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Claire Headley Wonders, Was Kirstie Alley Doing Scientology’s “Doubt Formula?”

Kirstie_Alley2Claire Headley is taking us on our journey to train as Scientologists. She and her husband Marc were Sea Org workers who escaped from Scientology’s International Base in 2005. She spent years working with Scientology’s “tech,” and was trusted to oversee the auditing of Tom Cruise. Go here to see the first part in this series.

Claire, with your help we’ve learned something about the courses that Scientologists go through on their journey up the Bridge to Total Freedom. We’ve learned about staring contests and study technology and shattering suppression and the Purification Rundown, to name a few. What’s next?

CLAIRE: Next up is the Scientology Ethics Specialist course. While not officially a step on the Bridge, it’s a step that every Scientologist does. Also, it has some connection to what we’ve been hearing this week about Leah Remini and Kirstie Alley.

THE BUNKER: Do tell!

CLAIRE: OK, for this you would do another round on PTS/SP, and you study and clay demo each of the ethics conditions and their formulas.

In Scientology, each person is always operating in a condition. These conditions are “states of operation,” and Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard developed formulas for each of these conditions. The idea was that if you followed those formulas, you could improve your condition.

The conditions are as follows (from the highest condition down to the lowest):

Power Change
Power
Affluence
Normal Operations
Emergency
Danger
Non-Existence
Liability
Doubt
Enemy
Treason
Confusion

Everything from “Liability” and below are considered “lower conditions.”

THE BUNKER: And Hubbard would apply these definitions not only to individual people but groups. We remember last year, when we were publishing excerpts from his shipboard dispatches on the yacht Apollo, he would assign a condition to the entire crew, as well as to individual people. So a particular Sea Org member might be in “emergency,” but the Apollo itself was in “danger.”

CLAIRE: In theory, there is some common sense here about what sort of state a person might be in at any given time.

But In practice, the condition formulas are turned into an evil political tool. At least that was my experience. Whoever is in charge gets to play God and say who is in the good graces of the Church and who is in trouble, for any reason they so choose.

Up_The_BridgeThe ones that are really interesting are Doubt and Liability and their formulas.

In the Doubt condition, you are in doubt as to which group to be part of. Theoretically, you are deciding between two groups, the one you are in and the one you are considering joining.

Once you have decided, you then “announce the fact publicly to both sides.”

In reality, you will not be allowed to complete a Doubt formula until you decide to stay in Scientology, or the Sea Org — whatever it is you are applying the formula to.

So here’s a really good example. To the rest of the world, Kirstie Alley’s statements in regards to Leah Remini are astoundingly insane. Callous, mean, and downright evil. After all, it is anyone’s right to leave a religion if they so choose. Especially in the case of Scientology.

However, from a Scientology perspective, Kirstie was executing the perfect doubt formula. She was making a very public announcement denouncing Leah’s actions. Now, I’m not saying Kirstie was doing a doubt formula, I’m just saying I think this is a perfect example of one.

And for the Liability formula, you will be required to do the following steps:

— Decide who are your friends: The correct and only accepted answer to this will be ethical (ie. conforming) Scientologists who are actively contributing to Scientology.

— Deliver an effective blow to the enemies of the group one has been pretending to be part of, despite personal danger.

In summary, the ethics specialist course is used as a means of making Scientologists into compliant robots.

THE BUNKER: Can you give me an example of when you were on lower conditions?

CLAIRE: Ouch, that would be a tough one. I did lower conditions hundreds of times, no joke. That’s why the condition formulas are another item on the list of things indelibly committed to memory for me.

I did lower conditions for the first time when I was seven, in the cadet org. For the last five years I was at the Int Base, I and every other staff member (except David Miscavige and his personal staff) were all in lower conditions.

When you’re in lower conditions at the base, you get certain punishments. For example, I lost my “dining privileges.” I was expected to eat any meals outside, next to the garbage dump.

The garbage dump reeked of trash and rotten food. It wasn’t good for the appetite.

Not to mention it was humiliating in the extreme.

So I resorted to living on protein bars, and ended up losing 40 lbs in the process. Not fun.

THE BUNKER: And how does one get back into higher conditions?

CLAIRE: The final step of the Liability formula (the last of the lower conditions) is that you have to request approval from the members to rejoin the group, and you can rejoin only by majority approval.

So in practice, you have to write out everything you did for your Liability formula and then get the majority of the group members to sign it.

THE BUNKER: Somehow, we don’t see Kirstie signing Leah’s Liability formula, if she ever actually tries to get back in. So Claire, how do you move up the upper conditions, and who decides what condition you’re in? Is it about stats?

CLAIRE: Yes, on a general basis, it’s about stats. However, if a senior person decides you’re in a lower condition, it doesn’t matter what your stats are. If you have up stats, you are supposed to be protected.

But if that was ever the case, I never saw it.

THE BUNKER: Thank you, Claire. It appears that ethics conditions are yet another layer of conditioning on our way up the Bridge, another way that we’re programmed to think and act a certain way.

Price this week: $2,000. Total so far: $17,697.

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on July 16, 2013 at 15:00

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  • John P.

    Yeah, if Kirstie Alley is doing a “doubt formula” that was originally envisioned by Hubbard as a way to strengthen the group, it’s sure working. Her public tweets, which so bravely and courageously struck a mortal blow against the evil rotten SP Leah Remini, are now the foundational evidence which will probably spark a huge wave of negative press highlighting the fact that disconnection is alive and well in the cult of Scientology. And the odds that they somehow cause Leah and family to recant their suppressive ways, to stop being such obvious puppets of Big Psych and to come thronging back to the halls of the cult, are somewhere in the snowball-in-hell range. Way to go, Kirstie! Way to go, Hubbard!

    • Lark Smith

      WTF- there is a formula for this kind crap. Sorry, still relatively innocent in the ways of Hubtard.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        And for you newbies, for historic purposes, just wanted to let you know who L Ron Hubbard’s Favorite and Bestest MAA (ethics officer) was…Vixie (and no, I am not making this shit up.) Oh, and David Miscavige might have ignored a lot of Hubster’s crazy, but he has followed this crazy practice as well. Salute the dogs of scientology….they can sniff out out ethics from 100 yards.

        http://i42.tinypic.com/10fpdsp.jpg

        • Lark Smith

          Okayyyy… Um, I simply do not know how respond to this level of….going with crazy.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            You can never go wrong with crazy. But honestly, crazy doesn’t begin to cover it. Need a better coverage, riper word. Even Thesaurus doesn’t have it. So maybe a phrase meaning crazy on steroids in a demented 4th Dimension Hole?

            Where’s PI? She’ll know.

            • Lark Smith

              Rabid intergalactic lunacy ….perhaps RIL

        • John P.

          Trust Hubbard to turn a grain of truth into something dangerous and toxic. Corgis are herding dogs, so they have a very refined sense of right and wrong, at least in their world view. Corgi owners eventually get trained to recognize certain barks from their dogs that indicate that somebody is not working with the program.

          When I was married many years ago, I had a trio of corgis. When we were at that stage in the deterioration of the relationship that there were endless verbal battles, the corgis would run into the room and go to work. The two boys would interpose themselves in front of each of us and try to “herd” us apart so we would quiet down. The alpha girl would set up in a high alert pose to the side and tell the boys what to do next, ready to jump in and start herding the greater of the two offending human from behind if we didn’t stop arguing and move apart.

          It’s quite remarkable to watch them in action. Anybody that’s owned a corgi or other herding dog (Border Collies often do similar things, and Briards and Bouviers are notorious for managing their humans even more aggressively) knows what this is like and has similar stories.

          Incidentally, corgis do have real smiles and real senses of humor. When they feel like it, they can be real clowns to get attention, and they will stand back with a big smile and wait for the applause and approval for whatever clever thing they did.

          Hubbard, of course, turned this interesting behavioral instinct into yet another mechanism for arbitrary punishment and humiliation of his staff — if the corgi doesn’t like you, then you get overboarded, keelhauled, confined to quarters, sec checked or whatever random bit of cruelty popped out at that second.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            True enough. I had a herding dog too. There was absolutely No deterring her when she sensed something wrong. If you didn’t know what it was, you Had to stop and find out or figure it out. Vixie was Mary Sue’s dog. Your post now makes me wonder if she had her moments standing on one of the steps of the “Doubt Condition” , the subject of today’s blog, with Vixie nipping and squealing at her heal, right before Operation Snow White.

          • monkeyknickers

            Honey, I have two cattle dogs, an ex, a 4 year old niece, and a family who frequently begins meals with phrases like, “NO RED FUCK *YOU*”

            Our little loyal herding dogs don’t stand a chance, do they?. :(( I feel like Ashleen in constantly penned into a corner until I can put that stupid Happy Feet movie on and everyone goes into DisneyComa.

            • Casabeca

              Your life has got to be songwriting gold! Can’t wait for the twin stories to come :).

    • Marie Claire Wolf

      Yet TC seems to be an exception the the rule, he sees his child.

      • ThetaBara

        Does he? They seem to be trying to play it both ways. They haven’t been seen together since last year.

        • Observer

          Watch out, he’ll sue you for that!

          I think Suri is a painful reminder of his very public humiliation at the hands of Stealth SP Katie. He’s been denied the opportunity to turn Suri against her mother like he turned Conor and Isabella against theirs, and that’s gotta sting a Big Being.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            I’ve said before the only Real scientologist is an Ex scientologist. The bottom condition is called Confusion. The formula is simply “Find Out Where You Are”.

            It may take a hundred times, but eventually you do this formula correctly, find out that you are in a cult, and hit the road, like Katie.

        • pronoia

          I bet he does and that he is very careful to rarely be photographed with her. So as not to stir up the natives. The last time they were seen together it was from a great distance in Westchester county NY (sometime this spring)

          • media_lush

            I examined that closely and I’m pretty sure that was an old photo when they were still married…. quite simple to disprove as the “photo in the woods” shows Tommy Girl with Suri and she comes up to just past his hips. Photos of Suri a week either side of the trip clearly show Suri at the height of her mom’s boob level… given that Katie is quite a bit taller it was pretty conclusive to me that the photos were not as they were supposed to be [at least a year earlier]. Also the very few media outlets that picked it up were the obscure overseas ones that always post Tom PR puff crap…. none of the big media/gossip/paper sites posted them at all.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Kirstie’s tweets about learning what mistakes she’s made, while also patting herself on the back for her “good” creations is part of possibly Liability formula. Then there was her effort to troll via a loaded scientology recruitment survey question aimed at Under 25 year olds. This would be her making amends, or making up the damage.

    Here’s more on the ethics conditions and their purpose and the different steps. I remember the first few times I rejected My rejection of a formula on the basis it was My ethics my conditions and ethics are for the individual to apply, justice was group actions taken when the individual wouldn’t get their own ethics in.

    The second time, when I was on staff, a “mission” was in town, as usual, and I was put in a tiny room, maybe 6 x 6′, and barraged and humiliated and screamed at for long periods, told to “rewrite” my condition. Someone would come back, read it, reject it, and this went on for hours until finally, utterly exhausted and scared to death, I “realized” what I needed to write and do so. I am trying to remember that when I smiled at my interrogator as I turned in my worksheets that I was just pretending. I am So trying to remember it that way, but something tells me that I wasn’t pretending at all. I was broken. I believed what I had written. This was my last year in, and there are big empty spaces where my memory should be. Scary stuff. It is painful to revisit these moments.

    http://jeta.home.xs4all.nl/scn/Scn-dem-200401/scn/hco/ethics-introduction.html#lia

    • Minion Gayle

      HUGS!

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Well, thank you. And since I wrote that, and had a version of a Xenutini as suggested, I remembered that I DID break down shortly after that. Can’t remember if I outright said I wanted to leave, but I did say I could no longer be on post, that I couldn’t think, I couldn’t go another day. I was put on some light non org duty (don’t want to say what, too identifying), but I also began studying every course, policy, ethics issues I could. I had formerly been travelling in the other outer orgs and avoided “execs and management” like the plague. After this breakdown, I became the thing I dreaded the most…ethics plus exec.

        But I had a peculiar position so I was autonomous, I had free reign to move all around and I did the most outrageous horrible thing that literally freaked them all out: I was kind, compassionate, soft spoken. I let the staff and execs I worked with know I cared about them. I cried with them. I shared horror stories with them. I agreed that things were really, really fucked up and I promised I would get to the bottom of it and help fix it. I was in a position I might be able to do that. I was highest level OT at the time and I believed and they believed it.

        I spent all my “enhancement time” which is staff study or auditing, or supposed to be, on studying statistics, charts, everything I could get my hands on. I had an enormous pile of binders and references and I was fully absorbed and consumed about getting to the truth.

        I was shocked at what I found. When I presented it to those at Exec Council, they were shocked. When I presented it up lines and to other ethics/justice execs they were shocked.

        The next thing I knew, I woke up unable to get up off the floor, in excruciating pain. The RPF, naturally, followed, then the Running Program, then I got the hell out of there now that I could not only walk, but run.

        What I discovered at the time was unbelievable, it’s true. But really, it wasn’t until years later that i realized Exactly what I had discovered. All the stats were False. All of them. This was, in essence, the best example of a Doubt Condition which includes the step of figuring out the true statistics and intentions “without bias”. That is the two words of that one step of that one condition that got me diving into a rabbit hole of statistics.

        We all started out in scientology with Alice in Wonderland (on the comm course) and like Alice, drank the koolaid to make ourselves small, chased the crazy rabbit for our highs, and crawled our way out of the Hole with a new appreciation for our own piece of blue sky. (hat tip to Jon Atack – now you know why I love your title)

        • DeElizabethan

          Thank you so much for sharing your stories. It helps so much. <3

        • Minion Gayle

          It sounds horrible, but eventually it lead you to freedom (and us,) so I’m going to embrace the happy ending (and stick another pin in my dm voodoo doll.)

        • Lark Smith

          I’m so happy you reclaimed your life. I’m sure there were many obstacles but living without the fear of auditing and sec checks must be an epic win. The fact that you are able to share your thoughts in a helpful and kind manner speaks to your compassion and empathy for others. Well done

        • richelieu jr

          OW, THDNE.. I had no idea;. So glad you got out of there.. Knowing the truth will not be tolerated under any circumstances in those parts…

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Sorry I haven’t emailed, but now you have my story. Hope the baby teething is over and you are getting some sleep!

            • richelieu jr

              Teething’s just getting started, but the baby seeps all night and has for ages, thanks!

            • Robert Eckert

              “seeps all night” :-))

            • tetloj

              sounds like SOP for a baby 🙂

            • GlibWog

              Well as a Nursing Mother I seeped all night too!

            • monkeyknickers

              Holy shit does that happen?? Omg omg omg omg.

              I’m seriously changing my mind about this situation.

            • richelieu jr

              Ha!

        • MissCandle

          Lots of love to you from me.

        • Xique

          This story makes me feel sad. Here you were able to be kind and compassionate to your fellow staff , that alone just kills me. I too cared for my friends on staff, deeply, in some cases, but as you know, there comes a time when you must leave them behind. I also made a run for it and got away, mostly . I say mostly because my mate is still way , way down the rabbit hole.
          I respect you so much for sharing your experience, and for leaving, of course. All the best to you.

        • i-Betty

          All my love 🙂 xxx

    • Lark Smith

      I am truly sorry that you had to experience that, thank you for being here. As a mere Wog I had no real clue what was going on there. Your courage shines through in your writing.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Thanks. I try to write personal when I think it would help, but this isn’t about me. This is why I have put it out there, several times, and asked for all those still practicing scientology no matter what schism they belong to, Indies, Freezoners, Corporate, whatever …

        Can we At Least come to a Truce Agreement and Agree to Leave the Children out of it! You can’t practice Hubbard without the ethics and they all know why. And that’s includes interrogations, and that includes the Purif and All of it.

        When you hear Claire’s story or Jenna Miscavige Hill, or Astra Woodcraft or any of those who were raised this way, you hear what these children were feeling and thinking and their voices have been ignored far too long. The kids will tell you that kept silent with their parents or auditors or officers because they wanted to please their family and/or they were afraid they would lose their parents, perhaps even their home and friends. I hope one day I will see this happen….keeping the kids out of it. It’s just inhumane.

        • Lark Smith

          The lack of humanity is what is so shocking to me as a relative newcomer. My mother made me read Hubtard in the 90’s- it made no sense and I told her so. I think my teenage rebellion saved me a lot of grief. I am thankful poverty kept my mother from paying for the courses. She was such a wonderful Bliss Ninny- always seeking.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Bliss Ninny. hah, that’s a good one. I know what you mean. I don’t get how anyone got into from the 90’s on. Most are 2nd and 3rd gens, some 3rd world. It is hard to imagine even those who are into alternative to land in scientology world….there are so many more alternatives that don’t require your first born, your 3rd mortgage, and your last nerve to join.

            • Lark Smith

              Yeah, I think she liked the idea of personal responsibility -especially for me. What mother would not want to reign in a hard to manage teen. She found Buddhism before she passed on and it gave her a degree of peace.

            • Poison Ivy

              Buddhism was a safer choice, God bless her. The idea of personal responsibility is what Scientology professes to espouse on the surface. But look a little deeper. For instance, if you have a cold, it’s because you are connected with an SP. Sure, that means you take responsibility for your cold as something that didn’t just “happen” to you – “you pulled it in.” But what you are really doing is blaming some SP, from whom you must disconnect. In essence, you are blaming that SP for your illness. Thus, the cult uses the ruse of personal responsibility to isolate you more and more from the world and make you more and more beholden to the cult for approval, community, everything.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              I Really was attracted to the concept of personal responsibility the PR of scientology promoted. unfortunately, it turns out decoded it meant: You are responsible for everything bad happening to you and under the sun, and scientology is responsible for nothing but rainbows and sunshine and global peace.

            • richelieu jr

              And Unicorns. Don’t forget the Unicorns!

            • Lark Smith

              Mom found unicorns kind of tacky. They simply don’t compare when faced with buddhist sand art, temples, prayer wheels, and tapestries. Sorry

            • Jon Hendry

              Not to mention, unicorns are basically penis horses. The whole “lay its head in the lap of a virgin.” thing. Right. Got it.

            • Lark Smith

              Thanks PI -Fortunately COS lacked the Aesthetics (ritual, literature, music,dance, and myth/history) to real Mom in she liked her beauty and art.

            • Poison Ivy

              CO$ seems to take artists and bleed the creativity right out of ’em.

            • richelieu jr

              Gods, if there is one thing CoS lacks more than empathy, it’s aesthetics. Good on your mom!

            • richelieu jr

              SPs were so much easier to find, in the old days, like in Salem where all you had to do was find a woman with property (preferably a pretty one who had turned you down)…

    • SandiCorrena

      I just replied to that tweet of hers “uh-oh is that your liability formula showing?” with the hashtag #LovingLeah
      can’t believe i did it but I did!

      • Awesome! Trolling these clowns on Twitter is fun and occasionally cathartic. Helps spread the word too. Earlier today I turned someone tweeting about Kirstie & Scientology on to this blog. She was very interested to find out more about this stuff. It’s a good feeling. Tick tock Davey.

        • ThetaBara

          Good work! Individual activism totally matters – you have more credibility with your friends than a random person would, for one thing.

          • monkeyknickers

            Right on. Exactly right. It’s starts with one.

            Hopefully the right one.

      • monkeyknickers

        BECAUSE YOU ARE AWESOME!!!

        #sandirulesandisthebravest

        🙂

        • SandiCorrena

          I have renamed my beloved sock monkey in your honor monkeyknickers, hugs!!

          • monkeyknickers

            HUMBLE JOY THX!!!

            Ifya want another, I could knit it for you. Totally serious. Why not have two?! :))

    • ThetaBara

      How awful!
      You were doing what you had to do to take care of yourself as best you could in the situation.
      So, so glad you are out now! Please have some caek and a Xenutini!

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Sounds good to me!

        • ThetaBara

          Cheers! *clink*

        • GlibWog

          While Lurking I know that you have many, many, many friends here in the bunker.
          It’s Nice to know that Tony has given you a ” Safe Place to Land” Hole
          Cheers with my Mango Margarita.

          • monkeyknickers

            I canNOT figure out how to eat a mango. Or cut it up or whatever. **

            ** Keep in mind

            1) I didn’t even taste olive oil until I was 15. My dad made refried beans with it. Imagine the sooper ick factor. AND!

            2) I didn’t have an artichoke until 5 years ago, tho I had read about them. 🙂 AND:

            3) Government cheese and butter is essentially inedible.

            • GlibWog

              ha.. Monkey.. I still haven’t eaten an Artichoke. The Mango is a fabulous fruit.. and even better in Margaritas…

              Make sure it’s ripe ( stick your finger in it to make a dent..If no dent Not ripe ) Wash.. Even when peeled.. There is a HUGE Seed in the middle ( I mean huge) .. It is a delicious, sweet fruit. Yummy..

              Govt. shit..ugh yeah.. I agree.. I love, love, love refried beans. ( but not with olive oil..nope)

    • Observer

      I can’t even imagine. I am so glad you’re out.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        tks, didn’t mean to start a pity party, but what I went through is Nothing compared to those who’ve been in for decades and decades and still inside this hell hole are going through. When I state my opinion they must be totally mental by now, I am not being mean or exaggerating. But yes, some things get stirred up here, as many Ex’s have said. It’s important though.

        • Observer

          It’s not a pity party, it’s an empathy party. 🙂

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Ahhh, well that’s a horse of a different color. Now where’s that recipe for a Xenutini?

        • I kid around a lot but I truly feel for the staff members (the ones with good intentions anyway) that have been in for decades slaving and devoting themselves to this delusional dream for next to no money, no benefits and no retirement. I can’t imagine how crushed and broken they’re going to be when this all comes crashing down and they realize what a waste of time it was for the most part. That is truly heartbreaking to me.

        • monkeyknickers

          Don’t sell your ouch short sweetheart.

          For real. I swear to someone’s god that us thinking we have to fucking buck up when we’ve been hurt is the biggest hurt of all.

          Cry it out.

          It’s weird and cyber and I’m writing this in the middle of a barn in Oregon but . . . we love you, even if cyber-ly is the only way we’re granted that privilege.

          Kay?

    • Marie Claire Wolf

      So sorry you had to be so browbeaten, I hope your recovery from this misery is complete, although I suspect you still have flashback moments. Live well knowing you have support.

    • Poison Ivy

      So sorry THDNE. I am sad for you, having to go through that.

    • Jgg2012

      Notice that Remini is not making any tweets.

      • Robert Eckert

        She was making some personal responses to those who sent her supportive messages.

    • The Dakini

      Hugs and love my dear!

  • Claire you have my sincere sympathy for having trudged through that course (and well, everything else too). I can’t imagine what torture it must have been to clay demo each one of those steps. I’m all for looking up words but all that clay demo tech is pure nonsense and a complete waste of time (not to mention those ethics formulas for the most part).

    • Marie Claire Wolf

      Ditto here and many heartfelt thanks for educating this wog.

  • sizzle8

    Nothing like being assigned lower conditions and sent to ‘pig’s berthing’.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Not sure why it would be a Doubt Condition, unless Kirstie was having doubts about Miscavige or Scientology. If so, that’s good. That means a crack was made in the bubble.

      • Correct me if I’m wrong but a couple of years or so ago wasn’t she publicly bitching that OTV should have helped her lose weight? I know I recall something along those lines.

        Apparently “Reach that pie” wasn’t having a good effect on her…

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          That would be a couple of years ago. She would have gone through many pounds of conditions worksheets by now.

          • Marie Claire Wolf

            And pound cakes.

      • Simple Thetan

        It’s Doubt because the MAA says its Doubt.

  • Minion Gayle

    “I did lower conditions for the first time when I was seven, in the cadet org.”

    Even after all I’ve read about the cherch, it’s things like this that really smack me in the face. How can any parent be okay with their SEVEN year old being treated like this? Claire should have been playing with Barbies and climbing trees in her backyard, not trying to make amends in the cadet org.

  • HelluvaHoax!

    For Kirstie and other similarly advanced spiritual beings in the Church of Scientology, Leah would have to really “Deliver an Effective Blow to the Enemy…..” before they would sign her Liability Formula.

    So, what would Leah have to do exactly? Simple: Deliver an effect blow to the “enemy”. Effectively & essentially, to attack, Fair Game and destroy herself.

    That’s exactly how Kirstie (Tom Cruise, Jenna Elfman and other cult celebrities) ended up in the disgracefully & blindly hateful condition they are presently in.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      To rid oneself of self. That is the EP of scientology. Amen.

  • pronoia

    I wonder if Kirstie is somehow being held responsible for losing Leah in the 1st place? I mean, she is such a great being — if she had had her ethics in, she would’ve been able to cure Leah’s PTSness and stop her from turning into an SP.

    • Kirstie is out-ethics because all of her attention units are interiorized into cakes and pies. That’s causing her to not be able to perceive and pervade her environment as an OT. She has totally misduplicated COB’s admonishment about being pie-faced. Darn that overly literal reactive mind!

      • Simple Thetan

        Also, by her not preventing Leah from blowing, she enturbulated dm. Because of that the launch of super duper power is now further delayed. It’s all her fault.

    • ze moo

      A common ‘thought reform’ tactic is to pair the prisoner with another ‘normal’ clam and make the normal one responsible for prisoner and vice versa. They they can write up ‘knowledge reports’ on each other until the cows come home. As this causes both to get crazy, I doubt CO$ lets it whales undergo this procedure. Too easy to piss off the whale. Someone at CC INT is on the rpf right now for Leahs escape. Maybe they will walk away too….one can hope…….

  • Marc Headley

    Well Kirstie is doing amends for something…

    https://twitter.com/kirstiealley/statuses/357158231619026946

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      She’s been a very busy girl. I wonder what her stat for “bodies in the shop” wll be. by Thurs at 2? Under 25 year olds must count for Extra Extra Bonus Points these days. The recruiters will throw a parade in her honor.

      “see that white line down the middle of that road? Don’t walk it…lest U be joined by dead animals and blown out tires. Find your own path”

      “I have a serious question for all of you UNDER 25 year olds: What’s the ONE thing you would change if you had the power to change it?”

      “It’s a NEW day!!! I get to make amends for the mistakes I’ve made & add to the good things I’ve created!! Busy day!! XXOO”

      • Lark Smith

        Why does it sound like human trafficking?- bodies in the shop. Very creepy stuff

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          yes, and honest to gawd, new recruits or new members are referred to as “raw meat”. No, I’m not joking. That’s what I mean when I said Kirstie’s Under 25 yr olds tweet was her trolling for raw meat as doing her “amends”. It’s like the cat that trots in with a dead rat after it’s been scolded.

          • Lark Smith

            Jaw drops not sure if I should laugh or cry. I’ve have led a very sheltered life, communes and ashrams, they chant, dance, learn Sanskrit and yoga. Bliss themselves out with eastern philosophy and meditation. Not really my thing but it was pretty harmless.

          • Marie Claire Wolf

            Wow! Lost for words.

  • Observer

    “So here’s a really good example. To the rest of the world, Kirstie Alley’s statements in regards to Leah Remini are astoundingly insane. Callous, mean, and downright evil.” THIS!

    THIS is what Scientology does to people: it makes the astoundingly insane, callous, mean, and downright evil actions into something to which to aspire, deliberately stripping away people’s natural (natural to most leopme anyway) critical thinking skills so their value systems can be forced into the mold of LRH’s mental illness.

    THIS IS WHY SCIENTOLOGY MUST FALL!

  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

    She was such a sexy little Vulcan back in the first Star Trek movie. Who thought that life would turn her into a loud, large, Scientologist?

    • It really is sad. I always liked her on Cheers. Even got a kick out of her in Fat Actress.

      • sugarplumfairy

        I only saw part of one episode, but Leah Remini was in the scene I remember.. Kirstie was standing outside a shop as Leah is walking out with a group of friends.. Leah is complaining to her friends about gaining weight recently and says “but hey, at least I’m not Kirstie Alley fat..” and runs right into Kirstie..

        • DeElizabethan

          Some people re overweight because of whatever reason, but yo yo Krusty’s weight seems to be connected to what she may be experiencing in her cult through her processing, IMO.

  • Marc Headley

    Well Kirstie is doing amends for something…

    https://twitter.com/kirstiealley/statuses/357158231619026946

    As part of of scientology ethics specialist training one also learns how to raise one’s “Confront of Evil”. You learn that people that see things that are wrong and don’t do anything to fix it or confront those perpetrating the evil have a low “Confront of Evil” or are out-ethics and reasonable. You are also told that those who refuse to correct or point out wrongdoings are they themselves involved in wrongdoing or else they would not be complacent. Basically if you do not call someone else out on out-ethics you are yourself out-ethics.

    How ironic that Leah is the only one bitching about the wrongdoings and Krustie is just standing by watching and tweeting.

    Just like scilons to have this all perfectly worked out in their minds while in the real world Dave Miscavige is ass raping their bank accounts so he and Tom can go on their 5th honeymoon together.

    • Observer

      Fortunately Bodhi Elfman has high confro…hahahaha! Couldn’t get through that with a straight face!

      • DMSTCC

        Bodhi Elfman
        Born: July 19, 1969 (age 43), Los Angeles, CA
        Height: 5′ 11″ (1.80 m)

        Jenna Elfman
        Born: September 30, 1971 (age 41), Los Angeles, CA
        Height: 5′ 10″ (1.78 m)

        I gotta get me one of those Co$ rulers:

        • Observer

          Straight up and vertical–literally! *snicker*

        • BuryTheNuts2

          OMG! that is hilarious!

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Wait a sec….is he covertly giving her the finger? Is she sneering under breath “Stand Smaller, dammit”. spooky, evil scary lady. nix lady.

        • monkeyknickers

          You get an inch taller whenever you accuse people of raping babies in Los Feliz. It’s an LA thing.

          • Lark Smith

            Good to know, now I can be tall like an Elfman. Are you sure it won’t work in Albuquerque? That would save me some travel expenses.

            • monkeyknickers

              I can only assume it’s at LEAST worth a shot, Lark.
              You wouldn’t like Los Feliz anyway. Too many scientologists.

              Eagle Rock is cool tho. Just sayin 🙂

              EDIT: I happen to be tall like Elfman WITHOUT accusing innocent people of raping babies. But . . . . . I honestly think it’s been the Twinkies. I’ve DEF noticed a slowth in growing since hostess fucked America. Serious.

            • Missionary Kid

              Eagle Rock? I used to hang out with some close friends who grew up there. It’s filled in a lot since then. Cool?

              I knew someone who used to call it buzzard gulch. (It’s mostly a valley with the Eagle Rock at the East end).

            • monkeyknickers

              Ha!

              I live in Hollywood but I always thought Eagle Rock or HIghland park were really nice places

            • richelieu jr

              Hey, I used to date a girl fom Eagle Rock when I lived in… Los Feliz ( don’t worry, soon moved to Eco Park, the no Silver.ake… Seriously tho- I love that area. Still miss it after 20 years…

    • Man ain’t that the truth!

      Hey, are Scientologists not allowed to make public statements without using multiple exclamation points now? Between tweets and their ridiculous Facebook posts (see Black Rob’s wonderfully lulzy WWP thread) it seems like everything is like “I had a cognition when COB spoke at graduation!!!!!” “The light turned green – thank you LRH for the tech!!!!!” or “I’m so blown out and winning!!!!!!!!”

      Maybe a paltry single exclamation point results in a visit from the EO and lower conditions? Kind of like not wearing enough flair in Office Space? Insufficient exuberance = PTSness.

      • stateofcircle

        For those of you who haven’t seen BlackRob’s lulzy thread on WWP or ESMB, you need to stop what you’re doing right now and go.

        http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?25895-I-have-a-Thetan-who-does-things-to-my-mirror-and-it-s-annoying-What-Should-I-Do

        You think you know crazy? You think you’ve seen it all when it comes to the antics of Sciloons? Well buckle up kiddies, you won’t want to live on this planet anymore.

        • Lark Smith

          Um, it gets crazier? I’m barely managing the info here (shudder) and I like this planet. Can I get the abridged version so I don’t have nightmares?

          • GlibWog

            Yep.. Went over.. I am Stocked up in CRA CRA right now..ugh

        • That thread is seriously some of the craziest shit I’ve ever seen. Those people aren’t just drinking the koolaid, they’re drowning in it and loving it.

        • richelieu jr

          Guys throw a fellow a bone, will you?

          I’m signed up over there, but it says I can’t see that pager because I don’t have those ‘privileges’ yet;.. I think you have to post to get them,but I ma not an ‘ex’ and I’m not gonna bust into anyone’s conversation to win points, or whatever..

          What is happening?

          • tetloj

            https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/i-have-a-thetan-who-does-things-to-my-mirror-and-its-annoying-what-should-i-do.105033/

            Try this one at WWP….I think the ESMB might require you have a certain number of posts up

            • Lark Smith

              Yup, it’s there batshit crazy each and everyone of them. Though I believe they should leave the planet. According a few they already partake in intergalactic travel so it will be easier for them to leave. WTF

            • phronsie

              OMG. I’ve been reading about the abuses and insanity of scientology for years, and I have some understanding of how one can get caught up in an exclusive and polarizing group (ICOC) so that maintaining the group status quo leads you to set aside your own common sense and opinions, but that link? Wow. WOW! What truly utter batshit craziness!!! Holy moly.

    • Sam Domingo

      LOL! You have such a unique turn of phrase 😀

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        and so do You, Sam, but with the volume at 11. As a rock n’ roller, I Like that about you. (also, as an aging rocker, I Have to max the volume)

  • Truthiwant

    Scientologists always say that everything is just hunky-dory but infact they are forever doing the Danger
    condition in Ethics.

    In Scientology Ethics, the Danger Condition says:

    1. Bypass habits or normal routines.

    2. Handle the situation and any danger in it.

    Point 1 means “Don’t do what you have been doing in the past.”

    And point 2 means “Confess to one’s wrong doings.”

    However, in point 2, Hubbard gives you an escape route. He tells you not to confess
    openly to your errors because it could be dangerous to do that and instead he
    tells you to confess those wrong doings in a way that you don’t get in to direct
    trouble and at the same time he tells you to try and sway things your way to
    avoid putting yourself in Danger!

    It’s the typical Hubbard double talk and in the end, Scientology Ethics can be used
    in any way that the ‘Church’ want. If they don’t like you, you can be sure that
    their ‘Ethics’ will be used to destroy you.

    • dbloch7986

      You forgot “Write up all your overts and withholds”

    • DeElizabethan

      ‘Ethics’ will be used to destroy you.

      The bottom line. Right!

  • Karen715

    Okay, now I’ve got “Just Stopped In to See What Condition My Condition was In” stuck in my head
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2P7WMEUkuo

    • Marc Headley

      This one is the better version with the scene too!
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od_6M8cFdUA

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Ultramucho Perfecto! If only that video and lyrics was slapped on All scientology promo

        This is Your Brain on Scientology:

        “I pushed my soul in a deep dark hole and then I followed it in
        I watched myself crawlin’ out as I was a-crawlin’ in
        I got up so tight I couldn’t unwind
        I saw so much I broke my mind
        I just dropped in to see what condition my condition was in”

      • Karen715

        Cool. Believe it or not, I’ve never seen The Big Lebowski. Middle-aged me was just listening to the 60s station on Siriusxm the a couple of days ago when the song came on. Regardless of context, it just seemed perfect for this post.

    • N. Graham

      Psychedelic Kenny Rogers! Now it’s stuck in my head!

  • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

    Let’s discuss magnitudes.

    When we in the Church of Scientology are attacked by non-Scientologists we are speaking of only a tiny handful of religious bigots and haters.

    When we in the Church of Scientology are attacked by former members we are speaking of only a tiny handful of bitter defrocked apostates.

    When we in the Church of Scientology were attacked by Anonymous there were millions of internet terrorists who viciously attacked us with anthrax, AIDS, death threats, vandalism, hacking, and rose-scented perfume. That is why we asked law enforcement to appear in force and beat and arrest all Anons and throw them into prison forever.

    When our star witness was attacked in the Garcia case, it was by millions of Scientology haters on the Internet who so terrified him that he became catatonic and could not crawl out from under his bed. This is why only Church lawyers could interview him in Boston.

    When we speak of our growth, it is explosive, straight up and vertical. and at magnitudes never seen in the history of this universe.

    When we speak of this blog, it is a hater blog where only 3-4 people use sockpuppets to post at all day.

    Therefore, when we say that Kirstie Alley’s tweets are insipid blather read by no one, you can trust us because we know how to measure and assess magnitudes.

    • Observer

      And you know how to create magnitudes when reality isn’t cooperating … more or less.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        There is just a high rate of twins in Scientology. This is 100% fact.

        • Observer

          I can see an exteriorized thetan, too, but I’m wondering why he’s wearing clothes.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            The scientological cloning process has a few rejects now and then, but rest assured, the rejects are rejected by all his facebook friends or else.

        • aquaclara

          THAT is funny. Methinks Karen Pouw is going to steal this (once she gets out of the
          Hole, of course!).

        • N. Graham

          Yes, it’s been THOROUGHLY investigated.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Yes, and it is Scientific fact!!!
            It is a Scientology anomaly brought on by duplication!

            • Observer

              Have you checked your FB today?

        • cicely neville

          And a set of triplets – blonde in pink on R shows up 3 times, once without a head.

          Maybe cloning tech is not quite finished because it’s done in the unfinished SP building ? “Want to keep your heads? Send money!” Now there’s a thought…

        • monkeyknickers

          Shit! I hope I’m not adding to the population. 🙂

          • OMG! {Just where were you when you exactly when the immaculate conception of the fetuses took place? You may be carrying the next LRHes!!!!!!!!!!!!}. (notice the addition of enthusiastic Scientological Parentheses.

            • monkeyknickers

              I’m thinking . . . . unconsciously involved in yet another relationship where I was the CareTaker.

              Or . . . . Duluth? Lawrence KS? I dunno.

            • Damn so it didn’t happen while you were hanging around big blue looking for your sister, so the chances are slim, unless. . . Maybe he attached himself while you were there? Why yes, it is past my bedtime, why do you ask? Ps. Um contact us?????

            • monkeyknickers

              THETANS CANNOT BE TRUSTED.

              Especially that fat fucking bastard.

              :_

      • Jim Bklunt

        What event was this, when. What promo piece ?

      • Isaac Clarke

        Wow, that is mind blowing!

        And those two thin white lines are the key… ALL of the people are twinned below the 2 lines!

      • monkeyknickers

        How do you even SPOT that shit ??

        Jesus I wish I could post a pic of my sister. You’d find her in a nanosecond. Then I could kick her ass. OR let my less than 5 foot tall mama do it. That you DO NOT want to see.

        • Observer

          It wasn’t me. I believe it was Arnie Lerma who found it.

          • monkeyknickers

            Well , , , ,

            can you still find my sister? IF only so I could smack her?

            • Observer

              Sure! Just postulate what she looks like at me and I’ll see if I can find her.

            • monkeyknickers

              Kay . . . . Postulating gorgeous, black-haired, velvety brown girl who says she’s mexican or peruvian or asian or something instead of indian because it’s easier. AND . . .ehm . . . .a visibly bad fucking attitude and a sign on her head that says -” I seriously need an ass kicking. And here’s your 30k Sis I was just kidding!”

              Let me know when you find her!!

            • Observer

              Serious and hopefully not stupid question: why would it be easier to say she’s of a different heritage than she is?

      • Lark Smith

        Freaking unbelievable. Great find. Thanks for sharing

      • GlibWog

        Did this flop of a Photoshooop in 1999 stop the Chirch from doin it again to inflate numbers ?
        Well , duh ? May 2013 Portland.. Confetti flew.. Oh yes it did..

    • Man that’s brilliant! If I could upvote this 1000X I’d do it!

      • Robert Eckert

        Create new orders of magnitude of up-arrows!

    • Jgg2012

      Where is–oh, wait, I’m not supposed to ask that. OT8, I notice you still haven’t shown us a perfect clear.

      • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

        Every 6 seconds of everyday a perfect Clear is made at Flag!

        Moreover, the Flag Building is set to open very soon, factually as soon as we can figure out how to filter bodily fluids out of the oil in the Oiliness Table.

        The Oiliness Rundown Gigantic Anatomy Scientology Massage is done in the nude with a twin to the full EP. Scientologists, sex-deprived as they are, find this aggressive variation of touch assist technology just too terribly exciting.

        http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a563/OTVIIIisGrrr8/scientology_oiliness_tabletop_zps74e9adca.jpg

        • DeElizabethan

          Ha, hahahahahahahah!

        • Observer

          Ewwwwwwwwww!

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            eww is right. Seeing this picture again reminds me, it’s not so much the oil, but those thingamabobs standing at attention to the side. I don’t want to know what they are for.

            • Observer

              I was looking at those, and I think I know what they’re for. There are two of each shape (at least for five of them), one set in the oil and one set out. I bet the sooper power trainees have to feel a non-oily widget and then then the corresponding oily one, and then “percept” the difference.

              I wonder if these stations will be like the rides at Disneyland used to be, where you had to use tickets of varying values for the rides. The oiliness table is an E ticket fer sure!

        • Robert Eckert

          Yes, “perfect” Clears are all well and good, but how often is a “motherfucking” Clear made?

          • Espiando

            As soon as The Dark Lord Chuckles The Silly Piggy finds the last pieces of the “lost tech” of the Oedipus Rundown.

          • monkeyknickers

            If you give me 50K and sit opposite me holding two cans of campbell’s cream of mushroom wired to a light bulb while I ask you bullshit questions, it will ALL BE REVEALED.

            Please make it a money order.

            And also, I want to marry Jason Beghe even if he is like 800 years older than me.

            • Damn that makes me like 2000 years older than you cuz he looks like a kid to me.

            • monkeyknickers

              Well I’m 32 (in reality) and 25 (in public music biz years) so . . . . . that makes him, . . .. what. 97?

              OH JUST KIDDING.

              The twins’ donor is about that age, but I’d rather marry Jason Beghe. Or at least hang out at their house and babysit. Whatevs.

              did you get me “hi contact me” thing? I’m not sure why this is so fucking hard for me to navigate. 🙁 Small brain. Always the culprit.

            • Hit the button thing that floats on the page. Just checked. Nothing yet. Don’t reply to comments hit the actual contact us floatie button that’s black.

            • Poison Ivy

              Jason was 2 years ahead of me in college. But I’m not telling you how old that makes me.

            • monkeyknickers

              Well that’s not really a good idea PI. Because YOU ARE MAKING ME DO MATH ARE YOU CRAZY.

              !!

              Did you hear what I said about writing sweetheart? You should. you should REALLY.

              Take it from me, you must . . . . and if you doubt my cred . . . . I was just SO SO lucky to be born knowing EVERY DAMN THING there is to know in the world. Cool huh? It’s like sooper magic. ! 🙂

        • Jgg2012

          That sounds like a fundraising pitch. Did you send out our Burlwood pens?

          • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

            The burlwood pens will be sent out when 10,000 people are on SOLO NOT’s.

            COB said at a recent Flag graduation that this will happen very soon.

            • Observer

              Soon in wog time, or soon in thetan whole-track time?

        • CharlieWaters

          So how many ORGASMs will Flag be able to make happen each day?

  • Espiando

    Seems to me that Krusty is exhibiting every Condition all at once…

    Power Change: With this tirade, I would say that the change is of the negative variety.
    Power: Or so she thinks.
    Affluence: Not if she keeps giving to the {church}.
    Normal Operations: Normal for a Scilon.
    Emergency: She had to call an “emergency meeting” of her fellow CelebOTs.
    Danger: Her {religion}, her {career}, her {fill in whatever you want in sarcastic font}.
    Non-Existence: Oh, we wish. We can only wish.
    Liability: She’s one big fat liability to The Dark Lord Chuckles The Silly Piggy at this point.
    Doubt: Not her, but everyone else in re her sanity.
    Enemy: She’s definitely become one to Leah.
    Treason: Does throwing a friend under a bus count?
    Confusion: It’s such a terrible shame. Confusion, you don’t know what you’re sayin’…

    …and now she’s made me break into ELO. Bitch.

  • Jgg2012

    What I was amazed by is how quickly Alley basically admitted she was wrong, going from calling her evil to saying she can choose her religion. Is this an example of Scientology’s 2-faced approach (we’re for 1st Amendment rights / anyone who attacks us is evil); was Alley told she was causing PR problems; was she trying to prevent others from leaving?
    If a child from a Catholic family announced he was converting to Judaism, the family would be surprised, perhaps upset, but would not disconnect or publicly ridicule such person. Nor would the Church itself–members leave (and others join) all the time.
    When one Scientologist leaves, is it incumbent on the others to say “hell no, I’m staying!”? I don’t get it.

    • ze moo

      Anything that causes clamatolgy any bad publicity is reason for sec checks and thought reform. Krusties mistake was doing some of her bitching in public. Can’t have the general public seeing the bitching and general nastiness that accompanies a disconnection. $cientology can only buy good pr on the paid for press release sites.

      All the {supposed} good pr that John Travolta did in the last 2 or 3 weeks has come to naught because of Leahs escape. JT is probably pissed off at all involved, his steps A thru E have been set back to square A. We may see him either distance himself from the scam or even publicly walk away. Given his wife’s known ‘dedication’ to the clamdom, I doubt he’ll publicly do anything but pretend to be a happy clam, but he will carry much more resentment.

      Tom Cruise was happy that finally after 1 year of being Lroons poster boy for good communications and marriage, the media was finally moving away from Tomkat. Though for some reason the paparazzi has to get a picture of Katie or Katie and Suri at least 3 times a week. I don’t care what a 7 year old or her mother wear in NYC. Now TC has to dodge questions about disconnection and ‘thought reform’. If he had a brain, he would think about how his relationship to the kleine fürher was benefiting him and notice no benefit.

      Clamdom used to get what it wanted by the carrot and stick method. Now they just use the stick. Whales and others will not respond to the stick alone. Throw in the lack of new meat and the implosion of clamdom can only accelerate. Little boots will make someone pay for all this, who will it be???

      • Jgg2012

        He’ll probably attack some celeb for “not being scientologist enough” the way Milton Katselas was attacked. Look for more defections.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      It’s hard to explain, except perhaps an inversion of the two-faced concept. It’s more like a “No Face”

      http://i41.tinypic.com/9rkhef.jpg

  • El_Jeffe

    In my 28 years of experience with the C of $, one NEVER gets out of Lower Conditions until you admit & testify to the brilliance of LRH, the outstanding group of people that you are with in the {Church} and how evil & screwed up everyone outside of the {Church} is. Thought reform in its purest form. Until you have these 3 things in your write-up in one form or another you were never given a “Pass.”

    • ze moo

      North Korean ‘reeducation’ is only slightly worse then Scientology.

      • Maybe Dennis Rodman was just doing a spoof of Tom Cruise when he visited the “leader of leaders” and we all missed it.

  • dbloch7986

    In all fairness, I called it first in the comments earlier today…. Haha

    I’ve done “lowers” hundreds of times. If payday comes along in the Sea Org and you are in “lower” conditions, sometimes you don’t get paid at all, sometimes you might get as much as $10. So often people are in a rush to get them done before Friday.

    Examples of things that you can get lower conditions for:

    Questioning policy
    Questioning an executive
    Losing a key card
    Forgetting to shred a document
    Sending an e-mail to the wrong person
    Staying up too late
    Being too tired to work
    Being too tired to go on course/in session
    Being sick
    Asking for a transfer to another org
    Asking to leave the Sea Org
    Talking to someone about leaving the Sea Org
    Laughing while on the job
    Making jokes

    The conditions are particularly humiliating because not only does EVERYONE know that you are in “lowers” but you have to tell everyone what you did to get there. This is so that they can judge your amends against your crime and see if you really made it up or not.

    In my case I had to tell everyone I had a relationship with another young man. It was excruciating.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      and don’t forget “being a problem” or “being a victim”. I got pretty hot under the collar when I saw the Hubbardites hurling that loaded hate word at you not long ago. But that is how f*kd up they are, not just in their heads, but in their hearts. Compassion, empathy, sympathy is “down tone” and of course the more “down tone” you are labelled to be, the more crimes you must have and hence, stuck in lower conditions. evil, scary stuff.

      • brendon

        This quote illustrates your point. It is ostensibly from Kirstie on the Facebook page where primarily she hawks her weight loss stuff. (July 9) “Dear girl on ABC Extreme Weightloss …STOP CRYING every Fing second!!!!! God!!! I’ve never seen a bigger victim in my life!!!! lol”

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          I have to say that honestly, the majority have a real problem going into the “narcissist valence” although I make no claims to understand those still in this last decade. I Am seeing and hearing much more of exactly those characteristics now though. But it really didn’t use to be that way. We were stupid, but not mean.

          • brendon

            Pure conjecture on my part, but I wonder if it is analogous to boiling something down to make it more concentrated? As the people who truly “think for themselves” and who are willing to actually look at the internet or actually consider Debbie Cook’s letter and decide to leave, all that is left is the hard(end) core. Not to mention the attitude that comes from the top. It was emulated by others in the top ranks and I hear stories of it also manifesting itself throughout the SO. Could it rub off on staff and even public? The “spirit” of the organization becoming basically mean in a way unrecognizable to the days when “if it isn’t fun it isn’t Scientology.”

    • Do you think it’s sometimes done to avoid having to pay staff? I mean they are notoriously cheap (except with Dave’s scotch and lawyers).

      Damn “staying up too late” and “being too tired to work” is pretty mean since they force them to stay up all hours to meet stat quotas. Talking about rigging the game – “Scientology – the only game where everybody loses”

      • dbloch7986

        Yes. Just like the RPF is used to perform renovations.

        • Gotcha – good comparison. I love how LRH was “outraged” to find out that was being done. Yeah right…

  • Scientia

    Didn’t Kirstie once have to do a Liability formula for (gasp!) drinking a glass of wine whilst on OTVII?

  • 1subgenius

    STOP!
    I can’t keep up with the comments.

    CONTINUE!
    (Thanks for the brief interlude)

  • Sherbet

    I sure love me some Claire, but I’m up to my eyeballs in anything Kirstie-related. I’m Kirstie-sated, Kirstie-glutted, over-Kirstie’ed, full to the brim with Kirstie and then some, drowning in Kirstie tweets, Kirstie crap, Kirstie-ana. I’ve run the Kirstie alphabet from A to Z, my Kirstie quotient is off the charts, and my Kirstie meter has blown a fuse. I hereby holler “Uncle!” Enough of the blonde bubblebrain for this gal. I’ll be back, but not today. Ciao, Bunkees.

    • Robert Eckert

      That accursed Kirstie is not up my alley! I mean, Jesus Kirst!

      • Sherbet

        I don’t know whether to scream or laugh, Rob-E! I guess I’ll laugh.

  • FLUNK_101

    I believe I have something to say, something that really needs to be said …

    CLAIRE: In theory, there is some common sense here …”

    Now, if I said that, if I said there was something about the conditions that made sense, I’d get my ass chewed out.

    SPF would go, “AAAAGGGHHHH!”

    And, if I had the temerity to complain about SPF’s dismissive attitude, the Howdy’s and the Robert Eckert’s would come out of the woodwork, to tell me I’m mentally ill.

    I don’t see anyone saying that about Claire Headley.

    Tory Magoo said she loved OT III!
    But, how many people (over the past year) tried to tear me a new one, just for saying I had a “win ” on Self Analysis, even though it has NOTHING to do with past lives, engrams or body thetans?

    WTF?

    • Mark

      We ‘never ins’ need to listen to you ‘now outs’ with a little more respect. Some things in Scientology presumably do make sense, or else nobody would ever join it. That you survived the stuff in Co$ that are pernicious rubbish is simply a tribute to your sanity and strength of character.

      • FLUNK_101

        Thanks, Mark. I really enjoy what you contribute this blog. I loved those Kincaide paintings … and I loved the tapeworm, too!
        Thank you sir!

        • Mark

          (Blush)

      • aquaclara

        I agree. Actually, if Davey treated people nicer, the cult wouldn’t be crashing like it is.

    • Robert Eckert

      What you have been doing lately is to complain about SPF when she has not spoken a single word to you.

      • FLUNK_101

        False.

        • Robert Eckert

          She has not been speaking to you for quite some time. Yet you continue to complain about her “attacking” you, without any words being directed at you.

          • FLUNK_101

            SPF made a stupid remark to an ex, Christine B, last night, and today to me. That’s enough. And it just so happens that I care about exes coming on to this blog, you fucking creep.
            And believe me, you wouldn’t be saying this stupid shit to me if we were standing face to face, you fucking coward.

            • Mark

              Calm down, now, lads…

            • Captain Howdy

              You’re stuck in an incident.

            • aquaclara

              Do you know if Christine is coming back? I really do hope we haven’t lost her. Sometimes it takes a thick skin here, but that shouldn’t be needed here for an ex. I think you’all went through enough.

            • Captain Howdy

              Flunk didn’t go through shit and barely spent anytime in scientology according to him. He’s going off like clockwork because a YEAR ago some people questioned the validity of his wins in auditing. He can’t or won’t let it go.

            • FLUNK_101

              I was active for 6 years and I attested to Clear, you fucking liar.
              And you’re one to talk about not being able to “let it go.”
              You used to harass me relentlessly, here and on Rodeo, for no justifiable reason.
              Please punch yourself in the face so I don’t have to track you down and do it myself.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              You are now publicly advocating physical violence, and intention to commit a crime, Flunk. Please take a walk, breathe in and out, and call your therapist. Please. Now.

            • FLUNK_101

              Please feel free to punch yourself in the face as well! Be my guest, you no-talent half-wit!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              I feel your pain, Flunk. It really sucks, doesn’t it? Is there anything I can say that would help you reconsider talking to your therapist to help ease that pain a little? You’re not a bad person. I don’t believe that. I just wanted to let you know that you are causing yourself a potential problem here that would just bring more hurt to the situation and I know you don’t want more. Is there someone who you can talk to that can help?

            • FLUNK_101

              Thank you for that, Hole, and I apologize for insulting you. I thought you were piling on with the others who like to ridicule and insult me … and coming from you, believe me it hurt, and I am crying as I type this, and the keyboard is a teary blur.
              Why do you people criticize for getting angry at people who are so fucking mean … and stupid? Anger is one way of making my point when all else fails.
              I am not perfect. I have seen a therapist, and I still stop in from time to time when I need to talk.
              But as far as this situation is concerned, I would like to quote James Brown. One of his songs is called “Static,” and this is what it says:

              Don’t start none
              Won’t be none!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              I suggested you talk to someone exactly because you thought i was piling on you, when I was trying to help. Hey, it happens to anybody and everybody…when we are in pain, we lash out at the very people trying to help. It’s just human, Flunk. We all do that. No big deal. So go talk to someone, preferably your therapist. I wouldn’t suggest it at all if I didn’t think it might be of some help to you. But if not, can I suggest taking a break from the Bunk since it doesn’t exactly put you in your happy place? I really hope you will consider it and think about it.

            • FLUNK_101

              Tell it to SPF!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              I asked her politely to back off. She did. I am asking you politely to talk to someone. Will you?

            • FLUNK_101

              OK. Can we let it go for now? And can we please stop with the insinuations of mental illness? I would really appreciate it. Thanks.

            • Zlogonje

              all you want to do is disrupt the bunker. you have many loose screws. mental ill persons never admit they ill.

            • EnthralledObserver

              As a mother of five I’m getting particularly pissed off with this childish behaviour! I think you need to go sit with you face in the corner (i.e. give the bunker a rest) for a couple of days whilst you reflect on whether THIS little spat with SPF is a battle worth continuing. Adults know when to just let things go… and I’d suggest you look deep inside yourself now for the adult within that can put this in perspective for you. It’s NOT acceptable to call people names (and before you cry like a child “they did it to me first”, I’m talking to them too!), nor hit (or threaten to). SPF doesn’t want to apologise, and that’s her right, whether you agree with it or not, so now you are left with only one option that so far you are refusing to take – IGNORE HER! ffs… it’s not hard to be adult about this… it’s really not. Get on with what is important and let go of the crap.

            • DeElizabethan

              Well stated EO. ‘Like’ button.

            • Robert Eckert

              You get angry at people who are not being mean, let alone “fucking” mean, or stupid. This is the problem here.

            • FLUNK_101

              You may have been here everyday, but like I’ve said before, “you haven’t walked in my shoes.”
              You don’t believe what I say. That’s YOUR ignorance, not mine. But just the same, wether you’re right or wrong, you have a right to express that opinion of yours. I think you’ve made it clear enough, don’t you think?
              Give it a rest, Mr Eckert. Time will tell …

            • Robert Eckert

              I don’t believe what you say because I see what has been posted here for myself. You characterize it as directed at you, but it simply is not. I know what paranoia looks like: my half-brother and half-sister have suffered from it much of their lives; he has cut himself off from everyone for quite some time now so that I cannot even be sure he is still alive, while she at least has gotten to the point of no longer considering everyone an enemy who tries to help her. One thing I know for sure: the worst thing to do to someone in the grip of paranoia is to validate the delusions. You are demanding that everyone agree with you that you have been insulted and abused, when we can all see that you are inventing all the “attacks”.

            • Sandy

              Robert. I have a cousin who imagined I was peaking in her windows. I understand and hope he is not in the grips of that.

            • Robert Eckert

              At one point, the brother was talking to me about how his boss was in cahoots with the Mafia conspiracy to rig all major sporting events in the country (then, of course, he had a showdown with his boss and got fired) while the sister was telling me that the brother had hidden cameras in her bedroom to sell the videos for porn. Then I did not hear from either of them for a long time (they are half-siblings on my father’s side, and after my father’s death we were out of touch for years, so we are not very close), until the brother e-mailed me saying that he was going to Israel because Mossad was looking for super-geniuses like him, and since I shared some of the genes maybe I should come too? I got ahold of his mother and she went out and got him, and had him seeing a shrink and taking meds for awhile, then he got weird again and split. I got a message from him that he had fortunately detected just in time that the CIA was poisoning his meds, and so he had flushed them down the toilet, with a photo of a little red spot on his skin, maybe a spider bite, which proved they were sneaking into his room to inject him, and that was why he had to disappear for a while– it’s been years now.

            • FLUNK_101

              Can we drop it for now? Thanks.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              You know after today’s crazy…and last night…and a spat on the Rodeo that completely blindsided me… (over what appears to be a complete misunderstanding no less)…I gotta say….

              I think I am done with the bunker for a while.

              I loved it here for a long time and I learned a shit load of things. Way beyond Scientology and I thank all of you for that. I sincerely do.
              You folks have been incredible for the most part.
              Really…I have learned so much I would never have known. I love those of you who helped me learn and I love the fun we had.

              But I guess I don’t understand human beings so much as I thought.
              And after today, I don’t love them as much as I thought either.

              I guess I really am a “meanie”.

              I used to be friends with some folks here too (I am sure a couple of those will continue off line), but I feel like a piece of garbage now.
              Today on the Rodeo, I was told what a “nasty piece of work” I am.
              And I like myself too much to be treated as such.
              I will find a place where I can add more value.

              Good luck to each and every one of you and lets keep up the good fight to see the COS come crashing down.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Wot? Okay, take a break and breathe. It will be alright in the morning, I hope. This stuff gets hard and emotional sometimes. Hugs here.

            • sugarplumfairy

              If you leave, they win..

              I say we immediately employ ignore tech.. Ignore anyone who launches personal attacks.. No trying to reason, just flat out ignore..

              You’re not a meanie, Bury.. You say what you think.. There’s a difference..To thine own self be true.. And you are true.. The majority of us here adore that about you.. Give up the rodeo if you need to, but don’t leave us..

              I certainly understand if you need a break.. But please make it a short one..

            • DeElizabethan

              Ditto that – Luv

            • EnthralledObserver

              Don’t leave! (for good) *begs*

            • Captain Howdy

              WTF? You’re leaving over my dead body. Let me go over to rodeo and check this out

            • sugarplumfairy

              Go get her, Howdy.. Drag her back by her hair if you have to..

            • Captain Howdy

              I like PTBA2 and I’m really shocked she would write something like that. It was an obvious misunderstanding..I think. Maybe she was having an episode.

              This is what happens when people get too emotionally involved with anything. You always have to keep a little something in reserve to protect yourself.

            • Jon Hendry

              There’s church chum in the water, and we’re all a little over-stimulated.

            • Sidney18511

              What and where is this rodeo site, I need to check this out for myself. Bury can’t leave the bunker….bury IS the bunker.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Ditto… was just about to ask this myself – “rodeo” is a place I do not frequent.

            • Robert Eckert

              I signed up for it when Tony O went dark (in between Village Voice and getting this site) but then he was back so I never took up the habit of posting there, but do still get the e-mail notices:

              http://groups.google.com/group/scientology-rodeo-watchers-from-the-village-voice/topics

            • Captain Howdy

              You need to go here and apply for membership. Don’t worry nobody gets denied (they let flunk & me in!). It was started as a way station when Tony left the Voice.

              https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/Scientology-Rodeo-Watchers-From-the-Village-Voice

            • Isaac Clarke

              Until she goes to bed

            • sugarplumfairy

              love you, Bury.. But you’d be the last person I’d ever expect to allow some offensive, random internet twit to make you feel bad.. Who cares what they think? Let us learn from kirstie..

              “When faced w malicious gossip I take a moment to experience the loss of the person I thought was my friend… Then I say f–k em..:)”

            • Robert Eckert

              It wasn’t any old random person, but a long-timer (Prefer2BeAnon, i.e. Alice looking down the hole / Chaz Bono in a light-blue tie-dye T-shirt) getting bent out of shape by some misunderstandings that escalated. I hope both will be back when tempers have cooled.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Me too, Robert.. And thanks for trying to help today..

            • MissCandle

              Don’t leave me / us!

            • Espiando

              BTN, if I left every time someone told me I was a “meanie”, I wouldn’t be allowed on half of the Internet. Instead, I ignore them and continue on my way, being just who I am. And considering that you’re about a hundred times nicer than the way I am, there’s no reason for you to cut out.

              The whole thread at the Rodeo sounded like an audit on the fourth dynamic, by which I mean the dynamics of fourth graders. We’re a lot more mature than that. Even me.

              So fuck ’em if they can’t take a meanie.

            • DeElizabethan

              She’ll be back swingin’ no doubt! Women need a little rest now and then that’s all. Since I am a woman I can relate so that’s MO. She’s also been on many, many other sites helping for the last 4 days too.

            • Karen715

              Your posts have reverted to “Guest” so I don’t know if you’ll see this but don’t go. You aren’t a nasty piece of work. You are a ballsy broad with a very strong BS detector, who says what she thinks. You among, a few of the other regulars, are why I decided that it would be okay to post here, even thoughI don’t really have much to offer to the discussion except for my opinions. For some reason or other, tempers seem to be high the last couple of days (maybe because there is a lot of news to absorb.) Step back if you must, but come please come back

            • Unex Skcus

              Sending you some ‘happy vibes’ over the ether, from Aus. 🙂

            • Captain Howdy

              BTN it’s obviously a misunderstanding on the other persons part. I mean come on, that was just ridiculous what i read. I would have just laughed and asked her if she was high or drunk.

              When Flunk or anybody else on the internet insults me I don’t take it personally and I just return the favor, but there’s no real emotion involved.

              It’s like I said one time about working in restaurants. When you get slammed pretty soon the cooks are yelling at the waitresses which makes them yell at the busboys and they yell at the dishwashers. After it’s over it’s forgotten and everybody goes to the bar and get’s drunk and tries to get in each others pants.

              I here by order you to please..

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EY7lYRneHc

            • sugarplumfairy

              Yah!

            • DeElizabethan

              LUV’D IT!

            • Observer

              Nooooooo!

            • SandiCorrena

              I love you BTN; we’ll keep the light on!

            • dbloch7986

              BTN2, you need to come back as BTN3. Or I will go get my power tools.

            • DeElizabethan

              Rest up, it’s been a crazy 4 days. I remember back another time awhile back, after such a lot of stuff that I too needed a rest. So I understand your need to take a break. Hurry back and talk soon. <3 I think it's called R & R.

            • aquaclara

              You are not a meanie. Come back tomorrow, fresh start, ok? We have a cult to clear!

            • Zlogonje

              don’t leave bunker. you are best. you leave and troll wins. he has long con running, everyone suckered. he want bad feelings in people and want fights. I see this plain. why no others know he has long con plan to destroy community?

            • Anonolily

              You are right about the wanting bad feelings in people.
              It is just a long con…big time.
              She will be back.
              Bet on it.

            • stateofcircle

              Well, even if SPF insulted you regarding your time and opinion on Scientology, and others pile on, I think that maybe posting personal, below-the-belt insults might not be the best idea. That does’t just go for you, Flunk. If we are going to be mean or hurl insults at each other, let’s all at least try to keep it about Scientology.

            • aquaclara

              Just chiming in, bearing donuts. Come back tomorrow, new day with a fresh start, ok?
              I was never in, so I can’t imagine the pain of sorting through all this for real. But there will always be more things here that will trigger a reaction from an ex that maybe others won’t always see. (Not at all on the same playing field, but I am a republican and a Catholic, and used to have an accent that would incite a few chuckles, pretty much all fair game here on a regular basis). It can sometimes take me off-base for a bit, but i just try to move along. i can’t waste time on the things that will derail me. Especially because I do love hearing the thousands of excellent comments every week here, from a billion different points of view. This may not work for all things, and it may not work for you.

              This is a nice note, ok, so you can’t read anything into this one other than nice things.
              I love your good comments and your funny ones. Forget the other sh*t, just for a bit so we can go take on the damn cult.

              I like the chocolate-glazed donuts best. How about you?

            • FLUNK_101

              “there will always be more things here that will trigger a reaction from an ex that maybe others won’t always see.”

              Thanks aquaclara. We all have our sensitivities, that’s for sure.

              You sound pretty cool. I really, really appreciate what you said.

              And thanks for the donuts!

            • dbloch7986

              We’ve had our disagreements Flunk. SPF is a nice lady. She really cares. For someone who’s never been through what we have, you’d be hard pressed to find anyone as passionate as the people here, SPF included. I would respect her passion as empathy for you rather than interpret it as something distasteful.

            • aquaclara

              This is why we’re here. Well, that and finding out what the oiliness table will really be used for.
              And the occasional donut or taco.

            • Unex Skcus

              This is getting worse than {terrorizing} Mr Culkin.

            • Espiando

              And people think I’m an asshole?

            • sugarplumfairy

              Lol.. No they don’t. Didn’t want you to think I up-arrowed because I agreed.. I up-arrowed because you’re frking funny..

            • Captain Howdy

              “yawn” I’m not worried about a drama queen attention whore little baby who lives with his mom kicking my ass..FREAK!

            • FLUNK_101

              Maybe you’re stupid. That would explain a lot.
              As far as me living “with my mom,” that’s quite an indictment coming from someone who’s on public assistance.
              I live alone. I have my own apartment in NYC. I make my living as a musician, and I’m damn proud of it, too.

            • Captain Howdy

              So why did you say before that you share your computer with your mom? And I’m not on public assistance, I’m on SSDI ,which you can only get from working. You need help and you’re not going to get it here. This nonsense has been going on way too long. I’m all done with you in any way, good or bad. You’re like every other mentally ill person I’ve ever interacted with..a tiresome nerve racking pain in the ass.

            • Espiando

              Hey, Cap, there are some mentally ill people who aren’t tiresome nerve-wracking pains in the ass…okay, I am, but I’m sure there are some out there who aren’t.

            • Captain Howdy

              I should have qualified it by saying “when they don’t take their medication”. Sorry.

            • FLUNK_101

              Can we stop with the pseudoscientific diagnoses of mental illness, Dr Howdy?
              Thx.

            • Isaac Clarke

              24 HOUR BAN on meanies being mean, let’s try it, meanies:)

            • FLUNK_101

              “So why did you say before that you share your computer with your mom?”

              I was visiting with my mom.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Aaaaaggghhh!

              Not everyone will always agree with you..Get over it already.. I’ve interacted with many, many exes here and you are the only person who has an issue with me.. To name the few I can recall right now:

              THDNE, Derek, deLiz, Roger, SemperPhi, Dodo, Victoria, Theo, Marc, Synthia, Tory, Christine, OTgrVIII, Michael Leonard, Vistaril, Xique, Dean, George, Jensen, Deedee, David Love, Kate Bornstein. Jason, Brian Culkin, Chuck Beatty, 10Orios, Turtlez, Alanzo, Luke.. And many others I can’t remember or I’m not sure they’re exes..

              Now, quit derailing.. Life is short.. Now, give us a hug..

              Hug O’ War

              a poem by the late Shel Silverstein
              [Author of A Light in the Attic]
              I will not play at tug o’ war

              I’d rather play at hug o’ war,

              Where everyone hugs

              Instead of tugs

              Where everyone giggles

              And rolls on the rug,

              Where everyone kisses

              And everyone grins

              And everyone cuddles

              And everyone wins.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              SPF, you can smack if I need it, but can I suggest just backing off him for now. I have reasons.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Will do..

            • DeElizabethan

              Think I gotcha too!

            • FLUNK_101

              There you go again! This is not about being an “ex,” it’s about being able to carry on an intelligent conversation. And having the class to say your sorry when you’re wrong.
              All you have to is apologize, and it’s all good.
              Otherwise, please leave me alone! And anyone else, if and when you’re tempted to treat them with disrespect.
              You can say what you have to say, and so can anyone else. Can we knock it off with the ridicule and disrespect?
              Marc Headley said it takes a big person to admit they’re wrong.
              I’m waiting.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Order in dinner.. You’re gonna be waiting a while.. ( sorry, THDNE.. )

            • FLUNK_101

              At least you’re consistent …

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              No problem at this point, SPF. I am hoping that the Proprietor will consider this statement as sufficient reason to remove future postings by you know who.

              “Please punch yourself in the face so I don’t have to track you down and do it myself.”
              It is pretty disturbing that this would continue here. Very disturbing.

            • DeElizabethan

              We all know how busy Tony O is but once he’s aware of stuff, he can look up all FLUNK’s comments and see for himself. Hope he does that for today’s thread.
              Tony’s blog is getting more wide spread and it’s counter productive to have this drastic type writing for people.

            • FLUNK_101

              ” Please punch yourself in the face so I don’t have to track you down and do it myself ” is a GOOF. It ‘s a quote from Rebecca Martinson and her sorority girl email that went VIRAL … we talked about it here on the blog.

              http://gawker.com/5994974/the-most-deranged-sorority-girl-email-you-will-ever-read

              Peace, love and best wishes to all.

              Flunk

            • Isaac Clarke

              I didn’t know that, that’s interesting …. I can see why it would seem less offensive if you considered it to be an internet meme.

            • Sidney18511

              SPF……I think your trying to see something GOOD in Flunk that really doesn’t exist.
              Your giving him hugs, he’s giving back “slugs”. I think HE owes some apologies. You can’t save everyone”…maybe you ought to let this one go.

            • dbloch7986

              I disagree with Flunk frequently. I also disagree with empty threats and misplaced anger.

            • I’m an ex I have no problem with you.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Thanks, Valerie.. I feel very fortunate to have met and interacted with everyone I’ve met here..

            • Robert Eckert

              See Captain Howdy’s reply here: THAT is what it looks like when someone is actually angry with you, as opposed to attempting to discuss disagreements, or talking about something else altogether.

            • DeElizabethan

              You did say you were a natural clear? What is so unnatural about your attitude?

            • stateofcircle

              I don’t really have an opinion either way and I hate flame wars because I am very, very sensitive and tend to take things personally. Why am I even commenting, you ask? Well, because I remember reading a comment Flunk made about his time in. So, I found it. I’m not posting it to add fuel to the fire, I’m posting it for hopefully a little clarity and to eliminate some of the he said she said. Although I’m pretty late to the party:

              “I did some introductory courses that cost next to nothing. And I got some auditing in the HGC that I never paid for, because I was dating the examiner.
              But then, I paid full price when I attesting to clear, and that included a sec check, and that was enough for me. I was out.”

            • DeElizabethan

              Taking all the past comments into consideration, it is rather strange I’d say.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Christine and I did interact last night, but it ended up being a very friendly experience.. I hope she sticks around..

            • BuryTheNuts2

              You are nicer than me. I hope she stays at Marty’s!

            • Anonymookme

              I don’t think that the “woo-woo” is thick enough here to keep a Big Being like Christine interested.
              The woo-woo at Marty’s is off the charts.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Agree. And I don’t think enough people curtsied to her OTVIII status, either.

              Although: a few did lick those high heel OTVIII boots as I recall.

            • Anonymookme

              I was unable to curtsy. I was busy eye rolling and laughing.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              You just like to see people suffer! And kick dogs!

            • FLUNK_101

              It ended up that way because you pretended you did’t mean what you said, as you always do, and she took your word for it.
              That doesn’t mean she wasn’t initially very insulted. She called you out on what you said to this FORMER Scientologist, Sea Org member and OT VIII. You said she’d “make a great Scientologist” and that she made you feel like you “just got sec-checked.”
              Can’t you be honest, even for one second?

            • Robert Eckert

              You have no track record of understanding what she means by what she says. Stop deluding yourself into thinking you have telepathic powers. Your habit of reading hostility where it isn’t present is destroying you.

            • FLUNK_101

              Telepathic powers? Now you ‘re the one who’s deluding yourself, aren’t you!

            • Robert Eckert

              What I mean is that you are claiming a superior ability to know what she “means” by what she says, when what you tell us all she “means” bears no relations to what she says she meant, or to what any other reader of the words understands from them. Ask yourself how you get this cosmic certainty that you KNOW she “means” this terrible attack on you.

            • DeElizabethan

              Why are you attacking and arguing with people on this thread? NO ONE here is your enemy. Stick to the OP if you can or take a walk and come back.

            • aquaclara

              Oh, good! I appreciate all the different backgrounds and strong opinions held by everyone, but it can be tough to know when we’re crashing into sensitive spots. It is inevitable, I guess.
              You changed your av again! Fun.

            • Anonymookme

              SPF commented last night that Christine would make a good Scibot and that after the scolding Christine laid down at anyone who had disparaged her pal, Brian, SPF felt that she had been sec-checked.
              SPF wasn’t the only one who noticed that Christine had an air of superiority in her comment that was very Sciloon like.
              Christine seemed awfully proud of her totally meaningless in the real world Sciloon pedigrees and {accomplishments} in Sciloonland

            • Robert Eckert

              None of which had anything to do with Flunk whatsoever, but he took it as an excuse to go on a hateful tirade.

            • dbloch7986

              Flunk, I have no idea what is wrong with you, but you’re threatening a computer monitor. I have a feeling that your frustrations are misplaced just a tiny bit.

            • FLUNK_101

              Peace!

        • Zlogonje

          that is a bullshit!

    • Jgg2012

      Flunk, no one said there wasn’t coomon sense, it’s just that LRH’s common sense was not original.

    • Truthiwant

      There is a certain amount of common sense to Scientology Ethics but that is not the problem. The common sense part is unfortunately completely enveloped by Hubbard’s obsession.

      I’ll give you an example

      In Normal Operations, one is told to continue doing what one is doing and not to change anything. Well this is quite logical because if you are doing OK then it would be normal to just carry on like that. But this is no good for Hubbard, because your statistics have to go UP. Normal is no good. You have to, each week, have a statistic that is better than the week before, so you go for ‘Affluence’ and then fail and hence the Org send you in to ‘Danger’ and you live on beans and rice for the next week or two. The whole thing is obsessive and in the end it only looks workable on paper but in practice it is not possible.

    • dbloch7986

      I ate a cookie and felt good. It didn’t cost me $500,000.00… I think the cookie itself was like $.15, $3 for the box.

      I really think that’s the point.

      • FLUNK_101

        Good point, Derek. Scientology auditing is a total rip-off.

  • May_West

    Don’t know if someone already posted this, but 2 hours ago, on Facebook, Kirstie said:

    “It’s a NEW day!!! I get to make amends for the mistakes I’ve made & add to the good things I’ve created!! Busy day!! XXOO”

    • BuryTheNuts2

      That is what the thread is about…the possibility of her being in lower conditions.

    • I’m wondering if she’s back on cocaine.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        One does wonder!

    • Jgg2012

      ” I get to make amends” that’s right, Kirstie–you can leave Scientology and tell the world how bad it is. Marty and Tony would both be happy to meet you, and buy you a (lo cal) drink if you would like to meet them.

  • V4Vacation

    Fyi, Jefferson Hawkins posted a great comment on the previous thread from this morning, on the thought-stopping “tech” being used right now by the CoS in this fallout.

  • Truthiwant

    Here’s a typical Ethics programme that an individual would have to do if they were not in good standing with the ‘Church’

    • Observer

      Oh, that looks like a barrel of laughs.

      • Truthiwant

        When you do these programmes, you don’t become a better person, but instead you become more and more mind controlled by the Organization.
        In the end, that is what they want, a world full of people that abide to the rules of Hubbard.

    • 6 – Make a fat IAS donation

      7 – Make a fat Super Power donation

      8 – Make a fat Planetary Disemmination donation

      9 – Make a fat Library Campaign donation

      10 – Make a fat TWTH donation

      • Truthiwant

        That, actually would be the alternative route to get back in good standing with the ‘Church’!

        • Robert Eckert

          Kirstie had a crashing M/U, thought all she needed to do was become fat, several times.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Notice the color … new baby poop

  • aquaclara

    Lower conditions “hundreds of times” Horrific.

    • I am

      She was a very BAD GIRL! A hundred times bad.

  • Mark

    Twice as many “bad” conditions as “good” ones, notice (assuming ‘Normal Operations’ is favourable). Rather like the Circles of Hell in Dante.

  • V4Vacation

    Hmm… “Tom Cruise Shocks Acting Students with Surprise Graduation Speech, Advice”
    http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20717847,00.html

    • Observer

      Hopefully it wasn’t marriage advice.

    • Mark

      “…and offered advice on staying humble after that first big break.”

      Pah!

  • 0tessa

    Find out where you are …? We don’t have to! We’re already in the Bunker!

  • Mark

    Off-topic, but I think I might have found a solution to Krusty’s weight problems:

    • Robert Eckert

      They’re “sanitized” tapeworms. You wouldn’t want to catch any germs from your worms.

      • Mark

        No sylph myself, I’d prefer them like this:

    • cicely neville

      Mark, is this for real? Really? Where did you find it? Ladies used to take arsenic to make themselves pale, but i’ve never heard of this.

      How the heck do you sanitize a tapeworm?

      And now I’m going to be sick.

      Again.

      • Nevermore

        Rumour has it that this is how Maria Callas lost a ton of weight!

      • Mark

        Just typed ‘tapeworm diet’ into Google Images.

    • stateofcircle

      I hear cocaine works wonders for weight loss…

      I know, I know, that was horrible of me and I am mad at myself for saying it….but I couldn’t resist.

    • GlibWog

      OMG My Science Teacher in the 7th Grade showed me a real Fuckin Tapeworm.. ugh, ugh.. Never have forgotten that.. NEVER… And then a film of a guy eating and the Tape Worm Came out of his mouth..Swear to God..
      Quit..Quit you guys… Or I will report you..

  • sugarplumfairy

    You know one of the reasons I adore you, Mr. Proprietor? Because over the past few days, when you’ve had to select pics of kirstie to accompany your stories, you’ve chosen the most beautiful, flattering pics you could find.. I love that, unlike so many others, you temper your truth with kindness.. Not that she deserves it, but i appreciate that you don’t take an easy shot.. You’re a gentleman and a scholar, Tony Ortega..

    • N. Graham

      That can’t be an easy task.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        lol.

      • Captain Howdy

        Like trying to find a nice picture of a lamprey.

        • Mark

          Like Lamprea rellena?

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            That looks like leftovers from my high school prom. Damnation.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              That looks like something I may have created in the parking lot after my high school prom.

            • Captain Howdy

              Quit reading my mind.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              I Was thinking there weren’t any nice, clean plates involved.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              there was asphalt!

            • Mark

              What about a paving-slab? Heston Blumenthal’s “Lamprey on a bed of anchovies, waffle crumbs and tapioca, topped with crunchy spinal cord and puffs of lamprey blood foam, and garnishes with lamprey head and tail”:

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Sorry, mine hit the pavement….

            • Observer

              Urp!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              OOh, the crunchy spinal cord did get my attention.
              But then, you would be surprised at what I have put in my mouth during my lifetime!

            • Isaac Clarke

              Never eat brains or spinal cords. Trust me. It’s just not a good idea.

            • Robert Eckert
            • monkeyknickers

              MUMMY!

              coolest weird shit ever.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Well…I Was feeling a tad enturbulated, but this just Snapped Me Right Out of It!

            • Espiando

              And knowing Heston, it’s probably delicious, but you really don’t want to request details from your waiter at the Fat Duck or Dinner.

            • Mark

              Things Not To Say At ‘The Fat Duck’: “Any customers had ptomaine poisoning lately?”

            • Espiando

              As someone who develops food safety plans for a living, I try my hardest to not think about what Heston does. He’s the food safety equivalent to Hubtard.

            • Nevermore

              Looks/sounds like something a Klingon would appreciate! Not me tho – bleugh!

            • richelieu jr

              Gagh!

          • V4Vacation

            O_O

          • Observer

            Oooh, suddenly I don’t feel so good …

          • Jon Hendry

            Coming soon to an airport Cinnabon near you.

          • Spackle Motion

            A greasy pork sandwich in a dirty ashtray.

            I don’t know what that picture is but it looks really disgusting.

            • dbloch7986

              It sounds fucking delicious

              Once dried and smoked , the lamprey is filled with ham and boiled egg and baked resulting in a kind of very tasty cold cuts. It is usual to eat accompanied by potato salad.

            • Spackle Motion

              It looks like roast beef sushi with a deviled egg aioli sauce.

            • richelieu jr

              I like it all up until the potato salad Derek, old man. Now I loves me some potatoes, and I likes me some salad, bit do not like eggs and celery and SWEET ZOMBIE JEEBUS—- MAYONNAISE all over that… Berk! Who invented that hit and why are they free?

  • DeElizabethan

    Thanks Claire for giving us some info about the conditions and how Krusty fits in on this. I don’t say it often, but I really do enjoy reading your articles with Tony. <3

    • aquaclara

      As Claire starts off each section, it unfolds nicely, and all sounds so nice and logical. There’s a course. There’s a reason for the course. The course has a name – some a little wacky, but you keep an open mind. Then, BAM! And all the crap of the cult spews forth, with the most descriptive examples of the crap found within. Then it becomes clear why this is a criminal organization.

    • Captain Howdy

      Thanks Claire!

  • Racnad

    It appears to me that Leah Remini recently completed her Doubt formula, and decided to leave the Church. Have regular Bunker readers leave the Church as a result of a formal Doubt Condition ethics cycle which resulted in the decision to leave Scientology?

    • pronoia

      I’ve read some reports of exes who have done just that on Marty’s blog

    • danlocke

      Should a person do the Doubt formula and decide against the C of S there would be only a few conclusions that the senior person or Ethics Officer or MAA could come to. Either the person had misunderstood words in the conditions or formula, or there was an incorrect condition assigned. That would be what would be being assumed at the C of S end. And they would continue to work with (or “work on”) the person until there was compliance and a decision to rejoin.

      Should any person stick to their decision to leave the Church as a result of working with these formula, although it says in the formula that one would just “suffer up the conditions if one has chosen a new group”, the C of S viewpoint would not be that the person was coming up through the conditions, but was descending further: from “Doubt” to the next lower, “Enemy”. In other words, in the Church of Scientology world, for an ex, there are no shades of grey. “You’re either with us or agin’ us.” Not really so much so in the Independent Scientology world, although there are factions that think similarly.

      Any and all persons who were once in and have since left the C of S are considered enemies of the Church, unless they recant, tell one and all they were totally mistaken, do the Doubt formula again and come to the conclusion they want to be members of the Church, and then pay off any debts to the Church as they work through their liability formulas. I used to see this happen from time to time. I don’t think I will see this much ever again. People who leave the C of S these days don’t ever want to go back.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        Dan, totally off topic question. did you say you live in Equador?
        If so, Mountains or coast? And how do you like it?

        • danlocke

          I like it a lot. I am in Guayaquil which is off of a wide river, some miles inland. I go to the coast often. Guayaquil is too hot and humid, December through March/April and then less so in the other months. The last month or so I think it has averaged in the low 80’s as high and about 65% humidity. The later afternoons and mornings are in the 70’s with a bit lower humidity. But, in December through March, high 90’s in temperature and humidity are not uncommon in Guayaquil The coast is nearly always humid but generally cooler, but there are the ocean breezes there that are fine. The Andes are here, and you find lower temperatures as you go higher. That’s where most gringos go, to the highlands.

          I have friends and family here. I like them a lot. I came here without knowing Spanish but am picking it up and just started formal school for it today. I am glad that I am here and look forward to traveling more in South America in the next couple years and then the rest of the world.

          That’s what I was promised when I joined the SO! To “see the world via the Apollo!” No such luck. I was fortunate, though, to have been a tours reg for some time and that did get me all over the US and Canada… but all I saw of it was the airports, the orgs, and the public people’s couches that I slept on! I was actually on my way to South America 40 years ago when I was recruited to the SO! I guess I “Q and A’d”!

          • BuryTheNuts2

            Thanks Dan.

            • danlocke

              By the way, your question was not totally off the point. There are religious cults here, too! Pretty mild in comparison to Scn though. Here they were kind enough to cut your head off before they shrank it.

            • q-bird

              egad! The things we humans do to each other!

            • dbloch7986

              There’s a lot of Santeria in the isthmus right?

          • DeElizabethan

            Hey Dan, what a neat story and sound like an interesting place to live. Meant to be eh! Nice you made/are making it.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        “there would be only a few conclusions that the senior person or Ethics Officer or MAA could come to.” Well, yes, but you left out the relevant part to the Leah/Kirstie saga and this thread….what about the conclusions the friends and associates come to?

        This evil is not perpetuated on the back of one leader or a couple of execs and officers. It is perpetuated with the support and approval of the members and staff along with the wannabe celeb circle clubs. Without it, it would crumble.

        • danlocke

          Of course, you are right. There’s a mindlessness about it, certainly. All the talk about being totally free and being liberated as an individual, but then, organisationally, an insistence upon conformity and obedience.

    • DeElizabethan

      No, doubt is always there to some degree, but when you hit bottom and see yourself in treason to yourself for staying there, you run.

  • BosonStark

    I don’t think formulas should be given to clams at all. For example, Karin Pouw would snap her tiny brain if she had to convert 1/3 to a percentage.

    • Espiando

      I’ve known for a while that they can’t do basic math. We Anons told them five years ago to go Divide By Zero, and they haven’t done it yet.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        hah!

  • pronoia

    The Daily Mail has the story about the Australian Rugby player Joe Reaiche and his worry about his daughter Alanna and Connor Cruise at the top of their website: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2366218/EXCLUSIVE-Connor-Cruise-worst-person-daughter-Exiled-Scientologist-father-Tom-Cruises-son-close-friend-hits-out.html

    • media_lush

      Amazing…. they’re calling it an “Exclusive” when Tony posted about it a week or so ago… I mentioned this in their comments but it’s not showing up yet…. others might feel to put them right, too perhaps

      • Robert Eckert

        They have more material than Tony’s piece did, and do give a shout-out to Tony in a place where they re-use a quote he got.

      • Nevermore

        The Fail is a misogynist rag – and they probably won’t print your comments!

  • Mary_McConnell

    Thanks, Claire and Tony!

  • 10oriocookies

    Kirstie Allie is in a condition of “Suck”. Her true colors are shining brightly and they are the ugliest of ugly colors.

  • nottrue

    youll be missed BTN

    • SandiCorrena

      where is BTN?

      • Isaac Clarke

        She is now posting as Guest

        • SP ‘Onage

          Wat?

          • Robert Eckert

            Blowup between her and Prefer2BeAnon over at the Rodeo, I don’t even know how it started but both have rage-quit. CaptHowdy is seeking to mediate.

            • sugarplumfairy

              I love ’em both.. Hope Howdy works his magic..

            • Espiando

              And if the solution involves some Jagerbombs, a lack of breasticle cover, a wading pool full of chocolate pudding, and some pre-Rollins Black Flag, that would be ideal. Too bad we couldn’t christen the Oiliness Table in a proper fashion…

            • sugarplumfairy

              Now, see? You Anons have your own language that non-Anons don’t understand.. I think that makes you a cult..

            • Espiando

              No, some of us are just dirty old men who have no problem watching topless drunk women wrestling in desserts to a soundtrack of classic punk. The rest of us just want the n00dz to get posted to the thread afterward.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Oh, ok.. Thx for translating for me..

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              I understood dirty old men then pfffft. how about you?

            • sugarplumfairy

              Lol.. I’m trying not to think about it..he lost me at chocolate pudding..

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              and I am going to ignore Howdy’s post now, not because I didn’t understand, but because I Do. It’s the wimmen that have to scrape the dried pudding off the walls when it’s over. the men leave to go skin some bears, or so they say.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Ewww.. Scraping dried pudding off the walls.. You know if Bury were here, she’d have a few choice words about other things that would need scraping..

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              I’ve heard a lot of euphemisms for the dirty deed in my time, but never “skin the bear”. Flog the dolphin yes, but bears no. Derek?

            • dbloch7986

              It sounds like a ritualistic circumcision of a hairy, stocky man wearing a leather harness

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              I knew I could count on you! 😉

            • dbloch7986

              Never underestimate the power of imagination coupled with years of sexual repression

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Sounds like you ought to go to film school.

            • Spackle Motion

              I just happened to come across this comment…..wow. Sounds like you’ve been introduced to the Bear crowd, no?

            • dbloch7986

              Until i read the entire conversation, all I read was women scraping dried “pudding” and the men leaving them to their devices. It sounded like a Greek orgy,.

            • Captain Howdy

              We like watching chicks wrestle nude in whip cream to a soundtrack of classic punk and we like to look at the nude photos afterwards.

              See if this was a Terminator anon vs scilon future scenario and you failed the test at the door you would have gotten blasted.

            • Captain Howdy

              I got magic? Wow, all this time I thought I just had a good line of bullshit. thanks SPF.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Yah, you do..

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              but it’s Magical Bullshit!

            • SP ‘Onage

              Oh no! They are two of my favorites. Hope they work things out. Thanks for the heads up on that.

            • Isaac Clarke

              Doesn’t what happens at the Rodeo stay at the Rodeo? Why would that spill over in to the Bunker?

            • Robert Eckert

              I have no idea why anything that happened should spill over to here. It never has before, and it develops that many long-time Bunkerites were not even aware the Rodeo existed.

            • Isaac Clarke

              Exactly! They are two very distinct and unique places! One is private, and the other is primarily driven by Big Pharma subsidized posters! Like myself!

            • Robert Eckert

              As far as I can decipher it: actually it was the Bunker spilling over to the Rodeo. Alice/Chaz took offense to some things said on the Brian Culkin thread, but rather than announce she was quitting here, she told off some people over there, and it was BTN’s turn to take offense, so then she announced that here, where of course we had no clue what was going on.

            • Isaac Clarke

              My Big Pharma check was late this week… did you get yours yet?

            • Robert Eckert

              On Huffington Post, I keep getting told that the Zionists are paying me, but their check is late too.

            • AnyOldName1

              I didn’t even know the Rodeo was still going…. Sounds like it’s a 3-ringer with raging bulls.
              It was our “fix” between when TO left the VV and started the Bunker.

            • DeElizabethan

              I remember that “fix”but also wasn’t sure if still going. For my old computer and simple brain it was not easy to navigate like Tony’s or other blogs.

            • Spackle Motion

              It’s getting better, navigation-wise, due to Google upgrades but it is still not as easy as Disqus. We’re still up and running although it is pretty quiet.

            • DeElizabethan

              Hi Deck, I remember when…
              Glad to know you are still going. Between this old slow computer and a few blogs I look at, hardly have time since Tony is everyday +. Then all the links etc just consume all my time. Now I remember your name change and nice to see you and know it’s you. Plus my brains been fuzzy lately and that’s what happens when you ripen., heh!

            • Spackle Motion

              Hi DeE! Yes it is still ole me, DeckardCain of past beautific blunderness blathering (I just had to use ‘ness’ in a sentence). I agree that Tony’s incredible work takes up a good portion of my now rare free time and trying to catch up with the Rodeo is a bit much.

              As of right now, I still have 144 unread posts from the Rodeo but I try to catch up albeit at a snail’s pace. You are welcome there anytime as is anyone here. I had my unfortunate spat with the Bunker awhile back so I deleted my Disqus account in a moment of immaturity. Eating crow, I ran a little contest on the Rodeo for a new name and got one that I couldn’t stop laughing at….Spackle. I still chuckle when I think of that word. So here I am!

              Please stop on by! It would be nice to see you there.

            • DeElizabethan

              Thanks Spackle, like sparkle.
              When I ever get a new and faster comp and time surely will visit. Meanwhile love to see your here-ness.

            • Ruby

              that be me.

            • sugarplumfairy

              No.. It’s free and anyone can join..

            • pronoia

              Sounds like the Thunderdome.

            • Spackle Motion

              No, dear, it is not the Dome. No Selleck in the Rodeo and we aren’t /b/.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Gibson?

            • Spackle Motion

              Only if he shouts “Sugar Tits” upon entry.

            • Ruby

              ummm…the Rodeo?

            • sugarplumfairy

              Ruby, the Rodeo was started as an interim home for Tony’s Villge Voice commenters when Tony left the VV, before he started the underground bunker.. I was there until Tony got this site up and running, but there wasn’t enough hours in the day for me to keep visiting over there.. But lots of the commenters here still go there..

            • Ruby

              Thanks Sugarplum. 🙂

            • Isaac Clarke

              The Rodeo is a good place to relax after Big Pharma pay day: low key, cheap brews, and a good juke box

            • Spackle Motion

              OK….maybe I’m completely clueless here, but I am the moderator of the Rodeo and I didn’t see any blow up. I did give our peeps the option to delete posts but I didn’t see anything.

              Ugh. Maybe I’m two days late and ten dollars short. I suppose it’s best that I do not know.

            • Robert Eckert

              Elsewhere I have posted that what it looks like to me, reading more carefully, is that the upset started about remarks at the Bunker during the Brian Culkin thread, and PTBA just preferred to vent about it at the Rodeo rather than announce a departure here.

            • Spackle Motion

              I must have missed that party because I don’t see those posts at the Rodeo.

              BTN2, if you feel like venting you can email me at deckardcain.stayandlisten@gmail.com. You are one of my favs here and I would hate to lose you.

    • SP ‘Onage

      Please don’t tell me something happen to her?

      • nottrue

        SHES FINE taking a break from here

        • SP ‘Onage

          Understandable. It has been pretty intense lately.

    • Captain Howdy

      She will be back. And like Derek said everybody needs to RELAX and get back to SUBJECT at hand.

      • dbloch7986

        Internet arguments are futile. It’s like screaming at an ashtray.

        • Robert Eckert

          Best comment of the day.

        • Espiando

          And Krusty managed to do both. {What a paragon she is}.

        • sugarplumfairy

          Lol..

    • nottrue

      she sure could make me laugh

  • monkeyknickers

    CLAIRE: “I did lower conditions for the first time when I was seven, in the
    cadet org. For the last five years I was at the Int Base, I and every
    other staff member (except David Miscavige and his personal staff) were
    all in lower conditions.

    When you’re in lower conditions at the base, you get certain
    punishments. For example, I lost my “dining privileges.” I was expected
    to eat any meals outside, next to the garbage dump.

    The garbage dump reeked of trash and rotten food. It wasn’t good for the appetite.”

    FUCK THIS FUCKING TINY DICKLESS ASSHOLE.

    I swear to god if its my sister eating out by the garbage can right now, I will bitch slap that tiny fuck up myself**

    Oh Claire . . . . I am so sorry. I am so sorry that happened to you. If you were here I would hug in a way that would initially make you feel awkward but would later be cool. Ferreals.

    ** You can see now why most of my family are unfortunately incarcerated. We lack impulse control. The funny thing is that you think I’m exaggerating.

  • dbloch7986

    Relax folks, you are on the internets. Everyone pop a xanax, watch a funny you tube video or eat a tub of ice cream; whatever floats your boat. Chill out maaaan. Things are getting just a bit overheated in here.

    • Espiando

      Fuck the cabana. I’m starting to feel the pleasant buzz of a Zyprexa. Oh, psychoactives, take me away…

  • SandiCorrena

    Whoever is the last one out tonight please leave the light on; I don’t want BTN coming home in the dark.

  • TonyOrtega

    Here I am, hip-deep in several hot new scoops for coming days, and I just don’t have the time to deal with this. Bury, get yer ass back in here. Flunk, chill the fuck out. I have never banned a commenter and I don’t want to start. Police yourselves, people. You’re good at it. Now back to tomorrow morning’s hot scoop. Jeez, I need a nap.

    • Missionary Kid

      Aye, aye, sir. 😉

    • EnthralledObserver

      lol… Sorry, Tony… Mamma needed Pappa’s back-up… but, yes… carry on now. :p

    • Isaac Clarke

      You heard it BTN!! Straight from The Proprietor!!

    • Ms. B. Haven

      OTVIIIisgrrr8 report for duty and bring the wrath of the RTC to bear upon the Bunker!!! Tony needs your help to whip our Q&A-ing arses into shape so we stay on topic. There is just way too much good news out there in criticsland to get distracted with in-fighting. Stay strong Bunkerites! Much love to all of you no matter how mean and nasty you (we) can get.

      • Espiando

        Actually, the news is coming so fast and furious that we have to do something to increase the difficulty level. Scoring an Epic Win during a schismatic internal piss-fight gains you the achievement of Divide, Then Conquer. We Anons got that achievement with Operation Sea Aaargh.

      • DeElizabethan

        Yes, we can handle it and it’s nice with the proprietor’s blessing. He has important work to do. Right on Ms B Haven!

    • Captain Howdy

      Fuckin A.

      • Robert Eckert

        Since you already volunteered for the mission, retrieve PTBA too, mmkay?

        • Captain Howdy

          CO’s don’t volunteer, they command. And I hereby order THDNE and De to get on this and report back to me ASAP.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            kumbaya, my cap’n. kumbaya. ASAP at my age means As Soon As I Please, or as fast as I can shuffle. stay tuned to that gittar.

            • Captain Howdy

              Thanks your Holiness.

          • aquaclara

            Please bribe with cake, hugs and flowers, okay? We need PTBA!!!

          • DeElizabethan

            I’m about two hours behind. Sorry I’m late. Report: All is well!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Oh crap! We woke up dad.

      Quick, everybody…run to the bathroom and start singin’

      http://youtu.be/rNW5pt7Ufrc

    • Isaac Clarke

      This post is awesome is so many ways.

    • monkeyknickers

      Amongst the 900 trillion comments I can’t find this incendiary Flunk one.

      And if I did I’m strongly suspecting I wouldn’t get it and would need to get learned by several smarter blog peeps. Whassgoingon?

      Incidentally, Tony Ortega, stop posting awesome shit for a second. Okay? I have other stuff I’m sposed to be doing. You are causing my mother to yell at me. Just saying. KNOW YOUR INFLUENCE.

      Love

      me

      • Sherbet

        I’m with you, ‘knickers. I see Flunk being Flunk, and a spat at the Rodeo, but nothing much out of the ordinary, for the Bunker, that is. I can’t tell who pushed the button.

      • sugarplumfairy

        I’m with sherbet.. I say we drop it and keep our eye on the prize.. But in future, if you’re ever looking for a comment from a specific commenter, just click on his/her name on any of their comments.. It will link you to all comments from that commenter..

        • Sherbet

          Which is hard to do in this case, since some of the cast of characters has disappeared for the moment. Anyway, I keep telling myself it isn’t important who poked whom.

        • monkeyknickers

          Okay sweetheart. Of course – look to happy not to sad. 🙂

          I just am a total flurry of not-understandingness.

          Not much of a change in my average Tuesday night but what can you do.

          Shrug.

          And then kisses. 🙂

      • Captain Howdy

        Yes can we please stop with the speculation. This is an issue between two long term members and will hopefully be resolved internally. Am I sounding like Steve Hall yet?

        Srsly. Let it rest for the moment. And the thing with Flunk is a completely separate issue.

        • Sherbet

          The voice of reason. Bravo, Howdy.

          • Captain Howdy

            Goodnight Sherb and everybody else.

            • Sherbet

              Goodnight to you, too. I’ll be right behind you, figuratively speaking.

            • SP ‘Onage

              Have a good one, Capt.

        • q_bird

          yep. leave it be. Let’s dance, shall we?!

          http://youtu.be/ab9i0s4WEY0

        • SP ‘Onage

          Maybe we should call a special meeting at Melinda Brownstone’s house and figure out where we go from here. 🙂

          • Observer

            Oh dear Xenu, now Mr. Brownstone is in my head again!

        • monkeyknickers

          Okay. I just didn’t understand why the conflict

          ??

          I also don’t understand algebra. So there you go.

          • richelieu jr

            Why does this tuff always go don hen I’m asleep? I hardly ever sleep!

            Oh, yeah, the world is round and all that… D’oh!

    • DeElizabethan

      Thank you Sir Tony O! <3

    • SP ‘Onage

      Fo shizzel. C’mon Bury, I’m dying here, I need some comic relief. *sending distress signal*

  • richelieu jr

    Say ‘Hebbo’, everybody!

    http://youtu.be/S-t7MV-Z6Pc

    • Spackle Motion

      I say Hebbo every morning, noon, and night. And after I visit the toilet.

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Ooooh, I wanna be a priestmunty too!

  • SandiCorrena
  • media_lush

    Dammit, I hate it when I miss a good old firey argument.

    Back in the day I was an admin of one of facebook’s biggest mac groups [over 59k members] and we used to get PC troll noobs who thought they were cleverer than us and tried all kinds of troll wars… I used to love having arguments there as, well, I pretty much won them all. Having the ability to remove their posts would drive them insane. One of my funniest memories [and one that I got banned from posting in facebook for a week or so] was against a particularly nasty specimen that resulted in me ending being subscribed to all kinds of gay porn and similar “anonymously”…. however, having a bit of isp knowhow I managed to track down the EXACT name and address of the perp…. even his college room number…. after doing some, er, further ‘investigating’ I managed to download loads of his pics at parties being drunk etc… To cut a long story short I sent emails to the whole college faculty with a few choice screengrabs of the kind of stuff he was sending me, amused myself with a few photoshops and sent them to a bunch of his facebook friends [mainly the girls], also explaining what a dumbass he was with the gay porn and included an extract from an academic that people who did this were probably closet homosexuals [not that there’s anything wrong with that]. Facebook was a lot more fun back then.

    • Ruby

      Whoa! What a great radio interview!! And you gotta know that what she is saying is the casual truth that she received and here she is now being able to pass it on. VERY informative.

    • sugarplumfairy

      Wow! I lovvvve Leah’s sister.. Great interview, Media.. Leah got uninvited from her best friend’s wedding after she helped pay for the honeymoon..

  • Sherbet

    What what what? I seem to have missed a real donnybrook, and I don’t know who threw the first punch or who deserved it. And I don’t care. What matters is that everyone calm down and keep your eyes on the prize: cos falling down in pieces around DM’s head. The bad guys are out there, not in here. C’mon.

    • SP ‘Onage

      Yea, we have to beware of Divide and Conquer, OSA would love that.

      • Andrew Robertson

        OSA would find it hard to understand, as Scientologists are trained not to ‘natter’ or disagree with each other unless it’s a staff member screaming at a subordinate.

        However in the real world people argue with each other all the time.

        On the Usenet newsgroup, alt.religion.scientology, the critics would turn on each other at the drop of a hat and the mauling was ferocious.

        But as this behavior was the antithesis of Scientology group-think it always seemed perfectly normal and healthy to me.

        And the situation was fluid and yesterday’s enemies could become today’s friends. Unlike Scientology, where yesterday’s friends are cast into eternal darkness at the drop of a declare.

        Andrew

        • Sherbet

          It’s easy to be misunderstood in a blog, because there aren’t any voice inflections or facial expressions to accompany our words. I know I’ve been made uncomfortable a few times by the way a poster is framing his/her words, and they “sound” offensive. When personalities get in the way of opinions, it can be dangerous.

          • stateofcircle

            …thank God for those vagina brackets

        • SP ‘Onage

          Thank you, I appreciate your perspective on this.

    • AnyOldName1

      Hear! Hear! We are supposed to be doing that to CO$ not ourselves!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Flunk threatened to find and hunt down, then do bodily harm to Cap’n Howdy. Bury was hurt by verbal stuff at the Rodeo and came here and today’s cray cray tipped her over to saying no more posting.

      • Sherbet

        OK, thanks for the recap, Hole-y. My money’s on Howdy to take care of himself. And Bury, take 5. Take 10. But forgive and forget whatever it was, whomever it was, and come back. We have tacos. And lobster rolls.

        And other person involved — you, too, kiss and make up. There isn’t any voice here in the Bunker that isn’t valuable.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          all true, but threats are something else entirely.

          • Sherbet

            Definitely. I hope it’s all handled wisely by Howdy, Flunk, and Tony.

      • pronoia

        Oh dear. Flunk, you didn’t. I am disappointed to read this.

    • DeElizabethan

      Love your cool sherbet input. Truth!

  • Andrew Robertson

    An interesting article has just appeared on BBC News Online:

    ‘How Scientology changed the Internet’ by Dave Lee.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23273109

    Martin Poulter, a long-time critic of Scientology is quoted extensively and Karin Pouw makes a cameo appearance!

    Andrew

    • sugarplumfairy

      Great article!!

      • q-bird

        yes. last lines =

        “Founder L. Ron Hubbard told them how to do everything in life,” reflects Dr Poulter from Wikipedia.

        “But he didn’t leave any instructions on how to handle the internet.”

        • SandiCorrena

          LOVE that part!!

        • pronoia

          That was funny, Because he was basically quoting a the point Anonymous originally made in 2008!

    • media_lush

      …. heh, heh…. it looks like blue chip media is putting “proper” journalists on to the case now. the first thing I thought is that it looks like a piece from Tony as it’s properly researched with genuine comments.

      yep, I think we’ll look back now and pinpoint the Leah story as the final straw that broke the cult’s back…. and look who broke that!

      • sugarplumfairy

        I thought the same thing about the article as I read it.. Halfway through, I stopped to check the byline..

      • Sherbet

        It sounds a little snotty when one of the on-line stories says, “Ortega claims…” instead of “Ortega reports…”

        • stateofcircle

          it should be “I Don’t know how to do actual research like a real reporter, So I just plagiarize from real reporters like Tony Ortega. Besides, I work for respectable news outlets such as HuffPo and The Daily Mail and they don’t care about silly things like actual journalism.”

        • Isaac Clarke

          BBC considers themselves to be the most objective reporters, and will often go out of their way to put quotes around things we wouldn’t consider controversial:

          Newspaper boy “throws” newspaper through “glass” window

      • GlibWog

        OMG Say it will be sooo.. If there is a God in Heaven..say it is soooooooooo

    • media_lush

      incidentally, anyone put a name to these faces [from the article]?

      • Spackle Motion

        Paris Hilton and Wife Candidate #10923.

      • sugarplumfairy

        Brunette kinda looks like Ana Ortiz

        • Andrew Robertson

          …displaying her perfectly formed and discretely proportioned incisors.

          Andrew

      • SP ‘Onage

        No, but that blond is staring at Laser Tom’s tooth.

      • dbloch7986

        Damn that brunette looks super familiar. I think she is either a high level Scientologist or Sea Org member. I swear I have seen her before. The blonde certainly does look like Paris Hilton. Could it be?

        • SandiCorrena

          imho I don’t think Paris would wear that print and I think she looks older than Paris, could it be Kathy Hilton?

        • Spackle Motion

          She does look familiar to me too. The brunette looks like some weather bimbo from a LA local news channel.

          (I’m on a roll here tonight….I can’t help myself)

    • aquaclara

      Thank you, Andrew. This is a very well done article, nicely pointing out (with a straight face) the ways the cult of Scientology failed to scare off the Internet completely. I also like the xenu.net references, and of course, the pictures. These include one of Anonymous and of a raid poster, plus a TC reference….win,win,win.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Funny yet Tasty. Google pawns SEO “Experts” all the time. Scientology management is still dealing in CD’s and 5-color Glossy Snail Mail to millions who toss it in the dump, and scrambling to slap on block filters instead of apps. Scientologists make Luddites look progressive.

      • pronoia

        Heh.

    • Robert Eckert

      Not as interested as we are in getting all the intricate details of the ideology: “He[LRH] said human beings contained the souls of Thetans – immortal creatures responsible for making the universe.

      However, the world has been invaded by dark forces – the Engrams – and individuals can be cleansed and enlightened only through intense therapy called Dianetics.”

      • Andrew Robertson

        I like the theological inexactitude of ‘Dark Engrams’ with the implication of ray guns and sullen scowling alien faces.

        Okay, so our body thetans are just the souls of murdered space aliens who thought they could get away with forgetting to declare all their taxable income without realizing the investigative powers of the Marcabian Internal Revenue Service.

        I wouldn’t be surprised if the American IRS wished they had a fleet of intergalactic DC-8’s too.

        It’s a pity the BBC hasn’t allowed a comments section on the article.

        Andrew

        • Robert Eckert

          Any other day, maybe– today, ummm, just as well we are muzzled.

    • GlibWog

      Andrew.. Thanks for sharing. I would have loved to have been at the meeting when Sciloons attempted to change google ranks.. Priceless.. ( And to see the Face the Wogs around the table..) bawwwhaha

      • Missionary Kid

        Here’s more on the meeting from Geir Isene, who Scientology (Karin Pouw) tries to poo-poo. The Bunker covered this two weeks ago.

        http://tonyortega.org/2013/07/02/claire-headley-on-scientologys-feats-of-clay/

        • GlibWog

          Thanks Kid.. I appreciate it.. You are very nice to a Newbie!

          • Missionary Kid

            I haven’t been here all that long myself, but if you hang around, you’ll find that Tony has stuff on the {church} of $cientology way before everyone else. If you go back over the archives here, you’ll find a LOT of information. Welcome to the rabbit hole. You’ll end up with a whole new world.

            If you’re a wog, like me, here are just a few of the resources available to help you out.
            The grandaddy of online resources: Operation Clambake (AKA http://www.xenu.net ), which also has the Operation Clambake Message Board.

            Dictionaries:
            http://www.xenu.net/archive/dictionary/
            http://www.tampabay.com/news/scientology/article1048137.ece

            Books:
            A Piece of Blue Sky
            Barefaced Messiah
            Going Clear

            NarCONon
            http://www.haveyoutoldall.com/
            http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Stop-Narconon/

            If you order a book, go through this website or the one hosted by the author. That way, they get a cut from Amazon.

            • GlibWog

              Missionary.. Thank you so much for taking the time to do that for me.. I want you to know that I have been Obsessed with Scientology BS for Years and Years. I have read everything you posted..

              I am one of the Evil Psychs.. ha.. Followed Tony closely on VV.. and now over her from the Get Go.. I just thought I would finally put my voice to the mix.

              You put such a great collection together…I will pass it on to all on my E mail. and perfect for noobs here. I am definitely a Noob here.. but in the Anti Scientology World.. I am well versed… xoxox thanks Glib..

            • Missionary Kid

              You’re very welcome.

              On the books, many are available online, but I want to encourage people to buy the latest edition from the author, if available, so I didn’t post where they could be found online. Possibly the easiest read is Wright’s Going Clear. I haven’t read it yet, but Jenna’s book is probably another one that will deeply affect the reader.

              Atack’s Blue Sky has a new edition, so I want to encourage people to buy it instead of the older, online version.

              As you may know, I had a brush with Dianetics in the late 50s when my oldest sister was involved. She flipped and went the other way, to ultra-fundamentalist Christianity. At least there’s no disconnection policy there.

              Some years ago, I read Bare Faced Messiah, and I mentioned it to my neighbor. He’d run into Hubbard when he was in Phoenix, giving a lecture. He went to the lecture because he was a budding science fiction writer, and he was intrigued to see someone who’d actually been published. My neighbor said that he’d never seen such an evil, manipulative man in his whole life, and he was in his 70s when he said it.

              According to him, the Hub said in the lecture that if people followed him, they’d become very wealthy, along with him. Of course, by changing the rules after $cientology was making money, he cut most of those followers out of the money.

            • GlibWog

              Wright’s book? Couldn’t put it down. You are right Kid it is an easy read. Between The Bunker, VV ( with Tony) and every book I’ve read over the years..YouTube my days are filled up with Anti Scientology info.

              I’m retired .. so I am good to go.. with my Obsession. Thank God your Sister saw the Light to leave! Well.. as you say at least there is no disconnection at least.

              Interesting and creepy about your neighbor, huh.. ugh.. I would scratch my eyeballs out before I would listen to Hubs..ugh..

            • Missionary Kid

              I don’t know if my sister bailed out of guilt, which was a part of my upbringing, or the fact that it was so costly, or that she started to feel it was “ungodly.” Some time I will ask her.

              She’s 75 now, and has the missionary neurosis – she takes care of others before she takes care of herself.

              My neighbor’s experience was his inoculation.

            • Missionary Kid

              I’d like your opinion on something I wrote today as a reply to John P., but his comment was originally posted two days ago at http://tonyortega.org/2013/07/15/scientologys-drug-rehab-fights-class-action-lawsuit-with-move-to-federal-court/

              If you load that page, and go nearly all the way to the bottom, (It’s easier to load all the comments and come up from the bottom) the thread starts with J Swift “One person Jeff Harris should subpoena is Tom Cruise…” There’s some back and forth, but what I’m interested in is what your take is on my posting about the psychological make-up of the Dinky Madman and the effects it’s had on Co$ in reply to John P.

              My last post on that thread is a P.S. to myself, “If $cientology was traded on the market, I’d sell short.”

              The last post on that thread is from Douglas D. Douglas.

          • aquaclara

            And back in the Village Voice Running Scared archives, you’ll see a treasure trove of Tony’s work, which is a wonderful rabbit hole of Scientology. You will find much here – it’s well worth reading. Here’s a digest of the best that Tony put together last year at this time.
            (Both back then and now, his articles will contain links back to pertinent stories to help keep us filled in.).

            http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2012/07/scientology_katie_holmes_tom_cruise_village_voice_archive.php

    • DeElizabethan

      What a strong, clear, precise article this is. tks

    • Casabeca

      Thanks Andrew. I appreciate your courtesy and way with words.

  • Sherbet

    Goodnight, all.

    • SP ‘Onage

      🙂 sleep well.

  • Spackle Motion

    Tony, I’m thinking of adding an automatic Google Alert search on “Tony Ortega” along with the other Scientology-related searches that I have because I keep seeing your name in the overwhelming number of Alert emails that I’ve received in the last week.

    I’m not too comfortable with some stories that give your credentials in one sentence. You’ve accomplished much more than is credited in these stories. But, I’ll take it for now.

    Well done!

  • Curious

    This is off-topic and likely posted elsewhere on your website, but it looks like Tommy and Jessica did deflect, as their “whois” domains were both registered to CSI in 2011.

    Also, interesting to note, “whois” domains were registered, privately, for Tom Cruise, John Travolta, & Kirstie Alley on July 13, 2013, the same day the “whois” domain for Leah Remini was registered. They were all registered and hosted with Go Daddy, not as if that’s unique, but it is worth mentioning.

    • SandiCorrena

      curiouser and curiouser!

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Could be an enterprising individual bought them as an “investment” sell to the {church} of Scientology at a hopeful later date.

      • dbloch7986

        Hehe, i love the TR 1 reference…. what an irritating TR

    • dbloch7986

      Sounds like they are preparing for a fallout. Interesting…

      Maybe they are planning on doing the website on Leah and betting that once they do, all the other celebs will buy up theirs before the church does.

      • SP ‘Onage

        They’re buying them up before AGP does. 😀

  • SandiCorrena

    I tweeted into one of her tweeters who said to lay off her for her religion. I said I think the missing church execs and forced abortion in the Sea Org puts folks off. She’s rating everyone as “Class” “@$$” and some other ugly thing so maybe I’ll score….

  • dbloch7986

    Tony, get some sleep!

  • DodoTheLaser

    Ok. I don’t even…

    [IMG]http://i41.tinypic.com/vpeq2d.png[/IMG]

    And this:

    [IMG]http://i39.tinypic.com/30cuhl0.png[/IMG]

    Stay uber classy, Kirstie.
    https://twitter.com/kirstiealley

    • DeElizabethan

      Whoa, the foul mouth. tks for putting it out here.

      • DodoTheLaser

        Yeah, not sure what she is thinking. Way over the top.
        Looks like a meltdown of sorts. Or a terribly wrong PR strategy.
        Or both.

  • Simple Thetan

    It is quite obvious that KA was not meek enough in demanding an explanation on Leah R. Immediately the MAA put her in her place by assigning her a condition. Of course, I in her place, would have asked the idiot if he would like me to also start talking. KA, being the mind slave that she is, after enduring thousands of hours of brain washing, just collapsed and capitulated. That was the end of the little independence shown by a once feisty lady.

    • DodoTheLaser

      Good points, ST!
      Now I’m really not sure who damages scientology’s PR more – Leah or Kirstie though…

      • DeElizabethan

        The Lady or the Tramp? Personally would like to see the tramp keep trampin’

        • DodoTheLaser

          As you wish:

          [IMG]http://i39.tinypic.com/9glz40.png[/IMG]

          Also her original tweet about cock, ass or,, class seem to disappear,
          but some following comments are still there. Probably not for long.

          • Sunny Sands

            Kirstie is having a meltdown in full view of the public. I know it’s a long shot, but I’m hoping she hits rock bottom and finally sees the light.

          • Observer

            Wow.

          • Nevermore

            She really comes across like a booze and/or drugs raddled old bag there! Such a fine advert for $cientology!

          • Ruby

            This is how she think she will gain popularity? Kirstie is pretending to be tough and using words like this to “Prove it”. Leah is demonstrating genuine, personal strength without the need of obscenities…or saying anything at all for that matter!

          • DeElizabethan

            Tks Bro. Good finds and putting here. Many don’t have access. I don’t, so yippee!

  • Nevermore

    Leah retweeted this last night: ‘Don’t pray 2 b sheltered from danger but 2 b fearless in facing it. Don’t beg 4 the stilling of pain but 4 the heart 2 conquer it. – Tagore’ Makes me think she’s not going to be sucked back into the asylum!

  • DodoTheLaser

    Kirstie “Classy” Alley, consider this:

    [IMG]http://i44.tinypic.com/a1hikh.jpg[/IMG]

  • Nevermore
  • Nevermore

    Possibly Krustie’s last Tweets on the subject:

    Kirstie Alley ‏@kirstiealley4h

    Don’t care much about my own reputation .I DO that people who R genuinely interested could know the truth..others won’t believe it anyway

    Kirstie Alley ‏@kirstiealley2h

    U all helped me tonight. I was worried & feeling very bad because a lie is being perpetuated. Your advice to “ignore” is the path I chose

  • Layla

    I tweeted KA a few times. They weren’t profane; simply calling her out for being a mean girl. Anyway, I got blocked after the tweets. The truth hurts and is very hard for people with blinders to see.