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Sunday Funnies: Get Your Infant Audited!

MKSmallOn Sundays, we love to reveal the latest Scientology mailers and fliers that have been going out to members, encouraging them to give, give, give until it hurts.

This week, we have a particularly special item to begin this week’s collection. You might remember, last summer, when Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes split, reporters were asking whether Suri was really old enough yet to get indoctrination in her father’s church. She was six years old (and now almost seven), and we all wondered if kids that young were really subject to Scientology training.

Well, wonder no more.

Get a load of this remarkable post card that was sent out by the Mace-Kingsley Family Center in Clearwater, Florida, which invites Scientology parents to bring their infants down for auditing.

And just how, we wonder, is a toddler going to come up with an “earlier similar” if they’re too young to, you know, speak?

Baby_Auditing

 
The Mace-Kingsley center is the latest incarnation of what was once a notorious school in Palmdale, California and then New Mexico, and the kids who were essentially abandoned there have horrific stories of abuse to tell. Now, it’s become an after-school place for kids to get auditing. And apparently, the drooling set is welcome too. Here’s the flipside of the card…

Mace_Kingsley

 
This next one comes to us from Orange County, where apparently church members are so tapped out from endless rounds of fundraising, the church is trying to help them turn some of their assets into ready cash. Note the emphatic disclaimer: “You do NOT spend any money at this party!” Oh, that’s a good one!

SCoastAuctionSCoastAuction2SCoastAuction3

 
The San Francisco org was obviously fully stoked that Chill E.B. was stopping by last night. And get a load of the size of the crowd expecting him!

ChillEBFlier

 
ALERT! Scientologists playing politics! Later today, there’s going to be a vetting of 13th District City Council candidates in the parking lot at Big Blue, Scientology’s Los Angeles headquarters. And the e-mail that accompanied this flier had some interesting things to say about it. But first, here’s the announcement…

political-ralley-flier

Says an e-mail that came with the flier, “There are two candidates running who are worth your consideration. Michael Schaeffer has been safe-pointed on the Church, and has already done some outreach for us. Josh Post has toured the CCHR exhibit with a Church member.”

Hmm. Well, Michael Schaeffer may have been “safe-pointed” for church support, but he’s also a nut, apparently. Josh Post looks like an attractive up-and-comer who may just be taking any support he can get.

Chimed in another Scientologist who forwarded the e-mail: “All the staff are supposed to attend also and the idea is to get a huge bunch of people there and impress them that this is a large group worth their notice etc. and safepoint the candidates further as well as hear what they have to say right before the election.”

Surely, seeing LA City Council candidates get “safe-pointed” by the Church of Scientology could make for a fun spectacle, right? Can you spare a reporter, Los Angeles Times?

 
Finally, we have some very interesting images from Australia. We’ll let our tipster tell the tale…

I live in Sydney and the city’s Church of Scientology moved into a new spot on Castlereagh St. in the heart of the city about six months ago. From the start, church members tried to lure people into doing the personality test, but it became less and less busy pretty quickly. I walk past the building several times a week for work, and I realized that it had become very quiet in there over the last couple of months. This week I found what you can see in the pictures attached. I’m not sure if they are done for good, but at least it seems that nobody cares about Scientology here in Sydney.

Sydney1

Sydney2

Gosh, it’s funny that Virginia Stewart, Scientology’s mouthpiece in Australia, had nothing to say about this the other day.

—————-

SMERSH Madness: Sowing the Seeds of World Domination!

As we announced on March 1, we’re joining bracket fever with a tournament like no other. It’s up to you to decide who should be named the new SMERSH, the traditional nemesis of Scientology. Cast your vote for who’s doing more to propel the church down its long slide into oblivion!

Continuing in the first round, we have a great battle this morning…

NancyVsPTA

Nancy Many wrote about her amazing Scientology experiences in her book, My Billion-Year Contract. But we were really blown away by the job the ID Network did turning her book into a docudrama this January. The show captured her incredible story, from spying for the church to suffering on the RPF. Nancy just cannot be stopped.

Paul Thomas Anderson deeply researched Scientology’s early history for a screenplay that repeatedly ridicules an L. Ron Hubbard lookalike in the character of “Lancaster Dodd.” The film Anderson made from that script, The Master, dialed back on some of the church content, but it still interested an entirely new audience in Scientology’s oddities.

 

Yesterday’s result: Debbie Cook handily defeated John Sweeney with about 70 percent of the vote.

 

——————-

Posted by Tony Ortega on March 3, 2013 at 07:00

 

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  • John P.

    Audit your babies: Given how well Scientology does with math, starting with Hubbard’s claim to have studied 270 people in his “research” for Dianetics, I am totally convinced that auditing infants works because the kind people at Mace-Kingsley say “we do know, based on statistics, babies do much better after getting auditing.” I wonder how you explain to a four month old that they have to hold the “cans” just so.

    Cash for Gold and Silver Party: Love the classy graphic design for this one. All black, with dark blue headline font that really stands out… Yes, the emphatic notice that “you do not spend any money at this party” is telling… but I wonder how many people will fail to figure out that the cash you receive at this party is not going to stay in your pocket for long. My first reaction to this was momentary horror, imagining for a second the Nazi practice of stripping the gold fillings from their victims’ teeth.

    Chill E.B. in San Francisco: I wonder why it was an “unexpected pleasure” that Mr. Chill E.B. is honoring San Francisco with his lyrical stylings. Perhaps because he came to them and begged for a gig? Or perhaps because the S.F. org’s stats are so low that nobody thought they would be getting a plush event like this to come to their shores. It is tons of fun to play “which of these things is not like the others” with the group photo on the bottom of the flyer — not only is Chill E.B. one of exactly two black guys (no surprise there) but there appear to be only about two people under the age of 45 — classic demographics for rap music.

    East Hollywood community forum: First off, isn’t West Hollywood where all the cool kids live? So advertising you’re in East Hollywood is about like advertising you’re in Joliet — so close but yet so far… It would be interesting to have some local ex’s (*cough* Tory *cough*) take pictures so we can see just how much of a crowd they can actually turn out, even with enforced staff presence. It ought to be easy to strip out the staff by counting vampire coats and two-tone ties, and to thus determine that only 15 “real” people turned up for the event. I also note that they’re not trying to get people inside the buildings any more, apparently. I wonder if they’ll count that as “bodies in shop” stats for the week, since people were on the property, even though they didn’t actually go into a building.

    SMERSH Madness: Nancy Many vs. Paul Thomas Anderson: I am going with Nancy. She’s got real skin in the game and authenticity in her story. PTA spent all this time trying to build buzz (cynically, I think) by playing a big shell game about whether “The Master” was or was not about Scientology.

    • hogarthian

      “the Nazi practice of stripping the gold fillings from their victims’ teeth.” I’d say you’ve nailed it front and centre with that analogy… that’s EXACTLY what it is.

      • Poison Ivy

        Terrifying.

    • scnethics

      Babies and young children don’t ‘hold the cans’. They are given ‘havingness processes’ (example: auditor says to baby/child: reach for your mom, thank you, withdraw from your mom etc), ‘locationals’ (example: look around the room and find something green, good, look around the room and find something orange, good, and so on). They are also ‘run’ on a process called ‘own time’ (where the auditor goes along with the child and does whatever they want…kind of like a nanny, but WAY more expensive. My spouse grew up in Scientology and was started on auditing at about six years old. My spouse also attended Mace Kingsley school in LA. Auditing babies and young children is common. The adult scientologists believe it will help their child, and they think it’s so cute and ‘theta’.

      • Are_sics

        And babies too young to understand “reach for your mom?” or colors? Oh never mind. I forgot. These people tell ashtrays what to do.

        • scnethics

          For a baby three days old: “Lie there in that crib.” “Good!” “Lie there in that crib.” “Excellent” Repeat to VGIs. I shit you not.

          • Are_sics

            Ohman… that’s almost what I envisioned. Ashtray treatment. I can’t make it up worse than it is.

          • nessness

            tell them a lie, there in the crib… repeat, tell them a lie, there in the crib….

            baby training

        • Trustmeonthis

          MY ashtray is smart enough to know what to do without having to be told! I guess it must be OT.

          • Are_sics

            Is it making you money? Is it making other ashtrays make you money? I bet your ashtray doesn’t know what to do at all. Has it been reporting stats?

            • Trustmeonthis

              My ashtray is AT CAUSE over keeping my table clean! Its stats are straight up and vertical, thank you very much!

            • Observer

              Maybe it should join the Sydney org! They need all the help they can get.

            • Are_sics

              Straight up and vertical? So it’s not keeping your table clean, is it?

        • Missionary Kid

          Babies understand language way before they can speak. It’s still mumbo-jumbo that preys on the insecurities of parents. It’s easy to cure a non-existent problem that’s diagnosed by a quack.

          • FistOfXenu

            Not if you’re using $cientarCONon tech it isn’t. If you’re using the tech BTs generate spontaneously and breed like rabbits and non-existent problems turn into Teh Crazy and as if that ain’t bad enough, the next thing you know you magically turn into an enemy of humanity and have to be handled.

            • Missionary Kid

              In that framework, crazy and predatory becomes the norm. That’s why I dislike Co$, it’s leader, Dinky Mindfuck, it’s pathological founder, Little Ronny Headcase, and all the “tech” that’s spewed out to the misguided faithful. Unfortunately, those close to the top are more persecutors than victims. They are similar to the Nazi collaborators and the Soviet Politburo members who enabled evil just to enrich themselves.

              Either the “Independents” are truly evil, or they’ve achieved such a state of dissociation because they are afraid to see the part they played in perpetrating evil. They are similar to the former Siberian political concentration camp commanders in Russia who rationalized what they’ve done by claiming the victims were victims because they JUST DIDN’T FOLLOW THE RIGHT DIRECTIONS from on high properly, so they were sent to the gulag.

              Don’t get me started, or I might get angry and not be so circumspect. ;-D

          • Are_sics

            Yes babies understand language before they can speak, but certainly some babies are too young to understand a command like “reach for….” (so I’m not sure if you’re trying to correct me with your first sentence). I agree with your conclusions. And of course what Elron didn’t tell anybody is that some *are* too young to understand… Elron though engrams could be created by specific linguistic formulations said when fetuses, in the womb, “heard” them, even fetuses without any differentiated ears. There’s a tangled web of pseudo science and marketing and bastardization of early Freud in all that. It should have been a tip-off to readers of Dianetics from the start that this guy was a sham.

            • Missionary Kid

              Yeah! Not really trying to correct, just add. Since I’m a wog, I forgot about the part engrams supposedly adding up from the past ad infinitum.

              I like, ” There’s a tangled web of pseudo science and marketing and bastardization of early Freud…”

            • Are_sics

              Cool… You can have it when necessary. I’ll share it. I might use it sometimes, but I’m not keeping it!

      • FistOfXenu

        Awww, you’ve spoiled a much more fun way to think of it. 1 child + 1 e-meter = 1 expensive pile of trash + a win for humanity. Your way (their way) just means they still get to fuck with the kid’s brain and he’s defenseless. That sucks.

        And now I REALLY want to break something.

        • Unex Skcus

          I have a misbehaving ashtray that you’re welcome to smash…

          • FistOfXenu

            The ashtray is pulling it in

    • Are_sics

      The assessment of baby auditing is definitely based on statistics. Of course, that’s Thursday statistics. It’s not like this has anything to do with the real world. Babies are happier because RTC postulates t hem happier after checking the statistics. Don’cha see? It’s a great bargain. It usually costs more to get an adult postulated like that.

    • Poison Ivy

      Great minds think alike John P: “Not only is Chill E.B. one of exactly two black guys (no surprise there) but there appear to be only about two people under the age of 45 — classic demographics for rap music.” I noticed the same thing…one of these things is not like the others….

      East Hollywood and West Hollywood are two different worlds. West Hollywood is upper middle class to upscale and has a significant gay population. One of the safest parts of LA, in general. East Hollywood is high crime, lower income and has a very high hispanic population. There are parts that are nicer than others – there are artsy, hipster pockets around Los Feliz and Silverlake (and there are dodgier parts of West Hollywood as well) but that’s the general lay of the land. Big Blue is not in a nice neighborhood.

      • FistOfXenu

        Won’t matter for the people on staff at Big Blue. They don’t have enough spare time to be out on those streets anyway. No wait, I meant to say “they’re so at cause they’re perfectly safe no matter where they are”.

    • sharon brown

      I too was looking at the assembled group for Chill EB and was thinking the same thing! Notice the black man in the 3rd row on the right makingvsure his face gets seen ! RI can see this group in a rap club on a Friday night getting down to the rap music dancing ! Roflmao ! Pathetic !

    • richelieu jr

      Actually, East Hollywood is Silverlake, The Celeb Centre, Los Feliz and Griffith Park, so it’s pretty chic and cool and even was before all the right people moved in when I lived there with Beck in the early 90s….
      You may be confusing it with East LA…

      West Hollywood is where all the people who are.. erm, way DOWN on the tone scale, but way up on the affluence one, live, if you get my drift… and yeah, they’re pretty cool kids…

      • Gus_Cox

        There is no “East Hollywood.” As someone who has lived in Hollywood for 30 years, allow me to get pedantic ๐Ÿ™‚

        West Hollywood is a city, formerly part of LA, with the ZIP code 90069 – OK, no jokes pleez ๐Ÿ™‚ West Hollywood is its own city, with its own City Hall, etc.

        Hollywood is a District within and still part of the City of Los Angeles, with the ZIP codes 90027, 90028, 90038, and 90068. PO Boxes at Hollywood Station are also Hollywood and are ZIP 90078.

        CC, Los Feliz, and Griffith Park are all part of Hollywood, not “East Hollywood.” You are correct that when you go east of Hollywood (and a bit south), you get into Silverlake, but that is Silverlake, not Hollywood, east or otherwise. Silver Lake is its own cool place.

        Generally, anything east of Western Ave might be described generally as the east part of Hollywood, but there is no “East Hollywood.” That would be like saying East Covina. There’s West Covina and Covina, and there is West Hollywood and Hollywood.

        Now, as to the “dodgy” bits… There aren’t any dodgy parts of West Hollywood. Maybe by the standards of Mayberry R.F.D., but the whole area is very safe and you can walk at night pretty much anywhere there.

        As for “East Hollywood” being high crime, Hollywood ranges from neighborhoods that make West Hollywood look poor (like the Oaks and the Glens areas in 90068, and Los Feliz in 90027), to places that are slightly rough. South of Franklin it varies block by block, but there are no slums here. Most of the rougher parts are in LA 90029 which is not Hollywood. Just across Fountain from big blue (George’s, etc.) is 90029, so that horror palace is right on the border.

        Oops, I ranted more than I meant to there. Sorry. I’ll stop.

        tl;dr Hollywood is Hollywood.

        • richelieu jr

          Technically, you are correct (the ‘best ind of correct?), however I lived there for 17 years and we sure called it that at times. And I lived everywhere from chic areas ‘LOs Feliz’ to dodgier, Melrose and Hoover, Echo Park…
          At any rate, I think pretty much said the same thing, if you’ll look at what I posted. East Holly wood is (subtext, REALLY) Los Feliz,etc…) Why did I use that term? IN response to someone who I felt was misusing it, natch…

    • Well thought out responses, JohnP..thanks ๐Ÿ™‚ Ok, yes, the cool kids live in West Hollywood, and yes, East Hollywood IS like living in Joliet <<< good analogy! I'll have to check if there IS still a/t in West Hollywood. I know Malibu closed last year, Santa Monica, too. I heard recently Bev Hills is shut down, too. So it's a city of 4 story HUGE EMPTY Buildings all lit up and NO ONE inside! I'll try to do some photos for you all. Is there one event you were thinking of? Is there a specific location also? Inglewood has an Ideal Org, too, now. That's where they kicked out our Gov't officials who flew down to use their "Church of $cientology Community Center". Once the Dr. Said "THIS HAS ***NOTHING*** to do with Scientology OR Dianetics" they LITERALLY (and I was there, so I speak from experience) LOCKED THE DOORS, LOCKING OUT A CROWD WHO HAD COME TO MEET THERE. Way to go, OSA!!!

  • EnthralledObserver

    Yeah, I went with Nancy on this one. PTA was able to get some talking about Scientology, but stopped short in admitting the film was taking the piss out of it, whilst highlighting the horrors. If he’d left more of the definitive LRon and COS stuff in it, and stood firm in the face of COS’s potential threat (litigation), then I might have thought a little differently. Of course, it isn’t my neck and career on the line, so even though I didn’t vote for him here I totally understand and forgive his decisions.

  • EnthralledObserver

    The poor babies… when is this madness going to get noticed by govenments? Is this e-meter thing really safe? I mean, I really balk at even holding the cans (should I ever get offered to) because there is something in the back of my mind that screams it isn’t a safe practice to have that electricity flowing through your body so frequently, so there is no way I’d risk my children holding them.
    Really, the idiots don’t see the liquidation of their precious jewels for what it is??? Gawd, its so transparent to me.
    Sydney down… how many more are teetering on the brink? ๐Ÿ˜€

    • blissfulldreams

      when is this madness going to get noticed by govenments?

      it gets noticed when people SHOUT LONG AND HARD the problem is no one is FUCKING SHOUTING about the audited babies they all have there other issues to shout about like fucking adults matter more than the inocent

  • blissfulldreams

    Those poor babies

    isn’t this child abuse and if it is not why the hell not?

    • SciWatcher

      I was thinking the same thing. Maybe forward it to child protective services.

      • blissfulldreams

        Hello calling all Anony/ Roaring mothers and screaming farthers why arn’t you all screaming over this all the fucking adults who joined scn made a fucking choice these kid’s don’t fucking have one if your going to fucking fight then fight for them

        • Unex Skcus

          Sadly, there seems little anyone can do in a legal or offical sense, which is why public activism – including writers, journos, film/video producers etc – are crucial so people consciously choose to have nothing to do with Co$ in the first instance.

          • Guest

            i’m starting to agree with them

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Yeah, good luck with that. This is all protected under the religious fraud. This is WHY so many of us are so upset that the IRS will not review the financial dealings of scientology organizations, will not revoke the statuses, and the FBI won’t investigate. There are crimes to be found, and the rule of the IRS is, if they break laws or don’t follow the rules (including giving refunds), then they forfeit the deal. Scientology gets to hide their financial records under this fake cloak. That’s why anyone who is in upper executive levels that has knowledge of finances and tries to leave will have a hard time, or RPF’d. If they Do leave, they will be watched closely, will have to sign a lot of forms.

        As to child protective services, that’s what the parents will say….it’s religious persecution.

        • blissfulldreams

          how does that work the emeter basically shoves an electric currant through a person to get a reading how is that part not child abuse!
          how can that be religious persecution if anything it shows that the children are being persecuted by their religion

          • FistOfXenu

            I’m having all kinds of trouble with today’s story. Somebody please tell me they don’t use alligator clips because I’m trying to figure out how you get a baby to hold the cans and not stick them in his mouth, either one at a time or both together, how you keep him from chewing the wires, banging the 2 cans together and on the table or chair to hear the noises, and then deciding to keep on banging them for 10 minutes nonstop at a time in between biting them, and then finishing by biting the wires while yanking the cans until everything comes apart.

            Come to think of it maybe infants are the only ones who should be allowed anywheres near an e-meter. “You must become as a little child”.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            No meters are used with babies, but with children, yes. It’s not like there’s a shock or anything, and if I recall, it’s just a 9v battery, or it used to be. The Purif is much more shocking to their system. And ethics shocking to the mind. They teach kids to write Reports on each other, and anyone. Yes, it reminds you of That. And if the kids don’t want to do scientology? yeah, they get sent to ethics.

            For the most part, the wealthy sci’s are too busy getting their own fix of scientology services. The kids get palmed off on other scientologists to babysit, often teenagers, or boarding schools (scientology of course) or scientology tutors. The parents assuage their guilt with expensive toys or Freewind trips.

            For the most part, I would call it neglected emotionally. Those (censored) parents who throw their kids to the sea org wolves are getting fewer and fewer. But those kids who do wind up in the Sea Org have an faster transition to get to that ice cold numb loveless mental state, a total breakdown of the personality. To say how much they enjoy getting even by ordering the adults around, watching them twist and turn as sleep deprived, screamed at, bullied slaves that remind them of their mother or father …. it makes Lord of the Flies look like a PG Disney film. I consider it psychological torture of children, and nothing less.

            • blissfulldreams

              but your not getting it , it does not matter what volts they are using or if it give a shock it matters that they are doing it, yes there parents are religious nuts thats a given if i as a non scn did that i would be charged with child abuse the babies/children have no say in the matter they have no voice

              i have heard that the emeter gives a mild euphoric feeling from some of the commenter’s on this blog so does cannabis i would not give that to a child either

            • I think it’s the strange conversation with the auditor that gives the euphoric feeling, not the incredibly teeny weeny amount of voltage in the tin cans. According to Wikipedia, “in the case of the E-Meter the voltage applied is between 1V and 5V, and the induced current in the order of fractions of a milliamp.” Most electric toothbrushes have more oomph: 12V or less.

              The e-meter does nothing. It’s all in the psychological manipulation.

            • EnthralledObserver

              My concern with the electric current of the e-meter flowing through a body, for sometimes hours at a time, is not that it might ‘hurt’, it is what ‘damage’ or ‘changes’ it might induce. The electric current in your toothbrush stays in your toothbrush, it does not make a trip through you while you clean your teeth. What changes or damage at a celular level is this practice/device doing? There are a lot of OT’s getting an unusual amount of cancers, my mind immediately jumps to the fact there might be a correlation… I only wish I was qualified to look into it myself.

            • John P.

              There is essentially zero chance of ill effects from the low voltage and low current passing through the body from the e-meter. Voltage is analogous to water pressure, and current is the amount of water that flows through the pipe in a given amount of time. For electricity to be dangerous to people, either deadly all at once or causing long-term damage to the cells, you need the right combination of both… Wall current is dangerous because it has much higher voltage (110 volts versus 5) but the amount of current is far higher — if you get shocked from a plug you will get 30 amps, versus a milliamp or two for the e-meter. So you’re getting at least 100,000 times the current in a shock from wall current. Lightning can of course be deadly but there are many people who survive lightning strikes, because they are ludicrously high voltage (400,000,000 volts measured sometimes) but amazingly low amounts of current (milliamps or microamps). Even the momentary shock you get from static electricity touching a doorknob in your house has many times more current than you would get from a lifetime of e-meter use.

              The other important thing to note is that radio waves and magnetic fields have different effects on the body than electric current. It’s a lot harder to predict the effects of high amounts of radio wave or magnetic exposure on people. Different types of radio waves at different frequencies can affect tissue differently, though the strength of the field is generally more important. There have been no studies that I’m aware of that have suggested that the relatively weak exposure from modern life are harmful to any significant degree, either in short term risk or long-term cancer risk.

              Naturally, we at Global Capitalism HQ got to be experts on radio wave exposures years ago when some seriously flawed studies suggested correlation between cellphone exposure and cancer, because that put the value of our investments in cell phone equipment makers at risk. We continue to believe that low-grade radiation exposure is not a significant issue in health risks; we’re far more inclined to believe that environmental carcinogens (pollution, etc) and crappy diet (fast food, high fat, etc) are to blame. Electromagnetic radiation and electricity itself is way, way down the list.

              Also, recall that the reason the FDA seized e-meters in the famous raid on the Washington DC Org was that the cult was using them to diagnose disease, not because the meters themselves were seen as dangerous.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Thank you for your reply… I am showing my ignorance on the topic of ‘electricity’ I know, my poor hubby doesn’t even bother explaining it to me because he knows I don’t even know the basics of it. The only reason I question it was because one of my daughters has a birthmark on her leg, the kind that when you get older grows hairs, and the skin specialist when she was young emphasised to me that she should always cut them (shave), and not pluck the hairs or wax, as it could trigger the cells to turn cancerous. A small risk, but enough for him to warn me of it. It just seems such a minor trigger that it always sticks with me that it might take almost nothing to trigger a wayward cell. I’ve heard this same argument for suncancer recently too – a simple change in your everyday environment from mostly indoors to outdoors, or the opposite even, might be enough to trigger a change in a cell. I will remain curious and vigilant despite your assurances – maybe i’m just paranoid, but even the paranoid are not always wrong. ๐Ÿ˜‰

            • richelieu jr

              Also wall current is AC (alternating) and the e-meter is DC (direct) so you could take hundreds of times to voltage without necessarily incurring damage…

          • Trustmeonthis

            From a legal perspective, parental rights are very strong. If the parent wants it for their child, good luck stopping it. Further complicating matters is the religious cloak. They ARE using untested medical devices, but because they managed to harass the IRS into submission, they can do whatever they want.
            I mean, you think this is bad, this country routinely practices genital mutilation on healthy infants, and hardly anyone says boo! THAT is fucking child abuse if you ask me. You want to fight for teh fucking babies? Start with circumcision. You know they don’t use anesthesia, right? Because it isn’t safe? But slicing up their dicks is apparently OK. And that is a religiously based practice, too. So good fucking luck fighting for the babies. ๐Ÿ™

            • blissfulldreams

              those same devices work on the same principals as the ones by DR ROYAL RIFE and they are banned in the usa

            • blissfulldreams

              don’t tell me what to fight for when you dont no what i fight for already

            • Trustmeonthis

              If you’re going to come out with guns blazing, don’t expect to be coddled in response. You’re doing more than your fair share of telling people what to fight for today.

            • blissfulldreams

              what i should of said was i already fight for kids rights circumcised ones included when i said dont tell me who to fight for as you don’t know just who and what i already fight for oh and guns blazing i asked why people was not doing something and i also said that if they was going to fight to fight for the innocent but that ok if you are ok with electric currants shoved through babies who am i to argue

            • Trustmeonthis

              FFS. Of course I am not ok with it. Why do you think I’m here? You need to take a deep breath and step away from the keyboard. I hate the abuses too, so lay off me.

            • sharon brown

              That is So true! As a nurse ,I have seen this too many times and got to the point where I would take care of more than my share of newborns if another would go with mine scheduled for that barbaric practice. I have a son and Did not get him circumcised as it is Not medically neccessary !

            • Good for you, Sharon! Not only is it not medically necessary, but not mutilating his genitalia will make for a happier adult and happier partners in his future.

            • sugarplumfairy

              That’s not true.. Women with uncircumcised partners are at higher risk for cervical cancer..

            • lad you did not do that . I always thought it was bizarre

            • sugarplumfairy

              I have 3 brothers who are circumcised..oddly enough, I’ve never discussed this topic with them.. So, I thought I’d bring it up tonight over Sunday dinner at my mom’s.. After a brief initial reluctance to discuss it, turns out they’re all happy my parents made the decision they did.. Their wives agree.. And two brothers-in-law said the same.. as did my sisters, their wives..

              And then, my bros being the immature Neanderthals they are, the jokes began.. Needless to say, I will never bring up that topic at dinner agin..

            • FistOfXenu

              I can think of some foods I hope weren’t on the menu at that dinner.

          • Missionary Kid

            The voltage, hence the amperage, which is what would do damage, is very small and the meter very sensitive. All an e-meter does is measure galvanic skin response, which is a measure of the resistance produced by the moisture put out by a person’s sweat glands. The more you sweat, the lower the resistance.

            I sincerely doubt that there is any damage from it, even on infants. It’s direct current, unlike the radio signal given off my your cell phone.

            You could screw up an e-meter reading by running a wire from one wrist to another under your clothes with a switch you could control somewhere in between. Since electricity takes the path of least resistance, it would go through the wire, until you shut it off. You could really fuck with the auditor on that one, or see when they’re lying to you about a reading.

        • sharon brown

          That is the part that is So disturbing to me ! Apparently in the US once you have the cloak of a religion then child abuse, neglect etc. is suddenly acceptable so as Not to infringe on anyone’s religous beliefs. I too feel that everyone has the choice to believe in whatever ie .The tooth fairy, Santa Claus etc. but the children Do Not make the choice when their parents have been indoctrnatedi into the cult ! If a parent abuse or neglects their children , isn’t that Exactly when the government Is supposed to step in ? Have they not learned anything from the many abuses done to children under the guise of religous beliefs? ie. FLDS( rape & marriage of underaged girls, abondonment of younger male competition for brides), Catholic church ( continuous charges of molestation and ” relocation ” of the perpertrators !). The government turns a blind eye towards childrens welfare because it’s Too Much work ! WTF ? Our government has continuously shown children do Not matter nor have a say. I too look forward to the Sunday funnies but too many reminders of All the helpless children destined to grow up too soon and in too much pain through No fault of their own ! (Sorry for the rant , but I don’t understand Why our government Won’t take Real action) :'(

          • Our government won’t take action because religion is sacrosanct. Why? Because it’s religion that’s why. Start asking questions and saying religious groups should not be above the law, and Scientologists aren’t the only people who’ll call you a bigot. Government officials are scared to touch anything that cloaks itself in the religion excuse, and the only way that will change is if we start demanding they stop treating *all* religious groups as if they’re above the law.

            • sharon brown

              Well I’m ready to start Demanding now ! It is such a tangled web of BS ! Co$ along with other reigions No longer provide community services like they did 50 years ago. They’re too busy having building funds, building shiny New places to worship in ,yet if a parishiner or Better yet, stranger has a need,light bill paid due to job loss, poor economy. Well, so sorry, can’t help ! Sea Org members can’t even get a decent pay check let alone health insurance ( I forgot, iif they get sick they caused it! ) so what are they doing for the outside community if they won’t even treat their own properly ? While Tiny fists ,entertains Chill EB & The Cardones with Surf & turf ! Yeah, I’m ready to Demand ! lol

            • Johan

              I think there is a strong case for arguing that its a self help for profit group and not really a religion….otherwise, can Landmark ‘register’ as a religion too? Where does it end?

        • SciWatcher

          Jeez, yeah, I’ve been reading through all your stuff–my comment was a bit naive. I still just can’t wrap my brain around the fact that this is allowed to continue; that the government won’t do anything, in spite of all the evidence. I get incredibly frustrated just reading about it, and I’m relatively new to following the scio news and was never within the organisation itself. I can’t imagine the frustration and agony you and others who have been involved for years must feel.

  • 1subgenius

    There was some incident a few years back that prompted a denial that they audit children.
    Lying liars lie.
    I’ll see if I can dig up the pic.

    • richelieu jr

      Are you kidding? Not even tomatoes can escape!

    • SP ‘Onage

      I know they denied children Suri’s age didn’t get audited/sec checked. It was during the now infamous TomKat divorce.

  • hogarthian

    “happy baby equals happy mommy”…. every parent knows that the exact opposite is true. “Ain’t mammy happy, ain’t nobody happy” was my mantra when I rewarded myself at 5pm every afternoon with an obscenely large glass of wine. ๐Ÿ˜‰

    • EnthralledObserver

      Haha… yes, well, there is that viewpoint. I have always operated that a happy Mummy (calm, self assured, confident) produces happy babies (calm, reassured, relaxed). A slight twist on your version, but without the wine. Maybe your idea was better… ??? ๐Ÿ˜‰

      • hogarthian

        You got it…. that’s what I meant!

      • Trustmeonthis

        Inherent personality counts for a lot, too. Anyone with two kids can tell you that.

        • EnthralledObserver

          I hear you, I have five kids. They are all different and needed slightly different approaches when parenting, but I stand by the ideal that if a parent acts calmly and confidently with each individual child then the child will feel it and be happier and feel more confident for it. All I have to do now is work out a way to put that IDEAL into practice… hahaha.

          • RMycroft

            So… we should act like we know what we’re doing?

            • EnthralledObserver

              I would suggest choosing a path of action that you feel happy and confident following; therefore it is actioned in a calm and relaxed manner. Feeling and acting confident about an path or action is not a foolproof way of getting it right, and in fact your choice is not always going to be ‘the right choice’ in everyone’s eyes, not even your own with hindsight sometimes, but you can only do what you can do. The key is confidence in yourself that you are doing your best for your child/ren and that they see that calm confidence and as they grow older they trust in your judgement and try to emulate good, calm decisions for themselves.
              All this is theory, and I do try to practice it, but of course it’s only a base for parenting. As is pointed out, kids come in all flavours with uniques challenges of their own to test the parents and themselves. I just think it’s a good place to start.

  • Next: Audit your Fetus!

    Then: Audit your Sperm!

    • 0tessa

      As last: audit your DNA!

      • FistOfXenu

        I’m about to announce an exciting tech breakthrough! I have a glass of water I’m about to drink, but first I’m auditing the microbes in it for BTs. You’d be amazed how full of microbes and BTs a glass of water is. This could take some time. No wonder the OTs don’t get rid of BTs, you take them in by the billions every time you drink something. Wonder what I’d find on food?

      • RMycroft

        Oh we can do that already. Maury Povich has been doing it for years. Suri Cruise? No rush. Eventually she’ll be able to walk on her own, and be ready for the news.

    • richelieu jr

      I don’t trust this sperm… There’s something shifty about him, he keeps wriggling around, won’t sit still…

      • FistOfXenu

        I bet he refuses to hold the cans too.

        • Trustmeonthis

          He is ALL UP in the cans!

          • FistOfXenu

            Straight up and vertical?

    • Ciru

      OK. I’ve got the sperm are on the cans. Now what do I do?

      • EnthralledObserver

        Getting the sperm on the cans is all well and good, but how am I meant to audit my eggs?????

        • FistOfXenu

          Frying pan and spatula

  • sketto

    Love the Hubbard quote that “children are people.” And he knew that all the way back in 1957? Boy those Indies are right – Old Ronnie WAS ahead of his time. Just brilliant.

  • CoolHand

    Re: Mace-Kingsley – they tried to convince my ex-wife that my daughter (then just 1 yr old) should get “baby auditing” to adjust to life in Clearwater better, for $1,600. It certainly would have been an adjustment of sorts. Glad I shot that part down, even when I was still a True Believer.

    • blissfulldreams

      well arn’t your kid’s lucky there give your self a pat on the back why don’t you

      • CoolHand

        I see someone’s full of piss and vinegar this morning.

        • blissfulldreams

          i was in a really good mood till i read the audited babies
          sorry i snapped at you

          • hogarthian

            What a fab little exchange! All happy now! phew ๐Ÿ˜‰

          • CoolHand

            Understandable!

    • It’s good to hear that common sense can prevail even when fully indoctrinated.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        The good news is there truly is more common sense than not.
        There are a hell of a lot more Ex-Scientologists than practicing ones.
        I think that says it all.

    • CoolHand

      That was for having them look around at different things, touch different objects, etc. They didn’t actually use the e-meter on babies. Not that it makes it any better, just for clarification…

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Oh, so they charge you $1600.00 so your baby can act like…well…a baby.
        At least it is good to hear that they didn’t try to build itty bitty cans.

        I had this horrible vision of a baby who kept pooping too much holding the can’s and the auditor saying: “I am not auditing you”.

    • “Poop.” — “Thank you. Now make a raspberry noise.” — “Thank you.”

      • richelieu jr

        The needle’s not floating.. I don’t thinl that last poop was sincere… FLUNK

  • Anyone want to go to Big Blue and ask the candidates about the unskilled, untrained, unpaid, slave labor living in the basement?

  • blissfulldreams

    sorry if i offend anyone today this has just hit all my child abuse buttons

  • RMycroft

    Mace-Kingsley, of the infamous Mace-Kingsley Ranch fame. Why aren’t these people in jail?

    • richelieu jr

      Didn’t Sam Jackson play Mace-Kinglsey in Star Wars?

      • RMycroft

        I think that was Mace-Windex.

        • richelieu jr

          Well, he did go out the window…

          • FistOfXenu

            He made the glass so clean it really did disappear.

  • Observer

    “Children are people! Don’t forget it!” And people are there to be exploited! So allow my abominable creation to exploit your child-people!

    “You do NOT have to spend any money at this party!” And there’s the Scientology exception that highlights the money-grubbing rule. How pathetic is it that they have to reassure people they won’t be regged “at the party”. I’d bet, however, that there are registrars circling just outside the exits.

    Master Psychbuster Chill E.B. in psychbusting San Francisco. There is not enough snark in the world to adequately express my feelings on this.

    Shouldn’t a blatant statement by a “church” that they have already and intend to further influence political candidates in their favor be enough for it to lose its “religious” tax exemption? If not, why not?!

    Sydney org: booming, stats are straight up and vertical if you turn the graph 180ยบ!

    Nancy Many. PTA might have been more of a contender if The Master had been released uncut.

    • sugarplumfairy

      “You do NOT have to spend any money at this party!” haha.. Yah, but just try and get your gold back, once you turn it over..

      • hogarthian

        Too late, it’s been melted down to make medals.

        • sugarplumfairy

          Lol.. Well, it would be a true honor to see my gold fillings around the neck of a magnificent thetan like Les Grosman..

          • hogarthian

            I’m British… so I have many fillings to donate, but being British also means my fillings ain’t worth diddley. What a shame.

        • BosonStark

          Yes. You’ll get some of your gold back and when you donate $2M and reach “new civilization builder” status.

    • Dean Fox

      They may not have to spend any money BUT I’m sure they’ll make something on the gold and silver they buy. And of course those who’ve just received a tidy sum on gold and silver will be noted for the registrars to call later.

      • richelieu jr

        Can you imagine going to aparty where the church knows exactly how much money you just made?

        Donate 500!
        I don’t have it!
        Yes, you do, you just made 500.01 in there just now…

        You have better chance of getting away with a Vegas Jackpot without telling the IRS…

    • Missionary Kid

      The church probably got around it by having more than one candidate there. The wise ones probably declined.

    • BosonStark

      Sea Org will be standing by to yank the gold teeth out of your head. What so-called “religion” would hold a “party” for people to trade in their gold and silver?

  • 0tessa

    Happy baby’s and happy moms, but not for Sea Org women; they are pressured to abort their baby.

  • Going on the assumption that almost all parents of infants are not wealthy, the deprivation starts early for the poor babies. They spent all their extra money on baby’s auditing, so no fun things for anyone.
    Also, the postcard only mentions mommy, which I find pretty outdated today. Where’s daddy in the picture?

    • Daddy had “CI” on spending the rent and grocery money to pay some criminal to play reach and withdraw with the baby.

    • Daddy’s in the Hole.

  • sugarplumfairy

    “Our favorite psych-buster, mr chill e.b…” what’s he gonna do? Rap ’em into oblivion? He needs to stick to bustin’ rhyme..

    • Poison Ivy

      I love all the people in the audience. Only one of color and all look to be over 40 at least.

      • sugarplumfairy

        poor Chill..

        • his next rap master piece .” I got 99 problems but an engram ain’t one “

  • Vistaril

    It doesn’t matter that babies can’t speak. According to KSW Standard L Ron Hubbard,Scientology Scripture, provided the Thetan has entered the baby’s body (and shuffled aside the genetic entity), there are already Engrams present which can be Audited. See, Engrams have been created for billions of years. Without Scientology, Engrams cannot be erased. This means the Thetan will remain locked within the idenyity-driven A=A=A thought trap, for ever, existing only as a degraded being slowly devolving down to the status of mud. For an eternity. Regardless of the fact that a baby cannot speak, the Thetan’s reactive mind comes complete with recordings which shape the nature of the way in which it interacts with its environment. Remember, Thetans are little adults. In one case researched by L Ron Hubbard, a Thetan which had recorded the Engram “You’ve got to take it” went on to become a kleptomaniac. What happened was the Thetan had entered the baby’s body prior to birth. While in situ, the Thetan was knocked unconscious and hurt when ithe father raped the mother, and, while doing so, yelled the statement at her. And there are other things to consider. Don’t, for example, name the child after one of the parents. This is because if the Thetan is knocked unconscious and receives pain (a common occurrence, according to Dr Hubbard) the reactive mind will record engrams including the name but apply literal, identity-thinking to them and assume that any statemens thus recorded refer to it personally. (Look what happened to Nibs.) It doesn’t matter that the Reactive Mind is moronic, it can understand language and parse nouns, and verbs and make decisions based on that input. Decisions which occlude the essential functioning of the Analytic Mind which must be set free if humanity has even a slim chance of escaping the spiritual prison that is this mud ball planet thanks to the predations of Xenu.

    It is because of essential spiritual truths such as these – and many, many others – that L Ron Hubbard teaches that any person who denies another Auditing is insane.Report to Ethics, Tortega.

    : )

    • blissfulldreams

      it might not Fucking matter to Scientology that the babies can not speak But it Fucking matters to me!

      • sugarplumfairy

        Ok, you need some coffee.. And throw a little Jameson’s in there..

        • blissfulldreams

          thx hun i’m just going to have the jamison’s

          • sugarplumfairy

            Lol.. Good plan..

            • hogarthian

              The last thing she needs is coffee! I’ll second the alcohol vote.

    • we only have five more years left on the planet if we don’t clear it now.
      our children will never see the age of 16 <<<some crap ron wrote in 1967

    • Observer

      Seriously, was there ANYONE more ridiculous than L. Ron Hubbard? Yes, I imagine “You’ve got to take it!” is something rapists commonly scream at their victims. And his knowledge of the female anatomy was sadly lacking; he was apparently completely unaware of the cervix and its function.

      No wonder his Admissions are full of his attempts to convince himself that he was a fantastic lover, and, failing that, that it was okay not to care if a woman got any pleasure out of the encounter. On the other hand, I have no sympathy for any woman (except Polly, who had no idea what she was getting into) who willingly submitted to the dubious charms of Mankind’s Greatest Friend.

      If you haven’t read the Admissions yet, hold onto your hat: http://www.lermanet.com/reference/Admissions.pdf

      • noseinabk

        Thanks for posting that link! I was not surprised by any of his admissions (but still reading) except this one:

        “You have no doubts about God. You never speculate about him. You are assured that whatever

        you do is right in his eyes. Your faith is so strong you could move mountains.”

        I am also surprised that this information is not referred to more frequently as it flies in the face of all the bullshit LRH fed people.

        • Poison Ivy

          “You are assured that whatever you do is right in his eyes.” This is the key. This is the sociopath assuring himself that rules for others do not apply to him.

        • richelieu jr

          The church officially says they are fake, yet claims them as intellectual property.

          • FistOfXenu

            Like OT3

        • Johan

          The affirmations are a great insight into L Ron’s issues and insecurities, and you can spot them littered all over scientology….

      • FistOfXenu

        Here’s a question: How did Ron know what rapists commonly scream at their victims?

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Vistaril…I love you.
      I would love to type out a post with content like that but all I can ever come up with is: LRH was an ASSHAT!

      • hogarthian

        I hear you there….. unfortunately, when I get fired up about an horrific issue such as this…. eloquence goes out the window and I turn into a foul mouthed irrational guttersnipe, and I see that’s not uncommon. I suspect they feed off that too. “look at these ranting lunatics, spouting profanity with impunity whilst in the grip of a delusional paranoid episode”. If only I’d been taught about the merits of a ‘tone 40’ or whatever the fuck they call it…. I may be able to get a lot more disinterested people to listen up!

        • oh honey – we are going to get along really fucking well. Welcome !

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Isn’t it amazing how fast you can bond with a kindred spirit….hehehe

            Oh sorry…thetan.

          • hogarthian

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpYeekQkAdc

            And on that note… I now need to go lie down in a darkened room.

            • wow – as a woman of Irish decent..i was raised to believe that the Brit’s were bad . I feel love for you right now LOL . I live in Colorado ..we just voted it legal here . Man..i love this country ๐Ÿ˜‰

            • richelieu jr

              Makes me wish I were back in Lakewood…

        • richelieu jr

          Well, let me interest you in the merits of Colt 40. It’s less harmful in the long term, even if it does taste like electric ass.

      • richelieu jr

        BtN2, the proper term is ASHO, I keep telling you that LRH was a total ASHO…

        • BuryTheNuts2

          I am kinda slowwwwwwwwwww…..RJ

          He was a total ASHO!

          • FistOfXenu

            That’s Commodore ASHO, if you please. The rest of them are just regular ASHO’s.

    • richelieu jr

      I mean, don’t you want your baby breaking bronco when it is 4? C’mon, people!

    • FistOfXenu

      I object to your phrase “the predations of Xenu”. The correct description of my actions is “wanton mindless vandalism and destruction by Xenu”. Thanks.

      • Vistaril

        I beg forgiveness, Master. I know nothing. I stand before you as a blade of grass beneath the summer sun of your wisdom. All hail Xenu, or die.

        • FistOfXenu

          Forgiveness. Of course. Just as soon as I give you ECT and give you a lobotomy. Don’t worry, you’ll be on so many psych drugs you won’t feel a thing.

    • Hubbard loved to write about men beating and raping women as if this was a simple everyday occurrence. And who cares what happens to the woman, right? It’s the fetus that matters.

      One sick shithead.

    • EnthralledObserver

      One problem that has bothered me for a while now, and because I can’t read the proper ‘story’ for myself maybe I am just missing that part, but why, if Xenu was overthrown by a coup of officers and imprisoned, did those officers not just fix this whole mess then? I mean, they’ve had 75 million (or was it billion) years to sort it out. You cannot tell me that they, who perpetrated this mindfuck on orders before rebelling couldn’t work it out before good old LRon finally came on the scene to rescue everyone. How would a devote Kool aid drinker answer this question?

      • Vistaril

        The loyal officers did what they could, eventually restoring justice to the gah-laxy and imprisoning Xenu in a cave protected by a forcefield driven with perpetual batteries. Alas, when it come to rescuring the immortal Thetans, they didn’t have the Auditing technology. We have Ron to thank for that.

        • EnthralledObserver

          Okay, so let me get this straight… the beings that knew what was done to all those ‘thetans’ couldn’t work out how to undo it, but a simple, also aflicted, thetan, known then as LRon, was the ONLY one that managed to stumble across a cure millions of years later? So, where are all these ‘loyal officer’ thetans now? Gave us up for a lost cause? Just quit and flew back off in their DC8s and left us to it?
          Really… I mean, really really? For fuck sake… that is even really fucking bad story telling with a massive, gaping plot hole. I can’t believe this sort of stuff never gets questioned – what, they keep everyone too busy to give such trivial matters, such as the plausibility and logical sequencing of the story, any thought? It’s all so one dimensional, any good story teller can pick it apart. I am just gobsmacked.

  • BosonStark

    What? I thought kids didn’t get auditing until they were something like 7. What are your crimes, baby? Security check that diaper. A baby’s income will triple after getting auditing. Uncover your baby’s past life experiences.

    Next up, cat and dog auditing, followed by couch auditing, to enhance its spring.

    • sugarplumfairy

      I think my goldfish needs a sec check.. He’s been acting funny lately..

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Oh no…we need to handle your goldfish. You are PTS until you do.
        No services for you!
        Unless of course you have cash and Thursday will be here before you know it.

      • Missionary Kid

        You mean, he’s floating upside down? LRH had a cure for upside-down-ness, didn’t he?

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Absolutely. He wrote orders of the day on the Apollo for it!
          Right side upedness.
          There is a special locational for that.

          Goldfish!…turn over now! Thank you.

          • Missionary Kid

            Gee, I wonder what the stats are on that. Of course, since LRH never lied, they must be right if he says so.

        • FistOfXenu

          Tom Cruise knows that the only person who can help that goldfish is a $cientologist. He knows. He just knows!

          • Missionary Kid

            I’d like to see TC and a bunch of other OTXXXVs, or whatever, standing by at emergency rooms, waiting to revive the recently declared dead. They might have one or two successes out of millions, because there are tales of people waking up in the morgue without any $camologists around.

            It won’t happen because any medical staff will chase them out as the nutters they really are.

          • sugarplumfairy

            @BTN, Missionary Kid and FistOfXenu:

            Lol.. Y’all are funny..

    • grundoon

      Can you count to 99? Have you ever done something you shouldnโ€™t when you were supposed to be in bed or asleep? When you’re big enough to hold the cans, you can do My First Little Sec Check!

      • John P.

        Does Fisher-Price make toy e-meters?

        • Poison Ivy

          I’m sure there’s a niche market, with the tens of millions of Scientologists worldwide….

          • BuryTheNuts2

            I wonder if babies need a 3 swing F/N before they give them back their binky?

            • FistOfXenu

              They’ll design an e-meter that uses the binky to replace one of the cans. The other can could be replaced by an alligator clip on the diaper. You can only audit the baby when it wets the diaper.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              That is truly ” shocking”!

            • FistOfXenu

              The really shocking part is when they try running auditing processes by telepathy between the auditor and the baby – you know, the “new born thetan”. And when the infant doesn’t get in session they’ll have to declare him.

    • FistOfXenu

      Too late, BosonStark. TC already demonstrated couch auditing, couch sec-checking and couch Comm Ev on Oprahs’ show.

    • Trustmeonthis

      I can tell you my couch’s crimes. It hides the remote!

      • Missionary Kid

        It must be reincarnated from the same family as mine!

    • Missionary Kid

      Auditing is a snake oil nostrum, but without the oil -that comes back later with the oiliness treatment. Since there is no scientific evaluation of it, Clamology can claim all sorts of miracles and communications from the beyond, like Pat Robertson and Anal Roberts.

    • Johan

      There was a Facebook snap on WWP about a scientologists that audited her cat some time ago…. Too lazy to look for it now…

  • Unex Skcus

    I’ve nearly cooled down after reading the bit about baby auditing, which left me speechless.

    In today’s vote I’ve picked Nancy, by a long way. Anderson’s “The Master” was a disappointment to me, boring in parts, pointless at times, and seemed as though bits had been chopped out and the rest stitched back together. But then, perhaps my expectations were too high.

    • SP ‘Onage

      He failed in my mind by giving crazy Tom Cruise a private viewing. The bits chopped out was probably to appease Tom.

  • mook

    LAPD cops discuss Chris Dorner case at CoS Celeb Center. hypocritical and disturbing
    https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/lapd-chief-discusses-dorner-case-at-scientology-center.109443/

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Posted this yesterday and Tony answered my question as to where: Englewood’s new sci mission, that has as community center. It’s a hookup between the NOI and Scientology (shivers) and they are working the poor neighborhods with gang and violence problems.

      Wait, you’re probably thinking there’s no money in it, right? I checked out this group that was at this Dorner briefing which lead to a long list of community groups that are funded by various government coalitions to help inner city youth. Which is strange to me. It used to be that if you were on any kind of government funding, including worker’s comp, medicare, etc. you were not eligible for services. But now, the scientology front groups are weaseling their way to hook up with community groups and getting Those groups to get funding and give to scientology, for Purif, or Narconon, for auditing and courses and of course books and meters.

      Scientololgy has to get more and more sneaky. Is this a sign that Miscavige is desperate for more cash? I would say if it is accurate that his customer base has decreased from 30,000 range to 10,000 range, then that would be quite a hit. Scientologists who do business with any non scientologists do Not list anything remotely scientological on their resumes or Facebook pages. Gee, I wonder why?

      • villagedianne

        I wonder if the elderly musician who was the subject a few posts ago, is getting Social Security? Or is that not allowed in Scientology?

        • scnethics

          Scientology will gladly take Social Security checks too. It’s all fair game.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Probably self employed, so social security will be what he paid into it, which may not be a great deal due to any writeoffs. I had asked if he was AMF (union), as the types of venues he played it would have been a requirement. If you have enough into it, there are a number of benefits plus pension. However, this guy is still working on his ot7 level. Scientologists are sucked dry for Any income source, that includes life insurance policies, 401K’s, retirement, pensions, money markets, trust funds, you name it. But there are plenty of wealthy scientologists in L.A. that could help him out if they wanted to.

          • Ze Moo

            If he had no other income, he would be eligible for SSI. Supplemental Security Income. It’s not much, but better then nothing. Given the level of interference in the guys life, I bet he has been completely tapped out by the CO$.

          • Observer

            But that would be out-exchange!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Yep, it would be more likely they would order him to end cycle.
              Sadly.

  • hogarthian

    I have a question, slightly off-topic, but bear with me, I’m new. I should say, from the outset that I’m weirded out by all of it, indie’s included. It’s all badder than a bad thing on a very bad day… here’s the question. If there are practicing indie’s.. do they still do courses and auditing? If so, who do they pay? Or have they gone down the philanthropical road and made ‘it’ free?
    I was going to add a caveat and apologise for offending anyone with that question, but I’m not, I couldn’t give a toss who I offend. I get more hysterical with everything I read. If you believe any of hubbard’s shit you need help. I’m going to get John Sweeney to come and deliver one of his fabulous talks at my uni. I’m on a mission (pardon the pun).

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Oh hell no its not free in indie land. It is cheaper, but it isn’t even close to free.
      Are you familiar yet with the term squirrels? The Co$ considers the indies to be squirreling the tech.

      Philanthropic and Scientology (in any form) = mutually exclusive. Despite the bullshit they spew.

      Sorry to be abrupt….I am still on my first cup of coffee. I chill out as I ingest caffeine.

      • hogarthian

        Thank you! Just as I suspected then (although it ain’t rocket science… is that another pun?). OF COURSE i’m familiar with ‘squirrels’…. let me tell you… I’ve known about sci’s for a long time, on the periphery of my consciousness (fuck, that sounds really pretentious, never mind) but only started really looking at it about a week ago. I KNOW LOADS NOW!, how clever am i?

        So WHO DO THE MINDIE’S PAY!?!?!

        I’m lucky with the GMT thing…. I’m way ahead of you on the beverage front… Sunday afternoon is time to drip feed myself alcohol, fabulous!

        • BuryTheNuts2

          They pay themselves.

          “Drip feed yourself alcohol”….Lulz………YOU are fabulous!

          • hogarthian

            uh oh…. I got a ‘minus 1’. Maybe it’s the wine police? Best hold back on referring to my nicotine and recreational drug habit then eh?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              If there was “wine police” around this place I would have been RPF’ed long ago.
              And you are pretty safe on the other two as well as long as you bring provisions.

            • hogarthian

              Sadly (not really), I’m in the UK, even I’m not hung-ho enough to bring provisions into the land of the free.

              Ok, seriously for a minute (but just for a minute)…. what do we (you, collectively) know about what the mindy’s (haven’t decided on correct spelling yet) charge and who gets the dosh? I’m curious. Rathburn always struck me as a little suspicious… I’m going to put myself even more on the line here… his blog always struck me as a little, well, a little ‘american’ as in, he says lots of stuff, but he doesn’t really say a lot, and what he does say is just repeats of what he said before, if you know what I mean. Apologies for the ‘american’ thing, I don’t know how else to put it, British people will know what i mean. It’s not a bad thing, it’s a descriptive, like, Oh I don’t know, most British people ‘tell it like it is’, they speak relatively clearly… we think that ‘americanese’ is kind of talking but skirting the subject.

              DISCLAIMER: I lived and attended school for a period in the States, some of my closest friends are American… I mean no bad. (Which of course, reads like… ‘i’m not a racist…. but’ oh fuck it, I’ve just dug myself a most impressive hole.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              No offense taken. Ah Marty. You might get many different answers on the Marty thing here. There are many different views on him.
              I can give you my view only. I think Marty deserves some sympathy, and I would love to send him a sympathy card to the Federal Prison I think he belongs in.
              But if you know Marty’s long and glorious history..(can’t believe I am saying this)…I can understand him and his VERY SLOW but continual decompression from the koolaid.
              At this point, I am not even sure I consider Marty an Independent Scientologist anymore.
              I am not sure what he is, but I am liking it better month by month.

              Now for fee’s. Auditing fees vary by the auditor.
              My understanding…If I make 100,000.00 per year…I can expect to pay $10,000.00 of that for my annual services/auditing. (I got this from Marty’s blog when the money thing came up one day long ago, and boy did that conversation get contencsious quickly).

              I have read a couple of different quotes on auditing blocks from Marty, but they are pretty far apart so I hesitate to repeat them as I doubt the data. Sum it up to say, Marty and Mosey won’t starve.

            • Unex Skcus

              “Marty and Mosey won’t starve”…however I note that poor Mosey has had to go out and get a real job…

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Maybe she had an ulterior motive ๐Ÿ™‚

            • FistOfXenu

              But would you let an American live next to you? Would you let your daughter marry one? Do you think we dance better and … I’ll stop before I fall in next to you.

              As for the hole, you’d better keep it quiet that you have one or the Demented Midget will
              a. sue you for stealing $cientarCONon’s “The Hole Tech (TM)” (you know, for The Hole that doesn’t exist)
              b. send a squad of heavies to threaten you until you surrender it to him so it can be HIS hole and he can imprison people in it
              c. fair game you including DA-ing you to everybody you know as an anti-religious Hole hater.

              That’s your warning.

              As for Marty, I just noticed what BTN wrote and well, yeah.

            • Hah! This is funny, because Americans, at least where I was brought up (Great Lakes region), are raised to think we’re the ones who are plain-speaking and those English types never say anything. Kinda like how the Brits used to call syphilis “the French disease”, but the French called it “the English disease”.

              Rathbun seems to be very very slowly escaping Hubbard, but where he’ll end up, who knows. Right now, he’s still a tool.

            • What you call “American” we call “Texan”.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              God I wish I said that one!

            • did you bring enough for the rest of the class ?? That is the rule ๐Ÿ˜‰

            • hogarthian

              hey…. sharing is caring! (I’m doing myself no favours here, am I? ๐Ÿ˜‰

        • Gus_Cox

          Mmmmm… I’ve always thought of it as “sip feeding” when it comes to my Martinis!

          Jolly Good Show!

      • FistOfXenu

        That’s why I have a coffee machine next to my bed with my coffee mug, BTN. The machine’s on a timer and I caffeinate before my feet touch the floor.

        Hogarthian, “free” isn’t a good thing in Hubbardlandia. He explained that you actually hurt somebody by making things free, so as long as people keep drinking the Ron Aid even after they leave the cult, they won’t want to give services for free. But it is cheaper. Unless you consider that what you’re getting for the money is still Ron’s drug-induced delusions.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          That’s why I have a coffee machine next to my bed with my coffee mug, BTN. The machine’s on a timer and I caffeinate before my feet touch the floor.

          ^^^ I like it! How come I didn’t think of that? DOH!

          • FistOfXenu

            You can’t do everything. You’re not David “nobody does shit around here except me” Miscavige.

        • Trustmeonthis

          But! But! But!
          So, according to this, the “Free ‘Personality Test'” is actually doing people a disservice!!!
          Oh, wait.

    • you better ease into it ..stay here for a bit ..if you go over to Marty’s site ~ your head will explode . If you go over to the ex scientology kids site..it will break your heart . I fell into following this freak show/train wreck about 3 or years ago …it is like a trip down the rabbit hole . This is when the booze and the weed come in handy

      • hogarthian

        oh I’ve been there already. marty’s site, mike, videos, audios, websites… I’m a researcher, I can’t help myself, I’m like a ferret up a drainpipe, dog with a bone… whatever you want to call it.

        • Trustmeonthis

          I feel you. Research is like catnip to me! Unfortunately, researching this shit can lead to a hell of a hangover.

        • nessness

          Hogarth would celebrate you. It is great to detail the whole lot of them. I await your descriptions whether in paragraph or in drawing or painting. Bring it on.

      • Anonymookme

        I used to think Marty was biding his time until DM was flushed out of CO$, but I think what he’s shooting for is to become the second coming of LRH. Because what this world needs is another Professor of Utterly Bogus & Useless Theory

      • Gus_Cox

        Sigh… Yeah, it is pretty explosive to the head. I give him credit for giving me a stepping stone out, though.

        Marty’s was a way that I could get the fuck out without “losing my eternity.”

        Once I got to decompress in the safety of still having my beloved “Tech,” I got the rest of the way out.

        Marty’s stepping stone out of the clutches of Scientology was very helpful to me, and I imagine it has been and will be for others.

        The only bitch is, now that I have grown up “knowing all the answers” as we scilons did, I find myself near the middle of my life not knowing a goddamned thing. I’m not even sure that we aren’t really just what’s inside the brains inside our skull, and that when we croak it’s all over. But whatever, at least now I’m thinking.

        -Gus

        • I love what you wrote..thank you for giving me a little bit of a different take on it. And BTW…no one has the answers …and it really is OK . ๐Ÿ™‚

    • There was an article i read where a practicing Indie was delighted he had to only pay Marty $2000 for an auditing session, where it would of cost him $12,000 at the corporate church. The indies take everything LRH said and wrote as gospel as far as I can understand them. They love DM bashing, but twist themselves into pretzels trying to explain what Hubbbard really meant when he said all that really crazy shit.

      • richelieu jr

        Yeah, it’s like a breakaway society of rapists who are great because they only force the tip in…

        Marty et al have succeeded in putting a kinder, gentler face on the same hideous, red-hared, snaggle-toothed lie-a-thon…

        Just think! You can get the same non-treatment of your cancer for less than half-price! You’d have to be a chump to pass up an offer like that!

    • grundoon

      To deliver Scientology for free would contravene the core belief taught by L. Ron Hubbard: the doctrine of exchange.

      HCOPL 4 April 1972. “… exchange is something for something. Criminal exchange is nothing from the criminal for something from another. Whether theft or threat or fraud is used, the criminal think is to get something without putting out anything. That is obvious. A staff member can be coaxed into this kind of thinking by PERMITTING HIM TO RECEIVE WITHOUT HIS CONTRIBUTING. … Reversely it should be rather plain to you that a person who doesn’t produce becomes mentally or physically ill. For his exchange factor is out. So when you reward a downstat you not only deprive upstats, you also cave the downstat in! … A lot of this exchange imbalance comes from child psychology where the child is not contributing anything and is not permitted to contribute. It is this which first overwhelms him with feelings of obligation to his parents and then bursts out as total revolt in his teens. Children who are permitted to contribute (not as a cute thing to do but actually) make noncontributing children of the same age look like raving maniacs! It is the cruel sadism of modern times to destroy the next generation this way. Don’t think it isn’t intended. I have examined the OCAs of parents who do it!”

      HCOPL 9 May 1965. “It will be found that those who will pay were the most able to begin
      with and have the greatest value to others. Their worth as persons is
      greater.”

    • EnthralledObserver

      Players like Marty Rathbun deliver auditing services, but he knows he can’t ‘charge’ for it, so tells his punters they can ‘donate’ whatever the feel their service was worth – either way, it isn’t FREE. Though, upon digging a little, you come to understand that this isn’t as self-calculating as it ought to be. The Indies have a very strong opinion that their service deliverers ought to be paid highly, not as high as the church, but high. If a service cost $12000 at the COS, then Marty is expecting $3000 – $6000. I think it is criminal, because try as I might, I can’t get the Indies to commit to stating whether they believe what they are doing is ‘self-help’ or ‘religion’. I think they need looking at by the authorities to make sure they are doing the right thing. I have no idea whether they deliver courses.

  • Dean Fox

    Regarding gold and silver for cash; here’s a break down of the worth of gold and silver based in current spot price (you will be offered less but how much less determines the profit margin for the buyer:

    Gold 24ct = $50.70 per gram
    $1,576.80 per ounce

    18ct = $38.03 per gram
    $1,182.60 per ounce

    14ct = $29.58 per gram
    $919.80 per ounce

    10ct = $21.13 per gram
    $657.00 per ounce

    Silver = $28.58 per ounce
    $0.92 per gram

    If you know people who may benefit from knowing this please pass on; correct as of Market Close 1st March.

    Wouldn’t want anyone ripped off. ๐Ÿ˜‰

    • grundoon
    • Missionary Kid

      They may well get the price. They just won’t get out the door with all of the money. That means that while the posted price of gold is a certain amount, they can pay 10% over market, but when the clams go out the door with, say 50% of that money, they’ve only been paid 55%. 45% is a hell of a profit on buying gold.

    • grundoon

      “10% Bonus Commission”

      “For hosting your gold party with Party4Gold, you will receive 10% of the total amount sold at your party. For instance, if the total payout to all of your guests totals $1,000, your Party Rep will leave you with a $100.00 check. That’s our way of saying thank you for allowing us and your friends into your home.” http://www.party4gold.com

    • Trustmeonthis

      ENTHETA!!! DON’T LOOK!!!!!

  • auditing babies …do they think that life is one of those commercials with the talking baby giving you advice on your investments ?

    • Poison Ivy

      Clearly they must think that…given the photo above.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Was all ready for hilarity with coffee this morning. It’s taken me an hour to stop bawling and retching. I know these people, or at least the ones that have been around a long time, at Mace. They’re part of the reason I fled scientology. Many of them are former Sea Org so you can bet that top level Miscavige flying monkey dept. keeps them under the squeeze. Cindy Blakeslee was former GO, Greg Smith, Jeff Avrin, Kingsley, SO, and Larry Wiley, just one of his stints, was ripping off dentists as a Sterling Management (sci business) exec. They also have “field auditors” who do tours and wealthy scientologists can get their children’s brains messed up all over the world. Carole Kingsley, Avrin, and possible a couple other regular staff are registered under several different business names (like all sci businesses), one of them being called SafePoint, LLC and other scientology auditor field groups.

    They have a new website. I noticed they removed the “success story” of one of the children who talked about her depression. This was removed when on WWP it was noted there was blatant promotion of treating a mental illness since they are not licensed to do so. This place also puts children through the Ethics ringer. This is why you see many scientology children so “well behaved, and quiet”. Three or four of the veteran staff, Greg, Jeff, Don (Hood) and a couple others are musicians to supplement their income. The Ukranian girl, she works the real estate market. It’s got to be tough finding anyone who has disposable income for the kiddies.

    Oh, and included in links below to answer most questions about this children’s hell hole, parents are given a survey before admitting their baby or child. It includes question about excessive masturbation and bedwetting and “wrong independence”. I think we all can guess what would be the “right” independence. These people are the ones who will die clutching their rusty soup cans, never bothered for a moment the trail of victims in their wake. The only good thing I can say about this sickening lot is that they’re getting old fast. I just hope I can live to see the day that this building gets torn down brick by brick, and believe me, I am holding back on this one.

    http://macekingsley.com/free-analysis/
    http://macekingsley.com/child-processing/babies/
    http://macekingsley.com/ethics/
    http://macekingsley.com/child-processing/
    http://www.corporationwiki.com/Florida/Clearwater/clearing-dynamics-corporation/99300466.aspx

    • Observer

      This is … monstrous

    • hogarthian

      “This is why you see many scientology children so “well behaved, and quiet””…. They’ll be pissed off when they realise, eventually, that you don’t have to spend $thousands to put your small child into a semi-comatose amenable state, when the rest of us realised years ago that a double dose of Calpol would do it. (Calpol = baby tylenol?).

      Forgive my flippancy. The only way I know how to deal with what I’m learning is to be horrifically un-pc.

      • FistOfXenu

        Hogarthian, I’m strangely comforted by you. I can’t think about some of this stuff without needing to either break something or apply my own J&D tech to it, and then I feel bad for being flippant. The alternative is rage and that’s probably not a good idea.

        • hogarthian

          I’m so glad to hear that Fist… I’m here to comfort, I’m the ONLY person who can comfort. If you’d like some more of that old-skool, northern English comfort just make a donation, my paypal a/c is ComfortIsUs@hotmail.com

          Sorry!. I’m hysterical.

          • FistOfXenu

            Hysteria is a good response to Teh Crazy.
            Now I just another 364 pithy sayings like that and I can sell my new Calendar Of Wisdom(TM) for a mere $25 each and bring wisdom to the world.

            I think I’ve become bipolar since I started reading this stuff regularly. I get depressed thinking how they’re still doing this shit, then I get manic when it gets too much. Never mind, it keeps me going. So you’re English? Cool.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      ((Hugs Hole))
      This is disgusting.
      Some days I just can’t wrap my head around this shit.

    • Poison Ivy

      If you are holding back, I am looking forward to the dam breaking once these child abusers are done for good.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Here’s one of scientology’s slick produced videos about children. Who knew children are just men and women in little bodies and that if little johnny accidentally spills his bottle, it wasn’t an accident. The kid was doing it for revenge.

        It’s one thing to lure adults in who have the life experience and capacity to realize their error and leave, but what scientologists are willing to do and not do when it comes to their children is why the laws need to be changed in this country. No law should protect those persons or acts that harm children. Not for any reason.

        http://youtu.be/eAwzrW-F544

        • noseinabk

          That video is so disturbing yet telling. If scibots really believe this and are that deeply indoctrinated how could they be anything but totally detached from the true role of parenting and enjoying your child?

          Gues it makes it that much easier to hand them over to the seamorg.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Those that get hooked, completely hooked, do believe it, all of it. They are having a bit of a problem though with their children who can’t resist the internet and doing such evil things like reading and interacting with wogs. Sadly, some of the kids don’t, too traumatized to do so. Very sheltered in every way.

            • Observer

              “Sheltered” implies protection, which these kids don’t have. I’d call it isolated. Smothered. Imprisoned.

        • Any group that calls itself a religion is allowed to do pretty much what it wants in this country. They can be as political as they want, and do whatever they want to children (let alone adults), and still get tax-exempt status and respect because of the dogma that the state must never ever do anything touching religion ever. It’s fucking stupid.

        • Missionary Kid

          Children were perceived as little adults from medieval times. Children didn’t have childhoods as a result. I remember reading about a study done of pioneer families that produced a lot of murders and suicides because of this concept.

          Talk about regressing the whole concept of children!

    • Yikes yikes yikes. Just the first link raised the hairs on the back of my neck. So convulsions are “hysterics.” See “Travolta, Jett” for a fine example of L.Ron Hubbard’s wisdom in action……

    • FistOfXenu

      “It includes question about excessive masturbation and bedwetting” Looking at the babies in those pictures, I can guarantee 2 things. One, those babies wet their beds, their diapers, their clothes and anything or anybody in reach, and two, if they’re masturbating, you’ll probably never know.

      Or are they asking the parents about themselves?

      • richelieu jr

        It takes real gall to ask about excessive masturbation when you’re part of Scientology, the biggest hand-job of the 20th century… Talk about a money shot!

        • Missionary Kid

          Zing.

    • Rita Robinson

      This is child abuse. What can a regular person like myself do to stop this atrocity?

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        A question so many including myself ask all the time. The laws that protect religious atrocities have to change. That will take a large number of citizens giving a damn and demanding it and it will take many years once it even starts rolling.

        What seems plausible to me is changing the laws for all 501C organizations so that at minimum change the rules to make full financial transparency a requirement. This would need to be accompanied by establishment of a group with teeth to oversee compliance and duty to report to the IRS noncompliances or suspicious discrepancies. Scientology would wither on the vine if it had to open its books. It would expose so much fraud and abuse that it would be shut down fast. It’s why so much time and money and attention is spent to hide it. The oversee group would be essential as well because the IRS continues to claim it is too understaffed to check the growing number of 501C’s, only does so if there is a credible complaint, and even then, it might be a cursory glance, not a full investigation. There Does nowexist the political will and the citizen will to end the fraud in this area.

        That’s all I know. Scientologists are not allowed to report any crime or abuse to “wog” authorities. Anyone who leaves with potential damaging evidence is watched closely and threatened if necessary for years. Management at the top knows it takes years for most to unpeel the layers and wake up. Most statutes of limitation have passed by then. This is all well known and deliberate. Anyway, you might ask others that are wiser than mwah.

        • FistOfXenu

          How about this? Write to politicians, get appointments to talk to them, make a campaign out of it with some friends. Don’t just talk about $cientarCONon talk about the abuses and crimes we know about them but use $cientarCONon for your examples. The whole point is to tell them how important it is to inforce the laws strictly even when a group claims to be a religion.

          And always make a point of telling them about how $cientarCONon likes to control politicians and the law. Expose their methods of blatant lies and false research and big lie publicity campaigns and noisy investigations and entrapment and blackmail and all the rest of their SOP against lawmakers. And remind them about $cientarCONon’s crimes against the government. Don’t go overboard (this isn’t the Apollo) but make sure they know the truth about $cientarCONon isn’t the pretty picture in their PR.

          Keep it simple. Stick to an outline of just 2 or 3 points each visit and maybe a clear example of each point. illustrate 1 point with a non-$cientarCONon example if you can so long as it’s clear. So like most people get that something like making a 12 year old girl become somebody’s 3rd wife is a bad idea, that kind of thing. Finish by telling them where they can get good followup on $cientarCONon. Like here from TonyO or like some of the great books like Atack or Jenna Miscavige. And that they need to do something practical to save more people from being abused or dying. Leave them for 2-3 months and followup with something different. More stuff, different parts of the problem.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            I think going for the broader picture might be more effective. Scientology is on its way out and it’s very small, something I have to remind myself of now and then. There are politicians who are good hearted and fair, but the problem seems to be they are outnumbered right now. But most of all, it’s just not enough votes or money or power to interest them. However, the tax exemptions for the 501C is. I look at some of the other wacky or dangerous fake religions and what little has been done. But taxes are a subject that both politicians and citizens are hot on right now. Maybe there’s another angle? But it would have to be broad enough for anyone in authority to care. I think the politicians are getting wise if not already that scientology is toxic.

            • FistOfXenu

              Sure, that fits in. Their taxes, their drug rehab fraud and the people dying in it, the misuse of public money to support NarCONon, all kinds of stuff fits. I’d even say check them out and find out which stuff they care about and major on that.

    • Ziontologist

      Does Jeff Avrin play bass?
      He makes money as a musician?
      And he’s at Mace-Kingsley? What’s his story?

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Yes bass, yes working gigs in St Pete/Clearwater/Tampa area. Doesn’t list his Scientology connections, much less Sea Org time, on his facebook page. lol. Greg Smith plays guitar and some keys I think. Hood plays drums. They are all friends, well, with most other scientologists, but also Joanie Siegal and Tom Godfrey (OSA volunteers/caberet type musicians/singers) and the other few musicians left. I think Tony Rockcliffe, Bill and Vicki Lorentzen, Glenn Zottola and a few others. I forget where the rest of them were posted, and Carole of course has a history, what with her Ranch that eventually shut down. Jeff was in PAC a long time as FSM in charge, knows just about All those still remaining, as would Carole Kingsley, Greg. Many scientologists have to work 2 or 3 jobs. Those that own companies have to own 2 or 3 companies. It’s a lot of old veterans, and then 2nd and 3rd generations left, plus the third world or foreign recruits from the last 5 years into the Sea Org. Staff spread thin everywhere. Sea Org staff are having to work at Claff 5 lower orgs to fill executive spots. Jeff has been at Mace for some years now. What’s odd is you don’t see his name on the list at their website even though he is Executive Director. It’s an “all in the family” scientology group these days. It appears that not too many new members entered in the last 10 to 15 years and those that did, got out fast. It’s one big Cannibal Potluck Party these days!

        • Ziontologist

          Thx, THD.
          I’m sorry about your experiences with these people.
          So Jeff Avrin has left the Sea Org, but is now executive director at Mace Kingsley? And you believe he’s controlled by Miscavige? Is Avrin particularly creepy? Does he audit babies?

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            I believe that because there are so many veteran sci’s, many with sea org experience, and one that was in Guardian Finance, and they have wealthy scientology members’ children as their customer base, yes, I absolutely believe that place will be watched. I’d say may RTC and they report directly to the Dave. You know how kids say the darndest things? And with staff supply dwindling, this is a wellspring of untainted, highly qualified future sea org slaves, but of possible executive qualities, which is even rarer. The kids might also spill about any income or assets that the regges missed, plus any expensive toys. I wouldn’t say creepy. It’s more like delusional. These are individuals who’ve seen so much, but still pretend they didn’t. Ever talk to one of those wacky, dedicated tea party people? It’s like that. I don’t know anything about who audits who at this place. There’s a listing of “technical team” on their website. I would be most concerned about children harmed by the mental or emotional pressure, plus not getting to see a doctor fast enough because first they are put through the scientology stuff. I hear so many young adults who are out that now talk about how much they hated it all but couldn’t say anything for fear of ethics or losing their parents’ approval. I’m glad this crazy evil is winding down.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            just realized u may have wrong idea. I was an adult when I was in. most I knew early on seemed nice. shocked at all im discovering last few years.

            • Ziontologist

              Thx, THDNE. I met Avrin and I was surprised at all the nice instruments he was buying , even in the Sea Org. I think he comes from a wealthy family … I think his father’s an MD. I was surprised to see he’s still in, after all these years, and I was just curious about him.

        • Gus_Cox

          Oy oy oy. The incestuous scientologist band thing. Gawd, I remember that from the late ’80s – various groups of clams would incarnate into various bands at various times, always with each other and never with non-clam musicians.

          Bill Lorenzen plays guitar, and Vicki (nรฉe Tan) Lorenzen sings. They were in LA in the ’80s and moved to FL after the earthquake. Tony Rockliffe was in LA too. Lorenzen is a good guitar player, but Rockliffe is a mediocre recording engineer (but he was a clam so all the other clams recorded with him). Rockliffe was known for buying equipment, using for a couple of years, and then selling it for ridiculous high prices when he was done with it… but he’d let you make payments. This was around the time that a lot of clams were lending other clams money on their credit cards and doing payment arrangements. Payment arrangements were big at the time. Leading to most of them eventually getting burned and going bankrupt of course.

          Jeezus, what a weird time that was – late ’80s into the mid ’90s. I was “still in” in my head while I was getting out b/c of all this weird shit that I just couldn’t reconcile. Ugh.

    • And when they get to be around two years old, you can start exorcising their potty thetans.

    • Bella Legosi

      Lol flying monkey department…..that truely made me visualize Little Boots screaming at winged Tom and John monkeys…i love it …thank you

  • BuryTheNuts2

    I wish I was in Cali today. I want to go see this little parking lot party (community forum).
    Is it just me? Scientology has massive amounts of empty buildings and they are holding this in a parking lot?
    Idiots.

    • FistOfXenu

      Hi BTN! No doubt $cientarCONon will announce that the buildings are so full they have to have parties outdoors, or maybe that it’s just an overflow party.

      In reality, I suspect the inside of the buildings are all being used to hide The Hole now that they can’t have it outside anymore.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        No kidding. I think most of remaining staff is in the hole.
        I wonder if Marc Yeager is still having to sign checks from the RPF like he used too.

        Oh wait…I forgot…Davey has to do everything all by himself. Good thing he can, since he is practically the only one left.

        • Missionary Kid

          One can only hope.

    • grundoon

      It would be out-security to let the wog politicians and their entourages into the Scientology facilities.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        But they just let sheriff baca into inglewood….oh wait, never mind!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      mixing religion and political elections is a big no no. They are dancing on the edge here, especially boasting about how they are manipulating a politician. It’s almost like these last remaining scientologists have lost their freakin’ minds, Bury!

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Yah, they do seem to be acting in some of the most delusional ways lately.
        Just some completely off the rails decisions. I think it is a good sign for all of us.
        But it is kind of surreal to watch.

      • It’s a big no-no that is perpetrated constantly in this country, and by much larger organizations than Scientology.

    • EnthralledObserver

      Have to be ‘visible’ to the general public, I guess…

  • BuryTheNuts2

    I think Chill EB should get him a Psych-Buster superhero costume to perform in.
    You know, something that looks good with his chin pubes.

    • FistOfXenu

      Speaking of chin pubes John T or somebody he listens to must’ve warned him how we roasted him a few weeks ago because he was shaved for the Oscars.

  • L. Wrong Hubturd

    From the Mace-Kingsley website. Ewwww, I feel dirty now.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      I just gave you another up arrow for this because whatever it was???
      I am pretty sure it deserved one!

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        You’re the best!

  • L. Wrong Hubturd

    From the Mace Kingsley website. Blood boiling, must calm down.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Oh for fucks sake!

      Yes, try to calm down.
      Frankly I can’t figure out why I am so calm about this Baby stuff.
      Maybe the absurdity refuses to compute in my brain???

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        exscientologykids.com

        • FistOfXenu

          Don’t do that THDNE. It burns the brain and mangles the intestines. And then I have to go and break more things.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            sorry. back to my ethics officer.

      • For me, it’s because no matter what that stupid, vile LRH said, babies are babies and simply can’t understand wtf these silly people are doing. I know LRH said that if a toddler spills milk, it’s intentional, but do any Scientologists actually believe that, now that LRH is dead and rotted? Miscavige doesn’t spend time with kids, does he?

        There’s a ton of horrible child abuse in Scientology, but some dumbass repeatedly telling a 3-day old to lie in a crib just doesn’t do anything but make me laugh. Unless they wake the poor kid up to do it.

  • From the Hot Off the Press! Chill EB flyer, I have one question. How can anything be “extremely unexpected?” For such skilled communicators, they sure have a funny way with adjectives.

    From the same flyer and as usual, you WILL be getting important data. Of course, they could just give the data in the mailer, but then that spoils the real point, which is the “get the data,” which is code for “fork over the cash.”

    • John P.

      Here’s the “unexpectedness scale,” which is somewhat like the Tone Scale:

      1.0 — Slightly unexpected: being able to find a parking space in downtown Bisonfart, Oklahoma without OT super powers.

      2.0 — Moderately unexpected: being able to find a parking space in “East Hollywood” with OT super powers.

      3.0 — Significantly unexpected: attending a Scientology fund-raising event and returning to your car, discovering that you still have untapped retirement funds.

      4.0 — Extremely unexpected: showing up for just another event at the San Francisco org and discovering that instead of unctuous, oily Jeff Pomerantz running the show, you will be allowed to strike another death blow against psychiatry by listening to Chill E.B.

      5.0 — Extraordinarily unexpected: catching Tom Cruise and John Travolta in the act exchanging thetan-ness with David Miscavige.

      20.0 — Rip-your-face-off-with-surprise unexpected: discovering you have given birth to a chain-smoking redhead who, at age two, refuses to brush his teeth and expresses a fondness for wearing ascots to pre-school.

      • Are_sics

        OK… coffee on the keyboard? I used to think that was a myth!

      • BuryTheNuts2

        BISONFART, OAKLAHOMA!!!

        • RMycroft

          As usual, John P. is selling upper upper New York state short.

          http://www.albertawow.com/hikes/Head_Smashed_In_Buffalo_Jump/Head%20Smashed%20In%20Buffalo%20Jump%206436.JPG

          Trying to imagine what that centre does during its hours of operation….

          • John P.

            That is what happens when “cow tipping,” the relatively benign activity practiced by drunk frat brothers at Midwestern agricultural colleges gets translated to the much harsher environment of upper New York state, where the winters are long and the students get restless.

      • richelieu jr

        Excellent, high-level research you’ve effectuated there, John P. How many years of ‘testing’ did it take you to develop?

        • FistOfXenu

          More to the point how much drugs did you have to take to get that?

          • richelieu jr

            More to the point- Where can I get some?

            • FistOfXenu

              If you could’ve been there when they cremated Ron you could’ve just inhaled deeply while he burned.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Thanks, JohnP! I needed that! I have to admit I enjoy watching the old freaks being forced to endure the torture of Chilly. That’s evil of me I know. hahahaha

        • John P.

          I think this rap number, a cover of Chamillionaire’s “Ridin Dirty,” is about as much “street cred” as the typical Scientologist will ever attain: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9qYF9DZPdw. Bonus points for identifying the “break dancer” behind the singer in the last minute or so.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            I see two: Eric Idle (of Monty Python) and Donny Osmond (of Donny Osmond).

            Just read that Tony has something tomorrow that is disturbing and might be tough to get through. Yikes. I’m going to have to watch some Monty Python before reading!

      • FistOfXenu

        Priceless ! Well, that is, no, I mean, it’s quite cheap and you shouldn’t even bother regging me for it it’s not worth your effort and I’ll just slip out this door if you don’t mind.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Sorry Sir, no egress here, this door is locked. Please see the Registrar

      • I would rate catching Tom Cruise “in the act” with anyone under any circumstances much higher. We need a new word for his sexuality, because it starts and ends with batshit.

      • Ze Moo

        I have been to Bisonfart Oklahoma to visit cousins. We had an excellent time until the Cleveland Indians and Dallas Cowboys showed up. Those helmeted Cowboys did well until the one indian with the bat went to work. I think that rates 20.0 on the Expected scale.

        Given certain political initiatives last year, I suggest mandatory Trans Vaginal Ultrasound to prevent the rebirth of Lron. I also think Trans Vaginal Ultrasound would be a great name for a rock band.

        • FistOfXenu

          Oh to be 16 again. We spent weeks trying to come up with a name for our band and all the names we could think of were so lame we didn’t bother.

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        OK, you got this lurker to finally post. Once I was able to breathe again.

  • villagedianne

    In the 1980’s I met a woman who asserted that her child had been cured of Spina Bifida, an incurable birth defect, by being audited when he was a baby. The other Scienotologists we were with expressed surprise that a baby could be audited. “I didn’t know you could audit a baby”, on of them said repeatedly. The woman whose child had been cured said she had told her story on TV a few times. This was in New York City. Anyone else heard this story or know who this woman is?

    • richelieu jr

      Ah yes, she k-is known as the Fucking Crazy Lady of NYC, circa 1980… as seen on TV.

      • i am really feeling ya today …you keep beating me to the punch and i LOVE it !

  • So that’s what happened to Freddy Kreuger (just add some stripes to the jumper to the guy in the front row and we have a ringer)….. also notice the secret grope Chill E.B.’s er, … groping. I’d love to see a video of his performance just for the lulz.

    Re the scrounging for the gold…. you could juxtapose the scene in Schindler’s List where the workers are seen having their gold fillings ripped out and with clever editing you can see the goldsmith making “something” which would then cut to a medal that zooms out to show the huge dinner plate monstrosity around Tom Cruise’s neck that tiny fists gave him.

  • SandiCorrena

    I just finished Nancy’s book last week and I watched The Master last week as well but my vote is Nancy. Her Investigation Discovey episode may not have had the national exposure The Master enjoyed on the big screen but seeing pregnant Nancy in the RPF/parking garage…earth shaking! Anyone seeing it would be compelled to talk about it. In reading her book I admired her writing so much, her genius is that she can share such horrors in such a way as you feel carried along with her as easily as if you were drinking a glass of water..

  • richelieu jr

    What was the exact name of the show on Nancy Many on ID?

  • Bob

    There is a parallel between Mace-Kingsley and Psychiatry. Psychiatry now claims to diagnose and treat baby’s who are depressed with medications and Mace-Kingley can prevent depression by auditing your baby. For me both are fairly outrageous. But commenters choose your poison. There is a third choice. Breast feed the child and give him/her lots of gentle, calm love. Parents which one makes most sense to you?

    • BuryTheNuts2

      I will pick door number three, Bob!

      • Bob

        Me too. Seems to work pretty constantly from my observation.

    • 1subgenius

      I know of no psychiatric treatment for babies.
      Dox please.
      Plus there is a big difference between treating a diagnosed illness with accepted medical care, and performing quackery on an infant to prevent something from occurring. They’re selling quackery for all babies for profit.
      Your post is, I’m afraid, a big fail.

      • Bob

        1subgenius, I Was not accurate. psychiatry is still studying the area. Medicating babies is not widespread and seems to be declining. There are numerous studies still occurring regarding baby depression and how to treat it. And instances of proscribing babies anti-depressants seems to be declining. But I did not do a thorough search on this.

        http://www.pharmalot.com/2007/09/babies-given-antidepressants-in-new-zealand/

        http://www.ehow.com/about_5453563_depression-babies.html

        Here are two links but many more if you google the subject.

        I have noticed that some people get my humor and some don’t. in your case I have failed. But thanks for the call out regarding treatment of depression in babies.

        • Missionary Kid

          Proscribing or prescribing? Sorry in advance. The word police in me kicked in. I knew what you meant. I have my own dsylexitc (spelling on purpose) keyboard at times, too. ๐Ÿ˜‰

          • Bob

            A case of apple spell check. I did not even know there was a word proscribe. You made me look it up thanks. ๐Ÿ™‚

            • Missionary Kid

              You’re welcome. English is filled with words that sound alike that have different spelling, words that are spelled alike and have different meanings, etc., etc. Spell check only makes sure that what you type fits a particular word in its dictionary. When I use a specialized word that isn’t in the dictionary, sometimes it goes bugshit.

              There’s even been security alerts called because someone had autocomplete on their text messages and didn’t double check what the computer wrote.

              To foul something up takes a human, to really foul things up takes a computer.

            • Bob

              I try to catch all my typos but that was subtle. Good words of wisdom at the end of your comment.

            • Missionary Kid

              They’re not original, believe me.

        • whingeybingey

          Of the two sources you mentioned one stated that:

          “Auckland City Hospital neonatal paediatrician Simon Rowley says he would โ€œnever dreamโ€ of prescribing antidepressants to anyone under about 10, and was sceptical of the Pharmac figures.”

          and the other source states that: “Antideprssants are not used for babies or toddlers.”

          I can’t find where anyone seriously believes there is a practice of drugging babies in either of these links.

          • Bob

            In reading the article it stated the statistics as facts. Since it is an article in news format it may not be true. It also gives statements from individual doctors. Like the one you copied. I would say that this subject bears more research, as I am sure the drug companies would be happy to sell more drugs to more potential patiences who cannot speak for themselves.

      • Chocolate Velvet

        Infant depression is a real topic of discussion. A disputed one, of course. But giving infants psych medication is a ridiculous concept — not that it can’t happen, or doesn’t. But there is no research on it, so such a thing would be unethical off-label use, and possibly illegal. Auditing babies, that’s just beyond the pale. A waste of time, at best. IMO.

        As a mother of a child with a sensory processing disorder that affected his behavior from birth, I will say it is straight up wishful thinking that love and nurturing are all it takes to have a well-balanced child. Would that it were so. As an infant, my son’s behavior was abnormal and difficult to deal with. But drugging him was never an option. No one suggested it, and if they had, I would have written them off as a fool. I faught like hell to avoid any diagnosis when he reached school-age that would lead to a ‘scrip, because schools do find such things expedient.

        My choices paid off in abundance — my kid functions quite well, and made the honor roll this year. But it took a hell of a lot more than just breast-feeding and love, and it sure didn’t involve any auditing!

        Here’s an article on Infant Depression from the Infant Mental Health Journal:

        EDIT: can’t get the link up just yet, I will keep trying…

        • Bob

          I did not say all. But in an infant choices are limited. And I am sure it will help other parents if you made you story available if you have not already done so.

          • Chocolate Velvet

            True, you did not say “all”, Bob. I appreciate that. You didn’t say “some” or “most” either. You didn’t say, “with normal children” or, “for parents of kids with no organic brain disorders”. So it came across as a blanket statement.

            It’s not just about precision in language, though that is important to me. It’s about sensitivity. My experience and that of other mothers in my situation that I speak with, is that such facile and comforting ideas can be very hurtful. So I spoke up to mitigate that.

            That is me, helping other mothers, right here and now, by sharing my story. I know I’m not the only one…

            • Bob

              I do not like generalizing either. I appreciate your posting. My intention was more to generate dialogue.

            • Ze Moo

              I am a retired mainframe programmer for a large state mental health agency that has approx 1 thousand inpatient beds for children and about 5 thousand outpatient children patients. I am not a psychologist and I just handled billing and information systems, but you do learn a lot about a business when you are there for 32 years.

              It is rare for a child patient (in or out) to be younger then 5. There is a large percentage of children who are there because of organic problems. Fetal Alcohol syndrome, crack babies and birth defects that cause mental problems. But most are there because they were sexually abused by a family member.

              Drugs have their place, but the goal of decent responsible psychiatry is a patient functioning without drugs. Training and therapy is the rule of thumb for children psych problems. Chocolate Velvets child ‘only’ needed therapy and training, that type of treatment is the standard for most types of learning problems. Learning problems are often treated in a manner similar to psychiatric problems, but they are not the same thing.

            • Gee …call me crazy – but i tend to listen to mothers when it comes to subjects like ..say ..motherhood . Or pregnancy , or raising a child . I am so glad that you listened to yourself and did the grunt work . That is what motherhood is ..grunt work . Hard work …that is what raises a child . And even then …it gets harder after that . Props to your honor roll student ..and to you too!

            • Chocolate Velvet

              Thanks Kim. Grunt work — that’s right.

    • sugarplumfairy

      I’ve heard of babies being exposed to antidepressants through breast milk, but I know of no babies who’ve been diagnosed and treated for depression.. There’s also recent studies showing that if the mom takes certain meds, it may put the infant at risk for developing depression or bipolar d/o, but nothing definitive yet..

      Careful, your ology is showing, bob..

      • Bob

        It occurs but not widespread. I posted my correction. And the issue of babies exposed to anti-depressants in their mothers milk is a real issue. Part of my post was to get a thread on Mace-Kingly going.

        • And therefore, what would you do? Pull a Tom Cruise and say the woman should get off the medication that is keeping her functioning? Or could you admit that there are circumstances under which breastfeeding is actually not the best option?

          • one more MAN talks about this and i am gonna lose it . Bob ..you do not know what you are talking about so please STFU when pontificating about breast feeding…and what happens to a woman during and after pregnancy . Just stop talking about something you will NEVER have the ability to understand

            • sugarplumfairy

              Men are dads.. They should have a say.. I’m thinking 49% to our 51%.. =)

            • when it comes to this stuff …men should just say ” how can i help you dear ?” instead of telling us that we need a boost of niacin and a walk around the block . Ugh …sorry for snapping

            • sugarplumfairy

              no prob.. I can take it..

            • that’s why i lova ya ๐Ÿ˜‰ I can take it too so no harm no worries

            • I thought men should just say “why aren’t you making me a sandwich?” *ducks*

            • EnthralledObserver

              Now that was ballzy… lol

            • EnthralledObserver

              I think that to go down that road might just endorse a Scienologist replying with: If you have never done Scientology or Auditing then your comment or opinion is not valid. It simply is NOT true. Men can understand and offer an opinion if they take the time to do their research. I will listen, and even use their solution if they should find one, despite their gender and inability to ‘experience’ childbirth or motherhood personally if it makes sense to me.

            • Men can’t understand what it is like to be pregnant , give birth ( supposed to be silent by good ole LRon ..good luck with that ) breastfeed , hormones after you give birth etc . They can love their women enough to sympathize …and that means a lot …but c’mon ….

            • EnthralledObserver

              Saying that is akin to saying that because I have never had anything to do with Scientology must mean I cannot understand what it is like to have been in, therefore I cannot comprehend fully what those who have been in are telling me, and nor can I offer advice or opinion on how a situation in COS might be fixed. I can listen to someone and comprehend their descriptions, so if a man can do so (and I’m sure they can, most men are intelligent and perceptive) and still not comprehend what pregnancy must feel like or how it can affect someone, then perhaps it is the woman’s fault for not explaining herself properly? Of course, personal experience is possibly the best educator, but we are expecting too much if we only accept personal experience as the ONLY educator.

            • NO ONE can understand scientology . Half of the world can understand childbirth .

            • EnthralledObserver

              Touche … you win ๐Ÿ˜€ lol

            • FistOfXenu

              Not quite yet plz. So Kim you mean the other half of the world can’t understand childbirth because it doesn’t happen to them?

              Should I feel the same way when women talk about circumcision? Where does it end? If personal experience is the thing that makes a valuable opinion then when we get to something like $cientarCONon only members and ex-members can talk. Even things like alcoholism and drug addiction and gambling addiction, people divide into people who do it and people who don’t and even if they suffer at the hands of the addicts in their family the only thing they can say is “don’t abuse me with your addiction”. Neither one has anything to say to the other.

              I’m not ready to go that road without more reasons.

            • i am not a drug addict so i can’t understand what it feels like to be one. I CAN understand what it is like to love one …so i can speak on that . Men do not know what it is like to be pregnant…they DO understand what it is like to love someone who is is …and speak to that . I can appreciate that . I cannot …and will not …appreciate a guy who ” mansplains” it to me

            • FistOfXenu

              Right. That’s clearer and it looks to me like I agree with you.

              BTW I’ve only just seen this comment 3 months after you made it. It wasn’t here the day we were talking about this and Disqus-ting only just told me about it. This is ridiculous!

            • EnthralledObserver

              I agree FOXenu, I could just see I was never going to get through, Kim is staunch in her opinion I’m afraid. But I do like the circumcision argument, maybe that one will get her (and others who think similarly) thinking about it differently? Cheers, buddy.

            • It is not an opinion that men to not have a vagina and can’t give birth .

      • Midwest Mom

        You’re absolutely right, spf. There aren’t any studies of infants being given anti-depressant medication for depression, because it has never been done. Bob is wrong.

        As for pregnant women, it is standard medical protocol for mothers who are taking anti-depressant medication to not breastfeed their babies and to use formula. it is far healthier for mother and baby to have a strong, loving and stress free bond when the mother is mentally healthy, than to nurse her child while mentally stressed and suffering from untreated mental illness.

        Bob was also incorrect when he said, “it occurs, but it is not widespread” and “Instances of babies being prescribed antidepressants is declining”, is also false. Again, babies have never been prescribed antidepressant medication, ever. This is Co$ propaganda.

        Bob’s comment “…I am sure the drug companies would be happy to sell more drugs to more potential patients who cannot speak for themselves” is without merit. In addition, saying that he “is sure” does not give this statement any validity whatsoever, but instead displays an attempt to convince us that he knows something which he, in truth, does not.

        Bob’s comment that he “was just trying to create dialogue about Mace-Kingsley” when he said “There’s a parallel between Mace-Kingsley and psychiatry” is hogwash. It appears to be an attempt to derail the already existing dialogue about the disturbing practice of auditing infants by the Cult of $cientology. There is no parallel between Mace-Kingsley and psychiatry. The field of psychiatry is medically and scientifically based. Mace-Kingsley and $cientology are neither medically based nor are they scientifically based. When challenged to provide evidence of his claims that babies were being prescribed antidepressants for depression, he could not do so. The two links he posted did not support his claim.

        In essence, if one is making a strong claim that they are purporting to be true, they need to be prepared to be able to back it up with solid evidence to prove it. Unfortunately, in this case, Bob was repeating propaganda created by the Co$ and the CCHR, and their goal in promoting these lies is to deceive people and to create negative feelings and opinions about the field of psychiatry and pharmaceutical companies. Hopefully Bob and anyone else who is presented with these claims will question the validity of information provided by both the Co$ and the CCHR and will research their claims more thoroughly through valid and trustworthy sources.

        • John P.

          Beautifully written debunking of a massively factually wrong argument that happens to be a subtle pro-cult message.

        • sugarplumfairy

          Bob is very good at derailing.. And your comment to howdy last week about recognizing passive aggressive propaganda was spot on, Mom..

        • DeElizabethan

          Excellent!

    • richelieu jr

      Nothing against breast feeding, but a lot of folks seem to have rode in here today on the misinformation highway, it seems to me…

      • Bob

        Part of my post was to generate response. I have already been challenged with good result in correcting me.

    • Sorry, but I don’t think breast feeding and TLC are going to prevent your baby’s, say, autism if that’s the way his or her brain is configured. Ditto clinical depression, though I’m not a big fan of over-medicating (kids or adults) either.

      • Bob

        I agree. I was not talking about serious illnesses only depression. Which is not really a proven disease.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          It may not be classified as a disease Bob….but it certainly is a very real and acknowledged disorder.

          • Bob

            I stand corrected. Depression can be and sometimes is a most serious condition. I have observed that first hand with those close to me. There are various ways of approaching it including medications. The solution depends on the person and how what and how it is applied in my experience.

            • Ze Moo

              Depression has an excellent track record for treatment. Drugs help, but the long term goal is to get the patient to change the things that depress them. Good psychiatry is based on getting the patient independent of any treatment. Given the numbers of people needing treatment for psychiatric reasons, psychiatrists and psychologists have no reason to ‘keep’ patients in forever treatment. There are always more patients. The problem is getting insurance coverage.

            • Bob

              I agree. There are many aspects that cause depression. And the goal is to find out and handle the source of the depression.

        • Bob ..here is an idea. STFU about stuff you will never know anything about …like say..what happens to you when you are pregnant and after you have have a child and breastfeeding . Seriously …just say “sorry for saying that out loud ” and move the fuck on . You have NO CLUE …accept it ..be grateful for it ..and go change a tire or something .

          • Bob

            Kim. As I said before if you disagree with me fine but if you attack the person, in this case me , no comment.
            There have been other commenters who seem to think they don’t have to use common courtesy when talking with others. But they don’t seem to stay on very long.
            I treat this forum as if I was talking to people face to face. I have found insulting people does not get me very far if I am having a conversation. The one thing I like about Tony’s blog is there is a level of respect among the regular commenters. Regardless of point of view. I have learned from many of the commenters and been corrected. I don’t mind because they do it in a way that is positive.

            • Oh please …get over yourself. No one has the right not to be offended , or insulted , or called out …myself included. Put on your big boy pants and grow a set . And news flash ..i would say the same thing to your face . I would no more listen to a man ( or any scientologist ..like say ..ever ) about depression after childbirth than i would take a geography lesson from someone in the flat earth society. And talking shit on a blog is not ” attacking you ” . Get off the cross …someone else could use the wood

            • Bob

              LOL! You do not have much of a sense of humor. Nuff said.

            • noseinabk

              I think this situation calls for some interpretation from either burythenuts2 or dbloch who has been absent today. both of them can be pretty good at diplomacy when they want to. I hate to see any regulars insulting each other as I appreciate reading different view points and the conversations that come from them.

            • Bob

              Noseinabk, I agree. I have learned a great deal from Tonys blogs and all the commenters. If I make a comment that is based on incomplete or False information or my opinion based on what I read or was told and it is off base or wrong I am willing to look at contrary research or information. The reason I got into trouble in the first place was because I took what someone said as the gospel and never questioned it.
              I guess the best way to handle a comment where it is not a disagreement with an opposing view but an attack on the person is to just ignore it. I don’t want to insult any one nor waste commenter space on that kind of inappropriate banter. There used to be a commenter who was very verbally abusive. I was happy to see him blow up and decide to have nothing to do with Tony’s site. The commenter section was much more comfortable and free flowing oncemhe was gone. I think the commenters on this site are the most astute and empathetic group I have seen on any blog. I don’t always get agreement about what I say and that comes with the territory. Some of my points of view come from a very different place than many of the regular commenters. Hopefully I occasionally have something that is relevant or give a perspective that is different an useful. That’s why I chime in. Thanks for your concern.

            • It i not a difference of opinion to say that men do not know what it is like to be pregnant and to give birth . It is a fact. I see that scientologists think they know everything …with all the knowingness and stuff …but you don’t . I just keep in mind that you were in a cult ….and do not have a vagina

            • Bob

              Kim, Yes and yes.

            • DeElizabethan

              I have never heard that one before “Get off the cross …someone else could use the wood” Now that is funny!

    • There are many women who cannot breastfeed, and for many different reasons. Breastfeeding is usually the best option, but it is far from the only good one, and acting like women who don’t breastfeed are endangering their children’s mental health is rather despicable.

      • Bob

        I don’t think I Was not saying anything about endangering a babies mental health if he was not breast fed. The problem with making a comment is it is not always clear what the intention is. I was looking at the humor of auditing your baby as approsed to diagnosing the baby and treating him/her with medication. But I was also asking for response which I have received. My thought was just using basic child rearing was an option. Certainly breast feeding is not the best option for certain mothers and their babies.

        • Chocolate Velvet

          Got it, Bob.

          I appreciate your participation, myself. Disagreement,sometimes forceful and contentious, sometimes cordial, is a powerful antidote to shared delusion. So, keep putting your POV in the mix, please. You are always respectful, and open to others, and that can’t be easy when you voice an unpopular perspective. So thanks for that.

          I don’t want any of us to be too convinced of our own opinion — that way lies stagnation and groupthink. Convictions are the enemy of understandingand change, in my opinion.

          Much better for us to maintain a vital discussion, with all the disparate views at the table. Ultimately, it makes our collective voice more credible. That’s the kind of stuff that matters to me here.

          • Bob

            CV, thanks and that matters to me too. I am in a position that is awkward and sometimes surreal. I am still finding what is actual and what was just a construct created to cause a certain effect. Plus I sometimes see abuses up close and current. Now a days I see more of those than positive wins coming out of the church. And it pains me to see well meaning people who are being exploited much as I was. I foresee a day when even the blind will see. In the meantime I have to keep it light and try to maintain an insouciant attitude. Getting too serious would put me back in the hole I was in and I won’t do that. You guys have made it safe to air my views although I am sure I come across sometimes as off the wall.

  • You do a great job of mining and sorting things Tony! There’s never been anyone so on top of ongoing Scientology history.

    Someone needs to send you Subject Vols 1 to 4, and you skim read those 4 red volumes. 1991 edition. Looking at that material on the internet isn’t the same, you can’t flop through the pages as fast.

    If you see how the services sold at the Scientology clinic/”churches” all are packaged into the rundowns, you can see how the movement has compartmented things up for consumption, and how this whole setup keeps those pulled into Scientology on the Scientology tracks.

    Society still doesn’t really get what goes on in those empty churches. And no one’s published what we who lived and worked the whole system know.

    What goes on, is the richer Scientologists get the auditing (pseudo-therapy) delivered to them in the neatly configured blocks of “rundowns” and “levels”, and those levels and rundowns, from the bottom to the Clear status, are contained in the Subject Volumes 1 to 4.

    The details have been brushed over when written about, but the details need emphasizing and simplifying and repeating.

    The Ideal Orgs are nice looking to attract in the more gotbucks Scientologists, who are filtered out and fed up the lines to the “advanced” churches and to Flag, for the larger scale fleecing to keep the whole system, to fund the whole upper ranks of the Sea Org (the clergy staff living on 45 bucks a week allowance, which is similar to what Catholic nuns and brothers make, I know, I have asked nuns and brothers here in Pittsburgh what they make as their weekly allowances, and yes, nuns and brothers are sub poverty, and thus can use public health for free also, just like Sea Org members take advantage of free health service).

    The Scientology managers for 4 decades have had the phrase ‘small and failing” orgs/churches for the feeder “small” orgs, which is basically all or them, and only a handful are “big” orgs/churches. Most are “small and failing”. NY City was even small, never big. LA was only big at certain high point periods in Scientology history.

    There’s not been any writing of the history of the smallness and largeness of all of the orgs, over the movement’s 60 years history, but there’s plenty of raw data on this on the chat sites, if someone wants to read up on the history patterns.

    What happens, generally over the movement’s history, is the orgs are feeders to the higher orgs.

    Class 5 orgs feed their more gotbucks client/parishioners to the “advanced” orgs at the continental areas (LA, Saint Hill, Copenhagen, Sydney, Joburg, etc.). “Advanced” means simply “exorcism delivery” churches. With Flag being the top, with the exception that the Freewinds does OT 8. With Flag being the “exorcism” delivery capital of the world.

    The upward filtering of client/parishioners gets the big money landing at Flag.

    Flag supports the Church of Scientology International Sea Org units, meaning Flag’s income supports the 12 story management building in LA, and supports Golden Era Productions, and supports Commodore’s Messenger Org International, and supports Executive Strata.

    It’s the “small and failing” Ideal Orgs that filter out and move the suckers who walk into those nice looking empty churches, up to the “advanced” and Flag orgs/churches.

    There are enough middle class people suckered in, that keep the orgs/churhces slithering along, and filtering out the more wealthy Scientologists who they send up to the continental “advanced” (exorcism levels) churches or to Flag (exorcism capital of the world) church.

    The “outer orgs” have always been the feeding grounds for the “advanced” and Flag sales people, and there’s still been enough of those more got-bucks client Scientologists who buy and get suckered to Flag.

    The smaller churches have always just been feeder establishments.

    The Ideal Orgs look good, so as to attract and not offend those middle class dupes.

    So, as empty as they are, realize that they might just be doing their job, by appearance alone.

    We need to see the statistics.

    Again, the bottom line, is if enough of the middle class dupes get filtered and drawn up to Clearwater’s Flag “mecca”, so as to make the Flag weekly income targets of 1-2 million bucks a week, and as far as I know, they are still in the 1 million a week range.

    When the Flag “mecca” weekly income gets knocked down, to 500 Gs to 1 million a week range, or lower, then we can say the movement’s feeder system setup is really faltering.

    Which is why, for a couple years, I’ve wished we had more of the “middle management” defectors to give us a new detailed worldwide statistics breakdown. (Back about 2006 or 2007 a former upper middle management stats branch executive gave us all a great breakdown, but we haven’t had a good defector since then.)

    The Sea Org members working in the “upper middle management” building at the corner of Hollywood and Ivar streets in LA, those who see the weekly statistics for Flag and the advanced churches and for all the small and failing orgs, would be able to say whether the movement is factually faltering or not. (Angry Gay Pope has videoed several prime candidates of in-the-know managers standing waiting for the church transport bus, we need some really long term in the know new defectors who know the stats breakdowns.)

    From the actual outward appearances, Flag’s keeping itself manned with new young people, and the small and failing Ideal Orgs are doing their jobs filtering out the gotbucks Scientologists who get suckered up to the “advanced” churches and to Flag, sufficient to keep the whole setup continuing.

    Chuck Beatty
    ex Sea Org 1975-2003
    ex OEC/FEBC course sup, Flag 1977-1983
    Routing Forms Project 1983-1987
    INCOMM 1990-1992
    ASI 1992-1995
    RPF 1996-2003
    I’ve read most of Hubbard’s church internal admin policies and writings
    chuckbeatty77@aol.com

    • richelieu jr

      I cannot speak to the specific monks you know, but Nuns and Monks are generally exempt from these social services and supposed to be paid for by their congregation and failing that their dioses… Most do other, labour (for example, in hospitals) and their salary goes to the congregation which then pays their insurance, social security, etc… Average salary for a Catholic holy person is about 48k.

      For more details see this link:

      http://www.ehow.com/info_8296468_average-salary-nuns.html

  • Chocolate Velvet

    I just love the pitchline for the baby auditing: “make yourself happy today.”. Scientology really speaks the language of the selfish here. Baby giving you trouble? Audit the little rugrat and make yourself happy! Whatever the impact on the child…

    One thing to say about the political “rally”: shades of People’s Temple here. I think the cult would do well to avoid this type of activity. I doubt all of LA has forgotten how Jim Jones went about things. He loved holding rallies, loading in cultiesfrom other towns, and grooming pet politicians. Not a good look for the COS on LA, IMO…

  • Trustmeonthis

    Great pic of PTA.
    But Tony, why you post flyers for stuff in my region the day after it happens?! CHILL EB was here, man!

  • I just thought about the Jason Beghe video. The interviewer asked him if he believed the Xenu story when he got up high enough to hear it. He paused for a sec and said that no …when he heard it , he did not believe it…but he accepted it . That pretty much sums up scientologists for me …people may not believe that their toddlers will be helped ..but they accept it . I mean seriously …if you are going to accept this shit ..what WON’T you accept ? Every single person who still believes this crap …in any way , shape, or form …your villages are looking for their idiots

  • Just when I wondered how LOW they would spiral down to, it appears there is no bottom. Babies??? Incredible! And “Just leave your unwanted, broken Gold/Silver with us – – we’ll call you with a cash offer”? ……. “NOW, do you want that unwanted $$$ donated to a New Ideal ORG, or bank it for your next Bridge piece purchase”?

  • SP ‘Onage

    Auditor: Do fish swim?

    Baby: itty-bitty coo.

    Auditor: Good, thank you.

    Auditor: Scientology works and it helps people?

    Baby: Mega toot.

    Auditor: You flunked! Time for sec check.

    Sheesh, scientology’s mocking up enemies on a daily basis with this type of nonsense.

    • RMycroft

      Do fish fly?
      Do birds swim?

      • FistOfXenu

        Do bears shit in the woods?
        I don’t think they ever used that one.

  • Artoo45

    Street cred. My vote is all about street cred, and Ms. Many has it in buckets. I’m also a huge PTA fan, and really loved The Master (and by “loved” I mean I was made uncomfortable as fuck, but hey, the acting . . .), but I feel like the film was like looking at places Hubbard lived, lovingly recreated. Reading Many’s book was like meeting Hubbard and the consequences of his mania face-to-face. Also PTA will never follow up on any of this, he has no gorilla in this amusement park. Many had so very much to lose by tangling with the cult. That’s why she has my vote in this particular match-up.

    Ooooweeee, that Schaeffer dude is perfect for the cult! That carny huckster is absolutely the candidate they deserve to promote. As for the very pretty (but can he type?) Mr. Post. Well, he seems a smart and progressive sort, so I think Angelenos who might want him to win need to let him know in the gentlest of terms that he is now becoming connected to the cult, fairly or unfairly. Just a heads-up. To quote da Hubbtoad “don’t make it sound science-fictiony.” Don’t go all “RPF!” “Chain Lockers!” “Gorilla Goals and Xenu!” on him. Just point him to this article and maybe Lawrence Wright or Jenna’s books.

    As a denizen of the Bay Area, I can’t wait for May and my first Chill E. B. sighting!

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    For any “still in scientology, under the radar” parents lurking here, I cannot urge you enough to grab your children Now and stop supporting Miscavige. Your silence is still support. Just remember, if your child is abused by another scientologist, in any way, you will Not be informed, nor the authorities and if that person is wealthy, he/she will be well protected. You all know by now that Miscavige is viciously scouring lists, hunting for your teenagers. How much money do you have left to keep his wolves away from your children? If you are stressed to the max as an adult scientologist, how do you think your children are coping? Do you think that they feel safe saying they don’t want scientology? The fanaticism you have noticed is only growing exponentially. There are Not millions of scientologists in the world. My estimates are down to under 10,000, some say 25,000. Your children are at High Risk, more so than ever. Now the only choice is speak up and leave or stay silent and watch your children being harmed. if every parent left (and took their wallets with them), your children will be freed that much sooner.

    If you are silent because you think you will lose your children, you have already lost them! Leave loudly to get them back.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Thank you, Thank you, Thank you.
      Now if only they listen!

    • SP ‘Onage

      Check this out. Not sure if it’s a scientology site or a company doing a survey for them? Either way, you can tell them how you feel. Might want to proxy up.

      It’s a Mace- Kingsley logo survey.

      It asks:

      What does the logo communicate to you?

      Once you have viewed both logos, we’ll have a couple of additional questions for you. Please be as specific as possible in answering.

      http://www.averityco.com/mk/survey.php

      .

      • AnonPTS

        The site is registered to Kim Furlin, CPA PLC of Jacksonville, FL. There is a Kim Furlin listed in The Truth About Scientology’s completion lists as having completed the Student Hat Course, New Era Dynamics Case Completion, and Grade VA Power Plus Processing.

        • SP ‘Onage

          Nice!

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Yes, also doing business as “Averity”. She and Kevin Furlin were in Miami. Not sure if they are still there or at Flag. Here’s a picture of them after dumping a bunch of cash to IAS pirates.

          Also another business link to her biz.

          https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/emails-from-miami-org.26814/#post-582
          https://www.myfloridalicense.com/LicenseDetail.asp?SID=&id=C03CB336D63E59AA15F0C8E541A4D346

          • Observer

            I wonder why LRH didn’t accept communication, sensation, ARC, understanding, cooperative endeavor, enthusiasm over goals and activity as payment for his snake oil, seeing as how, as he states here, it’s soooooo much more valuable than money.

            • Bob

              LOL! Good point.

          • SP ‘Onage

            Man! I like the way you guys dig!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Me, plenty hole digger.

            • SP ‘Onage

              Hahaha! ๐Ÿ˜€

            • BuryTheNuts2

              But the Hole does not exist!
              ๐Ÿ™‚

            • FistOfXenu

              That’s why THDNE has to dig it. ๐Ÿ˜€

      • Artoo45

        Well that was fun. I chose logo 1 because “at least they look like they’re trying to escape . . .”

        • noseinabk

          Ditto!
          I said the same but on the other logo I said it depicted the family before the audits and sec checking forced the kids to report any out ethics on the parents
          BTw you can enter a fake email and it will go through.

        • SP ‘Onage

          Me too, lol! You’d think they could afford better graphics, tho.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        They should use This as their logo. Taken from the Clear Ghana Facebook page. And yes, that’s a Sea Org Bbbbbbbillion year contract in the photo. There has to be a better word that desperate. Writers?

        https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=108878722548692&set=a.108878719215359.9846.100002796948191&type=3&theater

        • SP ‘Onage

          Perfect logo for them.

      • Gus_Cox

        Bam. Site’s down. 404. I guess too many of us voted ๐Ÿ™‚

        • SP ‘Onage

          Heh! They couldn’t handle it. Too much entheta. ๐Ÿ˜€

  • MissCabbage

    I can just see dressed-up Scientologist waving a “Cash for GOLD and SILVER” sign outside the Celebrity Centre. What a laugh!

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Davey seems desperate…I wouldn’t rule it out.

    • SandiCorrena

      and since COB has to do eveything himself for it to be done correctly then……oh that’s a picture!

  • Weirdos UFO lobotomized touching / healing babies should be arrested immediatly. Another proof these sickos are paedocriminals !

  • Ze Moo

    One of the posters here stated that Mace-Kingsley Baby ‘auditing’ costs $1600.00. That much money to essentially play with the baby and show it colored objects? What happened to alphabet blocks and a play pen? How clueless are their ‘customers’? I forgot that their ‘customers’ were loyal clams who no longer had HE and R (human emotions and response). How can anyone forget that you have to play with the baby???

    South Park did the ‘cash 4 gold’ thing quite nicely.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3OyF_UxJIk

    Nancy Many is one of my heroes.
    Chill EB is why I keep still keep my record collection. Psych busters my ass…….

    • sugarplumfairy

      Paulette Cooper is one of my heroes.. nancy many doesn’t even make the top 10,000..

  • In St Louis we have a Kars for Kids which constantly advertises. Perhaps COS could advertise Kars for Kash and could convince people to sell their German cars which COB hates anyway. As for the babies, as they believe that babies are still just thetans we can see where this craziness comes from. Someone should call child protective and have this checked out though just to make sure the babes aren’t being given special baby or toddler size work assignments!

  • Robaato

    Why did it take until now for me to notice the VS. fist has an extra finger?

    • FistOfXenu

      Ha! That’s my fist! My species all have 6 fingers. Don’t ask.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Um wow…there are so many ways to go with this…
        I will just STFU!!!

        • FistOfXenu

          I hate when that happens – somebody just lays out a set up line and I just can’t decide which way to pick it up.

      • SP ‘Onage

        Yea! Marcabian fist pump! More balanced for flipping the bird at David Miscavige.

  • Section 501(c)(3) of the US Internal Revenue Code under which organized scientology enjoys tax exempt status:

    “(3) Corporations, and any community chest, fund, or foundation, organized and operated exclusively for religious, charitable, scientific, testing for public safety, literary, or educational purposes, or to foster national or international amateur sports competition (but only if no part of its activities involve the provision of athletic facilities or equipment), or for the prevention of cruelty to children or animals, no part of the net earnings of which inures to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual, no substantial part of the activities of which is carrying on propaganda, or otherwise attempting, to influence legislation (except as otherwise provided in subsection (h)), and which does not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distributing of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office”.

    I particularly like this part at the end: “…..and which does not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distributing of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office”

    And of that little part at the end I particularly like this word both times it is used: “any”.

    Now look at what is mentioned in that flier and the email about the political matter on scientology’s property.

    Depending on who sent the email and made the flier this could get interesting. At the very least they are living on the edge

    • EnthralledObserver

      I don’t live in the U.S… is anyone going to DO anything specific about this particular event? Report it to the IRS, Councillers, Members of Parliament, Congressman, Media expose??? Do it people, email someone today!

  • SS

    Baby my a$$, that’s nothing more than a quadrillion year-old thetan in a fat new miniature meat-body. That little out-exchange turd in the picture needs to get off his rear-end and get on post….. we’ve got a planet to clear!

    Seriously though, looking at that flier makes me want to throw-up. You just want to grab that mom and shake some sense into her.

    Of all the victims of Scientology, I’ve always felt the most sympathy for the children actually born into it. It’s obviously hard enough for those who joined at a later age and of their own volition to break the mental shackles. It has to be exceedingly difficult for a person who has never known any other reality than Hubbard’s bizzaro world of touch assists and tone scales. That’s why you’ve got to have the utmost respect for the Astra Woodcraft’s and Jenna Miscavige’s of this conflict. Despite being wholly entrenched from birth, their innate sense of right and wrong eventually overcame the lifelong indoctrination.

    • montananut

      What’s even more amazing is that they developed that innate sense of right and wrong in the first place, being brainwashed from birth. More for Jenna, since her family is the royalty of this particular “Camelot”, I’m sure her indoctrination was much more strict, and therefore evil.

      • EnthralledObserver

        From my outsider point of view I think that’s because Scientology has such a paradoxial doctrine. The ‘say’ do/think/be one way, when they actually ‘mean’ almost the complete opposite. It takes a personality that is curious and strong in a way to acknowledge to themselves that they see the paradox and discrepencies for what they are – a brainwashing scam.

  • mook
  • whingeybingey

    P.T. Anderson sold out.

    • sugarplumfairy

      PTA is a smart, talented guy who made a great film.. Did you expect him to storm big blue and make a citizen’s arrest of COB?

      • EnthralledObserver

        Well… that would have been nice… :p

      • whingeybingey

        Did you think I expected him to do that? No, I just expected a movie of the same calibre as his others. If he’d stuck to the original script it might not have sucked so much. But he cut all the most damaging bits to Hubbard, so yeah, he sold out. How am I wrong about that?

        • sugarplumfairy

          Dammm, girl.. You’re even more judgmental than I am.. That’s saying something, cause I’m pretty damn judgmental..

          Youre not wrong.. I just disagree.. I think he did great.. I don’t think it sucked and I certainly don’t think he sold out.. I think he walked a fine line.. He made a film that was not so blatantly anti-co$ that scientologists themselves might actually have gone to see it.. And maybe if they saw it, they might recognize how they got sucked in.. I think he had a plan and I think he’s a frking genius..

          But you’re not wrong..

          • whingeybingey

            I just didn’t think the Scientology setting related to the plot in any way, shape or form. I think, in the end, with it so watered down, he would have been better off removing the Scientology stuff altogether. It was an unnecessary distraction from any elements of the film that could have been powerful. Did it have even a similar effect on me as “There Will Be Blood”? Nope. Not even close. Not even up to its knees. What about “Boogie Nights”? Are you kidding? No friggin’ way! “Magnolia”…? He might have been talented, but he sure didn’t show it in this one. I was not moved or changed or challenged one iota. By what?? And it had all the potential to be the MOST mind blowing thing he’s ever done. He made his own choices, but it left me cold and completely devastated. I wanted to love it. I truly did. Nobody wanted to love it more than me, for so many reasons. I hope one day he has the guts to restore it to his original vision. I would love to see the “masterpiece” that he truly intended. Hoffman, for instance, had all the cult leader persona of a limp fish – and I’ve been in two cults. These people are charismatic. They have an incredible x-factor – almost enhanced by their amorality. None of that came across to me. It was a little boy playing at cults like he would play with a train set.

            • whingeybingey

              And rather than drawing people into the cult world, like he did with the mining world or the porn industry world, it was this thing on the periphery that you are thinking “what the fuck is all that about?” It’s always on the outside – around the edges. He never takes you there – never draws you in.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Well, Whingey, it’s pretty obvious we’re never going to agree on this issue, so how about we stop beating it? Besides, IKEA is here to pick up the carcass..

            • whingeybingey

              It’s ok. I understand that some people loved the movie and thought it was brilliant. I am actually very happy for you that you enjoyed it so much – jealous really. I so wish I had. And any negative effect it may have for the cult is, of course, a bonus as well. : )

          • whingeybingey

            He did a better job with the cult thing with Cruise and Magnolia than with The Master.

    • No, it’s just that his main purpose was to make a movie. His main purpose was not to do damage to the CoS.
      Nancy certainly has my vote today.

      • Snippy_X

        Probably Nancy’s main purpose was to prevent further damage *by* CoS.

      • DeElizabethan

        I agree! The movie could’ve showed more of the cult side. Wonder if or how much Tom encouraged (?) him to change (omit) things. I will admit, heh, that one scene sticks in my mind mainly and that’s the bathroom one with his wife over the sink. I can see it in a bed but over a sink? Oh well, It’s just something I’d never imagined and shows you where my mind is I guess.
        Nancy’s book is one of my favorites.

        • whingeybingey

          I haven’t read the book, but I loved the docudrama! I think it’s one of the most powerful things I’ve seen.

      • whingeybingey

        I did not expect him to do damage to the CoS. I was actually watching it expecting it to be mostly about the characters. I just found it a really bad movie that disappointed me beyond belief after I so much loved his others. It might have had potential to be a good movie with the original script, but he totally lost the plot. It was awful. Even my beloved Philip Seymour Hoffman. I was devastated. Anyone could have played that role as blandly. Phoenix was the only decent actor but even he couldn’t carry that boring, purposeless white elephant.

  • Snippy_X

    1 vote for Nancy Many.

    Just streamed “The Master” … While both portray the distortion of reality equally well, e.g. the mind-f*ck, Nancy Many’s docudrama was directly about Scientology’s harm and it evoked anger.

    “The Master” would not openly admit it was describing Scientology even though clearly it was. Yes, it was brilliantly executed and layered, but Freddy’s before and after pictures really aren’t that different, so it does not evoke outrage. Not saying it’s not art, it just isn’t as big a threat to Scientology, at least in the short run, imo. I had hoped it would be.

  • DeElizabethan

    “Gosh, itโ€™s funny that Virginia Stewart, Scientologyโ€™s mouthpiece in Australia, had nothing to say about this the other day.”
    I really got the Gosh at the link in that line.
    John P. and Whingey Bingey practically writing an article in the comments, was so great, Wow.

    All staff have to appear for the Hollywood political for a good showing. Well, who else would come?

    • SP ‘Onage

      Thanks! Just read it. John P. and Whingey doing a fine job inoculating the masses. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • whingeybingey

      The hilarious thing about that was that some of those comments took ages to be moderated. They had to have been getting legal advice. At one point I was hoping they wouldn’t publish one of them, because I thought better of the amount of personal information it contained. But huge kudos to Crikey for having the balls to publish them when they were no doubt under a great deal of pressure to cave and delete them. Of course, I would expect no less of Crikey despite the Scientology bleats of, “Oh, Crikey, I wish we could have expected more of you, but we were still disappointed….” Well, that’s exactly what I expect from any publication that values free speech. Onya, Crikey!!

  • Johan

    It seems hardly anyone saw The Master – no one commented on it around Oscar time it didn’t make back its production budget, only critics and movie buffs seem to know about it. Very disappointing as it was actually a great movie I found it mesmerizing and wasn’t bored once…I hope that it builds a bit of a following on the DVD release. Nancy wins for the punchy docudrama.

    • Snippy_X

      It blew through my city so fast I’m not sure it even was really here, never mind in 70mm.

  • Trustmeonthis

    This one is (sadly) a no-brainer. PTA ended up pulling his punches. Nancy is still down in the trenches.
    Nancy Many all the way!

  • TendonProblem

    Tony, after you finish dianetics will you dissect TRs Ojectives and OT? this will be awesome! interesting discussion on esmb about TRs. during Bullbaiting a man insults woman’s breasts, is it not abuse, it is fun. Thread: good things in Scientology, p14-24. Sorry for derail.

    • … bad boobies, bad bad boobies!

      I emailed Vivid Entertainment a long time ago that Scientology was ripe for a porn parody…. I might email them again, lulz

      • FistOfXenu

        Booby auditing? Isolating somebody with “booby watch”?
        Just so long as they don’t try touch assists …

  • blissfulldreams

    i have came to realise that this is not the place for me so good luck with your fight guys take care
    regards
    bliss

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Godspeed Bliss….we do understand.

    • FistOfXenu

      Sorry to see you go blissfulldreams. But you have to do what feels right and you can live with. This time Tony’s post was a hard one to think about for a lot of us and I saw how you said it pushed buttons. I think it did that for some of us. Speaking just for me, if I saw one of Ron’s vampires screwing with one of my kids I’d end up as a fugitive. But that kind of emotion is more useful to keep me doing legal things to bring them down.

      Being here is a different thing and mostly helps me but sometimes some of have to step back from it. I stayed way a few times now just to dial back the rage. I come back because the people here combine good data on $cientarCONon with friendliness and understanding and sharp dark humor that somehow combine and help me keep going. It’s a place where I know they know.

  • DodoTheLaser

    Tony, any updates on Damian Kevitt? I can almost feel his pain.
    I hope he will make it.

  • …jetzt sogar Kleinkinder bei Scientology? Ich sage es immer wieder…Herr OBAMA Sie, ja Sie kรถnnten das Elend mit Scientology beenden, machen Sie doch endlich Schluss mit Scientology…in der Politik kommen Sie sowieso nicht weiter…geben Sie Ihrem Leben doch endlich einen Sinn…ach…kรถnnen Sie รผberhaupt lesen?

    • That’s easy for you to say!

      (Sorry, couldn’t resist)

  • Tilman

    Chapter 10 of the book Blackbird by Jennifer Lauck mentions a “ranch” where she is also sexually molested. (Scientology isn’t mentioned by name but its obvious)

  • Bella Legosi

    So what if you find out your infant is actually a homosexual reincarnation of Xenus psych? God damn some people should not have kids, especially Scilons who waste money on baby auditing…..hell even Catholics wait til kids are 7 (make whatever pedo joke if you must) to indoctrinate them into their sillyness.