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HOW SCIENTOLOGY COERCED A CHILD TO HAVE AN ABORTION: THE LAURA DECRESCENZO FILES

HOW SCIENTOLOGY COERCED A CHILD TO HAVE AN ABORTION: THE LAURA DECRESCENZO FILES

—————- In anticipation of her biggest day in court yet, Laura DeCrescenzo and her attorneys hit the Church of Scientology with 928 pages of new filings —————- Details from 18,000 pages of evidence show how Scientology manipulated a child to keep her working under slave-like conditions —————- A key document describing DeCrescenzo’s unwillingness to have her coerced abortion is missing from the evidence Scientology was ordered to produce By Tony Ortega Wednesday afternoon, Laura DeCrescenzo filed explosive new information in her four-year legal odyssey against the Church of Scientology, submitting 928 pages of new declarations and exhibits in anticipation of a crucial October 23 hearing in her lawsuit against the church which alleges abuse, including allegations that she was forced to have an abortion at only 17 years of age. Key to the new filings is information gleaned from thousands of pages of previously secret files that the church fought mightily to keep under wraps. But on Monday, the U.

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Scientology Starts Out as Staring Contests

MustNotBlinkLast week, Claire Headley started us out on our journey to train as Scientologists. In 2005, Claire and her husband Marc escaped from Scientology’s International Base after many years as “Sea Org” workers. She spent years working with Scientology’s “tech,” and was trusted to oversee the auditing of Tom Cruise. This week, she helps us learn how to stare for a really long time

Claire, last week we took one of Scientology’s “personality tests” and found out we have all kinds of problems. So this week, we’re going to start our first course at the church. What’s it all about, and what does it cost?

CLAIRE: It’s called the “Success through Communications Course,” and it costs around $200.

It’s presented as a course that teaches the basic parts of the communication formula — the first of which is to train you just to be there comfortably.

THE BUNKER: Be there? Comfortably?

CLAIRE: It’s a baby step, and it’s called TR-0 (as in “training routine zero”). You need to sit in front of someone else with your eyes closed, and just be there.

THE BUNKER: Be there?

CLAIRE: Comfortably. Without twitching, fidgeting, or anything else.

THE BUNKER: So the first step in learning to communicate with someone is to sit still with your eyes closed and hold still. How…uncommunicative.

So at some point I guess you open your eyes and begin a staring contest with another person. I remember doing that as a kid, but it never lasted more than a couple of minutes. How long are you expected to hold a stare in the comm course?

CLAIRE: Two hours of blink-less TRs used to be a requirement, I think, in the 1970s. But that was cancelled, and minimal blinking is now acceptable for a pass.

In my years in the Sea Org, I probably did upwards of 500 hours of TR-0 eyes closed, and TR-0 eyes open.

Up_The_BridgeIn 1992, when I had been at the Int Base less than a year, the area I was working in (“Qual” –- where staff training and auditing were delivered) was shut down by David Miscavige and we were required to do videotaped TRs day in and day out for 4 months until we all had passes from him. So yes, my TRs were approved by little man himself.

THE BUNKER: He is not a tall man. Claire, I’ve talked to some people who say that after they stare at someone that long, the other person’s face can begin to do funny things. What they’re describing is hallucinations.

CLAIRE: Yes, your eyes can go fuzzy and your mind might wander, but as with anything, if you practice you will get the hang of it. It’s not for nothing that Scientologists are recognizable for the glassy stare.

THE BUNKER: So after you’ve mastered communicating by not communicating, what comes next?

CLAIRE: TR-0 Bullbait.

THE BUNKER: Oh, this is when you have to keep staring straight ahead, but the other person shouts at you or acts up in order to make you flinch.

CLAIRE: Yes. When I first did Bullbait, I was horrified and scared. Honestly. Even TR-0 (staring) I thought was a complete joke. Raised in England, I was of the view it’s rude to stare at someone, and I would most often find some notable feature of the person’s face to focus on. Just honestly.

In Bullbait, the best idea I could come up with at age 10 was to imagine myself in a bubble, impervious to what was being said or done, so I wouldn’t find it funny and wouldn’t react.

The worst was to have a 40- to 50-year-old man start to unbutton my shirt. That was pretty horrifying (and pretty common, mind you). I had a tendency to blush purple back then, and so I had a real rough go of it.

THE BUNKER: I’m sorry, that sounds sort of revolting.

CLAIRE: Several times I just outright broke down in tears, and then did a real good job of hiding my tears from my supervisors.

But yes, Bullbait got pretty gruesome, with yelling and screaming and some touching. The materials state to find the person’s “buttons” — what they will react to -– and then “stomp on them hard” or words to that effect. No mercy.

THE BUNKER: We’ve heard testimonials from people who say the experience did subsequently make them stronger participants in conversation. But it sure also seems like an exercise in control, especially if it’s repeated so often, as you point out. So there are additional training routines. What’s next?

CLAIRE: In TR-1, the coach gives a flunk for anything not delivered naturally, as your own and in its own unit of time. For example:

Me: (holding a copy of Alice in Wonderland) “Curious and curiouser.”

Coach: Flunk. That was not natural.

Me: “Curious and curiouser”

Coach: Good.

Me: “Why is a raven like a writing desk?”

Coach: Good.

And so on. For TR-2, the coach reads from Alice in Wonderland and I have to acknowledge each line he or she delivers:

Coach: “Take care of the sense, and the sounds will take care of themselves.”

Me: OK.

The coach will also flunk if any of the acknowledgements were evaluative or do anything other than simply and only acknowledge the communication as heard and received.

For example, if I had said “I’m not sure what you mean by that.” I’d be flunked.

Any facial expression or reaction, during any of the TRs would also be flunked.

THE BUNKER: And in TR-3?

CLAIRE: TR-3 goes like this…

Me: Do birds fly?

Coach: Yes

Me: Thank you. Do birds fly?

Coach: What time is it?

Me: I’ll repeat the auditing question, do birds fly?

And TR-4 is very similar…

Me: Do birds fly?

Coach: Yes

Me: Thank you. Do birds fly?

Coach: I have a headache.

Me: I understand. I’ll repeat the auditing question, do birds fly?

THE BUNKER: How…repetitive. And the point?

CLAIRE: The premise of these last two is that you are training to become an auditor. Some of the key principles in auditing are “the way out is the way through” and “what turns it on will turn it off.” In other words, the key to any auditing process is to continue with the command or process no matter what happens and no matter what reactions or response you get, so you need to be trained to persist with it despite whatever may happen and for as long as necessary until you get the desired result.

THE BUNKER: We can see how that might make sense if auditing were extremely repetitive and time-consuming, and the point is making a person loopy. Which we’ve heard is the case. Well, that’s an interesting start to things. If, that is, we were training to question a parrot. But the first step on a journey to crack open the cosmos? Well, we’ll see.

COST THIS WEEK: $200

COST SO FAR: $200

 
—————-

SMERSH Madness: Sowing the Seeds of World Domination!

As we announced on March 1, we’re joining bracket fever with a tournament like no other. It’s up to you to decide who should be named the new SMERSH, the traditional nemesis of Scientology. Cast your vote for who’s doing more to propel the church down its long slide into oblivion!

Continuing in the first round, we have an interesting matchup this morning.

WWPVsAnderson

WhyWeProtest.net is an online forum for the Anonymous anti-Scientology program, Project Chanology. Wild and woolly, the site became less about the worldwide protests that started in 2008 and more about the research being done by scores of vigilant Internet sleuths. Like any forum, its cast of characters is always changing, but document releases seem to have been particularly good in recent months.

Anderson Cooper followed up the 2009 St. Petersburg Times blockbuster series “The Truth Rundown” with his own special about violence in Scientology’s top ranks in 2010. Since then, he’s been the go-to American television figure for Scientology news, as he proved recently with excellent programs on Lawrence Wright and Jenna Miscavige Hill. Cooper knows his stuff.

 
See our March 1 post for the latest standings in the tournament.

 

—————-

Posted by Tony Ortega on March 12, 2013 at 07:00

 

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  • jensting

    Talk about a tough choice! I’m going to have to go with Anderson Cooper because he does not preach to the converted. I am on WWP and love it, but it’s now more about backgroubnd work (in spite of the demos that I and others still go to…). Cooper gets the word out to people who would never dream of looking for any information about the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology.

    Oh, and if you think TR-0 sounds like a course designed to make the subjects compliant in the face of the desire by the Co$ to control its members, consider that this is the first thing that happens to drug addicts after they have gone “cold turkey” at the narCONon front organisation. Designed for control, administered as soon as the victims are able to stand on their own two feet – what’s not to like?!?

    • Scientology Kills

      Your IP and disloyalty to WWP has been noted. :)

    • Meccaanon

      Cooper followed WWP; QED.

  • Scientology Kills

    Tony, I am terribly upset that you used a Boston Terrier in reference to the evil cult. The Boston Terrier is known as the first American breed, a gentleman and a loyal friend–the cult is none of these. Please replace the BT with one of those disloyal, suppressive, and angry “cats”. Thank you.

    • mirele

      As a personal valet to two cats, I can testify that cats have TR-0 down cold. Naturally.

      • Trustmeonthis

        They totally fail at Bullbaiting, however.

        • Observer

          Verbal, yes. Nonverbal, they excel. I am horribly allergic to and not overly fond of cats, and they know it and try to swarm over me like locusts if they get half a chance.

          • Trustmeonthis

            Eh, they can dish it out but they can’t take it!
            Anyway *I* am the bigger cat. My TRs prevail around here.

          • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

            This is because human beings in Western culture show we want to avoid people by completely avoiding eye contact. For cats, completely avoiding eye contact shows that you are perfectly safe — it is the way cats show each other they are willing to submit to the another cat. When two cats spend a lot of time in the same area without looking at each other, that means they want to be best friends. If you want cats to stop swarming all over you, stare at them.

            • Observer

              Thanks for the tip–definitely going to try it!

          • Chocolate Velvet

            Well yeah, when they hop in your lap to be petted, and immediately lift their tail and put their butt in your face — that’s definitely on purpose, and I’d call it an excellent bullbait! ;)

        • FistOfXenu

          Don’t you believe it! They just have a more sophisticated way of doing it. Even the average cat has a better fixed dedicated stare than Big Beans DM and TC themselves. They do all their TRs with that glare. Even the ash tray drill is done just with their eyes. Cats’ stares are pure Tone 40 and if you have any buttons just looking into a cat’s eyes will stomp them all.

          And a cat doesn’t even have to undo your buttons to make you feel totally exposed.

          • MarionDee

            Fistof, you have a superb understanding of felines.

          • DeElizabethan

            I wasn’t going to comment but yes, thanks, you are right and me and my cat agree.

            • FistOfXenu

              I only said it because my cat gave me permission. :)

        • Andrew Robertson
  • EnthralledObserver

    Today’s vote really is about who to ‘save’ first – the Scienos, or the new meat. I’m going with new meat because at least the Scienos will either work it out on their own or die off with their ever dwindling funds, leaving nobody to pay for Davey’s lobster… but keeping new meat with loaded wallets from Davey’s door will starve him out quicker, I think. It’s all about perspective…

    The TR’s… yes, I watched a youtube video demostrating them with Jesse Prince and Stacy Brooks… just about drove me around the twist, and I was just watching a short demo… holy Xenu!

    • FistOfXenu

      Why Enthralled, I never thought about myself as holy before, but thank you! :D

      Seriously, I see your point about who to save 1st but to me that makes it harder. If you don’t hurt $cientarCONon’s ability to hold on to its slaves, you don’t keep getting the stuff to show the raw meat and discourage them. And you don’t hurt $cientarCONon’s ability to silence wog critics and shut us down. Just look at how few OSAbots spend time trying to wreck communications here. Go back 10+ years and see how much crazier it was on a.r.s. and how much effort OSA put into it. They can’t do it like they did and that’s because $cienos weren’t left to work it out for themselves. And $cientarCONonists that leave have given even more ammo to use to people still in and to raw meat too.

      I agree that keeping new money out of the cult is important and Cooper has done good there but I think WWP has reached inside and out with real powerful effect.

      • EnthralledObserver

        You are probably right… I’m only new to this, so no doubt there is a LOT that groups like WWP did (and continue to do) that I really cannot fathom the extent of. I’m only voting from my point of view, which is limited I admit, but it’s all I have. It’s good that the bigger picture is represented to us newbies through seasoned Scilon watchers and ex-es – I appreciate it, and don’t feel bitter if the one I vote for doesn’t get through; I know there is a lot more behind the scenes than I have been privvy to already.
        *bows to Holy Xenu*

        • FistOfXenu

          A point of view is all any of us can be sure we have. Then we have to gather the facts we need to make it fit reality.

          I didn’t say what I did because I think you’re wrong. I’ve been arguing this vote in my head since Tony posted it. I could go either way and feel I was right. And wrong. In the end I think they need each other.

          And see how carefully I dodged the opportunity to repeat the adage about opinions but reword it for point of view? :D

          • EnthralledObserver

            Most of these polls could go either way in my opinion, I hear you. I have often second guessed myself after I hit the ‘vote’ button, especially when I read other people’s arguments or reasons. I think it’s key to remember that every single one of our contestants were winners and/or heros to begin with… well, if LRH and Davey’s efforts to destroy their own cult could be called winning…LOL!
            Nice work with the dodge… I didn’t call you Holy for nuttin’…

  • whingeybingey

    WWP. Anonymous changed EVERYTHING.

    • mirele

      Seconded. At the very least Anonymous gave a jolt and propelled Scientology to the front of the International Joking and Degrading queue.

      • Chocolate Velvet

        Oh my, the irony of that — if it turns out Hubs was right and “Jokers & Degraders” really did destroy scientology! Lulz!

        • Ziontologist

          Yes, and I am one of those people!
          I had the courage to goof on Scientology, even when I was “in!”
          But y’all put me down. Chocolate Whorehouse tried to set “ground rules,” where I’m not “allowed” to recomend any reading material that involves cognitive science.
          Festival of the Idiots!

          • sugarplumfairy

            who’s wearing the ziontologist sock today?

            • Poison Ivy

              I am enturbulated…are there clones in the house? Has someone reached OTIX?

            • sugarplumfairy

              They’re prob gone now.. I think they work 9 to 5.. =)

            • sugarplumfairy

              The evening shift has the better sense of humor..

            • Ziontologist

              No it doesn’t! I ‘m still mad at you, too. You jumped in my shit just for talking about a dream I had!
              You have your personality, and I have mine. I didn’t do anything to deserve your judgmental remarks.

            • sugarplumfairy

              “I do my thing and you do your thing.
              I am not in this world to live up to your expectations,
              And you are not in this world to live up to mine.
              You are you, and I am I,
              and if by chance we find each other, it’s beautiful.
              If not, it can’t be helped.”
              -Perls

              xoxox

            • Ziontologist

              That’s a cop-out … go fuck yourself.

            • sugarplumfairy

              coward.. why not attack on an active thread? Confront all you want, dude.. You don’t have the RANK to shatter my fairy ass..

              ARC, baby..

            • DeElizabethan

              Got your back Sugar. He’s a coward.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Glad to see your computer is up and running.. We really missed you!

            • DeElizabethan

              I still had some notifications coming in. I haven’t been commenting much but reading. Back after a week away on new iMac and much to learn new tricks. Also active now on FB and navigating that.
              I missed you too and everyone and see lots of new names. Busy this weekend being with friends and downtown a bit for lulz. Also some minor health issues are clearing up. <3

            • sugarplumfairy

              Soo glad.. have a great weekend!

            • Captain Howdy

              Huh ? Zion admitted to being Flunk quite sometime ago after I called him om it. He has a couple of others if I recall correctly.

            • sugarplumfairy

              i remember.. Yah, he did admit that.. I haven’t quite figured it out yet, but I’m working on it.. There is definitely more than one personality behind the Z/F persona..

            • Captain Howdy

              Yeah, more than one personality inhabiting the same body.

            • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Eckert/100002715429426 Robert Eckert

              It’s body thetans, I tell ya!

            • Sandy

              When you said you had to go out for cigs today, I went “NO. DON’T GO!! We need you to deal with this guy!!!!!”

              I know. Unfair… I can be a wimp like that …

            • Chocolate Velvet

              And StillKeyedOut.he finally admitted to that one — as if it wasn’t obvious. It’s always obvious…

            • Captain Howdy

              Yeah, that was one and why anybody would feel the need to use socks on a site that is as generally friendly as this one is completely beyond me and is definitely a sign of psychological issues or a hidden malicious agenda against the blog itself.

            • Chocolate Velvet

              Agreed. I think it’s the latter. And he’s good at what he does, too. Consuming a lot of energy here, and very skillfully manipulating people sometimes. It is fascinating to watch, but I stopped feeding that troll awhile ago. Although he comes sniffing around for my attention sometimes.

              And I like to encourage his new socks on occasion, by replying as if I buy it, just to see what’s next.

              But if trolling here is not his job … Yikes. Can you imagine?

            • Ziontologist

              “And if trolling here is not his job … Yikes. Can you imagine?”

              Those are exactly my thoughts, not about Chocolate Whatsherface,but about some others on this blog. Yes, Scientology deserves to hated, but what else would they hate?

            • Ziontologist

              It’s ironic that you would confer with Captain Howdy about what a bad person I am. Did you know he’s the reason I lashed out? It was bad enough that someone else was giving me a hard time. As reasonable as I tried to be, Howdy shows up and goes ad hominem on me. Then he starts insulting my mom and dad, and I cursed him out. I went back and edited that, but still, at that point, I’d had enough.

            • Chocolate Velvet

              One thing, and one thing only, Z; a message from Mr. Velvet:

              He wants you to know that he is not a watcher, he does not post on this blog, so he doesn’t give a fuck about an ex-scientologist or their past “wins”. But, if you ever call me Chocolate Whorehouse again, you are going to have to explain yourself to him. And all that mewling bullshit about haters on this blog won’t hold any water with him, cause how does that lead to calling ME names?

              If your protestations of innocence are true — and they are not, of course — then walk the fucking talk and stop the phony crap.

            • Chocolate Velvet

              And believe me, he’s got to be pretty motivated to be bothered with a blog anyway. So, him posting here would be a real first, Mr Velvet hates the Internet…

            • Ziontologist

              Tell Mr Velvet that I not only apologize, but that I really regret calling you a bad name.

            • Chocolate Velvet

              Folks, if you want more insight into this kind of manipulative BS, just search the term “covert-aggressive personality” and read up on the ploys engaged in by such people.

              The shit-starting, the slurs and insults, and then the whining and playing the victim. This is a classic pattern.

              Z fishes for conflict, and then when he gets it, he edits comments and plays the official persecuted martyr of the blog. This role is obviously very important to him. Fascinating, to see someone actively trying to become the “goat” here.

              It does get him a lot of interaction with other commenters. Now, if I were to point out to Z that he called me a name, when I hadn’t had any interaction with him at all on this thread, he’d acknowledge it, apologize, and make some excuse. He’ll engage normally a few times, and then comes more covert-aggression. It’s happened before, when he was posting as StillKeyedOut all the time. He did it on
              the Rodeo blog. He does it here on a regular basis. Just notice the pattern…

            • Ziontologist

              That’s your perception, and with all due respect, it’s not entirely accurate.
              First of all, many of my comments are based on my personal experience. When someone speaks from their own experience, and people ridicule that, it’s hard not to take that personally.
              Secondly, when I first came to this blog, I was a given hard time that, in fact, surprised me. After that, I assumed it was a free for all. It was my first time blogging, and I didn’t know how I should deal with hurtful remarks. You can call that playing the victim if you want, but it’s true.

            • Ziontologist

              I am not a “covert-aggressive personality!”

              OK.
              I searched the term “cover-aggressive personality.”

              ” The tactics of deceit, manipulation and control are a steady diet for covert-aggressive personality. It’s the way they prefer to deal with others and to get the things they want in life.”

              That ain’t me. I am not deceitful, manipulative or controlling. If you only knew me. I may get depressed sometimes, and I can be hypersensitive. Too sensitive. I’ll cop to that.
              But I am honest, if nothing else. And, believe it or not, I have a lot of love in me for other people.

            • Ziontologist

              False.

          • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

            Ziontologist, while we in the Church of Scientology oppose lobotomies, we would not oppose having the state lobotomize you for the common good.

            • Ziontologist

              I think that may be the first time you made me laugh!

            • Captain Howdy

              That’s funny, because OTVIII isn’t joking.

      • http://www.facebook.com/ToryMagoo44 Tory Christman

        Third! whingeybingey—–OH MY GAWD>>>YES! Anonymous DID change *****everything****! History was made at the 1st picket, and has continued since!

    • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

      WWP changed nothing.

      And as much as we in RTC hate both WWP and Anderson Cooper, we are voting for Anderson Cooper just to stick it to Anonymous.

      Anonymous were paid $50 each per day by Big Pharma to attack Scientology. And the public record stands: All 16 members of Anonymous were arrested for crimes ranging from terrorism. drugs, sodomy, and threatening a religion.

      The Church of Scientology meanwhile has continued to expand into all 15,901 countries of the world on all 32 continents by offering its safe, effective, and proven solutions to life’s problems such as Scientology’s revolutionary State of OT where the thetan’s cognitions are POW! BAM! Life is never the same.

      And no, don’t you dare ask we in RTC about the disgusting perversions on the internet or we will walk right out of here:

      http://youtu.be/Bx0UaIC_d7Y

      • Chocolate Velvet

        OTVIIIisGrrr8!, I agree that Tommy’s lies are disgusting and perverted. Also, walking away from someone who is smearing your religion is pretty low Confront, isn’t it?

        But, what does that have to do with the Anons?

        • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

          What does it have to do with the Anons?

          Well let we in RTC tell you what it has to do with the Anons!

          SMERSH, the same group that pays Anonymous, also paid Martin Bashir to attack our former spokesperson just for the LULZ!

          This would not have happened if Ken Delusion, the new Church of Scientology spokesperson had been on post when Martin Bashir moved in for his sleazy attack.

          Our former spokesperson was just not that good on post.

          • Chocolate Velvet

            True, that. Tommy was a terrible spokesman, by any standard.

            But Tommy’s mom was actually famous. That gives him one up on David. Isn’t that the real reason David hates Tommy so, OTVIII? You can tell me…

            • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

              COB despises all of Scientology’s former spokespeople and executives because they all failed to handle the existing scene:

              * Criminal joking & degrading online and in the media about COB RTC David Miscavige

              * Criminal joking & degrading online and in the media about the Church of Scientology

              The Ideal Scene we in RTC are working toward in 2013:

              * COB RTC David Miscavige universally venerated, acclaimed, and embraced as the World Leader of the revived Holy Roman Empire

              * Scientology universally acclaimed and embraced as the One World Religion

              * All R6 implant religions outlawed

              * The Ideal Orgs turned into political centers because the Church of Scientology rules the world

              * All movie stars arrested and imprisoned. Only Tom Cruise and OT actors are allowed to act

              * Anonymous and Psychiatry destroyed along with SMERSH

              Help COB help you by helping COB create the Ideal Scene!

          • Jgg2012

            OT8, is it true that everything on earth is an optical illusion created by big pharma?

            • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

              No, that is not true. Only someone whose brain has been addled by Psych drugs would have such wrong think on the matter.

              What is true is that the world is hanging by a thread over the Pit of Hell and only Scientology can help.

              What is true is that your donation to the IAS today will make a better tomorrow.

      • Captain Howdy

        “Anonymous were paid $50 each per day by Big Pharma to attack Scientology”

        Wtf ? I’ve been “working” the Big 5 Anon/$ci vids 24/7/365 for at least the last 4 years and I’ve never seen one thin dime from any Pfizer mystery pimp. You got some contact info ? I’ll give you the usual 10% kickbac..er..finders fee.

        • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

          Capt. Howdy: Well of course the Psychs screwed you! They screw everybody!

          We in the Church of Scientology have been warning people about the Psychs since 1950 but does anyone listen to us?

          No!

          And so now the Psychs owe you back pay and aren’t returning your calls?

          What’s new?

          We suggest you do what we in Scientology do whenever we encounter a nasty problem and that is to call 1-800-WOG-ATTORNEY.

        • Observer

          I am 99.99% certain it’s the catfish. If it’s not the catfish I am still 100% certain it is neither British nor ex-Scientologist.

          • Captain Howdy

            I’ve suspected that Brandi never really left us and has been trying different identities out all this time. You may be right. I smell socks whoever it is.

            • Observer

              It was the incessant winking that first got my attention. Nobody who posts here has EVER done that but her. Then the writing style, the sly “aren’t I clever” and “look at me” posts, the dogging of Tony yesterday (which smelled of grudge), the fact that everything she says or writes rings false if you think about it at all, especially the vague responses to questions about her time in Scientology or Saint Hill … it just goes on.

      • whingeybingey

        Lol!! But enquiring minds want to know.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=661239103 Mimi Armagh Parrow

    Pugs HATE cults, just sayin.

  • AnonymousSP

    Love CNN and Cooper but WWP has been posting all things $cilon and gathering info from all the critics worldwide for years. They doesn’t afraid of anything.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Damian-DeWitt/100000143081032 Damian DeWitt

    I am defintely voting for WWP. It is the central forum for many decentralized local cells around the world.

    Project Chanology represents the first time in the history of Scientology that a sector of society rose up to hold Scientology accountable and that sector was the world’s young people, specifically the millennial generation whose first members were born in 1980, who are now 33.

    WWP does not tell the full story of Anonymous since many cells have their own local forums whose members may never have posted at WWP at all.

    The growth in the number of cells in the last five years has been remarkable. In 2008 there was only one cell in France, and now there are eleven, There are about a dozen cells in Germany.

    Looked at from the outside Chanology is a bunch of kids have a fine time trolling the cult, dancing, and eating delicious caek.

    But if you follow WWP you realize that anons do an enormous amount of quality research. More importantly in some cells anons went quietly about the work of building relationships with journalists and government officials.

    This has made a significant difference particularly in Germany, in Australia with Sen. Xenophon, and in Quebec in the successful campaign to shut down Narconon.

    Chanoloogy’s culture remains that of 4Chan and the other chans with five fundamental values: hilarity, passionate devotion to free speech, egalitarian structure, demands for documentation; and tough-minded and thick-skinned skepticism.

    Activiist groups turn over their membership about once every 14 months; and many in Chanology have passed through doing their service and then retiring to the Chanology inactive reserves.

    But anons keep coming and particularly young anons. The reports on raids from Germany, France, and Sweden in particular give evidence of the continuing appeal the fight against Scientology has for young people.

    I have been unable to find anything done by the millennial generation that can approach Chanology, and consider it the greatest achievement of the millennial generation.

    MiIllennials started the movement, gave it its culture and soul, and they continue to animate and run it.

    The media in the US has had little interest in Chanology and what interest they have shown is confined to the first eight months of 2008.

    This doesn’t bother anons very much because the culture is egalitarian and despises leaderfagging, rockstarring, and Unwarranted Self Importance.

    As a result there are no anons that are known to the broad public as individuals. Save one, and he is 15-years old – Epic Nose Guy, who famously got charged in 2008 in London for his sign, “Scientology is a dangerous cult.”

    He has been referenced in several legal cases.

    In October of 2008 Paulette Cooper wrote, “Anonymous has done more in nine months than I have in fifteen years.”

    Jenna Miscavige Hill in her new book gives a big shout out to Anonymous saying that beleagured ex-Scientoloogists felt relieved when Anonymous showed up because they no longer felt alone and felt that at last someone in society cared.

    Anderson Cooper is a cool guy, but he has had nowhere near the historic impact that Anonymous has had in bringing about “the dismantling of the Church of Scientology in its present form” as one mission statement of Project Chanology puts it.

    • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

      NO DAMIEN NO!

      Chanology is a demented hashish-smoking band of assassins and anarcho-terrorists hired by SMERSH to attack Mankind’s only hope of salvation.

      Actual research shows that fully 100% of Chanologists are itinerant carnival workers who have spent hard time in prison and have as many fake names as they do tattoos.

      As compared to the standard criminal population helped by Criminon, Chanologists are fifty times more likely to have a history of arrest for four or more felonies; are twenty times more likely to use hard drugs at least thirty times per week; and have at least 1,200 or more sex partners in any given twelve month period and so yes, Chanology is in a straight downward descent into the dwindling spiral and they will all die alone and in the dark.

      • Chocolate Velvet

        Oh, OTVIII! Did David tell you to say that? I keep telling him to lay off the head games!

        I do feel bad for David — abandoned by most of his family, and left to wheeze away his days with his terribly incompetent staff. But, when he locks himself in his room and blasts his terrible music, it’s because David knows that he is the one who is likely to die alone and in the dark. In the “eagle’s nest”, as the Feds come, with cold steel and gun oil on his tongue.

        Trying to project that on the Anons won’t change it. OTVIII, tell David, he needs to change his ways, and CV is ready to help him.

        • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

          CV, we in RTC are unable to relay your message to COB RTC David Miscavige as he is in the Vatican presiding over the conclave that will elect him to be the next Pope: http://otviiiisgrrr8.com/2013/02/11/pope-david-miscavige-to-lead-the-catholic-church/

          As Pope, COB will have an even larger bedroom to lock himself in. While his new bedroom will be filled with priceless art, he will still keep his Bobby Sherman posters. Being Pope will not change COB’s musical tastes:

          http://youtu.be/QJOuTr0BXb4

          • sugarplumfairy

            Lol.. He WISHES he could command an audience like this!!

            ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-L0qfFxiTM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

          • Chocolate Velvet

            Is that where David told you in the RTC he’s been? The Vatican? Why would you believe that, OTVIII? You know how delusional David can be!

            Wow. Just, wow. All I can say is: steroids, scotch, and those awful energy drinks are a baaaad combination.

            At least David is walking in the footsteps of the Leader — straight towards catastrophic decompensation, and psych meds.

            Soon comes the stint in the RV, and the screaming at the BT’s, and the things of this nature. Well, I tried to warn him…

          • grundoon
        • Poison Ivy

          What’s his musical taste? I know I read this somewhere but it’s gone out of my head.

      • Missionary Kid

        Great Scion math! (Extra-terrestrial version).

      • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

        and have at least 1,200 or more sex partners in any given twelve month period

        Where do I join?

  • Scientology Kills

    Tony, just found a JEWEL of a news item this morning. It seems that L Ron will be a character on Season 5 of The Venture Brothers. http://video.adultswim.com/the-venture-bros/the-venture-bros-season-5-sneak-peak.html

    • Observer

      Loooove the Venture Brothers!

    • EnthralledObserver

      “A reckoning is coming…” and Lawrence said that too. lol “Ron…LRon…”

    • Chocolate Velvet

      Hilarious. Ron apparently has some sort of robot with a TV screen in its chest to fight for him.

      “…do you yield?”
      “Go to hell-Ron, L Ron!!”

      Can’t wait to see that episode…

  • http://twitter.com/tetloj tetloj

    loldogz. alwayz. phunny.

  • sugarplumfairy

    Anderson Cooper has done some good stuff.. But WWP is legendary.. and legend.. and relentless.. and unyielding..

    And as for the staring, I actually participated in a few of these sessions years ago when bf was being absorbed into the Borg.. He really wanted me to take the course with him, but I was already determined that those smiling, persistent salespeople weren’t getting any of my money.. But he’d talk me into trying it with him when we were together and it would usually end up in a lot of fun..

    I didn’t take it seriously at first.. But then he wanted to try bull-baiting with me.. One session of that was all it took for me to call my mom and dad, his mom and dad, my nursing school psych advisor, the CAN and the LMT to try and figure out what was happening and how I could help him.. Turns out I couldn’t.. I hate the co$ for what it does to good people..

    • Trustmeonthis

      Oh, how awful. You’ve mentioned this before, but hearing more about it makes me so sad. Glad you stayed out.

    • Chocolate Velvet

      Amen, amen, and amen (as they say). I could not agree more.

      It is not easy to watch someone step right off a cliff like that, and they won’t heed your warning. I’m glad you saw through the con right away, SPF, and you’re here to add your voice.

  • Snippy_X

    Tony, please don’t actually do any of these exercises, lest we loose you to the cult mind control. I would love to hear how an expert on hypnosis would describe what is happening here. I believe Hubbard looked at CIA interrogation materials and studied hypnosis techniques. His motives seem to be trapping and controlling people by shutting down their critical thinking. The TR’s are part of this, I’m certain, but exactly how that works is still a mystery to me.

    • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

      Each of these exercises seems to be designed to force people to do unnatural, boundary violating actions and to disregard their natural healthy instincts to cringe and protect themselves.

      That is exactly what they are. They are designed to make victims, and to make victims “blush” when they are being victimized, as if they are the ones doing something wrong.

  • Bob

    Clair’s description is accurate but she leaves out that the Success Through Communication course is geared towards use in life and everyday communication not really for auditor training. So it is different than the communication course for auditors, Which is far more difficult and does require a 2 hour confront.(not required on the STC course). There is value to the course for some people who have difficulties with comminicating with others. The part Claire described about being touched etc. is now forbidden. During the time she described it was acceptable.
    If used properly the STC course could substitute for a good public speaking mini-course as it could be used to get rid of bad habits like ticks, spasms, unintentional mannerisms, unnatural body movements etc. and that could be very valuable. An example. A co-worker I know communicates very well with others but he has a habit of tapping his right foot unconsciously. It gets very distracting. Since I know him well I ignore it. But for a new client it could be very off putting. The TR0 part is there so that a person can sit comfortably in front of someone without any unconscious movements or reactions. Often this does result in the unnatural staring. But the emphasis is on being natural now.

    • EnthralledObserver

      “The part Claire described about being touched etc. is now forbidden” Geeze, I wonder why? A little too much ‘taking advantage of young innocents’ going on back then? Then again… what part of this whole shebang isn’t taking advantage?
      “Do what we say, put up with what we do, don’t question anything, and you will find freedom… away from that nasty thing called reality. Don’t trust ME, trust LRON.” *hideous and deceptive smile*

      • Bob

        As someone who has seen many changes in the church, in earlier times members could question things without harm. Now, as you say it is forbidden, unless you want a session with the thought police. But this only occurs once they think you are fully indoctrinated. They ride the fine line of how far they can go with a new person.

        • EnthralledObserver

          I think you’ll find, Bob, that LRon’s way of letting followers know he was not to be questioned was very present – subtle maybe – but present nonetheless. You see, dear LRon very deliberately and deviously did not provide ANY research notes nor any way to varify his ‘findings’… therefore, how can anyone question him – he IS source – as all good Scilons do, LRon did too – to prove he is right he directed the questioner to something else he made up… er, wrote. Take your blinkers off, my dear, it’s not JUST Davey.

          • Bob

            My statement was that people could question things without harm. Thats not a super positive statement. Regarding his research, followers took what he taught, applied it, saw that it worked as he described it and were then convinced. He did not do formal research and I think that was a huge mistake on his part. He could have done it. Hubbard modified his techniques as they were being used if he saw they were not working. So he would listen to reports of failures and criticism. I don’t put it all on DM though.
            But DM makes changes in Scientology, they don’t work and if you complain the Hammer of Thor comes down on your head. People easily forget that Ultimately Frankenstein’s monster was created by Dr. Hubberstein.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Maybe some might have gotten away with it, but are you ignoring or denying the anecdotes of overboardings and locking people away in chain lockers and pushing peanuts around the decks with noses… you don’t really think people did something ‘wrong’ to deserve such punishments? Not doing things precisely as LRon wanted them done is a form of questioning in his eyes, I feel. In his old age this paranoia made him retreat and become a virtual recluse instead of dishing out punishments… his control sphere just became narrower.
              As for changes – Hubbard has a history of changing things for his benefit, not others’ benefits. He had to keep the show rumbling along otherwise he’d risk his income, therefore some reaction to feedback was required. Davey has chosen a different method to fleece his flock – and hasn’t chosen to react appropriately to feedback, and the result is that he’s risked his income – its diminishing as we speak.

            • Bob

              Not ignoring it. Hubbard had numerous flaws and did many things I don’t agree with. Your description of his latter years are accurate. As he was fond of saying. “He was hoisted by his own petard”. As I said in an earlier post, Like Dr. Frankenstein he created a monster. So even though I think he came up with some very workable philosophy, he failed in his over all intention, which then contests whether what he stated was actually his true intention.

    • MarionDee

      Any good course in relaxation will rid you of habits like tapping your foot and other mannerisms. As usual, the result can be easily attained, at much less cost or no cost at all, outside Scientology, and in a much less damaging way.

      • Bob

        Agreed. A good public speaking course could achieve the same.

        • EnthralledObserver

          So then do you also agree that the possible perceived benefits might be incidental, and that the real purpose of these TR’s could be nefarious by intention?

          • Bob

            That is the outcome as it stands now. The unfortunate thing that I have mentioned before is that staff and public at the lower levels genuinely believe what they are doing works and is helpful. They do approach it with good intentions. But once you move up, the intentions are pretty f–ked and that is were it counts. So, yes, I do agree.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Well, you sort of dodged that question, so I’ll re-state it more clearly. Do you agree that it is possible/probable that LRon devised the TR’s to work as the beginnings of the trap?

            • Bob

              No. Having watched him and observed the use of the materials first hand I do not see that.
              I guess an analogy would be Einstein. Did he develope his theories for the good of man or their destruction. Certainly he must have seen where it would lead to. He was a brilliant mind.

              To answer your question! it is possible. I personally do not feel it is probable. The fact is that many valuable discoveries are used for evil rather than good. And that’s where Scientology sits right now.

            • EnthralledObserver

              I could believe that if it were just a ‘self-help’ strategy, but as soon as LRon slapped on the religious cloak that possibility goes out the window… Hubbard wanted full control, and gained full control by placing himself and Scientology out of arm’s reach of the authorities and societies rules by hiding behind the religious cloak. He knew it wasn’t a religion, but pretended it was for the benefits to him and his goals. Then he went and invented Xenu… and the thing went all cuckoo. If Hubbard wasn’t responsible for where it went, then his involvement would have stopped at the research, findings stage…(like Einstein) but it didn’t. No, Hubbard orchestrated the machine himself and led it to where it is today. I will only concede that Davey took his own evil twist and implemented it too; that is not Hubbard, but all the rest is.

            • Bob

              My last post to you answered this.

            • Sidney18511

              In 1964 LRH turned to his best friend Reg Sharpe and said that he came up with a scheme that would make them the most powerful and controlling organization on the planet. His friend said that this is when LRH entered the dark side.

            • Bob

              It seems to how turned out that way. Sure did not help him in the end.

            • Sidney18511

              Go to paulsrabbit.com and read the free books some written by the first people involved. It was a scam from the beginning. A very well laid out scam.

            • FistOfXenu

              Oh, so he was still okay when he was trying to create a Moon Child with Jack Parsons? Or lying his way through the 1st 13 years of Diarrhetics and $cientology? Or his 1st 2 marriages (and yeah I do know he never had a 2nd wife). Good to know.

            • Sidney18511

              My, my, Fox….no need to get snippy. I was only relating what was documented in a book from someone who spoke to this dude. LRH was nuts. He never intended to help anybody but himself and this was confirmed by his best bud” it was meant to be a money making scam. The book can be found at paulsrabbit.com, “dart smohen: the real story”.

            • FistOfXenu

              Sorry Sidney, that bit about Ron not entering the dark side til 1964 is laughable. I wasn’t aiming for snippy I was aiming for sarcasm. Guess I missed.

            • CraftLass

              Didn’t Einstein lament the evil that did come from his work? I don’t think he saw that result from the beginning. I think it haunted him once he did see that result, from what I’ve read. Might have to go re-read a few books, been awhile… :)

              However, if Hubbard was more like Einstein he would have had his wife checking to see if his ideas really worked. ;) Instead, he just insisted that they did and expanded upon his early work to create something that was purely for his own benefit.

            • Bob

              I saw Hubbard change things that were not working. First hand. And not for his own benefit.
              And He even wrote that his work could be turned into black Scientology. And what he warned against has come to pass.

            • CraftLass

              Fascinating, thank you! Can you give any examples or point me towards more information? I’m working hard at learning all of this, good, bad, and ugly. I don’t believe in black and white. Nothing, and no one, is that simple.

            • Trustmeonthis

              While I personally don’t believe that it was ever intended as anything but a way to bring people in the door, I do want to say I really respect you, Bob, for having this conversation and actually thinking about things. Right on.

            • Bob

              Scientology was suppose teach us to “know how to know” Instead it taught us “to know how to obey the MASTER”. As a person I have grown more in the last year than for many millennia. Thank you for acknowledging that TMOT.

            • Poison Ivy

              Once again, the “Cheese in the mousetrap” analogy – the TR’s obviously convince people to come back for more, ergo they must have a positive effect on a significant percentage. Part of that “win” may be more perceived than real (or perceived to be more monumental than it really was, with all the applauding and congratulating and love bombing afterward), but the point is, whatever people get out of the lower levels is enough to convince them that they’ll get even better goodies as they go “up the ladder.” And then stick a fork in ‘em, they’re done.

            • Bob

              Yes. That seems to be the case. But more like they start removing organs, the heart first and then the brain and presto change-o a clambot.

            • FistOfXenu

              You forgot the wallet, Bob. They manage to start that early but drag it out forever.

            • Bob

              The wallet is never removed. Only periodically drained. They used to call it bleeding the patient in the Middle Ages. It was suppose to be a cure for what ails you.

            • FistOfXenu

              Ah, that’s how it works. Thanks for clarifying.

            • Bob

              A Very graphic Procedure :-)

            • Anonymookme

              Wasn’t the end game always to suck in more fresh meat and more $$$?
              Also seems to me that from the get go they set out to appeal to the ego. The whole “saving the planet”, TC’s ludicrous “we’re the only ones who can help”. Little things like reaching out, one on one to another person to help them when they might be down and out is simply not enough for a grandiose Sciloon.
              All of the training & the “courses” are intended to turn your mind to mush & encourage you to go out, suck more people in so the process of turning their minds to mush can commence.

            • Bob

              The lofty goal drives people to do all manner of silly and foolish things. And a few practical and positive things for the planet. That goal is what motivates to do things that normal people would not consider. The organization is like any person it wants to survive.

            • Anonymookme

              What “practical & positive” things are you referring to?

              Can these practical & positive things be achieved simply by being a kind, compassionate & decent person, without all of the sci-fi mumbo jumbo & crazy gibberish?

            • Bob

              A few very practical inventions created by Scions, some of the community charity donations I have seen. And there a re many decent people in the church who may be programmed to support the church but they also go out of there way to help those around them not just church members.

    • CoolHand

      Bob, TR’s are used for controlling and being controlled. IMO, they are not valuable for anything in reality outside of Hubbard’s made-up world. Drills for communication are one thing, but being forced to to do the things in TR’s primarily improves a person’s susceptibility to indoctrination. I don’t think you’ll find much love here on this thread defending TR’s.

      • Bob

        No I see that. And I also see both sides of the coin. In an earlier post I was pretty clear about how the drills turn into indoctrination once one falls into the rabbit hole.

    • 0tessa

      I have seen a person with autistic traits getting opened up to communication (e.g. looking really at a person) on this course. It is true that some persons some times have indeed wins on these lower courses. It depends a lot who supervised the training also. In a courseroom quite far from any sea org robot, at the other side of the ocean, it was all very relaxed. But that is all a long time ago I’m afraid.

      • Bob

        I am sure. It is my contention that church would shrivel and die without the aid of a few truly talented people who are able to help and inspire others. Missions are missions are more personal. Orcs, I mean Orgs are scary places.

    • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

      If these things worked in the slightest, Scientologists would not be significantly worse at communicating with the rest of the world than other people are. Scientologists are reviled for their strange ways of writing and talking for very good reason. Courses like these make them unlearn any communication skills they might otherwise have.

      Sitting with no unconscious movements or reactions is not “comfortable”. It is unnatural, and is likely one of the reasons Scientologists give off such deeply weird vibes.

      • Bob

        I assume then you have communicated with thousands of scientologists and have watched them every day dealing with non-scientologists. I have found them to have about the same consistency as non-church members. Some good some lousy and some fruit cakes. You speak as if all of them are reviled.
        All of them are worse. Correct me if I am misinterpreting what you just posted.

      • FistOfXenu

        One thing why they aren’t always brilliant communicating with real people is, the Comms course isn’t the only way the cult teaches its members how to communicate. Once you learn the drills the cult uses the drills to teach you how to respond to all the different situations you’re in. The drills portray winning (being at cause) and losing (being at effect) in communications. When you’re doing the will of $cientarCONon you’re expected to be at cause. When you’re receiving orders, being punished, being sec checked, or anything like that, you’re expected to be at effect.

        So when you’re body routing or regging or auditing or on a managerial post or anything like that you better be at cause. But if you’re in a situation where a superior’s ripping you a new asshole for something, and you just better stay fully present and vulnerable and not react or sass back or do anything except take it and then conform to what’s expected. And it doesn’t take long to recognize that because your superiors know exactly how to verbally hammer you down until you accept that you’re at effect unless you want things to get even worse.

        That means that what a $cientarCONonist calls communication is plain and simple an attempt to recognize where power flows and how to position yourself so the power warms you but doesn’t burn you.

    • DeElizabethan

      I’m so happy that they at last stopped the touching part. Can you imagine a young child going through that?
      Claire went through a horrible part of the tech and maybe in some way because of her an maybe others they discontinued that. Only reason I suppose is that they knew it would go public. Thank you Claire for sharing your pains and also sharing the happiness you now have. I’m enjoying this series with you.

      • Bob

        Yes, finally some Non-clam PR person probably recommended they start monitoring some of the illegal activities done as part of the LRH tech and that they better quit doing those things.

  • scnethics

    The WhyWeProtest guys will win for sure. And if they don’t, one of them will hack PollDaddy and change the score so that they do.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Lol. And true

    • i-Betty

      Haha!

  • http://twitter.com/Racnad Racnad

    I’ll go out on a limb and say that the TRs are beneficial for some people with poor communication skills. But not everyone grows up with poor communication skills, and some people are natually skilled communicators without ever doing TRs. And to say that TRs are the only way to acheive excellent communication skills is like saying Nautilus gym equipment is the only way to acheive excellent physically fitness.

    I also agree that it is a form of indochrination. Because there is a thread of logic to the TRs – communication skills which are usefull when dealing with others, the student is taught to accept everything in the HCOBs, and the drills themslves become ritualist when performed ad nauseum.

    Also the Scientologese idiom have “good TRs” or have one’s “TRs in” confuses the drills with the skills they were supposed to develop, and leads one to subtly believe that anyone who has not been exposed to Standard Tech TRs and drilled them extensively cannot possibly be as effective of a communicator or have their “TRs in” as much as someone who has completed a Standard Tech TRs.

    • MarionDee

      You say that TRs can help people with bad communication skills, but with the best will in the world, I can’t see how that’s possible. The examples Claire gives (the ones that aren’t part of auditor training, if I understand the article right) show how people are taught to ignore and not respond to what’s going on around them. That isn’t communication, it is self-imposed isolation. Yes, sitting in front of someone else without feeling self-conscious could encourage relaxation, but I was taught relaxation, for free, by a gym teacher. And what is the point of doing it with your eyes closed? I could understand that if you are learning to pick up information about the other person through the other senses, but there’s no mention of that. Then there’s looking at someone else without blinking. I can’t see the benefit in this. Looking is not seeing/taking in/receiving. And looking out without wavering (even blinking) is a stare or a glare–what a basilisk does. It’s also bad for your eyes (there’s a biological reason for blinking).

      The trauma of bullbaiting seems obvious.

      How do these drills help someone learn to communicate? How do they make someone sensitive to and secure with other people? Imposing your will or making yourself heard through sheer repetition or
      bullheadedness is not communication, and shutting out abuse (as in bullbaiting) destroys self-respect and replaces it with a retreat from the world. I really don’t get it.

      It’s possible that these techniques could encourage someone to speak up, but that’s not the same as communicating effectively. The LaRouche cult helped my husband speak up. He did it arrogantly, often cruelly, and without having listened. He thought he was succeeding, but didn’t notice that people who weren’t Rouchies turned away, shuddering. He was full of confidence, I admit, but couldn’t read how others responded. So he was changed, but not improved.

      I’m sorry if this sounds quarrelsome, Racnad. It’s not meant to. I’m just stumped, that’s all.

      • Scientia

        OT TR0: meditative; enabled me to be calm and comfortable in close proximity to another.

        TR0 Confronting: as above; also helped erase major anxiety and difficulties maintaining eye contact with others.

        TR0 Bullbait: as above; enabled me to remain calm and less “reactive” during heated conversation or moments of antagonism.

        The other TRs and comm drills (there were about 18 in all when I did them in 1997) taught me basic skills such as acknowledging people, getting my point across despite “noise” or interruption, keeping a conversation going and also ending it off. It may seem strange to many here but at that time in my life I was severely lacking in social skills and was a desperately shy and introverted young lad. Unpopular as it is, and as vile and abusive as I know the Co$ now to be, I’m bloody grateful I had the opportunity to do it.

        • MarionDee

          I truly am glad it worked well for you. But I guess I don’t understand a lot about TRO: specifically, why the word “confrontation” is used for maintaining eye contact with others. Confrontation is hostile. Surely simple belief in oneself (and though I use the word “simple,” I know that’s it’s not always easily achieved) is what’s needed when looking someone else in the eye. That’s the first building block … being easy within your own skin and within your own identity as a person. Staring someone down or meeting him/her, stare-for-stare, is an unusual method to achieve that, because meeting someone’s eye isn’t a contest. Other people aren’t the enemy, and it’s not the Coliseum. It is simply a moment. In other words, I think this ease and calm with others could be achieved by the more meditative OT TRO …. but with eyes open, and open in the normal way.

          Re bullbaiting, I may be using the wrong definition of “reactive” now, but in non-Sci language, you can react to hostility calmly and without antagonism by acknowledging the other person, but not being threatened by them. As described, being bullbaitrf seems to be (at best) about stoicism and at worst about denial, burying your own suffering and shutting things out.

          But thank you for explaining. If these things truly helped you, I have no right to question your particular experience.

          • http://twitter.com/Racnad Racnad

            Scientia wrote the response I was going to write. But as others have pointed out, when done ritualistically, TRs produce side-effects like culturally innapropriate amounts of eye-contact and robotic communication. As for confrontation, this is a diffrerent sense of the word, just as “argument” isn’t necessarily a shouting match.

          • Scientia

            “I guess I don’t understand a lot about TRO: specifically, why the word ‘confrontation’ is used for maintaining eye contact with others. Confrontation is hostile.”

            Not necessarily. The word “confront” simply means “to face”, from medieval Latin confrontari “to stand face to face with”.

            “…In other words, I think this could be achieved by the more meditative OT TRO …. but with eyes open, and open in the normal way.”

            That is exactly how it is supposed to be. It is not a staring contest, or at least it wasn’t when I did it (mine wasn’t blinkless). If I was doing anything other than what you just described then I was not doing the drill as taught to me.

            “Re bullbaiting, you can react to hostility calmly and without antagonism by acknowledging the other person, but not being threatened by them. As described, being bullbaited seems to be (at best) about stoicism and at worst about denial, burying your own suffering and shutting things out.”

            On its own I can see why perhaps you might think that. There were drills later in my course that dealt directly with what you suggest but what Bullbaiting did for me first was reduce my “bull in a china shop” urge to retaliate and exacerbate a situation. Some people have to stop, bite their tongue and try to calm themselves before trying to communicate further in a particular situation. Bullbaiting helped me learn to stay calm without actually having to stop and try to be.

            “But thank you for explaining. If these things truly helped you, I have no right to question your particular experience.”

            No worries at all. Question away! You definitely have that right. :)

            • MarionDee

              Well, I do wish the word “confront” wasn’t used in the first place. Absolutely, it can mean “face” … but people usually think of its more hostile meaning first. Even the word “face” implies that a kind of courage must be summoned up simply to interact with someone freely.

              As I said above, it would be arrogant to doubt that you and Racnad were helped if you say you were, and I’m glad that you benefitted from these drills. But I don’t see how someone who didn’t have problems communicating would benefit from what Claire describes, and I can see many ways that people with and without such problems would be harmed.

          • DeElizabethan

            May I add that a person who for whatever reason has not confidence and fear from whatever reason, cannot look into another’s eyes. They can benefit as it is used as a drill, but not to blatantly confront a person. One needs to not have his own mind interfere with that looking, but to be in present time and comfortably look at another. Nowadays there are other avenues to learn this present time ability if needed. Simple meditation, same as eyes closed TR, a gradient, can be helpful to those that want it. The cof$ is just outdated.
            I swear, I wasn’t going to comment tonight and here I am, with my big mouth. Where’s BTN’s?

          • grundoon

            Marion, the word Hubbard repurposes here is not confrontation but confront, which he teaches Scientologists to use as a noun. A person has some amount of confront which can vary from moment to moment, in the same way that people can have fluctuating amounts of vigor, wealth or alertness. The higher your
            confront, the more you are inclined to face up to a thing that may be difficult for you, instead of turning away.

            Hubspeak isn’t exactly English although it’s made up largely of words that Hubbard borrowed from English and repurposed. He intentionally changed the usage and substituted different meanings that suited his purposes. L. Ron Hubbard often chose words for their positive or negative associations in English while repurposing them with very different significance – some examples are communication, ethics and freedom. This is of such importance that he wrote a whole Policy Letter instructing his Guardian’s Office (Scientology’s KGB) in the technique: HCOPL 5 Oct 71 Propaganda by Redefinition of Words.

            The trick is-WORDS ARE REDEFINED TO MEAN SOMETHING ELSE TO THE ADVANTAGE OF THE PROPAGANDIST. … Many instances of this exist. They are not “natural” changes in language. They are propaganda changes, carefully planned and campaigned in order to obtain a public opinion advantage for the group doing the propaganda. Given enough repetition of the redefinition public opinion can be altered by altering the meaning of a word. The technique is good or bad depending on the ultimate objective of the propagandist. … The redefinition of words is done by associating different emotions and symbols with the word than were intended. The American Medical Association and the National Association for Mental Health in England and South Africa and the British Psychological Association in Australia have been working very hard to redefine Scientology in the public mind. Two things occur because of this – the Scientologists are redefining “doctor,” “psychiatry” and “psychology” to mean “undesirable anti-social elements” and are trying to stabilize the actual meaning of “Scientology.” … A consistent, repeated effort is the key to any success with this technique of propaganda. One must know how to do it.

            • MarionDee

              Wonderful information. Thank you so much!

        • DeElizabethan

          I agree with you. It was something that helped in my life. Now the getting hooked part well, that got me back in the 70’s and I’m sorry for that part of my weakness and not listening to folks who were warned me. Those wins do cost one to be sure.

  • scnethics

    When I did the communication course (and other courses with TRs), there was no touching in the bullbait sessions. If someone is touching you inappropriately, the reaction should be noisy and violent. Again, I never saw this in the courserooms where I did TRs, but if children were trained this way, it would make them more vulnerable to abusers.

    • grundoon

      When this was done to Claire, it might not have been in an ordinary org courseroom. Seems unlikely that a 10-year-old would be twinned with a 50-year-old predator to co-audit and get each other through the comm course. More likely, he was OT or in some position of authority.

  • Captain Howdy

    The Top 5 Anon scientology vids on YouTube have approx. 22,000,000 views (with approx 800,000 comments).

    That’s approx 21,890,000 more views than all of the official church of scientology/CCHR etc vids combined.

    • sugarplumfairy

      dude.. Your stats aren’t due ’til Thursday..

      • Poison Ivy

        Good one, sugar!

  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

    I am going to throw in a minority report, here. Now, I haven’t had any kool-aid recently and I think L.Ron was about as low as the Marianas trench. But I think I got something worthwhile from the TR’s.

    I became more self-aware and under most situations the goofy kid that I was could communicate better. My eyes didn’t dance around while talking to people. I was more conscious of the timbre of my voice, and the expression on my face.

    There were two major problems, however. I started saying, “Thank You,” to everything. I was gently told by my brother that it was peculiar and that I should moderate my behaviour which I did. The other problem, of course, was huge. I was on the on ramp to Xenu. Really though, if they didn’t do something worthwhile, at least in the early stages, no one would stay around to have their brain washed, hung out to dry and then fried like a piece of bacon.

    • Missionary Kid

      I believe that there are a number of different reasons that people get sucked into Co$. They do have one thing in common: the recruits are in a state of flux.

      We all have those periods in our lives. We go through developmental stages, the physical ones are from infancy through puberty. In the emotional stage of early adulthood, we become more aware of the world around us, and we start to question where we fit in the world.

      The other times when a person is in flux are, for instance, entering or leaving a relationship, moving, or starting or leaving a profession when a person is uncertain. Sometimes, Co$ just takes advantage of a person by exploiting one’s natural self-doubt. The personality test creates or reinforces self-doubt.

      At all of those points, Co$ stands up and shouts, “We have the answers. We’ll make you better.” Then they love bomb the victim, isolate them from outside influences, and pull some parlor tricks on them to make them believe they’ve had a transforming experience and have special powers or abilities.

      I have never been a clam, but I have been in the military. Once you sign the contract or are drafted, in boot camp, you are isolated, put in disorienting experiences, pushed beyond what you think were your
      limits to discover you can do much more, deprived of sleep, and finally, when you conform and do things the way they want, you are told you are one of the elite. The difference between that and Co$ is that you are not turned against your family and the outside world to isolate you further. In the military, when you are not doing your military duties, you’re given liberty and leave to join the outside world.

      Both experiences are transformational. I think the military would have taught you the same lessons, in a shorter time, without the ultimate amount of alienation from the rest of the world that Co$ engenders. The isolation in Co$ is not immediate and temporary, as in the military, but it is slower and more insidious. The goal of the military is to get a job done. The goal of Co$ is to make you an unquestioning slave, thinking that they’ve brought about beneficial changes in your life that wouldn’t be available elsewhere.

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        Thanks for the excellent analysis and commentary. You got it. I had never considered the parallels between the military and the CoS. They are thought provoking.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Eckert/100002715429426 Robert Eckert

          The Sea Org doesn’t dress up and play Navy for nothing. LRH never made himself a useful member of the military, but he recognized the importance of the control mechanisms.

          • Missionary Kid

            Exactly.

            The difference is that the Sea Org gives the outward appearance of organization, but for both LRH and DM, there is really little or no hierarchical structure. It is set up so that everyone more or less serves at the whim of the Fearless Leader. That way, they fear being demoted at any time, and the uncertainty keeps them on their toes and loyal to the leader — personally, not to the position.

            I’m not that familiar with the exact structure of Co$, but I’ll bet that if the organization were laid out on a chart according to title, it would be substantially different than the real way that things are controlled.

            Hitler pitted his subordinates against each other, and reaped the benefits, putting all the power in his hands. He also paid the price, because he didn’t trust any of his subordinates’ advice: he blamed all failures on others and took credit for any successes. Sound familiar?

            In the military during battle, the authority of the commander is close to absolute, but there are laws and regulations that govern that authority even then. During non-battle conditions, that power has many more restrictions.

            The Sea Org sounds as if it is operated as if Co$ is at war all the time, and there are no real restrictions on the actions and behavior of DM.

            • Johan

              It’s a vey standard cult trick to keep people in crisis mode permanently (often coupled with lack of sleep and lots of rituals like meditation, training, chanting etc). It prevents you from stopping yourself to think: “what am I doing?”.
              I agree with your comparison with the military, it occurred to me a while ago that the military posses a number of the characteristics of a cult, and can be turned into one quite easily – explains history a bit better doesn’t it?

            • Missionary Kid

              I believe that’s why it’s important to have citizen-soldiers rather than soldier-citizens.

              Co$, and the Hare Krishnas, and, as I remember it, the Moonies do a lot of sleep deprivation. At least the military has liberties and leaves and allows soldiers to pretty much worship as they want. Once you’re in the military, you’re in for a set period of time. For the others, there’s an open-ended commitment. The billion-year contract is basically unenforceable, I believe, because it is slavery or indentured servitude.

        • Missionary Kid

          The thing that I spotted was your age at being exposed to Co$. That’s prime fishing ground for Co$ (as well as military recruiters). A person has some life experiences, but not ones strong or varied enough at that age to look at it skeptically. To them, it is a game, to you, it was a new experience.

          My advice is to use your Co$ experience to avoid being manipulated and pushed around again, but also to go against their twisted, self-centered goals and become more empathetic.

          • Exterrier

            Exactly, Mish….. I am actually glad I did it for a while, as an adult, and came out unscathed. Boy, I was lucky not to have family in it…just my own little temporary adventure after a broken marriage. It taught me both the lessons you mention in your final sentence. I am amazed you were not a member, you are good observer.

            • Missionary Kid

              Your previous life experience helped you, and you at least got out unscathed. Imagine what it would be like if you grew up in it and had no experience to compare it with.

              Being the child of missionaries, I’ve observed the way that churches of all sizes operate, as well as how dogma is used to control people, especially in fundamentalist churches. I’ve also been in the service and I’ve worked for people who have the same kind of management style as LRH and DM, but without the power over personal lives. Co$ mixes the worst of all of them.

              I first came in contact with Dianetics in about 1956 or 58, when my oldest sister briefly got involved.

              By the time I again came in contact, I had heard enough to know that I was being lied to when a cute girl accosted me in the street outside of a $cientology building and I let her give me a “personality test.” i gave her a fake last name, address, and phone number and got the hell out of there. I hate recruiting mendacity.

            • Exterrier

              I wonder if the cute girl recruiter was in Pasadena, Ca. In around seventy three or four, we used to sit across from the mission on Colorado Boulevard, in Chef’s Broiler, and watch this attractive girl in a low cut top and mini skirt wait on the sidewalk holding some books. When a guy came along, she would drop the books in front of him, then bend low as he helped her pick them up. Within a minute she would have conducted the fellow into the building, for a personality test, I now know, and we’d never see him leave. But within minutes, she would be out front, dropping more books. We called her the Scientology Hooker, and would sit by the window whenever we ate there, just to watch her work. Little did I know then that I would get involved two decades later. But it was partly love that brought me in, in fact.

            • Missionary Kid

              Nope, this was Santa Barbara, and the mission had just moved into a multi-story building someplace downtown. The girl had a clipboard and started asking questions herself, and I could tell it was pretty much according to a formula. I think it was in the late 60s, but the memory is pretty hazy, and it could have been in the middle 70s.

              Maybe I didn’t get to the personality test, but I remember her asking if there was something that bothered me, and answering that the thing that really bothered me the most was people who posed as something different than what they were, meaning her. I thought I was being unsubtle, but either she didn’t catch on, or she was so intent on landing me that she kept probing along those lines. I vaguely remember that she seemed to be new to the job, and that there were other people around. I got the hell out of there after giving someone a fake last name, phone number, and address, so they wouldn’t contact me

      • Chocolate Velvet

        So well said, MK. I think the military is definitely the blueprint for L Ron’s crazy, and you explain very well the difference, and how he took it off the rails and made it into scientology.

        • Exterrier

          So right. Look up,on line or in a used book store Navy Bluejacket Manual, and you will see the exact template that Elron copied for,his tech vols and policy manuals. I had read one before being exposed to scn, and laughed at the exact similarity in the numbering of the issues and policy letters. My dad,,who,worked in Navy schools and took courses as an enlistee in the 1930’s, was startled at how the check sheet course system exactly paralleled that of the U.S. Navy.

          • Missionary Kid

            LRon copied and stole ideas from whatever source he could, then used the control to his own advantage. It’s ironic that he was subject to the same rules, screwed up, then used the checks and balances to weasel his way out. There are no checks and balances in Co$.

            • Exterrier

              Yes, C of $ is a dictatorship, operating on a permanent war basis. One emergency to another, ridiculous and nonsensical deadlines, conflicting orders, all night pushes, just to keep up the sense of dislocation and urgency. Quite Orwellian. The Navy is sometimes nonsensical like that, but ultimately has far more accountability, and yes, some actual checks and balances.

            • Missionary Kid

              To paraphrase Heinlein, in Glory Road, who was quoting someone else: The Military tactical organization that writes orders is made up of three departments: The Practical Jokes Department, The Dirty Tricks Department, and the third, which consists of one elderly GS-9 clerk who is out on sick leave most of the time, the Fairy Godmother department.

              There’s nobody in the Co$ organization to keep the Dinky Mindless one in check, and he’s probably surrounded himself with people who he can browbeat and who are not a threat to him organizationally, so there’s no really competent staff, but just people holding on who fear being sent to the Hole.

              Towards the end of WW2, the allies finally called off attempts to assassinate Hitler because they figured out that his bad military decisions were winning the war for them.

              In the same way, it looks like DM is making the decisions that are making Co$ lose ground. Soon, all he will have left are the celebrities who are indebted to him. I predict TC will be the last to leave the sinking ship, if it goes that far, because of the Cruise extended family that’s involved.

              My personal opinion is that Co$ won’t disappear, but it will continue on as a shell of itself, unless attorneys 1) pierce the veil of separation between NuttyCON and Co$ in lawsuits, and 2) enough lawsuits can be filed and won on the part of ex-clams to get their money back that it becomes enough of a burden on Co$ instead of what it is now: the cost of doing business.

          • DeElizabethan

            Wow, good to hear. Lrons’s own Navy. Copycat!

      • Exterrier

        That was my experience with the TR’s except for the creepy ash tray part. They unblocked my restraints about communication. The bullbaiting drills could be abusive, as Claire described, if not supervised by someone responsible. I would recommend them to just about anyone, or at least a good adult “encounter” type group. The communication formula and drills, if not robotically executed, are very basic and teach the lost art of listening. The great value found in some of the early “come on” coaching and teaching in Scientology is what can keep you on the hook for all the ridiculous BS that comes later.

        • Missionary Kid

          The only beneficial things I can see are that they get a person to focus on what’s happening, and that they focus on the person who is in front of them.

          What is also going on is the conditioning for obedience by violating personal limits. Drill Instructors don’t have to touch a person, but they get in their face, breaking into a person’s space to make them feel powerless and fearful.

          The sad part is that there are effective ways of doing the same thing in civilian life. I can understand the need for such actions in the military. It’s a temporary process there. It doesn’t feel like it at the time. In Co$, there’s almost no such thing as personal space.

          I worked in sales for a large corporation, and a part of their training was to teach listening skills. It was far more benign.

          • Exterrier

            Yes, the breakdown of personal barriers laid a certain groundwork that they used later.

        • DeElizabethan

          True that the upper indocs or higher TR’s taught one to expertly control, more to the point was in being controlled and I didn’t take to it very well. That’s what scio’s learn to do, the control bit with everyone they encounter overtly and covertly. Damn, watch out!

      • Exterrier

        Very insightful observation about the flux time, Missionary. That is exactly what happened to me. In a way, entering scn when I did was like landing in a lifeboat moored to the titanic. I needed a lifeboat, cause I was truly adrift. Even the detox program was a big, big help to me, flawed as it may be. And, ha ha, I needed the love bombing badly, I am afraid. I had lost everything, divorce, home, etc, and needed to land somewhere where I was wanted. Tell me lies tell me sweet little lies, as Fleetwood Mac says. I still have a friend or two from the Purification, who also left, and now think for themselves. And since I missed the military, the bit of discipline and focus I gained from some of the drills were helpful. It is just when I saw all the cruelty and contradictions and greed in the organization, and the uniformity and intimidation of the average scns, I was revulsed, and left. They never got me for much money……I probably am one of the few who got his money’s worth, in a weird way, by never doing anything but lower level actions, yet participating in many fun activities as a performer and mc. When I decided I’d had seen enough weirdness, and the sort of induced sociapathy that scn soon instills in its members….wow the heartless disconnections I saw………then I hit the internet pretty hard, and read Piece of Blue Sky, and more.
        What I saw was that the behavior of the staff, the callousness, the cruelty, the manipulation, the swearing and threatening…..was an exact duplication of the flawed sick character of the man whose picture stared at me from every wall of the orgs.
        By the way, I don’t recommend the military necessarily, though my family was military. There are programmed relatives of mine who are ex marines in the midwest, who I cannot even speak to for five minutes, because they so willingly have sent their kids off to invade Afghanistan and Iraq, and will brook no talk of ever questioning the rationality and motivations for those wars, or for drones, torture, etc. Their idea of patriotism is permanently warped into supporting any military action no matter what.
        I also liked your comment about the TR drills invading personal space and boundaries…..that is a real good point. And the consent to that invasion is necessary to get one to agree to the writing up of “knowledge reports”, one of the most fascistic aspects of the “church”.

        • Missionary Kid

          Wow! You, for one, actually what you needed out of Co$ and split. Congratulations on having the sense to blow, and not getting very involved.

          I wasn’t advocating the military, just saying that the techniques to break a person down and remold them are quite similar to boot camp. Of course, the behavior modification in the service has a very specific purpose, and that is to mold a person to be an effective Soldier, Sailor, Marine, or Airman and to develop organizational cohesiveness. The DIs, as much as you hate them when you start, by the end, you respect them. Their task is to break you down and rebuild you.

          I don’t think you would say the same thing about the people in charge you ran up against with in Co$. Their task is to break you down and keep you broken down. On top of that, every screw-up you have is noted to use on you later.

          • Exterrier

            That is so true, Missionary….your final statement. Before I was allowed to do the purification sweat lodge program, my first Scn action, and a risky affair for them, actually, and ultimately beneficial to me, whatever its shortcomings, they insisted that I get some “free auditing”. My advisor said that that was unheard of, the free part, and to do it. Well, all it consisted of was some big shot auditor fishing around for me to state if there was any sexual impropriety in my past that I was uncomfortable with or ashamed of. When I finally gave up that I used to go to quarter porn arcades, I was expecting some sort of demonstration of the magic of auditing to remove whatever remorse or trauma they felt I should have. Instead, the auditor just wrote down what I said, and said Session over. I was a bit confused by that. Really, that’s it? Yep.
            Now I know, after Tony’s blog, and reviewing all the sites and horror stories, that since they did not have any kind of file on me, they could not let me proceed with anything as risky as the Purif program without having some embarrassing information in my folder. I honestly did not see that at the time, I am ashamed to say.

            • Missionary Kid

              You have nothing to be ashamed of. You actually used them, got something out of them, and kept your sanity and self about you, which is admirable. You also learned from the experience, and are using that knowledge to guide your life, hopefully towards more constructive goals.

              You got a good look at the power of Oz, and discovered quite early that there’s nothing really behind the curtain.

              I hope you’re doing well. I sense that your being here is a part of your healing. You can help the other victims by telling your story.

    • Ms. B. Haven

      I’ll join you in the minority MKT. I actually enjoyed the Comm Course for the most part and got something out of it. I was a shy and socially awkward 20 something at the time. It was a chance to develop some very rudimentary communication skills. I was actually more present than before taking the course. In hindsight, I would say that it is just ‘ok’ at best, and only if left on its own, without the inevitable pressure to take another course afterwards. This pressure is reinforced by group validation when you graduate from the course and the entire course room erupts in applause and at which point every staff member that you run into is dripping with congratulations.

      The only thing that I can compare TRs to would be meditation and that is a poor comparison. There are many many meditation techniques out there and the ones that I am most familiar with are from the Tibetan Buddhist traditions. The whole idea behind TR-0 is to be there comfortably and confront. To me that implies sort steeling oneself up and building a barrier between oneself and what one is confronting, hence the infamous glassy-eyed stare. The whole idea behind meditation (shamatha, or calm abiding) is to just place ones attention on something (usually the breath) and rest. The purpose is to calm the mind and make it more pliable and resilient. Statues of buddhas and bodhisattvas always have a serene countenance because they represent someone who has developed a high level of calm abiding, just being present without trying to accomplish something. Can you imagine a statue of the Buddha with the 1000 yard stare? Oh ya, I want some of that!!!

      That is just TR-0 though. Any TRs past that creates the robotic communication so typical of scientologists. I think this is one reason it is so difficult to have a sane and lively conversation with them. They always revert to these robotic formulaic communication styles and then when you throw in the fact that questioning, doubt, debate, and curiosity are forbidden you have the perfect formula for thralldom. They just can’t think on their own. I know I couldn’t when I was in. It was only when things got too crazy (I always tolerated a certain amount of crazy) that I allowed myself to start questioning and looking. Once one truly looks, you can see what a fucked up situation you have gotten yourself into. The next step is to accept the fact that you have gotten yourself there by having bought into a world class con game. That isn’t always easy to do especially for those of us who hate to admit we were stupid and just plain wrong (and have spent a tremendous amount of time, money and relationships being wrong). On the bright side though, if you don’t take that step to admit you were conned, you just keep being conned and that is infinitely worse. If you can’t question and be curious, you might as well be dead.

      • PreferToBeAnon2

        “That is just TR-0 though. Any TRs past that creates the robotic
        communication so typical of scientologists. I think this is one reason
        it is so difficult to have a sane and lively conversation with them.”

        Perhaps someone who joined in order to “increase intelligence and creativity” can comment on this. It strikes me as curious that Co$ would target actors, musicians, etc., when those are the folks least likely to be controlled and most likely to rebel against a formulaic response to life.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          I loved the Comm Course, and the Tone Scale, and the intro basic PTS/SP courses, oh, and the Touch Assist.

          Creative types are going to eat up the Hubbard about how they are surrounded by more SP’s than anyone else. Win: “Hey, that’s my agent (manager, roadie, stage mother, et al). Now I know why I’m not rich and famous and coughing all the time.”

          The Communication Course and Tone Scale comes in handy when it’s closing time at some smoke embalmed Ramada Inn lounge for the manure convention in some god forsaken no name town. Win: “Hey, now I know exactly how to handle those obnoxious, inebriated suits slobbering over my tea on my stage breaks.”

          Touch Assists even felt good when you’ve been scrunched up on a smelly men tour bus Not featured on any Livin’ Large in Style TV show and when you arrive at the next Ramada Inn in some frozen version of Hee Haw, anything remotely resembling a warm fingers masseuse is sheer nirvana. Win: I can uncurl my toes again.

          • Poison Ivy

            THDNE – Best comment ever: Win: “Now I know why I’m not rich and famous and coughing all the time.” Yes, Hubbard likes to blame the world for his failures (odd how that conflicts with “you pulled it in” though?) And so do most (immature and insecure!) artists. “Hey, that’s my agent (manager, roadie, stage mother, et al). Now I know why I’m not rich and famous and coughing all the time.”‘

            “The world hasn’t recognized my genius.” Yes, there was a phase in my life when I would have eaten that up like an ice cream cone. Fortunately, I grew up and out of it naturally. But I know a hell of a lot of people in my business who sing this tune until their last breath.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              The comm course in particular helped me get over a little stage fright and a lot of low self esteem. Unfortunately, all the PTS Types that Hub had in his box of tricks didn’t include PTSD, so it just got worse. That’s just one example of why even the intro stuff is dangerous. Scientologists aren’t educated, trained and licensed to practice medicine, but they think they are. But those imaginative players I knew made it a very wild and fun at moments experience. I can’t think of why any young, creative person off the streets would be seduced to do scientology training routines today. There are So many avenues and vehicles to discover your passions and skills and self in this century, all are much cheaper, some free, and a boatload of inspiration.

        • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

          Actors are actually very easy to control. They tend to have serious self-esteem issues and be very vulnerable to love-bombing. Also, actors in Hollywood aren’t exactly the most educated people in the world.

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        The end product is supposed to be someone who can communicate on any subject. The reality is that communication that disagrees with Scientology is blocked. People stop thinking and stop communication they don’t like, by saying “Thank you”. In that context, “Thank you,” is Scientologese for “Fuck Off”.

        I keep thinking of Lost in Space, the TV version. When Robot can’t figure out something he starts flailing around going, “Does not compute! Does not compute!” I see a new TR happening. The preclear says something negative about L.Ron Hubbard taken from xenu.net. His twin starts flailing around screaming, “Does not compute! Does not compute!” I think that could be done for days on end, making sure the arms flail just enough but not too much, the stare is perfectly glassy and that the words are bitten off just right and uttered robotically with no emotion at all.

        • Poison Ivy

          “The end product is supposed to be someone who can communicate on any subject. The reality is that communication that disagrees with Scientology is blocked.”
          I have the solution! The advertising for the COMM course should be changed to read, “You’ll become able to communicate with anyone on any subject…as long as it agrees that Scientology is the only hope for a planet in ruin!”
          Truth in advertising…but I doubt it would get many takers.

          • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

            Two OSA members are reading this. One says, “That’s it!” meaning that is the way to save our flagging church. The other is saying, “That’s it!” meaning, that is the end I am out of here.

            • Poison Ivy

              Well, maybe I saved one of ‘em.

      • Exterrier

        Ditto all the way. The rest of the TRs helped me, but then I noticed that people were employing them as stops on thinking and communicating. Also, the ARC triangle seemed like basic good sense, but then I noticed that the organization and most of the participants, if they employed it at all, employed it in reverse as a control mechanism or weapon. Especially the upper staff. I,saw much mental cruelty among them. A strange, self contradicting group, encouraging mental freedom through rigid conformity, and saving mankind by declaring most of them enemies, and snarkily calling them “wogs”.

      • Poison Ivy

        What a great comment, Mrs. B Haven…I’d give you 4 ‘likes’ if I could. “…when you throw in the fact that questioning, doubt, debate, and curiosity are forbidden you have the perfect formula for thralldom. They just can’t think on their own. I know I couldn’t when I was in”
        So well said. I’m so glad you got your “think” back!!

      • Exterrier

        I just noticed your point about “sane and lively conversation”. Although the TR’s helped me with some aspects of being willing to be more direct and assertive in my conversations, I noticed that with staff members and long time true believer type members, you could not converse in a lively way, due to their compulsive reversion to the formulas of the drills, or the quick entering of training phrases like, “got it”, almost as conversation and thought stoppers. But the real thought stoppers were the conversations that always ended, ad nauseum, well, “Ron says…..” about whatever subject…and that would be that. I played the Ron says game when I was in the course room and talking to staff, but dumped it from my mind as soon as I walked off the premises. Then I found out it was not a game to most of the scns. They had really formatted their intellects that way…..or rather eliminated their intellects. No, there are not lively conversations in Scientology…… usually you are asked “what action are you on now?”….and if the answer was not impressive, they just turned away. My answer was never very impressive, but I kept hold of my mind and left early.

        • DeElizabethan

          I sure concur on that. Exactly! thanks for putting so well and true.

    • PreferToBeAnon2

      Heck you can get most out of that by joining a local Toastmasters.

      • DeElizabethan

        Almost joined the Toastmasters meeting at Flag. They have their own group, a dozen or so, all wogs had mostly disappeared or left was stated. Most are OT’s and they need to practice making speeches. Another recruiting attempt area as far as I’m concerned.

    • FLUNK101

      Yeah, you ‘re the “minority report,” because getting something positive out if Scientology is “unheard of” on this blog.
      Just as every gig has it’s protocol (I’m a musician), every blog has it’s own “correctness.”
      On this blog it’s Scientology, the stupidest thing you ever heard of. That’s Mr Ortega’s stock in trade. It’s the stupidest thing you’ve ever heard of, and reading about that is a great way to relax after a hard day of work. GREAT! Just like Scientology, only lame.
      If it were a more honest blog, a more intellectually meaningful blog, perhaps it wouldn’t attract the same following … That’s for sure! This blog attracts a lot of assholes! Not just assholes, but “PC” assholes, who want to get their hate on, without anyone calling them a bigot.
      I’m jus say’in … 

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        Scientology is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of. I’m with you there.

      • Snippy_X

        Some of us are angered by the way they shamelessly waste people’s lives and I, for one, would sure like to understand how that happens, just like you. There are also a number of exes here, too. They are very loved here. If you call a group of people bigots, does that automatically make you an anti-bigot or a bigot?

      • Exterrier

        But you joined the blog anyway, flunk? Just sayin’.

      • Poison Ivy

        See my comment above, boys and girls – the regulars and old timer never-ins on this blog are very aware that Scientologists get something quite addictive out of the cult…especially on the lower levels. We’ve heard enough first person narratives to believe it. Don’t tar us with that kind of brush.

        And MKOT, you say “The course would be worthwhile if taught with an emphasis on moderation, perhaps as part of an introductory dramatic arts course”….above I mentioned that some of the TR’s seem to me to be sort of CO$ ‘riffs’ on actual beginning acting exercises. Trust exercises, mirroring exercises, concentration exercises, reacting to your partner (which is sort of the opposite of what you have to do in TR’s) – all are core concepts that every beginning actor serious about his or her craft must master.

        • Exterrier

          Yes, the mirror drills, book drill, duplication drills on the Objectives, that followed the TR drills, were very close to those I got when I trained in an improv comedy acting course. They are useful. I was even at a retro party where did a Simon Says game, with twenty contestants, and won it hands down due to my hightened attention at the time I did those drills. They were useful, but one can and should seek self improvement activities like that outside of something as big and mean as Cof$.

      • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

        You are defending a practice in which a grown man unbuttons a little girl’s shirt and if the little girl responds in any way, she gets in trouble.

        Fuck off.

        • FLUNK101

          No, I’m not defending anything but my right to tell my story.
          Watch your language.

          • Johan

            Lliira is obviously very upset about the shirt unbuttoning story, give her a break. I hope you don’t mind me saying so, but you do seem to take things kinda personally – comments made are just comments made – they’re not cast in stone!

      • FistOfXenu

        FLUNK101, do we know each other? I don’t think so. So I assume you’re not saying I’m one of a whole bunch of people here you call conformist dishonest hateful assholes. And I assume that underneath being so pissed off at us you realize how a lot of us have very personal reasons for saying that no matter what benefit they manage to give as part of the process of getting people in, IT AIN’T WORTH IT. We look at the total deal. Sure there are these things at the beginning that some people get “wins” out of but after that, it gets worse and worse. And god help you if challenge things in $cientology or try to ask hard questions or if you just don’t drink the kool aid. We also see that even if you go along with it all, maybe because you grew up in $cientology or maybe because you started out so sold on the whole thing, it’s still likely to go wrong for you.

        This blog includes a lot of ex-members that know the truth about $cientology and family and friends of members that watched $cientology tear up the people they love. There are even people who’ve watched $cientology let the people they love die. Wins? If you just look at them by themselves, okay, there are wins. A lot of us look at those wins as part of a bigger pattern. I look at them as “bait”. The hook is $cientology, and like any fish can tell you, a hook is too high a price to pay for a bit of worm.

      • DeElizabethan

        Dear Flunk 101, Have you ever considered writing up you own story of what you experienced in Scn. Particularly the ways you helped, aided and abetted the cult to survive and prolong their insidious, dangerous ways to others and society. Wins are easy to relate to, as we all have experienced them in some system or another. It takes courage to speak out against abuses, as you often do. Forgive yourself for contributing to the cult and make peace. Writing up your story can be most helpful to yourself and others.
        Sincerely, Dee

        • FLUNK101

          I didn’t contriibute very much to the cult. I was a public, and I never “disseminated”, I never tried to get anyone else into it … I was hesitant to do that … I didn’t want to be perceived as a cult member.

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        I gave you a short and snarky reply several hours ago, and I regret that. Really, though, I put my comment up many hours ago and have had a lot of interesting replies. Many people see it my way, many don’t, many go farther than I have. While almost everyone here has a huge disagreement with Scientology, the discussion has been very civil. No one got angry at all about my comment which goes against the prevailing mood. There was not one down click. The nastiest comment on the whole thread was mine, referring to your comment and I apologize for it. Put up an equivalent comment on the Marty Rathbun site and it will be taken down. As for Scientology wanting to see freedom of discussion, just forget it. I think the people here do pretty well.

  • FLUNK101

    Yes, these TR’s are what give Scientologists their 1000 yard stare and robotic compliance.
    But, in the beginning, done in moderation, it’s not uncommon to hear some say TR’s helped them in some way. It seems that anything I initially liked in Scientology is eventually used to control you. That’s why I am so glad I left when I did.
    Ironically, Scientific American Mind published some “Love Building Excercises” that sound like
    trickle-down Scientology.

    TRO from the Communication Course is called “Soul Gazing.”

    Hand space mimicry from the CCH objective processes is very similar to an exercises called “Love Aura.”

    An exercise for couples to sec check each other is called “Secret Swap!”
    http://www.nature.com/scientificamericanmind/journal/v20/n7/box/scientificamericanmind0110-26_BX2.html

    • PreferToBeAnon2

      “It seems that anything I initially liked in Scientology is eventually
      used to control you.”

      Flunk, that seems to be the bottom line.

      • Poison Ivy

        “It seems that anything I initially liked in Scientology is eventually used to control you.” PTBA2, we are in sync – I was just thinking the same thing. Anything useful that LRH produced he turned around and made it a tool of compliance.

  • Mat Pesch

    I appreciate the work of Anderson but its no contest. Without WWP myself and Amy Scobee (and thus many other ex-S.O. members) never would have spoke out, worked with the St. Pete Times, wrote books, etc, etc. WWP blew a hole in the dam that can not be repaired. WWP had the courage and initiative to do an international Bully Beatdown of corporate Scientology.

  • Ze Moo

    Anderson Cooper has done his CNN part, but his work in no way approaches the day in, day out work of WWP.

    The descriptions of the TRs given by those who have been through them is very interesting. While the end ‘congnition’ of such training is guided visualization of whatever the focus of the training routine is supposed to teach, along the way the student is made to accept the lesson plan and the methods of ‘learning’. By submitting to to the lesson plan, the student either rebels and leaves or submits and ‘gets the win’ and is allowed to continue with their CO$ indoctrination. These TRs are part of the separating of the winnow from the chaff. The bull baiting and staring contests are invitations to hypnotism or self-hypnotism. That is where you decide to be winnow or chaff.

    Dale Carnegie courses start at $180 and go up to 2 or 3k. The clam courses seem to mirror that price structure. No hypnotism or self-hypnotism there. Accredited colleges are probably cheaper in the long run and you get a sheepskin when you finish. Plus, when was the last time I tappa kegga made you disconnect from your family?

    • Captain Howdy

      “when was the last time I tappa kegga made you disconnect from your family?”
      When the student wanders drunkenly out into the frozen tundra and is found stiff as a snowboard a few days later. This happens in N.E on a perennial basis.

      • Ze Moo

        It happens everywhere every year. Something like 25% of freshmen don’t come back for the 2nd year. Having the freedom to succeed is also the freedom to fail. College isn’t for everybody, society needs plumbers and electricians and machinists and all the other occupations that don’t require 2 or 4 years in school. If you spend all your time at I Tappa Kegga, don’t expect to make the Deans List.

        • RMycroft

          Unless it’s the Dean’s Double Secret Probation list.

        • Poison Ivy

          To be fair, plumbers, electricians (and probably machinists – I don’t know any machinists though) have to study for their professions as well. Just not in ivory towers.

  • Captain Howdy

    Anonymous was “The Big Bang” for $cientology.

    Or as Hubbard described it:
    “LOUD SNAP
    WAVES OF LIGHT
    CHARIOT COMES OUT, TURNS RIGHT AND LEFT
    CHERUB COMES OUT
    BLOWS HORN, COMES CLOSE
    SHATTERING SERIES OF SNAPS
    CHERUB FADES BACK (RETREATS)
    BLACKNESS DUMPED ON THETAN”

    Except Hubbard didn’t cognite that the cherub was wearing a Guy Fawkes mask.

    Some excellent OT craziness to be found, especiall the GPM implant stuff. http://www.ami.com.au/~bradw/cos/Wakefield/us-07.html

    • Observer

      “Poet” can be added to the list of Ronnie’s epic fails. I read that 10 minutes ago and I’m still cringing.

      • Captain Howdy

        Dude, that’s the Master describing the creation of the Thetaverse, the original universe. Don’t disrespect the creation story.

        • Observer

          I wonder what caused his snap engram.

          • Captain Howdy

            Through Jason Lee’s valence he was able to mock up Jaime Pressly on the whole track.

          • FistOfXenu

            Maybe it’s a noise he heard in some of his drug fueled dreams.

          • Poison Ivy

            His mother wore overalls?

        • Poison Ivy

          Well, he kinda sorta maybe got the waves of light and the blackness parts right….

    • RMycroft

      INCIDENT 4

      LOUD SNAP (Bones breaking)
      CHEVROLETS COME OUT
      BURN RUBBER
      FISHTAIL RIGHT
      DO U-TURN
      STALL
      FLAT TIRE (No motion)
      BLOWS HORN
      BLOWS MISCAVIGE
      CRASH

    • Chocolate Velvet

      Incident 1.1:
      LOUD SNAP
      BEAMS OF LIGHT ON A STAGE
      RUPAUL COMES OUT, TURNS RIGHT AND LEFT
      TWO “DRAG RACE” CONTESTANTS COME OUT
      SHATTERING SERIES OF SNAPS, A VOICE COMMANDS “IT’S TIME TO LIPSYNC FOR YOUR LIFE!”
      RUPAUL FADES BACK (RETREATS)
      FABULOUSNESS DUMPED ON WINNER.
      YAY!!

  • Sidney18511

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems the competition today is Anderson cooper against the whyweprotest message board and not Anderson cooper against anonoymous the group. Can someone CLEAR this up for me.

    • Johan

      It’s the anonymous members that contribute to project chanology. No contest. Anonymous by a country mile.

  • CraftLass

    Oh, Claire! Every time I think I’ve got some kind of grasp on the things you’ve had to endure, you come out with something more. A grown man in a place of authority unbuttoning a young girl’s shirt is the stuff of nightmares under any circumstances. To be taught to just take such a thing… The mind reels.

    What happens to adults in the “church” is abhorrent enough, but it’s always the tales of childhood within that bring out the lioness in me.

    • MissCandle

      I’d like to know names of the men who carried out those tactics. Sick. Sick. Sick.

      • http://www.facebook.com/gayle.smith.3994 Gayle Smith

        I don’t need their names, just the location of the knees so I can introduce them to my baseball bat.

        • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

          Knees? I was thinking a bit higher.

          • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

            I like knees. Go for the knees. It is too easy to miss the nuts.

    • PreferToBeAnon2

      who in the world would put a down arrow on this comment?

      • CraftLass

        Baffling. But I sort of feel like I’ve been through a right of passage or something ;)

      • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

        People who are pro-sexual abuse. There are a lot of them out there, and most of them are not in Scientology. But it was likely a Scientologist. Their philosophy is pro-sexual abuse, particularly sexual abuse of women and girls.

      • Captain Howdy

        It’s most likely a demonstration of Herbert’s “explosive anger disorder” i.e he’s having a temper tantrum.

  • http://www.facebook.com/DefrockedBitterApostate Defrocked Bitter Apostate

    All of the TRs and NOTs are available for retrieval on the Internet. The “NotsForDos” ZIP package puts it all together in HTML format, lets you create a web site by unzipping all of the fraudulent documents and upload them.

  • Mike

    Maybe I am wrong, but TR 0, 1 and 2 seem like they could be useful in real life. Obviously, it makes no sense to do them for hours and hours. But couldn’t a more modest version of these TRs help you to deal with hostile situations and confrontations that occur in the workplace, in business, etc?

    • wannabeclear

      Yes, some of it may be useful, but so could meditation and deep breathing for the same purposes. Also, you don’t need to spend $200. You could just have a willing friend hurl insults at you.

    • CoolHand

      Wait till you hear the rest of the TR’s 6-9 – “Upper Indocs”. Yes, indoc is for indoctrination.

      • Poison Ivy

        Just got your book, Luke. Can’t wait to read after I finish Jenna. I have work reading ahead of it but may well cheat a little ;-)

        • CoolHand

          Great! You might like my description of the TR’s at Narconon. Appropriate for today’s topic here!

    • FistOfXenu

      Yeah, I could’ve used bullbaiting in real life when I was dating. “What do you mean getting fresh? It’s a comms drill! I was just gonna help you flatten some buttons!” But I guess I know what you mean. Knowing how to be with somebody and all that could be useful. But I think these drills are no way to do it.

    • hogarthian

      The only ‘faith’ I have is the one which tells me, unquestionably, that members of the human race have the innate ability to ‘deal’ with other people. Yes, that ability is sometimes eroded or skewed by circumstances (physical, psychological, socio-economic) but we need to restore our faith, collectively, in that fabulous gift that human beings have to communicate at a complex level. Our modern (20thC onward?) affliction appears to be that we have lost faith in OURSELVES…. to trust that instinct to communicate and act accordingly. As a result, we rely increasingly on ‘guru’s’, conmen, lifestyle coaches (whatever the fuck they are), Jeremy Kyle (Jerry Springer?), quack doctors, and spiritualists (ok, we’ve had those for millennia) to tell us how to deliver our message, when we already know!!!

      Anyway, you could have saved yourself the time and effort and just read ‘How to Win Friends and Influence People’….. which is also a couple of hundred pages of stating the fucking obvious, just less toxic.

      • FistOfXenu

        and less expensive. :P

      • EnthralledObserver

        I’ve tried stating this myself on several occasions… you did it very well, and much better than I could have – GOOD JOB! Agree!

        • hogarthian

          …. YAY! Although, I could do with some help in getting my own messages across without resorting to vulgarity. Never mind though eh? ;-)

    • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

      You are wrong.

      Oh yeah, it’s real “useful” in real life to be sexually abused. As a child. And told this is part of your religion. And you’re not allowed to respond. Just sit there and take it.

      It is only “useful” to bullies, abusers, and rapists, training the next generation of victims.

  • http://www.facebook.com/bradgreenwood Bradley Greenwood

    I am shocked Cooper got that many votes. Anonymous got me into this area… and I am sure a great many of your readers. This one was a slam-dunk.

    • Sidney18511

      I voted for cooper. It seemed to me that the choice was not anonoymous vs. cooper, but the whyweprotest forum vs, cooper.

  • Frank Wog

    Can’t believe you are whinging about the cost, Tony. Don’t you know this stuff is invaluable? Don’t you know it’s all about exchange? Don’t you know you are exchanging transient money for the ONLY formula that will SAVE MANKIND? Why don’t you want to save mankind, Tony? Don’t you want mankind to get better? Or do you not care about the future of our children? Do you kill children, Tony? I bet you kill children. I bet you kill them all the time. While you are on drugs. Are you on drugs, Tony? Do you work for Big Pharma? Are you a psych? Tell us, Tony — what are YOUR crimes? WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES??

  • Sidney18511

    To anyone who might be interested in finding out if the TRs were ever meant to actually help people or if they were just part of the scam go to paulsrabbit.com and read “Dart Smohon:The Real Story” by Alan C. Walter. See what he has to say about Reg Sharpe who was LRHs best friend. It was an evil scam for riches, power and control from the beginning.

    • CraftLass

      I literally am reading that right now, just took a break, looked up at the computer, and saw your comment. Wow, what a read! This is not going to make it easy to get back to work…

    • 1subgenius

      Thanks for the link. Haven’t read it yet, but I’m guessing the TR’s have something to do with hypnosis.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Besides Perry Scott’s one page review, I remember coming across one of Arnie Lerma’s always OMFG comments and links. Not a Paul’s rabbit hole, Arnie’s. At first I was like, oh, too far out, but when I saw that the Intelligence/Interrogation manuals included a technique called “Alice In Wonderland”, then I was like, wait, wot? Then I remember Hubbard and Heinlein and his author friends who got into the war and military espionage. You just never about that Hubbard, do you?

        http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?22499-Alice-in-Wonderland-Hubbard-said-quot-Always-goto-source-quot-SO-IT-I-DID!&p=549436&viewfull=1#post549436

        http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Sec

        • Missionary Kid

          I’m a Heinlein defender. I didn’t always agree with him, but he wanted individual freedom, whereas LRH was about deception and making money. Heinlein was highly moral, LRH was as moral as it took to fleece someone.

          The community of science fiction writers was small when they met, and what they shared was a commonality of a profession, not necessarily of ideas or attitudes.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            No, they shared everything, including housing. Yes, Hubbard stole the ideas. He stole people’s lives, their life history and made them his own. I was specifically talking about all the government and military and espionage chunk of history that actually happened and Hub was in the middle of all this highly charged historical era rife with suspicion and groups working on all things of maneuvering and controlling the enemy.

            • Missionary Kid

              I’m assuming you’re talking about the start of the Cold War and Korea. There may have been a general attitude of suspicion of Communism, but the only way that Hub was in the middle of it was in his mind. I grew up in that time.

              The shared housing, to my limited knowledge, was Hub mooching. Look at the way he bailed on Heinlein when he thought he had a better gig lined up.

              He used anti-Communist rhetoric against people who he considered his enemies. The record shows that he wrote letters naming “enemies” (anyone who was on to his BS) as “subversives.” Hub was fair gaming before he made it an official policy. It looks like his letters were pretty much ignored, although, if inquiries were made, it would have been uncomfortable for the subject in those paranoid times.

              He was a wannabe secret agent. During WWII, he tried to bullshit his way into Naval Intelligence, but it’s obvious his imagination was greater than his abilities or experience.

              He was a legend in his own mind.

    • MarionDee

      That’s a GREAT link, thanks!

    • Exterrier

      Going to read it now, Sidney. More links and info is more helpful than those sort of flailing “I can’t believe anybody went for this crap!” sort of posts, that are self serving expostulations that bring no enlightenment. This is a very intelligent blog community…..I am impressed more all the time…a very smart bunch.

  • Anonymookme

    Ok, I have a huge problem with this TR bullshite. Sitting across from someone, eyes closed, no fidgeting etc is supposed to help one COMMUNICATE with others?

    Bullbaiting is helpful to COMMUNICATION?

    Some very serious people here think that these drills were HELPFUL? Helpful in what manner? It seems to me that it’s all a prelude to the big brainwashing that is yet to come. So, in that way, I guess it’s helpful for turning one’s mind to the eventual mush that only Sciloontology can bring.

    I mean come on people.

    I have an idea so crazy it just might work! If you want to learn how to COMMUNICATE, start out by having real conversation with others. Doesn’t have to be a conversation about all of the deep, mystic, cray-cray tenets of Sciloontology, just conversation about whatever is interesting to you & others at that moment. Try it! It’s a helluva a lot cheaper than LRH’s lunacy and it will open up a big, wild world to you. You get to listen to other viewpoints and maybe you will actually learn something that is relevant and worthwhile. G
    Granted, you’ll miss out on learning all of the super cool Sciloon jargon and gibberish, but really, what value is any of that in the real world?

    • Missionary Kid

      The exercises are to teach one to conform. It’s to teach the subject to submit to another’s will and do things the same way.

    • RMycroft

      One result of bullbaiting is probably blunted affect:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blunted_affect

    • Poison Ivy

      It also clearly teaches you not to question. You flunk if you ask the question, “I don’t understand what you mean by that.” This would have been very helpful to LRH, given the gobbledegook that gushed from his mouth at any given moment.

      • Anonymookme

        Oh, hell yes. I can imagine one of the newest “trainees” staring back at LRH or whoever happens to be their very serious and very deep philosopher “auditor” or whatevs and blurting out exactly what is on the trainee’s mind, which I’ll bet 98% of the time is “WTF ARE YOU EVEN TALKING ABOUT?” “ARE YOU INSANE”?
        LRH or Marty or any of the other terribly serious, very deep Grand Poobah’s of Gibberish and Fail would most likely not appreciate a newbie, green wise ass asking such impertinent questions.
        I would love to know how many fresh, green inductees just burst out laughing at the cray-cray right out of the shoot.

        • DeElizabethan

          Oh I did that on the course as a newbie. After doing OTTRO for a period of time. I could hear others doing these silly drills and I saw it was just so funny and laughed all the way home. Better than a joint. Of course i came back for more. Start of addiction!

          • sugarplumfairy

            We love you, deLiz.. I’m so glad you were able to break free and clear without still being addicted to the tech and the words of elron, like so many others seem to be.. You’re more like Tory, Jason, Marc and Claire.. Y’all dont still have a foot in the door.. Have you figured out why that is?

            • DeElizabethan

              Oh yeah! Over 20 years away from them, having a wonderful life with my mate, then lost mate and got back briefly wondering if it would help my loss. Well, I sure pulled my head out of the sand and looked, saw for myself having a new light in my head. The unfriendly organization is just so suppressive and in reading the leader’s writings saw the brainwashing, contradictions and impossibilities. That’s very short form for you.
              Luv you too and thanks for your support.

              Just a note. I was in a Very bad mood today, and swore I wouldn’t comment. Well, you Bunkers somehow warmed my heart and I felt like conversing. <3

        • sharon brown

          I Don’t know how ppl can keep a straight face with this sh*t , I’d be one of those ” green wise asses” actually saying WTF ?? ? I’m Gone ! And I’m a tad bit cray-cray myself ! smh

      • http://twitter.com/Racnad Racnad

        It’s not TRs that teach you not to question, it’s the idea that disagreement with the material can be cuased only by misunderstood words.

    • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

      But communicating means little girls might learn to say “no” to a man doing something sexual to them, and we can’t have that can we?

  • http://twitter.com/media_lush media_lush

    When I saw ‘Staring Contest’ I couldn’t help remembering the brilliant UK show “Big Train”…. they had a different one of these every week… brilliant stuff:

    http://youtu.be/SWgg20IqibM

    • Captain Howdy

      Jolly good.

  • sizzle8

    Just for the record, LRH didn’t come up with the TR’s.

    • Snippy_X

      Where did he get them from?

      • sugarplumfairy

        CIA?

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    This one page critical review of The Hubbard’s Training Routines hits the mark succinctly and explains what actually happens to a person as they experience each one. Here’s a hint: do NOT stare at strange dogs. In fact, even familiar, friendly ones. It’s hard to admit your dog is smart than you are, but your dog will love all the more.

    http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/TR/critique.html

    • Snippy_X

      Nice -thanks.

  • i-Betty

    “The worst was to have a 40- to 50-year-old man start to unbutton my shirt.” WHAT?! That’s not auditing, or counselling! It’s child abuse! Dirty, filthy, nasty, repulsive, loathsome, perverted paedophiles. I feel sick to the stomach. Claire, I love you, you beautiful, brave, generous-hearted woman.

    • aquaclara

      Agreeing with every word i-Betty just said….so repulsive. It does get worse and worse. All the best to you, Claire, for escaping and surviving. You are such a wonderful person for refusing to let evil stand.
      You have such a beautiful life now with your family!

      • FLUNK101

        Claire Headley participated in this cult much longer than I did.
        I really don’t have anything against Claire, but I saw the writing on the wall much sooner than she did, and I left.
        But I remember my “wins,” the only reason I had to continue, even though I turned around and quit … and for that I get disrespected.
        You are all a bunch of idiots. What other explanation is there?

        • i-Betty

          I’m so sorry you feel that way, Flunk101, but I’m sure you understand how loved Claire is by the community. I’m glad you got out early, and I’m sure numerous others wish they had got out sooner, too. But the time has to be right for the individual. My best to you.

          • Ziontologist

            Thank you ! You are a star, in a sparse galaxy …

        • Poison Ivy

          Flunk, most of us never-ins who’ve spent some time in the Bunker totally get that there are actual, real “Wins” in Scientology – ‘the cheese in the mousetrap’ (I think that’s a Jefferson Hawkins quote.) Having had some acting training in my ancient past, it always struck me that the TR’s were somewhat like a few acting ‘trust’ exercises done in early classes. (However, the point of acting exercises is to interact with and give back to your partner, not shut him/her out entirely, or just barely acknowledge!) I wonder if that’s not why Scientology in the early stages appeals so much to actors – everyone likes to succeed at things they try, and I can imagine most trained actors thinking “Hey, I can do this!” when doing the TR’s (which would not seem strange to them). The point I am trying to make is, I can see how the TRs could indeed help with concentration, confidence, poise, focus etc. That is not their insidious purpose, but it is real “cheese.”

          • FLUNK101

            Thank you, Poison Ivy.

        • sugarplumfairy

          Claire is out.. You’re still in, whether you know it or not..

          • Captain Howdy

            Where’s Bury the Nuts to do her job when we need her ?

            • sugarplumfairy

              Lol.. I was just thinking the same thing.. i think I remember her saying she was going away for a week, somewhere without wifi..

            • Sandy

              too funny!!! Yeah, I think she said she was going on vaca.

            • FLUNK101

              Somewhere without wifi … did she join the Sea Org?

            • hogarthian

              You just read my mind.

          • Ziontologist

            Yeah right.

        • Still_On_Your_Side

          I am so sorry Flunk101, for what you clearly suffered. Your response is classic denial, and it indicates that you did not leave the church unscathed.

          • Guest

            No, it’s not denial. I left over thirty years ago.

            • DeElizabethan

              Guest, FLUNK101, Ziontologist are you one of the same? What did Scn do to you? Please tell us.

            • stillgrace

              Is it just me, or does anyone else resent Z continuing to post under different socks? Guest, FLUNK101, Ziontologist, StillKeyedOut, TurtleZ.

              Xenudamnit! Pick one and stick to it, or lose any remaining credibility!

              Grave reservations!!!

            • DeElizabethan

              I’m with you and sure many are too. He straightened out for awhile, then blew it recently. If he comes up with another sock we will recognize him in short time.
              Grave reservations right! I think the last I answered him was sincere and he didn’t respond, so I won’t bother again.

            • stillgrace

              He owes apologies to Chocolate Velvet, sugarplumfairy, and Deckard Cain, for starters.
              It’s possible Scientology messed his brain up beyond repair. Or maybe it just made it worse.

              How’s your garden, Dee? My tulips and muscari are blooming like crazy!

            • DeElizabethan

              He certainly does. We’re not here to audit his case which he boasting and nattering about. When he apologizes to them maybe, just maybe he can rejoin and be worthy of the healthy Bunker, decent folks reply.

              I still have some snap dragons and begonias blooming. I go with my friend to Lowes and buy the discounted items (still alive) for 25-50 cents each and have been so far lucky. I do best with my cactus. Some of my older orchids surprise me when they bloom, a pleasure and I have a good spot for them with no bother. Love tulips and smell them in the stores whenever I see them. I take time stick my nose and smell the flowers. Thanks for asking.

        • stillgrace

          “What other explanation is there?”

          Uh … maybe you stopped taking your meds? That would explain much.

    • FistOfXenu

      So touching up a young girl is about teaching her communications? So if she’d kneed him in the nuts and poked both him in both eyes and reported him to police, that would’ve been her proving she got his message right?

      “end of cycle”

      • Poison Ivy

        Typical. Using the excuse of the “bullbaiting” to take advantage of a minor. I mean, after all, she’s just a grown thetan in a little girl’s body, right? Thetans have been around the block a few times; what harm’s a little pedophilia in this lifetime gonna do?

  • aquaclara

    This is a tough contest underneath it all. I truly admire Anderson Cooper – for one person to take on a cult known to destroy media, individuals who speak out and well, anyone they feel like – that takes courage. Much as I deeply respect the commitment from those exes who speak out here, I tip my hat to Anderson. He had everything to lose, and only a bit to gain personally by taking on the cult as he did. He has earned my respect for his detailed reporting on the cult. So…to have to choose between Anderson and WWP – whew.
    WWP – you entertain us while you enlighten us, and the rest of the world. Underneath the stories, you act. By opening up a true communication channel, you have shown the cult time and time again that their actions will not go unnoticed. By refusing to back down, you have shown those IN that it can be ok to leave. You have created a space where people can chime in, build a base of knowledge, docs and photos to bring the cult-fighting world together in one forum.
    My vote is to Why We Protest. Keep it up Anons!

  • DuckBenway

    Since Chanology/WhyweProtest.net, the cult of $cientology no longer controls the message about $cientology.

    This is an ongoing accomplishment, now celebrating its Fifth Anoniversary.

  • Ze Moo

    Los Angeles, CA (PRWEB) March 11, 2013

    “This week, millions across the United States and the world will
    celebrate March 13th as the birth date of author, humanitarian and
    Scientology Founder L. Ron Hubbard. Events throughout the week and the
    rest of March will celebrate the life, works and humanitarian
    contributions of Mr. Hubbard’s legacy, recognized by some 4,000 awards,
    proclamations and recognitions from local, state-wide and national
    leaders from around the world acknowledging the impact of his
    contributions for his works as an author, humanitarian or the founder of
    the Scientology religion.”

    Please check to see that your city, state or local is not ‘honoring’ Lron on his birthday. Prweb.comedy is such a tool…..

    • Captain Howdy

      They ran the same exact blip last year and the year before and…

      • Ze Moo

        Lron Hubbard, still dead, film at 11.

        • Sidney18511

          Isn’t he do back for his return performance?

        • Sidney18511

          Isn’t he do back for his return performance?

    • Bob

      Millions of what’s. ants, earthworms, cats, dogs?

      • grundoon

        Millions of dollars in Davie’s back pocket. He loves them like his children.

        • Bob

          Funny you should mention children. Per the Dynamics Davey is unbalanced. As you mention his only love is for his greenback kids. So far He will not be creating any future tiny gene pool. I am so disappointed. :-(
          He must have some outlet for his 2D urges. I wonder what it is?

  • mook
    • SP ‘Onage

      LRon as a cartoon scientology robot villain is epic! I laughed so hard at, “Go to hellron, LRon!”

  • Lil’ Davey

    Speaking of staring, I wonder what LRH’s blink rate was. Probably faster than Nancy Pelosi.

  • Kasey Briggs

    I can’t remember where I started reading about Scientology, but ran into Tory C and Mark Bunker and they led me to Wwp. They led me to reading tons of online resources and my current fascination with this stuff.

  • Unex Skcus

    “… at age 10 … have a 40- to 50-year-old man start to unbutton my shirt.” Claire blushed purple, but I’m seeing red.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Gerard-Plourde/1127841398 Gerard Plourde

    Been splitting my time between the Papal election reports and the Bunker. Ran across this quote from the Catechism of the Catholic Church discussing Satanism : “All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to ‘unveil’ the future. Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time history and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honour, respect and loving fear that we owe to God alone” (CCC, n. 2116).

    “a desire for power over time history and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers”. = Control over matter, energy, space and time?

  • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

    The worst was to have a 40- to 50-year-old man start to unbutton my shirt. That was pretty horrifying (and pretty common, mind you).

    Oh my god. Training to be the perfect victim. I can’t read any more, this is horrifying. You were sexually abused, Claire.

  • SP ‘Onage

    I am voting for WhyWeProtest.net

    They have broke the back bone of scientology and its intimidation techniques on the web, here scientology cannot completely control the media, here scientology cannot intimidate the collective.

    Anonymous/Chanology exists, to help those who can’t help themselves. They expose individuals associated with or employed by the church of scientology for their fraud, abuse, and corruption. They don’t stand idly by and let the exploitation of people for profit under the mask of religion become an acceptable concept. I have complete confidence in them that it’s not going to happen on their watch.

    If it wasn’t for Anons there would be no lulz in fighting scientology. They came for the lulz and stayed for the outrage. I am so glad they did.

  • DeElizabethan

    I’ve personally have gotten more help from the WWP board and contributing to protesting with very nice people.

    The public has become more aware because of Anderson and he’s done a fine job.

    I know the Anons will continue to be there to fight the good fight over evil so I must vote for them. Hell of a good group in every important country with perfect intention!

  • Bella Legosi

    Yeah thank you Claire ya sweet thing. You saved me potentially $200. Now I am impervious to my curiosity to even “check” it out for shits and giggles. I have to say repeating myself aggrivates the hell outta me and anyone can hve a staring contest. Comm Course….what a freakin joke. And the bullbait sounds like crash course “tools” to use to bubble yourself againstt outside criticism and to “attack”

  • JessicaSideways

    Come on people, I wanna see Tory as the new SMERSH. ;)

  • chisheila

    WWP all the way. Without WWP, I and others would never have had the safety net to speak out, to protest, to tell the truth. WWP has my heart. I <3 Anonymous.

  • mirele

    Yeah, the unbuttoning unnerved me. Wow.

  • EnthralledObserver

    I’m moritfied by that little tidbit… disgusted and mortified. Always worse than you think… I’m beginning to really understand how true that saying actually is.

  • Still_On_Your_Side

    I recently viewed M. Bunker’s videos from 2000-01 of two young women from Germany discussing the forced “recapture” of escapees, the blackmail, the abuse of children, teens and so on. I had, of course, heard it all before, but the description of forced labor and forced imprisonment by these women was a description of textbook human trafficking. In addition, one of the women brought up that she had witnessed the church blackmailing child molesters into staying in the church by threatening to go public with that information. Clearly, there is an environment in the church that nurtures child molestation. The church doesn’t report sex crimes against children to law enforcement; and it puts adolescents and children in situations where they are not allowed to protect their bodies from unwanted touching, and worse. If the child complains about, for example, the unwanted, touching and unbuttoning of their clothing by an adult, they apparently “flunk.” Child molesters live with or next to children. In the U.S., convicted child molesters are not allowed to be near children in parks or school yards, in the church, child molesters are allowed to live with children not their own. What else? If someone donates enough money does Miscavige reward him/her with unfettered access to children? The supposed “chastity” the church imposes on unmarried individuals is BS, and clearly is for the sole purpose of ensuring these individuals can work non-stop without distractions. Married and unmarried child molesters appear to have unfettered access to children provided they stay in the church and presumably donate enough money. I would not be surprised to learn that Miscavige also uses beatiful women as a way to keep celebrity members in the church. Oh wait, he does that……

  • sugarplumfairy

    And if that doesn’t work, maybe he should hire the squirrel busters to hang out on their front lawn and stalk them until they answer..

  • Snippy_X

    The clams like to say, “If you haven’t practiced Scientology, you can’t discuss it.” No one needs to take arsenic to talk about it. Maybe Tony, a psych and a clam could do the experiment on a fourth person, like someone on death row with nothing to loose. That would be interesting to compare what each says is the “purpose” of the TR’s.

  • grundoon

    “Tony often states that he contacts the party who is being investigated to get their statement or side of the story and that they never reply. Tony should put special emphasis on his TR3, getting his question answered.”

    Tony’s biggest flub is forgetting to say, “I’ll repeat the auditing question.”

  • EnthralledObserver

    Or just “make it up” like the Co$ do when it suits their purpose…

  • Bob

    Both ideas sound workable. Unfortunately Tony has this flaw that he follows high moral and ethical standards regarding everyone.

  • Captain Howdy

    I think “Clam Shuckers” would be more apropos in T.O’s case.

  • EnthralledObserver

    I understand what you’re saying… I write fanfiction, and in order to do so I do find I need to get into character and even sometimes perform actions, because what I’m really looking for is ‘natural and realistic’ story telling when I write, so you have to go looking internally for how a certain character might naturally react to the stimuli you, as the author, have provided – based on how the author thinks he/she would react and then substituting the personality of the character being written about. These TR’s aren’t about reacting naturally, they’re about stopping all reactions except for LRon’s pre-approved ones and only when he says you can. There is most certainly a very specific agenda for these monotonous routines… obedience!

  • Captain Howdy

    Great comment.

  • BosonStark

    I liked your post. I don’t think acting is necessarily bad, but CoS holds to the idea that because actors become attuned to what is going on around them, famous actors like Cruise or Travolta have become especially in tune to that, and are the elite who can save the planet, or at least lead others to that goal.

    I think fame, especially super stardom, distorts many actors’ self perception and they struggle to reconcile the rather ordinary person they once were, with the superstar they became in the eyes of fans or the public. This, combined with Scientology leads to the type of distortion of someone like Cruise thinking that world leaders like meeting him, not because they like him as an actor, or because it’s good politically to be seen with a famous star but because they are looking to him for answers, because of his Sci-in-tol-oh-gee. Everyone he meets is interested in it, you know?

  • grundoon

    On 18 January 1971 Ron made a tape entitled PR Becomes a Subject which outlines the basic laws of PR. An excerpt follows. … “The basic law that we’re involved with then is: The primary barrier to production is human emotion and reaction. Public relations is the technology of handling and controlling human emotion and reaction.” …. As you can see, the technology of PR Surveys and the Tone Scale in handling and controlling human emotion and reaction is an incredibly powerful tool. By putting this technology to use on a personal basis you can literally be in control of your environment on at least the first three dynamics! And Scientologists (particularly Scientology staff members) have a monopoly on the entire subject. If there was ever a way to “win friends and influence people”, this is it. We as Scientologists are continually jolted by the primitive nature of the general populace around us.

    – HCO PL 7 January 1972 – PR Series 14

  • Bob

    SPF- Regarding your first sentence, I don’t think any of us commenters like to be told what we should or should not do. But certainly we all expect disagreement with what we post sometimes.
    Used properly the STC course has value based on my personal experience and the results I have seen with some people. Used as part of the whole program to make a good obedient church member; it gets pretty much the outcome you describe. Unfortunately with most of the basic courses, if the course helps the person and they get good results they are led further in to the maze of corporate Clamotology. My contention is the course as a stand alone course has value for many people I have known.

  • Captain Howdy

    I think it’s accepted that at least in the beginning, people feel, perhaps inadvertently, that they gain something from the com course etc. I think Bob is just trying to explain why this is so.

  • FLUNK101

    Bob is speaking from his personal experiences, and for you assume you know better is a big mistake on your part, SPF.
    What if if you spoke from your own experience, and someone told you no, that didn’t happen?
    Pretty stupid, right?
    If you don’t understand that Scientology has been known to help people, to gain their trust, then you don’t understand Scientology. It almost seems to me that you don’t want to understand! That’s your problem, not Bob’s.

  • sugarplumfairy

    I gotta be me, Bob.. I don’t foresee any major changes in the near future.. deal with it.. or don’t..

  • sugarplumfairy

    Oh, and I agree, the perception of some, probably most, people who continue in scientology is that the comm course is helpful.. And that is how it was engineered..

  • Bob

    Got it. I will take it as part of your way of commenting or disagreeing.

  • sugarplumfairy

    =)

  • sugarplumfairy

    Hey, that down arrow didn’t come from me.. You’re right and wow! If you’re trying to be my voice of reason, I’d say it’s time for me to lighten tfu.. Thanks, Cap’n..

  • Bob

    Yes. And I think Lawrence Wright was also trying to understand that.

  • DeElizabethan

    I benefited a lot and had fun on that $25 first old course more than any others, But, it was also the hook that got me to continue. The organization is the hook.

  • http://twitter.com/tetloj tetloj

    There is a current thread on ESMB – What is Good in Scientology – where there is quite a lengthy debate on the TRs which certainly changed my understanding about the power and value of TRs – exes saying that they weren’t hypnotic for example. I wasn’t going to touch a thread that discussed what was good in scientology, but when it got to 60+ ages of comments I dived in.

  • Bob

    Certainly is that way now.

  • sugarplumfairy

    mmm.. Clams.. I’m feeling some chowdah in my immediate future..

  • Bob

    I don’t think can’t should be in the English language but that’s just me. That would be an interesting experiment.

  • Captain Howdy

    I’ve met numerous drug counselors who were never drug addicts.

  • John P.

    Maybe Tony, a psych and a clam could do the experiment on a fourth person, like someone on death row with nothing to loose.

    Already been done. Remember, Charles Manson was a Scientologist before he got famous for other activities. Maybe he has time in his schedule.

  • Snippy_X

    Whose handing out the down votes today?

  • Captain Howdy

    I don’t mind if someone votes my comment down. To someone like me, that’s “winning”.

  • sugarplumfairy
  • EnthralledObserver

    I don’t think SPF intended to state Bob’s recollections weren’t genuine, but that the intention behind the TR’s was not to help, but to begin the trap. The fact that it did help some was incidental in my opinion.

  • DeElizabethan

    I agree with EnthralledObserver FLUNK. the whole point is yes, give you wins in the start and along the way to KEEP you trapped by gaining/keeping their trust. You know that!
    Yes, initially, WTF that’s what we’re trying to expose and educate others about. Wins are incidental, do you understand?!

  • grundoon

    Cool, an oiliness table!

  • FLUNK101

    The fact that Scientology “helps some” is not incidental, it’s part of the trap.
    How else could they amass so much money? Because there was a time, before the Internet, when people would go into an Org and check it out. They often compared TR0 to a form of meditation. And auditing did a lot to elevate my mood …

  • FLUNK101

    Jimmy Durante Sings!
    And yes, nothing makes me happier than making someone happy, especially when it’s someone I love.
    So why do you want toile me unhappy? Because you lost your husband (and his love) to Scientology? That’s very sad, and I am truly sorry …
    But does that justify busting my tender testicles? And now Bob’s?
    At least bring us some aspirin for our balls !

  • sugarplumfairy

    awwwww, c’mon…….. Who could possibly dislike this?? I lovvvvvve this kid!!

  • EnthralledObserver

    Hypnotic techniques can do that… it was smoke and mirrors. Yes, it was intended to appear as though it was helping, but the fact that some people honestly feel they were helped and gained longterm positive benefits was incidental… and probably the only reason the whole sham has lasted this many decades.

  • Poison Ivy

    “The fact that Scientology “helps some” is not incidental, it’s part of the trap.” Cheese in mousetrap.

  • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

    Crack is a real mood-elevator too. That doesn’t mean it’s helpful.

  • Bob

    F101- SPF has her point of view. But positive personal gain is very valid and should be separated from the negative actions of the group associated with it. Unfortunately for many anything Scientology=bad. And when I put myself in their shoes it makes sense. But that does not negate the good that others may experience from it.
    There were many amazing things about living in Germany in 1938. But one of them was not free speech or being a non-Arian. I can say the same regarding Scientology 2013.

  • Captain Howdy

    Zion, why do you always have to make it personal when no one is denigrating you personally, just some “stuff” you use to believe in and still do somewhat. Attacking someones beliefs is not the same as attacking them personally. Why can’t you religious/metaphysical/magical thinking nuts get that through your spaced out heads ?

  • CraftLass

    From my understanding, if people didn’t have some sort of personal gain from these early routines, none of us would be here having this conversation because Scn would have just never happened. It doesn’t matter if the positives are the sort that really do improve your life or just make you feel like they did, it’s the hook for a reason. I’ve read accounts of people who did just these routines and nothing more but felt like they gained something. Does that mean it worked or it didn’t? Depends on your perspective. If you are the one trying to reel someone in, it worked if you have them on board. If you are the person who feels improved, well, then it did. If you are someone who has experienced this as the beginning of losing someone you care about, well, then it’s just pure evil.

    Of course, I’m fairly objective, since I’m a never-in and a never-lost-someone-to-Scn. But I have lost people to other groups and they certainly thought their early indoctrination experiences were positive while I saw them as purely negative because those people lost not just their money, but their personalities, right from the beginning.

  • Bob

    Good point. Jerry Seinfeld did the basic comm course and got something that helped him but he did not continue on. In the eyes of the church they failed because he did not continue up the bridge. But he was happy. And I have heard rumors he went on to have a decent career. I wonder what would have happened if he stayed in? If he had In the eyes of the church they then succeeded but would he? It is all perspective. I like to see people succeed but I no longer feel that they have to join some church or organization to do that. It is all perspective.

  • FLUNK101

    It’s personal because SPF has gone out her way to give me a hard time, even when I wasn’t bothering anyone, and I have as much as right as anyone else here to state my point of view.
    And I have never made any supernatural claims, so why would you characterize me as religious or metaphysical?
    Yes, I may allude to “wins” I had in Scientology, because that, for me, was the trap. The fact that I benefitted in some way, especially from the auditing, which elevated my mood, made me want to continue. But it cost too much. And once I attested to Clear, they treated me like they owned me, so  I split. I’m not one of these people who stayed in for years and spent a ton of bread … put me down if you want, but not many people leave right after attesting to Clear.
    Once I was “out,” back in the 80’s, I started finding out about all the other horrible shit that CO$ does. Scientology is endlessly evil, and then that started to fascinate me … like it does so many others, and that’s why I comment about it. I hate this evil thing. But I am not going to lie about my own subjective experiences, just because Tony Ortega or anyone else is unwilling to acknowledge certain key aspects of the con.
    Yes, I had some successes in Scientology, but there are scientific explanations for that. These successes were exploited, to gain my confidence. That was my experience.
    Maybe it’s more fun for the low IQ crowd to say it’s all bullshit and 
    that anyone who ever checked it out is an idiot, and leave it at that! But that would be bullshit, right?

  • MarionDee

    Oh, I see what you’re saying now. You can tell that I’m a bit thin-skinned about acting being put down as a profession.

    Yes, fame distorts an actor’s entire world, and they hit the jackpot twice if they’re surrounded by people who keep their heads the right size and their feet on the ground. And if a famous actor joins Scientology, it would imply to others that, by extension, Scientology is super-attuned to the world.

    I think Tom Cruise is a star in terms of charisma, but not in terms of his acting ability, which runs the gamut from A to B. His best work, I think, is in Jerry Maguire, and that performance consists of him either selling things (including himself) to other people. or standing there with a big grin on his face and eyes that are full of fear and denial while something awful collapses around him. Seems right on target.

  • Captain Howdy

    Zion, no one cares how many wins or what you got out of scientology because we’ve heard that story at least a hundred times. What we care about is you attacking people personally for no justifiable reason. You obviously have “issues” and you need professional help. Good luck.

  • FLUNK101

    Sorry that you think I need professional help, Howdy. Is that how you win an argument? By changing the subject? I thought only bitches did that.

  • CraftLass

    Jerry who? LOL! Yes, exactly. :)

    Between spirited debate over religion with some friends of various faiths (or lack thereof) and the conversations here, I’ve been thinking a lot about groups of all kinds lately. Some of us just aren’t joiners. For example, when I was a kid I always preferred solo sports to team sports. Even when I do join some kind of group I’m usually on the fringes and often don’t stick around long because group dynamics often bug me. We all come from different places, which is why this isn’t a one-size-fits-all world. It seems most people have a deep need to be a part of a group, which is a major part of the appeal of religion in general (far from the only one, but an important aspect). Community can be a very good thing but it can also be dangerous when the feeling of community is exploited or damaged.

    As a songwriter, I try very hard to understand as many perspectives as I can, even from places that confuse me. What I write ends up being from my point of view, of course, but if I don’t explore where other people are coming from, I would be writing purely for myself and no one (not even I) would enjoy the end product. This process is also a great way to find empathy, a most wonderful (if sometimes painful) side-effect.

    In other words, perspective rules! At least in this humble woman’s view.

  • Captain Howdy

    This coming from a man in his 50’s that’s still living with his mommy. Hey, “Where’s Poppa ?” lol.

  • Bella Legosi

    As a girl I am offended you would call Captain a bitch…..calm down guys! lol I would say more but don’t want to participate in futility.

  • stillgrace

    I think you need professional help, too. Plus, I just don’t like your social stylings.

  • Bob

    Groups have their place if they serve a positive purpose but some how most get out of hand. The accomplishment of individuals benefit the groups.
    On a lighter note I would welcome a song posted on this blog. Or at least a link if you felt comfortable revealing who you are or not.

  • FLUNK101

    Go fuck yourself, Howdy.
    I don’t live with my mother, but at least I come from a good family, you fucking creep.

  • Captain Howdy

    That’s not what wrote before, whatever. Try the Seroquel. I hear it’s particularly good this year. Have a nice life Herbert.

  • Captain Howdy

    And I think you altering your original comment to the point it’s basically a completely different one in order to make yourself look more benign and a victim is as disingenuous and creepy as your use of socks to comment on this blog and to give yourself more than one vote, and should be grounds for a perma ban.

  • FistOfXenu

    FLUNK, I remember what you wrote before and I’m having a real hard time understanding how you think this is any better. Not that you care what I think or anybody else thinks but all it does is make you look more hostile and like you’ve got something to hide.

  • CraftLass

    Yup, that’s exactly how I feel about groups.

    I’m afraid my identity is sort of out of the bag already, as my Disqus account is under my stage name… lol. You can listen to what I’ve released so far for free or buy downloads (if you really like the music) at http://craftlass.bandcamp.com/ or check out live stuff on YT under the same name.

    I’m only putting up that link because you asked, I’m so not here to promote myself! This group has actually brought me out of a social-internet hiatus, which I am beyond grateful for. See, I do like some groups! ;)

  • Bob

    Thanks. And I understand you are not here to promote what you do. I am a good listener and appreciate those who can create and perform. I wish I had that talent. I will check it out.

  • Bob

    Thanks for link. I really like your voice and lyrical rhythms. Another benefit to following Tonys blog. Finding new musical talent.

  • CraftLass

    Thank you so much, that really means a lot! :) :) :)

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Gerard-Plourde/1127841398 Gerard Plourde

    Let’s call it what it is – child sexual abuse.

  • Bob

    My pleasure. When I have more time I will listen to more. Would be great if you wrote a song specifically for the strange happenings with the church. Inspiration could be anywhere for a writer.

  • CraftLass

    Oh, my brain is already swirling with ideas! Inspiration is definitely everywhere, I’m always astounded when people say they need to search for inspiration. Meeting people. listening to their stories, debating ideas… it’s all fodder for creativity. I’m still a bit overwhelmed, though. I tend to write a lot about critical thinking and why it’s important, so this is a subject that fits right into my wheelhouse. I don’t want to do it wrong, though. I have immense respect for people like you who were/are in and are willing to pull back the curtain for people like me, who don’t have direct personal experience. I’m trying to put myself in your shoes, which are quite different from any I’ve worn before. Does that make any sense? Hence my sometimes blatantly ignorant questions, I truly believe there are no stupid questions because sometimes even the most obvious questions lead you to answers you would never have expected. I’d rather look dumb in comments or on a forum than write dumb, I guess. lol One of the reasons I write a lot about space, even though I’ve never worked in the industry, is that few people are telling the real stories (lots of sci-fi music out there, very little sci-fact music). If I’m going to write about CoS I don’t want it to be sensationalist (plenty of that around already), I want it to be relatable and real and to make people think. For that, I need to understand more than I do right now. Again, perspective. :)

  • Snippy_X

    Your killen me!

  • Poison Ivy

    Oh, he’s got plenty of time on his hands…

  • Scientia

    True that!

  • Poison Ivy

    Yes, great question. Would love to hear an artist/actor/musician/writer who is an ex comment on this. I would think creatives would be very susceptible to these processes because a) we’re usually prone to meditative/deep-focus states (“the zone”) b) we often use our imaginations to create things that become real to us ( this is so important later, with the past lives stuff, but also, note that Jenna created an ‘imaginary bubble’ around herself. That bubble had to be real in order for her to pass. and c) people forget that a crucial part of art is discipline. Since many artists are paradoxically undisciplined by nature, we welcome workable structures that will help us be productive.

  • Poison Ivy

    I see no evidence that Hubbard even understood the methodology of a double-blind study. Not that he would’ve cared anyway…

  • Poison Ivy

    “It also acts to sort people out as people who do not get anything out of these routines, will leave, and will not be the ones who get hooked and will spend and spend, or join the Sea Org. The people who are excited about it will remain receptive to the word of Ron. In this way, the people who leave will not cause problems by questioning too much.” Really excellent observation, Boson. Very important, that weeding out process…don’t want dissenters and SP’s in the mix from the get go. They will only enturbulate the willing. I was weeded out early in college when a recruiter tried to get me inside a mission? org? using the personality test as bait (and posing as a graduate student so I thought I was helping a fellow with coursework ) and I turned on my heel and walked out without so much as stopping…the minute I saw the volcano poster…although I’m susceptible to meditative/trance states (and as I mentioned before, the routines would’ve reminded me of ‘harmless’ acting exercises), I’d already been edu-ma-cated about the cult so they never got a chance to get at me. I’m sure Hubbard was very concerned about weeding out dissenters…in every memoir I’ve read, the author talks of being really shaken when someone close to him or her blew. Imagine new recruits blowing right and left – not so good for morale, Commodore!

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Everything in scientology’s fantasy game is just a reflection of who you are when you use it. That’s why the experiences are different for each individual. And how each person used it varied greatly. Evidently, these days you have to spend over $400,000 to get to OT8 just find out who you aren’t. wow, that must be maddening.

    In the early days of many engineers and creative types, and especially sci fi lovers, it was a blast, even though it involved sheer, unbridled mental reckless romping. But that was before the Ethics heavy entered en masse. We got by with carefree “open minds”, and that got shut down. My opinion is that when the game changed from Being Hubbard to Being Miscavige, well, Hubbard was hilarious if unintentionally and only a few lucky souls got to be mauled by the master personally. Miscavige has no sense of humour and seems to prefer a killing fields approach, impersonally.

  • Poison Ivy

    Love your insight, Marion. I had a decent amount of acting training when I was younger, but am more comfortable on the other side of the proscenium/camera. “Acting isn’t an avoidance of your self, but an exploration of it. What Claire describes is a way to avoid your real self, at all costs.” Exactly what I was trying to express about except you said it much better. There is a saying ‘ “Acting is reacting” – there is nothing more frustrating than playing a scene with a partner who is not giving back (which pretty much describes the point of the TR’s.) Even if you’re doing a monologue – if you’re method trained or even if you aren’t – you are responding to the ebb and flow of the words you are saying by coasting on the emotions of the character speaking, and keying into your own emotions in order to access them. In Scientology, telling someone to “Get your TR’s in” is a way of saying “Suppress your damn emotions!” In acting, you need to harness your emotions, but once you’ve got them in your sites, you want to do the opposite of suppressing! You might ask Jason Beghe what his experience was (it was the Beverly Hills Playhouse, by the way, not the Pasadena Playhouse – different generation of actors from each) but I’d imagine the TR’s might seem to some actors like an interesting ‘variation’ on acting exercises. The process – partnering, etc. – might seem so similar as so suck one in. Also, great acting (not performing, which I’m personally better at!) requires not only a rawness and vulnerability, it also requires a fertile imagination. I think LRon uses people’s fertile imaginations against them in Scientology. Bastard!

    Agreed absolutely about Cruise – your perception of him in Maguire is dead-on. I bet you were a really good actress! I’ve been seeing that OBLIVION trailer ad nauseum at the movies and that moment when he does the “touchdown” schtick – so predictable, so indicated, SO Tom Cruise. He is very good at emulating emotions, and projecting a self-created image (ironically, something reality ‘stars’ do) – except he does it with that ultimate degree of natural, inborn charisma that only real movie stars have. You can’t manufacture that; I think people are born with it or they aren’t. Where it comes from, who knows…a neediness? A desperation to be accepted and loved that powers the person like a nuclear reactor? But being a movie star and being a great actor aren’t always the same thing. In his case they definitely are not. Tom Cruise’s acting has told me since long before I even knew about Scientology or his involvement in it, that he is a very intense, self-determined person but not a person in tune with his emotions or those of others. Watch him closely in scenes with other actors. His partners have to do the real work.

    Of course anything is possible and he could have some sort of breakdown/breakthrough and we might see a completely different side of him. Did you see Kevin Costner in “Hatfields and McCoys”? My God, what happened to the most passive actor in the history of the screen? He gave a powerful, dead honest performance. A little failure and a midlife crisis turned him from a movie star into a real actor, I guess.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Yeah, but only with the Comm Course can you learn such life enhancing skills as knowing how to say: “Dear son/daughter…bug off, you SP’s” or “Unfriend Mrs. Jones’ son and daughter immediately. They’re SPeeeees!”

  • Missionary Kid

    The problem is information. Both Anon/Chanology and Anderson Cooper expose the dark side of Co$, but they don’t give information on alternatives to it that do a more constructive job of helping a person change. To a certain extent, How to Win Friends and Influence People, as well as organizations like toastmasters help people with the same problems with their lives. Someone else pointed out that HTWF&IP seminars can also cost a lot, but it’s a drop in the bucket compared with the financial and emotional costs of Co$.

    There are also therapists that specialize in helping people change. Of course, Co$ belittles (dead agent) anything that can do something better than they can.

  • Observer

    I am sure they will. And the fact that you are open about it and using your own experience as a cautionary tale means that the time you (and all the other exes who are speaking out) spent in was not a waste.

  • Bob

    I appreciate your approach to the craft of creating a song.
    I can get into more detail with you but I cant do it on the blog.
    but I can say this. For me there is the betrayal and the outrage I feel when my friends are exploited and they invest their time, money and their soul into lies and deceit for the engrandizem

  • Bob

    Engrandizement of a few. And there is no doubt that my life would have gone in a much different direction if I had not entered Scientology when I did. If you want to really understand both sides. Read fundamentals of thought. It summarizes the whole of Scientology. And what we all dreamed would be when we first got in. It is a broken dream, with those still in convincing themselves that they are reaching the dream when in fact they are perpetrating a nightmare.

  • Missionary Kid

    You’re right. It is all a game and a con to keep a person playing.

    My opinion of Miscavage is that he’s frightened, so he strikes out — physically, and any other way to keep others off balance psychologically and to avoid their uncomfortable questioning.

  • FistOfXenu

    “It also acts to sort people out as people who do not get anything out of these routines, will leave, and will not be the ones who get hooked and will spend and spend, or join the Sea Org. The people who are excited about it will remain receptive to the word of Ron. In this way, the people who leave will not cause problems by questioning too much.”

    PI I agree this is really important and part of it is to keep the enturbulaters away from the willing. But another thing I can’t forget. Over the years I’ve seen a whole lot of stage hypnotists. I think it’s the same thing. The hypnotist gets a bunch of people on stage and does some kind of exercise or routine with them to see which ones are really good at responding to suggestion. He keeps the best ones on stage with him, they’re the most hypnotizable ones, and sends the rest back to their seats. People doing Comms who don’t get wins go one better and they either send themselves away from $cientarCONon or they shape up and drink the kool aid.

  • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

    Precisely. With the child trained not to protest. And told she is doing something wrong if she does.

  • MarionDee

    Poison Ivy, the very fact that you use the word “indicated” to describe bad acting tells me you’ve had some serious training! The worst case of indicating I ever saw was a stage actor who was supposedly standing in the rain. Wow, did he shiver and shake. He even wrung out his sleeve! All that was indicating, and I didn’t believe it for a minute. Beside him was an actress who just stood there looking more and more woebegone, til I started to feel that I could almost smell the wet wool of her sweater. She drooped almost imperceptibly, and once quickly tucked her hair back from her face, and it all seemed natural and of a piece. Sadly, the guy next to her just looked like a clown, telegraphing his condition like that.

    Re McCarthy: I haven’t seen that performance but yes, it’s a joy when an actor who usually fails you suddenly scores one straight from the heart.

    Stardom that is based on charisma but without acting chops to back it up really backfires after time, because stardom also depends on how well your image chimes with the zeitgeist. Tom Cruise’s image doesn’t do that any longer. Not surprisingly, almost all his movies are about the need for speed and the need to win, and that has just gotten really tired. At this point I feel like he’s hectoring me. And at least in the West, Scientology now defines him in the public eye as much as film does. The other moment in J. Maguire that seemed painfully on-target was when he said, very depressed, “It’s true what my girlfriends said–I can’t be alone.” I remember a story in a credible magazine that claimed that he would follow NK around the house, asking her to do things with him, to distract him. I don’t think there’s a self there for him to be alone with. I do not minimize the unspeakable evils he unknowingly endorses by championing Scientology. But he does strike me as entirely lost.

  • MarionDee

    My first reply didn’t go through, so I’m trying to put it back together here …

    Poison Ivy, the very fact that you use the word “indicated” shows you’ve had some serious training! My favorite example of how bad this can be is a play I saw in which two performers had to stand onstage, waiting for a bus. Supposedly it was raining, but (because it was theater) their clothes weren’t wet. The male actor stood there looking up anxiously, shivering and shaking like crazy, and even wrung out his sleeve to “indicate” he was drenched. The
    actress beside him just stood there and almost imperceptibly drooped. At one point she tucked her hair behind an ear. Otherwise she did nothing … but you could almost smell the wet wool of her sweater. All that indication from the first actor, and the poor guy succeeded only in making himself look like a clown. The actress, by simply feeling soaked herself, made everyone feel it right along with her.

    I didn’t see that McCarthy performance, but a real gift can blossom at any time. A lot of star actors get by with a smile and some mannerisms, and when they’re suddenly in bad straits, they find what they need inside themselves to do a really different kind of performance.

    Stars don’t have to act, of course, but for career longevity, it’s always best when they can. (I don’t think that star charisma comes from neediness, myself, but on the other hand, I don’t have an alternate theory.) The fact is that star charisma can stale-date. Usually it is tied to
    the way an actor’s charisma chimes with the zeitgeist. In some cases that includes physical appearance, and it always applies to persona. Look at Cruise. His career took off in the 80s, and (appropriately) his persona was all about focused purpose and, ahem, winning. If you look back, very few of his movies don’t fit that profile. It’s a flat kind of heroism, and it hasn’t worn well since the super-charged 80s; at this point, he is so focused on rescuing and winning and
    being the hero that I just feel like he’s hectoring me. I just want him to leave the room and take his two dimensions with him.

    If he had real acting resources, he could overcome this impression (and not just in one-off performances–I hear he’s quite different in Rock of Ages.) But the inner resources
    don’t seem to be there.

    There was one other spooky moment for me in “Jerry Maguire.” It’s when he is remembering a bachelor party movie that was made about him by his former girlfriends, all of whom said that he couldn’t be alone. Much later on, he’s struck by the truth of this and mutters “it’s true,
    it’s true, I can’t be alone.” Now, there was a magazine story somewhere—one that was well-sourced, IIRC—that said he would follow NK around the house, asking her to do things with him and distract him. It wouldn’t surprise me if, in fact, he can’t be alone, because I don’t think there’s a self there to be alone with. And if it ever had a chance of developing, Scientology would have stamped it out. Maybe Tom Cruise feels like some sort of king … but at least in
    the West, his position within Scientology has made him look like the King of
    Fools, not Hollywood.

  • DeElizabethan

    LOL!………….. Perfect!

  • sugarplumfairy

    Sounds good..

  • Ziontologist

    So, FistOfXenu, when people call me names or try to dictate to me what I can or cannot say, that’s OK?
    And if I defend my right to say what I have to say, I ‘m the one who deserves a reprimand?
    Just asking!

  • Poison Ivy

    Marion: “at this point, he is so focused on rescuing and winning and being the hero that I just feel like he’s hectoring me. I just want him to leave the room and take his two dimensions with him. ” Ha ha! Absolutely. And he was indeed “different” in ‘Rock of Ages’ but he was still performing, not behaving. It was sort of like the Les Grossman turn he did – it was an excellent performance of a larger than life character. It wasn’t naturalistic, though I think -ironically – that’s what he was trying for. You should see it from an acting standpoint because he is playing a completely different style than everyone else and it really stands out. I agree with you – in Jerry Maguire he’s most naturalistic because that’s who he is. That role was so well written, so true to the character it created, that it touched on every one of his pressure points. He actually had to be vulnerable in that role, for real, and he was. Probably scared the shit out of him.

    “It wouldn’t surprise me if, in fact, he can’t be alone, because I don’t think there’s a self there to be alone with.” Yes, it’s chilling. I have seen this happen to other celebrities. It’s the same thing as an addiction.

    He always bugged me. ‘Risky Business’ bugged me and (besides the blatant objectification of women in that movie) now I know why.

  • Exterrier

    The toastmasters group headquartered at the LA Celeb Center Cof$ is or was the most powerful Toastmaster group in the state, because it merged the two disciplines, and also had some good entertainers at its disposal. I attended it. A very lively, motivated group. Wonder how they are all doing. Bet half have blown by now.

  • PetriDish

    He had the advantage of not being raised in the cult he created… I have far more sympathy for DM than for LRH, which isn’t much.

  • Missionary Kid

    I haven’t lived in L.A. for over 40 years, so I wasn’t aware of the Co$-Toastmaster connection. They would latch on to Toasmasters. They try to co-opt everything they can. Damn! I hope they’ve all blown.

    My nephew was helped a lot by Toastmasters, but not in L.A.

  • Bob

    True. So millions of mentally challenged field mice?

  • FistOfXenu

    At least the earthworms would’ve celebrated if his “friends” had buried him on land. “Hey remember when they served that Hubbard guy? – Yeah, not real tasty but there was plenty of him. – But hey, remember how stoned we all got whenever we ate some of him?” But no, they had to overcook him and dump him in the sea.

  • Bob

    True, true. Hubbard was raised in a much more “uptone” time period.

  • MarionDee

    You’ve nailed it.

  • Bob

    Grundoon, brilliant, if he did that their programming would kick in and they would answer. It’s called fighting fire with fire. :-)

  • grundoon

    No apparent sense of humor or irony… reads 0 on the snark meter. Other explanations – Troll-in-training? Narcissist?

  • MarionDee

    That’s frightening stuff.

  • stillgrace

    He’s often done that with my replies to his comments. He then edits his comments to take out the ugly. Remember when he was TurtleZ and deleted his comments?