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Jon Atack Helps Us Remember Scientology’s “Religious Freedom Crusade”

JulieCTJon Atack is the author of A Piece of Blue Sky, one of the very best books on L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology. He now has a new edition of the book out, and on Saturdays he’s helping us sift through the legends, myths, and contested facts about Scientology that tend to get hashed and rehashed in books, articles, and especially on the Internet.

Yesterday, we pointed out that Scientology is pulling out all the stops for today’s grand opening of a new “Ideal Org” in Portland, Oregon. For some reason, church leader David Miscavige seems to believe that these manufactured events somehow can help Scientology with its miserable public relations problem. (They won’t.) But there’s something about Portland that Miscavige would like to capitalize on — it does have a special place in church history. We decided to ask Jon Atack to help us understand that.

Jon, who was Julie Christofferson-Titchbourne (pictured at right, with her attorney Garry McMurry), and why was her lawsuit in Portland so important?

JON: Julie Christofferson spent her tuition fees for college on Scientology, believing that it would give her marketable skills. When she found that it didn’t, she asked for her money back. What she didn’t realize was that asking for a refund makes you “Fair Game,” as L. Ron Hubbard explained: “The ex-student should realize this makes him Fair Game” (HCOPL 5 APRIL 1965, HCO Sec Hat HCO JUSTICE DATA RE ACADEMY & HGC).

So a simple refund request for a few thousand dollars turned into a nightmare battle. Here’s what Blue Sky says about it…

The suit had originally been filed in 1977 and arose out of a claim for a refund of some $3,000 dollars. Julie Christofferson had become involved with Scientology in 1975, when she was 17. She had taken Scientology courses in place of a college course in engineering, and had spent her college money in doing so. She claimed that fraudulent representations had been made to her about the value of Scientology qualifications, and the changes that Scientology counseling and training would bring to her. Her original Complaint charged outrageous conduct, the infliction of severe emotional distress and fraud.

It was the third time that the case had been brought to trial. In 1979, Christofferson-Titchbourne had been awarded $2.1 million. In 1982, the ruling had been overturned by the appellate court, dismissing the claim of outrageous conduct, but also striking the evidence of several Scientology witnesses.

The 1980s rift in Scientology had started after the appellate decision. Thousands had either left or been expelled from the Church. Among them were many valuable witnesses, and since the [1984 Gerry] Armstrong case there was a greater willingness to go on record. Bill Franks, who had been Executive Director International in 1981, and had controlled the purge of the Guardian’s Office, took the stand and when asked by the Church’s attorney whether he had thought Scientology created “mindless robots,” he responded, “not at the outset.” When asked his current opinion he replied, “Absolutely.” He complained about the manipulation of members, and the ludicrously high cost of Scientology. Franks said abandoning Scientology had been the hardest move of his whole life. He maintained that most Scientology staff members are decent people, but added, “Scientology plays on decency. That’s the whole hook.”

The details of a Guardian’s Office operation were put into evidence. “Operation Christo” had been aimed at Julie Christofferson Titchbourne, her family and even a Lutheran minister….

Martin Samuels gave devastating testimony. As the head of the Mission involved in the case, he had been a principal witness in the earlier trial. His life had been torn apart after the San Francisco Mission Holders’ Conference in 1982. By the time of the new trial, he had brought his own case against Hubbard, also in Portland, for $72 million. Before testifying, he was denied immunity from criminal prosecution for committing perjury at the 1979 Christofferson trial. On the stand, he said representations made by him that his Portland Mission had not been connected to the national Scientology organization were false. He also said that Scientology witnesses had been coached to lie before the original trial, in what he called a “witness college.” In the original trial, the Church had carefully constructed a fabric of lies, just as they had proposed to do in the Guardian’s Office trial before Meisner’s surrender to the FBI.

Defense witnesses testified to the benefits of Scientology on their lives. The Church claimed that their First Amendment rights were being violated, and that religion was being put on trial. On May 18, 1985, after two days of deliberation, the jury awarded $39 million dollars in damages: $20 million against Hubbard, $17.5 million against the Church of Scientology of California, and $1.5 million against the Church of Scientology Mission of Davis.

During the trial, the Scientologists had waged an advertising blitz in newspapers and on local radio and television stations and this continued with the “Crusade for Religious Freedom.” Two jurors told the press that the advertising had not influenced their decision. Jurors also claimed that they had not been influenced by threatening phone calls they had received during the trial from callers claiming to be Scientologists.

A Church spokeswoman told the press, “This is a bizarre plot to destroy the Church. They [the jurors] decided that religion as practiced by Scientology is not protected by the Constitution. Throughout the case we demonstrated beyond a doubt the government’s involvement in a conspiracy against the Church.”

Scientology attorneys immediately moved for a mistrial. Within a few days, bus-loads of Scientologists were arriving in Portland to protest the decision. A candlelit parade was arranged, and Scientologist celebrities, including John Travolta, gave talks. A Church spokesman’s estimate that half a million protesters would turn up proved to be grossly exaggerated: Chick Corea performed to a crowd of about 2,000 Scientologists in Portland. For weeks, protesters marched in front of the Courthouse, calling themselves the “Crusade for Religious Freedom,” and carrying banners proclaiming “Save Freedom of Religion” and “Restore the Bill of Rights.” The protesters listened to vehement speeches given by Scientology officials, and punctuated them with choruses of “We shall overcome.” The rhetoric of Church spokespeople was strident: “This is akin to burning a witch, to nailing somebody to a cross – an outright attempt to exterminate a religious group,” for example. It was said that deprogrammers had turned Julie Christofferson-Titchbourne into a “mindless robot.”

The Scientologists kept up what seemed to be senseless pressure. Nonetheless, trial Judge Donald Londer’s decision, given two months after the jury ruling, came as a surprise. He declared a mistrial, on the grounds that he had failed to strike remarks made by Christofferson-Titchbourne’s attorney that Scientology was not a religion from the record. Consequently, it had been represented to the jury that they could punish Scientology for purely religious beliefs. He also criticized the attorney’s characterization of Scientology as a terrorist group and of Hubbard as a sociopath.

The Church was triumphant.

 
THE BUNKER: Her case was happening at the same time as the Lawrence Wollersheim lawsuit in Los Angeles. We’ve always thought what made these two lawsuits so dangerous for the church was that it was Scientology’s processes that were on trial. Are we right about that?

JON: Yes, litigants tend to ask for their PC folders — which have always been mysteriously lost, quite often in a far off country — and to put embarrassing material into court. The cult was highly susceptible to its OT materials being exhibited. Wollersheim in particular was asserting that his mental health had been severely affected by “processing.”

THE BUNKER: We figure most people have probably forgotten that her case went back so far, into the late 1970s. But the timing of the verdict was crucial — would you say the “Crusade” helped Miscavige consolidate his power after a bruising few years when he was taking control?

JON: I think that is a fair observation. Hubbard agreed with Hitler that an enemy is a necessity if you are to unite your following, and Christofferson and Wollersheim gave a focus outside the cult. Given that Miscavige never produced any authority that allowed him to take over — and that he was only a lowly midshipman in the Sea Org — the second Mission Holders’ Conference, in 1982, and these high profile suits gave him a platform.

THE BUNKER: Is there any obvious reason why the Crusade would have succeeded in Portland, but then a year later failed when the same strategy was tried in Los Angeles with the Wollersheim trial?

JON: I think it was down to the judge. I think he heartily believed that he shouldn’t have allowed Christofferson’s attorney to criticise the cult’s religious status to the jury. But this came from the confusion sown in his mind by the protest. It was the first time that we heard about OTs “praying” for the judge. OT VII’s (the highest level at the time) were brought in and sat in the front row in court. In this case, the prayers were of the Satanist type — the judge’s body thetans were to be “enturbulated” so that he would succumb.

THE BUNKER: Last week, we posted an internal church e-mail which showed that only a little more than 600 Portland Scientologists had agreed to show up for today’s event. A far cry from the scene in 1985.

JON: How are the mighty fallen. One organizer of the 1985 march later told me about the elaborate bus system used to bring marchers back to the beginning of the parade to trick the numbers up. Even the two thousand then could be an overestimate…

THE BUNKER: Thanks, Jon. We’re hoping to have some live reports from folks at the scene for today’s grand opening, so check back to see if we’ve added to the post.

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on May 11, 2013 at 07:00

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  • jensting

    Can’t wait to her how everyone gets on in Portland; David “he is NOT insane!” Miscavige, Heber Jentzsch, the process servers…

  • EnthralledObserver

    Thank goodness Scientology’s days of influence demonstated by these events in Portland in the late 70’s seem to be coming to an end.

  • monkeyknickers

    I SO want to go to bed tonight saying: Portland, fuck yeah!

    Unrelatedly, the Scribd thing makes my computer angry – do I need to download something? I’ve had to re-boot twice trying to view docs, and the computer starts to D R A G . . . . opinions?

    • BosonStark

      You might try downloading Adobe Flash. It’s free. If that doesn’t work, download Java — also free.

      • monkeyknickers

        I have flash (I have a Macbook Pro – they tend to auto-update stuff) and Java . . . I can’t figure out what this issue is.

        Actually, I can. It is devilry. Or the ghost in my machine is L Ron Hubbard. Ooo! What if my computer is target 2?!

        • N. Graham

          Try a different web browser.

        • Ze Moo

          Worldpress has been having problems with cache and memory and throughput for the last few weeks. Just reload the page and if scribd still doesn’t load, try another browser. It might work, but memory issues are a pain to solve. Google worldpress hack attack and you’ll see the reason….

    • deedee

      Allthough I agree with your opinions Monkeyknickers, I have noticed several times now that you
      freely use filth words. It is not very “ladylike” or “classy”

      Just a friendly peace of advice since you are going to be a mother. I am a mother too and have given this lesson to m children.

      • monkeyknickers

        Oh good! I love this game.

        Look girl – it’s a word. A word that is one letter away from
        being a water loving fowl. Because it has no intrinsic value, a word has only
        the worth that you give it. Like gold, and diamonds, and Britney Spears.

        And it’s not even pejorative. !

        Deedee – Imagine how much time you could save by NOT being offended
        by a made-up non-existent threat! You could be thinking about . . . . . . your
        luck, your stocks, your mouth mucus, that little thing they use in hockey . . .
        . I mean – shucks! (Attn: hidden
        meanings there if you are sensitive)

        And yes, I do intend to talk to my daughters with this
        mouth. I also plan to teach them that the world is full of bullsplit and that
        there are plenty of times they’re just going to have to play along despite
        knowing the whole system is crap.

        I guess I’m saying: COPE, SISTER. Goodness gracious.

        • EnthralledObserver

          There is the ‘c’ word, the ‘f’ word, the ‘s’ word and many, many other variants… and they ALL need lovin’.
          *thumbs up* 🙂

          • Bruce

            Over in Britain the “c” word isn’t even a curse word. It’s more like “you idiot.” This is according to my Brit friends.

        • deedee

          Well I’m not trying to make you feel bad but you are doing a
          diservice to your daughters and also the community but teaching them to be rude
          and vulgar.

          • monkeyknickers

            I’m not trying to bust your balls, Deedee. Really. I understand that you are basically talking about respect. But I truly, TRULY believe that respect in this country is more than
            word-play. More than wasting time getting distracted by profitless
            arguments. Fuck the man D!

            • Roger Larsson

              A synonym to fucking is reproduction. People reproducing the reproducing in $cientology goes free something pre-clears buying the reproduction in this reproducing cult. They
              are in the reproducing from they wake up to they go to sleep. It’s not a crime to describe a reality. Fucking makes it better than reproduction. Censor the word fucking and the human race ends up in rats and cockroaches memory.

            • sugarplumfairy

              ROGER!! missed you! Wondered where you’ve been!

            • Roger Larsson

              I’ve been a lurker and a thinker. Hello David Miscavige….good bye David Miscavige. Life consist of meetings, some are good other had people made it better without.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Ah couldn’t have said it better!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Thank you, Roger, for making sense of it all. Extra bowl of popcorn for bringing in rats and cockroaches.

            • Missionary Kid

              Roger, watch your fucking language! You’re using the r word. 😉

            • Captain Howdy

              Dam Roger! that was some wild Burroughs-esque stuff there!. You almost made my head do this..

              http://youtu.be/HY-03vYYAjA

          • sugarplumfairy

            When it comes to he C-word, dee, i’m with you.. I hate that word.. But the F word has worked hard to gain respect.. Soooo.. Fuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuck.. Let’s just get it out of our system..

            Now, dee, stop distracting us from the topic at hand.. Unless, of course, that was your purpose.. And if it was your purpose, carry on, I guess..

            • BuryTheNuts2

              You just made me truly laugh out loud….and I mean fuckin loud!!!

            • sugarplumfairy

              I live to serve.. =)

            • Ze Moo

              There is a time for everything, and propriety has its time too. I am just not fucking sure when that is…..

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              I thought the “C word” was “cult.”

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              The only time the “c word” ever passes my lips is in this joke. You must read the punchline in your best Paul Lynde voice. (My wife HATES this joke.)

              When Paul Lynde was a struggling stand-up comic, he found himself working in a particularly fetid underground nightclub. The place reeked of stale cigarette smoke, used beer, and unwashed bodies. Lynde walked to center stage, sniffed loudly, and proclaimed, “This place smells like a cunt!”

              Pause.

              “I think.”

            • Missionary Kid

              For those not acquainted with Paul Lynde, he was gay.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              PAUL LYNDE WAS GAYYYYYYYYY?!?!?

            • Missionary Kid

              We’ve got furriners and people who’re too young to really know who he was posting here. The joke would have no meaning to them. 😉

              When I say that because I’m a former Marine, they don’t let me up in really tall buildings in Texas, the listeners have to know who Charles Whitman was to get the reference.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              I get you. It’s like explaining Ed Sullivan.

            • Missionary Kid

              Yup.

              There is an advantage to getting older, and that is that I can tell some of my old jokes to people who’ve never heard them before.
              The disadvantage is that I have to remember to give the proper context or to update them, and I have to remember who I’ve told them to recently.

            • Casabeca

              Your wife has a point, but I celebrate your freedom of speech ;-).

          • Captain Howdy

            You must be a scilon to be this square. You’re just trying to drag the conversation off topic, right troll?

            • stillgrace

              If “she” is a scilon, I wonder if “she’s” ever experienced DM’s potty mouth?

            • FistOfXenu

              And I wonder how she got such an easy ride when she was doing her TRs.

            • sugarplumfairy

              And doing a fine job of it.. We’re like terriers who just spotted a squirrel..

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBWrMQVsuak&feature=youtube_gdata_player

            • Captain Howdy

              Exactly. I go crazy when i see someone trying to draw the conversation off topic because Bury and I staked out that territory long ago.

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2-gRkQ19Sw

            • BuryTheNuts2

              That is a bingo!

            • sugarplumfairy

              That was great!!

            • elar aitch

              True – we don’t want no demarcation issues in the bunker

          • teach them to be a scientologist …what could possibly go wrong then ?

          • Missionary Kid

            Are your or her daughters here? Are they even eavesdropping on this conversation?

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Is she fucking serious?

          • monkeyknickers

            O yes,

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            I think she needs a locational so she can find out where she really is. lol

          • whingeybingey

            Fuck, yeah!!

          • stillgrace

            LMAO here! Maybe deedee is too lady-like to be a soldier in the war against the abuses of Miscavige and Hubbard, and far too classy to read this blog!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              The Bunker is no place for the fainty of hearts or the dainty of minds.

            • Captain Howdy

              FUCKING A!

            • sugarplumfairy

              I think deedee’s on a mission.. It’s a big day in Portland and someone has to distract the J&Ders..

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Well why didn’t she say so? Now would be a good time to give her mission orders (Hey, I’m a bonafide scientology minister And a sci 3rd Class Missionaire, so I can Issue Orders… ! )

              Hee, Deedee. Here’s your Conditional Target #1: Word clear Method 9 and Clay Demo The Holy Leader of Scientology’s Command Intention Order: YSCOHB. Conditional Target #2: If you completed Target #1 and are Still a flaming scientologist, Fuck Off.

            • sugarplumfairy

              I seriously love you.. Right now I’m imagining the poor registrar who tries to hit you up for a donation..

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Watch your tone there. Not ladylike at all!

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              (Does “ladylike” appear anywhere on the Tone Scale?)

            • Missionary Kid

              See my reply to THDNE. 😉

            • Missionary Kid

              The term “ladylike” is so fucking passive-aggressive, it pisses me off.

              Translation for Deedee:
              The term “ladylike” is rather unseemly and I am offended by it. Fuck off.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              As a female babyboomer, the term “ladylike” has all the connotations of a mental straightjacket. You are correct, sir. You get a complimentary bowl of popcorn too.

            • Missionary Kid

              Wow! Thank you.

              I can be an asshole and curmudgeon, and you & monkeyknickers & the rest of you beautiful people call me on it. I’m not offended when you do.

              On the other hand, when I get a compliment form one of you, it makes my day. I value your opinions.

              “Ladylike” is, to me, often far more obscene than “fuck.” Fuck brings to mind George Carlin’s take on the word.

              Ladylike brings to mind the world where women ironed the sheets and their husband’s shorts, where white gloves were worn when visiting other women, and threw tea parties for the wives of other employees of the same firm their husband worked for, and where country clubs and the right schools were more important than having friends who one could share emotions with. That world must have been/is hell for women. The perfection of that world was, like $cientology, an illusion.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Wait a minute!!!! Wasn’t DeeDee the one who said something insulting about Bella Cruise and started lecturing a while back? The Nutritionist?

            • Midwest Mom

              No. It was someone else who posted the Bella comment.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Oh, ok…thanks.

            • Could DeeDee be the famous DeeDee from the Arizona org videos?

            • elar aitch

              deedee has only made three comments according to her profile

            • BuryTheNuts2

              NO shit!

            • Missionary Kid

              To me, the most offensive fucking word in this discussion to me is “ladylike.”

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Fainty and Dainty– weren’t they a famous fan dancing team in the days of vaudeville?

          • Life is too short to be fucking serious. Fucking serious prevents being fucking happy, fucking joyful and fucking awesome. I myself encourage everyone to be fucking curious, fucking playful and fucking orgasmic. Ixnay on the eriousfuckinay.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I fucking like you Michael.

            • I fucking like you too Bury.

              I’m in Corvallis, come say hi sometime.

            • monkeyknickers

              SHUT UP!!

              I grew up 30 minutes from Corvallis and go to Allan Bros every chance I get when I go home. And the co-op too!

            • OOOOhhhhhh, the beanery! Love it. They often have sugar free apple pie and I love to sit with that big mug of english breakfast and soak up the hippies, geeks and freaks that come in and out.

              The co-op is a little spendy for me, but sometimes… I do love me some Corvallis.

            • monkeyknickers

              The Corvallis Beanery is the shit. 🙂 It’s where I learned to make a decent cup of coffee . .. . and it’s somehow WAY better than the one on 1-5. 🙂

            • The one on I-5 is too…. politically correct. It’s too nice. Too open, too new. I like old wood tables and non matching chairs and sitting two inches from the next table with the guys playing chess or discussing computational neuro-psychology. The (sometimes) funky artwork and the recycle bin where you can get your newspaper fix for free.

            • monkeyknickers

              Precisely. It always seemed an odd choice to me. That being said, there are ALWAYS people in there when I drop in.

            • ParticleMom

              I must be the dainty, ladylike voice of reason here. By saying such things as “f*** you” and “f*** me” while pregnant with female twins, you are implanting prenatal engrams that will cause promiscuity and maybe even incestuous lesbianism! If you do not stop immediately, I will be required to call DSC!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Too late, I already KR’ed her ass to ethics hours ago.

            • monkeyknickers

              GOOD GOD WOMAN. I see the light! :)) Engrams and . . . um . . . . aliens are turning my daughters gay!

              Hallelujah!

              I was afraid they might come out republican.
              🙂

              OH JUST KIDDING. Sorry peeps, I had to go for the joke.

            • monkeyknickers

              I love my slutty lesbian daughters. 🙂

            • Captain Howdy

              My comment of the day

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          Well, I’m not up with the whole notion that “it’s just a word” and “it means nothing but what you make of it.” That’s a little too close to the idea that “what is true is that which is true for you.”

          Words aren’t just meaningless sounds. They are the containers of ideas. That “fuck” has become so ubiquitous doesn’t suddenly make it respectable.

          Funny thing. True story. My kids kept dropping the “f bomb,” despite best efforts of my wife and myself. Then one day, in a discussion of bigotry, I stated, “Anyone who uses the word ‘nigger’ does so knowing it will offend.” My kids went ballistic. “YOU CAN’T SAY THAT WORD!”

          “What word???”

          “You know. The, the, the “n word.”

          I said, “You are telling me I cannot utter the word ‘ni…'” At which point my daughter began screeching.

          Later, after the dust settled, I was able to use the conversation to illustrate the idea that it is never the case that “words are just words.” Or they have “no intrinsic value.” Case in point: talk up to a group of black people and use the word “nigger” in casual conversation. You will see what I mean. In spades.

          • stanrogers

            Might want to avoid the word “spade” in those circumstances as well. (Not trying to be a love-making front bottom here.)

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Are you insulting front bottoms?

            • stanrogers

              Nay, never. I frequently (and perhaps, sadly and obsessively) sing their praises.

            • FistOfXenu

              If you mean what I think you mean I already said my piece about not using such beautiful anatomy for insults so I won’t launch into another rant. I’ll just remind us that women’s bodies are wonders of the natural world and deserve appreciation and respect. 😉

            • Artoo45

              The feminine perjorative. Never okay. That is all.

            • Poison Ivy

              Agreed. Little PoisonIvy and her college-aged pals all refer to each other as sluts and ho’s and bitches (hopefully not the C word). Thank you, reality TV! To me this is internalized gender bias and it creates a subtle loss of self-worth (and it reduces their whole identity to their sexual function and attractiveness, which is a HUGE problem as well.)

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              But spade is just a word… just sounds… and has no intrinsic value…!

            • Missionary Kid

              I had the same thought, and was going to post it, but you beat me to it.

            • FistOfXenu

              You beat me to it stan. When I was young this was a common insult by racists.

          • Observer

            While I agree with you, you can’t just march into someone else’s house and start offering unsolicited “friendly advice” on child rearing to someone, especially someone you’ve never interacted with. IMO that’s some breathtaking gall and is far more rude than profanity.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            While you make an extremely valid point, words are given power that “we” give them.
            And that means you can choose to be offended or not by many words.
            I see your point about the N word and it was a good illustration, but I think it misrepresents what occurred here.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Still don’t know that I agree. Words change and evolve in meaning, and to a certain extent we can give them as much or as little value as we desire. But at the end of the day, words are not just sounds with no intrinsic value. They are (as I said before) the containers of ideas.

              It’s the IDEAS that have power. And if we divorce words from meaning (ideas), then we have no basis of communication.

              Green fans plus no one EVER that was the last place cancer survivor of the hydrelectric donuts donuts donuts.

              Cock sucking shit eating ass-chimps that post here can go fuck themselves and their mothers.

              Were those two unrelated strings of sounds, devoid of meaning or context? Did either of those “statements” resonate in any way? (Is anyone offended?)

              (And yes, CONTEXT is everything. When I walk into a casino, I do not begin complaining that there is gambling, GAMBLING going on. I expect to see a certain amount of “sophisticated,” “adult” language here. But there’s a limit…)

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              (And are we all pathetically sitting around in bathrobes waiting to see if anything exciting is going to happen around 1pm Pacific Time? At least I made scones this morning.)

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I am going to Daytona to eat clams in preparation for this afternoons voyeurism!
              With garlic and butter and niacin!

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Straight from their five-hour sauna?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I live in a sauna 24/7.
              Flor-eh-duh!

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              My sincerest condolences.

          • Missionary Kid

            I do, and have, used the N word in casual conversation with black people. It is rare, but when I do, I have made sure they understand the context. I have never been attacked, verbally or physically for using it. The usual result is a chuckle, and I’m as white as humans can be.

            I would suggest that the use of a word and the result and understanding have to do with context, timing, the audience, and intent.

            We’re adults here. This is a self-selecting group. I am not offended by monkeyknickers’ swearing, and consider her extremely, “ladylike,” which, in the context it was used, I consider extremely passive-aggressive and offensive.

            • FistOfXenu

              Can anybody remind me why we’re spending all this time talking about language instead of the criminal cult of $cientology and its scam artist deadly fraud NarCONon?

              Sorry if that’s rude of me. It’s not like I’ve never fallen into the trap myself. 🙂

            • Missionary Kid

              Good advice taken.

          • Artoo45

            As Louie C.K. said “Fuck you. When you say ‘N-word’ you make me say ‘nigger’ in my head!”

          • monkeyknickers

            D . . . . I totally love you and your posts are always interesting. So my response is offered as friendly debate . . . . :))

            I tried to run away from DeeDee and not post this morning because she was highjacking Tony’s blog, but . . . . . one thing, brother 🙂

            You are completely correct. Words often express ideas. And as such, they can render great power.

            And the thing that separates simple swearing from words like “nigger”, “gook”, “wop” etc is that the latter are distinctly pejorative. The ONLY function of those words is to denigrate. They have no other purpose or meaning. But even those words lose power. I refer you to Native America.

            I cannot TELL you how many times my dad said, “#$&@” (see below :)) when he saw the Washington Redskins in the paper. I mean . . . . imagine how well the “Baltimore Chinks” would go over.

            I understand the white perspective (my mom is white), and that the word has little value. It’s a cartoon. It’s lost all its power to offend the vast majority. Its an empty vessel of 8 letters.

            “Fuck” on the other hand, is . . . . just an adjective and no more. You can use it lots of places! 🙂 And because of that, it only carries as much value as we give it. It’s meaningless without our reactions. It’s 4 random letters stuck together.

            I guess my point is this: we have enough to worry about in life. Why add to it?

            And what would AMAZING GOOD could be done with the LOADS AND LOADS of money and energy major networks spend on censoring – just in case someone’s 6 year-old or my granny hears the word “shit” on TV? The millions (yes, millions) of dollars they could have spent on feeding children in America and elsewhere instead . . . . . it’s mind-numbing. As a society we’re willing to sacrifice the lives of children, just so they don’t hear a meaningless 4 letter word? It’s absurdity.

            That’s the difference between the two. At least for me, D. Then again, I have a brain the size of a cashew. 🙂

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Thank you for the kind words. I seldom get exercised over on line conversations with anonymous fellow posters.

              We just disagree over a vulgar word. Big whoop.

              And we do agree that there is something big and obscene in the room. That would be the CoS. So that’s nice.

            • monkeyknickers

              I like disagreeing. ! Otherwise I’d never learn nothing. 🙂 People school me constantly.

              Please disagree with me as much as you like.:)

          • Poison Ivy

            “Words aren’t just meaningless sounds.”
            Correct. In fact there is a large amount of real research (NOT LRH “data”!!) on the connection between our linguistic choices and our brains. Remember all that affirmation stuff from the ’80’s and ’90’s? That’s the pop culture version of it. But words and phrases and how they are used do really matter. There are studies on swearing as well…though personally I think it’s sometimes incredibly empowering for a woman to swear!

        • noseinabk

          ” that little thing they use in hockey . . .
          . I mean – shucks! (Attn: hidden
          meanings there if you are sensitive)”

          Here is a pic for ya. Demonstrates my feelings in regards to deedee’s attempt to derail.

      • whingeybingey

        Well, I am a mother too, and I think lessons such as not judging other people and minding one’s own business are far more important. Is the child going to be reading the forum do you think?? Seriously…. What you really mean is that YOU are offended. “Friendly advice” my fat aunt.

        • monkeyknickers

          God you are SO behind the times teaching your children tolerance and reality WB !

          🙂

          • whingeybingey

            Call me old-fashioned! Lol!

        • Observer

          Now we’re offending fat aunts. When will the madness stop!

          • whingeybingey

            I know! It’s an outrage! :p

          • elar aitch

            It’s the Attack of the Down arrow – they’ve started speaking.Engage, engage!

            • FistOfXenu

              down arrows? That’s my cue.

              This is a public service announcement:

              Freeloader debt is a lie – IT’S NOT LEGAL!
              Sec-checks are mental abuse.
              If there were any real OT powers this website wouldn’t be here.
              The door out of $cientology is the real road to total freedom.

              Thank you.

      • Observer

        Did I stumble into an Advice for Mothers-to-Be board? I’m all confused.

      • monkeyknickers

        Lovely lady … . . check this out.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bLFO4ZV0i4

        Then go clear up your m/u . . . . S. A. T. I .R. E

        • whingeybingey

          Lol! Well, I don’t know about you, but all of those words are m/us for innocent little moi. I swear I did not understand one word!

      • Captain Howdy

        Are you for fucking real or are you just retarded?

      • oh for fucks sake …

      • Missionary Kid

        When I lived in the South 45 years ago, I discovered that many Southern women were told not to do things because they weren’t “ladylike.” What “ladylike” meant was whatever elastic standard the person wanted to hold them to.

        Being “unladylike” could mean anything from a white woman riding in the same car with a black man to not wearing nylons, or wearing a two-piece bathing suit that showed a belly button.

        The people using the term were incapable of just saying, “I don’t like it.”

        As a preacher’s kid who once got a half-hour lecture after I’d graduated from high school for using the word, “darn” because it’s a contraction for “damn,” I have a full understanding of context and place.

        I still have a censor in my head that doesn’t allow me to swear in front of people i respect who I feel I might offend.

        On the other hand, fresh out of the Marines, I once timed myself swearing and went 30 seconds while only using the F word twice.

        I would suggest to you that there are no children here. This is a self-selecting discussion group.

        If you don’t like monkeyknickers’ use of the F word, say so directly. I would suggest you’re in the wrong place.

        Fuck off or put up with it.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Maybe in the marcabian parallel universe there is another Underground Bunker where we all wear Fedora’s and use phrases like: Oh, my word!

          • Missionary Kid

            Exactly. I try to stay in this universe. It’s the made-up Habbardian and other universes that have caused a lot of harm.

          • whingeybingey

            Are you kidding me?! I learned to swear in Scientology! Before that I was a nice Christian girl who thought the word “bitch” was bad!

        • stillgrace

          Some of you may remember my orange kitty, the one that belongs to Anonymous?
          He wants me to tell deedee to just “suck it up”. I asked him why, and he said “because it’s so much fun!”
          Here he is:

          http://www.godvine.com/Cat-Loves-Playing-With-the-Silliest-Thing-3178.html

          • Missionary Kid

            😀

      • Artoo45

        Oooooh. Filth words are filthy. You repeat yourself a great deal. Must be the auditing. The constant repetition of the TRs . . .
        Touch that wall.
        Thank you.
        Bad ashtray! No cigarettes!
        Thank you.
        Sit the fuck down.
        Thank you.
        Fuck the fuck off.
        Thank you.

      • FLUNK_101

        When my brother was looking for work, my uncle introduced him to George Lois, one of the original Mad Men. His presentations have been described as “lessons in creative profanity.”
        My brother explained his situation.
        Lois, picking up the phone, says, “Goddamn it (my brother’s name)! Let me get on the phone, bust some balls and get you a fucking job!”

      • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

        Deedee, we in RTC need to correct you.

        Specifically, all of the wogs who post here are potty-mouthed bigoted Scientology haters, It is not just Monkeyknickers

        Now please, deedee, get off this board. You are not cleared by OSA to be on public lines handling entheta.

    • richelieu jr

      I find the occasional expletive adds rhythm and emphasis, not to mention style…

    • Bruce

      Check to see if your browser is up to date. Then try another browser. I have 4 (Safari, Firefox, Chrome, Opera) on my Mac since some sites don’t play nice with different browsers.

  • BosonStark

    So in the Julie C-T trial, the crux of the dismissal, and the big clam victory was over a technicality — mainly that the presiding judge had failed to strike Julie’s attorney’s comments about Scientology not being a religion? Good grief! Of course, this was all a decade or more before Scientology got their tax-free religious status from the IRS.

    So, what constituted it being a religion before that? I thought they owed all those taxes to the IRS, because they weren’t one.

    How can there be real peace and prosperity until there’s an Ideal Org on every block? “Operation Christo”– you couldn’t make up stuff like this and be believed. Well, in a few days, they can sing, “We Shall Over-Reg,” although I guess they could stage some drama and start wailing for “religious freedom,” and an end to bigotry* about everything.**

    *No Xenu jokes or you’re dead meat.
    **Except wogs, defrocked apostates and critics.

    • Martian Bishop

      I mentioned this on OCMB. Nowhere on the Internet is the word “apostate” used so much except in regards to Co$. I call it apostate cancer.

      • You’re right. I understand that “apostate” is a real English word, but the only place I’ve seen it used is in Scientology press releases and spokesperson interviews, as if that proves that official press releases are always going to be more reliable than people sharing personal experiences.

        • Martian Bishop

          The only other time I’ve heard it is Tim Minchin’s Pope Song. And I’m fifty years old with a pretty good memory.

          • I thought it was pronounced APP-oh-STATE, because I had read it sometimes but had never heard it spoken. I only found out that it had accent on the second syllable when this site drove me to “word-clear” it in a dictionary.

        • Poison Ivy

          Folks sure used that word a lot during the Reformation. It’s been sort of out of the popular lexicon since then.

      • “apostate cancer” what’s the cure for that? Chainsaw palmetto?

    • Michael Barger

      Scientology’s claim to religious legitimacy is not founded on the IRS but the US Courts.

      Scientology lost its ta exempt status as a “chuch” (the IRS term for any religious organization) not because they declared Scientology not to be a religion but because of Hubbard’s inurement.

      In 1971 Judge Gerhardt Gesell brought to a close the nearly 10-year-old case of the FDA seizing 100 e-meters from Scientology in Washington DC as instruments of fraud.

      Gesell wrote that he wanted to ban the e-meter outright but was prevented from doing so because the US courts held Scientology to be a religion. He therefore decided to restrict its use to bona fide religious counseling.

      The great Dr. Lily Von Marcab has all the research:

      http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2008/07/11/18515418.php

      • And, as we discussed above, it does fit the definition of a religion. We have to be willing to accept the fact that there are good and bad religions, that Scientology is a religion and that the government is not going to make judgments about their beliefs. This does not mean that they are immune from prosecution for committing criminal acts (for examples, see “Catholic Church Sex Abuse Scandal” or “Jim Bakker’s PTL Club”).

        • jensting

          Freedom of belief (a good thing) should not mean exemption from consequences of lawbreaking – be it individuals breaking the law or an organisation predicated on illegal fraud (and what is worse). I insist that the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology can only exist because it is held together by means of illegal actions. As such, it needs to be dismanlted and its assets turned over to a compensation paying body.

          Individuals can – at the point – go on beliving whatever the heck they like, but without this particular organisation standing by to (more or less) coerce them into into financing and/or performing illegal actions.

          • Agree fully. Like Sen. Xenophon I think Scientologists (or anyone else) can believe whatever they want but are not free to engage in criminal acts.

            • Poison Ivy

              You said what I just said but much shorter and sweeter. 🙂

          • Missionary Kid

            I believe I’ll have a beer.

          • Poison Ivy

            Religion, schmereligion. Scientology is a religion, I suppose, because it deals with the cosmic questions that cannot be answered by real, provable factual “data” (oh I so LOATHE when Scientologists throw around that word to refer to the garbage LRH spewed out of his posterior! LRH’s FANTASIES ARE NOT ‘DATA’!!). You know, life, death, the universe. etc.

            I’d argue that it isn’t a religion like other organized religions because Scientologists (collar or no, “Sunday services” or no) don’t really gather together to worship. In fact, everyone is supposed to keep where they are on “the bridge” secret from everyone else. And what, really, are they worshipping? To my mind, Scientology is a religion of narcissists. YOU yourself are the ultimate God, subservient to one thing alone – the Bullshit of LRH.

            Beliefs are called beliefs for one reason – YOU CAN’T PROVE THEM. They have to be taken on FAITH. The problem is many followers of religion think FAITH = FACT. If it did, then where’s the courage, the conviction, of believing with your whole heart in something you can’t prove (and if you have enough faith, you don’t need to?)

            There are more beliefs and belief systems than there are religions and everyone is entitled to subscribe to any number of them as long as those beliefs don’t involve breaking the law.

            You can laugh about Scientology’s beliefs – but that’s not religious discrimination.

            They are so full of it.

            • Captain Howdy

              And if the person who invented said religion didn’t believe in it and if the current leader doesn’t either, how can it be a religion?

            • Poison Ivy

              Bingo, Captain.

    • Ze Moo

      A priest, a rabbi a minister and Xenu walk into a bar……

      • Missionary Kid

        Don’t leave me hanging like that. Tell the rest of the joke! 😉

    • FLUNK_101

      I guy goes in a bar. He asks if anyone wants to hear a Xenu joke.
      The bartender says, “Well, the guy on your left is a Scientologist.”
      So the guy says, “Oh, okay.”
      Then the bartender tells him, “And the guy on your right is also a Scientologist.”
      The guy says, “Oh, alright.”
      So then, the bartender says,”I’m a Scientologist too!”
      “Oh, that’s nice.”
      Smirking, the bartender asks,”You still want tell that joke.”
      “No.”
      “Why not? Now you’re afraid?”
      “I don’t want to have to explain it three times.”

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Good one Flunk

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        The funniest part of that joke is that someone walks into a random bar and finds three Scientologists.

        • FLUNK_101

          They were bussed in.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Hey! Where did my comment go? Did you eat it or did it exteriorize on its own?

            • FistOfXenu

              50 feet behind it’s own head.

        • I have a couple of good friends, one of whom is from a Mormon family and became an ex-Mormon a few years ago, the other is from a Jewish background. When we go out, I feel like a set-up for joke that starts:
          A Mormon, a Scientologist and a Jew walk into a bar….
          I can’t seem to get any farther than that. Anyone?

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            The Scientologist orders a scotch, neat. The Jew orders a manischewitz. The Mormon averts his eyes and leaves.

            Best I can do on short notice.

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            Inside the bar they spot a beautiful woman, sitting alone. The Mormon thinks, “Hmmm. Wonder if she’s married.” The Jew thinks, “Hmmm. Wonder if she’s Jewish.” The Scientologist thinks, “Hmmm. Wonder if she has credit cards or travelers checks.”

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Nice job!

            • Poison Ivy

              Love it, DDD!

          • So the Mormon asks “Do you have any lemonade?” The bartender shakes his head no, so the Mormon says “I’ll just have some water then.” The Scientologist asks “Do you have any niacin?” The bartender shakes his head no, so the Scientologist says “I’ll just have some water then.” The Jew says, “Look like this is a good day for me to pay for the round.”

            • Jgg2012

              The Freewinds hits a rock and sinks. A scibot manages to float to a small, uninhabited island, where he finds some coconuts to eat and straw to sleep on as he waits for help.

              A beautiful woman then arrives, telling the scibot that she, too, was shipwrecked, and was staying at a luxurious mansion on the other side of the island that was abandoned. She asks him over. She cooks him a nice, warm meal. The scibot is very pleased–“first one I’ve had in a while.” She then shows him a bathroom, where he takes a nice, warm bath. Again, he is pleased–“haven’t had this in a while either.” Then she loosens her bra, puts her arm around him, grins and says “anything else you haven’t had for a while you would like?”

              And the scibot yells “yeah! uh, can you give money to Scientology?”

            • Jgg2012

              The bartender tells a joke. The Jew laughs at the outset because he’s heard it before. The Mormon laughs at the end to be polite. The Scientologist doesn’t laugh because Ron never said anything about laughter.

          • Captain Howdy

            A scientologist with a parrot on his shoulder walks into a bar.
            The bartender says “Hey, that’s pretty cool, where did you get it?”
            The parrot says “In Clearwater, Fla., they’re running around all over the place”

            • Poison Ivy

              Now THIS – THIS is genius, Captain!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Not to the parrots!!!

            • Poison Ivy

              🙂 The long suffering parrots of Clearwater.

            • Captain Howdy

              Thanks. Flattery will get you everywhere.

            • Jgg2012

              The complete joke:

              A Jew walks into a bar, sporting a ring with an exotic, light blue gemstone.
              The bartender says “Hey, that’s pretty cool, where did you get it?” and the Jew says “from my cousin–he’s an anthropologist and he found it in Central Africa.” A Mormon walks in with a multi-colored, exotic tropical shirt. The bartender says “Hey, that’s pretty cool, where did you get it?” and he says “Somoa, where I did 2 years of missionary work.” A scientologist with a parrot on his shoulder walks into a bar.
              The bartender says “Hey, that’s pretty cool, where did you get it?”
              The parrot says “In Clearwater, Fla., they’re running around all over the place.”

          • Jgg2012

            It is similar to having a priest, minister and rabbi walk in, wearing their religious attire, and the bartender says “is this a joke?”

            Mormons actually don’t drink, but forget that for a moment.

            A Jew, Mormon and Scientologist walk into a bar. The Miss Universe pageant is on the TV. The bartender says “whaddya think?” The Mormon says “I want to marry them.” The Jew says “I feel guilty about all the genocide victims who can’t enjoy this.” And the Scientologist says “what is ‘thinking.'”

            A Jew, Mormon and Scientologist walk into a bar. A neighbor says “what would you do if you had one week left to live?” The Mormon says he would do missionary work for that last week. The Jew says he would spend all his money travelling and visiting exotic places. And the Scientologists says “I don’t know–what did Ron do?”

            After several visits, the other regulars gave these 3 nicknames. The Mormon was nicknamed Noah’s Ark because he had a huge family; the Jew was nicknamed Penny because he loved money. And the Scientologist was nicknamed doughnut because he looked glazed.
            Any suggested improvements?

            • Poison Ivy

              The pejorative Jew = money grubber meme I find really offensive. That should’ve been out of date in Shakespeare’s day.

            • Jgg2012

              I know, but jokes play on stereotypes. And I was just trying to give everyone some ideas. Maybe we can change it to:

              A Jew, Mormon and Scientologist walk into a bar. A neighbor says “what would you do if you had one week left to live?” The Mormon says he would do missionary work for that last week. The Jew says he would read all of scholarly works he hasn’t read. And the Scientologists says “I don’t know–what did Ron do?”

              After several visits, the other regulars gave these 3 nicknames. The Mormon was nicknamed Noah’s Ark because he had a huge family; the Jew was nicknamed wizard because he was so educated. And the Scientologist was nicknamed doughnut because he looked glazed.

              Any other suggested improvements?

            • Poison Ivy

              I think it’s improved.

              I love the “Doughnut” line!

              “I don’t know, what did Ron do?” is *f-ing brilliant. (*Hat tip to @monkeyknickers:disqus )

          • Jgg2012

            A Mormon, a Scientologist and a Jew walk into a bar. The bartender says “between you and me, have you guys ever sinned?” The Mormon admitted that he once had a beer; the Jew admitted he once ate some bacon; and the Scientologist admitted that he once had an original idea.

        • FistOfXenu

          DM JT and TC of course.

          • Artoo45

            So it’s: “Three big beings are sitting at a bar . . .”

            • Jgg2012

              In 1998, after the Monica Lewinsky scandal, Wall Street came out with new new types of municipal bonds–the Lewinskys, the Gores (named after Al Gore) and the Hubbards. The Lewinskys don’t mature; the Gores have no interest; and the Hubbards have no principle.

      • I noticed something interesting when talking to current Scientologists and others deeply entrenched in a belief system… When asked a question that exposes a contradiction in their belief system, they seem unable to mentally process the question an understand it. This happens with questions like:
        What is what is true for you turns out to be different that what was true for LRH? Or..
        If LRH was wrong about something, how does the Church discover that & correct it?
        That’s why you’d have to explain the Xenu joke.

        • Poison Ivy

          That’s because Thought Stopping really does just that. It stops down the thinking process.

        • Jgg2012

          Which leads to another joke. The bartender walks up to the 3 patrons and says “what do you know?” The Jew says that he knows Talmud. The Mormon says that he knows the Book of Mormon. And the Scientologist says “I know”.

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            To make this more accurate, the punchline would be “The Jew says he knows the Talmud, the Mormon says he knows that Joseph Smith is a true prophet, and the Scientologist says, I know.

            • Jgg2012

              yes, now it’s perfect.

            • Jgg2012

              One more. A Jew, a Mormon and a Scientologist are at a bar. An enebriated person walks up to them and starts cussing at them. The Mormon says “don’t cuss, that is a sin.” The Jew says “don’t hate–the Bible says ‘love thy neighbor.'” And then the Scientologist grabs him by the collar and shouts “what are your crimes!?”

  • deedee

    Allthough I agree with your opinions Monkeyknickers, I have noticed several times now that you freely use filth words. It is not very “ladylike” or “classy”

    Just a friendly peace of advice since you are going to be a mother. I am a mother too and have given this lesson to my children.

    • elar aitch

      ” I am a mother too and have given this lesson to my children.”

      Along with barley water?

      • Observer

        Ouch!

    • you are fucking weird .

      • monkeyknickers

        HAHAhahahahaha

    • Midwest Mom

      deedee.

      I’m not a fan of swearing, but I’m a huge fan of monkeyknickers. I was taught that to behave like a lady, one should not criticize someone else’s parenting skills nor should one infer that someone else is inferior in order to make yourself appear more refined or superior in any way.

      Remember, Good manners are meant to put people at ease, not at odds with each other.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Teach me how to be nicer!

        You are so good at it!

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        Exactly.

      • Captain Howdy

        Dam, you are one suave Mom.

        http://youtu.be/5svltdMdorw

      • monkeyknickers

        Awwwww . . . thanks MM. I’m kinda sweet on you too. :))

    • Artoo45

      Ooooooh. Scarequotes are scary. But not as scary as your mangling of the English language. I would indulge in some colorful invenctive just to annoy you, but I shant in deference to Mom. Go in piece . . .

    • grundoon

      deedee, you really should have a friendly talk with Lindsay Lohan’s mom. It’s your duty as a mother. Surprising that you haven’t noticed yet how much she could use your advice. Set her straight, then get back to us. It’s the greatest good for the greatest number!

  • Observer

    What a sickening story. The “Religious Freedom Crusade” was only a “Religious Freedom Crusade” if you define “Religious Freedom Crusade” as “Freedom To Masquerade as a Religion While Ripping People Off Like the Slimy, Criminal, Fraud-Based Business We Are.”

    • monkeyknickers

      Wicked, obs.

  • elar aitch

    Need some fun and piss-taking after yesterday’s betrayal bitterness

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Yeah. I am still pissed, but I guess Brian was just being a good Scientologist.

      Hope he sleeps well and has dreams of Lisa McPherson, Stacy Murphy, Patrick Desmond, Kyle Brennan…
      Oh, I could go on…and on….and on.

      For brevity, how about he dreams in depth of one good horror story brought on by his cult each and every night.

      Once he is an OT VIII and has “superpowers” maybe he can bring them all back.

      • stillgrace

        Jada Pinkett Smith was on CNN last night, talking about the fight against human trafficking. At one point she actually said something like: so many people are held against their will!
        Yeah, Jada, how about Lisa McPherson, Debby Cook, the people in the Int Base Hole???
        She’s either a blatant hypocrite, or just another ignorant, deluded sciloon.

        • Observer

          IMO she’s willfully ignorant, as are all supporters of Scientology. It doesn’t matter that they’re not supposed to look at natter boards. By not investigating the truth they *choose* to remain ignorant,and in my book that puts them right up there with blatant hypocrites.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Agreed. Willfully ignorant is just one step below Just Following Orders. A person that agrees to censor their self in any manner is simultaneously agreeing to be a prisoner while supporting their jailor. There has to be a new term coined other than Stockholm Syndrome.

            I call it simply the Scientology Syndrome.

          • stateofcircle

            I’m still confused as to whether she and Will Smith are confirmed scilons. I know they’ve provided funding for a school that uses hubtard tech, but is there any other confirmation, like course completions?

        • elar aitch

          Celebrities somehow misinterpret public attention as a measure of their insight and intelligence

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Why why why didn’t CNN respond: You mean like Scientologists?

          • stillgrace

            Anderson Cooper has enough awareness of the cult to ask a question like that. Unfortunately, he wasn’t conducting the interview. It was a total PR puff piece for Jada.
            Gag.

  • SFFrog

    Scientology — cebrating the fact that an angry mob can still apparently influence a court of law.

  • Is there any type of list or number of lists out there that
    cover most if not all of the locations where the children of the church are
    held/taught/ indoctrinated? The number of children held and worked in these
    locations? If the monies for food and utilities are doled out weekly / monthly?
    When the church falls, for whatever
    reason it does, might it be unbeknownst to some of these locations that that
    has happened? It seems to me that it is a common practice of the church to feed
    misinformation to the followers. To never let them know how bad it is outside.
    If the powers that be cut and run would they even bother letting the followers
    know? If they were brought into litigation, tried and sentenced would any word
    go out? How long would it be before these people are aware they have no more
    income. How long would they try to hold out and begin to starve these little
    kids because they were left behind and kept clueless. How long would it take
    for the government to step in handle the problems that are created, let alone
    become aware of one existing in these locations. When the church does fall,
    might there be a way bring about a quicker relief to those that will need it? Here
    on the blog is a very good size knowledge pool and I wonder if some sort of
    preparation has been or can be made for something like a haven /
    de-indoctrination plan. At least a plan to give a heads up as soon as possible
    to prevent as much harm as possible. To point out the locations that will need
    some sort of intervention to keep the children from more harm.

    • Ze Moo

      When the clams are finally steamed, only Miscavige and his top wog lawyers will know the honey pot is empty. Picking up the pieces will be governments (welfare, child protective services, etc) and ours jobs. By then there will be no staff left at the mOrgs and the Sea Arrghs will already be working somewhere, just to eat. County and state mental health systems are the only ones who can cope with that trauma and the ex-clams aren’t likely to sign up for such help. Catholic Charities and similar organizations will probably be front lines in the recovery of clamdom.

  • Truthiwant

    Hey, the run up to this event is almost as exciting as the run up to a Super Bowl final!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      I just love that Tony has “correspondents” in the field for the event. lol. I wonder if this event is going to be as lulzy as I think. It certainly has potential. If only we could have a live feed from across the street. I’d pay for a front row seat for this one.

      • Observer

        I’d be glued to my computer for the day!

      • Kitz

        I almost went up to watch and report, but massive amounts of homework has me trapped at home. I can’t wait for the reports to start rolling in!

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Homework’s a good thing. Too bad you can’t make this event one of your assignments, tho, lol.

          • Kitz

            Oh how I wish I could! An earthquake would be the only way I could do it though. Now if I was taking a social science, instead of natural science. 😉

  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

    At the time, the critically community in Southern Ontario consisted of about 500 groups, each made up of two people. There was little journalism on Scientology. A critic could only know what he could figure out.

    I had moved out of the family dwelling so my mother was getting all the mail and phone calls from Scientology. She threw out the mail and hung up on the callers. My friend maintained his address. He received a call from the Toronto cult office stating that they were protesting in support of the American situation. My friend, who had long since given up on Scientology said that Scientology wouldn’t help him when he needed them and at that point he had no intention of helping Scientology. That was that.

    We speculated about the gravity of the situation. The mess in Portland, we felt, was one that Scientology could manage, win or lose. The problem was that, in Southern Ontario alone, there were hundreds and hundreds of people who really felt hard done by Scientology. They felt as though they had been fleeced of their money and time, in a straight-up confidence game. We would have a template to act against the cult, when we otherwise felt ineffectual. The class action suits that could have come after would have been enough to destroy the organization.

    Critics like me sat on the side lines and hoped.

    Let’s remember that Miscavige was nobody. L.Ron owned the problem.

    And I have to add that I just finished Jenna Miscavige’s book. I have fifty pages to go in Lawrence Wright’s book. They are excellent. But the greatest harm has not been to the movie stars and the family of Miscavige (though their harm is certainly very real too). It is to the average sucker who dropped out of university to take Scientology courses, who thought selling their car and delaying the purchase of a house would make them happy, who alienated their friends and maybe their spouse through the “wisdom” and “insight” they gained from L.Ron Hubbard. These people don’t write books and if they did, no one would publish them. They had nothing in place to fall back on when Scientology proved to be hollow. And, in many cases, it would take them years to put their lives back together. Today, most of them are invisible people. I think that is who we are honouring today, and who Scientology is making a mockery of.

    • Thank you for reminding us of the greatest evil. The group you mention includes those “publics” enticed to enter the Sea Org with visions of freeing humanity and experiencing the reality of slavery.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Applause, applause. You have nailed down the core of the cancer as well as key to scientology success, being that most customers, like anyone who’s been scammed, are too embarrassed or afraid to speak up. Look how impossible it has been to get media coverage on the average scientology customer. It’s only been since Katie Holmes that the media is covering the horror stories instead of the Xenu comics. I’d estimate the number of broken lives over the years must total several hundred thousand. Several hundred thousand. But I appreciate those that Have written books about the more extreme journeys because in the telling, there are pieces of everyone’s part of the puzzle.

      And Gerard’s statement about why scientology is a religion, while profound, is incorrect. In fact, he lays out the exact argument of why scientology is Not a religion. This is what just keeps getting missed, over and over.

      Belief and faith in scientology is not just absent. It is a High Crime that will get you disqualified as a scientologist. It is laid out in throughout the doctrines, but exactly in the #1 Hubbard dictate of “Keeping Scientology Working” that is hammered in until you obey whether through constant peer pressure or constant ethics threats and manipulation. Obedience through intimidation and manipulation is a form of Abuse, not a form of religion.

      In around 1981 the Sea Org orders came down from Hubbard to begin the religion ruse in earnest. I’ve spoken before about it, what with the priest collars, the robes, everyone and I mean everyone from reception to the CO had to drop everything to whiz through a ministers course abbreviated down to a fast drive-through past. We were told some bullcrap reason, either threat of a militiary draft, problems for foreign student visa’s, and oh yeah, the world was about to be nuked. And Bill Franks was not what I would call very ecclesiastical at that time. He was one of the abusive violent bullies that I had to address years later. I have a very hard time seeing him as a kind, benevolent human being, but I know he was imprisoned as I left in the RPF and tortured, so it’s easier to forgive and believe he might have changed. I do agree in the legal arena, however, it’s best to leave the entire issue out.

      In the court of public opinion, including the fine people of Portland, Oregon, scientology is a crazy scam. It will be interesting to see what celebrities and politicians actually show up for this one, and which ones value their careers and stay in bed under the covers.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Having a problem going back to edit. “fast drive-through past” should be pass. It only took a couple days, part time, to get thru the course, and get a ministers certificate.

      • In the Sea Org in late 1979, early 1980 I was posted in Cedars Estates Service Org, (CESO), working with Paige (Becker,Kuhn,Kemper…) who was Tech and Qual Sec. In about November 1979 I started on the first experimental human experimentation program of Hubbard known as the (I believe) second staff pilot of the ‘purification rundown’. This was done in a steam heated sauna slapped together with rough 2x4s and plywood constructed in the basement of the main ‘Y’ shaped building at ‘big blue’ in Hollywood.
        I was on it 60 days. Later, Gene Denk found that I had liver damage.

        Just as I was finishing this 60 days, an order had come from Hubbard, requiring ALL Sea Org members to do the ‘Ministers Course’, as selective service had gone back into effect and this was done to prevent Sea Org members from being drafted into military in case the military draft system went back into operation.

        I protested, that doing the ministers course was a personal choice and should not be enforced on someone to do. This was rejected and I was ordered to do it right away. It took me 3 days of study to complete it.

        Shortly after this, I left the Sea Org for the second time.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          ooh, that’s right, there was an earlier time. So one was to handle the potential draft, and the other was to handle the lawsuit PR. Jeez, Michael, did you have a nickname back then? Honestly we had to be on that guinea pig purif together (although it could have been different time shifts) and I remember the name Kuhn for sure. I was guinea also on the running program. I too have later in found problems from my sci days.

          • No nickname that I recall. I was pretty quiet. I do remember I got it in my head for a while that I wanted to put a good edge on my new sheath knife. For some reason I figured the ‘free time’ I had in the sauna was a good time to do it. So there I was with a piece of wood for a work surface, a sharpening stone and some honing oil, busy putting a razor edge on my hunting knife as I sweated away in the sauna, with a bunch of hallucinating ex-druggies all around me and me clueless to their wide-eyed reactions.

            In a very sick sort of way, it has some humor.

            Paige was the Qual Sec, we ran a courseroom in CESO for estates staff. It was down the hall from main building reception to the base of Lebanon Hall. I sometime sat QM.

            How about you?

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Oh my freakin gawd, that was You?! How the hell could I Evah forget the dude with the hunting knife in the sauna amid all the other sweaty, stinkin’ druggie dudes going frickin’ insane, mumbling to themselves, or hyena laughing suddenly for no apparent reason, livid fights breaking out and scrambling to get out of their way. And there was someone writing in folders, Folders in the sauna (or that may have been the second Purif time), oblivious to the ink melting along with our searing brain meat. There is absolutely nothing I have ever seen, not any movie that I could compare that experience with, just none. Funny bumping into you here after all these years and finally knowing your name.

              You. Just. Can’t. Make. This. Shit. Up!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              This.is.epic!

            • WOW! Have never met anyone else who remembered that! I guess I did make an impression.

              Yea, the folder thing. They still had to get their stat.

              And all the paperback books that just fell apart after a few days. I remember someone was into Louis L’amour novels. I think that’s where I got addicted to ‘destroyer’ novels.

              As to damage, I had liver hardening. like so much other stuff, scientology cannot take responsibility for the harm it causes. I think asbestos related disease will eventually hit them very hard. There is a gold mine for ambulance chasers in the future. So many worked in the vents and on asbestos shielded steam pipes that there has to be a pool of those cases building up.

              When scientology was trying to kill me with reverse processing shortly before I got out, I also think the scientology doctors I was going to were told not to inform me of my diabetes, so as to cause me even more problems. And that was when I was still officially a member!

              Anyway, hope you are better. I really enjoy your posts!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              I remember trying to read in there too. That wasn’t insane at all. wow, that’s horrible about the diabetes and reverse processing. Anytime anyone here mentions the Shaw clinic or the “wunnerful” Dr Denk, or any of the others, I try not to erupt gaseous venom here, but sometimes, I well, let ‘er rip. Oh damn, now we need some serious lulz. Hey, we made it this far and that’s somethin’.

            • Yes! We made it this far. We are here and we are representin’.

              I do have my PTSD responses myself. It’s hard not to explode and figuratively grab them by the shoulders and say “What! are you blind! This @#$@#%&&* cult ruined people, destroyed lives!”

              So, I try to not do that so much.

              I hope today, or soon, the authorities will move in and give us some serious LULZ to make up for the years of few lulz.

              it’s way past time.

            • I remember David Layne, but didn’t have much interaction with him. Definitely knew Mark, because I was an ASHO recruit when I first joined the S.O. There sure were a lot of characters around. One of the reasons it’s hard to comprehend that so many of us could get so far down the rabbit hole.

              I too wonder what my life would have been like had I not fallen for Ol’ Hubbard’s patent con game. Scientology preyed upon me and my weaknesses and I don’t know where I’d be, but almost anything would have been better than spending 27 years chasing an illusion.

              I didn’t know it was listed as an asbestos site. There is a LOT to clean up. All those steam lines were wrapped in inches thick layers of the white asbestos insulation, crumbling into the air. The ‘complex’ was bad enough, but what about all those helpful folks who worked on the blue asbestos laden ‘Freewinds’ renovations without adequate protection?

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Who in their right mind would give this a down arrow?

              Oh, yeah. That.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              I have to go with Gary Smith or Mary Reiser on this one. lol (god I hope I spelled it right)

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Down arrow is gone now? Did I do that?

            • Observer

              Sorry, it’s Rieser. Demerit!

            • aquaclara

              Great stories…and reunion!

    • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

      We in RTC remember the Portland Crusade.

      Back then Jeff Pomerantz had a mustache.

      We were all there in Portland and Jeff needed to get some mustache wax and where does one find that in Portland?

      Well it turns out that a specialty shop frequented by homosexuals had mustache wax and so Jeff went there and came back later that night.

      At breakfast the next morning we were all at Denny’s and someone made a joke about how badly Jeff’s new mustache wax had caked and Jeff said, “What mustache wax? That store was out.”

      That was when we in RTC realized that Jeff Pomerantz was not Sea Org material and would never be!

  • Although Justice (captial “J”) was not served in Portland in the Christofferson case, it does serve to remind us that reason, measured words and cool heads are always needed when dealing with the cult. The attorney fell into a trap by trying to enflame the jury. And he erred and opened himself up for reversal in doing so by remarking that Scientology isn’t a religion.

    Our experience conditions us to think that that religions have to be organizations believing in a deity dedicated to promoting the good (As an aside, the objection most nonbelievers have with organized religion is the perception that believers have short-circuited their ability to reason for a quick and easy rule book). This conditioning is a mistake. If we take “religion” in its broadest sense we are talking about a system of belief by which a person guides his or her life. It can be organized in some fashion. Thus, even atheists who join the Society for Ethical Culture are involved in a religion. By this definition Scientology passes the test – it is a religion. The real objection lies in the details. Is it a good or an evil religion? Is it a belief system and an organization whose philosophy and actions promote the growth, nurturing and development of all people or does it seek to extend power and control for its adherents at the expense of others?

    • Michael Barger

      We need to have a School For Lawyers on Scientology cases. With an increasing number of lawsuits more lawyers are willing to take on cases, particularly with Narconon where ministerial exception is not an issue.

      I am not at all certain these lawyers have an adequate grasp of legal issues, OSA’s litigation tactics, and the sociology of Scientology.

      Lawyers on the Patrick Desmond case did an exceptional job, but others make mistakes in understanding Scientology an 18-year-old in Anonymous would never make.

      • Observer

        I wonder if some of the legal and/or knowledgeable types and/or exes here could put together a package of this info for lawyers litigating against the “church”.

        • I think the key is understanding how to frame the issues in a way that keeps peripheral matter out of the litigation. As much as we would love to have immediate justice for the people being exploited the truth is that the justice system is slow and piecemeal by design. The Garcia case is a prime example of an effective strategy. They intentionally avoided going into the briar patch of religion. Breach of contract and fraud are issues courts understand and can deal with easily (but not quickly). That’s the reason why the Church resorted to bringing the claim of conflict of interest in an effort to derail a pretty straightforward finding against them.

          At the same time, the events connected with Narconon have the potential of dramatically accelerating the demise of the church. Provable criminal fraud against large entities is a short cut to jail. Part of the investigation is going to be focused on where the money went. Anyone involved in the scheme is subject to prosecution. Organizations that benefitted knowingly from the fraud will at a minimum be required to repay those funds. The cash squeeze is only going to get worse for DM.

        • stateofcircle

          I am actually in the beginning phase of establishing an information resource regarding this. As of now I am doing mostly paperwork and research, and will be starting to establish a network of information and resources. As I said, it is in the beginning phases and it is not 100% confirmed to proceed. There are a lot of resources out there, but they are scattered for the most part. I will hopefully be sharing more details regarding this soon.

      • Ze Moo

        All anyone who wants an education in the ways of the Clam should read xenu.net, whyweprotest, exscientologykids and TonyO’s Village Voice articles and here. Youtube has all the prepackaged testimony anyone could want.

    • PreferToBeAnon2

      Instead of remarking that Scietonolgy isn’t a religion, the attorney should have asked one question: Is it a dessert topping or floor wax?

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        So much better and effective than my runoff rants!

  • 1subgenius

    Off topic: New Birmingham (UK) Scientology boondoggle announced, with delicious VIDEO

    http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/church-scientology-plan-moseley-birmingham-3573504

    • Michael Barger

      THANKS! I just posted a comment and encourage others to do so as well.

      • Observer

        Excellent comment! Johan’s was great too.

    • Oh God. I couldn’t take more than a minute and a half of the word-salad script. It had to be written by DM’s “wordsmith” (whose name thankfully escapes me right now). It’s full of all of those god-awful ellipses.

      • Observer

        Danny Sherman?

      • elar aitch

        The Sherminator

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        I liked this phrase: “computer-gendered” sleep deprivation, maybe? I also love how they Fail completely to schmooze Birmingham residents as better than Londonites.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      The “American Narrator.” Is that Jeff Pomerantz?

    • Observer

      .

    • The ‘Birmingham Mail’ had a more balanced piece on the Moseley Mansion back in September 2012. No mention then of the claimed 20,000 Scientologists in the Midlands. Impressive growth?

      ‘Mystery over ’empty’ Scientology HQ in Birmingham’ – 22 Sep 2012

      […]

      THE controversial Church of Scientology is at the centre of a deepening Birmingham mystery – with an historic £4.25 million Grade II listed mansion allegedly left empty for years.

      […]

      http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/mystery-over-empty-scientology-hq-4413

      Andrew

  • N. Graham

    I’ll bet it’s close between who has the most people there-the antis or the $cilos. And I’ll bet Wee Davey’s talk is all about general Scientology is getting attacked all over blah blah blah but no specifics will be given. It should be fun!

  • Guest

    N.Y. Mayor Michael Bloomberg: Constitution ‘must change’ to give government more power

    NYPD: – Using a zero tolerance approach to track domestic terrorists online is the only reasonable way to analyze online threats these days, especially after the Boston Marathon bombing and news that the suspects had subsequently planned to target Times Square in Manhattan, Mullins says. The way law enforcement agencies approach online activity that appears sinister is this: “If you’re not a terrorist, if you’re not a threat, prove it,” he says. “This is the price you pay to live in free society right now. It’s just the way it is,” Mullins adds

    Obama: they’ll warn that tyranny is always lurking just around the corner. You should reject these voices.”

    ANYONE ELSE SEEING A PROBLIM HERE?

    • sugarplumfairy

      Yeah.. You’re posting on the wrong blog.. That’s a problem..

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Yeah, pretty much.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Deflect Tech employed so early in the day? This is on par with deflecting killer asteroids with paintballs…. oh wait.

        http://youtu.be/oqVXn83jYcc

        • Captain Howdy

          Deflect tech exactly. This and Miss Manners.

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            Don’t know that I agree with this one. Anonymous “Guest,” sure. Community member with bug up her ass, probably not.

            Besides, I sort of agree with her.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Stick around. You’ll become an expert Deflect Detector. Tip: Whenever Miscavige is going to emerge from his vampire castle while lawsuits are rearing up on all fours, expect footbullets and lulz firing up from all corners. Also, stock up on everything and strap in. It’s going to be a bumpy Bunker.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Cannot wait. Best night here for me so far was live blogging/commenting on the writing awards.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              I love the live blogs :}

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Okay. So I did go and check on the newly minted “deedee” and see that she has suddenly appeared, dropped a couple of provocative turds, and apparently departed. You are right.

              And now I understand why everyone seemed to hold off responding to me for a while. I thought maybe I was “not so fresh” or somethin’.

            • Captain Howdy

              You know I actually try not to swear on here. And If I’m in mixed company I try to do the same. Even though I’m an old punk I do have fairly good manners, and I have the scars from my mothers fingernails digging into the fleshy part of my arm when I wasn’t, to prove it.

            • sugarplumfairy

              One of the reasons we adore you so much.. your sensitivity..

            • Captain Howdy

              Thank you mam.

            • sugarplumfairy

              =)

            • grundoon

              -cough-

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              “Never do anything you wouldn’t do with your mother in the room.”

              (Corollary: “But MOM… I thought you WANTED grandchildren…”)

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              MY BAD. Deedee is no “community member.” She just appeared today.

              I am such a rube.

    • Midwest Mom

      This is not a pro terrorist blog, so I don’t think that the good people who post here have anything to worry about regarding your post. The Co$, on the other hand, does terrorize people and puts up hate sites for people whom they see as threats to their unethical actions. It is Miscavige who sees this as a “problim” (sic).

    • Not sure why you’re commenting here. Do you have anything to say relevant to the topic under discussion, i.e. the history of the Christofferson litigation?

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Or swearing?

    • Is this Downboy?

      • sugarplumfairy

        Problim?

        • Certainly seems to be a Study Tech alum. I was just wondering if this was one of the down-arrowers or somebody else. Two up-arrows, hmmm: usually the max number of down arrows is 3, suggesting that there are three Downboys, the other two giving up-arrows this time (but you cannot up-arrow yourself).

          • sugarplumfairy

            “…you cannot up arrow yourself.”

            well, you can, but your eyesight may suffer..

            • I used to be a cyberwarrior, but then I took an up-arrow to the knee.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Yes. Spelling.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Yes. Spelling.

    • Artoo45

      Come on, you can do better. There’s an “edit” function, you know . . .

  • Mary_McConnell

    Thanks for sharing this important part of history, especially to those who were not around back then. Looking forward to seeing just how many people actually show up today.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Thank you, Jon, for the stories and especially that juicy morsel about the bus maneuvers to inflate the appearance of #’s. I was outta there by Portland, and when I heard about it later, all I could think of is how in the world the major scientology centers, LA and Clearwater, could keep running. The orgs were bleeding dry and not only were there thousands who left in the Sea Org, most of them were the only ones who still had a brain and could manage anything. The income that was already dragging in the gutters must be have flushed down the toilet during that time. I’ll bet the True cost of staging this fake crusade was much higher than we know. It seems to me that today’s extravaganza is under very similar and perilous circumstances.

    It only gives more evidence that scientology is nothing more than Miscavige’s Sales and Fundraising business. It does not seem to matter to him or anyone else that what few staff are still standing, they can be sent off to Portland, or that the bucket drops of cash coming in can be spent all up in Portland instead of utilities and staff feed.

  • BosonStark

    Hubbard croaked in 1986, and had been in hiding for years. The Freedom clam march in Portland was in 1985, when fervor must’ve been high with the feeling Hubbard was forced into hiding for being an unindicted conspirator in Operation Snow White, or that he was hiding from SMERSH, or from some kind of governmental persecution.

    So, at that time, I think “Do it for Ron,” must have taken on a more emotional edge, as clams felt that one of the reasons they weren’t seeing Ron, was that he was forced into hiding by entheta or something. After all, it couldn’t be that his teeth fell out, and that he was having strokes, and had gotten even nuttier than usual. This was the genius with the secrets to controlling the aging process!

    CoS didn’t have the IRS tax exempt status, and they felt that paying out millions in court awards would threaten their existence. I’m just not getting the connection to today, and today’s clams. Why should some clam in Phoenix care about an Org re-opening in Portland, whipped into fervor over over some 30 year old court case that they don’t really know anything about to begin with?

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Frankly, they Don’t give a damn. Hell, some of them don’t give a damn about their own mother or daughter or their own sanity or health. It’s easy to hide one bad PR story from the sheeple, but there has been one tidal wave after tidal wave of shocking news. The only ones left are addict’s, I tell ‘ya. Okay, a few of them are just the Greed is Good monsters. But the rest have long ago sold their soul and everything else for Super Man Eternal Powers, just one win, one high, one buzz away. The news flood is viewed as a threat to their next fix.

      • BosonStark

        Yeah, I was kind of thinking it was some indicator of the entheta tsunami, and maybe some are energized by the imminent collapse. It builds strength in the contrarian. They’re excited by the threat. The more empty the Org, the more special they feel.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          perspecution complex is strong in this one

      • Poison Ivy

        “Okay, a few of them are just the Greed is Good monsters.”

        Don’t you dare insult John P!

    • Observer

      It seems to me that clams don’t know much of anything about everything they get whipped into a fervor about. All they know is what they’re told, and they seem to like it that way,

      • Captain Howdy

        Took the words right out of my mouth. They don’t seem to know anything about anything except what they’re told and what they’ve learned by rote. Ask a scilon about anything that doesn’t have anything to do with scientology and you’ll get a “It doesn’t concern me” or a “I choose not to engage in this conversation”. Ask them anything about scientology and they immediately go into TR-0 attack mode.

      • Missionary Kid

        To add: Co$ goes to great lengths to isolate them from any outside information, or even opinions so they only get the Co$ gospel.

        • Poison Ivy

          The murder of critical thinking: I think it should be a crime, really.

  • Truthiwant

    I have written another chapter of my short story.
    You can get it here

    http://wp.me/p3a0JR-7U

    • sugarplumfairy

      Lol.. I especially love elron’s big problem on target 2:

      “…Another big problem at the beginning was that Hubbard could not find any ashtrays. The Wogans did not smoke cigarettes and hence they had no use for them. However, they enjoyed drinking a lot and so Hubbard came to a compromise and the Wogans ended up shouting at beer mugs instead of at ashtrays…”

  • stillgrace

    Hello fellow Bunker dwellers. There have been two attempts this morning by sciloony trolls to distract us from the FARCE going on in Portland. I hope you guys don’t mind me reposting an excellent post by Just Bill on this very subject.
    ———————————————————————————————–
    Tuesday, July 8, 2008

    Scientology Troll Handling

    Now, I’m not the world’s best example of how to handle Scientology’s trolls, but I have observed a few things that I’d like to mention. These are things I’ve learned over time and that I wish I could keep in mind when I respond to trolls. Sometimes I do.

    The wrong thing to do when you run into someone who you suspect is a Scientology troll is get into a heated argument. This is what they want: A flame war, a diversion.

    Here are some things I have found more or less workable:

    Try to be courteous and polite. It contrasts nicely with their abusive and illogical posts. When they use gross insults, and (hopefully) you haven’t, point this out, it’s worth highlighting.

    Do not let them derail the thread. This is their job so don’t let them do it. Point out that they need to post their (off-topic) comment on a different, more appropriate thread and then you bring the discussion back to the main subject — usually something the Church of Scientology wants to hide. If you consistently and repeatedly do just this, they are defeated.

    Know your data. Include links to the facts available on the Internet. We know that trolls can’t go and look, but the other readers can and will get the facts.

    When the troll makes their claims or accusations, demand proof. They will not give you any so keep asking, it drives them crazy. If they do provide some bogus “proof”, debunk it with links and then demand “valid proof this time”. Keep saying, “You claimed X, so you need to prove it!” They really hate it when you keep returning to the exact thread they have worked so hard to derail.

    Admit it when you’re wrong. If you’ve made an incorrect statement, admit it and correct it. It contrasts nicely with the troll’s inability to admit any error no matter how well debunked.

    If the troll is off-topic, abusive, insulting, etc. you do not have to respond at all. If they are not participating in the real discussion, why follow them down their little rabbit hole?

    This leads to: The troll is not in charge, don’t act like he/she is. The troll will demand that you answer their abusive and off-topic comments. They use various tricks from L. Ron Hubbard to try to “control” you. But those tricks don’t work, they are not in charge, and you can do whatever you want. You could simply say “Why are you avoiding the subject?” or some such, or just ignore them.

    While it may be quite satisfying to get into a flame war with the Scientology troll, realize that this is their job and their intention. If they successfully muddy and distract a discussion of Church of Scientology’s crimes, they will have fulfilled their purpose.

    Not all people who defend the Church of Scientology are Scientology trolls. For many people, attacking a church, any church, is just wrong. If the only thing a person has seen/heard/read is the Church of Scientology’s lies, they will believe that the church is good and the attackers are evil. This is another good reason to be courteous and polite. Provide links to the truth. I realize that Scientology trolls sometimes pretend to be this kind of person, but even in that case, your being polite and providing links won’t hurt the discussion.

    The Scientology trolls love to equate criticism of the organization, Church of Scientology, with intolerance of the belief system of Scientology. They seek to hide the abuse and crimes of the church behind the cloak of religion. This is a ploy that many, many people fall for. Unfortunately, some newby critics of Scientology make this same mistake. A small number of newby critics of Scientology do attack the belief system of Scientology, sometimes even neglecting the crimes of the organization. While it may be entertaining to make fun of Scientologist’s beliefs (and some are quite strange), if you do this, and someone accuses you of being “intolerant of another’s beliefs,” well, I’m sorry, but they are right.

    In any case, please don’t you equate the two, that’s just playing into the Church of Scientology’s game. Keep the two things separate. The fact that the belief system of Scientology is very weird is not the reason and has never been the reason that the Church of Scientology is being attacked. Always be very clear: The belief system of Scientology, wacky or not, is up to the individual. They do have the right to believe as they wish.* On the other hand, the organization of the Church of Scientology is a criminal and abusive organization and its leader, David Miscavige, and all others responsible, have no right to get away with that abuse, “religion” or not. There is no “right to abuse people” in Scientology. They must and will be brought to justice.

    While I’m no great expert, I do know that the Scientology trolls are trying to control the Internet and suppress the truth. If you fall for the troll’s tricks, they move toward that goal. If you simply continue to expose the crimes, abuses, fraud and lies of the Church of Scientology, the Scientology trolls lose, the church loses and, eventually, the organization will fold and the criminals will go to jail.

    Footnote:

    * While people do have the right to believe whatever they want, they should be well and truly informed of all the facts before they buy into any belief system. This does not happen in Scientology. It is important to realize that a majority of Scientologists do not know the seriously wacky stuff. Most Scientologists are sincere people who were lured into Scientology with a few, carefully selected, acceptable bits. Many joined before a lot of this other data was widely available on the Internet.

    Attacking Scientologists only plays into the Church of Scientology’s game of “them against us.” It would be more accurate and more useful to frame the conflict as “honest people — non-Scientologists, ex-Scientologists and Scientologists — against the corruption in the Church of Scientology”. Scientologists are simply future allies against that corruption. When they finally learn the truth, they, too, join the fight against Church of Scientology corruption. After all, that is why the leaders of the church work so hard to keep them in the dark.

    Posted by Just Bill at 8:28 AM Labels: Church of Scientology, Trolls

    • Midwest Mom

      Thank you, Grace!

      • stillgrace

        You are most welcome. It’s long, but it’s not wrong.

    • Missionary Kid

      Well put, Grace.

      My reply to a person who I suspect might be a troll is to post, “Nice sarcasm.” If I’m wrong, they’ll let me know.

    • SP ‘Onage

      Sometimes I find it hard to stick to the Gandi tech when posting to sockpuppets. Thanks for the reminder.

    • grundoon

      Excellent advice!

  • elar aitch

    Hmmm – so how many attendees do you think there will be – I’m picking 600 – any other takers?

    • sugarplumfairy

      I say we divide it into forced attendees and voluntary attendees.. Forced? 600 sounds good.. Voluntary? 1.. maybe 2, depending on the current condition of tiny fist’s love life..

      • elar aitch

        May also need to separate pro and anti Sci. Maybe 20 lulz seekers?

        • BuryTheNuts2

          I am going!

          There are times when it comes in handy to be able to exteriorize!

          • stillgrace

            My exteriorized self will be there, too! How about our exteriorized selfs meet up in front of the gay bar? Let’s get there very early so we can report on all the busses bringing in meat bodies for the event.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Too bad you two can’t exteriorize with your video cam so Tony could live blog it.. That would be cool..

            • stillgrace

              I wish I could strap it on my head like a squirrel buster, but there are rules regarding exteriorization.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              WANT LIVE BLOG!

            • elar aitch

              What’s the exchange rate for exteriorised lulz seekers to clams?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Perfect! Being exterior at a gay bar and an Ideal Org at the same time induces a very special kind of transcendence.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              It does, doesn’t it!

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            Teach me to exteriorize! I want to go too!

            • You’ve always had the power! Now close your eyes, click your heels together three times, and say “There’s no place like Portland, there’s no place like Portland…”

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Oh God, Robert! I cannot tell you how many times I have tried that. It just doesn’t work.

              It’s like talking to an ashtray.

            • Missionary Kid

              You just don’t believe hard enough.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Close your eyes. Listen to Miscavige bawling like a baby on the witness stand. Watch his screaming and begging for mercy as he’s dragged off to jail. Look at all the tatoos on Bubba as he introduces himself to his new holy mate. Look at Miscavige right before he was arrested at the outdoor podium in Portland, Oregon. What did you hear him shouting to you as they cuffed him?

              Your welcome, no charge. First one’s free.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Now that there is some powerful vis-u-al-i-zation!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              And unlike Hubbard or Miscavige, I don’t go around driving people bankrupt, insane, and setting their children on fire for a cup of imagination.

            • monkeyknickers

              Okay D, but that’ll be 200K. UP FRONT. Then I’ll give you a bunch of papers with cartoons on them. You’ll love it.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Wow! Just, wow. Throw in a buffet and a big ugly certificate and I’m THERE.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Meet me at the corner of Southwest Third and Oak in Portland, Oregon in two hours. I’ll be the one holding the sign.

            • monkeyknickers

              Ha! I’ll put an order in for the plaque. Douglas with two Gs right? 🙂

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              No, two “Ses”

              (I really do have an engraved plaque in which my first name is spelled “Douglass.” I treasure it.)

            • monkeyknickers

              Dough Glass. !!

            • grundoon

              The buffet is a deal breaker.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              First, you have to clay demo it.

        • sugarplumfairy

          hope there’s waaaay more than 20.. And I hope TheHoleDoesNotExist’s dream from the other night comes true..

          • Observer

            Each lulz seeker is worth 50 clams. That is a true fact I just made up. Hey, if the Hub can do it, I can too!

            • sugarplumfairy

              Where do I sign up? Do you take Amex?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              And you are better at the math already!

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Actually, that is a fact, and part of a verifiable technology. Why? Because I just said so. And now it is in print for all to read. (Print this out and read it.)

    • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

      I checked with Sylvia Browne (telepathically). Sixteen thousand four hundred and twenty eight.

      • PreferToBeAnon2

        does this count the folks that have gone exterior?

        • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

          The CBC might not be as good as the BBC, but it’s still pretty good. This morning they went after Sylvia Browne and Scientology. The Sylvia Browne connection was a ten minute piece on her. Years ago she publicly told the mother of one of the women found in that house in Cleveland, that her missing daughter was dead. They interviewed James Randi. Neither Sylvia Browne nor Montel Williams could be reached for comment.

          Then they did a bit on Homes. They interviewed people imitating John Holmes, Sherlock Holmes, Katie Holmes and a Canadian celebrity named Mike Holmes who has a show called, “Holmes on Homes”. They talked about people occupying homes. When they got to the Katie character she said, “I was occupied but I am not allowed to talk about it”. The studio audience went wild. I guess the audience members got their Scientology info from the tabloids and have about the same opinion of it that the rest of us do. Way to go, merchants of chaos.

          Anyway, between the morning radio and this blog I am up to my neck in entheta! Hey, what’s that! It’s Sylvia Browne again! She has gone exterior! No… no… something has gone exterior in her pants and she has got to clean it out.

          • Missionary Kid

            Learn to be a Psychic in 10 Easy Lessons

            Download it here:

            http://www.skeptic.com/reading_room/learn-to-be-a-psychic-in-10-easy-lessons/

            • Midwest Mom

              My favorite “psychic” question is: “Do you know someone whose name begins with the letter J ? Maybe a relative or a co-worker? Someone you went to school with years ago? A pet, perhaps?”

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I am going to a psychic fair next weekend. I do this occasionally just for the lulz!

            • Missionary Kid

              I always crack up when I see a sign like, “Psychic Fair ==>”
              If you’re psychic, shouldn’t you know where it is?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Lol

          • aquaclara

            Great replay! I’m enjoying this immensely.

      • sugarplumfairy

        But 3 of them are dead, near rocks..

        • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

          You can’t always trust the CBC either. But, wait! There is more good news. There is another bit right now on the CBC on Anonymous. It is about ten minutes long. They are going for Scientology’s throat, almost as though there is nothing to debate. They are framing them as unscrupulous individuals who will stop at nothing to prevent the discussion of their organization. Yay, CBC! Yay, Anonymous. Throw in a hip, hip, hooray for all that have stood up to them.

          It’s great to be alive and have a Saturday with nothing to do.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      I predict just under a thousand. I further predict that there will be breathless announcements about how they had to turn away throngs of people due to space limitations. And I finally predict that they will note that despite so much other activity going on in Portland (Dalai Lama, interfaith bee rescue, etc.) that the CoS is STILL a big draw. Winning!

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        And since I’m on such a roll. I further predict that when the big green bow is yanked off the front of the building, a chunk of cornice will be dislodged, it will strike David Miscavige on the head, his pants will fall down, and he will not be wearing underpants.

        • grundoon

          Top Gun underoos

  • 600 confirmed people at an Ideal Org opening ? LOL….my high school had 2000 kids in it …i think there was just under 600 kids in my graduating class alone. Clear the planet ? They can’t even fill a gymnasium

    • BuryTheNuts2

      The other 9,999,400 Scientologists had other plans.

      Edit: wonder if Brian is going as part of his A&E?

      • gag ..i looked at his web site. ( what is A & E ? …)

        • BuryTheNuts2

          His suck up steps to get back on the bridge.

          • It is otherwise known as ‘A through E’, the specific steps a person who is declared and expelled has to go through to return to ‘good standing’ within the cult.

            Like so many other such things, they cannot even do a 12 step program right.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Wait, so he recently said he’s going back in, after saying yestereday he wants nothing, Nothing! to do with it?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              No, I did. Because I don’t believe him.

          • monkeyknickers

            Perfect & succinct, lady. You should write a Newbie Dictionary of Scatalogical Scientology Terms.

            It took me months to figure out what the hell everybody was talking about.

            • Casabeca

              I just now learned the A to E…still learning here, much more to go. Thank you to all the explainers. Now looking up “clove hitch”. 🙂

        • monkeyknickers

          Just went there myself. Well . . . . he seems very flexible. And tan.

          And god knows that the central tenet of yoga is, “fuck over a bunch of people for 350K”.

          Namaste, bitches!

      • Observer

        Ooo, good question. We’ll have to scour the photos to see if he’s there. He’ll be the one in the clove hitch.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          and wearing the asshat with pigeon feathers.

  • Spackle Motion

    I’m stuck on one paragraph here, and I hope someone can clear this up. This question is not meant to be mean or derrogatory against anyone, it is an honest question.

    This is the paragraph:

    Jon, who was Julie Christofferson-Titchbourne (pictured at right, with her attorney Garry McMurry), and why was her lawsuit in Portland so important?

    Jon was known as Julie at one point? I’m confused because he refers to Julie in the third person throughout this interview. Am I reading this incorrectly? I have a bad habit of skimming too quickly but I reread this and now I’m confused.

    • VickiStubing

      Tony is addressing Jon and asking the question about Julie.

      Spackle Motion, does that clear things up?

      Like that.

      • Spackle Motion

        Oh….OK. Thanks for clearing that up. There’s an intonation that I missed. It is supposed to read as “Jon, [pause] who was (this person) Julie… and why was her lawsuit in Portland so important.”

        I must not be awake yet.

        Thanks, Vicki. I spend all week reading government documents and my mind is usually shut down by the weekend.

        • Understandable. It’s Saturday.

        • VickiStubing

          Or, like me, too anxiously awaiting news from Portland! I am so torn: watching Man City in the FA Cup or staying tuned for moar Sciloon updates. Life’s full of tough choices.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            I am stuck in a car….so this place is awesome!

          • It’s still early (not quite 9 am) on the West Coast.

    • The answer lies in the comma after ‘Jon’.

      Neither Jon nor Julie have ever been the other!

      Andrew

      • BuryTheNuts2

        At least not this particular john and julie

    • Guest

      Yes, just drop the word “Jon” (set off by the comma) to make sense of the sentence.

  • Midwest Mom

    Poor Davey. The Dalai Lama is in Portland now and is getting more publicity and interest by the public and press than the Co$’s little event. What bad luck for Corn Cob. I’m guessing that the Dalai Lama doesn’t even know who he is, let alone the fact that he is in town.

    http://portlandtribune.com/pt/9-news/152210-dalai-lama-spreads-message-of-peace-at-first-portland-appearance

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Oh jeez…..can it get any better than this?

    • N. Graham

      Except this one from yesterday, kind of laughingly about the $cilons:

      http://blogtown.portlandmercury.com/BlogtownPDX/archives/2013/05/09/portlands-scientologists-are-doing-something

      They even quote Tony!

      • Ze Moo

        I loved the comments, “I don’t look to the Portland Mercury for unintelligent xenophobic bashing.” That’s ‘Xenuphobic’ bashing you clam. The few clam comments were countered by many more protesters. Major fail for the clampire….

        • Missionary Kid

          “The clampire” goes into my collection of witticisms. 😉

        • Ciru

          Xenophobic? Do they think that all the scilons are foreign?

          • Midwest Mom

            Sciontologists are the most Xenophobic people on earth. They have an irrational fear and hatred toward Xenu and non-Scientologists and have the audacity to call non-Sci’s “wogs”.

            They’re the bigots.

            • Missionary Kid

              That got a real laugh out of me. LOL just doesn’t cut it for that posting of truth.

          • FistOfXenu

            Maybe they think all foreigners have something to do with me? Anyways, my wife says I’m too cuddly for anybody to be afraid of me.

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          I tried to register for the Portland Mercury comment section and was rebuffed. The three obvious shills for the Clampire (that does have a nice ring) are so earnest and annoying. I was really griped by the plaintive, “Why don’t you get some perspective” argument. The article linked to the official CoS site, and the writer noted that they called the number on the flyer, but no one called back.

          The CoS has every right to keep news and information to themselves. But they then forfeit the right to complain when the rest of the world fails to disseminate their preferred message.

    • Ze Moo

      http://www.kptv.com/

      http://www.katu.com/

      Two of portlands tv stations. Neither tv station or the portland tribune have much in the way of any scientology stories. I searched all three and found no mention of the idle mOrgs opening. All of them had nice stories and reviews of Jenna M Hills and Larrry Wrights books. The Dalai Lama’s visit was very well covered. I guess the dwarfenfürher isn’t ‘ecclesiastical’ enough…

    • 1subgenius

      Watch out they may arrange a photo op of these two world spiritual leaders.

    • monkeyknickers

      My dad is going up (he says). He’s an embarrassing loud mouth who uses un-ladylike words, so I have high hopes. He’ll have to learn to operate the camera on his phone, tho. I’m less hopeful on that score. Still – I am psyched.

      • Rita Gregory

        Fucking cool but I digress! Hope he figures out the camera, maybe he’ll get a shot of little Davey getting served!

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        I usually stop and ask 5 or 6 year olds to help me with any techie thing. They’re good.

    • stillgrace

      I’m waiting for news from Portland and trying to trying to keep my focus on that, however, you called DM “Corn COB”, and it just set me off down a J&D path. This is a recycled J&D.

      • SP ‘Onage

        I keep checking wwp for updates and pictures. The clams are getting desperate in light of all their legal troubles lately. I hope the courageous protesters are safe and are having a lulzy good time. 🙂

      • SciWatcher

        Hahahahaha!!!

    • SP ‘Onage

      The Dalai Lama has inspired people throughout the world. He was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1989. DM will never get that type of respect, evil men never do.

      Plus, the Dalai Lama doesn’t make you yell at ashtrays and he’s not afraid to talk to the media.

    • mirele

      Oh good, someone else noticed the Dalai Lama is in Portland. He’s a rock star compared to little Davey.

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    Well, somebody’s using Sup Powers to useless ends. Many of the posts and replies I have put up today have simply disappeared.

    I think.

    • Missionary Kid

      Wait. Some magically reappear, and some are lost in the galactic bit bucket.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Yes, I hope there’s a chance Tony will open up a new, separate thread for the Portland event.

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        <— Dreaming of a LIVE BLOG.

    • Artoo45

      Not so DDD. You are everywhere. That said, Teh Disqust is crazy-balky today.

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        I’m everywhere!?! Then… where am I?

  • jensting

    Well done, to everyone who reoplied to the Miss Manners cutout. You’ve just decreased the likelihood that the dicsussion here might be useful to a doubting victim of the mind-fuck perpetrated by the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology.
    Oh well, at least we’re having fun 🙂

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      I am just grateful it was such a ladylike conversation. Mercy.

    • monkeyknickers

      Sorry all. 🙁 I just wanted to say, um, Portlandfuckyeah. 🙂

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    Hee hee. Somebody up in Portland is paying attention. Here’s the “foursquare” listing for the Portland Ideal Org:
    https://foursquare.com/v/church-of-scientology–ideal-org/4c706dfafa49a1cd6336a6e3

    First, note that it is listed as a “Comedy Club.”

    Second, look at the comment.

    • Captain Howdy

      Ha, Ha.. Go /b/

    • VickiStubing

      Photos and comments have been added. Photos from TODAY!

  • This is not about an attack on religion. In America people can believe any thing they want, even of others consider it strange. This should be about behaviors. In America people are expected to have a common understanding of things like, truth, respecting the freedom and rights of others, being open and honest about fees charged for services, being honest about what those services are, etc. And when the rights of others are violated we should have a common understanding about the right and duty to prosecute in civil or criminal courts those behaviors which are illegal or unethical. .

  • I know we are all just waiting for the Main Event to occur so what better time to muse?

    I couldn’t sleep last night because I hit upon a stomach churning reality in my mind. A little over 63 years ago a broke con artist with some undefined ability to charm people created the magic bullet called Dianetics.

    Not content to allow his creation to be a flash in the pan, he conned more and more people into buying into his creations. His greed got the better of him and he created a multi-headed out of control monster called Scientology with its alphabet soup of hidden arms and legs each snaking out to snare more unsuspecting innocents in its web.

    By the time he died, there were people willing to lie, steal, go to jail, die all for this one man because of his ability to turn on the charisma when necessary and his willingness to surround himself with those who mad him look good.

    The horrors did not end with his death but were magnified by those without morals or conscience who saw the true power of this organism. In a fortunate move, the thug with the least morals who wrested control also had the least charisma.

    In the meantime, there is a huge battle going on on the outside between those who still believe LRH was on to something and just want to get rid of Miscavige, those who still think LRH had some valid points but question some of them, those who think the whole thing is a scam.

    Billions of dollars have been spent by so many people for the enrichment of so few.

    Today hundreds of thousands of people have suffered damage as a result of one man’s blathering, but the tide is finally turning. Miscavige has created his teeny army of fearful soldiers attempting to staunch the wounds he has caused to LRH’s creation inside Scientology.

    The army on the outside, though divided, and all damaged in one way or another by their choice to believe in Scientology, and united in their desire to see removed.

  • Bella Legosi

    Hey guys. Portland sure is busy. Been followed but only about two blocks, they put up arbavidas in the street and sidewalk to block off the view from the wogs. Kool aid drinkers ate inthe starbucks sucking the wifi, just past 5 supporters, the police are here and scilon security are watching us that have cameras, i have seen no buses but there are at least 500 people, they have evergreen trees in front of silverodo blocking he entire view

    Gonna go join up with the people…..so much more but i am doing this by phone

    • Midwest Mom

      Thanks! Stay safe, Bella!

      • Artoo45

        Go Bella!

      • Midwest Mom

        500 people is less than what a church in my small town would get for a dedication or re-dedication ceremony. This is quite a dismal number for a so-called “church” in a thriving city the size of Portland, especially since people were bused in from out of state.

        The Co$ is failing to convince anyone that it has a strong following in Portland.

        At least the Dalai Lama is allowing people to take photos at his events and has the Red Hot Chili Peppers performing today!

    • Captain Howdy

      Go Bella!

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Yes! And how can they legally put trees or block Silverado’s establishment?!!!

        • Captain Howdy

          Shit, if i was 20 yrs younger and I was there I would find a way to get up on one of those rooftops. I’ve climbed 20ft up drainpipes to get into shows before.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Helicopters. That is all. lol So You’re the guy who got in without payin’.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Thank you! Hungry for crumbs here, so don’t be a stranger!

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Pictures. Videos.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        I say they should get combat pay and if they come back with videos, gaudy trophies and buttons and stuff.

    • SP ‘Onage

      Have fun. Be safe!

      Please post pic’s.

    • aquaclara

      Thanks, Bella!

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Bella? Need to hear from you…

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    Anon apparently does have boots on the ground:
    https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/portland-ideal-morgue-opening-may-11-2013.109245/page-2

    This is where they were to meet, an hour ago. (And that is a statue in Pioneer Square downtown.)

  • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

    We in RTC are here in Portland reporting live as COB RTC David Miscavige presides over the historic Grand Opening of the Portland Ideal Org.

    Tens of millions of Church of Scientology parishioners from the 15,901 countries of the world have gathered to hear COB speak.

    http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a563/OTVIIIisGrrr8/NjMzg_zps743fdf6f.jpg

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Is that all the recent Narconon graduates? They look 99% refreshed and definitely not wooden anymore.

      • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

        The crowd here in Portland is very… Theta… and extremely upbeat as COB opens the 2,297,016th Ideal Org.

        The assembled parishioners are, naturally, expecting another mesmerizing and spellbinding performance from the ecclesiastical leader of the Scientology religion Mr. David Miscavige.

        …We in RTC take this opportunity to remind our billions of viewers out there in television-land that Mr. Miscavige is in no way involved in the daily operations of the Church and therefore cannot be deposed in the Garcia lawsuit…

        …The dignitaries are now being seated on the dais by Sea Org ushers…

        IAS Freedom Medal winner Mr. Jeff Pomerantz…

        Mr. Danny Sherman…

        Mr. Brian Culkin who, we understand, will be given the IAS Freedom Medal by COB at this evening’s festivities…

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Oh Brian will be there…. so That’s what those blue trash cans are for? And be sure to Mr. M not to pay Any attention to the nice man behind the curtain. snark

        • aquaclara

          Love this ringside seat…thanks. Any comment on the ecclesiastical press competition between the Dali Lama and COB?

          • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

            As a gesture of friendship between global religious leaders, COB sent Dale Lama a set of the Basics.

            We are certain that Dale Lama and his group will become Scientologists as did the Nation of Islam.

            • aquaclara

              Oh, yes. The Basics. What a way to inspire ecclesiastical kinship ness. And other nesses.

            • N. Graham

              Do you know if Mr. COB ever granted the private audience requests from Portland natives Matt Groening and Sally Struthers and of course, the Dali Lama, while he was in town?

        • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

          The “COB Puppet Theater” section of the program has just begun.

          The audience is enraptured to hear how evil Psych Bankers spirited away Shelly many years ago and that is why she is missing:

          http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a563/OTVIIIisGrrr8/DSCN1617_zps5399f347.jpeg

    • Midwest Mom

      It’s perfect, OTVIII! You are on fire!

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Livelier looking crowd then they get at the Shrine. Must be the bracing fresh air in Portland…

    • SP ‘Onage

      Can’t afford pants on a sea org salary.

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        I toldja they weren’t wearing underpants…

        • SP ‘Onage

          lol

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      And the staff (just one left, in the middle) and both public have now arrived. Let the games begin…

      [IMG]http://i41.tinypic.com/e9aefr.jpg[/IMG]

    • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

      Chill E.B. has now taken the stage to sing his smash hit, “Pop a cap in tha asses of the Psychs!

      http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a563/OTVIIIisGrrr8/Chill-EB-Drugging-Shirt_Edit11_zps92ea8847.jpg

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    Looks like the weather is cooperating (that’s gotta be for the Dalai Lama). So the COB won’t be needing his rain hat:

  • “…. asking for a refund makes you “Fair Game,” as L. Ron Hubbard explained: “The ex-student should realize this makes him Fair Game” (HCOPL 5 APRIL 1965, HCO Sec Hat HCO JUSTICE DATA RE ACADEMY & HGC)”

    This policy is listed on checksheets as:
    HCO PL 5 April 1965 Issue I, HANDLING THE SUPPRESSIVE PERSON, THE BASIS OF INSANITY

    The 1974 edition of the green volumes contains the version of the policy you have quoted in this blog article (1974 edition, OEC Vol 1, page 382):

    “…The ex-student should realize this makes him Fair Game and outside our Justice Codes. He may not have recourse of any kind beyond refund. And after signing can only return to Scienotlogy as per policy on Fair Game…..”

    Important history note, is the 1974 edition of the green volumes were printed at a time still very close to when “Fair Game” was very much on people’s minds as valid practice, it’d been used constantly for almost 10 years as of the 1974 printing of the green volumes. (And of course “Fair Game” continues to be used, but it’s just not used as a phrase by official Scientologists, all explained in detail in Hubbard’s own orders about “Fair Game.”)

    There is a very important policy justification given by Hubbard to use to revise his works. He ordered several dozen “stable data” (rules) for the compilations personnel who were responsible to ensure his stuff was revised.

    The degree to which those compilations personnel and executives, over the decades, have taken it upon themselves to apply Hubbard’s orders allowing revisions in policies, is a huge needed study and paper or chapter, to lay out to experts. It’s something I will try to write about, since long range, I believe laying out clearly the internal options that the movement compilations people and executives at the top, have the rights and duties to revise Hubbard’s works, is something that only those well informed of the options, and also informed of the loopholes and some of the most key policy long range statements of Hubbard’s need all be balanced in the mind of the future compilations officers and executives who dare revise Hubbard’s big policy directions.

    This is absolutely relevant to full discussion of where Scientology is headed, long range,

    The movement is lacking leaders who can think with all that Hubbard wrote that was their responsibilities, and the limited options/loopholes he left them to reform his bad policies.

    I’ve tried for years to tell about the long list of writings by Hubbard, governing how to revise and reissue his writings,

    Hubbard did allow some major policy revision options.

    It takes brighter smarter top management members who can overcome all the obstacles to accomplish sane internal reform of Hubbard’s bad policies though.

    There has NOT been leaders at the top with sufficient intellectual powers and persuasion to propose the big reform solutions to the other top council members (WDC is one council, above Exec Strata, but Exec Strata ought to be the brains, the real “think tank” that comes up with the proposed solutions). RTC never had any bright theoretical smarty pants in them, in the 1980s through the 1990s, and it wasn’t their job to come up with the strategic proposals to deal with Scientology’s self caused biggest problems.

    Hubbard’s final top setups placed the “think tank” people in Exec Strata with the jobs of nuts and bolts biggest theoretical responsibility, for the movement, I have argued for years, to deaf ears out here.

    Hubbard ordered rules and options for revising Hubbard’s works.

    Exec Strata never was staffed with individuals capable of the roles they ought perform.

    Hubbard gave in principle, to ED Int, the job of dealing with administrative arbitraries.

    Guy White and any other ex Exec Strata members who remember LRH’s traffic to Guilliume Leserve I hope someday writes in detail what he remembers of that LRH traffic.

    There is ample evidence of Hubbard through his career, giving others’ proposed successful actions that the various administrators implemented which “worked”, and Hubbard would then give those successful actions the stamp of policy approval. Some ex administrators when they got out, and could speak freely have said they felt in some ways ripped off by Hubbard just putting their successful actions into church policy under his name, and not giving them credit.

    Scientology experts will read many stories from many contemporaries of Hubbard of the 1950s and 1960s, even James Byrne, the today “Estates Project Force In Charge” (boot camp for new Sea Org recruits in Los Angeles) told me his own story, he told me this story in 1988, of how it was he who came up with the policy for one esoteric point about asking course room students if they had enough sleep, and if the students say no, that Bryne put them on admin work in the org. Byrne said Hubbard took Bryne’s report of Bryne’s successful actions and had those actions turned into class room policy (which is why I myself was curious of what exactly preceded Hubbard writing those actions into policy), which led me to Bryne, who told me how that policy came about. Course supervisors around the world in churches use this Byrne devised successful action for dealing with student with insufficient sleep in the class rooms.

    Expert policy nerds know that Hubbard wrote a whole slew of important rules for publishing and re-publishing his works. Most relevant when republishing his writings, certain Hubbard ordered revisionist rules apply to whomever republishes his writings.

    The two word toxic hated concept, “Fair Game”, was ordered expunged as a phrase, but the loophole of allowing it to continue in practice is a well understood and a rightly hated aspect Scientology continues to implement today on its critical ex members and enemies.

    But just for the history books, and for experts, the “Fair Game” two word toxic phrase has been expunged in writing, per Hubbard’s explicit orders, which is why the quoted sentence above, is not currently read in the current revisions of this exact Hubbard policy.

    In the 1991 edition of OEC Vol 1 (green volume 1) is:

    “…The ex-student should realize this puts him outside our Justice Codes. He may not have recourse of any kind beyond refun. And after signing can only return to Scienotlogy as per HCO PL 23 Dec. 65RB, SUPPRESSIVE ACTS, SUPPRESSION OF SCIENTOLOGY AND SCIENOTLOGISTS.”

    The difference is expunging the toxic two word phrase, “Fair Game.”

    As ordered to be removed from future published writings, by Hubbard.

    I’m a glass half full type of person, and think like I hope some future Exec Strata well educated future strategy leader of Scientology’s “think tank” I hope someday thinks, when he/she contemplates proposing revising disconnection policy.

    Hubbard’s PR policy, the policy the PR students must clay demo EACH single word of this following Hubbard PR quote:

    HCO PL 18 Nov 1970 PR DEFINITION

    page 54, Management Series Volume 3, 1991, 2001 edition, page 1000:

    “…Every word in it should be clay tabled.

    “THE DUTY AND PURPOSE OF A PUBLIC RELATIONS MAN IS:

    “THE INTERPRETATION OF TOP MANAGEMENT POLICY TO THE DIFFERENT PUBLICS OF THE COMPANY—TO ADVISE TOP MANAGEMENT SO THAT POLICY IF LACKING CAN BE SET—TO MAKE THE COMPANY, ITS ACTIONS OR PRODUCTS KNOWN, ACCEPTED AND UNDERSTOOD BY THE DIFFERENT PUBLICS—AND TO ASSIST THE COMPANY TO EXIST IN A FAVORABLE OPERATING CLIMATE SO THAT IT CAN EXPAND, PROSPER AND BE VIABLE.” – .L Ron Hubbard.

    For years as a training course supervisor, PR trainees did this above clay table exercise, and I gave the pass on their clay table. I thus myself knew its importance.

    The above IS what is expected, and it was and is an impossible task, due to all the other Hubbard rules, and the fads that go on and have gone on all through Scientology top management history.,

    And the reason PR people fail, is Hubbard’s very limited allowance for revising his policies, the policies that cause the unfavorable climate surrounding Scientology and it’s reputation.

    The crux of why Scientology remains so troublesome, to itself, lies in Hubbard’s very limited windows for change, internally, in his own backlash causing rules.

    But “Fair Game” was a tiny cosmetic example of “change”, and it is important to understand the “change” was cosmetic, and still today, the counter attacks and legalistic tactics against ex members are still continuing per the whole slew of still existent other detailed policies, including the one this blog quotes.

    My only continued point, is that it takes some really bright well educated and thoroughly experienced and history minded persons, articulate, themselves able to fend their way in the top ranks, and think their way through all of the limits at the top management levels of Scientology, to deal with the big issues for why Scientology is hated.

    1991 edition, OEC Vol 2 (green volume 2) page 130, is the biggest highest level of responsibility that NO “top management” person after Hubbard’s death, has ventured to this level of responsibility, to deal with the entrenched policy problems left by Hubbard:

    “As we write out admin up in books, business will use it all the more. But the point is, we lead in this field, others follow. We only develop and use Scientology admin to help us as we go toward freedom. But we still use it and only it. Because it’s more modern and it’s what we need.

    “The thing to guard against in releasing teaching and admin policy letters is the change factor. Teaching and admin evolved with our formative years. Thus, patterns and policies, like our tech, grew better. Growing better, some of it became obsolete.

    “When rereleasing an old policy letter, always blue pencil out everything gone old and contradicted by later policy letters.” – L. Ron Hubbard

    A whole more fuller paper ought be done on this policy above, and the full context this policy relates to how to reform Scientology, internally.

    This above quoted policy is one of the most major loopholes, that top management, top PR people, the Exec Strata “think tank” future leaders of Scientology need to contemplate and rise to that level of maturity and responsibility to reform what is wrong with Scientology.

    It’s not happened, and likely won’t happen, for a decade or more, if ever, only because of the talent that is required by top management staff, to even rise to this level of taking seriously how to reform Hubbard’s bad policies, to last long enough within the top management setups, to even get to the point of thinking one can or should revise Hubbard’s major bad policies, takes so long, most are derailed and ejected or self-eject out and lose their right to even bring about the needed major movement changes.

    Even that Hubbard wrote this immediately above policy on 4 March 1965, a mere month before he burst out with the “heavy ethics” policy that this blog article quotes, is important context, and while dull, this is exactly the level of detail that a future Exec Strata “think tank” member I hope someday thinks about.

    I’m going to be doing two papers, my first will be just about the Hubbard Corpus, a summary and introduction. And a second paper on Scientology top management history.

    I’ve thought about writing a small book, “Advice to Exec Strata, How to Reform Scientololgy, Your Options”. That would be my hindsight free advice, how to internally reform Scientology.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      I think you did just write a small book…

    • 1subgenius

      Thanks Chuck, you’re awesome.

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    So… the CoS has spent the morning intimidating one of their new neighbors…

    http://tonyortega.org/2013/05/11/mark-bunker-removed-from-filming-site-at-portland-event/

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      I get 500 server error, but I see Mark Bunker got kicked out from area, trying to film, is that right?

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        Bunker had permission from the owner of the business across the street, who was then so unnerved by the CoS goons that he changed his mind. And the CoS whines about “intimidation” by Anonymous.

  • Even though Hubbard with few exceptions, hated lawyers.

    Hubbard’s bloated writer grandiose ideas of himself, as inspiring, I think lawyers who “helped” Scientology were also of the bloated large ego types!

    The Crusade era was sickening to live through, from my viewpoint, as a Sea Org member, so many bad speeches about religious liberty, when we knew Hubbard was all about using words for just PR purposes.

    It was all about saving the practice of Scientology’s right to practice its pseudo-spiritual-enlightenment-exoricism quack therapy as religion.

    Hubbard honed his inspirational “fire” writing style as a pulp writer.

    In one of the most important Hubbard policies for scholars to study of Hubbard’s, for understanding and grading “top management” for being able to rise up to Hubbard’s grand statndards as movement leaders, is th HCO PL 4 March 1965RA Issue II, TECHNICAL AND POLICY DISTRIBUTION,

    OEC Vol 2 (green volume 2), pages 125 – 132.

    What struck me most, when reading Hubbard’s grand strategic long range policies about how to even write and distribute and revise his policy, is how no one in the movement’s history ever successfully rose to the standards he outlined and allowed them. All top management personnel have failed, and the only top manager who is a joke in my opinion, David Miscavige, is that Miscavige has prevailed by discrediting and demoting and deposing and ejecting or driving the other whole long history of the last 30 years of attempts by the fellow top managers, to rise to the still unfulfilled levels of skills that Hubbard outlined for top managers.
    (One private despatch regarding the late 1970s management top managers from Hubbard screeched “…management has failed for the millionth time…..”—this screeching condemnation is one Hubbard scathing attitude that Miscavige unfortunately got drilled into his psyche, for which I’m pretty sure when Miscavige was beating up top Int Base managers, Hubbard’s scathing words likely rung in the back of Miscavige’s mind)!

    It would be a young person’s challenge of a lifetime, to venture into Scientology, rise up the staff ranks, try to take it all seriously, and pull off reforming Hubbard’s bad policies, internally. It is of course to a normal person a complete waste of a lifetime, but if one is a Scientologist and believes in eternal future lives, then one could even think and believe that any amount of time spent on Sea Org staff, which helps the movement, or might someday lead to a significant reform of Hubbard’s bad policy rules from a top management position (PR, Exec Strata are the two places Hubbard gives license to advise policy change).

    Maybe the billion years contract mentality is needed, I’m sure it’s been a passing thought of most failing Sea Org staff, that there are plenty of lifetimes in the future, to try one’s hand again, in the Sea Org. “Next lifetime, or in a couple lifetimes, ahead, I’ll maybe join the Sea Org again….maybe.”

    I’ve thought of writing a small free booklet “What You Might Think About Before Joining the Sea Org”, and seriously lay out LRH quotes about what LRH really expects, more fully than the hype new recruits today are deluged with by the Sea Org recruiters. But give a young person what really is needed to seriously even attempt within the Hubbard allowed limits, what the movement’s real big problems are, and what they could do about it, from the inside, if they really take ALL of what Hubbard even wrote they should do!

    Hubbard bursts his own bubble, when one reads what he wrote, and compares it to the history of the movement’s top management members, and even compares it to the star membership.

    And in Lawrence Wright’s book, the admission of Hubbard to Steven Pfauth, that LRH admitted he felt he failed, is such an important new exposed piece of Hubbard Scientology history.

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    Mark Bunker is now shooting video from the roof of Silverado (the gay bar). Video is over here:

    http://tonyortega.org/2013/05/11/mark-bunker-removed-from-filming-site-at-portland-event/#comment-893269253

    • Jgg2012

      A merchant of choas in a gay bar? Davey won’t like that.

  • If only more senior execs of the time period of Miscavige’s rise could be coaxed to fill in the details.

    There’s so much more important history, and Miscavige being put on a Mission as a subordinate, and then due to the superiors falling from grace, Miscavige then slipped up the command channels, which is just one of the continuing problems of all bureaucracies, no matter what organization.

    Miscavige was there when his superiors fell by the wayside.

    I remember when Miscavige and Steve Marlowe came to the Flag Landbase to give Flag Bureaux/Commodore’s Staff Aides a briefing of what they were doing. Both were of the original RTC setup, this was 1981-83, at the West Coast Building (the WB), and Marlowe, who was never a top manager until that moment (Marlowe was the Flag Recuiter for West US for the Apollo for years as his best loved position in Sea Org history up to that point in Marlowe’s career), and the arrogance and ignorance of management history even in the flawed Hubbard limited “management tech” arena, was unbelievable.

    No one in RTC’s history was a good manager, not a single one, in my opinion, as green volume training course supervisor who watched the earlier “failed for the millionth time” era of Apollo vet managers.

    Three was a massive brain drain of honestly better outside world educated “top managers” who all left when Miscavige and the first round of RTC staff assumed their top roles as replacements.

    The whole late 1970s “failed management” story is just hugely more detailed than Jon has ever written.

    We need all of the LRH traffic all through that period, the biggest vacuum that let Miscavige rise to power, was the leaving of more well educated and skilled Apollo vintage managers, who were gone by 1982.

    Miscavige was top errand boy, catching up these last several decades, as he gradually rose to his “only one” role today as sole l strategic decision making skill (never arriving even anywhere to the level of the “failing managers” of the Apollo era).

    Hubbard’s late 1970s top management, see the green hardback dictionary and see the LRH ED of the mid to late 1970s which introduced the then “new” team of top management, there was a whole coordinated grouping of top management units, the LRH Comm Network, the Flag Reg network, the Flag Bureaux, the Commodore’s Staff Aides. Who was in what position, who got what strong Hubbard orders to do what in their zones, and then the whole transitional phase when the Exec Strata, which went though several incarnations, Bill Franks as the head of the first two incarnations of the Exec Strata, just all esoteric by extremely important, as the late 1970s and beginning 1980s era of top management just was bleeding Apollo vet managers left right and center, while the likes of Miscavige and others who were miles from being up to speed to take over from those departing, and amidst Hubbard’s scathing screeching condemnations, condemnations that ultimately the failed and departing Apollo vet managers themselves were condemned for just repeating Hubbard’s condemnation of them! The Catch 22 most dramatic mind screwing period in the movement’s 60 years history of top management was the late 1970s and early 1980s, during the mass exodus of the Apollo vets, including the Class 12s who departed and the top managers who bailed at that time!

    The history of top management is way more detailed than any journalist has even attempted.

  • Midwest Mom

    Davey truly does have a lot to be worried about with the Dalai Lama’s visit to Portland, now. The Portland area is seeing a significant growth in the interest and participation in the study, practice, and spirituality of Buddhist philosophy, which is a huge threat to Scientology.

    Maitripa College opened up in Portland in 2006 as Maitripa Institute and is working toward accreditation. It offers classes and events for the public and its student participate in many charitable organizations alongside other community members and religious groups.

    The fact that compassion is an important part of the Buddhist philosophy as well as developing a good heart, tolerance, forgiveness and joy make it more appealing than Scientology, especially since you do not have to go through auditing and won’t have your confidential information recorded and used against you. It’s also less expensive and more socially acceptable.

    Davey is scared that he’ll lose his cash cows. He should be scared – there isn’t much interest in Scientology anymore.

    • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

      COB RTC David Miscavige is not worried about Dale Lama’s R6 implant religion.

      What COB is actually concerned about is an attack by wild bears.

      We in RTC understand that, as part of Canada, Portland has wild bears that attack people.

      • Jgg2012

        “as part of Canada, Portland has wild bears”

        NO OT8 NO! Don’t you read John P’s posts? Canada is the rural district in NY state. Portland is in Oregon, another state.

        “What COB is actually concerned about is an attack by wild bears.”

        NO OT8 NO! COB is not afraid of bears, he is afraid of being bared (i.e. being exposed).