Featured Post

HOW SCIENTOLOGY COERCED A CHILD TO HAVE AN ABORTION: THE LAURA DECRESCENZO FILES

HOW SCIENTOLOGY COERCED A CHILD TO HAVE AN ABORTION: THE LAURA DECRESCENZO FILES

—————- In anticipation of her biggest day in court yet, Laura DeCrescenzo and her attorneys hit the Church of Scientology with 928 pages of new filings —————- Details from 18,000 pages of evidence show how Scientology manipulated a child to keep her working under slave-like conditions —————- A key document describing DeCrescenzo’s unwillingness to have her coerced abortion is missing from the evidence Scientology was ordered to produce By Tony Ortega Wednesday afternoon, Laura DeCrescenzo filed explosive new information in her four-year legal odyssey against the Church of Scientology, submitting 928 pages of new declarations and exhibits in anticipation of a crucial October 23 hearing in her lawsuit against the church which alleges abuse, including allegations that she was forced to have an abortion at only 17 years of age. Key to the new filings is information gleaned from thousands of pages of previously secret files that the church fought mightily to keep under wraps. But on Monday, the U.

Share Button

Facebook

Subscribe to our e-mail list

Jon Atack: Do Scientology’s training routines turn you into a sociopath?

Jack_NicholsonJon Atack is the author of A Piece of Blue Sky, one of the very best books on L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology. He has a new edition of the book for sale, and on Saturdays he’s helping us sift through the legends, myths, and contested facts about Scientology that tend to get hashed and rehashed in books, articles, and especially on the Internet.

Jon, last week’s piece about Scientology’s thousand-yard stare really kicked up some great comments. You wanted to address something that came up in that conversation?

JON: It was very gratifiying to see a debate following one of my posts. When it came to last week’s TR-0 piece (which I called “Confront versus compassion” when I sent it to Tony), I was extremely gratified. My smug little ego swelled noticeably for several seconds.

Michael Leonard Tilse makes the extraordinarily valid point that TR-0 made him feel like a sociopath. And feeling comes just before acting like a sociopath, something that we have all witnessed in Scientology on a fairly regular basis. In the background to my various posts, I’ve been working on a paper about recovery. I came back to the fray, because I was startled at how many people simply stick in the Scientology valence (if you’ll excuse me for using one of the many redefinitions that Hubbard adopted and abandoned along the way).

Psychiatrist and staunch Hubbard critic Dr Louis Jolyon West wrote about ‘pseudo-identities,’ and my other good friend, Steve Hassan, explains the creation of a new identity in the cult member in his seminal Combatting Cult Mind Control (and pick up his more recent Freedom of Mind). Back in the days when I exit-counselled Scientologists, I was surprised to see just how individuals shifted in personality during an intervention, as they moved away from the implanted Scientology pseudo-identity. One young graduate exclaimed that his skin had turned from grey back to a healthy pink the day after the intervention, and this is not an unusual experience, when the conditioning lifts and the pseudo-identity is reintegrated into the complete personality.

In an insightful study, Dr. Flavil Yeakley showed that members of the Boston Church of Christ differed markedly from members of other Christian congregations in that members of the BCC exhibited very similar, group-specific personalities. So, where all sixteen personality types (in the Myers-Briggs system) were found in other Christian groups, all members of the Boston Church of Christ shared very similar profiles. Yeakley called this effect ‘cloning’.

A perverse aspect of this process is that the members become more like the cult’s creator. Hubbard fits the profile of a narcissistic sociopath (for that matter, so do most leaders of dangerous cults, but they wouldn’t be dangerous otherwise). His narcissism is readily demonstrated: He left $648 million, all of it collected from Scientology, yet complained that money was being wasted on toilet tissue for Sea Org staff. While he lived in opulent luxury, with Savile Row shirts and a 2,000-piece camera collection, along with a collection of black swans, bulls and his own race track, Sea Org members live in abject poverty, as they have since the inception of this slave force.

And, as the various commentators on the blog say, Scientology leads to dissociation from normal behaviour. Scientologists become pushy, confrontational and generally odious, especially those involved in the ‘elite’ Sea Org. This behaviour is a consequence of Scientology. Members are ‘indoctrinated’ and ‘processed’, to use Hubbard’s own ironic expressions.

The TRs convey some of the benefits of meditation. I learned Zen meditation — zazen — in a monastery before I met Scientology, so I knew that TR-0 was no more than a method of meditation. In the Indian tradition, when two people contemplate each other, it is called tratak (which I realize might be rendered TR-Atack. I must trademark it, immediately!). To suggest that TRs might be employed in a non-coercive environment is simply to say that meditation can be useful.

ScientologyMythbustingI do have one friend who has spent decades ruing the day that he did TR-0 Bullbait, because the dissociation from emotional reaction became fixed. While this is helpful in confrontational situations, it has left him emotionally bereft, and robbed him of a normal emotional life. So, I would caution against the use of powerful hypnotic techniques, without an equally powerful understanding of hypnosis. I would also urge an understanding of hypnosis from the outside, rather than plunging into Neuro-Linguistic Programing, and allowing another pseudo-identity to be created.

Dr Milton Erickson remains the fount of hypnotic wisdom, rather than the many texts on parlour hypnosis which gave hypnosis such a bad name (though the books recommended by Hubbard are revealing, especially Wolfe and Rosenthal’s Hypnotism Comes of Age. I cannot overstate the importance of the material in my own ancient paper “Never Believe a Hypnotist,” which finally showed me the profound significance of hypnosis to any understanding of Scientology.

The heightened perception of meditative states is an ‘altered state’ as one commentator says. Such states are jibed about in The Book of E-Meter Drills, where the ‘preclear originations’ list has many commonplace statements by the subjects of hypnosis. Hubbard was well aware of this, because, as he often boasted, he was a highly experienced hypnotist (he lists it as his main hobby on the dustcover of his novel Triton, for instance). ‘The colors in the room are brighter’; ‘I feel like I’m floating’; ‘the room feels bigger’ – these are all statements of the distorted perception brought on by hypnoid states, and experienced by preclears.

The only topic where I tend to agree with Hubbard is hypnosis. However, as his own explanations prove, Dianetics and Scientology are actually forms of hypnosis. As he said, hypnosis “reduces self-determinism by interposing the commands of another below the analytical level of an individual’s mind … It is the sort of control mechanism in which an authoritarian individual, cult, or ideology delight. People who indulge in hypnotism may, only very occasionally, be interested in experimentation upon the human mind … Genuine experimental hypnotism, strictly in the laboratory and never in the parlour, and done wholly in the knowledge that one is reducing the efficiency of the human being on whom one is experimenting and may do him permanent damage, and the use of hypnotism by a surgeon … should end the extension of hypnotism into the society. Submission to being hypnotized is analogous to being raped, with the exception that the individual can, generally, recover from being raped. To any clear-thinking human who believes in the value of people as human beings, there is something gruesomely obscene about hypnotism. The interjection of unseen controls below the level of consciousness cannot benefit but can only pervert the mind … The individual who would permit himself to be hypnotized is, frankly, a fool … It was thought by hypnotists that the mere remembering of … suggestions would relieve them, and that the power of the suggestion died out with time. These two ideas do not happen to be true.” (Science of Survival, Book II, p.220f; see also pp.225f).

Curiously, this is where Hubbard cancelled the original ‘Book One’ technique: “a pre-clear after he closes his eyes will begin to flutter his eyelids. This a symptom of the very lightest level of hypnotic trance.” (Science of Survival, Book II, p.227). This admitted hypnotic technique was reintroduced (flickering eyelids and all) with the Book One course, in the late 1970s (“When the preclear’s eyes close and you notice his eyelids flicker, finish counting…”). I’m sticking with Hubbard’s protestation that hypnosis can be very dangerous and should be used with tremendous caution.

It is surprising that so few Dev-OTs take Hubbard’s instruction about hypnosis. The auditor “must be prepared to use hypnotism, he must know how it works, what he should do to make it function, how to regress a person in hypnotism and so on…” (Research & Discovery volume 1, p.307, original, uncensored version).

My favourite Hubbard statement about hypnosis is this (see if you can apply it to Hubbard, just for fun): “In altitude teaching, somebody is a ‘great authority.’ He is probably teaching some subject that is far more complex than it should be. He has become defensive down through the years, and this is a sort of protective coating that he puts up, along with the idea that the subject will always be a little better known by him than by anybody else and that there are things to know in this subject which he really wouldn’t let anybody else in on. This is altitude instruction.” Hubbard adds that “Any time anybody gets enough altitude he can be called a hypnotic operator, and what he says will act as hypnotic suggestion. Hypnotism is a difference in levels of altitude.” (Research & Discovery volume 4, p.324, original, uncensored edition) And this is exactly how Hubbard’s teachings are accepted without proper scrutiny, because his claims of expertise and authority are not questioned. Given his many failings as a human being, this is quite startling.

The upside of TRs can be a moment of clarity, and a possible release of anxiety and inhibition. The downside is the loss of individuality and a new openness to suggestions from Hubbard. TR-0 is often the first step in a process that will induce sociopathic unconcern. Perhaps the most important element of this systematic exploitative persuasion is the erosion of compassion. Scientology is to “make the able more able,” so ignores anyone who is disabled, whether physically or mentally (unless there is some PR benefit to the cult, of course, as with the charm of any calculating sociopath). They are ‘victims’ who have ‘pulled it in,’ so are not worthy of help. At worst, they are ‘degraded beings.’ So, where decent religion speaks of compassion and charity, Scientology aims at grabbing the most it can get from its members, and giving nothing without ‘exchange’ (“If I have not charity, I am nothing” according to St Paul. “Free service, free fall” according to Hubbard).

Compassion is not a term used in Scientology (my paper, “Scientology: The Church of Hate” has plenty of material about this). Instead, we have the anodyne term ‘affinity’, which is simply attraction with love carefully excluded. Sympathy, which is synonymous with compassion, is to be avoided, at all costs. Indeed, Hubbard mistakenly terms it an emotion, and sticks it at a low point on his ‘tone scale.’ Scientologists are taught to have ‘no sympathy’ with the injured, which is to say, against the tenets of every significant religion and humanistic philosophy, that compassion is outlawed. And this is exactly the sociopathic state that TR-0 can and often does induce. One second generation member recently told me that as a child she was given a stony stare if she hurt herself, because ‘no sympathy’ is supposedly helpful. How utterly cruel!

At the end of the spectrum of thought reform, as described by Robert Jay Lifton, comes ‘dispensing of existence.’ When the individual becomes so taken up be a belief system, opponents are seen as vermin (‘squirrels’ in Hubspeak) to be disposed of. Their humanity is denied. A former Investigation Aide at OSA told me, just yesterday, that I was subjected to more harassment than any other non-US critic, so I know very well that ‘dispensing of existence’ is an essential aspect of the Tech. Until your mirror neurons are readjusted, and you can use the word ‘victim’ with kindness, instead of contempt, you should be very worried that you have been robbed of your own humanity and that a pseudo-identity (or ‘valence’) has been grafted onto your existing personality. Of course, if such an identity had been grafted onto you, there would be absolutely no way of knowing. And, thanks to all who contributed, again for showing that we ex-members can sometimes think our way out of the bag!

 
——————–

SAGE the Scientology superhero!

Angry Gay Pope sent us a great item last night. He and Karen de la Carriere have been talking to Ginger Sugerman for an upcoming video, and Ginger was sharing stories about her mother, Barbara Ayash, who founded a Scientology front group, the Concerned Businessmen’s Association of America. The CBAA promoted the heck out of L. Ron Hubbard’s slim little 1981 volume of pilfered bromides, The Way to Happiness.

Barbara even created a comic book in 1986 to promote the booklet. It starred the superhero “SAGE,” which stood for “set a good example.” How wholesome!

As Pope explains, “Media the church creates is funny enough, even though it’s overslick and overdone. But media the members of Scientology create is funny because it’s often so pathetic. This is one of those things.”

SAGE: A Scientology comic book

 
We can hardly wait for your close readings of this important historical artifact.

 
——————–

Carla Moxon saves the world!

Wow, we’re grateful to our old friend Jeff Jacobsen for spotting this little gem. It’s Carla Moxon, wife of Scientology lawyer Kendrick Moxon. Both of them were members of Scientology’s original intelligence corps, the Guardian’s Office, and were both named unindicted co-conspirators in “Operation Snow White,” Scientology’s infiltration of federal offices between 1973 and 1977 which ended up in criminal convictions for eleven top church officials. Carla has apparently been hanging out with the Toastmasters in Hollywood, and last year told this amazing tale about, well, we’ll let her explain…

 

 
 
Finally, we’ve been so busy this week we somehow forgot to commemorate yesterday as 28 years since the day L. Ron Hubbard decided to drop his body and continue his “researches,” as David Miscavige put it a few days later at the Hollywood Palladium. We recently found this scandalous annotated version of that event, and all we can say about the subtitles put on that video is that the person who made it in 2009 was a very naughty genius.

Hip, hip, hooray!

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on January 25, 2014 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

 

Share Button
  • 3feetback-of-COS

    Its been around 30 – 40 years since, but as I recall, the idea for OT-TR-0 and TR-0 was essentially to be there.

    As part of auditor training, my interpretation of the drill was to be able to keep my attention focused on the present time (as when one was listening to a pre-clear), for considerable periods of time. Actually to be able to control one’s attention and stay focused in the present moment when needed is a handy skill.

    The hard parts for me were to A) not get sleepy or groggy and B) keeping my mind from wandering on to various thoughts and issues. Maybe it was the zeitgeist or spirit of the times and I remember folks getting all mystical and spiritual about it. I remember thinking that others were reading something more into it, but I didn’t see it that way. Maybe I was missing something?

    Just my 2 cents.

    • Graham

      I had similar experiences when attending an ordinary meditation group. As far as I was concerned it was about being able to stay in the present moment and train myself not to get ‘hooked’ by passing thoughts. But others in the group were getting all ‘mystical and spiritual’ about it. A few even went off and formed a sub-group to see if they could open themselves to ‘messages from beyond’. I read a good book on meditation which actually warned that seemingly mystical phenomena might come up, but they were to be ignored as irrelevant and merely a distraction.

      As you say, maybe it was the spirit of the times. This was back in the 80s.

      • 3feetback-of-COS

        I was at the ASHO in L.A. in the early ’70s.

  • 3feetback-of-COS

    As usual, Atack’s analysis of the Scientology valence, and the subtle hypnotism is fascinating.

    I think it will help me shake the last subtle vestiges of the cult out of my head, which I’ve been trying to do for years.

    I would be very interested in Jon’s paper on recovery.

  • Free Minds, Free Hearts

    Carla Moxon. Wow. Just wow. What a video.

  • nottrue

    Hey Carla was Timothy there

    • Observer

      Just his head.

  • D.Y.G.

    I can’t take any speechifying seriously when the speaker is wearing flipflops.

  • Michael Leonard Tilse

    Hey, I coined a word today: The “hallucisphere (TM)” that woo-woo cloud of OT ‘wins’, conspiracy theory and whole track memory rumor line that binds active scientologists into a self-congratulating club of we-know-it-alls.

    • 3feetback-of-COS

      Thats a good one. I like it!

    • Snippy_X

      And thus, Jan 25, 2014 marks the birth of the field of hallucinospherology, which ultimately culminates in mankind’s total understanding of the human condition. Congratulations MLT. This is a great service you have provided. Naming demons prevents them from controlling us!

      test hallucisphere TM

      • Michael Leonard Tilse

        See… There you go. Already diluting my brand. It’s “hallucisphere (TM)” not hallucinospherology which is not only misspelled but you tacked on ‘ology’ too.

        What we have here is a failure to duplicate.

        The hallucisphere (TM) is the cloud of delusion and woo-woo shared by the inculcated cult members of hubbard’s dianetics and scientology creation among themselves to reinforce their self-importance, appear in-the-know and establish themselves as one of the pack. It’s better than sniffing each other’s asses and a secret handshake.

        Study of it would be, rightly, an academic subject only engaged in at University and rightly referred to as hallucisphere (TM) studies.

        I appreciate your contribution and accolades. I have a paypal account if you would kindly contribute to the hallucisphere (TM) Foundation. I just want to protect my turf, you understand.

        • Captain Howdy

          “What we have here is a failure to duplicate.”

          Ha, Ha..Strother Martin is rolling in his grave

          You need to git your reactive mind right!

        • Snippy_X

          I stand corrected. Sincere apologies for carelessly diluting your brand, sir. I would hate to, in any way, diminish the good works of the hallucisphere (TM) Foundation.

          • Michael Leonard Tilse

            Thank you Sir. I’m sure you meant no harm. Apology accepted. Now would you like the lifetime membership or would one of the advanced status levels stroke your ego better?

            The Hallucisphere (TM) Foundation – “Bringing Scientific understanding to the misunderstandings of scientology.”

            • Snippy_X

              Gee, I’m right in the middle of a family get together. Today is a special day too. We’re here with all the grandkids watching the Manchurian Candidate, so I’ll have to back to you a little later on that one MLT. Thx, tho.

          • Michael Leonard Tilse

            Thank you so much for this contribution to the world of Hallucisphere™© science.

            I hereby award you the title of “Fellow of The Hallucisphere™&copy Foundation.

            • Snippy_X

              Oh my goodness, what an honor. I swear I can feel my eyes glazing over! Thank you!!!!!!

        • Espiando

          It can’t be better than sniffing each others’ asses and a secret handshake. Those two actions, of course, were pioneered by Teh Ghey Communal-munity, except that we call them “rimjobs” and “fisting”. Both are signs of the closest Affinity, Reality, and Communication that exist, and Scientology can only dream of the wins you can get on them.

          Competition for the other brand? No, not at all. Both can exist in harmony. Too bad that Scientologists can’t see beyond the 1.1 to try to get them to exist in unison.

          • Michael Leonard Tilse

            Everyone is entitled to their own private idiom. Respect.

        • 3feetback-of-COS

          I guess that makes you M. Leonard Tilse, Founder.

          • Michael Leonard Tilse

            M. Leonard Tilse Phd. Hallucisphere™&copy Studies, Founder The Hallucisphere™&copy Foundation

            • Ardent

              Hilarious! Thanks for the morning’s best chuckle, Dr.Tilse, sir!

            • Espiando

              The only question I have is this: Does the Hallucisphere fit inside the Time Cube, or does the Time Cube fit inside of it? Or both at the same time?

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              The Hallucisphere™© and the Time Cube are congruent at all points in n-space.

            • kemist

              Where does the Halluscisphere fit on the Time Cube scale ?

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              Anywhere you want.

        • Priscilla

          … at university and only at the doctoral or postdoctoral level.

        • Betsy

          Wasn’t there a department of Hallucispheric(little TM thingy) Studies at Sequoia University?

  • OTVIIIisGrrr8!
  • IBBy

    thank you, Mrs. Moxon, for giving me something crazier to listen too when im feeling nutters

  • BosonStark

    So, I guess Carla was just making up a story as an exercise for her clam/Toastmasters club. Still funny, because it sounds like Hubbard anyway, or the thing one of his OT followers might claim.

  • Science Doc

    The Carla Moxon story is seriously delusional. If they were on the west coast it was 3:18 AM at 6:18 in DC. I don’t think they mentioned the apparent elevation of the light relative to the horizon, but if they saw it clearly we can assume 20 degrees or higher. I’m in no mood to work through the geometry now, but this thing was quite a few thousand miles up if it was nominally over DC and visible on the west coast, where it’s destruction occurred in the middle of the night. The size of this vessel permitted a room (one of many) in which people things could march in formation. I think they did that on the Death Star. Flip the missiles around? First that reminds me a bit of Independence Day, but it also just sounds stupid. A child would do better.

    Someone published a scientific paper on the Internet the next day saying it was greenhouse gases? The DOD and NASA track bolt sized debris in orbit but didn’t see this? They found a lot news stories that aren’t there anymore.

    Maybe this is how Moxon plans to win the case in New Braunfells.

  • Dog Saluter

    “…that the individual can, generally, recover from being raped.”

    Right. Sure. Nothing to it.

    What a pig.

    • Clamation

      “It doesn’t give me displeasure to hear of a virgin being raped. The lot of women is to be fornicated.” -L.Ron Hubbard

      “The historian can peg the point where a society begins its sharpest decline at the instant when women begin to take part, on an equal footing with men, in political and business affairs, since this means that the men are decadent and the women are no longer women. This is not a sermon on the role or position of women; it is a statement of bald and basic fact.” -L.Ron Hubbard

      • Clamation

        Downvotes for quotes that exhibit what a bastard LRH was?

        • Great White Clam

          Another example from the absurd bastard Hubbard’s mind:

          “God was feeling sardonic the day He created the Universe. So it’s rather
          up to at least one man every few centuries to pop up and come just as
          close to making him swallow his laughter as possible.”

      • Still_On_Your_Side

        Cult leaders born before 1950 all tend to be misogynists and spout this same tired stuff- LRH, LaRouche, Moon, etc. If they were so far ahead of society, and had such great powers, you would think that they would have been ahead of the crowd in this area as well. Instead, they come across as as Ricky Ricardo, Ralph Kramden, Fred Flinstone and Fred Mertz rolled into one generic idiot.

  • Truthiwant

    First of all, I would like to thank Carla and Ken Moxon for saving the world. Not a small feat, I am sure you will all agree.

    I remember that evening well. I also was sitting out in my garden, with a bottle of Chianti looking up at the stars, and saw that bright light. I knew immediately it was imminent danger and so I picked up my phone and dialed Superman. Unfortunately he was in bed with a bad cold. So I called Batman. He was also in bed, recovering from an annoying stomach bug, and I thought to myself….’Oh my goodness, there are only two people left on this planet who can save humanity!’

    Thank you Carla and Ken. You have done us all proud.

    • woodrose

      Posts that make me laugh get an upvote. You win!

    • FOTF2012

      Carla’s video should be sent to media outlets and the Nobel Prize Committee with nominations for great heroic feats performed while dozing in the backyard!

  • nottrue

    Carla next time take us with you man

  • Science Doc

    Rinder posted another big leak. Naming names of OTs.

    • Espiando

      It’s not the naming of OTs that’s the big leak. It’s the fact that he got the entire rosters of the OT Committees for all of Western US and what their “level of participation” in the Committees is. The only name that’s instantly recognizable for the typical non-Bunkerite is the Duchess-Empress of Springfield and Other Fictional Places, and she’s a heavy participant.

      Well, that and the fact that they have at least one dead person on the roster, Joe Feschbach.

      • Science Doc

        They’re going to have a cow, man.

      • NOLAGirl

        And some people on the list twice in different places. Not sure if there would be a reason for that or if it’s just the usual false stats they love so much.

        • Espiando

          Well, in the case of the family of six or so that were listed under Austin, they moved from Austin to Dallas. Dallas added them on to their OT Committee list, but Austin never took them off because that would have caused stats to crash, and, of course, Austin didn’t want that to happen. Simple explanation, really, especially given the Scilons’ love affair with stupid numbers.

  • woodrose

    Fascinating, but creepy, reading today. Thank you, Jon.

    This is SUCH an important piece of the puzzle for a never-in like myself. Reading the horror stories of people badgered by their fellow Scilons into divorcing their spouse, or into an abortion, or into disconnecting from their children, or into mortgaging their house to donate to the cult, it was clear to me that Scientology utterly obliterates people’s normal human compassion. How could that be?

    By hypnotizing them into becoming clones of LRH, manipulative sociopaths without conscience or compassion. And David Miscavige is the perfect example of the LRH-clone person Scientology creates.

    It’s scary to read how this can be done, but also empowering to know, so as to be wary. Forewarned is forearmed.

    Scientology: the more I learn, the more I shudder.

  • Jimmy Threetimes

    Cool space story, crazy lady. I’ll bet those aliens never expected a librarian to foil their plans and blow up their ship.

    Suggested title for her story “Going Moxoff The Rails Moxon A Crazy Train”

    • George Layton

      The worst part is that debris from the ship landed in front of locomotive causing it to time shift to avoid a collision and coming out of the down time end of the time shift almost ran over hubbard!!

      • Great White Clam

        Just moments before the the freight trains on Venus!

      • FOTF2012

        LOL — NOW I understand!

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Ozzi does NOT approve. ;)

  • disqus_SPiN5N4Adl

    Carla: WTF!? … Really? I guess at Toastmasters you can just tell a story. Good for you, I guess. -S

  • InterestedinCrazy

    Carla Moxon, bringing Sunday Funnies a day early!

    • Graham

      How did the Dublin demo go?

      • InterestedinCrazy

        Brilliant! Met some amazing people and got rained on and a bit cold but fish and chips made up for it after! Definitely will try to make it next month as well. Fair play to Dub Anons; 72 consecutive monthly protests!!

  • Interested

    Mrs Moxton really should learn to communicate better. What is it that makes them , TC! Her, others, sound like morons ?

    • Sarah James

      Because they are morons :-)

    • Interested

      Hang on… Were we Thursday yesterday… (Puts head to one side ) a down vote! I do so love them… It means I’ve hit a nerve.

  • SS

    So was it Carla Moxon’s daughter that was electrocuted at Int Base? Really sad, if so.

    If this woman was one of the Snow White co-conspirators, she had to have already been one of the most gung-ho and indoctrinated way back in 1973. Forty plus years of this crap and you wind up looking and sounding like a lunatic….. and she’s probably long since been at the top of the bridge.

    You’d like to think that there’s hope for everyone still in good standing with the “church”. But damn, when it comes to cases like Carla, who’ve invested so much and perfected the art of lying to themselves literally over decades, a shift back towards reality seems really unlikely.

    • KNMF

      Yep, that’s too, bad about her daughter dying on the job for scientology, but both parents seem to have powered through the grief.

  • kemist

    I’ve got just what Ms Moxon needs :

    • Espiando

      This is what she really needs:

      • sugarplumfairy

        What she needs can’t be purchased over the counter..

      • BumpIt McCarthy

        She’s already spent too much time at Starfleet Academy….

    • Sir_Real

      Bat shit crazy cat lady LOL

  • nottrue

    Carla so you are the one who turned the rockets around.We do not forgive.We do not forget.Expect us

    • Sir_Real

      Dumb question nottrue, does Anonymous not protest co$ events/Orgs like they used to (2008 was a helluva year) to focus on other battles? Can’t seem to find out much from WWP.

      • kemist

        From what I see at WWP, freedom of information has been taking a bit more space since the Edward Snowden thing.

  • kemist

    I love how she says that it was very hard turning the canon around because they didn’t have bodies. But her husband was pushing on her to “generate force”.

    Oh, now it makes sense.

    *backs slowly towards door…*

    • Sejanus

      LOLZ at “generate force”..If she had the Force she could have just waved her hand and spun the cannons. Silly Scilons…Be a Jedi…learn cool parlour tricks….save the galaxy if there is a real threat. You blew it that time though. Those missiles were anti cancer bombs that could have single handedly whipped out cancer on the planet. I was there out of body too…you monsters. Now you have condemned us all to being on a cancer planet. Now those aliens won’t be back….nice going.

      Migod that comic book…..so much wrong over that claptrap.
      They are proud of that garbage?
      I for one don’t want to live in a world where the pants don’t have flies and heroes are blue skinned.
      Although I would love to be in a parade with famous people….yes a vague promise of something someplace as yet to be determined…that’s for me…lol.
      L Ron Fuktard.

  • Observer

    I’ve created a Flickr set with my SAGE comic book, er, revisions. Disqus isn’t really conducive to posting that sort of thing in a way that makes any kind of sense.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/104455089@N03/sets/72157640146978316/

  • Science Doc

    I guess she saved congress!

  • Sir_Real

    Re Mrs. Toxin: Don’t ever mess with the Crazy Cat Lady!

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      Ok, that pic was so good I had to save it.
      Those kitties don’t look too thrilled though.

      • Sir_Real

        “No kitties were harmed in the making of this cartoon.”

  • Drat

    VICTIM is at 0.1 on the tone scale, and is regarded if at all possible with even more contempt than 1.1.

    In therapy there is a time to allow yourself to be a victim, accept that you were unable to do anything about it, before you move on to see you are now in a different place.

    In Scientology you are deemed toxic to be around (below 2.0), somebody who is putting it on for want of attention and to force people to do things for them, somebody who is willing effect. See the Freedumb’s “Posse” article. Any ex member who speaks out about the abuse they experienced will be deemed a 1.1 and a victim by cult members.

    Scientology: an abuser’s paradise.

  • Artoo45

    Thanks, John. Another wonderful, insightful article on how they get their hooks into a wog. Of course, many other organizations do this to varying degrees, ranging from schools and churches to the military and professional team sports. We’re social animals and the line between healthy and destructive can be alarmingly blurry for even the most vigilant. And speaking of the anniversary of LRH’s body dropping, another chapter of LRH: The Target 2 Chronicles is up over at All MEST Up . . . http://allmestup.blogspot.com/2014/01/lrh-target-two-chronicles-chapter-4.html

  • Sir_Real

    Mrs. Toxin, is this what your rambling tome about outer space beings was kinda about?

  • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

    Alexa update for Jan. 25: *refresh for images*

    There were no numbers put up yesterday, so this is in comparison to Jan. 23.

    Tony: US rank #15,383 – up 337 from yesterday.
    Scientology: US rank #35,702 – up 1,519 from yesterday.

    Difference: 20,319 – 1,182 less than yesterday.

    • Artoo45

      I feel responsible for this. I visited the Ron the Liar site doing some research yesterday.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Thank you!

  • Sir_Real

    So “Sage” was part of a 4-part comic series trying to reel the kiddie into the despicable cult. Potential Sea Org slave recruiting, perhaps. Where are the missing Parsley, Rosemary and Thyme editions? Oh, and I’d like to put sugar in the gas tank of that damn Quulian Space Car with the “special engine”.

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      What kid would think Sage is a cool superhero? He has the worst superpower I’ve ever heard of. Sage must be laughed out of every superhero meeting he attends.

      • kemist

        Don’t worry, I found his long lost brother

        • Jimmy Threetimes

          Haha. What is going on there?

          • kemist

            Some sort of weird amateur competition I guess.

            The blue guy is called Vasy and is a character created a few years ago by the government in my place to promote physical activity, for children as well as adults. It was pretty much a fail since everybody mocked the campain in some way or other, often in sketches where Vasy was beaten up with various tools.

            • aegerprimo

              Can’t. Stop. Laughing! Vasy’s superhero powers are as lame as Sage’s. Thanks for sharing that photo Kemist!

      • Sir_Real

        Now taking one’s beer is almost as bad as this fair game shit. Ass kicking would ensue:

  • Michael Leonard Tilse

    Jon, thank you for mentioning my comment about TR-0 to your post last week.

    I do think that the excision of emotion and empathy by the TRs and by scientology training in general makes one feel somewhat how I imagine a true sociopath feels: Devoid of identification with others, and thus others are prey.

    In the case of scientologists this results in behavior and actions that treat others like prey or denies their existence. Maybe not in all of life, but certainly with respect to the issues and subject of scientology. i can’t imagine how this must amplify the sociopathic tendencies of someone who already has the personality disorder. Oh, yes I can. We are seeing the results play out in a small way in Texas.

    I am glad you have filled out the background of how this happens, beyond just my isolated personal experience.

    Regarding Hypnosis, I think you are right. My small reading of texts on the subject tracks very well with what I experienced in scientology. I particularly noticed In G. H. Estabrooks 1943 book that self-hypnosis, (which much of scientology becomes, especially the “OT levels”), can produce seemingly independent ‘entities’ for a person that refuse to go away. It was startling to read his account of one such example.

    Also, I think the constant re-study of materials, and long years of study have the effect of reinforcing and resetting the hypnotic commands. Without the “being on course” and “auditor training” occurring regularly the force of the hypnosis weakens and people start to wake up. I think hubbard was quite aware of this and disguised it by selling the training regimen as “over half the wins and gains of the bridge”.

    The extraordinary mental experiences of the TRs and auditing, including the past-life material one encounters, (or invents), are thrilling and become the carrot that is reached for. That is the dessert, so to speak.

    The training convinces one of the efficacy of the auditing and cements one as a co-conspirator. It also gives you more understanding (!) that enables you to invent even more past-life adventures and eventually body-thetans to audit away.

    Most hypnotic effects can diminish, in my understanding, the longer you are away from constant reinforcement.

    It takes a long time to throw off some of the more subtle character traits.

    • Missionary Kid

      Even without hypnotism, the ideas inculcated into a person form a young age are difficult to throw off, even if one makes a conscious effort.

      I sometimes find myself looking at something from a biblical perspective, then shake my head, and internally say, “Hey, that’s not valid for me any more.”

      • Remy

        “Hey, that’s not valid for me any more.”

        Great post. It’s great to x-out the things that we are not. What’s left is what sticks.

        • Missionary Kid

          The problem is that there is often a residue that is attached to one’s subconscious. I’ve spent 45+ years picking out some of the embedded shards.

          • Remy

            That work you have done means it’s not a problem, for you. Congrats. Most people don’t figure that out. Ever.

            • Missionary Kid

              It has also given me a lot of sympathy for those who still believe in the bible as the absolute word of god. I have come to know the ecclesiastical history, biblical history, and secular history surrounding the bible. I didn’t lose my faith, I found a new one that fit my life much better.

            • Remy

              Could I inquire which one you settled upon?

            • Missionary Kid

              I’m a humanist atheist. For most of the past 40 years, I called myself agnostic, but for the last 10 years, I call myself an atheist.

            • Remy

              Cool. I’m Zen, which is athiest. It helps with stress a lot.

            • Missionary Kid

              I have an admiration for those who practice Zen, especially since they don’t try to foist their beliefs on others. IMO, they are, and don’t have to make others conform.

            • Remy

              I’m only generally zen, I hate to pin it down too much. Categorizations are misleading.

            • Missionary Kid

              Especially from outsiders who have no idea of the differences not only in branches of a philosophy or religion, but the individual differences in each person’s set of beliefs.

              I’m pretty familiar with the different branches of Christianity. The biggest fights are often between close beliefs. Protestant/Catholic. Baptist/ Southern Baptist. Lutherans/Missouri Synod Lutherans. It goes on, with different categories. When an outsider assumes that all Christians are Dominionists, it’s a BIG mistake, or that Fundamentalists speak for all Christians, another mistake.

            • Remy

              Good post, MK. Anytime someone tries to impose their beliefs upon you, they are deluded.

            • Missionary Kid

              Thanks.

              Considering the fact that my parents were in the business of persuading people to join them in their beliefs, which had a good measure of cultural imperialism embedded in them, I’m very sensitive about people imposing their beliefs upon me.

              The assumption among Clams and Evangelicals is that they have the good news, and they want to “share” it with you, whether you want them to or not. After all, there is a lot of arrogance in assuming that what they have is always better for you than what you already have.

            • Remy

              Another great post. Thanks for sharing, MK.

            • TXCowgirl

              Secular humanist here. Same thing as humanist atheist?

            • Missionary Kid

              No. A secular humanist may be an agnostic. I’ve taken the leap of faith to say that I believe there is no god.

            • Cat Daddy

              Spriritual Atheïst here

            • Missionary Kid

              Thanks for your compliments.

    • Jon Atack

      I’m happy to see that the discussion continues. In the clut, the idea is that you will become self-determined by agreeing totally with Hubbard (after all, reality is agreement in Hubworld and the Hallucisphere ™). It is such a pleasure to see people thinking, disagreeing and taking ideas for a walk, rather than ‘cognition’ that Ron was right. Scn is self-reinforcing, and TR-0 is the first reason why – by continuing to ‘confront’ the world, the Dev-OT ™ maintains the hypnoid state. The very best way to throw off hypnotic behaviour is to talk about the beliefs. I sat with a dozen exmembers (okay, one of them was working for OSA) with over two hundred years experience of the clut between us, and asked them all to tell us about an experience where they had used the 8 dynamics to solve a problem. I was surprised to find that no one in the room had ever even tried to use this ‘technology’. Discussion pretty soon shows that the 8 dynamics is a foolish way to estimate anything – one vote for me, one for my wife and kids, one for my pet rock, one for my baseball team, so who cares about humanity, the entire spiritual content of the universe or God? They are simply outvoted. The same happens when you take apart Hub’s other ‘breakthroughs’, they dissolve into tautology. One eager Indie too umbrage when I said that ‘Space is a viewpoint of dimension’ rather than being the cleverest thing ever said about physics (as Hub modestly asserts) is actually meaningless. She spent two hours ‘explaining’ it to me, until she eventually concluded that it is, indeed, simply tautology without meaning.

      The problem with hypnoid states is that they seem, as one commentator above says ‘supernatural’, simply because of perceptual alterations. TR-0 is no different to any other sort of trip. And ‘exteriorization’ usually boils down to ‘depersonalisation’ – the sense that you are no longer quite inside your body – which is a psychiatric problem, not a spiritual achievement. This dissociation can be so bad that those suffering from it – and in a state of hypnoid euphoria (the F/N state) – can come to significant harm. I met a guy who had walked through a plate glass window and cut himself very badly, for instance, while ‘exterior’. The exterior with full perception crowd might take a long at Beyond the Body, by Susan Blackmore. She had an ‘out of body experience’ (smoking dope) as a student and became a professor of parapsychology, determined to prove the reality of such experiences. The book is her account of the failure to prove any such thing, and some of the subtle delusions that go along with the belief.

      Scn consists of tens of different ways of achieving euphoric dissociation and nothing more. Scnists tend to be less capable of communicating (and certainly fail the Grade 0 EP – to anyone on any subject), have more money problems that others, spend their lives making the rest of us wrong, and do nothing for the sake of virtue (charity) because that would be ‘out exchange’. As for Hubbard as any kind of hero, you’d have to be crazy to want to be like him!

  • Mother Teegeeack

    For years I’ve held Moxon as one of the most dark and culpable arbiters of the Scientology cesspool.

    His participation in the trumped-up fraudulent stalking charge against Brian Mandigo (AnonSparrow) was particularly offensive.

    I’m drawing some comfort from the knowledge that he must share a house and bed with butt-ugly and batshit crazy Carla.

    • Sir_Real

      Ken-Prick Toxin is a lower form of life that would ever consider living in any respectable cesspool, with the possible exception of the environmental disaster at St. Hill.

    • Unex Skcus

      Good grief! Saw the pic before I read the comment – thought it was Alice Cooper! (with apologies to AC)

      • Missionary Kid

        Having recently spent some time talking with AC, I can say that he is not a handsome looking person, but he is one hell of a warm, nice guy. His wife got the looks, but he got her. :-))) She’s a very nice person, too.

    • 3feetback-of-COS

      I have to blame his parents. Naming a kid “Kendrick” what can we expect?

  • xoxoxoxoxoxox

    http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/archives/3272

    Hubbard undeniably had a high intellect, and he spent an astonishing
    amount of time intellectually identifying other people’s thoughts,
    feelings and states. He trained and got other people to intellectually
    identify other people’s thoughts, feelings and states.

    What is done with what has been empathized, that is, intellectually
    identified thoughts, feelings or states, will be either sympathy or
    non-sympathy. Sociopaths will use their knowledge of others’ thoughts,
    feelings or states to victimize them. The conscienceful will use their
    knowledge of others’ thoughts, feelings or states to do something much
    different from victimizing them.

    Scientologists’ TRs, tone scale drills, auditing, sec checking, and
    all other parts of its mental system and tech are to intellectually
    identify people’s thoughts, feelings or states to control them,
    fleece them, enslave them, fair game them or do any number of the evil
    things sociopaths do to their victims.

    If Scientologists sympathized with the persons they were victimizing
    with the knowledge the Scientologists had empathized from those
    persons, the Scientologists could no longer be Scientologists.

    • FOTF2012

      Maybe he had a high intellect as far as manipulating people went. But I am not sure he was all that bright really. The parts of Scientology that work seem cobbled together from other people’s insights. The parts that look scientific are really pseudoscientific. The e-meter, believed by Scientologists to measure the mass or charge of mental image pictures seems to properly measure something else. The Wall of Fire volcanoes simply did not exist on Earth where Hubbard said they existed 75 million years ago, and homo sapiens was not yet even involved. His portrayal of current civilization, including freight trains, on Venus was wrong. His grasp of science was sophomoric — meaning like that of a weakly skilled high school sophomore, not a college sophomore. His understanding of radiation was bogus. He was wrong about the speed of light. He could not even pronounce “galaxy” correctly. His theories are rampant with internal contradictions. His research, whatever it was, lacked documentation, controls, and independent verifiability.

      So overall, I don’t see that Hubbard had an undeniably high intellect.

      What I think he did was worthy of Guinness Book of Records for creating a hypnotized flock of believers. He used misdirection to make us think certain states were achievable, relying on the indoctrination and peer pressure of group think to get us to believe that the results were actually being achieved even when they were not.

      That’s what the whole ethics system is about: how to silence internal and external criticism so the spell over the believers is not broken.

      That’s why there have to be enemies and SPs aplenty out in the wog world — the attention of Scientologists has to be misdirected from any internal concerns so the mind can continue to live under the spell. That’s why there has to be disconnection.

      If Scientology were true, we wouldn’t need belief. We would have thousands of people able to objectively and subjectively demonstrate to the satisfaction of any scientist or researcher his or her abilities as a clear or as an OT VIII.

      Do you see any of those around?

      • kemist

        “Forget about OT, show me a motherfucking clear !”

      • Cat Daddy

        Hubbard had an undeniably high intellect but was an incredably lazy sod

  • http://twitter.com/Scientology_411 Scientology_411

    Thank you Jon Atack for your insights into Scientology, you make some very thought provoking points!

    Given Hubbard’s disdain for sympathy it’s curious that he once defined love as a combination of admiration and sympathy (in a lecture IIRC).

  • richelieu jr

    “pilfered bromides”!

    I believe these are the basis of all good brewed beers, are they not? Or should they be filtered out?

  • richelieu jr

    You can definitely see why the cherch was active in anti-gay and Republican politics of late.

    This whole ‘pay to play’ and ‘helping out only hurts’ is pretty close to Rand Paul and Paul Ryan’s saying food stamps hurt the poor, etc..

    A lot of this, once again, I think can be traced to that other soulless cult, Randism.

    It is always frightening to see philosophies that take every selfish, adolescent impulse to act out and believe we deserve more or are better than others, and give them the stamp not only of acceptability but of superior morality. Mommy and Daddy WERE wrong, you DID deserve that dirt bike, and you SHOULDN’T have to share!
    You were ALWAYS better than others, you KNEW it! You weren’t bad, or selfish, you were RIGHT!

    Not only that, but the weak and poor aren’t just in bad shape, or weak the are EVIL. The only wy to help them is by refusing to do so. Every time you don’t give out change, you are giving a leg up.

    Now go do some more coke, drive your new car, or sleep with your mistress. You deserve it, tiger!

    • Missionary Kid

      I follow the path of Sally Rand. ;-)

      • richelieu jr

        Ride, Sally, Ride!

  • richelieu jr

    Ginger Sugerman is an awesome name!

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      At first I read it as Ginger Superman, and I thought that was hilarious. Ginger Superman derives his power from our yellow sun, but it still makes his skin freckle.

      • richelieu jr

        And here I thought the Ginger Superman was the Great Goitered One himself!

        Faster than a speeding subpoena!
        Able to leap logic in a single bound!
        It’s a bird-brain! It’s plane without propellers flying in space on the way to Teegeeack!

        It’s Ginger Superman!*

        *(Ginger Superman is copyright of CoS Enterprises, Miscavige (Mentally) ltd, Heads UP! Ass., and AllYourMoneyAreBelong2Us.com. Ginger Superman does not endorse any sayings, motots or actos of Ginger Superman, any or all of which may or may not be true (But they are all TOTALLY TRUE!)**. In the even that following Ginger Superman or his advice or ‘tech’*** results in loss of ife, limb, family, reputation or itching of the scrotum or shrinking of wallet please contact our attorneys at IKnowYOUAreButWhatAmI? Associates. Do not mock Ginger Superman. Do not point put hat thing on his head, or put his words to the test. Ginger Superman loses all powers in the presence of unbelievers, so let’s help him out, OK? DO NOT make Ginger Superman wrong. Gigner SUperman had not second wife, only he first one and the one he has now, although GS could totally have as may as he wanted but chooses not to.)

        **(does not count if Ginger Superman has his Ginger FIngers crossed behind his DoubleCrossing Ginger Back)

        ***(TECH=TECHnically not true and were are not TECHnically responsible)

  • DamOTclese2

    A space ship, a vehicle capable of traversing inter stellar distances — and the fuckers need to cover it with a tarp to avoid hurting the engine. Good fucking gods how insane.

    • richelieu jr

      Hey, those things are expensive! You don’t want it rusting now, do you?

      • TXCowgirl

        If the spaceship rusts, it must have pulled it in.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      The pollution on Earth is just that toxic. LRH said so.

  • Great White Clam

    Benzedrine often helps a case run.

  • Still_On_Your_Side

    I am puzzled by Carla Moxon’s presentation, what is the purpose? It clearly is a watered down version of a Stargate SG-1 episode, and she clearly is not promulgating any religious idea to this group, so is this the kind of thing members are getting up to in their spare time? Or is she even a participating member of the church? Was Barbara Oliver allowed the freedom to attend Toastmasters? I think not.

    • cdub

      Yeh sure. Members talk about all sorts of science fiction stuff in their spare time. What do people expect from a religion founded by a science fiction writer?

  • TXCowgirl

    Good evening, all. I have just gone through all 530+ posts and did not find a simple answer to my simplistic, never-in question:

    Was Carla Moxon……

    1) Recounting a story that was “true to her”

    2) Telling a story she wished was true (but she and everyone else in the room knew it was only an aspiration and was for practice), or..

    3) Telling a story that she and her husband had fabricated to impress Cobby and his minions and then lied about it being “real to them”?

    Apologies in advance if I’ve missed some glaringly obvious information and have asked a “duh” question.

    • Captain Howdy

      Nobody here could possibly know for sure.

      • TXCowgirl

        Thx. That’s a balm for my not-yet-fully-educated-on-scientology brain.

      • Remy

        Yeah, it’s interesting. I wish she could tell that story hooked up to a polygraph. If she believes it, she’ll pass. And if she is a sociopath, she might pass even if she’s lying. The plot thickens…

    • Baby

      Texas.. I have no idea, but she was absolutely riveting and had me to the Edge of my seat!

      • TXCowgirl

        Agreed. Tonight, instead of going to a movie, I’m going to watch it over and over with surround sound.

        • Remy

          Your comments crack me up:)

    • Sejanus

      Actually according to the original source on youtube…it implied she was part of a toastmaster exercise of telling a fictional story as though it were real.
      Although I just don’t buy it.
      It smells like a back pedal to me.

      • Snippy_X

        If she does believe it, then she was cheating. There should be a steward’s inquiry if she won an award.

        • Sejanus

          I suspect she and dear hubby were on something when they had this shared experience as I am sure the two OSA members will attest to in the downvotes…lol

    • Just Dee

      Just a guess here, TxCowgirl…. but to me it looked like she believed every word of her statement. It seems to me, the higher up on this bridge people go, the crazier they get. People might have joined this cult in the beginning with good intentions, but they seem to get crazier the higher up on the bridge they go.(My observations only, I am a never in and not speaking from personal experience.)
      I wouldn’t doubt that she believes she spent time on another planet.

    • cdub

      I took it to be a story she believed happened. If it was told in the context of a fictional story, then that was her way of having an “out” if her fellow toastmasters thought she was crazy.
      The pauses were typical of people frightened by an audience but determined to make a go of public speaking anyway. Also some of the pauses were points where she was trying to recall her script under stress.
      I wasn’t impressed by any of it, by the way. And I’ve heard better space alien encounter stories to boot!

  • KNMF

    Attorneys get all the hot chicks.

    • TXCowgirl

      My litigator hubby thought that very same thing, which is why I made him my EX-husband.

  • richelieu jr

    Thank Xenu Carla Moxon explained that ‘vessel’ meant ‘like a ship’…

    I was getting confused there. I mean, can’t she put it in layman’s terms?

  • richelieu jr

    Beings similar to humans, but smaller and with high-pitched voices? You can’t understand what they say?

    The MISCAVIGE CONFEDERACY IS INVADING!

  • Torpor

    The classmates in attendance at toastmasters seemed to enjoy Carla Moxon’s “Star In the Sky” public speaking effort. I applaud her for putting herself out there. Well done.

    • N. Graham

      I hope next time she can talk about some truly important OT experiences like finding parking places.

      • Guest

        Why do you hope for that N. Graham?

        • N. Graham

          Because parking tech is so technical.

          • richelieu jr

            It’s like.. totally parallel, using his weight to push it around so it is facing in the other direction…
            You just wouldn’t understand….

    • BumpIt McCarthy

      Well, she’s certainly out there!

      • Guest

        Yes, off the computer, in public with live breathing, being enthusiastic and risking not being admired.

        • BumpIt McCarthy

          If I didn’t know that she was married to the most noxious attorney ever to suborn perjury on behalf of a cult which killed their own daughter, I’d just think her rather sweet. Too bad her daughter won’t ever be able to live and breathe ever again.

          Still, I hope she may find her way out of Scientology. Perhaps the Toastmasters class is to give her confidence that Scientology never could.

          • Torpor

            What makes you think you know anything about this woman? Ever heard played the telephone game when you were a kid? and saw how information gets distorted so easily and so quickly. How do you know that the information you are letting inform your prejudice towards that woman was not distorted, coloured, added to, spun, and altered by the time it reached you? I am not saying it was but how do you know for sure it wasn’t?

            • BumpIt McCarthy

              There is no good reason for Stacey Moxon to have been electrocuted, which she most indisputably was. It was either negligence, depraved indifference to human life, or suicide, all of which point directly to Scientology and its leaders at Gold Base for what they allowed to happen to this young girl.

              That is simple logic. There’s no excuse, none. Scientology is responsible for this girl’s death under scenario possible.

            • Missionary Kid

              What ;makes you think you know anything about this woman?

            • Guest

              I know I know nothing about her.

            • Missionary Kid

              That makes your comments just as valid/invalid, doesn’t it?

            • Guest

              It means I know nothing about her. And I questioned what BumpIt McCarthy knew about her. Problem?

            • Espiando

              “It means I know nothing about her. And I questioned what BumpIt McCarthy knew.

              FTFY.

              “Problem?”

              Yes. You are one, and you have many. Fortunately, I’m known here as The Problem-Solver. Go have your cats lick your balls clean and tell mommy she can use the computer again.

            • Remy

              The cavalry has arrived!

            • Missionary Kid

              Well, for one, she’s a loon in my opinion, to follow someone who claimed to do all sorts of “scientific” research, of which there’s no evidence, and who is a convicted thief, scam artist, and, from his own and public records, a liar, and, from his documented actions, a sadist.

              That should be enough. She’s welcome to believe anything she wants.

            • Missionary Kid

              I forgot to add, incompetent Naval officer.

            • Espiando

              We have first-hand evidence of what a mammoth cocksucker her husband is. There’s this gentleman named Angry Gay Pope who can tell you everything. And there’s the fact, not opinion, FACT that she was an unindicted co-conspirator in Snow White. In other words, she’s a piece of shit, just like you are, OSA.

            • Remy

              Cool story, bro

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          Well done!

      • richelieu jr

        Well, if the Truth is ‘out there’ then she is very far from it.

        (then again, I sure as hell hope she isn’t ‘in here’, either!
        To tell the truth, when I look in her eyes, I’m pretty sure she isn’t ‘in there,’ either.)

        Perhaps she is.. could it be?
        …Three feet in back of her head?!!

        ANOTHER WIN!
        EXTERIORIZATION EXISTS!

    • Remy

      I applaud her for having her video leaked to Tony Ortega! Nice move, Carla!

      • Guest

        I am not a fan of the leak no matter what it is. We are at a low point in respecting each other’s privacy today.

        • Remy

          Thanks for keeping me in comm, Trapdor! It means a lot to me.

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          That is good for you.

          Well done!

        • jeff

          Dude. There is no leak involved. It was put on a publicly available website by the Renaissance Speakers themselves. No privacy has been violated..

          • Guest

            Remy said “video leaked”. I went along.

            Just goes to show you how easily and quickly misinformation gets passed around.

            • Remy

              Just goes to show how little information you actually have available to you.

            • xoxoxoxoxoxox

              Yeah I know. There are still some people who think you have to pay your freeloader’s bill. It’s a bugger that misinformation.

            • Espiando

              Let’s see how fast this one gets around: Torgo…sorry, Torpor has his cats clean his genitals by vigorous rasping with their sandpaper-like tongues. It’s the only thing these days that can arouse him to erection.

              Trufax.

        • richelieu jr

          I gotta say, Torpor is right- I too have seen how quickly misinformation gets passed around…
          I hope no one feels like I am traitor for saying this, but I have to be true to myself:

          Just the other day I saw someone hand the book Dianetics to another person. And BOOM, just lie that, the other person knew less. Amazing really.

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      The goal of Toastmasters is to help people become better public speakers. They are always going to go out of their way to applaud someone’s speech, as a positive reinforcement. To encourage the person to not give up on it. No one would be booed off the stage at one of these events.

      This is one of your worst trolls, too.

      • BumpIt McCarthy

        I think it’s just a practice story. It sounds crazy to some people because she’s not talking to an ashtray.

        • Jimmy Threetimes

          I think it’s a practice story, too. My point is that at Toastmasters, they’re going to encourage you to keep getting up and speaking. It stands to reason that any speech a “classmate” gives will be applauded and well received so as to not scare the person off from ever speaking again. Then, they do constructive criticism later on.

          So the class applauding and seeming thrilled with a half baked story that was not very well told means nothing.

          • TXCowgirl

            Are you engaging for sport or purely for the entertainment value? :)

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              I don’t know, it’s a slow night in the bunker and I’m snowed in. His troll game is weak and I wanted to let him know that.

            • Sarah James

              It’s like his or her’s heart really is not into it. Could be that never ending beans and rice diet.

            • Baby

              and you know drinking Bleach apparently

            • TXCowgirl

              Got it. The only game in town.

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              Your point is duly noted.

      • Guest

        I don’t see you up there on the stage in the leaked video. You talk like a person on their computer, not like a person who puts themselves on the line in front of a live group of people. Most people would rather drink bleach then talk in front of other people.

        • Straight Diet of Kerbango

          “I don’t see you up there on the stage in the leaked video.”

          I think it would be super weird if J3x was up there on stage with Carla at the Scientology Toastmasters event.

          • Jimmy Threetimes

            Especially if we had on the same librarian outfit, with identical floral dresses. What a nightmare.

        • Jimmy Threetimes

          She’s very courageous, joining a class that helps people speak in front of groups and then… speaking in front of that group. She should be praised on following through with something she voluntarily paid to signed up for.

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            Yes.

            That is truly wonderful.

            She really put herself out there.

            Well done!

        • sugarplumfairy

          Some people would rather drink bleach than remain in scientology..

          • Sarah James

            Sadly some have done that :-( to get out of scientology.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Yep..

          • N. Graham

            Reference: Nancy Many’s My Billion Year Contract.

        • xoxoxoxoxoxox

          Guest “I don’t see you up there on the stage in the leaked video. You talk like a person on their computer, not like a person who puts themselves on the line in front of a live group of people. Most people would rather drink bleach then talk in front of other people.”

          Yes she is very brave. Or very stupid.

          On balance, I would go with stupid.

          • Guest

            “Yes she is very brave. Or very stupid. On balance, I would go with stupid.”

            That is why I would say she is brave, because she knows, I know and you know, there are people like you in the world who will say and think exactly what you said and think and she went up and presented her talk anyway. That takes courage. And it is why so many people would rather not and do not.

            • xoxoxoxoxoxox

              You’re right. Most people avoid doing stupid things because they don’t want to be seen as stupid.

            • Baby

              She was in front of a group of Stooopid Scientologists.. BIG WOOP

            • sugarplumfairy

              Stupid and brave are not mutually exclusive..

            • xoxoxoxoxoxox

              No. She could be brave too.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              She knows, I know, you know, and now we all know what you know.

              Yes, there are people in the world who will say and think what they say and think, as you said and thought.

              It does take courage for people who would rather not and do not to do and do.

              They really put themselves out there.

              Well done!

            • Jo

              Davy should give her medal for being so brave.

            • xoxoxoxoxoxox

              Or sell her a patron meritorius bolloxius for being so stupid.

            • Guest

              “Bullbaiting”? “Trolling”? What you up to laddy?

            • Espiando

              Triple D doesn’t get into bullbaiting and trolling. He leaves that to me, Torgo.

              And now that you’re on my radar, you’re fucked. Just ask your buddies in OSA. I’ve driven any number of them from here.

          • kemist

            One does not precludes the other.

            But in this case I vote bonkers rather than stupid. And of course you can be both bonkers and brave.

            Not the best combination for one’s continued existance, but possible.

            • xoxoxoxoxoxox

              Or maybe bonkers, brave, and stupid.

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          Some people would rather drink bleach than stay in the Sea Org.

          That makes me sad.

        • Sidney18511

          She is at the celebrity center in front of all her sclioon friends. This is a Scientology front group.

          • Guest

            Is that a fact? I was unaware of that when I posted my comment.

            • Espiando

              You’re unaware of a lot of things, Torgo. Like what kind of environment you entered when your OSA masters told you to enturbulate this place For Great Justice to strike an effective blow against the enemies of Scientology. No one ever has struck an effective blow here. No one can. And we fight back, you pussy.

              Go admit failure and take your sec-check like a good little cat-diddler.

        • Espiando

          Except for the little fact that I performed on stage between ages four and twenty-five. I can tell that she’s totally oblivious up there to anyone else. She’s getting off on an ego trip. So piss off, Torgo.

        • SandiCorrena

          Not if the crowd was as looney as she was/is-that would take no ballz at all.

      • richelieu jr

        Yeah, it’s not exactly The Apollo, is it Jimmy 3?

    • kemist

      If the point was to prove that OTs are insane in the membrane, well done indeed.

      • Guest

        That may be what you are left with. Beauty s in the eye of the beholder.

        • Baby

          This makes no sense..

          Let’s try.. Where’s Shelly?

        • Sidney18511

          And your crazy trolling ass is on the blog at the bunker.

    • sugarplumfairy

      Must share this.. Cousin and I were just out on my deck.. We both looked up at the stars and noticed this really bright star.. She said it was Mars but I was pretty sure it was a spaceship.. So we both imagined ourselves there and what do you know? All of a sudden we were there! She was right after all.. It was Mars.. And who do you suppose was there to greet us? Yep.. Elron himself.. We waited on the edge of a railroad platform and he picked us up.. He was wearing his little engineer’s outfit, driving his little train, which looked a lot like the kiddie train at Hershey Park.. He asked if we’d brought any money with us, since train rides weren’t free.. My cousin had a few bucks but I was in my jammies and didn’t have any cash with me.. He said he would be happy to take my pertinents and such, and he could run them through his credit dept later, but I wasn’t comfortable with that, so unfortunately, he had to dump us off the train in the middle of nowhere on Mars.. Let me tell you, my cousin was pissed.. Anyway, we’re both still stuck up here, not sure how to get back to my deck.. Fortunately, I had my iPad with me, but not really sure how long the battery is gonna last.. So, if you don’t here from me for a while, you’ll know what happened.. And listen, we’ll keep our eyes open.. if we see any missiles heading to D.C., we got your back.. Might as well keep busy while we’re up here..

      • Sarah James

        I will call Ken and Carla they can leverage you down, maybe I should get ahold of Tom Cruise just in case…

        • sugarplumfairy

          Lol.. I love it..

        • richelieu jr

          I’m pretty sure Tom is the only one who can help.

      • Guest

        Do this little look at me song and dance in front of a live group and that might be something ;-) People are so gregarious and prolific on computers and then I have seen those same people hide under the bleachers when it came time to risk presenting themsleves IRL.

        • sugarplumfairy

          Everybody’s a critic..

        • Jimmy Threetimes

          I just love that the troll who immediately removes his latest account name from his comments is a champion for “not saying it behind a computer” and getting out and giving public talks.

          You won’t even attach one consistent online handle to what you have to say. But everyone else is hiding, right? Who are you trying to fool with this terrible troll attempt?

          • Guest

            “But everyone else is hiding, right?”

            No. You said this not me.

            ” Who are you trying to fool with this terrible troll attempt?”

            Your mom.

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              Shut the hell up about my mother. Dorothy Mantooth is a saint.

            • Sarah James

              LOL

            • valshifter

              are you happy to be DISCONECTED of your family? and true friends?

            • Zaphod Beeblebrox

              It doesn’t have to be this way, you know.

              1-866-XSEAORG (US and Canada)

            • Zaphod Beeblebrox

              It doesn’t have to be this way, you know.

              1-866-XSEAORG (US and Canada)

          • Ardent

            Trying to fool the supervisor with lots of nice stats? Gotta make sure to avoid more toothbrush and urinal duty. Nobody else would be fooled, Jimmy.

        • Baby

          Well.. Fair Game is alive and well in your so called.. { Chirch } why do you think Anonymous was created.. Mr. Guest

        • Espiando

          I have. I’ve done Deathtrap in front of Germans and Shakespeare in drag and Brecht under four layers of makeup. So, you wanna go at me, Torgo? Let’s have some fun.

          • Ardent

            …so one sided Espi. You’ll have Torgo The Terrible in ribbons within mere minutes. But I admit I would like to watch. (Sometimes I am rather bloodthirsty. Besides, the mosquito down voter is buzzing around me again, so some fun is in order). Cheers.

        • kemist

          I have.

          However I actually had to make sense as it involved presenting my research work in conferences.

        • richelieu jr

          Dude, I’ve perrformed in front of thousands of people many times.
          Bite my ass.

          I’ll get up a on stage and call you a tool.
          I’ll do it on my Mac.
          I’ll do it on my friends PC.

          I do not like you, Torpor you ham.
          I would not like you in my house
          I would not like you near my spouse
          I’d write I loathe you on a page
          I’ll declare it upon a stage
          I do not like you Torpor, man
          I’ll say it anywhere I can

          I’ll sky write it from in a plane
          I’ll do it Pal, ’cause you’re insane
          I do not fear to say in song
          The many ways in which you’re wrong
          I’ll sing that song through a PA
          or broadcast it in other ways

          I do not like you Torpor, see?
          So you and I will disagree
          And I will do in on the Net
          And on a cord, without a net
          I’ll call you out before a crowd
          I’ll list your silliness out loud
          And though they number in the thousands
          or tens, or hundreds, I won’t count them.

          For though most may fear a stage
          like a writer fears an empty page
          Henceforth each silence that I find
          Will seem a space to place a sign
          Declaring: Warning! For a mind
          sayeth the sage (or ad in case)
          Be-yeth a lousy thing to waste

          The case in point? This poster here
          Bearer of nothing and bad cheer
          I should have left this just between you
          (To wit: L Ron, and You and Xenu)

          I do not like you, poster Torpor
          I do not see just what you’re here for
          I would not like you on a bike
          Nor in a zoo nor on a hike
          I would not like you in a hat
          nor anything that rhymes with that
          In short: Your discourse I don’t like.

          I do not need an Amen Chorus
          No TV show, no new thesaurus
          So try to add to the conversation
          It may take time, but we are patient
          In time, you’ll find somehitng you like,
          and if you don’t, then take–
          (drops the mic)

      • Jo

        The Space Navy and Tom Cruise, you know, are the only ones who can really help you.

      • Baby

        bawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwhahahhahaha

        OMG Our heros!

      • Captain Howdy

        To get back walk towards the light, SPF..the flashing light..and don’t make any sudden movements with your hands.

        • sugarplumfairy

          Thanks, Cap’n.. I think it worked.. Or maybe not.. Cousin just apologized.. Something about giving me the wrong aspirin a few hours ago..

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        That’s a wonderful story.

        You are a gifted writer.

        I applaud you for putting yourself out there.

        Well done!

      • kemist

        You should not have left home without your towel.

        • sugarplumfairy

          Dats the trufe..

          • Sarah James

            Welcome home to teegetalotadough or what ever Hubbard called it.

            • Zaphod Beeblebrox

              Teegeeack.

        • Sidney18511

          You shouldn’t of left home without your visa!

          Try tapping your heels together 3 times and get your arse back home before the crazy train comes back

        • Ardent

          Ha! Nice allusion. : )

        • FOTF2012

          Ha-ha — Hitchhiker’s Guide. Nice reference and remember — Don’t Panic!

      • aegerprimo

        I can picture LRH in that cute little engineer’s outfit. How sweet!

        • aegerprimo

          (picture refresh)

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            So cute!

            The only thing cuter than a li’l engineer is two li’l engineers!

            (refresh)

            • Snippy_X

              They’ll never find us here!

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Watch out for that train!!!

            • Snippy_X

              Yes, it still needs a train in the distance, a proper caption and maybe a flying pig with trailing banner that says “Mars is done!”

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              There’s something to be said for simplicity…

      • richelieu jr

        Have you tried turning it around so that it pints the pother way, SPF?
        Perhaps see if there are rooms where ‘people’ are reading, sleeping or eating?

    • Sidney18511

      Well they should like it. Their all sclioons just like her having big theta fun at the celebrity center.
      It is another front group hoping to suck in some new raw meat and their money.

    • Espiando

      Torpor? More like Torgo.

      • Snippy_X

        Short for Tropic of Torpor, no doubt.

        • noseinabk

          I thought it was a joke.
          Torpor- a state of physical or mental inactivity; lethargy

      • kemist

        I wish Morbo the Annihilator was here.

        There’s a funny chap.

    • Remy

      Hey Trapdor,

      What are your thoughts about how poorly Miscavige is managing your cult?

    • SandiCorrena

      She was definitely “out there”, no doubt about that!

  • MaxSpaceman

    Jon Atack on Bullbaiting TR-O connects to a book mentioned by ML Tilse.

    “We will see that emotional shock produces exactly the same results as hypnotism, that hypnotism may in reality be a form of emotional shock. We are not clear on this point, but we do know that shock gives us all the henomena of hypnotism and vice versa.” — G H Estabrooks, “Hypnosis” (1943)

    • villagedianne

      So in effect, Bullbaiting may create an altered state, just as a hypnotism would do? Interesting. Auditing is probably a form of hypnotism as well, though Scientologists vehemently deny this.

      • Remy

        Bullbaiting could easily produce a dissociative state, like PTSD or a car accident.

        • Ardent

          Without question. That’s one of the horrible Scilon practices I’ve heard of. No wonder they just keep lapping up L. Ron’s puddles of verbal goo.

          • Missionary Kid

            “puddles of verbal goo.” is a great description of LRH’s writing and speech. It goes on the list at http://tonyortega.org/2013/10/12/tomkat-project-in-los-angeles-heres-your-chance-to-help-the-show-get-to-tinseltown/#comment-1084226006

            • Ardent

              Thanks MK! An honour.

            • Missionary Kid

              It was a good one, especially about someone as oleaginous as LRH.

            • Remy

              Holy crap! I just learned a new word! Thanks, MK!

            • Missionary Kid

              I learn many from the Bunkaroos. The problem is, since I have spell check, I’ve grown dependent on it, and my spelling has suffered.

            • Remy

              oleaginous is my new favorite word

            • Missionary Kid

              It’s what you’ll become from messing around with the oiliness table. ;-)

            • kemist

              Is Diarrhetics on the list already ?

            • Missionary Kid

              Damn! I thought I had it! I had verbal diarrhea, and logorrhea, but not Diarrhetics. I’m putting it on there.

            • Espiando

              You need to credit it to the person who came up with it and popularized it: Nick Bakay, in his famous parody for National Lampoon.

            • Missionary Kid

              I just did.

        • OrangySky

          Yes, I was just thinking that disassociation would be an EP, or at least a coping strategy.

      • MaxSpaceman

        Regarding auditing from a Class xii auditor. And regarding Solo NOTs member auditing. And OT 7 years of solo auditing with 2 security checks in Clamwater FL per member per year on ot7. Every day for hours per day, ot7 auditing.

        “In the first place the trance is an excellent example of autohypnosis. The spiritistic trance and the hypnotic trance are identical for all intents and purposes. One is induced by the subject himself, the other with the aid of an operator.” — G H Estabrooks, “Hypnosis”

  • richelieu jr

    I’d love to know how ‘leverage’ helps turn things with no physical bodies, but it must be over my pay grade… I’m stuck at OT 2 ‘No’Better, as are most people…

    • Sarah James

      I was impressed too. Do you know if Ken and Carla do refridgerators? Maybe Carla and Ken could “leverage” David Miscavige to texas. Nah, the judge has that covered, but there is still the matter of my fridge…

  • Great White Clam

    “Leukaemia is evidently psychosomatic in origin and at least eight cases of leukaemia had been treated successfully by Dianetics after medicine had traditionally given up. The source of leukaemia has been reported tobe an engram containing the phrase ‘It turns my blood to water.’”

    $cientology. Putting the BATSHIT In CRAZY for the last 43,891,832,611,177 years, 344 days, 10 hours, 20 minutes and 40 seconds from 10:02½ PM Daylight Greenwich Time May 9, 1963

    • Sarah James

      Pretty sure Tom Cruise could cure that and any other disease you throw at him, with a touch assist. Like Jenna Elfman says Aids is a state of mind. ( if your out of your mind)

      • Ardent

        Jenna Elfman just sank even lower into the abyss of foulness in my estimation after I read that. State of MIND!? Stick her head in a toilet bowl. What an insensitive, ignorant piece of crap.

        • Sarah James

          She bugs me, plus when I had the flu I saw a picture of her and now I get sick to my stomach just thinking about her and the stupid things she says. I can’t dwell on the subject of Jenna the Aids is a state of mind Elfman for very long.

          • Ardent

            Sarah, I completely understand. It repels the spirit, doesn’t it?

          • Sarah James

            Down vote because I have an aversion to Jenna elfman, gag?

            • Sarah James

              Hubbard, Tom Cruise, Jenna Elfman, David Miscavige, Ken Moxen.

            • TXCowgirl

              Sadly for them, they (just like the rest of us) get only one down vote per comment. Don’t ya’ know they’re discombobulated by the fact they can’t have a down vote for each $ci-bot you’ve named?

            • Sarah James

              Love it! More than they know.

            • Sarah James

              I like Baby’s idea. Where’s Shelly? Where’s Barbara? Where’s Heber?

            • Sarah James

              David Miscavige in Texas, before a Judge, before Monique Rathbun. Miscavige under oath.
              “Mr. David Miscavige, please explain to the court the orthodox use of the dildo in your religion?”

            • Missionary Kid

              DM’s answer: It is used to remove interior body thetans.

            • Sarah James

              Then he has Tommy Davis demonstrate.

            • Missionary Kid

              Yup. I had a couple of really obscene images to put in words, but decided against it. Your answer is very good.

            • Sarah James

              Thank you :-)

            • kemist

              Nah…

              You seem to have picked up your own little pet osa downvoter. I seem to have picked one too. Congrats, it means you’re saying things that annoy them. Carry on.

        • Cat Daddy

          All her shoops dissapear if they are not posted on WWP, And the qoutes about aids dissapear too, She must have hired a bureau that “cleans”the internet on your behalf from unwanted data

    • Ardent

      GWC, it’s so batshit crazy it becomes incredibly offensive. Don’t these fuckwits have any feeling for the families who are suffering and struggling with the disease? No, I don’t imagine they are. I’ve lost a friend to leukemia and they can just piss off with the touch-assist ‘drawing it in’ BS! Makes me furious.

      • Sarah James

        I know.

  • valshifter

    1 the funny part is Supreso’s fits more with the personality of a scientologist.
    2 Carla Moxon; her personality became LRH and her own personality has totally disappeared
    3 that’s a double rip off, you trying to improve your communication but instead you are becoming totally hypnotized great.

  • Still_On_Your_Side

    My objection to Carla Moxon’s evening of storytelling is that she has the luxury to have a night off to tell whacky stories while the majority of her colleagues in the church do not have that luxury. I could only wonder as I watched that video how many members during the time of her speech were desperately trying to raise funds or clean Miscavige’s hot tub to his white glove standard while they look forward to decades of rice and beans and no family life. Apparently, as in all similar dictatorships, the wives of the dictator’s “friends” enjoy a much nicer life than the “peons.”

    • Espiando

      Stalin’s Soviet Union was the exception to the rule. The wives were often used as pawns in order to keep the husbands in line. One wrong move, and he Shellyed them.

      • richelieu jr

        Nice coining of a verb, Espiando;. but may I suggest ‘Shellyacked”?

        It’s ugly, but easy to pronounce, a play on ‘shellacked’ and Shelly+ attack? (tried to find a play with ‘disappeared’ or ‘erased’, but no luck…)

        • Snippy_X

          Shellyfooed

          • richelieu jr

            Shelly-haied?

            Taken on a Miscavige ride around the park?

        • Espiando

          No, I think it has to be “Shellyed”. Simple, evocative, powerful, not a mouthful, serious, and says everything to everyone here.

          • richelieu jr

            We’ll, like i said, it works for me. Very clear.

  • Artoo45

    Off topic-ish, (but not really) is this video of Pat Broeker speaking to the troops right after Hubbard died. If you ever wondered how Mindscavenge bulldozed this guy, this sad, rambling, nervous talk might just give you a better idea of how easy that was. http://youtu.be/FJE7ZcWD6vA

    • Anonymous

      I remember thinking ages ago as he was talking that it seems like he was preoccupied with something that was hidden just out of sight. I guess it is pretty easy now to infer what that was.

      As for the Miscavige portion of the Hubbard Death Event…I simply cannot think of a better example of bald faced lying in a public address. He was transparently making false statements, but building momentum as he went because he sensed that the audience was buying into it. Talk about feeding a troll!

      • PoisonIvyHerself

        Good observations.

    • TXCowgirl

      Cringe! I could manage only 1 minute of the video. So uncomfortable. Get the man a glass of water and a beta blocker.

    • Sarah James

      I believe he had real affection for Hubbard. Miscavige is afraid of him, come to think of it, Miscavige is afraid of just about everyone.
      Pat and Annies marriage; was that the first marriage he ordered ended? Miscavige I mean. Wonder why Annie was put in an apt and not someplace “doing Hubbards work?”

    • Hubbub
      • TXCowgirl

        Reminded me of Marco Rubio’s GOP State of the Union Rebuttal 2013.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      He is incredibly nervous – don’t know if he was always like that our because of LRH dying. Hard to watch, even hard to listen to.

    • Eivol Ekdal

      This Youtube channel has the complete LRH Death Event. Interesting to see the complete collection…
      http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3sMLExO6lgVj64D5vQcPuw
      I especially like the intro music in part 01/16

  • Missionary Kid

    I’ve heard “testimony” at revivals that somewhat approaches this, but not by a country mile.

    Of course, being as ethnocentric as Clams are, the rockets were pointed at Washington D.C.

    Is she a friend of Glenn Beck?

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      I didn’t notice this until I rewatched the clip, but in her story they blow up a ship. Then they come back to their backyard and watch a star explode in real time. Now I’m starting to believe that her story may not have happened exactly as she tells it.

      • Missionary Kid

        The way I heard it, they left after turning the cannons around, but before they were fired. Basically, I may be wrong, but the whole thing seemed to me to be and exercise in telling a tall tle. I just listened to her story while I was doing something else. There was no real context to the talk. I could well be wrong.

  • Hubbub

    Ok, somebody has to adopt the avatar “Suppresso.” Love that.

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      Honestly, I had this pic ready to go before you posted that. Does it look right?

      • Snippy_X

        No. Shamrocks are green and they bring us good luck.

      • Hubbub

        That’s awesome!

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        I don’t see anything…

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Absolutely.

      Anyone who wants it, here’s an image:

      (refresh)

      • Eivol Ekdal

        I’m with Suppresso!

  • PoisonIvyHerself

    Anyone have any reports from Steven’s screening tonight? I sent two industry friends, one of whom didn’t know what s/he was going to see but really needed to see it. Curious as to how it went.

    • TXCowgirl

      The premier is tomorrow night, Sunday.

      • EnthralledObserver

        Yeah… the 26th (Australia Day) which has only just started for you guys, right?

        • jeff

          It’s still 10:12 pm of the 25th on the West Coast.

          • EnthralledObserver

            Yep… I thought perhaps it might be a bit early for some parts, but… nearly. ;)

        • TXCowgirl

          12:17 here, so I guess I should have said Tonight, Sunday.

      • Hingle McCringleberry

        Is this happening in Texas? I live in this great state, but I’ve been a bit absent as a few of us have been been working on a small mural of the Hubster healing Marty’s ear after Doober Cuts it off in Waldrip’s courtroom. . .

        EDIT- Its a spoof, dont actually linking Hubster to anything real. . . Like the painting of Jesus riding the luck dragon from Neverending Story.

        • TXCowgirl

          No, it’s in LA.
          Sounds like you are working on a worthy project! :-)

      • PoisonIvyHerself

        Oh damn, I have to wait one more day. Really curious.

    • Guest

      it looked like a negative informercial from the clip. What a waste of time, it probably took allot of time thought and effort to make it look and sound professional and what is it? Any serious filmmaker, unless they were also caught up in wanting Scientology mocked and destroyed would not give it the time of day. Please let the section know what your friends said, I am sure they will be polite but dismiss it as a piece of childish negative propaganda.

  • EnthralledObserver

    Australia Day Beach Party – Washout… (we went to lunch instead)
    Ah well… hope Steven’s screening goes okay… looking forward to reports.

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    So… since when are Br’er Bear and Br’er Fox “fairy tale friends?”

    • Missionary Kid

      Since Disney said they were. Walt just wanted to make money.

    • Shirley Eugeste

      Why/how are they wearing South Park t-shirts?

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    They found Tommy Mapother’s personal copy of SAGE…

    (refresh)

  • Shirley Eugeste

    Based on what I’ve seen of Miscavige’s public speaking extravaganzas… His “LRH is dead, long live the COB” speech was the last one he gave from behind an unapproved podium.

  • Torpor

    Are non critical views of Scientology, and maybe even criticism of the bunker posted here considered a betrayal, a threat, trolling, here? How is the Bunker’s attitude that different from Scientology’s practice of keeping out critical points of views and their justification for disconnection? Judging by behaviour here outside views are harmful damaging disruptive and distracting should be marginalized and shut out one way or the other. You see the similarity and why I ask this?

    • PoisonIvyHerself

      FLUNK. Typical Scientology diversion argument. Are you from OSA or just a well-meaning Scientologist?

      There is no censorship at the Bunker, unless Tony deems a post to be obscene, threatening or harassing. There are plenty – dozens – of ex Scientologists who post on this board – if you’ve even read it – who talk about their “wins” early in they process and the positive things Scientology gave them. UNTIL IT ALL WENT BAD. In 100% of the cases here, it went bad at some point, or they wouldn’t be “Exes.” Logic argument – if the “Tech” is 100% Workable 100% of the Time, then why SO many – THOUSANDS – of ex-Scientologists, from every generation, telling essentially the same story?

      In fact, if you read down thread or hit “Best”, you’ll find several poignant such stories about today’s topic, the TRS.. Going back to the VV days, you’ll find lots of spirited discussion about that. And many of us Never-Ins acknowledge that clearly, there must’ve been some good in it at first or people wouldn’t have stayed. People here also have VASTLY divergent opinions about the Indies.

      Plenty of people whine about the Bunker as well. In fact, complaining about the Bunker and being critical of it seems to be de riguer these days.

      You can post whatever you want here. Be as critical as you like. No OSA will come to your door. No Ethics officer will make you confess to what you wrote and what the “Crimes” were that made you write it. But expect to be jumped on by people who disagree with you, or who’ll correct you with dox and links if you’re factually incorrect. Don’t even TRY to post fake science here because you’ll be schooled in seconds.

      Your argument is such an ingenuous one, it’s been tried hundreds of times before. Perhaps you’re new to the anti-entheta movement and don’t realize that you’re re-inventing the wheel. This is what you guys don’t get – THE FIRST AMENDMENT WORKS BOTH WAYS. Post whatever you like, but don’t pretend to put on the victim valence when others vociferously disagree. BEING DISAGREED WITH DOESN’T EQUAL CENSORSHIP. THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF FREE SPEECH! In fact, why don’t you sit down in a Scientology classroom and try to disagree with something LRH wrote. Why don’t you write something even slightly critical of COB on a Scientology website.

      Go on. Try it. See what happens. That’s CENSORSHIP.

      • MaxSpaceman

        Wow, P I H !! You certainly Rocked the House with this one !
        Love it !
        Thank you for being so complete.

        • PoisonIvyHerself

          ;-) Well, it’s the least I could do for my “cult.” ;-)

      • Torpor

        You are overlooking or denying how non conforming views are treated at all times . All hell breaks loose when a person does not conform here. Disagreement is viewed, framed and labeled as harmful, damaging, disruptive, distracting, “derail” OSA” “diversion argument” “flunk” etc etc etc. and should be marginalized and shut out one way or the other. I view invalidating others and marginalizing others as a form of censorship as well. You (conveniently to yourself) do not.

        • MaxSpaceman

          >>> “Post whatever you like, but don’t pretend to put on the victim valence when others vociferously disagree. – P I H

          • Guest

            “pretend to put on the victim valence when others vociferously disagree.”

            Who is doing that? I am not.

          • Guest

            The inconsiderate emotional insult pile ones, the bullbaiting, the trolling and the personal attacks that can be found in the bunker is distinct from what might be labelled as “vociferous disagreement”. And one does not have to be playing a victim card to point out insult pile ones, the bullbaiting, the trolling and the personal attacks.

        • PoisonIvyHerself

          Wow, you really want to refute my argument, don’t you “Guest” (or, is it “Torpor”? Another tell-tale sign – changing your posting name in the middle of an argument. Oh don’t worry, I know you have some ‘technical’ excuse for it. They all do.) You’re not doing a very good job of it, though your TR training has taught you well. You know how to write your way AROUND an argument.

          This is where your training as a Scientologist tragically fails, you every time. But because of that training, you can’t even see that it fails you. You can’t sustain an argument. If you’re belittled, invalidated, and marginalized, that is not CENSORSHIP. Please word clear it. Sure, it may be harassment of a sort, it’s definitely high-pressure disapproval, and it’s not pleasant, but have you ever been to a Speaker’s Corner? Have you ever seen an argument in the House of Commons? When someone has a compelling argument and compelling evidence to back up that argument, all the shouting and belittling in the world won’t matter.

          The internet is an ugly place overall. In fact, the Bunker has historically been downright civil for the most part (personally I really hate it when anyone here goes into ad hom attack mode) Surely you’ve been to other blogs on other subject and seen the flaming back and forth! That is the OPPOSITE of censorship. That is the DEFINITION of free speech. Free speech can be ugly. The point is, no one is STOPPED from speaking.

          Advising people to avoid ‘derails’ is not a form of censorship, either. There are many on this board who want to keep discussion to the topic of the article. Ignoring someone’s comment or not responding to it is not a form of censorship.

          I’ve noticed that OSA has drilled into its execs and volunteers the recurring meme “The Bunker is Just Like A Cult!” and are desperately repeating this over and over wherever they think they can get some traction. Ummm….that’s an old tactic. I don’t really understand the purpose of that strategy. Perhaps you’ll succeed in scaring away a few lurking “under the radar” Scientologists with the “Bad High Pressure Blog That’s a Cult All It’s Own” hypothesis . But it’s not like you can take The Bunker over like you did the Cult Awareness Network.

          The day that pro-Scientology people post compelling evidence – facts and figures – to back up their claims, then they’ll be listened to. For instance, let’s see some facts that prove that the state of CLEAR is real. Or that OT powers exist. After all, that’s what you’re paying for, isn’t it?

          Post those FACTS here and I’ll shut up. And no, I’m not talking ADVANCE magazine testimonials from the 1960′s.

          BTW just go to BEST comments from TODAY’S blog and read some of the very long personal essays by ex-Scientologists about their experiences with the TR’s. You’ll hear them write about the “highs” and great feelings they often produced. You won’t read anyone invalidating those experiences.

          That’s the last I’ll say on this subject. Have a nice day.

          • Guest

            We will agree to disagree on the spectrum of censorship I expressed. Have a nice day

        • FOTF2012

          @Guest — you are full of it. I’ll prove it.

          Here are the things I like about Scientology, no matter whether Hubbard begged, borrowed or stole them: the concept of thetan (soul, roughly) being the person him- or herself and that which is aware of being aware; granting beingness; the idea that abreaction therapy (which is what some types of auditing is) can be used to identify chains of related events and can be organized into a comprehensive program of exploration; the ARC triangle; the communications course; the idea that the claims of Scientology could be researched scientifically if the group could get off of the “we’re a religion” mantra; the idea that emotions may be ranked in some sort of scale (though Hubbard’s scale is not backed by research); the role of withholds and missed withholds in relationships; the importance of being drug-free (but the church should please ditch all the support of nicotine and alcohol), the idea of spirals and lower or higher harmonics of various states, the importance of words (but not so obsessively), the concept of anaten, the concept of randomity, the observation that as order goes in on a system disorder tends to “blow off,” the use of a device (e-meter) that helps snag a thought that is a lead to a deeper self-examination before it darts off into wherever thoughts go, the importance of being here in the present moment, the possibility that different and higher states of awareness might be obtainable, and more.

          Now, if The Bunker is the gestapo of censorship that you represent it to be, you won’t read this and only I will know that I tried to post it. But I suspect with high probability that it will post just fine.

          So, let’s see who the real censors are. Can you name me the URL of a Scientology-run website where the people posting here can post their concerns and criticisms about Scientology for public review and comment — and for response by the church to show church sincerity in a desire to improve the church and its policies and practices?

          Waiting …

          • Guest

            So you like these ideas from Hubbard/Scientology:

            “1. the concept of thetan (soul, roughly) being the person him- or herself and that which is aware of being aware; granting beingness

            2. the idea that abreaction therapy (which is what some types of auditing is) can be used to identify chains of related events and can be organized into a comprehensive program of exploration;

            3. the ARC triangle

            4. the communications course;

            5. the idea that the claims of Scientology could be researched scientifically if the group could get off of the “we’re a religion” mantra;

            6. the idea that emotions may be ranked in some sort of scale (though Hubbard’s scale is not backed by research);

            7. the role of withholds and missed withholds in relationships;

            8. the importance of being drug-free

            9. the idea of spirals and lower or higher harmonics of various states,

            10. the importance of words

            11. the concept of anaten,

            12. the concept of randomity,

            13. the observation that as order goes in on a system disorder tends to “blow off,”

            14 the use of a device (e-meter) that helps snag a thought that is a lead to a deeper self-examination before it darts off into wherever thoughts go,

            15 the importance of being here in the present moment,

            16 the possibility that different and higher states of awareness might be obtainable, and more.”

            Did i sperate them correctly FOTF2012?

      • Guest

        “Go on. Try it. See what happens. That’s CENSORSHIP.”

        You promote that your defintion of “CENSORSHIP” is the only one there is. Consider there is more than one way to limit and deter and shape and control self expression. Like the pile ons, bombardment of insults and accusations on unpopular views. You obviously want to frame it that you are lily white and would never want to control thought or stifle others when it is as plain as day that that occurs here. Consider that there is a spectrum of “CENSORSHIP”. Yes no one will come to your house, that is at the extreme end and that is not the normal kind. There are other ways to sanitize a comment section and keep only one message on it.

        • MaxSpaceman

          >>>” expect to be jumped on by people who disagree with you, or who’ll correct you with dox and links if you’re factually incorrect. Don’t even TRY to post fake science here because you’ll be schooled in seconds. – P I H

          • Guest

            I did not post nor talk about any science or fake science. what are you talking about?

      • Guest

        “And many of us Never-Ins acknowledge that clearly, there must’ve been some good in it at first or people wouldn’t have stayed.”

        1. I find the ‘never in” badge hilarious. But I guess that is just some etiquette to distinguish a person who is criticising and who was a Scientologist and a person who just joined the discussion for some other reason. I guess I am a “never in” as well. Do I get a special dinner jacket with a cool “never”-in insignia now?

        2. I would like to see any discussion in the bunker that adresses the “good in it at first or people wouldn’t have stayed”? I assert no such discussion about anything “good” in Scientology exists. People here would lose their minds if anyone put “good” and “scientology” in the same sentence. Whoever put the word “good” and “scientology” in the same sentence would be immediately attacked, shunned and labelled an “apologist” or a “troll” or other.

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          The cognitive dissonance is strong in this one.

          1. Some here were in, some were not. It is helpful, but not essential, to know which is which, as it helps to understand a person’s point of view. Not everyone here is required to think and act in exactly the same way. That you find the idea “hilarious” and mock it by suggesting you deserve some award for being one or the other is simply a divisive tactic.

          2. This is not a forum to discuss Scientology “wins.” It is not a forum to discuss the evil of religion. It is not a forum to discuss the relative merits of those who were in as opposed to those who were never in. It is a forum to discuss the shortcomings and abuses of the modern Church of Scientology, and how these abuses have led to the series of crises it currently faces.

          (And people here have already demonstrated over and over again that they do not “lose their minds” when someone mentions any “good” in Scientology or LRH. They may disagree, which is quite a different thing. Unless, of course, one is of a hive mindset. If the shoe fits…)

          • Guest

            “The cognitive dissonance is strong in this one.”

            Applies ot you as well. is that lost on you? Take your blinders off. Or not.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Or do. Or don’t. Eh, wot?

              Life’s too short for a billion year contract. Or to waste it talking to internet cyphers.

          • Guest

            “2. This is not a forum to discuss Scientology “wins.” It is not a forum to discuss the evil of religion. It is not a forum to discuss the relative merits of those who were in as opposed to those who were never in. It is a forum to discuss the shortcomings and abuses of the modern Church of Scientology, and how these abuses have led to the series of crises it currently faces.”

            I might suggest you read Tony Ortega’s “About” that can be found at the top of the page. No where does it say or suggest that this forum is about “It is a forum to discuss the shortcomings and abuses of the modern Church of Scientology, and how these abuses have led to the series of crises it currently faces.”

            It might be about that for you. But what you wrote was your projection onto this group.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Sigh.

              The “About” describes Tony Ortega and his column. It does nat address the comment section. It is clear that this is NOT a forum to discuss Scientology “wins” or “goods” or any other such thing.

              There are plenty of places to do that. Not as many, perhaps, to support the claim that there are 8-10 million happy Scientologists in the world today. But they’re out there. I suggest you would be happier there, where you don’t have to deal with all this disagreeable disagreement.

            • Guest

              “The “About” describes Tony Ortega and his column. It does nat address the comment section.”

              Then why does Tony Ortega moderate it and ask people do not do certain things from time to time. He directs what the comment section is to be used for and not for, light though his touch might be.

          • Guest

            “(And people here have already demonstrated over and over again that they do not “lose their minds” when someone mentions any “good” in Scientology or LRH. They may disagree, which is quite a different thing. Unless, of course, one is of a hive mindset. If the shoe fits…)”

            There was a recent exchange between “Robert” and “Anonymous” in the “Tales from Scientology’s Hollywood Celebrity Centre: A new film, and a new death” article – you might want to look it up. Or not. It is just one example that vividly displays your group losing their composure when anyone strayed from the party line and did not slander a Scientologist just so. Goes way past simple disagreement. Your two regulars both went for the jugular.

        • N. Graham

          Please let me know when the Never-In Dinner Jackets go on sale.

          • Torpor

            Yes we need to distribute them to the other 7 billion “never ins” on the earth. We should have put a few ever-In Dinner Jackets on Voyager 1 for all the “never ins” that it may eventually cross paths with as it leaves our galaxy. oh well, too late for that.

            • PoisonIvyHerself

              “Torpor” and “Guest” are the same. Evidence below. Another FLUNK.

            • Guest

              You show what you consider to be “evidence”. I assume much of your “evidence” that drives your prejudice towards others is equally substantial (sarcasm).

              Oops, I “FLUNKED” again. At least I caught it this time.

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            WANT! WANT!

        • FOTF2012

          I just can’t resist calling your BS, Guest!

          I experienced lots of good things in Scientology.

          Unfortunately, training your mind to only look at the good things and avoid looking at the bad things is not being a good camper and avoiding entheta: rather, it is not-ising and alter-ising, and those will suppress truth, create lies, and make problems persist.

          So again, I state that despite the blinders of the true believers, I did experience lots of good things in Scientology. Guest, you see what I just wrote, right? “Good” and “Scientology” in the same sentence?

          So now, per your claim, I will “be immediately attacked, shunned and labelled an ‘apologist’ or a ‘troll’ or other.”

          Waiting …

          • Guest

            Y’all are arguing about things that nobody said or posted. You are basically arguing with yourself. Who said or even suggested anyone train their “mind to only look at the good things and avoid looking at the bad things”? Please provide a quote or evidence.

            And you presenting yourself as being a vivid exception only goes to prove the rule and what I am asserting. You can be the most spectacular exception here today or any day. It is an exception. .

    • Ardent

      FAIL. This not the place the praise, but to bury the cult. OSA goons are not welcome. Please go away and investigate Venus: we hear it is quite comfy, but watch out for the railway system. End communication.

      • Guest

        Who said this was a place to “praise” anything? You might be here to “bury” something or someone and others might be here to “bury” something or someone, and that is ok. I am saying that you also attempt to “bury”and squash and silence dissent and non conforming unpopular views much the same way Scientology is said to do. Different methods but the same result, it is your view or nothing.

    • xoxoxoxoxoxox

      I agree with you on this Guest. There is a clear attempt to shut out differing views and marginalize or (ideally) expel people who don’t fit. But there is also intentional trolling/disruption so that complicates it, and maybe serves as an excuse for some people to act like beserk bullies. All groups, I’d hazard, define themselves by expelling some ways of thinking as in some way unthinkable. Scientology obviously takes this to a dangerous and damaging extreme. But it’s present here as well, more so (I think) than it needs to be.

      • OrangySky

        Helpful note to Socks: Try not to be so obvious by agreeing with yourselves.

        • Guest

          Funny stuff OrangeSky given the agreement party that the Bunker is. Helpful note to you: Try not to be so blind to your own relationship to agreeing with anything that is on side here.

          • N. Graham

            Huh?

            • PoisonIvyHerself

              Yeah – “Huh?” is a good way to put it. (Oh wait N Graham – am I ‘blindly agreeing’ with you? Sorry! ;-)

            • Guest

              Of course you are. Shroud it in a joke and happy faces but it is how things work around here.

            • PoisonIvyHerself

              You’re trained to deny any feelings of frustration when you’re in ‘confront and shatter’ mode with horrible SP’s like me. But it’s abundantly clear you’re getting frustrated. Your attacks aren’t working. (But you know that, deep inside, don’t you?)

              Besides, you’re posting on a day-old post. No one is going to read it.

            • Torpor

              “You’re trained to deny any feelings of frustration when you’re in ‘confront and shatter’ mode with horrible SP’s like me. But it’s abundantly clear you’re getting frustrated. Your attacks aren’t working. (But you know that, deep inside, don’t you?)”

              That fantastic intricate unsubstantiated fiction all came from you, is about you and only about you. You just showed the content of your worldview not mine.

            • Fremdscham

              Aaaaand BAM! There it is. The copying and pasting. Very predictable. Bored now. Come on. I usually get way more entertainment out of you than this. I was just starting to enjoy myself and you go and get all boring on me too soon. :( :( those are for you since I know you like emoticons. ;)

            • Guest

              It is good to be pleased with oneself. I hope the feeling lasts throughout 2014 for you. Sorry about the boredom, it will pass.

            • Fremdscham

              Pretty sure this is the same yard ape who hangs out on Radar. He always starts bitching about the “cultish group dynamic” of the bunker a day or two after something is posted in a lame attempt to have the last word. He never has a coherent point and is devoid of logic. I like to poke him with a stick once in a while for fun. If it’s the same dude soon he’ll start copying and pasting every ones words into new posts, as he deploys the “I know you are but what am I?” Pee Wee Herman tech. Then he throws a fit and deletes his posts. I think he got tired of waiting for Radar to post a new Scientology related article. He gets boring fast.

            • Guest

              I hope you are able to get past your boredom. I am sure you will.

            • Guest

              What might be fun for you is for you to go up to a group of people standing in a bar, preferably after they had had a few drinks, and call some man you do not know a “yard ape”to his face or even better call him a “yard ape” to the person next to him loud enough that he hears you and see what happens. After you do that please come back here and share about it.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              No one.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              I get dizzy sorting out whether i am agreeing with myself or the others here I agree with. As I understand it, I should agree with those I disagree with, and agree with the ones who agree with themselves. (Unless they disagree with… the others?)

              And that, I guess, is the secret to Scientology’s awesome, awesome Communication Tech.

            • N. Graham

              lol

        • xoxoxoxoxoxox

          OK well talking about intolerance. Now I’m not even allowed to agree with myself?

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          What, what, what?!?

      • Guest

        Yes, well put.

        I know I am going straight to hell for agreeing with you. Only Bunker people are permitted to agree with each other. I am a failure as a “never in”.

      • Fremdscham

        Hey! Not to be Captain Obvious or anything but if you want pro Scientology views and you are interested in hearing about wins and positives and such why don’t you go to a Scientology website? You say you are a never-in, so why don’t you go check out you closest org today? If the prevailing opinion here is one you think is false then why not talk to the Scientologists themselves? Find out for yourself. I’m sure they are lovely people who would love to talk to you. If I wanted to hear positive things about Mormons I surely would not make my first stop ex-mormon.org. I’m just sayin’.

        • Guest

          Please show where I expressed wanting “pro Scientology views and you are interested in hearing about wins and positives”. You are talking about something that is not being talked about.

        • xoxoxoxoxoxox

          I really never said I wanted pro-scientology views or indeed any of the other things you say I said. I have no desire to “check out the closest org”. My point was just that there could and should be a bit more tolerance for diverse viewpoints.

          • Fremdscham

            Okayyy… So what are u bitching about? You want the bunker to research and present both sides of Scientology for you because you are incapable of typing in new web addresses into your browser because of your own monumental laziness or something? Wait. What is your point again? You have time on your hands and your browser is stuck here. Why do you want dissenting opinions if you don’t want to read positive things about Scientology?

            • Guest

              I asked:

              “How is the Bunker’s attitude that different from Scientology’s practice of censorship, keeping out critical points of views and their justification for disconnection? Judging by behaviour here outside views are harmful damaging disruptive and distracting should be marginalized and shut out one way or the other. You see the similarity and why I ask this?”

            • xoxoxoxoxoxox

              Okayyy. I want a tolerant, inclusive environment for discussion of ideas. I don’t specifically want x opinion or y opinion. I want a tolerant comments section where people with different viewpoints are not bullied and shouted down. That’s my point. That’s what I’m bitching about. I really can’t say it much clearer than that.

            • Fremdscham

              Okayyyyyy. So you get equally pissed off in the comments at Huffington Post or on conservative websites? They generally have an over prevailing viewpoint and their is name calling and disagreement results in accusations and pounding. Since you know, that’s really your concern. Do you express this concern elsewhere? If so, where? If not, why just here? It’s weird, for someone who has expressed no real opinion on the subject in any way. Also, is this where you claim to be a never in but your only criticism is that Scientology is too business like? Why not try starting the discussion you wish to see? All I see is some dude showing up and bitching that he wants to see two sided conversation, but never actually presents an opinion that can be discussed (other than your angsty bitching). Any way. I’m sure I’ll engage in some futile conversation with you later. I’ve got to clean the guinea pig cage now. I’ll think of you as I scoop up all those tiny little pieces of sh*t. Have a nice day cranky guy! :)

            • xoxoxoxoxoxox

              I do express other opinions. And I do express a concern for tolerance and respect for diversity of opinions in other contexts.

              I don’t see why the idea that tolerance and respect for diversity should be fostered makes you so cross.

              I haven’t said that my only criticism of Scientology is that it is too business-like. I think Scientology is very harmful in many ways to thousands of people. You may be confusing me with someone else.

            • Guest

              Of course you express other opinions and of course you express a concern for tolerance and respect for diversity of opinions in other contexts. I do as well.

              The idea that tolerance and respect for diversity should be fostered occurs as a threat because it is not practiced in the bunker and there is no wish to change that.

              And confusing you with someone else, pretending you are this person, that spy, this troll, that mole, this agent, that Scientologist or that plant, etc etc etc. Is the Bunkerite’s justification for not interacting in a reasonable manner. It is how they turn people into things, into kicking posts, they label you a thing so it justifies boorish behaviour. So it is your fault they come out of the gate with “fck ff” or “troll” or whatever insults their shadow feels like dropping on others.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Chat among yourselves. The grownups will all be in the other room, anyway.

            • Guest

              Your desperate little one-ups are amusing. Thanks.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              ^^^THIS!^^^

            • Guest

              “Why do you want dissenting opinions ”

              I do not want that or anything really. I simply pointed out that the Bunker has ‘intolerance of dissenting opinions’ in common with Scientology.

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              You’ve pointed that out every day for several weeks now. We get it. You made your point. You can stop now.

            • Guest

              You Bunkerites make your point over and over and over and over and over week after week month after month. Others only allowed to make a point for two weeks?

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          You do realize that what you are saying is really, really sensible…?

    • Cece

      Yes

    • Cece

      You just may have to be ‘non-critical’ b4 you can see.
      I await..

  • FOTF2012

    I want to play the devil’s advocate. Let’s say Carla Moxon did destroy an enemy ship bent on destruction of the US eastern seaboard.

    It would seem highly likely that an alien civilization capable of launching one ship would be able to launch others. And therefore, we should be on constant alert for the next attack.

    Comparison: we know that Earth is in a gravity well and is subject to the shooting gallery effect of various objects (meteors, asteroids, comets, etc.). Now that we know how vulnerable Earth is to bombardment (several dozen tons of stuff hits Earth daily) we are least putting some efforts into watching the skies for objects that could cause significant damage.

    Now, in Carla and (Kend)rick’s case, they have spotted a threat in the skies and neutralized it, but don’t seem to be able to think through to the next, logical step: warn people and get a surveillance system going 24/7. Carla seems fine with saying “yeah, we wiped out that one existential threat with our OT powers, but we have no obligation beyond that.”

    That’s a little like saying you found and took care of a syringe of a deadly neurotoxin you found in a playground, but you don’t have the common sense to tell anyone that we had better search carefully to find out things like: where did it come from? How can we prevent it in the future? How can we organize to check that there aren’t any more of these syringes lying around before the kids get hurt?

    But no. The threat to planet Earth is just a cute anecdote told to wow the faithful.

    In my book, either the story is true or not. If not, she has committed an overt by lying. If true, she has committed an overt of omission by not taking action. Out ethics again from the most ethical group on the planet.

  • Cece

    Well Carla, Thank you for telling your story. I will not de-nounch it as it is your story and I would not like that if someone did that to mine.
    So later did you figure out what happened to your daughter?
    Hippies talked about ‘vibes’. It’s a simple energy thing. You do not have to study LRH to learn about this. It’s with-in you already. Truth flows freely.
    I hope for you the best.
    And I am going gold panning for the afternoon.
    Cece

  • Snippy_X

    Today was filled with so many thought provoking posts.
    To see the best discussions, you can
    sort by oldest or best .
    The trolls come when the topic is threatening, often a day or two later.
    They post garbage at the end of the really good discussions.

    • Guest

      “The trolls come when the topic is threatening,”

      Sounds fantastic. Lords of the ringish.

      “They post garbage at the end of the really good discussions.”

      One man’s “really good discussion” is another man’s “garbage”.

      ” Sort by oldest or best to bypass them.”

      Hey comment section life coach, how about people read what they want to read how they want to read it?

      • Snippy_X

        Whatever, “Guest” …

        • Exterrier

          Ha, If there is an awards category of “predictible and boring” it has to go to “guest”. Those Dwarfeneurer bootlickers don’t have too many tricks at all. Thumbtacks on the chair and whoopee cushion sort of pranks. It stands out so starkly from the actual commentaries on what Tony and fine minds like Jon Atack post, that even the newest lurkers see through it and move on past it.

    • Sydjazz

      Hey you could make a haiku.

  • Eugene K

    What a bunch of horseshit. No wonder I didn’t find his book at all useful. This guy is no better than Miscavige in twisting the facts. The quote from Science of Survival is actually a warning to the auditor to watch when a PC may have entered a light state of hypnotic trance and so should be careful with his/her actions. And this is taken out of a chapter (Chapter 17 – Hypnotic Level) where Hubbard talks about the dangers of hypnotism, how to undo hypnotic commands, and how to avoid it in auditing. Here is a full paragraph where this sentence appears:

    “When an auditor finds his pre-clear unusually suggestive, he should be very careful what he says to the pre-clear. He may notice that a pre-clear after he closes his eyes will begin to flutter his eyelids. This is a symptom of the very lightest level of hypnotic trance. The auditor cannot avoid processing the case, but he should be careful to use language quite unlike hypnotic suggestions and be certain at the end of the processing session to scan off the auditing.” (pages 227-228 Book II Science of Survival).

    What a con!

    And this whole crap about TR’s inducing sociopathy – are you kidding me? TR’s is so that one learns to be there and observe including when it may be an emotionally charged or uncomfortable situation such as in TR-Bull-bait. This makes an individual more in control of oneself and able to handle anything that may come along in any one’s dealing with people. The critics often ask where is Hubbard’s “research data.” I ask where is John Attack’s research data? Has he set-up control group experiments of a group of people completing TR training vs. a group of people not doing so and then compare the results? I’m guessing that he has not… just a soup of quotes and his personal opinions.

  • Fremdscham

    The creeps come out at night. The creeps come out at niiiiight.

  • Xenu Was A Nihilist

    LRH, mind rapist.