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Document Leak: Scientology Sexual Histories

SeaOrgAppThe Underground Bunker has obtained thousands of new internal Scientology documents which detail, among many other things, how the Sea Organization interrogates its workers about their sexual histories.

In October, we published a current version of the lengthy application that Sea Org hopefuls fill out as they sign their billion-year contracts to join the most fanatical of the church’s employees. But even after being accepted, workers are required to produce even more detailed dossiers about themselves called “life histories.”

We now have actual examples of those histories which are only a couple of years old.

They demonstrate in disturbing detail the invasive interest Scientology has in the sex lives of its workers. (And we mean that. Please be forewarned that there is extremely distasteful material ahead.)

If you’re unfamiliar with the “Sea Org,” it’s a remarkable institution that has its beginnings among the dedicated young people who sailed with church founder L. Ron Hubbard while he ran Scientology from a small armada of ships between 1967 and 1975. Hubbard then came back to land, but to this day the Sea Org continues to use naval ranks and nautical uniforms.

But more than the quasi-naval flair, the Sea Org means one thing more than any other: total commitment. New members tend to be recruited among the children of Scientologists, who have been raised to hold Sea Org officers in awe. They are typically signed up between the ages of 15 and 18, but children as young as six years old have been known to sign billion-year contracts. Life in the Sea Org means 100-hour work weeks at about 40 to 50 cents an hour, dormitory living, substandard food, and almost no privacy.

Employees at large corporations are accustomed to filling out lengthy application forms for their jobs, but Scientology takes things to extremes. The scores of questions in the Sea Org application are intended to pry from an applicant whether he or anyone in his family has any of the associations that Scientology loathes: to psychiatry, or to the media, for example. Detailed drug histories are also required, but the thing that every Scientologist knows that he or she will be endlessly interrogated about are details about “2D,” Scientology jargon for sex. Even after they’ve been in the Sea Org for several years and have proved their mettle, members are asked to submit these life histories to make sure they haven’t left any secrets unspilled.

Recruits know that if they aren’t completely truthful, even about things they may be ashamed of, it will only mean trouble. Because after turning in these written life histories, they are then interrogated with the use of the e-meter, a device which Scientologists are convinced can reveal if they are holding back information (“withholds”) about nefarious behavior (“overts”). In those interrogations, a subject will often give up even more sexual detail that he had held back from his application, details that are recorded by his interrogator.

We have those reports, too.

Because of the intensely private nature of these documents, we are redacting any information which might identify the people in them. We’re also going to pull short excerpts out of reports so that they lack context, again in an attempt to prevent any possibility of identification.

We want to be very clear why we’re being so careful about this: We feel that these (mostly very young) men and women have been taken advantage of in the extreme. They have been manipulated to feel that they have no choice but to divulge deeply private information about their lives that an employer really has no right to know. By publishing these excerpts, however, we are in no way intending to punish them for giving up their secrets.

After our excerpting and redaction, enough information is left that should give a good sense of what Scientologists put themselves through in order to join “the most ethical people on the planet.”

Before we get to the sexual disclosures, we want to begin with portions of a very typical life history that describes the optimism and drive of a young man who has decided to dedicated his life to the Sea Org. This young man joined the Sea Org at 15, and five years later, he’s asked to give a life history. (Again, for a more complete list of questions please refer to the blank application that we posted in October.)

 

How did you come into Scientology?

I was born into it.

What were your reasons for becoming a Scientologist?

It works.

Why did you join the Sea Org?

Because I wanted to help the planet and do my part to help Ron.

What benefit will you be to the Sea Org?

I am very competent and can get a job done when it needs to be. I am smart and I can execute orders when needed.

What benefits will you gain from the Sea Org?

I will become even more competent. I will become more tiger. My IQ will go up and my responsibility level will raise greatly.

Education level

[High school. Had joined the Sea Org coming out of junior high school, at 15 years old.]

List your interests and hobbies

I love to read and go on course. But I also just love hanging with my friends and having a good time. Working as hard as I can to get a product and get a job done. My favorite thing to do is just work.

Have you ever had doubts about being in Scientology and/or the Sea Org?

Yes.

When Was this?

[Age 15 to 16.]

Give specifics of what occurred.

I just felt that I didn’t want to be in the Sea Org anymore.

Any handlings done on this

I did my Doubt Condition and found out it was for the best to be in the Sea Org. I am now back and have completed the EPF [the Sea Org’s boot camp], done my Purif [the Purification Rundown, a sauna-and-vitamins regimen] since then, four Basics courses and completed the EPF. About two years ago four months after I finished my EPF I did want to leave the Sea Org. I did lower conditions and handled it. I had some doubts off and on after that but nothing major. I got hatted and finished my ESTO steps and read some of the Basics to handle this. Also about a year ago I was not doing so well and was wavering in my decision to stay. I got with [officer] and we fully handled it. I did Conditions and got my own necessity level up on it. I’m here to stay and that is what I want to do.

Are you, or have you ever been a newspaper reporter or journalist of any kind?

No.

Have you ever engaged in homosexual activity?

Yes.

What occurred and how often?

 

————————–

The young man then describes incidents that happened as a child, and he assures his Sea Org superiors that as an adult he has no homosexual thoughts, and that he has “handled” the problem.

We’re now going to show you various responses in a number of different life histories, and how these other employees responded to questions about homosexual behavior, masturbation, and the history of their sexual partners.

 

LH1

 

LH9

 

LH4

 
LH3

 

LH2

 

LH10

 

LH8

 

LH11

 

————————–

 
It’s not only Sea Org members who are questioned about sex. “Publics” — the name for non-staff church members — also have to submit to questioning if they are suspected of transgressions. We have heard lately from non-Sea Org church members that interrogators today are more interested than ever in masturbation, and intensely question them about it. (These interrogation sessions, by the way, cost the subject about $3,000. Sea Org members don’t pay that since they make almost no money, but the cost of the interrogations gets added to their “Freeloader Debt,” which they are told to pay if they decide someday to leave.)

Like so many other things in Scientology, its interest in the sex lives of its parishioners seems to be a reflection of L. Ron Hubbard’s own obsessions. Hubbard pondered his own sexual history and feelings of guilt in an intense piece of self-examination he wrote in the late 1940s and which is known by the name “Affirmations.”

“I have a very bad masturbatory history,” he writes at one point. “I was taught when I was 11 and, despite guilt, fear of insanity, etc. etc. I persisted. At a physical examination at a Y when I was about 13, the examiner and the people with him called me out of the line because my testicles hung low and cautioned me about what would happen if I kept on masturbating.”

In Affirmations, Hubbard admitted to himself that he suffered from various ailments and had a difficult time performing sexually.

But to his friends, Hubbard bragged about his prowess. As Lawrence Wright revealed in his book Going Clear, Hubbard boasted to his friend Robert Heinlein that as he developed Dianetics, he was getting his old skills back, which had him up to “eight comes” a night.

Hubbard’s legacy is an organization that is fanatical about getting similar confessions out of its members.

As we said earlier, after submitting these detailed life histories, Sea Org members are then subject to intense interrogations, known as “security checks” or “sec checks,” to make sure that they have held nothing back. We’re going to show you excerpts from two reports that resulted from such interrogations.

SecCheckTop

 
From Sec Check Report #1

This is what came up in [name]’s sec check

On the perverted activities section of the life history [name] put that he had stopped masturbating a few months ago and this was not true. The last time that he had masturbated was two days ago in the fourth floor showers. This lasted for five to ten minutes.

On your life history write-up, have you thought on something you did not write down?

[Name] had a ginny[sic] pig and he was fingering it. He used his finger then a thin piece of plastic. He did it for five to ten minutes and then stopped after he realized that he was hurting it. This was in his living room in mid to late [year].

 
From Sec Check Report #2

On your life history write-up has anything been missed?

On [name’s] life history he left out the full data on his Fitness Board TD. He was given a fitness board as he wanted to route out. He was on decks and he had gone to the bathroom in the [building] and masturbated. There was a girl named [name] that he had flirted with at dinner time a few days earlier and had flirted with her since then. She was also the sister of the [officer]. He had masturbated thinking about her.

On your life history write-up is there anything you were embarrassed to write down?

On the question that asks if you have done anything sexually perverted he did not give full details on that. Before he was on the EPF the first time he went to about three different porn websites 15 to 20 times and masturbated to this. Then after he left the EPF and before he came back to the Sea Org he got more involved in looking at porn. He did this about 20-30 minutes for three to four days of the week for nine months. The more abberated things that he looked at included one clip for five seconds of a girl having sex with a dog. He opened a page that had 10- to 11-year-old girls having sex (he promptly closed it as soon as he saw what it was. He was also under age at the time). He did see a man giving another man oral sex. He also saw a transvestite having sex with a girl. There was also a few mother and daughter videos of them having sex with various men. Also one video of a mother and son having sex. He did also look at lesbian porn. There was also several videos of a man with a 14″ penis having sex that he watched. There was also one video of several men masturbating and ejaculating onto one girl. He also saw a video of a girl that was all chained up and a man was peeing in her mouth. He would mostly do this at his dad’s house and a little at his mom’s house. He would usually delete the history so that his parents would not find out. His mom did a few times but just told him not to.

 

————————–

 
These documents are signed by the interrogator under the words, “This is true.”

Such is the tone of report after report, revealing a consistent emphasis by the church for more information about masturbation, pornography, and homosexual experiences.

We have talked to many ex-Scientologists whose names are not known to the public. They tell us they have left the church but don’t dare speak out about its abuses. They know that secrets they’ve confessed to have a way of suddenly showing up in anonymous attack websites that Scientology operates to smear critics.

Yesterday, we sent a request for comment to Scientology spokeswoman Karin Pouw, asking her what possible use the church makes of these reports. If she replies, we’ll post her response here.

 
——————-

FIRST ACTION IN GARCIA LAWSUIT: JUDGE REJECTS SCIENTOLOGY’S REQUEST TO BE WORDY

In January, Scientology was hit with a stunning lawsuit by former church member Luis Garcia and his wife Rocio. Alleging fraud, the Garcias say they were treated as suckers by the church in its various fundraising efforts. The case is being closely watched because there are a lot of other former church members who say they are still owed money by Scientology, which is not giving refunds.

Last week, Scientology’s attorneys made their first reaction to the case, filing a motion so the various church entities named in the suit could file a joint response of 45 pages this week, rather than the 25 pages allowed by local rules.

Ted Babbitt, Garcia’s attorney, tells us his side agreed, but federal judge James D. Whittemore denied the request, limiting Scientology to 25 pages.

Also, Scientology’s document gives an indication of how their response is going to go:

The Plaintiffs have a 28 year relationship with the various Church of Scientology entities joined as Defendants in this matter, and the joint motion will cover the nature of that relationship in some detail, including, numerous written arguments to arbitrate and to utilize other dispute resolution procedures. The motion will also involve questions of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, the Federal Arbitration Act (and cases construing it), The Florida Arbitration Act (and cases construing it), and the interrelationship of those two arbitration acts, Florida Contract Law, and the relationships of the five defendants to each other.

That is a lot to get into 25 pages, and no doubt Scientology’s attorneys are working overtime to get it ready for Wednesday, when it’s due.

But it also shows that the church’s strategy is going to be the same that it was in a similar refund lawsuit, brought in state court by Lynne Hoverson and Bert Schippers. In that case, Scientology argued that church members sign binding contracts that force them to seek refunds through in-house arbitration. And the church’s First Amendment rights to freedom of religion prevented the state court from intervening in the process. The state judge in that case agreed with the church.

Hoverson and Schippers could not convince the judge that Scientology’s arbitration scheme put them in a classic Catch-22 situation, which requires them to seek redress from a panel of church members, who would have no interest in granting their request.

Babbitt says the church will try to put the Garcias in the same bind.

“Our position is going to be that the arbitration provision is completely unconscionable because it requires you to have three Scientologists in good standing arbitrate the case. And you know, if you have Scientologists in good standing, they can’t even talk to someone who is not in good standing,” he says, referring to his clients.

In the complaint they filed in January, the Garcias were careful to point out that they are arguing strictly a fraud case, not a religious one. We’ll see if that is a more effective argument in federal court than it was in state court.

We’ll be very interested to see Scientology’s full response on Wednesday. Here’s the motion the church filed last week…

Scientology Motion For Longer Response by

 
——————-

NOTE: Because of the nature of today’s post, we’re rescheduling this morning’s SMERSH Madness matchup. Tomorrow morning, we’ll have a double-header.

——————-

Posted by Tony Ortega on March 4, 2013 at 07:00

 

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  • It makes me physically ill to see how in depth and deep this cult goes into destroying people’s lives. Disgusting.

    • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

      Me, too. I am feeling nausea but that the Scientology masters do this is no surprise.

      • Missionary Kid

        I’m way beyond nausea and into massive anger.

        • RMycroft

          Heh. Scientology, it’s always worse than you think. Rinse, repeat.

    • valshifter

      I feel like being a scientologist, is like laying completely naked on the oiliness table, while the other scientologist walk around the table and pock at you and make fun of you, while you feel defenseless and vulnerable, and they go on and on , till you ask for forgiveness for being human , and even then all you get back from them is scorn and disdain, but that is what you have to go thru if you want to become a scientologist, so you let them humiliate you like that because you want to be a scientologist, you want to belong to the most ethical group on earth, right? so basically you let them rape you psychological rape.

  • jensting

    Well, extracting the most embarassing confessions of members and then using them later to smear the same members (as happened to Amy Scobee) is just one of those things that a “religious” organisation is allowed to do with no intervention whatsoever from the judiciary in the US. And sponsored by your tax dollars, too. All under the not-so-watchful eye of the elected representatives of the people.
    Remains to be seen how somewhere like, say, Australia takes to this. And of course if somme ex-member were to make a complaint of this nature in England I don’t know what would happen…

  • Cymboli Starsong

    The IRS and Fed Gov are cowards. They know damned well that $cientology is in violation of their tax exemption agreement with the IRS.

    • Missionary Kid

      I’m convinced that Co$ got its exemption by blackmail.

      • Cymboli Starsong

        I believe that too which just further illustrates that our nation is run by a bunch of cowards.

        • FistOfXenu

          Maybe some are just cowards. Maybe they don’t want their spouses to know about an affair or their friends to know they’re kinky or something like that. But maybe a lot of them have too many nasty secrets in their closets and too much ambition. They know that if $cientarCONon tells their secrets they can kiss their ambitions goodby no matter what else happens. Just look at how they went after Mayor Cazares trying to set him up in a hit-run accident. It’s in Mr Atack’s book.

      • Sherbet

        Lawrence Wright pretty much said that in his book. You drop the 2400 law suits, and we’ll give cos tax exemption status.

  • Observer

    I wonder how many “interrogators” masturbate to these confessions. I wonder how often Davey does.

    I have no snark … this is far too sickening.

    • Sherbet

      Observer — that’s a perfect observation.

    • FistOfXenu

      And once again, “$cientology: it’s always worse than you think”.

      • Sherbet

        It reminds me of that old Chubby Checker “Limbo” song: “How low can you go?”

        • FistOfXenu

          I remember that song! But now I’ll never be able to think about it again without thinking of Dave “Standing On A Box” Miscavige reading confessions to get his rocks off…

          I hate Mondays, but I’m really hating today. I need a brain enema.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Yeah, first the Sunday funnies were anything but…and now this?
            Gack already. This makes me want to borrow that fist of yours to punch out Miscavige!

            • FistOfXenu

              You’ll have to stand in line. And if I get started I might not leave much.
              This isn’t a good road for me to go down.

  • mirele

    Too early in the morning to read these. Wait, it’s always too early, even if it’s 5 pm and I’ve just finished work. I understand why you posted these, but seeing them in black and white–ugh. Makes my stomach churn.

  • whingeybingey

    I raised this issue with some Senators and Members of Parliament a couple of years back – the fact that Scientology keeps very personal data. Today Tonight broadcast this at 2:26 in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctngHrqRmrA&webm=1&html5=1#t=2m26s . I also raised it with my local MP who promised to look into it for me, but he has not gotten back to me on that as yet. There is no way this organisation and this material should be exempt from the provisions of the Privacy Act 1988 (Cth) in my opinion. It is just ridiculous.

    • DodoTheLaser

      Thank you for your activism, WB! Much appreciated.

      • whingeybingey

        Well, there’s nothing I like quite so much as a good whinge unless there is food. That’s how my partner came to give me the nickname, replete with “Whingey” stories and “Whingey: The Opera” – including the smash hit single “You’re Horrible” – lol!

        • DodoTheLaser

          You are funny! Thanks again!

          • whingeybingey

            : )

  • MarionDee

    I know my William Blake and Richard Parker, but what does it mean when a Scientologist says “I will become more tiger?” This wog needs help.

    • whingeybingey

      “But only the tigers survive – and even they have a hard time.” A quote by Hubbard.

      • MarionDee

        Thank you, whingey! Destroy without mercy, I assume.

        If I can ask a bit more, was this a one-off in a speech, or part of his written-down ravings?

        • BuryTheNuts2

          The “tiger” is in here somewhere.

          http://carolineletkeman.org/sp/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=168&Itemid=9

          It should be in this: HCO PL 7 Feb 1965 KSW

          • MarionDee

            What a fantastic read! Thank you, BuryTheNuts! “The finest organizations in history [from me: which are LRH referring to?] have been tough, dedicated organizations. Not one namby-pamby bunch of panty-waist dilettantes have ever made anything. It’s a tough universe. The social veneer makes it seem mild. But only the tigers survive — and even they have a hard time. We’ll survive because we are tough and are dedicated. When we do instruct somebody properly he becomes more and more tiger…. When Mrs.Pattycake comes to us to be taught, turn that wandering doubt in her eye into a fixed, dedicated glare and she’ll win and we’ll all win. Humor her and we all die a little. The proper instruction attitude is, “You’re here so you’re a Scientologist. … We’d rather have you dead than incapable” Of course, LRH forgot the caveat…unless you give us money, in which case we want you alive as hell.

            It seems to me (and I’m no religious scholar) that religions tend to recognize both the strength and the frailty of human nature. (Their most extreme divisions don’t, but I guess that’s why these are usually marginalized.) Even Blake’s poem, which is VERY spiritual, acknowledges not just the tiger’s terrifying beauty, but also that the same hand that made him made the lamb.
            So doubt and faith go together, in that doubt leads to exploration, and either a break with the church or an even stronger affirmation. But LRH seems to think that doubt, in its way, is even more threatening than a tiger.

            Well, I’m blathering, Thank you again, BuryTheNuts and whingeybingey.

  • HeatherGraceful

    Tony, it’s very brave of your sources to allow you to read and post excerpts from the documents. (I’m assuming they disclosed their own documentation.) It’s very personal material and it is disgusting that records are kept of these confessions. It is disturbing enough that these questions are asked – particularly of children!

    Thanks for the litigation update. There’s a conga line of potential plaintiffs watching and learning.

    • swell

      Of course, to the auditors, children are just “little adults,” and so there’s no chance that asking questions of a deeply personal and sexual nature will harm them… I mean, it’s not like they are too young to understand the implications of it, or feel a misplaced level of shame, right? Right guys? /sarcasm.

  • Peter Robinson

    Like the roman catholics, scientology seems to have a fascination with private sexual behaviour. Clearly a means of blackmailing people if the ‘need’ arises (forgive the punning). Shall we mention Tom and John in this context?

    • swell

      Except that the Catholic church doesn’t write all the shit down.

      • hogarthian

        It doesn’t need to!!! The psychological carnival of the macabre starts right where you have to THINK about confessing, never mind saying the shit out loud!

        • swell

          Oh, I’m not saying they need to. The entire “confession” routine is one that I find to be bullshit, and useful for nothing other than exerting control.

          The fact that Scientology takes it one step further and writes it all down is what makes it even worse.

          • hogarthian

            Appalling, trying to imagine what it must feel like to have to reveal your sex life/mind to someone makes me feel physically ill.

          • hogarthian

            It’s appalling. The thought of being forced to reveal my sex life/mind makes me feel physically sick. And may well make the recipient feel the same. 😉

          • hogarthian

            and now I’m repeating myself. great.

    • Most actual practicing Catholics don’t give a toss, at least the ones I’ve known. They and the Vatican could not be farther apart.

      American Evangelicals, on the other hand…

      • FistOfXenu

        “don’t give a toss” – LOL!

  • Good to see an update on the Garcia case. So Judge Whittemore limited Sci to 25 pages instead of 45, LOL, he didn’t feel like wading through 20 extra pages of their drivel. It looks like Sci is going to say Garcias have to go through internal arbitration. Here’s hoping this judge will see that sham for what it is.

  • chris

    How does the “church” convince its members that this information is relevant? Also, why would a “church” demand to know such information? It’s repugnant and obvious that the only reason they need to know about the sex lives of its members is so they can blackmail them later when they try to leave. Sickening.

    • hogarthian

      Most churches do it. Abortion? – going to hell. Gay sex? – going to hell. You can have sex, but you do it our way, or you’re going to hell. For scientologists, I suppose, leaving the church amounts to going to hell.

      • EnthralledObserver

        I highly doubt ‘most’ churches do it – they may hear confessions and advise what they believe is right to their parishoners, but what church, other than Scientology, demand to know these things upon joinng do you know of? I don’t know of any – please enlighten me so I can add them to my ‘suspicious’ list.

        • hogarthian

          ‘they may hear confessions and advise’….. well, why would any church want to hear any confession, about anything? The word confession implies ensuing guilt. Surely we’ve evolved beyond having to ask forgiveness from some god we’ve never met?! I’m going to stick to christianity… it’s a fact that in some incarnations of it, abortion, gay sex, deviant sex is not allowed. I thought we all knew that?

          • EnthralledObserver

            That’s a broad brush you are using there… my Anglican church, a Christian religion, does not hear confessions at all. For the record I don’t believe in God, I have some connection to the church because some family enjoys involvement and I allow my children to participate in some of their activities for fun and education so they can make their own informed choices later down the track. I think the Catholic church does hear confessions, but from what I understand it is completely voluntary, even if encouraged for purposes of getting something off your chest and unburdening yourself – I don’t believe anyone writes anything down – and the parishoner is only advised based on the Catholic beliefs how they should/might make amends for what they have done wrong. Two of my daughters go to a Catholic school, where taking ‘religion’ as a subject is compulsary,but have never even mentioned ‘confessions’, so I don’t believe anyone is forcing anyone to do anything.
            Sure, religions have guidelines for life, that’s fine for those who wish to live by them, but Scientology’s doctrines enforce, trick, coerce and punish people excessively and unrealistically… and it all stems from one delusional man whose ramblings show us precisely where his hypocritical, deviant and warped ideas were imposed on others in a strange and sick way to try to alleviate his own guilt.

            • hogarthian

              Ok, let me try to explain this again, and hopefully not rain on anyone’s religious parade. In my opinion, ‘most’ organised religion contains potentially guilt inducing elements. The catholic church does, of course, hear confession. “Forgive me father for I have sinned, it has been *** weeks since my last confession”. Sinning because you haven’t confessed? And yes, you’re right, once you have confessed you are advised how to make amends by saying a few ‘hail mary’s’ and a couple of ‘our father’s’. The anglican church, up until very recently, preached hell fire and brimstone for those who ‘sinned’….. being more liberal than the catholic’s, they have eased off and, surprise surprise, member numbers continue to fall. Churches that induce guilt tend to keep their numbers up, that’s all i’m saying. I’m just pointing out the sin/confession/guilt link between SOME religions, that’s all. Of course they’re not forced. Just gently encouraged, with the advice that if they don’t, there will be consequences of some kind. My daughters also attend a catholic school but are not catholics, they aren’t required to confess either. I hear ya, I really do!

            • dbloch7986

              It’s a commonly accepted idea that confessing perceived or actual guilt will relieve a heavy conscience. This is true whether it’s connected to a religious idea or not.

              The difference is that when you tell the priest that you feel guilty for cheating on your wife, he doesn’t write down your name, record your conversation, take notes and then tell everyone within a 50 mile radius about it. Scientologists do.

              I’m not sure why you’re acting like confession is such an outrageous idea. Everyone confesses something at some point in their lives. It’s not always in a religious setting, but sometimes that’s how people choose to seek forgiveness. Perhaps it’s for the better because if you confess to your parents that you stole money from them and they disown you for the rest of their lives, sometimes God is the only place you can find perceived forgiveness. As long as you think someone forgives you, it’s better than feeling forever guilty.

            • Ciru

              The difference is the forced nature of Scientology confession. Catholic confession isn’t checked with a lie detector, written down and cross checked with previous confessions.

            • stanrogers

              Actually, it (the Anglican Church) does hear confessions. It’s not considered a sacrament, it isn’t a weekly (or pre-communion) ritual, and you have to ask for it, but it’s there. (I believe it’s referenced in the small-print preface to the Eucharist in the Book of Common Prayer if you can’t find it anywhere else.) As with all reasonable confessionals, it’s not about exposing your dark side for its own sake, but to find a path from guilt to absolution. As far as the ordinary rituals go, there is just the general confession or Act of Contrition (“…We have followed the devices and desires of our own hearts… We have left undone those things which we ought to have done, and we have done those things which we ought not to have done, and there is no health in us…”) recited together in the service with no particulars. Hey, we’re human, we err—probably a few hundred times a day each, so there’s no point going into deep detail.

              (Whether that absolution is granted ritually by a third party or is, as it ultimately ought to be, the finding of self-forgiveness, is immaterial to the worth of a private confessional. As often as not, the confessor’s role is to disabuse the penitent of some imagined inner monstrosity, and assure them that what they’ve thought or done is all part of being human. If it’s something that’s officially frowned upon by doctrine but part of the imperfect human condition, a token “punishment” might be assigned, like the recitation of a prayer or psalm, or just to smile and say hello to the first person they meet after the session, just to keep the penitent from feeling guilty about having gotten away with something they were feeling guilty about. On other occasions, a plan for real amends, or a suitable substitute if amends are impossible or would cause further harm, so that the penitent can clear his/her guilt is the main outcome. The formula is used in most religions, as well as in therapeutic environments outside of religion. The feelings of guilt and worthlessness are horrible, horrible things for a person to carry around with them. Confession, in and of itself, is not a bad thing. Keeping records and intimating that “ve haff vays uff zeeink your Vitholds mit das Machine” *is* a bad thing.)

            • valshifter

              I don’t think is nothing wrong with confessing, what is wrong is that scientologist use it to black mail you with your own confessions, other religions do not do that, not that I know. that is the part I don’t agree with, recording confessions with the porpoise to black mail, that is disgusting and evil.

            • Johan

              If I understand what you are trying to get across: with or without confessions, fundamentalist churches use guilt and shame as a tool to control people’s behavior. They also have ways of ferreting out the things you may feel guilty about, confessions are one such method. Fair enough?

            • hogarthian

              Oh thank god! YES!! That’s what I’m trying to get across, and failing in spectacular fashion. Thank you!

            • Missionary Kid

              There are also confessions that are effected when a person prays in a prayer meeting. I’ve seen that. Usually, though, the confession in that setting was non-sexual.

            • sugarplumfairy

              As a child in catholic school, we used to be taken by the nuns into the adjoining church where we would all stand in line and await our turn in the confessional.. I remember never being prepared for this and could never remember my sins, if indeed I even had any.. So I would go into the dark little closet and make up a confession i.e. “I disobeyed my parents twice, I pinched my baby brother and made him cry”.. Then I would add “and I lied once..” I figured that last one covered me..

              Anyway, my point is, no one ever humiliated or shamed me and no one ever asked me about sex.. In the catholic faith, you go or you don’t.. Nobody gives you a hard time if you miss confession.. And nobody talks about what you confess.. Ever!! And it’s FREE!!

            • hogarthian

              Point taken. Apologies.

            • sugarplumfairy

              None needed.. I was kidding about the cat o’ nine..

            • CraftLass

              LOL, I remember the same feeling, SPF! One time I even confessed that I had made up my confession, and that was my sin for the week.

              In some other countries where I have friends raised in Catholicism (especially where it’s the official national religion) there is some shaming if you don’t confess, as they do bar you from communion and that’s very public, but there is still secrecy in the actual confessing. And, yes, it is always free, even if you can’t afford to tithe! Although, did you hear about this new rule in Germany, where if you don’t pay your tithing taxes (they collect via the government there) the CC won’t let you do any sacraments anymore? It’s a big story over there right now.

              The more I think about all of this stuff the more I feel that no tax exemption should be given to any religion. It would be a great way to distinguish between real belief and a cult leader’s desire to get wealthier. It would make no difference to a true believer but it would make a huge difference to scammers.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Amen, Craftlass.. Welcome back..

            • CraftLass

              Thank you!!! It’s great to be back!

            • dbloch7986

              Catholic confession is intended to relieve guilt so that you can simply tell someone what you have done wrong, make up for it and move on. Scientology uses their confessions to enforce guilt and subjugate the masses. Scientologists as a whole are never relieved of guilt because those crimes are recorded and will continually be used against them during their entire course of participation and after to coerce them into silence or to handing over money.

            • EnthralledObserver

              “Churches that induce guilt tend to keep their numbers up” – CO$ is diminishing, don’t forget, and it is the king of guilt inducement – I don’t think there is a correlation.
              I hear your point, but I don’t agree that it is ‘guilt’ inducement, I think it is a moral standard they are encouraging people to strive for and confessions can help people put their misdeeds behind them and continue to reach. The whole point is that if you acknowledge your sin (which is self determined by choosing to accept the set of moral codes a church puts forth – unlike Scientology’s list of loaded questions leaving no doubt what are the distateful ‘sins’ they want to hear about) you are then forgiven.
              Scientology, at no point, offers forgiveness for the spilling of sins. And in fact they tell you those sins remain a part of you until you’ve paid them to get rid of them for you – they USE the sins, and THEN they are still kept on record to potentially be brought back up at a later date to control or silence you. Whilst a very, very vague similarity exists in the revealing of sins/confessions, I hardly see them the same.

            • hogarthian

              I don’t entirely agree. But hopefully that’s ok.

            • EnthralledObserver

              It’s more than ok. Cheers for the discussion.

            • CraftLass

              Hi Bunkerites! I’ve been lurking since Sandy (lost my home for awhile, getting back to “real life” took some time, but all is well now and I’ve been lurking while too busy to comment, this subject is too fascinating and maddening to drop). Today’s post is just too horrifying not to comment on. I mean, seriously, aside from the guinea pig, these confessions are of things that are perfectly acceptable in modern society. Every time I hear someone say “TC (or JT) can’t leave because the CofS will tell the world he’s gay,” all I can think is, “That would make him so, so, so much more popular now!” I have no idea if he is or not, nor is there any reason I should care. This sexual stuff is just another example of how CofS is still living in the decade it was created in. That was a pretty horrible decade for anyone who wasn’t a straight middle-class-or-higher white man, and boy, am I glad I wasn’t alive then!

              The reason I hit “reply” here is to answer EnthralledObserver’s and Hogarthian’s commentary on Catholic confessions. First Confession is a major sacrament (akin to baptism, marriage, etc.), it’s done at different ages at different churches and in different diocese, mine was at the age of 9 in 4th grade. Here’s where things get a bit nutty and confusing: You are technically not allowed to take communion (the holy wafer that has been transmuted into a piece of the body of Christ and the wine that is his blood) until you have confessed all of your sins, done your penance (which usually is about lots of prayer and reflection), and vowed to never voluntarily repeat that sin. The thing that struck me as really weird back when I was going through the classes for this sacrament is that my First Communion was 2 years earlier, which makes no sense according to their own dogma. Also, if you die between the time of committing a sin and getting to confess you are not absolved of that sin, which is why priests come to deathbeds to hear confession and, if the patient is able, give one final communion. The First Confession for many kids is scary even in churches that don’t use the confessional box (the thing you always see in movies and TV, many churches have stopped using them in favor of face-to-face conversation, although many do still use them). At 9, most kids only have tiny things to confess, like cheating on homework or shoplifting a candy bar, but the thought of telling the priest really screws up your head. The actual confession part wasn’t nearly as scary as the lead-up. lol Of course, today’s Catholics tend not to live up to the dogma of the religion, and many don’t confess for years on end, since most churches don’t actually stop you from taking communion due to lack of confession anymore (you are technically supposed to confess every week). Also, these confessions are as secret as can be, priests can’t even tell their own superior any of what they heard. Now that I’m an adult and “out” about my atheism I almost miss having such a private sounding board, I was lucky to have priests who were far better therapists than any of the therapists I’ve been to. lol

              What the CofS does is *nothing* like a Catholic confession. Priests ask, “What would you like to confess?” The CofS asks, “Tell us *everything* about your life and, oh, by the way, tell us every bit of dirt you have on your peers while you’re at it. We’ll tell you and the government that it’s private but we’ll pass it around for giggles until we need to blackmail you.”

              Yeah, no comparison.

              The part of Jenna’s book that discusses these life histories gave me shivers and made me think back to how nervous I was just to confess that I had lied to a friend to get out of going to a movie I didn’t want to see. I can’t imagine being 12 and having to answer any sort of question about sex! My stomach has been flipping for days over this, and reading actual pieces of such histories has definitely made it worse.

            • TonyOrtega

              Thanks very much for this great comment and for joining the conversation, CraftLass.

            • CraftLass

              Awww, thanks for the welcome! And thank you for continuing to blog post-Voice, even when I just lurk, reading your posts has kept me remembering that even when my life feels hellish, there are people far worse off who need help a lot more and it keeps me fighting for myself, for others, and for the REAL greater good – actual freedom and kindness.

            • DodoTheLaser

              You are sure not alone, lady. Thank you for your kindness and care.
              And for sharing your thoughts here.

            • CraftLass

              Awww, thanks, Dodo! That means a lot. 🙂

            • Lawrence

              What this boils down to is a member of the church (a “Scientologist” if you will) sitting in front of you with you on an e-meter being monitored calling you names like: faggot, pussy, cocksucker, dyke, lezzy, takes it up the ass, masturbator, pedophile – until you give them some money. Is that worth any amount of money?

            • DodoTheLaser

              No. Auditors don’t call you names. Executives do sometimes.

              Scientology is a failed cause from its birth, regardless, though.

            • Welcome …hope things are getting better for you after Sandy …good vibes to you 😉

            • CraftLass

              Thanks, Kim! Things are back to “normal” except that I’m doing a lot more MEST work than I’d like (giggle, wink)… which is a bit surreal as I’ve been listening to audiobooks about Scientology while I work. Puts a bit of a different spin on major cleaning projects… lol. And it’s nice to be able to say that to someone who can get that statement instead of just looking at me funny. I was really lucky though, our problems were just about power and heat, since I live a few floors up. It is amazing how disgusting an abandoned apartment can get, though, and I’m far from a clean freak. Refugee life wasn’t fun, but I always had somewhere to stay and really learned what human kindness is, because my friends made sure that I know I can be houseless, but never homeless. Good vibes are ALWAYS appreciated, too! 🙂

            • dbloch7986

              Thanks so much CraftLass. This reinforces what I continually try to tell trolls on the internets: Scientology is NOT “like” any other religion. It is a cult, a scary cult, one that denies basic freedoms to individuals through threats and subjugation. “Most” religions do not do that.

            • CraftLass

              You’re welcome, Derek! Anything I can do to back you up, anytime. 🙂 Since I decided at 6 that I was NOT Catholic (the age I started finding out the truth about many of their lies, like inventing Christmas in December to suck in the pagans despite astronomical evidence to the contrary, if Jesus even existed and was any of what they told me) but didn’t have a choice about participating, I became a voracious armchair theologist, working my way through the major religions then onto ancient and new ones. When I finally looked into Scientology a little over a year ago, I immediately was both horrified and full of empathy for those who got hooked. It’s got very little in common with other religions, they just like to paint a pretty picture of comparisons so the rest of us will leave them alone (especially the IRS lol). I mean, geez, using a cross as the symbol, even?!?! Yet… I see how the philosophies they show to the public are appealing and how people can get sucked in. Thanks to exes like you, the truth comes out more every day and people like me, who are passionate about the role of religion in society, can not only be warned, but see why it’s important to support your efforts in whatever way we can. Almost every religion has some sort of brutal history, but I can’t exactly do anything to make up for something that happened in the 11th-13th centuries. Maybe I can’t do anything to help current atrocities, but I’m sure as hell going to try to support any efforts to end them or at least bring them to light. No child should have to go through any of what you went through, ever. It was bad enough to not have a choice about my own family’s religion, which I was never abused in but will still be messing up my head for life. *Hugs* to you!

            • dbloch7986

              You’re so sweet CraftLass! *Hugs* back atcha.

              The cross is actually a modification of a satanic cross used by Alister Crowley (Hubbards satanic mentor).

              As far as the brutal histories are concerned, well to be frank a lot of those religions popped up shortly before or during the dark ages when the planet was really a brutal place, in the most literal sense of the word. We simply don’t live in that kind of world anymore.

            • CraftLass

              Heck, what do you think caused the Dark Ages? Humans were doing amazing things like creating technologies on par with centuries later, figuring out advanced mathematics, and developing the tenets that would form the basis for modern society. Then Christianity came along and destroyed as much of it as possible, by doing things like burning down the Great Library at Alexandria, torturing and killing academics like Hypatia, mandating that all art and scholarship be religious in nature, and creating societies of powerless illiterates. Yes, the world was already pretty brutal, but the destruction of knowledge created a world of hopelessness for centuries.

              The lessons of the creation of the Dark Ages are exactly what make me speak up when I see ANYONE trying to emulate that, which many are doing right now in the name of many causes. I keep hearing that many people want us to go back to the 50s, but I see more of a push to return to the Dark Ages than the 50s.

              Ahh, yes, Crowley – I actually studied him extensively when I was young, due to Jimmy Page’s following of him. When I first read about Hubbard’s involvement with Jack Parsons and Crowley’s teachings it made a whole lot of other stuff make way more sense. Still, the use of Crowley’s cross was brilliant, because the vast majority of people in this world know little about Crowley and just assume that anything with a cross is a solid religion. It probably also helps keep the ignorant thinking that Scn is related to Christian Science (which seems to also generally be considered weird but less weird than Scn). I sure used to get the two confused when I was more ignorant about them!

              I guess the overall summary of this comment is: Education is really, really important (not necessarily the school kind, but the constant education that anyone can get just by reading lots and talking with intelligent people). It’s like a vaccine against most evils.

          • You’re British, right? This might explain why you’re ready to say things that many Americans are not used to hearing.

            Most commenters here are American. Americans in general are not used to people talking about religion in any depth, let alone criticizing it. I am, and I do, and I completely agree with everything you’re saying. Also, preparing for some downvotes myself for pointing out that, while what Scientology does in this area is appalling, it’s anything but new. Further, they’re a tiny organization compared to most that do it.

            • hogarthian

              Llil… Your comment has just made me think that there may, after all, be a god. Ta! 😉

            • dbloch7986

              Lliira and Hogarthian, the subject matter here is Scientology. Scientology does things that MIGHT seem a LITTLE similar, a TINY BIT similar to other religions, but this is only because it masquerades as one. In fact comparing Scientology to religion is like comparing apples to match sticks. Scientology is not a religion and should not be compared to religion.

      • Sherbet

        “Most churches” don’t make their parishioners sign documents attesting to what they’ve done. And parishioners’ confessions lead to the opportunity for repentance if the transgressions are deemed sinful in the eyes of those churches.

        • hogarthian

          whooaaaaa……. ok, let me back the truck up here. I’m absolutely not saying that what Scientology does is or should be a bit more acceptable because similar practices are evident in other religions!! I’m not saying that at all. I’m just railing against the whole ‘confession’ ideology. Please don’t be offended.

          • Sherbet

            Hogarth, whenever somebody tries to defend cos in a blog, the first thing they say is, “All churches…” do XYZ. I know you’re condemning scn’s practices like the rest of us, but it seemed you were painting with that well-known broad brush. Sorry I got my hackles raised. It doesn’t take much to raise said hackles. Hanging around this blog makes one over-alert for people who throw all babies out with cos’s polluted bathwater.

            • hogarthian

              Yup, I should have thought of that myself. Be reassured, I am far from defending them! Don’t apologise for your trigger happy hackles… they’re a good early warning system. I think I’ve upset a few people with my general anti-religion dialogue today. For which I’m sorry. 🙂

            • Sherbet

              Disarming my hackles…

            • jensting

              A. Organisation. May. Be. A. Religion. Or. Not.

              Being. A. Cult. Is. A. Different. Question.

      • jensting

        “most churches” do not write this information down when interrogating pre-teens on lie detectors. “Most churches” do not publish this information to discredit ex-members who blow the whisttle on criminal behaviour. The criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology does both of these things, tho’

        • DodoTheLaser

          Exactly. Thank you, Jensting.

      • “For scientologists, I suppose, leaving the church amounts to going to hell.”
        But oddly, once they leave they realize that staying in was hell.

    • dwayners13

      I’m sure they convince their members that by divulging the most private details of their sexual experiences & thoughts, they somehow become better thetans. Basically, it’s for their own good to confess their sexual histories, have them documented & stored on file. Why or how is it good? Because LRH said so that’s why!

      • FistOfXenu

        Getting ethics in on 2D, finding withholds, making sure case is completely handled, the rationalizations are plentiful. You’re supposed to get the impression that if these things become a problem in later auditing they’ll already have the necessary data to study your case and handle it.

        Speaking of which, if I live to be 100 I’ll still chuckle over the words “periodic masterbation” (that’s his spelling) followed by the question “any handlings on this”.
        It’s monday, I’m allowed to be childish.

        • hogarthian

          Well, that made me LOL!

          • FistOfXenu

            Glad to oblige. See the reg officer for your next service.

        • Sherbet

          “Any handlings on this?” “Um, yeah, that’s the problem…”

        • EnthralledObserver

          Blow, handling/handlers, oiliness… any more sexual innuendo? Is it possible this LRon fellow had a wicked sense of humour inserting all this ‘language’ into his cult dialect? lol

          • FistOfXenu

            In his affirmations he was plainly obsessed with his sexuality. And in his life. I figure he made the most noise against the things he saw in himself and hated the things he hated about himself. He had all the usual early 20th century hangups about wanking and hated himself for it I think. At the same time he spent all that time with Jack Parsons doing that “holy masturbation” thing to try and create a moonchild or whatever the hell they were doing (don’t have Blue Sky handy so I can’t look it up). How could he stop himself from crusading against masturbation? The guy was a 1st class jerk off – every way you want to take that. So I think all the sex obsession and sex hating infected how he designed $cientarCONon too. Just my opinion.

    • How does any religion convince its members that this information is relevant? Scientology is far from alone in insisting its members must only have sex in one way, must never masturbate, and must share any supposed “deviations” with either the hierarchy or the entire church.

      Fundamentalist religions, including Scientology, like to have a monopoly on ecstasy. Sex is a serious threat to that, and masturbation a particularly serious threat, because it’s something anyone can do any time they’re alone.

      • hogarthian

        How does any religion convince its members that this information is relevant? …. Because many more of us than we realise are ****ing brainwashed!

      • dbloch7986

        The punishment for masturbation is most religions is not, “Let’s stand you up in front of everyone and have you detail at what speed you stroke your penis and describe the state of your penis and the size of your testicles. Also please tell us who and what you fantasize about during said masturbation sessions.”

  • hogarthian

    Jesus H. Christ.

    Of course, the regulation of the physical body (justified by the insinuation that therein lies spiritual salvation) has been around ‘religiously’ since the year dot. Christianity allows you to have sex, with conditions – it has to be only between a man and a woman, only for procreation, not carried out in public, not exchanged for money (although we’ve been programmed to believe that married women having sex for shoes and handbags is fine), and only of the common-or-garden variety i.e. not ‘deviant’. Some religions don’t trust you to follow their sexual instructions and ask you to confess your ‘sins’.

    That confession shit reproduced above is an escalation of what ‘religions’, governments, clan leaders, whatever you want to call who’s in charge, have been doing for years, social control leads to body control leads to guilt leads to mind control etc etc…..

    I find the fact that the human race can still, after thousands of years, be bullied and blackmailed into compliance by using this thing we call sex both exhausting and boring, in equal measure. We need to wake up.

    Maybe all anti-sci’s should note down all of their sexual proclivities and send them to all the sci’s they know? You know, something like this:

    Hi, my name is ****, I am married with four kids. I have sex with my husband twice a week. I imagine he’s someone else. He has sometimes used prostitutes. I have had an affair. I haven’t had anal sex, but I’d like to try it. I’ve had a threesome, but not with my husband. I watch porn. I masturbate. So does he. I think it’s all allowed.

    Best wishes, a perfectly normal, functioning human being x

    What a bunch of C U Next Tuesday’s!!!!!

    • Christianity allows you to have sex, with conditions

      Depends on the flavor of Christianity. The loudest ones screech exactly what you say, though. Often on streetcorners. (According to the right-wing Christians around here, I am going to hell for being a slut-whore for… being female on a college campus, apparently.) And this kind of fundamentalism never acknowledges that consent is a thing that exists, either, at least not as a thing that a woman can exercise. If you’re a married man and woman, it does not matter if the wife doesn’t want it, the husband gets to do what he likes, so long as he follows the correct anatomical procedure. And if you’re a loving lesbian couple, it doesn’t matter how much you’re both screaming yes: you’re going to hell.

      • hogarthian

        I’m giving you a standing ovation…. As I type.

  • BosonStark

    Looking at the silver lining, maybe the accessibility of sexual information on the web and Internet porn will sink the Sea Org, or at least contribute to its clash with modernity.

    Before the Internet, or back in the 70’s let’s say, most teens did not have access to videos watching plain intercourse, and many did not even see pictures of it. Now it’s easily accessible and I don’t feel civilization is collapsing from it. Instead, the wealth of open information about sex — including masturbation and homosexuality — as well as being able to see it, is not allowing parents or religious institutions to do all the steering and myth making with regard to information about sex.

    The Sea Org uses sexual information to instill guilt and uses it as control, and probably to try to channel people’s sexual energies into fervent work for the Sea Org. Because I believe in open access to information about sex and sexuality, does not mean I think it is right for an organization to record and control every aspect of a person’s sexual thinking and behavior. Those are different things, but that’s what you have in the Sea Org.

    Thirteen to twenty something year old guys that are getting pains in their testicles or overwhelming ideas about sex with no kind of release (masturbation) is just abnormal and unhealthy. Worse, the reporting of each other for masturbating in the shower or whatever, because they have no privacy makes it all worse.

    So, while the rest of society is opening about about sexuality, you have the Sea Org using it to control and trying to adhere to the cuckoo of Dr. Hubtard and the organization he created — which is all too odd given that Hubbard was such a sexual rascal himself.

    Thanks to Tony for pointing out the details of these confessions and reports. It’s important for Sea Org members to see that, and especially people outside who are thinking of joining the Sea Org.

    • Twenty to thirty something year old women having no sexual release is also unhealthy. Seriously, deeply, creepily, insanely unhealthy. Though I admit, my sex drive at 36 is much stronger than it was at 26.

      Actually, anyone being not allowed sexual release from the time they hit puberty to the grave is unhealthy. It’s just wanking, ffs! Anyone who tries to stop you from doing that in the privacy of your own home, in a way which involves no one else, is a sick creep with a control fetish.

    • DodoTheLaser

      Great points, BosonStark!
      The whole practice of coercion to reveal deeply private sexual experiences feels like an emotional/spiritual rape. It’s humiliating and not therapeutic, unless the deed revealed was hurtful to other/s and was a burden,
      which most of the time is not the case.

  • 0tessa

    I can think of only one reason why ‘someone’ wants to know all these details of a sexual nature and that is: good old BLACKMAIL, be it psychological or material (money).

    • whingeybingey

      Apparently wee Davey also enjoys the details for entertainment purposes if the personage is sufficiently famous. What could be more fun than having a bit of a laugh with friends over a Glenfiddich single malt, savouring each priest-penitent privileged sexual escapade and peccadillo? Wheeeee!

      • FistOfXenu

        And of course we could ask the question “what else is DM doing with these confessions, like say, when he’s alone in his bed?”

        • 0tessa

          MASTERbating.

  • BuryTheNuts2

    Hmmmm. I need more coffee and to ponder this for a while before I start spewing.

    • Sherbet

      Bury, there isn’t enough coffee in the world to make this scn garbage palatable. Imagine making people feel guilty — and less than human — for doing human things. If a person does feel guilty about anything, a little confession can be therapeutic, but cos demanding signed declarations goes way beyond a little catharsis. Sickening.

      • FistOfXenu

        Absolutely, Sherbet. I really have to start postponing my visits to The Bunker for later in the day. I’m looking at perfectly cooked (and audited) eggs and nice crisp bacon next to my 2nd mug of coffee and thinking “this is the 2nd day in a row I’ve wanted to barf on my breakfast”. Can’t be good, right?

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Not unless your dieting?

          • FistOfXenu

            If only! I’m trying to bulk up. Nausea’s a bad way to do it.

        • Sherbet

          Good luck with that, FistOfXenu. I get to work early and dive right into the Bunker. I can’t help it. No wonder I often start the day with a good case of agita.

          • FistOfXenu

            that’ll do it Sherbet. Your colleagues probably think your home life’s hell and you’re taking it out on them. 😛 I think I should maybe wait for my 3 pm break or something. Or nights. But then it wrecks my sleep.

        • EnthralledObserver

          (audited eggs) hahaha… with the frypan a spatula, right?

          • FistOfXenu

            Yep. Only the latest tech here. I’m still working on the right way to audit the bacon. So far I got
            “Squeel like a pig!” “Thank you!”
            But I need to see the movie again in slomo to figure out how to hook up the e-meter.

  • Comment blog statistics so far: sexual history 17, Garcias 1.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      That was good!

  • May_West

    I would guess there’s some statutory rape in those dox, that sci was probably required to report.
    The people asking those questions are the perverts.Overall, sickening.

  • MarionDee

    Obviously, the guinea pig story is really distasteful, but it has this: “He did it for five or ten minutes and then stopped after he realized he was hurting it.” Right there, this Scientologist had a stroke of perception–preferring kindness to cruelty–that RLH could not have achieved on his luckiest day.

    • FistOfXenu

      Yeah, that’s such a big step forward for the guy I’m actually willing to let him off for needing 5 or 10 minutes to figure it out. In his whole life Hub never recognized when he was hurting someone and chose to stop.

  • richelieu jr

    I have a confession to make. I am a masturbator.

    I do it for release.I do it for fun!
    I do with with/to my girlfriends…

    The last time I did it was an hour ago. I was fantasizing about all these files being rolled up and shoved repeatedly up David Miscavige’s ass.

    It was beautiful. I have no regrets.

    What’s true in what is true for me, and I believe my body belongs to me and that LRH and Miscarriage are twisted sic men, rendered mad by their impotence where it counts and forced to take it out on the world…
    Pzersonally, I believe in making myself and those I love feel good, and those around me feel better.

    If you don’t like it, Tough toenails.

    • Sherbet

      Oh, dang, there goes your career in the SO. (Just sign on the dotted line.) You must be really disappointed now.

    • FistOfXenu

      You are? Did you have to start as an apprenticebator and work your way up? Is there a hatting for it somewhere in Ron’s rants or did you invent your own drills and study pack?

    • sugarplumfairy

      I’m surprised you took time to comment.. I’m impressed!

      • FistOfXenu

        Latency time.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          I call it recovery!

          • sugarplumfairy

            poor males.. their meat bodies are so inferior.. =)

            • FistOfXenu

              But at least some females take pity on us and, uh, “help” us with our inferior meat bodies.

              On behalf of heterosexual males everywhere, I thank those females from the bottom of my heart.
              😛

            • sugarplumfairy

              On behalf of heterosexual females, you’re welcome..

    • Bob

      You are one sick puppy. The idea of soiling those pristine and private folders in Miscaviage’s anal passage made me throw up repeatedly. I was in the bathroom for at least an hour!!!! 🙁

      • Tom C

        I’ve pounded DM’s fun hole more times than I can count. I liked me to cream pie him at the end.

    • SP ‘Onage

      Good job horndog! 😀

    • Man, thinking about Miscavige while masturbating would turn me off from masturbation for at least a week. Blech.

      • richelieu jr

        If you stop masturbating then the terrori–oops! Scientologists have won!
        That’s just what Miscavige would want you to do!

        • hogarthian

          Maybe the next anti-sci demo should just stand outside one of their ‘churches’ and wank themselves senseless.

          • i-Betty

            Hilarious!

          • FistOfXenu

            No point going to jail for $cientarCONon. Just get a bunch of people doing that fake orgasm thing like in that scene in that famous Meg Ryan movie in unison. That’s more than enough to do the job.

            • hogarthian

              Crackin’ pun!! ‘do the job’… more lollage from me!

    • grundoon

      Your one-handed typing is quite good, Richelieu. Practice makes perfect.

    • valshifter

      I feel like being a scientologist is like; being naked on top of the oiliness table just laying there with your naked body unable to hide anything, while other scientologist walk around staring at your naked body, pocking and making fun of you all they can, while you lay there defenseless unable to hide your imperfections, asking for forgiveness for being human, and all you get back from them is scorn and disdain, but you let them do it because you want to be a scientologist right? otherwise they wont let you belong.

  • BuryTheNuts2

    One of the things that strikes me about this is how benign these confessions really are.
    OK, I admit I would like to slap the Guinea Pig guy in the back of his head, but I digress…
    So they take normal people and coerce these confessions, inducing shame for what are normal biological and emotional reactions.
    What a great control mechanism!
    What are your crimes? What? You had an orgasm or fifty? You watched Porn? You masturbated?
    Jesus H. Christ!
    What is truly disturbing about this is the use of this ridiculous information to straight-jacket someones thought process. This is just one more brick in the wall of the thought stopping prison they are all in.
    And it is a particularly important brick…maybe a keystone.
    We will use shame to control you and if you refuse to be controlled we will use your p/c file to blackmail you.
    Pick you’re poison.
    You cannot help but notice the “guilt” tone to these confessions that is induced by this shitty process. It is inevitable to be otherwise.

    The perversion in all this has little to do with the actual sexual nature of these confessions. It is the total mindfuck of process and its outcome on the individual.
    LRH was an evil sick puppy and Miscavige is his evil shadow.
    The only real difference is LRH didn’t need a speechwriter.
    I don’t believe in Hell, but I am going to pretend that I do just so can enjoy the movie I am about write and then play in my head.

    I have to go to a meeting in a few minutes and that is not good, because now I want to scream at somebody.
    (Don’t worry, I won’t)

    Our government needs it’s ass kicked for letting this shit continue.

    • dbloch7986

      It’s not about the severity, rather it’s about the embarrassment that these people suffer. These life histories are read by so many people all the way to the top of Scientology. Groups of Sea Org members read them and laugh over them. I’ve been there. The documents are all stored and searchable in the church databases.

      This is the the shame and guilt control factor of Scientology. This is how people get stuck inside. When you are pulling your hair out screaming why do people stay in the church, this is the answer. Because they fingered a guinea pig’s ass and now these people know about it, and if they leave then this information may no longer be a secret.

      • FistOfXenu

        “at least I THINK it was a guinea pig. It was tiny. I guess it could’ve been David Miscavige”

        • Observer

          Snort! This is the only thing on here that’s made me laugh today.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            That made me chuckle too.
            I must admit…the last week or so of this blog (exception on the day of the dick jokes) has put me in a rather foul mood….and that is not an easy task!

            I wish these people would realize they need to free their minds….and then they’re asses will follow.

        • Missionary Kid

          That got a full 5 second laugh out of me. Dinky Mindfuck as a guinea pig!

    • Johan

      When I read the guinea pig thing I thought for a moment he might be messing with them…..

    • DodoTheLaser

      The voice of reason. This and a lot other posts today in The Bunker are epic. Thank you all!

  • 10oriocookies

    They do these life history questionairres in Narconon also. I had to fill one out after i was posted as ED. Same questions on the sex stuff. Another method of control.

    The Garcias are doing a great thing by suing for fraud. It puts it out there again that the church is totally into ripping people off.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      I really do hope the Garcia’s lawsuit makes a dent.
      Something has got to finally give legally.

    • FistOfXenu

      How is that possible? We’ve been assured that NarCONon isn’t $cientology. Surely they wouldn’t a $cientology questionnaire in NarCONon would they? >:)
      /sarcasm=OFF

  • dwayners13

    Yet, even more proof that Hubbard was one sick freak.

    • Missionary Kid

      Hubbard, as sick freak? How dare you! Obviously, you’re a Suppressive Person, doomed to hell for the rest of your reincarnations. [Snark!]

      You’re being too kind.

    • sketto

      Maybe Hubbard was just working on his Masturbation Tech and needed lots of raw data.

      • dwayners13

        I think you’re on to something here. Perhaps he wasn’t a sick freak after all. He could just be a very dedicated researcher who was just misunderstood.

  • aquaclara

    The interplay of these two articles sheds tremendous light on the atrocities of this non-religion. I hope reporters are taking note. I hope, too, that anyone who is afraid of leaving the cult realizes that it never gets any better, or any easier.

    So many people have been, and continue to be hurt by this cult, and its utter lack of ethics, morality or basic decency.

    For every individual who had to fill out a similar report or go through intrusive and revealing interviews, I feel deeply for you but also know that you can move past it when you leave the cult. Most people on the outside are horrified to see that an organization would go this far in such a mean-spirited manner. There is no reason for a church, organization or any individual to obtain this information or ask these kinds of questions. It is, frankly, none of their business. And it is not helpful, caring or religious in any form. All of this done with the intent of holding each of their members tightly within their grasp through threats and intimidation.

    For the Garcias, whom I applaud for attempting to right wrongs, please do not lose faith under the barrage of papers and complaints Scientology will file. You donated generously and in good spirit. You asked for your money back, and they did not give it to you. It might have been easier for them to do so, but since they have chosen not to, have at it. They did lie, did misuse funds, and they did obfuscate twenty-two ways from Sunday. All with the intent to cheat and mislead others.

  • Ze Moo

    The Garcias and their lawyers have a daunting task ahead of them. Convincing a court to intervene in a ‘religious matter’ is not easy. Few people who sue the CO$ get very far, the Headley case pisses me off to no end. The judge will have to find that the process for arbitration is so one sided that the plaintiffs rights are being violated. If the judge is properly educated to the ways of CO$, that is what he/she will find. Additionally, the difference between monies on account for courses and direct contributions for the SP building and the like will test the courts patience and knowledge.

    There are broader implications to this case. The IRS settlement stipulated that refunds be done in a certain way. If the IRS can somehow be brought into the case, the stakes become very expensive for CO$ and the possibility of a pretrial settlement rises quickly. Why the IRS has not investigated all of the ‘alleged’ 93 settlement violations is beyond me. You would think someone would want the 10% whistle blower reward. The CO$ is very afraid of this case, the dwarfenflüffer is going to be very busy micro(mis)managing this one.

    The SO sex quiz is for the auditor and management, they want to find the easiest conquest for their tastes, in the current batch of new meat. The level of control the CO$ tries to exercise makes Hitler and Stalin and Mao and Jim Jones jealous. You can’t get the shower water hot enough to feel clean after reading this one.

    • Missionary Kid

      I enjoy the terms dwarfenfluffer and dwarfenfurer.
      The biggest problem that Co$ faces is that its two leaders were/are filled with hubris and apparently have little or no moderating influences.

      • Ze Moo

        It is never safe to point out the egomania of an egomaniac. They have no sense of humor about themselves.

        • Missionary Kid

          Especially one who has money and influence over fanatics.

          • Ze Moo

            I have never understood why so many social groups are built on the ‘us versus them’ philosophy. You can demonize any group by making up stuff, or just showing how they are different from your social group. CO$ used to be good at this, now their CCHR and other community ‘outreaches’ are considered a joke by the public. The CO$ reputation for bullshit and futznutty practices and comments have permanently branded them as nutjobs. About time too…..

            • Missionary Kid

              You know the revolution has started when stand-up comics tear into $cientology.

              There’s several videos of Cathy Griffin tearing into the whole movement. On one, she’s on Larry King while commenting on TCs marriage to Katy Holmes, another, obviously from a concert produced by her team that’s only about a minute long, and one, long rant, caught on what is obviously a hand-held camera or phone, with poor production values and sound, where Kathy just friggin NAILS Co$.

              Since a lot of Kathy’s audience is gay, you’d expect them to love it, and they do.

  • sugarplumfairy

    Slimiest. Church. Ever.

    • Sherbet

      May we amend that to: Slimiest. Fake Church. Ever.

      • sugarplumfairy

        Yes!

  • Anonymookme

    Ugh. Just ugh.

  • Boy if there was a way to get defrocked Catholic priests sec-checked this way I reckon we would experience a ripple in the space time continuum. A mini black-hole if they did Travolta.

    • Strangely prophetic Cruise story just out….(I think prophetic isn’t really the right word)

      How Tom Cruise was ‘infatuated’ with the Catholic Church and wanted to be a priest… before being ‘kicked out for stealing alcohol’
      Future star was devout Catholic as a teenager, attending seminary in Ohio
      But was asked to leave institution after ‘drinking priests’ liquor with friend’
      Now known as one of the world’s leading Scientologists

      Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2287832/How-Tom-Cruise-infatuated-Catholic-Church-wanted-priest–kicked-stealing-alcohol.html#

      I think we’ve all speculated on on what’s in his folders…. which makes me wonder… before he took power wouldn’t Miscavige have been subject to this kind of questioning? I’m guessing that there might still be someone out there who’s actually listened to his deepest dark sexual history. Now that WOULD be an exposé.

      • hogarthian

        Miscavige is switched on enough not to have admitted to anything other than the odd teenage wank. He has played that religion just deftly as he’s played TC…. and the rest.

        • given his close proximity to Hubbard when he was a teenager do you think that there was any chance Hubbard might have audited Miscavige…. and in him so the dark soul kinship that would make him the anointed one?

      • Ze Moo

        Comments at the Daily Mail story about Cruise are moderated. My comments have not shown up after 2 hours. The sotted wankers…..

        • me, too …. I can’t see what’s wrong with this:

          “Shame you didn’t take more from the original Daily News piece….. here’s one telling quote:

          “Lost and alone, Cruise gravitated toward a friendly priest……” and we all know how often that works out well nowadays!

          …. and confirmation of his low IQ might explain why he was so easily ensnared by scientology”

      • Mrs Libnish

        That’s your blog?? I love that blog…

    • dbloch7986

      Oh they already have all the dirt on JT… Didn’t you notice those masseuses that sued him as soon as he started to waver from the church? Then all of a sudden you see him and KP promoting Scientology again.

    • first still from Cruise’s sex tape surfaces….. not what was expected

  • Still_On_Your_Side

    I can’t read those confessions, I admit it, the reason? Well, besides the obvious, because the confessions were gotten under false pretenses, the product of cold blooded cruelty disguised as a church. When the IRS grants a tax exemption to Warren Jeffers and his polygamous, child-marrying cult, then the tax exemption to the Church of Scientology will make sense to me.

  • May_West

    Attention: Anyone who has ever committed a sexual act with a person who ever was or will be a scilon!!
    Your name and details of the event may be included in scientology’s records.
    (Pending public release at scientology’s whim)

    • sugarplumfairy

      oh, my!

      • BuryTheNuts2

        RuhRoh!

        • sugarplumfairy

          I’m hoping he made me a legend..

          • BuryTheNuts2

            I hope so too!
            I mean it might as well be good?…right?

            • FistOfXenu

              unfortunately, it’ll be all about how he didn’t know it was out-2D and as soon as he did he went to Ethics and they bent him over and beat him (metaphorically of course) until he was shouting “BUT I HATED EVERY MINUTE OF IT!” over and over and now he’s so grateful to Ron for the tech that made it possible for him to get ethics in on his “pink meat”.

    • Still_On_Your_Side

      If the church has no qualms about taping confessions of detailed sexual acts and thoughts, why not just put video cameras in members’ bedrooms?

    • hogarthian

      I wonder if there are any ex-porn star sci’s? Exhausted just thinking about it.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Why not, there are plenty of ex-strippers, etc.

        Let me correct that….there were plenty of Sci’s who worked as strippers while they were active Sci’s.

  • Thank you for your hard work T.O. Interesting and scary.

  • Sherbet

    Of course, the SO has put into place the perfect anti-masturbatory device: the uniform. The lumpy blue trousers aren’t exactly fantasy-inspiring.

  • scnethics

    As a member, you can set no boundaries. Meanwhile the church sets incredibly strict boundaries for itself.
    Ask the church for a statement showing where your money went and see how that goes. They’re going to want to know the last time you stuck a hamster up your butt, and they’ll want you to pay for them to pull it out of you (the confession, not the hamster. You’re still in charge of the hamster).

    • dbloch7986

      I have a feeling that this is going to scare celebrities far, far away…

      • FistOfXenu

        I have a feeling that they already know and that’s why more of them don’t walk out.

      • Still_On_Your_Side

        I so hope you are right!

  • dbloch7986

    Let me just say for starters, anyone who is claiming that the, “Church has changed.” Can eat it. This proves that there has been no change. So trying to pretend that your fundamentalist religion is becoming “more tolerant” is nothing more than an ironic joke. Perhaps they are getting better at feigning tolerance, but that’s all part of the bait and switch.

    L. Ron Hubbard believed that insight into someone’s most private behaviors, i.e. sexual behaviors, was necessary in order to ensure trust. This report right here brings to light the most disgusting and perhaps one of the most harmful aspects of Scientology which fuels subjugation. There is no privacy in Scientology. You are expected to keep your doors unlocked, your secrets on the table and your body naked in front of Scientologists. This is probably the “creepiness” that people sense when they talk about Scientologists.

    Scientologists are a bunch of nosy, gossip whores but not necessarily by any fault of their own. They just love to hear when someone else’s dirty secret is thrown on the table because it gives them the chance to subjugate that person even further.

    Thank you Tony, for exposing this. I wish you could find my life history and my PC folder and my O/W Write-ups. I wish I could show you everything that I told people during my time in Scientology. I’d gladly let you put my name on it, as embarrassed as I would be. There should be a law against interrogating minors about their sexual history.

    I hope the authorities will take an interest in these things. I don’t believe life histories necessarily fall into the “priest/penitent privilege” category. I am sure that some agency could get a warrant based off of the documents you have, related to the Church’s attempt to cover up crimes. That would either result in them handing over the documents to authorities (which would alienate Scientologists), or destroying them all (the best option).

    No one should have this kind of information on people, especially underage kids.

    Also how can you expect to put a gay teenager in a room full of naked men and ask him not to masturbate? Motherf*ckers.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      You rock per usual kiddo!

    • Yes, I was also doing some big face palms to that one commenter that claimed the Church “had changed” and was more tolerant lately. That commenter, I think, came from the Wasabi Indie break out (typo and it stays) group of merry morons. Scientology has no ability to become more tolerant on ANY subject. It is a fundamentalist cult, inside and outside the official structure.

    • Bob

      Derek, Yes. They are getting better at feigning tolerance. If it is expedient then then things can be overlooked. It all depends on how useful you are to COB and the church.
      I agree that there is NO privacy in the Corporate Church. Very good point. You are expected to tell all. I can testify to that. Hallelujah! If you don’t Give it all up now they know you have hidden overts.

      But I have observed recently a reluctance on the part of the Scions I know to talk about anything negative that might be considered gossip. It is deemed as Entheta and you don’t partake in that activity if you are “OT”. Just my observation in my current dealings with church members. It is also part of the program to not talk about those who have defected.

      • dbloch7986

        The part about not talking about defectors would be the classic totalitarian trick to make people disappear. Erasing them from videos, articles and conversation as if they had never existed in the first place. It helps assuage the feeling of “missing” someone.

        As far as the gossiping goes, when I was in the Sea Org and in the public parts of Scientology such gossip was rampant. I think maybe you just might not hear as much of it because you are becoming further removed from the inner circles.

    • Missionary Kid

      I second BTN. You ROCK.

    • Chocolate Velvet

      Derek, I am hugging you right now in my most fierce mother-lioness way.

      Your courage in being honest and not allowing others to squirm away from the simple facts of what you experienced as a young person in the present-day “church” — I can’t imagine more powerful ammo in this information war. And you are a warrior. No question.

      I see this about you, how you grow strong in your freedom, and I know that you have a good life ahead of you. One of your own making, filled with people you choose to have in your life because they are GOOD to you. This is the best any of us can hope for in life. And I am so glad to witness your story, and your ongoing triumph over the bullshit.

      Keep on doing what you do, please! 🙂

    • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

      Yes, we in the Church of Scientology are a bunch nosy gossip whores, but it is all for the greatest good.

      While gossip is a way of life in Scientology, we should at least be given credit for the fact that we formalized it into KR’s and “things that shouldn’t be” reports. Unlike other groups, we put gossip into writing because if it is not in writing it is not true. And so it follows that what is true for you must be in writing. Therefore, one must write up their O/W’s so that they are true for you and can be handled in session.

      If nothing else, the increased ability to feel shame and guilt for your crimes makes you a better Scientologist. We in RTC want to see remorse; we want to see O/W’s written up; we want every lurid detail of actual blood, sex, and crime in writing; we want people go in front of the group and apologize for what they have done.

      We assure you that all of this makes perfect sense once you become a Scientologist.

      • dbloch7986

        I think Scientology should sell the sexual exploits contained in their files in an X-rated magazine. They’d make millions.

        • hogarthian

          It would beat the shit out of ’50 Shades’, that’s for sure.

        • Dear Clamhouse,

          I never thought it would happen to my Thetan…

      • DodoTheLaser

        Besides, LRH said in one of his Congress lectures that privacy is way overrated and generally not good for one’s well-being and a society in overall. So, yeah. (Sarcasm.)

      • hogarthian

        You can still ‘write that down’ when you must have seen Mary’s post?

        I’m not sure which is stronger, my pity for you, or my dislike of you.

        • OTVIIIisGrr8! is a satirist …;) We love him/her but every new person thinks he/she is for real …not so. Breathe a sign of relief ( LOL )

          • hogarthian

            Thanks for the heads up…. I’m a nervous wreck!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Yeah, but we have been there….so you are cracking us all up.

      • hogarthian

        Oh shit! Oops…. I’m SO sorry. Christ… it’s a ****ing MINEFIELD out here! 😉

        • BuryTheNuts2

          LOL…ain’t it though.
          Consider it the bunkers “wall of fire”.

          It is much more difficult to navigate than OT III, as that just make people want to pee on themselves laughing or punch the C/S.

    • Heroder

      I suspect it could/ should be criminal to force a minor to describe sexual items behind locked doors with an authoritarian figure, one who has the authority to separate the minor from their parents if the minor doesn’t “share” enough details

  • John P.

    These documents are one case where the cult is not medieval in its thinking… but it is definitely Victorian. That’s not much, if any, of an improvement. In Victorian times, particularly in the more puritanical US, many religious fundamentalists saw sex as dirty, even sex between married people for the purpose of procreation. And they seized on masturbation as the most evil and pernicious form of “deviant” sexual behavior. There were pamphlets such as “Ononia: Or the Heinous Sin of Self-Pollution, and all its Frightful Consequences…” and Samuel Tissot’s “Treatise on the Diseases Produced by Onanism,” which attempted to turn masturbation from harmless recreation into pathological medical condition.

    Interestingly, physician John Harvey Kellogg, brother of the founder of the Kellogg’s cereal company, was a prominent anti-masturbation activist as well as being an all around quack health cure purveyor. Apparently, red meat caused masturbation, while diets rich in grains and nuts quelled the desire for “self pollution,” hence the founding of the cereal empire, which apparently no longer sells its products as anti-masturbation tonics.

    For an understanding of just how far people were willing to go to cure themselves (and others) of this “disease,” here is a web site with photos of anti-masturbation devices (which will make you cringe even more than the documents above): http://www.buzzfeed.com/copyranter/male-anti-masturbation-devices. And apparently, anti-wanking fanatics are still at it today. Here’s a Jehovah’s Witnesses anti-masturbation instructional video in sign language: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdrNEl1B6aM Hey, that’s great for equal rights! Why should deaf people be able to get away with wanking when the rest of us will molder in hell? Naturally, a bunch of folks on the net have “improved” this video a little bit: http://www.webpronews.com/the-internet-has-found-a-jehovahs-witnesses-anti-masturbation-sign-language-video-and-remixed-it-accordingly-2012-09. So apparently, in some quarters, the desire to punish people for basic ordinary sexual behavior still burns brightly, even in the 21st century.

    Humor aside, this is depressing and disgusting that the cult attempts to use this sort of thing to keep members in line, either turning them into repressed drones, or into blackmail victims when they decide they don’t want to take it anymore. But if you’re reading Tony’s blog, you probably already figured that out…

    • BuryTheNuts2

      “Apparently, red meat caused masturbation, while diets rich in grains and nuts quelled the desire for “self pollution,”

      Well as someone who is not too fond of red meat but eats sunflower seeds like they are a professional baseball player….I can unequivocally tell you that JHK definitely had it wrong!

      • dbloch7986

        Forgive me for further soiling an already sordid subject matter, but wouldn’t *pink* meat be the cause of said activity?

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Hehehe. You are a bad, bad boy!

      • FistOfXenu

        I bet this idea comes out of the same bag of goodies as the idea that eating meat makes people warlike and violent and eating vegetables and grains removes violent urges and makes people more gentle.

        • RMycroft

          Strange, since the first Biblical murderer was Cain, the homicidal vegetarian farmer.

          • FistOfXenu

            I never said it’s true, it goes along with “cornflakes stops masturbation”, but the idea’s been around a long time. I once met a Hare Krishna guy at an airport who tried to tell me that. And I’ve heard it from some new age types.

            Actually, about the cornflakes. That does work, but only if you don’t eat them. You need Elmer’s glue and then ….

            • hogarthian

              Y’see!!! even the Krishna’s want to tell you masturbation ain’t right! I’m suspicious of the lot of ’em.

            • FistOfXenu

              Not sure we want to go there. Reports of sex abuse in their schools back in the 80s was serios stuff.

            • hogarthian

              No, let’s not go there. We’ve just had months of Jimmy Savile here. And now the catholic cardinal of Scotland resigns and admits ‘doing things with men that I shouldn’t have done’. Enough already.

            • Sherbet

              Gosh, what WERE you doing, right there in the airport, when the Hare Krishna offered that advice??

            • FistOfXenu

              Trying to get him to stop trying to sell me books and sign me up for head shaving and song and dance routines in the street. So I said “you look hungry, want to finish this convo over a burger?” And that’s when he told me how I could overcome my aggressiveness and hostility and violence. Then he launched into his world peace speech. Wish I knew about Hitler back then. Bet it would’ve lit his ponytail up.

              Thanks for the info, MK! Afraid my knowledge of Hitler from school days is limited to an old WWII song about Hitler and his buddies and certain deficiencies of their anatomy.

            • DodoTheLaser

              Speaking of Hare Krishna folks, I love their food and friendliness!
              Good sense of humor too and the ladies there clearly allowed to flirt.
              I liked everything about them, except the endless mantra chanting marathons.

        • Missionary Kid

          Adolf Hitler was a strict vegetarian. I bring that up when virulent vegetarians try to tell me that it makes practitioners more peaceful to convince me of it’s advantages.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            I am filing that one for reference. Thanks.

            • Missionary Kid

              His dietary requirements were a PITA for his staff when he traveled.

          • FistOfXenu

            Nice! And we all know how gentle and unwarlike he was.

          • Allegedly, Hitler had quite a few GI issues and refused to eat with others around because he was not able to digest well and was quite flatulent. I’ve read where this was the root of his vegetable diet, not a love of animals.

            • Missionary Kid

              I never referenced love of animals. I was talking about the idea that eating that way makes a person peaceful. 🙂

              There are many vegetables that make a person flatulent, beans being the most notorious. I have no problem with beans, but my sister does.

              I’m wondering how much of that was psychosomatic, like LRH’s behavior.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I was actually taught in school in UTAH…about another of his predilictions…
              And it was…er…uh…well I cannot believe I learned that in school…….GACK.

            • stanrogers

              And, of course, substituting beans for meat does wonders for the ol’ flatulence…

          • Are_sics

            More peaceful. You have no idea how much less Hitler would have been were he a meat eater. (Insert emoticon if it clarifies).

            • Missionary Kid

              Yup. There’s no way to tell. I don’t think a vegetarian diet or meat eating diet has anything to do with how peaceful a person is. There’s no proof.

              On another tack, the supposed sugar high has been disproved.

    • Missionary Kid

      For a movie about Kellogg, see “The Road to Wellville.” While Kellogg was opposed to masturbation, he did, as I remember it, advocate manual stimulation of a female’s genetalia as a part of a doctor’s treatment.

      • FistOfXenu

        Did he also mention he liked to “play doctor” with his girlfriends?

        • Missionary Kid

          He was a doctor. 🙂 Since there were many women that were frustrated by Victorian attitudes towards sex, his “treatment” became quite popular. I think that was depicted in the movie.

          Other doctors did not approve.

          • DodoTheLaser

            Anyone watched this movie yet, while we on the subject?
            http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1435513/
            A snip from the review from the link above:

            “All in all “Hysteria” is a fun movie, with good actors,
            a good story and, if that’s important for you, a great happy end.” Lol

            • Missionary Kid

              I’m a fan of Maggie Gylenhall, so I’ll try to find it.

              Look up Vibrator (Sex Toy) in Wikipedia. You’ll find the following: “In 1902, the American company Hamilton Beach patented the first electric vibrator available for retail sale, making the vibrator the fifth domestic appliance to be electrified, after the sewing machine, fan, tea kettle, and toaster, and about a decade before the vacuum cleaner and electric iron.”

              The article goes on to say that the vibrator lost popularity when it became associated with pornography in the 1920s.

            • DodoTheLaser

              LOL! I’m a fan of Maggie Gylenhall too, btw.
              She’s so real, likable and a friend you want to have.

    • hogarthian

      Again! EXACTLY!…. we’re still at that sexual guilt thing, even in the C21st!!!

    • Unex Skcus

      Onanism? I had to go and word clear that one. By extension then, an onanist is what we’d call a ‘wanker’?

      • Missionary Kid

        Yup.

      • grundoon

        By extension.

    • grundoon

      Don’t forget the Mormons.

  • Ms. B. Haven

    I’m feeling a nasty bout of nausea subside so I can actually type something now. I was on staff at a scientology mission in the early 80’s as an ethics officer. Along comes the ‘coup of 82’ and the Finance Police swarmed in to take over the mission network. This was the beginning of the current reign of terror presided over by COB. One thing we had to do was write up all of our ‘overts & withholds’ (crimes). One fellow I was working with confessed to some acts of child molestation when he was a young man. He really wanted some help with his situation and felt tremendous guilt. There was no help offered. Ever. THE SOLE PURPOSE FO THESE O/W WRITE-UPS WAS TO BLACKMAIL AND THREATEN. Files and files of o/w write ups and knowledge reports were collected. I was a good little Stasi staff member and wrote up my share. At the time, my personal integrity level was so low that I went along with all of this even though I knew in my gut that it was all bullshit.

    Back then, things were bad enough. Now it seems they have gotten a lot worse. I was raised with a Christian background, and there were plenty of taboos around masturbation. I was a guilt ridden teen like many others. When I was ‘in’ the overt of masturbation was something that never came up. I really feel sorry for the poor souls in scientology these days. There will be no hope for them to develop a healthy ‘2D’. If you can’t do that how can you enjoy that part of life?

    This whole masturbation thing is a travesty on many levels. This is nothing more than people ‘dramatizing’ Hubbard’s affirmations. Truly sick, but an endless method of raking in some bucks. My hope is that everyone wakes up, enjoys their life and helps others do the same. Scientology will never help with that.

    • sugarplumfairy

      Sooo glad you’re out and talking about it..

  • scnethics

    These confessions aren’t extracted for blackmailing purposes primarily. The primary purpose is to violate the individual’s boundaries. Enforce on the person that they cannot set boundaries in their mind, and it will make it harder for the person to set boundaries when you want their time and money.

    • Missionary Kid

      Perfect. It’s just another way of breaking a person down so they can control them even more. One’s thoughts are not their own. The ethos is to get a person to open up to the point that every thought is subsequently examined as to how it conforms to the gospel of Ronny.

      The process of inculcating a person with $cientology bullshit is done by breaking a person down to their very core, not for the purpose of helping the person remold themselves to a better internal standard, but to the standards of the Co$. The goal is devotion to the supposed wisdom of LRH, but in reality it is to whoever is at the top.

      The process is very similar to military boot camp. The difference is, however, that after boot camp is over, and one’s military career starts, they interact with their families and general society.

      Co$, on the other hand, encourages a person to withdraw from all outside sources of emotional support. Isolated, the chump, er person joining Co$, adopts the ethics of Co$ and, with nothing to question them, gets sucked in further and further.

    • Ms. B. Haven

      This is an interesting observation and I would agree with you that on a deeper psychological level this has a lot of validity. However, for practical day to day operations the primary purpose for these confessions is purely blackmail and threats. There is zero therapeutic value.

      When I was on staff, the ED was a gay man. This was well known by most, but he was also supposedly ‘handled’ or ‘cured’. His ethics files were always handy to enforce the illusion that he was ‘cured’ of his perverse aberration. He was OT V or so when he was able to recoup his integrity and leave. Rest assured that those ethics files are still in place and ready to be used if he ever causes any problems even decades later. I hope he is well and doing well in an ‘un-cured’ state.

      • Still_On_Your_Side

        What exists today that did not exist 10 or 20 or 60 years ago? A president of the United States supporting gay marriage as a fundamental civil right. To be gay today is not the blackmail material it used to be, and the church will look ridiculous, and very anti-Hollywood, if it “outs” former members.

        The church has a right under the first amendment to practice its religious beliefs, and those beliefs may include hatred of gays, women, people of color and zenu. But, the right does not extend to child molestation, as the Catholic Church has learned. The biggest fear the Church of Scientology has with regard to its “confessions” is that it covered up child molestation cases. If the children who were molested study the Catholic Church cases, they will see that the cases were brought decades after the molestation occurred. If these children, now adults, brought lawsuits against the Church of Scientology, those cases would be the straw that breaks the camel’s back.

      • scnethics

        I didn’t mean to say it was therapeutic – there is negative therapeutic value! People should have boundaries!

        I’m glad that guy hit the road and hope he’s found love, because there ain’t much else worth having.

        Consider that if what’s in the folder isn’t juicy enough, OSA make things up to smear you with. So in a way, it doesn’t matter what’s in your folder (or what’s not in your folder).

        Most cults use confessionals, and many of them do it in a group setting (as is done in the Sea Org in some circumstances), and the purpose is to subjugate the person and have them prostrate themselves before the group – to increase submission.

        • Ms. B. Haven

          I believe that I might be the one who created the misunderstanding here. All I meant by saying that “there is zero therapeutic value” is that under the right circumstances, the act of confession can be very therapeutic. In scientology this is just not possible and in fact can, and usually is, very detrimental.

          I was involved in a weekend seminar with a ‘human potential movement’ group many years after my exit from scientology. There was a group confessional exercise we were ‘required’ to participate in designed to explore the idea of self-forgivness. I refused. Mainly because I just didn’t want to, not because there was a heinous or disgusting crime I was scared to reveal in front of others. Of course I became the focus of the group for refusing to participate. There was an effort by the facilitator to extract a confession to no avail. Afterwards I had several people approach me and tell me that they had a lot of respect for my decision not to participate. I felt much more a part of the group for standing my ground and maintaining my personal integrity. Can you imagine this happening in scientology? If I was public I would have been ‘regged’ for more money to pay for the opportunity to be grilled whilst holding the cans or if I were staff I would still be scrubbing the fucking floors in the loo for refusing to cooperate. Nice group…

    • hogarthian

      Exactly. You are no longer your own person. We know who you are in the absolute sense. You are now ours. An insightful observation.

    • dbloch7986

      It is abuse of trust and abuse of boundaries and is why Scientology victims display proclivities and habits and character traits that are similar to abuse victims.

  • Bob

    Interesting blog. From personal experience and observation of others, the church is prudish in its attitude. One is made guilty for masturbating or any deviation in the sex act. I used to get hung up with that if I knew I was getting auditing, as it would end up taking up time in session and at more than $300 to $500 an hour that can get costly. I would stop any sexual activity several weeks in advance of the auditing. That seemed to work.
    I could understand wanting to know if someone was doing something illegal but other than that it is irrelevant and unnecessary other than it can run up extra hours of auditing to handle things. Or from Hubbards writings it is considered that people will go crazy if masturbating is gone unchecked. Also homosexual thoughts or acts are verboten. At least they used to be.
    In the sixties anything we did was OK as long as it didn’t hurt anyone and it was consentual. I think Tony picked this subject to blog because he never got over the sixties and now he feels compelled to hold up the church attempts to make good ethical puritans out of Us all So that he doesn’t have to feel guilty. Shame on you Tony for trying to liberate our libidos. I kind of liked being more strict than the orthodox churchs. At least I did not have the extra cost of x -rated websites or magazines every month. 🙂

    • dbloch7986

      I think this would be easier to look at in a light-hearted way if children were not being put through this shameful, guilt inducing and subjugating process, Bob. I am not sure if you caught this story a while back, but some asshole kid decided he would film his college roommate having gay sex and show some classmates.

      That kid killed himself.

      Children have fragile minds and lines of questioning like this prey on that weakness.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        That was a horrible and tragic story.

      • Bob

        Yes, I caught it and think it was despicable. You bring up a very good point. I do think that it is also how the parents deal with the subject. Not all Scientology parents are slavish to the church’s general attitude. But far to many are. It creates an atmosphere for the teenager or young adult where it is easy for him or her to look at the Seamorgue and find it attractive because it will protect him from all his unpure thoughts.

    • sugarplumfairy

      I think you still like being a scientologist.. But then, I’m a judgmental bee-otch..

      • Bob

        You nailed me. I like being a mole-ologist. I admit. And I would say are an astute and observant b–tch. 🙂

        • sugarplumfairy

          No offense, Bob.. My intention was to generate dialog.. Yeah, that’s the ticket.. to generate dialog..

          • Bob

            No offense taken. But lately I seem to be rubbing some commenters the wrong way. I assumed that by now people would get my humor and know that I support Tony and the active commenters; but apparently not. You cannot please everyone. And by definition for some I now fall into the troll category. Oh well. Asi es la vida.

            • hogarthian

              I have noticed that some of your comments read like they’re being delivered from the moral high ground. But you’ll be ok, hopefully.

            • Bob

              Yes I guess they may look that way but I don’t feel that way at all. I am still sorting things out and forming my own method of looking at things.

        • grundoon

          Bob, you might be interested in the story of Patty Pieniadz, who had one of the longest and most successful runs as a mole-ontologist. OSA busted a gut trying to out her. She posts here occasionally.

          • Bob

            Yes I would. And I applaud her. Thanks Grundoon.

    • Bob, the wanking troll

      • Bob

        MD, I looked up troll again. And to some degree you are right. I don’t think when I started posting that was the case. But some how I evolved into that for some commenters. Not sure which meaning you intended for wanking but either one or both will do.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          I didn’t think when you started posting that was the case, either, Bob.
          I am about as open minded as they come…(even If I don’t always sound like it).
          I am just disappointed and hope someday you truly can see past Hubbard’s bullshit.
          Good luck to you man!
          OUT.

          • Sherbet

            Bury, help me on this. Did I miss the memo? Are squirrels not welcome here? If Bob leaves, he’ll never learn that lrh is the one who spawned dm and the phoniness and abuses. I think dialog is terrific, and I don’t like excluding anyone. Just call me Henry Kissinger.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I am not excluding Bob at all and I hope he doesn’t leave. I appreciate his comment back to me.
              I think this last weeks crap…which has been royally thick is just getting to me.
              But I just made a dentist appointment so now being here again is less painful to think about (I hate the dentist!).
              Perspective…don’t cha know.

            • Sherbet

              No, no, I was asking you, because you’re often the voice of reason. All of a sudden there was a big pile of nasty and Bob was stuck at the bottom of it. I honestly didn’t know if I had missed some revelation in a prior blog, that Bob is the second coming of Louanne or something. Never mind! (As visions of nitrous oxide dance in your head.)

            • BuryTheNuts2

              OK, miss reason is back.

              Just remember what happened when LRH had Nitrous Oxide.
              With my imagination I could be so damn dangerous you have no idea!!!

              But my smile will be absolutely devastating. (But not in a LRH kinda way)

            • Sherbet

              Uh-oh, Bunkees: One more dental appointment, and Bury will be starting her own religion.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I am almost finished with “Book One” already!
              It is the Second Church of Suzannaology. (The Baptists got all the “Firsts”)

              Hold the beans and rice….just give me the Taco’s
              No polyester…fine pima cotton and chinos.
              No Teratogenic Terror Davey…..(That one was for you, Bob).

              But it is NOT going to be free ya know.
              Wine donations accepted (actually Insisted upon…Moscato, Riesling or a fine Oregon Pinot Noir)

              Now pick up the cans…have you eaten? did you get enough sleep? fine, thank you…….”You cannot have a Taco until you tell me your crimes”

            • hogarthian

              what’s ‘suzannaology’?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              LOL….My real name is Suzanna.
              (no worries…it is not a secret)

            • hogarthian

              Well blow me! (and you can confess it to who you like)… My name’s Suzanne, and it’s not a secret now either. I knew I liked ya’ 😉

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Holy crap…that is at least four of us bunkerites now that have some variation of that name!
              A gift for you from a guy who got out…Leonard Cohen.

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otJY2HvW3Bw

            • hogarthian

              awwwwww, shucks, thank you! My mammy named me after that song, and I worked on the Greek Island that he wrote it on (Hydra) for a couple of years. warm fuzzies!

            • Unex Skcus

              Cool, been a fan of LC for some 45 years… was shocked to discover he’d once dabbled in Scientology though.

            • Sherbet

              Never mind all that; what’s your stand on masturbation?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I am all for it.
              In fact….It is how you get to my higher levels!

            • hogarthian

              LOOOOOOL!

            • FistOfXenu

              STAND on it? I don’t think I’ve ever heard of it being done like that.

            • FistOfXenu

              Could I just say, some of including me have said how we’d like to see people more honest not just about $cientarCONon but about their own path out and about their own guilt while in. It’s obvious Bob isn’t “out” but IMHO he sounds like he thinking and he’s not standing still. And he hasn’t pretended his own hands are clean or like $cientarCONon is innocent. Admitting that he’s been a “good SCN robot for many years” and admitting that he was following the priority to protect the cult instead of doing what’s right is a good start. I can think of someone we consider “out” that still shies away from those admissions.

              When I read Bob’s comments I think I see the person inside the Borg, emerging right in front of us. Maybe the more wary here can tell me what we’re waiting for but I’m going to stick out a cautiously optimistic hand and say “welcome Bob”.

            • Sherbet

              Exactly, Fist, well said. Wise words for this blog.

            • hogarthian

              Fist… In my opinion, you’re right to do that. That is the only right thing to do. How are sci’s supposed to ‘get out’ if they’re not allowed to discuss it with impunity?

            • sugarplumfairy

              Perfectly said.. MidwestMom would be very proud of you..

          • Bob

            Bury, I sometimes look like I am defending Hubbard but I have gone through a huge turn around in my view of him and his doctrines. So don’t be disappointed. I see past a great deal of Hubbards BS. I may not be where you are at but I have gone through quite a reality adjustment in the past year. And I appreciate your comments.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Ok, Bob, I am going to ask you a direct question and I want a direct answer and honest answer (Even if the answer is…fuck off it is none of your business).

              Are you still an active/practicing member in the Church?
              The reason I am asking this is because it makes a difference (at least to me personally) to know exactly where you are coming from..because you have been confusing as all hell.
              It helps me form my responses to you based on where I interpret you to be in your journey.
              That is the only reason I ask.

            • Bob

              I am still in. Not what I call practicing. That is why I said mole-ologist. But I look like a good little Scion to the outside world and inside world. I am very vague because I have family in and this is not the right time for me to go public. Suffice to say (a DM phrase) I do more good in than out. And that means bad for Scientology. Hope that answers the question.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Thank you Bob. I appreciate the honesty. This makes more sense as I originally thought you were out….albeit just barely.
              Alright..you have a friend here.
              But that doesn’t mean some the stuff you may say may not piss me the hell off.
              You keep doing good while you are in and until you can all get out.
              I know we (I) can come off really harsh, but I think you certainly know why.
              So from me….you and I have truce.

              Oh and you are right, it is not a very safe place for you here. So I commend you for the fact that you post here at all.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Yah, Bury.. I’m glad he’s here too.. But if he tries to get you on an e-meter, imma smack him..

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I don’t use the e-meter remember….I just ask myself silly questions until I get giddy.

            • Bob

              Dear BTN, sorry it took so long to get back to you. Had doctor appt etc.
              I never felt you were harsh or in any way other than understanding and willing to give me space as a commenter. I am hamstrung by the fact that I cannot reveal who I am or my position within. It is dicey just to state my position as I am sure there are numerous OSABots and scilions always on the look out for mole-ntologists. There are not many of us that I know of, and the others have no interest in speaking out in any way, shape or form. And sometimes my comments are not well received but I am talking from a point of view of being in it everyday both the good and the bad. And it’s not all bad. Most all the myths and facades have been stripped out of me regarding Hubbard but I am not all negative regarding him because I saw good things he did. How I feel about the current church and the efficacy of Scientology are very similar to a lot of the commenters. I like giving my 2 cents though because I am going to have a different perspective from almost anyone else. I don’t try to be officious like a commenter i know who is no longer on board with us. he has the initials SP. (no pun intended)
              I say what I see and I consider it valuable to the over all blog. For some reason the past week I have been bringing out the ire in certain commenters. And I guess there are a few who don’t like me or my style. Anyway I appreciate your candor and willingness to understand a person who wants to see changes and see many of his friends saved from what is going on with this so called church.

            • hogarthian

              If I was just a tad more cynical than I am….. I’d say the above sounds like a classic ‘sympathy close’. But I’m not, so I won’t. Interesting that you say “no longer on board with us”?

              I’d advise you to have the courage of your convictions (if that’s what they are) and jump. It’s the right thing to do. Good luck.

            • Bob

              Hogarthian, thanks but for numerous reasons I am far useful inside. I have already seen that although I cannot be specific. I am make go headway with my program and hopefully some day it can all be out in the open.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I understand Bob. And I also understand you are in an odd and precarious position.
              Just stay stealth and hang on with us. I am with you buddy.
              Just be very, very careful.
              And don’t make me regret my loyalty….I will have faith that you won’t.

            • Bob

              Thanks. I am very careful. I appreciate the understanding. After what I have experienced I could not be persuaded to be brought back into the fold. A Sheeple NO MORE! But to them(Clamatologists) I truly am a wolf in sheeps clothing. My intention is to see the small, ruthless sheperd go down! LOL

            • grundoon

              Thanks for being here and communicating!

            • sugarplumfairy

              Glad you’re here.. Don’t let our occasional name-calling chase you away..

            • Bob

              PS, this is not a very safe place to be and I constantly have to bite my tongue.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Why bite your tongue? Nobody else here does.. just prep for what you get back..

            • Bob

              Thanks only when it comes to info that could reveal who I am.

            • FistOfXenu

              Glad to have you here but be careful and don’t jeopardize your situation. Real $cientarCONon trolls come here from time to time and I’d hate to see you or your family become targets.

            • SS

              I think you deserve kudos for even being here while a member in good standing and I’m happy for you that you’ve begun to see the light in the past year.

            • Bob

              Thanks I have to say it is very weird but my intention is to be effective in stopping the destructive and abusive actions of the church.

            • EnthralledObserver

              I personally think it is a good idea for both yourself and other lurkers plus commenters here, ex-es and never ins to take each idea and scrap it out to uncover the truth and explore each other’s opinions. It will help to understand just where all this nonsense came from and how it got where it got, and finally how to strip it away and destroy it for good.

            • Bob

              That is a good suggestion. And to some degree that has helped me sort things out.

            • Captain Howdy

              Some of the stuff you’ve written has irked me, but generally speaking I feel you’ve been straight forward and honest.

            • Bob

              Thanks CH. I know I have made comments that sound like scion rhetoric or defensive to the church. But being in i am now able to see who the good people who really care are and who the robots are. I have empathy for the good people who try to do the right thing. And it pisses me off that they are used and abused.

            • Captain Howdy

              Who the fuck marked me down ? I’ll hunt you down and kill you..j/k..sort of.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              This just made me bust up!

            • DodoTheLaser

              Same here, I laughed for like 3 minutes straight! Still am!

              Now we know what to do if we need a good laugh…
              Hey, Captain, it wasn’t me, btw. lol

            • FistOfXenu

              Wish I could say it was me just to see you try and find me. 😛

      • Ze Moo

        Beware the trolls. The hobbits aren’t so bad, but the trolls are a pain.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Dear Bob: f*ck the hell off

      Cover up of pedophile child sexual abuse by Scientology

      http://members.chello.nl/mgormez/childabuse/childmolester.html

      • Bob

        Yes I actually know one of the people mentioned in that link. And it was a total debauchery. Where in my link did I condone that? Or is it my seemingly frivolous attitude towards today’s blog?
        I despise what the church does regarding this area and I have my share of personal horror stories as well. When you are a Scientologist you do what is expedient for the church whether it is illegal, immoral or both. The church is to be protected at all costs.

        • Urgh. It was not *debauchery*. It was *rape*.

        • hogarthian

          I agree with Lliira… ‘debauchery’ is so not the right word here. Similar to those strange people who use the phrase ‘child pornography’ when it’s very from that. It’s abuse, plain and simple.

          • Bob

            Yes sometimes I struggle for the right word.

        • Missionary Kid

          The scandals in the Catholic church never would have grown to the size they are if the attitude of the bishops wasn’t that “The church is to be protected at all costs.”

          In my mind, it is a dangerous attitude.

    • Still_On_Your_Side

      Me thinks you doth protest too much. If you liked being “more strict than orthodox churches” and if you thought it was irrelevant and unnecessary (except to route out “illegal” acts) then why did you “stop any sexual activity several weeks in advance of auditing”? Why not just tell the auditor “my sex life is irrelevant”? Were you doing something illegal that you didn’t want them to find out about?

      If the church has to audit to determine if “someone is doing something illegal” then when they did find illegal activity, like child abuse, why did they not report it to law enforcement?
      .

      • Bob

        Unfortunately my dry humor comes across as criticism. And I accepted the way things were and was a good Scn robot for many years. To answer you question of why I did no speak up. And I answered you question about why the church does not speak. The senior rule is “protect the church at all costs”.

        • “the thing is ‘dry humour’ has to be recognised as such…. if it’s not recognised then it can’t really be called humour”

          Nietzsche

          • Bob

            Very good point and I have messed up on this before. I will cease and desist. Written humor has to be more obvious since you can’t see the delivery. Thanks for pointing that out.

          • dbloch7986

            I use dry humor all the time. Dry humor is very funny to someone who has a compatible sense of humor. I picked up on Bob’s humor in the last paragraph.

            He was using irony as a literary tool. Bob I think we’re all just growing accustomed to your commenting style. My humor has been mistaken before, I usually neglect to correct it because eventually someone comes along and acknowledges it. I recommend when using irony, that you make it as extreme as possible so that it’s easier to infer. That’s what I find works best for me.

            • FistOfXenu

              Dry humor, that’s like the “dry sex” in one of the answers up there, right?

        • Still_On_Your_Side

          Good answer, I am glad you are out of the church.

        • hogarthian

          How does your dry humour help you out when you read those pitiful confessions above… and then remember you’re still in?

  • When I was in, even if you were not SO, if you were an exec, you had to do this too. I had to do one when I was posted as PES and then another one when I was posted as ED.

  • BosonStark

    Tommy Davis was so offended when ABC’s Martin Bashir asked him about Xenu, he replied:

    “I am not going to discuss the disgusting perversions of Scientology beliefs that can be found now commonly on the Internet and be put in the position of talking about things that are so fundamentally offensive to Scientologists.”

    If Tommy were so offended by talk about the nutty Xenu script all clams read at OTIII, does that mean this article would constitute perversions of perversions?

    I would have asked Tommy what’s so disgusting and perverted about the same BS in Hubbard’s own handwriting that clams read during OTIII? That’s what he’s really offended by — the truth — and it’s supposed to be a secret you pay hundreds of thousands for.

    Likewise, this kind of stuff isn’t something you’re going to get an inkling of when you walk into an Org, and we know how open they are.

  • Johan

    Wow. Just wow. No wonder most exes just want to crawl under a rock when they get out. Guilt shame humiliation followed up by some more guilt shame and humiliation. Scientology – there are no words to describe how disgusting you are.

    • Still_On_Your_Side

      Yes. What is it about cults and sex? Wikipedia reports this about Lyndon LaRouche “‘LaRouche would question spouses about their partner’s sexual habits, the Times said, and in one case reportedly ordered a member to stop having sex with his wife because it was making him ‘politically impotent.'” Control, absolute control over all aspects of a person’s life. Shaming is one of the most powerful ways to control a person, it destroys a person’s sense of self. If a person refuses to be shamed, they are not as susceptible to being controlled.

      • hogarthian

        Yup, ask a catholic!

        • sugarplumfairy

          I’m catholic and it’s Apples and oranges, hogwart.. Now, don’t make me get the blessed cat o’ nine tails..

          • Captain Howdy

            Holy Opus Dei Batgirl !

            • sugarplumfairy

              Sorry.. DaVinci Code scarred me for life..

      • dbloch7986

        Anything that is considered private and embarrassing to someone can be used to control them through shame.

  • 10oriocookies

    Scientology men are all business in the bedroom. In and out. Back to course. Scientology women, if you move, you go to ethics. No breathing hard, hip movements, knees can NEVER touch the bed.

    I had the most beautiful italian auditor one time, Is it bad that i liked when she flew my ruds? (Just a joke, never happened)

    Isnt it somewhere in science of survival that the more the second dynamic is regulated, the more perverse it becomes?

    • No breathing hard, hip movements

      Wait, seriously? How is that even possible?

      • BuryTheNuts2

        And even if it is possible………..at that point, why bother.

        • FistOfXenu

          ^^^ This. Even though 10or was joking that’s the response.
          Thanks BTN, I go away for the day with a picture of a couple looking lovingly at each other, one says “you want to?” and the other says “YOU want to?” and after a moment’s pause they both say “nah why bother?” and walk away.

    • Are_sics

      Hmmm. So those scilon ex-wives who claimed knowledge of every inch of their husband’s bodies as evidence than Miscavige never beat anyone may have been been speaking a script? Who knew? The robotic, self-righteous indignation was so convincing.

      • 10oriocookies

        I was just joking about the breathing and knees. Sorry, my humor doesnt e-translate sometimes.

        • Are_sics

          And it sounded so realistic… (I was just joking about the “convincing”, too, btw, lest that was unclear).

  • turkeybrain

    Just a tad hypocritical with all this “holier than thou” attitude towards “perversions.” Which is normal sex for pretty much everyone nowadays, Dave, which you’d cognite on if you took your head out of your ass for like 30 seconds.

    And oh … what’s with the Hubtard’s “OTO levels” in the Crowley Church of sexual magick? (The predecessors of your “OT Levels.”) OTO 11 is ANAL SEX, yeah, shove it baby! What’s good enough for the Hubtard is good enough for the rest of us Satans – I mean Thetans.

    • sugarplumfairy

      From what I’ve read, most co$-ers are content to confess to a “finger up the butt..” are you telling us COB is an entire “head up the butt” guy? Wow.. Dox, please..

      • sugarplumfairy

        And wow.. I immediately regret tht comment..

      • FistOfXenu

        I think COB is the hamster.

    • sharon brown

      They’ll Never know the true “origins” of their religion, wouldn’t want to expose themselves to All that “entheta” ! But Davey, it’d be Good for the churches purses, think of All those additional courses Everyone would have to get once the Ethics officers find out !

  • SandiCorrena

    I think we all know what Davey is really doing with these deets; in addition to being prepared to threaten and blackmail his parishoners, he’s recycling them so he can maintain his own state of PBJ-ingness. Prison is too good for him; the sick %$%$!

    • SP ‘Onage

      He’s jelly. DM micro manages masturbators because he’s a two pump chump.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        You are forgiven for any future grammar or spelling mistakes because of this post….like, forever.

        • SP ‘Onage

          Ahhh, thanks…Ya made my day! 🙂

  • Missionary Kid

    Has anyone made up shit just to shock or get an audience on those forms or during auditing?

    I believe a metal wrist strap on each arm under one’s clothes connected with a wire with a switch to interrupt the current flow could spoof the e-meter, since all it really does is measure resistance. Anybody got an e-meter around to test my theory?

    If it’s valid, I’d love to see a person operating the e-meter get fucked with.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      We know the e-meter can be fooled.
      Two words.
      Christopher Reeves.

      • Missionary Kid

        Thanks for the reference. He did it by making up a story. I’d like to see someone come in with a gadget and use it to screw with the operator so they learn not to trust it, or they start to doubt all the BS they’ve got between their ears.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Vance Woodward (I think) said you could fuck with it by the pressure on the cans as well. That would make sense to me.
          I would love to give it a go.
          I think I could…with some effort….figure out how to make that needle float.

          • Missionary Kid

            Of course! You change the contact area, hence the conductivity, which affects the meter.

            • FistOfXenu

              It works BUT your best bet is a little practice before you do it. For 1 thing you have to find a technique that doesn’t show. How much your hand moves and what part of it you move is important so you don’t get seen doing it. Another thing is you want the changes to fuck with the auditor but you don’t want them too weird or it gets like the kid that tries to play hooky by faking a fever but puts it on the lightbulb and ends up with a fever of 120F! If you don’t control how extreme you move the needle the auditor starts trying to fix it by changing the cans or using gel to make the contact more consistent. As far as floating the needle you’re trying to do 2 things, neutralize any reaction the needle is having to you that won’t contribute to floating. That’s usually a small problem unless you’re reacting hard to your situation. The big thing is create the regular floating motion you need.

              That probably isn’t clear but if you get a meter and try it you’ll see what I mean. The big thing is to control what’s going on in your head.

            • Missionary Kid

              “The big thing is to control what’s going on in your head.” That’s exactly what they’re trying to do to you.

            • FistOfXenu

              Yep, and as soon as you buy into “they can read your mind with the e-meter” they got you. Control what you’re thinking when you’re on the meter and with practice you can pwn the needle.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Damn Fist…you been gone so long I just realized how little I know about you!

      • hogarthian

        that’s what I love about this site…. and google. I now know exactly what you’re talking about. Learning curve (hate that expression)….. Well done Superman.

  • hogarthian

    I don’t want to be ostracised here, so I’m gonna have to partake of a little humble pie. I’ve lost track of the amount of people I’ve upset, so I’ll have to do it wholesale.

    In my disgust at the lengths these people go to to destroy their ‘members’ (there’s a joke in there somewhere), I forgot that some would be offended by my ridicule of anything that has the whiff of confession/guilt about it.

    What can I say? I have committed myself to telling the (my) world about scientology and I suppose haven’t yet learned to express myself sensitively (I don’t suppose I ever will). So, I apologise profusely to everyone I’ve upset, I really do. If I’m not careful I’ll end up as derided as ‘Bob’ 😉

    I’m a baby activist, I’ll learn to temper my outbursts, but I’m still interested in helping.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Consider yourself absolved (at least on my account).
      Have a second glass of wine!

      • hogarthian

        Communing with the grape? It’s the blood of christ, dontcha know!

        • sugarplumfairy

          Not unless it’s consecrated..

    • FistOfXenu

      No sweat hogarthian. Some of this crap pushes us off the edge no matter how long we’ve been here. For myself I don’t think I’ve really pissed anybody off here yet but my time will come and I probably annoy a few people sometimes when $cientarCONon pisses me off and I kick off on something. The good thing is you realize the problem and you’re doing what’ll fix it. And we’re not going to send you to Ethics and make you do conditions or anything.

      And guess what? You’ve just “made your confession”! Ironic isn’t it? 😀

      • hogarthian

        😉

        • We’re not auditing you!

          • hogarthian

            No shit! I feel like a small child… jumping up and down shouting “I’m good, I’m good, please believe me!” …. and then being naughty, as small children inevitably are, sometimes 😉

    • hey …trust me when i tell you that i can relate. So much so …someone from the old Village Voice blog called me a liberal cock sucker once ( might have been someone else ..i insult people pretty often i guess ) Could not figure out if that meant that i suck cock liberally or that i only suck liberal cock ( my husband would be upset to find that out …he is a republican …)

      • hogarthian

        Fabulous!! Much lollage!!

      • DodoTheLaser

        I just feel sorry for all the OSA/RTC personnel reading here today,
        while feeling righteous, conflicted and horny – all at the same time. 🙂

  • mook

    makes you wonder if current culties Cruise, Travolta, Jenna E., K. Preston, Kirstie, etc. and former culties like LMP went through this crap (which they most likely have)

    • DodoTheLaser

      Oh yes, they did. That’s one of the reason’s all we hear from them are the sound of crickets in the night.
      Minus LMP, I suppose.

    • Cruise was intensely sec-checked by Marty Rathbun.

      • FistOfXenu

        Am I the only person that thinks “sec-checked” sounds a little too much like “sex-checked”?

  • Charlotte Sometimes

    Confessions like these have undoubtedly been used by the CoS as a tool to settle court cases (cases that the CoS would otherwise lose).

  • I want to see little Davey’s writeup. Probably goes something like this:

    “I stuck my penis in Jelly last week while thinking of TC…”

  • sketto

    What a church! Instead of saying, “Don’t masturbate” (which itself is stupid) it says, “Tell us all the gory details.” Fucking creepy.

    • grundoon

      If you don’t masturbate, you’ll have to lie and say you did, to satisfy the sec checker.

  • SP ‘Onage

    I am glad you posted these internal documents, Tony. Let this be a lesson to scientologist’s that nothing is confidential in the world of scientology.

    Anybody at any time can and will read their transgressions because they are documented and video recorded. Imagine the gossip and back stabbing people do to each other once these are spread around.

    Good example, is when the Italian police who raided a Scientology chapter said they found what appeared to be extensive files on law-enforcement officials and former members.

    The documents were in a locked room of the Scientology chapter in Turin and were said to contain information on the subjects health, politics and sexual habits.

    I think Luis Garcia’s lawyer should look into that too, the violation of scientology’s handling of personal information.

  • Chocolate Velvet

    Thank you Tony, for presenting this material.  Thank you, also, for handling the matter with such sensitivity, giving a heads up on FB and carefully introducing this post.  This is where the rape of the spirit perpetrated by cults comes closest to being literal.  Ugly business, sustained by the worst and weakest aspects of our humanity.  

    SHAME.  That is the point, and the common factor in sick-minded religion and cults.  Shame is such a powerful driver in human behavior, and one of the hardest feelings for most people to tolerate without some kind of deflection or self-destructive compensation.  That means that by definition, ALL human beings have a built-in unconscious “button”.  A universal vulnerability that can be exploited to drive the behavior of others.  We human beings are such a complex web of gross animal functions, basic instincts, ego drives, and higher consciousness and self-consciousness.  Resolving the tension in that web is impossible, but we long for it anyway.  Cults and shame-based religions exploit that longing.  

    This is the true “ruin” that Scientology seeks to exploit:
    What is your deepest shame?  And what do you believe to be the thing that would wash that away, and make you ok as a human being?
    Oh yes, we can help you get that…

  • Chocolate Velvet

    As for the comparison with catholic confession:

    There are some parallels.  The basic idea that there is “bad” in you that must be exposed for your own good. That your eternity is contingent on your willingness to expose your shame to the external authority of your church, the gatekeeper to eternal well-being.  In past times, and even now, in very small parishes, I’m sure a priest abusing their access to dirty secrets has been a common occurrence — human nature being what it is.  “Catholic Guilt” is real, and incredibly toxic.  The end result of shame-based “salvation”.

    However, there are some basic and crucial differences that make it ludicrous to draw a parallel with scientology ethics and sec-checks.  First of all, confession does not cost money.  Simple.  Second, catholic confession is not compulsory.  It may be pushed on you as an essential element of salvation, but since the Inquisition ended, you will not be physically held captive in a room, hooked up to a machine, and hounded into admitting your “crimes”.  The accounts of ex-scis are rife with this exact sort of thing.  Staff find themselves physically forced or overtly deceived into a sec-check session which they are not allowed to leave.

    Third, catholic confession is not recorded, as a practice.  Not in writing, on audio, or video.  No one has come forward with stories of how they were tasked with fitting confessionals with A/V gear.  Scientology has many such stories attached to it.  It is an accepted practice for the auditor/interrogator to take extensive and detailed notes. And if you sit down and pick up the cans under the assumption you are “in session” and protected by confidentiality, you might hear those dreaded words: “I am not auditing you”. Meaning: this is not confidential, all bets are off, and if you try to leave I am charged to keep you here until you confess, confess, CONFESS!

    I imagine that most priests with large congregations tune out most of what they hear in confession.  It gets old hearing the same “deep dark secrets” over and over.  Phone in some sort of penance and a blessing, and send em on their way.  What interest would they have in blackmail, unless they have their own crimes to cover up?  The modern day CC has done far more harm by keeping ugly secrets than by exposing them.

    I think it is important to make a distinction between cults like scientology, and bad religion as it is inflicted by the CC and a zillion other Christian sects.  And Muslim, and Buddhist, and whatnot.  It is a different kind of abuse, a different set of problems created for society, and and different approach to putting a stop to it. It is important to avoid generalizing about “religion” as if that is one monolithic force in human nature, human culture, and human history.

    The facts do not support such a radical rejection of the human religious impulse as a whole.  It is important, IMO, to allow a place for what William James called “healthy-minded religion” and the benefits it confers on individuals, families, and society at large.  It is real, and more importantly, it is inescapable.  So, we are better off doing the work to sort it out into a conscious and healthy aspect of our humanity.

    If we don’t, it remains a vulnerability to be exploited by the power hungry and evil among us.

    • Sherbet

      Wonderfully said, Velvet!

      • BuryTheNuts2

        plus 1

    • Fourth difference – A Catholic priest hearing a person’s confession is forbidden by Canon Law from sharing that Confession with anyone. “A confessor who directly violates the sacramental seal incurs a latae sententiae excommunication reserved to the Apostolic See; one who does so only indirectly is to be punished according to the gravity of the delict.” In other words, automatic excommunication that can only be lifted by the Pope. A number of saints were martyred for their refusal to break the seal of the confessional.

      • aquaclara

        Fifth difference – In a Catholic confession, you decide how much to reveal or not. No one asks you for details.
        Sixth difference – The whole purpose of confession is to give you a fresh start. Unlike in a certain cult, it is not intended to embarass someone, it will not be used against them as evidence or in an intimidating manner, nor will it be discussed with others.

        • Chocolate Velvet

          Excellent point. Ideally, confession is about letting go of guilt and shame, via the priest acting as an emissary of Christ’s redemption. It is about resolution, not surrender. When the priest says, “go, and sin no more”, you are given a fresh start. Ideally.

          Can you imagine if the CC required you to be publicly shamed, do abject penance, and then get a form signed by fellow members to affirm you have repented? It would be ludicrous.

          That’s more like the Puritans of the early colonial days
          in the US. A dirty rag or boiler suit, or an ethics “declare”, is a “scarlet letter” of sorts.

      • Chocolate Velvet

        Excellent point, Gerard. The policy set forth by LRH is the opposite. The “auditor’s code” notwithstanding. It is so easily set aside with a few simple words: I am not auditing you. Priests can’t do that, and most would not if they could.

        That does reflect a basic difference. In my readings about the cult in earlier decades, I have observed it was “franchise” or “mission” based scilons who took the role of auditor as confessor a bit more seriously. But they were freer to do so because they were one step removed from the “org”. To me, that suggests the true values of L Ron’s scientology place access to dirty secrets for the purposes of control above any part of the auditor’s “code”.

    • Snippy_X

      Really nice!

  • Captain Howdy

    Accordingly to Buddhism and the Dali Lama, masturbation and homosexuality are wrong. So Marty and the Martians aren’t moving towards anything more enlightened.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Hey shit stirrer….how are ya?

      • Captain Howdy

        All religions, sects and cults throughout history have been a haven for perverts and degenerates, the Marquis de Sade understood this more clearly than anyone else.

        • Chocolate Velvet

          Oddly, Cap’n, the same is true of science. At one point in my strange and complicated life, I was in a relationship with a solar physicist. He ran a national lab here in Boulder, and often travelled to conferences and observatories all over the world.

          He, and his collegues, were some covertly horny wife-swapping motherfuckers. Sneaky, freaky, and totally undercover behind a veil of detached rationality, scientific authority, and boring bow-tie wearing gov’t authorization.

          Funny how that works, isn’t it?

          • Captain Howdy

            Three of the most “evil’ people in history, Gilles de Rais ,Marquis de Sade and Allister Crowley were all more or less innocent of the crimes attributed to them and were victims of religion and their next of kin.

            • Chocolate Velvet

              Man, that is so true.

              Then there’s Reich and Tesla, for starters — victims of the “inquisition” of science, and not nearly the quacks or kooks they are portrayed to be.

              Human nature is larger than any one vehicle we create for it. I think you get this, yes?

            • Are_sics

              Thanks for saying so – it often strikes me that Hubbard’s interest in Crowley (and/or having stolen from Crowley) is trotted out to show just how depraved Hubbard is. Crowley was a saint in comparison to Hubbard. And Crowley, unlike Parsons, was not fooled by Hubbard at all.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I would hope Crowley wasn’t terrified of and hateful toward gays…considering, er, well you know.

            • Are_sics

              Yes, he was bisexual when such a thing could get you press as “the most evil man in the world”. Mixed though his legacy may be, he wasn’t a fraction the evil Hubbard was.

            • Are_sics

              Right. My point. Crowley was “the most evil man in the world” at a time that being an out bisexual was enough to earn that title. Invoking his name to show how evil Hubbard was is laughable. Hubbard was so much worse in every regard.

            • FistOfXenu

              Yeah, Disqus isn’t behaving itself. I just got a load of notices about stuff being posted that I should’ve gotten yesterday.

            • coonellie

              Of course, Stalin, Mao and Hitler, recent examples from history, did do most of what was attributed to them, most in the name of anti-religion. People are people, evil is evil, and any excuse will do…most of the time.

            • Captain Howdy

              Hitler was a Catholic and most of the people who died directly or indirectly due to the actions of Stalin or Mao had little if anything to to do with religion.

            • sugarplumfairy

              “The real question is whether Hitler persevered in the faith of his baptism or turned from it. The historical record clearly shows that Hitler, in both word and deed, repudiated the faith of his baptism, so Hitler’s “Catholicism” is a non-issue..” I just stole that from somewhere on the http://www..

          • BuryTheNuts2

            I am paraphrasing this quote…

            No one has dignity 100% of the time. Not as long as humans have the need to defecate and have sex.
            -Steven Pinker

            • hogarthian

              PERFECT! And there we have it. We’re all fucked, basically.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              And we are all full of shit.

            • Chocolate Velvet

              Which is why regular fiber and good hygiene are so fucking important!

              Yul Gibbons was right!

              LOL. 😉

            • FistOfXenu

              Maybe not but at some point in life we all wish we could be.

          • hogarthian

            Pissed with power. There ain’t many of us completely immune. Watch yer backs!

      • Captain Howdy
    • SP ‘Onage

      Yea, was just going to ask if anybody’s heard from you.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Marty and the Martians!
      He needs to form a rock band.

      • FistOfXenu

        Wow, so now we’re running a side activity coming up with good names for rock bands?

        • Captain Howdy

          Fuck yea , did you think we were doing this for altruistic reasons ?

    • All the Buddha said about sex was, don’t do bad stuff. He did not define what the bad stuff was, but considering the rest of what he said, it would make sense to think he meant things which harm others. Of course, Jesus said nothing about homosexuality, abortion, masturbation, anal sex, and etc., but that doesn’t stop certain Christian leaders from pretending his entire mission on Earth was to oppose people having orgasms and women controlling their own bodies. Makes it a lot easier for those leaders to pretend Jesus didn’t say anything about hypocrisy, justice, mercy, caring for others, and what assholes rich people are.

  • sharon brown

    This just confirms they would Never accept me as a member because the minute they start asking me about who and what I’ve done sexually, is the moment I’d tell them about the time I f**ked their Daddy and how Good it was ,positions included ! lol,( getting pissed again and needed some humor !) Tommy used to liken auditing to a ” confessional” like the Catholic church but in that case , you tell what you want to confess ( and there’s No video nor paper trail being passed around for your peers to ridicule you !), in $ci-cult someone is asking you probingly intimate questions while hooked up to what they believe is a BS, lie detector! You don’t have to answer truthfully, but if you don’t , your friends, family etc. will just do a KR on you and fill in the missing data ! 1984 in Real life ! I bet even Orson didn’t realise the extent some Lunatic would go to , to make it happen .

  • 0tessa

    Isn’t this whole Scientology ‘tech’ not just a form of psychological masturbation?

    • Missionary Kid

      It was, for LRH.

      • 0tessa

        Yes, but he would call it MASTERbation…

        • FistOfXenu

          Love it. That must be true, because the kid wrote “periodic masterbation” on the questionairre above too.

  • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

    We in RTC have no back off on this issue of sec checks. We put everyone on the meter to see what they are doing sexually. We want all of the details.

    Why?

    Because when you’re a Scientologist you’re not like anyone else. It’s POW! You blow through all the stops to planetary clearing — and this includes stopping repulsive wog practices such as masturbating, watching porn, or sticking things up your backside. All of this aberrated conduct turns on mental image pictures and implants. And so, why, the next thing you know you’re laying in bed with another Scientologist having anal sex with them!

    How can anyone make case gain when they’re acting like a dog in heat?

    Scientology is a “good old fashioned religion” that hates sex and the body. We want to go exterior with full perceptions and the deadly enemy of exteriorization is orgasm or really body pleasure in any form.

    The only pleasure allowed, if you want to call it that, is at Flag where we want publics to be sessionable. We make them gorge themselves on food in Flag restaurants. We fatten them up like Southern Baptists so they will metab in session.

    It is not unusual to gain one hundred pounds on the OT Levels. All of that fat will help an OT go exterior because their body is in a sort of food coma and is busy making insulin. The thetan can just slip out of the body while it is busy being fat.

    The technical fact is that obesity is a sign of case gain whereas masturbation is not.

    So put down the laptop and pick up the cans: We are not auditing you!

    • dbloch7986

      That’s coincidental because it’s been scientifically (not Scientologically, mind you) proven that people who have sex less often than their sexual drive demands, tend to eat more to satisfy that urge.

      • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

        We in RTC are glad to hear it from a wog on the internet: There is Science in Scientology, just like we have always said.

        It is not that people eat because they are sexually deprived; it’s that people eat to be sessionable. You see, everyone in the world is a thetan with a craving for auditing.

        Hence, the so-called obesity epidemic is the world crying out for Scientology auditing. But then what happens? The Psychs push dieting on everyone and create a dangerous environment about food and eating. People become aberrated on the subject of eating and fail to get the auditing they need. They yo yo diet when a few intensives at Flag would handle food aberrations.

        Moreover, by way of putting a finer point on things, the diet industry is a multibillion dollar a year Psych industry that funnels pills down people’s throats. And then why yes, the next thing you now people are babbling and neurotic on an enforced “must not be fat, must be thin” implant and so then, here it comes, they start taking Psych drugs in an A=A=A!

        Here are the technical facts:

        * The ideal weight for a male OT at Flag is 275-400 pounds.

        * The ideal weight for a female OT at Flag is 240-350 pounds.

        * You can be “OT plump” and smoke cigarettes at Flag.

        As an OT on course, you can eat cakes, cookies, cheeseburgers, chocolates and anything else you can shovel down your gullet. All those calories help you go exterior with full perception.

        The choice is yours: Be a skinny wog on Psych drugs and a perpetual diet, or, belly up to the table at Flag and dive into a seven course feast that ends with a big slice of triple chocolate cake followed by session!

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Yeah, all that will help you go exterior all right!

        • dbloch7986

          The obsession with food in Scientology has been the hardest thing for me to overcome! I must say, there are many other damaging things that I have experienced, but nothing has been as difficult to overcome as this obsession with eating.

          • hogarthian

            Christ, it gets worse. They encourage you to eat!! Comfort eating, in its purest form. This stinks.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              You hang around here lot you will gain weight too. Wine is high in calories and my ass is proof!

            • hogarthian

              Tell me about it… it’s only been a week of sitting on my arse reading this horror story, and I suspect I’m brewing up a deep vein thrombosis.

          • Steven Fry said something great about the the Catholic Church being obsessed with sex ..i think it applies to scientology even more . He said that sex is a dark and primal impulse. It is fun , jolly ..but because it is primal ..it is also dangerous . It is much like food in that respect. However …the only people who are obsessed with food are the anorexics and the obese . That is the church in a nutshell when it comes to sex.

            I thought his comment was really interesting. I mean ..look at what is happening now with Rome . Cardinals that are in conclave are up on charges of doing things that a normal , moral person ..would never even consider doing . Cardinal Law of Boston …used to sit at my grandmothers dinner table when he was lower on the food chain . He covered up so much when he was later the Archbishop in Boston ..he actually left the country to avoid prosecution . People sometimes forget that Vatican City is actually it’s own country . No one has an extradition treaty with them …NOT one country in the world. So …you can’t swing a dead cat in Vatican City without hitting a child rapist .

            • hogarthian

              Bravo. Sometimes I wonder what the fuck is wrong with us. Can’t we just stop pissing about with the most basic human instinct? Start depriving people of regular sex and the shit hits the fan, whether they’re catholic cardinals, jehovah’s witnesses, anglicans, or scientologists. The minute you forbid or sanction an act, any act, it immediately becomes the guilty gift that keeps on giving. EVERYONE needs to start shouting loud about the fucked up damage that the regulation of bodies causes.

          • DodoTheLaser

            Derek, I have a friend with the same problem. He had a surgery 2 weeks ago where they basically made his stomach smaller. When I first heard about it, I thought it was a bit extreme and it made me worry about him. However, the surgery went smooth and he is very happy – he already lost bunch of pounds and buying smaller size clothes. He feels good too. It is a bit pricey $5.000, even if you do it in Mexico (border of San Diego), which where he went (it’s even more expensive in US), but it seems to work great, if nothing else does. Just a thought. I know money are tight, but think about it, do some research and if that’s what you will decide to do, set up a donation page, like Headley’s did and I’m sure many will pitch in, I know I will, even if modestly.

            • Missionary Kid

              My sister’s a retired RN, and she’s had to take care of people who’ve had the bariatric surgery you describe. For some people, it works out very well, but for many others, there are digestive problems that develop.

              It’s not like a facelift, because the chemistry of the stomach often ends up modified.

            • DodoTheLaser

              Thanks, MK. I don’t know much about it, it does seem a bit extreme.
              I just report on my buddy’s current experience, which so far is positive.

            • Missionary Kid

              I’m happy his experience has been good, and I hope it stays that way.

              I know, I may be sounding like one of those CYA voice-overs that are tacked on to pharmaceutical ads you see on TV, but it’s still surgery, not to be taken lightly.

            • DodoTheLaser

              True.

          • hogarthian

            Miscarriage isn’t overweight is he? I wonder why? Because he doesn’t practice the religion he preaches, that’s why. He’s nothing but a fucking little despot.

            And could probably do with a HUGE dose of one of those chemical cosh’s he rails against.

        • Ms. B. Haven

          Thanks, Kirsti is starting to make a whole lot more sense to me after this explanation but I still think she looks a lot better in the 180-190 lb. range…

          • If she would stop with the diets, she would probably settle down to about that weight. Though her issues with weight fluctuation are the least of her problems. I’m hoping that Jason Beghe was right about how close she and Priscilla Presley are, and that she’ll follow her friend out of the cult.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Wow.. Is Priscilla out?

        • DodoTheLaser

          RTC is right, next time anyone feel the sweet urge to touch themselves, just grab that beef jerky.

      • thus my crossfit training

    • Chocolate Velvet

      “All of this aberrated conduct turns on mental image pictures and implants. And so, why, the next thing you know you’re laying in bed with another Scientologist having anal sex with them!”

      Even worse, you might find yourself in bed with a chocolate-sexy uninhibited wog, or even an evil psych — with tantric training and a mission to make you in the RTC blow charge on your rejection of scientology, and then blow the RTC altogether.

      That would be awful…

      • BuryTheNuts2

        BAAHAAAHAAA…………go CV

    • hogarthian

      I clearly haven’t lurked for anywhere near long enough. I have no idea whether you’re for real or not.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Your brighter than most.

        http://otviiiisgrrr8.com/

        This will answer all of your questions grasshopper.

        • Are_sics

          I am second in admiration for OTVIIisGrrr8! to no one; yet, I managed, until today, to have missed that website. Thank you again, BurytheNuts2. I’m very grateful to be informed even at this late hour.

        • hogarthian

          Fucking excellent. They’re everywhere! What’s that song?… “Come out come out wherever you are”?

      • Are_sics

        OTVIIIisGrrr8! is a genius for real. That should be enough info for your question to be answered. The screen name might be enough, even, but I thought I’d add my 2cents.

      • Missionary Kid

        Check out their website. It’s great satire. http://otviiiisgrrr8.com/

      • Mrs Libnish

        I got burned by the 8 my first post in.

      • hogarthian

        I’m a bit scared now. Just a bit.

  • pluvo

    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDnXiTZxyCw) – remove brackets

    Excerpt from the video above from an Ex SO:

    … “And the moment you do that in there, you’re punished! You know, I wanted to experience sex, I wanted to touch a female body. But the moment I did it, I’m dragged into this office by these men that tell you you’re an ape! You’re an ape for masturbating, you’re evil for even having considered the idea of, of, of, of touching this woman outside of marriage, you know? And, you know, I look around me and see the people that are married in this place, and they don’t even get to see their wives, so why would I want that? I just wanted to know what it was like to kiss a woman, and that’s punishable. And then, you know, and I’m forced onto the decks, I’m made to clean and do hard labour to do amends, to repent for it, and I’m held in this office and told read this, this shows that, you know, if you think about ejaculation, if you think about touching a woman, you’re an ape, you’re not in control of your emotions.” …

    • Poison Ivy

      This reminds me of what my Dad told me he went through as a young Irish Catholic boy in the 20’s; except Scientology is SO MUCH WORSE!!! Who knew there was a “religion” that was more messed up about sex than old school Catholicism? (Disclaimer – I have nothing against Catholics or Catholicism in general and am from a family of Catholics…I’m talking about the old school, repressive, punitive, perverse “Preist is always right/think of sex and burn in hell” Catholicism that my Dad grew up in.)

      • Missionary Kid

        I can attest that fundamentalist Protestants can be really anti-sexual, too.

      • Johan

        And a ‘modern religion’ at that!

  • Good post today, Tony – incredible! While on staff at Narconon, I was two days away from my first E-Meter auditing session. A member from the Montreal ORG was scheduled to audit me. Qual assured me that all the things I was doing in PT would improve and I would qualify for higher posts, including ED of NN TR within 18 months. I replied I definately didn’t want that post as suggested by the ESTO Officer in command at that time. The day before my Session, I was told the Auditing would not happen because they wanted to do a Sec Check first. I had access to all the Hubbard Volumes in the Staff Academy and read about Sec Checks etc. I then told them I would NOT submit to a Sec Check, nor did I want Auditing. I had already been through interrogations for being PTS and refused to disconnect from anyone. Unfortunately, my daughter who was an ethics officer at NN TR, did have E-Meter Auditing and even though she BLEW at 2:00am in the morning from NN TR and provided me with many damning documents for several months, 48 hours before the airing of Brian Williams “Rock Center” Narconon Expose, she turned and submitted a scathing letter, with blatant lies and attacks,…, which took me several hours to dis-prove before the TV Show aired. Now, she has disconnected from me and one only needs to read between the lines as to what her E-Meter Auditing Session was about and how thick the dossier is? When reading Tony Ortega’s post here today about the sexual confession of those being audited, it brought my mind back to Narconon and how many sexual abuses and sexual manipulations and coercions, were plagued upon patients at the center. In my opinion, these Cult “Clears” who were staff and executive staff, should be locked up! In Brief, one male patient had his mail withheld from his wife because a female Qual pervert was taking him to her apartment on weekends and having her way. The head Course Supervisor was taking a patient to HER apartment on weekends for fun times. A recent Grad in training to be an ethics officer, was coerced to move in with the ESTO Officers niece and she became pregnant. The NN TR Legal Liason Officer became pregnant by a recent Grad and a baby boy was born. NN convinced this young man to not take his Meds and he shot himself dead with a gun he received at the NN Staff apartment complex. I WAS LIVING IN A CULT COMPOUND OF HELL – – LIKE IN A HORROR-SCIENCE FICTION MOVIE! I, too, became a sex boy-toy for the ESTO Officer as soon as I graduated. I can’t discuss this too much because of an ongoing investigation by the Human Rights commission for Sexual Harassment and Discrimination at a work place. I really wish I could tell ALL right now because I NEED to for my own sake of sanity. Sometimes, when I revisit the crimes and abuses upon desperate and vulnerale, ill patients, salty water runs down my face – – painful events too much for me to deal with alone. I believe the Cult though I would give up a long time ago and go home to my children in western Canada, but I WILL NOT GIVE UP, NOR GO AWAY until Justice is served. Sorry for rambling on here, and THANK YOU Tony Ortega, for having the balls to keep pushing and EXPOSING the atrocities. <3 🙂

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Thank you for all you have done and for never ever giving up.
      You are absolutely loved.

      • Observer

        I absolutely agree, and am otherwise speechless. Most Ethical People on the Planet, oh yeah … *barf*

    • aquaclara

      Bury speaks for us all in conveying our thanks and admiration to you.
      Damn the cult. Am sending huge hugs, strength and as much courage as there is in this world to you. To fight, to persevere, and to continue to be the voice of good triumphing over evil.
      Your writing, investigations and outreach work are truly awesome.

      • Thank you ^^^ BOTH for the very kind comments. I think if tears really were a stairway to Heaven, many of us would be there now. I spoke to a Victim last night who was so traumatized by her stay at Narconon, they were just released from the hospital yesterday after a two week stay! I know & LOVE this person so very much. This patient’s underlying mental illness condition, was a dual diagnosis of Addiction/Mental Illness, but of course NEVER addressed by Narconon whatsoever. This person’s story is but a small fraction of those neglected and abused that I talk to on a regular basis. The POSITIVE NOTE, is that these people are now receiving appropriated medical care and should live a productive life. Others, like the one I loved so VERY dearly, will not see another sunset or sunrise. Narconon contributed to her death through incompetent and untrained staff. A TRIBUTE TO ARLENE – R.I.P – –

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVu3SGgFmXk

        • aquaclara

          There are not enough tears to compensate for the loss of even one spirit. Arlene must have been a wonderful, giving person. Thank heavens for the good people who were able to help the victim you spoke to last night.
          You know we find lots of things on this blog to give us the giggles or the snarks.. But it’s the days with all the tears that are most meaningful. Each tear is eroding and chipping away at Davy’s pedestal. It’s all coming down. And when it does, there will not be a safe place for him on this earth, let alone in the next life.

    • 1subgenius

      Stop=Fail
      Continue=Win

    • SP ‘Onage

      I remember reading your post at wwp when your daughter wrote that letter. Of course it was apparent OSA had some thing to do with it. Now it makes sense. I didn’t know your daughter was a scientologist. Thanks for sharing that here.

      Hopefully we can hear the rest of your story when your book comes out. I know it will be one helluva read. Sorry you’ve been through so much.

    • DeElizabethan

      David, thank you so much for sharing what you can of your story. You are strong and brave to keep at em’ and in telling the truth. Because of people like yourself and others we are seeing the insidious cult’s reckoning.

    • We are here for you David, any time you need us!*hugs*

  • Honestly couldn’t read past the first two, then I was done. I felt like I was violating someone and that’s will all the personal info removed.

    • 1subgenius

      I’m with you there.

  • SP ‘Onage

    I hope somebody saved that poor ginny (guinea) pig. 🙁

    • hogarthian

      The ginny’s on Oprah next week… that should kick start the closure for him.

      • SP ‘Onage

        Wat?

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Just say hahaha

          • SP ‘Onage

            😀

        • hogarthian

          Sorry.

          • SP ‘Onage

            Hey, it’s cool. I just don’t understand your humor. You kinda remind me of a poster named, Marcotai.

            • whingeybingey

              It’s British humour, which is often subtle but usually very clever. As an Australian I grew up with a lot of British comedies that I adored. I chuckled at the Oprah joke – imagining the poor little guinea pig on the couch sharing it’s story of abuse. Lol.

            • SP ‘Onage

              Whingey, you always make everything better. Now I get it. I do enjoy British comedy, but sometimes it flys right over my head. I never heard the Oprah joke before. 😀

            • EnthralledObserver

              Haha, really? … As another Aussie I couldn’t understand how you didn’t get the joke about Oprah. Sometimes culture differences are a little wider than I realised, I guess. Hmmm…

            • whingeybingey

              Well, thank you, SP ‘Onage! I am no expert on humour, but it strikes me there could well be cultural differences in the way humour is expressed. I often wonder how many differences in my sense of humour and my partner’s are just our personalities, and how many are culturally based – and can you even separate the personality from the culture given that it was formed in that cradle? I don’t know – I’m wondering about everything at the moment, and it really sucks! It would be much less gruelling just to know about everything, I’m thinking.

            • Missionary Kid

              As a person who first went to a British colonial school for kindergarten and the first form, I can say that your humour is different than American humor. 😉

              I’ve learned that sometimes I need to put a [snark] at the end of a post, not only because my writing skills sometimes fail me, and I’m not being subtle, but stupid.

            • whingeybingey

              Wow! What religion were your parents, if you don’t mind me asking? It sounds like an interesting way to grow up and hopefully it was a positive experience. Are you talking about British humour or Australian humour? My partner thinks we’ve got a whole n’other language that he calls Oingy Boingy and he doesn’t know how anyone can understand us….

            • Missionary Kid

              My parents were fundamentalist Christian missionaries in China. We got out of China because of the Revolution just before the Communist takeover, and ended up in Hong Kong, where I went to to King George V school, then came back to the U.S., where I grew up.

              As a small child, it was an interesting experience, and as I grew older, the religious strictures and control were things that I sensed were not for me. I think I react so negatively to Co$ because of the strong control that the church exerts on its members and because Co$, to me, seems to be a different, more manipulative, and cruel version of the fundamentalism I grew up in. I’m now an atheist, but I don’t try to convert anyone, unless they try to convert me.

              I’m sorry, I guess I conflated British and Aussie humor because of the similar spelling. Each part of the former British Empire has developed its own take on things. Probably because of the reserve that the British have, they can be very understated and “dry.” To my mind, the Aussies developed a much more open and direct type of humor, but they still retained the elements of understatement inherited from Britain. I’m sure that you can see differences in humor from different regions in Australia where we would see similarities. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

              Here in the U.S., we have regional humor, that is tied in with how people grew up. In the South, there are expressions and attitudes that are different than in N.Y. or L.A.

              Strine and Cockney have their own rhythms, as well as expressions that can be nearly unintelligible to Americans, but the rest of the U.S. sometimes feels that way about people who grew up in the Appalachians.

              I get annoyed with Americans who don’t understand that there are many different flavors of people who speak English. We can often be way too parochial.

            • whingeybingey

              I also grew up in a fundamentalist Christian group – pentecostal – although this mob were very culty in their control. As an adult after leaving Scientology I later returned to neo-Charismatic / Pentecostal / traditional versions of Christianity that weren’t controlling, but I would currently say that I am agnostic, since my partner challenged a lot of my beliefs and I had to admit I had no proof at all for the existence of any kind of god. I would still be open to meeting such a being if he/she/it did exist but not sure if I would react with joy or fury. I am pretty conflicted about the whole issue. I would love for their to be a god or gods who cared about me – but, like most of the world, I have as many reasons to be angry at any such beings as I do for any sort of gratitude.

              My partner is from the South in the U.S. and I think the regional differences over there are far more pronounced than in Australia where there is relatively little. Most differences would be “class” differences – which are not as pronounced in Australia as in many other places. http://dialectblog.com/2011/07/10/types-of-australian-accents/

              The hardest problem I have with my partner is getting him to understand that expectations for, of, and by women in my country might be different from what he knows, or that our laws might be different, our procedures, even some of our food. It is great to have a cultural exchange, but there is no doubt he thinks his country is superior. It makes me sad that he won’t acknowledge there might be some good or even better things about mine, and that he would never want to come and see some of the things I love about it. There are so many things I would like to share with him, the gum trees and the native parrots, the Southern Cross, how deeply blue the sky is and the sheer number of stars every night. I miss seeing the stars so clearly when I am there, although I’m sure there are lots of places there where you can see them if you are outside of the cities. But still, it wouldn’t be my southern skies.

              I’ve come to love the oaks and the squirrels and magnolias and everything as well. But Australia will obviously always be my first love.

            • Missionary Kid

              I think that leaving my fundamentalist background prepared me to reject $cientology when I was exposed to it as an adult. (I had a brief encounter when I was about 12 years old- about 1957 but that doesn’t really count ). Since I saw my parent’s behavior in meeting people as all a part of outreach to bring people to Jesus, I was wary of any movement that worked so hard to get people “in.” I hated the bait and switch tactics that I saw in $cientology.

              I spent about 20 years as an agnostic, and I’m finally willing to say that I’m an atheist. My dad kept trying to “save” me up until he died at 90. I have the perfect answer when someone tries that. “It’s all a matter of faith.” I didn’t lose mine, I just gained another. My basic attitude about religion is almost, “whatever floats your boat,” with the exception being if your belief impinges on me, or it’s harmful to people in it.

              I’m assuming that you’re living in the U.S. Your partner sounds like a person who is happy and comfortable here in the U.S., but doesn’t realize that different cultures and countries have different advantages as well as disadvantages. I’ve spent time with my relatives in Europe, and felt quite comfortable in England and Scotland, but I’m more comfortable here. Everything here is NOT the best. After all, this is where Dianutty and $cientology originated, Co$ is headquartered here, and is allowed tax exemption.

            • whingeybingey

              Oh, no, he’s in the US. I’m in Australia. Of the 33 months we’ve been together, I guess I’ve spent 13 of them living with him over there. One day I’m going to have to choose, since he won’t come here. If I don’t ever go back it’s over basically.

              I was in Los Angeles for three months back in 1989. I also prefer the dry heat to the humidity in the South. We had the hottest summer ever here in Australia and I just thought it was so lovely and mild compared to the last couple of summers I spent in the South. I almost got heatstroke once, then only went out after dark. And then it’s horribly cold in the winter. I can’t believe anyone lives in a place like that, but it seems people do. I like the Autumn there, though, and Spring can be alright too. Luckily my Winter there was mild and only snowed once.

              Yeah, I am pretty live and let live about religion also. But I do resent that I was taught things as true when I was a child that are really just somebody’s beliefs, and that I was taught to “trust” and have “faith” and not to “think” and “question”. In many ways I feel like Ella Enchanted. Somebody says something and it’s like a command. I don’t think you do children a favour when you teach them to be blindly obedient.

            • Missionary Kid

              My question is, has your partner even visited Australia? Without doing that, or being around enough Aussies, he’s not going to understand where you’re coming from. When he gets off the plane, keep reminding him to look right instead of left when he crosses the street. 😉

              I haven’t known many women from down under. From observing some of the guys (Joeys?) I’ve seen some deplorable attitudes towards women. It was a very small sample.

              I more or less grew up in L.A. The climate varies a lot, depending on how close you are to the ocean. It is generally semi-arid, and nearly all the greenery one sees is because of irrigation, except for the canyons. The weather is what it is because of the cold ocean current.

              In the South, because of the warm water of the Gulf of Mexico and along the Atlantic coast, the air has much more humidity in it because of that.warmth.

              The reason for so many tornadoes in “tornado alley” is because the cooler, dry air from the Pacific and North collides with the moisture-laden air of the East and South. It rarely snows in the South and in California away from the mountains. While living in Santa Barbara, I saw the snow level get down to about the 300 meter level once. It last snowed in L.A. in about 1950.

              Part of my move from fundamentalism was becoming educated, not only about the history of the bible, as well as secular history. If I happen to have a Jehovah’s Witness come to the door, and I’m in a mood to, I can take their reasoning apart in a very short time because I know the basis of their beliefs better than they do.

              If I’m confronted by some Evangelical trying to “witness” to me, I usually pull out my missionary background and let them natter along. The worst are those that are recently converted. The rest are usually a part of a church that provides all of their social needs, so they don’t associate much with the unwashed.. That’s somewhat like $cientology. They’ve got their kids being home schooled, for fear of intellectual contamination, and they isolate themselves. It isn’t as coercive as Co$, but it has elements. There is a strong “us against the rest of the world” to their attitude, as well as the impetus to try and “save” the rest of the world. Sound familiar?

              The big difference is that they are not a pyramid scheme (using scheme in the American definition) like Co$ is. I say, “Thank goodness for DM,” because he’s sucking so much money out of a smaller and smaller base of faithful that it’s causing the $cibots to wake up and Co$ to collapse. It puts the lie to the supposed altruistic goals that are espoused. Unfortunately, it takes a more and more serious toll on those individuals left.

              The independents are still following a corrupt, vile person. Either they haven’t woken up to that fact, or they have pulled so much crap in being fellow travelers that they are unwilling to face their own past vile deeds. They are able to offer cut-rate auditing because they don’t have to pay tribute to DM, and, since they don’t have the files of the people being audited to blackmail them with past admissions.

              Religion is all a matter of faith. You can’t argue faith, and I don’t. If someone wants to talk history or facts or bible, I’ll take them apart because I won’t accept their premises, and most don’t know the history of their beliefs. They make the assumption that things have always been as they are now. One of my sayings is, “Youth has no memory.”

            • whingeybingey

              No, but there are personal reasons he doesn’t want to do that. There is a bit of a history of misogyny going back to the days of the First Fleet, but there is also a touch of that sort of Anzac spirit about lots of Australian men that I very much respect e.g. the Australian Light Horsemen at the Battle of Beersheba on their trusty Walers. Like any group of people, it’s complicated. : )

            • Missionary Kid

              My reason for asking about whether he’s been to Oz was asked because there’s things that are better seen than having explained to one about different cultures. I think that at least a visit to your place in Australia would help him understand you. That might be very necessary to reduce friction in a long term relationship.

              I mentioned the Aussies that I’d met because while I considered how they acted towards women sexist, I know that there’s probably a lot I don’t know about Australian culture, and how they actually interact with women at home could be completely different. To American women, they were exotic, and they took full advantage. I probably did the same while I was in Britain.

              The way that the brave Anzacs were mistreated at Gallipoli was, I think, partially a result of the British class system as well as the attitude towards the colonies. I think those attitudes towards colonies were some of the same attitudes that caused the American colonies to revolt over a century earlier. The men were heroes in my mind, and it was the Col. Blimps of the British army that caused the invasion to fail, along with the bold moves of the Turk, Kemal Attuturk. The good that came out of it was the British learned from the failure and used that lesson in invasions of Africa, Sicily, and Normandy in the next war.

            • whingeybingey

              This part of a take-home exam I had to answer at Winston-Salem a year ago might explain some of how I feel about all this. Hopefully I won’t be accused of plagiarising myself now… :nervous:

              How has your perspective on masculinity changed since the beginning of this course? Be specific.

              It is impossible to answer this question without first considering where I have come from, specifically my cultural background and a schema of masculinity which has been necessarily Australian. Having been raised to see Australian masculinity as the norm it has been interesting to consider white and black American masculinity, and also whether this might differ by region. During this semester I have come to see that there are even more constructions of masculinity that could be considered, both real and ideal.

              Although Australian culture comes under the general category of Western and white, it is also unique. This is particularly true of the way in which masculinity is constructed. In 1976 Miriam Dixson wrote, “A past, a history, unusually steeped in misogyny, has bequeathed Australians some especially narrow styles of man-woman relations, with nuances specific to Australia” (13). She also wrote, “Men like women less in Australia than in any other community I know” (Dixson 17).

              Dixson goes on to note that, “As far as Australian writers are concerned, right up to modern times, male-female relationships have no potential literary substance. There are no Australian
              love-poems. There are few detailed studies of women in the Australian novel” (32-33). Frederick C. Folkard goes even further, observing that “woman, in a way, has always been a bit of an embarrassment to the Australian. He does not quite know what to do with her. He accepts love casually, is regarded as an inept wooer and shies away from passionate protestations” (qtd. in Dixson 28).

              The formative years of any country tend to make an indelible impact on the psyche of its future generations. In the case of Australia:

              Much that was admirable came out of our formative decades, but much that helps explain Australian woman’s not-quite-western low status also came out of them: violence, brutality, widespread prostitution and a concomitant generalized contempt for women; male addiction to the company of males and heavy drinking; and a reverence for muscle-over-mind, which masked envy and manifested hostility towards the intellect (Dixson 71).

              On Australia Day, January 26, 1788, the convict women from the First Fleet were landed on shore by the soldiers and deliberately subjected to wholesale rape by the male convicts. This was the birth of European Australia. At times in Australian colonial history there was only one woman for every ten men. Virtue was not what was expected of or wanted from these women. When a woman was finally emancipated, prostitution was often the only employment to be had in the new settlement. In many ways this perception of the roles of men and women laid the foundation for the nation’s future.

              Dixson explains that “During the formative times of all States, except South Australia, women were widely treated with contempt, in its many variations, and often with brutality. We have never outgrown the former attitude, and our women are still deeply, if unconsciously, impoverished by this dominant cultural characteristic” (12). Not only does this impact the women, but it necessarily affects the men. Dixson asks “. . . does it really benefit Australian men that Australian women are amongst the least confident and autonomous in the Western world?” (50).

              Of course each man is an individual, and much cultural change has occurred since the mid-1970s, but the “gods of Australia” still tend to be

              males under all-male and danger-fraught conditions: e.g. mateship-men at Gallipoli and Ned Kelly’s all-male gang; or males who are loners and rolling-stones, nineteenth-century Ockers, eternal sexual adolescents, one feels, exuding wariness or fear about women, and often themselves virtually womanless. Henry Lawson and Ned Kelly will do as examples. In short, Australian gods were and are largely misogynist. (Dixson 11-12)

              Lawson and Kelly typify the Australian equivalent of Neal’s “Strong Black Man”, an archetype
              which sees women relegated “’almost to the status of chattels’ in a weirdly-segregated ‘booze society’” (qtd. in Dixson 28).

              Coming to terms with masculinity in a foreign land is quite challenging because there is no internal schema from which to compare various masculine attitudes or behaviors. It is hard to know whether a given behavior is the performance of a cultural masculinity or the product of an individual personality. Sometimes it can feel like a case of “better the devil you know” when dealing with a member of the opposite sex without that frame of reference. Even if the socialization from one’s own culture is more destructive, at least it produces a known quantity.

              What I have learned is that there are different issues with the performance of masculinity cross-culturally that most people are completely unaware of. One should never assume that the norms of one’s own culture apply elsewhere, even within the same geographic region. I have also learned that masculinity needs to be examined in the light of patriarchy. This may reveal a need to reimagine a particular kind of masculinity so as to reduce male aggression or obtain respect for its females – without sacrificing the unique essence of what it means to be, for example, a young European Australian or African American man.

              Works Cited

              Dixson, Miriam. The Real Matilda: Woman and Identity in Australia, 1788 to the Present.
              1976. Sydney: UNSW Press, 1999. Print.

            • Missionary Kid

              “One should never assume that norms of one’s own culture apply elsewhere, even within the
              same geographic region” is very true. I would also say that Miriam Dixson has, IMHO, made a lot of generalizations about Australian relations between the sexes that should be examined re:
              her particular prejudices.

              To me, there is probably some truth in what she wrote about Australian masculinity, (which I can’t really say what is and what isn’t because I haven’t been there) but I would also say that what she wrote sounds as if it were written during the feverish rise of the women’s movement in America in the 1960s and 70s. Academic writing, to me, particularly sociological treatises often go to great lengths to prove a particular point.

              Some of my own viewpoints: In Chinese society, where female children were not valued, at the same time, I believe it is the matriarch of the family who has the real power. When I was in the South, I discovered that relations between the races was much deeper and complex than what was depicted. In some ways, it has made reconciliation easier between the races than in
              other regions on a personal level. My point is that I believe Dixson has possibly oversimplified things to make a point.

              While the history of Australia started out with the rape she cited, the scarcity of women also probably made them valuable, particularly when it came to building a family. I cite the American
              gold rush of the middle 19th century. I think that she ignores some of these forces in the writings you cited.

              I saw the behavior (behaviour in British colonial spelling) in Australian men: wanting to hang out and drink with each other while ignoring the women, but I’m sure that there is much more to the
              relationship between the sexes. Myself, I felt that the behavior I observed was misogynistic, but I also knew that I didn’t see them immersed in their culture, as well as how Australian women interacted with them.

              Dixson sounds like the type of feminist who is shaking up Australian society, which it may well need, but reading http://www.marxists.org/archive/gould/2000/miriamdixson.htm gives me a further look at where she’s coming from. I don’t agree or disagree with the writer’s view of Dixson, but it does give me a certain insight.

              I’m old enough to look at firebrands with a jaundiced view. They are necessary to change things, but they also can create problems with the singularity of their point of view. Societies and
              individuals are often far more complex. Dixson seems to be one of them, and she has the theoretical absolutism that both communists and those of the ultra-conservative movements often have. They also tend to ignore facts that contradict their world view, so they often miss
              the subtleties or alternative explanations that exist. Perhaps Australian society needs a shaking up, and it sounds as if she’s leading the way, causing people to discuss topics they haven’t
              before.

              The sense of entitlement that the American male had needed shaking up, and feminism did it in the 60s and 70s and beyond, but I also point out that Gloria Steinem, who was one of the leaders of the feminist movement is now married.

              I used to think that if one raised boys and girls in the same way, that they would grow up with equality of the sexes. I soon learned that the biggest male chauvinist pigs are 4 year old boys. It’s in the jeans and the genes, as well as with their peers. Their declaration is often, “Girls don’t do that” for something they consider a male only activity. When it’s pointed out that their mother does it, their answer is, “She’s not a girl, she’s a MOM.”

              I would not presume to think that American society is somehow better or more equal than than
              Australian. I can only really comment on what I’ve seen here, and what might be the case in Oz. Probably Australian society is more evolved than ours in some ways, and ours theirs. It is truly a case of apples and oranges.. Both, however, are fruit.

            • whingeybingey

              Well, yes, that is all true. But the comment about “As far as Australian writers are concerned, right up to modern times, male-female relationships have no potential literary substance. There are no Australian love-poems. There are few detailed studies of women in the Australian novel” is interesting I think. And don’t get me wrong – I worship our ‘Australian gods’ along with the best of them – the Ned Kellys and Henry Lawsons – that is what I was trying to say about I do respect Australian men. And as Dixon noted, “Much that was admirable came out of our formative decades”. I love being Australian. I love our culture. And I’m just as likely to suffer from ethnocentrism as the next person. My comments were really about the kind of misogyny you observed. But, for instance, my mother would always take the side of whomever I was married to rather than myself. If we were all at a buffet she would demand to know why I wasn’t getting a plate for my partner. I always kind of thought, you know, they have legs and arms to get their own – but she WAS a 1970s housewife – one of the first working mothers of the era. And she still believes that rape within marriage is ridiculous – what do women get married for if they don’t expect to have sex? We have some interesting discussions on that one! Sometimes I am literally gobsmacked at what she comes out with. I certainly don’t think American men are superior to Australian men. They can tend to come across as more confident – which can be either quite sexy or very arrogant and just plain annoying.

            • Missionary Kid

              We lucky that our colonies had already revolted by the time the first fleet arrived in Australia. Since America was much closer, our colonists were adventurers, religious groups, those seeking a new life, or profit. We had enough of the British, and, as a part of the rejection of the British rule, cast off the church of England and all royalty. We do have class distinction, but in a far lesser way than other former colonies. There is, however, remnants of it contained in attitudes towards blacks, who are mostly the descendents of former slaves.

              We have also been fortunate to have a history of female authors, from Louisa May Alcott and Harriet Beecher Stowe of the 19th century on to the present. We have images of women fighting
              alongside men, as well as nursing them for battle wounds right at the front. That doesn’t mean we haven’t had misogynists, just that there has been representations of strong women in our literature , as well as romantic ones.

              Our men can be just as chauvinistic as yours, but in different ways.

              Here’s what one of our greatest authors said about your country in the late 1890s: ”Australian history is almost always picturesque; indeed, it is so curious and strange, that it is itself the chiefest novelty the has to offer, and so it pushes the other novelties into second and third place. It does not read like history, but like the most beautiful of lies. And all of a fresh new sort, no mouldy old stale ones. It is full of surprises, and adventures, and incongruities, and contradictions, and incredibilities; but they are all true, they all happened.” – Mark Twain.

            • whingeybingey

              Wow, I like that Mark Twain quote very much! I don’t really have time to take up those other points right now, and I guess we are horribly derailing Tony’s thread. But it certainly is a fascinating topic. I think we could discuss it forever – the differences, similarities, strengths and weaknesses.

            • Missionary Kid

              By the way, unfortunately, the tall, fast growing eucalyptus that was imported to California during the gold rush era is a tree that I hate. Apparently, it grows differently in its native Australia. http://archive.audubonmagazine.org/incite/incite0201.html There are a lot of other eucalypti that I do like, for instance the silver dollar eucalyptus.

              I live in the desert, and, while it’s hotter than hell here in the summer, it’s sunnier here than in Florida because we don’t have the daily thunderstorms and clouds they have. We consider anything less than 30 miles visibility to be poor. Right now, I can look up at the snow-covered mountains. I’ve run an electrical crew here in 50 degree C (123F) temperature in the summer, but I’ll take that over 32 C (90F) and 100% humidity that I’ve seen in the South and Midwest. For about 1 month in the spring, there is a beautiful carpet of flowers covering all of the land. It’s incredible. One month later, it’s gone. I miss the cooler temperature of Santa Barbara in the summer.

            • whingeybingey

              Yes, anything taken from it’s natural environment risks causing harm like that. You see it in the South with the Japanese Kudzu. The carpet of flowers sounds magnificent. That would be quite a sight.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              You said the “M” word out loud!

            • hogarthian

              That bad huh?

            • whingeybingey

              Lol!!

      • FistOfXenu

        I bet the guinea pig jumps on the couch.

        • hogarthian

          Well, that’s where MY head was going with it!

          • SP ‘Onage

            😀

        • SP ‘Onage

          I LAUGHED SO ******* HARDDD.

  • Michael

    I realize all the attention is focused on the sex portion of this post, but I think the Garcia lawsuit news item is very interesting. The CoS lost an unopposed motion to file an enlarged brief. When you consider that this is a dispositive motion which involves constitutional issues and that it the filing is on behalf of multiple entities, and that they were only asking for an additional 10-20 pages, it is really extraordinary for the judge to deny them. This almost never happens in a situation like this.

    I am not saying that this means they will lose their motion, but it does show that they are probably off to a terrible start with this judge. Now they will have to decide whether to live with a single 25 page brief or whether to file multiple briefs on behalf of different entities in order to get their 45 pages, which they have a right to do, but which will surely piss the judge off even more.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Whoa, so this truly is good news then? I wasn’t sure what to make of it. Thanks for the post.
      I really would love to see the Garcia’s prevail. What an opening of the floodgates that would be.
      Absolutely Epic!
      Thanks again.

      • DodoTheLaser

        It’s a good sign, indeed.

    • Ms. B. Haven

      No doubt in the long run the Garcia case will have more to do with the downfall of scientology than the fact that they keep secret files of member’s personal affairs. I think the reason most commenters are focusing on the sex here is because they have experienced the abuse first hand and it hits home on a gut level. If you look at the ‘affirmations’ of Hubbard, I don’t see how you can do anything but sort of feel sorry for this sick human being. That pity is quickly replaced with anger, regret, disgust, hostility, etc., etc. because anyone posting here (who was ‘in’) has realized that they were deceived by a world class con artist who also happens to be one sick fuck foisting his own ‘case’ on the rest of humanity. Actually, once one has this realization and they want to get their money back these two things tie in nicely. Hopefully all of us who have money on account will be able to benefit from the Garcia lawsuit and be able to retrieve that money to speed the downfall.

      I am looking forward to see how the Garcia case unfolds. The justice system creeps along slowly so I think it will be a long wait. Michael, it sounds like you have some legal expertise to share. I am hoping you post here often.

    • Mary_McConnell

      Well said. I wish the Garcia lawsuit news was the main item here. This is one of the most important cases in the history of efforts to expose the crimes of this cult.

    • Poison Ivy

      Maybe they’re up against an honest (and smart!) judge this time!

    • grundoon

      $10 says they file multiple briefs and piss off the judge.

      In the 1970s, Scientology’s lawyers would deliberately infuriate judges so as to get them to recuse themselves. Often they succeeded. Scientology’s War Against Judges (The American Lawyer, December 1980)

  • CraftLass

    This may be terribly off-topic and unimportant, but it’s an honest question that’s been rattling in my head for awhile and I’m hoping someone has an answer: With all the word-clearing in CofS and focus on spelling bees in their schools, why does it seem like so many Scns are really bad at spelling anything?

    • BosonStark

      They’re too enturbulated to spell.

      • Missionary Kid

        Better answer than mine. 😉

    • Missionary Kid

      Because everything they do is all show, and no real results. As they say in Texas, All Hat, No Cattle.

      • hogarthian

        Fur coat and no knickers. As they say in England.

        • Sherbet

          If you were in cos, you’d have to confess that thought!

    • Lil’ Davey

      A child’s cognitive development is stunted by the idiotic focus on “misunderstood words” which relentlessly forces children to interrupt their reading to look up things. This slows their reading down to a fraction of a normal pace. As (real) educators know, you learn through context and voracious reading.

      But a scientologist will say that if you feel “spinny” or distracted, you need to go back and look up every word you’ve read since you started feeling that way. So in the end, an Applied Scholastics student will have read a small fraction of what a normal school would require.

      Also, they never get to higher conceptual thinking (math, philosophy,etc) because Scientologists don’t go to college. And the inventor of Applied Scholastics was a college flunk-out.

      • CraftLass

        Thanks for the serious answer (though I loved LOLing to snarkier answers, too), that makes sense. As a daughter of an English teacher/professor/scholar this was really bugging me. Heck, my mom made me look lots of words up, too (rather than tell me a definition if I asked), but also taught me to distill meanings from context, and I guess that’s the missing link here. I did notice that ex-scn child stories often include a theme of, “I loved to read, then my education made me hate reading,” which is a huge shame but certainly makes sense, both due to the boring nature of word-clearing and the desire of this “church” to make you stop thinking. Reading=considering many points of view and each book you read, regardless of genre or quality, makes you look at the world a little differently.

        And, of course, if they did get into higher conceptual thinking, they’d have to read things that prove that LRH didn’t have all that many original ideas and realize that his “philosophy” is mainly a simplistic take on other people’s ideas mixed up with mind-control techniques.

        Gosh, I guess a truly ADD Scn student would be stuck in a word-clearing loop for eternity… 🙁

        Again, thanks for making sense of something that’s really confusing. 🙂

        • Heroder

          It is confusing, but you are in the best forum/ community resource for information about Scientology available. You found the right place to ask. And we can be a lot of fun, too.

      • hogarthian

        That’s absolutely it. Lack of context and lack of the ability to conceptualise.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Exactly….operates just like what?
          A computer.
          GIGO

      • Poison Ivy

        I’ve been saying this for a while – most language learning is done by figuring out context – it also makes the mind work harder (that’s the natural way we learn language.) Not that there’s anything wrong with using a dictionary – my mama taught me very young how to do that. Was just reading Jenna’s book a few hours ago, and highlighted on my kindle the incredibly vivid description she gives of how “word clearing” actually took away her love of learning and her previous love of reading. It made the whole thing a tedious exercise in memorization. Just what Hubbard had in mind – keep their brains on rodent wheels while you co-opt ’em even more.

        • Heroder

          Back to Orwell and 1984… Control of language is control of the mind. Hyper-reliance on exact definitions and bizarre vocabulary is one of the hallmarks of a cult

    • 1subgenius

      Because the “tech” is fail.

    • well …they misspelled masturbation on question #77. Try to wrap your head around that one 😉

      • CraftLass

        Hehe, what do you think made me ask that today? 😉

    • Probably so they can sell another course to any who fail to pick up the error.

    • FistOfXenu

      Two words: “study tech”

      • CraftLass

        It’s just funny, because you’d think spelling would be the ONE thing you could get out of such an education. Not even getting that is just sad. Poor kids 🙁

  • Karen de la Carriere

    Recently 2 OT VIIIs “on and off the level” complained to me of how Scientology Inc monetizes $$$$$ masturbation $$$$$$. Due to relentless and aggressive “Federal Prosecutor” type interrogation on the Emeter, one single masturbation confessed can cost $3000 in the pay-as-you-go Sec check auditing which has a prefix “Not auditing You” so that the confession can be used to punish you later.
    The Church profits $3000 for one single masturbation !
    The auditor (counselor) is reported to be adversarial, accusative, disparaging in mood and of course the counseling session will bog down. Nancy Many had a mental breakdown in a similar type session…hers were going for hours and hours a day til breaking point.
    ++++++++
    Group confessions that came to be known as “seances.”

    Tom De Vocht long term Sea org member,
    Tom
    de Vocht was telling me just before the SP Hole started, in 2002/2003
    there was such a thing as “seances’. The Senior Managers would gather in
    the big dining hall known as MCI, and one person at a time would be picked on by the
    screaming mob. “What are you crimes on David Miscavige ?”
    People would give up masturbation as a withold.
    Apparently masturbation was big up at INT base as a HUGE criminal type activity !
    When
    someone wasn’t there to confess to masturbation, it would be announced
    to the 600-700 staff, that’s right, taken right out of the pc
    confessional folder to mock the individual. This made the flock scared
    to give up anything in a future confessional.

    The executives would confess sins they had committed against Miscavige,
    reveal their bad thoughts about Scientology and make personal
    disclosures, including sexual fantasies. If someone couldn’t come up
    with a transgression, the others bullied him into admitting something.
    Anything.

    “And Dave would sit there and listen to it and enjoy the hell out of
    it,” said De Vocht, who recalled one seance when he said Miscavige
    struck executive Marc Yager and threw him to the floor. The seance continued. One day,
    “You
    see Mary here ? (“Mary”) is an example. She’s been falsifying her stats
    and she’s been thinking of fucking me while she sticks her finger up
    her butt !”

    Imagine the leader of a “religion” talking like that !

    • Sherbet

      Good God, Karen, it’s like a bad novel about an abusive cult…except it’s real.

      • In Red China and other places these forced confessions are avoided and ran from and yet in COS people are so scammed they pay for their own abuse. Where is Tom Cruise on these human rights abuses?

    • hogarthian

      oh my god. this has got to stop. is there not an ex-sci lawyer, or a lawyer who ‘gets it’ somewhere who can take this on? Surely?

    • 1subgenius

      ” Scientology Inc monetizes $$$$$ masturbation $$$$$$”
      That’s succinct.

    • SP ‘Onage

      Masturbation is just another scientology money scam to bilk people out of their money. They are whoring the word masturbation and other sex acts for $3000 a pop. That’s why they push so hard for a confession.

      So, a Fapapolooza in scientology is actually a good thing for DM. This didn’t register in my mind until I read your post. What a diabolical scam!

      • DodoTheLaser

        But, but it’s only $250-300 an hour if you go to a Class V Org….

        • grundoon

          Special on masturbation this week! Get your O/Ws off with us before you visit Flag, and SAVE!!!! Help our Org win the Birthday Game with straight up and vertical expansion!

          • DodoTheLaser

            Umm, yes. You nailed it. LOL

    • DodoTheLaser

      Thank you, Karen!
      This reminds me a time when the ED of my org announced in front of all staff that I was
      looking at porn on the internet, instead (fill in the blank) being involved in clearing the planet
      or some such. I’m still not sure how looking at the boobies stops the planetary clearing. Good times…

    • Espiando

      Karen, you’ve said in the past that, as a very trusted Class XII (the last one remaining trained by LRH personally), you were responsible for some very sensitive auditing, which I presume included some very hush-hush sec checks. I’m sure you’ve had to ask some of those 2D questions during these. How uncomfortable is it for the auditor to ask those questions? Can you really achieve what the Auditors’ Code requires of you when asking questions about some of the most basic of human activities?

      I can say that I know at least a bit of what I’m asking. When in the US Army, one of my job duties was to interview soldiers and dependents who had contracted sexually transmitted diseases, and I had to ask questions about sexual history and practices. I also had to write some information down. The difference, of course, is that I was passing on that information to the public health department for record-keeping and follow-up contact, and only on their forms. I made it absolutely clear to the interviewee that no information that he or she gave me would be reported to any other party, including superiors. Since this was in the pre-Don’t Ask Don’t Tell days, if I’d broken my word, it could have meant the end of people’s careers.

      Actually, the US military is almost certainly the place where Hubbard got this from. The US Navy was infamous for conducting gay witch hunts from WWII through the end of DADT. The late Randy Shilts recorded a number of first-person experiences of these in his famous book Conduct Unbecoming. Hubbard would have simply seen sexual witch hunts as a continuation from his Navy experiences into the Sea Org.

      I guess this is why I get so disgusted with what CoS does with pre-clear folders in regard to sexual behavior. Why are my ethics better than the Most Ethical People On The Planet?

      • Interesting the connection you make with the Navy, I’ve thought many times Hubbard’s policies are an extension or corruption of naval policies. The format of the histories in this article is like a criminal police report.

  • wow …just ..wow . I don’t even fill out the “too personal” stuff at a doctors office. This is just really creepy and really weird . Peeping Tom into your sexual awakening …some sort of screwed up ” Penthouse Forum ” meets “Mind Raper ” . Do the people who consider themselves independent from the church ..but still practice scientology ..still get audited …do they have to do some watered down version of this ? Say ..a group like Marty’s ..if they get a new recruit …do they do this ? I just can’t imagine ever asking any these questions of anyone . I feel kind of gross right now …i stopped reading because i just felt like i was breaking into someones house . This is just awful.

    • SandiCorrena

      IKR – at the doctors office their forms always ask are you Married, Single, Divorced and I’m like NONE OF YOUR FREAKING BUSINESS! But if I were talking to someone I perceived to be my friend, or my therapist whom I’d PAID, I’d wouldn’t have the same knee jerk reaction-and that’s the problem isn’t it;they all start off talking to their “friend/auditor” and only later do they know their friends/auditors will drive that bus right over them.
      That’s a good question about the Indies; I wonder too.

  • Is there a good description of the “Boot Camp” associated with the Sea Org? I would be curious to know the details.

    • Ze Moo

      The boot camp for the sea arghhh is called the Estates Project Force (epf). You can find good descriptions at this site.

  • Mary_McConnell

    This is the dread of so many of us who filled those out, once we saw what a dangerous fraud Scientology really was. That these would become used against us, or made public. That others could come to know our most intimate revelations given under what we thought was protected by “Priest–penitent privilege” when it never really was. Filling out the life history form is a unique experience and one’s ‘ sex secrets’, no matter what they are, is about the most degrading experience one can have in scientology. You are not being audited. You are not even writing it while in a confessional. By the time you are at this point n the recruitment process, you are left to decide what to reveal and how to reveal it or risk not being accepted into the Sea Org. For many, it’s cathartic, knowing that you’ve ‘come clean’ on your secrets. But who would have ever thought at the time that the information would be used against one or made public? You may have modified the written documents to avoid identification but the persons who filled them out would know if they saw them as their own. How low do we go with exposing Scientology? Where is the line? Especially when such documents are the property of the church? My God!

    It makes me sick to think this cult has that information from members, that they so indifferently made us fill the forms out, and that we filled them out without a thought to what might become of them. Same with PC folders. This is why so many of us wish we had our folders back. Not that they would ever give them back, or if they did, not that they wouldn’t copy them. When Jason Beghe said ” I want my mother fucking PC folders”, I knew exactly how he felt. But stealing these documents and having them put in the news, no matter how well redacted they may be, is on the same level as the cult leaking PC confessions. I am disappointed.

    • hogarthian

      Oh dear. What a heart rending post. Posts are, by and large, impersonal, no intonation or facial expression to go by. But yours, I felt every word of that just as if you were sat next to me.

      It will come as no consolation to hear people say “but these things must be outed, for everyones benefit” – too reminiscent of being told every sacrifice you made and injustice you suffered was “for the benefit of the group”.

      I am one of those who believes, with great conviction, that the world must know. I’m just sorry that that means traumatising people, like this has obviously done you.

    • DodoTheLaser

      I respectfully disagree, Dear Mary!
      I do feel your pain though, honestly.

      Personally, I would rather have my “sexual deviance” exposed by
      Perez Hilton than scientology at this point. It’s still less pain full and can be funny.

      What Tony did today is not for humiliation or for ratings,
      but to expose another layer of scientology’s mind trap, imho.

      Peace.

      • SandiCorrena

        I agree DTL, $ci’s power partially lays in that they have been confident that they have all the secrets – this was a big crack in their facade! I bless the souls who shared with Tony because I think because it’s so repugnant that someone teetering on the edge will be pulled back. CO$ uses this stuff to blackmail, threaten, and punish; here the same info. (freely given) will probably save, spare and protect. It may also give nightmares; not gonna lie I’m a little worried about that myself.

        Mary, ((big hug)) I’m so sorry, so sorry this was so hard on you today, sorry that “church” ever put you through that and so many other things – there’s a lot of you in my heart tonight. I will never forget your words which gave us a glimpse of your pain.

        • DodoTheLaser

          Thank you, Sandi.
          I’ve learned to be humorous about myself, my shortcomings
          and became a bit wiser, I think. I’ve done some stupid things,
          but nothing criminal. All of that happened when I was in
          Scientology and never before or after. I find it interesting.

      • aquaclara

        When our friends here on the Bunker hurt, we all hurt too. Your personal reflections are incredibly moving and Important. Thank you for telling us what things have been like. We who were not in can only try every day to understand this complex sinkhole of a cult. Yet we will never get to that level of understanding in the same way as someone who has been there. All we can do to is try to listen, learn, help tell the stories, and hold your hands through the aftermath.
        I’m so sorry for your pain. This has been a tough day. The church’s exploitation and abuses are awful beyond belief. But most of all, for everyone here who has experienced this ultimate betrayal of their personal life, we will have to hope for an end to this soon, so that you can each continue to heal. Hugs from all of us here in the trenches with you.

        • DodoTheLaser

          “Your personal reflections are incredibly moving and Important.”

          Really? Why, thank you humbly, Aqua.
          It helps to know that it matters. Sometimes I don’t post for days/weeks,
          because I don’t feel it’s worth it and/or because I still blame myself..

          Perhaps, too selfish of me. I’m a work in progress. Thank you.

          • aquaclara

            Thank you. 🙂

            • DodoTheLaser

              Sure. Thank you, really. 🙂

      • FistOfXenu

        You were “with” Perez Hilton? We’re listening..

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Mary, I am so sorry. Reading this post just makes my heart hurt.
      I am just so sorry.

  • DodoTheLaser

    Tony, this blog post generates so much attention, rightly so, I suggest you beef up your server.

    We had one glitch already today. Hopefully Disqus will keep up with all the posts too.

    Oh, and thank you, Tony!

  • oh – and on question #77 they misspelled masturbation ….classic

  • dwayners13

    You have to admit, for a church, Scientology makes a great business. The idea that the church gets to decide if they should return your money is a good way to ensure they never have to. I realize that the decision is up to 3 members ‘in good standing’, but based on the church’s history, it’s not in their best interest to make a decision that goes against the church. Just imagine their next sec. check & ethics handlings/conditions that would await the members who decide that the church should refund the money.

  • Captain Howdy
    • 1subgenius

      I saw John Cale with that band he was with….what was its name….oh yeah, The Velvet Underground.
      I have never met anyone else who saw VU.

      • Are_sics

        They all started bands…
        I missed them. Just slightly before my time. Mr. Cale in particular though I have seen. Good call — he’s done the best work since VU, too, I think.

      • FistOfXenu

        Aaaaand now you have. Lived in the Village a few years on and off, 65-69. Nico was hot! 🙂 I was too young and in awe to talk to her.

  • N. Graham

    Calling something similar to Scientology is now an act of derision:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-s-lofgren/scientology-for-rednecks_b_2707087.html

    • Heroder

      The abuses of scientiology are common knowledge at this point…

      It has reached the tipping point where even militant atheists must be honest and admit how awful this cult really is

      • Are_sics

        I assure you, at least I and my particular large clique of militant atheists have long admitted how awful this cult really is. It’s the kind of realization that reaches across many party lines.

      • you’d think…..

  • Captain Howdy

    Trust me, this will help you understated scientology

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nhk96KX6I6I

  • This shows what a sick person LRH was as his so called “church” has become a voyeuristic cult as shown with their obsession with this kind of stuff.

  • sizzle8

    The “Life History” was not much in existence prior to the mid 1980’s.

    The Guardians Office had the most rigorous background checks prior to that.

    Then the Sea Org started using them and eventually lower orgs used them for executive postings.

    Not sure who pushed for them in the 80’s.

  • Chattan

    I don’t ever recall reading about allegations that LRH molested the young girls he had access to. Given Co$ obsession with sex it’s a wonder to think that could be true.

    • FistOfXenu

      Also given his history of wanting to be a stud and going off with other peoples wives.

    • whingeybingey

      Somebody said they found him with a young boy once. I forget who, though.

  • Whilst Tony’s post today is amazing it was the Tom Cruise ‘wannabe booze stealing priest of very little brain’ story that hit the net when it comes to google scientology searches.

    Isn’t it about time that Tony’s stories at least appear in Google news alerts? … or to put it another way – I think that the OSA Ronbots are actively paying some sleazy tech heads to affect his Google ranking. Whilst I consider myself a bit of a geek I’m not savvy enough to understand how the google algorithms can be affected by ‘the man on the street’ but I HAVE seen this happen in real time. My step brother is a lot more knowledgeable about this and, well…. without going into to detail he has shown me manipulation of search results. I personally witnessed a google search result show a company as one of the top 3 choices on “both sides” of the google search page for a generic [local] company that had only created a web page 24 hours earlier. He told me that there are bunches of guys in Eastern Europe who specialise in doing this… they’re off radar but are easy to find if you know the right people. I can double confirm this as I saw it happen first hand in the UK. [It’s very popular with sub contractor specialists who want to be first in search results for “local plumbers” type thing.

    I guess what I’m saying is that I would bet a pound to a dollar that scientology money is being payed to keep Tony OFF scientology search results.

    Whilst the Daily Mail has gone all chickenshit about posting comments which they consider libellous re Cruise etc the ones they do keep up are pretty funny…. have definitely noticed Tommy Girl is becoming more and more a laughing stock.

    Radar, however, did post my comment…. here’s my response to someone trying to defend Tommy’s 110 IQ:

    I scored 138 when I was 12 years old [did a Mensa about 12 years ago on the internet and was told I was above 170… they bugged me for ages to join] …. it’s pretty much well known that he isn’t the brightest spark in the box [same as Travolta]… a big appeal of scientology was their “guaranteed” increase in your IQ crap spiel they cling to to this day. [aka a sucker is born every minute approach]. An abusive father, a chip on his shoulder when he was a kid compounded by how society regarded dyslexia back then, marriage to a much older woman…. who then introduced him to a cult! … No wonder he’s turned out the way he has. Truth is his handling by the current sociopathic leader of his cult this past couple of decades has turned him into an insufferable douche of world class proportions… he will live and die by the cult…. and it don’t look good.

    Travolta, on the other hand, still has enough goodwill garnered by the public to come out of this unscathed if he does the right thing and leave. Cruise….well, he’s just too far gone!

    • … and on a side note Tony it might be worthwhile to pay a couple of bucks to web analysis companies and ask them to put you into comparison tables/graphs or whatever they hell they do; the reason being is that I haven’t come across any site on the net that gets as many comments on a daily basis as yours does…. and I’m talking huge media sites… CNN [15 comments and counting – Jenna Miscavige]… Radar a couple of dozen, Daily Mail – hardly ever hits 3 figures. Not only that but the vast, vast majority of your comments are proper English, understandable and, in most cases, properly spelt.

      In devils advocate role can anybody point me to a site that gets over a hundred comments a day on a single news story…. anyone? ….. anyone?

      • Huffington Post can rack up thousands of posts when a story hits a nerve.

        • fair enough… [but only the US version….UK site is minuscule in comment comparison]… so, lets try that again but this time EXCLUDE the Huff

    • Hartley Patterson

      Google News doesn’t include single issue blogs such as this one, company PR pages, etc and attempts to stick to genuine news websites. I assume you are unaware of “Citizens” websites that attempt to get round this by publishing unsolicited articles with long legal disclaimers saying they are not responsible for content. The cult and indeed some critics use them! Google after complaints blacklists them for News,
      So no conspiracy here, just Google trying to give its users what they want.

    • ParticleMom

      I agree. Tony might just be too busy to worry about his SEO. As you point out, his blog is very popular on its own. I’ve often wished I could get my hands on his analytics and optimize the keywords, etc. I am an online marketing specialist and live for that stuff.

  • DodoTheLaser

    This blog post is so out of control. HCO Bring The Order!

  • Artoo45

    What a devastating gut punch today’s post was. Just when I think I’ve seen it all, there’s another layer of awful to Scientology’s rotten onion. These are heartbreaking documents which reveal the depths to which Hubbard and Cº. are willing to sink in order to control their slaves. Taking human sexuality and making it dirty, making it wrong is another example of Hubbard’s own internal, tortured, sexual horroshow projected outward on Scientologists and Sea Org members through “tech.” It makes me simultaneously sad and angry. I get how revealing these would trigger some of those who live in terror that their innocent, totally normal sexual quirks will be used against them. But know this, these are powerful, incriminating documents—incriminating of the cult, not those who wrote them under extreme duress. This is abuse, plain and simple and it must be revealed. To the tens of thousands of readers of Going Clear and Beyond Belief and other recent books on Scientology, these documents are more proof that what they just read, fantastic as it may sound, really is the truth about the cult. To me, as a critic who has gotten a bit complacent with all the wonderful media entheta, and jaded by revelations I’ve already seen, they’re flaming jet fuel. Our job as critics of this “church” is far from over, not until even the free are really free.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Amen Artoo!

  • sugarplumfairy

    Ok, I’m beginning to understand why MidwestMom got so upset with us.. The Catholic bashing is beginning to get to me, and I’m a just-barely-practicing Catholic.. I guess I can’t really complain too much, since a day doesn’t go by that I miss an opportunity to bash co$.. I’ll console myself on that count by remembering that co$ isn’t a religion as much as an evil, slave-producing, money-making international scam..

    Anyway, I grew up around some truly wonderful people who dedicated their lives to something good.. Not every priest is a pedophile and not every nun is a sadist.. I loved some of my teachers and I have incredibly good childhood memories of May processions and Christmas Eve midnight masses and Good Friday Passion plays.. You folks are actually making me want to go back to church.. Maybe I should throw away all these KRs I was writing up on you and instead, thank you..

    • Are_sics

      Yes the Catholic bashing is ridiculous. And there’s some ridiculous atheist bashing, too. I don’t get it.

      • sugarplumfairy

        Live and let live.. And hold the bad guys accountable..

        • Are_sics

          Bad guys, bad behaviors, bad parts of institutions…. yes. No free passes, I understand. But bashing is contrary to building the coalitions and community that are necessary in order to demand accountability. I’m with you.

    • whingeybingey

      I would just like to share with you sugarplumfairy that the Catholic Church once helped me through a very great sadness. When I received the Sacrament of Reconciliation it was the most beautiful thing and a great personal relief. I was doing a Cursillo program at the time – Rachael’s Vineyard – as a support person for somebody dear that was grieving about an abortion. At the same time I felt the most wonderful emotional healing for a miscarriage I’d suffered. I cannot speak highly enough of the priests and beautiful Catholic women involved in that journey.

      • sugarplumfairy

        That’s nice to hear, Whingwy.. Hope things are better now..

        • whingeybingey

          Yes, I’m fine with it now. It was really nice because I got to name my baby and all that sort of stuff and feel like we spent time together. Then I kind of had to let go. That was hard. I felt like the mother of Moses putting my baby in that big river in a little basket and just crossing my fingers you know, and having to let go. It really hurt, but it was easier for me because I didn’t have the guilt to deal with as well. It was devastating sharing everyone’s pain but it made us really close – all our different stories. It was a very special time.

    • 1subgenius

      Maybe some comfort and inspiration should be taken considering what the early martyrs went through.
      Internet trolling and bashing pales in comparison.

      • sugarplumfairy

        Ya think? C’mere so I can smack you..

    • Sherbet

      Thank you for this post, sugarplum. I’m a practicing Catholic, and I try to be open minded and let everyone offer their own opinions, but I get tired of the “yeah, and it’s just like the Catholic church…” etc. etc. For the record, I also get tired of “yeah, and it’s just like the Mormon church…” and all the other bashing of various creeds. I understand that people see parallels, and I don’t believe in gagging anyone’s free speech here. I have a close family member who’s an atheist, and I respect that, too. But the comparisons with other religions here do get tiresome, because, no matter what, scientology is NOT JUST LIKE anything else, and anyone who believes that hasn’t been paying attention. As I said yesterday, it’s like throwing all babies out with cos’s polluted bathwater.

      • Trustmeonthis

        Every big religion has polluted bathwater. There’s no getting around it. That doesn’t make you personally responsible for it, but it is the truth. The $cilons are so much worse than everyone else, but that doesn’t discount what the others are doing in the name of religion. You have to be more granular than that. Bad people are bad. Assholes are everywhere. You can’t judge based on things like religion.

        • Sherbet

          I agree, Trustme. One needs only to look at the headlines about my religion. Although Tony draws no boundaries for what can be discussed here (and rightly so!), we’re really not here for a religious forum. We’re here, because scn is evil.

    • Anonymookme

      Bravo SPF! I’m also a barely practicing Catholic but the comparison’s between COS & the CC is enough to make my head explode. There IS NO comparison. Confession in the CC is purely voluntary, there are no files kept on people, there is no fee paid for the sacrement of reconcillation, there is no disconnection policy in the CC, one can contribute to the CC or not, no one is turned away from Mass for the inability to contribute. Catholic school is an option for Catholics, not a mandate, I can sit down with my priest & Jesuit friends, complain loudly and for a very long time about the corruption in the Catholic Church and not be “fair gamed” or whatever the hell the Scibots call it. My criticism of the Catholic Church and their handling of the pedohpile scandal does not make me a “bad” catholic in the opinion of the church hierarchy. Catholics don’t have to agree with every policy and every decision of the CC in order to be a part of the Catholic community.
      The Catholic bashing gets old because it really is apples to oranges. I come from a very large Irish, Catholic family. Some of my siblings are practicing catholics, some, like me, barely practicing, some not at all. Guess what? No one gives a crap! My siblings who are practicing don’t give a rats ass whether or not I am and would no more “disconnect” from me than they would grow a third eye.
      Me & my siblings were educated K-12 in Catholic schools, I have 8 children and they were all educated K-12 Catholic schools as well. A decision I have never regretted. 13 grandkids, some in Catholic schools, some not, all fine with me.
      To compare the CC to the COS is a joke. The Catholic church has done more for the poor & the hungry than any other main stream religion.

    • Trustmeonthis

      IMHO, the Mormons have a lot more to worry about than the Catholics.
      But I also want to say that the good things about most of these religions are all about connecting with family/other people/one’s concept of the divine. No one has the market cornered on any of that, and power seems to corrupt equally across faith lines.
      I believe (heh) that the Mormons (especially the freaky ones) are down on their knees every single day praying that $cientology will survive to see another sunrise. Because you know they are next.
      In case you are looking for another rabbit hole 😉 the book Secrets and Wives by Sanjay Bhattacharya is a fascinating look at the subculture.

    • CraftLass

      I’m sorry, I’ll admit, I do some CC-bashing, based on my own experiences growing up in it. But I’m also the first to defend it on some issues (to use your example, the vast majority of priests are NOT pedophiles, place the blame where it belongs, with the actual perpetrators and the higher-ups who protected them, not the average parish priest who works very hard to do good for not much reward). All religions have problems and skeletons piled in the closet. So do pretty much all human organizations, because there is no such thing as an infallible human and power is quite the drug for many who find it within any group.

      All the priests and nuns I have known have been genuinely working for the good of all, especially the nuns (with one exception of a psychologically abusive teacher in elementary school). I was adopted through Catholic Charities and the nuns who cared for me for my first four days of life were so kind that they sent notes and little gifts with my parents to give me when I was older and I’ve been told some of them even checked up on me over the years. They knew me for four days! That’s kindness and genuine caring.

      Honestly, I have massive issues with the Vatican, but so do most practicing Catholics I know. The most important difference between Catholicism and groups like Scn is that, in most parishes, Catholics are not threatened, investigated, kicked out, or disallowed to talk to family members just because they disagree with the Pope. The Inquisition was a long damn time ago! There is a movement growing in some to actually do that (like this story about a priest denying Confirmation to a teen who supports gay marriage: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2012/11/16/if-only-the-catholic-church-would-reject-all-the-kids-who-supported-gay-marriage/ ), but that’s pretty fringey. If the CC required absolute adherence to everything (like Scn does) the whole church would have collapsed in the last century. I was pretty straight-up about questioning my faith and was still pushed to do all the sacraments in hopes that the process would bring me back to the fold. My favorite priest told me, “Faith without question is no faith at all. The only true faith is one developed through asking such questions, exploring all options, and finding answers for yourself.” Yeah, there are some seriously cool people in the clergy, not just abusers.

      Also, I’m totally with you on fond memories, in fact, I wrote a post that touches on it awhile ago, if you are interested: http://craftlass.wordpress.com/2012/10/24/an-atheist-hears-the-angels-sing/

      Again, I’m extremely sorry if I was one of the offenders, I truly have nothing against anyone due to their beliefs. I take issue with people who use their power to hurt or dismiss people, no matter what guise it is under or who that person is. My only real problem with religion in general is that it often creates cliques that think and act like they are better than others, which is the source of a lot of societal problems. I’m an atheist, but I also hate how many respected atheists do the EXACT SAME THING. Let’s all grow up, get out of the middle school cafeteria, and judge people as individuals, not by labels.

      • sugarplumfairy

        Craftlass, you didn’t offend me, my dear.. I enjoyed your comments and I was just mouthing off.. I wouldn’t change anybody here.. Ok, that’s not true, but you def aren’t anybody I would change if I could.. I truly do appreciate that we all get to say what we want.. That’s why we love it here.. and I’m sooo glad you’re back..

        • CraftLass

          Oh, good! My mouth… err… fingers get me into trouble fairly often. lol Thanks, it’s so good to be back!

  • theoracle

    Geeze Christ I never realized what a square I was.

  • theoracle

    Kind of curious, are these folders or reports that “accidently” leaked, on “bitter defrocked appostates”? This is a class action law suit. If anyone here is reading their own application which has dribbled onto the net, call an attorney. I never realized how sick this corporation was until today. I think there is some kind of unidentified mental disorder on a person obsessed with knowing what is going on in other people’s bedrooms and policing it. I am kind of sick with people insisting that I know who they are f*^($g and why. I am only interested in what goes on my bedroom. I could care less what is going on in other people’s bedroom and who/what they are snuggling with. Really. In the long run it will be identified as a mental disorder. Obsessed with knowing other people’s personal habits that arise as a dysfunction. Some kind of offbeat form of voyeurism. Who is the victim of some guy sitting in his living room masturbating? Will the victim stand forward in this criminal claim? For real? I mean, how does this even register as an overt / with hold? Your “with holds” depend on where you are. Did you ever think about that? If you are standing in the Church of Scientology, you will read on different with holds than if you are standing in the Church of Mohammed blady bla. What will read as an overt/ with hold in the C of S, will not read as an overt in a strip club in Chicago. It’s all relative. Just because you wouldn’t want some one in the C of S to know something, doesn’t mean you would not be safe in some other space, to mention it. So it is not a with hold! What does that tell you? People have with holds in the CofS to the extent the people around them will not make them feel safe! So who has the real problem there? The P.C., or the judgmental culture?

  • SP ‘Onage

    I am really surprised scientology hasn’t started a sex addiction rehab front group. It seems to be “in” right now. Dr Drew needs some competition. Celebrities and sex addiction is right up their ally. Could be another lucrative scam for them.

    I can see the stats now. 70 % guarantee you’ll be too scared to “bust another nut.”

    Scientology’s next campaign should be, clearing the planet of prOn and hairy palms.

    You just know they have a video of your brain on porn explaining the negative effects it can have on you.

  • Jgg2012

    Actually, LRH invented gossip.

    • FistOfXenu

      Not so much, I think he just monetized it when he turned it into ethics money: “go$$ip”

  • BuryTheNuts2

    Awh Fist……Uknw

  • GentlemanSlut

    If fingerbanging a guinea pig is wrong, I don’t want to be right.

  • Great, now I’m all horny. LOL. What’s fascinating about this is that they are giving this information to organized crime gangsters that they bloody well know are going to use it against them.

  • Makes me want to hurl. But in the words of Alvy Singer (Woodie Allen),”Hey, don’t knock masturbation. It’s sex with someone I love.”

  • Roger Larsson

    What gives Mother Earth eruptions and quakes?

    What a vibrators head can’t do a vibrators heart takes care of and with the eternal battery keeping Xenu trapped inside a forcefield her happiness goes on and on and on until all her pressure is exhausted

    Who joins scientology in purpose to go clear and OT? People join scientology in purpose to clear the planet and to make Mother Earth to an OT.

    A Mother Earth exteriorizing from the mud finds out she’s not a planet. A clear planet is a Mother Earth going OT, Out of Teegeack?

    Instead of having the planet in $cientology’s control the Earth Mother has $cientology in her control.

  • Karen Eckhoff

    I’ve read about the sexual histories in many articles, but this is the first I’m reading about the suppression of masturbation, anal sex, homosexuality, or apparently anything not strictly straight and vanilla. I would encourage anyone to share what these “handlings” about sexual transgressions entailed.

  • JeffCigar

    Why are you freaks getting off on this? Pedophiles? Wow, Fat Tony is desperate.