factions of the cult and all the inherent back-biting and hurt that comes with Hubbard. Your defenders have swung into action.

              Everybody, including yourself, has told a lie. Not everybody has lied and tricked people to the degree of L. Ron Hubbard. You accuse me of wanting a double standard. I accuse you of making me laugh, by comparing the lies of Armstrong (and me and you) to the lies of Hubbard. A puppy can chew on my finger. A shark will kill me and eat me. In this case the puppy barked and alerted me to the killer shark. I’ll let the puppy chew on my finger all day long. And when you show up to complain that the puppy has fleas, I say “yeah, but…”

            • Vistaril

              Gerry Armstrong has never demanded that the world venerate him as a hero. That is a lie. The fact that he is treated with respect and is, in some circles, consider a hero is what causes the butthurt which generates your venom. What causes the strident push-back against your statements is that they sometimes contain lies and highlight your own double standard in that the same level of scrutiny is not apparent in your comments regarding Indie leaders. In fact, their shabby personal conduct and on-going lying gets a free pass, but don’t think for a moment it is going on unnoticed.

            • J. Swift

              KNMF, there is no “body politic”, no IAS out here, so that argument does not cut it. Additionally, I am not defending Hubbard or the Tech so that DA on me does not cut it either.

              And it’s just not me. Gerry does not understand why so many OG dislike him and why media no longer wants anything to do with him.

              Gerry made himself persona non grata with the many OG and the media.

              As he does not get it, I will not bother telling him. In any case, Gerry refuses to listen and instead chooses to attack.

            • grundoon

              I seem to recall that Armstrong was betrayed by his lawyer Michael Flynn who was fair-gamed by the Chruch and turned against him, forcing the unconscionable settlement.

            • J. Swift

              “I seem to recall” does not constitute good internet lawyering.

            • Robert Eckert

              If you want to dispute grundoon’s explanation you need to give your alternative account of why Gerry signed the damned thing.

            • Spackle Motion

              What’s your bar number? I’d say you aren’t one to be making that call.

            • J. Swift

              The “internet lawyering” line was a joke. I will add (joke) in all future posts to avoid offending you (joke).

            • Robert Eckert

              Our convention here is curly {} sometimes called {vagina brackets} to enclose words or sentences intended in jest.

            • grundoon

              Yeah, I was in a hurry and didn’t have time to look up the data. Hopefully the internet lawyering gets a little better with what I posted below: http://tonyortega.org/2013/08/03/scientologys-crumbling-can-gerry-armstrong-begin-to-think-of-crossing-the-border/#comment-987834171

            • Spackle Motion

              Mr. Swift, if Gerry Armstrong wants to say that he’s Santa Claus then he can say he’s Santa Claus. Armstrong is not defrauding people of billions and operating dangerous quackery on victims. He’s brought irrefutable evidence to light on a dangerous organization where people blindly follow the twisted words of a known con man and the evidence is as we say in the legal world, res ipsa loquitur.

              What you’ve outlined here is mostly the consequences of Fair Game attacks against Armstrong. But not for those fair game attacks against Armstrong, started by the cult, your points above would not have happened. If this is what you’re using to question his integrity then you need a new angle.

            • Vistaril

              The wiseoldgoat site continues the lie that Gerry Armstrong stole the materials which were to be used for the biography of L Ron Hubbard. That is another lie.

              So far as the “Missions Massacre”, L Ron Hubbard personally ordered that the missions be looted. He did so to protect himself from on-going personal exposure to legal liability for fraud after the Julie Christofferson Titchbourne trial proved that Scientology had been based on fraud since the day L Ron Hubbard said he used Dianetics to cure war injuries. Given that the bulk of the evidence which proved L Ron Hubbard was a fraud came from Gerry Armstrong, its reasonable to assume that Gerry was largely responsible for precipitating the closure of the missions and, thus, freeing thousands from the Scientology mindfuck and tens of thousands more from even going near it subsequently.

              Part of what drives the Indies to continue Scientology’s dead agenting of people like Gerry Armstrong is that Gerry continues to speak truth. He spoke out at the Dublin Conference where he pointed out that the cult has, in effect, outsourced much of the DA work when it comes to Scientology survivors like himself, David Mayo, Jon Atack, Robin Scott, and others. Most recently Gerry has spoken truth about baseless assertions and the attempted rewriting of history in Marty Rathbun’s book . . .

              http://youtu.be/9RPPjOSFKok

            • grundoon

              Here’s Armstrong’s account of the settlement, from his sworn testimony of 11-17-1991.

              10. On December 5, 1986 I was flown to Los Angeles, as were several other of Mr. Flynn’s clients with claims against the organization to participate in a “global settlement.” After my arrival in LA I was shown a copy of a document entitled ” Mutual Release of All Claims and Settlement Agreement,” hereinafter referred to as “the settlement agreement,” and some other documents, which I was expected to sign.

              11. The settlement agreement has now become a public document, and it and its effects are issues in various lawsuits now pending.

              12. Upon reading the settlement agreement draft I was shocked and heartsick. I told Mr. Flynn that the condition of “strict confidentiality and silence with respect to [my] experiences with the [organization]” (settlement agreement, para. 7D), since it involved over seventeen years of my life, was impossible. I told him that the “liquidated damages” clause (para. 7D) was outrageous; that pursuant to the settlement agreement I would have to pay $50,000.00 if I told a doctor or psychologist about my experiences from those years, or if I put on a resume what positions I had held during my organization years. I told Mr. Flynn that the requirements of non-amenability to service of process (para. 7H) and non-cooperation with persons or organizations adverse to the organization (paras. 7G, 10) were obstructive of justice. I told him that I felt that agreeing to leave the organization’s appeal of the decision in Armstrong and not respond to any subsequent appeals (para. 4B) was unfair to the courts and all the people who had been helped by the decision. I told Mr. Flynn that an affidavit the organization was demanding that I sign along with the settlement agreement was false. That document, which I do not have, stated, inter alia, that my disagreements with the organization had been with prior management, and not with the then-current leadership. In fact there had been no management change and I had the same disagreements with the organization’s “fair game” policies and actions which had continued without change up to the time of the settlement. I told him that I was being asked to betray everything and everyone I had fought for against an organization which was based upon injustice.

              13. In answer to my objections to the settlement agreement, Mr. Flynn said that the silence and liquidated damages clauses, and anything which called for obstruction of justice were not worth the paper they were printed on. He said the same thing a number of times and a number of ways; e.g., that I could not contract away my Constitutional rights; that the conditions were unenforceable. He said that he had advised the organization attorneys that those conditions in the settlement agreement were not worth the paper they were printed on, but that the organization, nevertheless, insisted on their inclusion in the settlement agreement and would not agree to any changes. He pointed out the clauses concerning my release of all claims against the organization to date and its release of all claims against me to date (paras. 1,4,5,6,8) and said that they were the essential elements of the settlement and were what the organization was paying for.

              14. Mr. Flynn also said that everyone was sick of the litigation and wanted to get on with their lives. He said that he was sick of the litigation, the threats to him and his family and wanted out. He said that as a part of the settlement he and all co-counsels had agreed to not become involved in organization- related litigation in the future. He expressed a deep concern that the courts in this country cannot deal with the organization and its lawyers and their contemptuous abuse of the justice system. He said that if I didn’t sign the documents all I had to look forward to was more years of harassment and misery. One of Mr. Flynn’s other clients, Edward Walters, who was in the room with us during this discussion, yelled at me, accusing me of killing the settlement for everyone, and that everyone else had signed or would sign, and everyone else wanted the settlement. Mr. Flynn said that the organization would only settle with everyone together; otherwise there would be no settlement. He did agree to ask the organization to include a clause in my settlement agreement allowing me to keep my creative works relating to L. Ron Hubbard or the organization (para. 7L).

              15. Mr. Flynn said that a major reason for the settlement’s “global” form was to give the organization the opportunity to change its combative attitude and behavior by removing the threat he and his clients represented to it. He argued that the organization’s willingness to pay us substantial sums of money, after its agents and attorneys had sworn for years to pay us ” not one thin dime” was evidence of a philosophic shift within the organization. I argued that the settlement agreement evidenced the unchanged philosophy of fair game, and that if the organization did not use the opportunity to transform its antisocial nature and actions toward its members, critics and society I would, a few years hence, because of my knowledge of organization fraud and fair game, be again embroiled in its litigation and targeted for extralegal attacks.

              16. Regarding the affidavit the organization required that I sign, Mr. Flynn said that the “disagreement with prior management” could be rationalized as being a disagreement with L. Ron Hubbard, and since Mr. Hubbard had died in January 1986 it could be said that I no longer had that disagreement. Mr. Flynn said that the organization’s attorneys had promised that the affidavit, which all the settling litigants were signing, would only be used by the organization if I began attacking it after the settlement, and since I had no intention of attacking the organization the affidavit would never see the light of day.

              17. During my meeting with Mr. Flynn in Los Angeles I found myself facing a dilemma which I reasoned through in this way. If I refused to sign the settlement agreement and affidavit all the other settling litigants, many of whom had been flown to Los Angeles in anticipation of a settlement, would be extremely disappointed and would continue to be subjected to organization harassment for an unknown period of time. I had been positioned in the settlement drama as a deal-breaker and would undoubtedly lose the support of some if not all of these litigants, several of whom were key witnesses in my case against the organization. Although I was certain that Mr. Flynn and my other lawyers would not refuse to represent me if I did not sign the documents I also knew that they all would view me as a deal-breaker and they would be as disappointed as the other litigants in not ending the litigation they desperately wanted out of. The prospect of continuing the litigation with unhappy and unwilling attorneys on my side, even though my cross-complaint was set for trial within three months, was distressing. On the other hand, if I signed the documents, all my co-litigants, some of whom I knew to be in financial trouble, would be happy, the stress they felt would be reduced and they could get on with their lives. Mr. Flynn and the other lawyers would be happy and the threat to them and their families would be removed. The organization would have the opportunity they said they desired to clean up their act and start anew. I would have the opportunity to get on with the next phase of my life and the financial wherewithal to do so. I was also not unhappy to at that time not have to testify in all the litigation nor to respond to the media’s frequent questions. If the organization continued its fair game practices toward me I knew that I would be left to defend myself and I accepted that fact. So, armed with Mr. Flynn’s advice that the conditions I found so offensive in the settlement agreement were not worth the paper they were printed on, and the knowledge that the organization’s attorneys were also aware of that legal opinion, I put on a happy face and the following day went through the charade of a videotaped signing.

          • KNMF

            You are bringing up the mission holder massacre in the comment section of an article where it is not mentioned. You are replying to somebody who didn’t mention it. And LOL you accuse me of “shifting attention soley onto G Armstrong” Why don’t you maximize the importance of the event on another day? You could make a video.

            Your passive-aggressive swipes at Armstrong are tired. The Cult of $cientology could have saved themselves 800k if they had taken Gerry’s advice and had embraced Honesty over their lies. He certainly gave the cult the chance to do the right thing. And all the Hubbardites have the same chance to do the right thing, every day.

            • J. Swift

              Re: the Mission Holder Massacre, I was responding to you saying:

              “I guess the mission holder massacre is a big deal to some scientologists.
              The rest of the world should thank Armstrong for getting the evidence out for all to see.”

              Gerry did get the evidence out for all to see and no disputes that fact. The Cult could have saved itself enormous damage if it had listened to Gerry and cleaned up LRH’s biography. No one disagrees on this.

              Your attack on my work to clean up the inaccuracies and lies in Gerry’s version of events shows that you do not care to hear the facts.

            • KNMF

              Your work as a Hubbard/Indie apologist is to portray Armstrong as untrustworthy.
              It is a smokescreen and diversion from what is important. You can continue to successfully sway the Hubbard-faithful on Rathbun’s blog with little opposition.

              I’m very interested in the facts that matter. Did Hubbard have an agenda to enslave people? yes. Did Armstrong expose that? yes Did Armstrong “fudge” on something in his own biography? sure if you say so. Does it matter? No. Was Hubbard still a greedy liar who caused grief, death, misery and wasted lives? yes. Is Hubbard still being lauded and promoted as friend to mankind. yes.

              Excuse me if I care a lot less for your “facts,” as they are of little importance to anyone but Hubbard apologists.

      • Still_On_Your_Side

        Almost twice as many people quit in 1982 than belong in the entire church today, incredible! I suppose at the time DM said, good riddance, and called them unnecessary? That is sort of like shooting all the farmers during a famine because there is not enough food to go around….

      • Spackle Motion

        With all due respect, Mr. Swift, these threads don’t answer my question and many of us don’t have the time to wade through pages and pages of old threads.

        Would you please give me the reasons, in a nutshell? Are you telling me that Armstrong made erroneous claims to breaking up the Mission scheme back in the early 80s?

        From a macro level, most readers aren’t going to understand the squabbles between cult members that are decades old. From where I sit, Armstrong got a lot of heat and probably reacted poorly at times but prevailed in telling the truth about Hubbard. I’m not seeing how a 30 year old situation when many/all of you were under a cult delusion (i.e. your own judgment can also be suspect) is germane to my statement.

        Armstrong has himself said that he signed the 800K agreement on bad advice and understanding the fair game attacks on his lawyer, I can understand how that happened. Why this keeps getting thrown in his face is beyond me. Debbie Cook also took a payout and I don’t see such vicious attacks against her in the Indie world.

        And for those of you that think his minor jail sentence that caused him to flee is no big deal, then I suggest that you visit the twin towers correctional facility in downtown Los Angeles and put yourself in his shoes. Then tell me that it is not a big deal.

    • ThetaBara

      Taking it down would be yet more falsification. It happened. Post an apology. Don’t try to rewrite history! Truthfulness and accuracy are the core of what he is trying to do in the first place.

  • pronoia

    Thank you for this series Tony and Jon. The story of what happened to Gerry Armstrong is one of the nastiest aspects of church history, right up there with what was done to Paulette Cooper. It is also one of the most confusing and Labyrinthian so I look forward to having some questions and likely misconceptions cleared up.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    PZ Thursdays: Oh my. You mean, he’s read History of Man and he is Still showing up here? I knew he had a stellar sense of humor, but I did not know he was a courageous sort. We should bring the gourmet snacks and only top shelf for this one.

    • Peter

      Yep, skip the popcorn! LOL

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        And perhaps we should also offer a very comfy old leather lounger I’m thinking. And slippers. Maybe SugarPlumFairy will bring warm slippers. I don’t know why I think of that as a fairy chore, but I do. And a good reading lamp.

        • TonyOrtega

          Ambien doesn’t need the competition, so I won’t be inflicting Science of Survival on anyone. No, after A History of Man I’m thinking of finding someone suitably fun to tackle Mission Into Time with us.

          • FLUNK_101

            Hana Eltringham. She’s a class act. I saw her with Leslie Stahl on TV. It was great. Hana talked about taking Prozac, and she put Stahl on the meter.
            Wasn’t Eltringham involved in that looking for Hubbard’s past-life hidden treasure?

          • RMycroft

            It’s really too bad that Hubbard could never quite remember where he parked his spaceship, never mind any of the past-life riches.

            • FLUNK_101

              I knew a guy (who worked with Captain Bill in the Sea Org) who said he remembered where he parked his old spaceship – just outside this universe in hyper-space!

            • RMycroft

              No wonder OT Scientologists can always find parking spaces!

          • John P.

            For “Mission into Time,” how about the guy who got the screenplay credit for “Battlefield Earth” who consistently talks about how they took his semi-decent script and turned it into the steaming turd of a movie that it became?

            • ze moo

              The movie was very true to the book. Corey Mandell and J.D. Shapiro (also wrote Robin Hood, men in tights) tried hard, but that is one turd that can’t be polished. Be glad they left out the last 1/2 of the book. It really could have been worse.

            • Robert Eckert

              The second half was being saved for a sequel: Travolta was not even deterred by all the J&D the first installment got: here he is, still talking about BE2 months after BE1

              http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/story?id=114399&page=1

            • MissCandle

              {This must be the turd that Kim O’Brien and Bill Maher found floating in the pool. Polished or not, I won’t swim there}

            • Robert Eckert
          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Mark Ebner. just because he can

        • GlibWog

          OOOH Hand up.. I will give him my Fleece Snuggie if it gets cold.

    • TonyOrtega

      It’s a very short book, so we’re doing it all in one go. But it’s a doozy.

      • John P.

        Glad that it is a short book, that the world was spared even more of Hubbard’s lunatic drivel.

        Sad that it is a short enough book to do it all in one go. I was looking forward to regular, repeated doses of PZ’s bombast and snark, plus all the fun we commenters could have riffing off Prof. Myers’ righteous indignation.

      • richelieu jr

        That cover is worth a day on its own.

      • Robert Eckert

        You would think that each page would contain enough lunacy to set off PZ for hours. But I can empathize with his desire not to make that book a long-term companion.

        • Once_Born

          I’m particularly fond of the account of the life of Piltdown Man, supposedly one of our early ancestors, which features in early editions of “History of Man”.

          You know – the Piltdown Man that turned out to be a hoax perpetrated by an anonymous forger on a credulous collector. The poor man thought he had found ‘the missing link’, when he had actually been carefully led into unearthing a mash-up consisting of a human skull and orangutan jawbone.

          Does anyone know it this passage been {corrected} out of later editions?

      • Kim O’Brien

        HIstory of Man is a short book ?? That is hilarious ….i never even bothered to look up how many pages or anything about it . Sounds like it should be a long one though …i mean the title implies it LOL

      • q-bird

        on Thursday the Bunker sails into hubbard’s History of Man – hold tight.

        • GlibWog

          yay Q bird.. Fabulous..woo hoo..

  • Cat Daddy

    I hope it will be Soon, Two things can’t be Dienied ,Hubbard was a great hypnothist and therefore very skilled in applied Psychology.

    Knowing of psychological processes makes for a fabulous cult, for how long it lasted anyway

    • sugarplumfairy

      hubbard was a crook, a sadist and a man with an undiagnosed and untreated case of bipolar d/o, narcissistic personality d/o, psychosis, sociopathy, paranoia and terminal assholery.. His only interest in applying psychology was in making money.. His skill was financial not psychological..

      • Missionary Kid

        I agree on everything except the bipolar disorder. Could you give me an example of the behavior?

        • sugarplumfairy

          Wel!, As for mania, how bout we start with hyper productivity, and then there’s the fact he tried to make himself a god and formed a religion to enslave adherents.. He exxagerated every accomplishment he ever had.. He was known to make grandiose statements.. diarretics was the most important invention since the wheel? he was a war hero? And let us not forget the nuclear physicist claims.. Instead of rocket scientist, he was just another average rocket scientologist..

          As for the other end of the spectrum and bipolar in general: “…According to a June 1990 Los Angeles Times article, The Mind Behind The Religion, Hubbard asked the Veterans Administration for psychiatric help as early as 1947 to treat fits of deep suicidal depression. Along with grandiose periods, this drastic swing from one extreme to the other again potentially points to bipolar disorder, though if he was ever officially diagnosed as manic-depressive, it was never made public…”

          I def think he qualifies..

          • Missionary Kid

            I don’t think was bipolar. I think the whole thing with the VA was just a pity ploy to try to get more money out of them. He was a hypochondriac, and, like everything else, he exaggerated everything to get what he wanted, which at that time was a pension. It’s for that reason, I find the VA diagnosis suspicious.

            Remember, he kept writing the VA with “poor me” letters even while he was out screwing around in Florida and fleecing people out of their money by “selling the yacht” and times when he was functioning normally.

            Bipolar people cycle between the two states, don’t they? I don’t remember any examples of his cycling or of mood instability, fluctuating between the two. Untreated, bipolar disorder tends to get worse as one ages, and the cycling tends to become more rapid, and there’s no evidence of that, or even that he kept cycling between the two.

            I think his he may have had a mania, or obsession with screwing people for his own benefit, but he didn’t have manic and depressive episodes. As I see it, according to the National Institute of Mental Health criteria, he didn’t have mood episodes.

            http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/bipolar-disorder/index.shtml

            I happen to know some people who are definitely bipolar, and unfortunately, it’s a diagnosis that is thrown around too often, because it’s a popular one.

            As one friend put it, “When I’m manic, there are no consequences, when I’m depressed, there is no future.”

            • sugarplumfairy

              I usually agree with you, kid, but this time not so much.. I too deal with friends and relatives who struggle.. His other psychoses may have been more noticeable, but I’d bet my nursing license that he was bipolar with psychotic features..

            • Missionary Kid

              I’m playing Lucy, “The psychiatrist is in, 5 cents” here, so I may well be wrong.

              At different times in his life, LRH may have been depressed and manic, but I don’t believe he evidenced the cycling between states that is a key part of the manic-depressive diagnosis.

              I believe he was mentally ill, and psychotic, but his depression that he played up in the Navy and later in dealing the VA was just a part of his malingering in the Navy and an attempt for a larger pension afterwards. When he was writing his pity pleas to the VA, he sure wasn’t acting like he was depressed, as opposed to what he wrote them.

              When LRH was writing or his lips were moving, he was lying, and I’ll bet he lied to the Navy and VA shrinks.

              If he’d been manic-depressive, I believe that people who spent long periods of time with him would have noticed the cycles, especially the nurse who was with him on the Flea Winds.

            • sugarplumfairy

              In the 1960’s bipolar d/o wasn’t as readily identified.. Also in the 1960’s very few nurses got any psyche training, unlike today when all BSNs get lengthy (and darn near unbearable) psyche rotations..

              You said yourself “At different times in his life, lrh may have been depressed and manic…” these ARE cycles.. there are no set, defined timelines for cycles.. All patients are different..

              If you are a licensed psychiatrist, I will accede and declare you correct.. Otherwise, I will insist on being right this time. =)

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        applause applause

        also, “terminal assholery”.

      • Cat Daddy

        Yes and he applied it to an artform to money making

    • Anonymookme

      And yet the Indies still guzzle the LRH is a God Kool Aid.

      • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

        yea, and likely this trend will continue for any new “Indie” splinter Scientologist.

        Marty to me has moved into the same group of splinter former members of Scientology, more like the 1950s “The Aberee” crowd in the sense he is open to totally non Hubbard paths.

        Whereas the APIS people, and Steve Hall’s faction are more traditional “Indies”.

        Martin Gardner’s take on Hubbard, from “Fads and Fallacies” holds true for me.

        Maybe a paper on the whole scale of Hubbardite influenced practitioners ought be done, decade by decade, since Hubbard’s “auditing” first came into being in 1950. (Hubbard’s exorcism auditing only really came into solid being in 1967ish extending to a great chunk of the action in OT levels 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 which are the exorcism secret levels of Scientology today.)

    • No, Hubbard was just a big enough asshole to not care about lying to and harming people for his own gain. There are plenty of people like that in the world. The trouble is, most people are basically good, and so find it hard to believe that others can be assholes to the extent Hubbard was. There’s a sucker born every minute.

  • Xique

    “The trance could only be maintained through a stubborn refusal to consider the material now available.” Jon Atack . Man if that ain’t the truth. I know , I’m with someone still in the trance, who stubbornly refuses to consider the material available to him. Is it the trance, or the stubbornness ? Both, I think.

  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

    About the time Gerry Armstrong became acquainted with Scientology the Hubbard official bio was being presented to the public. The bio was a principal reason why so many potential recruits found Scientology to be a transparent lie. Nobody, not an astronaut, not a president, has a personal history like that. On the other side, anyone who did the smallest amount of research was saying, “He was a Science Fiction writer, that’s all he was. Scientology is the first work of applied Science Fiction”. The guy I sat beside in university said that. Another friend said, “I was feeling down and I needed some help so I started looking at Scientology. I assumed the guy Hubbard was a psychologist or a philosopher but he was a Science Fiction writer. I am not getting into something started by a Science Fiction writer”. Couple that with pretzelogic about why they couldn’t produce what they were always claiming and most people just couldn’t take Scientology seriously.

    I also wonder about Hubbard’s decision to aggrandize himself as someone who grew up on a ranch (what was it?) one quarter the size of Montana and who toured the far east as a child and all the rest. He could have just as easily played down his advantages, and wrote that he had come a long way to become the leader of an American religion.

    A friend became a teacher of well-to-do children. He used to say, “The kid was born on third base and thinks he hit a home run”. Hubbard didn’t claim to be born on third base. He wrote as though his mother was sliding into home when he came out.

    Looking at the official website (http://www.lronhubbard.org/home.html?source=gaw) the photos show him as a chubby, rather unappealing kid. As a young man I think he was rather handsome before turning into a fat, completely unappealing middle age man. Maybe he never got over that and had to repaint his non-genetic inheritance into something important.

    • RMycroft

      I think this story from Russel Miller’s Bare-Faced Messiah (p.67) is a perfect window into Hubbard’s character:

      One evening Gruber sat through a long account of Ron’s experiences in the Marine Corps, his exploration of the upper Amazon and his years as a white hunter in Africa. At the end of it he asked with obvious sarcasm: `Ron, you’re eighty-four years old aren’t you?’

      `What the hell are you talking about?’ Ron snapped.

      Gruber waved a notebook in which he had been jotting figures `Well,’ he said, `you were in the Marines seven years, you were a civil engineer for six years, you spent four years in Brazil, three in Africa, you barnstormed with your own flying circus for six years … I’ve just added up all the years you did this and that and it comes to eighty-four.’

      Ron was furious that his escapades should be openly doubted. `He blew his tack,’ said Gruber.[5]

      5. Frank Gruber, *The Pulp Jungle*, 1967

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        I remember the mini-bios being on the back of novels and on the pamphlets. It was as though they had to convince you that the leader was born to win, before they could become the winning team. Yet, the world is filled with men of humble origin who have done great things. My favourite is the cover of “All about Radiation” where he is both a doctor and a nuclear scientist. Take your pick. My bet is that any Scientologist who knows about that one blames it on a nameless and long forgotten book designer. “Ron would never lie,” they would say.

        • RMycroft

          As if Hubbard didn’t drool over the first printing of every book, checking to make sure that everything was just so, and the semicolons were in place.

        • N. Graham

          I actually think he was referring to one of the co-authors when he put “doctor.” He, of course, was most definitely the nuclear scientist.
          The “Doctor” part he awarded himself later with a mail-in degree which he later flamboyantly “gave back” in some kind of protest.

          • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

            This is not in contradiction, I am just wondering. A friend had a first edition of the book, where it was attributed something like, “By a Doctor and a Nuclear Scientist”. My friend, who had left the cult, had a whole collection of L.Ron rarities. While he was showing me some of them he conveyed that he was sad to have been taken in by such a transparent liar. When he got to All About Radiation, he quipped, “A doctor and a nuclear scientist, take your pick”. I had always assumed that the doctor was Dr. Winter but I don’t remember seeing Dr. Winter’s name on the cover. WIth my friend’s quip, I assumed that Hubbard was referring to himself as the “doctor” and that the only kind of doctor that made sense in that context was a doctor of medicine. I get my share of things wrong, but I am still wondering if I missed the point on this one.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Dr Winter was credited in one of his early publications, but I don’t remember it being in All About Radiation, but Chuck would know. I Do remember credited “a doctor and a nuclear scientist” in All About Radiation.

              It really helped if you were a hippie or an illiterate or a college drop out back then. You were a thristy sponge and you didn’t notice the aftertaste too much.

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              Today I don’t think 250 people are involved in Toronto Scientology in all capacities and I include the children of public members. About the time Gerry Armstrong was a member in Vancouver, there were about 120 staff members at the Toronto Org. At that time, they were almost all, say 95%, from about 15 to 25 years old. The “church” was two blocks from Yorkville which was Toronto’s Haight-Ashbury. A friend who was an auditor at the time told me that every last person he had audited had used LSD. Most of the others, like me, like the aforementioned auditor, like the guy with the L.Ron rarities collection were university drop outs.

              You certainly got that right on the mark.

            • lightblb62

              I was on staff at Toronto org from 1971 to 1973 – then went to the Flag Ship when it was in Portugal. We were a pretty busy Org. I was 19. I lived in the Village (Yorkville) and would walk to post each day.

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              Thanks for the note Lightbulb! It is great to hear from you!

              I don’t want to get too deeply into my status at that time but we must have crossed paths. At the very least we have mutual friends from the past. I have told people, over the years, that there is no one at the Toronto cult office now that predates me. Just like me, each and every one of them have had the good sense to leave.

              The Globe wrote an article a few years ago with three Scientologists pictured, one of whom was Earl Smith. They referred to him as a veteran Scientologist. He was there when I was there. In fact, as ethics officer he was pivotal in my leaving. I have had the urge to phone Brian Levman and actually got his phone number. I won’t phone him or Rosie until I actually need information from them. I had a picture of the Toronto Sun front page with the Avenue cult office burning to the ground until my child lost the file. I would love to see that picture again. The other ones I would love to know about are Katie and Eric Lye, very decent people, who did a lot to get me in (no one is perfect). They wised up too, but I completely lost track of them long ago.

              When the cult fails I plan to dress my car up like it is coming from a big, loud, wedding and drive around 696 Yonge Street blowing my horn like the Leafs won the cup. Please join me. It might be soon.

            • stanrogers

              You’re actually dating yourself more with “like the Leafs won the cup” than with any of the Yorkville stuff. Speaking of which, how in the hell did that area transition into the Veblen goods capital of Canada? I wandered off to Halifax for a couple of decades, and when I came back it was all… different.

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              Thanks for the note Stan. Things have been busy here and I have unable to reply. Thanks for your patience. I remember the area transforming as it transformed. I used to love going down there and literally sitting on steps, as it became a commercial area. What I used to say then was an exaggeration but it still holds up to about the same degree. There used to be people selling incense, candles, tie-dye T-shirts and beads outside on the sidewalk. Sharp entrepreneurs bought the properties and began to sell the same items on the inside. I think the hippies moved to the Beaches. The ones who became doctors, lawyers and captains of industry eventually bought up the properties there too. Now, there is not much left in Toronto for people with little money.

            • GlibWog

              hahahah .. That brings me back to my college days as I was rioting about Vietnam and called my dad from the phone booth to tell him and he screamed..
              ” GET YOUR ASS BACK TO THE DORM..I’M NOT SPENDING $ FOR YOU TO BE ARRESTED! ” Jeeze Dad ” Peace Out “

            • RMycroft

              Dr Winter was gone by mid-1951 and All About Radiation was first published in 1957, so it wasn’t him.

            • villagedianne

              That figures. Hubbard hated giving others credit.

            • N. Graham

              Here is an excerpt on the Wiki article on it:

              “Early printings of the book were credited on the cover as simply “By a nuclear physicist and a medical doctor”, while subsequent ones credited L. Ron Hubbard as being the nuclear physicist and “Medicus” as being the doctor. By the 1979 edition, the “medical doctor” was credited as being Richard Farley. In the book’s most recent edition, the book’s authorship is attributed to Hubbard and Dr. Gene Denk and Dr. Farley R. Spink.” -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_About_Radiation

              Not that wikipedia is the best source, but that matches what I remembered from reading the book in years past.

              The article goes on to state that the book has been revised many times to remove info, showing that the church does change the unchangeable tech. From the article:

              Among the text removed from the book in later editions:
              “Alleviation of the remote effects and increased tolerance to radiation have been claimed as a result.” (pg.49)
              “How is it that gamma rays go through walls but don’t go through bodies?….I can fortunately tell you
              what is happening when a body gets hurt by atomic radiation. It RESISTS the
              rays! The wall doesn’t resist the rays and the body does.” (pg.79)

              “Scientology is the principle [sic] agency that is preventing and treating people for
              radiation at this time.” (pg.110)

              “Dianazene runs out radiation — or what appears to be radiation. It also proofs a person against radiation to some degree. It also turns on and runs out incipient cancer. I have seen it run out skin cancer. A man who didn’t have much liability to skin cancer (only had a few moles) took Dianazene. His whole jaw turned into a raw mass of cancer. He kept on taking Dianazene and it disappeared after a while. I was looking at a case of cancer that might have happened.” (pg. 123-124)

              And also:

              Despite calling himself
              a nuclear physicist (some editions of the book even call him “one of America’s
              first nuclear physicists” on the dustjacket), Hubbard was in no way a qualified
              physicist, nuclear or otherwise. His only degree was from Sequoia
              University, an unaccredited diploma mill. The only course in nuclear physics
              Hubbard ever took was in 1931 at George
              Washington University, whose records indicate that he scored an F in the
              course.[3] Hubbard dropped out
              of school shortly thereafter, with a 2.28 grade point average.[4]

              Hubbard referred to himself as a nuclear physicist on many occasions in the
              1950s, such as in the tape-recorded 1956 lecture A Postulate Out Of A Golden
              Age, where he not only claimed to be a nuclear physicist, but that he was
              offered (and turned down) a U.S. Government post as one. This comment has been
              edited out of the CD version of the lecture currently offered by the L. Ron
              Hubbard Classic Lectures series.

              In February 1966,
              Hubbard defended his mail-order degree: “I was a Ph.D., Sequoia’s [sic] University and therefore a perfectly valid doctor
              under the laws of the State of California”. But only a month later, he
              announced: “having reviewed the damage being done in our society with nuclear
              physics and psychiatry by persons calling themselves “Doctor” [I] do hereby
              resign in protest my university degree as a Doctor of philosophy (Ph. D.)”

              Hope this helps!

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              Thanks for the very thoughtful reply N. Also, thanks to the nameless individuals who researched the information in wikipedia.

              What a tangled web…

              Sorry for the late reply. I have been very busy and not near a computer. Because I am late, please understand that I am no less appreciative. I wish your reply had been earlier in the comments section. It would be nice had it been seen by everybody visiting.

            • N. Graham

              Thanks, I usually get on kind of late.

    • grundoon

      Those girls in the photo are Hubbard’s Messengers, young daughters of his devoted followers, who attended to his every whim 24×7. Oh, and Hubbard’s own daughter Diana.

  • Gerard Plourde

    “a comment Gerry made about a “scale” he’d found in Hubbard’s papers, which placed the Fool at the top — the illumined sage, unperturbed by suffering and above the world — and “fanatics and zealots” below the Fool, acting as a sort of trampoline. This was a profound insight into the Tech behind the Tech — Hubbard’s intention was to create a band of followers (I call them Dev-OTs) who would follow his will without question. He believed that he could become a sort of god through this means.”

    This pretty much lays bare what lies at the core of Scientology. It also proves that Miscavidge is the true spiritual son and heir of Hubbard. He has remained true to the principles Hubbard established.

    • Observer

      That paragraph jumped out at me too. There was nothing benevolent about Hubbard, though he could apparently wear that mask quite convincingly. He wanted to be venerated, feared and adored, and sadly there were many people willing to do, whether they were deceived into it or just wanted someone to venerate, fear and adore.

      • Gerard Plourde

        “He wanted to be venerated, feared and adored, and sadly there were many people willing to do”

        Part of the hook for the people who enter Scientology is the promise of power and, in a sense, godhood. I find it ironic that Hubbard claimed to be Buddha, given that Buddhism’s basic tenets are diametrically opposite.

        The power and control element also partially explains the bullying model present in all of Scientology. It relies on a fear of those in higher positions of power and a ruthless domination of those below. Hubbard and Miscavige were and are not exempt from the fear either. For them the fear stems from a paranoid (or maybe not so paranoid) fear that the outside world will unmask them and strip them of their power. Hence the need for secrecy and seclusion.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Close but not entirely accurate. Scientology is a God And Monsters game. Some places their bets for more power than God, some want to bankroll protection from the Monsters. Whatever the carrot, scientology is the crap shoot where every player winds up in some kind of Hole.

          • Gerard Plourde

            Interesting. I’d like to know more about the monster-avoidance aspect. I wasn’t aware of that angle.

            • splog

              IAS – the whole “obliterate the psychs!” trip the IAS is on.

              A smaller game is “don’t fall into the abyss”, “little black clinker of a soul” and “the eternally damned who commit finance overts against orgs”.

              Classic domination by fear of the bogeyman.

      • MissCandle

        There’s that similarity to charles manson again…

    • USA MRIID

      It also speaks volumes about the “clear cognition.” It’s intended to be a fraud, the insane crook knowingly created the crime syndicate to swindle money from the rubes, culminating in the “clear cognition.”

  • Ian

    Some great bits here. “Dev-OT” – love it!

    Can anyone point me at more information on the idea that the OT III incident was originally identified with the KT-extinction, and that as the scientific date changed, the incident’s date didn’t? I’d love to know more about that.

    • Xique

      Dev T, I’d forgotten that term until this morning. “Dev – OT”, quite funny, Jon.

    • Michael Leonard Tilse

      I don’t know much history of the effort to date the KT- extinction event, (or evidently now called the K-Pg extinction event). I know that when I was in scientology, it just seemed to me that the OT III “incident 2” was supposed to be the same event. I actually thought it was clever of hubbard to throw people off the trail by deliberately setting the date 10 million years earlier than the scientific date. I fully expected that hubbard would have revealed the “real” date as 65 million years in the actual materials.

      So, if the original scientific estimation in the 50’s or 60’s for the extinction was 75 million years, then it’s obvious that hubbard was using this known ‘scientific’ ‘fact’ to lend credence to his ‘wall of fire’ story. That science changed the estimate must have bummed him out. He couldn’t then say, “oh, I was wrong. It was really 65 million years ago”.

      • ze moo

        It appears Hubbtard stopped reading science journals (or even Time/Life/Boys Life) in the 40’s. He believed the Piltdown man was real (exposed as a fraud in 53) and didn’t correct that mistake in History of Man. Because of the general acceptance of Piltdown Man, Raymond Dart, the South African who discovered the Australopithecus in 1925 couldn’t get recognition of his discovery and science (real science) didn’t get around to the ‘out of africa’ theory until the Leakeys found more bones in the late 50’s and 60’s. Hubbtard is no better then the ‘creationists geologists’ who believe that no rocks are older then 6 thousand years.

        • Once_Born

          I found the passage in “History of Man” that deals will Piltdown Man.
          According to Hubbard, Piltdown Man was prone to:

          […] “freakish acts of strange logic, of demonstrating dangerous on one’s fellows, of eating one’s wife and other somewhat illogical activities”. His teeth were […] “ENORMOUS and he was quite careless as to whom and what he bit”.

          The abysmal writing and childish capitalisation are both in the original.

          Perhaps Pilt (as he was known to his friends) bit Hubbard, and was consequently assigned a condition of non-existence. This would explain why he… well… didn’t exist.

  • RMycroft

    Nan McLean and Gerry Armstrong. (Creative Commons Attribution) Having lunch across from the Toronto Org.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0f/NanMcLeanGerryArmstrong.jpg/800px-NanMcLeanGerryArmstrong.jpg

    • AnonymousSP

      That’s a great pic of two wonderful people who have been fighting this good fight for a long time. Thanks for posting it here.

    • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

      Great photo of Nan and Gerry. I downloaded the photo of Nan and Greg with the Anonymi. I’ll make a T-shirt for the big celebration.

  • Mark

    So Dennis Erlich thinks he can “help people out of cults by smoking weed”, does he? Another guru who lies (through his teeth) in the shade of a cannabis bush, I fear.

    Not that I have anything against people enjoying themselves with wacky-baccy, it’s just that I tend to agree with Patsy from ‘AbFab’:

    “Darling, if you want to talk bollocks and discover the meaning of life, you’re better off just downing a bottle of whisky. At least that way you’re unconscious by the time you start to take yourself seriously!”

    • RMycroft

      According to Dennis, the story is somewhat exaggerated.

      https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.scientology/-fDbqV81LaM/mmygWeVXFa8J

      • Mark

        OK – didn’t remember Journalism 101: always check more than one source for a story.

    • Captain Howdy

      Shane MacGowan and I approve of this message.

      • Mark

        Patsy: What will you drink if you stop drinking?
        Edina: I shall drink water.
        Patsy: [Blank look]
        Edina: It’s a mixer, Patsy, we have it with whisky.

    • ze moo

      Patsy and Edina are my favorite Limeys, after the Pythons. All of them are great philosophers.

      • BananaSplits8

        Patsy’s name has an “s” in it.

        • Mark

          Several: “Eurydice Colette Clytemnestra Dido Bathsheba Rabelais Patricia Cocteau Stone.”

    • GlibWog

      Oh Mark Patsy is my Role Model.. Love her

      • Mark

        What, you haven’t eaten anything since 1973?

        (I’m definitely not going there with “Oh it only lasted a few months and then it fell off…”)

        • GlibWog

          ” A Crisp Darling, A Crisp.”

        • GlibWog

          ” A Crisp Darling, A Crisp.”

  • AnonymousSP

    I’m in concert with Gerry Armstrong. Thank you for this Tony and Jon. Too many Ronbots still slander Gerry wherever and whenever they can.

  • Studious Judious

    Goldenrod to represent the suppression that surrounds you in the church. Light-blue for the piece of blue sky that has been inside you all along. And a tear of blood for the suffering created by the most {ethical} church on the planet.

    • AKlein

      I design, sew and sell pillow pal penguins on Etsy. I have been thinking of making an “SP” penguin to join me for my daily entheta here on the Bunker. I was thinking of making the “SP” exactly like you show here except for the tear!

      Here is a pic of the Superman penguin I make to give you an idea of the penguins I make. I was at first thinking of modifying the Superman logo but in the last few days was thinking more inline with your image. Do you mind if I use it?

      • Studious Judious

        I have no problem with you using the design. I’ll even be happy to send you my artwork files. I only ask that you 1) send me one of the finished products, and 2) make a small donation, whatever you can afford, to Tony, or Anonymous.

        • AKlein

          Absolutely! You can send me your mailing address to aniklein at sbcglobal dot net.

          I wasn’t thinking of listing and selling since this would not make any sense to the general public. I’ll just make one for you and me. The image I have here is fine! Oh yeah, making my donation to Tony right now!
          Thanks!

          • i-Betty

            Adorable SP penguin!

    • q-bird

      I quite love this design Studious… the blue sky that is always within us… lovely.

      • Studious Judious

        The design is meant to be for a lapel pin. If I could afford it I would have them made and distributed. I wouldn’t mind if Tony Ortega sold them either.

    • GlibWog

      Stud.. Absolutely Beautiful.. Brought a tear to my eye.. thank you.. sigh.. Really, really makes one think

  • aquaclara

    I hope Gerry is able to enjoy his life free from harassment, PIs or scurrilous websites. This is a fascinating report from Jon and Tony, and I look forward to the next edition. The photos here show a different time in the life of the cult-people look happy.

    On the various media reports, it is encouraging to see so many stories across all kinds of publications. Some are a little odd, but then, there is always something a little off going on in this cult.

    Thanks for a deep start to Saturday…

  • ze moo

    NarCONon wants to put another facility in Adjala-Tosorontio :(50 miles of so north of Toronto) Ontario. The ‘locals’ seem to understand NarCONon is $cientology and they don’t want any part of it. An article by David Love.

    http://www.wireservice.ca/index.php?module=News&func=display&sid=10757

    Several news sites have reported that Leah Remini is going to write a tell all book about her time in Lrooon land. I’d bet dollars to donuts the dwarfenfürher boots are filled with urine about now. Last year the Tom/Katie thing was everywhere. Now Leah Remini is everywhere. Can’t an obsessive psychopath get any peace?

    • Peter

      ROTFLMAO!!!

  • Sunny Sands

    Interesting how the wedding pictures show a nice affair with white table linen, champagne glasses, wedding cake, tuxedos, white gowns, just like a wedding on land. It’s a contrast with the stories of chain lockers, boiler rooms, triple bunks, and overboarding. It shows Hubbard could be a chameleon and be whatever the situation required.

    • lightblb62

      I was there for that wedding. I had my own in the same room.. With Capt Bill performing the ceremony standing behind that same pulpit. There was no overboarding done when I was on board. There was however, little in the way of fluff or luxury. I think the messengers had it better in that regard. We all worked long hours and the food was awful. It was a crazy crazy environment for sure.. Cock roaches everywhere. I am sad to see Gerry looking (to me) almost as if he is ill.. he looks wasted in that Toronto pic. Hubbard always “dressed”.. in whatever was the personality of the day. He was always presented with 3 different dishes for each meal. His floors were polished by his HouseHold staff strapping cleaning cloths to their feet. Only the best performed for the Old man, performed in minute detail and to perfection. And “Treason” if you tripped over Mary Sue’s dawg that liked to sit at the top of the steps in everyone’s way. lolol.. ahhhh the good old days.

      • Kim O’Brien

        sounds like the Love Boat meets A Clockwork Orange

        • lightblb62

          LOLOL.. EGGXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!! WHY THAT IS IT EXACTLY! LOL PERFECT!

      • Observer

        So then Davey came by his multiple-choice meal selections honestly (if you can use the word “honest” in connection to any aspect of Scientology). More proof that Davey is just following in the old man’s footsteps, even if he is a bit more enthusiastic about things than Hubbard was.

      • RMycroft
      • Sunny Sands

        Great first person story, thanks for writing it.

      • villagedianne

        Hubbard was presented with 3 different dishes for each meal? Everyone says Miscavige is worse than Hubbard, but Miscavige is presented with only 2 different dishes for each meal! I didn’t know Miscavige was capable of such heroic self-denial.

  • richelieu jr

    I would like to call you attention to the following line:

    ” He wanted to know if he should do OT III with the independents — or buy a Ducati motorcycle.”

    The independents are better why, exactly? They want to sell lies to suckers for money and intimidate former victims to put their crimes down the memory hole….

    Plus ça change….

    • Espiando

      The Indies are to the Church what a nicotine patch is to smoking, just something to eliminate the cravings until you actually get off the stuff for good.

      • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

        Indies won’t fair game you, when you realize “you’re making it all up yourself” in your mental maunderings that Hubbard’s auditing questions send you.

        The Milgram authoritarianism isn’t built into the Indie movement, as it is in official Scientology.

        Thus, quitting, lapsing, taking vacations, buying motorcycles, is thus allowed.

        If official Scientology were to “go Indie”, that’d be the end of 90% of the controversies.

        • Kim O’Brien

          the indies just don’y have the $$…i think they would fair game if they could . As an outsider ..i have to say …the only difference seems to be the cash ..just watching how they turn on each other is chilling enough

          • Anonymookme

            At Marty’s anyone who dares disagree with Marty’s new, improved cult is shouted down by the very zen, deep thinking (gibberish gushing) Marty adoration society.
            Marty will allow a tiny bit of disagreement, but he will NEVER allow comments that point and laugh or the dreaded joking and degrading. His Achilles heel is J & D. He sees himself as far too important to be pointed and laughed at.
            Meet the new false god, same as the old false god.

            • Graham

              Isn’t this the same with all religions? Anything more than the mildest criticism and you’re “disrespecting my religion” (ie challenging me to actually think).

            • Anonymookme

              It isn’t the same in any way, shape or form.
              You can criticize my faith all day long.

            • Graham

              Apologies. I shouldn’t generalise.

            • Once_Born

              May I ask what that faith is?

            • Anonymookme

              Catholic. Criticize away. I can guarantee you I will not hirePI’s to follow you.

            • Once_Born

              Thank you for that.

              My parents were Church of England, but I turned out a thoroughgoing rationalist. Some of the best discussions on the subject of religion I have ever had were with my Father. We could say anything to each other, because we respected each other.

              I wish it was always the same here. As it is, I think some exes can be forgiven for occasionally going over the top because of the trauma inflicted on them by the CofS, while some indies think they are defending their faith.

              Me, I really would like to talk to the believers about their beliefs. I don’t expect to convert anybody, but I would like to try to understand them.

              We should get on together, you and I.

            • Anonymookme

              Convert them to what?

            • Once_Born

              Not being Scientologists, that’s all.

            • GlibWog

              Really I could give a Rat’s Ass..

            • Kim O’Brien

              yeah …that place is just one big emotional hand job for him . The Oracle get’s him off on a regular basis i think ….that bitch is cray cray

            • Anonymookme

              Uh, The Oracle is way over the top.

            • Anonymookme

              Joking and degrading is Marty’s Kriptonite

          • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

            My “role model” Indies are Franky and Mary Freedman, and Ken Urquhart, Pierre Ethier, and Trey Lotz, and the Ron’s Org people in EU. Not even Steve Hall, Jim Logan, the Georgia “Courseroom” nor the Israeli center that defected, none are inclined to do OSA like crap!

            None of them would fair game anyone, anytime. I suppose they might snipe privately, but never would they fund PI harassment, etc. Even if they were given the Frank Oliver leaked OSA Network Orders, and told those writings are “source” (Hubbard’s for real), they wouldn’t set time aside to do OSA like tactics of smearing and PI hiring to harass their “enemies.”

            • Kim O’Brien

              If they donated to the church , they funded harassment right ? So they did do that for years and years …just now they don’t. No disrespect but my guess is that they left ( as with most scios i have read about ) after they kept getting hit up for $$ over and over and over again ….not because of any reason like “abuse of children” or anything. At least with the catholics ..when the kid raping stuff was really hitting the press …the flock stopped giving . Not so with the scios …they put their hands over their ears until it was them on the receiving end of “abuses of power ” . But hell ….i have never wasted years of my life in a cult and then had to come out of it with what was left of my mind and moral compass …so what do i know ?

            • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

              I view Indie Scientologists as mainly dedicated Hubbard pseudo-therapist practitioners. Frankie and Mary were Class 8s, or Frankie was also a Class 9 (audited exorcism OT 5); Pierre was Class 12 and multi-lingual, he audited thousands and thousands of members and the full lineup of Hubbard’s pseudo-therapy; Ken was a Class 9 (NOTs OT 5 exorcist); the others are auditors also.

              They were the deliverers of the pseudo-therapy, and in Ken’s case, he spent years of facetime working directly for Hubbard, Ken’s doing a book that will be a must read, because of his long close relationship to Hubbard, but overly fawning over Hubbard’s hype self promotion of himself. Ken has said many critical things about Hubbard, but is overall overly positive.

              People who only recieved the pseudo-therapy and didn’t really become Class 6s and Class 8s, and case supervisors, and didn’t just audit, audit, audit, for years, and see firsthand the placebo effects of Hubbard’s pseudo-therapy, aren’t the Indie Scientologists who last. The pseudo-therapist/case supervisor and training supervisor types who know the end goal is getting the pseudo-therapy done, are what I consider are core Scientologists.

              Official Scientology’s attendent controversies have mainly to do, percentage wise, with Hubbard’s other organizational and membership rules and constraints.

              The core Scientology practices of the pseudo-therapy seem (all those tens of thousands of laid out pseudo-therapy set commands the Scientologist trained pseudo-therapist asks of the patient/recipients) to cause the least amount of pissed off recipients, and it I think is what the ex member Indies hang onto most, because I feel it must be the placebo effect of the pseudo-therapy (based on the ideas of past lives and surplus souls who themselves are mentally damaged) which core Indies

              Indie pseudo-therapists for the most part just inherently stay away from really troubled mentally bad off people, I believe. And they are more flexible and tolerant to let people with more severe mental health problems seek proper mental health care. (This last is just my guess.)

              Once official Scientology goes offline (which it probably will take more time than most expect), then the next up issue in my mind, is the Hubbard pseudo-therapy itself, and system Hubbard lays out that the Indies follow in delivering the pseudo-therapy.

              Arguing over Hubbard’s label of the word auditing, to me, is a major issue. And can and should a religion have such intense mental impact on people’s minds, since Scientology is a past lives trauma pseudo-therapy, and a high volume mental exorcism of dead alien souls, a pretty extensive mind messing operation.

              A book on Larry Wollersheim’s experience would be a good project, I think.

              the setups that even the Indies follow, since to me, they are engaging in placebo mental healing, at best, and are so deep into Hubbard’s language which self refutes it being mental health practice, that it’s a difficult argument, at least for me, how to dissuade them from practicing the Hubbard pseudo-therapy.

            • Kim O’Brien

              i do not think that auditors are therapists ….therapists go to high school …to college…get a degree.” Auditors “are part of a cult …you can say someone was a class 24 auditor in scientology …all it says to me is that they stayed in a cult a really long time and gave the cult a ton of $$ and they thought they would have “powers” . No one but ex scientologists …and those of us who like watching this soap opera …give a crap or have ever even heard of L. Ron Hubbard ( other than a punchline) More people know who Justin Bieber is ( that includes my gramma ) People openly laugh at this Chuck ….and back to my first point …my guess is that your friends did not leave because of abused children …..they left because they kept getting hit up for cash and realized that they could not fly or maybe that cool parking space was just luck. Getting mental health tips from a crazy person like Hubbard , is just plain crazy.

            • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

              All the ones I mentioned were staff. So as staff they get the training as fake therapists for free. Because it’s a long arduous task to become trained as the fake therapists, they value it and Hubbard gives them ample rewards in his whole hierarchical writings self promoting all the various staff positions in his hierarchies. Of the yearly 6 or so major Scientology celebrations, one, the September celebration is called “Auditor’s Day”.

              Indies today were mainly some of the most dedicated Hubbard supportive staffs, and mainly they did the most training as the fake pseudo-therapist positions. Go down the list of the most sought out Indie groups, you’ll find active fake pseudo therapists, they were people who put in years inside the movement on staff, learning and then delivering the Hubbard auditing.

              When the time comes to dissect Hubbard’s legacy of fake therapy writings, someone will have to look over Subject Volumes 3 and 4 which contain the tens of thousands of auditor commands which supposedly make the patient/recipients of those command/questions think up spiritually healing answers and reach their epiphanies about their lives and about existence.

              Take a look at Subject Volumes 3 and 4, the tens of thousands of Hubbard’s fake therapy questions asked by the Hubbard auditors.

              To move up the “processing” side of the Bridge chart layout of Hubbard’s, means answering hundreds and thousands of those Hubbard fake therapy (auditing) questions.

            • villagedianne

              I tend to agree. If the Indies avoid the abuses of official COS, I’ll be ok with them. They will have to cherry-pick a lot of LRH’s policies.
              If the Indies are disagreeing among themselves, I think that’s a good thing. It shows a rejection of top down authority.

            • watcherAnon

              maybe you didn’t catch Karen de la Carriere’s attack and call for action against Brian Culkin. She went old school guardian’s office. She has LRH deep in her bones.

            • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

              Hardly the same level of crap like sending Squirrel Busters to Marty’s doorstep, or even like what was pulled on Gerry Armstrong over the years.

          • splog

            “i think they would fair game if they could”

            They already did. Milestone Two.

            • Kim O’Brien

              how is setting up yet another ” we indies are the best ” blog fair gaming ?

            • splog

              You saw the in-fighting that went along with it? You saw Marty’s post where he laid into the 11 individually? You saw Steve Hall and James Haydn swiftly backtrack once WWP found Ethics COmmittes and A-J checks? You saw Lana and Jim unfriend others wholesale afterwards?

              None of those are mature, tolerant reactions. I used to be in and they look to me like the same mindset that goes along with Fair Game and Disconnection. A milder form that what CoS does to be sure, but essentially the same mindset. They still haven’t grown up and dropped it. IMHO of course.

              And all with a large dose of rage-quit thrown in just for good measure.

            • Kim O’Brien

              sounds like grown ups behaving like children ….nothing like “fair gaming” of Paulette Cooper !! OR Gerry Armstrong .Two men having a pissing contest over who gets to be king of some imaginary hill . Really …who gives a shit ? A bunch of nutters as far as i am concerned .

            • Robert Eckert

              I have to second Kim’s question. What exactly are you accusing Milestone Two of having done, and to whom?

        • Captain Howdy

          “The Milgram authoritarianism isn’t built into the Indie movement”

          But it is built into the human psyche, which is why absolutist groups of all kinds need to be avoided and discouraged.

          • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

            Agreed.

            LIke someone said somewhere else, the Indies on their own, aren’t authoritarian enough to snare the volume of dupes that official evolved Scientology has snared. (I think Roy Wallis in “The Road to Total Freedom” implies or says something like this.)

            Indie/splinter Scientologists have the challenge of existing past one generation.

            One gauge of the “superiority” of official Scientology, is how it fares after this Miscavige era (Reitman used the Brigham Young analogy, saying Miscavige might be considered Scientology’s Brigham Young.)

            Indie Scientologists fall into the groupings that Wallis talks about in his book, “The Road to Total Freedom.”

            The “Introduction to Scientology Ethics” is the Hubbard compilation of most oppressive and irrational authoritarian constraints in a single Hubbard book, which still need a more fuller inspection and chapter or small book showing the oppression and unbearable condition this Hubbard ethics/justice system results in.

            Scientology’s absolutist rules are most easily seen laid out in this book “Introduction to Scientology Ethics” the pages on the suppressive acts and high crimes.

        • Snake Plissken

          If official Scientology were to “go Indie” that would be the end of Scientology.

          There is no market for a role playing game based of cheesy 1950s science fiction among sane people

          Scientology needs a psychopath like Hubbard or Miscavige to keep the con game going.

          The Indie Scientology movement only attracts people who are not playing with a full deck, where as the cult simply preys upon suckers who may not necessarily be insane when they enter. The sane ones leave when they realize it’s con game, the rest either remain in the cult or if they are too far gone the cult kicks them out and they end up in the Freezone.

          • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

            Yes.

            The greatest unappreciated book Martin Gardner’s “Fads and Fallacies” really nails Hubbard in 1950s context, and for all time.

            Then Roy Wallis’ great “The Road to Total Freedom” tells Hubbard’s busy beaver work up to the 1970s.

            Hubbard was a long term busy beaver con man setting up his long con damn network of franchises.

            • Mark

              Just been reading Gardner’s brilliant book, precisely because you mentioned it here a few weeks ago. Apart from the demolition-job on Dianetics, I particularly like the chapter on the dire Gayelord Hauser’s dietary claptrap.

              Gardner also did hugely entertaining annotated editions of Lewis Carroll’s Alice books, and The Hunting of the Snark.

            • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

              What astounded me, are the parallel irrational behaviours of ALL pseudo-science groups, and those groups’ leader(s).

              Gardner comments that it is almost routine for crank pseudo-scientific authors
              to loudly engage in character assassination of the authorities that
              the crank is being ignored or criticized by.

              In Scientology’s case, Hubbard has taken the inhouse captive audience organizational steps to institutionalize Hubbard’s dramatizing this very irrational behavior.

            • I have been trying to remember Martin Gardner’s name for about two weeks. Thank you!

          • BananaSplits8

            “…the cult simply preys upon suckers…”

            A tad unfair. As you may have observed, there are many exes on this board and they are anything but “suckers” (or “stupid” as others might characterize it). Everyone, and I mean everyone has areas where they hurt and are vulnerable. The cos like so many other cults specifically zero in on those vulnerabilities from the onset and provide topical soothing that initially seems to work; that’s the bait. The switch comes shortly after and the cos’ hidden hook is particularly vicious. Exploiting someone doesn’t make them suckers (kind of like blaming the victim, you see).

            • I think it does make them suckers. But here’s the thing: anyone can be a sucker. Anyone can be a victim of a con. People who think they cannot be fooled are the most vulnerable to it.

            • BananaSplits8

              I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. A sucker is someone who gets taken in when common, average knowledge and experience would usually warn others of an impending threat.

              Cults in general and scientology in particular don’t overtly behave in a commonly known threatening manner. However, they very slowly and insidiously establish a pattern of urgency (both spiritual and monetary), harass, intimidate and threaten with reprisal all thoughts and behaviors that are inconvenient to *them*. Again I say, it’s not about getting suckered, it’s about being exploited. This is why Tony’s blog, Tobin and Childs’ articles, Tory’s, Karen-J-Swift-AGP videos and many other critics are so important: they are slowly, gradually making the cos’s MO common knowledge. So yeah, maybe in 2-5 years we will be able to say the new scientologists were suckered in because common and average knowledge will then know better of the impending danger.

            • Studious Judious

              After reading this, I feel I must offer an official apology to anyone I might have offended. I have made at least one comment where I said someone “wasn’t stupid enough to fall for Scientology’s scam.”

              I am ashamed of that kind of thought.

              It won’t happen again.

          • Once_Born

            Scientology is ‘made up stuff’. One of the reasons that the {Church} has survived this long is that it persecutes members who try to make up new stuff. If it didn’t, there would have been schism after schism, and Hubbard’s creation would have quickly disintegrated into something resemblling our contemporary ‘New Age’ woo woo.

            The independents are likely already already drifting apart, doctrinally, and starting to argue with each other about how many angels can dance on the point of a pin. This fragmentation is something they can’t control – if any one independent sect starts to apply oppressive discipline it will lose its members to another.

            • villagedianne

              I think a lot (but not all) of Scientology is not so much made up stuff as it is stolen stuff, ripped off from many sources.

      • Studious Judious

        I feel that since the indies, by definition, don’t have a monopoly on the teachings of LRH, that things such as the RPF, disconnection, and the physical abuse just aren’t possible like they are under corporate Scientology. If your independent auditor punches you, then you can find another that isn’t abusive. If your independent auditor wants you to disconnect from your SP family, then you could find another who won’t practice disconnection. If your indie auditor is charging you too much, and reg’ing you into the poor house, then I bet you could find another who charges reasonable fees and doesn’t use high-pressure sell tactics.

        It is the monopoly on LRH that gives corporate Scientology huge amounts of leverage.

        Some followers want pure LRH, and there are certain to be indies who will provide it.

        Some auditors might want to modify ‘the tech’, and they are certain to find followers as well.

        • BananaSplits8

          I don’t venture in indie world so I may be wrong on this, but I also think that indies are too busy gazing at their own navels to really be on the “psychiatry kills” warpath. As far as I know, it’s the only flimsy “planet saving” canard current scilons are, as a group, hanging on to anyway. (Narconon and TWTH already dying from their own natural evolutionary death. I dare Kirstie to publicly endorse Narconon now… in fact, I triple-dog-dare her).

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        And like the nicotine patch, it doesn’t work except for a tiny few which is due to placebo effect and one very important factor:

        Nicotine gets out of your system within 36 to 48 hours max. After that time, each “urge” is based on psychological pinnings and pinings, Not physical withdrawal. Those who “cut down” whether a little or a lot, as soon as they suck it in, start at the very beginning of the worst of the withdrawal symptoms, even if it’s just one cig that day. Just one. So those with success believe so well that they don’t smoke at all. And those who try to cut down suffer the worst of the physical withdrawal systems….constantly, and unless their masochists, they go back to smoking.

        99% of nicotine withdrawal is dealing with mental pinnings. Having a drink? must have a cig. Having a celebration? must have cigs. Having a stressful day? Must have a cig? Mother in law for dinner? must have many cigs. Each time you run into an “instance”, you will have a craving, but it will Pass after a short time. Recovering scientologists need to deal with their psychological pinings, not squeeze on another soup can.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    A Board Game for all Bored Scientology Shills, Celebs & OT 8’s.

    … Something to do while waiting for your Super Powers… See the Reg in the VIP Lounge today only! The rules of the game will be mailed to you after the game is over and your check has cleared. That is all.

    http://i42.tinypic.com/33c0xgg.jpg

    • Captain Howdy

      That’s fantastic. Is that your handiwork?

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        tks, yes, and before my 2nd cup of coffee too. The Armstrong saga mixed with the Remini saga is inspiring. There just might be an entire “Remini Family Edition” in the works any day now.

        (btw, Hi Dave. I know you have to be lurking at the mention of the Armstrong. How’s Leah and

        …where’s Shelly?)

    • GlibWog

      Hole.. Just Brilliant. . OMG can I put that as my Screen saver .. I would buy that game… ha..You could make a mint!

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        The scientology family that fair games together …. stays together. I’ll have to work on a digital game with apps, the UnFriend Facebook and F*ck ‘Em Twitter version.

    • tetloj

      No way there’d be free parking….just sayin’

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        free parking in jail. heh

        • i-Betty

          Lol!

    • dmscohb

      Fyi, I just found a copy of some of the rules. Very interesting.
      – The goal is of the game is to lose all your $ to the cult the fastest.
      – If at any time if you don’t like how someone is playing, you are allowed to lunge across the board and slap their ears. Then give them a drink.
      – The shortest person always wins. The shortest person can change the rules at any time as they see fit.
      – The shortest person’s token is the car. All other players must exchange their tokens at the start of the game for the thimble. All must share the thimble. Figure it out.
      – During the game, players must stop communicating with each other one by one until no players are speaking to each other except through the shortest person’s lawyers.
      – The game ends when the shortest person decides to “leave their token”.
      – Everybody loses the game every time.

    • aquaclara

      This is brilliant! You have some huge shoopy skills here! Davey will be envious….

  • California

    RE: attempt to put another Narconon in Canada: http://www.wireservice.ca/index.php?module=News&func=display&sid=10757

    This is similar to SCN’s/Narconon’s failed attempt to get a Narconon in the rural Leona Valley area (near L.A.) on property that they owned there back in 2004/2006. They appeared to be winning until a group of dedicated neighbors (including retired LA County deputies) did an excellent response to both the BOS and to the Planning Commission about how dangerous it was to put a facility for a large number of people on dangerous, narrow two-lane roads that were closed during the periodic forest fires that plague that part of the county. There would be no way to safely get the Narconon people out. Narconon also lost on other contentions and, yes, there was the standard “carrot and stick” approach by them to the neighbors and others, which did NOT endear Narconon to the people they were trying to persuade.

    They never seem to learn.

  • Watergate

    Is it just me — or do comments here appear, disappear and reappear from time to time? Anyone know what the deal is?

    • Espiando

      It’s Diksuq. Don’t worry about it. There’s no OSA activity involved, and Tony never goes “psycho moderator”. Just…well, flawed tech. Kinda like the organization that’s the focus of this place.

    • Robert Eckert

      It used to be that after a couple hundred posts, Disqus would start flailing. Then Disqus was apparently upgraded and was doing much better, until we at the Underground Bunker decided to choke it with 500+ posts every single day.

    • Once_Born

      If you click on some of the ‘view new posts’ options, the posts are reordered, which makes it look as if some have disappeared. I refresh the page when that happens.

  • Gerard Plourde

    Slightly off topic- A German web site “ShortNews” is reporting that Katie sabotaged TC’s plan to send Suri to a Scientology summer camp.

    Here’s the link (it is in German, though)

    http://www.shortnews.de/id/1040999/kein-scientology-sommercamp-fuer-katie-holmes-tochter

    • Graham

      My Translato-mat assures me that this is what they are saying:

      ” Little time, due to a film shoot, has currently Katie Holmes, to take care of her daughter Suri. This in turn called her ex-husband Tom Cruise on the plan to put them into Scientology summer school. But now Katie Holmes sets out all the stops to protect her daughter from it. Her mother, grandmother Suri should take care in the meantime to the minor. The camp gives the crude teachings of Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard and his community.”

      • RMycroft

        Translato-mat with the politeness filters switched off, Katie: “Hey Tom, eat a bowl of dicks!”

        • Graham

          Hey Tom, ein weidling von dicks essen!

          • Mark

            Was ist mit deine “Weidling”? Na, na: “Hei Tom, ess’ eine Schüssel Schwänze!”
            Oder (oyf Yiddish): “Yo Tom, esn a shisl putzim!”

            • Graham

              Hey, I never said my Translato-mat was perfect.

              I know very little German, but one phrase which has stuck, from a choral work I’ve forgotten the name of, is: “Die im schatten leben haben eine grosse licht gesehen.” which I believe is from Isiah 9:2 and translates as “The people who walked in darkness have seen a great light”. Something we can hope for for all those still trapped in the cult.

            • Robert Eckert

              Correct, but remember that German retains the habit of capitalizing all nouns (not just proper nouns), hence Die im Schatten leben haben ein grosses Licht gesehen

            • Mark

              Amen to that! Was the choral piece by Bach, or maybe Schumann?

            • Graham

              Bach strikes a chord 🙂

            • Mark

              Bach AND Luther’s version – marvellous. But don’t think the words occur in the St. Matthew Passion. Now you’ve set me a puzzle!

            • batfink

              I think its an aria in G. F. Händel’s Messiah

            • Mark

              The lyrics to that are in English : )

            • batfink

              You are correct Mark, the original version is in English, well multiple versions really 🙂
              However, various German versions exist also. Hiller and Ebeling come to mind (Mozart added some arrangements to the latter one).

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              “Shisl Putzim” I don’t know what that means, but don’t tell me. Imagination works.

      • Gerard Plourde

        Pretty accurate, if literal, translation. My German’s somewhat rusty.

  • The last time I saw Gerry Armstrong was in LA around November 1981. He had been working on the bio project for most of the year and when we ran into each other on LRH Way he looked very disturbed and agitated. He mentioned several times that I did not know what was going on. Turns out he was right.

  • nottrue

    the picture of hubbard at the wedding table with the young girls swooning behind him reminds me of the manson family

    • Kim O’Brien

      i thought the same thing ! really creepy

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        It is a snapshot of both the attitude and the altitude of the Apollo Days that Kate Bornstein conveys in her book, “A Queer and Pleasant Danger”. Hubbard was an adulated Father Figure for both women and men back then, many you might label “hippies”, but not all. Even Hana Eltringham has discussed that even though she knew first hand what Hubbard was, there was still a lingering love of the man they came to look up to as substitute parent. This is not uncommon in cult like groups as I am learning.

        • Espiando

          So, instead of “in loco parentis”, we have “in parentis and loco”. In this case, really, really loco.

    • MissCandle

      I read an article/book review this a.m. on the daily beast website about a new biography of charles manson based on the interviews that author Jeff Guinn did with people in the know of charlie’s childhood. It SO reminded me of lrh.

      http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/08/03/the-making-of-a-monster-charles-manson-s-childhood.html

    • Johan

      It’s very reminiscent of a scene in The Master….

    • Buggs

      A bunch of mind-control victims waiting for their lord’s reaction and approval.

      How happy LRON must have been.

  • Sherbet

    Armstrong’s exposure of lrh’s records reminds me of the people who create crop circles and later admit that it was a hoax. Yet woo woo believers refuse to accept the explanations and insist crop circles are real. Faced with proof of lrh’s lies, his followers refuse to accept it was all a crock of BS. Words to live by when considering scientology: Buy the Ducati.

    • N. Graham

      “Buy the Ducati.” Dear Abby couldn’t have put it better!

    • Once_Born

      See the fascinating (and hilarious) “Round in Circles” by Jim Schabel – especially the chapter about Doug and Dave, two blokes who entertained themselves after the pub by creating artistically elaborate crop circles right under the noses of self-styled {scientific investigators} .

      They only used a length of rope, some 2″ x 4″ and a lot of trampling, but fooled everyone – most {investigators} continued to believe the phenomenon was ‘unexplained’ even after the two old fools demonstrated how they did it in broad daylight.

      Also, these examples of ‘True Believer Syndrome’ – Psychics came clean, and admitted it was all a con – but couldn’t shake off people who continued to believe they had a genuine supernatural gift. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True-believer_syndrome

      • Sherbet

        From Wikipedia: “Randi commented: ‘no amount of evidence, no matter how good it is or how
        much there is of it, is ever going to convince the true believer to the
        contrary.'”

        Exactly. The heck with the truth and the documents Gerry Armstrong had in his possession. Ron could do no wrong.

    • USA MRIID

      🙂 The Bay Area Skeptics videotaped themselves creating a “Crop circle” and in the morning the media and every Newage (rhymes with Sewage) loon from miles around came to sit inside and hum and sing and pound drums. “Experts” from around the country either came to pronounce the crop circle “genuine” or chimed in on television with endless flying saucer insane lunatic notions.

      When the BAS came out with the videos and showed everyone it’s an easy hoax, most of the dimwits continued to believe in “crop circles” and yet the BAS also got paper mail claiming that the members of the BAS were aliens who were left here after having their memories blanked, that the BAS members were themselves aliens and did not know it.

      Speaks volumes about the brain of the religious.

      • John P.

        This is the essence of fundamentalist or extremist religions and religious beliefs: cognitive dissonance tends to make people believe harder when evidence appears that undercuts their beliefs. Those people believed more crazy alien stuff at the end of the episode, rather than less. Said another way: you know you’re a fundamentalist when your reaction to a given situation boils down to “If it doesn’t work, do more of it.”

        • USA MRIID

          And the crooks blame the victims when the victims find that they have been buying a fraud.

  • Kim O’Brien

    I watched Bill Maher a few nights ago …he was talking to a liberal catholic priest ~ what one might call an ” indie catholic ” . Of course he was talking about the love of god for all …peace and yadda yadda ….kind of blowing off the questions about why the bible hates gays and women ….( you know the drill ) and the priest was cherry picking all the good stuff .( just like the indies in scientology try to do ) Maher made a great point ….and i will say the same thing to the indies . If you were at a swimming pool …beauiful infinity pool let’s say …hot day , wonderful water ….but just before you decide to jump in and feel refreshed ….you see a huge shit in the pool . Now …it’s just ONE piece of shit after all …would you get in the pool ????

    scientology is riddled with pieces of shit . Get the Ducati

    • Life is riddled with shit. Christianity has way more good stuff in it than Scientology, its basic core is pretty good (love thy neighbor), and it has been around for a couple thousand years. All big religions that have existed for a long time are similar.

      In the mid-19th century, European doctors killed about half the women whose labor they were called in for because they refused to wash their hands. That is just one of the many, many, many terrible things doctors are responsible for throughout history. That does not mean we should discard medical science.

      Christianity actually granted women a lot more selfhood and humanity than what the broader culture of the time granted them. It said: you are not a sex toy and incubator. You have a soul that is equal to the worth of anyone else’s soul. For thousands of years, women and other people who were pressed down by their society (i.e. antebellum slaves) found comfort and strength in the fact that Christianity says — explicitly says, right there in the New Testament — everyone is equal.

      The Bible does not hate gays and women anyway. It’s a tome that stretches for a long period of history, is written by many different people, and has a bunch of stuff in it that contradicts the other stuff. Its biggest message, however, is to be good and do good, to help the poor, and not to be an asshole. Yeah, there’s Leviticus, which also says it is evil to wear mixed fibers. This book is OLD, of course it has stuff we now consider dumb in it. That doesn’t mean none of it has any value at all. That would be like saying anyone who thinks anything Freud said is of any value is an idiot because of the dumbass theory of penis envy. Or hey, we should throw out ALL of the U.S. Constitution because it originally allowed slavery. We re-interpret and change things for a new time.

      That’s no excuse for giving money to the Catholic Church that ends up with the Vatican, but there’s nothing wrong with being Catholic, either. I wish there would be another schism, personally. They could set up a new pope in Detroit.

      The core of Scientology is not worth any of this. Scientology is based on Hubbard’s despicable victim-blaming anti-science completely bullshit philosophy. It isn’t like there’s a shit in the pool. It’s a pool made of shit.

      • Kim O’Brien

        i was raised catholic …that is why i am now an anti-theist . All religion does is twist people up into making excuses for why religion is not all THAT bad . I just try to be a good person …surround myself with people who feel the same way and practice random acts of kindness . And i don’t search for anyone …or anything …to answer difficult questions . I am a good mother , a good friend , and a tough bitch . I think i am doing a pretty good job if i may say so myself 😉

      • q-bird

        excellent post Lliira. i hear you.

    • Missionary Kid

      Caddyshack.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Groundhog Day. Trust me. I keep waking up each day and finding this Crazy is still around And still causing problems, the same ones, the same thing, over and over.

    • Bella Legosi

      That’s why I love Bill!

  • Vinay Agarwala

    Did Hubbard suffer from grand mal or seizures?

    Wikipedia on PHENOBARBITAL;: Phenobarbital (INN) is a barbiturate and the most widely used anticonvulsant worldwide, and the oldest still commonly used. It also has sedative and hypnotic properties, but as with other barbiturates, it has been superseded by the benzodiazepines for these indications. The World Health Organization recommends its use as first-line for partial and generalized tonic–clonic seizures (those formerly known as grand mal) in developing countries. It is a core medicine in the WHO Model List of Essential Medicines, which is a list of minimum medical needs for a basic health care system. In more affluent countries, it is no longer recommended as a first- or second-line choice anticonvulsant for most seizure types, though it is still commonly used to treat neonatal seizures.

    • Espiando

      He probably didn’t. But Hubtard was self-medicating before the Age of Benzos, when barbiturates were still incredibly popular for sedative purposes. These days, if we feel a need to come down, we’d pop a Valium or Xanax. Back in the Valley Of The Dolls Era, though, barbies were it.

      • Vinay Agarwala

        Hubbard must have had some issues that he resorted to Phenobarbital… anxiety? I doubt if he was using it for recreational purposes. He was a writer at that time and survival seems to have been a key issue for him.

        Later he made SURVIVAL the key to his philosophy, not only in Dianetics, but also in the Theta-MEST theory at the beginning of Scientology.

        • Espiando

          Oh, he had issues. We know he had issues. Anxiety was just one of them. So what did he do? Resorted to the most popular medication for anxiety of the time: phenobarbital. You didn’t use barbies for recreational purposes. But they were very well known thanks to ads everywhere and popular culture. What do you think the Stones’ “Mother’s Little Helper” was about?

          • Vinay Agarwala

            That implies that Hubbard could have been helped by his mother, but that is an assumption.

            • Kim O’Brien

              no …it does not imply that Hubbard could be helped by his mother …it implies that his mother would have been helped by the pills . You need to listen to The Stones more ..

            • Vinay Agarwala

              You are right!

            • Espiando

              I think you have an M/U. More than one. So many that I don’t know where to start.

            • Captain Howdy

              “That implies that Hubbard could have been helped by his mother”

              MC?

          • Captain Howdy

            “You didn’t use barbies for recreational purposes”

            Seconals, Tuinals, Nembutals were some of the most popular recreational drugs of the 70’s

            We use to eat them like M&M’s

            • Espiando

              You used to eat everything like M&Ms back in the 70s, Cap. That’s why those of us who came of age in the early 80s had nothing left except coke, which none of us could afford. Those of us born between 1962 and 1966 have a good reason to be angry at you guys, You got all the good cheap drugs and all of the hot casual sex. We got left with coke and AIDS.

            • Captain Howdy

              True dat.

            • Lark Smith

              Don’t forget crack..the poor man’s coke.

            • Espiando

              And even that came around too late for us. Our young adulthood really sucked.

            • Bella Legosi

              Honestly, the way coke made me feel, I am glad it is expensive as all hell! Nobody needs a Bella who thinks she is 10ft tall, bulletproof, AND has spoon bending skills! lol

            • Lark Smith

              Hey, I was in my late teens it just reaffirmed how truly AMAZING I was at that age. My delusions of grandeur were EPIC.

            • Robert Eckert

              I tried cocaine a couple times and didn’t really like it much, for which I am very grateful, given my history with every drug I did like.

            • Sandy

              I actually thought I was a good dancer! What a joke …

            • Bella Legosi

              lol how funny! I second that statement! Although, one of my first experiences with any dancing in public was at a jazz and blues bar in the NE part of Portland (I had just turned 21). I sat and watched what looked to me like old hippys. Then a 70 year old, rail thin, black man came up to me and asked me if I would dance with him. I said I had two left feet and would embarrass him and he said (while pointing to the dance crowd), “Oh, baby girl! You can’t be any worse then these people! Come on! Let’s see what you got!?” Surprisingly, I wasn’t that bad and didn’t step on his toes once. He had to concede my statement that, “It takes white folks a little longer to get rythem!” lol he and I laughed and had a dance or two more! I wasn’t under the influence of coke tho. That was before I discovered coke; just Devil Cabbage and Whiskey Sours that night. It was and still is a good memory.

            • GlibWog

              Ahhhhhhhhhhh yes.. One Night Stands and No condoms.. Fabulous nights..

            • Bella Legosi

              Fuckin A!

              I didn’t come into being until 83! I was born in the midst of coke heads, crack heads, MTV, and HIV/AIDS! My generation was given condoms and Oxy! Oh and who can forget the neat club drugs that made a lot in my generation E TARDS?

              As of 2005 did you know that the FDA approved methadone for pain management???? Fuck you FDA. Fuck YOU!

          • Anonymookme

            Just try to imagine the level of his anxiety! At any moment he could be exposed as a charlatan, con man and fraud!

          • Bella Legosi

            I thought that song was about Valum; that is what I was told by my mother, but thinking of the song in context with the time it came out it prolly was barbies…….hmmmmm you do learn something everyday!

          • Xenuvius

            I always assumed Mother’s Little Helper was valium…non?

            • Espiando

              Not necessarily. Valium had been on the market for a few years when the Stones released the song, and Valium would go on to top the pharma sales charts a few years later. But it could really be about any anti-anxiety medication that had been handed out like candy to suburban women: barbies, Miltown, Librium, or Valium. I’d vote for barbies because Mick and Keef would most likely be familiar with those, as they’d entered the street pharmacopeia earlier.

        • Captain Howdy

          Srsly? Hubbard was a well known and observed recreational drug user. He had a foot locker on the various ships full of bogusly obtained pharmaceuticals. He was known to have obtained script pads by nefarious methods. HELLO, “I’m popping lots of pinks and greys”.

          Let me guess you’re an indie?

        • Kim O’Brien

          why do you doubt he was using it for recreation ? Sounds like he liked tripping his face off …and if you are anxious …that is kind of the last thing you want to do ( just FYI )

          • Vinay Agarwala

            I like being mindful. If I assume something I want to know it as an assumption.

            • Kim O’Brien

              i think you need to smoke a joint or something. I “assume” you will not …thus that is my assumption …i think that is different from my “knowingness” but i might just be assuming that …i mean after all ..it could just be an allegory of knowing how to know …know what i mean ? All this havingness and knowingness are just assumptions …i mean …what if you are wrong ? ( cause i am assuming you are )

            • sugarplumfairy

              I assume that one could automatically assume that your assumption that anyone, yourself included, can mindfully assume the absolute truth of an assumption assumed by anyone would be inherently flawed since an assumption by nature is not an absolute truth, just an accepted or assumed truth..

            • Vinay Agarwala

              I think I am spinning.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Me too.. =)

      • Bella Legosi

        ie Marilyn Monroe

        I knew a fur model from the early and late 60’s who was prescribed dextroamphetimine to help her maintain her weight; as well as speed her up for the runway shows, then at night she was prescribed heavy barbs to come down and counter act the speed. That wasn’t all either. They gave her morphine for headaches and to add to the barbs at night. Basically, if she had the money……there were docs who were more then happy to give her whatever she wanted and she got it all. She ended up becoming a heroin addict for like 25 years. My mom helped her kick, but by then it was too late. All the drugs ate up her stomach and gave her many other disorders. She ended up being put on OxyContin (this was back in 97, back when that shit was for real pharmaceutical heroin without tamper resistant features) and I remember her taking the meds and nodding out on our couch. She ended up dying in 99 or 2000. But she and I would talk about the shit she had seen and done back in those years. It was nice to know her before she died.

    • Bella Legosi

      Back in the 40’s and 50’s things like phenobarbital were given out like candy for a pleathera of symptoms. They would prescribe barbiturates to housewives who were given speed in the day so that they could sleep at night. It was used for nerves, added to painkillers (potentate), alcoholics, sleep disorders, and for seizures. Back then (much like the prescribing environment now) doctors wrote powerful drugs for things that weren’t really necessary to warrant being prescribed drugs on the level of heroin, meth, and Nebutol. Also, back then tracking what was prescribed (for who, and what) by doctors was really unregulated and there was nothing remotely like a Prescription Drug Monitoring program in place. I believe the information itself was all spread out and if one wanted to see what was being prescribed and by whom you would have to ask the manufacturers, pharmacies, and doctors (or the medical examiner). And I don’t think any of those places would be willing to just give up the info.

      This is why I do believe Hubbard took a lot more then just barbiturates and whiskey. Hell methamphetamine inhalers were sold OTC until 1960 and even then doctors would still prescribe shit like it to housewives and laborers.

      • Vinay Agarwala

        I am glad I am from India.

        • Bella Legosi

          lol
          India has the market cornered on psudophedrine (India is where that chemical was first developed. When Oregon went on to ban the use of it in OTC products there was a ton of flack created by the Indian pharms who knew that would put a dent in legal business. Some of these manufacturers are known to cook up quantity’s for Mexican Cartels for use in super labs in Mexico and Europe, namely Romania), that is the main ingredient used in the home made meth labs here in the states. India also runs many internet pharmacies that cater to those who have prior scripts, credit card, and billing/delivery addy!

          • Vinay Agarwala

            Ah! Those good old days!

            .

            • Bella Legosi

              lol we use { } for sarcasm! Honestly, as much as I have dabbled and loved pharmacuticals, I will concede that that industry is chock full of profiteering evil. It is scary how much I know about it and I don’t even work in the pharm industry. But with most of everything; you have your good and you have your bad. I am so vocal about narcotics because I had an upbringing with them in my life. Not to mention all the anti-drug education my generation received during the crack epidemic in the 80’s and then the heroin/meth epidemic in the 90’s. People are just now realizing just how much legal narcotic pharmacuticals have destroyed my generation and countless others not 18-35. Portland has seen meth and Oxy virtually take over its population. And this isn’t just a problem among minority. It stretches into homes of whites and is quickly infecting every social/wealth class in Oregon. Actually, it is either very wealthy white folks who can afford good insurance who get prescribed copious amounts of pills or those on Disability. However, since Oregon implemented their Monitoring Program a lot of what was available on the black market has dried up. But that just leads to a virtual free black market for heroin. Meth is somewhat on the decline here the past 10 years. Since there isn’t any way to get psudoephedrin outside of a prescription, most of the meth comes in from Canada or is trucked up from California.

    • grundoon

      Phenobarbital was a general purpose tranquilizer way back then, given for all kinds of things since there were few alternatives and all had big shortcomings (opiates, chloral hydrate, etc.) Epilepsy was not well understood and had no standard treatment. The WW2 Navy docs might have prescribed phenobarbital to Hubbard for hypochondria and just to get him to shut up and sit down and quit running around the hospital telling everyone how to do their job. Now most of the former uses of phenobarbital have been replaced by better and safer drugs, and its remaining uses are mainly for emergency interventions.

      • Vinay Agarwala

        Thanks. This is a great place to get right information.

  • Truthiwant

    How can someone believe in anything Hubbard wrote after knowing the truth about him?

    And what about one’s right to believe in the teachings of Scientology knowing all too well of the abuse that was used by Hubbard and continues to be used by other members of the church today? How moral is it to believe in Scientology?

    When I left Scientology I wanted nothing to do with Hubbard’s teachings whatsoever.The whole truth about Hubbard and learning of the abuse within the church made me completely refuse any connection with Scientology.

    However, there are people that leave the church who continue to talk about the great changes it made in their lives and of course there are the independent Scientologists that continue to practice Hubbard’s technology.

    To me, all those people that still continue to believe in Scientology along with those that still openly practice it and at the same time KNOW about the abuse should, I believe, do some serious soul searching.

    Of course, the independents say that Hubbard is not responsible and all the problems and abuse stem from the present management. However, in my opinion, the fact that somebody still uses and practices the controversial teachings of Hubbard should be condemned and I believe that two big questions arise concerning any independents or individuals that still use or believe in Hubbard’s Tech and they are:

    “Knowing of the abuse and the truth about Hubbard, is it morally right to still practice Scientology, even if certain parts of the technology are partially workable?”

    and/or

    “Is it morally right to practice a belief that has created so many problems for so many people including, in certain cases, suicides and deaths caused directly or indirectly by the teachings and practices of Scientology?”

    • Artoo45

      Easy. Stick your fingers in your ears, close your eyes, rock back and forth in a fetal position saying “it’s all apostates and crims, apostates and crims, apostates and crims.”

    • USA MRIID

      How can anyone read OT3 and not know it’s insane lunacy? For that matter, how can anyone read the Islamic Quran or the Christanic Bible and think it’s anything but insane delusional bullshit?

  • HillbillyWog

    As for the Remini story being kept alive in the tabloids–the National Enquirer’s gossip columnist Mike Walker, who wrote the bogus Travolta piece that Tony mentioned in the July 24th Bunker, keeps bringing up Leah’s question at the TomKat wedding. In the last two issues he’s been asking “Where’s Mrs. Miscavage?”

    I’m new here so I don’t know if this has been mentioned, in this week’s Enquirer: “Travolta’s Sitcom Secret”. “On “Kirstie”-which debuts Dec. 4 on TVLand-Alley plays Madison Banks, a Broadway star whose life is upended when the son she gave up at birth (Eric Peterson) comes back into her life. Travolta plays a stagehand on Madison’s Broadway show who continues to pester her after a one-night stand.” Gee, can’t wait for that.

    • Espiando

      As a son who was given up at birth who’s tried to contact his birth mother to no avail, this hits too close for me, especially as a sitcom. I wouldn’t be watching if it was Judi Dench in the starring role. With Moby Alley, hell no.

      • aquaclara

        Very sorry for your hurt, Espy. That is sad that you weren’t able to connect with your birth mom. But I hope that the family that was lucky enough to choose you treated you well. The ones that gave you up missed something great-smart, funny, quick, and concerned about fixing things that are wrong. (see how much we can tell here?!). Maybe it will happen one day.

        My mom was adopted, and while her childhood was poor, very unusual, and somewhat complicated-she attended so many grade schools that she can’t even remember them all, as they moved constantly. But she had a very loving mother and grew up to be a wonderful person, mom, grand mom and wife herself. I am so lucky to have her.

        • Espiando

          Unfortunately, my adoptive parents didn’t have enough skill and instinct in this area to manage a hamster cage, much less a child.

          Maybe it might happen. Before I wrote a letter to my birth mother, I tried to do something cutesy and “friend” my half-brother on LinkedIn, hoping that he’d wonder why someone in a vastly different industry would do so on a site that brings together people of identical professions. He just friended me back and didn’t bite. I must have been in the wrong line when the luck gene was handed out.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Espiando, just my opinion, but it sounds like you might be luckier than you know. While there are biological definitions and chemical bonding agents involved with family concepts, family is what, how and who You define it to be. People who care and have your best interests to heart, have compassion and concern, people who are there for you in good times and bad … that is one kind of definition that does not include DNA strains anywhere in it. In the end, DNA does not mail Birthday cards or give Christmas presents or make you chicken soup when you have the flu. Hugs.

            • Espiando

              Given the family that I was given up into, as well as my natural scientific bent, I prefer the genetic definition. Besides, there’s that missing space on my original birth certificate where the name of a father should be, and my birth mother’s pretty much the only one who can fill that in.

          • villagedianne

            The public does not always realize that adoptive parents can sometimes be just as dysfunctional as biological parents. I’m sorry you had that experience.

          • aquaclara

            I think we all hold that image of the ideal family tree front and center in our minds. The one where everyone gets along, marriages stick like glue, siblings truly get along and love one another, and the kids are always perfectly wonderful, while the aroma of fresh-baked apple pie wafts through the kitchen. Instead, more often than not, we struggle with the real life parts that involve more paper plates than the good dishes for holidays, a cluster of people joined by ex, step, former and half, ignoring the family members that cause strife or never show up in the first place.

            I know there are days when you need family. I hope you have found it now, with special friends in your life.

            I am lucky. My husband is wonderful to my former mother in law, his former MIL, former step MIL, and my mom, too. No man should have to deal with four mother in laws, and yet he does. just one reason why i love him. Because of the bits and pieces that led to all of this, we call that time before “the time when crap happened.” Everybody gets a fair share of that, some more than others.

            Your lucky days are in front of you. I know this. It comes when you’re not looking. But it WILL happen. Peace+love2U.

            • i-Betty

              Aquaclara, really, really, really lovely comment. What a sweetheart you are. Huge love to you, too, Espiando. xxx

    • GlibWog

      Will Boycott Krusty’s show.. but am happy that Mike Walker is asking
      ” Where is Mrs. Miscavage.. Shows me that someone informed him about what is going on..

  • Michael Leonard Tilse

    Gerry Armstrong is amazing. His integrity and courage in telling the truth about hubbard, using hubbard’s own words and documents is unequaled.

    Hubbard himself was fond of Sun Tzu’s “The art of war” in which the trust placed in an agent of the enemy is dissolved by revealing his true nature. And is then killed for his treason. Thus becoming a ‘dead agent’. The process of removing the influence of a critic or enemy is thus called “dead agenting”. It is so deliciously ironic that hubbard himself was dead-agented with his own words, writing and actual history.

    Gerry’s role in revealing the truth about hubbard is not easily overestimated. The information he was able to have placed in the court record, authenticated as being hubbard’s true private history, has been the turning point for so many who leave scientology. It is the indictment of the lying conman by the lying conman himself.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Gerry Armstrong, in his time, and of those of his kind, were prime movers of The Great Unravelling.

      Leah Remini, at this time, and others of her kind, are preeminent markers of The Great Reckoning.

      http://i43.tinypic.com/2v2jmeg.jpg

      • splog

        fuuuuuuuck….

        now I have “bridge to nowhere” to the tune of “Road to Nowhere” by Talking Heads spinning round and round my brain.

  • villagedianne

    “My most important memory of that meeting was a comment Gerry made about a “scale” he’d found in Hubbard’s papers, which placed the Fool at the top — the illumined sage, unperturbed by suffering and above the world — and “fanatics and zealots” below the Fool, acting as a sort of trampoline. This was a profound insight into the Tech behind the Tech — Hubbard’s intention was to create a band of followers (I call them Dev-OTs) who would follow his will without question. He believed that he could become a sort of god through this means.”

    To me this adds another dimension of credibility to this statement by L. Ron Hubbard Jr. in his 1983 interview with Penthouse Magazine. Here is what L. Ron Jr. said:

    “I believed in Satanism. There was no other religion in the house! Scientology and black magic. What a lot of people don’t realize is that Scientology is black magic that is just spread out over a long time period. To perform black magic generally takes a few hours or, at most, a few weeks. But in Scientology it’s stretched out over a lifetime, and so you don’t see it. Black magic is the inner core of Scientology –and it is probably the only part of Scientology that really works. Also, you’ve got to realize that my father did not worship Satan. He thought he was Satan. He was one with Satan. He had a direct pipeline of communication and power with him. My father wouldn’t have worshiped anything. I mean, when you think you’re the most powerful being in the universe, you have no respect for anything, let alone worship.”

    Here is a link to the entire interview:

    http://www.rickross.com/reference/scientology/scien240.html

    • lightblb62

      I just read this Penthouse interview. OMG! If even 1/2 of what LRON JR. said is true…..holy cow!
      I just keep learning more and more even after all these years. That is one POWERFUL interview.

      • Artoo45

        I remember reading it in 1991 after the Time issue hit the newsstands. I was livid that the world had access to this information and basically the response was a shrug. I still see the cult as a cowardly bully, picking on everyone smaller than they are and then running to hide under mommy’s skirts (religious freedom) when someone actually fights back. I am not one of the critics who can say “I don’t hate Scientology.” I. Hate. Scientology.

        • q-bird

          I am in concert with you on this Artoo45 – no sh*t.

      • q-bird

        This interview did me in – horrified me beyond belief – made me realize just how evil fucktard’s thought system really was – then add to this his ‘admissions’ – his self-hypnotic b.s. crap he kept telling himself, in his own handwriting even (THANKS to Gerry) – done deal for me – this man was monstrous… and laughing all the way to the bank, a coward hiding out throughout his whole life, ripping off anyone and everyone around him. What a piece of work. Makes me ill I tell ya wah!!!

    • Bella Legosi

      I was looking over paperwork at work yesterday and came across a potential client who was named “Rick Ross”!! I had a little eye popping episode, followed by hopes it was the real Rick Ross, but upon further reading it wasn’t 🙁

      Where I work, you never know! I am waiting to see one of the residents use the computers and see them on the Bunker! 🙂 A girl can hope right?

    • Interested

      Ive just finished reading the whole interview OMG.! So many questions come to mind
      . 1) One is if the Indies read this would they believe it. After all it is their “leader” who was even more vicious and vile than even Miscaminimouse. And that is saying something. Beating women, abortions with coats hangers, taking pleasure in the distruction of others lives. And on and on.I realise jr might have an ax to grind, but the fact that all this dispicable behaviour became their bylaws and are being adhered to so fervently is surely proof of what was in the interview.
      2) HJ is he still alive? I know he was put on show at his sons funeral. Note that his arguments given then are the same given now…… Ho hum……. 3) Quentin “committed suicide” but what happened to his brother Arthur? Does any one know.
      pPlease if you have nit read that interview….. It is a must…

      • villagedianne

        The cult claims L. Ron Jr. lacks credibility. Indies probably feel the same way. L. Ron Jr. recanted in the end for reasons described in this Wiki entry:

        In the updated revision of L. Ron Hubbard: Messiah or Madman?, Bent Corydon comments:

        In the case of L. Ron Hubbard Jr.’s 1986 “legal settlement” with Scientology, he had accumulated sizable hospital bills due to recent emergency surgery. This left him weakened and heavily in debt. Concerned about the welfare of his family he finally agreed to a “settlement”. This included his signing various prepared documents. I don’t believe for a moment that Ron Jr. ever considered these prepared statements to be accurate representations of his thoughts and beliefs. The man was under duress.[7]

        COS and probably the Indies use this as a way to question L. Ron Jr’s credibility. Personally, I would take L. Ron Jr’s word over the cult’s word any day.

        L. Ron Jr. even changed his name to Ronald DeWolf in order ot disassociate himself. He is deceased. Jamie DeWolf is the gandson of Ronald DeWolf, and the great-grandson of Hubbard.

  • Marc Headley

    Gerry and Jon are OG. I love to read about them here. I hope the horrible wrongs against Gerry are righted someday.

    There is one constant that runs through all of these old stories and the new ones today – Scientology is the Rodney Dangerfield of cults. Always has been, always will be.

    I am confident that we will see the downfall of these criminals in the near future. The legs are being pulled out and documented on this blog daily. These guys have so many crimes that are covered up, there is no hope to keep them all secret.

    David Miscavige told us a story one day about the FBI raid that happened in the late 1970’s. Danny Sherman had been “declared” so he could infiltrate a group of SPs that was working with the FBI. Here is the kicker. Danny Sherman learned of the raid the night BEFORE and alerted the scilons! The stuff that the FBI got in the July 8, 1979 raid was the stuff the Scilons didn’t have time to shred or round up before the FBI showed up.

    Now of course, Davey Miscavige had just been in the CMO for a few years and had been overseeing the construction of the new Gold base at the time this FBI Raid went down. Tiny Fists used the FBI Raid to his advantage and this is when he perfected his master plan.

    But, whenever something goes wrong in Scilonville they have a universal technique which explains why everything got fucked up. To use the scilon parlance, you have to go “earlier similar”. Right before the shitstorm happened, what changed or what went down? SPs. There were SPs, lots of them! Even though the SPs were infiltrated and ratted out, they still got some serious owning in in 1979.

    Today – the SP network is alive and well. There are run of the mill SPs, SP reporters, SP TV stations, SP magazines, celebrities and even government workers. Hell there are even SP cats sleeping on top of printers here and there.

    Gerry and Jon are OG SPs.

    I salute you!

    P.S. Davey – your asthma is about to get worse, much worse. Where you’re going, you’ll wish air was the only thing you’d end up sucking.

    Great reading for anybody who has not had the pleasure. You can feel Dave Miscavige squirming throughout. http://www.davidmiscavige.wikiscientology.org/text/Deposition_of_David_Miscavige,_the_Witness,_July_19,_1990_-_Part_1

    • Kim O’Brien

      rodney dangerfield of cults…that was awesome

      • Intelligenceplus

        GREAT story, Tony!!! Thanks <3

      • Xenuvius

        I can’t get no respect…

        -Elron

    • MarionDee

      Marc, I am only halfway through that great document and my jaw is hanging open! I’ll say here and now that someone should edit it slightly and do it as a courtroom drama on Broadway (if it’s legal) –billing it as Theatre of the Absurd. Miscavige answers like an idiot and his lawyers are the Mad Hatter and the March Hare. They’re so infuriating the audience might well take matters into their own hands. The transcript is more surreal and compelling than Ionesco (I’m dating myself, but you in the late 60s you had to read The Bad Soprano at my high school.) And it beats almost everything by Beckett!

    • Bella Legosi

      “I don’t know what you mean by ‘some time’ or ‘deposition procedure’.” DM…….and then the his lawyers says (generally), “Let’s skip the preliminary’s! He knows enough about what is going on! Even though my client is playing dumb. I hope the court reporter notes this! That way we can use it to disqualify what ever, because DM said he ‘didn’t understand’!” Jeebus Criso Jumping Christ! And that was just the first questions! Holy fuck! What a lawyer! Distract, distract, quibble, distract, waste time, distract………*sighs* and this is why people hate lawyers.

    • RMycroft

      I bet he sometimes wishes for the good old days.

      Ministry of Fear January 24, 1983, John Saar, People
      http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20084129,00.html

      Hmm. Commander Miscavige during the mission sort-out. I wonder when he slipped himself the captaincy? I’ll have to have a closer look at the death announcement video.

      • USA MRIID

        The insane conman called himself “Commodore.” 🙂

    • GlibWog

      Ohhhh Off to read Marc.. thanks Mr. Love to your family xo

    • grundoon

      By actual count, the population of Earth is ninety-seven-and-a-half percent SP’s.

    • USA MRIID

      “Where you’re going, you’ll wish air was the only thing you’ll end up sucking.”

      ROFL. You know, I doubt he’ll get put in to the general population, he will ask for and get special storage with the cons, not the least reason of which is he’ll be able to retain some of his offshore money.

  • mook

    looks like we were right about Leah Remini and her memoirs
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/sns-rt-people-reminiscientology-20130803,0,7220625.story

  • Gerry is a good guy, it’s always a pleasure to meet him. The last time I saw him was in Dublin where he delivered a very relevant speech about why the mind-fuck perpetrated by teh criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology is toxic: the SP doctrine., Let’s just have the link to teh video again (I’m sure it must be a few hundred comments since someone included it 🙂 ).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2X0-XvJclo

  • Tone

    Gerry is the true big being in all of this. He stood up for truth and it nearly cost him his life. Knowing what the cult has taken from him I would not blame him if he was bitter. But he isn’t. If anything the cult’s continuing attacks give him energy. He draws strength and resolve from their hate, laughs at them even. You cannot help but feel energized by that.

  • stillgrace

    I love this quote from Scott Pilutik, taken from the weird Forbes article Tony mentions towards the end of his post. “Wollersheim should take a few more cues from Scientology and add some aliens and spaceships if he wants to ever become a bona fide religion. Charging members tens of thousands of dollars to advance through a byzantine maze of spiritual advancement wouldn’t hurt either.”

    • Artoo45

      If it is Wollershiem, I hope he’s up to something big. Failing to be recognized by the IRS for a structure basically the same as the Sciloon’s could have implications for the mass of litigators lining up to take cases similar to Garcia.

      • Espiando

        If this is what Larry’s doing, he needs to do one final thing just to stab the knife right in the heart: charge a dime for all services.

        • Artoo45

          A thin one.

  • RONtheProfiler

    Gerry Armstrong is the best.

    A lot of the indie leaders are all making money off Ron, so naturally they Gerry and anyone who spreads the truth concerning Hubbard’s desire to enslave people.

    • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

      Great handle. Ron the profiteer, rather than profiter, yea?

      A whole long list of new Ron magazines could be done, of Ron’s various multi-career exploits he demostrated with his overall pseudo-science! There’s ample of Ron’w voluminous writings to quote for the following:

      Ron the Master Pseudo-Scientist !
      Ron the Master Propagandist !
      Ron the Master Spy Master !
      Ron the Master Salesman !
      Ron the Master Cult Leader !

  • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

    I was so happy to find that Gerry Armstrong, was still active fighting against Scientology, in early 2003, when I first began surfing the internet.

    I’d been told by OSA’s Kirsten Caetano that “Gerry’s been handled” and that “he’s not doing anything” against Scientology today (2003). Her telling me this, really sunk my hopes.

    Seeing Gerry posting and jabbing at Scientology, regularly, on the chat sites, in 2003, really boosted my spirits.

    It is so relieving to know that people can fight against Scientology’s wrongs, and be supposedly “handled” and then in fact they are still fighting the good fight against the idiocies and horrors and wrongs in Scientology.

    OSA’s Kirsten Caetano must know she was lying, when she says this or that critic is “handled”, when she lies to followers who ask what OSA is doing to “handle” these obnoxious “enemies” of their grand movement and founder.

    Gerry, Arnie, Dennis Erlich, BTs2Free, Karen Pressley Schless, Tom Provenzano, Dan Garvin, Nancy Many, Ladybird, Cerwiden, were about the only ex staff/Sea Org I listened to.

    Gerry was in 2004 the first person I phoned for advice, when Scientology attorney phoned me just before Thursday at 2pm, to gag me.

    Gerry and Arnie and Tory, all posted their phone numbers, in 2004!

    Thankyou Gerry!

    • AnonymousSP

      Thank you for telling this Chuck. I bet there are ex SOs say the same thing about you.

    • USA MRIID

      “I’d been told by OSA’s Kirsten Caetano that “Gerry’s been handled” and
      that “he’s not doing anything” against Scientology today (2003).”

      Which was total BS. The insane crooks were sending letters to Judges daily demanding that Gerry be charged another $50,000 every time Gerry posted a comment to a.r.s. Gerry never gave up telling the truth.

  • DuckBenway

    Quoting Tony Ortega: “It’s also a very complex history, and that’s why we’ve turned to Jon
    Atack for help. This week, we begin a series on Gerry Armstrong and his
    legal plight that we hope will eventually, perhaps, lead to some real
    changes to make up for an incredible legacy of shameful behavior against
    a man who simply tried to tell the truth.”

    “He who tells the truth gets chased out of nine villages.”

    – Old Turkish Proverb

  • KNMF

    Gerry wasn’t out for revenge. He was/is out for truth. Which is why he’s stronger and better than these indies.
    It is the same reason that Tony Ortega is winning.

    A lot more people would have been victimized without Gerry Armstrong and Jon Atack.
    I’m so thankful that Gerry was the guy to find the evidence of the truth.
    It could have been somebody weaker, like a Mike Rinder type.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      “Make no mistake. It’s not revenge he’s after. It’s a Reckoning.”

      And so are we all, my friend. So are we all.

      http://youtu.be/LRVhtVCfzo8

  • Bella Legosi

    *sighs* There is a database of entheata just begging to be created!!!! I swear it!

  • Erica

    Fascinating article! I cannot research Scientology enough, there is always something new to learn. I am still a little lost on some of the abbreviations and (to me) foreign words. I walk by downtown Portland’s (always empty) Scientology building on my daily walk to work and always feel bad there is nothing I can do to help these poor brainwashed worker-bees inside. I am touched to read about the heroes who bring to truth of this cult to the masses, and risk so much in doing so. The only negative in finally seeing this dangerous “religion” put to rest is no longer being able to read Underground Bunker and the other anti scientology truth tellers.

    • May_West

      There are a couple of scilon glossaries online, just for us nons. Here’s one that might help.
      www dot xenu-directory dot net/glossary/glossary_a.htm

    • Bella Legosi

      THANK YOU for walking past that creepy building and giving us an update here! I haven’t been down there since Rose Fest and feel bad I haven’t! I feel ya on wanting to help those poor brainwashed bastards, but until they can come to terms with the lies they have been told and PAID for; I doubt anything we say, do, or prove will change their mentality much. However, when the Walls of Rons’ Lies do come crashing down at least they will know there are thousands on the internet willing to put their neck out for them and help them lead a more fulfilling life!

      I read from a poster on here (sorry I dont remember your name) that what really struck her was the sign, “Your doubts are VALID” I have some days off coming up and think I might have to post up across the street for a few hours! Talk to some of the homeless (who support anyone who thinks $cientology is bunk btw), chat it up with some locals, and maybe even be graced with Portland’s local stalkers…….OSA!

      • Erica

        Yes, I’m always thinking of creative fun ways to “protest”. I would love to print out some info. And bring it in the building to share, since they probably don’t have a lot of time to catch up on what’s new new out there on the Internet ;). If I had more guts I would pretend to be interested in their cult, just for the experience (at the risk of being seen by others in those GIANT wall-windows). I would enjoy asking them questions they would have a hard time answering. And yes, our “doubts” ARE valid, expect they are a little more than doubts. Fill us in if you do use some of your time off to do what you mentioned, it could be interesting.

      • Robert Eckert

        That was Synthia Fagen who said “Your doubts are valid” struck a chord.

        • Bella Legosi

          Thank you! Now that you mention it I do remember her posting it now!
          🙂
          Much appreciated!

  • Erica

    I cannot get enough of these articles! So interesting, thank you.

  • WhereIsSHE

    With regard to the “even weirder” link Tony provided to the Forbes article detailing the IRS decision against what is most likely Wollersheim’s attempt to have an internet “religion” qualified, I note– on the subject of tax exempt status– that the law firm currently representing RTC in the Narconon GA case is proudly announcing the return of Sheldon M. Kay, Chief of Appeals at the IRS, on September 1st of this calendar year.

    *****
    ATLANTA, July 24, 2013 — Sutherland Asbill & Brennan LLP announced today that Sheldon M. Kay, Chief of Appeals at the Internal Revenue Service, will return to the firm as a partner in the Tax Practice Group, effective September 1, 2013. In his new position, Mr. Kay will focus on tax controversy issues, including IRS procedures, dispute resolutions and tax litigation matters.
    …..

    Mr. Kay’s government service now includes 20 years with the Internal Revenue Service and its Chief Counsel’s Office. As Chief of Appeals, Shelly led the IRS Appeals Office organization, which is tasked with resolving tax controversies, without litigation, on a basis which is fair and impartial to both the government and the taxpayer.
    *****

    While we don’t know where “our” SHELLY is (allegedly) “working hard for the Church”, we can predict that THIS “Shelly” may someday (soon, one can only hope) find himself neck-deep in (shit) work for Miscavige as well.

    And while we will know exactly where “Shelly Kay” will be burning the midnight oil, we still don’t know (for certain) where SHELLY MISCAVIGE is burning the candle (withering away in a gulag) at both ends.

    WHERE IS SHELLY?????

    • Sunny Sands

      I’m assuming that Sheldon Kay has to resign his position with the IRS to work for Sutherland, Asbill & Bennett. The quote didn’t make that too clear.

      Mr. Kay, you are dancing with the devil. It won’t end well.

      • WhereIsSHE

        Sheldon Kay was an attorney at the Sutherland firm long before he joined the IRS. It is not surprising that he would return to this firm after his tenure at the IRS.
        The TIMING of his return to this firm– which currently represents RTC in a case where the TRUE relationship between RTC and the Scientology front groups (ABLE. NARCANON, ETC, ETC, ETC) might finally be established in a court of law– coupled with the ever increasing TROUBLE that the entire COS-sha-bang is facing…
        Well, I have to say it caught my eye.
        Might just be a timing coincidence though.
        Only time (and my MAGIC-8-BALL) will tell;)

        • WhereIsSHE

          And yes, Sunny.
          He cannot work for both the IRS and for a private law firm.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Since Leah Remini is still in the news today, with the help of Paul Haggis speaking up in her support, I can’t help wondering if now other celebs who have left will unite by speaking up for her as well. Katie Holmes, Jason Beghe, Lisa Maria Presley, et al, where are you? Are they all going to leave the Remini family twisting in the wind or will they finally look at all the years that They gave resources, free publicity and support of this organization of human rights abuse and family disconnection and step up to the plate? All of these former celebs at one time put their entire selves into a concept of doing the right thing for something outside of themselves, something that would help a greater number of people than their own private inner circles of family and friends.

    I have to believe that their hearts were in the right place, like so many of us that supported scientology. Where is your passion and conviction now? What about all the families, the mothers, fathers, the chlidren still struggling inside this Truman show that are faltering on the edge right now, just needing a little more nudge from those that they looked up to, the celebs of scientology. Where are the Pied Pipers now? The silence out here is deafening.

    • BananaSplits8

      Long story short: scilon celebrities know that whatever critical attention is justifiably thrown at them, the majority of fans’ attention will be distracted by the next shiny object, often within the next 24-48 hours. Added is the added complicity of a few journalistic stooges who really should know better, such as Barbara “who are we to judge someone’s religion” Walters and ta-daaa, you have the following mantra:

      Keep your mouth shut and you’ll never be publicly answerable for anything.

  • Denise Brennan

    Gerry was a big help when I was getting out of scientology. He would listen to me, show me where to find things I sought and he offered me his friendship.

    I first met him when he was working with Omar on the biography early on and he showed me what he was doing.. He was a nice guy, friendly and i liked him then as well.

    Gerry and I may not agree on everything but I’m proud to call him my friend.

    With the possible exception of Paulette Cooper,I know of no one attacked harder and longer by organized scientology than Gerry. Yet he never gave up.

    Thank you Gerry.. you have my respect and my friendship.

    w/<3

    – Denise Brennan

    (Note: For the life of me I cannot figure how to post on here via discuss or facebook even though I have in the past???)

    • Tory Christman

      Fantastic, Denise and Gerry! See? That’s what $cientology cannot stop: Love. They can do all of their antics, but this started with Gerry, and continues to this day as witnessed by their attack on Leah Remini and Paul Haggis. “JON: If the cult had left Gerry alone, it is very
      possible that the debacle of the early 1980s, during which time about
      half of the membership left — would not have happened.”

      This is true for many people, to this day. I know I certainly was not going to picket, speak out OR make videos—until they hassled me enough and I realized “I have free speech, too”. (Now, thanks to their continued covert hassling and lies about me, my YouTube site, ToryMagoo44 has 10,000+ Subscribers and over 2 Million hits on those videos: Keep up the great work, OSA ops!)

      Look at Leah: now …my guess is thanks to $cientology’s continued creepy actions towards her and her friend Paul Haggis, she’s going to write a book! Way to go $cientology , and certainly way to go, Leah! Gerry, I thank you from the top and bottom of my heart. Justice IS coming..and guess what? You’re top on the list of those who deserve true justice re the Cult of $cientology and ALL of their sick abuses they have done to you, over the years. 🙂 Love to all Tory/Magoo

      • Tory Christman

        PS: I know most peeps here know this, but just in case you don’t, here are a few key actions that have helped. In the 90’s OSA tried, and totally FAILED to stop “ARS” the one newsgroup posting facts back then. IF they had just left that alone, too….thousands of “Critics” (People never “in” $cientology) would never have gotten interested. It was their/ $cientology’s own ACTIONS, posting a “Cancel Command” that spurred that on. Same in 2000—when they “Ordered Tom Cruise’s video off of YouTube”….What happened as a result of that?

        The arrival of Anonymous…and the beginning of a world wide picket in just about every major city in the world! Again…that spark started with THEIR stupid actions. Thanks to Anonymous, and the many people who came before them who began and built the very road they and others walk on (like Gerry, Jon Attack, Bent, Jesse Prince and on)….people around the world came out of the woodwork, wrote books, media began doing critical interviews…it was a stunning historical action that would change life re $cientology, forever, the same as Gerry’s original actions did. Now…thank you to Tony O for exposing SO much~! As I always say…Tick Tock….:)

        • shasha40

          See Tiny d*ck ,” You”, brought this in ! What are your Crimes ??? Thanks to your continued actions, More will know. Thanks Tory, you are in that bunch ! Kudos , for your you-tube channel !

          • Tory Christman

            Thank you, shasha40….it’s certainly a team effort, despite the many saying “we are not part of a group”. Correct, we are NOT….but cumulatively we sure as Hell KICK ASS. 🙂

            • aquaclara

              Tory, you are priceless. Love your postings today, as we get to see what happened when. You, Gerry, and so many more have given back so much, all to help the next one ready to exit from the cult. Thank you!!!

            • Tory Christman

              Thanks, aquaclara 🙂 I greatly appreciate your kind words! Isn’t it just THE best? Every day almost $cientology does another idiotic thing…showing who they *really* are, and why we who were “in” left, and why people who were never “in” care! And what shall they do next to “prove” how wrong we ALL are? LOLOL! How utterly ironic. Tick Tock, as I’ve said….time is on *our* side!! Love to ALL 🙂

            • shasha40

              Keep up the ass kicking , Tiny d*ck will soon be running! Tick , Tock ..

  • Artoo45

    Watching the slow, inevitable crumbling of corporate Scientology (and hopefully, the whole blighted con job), I can’t help but think of all the people whose lives have been so horribly affected by the cult. Mr. Armstrong is one of those people. I don’t know him personally, but I see a man who has never wavered in his stance against the cult, and a person who has stood his ground in spite of the terrible reversals of fortune it brought him. I remember reading about him when I first discovered ARS in 1998 and began devouring everything I could find on the cult. The information he provided to critics about Hubbard’s life, has been some of the most damning (and delicious).

    The day he comes back to the United States without fear of retribution will be a geat day. There will be caek.

    As for the Wollershiem article. Hmmmmm, it sounds like someone might be hoping to produce a coup de grace to the heart of the church at a time of horriffic publicity. By creating a “church” that is basically the CoS by a different name and being turned down by the IRS, he could make a very devastating point that could be used in future litigation. Or, maybe not. I have a feeling that Tony will succeed in getting to the bottom of all this far better than Forbes did.

    A lovely day for a clambake . . . .

    • Espiando

      Best of all, the clams are already steamed before baking, especially these days.

    • USA MRIID

      “The day he comes back to the United States without fear of retribution will be a geat day. There will be caek.”

      I sure hope so, in fact all us SPs should put together a major party in GA’s honor.

  • David Slappy

    after reading OTVIII I think I’m powerful enough to get them flood-gates to open. I hear the oaties brought down the Berlin wall, so this should be a piece of pee

    • Bella Legosi

      Take a deep breath……..do you feel evil BTs giving you pneumonia?
      😉

    • Robert Eckert

      A piece of pee? Reminds me of “2010” where the Russian cosmonaut says something is “a piece of pie” and an American corrects him “Cake: it’s a piece of cake”; then later he says something is “easy as cake” and is corrected “Pie: it’s easy as pie”. It is so easy to get metaphors balled up. The dominoes are falling like a house of cards: checkmate!

      • David Slappy

        I just didn’t want to say ‘a piece of piss’, which is what they say in Ireland/UK

  • Artoo45

    “Buy the Ducati.”

    And a new meme is born . . .

  • Sidney18511

    Don’t know if posted already but this is the link to Larry Wollershime’s online COS copycat religion.

    http://universespirit.org/

  • David Slappy

    waddup with lady on the left. Obvious SP, not appreciating da Commodore’s gifts – after all he’s done for mankind

    • Mark

      LRH had just farted.

      • Mark

        Or burped…

        • i-Betty

          Hilarious! ‘Badaburp’ has just entered the burping lexicon 😀

          • Mark

            Thankyou 🙂

  • Papa Xenu

    There’s a really interesting video that I came across on YouTube (a longtime ago) in which Mike Rinder is sitting at a picnic table talking with Gerry Armstrong. The quality is very poor because it was secretly being recorded without Gerry’s knowledge. Basically Rinder (then OSA agent) is acting as though he & some other executives want to conduct a coup d’état to oust Miscavige & are seeking Armstrong’s help. From what I remember Armstrong is offering some suggestions/advice about how to accomplish this coup.
    Anyone interested in seeing these videos just type in “Gerry Armstrong & Mike Rinder”. This will give you video titles such as “Day Three. Enter Mike Rinder. & Day Four. Mike Rinder Returns”. You will also get the church’s PI surveillance videos of Gerry.
    ******If someone has a direct line to Tony Ortega, perhaps they can let him know about these videos so he can post them as they would really be insightful & interesting for the series he is doing on Armstrong (& the church in general).******

    • Aslansown

      I think the best way is to email him at the address above.

    • Robert Eckert

      Those videos have come up on Tony’s board before. I’m sure that whole episode will be discussed as Jon Atack lays out the story in proper chronological order.

      • Papa Xenu

        Thanks, I kind of wondered that. I thought it may have been back in the Voice days.

    • RMycroft

      Is this the version that Scientology hacked up and edited, and the judge basically said “Are you fucking kidding me?”

      • Papa Xenu

        I’m not sure. I watched the video a long time ago, but I can see the church hacking it up to fit their agenda. Knowing the church, they probably did a horrible job editing the video & then were ‘outraged’ when they were called on it, claiming religious bigotry. It seems that whenever they get caught breaking the law, (i.e., defrauding the court &/or manipulating the facts to support their argument) they resort to crying “religious persecution”. Apparently, (according to the C of S), fraud, evidence/witness tampering & committing perjury are sacred tenets of their religion & thus should be respected & protected under the constitution.

    • KNMF

      The funny thing is that in that fair-gaming surveillance video, Gerry was imploring Rinder to do EXACTLY what Rathbun and Rinder eventually did. He told them how to set up reform and how to expose Miscavige and the cult’s human rights violations, 25 years ago, while they were viciously attacking him and spying on him. They eventually did exactly what Gerry suggested, but they will never admit that Hubbard was a liar.

  • Does anyone know where I can get more info on this Arthur J. Burks guy and his relationship with Hubbard? Google search came up short.

  • ze moo

    Visit the ‘Rocket Scientologist’.

    http://www.pidjin.net/2013/07/24/rocket-scientologist/

  • 0tessa

    So the Sea Org people (zealots and fanatics) are just a trampoline …
    Interesting. Guess who is trampling on them now.

  • i-Betty

    Phew, I’ve just finished reading through DM’s deposition of July 1990. Ms Plevin was great; so unruffled by the other side’s blustering and bull, and managing to get in a few funny, sarcastic digs along the way. I would have been tearing my hair out after 30 minutes. Marty is referred to throughout as Marty Rathman. This was part 1 / day 1 – and ended prematurely when the air-con broke down. I’d love to track down part 2.

    DM is not good under direct questioning, and needs his hand held throughout by his phalanx of attorneys.

    • Lark Smith

      What struck me was how poorly educated DM truly is: a 10th grade education, no GED or business classes. It is shocking that he heads a cherch with over a billion dollars in assets. Maybe that’s the foundation of his “bromance” with TC. Ms. Plevin was great under fire.

    • AnonymousSP

      I’m going to enjoy watching tiny fists under questioning when the TVs are allowed in the courtroom for his big, upcoming trial. If it gets on CNN I hope they put Nancy Grace on the desk.

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        Battle of the loons. There’s not enough popcorn in the world…

        • WhereIsSHE

          Agreed.
          She engaged in prosecutorial misconduct. It is of record.

          But just have someone explain to her the whole “Jesus was an IMPLANT” thing, and watch her foam at the mouth like a rabid raccoon. (She already sports the perfect raccoon-eye eyeliner, so why not help her on her way to full-on raccoon-hood.)
          David Miscavige will be her new Casey Anthony; her new Jodi Arias.

          But, as I stated above…
          I do not see any circumstance under which any lawyer representing RTC or MissManage, himself who would dare to put him on the stand.

      • Robert Eckert

        How about a team of Nancy Grace and Greta van Susteren? See if they start pulling out each other’s hair!

    • Robert Eckert

      What do you mean? I thought David Miscavige gave clear, concise explanations of everything!

      WHAT IS A MISSION? OKAY. WELL, YOU HAVE A SITUATION AND A SITUATION IS DEFINED AS A DEPARTURE, MAJOR DEPARTURE FROM THE IDEAL SCENE, AND AT THE BOTTOM OF THAT THERE’S SOME Y. Y IS DEFINED AS AN EXPLANATION THAT OPENS A DOOR TO A HANDLING, AND

      IF YOU HAVE ACTUALLY PULLED THE STRINGS ON THE SITUATION, ALL THE WAY DOWN, YOU WILL NOW HAVE A Y, WHICH MEANS THAT THAT SITUATION CAN BE RESOLVED.

      A MISSION WOULD TAKE A SITUATION, KNOWING WHAT THE Y IS, AND THEREFORE, KNOWING WHAT EXACT HANDLING STEPS ARE THUS POSSIBLE AS A RESULT OF THE DOOR BEING OPENED BECAUSE THE Y WAS FOUND BY EVALUATION, AND THEY WOULD BE ON — THEY WOULD OPERATE ON WHAT IS KNOWN AS A SET OF MISSION ORDERS, AND THE SET OF MISSION ORDERS IS AN EXACT SERIES OF STEPS, SOMETIMES CONSECUTIVE, SOMETIMES NOT, SOMETIMES THEY CAN BE DONE CONCURRENTLY WITHIN EACH OTHER. THEY ARE NUMBERED IN EACH STEP.

      THEY LIST OUT THE PRECISE ACTIONS THAT THESE PERSONS WOULD DO, KNOWING, OF COURSE, THAT ONCE THEY ARE PERFORMING THEM, THEY ARE TO BE SENSIBLE ABOUT WHAT THEY’RE DOING, IF THEY COME UPON ANY OTHER INFORMATION, AND THEY NEED TO RESOLVE SUCH MATTERS TO ACCOMPLISH THEIR MISSION PURPOSE. THESE MISSION ORDERS HAVE AN EXACT PURPOSE TO BE ACCOMPLISHED, EXACT MAJOR TARGETS, EXACT PRIMARY TARGETS EXACT VITAL TARGETS, EXACT OPERATING TARGETS; THEY HAVE LISTED THE MEANS OF MISSION COMMUNICATION, AND THEY ALSO HAVE LISTED THE TARGET DATE FOR COMPLETION.

      THE MISSIONAIRES — THERE WOULD BE A SERIES OF PEOPLE SELECTED TO DO THIS. IDEALLY AT LEAST TWO, AND HIGHER, GENERALLY YOU WOULD THINK TWO TO THREE, ALTHOUGH AT TIMES YOU MIGHT HAVE AN ADDITIONAL MISSIONAIRE KNOWN AS AN INSURANCE MISSIONAIRE. THEY WOULD READ THESE MISSION ORDERS. THEY WOULD READ ANY APPROPRIATE MATERIALS THAT WERE RELEVANT TO THESE MISSION ORDERS SO THAT THEY WERE THOROUGHLY SKILLED IN WHAT SITUATION THEY WOULD BE DEALING WITH. THEY WOULD ALSO REVIEW THEIR MAJOR TARGETS AND HAVE TO DEMONSTRATE THEM IN CLAY TO GIVE A PERFECT EXAMPLE THAT THEY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH, AND THAT WAS IN AGREEMENT WITH WHAT THEIR MISSION OPERATIONS WANTED THEM TO ACCOMPLISH AND WHAT WAS STATED ON THE MISSION ORDERS.

      AT SUCH A POINT AS ALL THIS BRIEFING WAS COMPLETED, THEY WOULD THEN FIRE AND THEY WOULD BE OPERATED WHEREBY THEY WOULD REPORT ON THEIR OT TARGETS, DONE, IP, BUG, AND THE MISSION OPS WOULD KEEP TRACK OF THESE MISSION TARGETS THAT WE DONE IP OR BUG, AND MAKE SURE THAT THEIR MISSION STAY DEBUGGED, THAT THEY COMPLETED THEIR MISSION TARGETS, THAT THEY ACCOMPLISHED THEIR MISSION PURPOSE AND ACHIEVED THE MAJOR TARGETS OF THEIR MISSION, AT WHICH POINT THEY RETURNED HOME.

      • Mark

        Good grief! Fidel flaming Castro is a model of brevity and clarity compared to this dreck.

        • WhereIsSHE

          I love that you use “dreck” in your posts=)

      • i-Betty

        Hur hur 😛

      • coonellie

        I”m sorry, could you repeat that? I wasn’t paying attention 😉

      • aboutandout

        I now understand why Erlich says you need to be stoned, a bottle of whiskey wouldn’t even begin to help you comprehend this.

      • WhereIsSHE

        THIS is why he will NEVER testify in open court before a jury.
        You don’t even have to go after him full on after he gives some ridiculous, incomprehensible answer. (other times, he just comes off as “HERO of the STOOOOOPID!”, because he either doesn’t “get”, or pretends not to understand, the meaning of words that pretty much anyone with a high school–or less–education readily comprehends)

        You CAN, and sometimes, you SHOULD go after him like a Pit bull.
        But mostly, you can just let him dig his own verbal grave.

        WHAT AN UNMITIGATED FOOL he is!
        WHAT A COMPLETE NUTJOB he is when looked at through the eyes and heard through the ears of the non-indoctrinated!!
        WHAT A TOTAL NIGHTMARE FOR COUNSEL who have to *DEAL* with him, on ANY level!!! (And yes.. I agree. THEY DESERVE to have to *DEAL* with HIM!!!!!)

        He comes across as ARROGANT (which juries DETEST), and as someone who is seeking to OBSTRUCT JUSTICE (which juries DETEST even more).

        NOT a witness you want on the stand if you are representing the corporate entity, RTC.
        NOT even a witness you want on the stand if you are representing him personally!

        I assure you that they discuss him –and what a LIABILITY he is to their case should he ever be a witness, in any venue– when he is not present.
        I 100% GUARANTY it. (They actually have an obligation to discuss HOW a potential witness might “appear” and take that into consideration re: whether or not to put said witness on the stand– or how, if possible, to limit the scope of said witness’ testimony in order to avoid a blood bath. That is just par-for-the-course in litigation. But the problem is… how do you report to the “client” that HE is the major problem with your case and still collect all of those fees/hope to secure future “business” with him??? Not so easy to do.)

        The manner in which they (the attorneys) conducted themselves during that deposition was SHAMEFUL.
        The judge should have been phoned from the deposition on Day 1, much closer to the beginning.
        Get it on the record that the judge was requested to order a ruling on (appropriate) questions that the lawyers presenting him were “consulting” with their client–and obstructing the process by leaving the room with their client– as soon as possible, once it became an obvious pattern of abuse of the process.
        Why? Because otherwise, you have a ridiculously long Motion to Strike/Motion to Compel for the judge to consider, and most judges are not going to rule on the propriety of literally hundreds of deposition questions/hundreds of objections/instructions to not answer.

        DAVEY-
        They smile at your face, and they take the money (lots and lots of money), but trust your gut: THEY ARE MAKING FUN OF YOU and THEY ARE JUST “BEING SENSITIVE” (LYING TO YOUR FACE)WHEN THEY APPEAR TO NOT BE MAKING FUN OF YOU.(PSST… THEY ARE MAKING FUN OF YOU!!!!!)

        They might not care where Shelly is…
        But WE DO.

        WHERE IS SHELLY, YOU STUPID, LITTLE BEING?????

        • John P.

          I don’t believe Miscavige’s logorrhea and other bad behavior in this deposition is a function of his pretending not to understand what’s thrown at him. This particular snippet of the transcript is perhaps a “greatest hits” quote, but I glanced at the rest of the depo earlier and there are a lot more bizarre statements.

          When you look at this deposition, the famous Nightline interview, and some of the transcribed “orders” that Marty Rathbun published on his blog a year or so ago, you get a sense that this is a guy who is somewhere close to functionally illiterate, brimming with undiagnosed mental disorders, and who is so deathly afraid of being called out as a charlatan and a fool that he spews forth this “word salad” in an attempt to obfuscate the issue. Given that he is surrounded by nitwits who think this is all brilliance, he rarely gets called on it.

          Regardless of the actual pathology, I don’t think Miscavige is clever enough to stay a few steps ahead of people trying to grill him. He relies on bullying and intimidation in the moment, not on thinking ahead, even as far ahead as the next sentence. I do not believe the guy can put together a logical four-sentence argument to “sell” a simple concept the way a reasonably sharp eighth grader could.

          • Robert Eckert

            There’s the time he is handed a document he doesn’t recognize, and is asked to look it over and answer whether it describes the duties of a “Commodore’s Messenger”, and he desperately tries to cover up that he can’t read it.

            • Proud to be an SP

              He actually cannot read? Or are you joking?

            • Robert Eckert

              I would doubt he’s totally illiterate, but it seems that he is very slow at it, and can’t just look at the document and see what it is talking about.

          • WhereIsSHE

            JP-

            Here, IMO, is a CLASSIC example, because witnesses answer these questions, with ease, every single day. (People who serves on juries, no matter their level of education, undoubtedly understand these very basic, introductory questions that Miscavige has such difficulty in “GETTING”. He either cannot answer until he hears the word “enroll”, because “take” is too abstract a word for him, OR… he is clearly trying to obstruct the process. So… either DUMB or DISINGENUOUS–or both):

            Q. HAVE YOU TAKEN ANY BUSINESS COURSES, MR. MISCAVIGE?

            A. I WOULDN’T KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS.

            Q. HAVE YOU TAKEN ANY COURSES IN COMMUNITY COLLEGES OR COLLEGES OR BUSINESS SCHOOLS REGARDING MANAGEMENT PRINCIPLES?

            A. YOU MEAN PUBLIC SCHOOLS?

            Q. IN ANY SCHOOL.

            A. I’M NOT SURE I GET IT YET.

            Q. WHAT IS IT THAT YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND, MR. MISCAVIGE?

            A. WELL, I THINK I KNOW A LOT ABOUT BUSINESS, BUT I DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU’RE ASKING ME.

            Q. DID YOU EVER ENROLL IN ANY COURSES IN ANY BUSINESS SCHOOLS?

            A. NO.

            Q. DID YOU EVER ENROLL —

            A. NO.

            Q. OKAY. YOU ARE A MEMBER OF THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY?

            A. YES.

            • Studious Judious

              This is precisely the kind of annoying delay tactics that DM uses throughout this entire deposition.

            • Aslansown

              I know. I couldn’t even finish the thing.

            • Ruby

              Can I give an upvote twice to this statement?

            • Aslansown

              It will only let you do it once. So you can do it and I’ll upvote it too! I wanted to scream when I was reading it.

            • WhereIsSHE

              True. It is the most frustrating transcript I have ever perused.

            • Proud to be an SP

              I gave you all an up vote, Where, Aslan, and Ruby. I was amazed at Ms Previn’s patience.

            • John P.

              It sure sounds to me like on this one he’s a moron who is trying to sound as clever as lawyers he’s watched in action. It’s vaguely reminiscent of Bill Clinton’s famous answer of “that depends on what your definition of the word ‘is’ is,” though Clinton knew exactly why he was answering the question the way he did — he didn’t just say that to obstruct the process randomly. I am sure that Miscavige had absolutely no strategic thinking behind being difficult in answering the question; he was trying to make himself feel like the smartest guy in the room by emulating something he’d seen a lawyer do in the past.

              Somebody who was effective at obstruction would probably have done a more clever job picking a question to push back on and would have probably done a better job of appearing to be cooperative while still not following the rules. All this does is make him look like an idiot.

            • WhereIsSHE

              I think you’ve hit this little nail right on his little head.

              I get the impression that he deals with underlings in a similar manner.
              Can you imagine having to report to a “superior” in a business or professional setting who played these kinds of stupid word games?
              How anyone, even the brainwashed, can tolerate the stupidity is beyond comprehension.
              That they laud and applaud this moron is just too much bear.

            • grundoon

              When asked about “courses,” Miscavige thought only of Scientology courses, and honestly didn’t know which Scientology courses the question could refer to. He was totally ignorant of colleges and what people do there, and perhaps had never heard the term “business school.” His “training” in business and management principles was solely from Hubbard, who wrote and spoke voluminously on the subject.

      • Ruby

        wow…
        thank you for posting that…I think? 🙂
        I can never make it past 10 seconds of hearing him speak…and it is even more ridiculous when you actually see it in writing! WhereIsSHE is totally correct! This IS why he cannot ever testify…he is an idiot!

      • Proud to be an SP

        Wow is right. What an incredible jumble of words.

        • q-bird

          I know!!! —> FTWhaaa??? Stud Puppet speaks Gobbledygook.

          pass the clay over would ya?

          gotta demo me some Crap-O-la…

          at which point whereby my perfect ideally mission is accomplished through agreement handled completely on exact major primary vital AND brief OT targets, purposely THOROUGHLY SKILLED and resolution returned of course in this situation. Okay, well…. done bugs!

      • grundoon

        In the section you quoted, David Miscavige is indeed giving a clear concise explanation of a subject he knew very well: his own former posts as Mission Ops and Action Chief. He is not obfuscating, but rather is explaining as clearly as possible. One must consider that the language in which he speaks is the peculiar jargon of those who hold such posts: Sea Org cant, or Hubspeak. Miscavige was steeped in Hubspeak from childhood and never learned plain English.

        The court reporter transcribes phonetically and gets some words wrong, “Y” should be “WHY.” “OT TARGETS” is, I think, “OP TARGETS,” i.e. what the Sea Org missionaires were sent to accomplish.

        “THE WHY WAS FOUND BY EVALUATION” refers to a written analysis (usually done by a “PROGRAMS CHIEF” at Flag Command Bureaux) following detailed Hubbard policies, where the evaluator is supposed to read the reports from the field, figure out why things are going wrong in the “SITUATION” and what should be done to fix it (the “HANDLING”). For a wonderful vignette about how this worked in practice in the Apollo days under Hubbard (a little before Miscavige’s time), read http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?10103-The-old-days-Aboard-the-Apollo-1973

        The missionaires are given a list of objectives to accomplish, and they would report their progress back to Miscavige every day or more frequently. He would keep track of which numbered targets were DONE, which ones were IP (In Progress), and which ones were delayed due to some difficulty (BUG). “MISSION OPERATIONS” was Miscavige’s job title at the time, usually abbreviated MISSION OPS, and the job was to give moment-by-moment orders (from headquarters) to the missionaires and keep track of their progress. Per Hubbard’s policy, the missionaires themselves are not supposed to decide what to do – they act on the Mission Orders prepared and drilled in advance, and are controlled from day to day by the MISSION OPS at headquarters.

        Miscavige’s explanation of how he did his own job during his rise to power is thus of great interest.

      • ElDroneHubbub

        Whenever I’ve read transcripts of DM’s words or seen video of him speaking to Scientologists, he always sounds like this — sometimes even less clear.

        Do people listen to this crap and think something brilliant is going on?

        • Artoo45

          That’s how Hubbard go rich, Bafflegab Tech, the Emperor’s New Language™.

    • Studious Judious

      I read through both parts two weeks ago. Very eye opening as to DM’s level of communication when he must speak for himself with no Dan Sherman’s around.

      I’ve put the links for both parts.

      Note this is a long and annoying read. It is obvious DM is being difficult to depose. I hope anyone intending on deposing DM has read through this.

      http://www.davidmiscavige.wikiscientology.org/text/Deposition_of_David_Miscavige,_the_Witness,_July_19,_1990_-_Part_1
      http://www.davidmiscavige.wikiscientology.org/text/Deposition_of_David_Miscavige,_the_Witness,_July_19,_1990_-_Part_2

    • USA MRIID

      Another good document to find on the Internet is “day 4” which the crime syndicate *really* wants to eliminate from the public record. I have a copy of it, it’s posted all over but the complete “day 4” still is not easy to find.

  • Jefferson Hawkins

    By the way, the frizzy-haired gal in red standing directly behind Hubbard is famous Facebook Thought Police-person Jojo Zawawi.

    • Espiando

      Looks more like the late, great Andrea True when she was at the top of her game. Maybe we’ve found the origin of certain people’s obsessions with sucking cock on Hollywood Boulevard.

      • AnonymousSP

        you bad! but then again, you right!

      • Espiando

        Okay, who downvoted me? Was that you, Jojo? Did I accidentally blow your cover on your “secret trips to the Valley” in the 70s to get money for your Bridge? Or are you planning to make a surprise comeback with MILFs Go Out-2D #45, and I spoiled it?

        Oh, well, whoever did it, go suck cock on Hollywood Boulevard.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      OK, for those who were there (or knew someone who was), what was the deal with the randomly strewn flowers? It’s a motif that I have noted in the photos that adorn the Volunteer’s Minister Handbook from about the same time period. Here they appear on the “pulpit” in the first photo (complete with what appear to be attached price tags/labels), and sort of dropped on the table in the wedding supper scene.

      Also couldn’t help but note that the wedding table is thoughtfully supplied with a packet of smokes (on the right). Some things never change…

      • Mark

        The flowers seem to be just a pair of rather stingy bouquets – resting out of the way on the lectern in the first picture, and then in front of the brides in the second. Maybe they were hastily brought on board at whichever Mediterranean port the ship had last called. The ciggies (Pall Mall) seem to be Pat Broeker’s – and I think you can just spot a packet of Tublard’s favourite Kools head-on next to his ashtray.

        I shall now go and get a life.

      • Sunny Sands

        If I remember correctly, random flowers, especially wildflowers, was something of a theme of that era. Some brides even had a crown of them in place of a veil. It was about the same time as the term “flower child” came into use.

      • Sidney18511

        The flowers? They are love-er-ly cult deco. So theta!

      • pronoia

        Merely a quaint custom of the era known as the 70s.

      • Ruby

        Not price tags…they are being held in place with duct tape! Classy!

      • USA MRIID

        It’s a symbol for randomly spewed Body Thetans after the fusion explosions packed around the volcanoes long before the Earth was actually formed.

    • Sunny Sands

      That afro is massive even by 1970s standards.

    • grundoon

      Can anyone identify the rest of the people in the photo?

  • The Dakini

    Yay ABC NEWS!!!

    Unlike 20/20 or Dateline, ABC Nightly news covered the Leah’s story and the news that she will be writing a tell all. I’d say the story was a good 3 minutes long. Covering her exit, the reasons, her sister’s comments, and Leah herself commenting during an industry event.

    Most telling was the church’s comment. Not on Leah, but Paul Haggis. Saying his open letter was an attempt by a power hungry writer, to draw attention to himself. Abc seemed to be pretty direct about the reporting. Looks like whatever slimy little finger the church has had in ABC’s biz, the grip is finally slipping.

    • Sidney18511

      Paul Haggis write an open letter to Leah and the COS has to stick their nose in there and respond to a letter that was NOT “addressed” to them. They are losing their marbles. People that really didn’t pay attention to scientology are now VERY AWARE and fascinated by the crazy cult next door.

    • Jeb Burton

      I wish she would sit down and do an in depth interview. But all we are going to get is snippets. We are going to have to pay for her full story. I guess you cant take the scientologist out of the scientologist. For them, Its always about money.

      • Sunny Sands

        I’m OK paying for her full story in a book. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, though.

  • Sunny Sands

    What else seems off about the wedding party photo: Hubbard is stealing the limelight away from the bridal couples.

    • Ruby

      I TOTALLY noticed that too! He is sitting at the head of the table, the place which should be featuring the Bride(s) and Groom(s).

    • grundoon

      Standing Order #1: All of the limelight, all of the time, is always reserved for Hubbard.

      You let a speck of limelight fall on you at your peril.

  • Observer
  • KJP in Portland

    Off topic…I wonder if there are any tunneling attempts going on at The Hole, like Stalag 17? But, I think they believe they DESERVE being in there, as brainwashed as some of them are. I’m sure there is a goodly number that also think ‘what the hell did I get myself in to?’

    • Espiando

      Doubtful. There’s no one there left that’s as cool as William Holden.

      By the way, downvoting military vets like KJP and me is probably the suckiest thing you can do, Scibots. KJP’s real navy trumps your fake one. It’s also not good public relations. Why don’t you go distribute Way To Happiness pamphlets to our troops in Afghanistan? If they don’t make you “go exterior” using Audit Method RJ-45, the locals will.

      • KJP in Portland

        🙂 Thank you! (USS ENTERPRISE CVN-65)

        • Nevermore

          Argh, I am sooooo jealous of someone who can say they served on the Enterprise – yes, sad Trekkie, I know, but I don’t care! Add that to your downvote, and you are doing very well for yourself! 😉

    • KJP in Portland

      I got a ‘down vote’! I’m honored! 🙂

  • KJP in Portland

    <— Navy veteran. Hubbard's yacht was a scow, a really rundown scow. Couldn't he afford better with all the millions he had back then?

    • DodoTheLaser

      Good point. “Financial Planning” has its priorities though, you know.

      • KJP in Portland

        TYVM 🙂 I guess ol’ LRH had all the financial angles figured out with his little con-game.

        • KJP in Portland

          I should’ve said, being an accountant myself, LRH would’ve made a good ‘dirty’, ‘cook the books’ beancounter, kinda like ENRON (remember them? And ol’ Mr. Skilling and his subsequent trip to the penitentiary?)

  • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

    To answer your question about Gerry venturing over here, I wouldn’t, if I were him.

    Not unless OSA disbands, and offers a public apology, and/or a Scientology lawyer sends Gerry an apology, I wouldn’t cross the border if I were him.

    The irreligious cold war defensive Hubbard mentality that’s in OSA’s brains and has to dry up first.

  • USA MRIID

    “…who avoids stepping foot in the United States because of a legal history that is almost too outlandish to believe”

    We are a country where Christian terrorists in the White House commit war crime atrocities and crimes against humanity, and yet the heroes, the American patriots that do their duty as Americans and expose the Christian terrorism and USA PATRIOT Act treason against America are the ones who go to prison.

  • USA MRIID

    “…and, because Hubbard went into deep hiding at this time, he was unavailable to rescind the order.”

    ROFL! Yeah, and Hubbard shit his pants when he found out that somebody had acquired a copy of his freakish sexual problems spelled out in this “Admissions” notes to himself. 🙂 Imagine what that fucking insane drug addled loon must have felt when he was finally told that the journal was in someone else’s possession. 🙂

  • USA MRIID

    “His only active service was a 55-hour battle against a magnetic deposit
    off the coast of Oregon, followed by shelling a Mexican island, after
    which he was removed from command.”

    Don’t forget that the insane conman also shot up his own radar mast using his own deck gun after “showing the loyal crew” how to re-assemble a deck gun. 🙂 The drug-addled dimwit also filed amusingly freakish “after contact” reports after destroying the magnetic deposit and got a written reprimand for trying to pretend he was an author as well as a sea captain.

  • USA MRIID

    I had a Canadian Scientology loon from a.r.s send me four neck ties in a cardboard package claiming to be from
    Gerry Armstong, they were delivered to the Navy weapons testing facility
    at Point Magoo where I worked, prompting the Navy to dismantle the package under water as a possible destructive device.

    The package was addressed from Gerry Armstrong’s church, to me at Point Magoo. That — amid other reasons — prompted the Navy to test whether the package was dangerous. The package ended up being shipped to Gerry after the Navy and FBI was finished with it, and after the Scientology loon was contacted by Navy intelligence officers, after which the insane Scientology loon dropped off of a.r.s and dropped out of the Internet all together so far as anyone on a.r.s could tell.

    Painted neck ties which were deemed a threat by the Navy. THAT is the level of sheer insanity that the Scientology buttfucks engage in.

  • Cygnus X-1

    Don’t know if I can given that my account seems to be in use by …. someone … possibly me … or not.

  • Dave Roberts

    Aleister Crowley and how Satanism is a foundational belief in Scientology;

    http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Scientology/aleister_crowley.htm

    Dave