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Claire Headley: Scientology’s Own Rules Prove That it Uses “Disconnection” To Split Up Families

Up_The_BridgeClaire Headley is taking us on our journey to train as Scientologists. She and her husband Marc were Sea Org workers who escaped from Scientology’s International Base in 2005. She spent years working with Scientology’s “tech,” and was trusted to oversee the auditing of Tom Cruise. Go here to see the first part in this series.

Claire, you wanted to interrupt our journey up the Bridge this week?

CLAIRE: That’s right. Once again, Scientology has managed to create public uproar with its bald-faced lies, denying that it engages in the forced disconnection of families.

THE BUNKER: Yes, the church seems to have stepped in it again. Following Leah Remini’s defection, news emerged that her Scientology friends were being forced to “disconnect” from her, but the church denied that forced disconnection exists. We asked our readers to respond, and we were quickly sent many personal stories of families being ripped apart.

CLAIRE: Disconnection has done more harm for Scientology, I think, than any other practice or person. That’s just my opinion. But it’s one of those things that no one in the real world can understand. It’s hard to imagine a “religion” that breaks up families left, right, and center. Yes, there are similarities in one or two other groups, but Scientology specializes in ruthless and outright leverage of its members, with disconnection as their heavy-handed weapon of choice. And there are thousands of destroyed families as a result. I’d guess there are more distraught family members who have suffered disconnection than there are Sea Org members at this point.

THE BUNKER: A strong statement, to be sure. We’d estimate Sea Org membership at about 3 to 4 thousand.

CLAIRE: If you don’t mind, I thought it might be interesting to do a review of some policies on disconnection from the Scientology ethics book. And I think readers will see for themselves just exactly how manipulative Scientology “PR” is.

Scientologists love to quote Hubbard policy. I know from personal experience. I’ve walked in those shoes.

So here we go. Please keep in mind this is by no means a complete study of the subject. I just happen to have the ethics book in front of me.

These days, a “suppressive person” is anyone who doesn’t agree with Scientology leader David Miscavige. But according to policy, you have to commit certain Crimes and Suppressive Acts to be declare an SP.

Crimes:

Being or becoming a potential trouble source without reporting it or taking action.

High Crimes (Suppressive Acts):

Suppressive acts are defined as actions or omissions undertaken to knowingly suppress, reduce, or impede Scientology or Scientologists.

These consist of publicly departing Scientology or committing suppressive acts.

Any PTS who fails to either handle or disconnect from the SP who is making him or her a PTS is, by failing to do so, guilty of a suppressive act.

A suppressive declare order upon a person or group and all of the conditions inherent within it remain in force until the order has been officially cancelled by an authorized and published Church issue.

And later:

The validity of this policy is borne out by the fact that the US government raids and other troubles were instigated by wives, husbands, or parents who were actively suppressing a Scientologist or Scientology, or who were acting under the influences of persons or agencies who had deliberately misinformed them regarding Scientology. The suppressed Scientologist did not act in good time to avert the trouble by handling the antagonistic family member.

No money particularly may be accepted as a donation or loan from a person who is “family” to a suppressive person and therefore a potential trouble source. There is no source of trouble in Scientology’s history greater than this one for frequency and lack of attention.

THE BUNKER: Some help with terms for the new people around here: In Scientology, if you are judged to be failing the church in some way (even for something as trivial as having a head cold, for example), you are labeled a “potential trouble source,” and it is assumed that you are connected to a person who has evil thoughts about the church — a “suppressive person.” If you don’t cut that person out of your life, you may be labeled an “SP” yourself, and then everyone else will have to “disconnect” from you or risk being labeled SPs themselves. In that second example, the church is saying that it was raided by the government (1977, FBI) because its people didn’t root out SPs well enough, and wives didn’t turn in husbands, sons didn’t turn in parents, etc., like they should have. Amazing.

CLAIRE: I can guarantee you that these rules do not apply to Tom Cruise. I’m sure David Miscavige has given some excuse as to why it’s OK that Tom stays in touch with Katie Holmes even after she very publicly departed Scientology. And I can assure you his donations are still forthcoming.

If evidences of disconnection are given, the Committee of Evidence findings and recommendations and the convening authority, once the findings are duly approved, must remove the label of potential trouble source from the Scientologist.

Any HCO Secretary may receive evidences of disconnection or disavowal and, on finding them to be bona fide, must place copies of such evidences in the ethics file and in the Central files folders of all persons named in them.

The disconnecting person then ceases to be a potential trouble source…

More from the same policy below:

The enturbulence of the society around us is fantastic. There is no just civil law left, really. It is that lawless and disorderly condition in the society about us which makes it hard for us to work. Shortly we will be even more powerful. That power must not be lawless or we will have anarchy and dismay, enough to stop our growth.

Yep, David Miscavige truly nailed it. Not only has he stopped their growth, but he’s managed to shrink the movement more than ever in history. Unprecedented shrinkage.

And then there’s this from the section “How to Disconnect”:

To fail or refuse to disconnect from a suppressive person not only denies the PTS case gain, it is also supportive of the suppressive — in itself a suppressive act. And it must be so labeled.

The technology of disconnection is essential in the handling of PTSes. It can and has saved lives and untold trouble and upset. It must be preserved and used correctly.

The one sentence that Scientology is using to justify their lie about forced disconnection is the following:

The term “disconnection” is defined as a self determined decision made by an individual that he is not going to be connected to another. It is a severing of a communication line.

As you can see from the above quotes I’ve provided, and I’m sure from the huge response on this subject, there is simply nothing that is “self-determined” about any of the many examples of disconnection that I’ve seen. Saying that something is “self-determined” simply does not make it so.

THE BUNKER: What you’re showing in these examples is that Scientology tells the public that a member has a “choice” about disconnection, but in practice that choice is no choice at all: either disconnect from your mother or father or brother or son who has been labeled a suppressive person, or you will be labeled one as well. And there goes all the time and money you’ve invested in the church — which for some who grew up in it is all they’ve known.

CLAIRE: To end this on a personal note, when I escaped Scientology in January 2005, I was able to have a small amount of e-mail correspondence with my mother before she disconnected from me. These e-mails were handed over to the Office of Special Affairs (Scientology’s intelligence wing) and were produced by church lawyers in our lawsuits.

I’ve excerpted some applicable sections of those messages from my mother below:

Kirsty called for advice because she received your e-mail. Of course she has been instructed that she cannot communicate with you. Hugh said I should let Chantal know which I did and Kirsty will need to forward your message to Chantal without reading it, per Chantal’s instructions.

(Kirsty is my sister, Hugh is my stepfather, Chantal is the Sea Org member who told my parents and siblings I was declared a suppressive person the day after I escaped.)

Would it work if I checked in with Bernie once in a while? I am frankly not sure whether that would be a violation or not although I know it really wouldn’t be OK. But it isn’t direct communication….This e-mail address is private — for the moment anyway — but the one Kirsty gave you is not, nor the work one of course….I will tell Hugh all when he is back and will have to have no further communication with you. Perhaps I am blind to the ramificiations of what I am doing here. He said this morning that they wouldn’t let him back on Solo NOTs if they thought any of the family were in communication with you. I hadn’t gotten that from the issues….There is very little privacy in my life. All of this is very clandestine for me. I am not letting the kids know. It would be a very bad example for them. I am not letting Hugh know. That would not work. I love you very much darling.

Honestly I can’t tell you how upsetting and hurtful it was to be handed this correspondence in deposition. On the other hand, I had no doubt the evil of the Scientology organization right at that moment.

What I just don’t understand is why Scientology insists on lying about disconnection.

They should either admit to it or stop doing it, but lie about it? Who do they think they’re kidding?

Any intelligent person in today’s world will simply Google “disconnection,” a search that yields thousands of examples of the destruction of families.

On a separate note, in case you’re interested, we finally have our site up: www.stopdisconnection.com.

THE BUNKER: Thank you, Claire. Another punch to the gut in this great series.

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on July 23, 2013 at 07:00

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  • FLUNK_101

    Thank you Claire for your lovely contribution to Tony’s blog.

  • Observer

    I hope this latest flap finally drives home to the wog world at large that Scientology isn’t some wacky celebrity cult. It’s a vicious, hateful, destructive money machine with blood and shattered lives on its hands.

    • AnonymousSP

      You nailed it. Any ex-member is doing far more for humankind by leaving than they ever did with all the years and money they poured into the wacky, vicious, hateful cult.

      • richelieu jr

        People do more for humankind by punching random people in the tit than all of Scientology has or will ever do for humankind.

        • Sherbet

          Ouch!

        • 1subgenius

          Funny. You are on fire!

          Reminds me of a Nellie McKay line:

          “I punched a man on Broadway,

          Just to watch him cry.”

          From the totally smoking song “Identity Theft”

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JR7xeUE92w

          • richelieu jr

            I’d never heard that before! Great stuff!

    • And Kirstie is actually unwittingly helping out in her own “special” way too. If this monstrous Hill 10 flapping flap doesn’t make Scientology pure poison in Hollywood from here on out I don’t know what will.

  • Sunny Sands

    “Perhaps I am blind to the ramificiations of what I am doing here.”
    Unfortunately, true for most who disconnect.

    • monkeyknickers

      So true Sunny.

      I’m trying to figure out a way to forgive the people who have their heads that deep in the sand. I want to be a better person, but this particular feature of this cartoon religion has been a real bottleneck in my humanitarian improvement goals.

      Being brainwashed – fine, I get that.

      But abandoning you CHILD? Your mother or father or sister or brother? Your best friend?

      Fuck that.

      • Bella Legosi

        It is those like you Monkey is why I grin and bear being called “crazy” for proactively teaching those around me what I know about this cult. If my own experience doesn’t suffice, yours DOES!

        And I totally feel ya on the “bottleneck in my humanitarian improvement goals.” There are few things I really don’t tolerate and am vocal about and Co$ is one of them

    • 1subgenius

      Yet recognizing being blind.
      There are none so blind as those that WILL (willfully) not see.

  • monkeyknickers

    I have a gorgeous little 4 year old monkey curled up and snoozing against my belly at the moment because of this “non-existent” policy. She doesn’t even ASK about her mother anymore. (my sister).

    Claire . . . . If I read that from my mother, I would be destroyed. I simply canNOT imagine how you picked yourself up and moved on.

    The most egregious part here is that this whole scientology thing is complete, utter, made-up bullshit. It’s a joke.

    But I guess disconnection is the punchline.

    • Chrissie

      “I have a gorgeous little 4 year old monkey curled up and snoozing against my belly at the moment because of this “non-existent” policy. She doesn’t even ASK about her mother anymore. (my sister).”

      Wait.. did I read that right? Your sister gave up her 4 yr old?

      • monkeyknickers

        Her nearly 3 year old. Her darling, perfect, smart-as-a-whip little one.

        I’ve been trying to pry my sister out of that circus for more than a year now. When I get her, I’m gonna hug her ’til she can’t breathe. Then I’m gonna smack the ever-loving shit out of her.

        • Chrissie

          Thankfully she has you =)

          • monkeyknickers

            I suppose that remains to be seen (if she’s thankful I mean). 🙂 A broke single pregnant musician is hardly a maternal prize.

            I DO come up with fun games tho.

            Last night we did Shrinky Dinks.

            IT RULED.

            🙂

            • Bella Legosi

              Shrinky Dinks are still around?????? Or is this some home recipe? I remember doing those with my mom! It kinda sucked, cuz I was not allowed to go near the oven, or the shrinky dinks until they cooled. But, wow………thanks for making me take a trip back to the freaking late 80’s Monkey 😛

            • monkeyknickers

              Girl . . . go to Michael’s and ask for the Shrinky Dink paper. Not only is it still around, you can get blank sheets and trace WHATEVER you want.

              Last night Ash and I did Shrinky Dinks of paleolithic sea animals like Dunkleosteus.

              Yes, I am that annoying person who makes her niece watch nature and science specials. Frankly she has little choice.
              But in my defense, she’s glued to the screen. 🙂

            • Bella Legosi

              Niiiiiice!

              I subjected by nieces to some Charlie Chaplin a week ago on Netflix and they actually liked it! I had to tell them of course that what one of them was watching was something really really old! The baby really got into it tho!

              Science is a good thing at a young age Monkey! You are doing right by them!

            • monkeyknickers

              Well she doesn’t have a choice. We don’t have TV in LA (tho we CERTAINLY have it here, christ that thing is ALWAYS ON :(( )

              Okay that’s not entirely true.

              We have to do the Single Ladies vid and dance every day as to avoid 4 year old indian volcanos erupting.

            • Missionary Kid

              Chaplain was a great storyteller. Show them The Kid. That’s a story of someone loving a child.

            • Bella Legosi

              YES! That is definitely on my must see list for them! I do believe Netflix has every Chaplin film available (some of his earlier works and film have been lost 🙁 ) My niece who is almost 3 had to realize that what she was watching wasn’t the CGI cartoon crap she watches all the time and took a min or two to just watch and pay attention to what she was seeing. That is kinda why I introduced it to her. I really think many of these “educational” and cartoon programs really retard a kids thinking in some ways. The baby was locked on it tho. The music is what caught her attention and then I noticed she wasn’t paying any attention to anything other then the screen. I don’t see attention spans like that in babies. When I go back over I shall most definately put on The Kid for them!

              The oldest is still too young to really appreciate Supernatural 🙂 so I have to wait a few more years. However, my best friends kid LOVES that show since I introduced her to it at age 5ish. Surprisingly, she caught on pretty quick as to who and what was going on (I did have to explain some of the finer plot points, but after that she was good to go. My best friend HATES me that I got her kid into that show! 😛 )

              By the way Lost Cristianitys has had me locked and gripped for the past couple days. I finally got to the part of the book where he deals with Gnosticism and all of its forms! I love it! I got thru half of Misquoting Jesus and have not started, Peter, Paul, and Mary yet! I am trying Kid! I now know why you asked why I had such a distaste for the King James Bible. I was brought up to believe that that version of the bible was actually quite heretical. Now, I know that Paul (not Peter’s) gospels were in fact the earliest ones written (of course there really is no way of actually telling since no original manuscripts survive!) I love them and just wanted to let you know how much I have enjoyed these books recently!

            • Missionary Kid

              You’re welcome. It’s amazing how childhood prejudices can influence one in later life. Can you see now how important it is to or not to inculcate a child? That’s what your Catholic upbringing did. You missed a lot of great English. Yes, many of the terms are now obsolete and meanings have changed, but it’s a great education.

              I grew up with the KJV, and I really learned a lot about the English language from it. Shakespeare also gave me an education. I certainly don’t believe that it is the word of god more than any other language, but it was done so that the people could have access.

              It took the Catholics centuries to do the same. As a result of that translation, the Protestant branch of Christianity splintered as everyone started to interpret it for themselves.

              My viewpoint now is that it’s a series of stories that were written for a bronze-age society. They have many good things to follow for modern life, but also a lot of others that are simply rules that are either to enforce conformity, or to Keep Christianity or Judaism Working, or simply obsolete.

              The reason that Charlie Chaplain is so good to watch is that what he did was pantomime, but speaking with the script. You can read a lot from his body language.

              His movie, The Great Dictator, was an incredible satire on Hitler and Mussolini, and it was done well before we ever entered WWII. It’s because of that movie, he was branded a Jew by Nazis and white suprematists. In spite of his love for this country, he got caught up in the red scare of the 1950s, and he left for Switzerland.

            • Robert Eckert

              “Hundreds of years later, in the late Devouring Period, fish became obnoxious. Clamosaurs and oysterettes appeared as appetizers. Trailerbikes, chiggerbites, and mosqueetos collided aimlessly, in the dense gas.”

            • John P.

              PBS ruled in my childhood home, 50 years ago. I turned out OK — no criminal convictions, no restraining orders filed by ex’s, and may yet turn out to be a contributing member of society if I can figure out what I want to do with my life once I leave Global Capitalism HQ.

              Ash and the fetii may have one of the coolest moms ever. Dunkleosteus shrinky dinks, indeed! One of the reasons I have a membership to the American Museum of Natural History is to be able to go see the dunkleosteus and all the other crazy fish in the hall of marine life. Sure, the dinosaurs on the 4th floor are great, but the fish on the first floor are underrated.

            • Zana

              I thought you were kidding about Dunkleosteus fish! Here’s what I found on YouTube. Whew! Scarey! http://youtu.be/NkFPQ9bOzdY

            • Sherbet

              Zana, did you read the comments to that video? Some DUMB people out there in the world.

            • Zana

              I just read the comments on the Dunkleosteus tape. So they faked the video? Why would they want to do that? I’m not dumb… just new to dinosaurs and that whole world.

            • Sherbet

              I was commenting on the way people write. No criticism of you, honest! I’m always surprised that people who are smart enough to figure out how to use the Internet are often poor communicators. Nix dumb. Just illiterate. Sorry!

              As Emily Litella often said, Never mind!

            • Zana

              Hi Sherbert! I just figured out how to start answering some of the comments that are made to my comments. I’m coming out of illiteracy-ville here with Discus. Totally enjoying this amazing blog.

              Thank you for your comments… not just to me, but on this site in general. I always stop to read what you have to say. 🙂

            • stanrogers

              The idea was to give some sort of scale to the critters (and their capabilities), beyond what one could do simply by “fleshing them out” in their actual contemporary environment. In the context of the full show (which makes it clear at several points that they are exploring a “what if” scenario), it makes a lot of sense, but I can see how it might cross the credibility threshold if you’re missing the context. The chain mail thing (which habitual nature show watchers would know from shark suits) has more meaning to most people than bite force numbers would, and the cage-ramming demonstrates what 5cm/2″ of head armour on a fish that size means.

              There was never any intent to deceive, but it’s a little like tuning in late to Orson Welles’ War of the Worlds, I guess, when you just see an isolated clip: your first instinct is to find a place to hide from the Martians.

            • monkeyknickers

              It’s a really cool series wherein they make a modern doc about animals that lived ages ago. Isn’t it AMAZING what they can do with 3d stuff now?!! I’m totally riveted.

              Cool huh Zana? I could watch that shit all day long. 🙂

            • Captain Howdy

              That was fake, but this I’m not so sure about.

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AqgLzqIg6E

            • Robert Eckert

              It’s based on a true story (LRH exhibiting the first of his “Clears”), and from the accounts I’ve read it did not depart very far from the facts.

            • monkeyknickers

              Doesn’t it make you shudder. Jesus.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Yes?

            • monkeyknickers

              RIGHT ANSWER.

              You win an infant Douglas!! What’s your address?

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              We are done with infants and now deal daily with teenagers. That’s enough enturbulation for any poor suppressive individual, even one of my awesome capabilities.

            • Missionary Kid

              One day, when my oldest was about 12 going on thirty, he came out of his bedroom, and grumbled. I made nice, and he went back in.

              He came out again and did the same thing. I made nice again.

              The third time he came out and did the same thing, I looked him straight in the eye and said, “It’s the divine right of every teenager to be an asshole. Just don’t expect people to like it.”

              Think I could make some money off of T-shirts and bumper stickers with that one?

            • monkeyknickers

              Why haven’t you printed up some already !!

            • monkeyknickers

              I’m sorry but once you win, you win. Prepare a bassinet.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              You love doing that, don’t you?

            • monkeyknickers

              FISH RULE.

              And . . . . don’t get me started on mollusks either, John. P. The cuttlefish BLOWS MY MIND.

              I actually think I’ve talked about the cuttlefish on this blog before. Huh. I’m so gonna get banned if I keep bringing up invertebrates and shit. 🙂

              And also I will trade you a personally delivered in-n-out burger – plus another for supermodel #1!! – if I can borrow your fancy membership card. Just saying.

            • Robert Eckert
            • FistOfXenu

              So hang on, you’re calling the FISH RULE? That’s like calling the Infield Fly Rule right? But it’s the 1 where if you can’t answer the question “what did this animal evolve from” you answer “fish” am I right?

            • WildaBeast

              My wife refuses to eat cuttlefish on account of they’re too smart. Ditto octopi. It makes ordering sushi way harder but I’m still with her on it. How does anything that lives that far underwater get THAT BRAINY…

            • monkeyknickers

              I love this rule.

              Except it must mean her diet is chicken and . . . 98% of the people who comment on YouTube. I have a GREAT recipe for idiot flambe, if she wants. 🙂

              Also:

              Sushi: wistful nom! 🙂

            • Poison Ivy

              John P (and any other New Yorkers or visitors this summer), catch the whale evolution exhibit at the AMNH before it’s gone – it’s truly terrific. Saw it before I headed Southward for the summer.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              You’re all backwards. Northerners go south for the WINTER. Duh….

              😉

            • CraftLass

              The world needs millions more moms and aunts and others like you! As far as I’m concerned, the only reason children are ever allowed in my life is so I can fill their heads with stars and bugs and sea creatures and fossils. Every kid under the age of 8 is a natural scientist, filled with curiosity about how the world works. It’s too bad that many teachers wreck that curiosity. You are not an annoying person, you are exactly the sort that should be raising children. Money can’t buy a parental figure who cares so much. 🙂

              Thanks for the tip on the Shrinky Dink paper, that’s so cool!

            • monkeyknickers

              You will SO dig it. I think it’s mostly in the schmaltzy scrapbooking section. Call ahead.

              But the shit is SO SO fun, Lass.

              And I hope my little half pint and the two noggins I got coming up will be impressed with the natural world. But I’ve been warned that they’ll do the exact opposite of what I do.

              Girls are so hard. !!! 🙂

            • CraftLass

              I spend a lot of time in that dratted section, I’m trying to scrapbook all of my adventures to space centers and rocket launches (photo albums just don’t cut it for such wonderful memories). So, digging through schmaltzy crap to find things I can stand has occupied more time than I’d like to admit… lol. Glad to have something really fun to look for on my next trip! I used to use the space between the pre-printed ones to draw my own Shrinky Dinks, can’t believe you can get whole blank sheets!!! Such freedom!

              As for the kids, well, one thing I have learned from hanging out with a lot of people with actual employment in professional sciences is that they all started out by watching nature shows, exploring the nature around them, and/or looking at the sky a whole lot as children. The ones who received encouragement are the ones who are the most confident in their passions and choices. So, whatever, yes, kids rebel – but those choices can take some pretty cool turns in time.

              My way of rebelling against my literary scholar of a mother, who loved few things more than dissecting other people’s writing, was to become a writer. Some rebel! lol She was also determined that I would be a sight-reading player of other people’s music, what that created was a prolific songwriter who struggles to learn anyone else’s music.

              In other words, exposure to good things will influence them and add value to their lives forever, even when they make different choices than you would make for them. 🙂

            • Missionary Kid

              Bill Nye the Science Buy was on ABC News as the person of the week. What a legacy!

              http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/person-week-bill-nye-science-guy-makes-comeback-19460909

            • CraftLass

              That’s so cool! Met him at a NASA event, had to confess I’ve never seen his show. Was kind of shocked by how much all those younger than me cheered when he walked in, but when he started speaking, it all came clear. The world needs more Bill Nyes!

            • Missionary Kid

              I’m too old to have ever seen Bill as a kid, but I really liked his approach. I’m older than him, but he’s a hero of mine.

            • CraftLass

              He’s quickly becoming one of mine, too. 🙂 Need to actually look up that show and watch some, though… lol

            • monkeyknickers

              Your post gives me hope, luv, and I am grateful. 🙂

              Oh! And! Typically the Shrinky Dink papers are on the end racks .. . . . . you will have a HUGE amount of fun. I just fake like I’m doing it for Ash’s benefit. It’s mostly for me. 🙂

            • CraftLass

              Awwwww, I’m so glad! My passion is getting people (especially female people) into STEM, so I think about these things a lot. And thanks again re: the Shrinky Dinks. Now I just need to find someone to drive me to suburbia… lol.

              You sound like my dad explaining why he spent so much on video games “for me.” 🙂

            • CraftLass

              Awwwww, I’m so glad! My passion is getting people (especially female people) into STEM, so I think about these things a lot. And thanks again re: the Shrinky Dinks. Now I just need to find someone to drive me to suburbia… lol.

              You sound like my dad explaining why he spent so much on video games “for me.” 🙂

            • q-bird

              so cool MK !

            • monkeyknickers

              ARMORED 33 FOOT FISH ARE AWESOME.

              Bigger than a bus!!

              Crazy shearing jaws!

              What’s not to love?

            • Poison Ivy

              She’ll thank you someday!

            • richelieu jr

              “Shrinky Dinks are still around??”

              Are you kidding? Two of them are running Scientology!

            • Bella Legosi

              lol

              *sighs* see…..I am a shrinky dink too and I found that very funny!

              T O U C H E

            • ThetaBara

              Speaking of Shrinky Dinks… I know you get a ruler to show the ratio of shrink to expect.
              I wonder if the Tale of Scientology could be shown with shrinky dinks to show how much they have SHRUNK…!

            • Bella Legosi

              Straight down and vertically challenged!

            • FistOfXenu

              ^^^

              New name: Dinky Miscavige

            • Peter

              By far the best appendage to attach to him that I’ve yet heard. Describes him physically, emotionally and intelectually all in one word. Nice work FOX!

            • monkeyknickers

              Ha!

            • cicely neville

              First laugh of the day! You’re good.

            • Captain Howdy

              The Cardinal is cooking with Crisco today.

            • monkeyknickers

              HAHAHA

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Someone said shrinky dinks?

              Do animated GIFs work? Refresh to find out.

            • shasha40

              That’s the Good thing about Love, it’s free, and the more you give the more comes back to you especially with kids and pets ! She has an Awesome auntie ! You’ll make it. Good Luck with your sister.

            • monkeyknickers

              Thanks shasha. Even without luck, I am committed to extracting her just so I can kick her ass.

              I dunno. It’s a family thing. 🙂

            • shasha40

              I have 3 sisters, ever now and then I have to knock sense into them too! It’s our duty. <3

            • monkeyknickers

              Word sistah!

            • stanrogers

              >> A broke single pregnant musician is hardly a maternal prize.

              I dunno. Sounds like a lottery win to me. Two of the best moms I know fit that description at one time or another. The only untoward side effect I’ve noticed is that “rebellion” takes the form of frilly, girly princess stuff (which, to the aforementioned moms, is tantamount to discovering their little darlings with Nazi-themed necrophiliac bestiality porn).

        • FLUNK_101

          I liked it when you said you wished you had a ring with your sister’s image on it … to punch Davey in the face with it!

          • monkeyknickers

            Oh I mean it literally. I have no problem smacking that loser. Plus I have about 6 inches on him . . . . . 🙂

            • Bella Legosi

              Neither do I Monkey! That pycho and I are height for height, except I prolly got about 40lbs on his ass and about 26inchs of 300lb Beckham style kicks! I would gladly take one for the team if I had my chance! Promise! But the last time he was in Portland they had to clear the streets 4 blocks, cuz apparently the Big Being who can create his own reality, thinks he is going to be sniped out like Flint…….pfffft that little fucker isn’t even worth the cost of the copper!

            • monkeyknickers

              I watched all of Mark Bunker’s vids from there and it was PATHETIC.

              Miscavige looked like SUCH a scared little mouse.

            • Bella Legosi

              Yup……AND FOR NO REASON AT ALL!!!!!!!! There was no one among the group I was around that remotely even discussed ANYTHING of the SORT! The worst we did was maybe boooo and yell giving the Gold Crew a few hours of editing!

        • SciWatcher

          Oh, wow, MK. Somehow I missed this about you before. How did your sister get involved with the cult, and was it before or after she had her daughter?

          • FingersCrossed

            Right.. did she disconnec t from her 4 year old?! (I doubt itit) or the father and he won custody or something?

            • monkeyknickers

              Yes, she disconnected from her nearly THREE year old. And me. It’s been over a year since she got sucked in.

              And . . . . . the “father” . . . . HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Clearly you haven’t spent any time on a rez, Fingers. :)))

            • FingersCrossed

              ‘On a rez’.. rez?..I don’t know what that is even so probably not. :/ I just didn’t follow I guess.. how someone would disconnect from a child that little..

            • Robert Eckert

              ‘rez’ = reservation

          • monkeyknickers

            I just bored villagedianne with the whole stupid story 🙂 I think it’s above? I honestly have no fucking idea how disqus works, except when it is plainly focused on making my life a misery. 🙂

            Is where I posted okay?

        • FeeIsMe

          Jesus, that truly breaks my heart. As a mother of 2 little girls – I just can’t understand how you could turn your back on your children for anything, let alone freaking Scientology!

          • monkeyknickers

            And it’s not my sister. Look at Jenna Miscavige.

            Her parents made no effort to see her more than a handful of times over a 6 year period.

            It has happened in the Sea Org (I now know) hundreds of times over.

            I just truly can’t get over that such powerful mind control was initiated by that fat cystic ridiculous asshole.

            Yeesh.

            • Missionary Kid

              Stop talking so nice about LRH!

            • monkeyknickers

              Okay okay. Temperance, right MK?

              I’ll call him . . . . a weight-challenged, common-sense challenged . . . . um . . . total fucking charlatan. And pathetic.

              :))

            • FeeIsMe

              I just can’t get my head around it! How do these Sci-Parents, just shut off from there kids? F_ck the Bridge, give me my kid!

        • villagedianne

          Wait, wait. I still don’t completely understand. Did your sister disconnect from her 3 year old daughter? Or did she disconnect from you while you were caring for the child? Or is she in the Sea Org where no children are allowed?

          If you are prevented from answering these questions because you need to protect your anonynimity then I will understand. If not, please clarify. Thanks.

          • monkeyknickers

            I brought my sister to live with me in LA because I wanted her to have a new start and to re-establish ties to Ashleen when she got out of the can (I took Ash when my sis went in). It started well, but then she discovered these “great people” when I sent my sister to Kaiser for an earache.

            A couple weeks later she told me she got a job doing paperwork at the “big blue” building and I just wasn’t savvy enough at that point to know what a web of evil she got caught in. I knew that Sci was stupid, but . . . *I* was stupid. I shoulda looked it up. I was just happy she got a damn job.

            Now that I know more I can describe it accurately – at the time I was so confused. She went “on staff”. Suddenly I basically never saw her. She was coming home at all hours, etc etc.

            Then she told me one night at supper that she had been chosen to join the upper executive level. I was actually proud of her. She was describing the Sea Org. She said she really needed some training tho, and that it cost a bit. I was scrunchy faced but I said I’d help with the money if I could.

            The next day she took my checkbook and wrote a check to Sci for $ 27,0842.00 dollars. My entire life savings, and the seed money for my next record.

            Then she disappeared and I never saw her again. I don’t blame her now, after reading everything.

            She actually sent a card for Ash’s 3rd bday, and that was basically it.

            I did research, and my heart stopped. What. The. FUCK were these assholes doing to people, you know?

            I contacted every “famous” or notable ExSci that I saw on talk shows or CNN or whatever begging for help in locating her.

            I’d gone to the Big Blue building demanding to see her and REALLY demanding for my money back for fucks’ sake . . . . I eventually got the ax and I’m now persona non grata.

            And . . . . now Ash is with me, and just celebrated her 4th bday, the sweet girl. 🙂 I am still trying to get her out.

            I actually don’t give a shit about anonymity, except I’ve been advised to be vague by ExSci folks that to be blatant might put my sister on the RPF. So . . . . I remain a primate in underpants. 🙂

            I realize that this story is SO SO SO light compared to the horror stories that I’ve learned . . . the suffering people have gone thru is just . . . . . it’s horrific.

            • stanrogers

              It seems to me that you’ve managed to find the owner of that blame you were trying to hoard. Good to see.

            • Bella Legosi

              Your story is NOT light by any standards Monkey. This really is why I am so goddamn vocal about this damn cult.

              I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers (I kinda still do that) for sure.

            • Missionary Kid

              In California, if you apply for welfare MediCal for Ash, you can get Child support services to go or after your sister for child support. What she has done is child abandonment. You may have to jump through some hoops because you might have to prove that you have the kid legally. You have an advantage because you are a close blood relative. If nothing else, it puts the law on her. Seeing as how she’s an ex-con, it might help your case.

              She can’t come back and take the little one from you, because one year of no contact is abandonment. Be sure to document every contact she had, including the card. No presents or phone calls, even Christmas cards makes it pretty crappy.

              Someone else may be able to help by telling what the cult might do to her. They don’t like legal entanglements. I hope that they kick her out, but I also hope they don’t go with fair game on you, but again, one of the other people here in the Bunker can probably help you.

              Please double-check everything I’ve told you before going in to the authorities. I’m not an attorney. Also realize that the county and state investigators are overwhelmed with budget cuts. The process may be slow, but they have resources you don’t.

            • Captain Howdy

              I think she should go the police and file a complaint against her sister for the theft. The cult would kick the sister out and probably give Knickers her money back to avoid any legal entanglements.

            • monkeyknickers

              My sis has two strikes already in CA and I just can’t – CANNOT – give her the third by reporting theft. Yes, she knew that, yes she was counting on it, but . . . . I can’t.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              I don’t wish to rile up your pregnancy hormones, Monkey. But I was looking at “The next day she took my checkbook”. Is there a possibility here that you could go to Legal Aid and sue for fraud while simultaneously going to the press about this story?

              Going to the press with this story if someone would take it into the light would most definitely help your Legal Aid attorney. Sometimes you can get one that is there for the same reason that many of US are here that also knows his or her stuff. $27,000 Plus all your expenses these last years add up and wouldn’t it come in handy right about now? As a matter of fact, wouldn’t it be a downright Rescue fund for you and the children?

              Just thinking out loud.

            • monkeyknickers

              I totally agree with you THDNE. But my sister has two strikes in CA already and me reporting anything would absolutely end up with a third.

              (for those who don’t live in CA – we have a 3 strikes law)

              She knows I won’t. That’s why she took it in the first place.

              I did consult a lawyer about suing the church and he said it would basically be impossible unless I implicated her.

              I’m trying really hard to let it go. But knowing that that tiny shithead is eating gourmet meals and taking private jets with my life savings gives me the very serious angries.

            • SciWatcher

              Oh my God, MK. I agree with Bella–you’re experiences are no less painful than anyone else’s. So sorry. I also think THDNE has a good point about getting legal aid and going to the press to try and get your money back! When are your babies due?

            • GlibWog

              I am so sorry MK.. breaks my heart. Thank you from the Bunker for taking care of that little precious monkey of yours Miss Ashleen. You are a true hero in my eyes.

            • monkeyknickers

              Aw – you’re sweet. But really – it’s not as heroic as it seems. I’ve had Ash since my sister went in when Ash was a baby. I took her on tour even. She’s just mine now I think. But I want my sister out of that horrible cult. They prey on people like her.

              Well . . . . shit . . . . they prey on anyone really.

            • Poison Ivy

              Evil. The Technology of Evil.

            • monkeyknickers

              Right on.

          • stanrogers

            Sea Org. The tale is told elsewhere in a comments thread that I’m sure feels like a lifetime ago… and yesterday, at the same time. See “How not to Protest Scientology”.

        • Poison Ivy

          Praying for you all.

      • richelieu jr

        Can’t you read? It was a monkey! Those things are dangerous!

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          Kirstie Alley has three (or is it nine?) lemurs. And the most dangerous creature in her household is…

          • Missionary Kid

            Krusty

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Ding ding ding ding ding. We have a winner!

            • Missionary Kid

              It was like asking, “What animal is the most deadly?”
              Human.

            • monkeyknickers

              Isn’t that the truth.

          • monkeyknickers

            SHE DOES NOT PLEASE TELL ME SHE DOESN’T.

            GodDAMN I will go to Bev Hills and kick her ass myself. What a selfish cow. !!

            If she wants to look at lemurs then she should just gather up her designer duds and move to Madagascar.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Do they have Hyenas there?
              They could “handle” Kirstie.

            • monkeyknickers

              I’ll wear a costume and do it myself.

              🙂

            • GlibWog

              OMG Monkey.. Don’t Go as a Doughnut …Please, Please I beg of you!
              Go as a Carrot. She’ll leave you alone!

            • Andrew Robertson

              Not if she’s turned into a giant weta…….they LOVE carrots!

              http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5499/9355959862_961009f008_o.jpg

              Andrew

            • GlibWog

              Andrew… ewwwwwwwwwwwwww… Never heard of a Weta Before.. ugh, ugh.. Big old Grasshopper…

              Well at least it’s not a Tapeworm.. ( Don’t you dare put up a Tapeworm..) Gag me with a spoon.. ugh

            • monkeyknickers

              YAY Weta!

            • monkeyknickers

              I SHALL NOT BE EATEN.

              Or will I??

              The woman is a powerful consumption machine. Hmmmmmmmmmmm . . . . . . . 🙂

          • richelieu jr

            A cornered Culkin?

        • monkeyknickers

          They always go for the eyes!!

    • MarionDee

      Your holding on to that three-year-old til her mother returns is love, monkeyshines. Powerful, monumental love.

      • monkeyknickers

        It’s sorta a family tradition to take care of everybody else’s kids. 🙂 It works for us in a complete non-notable-at-all kinda way. We’re fucked up but we hang together. It’s not . . . . I dunno Marion . . . it’s not . . . praise-worthy, I guess. Plus . . . this is Ashleen we’re talking about. You can’t get more four year old smart & funny. Yesterday she told me her first “joke”.

        Knock knock, she says.
        Who’s there, I answer.

        A . . . . hairy blanket HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

        Of course I laughed along with her.
        But it’s like quantum physics or something, a pre-schooler’s humor. I just nod and pretend I get it.

        🙂

        • shasha40

          I was raised where family comes before any and everything. It’s supposed to be no matter what family will always be there for you.I guess that’s what makes disconnection to me ,all the more horrific .

          • FistOfXenu

            Yup. We were the same. If we ever joined Para$citology and any body ordered us to disconnect we’d have answered with mocking laughter and an invitation to use his head like a suppository. Or worse.

        • Sherbet

          Next up for the preschooler: Jokes where every punchline includes the word “poop.”

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            well this is sure the place for poopyheads. we are fairly fond of them around here.

          • 1subgenius

            Know what you give an elephant with diarrhea?
            Plenty of room.

            • Sherbet

              Ew!!! But funny!

            • FistOfXenu

              So what do you give an elephant with Diarrhetics?

            • 1subgenius

              Plenty of womb.

            • FistOfXenu

              You’ve heard that 1 before? Or you just made the answer up again?

            • 1subgenius

              Just a big mug o coffee, with iced tea chaser

            • FistOfXenu

              I’m impressed, 1sub. I’m on soft drinks today too. I’m trying out a beer mug with a foam insulator so it doesn’t get warm too fast.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              arggggh!

            • ThetaBara

              Scientology can fix that!!!

            • monkeyknickers

              You’re killing me. KILLING me.

            • monkeyknickers

              HAHA!

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            Why does Tigger bounce through the Hundred Acre Wood?
            So he won’t accidentally step on Pooh.

            Why does Tigger have stinky fingernails?
            From playing with Pooh all day.

            • Sherbet

              How old are you, anyway, D-cubed?!

            • Robert Eckert

              As one of my favorite teachers told me, “Getting older is mandatory, but becoming mature is optional.”

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Just old enough…

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Aged to Perfection. You can use it.

          • CraftLass

            And boogers. Lots of boogers. 😀

            • Sherbet

              Yup, those, too.

          • monkeyknickers

            Yes . . . . we’ve arrived there, frankly. Yesterday she said, “I’m gonna poop on you!!” to my dad, and he said, “The fuck you are.” I’m not even joking.

            They have a special relationship.

            • Sherbet

              Oh, gosh, I just roared at that story, ‘knickers!

            • monkeyknickers

              You got her joke then ? Cuz I wouldn’t mind some translation. 🙂

            • Missionary Kid

              He replied in kind. He got that she was dis-respecting him, so he gave it right back. That’ll teach her not to talk to him that way.

            • monkeyknickers

              Ah!!! Okay . . . . – I thought Sherbet was talking about the hairy blanket thing.

              And yes, you are totally right and I don’t care who tells me that I can’t “subject” my child/niece to that. Half the folks on this blog might want to call child services, but I’m not gonna stop giving her structure and limits.

              Honestly I was super surprised and embarrassed when she said it. And she ABSOLUTELY learned at that moment that it’s NOT OKAY to talk to someone like that. As she should.

              I appreciate that my family is odd and harsh and ghetto to others, and that according to contemporary child rearing rules I am somehow abusing her by permitting a firm rebuttal like that, but . . . I honestly don’t care. And it’s for HER, you know? Like you train a dog so that the dog can experience loads of different situations without acting like a dick. I want her to know how to act, so she can face challenges in life.

              Obviously no one will ever lay a hand on that child, but they really really need limits.

              So sue me. :))

            • Missionary Kid

              I believe that too many people are hung up on creating a uniform environment for kids, so that everyone disciplines or responds to them the same. As far as I’m concerned, that’s a big mistake.

              Kids need to learn that different places have different rules. One of them is that adults can swear, but kids can’t, and that “pee-pee and poo-poo,” some of their favorite giggle words, can get them in trouble. I wouldn’t have replied to a kid that way, but he did, and grandpas can do things other mortals can’t, IMO.

              Ash learned from the exchange, I’m sure.

            • monkeyknickers

              I guarantee she did!

            • Sherbet

              The blanket joke? Nope, it doesn’t make sense to anyone over the age of 4. I’m roaring at the exchange between your Dad and Ash.

            • monkeyknickers

              It was funny, Sherbet. !! You shoulda seen her face . . . . . . it was like . . . . . oh! okay – time to rethink this approach . 🙂

            • Sherbet

              Something like: “Ix-nay on the poop jokes when talking to Grandpa.”

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          My wife describes it as the basket-of-kittens. We may fight and cry and carry on, but as soon as somebody tries to upset the basket, we all stick together.

          • monkeyknickers

            What an AWESOME way to put it. I’m kinda in love with your wife Douglas. I’m straight but I’m thinking I might try to tempt her away from you with promises of peach pie and homemade sauerkraut. Am I in the ballpark? 🙂

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              You just want an extra pair of boobs for the coming milk-fest.

        • Simple Thetan

          Anybody who would not care for a four years old is a monster. Any MAA who would tell me to disconnect from my child will suffer sever bodily harm.

        • ThetaBara

          Just because someone else did it, too, doesn’t at ALL take away from what you are doing. I’ve been taken in by rellies (and I was old enough to be grateful). It is HUGE. Tradition or not! <3

        • Poison Ivy

          Glad she has you, MK.

        • stanrogers

          If it’s any help, our provincial public broadcaster, TVO, had a kids’s series designed by OISE/UT (the Ontario Institute for Studies in Education at the University of Toronto) called “The Jungle Room”, for which there was a companion series for parents called “Gorilla Parenting”. This episode is about preschoolers’ humour (or what passes for humour in the mind of a preschooler):

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao78bT-8P8k

          • monkeyknickers

            That was an awesome watch Stan, thank you!!

            It’s good to know I’m not alone. 🙂

          • MereCatWatcher

            Oh yeah, that’s why the joking and degrading and shoops are so great. We can be creative and reduce stress at the same time. {Ever notice how humorless scientologists can be?} Certainly some of the things they do such as disconnection. thought control and rpfing knock the humor right out of things and can be so very sad. I’m glad they can be ridiculous squirrel busters as well. Can you imagine looking like that in all seriousness?

            • stanrogers

              I may be a bit thick, but I’m failing to follow the sequence here. It seems like a non sequitur; is there a chance that it may somehow sequit? (My post was in response to having to pretend to “get” the joke-like things a four-year-old tells, and made in the hope of reassuring someone under much too much stress that there’s nothing weird about that.)

        • pronoia

          MK – if you don’t mind me asking — what “circus” did your sister join? And why did she leave her little girl?

          • Robert Eckert

            She joined the staff at Big Blue, and then the Sea Org.

          • monkeyknickers

            She joined the Sea Org . . . . and like many many others was convinced that leaving her kid was in the best interest of humanity.

            Stupid huh. 🙁

            Still . . . . I’m not judging her. Well I AM but after she left and after doing all this research, I understand now.

            You know?

      • 1subgenius

        With love we cannot fail.

        • ThetaBara

          Love is actually stronger than Will.

          That was Crowley’s mistake. Well, that and having anything to do with Parsons and Hubbard in the first place! He’ll be forever linked with them now. And he thought being called a satanist was bad! LOL.

          But seriously: Love will win out. Will can push all it wants, but ultimately it’s all down to Love.

          This is why disconnection only goes so far. It requires enormous emotional duress to establish – much less maintain. The default condition for most humans is that you love your family (including chosen family – marriage etc) and that surmounts the differences. It is one of the most basic human drives. That they can overcome it, even temporarily, does speak to their strength (and the danger of getting involved). But they cannot defeat Love. No way.

          • cicely neville

            Beautiful – and true. In our culture love has been dismissed as a mere sentiment – something that sells greeting cards. But it is a powerful human drive – and I’m not talking about sex.

            in the death camps, inmates would bond into little family groups. When one member died, they would adopt another person. The very worst attempts to reduce them to subhumans only drove them together.

    • Davka

      I have a three year old, and even though I have my Calgon take-me-away moments, even the thought of leaving her brings me to tears.

      • monkeyknickers

        That’s the danger of this cult.

        I said it above, but it’s not just my sister. Read Jenna Miscavige’s book and you will be bawling for hours.
        Those poor little ones in the “cadet org”.
        Ashleen is one of MANY, sadly, children left behind.

    • cicely neville

      We need to clarify the initials – I thought someone was asking Missionary Kid his due date – When is yours, Monkey, so we can prepare the celebration?

      • monkeyknickers

        Mid November, tho I’m told twins frequently arrive early.

        And if you’re planning something, darling . . . . PLEASE include cocktails. Undoubtedly I’ll need one. I am . . . . . UNHAPPY . . . . with the prospect of giving birth. It just sounds . . . icky and painful and weird.

        🙂

        • cicely neville

          Not that bad if you’re in good physical shape. They don’t call it’ labor’ for nothing. Never mind all the screaming you see in the movies; you’ll grunt a lot. Lots of pressure on the joints.

          • monkeyknickers

            Christ almighty.

            Wonderful.

            Actually, I quit now. 🙂 I decided I want out. :))

  • pronoia

    I am amazed that the cult attorneys would show Claire these emails during a deposition — if their point was to prove that she was not “forcibly” disconnected, that it was her mother’s choice, what it instead shows is a mother under incredible pressure to choose between one child versus her husband and other children, and the blackmail used (husbands “advancement”). She shows that her email is being monitored, that she is afraid to tell her husband that she is communicating with her daughter. It shows a mother is being put into an impossible situation, forced to make a choice that no mother should ever have to make.

    • Vistaril

      I’m not surprised at all. While ostensibly the production of the emails may have been to indicate that the disconnection was voluntary, another, perhaps more likely reason reason, was to personally hurt Claire by demonstrating that Scientology had control over her communication lines with her family and, indeed, her family itself. Remember, litigation, according to L Ron Hubbard, is not about winning, its about destroying the people speaking truth about L Ron Hubbard and his Scientology, as well as setting an example for others who might be similarly tempted. How many of those who have left with similar tales as the Headleys have the bravery, determination, emotional and financial resources to have their private communications and deeply personal aspects of their lives splattered about it public over the course of years?

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        THIS. A thousand times, This.

  • iHateDuplicity

    The “Ethics Officers” and OSA staff and execs of the “church” of Scientology are a bunch of power-hungry, twisted megalomaniacs who hide under a cloak of sweetness and light and justify their insanity with “greatest good” – which of course can be used to justify literally ANY suppression of individuals for the common good. They are truly sick people. They do what they do freely of their own free will and none of them can hide behind the Nuremberg Defense (“I was ordered to do it by my senior”) or any other justification for the heinous acts they commit on a daily basis. You get that OSA bots? You are sick people. What is it going to take for you to wake up and smell what you are shoveling?
    We talk about cognitive dissonance and use other lofty terms to describe what is in essence just disgusting, inhumane treatment of other people. The fact they call themselves a “church” makes it even more sick – not entirely dissimilar to the revulsion one feels when one reads about the Spanish Inquisition carried out by a bunch of sadistic Catholic “priests” or the thousands who were burned at the stake by groups of “good Christians”. While no one is being murdered in Scientology (these days), it is arguable that forcible disconnection from one’s loved ones is a fate worse than death in many ways. And don’t think the Scientologists who perpetrate these human rights violations don’t know exactly what they are doing.
    I can’t think of any mindfu@k worse than the Cof$. Hubbard talks about how groups of 1.1’s should be sequestered and banished to be forcibly removed from influencing the rest of society. I think that is a brilliant solution – sequester the Scientologists!

    • AnonymousSP

      “…sequester the Scientologists!” haha Send them to Siberia, U.S.A.

      (Hey Miscavige goon squad! Did you guise ever find those documents that Dear Leader promised on ABC News, like a gazillion, trillion, one hundred years ago? I heard those documents, if spread out side by side would be a big as all your bedrooms are going to be when you’re in prison. Flunk.)

      • Bella Legosi

        This is the point where I come to as well. Lock them up all Escape from New York style………but then I was reminded here at the Bunker to utilize communication, openness, and humor. I believe someone pointed out Andreas way when he first spoke to Tory. I have to say I was served a slice of humble pie that day, but goddamn everything about this cult comes to piss you off when you read enough of it. So, I really do understand both your comments!

        • AnonymousSP

          I always stand back from evil and don’t do bad shit. I don’t break laws nor promote hate yet I gleefully anticipate incarceration of those who do. He won’t be the first cult leader to go to jail.

          • Bella Legosi

            Amen. I have patience and an internet connection! I will be happier than a clam at hightide when Little Boots and the feeb brigade get their’s! (No pun intended on the clam part!)

            I still think Black Dolphin would be the best place for DM.

            • AnonymousSP

              Wow. I never heard of that prison. I’m pretty liberal so even a plain old 8 by 12 cell in a mediocre prison on a tundra with no view, flora or fauna is good enough for me! Chicken strips, beans and rice Davey….

            • Bella Legosi

              Yeah, Black Dolphin is my fantasy place for DM. It seems fitting for all the pain and criminality he has created, furthered, and fostered over 30 years. I like to think of myself as liberal too, but sometimes when it comes to guys like Little Boots, you want them to go to a place where even the cannibals seem depressed!

            • shasha40

              No chicken strips, hell no beans and rice ! Bread and water only !

            • FistOfXenu

              How is it punishment if they get a break from beans and rice?

            • shasha40

              True, I thought bread & water was worse but you’re right. But , no chicken strips or even meat like substances !

            • FistOfXenu

              They get meat like substances from the bugs in the rice.

            • Bella Legosi

              Bologne and hotdogs………and not the Hebrew National kind either…….I’m talking government cheese grade meat…….like the kind the Dollar Tree gets away selling to the public……..and instant rice!

        • iHateDuplicity

          You are absolutely right. I used to be able to maintain a lot more patience with this whole thing, but it’s still very much influencing my own life and the lives of those I care about, as well as the tragic stories I read here. It definitely makes quite a horror story and it’s hard to maintain peace and calm and understanding in the face of that.

  • Still_On_Your_Side

    I can’t imagine how that lawyer could justify using those emails against you. It’s one thing to defend a psychotic sociopath because he’s a criminal on trial for his life, and it’s another thing to represent a psychotic sociopathic organization, and assist it to hurt others. We should take heart, however, none of this nastiness is occurring in the dark. There are many eyes on Miscavige right now, and millions of people are having their eyes opened. There will be more celebrities who leave, and more cases Miscavige loses. Hopefully, Claire’s family will be able to connect again soon.

    • richelieu jr

      That reminds me of a quote from Jonathan Demme’s underrated ‘Married tot he Mob’

      “You guys are just like the mob!”

      “Not at all Miss. The mob is run by lying, cheating, thieving, murderous psychopaths. We work for the U.S. Government.”

      • pronoia

        LOL! That was a funny line — thanks for the reminder. I need to rewatch it one of these days!

      • Still_On_Your_Side

        “Your honor, it is true that the state psychiatrist has diagnosed David Miscavige as a psychotic, sociopath, who has destroyed the lives of thousands of people and used hundreds of millions of charitable, tax exempt donations to live a uber luxurious lifestyle and harrass individuals and entities, including the U.S. government, because they were on his enemies list. Nonetheless, he asks that this court should show him mercy. He has no friends, and his entire family has disconnected from him.”

        • pronoia

          Which is why he must be confined for a billion years in the Miscavige Hospital for the Criminally Insane!

  • richelieu jr

    One thing I found confusing (perhaps as I ma not American?) about the nomenclature here is strangely one of not vocabulary, per se, but of the preposition used… One is ‘PTS TO’ to Suppressive Person…

    To my ear that seemed to mean it was you MAKING that person suppressive, not them effecting you.

    Maybe I am alone in this, but I though it might help any newbies as well as Tony’s suggestions…

    • Bella Legosi

      Nice catch! Kinda like a evil, dirty, catch 22 isn’t it?

      If You are PTS TO a SP your PTSness could be fueling the SPness and the SP in turn could be fueling your PTSness! It is so fucked that it could have been Hubs point! If that is indeed the case and not Hub writing like he thought he was Mankinds savior, which he was prone to do! But at any rate this is why I love “foreigners”

      😀

    • FLUNK_101

      That’s an interesting perception … I never thought of it that way, but it makes sense. When you are “PTS” to someone, you are making that person a “suppressive” … and that, by itself, is suppressive.

      It reminds me of that stupid joke I’ve heard Scientologists say, “I’m not a suppressive, I’m just PTS!” Really, what’s the diff?

      • Peter

        Potential! LOL

    • Captain Howdy

      You pulled in the S.P

  • richelieu jr

    Doesn’t it kind of make your blood boil that the US Government is subsidizing Tom Cruise’s subsidizing of this cult? How many millions of tax dollars have been lost to this alone? I have stats here indicating that he made or surpassed 100 million dollars a year several years in a row…

    I don’t know what your tax rates are (only that I never see the end of rich white guys whining about how hard they have it (try it over here, where even petrol is 4x as expensive!), but that’s gotta add up to pretty faire chunk of change!

    • Bella Legosi

      YES! It does piss me off! And the IRS wants to audit Tea Party members? >(

      • Missionary Kid

        It turns out that they also audited other groups, too.

        • FistOfXenu

          The IRS does auditing? So they’re squirrels right? And that’s why Para$citology went after them and won their great victory because Standard Drech is better than Squirrel Drech?

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            I remember the first time I heard someone talk about getting auditing like it was a wonderful thing, and I was like, wot?!

      • Robert Eckert

        No, they were not “auditing” anybody. They were denying tax-exempt status to groups that called themselves “charitable” although their purposes were purely political. Political groups are not entitled to tax exemption.

        • richelieu jr

          Exactly. And on both sides.
          As they should be doing, IMHO

        • Bella Legosi

          I do stand corrected. I don’t have a problem with the IRS auditing the Tea Party, they and their shell “non profit profiteering” super PACs deserve to be looked at, but I feel they should come 2nd to the for profit “religion” that is Co$.

          If only that damn 501 (c) exemtion could be yanked, I do believe that would be the death nell of this cult.

          • Bella Legosi

            “Give me what I want and I will go away!”

            Pretty much says what Little Boots told the IRS in a nutshell!

            • Peter

              And it’s most unique that the “agreement” was sequestered and no one can examine it. A tad of blackmail in there somewhere?

            • Bella Legosi

              That sequestering crap really rubs me the wrong way! This should have been transparent as all hell and the fact that is it NOT really says to me that the IRS is really got some nasty skeletons in their closet as well. What makes me equally sick is that they allowed themselves to be essentially roped and controlled by Little Boots and his lawyers. And this is one of the reasons why I find the IRS to be douche bags!

            • Peter

              As I understand it, they hit the IRS with about 100 differing suits in many different jurisdictions. I would think that sooner or later, some suit against them will have sufficient reason to demand it be made public. Well, I can dream, can’t I?

            • Bella Legosi

              I read that at the height they were responsible for 2,000 suits against the IRS. I also have read they also set up those “Were you wrongly discriminated by the IRS?” commercials during the early 90’s. I know around my family those commercials struck a chord, but they never ever knew just who was really behind them.

              You and I both can dream until we wake up to some news that there was a FBI/Interpol raid done on all RTC affiliated buildings!…….yeah I do lead a rich fantasy life don’t I?

              🙂

    • sugarplumfairy

      Yah, it does.. I’d love for someone who understands money to give us an estimate of the amount of money our government has willingly forfeited since 1993 by granting this criminal enterprise tax exempt status..

      • Bella Legosi

        I have been wondering that for at least 2 years now. Math is NOT my strong suit and honestly have been waiting for Missionary Kid or John P. to post their estimates! They may have already, but if so I missed it or it was posted before I started coming here regularly!

        Kid???? We need your brain!

        • Missionary Kid

          I have no idea.

          • Bella Legosi

            🙁

        • Captain Howdy

          Just pull something out of your ass LRH style.

          • Bella Legosi

            NO!

            Although I bet that the number would be infuriating and scary as hell. Imagine what all that money could have went for to actually help Mankind!!!!

            There is a lot of variables with taxes. I don’t know if 100% is write offs when it concerns parishioners, then you have to think well how much does the church write off as well, then all the other neat loop holes and exemptions they could qualify for……….ahhhhhhhh!!!!!

            I refuse to walk down a dark, scary ass path without at least some guide damn it!

  • Truthiwant

    Some people reading these articles about disconnection and all the other sad things that go on in the world of this ‘church’ probably think “How can these idiots buy this shit called Scientology” and I can agree with the impression that these people might have.

    It is a very difficult question to answer but I thought I could give a little insight in to what happens to the mind of a person exposed to Scientology, or atleast what happened to me personally.

    Firstly, you have to understand that I and everybody else knew next to nothing about all the stories we read quite freely today here on the Bunker. All negative stories were never talked about or even known to the parishioners of Scientology and we were told very early on NOT to look or read anthing that is called ‘entheta’, which could be translated as bad and damaging information for an individual. When I was ‘in’ I was only told about the wonderful abilities attained by people after finishing a course or an auditing level. I was also told about all the evil people in the world that were trying to destroy humanity. That being, of course, the field of psychiatry, psychology and many other medical practices.

    Having now been exposed to Scientology (and this is a very difficult consideration to understand and believe but is unfortunately true) and having had a few basic ‘wins’, for some reason my mind accepted that this was the truth. All I can say is that this is the terrible and insiduous part of the mind control that manages to make people believe in the teachings and keep them inside the Organization. I, personally, was never a big believer in what Hubbard wrote and when I did start to doubt what was going on inside the church, it took a couple of days of intense reading on the internet to make me completely change my mind.

    However, before I discovered the truth on the internet, I remember on numerous occasions, one particular Scientologist, an OTVII, coming round to my house to try to convince me to get back on lines. He constantly went on about ‘Being the only group on the planet that had the ability and technology to free people’ and also insisted that ‘This was my eternity’. I never really bought this stuff but at the same time, it was enough to keep me ‘in’ and make me wonder ‘And if he happened to be right?’

    I know this sounds very silly to many of you, but that is how it was.

    To sum up, Scientology has a built-in ability within its teachings that manages to make a person believe something that is, infact, false.

    I often think about this OTVII that is doing OTVIII now and his rantings about ‘Being the only able people in the world’ and I can now see that his mind is working in the exact same way that my mind was working when I was ‘in’. For him, it is going to be much, much more difficult to get out, but at the same time I believe there is some small piece of information out there that, if he saw it, it might just be able to jolt his mind, atleast a little bit, to make him think with real and logical reasoning.

    This is why it is so very important to carry on writing and exposing the cult. A lot of the writings and comments will have no effect on a Scientologist whatsoever, even if he happened to be looking at a blog like this, but somewhere there will be a little story or fact or something that he will relate to one day and, hopefully, he will begin to doubt his beliefs and get out.

    • Bella Legosi

      Ok……I need to partially memorize this comment. I run into the, “Well that’s what they get for joining a cult!” attitude a lot here in the wog world. Especially when it comes to my generation, because they have had the advantage of being hooked up to the internet for the last 16 or so years. It is very hard for me to relate to another “wog” just the gravity of this insidious cult mentality.

      Sadly, many people I know are so freaking apathetic, it borders on treasonous. They never ever give a crap until it is there family member calling them “supressive” or regging them to go to the org for “courses on communication”. And when they finally do realize what the hell their family member or friend has gotten into…….that is when they get disconnected. It is sad. I hate it and it frustrates me more then you know.

      Thank you for posting that wonderful comment!

    • richelieu jr

      I can relate to what you say Bella, because that was indeed my attitude for many years. After all I had taken their silly personality test on Hollywood Blvd (YTSPTOHB?) and was lass than gobsmacked to learn that it proved I needed Scientology! What a surprise, my girlfriend’s turned out to say the same thing?

      And I watched their little film, and listened to the lovely lady who mysteriously appeared in the seat next to mine, lightly touching my arm (she sure smelled good!) and saying things like ‘He’s right you know!” ” Wow! I’d never really thought of it that way, but can you imagine?” Once again, i was less than shocked to find that my girlfriend had received the same treatment…

      Then I did the little ‘can’ demonstration.. ladidah….

      Fake names, addresses, and a promise to come back that evening won us our freedom and we staggered down the walk of stars laughing our asses off… Surely nobody really fell for that, did they?

      This simultaneously kept me from taking the cult seriously (hence my lightly mocking little films); I mean A Worldwide Conspiracy? From those clowns? They couldn’t organize a (clam?)bake off!

      And it kept me from feeling any real connection or sympathy for victims, thinking ‘We, anyone who could fall for that is going to get taken advantage of sooner or later. Hopefully they’ll learn something!”

      In attempting to rouse people to the danger of this cult, I think these are the two entwined attitudes that are gong to be the most difficult to displace….

      • Bella Legosi

        It is the hardest thing to displace. I still stand by my passionate conviction tho. It doesn’t disway me from talking about it or telling people about it. Even though some hate it when I do bring it up. Yet, there are times when I do talk about somethings, it sticks in their mind and they end up doing a bit of research online.

        I do hope that my generation and those after do not get sucked into this mind screw. It will be very hard for Co$ in the next 5 or 10 years. If anything they will have to depend on “cradle to the grave” followers. Even that will see a cliff. It is becoming harder and harder to NOT get on the net and read whatever you want or post.

        My fear is that 200 years from now what we call a cult now, becomes a convoluted bonifide religion, complete with “cultural amnesia”. The Romans thought those crazy “Christians” would never make it and now look what we have? Catholics, Lutherans, Baptists, Pentecostals, Seventh Day Adventists, Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, Christian “Scientists”…….that is not counting the Snake Handlers and all other forms of what used to be called a cult too.

        • Machiavellian Midget

          The cult of CoS is way to wacked in design and belief system for your worry to come to pass in 200 yrs or 2 quadrillion hubbardian years. I wouldn’t worry about it, Bella L.

          • Bella Legosi

            I hope to Uncle Cosmo that you are right!!!

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          Great observation, Bella.

          I have been concerned that the CoS just might somehow weather this round, and come back stronger than ever. The scenario is not that far fetched. If Miscavige were overthrown, or left, or criminally convicted, a charismatic new leader could emerge and “reform” the CoS. They have a great infrastructure in place– paid-up properties and a fat treasury.

          It’s been done before– and even more recently than ancient Rome. In 1843 the Mormon church was written off as dead. Joseph Smith had been killed in a jailhouse in Carthage, Illinois. His named successor (his son) was a child, followers had been led in all directions by others (Bickerton, Strang, Rigdon, etc.) and there was no clear leadership. Shortly after, Brigham Young arrived from a mission in England and took charge. The rest, as they say, is history.

          That was less than two hundred years ago. So… be careful what you wish for when it comes to the current Church of Scientology.

          • Robert Eckert

            Smith has not imprisoned all of the potential successors the way that Miscavige has. I would think LRH is the closer analogue to Smith, leaving a chaotic fight for succession behind; Miscavige is the Brigham Young, except that Brigham Young left a functional system in place that did not require anybody terribly charismatic at the top anymore. What Miscavige has done does not have any good analogies in the past: the erratic career of Jacob Frank (self-anointed successor to Shabbetai Tzevi) maybe?

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              I agree the analogy breaks down in that LRH’s successor, David Miscavige, is no Apostle Paul or Brigham Young. Miscavige may yet be the “savior” of mankind, in that he appears to be single-handedly destroying Scientology.

              As far as “imprisoning” potential successors goes, the splinter groups of Mormonism (Bickerton, Strang, Rigdon, etc) closely parallel the relatively new “squirrel” tech, complete with personalities, followers and pseudo-organization. Bear in mind that, despite what Mormon missionaries may tell you (“We are the True Church of Jesus Christ, because we do not have all those false denominations.”), there are still “other” Mormon churches. The Church of Christ (Temple Lot), Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite), Apostolic United Bretheren and others are still active. Then there are the Fundamentalists (who practice plural marriage). The largest sect, however, is the Community of Christ, known until 2001 as the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints. It was headed until recently by the lineal descendants of Joseph Smith, and was recognized in federal court as the true organization founded by Joseph Smith. So the LDS is Utah are the actual apostates…!

            • Interested

              Trouble is there is Marty Rathbun who will possibly put himself forward as the “new leader” if our little Dave and the church implodes. There are those who cannot see that LRH was a fraud and con man and into evil magick.

          • Bella Legosi

            Thank you! Exactly! I wasn’t trying to bash Christains, although I do realize I have done that before and am trying hard to not do that anymore here! But you articulated my point wonderfully!

    • Gerard Plourde

      “How can these idiots buy this shit called Scientology”

      Scientology preys on people when they are vulnerable and indoctrinates them to be unquestioning, using fear and punishment to enforce compliance. Once hooked it’s hard to escape.

    • Vistaril

      To sum up, Scientology has a built-in ability within its teachings that manages to make a person believe something that is, infact, false.

      Yep. It starts with Engrams and ends at Xenu, with all of the things you mention, plus much much more, carefully inserted along a gradient scale to serve as a distraction from the fraud. L Ron Hubbard knew exactly what he was doing. A large part of the PTS / SP Doctrine was the use of language to dehumanise. Its far easier to treat with disgust and seek to destroy those considered “degraded beings” and “Suppressives” holding back humanity from “total freedom” than it is to consider those same people “mothers” or “fathers” or “sisters” or “brothers” . . .

      Scientology’s “built-in ability” to deceive, I suggest, is the use of language because in shaping the language a person uses, L Ron Hubbard was able to control their thinking. Consider just for a moment the number of unexamined concepts contained within the redfined words “PTS”, or “suppressive”, or “psychiatrist”, or even “dynamic”.

      The whole Scientology PTS / SP Doctine is one great exercise in dehumanising and creating enemies because, as L Ron Hubbard realised, having enemies is essential to the running of his fraud. Having enemies, the more evil and powerful the better, serves to provide excuses for why the “tech” doesn’t work, justification for making good people do bad things, and distracts from the actions of the leaders. All cults have enemies and L Ron Hubbard wrote the manual on how to create them and then, though auditing and milieu pressures, to drive the false reality into the mind of innocents. In effect, the PTS / SP Doctrine is a stark example of the very sort of “implant” L Ron Hubbard warned against. Just as L Ron Hubbard warned about telling lies being the only way to control people before immediately lying to the people he was addressing, he also provided a vivid warning against exactly what he was doing. Of course, since He was giving the warning He couldn’t actually be doing those things . . . could He?

      • Captain Howdy

        Outstanding!

      • Machiavellian Midget

        The ‘vivid warning’ link above, a document written by Brian Ambry, is outstanding! and amazing!

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        Great post. I have never saved a post before. I saved this one.

  • richelieu jr

    OTHER RULES THAT DO NOT APPLY TO TOM CRUISE:

    1) Is allowed to go on ‘You must be as tall as Goofy to go on this ride’ Rides at Disneyland even though no taller than Piglet.

    2) ‘No Single Tooth to Be Front and Centre’ Rule of general Aesthetics

    3) Is allowed to tear off those ‘Do Not Tear Off’ labels on Mattresses (the abuse only started with Oprah’s Couch)…

    • 1subgenius

      Yer on a roll.

  • richelieu jr

    “Unprecedented shrinkage.”

    Wasn’t that an episode of Seinfeld?

    (I can only imagine COB stamping his tiny hoof, erm, ‘foot’ and screaming, ‘It was COOOOOOOOLD!”)

    • Bella Legosi

      I had a feeling someone would make a crack about Seinfeld!

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        Well you have already read OT III and survived, So you must be an operating thetan.

        • Bella Legosi

          Good point, although I know my brain cells prolly thought that was way way worse than huffing aerosol air sprayers (which I seriously never contemplated doing, but known those who have and WOW…..worse then E Tards)

    • FistOfXenu

      Maybe he uses that to describe being born too and he thinks it’s why he’s so tiny. “I discovered this engram about how my mom gave birth to me in a snow bank and that’s why I’m so shriveled up”.

  • richelieu jr

    And Claire, in case it isn’t already clear. I am so, so sorry, for what happened with you and your family.

    (But so, so happy for you and YOUR family!)

  • Still_On_Your_Side

    If the purpose of disconnection is to protect members from individuals that will harm their going up the bridge, and almost every family member or friend, who leaves or is not in, is disconnected, how the hell is this church going to “clear the planet”? It seems that Miscavige has created an organization of terrified people, scared of their fathers, mothers, children, even grandbabies! They are even terrified of each other. It is no wonder they can’t recruit anymore-they see the world as composed of potential enemies, and if someone does get past the enemy test, they are driven away by the constant hands in their wallet.

    • Gerard Plourde

      Clearing the planet isn’t the actual goal of Scientology. Creating a cult atmosphere in which unquestioning individuals fork over large sums of money to the organization to do with as it pleases is.

    • FistOfXenu

      “they see the world as composed of potential enemies”

      And if they’re following DM’s example they see the cult as composed of potential enemies too.

  • Jim Gideon Cherkas

    Well its a self determined action just like a guy holding a gun to your head he gives you a choice and its your self-determined decision so in the end it was a choice that is the analogy also with Tom Cruise it says handle or disconnect so Tom Cruise is considered he’s handling so he doesn’t have to disconnect and the church can really take his money with regard to Katie Holmes.

    • richelieu jr

      I was thinking of it as the Spanish Inquisition’s choice between conversion and… worse….

      “Confess! Don’t be boring!
      Confess! Don’t be dull!
      Confess! You’re ignoring
      That it’s better to lose your

      skullcap than your skull!
      Oy Gevalt!”

      • 1subgenius

        That, too, is delicious.
        Source?

        • Robert Eckert
          • 1subgenius

            Mel!!!

            • Bella Legosi

              I swear even Hitler would have laughed his ass off with Mel…….dude is a freaking legend!

            • 1subgenius

              The chutzpah of dealing with an incredibly tragic issue with this over the top humor.
              Only Mel could pull it off.

          • Bella Legosi

            oh Bella is pulling out her tiny legs and jazz hands!

          • Bob

            Just change the refrain to: “The Church’s Sec Check” instead of The. Inquisition.

        • richelieu jr

          That would be Mel Brooks’ “The History of the World, pt1″….

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxGCFZcd73g

  • richelieu jr

    Ha! I meant to post this the other day, but just found a first draft of one of the short films that got the Scilons all flustered..

    Most of it is ‘SIlly LieDetector’ level stuff (Andy Warhol holding ‘Campbells Soup’ Cans HAr Har!), but this line stuck out for me (from a series of ‘testimonials’ for ‘Liarnetics’ (I should point out that none of this stuff got in):

    “Over 2,000 pages and nearly 3 sentences long…”

    “It’s as if Aleister Crowley wrote a repair manual for A television set without ever having seen one!”

    That last one struck me as much more perceptive than I would ever have given myself credit for (if not necessarily funny)…

    • Bella Legosi

      “It’s as if Aleister Crowley wrote a repair manual for A television set without ever having seen one!”

      OMG that one is going in Bella’s addled memory bank of awesome witticisms!

    • 1subgenius

      Delicious.
      What is the source? Would like to see more.

      • richelieu jr

        Just notes from a little comedy film I made about 15 years ago.. That’s the best of it unfortunately. Most of it is pretty weak tea…

        • 1subgenius

          You have to youtube it if you haven’t.

          • richelieu jr

            I don’t own the rights to it, I don’t think. Work for hire.

  • Illinoisian

    “No money particularly may be accepted as a donation or loan from a person who is “family” to a suppressive person and therefore a potential trouble source.”

    Is the money paid for auditing & other “going up the bridge” services considered a “donation”? Is this the rule that cuts off the possibility of advancing for those who refuse to disconnect with a family member who has left COS?

    • Bella Legosi

      Nail…….meet head. Head meet nail.

      • Illinoisian

        So, the phrasing, “No money particularly may be accepted as a donation or loan . . .” is actually code for “We will deny all services to . . .” — but is worded so that it sounds high-minded and superior, rather than appearing for what it is: coercive and manipulative?

        • Bella Legosi

          😀

          You got it……….Welcome to the Underground Bunker……here is some caek!

          • Illinoisian

            Thanks for the welcome. Back to my laptop after a busy day out. Wanted to thank you before the river of posts carried your welcome waaaaay downstream.

            • Bella Legosi

              You are very very welcome!

              Hint…..Disqus.com saves a lot of trouble finding comments and keeping track of who the hell talks to ya. Kinda why I follow so many damn people. Saves a lot of time and squinting from my phone when I am unable to get to a reasonable computer!

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Isn’t it fun to try to wrap your head around it all?

          • Illinoisian

            Continually amazed by the use of language carefully designed/composed to maintain an acceptable facade while describing policies that are self serving/abusive.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Yep, there really was some brilliance in the design of this evil circle jerk.
              L Ron Hubbard was a master at deceit.

            • Bella Legosi

              You forgot the Parchment in this Circle Jerk
              😛

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Yuck. No, I WISH I could forget that part!!!

            • Bella Legosi

              lol how can you NOT?

              Boys!

            • 1subgenius

              The one thing he was the best at: Greatest Con Man of All Time.

          • Bella Legosi

            It’s even more fun to wrap your head around this craziness and still know they are full of shit! Kinda makes me feel all clever and stuff 😛

            • FistOfXenu

              Wrapping my head around all the DM bullshit wrapped around all the LRH horseshit just makes me feel like my head’s out of shape. No wonder I get these head aches!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist
            • FistOfXenu

              Yup. Just like that.
              (That guy’d do any thing for a laugh wouldn’t he? Any thing except get hitched to a $cientologist)

          • sugarplumfairy

            It hurts.. My brain wants to explode, but I keep telling it ‘relax, brain.. Tony and Claire and Marc and the other members of the justice league have this.. It’ll all be better soon..

        • FistOfXenu

          Sounds more like it. I bet most of Para$citology’s statements that sound benevolent are like that, curved around to sound high minded so you can’t see the knife they’re hiding behind their backs.

          Hey! That kind of phrasing is because L Ruin Humbug was really 1.1 “covert hostility” isn’t it?

  • Captain Howdy

    Thank you Tony and Claire. That was straight and to the point while being very emotionally captivating at the same time.

  • sugarplumfairy

    “I love you very much darling..”

    Jeeez.. I’m trying to imagine the potency of the conditioning that adult scientologists willingly subject themselves to.. That email tragically illustrates the agony of the Sophie’s choice that Claire’s mom was feeling in trying to figure it all out..

    She loves Claire.. It’s palpable.. But it comes down to Claire’s stepdad’s ‘I can’t do solo nots if you keep your daughter..’ And this is a vignette that is played over and over and over and over again.. And for no other reason than to further he self-serving agenda of the church of leverage..

    All these moms and daughters and fathers and sons and brothers and sisters are sacrificing the love of their families for one reason and one reason only.. MONEY..

    Fuck solo nots..

    • 0tessa

      With ‘Solo NOTS’ you’ll end up ‘solo’, because you’ll have no family and friends left, and the ones inside the cult are never real friends.

      • Mrs Libnish

        But, eventually, they will make really great enemies. Especially when they turn on you and backstab you.

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      Nice Post SPF.
      And so much lost time that will never be recovered…
      There are some things that can never be fixed….mended, but never fixed.

    • Captain Howdy

      nix nots, save the tots

      • cicely neville

        <3, Howdy.

    • FLUNK_101

      Yah.. nice post, SPF. The part about solo nots got to me too. Like a punch in the gut. I’m just glad I never had to disconnect. I came close, just to attest to clear, and had I continued, it would have come up again. Glad I left when I did, and I hope that Claire can someday reunite with her family.

      • sugarplumfairy

        Claire? Or solo nots? Are you kidding me? How is that even a contest?

        Screw (I’ve calmed down a little) solo nots and every other brain-washing, not-building tech and TR lrh ever stole or plagiarized.,

    • cicely neville

      “a Sophie’s Choice’ Exactly. Nutshelled, SPF. I still can’t bear to think about that book; and here it’s happening in real life under our noses.
      We can’t just dismiss these people as deluded fools; that’s a form of disconnection too. Their humanity has been attacked by the Co$ virus; they need help and they certainly deserve compassion.

      • sugarplumfairy

        Remember your reaction when presented with the charachter of the German soldier forcing her to make the choice? Disbelief that there can actually be humans so cruel, right?. But here they are in RL.. And on top of that, they call themselves the most ethical people on the planet..

  • Sherbet

    “No money particularly may be accepted as a donation or loan from a person who is “family” to a suppressive person and therefore a potential trouble source”

    Turning down money from someone like TC…this is a joke, right?

    • FistOfXenu

      Smoke screen? Mirage? I bet they haven’t followed that rule for a while.

      • Sherbet

        I’m waiting for TC to ask for a refund based on that rule. He should get back everything he’s donated since splitting with Nicole.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          And then have to pay back wages to all of the Sea Org he used as slaves to remodel his Hanger, his SUV and his homes.

          Tom Cruise is as big of a pig fuck as Kirstie Alley!

          • Sherbet

            No, Bury, according to the rule, cos won’t accept his money because he’s family to a suppressive person, so he won’t be paying the SO slaves with those tainted dollars. Big refund check coming to the Cruise residence. cos doesn’t want his dirty, suppressive-stained money.

            • FistOfXenu

              BA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA! Glad I’m not incontinent or I’d’ve pissed myself laughing.

            • Sherbet

              Glad I’m not sitting beside you in the Bunker.

            • FistOfXenu

              It’s okay. Mrs FOX is keeping me from feeling lonely.

            • Sherbet

              Ooooo, FOXy ladeeee…Jimi is comin’ to git you…

            • FistOfXenu

              1 of our favorite songs even before the nick name FOX. You must have those OT powerz going.

            • Sherbet

              I do, but in my case, it’s MT powerz, as in MT head.

            • Mark

              Careful! You’re sounding awfully like Travolting in ‘Battlefield Earth’.

            • FistOfXenu

              I finally watched the link to the Battlefield Earth mash up on “leverage”. I tell you the man is like a contagious disease!

          • stillgrace

            For any newbies that want the details of Cruise using slave labor for personal projects, here is the link to Tony’s story in the Voice:

            http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/02/inside_scientol.php

    • Vistaril

      Heh! Are you aware of the . . .

      L Ron Hubbard Law of Commotion: for every policy and piece of tech there is an equal and opposite policy and piece of tech.

      . . . there’s plenty of “tech” and “policy” concerning the taking of money from such people and also from thoset L Ron Hubbard termed “illegal pcs”. Put simply, there is no way in the world Scientology would turn down money even if it means poring over the OEC Volumes to find the required “scripture”.

      (Hat Tip to Hoaxie for the discovering the “law”. There has only ever been one exception identified which, I guess, proves the rule 🙂 )

      • Sherbet

        Oooooohhhhh, Vistaril, I understand now. A further corollary is: “We’re scientology, and we can do whatever we want.”

        Remember writing with “secret ink” (lemon juice) which would be invisible until held over a fire? I think that’s what cos uses to write its rules. Pencil, invisible ink…anything that can be easily ignored or changed at a whim.

        • Captain Howdy

          It’s “do as we say, not as we do” and “some animals are more equal than others”. And that’s been the whole of the law since civilization began.

          • Sherbet

            Dear Captain Anarchist: There has to be some law, or we’d all be making it up as we go along (like lrh), and that doesn’t work, either.

            • Captain Howdy

              What I thought I said was that elitism and the subsequent oppression it brings are endemic to human society. And I’m not an anarchist, I’m a working class conservative socialist..unless I’m really drunk, then I’m an existential nihilist.

              “The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function.”
              – F. Scott Fitzgerald

          • Vistaril

            Or, as Aleister Crowley, L Ron Hubbard’s fellow devil worshipper and “very good friend” wrote . . .

            Do as thou wilt. That is the whole of the law.

            Before being determinedly “handled”, L Ron Hubbard’s son Nibbs said that statement is “The one super-secret sentence that Scientology is built on”.

            • Sherbet

              Wow. Just wow.

            • Mark

              Not quite right (as any pedantic Ordo Templi Orientis member will tell you). Crowley said:

              “Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law”

              (supposedly derived from Greek thelema, but in fact pinched from Rabelais’ ‘fay ce que vouldra’)

              the corollary to which was:

              “Love is the Law, Love under Will”

              (supposedly derived from Greek agape, but in fact filched from St. Augustine’s ‘ama, et quod vis fac’)

              It’s not supposed to mean “do whatever the hell you like”, but a call to first find your True Will (scil. destiny) and then fulfill it – but without imposing on anybody else’s True Will – hence the “love” stuff.

              Crowley later boiled it down still further into cod-mediaeval terms for Gerald Gardner’s concoction of ‘Wicca’ as: “An ye harm none other, do what thou wilt”.

              Of course, it’s all ultimately based on misundertanding/bastardisation of Nietzsche, who seems to have been very popular among sociopathic cult-leaders: Hitler, Crowley, Ayn Rand, Slubbard, Grady McMurtry, and probably now ‘Bootikins’ (Robert Graves’s translation of Caligula).

            • Vistaril

              I stand corrected. Thank you. Of course, we know what L Ron Hubbard thought about “LOVE” . . . someone remind me, where is “LOVE” on the tone scale?

            • Mark

              I’ll bet it was Nibs got it wrong, not you, V! 🙂

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              In George Malko’s “Scientology: The Now Religion” he delves a bit into Dr. A Nordenholz, who published the book that started with the word “Scientologie” (The Science of the Constitution and Usefulness of Knowledge and Knowing” was full title, published in 1934.

              He goes on to say that in 1904 with Dr. Alfred Ploetz he founded a Series called “The Racial, Social, Biological Archive, Including Racial and Social Hygene” … published later in 1944 and “though Dr. Nordenholz’ contributions disappear udring he 1920’s, it has been speculated that the Archive was an important source of much of the racial thinking of Hitler Germany.”

            • Mark

              I’ve been after Malko’s book for ages. Makes ‘Scientologie’ sound awfully like ‘Objectivism’, doesn’t he?

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            I have to believe The Hubster was a member of the Orwell Book Club.

            http://i43.tinypic.com/16giphs.jpg

            • LexiCON

              I suspect he wanted to create 1984

      • FistOfXenu

        Wow! So Liar Ron built enturbulation right into the cult? How clever of him.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        to be nitpicky technical, for every piece, there are Two other pieces. You have your “tech” (auditing, etc) and you have your ethics and then your Admin policies. So it’s a 3-way boxing match.

  • shasha40

    What type of “church” spends most of it’s time figuring ways to make their members fearful of family, learning other things and spying on ex-members ? Everytime I look at the amount of control Scientology has over it’s members , it scares the crap out of me. Claire’s Moms e-mail shows the conflict and agony she felt, yet she still chose to disconnect, because COS , told her she had too. Any group that wields power over it’s members like this Needs to be taken down for the greater good of society as a whole. Don’t mean to be an alarmist , but did we not learn anything with the various cults of the past and their destructive ways ?

    • Gerard Plourde

      “What type of “church” spends most of it’s time figuring ways to make their members fearful of family, learning other things and spying on ex-members?”

      One dedicated to evil. “By their fruits you will know them.”

      • sugarplumfairy

        Amen, Gerard..

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      it’s not a church. its a scam business where 70% + profits are demanded, which makes cult manipulation tactics necessary which in turn makes mafia like silencing tactics necessary.

      • shasha40

        Shit, forgot the sarcasm font ! Could you Please explain that to the US government , I know there’s got to be a way to use the RICO laws against Scion.

  • Robert Eckert

    The link to Claire’s site is broken. EDIT: I think it is just that the parser grabbed the period at the end of the sentence; this should work:

    http://stopdisconnection.com/

    • richelieu jr

      For me too.

    • Bella Legosi

      It’s working for me here on the West Coast

  • The criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology lies about disconnection for the same reason it uses disconnection to control its members: because it’s a cult.

  • 1subgenius

    “Perhaps I am blind to the ramificiations of what I am doing here…There is very little privacy in my life. All of this is very clandestine for me..”

    Very sad and creepy, and illustrates how powerful brainwashing is.

    “These consist of publicly departing Scientology or committing suppressive acts.”

    Neither Katie or Leah was public about departing, and to date have made no statements about it.
    Leah probably committed suppressive acts, though.

    Fascinating.

    • FistOfXenu

      She did. Big time. She asked WHERE’S SHELLY? and people heard her. Maybe some of them even started wondering too when they heard her say it. She shined some sun light on Dracula Miscavige. If that’s not suppressive what is?

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        Especially to a group that thinks getting a head cold is because you pulled it in by being around a suppressive person.

        HELLO? SCIENCE?

        • shasha40

          What ? They don’t know science in Scientology ? Nobody word cleared that one ? lmao !

        • Peter

          Back in the 60s, we learned that whenever we had a cold, it was because we’d lost something and unconsciously replaced that “havingness” with the cold. Oddly, it worked out. 🙂

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            I am going to call in sick tomorrow…

            Hello boss, I can’t come to work. I havingness a cold.

            What do you mean I am fired?….You Suppressive $#%&^%$!!!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              No, no Bury! First, you have to Lose something. So, you have to call in to work and say I lost my keys so I can’t come to work. If I came into work, I’d get a cold, and then I’d have to call in sick. See? NOW does it make scientific sense? You’re welcome.

            • Peter

              As I’ve said before, it was different back then. We didn’t get dinged for minor things like colds.

          • FistOfXenu

            You mean like “Oh no I left my book on the Greyhound!” and you end up with a cold? So could you cure a cold by buying a new book? And if you lost some thing really special to you or some thing expensive is it a worse cold than if you just lose some thing little?

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              The scientific answer is: Yes. And the more expensive your cold is, the more you have to pay the reg.

      • 1subgenius

        I only used “probably” because all we have are third party reports so far.

    • scnethics

      Never fear, suppressive acts are promptly made up for those that haven’t committed them.

      • Bob

        Very true, and verifiable.

    • pronoia

      It is very sad, and I can’t help but feeling that she was also expressing that she wished it was otherwise.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Every major action Hubbard took was a reaction to his trouble with the law. Every major theory Hubbard spewed was a response to his trouble with his mind. Miscavige was not the first to run his organizations into the ground. Hubbard did so many times over. Scientology was his meal ticket when he ran Dianetics down to nothing. His first issue of doublespeak with forked tongue regarding “Disconnection that does not Exist” was in the 60’s after losing several lawsuits and after too many customers leaving due to heavy coercion (sci ethics). This repeated every single decade. In the 80’s most of the multiple orgs in L.A. were losing so many and the orgs so broke, they came very close to closing their doors. I know this because I was on the Finance Committees.

    Miscavige has just dragged the inevitable demise of this 1950’s Orwellian fundamentalist money extraction machine out longer than any expectations to an apocalyptic, fanatical madhouse . Why? How? Let me count the ways…Tom Cruise, John Travolta, Bob Duggan, the donors of free cash and the familial donors of free slave labor.

  • Andrew Robertson

    Claire’s a special person with the ability to be incisive and objective about the reasons why disconnection is necessary in a closed inward looking cult. Her analysis of the evil side of Scientology is important in understanding why intelligent people are sucked in and imprisoned by its seductive allure.

    L Ron Hubbard merely copied what other cult leaders had already realized – that discussion and critical argument might challenge his belief in his own superiority. Hubbard yearned for adulation, he wanted to be considered a savant, someone superior to the common herd.

    The tall stories he spun about his life puts Baron Münchhausen to shame, though these preposterous lies are still touted by those unfortunate souls still trapped in Scientology’s vile and sinister web, unable or foolishly unwilling to notice Hubbard’s successor sucking their life force out of them.

    But, increasingly, like Claire and Marc, the exodus gathers pace and the tipping point comes closer.

    Andrew

    • Machiavellian Midget

      Truly, Andrew, LR Hubbard finding “space is quite warm”; “…almost got hit by a locomotive” on Venus. How can *anyone* swallow the tripe. It’s so obviously whack-a-doo. But people do; smart people of all persuasions can buy into Lafayette Ron’s tripe.

  • 0tessa

    I would very much like to ask the Clintons what they think of Scientology Inc now. Do they regret their intervention from above?

    • Spackle Motion

      That’s assuming that they give a crap and actually read small stream media. From what I understand, only a few federal politicians are aware of Scientology’s crimes.

      If Kerry Kennedy had no clue until she started reading her email and having her minions do the research they should have done before she got cozy with CCHR, then most of DC has no clue.

      • Bella Legosi

        Does anyone know of Co$ lobbying habits? If they do lobby politicians then they do know about some of their crimes, but are horribly complacent.

        • Spackle Motion

          I know that Monique Yingling had some deep DC ties with her husband (who is really ill or recently passed away…I can’t recall). Scientology keeps a lot of lawyers employed, including those working the Hill. But I believe the influence is waning after Yingling’s husband stopped his efforts.

          The height of their DC influence was during the Clinton years. From what I’ve read, the Bush years kept Scientology at bay (a lot of the religious right believe Scientology to be a dangerous cult, which amuses me to no end).

          • Bella Legosi

            It amuses me too Spackle and the irony is not lost. I grudgingly accept that W. did good things! I am working on it tho!

            Thanks for the info! Those who have access to the lawyer world seem to be more in the know about Co$ then most professions. However, when I have brought them up to some legal minds some of them sigh and treat it like a dirty subject.

            I want an unlimited subscription to LexisNexus damn it! I would be lost for days if I had unfettered access to that data base!

            • Spackle Motion

              LexisNexis is a beautiful thing. When I first got it as a law student (and it was a “free” subscription….the tuition I paid definitely was not free) I really wished that I had more time to poke around because I’m a research hound. This was pre-Google but I learned all of my Boolean search tricks from LexisNexis.

              Scientology fueled an entire legal industry here in Los Angeles and it wasn’t much of a dirty subject in these parts, but you can throw a stone and hit a handful of attorneys that master “defense attorney math” (i.e. attorneys that are fast and loose with their ethics and logic). Maybe I just know different legal minds than you do.

              It’s sad when you see someone you despised in law school for being an unethical turd become a celebrated talking head on cable news. I really hated law school because of the people I met there. It sickened me.

            • 1subgenius

              A judge I know tried to bribe a friend of mine to take his bar exam for him.
              My friend didn’t, but you know the judge eventually found someone else.
              And having said that, I don’t believe lawyers are any more or less ethical, as a group than the general public, as sad, or hopeful, as that sounds. (Ducks and covers)

          • Andrew Robertson

            Gerald A. Feffer died in March this year. His obituary from the ‘Washington Post’

            http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-03-04/local/37435332_1_helmsley-case-leona-helmsley-helmsley-hotel-chain

            A more detailed account about him and Monique Yingling courtesy of Andreas here:

            https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.religion.scientology/nlwSOSug_8k

            Andrew

            • Bella Legosi

              Thank you!

        • JonathanRoberts

          Open Secrets dot Org for all your researching needs
          http://www.opensecrets.org/
          Scientology has cut back to around 2003 levels guess their money is getting tight. However they still lobbied for Immigrant Work Visa issues, need to fill those orgs.

          • Bella Legosi

            Thank you for the link! I love sites like this……OMG I am never gonna get the retarded training crap done today now!

        • 0tessa

          A lot of lobbying has been going on in Europe’s center Brussels and it still is.

          • Bella Legosi

            *shudders*

    • RMycroft

      “I did not have sex with that cult.”

    • pronoia

      Interesting question! And my guess, is that if they’ve seen anything at all of all the bad publicity, they would rather that there had never been an association. Look how fast Kerry Kennedy backed out of the Anne Archer event when she was made aware the scientology connection

  • Racnad

    Tommy Davis and Scientology spokespeople need to method-9 word clear and clay demo the word “coercion.”

    • Studious Judious

      I would like to see every Scientologist have to word clear “Chairman of the Board” and “Dictator”

      Who knows, maybe they will realize that if there is no Board of Directors the title of COB is false.

      And speaking of the Board of Directors, are the charters for the various Scientology corporations available. I’d love to read over the rules on how COB is elected/deposed.

      • Sherbet

        Interesting question. Is there a board?

        • Studious Judious

          the wikipedia article for RTC actually discusses this. There is apparently, an actual BoD. As of 2001 corporate officers were Warren McShane, Laurisse Stuckenbrock, and Barbara Griffin.

          Here is a quote from David Miscavidge himself that was made during a deposition on July 19, 1990.

          “THE CORPORATIONS WERE SET UP TO AVOID POWER PUSHES OF THE NATURE THAT WE SAW WITH THE MISSION HOLDERS WAS TO ENSURE THAT ANY MEMBER OF A CHURCH CORPORATION HAD TO BE A MEMBER IN GOOD STANDING WITH THE CHURCH, MEANING THEY COULDN’T BE A SQUIRREL, OR NOT A MEMBER OF SCIENTOLOGY, AND ALSO BE A BOARD OF DIRECTOR AT THE SAME TIME.

          PART OF THE QUALIFICATION FOR BEING ON THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS, IF I REMEMBER EXACTLY, WAS THAT THEY HAD TO BE IN GOOD STANDING WITH THE MOTHER CHURCH, AND THERE WAS AN, INHERENT IN THE CORPORATE PAPERS WAS THAT THE PERSON HAD TO BE IN GOOD STANDING”

          Sorry for the all caps, that was copy/pasted from the transcript.

          Again, I’d sure like to see the Articles of Incorporation.

          • Sherbet

            Thanks, SJ. Interesting. It’s total BS that the Board directs anything, but interesting.

      • RMycroft

        Years ago, someone got a list of all the directors/trustees of the various CoS dummy corporations. With all the defections, deaths and people sent to The Hole, I wonder how many of them are now “operating” without the legal number of directors/trustees, or did David Miscavige appoint new nobodies to fill the gaps?

        Due to his paranoia on a pogo-stick, he collects undated resignations from all his appointees. However, if he ever uses one of those, it will document that he really does run the whole show.

      • Studious Judious

        I did a little digging and found

        http://www.savescientology.com/rtcarticles.pdf

        Definitely an interesting read

  • ze moo

    ‘Leverage’ as used by great and powerful Hubbtard, is the ability to force another to do what you want them to do. The action need not be in the other persons interest or even something they want to happen. $cientology is all about manipulating others for your goals. Be it selling another set of leather bound Basics or an imaginary time share in Clearwater, you must bend to 4.0 intention. Leverage is a central tenet of $cientology, they just don’t advertise it much.

    Disconnection is a tool used to leverage people and force complacence with what ever ‘orders’ or ‘intentions’ of some auditor or case supervisor or any one in the hierarchy of CO$. The motto of CO$ is ‘knowing how to know’, it really is ‘knowing whom to obey’. Obedience is the final product of $cientology, not a free and inquiring mind.

    Fraud is a common tool used to separate the mark from their money. From Wikipedia entry on ‘battlefield earth’.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlefield_Earth_%28film%29

    “The project was eventually taken on by an independent production company, Franchise Pictures,
    which specialized in rescuing stars’ stalled pet projects. Travolta
    signed on as a co-producer and contributed millions of dollars of his
    own money to the production, which was largely funded by a German film
    distribution company. Franchise Pictures was later sued by its investors
    and was bankrupted after it emerged that it had fraudulently overstated the film’s budget by $31 million.”

    I wonder how long it took for Travolta’s finances to recover?

    • Robert Eckert

      LRH loved using the word “leverage” repetitiously:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Gh0rCM6SEU

      • Bella Legosi

        No award should ever be awarded to that POS! You know just looking at him makes my blood pressure go up!

        I try to press the delete button in my mind in regards to that movie, but alas it never goes away!

        • Mark

          (‘Evil’ Psychlo voice): “Ha: hahaha-HA; hah-hah-HAA-ha-ha. Hee-ho-ho-ha-ha; ha! Ack! Oh bugger I’ve just swallowed one of my dreadlocks…”

          • ze moo

            Much better then ‘my codpiece rode up and now I am sterile’…..

            • Mark

              Oh, I dunno – I forgot about the codpieces (not having watched this dreck for years).

              Now you’ve got me wondering: would they have needed special Psychlo merkins if there’d been any (gag) bedroom scenes?

            • FistOfXenu

              Shouldn’t that have dreadlocks? And strange tubes coming out of it?

            • Mark

              I hope you weren’t encouraging me to find pictures of strange rubberwear – like what certain people uploaded here yesterday, the smutty devils. But I think I’ve found what should’ve happened to Johnny ‘Goodboy’ Tyler, the LRon-as-he-imagined-himself hero of the piece:

            • sugarplumfairy

              That’d be a bitch to wax..

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        What did you think the “L” stood for?

        • FistOfXenu

          I think we just finished defining LRH’s design of Para$citology using his name.
          Leverage Ruin Humbug.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Good one. I’m going to alter it a little, since I am an SP Squirrel, to:
            Leverage Ruin Huckster.

            • FistOfXenu

              You obviously out rank me and you’re higher up the Bridge than me so I can’t argue. Or in other words, “I don’t have the rank to challenge you”

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              My hubby is having a good laugh reading that! Hey, wait a sec. He’s still laughing.

            • Robert Eckert

              You don’t have the FUCKING rank, you mean.

            • FistOfXenu

              Of course. What was I thinking?

        • Vistaril

          Everyone knows that . . .

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Oh noze, I had a crashing MU…back to the dinktionaries.

          • sugarplumfairy

            He needs a big ol’ Laverne-style L on that sweater.. for Loooooooooser..

        • 1subgenius

          In the wonderful A Very Merry Unauthorized Children’s Scientology Pageant
          a young girl says, “Some say the L stands for Liar, but that’s not true. It stands for Lafayette.”
          See what the writer did there? Did not refute the Liar claim. Frickin’ brilliant.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            I love that!

          • Captain Howdy

            The L stands for love
            The L stands for life
            The L stands for lead us out of strife
            The L stands for health
            The L stands for hope
            The L stands for teach us how to cope
            And when we’re felling pain
            We say his name
            There is no other
            L.. Ron.. Hubbard!

            • Missionary Kid

              Please, I’m having trouble keeping breakfast down.

            • FistOfXenu

              W
              T
              F
              ?

              For that you should be made to hear Humbug lectures over and over.Or read Diarrhetics over and over. Or both.

            • Missionary Kid

              Captain Howdy, report to the Hole.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Is that for real, Captain?

              This one is supposed to be:

              Fuhrer, my Fuhrer, give me by God.
              Protect and preserve my life for long.
              You saved Germany in time of need.
              I thank you for my daily bread.
              Be with me for a long time, do not leave me, Fuhrer.
              My Fuhrer, my faith, my light, Hail to my Fuhrer!

            • Captain Howdy

              It’s from the “L Ron Hubbard” song from ” A Very Merry Unauthorized Children’s Scientology Pageant”. I’m going to put it up on YT as soon as I figure out how to use the video maker I downloaded..

            • sugarplumfairy

              I love that you shared that but I’m physically incapable of up arrowing it..

            • Captain Howdy

              Once you hear the song you will be singing it at work, in the shower, at he bar…

              Bwahahahahahaha!

  • Mrs Libnish

    Claire, that is a great website and sorely needed. I hope it helps educate many people regarding the horrible practice of disconnection, and possibly, bring disconnected families back together. At the very least, it will give great support to those who suffer through it.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      and it is a spectacular idea! and she must be doing this in her spare time, somewhere between making mud pies and bath time with her handful of little bakers.

      • 1subgenius

        She has what, 3 kids?
        Spare time? Heh. Thing of the past.

    • richelieu jr

      The link doesn’t work for me unfortunately….

      • Sherbet

        Copy and paste.

  • Sherbet

    Claire is so clear and articulate. She would make a good, honest journalist. Tony, move over.

  • Truthiwant

    The link to Claire’s site links back to the Bunker saying Not Found.
    I can get the site by writing it in directly obviously.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Scientology’s Customer Service Department: Ethics
    Scientology’s Complaint Department: Ethics
    Scientology’s Personnel Department: Ethics
    Scientology’s Community Service Department: Ethics
    Scientology’s Family Outreach Center: Ethics
    Scientology’s Refunds Department: Legal via Ethics

    Any questions? (see Ethics)

    • richelieu jr

      Ethics
      Nix Ethics
      Ethics
      FLUNK!

  • Studious Judious

    It was our love and altruism that allowed us to be deceived. Those which knowingly used this love against us for their own enrichment shall, hopefully, feel the full force of guilt. May they all see the truth, repent, and be forgiven.

    • Zana

      Yes… it was our love and good will that allowed us to be deceived. Even so… I really am happy to allow the balance of natural law grind them up in their own hate while we all go on to lead happy, fabulous lives filled with love, good will and tremendous joy.

      “Love is the only miracle there is. Love is the ladder from hell to heaven. Love learned well, you have learned all. Love missed…you have missed your whole life.” – Osho

    • Missionary Kid

      It seems Marty hasn’t reached that stage.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Hello, SJ, and welcome to the Bunker. Love your avatar. We were talking about The Paper Chase just a couple of days ago.

      • Studious Judious

        Thanks DDD. I’ve lurked for a very long time. And that discussion on the Paper Chase was indeed my inspiration for the avatar.

    • sugarplumfairy

      Don’t postpone anything important while you wait.. The ones working the scam for their own enrichment aren’t the types to feel guilt or remorse..

  • scnethics

    “Self determinism” is re-defined early on in scientology, during the “Objectives”, which are the second step on the “Bridge”. During this step, one is manipulated toward the “realization” that if one is given a command, one can obey that command and yet remain self-determined by internally choosing for oneself to do what was commanded and THEN obeying. Scientologists use this trick on themselves for the rest of their time in scientology. Faced with an order to disconnect, a scientologist will figure out how this is justified (the church helps by telling them what a bad, bad SP they’ll be disconnecting from), and then will “choose” for themselves to disconnect.

    If you are reading this, scientologist, know that that brief sickness in your stomach you get when you play this trick on yourself is the way the real YOU feels about the crime you are committing against yourself, your family and humanity.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      What you said.

      “’Psychiatry’ and ‘psychiatrist’ are
      easily redefined to mean ‘an anti-social enemy of the people‘. This
      takes the kill crazy psychiatrist off the preferred list of
      professions…The redefinition of words is done by associating
      different emotions and symbols with the word than were
      intended…Scientologists are redefining ‘doctor‘, ‘Psychiatry’ and
      ‘psychology’ to mean ‘undesirable antisocial elements‘…The way to
      redefine a word is to get the new definition repeated as often as
      possible. Thus it is necessary to redefine medicine, psychiatry and
      psychology downward and define Dianetics and Scientology upwards.
      This, so far as words are concerned, is the public opinion battle
      for belief in your definitions, and not those of the opposition. A
      consistent, repeated effort is the key to any success with this
      technique of propaganda.”

      – L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard
      Communications Office Policy Letter, 5 October 1971, PR Series 12,
      “Propaganda by Redefinition of Words”

    • Bob

      Very true and accurate.

  • Racnad

    How is other-determined disconnection not an overt on the 2nd Dynamic (family) and 3rd Dynamic (friends). For an organization so focused on out-2D this is quite an oversight.

    • Bella Legosi

      But, isn’t taught that your 2D and 3D are already being put at risk by such people? And wouldn’t it stand to {reason} that if you apply the PTS/SP tech you can “fix” those issues as soon as you have disconnected from those people and find the true theatens inside?

    • Zana

      Right on!

    • Vistaril

      Nope. Not an “oversight” and easily explained: sacrificing the second and third dynamics is for “the greatest good” because it assists the first dynamic plus the remaining five. Bear in mind that L Ron Hubbard’s {scripture} deals with eternity, thus, a person has had many families and will have many more so what’s just one family when we are talking about the whole, agonising future of all mankind?

      Supplementing this mindfuck are many other tracts of L Ron Hubbard Scientology {scripture} such as . . .

      “The GE [Genetic Entity = degraded being] is a family man. The GE is lost without the family. It’s very strange but Homo Sap is a family unit. The GE is built on that basis . . .

      And your thetan, by the way, can much more easily go into a group. Families are not good groups.”

      and . . .

      “We mustn’t mention this because, God help us, there goes the moral code. Penicillin took out the disease level and now… [a person] can take a couple of beams of energy…. and terminate a pregnancy. Nothing wild or forceful or upsetting or anything like that. Just make sure the tube opens. It’s very simple. There are muscles and so forth that contract and expand at a certain period every month, and that sort of thing.

      “Pregnancies that have been as much as three months advanced have been terminated that way… Isn’t this fascinating? So you’ve got something like birth control sitting right there in theta clearing… It’s just deadly. One, two, three!”

      ^^^^PDC Lecture Series

      . . . watta guy.

      • Sherbet

        What in hell is lrh talking about, with all his “sort of things” and “isn’t it fascinatings” and “so forths.” It’s obvious — OBVIOUS — the man was just filling air with his pronouncements about things for which he had no background or education or even rudimentary knowledge. When he talks about pregnancies and terminating them, as if he’s discussing stepping on a bug, I’m disgusted and furious. lrh was a lunatic con man, nothing less. I usually don’t care what an indie believes, but, my God!, just listen to what the madman said!

        • Vistaril

          Here’s a drinking game for when listening to L Ron Hubbard lectures:

          1) one full glass every time He asks the audience what the date is

          2) one gulp every time He says “now isn’t that interesting”

          3) one sip every time He puts down science and/or academia and/or wogs generally

          HEALTH WARNING: Don’t try this with the Philadelphia Doctorate Course.

          • Sherbet

            What? Nothing for his “and so forth”?

            //hic// Thank goodness for narconon.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              There is a Neuroscience author I (used to) like to read and he uses that flipping “and so forth” crap as much as Hubbard.
              After I read that for, like the seventh time in the first chapter of his last book…..I shut it off and haven’t read another word.

              Shit, It is like saying Yada, yada, yada.
              At that point…….damn it …just don’t speak!
              You aren’t saying anything!

              Rant over. Carry on.

            • Sherbet

              Exactly, Bury!

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            You’d be dead by Tape #2 on the PDC. By Tape #20, you’d finally be exterior OT, but still deader than a doorknob.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        IN the latest Ron Encylopedia…is one of the volumes “Ron, The Family Man?” I’ll bet not. Anyone know?

        • FistOfXenu

          Just a single paragraph: “Ron was such a devoted family man that he had more than 1. It wasn’t his fault that all his wives and kids were 1.1 secret agents of The Evil Psychs that just wanted to sabotage Mankind’s Greatest Friend and destroy every body’s eternity. In spite of those overwhelming odds LRH has left us a lasting legacy of ethical perfection in his shining example and ruthless policy. He used his creative genius to demonstrate all the different methods there are to disconnect from family members and generally screw them over, and he showed his unswerving devotion to the greater good by doing this not to 1 but 3 wives. And 1 of his wives he disconnected from her so completely that he denied they were even married. What a man! What a philanthropist! What a friend to mankind! We love you Ron! Thanks!”

          • Phil McKraken

            “And 1 of his wives he disconnected from her so completely that he denied they were even married.”

            One of my favorite Ron moments is when he’s being interviewed and is unexpectedly questioned about his 2nd wife. His response: “… never had a second wife.” Uh, wut? Is Mary Sue your 1st wife or is she your 3rd wife without an intervening 2nd one? Goes to show the great man couldn’t think on his feet with all those pinks and grays swimming around in his demon blood.

  • Mark

    “Any PTS who fails to either handle or disconnect from the SP…” [my italics].

    Even the possibility of a a rank-and-file Co$ member ‘handling’ a PTS or SP never seems to come up these days – it’s ‘disconnect’ or nothing. Unless, of course, you happen to be a certain asthmatic steroid-addicted shrinkydink called David Miscavige. But as DM is (in his own estimation) the Biggest Brain In The Universe, and all rank-and-filers are incompetent cretins by comparison, DM just has to go on doing all this ‘handling’ himself…

    And note Slubbard’s misuse of his own invented word with that jarring ‘enturbulence’: wouldn’t plain old ‘enturbulation’ read more smoothly there? I know it’s nonsense on stilts any way, and his mind produced nothing but putrid verbal pus – but he wasn’t even making sense to himself!

    • stillgrace

      “putrid verbal pus”??? There went my breakfast! Thanks, Mark! ; )

      • FistOfXenu

        Good phrase isn’t it? Explains what happened to his cyst. It got smaller and smaller as he wrote and talked more and more until he got it all down on paper or on tape reels. Well we knew he never would go to a doctor with it right?

      • Mark

        I’m sorry, Grace. I keep forgetting about the time-difference.

        (Lucky for you I didn’t use my original choice of “verbal leucorrhoea”. DON’T google that; it must be getting on for lunchtime where you are now). 😉

    • Missionary Kid

      Since you came up with another great description of LRH’s works:

      L. RON HUBBARD’S WRITING AND SPEECH
      codswallop:
      WordWank
      logorrhea
      bloviating
      verborrhea.
      Guanophrenic (Batshit crazy)
      He talked in a special dialect called “Ronorrhea”. Ronorrhea rhymes with gonorrhea.
      Dianuttics
      Dianutty
      Verbiage
      Snake Oil
      CLAMidia
      COBbastic (Goes for DM, too).
      putrid verbal pus

      • Mark

        “Ronorrhea” is my favourite!

        • Missionary Kid

          All are courtesy of your fellow Bunkerites

  • Bella Legosi

    Was up late and watching Patty Duke. The song gave me a bit of an idea…….I am trying to pull out another “Old Time of Rock and Roll” but I am no lyricist!

    Still, they’re Theatens,
    Identical theatens and you’ll find,
    They laugh alike, they walk alike,
    At times they even talk alike —

    You can lose your mind,
    When theatens are two of a kind.

    • Sherbet

      I’d rather have insomnia than watch “The Parent Trap.”

      • Bella Legosi

        lol its the Patty Duke show 😛

        Tell me about it, I have had that infernal song stuck in my sleep deprived mind since 3am! When I was introduced to this show at a young age, I never got the whole “identical cousins”. I was like, “Why aren’t they just twins?”

        • Sherbet

          What the heck am I thinking of?? Oh! Hayley Mills in The Parent Trap. That had the equally egregious tune: “Let’s get together, yeah, yeah, yeah.” I’m sure that really gave the Beatles a run for their money back then.

          • Bella Legosi

            It’s all good. I thought it was a crappy rip off of the Parent Trap too or vice versa…….not sure which came first……..The Patty or the Haley…….all I know is that show hurts my brain sometimes.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Disney’s Parent Trap movie with Haley Mills was in 1961. Patty Duke TV show was ’63 – 66. And yes, that tune is one of those nasty “repeaters”.

            • Sherbet

              Parent Trap had a stupid premise. Talk about disconnection! Imagine splitting up a set of twins between their divorcing parents as if they were table lamps?

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              “as if they were table lamps”

              Oh my that was funny.
              That was not supposed to be funny.
              But that was darn funny!!!

            • Sherbet

              Sure, it was supposed to be funny, Bury!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              I never liked it. And I liked Patty the kook rather than her chilly cousin. Also, I remember wishing my parents would let Me get by with half the stuff she did.

            • Missionary Kid

              The worst it, of course, It’s A Small World.

          • Missionary Kid

            Nope, it didn’t give the Beatles a run for their money. It was only an attempt to imitate.

          • FistOfXenu

            That song was a fungus back then. 1 of the good things about being in the Corps back then was Hayley Mills song was as popular as the rot. Only had to worry about it when we went off base.

            • Sherbet

              I was thinking the “yeah, yeah, yeah” was supposed to mimic the Beatles, but, in 1961, the Beatles hadn’t become famous yet.

            • Spackle Motion

              “That song was a fungus”. Comment of the week. I’m going to try to use that in conversation today.

            • FistOfXenu

              And I’ll send the lawyers after you for ripping off commercial secrets from my religious org. You realize all the bennies and nitrous I had to do to think that up? And I had to grow a cyst on my head so I could create all that putrid verbal pus. And you’re just gonna use it without being regged and sec checked and made to word clear some books and pay for it all? You criminal SP you!

        • CraftLass

          Seriously, it was the most ridiculous premise for a show. But, considering that Patty Duke’s childhood wasn’t any better than a 2nd- or 3rd-gen $cientologist’s, what an appropriate song to parody here! Poor kid, she was really given a raw deal in the parent lottery. Her autobiography is so sad and revealing, you can see how much those who raised her destroyed her sanity just by her writing flow, forget the actual words (which will make you cry as well).

          • Bella Legosi

            Thank you. I haven’t wikied Patty Duke and know next to nothing about her outside of this show! I am going to rectify that like now…..I am intrigued!

        • 1subgenius

          Oh shi-, now I’ll be up all night trying to figure that one out.
          Google here I come.

        • Captain Howdy

          Yeah, it’s the same thing with Samantha and Serena on Bewitched. Why are they not identical sisters? Who ever heard of identical cousins? Shit like that messes with a kid’s head and makes them turn to drugs down the road.

          • CraftLass

            You know, I never considered this in context with those shows, but I have an identical cousin. Well, we were identical as kids, until our 20s, when her hair got a lot darker than mine did (not that I’ve had my natural color at any point in that time, anyway lol). What really makes it weird is we are not blood relatives as I was adopted. She lives in Italy, we met in person when I had just turned 11 and she was 9 or 10, and it is spooky to look at the pics of us together! For awhile I wondered if I was actually the hushed-up child of a relative, but I’ve pretty much confirmed that’s not the case (my family is full of gossip, hiding that nugget for 37 years would be impossible lol).

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            Ditto I dream of Jeannie and her identical cousin (also Serena).
            WTF!

          • stillgrace

            Oh yeah. I just found out that my oldest cousin (who is the spitting image of my departed mother) may very well be my half-sister. {I am now turning to drugs to deal with this.} Not really, but it might help! ; )

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Whoa Nelly? What?

            • stillgrace

              Yep. My browski dropped the bombshell on my sister and me the other day. My mother came from an extremely strict and devoted Catholic family, which might explain things. News is messing with me.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              This happened a Lot for many decades. My hubby found out when his mom passed that he had an aunt he never knew about. Seems those who had “issues” back in the day were whisked away and they just “disappeared” off the family tree. It was hard to get married or sometimes even certain types of job if you had a close family member with um, “issues”.

            • stillgrace

              Thanks, THDNE. Family secrets. Abortion is just not an option in a strict Catholic family. I guess “whisking away” and/or stretching the truth is OK, though. (??) My mom and her sister are not here to defend themselves, so I don’t know what to think.

            • Lurkness

              Laugh. Think about all the worry and scheming the poor Dears went through, but know ultimatey they acted out of love and commitment to keep the family together in the times and circumstances in which they lived. I am sure there are awkward and strange things you will find to laugh about with your sister and family. Hope you don’t take this the wrong way, but in my family I always look for the humor in these things. If they don’t “get over it,” they are in for an SPF/Cher smack.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              I imagine it is. Well work through it slowly and pragmatically.
              And best of luck absorbing all of this.

            • stillgrace

              Thank you. Things are even worse. Mr. Grace’s brother took his life last Friday, so I’m dealing (running away?) by hanging out here. I’m also on call for jury duty this week, but haven’t had to show up yet. Not that I mind civic duty, it’s just not a good week.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Oh my gosh. I am so sorry to hear that.

              Well I will try to distract you with:

            • stillgrace

              Ha! That helps. A good cat meme always cheers me up! As the guy in the movie Splash said: “What a WEEK I’m having!”

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              I am postulating positive vibrations. And vodka!

            • stillgrace

              Thanks for the good vibes. I’ll have to hold off on the vodka, until after 1:00 pm PDT, when I check my jury status for today. I may have to drive. If not, I’m going for mojitos. I just watered my mint plants, so that ingredient will be fresh and crisp!

            • Captain Howdy

              Pfffft! They sent me a notice for jury duty last year and I scrawled across it “I am a scientologist and we do not recognize your authority in this sector of the galaxy”.

              They sent me a notice back about having to get a letter from my clergyman and to bring it down to the court. I threw that in the garbage.

            • stillgrace

              I wish I had your panache! I read the fine print about the $1,500 fine and/or five days incarceration and decided to tow the line! John P. brought up a good point, and if I’m not feeling up to it, I will certainly postpone. I have documentation that proves my case.

            • Missionary Kid

              In some jurisdictions, they’ll issue a bench warrant for doing what the Cap’n did, but usually not.

              I’ve served on several juries. On one, years ago, we found a man innocent because the prosecution left out one detail. It was a difficult case, and the prosecutor was Sneddon, the same guy who later prosecuted Michael Jackson and lost.

            • Captain Howdy

              You can postpone it. And as far as I know there could be a warrant out for me. I better be good!

            • stillgrace

              No jaywalking for you!

            • Bella Legosi

              I noticed and was told by my lawyer type teacher that they really do not like to have those who study the law on jury’s. I usurped my jury duty until sometime last year. When it came time for them to do that question interview I told them I was in school under an AAS program regarding Paralegal (worst mistake I made financially EVER), there was another girl who had just graduated and worked for a lawyer. We both got the ax. Now I am in the clear for 2 years.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Same here.. Love you, Grace..

            • Missionary Kid

              Wow, Grace, with all of the things happening to your family this week, what I want to do is give you a hug. You’re a beacon of clarity here.

              My story is not heart-wrenching, because everything took place so long ago.

              Both my father and his father were preachers. Fundamentalist, straight-laced, bible-thumping preachers. The grandfather was in Sweden, where he was not a part of the State Church of Sweden, but a circuit preacher in the late 1800s, traveling to several small congregations. All my cousins, here and in Sweden, learned from our parents to look up to my grandfather, even though many of us had never met him.

              When one of my Swedish uncles died, my cousins got a call from a woman, asking if she could come to the funeral. My cousin asked, quite naturally, who she was. It turns out that while granddad was on his circuit, he did a little extra ministering, and the now elderly woman was the result.

              That scandal is why the family had moved away from most of their relatives to a farm.

              When one of my American cousins asked my uncle if he knew about it, he answered, “Yes, but we never talk about it.”

              From then on, the woman was included in family gatherings.

            • stillgrace

              Thank you for sharing your story. Thanks to the good people in the Bunker, I don’t feel so alone in my confusion.

            • Missionary Kid

              There are not only grief counselors available, but support groups for people who have lost loved ones. I want to encourage everyone to participate, or at least check out the options.

              Here is some information I got just by Google.
              http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletters/Harvard_Womens_Health_Watch/2009/July/Left-behind-after-suicide

              Here are two support groups.
              http://www.survivorsofsuicide.com/resource_links.shtml
              http://www.afsp.org/coping-with-suicide/find-support/find-a-support-group

              I hope that’s of some help.

            • MissCandle

              You are not alone. Ever.

            • Couch_Incident

              It’s tough to deal with. A friend of mine who is an excellent psychologist found out her dad had a child (her half-brother) with his high school girlfriend and put the baby up for adoption. Even as a psychologist, my friend had to get counseling from others to try and process the altered landscape.

            • DeElizabethan

              Don’t forget Hospice, even for suicide and free of charge.

            • Captain Howdy

              Damn, and I thought my life sucked. Well, at least it’s not some kind of ‘Chinatown” thing. I had a best friend who killed himself a couple of years ago, and I still don’t why, and I still get very sad, frustrated and angry when I think about it.

              I don’t know what to say except… “life sucks and then you die”…J/K

              You’ll be alright..I can tell.

            • stillgrace

              Thank you, Captain. It’s been really hard on my son, who loved his uncle. My son just says: I’m OK-ish.

            • John P.

              Grace,

              I am terribly sorry to hear about your brother-in-law’s death. It seems that the number of suicides at this point in time is off the charts. I know four people who have lost kids or siblings due to suicide or death from drug overdose (i.e., slow-motion suicide) in the last six months. My pointing this out, of course, doesn’t make it easier to bear. But I bring it up because about the only thing that helps in a circumstance like this is the knowledge that you are not alone.

              Please make sure that Mr. Grace gets the support he needs from professional quarters should that prove necessary; most men, myself included, have a tough time admitting they are lost and floundering in the face of crushing personal loss. And we don’t reach out when we need to, and can suffer mightily as a result.

              Incidentally, it should be relatively easy to get jury duty rescheduled in a circumstance like this. Go to the courthouse and talk to the jury commission people. As long as you’re proposing to come at a future date in a reasonable length of time (not 37 years from now, but in a month or two), they should be pretty reasonable to deal with. They mostly want to make sure that people take jury duty seriously, so if you make the appropriate noises, they don’t really care when you are there.

            • Missionary Kid

              Thanks John.

              You put it so much better than I could. That was Gracious of you.

            • stillgrace

              Thank you so much, John. Your reply really helps. I’m keeping an eye on Mr. Grace. I am grateful that he is limiting his engagements. The whole family feels guilty, and at the same time resentful. Tough combination.

            • Missionary Kid

              It’s my limited experience that there is both sadness at the death and anger at the deceased for departing.

              It is, indeed, a Tough combination.

            • John P.

              I shared your post and my reply with Supermodel #1, who is an evil “psych.”**

              She says (hoping I’m transcribing a brief cellphone conversation accurately enough):

              1) It always takes far longer to get over a suicide (in particular, but any family tragedy in general) than people think. Beware those who are crushed for several days but then rebound instantly and then claim to be fine. Nobody is fine after a suicide. Not to put too fine a point on it, but this is heavy shit that will reverberate for a long time, maybe years, and perhaps forever. Recognizing that and telling the truth about it is part of starting the process to help everyone heal as best they can.

              2) Expect that there will be changes in dynamics of your extended family. There’s a whole school of counseling called “Family Systems Theory” that attempts to look at individuals’ psychological issues in the context of the larger family history and interpersonal dynamics as a way of helping predict issues that may be lurking under the surface. S1 uses this extensively in her work evaluating and treating at-risk children.

              You may or may not be able to influence others in your extended family and help them to heal. But if you understand that a significant change in how others behave towards your husband, towards you, or others, even a couple years from now, may be colored significantly by this tragedy, even if the person doing it doesn’t realize it, then you may be able forgive and find ways to get along, so that you don’t fracture your family any further.

              3) Sometimes, kids think that because a family member committed suicide, that suicide might be contagious, like the flu, and that either one of you might commit suicide without warning, or they might be tempted to do so and be powerless to stop themselves. It would be unwise to speculate in a medium like this what specifically would work for talking to your kids, but get outside help in figuring out how to talk about this issue with them if you need to.

              I went through this when a relative was institutionalized for several months for depression after a suicide attempt; my then-teenage kids thought that they might “catch it” or at least have the gene pool to be stricken by the same disease. It took a couple weeks of random acting out before I figured out that the bad behavior epidemic was driven by unvoiced fears over their aunt’s hospitalization. I found out that these self-assured know-it-all teenagers responded pretty well to the kind of repetitive, gentle reassurance that works with five-year-olds (though I upped the vocabulary level and the amount of hard science on the genetic heritability so’s not to seem patronizing).

              —–
              ** “Evil psych” is Supermodel #1’s day job; she no longer walks the runways in Paris and Milan but she is still a card-carrying supermodel. For fun, these days, she does photo shoots as a fitness model, as a shining example of the new breed of over-50 fit woman. In her case, “fit” doesn’t mean “socializes at the gym a couple times a week;” it means “will rip the lungs out of a 26-year-old male in an ultra-marathon race if he doesn’t get out of her way fast enough on the trail.”

            • stillgrace

              Thanks for the definition of “fit”. Still chuckling. On a serious note, thank you and Supermodel #1 for the excellent advice. I am a bit worried about my son; I think he’s confused by the memory of his uncle’s big and generous heart and wicked sense of humor. “Why?” is my son’s question. I plan to get help for him to cope. I got a couple of good leads this morning.

            • Robert Eckert

              Unfortunately, that question “Why?” is never going to get an answer.

            • stanrogers

              As someone who was once genuinely pissed off to find that he’d survived, the answer is it genuinely seemed like the least-worst option at the time. I didn’t do it at anybody, and nobody pushed me there in any real sense. You can’t reason about depression; the thinking patterns only make sense while you’re there. And no, you can’t always tell from the outside, so any sense of “we should have known” is just a false notion that life should be fair looking for some kind of justice, for someone to blame. It’s a glitch, a bug in the system. And it only takes a moment for it to become a mistake that can’t be corrected, no matter how much anybody wishes it could be. There’s no “bad guy”, and we are ill-equipped to deal with that.

            • stillgrace

              Thank you, Stan. From my heart.

            • Robert Eckert

              I’ve been contemplating suicide frequently this year (jobless, few prospects, feeling like a parasite) but I am not really in much danger of making an attempt (I’m too much of a chicken). The “reasoning” that goes into making suicide seems the best way out is not something that can be explained to someone not in the grip of the black cloud.

            • sugarplumfairy
            • Robert Eckert
            • sugarplumfairy

              Lol.. best reaction ever to one of my virtual smacks..

              I can tell how smart you are from reading your comments.. You’ll fix it.. You know what do to.. can’t do it alone though.. take care, Robert.. We need you here..

            • Couch_Incident

              Hang tough Robert. As they say, it’s is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Reach out to others, including pros. You’re a smart guy and there’s lots more wonder to experience.

              You know this already, but millions of people are being left out of the jobless “recovery”. If it’s any solace, you might want to read the stories of others in a similar boat at Gawker: http://gawker.com/tag/hello-from-the-underclass

            • Captain Howdy

              I’ve had thoughts of suicide since I was like 10 which was when I figured out life would always suck because generally speaking humanity is a horror show.

              I came really close a few times than I decided if the world hates me than let the world kill me. I wasn’t going to do it any favors.

              Plus, death on the installment plan does have it’s worthy moments.

              Stiff upper lip, Robert and watch this.

              http://youtu.be/rDgXeYlpbOE

            • Bella Legosi

              My mom believes that she has killed herself so many times in the past that she thinks that is why her life sucked so much this time. She thinks that if she can make it thru without offing herself this time around then all will be good when she goes back to God and not have to come back.

              I have heard this soooooo many times and at too young an age. I never had real thoughts of suicide because of this. At best I get pissed on the lack of control I have had over a lot of crap in my life and was told that is why I tend to think of violence. Being powerless breeds violent psychopathic thoughts. Well that is what my high school, girls group, counselor told me. I like to think of myself as a giant middle finger to the wretched nature of the world. Well since I am DM height I am not that giant, but whatever I hope you get my point!

            • stillgrace

              I would genuinely MISS you if you weren’t part of the bunker, Robert!! NOOOOOOO!!!
              And thank you for that last explanatory sentence.

            • Robert Eckert

              Thank all of you for your kind remarks. I am not really in any danger of doing anything stupid because I have lived with bouts of depression off and on all my life, and I know that the black thoughts are not reality. I have two half-siblings who have gotten a much worse dose of mental illness (paranoid delusions and the like) so I have to count my blessings (there is also a full sister and a half-sister and two half-brothers who are fine, and nieces and nephews that I need to be the crazy uncle for: I feel bad for your boy wondering why his uncle did not hang in there for him).

            • Sherbet

              Rob-E, if you can’t think of any reason to live, remember the Bunker and how many people love you.

            • Lurkness

              Robert, I am a huge fan of yours. I love your nimble mind, profound thoughts, sound perspective and good humor. While I mostly lurk, I never pass one of your comments. ( Look for the guest votes mostly, LOL! )

              You would be greatly missed here. Hang in there. Never give up!!! Never Surrender!!!

              There’s also so much more J&Ding to do too. Try it on the dark thoughts as well. Works for me when I get myself all *suppressed* about something that seems so important and significant at the time. Those “somethings” never really are when you look back with the perspective of time and new (and old) experiences. Be well my friend and keep moving forward.

            • Captain Howdy

              Beautiful comment, Stan.

            • Lurkness

              Stan, so glad you are here to share these thoughts. Thank you for sharing and speaking out. Keeping all of this in the dark, as we generally have done as a society, only makes those places and thoughts all the darker and dangerous.

            • Missionary Kid

              Excellent advice. I second everything you wrote.

            • Spackle Motion

              If she’s a fitness model, chances are good that I know her identity (or know people that know her).

              Thanks for sharing this information, JP. Please thank SP#1 for this incredible insight. It’s one that I will not forget, it is that valuable.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              My sincerest condolences to you and your family.

            • Sherbet

              So sorry, grace.

            • Mark

              Me too.

            • MissCandle

              Stillgrace, May you and Mr. Grace find the comfort you need to get through this tragedy. And best wishes for figuring out and accepting your new family configuration. All the best from me to you.

            • Couch_Incident

              Grace, I’m sorry for everything that you’re having to cope with at the moment.

            • Casabeca

              I am so sorry you are suffering these shocks at the same time. My sincere condolences to you and yours.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              I keep wanting to up arrow in solidarity but it seems so wrong.
              So hugs instead.

            • Lurkness

              Stillgrace, so sorry you are going through all of this. John is correct, just call the courts and ask for a new period of service (unless you are almost done and they haven’t called–you can always ask for the extension then).

              You have received a lot of great advice, but thought I would add something about your new potential sister from experience. Remember the *secret* only has power over you if you give it such. No doubt in an earlier, less progressed time in our history there was shame attached to this. To this I say, Bullfeathers! Do not give power to the supposed and antiquated shame. This has been happening from the beginning of time and the holier- than-thous and natters ought to just keep their noses in their own surely messed up family business.

              Embrace this! Enjoy the new found relationship. Laugh and Love. As you always do.

            • CraftLass

              Wow, yeah, that sure would mess with you! As I wrote below, for awhile I suspected that might be my situation (also from a Catholic family) and I found a ton of stories like yours. Ugh, it is so hard to understand, in this age, the thought process behind such choices. Hope that you and your family can work through this and it brings you closer in the long run. *hugs*

          • Bella Legosi

            lol and here I was blaming exposure to Cheech and Chong at the age of 7 and Animaniacs for my “green thumb” tendencies! It’s all that whacked out 60’s shows that I sooooo enjoy!
            😛

    • 1subgenius

      That picture always creeps me out.

      • stillgrace

        Oh! Me, too! The self-important, no-smile, big-being lean-in! Couple of buffoons, if you ask me.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          To me it just screams “Metrosexual Thuggery”

          • stillgrace

            TC has that same face when he’s discussing KSW.

            • FistOfXenu

              That’s his sex face isn’t it?

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              He has no sex face.

            • FistOfXenu

              So that’s a yes?

            • FistOfXenu

              So that’s a yes?

          • Lark Smith

            The Dimwitted Duo strikes again…. pictures taken after they mugged an old lady and berated her for “pulling it in”. Idiots

          • FistOfXenu

            The name of a new rap crew in town?

      • Bella Legosi

        Me too. It really does speak to the level to which Tom is involved in this cult and how he reveres Little Boots. Same could be said about the “Freedom Medal of Valor” award. When you see him salute Little Boots he is dead serious as if Winston Churchill gave him this award and Little Boots is all smiles……prolly loving every creepy second of it!

    • 0tessa

      Do they have their own motor gang?

      • FistOfXenu

        They’d get eaten alive if they tried to ride a gang out where real bikers could see them.

        • stillgrace

          DM and C would fight back by biting the real bikers” knees.

          • Mark

            What were they thinking?

            • FistOfXenu

              “Y – M – C – A … Y – M – C – A …” Hey wait! where’s the rest of the guys?

        • Missionary Kid

          Not really, the real bikers would fall off their bikes laughing.

        • RMycroft

          Ride? They probably stand around posing in coffee shop parking lots.

        • sugarplumfairy

          Naaahh.. They’d stare ’em down and annihilate ’em withe their glares.. Wasn’t it Tom who used to practice his big bad being stare in the Kmart parking lot under Tommy D’s tutelage?

      • Captain Howdy

        The Big Beinz MC™

      • Sherbet

        Teegeeack’s Angels MC.

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      BARF!

    • My aren’t they some “big beings” on their big boy bikes!

      • Bella Legosi

        Compensation. Compensation! That is exactly what I think about boys and their motor bikes! No offense to you types here that ride them! I really do not see the attraction!

  • Observer

    OT, but I’m going to back off some here. I’ve had three dreams in the last five days which have had something to do with Scientology, and I’m taking that as a sign that I need to disengage a bit.

    I’ll be here most days, and there will be shoops, but I need to spent more time in RL than I have been lately. You guys are like crack! <3

    • Sherbet

      We’ll miss you, and we’ll keep your seat warm for you. Be back soon, ‘k?

    • shasha40

      I hear and feel ya. Please grace of every now and then with your Masterful shoops ! Take me with you I can’t stop on my own ! lmao

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Your trophy is coming up this week…let Bury know where you want it delivered, she’ll let me know so I can ship it.

      • Observer

        ??

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Oh! You missed the post the other day. The Bunker Southern SP Society party, I mean meeting, this past weekend decided to award you a trophy for your overtime in the Shoops Dept. Here’s a pic, although the text I just added in, so it will look different. oh, it’s only 7″ but hey,

          http://i39.tinypic.com/15ozd35.jpg

          • Observer

            I am honored and almost, but not quite, speechless. Thank you!

            What’s BTN’s email?

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              burythenuts@gmail.com

              You deserve it! We’ll heat up the spa and get the bbq coals ready for you …. you need a spacation at our resort! Anytime. Have a nice break, you deserve it. I said the other day that things have gotten so heavy this last month that I really don’t think I could have made it without the lulz of commentors but mainly your shoops. And you were on fire, girl! I think I speak for most of us here that your efforts are awesome and mucho appreciated.

            • Observer

              Email’s away!

            • Captain Howdy

              I’d believe it when i see it. They probably got smashed and threw it out the window at the SP building as they were careening by.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Hey! We know how to have serious fun and Holey is a dangerously awesome hostess!
              I woke up the next morning face down on her couch!

            • Captain Howdy

              You’re a bunch of hooligans in summer dresses, terrorizing the good scientologists of Clearwater.

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFiN7Zsz2zM

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              See Bury, I Told you that guy sitting in his car in the parking lot had a video cam! The Granny Gang…we’re Busted! and I Knew I should have ironed my bitter frock that day! How embarrassing.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              You got good spidey sense!

            • Casabeca

              I call dibs on Hooligans in Summer Dresses for a band name 😉

            • DeElizabethan

              I woke up not knowing where I was, hee, hee. The fantastic hostess gave bugle call.

            • DeElizabethan

              Plus we had a whole ton of clams, I means oysters, Bury shucked herself ad then a secret recipe.

    • 0tessa

      I completely understand that you feel the need to disengage a bit.

    • FistOfXenu

      We’ll miss you but some times RL is necessary. No point fighting a cult by becoming a cultist.

      • Observer

        Thanks, but I’m not giving the Bunker up–just rationing it. Haha

    • pronoia

      🙁

    • Couch_Incident

      He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does
      not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss
      also gazes into you.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Today’s post made me think about Family Albums. It occurred to me that I have NO pictures when I was in. Of course, today with smartphones and throw away cameras, that seems bizarro. I don’t think other than security and OSA that staff are allowed to run around with cameras though.

    I think it is a good measure of a group and its members to see how there family relationships are working and peek into their Family Album. We’ve seen many of Tom Cruise’s pictures. But what about the Hubbard family and the Miscavige family? All Miscavige has left is his sister who was recently arrested and now in DUI classes and seems to be a wreck. All Hubbard had left is Diana Hubbard Horwich. That alone speaks volume. And what is interesting is you don’t see many pictures of any of them but the ones I Have seen are often haunting.

    Over at ESMB recently I saw pictures of Sara Northrup’s family album. I was dumbstruck when I saw her daughter, Cara Hubbard Northrup Morse and her daughter, Sydney. Cara could pass for a twin of her half sister, Diana Hubbard Horwich. And Sydney reminds me of Diana’s daughter, Roanne (now Hubbard Horwich), when she was little. All with the exception that Cara and Sydney’s smiles are genuine and beaming. Roanne escaped the Hole last year and I wonder all the time when the hell will Diana leave?

    http://i41.tinypic.com/5ff1bk.jpg

  • Michael Leonard Tilse

    Tony, just a comment on this paragraph: “The validity of this policy is borne out by the fact that the US government raids and other troubles were instigated by wives, husbands, or parents who were actively suppressing a Scientologist or Scientology, or who were acting under the influences of persons or agencies who had deliberately misinformed them regarding Scientology. The suppressed Scientologist did not act in good time to avert the trouble by handling the antagonistic family member.”

    I believe that I read this paragraph in scientology policy letters and the ethics book prior to the 1977 FBI raid on two places in Hollywood and the organization in Washington, D.C.

    I think that the raid that was being referred to was the early 60’s raid on the Founding Church of Scientology in D.C. which seized quantities of “Dianazene” and “E-Meters”. I believe this was done by the FDA. The resulting decision was that the E-Meter had to be explicitly labeled as a “religious artifact” of no use in the diagnosis or treatment of illness. This notice had to be put in all the scientology books too.

    The FBI raid in 1977, which I experienced myself was triggered by scientology’s own practice of criminal infiltration and burglary of many agencies of the U.S. Government, not an “antagonistic family member.”

    The “stipulation of evidence” that the scientologists agreed to in that case is an incredible read. It is available on the web: http://www.rickross.com/reference/scientology/scien411.html

    • Captain Howdy
      • Sherbet

        Wow. DIY purif.

        • Mark

          Amazing what crap some people will still swallow. Do they still think it’ll protect them from nukes? And ‘cal-mag’ always reminds me of ‘cagmag’ which is Dickensian slang for rotting meat, or the gunge at the bottom of dustbins.

          Makes you wonder what else the old fraud LRH was swallowing (possible inspiration for all those Sea Org treasure-hunts?):

          • Sherbet

            Cool picture, Mark.

            • Mark

              Why, thank’ee ma’am! Ah used ter perfer Jerrytall, but when ah saw that thar comic, Ah switched ter Haddycall! (Fade in ‘The Hadacol Boogie’).

            • Sherbet

              What the heck IS Hadacol, my British Buckaroo? (I could Google it, but it’s more fun talking to you with your L’il Abner accent.)

            • Mark

              A patent medicine that had huge sales in ‘dry’ US states in the late ’40s, because it contained lots of alcohol. Apparently ‘Geritol’ (which I gather is still on sale) is very similar.

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadacol

            • Missionary Kid

              *Laughter* My grandmother, a staunch member of the local Women’s Christian Temperance Union loved Hadacol, and used it as an afternoon pick-me-up until it came out how much booze was in it.

            • Sherbet

              There was another alcohol-laced tonic, made in New England by Lydia Pinkham. It promised to be good for just about everything that ails a person! (Sort of like scientology.)

            • Missionary Kid

              I thought she only made the pink pills. I learn something new every day.

            • When Queen Victoria passed away, many small newspapers in America used an engraving of Mrs. Pinkham for illustrating the sad news because they didn’t have on of the monarch herself.

            • Missionary Kid

              Sounds right. *Chuckle*

            • Mark

              The Scaffold song ‘Lily the Pink’ was about her. Let’s hope the Co$ follows the tendency of her labels:

            • Sherbet

              Good Lord, Mark, is there any bit of trivia you don’t know?

            • Mark

              Lots! Almost anything to do with sport, for a start.

              I’ve always liked reading reference-books; my parents encouraged me to look things up for myself in the dictionary or encyclopaedia (according to my mother, this started when I asked her: “Mummy, what’s a scrotum?” in front of some house-guests).

              My favourite trivia source is Brewer’s Dictionary of Phrase and Fable which is an absolute treasure-house even in its modern editions, tho’ pre-1900 versions (fortunately available as reprints) are even better.

              The picture’s from an old biology textbook chapter about science dispelling ignorance; when I first got a scanner I used it as a test.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Is this anything like Vitameatavegamin?

              http://youtu.be/r7IfR4fZW_k

            • Robert Eckert
            • Mark

              Or what about:

            • RMycroft
            • Sherbet

              I remember my Mom rubbing paragoric on the gums of teething babies.

            • Captain Howdy

              Here’s the real deal cure all.

          • FistOfXenu

            LRH did drugs Mark. I can’t find the pages now but other people here will know where they are. And of course he was a big time narcisist and probably found it easily to think the whole world is here for him.

            • Bella Legosi

              From reading the writings of Hub for the past 2 or so years I firmly believe he definitely partook in amphetamines. I have heard ramblings very much like his from some very deluded, drug induced psychosis tweekers and it all sounds very familiar.

              “Pinks and Greys” and the laughing gas prolly had an effect on this man……especially his teeth. I know “meth mouth”….many many here in Portland have it…..they also succumb to gross cysts too……

      • JonathanRoberts

        Maybe Capt Irony instead
        I realize the American public would wish to do away with regulation. Perhaps if business could be trusted to be honest this could be a reality. Otherwise it is but a pipe dream.

      • stillgrace

        Here’s an interesting sentence from the directions for taking Dianazene: “This preparation should be taken with a full meal or with milk and chocolate if your regular diet does not consist of wholesome food.” I wonder if chocolate with red wine would work as well.

        • ThetaBara

          Special instructions for the Sea Org, seems like!

          Chocolate usually works great with red wine. Dianazedrines are Not Recommended.

  • Michael Leonard Tilse

    Regarding “Handle or Disconnect”: Claire really drills down and shows that disconnection from someone regarded as SP is only a “self-determined decision” if you are also making the parallel and interlinked decision to stay in or leave scientology. While the term “Handle” is thrown in there so as to seem a viable option, it almost never is.

    The reason “handling” is so seldom attempted is because of the lie at the base of the argument: That someone has been misinformed as to scientology, or has an unreasoning desire to stop scientology.

    This lie makes it impossible to “handle” an SP. The dutiful scientologist trying to handle their antagonistic parents believes they are either misinformed about scientology, and they can handle them by providing ‘accurate’ information, or if that fails, then they must be insane and have an unreasoning hatred of scientology and a desire to destroy it.

    But in truth, people become antagonistic to scientology in direct proportion to the amount of true information they acquire on the subject. True being the actual stories of scientologists, testimony in court records, information gathered in investigations of things like the government infiltration and burglary by scientologists. No amount of ‘acceptable truth’ or Public Relations generated by scientology can “handle” this.

    And if someone was indeed irrationally bent on destroying scientology, scientology itself tells us that they can only be handled by the extensive application of scientology. Which is not allowed by scientology policy.

    So you see, to “handle” a scientologist can only tell lies (which they may not understand are untrue) to the parents or other antagonistic connections, or give them scientology processing and training until they are no longer antagonistic. That basically means not doing any scientology for yourself for like, forever. And since scientologists are all about personal gain and clearing the planet speedily, “handle” beyond a few “good roads, good weather” letters and carefully avoiding the subject of scientology is almost never done beyond a few initial attempts. To a scientologist it is far more practical to just dump the SP out of their life and get on with saving the planet.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      It all starts with that First Lie, the one you tell yourself, then another little one, then a whole succession of big ones to yourself and to others and then Poof! Your whole life is one big fat lie.

    • May_West

      I was repulsed by my experience of being “handled” by a scientologist.
      “Handling” is just a high-pressured pounding in of their false information, totally one-sided, and contains a vague, veiled threat. During the process, you are aware that you are not dealing with your loved one, but someone higher up in scientology who is telling your loved one what to say and do. Sometimes they listen in; they always read and “help” respond to your email. Your loved one’s speech patterns and voice tone are altered from their natural bearing. To be successfully “handled”, you must pretend that scientology is “great” and that you accept and support it, while you watch your loved ones lives be destroyed. Furthermore, once “handled” you run the risk of being used as a pawn in scientology’s game. It can get real ugly.

  • JonathanRoberts

    Ole Kirstie is back at again;

    “Kirstie Alley ‏@kirstiealley 2m
    oh yeah..have a great day and don’t believe BS just because you read it. In the US, by law, it DOESN’T have to be true!! hehehe XXXO”

    The internet doesn’t forget tweets Never go away

    • 1subgenius

      Of course one shouldn’t believe everything they read, but she never reveals what specifically is untrue.

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      I really figured she had been told to STFU by now.

      Are they really that scattered that they can’t even handle Kirstie?

      Things must be reaching critical mass.

      • Captain Howdy

        Do you really think a guy who texts “YSCOHB” to people has the self awareness to realize that Kirstie is making his business look bad?

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          Kirstie would make any guy’s “business” look bad. Heh heh heh.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Nevermind.

          What was I thinking!!!

        • sugarplumfairy

          Lucky thing for those of us hoping for the demise of co$ that miscavige has obviously never taken a REAL management or leadership class..

          • ze moo

            In the 25 years the dwarfenfürher has ‘led’ the CO$, the membership has plummeted by at least 1/2. No university is ever going to tout a ‘dave miscavige’ management seminar.

          • Captain Howdy

            David Miscavige is a South Philly street punk..rude, lewd and crude. He wants to be Vito Genovese but he’s John Gotti instead. All flash and bravado with no real depth or vision.

            • Missionary Kid

              I think you’re insulting Gotti. The rest is true.

      • It occurred to me that loons like her are the best advertising for staying the hell away from Scientology so I hope she keeps spewing insanity from her piehole. Think about it, people like her and the squirrel busters represent the top of the bridge.

        Keep it up Kirstie! You’re making this a lot easier for us!

    • SandiCorrena

      someone should reply “can you be more specific?”

      • JonathanRoberts

        Twitter accounts are open to all even those with laptops and Pc’s why not give it a try.

        • SandiCorrena

          I did; something like I hope she soon realizes the 3rd party is the {church} just ask Jenna or Marc Headley – then I ran out of spaces.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Ethics must have Kirstie on a Pay as You Go plan. I wonder how much she has to pay per tweet?

      • Lark Smith

        Maybe there are bulk rates for frequent users. Cheaper by the dozen.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Must be. I just love the fact that she tells her followers to Not read, then says Don’t Believe what you read, but of course, you should still read Her tweets and believe them.

          • Lark Smith

            Her lack of self awareness, compassion, and courtesy truly comes shining through. It is very sad but also reaffirms how disconnected from reality she has become.

            • ze moo

              Disconnected from reality is the end product of clamdom.

        • RMycroft

          Or frequent rates for bulk users.

      • ThetaBara

        I think she just let them take out a credit card in her name.
        Which would be funny if they didn’t already do crap like that!
        Scientology! Who could make this shit up?
        Scientology! You think Game of Thrones is bad!

    • stillgrace

      I hope everyone that reads the instructions for her diet products reads and digests Krusty’s tweet!

    • RMycroft
  • Sid_Sn

    Hugh – I make it a policy to never judge someone from a small piece of information. But for you I make an exception. You’re a monumental turd and a fuckwit. Good luck on your descent into madness on Solo NOTs you selfish prick.
    That is all.

  • CraftLass

    Once upon a time, many years ago, my father married a woman I did not like without telling me until after the fact. I tried to disown him over that. It lasted all of 3 months and then we went back to our usual daily phone calls and regular visits.. I think of those 3 months of hell every time I read a disconnection story and try to imagine it lasting for years or even a lifetime. I was the one who made that choice and it hurt so badly that there was a cloud over my life in that time, even while I was doing things I loved with people I loved even more.

    Reading that email from Claire’s mother is especially painful. It is so easy to feel the pain of those who have been disconnected with, those who left and were basically abandoned by everyone they cared about. It takes another leap to feel bad for those who disconnect to stay in. I will never really be able to understand being “in”, but, gosh, even if someone makes the “choice” to disconnect to maintain their status, I feel for them. Not just because they are still willing victims of a terrible cult, but because making that choice (no matter what the reason or amount of pressure) is probably harder than the actual disconnection, no matter how much you might try to reason or audit the feelings away. To have to act like it’s the best thing around pretty much everything you know – that’s another level of heartbreak.

    My father and I learned the hard way that no connection is more important than ours. I get along great with his wife now, but never again would my father prioritize her over me, nor would I prioritize anyone over him. My hope for anyone who has been victimized by this horrendous policy is that they get to experience the joy of reuniting and the deepened love that comes from never taking being together for granted again.

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      “Once upon a time, many years ago, my father married a woman I did not like without telling me until after the fact. ”

      My dad did the same thing, seriously. And he lived with me at the time (in his 70’s), and he moved her right into my house.

      Man that was weird.

      I didn’t try to dis-own him, but I did tell them they could not live with me. So they moved and he didn’t speak to me for a whole month. I could not contact him. I had her cell number but she would not let me talk to my Dad.

      And then he showed up on my doorstep to move back in because he was just as suddenly divorced.

      Humans do weird shit sometimes for sure.

      • CraftLass

        Oh, my. OH, MY! That is definitely a whole different level… I can’t even imagine. Although my dad did move his now-wife in during my senior year of high school – and then he moved almost a thousand miles away, leaving us to get to know each other without his aid. It’s a shame, she’s lovely and we are great friends now, we might have discovered that sooner if it hadn’t been so complicated (and if I hadn’t been in full-on teen brat mode lol).

        Yeah, humans definitely do weird shit. Heck, even my dad admits that he really screwed all of that up. Luckily, most humans are rather forgiving, especially if you own up. Seems to be a theme around here…

        I am so sorry you had to go through that. But sort of glad to know I’m not alone at the same time. 🙂

  • JonathanRoberts

    More Kirstie;

    “Tweets All / No replies
    Kirstie Alley ‏@kirstiealley 8m
    The 3rd party will always “claim” to have your best interest at heart. They have no “best” interest other than to take you down. & no heart
    Expand
    Kirstie Alley ‏@kirstiealley 19m
    2 people can usually work out their problems. Unfortunately there are 3rd parties involved who don’t want solutions, just to fuel the fire.”

    • pronoia

      Yup. That is how disconnection is done. Triangulate, triangulate, triangulate.

    • stillgrace

      Krusty doesn’t even realize that SHE’S the worst kind of third party there is. Don’t get me started.

    • Spackle Motion

      I’m convinced that many humans that become actors/actresses or otherwise crave fame and attention have significant psychological issues and/or serious character defects. One only needs to look at Geraldo Rivera for proof of my theory.

      The amount of unhealthy narcissism needed to succeed in that industry often makes those human beings toxic and abusive. I grew up around it and never wanted much part in it outside of going to interesting parties.

      Kirstie Alley is one such personality that I would group in the toxic category. She has this unbelievable need to stay relevant and get attention when she currently contributes nothing to the world outside of Cheers reruns (oh, and of course the best Star Trek movie ever). One day she’ll regret her words. It may be the day of her death, the day she wakes up, or the day she signs bankruptcy papers, but she’ll regret them.

    • CraftLass

      In this case, she actually would have a point, if she meant the “church” as the “3rd party.” It’s a 3rd party that does nothing but fuel fires to make actual communication and relationships go up in full flames. And they sure do love to claim they have members’ best interests at heart while they take them down every chance they get.

      Oh, wait – you mean she didn’t intend it that way? 😉

    • Sidney18511

      It sounds like she is trying to send out a “code” to make people think that her and Leah have no problems but…..some evil third party (Leah’s sis) is spreading lies.

      • JonathanRoberts

        Yes but nothing could be further from the truth as is well known by those who read.

        • Sidney18511

          but, but….she told all her twitter followers not to read.

          • ThetaBara

            That makes me wish I was following her, because it would be a fantastic opportunity to “disconnect” (aka unfollow). But I wouldn’t follow her under an awning if it was raining!

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        “Third Party” is a Scientology thang. Every conflict is, in actuality, the fault of a nefarious third party. Identify the third party and *POOF* conflict is resolved.

        It is another good example of how Scientology promotes the idea that there is no personal responsibility for anything. It is always the fault of SPs, PTSs, or Third Parties. Or them crafty, crafty women.

  • stillgrace

    I remember reading Claire saying that she was able to whisper “I love you, Mom.” into her mother’s ear at a family funeral. Her mother responded in kind briefly, while keeping an eye out for Hugh. This was after the disconnection was in place. Very sad, but at least it’s something. I don’t think Claire’s mother ever wanted to disconnect from her daughter. Double sad.

    • ThetaBara

      This is SUCH an illuminating story. They are so weak that they cannot allow free communication among family members. So much for the Comm Course.
      Yet, love is stronger. Of COURSE she didn’t want to disconnect.

      I wish for Claire and her beloved Mom to reunite soon. May Hugh open his eyes, learn and break free!

  • nottrue

    Claire thank you for doing this series. ive learned alot and really enjoyed it

  • Bury_The_Nuts

    ‘David Miscavige’
    anagrams to
    ‘Mega, vivid acids.’

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      “Vivid mega-acids.”

      Scans a bit better, don’t you think?

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        Likes!

      • FistOfXenu

        That’s what you’d be taking if Timothy Leary invented the purification rundown. Instead of mega vitamins.

  • 0tessa

    I think some ex-scientologists might have Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome, maybe without realizing it. Stressful situations, duress, sleep deprivation, physical abuse, forced abortions, general maltreatment, disconnection from children, parents, family, to name a few, might have led to real psychological trauma, which in my opinion, should be recognized as a special form of PTSS.
    I wonder whether there is professional interest and concern about this. I would like to hear about this.

    • Missionary Kid

      Probably those in also have PTSD, only it’s not over.

    • dbloch7986

      Indeed. I have been diagnosed as such.

      • stillgrace

        Derek, Have you ever thought of revisiting your old shark avatar? I saw it over at the VV while doing some research. I’ve always thought that was a cool av.

        • dbloch7986

          Rawr. Fear me.

          • stillgrace

            It suits you! Thanks!

      • 0tessa

        Thanks for your answer. Is there any specific treatment?

        • dbloch7986

          I go to talk therapy regularly. I think for me, the most important thing is discovering what you’ve learned from the experience and the positive effects it’s had on you.

          The hardest part is managing anxiety. I am currently taking Zoloft and occasionally I take Ativan. Those tend to keep my anxiety level to a minimum and occasionally eliminate it entirely.

          I am looking into meditation techniques and I am moving to a quieter place than Los Angeles.

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            You are going to be pleasantly surprised by what moving out of LA will do for you!!

          • 0tessa

            Thanks.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      In spades. And believe me, many had that and a laundry list of “syndromes” Before they entered.

  • marky

    When is $cientology ever going to be brought to justice? I have been disconnected from my three older brothers since the early eighties. I was branded a SP back in 1985.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      I am so sorry to hear this. Three brothers, almost three decades? That is just inconceivable. Most prisoners of war are returned sooner than a decade. I wish I could think of something healing to say, but anything I think of sounds even to me trite or just plain BS.

      Have you tried to at least mend as much as possible with books and articles about cults? This may or may not apply, but there are also good books about families with a sociopath somewhere in the mix, although I find some are good for one angle, and others for other angles so you have to be prepared to read a lot on the subject.

      I have known some that have also found it terrificly therapeutic to volunteer in a non profit organization that helps families or children. Just thought I’d throw that out there. We are all hoping for this nightmare to end soon. You are not alone in this.

      • Robert Eckert

        It’s not so much like POW’s as like the broken families in Korea. A handful of them got to see their relatives again before they died, but most of that generation has passed on now.

    • Sunny Sands

      Welcome, Marky.

    • LexiCON

      I agree…. and thanks for sharing

  • Missionary Kid

    Here’s a question. Have there been people who were disconnected from a friend or loved one, but later discovered that the person is now out, but too ashamed of what they did, so they didn’t reconnect?

    • Spackle Motion

      That’s a really good question.

  • Thetapotata

    That would be something if Disconnection turned out to be the thing that loses the Church it’s Tax Exempt Status. Disconnection is something that every Scientologist who has had a PTS handling (common approach for anything bad that happens to you) knows for a fact that the Church’s official position that Disconnection doesn’t exist is a ridiculous LIE! They would have been way better off with “Good roads, good weather” and “Let’s agree to disagree.” Forced disconnection is a suppressive tool for those who like to control with an iron fist like the Dark Lord Miscavige and when LRH was being Dark himself. In the end, I think it’s the biggest destructive factor followed closely by food and sleep deprivation of Sea Org Staff (mind control shit) and then just general Psychotic nature of Miscavige.

  • Truthiwant

    It’s a hot evening here in Italy.

    This morning I was in front of Brunelleschi’s Dome and Giotto’s Campanile in Florence.

    I’m back home now and just wanted to say something about this site which has nothing to do with Italy.

    The Bunker is a bit like your local pub in England. When you know a place that can ‘pull’ a good pint of beer, then you don’t ever change pubs, and you faithfully always return to that pub. However, it’s more than a good beer that makes you return. It’s the atmosphere that your ‘local’ gives you.

    Well, this is what The Bunker is like!

    It’s a sort of ‘local’ where we meet up with our friends every day and talk about this important subject called Scientology (perhaps while having a drink at the same time!) and hope that, through good dialogue, we can make a change to the world with honest and dependable conversation.

    • Mark

      From which I take it you haven’t been in the UK recently, Truth: the pubs here are closing in droves, thanks to our idiotic politicians and vast multinational brewers. My local ‘The Old Spotted Dog’ (parts dating from Tudor times, THREE bars, 5 minutes staggering distance from my front door) closed three years ago, so the nearest decent boozer is now a chain ‘Weatherspoons’ pub (nice beer, but no atmos) a 20 minute bike-ride away. 🙁

      But I agree with you about the Bunker; maybe that’s why I’ve fetched up here!

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        Um, er…..This isn’t a pub?

        Why don’t you people ever tell me anything?

        • Truthiwant

          It’s the best pub in …..the galaxy!

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        This is freakin’ horrible news. Say it ain’t so!

      • Truthiwant

        Unfortunately I know this and it’s not easy to get a pint of Courage Best. But I still know a few places that pull a good pint of bitter!

        • Mark

          My favourite tipples are Gale’s HSB (bitter) and Fuller’s Hock (mild). But a pint of Courage goes down very well when mixed with their Imperial Russian Stout in a sort of rocket-fuel black’n’tan!

          • Truthiwant

            Fuller’s London Pride. Now THAT’S a good pint!

            • Mark

              My regular drink at the Weatherspoon’s!

            • Truthiwant

              Then let’s have a pint together sometime!

            • Mark

              You’re on!

          • 1subgenius

            I shall bicycle here http://www.royaloakbrewery.com/ tonight. On Tuesdays growlers (64 US ozs) are $4, and that happens to be about how much I have to my name.

            Couple years ago, I had to dump my scooter, with a couple growlers in the back case, because a jerk turned left in front of me. How the growlers survived is still one of the great miracles of the universe. And they sure tasted good when I got home scraped and bruised.

            Any time I’m in a microbrewery I like to ask about the beer, “Is it fresh?”

            Sometimes I don’t have to explain that its a joke.

            • Mark

              I see they like Fuller’s too, with their own ‘ESB’. If you’re ever in Helston. Cornwall, try the ‘Blue Anchor’ which makes an amazing range of delicious brews. How they do it on such tiny premises is a real mystery.

            • Captain Howdy

              My favorite UK beverage.

            • Truthiwant

              Well, Captain, the first round is on me!

      • Captain Howdy

        Yea well the mongrel hordes moving in aren’t exactly big beer drinkers are they?

        • Mark

          Tell that to the Poles!

      • Robert Eckert

        Where everybody knows your name… (and then Kirstie had to replace the Diane character and it all went downhill from there)

        • 1subgenius

          I like a place where nobody knows my name.

          There’s places I frequented for years and didn’t know anyone’s name, nor they mine.

          “What’s in a name?” some guy asked rhetorically.

          • Truthiwant

            “What’s in a name? That which we call a rose
            By any other name would smell as sweet.”

            Oh my God, I love Shakespeare and only a few weeks ago I was in Verona.

            Nothing to do with Romeo and Juliet, but did you know that the Globe Theatre in London are going to bring their production of Hamlet to every country in the world starting next year?

            • 1subgenius

              No, I didn’t. Thanks for the heads-up.

    • Missionary Kid

      Amen. Buonasera.

      My memories of Firenze are all good, and it was in the wintertime, so there were few tourists to clutter up the sights. The art and the people were fantastic.

      I remember I was going to leave that evening, and someone had told me of a fantastic gelato store that they claimed was the best in Italy. I walked quite a distance to it, and I only had enough money for one scoop.

      When it was my turn to order, I told the proprietor in my poor Italian that I was told that his was the best gelato in Italy, but I only had enough money to buy one flavor, and asked him for a recommendation.

      They not only piled on several flavors, gratis, but, as far as I was concerned, it really was the best gelato I’ve ever had.

      • Truthiwant

        Thankyou for that really good story.

        I’ve lived many experiences in my life, but I must say one thing about the Italians and in particular, those in Sicily, that they would not turn you away if they knew you didn’t quite have enough money to pay for a meal. They would make you a plate of fantastic pasta all the same and just be happy that you had eaten with them.

        • Missionary Kid

          Mangia!
          I loved the different flavors that came from the different regions.

      • Robert Eckert

        I was a hippie on a tight budget, too, when I was in Florence, and loved the fact that you could ride the bus anywhere in the city for 50 lire, the lira being sunk below a thousand to the dollar at the time (am I dating myself?)

        • Missionary Kid

          I was there in ’71, not a hippie, but on a tight budget.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            oh my. I never got to Italy and other places I wanted to visit. Now, I just look at all those Stairs and Hills just to get to a bathroom and I’m like, well I’ll just visit the Travel Channel.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          (am I dating myself?)

          And if you are how is it going? Second date?

          • Robert Eckert

            I would much prefer to date someone other than myself, but I have few prospects along those lines either.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Awwww! don’t look and they find you!
              It is natural law!

            • Robert Eckert

              I’m largely housebound, so that’s not very likely.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              The Internet is your friend!

            • Robert Eckert

              It certainly is. I would be much more down if I didn’t have the Bunker and the other places I surf.

      • CraftLass

        Lovely story!!!

        I wonder if that’s the same place that I fell in love with… Been way too many years since I’ve been there. My own story is that my parents and I discovered it on my 11th birthday and it utterly changed how I judge all forms of frozen desserts. When I returned on a high school trip where they were feeding us terrible food (in Italy! Travesty!) I grabbed some of my peers during our free time and dragged them on a search for that gelato. Finding it was one of the most pleasurable moments of my life, and my classmates confirmed that the search was more than worth it. Never has anything tasted quite as good (and I tend to eat really well).

        Thanks for reminding me of such a happy memory! 🙂

        And as for the Bunker being a local, well, it’s the only site I really miss when I’m too busy to socialize online. Twitter, too, but as far as blogs go… Yup, this is the one community I’ve found that I keep returning to. It’s centered around a subject I find important but it also attracts a diverse yet oddly cohesive group of people. A rare and special thing to find. Much like great gelato.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          ” a diverse yet oddly cohesive group of people”

          I like that.
          Imma be nicer.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            You have to admit, we are often like gello and definitely every flavor under the sun.

          • CraftLass

            🙂 Hey, even the nicest people argue. The mark of a good group is continuing to gather and even have fun together after the arguments.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Indeed!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              This is probably the only place on Planet Teejeack where both dog lovers and cat lovers get along. Okay, Most of the time.

        • Missionary Kid

          Somebody must either have been a sadist or ultra-cheap or siphoning off the funds for the trip, because even just bread, olive oil, and cheese are fantastic in Italy, let alone the sausages. I was there in the winter of ’71.

          The Bunker is, indeed “Much like great gelato.”

          • CraftLass

            Right? Only less-than-delicious food I have ever had in Italy, that trip. It got worse in Greece. Luckily, I know how to find good food and supplemented – the nose always knows! I think they were being stupidly cheap and assuming a bunch of American kids wouldn’t notice. They were wrong.

        • ThetaBara

          Well said. When I was new to posting here, I’d been a long time reader over at the VV. I was pretty intimidated by the heavy hitters and reknowned exes. Now that I’m more comfortable speaking up, it gets easy to take the J&D/snark route – but, does that add value?

          Well, sometimes it does. But it better be funny. 😉 With the increasingly crazy volume over here I’ve been rethinking each comment as to why I want to say it – what does it accomplish? Not that I am a fucking exemplar of anything (except I guess why you should listen when your parents tell you not to go to art school, heh). But that’s my deal right now. Community is always its own thing, beyond the sum of its parts. It is a living thing, and as such it grows and changes. What we are doing here I think is important in letting people know what’s up, and also keeping folks energized for further activism.

          I know if all I had to go on was WWP I’d be missing out on a lot. I <3 WWP but they sure don't make a girl feel very welcome sometimes.

          • Mark

            “…it gets easy to take the J&D/snark route – but, does that add value?”

            I think it does:

            “The Devil, the proud spirit, cannot endure to be mocked.”

            – Thomas More.

            • ThetaBara

              Oh, I agree 100% that J&D add value OVERALL.

              I meant that I consider each individual comment on that level. Is it original? Does it add something that has not already been said (often, several times)?
              If not, why am I adding to the already overloaded Disqus here? I mean, it’s fun to take part, but we are supposed to be Fun with a Purpose (just like Hilights Magazine!) so if I’m only really entertaining myself with my own cleverness, then what’s the point?

              Also, keep in mind that not everyone reading is posting. This is a very public forum. You are speaking to folks who range from OSA, to just-out, questioning, stuck-for-now, along with never-ins, Anons, and others. It is easy to get caught up in an emotional response to the tornado of bullshit that is Scientology – everybody’s done it. But, considering the platform here, and the audience, what would actually be useful? What would advance the conversation, elevate the discourse, or encourage people to escape?

              Going forward, I’m trying to frame my comments (and even upvotes) that way. While I get in a fair amount of J&D – make no mistake! But I’m trying for a better signal to noise ratio.

            • Mark

              You’re right: the signal-to-noise ratio does get a bit much sometimes, which leads to repetition and redundancy. But I think that just makes Truth’s pub simile all the more apt – even down to pub bores (OSA and invisible trolls, are you listening? – that’s the first downvote I’ve seen in over a week, you humourless buggers!)

              At least the humour and off-topic stuff might show some still-ins and just-outs that life outside Scientology is a lot more enjoyable than inside it.

            • ThetaBara

              Ehh, that’s probably not really an OSA downvote anyway. They don’t often troll at this time.

              I totally see humor as being a positive force – as I have clearly stated. But, if you are making the believers the butt of the joke, I doubt that will attract many folks to defect. Especially as mean as some of the jokes can be.
              You catch moar flies with honey, sugar. That’s all I’m saying.

              Do you think you’d be convinced to change your mind on this subject if you saw jokes mocking your position? Even if they were funny?

            • Mark

              I think mockery of the ‘laughing at not with’ sort can change minds, sometimes.

              But luckily the really cruel stuff here seems mostly directed at the bloated egos of Little Boots, Tommy Girl, Krusty &c., who deserve it – and are probably incapable of responding to it in any recognisably normal manner, given their narcissism bordering on sociopathy.

              And surely their responses to the real tragedies that Tony reports, and the misfortunes that occasionally happen to other commenters, must mean that Bunkerites aren’t entirely cynical?

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Kirstie has taken some serious hits about her weight (instead of her superior stupidity tech).
              Ditto the short jokes with Davey.
              Those two things really are not the point….not sure how to turn the boat against that tide though.
              We have this whole human nature problem to work on….me included!

            • Mark

              “All human life is here” – just like a pub…

              I’m no sylph myself, and I know – from long experience of them – that fat jokes are a low form of wit: but Alley is a (largely self-appointed these days) public figure, so I imagine it’s water off a duck’s back to her anyway. If she will keep on acting like a mouthy (and yes fat) fishwife, the solutions are in her own hands. But don’t expect a graceful retirement any time soon!

              As to DM, I don’t think we need shed any tears over his restricted growth: being idiotic enough to start taking illicit anabolic steroids during puberty – which was bound to mess up his growth-hormones – is entirely his own fault.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Youspeakethtruth!

          • sugarplumfairy

            I say live and let live.. Over a year ago, I made a comment much like yours about “frivolous comments” and I offended a very nice lady named Miss Peggy.. She stopped her very enthusiastic and friendly commenting, and began saying very little at long intervals until she finally disappeared.. I’ve regretted it ever since and i learned a life lesson.. And i miss her.. She was a sweetie.. I enjoy all the personalities here and I will never again presume to suggest anyone not post a comment, frivolous or otherwise.. And I’m not about to start rating humor.. I love a good laugh and I sure find a lot of them here..

            I agree about WWP.. They’re way out of my league.. I can’t keep up.. And the indies scare the crap outta me..

            I feel your angst about all the comments.. It is hard to navigate them and I always ending up missing something.. but there’s not a single person here I would want to rein in.. The occasional evil comment is disturbing and distracting, but they’re few and far between, thank goodness..

            • stillgrace

              Was that PeggyToo? White cat with blue eyes avatar?

            • sugarplumfairy

              Yep.. That was her! She was a dear and I think I really hurt her feelings..

            • stillgrace

              Oh no! I was just thinking about PeggyToo. I liked her, too. I think we may have lost EnthralledObserver, too. I didn’t witness it real-time, however, I saw it a few days ago. It was the night shift, I think. I didn’t personally agree with her stance, however, she had the right to state her beliefs. The Bunker was pretty brutal to her, and wouldn’t let her even back down when she tried to call a truce. Made me very uncomfortable, I’ve been keeping an eye out for her, but haven’t seen her. I could have missed her comments, though. I hope she comes back.

            • sugarplumfairy

              I missed it.. At least I think I did.. Hope she gets over it and gets back here..

            • Captain Howdy

              I hope Enthralled Observer returns also.

            • ThetaBara

              I’m not telling anyone to do anything, just saying that with the volume and the limitations of the software, I do try to consider this. And the level of meanness. It isn’t angst so much as trying to create worthwhile comments. Enthusiastic and friendly wins it over fatshaming. Of course, it is always the nice folks who take it to heart.

            • sugarplumfairy

              I definitely feel ya.. I try to consider it too, but then I always have to go for the laugh anyway..

            • Captain Howdy

              I miss Peggy also and I saw she commented recently on the rodeo.

              Peggy please come back. I was just thinking about you recently.

              And as far as the other thing is concerned , if I wanted to go hang out on great but generally humorless ESMB or OCMB, I would have already.

              I’ve already stated I’m not an activist or humanitarian.

            • sugarplumfairy

              I’m glad she’s still around..

              ESMB makes me too sad..

          • CraftLass

            I think a lot of the humor is necessary to keep us from just crying all the time. It would be so easy to fall into that… But it’s no way to live and it’s definitely no way to gear up for a fight (whatever fight may mean to each person).

            My friends often ask why I care about this (I’d never met in any form anyone even vaguely connected to the “church” before I found the VV blog) and why I let it get me down. My partner has found me crying a few times over a book or a post by an ex-member and tells me to stop paying attention for my own mental health. But I can’t. I’m the same way with a lot of human rights issues. Ignorance may be bliss but I can’t live in my place of privilege without at least trying to learn and do what I can, even when it’s not much, and even if it all sometimes makes me feel hopeless and helpless.

            Yet… yet… I’m not depressed (most of the time). Because I laugh. Because other people also can find humor in the darkness and make me laugh more. Because I know there’s a virtual army of people with the same aims and that we hold each other up when we hurt and then make more laughter.

            So, you may have hit the wrong “reply” button, but I’m glad you did. I didn’t realize I was thinking these things until I wrote them just now. 🙂

            • ThetaBara

              I think my point may have been misinterpreted. I am ALL FOR humor, J&D, etc. Just review my posts! It helps me keep coming back when the truth is ugly and dark, sometimes beyond imagining.

              I understand that everyone has a different way of expressing that – but – that is also one of their arguments.

              I just wince at all the fat shaming of Kirstie. She obviously can’t fucking help it. No matter what “OT Level” she has “achieved.”

              Believe me, I do get that THAT is what is actually being shamed, but as a chick’s chick, I just can’t support this as a tactic. Being as bad as the OSA doesn’t exactly serve us.

            • CraftLass

              Oh, I got that… you just got me musing. 🙂

              Agree 100% about the fat shaming. Not a big fan of short jokes, either. There is plenty to genuinely mock without ever going after anyone’s physical characteristics. I tend to glaze over when that gets going and skip to the next thread. Actions are what matter, right?

    • ThetaBara

      I left you a rather wordy reply, below. Just posting this so you see the notification.
      Hope you had a fantastic time in Italy!

      • Truthiwant

        I actually live in Italy although I am English originally. I’ve been living in Italy for 38 years.

        The comments here are a gold mine.

        There are more and more new people chippig in that are making inspiring and interesting comments that encompass all aspects of the cult.

        Some of it is simply good fun but much of it has a significant importance.

    • Interested

      How beautifully put. Trouble is I agree also with Observer.. It is addictive. Here I am at midnight reading and wishing I could go to st Hill and grab a young SO and de programme him/her.

    • sugarplumfairy

      I’ll clink glasses to that..

  • JonathanRoberts

    Leah Remini at 64,458 Facebook likes, should we have shown the love for all the others, yes. For the Headley family for Jason and Paul along with a host of others. Maybe this could be a beginning while I have friend..ed Leah maybe we can re-inforce good thoughts towards her and all the others.

  • USA MRIID

    “…seems to have stepped in it again…”

    Well, to be fair, that insane Dwarf never really actually steps *out* of it in the first place. He’s up to his chin in stupid.

  • 1subgenius

    Disconnection is not only a hammer of compliance, but a way to restrict the flow of information.

    • Missionary Kid

      Exactly.

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      Both in and out!

  • mook
    • TheHoleDoesNotExist
    • Mark

      The plot thickens… (Evil laughter).

    • John P.

      What? Did Jim (“Future Pulitzer”) Lynch keel over and die? I thought they had only one staff member and he is it. He is to Scientology journalists what Gary Soter is to Scientology lawyers: D-List all the way.

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        Maybe he blew. Now that would be HIGHlarious!!!

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        If Lynch didn’t kick the bucket, then Miscavige would have to reemploy those two detectives that stalked Pat Broeker for decades to keep tabs on him forever, you know, just to keep in touch.

    • SP ‘Onage

      He probably blew because he got tired of DM blowing up his cell phone with YSCOHB texts. Bawhahahahahahahaha!

    • Couch_Incident

      Snort!

      The only angle I can figure is that it’s a way to leak the naughty bits of the ex’s PC folders by attributing the information to “anonymous sources” worked by the “investigative reporter.”

      • Couch_Incident

        Just posted this at the Hollywood Reporter site: “If you want great investigative journalism regarding topics of interest to Scientologists, check out Tony Ortega, formerly of the Village Voice.”

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Next time a disclaimer please:Tell them to bring there own snacks, beverages and they have to smoke OUTSIDE!

    • 1subgenius

      That’d be a helluva job interview.

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        What are your crimes?
        Have you raped a baby?
        Have you had sex with your neighbors pet turtle?
        Your hired!

    • media_lush
      • Lurkness

        And THR article hit Drudge which is worth a few more eyeballs on this.

  • Brainslugged

    “It’s hard to imagine a “religion” that breaks up families left, right, and center”.

    Massive giveaway that this is a cult we’re dealing with here, then. One of the most vital elements of any cult that wants to stick around is to try and separate its victims with anyone who cares about them who’s remotely likely to say “WTF are you doing?”

  • Xique

    Claire , your mom ends her e-mail to you with “I love you very much darling.” It’s certain that she does, though she is caught in a web and cannot get free. Not yet anyway.
    I loved my mother so much, but I’d pulled away from her for a time, due to my involvement and her disdain for the organization. Somehow after much separation and nonsense, we reconciled. I was still a member of the church then, but we managed to set our differences aside. I was so fortunate in this chance to have my mother back. All this PTS /SP handling nearly ruined everything for me and my mom. She died a few years ago, and our bond was strong at that time. God, if only I could tell her I’m through with that crazy, crazy Church of Scientology. She was so patient and kind with me throughout the ordeal.
    So anyway Claire , try to stay strong, your mother will come back to you one day. How do I know? She loves you.

    • ThetaBara

      These disconnection stories tear at the heart. (Of course they are also very much Why.)
      Your Mom would be proud to know you are out. Depending on how woo-woo you are, she might know. Mostly I am happy to hear a story of disconnection averted. Good on you!

      • 1subgenius

        “Your Mom would be proud to know you are out.”

        “Do this in remembrance of me.”

        This is why, for me. For my best beloved. (not my mom.)

        Which is why this scene still brings tears to my eyes:

        The moment when the daughter realizes its her mom behind the mask, joining her in this cause for great justice.

        .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5y446o7u_Q

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Damn you! You had to pull up this? It just guts my heart.

      • Xique

        Thank you

    • 1subgenius

      “She was so patient and kind with me throughout the ordeal.”

      The very definition of the word mother.

      • Xique

        I was lucky in that department .

    • MissCandle

      Inspiring.

    • Proud to be an SP

      Bless you, Xique.

  • Sunny Sands

    The Drudge Report has picked up a Roger Friedman article “Kirstie Alley Advocates Violence Against Paparazzi”.

    Kirstie Alley is advocating violence against photographers and paparazzi on her Twitter account. Alley is an actress, member of the Scientology cult, and purveyor of diet products. She sent out two messages in the last few hours backing Kanye West’s recent altercation with photos in LAX, wishing he had done more, and basically promoting the idea.

  • Jeb Burton

    I was over at Mike Rinders site and he had a story about an Independent scientologist making great gains or some such bullshit. One of the people commenting said that the prices they paid for auditing from indies were very reasonable. I asked the question, what are the prices? I heard that Marty charges $2000 a session. Is this what all indies are charging for auditing? For the first time, Mike wouldn’t post my question. A question for indies, what do they charge? And is the independent movement scam lite? And is Mike himself auditing for these ridiculous prices?

    • JonathanRoberts

      For what it is worth Mike Rinder has a personal stake in all of this namely family. I personally have no issue with what ever faith or teaching one may follow. Mike Rinder has made it no secret he still follows the teachings of the founder of scientology, so be it that is his choice.
      Me,well I believe all the teachings are those from thousands of years ago namely the Buddah. Whatever those who seek need outside of corporate scientology so be it I am not the truth police.

      • Jeb Burton

        I have no issue with whatever he believes either. But can we not ask the question of what the cost of holding the tin cans is? I am just curious. But it seems like the indies want to keep it secret.

        • JonathanRoberts

          Oh no Please ask it, it is everyone’s right to ask I just only wished to speak to Mike’s personal stake in what is going on.
          Do I think a Catholic, Protestant etc priest would ask such fees the answer would be no.

        • sister wendy

          my understanding from what I’ve seen is that there are no fixed prices for any indie auditor. It is varying from person, to country, to skill, etc… Some advertise, some don’t, some you find through word of mouth, some are free, some are not- but all of them so far are so way less than what they charge in Sci-bot land that Espiando is correct- it can feel like getting Steven Hawking to grade your school science paper;)

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      I am so glad I am addicted to cheaper vices!

      • Anonymookme

        Amen! I bottle of Cabernet has helped me go exterior on many occasions.

        • Mark

          Wine is fine
          But ether is briefer.

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            Exactly…so what is the point?

            • Mark

              Candy is dandy
              But liquor is quicker?

            • MissCandle

              Are you drinking or picking up women? Or both?

            • Mark

              Er, no… I’m sitting here waiting for it to cool off enough to go to bed, eating a bag of ‘Strawberries & Cream’ sweets as a reward for an afternoon’s oily struggle with my recalcitrant bicycle. And I’m not exactly heterosexual, either 😉

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              You are so not right! I mean that in a good way!

            • MissCandle

              No offense meant. Mr. Candle uses that “poem” about liquor being quicker when he’s talking about picking up women. It was a bad joke, but next time I need to make it a bi-sexual joke jic. Hope I did not step on your toes or on anyone’s else’s, for that matter.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Mr. Nuts uses that joke (and actual hard liquor) when he is trying to get laid!

            • Mark

              None taken, Miss C. It was a GOOD joke – tho’ I’d watch out for the ghost of Dorothy Parker – she invented that bit of doggerel!

            • Mark

              Miss Candle can handle
              Any Bunker spelunker! : )

            • sugarplumfairy

              It was funny.. No regrets.. Don’t let anonymous people on the Internet make you feel bad.. You bring fulfilling meaning to us.. Imma go smack Theta.. When Tony complains about our joking and degrading, I’ll listen.. Until then, keep ’em coming..

    • Espiando

      Remember that Marty’s a Class XII auditor. For most Scientologists, even seeing a Class XII is an expensive proposition, because they’re reserved for the Ls, the most expensive rundowns in Scientology. You don’t get them to audit Joe Newmeat. After the Indies have experienced Flag pricing, $2000 per 2.5 hour session with a Class XII is like getting Stephen Hawking to check your high school physics homework for free.

      I’m not saying it’s reasonable, but apparently it’s what the market will bear. As John P. can tell you, that’s capitalism.

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        Marty is a class XII? Huh?

        • sister wendy

          OT8; Class12- I thought…..

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            Really, I did not know that. I am going to go have to reread his book then.

      • Jeb Burton

        But Marty said he is no longer calling himself a scientologist. So just what is it he is selling?

        • Espiando

          He’s selling his experience, regardless of what he’s calling himself. There’s a market for very specialized knowledge. I feed, clothe, and shelter myself on that principle. Marty, though, can charge a lot more than I can and get buyers, because he’s a much rarer commodity than I am (with the Mayos out of the picture, the only Class XIIs I know of outside the cult off the top of my head are Marty, Karen, and Pierre Ethier), and he’s still significantly undercutting the cult. That brings people outside the cult wanting high-level auditing or needing a cycle to start repairing the damage the cult did to them flocking to Casablanca Dos.

          The guy’s using the tools he has (and given his life to this point, they’re the only tools he has to make a living) to provide Mosey with a house and comfortable life, and Chiquita with doggie treats. I can’t fault him for that. Regardless of what we think of the Tech, there are people out there who believe in it and will pay Marty’s prices for it. My mother thinks I’m weird because every time I walk into a Fry’s, I turn into a gibbering, salivating lunatic with a raging boner in my pants ready to test the limit on every piece of plastic in my wallet. Yeah, the Tech isn’t good for you. Well, I smoke like a chimney, so I’m not one to throw stones.

          He may be selling placebos, but he’s not lacing the sugar pills with cyanide. Yet. The moment we find out he is, then I’m sure the knives will come out.

    • LexiCON

      Indies are not the problem

    • 0tessa

      People pay what they want and only when they are satisfied.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Great! Did anyone notice Mark Ebner’s tweet that Tony posted? He’s going to apply for the Freedumb Mag journalist spot! I thought Mark was in southern sunny Florida in the land of Dave Barry and Carl Hiaasen?

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      Heck yeah…I even re-tweeted it to my 2 followers!

  • InterestedObserver12

    Check out the Hollywood Reporter’s article – Freedom magazine (obscene name for an $cn pub) is hiring investigative reporter. http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/scientology-magazine-hiring-investigative-reporters-590849

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Thanks for the heads up. The comments section is now all the richer…

    • JonathanRoberts

      Feel free to call them however their caller ID does work quite well. Yet articulate calls do Make a Difference.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist
      • Mark

        Footbullet!

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        Anyone know the “Doug Parent” that just posted there? (I have an interest in Dougs with an interest in the CoS…)

        • grundoon

          He’s posted here as recently as yesterday.

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      Yippee. S_St.Claire is there too (in the comments). I love him.
      He is fun to spar with!
      Blow S, blow!!!!

      • Espiando

        I had to go there and say hi to S myself. I even did a little Godwin’s to up the ante and have some fun. Good to see him well and still allowed on the Net. He was more of a fun sparring partner than most of the trailer trash that OSA subcontracts.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Yeah, I actually do enjoy discourse with S.
          Does this make me PTS to TO?

          You went Godwin’s already?
          Shit…it is only Tuesday….

          • Espiando

            I only went a little Godwin’s, just enough to drive the point home. And you have to admit that a comparison of Freedumb to Der Stuermer is perfectly valid.

            Besides, it was a break from my normal DM to Stalin comparison.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Hehe. Ok! Hands are up!

            • DeElizabethan

              That was fun in Hollywood.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              HA. Hell yah!

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        I responded to S_SC meself. What a tool.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Aw come on! Tool yes, but still hasn’t totally co-opted his brain…
          Which totally surprises me.

          Disclaimer: I also kinda like the way he addresses me as just: Nuts.

          Think he is sending a subliminal message? hehehe

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            St. Clair’s oh-so-reasonableness is so toolish. It’s even more insufferable than mine. But then, I do this only for effect.

    • media_lush

      what I find interesting is the amount of comments, 254 and counting…. I read the site every day and I think this must be a record for them [give you an idea – their second most popular story has 1 comment…. 1]. I can’t remember any past stories really breaking 50; I think this is the case across the net…. you only have to see the increase in Tony’s comments, remarkable. As editors want hits to their site they’re going to realise scientology stories are worth money to them… more and more journalists are going to go out there and try and get exclusives rather than copy and paste from here and other relevant sites. It’s a ripple effect that is working in reverse correlation to the tightening of Tiny Fist’s ring-piece.

  • media_lush

    I’ve just received a photo tip of the person behing the scientology kills braincells facebook site, the secret OSA bot who is hating all over Leah Remini …. does anyone recognise her? And, she’s a real nasyt piece of work – some of her other tweets under a different name are truly awful

    • media_lush

      apparently she used another twitter handle ( @lilmissS_heila )

      and befriended Leah under that name …. the second pic is the kind of hate attacks she then went on to make against other people…. have we found a real live OSA bot here?

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        I think she just obsessively hates Leah.
        My exchange with her ended in a truce and she said she hates the cult.

        I took away a major hatred to Leah only.

        • SandiCorrena

          WOW! you actually had an exchange with her?

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            Yeah, a long one on her facebook under my real name

            Anette Iren helped too.

            • media_lush

              doesn’t explain why she’s all friendly under her other twitter handle [now deleted]…. you’re really prominent on this site…. someone from OSA would know that…. given how sick and nasty she’s been in her tweets (under both… and possibly more from what I’m hearing twitter handles, do you still think this is someone who just has “a major hatred to Leah only”?

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              I am really not sure.

              I don’t ever trust anything related to the Church, but her hatred seems laser focus directed on one Leah Remini.

              I could totally be wrong, but to me it feels like a case of the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
              If she is a OSA bot…she isn’t so good at it.
              She just makes it all look even worse for the cult in my eyes.

              But then after seeing Stacy and Kirstie’s handling of this situation….I am not too impressed with the remainder of the Churches resources.

              Honestly, don’t know, but I find her site and tweets counter productive to Scientology.

              Not that I am complaining about it when they footbullet…..

            • sugarplumfairy

              The intelligent ones are becoming few and far between.. Anyone not making money off their assocation with co$, anyone with Internet access and an ounce of pride or gray matter, isn’t going to hang around for long once they figure things out..

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              But what is left seems to be the nastiest there is.
              The zombies!!!

            • q-bird

              zombies!

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Leah picked up some very active haters during the flap over her departure from The Talk. Sometimes it seems like the more insignificant the stakes, the higher the anger… and long term fallout.

            • SandiCorrena

              Gasp! Whoa BTN you’re amazing! Little Eddy is one of my favorite icons and she talked about being a “Staunch” woman which to me is the greatest compliment ever and that’s what you are! I would so bake you a cake right now!

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Thanks, but mostly I just talk a lot. hehe.

            • sister wendy

              in a great way, though!

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Thank you, but I think one or two of my sparring partners would beg to differ!

        • media_lush

          she’s best buds with Stacy Francis [X-Factor Tommy Girl serenading nutjob] and the Hutt [Kirstie] has retweeted some of her tweets before….. I think she’s definitely an OSA bot [naturally they would would chose the nastiest specimens of human detrus to do their bidding]

          • SP ‘Onage

            Oh gawd, break out the violins. Stacy is gonna cry…Again!

      • SandiCorrena

        Geesh! Talk about nasty!

      • noseinabk
        • media_lush

          I think the ultimate irony would be if somehow we could get the Westboro church to protest outside a scion org with “God Hates Scientologists” signs

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            SNORT!

          • CraftLass

            Imagine the two cults provoking each other into an eternal state of lawsuits…

          • Jon Hendry

            That would just make the Scientologists look sympathetic, so would be counter-productive.

            It might even encourage people to look into Scientology, because “if WBC hates it, it must be good”.

        • SP ‘Onage

          Them protesting with a “Scientology Is Doomed” sign would be lulzy. 🙂

        • Proud to be an SP

          About a year ago the two daughters left, and their description of life inside that hate group and how they were treated after they left sounded a lot like life inside Scientology.

    • SandiCorrena

      I’ve resisted for hours but it’s KILLING me so I have to indulge in a little snarkyness just with ya’ll family; is that a business in the front-party in the back real life present time mullet?
      Reading through her tweets she is truly horrible (of course I was just not nice about the hair) and a lot wretched. I wonder how long until she hates her new BFF Stacy Francis? Good job ML for fleshing her out!

    • media_lush

      I’ve since been given her “real” facebook details…. https://www.facebook.com/sheila.marie.1217 but I feel the jury’s still out on whether she’s anything to do with the scions [none of her friends seem to be]…. either way if those posts she ‘allegedly’ made are anything to go by then she’s sick in the head… nasty person in deed.

      • noseinabk

        I sent BTN an email (sorry, btn, only one I know to send) This lady’s url came up with another persons name. Either a 20 year old in ohio or dead 10 yr old. Maybe Bury can figure it out?

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          I will get on first thing in the AM!

          • DeElizabethan

            Just got back again from Hollywood. You are just fantastic in handling those comments. I’m so jealous!

  • Poison Ivy

    “The technology of disconnection…”

    Yeah. There’s your ‘technology’ again, Mr. Brilliant Scientist Hubbard.
    Well, I’ve got a little “datum” to share with you.
    Disconnection is evil. Pure and simple.
    There are days when I can’t even fathom this stuff. I’m so sorry, Claire, for all your family has been through. I’m so sorry what all you exes and family members of clams have been through.
    Just plain evil.

  • DeElizabethan

    Thanks Claire for making it more understandable from the ethics book. I’ll bet you hate having to read that stuff now, tho this is helpful to us, thanks.

  • Sunny Sands

    The Drudge Report has a link to “Scientology Magazine Hiring Investigative Reporters”.

  • media_lush

    WELL ISN’T THAT SPECIAL [… Dana Carvey voice]

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      Second time today: BARF

    • Jon Hendry

      If he said no, would Travolta be disconnected?

  • media_lush

    I think Tommy Girl is getting lonely and hitting the internet……

    • noseinabk

      HA! Are you the one who answered number 7? 🙂

      • media_lush

        I wouldn’t have been as kind

    • Bella Legosi

      It’s stuff like this that tells me I really don’t spend that much time on the net! It’s never occurred to me to answer questions at ask.com!

  • media_lush

    ‘kay, ….. this has to be the craziest Cruise story this month…. bonus points for the added Kanye nuttieness quotient

    full story [last paragraphs a doozy]

    http://www.vanityfair.com/online/oscars/2013/07/tom-cruise-kanye-west-hbo-pilot

  • Bella Legosi

    lol oh boy how I love confront and shattering with a healthy dose of J&D!

    *taken from Hollywood Reporter

    S_StClaire replied to you

    Did you seriously just equate David Miscavige with Caligula…

    Me: just now
    geeee I don’t know……who else in history has been called Little Boots?

    Caligula made Roman Senators salute his horse, DM has his fake navy officers salute his dogs. Caligula thought of himself as a God and would command the sun to rise. DM believes he has cause over MEST (also put everyone at Int Base in Hemet in a condition of “treason” Don’t know what that means? Look it up. You gots the interwebs).
    Don’t you just love the 1st Amendment? You can say stuff like Little Boots without fear of reprisal…..oh yeah I forgot about the policy of Fair Game!

    Ah this person is really not worth my time! But it was fun!

    • Artoo45

      It’s fun over there. The OSAbots are really inept these days.

      • Bella Legosi

        My god are they ever! I just got done with my 2 cents! Jeebus Fricken Crisco these people are more inept then a fucking eunuch at an orgy!

      • Bella Legosi

        And I am getting downvoted

        muahahahaha

        I wonder if they are smart enough to figure out where we are at? Prolly not…….I would love them to walk into the Lions Den of Entheata. But this site is prolly blocked by their “own personal” decision not to read the other side of a story!

  • DodoTheLaser

    “He said this morning that they wouldn’t let him back on Solo NOTs if
    they thought any of the family were in communication with you.”

    Well FUCK SOLO NOTS! Kirstie and Tom are still on them. What a role models are they!

    Do these Internet – fearing fools even realize that David Mayo was mostly behind
    Solo NOT’s, while trying to save Hubbard’s ass. It worked, but not for long.

    Mayo was also behind beloved Happiness Rundown, as far as I know.
    Now he is not any kind of scientologist, still alive though. Wise, kind and funny too.

    What a major scam scientology is!

    • DodoTheLaser

      P.S.

      Q: Since when auditing imaginary “body thetans” is more important than taking care of your own family?

      A: Since scientology.

  • Richie

    Thanks, Claire. Your corner of the Bunker continues to be informative, insightful, and emminently readable. I look forward to next week’s column.

  • Bella Legosi

    Wow………

    This was just posted in response to me when I mentioned CO$ and NOI

    Simon Primer Bella Legosi • a few seconds ago

    I don’t know you are getting at. The Nation of Islam is also a cult that believes that aliens have abducted their leaders.
    Yet they have never been attacked the way Scientologists have.

    The fact that they associate with scientologist and are never attacked for this proves my point not yours.

    • WhereIsSHE

      That bad grammar sticks to them, doesn’t it?! There must be a whole cluster of bad-grammar-body-thetans:(!!

      • Bella Legosi

        I don’t have the best grammar in the world either, so I tend to look past that, but wow the misinformation and bubble that they wade in is appauling. I went to bed actually surprised last night! And I thought I was past this whole “surprise” thing in regards to $cientologists and what they say online!

  • Bella Legosi

    Nite SP and Artoo thanks for the back up! I got a very very early morning!

    That interaction is soooooo getting a screen shot!

    Toodles

    • SP ‘Onage

      Hey, girl! You sleep good, night. 😉

      • Bella Legosi

        Gonna get that screen shot for posterity and then hitting the sack!

        😉

        I shall sleep good tonight knowing you two are on it!

        • SP ‘Onage

          Whew! I am burning out! Hopefully Dodo will take over? 🙂

          • Bella Legosi

            I took like 10 screen shots for posterity! Let me know in a reply if any of you want me to upload them tomorrow afternoon! I will upload them under this post so Tony’s new post this morning doesn’t get bogged down with them. I think I caught most of the ignorance from the past few hours and a few that Dee was interacting in!

            Good nite

            MUAH

          • DodoTheLaser

            You know me so well. 🙂 Sleep tight guys.

  • mook

    If this is Kirstie’s attempt at damage control, it looks pretty desperate.
    http://www.deadline.com/2013/07/john-travolta-to-reunite-with-kirstie-alley-on-her-new-tv-land-sitcom/

    • WhereIsSHE

      LOL! Do body thetans smell like desperation?! If so, I think I can smell Kirstie all the way across the country. The moderator on that story scrubbed all of my comments, btw. Even my on topic posts, such as: does Kirstie PUBLICLY DISCONNECT from her son after he refuses to join her and Travolta down the SCIENTOLOGY RABBIT HOLE???

      • John P.

        Nice to see you back! Looking forward to more ruthless anti-cult legal perspective; good thing I just laid in a stock of gourmet popcorn…

        • WhereIsSHE

          I’ve been visiting and enjoying your posts (and so many others), Dear Sir:)
          Finally had to chime in, because Claire’s mother’s email near about broke my heart.

          The flip-flopping Culkin thread “pulled me in”, but the legal ramifications were well covered, so I kept my superfluous thoughts to myself;)

          Good to “see” you again:)

  • WhereIsSHE

    Claire… Reading your mother’s email breaks my heart, over and over again.
    You are a beacon of strength and a towering example of humanity to share that here.
    Much gratitude to you for your intelligent, insightful contributions.

  • Dave Roberts

    The reason disconnection exists is that without the entire organization would collapse within a week or two. One has to compare to other cult groups – the Jones fellow in Guyana. He took everyone in the cult to another country to avoid outside negative contact (SP’s in his group).

    But in his case the exit prevention method was that all would be killed. Not too many folks would leave if the payment is your life. It seriously may soon reach that point too. Miscavige shows all the signs of a Jim Jones; paranoid to the extreme, fearful of real or imagined contenders, believes that many outside or internal orgs are attacking him and his org.

    Leave, whatever the costs. Plan and attempt to take your family with you, but leave on your own if you have too.

    Dave