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HOW SCIENTOLOGY COERCED A CHILD TO HAVE AN ABORTION: THE LAURA DECRESCENZO FILES

HOW SCIENTOLOGY COERCED A CHILD TO HAVE AN ABORTION: THE LAURA DECRESCENZO FILES

—————- In anticipation of her biggest day in court yet, Laura DeCrescenzo and her attorneys hit the Church of Scientology with 928 pages of new filings —————- Details from 18,000 pages of evidence show how Scientology manipulated a child to keep her working under slave-like conditions —————- A key document describing DeCrescenzo’s unwillingness to have her coerced abortion is missing from the evidence Scientology was ordered to produce By Tony Ortega Wednesday afternoon, Laura DeCrescenzo filed explosive new information in her four-year legal odyssey against the Church of Scientology, submitting 928 pages of new declarations and exhibits in anticipation of a crucial October 23 hearing in her lawsuit against the church which alleges abuse, including allegations that she was forced to have an abortion at only 17 years of age. Key to the new filings is information gleaned from thousands of pages of previously secret files that the church fought mightily to keep under wraps. But on Monday, the U.

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Word To Your Mother: Dianetics And Its Lack of Boundaries

oedipus&sphinxWelcome to our ongoing project, where we blog a 1950 first edition of Scientology’s bible, Dianetics, with the help of ex-Scientologist, lawyer, and author Vance Woodward. Go here for the first post in the series.

Vance, we’ve now reached another marathon chapter, “Mechanisms and Aspects of Therapy.” It reviews various techniques of dianetic therapy that L. Ron Hubbard has already described.

Generally, Hubbard is giving an auditor tips for how to deal with various issues that come up in therapy, always with the goal of eventually returning a patient to his or her very first engram, whatever first traumatized the little zygote soon after conception.

But in these instructions, we ran into something that really startled us and had never, as far as we can tell, come up before in this book.

As Hubbard is running down a list of “tools” that an auditor can use in therapy, he makes the point that an auditor must disregard what a patient thinks his case is about — an auditor is in charge of his case.

But it’s the way that Hubbard expresses this that really stunned us:

Wife, son, whatever you may be to the pre-clear, you are the auditor when you are auditing.

Hey, wait a minute. Hubbard never discussed this before — he apparently expects that just about any two people might engage in this therapy, even a man auditing his own mother, or a wife auditing her husband.

Say what?

We’re suddenly flashing on all of the material that’s come before — a fetus being knocked unconscious because his parents are having sex, “remembering” what his parents were shouting at each other while screwing or fighting.

And now, it comes out that Hubbard expected that this kind of thing would emerge while a mother was auditing her son, or a woman auditing her father?

The implications of that are actually very disturbing. Can you help us out here, Vance? By the time you had got into Scientology, were there some boundaries drawn that would keep, for example, a mother from auditing her son about the kinds of things that happened to him while he was (supposedly) in her womb?

VANCE: Even by the time I got in there weren’t any hard boundaries. Any two people are free to audit each other, including family members. Of course, there’s no directive that they do so. I’d say that, on balance, most Scientologists avoid giving or receiving auditing to their family members for the obvious reason that it might make it more difficult for the preclear to open up. And while Hubbard got a lot wrong, he definitely knew that absolutely nothing would happen in auditing if the preclear doesn’t trust and open up to the auditor. On the other hand, I met at least one guy who was quite proud that he had audited his own son to clear. So, they’re all over the map.

But let’s back up a little. First, Dianetics is supposed to be a sort of lay person’s psychotherapy, something that anybody could do. And who else are we going to do it with than our friends and family? I believe that Hubbard does note somewhere that it is not ideal for families or couples to audit each other for obvious reasons. On the other hand, he says that even bad auditing is better than no auditing. So, if nobody else is available, then you’re better off “co-auditing” with a family member than not auditing at all. So, yes, it’s shocking, but if we were to credit the idea that any auditing is better than none (a notion I reject, just in case you were wondering), it kind of would follow that family members should just hunker down and audit each other if nobody else were available.

Second, we should remember that Dianetics auditing isn’t much like (my notion of) a traditional talking therapy where patients try to figure out their problems with rational guidance from a therapist. Rather, in Dianetcs, preclears create a scene. There are no questions like, “How did that make you feel?” or “What made you think that?” or “Why did you say that?” It’s more like, “What happened next?” and “What’s the temperature?” The focus in Dianetics auditing is on the physical perceptions of the preclear rather than on mental status. So, as long as auditors can contain their incredulity about the scene being fabricated, things can proceed nicely. I think this at least notionally helps reduce the chances of family members getting into arguments during an auditing session.

Still, I get your point that it would be just a little uncomfortable for a child to regale mom or dad about their sexual exploits. For hard-core Scientologists, that’s something we would endure and proceed. That’s where the Scientology communication drills come into play, which teach a person how to not react to situations.

THE BUNKER: Another thing that surprised us in this chapter, Vance, was a four-letter word that Hubbard rarely seemed to use: love.

He has a short section titled “Love” in this big chapter, and it starts off with Hubbard waxing poetic again: “Without doubt Love has ruined more lives than war and made more happiness than all the dreams of Paradise.”

He then suggests that love comes in three types:

It has been discovered that there are three kinds of Love between woman and man: the first is covered under the law of affinity and is the affection with which Mankind holds Mankind; the second is sexual selection and is a true magnetism between partners; the third is compulsive “Love” dictated by nothing more reasonable than aberration.

Hubbard goes on to say that the second kind really only exists in legends, the first can be found if you look around, but that he’s really concerned with the third type, which “crams the courts with urgent pleas for divorce.”

Well, so much for love.

Vance, please tell us what you saw in regards to “2D” — Scientologists and their relationships, and what people seemed to think about the concept of “love” while you were in the church.

VANCE: Scientologists are all over the map in terms of relationships. Some Scientologists are romantic. Some are robotic. Relationships form and end. Infidelity is rare, but not unheard of. Child and spousal abuse are extremely rare so far as I can tell. On the whole, as long as both partners are Scientologists, most Scientology couples get along fine and are loving. Scientology is just like any other cult in that regard. And it makes sense. I mean, this is a group of people with a range of personalities weighted towards oddballs, and all of whom want to be better people and have better relationships. Granted, we all have different definitions of what it means to be a better person, but it’s pretty much universal for people to consider peaceful loving relationships to be better than acrimonious ones. I think it’s more about values than skills. Scientology offers some (but no cost-effective) skills for improving relationships with others. Either way, we’re talking about people who endorse and strive to evince warm relationships. Again, just like any other cult.

But maybe I didn’t quite answer your question. Referring back to the book, I think all those scenes of couples warring with each other are depictions of what Scientologists consider to be typical wog behavior: yet more evidence that Scientology works because Scientologists don’t act that way. I don’t recall ever having a discussion with anybody about these so-called three kinds of love. To me, it seemed like a pedestrian analysis. We have the customary two kinds of love: sexual/passionate and filial/philanthropic. And then Hubbard tells us there’s a third, which basically amounts to unhealthy co-dependency. Yawn. Of course, he packages it all in his own special twaddle to make it seem like these things “were discovered.”

Oh, one final point. Scientologists use “2D” as a noun to refer to their romantic partners or to sexual psychic energy. You can hear Scientologist talking about Joe and Betty “2D flowing” at each other. Even when I was in, that word choice drove me up the wall.

(Next week — Dianetics Has No Patience for ESP or Telepathy — That’s Pseudoscience!)

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on May 30, 2013 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

If you’d like to help support The Underground Bunker, please e-mail our webmaster Scott Pilutik at BunkerFund@tonyortega.org

 

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  • media_lush

    “On the other hand, I met at least one guy who was quite proud that he had audited his own son to clear.”

    ….. that is just too wierd for me to comprehend…. holding onto cans and telling my father how often I masturbated (a pretty common question I’m led to believe)…. disturbing.

    • Observer

      That whole auditing thing has the stench of prurient voyeurism about it. Even if the auditor is genuinely disinterested, you know COB just eats it right up.

      • media_lush

        This whole mother and masturbation thing has really hit a nerve with FLUNK_101….. hmmmm, methinks he was caught diddling away and never managed to get over it.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          I think he already explained it was just one time so it’s no big deal. Maybe there’s a delayed reaction, blowing steam off after Marty’s rousing comments yesterday?

    • FLUNK_101

      I was “in” for a few years. I never read “Dianetics,” and neither did a lot of other clams I knew.
      Vance Woodward doesn’t seem to have much insight into why people were drawn into Scientology. I think it’s a fair statement that I have more insight than he does. But, more often than not, people on this blog give me a hard time about it!
      Yes, Scientology is evil! But Tony could get that point across without misleading people, or making shit up.
      For instance, I once I audited my mom. Now that I’ve said that, it wouldn’t surprise me if some of your readers think I’m some kind of pervert. But, when I audited my dear mother, there was nothing weird about it. We didn’t talk about masturbation or prenatal engrams.
      Tony’s blog may be fun to read, but, especiallt with this retarded Vance Woodeard series, he make it harder and harder for a person like myself to speak honestly about his experiences in this evil con game.

      • Observer

        I don’t think you necessarily have more insight about why people are drawn to Scientology than Vance–you have different insight. I imagine there are as many reasons as there are Scientologists and exes.

        And no, my first thought when you said you had audited your mom wasn’t about a grilling on phallic assault on fetal you, lol. I believe many Scns hang on to at least some of their boundaries despite the “church’s” best efforts to strip them away.

        That said, there’s still no acceptable justification for the intrusive questions into people’s sex lives during auditing.

        • FLUNK_101

          Observer, this not the first time you’ve replied to one of my comments. Based on those replies, I think it’s reasonable to say that you haven’t the slightest idea what I’m talking about.
          Sorry if my comment seemed to wake you up a bit. Go back to sleep!

          • Observer

            Whatever. Not down arrowing you though.
            ;-)

            • sugarplumfairy

              Looks like its your turn today.. Thanks for that, I needed a break..

            • Captain Howdy

              Aren’t you his nurse?

              Get in there and give him his meds..STAT!

            • FLUNK_101

              Fuck you too!

            • Captain Howdy

              No Thanks….BP Boy

            • sugarplumfairy

              He just needs love..

            • VickiStubing
            • sugarplumfairy

              Yah!

            • lightblb62

              I have not posted here before. I have been reading what you all have been saying for over a year now. I didn’t think I had much to say. But maybe I do.

              Regarding relationships in the SO specifically, I must agree with Observer.
              I was on staff and in the SO from 1972 to 1982 so was involved up to the point of the first Mission Holders Meeting, and therefor knew/know all the old timers, who as you all now know, have been declared SP.
              The 2D scene in SCN, especially on staff in the SO, is at best, almost non existent. Apparently more so now then when I was in. I was on the Flag ship, I was at the Base, I was in NY during the transition from Ship to shore. Whilst on the ship, I was the 2nd person to become pregnant (oh horrors) (the first was Sandy Wilhere),and at 3+ months along, the then M.O. , supposedly trying to help me with a constipation problem, decided I needed to get an enema… so hauled me off to the local (we were in Portugal) Doc. Can you say “agony”? Well needless to say I ended up in bed for 3 days “spotting”, but didn’t miscarry. Many years later, I checked with a few nurses to see if it was considered “normal” to offer an enema in a doctor’s office whilst 3+ months along.. ummm.. that would be a large “NO”. Not unless you are trying to abort. Great There are more divorces per capita in the SO (at least then) and cheating on spouses than I have witnessed anywhere else. My child, who is fully an adult now, is still dealing with the charred remains of having 6 nannies in one day when the base first opened…to seeing me after I worked from 8 to midnight or longer. I would get back to our “room” in the wee hours, to find her sitting on the steps leading up to the 2nd floor of the motel.. (she was 3) There is no nurturing in the S.O.
              There may be attempts at love and affinity among one another.. but there is no nurturing. it isn’t allowed. Truly having “other dynamics”, like regular folks would distract from production and the overall mission and urgency of clearing the planet and Thursday at 2.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I am so sorry.
              But I am glad you finally posted.
              What a great contribution.

            • lightblb62

              Thanks BTN…no worries..I’ve been out for ages..although I DID just get my official SP Declare.. because I mistakenly posted here in my own name a time ago and “they” were watching”. Only took ‘em 32 years to get it. NOW I feel like I’m in the “IN” crowd! LOLOL….

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Haha, well welcome. Now that your officially declared, give em hell!

            • http://www.facebook.com/kim.obrien.775 Kim O’Brien

              it took 32 years??? for some reason …that just cracks me up .

            • lightblb62

              Yes.. after “blowing”.. (escaping).. in /82.. I went back and “routed out” properly.. which involved the usual stupid sec checks and me signing a paper declaring I was psychotic. Said paper having been written by Capt Bill who had been declared psychotic. ROFL
              Then I was just doing my thing and living life and deprogramming myself with the help of all my fellow Ex SO buds…seeing all the then relevant documentation from court cases and such….I only really just got interested in the goings on after the Kate/Tom mess.
              When I saw pictures of the “now” Clearwater it blew me away. It’s like something out of a sterile space movie. Used to be a veritable hive of activity back in the day. Anyway.. they had no reason to declare me up until recently ….my disaffection of the past 32 years had not been openly stated… my support of Nancy and all of those folks had not been public. Boy they were on me like fleas on a dawg! LOLOL

            • ParticleMom

              Congrats on your declare! Only CoS would keep someone on a watch list for decades.

            • Sherbet

              Wow, that confirms that “they” consider the Bunker a threat worth watching.

            • Captain Howdy
            • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

              That’s because they recognize what a threat to stats this site is (especially the commenting section).

              It’s like a venus flytrap of delicious reading that devours your attention and available time.

            • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

              Did you get an actual copy of the SP Declare or just told about it?

              Any this is the far outest crowd you’ll ever be in …

            • lightblb62

              I got a hard copy in the mail in a plain brown manila envelope. Addressed in 5th grade cursive. And re: this crow.. oh yeah.. I know lolol

            • http://www.facebook.com/kim.obrien.775 Kim O’Brien

              Hugs to you and your child . I am glad you are here ….

            • lightblb62

              Thanks Kim.. child is all grown up and doing fine thanks.

            • Observer

              Welcome, and thanks for sharing your story!

              Don’t be surprised if the Ghost Of 2:00 Thursdays pays you a visit later. Someone apparently has a stat for down arrowing all the comments on Tony’s blog every Thursday. They miss a few here and there, but most everyone gets at least one.

            • lightblb62

              Yes I have seen
              you guys say that. I never really paid attention to it though. I guess every down arrow gets reported. And if his/her stats are up, then maybe he/she will get an hour or two off. Maybe. K… maybe not. lolol

            • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

              I’ve been wondering if we should try a race to the bottom on Thursdays where instead of up-voting things we agree with, we do a down-vote instead.

              Would the Ghost of 2:00 feel compelled to continue down-voting (although this would actually be a sign of agreement), up-vote (as a sign of disagreement) or curl into a fetal position?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              That is a good idea. It would sure be confusing to the stats now wouldn’t it

            • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

              I down-voted you in appreciation of the agreement. :D

            • N. Graham

              Me too!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Thanks, you guys are all right!~!~!

            • q-bird

              yeah yeah! let us mess with the up down arrows! I am going to down vote you now Bury!
              ha! fun!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Back at cha! ;)

            • q-bird

              i did it again! thing is, in order for this to ‘work’ all regular posters would have to agree… and I do wonder what the ‘real’ down voter would make of it all and then better yet, what would their handlers make of it? How would anybody know the stats then? LOL

              Truth of it is for me anyway, is that I get so into what’s being said that I totally forget to up or down vote anything – too busy following links & thinkin’ ’bout things.

              edit: I just down voted myself…

            • BuryTheNuts2

              You are funny q-bird!

            • George Layton

              At least maybe a couple extra hours of sleep!

            • ParticleMom

              If it really could give them some sleep, I would down arrow every post.

            • 0tessa

              Welcome on our blog. Thanks for your contribution.
              Congratulations on your ‘SP declare’. You are definitely part of the IN-crowd!

            • lightblb62

              Thanks Otessa. It might help others out there to know, that not being afraid of being declared is one of the best ways to show the Powers that Be, that their imagined Power is just that. Imagined. I do have an Ex still very much “in” and so didn’t want him to have to feel obligated to disconnect from my daughter, which he has tried to do a couple of times.. and she refused. But now.. well I know he will have to.( He has been in over 40 years now) So I have already prepped her for that. Any relationship they have had over the last 20 years is due to her forcing the issue and embarrassing him into “applying the ARC Triangle” with his own kid, and to quit being a hypocrite. lolol.. it was great to watch the back pedaling. She forced him to open up to accepting her for who she was….”just as she accepted his choices in life”….just great.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Sounds like she had to work to hard for her Dad already. That is unfortunate. I wish you both the best.

            • lightblb62

              She did. Which is/was part of her issues. But she works with it and has I think just let it go.

            • aquaclara

              Chiming in, too, with a thank you for posting! Welcome, and congratulations on your SP! We do indeed celebrate these! Sounds like you raised a very smart daughter, by the way. I’m sorry about her dad.

            • lightblb62

              Thanks for having a place for me to post! lol. My daughter is pretty strong. And kind and talented and she’ll be fine. Thank you.

            • 0tessa

              Wonderful daughter your have!

            • N. Graham

              Sounds like an exceptional daughter. You have been blessed.

            • q-bird

              You are sooo cool new commentator lightblb62 – Yay for getting out & speaking up!
              You are a treasure! Bravo!!! I am thrilled to the core that you are posting here.
              life goes on…………………… ;-)

            • lightblb62

              Well thanks q-bird. That was more of a “chimed in” than a “speaking up”. :0)
              And yes.. life do go on……………and Thursdays at two loses it’s significance. lolol

            • sugarplumfairy

              Thank you for posting that.. Wow.. I hope you’re being nurtured now.. And so happy you finally spoke out.. What you have to say is definitely worth waiting for..

            • N. Graham

              “I would get back to our “room” in the wee hours, to find her sitting on
              the steps leading up to the 2nd floor of the motel.. (she was 3)”

              That is sad. Poor child. Glad you got out and welcome to the speaking part of the blog. Good comments-Don’t be a stranger!

            • lightblb62

              It WAS sad. And it still comes up. But ya gotta move on and let that stuff go or it cripples. Too much good life to be lived and experienced without dwelling on all of that crap and making it a negative motivating force. To me, that’s a losing road to depression and nowhere. The guilt..the shoulda-woulda-coulda’s. Know what I mean?

            • DeElizabethan

              Thanks for sharing your story. What you must have gone though. Hope you continue visiting and speaking to us here.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Like hell!!!

            • Captain Howdy

              In this particular case..

            • sugarplumfairy

              I got a love bomb with your name on it too, Cap’n..

            • FLUNK_101

              Fuck you.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Grow up and stick to topic.. Our love life should stay private..

            • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

              Me thinks a nerve has been struck …..

            • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

              I got bitched at on Tuesday ….

            • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

              I agree with Flunk that there is something unappealing about your avatar. At least for me at first.

              The longer it has remained and the more accustomed to it I have become … I actually like it in relation to your handle.

              I hope you don’t change it because its an awesome meme for someone who is an Observer.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Hey Xenu, did you see what Flunk wrote to you on the other thread?
              The Claire Headley one? It is lovely.

            • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

              I did and even posted an apology and clarified what I was trying to communicate.

              I joined the commenting crowd knowing that this was not a place to introduce anything i deemed to fragile: truth, reality, ego.

              Without going too clammy …

              • I think it requires a certain level of being Clear to party here …

              • I think that you pull in the entheta you receive by what you put out …

              I will not claim to be perfect. I will not claim to always understand lives I’ve not lived.

              I will claim to at least try and have fun, be respectful to other commenters and admit when I’ve screwed things up with a mis-stated post.

            • Sherbet

              It’s Observer from Mystery Science Theater 3000, Xenu, don’tchaknow.

            • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

              Sorry … no … MST3K was banned on Mars due to it’s insistence on showing culturally insensitive programming …

            • Sherbet

              That’s strange — lrh would have thought it was just another part of OTIII, a documentary as it were.

            • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

              Sadly … yes … yes he would …

            • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Eckert/100002715429426 Robert Eckert

              I thought they were banned for Joking & Degrading

            • Observer

              They did take the occasional poke at Scientology, and got away with it when others didn’t.

            • Observer

              Unless YouTube is also unavailableon Mars, here are a couple of clips. The first one has all three Observers.The second is after one Observer (the one in my avatar) has joined the cast permanently, settled in, and has the nickname Brain Guy.

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyzW2H3Ey_Y

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ml6B15iPUk

            • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

              Fortunately YouTube is accessible here and the videos were quite enlightening.

              I must say that despite the obnoxious “Beware of Entheta Data” that now appears on my screen courtesy of Mrs. X, I was able to enjoy the content.

              I’ve asked my little Xena to work on smuggling in a boxed DVD set of MSTK3 via her sorority sisters on Venus.

              Fingers crossed (all 37 of them).

            • stateofcircle

              Are we really nattering about avatars? really????

            • Observer

              I’m not.

            • stateofcircle

              I know you’re not…..I’m just trying to be funny. Fail.

            • Observer

              “We all fail down here” … lol. It’s just been a bit tense today. And where is Downy?!

            • George Layton

              Don’t change yours! I’ve had to re-figure out who Bury was 15 times already!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I like to keep ya guessing George!

      • Spackle Motion

        I thought the whole point of this series was to break down Dianetics with a critic, not explain why people get into Scientology.

        • FLUNK_101

          Good point, Spackle motion.
          Dianetics is a pseudo-scientific pile of crap, and exposing that has some value. No one should ever waste their time reading it.
          Still, I find Vance Woodward to be lacking in insight or charm. He ‘s about exciting as a magnum of chloroform. I much prefer Jon Atack or Claire Headley.

          • Victoria Pandora

            I bet you haven’t read vances book, hes got a cutting sense of humour, and more importantly can look back on his experiences and laugh at himself.
            Seems you could at least appreciate that he is helping you breakdown hubbards bible, since you never even read it. Sheeesh, lay off.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Why can’t he dislike a book or author? This isn’t Marty’s place.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Hopefully this is the last time today that I’m going to address Flunk or his issues.. Flunk has some really interesting info to share.. But his random attacks on fellow commenters, and his attempts to divide, discredit him to a degree.. I say live and let live.. Say whatever you want.. But don’t freak when someone disagrees..

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              I concur: don’t freak when someone disagrees.

            • Captain Howdy

              He obviously has some kind of mood disorder, and I feel for the guy, but this is getting really tiresome. And that’s the last thing I’m going to say about it. Ignore tech from here on out.

            • FLUNK_101

              Thank you Captain Howdy for your wisdom.
              I don ‘t mind being ignored. And I ‘m not here to get “likes.” But I like to speak my mind, and I thank Tony for providing a forum. And I apologize if I sound a little harsh today.
              What I DON’T LIKE is people ridiculing me, or going “ad hominem,” when all I was trying to do is contribute something meaningful.

            • Observer

              If the ridicule you refer to was my poke at in-utero engrams, that was directed at Elron’s ridiculous statements about the effect of sex on fetuses and not at you. I sincerely apologize for my lack of clarity if that was the case.

            • FLUNK_101

              Don’t worry about it , Observer . I do appreciate your apology, not because you were wrong, but because it shows that you are a compassionate, caring person.
              Best wishes to you.

              FLUNK

            • FLUNK_101

              SugarPlunkFucktard-
              Yeah, yesterday I posted a comment about Marty, and you replied,
              “AAAAAAGGGGGHHHH!”
              You have a very strange sense of entitlement: you think you can ridicule and harass with impunity.
              It will come back to you!

            • N. Graham

              It seems like when blogs first started gaining in popularity, the diversity of opinions is what made them successful. Some blogs don’t welcome opinions that don’t jive with the majority. I think the ones that do are much more interesting. A blog without any controversy is very boring. Fortunately, it is impossible to separate controversy and $cientology so I know this blog will stay interesting. Even Skip Press made good points!

            • sugarplumfairy

              I agree.. I love our controversial blog..

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I miss Skip. He was crotchety, but interesting.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Me too..

            • Sherbet

              Me three.

            • Victoria Pandora

              I see no reason for him to ad hom vance all over the place. So, I told him so.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Vance’s writing style is eminently readable.. Fast, funny, informative.. I finished his book in one day.. Couldn’t stop reading until I finished it..

              We’ve heard here before that lots of scientologists never read Dianetics and that certainly explains a lot.. First the brainwashing tech.. Then the drivel..

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Eckert/100002715429426 Robert Eckert

            Everybody’s different. Vance has his fans here. If you’re not one of them, that’s fine too. But there is nothing constructive about trying to pick a fight about it.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Vance is just a conduit. It isn’t about Vance.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Flunk, there are reasons why doctors don’t treat their own family. And in auditing, you can’t as the auditor predict what is going to come up in session, now can you? I understand that you start out auditing a family member and it can work out okay for you a few times. You can also walk out in heavy rush hour traffic and not get smashed to a pulp the first few times.

        • FLUNK_101

          You are absolutely correct, THDNE. I only audited my mom once … and that was once enough!
          I was only “in” for a few years, and thank goodness I never had to disconnect. No one loves you more than your parents. As a child, my parents were my heroes, and I never let go of that, even when I was in Scientology.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Good for you. It seems to still be the make/break point for members and the few still lurking in the wings are only there waiting for their kids/parents to come back to them.

          • aquaclara

            “…and that was enough.” good description – I wondered, as I read the earlier post, whether this was ok enough, or quite a lousy experience. Thank you.
            How old you were when your parents joined? And can I ask if they are still in?

      • FLUNK_101

        You are absolutely correct, THDNE. I only audited my mom once … and I thank goodness I was only in for a few years, and I never had to disconnect. No one loves you more than your parents. As a child, they were my heroes, and I never let go of that, even when I was in the grips of this cult whose evil can not be fathomed.

      • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

        How is Tony misleading people or making things up?

        I will agree that there is a tongue-in-cheek flavor to parts of this series.

        I do find it odd that some Scientologists haven’t read Dianetics. But that could be analogous to Jews, Christians and Muslims who do not read the Torah. Bible (both Old and New Testaments) or the Quran.

        Then again, I could have a mistaken understanding of Dianetics in terms of its placement in Scientology Scripture canon.

        Any insight you can offer will be appreciated.

      • 0tessa

        I would like you to be able to speak honestly about your experiences in this evil con game. Because that is what we here almost all agree on: it is an evil con game.
        I don’t think you are some sort of pervert because you audited your mom. Not at all. I know that this happened: friends auditing friends, family auditing family. The thing is that in these middle of the road auditing sessions nothing extraordinary happened. For somebody who has not been auditing ‘in the good old days’ this is very difficult to understand. And if something juicy came along, it was just considered to be ‘case’ and not you, the person. So, it was kind of safe to talk about it.
        I know it to be a fact that very few people were able to read Dianetics from A to Z, very few indeed. I did not know anybody myself. The book was too tedious to read. And some things were just undigestible or downright unbelievable.

  • Observer

    When Vance says child and spousal abuse are “extremely rare” among Scientologists, surely he is only talking about physical abuse? Because shoving your children aside in pursuit of your own “eternity”, turning them over to the Sea Org, treating them as adults in little bodies, giving infants nothing but barley water, letting very young children make all their own decisions with no guidance or correction, writing KRs on your spouse, bankrupting your family for the sake of the “church”, divorcing your spouse at the whim of a dictatorial homunculus, or disconnecting from spouse and children because they dare think for themselves … if that’s not abuse, I don’t know what is. Just ask Derek.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      I think it is just not visible because of the insular nature of Scientologists. I would bet the actual numbers “at minimum” mimic “wog” society.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        No, it is much much more. Vance gets this wrong completely. Scientologists switch partners so often they could put on their own “So you think you can Square Dance?” show. Infidelity, abuse of any flavor has always been rampant. They just hide it better in the moment. It makes for great and profitable blackmail or manipulation material later. As soon as one person gets too many “levels” ahead, it is automatically acceptable if that person wants to get it on with someone at the same level. If infidelity occurs, it is forgiven by the group as long as they upgrade to their next wife/husband, and of course, pay the ethics officers, the auditors, the Bookstore, etc. In a scientology divorce, it is Usually the one with the most $ that wins, the exception being someone who Knows too much or too well connected.

        Then there is swapping out partners for who can afford more of the next levels, or someone who won’t complain about never being home with the family while off doing their next levels. There is intense pressure 24/7 in the lives of a scientologist. No one could experience it day in and day out without consequences. The mental and verbal abuse is extreme and perfectly acceptable in scientologyland. Scientology “tech” is in itself abusive. There is no love in
        scientology. Family time is on Sundays for a few hours. The wealthier members pawn their
        kids off to poor members to babysit and tutor and send them off to the Freewinds or boarding
        schools like Delphi or scientology summer camps (shudder).

        I haven’t heard of any spouses co auditing since the early 70′s. Mace Kingsley sends out child auditors on tours, but I have heard of parents auditing their children. 2nd and 3rd generation scientologists are one messed up boys and girls.

        • FLUNK_101

          Thank you your Holiness!
          You tell it like it is.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Thanks for this post. That is pretty darn clear, and very sad.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Hole, Marty put up my Post!
          And he called me Dr. Ruth for my Rottweiler comment!

          • Theo Sismanides

            Hey gentle and fearless lady, I also invited you back there. Actually, we don’t look down on anybody here.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I will be back later! At the dentist now!

            • ThetaBara

              O noes, moar dentist?!

            • sister wendy

              sorry you are at the dentist- and this is so off-topic. I’ve heard a rumor you make jewelry….can I see?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              https://www.etsy.com/shop/DrunkGirlJewelry
              Have fun. This is what I do to meditate~~~

            • sister wendy

              thanks- I love Etsy- see you there!

          • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

            Which article and which handle? I tried to find out but got lost in the back and forth between Marty and WBM.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Latest one under burythenuts…Annie broker av

            • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

              I so wish that there was a sarcasm font for your Ghandi reply.

              I also loved Theo Sismanides “so put your gun back as there is peace here now”.

              From what I can tell you pack something far dangerous than a weapon.

              You pack a keyboard, an attitude, experience and a mean wit.

              NOTE: Mean in a cool, good (not cruel) way; kind of like when bad was good. Crap … Flunk really has me second-guessing my language choices.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Yah, she does!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Thanks guys, but i just went back and toned it down some (sorta) and answered Theo.
              and I did apologize for the “Ghandi” crack. That was too childish even for me!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Never second guess yourself. the second guess is usually wrong ;)

        • Theo Sismanides

          wow, is that so? switching partners, infidelity, accepting spouses of higher levels. Wow, it looks like since I am gone this church has improved a lot! I can accept the pressure a Scientologist gets but not the rampant switching of partners the infidelities and the emotional neglect.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            If anyone would know about it Theo….She would!!!

            • Theo Sismanides

              oh ok who is she then? Mother Theresa?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              No. Someone who has a very long history with Scientology who has seen it up close and personal.

              And if you look further in the comments you will see others who were in Scientology who will reiterate these same things Theo.

              Your on a blog!

              Look, don’t listen -LRH

          • Jgg2012

            So why is Anne Archer so certain that her second marriage succeeded because of Scientology?

            • Lady Squash

              Warren Beatty’s prescription for a good marriage: Marry a happy person.

              Maybe Anne Archer just got lucky the second time and attributes the success of her marriage to Scientology. It’s what Scientologists do. If things are good it’s because of Scientology. If things are falling apart, it’s one’s own fault.

            • Jgg2012

              Yes, that’s what Nancy Cartwright did; Co$ got credit for her marriage; the divorce 10 years later “had nothing to do with it”; engaged again, her would be 2d husband commits suicide–Co$ had nothing to do with that either.

        • Michael Leonard Tilse

          You are so right about the swapping and trading up! I used to try to date within scientology by using Marcia Powell’s dating ‘service’. What a mess. I was ‘only’ clear so I didn’t get many wanting to date me. Plus there was a ‘back channel’ between Marcia and the girls that had the ‘hot skinny’ on who was a good prospect, how the dates went, etc. Not a good feeling for me after I figured that out.

          I remember seeing Simi Valley’s profile at Marcia’s. I expressed interest, but Marcia directed me away, saying something like, “Ahhh, Simi is having some troubles right now, so you probably wouldn’t want to.” I realized that she was doing this and wondered what she was saying about me.

          I remember being at an ‘event’ like at the Shrine and going to the ‘shark tank/after party’ and seeing someone I had known when I was in the Sea Org, Jean Dale. I was interested, and struck up a conversation. She was evidently ‘looking’ too, but as soon as she found out I was only ‘clear’ to her ‘OT V’, I saw the shutters come down and she started scanning the crowd again.

          As to the children, I remember the meeting where the Sea Org was going to send all the S.O. member’s children off to the ranch. They gave this quote from Hubbard that back in the Europe it was quite common for parents to send their children away for years and years to boarding schools for their education. Of course the little part about this being the aristocracy was conveniently left out. This caused a huge uproar and lots of S.O. parents left at that time.

          As to sexual abuse. Yes. I know personally of a few instances of sex abuse and statutory rape that were never reported to authorities, covered up by the cult. If I know of them, how many more must there be that I never encountered. Sadly, I didn’t come to my senses and report them. I didn’t even grasp that I should until I left Scientology.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            WHAT.
            WHAT.
            WHAT.?

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              Why?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              why what? the whack or the whack? ;)

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              Either, any, all. Just trying to figure out what part of my post lead to your needing to whack anything.

            • Kitz

              If you do ever make it to Corvallis, we definitely need to meet. Just think of the trouble we could cause! ;-)

          • Exterrier

            So many singles, broken families….the Marcia Powell dating service…..and she was the one who needed it the most. You were way better off Catholic than scientologist, as far as family stuff…..She actually kept a folder on all the singles….. I would even get calls to come to her events. Yes, the measure of your status was how far up the bridge you were, in so many case, and really, what your income was, because that was the best indicater of how far up you would be going. Wonder if there was wedded bliss promised in your eternity. too weird…so glad I came to my senses and left.

          • Lady Squash

            Good luck going to the Church for help if you marriage isn’t working. The Church will just try to sell you more services to “handle” the situation and in the end will side with whoever has the most money and/or is higher on the Bridge. Fact.

        • Exterrier

          Yes. I knew scn moms because of the age I was when I was in there. It could be a mess…..they loved their kids, but the kids were so, so confused by the rather disjointed, wacked out world of rules and disciplines they had to grow up in. And a certain lack of morals in their own culture, because scientology stresses “ethics” over morals. In fact, “Ethics” is a scn child’s nightmare…. Because “ethics” is not what it is in the wog world… no, it is place where you are sent to when your grades are bad, you argue with your parents, you don’t feel like staying “on course”, your boring scientology course, that is, or you manifest other signs of being a free normal kid. Ethics is punishment by authority, and tedious writing up of your “overts” against everybody,
          I know of only one instance where the kid has ended up pretty free, and pretty cool. Usually, by the way, these were broken families….almost always the case, and the breaking point was often over scientology.
          And sadly, the loyal parents, confused as they were, were in so many cases put in the helpless position of watching their kids get high pressure recruited into the slave corps called the Sea Org. No further education, no college, no worldly adventures….just a promise for an exciting world of saving the world, backed up by the RPF, and only Sunday afternoons off to do your laundry, sexual repression, abortion, grief and disconnection.
          I would not let my daughter play with the sceino kids, because they were mostly foul mouthed due to the lack of morals in the church, and the fact that so many of them witnessed the foul language that staff and even their parents used around the orgs, trickling down, I found, from the foul language and abuse characteristic of the Great One, and now Little Big Man.
          All of you are so right about the abuse. And where there was sexual abuse, it went unreported due to the insular legal culture of the church. I knew of one instance where the tweener girlfriend of a tweener scientologist had a baby by her friend’s father, and nothing was ever done to him. The tweener mom ended up in the Sea Org, the baby was shuffled off somewhere, and the creepy dad went to rpf for a while, then returned. Creepy, creepy. Don’t be a scientologist kid if you can help it.

        • Lady Squash

          Right on!

    • sugarplumfairy

      scientology couples don’t get to spend enough time together to get on each other’s nerves.. for that matter, they barely spend any time with their kids.. No wonder abuse is rare.. But how about abuse of coworkers??

      • stateofcircle

        You can’t hit your kids if you’re at the Org or Flag or on course somewhere constantly, or if they’re in some Scieno school, the SO or EPF or at some Scilon nanny all the time.

        What about the abuse the kids experience in the above mentioned places, where many Scientology kids actually are far more often than they are with their parents?

      • Lady Squash

        Right on! Employees are routinely abused. Even in the better Scientology companies you had to write up something called a CSW (Completed Staff Work) if you wanted a vacation. A CSW is really a proposal–asking for the time off, giving the reasons why and then you had to replace yourself before you could go. And then your boss had the right to reject your proposal. And don’t get me started about the Sea Org. That can get very, very dark.

    • FLUNK_101

      I always liked Daniel Dennett’s use of the word “homunculus” to describe consciousness in the brain. The word has its origins in alchemy, and is usually used as a representation of what it means to be human.
      Not a good choice, Observer, if you’re describing Hubbard …

      • Observer

        lol, no, I definitely meant Davey. Did Hubbard ever order people to divorce? I’ve never heard of him doing so.

        • Lady Squash

          “Did Hubbard ever order people to divorce?” Excellent question. I’ve heard of it often but only in the Sea Org. And it’s not exactly an “order”. It might happen like this: The husband or wife falls out of favor with management and is sent to the Scientology work camp, sometimes for years. The remaining spouse will be encouraged/pressured to divorce from the one in the work camp. He or she will be told his or her spouse is suppressive, not a good group member and on and you.

          BTW, no one has mentioned the coerced abortions. If that isn’t abuse, I don’t know what is. But then that only happens in the Sea Org and is pretty well covered up.

    • FLUNK_101

      “Just ask Derek”

      Funny how a lot of the people who fawn over Derek are the same people who like to give ME a hard time.

      No one on this blog wants to hear about an “ex” who’s proud to be who he is.
      To get respect on this blog, an ex-scientologist has to present himself as “damaged goods” … or a fucking crybaby.

      Derek once posted a comment that said, “I think Flunk is misunderstood.”
      A few minutes later, he deleted that sentence …
      But that’s OK, because I know why:
      Derek Bloch is a bitch who will do or say anything to get the approval of others.

      Fuck you, Derek.

      And, BTW, look at all these women who see men as “babies” that need to be “taken care of!”
      This is a very common complex amongst prostitutes.

      FLUNK

      • Sherbet

        Flunk, people in the Bunker are not the enemy. The evil secrets of scientology are the enemy. Disagreement is not war. Please try not to make this about personalities. You’re as welcome as any one of us is to share personal history and beliefs, and you often say things of great value, as I believe all of us do. Truce? Hugs?

      • BuryTheNuts2

        If you hate it so bad here,,,why don’t you just leave?

        Your constant irrational ultra sensitivity juxtaposed against your ultimate insulting pseudo intellectual arrogant douche-baggery has just gotten boring.

        You treat people like trash and then you have the fucking nerve to whine about mean everyone is to you?

        Get the fuck real!
        Why don’t you print out this whole thread and take it to your shrink and ask if it is us, or if it is you!
        I think you know what the answer will be.

        THE FUCKING END!

      • Davka

        Flunk, maybe I’m still tired from yesterday’s Marty-related comment fest, but all this name calling is exhausting, and unfair. It’s not Derek’s fault, nor is it yours. Let’s all take break and have some chocolate, ok? Really, let’s not grind any new axes.

      • Davka

        That said, I would also really appreciate it if you would refrain from mysoginstic references too, in addition to the plain old name calling.

      • http://www.facebook.com/kim.obrien.775 Kim O’Brien

        you are starting to piss me off ….do not pick on Derek ..do not call women prostitutes …i am not sure who pissed in your cheerios this morning but if you need a hug …just say so . We love you too flunk ….but try not to lash out if you feel bad …just tell us why you feel bad and maybe we can help . Scientology fucks people up …we all know that …i am sorry if you are having a bad day …been there myself . Please just take a moment …breathe deeply …and know that we are here for you .

        • FLUNK_101

          “I’m not sure who pissed in your Cherios this morning”

          Yesterday, it was SugarPlumShithead. The day before, Xenu, Lord of Kobol …

          • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

            I’d say Tuesday was a reading of a reply a little too personally.

            I do hope you have the courtesy to at least read my response.

            If you choose accept my apology/explanation, great.

            If you choose not to accept my apology/explanation, I’m not sure what else to do but recommend a different choice of breakfast cereals. I’d go with Cocoa Puffs to at least get the liquid to change to chocolate.

            “Chocolate always changes pissy days to good days.” – Milton Hershey (1905)

          • http://www.facebook.com/kim.obrien.775 Kim O’Brien

            today is a new day Flunk …we disagree here all the time . I am sure you will be shocked to hear that some people have even been angry with wonderful ME ( gasp ) but we can all handle it . You included . You are too valuable here , and have to many good things to say ..just relax and know that no one is here to hurt you . We can disagree …we can even call each other out …but no one is here to hurt you so try not to hurt us . I do not like being compared to a prostitute nor does any other woman …not a good call on your part . Lashing out at Derek will only hurt your heart …seriously

          • stillgrace

            As your duly appointed conscience, I have arrived to let you know that, once again, you have fallen off the rails. Please apologize to the Bunkerites you have insulted. You don’t have to apologize to me, I truly do understand that it’s not your fault.

            • Captain Howdy

              LOL I was just wondering where you’ve been..seriously

            • stillgrace

              Hi Captain. I recently took on a consulting gig that is taking up most of my time. Most days, by the time I get here, everything I want to say, has already been said! Chocolate Velvet said something to that effect the other day. Between my family, my new gig and my weekly attempt to educate Kerry on the evils of associating with Anne Archer, I don’t have much time to hang around.

              I did want to thank you for posting that video on the quackery of chiropractors. I realized that industry was a fraud after leaving a chiropractic office and seeing a shiny new Porsche in the “doctor’s” parking spot! He had just informed me that I needed at least four visits a week to fix my bad back. I put two and two together and went to a acupuncturist who refreshingly said after one treatment: “If the pain comes back, you come back.”

            • Captain Howdy

              Knock em dead with the new gig. Acupuncture? Hold on, I’ll be back.

            • Exterrier

              Stick with drugs and surgery. They don’t work, but are covered by insurance in all cases, and normed into the acceptable range of therapies.
              Actually, the most powerful medicine out there by test might be placebo. That says something.

          • sugarplumfairy

            Ooohh.. I lovvvvve personal little pet names.. =)

            • Captain Howdy

              Hee hee…”You people have a little pet name for everybody.”

            • sugarplumfairy

              No soup for you!

            • Andrew Robertson

              Good. I’ll continue to call you Miss Plum until you tell me not to.

              I like Derek a lot because he is honest, articulate and thoughtful and speaks objectively about his life experiences and how Scientology can corrupt family bonds.

              He’s a very decent young man.

              Andrew

              BBC News Online as an amusing article on pet names:

              ‘Languages of love: 10 unusual terms of endearment’

              http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22699938

            • Captain Howdy

              Andrew, how’s the weather in Auckland? It’s still May, and it’s 90 degrees in freaking Boston and it SUCKS!

            • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

              Come to the Midwest where it snows Saturday, is 100 on Monday and in the 60s the rest of the week (and this was in May)

            • http://www.facebook.com/kim.obrien.775 Kim O’Brien

              hey …do you live in Denver too ?? LOL

            • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

              No … someplace with a ~200 degree swing when you factor in windchill and heat index.

            • VickiStubing

              I think Midwest Mom got snow last week. We just turned on the A/C, but we are just a wee bit south of her.

            • Andrew Robertson

              Tomorrow is the first day of winter in the lands south of the equator. It is pleasantly cool with a gentle zephyr blowing from the north at 26 km/h.

              The Ministry for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice has ordered all Wellington citizens to wear 3 clothing layers and 1 windproof layer.

              Such a dictate would not be tolerated by those living in a free country like America.

              http://metservice.com/towns-cities/wellington/wellington-city

              Andrew

            • sugarplumfairy

              I love when you call me miss plum..

              And like you, Andrew, Derek is kind..

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Can I call you “sun block” then?

            • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

              I’m assuming as long as you don’t equate the SPF level with age you’ll be fine.

              Unless SPF is 20 or 25.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Nevah!

            • sugarplumfairy

              I wish I were 25!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I am. In fact I liked it so much I did it twice!

            • sugarplumfairy

              Of course you can.. But it’s not nearly as appealing as sugarplumshithead..

            • BuryTheNuts2

              lol

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Cheers. I salute you SugarPlumShitHead!

              Wear your badge with honor.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Lol.. Friday can’t come fast enough..

            • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

              I had to remind Xenu Jr. that it takes all kinds to make the universe go round.

              My favorites include those who can a help the process along (and arguably easier) by using fermented fruit/vegetable based beverages.

              Trust me: fermented lettuce juice is NOT as pleasant as it sounds.

            • Andrew Robertson

              I find it disappointing when my friends, for no sensible reason, refuse to drink my home-made onion wine even after assurances that the fermentation process removes the distinctive onion taste leaving a mellow though pleasantly sharp flavour.

              This is strange when they speak approvingly of my apricot wine.

              Andrew

      • Observer

        Flunk, I am not going to engage, either by responding in kind or down arrowing. Life is too short. I have no ill will toward you, and my disagreement with your earlier post in no way means that I discount your intelligence, knowledge or the useful and interesting info you bring here.

        But I am not going to engage.

      • media_lush

        To get respect here you should stop behaving like a whiney cunt from time to time.

        • Exterrier

          Zing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • Phil McKraken

        Take a chill-pill. You have no reason to be jealous of Derek. Face it — most people here agree with him more than they agree with you (on whatever it is you differ about). That’s no tragedy. That’s just they way it is. You go ahead and stand up for what you believe. There’s no reason to take it personally when you get push-back.

        As for the reason you claim for Derek removing that sentence, about you being misunderstood, from a comment once, you ought to either bring the evidence or apologize. Until you’ve asked him, you don’t know the reason why he did that.

        One more thing: Where do you get your information about the common complexes of prostitutes? Is that in one of Hubbard’s books?

      • Missionary Kid

        Flunk, how old are you, and how long did you spend in?

    • Chocolate Velvet

      Right on. There are many ways to do harm that don’t involve physical violence. Negligence can be more damaging than overt malice — if only because it can be harder to define and reject as abuse. Especially when the perpetrator pleads noble motives like “saving your eternity”, or “ARC”.

      L Ron may have sullied the concept of “covert aggression”, but it’s a real human pattern of behavior. One that is incredibly destructive to others. It seems to run rampant in the cult. In all cults, actually. “Downey” is an obvious example here, along with a few others.

    • ze moo

      Abuse within a family, either physical or sexual is still a closely held secret in most families. I’ve seen nothing that ‘immunizes’ scienos from such behavior. The neglects you mention are all too common in all cults or in any addiction.

      I am starting to see auditing and regging and other outrageous clam behavior as surrender to and wish for approval from the guru figure. While Lrooon was shaped a little like the Buddha, he lacks all the other qualities of Buddha. How Dave Miscavige became the new buddha, is beyond me.

    • N. Graham

      Other abuse: Not allowing children to get a normal education that will permit them to do something with their lives besides Scientology (or writing about it when they eventually blow), inadequate medical and dental care, allowing $cio to separate spouses and families for months and years, sending newbies to far-away areas that they are inadequately prepared for, holding on to passports so as to further imprison $cios, and countless more instances that will occur to me as soon as I hit the post button.

    • Still_On_Your_Side

      +++1

    • Lady Squash

      Bravo. My ex husband was an OT VII. He was a workaholic, insensitive to my needs, critical of my daughter and emotionally unavailable. Other than that he was a great husband. He didn’t beat me.

  • Ciru

    I love Hubbard’s fake passive voice. “It has been discovered that there are three kinds of love” rather than “I have decided that there are three kinds of love” lends so much credibility to the idea…

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Great point. The guy was just incredibly messed up.

    • Observer

      And obviously the only kind he was capable of was #3.

    • RMycroft

      It has long been known that Hubbard had the writing flair of a train wreck running into a beached whale.

      • Missionary Kid

        So the train on Venus ran into him?

        • RMycroft

          Either that or he was drinking a bottle of Venusian Crazy Train. (If there isn’t a cheap horrible “wine” by that name, there should be.)
          http://www.bumwine.com/

          • ze moo

            Glad to see ‘Night Train’ is still made. Not…..I remember a liquor store that used to sell 3.99 bottles of 2 1/2 gallon ‘wines’. After the burn of the first glass, you couldn’t taste it anymore. That was when I knew I would have a hard time becoming an alcoholic, some things just weren’t worth the hangover.

            • Missionary Kid

              In college in California in the 60s, there was a wine that came from Red Mountain Wineries that sold for $1.49 a gallon. We’d make punch out of it, mixing it with Hawaiian Punch for parties. We’d mix it to taste for the first batch, and while it was bad enough, people would drink it. Unfortunately, our taste buds were ruined by the second batch. People new to the party would spit it out, because we had no idea what it tasted like sober.

            • ze moo

              The trash can punch is a common party concoction. A bottle of vodka with hawaiian punch made for a good party.

            • Get Chutney Love

              Yes, it was popular in my college dorm in the late ’70s. Kool-aid and grain alcohol, we weren’t as fancy with the vodka, etc.

            • Missionary Kid

              We would put vodka or rum in the freezer so the alcohol couldn’t be tasted as easily. Vodka, mixed with grapefruit seemed to disguise the alcohol the best. Sometimes, we’d bring everclear (192 proof) back from Mexico.

              We were very poor when we resorted to Red Mountain or Triple Jack.

            • Captain Howdy

              Nothing tastes worse than Thunderbird, even straight gin is more drinkable.

            • Sherbet

              Boone’s Farm was the cheap beverage of choice back in my day.

            • Missionary Kid

              Triple jack, a fortified wine, was made by the same company that made Boone’s farm, and, while stronger, tasted worse.

            • Sherbet

              You seem to have walked a strange path from the life of missionaries to where you are today, Kid! //hic!//

            • Missionary Kid

              Yeah, and my grandmother was a member of the WCTU, and I was brought up, as the ditty says:
              Not to dance, drink, smoke or chew,
              Or go with girls who do.

              (Baptists also know that one well).

              When I went to college, my parents went back to the mission field. I had a full-ride scholarship to my dad’s alma mater, but went to UCLA instead.

              When I was in the Marine Corps, and in college, I drank a fair amount. Now, if I have one drink a month, it’s unusual. The dehydration affects my sinuses, and I get a sinus headache if I’m not careful.

              The good news is, my tolerance is so low that one drink, and I’m high.

            • Sherbet

              Where you joined the real world, apparently.

            • Missionary Kid

              I’d already joined it before that. My life as an adolescent was, what I describe as schizophrenic because I had two totally different lives.

              I had my church friends, (my dad wasn’t the minister, but he was a deacon) and I had my school friends. They were totally different groups: home and school. I behaved completely different when with each group.

              At home, after I graduated from high school, I got a half hour lecture from my dad for saying the word darn, which is, a contraction of damn.

              At school, I could and did cuss pretty well. I still have a control mechanism in my head that doesn’t let me swear if I don’t want to make someone uncomfortable.

              On the other hand, I timed my swearing after getting out of the Marine Corps, and went for 30 seconds with the only swear word repeated was fuck.

              I understand being in the cocoon of a cult because of the way I was raised and indoctrinated. It wasn’t a cult, but it was isolated from Realworld in a lot of ways.

              I think that one thing that helped the ultimate total transition is that while my dad was in China saving their souls, he was unconsciously becoming a practicing Taoist. He’d deny that, of course.

            • Sherbet

              Sometimes, when a child is forced into a behavioral box, he/she rebels or suffers emotionally. Parents don’t get it. I don’t know why they don’t. It’s so obvious, the damage they do.

            • Missionary Kid

              When you have a very strong belief system, you believe that you are saving your child’s soul by treating them that way, and that is the most important thing.

              My parents were not abusive to me. I was a male, and, in my father’s eyes, a future preacher. Because of my father’s sexism, he was psychologically abusive to my sisters.

              I realize now that he and my mother had PTSD from the horrors they witnessed in China, both when they traveled through Japanese occupied territory while our country was neutral, and, later, from the approaching Communist revolution.

            • Sherbet

              You’re very intuitive about your life, which makes you understand others’ lives. I like you, Kid!

            • Missionary Kid

              Well, I’m in my late 60s. I better know a little. I’ve also done a hell of a lot of different things, and lived around people from different cultures.

              Part of the Taoism that was seeped into my subconscious was a rejection of linear thinking. That’s pretty much what LRH used, and probably why I hate his shit.

              I’m lucky to have people who are usually as erudite as this group is. I like you too, Sherbet.

            • Sherbet

              Big smile.

            • Missionary Kid

              A lot of the PKs (preacher’s kids) that I’ve known seem to be either compliant or defiant. The box they’re placed in is more because of the community scrutinizing their every move.

              At least my parents treated me as a child when I was one, unlike the way that Derek was treated.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Wow, that is interesting MK. This is one of your most vulnerable and interesting posts to me.
              Ecspecially the Taoist part at the end

            • Missionary Kid

              I didn’t realize why I often looked at things differently until I took a comparative religion class in college. It started with the oldest religious texts, which were from India. When we got to The Tao, I realized that’s how I’d been looking at things all my life. When I told my sister, she’s the one who came up with the insight.

              As I understand it, Taoism isn’t a religion, but a philosophy. In China, the native religion was animism, but the attitudes were Taoist.

            • Sherbet

              I grew up in a first-generation Italian home, where I drank wine every evening with my supper, even as a child. As an adult, though, I don’t drink at all. It’s just extra calories to me.

            • Missionary Kid

              I had an Italian instructor in college who was a first generation American. She said that the school got a hold of her Edit: mother and told her that it wasn’t appropriate for her to send her little girl to school with a thermos full of watered down wine.

              Among first generation Italian Americans, alcoholism is rare, because Italians treat wine as food.

              After they start having the cocktail to relax in subsequent generations, the rate of alcoholism becomes the same as the rest of America.

            • Sherbet

              Oh, that’s so funny (the thermos story)!

            • Missionary Kid

              I still speak a little Italian, but the only place I do it now is at the restaurant a couple of blocks away. I’ve been speaking so much Spanish, I’ve forgotten it.

            • N. Graham

              The worst day of my life was the day after drinking Thunderbird.

          • Missionary Kid

            LRH probably drank it in a previous incarnation.

    • Chocolate Velvet

      I read a review of Dianetics from the 50′s or 60′s where they busted Hubbard for the passive voice ploy, and gratuitously complex language as well.  Good ways to hide a lack of substance.  I can’t find that one at the moment, but here’s a great review of DMSMH, from 1951.  Consumer reports got it right 62 years ago:

       ”In a study of L. Ron Hubbard’s text, one is impressed from the very beginning by a tendency to generalization and authoritative declarations unsupported by evidence or facts.”

      Yep.

      http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/consumer-review-0851.htm

      • Chocolate Velvet

        Or maybe this one will do — a 2005 review from Salon:

        “Perfectly clear words can be dragooned into sentences so grammatically torturous and incoherent that any meaning once inhabiting those words runs screaming from the wreckage. Context only helps you figure out a word’s definition when the context itself makes sense, and in “Dianetics,” it often doesn’t. Still, there’s a certain twisted panache to preemptively scolding your readers for not trying hard enough to grasp your point before you bedevil them with logic-defying exercises in the hanging modifier and the passive voice. You don’t get it? That’s because you didn’t look up enough words! What did I tell you, idiot?”

        http://www.salon.com/2005/06/28/dianetics/

        • aquaclara

          Love the irony in action here; brilliantly twisted writing commenting upon the twisted writing of another.
          Thanks, CV, for finding this. We need to keep this one around here.

        • ze moo

          The salon article nailed Lrooons sad upbringing.

      • ze moo

        Some people are good at smelling bullshit and are not too polite to keep it to themselves.

      • hogarthian

        Marty does that on his blog, uses gratuitously complex language. It’s fucking ridiculous, and makes him look like a tosser. But it really does make me laugh.

    • MissCandle

      Or the more succinct and factual-sounding: “There are three kinds of love.”

  • Bradley Greenwood

    The only religious tome more boring than Dianetics is The Book of Mormon, which Mark Twain called “chloroform in print”. No offense to Vance, but Thursdays are a drag.

    • Sherbet

      Aw, I don’t agree. Vance makes lrh’s opus clear and understandable for a never-in like me. Plus, he’s funny.

      • Bradley Greenwood

        Understandable, yes… but NO ONE can make it enjoyable. It’s more fun to “read” x-rays.

        • Sherbet

          That made me laugh, Bradley! Oh, the knee bone’s connected to the leg bone…

        • SFFrog

          Reading X-Rays can be surprisingly fun.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            And train schedules too!

    • VickiStubing

      Both books put me to sleep numerous times. It’s nice to hear someone else’s views on it, but I wish Vance had something more interesting on which to comment. Not likely, if it was penned by Hubtard.

      • Ciru

        I hope they do History of Man next. That sounds like a laugh a minute.

    • SFFrog

      To be fair, the Book of Mormon does include the Book of Ether.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        It should!!!

        • Sherbet

          If it had the Book of Tacos, would you read it, Bury?

          • BuryTheNuts2

            No,…but I would eat it :)

            • Sherbet

              Ether vs. Tacos. Easy decision.

            • Captain Howdy

              yeah..ether

            • hogarthian

              baahahahahah!

      • Bradley Greenwood

        Joseph Smith made LRH look like a rank amateur in the religious charlatan game.

        • Sherbet

          Smith had golden plates, and lrh/dm has titanium plates. lds has Moroni, scn has Bologni…Hmmm….I see parallels.

          • Bradley Greenwood

            DM’s main plate is in his skull… and I think the screws are loose.

            • Sherbet

              You’re hot today, Bradley! And I’m laughin’!

            • Bradley Greenwood

              This is what happens when you retire…and STILL think you have to get up at 5am; I am going have to sub this Fall. Do you capitalize “Fall”? THERE…I did again!

            • Missionary Kid

              The Skull Plate Special? If it has tacos, BTN2 is probably down for it.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Sorry, I missed that….I had a tortilla in my mouth….

            • Missionary Kid

              Damn. I knew it wasn’t funny enough to get you to spit it out on the keyboard.

            • Bradley Greenwood

              I actually have a keyboard than can be washed in the dishwasher! I LOVE IT!

            • Missionary Kid

              Good on ya, as the Aussies say.

            • Bradley Greenwood

              LOL… I had Vegemite on toast this morning! I’ve a mate in Oz that sends me a box o’ Vegemite, and Vegemite-flavored snacks each month.

            • Bradley Greenwood

              Toast+Butter+Vegemite+Coke Zero+Vicodin=Breakfast.

            • Missionary Kid

              Oh, shit! When I was at my Swedish cousin’s place, they would often have kaviar (no, not the Russian kind, it was pink and came in a tube like toothpaste) on top of a slice of cheese on toast for breakfast.

              It was quite salty. Ikea used to sell it, but now they only have the smoked kind. I do wish I could have some.

            • Bradley Greenwood

              The only Swedish food I ever have is at IKEA ;)

            • Missionary Kid

              It’s not bad. I didn’t understand why my mother liked horseradish until I realized that it was a common item used in food in Sweden. My dad, who was born there, really didn’t care if she fixed Swedish food or not.

              I grew up with lingonberries, instead of cranberries. I find them less bitter. Ikea has the drink in their restaurant, and the concentrate to make the drink in their food store.

              Swedish pancakes are really much the same as crepes, but they often put lingonberry jam in the middle of a rolled up pancake. When I cook them, there’s no need to grease the pan.

              There are some dishes that they don’t sell there that are indeed, foul. i do like pickled herring, and the word for salmon has the same pronunciation as the word in German: lox.

            • VickiStubing

              I love lingonberries! I’ve always wondered about my hubby’s food tastes–must be some Swedish in him to explain the affection for pickled herring. I guess we’ll have to road trip to Ikea and see what other foods he’s been missing (without even knowing!).

            • Missionary Kid

              Pickled herring is a Baltic Sea dish, so if he grew up around Germans, Jews from that area, any Skandahoovians, or people from any of the other countries, he’d enjoy it.

            • VickiStubing

              Very interesting. Hubby is German/English, and I grew up thinking I was (mostly) German but recently found proof that we’re actually Ukrainian. Same region but with a twist. We will always have Oktoberfest!

            • Missionary Kid

              I’m a first, second, and third generation American of Swedish descent. My mother grew up in a Swedish-speaking community, but it was easy for her to learn English because her father was born here and her mother had been a school teacher.

              Have you had Swedish Rye Bread, or, as it’s called, Limpah? I probably love it because I grew up having it occasionally. My grandmother would make ginger snap cookies and butter cookies for Christmas. Uh oh. I’m waxing nostalgic.

            • ze moo

              While I sometimes enjoy nordic foods, I have to remind you of ‘lutefisk’. This is why our ancestors left the great white european north.

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqGG-AtJHUY

            • VickiStubing

              Indeed. Ugh. The division between German Lutherans and Scandinavian Lutherans is never greater than when the Lutefisk is brought to table.

            • ze moo

              The only difference between swedes and norwegians, is norwgians put butter on their lutefisk and swedes use milk gravy. I still prefer buffalo wings…..

            • VickiStubing

              Ugh, it gets worse than PLAIN lutefisk? My buffalo wing waves to your buffalo wing.

            • Missionary Kid

              You described the consistency of lutefisk exactly right. It was eaten throughout Nordic countries.

              Realize that lutefisk was only a means for preserving fish so it could be eaten at another time. Basically, the fish was dried, salted, and treated with lye.

              There’s another, far more stinky way of preserving fish that Swede’s used: Surströmming, which is fermented fish. My dad had it growing up poor in Northern Sweden. IMO, it would have helped me to emigrate.

              There are a whole series of ways of preserving food that have been developed close to the Arctic circle by native people that don’t smell good. They were developed as survival food when there was no refrigeration.

              I’ll stick to pickled herring and lox.

            • VickiStubing

              Wax away! No, I’ve never had Limpah. We shall have to try some, maybe with some of that kaviar…?

            • Missionary Kid

              They sell Smörgåskaviar in the food store at Ikea. It’s extremely salty. I don’t like the smoked style. It comes in a squeeze tube that looks like an oversized toothpaste tube.

              Another treat is the thin bread, which has the consistency of hard, brittle paper but is like an unsalted cracker.. It tastes great with butter and jam or lingonberries, or can be used like a cracker with traditional toppings like cheese.

              Their frozen Swedish meatballs and the gravy mix are pretty good. They serve it with lingonberries, but, since it wasn’t available, when I was a kid, perhaps that’s why my mom didn’t serve it that way.

              Limpa (I was spelling it wrong) won’t be found at Ikea. It is also known as Swedish rye made with orange rind, and sometimes orange juice, fennel and caraway seeds. You’ll have to find a specialized bakery. There used to be a Swedish bakery in Kingsburg, CA, that had it, but now some of the restaurants will bake some up and sell it. When I was traveling through, I’d go out of my way to find some.

            • VickiStubing

              Oh, I was just gonna look for a recipe online or ask the ladies at church for theirs (but they’re mostly German, too) and make it myself. It could add an interesting twist to hubby’s Reuben sandwiches. We have some homemade orange marmalade–sounds like maybe it would go with the Limpa for breakfast?

              My family isn’t too crazy about Swedish meatballs, the sauce, anyway. They love meatballs, but you know how it is: one likes BBQ sauce, one likes sweet-and-sour, one wants them in spaghetti, one is not eating meat this week….

            • Missionary Kid

              Here’s a recipe for limpa: http://scandinavianfood.about.com/od/breadrecipes/r/limpa_bread.htm I don’t know how good it is. I don’t remember using orange juice in it, but it’s probably been 55+ years since I helped my mother make it.

              Ikea used to serve the meatballs and gravy with the small potatoes, called “new potatoes” that you get in Sweden. Now, the potatoes are mashed. The gravy went over everything. They serve it with lingonberry sauce.

              It sounds like you’ve got is a family that likes things a particular way. When I cooked for my kids, my attitude was, “This is what’s for dinner. Eat it or don’t. You’re not getting anything else.” (I was a single parent for a number of years with one son and my ex with the other, but we traded them back and forth all the time). “If you want something different, you fix dinner.”

              What was always interesting was when one of their buddies would stay over night with us or go camping. I think that their mothers didn’t think a man could cook.

              I remember a mother asking what their kid had for dinner, and when I told her, she said, “He doesn’t eat that.”

              I said, “He did at my house.”

              I also took a kid camping along with us, and fixed salami and cheese sandwiches. I used mayonnaise, mustard, sweet relish, tomatoes, and lettuce in them in a Kaiser roll. When he got home, he insisted that his mom buy exactly the same ingredients and bread. I think it was because food tastes so good when you’re camping.

              I never got into a pissing contest with my kids about eating. There’s your food, eat it or don’t. No dessert, though, if you don’t. They were allowed to eat fruit anytime, even just before dinner. I had what I called and open (fruit) bowl policy.

              If someone puts BBQ sauce or sweet and sour sauce on meatballs, it’s because they have a sweet tooth. It is appropriate if you’re fixing the dish, but Swedish meatballs usually weren’t fixed with gravy when I had them. The gravy was for the potatoes.

              The spicing is different than for Italian meatballs. The traditional way of making Swedish meatballs has mostly ground beef, but with pork and sometimes veal added and spiced with nutmeg and cardamom and paprika. A lot of Swedes used sour creme, but my mom didn’t. I can taste mostly the nutmeg and paprika.

              You can use Swedish meatballs for spaghetti, but you can’t use Italian meatballs for Swedish.

              The reason this is so long is that I’m also writing this for my kids.

            • VickiStubing

              Thank you for so much information–and I’m thrilled to be lumped in with your kids getting your advice :D Yes, I let my kids have way too much control when they were little (I thought I was being a good Mummy, really!), but now dinner is what it is. I still try to make sure it’s something everyone will eat, but every so often someone eats cereal (that’s usually their choice if they don’t like my entree). I have the same reaction with their friends–they eat tons of stuff at my house that they don’t eat at home. Of course, nowadays few parents actually cook, so homecooked food is special to them. My youngest prefers his best friend’s Mom’s mac and cheese, even though I’ve made it following her recipe precisely.

              As far as the meatballs, I usually make up a huge batch and freeze them so I can thaw what I need. Maybe mine would go for the Swedish meatballs if I used your ideas for the meatballs. We always had noodles with ours, not potatoes. Actually, meatballs the way you describe them sound like a Turkish dish my Mom used to make occasionally. I will have to ask her about that recipe.

              And yes, everything tastes better when you’re camping!

            • Missionary Kid

              I’m a good cook, or so I’m told. I now have a buddy who eats with me. I think his standards are low, but he claims I’m pretty good. When he’s not around, I experiment.

              A couple of weeks ago, I took advantage of his liking for cheese and fixed cauliflower. After the water was drained off, I used a sauce I got out of a cook book: mayonnaise, mustard, and cheese. He’d said he didn’t really like cauliflower, but was willing to have some. He ate it all, and liked it.

              My mother’s attitude was that if you can read, you can cook. After my oldest got married, his wife thanked me for teaching him to cook. When he was living with me, the deal was, I cooked and he cleaned up. If he cooked, I cleaned up. It worked out pretty well, and he loved it when I had to clean up.

              My Joy of Cooking book has no mention of a microwave, but I use mine all the time to cook green beans or asparagus.

              The Swedes eat the small, new potatoes that are about the size of a fat bratwurst 1 1/2″ long. They have a lot of flavor to them, like the Yukon Golds that taste like they’ve got butter in them already.

              Someone once said that little kids learn they have power over two things: what goes into their bodies and when it comes out. I learned not to fight over whether they ate something or not. When a kid goes hungry, it’s a strong motivator to eat the next time.

            • VickiStubing

              Ja, I misunderstood the control over food thing and thought I should let them have some input/choices. Instead it made my life pretty miserable for a while. Now it’s cereal, sandwich or hunger. The bigger they get, the more likely they are to eat what I put in front of them, and they are good at trying new things. I draw the line at weird stuff tho, no liver and onions, no eggplant, and I don’t fry anything. I have a great brussel sprout recipe–you can’t even tell what it is! And I sneak veggies into lots of food beyond zucchini bread (spinach in brownies, squash in any ground meat recipe, etc.). So they eat healthy without making a fuss. I am not one to drown veggies in cheese sauce, either.

              Last night we ate out and the kids were thrilled to see the staff snapping a huge pile of green beans. “They’re fresh!” Oooh I love those Yukon Golds! So versatile.

              I’ve always had the kids in the kitchen with me. For some reason they still aren’t confident cooks, but they will not starve! The littlest is into baking :D and *maybe* wants to be a chef.

            • Missionary Kid

              Note: what follows is unsolicited advice, written for my other writing.

              That’s the difference between a man and a woman, to be sexist about it. I’ll explain that theory later below.

              First, realize that people can taste things differently on the biological level. Look up PTC taste. I’ve generalized it with a personal theory that genetically people taste things differently. Brussel sprouts have a VERY distinctive taste to me. You can disguise them with anything you want, and I’ll still taste them. I don’t dislike them, but I only cook them very occasionally, and I don’t cook them for someone else. I didn’t like spinach as a child. It had a sharp, bitter taste that I didn’t like then. As an adult, I like it. Possibly, your kids might like a spinach quiche.

              If I’m going to cook spinach, I use the frozen kind. It’s cheaper. In a salad, of course, I use fresh. It also tastes more to me like lettuce.

              Liver and onions are not weird to me. It’s just not a favorite. The only way I’ll eat liver is if someone happens to cook it for dinner or in liverwurst.

              The way my mother cooked eggplant, I really disliked. (One of the few things she didn’t cook well). She boiled the hell out of it so it had no flavor or texture. Once I had eggplant parmesan, I found I loved it. I’ve baked and barbecued eggplant. Olive oil, salt, and garlic are the keys. Parmesan cheese sprinkled on top when serving it can add to the flavor.

              Some people just don’t like certain textures. That’s one reason they don’t like the soft texture of lutefisk, eggplant, or properly ripened persimmons. (I’m not talking about the Japanese varieties, which can be eaten while still firm). The same goes for tofu. BTW, because of an academic who devised the Yale method of phonetically speaking Chinese and screwed it up, the proper pronunciation is dofu. Same for Tao. It’s pronounced dow. It’s also the reason that the Chinese changed the English spelling of Peking to Beijing, which is much closer to the Chinese phonetically.

              Spinach brownies? Are you fucking kidding me? I’ll pass, unless to try them once at your place. I disliked spinach as a kid, because it had a sharp taste. As an adult, I love it, especially with salt, lemon, and butter, or in quiche, but brownies?

              What’s this thing about no frying? Is that just deep frying? What about stir frying? The Chinese have been doing it for thousands of years. That’s how they cook vegetables quickly, because oil carries a much higher temperature to the items cooked.

              Were you brought up in the 60s when all sorts of weird food theories were promulgated? Yes, deep frying stuff can really be unhealthy, but IMO, occasionally doing it is O.K., and the little oil used in stir-frying spreads the heat around at a higher temperature than steaming or boiling.

              Because my mother, as an R.N., saw a lot of deficiency diseases in China, she was careful about our diets. Also,because she was raised on a farm and we had lived in China where they didn’t have meat inspection in either place, all meats were well done. I didn’t mind, because she made fantastic gravy. You’ll find a lot of Midwesterners cook their meat that way because of the farm heritage passed down.

              O.K. here’s the difference between man and women. Women are usually peacemakers, which is good. Kids take advantage of that and learn to raise a stink and wear their mothers down, because women tend to have a lot more empathy. That also goes for fathers, but women, are, I believe, more susceptible. Us men usually don’t know how we are feeling, or can’t express it, until we explode.

              I have empathy, too, but if a child whines or keeps pestering me, I tell them that the answer is no because of the way they approached me. I’ll also tell them that I’ll discuss it with them in 5 or 10 minutes or some other period of time, and if they bug me about it before that, the answer will still be no, and the countdown starts all over. I warn them that the ultimate answer may still be no, but as long as they whine or bug me about it, the answer is no.

              I did offer alternatives to my kids to eat, but it would be more of another vegetable that I fixed for the meal,or something like a raw carrot. No cereal. Hunger is a strong motivator to learn to like something. I never forced them to eat something, but found that food preferences were kids way of exercising power, and usually had little to do with the actual food. If they really didn’t like something like brussel sprouts, I didn’t fix it again or waited a long time to fix it again in a different way.

              I don’t know how old your kids are, but here’s something I fell into out of sheer desperation. The only thing worse than having a crabby kid in a car on a journey is going through the It’s a Small World ride at Disneyland.

              I happened to have one of the first digital watches that had a countdown feature. I set it so if I accessed the feature, the time was set at 5 minutes. This only works on kids over a certain age. I think I discovered it when the youngest was about 6 or 7.

              When a kid got crabby (yes I understand that there’s times when kids are hungry or tired) and they’d been crabby for a while, I’d tell them that they had five minutes for an attitude change. I’d punch the watch and start the countdown. In the next 5 minutes, they could bitch and moan all they wanted – but not get into a fight with a sibling. When the alarm went off, I’d let them know, that’s it.

              I didn’t expect sweetness and light, just civility. I didn’t talk to them unnecessarily or push it. The rule was, speak and act civilly. If they didn’t, I’d pull the car over and get in their face. You only have to do that once. They realize they aren’t going anywhere while you’re in their face, and getting in their face is something kids HATE. I never disparaged them or called them names, but their behavior and how I felt about it was a key topic.

              I realized later that first, I was teaching them that they were entitled to their opinion and their emotions, which they could freely give for 5 minutes, but that they were able to control their emotions. It was better than a time-out, because you can’t really give one in a car or other places. After a while, just me telling them that they had 5 minutes cooled them down fast.

              Another page of unsolicited advice.

            • Missionary Kid

              I put it that way because, “Good for you.” could be taken sarcastically, and I didn’t want to be misunderstood. ;-)

            • Bradley Greenwood

              I totally would have understood, but I am glad you made the effort anyway :)

            • Scientia

              Vegemite?? Pfft. Everyone knows that British Marmite is the greatest of ‘mites. Then NZ Marmite, then Beefy Bovril, the list goes on. Right at the bottom, just below human feculence, is the Aussie ‘mite. Bleeugh. :)

            • Andrew Robertson

              I’m bemused that anyone could conjure up such a nonsensical comparison between Vegemite and Marmite

              Vegemite is truly the nectar of the gods, its deep brown colour glistening with promises of sensual ecstasy, a consistency like butter, making spreading it on one’s toast a delight and its niacin content at 49.6 mg per 100 g guaranteed to drive out toxins, engrams and body thetans.

              Marmite is a foul tasting concoction, its deep brown colour redolent of festering and diseased swamps, a slimy consistency that sticks to the knife and a niacin content of 49.7 mg per 100 g an absurdly dangerous level guaranteed to cause foot rot, hair loss, and scabies.

              Andrew

            • Observer

              Where does Promite fit in? Or is it even on the scale?

            • Scientia

              Vegemite is a squirrel mite. Stay away from it. Marmite is the original and best. It is workable. It is delicious. It is the only truly tasty treat that has existed in the last 76 trillion years. It is laid out ready to be eaten. The taste is heavenly 100% of the time if served correctly. Vegemite, however, is offbeat and will fuck with your toast.

            • Captain Howdy

              Someone we know of doesn’t share your opinion

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB361I8KgtA

          • Captain Howdy

            “lds has Moroni, scn has Bologni”

            Thanks..I needed that.

            • Sherbet

              Wakka wakka, these are the jokes, folks. I’ll be here all week.

          • BosonStark

            Actually, the clam plates are stainless steel in titanium cases. Lucky for Shelly, titanium is light at least, so that matters when she’s let out of her cage and working long hours during her vacation in the plate quarry, re-stacking them in the secret vaults.

            Maybe if Joe Smith had thought to put his golden plates in titanium cases instead of wood boxes and pillow cases, then his whole seer stone in bottom of a hat over face translating “reformed Egyptian” schtick would be more credible, only because I don’t think anyone was doing metalwork with titanium until the 1940s.

        • Missionary Kid

          Maybe in numbers, but not pure evil.

          • Bradley Greenwood

            Smith ruined more lives. But I have to credit him with the greatest religious tripe ever to be born on this continent.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Eckert/100002715429426 Robert Eckert

      Have you ever tried to slog through The Urantia Book?

      • Observer

        Oh dear God I tried to read just a little of it once (a friend’s husband had deserted her and their kids for Urantia). It makes Dianetics seem both sane and fascinating by comparison.

  • Sherbet

    Why did lrh feel compelled to NUMBER everything? (Rhetorical question.)

    • Kevin Woolard

      Response 12b – it sounds more scientific

      • Sherbet

        You’re absolutely right, Kevin. “I am a scientist! Numbers mean science!”

        • Spackle Motion

          This is probably closer to the truth than my initial answer – LRH did a lot of things military style, which permeated a lot of his writing.

          • Observer

            And all those godforsaken acronyms!

          • Missionary Kid

            I disagree that he did things military style. He did things the way he thought the military should be run if he were in charge.

            He should have been court martialed, but, since it was war time, and the Navy needed officers, he wasn’t. If it was peacetime, he would have been cashiered and probably given a general discharge, IMO. That’s not as bad as a dishonorable discharge, but to an employer, it’s a stain.

            The military has feedback mechanisms even when there is a war on. LRH never had a feedback mechanism in Co$. His word was, and still is, the ultimate order for how something should be done.

            Even his “military style” was fake.

            • ze moo

              The Navy didn’t need officers like lrooon. They just tried to get him to a place where he couldn’t hurt anybody. No one had the interest to kick him out.

            • Missionary Kid

              They had a lot of other problems to deal with, and a court martial would have tied up valuable officers. It was bad enough that they had to convene a court of inquiry about his actions in Mexico, as I remember it.

              They were probably happy he was in the hospital.

              LRH: the ultimate wannabe, yet neverwas.

            • aquaclara

              fake, just like the uniforms and gold braid. oh, and shooping.

            • Missionary Kid

              Yup. Only a pretentious asshole or a ruler of a third world country would declare himself an admiral of a fleet of one or two ships.

            • aquaclara

              LOL

            • Spackle Motion

              True. Not having much experience with any military (real or Ron’s fake navy), I was speaking only to the question regarding his penchant for numbering everything. Usually that style is seen in 1) military documents, 2) government documents, and 3) legal documents (or my posts, as it seems).

              But you have very good points regarding LRH + military style/record.

  • ze moo

    “the third is compulsive “Love” dictated by nothing more reasonable than aberration.” Lrooon understood the love of a man and his moose.

    • Missionary Kid

      Leave my friend Bullwinkle out of this!

      • ze moo

        That’s a female moose, a cow. They can be very nasty if a calf is around or they get into fermented apples. You don’t want a 1/2 ton of drunk moose falling in love with you.

        • VickiStubing

          I’ll take your word for it….

          • BuryTheNuts2

            hehe, me too!

          • Sherbet

            ze moo apparently knows his/her way around ze moose.

            • Spackle Motion

              Must be a Canadian, eh?

            • ze moo

              Any cow in a storm, said the horny bull.
              Is it 1.1 for a bull to chase a moose?
              Is it bestiality?
              Is it just beer goggles at last call??

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I am going with the latter.

            • Spackle Motion

              Canada is Moostuckistan. They are everywhere up there, dangerous but strangely beautiful creatures hiding in plain sight.

        • Missionary Kid

          Sorry, I was trying to be a smart-ass, but unless I refresh my browser, I don’t get pictures. I didn’t see the picture until just now. ;-)

          • N. Graham

            It’s ok. The Bullwinkle comment was still appropriate. Bullwinkle comments are always good by me. Rocky too.

        • Captain Howdy

          “They can be very nasty if a calf is around”

          http://youtu.be/qe5wVeEChTw

          • aquaclara

            Oh, wow. That poor man who got trampled. Ikes. But the baby moose is verrry cute.

          • ze moo

            The cow later attacked a psychology professor. The moose is in the pay of the CCHR!

  • media_lush

    Wow, the media is really turning on Will Smith (lulz); look at the opening sentence of his latest film review:

    CHICAGO – The “sci” in M. Night Shyamalan’s sci-fi blockbuster “After Earth” clearly stands for Scientology and not science. There’s nothing remotely approaching honest science in this boring, preachy, horrendously made film that occasionally looks good but has nothing more worthwhile to say than a pamphlet trying to get you to convert to a cult.

    Ouch!

    Read more: http://www.hollywoodchicago.com/reviews/22261/horrendous-after-earth-insults-entire-planet#ixzz2Un0roYd3

    Even the good old Guardian is joining in and bringing up the scion angle….

    “Smith senior is, of course, one half of the uber-powerful Hollywood couple who insist they’re not Scientologists but who do give money to groups affiliated with Scientology and who did set up a private elementary school that deploys teaching methods formulated by L Ron Hubbard”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/30/will-smith-new-york-magazine-interview

    • Spackle Motion

      The media, I’ve noticed, aren’t too kind to Scientologists (even those in hiding like the Smith family), and it is well-deserved.

      I didn’t realize that the latest piece of putrid tripe titled “After Earth” was a Shystermalan special. I really don’t understand why he is allowed to continue making such large budget flops. He hasn’t had a good one since Six Sense (or whatever that was called). Usually after several large losses shysters like this guy fade away. Maybe you know why he’s constantly being hired?

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Yeah, his movies have mostly sucked. And I tried to give them a fair shake.

        • Sherbet

          Independence Day was a lot of fun, and WS’s character was a hoot, but that’s about all I can think of.

          • Captain Howdy

            Will Smith can’t act for shit, and I’ll hate him to my grave for what he did to one of my all time favorite novels “I Am Legend”.

            M Knight Shamalamadingdong has hit bottom. How do you go from directing good films, “The Sixth Sense”, and great films, “Unbreakable”, to everything he’s done since?

            • Sherbet

              Shamalamadingdong…love it! And I agree he’s been on a steady downward trajectory.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              That is who I was talking about

      • media_lush

        I’m guessing that any director worth his salt passed as soon as he saw the script…. what’s doubly schadenfreudesque about this is that the ‘Smiths’ are the producers as well. I always smell something rotten when a massive PR campaign involving the star and his family starts appearing everywhere. He’s even dragging his other son and DJ Jazzy Jeff for the (doomed) ride. BTW isn’t Jazzy still a scion? I posted some of the red carpet crap on my bollocks blog today and you only have to look at his wife’s face to realise that there’s a lot of tension behind the scenes. If this movie fails, which is likely if that review is anything to go by, then we have 2 of the worlds biggest “openers” failing big time with a wonderful common denominator of Scientology.

        • VickiStubing

          And didn’t Will write the story? Or at least get the ball rolling on the screenplay?

        • ze moo

          The actor as producer usually means the actor took very little in pay and traded it for a percentage of the movies profits. That deal often gets marginal films made. Perhaps this is ‘oblivion’ for the Smiths??? Nice to see all the media calling out the clams…..

    • ze moo

      “When the script for “After Earth” isn’t falling to typical coming-of-age
      sci-fi cliché, it is bombarding viewers with Scientology-centered
      teachings about fear that would make a ten-year-old cry uncle.

      or the Dianetics-laden preaching that has about as much real-world weight as a 3AM infomercial, there’s just nothing fun about “After Earth”.

      Oh, snap sister.

      • Observer

        When a trailer for After Earth popped up on TV, Mr. Observer grumbled “I wish they’d stop encouraging him to make movies.”

    • Sherbet

      While half of me says, Let’s be fair, scn-bashing shouldn’t be part of a movie review, the other half of me says, Man! It’s about time the media have become brave enough to declare open season on scientology, even within a movie review.

    • hogarthian

      Him and his son were on Graham Norton the other day here (chat show). His son made me want to hide behind a cushion. Precocious, spoiled, full of himself, needs a good slap…. which Mr. Norton himself said out loud, actually. Oh look! Here it is…..

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0hXy8qWa4w

      edit: oh ffs ML… you ARE here aren’t you?!

  • mook

    CCHR in St. Louis protesting against health insurance fraud. Ironic on so many levels
    https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/cchr-st-louis-rails-against-health-insurance-fraud.111265/#post-2312590

    • ze moo

      “Studies in numerous countries reveal that between 10% and 25% of
      psychiatrists and psychologists admit to sexually abusing their
      patients.” I wouldn’t put any faith in asstictics generated by any CO$ entity. Especially from a group that specializes in the exorcism of alien spirits inhabiting our bodies and sapping our natural abilities, like finding a good parking space and talking to spirits of the dead.

      • SFFrog

        Studies in numerous countries reveal that between 90% and 95% of references to unspecified studies are bollocks.

      • N. Graham

        I’d love to see that study! But if Ron says there was one, that’s good enough for $cios! “It’s been discovered” that Ron had a fertile imagination. And was not a firm believer in separating fantasy from fact.

  • mook

    Somebody please translate this patterns stuff from this bizarre Will Smith interview
    http://www.laineygossip.com/Will-and-Jaden-Smith’s-fascinating-interview-with-Vulture/27027

    • Sherbet

      I tried, but I left my decoder ring in my other pants.

    • Captain Howdy

      “Will: I’m a student of patterns. At heart, I’m a
      physicist. I look at everything in my life as trying to find the single
      equation, the theory of everything. ”

      And he’s got a diploma from Sequoia University to prove it.

      • Observer

        Zing!

      • Andrew Robertson

        I hope Will’s not wasting time learning calculus. As Ron explains:

        “Rate of change is this mathematics known as Calculus. … Now I hope you understand this, because I’ve never been able to make head nor tail of it. It must be some sort of a Black Magic operation, started out by the Luce cult — some immoral people who are operating up in New York City, Rockefeller Plaza — been thoroughly condemned by the whole society. Anyway, their rate-of-change theory — I’ve never seen any use for that mathematics, by the way — I love that mathematics, because it — I asked an engineer, one time, who was in his 6th year of engineering, if he’d ever used Calculus, and he told me yeah, once, once I did, he said. When did you use it? And he said I used it once. Let me see, what did you use it on? Oh yeah. Something on the rate-of-change of steam particles in boilers. And then we went out and tested it and found the answer was wrong.”

        Philadelphia Doctorate Course, Tape #58 (November 1952)

        Andrew (an admitted member of the Luce black magic cult of calculus.)

        • SFFrog

          I wonder if the “engineer” in question was Hubbard himself or some guy driving a train. The idea of an engineer having no use for calculus is ridiculous.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Eckert/100002715429426 Robert Eckert

            Possibly a “sanitary engineer”

      • BuryTheNuts2

        If he is a physicist at heart…WHY OH WHY would he be drawn to Scientology?

        • Captain Howdy

          Do you even have to ask?

          • BuryTheNuts2

            That is the same expression I get when trying to understand Quantum wave function!!!

    • VickiStubing

      My math-gifted son says it’s gibberish. At heart Will’s a physicist, just like Hubtard. They probably picked up a multi-variate calculus text or read about the Golden Measure or Fibonacci’s and thought it would make them sound smart. How’s that working for ya, Will?

      • SFFrog

        Not only does multi-dimensional math exist but some areas of math deal with infinite-dimensional spaces.

        • SFFrog

          Two downvotes for that? Someone likes measure theory even less than I do.

          • VickiStubing

            Like I said, my son is a math guy. He loves math, but unless you live in the Matrix, it’s not a way of life. It is a tool, a methodology, a manner of thinking, so many things, but a guide for living? Um, no.

            • Get Chutney Love

              2 cheers for Non-Euclidian calculus and transfinite numbers!

            • SFFrog

              I don’t know, the philisophical implications of Godel’s Incompleteness Theorem are kind of interesting.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH YES they are. And still controversial after all these years……………..

            • SFFrog

              One thing they demonstrate is that Hubbard’s attempts to axiomatize life, the universe and everything are inherently futile.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Maybe!

              (well, Hubbard is no maybe)
              But was Gödel right?

            • SFFrog

              About the Incompleteness Theorem? The mathematical proof is solid. You can argue about what constitutes the set of systems to which it applies, but it definitely applies to any branch of mathematics worth dealing with.

              He was probably not right about his belief that people were trying to poison him, though.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              That is arguable. It has proved workable in the same way Quantum mechanics has.
              Neither theory has been 100% proven.
              Neither theory has been disproven.
              We use workable pieces of each every day.

              Ironically, the incompleteness theorem….is incomplete!

              I am not so sure about the poison either! haha.

            • grundoon

              Never mind Godel; Hubbard couldn’t axiomatize a compass and straightedge. Scientology rejects and opposes Euclid’s Common Notion 1, “things which equal the same thing also equal one another.” Hubbard calls it “A=A=A,” and to this day, Scientologists establish dominance by reciting this phrase. The first Scientologist to say A=A=A wins the argument.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              A manner of thinking begats Philosophy which is………….a sort of a guide for living.
              With that said….I can’t add 2+2 without a calculator but I love Mathematical Theorem.

              Your son’s “tool” is a huge piece of thinking….about the lives we are living.

  • Observer

    Where’s Downy? It’s almost 1:00 EST and no sign of him/her/them yet. I am disappoint.

    • Sherbet

      I was thinking the same thing, Observer. How could he/she/they abandon this overwhelmingly successful campaign??

      • Observer

        I have a new down-arrow shoop all ready to deploy, too. :-(

        • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

          Consider it a pity down-arrow cuz I want to see your shoop ….

          EDIT: Maybe “pity” is the wrong word … I just want to see the shoop ….

      • stateofcircle

        I noticed yesterday that 2 downvotes eventually turned into one. Guilt? No clue.

    • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

      It’s starting (and this time it’s not me making a play for shoop-n-share).

      • Observer

        YES!!!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/kim.obrien.775 Kim O’Brien

    Shit …Theo is still having a stroke about yesterdays post . He now wants me to talk about Obama . WHAT THE FUCK ?????! Poor hairy Greek

    • BuryTheNuts2

      He nutting up!

      • Captain Howdy

        yea, he’s definitely going marco.

    • Missionary Kid

      I almost got snagged this morning. After his sleep, he turned into a real troll. What I did was to insult him in American slang by Telling him that LRH was like Mary Baker Eddy. He didn’t know what that meant, so I told him to Google it. He told me to basically get fucked, he wasn’t going to Google anything. So I explained it to him: Mary Baker Eddy started Christian Science. LRH started $cientology. Both have science in their name, but neither is scientific.

      I also told him that I’d known about Dianetics for over 50 years, yet they hadn’t cleared a city yet, let alone a country, and I’m still waiting.

      One of your answers to him was pretty good too, about the fact that we haven’t fallen apart with his powerful words. We’re still here.

      Don’t waste any time, except to joke and degrade $cientology. Make it brief, if at all, and wait a couple of hours before responding. He’ll think you’ve lost interest, I believe.

      • http://www.facebook.com/kim.obrien.775 Kim O’Brien

        good advice ;) I must confess …it is kinda fun . I used to fuck with my litte sister by holding my finger just a inch from her and say ” i’m not touching you ..i’m not touching you ..” Then she would yell ” MOM ..Kim’s not touching me !! ” it’s kinda like that LOL . But ..i will stop .

        • Missionary Kid

          If you have contact with him, make him wait, then make your response short. He’s probably trying to put himself further up on the tone fucking scale.

          I mistakenly thought I was dealing with a somewhat rational being, but he’s, as Eric Hoffer put it, a true believer.

          I’ll bet he hasn’t been in long. He’s got the fervor of a just saved Christian.

          • hogarthian

            The ‘tone fucking scale’? or the ‘fucking tone scale’? Is it just me….. or do they present two completely different images?

            • Missionary Kid

              It’s all one: disgust with the whole idea of tone scale.

            • hogarthian

              It’s ok MK…. I was being rude ;-)

            • VickiStubing

              You do rude with real style! Impressive :D

            • Missionary Kid

              Hogarthian, I never thought you were being rude to me. I just dislike the whole tone scale as it’s set up. Instead of being a metaphorical tool, LRH and the Co$ made it absolute gospel. What a bunch of shit.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            He has been in for quite sometime. That is just how Theo is.
            I will call it enthusiastic!

            • Missionary Kid

              Thanks. He’s got the fervor, but is so clueless about the rest of the world, if DM is like that, Co$ is sure to start losing legal cases because of that misunderstanding.

              They seem to know procedure and arguments and the law quite well, but ultimately they’ll run into the higher courts, which seem to work and rule on philosophy.

              I see the same type of blind spots in some kids who’ve been home schooled by parents who’ve drunk Kool Aid of one sort or another.

    • Captain Howdy

      I saw some of his ravings earlier this morning. I’m afraid we caused the poor lad to have an apoplexy

      • Missionary Kid

        I think he’s playing a tone scale game. He’s trying to handle us, and considers it a game.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Well he is flailing and failing!

          • Missionary Kid

            Yup. He’s off the rails today.

        • sugarplumfairy

          I think you’ve hit the nail on the head, MK..

        • SP ‘Onage

          You got it, MK!

    • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

      I’m seeing down-votes!

      Is Theo aka The Observer? I don’t hang out much on Marty’s blog and am a bit unfamiliar with handles there.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        No he is still theo

      • Observer

        I’m not The Observer either. I don’t go over there because, well, life is frustrating enough.

        • Captain Howdy

          Maybe XLoK meant “The Oracle” ?

        • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

          Based on the comments the Rathbun Observer posted … that was never in question.

          • Observer

            I’ll take that as a compliment.

      • VickiStubing

        Do you mean The Oracle? That one’s a nutter in the first degree.

        Some brave soul pointed out that the pic of Marty that they don’t like Tony using is from the era of the book and The Oracle can’t stop hating enough to get the point.

        • EnthralledObserver

          Yeah that was me that pointed that out to Oracle… that dumbarse doesn’t understand context I don’t think.

    • Sidney18511

      And Theo is just crazy…over the moon…in LOVE with Marty. And LRH.

    • VickiStubing

      Y’all, I apologize for going after him. I am usually a harmless snarky gal but something about him just put me on edge. So I went and did something good in my community to snap myself back into normal mode. Whatever the heck normal is ;D

      • http://www.facebook.com/kim.obrien.775 Kim O’Brien

        man .. i still can’t get over the flashbacks i have when i see your tag . I LOVE IT ….and i like fucking with Theo .. but i have pulled back . Once he started talking about globalism, Obama , Monsanto, and scientology being the real world religion …i felt bad for the guy . Must suck to live in that head space.

        • VickiStubing

          I’m still trying to figure out how to get the Tiny Tyrant’s head in the “O” but 2 year olds have better shoop skillz than I do. Talk about bad head space OY.

          We really should know better than to play with the trolls, but he started out sounding pretty earnest. IIRC we’ve had a couple of those who start out ok but deteriorate pretty quickly. Marco was off from the beginning.

          • http://www.facebook.com/kim.obrien.775 Kim O’Brien

            remember the guy who posted video of him sitting on a dirty floor and moving his hands real fast ?? and trying to elevate ? Man ….that was sad. Plus ..he had a mullet ..not a good look

            • Captain Howdy

              Jonathon Barbera. He took down the fapping faster than the speed of light video after some of us made fun of it. That’s unfortunate because it was awesome. Here’s a vid of JB proving astral projection is “real”. Actually I miss Barbera, and I regret taking the piss out of him.

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5bW4nPue9E

            • VickiStubing

              TY Captain! I couldn’t remember Jonathon’s name. Can’t forget the flapping vid, tho. Oh, I wouldn’t worry too much about raining on his parade–reality was bound to come knocking at his door sooner or later.

            • Kim O’Brien

              why do i have an urge to shave him ? Like all over ?? never mind

    • SP ‘Onage

      Meh, these people are so melodramatic.

  • Still_On_Your_Side

    Hubbard seems to have adopted some classicist notions of love, including “agape,” love of mankind ( although apparently he thinks it is unrealistic, if I understood that correctly). Also, it makes sense that couples would have close, lasting relationships if both are committed to Scientology, and if both are audited. It seems that infidelity would be rare because the e meter would pick it up. But, as far as the church of Scientology goes, it seems that love has no place in marriage. Divorce is ordered if one spouse is “bad” or leaves the church, and it separates families for years.

    On another note, but not really off-topic, I watched an interesting episode of “M Squad,” a 1950s t.v. show, last night. (“The Healer,” http://youtu.be/UZ68eVhdMG4) It was about someone, not a doctor, who claimed to help people with depression and other mental problems. The drama centered upon how much harm this person was doing by not providing the right kind of therapy, including institutionalization. It really depicts rather well the 1950s attitude of psychiatrists toward unlicensed therapy. It also was an eye opener as to how little treatment was available for depression, paranoia, etc. This was the environment Hubbard was dealing with in the 50s, and clearly the basis for his hatred of psychiatrists. Since the 50s, psychiatrists have lost the monopoly on treating mental illness. Psychologists, counselors, and physicians, all are allowed to provide therapy. In fact, the more I learn about auditing, it is clear that, on the positive side, it is a form of a therapy. However, it is also dangerous because it is extremely judgmental, more and more abusive, files are not confidential, and it is being used for blackmail purposes. As people have posted here, when they have left the church and sought psychological help, they were shocked at how supportive and non-judgmental the counselors/doctors were. While in the 1950s, psychiatrists may have tried to shut Hubbard down for the unlicensed practice of medicine, the world has changed. The intense propaganda war being waged by the church against psychiatry is more and more nothing more than an attempt to keep members in line. Children are told “wog” children have drugs crammed down their throat, adults are told psychiatrists will stick electrodes to their heads and “fry” their brains. I find it interesting that Hubbard allowed families to audit each other. Does Miscavige allow this? I doubt it, think of how much money the church will lose if this is widespread.

    • Missionary Kid

      Well put.

    • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

      What’s sad is that of the various words used by the Greeks that English translates as “love”, agape (or love based on principle) should be the easiest for anyone to display.

      It can be most simply manifested by being nice to other people for the simple fact that you should be nice to other people.

      If LRH did believe such simple love was unrealistic it was a monumental disservice to everyone.

      Without believing in love based on principle, demonstrating love based on brother (or sisterly) affection (aka philia), sexual attraction (eros), or familial bonds (storge) is compromised. Why feel other forms of love you refuse the most basic?

      NOTE: Apologies for any typos … 3rd century Koine Greek translator module is down and I’m going off memory.

      • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

        Two down votes for love … okay …

        • aquaclara

          …worse than down-arrowing birthday wishes and cakes…..

          • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

            Well … when an evil galactic over-lord responsible for 75 million years of misery starts waxing on about love what else can he expect …

          • hogarthian

            worse than down arrowing trepidatious kittens in corners….

      • Still_On_Your_Side

        It is interesting that both you and I have two down arrows. I think that is sad considering we both are addressing agape. This leads me to believe that the concept of love is enturbulating for whoever is objecting to our posts. Let me say this to that person, there is a great deal of love for mankind outside of the church. Most people will stop to help a stranger, as an automatic response. Most people spend their days working to support their families, and still have time to spend with their children. In fact, most people go through their day without being physically, emotionally, or mentally abused. Abuse is not a pre-requisite to having an eternity. If you ask for help, 99 percent of the regular posters on this blog will help you, including me. Mature adults can agree to disagree, and still be friends, or colleagues. If you are in the church, ask yourself when did eternity develop a dollar admission price. If you have left, why not post a written objection so we know why you think a down arrow is appropriate?

    • Get Chutney Love

      Dramas involving psychologists and psychiatrists were popular back then. One of Gore Vidals’ teleplays was based on a historical American case involving what were then known as an “alienist’ and multiple personalities on the part of the patient.

  • mook

    apparently the former KCET Studios in LA are being used for the Sea Org. also, can anybody do some digging re: DreamWorks and the CoS?
    https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/kcet-plans-scientologists-getting-internships-at-dreamworks-according-to-new-sea-org-recruit.111260/#post-2312619

    • Missionary Kid

      KCET got themselves in financial trouble, so they had to sell it. Long story. I don’t know anything about Dreamworks.

  • Mrs Libnish

    I’m sorry this is off topic but if you haven’t looked at that Scilon Celebrity blog, go take a peek. I read the “About” section and this one is very interesting as well:

    http://scientologycelebrity.wordpress.com/fraser-kee-scott/

    Anon in the house? Yes, I think so!

    • Spackle Motion

      Interesting strategy on the Anon plants. Even if it is not true it is lulzy to make the Midget and his minions paranoid about it.

    • dbloch7986

      Hey there, I know that I have posted a link to this blog before and as a result was remiss in my duty to Tony as a personal friend.

      This blog took some pretty nasty shots at him and at t1kk, who I have not talked to a lot, but still consider a friend.

      If you want to read it, I think that’s fine, but I don’t think we should further promote it. The same way that some of us treat Marty’s blog. I know a lot of us read it, but we do not make a point to regularly promote it.

      I’m not being accusative or anything, don’t take it that way. I just think that we should leave this one alone for a while and let that play out.

      • Mrs Libnish

        Respect. I took it as more of a “tip off”, but I can see where you are coming from.

      • Espiando

        And this bitch went after Synthia Fagen as well. The Fagens are off limits. They are under my personal protection. And you don’t want to screw with me.

      • Davka

        Looks like it’s been played – this looks like it was posted recently. Huh?

        UPDATE: We appreciate the support & appreciation from everyone who has been reading this blog. Due to the fact that one of Tony’s friends has informed us that Tony Ortega is against our blog, we cannot in good faith continue. Haters are one thing, but when one of those haters is a major critic whose friends have been spewing lies about us, then there is no point. We do not seek Ortega’s approval – our aim was simply to report the facts and everything that we hear and read during our work. This is not a “cry for attention” – Tony and his friends can believe whatever they want. All we did was report what was discussed (more like lectured & commanded) at an OSA meeting about Tony Ortega. While we respect Tony, this has taught us to forget about expecting the support of establishment critics, and to continue our work in private until we leave. We’re just the messengers, and we got shot down. We only need the truth to set us free – and of course, the Justice System. We will have our day in court with more than enough dox to make a difference and we are going to win and drown the Church in the paperwork of its own infamy.

  • Observer

    It’s okay, Downy. We don’t hate you and have no evil intent toward you. We just hope that you’ll come out of the darkness and into the light.

    • aquaclara

      Observer, you crack me up with these funny pics. Keep ‘em coming! Thanks!

    • Sherbet

      Observer, it was worth waiting for.

    • Xenu, Lord of Kobol

      The Observer shoops and scores!

    • Exterrier

      cool. ok if I down arrow just as a gag?

  • Sam Freeman

    “Infidelity is rare, but not unheard of.”
    I could give you a VERY long list of adulterous OT VII’s and VIII’s in the Clearwater area. But I won’t. Just because I’m a nice person. Just sayin’

    • dbloch7986

      I affirm this statement in the LA area as well.

      • Espiando

        I want you two to slip me those lists so that I can publish them.

  • 1subgenius

    From Marty:

    “The book that the Scientology critic cult is attempting to censor more vigorously than the church of Scientology is now available in Kindle format,”

    • Captain Howdy

      I think I’ll wait until it shows up at Buck a Book.

      • Espiando

        Why waste a perfectly good buck?

        • N. Graham

          I plan on reading it. But I won’t buy it. I’ll check it out at the library!

          • Yeppir

            They put his crap in the library?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I was wondering that too? Rully?

          • Observer

            Is it even going to be a physical book? I was under the impressionthat his books are self published ebooks.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Yeah, hard copy on prime is like $20.00. 10 on kindle.

              Edit: I have a good friend who is a writer. Her stuff is all over amazon. e-book and hard copy. She self publishes about half her work.

          • EnthralledObserver

            Ditto, no way that swine is getting my hubby’s money…
            :p

      • 1subgenius

        Its not on Pirate Bay. Hmmmm. Neither of them is.

        • Captain Howdy

          I got the last one off a link I found on WWP. Give it a few days.

    • Observer

      Hahaha! Marty has a big fat MU on censor–he apparently thinks it means “they don’t agree with everything I say”, or possibly “they won’t acknowledge my greatness”.

      • Espiando

        He’s still got that Scientology valence when it comes to criticism. A critic is by definition an SP, and what kind of suppression does a Suppressive Person engage in vis-a-vis a work of literature? Censorship.

        You can take the boy out of the cult…

        • Observer

          Nice. Marty needs to lose L. Ron “The Hypocrite” Hubbard’s Bizarro World dictionary. LRH was one of the most breathtakingly blatant hypocrites of the 20th century. He snooped on and censored his followers’ very thoughts through auditing and his system of pejorative labels and draconian punishments for disapproved thoughts and “intention”.

        • 1subgenius

          If you were brainwashed, would you know it?

          • hogarthian

            EXACTLY! He doesn’t know. How frustrating for us all eh?

        • hogarthian

          ooooooo…. there’s a typo in that last sentence just waiting to happen!

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Go ahead and DOOOOOO ITTTTTTTTTTTT

      • Phil McKraken

        He’s got an MU on cult too.

    • Sherbet

      You see why I can’t read Marty’s blog? If this is “the Scientology critic cult,” then I’ve seen not a hint of anyone, Tony or any of the Bunker posters, saying the book should be censored. Are some people waiting for a different book from Marty? Oh, yes! But this one still will be of value as an inside look and further indictment of cos. How can any author think his book will be met with unequivocal acceptance, especially when it deals with highly emotional issues and subjective memories? Marty seems to define “censorship” as being called out for what readers (and readers of reviews) consider inaccuracies or exaggerations. That’s the equivalent of calling every church critic a “bigot.” Just a knee-jerk defense mechanism.

      • BosonStark

        He’s just trying to boost sales by trying to reach every last indie in loonville. Maybe he should put a volcano on the cover?

        “Censor” is funny to say though, because what we would like is for Marty to stop censoring himself, and tell more of the full truth. Yes, we here in the anti-Scientology cult, are against censorship when it comes to Marty and his Martians. Just let your full crazy out of the bag, and tell us what you really did — that’s all.

        • http://www.facebook.com/kim.obrien.775 Kim O’Brien

          LOL …more people at THIS blog said they would buy the book than over at his blog. He is up to a whopping 50 comments ..and about 10 of them are from people here …and even some of those said they would buy the book . Once he went after Derek and told him to ” grow up” and “buy my book ” …i think he crossed a line . Derek is a symbol for ALL of the children and families that were destroyed by following DM’s orders ( and LRH’s orders..you know …the ones that Marty followed ) and his flat out distain /disregard for him …i felt as sick as i did when i first red about what he did to Annie B. The man is blank ..he cares more about his dog than showing …hell ..even FAKING compassion for kids like Derek. I have no tolerance for it . As a mother …it breaks my heart for Derek . He reached out …he put his heart on his sleeve …and Marty shit on him …along with that Oracle twat .

          • Captain Howdy

            I love that he’s so desperate for comments, he’s posting stuff he wouldn’t have, even a few months ago.

            • http://www.facebook.com/kim.obrien.775 Kim O’Brien

              wow …i was banned a long time ago ..i wonder if i should give it another shot ? meh …never mind …i can see him POURING over these comments and screaming ” I am being oppressed!! …I am being oppressed!! ” .

            • VickiStubing

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxGqcCeV3qk

              But Marty could never be this fun.

            • 1subgenius

              He’s cracking up.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              So do I.

            • hogarthian

              Yup, I’ve noticed that.

          • EnthralledObserver

            I managed to get a very similar post to thisoff to Marty directly before he banned me. So he knows…

        • Sherbet

          I’m so naive, that I find it hard to accept the sales ploy. To me, Marty’s nose is indeed out of joint.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            I am convinced it is a sales ploy! Marty is too cagey for it to be anything less.
            Don’t ever underestimate his capacity for subterfuge!

            I don’t hate Marty. I don’t even dislike Marty.

            I would also take my chances with a grizzly bear first!
            (OK, that may be slight hyperbole…but you know what I am saying)!

    • And I don’t rent cars!

      I posted this a few minutes ago on yesterday’s story about M. Rathbun’s book but since you brought it up today, I thought I’d risk going off today’s topic by reposting here. I had written:

      Interesting… M. Rinder has a ‘Books’ section on his blog but he is deafeningly silent about “Memoirs of a Scientology Warrior” – yet M. Rathbun’s other books were all posted there.
      http://www.mikerindersblog.org

      Putting on my “tin hat” here:
      I just checked M. Rathbun’s blog and he has two posts dated May 29, 2013.

      This is the first May 29th post:
      http://markrathbun.wordpress.c

      “One Good Reason To Read ‘Scientology Warrior’

      Posted on May 29, 2013 by martyrathbun09 | 128 Comments

      Now for one reason you might want to read Memoirs of a Scientology Warrior. Tony Ortega hates the book, characterizing it as a love letter to the cult: Ortega’s take.

      Rattling both ends of the extreme is an indicia of hitting the sweet spot.

      Reference: The Great Middle Path Revisited.”

      And M. Rinder posted the following:
      “mrinder | May 29, 2013 at 8:55 am | Reply

      “Perfect!”

      And this is the post M. Rathun referred to at the bottom of his post:
      “Reference: The Great Middle Path Revisited.”
      http://markrathbun.wordpress.c

      “The Great Middle Path Revisited

      Posted on July 22, 2012 by martyrathbun09 | 320 Comments

      For those new to the blog, I recommend an essay I posted almost three years ago titled The Great Middle Path redux. I discussed then the idea that the extreme sides of the Scientology spectrum in many ways reflect one another. The zealots on the Miscavige side and the ‘critics’ on the ‘book burner’ side nurture one another as convenient evils to make life combative enough to be interesting.

      I once heard a pundit remark that probably the most straight, truthful news from the Middle East comes from the Al Jazeera news agency. He reckoned that based on an objective study of international news reportage on the region over a several year period. He cited as corroboration for that analysis the fact that Al Jazeera was the only news outfit in history to be bombed by both of the opposing sides of a military conflict.

      If you check out the reader reviews on Amazon books for What Is Wrong With Scientology you will see that most who care to comment express strong feelings one way or the other about the book. A lot of people seem to either hate it or love it. Add to the mix both extremes of the Scientology spectrum. On the one side are the anti-Marty sites, authored and edited by David Miscavige. On the other side is the most prominent and persistent of Scientology ridiculers, Tony Ortega at the Village Voice.

      The “church” of Scientology writes the following about What is Wrong With Scientology?:

      He is now taking it upon himself to tell all who will listen “what is wrong with Scientology.” Real Scientologists recognize these interpretations as an effort to dilute, disperse, and render unworkable the truths and principles of Scientology Technology which is, after all is said and done, one of Rathbun’s primary destructive goals – to make Scientology unattainable by scattering it to the wind. And real Scientologists know that the bulk of Rathbun’s latest effort is comprised of what L. Ron Hubbard himself carefully specified as Suppressive Acts, intended to harm others.

      On the other extreme Tony Ortega, who has spent seventeen years attempting to make nothing of Scientology, calls What Is Wrong With Scientology?: a ‘predictable mass of Hubbard apologetics’, a ‘bundle of contradictions’, [the apologies are for a religion that is] ‘permeated with sickness’, ‘expensive malarky’, [attempts to pass off] ‘Eastern woo woo as ‘scientific certainty’, and the defense is a bunch of ‘new age happy talk.’

      It reads to me like a shade of the Al Jazeera effect.

      On the one hand I am accused on attempting to destroy everything L. Ron Hubbard stood for.

      On the other hand, I am accused of being Hubbard’s greatest defender.

      Those who have read the book and have followed the blog for long might understand why this reaction from the extremes pleases me. It makes me feel like I must have hit the ball right in the sweet spot.”

      And this is M. Rathbun’s second post of May 29:
      http://markrathbun.wordpress.c

      “Scientology Warrior’ Now On Kindle

      Posted on May 29, 2013 by martyrathbun09 | 44 Comments

      The book that the Scientology critic cult is attempting to censor more vigorously than the church of Scientology is now available in Kindle format, “Memoirs of a Scientology Warrior” on Kindle.”

      I suspect M. Rathbun’s second post of May 29th is meant to sweeten up and expand the “sweet spot” even further and please himself even more – the cat is licking his whiskers now…

      He knows.. and gloats… that we Bunkerites (you know, we in the Ortega Cult) have now unwittingly increased his stats/book sales and is further inflaming the reaction from the “extremes” by intentionally goading his “critics” with the word “CENSOR” to create more controversy, knowing that inciting controversy and scandal is considered “good” marketing strategy these days? (By what I consider to be unethical and amoral people. You know, like the sociopaths of this world.)

      At this point in my conspiracy theorizing, I wonder if ‘kindly’ sending Tony an advance copy might not have been part of his strategy as well…

      Damn! Double Damn!!

      And I suspect M. Rinder is in on it judging by his one word response, “Perfect!” to M. Rathbun’s “…why this reaction from the extremes pleases me. It makes me feel like I must have hit the ball right in the sweet spot.”

      OK, ‘tin hat off.’

      P.S. If we formed a band, would “The Extremes” be a good name? And if the ‘anti-critics’, from an unnamed blog, formed a band, would “The Sociopaths” fill a stadium? But I digress…

      P.S. Hope the reference links are working. Disqus is not very cooperative – the links become plain text and then hyperlinks, then back to plain text… then back to……

      In any case, it really doesn’t matter as I copied and pasted all the text the links referred to for readers’ convenience.

      • aquaclara

        Marty intentionally manipulated both all of us, plus his blindly loyal followers. Well, now I know exactly what those “communication skills” are that the cult holds so dear. Bullying to intentionally control and harm others, suppressing open dialogue, lying, and of course, propping themselves up as the masters of some fake universe by denigrating everybody who gets in their way.

        Good luck with your life, Marty. Because I am sure that someday, you will see exactly what a billion years’ afterlife REALLY feels like, when you find yourself in a hell that’s hotter than anything your damn volcanoes can spew out.

        Oreos, I’m stealing your quote! F*ck the cult. F*ck Marty. oh, and F*ck his worthless book.

      • Phil McKraken

        Here’s what stands out in that little piece by Rathbun: Not once does he write about the content of his book or the content of the critiques of it. The whole thing is about extremes and middles and Al Jazeera and whatever. You might say it’s a pile of … generalities.

      • grundoon

        Marty cost the cult several million dollars last year. He’s done more to hurt them than a whole boatload of anons.

    • Spackle Motion

      Marty is such an idiot. If he calls us a cult then he obviously has no contextual meaning for that word. And that is a word that he throws around like paper airplanes directed at what he calls “corporate Scientology”.

      Like most Scientologists, he’s not able to keep his arguments from being double speak, meaningless and circular.

  • dbloch7986

    With regards to love in Scientology: The doctrines of Scientology and the group are always put before personal relationships. If you are madly in love with someone, and the group (or your ethics officer) feels that your love is hindering them or your ability to contribute, then you are supposed to stop loving that person.

    There is a triangle in Scientology called “ARC”. It stands for “Affinity, Reality and Communication”.

    Reality is basically how much you agree with someone and communication is…well communication.

    Affinity is the area into which love is buried. The terms ‘love’ and ‘affinity’ are interchangeable, with the latter being used almost 100% of the time between Scientologists. Affinity was defined (and thus love re-defined) by Hubbard as “how willing you are to share your personal space with someone”. So in other words, if someone doesn’t gross you out you feel “affinity” for them.

    Typically a Scientology child does not feel “love” towards parents. He feels “affinity”. Affinity is a disposable commodity in Scientology and can be as easily done away with as an old photo of your ex. So you see how “love” is surreptitiously removed from Scientologists’ minds. Instead they are taught that they are capable of having the same “affinity” for a stranger sitting on the bus next to them as they are to the woman who carried, birthed and took care of them through their formative years.

    It’s a sad state of affairs, really. “Love” is one of many things that differentiates Scientology from all the other “wacky religions” to which trolls on the internets like to draw comparisons. Most religions teach love and compassion and Scientology erases it.

    • Still_On_Your_Side

      Thank you for this very insightful comment. I think you have captured the biggest Achilles Heel the Church of Scientology has. Most people who are looking for answers are also looking for loving relationships and a loving environment. The church makes a show of being very warm and welcoming. The common perception is that this warmth lasts only as long as your dollars keep flowing. It is interesting that Miscavige, and other leaders of the church, think nothing of spewing “f**k this, s***t that” and YSCOHB, etc., but the word “love” will freak them out.

      • DeElizabethan

        Because they have no heart!

    • Captain Howdy

      Why would scientologists feel love for each other? According to Hubbard they are just random thetans occupying random meat bodies. Your children aren’t really “your” children. That’s one of the reasons it seems so easy for some scientologists to disconnect. Your relatives are merely other pod people.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        That sounds so cold, but it is really quite true.

      • Exterrier

        Yes. It was cold there. Especially “friends” were not really friends. It came to be about upward mobility on the bridge, and the only love was for Ron. Big Father.

        • EnthralledObserver

          That evaluation just gave me the chills… *shudder*

      • grundoon

        If you follow the teachings of a sociopath, you can be trained to become a sociopath too.

    • MissCandle

      That’s a sad story.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Breakin my heart again, Derek. Here, have another warm and fuzzy …..love peakin’ out

      [IMG]http://i40.tinypic.com/f4nz81.jpg[/IMG]

      • hogarthian

        Is that an albino kangaroo?

      • Captain Howdy

        awwwwww..just for that you get a song your Holiness.

        http://youtu.be/H1FbAsFX8sA

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Thanks. Now who can look at that picture and listen to that song and not start tapping their toes and smiling like an idiot.

      • dbloch7986

        Awww thank you

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Derek, I hope you know that you will never be disposable here. You are brave, honest and erudite.
      Despite what you have experienced, you have become a fine young man. I would be proud if you were my son.

      • dbloch7986

        Thank you! I hope one day my mom can be proud of me too.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          One day she will be able to throw it off and be your Mom again Derek.

          Please forgive her when she does.

    • Sidney18511

      I am deeply proud of the well spoken man that you have become. I wish you all the great things that life has to offer and I just feel that you have an important purpose in life you have yet to discover. As the mother of 3 daughters I would be proud to call you my son.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        I will flip a coin for him?
        WAIT..
        first….
        Derek? Do you do yard work?

        • dbloch7986

          For five bucks.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            We have got to get you to shake off the Sea Org pay expectations!
            You should see my weeds!!!!

            • dbloch7986

              Ohhhh, you didn’t say you were growing weed. Now you need to pay me to keep my mouth shut so……10 bucks.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              If I was growing weed …….NO ONE would be in my garden but me!!!!!!

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              hehe. BuryTheNuts2 would BuryYourAss!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Hey, I “might” share!
              I am a giver!

    • sister wendy

      Hubbard was so NOT into the Greek definitions of love….too bad

      • Exterrier

        Hmmm…. I don’t know. Was Narcissus Greek? Ron was always into that sort of love. But it was too bad for the Scientologists. That is the greatest destruction in the cult that I noticed, the absence of love….. and no sense of the sacred in any form. Very cold.

        • sister wendy

          Ha ha! You’re so right. Narcissus was Greek;) I was thinking of all the beautiful and varied 5 definitions or variety of loves : Eros- emotional and erotic love, philos- friendship love, Storgy- love for a dependent (do cats and pets fit here?), Agape-unconditional love, Mania- more like lust. You’d think with all his interest in philosophers and history, there would be something about this classical information bleeding through instead of his limited “discovery”. I don’t think he could have been too much like Narcissus, in the classical sense, or wouldn’t he have been better looking after his teeth….and that horrible growth. I guess he did believe in air-brushing;)

  • Cloud

    First time poster but I’ve been reading Tony’s work every day for a almost 2 years. My parents have been scientologists since the 1970s. Growing up my home life was terrible. I was physically and verbally abused by my mom on a daily basis from a very small child until I was in my teens. She also cheated on my dad numerous times with different men. I think scientologists keep those goings-on private.

    • http://valerierossonline.com/ Valerie Ross

      Cloud, I agree with you. It’s not advertised but infidelity, and abuse both physical and sexual were rampant while I was there. Been there got the medal. Sorry Vance you’re 100% wrong on that one. I’ve never seen as much sexual aberration in the “wog” world as I experienced in Scientology and Sea Org.

      • Espiando

        How much of that perception, though, is just perception based on the standards being stated by the group? We get all giggly every time some evangelist is caught either trolling around for hookers or with the meat in his mouth, and that’s because of the juxtaposition of practice and preaching. From the stories of the Exes who were involved at the time, it seems that Scientologists were willing participants in widespread social trends (pot-smoking on the Apollo, putting the “swing” in “Swinging Seventies”, etc.) at about the same rate as the comparative wog population.

        It just stands out more because these are supposed to be The Most Ethical People On The Planet who are supposed to control those impulses. It’s Peyton Place rather than Plato’s Retreat.

        • aquaclara

          While some of this just might reflect social trends, I think there is much more here. First, the secrecy and skullduggery of the cult offer cover to both abusers and cheaters. Then mix in the pressure-cooker environment, the complete lack of proper oversight of children and the absence of the typical social structures that normally guide morals and ethics.
          Take this further, and you have a population that tends to be young and more likely to play around, and that awful, inappropriate and overcrowded dormitory environment that mixes all ages together.
          Oh, and no punishment for bad behavior. Now, the cheating – that’s bad. But the abuse that was allowed to knowingly continue – that’s criminal.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            and scientologists are forbidden to go to the police or appropriate authorities or advocacy groups. There are all kinds of retributions if someone even tries to do it and members have valid reasons to be afraid to try. For children, they believe they will lose their family and their friends and their home. They are often quite correct.

            • aquaclara

              “And they are often correct. “. YES.

            • Exterrier

              Yes, that is true. I posted a little horror story I knew of up above somewhere. Some kids I knew were pretty hardened, too.

        • http://valerierossonline.com/ Valerie Ross

          I did not *perceive* any of the physical or sexual abuse which occurred to me while in, I LIVED it. I have not been physically or sexually abused since I freed myself of all vestiges of Scientology. That’s been over 30 years. People in the upper echelons were allowed to do lots of things without fear of retribution. Those of us to whom it was being done knew well enough to keep our mouths shut as we would have been the ones punished. Judging from those who are coming forward these days, not much has changed on the inside.

          • VickiStubing

            Valerie, I am so very very sorry that happened to you. I hope you are in a good place now. It sounds like it’s too late to pursue your abusers, and I’m also sorry if that’s true. Wow, my heart aches for you. Thank you for speaking up and hanging around. I always enjoy your comments. :D

            • http://valerierossonline.com/ Valerie Ross

              Thanks for the kind words and yes I am in a good place now. No sense in pursuing my abusers, I really think those if them who are still alive are doing an excellent job of punishing themselves. The best revenge is living well.

    • dbloch7986

      Cloud, I had a similar childhood. The problem is that children are treated like adults in Scientology, despite the fact that we did not have defense mechanisms in place to prevent us from being seriously psychologically scarred.

      Things like infidelity, financial troubles, arguments, confessions, death, sex, etc. are all shared openly with children and spoken about in front of children. The truth is that children need some level of censorship. Some concepts just don’t make sense to kids and forcing those concepts upon them too young causes serious repercussions later in life.

      • Still_On_Your_Side

        Did all of the cult parents who treat their kids like adults develop amnesia about the wonders of childhood? I can’t believe every single one of them had such a bad childhood that they would allow their children to be robbed of a childhood. Watch the videos of all the cat/dog/elephant/lion/chimp mothers who adopt babies of other species and nurture them. What is in the koolaid that destroys such a basic instinct?

        • ze moo

          You answered your own question. The poison kool-aid became more of a priority then being a decent human. Hell, decent mammal…

        • dbloch7986

          ze moo has it. Yes they do tend to forget. Not so much because they want to, but because they are taught to believe their childhood was wrong. Cognitive dissonance kicks in and they do assume they had a horrible childhood and insist that mine was wonderful.

          It’s pretty crazy. I have shown, and you have seen some of the ass backwards comments from Scientologists at Marty’s blog. The crazy of Scientology knows no bounds.

      • Exterrier

        Yes, that is so sensible, Derek. You might be a good counsellor yourself one day. Many don’t appreciate that necessary sheltering, even outside of scieno families. My daughter got a good amount of censorship….. we did not even watch the Simpsons and especially South Park, and she is a grown woman now, and says it was right…she was not raised a scienkid.

        That is why I would not let my daughter play with the sceino kids when she was eleven, and I was an adult who got involved for a while. There was something hurt, jaded, confused kind of sordid about them. They spoke in obscenities, and kind of had a dark way about them that was hard to pin down. And all the families were divorced or troubled…. I once, for five minutes, thought it would be nice to have her in a private scieno school, but when I looked them over, it sort of looked creepier than the conventional ones. There was no “kid filter” in their world, and when it got to them and they would act out a bit, they were threatened with “Ethics”. I bet most of those kids walked away from the church as soon as they legally could, if the sea org did not trick them.

        thanks for your frank posts.

    • VickiStubing

      Welcome, Cloud! I’m glad you feel safe enough to start sharing. And Thank You for doing so. As a never-in, I can only imagine how hard it must be to even consider posting your personal story. It is nice to virtually meet you. :D

    • aquaclara

      I’m sorry, Cloud. That’s awful, and definitely not something a child should ever have to deal with….I hope you’ll keep posting….
      Wishing you much happiness!

    • http://www.facebook.com/kim.obrien.775 Kim O’Brien

      hugs to you cloud ….just sit a feel a really big hug from us …you deserve it .

      • BuryTheNuts2

        You are so sweet and patient today!
        Who are you?

        • Sherbet

          Ha! I was thinking the same thing. Kim must be getting some GREAT workouts at the gym. ;-)

          • BuryTheNuts2

            it is the cross fit!!!
            and an extra bowl :”)

            • Kim O’Brien

              Hey …I resemble that remark !! ;) ..and yes …i did go to crossfit today …then i went to the store and got hit on ….man …my tits look great in this shirt ;)

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I love you too KIm.
              My tits look great today too.
              Some thirty year old geek followed me into the pool at the gym. Whoo hoo (and creepy)
              HIGH FUCKING Five.
              Doesn’t it feel great to be HOT!!!!

            • Kim O’Brien

              i am even starting to see a bit of a six pack ;) …and the G-13 strain is THE BEST ~ just in case you need any suggestions

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I need suggestions…g-13? tell me more?

            • Kim O’Brien

              G-13 …the BEST …also Bubba Kush …and Blueberry .

            • BuryTheNuts2

              gotosleep!
              I can barely run….but I sure fuckin try? !!! but at 54 i am a pussy!!!!

            • Kim O’Brien

              i dont run at crossfit ..i have torn my achilles skiing so i get to pass on the running and these evil things called burpees . Seriously …try it

    • Observer

      Welcome, Cloud!

    • N. Graham

      Welcome Cloud! Although you’ve actually been here awhile. Glad you “grabbed the cans” and started writing. Sounds like you might have some interesting stories.

    • MissCandle

      Welcome and keep sharing!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Thanks for joining the conversation. So, so sorry to hear about your childhood. From the 70′s? Curious if they were public or sea org or mixture. Probably knew them. Hope you’ve found your way to a happy, healthy life.

      • Cloud

        They have always been public, but considering there are about 7 publics still around who originated in the 70s I probably shouldn’t divulge that kind of information about them. Thanks for the warm welcome everyone. I am squeeing over here as I feel I “know” you all from reading the comments for so long.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Thanks, and don’t say anything ’bout nuthin’ that you don’t feel comfortable revealing.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            In fact, Please err on the side of caution.
            Davey does have the blog monitored.

            EDIT: HI YOU LITTLE ASSHAT TWERP.

    • hogarthian

      Welcome Cloud. I’m new too. All I do is swear. I’m sure that your contributions, should you decide to make any more, will be way more valuable.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        But you swear very well!
        It is downright liberating!

        Or maybe that is my grapefruit martini!!!

    • SP ‘Onage

      Welcome, Cloud! :)

    • DeElizabethan

      Welcome Cloud! Wow 2 years watching, pretty good, and now you can join in, bravo. Hugs.

    • EnthralledObserver

      Welcome, Cloud… so glad you decided to take the leap into posting. It feels good to have your say and inject your opinion into the conversations.

  • BosonStark

    Based on the merits of the ideas in Dianutty alone, the whole thing would have collapsed by 1951. It was the control in the cult itself that created people deluded enough to believe that they could audit other people at home, or even audit off their own BTs in the upper OT levels.

    Of the few dozen people who were successful with Dianutty and never joined the cult, most were mentally ill. In general, the practice of freelance Dianutty was discouraged because the cult couldn’t suck any more money that way. Yes, it made clams like Heber feel good to pretend that there were millions of people out there auditing each other for free in the parlor using Dr. Hubtard’s technology.

    Let’s say Hubbard had given up Dianutty and not started Scientology, how many people would be doing Dianutty today? About as many as are interested in orgone therapy perhaps?

    • Espiando

      Bos: It did collapse in 1951. Diarrhetics was a fad, and fads die. Remember, Hubtard sold off the whole schmeer to that guy in Wichita at one point (and eventually bought it back). By all rights, it should have died. The fact that there were less than three dozen people at the PDC Lectures was an indicator.

      Why it survived…I’ve always assumed that Hubtard did one piece of Sex Magick with Parsons that worked: a deal with the Devil.

      • BosonStark

        I gnu dat, about the collapse. I didn’t no dat part about the sex magick doe.

      • Still_On_Your_Side

        I think the reason the cult survived past the 60s is the explosive anti-war movement which created a generation that wanted to save the world. It became the norm to want to save humanity. Hubbard was in the right place at the right time. When the church “forgot” that it grew because people joined to save humanity, and instead became fixated on money, the Orgs emptied out, and recruitment slowed to next to nothing. It’s hard to convince someone you are out to save the planet when the halls are empty and the only people around are those with their hands in your wallet.

        What’s really crazy is that Miscavife et al are imitating the robber barons of the late 19th century. Dirty tricks, war on the competition, fair game, etc. There were many laws passed in the 20th Century to prevent this kind of activity. The Church is getting away with it because of the religious facade. The moment that crumbles, the entire game will be up, and you can bet there will be new laws to prevent any church from going this direction again.

        • Espiando

          The Sixties are irrelevant. The cult should have, by all rights, died completely before Eisenhower was elected. That’s where the deal with the Devil comes into play.

          • Still_On_Your_Side

            Why didn’t it? Was it funded or backed by someone or something?

          • BuryTheNuts2

            E,
            I don’t think the sixties were irrelevant at all with Scientology. I think Hubbard maximized that decade as far as honing his “bullshit craft”.
            I think what he did in the sixties led to the “Scientology is cool” period that happened in the seventies. He also captured disaffected youth and made them his army.
            I think he saw a huge opportunity there and seized it.
            Just my opinion

            • Espiando

              What I meant by the Sixties not being relevant isn’t that it was irrelevant. It certainly was. I was saying that it was irrelevant to the original argument. Scientology and Dianetics shouldn’t have been able to make the 1960s. LRH should have been forced back into writing SF and would be regarded today as someone who’s, at best, on the second tier of the great authors of that era like his buddies Heinlein and Van Vogt.

              There is no good explanation for how he kept this scam going long enough for the counterculture to catch up with it and give it coolness. Deal With The Devil is as possible as anything sociological.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Understood E.
              I always enjoy talking to you Mr. fearless anon.
              (I am just a wussy anon)

          • hogarthian

            I have to agree with BTN… I think they were not only relevant but crucial. All the elements that a cult needed to thrive came together in some kind of perfect shitstorm in the sixties and seventies.

            • Captain Howdy

              If you read comments by the crazy “Oracle’ on Marty’s blog this person keeps saying that the folks who got into scientology did so because they were already into the occult & paranormal, and from what I’ve seen this was definitely true mostly during the 60′s & 70′s when the true core of CofS was formed.

            • hogarthian

              Absolutely.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Scientology has always been about the occult. From day one.

        • Sidney18511

          Also, there was the draft and becoming a minister got kids out of that clusterfuck and into the Scientology clusterfuck.

          • Still_On_Your_Side

            I forgot that, good point!

        • ze moo

          I think it unlikely that any laws to govern cults pretending to be religions will ever be passed in the US. The first amendment is taken very seriously and the US has almost always left ‘religions’ to the marketplace to police. You have to have a solid record of inurement and ripping off semi-senile grandmas to get legal action.

          Dianetics became scientology because enough people got hooked on ‘auditing’ and thought they could make good money by getting others to ‘hold the cans’. That was the start of the ‘Amway of alien brain cootie exorcism’. Those auditors became the nucleus of scientology when Lroon took it back in 57. All of the rest of 50′s anti-communist, anti-nuk-lee-ur, sanest people who can save you from the mushroom clouds stuff was just window dressing for real business model of paying for auditing.

          It did bring in people who hoped it could make a sane nice world. Those people left scientology long ago, hopefully wiser for the experience.

          The allure of being an auditor still exists, it is the reason the indies exist. A cash business that can easily be kept ‘off the books’ is the american dream. The indies just don’t charge as much as the ‘official’ auditors because they don’t have the overhead of paying lots to the IAS and Miscavige. The so called spiritual movements of the 60′s was just a fad that Lrooon and the gang took advantage of.

          As deep throat said, ‘follow the money’. Money is reason CO$ does everything.

          • Still_On_Your_Side

            I don’t disagree about the “money is all” fixation, but churches do get into trouble when they get greedy and think they are better at making money than Wall Street. Then the church usually sacrifices a few people, and promises to clean up its act. Baker comes to mind. There has never been anything like the CoS, however. The number of laws it is breaking, combined with its wholesale violation of the IRS agreement, is truly astonishing. The IRS will not go after them on their own. If there were enough private lawsuits alleging fraud that prevailed, and if a few State AGs started investigating the fundraising practices, the IRS could and would move. The church has the privilege of tax exemption as long as it doesn’t commit fraud, and fraud is proven. The First Amendment provides the right to religious freedom, tax exemption, however, is a government privilege that can be taken away. Just like the CoS, the US wants its taxes.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Here’s the cliff notes on the history. Note that there were more Dianetic customers in 1951 when it was dying out and in debt, than most orgs anywhere today have in their halls. Don Purcell bought all the copyrights when Hubbard dumped his leftover debts in bankruptcy court. Hubbard dreamed up scientology and past lives who had something else to sell in 1952. Also, Volney Mathison came along with Mathison Lie Detector. There is major lulzy story about him and Hubbard trying to “recreate” a deadly Xray laser for profit. Next time you see an emeter, you will see e-lulz. Oh, and Volney is the first to use Tone Scale concept. Did Hubbard steal everything? jeesh.

      http://194.63.248.138/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=33189&p=383835

      Here’s a group picture with Purcell, oh and A. E. Van Vogt and others. There’s also an ad insert with first mention of Hubbard trying to use his customers to see if they knew any of them scientific scientists type to form up his “Allied Science” group, forget what it was called. The whole bunch could have their own long running reality tv show today.

      http://home.comcast.net/~reevaluation-counseling/dh_page_15.htm

      [IMG]http://i43.tinypic.com/ejhcoj.jpg[/IMG]

  • Jgg2012

    Can you imagine what life would be like if everyone was a Scientologist? Everyone would smoke (“smoking is good for you”); illnesses would be treated by hypnosis, not medicine; couples would not be close, or see their children often; gays would be in the closet; journalists (“merchants of chaos”) would not expose fraud and corruption; and so on.
    Whose side was Hubbard on during the cold war?

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      His.

    • Spackle Motion

      So you’re talking about the year 1700ish (except for the smoking part, that came much later).

      • Jgg2012

        Well, given what he said about blacks and working women, I’d say that that is about right. We didn’t guarantee free press or speech until 1790 or so (with the Bill of Rights).

      • Jgg2012

        Or perhaps modern day North Korea?

        • Snippy_X

          with beans on top.

  • media_lush

    More and more media are having a field day with Will Smith’s massive Xenu turkey [latest stuff on my http://scientologybollocks.blogspot.co.uk site ]…. here’s an hilarious bit:

  • Observer

    FoX, where are yoooouuuu?

    • Captain Howdy

      I was wondering the same thing.

  • hogarthian

    Unfortunately I’m going to have to retire to a darkened room, because I can feel a ‘John Sweeney’ moment coming on.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Cheers!

      • hogarthian

        BURY where WERE you?!?! I needed help to get Theo Papadopoolopomalakis on lines! and I was ALONE! I have to leave now, I need to recalibrate my equilibrium, before it combusts.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          LoL… I have been in and out today.
          Theo is harmless….trust me! and he owes me a beer or two since I got him all a twitter because I can go exterior!!!!

          Edit: right now Theo see’s me as an Operating Thetan…Which technically..i am!!!!

      • hogarthian

        oops. too late. it’s happened.

    • VickiStubing

      I feel a creepy voyeuristic moment coming on. Can we hook up? BAHAHAHAHA

  • sister wendy

    This is the reason Beloved Husband and I raised our eyebrows in the beginning. – so many partner switching and divorcing. Also- all the anti-drug talk while everyone smoked and drank coffee. I’m just sorry we dumped so much money into it before we finally as is-ed the Great Con……Wow- I hate being on this coast and not seeing anything until it’s a day old being posted!

    • BuryTheNuts2

      How are things Sister Wendy?

      BTN is Vodka’ed up! but still amazingly lucid.

      You back with kitty?

      • sister wendy

        Thanks BTN- if I wasn’t having Chronic Fatigue- I’d be with you on the Vodka. Kitty is at home- I’m here with my mom. It’s hard. I have to say. Thanks for asking. I’m loving the online blog entertainment;)

        • Captain Howdy

          One of my all time best friends has had CFS/ME since the mid 80′s. My heart goes out to you because based on what she’s told me and from what I’ve read it’s one of the worse things there possibly is.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            CFS/Scleroderma/Lupis are all very similar and very, very ugly

          • sister wendy

            I think it’s pretty bad- but I don’t think it’s as bad as shingles….however, going through this process with my mom dying and de-toxing from SciFi Religion is harder for me than giving birth was by far and away…..

            • aquaclara

              Oh my….lots of stuff going on for you. Hope things get better. I am really glad you’re out, though. We’re all here… Let us knowing we can help. HUGS!

        • hogarthian

          Oh dear. My mum has CFS/ME and fybromyalgia. I feel for you.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            It is sad that some people think this illness is fake

            • hogarthian

              Yup. Tell me about it. I’m ashamed to say that it even took me a while to get my head around it. It’s bloody awful.

          • sister wendy

            thanks

        • Snippy_X

          The Mayo Clinic has a program for CFS.

          (A friend of mine did it and said it was very helpful.)

          • sister wendy

            thanks! I’ll check it out:) I tend to prefer alternative treatments, but I always check out Mayo for info and ideas!

        • sister wendy

          Thanks everyone- it’s a super drag. I got if from NOT taking care of myself- or possibly because I got rid of too many body thetans;) Actually, I have a WONDERFUL alternative practitioner I’m working with right now. Really helping, but slow….

      • dbloch7986

        Yikes! Don’t go trimming the weeds when you are toasted. You might end up cutting something you need. Unless you’re using an electric razor, then you should be okay.

    • VickiStubing

      Aw, sorry about the time difference. I’ve had a couple of loosely scheduled days, otherwise I’m in the same boat. But I think there’s plenty of fun still to be had tonight :D

      • sister wendy

        looks like it;)

    • BuryTheNuts2

      I am sorry. I so understand in more ways than I can express right now.

      • sister wendy

        thanks. I guess all of us who remain alive go through this sooner or later;) I shouldn’t laugh about it- but even my mom is laughing at the moment. On a weird note, she did, for some reason invite over a group of JW’s to talk after they’d fixed her fence. Since she’s an atheist I’m wondering who will be ranting on whom by the time they are done;)

        • VickiStubing

          When the Mormon missionaries were still allowed to come to my house they would spend hours in my garden, working alongside me. We had some interesting conversations. That’s why they’re not allowed to come play with me anymore :(

          • sister wendy

            Haha! The guy who got me into Scientology was a Mormon- and he was gay! Man! He had a hard time from both sides;)

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              A gay Mormon Scientologist? Sounds like a whole roomful of crazy!

            • sister wendy

              I can’t imagine very many of those, can you;)?

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            Mormonism is me speciality. I treat every missionary with total respect and kindness. Yet they invariably end up “shaking the dust” off their feet as they head home from our stimulating conversations…

            • Kim O’Brien

              i had a couple of them come to my door last week . They asked me if i wanted to read the Book of Mormon …i told them “Sure ..let me give you my copy of Under the Banner of Heaven “….they RAN off of my porch

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Again…I understand.

          I have a story of a “miracle”, but I will save it for another time.

          Because I do not believe in miracles…and yet there it was…
          and yes, laugh about it. tis OK

          • sister wendy

            looking forward;)

    • aquaclara

      Don’t worry about being behind…we need 24 hour coverage here on the Bunker lately. Sorry about the Great Con experience… But so glad you are out now!!!
      Comment away! We need you! And 3rd shift, too!

      • hogarthian

        3rd shift.. I love that! Maybe we should all ‘clock-in’ and ‘clock-out’!

      • EnthralledObserver

        This Aussie has the third shift covered… well, most days… lol

        • aquaclara

          It’s great to see the 24hour following here! Always something going on! Go, Aussie!

  • sister wendy

    My best friend was hit on at a “family” dinner by the OT5 hostess. Seriously- a pants grab in the middle of desert! He was terrified and surprised- when her husband came in the room he just said: “yes, she’s like that. You get used to it after awhile, don’t worry” (!!!!)

  • N. Graham
    • VickiStubing

      Fonzie jumped a shark and Tom jumped a…cow.

  • hogarthian

    Me and DeEliz are trying to hold off Theo over on yesterday’s post. It’s descended into disgusting profanity (at our end). Dee’s been cussing, which was fun. Please go and read what he replied to Derek.

    edit: and now I really MUST go to sleep. My work here is done.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      HUH? is Theo still yakkng? right now?

      • hogarthian

        up until about 30 mins ago, i think. It all went a bit pear shaped. I’m not proud of it.

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          STILL? I guess it’s the time diiference. At least, I hope that’s it…

    • DeElizabethan

      Finally made it over here. You know Theo reminds me so much of the Scientologists I’ve put up with and the way they talk down to people while spewing. Sometimes I just have enough of hearing the BS and yes, cuss I can, when stimulated. I never stood up to them in the past while indoctrinated. Especially after reading so much for 2 days. I have a limit to their s**t.
      It was also fun Hogarthian,

      Of course a little Swedish vodka helps to brings up my ‘tone 40′ and sword. Who said alcohol wasn’t a good process? Now I’ll be sweet and enjoy all your comments through the evening.

      • hogarthian

        Dee… you’re so gracious, even when you cuss. It’s lovely. I’m done now too, and it’s left me feeling a bit mucky. I felt, somehow, that I was engaging in some cyber version of throwing stones at the village idiot, but at the same time absolutely infuriated.

        • DeElizabethan

          Not sure if you have been in or not or how familiar with their tactics. I’ve had enough and just don’t take it anymore. Yes I probably looked for a fight but sometimes it’s necessary when I see that, for me anyway. It just one way of many ways.

          • hogarthian

            I haven’t been in Dee, but I am familiar with their tactics. I tell you what though, listening to someone like Theo makes me see what a five star nightmare it must be to be a scientologist. And all the more baffling that there are any scientologists at all. It’s a head fuck, that’s for sure!

        • BuryTheNuts2

          HOG..,.get tough!

        • DeElizabethan

          Just went back over to that thread. You strong, luv it!
          What a thread that was for two days huh?

      • BuryTheNuts2

        i had sky vodka….but that is not swedish

        • DeElizabethan

          Was a great sale, almost bought sky, and now have raspberry. I drink it with aloe juice of sorts, mmm good.

          • hogarthian

            One of your five-a-day then! Well done!

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Dee, we are having dinner in a week or so?
        Columbia again? let me know. got my number?

        • DeElizabethan

          Fantabulistic, sure and yes. Oh, will love to see you.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            U 2….can hardleywait!!!

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          guava cheese puff pastry is a must-have there!

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Uh huh!

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Join us?

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Damn….nieces graduation out of town next weekend. Thanks for the invite. Remember your favorite hubturd for next time ladies and I’ll be there!

      • DeElizabethan

        Yippee, the first down vote I’ve seen. Thanks.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      So what am I, chopped liver?

      Hardest part with Theo is not falling into the ramblin’ trap. I try to be as succinct as possible Profanity also does the trick!

      • DeElizabethan

        Hey I love chopped liver DDD. Have I told you how much I care and appreciate your comments. Lo, you are a strong one!

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          Aw. Thanks.

      • hogarthian

        lol! there was a window of about 40 mins where Dee and I were on our own. We did ok. Profanity did indeed do the trick, in the end!

  • deanblair

    I trained on the SHSBC at ASHO in 1970-1971. I audited my mother through her lower grades. Then in the 80′s I audited her on the Clear Certainty Rundown and informed her that she was not yet Clear. I audited her on Dianetics for some time and she went Clear. After she did her solo OT levels I audited her on OT 4 and OT 5. It is rare that one audits ones parents but in my case that is what occurred. It was my mother who had gotten into Scientology first and introduced me to it when I was in high school.

    I am no longer a Scientologist and quit drinking that kool aid years ago. It is a fraud.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Thanks Dean. Really!

  • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

    We’ve talked a lot about how opposed to love Scientology and LRH are. But I didn’t know that he’d actually written down that romantic love was an impossibility.

    Everyone doing Scientology is doing the case of this vile excuse for a human being. It sickens me that anyone can defend this evil shit. HE couldn’t feel love, so obviously the whole thing must be a hoax, right? What a jackass. An incredibly pathetic jackass.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Xxxxx ten your last sentence

  • media_lush

    STOP PRESS:

    BATTLEFIELD EARTH TO BE REMADE – CRUISE, TRAVOLTA AND WILL SMITH ALL ABOARD.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      The studio finally had to let reviewers look at After Earth. And the critics are raving!

      http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-207_162-57587058/after-earth-reviews-critics-blast-will-smiths-sci-fi-family-epic/

      “To say critics haven’t exactly been blown away by “After Earth” would be an understatement.Most reviewers are holding nothing back when tearing apart the new sci-fi film from M. Night Shyamalan starring father-and-son acting team Will and Jaden Smith.

      The Wall Street Journal is even wondering if “After Earth” is one of the worst movies ever made.”

      What is it about Scientology that makes everything so bad…?

  • DodoTheLaser

    I’m tired of y’all weird grumpy avatars.