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HOW SCIENTOLOGY COERCED A CHILD TO HAVE AN ABORTION: THE LAURA DECRESCENZO FILES

HOW SCIENTOLOGY COERCED A CHILD TO HAVE AN ABORTION: THE LAURA DECRESCENZO FILES

—————- In anticipation of her biggest day in court yet, Laura DeCrescenzo and her attorneys hit the Church of Scientology with 928 pages of new filings —————- Details from 18,000 pages of evidence show how Scientology manipulated a child to keep her working under slave-like conditions —————- A key document describing DeCrescenzo’s unwillingness to have her coerced abortion is missing from the evidence Scientology was ordered to produce By Tony Ortega Wednesday afternoon, Laura DeCrescenzo filed explosive new information in her four-year legal odyssey against the Church of Scientology, submitting 928 pages of new declarations and exhibits in anticipation of a crucial October 23 hearing in her lawsuit against the church which alleges abuse, including allegations that she was forced to have an abortion at only 17 years of age. Key to the new filings is information gleaned from thousands of pages of previously secret files that the church fought mightily to keep under wraps. But on Monday, the U.

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Precious Bodily Fluids: Scientology and the Purification Rundown

Steamed_clamsClaire Headley is taking us on our journey to train as Scientologists. She and her husband Marc were Sea Org workers who escaped from Scientology’s International Base in 2005. She spent years working with Scientology’s “tech,” and was trusted to oversee the auditing of Tom Cruise. Go here to see the first part in this series.

After several weeks on the formidable PTS/SP course, we’re now moving on as Claire takes us into the sauna for a steaming. Claire, tell us about the “Purification Rundown.”

CLAIRE: I did the Purif when I was 14 at the Beverly Hills mission. The first part of it is studying the theory behind it. And the “EP” — end phenomena, or result of the course — is “freedom from the harmful lasting effects of drugs and toxins.”

The theory is that drugs and toxins stay in your system for many years after the fact, and that they are locked into your fatty tissue, and can release at any time, causing you to act irrationally. The materials cover the biochemical personality, and dependency on drugs.

Hubbard developed the Purif after Sea Org members on the yacht Apollo who had previously taken LSD were randomly tripping on the job, years after having taken drugs.

THE BUNKER: Sounds legit.

CLAIRE: This was also the reason LSD was later made a disqualification for Sea Org members (I believe that was implemented in 1979).

A key component of the Purif is the use of extended and high daily dosages of niacin and other vitamins and oils to release the drugs from one’s fatty tissue.

I don’t think it’s any new news that niacin causes flushing.

And certainly I was no stranger to the popular use of niacin in Scientology. I was first subjected to niacin dosing while I was in the cadet org. When the Chernobyl disaster hit, Scientologists in the UK started taking a formula created by Hubbard called Dianazene that was supposed to protect them from radiation, and again, niacin was a key component of that.

THE BUNKER: Sounds even more legit.

CLAIRE: I have a deathly reaction to niacin. A stomach ache so severe that I would have to lay down, with absolutely excruciating pain. So no, I was not particularly excited about doing the Purif. And all Scientologists do this, it’s one of the first steps on the processing-counselling-auditing side of the “Bridge to Total Freedom.”

Up_The_BridgeBack to the Purif. You are assigned a twin, basically a buddy for the duration. You are each responsible for getting the other through the program. The minimum attendance for the Purif is 5 hours each day. You do 30 minutes of exercise and the rest of the time is in the sauna.

You start off by taking 100 mg of niacin and proportionate servings of multiple other vitamins and minerals. You also drink cal-mag, a drink made of calcium powder, magnesium powder and apple cider vinegar.

Before you finish the program you will be up to 5000 mg of niacin.

The idea is that each day you are prescribed exact dosages of niacin and vitamins. You continue at that dosage until you no longer have any flushing or reactions. Then your dosage is increased bit by bit until you hit 5000 mg.

That’s a boat load of vitamins by the end of the program.

Such high dosages of niacin are highly unusual. I did a little bit of research and even 2000 mg is considered a pharmacological dosage. It seems to be controversial as to what the benefits might be.

Keep in mind, none of this is supervised by anyone with any form of medical training.

Personally, I felt better at first. Exercise and sauna at age 14 didn’t seem so bad.

I hadn’t taken any drugs. I did have flushing, including noticing old sunburns reappear.

However, by the end of the program two weeks later, I became violently ill. I was up all night throwing up vitamins.

This was then determined as an “overrun,” meaning I’d continued the program too long and was actually done.

THE BUNKER: Thank you, Claire. The purif is not only something every Scientologist goes through, it’s also central to the treatment at Scientology’s drug rehab network, Narconon, which has increasingly been ensnared in controversy.

Nine years ago this week the San Francisco Chronicle began an epic series that challenged Narconon’s involvement in the city’s schools. Reporter Nanette Asimov (niece to the great science fiction author) lined up several physicians who each cast doubt on the claims of Hubbard for the purification rundown.

The doctors contacted by The Chronicle agreed that drug residue can remain in fat for a short time, but not indefinitely.

“The longest we know that THC (the active substance in marijuana) stays in the fat is about a month. For ecstasy and LSD, we’re talking about a day or two,” said Dr. Neal Benowitz , head of clinical pharmacology at UCSF.

Nor is there evidence that drugs in fat cause cravings or flashbacks, said Peter Banys, of San Francisco’s VA Medical Center. “You could also say that craving is caused by evil spirits, which cause you to do bad things and therefore it’s demonic possession. You couldn’t prove it wasn’t, and it seemed to make sense. But that’s the use of metaphor, not science.”

Banys said research shows that cravings are associated with dopamine, a neurotransmitter. And Cermak said flashbacks are thought to be prompted by “re-exposure to the drug-taking situation, or a reasonable facsimile (that) causes the brain to begin experiencing some of the same chemical changes that administering the drug itself produces.”

Drs. Benowitz, Banys and Cermak dismissed the idea that niacin and sauna can rid the body of drugs, as did Dr. David Smith of the Haight-Ashbury Free Clinic and Dr. Igor Grant at UC San Diego.

Well, so much for the science behind the Great Scientist.

The price for the purification rundown, according to a 2001 price list: $3,872. And our total so far: $9,697

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on June 11, 2013 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

If you’d like to help support The Underground Bunker, please e-mail our webmaster Scott Pilutik at BunkerFund@tonyortega.org

 

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  • PreferToBeAnon2

    We adore Claire’s weekly briefs, so please forgive me for derailing before a single comment…I just want to let folks know that Yuliya has made an appearance on ESMB. I am terribly worried that she doesn’t have legal representation, that her bulb isn’t bright enough to withstand this, and that she has threatened suicide previously. A thread on ESMB was started yesterday pointing to Tony’s article and some of the comments here. She posted this morning with this:

    “I just hope my former name would not be here, it shows up in
    google search and I’m trying to get a job to get the kids
    back.That would scare away potentional employers. I admit,I made a
    mess but putting my former name all over the internet won’t
    help anybody.”
    http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?32043-Scientology-lawyer-Gary-Soter-legal-threats-re-Yuliya-Keaton

    ….back to our regularly scheduled program… oh good, the purif!

    • Sidney18511

      Prefer…..I saw that! And I have been reading some of her old posts. That woman needs some serious help, her cheese is slipping off the cracker.

      • PreferToBeAnon2

        Instinct tells me that this is a serious OSA-casualty-in-progress.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          I agree!
          She is ill and they don’t give a shit…in fact it makes her useful in the twisted little game.

          It also tells me OSA is as desperate and mad as Yulia.

          Tony, Karen, WBM, Tory…
          Well I guess OSA just showed their hand and now we know just how much power these ubercritics have. Go guys!

          STELLAR job per usual you OSA dorks!!

          • FistOfXenu

            Maybe we have to be glad they don’t give a shit about her. If they did she might end up getting treated with Lisa McPherson Tech (TM). That would be worse.

          • monkeyknickers

            I took the full Yulia internet tour this morning, and she has a PERSONAL grudge with David Miscavige. Evidently, she used to be Quentin Hubbard (!), and distinctly remembers Miscavige murdering her/him and then covering it up as a suicide. It’s explained and referenced in a couple places. I wonder if that was an appealing bit of lunacy for OSA

    • Sunny Sands

      I hope this poor lady gets all the help she needs, but perhaps it’s a good thing for the potential employer to see who she truly is. She could easily derail at a new job and cause untold heartache. IMO, she should be on disability and Medicaid.

      My relative takes niacin under the trade name Niaspan post heart attack. Large doses are not child’s play.

    • monkeyknickers

      Why not ask the moderator to ban her for her own legal protection (and for others, too, I suppose as plenty of people were complaining about her PMing and sending shit to them)? The more she posts nonsense and fragmented weird confessions and stuff, the worse it’s going to be for her in the long run.

      And yeah, she’s out there.

      Oh wait – Tony said in his post that she had already lawyered up?

      • PreferToBeAnon2

        Any attorney would tell her to stop posting and, due to her ‘challenged’ emotional state, to stay clear of the Boards. Maybe Tony could contact him/her for comment. Even a “No Comment” would make me feel better. At one point, Co$ talked about using their attorneys, etc., to help get her kids back. I hope that her counsel is independent. I don’t think she understands what she is really dealing with here. She just seems to be flapping in the wind… excuse the pun.

        • George Layton

          She might not have many others to talk to besides folks on the boards.

      • Sidney18511

        In a way her posts are working in her favor. It is quite clear that they KNEW this woman was not stable and she has been posting her “undercover plan” against scamology for years. I wouldn’t be surprised if this entire thing just quietly goes away. They got nothing. Zip, zilch, zero.

        • PreferToBeAnon2

          The legal aspect will most likely. What, I suspect, will not disappear are the ultimate effects on her of how OSA disposes of her and the psychological fallout.

  • Sidney18511

    When I see the amount if money this crapola costs, I’m glad that I am participating virtually.
    Thanks Claire!

    • MO Mom

      The purif price was from a 2001 price list, hate to think was it costs now…

  • Truthiwant

    I remember my Father saying about niacin

    “These cult leaders just love something that produces an effect”

    and then he went on to say about the purification rundown

    “This is absolute nonsense. The whole thing. Hubbard is a blithering idiot”

    Oh, why did I not listen to my wise Father?

    • Sidney18511

      You must of been going through the “what the hell does my father know?) phase. We all did it.

      • 1subgenius

        “When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.”
        (Attributed to Mark Twain, but not verified)

  • Observer

    Xenu help me, the only thing I can think of is sweaty Tubbard in the sauna. It’s quite upsetting. Did he even do the purif, or was that one of his many instances of exempting himself from the unpleasantness he forced his followers to endure?

    It sounds like Claire emerged unscathed from the vitamin overdoses, for which I am thankful. Others didn’t. Was it MLT who said he ended up with liver damage from the purif? This should be considered grounds for law enforcement intervention. It shouldn’t be allowed to continue until people drop dead, like James Ray or whatever his name is with his bogus “sweat lodge”.

    • BosonStark

      Dr. Hubtard kept his internal sauna fired up by chain smoking, with occasional stoking with pinks and greys.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Please, please, don’t shoop that image! I’m just now recovering from the Feshbach crushed velvet pic of their pod.

      • Observer

        I have to admit the thought crossed my mind, but I immediately gave it the boot. *shudder*

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          thank you!

          • Observer

            You’re welcome. I’m no Tony “Torture ‘Em With Horrifying Cheesy Paintings Of Smug Pregnant Clams” Ortega.

        • Captain Howdy

          Come on Observer. how can you resist ? A portrait of Blubbard sitting naked in a sauna with vile substances (with faces) oozing from every pore It could be your masterpiece, your Dorian Gray, your Pickman’s Model. Posterity demands it!

          • Observer

            I’m pretty sure I’d lapse into a trauma-induced catatonic state in the first five minutes.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Somebody make him stop! Where’s SugarPlum?

          • Exterrier

            How bout the Cremation of Sam McGee. ,or was it Dan McGrew, or L. Ron Blubbard endlessly purifying in Hell for his Eternity.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Ah shit……I just got a restim on the “Feshbach” ick.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Okay. I owe you a taco then.

          • PreferToBeAnon2

            hey i missed that pic…have a pointer to it? i promise i will eat a taco ahead of time so that won’t restim later

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Just…No. You will thank me someday. Cap’n Howdy will probably bring the eye pain though if you ask him nice.

            • Observer

              It’s kind of a Bunker hazing ritual.

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              a newcomer, i am not. but please save that for the newbies!

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              Saw your post too late–Observer did the deed. Okay, I am now ready for a full-blown Purif. No wonder BTN was still being restim-ed from that January pic! Can someone tell me what the half life of that is?

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              I tried to save ‘ya, but you know…

            • Poison Ivy

              Have missed you PTBA2!

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              Thanks! Life overfloweth… this has been my first reprieve in a few weeks where I had a spot of time to relax and post. But $ci watching and being chilled out? Ummm… not so much. Narconon and the purif craziness make me insane!

            • Observer

              You know not what you ask, but far be it from me to censor the desires of your heart. I bear no responsibility; you have been warned.

              http://tonyortega.org/2013/01/22/scientology-scrambling-to-deal-with-bad-publicity/

    • grundoon

      Hubbard, an inveterate self-medicator, constantly de-purified his essence. After going to so much trouble to steep his burgeoning fat cells in pinks, greys, stilbestrol, testosterone, sulfa, nicotine, rum, vistaril, amphetamines, and everything under the sun, no way would he want to mess that up with running and saunas.

      • FistOfXenu

        This is a bad joke to me. The guy was a walking advertisement for drug abuse but he turned his cult into a giant misguided campaign against drug abuse.

        • Observer

          Hubbard was a hypocrite, plain and simple.

          • Missionary Kid

            I prefer “Asshole hypocrite.”

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Hubbard the Hole works for me.

        • grundoon

          It’s not a campaign against drug abuse. It’s a campaign to drain wallets and recruit the vulnerable under a false PR cloak of purported social do-goodery.

          • FistOfXenu

            Of course it is. I ran out of rant. This has hurt people I care about and some times I just lose the ability to speak.

      • Poison Ivy

        Did Hubbard ever exercise at all in his later years? I know he rode motorcycles but it seems like the formerly stalwart “international explorer” was pretty indolent during the period following his escape to the High Seas.

        • grundoon

          He kept in shape by throwing tantrums and screaming fits daily at 10, 2, and 4 o’clock.

          • FistOfXenu

            Some shape.

    • FistOfXenu

      I can try to help you, Obs. Think about what it would look like if LRH was alive now and he was on the oiliness table.

      Sorry. Okay, try thinking about this instead. Imagine our courts finally seeing how crazy it is to let NarCONon keep going. So imagine now the courts order US marshalls to go in there with demolition machines and level every single NarCONon facility in the country. If you need more imagine while thy do that they’re also taking DM and his stooges away in cuffs. Better?

  • PreferToBeAnon2

    Claire, you said, “The minimum attendance for the Purif is 5 hours each day.” Can you give us an average of the number of days that folks are subjected to this?

  • CoolHand

    There is also the Cal-Mag and salt and potassium taken in association with the Niacin and other vitamins. Add it all up and each day you wind up with what I called ass-piss. Sorry for the vulgarity, but that’s what it is. Your body rejects the mega doses and the dehydration sets in as a result frequently, regardless of how much water you drink. A few months ago I took a shot at deconstructing some of the “studies” Narconon uses to try and promote the sauna program: http://forum.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/index.php/topic,12280.0.html

    • PreferToBeAnon2

      Good work Luke! Your para sums it up: “So not only is there plenty of experts who say there is no scientific
      validity to the long-term drug residue/drug metabolite/craving theory
      asserted by Hubbard/Scientology/Narconon, but Scientology’s own
      “scientists” can’t even prove it.”

      • CoolHand

        Thanks. It’s crazy how much people who work at and participate in Narconon/Scn assume stuff without actually reading it (as I had done for so long before), but when someone really examines their fluff it is easily seen through with simple common sense.

        • 10oriocookies

          I wouldnt call it fluff, more like outright lies. Narconon is now the Hindenburg of the church front groups.

          • PreferToBeAnon2

            hey eric, do you think they are fucked?

            • 10oriocookies

              fucking fuckers are fucked:) Excuse the language, had to say it. This is why I dont do radio interviews.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Well said!

            • 1subgenius

              I’m not quite getting your point.
              Are you saying they’re fucked?

            • aquaclara

              I quoted you today! Hadn’t read this far down in the comments, and after today’s interview with Claire, I thought we were overdue! It’s up top more. :)

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Yeah, no fluff about it!

  • Sunny Sands

    There should be some statute prohibiting minors from being put through the purif.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Bingo. This is why I ask those who still want to “practice” scientology agree not to put children through any part of it. They should all be made to read every single story of every exscientologykids.com, listen in their Own words what they really thought, experienced and went through going through scientology “ethics” hell or the Purif. I still don’t have an answer as to how or why putting children though dangerous quackery is not considered child endangerment, because it clearly is a danger to their physical as well as mental health.

      Before a child even begins the Purif, they have to be Mentally Prepared. This includes getting them into a frame of body of Fear of their own body, fear of the air they breathe, water they drink, food they eat, aspirin, medicine. They are hammered with false information until they believe, or at least agree to parrot the belief, about how toxic their body has become. What is worse, they are now set up to believe even after the Purif that they can become toxic so easily from so many sources.

      Oh, and as to the sunburns showing up, this happens to many people but the cause of it showing up is not what Hubbard made up. Severe sunburns cause breakdowns in the skin cells and will react differently than those that haven’t. I can’t remember if there is also a factor of those cells can’t hold fluids anymore.

      The other dangers of this program occurs when only scientologist doctors or scientology approved medical “assistants”, usually chiropractors or DO’s, are used for medical clearance. There are just too many persons who have been on this program that had conditions that should have been prohibitive. There is another factor that anyone doing this program should know and that is damage or harm often doesn’t show up for many years later.

      For a perspective of the Purif, just like the Super Power PR bull, it wasn’t drugs that were causing the staff to act and behave like they were delirious, mentally confused, sleep deprived, nutritionally starving, delusional, accident prone, unable to mentally process correctly. It was the slave conditions. Key To Life came out as another solution to this problem, but labelled as staff just unethical asses and can’t study. All of these programs were to entice staff not to leave, or those who left to come back. It wasn’t Hubbard’s “Colonel Kurtz” reign of terror that was causing the problem, or the fact that his study tech, ethics tech, management tech was Not working. The Purif is just one Deflect Carrot on a long string of Deflect Carrots that runs all the way up and down the bridge/ladder.

      [IMG]http://i44.tinypic.com/xli23o.jpg[/IMG]

      • PreferToBeAnon2

        great post!

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          tks. Every now and then someone asks the profound question of what the hell do all those scurrying staff Do all day? Other than the few auditor types, we were all Hubbard’s Sales and Marketing Guinea Pigs. It doesn’t take long to get into a Foggy Mental Breakdown state of mind, it really doesn’t. From that point on, your logic and judgment deteriorates. Hubbard needed to find out how to break the paying public’s resistance down to get them pliable and suggestible. Next came the drug of wins, the highs, whether placebo, suggestive, or an actual physical change due to stress or a number of other factors, including physical, all to get you an addicted, repeat customer. All the programs, including Purif, that are at the beginning of the lineup are at the beginning for a planned and intentional reason.

          It’s not easy flipping your view of being a tough sumbitch helping to make the world an easier place to live in …. over to being a broken toy soldier, a Manchurian candidate guinea pig. It’s why we Ex’s sometimes get so nervous and anxious around those who are still True Believers, whether they’re mainlining the kool aid or just sipping it. There is no “cutting down, or cutting back” on scientology, and we know there are still “triggers” under their skin. It’s Cold Turkey or nothing. Or maybe I should call it Cold Pig. snort.

          [IMG]http://i40.tinypic.com/2vkdmqu.jpg[/IMG]

          [IMG]http://i39.tinypic.com/20ze13l.png[/IMG]

    • Exterrier

      Agreed

  • N. Graham

    To just pull this treatment out of his ass and require it to be done by everybody, knowing you are just making it up as you go along, was totally evil. Excessive niacin is especially bad for the liver.

  • 1subgenius

    Not just doses of niacin that are unhealthy:

    “…..consumers don’t know that taking megavitamins could increase their risk of cancer and heart disease and shorten their lives…”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/09/opinion/sunday/dont-take-your-vitamins.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

    • SciWatcher

      Thanks for the link–very interesting. My parents subscribed to the whole the-more-vitamins-the-better POV when I was little. I could never take them; even small doses make me sick to my stomach. Good thing, I guess. I suppose it also means I would never gone far in Scientology!

      • 1subgenius

        Everyone should read the article.
        For the science, for their health, and for the politics of why these potent and potentially harmful substances are not regulated in this country.

    • PreferToBeAnon2

      Interesting article! I wonder if this would explain the unusually high number of cancer deaths on those at the upper levels. Considering they are taking all kinds of vitamins, niacin, etc., for an extended period of time, there must be some effect.

      • Missionary Kid

        With following the fearless leader’s dictum on smoking, I’d imagine a lot of them do that, too. That would also contribute to any stats.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Don’t forget to add the Main Ingredient in this stew….daily stress, volume at 11.

  • BuryTheNuts2

    Demomic Possession=Taco cravings!

    Need an Excorcist!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Gym or Swim. Work it off, Bury. We’ll talk you down.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Gym and swim it is!!!

    • Missionary Kid

      Why not make your own?

    • John P.

      Taco cravings are not demonic possession. They are entirely normal. On those days when I’m not eating lunch at a five-star restaurant, I frequently have tacos delivered to Global Capitalism HQ from a little hole-in-the-wall all the way up in the 110s in Spanish Harlem (don’t worry; the delivery guy gets a tip that’s quite a bit bigger than the actual size of the check for coming all that way). No Dos Equis lager during the work day, however, so I make do with ice cold horchatas or the south-of-the-border pineapple or strawberry sodas.

  • 10oriocookies

    Ive only done the purif 5 times. I got the “EP” and then some smart CS seems to think because I smoke a couple of joints that that was enough accumulated toxins to have me do it again. Shit, I did it 3 times sober. WTF???? Crazy ass church has no business messing with people’s mind and bodies.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      In all honesty, I am surprised more people have not died on the purif. I can’t imagine how someone with high blood pressure or any heart problems could endure that, especially after being pulled off the actual meds they need.

      • SFFrog

        Given the effect of massive doses of Niacin on someone with impaired liver functionality, it’s likely that the purif has contributed to more deaths.

        • 10oriocookies

          I know thousands of people who felt like they were dying. Me included. Sitting on the porcelain god many times a day is like dying in my book.

          • Missionary Kid

            Your body was telling you something. Unfortunately, because of the ignorant dogma of LRH, you were made to ignore it.

      • Sokramor

        Or aquagenic urticaria. When even a 5 minute shower causes problems, I don’t want to imagine what staying in the sauna for so long does…

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Do you think the most ethical people on the planet would tell ignorant wogs that someone died on the Purif? I think not. Any horror stories we Do hear are just representative of the whole, never the whole picture. I do believe, like myself, more people find out about damage decades later but never connect the two unless their following the news about it.

      • FistOfXenu

        BTN, the real stat we want here is all the $cientarCONonists that damaged their liver or kidneys doing the Purif when they were young but couldn’t tell how much damage they did til they were a lot older and the sawbones told them they had real serious organ damage or worse.

    • Mary_McConnell

      Hi Eric… Readers who don’t know you should be aware that you were a Narconon graduate and staff member, who became a scientologist. ( The Bridge to the Bridge ) Are you including your Narconon sauna equivalent ‘purif’ stays in those numbers? Or were these purifs all after you graduated Narconon?
      http://alley.ethercat.com/storage/NarcononIsTheBridge.jpg

      • 10oriocookies

        The purifs were while a staff member of NN and while a student. I think the last three were while on staff. We had our own little HGC at Arrowhead with 3 Class VIII auditors and a CS.

      • Still_On_Your_Side

        That Narconon newsletter should be distributed to every state legislator in every state Narconon has a center.

  • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

    If Scientology were a legitimate church, with legitimate managers, they’d realize that they should just pull out of the Narconons entirely. Stop raking the money out of the Narconons, just pull out entirely, back out of the narconon business entirely.

    The doctorly support for the Purif is just bogus, and better to spend 30 years of testing and research and fund 1 million dollars a year research for 30 years, to see if the Purif is indeed scientifically legitimate, and accept the consequences when it is conclusively proven that the Purif is NOT scientifically legitimate.

    Hubbard’s writings that inspired the original prison program self originated by Arizona prisoners who didn’t even use the Purif, since the Purif didn’t even exist when those prisoners did their own grassroots original program that they made up themselves, might have some basis for helping addicts. Again that is also needing full detailed discussion.

    Hubbard was just so superficially wishing approval for his ideas and “help” he thought he was gloriously providing mankind, and Hubbard had a nonexistent scientific background.

    It takes good writers to really delve through all the history of evidence of Hubbard’s superficiality.

    It’s unfortunate that the whole management of the movement is hoodwinked into Hubbard’s mindset, so they are incapable, as was Hubbard, in realizing their superficiality and unscientific illegitimacy.

    Again, the rock bottom best criticism and laying out of Hubbard, in context of the times, is Martin Gardner’s “Fads and Fallacies” 1952, 1957. One then sees the crank pseudo-quack-therapy of Dianetics in historical context, and one sees the pattern Hubbard started, that continued up to the Purif.

    Must read chapter from Gardner’s book, thanks to Prof Dave Touretzky’s Carnegie Mellon University web site, Touretzky and another CMU staffer did an all time great thing for their site:

    http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/

    (then click on the “Gardner” entry from “Fads and Fallacies”)

    Chuck Beatty
    ex Sea Org (1975-2003)
    866-XSEAORG

    • PreferToBeAnon2

      “better to spend 30 years of testing and research and fund 1 million dollars a year research for 30 years…”

      Ha! They spend more a year on Private Investigators, Squirrel Busters, and other batshit activities instead of spending it on something that could potentially help humankind. Say what you want about the Catholic Church, but they actually provide some social betterment programs that make a difference. Hell, almost any local church or synagogue of any denomination in any US neighborhood does more with their bake sales, adopt a community in need, post-disaster support, or fund drives for charity or a needy family than the billion-dollar Co$.

      • Bleuler

        Yes, those organisations might be helping the needy, but do they do touch assists?

        • PreferToBeAnon2

          i thought we weren’t going to talk about the catholic church

    • 0tessa

      I love reading you every time.

    • Sherbet

      As long as narCON keeps making huge amounts of money, I can’t see cos letting go of it.

      • CoolHand

        Agreed, but that is already starting to change, though. Narconon is about to start COSTING the church money. Narconon Georgia is basically gone, Arrowhead in Oklahoma is down to less than 40 clients (from a high of 250 at one time), Freedom Center in Michigan is having troubles, etc. ABLE and now RTC have been listed as defendants in lawsuits and criminal investigations are still ongoing. We’ll see how long it takes them to cut bait.

  • Truthiwant

    Seeing the picture at the top of the article, I think we need to put the spaghetti on and cook ourselves a spaghetti alle vongole, also known to Italian Scientologists as spaghetti alla Hubbardiana.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Ooh that looks so good!

      • PreferToBeAnon2

        speaking of $cion food… did i hear something yesterday about going to the columbia? now, their rice and beans i can handle!

        • BuryTheNuts2

          We didn’t….but now I am craving Paella!
          Columbia rocks.

          • PreferToBeAnon2

            now you have me wanting tampa restaurants. i wonder what it would take to talk JohnP into flying me out to Bern’s Steakhouse for lunch on his private jet. oh wait, the last i heard his #1 supermodel was limiting his beef intake so perhaps it is a no go. sigh…

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I ate at Ceviches a few nights ago and I had the best chicken liver pate I have ever experienced. It was to die for.
              Tampa Bay area has some good eats!

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              I’ve been going to Ceviche in Orlando for years. Used to be very high on my recommended list. Recently they’ve kind of slipped up and last two visits were very poor. I’m done with them…

            • 1subgenius

              Am I the only one who can’t resist calling it Tampax Florida?

            • FistOfXenu

              Does it have a mini camera in it?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Regular size camera. Tampa(x) is a “super”.

              At least this is one the girls will get!

            • FistOfXenu

              Thanks BTN. I think. :P

          • 1subgenius

            I had paella one time. In Acapulco long ago. It was so good (but then I was a starving wanderer at the time) I’ve craved it ever since, but never found it on a menu (haven’t really sought it out).
            I just found a recipe. My cast iron dutch oven will be put to good use.
            I’m going light to no chicken (for some reason I’ve lost my taste for it), and heavier on the seafood. I know that I’m chasing a rainbow, and that I will never duplicate the taste of my first. It will be great, but still…
            It will be like the worst sex I ever had.
            Fantastic!

            • Missionary Kid

              Paella is a traditional Spanish recipe, but it spread to many of its colonies. Try a Mexican or Cuban restaurant. Each region of each country has a different interpretation of the dish.

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paella I first had paella in Spain many years ago.

              I don’t know it it’s still true, but when I started to jones for some Mexican food in Spain, I couldn’t find any. I think that maybe they consider it colonial food. A Spanish Tortilla is completely different than a Mexican tortilla.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Tampa (and for that matter Florida) has pockets of very traditional Spanish Culture.
              And I would put Columbia’s Paella against some of Spain’s finest!

              But it is hell trying to find a decent Mexican tortilla around here!!!

            • Missionary Kid

              Why not make some?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I leave that to the pros!

            • Missionary Kid

              When I was in Europe years ago, I fixed Mexican food for people. It was exotic for them. I couldn’t find any Mexican tortillas or the ingredients for corn tortillas, so I made flour tortillas. Flour, salt, water. I just made a dough out of flour and water, with a little salt, and rolled it out thin. There’s recipes all over the internet.

              For corn tortillas, here’s one: http://www.simplyrecipes.com/recipes/how_to_make_corn_tortillas/ the thing that may be hard to find is the masa flour.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Flour, salt, water,,,,and Lard…you forgot the lard.
              I know how to make them but I am lazy with a capital LAZEEEEEEEEEE.

            • Missionary Kid

              I understand. If I’m jonesing hard enough, I make something. Unfortunately, I mostly cook for myself, so if I make something, I’ll often end up eating that one thing for a long period of time.

              Interesting interview with Andrew Zimmern. I just saw him as the host of Bizarre Foods, but his commentary on food shows is interesting: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/10/andrew-zimmern-99-percent_n_3417844.html

              Even though I grew up and lived in Southern California for most of my life, I didn’t have Mexican food until I was probably a teenager. We rarely ate out, probably to save money.

              One of my favorite dishes is spinach enchiladas.

            • ParticleMom

              Thanks, I’ll try that one. I always get “glutened” by the corn tortillas in the store, even if they say they are gluten free.

            • Missionary Kid

              My opinion is that gluten only affects a few people, but health faddists have made it the latest thing. It doesn’t bother me. If you’ve been diagnosed by an internist as having ciliac disease, yes avoid it. Otherwise, call me a skeptic.

              The good thing is probably that people are cutting down on grains.

              It’s like the whole thing about MSG. If you have a problem with MSG, stop eating tomatoes, which have a lot of it in them. There are other foods that are high in MSG.

            • ParticleMom

              I am diagnosed. I agree, though. People who are doing at as a fad diet make it harder for those of us who really need it.

            • Missionary Kid

              I hope that the fad has made it easier for you to find appropriate food. Hopefully, the labels are accurate.

            • Spackle Motion

              I got food poisoning from a bad batch of paella in Barcelona. I spent three terrible days never leaving my hotel room (which was a terrible hotel on Las Ramblas) and also fought off someone trying to steal my backpack once I was finally able to go outside.

              I’ll never go to Spain again and I’ll never eat paella again. The only thing I could watch on the 3 channels received by the hotel room television was the BBC news channel, and I still get strange waves of feeling ill when I hear the opening/bumper BBC music it to this day.

            • John P.

              So if I understand what you’re saying, paella is a dangerous drug that ought to disqualify people from serving in the Sea Org. You had a dose of paella that caused a bad trip. And now whenever you see BBC News, you get a paella flashback. Therefore, paella residue must be remaining in your body. Thanks for helping me Think Like Hubbard!

            • FistOfXenu

              It also means Spackle Motion needs an immediate Purif Rundown.

            • Missionary Kid

              Sorry to hear about it. Here’s a question for you, are you allergic to any of the seafood in Paella? Clams, shrimp, etc?

              Barcelona was also the place where there was a restaurant that had a patio where I could enjoy a beer. I saw that they were serving “onion rings,” so I asked the waiter for the same thing. They were fried calamari rings. I loved them and kept coming back for more.

              I also had snails there. As far as I’m concerned, it was the sauce that made the dish taste good. The snails? Meh.

            • FistOfXenu

              You’re not the only person that won’t go back to Spain. I think Heber would avoid the place even if DM was willing to let him off the leash.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              So sorry you had a bad experience in Barcelona. Please, please give this beautiful city and its charming people another chance.

              My only Spanish paella was in Barcelona. After seeking out a fine restaurant, my dinner companions chided me for ordering a “peasant” dish. I didn’t care, as having authentic Spanish paella was on my bucket list.

              The plates arrived, and mine was kind of unexpected looking. I queried the waiter, and after some baffling back-and-forth (in his bad English and my worse Spanish), we finally established that I was enjoying their “preparation” (read: snooty, upscale version) of the traditional paella.

              Sigh.

            • 1subgenius

              So I Googled. A nearby place, which is now closed, had it, but the review was “tasted like microwaved Rice-A-Roni” Good thing its closed.
              The only other place is 15 miles away and its $24 for a serving. Probably good though, its an elite place.
              I may go there so I have some idea of how mine should turn out.
              BTW, I called a Mexican restaurant and asked if they had it and they said “That’s a Spanish dish!”.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              DO EET!!!

            • Missionary Kid

              Seafood in general is getting more expensive because of overfishing (except for shrimp, which are often farm raised).

              The best Mexican restaurants here in California are the hole-in-the-wall family run ones.

              Try Googling mariscos

            • aquaclara

              also famous in Portugese restaurants…it’s worth googling. I posted the Columbia’s famous yummy rice recipe above, too.

            • 1subgenius

              No can find. BTW “above” has no meaning when there are different sort options for viewing posts.

            • aquaclara

              Oh, I know! sorry.
              I hop in and out between meetings and calls, and some days, there are 200 more messages that just jumped in there!!! Here you go: Columbia Restaurant recipes…
              Quite a great place; the original is in Tampa (Ybor City) which has struggled economically but the food is as great as ever.
              http://www.columbiarestaurant.com/recipes_wines_list.asp

            • 1subgenius

              Thank you. Your kindness is appreciated.
              Amazing. A restaurant that posts its recipes.

          • aquaclara
        • Truthiwant

          Talking about food and drink, I thought I would share a Freewinds story that happened to me.

          I was on the Freewinds many years ago and the ship had docked at
          Bonaire. One evening a beach party picnic had been organized on a small island
          a few miles away. There were about thirty of us and we all crowded in to a
          little boat that shipped us to this sandy beach. When we got to the island, one
          of the Scientologists that I think was on the Freewinds for his OTVIII decided he
          would have a swim and waded out in to the sea. A moment later there was a cry
          of agony from him. He had been stung by a Jelly fish! He was in great pain and
          the person in charge told him to do a contact assist! You could see that the
          guy needed some medical assistance but that wasn’t important.

          As far as the Freewinds group was concerned, there is a limit to what
          you can talk about to people that can not say anything about what they are doing!
          Getting a bit bored, I noticed that about a hundred yards away there was
          another group of people on the beach. They were Dutch biologists and scientists
          that were there studying the turtles. It was fascinating and they had come
          specifically to the beach that evening because it was the time of year that the
          turtles hatched. As soon as they hatch under the sand they rush down to the safe
          haven of the sea to start their life.

          I spent about an hour with the Dutch biologists and when I eventually
          returned to the Freewinds group, I noticed that Mr.Jelly Fish OT was sitting
          down on the beach next to the water still giving himself some kind of touch
          assist. He was suffering, looked awful and his leg and arm were all red. I
          think in the end he had to see a real doctor! So much for his OT abilities!

          By now the food hampers for the picnic had already been opened up and
          there was not much in them except some potato chips and biscuits but the funny
          thing was that the Freewinds organizers had brought a whole lot of cans of non-alcoholic beer to drink and there was not even one can left unopened. Apparently,
          the whole lot had been drunk immediately by the Scientologists and all I could see
          were some bottles of Coca Cola and a stack of empty beer cans! I thought, Jeez,
          these guys must have been desperate for a beer.
          And so was I but I had to wait until I got off the ship a few days later. A real beer, though!

          • FistOfXenu

            Touch assist on jelly fish stings? They’d’ve done better wading out and pissing on him.

            PissAssist (TM) Technology. It’s wog but it works.

            • Truthiwant

              It’s a strange thing when a Scientologist hurts himself. Remember, he pulled it in on himself. Nobody is allowed to offer any sympathy and the further up the Bridge one is, the less it is wanted to be known by the Organization that someone is injured, particularly in front of other people.
              Once when I was at Saint Hill, a young Sea Org member had been killed in a car crash. I tried to ask what had happened but there was cold silence from almost everybody. I am sure they were more concerned about the possible bad publicity and not the death of the youngster. One person actually said to me that he had overts!

            • Miss Davidoff

              Same story here with an L´s completion who died in a car accident shortly after.

              I remember well going through a sequence of

              1.initial shock, when I heard about it
              2. thinking “this stuff doesn´t work” but not saying it
              3. being told in a concerned, grave voice “He had overts”
              4 .comparing this “explanation” with the hype about the power of the L´s in the continuing barrage of promo
              5. disregarding the huge contradiction of promoted results and the sad fate of the accident victim, thinking that his untimely death was a kind of “singularity”
              6. simply carrying on with my existence as a scientologist.

            • Truthiwant

              There’s no point in talking about these things with a Sea Org member or even some public Scientologists. The moment you question the “Tech” is the moment they start to rant on about overts, pulling it in on oneself, out ethics and having an SP.
              If any of us had been sensible, we would have just got up and walked out of the Org for good right then and there.
              It’s interesting. You did the sequence 1 through 6. Had you done the exact opposite, 6 through 1, you would have been out of the cult!

            • Miss Davidoff

              Interesting idea, thanks for the reply :)

              I think every moment of cognitive dissonance which is strong enough to reach our conscious mind is a kind of fork.

              It is our subconsciousness or may be metaconsciousness ( if one is inclined to assume this exists) telling us; “Hey, you have the opportunity to make a substantial change in your way of living right here and right now.”

              It is our free decision to make use of this opportunity or to continue in our well established ways.

              Starting to read up on the cult I left so many years ago has taught me something about cognitive dissonance. Before I would have registered those feelings and bodily sensations simply as a moment of internal tension and feeling more or less out of balance for some time.

              Now I know that it is an indication of said fork. I can make use of the encysted energy in those weird feelings, set them free and use them as fuel to enter a new pathway.

              Or I can ignore them and carry on (lots of experience with this option :)

              Realizing I have the freedom to decide what to do when those unpleasant feelings arise is a “win” for me.

              Indirectly it stems form $tology even if delivered decades too late – bu tthat´s typical for our beloved ex-cult, isn´t it?

              Thank you Ron… bwhahahahaha.

            • Truthiwant

              A PissAssist by a PissArtist.

          • aquaclara

            So are you telling me there are no bars with fun fruity drinks and endless buckets of real beer on the Freewinds???

            • Truthiwant

              Yeah, Happy Hour on the Freewinds is dryer than the Sahara desert.

            • aquaclara

              Ok, that’s the next set of Anon raid signs. It’s sure to stop any inflow of potential culties the moment THAT gets out.
              Scientology is
              Filled with FRUITS….But Not 1 Margarita.
              Get off the boat now!
              Scientology…it’s always worse than you think.

    • aquaclara

      That looks good. But I prefer the red clam sauce. You know, from the ones right out of the Purif.

  • 0tessa

    Why not use niacin to get rid of the body-thetans? Wouldn’t that be much more efficient and cheaper? I’m sure the cult is able to make enough people believe that it works.

    • PreferToBeAnon2

      “Wouldn’t that be much more efficient and cheaper?”

      the answer is: because it would be much more efficient and cheaper.

      • 0tessa

        Oh yes, I forgot …

    • Truthiwant

      Niacin was considered at one time to kill off Body Thetans but it was deemed as being cruel. Infact there is a group called the NSPBT which is the National Society for the Protection of Body Thetans. There is a hefty fine if they find you using niacin to rid yourself of them.

  • F_Randy_Hullabaloo

    Dr. Strangelove – Precious Bodily Fluids :

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1KvgtEnABY

    • 1subgenius

      Damn, you read my mind.
      I was gonna have a contest.

    • Missionary Kid

      I’m sure that’s where the headline came from: good ‘ol General Jack D. Ripper.

  • Captain Howdy

    Q – How do you steam clams?

    A – Make fun of their religion.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      That was so good I had to forward it to Mr. Nuts!

    • Missionary Kid

      That goes into my collection of bon mots about Clamland. Thanks.

      • Captain Howdy

        Don’t thank me. It supposedly came from Johnny Carson. Even though I have been unable to verify that.

        • Missionary Kid

          I doubt it did, considering how many people in forwarded emails like to add a famous name to a quote.

          Among the popular people who didn’t say what forwarded emails say they did are Johnny Carson, Bill Cosby, Andy Rooney, and George Carlin. Carlin basically gave up on trying to stop all the misquotes. Rooney had a post taking people to task for adding his name.

          • FistOfXenu

            Don’t forget Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin. And they can’t even fight back.

            • Missionary Kid
            • FistOfXenu

              Priceless!

            • Missionary Kid

              I think I stole it from someone on this list.

            • http://valerierossonline.com/ Valerie Ross

              My brother actually did a blog that started with the (fake) quote. “People will accept your ideas more readily if you tell them Benjamin Franklin said it first.” . . . Abraham Lincoln

            • Missionary Kid

              I’ll bet someone quoted him on that.
              I laughed at your post. Thanks.

            • FistOfXenu

              Stole it? That makes it even better somehow.

            • Robert Eckert

              It was from me. MK couldn’t steal it because I gave it to him; I however am a shameless thief who stole it from someone else.

            • Missionary Kid

              Thank you. I’ve used it over and over when someone sends me a bullshit quote.

          • Captain Howdy

            Supposedly the scilons tried to recruit Carson’s son, and Carson was a well documented skeptic in all things supernatural and paranormal. He and Randi were good friends.

            Also, it’s well known that Steve Allen and the scilons butted heads. So it could have been his joke instead.

            Scroll down

            http://www.xenu.net/clam_faq.html

            • Missionary Kid

              I didn’t attribute it to anyone, so, as much as I’d like to give you credit, because you say a lot of perceptive things, you didn’t get credit, nor did anyone else. ;-)

          • Robert Eckert

            “I never said half those things I said” — Yogi Berra

            • Missionary Kid

              I couldn’t pull that one out of my memory. Thanks.

            • Robert Eckert

              There’s maybe a 50% chance that quote is genuine, right?

            • Missionary Kid

              I heard Yogi say that, but a little differently, in an interview. As I remember it, he said something like,”I never said half the things that people told me I said.”

            • Missionary Kid

              Probably.

              One quote that is accurate is, “When you come to a fork in the road, take it.” Driving to Yogi’s house, you will come to a fork in the road. Since the road is a circle after the fork, either way you go will get you to Yogi’s house.

        • Truthiwant

          When Johnny Carson interviewed Jack Nicklaus’s wife, he asked her what she did to help inspire him before a big match. She said “I kiss his balls” and Jonny Carson replied “I bet that makes his putter stiff!”

          • Edward Whalley

            Actually it was “I bet that makes his putter flutter!”
            And yes, I did see the video.

    • Jgg2012

      Q. How do Scientologists raise money?
      A. Clambakes

      • Missionary Kid

        That, too, goes in my collection. Good one.

    • Jgg2012

      Q. What do Sea Org members drink?
      A. Clam chowder

      • Zana

        Q. How do you feel doing the Purif?
        A. Clammy.
        (groan. … I tried)

        • Tron Javolta

          nyuk nyuk! I still got a chuckle!

  • http://infinitecomplacency.blogspot.com/ Jonathan Jacobsen

    Interesting that Claire says five hours was the minimum for the sauna sessions: one of the defendants in the
    2009 Paris trial insisted that this was the maximum. (She was convicted of the illegal practice of pharmacy and on appeal, her fine was increased from 2,000 to 10,000 euros.)

    And as Claire said, the doses off niacin used during the Rundown are off the scale. The lawyer for France’s Order of Pharmacists noted during the trial that the maximum recommended daily dose of niacin, or Vitamin B3, was 54 mg: and yet, he said, Hubbard had recommended taking between 100 and 5,000 mg of niacin per day
    during the Rundown.

    Like Claire, one of the plaintiffs in the case reported that she had suffered stomach cramps during the Rundown. (as well as a skin rash and sleeping difficulties). An expert witness told the court that this was understandable given the massive doses of vitamins she was taking. (Another expert witness summed up the Rundown as “quackery”.)

    A second Rundown graduate said he became delerious, experienced violent mood swings and hallucinated
    during the treatment.

    • 1subgenius

      The scientific studies on niacin overdose alone should be enough to close every Narconon.

  • I am

    I had a positive reaction to the purif, but it needed professional supervision. I saw lots of tar come out of pores in myself and others. One person had severe swelling in the joints and ended up on crutches for awhile. He had a history of steroids. Medically, the high doses of niacin can help with lipids and atherosclerosis . I may do it again on my own some day. Ha.

    • Missionary Kid

      $cion alert.

    • SciWatcher

      You saw tar come out of your pores? Really? Were you high?

      • 1subgenius

        Tar-baby alert.

        • FistOfXenu

          The tar baby’s saying nothing.

      • Bleuler

        I so missed that part of Physiology. Don’t remember either eccrine or apocrine sweat glands being able to secrete tar. Maybe i was already under the influence of my psych implant.

        • 1subgenius

          It wasn’t tar. It was his liver.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            ouch

          • Miss Davidoff

            Lol. Brutal.

      • Captain Howdy

        “Were you high?”

        Maybe they were high on black tar.

        • 1subgenius

          Reading my mind again.

        • Kim O’Brien

          crap ..i am late to the black tar party

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            You never know what kind of party you’ll find at the Bunkers.

            [IMG]http://i39.tinypic.com/23j31aw.jpg[/IMG]

    • 1subgenius

      The vitamin niacin can cause significant side effects and offers no benefits for patients at high risk of heart disease who are taking cholesterol-lowering statin drugs.

      http://www.ox.ac.uk/media/news_stories/2013/130310.html

    • Spackle Motion

      You do realize that the “tar” coming from your skin is a sign of a niacin overdose, right?

      http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/niacin-overdose/AN01644

      The flushing of the skin, when exposed to heat causes that effect. You cannot believe how dangerous the purif and taking such a large amount of niacin really is to the liver and other organs.

      Don’t be a fool. Do some research from real scientists before you make statements like that.

    • Truthiwant

      Are you a road resurfacing asphalter?
      You know, to get rid of the dirty tar in your pores, most work men have a good shower. Very few spend $1700 on sauna treatment.

    • Sidney18511

      That’s why it is a WELL KNOWN fact to watch your TAR consumption.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      “I don’t eat friggin’ lobster or anything like that. Because they’re alive when you kill it.”
      ― Nicole “Snooki” Polizzi

      YOU (I am), ….need to look to Snooki for wisdom, obviously!

      • 1subgenius

        “….they’re alive when you kill it.”
        Yogi Berra would be proud.
        “Hey, Yogi, what time is it?”
        Yogi: “You mean right now?”

  • California

    In addition to the scientific voices bringing clarity to the issue of Narconon’s Purif Rundown, the SF Chronicle articles set in public motion the begging of the end of Narconon Drug Education in the SFUSD and through-out the California public education system Nine years ago, on June 9,

    2004, the SF Chronicle began a 12-article series on Narconon Drug Education in the SFUSD and through-out the California public education system, by-lined by education reporter Nanette Asimov. (The articles can be found in the archives section of the SF Chronicle.)

    This was,the beginning of the end of Narconon Drug Education in the U.S. as well as helping to lead to the long-anticipated closing of the Narconon Drug Rehabilitation facilities (hopefully in 2013/2014) as the unscientific and dangerous nature of the Narconon Drug Rehabilitation program began to be disseminated by the SF Chronicle and then in national and international media coverage.

    When the California Department of Education agreed to evaluate the Narconon Drug Education curriculum, in April of 2004, the small team knew that we were over-the-hump in finally getting some public education recognition directed the challenges attendant to Narconon Drug Education being forced into California’s public education classrooms, without parental knowledge or permission. And we were. With the continuing articles from Nanette delineating the extent of Narconon Drug Education in California public schools and teaching about the false-science of Narconon Drug Education, the general public plus the public education and substance abuse education sector became aware of the problems with Narconon and its relationship with Scientology.

    And the various statements and actions of Clark Carr, Head of the SF Org and OSA Jeff Quiros, Tony Blysma, SCN Patron George Wynns, SFUSD BOE member Jill Wynns, OSA Eugene Ingram, Bob Adams, assorted P.I.’s and OSAs quickly educated the San Francisco Police Department and others about the lengths that SCN/Narconon would go in order to remain having access to the school children in California. And they all flunked.

    In Feb. 2005, the California Department of Education issued its findings (here is the beginning: http://www.cde.ca.gov/ls/he/at/narcononevaluation.asp) against Narconon Drug Education and recommending against its use in California public and charter schools. The study and finding is still used in educating school boards, parents, superintendents and principals when Narconon Drug Education tries to gain access to students.

    • RMycroft

      I wish it was the end of Narconon Drug Education in the U.S., but they keep trying to sneak in the backdoor, as well as finding teachers and administrators too careless and lazy to do a simple Internet search.

      • California

        And increasingly often parents and others start wondering what is going on, google Narconon Drug Education, and then contact the Board of Ed, principal, media, etc., using the California Department of Education Feb. 2005 finding. This is called a “teach-able moment.” Repeat. This is happening much much less than it was a decade or even five years ago, so those of us in for the long haul are seeing progress.

        Yes, for awhile longer, SCN/Narconon will keep trying to access school children without their parents knowledge or consent, I think. But with the anticipated shutdowns of the Narconon Drug Rehabs (secondary to the much more strict SAMHSA laws/rules/reg), law-suits, insurance fraud investigations, etc., over 2013 and 2014, this should slow down. I hope.

  • ze moo

    Some how I find taking medical advice from a college dropout whose brain was infested with billions of dead space alien cooties less then useful. Its not the dropout part that bothers me, its the cooties and their exorcism ritual. Lrooon’s only ‘gift’ was the ability to con others into doing things his way. “Gift” is the german word for poison.

    • 1subgenius

      “Some how I find taking medical advice from a college dropout whose brain was infested with billions of dead space alien cooties less then useful.”

      Nicely put.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      The beauty of this Dr Howard Dr Fine Dr Howard clip is that in the beginning it shows the Actual scientology PAC (blue building now) entrance. The clip labels is Los Alms Hospital. It was Cedars Hosp.

      http://youtu.be/53KcqITIPlA

  • RMycroft

    Meh. If the Purif worked, then old sunburns wouldn’t keep reappearing. They’d appear for the first Purif, would be run out and wouldn’t reappear after that.

  • Racnad

    One of the absurd unproven medical claims about the Purification Rundown is that all of your body fat is replaced by the wheat germ oil you’re taking. While many people did lose weight on the purify, a non-skinny person doesn’t necessarily finish as a skinny person. But we’re supposed to believe that the body fat he/she had at the start had been flushed out (along with drugs, radiation & other toxins) and replaced with new body fat. How does an e-Meter measure how much body fat ahs been recycled? And what if the wheat germ oil you’re taking contains radiation or toxins absorbed from the environment?
    Another non-scientific claim from the Purif: “There is no such thing as a fat cell!” Anyone care to comment on that?

    • Bleuler

      Well despite LRH’s extensive scientific pursuits he seems to have overlooked something known as a microscope. Any first year medical student, even the rather dense ones, can identify an adipocyte (fat cell) in a histological slide.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Throwing up routinely will get rid of a lot of “mass”, ugh. Also, some people hadn’t exercised at all before, and now were exercising. Some actually eat better while on the program (public, not staff of course). It IS a good thing to consume healthy oils.

    • FistOfXenu

      How about this. For somebody that didn’t believe there are fat cells he sure did have a lot of them. How the hell did he imagine the body has fat “tissue” to carry around all the drugs and poisons he imagined are in our bodies? And what did he think his body did to carry around all that blubber he had on him? Blubber Lego bricks? Lincoln lard logs?

      Maybe when he was stoned enough Hubbard imagined that what real doctors call fat cells are really a special kind of BTs.

    • grundoon

      Dr. Hubbard prescribes… There is an oil called “All Blend” which has the four essential oils in it (soy, walnut, peanut and safflower oil) which is available in the US in health food stores. If this type of oil is not obtainable elsewhere, one could blend it from these four oils in the proper amounts, or find an adequate substitute. “All Blend” oil would be best but any oil used must be cold-pressed and polyunsaturated. …

      Toxic substances tend to lock up mainly, but not exclusively, in the fat tissue of the body. (There is no such thing as a fat cell.) The theory, then, is that one could replace the fat tissues that hold these accumulations. The body will actually tend to hold onto something it is short of. Thus, if you try to get rid of something it is short of, it won’t give it up. So, in the matter of oil, if the person takes some oil the body might possibly exchange the good oil for the bad fat in the body. That is the basic theory. It is a theory of exchange…. If one wants somebody to clean up the fat tissue in the body, he had better give the body some fat in order to make up for the fat tissues the body is now releasing or changing. The effort is to get the body to take good oil or fat in exchange for the bad fat it is holding onto. In this way we have some chance of getting the body to release fatty tissue which is impregnated with toxic substances. …

      The exact quantity of oil needed by the person on the rundown has not been definitely established, but it is very likely somewhere between two tablespoonsful and a half a cup. One tablespoonful of oil is not going to accomplish much. Too little oil won’t let the body substitute the fat tissue. If too much is given it can cause diarrhea. One way to test for the right amount of oil for the person would be to put him on a scale and keep a close check on his weight. This should be done routinely in any event when a person is on the Purification Rundown. If the fat is being replaced in the body despite the intake of oil then the weight will not go up. If the body is simply assimilating the oil, with no exchange in fat tissue, the weight will go up. Change in weight would tend to indicate whether or not the body was exchanging old fat tissue for new fat tissue or simply adding new fat tissue. All people, be they fat or thin, have some fatty tissue. Some of course have more fat stored in their bodies than others. On this program we simply want to get rid of the fat that contains the toxic substances, we are not even trying to make people lose weight. (Worth mentioning here is also the fact, particularly in regard to thin people, that while toxic substances lock up mainly in fat tissue it does not mean that the person cannot have drug deposits inside cells.) One could not expect the results that can be achieved on the Purification Rundown without sufficient oil intake. – HCO BULLETIN OF 6 FEBRUARY 1978: THE PURIFICATION RUNDOWN REPLACES THE SWEAT PROGRAM

      • BuryTheNuts2

        This really sucks all the fun out of the oiliness table!

      • Phil McKraken

        That bulletin is stunning. I am at a loss for words. How could anyone read this and not spot the compulsive liar behind its authorship? It has that definite air of being made up on the spot. It’s the smell of bovine scat.

        • John P.

          The assertion that there is no such thing as a fat cell is bizarre in the extreme. I don’t know when fat cells were discovered but I believe it had to be decades before Hubbard wrote this. The metabolism of fat is actually quite complex. For Hubbard to present this bizarre idea that fat is stored internally in the same form as vegetable oils that you can drink, and thus you can “replace” old drug-laced fat with new “clean” fat is simply bizarre. It is almost like the theory of voodoo dolls applied to medicine: eat something clean and your body will emulate the cleanliness of what you ate, just like stabbing a doll that resembles an enemy with a pin will cause your enemy real pain in real life.

    • grundoon

      Drinking peanut oil could make you really sick if you’re allergic.

  • PreferToBeAnon2

    Poor Katie Holmes fell for the con… her hands turned blue! Does anyone know how long the side effects last?
    I wonder what she has to say about it now.

    http://www.bittenandbound.com/2008/07/21/katie-holmes-hands-discolored-from-scientology-purification-rundown-purif/

    • 1subgenius

      Thanks for refreshing our recollection.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist
      • PreferToBeAnon2

        Love it! When I broke up with a beau a few years back, I threw a Blue Party to cheer myself up. All the food was blue (blue corn chips, blueberries, etc.), all music either was blue related or was the blues, everyone wore blue, and the house was decorated blue. I had a giant Blue Moon hanging from the entryway ceiling. If I had known that the Purif was the ticket, I would have made it mandatory for the party. Oh well.

        • 1subgenius

          Make up just to break up so you can do it.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Hot tub parties. I’m still pissed I missed the hot naked tub parties. Hmmm, maybe that’s how Hub came up with the idea. Nobody invited him to those wild abandon scientology bubbling affairs, so he made up his own version and made everyone come to his party. Ron was such a party pooper.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      I see that was in 2008. Hope Katie isn’t storing any of this in her cells all these years later…

      • 0tessa

        It definitely did not stay in her braincells!

  • Pete Griffiths

    I took 3 weeks to complete my purif, well, I had a drugs past and to be honest I felt a lot cleaner and brighter when I was done but think about it, I’d just spent 3 weeks in a sauna! Of course I’m going to feel clean and bright.

    • Missionary Kid

      Also, were you then eating right and exercising?

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    I am baffled that any organization is allowed to routinely engage in such clearly harmful activities. Psychological abuse is hard to prove, but this is organic.

    And why is this deemed necessary for children? Do Scientologists believe that kids have been injesting harmful drugs all their life?

    (This image courtesy of the publicly available Facebook page of our friends at the South Coast Mission.)

    • Couch_Incident

      It might be difficult to get around the “religious” practice of using niacin, but for the supposedly secular Narconon, the niacin treatment in toxic doses should be actionable and would probably amount to malpractice if supervised by one of their (non-existent) physicians. I suppose if a patient damaged her liver, it might become a question of whether it was the drugs or the niacin that did it.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      This is sick!

    • Bob

      It supposedly removes toxins not just drugs. unfortunately it does not remove heavy metals like mercury that are a real threat to the body. But kids do not really need this. But it is the bottom of the bridge and everyone follows the cookie cutter plan. No exceptions.

      • FistOfXenu

        Sorry Bob but it doesn’t do what it’s supposed to do. Poisoning your body with overdoses of vitamins isn’t removing toxins it’s adding more toxins.

        • Bob

          Read my reply to missionary kid and THDNE.

          • FistOfXenu

            I know Bob. I didn’t think you were defending it. I saw the supposedly. I was just jumping off from what you said. I can’t tell you how mad it makes me to see these poisonous bastards doing this to people. A buddy with agent orange poisoning got sucked into a Purif Rundown because there really isn’t any way back from agent orange and he didn’t think he had anything more to lose. He was wrong.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Don’t get me started on the Purif quack run on Veterans.

      • Missionary Kid

        Bob, read through some of the references that people cite here, and you’ll find it’s another example of Hubtard’s “Woo woo,” which means false, made up stuff. He had no medical degree, nor had he ever done any testing or research on what was going on.

        I like a sauna occasionally. If a person has actual alcohol in their system, it may speed up it’s passage through the skin or evaporation from the breath because of the relative dryness of a sauna, but once alcohol is out of the system, it has no physiological benefit.

        The Hub was of the opinion that if some is good, more is better. In physiology, that can be fatal. Salt is necessary for life, but too much kills.

        If you don’t believe the people posting here, just Google effects of Niacin or something along those lines.

        The idea of sweating evil out of one’s system goes along with the Indian practice of having sweat lodges.

        • Bob

          I am amazed that you take my statement as a defense. I guess as soon as the name Bob shows up it means defending the Hubb?

          • Missionary Kid

            I guess my statement about reading the whole comment hasn’t shown up yet. I goofed, Bob, and I apologize.

            One of the things that has happened here is that some of the newly out still have some of the Hubtard propaganda attached to odd recesses of their minds. I reacted to that instead of looking at what you actually posted.

      • Spackle Motion

        The body already has an elaborate system for removing toxins. It’s called the renal system.

        I can’t believe that people buy into colonics, Scientology’s Purif, or any other quack stuff to help them ‘cleanse’. If LRH were around today, I would bet money that he would add colonics to the Purif, and/or any of that quack stuff to get your intestines cleaned out.

        • Missionary Kid

          Colonics were around long before LRH wrote Dianetics, and they were popular among chiropractors when he wrote his trash. My dad occasionally would have them from his chiropractor at that time.

          • FistOfXenu

            I almost tried it once but it sounded like too much of a pain in the ass.

            • Observer

              Grrrroooaaaaannn n

            • FistOfXenu

              Better you than me, but sorry all the same.

            • Observer

              So many insincere apologies today, FoX! ;-)

            • FistOfXenu

              I’m plenty sincere. Just not sincere enough to get irrigated. :P

          • monkeyknickers

            God really?! I can’t even imagine that process!

        • Bob

          A guy named Michael Wisner makes a career out of lecturing on the evils of toxins in our world. The church uses him all the time.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            You bring up a good point. Woowoo attracts Woowoo. Billion dollar industry in alternative new age stuff. There’s a darn good reason scientology grooms and markets chiro’s and DO’s and Not mainstream medical. And That group has their own clientele who are possible candidates for the scientology woowoo.

            • Bob

              Scare tactics. Wisner knows how to scare the shit out of people. If he could only scare the toxins out of them he could bypass the purif.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Scientology…a River of Fear runs through it.

            • Bob

              Great metaphor.

            • Missionary Kid

              Another one for my quote log.

            • FistOfXenu

              Here we are

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              I love this sign. tks

            • FistOfXenu

              Glad to oblige.

            • ze moo

              Shouldn’t it be ‘a river of shit runs through us’???

            • FistOfXenu

              That’s another option.

        • stateofcircle

          The placebo effect is a powerful thing.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist
        • Bob

          I qualified my statement with supposedly. I was not defending it just answering the question posed.

          • Missionary Kid

            Note to self: read posts more carefully before replying.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Okeedokee.

    • Observer

      This makes me want to sit down and blubber. That poor sweet innocent child.

    • RMycroft

      “Taking niacin in such high amounts can be, to put it lightly, extremely hazardous to one’s health, according to Dr. Manoj K. Mittal, a fellow in Emergency Medicine at The Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia. In a case study that appeared in April’s edition of the Annals of Emergency Medicine, Mittal reported on two adults and two adolescents who suffered serious side effects from taking large amounts of niacin as a vitamin supplement. Both adult patients suffered skin irritation, while both adolescents had potentially fatal reactions to niacin—including liver toxicity and hypoglycemia (low blood sugar) as well as nausea, vomiting and dizziness. One of the teens even experienced heart palpitations. All four patients recovered after treatment.”

      The Rundown on Scientology’s Purification Rundown May 30, 2007, John DeSio, New York Press
      http://web.archive.org/web/20071013172721/http://www.nypress.com/20/22/news&columns/feature.cfm

      It would be interesting to know what the “large amounts of niacin” were compared to the Purif’s mega-dose.

    • aquaclara

      This is child abuse. And parents who let this happen to their children should have their children removed from their “care” until the parents understand how to be good parents.

    • FeeIsMe

      This gives me the sads!

    • ze moo

      One of the few legal hopes of the anti-clams is an age limit on certain ‘religious practices’ that can endanger children. Snake handling Christians can’t let their children under the age of 18 pay with the snakes. Someday the ‘purif’ could be in the same category of child abuse. It will unfortunately take several child deaths to get the FDA to take action.

    • Captain Howdy

      That’s one of the saddest scientology related things i’ve ever seen. I feel like I’m looking at kiddie porn or something.

      • stillgrace

        I sincerely hope that her left arm appears distorted and discolored only because of the camera angle or something.

    • grundoon

      Kids might not have a drug history in present time, but remember they are immortal thetans who absorbed loads of drugs and toxins in past lives. After running out your PT toxins, you get started on your whole track toxins. So you never really finish the Purif, you always need to do it again to go further down the whole track. Hubbard says the Purif is done exclusively for spiritual, not physical, “benefit,” to remove spiritual obstacles to auditing. :-(

      • EnthralledObserver

        I really don’t understand that – it’s a physical treatment that produces physical effects (not the ones touted, but some nonetheless). So, how can you use a physical process to remove spiritual toxins? What a load of BS. Honestly, the idiocy of some people…

  • John P.

    The theory is that drugs and toxins stay in your system for many years after the fact, and that they are locked into your fatty tissue, and can release at any time, causing you to act irrationally.

    This is one of Hubbard’s bizarre assertions that always sends me over the edge because it is so blatantly and obviously false. The first time I heard this, I checked with a friend who happens to be one of the world’s foremost experts in pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics (how the body metabolizes drugs and how drugs interact with the body, respectively). When he finished laughing derisively, he confirmed what I already knew: by definition, drugs are much more reactive in the body than other substances.

    Drugs are chemically functionally equivalent to other toxins in high dosages. That’s because all toxins are poisonous because they are more reactive in important metabolic pathways than the substances they replace. A case in point: carbon monoxide is a toxin because it binds to hemoglobin molecules in the body far more aggressively than oxygen does, and it doesn’t release as easily. So if you breathe too much carbon monoxide, you suffocate because CO crowds out oxygen, and it stays bound to hemoglobin for a long time, and your cells don’t get enough oxygen. However, even though CO doesn’t release easily from the hemoglobin molecule, a less-than-fatal dose will eventually dissipate. So CO is a toxin that doesn’t stay in the body even though it binds tightly to hemoglobin.

    The thing that distinguishes drugs from other toxins is that they have medically beneficial effects at doses below the toxic level. That’s especially true of drugs used in chemotherapy: chemo drugs are deadly poisons that just happen to kill cancer cells faster than they kill the rest of your cells. Recreational drugs are less toxic than chemo drugs and have less predictable side effects than medically useful drugs such as anesthetics.

    But the overriding point is that drugs and toxins are what they are because they are more reactive than the substances they crowd out — so they not only go to work faster, they are metabolized quickly. That means no drugs remain in the body after a certain period of time. Pharmacokinetic modeling at this point is sufficiently advanced to predict the metabolic rates of all sorts of drugs quite accurately. Improved instrumentation to detect drug activity at progressively lower levels (parts per billion these days) proves that there is absolutely zero drug left in the body at some predictable point after use. That is true of all drugs, medically used or recreational. Period.

    And that most certainly includes LSD. Another friend is a physician who happened to be a serious Deadhead. He volunteered during his residency and post-doc at the Haight-Ashbury Free Clinic, which did medical duty at concerts in SF. He got great seats for all the Grateful Dead shows back in the day, and never had to do much because the Deadheads were all such pro’s that nobody ever actually OD’d at concerts (compared to teenagers at heavy metal shows who OD’d all the time). He confirmed that LSD is metabolized completely just like any other drug. Flashbacks are due to many factors, not due to residual LSD left in your system.

    The small number of toxins that aren’t metabolized by the body typically include heavy metals, which aren’t part of any metabolic pathways, and which are too big to be metabolized by the kidneys or liver, and which end up serving as catalysts for carcinogenic reactions. Inert elements can also be dangerous: radon is harmful because it is both radioactive and inert, which means it builds up in the body over time and continues to do damage. Those are among the relatively few examples of toxins that stay in the body for long periods of time, but these are definitely not drugs.

    So with the Purification rundown, you have a dangerous solution (niacin overdoses and excessive amounts of hot sauna time) as an attempt to solve a problem that doesn’t actually exist, and which was known to science not to exist even by the primitive understanding of pharmacokinetics that existed 50+ years ago when Hubbard came up with this dangerous nonsense.

    A deadly cure to a problem that doesn’t exist.

    This is why.

    • ze moo

      Your second to the last line defines scientology completely.

      • stateofcircle

        Warning: rant ahead

        As a Nutritionist who does a lot of practical research of vitamins, minerals, herbs and other various supplements, nothing makes me more angry than Dr.Oz schilling for whatever supplement company is paying him the most that week. Many people, especially middle-of-the-country folk, regard him as some sort of medical authority, and take what he says as fully vetted medical fact, when in actuality a lot of the claims he passes off in dangerous generalities as medical facts about these supplements are based on nothing more than a short-term company-funded study that lacks most of the criteria of a credible research study. In this respect, he is no better than Hubbard, and uses his popularity and authority to trick people into buying things that can potentially harm them.

        Rant over.

        • coonellie

          Amen and rant on! It’s so indicative of our society that taking a pill is preferred over eating a healthy, well-balanced meal (that takes time to shop for, prepare, cook and present at table). Sigh…

        • sugarplumfairy

          I love Dr. Oz and I’ve never seen him recommend anything that wasn’t sound.. He’s an excellent physician..

        • sugarplumfairy

          And he is nothing, NOTHING, like lrh.. I work in a hospital where Dr. Oz’s father worked for years.. He and his son are hardworking, compassionate, highly competent clinicians.. Dr. Oz does not recommend what he can’t stand behind..

        • Leslie Stipe

          Completely Agree!!! There are times when Dr. Oz makes my work life an entire hell. When my patients start out with “I was watching Dr. Oz and he said…” I truly love my patients but in that moment, dear lord, I hate the world! And I’m just trying not to let it show on my face.

          I spent many, many good years in college studying physics and radiation (*brag alert* with honors – only female in my class to receive them) before I ever thought about the medical field. I am a geek at heart and I love every minute of it! Saying all that, I truly do not think Dr. Oz knows much about radiation or he would never recommend, for example, women to shield their thyroid during a mammogram because of long term effects. I could absolutely bore you to tears with details but I will spare you and just say…”Compton scatter” which is basic common knowledge to most except Dr. Oz.

          One of the reasons I started looking into $cientology and LRH was having read something about him being an expert in radiation and a nuclear physicist (which is what I always wanted to be as a kid). Needless to say, I wasn’t impressed and quickly concluded that “he be a fraud”.

          Speaking of x-rays, sort of, you would be amazed at what will show up on an x-ray like metal in the body. Gold shots (also referred to as gold salt shots) are a perfect example. The gold settles in lymph nodes and it is like the 4th of July on some images.

          My favorite x-ray story was my first job out of school and I was working in the ER of a 350 bed hospital. A man came in and all that was written down was “foreign object” so I immediately thought he had swallowed something. So freaking wrong and sadly, naïve as hell! Nope, he had something in him all right but not in his stomach. I came around the corner to see all the nurses gathered ’round like they found the great monolith from 2010 Space Odyssey. It was a vibrator used to “massage his prostate”. The ER doc I was working under gave me the best piece of advice on how to handle a situation like that. He told me when they start the sentence off with “I waited until the batteries went dead…” just pull up the stool and get comfortable because at least it will be entertaining! Btw, the vibrator guy was from 3 counties over and to this day I still remember his name. But HIPAA and I know I will never tell!

      • Peter

        I was tested for and proven to have 330% of the allowable amount of lead in my body. Probably due to lead based paints during my early years, working gas stations and cleaning our hands with lead based gasoline, riding a motorcycle for 25 years inhaling lead based fumes from cars, etc. My naturopath MD (both) recommended chelation therapy. Six months later I was retested and had zero lead in my body. It is not as efficacious on other heavy metals but for lead, Medicare will pay for the chelation.

        • Captain Howdy

          “My naturopath”

          Say no more.

        • Missionary Kid

          Let me guess, your blood was sent to a special lab. It’s a test that can be done by any lab, but he results from that special lab are somehow deemed to be more sensitive.

          Bullshit. They do the same thing for mercury. It’s a con. You feel better, but your wallet is a lot lighter, unnecessarily.

          Next time something like that’s done, go to a regular physician and have them take a blood sample and send it to a normal clinic. The results will be far different.

          • John P.

            The chemical process of chelation is often used for quack purposes among the woo-woo “alternative health” crowd. However, it turns out that about the only medically valid use of chelation therapy is to lower lead levels in the blood, and it is enthusiastically FDA approved for that.

            I don’t know how conservative the recommended lead exposure levels are relative to what is demonstrably harmful, so I don’t know if a lead level of 330% normal means you are basically “dead man walking” or if the concentrations allowed are so small that it isn’t really all that harmful. Today, asbestos exposure levels of absolute zero are mandated, but it seems unlikely that occasional exposures to small amounts of asbestos fibers are likely to be all that harmful. Similarly, if legal limits for Pb are extremely conservative, the naturopath may have embarked on a course of treatment to make money, but at least it was not harmful. It probably really did lower Peter’s serum Pb level to close to zero.

            While I am extremely cynical about “alternative medicine,” the treatment Peter received was responsible and medically appropriate for an elevated lead level. My cynicism of the naturopath would direct me to look for claims that he could undo the damage previously done by that elevated lead level, which is unlikely — particularly for neurological damage, which is what lead poisoning does really, really well.

            • Missionary Kid

              Amen.

              Here’s another way the toxic heavy metals scam is done: http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Tests/urine_toxic.html

              My friggin oldest sister had all of her mercury amalgams removed because there was supposedly mercury in her blood.

              What set off the alarm bells for me was that her blood was sent off to some lab 1000 miles away, and then she was sent to a dentist who specialized in removing mercury fillings.

              I then went online and looked at the studies of mercury levels in the mouth with a broken filling (worst case). The exposure was brief, and the amount ingested low, even then.

              My sister also sent me a couple of books entitled, as I recall, The Cure for All Disease and The Cure for All Cancer by this quack lady who, after the U.S. authorities closed her “clinic” down, went to Mexico, where eventually the Mexican authorities raided her clinic there. Now, she sells books out of a P.O. Box somewhere close to the border in the U.S. she can’t be prosecuted for giving “information.”

              A good place to look up stuff like that is Quackwatch. Unfortunately, they don’t get into $cientology, probably because they’ve been sued, and it was too much. It does refer to Paulette Cooper.

          • Peter

            I was not tested by any scn based organization. It was done privately by a registered MD/NaturopathMD. This post was in response to a negative post re chelation therapy. It works especially well for lead and is approved, for that purpose, by the FDA and Medicare. It does not work nearly so well for other heavy metals, as stated.

    • Observer

      Hubbard was such an abject IDIOT.

      • RMycroft
        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          The truth is funnier than fiction. thanks for this reminder

      • Observer

        Oh dear, someone doesn’t like hearing the truth about Mankind’s Greatest Friend. Score one for me!

        • 0tessa

          I gave you an upvote to compensate for it.

          • Peter

            Looks like he has his finger up his nose!!! ROFL

            • Observer

              He does. I put it there. And I had a lot of fun doing it.

            • richelieu jr

              You can’t pick your friends.. But you CAN pick your enemies’ noses!

        • Missionary Kid

          But he’s only keeping his brains from running out through one nostril. That can’t be good.

    • Captain Howdy

      Hey..Haight Ashbury Free Clinic! I got my first glove up the but and glass tube down the you know what, there. Fond memories.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Assume the position had a whole other meaning back then…couldn’t resist.

        [IMG]http://i44.tinypic.com/2rdaoee.jpg[/IMG]

    • Jgg2012

      Yes, when you sweat, over 90% of that is water. Also a little salt, and some minerals–none of these things are “highly toxic” and thus can be stored in your body indefinitely.

    • Poison Ivy

      “The small number of toxins that aren’t metabolized by the body typically include heavy metals, which aren’t part of any metabolic pathways, and which are too big to be metabolized by the kidneys or liver, and which end up serving as catalysts for carcinogenic reactions.”

      You’ll find heavy metals mixed in with food fed to livestock, which is why you shouldn’t eat too much bacon. One would probably be wise to avoid factory farmed meats in general.

      • stanrogers

        I would like to point out that, given any reasonable definition of the three words in question, there is no such thing as “too much bacon”.

    • Exterrier

      Aha, I get it. I had nice results, but had never done drugs. It seemed to handle some industrial toxins I had absorbed, and I did observe the moving strap mark phenomenon occur with the women there, and seemed to remove what he called the effects of radiation with the niacin. Maybe. I sure felt better afterwards. Like Imsaid elsewhere, we had a lot of burly post Chernobyl Russians around at that time. Oddly most of my benefits could be chalked up to some peripheral things going on in life that sitting in a hot box for 4 or 5 hours a night provided a nice escape from.

      • Missionary Kid

        A. Niacin doesn’t do shit about radiation. B. Neither does it do anything about heavy metals.
        Any benefits you had were psychological.

        • Exterrier

          Any research on that to refer? Seriously. I am looking back to my experience there in 93 or 94, and still curious about the strap marks that showed up during some niacin flushes gals had. I don’t claim to know what happened. But I did observe it. I will google up niacin effects in the meantime. I did not mention heavy metals…must have been another post, or one of blubbard’s wild claims to be found elsewhere on the blog.
          Interestingly, Mish, the church did not even give their own detox program to the poor Volunteer Ministers they sent to ground zero, and I was told that many of them sickened and died. Either they were too cheap to help their own,mor they did not believe in it.

          • Missionary Kid

            I was referring to industrial toxins. I assumed that meant heavy metals, because biological

            toxins would fall under what John P. was referring to.

            Niacin flushes are just that. It means that the skin shows a flush. It has nothing to do with flushing toxins out of your system.

            Where marks show up when the skin is flushed could be linked to all sorts of reasons: laying down on the boards you sat on in the sauna, something you leaned against, exposure to sunlight, or even the clothes you’d worn earlier in the day.

            What you were taught was that the marks were a sign of some past behavior. LRH usually assigned a 1:1 relationship to everything, so there had to be some esoteric cause for the strap marks, according to the dogma.

            Getting into a sauna wouldn’t help asbestos-filled lungs or breathing contaminated air. The damage was done to the cells in the body from long term exposure, and the only way to prevent the damage would be to protect oneself from the toxins.

            I doubt if the $cions who worked at ground zero were as affected as the first responders who waded into the contaminated air and environment. “Many sickened and died” to me, sounds like the rumor mill operating overtime. Like everything else, the story, while it is damaging to the reputation of Co$, it still is telling everyone how effective the Purif is.

            It sounds like an Indie story, which affirms LRHs fake tech while disparaging the present Co$.

            • Exterrier

              Thanks, MK. Maybe re read my response. Not the Indie propaganda you interpret it as. This was told to me by a very disappointed True Believer I know, or knew, who was shocked that the “church” would be so callous as to not help their own, who were sent there to promote their wares. And she told me the sad tale quite a few years back, before we’d ever heard of Indies. I believe these people got sick and died the way she said. Also, The relative courage and risks of firemen as opposed to Red Cross and other workers who came later, is not the issue. Many residents pitched in in various ways, and where told by their trusty Federal government that there were no risks…..people looking for missing relatives, passing out fliers, and just helping out. And then there were those yellow shirted “ministers” there with their pop up tents and nerve assists or touch assists. I’m just saying as someone who was still in at the time, that if the “church” believed so highly in their technology, why did they not help their own, instead of having Cruise and Travolta make a show of offering the purification to firemen?

            • Missionary Kid

              My point was not to disparage anyone’s courage, but to speak to my doubt that “Many sickened and died.” I took that to mean that there was a high percentage.

              Even among the first responders who were in the thick of things, relative to the total number of people who were exposed, it looks to me like there have not been that many deaths. There have been a large number of people who have had a reduction in pulmonary function. What the percentage is, I don’t know.

              It sounds like the woman who told you the tale was just starting to wake up to the fact that the Co$ is, at heart, cheap and self-serving. I think that assessment of the church either being cheap or not believing in the tech was right. The former is probably the dominant reason.

              The Co$ doesn’t take care of its own. If they get sick, it’s because of some “crime” of this life or a past one. It’s always your fault.

              I shouldn’t have answered above, because I got home tired,and I’m sleepy.

              Your right that the Indie movement really didn’t get going until much later.

              Good night. If there’s something more I can think of in the morning, I’ll add it.

            • Exterrier

              All good. This lady, (the one with the ground zero tale), is in so deep, and has given up so much, that I doubt she would live through the discovery that it has been fraud. Someone pointed out once, as I recall, that at least the Indie movement is a way station for the disillusioned, that prevents them from committing suicide while they blame Davey and still revere Ron. Scn is at the core of her world, as with so many others, and she would be incapable of just dropping it.
              Perhaps if people can find an Indie group without PTS/SP tech and KSW, they will unlock their computers a bit, and then find Gerry Armstrong and Lermanet and such, and some great books we all know of, and slowly catch on to the real LRH at a pace they can deal with psychologically. Really, this organization and its lies represent the only hope in their fearful world. Frightening.

            • Missionary Kid

              I finally got some sleep.

              I’ve said that the Indies can provide a way station, but I’ve never thought that someone might commit suicide at the revelation of the corruption at the heart of LRH’s con.

              You’ve made me realize that it might be a sad possibility. I guess that I’m hopeful that people have too much of an instinct for self-preservation to go that far.

              The sad part is that because Co$ does such a thorough job of isolating members from the rest of the world that they might feel they have no place to turn because their whole world is the Co$.

              Yes, it is frightening.

            • Lady Squash

              I had not heard of this particular abuse. But it says to me that the Church a) doesn’t care and b) doesn’t really believe in their own BS.

            • Lady Squash

              Tom Cruise is a true believer in all things SCN including the Purif. He sponsored or somehow got New York to build a Purif for the first responders. Does anyone know what kind of results they have gotten? Any long term follow-up? Anything?

            • Missionary Kid

              My feeling is that whatever happened, Co$ would call it a win.

    • Lady Squash

      I have done 3 purifs. The first was the pilot called the “sweat program”. Not sure how it happened that I did it another two times, but that’s not the point. The point is that if the Purif really rids the body of drugs, then why wouldn’t someone who had done a Purif be allowed to join the Sea Org. I am referring to the ban on joining the Sea Org if you have done LSD. I can only conclude that LRH didn’t believe his own BS. And simply needed to have an explanation as to why someone in the Sea Org would trip up. The illogic is astounding.

  • jensting

    The price of the putrification runover can be higher.

    The head of the Lyon branch of the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology, J-J M as we’re required to call him by French law (don’t get me started), convinced a new-ish recruit Patrice VIC that Mr VIC’s eternity depended critically on paying for the putrification runover. The only problem was that Mr VIC did not have the money. After some more “high pressure sales tacti

    • 0tessa

      Vive la France! A bas Scientologie!

      • jensting

        une seule solution: la dissolution!

        • Missionary Kid

          Amen.

      • Captain Howdy
        • John P.

          I always thought that version was so … classic. You know, boring and stuffy. In need of updating. I like this updated, contemporary version a bit better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrfIoWiQS24

          • Captain Howdy

            “Hello Muddah, Hello Fadduh’ was one of my favorites when I was a wee weed.

            • noseinabk

              Thank you for the reminder Howdy. Gotta play that for the kids.

            • ParticleMom

              I loved that record as a kid!

          • Exterrier

            Priceless!

        • richelieu jr

          I am French, and still when i hear it I start to hum ‘Love is all you Need’ after the first horns bit..

          You may not know this, but it has about a million verses and they are long and very bloody indeed. Wading knee deep in the blood of the enemy,t hat sort of thing…

          Good times.

          PS: DO NOT actually start singing the Beatles’ song in the middle of La Marseillaise in Jr High School or you WILL be kicked out of class and your parents called to find out why you hate France. (Don’t ask me how I know this.)

  • stateofcircle

    With the ever growing “dissemination” of anti-Scientology information, as well as the large and also ever growing amount of ex-Scientologists, the time is ripe for a University or some Doctors to conduct a study of the long-term effects of the Putrification Rundown. As many here and elsewhere have stated, the negative impacts of the procedure often don’t materialize until years later. There are certainly an abundance of former participants in the rundown who would gladly participate. I don’t know if there is anything we critics can do to get a University or research Doctors interested, maybe sending letters to research departments or something, but with everything going on with Narconon now, this really would be the perfect time.

    • Poison Ivy

      What are the negative impacts that materialize years later? Liver damage?

    • John P.

      Such a study will never happen. Given what is already conclusively understood of the dangers of components of the Purification Rundown (niacin and excessive saunas), no Human Subjects committee overseeing any sort of clinical research would permit such a study that involves a purification rundown to take place. And that’s a fatal problem.

      You can’t just start in the middle of things by following people who have had the purification rundown years before because you can’t isolate the outcomes (i.e., higher cancer rates, heart attack, brain turning to mush, etc) from other stuff that happened in their lives that you didn’t document precisely when it was happening (smoking, drug use, bad diet, genetics, etc). And given that the Purif varies in length and intensity for seemingly random factors (you manage to convince somebody with no medical training that you’re all cleared out and ready to go on), you would never have accurate data that would allow you to relate amount of niacin consumed or sauna time in the Purif to outcomes.

      So you would never be able to prove that the damage that occurred was caused by the Purif. You would at best be able to establish a correlation but you wouldn’t conclusively be able to isolate the Purif as the cause of premature death or other negative health outcomes. By comparison, it’s easy to do a study that proves that a staggeringly high percentage of elderly patients who fall and shatter their hips will die within a year because of their injuries, since you can start a new patient in the study when they show up in the ambulance, and it’s easy to follow them longitudinally after that.

      Confusing correlation with causation is a major mistake that often happens in science, so it’s important to design an experiment where you can prove causation not merely correlation.

      • stateofcircle

        Alright then. Minus one for me.
        But wouldn’t some sort of pattern emerge amongst a group of people who’ve undergone the rundown versus a group who did not, regardless of other factors?

        • John P.

          I am sorry to jump on this perhaps a bit harder than I might otherwise have done, but I have been hip deep in helping the biotech guys at Global Capitalism HQ reviewing a shitload of papers from the ASCO (American Society for Clinical Oncology) conference that concluded a week ago. That’s the major annual event where blockbuster cancer-related research gets unveiled, and the place is crawling with Wall Street types looking for the next wonder drug. I have been a lot more cynical about questionable medical studies than usual, since I am hip deep in papers some of which are quite bad, pushing questionable drugs and expensive treatment regimens of dubious incremental efficacy. I am a little cranky given how much manure I’m being forced to search through hoping to find a pony that nobody else has found yet.

          The point is to keep focused on what is likely to pay off best: instead of spending decades trying to prove retroactively that the Purif was bad for people — existing unrelated science is already pretty compelling that this would be the case — focus on the fraud that is now coming to light. I’d bet on insurance fraud investigators to crush Narconon before a proper CDC study could even get funded.

          Doing a 30-year longitudinal study on health outcomes relating to heart disease is a pretty good idea given that it is the #1 killer in the US (600,000+ deaths per year not including stroke and related issues) but Purif probably contributes to at most 500 deaths per year (and is probably not the principal direct cause of death in most of those but merely a contributing factor). Yes, that is 500 deaths too many, but a big study doesn’t make much sense.

          So complicated science is not the way to kill Narconon; recent events are showing us a much easier way. All we have to do is keep making sure they have an abundant supply of gasoline at hand to pour on the fire they’re lighting themselves.

          • Jgg2012

            Which reminds me–whatever happened to Jessica Feshbach, or, for that matter, Tommy Davis?

          • stateofcircle

            Thank you for your very informative replies, John. Your points are definitely valid, and I agree with you. I guess the reason why I would like to see some sort of study done, regardless of how impossible it may be, it twofold: One, while there is overwhelming medical evidence that outright refutes nearly all of the claims made by the rundown, as far as I know there has been no publicly recognized cases of severe illness of death directly attributed to the rundown (to be clear, in no way do I want to see anyone dead or suffering and hope it never happens). So, as toxic as the niacin doses are, Scientologists can argue the fact that, if they’re so toxic, why has no one suffered or dies because of niacin toxicity (again, no argument from me about the fact that it is absolutely toxic and horrible for a person). Second, the amount of Scientologists that have been diagnosed and have died of cancer is pretty staggering. I’m sure it’s not solely attributable to the rundown, but a combination of factors such as working conditions, exposure to toxins such as asbestos and human excrement, extreme stress and others. Of course I realize how incredibly difficult it would be to execute a credible study, but it is still something I think would be valuable and important, not to mention very interesting. Even if some sort of large survey was conducted, at least it could shed a little more light on these things, and add a lot more fuel to the fire. And maybe even help people who have been affected as well as deterring more people away from Scientology.

        • McLovin_1982

          Yes they have all reported that they repeatedly have to spray paint the toilet…. nuf said.

      • Missionary Kid

        That’s damn well put. Of course, LRH or DM would just make up numbers and call it science.

  • PreferToBeAnon2

    Margaret over at Rinder’s is espousing the virtues and medical soundness of the Purif in a few posts. After seeing the Feshbach pod portrait and now this… it’s time for me to step away from the puter and do something that I will regret later.

    • Observer

      What, you don’t already regret enough today?

    • SFFrog

      She’s becoming the Scientology equivalent of a one-person “Institute for Creation Research”, attempting to obscure well-established facts with a thin veneer of twaddle just plausible enough to convince people with a well-established confirmation bias.

      • Espiando

        My bad. I’m afraid it was my post that caused that silly woman to shoot her mouth off. She’s the biggest Hubbard apologist out there. She even thinks she has evidence to prove that Hubtard was a Sooper-Sekrit Sooper Spai during WWII. She’s nuts.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Yes, and a certain former doctor’s wife was recently writing about how Hubbard’s tech could help cure cancer. I rest my case.

  • Jgg2012

    Q. How do you feed squirrels?

    • Missionary Kid

      With Nuts, like $cions

      • Jgg2012

        I was going to say by frying clams, but I like your answer better.

        • Missionary Kid

          I like yours just as well.

  • dbloch7986

    I tend to attribute the euphoric reactions from the pruif to dehydration and overdoses of vitamins.I remember a lot of second hand stories of people being cured of heroin addictions and all that BS, but I’ve never met anyone who has claimed that personally.

    Additionally I know of at least one person who said that one time he spilled gasoline on himself and supposedly the gasoline came out of him during his purif. In fact, it was his brother that had the gasoline spilled on him. Memory can be a tricky thing.

    • coonellie

      Reminds me of what just happened last week at Casa Coonellie…sort of off-topic, but still dealing with Vit. B. and why ANY vitamin in doses not recommended by a qualified physician is dangerous (and brought on by your “euphoric reactions” comment).

      Baby Coonellie (a young teen) is a vegan. She takes one of my B-12 supplements every week (at the suggestion of our MD). Well, Mama Coonellie and the MD weren’t as smart as the bottle instructions and the weekly intake became two to three a day.

      Long story short…hallucinations began to occur after about four days. Baby was terrified. After calming Baby down and methodically going through any changes in routine, the culprit was found. It took two days for the effects to wear off. I told Baby it was probably cheaper than LSD. Baby wasn’t amused ;).

      • stateofcircle

        Do you have baby cooneelie see a nutritionist? I work with some vegans and I also deal with the vitamin b conundrums a lot, so if something like this ever happens again and you don’t think it’s serious enough for the doctor, feel free to send me an email stateofcircle AT gmail.

        • coonellie

          Thanks for the offer! I’ll keep your email address. My parents are both vegans and they regularly go to a nutritionist and pass on the info, but we’ve not been to one since Baby Coonellie started this lifestyle change two years ago. Just the MD. Regular blood work, etc.

  • mook
    • PreferToBeAnon2

      Thanks for posting about this… I had no idea they were doing that. I have taken it upon myself to put this in front of the right Washington people. This truly is the bottom of the bottom.

    • FistOfXenu

      Just another way the bastards have blood on their hands.

    • stateofcircle

      How can these people live with themselves? I’m just grateful that that thread helped someone stay from the AVA scam. And while it was only one family, it makes me really happy that we in the critic community can have a positive impact through our commenting on boards and blogs like these and inform people on the scammy ways of L. Con Blubbard’s many rackets and hopefully help them to not get screwed.

    • aquaclara

      Another scam. So sad that there are people with zero morals who feel it is ok to prey on good people.

      • RMycroft

        I guess there wasn’t enough money in spamming as eeemedia. (Same person, same address.)

  • Cymboli

    Littlenecks are good but I prefer softshell clams. Of course this is probably due to the fact that I am from Massachusetts :)

    • ze moo

      Littlenecks, cherrystone, steamers, I like all clams.

      • Sherbet

        I only eat them fried, with bellies, unless they’re sandy. Then, ugh.

        • Observer

          Ugh, I can’t stand shellfish … *turns greenish*

          • Sherbet

            Don’t turn green. I eat fried clams only about every 5 years, when I really have a craving for them. Other than that, I don’t even touch lobster. Or crab. Yuck.

            • Espiando

              Strangely enough, lobster and crab are the only seafoods I will touch (along with shrimp). And I’m the food safety expert.

      • SP ‘Onage

        How bout’ the hugh wiener clam, Gooey Duck (Geoduck) have you eaten one of those? It looks AWFUL, but some people think they’re delicious.

      • noseinabk

        ooohhh cherrystone steamers? Cheriton Va?
        If so, I gotta say no to the clams and YES to the crabs!

    • Bella Legosi

      I am still of the belief that the only clam one should eat……..doesn’t come from the ocean

      • McLovin_1982

        ah yes…. the revered bearded clam :-)

        • FistOfXenu

          “revered”. ;)

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        There you go, catapulting yourself right back to the top of the Bunker crush list.

  • aquaclara

    Horrifying. Absolutely horrifying. And to think that the cult charges a victim for this “practice.”
    Sounds quite like practicing medicine without a license…. which is illegal.

    It’s been a whole week without Eric/Oreo’s favorite saying….methinks we are OVERDUE!

    (sing along, to the tune of the Mickey Mouse Club today….)

    “F—-,U—–,C—-,”

    “K—–, E—–,Y—-…,”

    “D.A.V.E.Y.”

    Why?

    Because we hate this.

  • piper

    Has anyone done an Indian Sweats? I’ve seen people have remarkable changes in just doing it once or twice. Many experience an exorcism type effect, too. The donation is $20-$40 usually, and is almost always life changing. Just sayin’.

    • jensting

      Who knows? What is certain is that the medical quackery practised without a license by the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology is potentially life-ENDING with its huge dosis of vitamins. Plus. the Co$ always couples it with going off prescription medicine (and going off suddenly) which has been found to lead to (not less than one) terrifying death which was found to be the sole responsibility of said criminal organisation. http://infinitecomplacency.blogspot.com/search/label/Jocelyne%20Dorfmann

      But, hey! Thanks for asking!

      • Sherbet

        I’m picturing Oscar’s sweat lodge in the new Arrested Development episodes. With cold lemonade going for thousands of dollars a glass, cos should sit up and take notice. “Purif Rundown…Now With Ice-Cold Lemonade!”

        • 1subgenius

          I love it. This is the kind of thinking that made America great.
          The sauna is free, but a cool drink costs thousands.

      • Sherbet

        That’s a chilling article, jensting. Tory C is one of the lucky ones.

      • ze moo

        “The Medical Officer in the Sea Org
        may discontinue a drug at any point regardless of medical
        prescriptions as he is in a position to observe assist and processing
        results the medical doctor may not be aware are occurring.

        L. Ron
        Hubbard, “The role of the Medical Officer” October 3, 1970.”

        Lroons take on epilepsy are even more dangerous.

        “Early on, he seemed to suggest that one
        cause of epileptic seizures was the effect of particularly persistent
        “engrams” – his term for the negative mental charges his
        Dianetics system was supposed to clear away.”

        Once upon a time, he said thetans had
        acted as “guardians of a wood, or something”, protecting the
        animals in the area.

        “So if one of those primitive cavemen
        tried to hunt and kill such animals, the thetan would punish him
        “…by throwing a good heavy electronic beam at him, ka-bap!

        “…and the thing goes into
        contortions and epileptic form seizures and a few other things, and
        it’s very uncomfortable.”

    • aquaclara
      • dbloch7986

        Same type of person, same type of cult, different name.

      • grundoon

        Thanks for the link… James Arthur Ray was found guilty of three counts of negligent homicide. More than 50 people participated in the October 2009 sweat lodge that was meant to be the highlight of Ray’s five-day “Spiritual Warrior” seminar near Sedona. Three people died following the sauna-like ceremony meant to provide spiritual cleansing. Eighteen were hospitalized, while several others were given water to cool down at the scene.

  • Michael Leonard Tilse

    Love the Dr. StrangeLove reference!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Dr StrangeBrew or: How I Learned to Stop Vomiting and Love the GukBomb. heh

    • Bella Legosi

      Oh I love Gen. Ripper!

      Dr. Strangelove really is one of the funniest movies ever. I still think Arsenic and Old Lace and Life of Brian are the trifecta of hilarity!

      • Captain Howdy

        Check out “The Ruling Class and “The Loved One”. And “Happiness” if you’re made of sterner stuff.

        • Bella Legosi

          Thank you!

  • Bella Legosi

    When I told my ex Dave about the Purif Rundown and the use of niacin, he claimed that niacin flushed the system, but also acted as a masking agent with drugs. He told me that niacin helps with detoxification, but didn’t completely flush the system out of the toxins, that many could still be in your system, but the niacin would dilute or mask the residual toxins. Is this true. And if so, is that why the PR utilizes hours of sauna treatments so that you sweat the toxins out?

    This process isn’t new and sweatboxing has been around for a lot longer then Hubbard thought up PR. To say that this helps with drug addiction really pisses me off. It is the shortcut thinking that I have come to really hate about this “church”. They focus on the immediate results and instant gratification of it all, but when it comes to actually “ridding” one of addiction, they know not what they claim. If they did, there would be no less then 4 people still alive in Oklahoma.

    • coonellie

      Hi Bella,

      John P gave an excellent response to your question. Scroll way down and you’ll see it. Debunks the whole niacin flushes the toxins out/masks them, etc. argument.

    • Sherbet

      Yesterday, I had the show “Katie” on while doing stuff around the house, so I wasn’t paying a whole lot of attention to it. It was about detox and staying drug free, apparently. And up pipes a guy in the audience from, I believe, Passages, who quoted terrible success rates with 12-Step groups, and, of course, steller success rates with Passages. And Katie said something tsk-tsking about the low success of the former, but nothing about the over-inflated claims of the latter. Anyway, I’m sorry I didn’t get the facts and can’t swear that it was Passages at all, but it reminded me of narCON with their 75% and up success claims. I can’t wait until Passages disappears, or the guy who says “I should know…I used to be an addict. Now I’m not.” is caught huffing glue in the back of a convenience story. I know that’s mean, but Passages is an overpriced excuse for a health spa, and it promises what it can’t deliver to people who are desperate. Off topic, I know.

      • 1subgenius

        Yeah, nobody calls anyone on their shit.
        Easy enough to do with a couple questions.

      • ze moo

        Passages and their tv ads and book(s) are just people taking one from the NarCONon playbook. Which was taken from quack medical ads that have always run in the US. Which were taken from folklore based medicine that is now called ‘snake oil medicine’. Teddy Roosevelt eventually set up the FDA in response to snake oil and food borne diseases.

        I didn’t know there was a cure for the banjo, now I know there is a salve for it.

        • 1subgenius

          Teddy was a helluva guy.

          • ze moo

            He was very much ahead of his time. He saw there had to be limits on unbridled capitalism and he broke up the great monopolies of his time. We could use that now.

            • 1subgenius

              I was going to post something similar.

              The period was the zenith of unbridled laissez faire capitalism, and he saw the need for limits. His national parks plan was also brilliant and ahead of its time.

              (inb4thebadsideofteddy)

              Helluva guy. Gave a speech after being shot. .

              “Theodore Roosevelt’s opening line was hardly remarkable for a presidential campaign speech: “Friends, I shall ask you to be as quiet as possible.” His second line, however, was a bombshell.

              “I don’t know whether you fully understand that I have just been shot.”

              Clearly, Roosevelt had buried the lede. The horrified audience in the Milwaukee Auditorium on October 14, 1912, gasped as the former president unbuttoned his vest to reveal his bloodstained shirt. “It takes more than that to kill a bull moose,” the wounded candidate assured them. He reached into his coat pocket and pulled out a bullet-riddled, 50-page speech. Holding up his prepared remarks, which had two big holes blown through each page, Roosevelt continued. “Fortunately I had my manuscript, so you see I was going to make a long speech, and there is a bullet—there is where the bullet went through—and it probably saved me from it going into my heart. The bullet is in me now, so that I cannot make a very long speech, but I will try my best.””

              http://www.history.com/news/shot-in-the-chest-100-years-ago-teddy-roosevelt-kept-on-talking

        • Sherbet

          Uh-oh. Don’t tell Steve Martin. I don’t think he wants to be cured of his banjo affliction.

        • Exterrier

          The only cure for Banjo is more Banjo. “The way out is the way through”, ya know.

      • Captain Howdy

        Katie is even more shallow than Oprah and first time I saw an ad for Passages it made me think of celebrity detox meets narconon. In other words it made wanna ROLF! Cancer Centers of America seems really sketchy to me also. The small print says they use natuorpathic and spiritual treatments as well as conventional ones.

        • Sherbet

          It makes me sick when scams prey on desperate people. Somebody like the ol’ Fertile Feshbachs — let them waste time and money on scamatology. But someone with an addiction or illness, or who has a child with an addiction and is grasping at straws — they need only compassion and resources, not expensive and useless fakery.

        • sugarplumfairy

          Oprah!!! Yay!!!

      • Bella Legosi

        Have you seen the Addiction Centers of America commercials? When my mom and I saw them we honestly wondered if they were not some NarCONon 2.0. So, I checked out their website and was almost convinced, until I came across stuff that said you see a psychiatrist. But they advertise 95% success rates, if you are not clean you receive free time in the rehab, and “financing” is available. Check them out, they do sound like the quackery that NarCONon is and I wouldn’t be surprised if this group of rehabs didn’t take a few notes from NarCONon!

        • RMycroft

          There was an addiction organization in Ontario that sure looked like Narconon: sauna, problems with sex and drugs on site, people wanting their money back, burning the property owners on rent, “former” addicts hired as staff, etc. It turned out to be some unconnected vaguely Christian based scam.

          It seems to have been some kind of scum parallel evolution.

        • Sherbet

          You’re right, Bella.

    • John P.

      1.) Drug residues do not remain in the body after a certain amount of time. They burn off completely after intervals which can be precisely modeled using well established pharmacokinetic statistical techniques. See my long comment towards the bottom of the comments today.

      2.) Certain toxic compounds (not drugs; typically heavy metals) remain in the body for relatively long periods of time, wreaking damage. There is absolutely no reason to believe that niacin can flush anything out of the body that the renal system and the liver can’t flush out on their own. It is ludicrous, for instance, to believe that niacin can flush radon gas out of the lungs.

      3.) The only reason people think niacin does anything is the “niacin flush,” which corresponds to subcutaneous vasodilation (i.e., skin gets warm and flushed), and that is a very different meaning of the term from flushing “toxins” out of your system. It’s like how you get a mild fever after certain childhood vaccinations as your body produces antibodies — people remember that and think that because their skin feels warm it must be doing something good.

      4.) Sauna treatments similarly produce mild euphoria making suggestible people think something beneficial must be happening other than the direct effects of the sauna. To understand why this is bullshit, ask any marathon runner who has blown out their electrolytes on a hot day and collapsed due to heat stroke — if they even remember it when they come to in the ER, the sensations of nearly dying from electrolyte imbalance can actually be fairly pleasant, sensations far different from the damage that’s actually occurring. Excessive sauna makes you sweat out electrolytes producing a mild euphoria as your osmotic balance in your cells gets out of whack and you basically suffocate in ultra slow motion. What fun!

      It is merely fraud to sell people on harmless treatments that “cleanse” the body of toxins that aren’t actually there. It is murder to use the particularly dangerous techniques below to solve a problem that doesn’t exist. Either excessive sauna or niacin taken by themselves can be fatal; it is reckless in the extreme to believe that one can finish the job of detoxification that the other started.

      • PreferToBeAnon2

        As always, beautifully said. Suggestion: how about reposting this over at Rinder’s? I just read a post about Naroconon that has my stomach doing a break dance in fast forward: http://www.mikerindersblog.org/ias-narconon-claims-fact-check/#comment-6045

        “It doesn’t matter if the technical science is wrong on drug
        residues frankly. What does matter is does the PC get the requisite
        spiritual resurgence/boost from the RD.

        Is the PC more able to confront the spiritual aspects of auditing
        targeting drugs afterwards? Do PCs that have done the RD audit more
        quickly to Clear compared with a group that did not have this RD?

        These are the metrics that should be used to evaluate the program.
        Nitpicking over science misses the point that this is a spiritual RD,
        not a physical one.”

        Ummm… how do you even begin to get through to a person who has this viewpoint?

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          “It doesn’t matter if the technical science is wrong”

          It Doesn’t Matter is what is wrong.

          Scientology is dangerous precisely because of the state of mind of those who practice it, even on their own children.

        • stateofcircle

          Science is so silly!

        • Captain Howdy

          And proof of the spirtual benefits are measured using what? Kirlian photography?

        • FistOfXenu

          “how do you even begin to get through to a person who has this viewpoint?”

          You get him onto a REAL drug rehab program and get him completely clean and then you make sure he can’t get ahold of any more hallucinogenics. Have him checked out for psychosis. If he’s not batshit insane once he’s off drugs, he’ll start living in the real world again and you start teaching him science 101.

          • PreferToBeAnon2

            I meant, how do you get through to a person who has the viewpoint of the person I was quoting–that science is a “nitpicking” thing. I wasn’t asking how to get through to a drug addict…

            • FistOfXenu

              Sorry PTBA. I was riffing on the idea that the guy that said it also drinks the clam aid and also is in NarCONon dropping acid to take the edge off the shitty reality known as Ron’s rehab. I’m not gonna be the guy that explains a joke that tanked but maybe that’s enough of a clue if it still matters.

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              fox… i was so busy ranting i couldn’t see the riffing!

            • FistOfXenu

              No problem. I was so busy riffing I stepped on your rant.

        • grundoon

          David Carradine transcended the physical through the spiritual practice of autoerotic asphyxiation. James Arthur Ray was convicted of negligent homicide after his “sauna-like ceremony meant to provide spiritual cleansing” killed three seekers. Sometimes the physical consequences of so-called “spiritual” practices can be kind of important.

          • PreferToBeAnon2

            yeah…. death, liver damage, and uncontrolled aggression are kinda important there.

        • John P.

          I think you just walk away. This is tantamount to the judge saying in court, “the technical evidence of guilt doesn’t matter; what matters is what we feel really happened.” The “technical science” and the way of thinking that confers is all that stands between us and the medieval world.

          Fortunately, we’re not in this game to convert the true believers. Far more important to make sure the innocent don’t get caught in the machinery of misery.

          • PreferToBeAnon2

            Quite true. But I keep hoping that maybe a little bit of sun will peek through the fog. That is what fascinates me about the ex stories: often, it is just a message on a placard seen for a moment, a sentence in an email, or a snippet of an article that can cause the first crack of mindshift.

          • noseinabk

            ^^THIS^^

      • Truthiwant

        Just one thing to add to your assessment.

        So many people that went on the Purification Rundown went “Over Run” which means that they had gone on with the saunas more than they were needed. Apart from the fact that the whole thing is complete gibberish, it shows that the C/S, which means Case Superviror or the person that is meant to be controlling and monitoring the whole cycle, has no idea whatsoever regarding when enough is enough.

        The real “End Phenomena” of the Purification Rundown is identical to any Auditing cycle. In other words, the PC (Pre-Clear) should come up with some wonderful “success story” like “I feel that my body has rid itself of all the abuse it has received over the last million years”. At that point, the C/S would automatically stop the rundown because it is an acceptable “End Phenomena”. However, very few people realize this, because it is one of the first actions in Scientology and they have not yet been completely indoctrinated.
        The Purification Rundown has nothing to do with scientific cleansing of the body. It is a brain washing method of indoctrination to get a person to believe he has rid himself of millions of years of toxins.

        • Captain Howdy

          Very endformative comment TIW.

          • Truthiwant

            Hubbard knew that the medical profession would never accept his Purification Programme. However Hubbard also knew he could convince enough people to believe in it based on the following that he had.
            Many people that started the Purification Rundown thought of it as a spiritual way of ridding oneself of toxins, based on scientific proof from their great leader, Hubbard. If LRH said it, then it must be true.
            It very rarely worked and had all sorts of problems, mostly physical, because it is potentially dangerous. Saunas, vitamins and niacin can have dangerous medical effects on the body. To Hubbard, it was a form of “practical” therapy” where, with the use of niacin, you could actually see something happening to the body. I think he underestimated the problems it could incur on certain people but it sounded good to start the world of Scientology with a “Physical Cleansing” of the body.

            • Captain Howdy

              I’ve detoxed in house and at home too many times to want to remember. Detoxing cold turkey from certain drugs is very dangerous. I would still recommend detoxing at home with the help of some sort of benzo instead of going to a narconon.

              Narconon is cold turkey in an insane asylum and the inmates are running the asylum.

      • Exterrier

        Very informative post. I actually observed your point 6. happen several times to people on the sauna purification. One guy crawled under the benches one day when his recreational drugs from years back ran through his system. We had to grab his ankles and drag him out. He was fine and rational on all other days but that one. There were other, less dramatic examples of this. This is just an observation of what I saw. He claimed it was the drugs, and that he felt the same as when he was on them. Dunno…..

        • Artoo45

          You most likely saw what looked like a flashback. The poor guy might have been suffering from heat stroke or just being dramatic. There is no known biological mechanism for drugs to stay in your system unmetabolized for years, John P’s post is very accurate.

          • Exterrier

            Makes sense if the drugs were all consumed, as John P’s post explains. My “wins” were not drug related. Maybe that guy was totally mineral depleted…..or had done his drugs that same day, ha. I never drank the Cal Mag, btw, (or the Kool Aid).

            • EnthralledObserver

              If I may be so bold – what were your ‘wins’ about. And how did the sauna, Niacin experience have anything to do with them? Just so I understand…

            • Exterrier

              Good questions. I have no idea at all if niacin had anything to do with it. And I had zero drug issues to cure. Personally, I did seem to detox from some industrial chemicals from the printing trade that might legitimately been causing serious brain fog and depression. The fitness workout, and the camaraderie with a whole bunch of fellow musicians who arrived, and the sweat lodge cleanse effect all helped. And as another commenter wisely stated, I was at a point in life with a divorce and overwork, where the change of environment, and having a place to be every night was just the thing for me. Nothing much to do with niacin, or the cal mag I did not even drink.
              My wins were that my head cleared, and a certain health and optimism returned. It was still a relatively cheap program at the time, and I was not actually in the church when I did it, by the way. At that point in y life it was a game changer of sorts. Not necessarily because of Flubbards medical wisdom, I am now seeing, so much as my own circumstances, and general benefits of exercise and sweat. And hey, I lost weight and got fit.
              I did not see others have quite the same experience I had. It was quite across the board. I could write a book about what went on, and even celeb stories…it was most entertaining, which can be one of the attractions of Scientology, unless you are sadly born into it. I would never recommend the program now, because I think the warnings about liver damage from the niacin should be taken seriously. I can’t believe they put kids on this!
              I have had greater results physically in recent years by a weeks visit to an organic food and wheat grass and fitness retreat in San Diego, that saved me five weeks of sweating and did not flood me with synthetic vitamins and niacin. Hmmmm… Time for me to go back there.
              BTW, I know of one “OT” who burned out his liver, and wonder now how many times he did “the program”. As you can see, Enthralled, although I definitely am way, way out of the cult, I still run across these areas where I look back at some of the positive things that seemed to happen, and stuck me there for a while, and need to sort it out. The bad stuff is all easy and obvious to deal with. I have gotten many informative comments, and seen some great posts in this thread, in fact.

        • John P.

          I guarantee you with absolute certainty that whatever caused that guy to trip out in the sauna was not drug residue coming back to make him high, given my multiple comments elsewhere on this page that DRUG RESIDUE DOES NOT EXIST past a highly predictable metabolic clearance cycle for each administration.

          • Exterrier

            Probably total,mineral depletion, or something he took that same day.

        • stateofcircle

          And as I have mentioned previously in this thread, the placebo effect is very, very real and can have very powerful effects. I provided a a link to a decent primer about the validity of the placebo effect in my post a few up from this one.

          • Exterrier

            I’ll read it state,of circle. I am having an interesting time examining retrospectively the few good effects I got while in the cult back then……for a lot of reasons. If money could be made on the placebo effect legitimately, it would get a lot more attention than it does. It might be the strongest medicine out there, ironically.

      • Bella Legosi

        Thank you John P. I can always count on your intellect! See, you do learn something everyday!

      • EnthralledObserver

        I always wonder how they then consider/deal with or even recognise the ‘overdose’ of Niacin… which, duiring this process, is forced into the body.
        And I’m still waiting to hear from someone the reason Niacin is used above any other vitamin. i.e. what do they think it actually does specifically… and why would they think it does that? How does it do it, in scientific terms? (I’m guessing they don’t know – it’s just something Hubbard ‘said’? )

        • John P.

          I have not made a broad study of health fads and quackery, but I suspect that Hubbard went with Niacin perhaps because nobody else had glommed onto it as their singular “discovery.” Nobody is going to hail as a medical genius the 358th guy to proclaim the miracle of St. John’s Wort, for example.

          Perhaps most important is the “niacin flush” phenomenon where you get elevated skin temps which can easily be construed as “proof” that something is happening. I don’t specifically recall, but I doubt that mega-doses of other vitamins or other commonly available food supplements have similar effects. A possible exception is capsaicin, the ingredient in chili peppers, though sensitivity to it varies widely among individuals.

          If I were a health fraudster (not a deluded “true believer” but a cynical and deliberate fraudster), I would go with niacin as my #1 choice to base a quack cure on because of the more consistent “niacin flush” that would convince a high percentage of the idiots that tried my supplements that they were getting immediate results. I don’t know if Hubbard was a deliberate, knowing fraudster or a deluded “true believer” in this particular area, but it seems likely that he knew he had to come up with some concoction to sell as part of the larger scheme.

          • EnthralledObserver

            Thank you, John, for answering my question.

            And now I am agape… so there is no actual reason to use this vitamin for this specific purpose except that it has a specific effect on the body that Hubbard just made up an explanation for?

            Really? I mean, really, really?

            I was prescribed something by a doctor one time, and because he wasn’t able (or didn’t understand my want) to describe precisely how it worked and what it would do to me I ended up not taking it. Don’t these idiots want to know what they are putting in their bodies and what it will do, and how it works?

            So, I’m going to go look up Niacin (been meaning to do it for months) to find out what it is and does from a scientific point of view…

          • noseinabk

            “I have not made a broad study of health fads and quackery,”

            “Perhaps most important is the “niacin flush” phenomenon where you get elevated skin temps which can easily be construed as “proof” that something is happening.

            I, unfortunately have been subjected to very similar health fad BS. Same shit different day. The following is an example of it.

            “Juice Plus Problems and Complaints

            It’s not difficult to find internet posts by dissatisfied customers who claim to have taken Juice Plus. Problems reported most often include skin rashes and eruptions after taking the product. This could be due to a simple food allergy, as consumers may fail to read the fine print on the nutritional supplement label, and may inadvertently ingest the product unaware of whether it contains an ingredient to which they are allergic.

            A common counter-claim made by Juice Plus distributors is that the skin rashes are normal, and to be expected when the body is “detoxifying”. While this a possibility (at least in my personal experience with fasting and cleansing regimens), it is doubtful that the product contains sufficient amounts of anti-oxidants and nutrients to cause a massive “toxic flush” of the sort that could result in skin eruptions.”

    • grundoon

      Putting niacin into your system has not one thing to do with cleaning anything out of your system.

  • Bella Legosi

    When I got recruited for the National Guard, I was all set (I actually had weighed a lot less back then) but pissed dirty for like 3 narcotics. So, the recruiter gave me an exercise and niacin regimen to follow (he also gave me a diet plan to speed up the detox). This regimen included 5,000mg of CR Niacin! I was able to do it for 2 days then got the worse lymph node flu EVER. My pits, and throat swelled up and I got extremely sick. That is when I sobered up and decided not to join the Army

    • grundoon

      Take a win!

  • Captain Howdy

    Anybody seen Andrew around lately?

    • coonellie

      I had the same thought at 3am this morning…haven’t seen hide nor hair of him. Yesterday was a public holiday (Queen’s B-day) but it’s been longer than a three-day weekend.

      • Captain Howdy

        We want Gandalf !

      • EnthralledObserver

        :D I had a four-day weekend – our show holiday was Friday. That was such a nice, long break. :D

    • sugarplumfairy

      I check for him ever day and alas, I am disappointed..

    • noseinabk

      Last link on disqus was 12 days ago?

  • Exterrier

    Hmmmmmmm……. Sorry to say, but the Purification was the one thing in my several years experience with Scientology that really worked for me. Placebo? I had some nasty residues of work related chemical toxins in me, and my brain fog was overwhelming. My mood was awful all the time. After six weeks of my purification experience, those symptoms were gone. I was a happy camper, and hung around a few years for similar miracles to take place, which mostly did not happen. I also observed some other apparent cures or rather purges of people who had drug histories, either of recreational drugs, or anaesthetics which “ran out” while sweating. I saw some kids on this program, which was a waste of time and possibly dangerous, but most profitable for the Reg and church, I’m sure. But I also observed different swim suit strap marks appear and disappear on women on the purification, so there seemed to be some verity in the claim that radiation might be stored under the surface. No stigmata, though.
    The creepy thing was that while I was on it, we had the L.A. Rodney King stuff happen, so there were armed Sea Orgers on the roof, and National Guard guys on Franklin Ave with M16′s. And then, the “church” linked up with Russia, and the sauna filled for a while with burly hairy Russian guys, looking to work off Chernobyl exposure. They really seemed dangerous, like former KGB, or corrupt but rich officials or businessmen.
    But in all honesty, and you know that I am very much out of that criminal mind control enterprise, the Purification sweat lodge program was perhaps the right cure for my particular condition. It worked, at any rate. I don’t see where itwould be a good “one size fits all” cure all for everybody for everything….but in the robotic church, it is no surprise that everybody has to do the same thing.

    • stanrogers

      Correlation ≠ causation. Have you ever considered that a break in routine might have had the same effect; that the vitamin-and-sauna ritual were only situational accidents of what was really going on?

      • EnthralledObserver

        Yep, yep… that’d be my guess too.

      • Exterrier

        Yes. I’m absolutely sure you are right about that. And my metabolism responds well to saunas to this day….. 20 minute ones, though.

    • grundoon

      One thing that really works in Scientology is their ability to sell you the belief that you have “nasty residues” in you that, for several thousand dollars, they can remove.

      • Captain Howdy

        Armed Sea Org members on the roofs during the L.A riots? I bow to your vast scientological knowledge on this one.

        • Michael Leonard Tilse

          Yep. I heard about that too, from a Sea Org guy who would have known. You could see the fires at night from up in the main building. The armed guys on the roof were not widely known and not announced. They also had some pretty dramatic earthquake contingency scenarios gamed out.

          • Captain Howdy

            Thanks

        • Exterrier

          That was me, Howdy. Yes, I was sweating at Celebritard Center at a most fascinating time. All the fancy improvements went in, the Garden Pavilion opened, the King riots, the Russian invasion of the the Purif. And I was really new to it all, and in need of some entertainment.

      • FistOfXenu

        They just say that. Really the nasty residues are your money and $cientarCONon promises to clean you out.

      • Exterrier

        Like them lil Theta buddy body attachments?

  • Xique

    Claire, I’m glad the “Over run” didn’t kill you. Throwing up vitamins 2 wks after the rundown, that’s frightening! After 26 days on PR I’d had enough. I attested to the End Phenomena, but I was simply at th END of my rope. Ugh! Also I recall borrowing the money to do it , when I was in no position to ask anyone for that amount of cash. Cringe worthy now that I think about it. Ugh again.

  • Larry Moore

    I did the purif with my wife and a mutual female friend of ours in the early 1980′s. After about 3 days (after work each evening) I said to myself “Fk this” I’m done. I went to the office and announced I was done. The staff person ‘acked’ me and it was over. I was outta there. When my wife and our friend found out I was done (this is the bad part) they begged me to tell them what I said to get it over with. I wouldn’t tell them. I said that would be out ethics. Actually having the home alone every evening for the next week or so was wonderful.

    The punch line of the story being A: The purif is bullshit and they buckled when I said I AM DONE. and B: it was mean of me to let the ladies suffer an extra week in the sauna just so I could have the cave to myself. lol.

  • grundoon

    Tony’s May 27 Narconon article – and the comments – are worth a second look.

  • stateofcircle

    When a person is on the Putrification Rundown, they are required to do considerable exercise, follow a healthy diet and exercise. Now, I know that those things are a totally new and completely novel scientific revelation, but believe it or not, a great many of health issues can be significantly reduced or even go away completely. In fact, I hear that health care professionals are starting to recommend this to people as a first line treatment and also as a preventative measure. Did you know that certain changes in diet can even successfully treat many cardiac conditions? There are some “scientists” and “doctors” out there that have published some pretty cool studies on this. Since this “diet and exercise” theory hasn’t been around for very long, I guess we’ll have to see what the long term effects are, but I am pretty optimistic about it.

    In all seriousness, I decided to become a nutritionist because, besides my great love for food and cooking, I always had a fascination with the way food, herbs, mineral and vitamins effected people. Many of my family members work in the medical field, and I was always interested in the diet plans certain patients with certain conditions were put on. Now that I have and continue to study the field and currently work in it, I can say that I have personally seen many positive changes and even dramatic results from a person’s change in diet. Of course everyone is different and diet plans and conditions vary, but even making general healthy changes in a persons diet yields positive results. As I mentioned above, there are many health conditions that can be treated very successfully through condition-specific diet plans. I am not sure if there is a specific diet plan on the purif, and if an ex can elaborate that would be great, but I do know participants are required to have a healthy and complete diet. Adding exercise can only increase these positive effects significantly.

    In addition, the placebo effect is very real. For that reason and the reasons above, I have no doubt that participants in the purif have had positive results from it. The following is a good overview of the placebo effect and why it is real. I recommend watching the video in the article as well: http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2011/08/15/the-amazing-power-of-the-placebo-effect/

    Of course, this is not to say the obscene doses of niacin and other substances is in any way positive or valid. I suspect that if those elements were removed from the procedure, it would yield the same, if not much better, results from participants.

  • stateofcircle

    I wrote a pretty sweet comment that took a lot of time and now it has disappeared!!!!! What happened?? I am really upset! First it said awaiting moderation and now it is gone. There was nothing remotely offensive about it, it was above diet and exercise. AAAAGGGHHH!

    • BuryTheNuts2

      I have had that happen before too.
      Did you have any links attached?

      • stateofcircle

        Yeah, it was a link to a legitimate site. I edited the post a few times because I misspelled some stuff too. M very, very sad and angry. I’m kicking myself because I had copied over to my gmail, but deleted the draft and it’s not in the trash. :( stupid iPad. Grrrrr

        • EnthralledObserver

          I see one by you, a long one… it begins “When a person is on the Purification Rundown, they are required to do considerable exercise, follow….”
          Is this the one?

          • stateofcircle

            Yes!

            • EnthralledObserver

              Yep, well I see it, so it’s just Disqus playin’ wit yer mind… it’ll show up again for you in time. :D

            • stateofcircle

              Thank you!!!!

            • stateofcircle

              I give up. It won’t post, or I just can’t see it and it’s up 4 times. Every time I comment it says awaiting moderation and it’s a crapshoot if it’ll show up. This is my third time writing this one. Awesome.

            • And I don’t rent cars!

              It was worth the effort – on both your behalves (?behalfs). It is a nice, long post full of info.
              It is definitely is Disqus acting up and not your iPad. Your post showed up three times (1st one without link, the other two with links). Just as I went to click on your link, I stupidly hit ‘refresh’ and all 3 posts disappeared! So I’ve pounded the refresh key many times – to no avail. So I will wait until Disqus decides to relinquish your post again. It giveth … then taketh away…
              Thought you might want to know, in case it helps.
              P.S. I’m in Eastern Standard Time zone – if that makes any difference.

            • grundoon

              “Awaiting moderation” is a lie. When it says that, your comment is lost among the damned. Disqus seems to have some demented spamminess filter that kicks in randomly when a comment has too many links and not enough text. in Disqus’s insane electronic opinion. And especially if you edit your comment too soon after posting (maybe under a minute) and it contains a link. Disqus then curses your comment and if you post it again, or something almost like it, that too goes down the memory hole. When you see “awaiting moderation,” all you can do is post your comment again but change it enough so that Disqus doesn’t recognize it. And if your comment contains a link and you want to edit it, wait for a couple of minutes. Good luck!

            • And I don’t rent cars!

              Thanks for the Disqus tips. I’ve copied them and saved for further reference. With so many people here having trouble with Disqus (myself incuded), this will be really helpful.
              Idea: Maybe we could start a “file” with all of our tips and tricks with Disqus (that are not in the Help section) and update it and post it periodically. I’d offer to do it but I’m leaving at end of month to take care of 88 yr old mother – post surgery. My return date is unknown but if no one has picked up on the suggestion, I could start it? If it’s not a useful idea, let me know.

            • stateofcircle

              Discqus has really been a huge pain in the ass lately, to the point that I’m getting almost too frustrated with it to bother posting. I have to hit ‘reply’ and the up/down arrows multiple times before it will actually work, it will go back in time and not display recent comments, it refreshes all the damn time which is annoying in and of itself, but all of the “new comment” notifications go away when it does, and the new comments are either not there at all or I have to go through everything to find them, which is especially annoying when you’ve clicked “see more posts” a few times and have to go all the way back down, and when you’re on it with a mobile device good luck, because it’s a crapshoot whether it will even load properly or at all. And now posts are being eaten, never to be seen again. I realize these are not actual real problems, but it’s angering to no end and it needs to be fixed!!!

            • And I don’t rent cars!

              See my earlier comment to you. Disqus has not “hairballed” your post – nor is it in your profile stream. I got a chance to read it quickly last night before it (they) disappeared. It was very interesting.
              If you have the time, could you at least repost the link on the placebo effect? If it’s too much of a hassle, no worries, I understand.

            • stateofcircle
            • And I don’t rent cars!

              Thank you, thank you, “mille fois merci” (French for ‘a thousand times thank you’). I got your link. Yeah!

              I immediately clicked on it and bookmarked it just in case your post disappeared right before my eyes like last night. The article is fascinating – as I’ve only researched the placebo effect from within the medical field and I had never come across the word “nocebo” before. It had never occurred to me to look within the field of psychology – duh. I can’t wait to research both placebo and nocebo from that perspective and to read more up to date info.

              It certainly confirms some observations I’ve made about myself, friends and family. I have an elderly aunt and a young cousin who are both convinced that they can not, absolutely CAN NOT, take any kind of Western medication because of the side effects. They say they don’t have problems taking any other kind. It is unfortunate because my aunt had a heart attack and open heart surgery and refused, repeatedly, to take any heart meds, blood pressure meds, etc. prescribed by the cardiologists and family doctor before and after surgery because of her convinctions and belief system (and fear). So you can imagine what happened to her – being a heart patient and all. It’s very sad.

              You were bold to make the attempt try posting again after your other message described your difficulties with Disqus. I would wonder myself if I’d bother posting again! I have even tried to send feedback to Disqus when things were particularly bad but I only got a cursor that spun into infinity until I’d get frustrated and cancel the whole thing.

              I have been considering sending Scott Pilutik (BunkerFund@tonyortega.org) an email about our ongoing problems, with cc’s going to Disqus and Tony. Some of us seem to have more problems with it than others (or they are not mentioning it) which makes me wonder if the computer platform and/or browser type and version might not be part of the problem.

              I certainly would like for Scott and Tony to reconsider having only 75 comments displayed at a time. It’s a real pain to search and find a post that is earlier or later somewhere other than in those 75 posts per page. Most blogs don’t have as many comments on a regular basis as is in the Bunker but those that do, break up the sections into 500 comments per page. THAT would be lovely but perhaps unmanageable for Tony and Scott’s server(s) set up. I really don’t know. I’m simply speculating.

              I have noticed, however, when it’s a long vacation weekend, a Friday night, or there is something dramatic happening in the world, that Disqus seems to have more problems.

            • Truthiwant

              It’s the niacin that does this. Shows up and then disappears. Just continue till End Phenomena!

          • stateofcircle

            If you still see it, do you think you could possibly copy it into an email to me? I know I’m being silly, but I want it back. My email is my name at gmail. If you don’t want to, I understand.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Done! :D

        • BuryTheNuts2

          It may be the link. It seems to trip on certain links sometimes.

  • media_lush

    hmmm, I find it strange the The Sun are posting ‘Is Will Smith a Scientologist’ at this late date…. now with added comments by:

    Samantha Domingo, 46, from Kent, was a member of the cult for 20 years and says: “In my opinion After Earth is about scientology.”….

    Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/film/4965167/will-smith-after-earth-scientology.html#ixzz2VyUXIDix
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/film/4965167/will-smith-after-earth-scientology.html

    • Espiando

      So, what’s the ETA on you talking about something regarding Scientology that doesn’t involve a celebutard? 2018?

      • media_lush

        suggest you take a deep sniff of my metaphorical finger and try and clear your head

      • PreferToBeAnon2

        We rely on him to keep us posted! Have you seen his website? It rocks! Perhaps you should just skip over his postings if it is not to your liking.

  • Jgg2012

    Q. What do a bucket of clams have in common with the Church of Scientology corporate organization?
    A. They are both full of shells.

  • J.W.

    No, it’s a MAXIMUM of 4.5 hours in the sauna a day. The minimum is 1.5 hours. Look it up in Clear Body Clear Mind if you don’t believe me. And 5000mg of niacin is the maximum possible allowed by the end of the program. I think most people only go up to 2500mg or around there. Not sure if Claire is purposely exaggerating things or just misinformed.

    LSD flashbacks are a known thing so why are you trying to discredit them? I did the Purif and had done E once before and I had E running out when I was doing the Purif so it must’ve been stored in my body somewhere.

  • Mary_McConnell

    Thank you, Claire and Tony.

  • Dave Roberts

    Niacin causes you to “flush”, but only on your skin. It has zero worth in terms of flushing out toxins or the possible residue of any drugs. More nonsense invented by LRH for unfortunate folks who have surrendered their power to reason to this cult.

    LRH wasn’t stupid. He must have known that this was a lie.

    Dave