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Jon Atack Considers L. Ron Hubbard’s Tangled Relationship With Mind-Altering Substances

LRHHumanitarianCoverJon Atack is the author of A Piece of Blue Sky, one of the very best books on L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology. He has a new edition of the book for sale, and on Saturdays he’s helping us sift through the legends, myths, and contested facts about Scientology that tend to get hashed and rehashed in books, articles, and especially on the Internet.

Jon, you’ve previously made some references to L. Ron Hubbard and drug use. But this week you wanted to take a closer look at what the man had to say about mind-altering substances and relate it to his development of Scientology. We figure we’re in for another wild ride, so take it away.

JON: Scientology promotes itself as utterly anti-drug, yet this was by no means the attitude of the Founder, who was much more in line with current, progressive “harm reduction” ideas. In 2010, the prestigious medical journal The Lancet published the largest survey of the social and individual harms of drugs to date, which concluded that the most dangerous drug in our society is alcohol. No one at Narconon or Say No to Drugs jumped up to point out that this reflected their own ideologue’s policy, but here it is, as stated in his 1950 work, Dianetics: the Modern Science of Mental Health:


Alcohol is rarely an assist to the auditor. In fact, alcohol is rarely an assist to anyone. A depressant, classifiable at best as a poison, alcohol has the single virtue of being highly taxable….Alcoholism is engramic. It has become, in some very understandable way, a class of contagious aberration whereby the reactive mind confuses alcohol and “being a good sport” or “having fun” or “forget your troubles.” Some of these things can also be obtained by strychnine and cyanide. Alcohol has its uses: one can put specimens of frogs and such in it: one can clean the germs off needles with it: it burns well in rockets. But one would not consider preserving his stomach in a glass jar and, unless insane, does not think of himself as a needle. While some drunks think they act like rockets, few have been observed to reach an altitude of more than the floor. It is not only a poor stimulant-depressant, it is also an hypnotic in the finest sense: what is done to a drunk becomes an engram….Opium is less harmful, marijuana is not only less physically harmful but also better in the action of keeping a neurotic producing, phenobarbital does not dull the senses nearly as much and produces less after effect, ammonium chloride and a host of other stimulants are more productive of results and hardly less severe on the anatomy: but no, the engrams, contaging unpleasantly along from the first crude brew which made one of our ancestors drunk, decree that alcohol is the only thing which is to be drunk if a person wants to “forget it all” and “have a good time.”

Despite these protests in D:MSMH, Hubbard had his own problems with alcohol. Barbara Snader said that while Hubbard was having an extramarital affair with her, at the end of 1950, he was drinking a bottle of Scotch a day, and struggling with despair and he tried to come up with some new therapy ideas. He next kidnapped baby Alexis and took her to Cuba, where his drinking, according to Richard de Mille, continued apace, but using the local rum. De Mille committed Hubbard’s thoughts during this period to print, in Science of Survival.

While the cult promotes abstinence from all except alcohol and tobacco — the second most dangerous drug in terms of ill health — it is also interesting to note that Hubbard advocated amphetamines, in the early years, as an aid to concentration in “processing:” “Benzedrine and some other commercial stimulants have been used with some success…” L. Ron Hubbard Jr. insisted that he was given speed by his dad for the “research” that would become Scientology: A History of Man.

THE BUNKER: Well, that helps explain a few things. We have to step in here and plug our reading of A History of Man with biologist and blogger PZ Myers, which was one of our favorite recent experiences. As you were saying, Jon…

JON: In one lecture, Hubbard bemoaned his own addiction to phenobarbital, which he struggled with throughout the creation of both Dianetics and Scientology. His last attempt to procure this powerful barbiturate came in 1965, when he tried to fill a prescription signed “Dr Hubbard” at an East Grinstead pharmacy. Of his earlier attempt to kick the habit, Hubbard said: “I made myself a guinea pig on one of those experiments, and trying to get off the soporific was a tough job. Completely aside from the physiological reaction, when one suddenly ceases to take phenobarbital one gets the kick-in of the locks. It is like hypnotizing a person, and giving him a positive suggestion, then waking him up. Here he has been listening for ten hours a day to engrams, engrams, engrams, and for a few days he doesn’t know whether he’s going or coming or walking around the block. That’s pretty gruesome.” (Research and Discovery, volume 1, p.124, first edition).

Hubbard had been given phenobarbital for his ulcers, back in the Navy, so his affair with them lasted for at least twenty years. His interest in drugs reached back long before his unglamorous navy career, however. Hubbard reckoned that his spiritual discoveries began in Spring 1938, when he had an out-of-body experience during an operation to remove his wisdom teeth. He claimed that he was dead for eight minutes, while under anaesthetic. The anaesthetic in question was nitrous oxide. In D:MSMH, Hubbard recommended the drug, thus: “nitrous oxide makes an excellent hypnotic for institutional [dianetic] therapy,” yet, on the same page, we find a warning, “Nitrous oxide engrams are particularly bad when they involve exodontistry; they often form the most severe late life engram.” (p.363). Hubbard said that during his eight dead minutes he saw a “smorgasbord” of knowledge, and that the command for him to forget this, when he was returned from the Pearly Gates, failed to take. From this experience came his revelation that survival is the fundamental drive of humanity, and he wrote his first text, “Excalibur,” to expound upon this principle.

ScientologyMythbustingWilliam Sargant, a well known psychiatrist, was labeled the “number one SP” in Britain by the Guardian’s Office, but that didn’t stop Hubbard from keeping a copy of his seminal Battle for the Mind in his office at the Washington, DC, Founding Church. After writing that fascinating text (which discusses what Hubbard was reading in the library at Oak Knoll Hospital, back in 1945 — Grinker and Spiegel’s work), Sargant travelled the world, observing the effects of various different rituals, which, in his opinion, were better at relieving minor mental illnesses than the techniques employed by psychiatrists. The Mind Possessed is a compendium of trance-inducing techniques, from Haitian Voodou to Christian snake-handling, which includes this insight into nitrous oxide: “Such revelations, whether they occur under drugs or during a schizophrenic illness, carry with them a certainty which can override the normal intellectual standards and attitudes of the person experiencing them.”

Sargant goes on to give descriptions of experiences under the influence of nitrous oxide. One patient spoke of “…everlasting hell. I lost all consciousness of my surroundings…It was this experience of being ‘caught in eternity’ which…I shall never forget as long as I live.”

Another patient wrote, “I thought I was near death; when suddenly my soul became aware of God, who was manifestly dealing with me, handling me, so to speak, in an intense personal present reality. I felt him streaming in like light upon me…I cannot describe the ecstasy I felt…[then] to find that I had after all no revelation, but that I had been tricked by the abnormal excitement of my brain…Is it possible that the inner sense of reality which succeeded, when my flesh was dead to impression from without, to the ordinary sense of physical relations, was not a delusion, but an actual experience? Is it possible that I, in that moment, felt what some of the saints have said they always felt, the undemonstrable but irrefragible certainty of God?”

Sargant goes on to quote from Professor J.H. Leuba, who says, “The universality of the mystical conviction is frequently offered as proof of its truth. But the truth of a belief is not proved by the fact that it is shared by all known men, most users of narcotics and many of the subjects of spontaneous trance regard its contents just as they do their dreams, i.e. as having no other than subjective reality.”

Sargant further cites Sir James Crichton-Browne’s comments on the nitrous oxide experience: “In persons of average mental calibre they are pleasant and stimulating but in no way remarkable; but in persons of superior mental power they become thrilling and apocalyptic. A working man describes it as if he had had a little too much beer, and a philosopher announces that the secret of the universe had been, for one rapt moment, made plain to him.”

I dwell upon this subject, because it is the moment of genesis for all of Hubbard’s spiritual revelations. Could it be that Dianetics and Scientology were simply Hubbard’s attempt to regain the ecstasy of those eight minutes? It is certainly true that his own guru, Aleister Crowley, threw his life into the pursuit of drug experiences, along the way creating the hypnotic method renamed by Hubbard “creative processing,” but Crowley fell down the vortex of drug use, ending up hopelessly addicted to heroin, where Hubbard found himself at the centre of an adulating cult, and kept very, very quiet about his continuous drug use.

We have to be suspicious of the techniques used by Narconon, as they clearly didn’t work for Hubbard. During filming in La Quinta, Hubbard complained that he could not quit smoking. Kima Douglas testified that when she gave up on him, he had cut down from 120 to 100 unfiltered cigarettes a day. Others who knew him (but would rather remain unharassed) have said that he talked about taking LSD, too.

I’ve come to expect that any claim by Hubbard will have an equal and opposite reality. This is certainly the case with drugs. And I hear that David Miscavige, like Hubbard is both asthmatic and a chain-smoker. Maybe he should try a breath of nitrous oxide, though I think a bottle of valium would probably be more useful.

 
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Marty_Rathbun4Latter-Day Marty Rathbun, Explained

Marty Rathbun’s battles with Scientology, where he was once the second-highest official and David Miscavige’s right hand man, are pretty well known to the readers of this blog. And never more than today, when he is involved with his wife Monique’s lawsuit against Miscavige in what is turning out to be a major legal showdown.

But we tend to write less these days about Rathbun’s blog, “Moving On Up A Little Higher,” which, from its start in 2009 through 2011, was the center of the universe as far as Scientology’s crisis of faith. Rathbun regularly posted astounding internal documents from the church in those years, revealed the identities of longtime members who were announcing their independence, and in other ways his blog was the place to go for breaking news as Scientology faced its greatest challenges ever.

But in recent months, as Rathbun shifted his focus to a series of very interesting books (we were critical of the first, loved the second, and we were frustrated with the third), his blog has been transformed, becoming more philosophical and esoteric. We’ve said in the past that we give Rathbun a lot of credit for challenging not only the Church of Scientology’s management, but also the ideas that underpin it, including raising questions about its founder, L. Ron Hubbard.

Now, a fascinating new article in NYU’s online publication about religion, The Revealer, takes a closer look at Rathbun’s evolution as a religious thinker, and we think writer Don Jolly’s done a great job.

Visiting Rathbun in Texas in June, Jolly understood that Rathbun has been on a personal journey that has put him at odds not only with the church, but even other independent Scientologists: “Rathbun has been expanding his horizons, reading voluminously and sussing out Hubbard’s potential influences and interlocutors, a controversial practice even among Independents, many of whom still believe the founder is peerless.”

 
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Posted by Tony Ortega on October 26, 2013 at 07:00

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If you’d like to help support The Underground Bunker, please e-mail our webmaster Scott Pilutik at BunkerFund@tonyortega.org

 

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  • DodoTheLaser

    Phenobarbital doesn’t count, is it? Never mind.

    • Miss Tia

      I had a kitty who was epileptic and he was on phenobarb, pretty high dose too. He was always very mellow, cheerful but it affected his bowels so he basically had a lot of leakage (TMI I know). Every time I read about phenobarb though I always think of Mamushka Bob (though I think of him at other times too! :)

      • SciWatcher

        Speaking of sick kitties–how’s the one you took to the vet yesterday?

        • Miss Tia

          i think the depo shot is working as she’s not sitting with her head hanging down (that’s how she deals with her asthma, no coughing and as the dr. said, with her being semi-feral, she’d be more apt to ‘hide’ the asthma silently like that)…..the dr. said her lungs were sounding wheezy so i’m sure in a few more days she’ll be A LOT better!! thanks for asking!! :)

          • SciWatcher

            Glad to hear it. It can be stressful when our furry or feathered friends are ill!

            • Miss Tia

              Indeed it can be!!

  • Miss Tia

    Morning y’all!!! Gotta read the article about Marty while I have coffee cup #2! :)

    Do most scientologists even REALIZE the extent of LRH’s drug use?! How do they reconcile that in their mind? I mean, even the visteril he was on at the time of his death, do they just ignore this?

    Only sent one tweet this AM, since I sent a bunch at bedtime last night and this one I thought of as I got into bed and ALMOST turned the computer back on for, but figured, nah, I’ll wait!

    Aside from whales, some day I hope SQUIRRELS are fully free too @kirstiealley

    • EnthralledObserver

      lol – Good one – you’re right, that was almost worth getting out of bed and re-loading the computer!

      • Miss Tia

        I really almost did!!! But figured I’d just send it this morning! :)

    • Drat

      They don’t know about it. You might as well ask if the North Koreans even realise how bad off they are compared to the rest of the world. Probably they don’t, as mind-boggling as it seems.

      LRH is glorified over and over and over at the very tedious birthday events. It’s a carefully cultivated one-sided picture.

      • Miss Tia

        Ah, thank you. I mean, there’s writings by him about this, but I guess if they are kept from that, that makes sense. The comparison to North Korea is a good one and unfortunately very apt.

      • Once_Born

        When the last North Korean ‘clone leader’ died, footage was released of the public {grieving} hysterically.

        It seemed to me that people were struggling to outdo each other in expressions of grief – one person sobs, another cries out loud, the next weeps and wails. Why? because they knew they were being watched (or might be informed upon). Nobody wanted theirs to be the only facet in the crowd that looked as if it didn’t care. North Koreans may not know what is going on in the rest of the world, but they certainly do understand that they have to conform or die.

        The North Korean people are not stupid, nor deficient in human feeling. They know that something is terribly wrong, but they can’t express that knowledge because they are trapped in a Society that would imprison, torture, or kill them for doing so.

        So it is with Scientology. The people who are cheering at those birthday events know they are being watched and are watching each other. Many of them know that there is something terribly wrong with this situation, but don’t want to be sent to {ethics}, or be ‘disconnected’ by friends and family. They suppress and rationalise their doubts, because they can’t afford to express them.

        History shows that this oppressive situation arises spontaneously in almost any closed society with an absolute leader. ‘Ron’ didn’t invent mind control (nor understand it either). What happened? – his manipulative narcissism enabled him to persuade a group of people to accept him as their guru, and isolate themselves from their own society. The situation is what gave Ron power. From this, all else follows.

      • John P.

        These days, the North Koreans are smuggling in DVDs of South Korean soap operas. Some of the ones in the North are also getting wireless internet service from China. It’s a lot harder than it used to be for the government to keep up the credibility of their propaganda than ever before. They are being forced to give Internet access to their most loyal citizens. Even though it’s heavily censored, things will still leak. And that will be their downfall, just as the cult’s downfall was the Intenet…

        Incidentally, if Miscavige doesn’t get back to work on the events business, there won’t be a Birthday Event next year to present all that one-sided propaganda about the Hubster.

        • Once_Born

          Still, it’s a very risky business for both smuggler and viewer – and the internet access is so heavily monitored that it’s less a ‘window on the world’, and more an opportunity to offer party members enough rope to hang themselves.

          http://www.salon.com/2012/12/31/north_korea_cracks_down_on_knowledge_smugglers/

        • Party Hull!

          Scientology and North Korea are most certainly my two most read about subjects on the internet.*

          I think that says everything!

          It’s not a coincidence either, the parallels are there.

          I imagine it’s the same for a lot of people

          *(And that still stands even when factoring in all the football reading I do (soccer, for American readers)).

          • iCandy

            I shouldn’t be surprised that I’m not the only one who see parallels between North Korea and scientology: the infallible founder, pictures of the founder on the wall, the mythology surrounding the founder – and the people living as mental and physical prisoners!

          • StatusLevelUP

            Make sure to watch the VICE documentary videos of North Korea on You Tube. Hours of great footage.

            • Party Hull!

              Yes, I watched those and found them very interesting indeed. It seems several groups have now gone on these regime endorsed tours around the country and captured some fascinating stuff on film.
              It’s the emptiness of the country and Pyongyang that seems so strange, almost eerie. Like the Ideal Orgs!

        • NevahIn

          This is why I urge people to talk to others. It also goes a long way to explaining the success of Anonymous and others in recent years- it is the smashing of the information “blockade”. By putting info about Xenu and the rest out there, it acted as an “inoculation” as well- playing a role in cutting off new members.

          It seems to small, just objecting (saying “NO” the abuses) and sharing info by communicating to people, but the effect over time has been powerful.

          • ThetaBara

            Agreed. I think this has been the biggest success of Anonymous. Very few people who have heard of scientology take it seriously. They either think it is scary or laughable. Both by spreading information and by our physical presence at their orgs we interfere with recruiting. This has in turn enturbulated them greatly, as some of the old videos (from when they used to try to argue with and hassle the Anons) really illuminate.

            • GlibWog

              Theta.. You would laugh at me I watch anon videos for hours each night. I love them. I love Guy Fawkes Masks..Everytime I see them fighting to get their messages out..and carrying signs ..

              Just warms my heart. I have cried watching them..I have laughed while watching them.

              I would think that I would have got tired of watching them over and over I never do. I admire and respect them. They are my heroes.

            • ThetaBara

              Wouldn’t dream of it! Times have really changed and it’s great to have the video (and stills, etc) to document what has happened.

            • GlibWog

              Awww of course you wouldn’t.. and absolutely History in the making right in front of our eyes.. It’s a beautiful sight.

            • ThetaBara

              It can be very emotional. I’m never-in (and relatively new to raiding) but I carry with me the reasons we do it, and always think of those who can’t, even as we dance and giggle and pose for photos with tourists and eat caek. I like to say it’s Fun with a Purpose – just like those old Hilights magazines. :-)

            • GlibWog

              Oh Theta .. I love your Soul.

        • Poison Ivy

          John P, after reading Jon Atack’s “Blue Sky,” I realized there were many, many other court cases and verdicts against Scientology, another enormous exodus from the cult (the Mission Massacre in the early 1980’s) and many times when it looked like the whole thing was about to collapse under its own weight. In a moment of negativity, I thought, “Is this just another of those times?”
          But then…the internet. The internet.
          This IS different, right? This is really the beginning (or the middle) of the end of this abominable organization that we’re watching here?

          • tetloj

            I keep having those moments of hesitation but am comforted when those who experienced previous cases and departures say, yes, this time it is different and it is the internet that has made the difference.

          • Gerard Plourde

            There are three differences – The internet is a major factor in disseminating the evils the cult perpetrates and its importance is paramount.

            The second difference is the fact that Hubbard was still alive in the early 1980’s (he died in ’86). Since he was the infallible source and nothing new can be written by anyone, entropy began to set in when he died. The internet accelerates the effect.

            The third factor is the drying up of revenue – The IRS ruling of 1993 can be viewed as a stop-gap victory that protected the revenue source against the lack of expansion and probably kept things on an even keel for some time. I think that the crash of 2008 began to squeeze members and the campaign against Narconon is a further pinch.

          • Once_Born

            The Internet, definitely.

            Also, the fact that the themes that engaged the popular imagination in Hubbard’s day are now very dated. Hubbard’s writings still bang on about how to survive if the cold war turns hot, the threat of Soviet communism, the practice of lobotomy… all concerns that have passed into history.

            What does Hubbard or Miscavige have to say about the issues that concern people today – genetic engineering, economic recession, the surveillance state, ubiquitous computing or the social dislocations brought by the Internet? Sod all, that’s what.

            The organisation lost touch with the popular imagination a long time ago. Better yet, now that they know more about Scientology, the public is actively hostile (Tom Cruise gets booed by a crowd which represents a pretty representative cross-section of the American population).

            Simple test – is the average Scientologist getting older? If so recruitment is falling, or at a standstill.

          • John P.

            You’re right. The key distinction between other major meltdowns for the cult and the current situation is the Internet. The ability to ask Teh Google from your phone about Scientology means anyone today will have some idea what the organization is like that sends all those nice people out to ask you if you want a stress test.

            In other words, while the magnitude of the Mission Massacre purge was immense, those who left could be replaced in a reasonable time frame with new suckers because the information environment hadn’t changed much; few people outside the cult had heard of Scientology, and it would have been hard to research if you were curious. Today, there is no fresh meat, and there won’t be any more, probably not even if there’s a palace coup that replaces Miscavige with competent management.

            The other thing that is different today is the staggering ineptitude of cult management. Hubbard was an idiot when it came to really managing an organization but there were a bunch of reasonably capable underlings who could generally keep things moving in the correct direction. Not so today with Miscavige, who has so depleted his management bench to forestall a coup that all that remain are utter idiots. Thus, there are few barriers to making and implementing bad decisions at this point.

          • SignsOfSuccess

            Nah…SCN is stronger than ever.

            • Robert Eckert

              Yeah, you just postulate Anonymous, the Indies, and the Bunker away, and poof! they’re gone, right?

            • SignsOfSuccess

              Not gone for good, but on the way. The indies will be the first to vanish.

            • Robert Eckert

              Some of the indies are turning into thorough exes who despise every aspect of Hubbard’s teachings instead of continuing to think there is any value in Scientology, but I don’t see how that is a “win” for you.

            • Cat Daddy
            • ThetaBara

              Can’t you postulate a little faster? I could use the spare time.

            • Reality Scamz

              Oh that was a Great One, thank You!:)

            • StatusLevelUP

              You don’t realize that the Indies vanishing won’t help you. Once they see LRH as the fraud he was, they will be more awake and aware of the mental abuses they have suffered at the hands of Scientology. More lawsuits!

            • Poison Ivy

              Indies who wake up often become the most virulent of critics. And they have the inside dope on you, CO$.

            • Cat Daddy
            • Once_Born

              Well played, sir.

            • ThetaBara

              LOL!

        • MisterG

          John, you’re forgetting about (or omitting) the existence of standard broadcast radio. Radio waves cannot be censored and North Koreans in the border areas have been tuning in to Chinese and South Korean broadcasts for decades – often at considerable risk. And like with all human populations, word travels fast! Especially when there’s little to do and little to eat.

          The big difference between Scientology and these other, often-cited totalitarian regimes is a lack of geographical centralization. Kim Jong Un has North Korea, Jim Jones had Jonestown, even Col. Kurtz had that little Cambodian paradise, “75 klicks up the Nung river” The lack of tightly controlled borders undoubtably hinders Miscavige’s ability to tyrannize. He may rule Golden Era Productions with an iron fist, but the rest of his flock is spread far too thin for absolute control.

          Sadly, Pyongyang isn’t likely to fall anytime soon. That is, unless the younger Kim visits “Whoville” and his heart grows three sizes that day…

          • John P.

            Given that there is extensive radio jamming of signals coming from China and from South Korea, it has typically been very difficult to pick up radio broadcasts for the average North Korean citizen. And possession of a radio is basically a capital offense. However, cell phones and Internet devices are essentially “dual use,” harder to restrict to only politically approved purposes. Cell phones are easier to conceal than a radio set sensitive enough to be able to pick up stations that aren’t jammed. And Internet devices are almost always hackable so apps can be added that will pierce through many censorship technologies. Many Chinese citizens’ relatively simple procedures to pierce through their censorship operations are proof of this.

            You are right on in your observation that a population in a single location is easier to control than a membership roster that is in geographically dispersed locations (Hollywood, int Base, Flag, Saint Hill plus local orgs) and with a “public” population with greater mobility than the typical North Korean.

            Regarding your point that Pyongyang isn’t likely to fall soon, that is also correct. I think, however, that the regime is doomed and they increasingly know it. There have been several waves of purges since Nut Boy 3.0 took over, where it might have been reasonable to expect a single major wave of purges. I think Nut Boy 3.0 is dancing pretty fast to hang onto power as some of the higher level Party members are realizing that they are screwed unless they markedly change directions. The increasing policy towards providing high end consumer goods to loyalists (in the face of economic contraction and bad harvests the last two years) suggests that Kim and probably some other factions know the elite civilians in Pyongyang are getting restless.

            The end of North Korea will come, but will probably be like the end of the Soviet Union… Everyone in the West knew the USSR was doomed, but nobody predicted that the actual catalyst that sparked the end (the Solidarity strike in Poland) was the beginning of the end, and so nobody predicted accurately the date the Berlin Wall fell, even three months out. Same will happen here: the goverment is reasonably likely to fall within the next 10-15 years, but nobody will successfully predict when or what the actual catalyst will be (my bet is that it won’t be a full-scale war between North Korea and South Korea/US).

            • NevahIn

              I would offer only one correction- there has been some remarkably compact shortwave radios getting into NK from China. They are highly valued and still rare. Even an old Sony 7600GR is the size of a video tape, but can pick up the other side of the planet under good conditions. NHK Tokyo, Voice of America, ROC and PRC stations would be easy.

              Some radios capable of regional (nearby VOA/ROC/PRC/NHK relays) could be the size of a pack of cigarettes.

              This is not widely known. They are small, useful and are very miserly with their common batteries and can be rigged to run off a lot of different sources.

          • Casabeca

            Since he recently executed his former girlfriend, that road to Whoville seems far away, and his heart has only room to grow.

          • NevahIn

            As someone who has worked with and serviced radio equipment, I can fill in a few blanks.
            Historically, Broadcast Band (AM, FM or World Band) was useless for many in North Korea because their radios (mostly) had no dials- push-button or single station fixed tuning to local stations only. Even radios from other countries where tuned to a local station and had their dial cord cut at the border !

            So, until recent years, a North Koran could not just “turn the dial” for the most part. In fact, some missionary group was sending in highly prized tune-able radios with long life lithium batteries.

            In many parts of the country, a radio that can tune to any AM frequency would be prized and kept hidden. If it was World Band (shortwave) and could get foreign broadcasts, all the more so.

      • NevahIn

        John P. makes a good point about what is known as “information control”. By keeping people in the dark and uninformed / ignorant- it is far easier to control them.

        That is part of why Vaughn Young noted well before he died that the Internet will be the CoS’s “Waterloo”. Simply put, they cannot control the flow of information anymore.

        This has been a problem for North Korea as well as the CoS. The NKs had the norther border with China as a “safe” area, now it is porous (a sieve really) as far as information goes. In some important ways the Chinese border is a bigger problem than the DMZ is.

        • ThetaBara

          I just noticed that as I was re-reading Mark Ebner’s article from Spy Magazine – written in 1996. It’s finally happening!

          • NevahIn

            I clearly remember reading that article, when I got my copy in the mail back then.

      • Pepsicat

        Great analogy. I was reminded of Scientology when I saw a documentary National Geographic Inside North Korea.

    • Patty Moher

      Anyone that calls themselves a Scientologist believes that Hubbard’s drug use is a lie and enemy lines. To believe otherwise would mean they are no longer a Scientologist. The facts can not be reconciled with the Scientology mindset.

      • Miss Tia

        Thank you. It’s really a shame they can’t realize/recognize the TRUTH. Sad.

      • Simi Valley

        I have a little anecdote that might throw some light on the “Scientology mindset.”

        In early 2012 (when I was under the radar and secretly preparing to bail), I was living in a rooming house for Scientologists in LA. I was cleaning out my room and throwing a lot of crap, and one of the items I threw out was a DVD of Hubbard’s life story. Since I already knew that the version of his life story that the culties get is complete fabrication anyway, why not just toss it, right? So I pitched it in one of the recycling dumpsters for our building.

        Now this DVD had been made and distributed some months earlier at one of the Int Events as a special free gift to the clams. Something “free” gotten from the cult is very rare indeed, so everyone was watching this DVD and exclaiming over how wonderful it was, how beautiful, blah blah. I had stopped attending events but the cult mailed me a copy of the DVD anyway, which is how I came to have a copy in my room.

        I thought after I threw the DVD into the dumpster, that would be the end of it. But no — one of the other housemates had rifled through the dumpster and pulled out this DVD. He brought it into the house and showed it to another housemate, and together they got all huffy and pissed off that someone in the house would dare throw this treasure out.

        • Poison Ivy

          (Shakes head in sadness.)

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Scientology died off several years ago. It is only those who have long ago agreed to lock their minds up in that proverbial bubble that haven’t even noticed. And it isn’t until something pricks their personal balloon that they wake up and realize there is nothing there but a skulking salesman for Miscavige’s retirement fund, which he likes to refer to as IAS, Intl Assoc of Salesmen.

          • Poison Ivy

            Yes. That is all Scientology has become – David Miscavige’s lavish “golden parachute.”
            And all you still in – yes you, SignsOfSuccess – are his cash cows.

        • Miss Tia

          Wow, my overriding thought is, why were your roommates going thru the trash/recycling?! That right there is a creepy thought for me! Or maybe it was just on top and they saw it when they went to throw something else out.

          That also makes me think of when in Going Clear, the book by Lawrence Wright, he describes the TRUTH about LRH’s military history and yet CO$ maintains the fiction and even has those fake medals.

          Gee, what would they do if there was a protest in front of a CO$ locale and people ripped up LRH books? :) I mean, I try to be respectful of beliefs and could never ever see myself desecrating a Bible or Koran, etc…..but a LRH book? Um, yeah.

          I wonder if they have gotten to the point of sending out free DVDs to try to entice and/or further keep people in due to all the defections? Hmmm….

        • Pepsicat

          Yeah, when I was “in looking out” so to speak, I attended a Christmas party of scions. There was some CD release by the Golden Era Musicians of music – god, it was horrible elevator music. I bought ten of them because I had kids in the Sea Org who couldn’t go home until they met their sales quota – you know the routine… I wrapped them all up and gave them to Scion friends and received 12 back in gifts. So I’m at this party, and someone opens up their gift to get this CD and I literally laughed out loud. Then I turned to the recipient and said very sarcastically, “I’ll bet that’s just what you wanted.” Well I thought it was funny.

          • ThetaBara

            Buying ten, giving them away and and getting twelve back as gifts is even funnier. It’s sad, too, but sometimes you just have to laugh. Thanks for sharing your story.

          • GlibWog

            Pepsi.. that was sweet of you to buy from the kids. That is a Funny story….haha

        • aquaclara

          Glad you’re out and commenting here with us! This was an interesting story. Usually, when someone tosses an item into the trash, there it goes. But no-there is the scrutiny of trash and the chatter and criticism for tossing an item of dubious value…
          What crap.
          Nice departing shot, though.

    • SciWatcher

      Hahaha, that’s classic!

      • Miss Tia

        Free the squirrels! 😀

        • ThetaBara

          If you haven’t seen it yet, go onto youtube and search for sears squirrels ad. I don’t want to clutter up the comments by posting it again but it is a laugh riot!

  • http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/muslinger/ Jens TINGLEFF

    Thanks for using reasoning and actual information to give a context to L Ron Hubbard drug induced ravings, but I was already planning to stay off drugs and to continue to Laugh Out Loud at Hubbard’s nonsense, thank you very much. I wonder if this will set off the Indie Hubbard PR we had in here recently.

    Marty’s changes are interesting – pretty soon the only ones who believe that he wants to carry on an indie $cientology training empire will be the OSA bots on WWP. The passing of an era. I won’t miss it.

    • aquaclara

      It’s been good seeing Marty’s changes and personal transformation. Look at that great picture Tony posted. That speaks volumes right there. Especially in showing people the beauty and peace found in the outside world.

    • NevahIn

      I did not realize how much of this he wrote about so clearly. But then again, LRH’s sheer output means there is a LOT to search through !

    • ThetaBara

      Let us hope not. I asked him, again, what his intention was in coming here and engaging with us and he said something along the lines of “I just wanted to give my opinion, I had no idea there would be so many responses” like he’s never been on a comment board before. I just said yeah, that’s how it works – you give your opinion and anyone else may too.

  • Captain Howdy

    Before we truly get started I want to acknowledge Caturday

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rOjt2h1Gr8

    • aquaclara

      Down voting the Kinks?

      • Captain Howdy

        Down voting the Kinks on the Anon Sabbath of Caturday? BLASPHEMERS!

        • sugarplumfairy
          • Captain Howdy

            Great choice from the most UNDERRATED band of ALL-TIME.

            But you are SPF so I shouldn’t be suprised

            • Poison Ivy

              OH I get it now. “Sugar Plum Fairy”! I’m a little slow this morning.

            • sugarplumfairy

              And from you, that’s a huge compliment..

    • Poison Ivy

      You talkin’ to me?

  • aquaclara

    Jon, you’ve given us another fascinating look at the man behind the cult. We can see, among other things, that LRH’s unfortunate experience at the dentist influenced his attitudes towards dental care for the rest of his life, as well as for many Sea Org members. 100 cigarettes and a bottle of scotch a day…supporting a writing habit of some less than great books. And for the best line of yours, “I’ve come to expect that any claim by Hubbard will have an equal and opposite reality” -this is probably the finest statement about the odd underpinnings of Scientology.

    Love your books. Thanks.

    • Poison Ivy

      Ditto, Jon. “Piece of Blue Sky” is so meticulously researched and sourced, and so clearly organized. It’s a tremendous work. I read it years ago (along with Russell Miller) when I was still in my early “WTF???” phase about the cult and Hubbard. Reading your new edition now, in the middle of Scientology’s Armageddon, was a different and more nuanced experience.

      I’d love to hear more about Barbara Snader; can’t recall much about her.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Here’s some for ‘ya, PI. He was one of Hubster’s wimmen, in the girlfriend way, this one with a major in psychology..

        http://androvillans.wordpress.com/2011/07/06/ex-scientologist-story-215-hubbards-pr-assistant-and-lover/

        http://www.scs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/miller/interviews/barbkaye.htm

        • ThetaBara

          She says this: “I think he probably made up a lot of the case histories in the first Dianetics book. He was not academic and never did any research.”

        • Poison Ivy

          Hole, thanks for these links. This is quite amazing.

          “He told me that before he wrote Dianetics, because he had no background in psychology, he went to the University of Chicago library and asked for the latest book on psychology and read this book – that was the only thing he had ever read on the subject.”

          So.. LRH reads ONE book on psychology, decides he can do better (on a deadline, no less), wrote Dianetics…and then declares a billion year war on psychiatry.

          After reading ONE book.

          Pretty much standard LRH operating procedure.

        • Cat Daddy

          Has Tony ever done something about this, Alsoo fascinating stuff for The Lip TV

  • EnthralledObserver

    Hubbard the druggie… what a hypocrite!
    I have a few stories about my time (shortly after delivering babies) experiencing ‘the gas’… one, I got so high sucking on that tube whilst getting stiches my mind suddenly panicked about not being able to find my way back. Luckily my body reacted and pulled the mask from my mouth… weird.
    The second was my after my last baby, same thing, getting stiches… where, as I was high and it came to me that ‘of course there is a God… because look at this baby, look what He has created, how else could something so perfect and wondrous have come to be made…?’ Yeah, it took about three seconds of coming off the DRUG to come to the conclusion that revelations made under the influence could not be taken seriously. Still, I named that child “___ Faith” – the experience made an impression, even if the actual revelation didn’t last.
    Marty… and his blog – the only thing interesting now about Marty Rathbun is his wife and her lawsuit… otherwise – YAWN!

    • WhereIsSHE

      “YAWN!”??! Wow! I found the article about Marty fascinating! Maybe I need some nitrous?!
      It was beautifully written, just for starters, IMO.
      The author really puts the reader in the interview environment, and gives one a great sense of who Marty REALLY is.
      I confess to not having read his self-published books, so some of his history was revelatory to me.
      It reminded me how complex we humans are–or can be.
      I’ve been guilty of too easily focusing on the wrongs he committed while in the “church”, and getting an inside glimpse of his personal evolution since leaving, particularly in the last however many months, is rather enlightening. That he has come to a place where he can see the absolute faults woven into the Scientology process –and speak openly about it, even though it is certain to diminish his “status” within the indie movement among those who still cling to “Source” as the end-all/be-all of “spiritual” advancement — is encouraging.
      That he is flawed in his paranoia (accusing the writer of being a spy before even taking a seat)… but, at the same time, wise to be paranoid, (the shadows about his shirt perhaps betraying the existence of a concealed weapon) made me feel …sympathy for him.

      • EnthralledObserver

        Lots of articles are written well that I cannot bear to read… it wasn’t the writing… it was the subject matter – I just don’t care about Marty’s evolution. As a whole and brief insight, it’s marginally interesting… but other than that… when’s Monique’s next court date?
        I’m happy you got more from it though… the author hasn’t wasted their time.

      • Poison Ivy

        After what was done (and is still being done) to him and everyone connected with him? I’d be paranoid too.

        I’m looking forward to the day when Mike has his own come to Jesus moment about LRH. I wonder if perhaps he already hasn’t already had such a revelation, and is keeping quiet about it, because Marty has already disaffected a lot of die hard Indies with his spiritual evolution, and the movement to get Scientologists to turn on DM requires loyal Indies. There are many within the church (under the radar) who don’t want to throw the baby out with the bathwater yet (they haven’t yet realized that there is no baby, or at least, there’s only a permanently filthy baby) but who are secretly smuggling info out, and its that info that’s taking everything down. So whatever spiritual evolution Mike will or won’t go through, it’s not going to happen publicly, not until it’s all over, anyway.

        Which is cool with me. It’s also cool with me if these dudes audit, or do TR’s, or whatever practices from LRH’s melange of (stolen) ideas works to make them feel better in their lives. Hey, don’t we all want to feel better? Life is hard out here! I just hate to see really intelligent people close off parts of their minds because they can’t let go of a flawed ideology. Without fessing up as to who LRH really was and what he really did and didn’t do, an ex Scientologist can’t truly say they have an open mind about anything. IM (not so H) O.

        • Robert Eckert

          You spoke above about how those who leave Scientology finally get around to AA’s Third Step, admitting that they cannot do everything themselves. But it seems that some of them, and Marty is Exhibit 1 here, can never get to the Fourth Step (taking a fearless and thorough moral inventory of themselves) and especially not to the Eighth Step (make a list of all persons we have harmed and become willing to make amends to them all). This is what is simultaneously fascinating and frustrating about watching Marty’s decompression: how he is able to shed the ideology, but cannot come to grips with his karma.

          • StatusLevelUP

            That’s a lot of speculation. Who are you to judge if he has “come to grips with his karma?” He’s the single biggest threat to the existence of Scientology.

            • Robert Eckert

              “Who are you to judge if he has ‘come to grips with his karma?'” A human being. It is by no means speculation that he has failed to apologize to those he did terrible hurt to. It is quite publicly so.

              Yes, he is a major threat to bring down Miscavige, and I root for him to do so. That has nothing to do with what I was posting about.

            • StatusLevelUP

              The degree that he has “come to grips with his karma” is speculative, since he is rumored to have done a lot of apologies in private, and frankly, bringing down the cult would benefit the world for many generations to come. And what do you know of his personal “moral inventory?”

            • Robert Eckert

              “he is rumored to have done a lot of apologies in private” The people he hurt the worst have said publicly he has not spoken a word of apology to them, and he is on record still saying nasty things about them.

              “And what do you know of his personal ‘moral inventory?'” His record is quite publicly known by now.

            • StatusLevelUP

              On the Public Registry of Karma and Morals.

            • Reality Scamz

              What purpose does this discussion have it is well known that Mike & Marty have some who hate them others who are ok with them.

              No ones mind is going to be changed so why have a pointless conversation. There are so many more interesting subjects to discuss here.

              Just trying to get an understanding I see no rationale in this here?

            • StatusLevelUP

              The rationale for me is that the best way to bring down the cult is to collaborate with Rinder and Rathbun. Tony has often done this in the past. Until the cult is destroyed, I find it useless to speculate whether Rathbun takes his karmic inventory. In fact, an excellent OSA strategy would be to do exactly this, as it would derail, and actually will make him less willing to collaborate with Tony in this effort.

            • Reality Scamz

              Ok I get you but I think Mike & Marty understand that some people are Ok with it others are not. I don’t think discussing it is really worth the trouble. Different strokes for different folks. I really don’t think you are going to change anyone’s mind here.

              The cult of scientology is in a death spiral I say let it go. Also Mike & Marty can take it I really don’t think either of them would be offended or suprised that some here don’t like them.

            • Robert Eckert

              I totally agree with supporting Rathbun in his lawsuit. That is not what I was discussing.

            • Reality Scamz

              Hey Robert if you look up about 3 posts up he deleted one of his comments to you I think. I was trying to post on another reply however Disqus freaked out. I think of you as experienced here on this site and that you are reasonable as well. I am myself creating my own little Troll list so I won’t fall for future derail attempts.

              Oh, StatusLevelUP I was not referring to you as a troll just FYI

              I use to be up at all hours on WWP all kinds of weird trolls use to come through in the middle of the night. Have a Good One

            • StatusLevelUP

              Yes, I deleted a post to Robert because I’m touchy on this issue, and it’s more important that we all get along. Thanks to Reality Scamz and Robert for being diplomatic. I appreciate it.

            • Reality Scamz

              I noticed that and it tells a Great deal to me about your character. Thank you

          • ThetaBara

            Yet. It’s not over.

  • tetloj

    Wonder if Dildo Dave is up to 100 cigs a day and a bottle of scotch, or if he is shirking like the theetie-weetie panty-waisted diletantte that he is. Bet he smokes filtereds too.

    • EnthralledObserver

      lol… poor Davey, he’ll never live up to LRonny. (See Monkeyknickers comment above) 😉

    • jeff

      Apparently, from what I’ve read, he smokes Camel unfiltered.

  • monkeyknickers

    On the contrary, I think Hubbard IS peerless.

    I cannot think of a single religious leader who could EVER match the man’s rotten, jacked-up grill. Harold Camping? Really bad at math, but a fantastic flosser. Joseph Smith? Obsessed with normalizing the multi-vagina household, but at least he gave the old choppers a rinse now and then. Mansen? A bad planner and near permanent guest of the state, but he ALWAYS kept his 6 month appointments for that professional deep clean. Hell, even Mary made sure that Jesus brushed every night before hitting the straw pallet.

    Hubbard is, truly, a nasty-ass yuck mouth god among men. There simply is no competition.

    .
    He stands alone.

    • John P.

      This comment wins the award for the highest density of snark per sentence of the week.

      • Poison Ivy

        Ditto.

      • Jgg2012

        I don’t know–isn’t attacking Hubbard like shoooting fish in a barrel?

        • monkeyknickers

          Big ol’ doughy, pasty, embarrassingly self-aggrandizing fishes. :)

          • Robert Eckert
            • monkeyknickers

              ONE OF MY FAVORITES DEEP SEA WEIRDOS.

              Can you believe that thing?!!

            • John P.

              I love the blobfish, as well. However, it gets an unfair rap for ugliness. It should be noted that it lives at extreme depths, and it doesn’t need extensive internal structure to define its shape. It looks totally different (and a lot more dangerous) when it’s in its natural habitat, as the article here discusses: http://safarinotes.blogspot.com/2010/02/blobfish.html

            • monkeyknickers

              I love you. You are my fish boyfriend. Tell Legs. :)))

              Look – I’d like to raise a practical question, then. So . . . . with all these crustaceans proliferating and existing at extreme temperatures . . . . well . . . . how could we have a good crab and shrimp boil up here?! They’re like . . . . UNTOUCHABLE. God I hope humanity don’t starve cuzza this.

              Also – the awesomer thing . . . . . deep sea life that exists at methane seeps and “lakes” at the bottom of the deep ocean. That shit is FUCKED UP.

              And makes you think a second time about life on Titan, huh? :)

              I swear, if I could be assured it wouldn’t kill or fuck us up, I’d toss the fetii and the four year old into the nearest submersible and cruise the marianas trench for about a thousand years. :)

            • Robert Eckert

              The resemblance to LRH is uncanny.

            • Poison Ivy

              It’s definitely something right out of “History of Man.”

              L Ron Hubbard’s face on a fish, after decomposing for about a week.

              Man is descended from fish, and here’s the proof. First came clams, then fish.

            • StatusLevelUP

              Looks delicious!

    • EthicalBeing

      Jenny Cox. ‘Nuff said.

    • Cat Daddy
    • Cat Daddy

      http://paulsrabbit.com/The-ESMB-Posts.pdf

      Post #25 20080405-1805
      Alan, Do think that LRH disregarded earlier tech for a easier dumb down version that would
      make it easier on auditors to deliver resulting in more delivery = more money, more money.
      He was in the middle of GPM running – in September, 1962 he engaged in an out 2D situation that
      completely ARC broke his auditor (MSH). At that point he lost his auditor.
      Over the next year the sessions began to go bad – lots of out lists and wrong items…….life and Scio
      went under attack, he went under attack.
      In early 1964 there was also was a massive Ascension Experience when he thought he and his
      creation Scientology was going to become a household name – the “Look Magazine Article” – which
      ended up being a complete make nothing of him and Scio.
      Whilst in the AE state the Opterm or darkside kicked in – he flipped into a tremendously Powerful
      SP Identity. These identities do not allow for any two-way flows – they operate from an “I am right –
      do what I command or die!” position and action basis…….this builds up tremendous counter-force –
      he set about subduing any counter-forces.
      The introduction of Ethics LRH style was enforced into Scientology.
      The killer of this is: each being feels they are wrong, consequently each you gives itself wrong
      items and wrong whys. (BTW it is easier to confront self than the Powerful SP Identity.)
      To be sane a being or Organization must be willing to be both total cause and total effect (or right or
      wrong) – this allows for the charge travelling back and forth along the command and Organizational
      lines to dissipate and the being or Organization to easily operate in PT in a high mood level.
      LRH then set about building a replica of an Operating Games Matrix. The FEBC Tech covers the
      top part of the Games Matrix – the processing and training tech covers the next level below that –
      the Ethics Tech covers the bottom part – though all three span all levels.
      For some reason LRH dropped the lower level tech and tried to quickie it – probably felt he was
      running out of time.
      I know for a fact LRH deliberately omitted Tech that would let people go free……as I inadvertently
      did on one experimental process……that process was omitted completely from the Tech Volumes – I
      ran it on the 15th Nov 1962.
      To my knowledge all Ethics – Tech – and Admin issued by LRH was designed for him to keep
      control over the Organizations, staffs, pc’s and OTs.
      But obviously it did not produce what it promised.
      Without doubt LRH was the most dichotomous dramatizing being that one could get entangled
      with.

    • StatusLevelUP

      I suppose one might let themselves go a bit if one were dressed and bathed by attractive teenagers of the opposite sex who felt obligated to compliment you constantly.

      • monkeyknickers

        And lo, Status – you have described the very thing I find most disgusting about this man – and there’s a lot to choose from. That anyone worships this person or gives his proclamations any creedence is . . . . well fuck it – BEYOND AWFUL.

  • Valerie Ross

    Yesterday while sorting through thousands of pages of documents in preparation for trial. We were discussing the fact that both sides were using the same documents to either prove or disprove the case.

    The attorney I was talking to mentioned that his ex-wife could tenaciously twist any fact presented to her to conform to her pre-conceived worldview which she held onto at all costs. There are people who must believe a certain narrow way in order to survive. If you have convinced yourself that pink is chartreuse, your entire worldview is based on that erroneous fact and every fact presented to you needs to somehow conform to that “fact”.

    Scientologists were and still are not allowed to view documents contrary to what they are told is “proven fact.” The basis of their entire belief system, however, what they were told was good and true, would rely on the two very problematic pieces of data.

    1. Hubbard did not “discover” anything. He stole from others and cobbled together a belief system he preached as true and good.

    2. Hubbard did not practice the basic tenets of the belief system he touted as the be all end all. He took drugs, he communicated poorly, not openly, he made others fight his battles rather than use the supposedly superior powers he possessed to confront and shatter those who dared oppress him.

    One of the hardest things I ever did in my entire life was admit to MYSELF that I alone was not capable of handling all of the things life threw at me. Far from being the superior being Hubbard had forced us to believe we were, his narrow and flawed world view had severely damaged my critical thinking skills and my ability to operate as a functioning human being.

    It was only after I realized, to put it simplistically, what two totally different colors pink and chartreuse were that I was able to look at the teachings with a true critical eye. One believed piece of false data can change a lot of outcomes.

    • Eclipse-girl

      You can have your own opinions, but you can’t have your own facts.

      To people with personality disorders, facts to do not matter because it does require them to alter their world view, and that it very difficult for them.

    • Poison Ivy

      “One of the hardest things I ever did in my entire life was admit to MYSELF that I alone was not capable of handling all of the things life threw at me.”

      It’s an important revelation. Ironically for this discussion, it’s the basis of the 3rd step in 12-step recovery. Addicts/alcoholics have to come to the realization that they aren’t the center of the universe and it’s okay to ask for help.

      Scientology takes its followers’ cries for help and turns it back on them, claiming they “pulled it in,” “mocked it up,”….or turns the blame on others “you’re PTS; you haven’t handled that evil SP.”

      Addiction studies and many religions stress letting go of the ego and learning a degree of humility. You didn’t pull in that hurricane. You can’t control your ex-wife’s behavior.

      Scientology is the opposite in every way. No wonder it turns apparently ordinary people into sociopaths.

  • Donut

    He’s not the messiah, he’s a very naughty drug addict.

    • Roger Larsson

      Poison in a smaller amount stimulate and poison in a larger amount or taken during a longer period of time kills. Why dead-agent critics, psychs and communists? Why not dead-agent the poison that killed L. Ron Hubbard?

      • Poison Ivy

        L Ron himself IS the poison.

  • RMycroft

    The worst mind-altering substance in Scientology is a hit of “Ronnie”. The dealers try to hook you with a small dose in Dianutty form to make you feel good, and then it’s on to injections of the serious stuff.

    ”What you just told me about, Where… [repeat the ruin back as exactly as possible] …this book will show you exactly why that happens and how to fix it.” [When you say, “…how to fix it,” put the book into their hands and let go.]

    [Then immediately without comm lag, start to hardsell the person Make it your own.] “GET IT READ IT 20 MILLION PEOPLE HAVE. YOU’LL SEE WHY. JUST READ IT. GET THE BOOK AND READ IT. WHY SHOULD I TALK? THERE’S HOW BIG IT IS, IT ‘S GOING TO BLOW YOU AWAY. BUY IT. IT’S DOLLARS, TAKE YOUR CHANCE. IT’S GOING TO CHANGE YOUR LIFE. IF IT DOESN’T, FINE. IS THAT WORTH _ _ _ DOLLARS TO YOU? TAKE THE BOOK.” [Continue to hardsell the person as long as needed until they get the book.]

    • Poison Ivy

      You know, “the hard sell.” Or, as the French say, “taking care of people.”

  • Exterrier

    A new Ron Mag for Observer to “mock up”: Ron, The Drug Addict.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Ron, The Hypnotist

    • sugarplumfairy

      Hey there! He wasn’t an addict! He was a pioneer! He threw himself on the land mine for science! Yah, that’s the ticket..

    • ze moo

      Talk about the ‘vanity’ press…..

    • Where’s Shelly?

      Ron, the Pharmacist.

    • Jon Hendry

      “Pill Aficionado” with Ron on the cover, like those cigar magazines.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Perfect!

      • RMycroft

        “Pillboy”?

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Just wanted to put a plug in for our early morning shift for MonkeyKnickers baby shower. Here’s Aquaclara’s post:

    New Bunker babies are on the way! Monkeyknickers, who has entertained us with so many funny remarks, plus firsthand stories from the damaging effects of Scientology, is expecting twin baby girls. If you’d like to join in on a baby shower by mail, here are details.
    MK, in addition to twins on the way, is caring for her sister’s 4 year-old daughter, while said sister is in the cult. Her sister also tapped MK’s bank account without permission to fund her Scientology involvement, sadly.

    For those who love to celebrate babies and kids, here are details.
    Suggestions: gift cards or presents are welcome. If you’re not sure what to get, Babies R Us (is also Toys R Us), Walmart and Amazon are easy, online and ship easily! Remember the Amazon click is right here on the Bunker.

    Michael has generously provided a mailing address (note instructions):
    IF MAILING United Parcel or via a method that does NOT like PO Boxes:
    Michael Tilse (MK)
    #2753
    311 SW 2nd Street
    Corvallis, OR 97333

    IF MAILING via US Mail:
    Michael Tilse (MK)
    PO Box 2753
    Corvallis, OR 97339

    Here’s some things she already has: crib, strollers, bassinet, car seats, lots of baby clothes, baby bottles.

    http://i43.tinypic.com/zxk500.jpg

    • Sidney18511

      Don’t forget she will need lots of diapers and wipes. A gift card with coupons included would make a wonderful gift.

      • Valerie Ross

        She is using a local diaper service that supplies the diapers as part of the service.

    • Poison Ivy

      Awwww… twin monkeys!

    • NOLAGirl

      Thanks again for the info hon, just sent an Amazon gift card. First time I’ve sent one so if you could let me know that she got it, I’d appreciate it. Thanks. :)

    • AnonymousSP

      Congrats to MonkeyKnickers and two new cousins for her niece. Lovely idea and thanks to Michael for setting up the internet baby shower.

  • John P.

    Despite all the comment from ancient texts about the odd effects of nitrous oxide, it is important to remember that the rise time and clearance time of nitrous is extremely rapid — typically a matter of a fraction of a minute. It’s given in labor to women who are not candidates for an epidural because it can be given when the meter shows a contraction starting and stopped when the contraction begins to recede. It can even be given as PCA (patient-controlled anesthesia) since it clears so quickly when the patient gets too drowsy to hold the switch any longer.

    I am not aware of any respiratory depressive effects for nitrous the way you would typically see with opioid narcotics and with other classes of anesthetic agent; this is probably a major feature in why it is safe for dentists and other medical professionals without extensive training in using such agents to administer. Bad things happen when dentists administer fentanyl, for instance, because they don’t have a way to manage airways or to deal with respiratory depression. In other words, dentists don’t use analgesic agents where there is any significant risk of having to revive a patient in life-threatening distress.

    Alas, my contact with world-class understanding of the pharmacology of anesthestics is on the left coast and is thus asleep; I’m not going to wake him with a trifling question on nitrous.

    But the point of all this is that Hubbard’s claim to have been clinically dead for eight minutes on Nitrous seems to be yet another exaggeration, if not outright lie. The anecdotal stories in contemporary textbooks are just that — stories. Use for over a century in dental procedures has established that while some people briefly experience some odd sensations, there is not full-on psychosis. If Hubbard really were “clinically dead” in a dentist’s office in the 1930s, the odds that a dentist would have been able to “run a code” to bring him back (no defibrillators, no CPR techniques, no reversal agents like neostygmine, etc). If he were truly in mortal distress in a dentist’s chair in those days, he would have died there.

    Lying liars that lie.

    • EnthralledObserver

      A dead Hubbard before Dianetics… is preferable to one dead after… what a shame.

      • Poison Ivy

        Ha ha! Yes, a missed opportunity by an unlucky dentist whose name is lost to history…

      • GlibWog

        Well shit I would rather have him dead than incapable EO

    • sugarplumfairy

      John P, I’m convinced you have some medical background.. You know too much..

      • EnthralledObserver

        Possibly…
        My opinion is though that he has in abundance something I struggle with – great patience. Me, I struggle to take the time to get my sentences to sound coherent I am often so impatient to get them out… let alone be bothered to actually spend time researching.
        But John’s pretty smart too – I could look up the jargon, but often times don’t understand it well enough to reproduce it in my own words.

        • sugarplumfairy

          We should start a club.. Short attention spanners.. But where would we find members capable of completing that project?

          • EnthralledObserver

            lol… indee…
            What’s that over there…??

            • kemist

              Squirel !

          • WhereIsSHE

            At an Adderall-taking convention??;)

            • sugarplumfairy

              Better living through chemistry….

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Hi ladies! No L. Wrong over Thanksgiving holidays. Boohoo. Going somewhere else with family, not Delaware. Have to catch you some other time.

            • GlibWog

              Well.. Wherever you go you will be there not here ; /

      • StatusLevelUP

        He invests in big pharm

        • Poison Ivy

          He’s the reason we all get those fat Big Pharma checks every month, for all our SP enturbulating.

          • StatusLevelUP

            Exactly! Thanks, JohnP!

      • stateofcircle

        I think it’s Tony.

        • John P.

          I am definitely not a sock puppet for Tony. Tony and I have been seen in public together on several occasions, and this fact has been noted and documented publicly (here and on FB) by a number of prominent ex’s whose credibility is beyond reproach.

      • Missionary Kid

        When someone has to evaluate a company’s financial future, in addition to its finances they have to learn the company’s products /are, how they fit in the marketplace, and what the up and downside is for each one. That’s what is known as a financial analyst.

        A bad estimation, or insufficient evidence or lack of understanding by an analyst, can cost an investment company millions if not billions in the long run. On the other hand, the correct information correctly applied can mean huge profits. The risks are high, but information reduces the risk.

        John P. probably has been a financial analyst in the pharmaceutical industry, or has been responsible for the analysis of different financial analysts under him. Knowing the minutiae about drugs, different types of treatment, the effects is, or probably has been, his his job.

    • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

      I had it in the dentist’s office a couple of times. It was pleasant. The dentist told me that it had to be given while I was also breathing in oxygen. The mix he gave me didn’t do enough to reduce pain so he jacked up the nitrous another 10% while reducing the oxygen 10%. That worked. Do I think Hubbard was breathing 100% nitrous oxide? No, I think he liked people to think that he had had a wild life, laughed at death, walked a dangerous rode and had courage enough to get him through anything. I just thought that mention of my own little escapade with nitrous would add a bit to the discussion.

      And, Jon and John, thank you both for your analysis. They are always fascinating.

    • L. C. Spencer

      Spot on, sir. He was incapable of retelling even the simplest incident without embellishing it to twice its length and three times its scope. So yeah, why would this story be any different?

    • tetloj

      Four labours, that nitrous was my best friend. Held onto that mask like a lifeline.

    • WhereIsSHE

      People used to line up at nitrous tanks in the parking lots of Grateful Dead concerts. For a few bucks, they could get a huge “punching bag” balloon of the stuff to suck down. They’d go, “wahhhhh!wahhhhh!wahhhhhhhhhh!!!” for however long the high lasted, and recover in a heartbeat, just to get back in line for another.

      Dead for 8 minutes, my little ass!
      You nailed it, JP. He’d have been DEAD for real if that were a truthful account.

      I’ve had it at a dental office and … it was… just…. sighhhhh…. lovely, from what I recall. (It was long ago, when I was a kid and had a brief, naughty habit of chewing sugary gum. Color Bubbles, Razzles, QuickSand, Gold Rush, to name a few favorites. I was a connoisseur!)
      Maybe I’m just hard-wired against “spiritual revelation”, but all I got out of it was a sense of delicious relaxation. I could not have cared less about that dental drill=)

      • Sidney18511

        I remember receiving oxide once and I laughed I was at a comedy show. When I was done I felt like an idiot.

        • joan nieman

          I was given the mask and a tank of nitrous oxide when in labor with my daughter. I was inhaling it constantly through the contractions. Suddenly, I blurted out something about Conan( the Barbarian). One of the nurses uttered to another”I think she’s had enough”! Damn! I still can’t remember what I said.

          • Reality Scamz

            My Sister in law was in labor and I was her coach. They got the drip rate wrong on the pitocin she was having almost constant contractions. She was literally trying to eat my hands as I was her coach. Finally they realized their mistake after my Sister in law just up and screamed bloody murder.

      • Poison Ivy

        I recall the time I went to a dentist as a kid and had it. The song “Feelings” was playing on the Muzak and the song kind of came alive in a very malevolent way and it felt like it went on and on forever. I could never listen to it again.

        Of course it was a horrible song to begin with and it did go on and on forever; it was just exponentially more awful on the nitrous.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          I believe it is now listed in the Geneva Convention rules of Prisoner of War treatment as forbidden torture.

        • TXCowgirl

          The dentist I went to when I was in my twenties is a very handsome man, probably 10 years older me. Whenever he gave me nitrous I would unabashedly flirt with him; I remember the doc rolling his eyes with a smile and playfully scolding me, which only egged me on all the more. Seemed like such a good idea at the time, but I was completely and totally embarrassed 45 seconds after the mask was removed. Ahhh, young, nitrous-induced love. :)

          • Casabeca

            This is great!

        • Observer

          Feelings is a malevolent song and it does go on and on forever. One of the few to surpass its malevolence is that godforsaken Piña Colada song.

          • Casabeca

            You and PI have perfect taste in music!

      • Gerard Plourde

        My dentist when I was in college and for a while afterward used light doses of nitrous (just enough to make you relaxed) in conjunction with local anesthetics. From the same time (the ’70’s), one of my favorite Robert Klein routines about a visit to the dentist described it as “a different concept in pain management – you feel the pain but you don’t give a shit.”

      • Fremdscham

        Ha ha ha! Yes. “Hippie crack” we called it. In my youth I did a fair amount of drugs, and was lucky enough to come out of it relatively unscathed. I did nitrous many times. Other than being light headed/blacking out for a short period of time there were no auditory/visual hallucinations. His story is total BS. Also one of my favorite subjects to research is near-death experiences. There is an astounding commonality across cultures in the experiences of those who have NDEs, LRH mentions none of those commonalities. He clearly made all of that up.

      • Orglodyte

        Maybe he meant to say he was a Deadhead for eight minutes.

      • Reality Scamz

        Ah the days of whippets memories:)

        • Robert Eckert

          I did whippets several times in my college days. It was a moderately fun drug, nothing spectacular.

          • Reality Scamz

            I was probably about 13 but they were kinda fun for a short while.

      • Once_Born

        “People used to line up at nitrous tanks in the parking lots of Grateful Dead concerts. For a few bucks, they could get a huge “punching bag” balloon of the stuff to suck down. They’d go, “wahhhhh!wahhhhh!wahhhhhhhhhh!!!” ”

        Someone should have switched the nitrous for helium.

    • ze moo

      We called wippets (nitrous oxide for whipped cream machines) the 60 second trip in the 70’s. Pink Floyd was the music of choice, but pretty much anything would do. Most of the nitrous concoctions are pure nitrous oxide. Your dentist uses a mixture of mixture of nitrous oxide and oxygen. Can’t have the patient smothering while getting their teeth drilled. I can think of about 10 dentists who have died in their own chairs when the oxygen tank emptied while the nitrous kept running. Hygienists, if your dentist likes to stay late some days to ‘get paper work done’, they are probably getting high too. Check the oxygen tank before you go, you might save a life.

      “Alcoholism is engramic. it is also an hypnotic in the finest sense: what is done to a drunk becomes an engram.” No Lroon, overuse of alcohol has a bad effect on you health and psyche. Sounds like Lroon tried a 12 step program once or twice. Too bad he didn’t steal some of it for NarCONon….

      • Sidney18511

        back in the 70’s my handsome dentist was also a casualty of a nitrous oxide ride he took in his own chair one evening. His patients, including myself were shocked.

      • Poison Ivy

        As I said above, a 12-step program would NEVER have worked for Hubbard!!!!
        He could never have admitted he was powerless over ANYTHING!!!!!

      • John P.

        Screw-ups like letting the oxygen cylinder run out is why nitrous for dentists is typically adminstered via special cylinders that have a 50% oxygen/50% nitrous mixture already blended.

        In an operating room, the nitrous and oxygen tanks are separate, but they are merely backup. In most modern hospitals, there is a centrally piped-in house supply which is monitored constantly and probably won’t run out. You can get away with separate tanks in an operating room because you have a pulse oximeter clipped to the patient which triggers an alarm if they are not getting enough oxygen.

        • StatusLevelUP

          A smart dentist would purchase a pulse oximeter. The ROI would be less than 24 hours.

          • John P.

            Tough call. If I were a dentist, I would probably resist any temptation to have to screw around with yet another machine that would distract me from the “chill ’em, drill ’em, fill ’em and bill ’em” cycle, slowing me down. I would suspect that the average dentist is far more comfortable purchasing 50/50 cylinders even if they cost more over the years than a pulse ox that’s certified for intraoperative use (programmable alarms, backup batteries, highly grounded electrical system, etc. — there are cheap, tiny battery operated pulse ox units that are used to collect vital signs, but you would be suicidal to use that intraoperatively).

            Pulse ox is far more necessary in surgery, where patients are usually pretty sick when they’re in the OR, and a lot of weird stuff can happen for a lot of different reasons, bad stuff can happen pretty quickly, and you have a separate anesthesiologist who is continuously monitoring all the equipment.

            This just in: before posting the above, I decided to check with a dentist friend, who I figured might be out having a night on the town, but to my surprise, he got back to me fairly quickly. He says that their equipment has mechanical interlocks that prevent delivery of >50% N2O to the patient, so he doesn’t need pre-mixed cylinders. Apparently due to the mechanical functions of the system, risks of hypoxia from accidentally running out of O2 is not a problem.

            He says that he has never, and doesn’t know anyone who does use a pulse oximeter to manage oxygenation levels, as confidence in the delivery system is sufficiently high that there’s no significant concern over patient safety without it.

            Interestingly, he also mentioned that if a patient is talking a lot during a procedure, they are exhaling un-metabolized N2O at an extremely elevated rate, and he sometimes starts to feel the effects of N2O himself due to his proximity to the outflow from the patient’s mouth, where it’s exhaled into the room (i.e., into his face) rather than being collected by the respirator.

            • StatusLevelUP

              No, it’s not needed, but it’s billable, and it’s a safety measure.

    • TXCowgirl

      JP, I enjoy and appreciate your talent for coherent explanations. If I may ask and if you are so inclined to respond, might you be a professor?

      • http://frankdisalleisadummy.wordpress.com/ Get Chutney Love

        He’s a high-flyin financial analyst in NYC, but he probably has a professorial manner from having to mentor his younger subordinates in his company. He has demonstrated in the past an extensive knowledge of legal and business matters from his education and experience as a HFFA. He could probably get a good gig as a lecturer in a B-school somewhere if he ever tired of his present position.

        • TXCowgirl

          Thanks Love!

      • John P.

        TxCowgirl, I would say Get Chutney Love’s synopsis of my career is accurate.

        It might be interesting to some people to expose the thought processes leading to what I wrote, so they can sharpen their own analytical instincts.

        The point of this is not to brag about my abilities. I assure you that my skills in this area are no better than many of my peers, so I am not claiming superhuman abilities. I claim competence in a skill set that all others in my relatively small profession (perhaps 1,500 people worldwide with expertise on the industries that I cover, and 10,000 stock analysts overall) also possess. I am trying to show that the ability to hone in quickly to the likely weak points of an argument is a distinct skill that can be learned if one operates in the Global Capitalism HQ environment. I’m not that smart in any one area, but I have developed a sense of what makes sense, and have a large network of experts that I can consult to develop quickly a reasonably accurate opinion of whether a claim is true or false.

        Given that my business is analyzing whether to invest in given stocks, I need to have a toolkit to be able to understand arguments about whether a subject company’s products are effective or are nonsense. In my area of expertise, which includes high-tech stocks (think: Intel, Microsoft, etc.) and healthcare (including Big Pharma and biotech) and a few other things, I have to be able to recognize a potentially bogus argument if I can see one, and to be able to ask the right questions to help get a subject matter expert to help me figure out the truth quickly. Do this enough times and your own bullshit detectors get some tuning.

        In the case of this particular claim by Hubbard, I recall numerous discussions with medical researchers about risk categories of various anesthetic agents, and know from those earlier discussions that the main risk factor when administering anesthesia outside an operating room is the drop in respiration and blood pressure that comes from the use of certain agents. For example, what killed singer Michael Jackson was the inability of Dr. Conrad Murray to manage the drop in respiration and blood pressure when Murray administered propofol as a sleep aid in a home, with no breathing apparatus. There are plenty of other cases where dentists have killed people using fentanyl, getting so busy doing the drilling and filling that they neglected to notice that “respiratory depression” in that particular patient equalled “stopped breathing completely.”

        So having some exposure that allowed me to remember where the likely hole in Hubbard’s story might be gave me the running room to consult Wikipedia and a couple of other sources on side effects of nitrous oxide and verify that a) respiratory depression and other harmful side effects are not present, and b) that clearance (i.e., metabolism) is extremely rapid, taking place in a few seconds. I had actually significantly underestimated the rate of clearance of N2O, but I at least recalled from seminars in the basics of pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics the general mechanism of how drug clearance of inhaled anesthetics works. I made a calculated bet that I didn’t miss something major, but the extraordinary nature of Hubbard’s claim makes the threshold of certainty for a counter-argument relatively low.

        I also considered potential arguments that someone looking to explain Hubbard’s story as true might make. The counter to my counter-argument would be that there is a known potential for hypoxia from a buildup of nitrous around a patient’s face, which was a problem in early breathing apparatus used to administer nitrous, That could indeed be fatal. But the response to that would be that if a dentist whose face is near the patient was able to continue working without experiencing effects of nitrous, then that probably wouldn’t be a factor. It seems reasonable to believe that movement of the dentist’s hands as he worked near the patient’s face would cause enough air circulation to reduce nitrous build-up. I would believe that, in a procedure in the 1930s, nitrous buildup on a patient undergoing a thyroid gland removal (from the neck) where the sterile drape accidentally blocked either oxygen inflow or clearance of exhaled gases fro the area, it would be possible for fatal nitrous buildup to occur, but I would not believe that likely in a dental procedure, which doesn’t use a sterile field.

        The other skill that one develops in my job is the ability to know how much time to invest in debunking an argument. I could have spent a couple hours chasing down stories on nitrous oxide and talking to one or more anesthesiologists in my network of business contacts. But it was clear enough from the initial quick look at Wikipedia that there minimal chance that Hubbard’s story was true. That told me I could write what I did with reasonable confidence reasonably quickly.

        Had my preliminary quick look at the situation revealed a more ambiguous situation, I would have instead written something that identified the circumstances where Hubbard’s claims could have been true, and I would have e-mailed one or more of my sources a link to the story to ask for their thoughts. In other words, I know how to titrate the amount of research to the importance of a particular question: if a trader asks me, “rumor is that Pfizer stock is down today because a trial on XYZ blockbuster cholesterol drug is going badly,” I can at least do a quick back-of-the-envelope exercise to figure out how reasonable that rumor might be in a couple minutes, and can increase the odds he’ll be on the right side of a short-term trade to profit from an unfounded rumor. I can’t give him God’s Own Truth but I can give him an educated guess that’s helpful in the circumstances.

        On the other hand, what if someone asks, “Should we invest $200 million to buy 10% of a biotech company that is claiming good preliminary Stage II trial results for their breast cancer drug?” I will punt completely on that one and say we should wait until the biotech guy gets back from vacation, because he has an M.D. and used to be an oncologist. I know enough about clinical trial math that I could guess at some things in some circumstances. But I am completely humbled by what I don’t know about oncology, and I won’t offer an opinion, even though I know personally a couple of very prominent researchers in the field. In this case, I am acutely aware that I don’t know what I don’t know, and I have zero confidence in my ability to digest what my friends might say to get the final conclusion right.

        Sometimes, bets with my credibility at stake are worth it (like debunking this story about Hubbard) and sometimes, I will stay clear of anything where I don’t have confidence I will be right enough for the situation at hand. I hate writing “mea culpa” notes to the Chief Investment Officer to do a post-mortem on how I got an investment decision wrong, but I have certainly done enough of those. There are plenty of times that I have seen an article here that relates a clearly outrageous claim by Scientology, but I have not written anything about it because I don’t think I have the knowledge to rebut the argument convincingly. In other words, another very important analytical skill is knowing when to STFU and not try to wade into an argument to show how smart you are.

        • StatusLevelUP

          JohnP demonstrates the role of humility in greatness.

        • Reality Scamz

          John P, I worked at a Fortune 250 for 29 years and worked around CEO VP’s and they were nice. They were just never real the one CEO I knew my entire career we had a good working relationship. I could call him today being retired he would call me back. He was just never as honest and forthcoming as you are on a daily basis.

          However in my uneducated opinion you are the exception to the rule. I learn from you and others everyday so you are Greatly Appreciated.

          FYI; I always Imagine Michael Douglas is talking to me when I read your posts:)

    • http://frankdisalleisadummy.wordpress.com/ Get Chutney Love

      According to the Wiki, the main complications can be

      1: Hypoxia, because if you’re breathing the pure stuff you’re not getting any oxygen into your system

      2: You’re dealing with a compressed liquified gas which is highly flammable

      3: You can get so spaced out because of the dissociative effect of the gas you might not respond until it’s too late to the lack of O2.

      no CPR techniques

      Yeah, I think in the original MASH novels it talks about cardiac massage as a way to get the heart back beating again, and this was in the early ’50s, long before the event with the dentist was alleged to have taken place.

      It could be that he did asphyxiate at the dentist due to the NO2 and they used a manual resuscitator to bring him back from being passed out, but brain tissue is very vunerable to hypoxia, so there’s perhaps a margin of 2 to 3 minutes from the time someone isn’t breathing to when they can still be brought back to the land of the living. The only way he could’ve survived 8 minutes would be like one of those rare cases when people are in ice-cold water and their metabolic rate is so slowed down that they don’t develop hypoxia right away and thus can be revived when brought to the hospital or in the ambulance on the way there.

    • grundoon

      In a previous discussion of Hubbard’s tooth extraction, it emerged that nitrous oxide is unlikely to cause hallucinations. But in the 1940s dental anesthesia often used a mixture of ether with nitrous oxide. Perhaps it was this mixture that kicked off Hubbard’s transformative experience in the dentist’s chair. (Just slightly too much ether can be fatal; its use for anesthesia ceased in the postwar era when safer anesthetics were developed.)

      • John P.

        Yes, you’re right that nitrous was not the only agent used in dental procedures back in the day.

        While ether was one of the first two inhaled anesthetics (along with chloroform), it had many limitations. First, it takes a long time to take effect. Nitrous takes effect almost immediately, as do more modern inhaled agents (sevoflurane, etc.). I’d guess that it would have only been used on a long procedure (root canal, etc) rather than on a short procedure (filling, etc.).

        Second, and even more importantly, ether is extremely flammable. An instrument dropped on a tray or a drill hitting a filling and creating a spark could be fatal to patient and dentist alike. So I suspect that most people using ether avoided it as much as possible. Patients and anesthesiologists used to die fairly frequently in operating room explosions. That was the real reason for moving rapidly away from ether as soon as a non-flammable inhaled anesthetic (halothane) was developed. The difference between a therapeutic dose of ether and a lethal dose was actually far higher than was the case with chloroform, the other 19th century inhaled anesthetic.

        Incidentally, ether does not cause respiratory depression (though it can cause tracheal irritation, causing an asthma-like reaction) so it still seems extremely doubtful that Hubbard would have been able to get “clinically dead for 8 minutes” as a result of a mixed ether/nitrous anesthetic.

  • Krista

    Thanks for a very insightful article again, Jon. The more I get to know about the man behind the cult, the more I despise him. I can’t understand the indies who maintain that Ronnie’s teachings are great…

    On another note: my kids were paying this morning and “little man” was the bad guy. “He is the captain of the bad guys”, my oldest explained. I may have been talking about Scientology too much – lol!

  • Patty Moher

    Now you know why some of us have such a hard time coming to terms with being in a cult and following the words of a madman that not only was involved in Satan Worship but was first class boozer and drug taker. This shit is really bad for the self esteem. LOL.

    • aquaclara

      Love this comment….

    • sugarplumfairy

      I wondered for years how my smart, sincere, sweet medical-student bf could have been hooked into co$.. I seriously considered that maybe he had some mental defect I had never noticed.. Then I read Jefferson’s Counterfeit Dreams.. It explained so much to me.. Co$ targets dreamers and idealists.. They target the best, kindest, most open and honest among us.. Makes me wanna slap hubbard senseless..

    • Poison Ivy

      Glad you’re better now, Patty!

    • villagedianne

      Perhaps it will help to think of it this way: The good stuff Hubbard stole from others, the bad stuff he came up with himself.

  • Deimos

    Hmmm, Hubtard dead before Dianetics, no Co$ ? Wonder what would have happened to the main protagonists without it ? I see lots of very successful pyramid marketing careers.

    • ze moo

      Until the mission holders ‘conference’ in 1983, $cientology was a very well run pyramid marketing scheme. That is what the old clams call the ‘good old days’. Money flowed up the pyramid to Lroon and everybody took their cut along the way. Now all the money goes to Stupor Powerz and Ideal Orgs?? Those scams are only spending a fraction of the money raised. Lawyers and private investigators can’t be spending that much, where is the money really going??

      • Poison Ivy

        Reading “Blue Sky,” I was astonished at the amounts of money the Mission Holders made. And in 1980’s dollars!

  • Simi Valley

    I stopped reading Marty Rathbun’s blog almost a year ago, even though it was the first site I went to on New Year’s Day 2012 when I got the big wakeup call from Debbie Cook’s email, and it remained the center of my universe during that crazy time when I was under the radar and preparing to bail from the cult. It’s a healthy sign that Marty is exploring and questioning. Even in my first month under the radar, once the bubble had been burst, I started seeing the evil and hypocrisy in Hubbard, so for me it was a natural progression from cultie to indie to ex. I hope that more and more indies will take a hard look at the reality of the situation and have the courage to act accordingly.

    • EnthralledObserver

      I remember Marty announcing your exit, then it seemed not long after Tony was announcing your exit exit… it made me very happy that someone could make those realisations so quickly – I found hope for others in your awakening. So glad you made it out and are totally free of Hubbard rubbish now. :)

      • Simi Valley

        I’m not exactly “totally free of Hubbard rubbish” yet, though I can’t wait for that day to arrive. I still go through this process of thinking about something the way a scilon would, then realizing that that was Hubbard’s pronouncement on that particular thing, and having to analyze it and decide what my own think on it should be. That pretty much was how things have gone down this year, and I still have a ways to go. I’ve also been dealing with PTSD and while I made the decision not to see a shrink for it, I am sort of being my own shrink, keeping a journal, reading some self-help books as Tory has suggested.

        My first big interview as an ex will be posted to youtube soon, which was filmed in early March of this year. My face will be bleeped out in that vid because I was way too freaked to do anything but. A friend who is an ex just told me it took her 5 years after leaving Scientology to feel completely normal, and for some others it takes even longer. One thing I have noticed is that people with a lot of “tech” training have a really hard time letting go and getting normalized post-cult. Those people put in enormous amounts of time, effort and money to achieve those “certs,” and it must be a bitch to be able to admit that it’s a load of crap and a total waste of their life. Fortunately, I never made it as a highly classed auditor, so it was probably easier for me.

        • Natasha Boris

          You said above “it was a natural progression from cultie to indie to ex” and how true that is! It’s taken me just under a year to get there, even though I’m still under the radar. I know exactly what you mean too about thinking in Scn and having to mentally shove oneself out of it. From everyone I’ve talked to and exchanged emails with coming out of that “think” can take a really long time. Cheers to you on the journey!

        • EnthralledObserver

          I hear you… I’m a never in so I need to be educated or reminded of the lasting effects on a person. I didn’t mean to minimise your ongoing journey… just that you aren’t publically clinging to it or LRonny. You sound like you are on a good path… and I hope it continues to go in a positive direction for you 😀 *hugs*

        • Seannie5

          I look forward to your interview! Happy to see more people out!

        • Miss Tia

          I have PTSD (I was never in CO$, it’s from an abusive childhood) but I can empathize with anyone who has it. I had 12 years of therapy and I think I might have gained more benefits on my own? Everyone’s path and coping is different, there’s no ‘one size fits all’, as I am sure you are aware. Something I found really beneficial, is if/when you get to the anger point, write a letter to CO$ and pour it ALL OUT. Then when you feel ready, symbolically burn it and envision your anger dissipating. I wrote my birth mother a 27 page–hand written both sides—letter and well, I actually mailed; and when I put it in the mailbox, wow, I just felt FREE.

          PTSD will always be with you in some way or another but developing coping techniques that work for you will help you. ALWAYS remember it is NOT your fault. Tory is such a positive person!!! ((HUGS))

          • NOLAGirl

            I want to upvote that ELEVENTY MILLION times. 😀

          • Sidney18511

            Miss Tia…..I read your story on your site and it broke by heart. You are such a strong compassionate woman now because of your past and how you handled it. Your story shows that no matter what has happened in ones life, we can learn and become a better person. You are amazing.

            • Miss Tia

              Aw thank you Sidney, I know I speak out now for those who are in situations where they are ‘trapped with no voice’ because no one spoke up for me so I can truly empathize–even if it’s a different kind of entrapment—with the basic feelings of helplessness. I hope I can help some people realize you can survive AND thrive despite what was done to you and to view yourself as a survivor, not a victim. Every day living your life as YOU want, is a victory (that’s how I view it :) I obviously STILL have PTSD and always will, but I can function in society in a law abiding way and try to help others the best I can, I think that’s what most people want in life, no matter their circumstances. ((HUGS))

          • joan nieman

            Lots of love coming your way Miss Tia!

            • Casabeca

              Every day, all day!

            • Miss Tia

              aw thanks joan!! ((HUGS))

          • Reality Scamz

            Kind of like the Pink Bubble technique that Shakti Gawain uses in mental imagery. Thinking of the image of a Pink bubble than release it and let it float away. I have bought her, “Creative Visualizations” tape for quite a few people.
            YMMV

            • Miss Tia

              I’ve never heard of that (will ‘hearsay’ that in a minute) but yes, that is similar! I think, and this is again, my personal experience and everyone is different, when it comes to somethings, it helps to have a tangible item….but i love the idea of a pink bubble and might use that when i get irked waiting in lines!! :)

            • Reality Scamz

              It’s your choice she has the publication on CD & Tape. I found it to be great just before bed there are a series of imagery exercises you can choose from to use. Then if you want you find some of your favorites and go to town. She also has a soothing voice.
              I learned about her from my Sister in law the Psychologist.
              Just an idea

            • Miss Tia

              Definitely looking into this!! Thank you!! :)

            • Poison Ivy

              Her book actually helped me through my divorce as a young whippersnapper getting out of a really emotionally abusive marriage. It may be a little on the “woo woo” side for me now, but it really helped out then.

            • Reality Scamz

              I have found her to work to be extremely successful as I have given at least 10 CD’s to girls that I have known in crisis. With no insurance or money why not give it a shot. They all seemed to like the methods in the CD. I’ve seen the book as well I think Shakti like I said has a very soothing voice.

            • Poison Ivy

              She’s quite accessible as a writer as well.

        • NOLAGirl

          (((((HUGS)))))) Wishing you nothing but happiness!!! :)

          • Simi Valley

            Thanks! In the interview I filmed for youtube, I try to explain the transition from normal person to cultie — how and when it begins, etc. — so that people can sort of get inside the head of a cultie and understand what it’s like to be brainwashed, hypnotized and suffer the loss of cognitive dissonance.

            • Sidney18511

              please let us know when the video is available. Wishing you good things Simi.

            • NOLAGirl

              I’m glad you did it. It’s so important for people who’ve never been in or people trying to get out to understand how this works and why it works. Thank you for choosing to be open about it, you’re going to help untold numbers of people with your story.

            • Simi Valley

              Just in the last month or so, I finally twigged why I got into the cult in the first place. A potential cultie is always seeking something, dreaming about something, or feels that some essential is missing from their life. I will probably say more about that later, or post another vid about it.

            • Espiando

              You’ve just demonstrated one of the key factors that makes Scientology different from other self-help philosophies, and more dangerous: you found your own ruin (compare, say, Alcoholics Anonymous’ first step in the twelve-step program: admit you have a problem). Scientology tells you you have a ruin, then tells you they can help you get rid of it, for a price. Let Us Prey, indeed.

            • Poison Ivy

              AND…YOU are responsible for getting rid of your own ruin, and if you still have it after years and $hundredsofthousandsof$ in Scientology, it’s your fault; you’re not doing it right.

              As opposed to the idea from 12 steps which is simply to be willing to let go of that “ruin” and let God/The Universe/Your Support Group/Whatever help you work through it.

              Personally, when I try too hard to handle something – when I beat myself up over not being able to ‘just do it!’ or ‘snap out of it’ – the problem increases tenfold. I can’t imagine being a Scientologist, when the doctrine tells you to do just that.

            • NOLAGirl

              “I will probably say more about that later,”

              When you’re ready Simi, it has to be at your pace. In the meantime, there are always ((hugs)) here for you. :)

        • Poison Ivy

          Simi, just by talking about it (and journaling about it, especially) you are healing. You have more courage than a lot of those I read at the Indie sites who still try and twist reality into a pretzel, explaining, “Yes, but what Hubbard REALLY meant was…”

          Just think of the mental energy you are saving by not working your mind into those kinds of contortions.

          There are some very good therapists who deal with PTSD on a regular basis. The epidemic of PTSD (and often, PTSD with attendant TBI’s) coming back from Afghanistan and Iraq has prompted a lot of new research into the phenomenon. I know in cultic terms, it’s often called “floating”, when you snap back into the pattern of thinking into which you were indoctrinated. But even if you do treat yourself, the first step is the kind of honesty you exhibit here. Good luck and I’m quite in awe of your courage.

          • Simi Valley

            Thanks … just a couple of days ago, I spent a number of hours looking up shrinks in my neighborhood and noting which ones specialize in PTSD. I decided against it for now because I feel like I’m doing a decent job of being by own shrink, but as you said, the journaling is helping a lot, and I’m hanging on to that list in case I change my mind at some point.

            If anyone is interested, I think this is a good referral source for shrinks:

            http://therapists.psychologytoday.com/rms/?tr=Hdr_SubBrand

            • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

              Simi, why are you not seeing a counselor? What is stopping you?

              It doesn’t make you a weaker person to see a therapist; it doesn’t make you a stronger person not to. PTSD is a serious condition.

            • Simi Valley

              I’ve thought about seeing a therapist a lot off and on for the past 1.5 years. Right now I’m very satisfied with my progress. Aside from the journaling and decompressing in a very tranquil environment, I’m working on music and other things I love that I had to shove onto the back burner when I was in the cult. But I actually started doing that around 1998 — even though that was 13 years before I officially left, I had decided to indulge myself. For example, in 1998 I suddenly realized that I could own my own Sony Walkman and have my own CD collection of my favorite music and listen to that whenever I wanted. Something like that, which was totally normal for other people, was a novelty for me, so I quietly distanced myself from the cult and spent a bunch of money on music and things to pamper myself. Not one more dime to the IAS or to the “bridge,” but to things that gave me enjoyment.

            • Sir Hemet TC Burlwood, VIII

              I have become a big fan of mindful breathing as an approach to coping with the physiological unpinings of the emotional response to the life experience, including the disassociative aspects of PTSD, which cults despicably train into their victims. Check out the following site under ‘free resources’ for audio recordings to add to you collection.
              freemindfulness.org

            • Reality Scamz

              Just breathe very sage advice many sports athletes use an exercise for that therapy. Breathe in slowly for 10 secs, hold 10 sec, exhale 10 secs. Concentrating on the counting and breathing they do this for 3 cycles. It is supposed to have an immediate effect on your mental state, respiration and heart rate.

            • Sir Hemet TC Burlwood, VIII

              Yep. One of the key ingredients for me is to focus, not on the counting, but on the various and very specific physical sensations associated with breath. Counting is a cognitive activity and keeps me too much in my head, and holding the breath is not a natural aspect of breathing and, in part, is one of the maladaptive responses to anxiety. While some breathing techniques work better than others for different purposes (and I kinda hate to use these words) it really is what ever works for you.

            • Reality Scamz

              The counting aspect is to shall we say disconnect the brain like in meditation. The holding of the breath is to reset your breathing cycle back to a semi-normal state.
              YMMV

            • Poison Ivy

              Yeah, it really is whatever works for you. It’s a cliché but true. Which is why I’m fine with anyone who wants to audit if that’s what works for them – but don’t get near me with your Hubbard lies and toxic doctrine.

            • Poison Ivy

              I tried this (mindful breathing) when dealing with extreme panic attacks over severe grief…and the mindful breathing actually made me worse. I know, I’m a head case. Exercise – which usually calmed me – made the panic attacks worse. What I found calmed me was reading, writing, designing, video editing, yoga (in which the mindful breathing was a part but I was doing it automatically while focusing on my body) – focused displacement activity that employed my whole mind. Gradually the panic attacks disappeared. I took theanine and other aminos instead of xanax, though I still keep a little xanax around because “it works in your purse.” If you know you have it, you don’t use it (at least I don’t – it puts me INSTANTLY asleep; even the tiniest dose.)

            • Reality Scamz

              Thank you that was interesting I guess different methods work for different people.

            • Poison Ivy

              The Evil Psych who taught me the mindful breathing was really angry at me. But I swear, I gave it my all. This was for a very limited period, mind you.

            • StatusLevelUP

              Just curious… how long did you exercise? Stress hormones start to accumulate after 30 minutes or so, and too much of that can be harsh.

            • StatusLevelUP

              Great stuff! I’m also an advocate of measuring the heart rate variability (HRV) as an adjunct to mindful breathing. HRV monitors are relatively inexpensive and can accurately track your stress levels in real time with software and a USB connection. The one I use is emWave2, but there are a variety available.

            • ThetaBara

              Interesting! Wish I’d known about this when it was really bad.

            • Cat Daddy

              Here is a link to an Essay you might find usefull, or not

              http://www.cirp.org/library/psych/vanderkolk/

            • Casabeca

              I very much look forward to your video. Your self awareness, honesty, intelligence and appropriate openness are such good signs that you will make great progress in healing. A dear friend of mine has PTSD and he found EMDI to be quite helpful. It is an honor to hear you story. I wish you all good things.

            • GlibWog

              Anytime you need to Scream, Vent, Laugh, Cry.. get a hug or just gab..

              The Bunker is a safe place to land. We are all proud of your courage. Love Glibby

            • aquaclara

              The whole idea of music as a tool is good…it can center you, especially when your. Mind is all over the place. I hope you find it uplifting and relaxing as well. Best of luck to you, Simi! You’re doing amazing things right now, and I know things will only get easier. Bunker’s always open when you need it.
              It’s great o have you here. Hugs to you on your continued progress.

            • Jesse Prince

              You are doing exactly what you need to do to recover in my opinion. It takes time and self reflection. Please have something practical you put first thought, like living life or taking care of children if you have them. Balancing your new life is important to your sanity and maintaining good social skills.

            • noseinabk

              I found this article by Robert Vaughn Young helpful to me as a never-in, understand what an ex may go through and why it takes time to come to grips with. It is easy for us to make the accusation of scientologist being brainwashed but that is just generalizing. I think that battered person syndrome may describe it better.
              Good luck to you.
              http://www.lermanet.com/cos/mindcontrolmodel.htm

            • GSioux

              Since you are aware of the Lalich/Tobias book, I assume you are aware of the International Cultic Studies Association which has many helpful resources. Journaling is a powerful practice – sounds like that is working well for you. Regarding referral sites, check with them about their criteria for listing psychotherapists. For EMDR referrals, http://www.emdrreferrals.com will give you a list of specialists in your area and the level of training they have experienced. After that, it is still necessary to be “the consumer”. Always feel safe or move on! I am a psychotherapist – have a brother in Scientology and also work with ex-cult members from The Community of Jesus on Cape Cod. And I find it a challenge to find cult-savvy psychotherapists to refer to when my practice is full. So it’s great you have Tory! Best to you!

            • Poison Ivy

              (Really proud of you, Simi. The easiest route is ALWAYS to stay the same. Any change takes courage; this stuff is monumental.)

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          It is much like cigarette withdrawal I found, having done both. As long as you quit cold turkey, it only takes 36 to 48 hours for the nicotine to be out of your system. But you go through mental triggers and everyone has their own. Many have shared ones, like after cofffee, after a meal, booze, forget about it, but there’s Happy celebrations, Sad moments, just a little teeny tension, and everytime you come back from the store…everyone has a long list. The good news is that once you realize the “craving” is just mental and that it will go away quickly and that once you overcome each trigger, you are usually done with it, except for a few, like after coffee or a meal, which for most are the triggers you have to deal with many times over. But they get less and less over the course of a year and you are feeling SO much better, that when one pops up, it’s a piece of cake. Very similar to the scientology onion peeling. Oh, and the “trigger special words” take the longest to take out.

          This is exactly Why, as you say, it is so much harder and takes longer for the tekkies…they have 100X more triggers!. For those who have invested decades and/or small or large fortunes, I don’t know how they manage to face it without intensive psychiatric pro treatments. This is extremely traumatic stuff and recovery should not be treated lightly. If you’re like most, you may hit a wall here and there. It’s natural, but those are the times when even well meaning friends are not trained and skilled for what you may need to get through to the next level.

          If you are reading a lot and the forums and blogs help, that’s great. After a while, if it is still aversely affecting your or those around you in any way, I highl suggest a talk therapy coach and preferably one who specializes in cults, but if not that, knows his or her stuff dealing with sociopaths and psychopaths and addictions. More than Anything though, get on with your life, do lots of things that make you happy and feel fulfilled, and allot just a small portion of it to your recovery mode. You’ll do just fine.

          • Lady Squash

            I would just like to say that I have taken a major step forward in my recovery journey, (I was In for 34 years and have been out for 2 1/2 years). I started a part-time job! When I left there was no way I could have worked. I was a mess, so confused and shattered.
            The fact I feel able to go back to work is a milestone for me.
            Needless to say my boss isn’t a Scientologist. She’s great, she doesn’t micromanagement me, appreciates what I do for her, doesn’t ask me to do bizarre things that make no sense and her expectations are realistic. It is such a relief to be in a non-Scientology environment.

            • aquaclara

              You’ve reached a great milestone, Lady Squash. Wow! Overturning 34 years of a learned behavior is a huge effort. Look at how well you’re doing! It’s great that you’re out, and free from the old life. Wishing you much success.

              I hope it’s a lovely day today where you are….:)

        • richelieu jr

          I’ve heard that, much like love affairs, it generally takes you as long being out as you were in to get over it.
          That said, I think it depends on so many factors, a network of unsupported, traumatic incidents related to the issue, etc… Kids who grew up May never be truly ‘free’ because they have no real ‘before’ to get back to, plus their brains were growing and the niring was physically changed to match Hubbard’d fried mind…
          Still, and as much as I hate the cult, I don’t think the healthiest was is to flat out reject the entire experience as it is part of you, inevitably so and will remain that way no matter what. We are the sum of our experiences…
          This does not, I hasten to add, mean I in any way support this ‘Independent movement’, ‘ Hubbard light’ (hah! Imagine those two words ina sentence! Who could have?) conception of a soft landing. Yes, it is good to have people around you who know the lingo and the process of leaving. You don’t stop stealing by stealing smaller objecs, or stop,paying for nonsense by buying the same books and magic tin can seances for less from, well, whomever..
          Remember, the very sinister essence of Hubbardismnisntontake the weak, and needy and confused, convince them,you can help them, then hypnotize team and start seilin them books and therapies that are just a hodge-lodge of other religions and ideas. Let’s try

          • richelieu jr

            …Freud and Objectivism with a little slice of self-help and a Buddha on top, shall we?

            The nasty cancerous center is Hubbard, everything else is available elsewhere for free and in better quality.
            At least Marty has stopped ending ever discussion with, “We’ve got an app for that, file number HubBigFatLearner1138… Now on sale for…”
            Everytime Scientology’ has faced a crisis from,year one it pretends to reject the bad parts, changes name/board/pamphlet tes/city/state/Country/leaves dry land/pretends to end fair game by saying “Don’t call it FG, it’s bad PR/there is no Guardian’s Office/we help,kids/fight drugs too, Ronnie!/clean up our town/hate communism..etc, etc, on and on….

            The cure for Hubbardism is reality, not more of he same, or another cult, or descent into addiction, or whatever.

            Don’t reject yourself! That’s what they’ve been trying,to get everyone to do from day 1! It is not your fault, it’s theirs! You did your best and they soldnyounlies, used your better self against you, told you you shouldn’t want sex/cry fornyournmommy/keep the baby/sue them/discuss this bulshit with your friends

            • richelieu jr

              YOU didn’t do this, THEY did, LRH, Mary Sue, Miscavige, nd yes local heroes Mike and Marty, as well, to one degree or another…

              You cannot buy truth. those guys owe the entire world a Frggloader Debt for getting by on our good will and social systems and health care and trust and then making you feh YOU are the thing that’s wrong….

              If it has a price tag on it, it isn’t the truth (or it is stolen and being prostitued) Truth is never a bargain or discounted. It is there for everybody. And it doesn’t need to be updated and reissued.
              You don’t need two copies of it.
              And there’s enough to go around.
              I exists whether the statute of,limitations has run out or not
              Or whether you sent the documents to LA on the first plane out of Clearwater.
              You don’t have to be locked ina room/or a Hole against your Ill to find it.
              And if you have the sniffles, it doesn’t go away.
              There is no wall of fire around it
              (Though there is often a huge wall of bullshit)
              And L Ron Hubbard wouldn’t know it if it bit him on his sagging moob.

              You don’t even need nitrous oxide.

            • Poison Ivy

              “We’ve got an app for that” – that’s exactly the way Scientology operates!
              One app fits all.

    • koki

      all scientologyst,are exscientologyst – they just dont know that jet… as posted on ESMB as my favorite qoute…
      and a big hello from LRHs Bulgravia.

      • Cat Daddy

        Do you want to know where that is ?

    • Sarah James

      So glad your out. Healing is an on going process. It has always seemed to me that recognizing their is a problem is not so much the issue ( can be brushed over in a thousand different ways.) Acting on new independent thought is the key. I enjoy Marty’s writings for that reason. I feel relief every time I hear someone talk of scientology as something they were in (past tense.)

  • koki

    I am always amazed ,that some people(posters) here know how to do a funny images of LRH,then know how to make fun of someone ,or even know what/where to use interwebs to find some stupid LRHs policy,but they still have a hard time to know some of famous LRHs qualities…..(drugs,punishment,rape,scam,punishment,drugs,etc…)
    google is your friend!

    and a big hello from LRhs Bulgravia.

  • Snippy_X

    He proclaims alcohol is the worst drug, yet proclaims in the final pages of the Narconon materials that alcohol is OK in moderation once a person has completed the program; unimaginable advice to give a “recovering” alcoholic. This seems to be some of the rationalization behind staff drinking and partying in front of “students” at Narconon.

    (Can’t find the quote right now. DL found it a while back. Also never sure about use of semicolons.)

    • NOLAGirl

      That idea “that alcohol is OK in moderation once a person has completed the program” will FOREVER piss me off!!

      My mother is a recovering alcoholic, it took us a LONG time to get her into treatment and thankfully she’s been clean now for years, but even now…I’d never serve wine, etc. when she’s around just because I wouldn’t want to make her feel uncomfortable or tempted.

      I hope Hubbard is sleeping in a dumpster in Hell.

      • Poison Ivy

        That idea that an alcoholic can drink ” normally ” after a period of abstinence is responsible for countless deaths and broken lives. For a “heavy drinker,” okay, maybe. But a “heavy drinker” on his or her own ( without a concurrent drug problem) is unlikely to end up in Narconon. For a true alcoholic, there is no such thing as “moderation.” In fact, “trying again” after a period of abstinence often results in an escalation of the addiction to frightening levels. I’ve lost three friends to this myth. Three.

        • NOLAGirl

          I’m so sorry for your loss Ivy. :( (((HUGS)))

          • Poison Ivy

            TY Nola. Two of the people were very, very close to me. One less so but it was still quite a shock; he was pretty young.

        • Captain Howdy

          Alcohol is the worse drug ever..period.

          • Poison Ivy

            Yeah, sadly, it is. As nice as it is when used “properly” – a cool glass of chardonnay on the deck at sunset, for example. Even non-alcoholics can get into horrible trouble when alcohol is involved – DUI’s, drunk driving deaths and injuries of others, violence, ‘date rape’ and rape – so many of these things that destroy the lives of ordinary people can and do happen around alcohol.

            I’m sure Davey’s already insane and sociopathic behavior is fueled and augmented by alcohol.

            • Captain Howdy

              Most of the folks in jail are there because they were DRUNK not HIGH and you can die from alcohol withdrawal but not heroin.

          • kemist

            I have always wondered why people like to get drunk.

            Even when it doesn’t give me a OMG-I-WANT-TO-FKING-DIE-NOW-PLEASE migraine with its accompanying nausea, or what is called a vestibular migraine (hours of a very annoying sensation of vertigo), I have no particular liking for it.

            It does not make me more social, in fact I am likely to end up alone sitting in a corner of the room, hypnotically staring at a fireplace or TV program, not daring to get up because my already fucked-up proprioception becomes so bad I’m apt to trip on my own feet.

            And people voluntarily get in this state ? They’re nuts.

            • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

              No, people don’t want to get into the state you are in when you are drunk. They want to get in the state they are in when they are drunk. Drugs react differently on different bodies, and alcohol in particular seems to have a very wide range of effects that is also dependent on the kind of alcohol drunk. Plus for alcoholics, it’s not necessarily something that’s wanted: it’s a need, not a desire.

            • Poison Ivy

              Alcoholics get a really different kind of high from alcohol than you do. To them it is the most wonderful thing in the world. You don’t have the same reaction to it, because your internal chemical processes are vastly different. It’s got nothing to do with “willpower” or being social or anti-social. If a person is an actual alcoholic, the chemical process of alcohol hitting the system is a boom-wow-gotta have more now one. Some alcoholics have this right off the bat – from their very first drink ever. For others, it takes years of regular drinking for the chemistry to go awry. But once it’s gone, it’s gone. I suppose the next big breakthrough for alcoholics who still wish they could drink “normally” would be a way to undo that damage, or rewire the system completely, so to speak. So far nothing has come along to do that.

            • kemist

              It has to be.

              It’s only that given my own sensations under the effect of alcohol, it’s a bit hard to imagine that people might like it. The interesting thing is that my entire family is also largely composed of non-drinkers. I’ve never seen my parents or uncles/aunts drunk, with only one exception, and he is not genetically related to me.

              Given the cultural importance of alcohol consumption where I live, I’m always asked questions on why I refuse drinks. Religious belief ? Nope, I’m an atheist. Then I usually get asked if I am a recovering alcoholic. No, I just don’t like the effect it has on me. Really ? Yep, really. Just give me a Red Bull now would you ? Consider me the designed driver.

              I may accept, in optimal conditions, one, and only one, small drink of hard liquor or beer if it is tasty, as those are less likely to trigger migraines; wine is an almost certain migraine or major digestive upset trigger and I have learned over time to never, ever drink it.

            • StatusLevelUP

              Similar for me with pot. I wish I liked it, but it makes me feel awful. Like vomit awful.

            • kemist

              Weirdly, pot has done strictly nothing to me on the few occasions I’ve tried it.

              I was disappoint. Other people seemed to have fun.

            • Reality Scamz

              When I was in the service on Shore Patrol duty part of our area was the bar. On weekends when we had mellow bands we had a lot less trouble. Rock n Roll, Oh Mama. An off duty Petty officer told a Seaman not to wear his duty belt with civies. The guy totally lost it from really not a mean comment it took me and my partner to take him down.

        • Once_Born

          I second that!

          I know someone who stopped smoking in his 40’s. It was difficult for him.

          He told me that he was sometimes tempted to light up, but resisted because he knew that ‘just one smoke’ would not be a minor setback – it would take him right back to square one.

          Alcohol, nicotine, whatever – I respect anyone addict who gives up and stays clean, because the temptation is always there.

        • Missionary Kid

          Someone, correct me on this, but there was an experiment done some years ago to see if alcoholics could be taught to drink in moderation using psychological training techniques. I’ve heard that initially, it was successful, but in a long term follow-up, all of the subjects relapsed.

          • Once_Born

            Google scholar is a good way to find serious studies like this.

            • Missionary Kid

              I’ll have to admit that I’m too lazy to try to find the study, since it was showing signs of failure early on.

          • Poison Ivy

            That is because they have now shown (addiction studies – really interesting stuff) that there are indeed changes in the brain that take place in an alcoholic as opposed to a heavy drinker. So an alcoholic can have all the tools in the world to drink ‘repsonsibly,’ but once s/he takes that first drink, all bets are off. Way back in the ’30’s, Bill W and his gang called it “the phenomena of craving.” Now, real scientists can prove that it is an actual physical/chemical process.

      • Jon Hendry

        I hope Hubbard *is* a dumpster in Hell. Or a toilet. Yes, a toilet. “Open wide, Hub, Satan had a bad burrito!”

    • Captain Howdy

      Scientologists believe that the Narconon treatment can cure you of alcoholism and once completed you can drink in safety again, In fact from what I’ve read they sometimes make you drink before you leave to prove this.

      • Orglodyte

        Feels like one of Hubbard’s self-delusions. It’s a most convenient and brilliant drinking cure, one that allows you to keep drinking.

        • Poison Ivy

          Every alcoholic would love that to be true, but it ain’t.

      • Snippy_X

        That’s insane! I figured he through that in at the end to undo any sobriety a client may have achieved and cash in again on the return customers. If Hubbard actually believed this, his medical buffoonery is only surpassed by his arrogance.

    • Robert Eckert

      Alcohol inspires some true devotion in its followers:

      http://www.ajc.com/news/news/report-man-goes-into-burning-home-to-save-beer/nbYzK/

      • Snippy_X

        wow … no words!

  • BosonStark

    I liked the Don Jolly article on Marty very much. After he left the cult, Marty’s evolution can be summarized as a process where he began by seeing everything through Scientology’s lens. Through his other reading, he began to draw back and started to see Scientology through everything, and as Marty himself says, “graduated” and transcended.

    I also like that Marty described the “end phenomena” of Scientology as reflected in the Cruise video, where basically Cruise comes off as a KSW-obsessed loon who thinks only Scientology has “all the answers,” and that clams are the only ones who can really “improve conditions” and help at car accidents. You’re either in or you’re out, and on and on.

    Since Marty was instrumental in helping Cruise reach that state, it’s good to know he’s more interested in helping people graduate from it now.

  • 1subgenius

    “Having read it again this year, I wondered how on earth I could have spent twenty-seven years effectively donning a yellow robe and devoting my life to a cult. ”

    http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/10/21/siddhartha/

    • RMycroft

      Marty, it’s okay to say “toy navy sailor suit”, you know?

      • 3feetback-of-COS

        Its make-believe-navy suit.

  • Chocolate Velvet

    This is interesting stuff. If it were common knowledge among scientologists that their source used and advocated the use of some drugs, would it change how they deify him? Probably not. Besides, Hubs was just being a good Crowleyite. Drug use can be a regular part of their practices — although these days it’s a lot more mushrooms and a lot less speed, judging from what I’ve read. Jack Parsons, Ron’s magickal pal, wrote a poem extolling the ecstasy of intoxication which is one of his better-known works.

    Hubbard’s attitude about stimulant drugs was actually in step with the fifties and early sixties. Back then, the “experts” were simply ignorant of the negative effects, and not really interested in finding out because of the promising possibilities. “Better living through chemistry” was a popular idea in America in that era. Hubs was not the only one to think stimulants were psychologically beneficial. Freud certainly bought into that thinking in his own time. His writings about cocaine and it’s benefits to depressives, his use of it in treating some patients, and his own struggle with cocaine addiction, are well known in the field.

    Of course, when I studied Freud’s theories in grad school, no one expected me to treat him as a god and ignore his glaring faults. Quite the opposite, in fact; we often laughed at his sillier theories as typical cokehead thinking. No infallible “source”, just a man with big theories that have not aged well, and have been vastly improved on since his time.

    • Straight Diet of Kerbango

      Have to defend Freud a little. Much of his thought has aged quite well:

      – Early childhood experience influences adulthood

      – Sexual drive is an important motivating factor in human beings
      – We use defenses to maintain psychic equilibrium
      – Not everything remembered from childhood is accurate
      – One on one ‘talking cure’ benefits people
      – It might not be a good idea to sleep with patients
      – Working with resistance in therapy is important
      – Transference and countertransference happens
      – Came up with topographical model and structural model – extremely influential models and still fairly useful constructs.
      – Etc. All completely novel ideas at the time.

      • Missionary Kid

        This is a personal viewpoint on Freud.
        I look at his work as, in a way, replacing the concept of different spirits or devil(s) possessing an individual with components of the unconscious, such as the Id, the Ego, and the Superego. He replaced deities as a way of describing how the mind works and provided a framework separate from religion or belief to describe its workings. He provided a common language for the description of its workings.

        IMO, Hubbard came along and reintroduced thetans as spirits, separate from the mind. In essence, he regressed the whole study of the mind with his concepts. Not only was this a step backwards, but it created descriptions of the working of the mind and a vocabulary that isolates his followers from the rest of society, because it is not a part of the lingua franca of Psychology, which has progressed far beyond Hubbard’s evil skewed cosmology.

        • Straight Diet of Kerbango

          I’ll rephrase: Let’s replace “aged well” with “much of his work remains highly influential and relevant and not to be discarded out of hand because he said a lot of goofy things.” No matter your orientation – cognitive, behavioral, humanistic, motivational – you can’t escape phenomena first characterized by Freud. Often it is just different jargon to describe the same thing.

          “provided a framework separate from religion or belief to describe its workings.”
          –The same can be said of any descriptive model in developed through the years in psychology.

          Minor point, but Id, Ego, Super Ego are not components of the unconscious. The value of the structural model (Id, Ego, Super Ego) is much more mundane and useful than replacement of spirits. There is a ‘part’ of us that is base drives (sex, aggression) that are often socially unacceptable, there is a ‘part’ of us that is internalized values of right and wrong that comes in conflict with our drives, there is a ‘part’ of us that regulates between these two. Was there another model that was more compelling than this at the time Freud published? It remains fairly useful shorthand and actually is not especially contradictory to neuroscience.

          • Missionary Kid

            Thank you for your corrections. You put things better than I could. I was being somewhat simplistic.

            LRH borrowed some of those concepts, but he moved psychology backwards for his followers because all he was trying to do is make money.

      • Poison Ivy

        “It might not be a good idea to sleep with patients” Ha ha!

        At first I read this as “It might not be a good idea to sleep with PARENTS.” An idea which, clearly, Freud squirreled from Sophocles (Oedipus Rex)…

      • Chocolate Velvet

        Yeah, I was being a little hard on the guy. He is the father of modern psychology, and all that. 😉

        It’s a bit of a holdover from my professional days, I suppose. Freud casts such a large shadow, it can be helpful to poke holes in his image just to keep thinking about the subject matter in fresh ways. Plus, he was indeed too fond of cocaine for a time, and that’s a good thing to keep in mind when reading some of his work.

        • kemist

          I suspect his fondness for cocaine was not quite related to its psychostimulant effects :).

          • Straight Diet of Kerbango

            Is there anything else to be fond of from cocaine besides stimulant effect? Besides local analgesia and constriction.

            • kemist

              It provokes a short-timed high, but only if you snort it.

            • StatusLevelUP

              It makes you curious…. about where you’re gonna get more coke

    • Reality Scamz

      Do you have any thoughts on Karl Jung?

      • Chocolate Velvet

        In what respect? Regarding substances, or just in general?

        In general, I think he was just as seminal to our modern culture as Freud. More so, in terms of our modern understanding of ourselves as conscious entities — particularly as it is expressed in literature, art, and popular culture. Jung’s more mystical perspective on human psychology was an excellent foil to Freud in my own education. I think Jung, as a student, did his teacher proud by taking Freud’s ideas in a direction Freud never could have. But there are as many varied opinions on the value of his work as there are of Freud’s. Personally, I am fond of his ideas, and a lot of my training was heavily influenced by Jung.

        Did Jung do drugs? I don’t remember ever hearing that he did, but I don’t know.

        • Reality Scamz

          Thank you I am a fan of him myself so is my Sister in law. I just wanted to hear from someone who was educated with a mental health background to get their perspective:)

        • StatusLevelUP

          His Red Book is amazing. The guy had some wicked visions.

        • Poison Ivy

          I’m a big fan of Jung’s myself. Personally – and this is personally – I think Freud’s omission of the spiritual side of human nature caused him to miss a lot of important stuff. I first read Jung in high school and got that sort of intuitive “chilly” feeling I get when something really clicks with me. Of course, there has been so much added to your field since his day, and he was wrong about a lot of things. But I think he was as you describe him – a student who took his teacher’s work to the next level.

          (There hasn’t been anyone doing that with CO$ – have you noticed??)

          I also don’t know about Jung and drugs, but did you know he was seminal in the pre-AA days of AA?

          http://www.cgjungpage.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=704&Itemid=40

          To summarize the story as I recall it: An alcoholic from America, “Roland,” went to see Jung for help with his drinking. Jung worked with the guy and finally told him that things looked bleak; that he’d tried to treat alcoholics of “his type” (i.e. the ones who just can’t stop and are basically about to die) before and never had any success…unless Roland somehow had some sort of spiritual experience or awakening, that completely rejiggered the way he looked at the world and at himself. “Roland” went back to the USA and did indeed have such a spiritual experience and became part of The Oxford Group ( a sort of cultish Christian predecessor to AA), where he met “Ebby,” who was Bill W’s pal, who told Bill what Jung told Roland.

          Kind of cool, no?

      • grundoon

        Jung seems to have been the inventor of the e-meter.

        ON PSYCHOPHYSICAL RELATIONS OF THE ASSOCIATIVE EXPERIMENT By C. G. Jung, M. D., Journal of Abnormal Psychology, 1907, 2, 247-255.

        PSYCHO-PHYSICAL INVESTIGATIONS WITH THE GALVANOMETER AND PNEUMOGRAPH IN NORMAL AND INSANE INDIVIDUALS FREDERICK PETERSON, M.D., AND C. G. JUNG, M.D., BRAIN, 30, 1907, 153-218.

    • Semper Phi

      “If it were common knowledge among scientologists that their source used and advocated the use of some drugs, would it change how they deify him? Probably not.”

      No, it won’t. They will say, “Even if that is true, it doesn’t matter. I know that the Tech works, and that is what matters.” I heard that recently from an SO member who was trying to “recover” me, and I have heard it before. It’s the ultimate argument stopper, when they can’t get away with putting their hands over their ears and chanting Lalalalala.

    • kemist

      Stimulants are still used in mental health to some extent, to deal with the lack of concentration and extreme, crippling fatigue which can be part of major depression. The idea is that you are much less likely to benefit from any form of therapy if you are constantly sleepy and unable to concentrate for sizable amounts of time.

      The difference with those used in the 50s is how selective they are. Amphetamines, cocaine and caffeine (in large doses) have adrenergic effect as well as psychostimulant effect, which can be harmful to cardiac health. Modern prescribed stimulants, such as ritalin or adderall, do not have the harmful (cardiac) and annoying (i.e. shaking hands, jittery feeling) side effects due to adrenergic activity.

      • Chocolate Velvet

        Yes, thank you for this. The key difference is that our enthusiasm for chemical therapies has been tempered over the decades. Side effects are taken more seriously these days. Mental health wards full of people making terribly bizarre facial expressions and sounds due to their medication, not their illness, are mostly a thing of the past now. Stimulants do serve to benefit some people and can be used very effectively. But they are still sometimes problematic, in terms of the potential for dependency and overuse, and their over-prescription due to careless diagnosis and fads in the culture of mental health.

        And because it is more expedient to perk a depressed patient up with drugs, than to address diet and exercise and providing a healthy, stimulating, and pleasurable environment. That last one is well nigh impossible in an institutional setting. Mental health units are generally depressing places to be, especially if you know you can’t leave. I’ve worked in a couple. The idea of using stimulants on patients in such a setting to make them more amenable to therapy seems crazy to me, unless the intention is to keep them institutionalized and medicated forever, as any success in therapy is contingent on the use of stimulants which are best used under supervision. At best, it seems like a make-do solution in a less-than-ideal situation. But then, I was always an iconoclast and rebel in my chosen field, precisely because a lot of SOPs seem crazy to me. So, take my opinion on this with an appropriate measure of salt. I am no expert on the subject, thankfully. 😉

        • Straight Diet of Kerbango

          “Over-prescription due to careless diagnosis and fads in the culture of mental health.”
          I think – or I like to believe- it’s more of a problem in primary care (and often neurology) than in psychiatry. Personally, I am careful with ADHD diagnoses and pretty stingy with stimulants.

          Psychostimulants are typically useless in the treatment of MDD. A notable exception is low dose stimulants in cancer patients and sometimes in the elderly. Modafinil/armodafinil sadly seems ineffective in bipolar depression.

          The only use I can think of for psycho-stimulants in psychotherapy is to help extremely disorganized ADHD patients remember their appointments :)

        • kemist

          Well, as with all drugs they do wonders in some people, nothing for some, and are catastrophic in others.

          I have worked for some time in the evaluation of disability insurance claims, and a large fraction of the long term work-disabled have mental health issues, mostly with depression.

          What I’ve seen is that the use of different therapies is mostly a trial-and-error thing, and that the patients who have the longest disabilities tend to be the ones whose treatment is managed solely through their regular family doctor.

          Sometimes those patients are on so many different classes of drugs in such haphazard dosage that it’s a wonder they could answer the phone when I had to call them for an update on their situation. One question I would always ask such patients is whether their doctor had spoken to them about consulting a psychiatrist, so that their medication could be managed better. Most of them, after a couple consultations, were put on a single appropriate drug in a reasonable dosage, and could finally (sometimes after months of stagnation) progress with their therapy.

          I guess one of the major problems is that psychotropic drugs are more often than not prescribed by a doctor who has very little understanding of them or of in what situation exactly they should be prescribed, and does not spend enough time with mental health patients to properly evaluate them.

          • Reality Scamz

            Most of the doctors that I know of will require an MD to refer a patient to at least see a psychiatrist twice a year for such drugs. I have a sibling who is a hospital COO and this is the practice with all of their doctors as well.

          • Poison Ivy

            This is the reason CCHR can survive – because there is a little bit of truth in it, from your example above. Everyone can get behind trying to fix the problem of overprescribed psychotropics (and other meds). I mean, it costs us all.

            But there are real people – doctors, regulators, and real medical ethicists – working on real solutions to the problem. CCHR’s “annihilate the psychs” is just insane hysteria. Have you ever heard DM talking about the war against the psychs in his mini-Nuremberg rallies? It’s truly batshit. And that was before he (recently) went off the deep end for good.

            The best lies have a tinge of truthiness in them.

    • Mooser

      I remember a song about the famous Vienna shrink. I can only remember the first line:

      “Freud was shakin’, got real funky, and started up a new dance craze….”
      Do you know the rest?

  • Richard Grant

    Meanwhile in Clearwater … David was a no-show at graduation again last night, Mike Rinder reports.

    So, no announcements, no dates, no relief from the accumulating doubt and anxiety. This isn’t going to end well, and I suspect even the clams are beginning to sense it.

    • 1subgenius

      Vegas (and me) has the odds at 10-1 of no large tent events in Clamwater..

      • ze moo

        They are doing too much work to not do a tent revival. Davey has to use them for something. By missing the ‘maiden voyage’ , imposition of GAT2 and IAS meeting {usually Oct in the UK} he has pissed away any ‘regging’ and that income. The email leaks about short notice trips to Fla are very telling. The staff have been in training for 6 months or more and are not allowed to leave Clearwater. Stupor Powerz has to open and open soon. This screw up will drive more to the indie camp and put the screws to the littlest führer. Even brainwashed clams won’t put up with this clusterf**k.

        The only excuse Davey has left is a life threatening disease. Or maybe Stan Marsh really is the reincarnation of Lroon. Davey had better have a good excuse for the delays, the natives are getting restless.

        • 1subgenius

          Getting exciting isn’t it?

          • ze moo

            The chance of a DM fatal misstep is so high I spasm with anticipation. I should have a beer or two and mellow out. College football games and a pizza should calm me down.

            • Mooser

              ze moo, your explanations of how the revenue-raising aspects of DM’s job interact with the present events is always easy to understand, and makes perfect sense to me.
              So when I start my own (The Loyal Order of Moosie? Hmmmm, I like it), you get a cut, I promise.
              I’ve already had a little experience as the leader of The Litvaks my all-Jewish Sport-Bike Posse. (Women ride in their own group, “The Bitchin’ Balboostas, and non-Jews can join “The Righteous Gentiles MC Club) So I’m ready for the big-time!

        • Once_Born

          I vote for Stan. His heart is good, and even a cartoon character could do a better job that Miscavige.

        • Mooser

          “The only excuse Davey has left is a life threatening disease.”

          Hey, that worked pretty well for the Tai-pings( Heavenly Peace) back in Imperial China days. I believe two of the movement’s leaders used six-month comas, and the revelation they experienced while discommoded, as a basis to claim leadership.

        • GlibWog

          OMG.. SHELLY IS SICK.. Worked for Tommy Davis for awhile..

      • AsthmaticDwarf

        Wish Vegas (and you) would take it, but — the concrete barriers and the 3 freaking fountains Sunny Sands pointed out, bespeak events be coming …

        • Espiando

          With all of the infrastructure going on around the Circus Tent, I’m thinking that they’re going to apply to the city of Clearwater for a “permanent” type of status for it, kind of like the auditorium that they want to put in the parking lot of AOLA, but done on the cheap. If they do that, then I’m certain that my assertion from a month or so ago about the Big-Ass Tent and its symbolism (this is now DM’s church, not Ron’s) is correct.

          • Once_Born

            Do local regulations even permit a permanently occupied tent to be positioned next to a major road? I hope not.

            They might ‘Super Power style’ leave the tent up, and pay the fines levied until they want to take it down… but what about all the other work?

            It seems Miscavige is having to think on his feet for the first time… and is really, really bad at it.

            • Poison Ivy

              Read Marc Headley’s book, which describes how {deftly} Miscavige thinks on his feet, even in the best of times…

          • Poison Ivy

            Speaking of tents, on a rare fall weekend home to the Big Apple, I walked past the NY Marathon tent in Central Park. It’s pretty large and I understand wasn’t even up a week ago. It isn’t as big as Davey’s Tent but it has lots of little tents attached to it as well.

        • 1subgenius

          You pay your money and you take your chances.

        • GlibWog

          My theory is that events will go on because of the Tents..

          But Davey will NOT be there because Shelly is Gravely Ill..( Like that would stop him) bawwwhhhahaha

      • ThetaBara

        I think they’ll at least try to do NYE. And with all those people stuck there from out of town, you’d think something would have to happen sooner or later.

    • Poison Ivy

      Uh oh. Somebody put a tracker on that dude….he’s either about to split or he has already.
      Where is the Freewinds today?

      • Missionary Kid

        I don’t think he’ll use the FleeWinds when he does blow. That would make him too easy to track. If he’s going to use a boat, he’ll use someone elses, I believe. I don’t think he’s much of a sailor, and I think he may be too paranoid to keep many $cions around. Think of it this way, he’s not the kind of a guy to drop into an org and start talking to regular people. He’s got to have a grand entrance, and he doesn’t seem to be the type to kiss babies and shake hands. Someone, correct me on that.

      • Reality Scamz

        Freewinds is docked in Aruba one of three islands it bounces around too.
        http://www.vesselfinder.com/?imo=6810811

      • Robert Eckert

        Freewinds is way too old and rickety to go very far. As an escape pod it is suboptimal.

    • edge

      I remember something Sindy Fagen wrote here recently, that the cult members need constant positive reinforcement, that they are doing the right thing, that they are expanding, that Scientology and only Scientology can save the world, etc. And when that reinforcement ends, the daze begins to disappear and people start to wake up. I’m hoping there’s Sci’s in Clearwater wondering WTF is going on. They keep getting told to prepare for events and to call people in to Clearwater, but without dates it just looks like a big disorganized clustef***, which it is.

      • AsthmaticDwarf

        That is a huge point. Without the rah-rah-rah, “the daze begins to disappear” for members.
        Thanks for bringing that back into the comment stream, for those (like me) who missed it.

        And when Super Power building opens — and it fails, as it may very well as predicted over at RindersBlog won’t the daze lift even further !

    • Sidney18511

      Could it be possible that little Davie blew? Slipped out the back door somehow with bags of cash?

      • Pepsicat

        I would love to think that Davie blew with bags of cash. But I don’t think he’ll ever do that. He’s a psychopath and will keep asserting his rightness in all this right up to his last breath. Kind of like Saddam threatening the crowd as they put a rope around his neck.

        • Mooser

          “Kind of like Saddam threatening the crowd as they put a rope around his neck.”

          Saddam Hussein was not lynched, and have you read the news from Iraq lately? Everything he told them has come true.

      • NevahIn

        I would think it more likely that he would be “in no state to be seen in public”, before be just up and blew. Feels too “early” for that.

        • Poison Ivy

          I don’t know. I suspect he’s pretty badly off right now.
          But he’s clearly still micromanaging the legal cases, so he’s definitely hovering in the background somewhere, barking orders and invectives.

          • NevahIn

            Well, I don’t think he blew just yet. I can too easily imagine him thinking he can “beat the rap”. COB will still be too inclined to think he can pull it off. This is what I think he thinks, your mileage may vary.

          • NevahIn

            I would bet on it. Certain aspects of how the legal situation have progress can only easily be explained that way.

  • Sunny Sands

    Tent Watchers’ Update Back ‘o the Tents on Court St. they are hanging something, a sign? Also, there are concrete barriers, indicated by the red arrows, all along the back of the tent. Davy’s Park now has a working fountain with 3 flows of water coming from the ground where the red circle is.

    • Once_Born

      Do you think the concrete barriers are designed to stop a car being driven through the tent wall?

      • Poison Ivy

        He is that paranoid. Remember, he had John Brousseau build him that bullet-proof SUV way back in 200(3?)

        • Once_Born

          And yet (to quote Sunny Sands) “The speaker’s podium will likely be just on the other side of that flimsy tent wall”.

          This all seems to be very badly improvised. Miscavige’s desperation is beginning to show.

          • Mooser

            “I think the blocks are intended to stop cars – but they don’t
            look quite up to the job – military countermeasures are purpose
            designed, and much bigger and heavier.”

            It should be fairly simple to aim above the concrete blocks, and I don’t think that tent is made of Kevlar! Yup, desperate and afraid. Good.

            • Missionary Kid

              Mooser. Please be careful. Do not suggest violence. One of the few times that Tony has warned someone on this blog has been because they suggested it.
              In a court filing, the Co$ has used some past suggestions on this blog as reason for intimidation of their witness.
              You can do what you wish, but please don’t get involved in it.
              It’s O.K. to suggest what happens to DM when he’s in hell or jail, but otherwise, please, no.

            • Once_Born

              For the record, I was only concerned with safety.

              It seems strange that local regulations should permit a tent to be occupied when it is so close to traffic. Surely this is a serious safety issue.

              Even the CofS implicitly acknowledge that there is a risk by deploying concrete blocks to protect the tent.

            • Missionary Kid

              Are you worried about a car hitting the tent? The traffic is going parallel to the side of the tent, and there’s a space of several feet between the sidewalk and the street.

            • Once_Born

              It doesn’t look safe… However (and more to the point) I think that they are worried about someone deliberately driving into it.

              It’s difficult to talk about, though. As already pointed out, we have to be careful about not appearing to incite violence (which I think is a very bad, and counter-productive idea).

              All told, it’s probably best that CofS paranoia has put those blocks are in place.

          • Snippy_X

            Whatever the blocks are intended for, they will also kill the grass.

            • Missionary Kid

              What’s mere grass, when beautiful oaks have been slaughtered?

            • Poison Ivy

              Now you’ve got me obsessing over those trees again.
              Damn them.

      • NOLAGirl

        Those had me scratching my head too. That looks like something put up around a military base to protect it from car bombs & such. If he’s truly that paranoid, I feel for the people around him.

        EDIT: Thanks Sunny, makes much more sense now. I’ve never been to that area so I appreciate your insight and info.

        • Sunny Sands

          Here is a pic that shows the curve in the road there, and the line of concrete barriers along the tent.

          • NOLAGirl

            That thing really is hideous. Straight Down & Plummeting Dave!!

            Thank you for the pics Sunny. Much appreciated.

            • Sunny Sands

              On the other side of the bus is the Flag 4 story multimillion dollar parking structure. After the whales don evening attire and meet in the tent, they can look across the street at Mecca and next door at the parking garage, and think why are we meeting in a tent?

            • NOLAGirl

              *spits coffee all over keyboard”

              😀 LOL!!!!

            • Observer

              I’m wondering that and I haven’t paid a penny for Super Power.

            • L. C. Spencer

              *APPLAUSE*

            • ze moo

              Even Whales shoes carry dirt to the SP building. Can’t have any dirt in the oiliness tank.

            • Poison Ivy

              Yes Sunny!! :-)

            • Observer

              Seriously. A circus tent would be far more attractive.

            • Semper Phi

              It sure would! I walked by the Big Apple Circus tent at Lincoln Center the other day, and it’s actually fun to look at. As opposed to that oppressive airplane hangar in Clearwater.

            • Poison Ivy

              I walked by that today too! Just home in the Apple for this beautiful fall weekend; heading back South Monday.

            • NOLAGirl

              Couldn’t agree more Obs. It’s so damn ugly…I can’t imagine what people who helped pay for that hunk of junk will be/are thinking.

            • ThetaBara

              Not to mention more appropriate.

          • nottrue

            The Do Not Enter sign is missing two words This Tent

          • Snippy_X

            Is that a fire down there with smoke?

          • noseinabk

            Are those cult planted palm trees? Looks like they are dying and one is leaning towards the door.

            • Sunny Sands

              I believe those have been there awhile, they’re not recent plants. Some people think it looks more tropical to plant palms not straight up, or at least they used to.

            • noseinabk

              I assume this will be the back door? If COS will be routing the whales to the side entrance, its still a stretch to hide just how ugly this structure is.

          • Reality Scamz

            The level of paranoia runs so deep with these people. Or is Davey just running another scam that he is protecting the flock from SP’s?

        • Pepsicat

          He IS truly that paranoid.

      • Sunny Sands

        Those concrete barriers are the type they put along major roadways when doing construction, to keep traffic in the correct lane. The speaker’s podium will likely be just on the other side of that flimsy tent wall. I think you are right, they are to keep an errant car from barreling through the tent and injuring whoever is there. This is also the likeliest place for protestors to congregate. Court St. is State Road 60, a heavily travelled road that crosses the intracoastal waterway to Clearwater Beach.

        • Sidney18511

          Also because they didn’t apply for a permit to shut down streets in the area, they will most likely just use their F-U tech and block off the streets anyway.

          • Sunny Sands

            I was wondering if they would be so bold as to do that.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              of course they would. Miscavige will just pay whatever the fine is on Monday. Why should He care? It’s only Other People’s Money.

          • ThetaBara

            It would be great if they did that and the city came in and shut down the event because of it!

          • Poison Ivy

            I think that’s exactly what they will be using (the “F-U Tech”). Because there will be protesters, I think they’ll assign as many RPF’ers as possible to clog the sidewalks in front of the tent, Sooper Powerz, etc. In addition to hired security. I think it’s a situation ripe for problems.

            • GlibWog

              yesterday I posted this question to late PI, but what about all these ID Badges..? Can you imagine all the Logistics behind that?

              You know damn well if one SP gets in.. One picture gets out.. A sound bite.. HEADS WILL ROLL ..

              They don’t even have a Freakin Date yet.. How much time do they need to make IDs..?
              7-10 or 14 days.. Jesus..

        • ze moo

          Sound barriers to prevent Mark Bunker from recording DMs speech?

          • Sunny Sands

            Maybe. It just occurred to me this week that Mark was a member of the Lisa McPherson Trust, and as such, there is an injunction against him that would limit his activities in Clamwater. I don’t have all the minute details, but I hope he can still do his thing.

          • Once_Born

            Surely, anyone who can source a parabolic microphone can make a pretty good recording through a tent wall – so protesters are likely to be especially unwelcome during events in the tent.

        • Observer

          Gee, it almost seems like Miscavige isn’t planning on being there at all.

          • Poison Ivy

            Hmmmmm……..

            Who will give the Nuremberg Speech?

    • Mark

      With “3 flows of water coming from the ground” that fountain looks wide open to all sorts of touristic misuse if the public are allowed in to Davy’s Little Acre – rather like one in Paris (bottom). They should have gone for the Marcel Duchamp (middle) or ‘Manneken Pis’ (top) looks instead, to symbolise what Miscavige has been doing to $cientology for years:

    • noseinabk

      I wish all the scion’s could get a good look at that puny little fountain and be reminded of all the donations made. Years spent fundraising for ideal morgs and super power buildings and you get a millions spent on tent, a concrete walkway and that fountain.

    • GlibWog

      “They are hanging something.. a sign?”

      Yes and it reads..

      SUNNY SANDS QUIT TAKING PICTURES AND PUTTING THEM ON THE BUNKER BITCH.

  • notclear

    If Ron had an unusual condition where his body was able to produce LSD naturally, it would explain everything.

    • ze moo

      There isn’t much difference between a psychotropic drug user and a schizophrenic. When Lroon was high, his delusions of grandeur were overwhelming.

    • Casabeca

      That is a great creative thought! Hmm…

  • Sherbet

    Nothing gives ME an engram as much as lrh’s phony scientific medical-speak. What a complete ASS the man was. And a sick one, too. A sick, madman ass. That’s my scientific, medical diagnosis of lrh.

    • Mooser

      “And a sick one, too. A sick, madman ass.”

      I don’t know, he seems a pretty typical guy to me. What amazes me is how the people around him could twist Ron’s sickness to their own needs, without a qualm. He was evil, and sick. They are just evil.

  • demitrious

    didn’t LRH die with prescription drugs in his system?

    • Espiando

      And one of our most frequent posters here, Vistaril, honors the medication in LRH’s bloodstream at the time of death.

  • NOLAGirl

    Conversation between me & my mother a few minutes ago:

    Me: Mom, you read Dianetics back in the day, didn’t you?
    Mom: Yes.
    Me: What did you think about it?
    Mom: A LAVISH waste of paper!

    LOL :) Love her.

    • Poison Ivy

      Give her a kiss.
      My Dad picked it up in a bookstore when I was a kid and said something along the lines of, “This is unreadable!” My mom the librarian had requests for Dianetics at her branch and said she’d never have that garbage on her shelves, her patrons would have to find it somewhere else! (YAY for my parents in the ’60’s!)

      • NOLAGirl

        Will send her your love Ivy!! :) Your Mom sounds incredibly kick-ass!! My Mom’s sentiment was pretty much like your Dad’s….. it’s trash. 😉

        • Missionary Kid

          I’ve collected both your parents’ statements under a new category, THINGS SAID ABOUT DIANETICS Great parents.

          • Espiando

            Let’s see if I can add to that list:

            If Dianetics is so thorough about pre-natal engrams, how come Hubbard didn’t tell us which engrams are caused by the most common phrases said by every mother and father in the world, namely “That son of a bitch said he’d pull out” and “Yeah, I washed it, so now will you suck it?” respectively.

            • Missionary Kid

              I can’t stop laughing. Help!

            • Mooser

              This is a family blog! Hmmm, on the other hand, I guess that’s how families get started…

            • ThetaBara

              Speaking of prenatal engrams, shouldn’t everyone really have to be silent around the mother for the entire pregnancy? Or am I missing something here?

        • Poison Ivy

          My Mom passed away in 1984, sadly. But she’s with me every day. She was gorgeous, brilliant, creative, and too kind for this world.

          • NOLAGirl

            You are an amazing, beautiful, clear reflection of all that she was. She must continue to swell with pride at her wonderful daughter. ; )

      • Mooser

        “(YAY for my parents in the ’60’s!)”

        Yay for an awful lot of parents in the 60’s, who tried to improve their communities and country. Then came Reagen, and demented self-concern and the most blatant hypocrisy became our national zeitgeist! And “country” mucus, too.

    • Pepsicat

      My dad said, “I just read Dianetics. What did it say?”

      • NOLAGirl

        LOL I like him already. 😀

  • Walter Mitty

    Rare photo of L. Ron Hubbard as actor.

    • Gabbyone

      I want to see the photo of Ronnie the ballroom dancer.

  • Espiando

    Sorry, Scibots, but I’ve had major wins thanks to Better Living Through Chemistry. I have a variant of Type II Bipolar Disorder that was impossible to treat through drugs until about ten to fifteen years ago. After some trial and error, and waiting for various medications to come along, I’ve found that a combo of Cymbalta and Zyprexa does wonders. This is one major reason Why I Protest. You will take my psych drugs away from me only at gunpoint, Scilons.

    As for booze, my father’s brother drank himself to death, and my father’s cousin, who my family was very close to, died of alcoholic misadventure. The pills give me a great excuse not to booze, not that I’d need much of one.

    And finally, we come to Marty. I’ve been more willing to cut Marty a little more slack than most people here, and I think he’s deserving of it. Yeah, he did the crimes, and he needs to do his amends, but not now. Not yet. Sometime, but not yet. What he’s doing right now is re-running OTVIII through a different lens, and he’s reaching his EP. He’s almost done realizing what he’s not, then he has to figure out what he is. It’s a very painful experience, especially since he’s spent his entire adult life cosseted by L. Ron’s lunatic philosophy. It’s very fortunate that he has a semblance of a support system around him. Mosey, Mike and Christie, even us in a way; we’re all there to help him when he asks. I’m in favor of giving him that little bit of room he needs.

    If you don’t want to do that out of a sense of human kindness, then take the pragmatic approach: Marty’s currently engaged in the highest-stakes game of chess you can imagine. It’s obvious that he’s looking three moves ahead while his opponent is simply reacting to his moves and not thinking at all. Marty’s in the best position to call checkmate on this entire cult scam than anyone. In D&D terms, he’s the fallen paladin taking on the Dwarf Lich, he’s armed with his +4 Sword Of Fuck You, and he’s rolling so many 20s that you think the dice are loaded. Let’s sit back and be the cleric throwing healing spells at him so he can keep it up.

    • Pepsicat

      Agreed.

    • Missionary Kid

      Very apt. I think of him as a freshman in college who has been brought up under a restrictive, twisted and evil cult who is just discovering other philosophies that are more valid.

      The problem is that he’s never taken a philosophy or a comparative religions or a history of philosophy course, so he has no idea of the philosophical underpinnings of the ideas he is exposing himself to.

      As to your own experience with pharmaceuticals, many people suffering from bipolar disorder, depression, and a host of other ills self-medicate with alcohol or other drugs and end up addicted. Perhaps your uncle was handling an underlying problem by using alcohol and became addicted.

      As a result of this, some, note I said some, of the AA community have a prejudice against prescribed drugs because they don’t realize that prescribed drugs are necessary to treat underlying mental or physical conditions once a person is sober. They make the same blanket claims against “drugs” that the Co$ does. There are historical reasons for that attitude, but they have to do with the type of drugs that were prescribed years ago for alcoholics to help them get off alcohol that were equally, if not more, addictive.

      • Espiando

        The only real problem I have with Marty is that he thinks he has an understanding of quantum mechanics because he’s read The Tao Of Physics. Let’s compare and contrast: I learned quantum mechanics from a Nobel winner. Marty learned it from a dumbed-down bestseller. For some reason, I don’t think he can lecture me on the subject. FSM knows that he’ll try, though. I am willing to forgive him that, though. It’s the only way he knows how at this point.

        As for my uncle, he started boozing the moment he got away from home, when he was drafted (read of that what you will). He tried medical dry-outs more than once, but they never took. In a way, he was like Marty: he never had self-control over his life. He compensated for that with alcohol. Much too common a story, I’m afraid.

        • Missionary Kid

          I think there’s a critical analysis of The Tao Of Physics somewhere in the Skeptic.com back issues. If not, there’s plenty of articles that examine attempts to marry belief with science.

          • Straight Diet of Kerbango

            The Skeptics Guide to The Universe podcast addresses this issue frequently. In particular, marrying incorrect ideas about quantum theory with charlatanism.

      • Mooser

        “Very apt. I think of him as a freshman in college who has been brought
        up under a restrictive, twisted and evil cult who is just discovering
        other philosophies that are more valid.”

        Yup, drugs, sex, and rock-n-roll! And socialism! Well, that’s what used to happen, but now they just send ’em to Liberty University or Brigham Young. No point in troubling their minds.

      • Straight Diet of Kerbango

        I’d estimate about 50% of AA groups. If nothing else, I just wish they had an understanding of how hard it is to KEEP people reliably taking certain medications such mood stabilizers. Sort of the opposite of becoming ‘addicted’ to medications.

        • Missionary Kid

          Exactly. When I worked in alcoholism, there was an aide, a recovering alcoholic and staunch AA member, who tried to convince a person in a medical detox facility that they should discontinue their dilantin that was taken for seizures. Luckily, she was stopped before damage was done, and convinced to change her ways.

          • Straight Diet of Kerbango

            Oh god, during the withdrawal phase? As if dilantin is a fun medication to be on and somehow satisfies the motivations for continued use of alcohol.

            • Missionary Kid

              AA is a very diverse community. Unfortunately, it has its share of true believers, dry drunks, nuts, scattered in with some very wonderful people.

    • Snippy_X

      9001 upvotes for this thread. I agree with you all 100% on your models of brain dysfunction, genetic components for it and booze, psych drug assists, the Tao of fuzzy feel good analogies between the electron and human consciousness, Marty’s incredible journey, and especially for cutting Marty some damn slack.

    • GSioux

      Don Jolly’s description of Mark Rathbun is my bro’ almost to a “T”. Except my bro’ is still “in”, as far as I know. Sometimes it is almost impossible to “stay the middle ground” – to care and support. Thanks for your blog, Espiando! Just as Mark has exuded a destructive force against people, so has my brother. Look at Mark’s life history – it is wonderful he wasn’t totally crushed. Yes, he will have to seek forgiveness at some point. Most importantly, he will need to forgive himself. I wish both for him and your support is great. In the spirit of Buddhists, may Mark and my bro’ find peace – they deserve to have that.

    • GlibWog

      Espi I am having same thoughts about Marty. I just wanted to tell you.

    • Casabeca

      I agree with you on Marty, and the compassion with which you view him reveals your heart too.

  • Missionary Kid

    ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT THE TOMKAT PERFORMANCE

    Saturday evening is the official Bunker night.

    Dien Sofley emailed me and said that Saturday, November 16th would be fine. I’ve emalled Tony with the details.

    • ThetaBara

      Awesome! Will be in touch.

    • Dog Saluter

      Got mine, see you all Sat night!

      • ThetaBara

        Got mine too! Looking forward to meeting you!

      • Missionary Kid

        Good. The more the merrier.

    • Missionary Kid

      Make sure you check Saturday night. I got routed to the Thursday night performance, for some reason.

    • ThetaBara

      FWIW: I am coming in from out of town, will not have a car and do not know my way around very well. If anyone can help me out with a ride from Union station to the theater, I would be grateful, and I’ll buy you a drink. I am arriving there around 4pm. Otherwise I can taxi it but I thought I’d ask. I can be contacted at theda.bara.967 -at- facebook.com (or through that profile. Note the d). Too bad DQ does not support private messages.

      • Missionary Kid

        Hi, I contacted you directly, but for everyone else, apparently, there’s a subway station both close to Union station and the theater.

        Correct me if I’m wrong. I haven’t lived in L.A. for a long time.

    • Sibs

      I just looked up directions to the theatre and Google Maps says it is almost across the street from that Titanic-looking Sea Org building.

      • Reality Scamz

        Big Blue I think you are referring to a former hospital..

        • Sibs

          No, it’s the one on the corner of Ivar and Hollywood that Suppressive Tomato posted about yesterday. And Observer said it reminded her of the Titanic.

          • Reality Scamz

            Oh the HGB building home of RTC

            • Sibs

              So that’s what that is!

              I just made plans with one of my friends and we’ll be driving by Big Blue. Probably don’t need to ask him to take pictures though because everyone knows what that joint looks like.

            • Reality Scamz

              If in their vicinity please be careful they will sometimes try to agitate you. Bullbaiting (yelling at you), getting in your face, trying to bump you. All to try to get you to react please consider either a small video cam or go with a group.

              They will try these tactics and have someone filming the whole incident then call the police. Just my advice

        • Sibs

          No, it’s the one on the corner of Ivar and Hollywood that Suppressive Tomato posted about yesterday. And Observer said it reminded her of the Titanic. (here’s my own screenshot since I’m on Google Maps anyway)

      • Missionary Kid

        Yup, we’ll be in the belly of the beast.

  • Spackle Motion

    I wonder what LRH would have thought of these.

  • Observer

    “Rathbun has been expanding his horizons, reading voluminously and sussing out Hubbard’s potential influences and interlocutors, a controversial practice even among Independents, many of whom still believe the founder is peerless.”

    The founder is peerless–a peerless horse’s ass. And good for Marty!

    • 3feetback-of-COS

      Hubbard sure enough smashed his name into history — but in the worst way.

    • notclear

      The flickr page is great — really nice to see them all together.

      By the way, I wish somebody with a server would host a browseable scientology shoop gallery including stuff from here, WWP, ESMB, et cetra. The impulse to shoop scientology comes from a really positive place in the human soul.

  • 3feetback-of-COS

    I think Marty has remorse for his past deed, but for whatever reason, has not been public about it, but I think he will soon. He does have a lot on his plate now, and perhaps has not fully formulated his expression of remorse.

    Considering the awakening from the trance he has recently experienced, how can he not have remorse?

    It takes a ton of guts and courage and self-esteem to confront the fact that you have been terribly wrong and wasted 5, 10, 30 years or more of one’s life.

    • Mooser

      “It takes a ton of guts and courage and self-esteem to confront the fact
      that you have been terribly wrong and wasted 5, 10, 30 years or more of
      one’s life.”

      It could also be a real sock-in-the-gut to realize how much liability you have, personally, once you realize the planet isn’t going to get cleared.

      • 3feetback-of-COS

        except if you realize that planet-clearing was part of the sham.

  • subsilentio

    Incidentally, other than psych drugs, one bar to joining the Sea Org is ever having taken LSD. LRH had good cause to fear that particular drug, as it is downright toxic to an authoritarian mindset.

  • http://www.rediscoverscientology.com/blogs/joe-howard.html Joe Howard

    I was told that LRH gave up smoking some time before his death. DM, on the other hand, used to put handwritten notes to himself on his desk admonishing him not to smoke. He never stopped for as long as I knew him, though that was nearly 10 years ago now since I blew. (And it has been a great 10 years. I guess I have to thank him for making things so miserable that I had no choice but to scram. Thanks, Dave.)

    • 3feetback-of-COS

      Old yiddish joke:

      A guy sees his friend standing and banging his head against a wall.
      “Why do you keep knocking your head against the wall?”
      “It feels so good when I stop”

      • Mooser

        Clam complaining about Sea org: “The food tastes like poison, and the portions are SO SMALL!!

        The “Pinsk or Minsk” joke is also relevant, as is the one about telling a Scientologist about the sun exploding in 350 million years. ‘Okay, but what I want to know is, is it good for Scientology, or bad for Scientology?’
        I have found in my life that there are very few things which cannot be explained with these classic Jewish jokes. Except my wife, of course.

  • DamOTclese2

    Mind-Altering

    No. The dope that Hubbard chugged wasn’t “Mind-Altering,” it was Mind Fucking. For over 20 years that insane conman never drew a sober breath, the sheer amounts of dope he swilled exceeded “mind-altering” and drove right on past “mind damaging” and in to “mind fucking” long before he started screaming about being infested with invisible murdered space alien fragments get ’em offa me! get ’em offa me!

    • Espiando

      Don’t soft-soap things, Fred. Tell us what you really think of him.

    • Mooser

      Dam, if I’m not mistaken, the state you are referring to (“Mind Fucking”) is known as “toxic psychosis”
      Stimulants (cocaine, amphetamines) produce it fast, and alcohol, barbiturates and diazepams can also do it, but maybe not quite as fast, but a very thorough job by the time they’re done.
      And ‘things’ on your skin? Oh, that’s a classic!

      • Straight Diet of Kerbango

        Wait. I think this is a groundbreaking discovery. The origin of the theory of infestation with “thetans” may have come from Hubbard experiencing formication (sensation of bugs crawling), either stimulant-induced or barbiturate withdrawal.

        • ze moo

          There was sci fi book about people infested with several types of alien brain suckers in the mid 60’s by a well known author. I suspect Lroon read that book, got messed up and when sobering up, ‘cognated’ the Xenu stuff.

          Lroon is starting to look like Ray Milland in the Lost Weekend.

          • Robert Eckert

            “The Brains of Earth” by Jack Vance. I read that when I was like 10, and was really creeped out by it. All humans, it turns out, have a creature called the nopal riding on our necks and controlling our brains, although mostly all they want to alter is our ability to see nopals. An alien race who have finally managed to purge themselves of nopals (which requires a session of torture that the nopal can’t stand, which has to be redone periodically when the nopal come back) come to Earth to make us undertake the grand purge too, since the excess nopal that breed here float through space to their planet and they can’t ever be rid of them until Earth, or “Nopalgarth” as they call it, is cleansed. However, it turns out that once you are free of the nopal, you just have another nastier creature, the multi-tentacled gher, latching on to you.

  • Mooser

    ““Rathbun has been expanding his horizons, reading voluminously and
    sussing out Hubbard’s potential influences and interlocutors, a
    controversial practice even among Independents, many of whom still
    believe the founder is peerless.”

    Gosh, he should try thinking. Sometimes that helps, too!

    • GSioux

      Leaving a cult relationship/life is like stepping into an abyss – like being plopped unexpectedly onto another planet. While it may be possible to keep a certain degree of cleanliness and to eat enough to survive, there are many cylinders which simply cannot fire – one runs on empty. Compassion and empathy is needed here.

  • L. Wrong Hubturd

    Off topic, but I felt compelled to share:

    http://youtu.be/aZMbTFNp4wI

  • N. Graham

    Elron’s whole timeline and experiences with drugs in the 1950s and 1960s really helped him take some backward steps. Because his heyday was when psychiatry was having its worst years-lobotomy, electroshock, he was able to manipulate people to hate psychiatry using these lobotomy and electroshock examples. Because he was so dogmatic and didn’t want to lose his grip on $cientology like he did with Dianutty, he insisted nothing he wrote about should be altered in any way. He never was able to get through his own mind blocks to acknowledge that the mental health field turned 180 degrees away from where it had been once been and beneficial drugs were now helping people in ways that weren’t available when he was “curing his blindness.” I believe he was aware of what was happening in the pharmaceutical world, since he took Vistaril.

    • joan nieman

      Very good point N. Graham. Somehow I don’t think the cult will ‘get it’ though.

  • DuckBenway

    Thank you, Tony & Jon.

    For anyone interested, I contribute the following notes:

    With the assistance of Caroline Letkeman & Gerry Armstrong, I have tracked down all the LRH/cult documents/books/tapes, etc., where LRH literally advocates and promotes the use of the amphetamine, Benzedrine.
    ________________________________________
    From the RED VOLUMES* – Volume 1 – page 34:

    But the primary technique consists of stimulants. The best stimulant is Benzedrine. In its absence an overdose of coffee will do.
    ________________________________________
    From the RED VOLUMES – Volume 1 – page 67:

    Benzedrine often helps a case run. Benzedrine can be administered at the rate of 5 mg per day given at the beginning of each six hour session with the first dose of B1. If administration of Benzedrine is begun, however, it must be maintained throughout the whole of the intensive process. Skipping a day, it has been noted conditionally, sometimes inhibits the release of anaten. Which is to say that when Benzedrine is administered on Monday, on Tuesday, when none is administered, the case appears to be a little more difficult to run in that engrams do not as readily release and, if Benzedrine is still omitted, Wednesday may discover the engrams to be much more resistive. While this is based on a short series, there is enough evidence to warrant this caution.
    ________________________________________
    From the RED VOLUMES – Volume 1 – page 547: Subject Index

    *Also published as “The Technical Bulletins Of Dianetics And Scientology”
    ________________________________________
    Science of Survival, book 2 chapter 17 page 464:

    If one must do something by way of drugs for these people, better effects, according to medical observation, can be achieved by the administration of stimulants such as Benzedrine.
    ________________________________________
    Dianetics: The Evolution Of A Science – page 101:

    We wake the patient up with drugs – Benzedrine, caffeine, better ones will be invented.
    ________________________________________
    Tape Recording 5009C29 – GUK & Freewheeling:

    A lecture given on 15 June 1950

    Also, from here: — L. Ron Hubbard – Lecture 15 June 1950: Case Factors

    If you have to grab hold of anything, grab hold of Benzedrine, if you feel the energy skipping. Benzedrine doesn’t shut down the analyzer. Just what it does we are not quite sure, but it seems to have the opposite effect, and if you are a very smart auditor you will not throw away the advantages of the power of suggestion completely.

    Benzedrine and other commercial stimulants have been used with some success, particularly on psychotic patients.

    After a few sessions with Benzedrine the current stock of Q is exhausted and the work has been observed to deteriorate either until a higher dosage was administered — and there is a close limit to that — or until more Q was manufactured.
    ________________________________________
    From here – — L. Ron Hubbard – Lecture 10 November 1950: Handling Psychotics:

    It is amazing what a stimulant will do to return accessibility to lots of cases. A psychotic who could not even talk to you will suddenly be in communication after Benzedrine starts taking effect. Now, what is said to him does not make new engrams nor new locks. He is accessible and you can talk to him.
    ________________________________________
    Lecture: Auditing Demonstration:

    Hubbard tells his preclear that he uses narcosynthesis occasionally.

    LRH: Well, the whole case has got a bouncer activating in it. But that’s all right. A little Benzedrine will overcome the bouncer.

    PC: Oh, fine, I don’t care. Listen, I meant to ask you, in this therapy if you know what you’re doing and you don’t use positive suggestion, do you ever use narcosynthesis when you have a tough case?

    LRH: Occasionally.

    PC: I don’t care what you do with me. I trust you. I’ll let you do anything you want to break this thing.

    LRH: Oh, I will.

    PC: Okay. I just wanted to tell you.

    LRH: Don’t worry, I will. I’ll break the case.
    ________________________________________

  • notclear

    Is there a personality disorder where a relative dolt is compelled to recommend bewildering or esoteric texts to others for the sole purpose of appearing erudite?

    If not, I think I have just identified a new thing I’m calling Rathbun disorder:)

    • Cat Daddy

      sigh

      • notclear

        Actually, I was just trying to see what handle Rathbun was using here. PS: That post was funnier before you edited it.

  • Verve

    I’ve seen and read some bizarre stuff, but the crap Hubbard spews, and did, is beyond… something. I can’t even think of a good category for it. I’ll let my buddy do it-

    http://thatmagicalnight.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/wtf-monkey.jpg

  • GlibWog

    AAAAAAAAAh Speed..

    I was on Speed in the early 70s. Back then they were called diet pills. Eskatrol for over 2 years. Stayed up for days and was in ” Another World.”

    Coincidently I was going to college studying Anatomy and Kinesiology and the Assigned book was Dianetics . So the Author ( ugh) and I were both speed freaks. ha..

    Three things I discovered along the way..

    1. I hated Dianetics

    2. Two years of studying Anatomy and Kinesiology by this Wacked out Scn professor because he used the Book Dianetics as his course study.. I could NOT transfer the credits to another College..errrrrrrrrrgh

    3. Within those 2 years of taking amphetamines went to the Dentist and Low and behold I had 22 cavities in my once beautiful mouth .. ( apparently I was to fucked up to care)

    It cost be thousands of dollars over the years to get my Teeth up to Par again..

    Thus.. Hubbard’s Teeth could have been mine.. ( I just threw up in my mouth..)

    • Sunny Sands

      Astonishing that a secular school would assign dianutty, .

      • GlibWog

        OMG Shudder Shudder is right Sunny.. Good Lord..

        I also took Black History taught by A Black Activist that I know now he was probably a Black Panther..REVOLUTION..

        Awww the early 70s.. Good Times Had by all..

      • Captain Howdy

        Back in the late 60’s, 70’s, early 80’s lots of universities, especially state and community colleges had bullshit parapsychology departments. The only one I’m aware of today is at Virgina tech or some other Virgina school.

  • GlibWog

    Excellent article on Marty Tony.

    PS .. MR Jolly I am betting everything that it was a gun.. Yep.

    • 3feetback-of-COS

      and possibly a tape recorder too. Marty knows to cover his ass.

      • GlibWog

        You bet your sweet ass it was taped..

  • Reality Scamz

    I know these stories are recent like Tony’s interview but I just love centralized youtube like channels that keep scientology stories in a centralized area. I’m guessing Toxic Demon is an Anon who performs just such a service.
    If anyone is interested here is a link to his channel that I just found.
    http://www.dailymotion.com/ToxicDemon#video=x16ff21

  • Reality Scamz

    This may be old to it is from today’s posts on Mike Rinder’s site.
    As of this last week there are only about 100 people left to get through their GAG II tips. That means about 900 OOTs are being kept from going home. Disgusting.

    They say these people have been there for 6 months now.

    • Sunny Sands

      It’s almost unbelievable that people could put their lives indefinitely on hold like this. They’ll probably never be suckered into coming to Flag again.

      • Miss Tia

        If they ever get OUT!

        • SignsOfSuccess

          Don’t worry, all of them are full-time staff (Rinder knows it very well) at heir local org and all of heir expenses are paid by it. Everyone is more than happy to stay a little longer at Flag.
          So, there is really no reason for you guys to be so worried about the fate of those 1000.
          I hope that this info will make you sleep better.

          • Reality Scamz

            I disagree they are staff who are often volunteers. People are losing their jobs banks accounts are being drained daily. Flag pays no salary to them their Orgs will be charged.

            • Miss Tia

              SignsofFailure cannot be reasoned with.

            • tetloj

              SoS is a cry for help

            • Miss Tia

              Very true!

            • SignsOfSuccess

              It was mandatory for every orgs to send only full time tech staff. And as I said, all of their expenses are paid by their orgs.

            • Reality Scamz

              If they are almost all volunteers just who exactly is paying them. Flag is known across the World as the biggest ripoff Org on the Planet even in scientology.
              So one last response I will categorically disregard any further posting by you have fun.
              I call Troll

            • StatusLevelUP

              “all of their expenses are paid by their orgs”

              Actually, this might make sense. $1000/night for a cot in a room with 5 other people. $18 cheezeburgers for lunch daily. $25 deluxe pepperoni pizza for dinner. $500/hour auditing. The org will owe them major bank!! Good thinking, Miscavige! Rape those Orgs! That’s the only thing you’re good at!

            • Jo

              SOS, is your avatar a parrot?

            • Espiando

              More like what you see when you take too many pinks and greys. Or listen too long to someone who’s taken too many pinks and greys.

            • Jo

              Is it a parrot? That would be funny and kinda of strange.

            • Observer

              It looks to me like an underwater scene photographed with a fisheye lens.

            • Jo

              Ok, I can’t make out what it is.

            • Once_Born

              An astronomical image? Hubble space telescope, perhaps?

            • Captain Howdy

              If what you are saying is true, that’s great. It will cause the cult to collapse that much sooner. The more draconian D,M gets the closer doomsday looms.

          • StatusLevelUP

            I hope they get to the beach and enjoy some local culture!

            • Miss Tia

              They won’t be allowed on the beacon and SignsOfFailure promotes their propaganda.

            • SignsOfSuccess

              Of course they do (at least the ones that have already finished their training)

            • StatusLevelUP

              Great – they should go out clubbing at the Freaki Tiki!!! How fun!

          • Robert Eckert

            As you know very well, the orgs are not able to pay their own electric bills let alone these bills imposed on them by Flag.

            • Reality Scamz

              Robert I am no one special however isn’t this fellow SignsOFSuccess another Troll.
              Just like yesterday trying to stir the pot just a different screen name they are using?

            • Robert Eckert

              Not even a different screen name.

            • Captain Howdy

              The occasional troll, scilon or otherwise, is sometimes a good thing. it helps break up the monotony of everyone agreeing with each other and the similar repetitious comments.

            • tetloj

              Even if posters are trolls it is worthwhile correcting factual inaccuracies for the record.

            • Reality Scamz

              I agree however when a troll is just here to derail then I say call them out and not take anymore bait.

            • Robert Eckert

              Oh, you must be thinking of deathtoallpoliticians who had a run-in with you and me and Banana. I don’t think SOS has anything to do with him: SOS was here, under the same name, a couple threads ago just before Eugene K (also a very different personality, and sincere in his semi-scilon-ness).

    • Miss Tia

      How/why can they stay there that long? Are they CO$ staff where they’re from?? If not, there’s no way they could have kept their regular jobs, etc. That’s horrible!! REVOLT PEOPLES!!!!!

      • Reality Scamz

        No there was another report of a man who told his boss he would be gone 4-6 weeks. The employer even sent him a letter to either get back or you will have No job. He took the letter to scientology at flag and found no success.
        So now he has lost his job and racked up a bill for food and lodging with no way to pay for it. scientology just does not care about anybody but making money and destroying lives.

        • Miss Tia

          WHOA! That guy still doesn’t get it?! I mean, yeah, I guess I understand, he’s that far ‘in’ but you lose your job, your racking up bills, you have zero income, there is NO end in site to your ‘confinement’, clue phone is ringing mighty loud!!!

          I wouldn’t be surprised if CO$ then try to convert the people who’ve lost their jobs, etc into Sea Org members. SMDH

          • Reality Scamz

            To them for one they lose their eternity along with the only life many of them have ever known. Family, business as well as other personal contacts gone as well being shunned. They are also trained that they, “Pulled It In”, it’s their fault.
            As for scientology attempting to recruit them for the Sea Org that has happened countless times.

            • Casabeca

              This whole story is heartbreaking!

            • Reality Scamz

              The worst part is your average scientologist is not a bad person they have just gotten lost in the sick twisted world of scientology.

              I have said this before however there are some who it take 8-10 years after the cult to fully decompress.

            • Miss Tia

              I know, the vast majority are good people, very good people whom $cientology have taken advantage of, used, abused (I consider mental abuse abuse also), and permeated every aspect of their lives. That is a good decompression idea too, it really does take years to fully decompress or gain a measure/handle on ‘reality’ and ‘normal’ and I know that from an abused childhood perspective. Once you realize everything you knew was basically a lie—-I thought every kid had a childhood like mine, why wouldn’t i? It really throws you for a loop.

            • Kitty lover

              You know, this is what makes my blood boil. From what I have read, and I have read a lot over the last year and a half, this preying on good people makes me so sick.

              I can’t stand when religion, any religion or belief system, scares the shit out of people by threatening their salvation.

              But the COS takes this to a whole different level. You take, for the most part, people who want to believe in something, who want to do good and that is just twisted and abused by this evil cult.

            • Miss Tia

              EXACTLY—-preying on good people makes me so sick too!!

            • SignsOfSuccess

              They have a nuke as well.

            • Reality Scamz

              Yes I have been informed you are a Troll either OSA or VM (volunteer minister). Please come back around when you wake up and have a nice day.
              That is all

            • StatusLevelUP

              Cool story, bro

            • Dee Fogger

              (in honor of caturday)

              At first I thought you might be a real believer. Then I thought that you might be an OT8isGreat type sock trolling the comments but decided against that because you simply aren’t amusing enough. So, I’m going with simple troll and will no longer feed you.

            • Miss Tia

              It is!! I just wanna go there and try to help them in some way!!

            • TXCowgirl

              Let’s storm the Bastille!

            • Reality Scamz

              That would not be a good idea downtown Clearwater has literally hundreds of high end CCT cameras. scientology has spent over $100,000 dollars on facial recognition software.

              As you drive past the Fort Harrison going north or south bond a picture is taken of every plate.

              They also have a sophisticated radio system that OSA uses daily.

              They are in a constant state of fear that is drilled daily. The list goes on and on when scientology soon collapses there is not telling what might occur.
              Also scientology literally owns the Clearwater PD

              There is also supposed to be a small arsenal of weapons it’s unbelievable.

            • TXCowgirl

              It was just a Saturday afternoon fantasy.

            • Miss Tia

              I know that that is ingrained within them, some of them must have doubts and I know that that too is ingrained to be considered a sin/crime. That one person has LOST their business (well their job) and I doubt CO$ would help them find another. :( I feel so bad for those people.

        • noseinabk

          How will these people pay to get home? You would think that most have already begged and borrowed from family.

      • AsthmaticDwarf

        The people being referred to in this thread are supported by their local orgs. Their job back home is Staff, with $cientology org, in their locale. This extravaganza of Demented Degraded Deluded Deranged Diminutive Diffident Delusional Davey McSavage‘s is costing local organizations all over planet Teegeack, huge portions of their operational budgets.

        • Reality Scamz

          Most of the staff are now volunteers there are lost jobs and depleted banks accounts galore. Oh plus never mind seeing the Wife or Husband kids etc almost 6 months in..
          Yes the local orgs are getting billed however with volunteer staff paying the locals elec, phone, gas bills etc this is destroying people.

        • Miss Tia

          Aren’t some of them, as has been mentioned, have other jobs though? And yes, if the local orgs are going to be billed for this, it’s probably gonna eat up MOST of their budgets—knowing how the MAIN ‘org’ likes to bilk places. So then these local orgs will suffer, which okay I know we don’t care about their finances, but we do care about the people in those orgs. What will they be subjected to for not being to pony up the bills, ya know?? More regging by them of the locals. SMDH

    • TXCowgirl

      Are these 900-ish OOTs (??) allowed to leave the Ft. Harrison for lunch or a movie, or are they required to remain strictly on campus?

      • Robert Eckert

        Where would they get money for lunch or a movie?

        • TXCowgirl

          On point, Mr. Eckert.

        • TXCowgirl

          But if they did hide a couple of dollars in their shoes, would they be allowed out?

          • Reality Scamz

            I would have to say No they are restricted to base. OOT people have it easier than say Sea Org yet they are looked down upon. Also Flag has such a strong OSA presence it would not be wise in their minds to leave the realm.

  • TheCommodeDoor

    Marty Rathbun the Martin Luther of Scientology? I have my doubts about the comparison. If anything, he reminds me more of Albert Speer. And like Speer, he remains a deeply conflicted man.

    Speer participated in a (second) failed assassination attempt on Hitler, yet felt compelled to visit him one last time in the bunker (before fleeing west). Marty did do all those things while in power. His career was only interrupted when the system he helped establish turn on him. Otherwise would he have had a sudden revelation that what he was doing was wrong – or would he have continued? Speer did twenty years in Spandau after the war. He was the only Nazi to plead “guilty”. During and after that time he wrote two books. In the second, he lamented that he would be remembered for his involvement with the Nazi party as opposed to his work as an architect. It appears the Rathbun would now like to be viewed as a philosopher. I personally think he has a very interesting perspective. However, he is a philosopher that comes with a lot of baggage.

    • Cat Daddy

      Didn’t the Nazi comparison result in a Perma-Ban ?

  • Straight Diet of Kerbango

    Hello Bunker-

    I’ve been posting to the board for a few days and would like to formally introduce myself. I’m a Never-in. A
    bit about my interest in $cientology. I have always had an interest in obsession with cults, odd subcultures,
    strange religious belief systems, quack medicine, charlatanism. Fundamentalist branches of Mormonism, Moonies, Juche, Rajneeshee, Harold Camping, moon landing denialism, Uri Geller to name a few. I consider myself to be a philosophical skeptic. $cientology is the most fascinating, odd, dangerous, rage-inducing, lulz-producing group of them all. Choosing psychiatry as my profession made it all the more interesting and personal. I learned that I am a member of an evil galactic race of Psychs, trillions of
    years old or some such. I’m not sure at what point exactly I started embodying the evil Psych alien – conception, birth, the psychiatry rotation in medical school, during training in my first
    specialty, the first day of my training after switching into psychiatry, completion of residency, or board certification? The real time developments, awesome comments, hilarious shoops on this board are highly addicting and actually causing some functional impairment in my life. John P., you are my hero. If I could only be that prolific . . .

    My only direct contact with $cientology was wandering into a church next to my college campus with a few friends and goofing on the Oxford Capacity Analysis. “Oxford”–pffft. I also held the cans and was truly blown away when they asked me to think of something stressful (upcoming test) and my skin conductance momentarily increased making the needle on the e-meter shift. For a lark, I bought a Study Tech book. I found it to be . . . ‘insipid.’ (Did I word clear that correctly?) Oh yeah, I have been through the Industry of Death exhibit. Word of advise to the exhibit designers. Clean up your copy, fix the typos, ease up on the conspiracy theory “connections” chart, and stop talking about Hitler. You will be able to “comm” your “intention” with more “wins” as a result.

    I was a little reluctant to post as it may serve to confirm that this board is controlled, funded and populated by
    Psychs. In reality, when I try to discuss $cientology with my colleagues, they quickly get a glazed look in their
    eyes. They tell me I am odd for my interest this cult. Most couldn’t be bothered to open up a book about $cientology. They have never heard of Narconon. $cientology has no significant day to day impact on our profession or the pharmaceutical industry. Not even an afterthought. Only if you are politically active (a tiny minority of psychiatrists) have you noticed some irritating legislative efforts from CCHR. Likewise, I am pretty sure Psychs have no day to day impact on the $cientology racket.

    After I make sure I have enough money in my bank account I do plan to DONATE, DONATE, DONATE!! to the Bunker.

    • 3feetback-of-COS

      Welcome to the bunker, Dr. Kerbango!! its good to hear what an insignificance the Scourge of Scientology is having on you baddies!

    • Observer

      Welcome! Any chance I could get on the Psych payroll? Big Pharma keeps stiffing me on my per-post stipend.

      • Straight Diet of Kerbango

        Unfortunately it is going to take a number of years before I get my loans payed off. Once that’s done, I’ll start building a fund.

      • Mark

        Sorry it’s a bit late this month, Obs. Thought this’d be quicker than sending it by snail-mail:

        • Observer

          Woo-hoo!

    • edge

      Welcome! You’ll find this is one of the most addicting blogs on the interwebs, full of smarts, snark, and amazing stories. I am relieved that Scientology hasn’t sniffed out and destroyed the psychiatry funding machine. To hear David Miscavige tell it, their efforts were the equivalent of a smart bomb made with HGH.

      But it isn’t all about Scientology’s insignificant impact on psychiatry. Did you know L Ron Hubbard was a musician? And that as a companion to Battlefield Earth he composed an album titled Space Jazz?

      • Straight Diet of Kerbango

        I celebrate the guy’s entire catalog. For my money, I don’t know if it gets any better than The Road to Freedom.

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      Yipee! An evil psych!

      Hey Dave! See what we did there?
      The SP’s are forming their own burning man festival.
      And you da man!

      • Miss Tia

        Mental visual association a la Miss Tia: Burning man festival mention, “…you da man”, Scarecrow from the Wizard of Oz with Dave’s face on fire in that scene from the movie and then singing ‘If I only had a brain soul’….

        He is indeed a straw man….the ultimate bogey man and evil entity who will consume your soul with nary a second glance or care or thought……

      • Observer

        That made me think of shooping, and the Burning Man from this year’s festival could not have been more appropriate if they’d done it on purpose.

        NOTE: this is not advocating violence against anyone. It is a representation of the time-honored custom of burning effigies.

    • Sherbet

      “They tell me I am odd for my interest this cult.” Odd? Why, yes, we are odd. We are united in our oddness. We can’t get enough of this cult.

    • Miss Tia

      Welcome!!!

    • aquaclara

      Ok, the Psych comment made me laugh! Welcome!

    • tetloj

      A resident evil psych! Anyone from big pharma wanna ‘out’ themselves out there?

  • Mark

    “ammonium chloride and a host of other stimulants are more productive of results and hardly less severe on the anatomy”

    What was the ignorant fool wittering on about? About the only regular medical use for ammonium chloride is as an expectorant – to make you bring up more phlegm. Like most expectorants, in big enough doses ammonium chloride acts as an emetic – or makes you vomit. So was Tublard addicted to cough-mixture, or just into puke-games? Yuck either way.

    • 3feetback-of-COS

      maybe that was the ‘research’? divining patterns in it? ewwwwww

      • Mark

        Oh god now you have made me feel ill – vomitomancy!

        • 3feetback-of-COS

          thats how to get rid of internal body thetans!

    • Straight Diet of Kerbango

      That’s my favorite part of this post. I also like the idea that also like the idea that the reason we think that alcohol helps “forget it all” and “have a good time” was because some caveman “decreed” it. And not because it does make people “forget it all” and “have a good time.”

      • 3feetback-of-COS

        one of his favorite techniques I call TSF — Theory Stated as Fact. He would pull some fantasy out of the air and state it with certainty and authority. Pretty soon his adherents would just accept whatever he said as gospel truth.

      • Mark

        I think Patsy from Absolutely Fabulous put it perfectly: “Darling, if you want to talk bollocks and discover the meaning of life, you’re better off just downing a bottle of whisky. At least that way you’re unconscious by the time you start to take yourself seriously.”

        • ze moo

          Patsy and Edina are two of my favorite philosophers.

    • grundoon

      Maybe the pretentious old fraud got it mixed up with ammonium carbonate.

      • Mark

        So he was recommending asphyxiating yourself with ammonia fumes? Good grief.

        • grundoon

          Just a sniff wakes you right up.

  • J. Swift

    Among it’s many and wretched works of pseudoscience, the Cult of Scientology wrote a booklet that takes itself so seriously that it comes across as comical to the outsider.

    Indeed, one wonders if the author of Ron the Philosopher was using nitrous oxide in order to produce this particular Paean to Hubbard. The booklet is online at a Cult website: http://www.ronthephilosopher.org/phlspher/page04.htm

    The Cult of Scientology opens the booklet by citing the Victorian era philosopher Herbert Spencer (1820-1903) in order to establish it’s argument that Scientology is a science.

    Spencer’s 1850ish argument was that Philosophy served to summate and unify the results of science.

    This appealed to Hubbard as he could be a “Philosopher” and therefore outrank all of those stupid scientists and other pointy-headed academics in their ivory towers. These people were to blame, after all, for not only rejecting Dianetics, but actually criticizing it in the mad dog press.

    One striking example of the Cult’s notion of what “Science” is comes in the pages of “Ron the Philosopher: when we read of an experiment Hubbard performed by blowing cigarette smoke at cells:

    [quote][b]”How Ron actually arrived at survive is a fairly monumental story, but particularly involves a pivotal sequence of 1937 cytological experiments wherein he was able to demonstrate a cellularly inherited response to toxic substances. That is, having cultured a strain of bacterial cells, the culture was exposed to jets of steam, which affected the cells not at all. Next, applying jets of inherently toxic cigarette smoke, he keenly observed the culture both reacting and retreating from the threat. After continued ‘taunting’ with smoke, he then substituted steam to observe the cells now misidentifying the steam as toxic and similarly retreating. Finally, culturing second and third generations of cells from the first, he found that when these later generation cells were exposed to steam, they likewise misidentified the steam for toxic smoke, and retreated in the name of survival.”[/b][/quote]
    ref: http://www.ronthephilosopher.org/phlspher/page06.htm

    The results of Hubbard’s Nobel-Prize-worthy cigarette smoke experiment seemed to have been lost on Dr. Hubbard. While the cells had the good sense to retreat from inherently toxic cigarette smoke, Dr. Hubbard smoked 100 to 120 cigarettes per day. Later, Hubbard would famously announce that cigarettes “ran” radiation out of the body. We may alternately conclude, therefore, that the cells in LRH’s experiment were not running away from toxic cigarette smoke, but were rather reacting to the radiation being run out them.

    • J. Swift

      In Ron the Philosopher, the Cult of Scientology makes a big deal out of Hubbard’s “Dental Death.” Alternately, however, Hubbard’s claim that he was dead for eight minutes without any form of resuscitation also allows for the hypothesis that he suffered brain damage during this period. This brain damage hypothesis could be used to explain his apparent derangement.

      Hubbard himself made a big deal out of his Dental Reverie:

      “It began with an operation—I took gas as an anesthetic and while under the influence of it my heart must have stopped beating, as in my terror I knew I was slipping through the Curtain and into the land of shades. It was like sliding helter-skelter down into a vortex of scarlet and it was knowing that one was dying and that the process of dying was far from pleasant.

      For a long time after I knew that ‘Death is eight inches below life.’

      It was terrible work, climbing up out of the cone again, for something did not want to let me back through the wall, and then, when I willed my going, I determined it against all opposition.

      And something began to cry out, ‘Don’t let him know!” and then fainter, “Don’t let him know.’

      Though badly shaken I was quite rational when I was restored. The people around me looked frightened—more frightened than I. I was not thinking about what I had been through nearly so much as what I knew. I had not yet fully returned to life. I was still in contact with something. And in that state I remained for some days, all the while puzzling over what I knew. It was clear that if I could but remember I would have the secret of life. This in itself was enough to drive one mad, so illusive was that just-beyond-reach information. And then one morning, just as I awoke, it came to me. I climbed out of my tall ship’s bunk and made my way to my typewriter. I began to hammer out that secret and when I had written ten thousand words, then I knew even more clearly. I destroyed the ten thousand and began to write again…”

      ref: http://www.ronthephilosopher.org/phlspher/page08.htm

      ******
      Read poetically, Mr. Hubbard’s death experience in 1938 can be seen as prophecy of Scientology in 2013 under David Miscavige:

      It was like sliding helter-skelter down into a vortex of scarlet and it was knowing that one was dying and that the process of dying was far from pleasant.

      • Observer

        J&D-ing is redundant when it comes to Hubbard. No one can make a bigger joke of him than he did himself.

        • J. Swift

          Obs, what you are saying is correct. However, when the Cult itself furnishes critics the specific details it is just amazing to see.

          Danny Sherman likely wrote the material I quoted. I say this because Danny has this characteristic way of injecting a sense of amazement and awe into Hubbard’s work.

          This shows just how anti-intellectual and anti-scientific Sherman really is as the Cult’s lead writer.

          In any case, Sherman only has one reader he needs to please. David Miscavige eats Danny Sherman’s work with a spoon. He can’t get enough of it.

          I see Danny Sherman as a Rasputin figure who has some sort of mystical power and sway over David Miscavige. I can’t think of any other explanation for DM signing off on Danny’s work for public release.

          • Observer

            I wonder how much of Davey’s enthrallment with Danny’s writing is due to a severe deficit in reading comprehension.

            • J. Swift

              Probably everything.

            • Observer

              I’m sure Davey thinks it sounds impressive, which is why I suspect he doesn’t comprehend what he’s reading. I have a hard time watching video of Davey at Scn events because the Shermanspeak triggers my Vicarious Shame Syndrome and I have to quit because the embarrassment he should be feeling (and obviously doesn’t) is so excruciating.

            • Snippy_X

              Vicarious Shame Syndrome! – Thank you, Obs, for naming this demon.

            • Observer

              I see I’m not the only sufferer. Gads, it’s awful. When I was in my 20s I was at a friend’s house and she decided to drag out all the poetry she’d written in high school and still thought was brilliant. I proved that night that one cannot die of sheer embarrassment, however much one may want to.

            • J. Swift

              I know that exact feeling.

              There is a thread over at ESMB about the Vicarious Shame Syndrome that ensued when musical genius L. Ron Hubbard released his world-changing new musical album. The thread is entitled “Shooting Stars” and it is funny, amazing, entertaining and well worth reading: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?21698-Shooting-Stars

            • Observer

              Ohhhh, is that the one with Thank You For Listening? I cringe just thinking about that one.

            • Espiando

              No, that’s The Road To Freedom. Shooting Stars is all about the recording (and we have to use that word loosely) of that masterpiece, Power of Source by the Apollo Stars. The negatives: Lite Jazz that makes you want to pierce your eardrums to make it stop. Positives: no Frank Stallone.

            • J. Swift

              LOL.

              From the ESMB thread:

              “Fortunately, I was just a face in the crowd the first time I saw and heard the POS LP and saw the album cover…no one was paying attention to me…all their attention was on Source and Hisself’s POS. “Holy Shit!” I thought, “Oh shit…shit…shit…Holy Shit!” I was embarrassed for El Ron…Hisself didn’t know or, if Hisself did, didn’t care. I was embarrassed for the Stars, I was embarrassed for my fellow Flag Crew and SO and Staff Members. I was embarrassed for all my fellow Scientologists. And, I was embarrassed for me…” http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?21698-Shooting-Stars/page3

              http://www.recordsbymail.com/uploads/8-20-13-2/174829.JPG

            • J. Swift

              Power of Source, full LP in all it’s glory:

              http://youtu.be/Be1Pbk8EyCo

            • Jo

              It’s not that bad, could see Tarantino using it.

            • J. Swift

              I could see Tarantino using POS if he did a movie that begins with the 1969 double murder of two Scientologists that many believe was carried out by the Manson family as Manson’s revenge against the Church. From a Dec 10, 1969 news article: http://www.cielodrive.com/archive/?p=1602

              “LOS ANGELES, Dec. 10 – Detectives here are investigating possible links between the recent slayings of two young scientologists and the seven murders linked to the alleged killers of actress Sharon Tate, it was learned Tuesday.

              “Parallels among the savage crimes are philosophical as well as physical.

              “As a result, investigators are dipping into the lore of cabals which practice black magic and glorify sexual excess. Under particular scrutiny is a cult which is fiercely antiestablishment and whose beliefs include Satan-worships. It is an offshoot of scientology but is disavowed by practitioners of that mystical, quasi-scientific order…”

            • Jo

              That link should have a movie 18 rating. Gonna have nightmares now. This might not make sense, but thank god I’m not religious.

            • AsthmaticDwarf

              Wow!!!
              I ***never*** thought I’d see that! After reading a Face in the Crowd’s fab 1st person account of back in the day, with Hubbtard, telling about Lafayette’s infallibility in all things including music production, mastering and manufacturing, I wanted to hear it so bad. To see *how bad it really is* — I bet it STINKS!!!

              Thanks, jSwift !

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Captain Bill blew that dip shit LRH fucker away with Galactic Patrol……………..
              Just sayin.

            • Dee Fogger

              Agree! For those who don’t know about the amazing Galactic Patrol song, here’s a link.

              http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/07/post_24.php

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              I felt shame just reading that, Obs.

              But then I laughed like a hyena!

            • J. Swift

              Obs: While DM is cunning he is nevertheless uneducated. Danny has written wrote some fiction books and thus passes for a “sophisticate” in the Cult.

              One of Danny Sherman’s books, iirc, The Man Who Loved Mata Hari was, allegedly, the subject of a plagarism lawsuit and Danny had to pay damages. When I have time I will go down to pull the old court records.

              If anyone has digital access to court records, it was, iirc, Los Angeles Superior Court and thus a CA case. Would love to see the court record.

              The Man Who Loved Mata Hari: http://www.amazon.com/The-Man-Loved-Mata-Hari/dp/0759299773

              From Sherman’s Amazon page: “…Blending history with fiction, THE MAN WHO LOVED MATA HARI has earned its author comparison to John La Carré and Graham Greene. It will ensnare readers with its tale of the woman who held all of Europe spellbound.”

            • Observer

              Ah, so he’s carried on the time-honored Scientology tradition of shameless plagiarism.

            • J. Swift

              Allegedly, which is why I want to find the court records. They are not online and have to be puled from an archive in, iirc, Riverside County, CA.

            • Guest

              ……and if that isn’t enough, Mr. Sherman is pleased to share his work with millions of sane and devoted fans, as his books are being distributed in an impressive planetary expansion that will shock and amaze you!

              :)

            • J. Swift

              😉

            • AsthmaticDwarf

              His writing, too, must be atrocious — 10th grade drop-out he was.
              Davey’s reading comprehension’s surely off-the-mark, but he can dang well read those multiple teleprompters for 3 freakin’ hours, with that sing-song cadence, which is not so much hypnotizing, as stupefying.

      • Sherbet

        J.Swift, am I mistaken? I thought you still believed in hubbard’s tech, but you seem very critical.

        • J. Swift

          Sherbet, I have been a long time Scientology critic. I have even reported specific events about the Church to the FBI and other law enforcement agencies.

          I fully support the rights of anyone to freely peacefully practice their religious beliefs.

          My early public support of the Indies caused the Gerry Armstrong camp to attack me. One of their “Dead Agent” attack lines is that I am a Scientologist, I am not a Scientologist.

          • Sherbet

            Thank you, J. I wasn’t being disrespectful, just curious. When I think of you, I think of Karen, and it was my and others’ understanding that Karen practices indie scientology. Whatever! It doesn’t matter, and it’s none of my business. I love hearing your and Karen’s perspectives, regardless.

            • J. Swift

              Thank you Sherbet.

              Karen and I are delighted to be a part of Tony Ortega’s very big tent that includes Anon’s, OG, Indies, skeptics, still-ins-under-the-radar. ex’s, etc.

              Karen and I just had dinner the other night with Mr. Ortega.

              https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1375745_10151814709894177_83198177_n.jpg

            • Sherbet

              Great photo, J! Tony’s tent is so much nicer than Dave M’s tent in Clearwater, isn’t it!!

            • Sandy

              How in the WORLD does Tony manage to fit in all that he does??? Mind = boggled…

            • Sherbet

              I don’t think he sleeps. At all.

            • aquaclara

              This is a lovely picture. Thanks for sharing it.
              I have to add that I just love seeing the terrific reflections of joy on the photos of all our friends….

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Love the pic.
              Is Tony trying to reg her?

            • Espiando

              There’s no other way to say it: They’re King DILF and Queen MILF of the SP Prom.

            • Free Minds, Free Hearts

              I love that photo!

            • noseinabk

              I bet Dave loves that photo too!

          • Sunny Sands

            Just wondering, but are you saying because your job required a top secret clearance, that automatically disqualified you from studying to become clear (if that’s what a pc does)?

            • J. Swift

              Yes, Hubbard expressly forbid entire classes of people from receiving auditing. If you were involved in the following you cannot be a Scientologist or receive auditing:

              * Law Enforcement
              * Security Clearance
              * Intelligence Agency

              * Psychiatry
              * Journalists

              There are more excluded people and I need to look up the information. Also, if you were connected to any of the above you might be declared illegal or PTS.

            • Reality Scamz

              Thank goodness I had multiple clearances Ferc, Nerc Homeland Security etc:)

            • J. Swift

              Reality Scamz, I think we need to take this part of the discussion into the Cone of Silence:

              http://www.alsforums.com/forum/attachments/people-als-pals/1649d1311609924-cone-silence-cone-silence.jpg

      • grundoon

        “I climbed out of my tall ship’s bunk and made my way to my typewriter.”

        Perusing the Bare-Faced Messiah timeline, I suppose the “ship” was the Magician, purchased in 1937 with the proceeds of Hubbard’s first novel Buckskin Brigades.

    • Robert Eckert

      William James had a deep revelation when he dosed himself with nitrous, and managed to write it down before he passed out. When he came to, he could not remember what the insight was, only that it had been very profound. He found the piece of paper, on which was scrawled in barely legible handwriting:

      “The ineffable smell of petroleum prevails throughout the universe”

      • ze moo

        Most drug induced insights are just as profound. Few of us try to build a religion out them.

      • Reality Scamz

        In my teenage years we used to have acid parties with Green Barrel a form of acid. There were different stages however in the last your mind would open (so you would think).

        After a few weekends some of started to keep notes of a trip. Solve the World’s problems easy, World Hunger, got it. Yet when you came down and read what you wrote. None of it made any sense. This was just a Summer about 1 month of experimentation.
        Edit; just like on a couple of Fridays:)

      • J. Swift

        Perhaps William James had tapped into the same tar coal thing as Hubbard? From Jesse Prince:

        “The year was 1984. Hubbard was on an up swing of one of his manic depressive mood swings. Hubbard started out writing something about the use of computers on the whole track ( whole track = existence and civilizations that pre date any earthly recorded time period) and
        somehow got into a rant about tar-coal perfume. Hubbard discovered that everything he touched had the scent of rose perfume, which was derived from tar-coal. Hubbard said the rose scent permeated all new clothes as the sizing used on new clothes was the same tar coal rose perfume that greatly irritated his nose and skin. Being highly sensitive because of his OTness, Hubbard quickly lost patience for anything that smelled of rose perfume. I guess you could spend a day reading all of the “advices” Hubbard came up with concerning rose perfume. Like the BT (body thetan) story, Hubbard discovered EVERYTHING smelled like rose perfume! All of his clothes smelt like it, every piece of paper sent to him from Int Management and RTC smelt like it. The poor man was plagued by cheap rose perfume and when Hubbard was miserable everyone around or connected to him shared the misery.” (Jesse Prince cited at ESMB: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?24086-Nibs-Tells-Us-the-MO-of-Ron-SR/page3 )

  • stateofcircle

    Off of today’s topic, but Scilon relevant nonetheless, I got to thinking about this whole “Golden Age” crockery and had a cognition of sorts. I would imagine this has been brought up by others before in the voluminous comments lately I can’t possibly keep up with, so I apologize if I am being redundant. Of course that won’t stop me, though :) .

    So, there have been a few of these “Golden Age Of _________ “, i.e. “Knowledge”[sic] , “Technology”[sic], “Extortion”, conveniently being introduced every few years. These revelatory and groundbreaking bastions of Scientology “technology” inevitably require Scientologists to re-do copious amounts of courses, processing and procedures, at their own expensive, invalidating most or all of their previous completions and certs, and preventing them from moving forward on their “Bridge to Total Freedom(tm)” [sic].

    One of the chief complaints of ex-members (and I would imagine current ones as well) is the fact that Auditors are hardly ever being trained anymore and many, many Scientologists are having their progress being stalled or completely halted for all kinds of erroneous reasons. They are being prevented from further “enlightenment” and “knowledge” from Source(tm), thus being kept away from the “technology”, writings and processes that are supposed to be available to them. Many orgs and members are not even capable of training auditors, and the only place a member can even receive higher level “training” is at Flag. Actually, even just mid-level and even some beginning-level courses can only be delivered at Flag now, as the orgs aren’t allowed and/or able to provide them. My point here is that members are being deprived of all their “religion” has to offer and all of the information within, and I believe it is completely intentional, and a part of a longer-term strategy by Miscavige to further his dictatorial and absolute control over whatever remains of his cult. Of course one of the obvious reasons for this is money – members having to pay for services multiple times; pay for “professional” auditing that can only be delivered at Flag at obscene rates which, conveniently, means you also have to pay for accommodations there; buy “new” books, lectures, emeters, etc – but if you think about it, in the grand scheme of things, the money gained from this stuff is just a drop in the bucket compared to the IAS donations that are practically a requirement now and are separate from the “Golden Age” stuff (meaning the donations would occur with or without a “Golden Age”), it’s coming from fewer and fewer members, and it’s only a little bit at a time.

    Miscavige is doing this to for complete control. He has realized that a Scientologist with extensive knowledge of the “technology” and Hubbard’s writings is a very dangerous thing. And this has absolutely nothing to do with “entheta” such as this or any other website critical of the “church”, because contained within Scientology’s own writings is all the proof one needs to see how “off-policy” Miscavige’s actions have been and are. Or, to use their own term, how badly he is “squirrelling” the “technology”. Now, I am a “never-in”, but I am basing this on information from many former high-ranking members such as Debbie Cook, whose NYE email is possibly the best source of proven “out-points” committed by Miscavige using verbatim and contextual “church” policies; Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder, who have demonstrated many, many times through the use of actual, verbatim and contextual policies the exact nature of DM’s flagrant “squirrel”-ness in his projects and actions; Mark Headley, Robert Vaughn Young, Jesse Prince, Gerry Armstrong, Karen De La Carriere, Amy Scobee, Jefferson Hawkins, Jon Atack – the list goes on and on – who have also specifically pointed them out; and the countless ex-members here, on ESMB, OCMB and WWP who have used specific (and, again, verbatim and contextual) policies to prove countless instances of of squirrelling and suppressive actions. These are people who, for the most part, reached the highest levels and have a thorough understanding of the “tech” and Hubbard’s voluminous policies. And Miscavige knows that, and needed to prevent it from happening again. He needed to keep people away from his “religion’s” very own “scriptures”, because within them contains all of the evidence anyone needs to see that he is blatantly defying the principles, tenets, rules, policies, etc of Scientology and committing egregious “crimes” against it, all in it’s own name. So what does a vertically-challenged cult leader do? Well, start by adding and removing some semi-colons from some basic texts and having members go back and spend a great deal of time re-reading and re-doing in order to fully grasp the context of these basic texts. Then, revise some of the basic courses and procedures known to yield noticeable results in order to a) have members experience a pretty much guaranteed “win” thus distracting them from possible negative feelings and reinforcing their confidence in the group and leader and b) keep members busy at lower levels, preventing them from further access and advancement. Then – and this one is a doozy – take some innocuous source material on a hardly or never practiced process and “discover” it, market it to members as some amazing, mind-blowing, life-changing, innovative and completely on source procedure that the only way a member can complete is by re-doing several lower-level courses and processes; but those courses and procedures must be GAT2 approved, and GAT2 isn’t actually available, so while you’re waiting, hold tight and read Dianetics again. Everything else is off limits until further notice.

    tl;dr – Miscavige is keeping members dumb so he can do whatever he wants and control them.

    • Reality Scamz

      He is Altering the Tech along with the fact that scientology doesn’t do any training anymore. The auditors they do produce are getting Quicky Grades (another alteration). They only thing dm is interested in is bleeding more people for Status Upgrades what a joke.

      david miscavige is a 9th grade dropout who’s reign is coming to and end.

      • SandiCorrena

        “A ninth grade” drop out who’s reign is coming to an end” – Who is David Miscavige? We need this on Jeopardy!!

    • ze moo

      All the redoing of lower levels and work at flag is income producing. You have to have staff to do most of that ‘training’. Staff has overhead, even beans and rice cost something. IAS ‘donations’ are the equivalent of buying an indulgence. Straight profit and ethics protection thrown in too. Davey wants all the money for the central admin of CO$, lower level ‘churches’ and Idle mOrgs are screwed.

      I think most of this is to find the completely Miscavige loyal bots. Any one with eye sight and memory has already left.

    • AsthmaticDwarf

      That interesting theroretically SoC, good call — it is strategy that seems to be playing out now: to study/pay-for-service exactly what Dave says and how, and where, he says it must be done; and total control of the membership’s “eternities.” This is accomplished using the control mechanism in $cientology Inc.: “command intention.”

      I”m curious to see how he, Miscavige, delivers a 3 hour presentation in the big tent, in Sherman-speak, and convinces the whales, public, staff and SeaOrg that everything is straight up and vertical. It seems to me – and tons of others – if he opens that dinosaur-of-a-building, dee Supah Powahz Built-ing, that no matter how many people they try to get in there, the freaking thing is so huge that **it’ll seem empty** no matter how many people you bring in there.

      The tent pole extravaganza upcoming — with the 3 spewing fountains and the concrete barriers, seen courtesy of the redoubtable Sunny Sands — is going to be something to see. Miscavige might fall on his face big time. Or will the enthralled-audience-membership be conversationally hypnotized yet again …

    • Valerie Ross

      Golden Age is just a recycle as well, Teeny fists can’t come up with an original thought. When LRH was writing DMSMH, the original Sci Fi Mag that published it said something about “Golden Age of Science Fiction.” Damn now I have to go find dox.

  • Johnny Tank

    Alexa ranking for Oct. 26: *refresh for image*

    Tony: US rank #8,799 – down 45 from yesterday.
    Scientology: US rank #36,890 – down 634 from yesterday.

    See also today’s post on Mike Rinder’s blog http://www.mikerindersblog.org where he in the same way covers his ranking in comparison to Scientology.

  • Espiando

    Just a little FYI: BBC 4 recently did a great three-part documentary on the discovery and development of modern drugs. It’s called “Pain, Pus, and Poisons”, and it’s worth searching out if you have good torrent-fu.

    • jeff

      No need for torrents….Here’s it on youtube:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhD5CbRah84

    • Casabeca

      It looks amazing, now watching.
      PS I’m a fellow Scorpio.

      • Espiando

        Check the calendar. I’m a Sagittarius.

        • Casabeca

          I got bad intel, sorry about that!

          • Casabeca

            I live in the desert and sometimes catch scorpions (with a duct tape wrapped mop handle).
            Maybe you hunt mean bastards?
            😉

      • noseinabk

        I think Howdy is our bunker scorpio birthday.

        • Casabeca

          I thot I read that Espi was too, yesterday or today? IiRC?
          Thought I would add a little contrast perhaps ;).
          Feel free too give me better intel, anytime, NIAB!

          At any rate, I can provide a little contrast :).

        • Casabeca

          Oh dear, Howdy will not want to claim me.
          Not punk enough ;).
          But I will enjoy my celebration anyway!
          Thanks for the info Nose?

  • DodoTheLaser

    Hey guys, Katie Holmes is on Twitter nowh ttp://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?33632-Katie-Holmes-Joins-Twitter-See-Her-First-Tweet!&p=867003&viewfull=1#post867003 Lets show her some love!

    • AsthmaticDwarf

      Yo DtL, O/T: the picture is: Ritratto Di Armigero, oil on canvas, by Giacomo Ceruti (b. 1698, Milano, d. 1767, Milano)

      • DodoTheLaser

        Thanks!

  • AsthmaticDwarf

    Referencing Tony O’s report on Mark Rathbun:

    From Don Jolly’s New York University Revealer article: “… according to Rathbun, David Miscavige, is analogous to Leo X, the Pope whose material and architectural excesses inspired believers to rise up against the Church. Rathbun acknowledges that, in some ways, the equivalence is strained. “As sick and degraded and as much of a disgrace to all the world’s Christians as Leo X was,” Rathbun writes, “David Miscavige does far greater disservice to Scientologists today.” Leo X was, after all, “a typical example of medieval tyranny. David Miscavige has no such excuse.”

  • StatusLevelUP

    Where are all these S.O. lodging?

    • Reality Scamz

      Palmetto & North Saturn for regular the cadet barracks are further up the road. All gated camera’s everywhere the kids are kinda sad here is a little youtube of the cadets
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E86z0N4F2OA

      • Jo

        That is really sad, poor kids.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          But that is the reality.

      • Miss Tia

        but i thought they claim they no longer HAVE cadets?! /sarcasm

      • AsthmaticDwarf

        Children of the Corn, $cientology Inc. kids.
        Clearwater FL. A snip from RealityS video.

        • Reality Scamz

          That video is from a very caring Anon who for some reason has a great amount of compassion for all living things. That video is a sad yet stark reminder of how important what Tony, Mark Bunker, Tory, Anon’s etc do sometimes at personal risk to bring down this cult of scientology

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            Is that vid from Xander?

            • Reality Scamz

              Yes

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              He rocks. :-)

          • Jo

            His vids make my cry and so they should. He has a lot of compassion of people trapped in this cult. http://youtu.be/zgyhZ9DPnok

        • sugarplumfairy

          jeeeeeeezzzz.. Probably all are going through something akin to what Laura suffered..

          • Casabeca

            Heavy sigh.

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      Sea Org? or the Org staff that has been brought in? Sea Org is in the apartment buildings.

      The outer org staff is living in three motels the COS owns and I believe another building they opened due to the NEED for beds.

      Edit: sorry. i have pics and names of the motels…but I just walked in the door from vacation and can barely find my own ass right now.
      (and if you have ever seen my ass,…you know how tired I must be…LOL)

      • StatusLevelUP

        Has anyone checked the occupancy ratings for these motels? Are there 4 cots in each room? I’m wondering if excessive occupancy is creating fire hazards in Clearwater as we speak.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          I can safely say from what I witnessed… there are several people sharing each room. But i don’t even know how they get away with it. The “motels” still “appear” as motels. Yet they all flash “No Vacancy” signs.
          WTF?
          How does Clearwater continue to let this occur?

          • Observer

            The city government has been infiltrated, safepointed, or cowed.

          • StatusLevelUP

            A motel should have an occupancy rating posted in plain sight in the lobby, and formally logged in city hall. If their average occupancy is several people per room, then they are most likely in violation of fire codes.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Uh yeah, go ahead and try to make it into the lobby.

              I will wait here with the taser.
              hehe.

            • StatusLevelUP

              Perhaps tipping off the Fire Marshall would be a safer and more convenient approach

            • Reality Scamz

              Just a question have you ever visited the Clearwater Org in the Tampa Bay Area? scientology is on most Better Business Boards for one. In this area they have a mole in a local Federal agency as well not making it up.

            • StatusLevelUP

              No I haven’t, but in my experience fire codes have been the sling shot that irritated many Goliaths, at least in terms of causing short term headaches.

            • Reality Scamz

              You should see how cozy the Clearwater PD is with them. Not all officers but enough there have also been questionable deaths that were never properly investigated. Investigative techniques disregarded it may sound unbelievable but it has happened. More than one former law enforcement officer came to the same conclusion, but it happened.

            • Miss Tia

              Ah, I just asked this—hadn’t read down, asked, then proceeded down. I wonder too about room occupancy limits, how many are in each room, etc and I believe that IS the fire marshall’s call.

              I think that information SHOULD be public with the hotel board (or whatever it’s called in the city) OR at least the Fire department would have and/or also the city health & safety department as they would have to do inspections.

          • Espiando

            Use Occam’s Razor, BTN. What’s the city of Clearwater’s hotel tax set at?

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Frowny face at you.
              Quit being logical!!!

            • Guest

              Espiando is part Vulcan, you know.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Heh Heh………yup!

          • Reality Scamz

            They still kind of own Clearwater, Sarah Heller the ED of legal when she calls the cops they jump. If she needs a ride they will take her no problem. Many of those hotels they own are really not very nice as well.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Sarah Heller scares me.

            • Reality Scamz

              Want to get a laugh make sure you video her just have someone with you she really hates that and she really isn’t scary just evil. Born into the cult her father is some bigwig.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              DeLiz and i have a great SH story.
              but for later………….`)

          • Miss Tia

            I’m only asking this now while I think of it before I go to bed, but YOU relax and unpack and unwind from vacation!!! Are the hotels they own ONLY for $cienos? I’m just seeing if they are like public hotels, or if they are sort of like closed to the public and they just use them for themselves.

            If they are ‘public’ and they are exceeding room occupancy wouldn’t a fire marshall care? ANYONE there?? Damn….someone should!! I know I read somewhere recently that someone in the city actually got them to pay hotel tax (or some kind of tax on a hotel).

            • Reality Scamz

              They are all private with CCT and usually Osa flag security trying to intimidate you if you even step 1 foot on the property.

            • Miss Tia

              Hmmm….so i wonder if they fall under ANY regulations at all?? if they serve food they’d have to comply with health laws, right? and if people sleep there, i still think safety laws apply—like a college dorm, not anyone could stay there, but they have to comply with health & safety rules/regulations…..

              cameras and security means diddly to me, i’m in ohio…..now if an OFFICIAL from the city/state came to inspect they can’t intimidate them….well they CAN but they’d go get a warrant for probable cause…..

            • Reality Scamz

              The chow hall on Sea Org alley is where they all eat which require ID badges to enter. Before any health inspections the City would notify them.

              As for barracks housing they are known for staking bunk beds 3 high. They only get a few hours on Sunday usually every 2 weeks. After working 16-18 hr days they have been known to then do laundry at the barracks at 11pm.. As for hygiene they have a canteen however most only get $50 per week. Unless stats are down or they are required to donate to david miscavige for his birthday for one.

              As for why they get married so young it is the only way they get any privacy. However the husband and wife rarely see each other. In the 1980-90 era parents were almost constantly separated from their children as well

            • Miss Tia

              I knew all that except about needing ID badges to enter the chow hall, but that’s not surprising. They’ll do laundry in the middle of the night at times when the machines are free too. Married couples in a lot of places have to share quarters with other married couples but they do get their own room at least.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              oh sigh…tomorrow………………..

            • Miss Tia

              it’s sunday! :)

          • Robert Eckert

            Do they pay the hotel tax on every occupied room every night like they are supposed to?

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              UNK….but I doubt it.

            • StatusLevelUP

              That’s an excellent question! Shouldn’t the community benefit from a tax for all this activity?

  • media_lush

    ….. speaking of valium; I posted this back in the summer and I think is appropriate again…. I also think this is the very last public photo of Miscavige on record unless anyone can point me to a more recent one. I remember from comments at the time that people were saying that this was definitely a “gaze” obtained from meds… this might also explain why he is surviving on a day to day basis without imploding and also explain the stupid decisions he’s making on a consistent basis

    • Observer

      I don’t think that’s Miscavige. iirc it’s some movie industry guy.

      • AsthmaticDwarf

        It’s not Dave Miscavage’s hairline. I think you right, Obs.

        • Observer

          No, the article I saw it with identified him, and it’s not Davey. Of course I can’t remember who it is or what the article was about. And doesn’t Davey only wear blue suits?

          • AsthmaticDwarf

            Yet Guest in this thread is sayin’ Barb Schwartz says it him, Shelly’s hubby.
            hmmm … mystery guest, will you please stand up? _ oops! you *are* standing up !!

            • Observer

              You should pay a visit to Barb’s website. Hahaha!

            • Jo

              Don’t tell anyone to go there, it’s not safe.

            • Guest

              It’s not the “Real Barb Schwartz” saying it was him. I am referring to the Barb Schwartz who looks like Barb, but speaks somewhat coherently, and is therefore a decoy. :)

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Falls on face.
              Is that the Barb that is Sarah? The one who loves Marty?………Not Moseys Marty…but the other one?
              The real Marty.
              OK, need another beer.
              So glad i am home and can fall into my own bed …HAHAHA

            • Guest

              Scroll down to read Barb’s comments and the responses from Marty and Mike, etc. It is golden! Golden, I tells ya!

              http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2011/01/06/radical-scientologys-operation-sleaze-out/

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Why do I see a rabbit hole coming………….Lol

            • AsthmaticDwarf

              uhm, natch !!

            • AsthmaticDwarf

              oh, Guest- okay- I caught it ~
              When Rinder said: “I believe there were efforts to stir up Barbara Schwartz who was nuts and would just get rolling on someone and become a total pain in the ass with non-sequitur, imaginary allegations and claims. Whether she ever did any postings concerning you or not I dont know. But if there were things that seemed to be from her back then they probably were written by her. She was like a Chuckie doll that could be wound up and pointed in a certain direction and she would keep going and no matter what was said or done in response (even if nothng) it simply motivated her more.”

            • Guest

              Grasshopper, you have passed test of trail of breadcrumbs.

              More breadcrumbs on trail. Follow path. Humble teacher hears evening slumber’s song.

            • AsthmaticDwarf

              <3, Guest ~

            • Guest

              XO

            • AsthmaticDwarf

              <3 'night.

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            You are right….but no, Davey does wear grey and blackish suits as well.
            There are several pics of him in the greys…………

            • Observer

              I have learned something this evening. lol

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Haven’t we all………..heh heh.
              Thanks for straightening us out, Obs.

            • Observer

              It doesn’t even matter if it’s Davey or not. That kind of sloppiness by a supposed professional just gets my goat. My annoyance was not directed at anyone except whatever Daily Mail yahoo wrote the caption.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Boo Yah!!!!

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Actually I am not sure………Nose, check. Chin, check. Eyebrows? UNK…cuz of the glasses.
          Size, check.
          Hairline…suspect.

          Actually I don’t care much.
          Because anything involving Tom Cruise means automatic derision.
          So…I am good.

          • Observer

            Indeed!

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      This is my favorite picture of the twins.
      This picture of Dave is the most gay.pic.ever!

      And I mean NO disrespect to LBGT folks.
      OH NO.
      In fact………….If they don’t get the Joke…….No one will!

      LOOK AT THAT FACE…………..HA!!!

      • Espiando

        No, it’s not Dave, but it’s definitely the Gay Forrest Gump.

        • AsthmaticDwarf

          He’s a Hollywood Agent, a big cheese.

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            Who? Who is he. He is Dave’s exact size!

            • Guest

              According to Barb Schwartz, it’s Shelly’s husband.

            • AsthmaticDwarf

              hmmm. The hairline… really… ok!

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Snort!
              OK, Now I have PROOF!

            • Jo

              Was just thinking that, weird.

            • Jo

              Would crazy Davey be mad or scared enough too have a double? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1270262/

          • media_lush

            this was from the Daily Mail…. there were a few people the first time who thought it was someone else but the majority thought it was COB….. given the fact that there must be very, very, very few people who are shorter than Cruise apart from COB I would hedge my bets and say it’s Tiny Fists

            • media_lush

              pretty sure it’s him

            • Guest

              The melolabial creases and folds are the same. It’s Miscavige. (Probably right after a haircut.)

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Yep. the folds,…the ears are a dead giveaway……the chin.
              That tiny center ridge in the tip of his nose.

              That is Dave.

            • noseinabk

              Look as the shoulder height.

            • Observer

              Nope. Here’s a a couple of pics of Cruise and gray suit guy from a different angle, and it’s definitely not Miscavige. Look at the smile lines in their cheeks, for one thing. Completely different.

              I’m gonna be up all night trying to remember who gray suit guy is.

            • jeff

              Definitely not DM. The most obvious is the nose difference, but (recalling a documentary I once watched) if you look at the ears, they are significantly different,

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              while I will agree at this point……………I am Not seeing the ear difference.
              Help me?

            • jeff

              In Media Lush’s 4 way pictire compare the top left with the bottom right. You will see that there is a difference on the underside of the ear canal/

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Touche’

              Word!

            • Guest

              I stand corrected. (Bows to Obs and hands over a plate of oatmeal chocolate chip cookies).

              You are good, sistah!

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Yep, I am convinced now too.
              That profile sure does NOT look like the Evil Dwarf.

            • Observer

              *accepts cookies greedily gratefully*

              It’s really not in the least important, and I know that, but it pushes one of my few obsessive buttons. I’m not finding fault with anyone except the bozo who screwed up the identification in the caption. But the Daily Fail is good at stuff like that.

            • Guest

              Your Shooper Powers are amazing! When can we expect the Shooper Powers Observatory Building to open?

            • Observer

              I suck at regging, so probably at least as long as it’s taking Super Power. A Flickr account is the best I can do at the moment.

              http://www.flickr.com/photos/104455089@N03/

              Edit: btw, it’s great to have you back!

            • Guest

              Ha ha! I am just an anonymous guest. Can’t you tell that I am wearing my Guy Fawkes mask? (It is not easy trying to drink wine with this thing on!)

              XO

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Moscato? 😉

            • Guest

              Yup. Villa Alena. A light and balanced selection from Trader Joe’s. (Purchased during his business trip last week.)

              “very affordable

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              I have ZERO Trader Joe’s near me!!!
              I miss them from when I lived on the west coast. ;-(
              Of course i am just happy to be home and excited to sleep in my own bed………AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

              Still need wine…but that is another story 😉

            • StatusLevelUP

              You should always keep an emergency bottle of tequila behind the encyclopedia

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Just off the first exit for Gainsville. Not too far, maybe 40 minutes?

            • sugarplumfairy

              I’d recognize those Oatmeal cookies anywhere.. =)

            • Guest

              *sneaks a few to spf*

            • AsthmaticDwarf

              Thought it was a Hollywood Agent big cheese ~

            • Observer

              Yeah, I’m thinking it’s either an agent or possibly a producer. It’s going to torment me until I remember who it is.

            • AsthmaticDwarf

              I know I’ve seen that mug before… long, long ago and far, far away …

            • media_lush

              you know how Saddam had lookalikes appear at some of his functions where he was worried he might get assassinated ….. anyway, while I think you might be right I’m not 100% convinced as I’m sure if their was a 5’4″ agent in Hollywood we’d know about him

            • Dee Fogger

              I still think grey suit guy is Miscavige. In this link you’ll see the photo you’ve posted above with another person to Cruise’s left that’s listed as Alan Horn who is a honcho. Perhaps you saw the original and thought Alan was the guy on Cruise’s right?

              http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Tom+Cruise/Jerry+Bruckheimer+Honored+Walk+Fame+Part+2/IIJYsT-ari3

            • AsthmaticDwarf

              Nope- the hairline is *not* Miscavige’s ~

            • Observer

              Nope. The article had a close-up of gray suit guy (it was about him, not Cruise), and tha name was definitely not Alan Horn.

            • media_lush

              here’s the pic for easy reference…. also he has a wedding ring [just a message to show his wife is still alive, ed]

            • EnthralledObserver

              The grey suit guy has his hair parted a different way to the way Makemerich always has it in every other picture. A good resemblance in that photo, but no, not him I don’t believe.

            • Miss Tia

              Well my reply above was based on if it WAS DM! But that picture there really doesn’t look like DM at all. And I can’t imagine DM NOT having the bottom button of his suit jacket buttoned either.

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            Dox the agent.

        • Guest

          I thought David Miscavige WAS the gay Forrest Gump .

    • Reality Scamz

      When watching the Nightline interview I am 100% certain david miscavige used drugs. It is just to apparent in that long interview Koppel did back then. His eyes, clenched fists and posture just scream that he was on something.

      • AsthmaticDwarf

        Nicotine and Scotch whiskey?
        or …

      • John P.

        I don’t think it was drugs. I think he was scared shitless and was out of his element. I have seen plenty of people choke like that on their first big presentation, even if they have been properly trained. But Miscavige was not properly trained; his presentations at events show he doesn’t have any idea how to be authentic in front of an audience.

        According to that video with Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder, Miscavige spent nine months preparing for the interview by having people drill him in potential questions so he could memorize answers. The only problem with memorizing answers to hypothetical questions is that they never ask you the questions you’re expecting. They make up many of the questions as you go, based on what you said before. And so you’re always inherently terrified that the next question is one you don’t know. That inherent fear will eventually leak out and you will crater. If you don’t know your subject enough to generate an answer to a question on the spot, you shouldn’t be doing an interview.

        So why would Miscavige do an interview if he knew he had no media skills? Perhaps he thought his forceful, dynamic personality and his overall Sooper Powerz would carry the day. After all, he, the mighty David Miscavige, has absolute power over the lives of everyone in his fiefdom. Ted Koppel is merely some overpaid wog journalist with way better hair than brians.

        The result was about what you would expect when a delusional model of reality comes into contact with the real world. No drugs needed to produce that effect.

        • Dee Fogger

          Yup, he was preparing like he was going to compete in Miss America and get lobbed questions about world peace and not an actual interview with a real journalist.

        • Miss Tia

          You hit the nail on the head there!!

          And seriously, most leaders of other religious WILL speak to the media, they KNOW the subject. DM doesn’t even PRACTICE $cientology!

        • StatusLevelUP

          Such a basic human trait, to answer spontaneously with honesty. He clearly can’t do that. Too bad his basic humanity has been overwritten by a mad man who peaked in the 1950s. Or perhaps it’s a good thing, to have such a dud leading the cult.

          • sugarplumfairy

            He peaked in the 20s.. It was all downhill after he invented Eagle Scouts..

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              yaY

            • StatusLevelUP

              lol:) He was a little psychopath, who habitually lied to himself in his diaries

    • Miss Tia

      I take valium, now I know meds affect people different and I have a genuine anxiety condition, but I would garner a guess that that is not due to valium. Unless he took A LOT (more than prescribed dose) I’m thinking he looks like Sam’s sister in 16 Candles on her wedding day after having popped all those muscle relaxers. I think muscle relaxers would have more of an affect on him.

      Also think of the long term damage the steroid usage has done to him—from accounts of his muscles as a teen, he had to have been using steroids and not just the kind to help his asthma. Roid rage might account for SOME of his temper too.

      He looks totally out of it in his picture. He’s out of HIS zone of control and having to have a mask of ‘respectability’ and being unable to lose his temper would probably take a lot of propping via some kind of ‘self-medicating.

      • AsthmaticDwarf

        It’s not Davey, MissT, as proven — finally ! — downthread ~

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Not Proven: but consensus. 😉

        • Miss Tia

          Yes, I mention further down, that I replied above thinking it was him. I was reading DOWN and replying as I went! :) And I do concur, but it does look like him here, understandable mistake!

      • jeff

        He fits the bill for propranolol, though….a drug mostly used as a heart medicine, but favored for anxiety over public speaking http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propanolol

        • John P.

          I doubt Miscavige does propranolol.

          I suspect he grooves on the control and power of all the prep for his public appearances, particularly all the drama around rehearsals. One thing I have noted in the events I’ve seen is that he’s actually pretty good at reading from his TelePrompTer. I can’t recall a single significant mistake he’s made when reading his text. That speaks to a very high level of rehearsal, particularly given his lack of education, which I would think would make it hard to read accurately a lot of words generally beyond his reading comprehension level. Frankly, I don’t think he’d be able to maintain that level of precision in reading his text if he was slightly stoned on even a low-level drug like propranolol.

          While it is indeed an impressive feat to be able to read off a TelePrompTer for two hours without making many mistakes, that doesn’t make him an impressive speaker. He’s a train wreck in so many other dimensions that it undermines whatever value there is in being able to read his text quite well.

          • jeff

            OK…But there;s just something very off about his speaking style. Like it would almost be ok if it were a voiceover, but live it sounds almost robotic…very rhythmic in pitch, sliding down, then picking up only to slide down again, irrespective of the words.

            • Reality Scamz

              Yep that is david miscavige robotic and up and down every speech.

            • StatusLevelUP

              It’s been speculated that his voice has been artificially modulated

            • jeff

              Well it certainly sounds as if he’s speaking through an echo chamber, but pitch modulation during a live event would be hard to pull off.

            • John P.

              Yes, there is a lot “off” in DM’s speaking style. My first-ever post regarding Scientology on any blog was this detailed critique of Miscavige in response to the 2011 LRH Birthday event presentation video that Marty posted on his site. It may be a TL;DR for some but it is pretty thorough. The first point I raised is that he appears to use some sort of digital reprocessing of his voice, perhaps Auto-Tune, which gives the odd inflections. In particular, the way “LRH” sounds in the video is unlike how any native speaker of American English would pronounce it. He’s consistent through the video, which makes me think he’s not stoned, he’s just being reprocessed in an odd way. And since it’s “live,” they can’t go in and selectively turn the enhancement on and off for different phrases.

              http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2011/04/02/the-cult-of-miscavige-desecration-day/#comment-146990

            • jeff

              Good analysis. I watched the video first (nauseating as it was), then read your comments. Spot on.

          • Once_Born

            “That speaks to a very high level of rehearsal”

            This appears to be Miscavige’s favoured approach. As you say, it works well in public events, when everything is under his control (and the speech is written for him) .

            However, when he was interviewed on TV he tried to prepare for every possible question – and his performance was calamitous.

            Perhaps (pure speculation here, not to be taken too seriously)…

            He can only function inside the CofS, where the people around him pander to his personality disorder, by enduring his abuse and providing all of the things (like a written speech) which are beyond his capabilities.

            He only needs medication to cope with the outside world, which he dreads because:

            > He has never lived in it
            > He cannot prepare for what may happen there
            > The few occasions he has tried to engage with it, he has been humiliated

        • StatusLevelUP

          Many classical musicians use propranolol, it has worked for me

      • Aslansown

        Yay! A 16 Candles reference. Love that movie.

        • KJP in Portland

          Sigh…I loved that whole era in the movies (when I was in the Navy and a couple years after). I still laugh and feel like a teen again when I Fast Times at Ridgemont High…lol…

        • Miss Tia

          :)

      • KJP in Portland

        I’m noticing something else about him in the video.

        1) His skin color looks really ‘off’. It’s not a healthy pink, or tanned. He looks grey, or pale…

        2) He also looks like someone that somehow sneaked into the Hollywood bigtime, via his friend TC, and is basking in TC’s glory and DM is looking like a wannabe Hollywood celebrity, or has the look of a supportive boyfriend / spouse. Ya get what I mean?

        Just inserting a 3rd probability here. He’s probably trying to appear out of the limelight, when he is used to being the center of limelight in Crimatology…

        Trippy…

        • KJP in Portland

          NO ONE has a comment on my observation? Oh, c’mon!

      • KJP in Portland

        And look at TC chomping his gum with his mouth wide open! Didn’t anyone, after all the hundreds of millions he’s made, teach him some manners?

      • KJP in Portland

        I have a similar script, Tia. I have a bit of PTSD from getting run down by an F-14 launching off the deck in ’84. I also saw another fellow get his leg cut off below the knee when an arresting wire (#3 for you carrier junkies) snapped and whipped around the aft flight deck. I was only 20 feet away. I still get dreams occasionally and the government won’t even give me 10-20% for that.

        No shame…I’ve lived with anxiety ever since. But, here’s my take on anxiety vs. depression. The MD’s all say that anxiety is linked to depression. I don’t believe that is 100% so. I believe I have anxiety ONLY. I don’t have depression. I am always upbeat. I am always behaving like the future is real bright, etc.

        I think I’m one of the few that fall outside the ‘anxiety is caused by depression’ statement. I neverhad anxiety before the Navy. I sure left the Navy with the jitters, and it’s stayed with me for 28 years. The benzos sometimes are the only thing that allow me to sleep.

        But depressed? Hell no! I am always looking at the positive side of things…not suicide, or the world is hopeless. Screw them. I guess I’m a freak or something to them.

        • Miss Tia

          Oh I don’t believe anxiety is linked to depression either!! I actually never HEARD that anxiety is linked to depression! I don’t think that in many instances anxiety is born out of depression either. Did a doctor tell you that or did you read that somewhere? I have never heard of these theories!

    • Observer

      Okay, here’s a video of gray suit guy and Cruise at that event. I’m on my phone and YouTube has different URLs for mobile and desktop browsing, so I hope it works.

      http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0P2xQEaNrfg&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D0P2xQEaNrfg

      • jeff

        He (mystery guy) almost looks like Robert Downey, Jr. there.

        • Observer

          All I can think when I watch that is how Tom Cruise looks like some kind of ruminant chewing its cud.

          • Orglodyte

            Like this?

      • noseinabk

        Obs, could it be steve buscemi? He worked with the guy getting the award. Put glasses on this pic. The the full lips?

      • Dee Fogger

        Seeing that – agree it’s not Miscavige although I’d like it be – just so I could make fun of his clapping tech. Does he actively search out friends shorter than himself?

        • TXCowgirl

          Maybe the mystery friend is actually taller than TC and TC is wearing his trusty lifts?

      • Jimmy Threetimes

        M_L’s photo makes it look like James Woods. The video does not make it look like James Woods.

      • AsthmaticDwarf

        wow- you found a video of that guy, as the Bunker needed to see some evidence. Very impressive, Obs. ~

      • TheCommodeDoor

        That’s Alan Horn – Chairman, The Walt Disney Studios – on the left, and Ricky Strauss – Walt Disney Studios Worldwide Marketing Chief (he replaced MT Carney after John Carter). Disney has had a long standing relationship with Jerry Bruckheimer.

      • TheCommodeDoor

        That’s Alan Bergman – President, Walt Disney Studios to the left of Ricky Strauss. Bruckheimer’s star is in front of the El Capitan Theatre – also owned (along with the former Hollywood Masonic Lodge next door, current home of Jimmy Kimmel Live) by Disney.

    • Jo

      Reminds me of The Carpenters. http://youtu.be/6inwzOooXRU

      • AsthmaticDwarf

        uhm, nope. This is 40 years ago, Jo.!!
        Richard Carpenter. A&M Records. Piano & Vocal arranger.

        • Jo

          Nope, I just meant the song, lol.

      • media_lush

        always thought she had the most amazing voice…… listened to a couple of others and came across this…… http://youtu.be/ZwqAftGgkW8

        • Jo

          Lol.

  • AsthmaticDwarf

    A reminder on a Saturday eve of the founder’s state of, er uhm self-examination, in the times leading up to the release of his 1st best-seller, DTMSMH, Lafayette Ronald Hubbard, here, in a wonderful work compiled from original papers by the redoubtable Gerry Armstrong: “The Admissions of L Ron Hubbard

    “Sexual feeling has been depressed by several things amounting to a
    major impasse. To cure ulcers of the stomach I was given testosterone
    and stilbesterol. These reduced my libido to nothing. While taking
    these drugs I fell in love with Sara. She can be most exciting
    sexually to me. Because of drugs as above and a hangover from my
    ex-wife Polly, I sometimes am unexcited by anything sexual. This
    depresses me.

    My wife left me while I was in a hospital with ulcers. Polly was quite
    cruel. She was never a woman for me. She was under-sexed and had bad
    sexual habits such as self-laceration done in private. She was no mate
    for me and yet I retained much affection for her. It was a terrible
    blow when she left me for I was ill and without prospects. I know, by
    this, she actually wanted no more than my ability to support her. This
    has had an effect of impotency upon me, has badly reduced my ego
    .”

    • Missionary Kid

      As much as I detest LRH, that’s almost TMI. Hahahaha.

  • Sandy

    Howdy! Do Something! Becuz of you and Sherbert I am invested in this series!

    • Ruby

      Are you talking baseball?

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        but of course.

        • Ruby

          Oh boy! My other passion! I am watching too. :) I am a Dodger gal at heart, so since they are not there, I am rooting for St. Louis, National league.

          • Sandy

            I am a Mn Twins fan, but this yr, I am rooting for Boston bcuz of Howdy and Sherb!

            • Sandy

              Luv pro baseball since I was a kid

            • Ruby

              Me too! Dad would take us to many games! So fun!
              Well , as much as I love Sherb and The Captain, I am still going for the Cards! :)

            • AsthmaticDwarf

              Well, Ruby dear, Sherbie and Cap’n are watching their red socks gettin’ pooped all over @ 10PM CST (uhm, make that central standard time and *not* Cherch of Spiritual Technology– k?)

            • Ruby

              :))

            • Sandy

              Mom would make me iron on the weekends, but she let me listen to baseball on the radio while I was ironing. Huge Mn Twins fan …

            • Ruby

              My dad was a big baseball fan, and as soon as Dodger stadium was built, he took us there for summer games. :)

            • Sherbet

              I forgive you, Ruby. :-)

            • Ruby

              Haha!

    • Captain Howdy

      Red Sox suck. Peavy sucks. Middlebrook sucks.

      I’m back to being a Giants fan

      Unless they win tmw.; )

      • KJP in Portland

        Ah crud, I am a Giants fan. I forgot. When I was in the service, we’d go to Candlestick 7-8 times a season and freeze our butts off. I loved that ballpark. Hot chocolate in August!

      • Sherbet

        I feel your pain, Howdy. You and me and a few million other people.

  • NOLAGirl

    A Sciloon tweet from about 15 minutes ago:

    @ Scientology Church of Scientology: Scientology Attitudes and Practices: Does one really need to do well in life? (I left the link out)

    The irony is TOO thick. You don’t need a good life…just give us all your money. SMH!!!

    • KJP in Portland

      I’m poor and I DO have a good life. ‘Good Life’ to them is uplinking all the money they con from innocents up to DM’s coffers. Oh what a great life…money (that the staffers won’t see anyway)

  • KJP in Portland

    Tight game. Go Sox!

    • Ruby

      Go Cards! :)

      • AsthmaticDwarf

        Sherbie and Cap’n are watching their red socks gettin’ pooped all over by red birds ~

        • Sherbet

          Aw, don’t rub it in, ‘Dwarf.

          • AsthmaticDwarf

            C’mon, Sherbie darlin’ – don’t be too sensitvo. Win some, lose some. And it ain’t over til the Fat Lady sings ~

            • Sherbet

              I know, but this year is special. Whatever happens, it’s been a great ride. Anyway, you know what they say about the Red Sox? “They killed my father, and now they’re coming after me.”

            • AsthmaticDwarf

              4 – 4 now.
              See- the Fat Lady ain’t sung yet!!

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              David Ortiz is portly indeed, but I wouldn’t call him a lady.

            • Shannon

              Go Sox! (Mets fan, love anything that gives my Yankee loving friends grief!)

            • AsthmaticDwarf

              Dang, S !

            • Shannon

              I need something to keep me going, not like my team does anything other then get hurt and throw games…

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              Mets had a title in 86. Wait your turn in line 😉

            • Shannon

              Haha year I was born, I am special little luck charm, this I know!

            • KJP in Portland

              Still at least 2, maybe 4 games to go. They still have time Sherbie!

        • Captain Howdy

          The Sox beat themselves on both games.

          • KJP in Portland

            Hehehe, at least we’re not seeing the Dodgers or the Yankees for once. Whoever wins, they’ll deserve it!

            • KJP in Portland

              We’ve wanted MLB in Portland for 40 years. Still…nothing. We’ve wanted NHL for 40 years. Still…nothing. Crappy 2.2 million metro-area for sports. So, I like to follow the teams that don’t get to the top too often. I’m ok with either winning. I just picked the Sox because my best friend in the Navy was from Beantown, but now resides in the Sierras (nice choice!)

            • Straight Diet of Kerbango

              I just watched a Portland Timbers game on TV. Really fun. Not a huge soccer fan, but the fans occupying that old baseball field were awesome.

    • Espiando

      But the Sox aren’t in the World Series, not with a 99-loss season.

  • NOLAGirl

    Found this on Twitter tonight. A very kind message sent directly to current Co$ members, lurkers, and “still-ins” questioning the world outside of Co$, from Anonymous. (Forgive me if this has been posted already)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvjjQQ_DBiA

    • TXCowgirl

      I’ll be hearing that auto-tune voice in my nightmares tonight. Thx NOLA!

      • NOLAGirl

        LOL Sorry TX!!! 😀 I’d call and sing to you but that might be worse. LOL

        • TXCowgirl

          Let’s split a Mother’s sammie with the burnt parts next time I’m east of Baton Rouge and we’ll call it a wash.

          • NOLAGirl

            Deal. 😀

            • TXCowgirl

              As long as I’m there, I’d like to relive my youth by dancing on the pool tables at the F&M at 3:00 am.

            • NOLAGirl

              LOL :)

            • TXCowgirl

              More than half a lifetime ago, I lived in the converted schoolhouse on the corner of Coliseum and Upperline. Walked to the Prytania. Fun times.

    • SandiCorrena

      I love-Anon!

    • AsthmaticDwarf

      nice ~

      • NOLAGirl

        Got a down vote…someone doesn’t think so. LOL Oh well!! 😀

        • noseinabk

          When the down vote is that random it is usually a fat finger mistake. Some newbie’s do not realize that if you hit the up vote it will erase the down vote.
          If it is a down vote…screw em.

          • Espiando

            I downvoted it. This is one of the early Anon messages, released on Hubbard’s birthday, 2008, right before Operation Party Hard. It’s nothing new at all, and I don’t like the impression being given that it is. Besides, it was obtained from Twitter, which is an abomination and the death of communication, and a realm of retards who think their opinion is worth broadcasting to the world.

            • NOLAGirl

              My bad…I thought it was new. Maybe I should just take it down. :(

            • Espiando

              Maybe you should check the uploaded date next time.

            • NOLAGirl

              You know Espiando, I come here with only the best intentions. Goodnight.

            • Espiando

              {Ooooooh, sorry if the mean old baddie me hurt your ickle feelings.}

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              Why are you going after her so hard? She didn’t check the date on a YouTube video. Down vote her cause you didn’t like the link. Fine. But maybe dial it back a bit?

            • Espiando

              It wasn’t that. It was the attempted Sympathy Flounce, which no female over the age of 14 should attempt without consequent loss of credibility.

            • EnthralledObserver

              That’s bullshit, and you know it – you are clearly just in a mood for starting trouble.

            • NOLAGirl

              It was no attempt for sympathy, it was shock that you’d go so hard at me for simply not seeing the date of a video. And what credibility was I searching for?? It was just a nice video I thought I’d share.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Ignore him NOLAGirl… he’s just in his arsehole mood… he has them from time to time.

            • NOLAGirl

              Thanks EO, but as I said before…I’m just going to go for the night. Have a good one everyone.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Night, hon… have a nice sleep.

            • AsthmaticDwarf

              and forge about it, and come back fresh tomorrow. You are one of the terrific committed people and you are wanted and needed ~

            • NOLAGirl

              Thanks AD. I appreciate your kind words.

            • KJP in Portland

              Err…I’ll just go step outside a minute…

            • EnthralledObserver

              Take Espi with you and teach the wanker some manners… thanks. :)

            • KJP in Portland

              I get a downvote? You know something? I didn’t say a fucking word to you, I stayed out of it, but now you want to piss on me, why don’t you get off the rag and go lurk somewhere else. You’re being a real shithead tonight. The poor lady didn’t know, she admitted so, and still you go on ragging and ragging about it. Leave it the fuck alone already. I’m just going to conclude that you’re having a bad day! (((steams)))

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              Err, my bad I fat fingered that down vote…

            • TXCowgirl

              You read my mind.

            • KJP in Portland

              and (((hugs))) to you, sweetie 😉

            • TXCowgirl

              Thanks, sugar.

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              I didn’t see it as a cry for sympathy. She posted a link that was new to her and may be new to a lot of people. I agree with your opinions of twitter and Facebook, for sure. But your reaction towards her was over the top.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Espi knows he’s being a prick… he’s fully aware… you don’t need to reason with him that that is what he’s doing – he knows already – it’s deliberate. And it comes with the swings of his mood, he’s told me so previously. I just think he needs a virtual smack every now and then when he does this to remind him it’s not acceptable and we won’t tolerate it. Ok Espi? 😉

            • TXCowgirl

              EO, for tonight I will consider and trust your words. KJP, I think it’s ok to come back inside now.

            • noseinabk

              Very good! I don’t even want to know why Espi does not bother me, and I do not see him as DARK as others do. I guess I just don’t take the post as literally as some do?

            • KJP in Portland

              I understood that Espi was a female. If I am wrong, it’s only the Internet…fuggit.

            • noseinabk

              In the long run its is of no consequence but Espi is a he.

            • KJP in Portland

              Oh wow. I stand corrected then. I thought one of the real longtimers corrected me one night some weeks back…ok…I’m enlighted now.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Ha! He will LOVE that!

            • noseinabk

              NOT.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Bastard! (oooh, sorry… didn’t mean to offend) Your offense of being a prick is far worse a crime/mistake than failing to check an upload date. FFS, grow up.

            • noseinabk

              Nola please do not be offended by Espi. He is a meanie ( sometimes) with a big squishie heart who fights the good fight with all the other bunkerites. UUhhh, I dont know why I have become the locale defender, maybe because I have been such a long time lurker and infrequent poster, that I think I understand the NEW verses OLD bunker mentality. Some of the old VV posters think our post are boring and insipid and lack focus. Some of the new bunker posters think the older posters are mean, cliquish and dismissive. You are all correct. All I care about is that you all shine more light on Tony’s reporting.

            • AsthmaticDwarf

              Please don’t be an infrequent poster, NiAbk. You have a lot to offer. :-)

            • noseinabk

              Thanks AD. The grammar police keep me from posting. have had many nights pacing the floor, grumbling, Wtf and sitting on my hands waiting for others to vocalize what I am thinking. As a never in, it amazes me how many times I have had to swallow the lump in my throat and keep reading. I am a mom of three and I think that’s why I have such a hard time with all the cos BS. If you were one of mine, I would drag you back by your fucking earlobe and your siblings would be kicking your ass all the way.

            • SandiCorrena

              I don’t remember Tony deputising any grammer police either! And they better not come over here because after how Nola was treated by Espi I’ll cut a b#&%h. 😉 you comment to your hearts content!

            • AsthmaticDwarf

              Forget the grammar police! The Bunker needs the Ideas !!
              If what you thinkin’ not being posted, post post post !!!
              You hear me?!?
              K ~

            • KJP in Portland

              Hang around NOLA. You’re one of my faves. Just someone’s bad night.

            • Natalia M

              genius.

            • SandiCorrena

              You are not in charge of what we want to see or share.

            • SandiCorrena

              You are not in charge of what we want to see or share.

            • Francis

              But that’s his line!

            • TXCowgirl

              No worries.

            • noseinabk

              No, do not take it down. For any lurkers it may be new info. One of the best things about the bunker is the links to information. You never know what will grab a persons attention and make them dig in.

            • EnthralledObserver

              AGREE!!! I haven’t clicked on it yet, so I have no idea if I’ve even seen it or not.

            • SandiCorrena

              NO but he should STFU!

            • KJP in Portland

              I just thought that as you posted it…oh what a coincidence Sandi!

            • AsthmaticDwarf

              Oh—kay, Espi !! Don’t hold back now ~

            • Espiando

              I was holding back.

            • AsthmaticDwarf

              L o L !!!
              <3 to you, Espi ~

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              But how do you really feel about it?

            • Espiando

              I feel quite superior to anyone who is on Twitter or Facebook. And I am.

            • AsthmaticDwarf

              You are crankin’ on all cylinders tonite, Espi !!

            • Espiando

              Close. I’m cranky on all cylinders.

            • noseinabk

              Nola may have not known it was old but the first thing I look at on the anon vids is the date. I just assumed she knew it was old but was new to her. I will not hold it against our bunker newbies that they get exited at finding info that is new to them.
              I do not have a twitter account but will make a fake one just for the lulz. I do think your twitter account would be an awesome thing to behold.

            • Espiando

              My problem with Twitter is that I’m an old-school long-form writer. 140 characters gets me to roughly the first comma of the first sentence.

            • noseinabk

              I think you would overcome that 140 character block with admirable snark. Plus, unlike me you are not to0 lazy to create multiple accounts. I would enjoy seeing you post to the likes of Kirstie or Brodie. I do understand why you would not want a personal twitter. Even my 25 and 20 year old kids think its a sign of being a douche bag.( unless you are a public figure)

            • Espiando

              Nah, I’m too old of a dog to try new tricks when it comes to trolling. I don’t even use my multiple Diksuq accounts to troll over here.

            • ThetaBara

              So, don’t do it. People using this place like it was twitter is far more annoying to me than the existence of twitter, which, IIRC, is opt-in. Zoning solves a lot. If you don’t like it, don’t go there.

            • Dee Fogger

              Ok, I get you can be cranky but perhaps this is on point?

            • Jo

              Have to agree, twitter is bollocks, sorry for swearing folks.

            • noseinabk

              I am SHOCKED JO! Why? Why did you resort to using Boll*&%#@? SHAME!

            • Jo

              I don’t like twitter, sorry.

            • KJP in Portland

              I said last night. I think I set up an account like 3 years ago. I never used it. I use FB because all my family, friends, Navy buddies and school chums are on there. Twitter just seemed redundant to me. And, why do I need to tweet every time I go to the bathroom, or eat, or get laid…I mean, it just seemed redundant and stupid to me…remember I’m 51 and fairly tech-inclined, but I just didn’t see Twitter as being of any use to me.

              (I do wish I used it ONLY for giving Kirstie McHutt a hard time) ;p

            • Jo

              Thanks KPJ, didn’t realise twitter and bollocks was an offence word. Learn something new everyday :)

            • KJP in Portland

              I don’t think twitter is offensive, just not-for-me. Bollocks is “balls” in British, lol! or something like that (Commonwealth people feel free to correct me)

            • SandiCorrena

              You can follllow me

            • Francis

              Twitter is used by emergency response teams and in general is the fastest way of disseminating information in social media. It also does not expect that you use a personal identity to register.

            • KJP in Portland

              Oh the lulz…95% of Americans have to look ‘bollocks’ up! lol! 😀

            • SandiCorrena

              you’re just being nasty to a perfectly nice commenter and the link was nice especially if it helps anyone new coming by besides even vintage anonymous is sexy! I don’t recall Tony deputising you as HAIC; thank God social media is leaving you and your supposed superiority behind. NOLAGirl I <3 your posts!

            • KJP in Portland

              I hope she went to bed for the night. Maybe she was drinking. I never seen her like that. I like Espi normally. Beats the ____ out of me why she chose to be that way tonight. I hope it was just a bad day. The Bunker is very forgiving (I put several feet in my mouth in the past before I knew everyone semi-well enough).

            • SandiCorrena

              That’s so funny; I thought espi was a. “Little boy” because usually someone working so hard at being a big dick wants people to think they’ve got a big “bang” to back up their bark…… when we all know if you’ve got one you don’t have to bark….

            • KJP in Portland

              I’m sorry ya got 2 downies above. Espi is popular here and generally well-liked, but I’ve seen a couple of outburst nights. I’ve seen our longtimers come down on her before. I just hated to see NOLA get dissed on like that ’cause she didn’t know. It was pretty innocent and I don’t think the following several remarks were very called for.

              If I posted several remarks like that, I’d catch holy hell. I assure you.

              You’re good, Sandi. You know I wuvs ya! (((hugs)))

            • SandiCorrena

              I love ya right back; I don’t care if I have to wipe a little espi off my shoes-they’re nice shoes-I am way more concerned about NOLAGirl not being upset because her I’d give her my shoes to make her feel better. I have seen Espi be ugly before and apologize before; its tired and redundant. Someone said Espi has some health issues soooooooo maybe thats a good excuse but like I said I’m sick of her/his fallout like hurting NOLAGirl.

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              Espiando is a guy, and from his own admissions, he battles a form of Bipolar Disorder. From what I have seen, he mostly wins these struggles, as his posts are some of the funniest and most well thought-out I have seen here. Check his posts from earlier today, he had a really great thread about Marty Rathbun. On the flip side, he can be a jerk. His reaction to NOLAGirl was uncalled for, and I hope he can apologize tomorrow or whenever. But piling on Espiando right now will not resolve anything.

            • KJP in Portland

              I was just corrected on gender, Jimmy. Some weeks ago I thought a longtimer said was a female. Sorry to offend. I have it right, now.

            • Francis

              To be fair, a Twitter user’s opinion is only broadcast to people who choose to follow that person. It’s selective. I like the venue. I also like my followers, many of whom are not retards.

            • ThetaBara

              At least it’s topical, unlike the Red Sox or who is drinking coffee at the moment!
              There are a lot of new folks around here who do appreciate stuff like that.

          • Missionary Kid

            If you hit the down vote again, it will also go away. You can tell if it’s you who did it by the fact that the down vote is in red. If you have up voted something, the number appearing is in blue.

    • Jo

      Super sorry, thought we talking about twitter.

    • SandiCorrena

      <3 you – come back!!!!!!

    • ThetaBara

      Like no one else ever posts old videos? You even gave a disclaimer. It’s not you, it’s him.
      Also, what if posting it makes a difference to someone? No one is saying we shouldn’t stlll be raiding.
      Anyway, around here, we eat downvotes like candy!
      Have courage. have hope. We are all around you. 😉

  • V4Vacation

    I love these examination series with Atack, Hawkins, Myers, and the rest.

  • AsthmaticDwarf

    Another stellar article with Jon Atack: “Hubbard had been given phenobarbital for his ulcers, back in the Navy, so his affair with them lasted for at least twenty years.

    “In one lecture, Hubbard bemoaned his own addiction to phenobarbital, which he struggled with throughout the creation of both Dianetics and Scientology. His last attempt to procure this powerful barbiturate came in 1965, when he tried to fill a prescription signed “Dr Hubbard” at an East Grinstead pharmacy.”

    Phenobarbital, a barbiturate, is used to treat certain types of seizures: a crystalline barbiturate used as a hypnotic, sedative, and anticonvulsant.

  • Jimmy Threetimes

    O/T– Red Sox fans, is the game over yet? I didn’t see the final run being scored

    • KJP in Portland

      Cards won, 5-4. Ah well, I like the Cards too. Either way I won’t be unhappy. It aint LA, or NYY, or Atlanta…

      • Jimmy Threetimes

        I was J&Ding, I watched the end of the game and re-winded that final play maybe 10 times, he never touched the plate. That was the craziest AND the worst World Series baseball play I’ve seen in a long while. Wtf kind of slide was that, Molina? Then Craig scores on an obstruction call. Wild.

        http://deadspin.com/cardinals-win-game-three-on-walkoff-obstruction-1452852658?autoplay=1

        • easily_amused

          He definitely didn’t touch the plate! That is going to be a long talked about call.

      • TXCowgirl

        And on the subject of a different sport, may I just say OOOOOOOOOOO!

        • KJP in Portland

          Is my dirty mind thinking of THAT sport? Or which sport?

          • TXCowgirl

            Football!

            • KJP in Portland

              OOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

              GO DUCKS! 42-14 over UCLA (roflmao!)

              They’re a steamroller!

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              Actually watched most of that game, UCLA is soft. It’s terrible that Alabama is going to play Oregon or FSU in the championship, because the ACC or the PAC-10/12/14/whatever are deemed so much stronger than the Big Ten.

              At the end of the regular season, THE Ohio State Buckeyes will be *two years undefeated* and have the best claim at a title shot against Bama. Will the Buckeyes win? Maybe not, Alabama is basically a professional team, but they at least deserve to play for the last BCS title.

  • Simi Valley

    This may be a little non sequitur, but … fuck you, OSA!

    • noseinabk

      Sorry Simi but Davey is having a hard time keeping up with the bunker posts. He cant trust anyone to read and copy to him, so he needs to do it all.
      WEE DAVE may not be at the big event because he will be way to busy at the bunker.

      • Simi Valley

        If anyone should be coughing up a chunky donation to Tony, it’s him.

        • KJP in Portland

          We all donate what we can. Tony is the point-man for pulling this godzilla of a cult down!

      • ThetaBara

        There’s always SignsOfSuccess, heh.

    • KJP in Portland

      I like you, Simi! Consider this my ‘welcome’…and you’re cute as a bug too. Don’t worry, all the ladies here know I get a bit cheeky.

      But you’re right at home with “Fuck you, (insert OSA, IAS, CoB$, Davey, etc.)!”

      When you get time, see “Missionary Kid’s” (lists) with all the names we’ve created for all things Scientology. You’ll pee yourself laughing!

      Again, welcome aboard the warmest, friendliest, safest place on the Internet!

      • Simi Valley

        I’m a New Yorker so gotta drop the f-bomb every now and then…. So where is this list thing?

        • KJP in Portland

          Oh gosh, where is MK? he posts the list and moves it up every 10 days or so, to a newer Ortega post-day.

          CAN ANYONE HERE DIRECT ‘Simi’ to MK’s lists? I’d have to dig for them. He has about 4 of them.

          MK (should) be here at this time on a Saturday. It’s only 10:30 for you, him and I. I’m in PDX, he’s around Sacto., and I assume you’re out in Simi…

          We’ll get the roadmap shortly and point you there.

        • Missionary Kid

          I was away from the computer just about all day. Here they are: http://tonyortega.org/2013/10/12/tomkat-project-in-los-angeles-heres-your-chance-to-help-the-show-get-to-tinseltown/ I have some other lists, too, but those are the main ones. Set Disqus to Newest.

          I’m going to keep those lists there for a while. I just go back and edit them when a new nickname or sharp comment comes up on the bunker. I usually don’t give attribution, but I’m going to when there is a non-avatar name used.

        • Missionary Kid

          I forgot to say, set Disqus to newest. I edited that in.

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      Btw, looking forward to seeing your interview. Any idea when it’ll be posted?

      • Simi Valley

        Waiting on the editor to cough up the finished product … should be any day now.

        • Jimmy Threetimes

          Glad to hear that, and I suspect it’ll be well received here in this bunker here :)

  • Charles Chadwick

    The Office of Servile Accountants

    • KJP in Portland

      I’m an accountant and I AM NOT servile…lol! j/k!

  • KJP in Portland

    NOLA…talk to me. NOLA…TALK TO ME! (several of us want to yack it up with you being here).

    • KJP in Portland

      NOLA…get back here. We love ya. I love ya. Come here, it’s Saturday night dammit. I have a great big (((((((H U G))))) for YOU.

    • noseinabk

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxvlKp-76io Answer or I will send this song to you everyday!

  • KJP in Portland

    Calling MK…Calling MK…

  • KJP in Portland

    Simi…check this page out…his list should be there. I looked back at his posts (we ‘follow’ each other). It looks like the OCTOBER 12th page. The link came up funky. Best I could do on Disqus :)

    Oh yeah…it’s there…RIGHT AT THE TOP!

    http://tonyortega.org/2013/10/12/tomkat-project-in-los-angeles-heres-your-chance-to-help-the-show-get-to-tinseltown/

  • SciWatcher

    You know you’ve been reading too much Scientology when…

    You wake up in the morning with “we stand tall” going through your head.

    • KJP in Portland

      Yeah…they stand tall for the mug-shots that are a’comin’!

    • Natalia M

      Thank goodness I’m not the only one!

      • Natalia M

        That is a joke but scarily close to the truth. Do you think they have a 12 step program to get control “looney-cult-watching-ism”

        • SciWatcher

          Hmm, not that I know of…but maybe the “church” has a way to deal with the “looney-cult-watching-ism” engram

          • Natalia M

            yike!

  • TXCowgirl

    It’s been a cathartic night here in the Bunker. Tucking in for some restorative REM. Until the morn, my friends, “Sleep well and dream of large women.”

    • KJP in Portland

      Oooooh! Now you’re talking! Sweet dreams! xoxoxo

      • TXCowgirl

        Name the movie…

        • Natalia M

          The Princess Bride = the best movie ever!

          • TXCowgirl

            And the winner is Natalia! Your prize is a taxidermied ROUS! Or not.

            • KJP in Portland

              No style points for me? :((((

            • TXCowgirl

              You get points for free styling, but my ruling stands.

            • TXCowgirl

              Nighty night.

            • Natalia M

              g’night

            • KJP in Portland

              Night Night!

            • Natalia M

              “Rodents of unusual size? I don’t believe they exist.”

            • TXCowgirl

              Oh, but they do. They are related to an endangered species: the Miscavigite.

        • KJP in Portland

          Err…I just like pleasingly plump and ‘curvy’ women?

  • Sydjazz

    This quote came to mind

    • KJP in Portland

      Every org should have that hanging over its entrance!

  • ParticleMom

    I have been wondering lately if LRH had the MTHFR genetic mutation due to his reaction to nitrous oxide. Administration of nitrous oxide can cause severe mental confusion and even death for those who have MTHFR.

    https://sites.google.com/site/marylandlyme/mthfr/mthfr-nit

    Untreated MTHFR can cause all kinds of psychological and physical ailments including bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, hypothyroidism, etc. Too much niacin can make it worse, as niacin uses up the methyl groups that are all too precious to one with MTHFR.

    • DodoTheLaser

      I had to click the links and read just to make sure that it’s not a joke re: “LRH had the MTHFR”.
      Still laughing, mostly about my first reaction to MTHFR syndrom! Sorry.

      • EnthralledObserver

        I haven’t clicked the link yet… you mean MTHFR doesn’t mean what I assumed it meant? lol

        • DodoTheLaser

          It appears that MTHFR can have 2 meanings! lol indeed!

          • KJP in Portland

            Oh that’s funny!

            • EnthralledObserver

              A game I play with my kids often is making words out of car number plate letters. In Queensland we typically have three letters and three numbers… so it’s a game I’m good at. Extra points (if playing with adults) for swear words.. lol 😉

            • DodoTheLaser

              I wonder if MTHFR syndrom can be also mentioned in the legal arena to slow down any of the current litigations. Sounds legit.

            • EnthralledObserver

              They’ll try anything…
              Your honour… I couldn’t help it… it’s a disease I have. I’m just truly a Mother Fucker… *sniff* And if you thought I screwed them… then just imagine how my own Mother feels.

            • DodoTheLaser

              Hopefully, IAS money will be channeled to help all the sufferers of MTHFR plague!

            • KJP in Portland

              I think their delay tactics are so well know by now with judges, that those tactics aren’t going to be very successful this time. Scientology: your place in the Sun is about up, mateys.

            • DodoTheLaser

              True fact.

            • EnthralledObserver

              My friend’s car had the number plate FKU… that was a great one… I really enjoyed pointing that out to her – and I didn’t even have to ‘say’ it – I just suggested she think about it, and she worked it out on her own.

      • DodoTheLaser

        I also wonder if MTHFR is contagious, because RTC appears to suffer from it too.
        Remember – “Untreated MTHFR can cause all kinds of psychological and physical ailments..”

      • ParticleMom

        I guess I should have explained it. It does sound like a joke :)

        • DodoTheLaser

          Nah, you did fine! I actually learned something new, thanks to you.
          And yes, coincidentally it’s also funny, which is a bonus! :)

  • Sarah James

    I just wanted to stop by before bed. I had a happy day today. I had lunch by the river today and enjoyed every miniute of the water the trees and sun. I wish everyone here a day like I was given today. Night.

    • DodoTheLaser

      Wonderful, Sarah! Thank you! Sweet dreams!

    • KJP in Portland

      Goodnight Sarah!

    • Casabeca

      How lovely!

  • KJP in Portland

    Hailing our British friends…anyone up yet?

    • Jo

      Hey KPJ just sneaking off to bed, should be getting up in a few hours, what time is it there?

      • KJP in Portland

        It’s 12:30 am here…Sweet dreams and see you tomorrow!

        • Jo

          It’s 7.30am here, I’m gonna suffer today, dam XB360. Sweet dreams too.

          • SciWatcher

            You’re JUST now going to bed? Damn. And it’s only 7:30 (7:50 now) because we set the clocks back! So, it’s more like 8:30!

    • SciWatcher

      Been up for HOURS, haha. Go to bed!

      • KJP in Portland

        I got a little time yet, just 1 am here!

        • EnthralledObserver

          Urgh… I can’t do to 1am very often… it just kills me all these late night. Unfortunately it’s so hard to pull oneself away from these comment boards – so fun and often enlightening – and before you know it 4 hours have ticked by… *groan*

          • KJP in Portland

            I got up late, and it’s kinda fun being a night owl occasionally! I’ll be around another hour or two. How’s lunchtime in Oz?

            • EnthralledObserver

              It’s 6pm here… and I’ll be on and off – have to get kids bathed and fed and ready for bed as back to school tomorrow.

            • KJP in Portland

              Feels weird being 6pm Sunday there… It’s a big World!

            • EnthralledObserver

              Yes it is…

            • easily_amused

              KJP, you are such a rebel. It’s Cher…how’s the new job?

            • KJP in Portland

              It’s touch and go. I’m looking for a better one, just to cover my arse! Good to see you! (((hugs))). I’ve always been a rebel, otherwise I could’ve been president of a company by now :(

            • easily_amused

              Nice to see you too. Actually, it would be more accurate to say nice talking to you because I’m at the Bunker all the time and “see you”, I just don’t post very often. Awe, I’m sorry it’s touch and go. At least it isn’t nights anymore. If you lived closer I would be able to point you in the direction of a few jobs. :(

            • KJP in Portland

              I’m applying at several places and sending resumes out by the score. I’ll be okay. I promise! And yeah, it’s good to see you here tonight! (it’s been kinda slow)

            • easily_amused

              Ok, good. You are much to sweet to be anything but good. And I noticed it was a bit slow…

            • KJP in Portland

              You’re too kind to me (((hugs)))

            • easily_amused

              Nah, just being honest. You are always very sweet to everyone here. Very compassionate

            • EnthralledObserver

              Agree! 😀

            • KJP in Portland

              I find it to be a very comfortable and warm place. I’m just being myself and I love to chat about the topic of the day or just talk with other likeminded people like you and EO. It’s nice to be appreciated and I return it as much as I can! *blush* (((hugs)))

            • easily_amused

              The Bunker is a pretty special place. It’s pretty amazing the friendships and support that are fostered here. I don’t know of any place other place quite like it.

            • KJP in Portland

              Are you doing well? I see the moniker-change now. New avvy too!

            • easily_amused

              Very well, thank you. How are you? After I had to change my original moniker I choose one that didn’t really seem to fit me so a deleted it and made new one. How

            • KJP in Portland

              Sorry you had to change it. You don’t have to say why, I’m sure it was for a good reason. I’m good otherwise and I’m happy to see you’re doing good too!

            • easily_amused

              Ha! I don’t mind telling you why. I have a little shit nephew who I have made the mistake of leaving FB before and he posted interesting things as me. I made the mistake of leaving disqus open and he was messing around on my computer with “that look” and I played it better safe than sorry and closed the account. Wasn’t taking any chances.

            • KJP in Portland

              Little rascal…sounds like my boy. But I break his fingers when he gets near my keyboard. He has his own laptop. No reason to get around my stuff, lol! I hope you gave your nephew hell for it!

            • easily_amused

              Of course I gave him hell and then I got even. :)

            • KJP in Portland

              Oh my! Lol! Auntie Cher givin’ it back to him!

            • easily_amused

              Lol! I did indeed. I couldn’t very well let him get away with that unscathed. :)

            • KJP in Portland

              I like it. You have a great sense of humor. A plus for you!

        • EnthralledObserver

          Oh, and MK’s email still isn’t working for me for whatever reason… will have to go get some account and try that way instead.

          • Missionary Kid

            I’m willing to bet that you left the spaces in the email address. Here, let’s try this. The email address is skepticalmissionarrykid-gmail-com replace the first dash with “@”
            and the second with “.”

            I believe that what you probably did was left some spaces in the email address. There are never any spaces. You will often see the characters “_” and “-” instead of a space in email addresses because a space is not legal in an email address.

            How do I know? I’ve made the mistake myself.

        • SciWatcher

          I haven’t been up until 1 in I don’t know how long! I get tired around 8, in bed by 9. I know, pathetic. My daughter makes fun of me all the time.

  • DodoTheLaser

    Suggestion for Tom Cruise’ next wife audition:

    • Natalia M

      or

      • Natalia M

        In his DREAMS, huh?

      • KJP in Portland

        The man don’t have any sex drive anyway, so why bother ;P

        • Sydjazz

          If he liked girls

          • KJP in Portland

            Bwahahaha, touche!

          • Natalia M

            Sh#t! These two make ME like girls

            • DodoTheLaser

              :)

            • EnthralledObserver

              lol… I hear you. :p

      • DodoTheLaser

        Yeah, especially if Jennifer will be in “The Master” sequel: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1560747/

      • George Diaz

        How about a handsome young stud, instead? He could even get John Travolta’s assistance in this regard. I’m sure JT would be willing to help his buddy TC with this; don’t you think?

    • KJP in Portland

      LOL!

    • ThetaBara

      Nooooooooo! She deserves better!

  • 0tessa

    Quote from an article, appearing in one of our national newspapers:
    “The real enemy of belief sytems is not atheism, but their own intolerance.” Note: ‘their own’ added by me.
    This very interesting article describes how any ideology or belief can turn into a cult. Scientology is, of course, also mentioned as a ‘shining’ example.
    The discussion about manipulation of people by sects has become once more actual because of the publication of a scientific study on cults and sects in this country. Recommendations are made to improve possibilities to help victims.

    • DodoTheLaser

      Link?

      • KJP in Portland

        Yes, see if you can post it here!

      • 0tessa

        I’m afraid a link is of no use, because it is in Dutch. I will translate the article instead and post it here.

        • ThetaBara

          That would be fantastic. Thanks!

  • KJP in Portland

    Well, indeed it’s late and my eyes are falling shut! I’ll be back around noon PDT and enjoy the Sunday Funnies. Dodo, Cher, EO and Sci…you all have a good night! (((hugs to all))). Goodnight!

    • EnthralledObserver

      Night… see you tomoz.

      • NOLAGirl

        Thank you for last night EO. :)

    • easily_amused

      Good night

    • NOLAGirl

      Thanks for your support last night KJP. I did see your comments. ; )

  • Deeana

    RE: Jolly’s article. Marty Rathbun, L. Ron Hubbard and Joseph Smith? Fine. But Emerson? I don’t think so!

  • Dorothy Gale

    Here’s the comment I posted at: http://therevealer.org/archives/18575

    “Many people who become Scientologists were once seekers of something beyond everyday human existence. When they join Scientology they are indoctrinated to look no further. If they obey the command, they must give up on all further seeking and become dedicated to Scientology exclusively, 200%. Some people leave (CoS) Scientology, and if they can maintain enough distance for a long enough time, they might regain their self-awareness and pick up where they left off, resuming the journey they were forced to give up. Marty is such a person. I wasn’t sure how things would pan out for him. I’m just glad to hear he’s back on track. Becoming immersed in Scientology is a lot like navigating a long underground tunnel. Yes the way out is the way through. And the way THROUGH is the way OUT. Some just never make it through. Welcome back Marty. You’ve now earned my respect for what it’s worth.”

  • Jesse Prince

    Concerning L Ron’s continued drug use: Hubbard’s personal physician was a person named Gene Denke. Gene Denke was like the Conrad Murray for Michael Jackson in that he prescribed whatever drug L Ron wanted for many years. Contrary to common belief among those still faithful to corporate Scientology , in his latter years L Ron was nothing more than a disabled, addle minded adult that needed constant care. That he continued his “I’m the Devil” persona to his death confirms the state of his mental health.

  • John Andra

    I think the mistake of many independent Scientologists is to believe that while David Miscavige has made Scientology into a horrible mess, that Scientology was in good shape when LRH was around. Not true. Scientology was always fraught with problems, and Hubbard was perhaps even more messed up in the head the little David.