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Your Life as Sperm or Egg: L. Ron Hubbard’s Mad Genius

WoodyAllenSpermWelcome to our ongoing project, where we blog a 1950 first edition of Scientology’s bible, Dianetics, with the help of ex-Scientologist, Bay Area lawyer, blogger, and author Vance Woodward. Go here for the first post in the series.

Vance, in the last chapter, Hubbard’s cryptic examples and use of passive voice led us to wonder if he wasn’t describing his own mental instability and physical ailments, masked as examples of unnamed patients.

We couldn’t shake that feeling as he took us into this next chapter, “Prenatal Experience and Birth,” which has to be the most disturbing so far.

Piling on the vague references to unspecific research with even more passive voice, Hubbard really builds up a mystery sandwich as he tries to justify his strangest claim yet: that engrams begin in human sperm and human ova and then in the fetus.

Although Hubbard doesn’t have a shred of evidence to explain how he gets there, he assures us that this, too, is scientific fact.

BloggingDianeticsThe suggestion is so preposterous, one wonders about wasting the effort to point out the problems that occur on every page. Previously, for example, Hubbard had referred to 270 cases that he’d handled during his research about colds. Now he tells us that he handled 270 “clears,” and every single one of them turned out to have prenatal engrams.

Not to look too far ahead, but that number is astounding when one considers what happened later: that his one attempt to produce a clear after publication of the book proved disastrous, and he didn’t claim again to have produced a clear until John McMaster in 1966.

But again, it feels almost like giving this material too much credit to bother pointing that out. While larding the initial pages of this chapter with a sequence of events that isn’t even convincing as science fiction, Hubbard knows that if a reader is credulous enough to credit his “reactive mind” and “engrams,” then it’s really nothing to take that reader into the womb. And beyond.

But this chapter is only getting warmed up as Hubbard prepares us for perhaps the most disturbing, biggest whopper so far.

Before we get there, Vance, we have to ask, did you recover memories, in your career in the church, of your life as a sperm? Or as a fetus? And how much was that part of the experience of the people you met?

VANCE: Unfortunately, no, I never made up any prenatal engrams. I suppose my imagination wasn’t up to the task of recreating the sperm-in-a-plane scene out of Woody Allen’s Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sex (see above). If only it had been. My mom tells me that when she was pregnant with me, she once fell flat out on the driveway, presumably giving me a fantastic engram. I always hoped to get at that one, but no luck. What a bummer. But then again, I’m the guy that spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to get maybe halfway to Clear before being sent back to the bottom to start all over again. By anybody’s definition, I was a tough case.

And as for other people, Scientologists shy away from talking about stuff like that for fear of being “invalidated.” It can happen both ways. You tell me a whopper of a prenatal story and I give you a raised eyebrow, which causes you to “lose your wins.” Or you tell me the same whopper and I become introverted about the fact that I can’t manufacture false memories as well as you (not that I’d articulate it that way). Either way, these eternal wins that Scientology provides can apparently be wiped out by a little skepticism. Fancy that. I never did sort out that riddle.

Of course, this is where we Scientologists say, “It doesn’t matter whether or not there are prenatal engrams; the important thing is that people benefit from auditing. … And those who don’t benefit from it must need Scientology auditing,” which just happens to be way more expensive.

THE BUNKER: Well, let’s get to the end of the chapter, when Hubbard really asks us to go a breech birth too far.

After several pages of virtuosic hand-waving, Hubbard tells us his 270 cases proved, without a doubt, the existence of engrams picked up while we were sperm, egg, or fetus.

“The prenatal engram is a scientific fact,” he says, once again showing that “scientific fact” in fact has no meaning in Dianetics.

Then he really goes for broke, saying that acceptance of this “fact” is required if his discovery of “clears” has any meaning: “The acceptance of the prenatal engram as a working fact alone makes possible the clear” (emphasis his).

That’s really a key idea and one that’s going to characterize much of Scientology to come. Promised result (miracle cures, abilities) require a breakdown in critical thinking: If you want to gain the superhuman qualities of a clear (which have never been demonstrated), you must first accept as fact the completely unproved (and ludicrous) idea that your conscious mind is occasionally short-circuited by traumatic memories picked up while you were a sperm swimming around looking for an egg. What a formula.

But Hubbard takes the crazy even further. We had noted previously that the world Hubbard seemed to inhabit in 1950 was one that had people knocking each other unconscious with surprising frequency. But that’s nothing, apparently, next to what the unborn endure…

Mama sneezes, baby gets knocked “unconscious.” Mama runs lightly and blithely into a table and baby gets its head stoved in. Mama has constipation and baby, in the anxious effort, gets squashed. Papa becomes passionate and baby has the sensation of being put into a running washing machine. Mama gets hysterical, baby gets an engram. Papa hits Mama, baby gets an engram. Junior bounces on Mama’s lap, baby gets an engram. And so it goes.

And these engrams have the greatest effect, naturally…

Engrams received as zygote are potentially the most aberrative, being wholly reactive. Those received as an embryo are intensely aberrative. Those received as the foetus are enough to send people to institutions all by themselves.

But perhaps the most disturbing of all is that Hubbard clearly has come to the conclusion that the incidence of attempted abortion is astronomically high: “A large proportion of allegedly feeble-minded children are actually attempted abortion cases, whose engrams place them in fear paralysis or regressive palsy…However many billions America spends yearly on institutions for the insane and jails for the criminals are spent primarily because of attempted abortions done by some sex-blocked mother to whom children are a curse, not a blessing of God.”

Vance, we’re definitely starting to get the feeling that L. Ron Hubbard may have been one of the biggest misogynists of all time.

VANCE: I could never figure out how sex would make a fetus feel like it was in a washing machine. I must be doing it wrong. And lord only knows what twerking does to a witless zygote. Tony, you’ve really done it now. I feel shame at having been a Scientologist. I must have been stuck in a prenatal to have read this chapter of Dianetics and not burst out laughing like I did just now.

Carrying on the thread about Hubbard writing about his own case, I always suspected that these attempted abortion stories (there are more) were obtained first hand. Of course, nothing would have been Hubbard’s fault. I’m guessing it was one of his Commie ex-wives who begged and emotionally blackmailed him into pulling out the knitting needles. Poor guy. And shame on her.

That said, here’s a quote, where I think Hubbard gets it right: “If dianetics had worked on obscure theories … dianetics would not be a science of the mind.” Well, exactly. QED bro.

About the facts and proof issue, it appears Hubbard had a slightly different definition for those things than everybody else. He becomes rather explicit about it in later books, but basically the idea is that proof is that which gets you what you want. Hubbard apparently “helped” some 270 test subjects by auditing out their prenatal engrams. The fact that the preclears were helped (by who knows what measure) “proves” that prenatal engrams are real. I think we can safely assume that the test subjects’ prenatal engrams bore no correspondence to historic events. That’s assuming Hubbard wasn’t completely lying about the number of test subjects, which is, shall we say, “conceivable.” But who cares? That’s not what proof is about, apparently. In Scientology, proof is whatever gets people stoked.

THE BUNKER: This ride is getting pretty bumpy. We’re not sure we could have made it this far without your sage advice, Woodward.

Next week — The Mother and Child Reunion: Another Dianetics Nightmare

 
—————-

AND NOW A MESSAGE FROM SCIENTOLOGY’S FACEBOOK NAZI

JoJoFB

 
—————-

IT’S NEVER TOO SOON TO ENDANGER YOUR KIDS THE HUBBARD WAY!

Recently, we shocked readers with a postcard from the Mace-Kingsley Family Center, a Scientology program in Clearwater, Florida, that encourages parents to have their kids begin their Scientology indoctrination as infants. But a tipster pointed us to Mace-Kingsley’s Facebook page, which included this rather astounding photo…

MKPurif

And here’s the caption that came with it:

A ten year old finishes the Purification Rundown at Mace-Kingsley Family Center:

โ€œI feel GREAT! I feel absolutely awesome and toxin free. I feel light as a feather but as strong as an elephant. Also I feel like all of those nasty toxins just flew away and not only my body feels great but my spirit too! I am more aware, happy, fresh, clean, bright, toxin free. I hope everyone gets a chance to do the Purification Rundown and feel what I am feeling right now. I knew from the beginning that this was going to change my life!!!!โ€ C. H. 10 yrs.

The Purification Rundown involves sitting for several hours a day in a sauna while ingesting huge amounts of Niacin and other vitamins. We’ll just assume Mace-Kingsley dials back the hours for the youngsters.

 
—————-

SMERSH Madness: Sowing the Seeds of World Domination!

As we announced on March 1, we’re joining bracket fever with a tournament like no other. It’s up to you to decide who should be named the new SMERSH, the traditional nemesis of Scientology. Cast your vote for who’s doing more to propel the church down its long slide into oblivion!

Continuing in the first round, we have an interesting matchup this morning.

LMPVsOCMB

Lisa Marie Presley made it pretty clear in her last album, Storm & Grace, that she’d left Scientology behind. We’ve speculated that she won’t speak out about it because of family she still has inside the church. But we’re starting to think her silence is actually working against Scientology, and she may inspire other celebrities to leave.

Operation Clambake, or Xenu.net, was started by a Norwegian engineer, Andreas Heldal-Lund, in 1996. It quickly became a major nemesis for the church as it hosted vast amounts of damaging information that Scientology wants kept quiet. It’s still a great resource today for researchers. (We’re in the habit of calling it “OCMB,” but we’re asking for a vote on the entire website, not just its message board.)

 
Go to our March 1 post for the latest tournament results.

 
——————-

Posted by Tony Ortega on March 14, 2013 at 07:00

 

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  • Cymboli Starsong

    If adults want to join the cult and pretend they have powers like Samantha Stevens that is fine with me. Forcing your children to swallow ridiculous amounts of Niacin and then cook them like steamed brocolli is not only disgusting, its inhumane. These “parents” should be visited by DCF on a regular basis.

    • They need to make their toddlers do the Purif, get rid of all their potty thetans.

    • DMSTCC

      Kinda brings a whole new meaning to “Cooking with Children”

  • Mason Pierce

    And that’s an awfully articulate testimonial for a ten-year-old… Sciloon or not. As well, love the fact that they’re fearing putting event info on Facebook now- just goes to show that regardless of what Miscabbage yelps, Anonymous and the anti-Sci movement STILL RUN THIS.

    • mirele

      There is something to be said for just showing up and not saying a word in the usual places. My most favorite incident, now 15.5 years ago, was when I drove down to LA from SLC to picket at the Shrine with Keith Henson. I got to see Little Davey! I got to tell people about Lisa McPherson! It was 100 degrees on November 1, 1997! (LAX had it at 93, I just went and checked to make sure my memory was correct, but it was HOT!)

      We’ve been running this for a long, long time.

      • 1subgenius

        Continue=Win
        Stop=Fail

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        I read that with a smile. I hope Keith Hensen is doing well, and has gone on to other important things. There is a guy who sacrificed a lot to make a dent in the cult.

  • Bella Legosi

    Oh you know this one is gonna be good! Genius headline and a screenshot from Everything You Ever Whated to Know About…..good taste Tony! Now I am going to have to stay up and read the sure to be a very entertaining blog. ๐Ÿ˜€

  • LongNeckGoose

    When I did the Purif at Celebrity Centre, there was a kid around 10 years old who I’d see in the sauna from time to time. Most of the people there were in their 20s or 30s though there were three of us old guys who had passed our 40th birthdays. In the sauna, there were times when I could taste the medical drugs I’d been given before surgery fifteen years earlier. One night, when walking down the hall to my room, I smelled marijuana and wondered “who’s blowing dope at Celebrity Centre?” before I realized that the marijuana smell must have coming from me. So we would talk about this stuff in the sauna, and one day the 10-year-old said, “I think I’m running out NyQuill.”

    • 1subgenius

      Cool story bro.

    • Del Ling

      “I could taste the medical drugs I’d been given before surgery fifteen years earlier”

      Ehmmm… No. Not possible. In any way. According to real science.

      • stanrogers

        Actually, you can taste (and smell) any number of things in a dehydrated state, mostly due to having your electrolytes screwed up. How you choose to interpret those strange tastes (and what they remind you of) is a matter of your psychological state and makeup. So yes, you *can* taste drugs you’ve taken long ago or smell dope smoke that isn’t there, according to *real* science.

        • DeElizabethan

          That’s true for some people. I used to be able to re-create, recall or remember my potted state therefore not needing any, hey it’s a doozy, humn smell it , blah,blah chatter, chatter rreel and soooo forrthhh… Funnnnnn.

        • CraftLass

          Isn’t smell one of the strongest connections to memory? I can call up all sorts of scent-memories, just as smelling certain scents can bring up very strong memories, even of things I’d thought I’d forgotten. For example, when I smell the cologne my high school sweetheart wore I can almost feel his arms hugging me. Conversely, when I think about him I can smell the cologne. It’s all just trickery of the mind, of course, but it seems very real when one is experiencing it. Luckily, I’m cognizant of this fact, but many people like to think it has higher meaning, not just Scientologists.

          Our brains are so suggestible! It sucks when that fact is used to con people, but it can also be fun when you are enjoying, say, a magic show. Or happy memories.

          • DeElizabethan

            Agree. I can go with those happy memories, so soothing at times…

            • CraftLass

              Definitely! ๐Ÿ™‚ They can keep us going through the bad times or just make us even happier when already happy.

      • LongNeckGoose

        I’m a huge believer in real science, but it’s pretty hard to mistake the taste of that hospital anesthetic. We also saw old sunburns coming back and going away after a while; the bathing suit lines were perfectly visible and unmistakable. I used to wear a religious medal on a chain around my neck but the round shape started showing up on my chest in the sauna, so my skin was obviously picking something up from the medal, which is why I stopped wearing it. Obviously Hubbard wasn’t a scientist or anything even remotely close. Maybe a real scientist will do some research on this in the future. I stand by my observations.

        • LongNeckGoose

          Although I certainly couldn’t rule out the possibility (however remote) that there was actually someone smoking marijuana in their room at the Manor Hotel. Co-incidences happen. Can’t rule it out.

        • Del Ling

          I’m not questioning what you experienced or how your mind interpreted it. The theory that drugs are stored in fatty tissues for ages and then can be sweated out is however just wrong and an great example of LRHs false ‘tech’. The niacin overdose combined with expectation probably induced a reaction etc. Greatly explained and debated by others in threads above.

    • Sidney18511

      Wow LNG….you REALLY got your $2000 worth.

    • Mary_McConnell

      We all experienced things we explained away based upon what we were told the purif was capable of doing. I don’t deny the right of people to believe what they want and to have to justify their experiences. I, myself, saw a very old bad sunburn emerge on my body, delineated by bathing suit strap marks, while on my purif. If that sunburn hadn’t been the last time I ever sat in the sun to tan, if I had not gotten sun poisoning from it, it could have been any other sunburn but it wasn’t when it ‘reppeared’ while in the sauna. I knew it and no one could convince me otherwise. I’m not saying it was ‘run out’ by the program, but it certainly emerged while on the program and did subside after a couple of days, but I saw it and other saw it and … well, it was an experience there really is no scientific explanation for, that I know of.

      Did you really smell marijuana? Yes. “before I realized that the marijuana smell must have coming from me.” gets us closer to the reality of what happens to people indoctrinated on what to expect on the purif, before experiencing it. Your statement really seems like an assumption, a guess, for lack of knowing where the smell came from to begin with. It could have been a memory of the smell for all you know, right? That doesn’t mean you didn’t smell it. It just means that there is no proven explanation for it, so you presumed it was a real smell coming from you.

      The fact is, there are too many unknowns about what Hubbard clearly claimed as fact and made people study before doing the program. Until these experiences some people have had on the purif are proven as a scientific fact by scientific testing, be prepared to double check your thinking process on yours and understand that you will not be taken seriously when you post stuff like that. It goes with the territory.

      • Sidney18511

        Mary, I don’t know where it was but I read that there is a scientific reason why the purif brings out old sunburn. I will search for it an see if I can find the link.

        • RMycroft

          Basically, it’s skin damage and flush. One question that purif believers should ask themselves is that if the purif runs out radiation, how come the same sunburn pattern appears each time that they do the purif?

          • Sherbet

            Sort of like those foot detox pads. They turn color because of a chemical reaction (they’re impregnated with something that turns brown upon contact with skin oils? moisture? I can’t remember), but that reaction has nothing to do with body toxins. Still, people believe they work, because they can see the brown color. And when they see the brown, they believe the toxins have been removed overnight, and they feel better. In the same way, so much of lrh’s “proof” is really anecdotal evidence. If somebody wants to believe that the purif is doing exactly what lrh said it would, then they probably won’t accept any other explanation, no matter what science proves or disproves. Furthermore, if someone is paying a lot of money for scn treatments, he/she is even more motivated to believe the treatments work. I saw it; therefore, it’s true.

            • RMycroft

              Ah yes, those detox foot pads. They’ll turn color even if you don’t stick your feet in them.

            • Sherbet

              Which goes to prove how effective they are! Just place them in the same room with a toxic person, and they react! I believe! I believe!

          • Sherbet

            Sort of like those foot detox pads. They turn color because of a chemical reaction (they’re impregnated with something that turns brown upon contact with skin oils? moisture? I can’t remember), but that reaction has nothing to do with body toxins. Still, people believe they work, because they can see the brown color. And when they see the brown, they believe the toxins have been removed overnight, and they feel better. In the same way, so much of lrh’s “proof” is really anecdotal evidence. If somebody wants to believe that the purif is doing exactly what lrh said it would, then they probably won’t accept any other explanation, no matter what science proves or disproves. Furthermore, if someone is paying a lot of money for scn treatments, he/she is even more motivated to believe the treatments work. I saw it; therefore, it’s true.

        • stanrogers

          You can find the explanation (sourced and cited) in the Narconon Exposed site, specifically at http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Narconon/junkscience.htm in the section titled “Niacin”.

      • FistOfXenu

        I once saw a hypnotist do this act.
        What he did 1st was he made a guy’s arm numb. He proved it by pinching him and sticking pins in the skin. Then he pushed a needle through the skin on the guy’s forearm. The guy said he felt nothing. Hypnotist said when he took the needle out there’d be no blood and sure enough no blood. So far pretty regular trick right? Then he did something I never saw before. He put on a padded glove like an oven glove and told the guy he was holding up a tablespoon. The guy confirmed he could see the tablespoon. The hypnotist walked behind the guy for a bit and then came back and said “I just heated this over a bunsen burner and it’s hot enough to burn you” Then he pressed it on the back of the guy’s hand. The guy still felt no pain. Still pretty regular right? Here’s the part that wasn’t regular. There never was a spoon. The hypnotist never had a tablespoon, he was using a wooden pencil. And the back of the guy’s hand had a red mark on it. It was the shape of a spoon.

        Anybody here know how that works? Because I sure as hell don’t. But it sounds like what some of you are talking about.

        • Missionary Kid

          It has to do with the power of suggestion and that the mind has much more control over the body than we think. It is an exaggerated form of the placebo effect. Hypnotists have been doing this trick for decades.

          There is evidence that this is a strong component of acupuncture.

          • FistOfXenu

            So you’re saying if you spend hours in some kind of hypnotic mind space being indoctrinated that the PR will make you process old sunburns and drugs still in your body, you’ll believe it and when you do the PR your body could create some of the symptoms? Okay, that makes a load more sense than trying to believe $cientarCONon’s bullshit explanation. Thanks.

            • Missionary Kid

              It doesn’t take hours.

              The person believed that they were reliving their sunburns, so the body duplicated the look. I’m not saying that the skin was actually sunburned, but that there have been instances of skin turning red because the person had the belief that they were being burned.

              There have been documented cases of people being operated on without anesthesia, and the mind has blocked the pain.

              It’s no Jedi mind trick, or new-age alternative medicine crap. The problem is that it doesn’t work on anyone or on all of the time.

              I went to the dentist for years without using anesthetics because I used my wife’s childbirth relaxation techniques. The pain levels were about what I had experienced with anesthetic, but I didn’t have half of my mouth dead afterwards, and my gums weren’t sore from having an incompressible liquid injected into dense tissue. When I tensed up, the pain got worse.

              My mother was an RN in pre-revolution mainland China for over 16 years. I asked her if she had ever heard of acupuncture. She hadn’t, even though it is something that has been around for centuries. There is some evidence that the Communist regime made a conscious effort to use it because of a lack of anesthetics for the barefoot doctors who took care of the peasants health. The people believed it, and it worked. It is, in essence, the ultimate manifestation of the placebo effect.

              $ciobullshit takes advantage of people’s gullibility to “prove” their tech works, when, in reality, it is a hypnotist’s parlor trick. The other factor that is involved is that people often convince themselves that something happened when they are pressured into thinking so or something is suggested to them. It most often happens with children.

              Suggestibility is, I believe, the reason that they insist on victims telling about “wins” after some tech. It keeps the suckers thinking they got a lot more benefit than they actually did.

            • Missionary Kid

              It doesn’t take hours.

              The person believed that they were reliving their sunburns, so the body duplicated the look. I’m not saying that the skin was actually sunburned, but that there have been instances of skin turning red because the person had the belief that they were being burned.

              There have been documented cases of people being operated on without anesthesia, and the mind has blocked the pain.

              It’s no Jedi mind trick, or new-age alternative medicine crap. The problem is that it doesn’t work on anyone or on all of the time.

              I went to the dentist for years without using anesthetics because I used my wife’s childbirth relaxation techniques. The pain levels were about what I had experienced with anesthetic, but I didn’t have half of my mouth dead afterwards, and my gums weren’t sore from having an incompressible liquid injected into dense tissue. When I tensed up, the pain got worse.

              My mother was an RN in pre-revolution mainland China for over 16 years. I asked her if she had ever heard of acupuncture. She hadn’t, even though it is something that has been around for centuries. There is some evidence that the Communist regime made a conscious effort to use it because of a lack of anesthetics for the barefoot doctors who took care of the peasants health. The people believed it, and it worked. It is, in essence, the ultimate manifestation of the placebo effect.

              $ciobullshit takes advantage of people’s gullibility to “prove” their tech works, when, in reality, it is a hypnotist’s parlor trick. The other factor that is involved is that people often convince themselves that something happened when they are pressured into thinking so or something is suggested to them. It most often happens with children.

              Suggestibility is, I believe, the reason that they insist on victims telling about “wins” after some tech. It keeps the suckers thinking they got a lot more benefit than they actually did.

      • As far as the sunburn thing, my old sunburn, from a dozen years ago, comes out when I stay too long in an over-hot shower! Little scary to think of the damaging power of the sun; perhaps some deeper layer of the skin permanently shows damage. I mean it’s there, strap marks and all. Some rearrangement of the capillaries?

        Never in, so the other phenomena are nothing I have experience with. I’ve thought, though, about the niacin, that it’s something of a cheap trick, with the flush it causes, and the metallic taste it can leave in the mouth. Same thing as “medicinal” shampoo with menthol: if it tingles, it must work!

        It doesn’t seem unreasonable at all that after all the indoctrination, somebody would experience the exact phenomena suggested to that person in the “Purif.” We should just be grateful that Elron, in his assorted borrowings from conquestees of the Empire he liked to emulate, didn’t glom onto the Australian Aboriginal “Bone Pointing Ceremony.” Victims of that ceremonial execution have been documented to just lie down and die, purely from belief.

        Possibly the only reason Ron never tried it himself (at least the Aboriginal kind) was the difficulty in obtaining kangaroo hair shoes.

    • Unex Skcus

      Where can I get some of whatever you were on?

    • Robert Long

      A few years ago I was taking some classes from a Golden Dawn splinter group where one of the instructors elicited an OT type response. So, something in the lesson touched on NDEs and related phenomena as interpreted through the ideas of Karl Jung and Tim Leary; the teacher in question begins a story about NDE type experience that he’d in “a previous working I used to practice.” Something about how “me and the partner I was practicing with were able to guide each other through end of life consciousness shift and gave us a whole new perspective on mortality. ” My vibe changed immediately for the worse, and I felt

  • Observer

    OCMB. Lisa Marie’s departure was so under the radar that it has been barely a blip on the public consciousness. OCMB, on the other hand, is still one of the critics’ go-to sites, and Karen’s thread there on the abuses at Int is enturbulating little Davey to no end. And let’s not forget the persecution Andreas endured, and the fact that he was instrumental in bringing Tory out of the cult.

    There really aren’t enough pejorative adjectives for LRH and his crap. At first it was kind of fun to try to come up with them, but now it’s just depressing. His evil foolishness exceeds my vocabulary. His poor children.

    I’m also postulating a big old Florida sinkhole for the Mace-Kingsley Parent-Sanctioned Child Abuse Facility (when there are no kids present, of course). Why is there no state oversight?

    • I couldn’t agree with you more, Observer. I honestly don’t think that was a fair match up, at all. My suggestion would be OCMB (Xenu.net) vs EXSCN.net or OCMB vs XENUTV.com. Now any of that combo would be FAR more interesting, imnsho. My favorite quote in Tony O’s article: “Although Hubbard doesnโ€™t have a shred of evidence to explain how he gets
      there, he assures us that this, too, is scientific fact.” AMEN TO THAT! ๐Ÿ™‚

  • Bella Legosi

    “No I never made up pre-natal engrams.” That made me smile ๐Ÿ˜€

    It is irritating to hear people talk about the “wins” and benifits of auditing. Seriously, AA/NA have “wins” too and they are free and do not parade themselves as a religion.

    Now that I am done reading this, I have to say Hubs mysonigy toward women is not surprising of a man who created an exxageratted third rate self help program, that being said Ifind it evil that a group would claim prenatal “engrams” and put a person thru theprocess of reliving them! Thats madness and torture in my opinon. And the guilt of not having anyto experience induces followers to lie or make hem up is just shameful. I am sorry Vance that this happened to youand hope I havent offened ya.

    • And at an AA meeting, if you’ll feeling crappy and like the program isn’t doing anything for you, you can say “The Promises sure aren’t materializing for me” and whine as long and as mopily as you want, and everyone will nod and sympathize and say they’ve been there.

      • Bella Legosi

        Very true! They dont block access to exits and you get free coffee and hugs! A part of me feels LRon “researched” AA or was inspired by it while pulling Dynetics and Scientology out of his colon, but decied to add bait and switch tactics disquised as “science of the mind”, hypnotism, and preying upon man’s weaknessess to engorge his ownpurse. That is what I thjnk of Scientology really. A very expensive, unproven, damageing, brainwashing self help program h

  • Bella Legosi

    Operation Claim Bake ftw!!! That was the first site I got lost in when I started watching thecult. Thenof course the Village Voice ๐Ÿ˜‰ when is VV gonna be onthe list? Heres a goodone VV vs The Bunker

  • Bella Legosi

    That picture of thekid in PR is just sick and twisted! My god Florida CPS where the F**k are you?

  • mirele

    You think Mace-Kingsley dials back the hours? Remember, these are just immortal thetans in little-kid bodies, of course they can do five hours a day in the sauna!

  • FistOfXenu

    As much as I’d like to vote for The King’s daughter (does that make her Princess?) Andreas Heldal-Lund and his website are gigantic. Sorry Lisa.

  • jensting

    Now that the wrath of the Internet has been posed as possible consequence of my voting not the party line, I’m going to have to go with OCMB. Not under duress or anything! (OK, can I have the cat pictures back now, plox? kthnxby!)

    I agree entirely that Hubbard either didn’t know how he came off or didn’t care, and so went with the full-fat misogynist rants. As for not caring, I agree that book one basically filters out those with enough common sense to say “Phoeey!” and that if people actually finish the book – rather than bury it in the ground for fertiliser or somrthing – then they’re ripe for the picking. Sorry Vance…

    Actually, Goldie Hawn and Dean Martin said it better than I ever could. Around 2:20 in http://youtu.be/mez8LZzA-tw

  • FistOfXenu

    Just a random thought: Tony, is it really just coincidence that we’re voting about Operation Clambake on a day when you show us a photo of steamed baby clams?

    • Del Ling

      Brilliant! Your comment has so much win…. The insane steaming baby clams however…

    • Tony needs to reinstitute the comments of the week and start with this one!

  • RMycroft

    Mace-Kingsley Family Center. I suppose it has less abuse than the Mace-Kingsley Ranch–because it’s hard to conceive of a place with as much abuse.

  • Rollo Tomasi

    The difference between the NAMBLA website and the Mace-Kingsley website? Mace-Kingsley is into boys and girls.

  • She has some of her Daddy’s looks, and maybe a little of his personality (a good thing; people who knew Elvis pretty much all liked him), but listening to her records shows she (sadly) has none of his talent. If you are not a reader of gossip magazines, or a watcher of gossip shows on tv, you likely wouldn’t know her if you were in line with her at Cinnabuns. I could say that last bit about Andreas as well, but I guarantee you the dedicated thetans at OSA know who he is!

    ’til next time;
    wynot

  • Mary_McConnell

    This is one the best articles in this Dianetics series! Anyone whoever heard the name ‘Dianetics’ should read it above all the others because it points out the fundamental lunacy of Hubbard’s megalomania.

    Vance got it so right about why no one talks about this in Scientology circles. But I am no longer in that vortex. In all the hours of Dianetic auditing I had, I never once ran conception or birth engrams and I wasn’t a tough case. ๐Ÿ˜›

  • Mary_McConnell

    JoJo Zawawi, lol! She’s one of the main cult ‘handler’s of other scientologists on Facebook. Been at this for years. remember her being spotlighted by Sherry Katz in an article by Marty?

    Disconnection, as we speak
    Posted on October 28, 2009 by martyrathbun09 | 101 Comments

    Dear Marty,

    I thought you and all who read your blog might be interested to know, that, in demonstration of the new โ€œno disconnectionโ€ policy in Scientology, as stated by Tommy Davis just a couple days ago, this Scientologist, JoJo Zawawi, (in the photo) sent around the following to three friends of mine who then forwarded it to me. Evidently, JoJo was not informed of the โ€œno disconnectionโ€ policy. Perhaps OSA Int was not informed either. Here is what JoJo sent:

    โ€œSubject: Sherry Katz

    Dear ____,

    Sherry Katz has resigned from our Church. She is committing suppressive acts and attacking the Church and making effort to pull people off the Bridge. I have personally verified this with OSA Int. I recommend that you delete your Facebook friend connection with her.

    xoxox JoJo (Zawawi)โ€

    Love,

    Sherry
    http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2009/10/28/disconnection-as-we-speak/

    • VickiStubing

      Wow. Just wow.

      And I really appreciate her concern for how we poor anti-social people waste our time. What a saint that JoJo is.

      • Andrew Robertson

        Jo Jo is not just a saint! Ron himself remarked that Jo Albert as she was called back when she was just a 13 year old girl, was a perfect auditor “… hung on for six hours on one session day before yesterday and changed the pc’s whole life. Secret of her success? She does flubless commands.”

        And she’s still flubless with her command intention on Facebook!

        Andrew

        • Andrew Robertson

          But wait – there’s even more dazzling achievements in Jo Jo’s beingness! This from Jo Jo herself, and who better to objectively access her own remarkable talents:

          […]

          I first found out about Scientology when I was 12 years old. ………. I then went and worked directly with L. Ron Hubbard for 6 years, which are some of the best years of my life! He was smart, funny, and had more compassion for his fellow man than I have ever seen before. After that, I pursued many interests in life, including being a classical pianist and composer (I have been called a “genius composer” by Chick Corea), a writer and a poet, and generally “artist-at-large” ! I attribute the ease I find with art directly to the gains I have gotten from Scientology.

          […]

          Jo Jo’s a big being and if she orders you to ‘unfriend’ people on Facebook it’s because of her compassion and concern to ensure entheta is kept off your lines…..or something.like that.

          Andrew

          • How do you measure how much compassion someone has? Someone find a Scientolostatistician! Stat!

            • Observer

              Well, according to this thread on (appropriately) OCMB, all you have to do is throw a 1400 in there somewhere and you’re good to go!

              http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=233664

            • Ze Moo

              I read that one yesterday, it is strange how 1400 is in so many CO$ statistics. We need a new word to describe clam statistics. If ‘blovate’ can apply to Lron, what can be used to describe how many pieces of sheet rock are in the SP building?

            • FistOfXenu

              Kindling?

            • EnthralledObserver

              Oh no… after all those years, all that craftsmanship and re-craftsmanship and money someone wouldn’t really BURN IT DOWN, would they? I mean, with all us wog and SP criminals out here, surely it’s not hard to find someone willing to actually do this atrocious thing?
              :p

            • FistOfXenu

              Since the criminals are the people running the place I have no fear of one of us doing it. But if somebody in charge decided they needed a large payoff of money, say from their insurance company …

            • IBM’s first mass-produced programmable computers were the 1400 series. I learned on a 1401 (with a 1402 printer etc.) The 1400 series are the classic computers that look like:

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KPdWvisIQY&feature=player_detailpage#t=91s

            • i-Betty

              Thanks, Observer. It’s a fascinating thread by J. Swift which highlights scientology’s bizarre obsession with the number 1400. Swift is so on the ball with his research. ( http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=233664 )

            • N. Graham

              It’s a special setting on the e-meter.

          • Observer

            Wow … if the years she spent with LRH were some of the best years of her life, and if LRH had more compassion for his fellow man than she had ever seen before, her pre-Scientology life must have been horrendous. Was she raised by a pack of feral dogs?

            I’m truly saddened for anyone to whom L. Con Hubbard appeared as a paragon of compassion, because they had obviously not experienced any of the real kind.

            • Sidney18511

              So true observer, so very true.

        • stillgrace

          JoJo is a DM-intertube-bitch-puppet!!

    • Bob

      Mary, yes many of us have run into JoJo over the years. She is the self appointed Scn junior Internet social media cop. My description of her as a person is: a failed musician, who has nothing better to do than monitor other clams and make sure they are not connected to dastardly suppressives. In that way she is an important and valuable person to the church of bigot-ology.

      • DeElizabethan

        I have no doubt that she has a direct line with an OSA dept.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Ah, JoJo. When I get angry or frustrated that the police or child welfare authorities, or state attorneys or FBI won’t set one toe inside the circle of scientology crime rings, I think of JoJoWahWah and remember the sci tribe in its last creepy grooming days are now in the Lord of the Flies stage. Wait, superb artist, JoJo, wrote a whole blog about flies; an exerpt from what sounds like a fun adventure in her Sea Org days:

      “One time in Morocco, I was on QM (quartermaster) duty. Thatโ€™s sort of
      like Receptionist at the gangway. There was a donkey cart on the dock. I
      was watching the donkey. You know those huge horse flies ? They have
      them in Morocco. I donโ€™t know if they have them where you’re from. They
      are huge (almost an inch long, I swear), and they are fearless. They
      would land on my lips and try to get into my mouth !!! Blowing did not
      dislodge them ! You had to wipe them off with your hand !!! And then
      they would be on your hand !!! Well, there were horse flies on this
      donkeyโ€™s stomach. I probably told you this story already. He let his
      weenie come snaking out, and he started swinging it. It swung to and
      fro, more and more until finally it was swinging far enough that it was
      swatting the flies on this stomach. Seriously !!! He was swatting flies
      on his stomach with his weenie.”

      http://blog.mysteriousperson.com/2006/09/excerpts-from-fly-letters.html

      Scientology is a haven for criminals and that includes child abuse such as the Purif program. What might be worse than the Purif program itself is Terrorizing their own children about the air they breathe, cold medicine when they are sick, the water they drink, every morsel they eat. Call the authorities? These children know if they call the police, they will lose their homes, their friends, their parents, and that includes for child molestation. The perps and witnesses and victims just get hauled out of state or country, separated, and sat on, at least until statute of limitations have expired. Only person to call or write is your State Senator and Congressman to remove religious cloaking device barriers so the authorities can do their job.

      Which reminds me, JoJo is also good buddies with Marie Warren-Bosio. It’s a Good thing to Not be either one of these creatures’ Friends.

      http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?23582-Holy-Crap!-Karen-exposes-more-cult-crimes!&p=585562&viewfull=1#post585562

      http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=35801

      http://blog.mysteriousperson.com/2006/09/excerpts-from-fly-letters.html

      • sugarplumfairy

        I love the interesting things you bring to light, THDNE..

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          I also have interesting party hats. What time Friday?

          • N. Graham

            Got a party hat already! How about noisemakers? What did LRH call them, whirly somethings?

      • FistOfXenu

        “Seriously !!! He was swatting flies on his stomach with his weenie” Wow, if she can call that a “weenie” when the donkey could do all that with it, she’s not easily pleased is she?

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Ah, JoJo. When I get angry or frustrated that the police or child welfare authorities, or state attorneys or FBI won’t set one toe inside the circle of scientology crime rings, I think of JoJoWahWah and remember the sci tribe in its last creepy grooming days are now in the Lord of the Flies stage. Wait, superb artist, JoJo, wrote a whole blog about flies; an exerpt from what sounds like a fun adventure in her Sea Org days:

      “One time in Morocco, I was on QM (quartermaster) duty. Thatโ€™s sort of
      like Receptionist at the gangway. There was a donkey cart on the dock. I
      was watching the donkey. You know those huge horse flies ? They have
      them in Morocco. I donโ€™t know if they have them where you’re from. They
      are huge (almost an inch long, I swear), and they are fearless. They
      would land on my lips and try to get into my mouth !!! Blowing did not
      dislodge them ! You had to wipe them off with your hand !!! And then
      they would be on your hand !!! Well, there were horse flies on this
      donkeyโ€™s stomach. I probably told you this story already. He let his
      weenie come snaking out, and he started swinging it. It swung to and
      fro, more and more until finally it was swinging far enough that it was
      swatting the flies on this stomach. Seriously !!! He was swatting flies
      on his stomach with his weenie.”

      http://blog.mysteriousperson.com/2006/09/excerpts-from-fly-letters.html

      Scientology is a haven for criminals and that includes child abuse such as the Purif program. What might be worse than the Purif program itself is Terrorizing their own children about the air they breathe, cold medicine when they are sick, the water they drink, every morsel they eat. Call the authorities? These children know if they call the police, they will lose their homes, their friends, their parents, and that includes for child molestation. The perps and witnesses and victims just get hauled out of state or country, separated, and sat on, at least until statute of limitations have expired. Only person to call or write is your State Senator and Congressman to remove religious cloaking device barriers so the authorities can do their job.

      Which reminds me, JoJo is also good buddies with Marie Warren-Bosio. It’s a Good thing to Not be either one of these creatures’ Friends.

      http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?23582-Holy-Crap!-Karen-exposes-more-cult-crimes!&p=585562&viewfull=1#post585562

      http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=35801

      http://blog.mysteriousperson.com/2006/09/excerpts-from-fly-letters.html

    • Couch_Incident

      Googling, I saw a comment in the old VV archive alleging that JoJo Zawawi (formerly JoJo Albert) had a father Al Albert who committed suicide in 1996 after leaving Scn and having his wife (JoJo’s mother) disconnect from him. Also, she supposedly joined the SeaOrg (without parents along) at 11 years old.

  • aquaclara

    Thank you, Jo Jo, for your very thoughtful concern about how I may save some of my precious time. This is a very helpful tip. But please, let me straighten you out on just one thing this morning. The ones making fools of themselves would be …hmmm. you. Not me. After all, I’m not the one running events trying to get people to buy a doorknob.
    Just my opinion, of course. And I may change my mind about the time thing, too.

  • Del Ling

    Heldal-Lunds webpage is what got me hooked into scientology watching, ever since way-back-when it was hunted across the ‘net. If I remember correctly I actually emailed someone to get hold of the OT docs, because it was virtually impossible for any company to host them… a.s.r was full of too much spam and accusations and disinformation to get a grip on for me as a complete outsider. Ahh good times, bad times. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Andrew Robertson

      I remember those halcyon days! It was Andreas who infected me with the Scientology watching virus, a pathology for which medical science has yet to find a cure.

      And as for the excitement on first looking into Chapman’s Homer, (I mean that in a metaphorical sense of course in regard to the deeply mystical OT levels), I must thank the Amsterdam connection for enlightening me as to where the psychotherapeutic bridge descended to, ‘A world free of creativity, independence and freedom.’

      Andrew

      ‘Much have I travell’d in the realms of gold,
      And many goodly states and kingdoms seen;
      Round many western islands have I been
      Which bards in fealty to Apollo hold.
      Oft of one wide expanse had I been told
      That deep-browed Homer ruled as his demesne;
      Yet did I never breathe its pure serene
      Till I heard Chapman speak out loud and bold:
      Then felt I like some watcher of the skies
      When a new planet swims into his ken;
      Or like stout Cortez when with eagle eyes
      He star’d at the Pacific โ€” and all his men
      Look’d at each other with a wild surmise โ€”
      Silent, upon a peak in Darien.’

      – John Keats, 1816

      • “I remember those halcyon days! It was Andreas who infected me with the Scientology watching virus, a pathology for which medical science has yet to find a cure.”

        Try auditing. I audited 270 people, and every single one of them lost interest in Scientology. It’s scientific fact.

      • “a pathology for which medical science has yet to find a cure” But I have a rundown that will blow the charge off that engram, for the unbelievably low price of how-much-have-you-got.

    • FistOfXenu

      Ahh those were the days. And don’t forget Karen Spaink and the start of FACTnet.

    • FistOfXenu

      Ahh those were the days. And don’t forget Karen Spaink and the start of FACTnet.

    • villagedianne

      Yes, OCMB was The place!

    • villagedianne

      Yes, OCMB was The place!

    • ParticleMom

      Same thing here. I found the Clambake in the late 90’s or so and have been watching ever since. I was not a fan of a.r.s., as you said too full of spam. I wish I had stuck it out and been witness to things like Tory finding her way out. I guess I let the Scions win. I spent quite a bit of time on Rick Ross, too.

      I hate to say, but the Fishman story was one of the things that drew me in for good. I guess it is discredited now, but it was a fascinating read. ( Sorry Tony, I know that isn’t one of your favorite topics.)

  • Unex Skcus

    I thought LMP’s “You Aint Seen Nothing Yet” (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bpn9daBzjIs) was OK, but don’t fancy much else of hers. As for Co$, not much impact. OCMB and Andreas by a long shot for me.

  • EnthralledObserver

    I had no idea Lisa Marie was ever even involved with Scientology until I came here and saw people speculating about whether she was now out, so had I never stumbled across the Scieno sordid mess, I’d still have no clue about Lisa Marie… therefore I vote for OCMB because I hear they’ve really knocked the beast around in the past, and are still a wealth of information should one choose to look.
    Yeah, so how did LRon establish these engrams developed whilst a ‘sperm’? Did he interview one, and then compare that interview with one done when the individual was much older? You know, having the ludicrisy of what’s in this book spelled out to me really makes my opinion of Marty and his ilk take a massive dive. I mean, what sort of moron reads this and doesn’t wonder in the least how anyone could possibly have discovered or verified this wild theory. Marty gives off the initial impression of intelligence, and to be frank he has great potential to actually BE intelligent, but he’s so hung up on wanting to dissect everything with the expectation he’ll find what’s wrong without considering the wisdom, correctness and credibility of such a dissection. He blabs on and on about this author’s take on meditation, and this guys theories on the spirit, and some other bloke’s research on rah rah rah and I just want to take him by the shoulders and shake him. “Marty, for fuck’s sake man, it doesn’t matter how or why you are who you are… just BE, man… just BE! Put down the fucking book and go see the world for yourself!”

    • Sidney18511

      Marty had a pre-birth memory which he confirmed with his aunt. He “remembered” his mother receiving electric shock while he was still in utero. He claims that he had never heard this when he was a child, so this confirmed LRHs “truth” for him. Marty is still a worshiper of LRH, and in my opinion that won’t change anytime soon. He blames the fact that Scientology is so closed as the reason that no scientists have tested LRHs methods. That is a load of crap. LRHs books are available for anyone in that field to delve into and the bridge is all over the Internet. Legitimate scientists stay away from Scientology because they all KNOW it is bullshite.
      S

      • Chocolate Velvet

        Yes.
        In fact, scientists did examine LRH’s work right at the start, when Dianetics auditing was a bit of a fad in the US in the 50’s

        They examined it and rejected it as utter garbage. That is when Hubs declared psychiatry the root of all evil, and envious of him as their competition. Marty does not address this with any accuracy on his blog. He just regurgitates Hubbard’s lies and distortions. Probably because he doesn’t know any better. He has hidden from the truth for a long time.

        Judging from his posts, I doubt he has read much factual biographical information about Hubs. That can be a very painful thing for a formerly devout Scilon to do. Tory mentioned that she avoided reading about LRH until Wright’s book. I get that — it is hard to learn the truth about someone you admired, when that truth is ugly.

        IMO, Marty is skittish of Gerry Armstrong, because Gerry is an emblem of that ugly truth coming to light. When Marty finally reads Gerry’s many posts, and the books by Robert Kaufman, Jon Atack, Russel Miller, Kate Bornstein, and others who witnessed the lies and inurement of LRH, and the cover-ups by his loyal officers — well, that will be a bellwether in his personal process of shedding the cult programming.

        For now, it is clear he has not confronted reality about “Daddy Ron”.

        • Sidney18511

          Marty’s answer to EVERYTHING about his lying beloved LRH is………”he was just a man, and as all humans, he made some little mistakes”. No Marty. He was a monster.
          I would bet the barn, that he NEVER read or looked into any of the books and documents that CONFIRM Ron was a con.

          • Chocolate Velvet

            Yep, I think that’s very likely true. He is a total apologist for LRH, and his ignorance is patently obvious.

            Beyond that, Marty obviously has a very high tolerance for an environment of abuse and ends-justify-the-means thinking. He did, after all thrive brilliantly in the COS under the tiny tyrant for many years. That requires a certain type of personal character, and it’s not a healthy one.

            Of course, Marty is not the only one that is true for; but others, like Jesse Prince, have spoken out about the truth. They have acknowledged their own part in the situation. And they’ve paid a big price for it. I know the same can be said of Marty, up to a point. But my personal view is that he has not gone far enough, considering the McPherson case and other egregious situations that could use a hell of a lot more exposure.

            Marty is quite good at keeping his own ass covered, which is how he managed to hang in with DM for so long. That also includes ignoring the monstrous truth of what kind of men he has chosen to serve in his life.

            I continue to invite Marty to reclaim his humanity in full, as others have done. Not for his sake, but because that is the best chance for some kind of justice for those abused by him directly, or harmed by his complicity in the crazy…

          • Chocolate Velvet

            Yep, I think that’s very likely true. He is a total apologist for LRH, and his ignorance is patently obvious.

            Beyond that, Marty obviously has a very high tolerance for an environment of abuse and ends-justify-the-means thinking. He did, after all thrive brilliantly in the COS under the tiny tyrant for many years. That requires a certain type of personal character, and it’s not a healthy one.

            Of course, Marty is not the only one that is true for; but others, like Jesse Prince, have spoken out about the truth. They have acknowledged their own part in the situation. And they’ve paid a big price for it. I know the same can be said of Marty, up to a point. But my personal view is that he has not gone far enough, considering the McPherson case and other egregious situations that could use a hell of a lot more exposure.

            Marty is quite good at keeping his own ass covered, which is how he managed to hang in with DM for so long. That also includes ignoring the monstrous truth of what kind of men he has chosen to serve in his life.

            I continue to invite Marty to reclaim his humanity in full, as others have done. Not for his sake, but because that is the best chance for some kind of justice for those abused by him directly, or harmed by his complicity in the crazy…

          • Missionary Kid

            LRH is just a man like Hitler was just a man who made some mistakes.

        • Sidney18511

          Marty’s answer to EVERYTHING about his lying beloved LRH is………”he was just a man, and as all humans, he made some little mistakes”. No Marty. He was a monster.
          I would bet the barn, that he NEVER read or looked into any of the books and documents that CONFIRM Ron was a con.

      • EnthralledObserver

        A pre-birth memory might even have some remote possibility… well, no, it isn’t possible, but I mean I can see how some people could be tricked into thinking it’s possible if they had no knowledge on the scientific facts themselves prior – but isn’t a sperm just one of a man’s cells… a cell that the only way could/might record engrams would be to record engrams of the man himself, those things that happened to him – so now we’re ‘sharing’ engrams around… it doesn’t even have to have happened to you for you to have an engram. It’s total fucking nonsense with massive plot holes in his ‘story’. Bad fanfiction, as I like to call it… not even worthy of a ‘review’.
        People who swallow this sperm… story… have no perception of the ‘bigger picture’.
        Is it advisable to form a sentence with both ‘sperm’ and ‘swallow’ in it?

    • Bella Legosi

      Maybe the Hubs sperm engram meeting could have happened. He and parsons jacked off quite a bit on paper, my god those poor engram infested sperm. So do those engrams die off when the sperm drys up or do the survive and attatch themselves to whatever perverted deviant it comes into contact with it? It is questions like these that goes to show how the “genius” of old Hub is infantile atbest andZenu aside the most unoriginal blowhard to
      ever be given a typewriter.

      • N. Graham

        It depends how many body thetans have attached themselves to the sperm.

        • EnthralledObserver

          It depends on how many times that piece of paper was ‘used’…

      • FistOfXenu

        Someplace in a parallel 2 dimensional universe – okay, a 2D universe – there’s a piece of paper holding 2 metal strips wired to a flat e-meter, trying its damndest to audit its way through 100s of millions of engrams created by the meeting of Parsons’ and Hub’s sperm. “Go to a previous incident”

  • scnethics

    When I read all this crap, I was dumbfounded. No, I was just dumb. I told myself I was keeping what I was reading at arms length and remaining skeptical, but really I was hoping so much that it was possible to become a “clear”, my critical thinking was out the window. What I had really decided was that I would NOT disbelieve anything I read until I had tried Dianetics for myself.

    Here are all the reasons scientologists believe Dianetics even though most of them have never read the book, used it, or had any success with it:
    1. Dianetics is “out gradient” for most people. Hubbard grossly over-estimated the intelligence and ability of his contemporaries and created a therapy most of them were not capable enough to use correctly or benefit from.
    2. Drugs and chemicals, man. People take lots of drugs and chemicals, interfering with their ability to contact engrams and reduce them, er, man.
    3. It’s easy to find someone inside scientology who got hooked due to a wonderful experience with Dianetics. See? It works!
    4. We can’t say it’s obsolete, because that would be a “high crime” and get us in a shitload of trouble, but we all know scientology processing is so much more advanced, and that Dianetics as described in the first book, is obsolete. Wow! First Ron created the greatest therapy ever. Then he created a much gooder therapy! Then his therapy got so good you can’t even do it when you still have a body!

    5. We believe that when we did try it and it didn’t work, we were PTS or didn’t do it right. No need to go back and try it now, cuz we’ve got scientology!

    By the way, Dianetics is part of the Bridge still. You do it once you’ve reached a level where you are sure to zip all over your gazillion year timetrack instead of wasting your time on boring zygote stories.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Excellent points and so true. It’s also the reason why staff, Especially Sea Org! are kept from reading much of Hub’s books or getting training and auditing. You just get some of the wigged out customers trotted to your musters now and then to tell their “wins” from Product X. It’s why one Must write a success story and those stories only have a person’s initials, not their full names. I can guarantee that in any Sea Org today you would find maybe 5% of personnel have read Dianetics all the way through and could write an essay on it.

      I never read it, except a few paragraphs. I sometimes wonder how I did it, but I managed to game the system without realizing I was doing it while I was doing it. I got up to OT6 with only about 5 or 6 folders (auditing and ethics folders) over all those years. Except for Dianetics, as a sci fi enthusiast, I read all the “little books” which were supposed to be “out gradient” as fresh meat. Or perhaps a vivid imagination or I moved around a lot doing the artistic thing. But reading Dianetics? Couldn’t, Wouldn’t, Shouldn’t. Now you know why I’ve been bitching and moaning ever since Tony started dragging us all into his evil scientology classroom. I swear, though, I only peek in. heh

      • Missionary Kid

        Having to write a success story is psychologically a part of the brainwashing. If you don’t really believe, it’s a fake it ’til you make it type of ploy. One is rewarded for the appearance of desirable behavior, so one keeps displaying that behavior, whether or not they believe in it. Ultimately, that behavior becomes a part of the person’s personality.

    • CraftLass

      Thanks, that explains a whole lot! Gosh, communication (actual communication) really is the cure for cult mindsets. Seems like the most important rule in the whole shebang is the ban on talking to each other about things that any other group would naturally discuss. Even without talking to outsiders or reading “entheta”, if people inside could just talk to each other about their own real experiences the house of cards would have fallen decades ago.

  • aquaclara

    I love the match-up this morning! It is great to have Lisa Marie in the nomination today. She recognizes that she is a media spotlight, given her famous lineage. So when she stepped away from the cult, she didn’t have to say much for her actions to be noticed. Like Katie, sometimes even the very quiet actions speak loudest. I’m proud of her for protecting her kids and family, and for having the courage to step away from something she was raised in. It couldn’t have been easy. She also refrained from any couch-jumping over the years, which was a good thing.
    Operation Clambake has a well-earned place in the match-up, too. I’m sure it makes Davy’s list of “Most Unwanted Places” every day. For those of us on this side of the cult wall, it is appreciated as the place that exposes the cult’s fails, as the forum for those in the know to speak out and share, and as a repository for the vast mounds of information collected about the cult.
    Operation Clambake wins my vote today. I don’t know all the people and stories behind it, so I’ll just say thank you for all that you do, and well, keep it coming!

  • BosonStark

    Dianutty should be in the Guinness Book for least read best seller of the last century, as well as least scientific book parading as science, despite being peppered with phrases about “scientific fact.”

    On the other hand, The Kinsey Reports, starting with Sexual Behavior in the Human Male (1948) sold well, and although filled with tables and other data, fascinated the public and both books were read by most everyone who bought them. They are among the most influential scientific books of the last century, whereas of course, Hubbard’s book instead of being considered science, is thought of as monumental BS, except by his followers and authorities on the mind like Tom Cruise and Jenna Elfmann.

  • edsi in la is where some ones sperm is keep ?In The Allister Crawley Way.

  • Ze Moo

    Putting your children in a steam bath for 5 hours a day and giving them all the co$ vitamins is dangerous. The ‘I am sweating out my nyquil’ is just a sign of good cult programing. Got a future Sea Arrrgggghhher there. This picture is proof that the CO$ has violated the 93 IRS and FDA agreements. Did the CO$ make any promises to the FDA re their conduct?

    As sperm and egg don’t have any way to store impressions or feelings, how do they remember these things? The ‘race memory’ theory has been disproved by everyone who looked into it. If, like the Red Queen you can believe 5 impossible things before lunch, you have a future in the CO$. It is not much of a future, but then again you get to imagine your ‘whole track’. Remember that lifetime you were Grand Eunuch for Emperor Whatshisname?? Dianetics is a way to separate the potential clams from the skeptics. If you don’t laugh and throw the book down, you are potential fodder.

    Tusen Takk Andreas, this match is much better, #1 seed vs the #5 seed.

    • RMycroft

      Any bets that this kid didn’t have a Nyquil addiction, but was only given it once or twice during a cold, and that was the excuse for shoving him into a sauna?

      • Ze Moo

        We used to have Nyquil parties in college, but no one became addicted. Actual booze did the trick much better. I think the kid was just parroting something he been told. You have to start em young if you want em to give 1 billion years to Lron.

        • Missionary Kid

          Adding a bunch of booze to Nyquil (there’s booze in it) is not a good combination. Alcohol and antihistamines can have all sorts of consequences that vary from person to person.

          • Ze Moo

            It acted like a poor mans Quaalude more then any thing else. Nyquil on its own has 10% alcohol.

            • Missionary Kid

              The amount of alcohol in Nyquil is small. When added to the much larger amount of alcohol in drinks, the synergistic effect varies from person to person, just like the effects of different antihistamines.

              Some people go to sleep and some people become hyper, and some people become more intoxicated than they would be with just alcohol.

              BTW, a side effect of the antihistamine in Nyquil is that it temporarily enlarges the prostate. It may also act like anti-Viagra. If you’re young, that may not have much of an effect.

        • RMycroft

          You’ll probably find that modern Nyquil has been altered to prevent kitchen chemists from cooking it into meth or something. All the good cold remedies and nasal sprays were neutered years ago.

      • Ze Moo

        We used to have Nyquil parties in college, but no one became addicted. Actual booze did the trick much better. I think the kid was just parroting something he been told. You have to start em young if you want em to give 1 billion years to Lron.

    • CraftLass

      “Thinking occurs, of course, in the brain–principally in the top layers of the convoluted “gray matter” called the cerebral cortex. The roughly 100 billion neurons in the brain constitute the material basis of thought. The neurons are connected to each other, and their linkups play a major role in what we experience as thinking. But large-scale linking up of neurons doesn’t begin until the 24th to 27th week of pregnancy–the sixth month.

      By placing harmless electrodes on a subject’s head, scientists can measure the electrical activity produced by the network of neurons inside the skull. Different kinds of mental activity show different kinds of brain waves. But brain waves with regular patterns typical of adult human brains do not appear in the fetus until about the 30th week of pregnancy–near the beginning of the third trimester. Fetuses younger than this–however alive and active they may be–lack the necessary brain architecture. They cannot yet think.” – Carl Sagan and Anne Druyan

      The vast majority of abortions or even attempted abortions are so long before the brain is even slightly developed. Without advanced brain function there can not be memories.

      Hubbard was right that there were a heck of a lot of abortions and attempts in the 40s and 50s, it’s hard to figure out hard statistics due to people not wanting to admit to illegal activity but estimates suggest that it was fairly common. There is evidence that people have been going to great lengths to prevent having a child going back as far as we can research into private lives and medical care. However, considering that pretty much everyone has a lot of the issues he seems to blame on abortion attempts, he seems to be suggesting that pretty much every pregnancy was unwanted, which is obviously ridiculous. He also seems to ignore the fact that many abortion attempts have been to please the father, blaming the mother for it all. Hmmmm… You’d think he’d know that from personal experience.

      I wonder what he’d think about modern research that shows that sex during pregnancy is pretty good for everyone involved… Oh, wait, that’s actual science!

      I still don’t understand how anyone who believes in Dianetics can justify the pressure Sea Org women get to have an abortion. Yes, I know, this stuff is full of cognitive dissonance, but this is one area that I truly can’t wrap my head around. Is it that abortion is okay as long as it’s successful?

      I despise anyone who tells (or even tries to tell) a woman what she can or can’t do with her body. Scientology manages to piss me off in both directions. That is one heck of an accomplishment.

  • LRH got ideas from many places, not just his own imagination. The prenatal engram he probably got from Dr. Sadger (Dr. J. Sadger, “Preliminary Study of the Psychic Life of the Fetus and the Primary Germ.” PSYCHOANALYTIC REVIEW July 1941 28:3.) and he could well have read this when he was at Bethesda Hospital recovering from his supposed war injuries. Sadger wrote “so many a fall or other accident of a pregnant woman is
    nothing else than an attempt at abortion on the part of the
    unconscious, not to mention those cases where the mother seeks to
    free herself more or less forcibly from the unwanted child.” I tried to cover this more here; http://www.xenu.net/archive/lrhbare/lrhbare08.html

    • Sidney18511

      Jeff…this booklet is FANTASTIC! Recommended reading for anyone interested in the LRH. Did you write it?
      To any who are interested. The name is “The Hubbard is Bare”.

    • 0tessa

      Very interesting read. I have been looking for this data. Revealing.
      Thank you!

  • Everywhere you look there is criticism of Scientology. I bought a book called, “A Bridge Too Far”. It’s about World War Two!

    I think I owe a lot to Andreas Hendal-Lund. I know there were precedents but none of them made the mark he did. Would I being going to far to say that his is the foundation of the structure we all live in?

    Soon to become Mighty Korgo but I have to figure it out.

  • hogarthian

    As a never in…. I would never have known that Lisa Marie had been a scientologist had I not searched, by way of sites like clambake, and Tony.

    I think Lisa Marie is a class act, it’s taken me (and her) a while, but she’s a sister. She has been surrounded by madness from day one and yet, in spite of that, her common sense has prevailed. I think, I am sure, that Lisa Marie is one of those people who just ‘gets it’. She’s a good girl. And I think she has struggled (like every other poor brainwashed fucker) to sort herself out.

    However, I’m voting for clambake…. endless support for those that are emerging from the crazy parade.

  • Chocolate Velvet

    “Either way, these eternal wins that Scientology provides can apparently be wiped out by a little skepticism. Fancy that. I never did sort out that riddle.”

    Exactly.

  • Very glad to see more on the Scientology center for kids It’s disgusting

  • Robert Long

    Potential category for next year: Smersh Cartoon Chaos: South Park “trapped in the closet” vs. Upcoming Venture Bros. LRH episode.

  • villagedianne

    Actually, the idea that the spirit of the fetus enters the body before birth is pretty common in New Age/Spiritual philosophies. How far before birth the spirit enteres is supposed to vary from person to person. And since the spirit is said to remember everything subcousciously, there could be traumatic memories. Anyway what Hubbard says is pretty standard, though of course Hubbard expresses his ideas in the most off-putting way possible. However in this and much (not all) of what he writes generally he is just expressing what others have said before. Of course Hubbard expresses himself in an offensive and ugly style. And Hubbard used whatever truths he stumbled upon, to ultimately control and dis-empower people rather than to really help them.
    I voted for OCMB. For a long time that was one of the only anti-COS message boards on the net that wasn’t choked with spam and trolls, and it was a great resource when some of the early defectors spoke out, such as Tory. OCMB was a one-stop shop of info on COS.
    Oh, and I wonder what physical problems those kids in the Purif are being set up for later on, with those massive doses of vitamins and niacin.

  • villagedianne

    Actually, the idea that the spirit of the fetus enters the body before birth is pretty common in New Age/Spiritual philosophies. How far before birth the spirit enteres is supposed to vary from person to person. And since the spirit is said to remember everything subcousciously, there could be traumatic memories. Anyway what Hubbard says is pretty standard, though of course Hubbard expresses his ideas in the most off-putting way possible. However in this and much (not all) of what he writes generally he is just expressing what others have said before. Of course Hubbard expresses himself in an offensive and ugly style. And Hubbard used whatever truths he stumbled upon, to ultimately control and dis-empower people rather than to really help them.
    I voted for OCMB. For a long time that was one of the only anti-COS message boards on the net that wasn’t choked with spam and trolls, and it was a great resource when some of the early defectors spoke out, such as Tory. OCMB was a one-stop shop of info on COS.
    Oh, and I wonder what physical problems those kids in the Purif are being set up for later on, with those massive doses of vitamins and niacin.

    • Sidney18511

      In many cases he states that the theton enters the baby after birth. So how does he explain that they have pre-birth memories when they weren’t even there yet?

      • If I understood correctly the theory was that the GE or genetic entity had its own set of memories encoded at the cellular level which were distinct and separate from the thetan’s memories.

      • If I understood correctly the theory was that the GE or genetic entity had its own set of memories encoded at the cellular level which were distinct and separate from the thetan’s memories.

      • villagedianne

        Well whatever, some philosophies state that the spirit goes in and out of the fetus before birth, but that the spirit can hang out nearby the mother. So that would make these memories possible.

      • villagedianne

        Well whatever, some philosophies state that the spirit goes in and out of the fetus before birth, but that the spirit can hang out nearby the mother. So that would make these memories possible.

    • Sidney18511

      In many cases he states that the theton enters the baby after birth. So how does he explain that they have pre-birth memories when they weren’t even there yet?

  • villagedianne

    Actually, the idea that the spirit of the fetus enters the body before birth is pretty common in New Age/Spiritual philosophies. How far before birth the spirit enteres is supposed to vary from person to person. And since the spirit is said to remember everything subcousciously, there could be traumatic memories. Anyway what Hubbard says is pretty standard, though of course Hubbard expresses his ideas in the most off-putting way possible. However in this and much (not all) of what he writes generally he is just expressing what others have said before. Of course Hubbard expresses himself in an offensive and ugly style. And Hubbard used whatever truths he stumbled upon, to ultimately control and dis-empower people rather than to really help them.
    I voted for OCMB. For a long time that was one of the only anti-COS message boards on the net that wasn’t choked with spam and trolls, and it was a great resource when some of the early defectors spoke out, such as Tory. OCMB was a one-stop shop of info on COS.
    Oh, and I wonder what physical problems those kids in the Purif are being set up for later on, with those massive doses of vitamins and niacin.

  • Skydog

    It appears the best part of L.Ron Hubbard dripped down his mother’s leg.

  • Skydog

    It appears the best part of L.Ron Hubbard dripped down his mother’s leg.

  • mook
    • Sidney18511

      HIP, HIP, HOORAY!

    • Sidney18511

      HIP, HIP, HOORAY!

    • TonyOrtega

      Breaking? David Love posted that several days ago, and it regards a facility that was closed nearly a year ago. You’re slipping, Mook.

      • Sidney18511

        Well tony, that certainly burst my bubble!

  • Sherbet

    What I would like to see is a complete overhaul to OCMB. Some of the information is pretty old, and the main page just doesn’t look inviting. I know it’s a treasure — as is Andreas — but it needs some updating.

    • Sherbet

      Again with the down arrows?! I love OCMB, but it DOES need a facelift.

    • Sherbet

      Again with the down arrows?! I love OCMB, but it DOES need a facelift.

      • Sherbet

        Thank you, unknown person who agreed with me.

        • Observer

          Don’t let it bother you. If it’s someone disagreeing with you, fine. If it’s someone trying to stir you up, all you’re doing by commenting on it is giving them what they want. *waits for down arrows*

          • Sherbet

            You’re right, Observer. I really wasn’t offended, though. It amuses me.

            • Observer

              Everyone needs a hobby. ๐Ÿ˜‰

      • Unex Skcus

        A few posters have commented that they’ve accidentally hit the down arrow instead of the up – unaware I guess that you can click a second time to ‘undo’ it. OR, someone’s just testing it to ensure the down arrow still works; we don’t get much opportunity to use it. ๐Ÿ˜‰

        • FistOfXenu

          I found sometimes it happens when I’m about to click “up” on a new post just as that yellow bar next to new posts fades and the whole comment does a little shuffle to the left. If I my mouse is too close to the divider between the up and down arrow it shuffles the up arrow out from under my mouse and positions the down arrow under it just as I click. Presto, a down click. Took me awhile to discover you can click a 2nd time and undo your click.

      • FistOfXenu

        Didn’t you say you liked the down ones? ๐Ÿ˜€

        • Sherbet

          Nooooo…

          • FistOfXenu

            Oops

  • Sherbet

    What I would like to see is a complete overhaul to OCMB. Some of the information is pretty old, and the main page just doesn’t look inviting. I know it’s a treasure — as is Andreas — but it needs some updating.

  • dwayners13

    Does that mean I’m a suppressive person WITH an anti-social personality? For a second I was really worried, but then I remembered, there’s probably a course I can take at my local Ideal Org that will help me with that, for a small fee of course.

  • Roger Larsson

    To arrive to the basic-basic is to arrive to L. Ron Hubbards first moment in life. If his parents had protected themselves we had all gone BOOM or if his horny mother had made a blow-job on his father we had all gone yummy-yummy instead of basic-basic.

  • Roger Larsson

    To arrive to the basic-basic is to arrive to L. Ron Hubbards first moment in life. If his parents had protected themselves we had all gone BOOM or if his horny mother had made a blow-job on his father we had all gone yummy-yummy instead of basic-basic.

  • They say auditing works on everyone but sociopaths since they don’t have a conscience. So e meters read electric charge on the soul. Don’t know why I was so stupid either.

    • Roger Larsson

      The Essence of Scientology by Arnie Lerma

      Everything Hubbard says as the reason, is a shore story..

      Compare The supposed “Bridge to total Freedum”

      Crowley: “Do as thou whilst is the whole of the law”

      to what rises to the top of ALL totalitarian,fascist organizations:

      Sociopathy!!

      In Scientology the “Freedom FROM” is the relief from conscience

      The “Freedom TO”, is the freedom to destroy your enemies.

      In one of the old OT7 commands, there was one “Mock up a machine for destroying bodies” and you do this until your “needle is floating” (also a shore story), another way of saying that you do it

      until you no longer have a physiological response to considering that

      ACT by repetitive conditioning..

      This is the bridge to total sociopathy.

      Scientology does not get rid of your “reactive mind”, there is no

      such thing, that is a shore story to get you to try the (c) Hubbard cool aid..

      What scientology does do, and is good at,read any of the horror

      stories on the net or news, is to get rid of your conscience.

      In the book “Tremors in the Blood”
      – an expose of unreliability of

      Lie Detector examinations, used by Gov, Law Enforcement , CIA and BIG

      corporations… it is revealed that

      Sociopaths can fly through Lie Detector tests… undetected, because

      they have no emotional reaction to their crimes!!

      Perhaps that is WHY sociopaths have risen to
      control both

      Scientology AND our society, as intended. Perhaps that is the real

      reason CIA Lie Detectors / or Scientology E-meters and sec checks are

      used…. because they don’t really care about your dirt, except to use

      the “Leverage on rat brain” to control you, they both, secretly want

      to find the sociopaths and promote THEM to leadership positions..

      Arnie Lerma

      Lermanet.com Exposing the CON since 1994

      • Trustmeonthis

        Crowley also said “Love is the Law.” Somehow that part never gets repeated. Elron perverted Crowley just as much as everything else he stole.
        (To quote Addie Pray in Paper Moon: “I don’t even know what scruples are, but if you got any, you must have stole ’em from someone else!”)

        • Roger Larsson

          Preclears (scientologists) have a future as pokerplayers the day they haven’t got a CON to slave for in the best for the name if science.

  • DeElizabethan

    Regarding birth engrams IMO, imagination can be very useful. You want it, OK, you got it.

  • DeElizabethan

    Facebook Nazi, yo, now they have to be secret about dates, times. Yea! Anons are winning!

    • Johan

      Just the one or two that want to make fools of themselves……

  • DeElizabethan

    Purification Rundown. The key that was implanted in his mind shows. “I knew from the beginning that this was going to change my life!!!!”

    These poor kids are being brainwashed now and it will only get worse. Damn

  • Trustmeonthis

    I can’t even make a snotty comment. Seeing those kids’ faces is breaking my heart.

  • DeElizabethan

    Talking with a non scio recently, I discovered that he had for years been watching OCMB for his info. I was surprised, and it showed me how effective and is used by wogs.
    He hadn’t heard about Lisa. I now have her t-shirt which I look forward to wearing downtown CW especially walking in front of a scio so they can see the back “cult/evil” and “you ain’t seen nothin’ yet”.

    • stillgrace

      Good for you, Dee! I want one, too! Let us know if you get any reactions!

      • DeElizabethan

        Sure will. Yes, a neat shirt that can be worn anywhere.

        • stillgrace

          I wish I could find where to buy the WOG cap that has the alien face for the “O”! I’d get one for you, too, just to complete your outfit!

          • DeElizabethan

            Hey thanks. I’ve got many hats and now have an idea. Use a marker on one of them for the outfit.

  • 0tessa

    Dianetics Unveiled – once and for all!

  • Trustmeonthis

    Calling all parents: Jenna could use some support over on babycenter:

    http://blogs.babycenter.com/mom_stories/03142013leaving-scientology/

    • Sherbet

      Louanne is blathering rudely, as usual. Funny how scns think “the truth” is found only in a cos-blessed website. What if the Louannes of the world had the courage to read independent, unbiased studies of cos — what educators say about the learning tech, what physicians say about purif, what addiction counselors say about narconon, what theologians say about the “church” of scientology, what electrical engineers say about the emeter, what the law says about Operation Snow White? This is the beauty of this blog: it’s populated by people who have lived on both sides, or at least have studied both sides.

    • SP ‘Onage

      Will do. What baffles me is, why doesn’t Louanne change her sock-puppet name? She’s such a bust.

      • And she keeps using the creepy-eyeball avatar, too.

        • SP ‘Onage

          HA! Xenubarb’s comment made her look so dumb.

          Louanne has two brain cells: one is in a wheelchair and the other one is pushing. xD

    • N. Graham

      Done! As Al N.

    • ParticleMom

      I’m a longtime member there…heading over…

  • Jgg2012

    Actually, you DO need to call your local org nowadays to see if its still open.

  • sugarplumfairy

    “… Weโ€™ll just assume Mace-Kingsley dials back the hours for the youngsters…”

    and hopefully, the dosages..

    • dbloch7986

      I was maybe 11 or 12 when I did my Purif. I was taking 5,000 mg niacin a day and lord knows how much of the other vitamins. Maybe 1,000 B1. Same dosages, 5 hours a day in the sauna.

      • sugarplumfairy

        Amazing.. The recommended daily dose for kids 9 -13 is 12 mg/day..

      • aquaclara

        Sorry, Derek, this is so wrong. You were a kid and were supposed to be taken care of by the adults around you. How you managed to escape, I’ll never know. Thank heavens you did.
        Kids aren’t supposed to be in saunas – they don’t have the same ability to sweat as adults, so it can be very dangerous to them. If by any chance a PARENT wanted to allow their child in a sauna, the max time recommended is 5 minutes. AND with a doctor’s supervision, because there are certain health conditions that are made significantly worse by exposure to these types of conditions.
        On top of that, the vitamin regimen poses a danger to kids.
        That supposedly happy picture has bothered me all day. It is nothing short of child abuse.

        • dbloch7986

          That picture is obviously a posed stock photo. Most people are exhausted after a couple of hours.

  • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

    If you do not want an 135 I.Q., amazing vitality, and radiant health, then we in RTC highly recommend that you keep reading as Ortega and Woodward jabber on about what they don’t know about Scientology and never will. These two lumps of coal are obviously attempted abortion cases who are walking proof that engrams exist.

    In the meantime, we in the Church of Scientology keep growing more each day. Why just yesterday the news off the telex here at RTC was that the new Pope is a New OT VII from the Buenos Aires Ideal Org.

    Begin your Bridge today at Flag and enjoy the benefits of Clear in as little as six weeks!

    http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n196/scienowriter/clear-ad_zps23c06ef9.jpg

    • Sherbet

      “Two lumps of coal” — Hilarious!

    • i-Betty

      Hehe ๐Ÿ˜€

    • DeElizabethan

      As little as 6 weeks or 1400 hours, whichever is the longest, eh?

      • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

        6 weeks, 1400 hours, nine years, eighteen months, Eternity.

        It really does not matter because a level takes as long as it takes and the only way out is through. We know this is tough for you bitter defrocked apostates to confront, but the datum is true and comes straight from Fleet Admiral David Miscavige.

        http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a563/OTVIIIisGrrr8/FADM12_zpsf0dedcfc.png

        • Del Ling

          With the amount of egg yolk on the cap(? hat?) and all the heavy medals it’s a wonder the midg.. – sorry, ‘tiny despot’ – doesn’t fall over.

    • Bella Legosi

      With all this entheta onthis blog…what wonderous Tech kees you so faithful and full of attack? Do you really enjoy what the demented Little Boots or his pions make you read everyday? ๐Ÿ™‚

  • sugarplumfairy

    By the way.. Y’all are invited to my place Friday night for a belated lrh b-day bash! If you can’t exorcise those body thetans , you can at least get them sloshed!! Come and create some major wicked engrams!!

    Out of the kindness of my heart, I am unable to post DATE/LOCATION, but I promise you won’t be regged at this event..

    • Trustmeonthis

      I am so there! You can reg me if you wanna! ๐Ÿ˜›

      • sugarplumfairy

        Yeah!!

    • Couch_Incident

      I can’t make it, but my body thetans will be there!

      • sugarplumfairy

        Cool.. I’ll make some teeny tiny Irish Car Bombs just for them..

      • Vodky thetans?

        • sugarplumfairy

          We got ’em..

      • FistOfXenu

        Just exteriorize and zero in on SPF. Simple enough right?

        • Observer

          Just make sure it’s light out. Wouldn’t want your exteriorized self to trip over the patio furniture and fall into the pool.

    • dbloch7986

      You’re probably far from me ๐Ÿ™ Or I would go

      by the way you somehow have a negative 1 vote down, so I think that counts as a vote up? Technically 7 votes up!

      • sugarplumfairy

        I’m coming to LA again in the summer.. =)

        • dbloch7986

          Well make sure we get to visit!

    • DeElizabethan

      I’ll be there Sugar with my dancin’ shoe on and a bottle, flowers in my hair and clear weather for the parade.

      • stillgrace

        LOL, Dee. Only one dancing shoe? I have this wonderful image of you dancing on one foot.

        • DeElizabethan

          Hahaaaaaaaa! Me too!

      • sugarplumfairy

        Yay! I love a parade..

    • N. Graham

      Don’t tell Jo Jo. She’ll show up and act the fool.

      • sugarplumfairy

        Lol.. Let her come.. We’ll love bomb her totalitarian butt.. And if that doesn’t work, we’ll get her blitzed and take over her Facebook page.. She’ll friend every SP out there..

        • The Dakini

          LOL!

    • The Dakini

      Count me in. In spirit. Just mine though. Theatens will have stay home to let the dogs out to potty, give insulin shot, and serve dinner. The only best for my fur children.

  • Espiando

    Clambake would win this vote just due to one action: Andreas’ unprompted act of kindness toward Magoo. Little did they know the dividends that act would generate eight years later when Anon came on the scene, and those dividends are still paying today.

    Andreas created a safe zone away from the astroturfing the cult did on a.r.s. He established a location where everyone could speak freely, even Scientrolls. Marc Headley’s revelations were first posted there when everyone was still wondering who BlownForGood really was. Little Bear Victor’s posts opened a lot of eyes. Swiftie’s theories sparked a great deal of thought and discussion (and we’re glad he’s here to continue that tradition). And that’s just the message board. The document repository turned out to be a one-stop crash course on CoS. I can’t understate how valuable it was for me when I donned the mask.

    Let me make a bad analogy: local Anon boards are Class IV Orgs. Lermanet is a pre-1982 mission. WWP is a Celebrity Center. ESMB and ESK are Advanced Orgs. Clambake is Flag.

  • Karen715

    Just yesterday, I posted that young, vulnerable, depressed-and-desperate me might have become ensnared if I had had the energy to read further into Dianetics. Now, I’m thinking: Maybe not. I think the sperm and egg engrams would have gone so thoroughly against my understanding of science that I would have bailed after reading it. But who knows?

    My vote went to OCMB. Operation Clambake is a vital resource.

    • CraftLass

      There are moments where I feel the same way – that I could have been sucked in at certain points in my life.. But I’ve always sucked at cognitive dissonance and there are a few things that one encounters from the beginning that would have immediately turned me off, whether my introduction was through Dianetics or through the OCA and TRs. Totally with you on the sperm and egg engrams, or even engrams created before I, as a fetus, was about 7 months old. Heck, that would have seemed weird even before I did a ton of reading on fetal development!

      Great, now I find myself wondering what LRH thought about adoption. After all, there are women with no desire to be mothers who don’t attempt to abort. My bio mom was one of those, from my understanding (we have never met and all I know is she was pretty hardcore Catholic).

      I think it’s good that we can grasp how we might have been ensnared, though, as it allows us to be compassionate towards those who were and are rather than judgmental. There’s enough of the latter in this world and it helps no one.

  • CraftLass

    Ahhh… At last, an easy matchup! Lisa Marie has never made headlines for acting like a crazy Scieno celeb, she’s a household name but not really on her own merit, and people already thought she was a bit odd for marrying a guy who was either utterly asexual or a pedophile (at least in the eyes of the general population). To people who just think CoS is a wackier-than-usual religion, being in it has been far from her weirdest trait. She never jumped on a couch on popular television. She didn’t make a crazy video that sparked Anonymous to look into this stuff and create a movement. She’s barely ever been on my radar and I worked in her industry for a long time. She’s subtle. That makes me admire her, but against Operation Clambake? Nah, not a chance. I think you have to be pretty into celebrity news (or researching this “church”) to even pay much attention to her unless a big fan of her music.

    When Katie busted out and I heard “Sea Org” and ran to Google, ESK is where I landed first but I didn’t really understand what I was reading there. Clambake helped me sort it out. That was Day One of my interest. It was the first place I read names that I now mention regularly. When reading books about CoS I usually have some device pointed to Clambake in case I need to look something up. It’s a treasure. It’s what the internet should be. Easily digestible yet full of information, not to hard to navigate, it’s a great introduction yet also has depth.

    And, as others have mentioned, Andreas set a whole lot in motion just by being a kind wog who actually cared about a stranger in the grip, and look at the dominoes that fell due to that kindness! It’s inspirational, just the act of being a nice person can work wonders! Now, that is the kind of morals and values I can get behind. ๐Ÿ™‚

  • CraftLass

    As far as kids doing the purif, Jenna’s book certainly makes it sound like she had to do the whole thing at age 9 (even though her detailed account of it was of her second one as a teen). No concession to age. Poor kids, most public saunas don’t even allow children in for a minute due to the dangers and liability! Would the belief that kids are just adults in smaller bodies even allow them to alter the purif for children?

    One question I’ve never seen addressed: Are these saunas or steam rooms? Dry or moist heat? It’s a silly point, since neither should be used for such a length of time even if one is an adult, but it’s one of those stupid things that my brain nags me about. lol Also, dry vs. wet could really affect one’s oiliness.

  • “Papa hits mama, baby gets an engram.”
    His examples are sooo creepy.

    • sugarplumfairy

      In my world, papa hits mama, papa gets an engram.. and a restraining order..

      • N. Graham

        Or a free ride in a police car.

      • EnthralledObserver

        Why is it that if Mama smacks Papa around there is no engram formed? :p

        • sugarplumfairy

          Cause there’s no such thing as frking engrams?? =)

    • FistOfXenu

      Even yrs ago I always wondered if he was talking about his own family life and trying to work out if he could blame being a psychopath on his parents.

  • dbloch7986

    Sentient sperm and ova — I guess that speaks for itself.

    I did the purif when I was 11 or 12. I was taking 5,000 mg of Niacin a day towards the end. I was taking 1,000 mg of B1 and megadoses of A, E, B5, etc. Spent 5 hours a day in the sauna. Same as everyone else. I couldn’t wait to take my shower afterwards.

    The worst part is that if you don’t finish your purif within 1 month you are sent to ethics for an “ethics” handling because if you are still feeling dizzy and disoriented after those megadoses of vitamins after 30 days you’re obviously a criminal.

    • Child abuse.

    • richelieu jr

      You say that like it’s bad thing.

      • dbloch7986

        It is. Note how 50mg is a “high dose”….

        “Precautions:

        Because of the potential for side effects and interactions with medications, you should take dietary supplements only under the supervision of a knowledgeable health care provider.

        High doses (50 mg or more) of niacin can cause side effects. The most common side effect is called “niacin flush,” which is a burning, tingling sensation in the face and chest, and red or flushed skin. Taking an aspirin 30 minutes prior to the niacin may help reduce this symptom.

        At the very high doses used to lower cholesterol and treat other conditions, liver damage and stomach ulcers can occur. Your health care provider will regularly check your liver function through a blood test.

        People with a history of liver disease, kidney disease, or stomach ulcers should not take niacin supplements. Those with diabetes or gallbladder disease should do so only under the close supervision of their doctor.

        Stop taking niacin or niacinamide at least two weeks before a scheduled surgery.

        Niacin and niacinamide may make allergies worse by increasing histamine.

        People with low blood pressure should not take niacin or niacinamide because they may cause a dangerous drop in blood pressure. Don’ t take niacin if you have a history of gout.

        People with coronary artery disease or unstable angina should not take niacin without their doctor’ s supervision, as large doses can raise the risk of heart rhythm problems.

        Taking any one of the B vitamins for a long period of time can result in an imbalance of other important B vitamins. For this reason, you may want to take a B complex vitamin, which includes all the B vitamins.

        Source: http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/vitamin-b3-000335.htm#ixzz2NYPzPsEz
        Follow us: @UMMC on Twitter | MedCenter on Facebook”

        • N. Graham

          Good points! And also, a lot of people on the Purif Rundown are probably doing it because of alcohol. Those people are doing possible SERIOUS damage to their liver with the Niacin overdose.

        • EnthralledObserver

          As a wog I’m uninformed… what is the ‘megadoses’ of these vitamins etc supposed to achieve. I read the sauna was supposed to help you sweat out the ‘drugs’ or impurities, but what are the vitamins supposed to do according to LRon, and why did he choose the ones he did, like niacin? I could go look this up, but I’m lazy and I’, hoping someone else might do the work… haha. (Well, I have other stuff to do, my dog had puppies yesterday) :p

          • i-Betty

            Congrats!

          • dbloch7986

            The idea behind the purif is that drugs are stored in fat so somehow sweating will release them. It has long since been proven that you do not actually sweat out fat. Sweat is water and uric acid. Neither one of which stores drugs for any extended period of time.

            The Niacin is supposed to release stored radiation from the sun and electronic equipment. In the book “All About Radiation” Hubbard explains how Niacin is supposed to cure radiation poisoning.

            Both theories have been disproved long ago. The Purification Rundown is just part of the indoctrination process. I think it wears someone down physically so that a person is more receptive to further indoctrination.

          • grundoon

            The physical reaction makes it easier for people to believe Hubbard’s claim that the treatment is somehow radiation related.

            In 1958 L. Ron Hubbard got in trouble with the FDA for pushing a niacin-based quack formula he called Dianazene. https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/dianazene-runs-out-radiation-i-e-dianazene-cures-radiation.78218/

            Hubbard’s first son, Ron DeWolfe (born L. Ron Hubbard, Jr.) explained in 1982: “Now, if you take a great deal of niacin, you get these incredible flushes, like a rash. You get hot, flush, your body would turn red in spots or over the whole thing. And this was proof — this was proof that you were running out or eradicating all of your entire space-opera, old- track radiation.” http://www.lermanet.com/82cwcommission/2-061-080.htm

        • richelieu jr

          erm.. That was a joke, Derek… ๐Ÿ˜‰

          • dbloch7986

            Haha sorry Richelieu, I didn’t know if you were one of those people that honestly believed that huge doses of vitamins like that are good for you. There are some believers out there.

            • richelieu jr

              Nah man, I hear you. Coming from where you do you must have heard so much truly insane bullshit that anything seems possible!
              I used to take niacin for fun when I was a kid, because I liked to feel my skin burn…

            • dbloch7986

              I heard that we couldn’t have possibly gone to the moon because Hubbard said in a lecture that there is a giant alien force field around earth (about 50 miles up) and no one could pass through it (also know as the Van Allen Belts maybe?).

              I also heard that the Trilateral Commission is a bunch of psychiatrists trying to rule the world by using drugs.

              I also heard that niacin can cure you of radiation exposure after a nuclear blast.

              I also heard that one day aliens will come and destroy earth and we’ll have to start over again.

              Aliens are running the government.

              We all used to be in a prison calls Arslykus on some asteroid.

              Chemtrails.

              The list goes on.

              So yes I have heard lots of crazy stories.

              Niacin can be energizing actually. So can megadoses of vitamins. It can feel good sometimes to take that many vitamins, at least for a bit. Before your liver fails.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      damnation. You mean they really do the whole program exactly on children? And ethics if you don’t finish in a month? Was this in Sea Org? This is officially the worst Purif story I’ve heard, including my own (I was one of the guinea pigs with other SO and it was a nightmare).

      This is pure child abuse. So sorry you had to experience this.

    • N. Graham

      That’s despicable. You’re lucky if you have no permanent damage.

  • Whoever this 10 year old is I, for one, salute him; Miscavige should grab him and train him personally as he truly has a mini-me in the making!

    Speaking of the angry dwarf I was just wondering if there was any possibility, i.e. a proper “legal” possibility of putting a citizen’s arrest on him? I know he’s pretty close to losing his mind completely and there’s nothing like feeding his paranoia for the lulz…. imagining every time he dares to appear anywhere in public that he might get arrested by a ‘wog’ might just increase the angle of his tipping point into genuine straightjacketness.

    • N. Graham

      He’s probably too oily to catch that way.

  • richelieu jr

    I thought FaceBook was no longer allowing people to use made-up names… There’s no way “Jo Jo Zawawi” can be a real name, can it?

    It sounds like a name someone would make up on the spot for the cops.. “My name, officer, Why it’s Joe.. Joe…”
    “Jo-Jo?”
    “Yes, Officer.”
    “Like the Beatles song?”
    “Ha-ha, I’d never thought of that! That’s really–”
    “You got a lost name, ‘Jo-Jo?”
    “Yes, sir… It’s Za…wa…(unintelligible)”
    “Za-wa what?’
    “”Zawa..wha..wee! Jo-Jo Zawawi, that’s my name all right!”
    “Zawawi… You Polish or sumpin’?”
    “Armanian, actually…”
    “What do you do, Ms. Zawawi?”
    “Oh, I’m a professional liar on the Internet… What can I say? I love my church!”

    • The Dakini

      You can use a nom de plume publicly on FB, just not on Google+. I’m trying to figure out if that’s Jojo in the avatar or someone else.

    • i-Betty

      Funny ๐Ÿ™‚

    • coonellie

      Oh, I needed this laugh more than you know!!! Merci beaucoup, mon ami!

  • 1subgenius

    Doh! I just noticed the pic of Woody.

  • Swiss Guy

    Dear Mr. Ortega,

    My warning that I’ll no more will read your blog, if you don’t report factually about Scientology and Dianetica or LRH – I didnt follow it.

    I still read your blog and sometimes I like it and sometimes not. I would be happy if you really could get all data and not just make Fun or being full of cynisme about things you didn’t really investigate, but just have an cynical opinion of.

    Here some more data about Prenatal and perinatal psychology:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenatal_and_perinatal_psychology or just google those terms.

    Why don’t you interview Indies and ask for their opinions about dianetics !
    Why didn’t you try out to get audited in Dianetics and report about it. I bet Marty would you be willing to give you some sessions if you honestly want to try it out or some other Indies !

    It’s true there is lots of Nonsense in Dianetics of 1950, but there is modern Dianetics (1978) which is totally different and sometimes even tells the contrary of what was written in 1950.

    It’s like reporting about how limited DOS from Microsoft is and making fun it, how primitive it is while not knowing there is Windows 8. Perhaps this is a bad analogy as Win 8 has lots of nonsense, but I try to get my idea over to you !

    Let’s start the fun. I’m curious about the comments !

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      I’ve got an idea….how bout you keep reading and maybe you will eventually realize that all of LRH’s writing is garbage. So it’s OK to you to follow a revision when the original is so clearly made-up trash? It’s OK for you to take what you like (which could be obtained through various other means of counseling) and ignore the rest even tough the boss man said it was ALL true ALL the time? Nice try.

      • Swiss Guy

        I ran out some engrams and it worked to a certain degree. And that is my experience, whatevver you peoplew tell or write. Why not report about people that ran out real engrams ????

        This doesn’t mean I believe anything in Dianetics or Scientology. Running out engrams was the most fascinating experience in my life. And so I think somewhere there is something about it, which camouflaged by all the nonsense that was written in Dianetics and Scientology.It could be that one day a scientists comes along and says “Eureka ! Lrh was right about that there are engrams !”

        Nevertheless it’s very fun to read the posts here !

        • Captain Howdy

          “It could be that one day a scientists comes along and says “Eureka ! Lrh was right about that there are engrams !””

          They already did except they decided to call it the sub-conscious and repressed memories.

        • Mrs Libnish

          LSD is a fascinating experience too! And far healthier. You will wake up one day and realize that engrams aren’t real dood.

          • FistOfXenu

            You really think he’ll get to do OTVIII?

        • Couch_Incident

          I think there are *scientific* studies showing that just talking about past upsetting memories (however, be it Diuretics or Psychoanalysis, etc.) helps the patient feel better. Probably related to actually processing the upsetting event, particularly if you are older and wiser now. No magic unique to Diuretics.
          Also, if the truth is objective (unlike what Scn asserts), as F. Hayek points out, you would expect any belief system that endures to evolve toward the same truth. In any event, why choose as your starting point a mess like Diuretics?

    • sugarplumfairy

      Why don’t you try auditing? Said the spider to the fly.. Don’t get pissed at the fly for being wary enough to avoid the web..

    • dbloch7986

      Dear Mr. Swiss Guy,

      May I have some swiss cheese? I think comparing swiss to havarti is like comparing DOS to windows. You know? Sort of like comparing a cow to a chicken or a horse to a venus fly trap. It all makes a lot of sense. Especially when you start thinking about how aliens blow up volcanoes with atom bombs while showing movies to everyone.

      http://www.scientology.org You should check it out, it’s cool. Doing Scientology is like eating toblerone, but without milk.

      I like cookies.

      I hate comments, but I am curious about the flowers. Have fun!

      • Swiss Guy

        LOL !!!!!

      • whingeybingey

        What kind of Philistine would eat toblerone without milk!

    • Couch_Incident

      Alternatively, Tony could report on the double-blind studies of the Placebo Effect, not only for medications, but for talk therapy and other interventions (subliminal tapes) as well.

    • Ze Moo

      Prenatal psychology is in its infancy (pun intended) and is somewhat controversial. There aren’t enough interconnected brain cells to do much before the fetus is 6-7 months old. While there is evidence that some psych problems like depression and anxiety can be transmitted to the fetus, there is no evidence of lasting harm as long as things get to ‘normal’ after the birth. Getting audited, by which method? Dianetics 1950 or 1978 or Scientology 1960 or 2013? If you really believe Lron, you have to use the earliest version of either as no change is allowed.

      • Swiss Guy

        The ideas about prenatal psychology existed before Dianetics (Freud). And here and interesting quote from a website:

        ” Santa Barbara Graduate Institute offers MA, PhD, and Certificate programs in Clincial, Somatic, and Pre- and Perinatal Psychology within both Distance Formats and Monthly-On-Campus Formats.
        The foundations of psychology are shifting as new information arises from diverse fields such as quantum physics, neurobiology, infant mental health and complementary medicine. Our current knowledge of trauma, early attachment, and brain development is changing psychotherapeutic practice. A new synergy is being created as leading-edge science, ancient wisdom and concepts of spirituality coalesce.

        This new research and clinical practice puts Santa Barbara Graduate Institute (SBGI) on the forefront of the next wave of consciousness, health and body-mind-spirit healing. We see an increasing need for professionals equipped with knowledge, skills and vision to help sculpt this new territory.

        Within the context of clinical psychology, Santa Barbara Graduate Institute offers comprehensive, integrated graduate programs in the dynamic fields of somatic psychology and prenatal and perinatal psychology. Our weekend and distance formats make it possible for students and faculty from all over the world to gather and hone the tools for these emerging, vital disciplines.”

        I can’t judge if that Institute is scientific. You Americans should know and tell me !

        • Swiss Guy

          Dear Ze Moo,

          You said:
          ” If you really believe Lron, you have to use the earliest version of either as no change is allowed”

          I don’t understand this, why are you talking such nonsense. I didn’t say I beklieve in Lron. Why should I. I had experiences with dianetics that were good, this doesn’t mean I believe in somebody !

    • You sir, obviously don’t get the point of this blog. We here aren’t just against DM and his CofS, but $cientology in general. It is nothing but a bunch of idiocy written by a psychopath. Oh and u should really try some wog education, cuz you spelling and grammar are atrocious.

      • Swiss Guy

        Sure my Grammar is atrocious , also the spelling. But if you want we can discuss in french or German. How is you grammar in those languages ?

        • Sandy

          good one! Zing!

        • Captain Howdy

          What , no Italian ?

          • Swiss Guy

            Nessun problema il mio amico.

            Just some Italian but all my kids speak about 4-5 languages !

            • Captain Howdy

              I use to know a Swiss Italian girl named Barbara …va-va-va-voom ! The only other language most Americans speak is a smattering of Spanish so we can get cheap labor to exploit or buy good drugs

            • EnthralledObserver

              lol

        • Trustmeonthis

          Ich weiss nicht.

        • montananut

          Ah, showing off your multi-lingual talents to distract from the original point. That sounds about right for a $cilon.

    • N. Graham

      I can see you don’t have much agreement here, but I wanted to tell you that I liked your DOS/Windows 8 analogy. But I’m afraid that while DOS has a scientific basis, the beginning of the argument here against it is that it has no scientific basis and there is no scientific proof it works. In over 60 years, no reputable study has been performed that shows any truth to Mr. Hubbard’s writings.

      Just curious, what did you think was nonfactual in Mr. Ortega’s writings?

      Thanks for the input Mr. Guy and good luck in your quest.

      • Swiss Guy

        Dianetics was a book written in 1950 and it’s true that there is no real scientific basis to it and also lots of nonsense ! I read it (I had to on course) about 3-4 times, but mostly my head was spinning when I tried to understand it. Mr. Ortega helped a lot with his remarks about Dianetics (some are really very insightful) that this spinning went away and I had to laugh about it.

        Nevertheless I’ve studied Modern Dianetics (HSDC) and I had not problem to understand those principles and had several 100ds of Auditing hours recieved and given 100d’s of hours. This worked like a clock. It didn’t result in “Homo Novis” or Super beings but in more hapiness and health and lots of fun !

        Just recently I could observe a psychologist applying similar principles to a relative of ours and it resulted in a person that went from a psychosis to a normal happy being ! So this principle of finding an earlier similar incident seems to work and helps people to free themselves of burden of the past.

        It’s a pity that yet no scientific studies were done on those people claiming of having been helped by Dianetics. I’ve have seen people being cured of all kind of illnesses and also neurosis.

        Grammar Ok Nichole ?

        • sugarplumfairy

          Happy to hear you admit that the psychologist helped your family member.. I would be interested in hearing how much that treatment cost your family, vs. the cost of scientology..

        • Del Ling

          First, there is nothing scientific about any of LRHs writings. If something is scientific there has to be studies supporting it.

          An analogy: Mel Brooks once said there is two approaches to humor (I’m paraphrasing from memory): The exact delivery where you make few jokes that go into precision and need to get it right more or less every time. The second approach is (what he said he himself did) spray and pray, if you cram as many jokes as possible into a movie or a skit some of them will be funny.

          Good science is based on the first approach, it’s based on studies, observations and the best of the knowledge in the relevant field (at the time). LRH used the latter approach and sometimes got something right, I’ve seen claimed somewhere that he used theories from early Freud as some inspiration, the field of psychology has evolved quite a lot since then even if he did get something ‘right’ at the time.

          Talking about what has happened and putting things into context can be good in some cases and is a part of the toolbox used by professionals. It should be done by trained professionals with a whole toolbox however – not amateurs who read a book or two (LRH fantasies or not).

          Anecdotal evidence ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence ) is not valid as proof, no matter how many stories there are. The power of placebo is strong and those that are ‘cured’ might fall ill again.

          Regarding scientific studies into LRH methods:
          “The MEDLINE database records two independent scientific studies on Dianetics, both conducted in the 1950s under the auspices of New York University. Harvey Jay Fischer tested Dianetics therapy against three claims made by proponents and found it does not effect any significant changes in intellectual functioning, mathematical ability, or the degree of personality conflicts; Jack Fox tested Hubbard’s thesis regarding recall of engrams, with the assistance of the Dianetic Research Foundation, and could not substantiate it.” – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dianetics#Scientific_evaluation_and_criticisms

        • dbloch7986

          NO one has ever been cured of anything by Dianetics in the entire history of that book. Anything that anyone has told you to the contrary is a lie.

          Like a typical Scientologist you confuse causation and correlation. You choose to believe that because one thing happened, followed by another thing then the first must have caused the second.

          Because I have a cold, and then I get Dianetic auditing, and then the cold goes away, you would assume it is because of the auditing. Not that it would have anything to do with the fact that the cold ran its natural course and my immune system kicked its ass.

          Or if you do think that it was my immune system then you would think something like, “well it healed a good three days earlier than normal so that is a win.”

          I have also been a deluded Scientologist. I know how the game is played and how hard Scientologists work to convince themselves that their wins are real.

          Also just because you might perceive some unrelated similarity between psychology and Dianetics does not mean either one of the two have anything to do with each other. Dianetics is nothing like psychology and vice versa. Your eyes deceive you.

          Just like your metaphor between “modern dianetics” and “windows 8”, you are drawing comparisons where none exist.

          And to say that Tony helped you “understand” Dianetics shows you aren’t even reading what he is saying. What he is saying is that there is NOTHING to understand about Dianetics. It’s just a stupid book written by a stupid man.

          Sorry if this post is a bit aggressive but I can see that you are still trying to sell Scientology to people and I don’t like it.

        • montananut

          actually, no, the grammar is still horrendous

    • SP ‘Onage

      “My warning that I’ll no more will read your blog.”

      I thought you said that last time. How many more warnings are you going to give, Tony?

      • FistOfXenu

        Broken promises. Like $cientarCONon.

    • The Dakini

      Do you guys work off a script or something? Maybe a keyword list? Just curious.

    • Sidney18511

      Bye bye Swiss guy. Don’t let the door hit you in the arse when your leaving.

  • Ze Moo

    https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/how-many-orgs-are-actually-open.109590/

    Pedrofcuk calls a lot of Morgs all over the world and finds that US and Canadian Morgs usually answer the phone while elsewhere, only 1/2 answer.

    • DeElizabethan

      Pedro is Grreeeaaat! What a neat thread and all the pictures in the videos. Love him!

  • N. Graham
    • The Dakini

      Nice avatar upgrade with the hat NG. Very festive. Now if you could do something with that face, hmmmmm…

  • chisheila

    Engrams. How stupid. How many times has anyone actually run a real, this-lifetime incident involving unconsciousness that cured them from following words spoken that act as commands that they were forced to comply with later in life? Answer: NONE.

    Some have had emotional incidents they later forgot. That’s Freudian psychotherapy. Not engrams. Not Scientology.

    And as far as remembering prior to birth – um, no. Memory is a brain function. Permanent memories are not formed until the age of 2 or so because the brain does not become that developed. That’s science. That’s fact.

    Pre-birth impressions based on some senses – sense of pressure, for example, isn’t impossible. That would not include literate (word) memory as that isn’t developed in a fetus. There is also such a thing as genetic “memory”, but it doesn’t work like normal brain memory so IMO, shouldn’t even be called memory as such because it confuses people. Mice have demonstrated generational learning in blind studies by running the same maze faster than previous generations. IMHO, the genetic learning is triggered by a tactile sense when the maze is begun. I believe this because with Alzheimers and other physical problems that result in brain memory loss, the individual still retains tactile sense memories (i.e., touching a car key triggers response to put it in the ignition slot.)

    Dianetics was disproven over half a century ago. Hubbard was wrong – come up to the present, Scientologists.

  • Mrs Libnish

    Ya. Like a 10 year old has a bunch of toxins to get rid of and would really express it in that manner. Right.

  • i-Betty

    No question for me, it was OCMB, which has been my go-to for a long time. I will never forget the video of Andreas being confronted by a scientologist when he and Tory were protesting, and the gentle, calm, educated manner in which he got his points across. Andreas kills him with kindness. Part 1/7 here: http://youtu.be/KJlxiVgiebs?t=50s (part 2/7 when Tory gets going cracks me up!)

  • sugarplumfairy

    Wow.. Lawrence Wright on Charlie Rose right now on NJTV.. Haven’t seen this before.. Amazing interview..

  • stateofcircle

    I haven’t read all of the comments, so I apologize if this is redundant. WHY IS DCF/DCS NOT AT MACE-KINGSLEY RIGHT THIS VERY SECOND? This is EVIDENCE of CHILD ABUSE AND ENDANGERMENT. What toxins are in the body of a 10 year old? High fructose corn syrup??? Seriously, if this isn’t investigated, the State of Florida, as far as I’m concerned, has blood on their hands, and the DCF/DCS should be picketed, lambasted, and bombarded until they act.

    As for today’s SMERSH, it’s a no-brainer. As a never-was scio, Xenu.net/OCMB was the first place I went when I started sci-watching years ago and completely sucked me in. I am happy to say I am a full-fledged addict of scientology watching because of all of the amazing resources and information it provides, but mostly because of all of the amazing members that have so bravely shared their thoughts, opinions, knowledge and stories. To me, OCMB, ESMB, WWP and this site has created a kick ass family of awesome people that I love coming home to every day ๐Ÿ™‚

  • Norwood Partz

    test

  • steWTF

    So, we have “dormant engrams” that we are unaware of because they have not been keyed-in? They exist in this state unless keyed-in by simply being present at an event, during which we may be unconscious, or, “unconscious”, or from being sneezed on by someone in which a given engram has been keyed-in during which they may have been unconscious, or, “unconscious” or were sneezed on by another in which a given engram….ok.

    It can be assumed we each must have ALL POSSIBLE engrams present within us, (as far as I know, offers no method of predicting which engrams will get keyed-in). This number is infinite ( no need to prove this part of my theory, as I state it’s a scientific fact
    Engrams have mass. I carry an infinite number of engrams. Therefore, I have infinite mass! (Scales and other such devices that use so-called “scientific” means and systems of measure must be the result of a conspiracy between psychos and drug companies to keep us in their clutches via their fabricated weight-control loop)

    No wonder I can’t travel through time!

    – Thanks for the win!

  • red_spherical_object

    Thanks for getting the song ‘When I Was A Sperm’ in my head ๐Ÿ˜› .