SUPPORT THE UNDERGROUND BUNKER
You can either make a one-time donation to the site via Paypal...

...or you can subscribe and get billed monthly:

FOLLOW ME ON
SUBSCRIBE TO OUR
E-MAIL LIST
To join our e-mail list & get daily updates on new stories, e-mail us at newstory@tonyortega.org.
RSS Feed
Click here to add The Underground Bunker to your RSS Reader

Scientology Makes the Grade: Touching Walls to Total Freedom

TouchingWindowClaire Headley is taking us on our journey to train as Scientologists. She and her husband Marc were Sea Org workers who escaped from Scientology’s International Base in 2005. She spent years working with Scientology’s “tech,” and was trusted to oversee the auditing of Tom Cruise. Go here to see the first part in this series.

We’re continuing to learn what Scientologists actually do as they pay hundreds of dollars an hour to move up the “Bridge to Total Freedom.” This week, Claire tells us about Expanded Grade 1. What’s this level all about, Claire?

CLAIRE: We’ve covered “objective processes” before and how they are targeted to deal with “Control, Communication, and Havingness” (CCH). This level specifically deals with addressing the issues most people have with help, control, and problems.

THE BUNKER: Sounds practical.

CLAIRE: The ability gained for this level is listed on the Grade Chart as “Ability to recognize the source of problems and make them vanish.”

THE BUNKER: Voilà!

Up_The_BridgeCLAIRE: It doesn’t sound like the secrets of the universe you were looking for, but hey, who doesn’t want to be able to deal with problems better?

THE BUNKER: All right, we’re game. We’ve looked through the Expanded Grade 1 course, and we see that things start out with more object-touching. It involves numerous CCH routines, which you explained previously as “processes to overcome aversion to being controlled.”

In other words, Scientology at this point is a lot of conditioning about how to be a compliant Scientologist.

So we get “You touch that wall. Thank you” and “Put your hands against mine, follow them and contribute to their motion” and “Look around the room and tell me what you would permit to remain.”

You know, we’re having some flashbacks to the lovely lady who ran our pre-school class at this point. We’ll never forget the graham crackers and milk.

“I am going to tell you to start. And when I tell you to start, you start the body in that direction. Do you understand that? Good. Start. Did you start that body? Thank you.”

It must be exhilarating to spend something like 30 grand to get to this level of sophistication.

CLAIRE: Hey, if someone enjoyed it and had lasting, documented improvement, then good on them! I’m not knocking anyone’s good experiences.

Maybe there are positive things to be gained in Scientology. I just haven’t seen consistency, and in my own experience, the cons so massively outweighed any pros that it just is not much of a discussion.

Again, that’s me. If someone else feels transformed, I wish them all the best in true sincerity.

On the other hand, it’s my right as a free human being to give my opinion if I so choose. And I’ll tell you, the “fringes” of the Internet are a downright party compared to any one day of life at the Int Base. Simply glorious.

THE BUNKER: Now let’s get to the meat of Grade 1. Here are just a few of the many penetrating questions we’ll be asked repeatedly, for days.

“What problem could your help be to another?”

“What help from others would others rather not confront?”

“What motion has helped others?”

“Who have you failed to control?”

“Get the idea of you not solving a problem of your own.”

“What two things can you confront?”

“What solution could you make stick?”

“What self determined changes have you made this life?”

“Point out something another could get others to desire.”

The thing is, Claire, we can see some of these questions eliciting some helpful responses. But we marvel at the fetishistic nature of it. That it has to be these questions, asked exactly this way, in a particular order, over and over again, as if they had some magical quality that would unlock some gateway to an alternate reality.

Is that what Scientologists think is going on?

CLAIRE: For me at least it was a matter of “make it through this to eventually get to the higher levels where mystical abilities would be unlocked.”

Every issue of Advance! magazine featured supernatural tales of “OT Abilities” — I know you posted a lot of them last year.

THE BUNKER: Yes. Those stories were rather fantastic and pedestrian at the same time — having the supernatural power to find a parking spot or change a light to green, for example — and they did come off like so much glitter to keep the lower-level folks dreaming of OT, Operating Thetan, the top end of the Bridge.

CLAIRE: It always seemed that I was working towards a far-off and not very attainable goal of getting onto the OT levels, where everything would suddenly make sense and would have been worth it.

THE BUNKER: Speaking of worth, last week we estimated that Expanded Grade 0 would take five $2,500 “intensives” (counseling in 12.5-hour blocks) for $12,500 total.

CLAIRE: That’s right. But keep in mind that $12,500 for five intensives is the cheapest possible price. If you were to get this same grade delivered at Flag (the Scientology spiritual HQ in Florida), you would be paying way more than that. I think we’re safe and accurate to say that this level would cost $20,000. That factors in the extended time for the David Miscavige version of the grades, as we discussed last week.

COST THIS WEEK: $20,000

COST SO FAR: $58,197

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on August 20, 2013 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

If you’d like to help support The Underground Bunker, please e-mail our webmaster Scott Pilutik at BunkerFund@tonyortega.org

 

Share Button
  • Simi Valley

    Save your money for something really worthwhile.

    • Espiando

      Let’s see, most of a new car, or “What motion has helped others?”…hmmm, to be quite frank, they might not have liked the answers I’d given them on that last one, considering that all of the good and valid ones involve two of the basic requirements for life: reproduction and elimination.

      And just wanted to mention this: Simi, it’s great to have you here. You had one of the best Declarations of Independence I’ve read, and now you’re fully away. Stick around, please.

      • Robert Eckert

        “What motion has helped others?” Walking out of Scientology.

        • Poison Ivy

          🙂

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Ray Jeffrey’s?

          • WildaBeast

            Tee-hee!

        • ThetaBara

          Chalk tech!

      • Simi Valley

        I’m gonna be sticking around, not to worry! And opening up my big Noo Yawk mouth!

    • Kim O’Brien

      buy the Ducati

      • Sherbet

        You took the words right out of my mouth, Kim.

  • Krew13

    Fucking creepy shit. And the final outcome is being a dead eyed zombie like this woman:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8whUo7WtFvU

    • Sherbet

      Not just her eyes, Krew. All of the squirrel busters’ eyes have that same vacant look.

      • Robert Eckert

        Combat veterans speak of the “thousand yard stare”. The space opera seems to do something a little worse: the “thousand light-year stare”?

        • Mark

          To me it looks more like the “fried-egg stare of the true initiate” I once heard used about the dupes of some small but nasty esoteric cult.

          • q-bird

            She is badgered… and this makes her badgering.

            She is infected with Ronald’s Badger.

            LRH like a POX.

            • Mark

              Variola Ron Hubbard, or L. Ron Variolard?

              A pox on Hubbard and all his works!

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Ew, sounds worse than the Honey Badger.

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg

            • Robert Eckert

              The Hubbard Badger don’t give a shit…

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Ha! Good J&D tag team action there.

            • Rex

              I love when it attacks a poisonous adder, gets bit, proceeds to eat the head of the snake, then passes out when the venom kicks in. Wakes up, first action is to continue eating the snake.

            • monkeyknickers

              HONEY BADGER.

              HONEY BADGER NEEDS TO MAKE A MATERNITY SIZED TSHIRT.

              Oh the hilarity. 🙂

        • q-bird

          continuous soul crushing experiences produces this look. see.

        • Orglodyte

          I thought, at 0:35, “the sadness of a remote-controlled robot out of range of the signal.” Trying to operate outside the bubble ratchets up the dissonance something fierce.

    • monkeyknickers

      WOW.

      Just . . .

      WOW.

    • i-Betty

      0.08 seconds is an even worse zombie moment, I think. And 0.35. Yikes!

  • Snuzey

    There is one one good thing that comes out of this for me. It makes me realise you can sell Any Old Shit for stack load of cash, as long as you market it correctly. 20k for that. Deposit on a house for some. Just shows how far gone into your own head you must be to justify it. Staggering.

  • Missionary Kid

    Some of those are questions that we need to ask ourselves at times to reevaluate where we are in life.
    The rest simply have the effect of exposing one’s weak spots so $cientology can manipulate the subject.

    The price/value ratio is outrageous. One could simply have a good friend ask those questions. The cost would be minimal, say a cup of coffee and a danish, and the session will be friendly.

    • Arthur B

      The price/value issue is the big deal for me. Even if the Church were an absolutely friendly and lovely organisation and there were no Disconnection involved and no hard sell and no dubious building schemes and no abuse and everything was hunky dory, it’s still be an enormous scam because there is no way in Hell what the Church is offering is remotely worth the money the Church is charging for it. I think this a point which Claire missed – yes, if this stuff genuinely helped someone then that’s nice, but the help shouldn’t have been sold at such a ridiculous price, and the 12.5-hour blocks are ridiculously long for any sensible counselling process.

      The sheer cost in time and money way outweighs any benefit anyone could hope to gain when simply visiting a conventional therapist weekly just to talk is cheaper and far more likely to work; if Scientology benefits anyone, they benefit by accident.

      Interestingly, reading D:TMSOMH it seems that Ron’s original plan was just to sell a bunch of copies of his book and auditor training courses, but leave it down to people to audit each other as friends and family. I guess it was only when he realised how much more money he could make by monopolising the auditing process that he set up the Bridge the way it currently stands, because a lot of the actual texts he produced up until History of Man or so seem to be built on the assumption that people would be doing their own auditing.

      • Missionary Kid

        LRH set up the {church} as a money extraction machine. Everything was done to make money, not help people.

        • Arthur B

          Hey, like the big man said: “MAKE MONEY. MAKE MORE MONEY. MAKE OTHER PEOPLE PRODUCE SO AS TO MAKE MORE MONEY.”

    • Poison Ivy

      “One could simply have a good friend ask those questions”

      Yes, this is where Hubbard figured out he went wrong in Dianetics in making it a “self-help” book.
      Damn – if people help themselves, sure, you can make money from the book…but then what?

      With Dianetics, if you have a question, you just need to re-read a chapter and have a friend audit you.

      In Scientology, you have to keep coming back to the Hubbard well again and again at pain of…what? Disapproval? Shunning? The feeling of “missing something”? Your “Eternity?”

      • ze moo

        You have hit the nail on the head. Repeat business and a loyal clientele with a good cash flow is the difference between Dianetics and $cientology.

  • Eivol Ekdal

    “What is your Debit Card PIN number?”

    • WildaBeast

      After a 12.5 hour auditing session, you’d probably answer.

  • Reminds me of a Hubbard lecture where he discusses undoing years of university education in – of all thing – an electronics engineer. The engineer had apparently been indoctrinated to accept the hogwash that matter actually consisted of “atoms” which were mainly empty space. (How ridiculous is that, eh?!?) So, by making the engineer touch a wall and feel how solid it was, Hubbard was able to unroll years (of book learning). Very impressive.

    Here’s my problem (other than the immediate one): I don’t know which lecture this is from. I did find the reference once, but I lost it. I had to make my own transcript because one wasn’t available on The Internet, so it’s not been leaked too much.

    So, does this tall tale ring a bell with anyone?

    • sugarplumfairy

      well, that’s a step toward explaining the physicians who’ve worked for co$ and allowed horrors such as what happened to Lisa McPherson.. I’ve always wondered how any educated health care provider could condone scientology and it’s obviously thought-altering training routines..

      • KJP in Portland

        SPF: Crooked, unethical, greedy, inept doctors are everywhere. Be fortunate if you have a good physician. My physician at the VA is an absolute dolt! (Happy Tuesday Everyone!)

        • sugarplumfairy

          I’ve only met one physician I’d consider inept.. Ive heard of others that were crooked, unethical, greedy or just sick puppies, but never worked with any.. Some are better than others and I guess the numbers run pretty much the same in any profession.. but I still am stunned that co$ is able to attract any competent physician..

      • Couch_Incident

        I don’t pretend to understand it either, but there are the examples of the Nazi doctors, the Aum Shinrikyo doctors, and the Jonestown doctors.

      • ze moo

        Miscavige is supposed to have supervised Lisa McPherson’s ‘treatment’. No real doctor is known to have been involved until she was brought in to the ER and pronounced dead. When your organization can have a child as your medical liaison, don’t expect much.

        • WildaBeast

          Child as medical liaison? This is something I’ve missed. Please explain…because WHAT?!

          • ze moo

            The ‘cadet orgs’ for Sea Argghhh children, out in California, had children doing pretty much all the functions. TonyO and other sites (xenu.net and exscientologykids) mention this.

          • Mrs Libnish

            Jenna Miscavige was one at approx 8 or 9 years old. Read her book, it is really, really good.

    • Once_Born

      I don’t know about Hubbard but, from reading your account, I wonder if that story was not plagiarised from an anecdote in James Boswell’s book, “The Life of Samuel Johnson, LL.D”

      The friends (Boswell and Johnson) were discussing the ‘philosophy’ of their contemporary Bishop Berkeley. Berkeley maintained that material things did not exist, but were only ideas in the mind of those who perceived them (who were, in turn, ideas in the mind of God).

      Boswell writes that, “I observed, that though we are satisfied his doctrine is not true, it is impossible to refute it. I never shall forget the alacrity with which Johnson answered, striking his foot with mighty force against a large stone, till he rebounded from it — “I refute it thus.”

      • WildaBeast

        Was the refutation worth the broken toe?

      • Oh, reality and solid matter and atoms and such-like irrelevant book learning is set aside brilliantly in “The Third Policeman” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Policeman

        • Once_Born

          And darkness at night is caused by ‘black air’ rolling over the country…
          I love that book.

  • BananaSplits8

    “Maybe there are positive things to be gained in Scientology. I just
    haven’t seen consistency, and in my own experience, the cons so
    massively outweighed any pros that it just is not much of a discussion.”

    Hubbard plagiarized most of his work from multiple sources. Any beneficial aspect of scientology can be tracked down to someone else who gave his/her original theory more coherent thought and an efficient way to apply it.

    • Poison Ivy

      Yeah, and then he put the whole mish-mash together in a form designed to control people and make them his slaves.

      • ThetaBara

        …which is the “black magic” element. Stealing power from others for one’s own gain. Which was the point all along.

  • Couch_Incident

    I’d be curious about some of the other hidden costs: 1. When do you get heavily regged for donations and how much are we talking about? I suppose that may have changed over the years. 2. When do the SCN events and hanging out with others doing courses begin to narrow your “outside influences” (e.g., non-SCN friends and family, school)? 3. At one point do some decide to join Staff and really narrow their outside influences and outside income?

  • Bury_The_Nuts

    Ok, I have something really profound to say….

    This.Shit.Is.Just.Stupid!

    • Sidney18511

      You. Got. That. Right.

    • Sherbet

      This. Stupidity. Is. Just. Shit.

      • WildaBeast

        Heh…shit keeps us from poisoning ourselves. This particular effluent seems to accomplish the opposite effect, but on the mind. I think you may be being unfair to the excrement, here.

        • Sherbet

          Oh, well then, my apologies to bodily functions.

          • WildaBeast

            The contents of my cat’s litterbox ack your comm. /straightface

        • Robert Eckert

          Excreting it keeps you from poisoning yourself. Retaining it, on the other hand…

          • q-bird

            blood bank. sperm bank. poop bank?

            http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2012/10/what-is-fecal-transplant-difficile-bacteria

            I work with a gal who has crohn’s – she tells me of this option just today.

            • i-Betty

              Good grief. I’d never heard about fecal transplants before today; now I’m fascinated! Excellent article link, q-b 🙂

            • Rob Kline
            • q-bird

              oh no. I am afraid to click this link. I shit you not.

            • Rob Kline

              i shit you not it is real! made from korean children’s poo. some sort of folk medicine.

            • ThetaBara

              I know someone who’d worked as a pro-domme. After having her first customer who wanted her to pee on him, she felt like she was wasting money every time she went to the toilet on her own!

          • WildaBeast

            Well…yes. I guess I don’t really think of it as excrement until it’s been excreted :p But you make an excellent point.

      • GlibWog

        This Stupid Shit is Shitty Stupid

        • Roger Larsson

          Bullshit is glory in comparison.

          • GlibWog

            hahah.. Amen Roger

      • Jgg2012

        How. Dare. You.

    • FLUNK_101

      BTN, your statement presupposes that belief is a conscious act. It isn’t. Belief requires subsystems in the brain that do their job without conscious observation or control.

      And certain subsystems in the brain do not distinguish between fantasy and reality the way our conscious minds do.

      We ALL have wacky beliefs. It’s only human.

      And yes, sometimes auditing produces a beneficial result. It all has to do with the way the mind really works, and you have to understand that to understand what happens in Scientology, even if L Ron Hubbard didn’t understand it himself.

      If someone understands the human mind, and still thinks that every little thing in Scientology is stupid, great.
      But I don’t think there’s anyone here who can say that that.

      When reading about Scientology and Scientologists, it ‘s easy to ask how someone could be so stupid. We’ve all had that thought while reading about Scientology.

      But that’s calling the kettle black, isn’t it? Because it presupposes that we are in complete control of what it is we believe is true.

      Scientologists think that everything is within the control of their own consciousness.

      (That’s called magical thinking.)

      But magical thinking isn’t just moving physical objects with your mind.

      It’s also thinking you can completely control your mind with your mind, which you can’t do.

      Their are things which go on in our minds that are not under our own conscious control.

      Scientology EXPLOITS that.

      So, it doesn’t make sense to ask how someone could fall for this bullshit, unless you really understand the mind.

      The same thing goes for magic tricks. Nobody watching a magician cut a woman in half thinks they’re stupid.
      Instead, they wonder why it looks like that’s happening! That’s the human mind. It requires explaining sometimes, and Scientology is a false explanation designed to make you a slave.

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        Everything you say is true and I do understand it.

        But it doesn’t make this particular load of Hubbard beans above any less stupid!
        😉

      • Poison Ivy

        “Magical thinking isn’t just moving physical objects with your mind.

        It’s also thinking you can completely control your mind with your mind, which you can’t do.

        Their are things which go on in our minds that are not under our own conscious control.

        Scientology EXPLOITS that.”

        One of the best comments you’ve ever made, Flunk. Bravo, kind sir.

        • FLUNK_101

          Thank you, kind lady!

      • dwayners13 .

        Thanks Flunk (said with sarcasm)
        I came for some light reading, perhaps a little chuckle or two & you go & spoil it all with your deep philosophizing. Now my brain hurts, I don’t know what I actually believe & I can’t stop wondering how that magic trick/illusion is really done.

      • Veritas

        “Scientology is a false explanation designed to make you a slave.”
        Good point. Hubbard knew what he was doing. He designed the bridge to create slaves with Orwellian tactics. He material does sound stupid, but there is an evil method to his madness. It’s not so stupid if you realize his goal is to control and abuse people.

    • BosonStark

      Yeah, but it’s stupid shit you’ve probably failed to control, am I right? Because it’s a source force juggernaut.

      • i-Betty

        Source force juggernauts and vegetable trucks! You’re a one-man vehicular-analogy machine today, Boson!

    • monkeyknickers

      breathtakingly so, pretty girl. IT BOGGLES THE DAMN MIND.

    • ThetaBara

      Wow, a downvote and it isn’t even Thursday yet! Rock on, BTN!

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        Thank You. I do what I can to enturbulate.

        • ThetaBara

          2! 4! 6! 8!
          Everyone Enturbulate!!!

        • monkeyknickers

          Because you are a superhero.

  • Captain Howdy

    Where’s Zorba the GeeK? I need to kno..er..cognite if this is solid or not.

    • Mark

      Don’t tempt fate, Cap. Absit omen!

    • sugarplumfairy

      I feel confident I can answer that for you as effectively as our Greek friend: blah, blah blah blah.. blah blah, blah blah blah.. new reality.. blah blah blah.. mest.. blah blah.. saint hubbard..

      See? Better now?

      • Captain Howdy

        Thanks..now I can go back to bed.

        • i-Betty

          Haha! 😀

      • i-Betty

        Hehe! And…

    • Sherbet

      What Mark said. Hush!

    • q-bird

      Solid!

      Theeo… that wrasscally hubbored hummer, under-cover man from Greece…

      quite enjoys the Underground Bunker doesn’t he?!

      O Yeah boy, he sure got lots & lots and LOTS of ‘splainin’ to do!
      Stay tuned Capt.

    • WildaBeast

      I can’t figure out if he’s genuinely trying to convince us, trolling for all he’s worth (approx. 3/10, if so), or some combination of the two.

      • Mark

        I wonder if it’s more than one person, considering how quickly the comments appear.

        • WildaBeast

          He’s pretty verbose, and it takes real time to type that much, even if you’re quick. Is it possible that he’s written up chunks of his posts before, and is copying and pasting paragraphs into place, then just writing stuff around them to connect them to the topic at hand? Or he’s multiple people, but the style itself doesn’t seem to change, and it would be hard to imitate.

          • Mark

            I think you’re right about the cut-and-paste; there was quite a long gap between his first comment and the subsequent deluge yesterday – he could have been furiously typing all that time. However he does it, he’s quite obsessive-compulsive – “autodidact” is a Greek word!

      • sugarplumfairy

        It feels like A-E to me which makes me very, very sad..

    • Missionary Kid

      He almost deliberately seems to misunderstand or misinterpret whatever is written. There is none so blind as those who will not see.

      I got his last reply just after Tony posted today.

      • Poison Ivy

        He seems like a genuinely nice and happy chap, but I’m wondering about the number of bulbs in the chandelier, if you get my drift….

        • Missionary Kid

          Theo’s “education” is pretty shallow. With few exceptions, everything is LRH. He doesn’t relate to anything else. WogWorld knowledge is foreign to him.

          Yesterday, it turned out that his historical viewpoint on Martin Luther was taken from a movie. Is that shallow, or what? Then he interpreted everything said through his LRH filter and replied accordingly. He continues to do it today.

          Since English is not his language, he either is playing dumb or he doesn’t understand metaphor.

          When he looks something up, he goes to LRH. He is massively ignorant of the rest of the world, and can’t understand why we don’t listen to the {golden words and terms} of LRH and immediately cave to his superior knowledge.

          I know where he’s coming from, to a certain extent. When I was in my 50s, my father basically started a sermon about what Jesus said, with a full-on call to the cross. The circumstances were such that I couldn’t say anything because I was so angry that I would have exploded, until my sister stopped him.

          When asked why he did it, he said that I must not understand the bible, because if I did, I MUST be converted. Theo’s the same way about LRH.

  • aquaclara

    We’re reaching a steep cliff here now. This is getting expensive….and the questions are strange. I wonder what the attrition rate when someone reaches this level.

    • Sherbet

      Have you noticed the word “control” in there?

      • WildaBeast

        It’s bloody creepy.

      • aquaclara

        yea, “control” and a lot of “what did you do” s….just by reading it, it gives me the chills.

        • WildaBeast

          “Tell us everything you did so we can control you. Now tell us about you controlling other people, because if we decide you’re good at it, we’re going to start hard-selling you to join the SO.” (12.5 hours later) “Congratulations! You can now find the source of any problem and make it vanish! That will be $20,000, please.”

          • aquaclara

            and to think that this is the “WIN” part that everybody gets all clappy and hiphip hooraying about.

  • Mark

    “What motion has helped others?”

    • Kim O’Brien

      you got me thinking dirty and it’s 6:30 in the morning where i live 😉 !!

      • Mark

        Sorry, Kim. I really shouldn’t squirrel GAT2 tech for Expanded Grade 1 before the Super Power building even opens.

        Blame my incautiously looking into a friend’s compost bin yesterday. And my filthy mind.

        • Poison Ivy

          Will “double piles of dung” be on the smell wall in Sooper Power?

          • Mark

            Not sure – they’ll need a lot of space for “Odour of LRH” (a mixture of B.O., rancid Wildroot hair-oil, & ashtrays full of Kools butts), & “Stench of DM’s arrogance” (beyond description).

            • Poison Ivy

              Don’t forget the eau de rotting teeth…

            • Mark

              Halitus of halitosis!

          • Couch_Incident

            Smell-o-vision from John Waters’ “Polyester” with Divine!

        • i-Betty

          So funny 🙂

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Hey, it’s dirty thirty somewhere, right?

    • WildaBeast

      Errr…how literal about placing piles of dung on the board do you have to be? Is this like monkeys flinging poop, or is there another “Power-up: Regular Pile of Dung” card?

      • Mark

        Of course:

        • WildaBeast

          Oh, good. I’d hate to see what the board would look like, otherwise. You’d have to make it dishwasher-safe, or keep replacing it after every game.

          • Mark

            Are you trying to give me a hernia from guffawing?

            • WildaBeast

              Fair exchange, Mark! You’ve damn near done it to me a few times…

  • Kim O’Brien

    OK ..’indies’ …it’s really time to wake the hell up . I mean seriously ….this is just flat out retarded and deep down ….you know it . ” Who have you failed to control?” …….THAT one should make you nervous . RUN !!!!!!

    • Poison Ivy

      The idea that we could or SHOULD control another human is abhorrent to me. Aside from controlling your 2 year old from running across the street or having a temper tantrum in a restaurant; unless you are a teacher or a military officer or a sports coach, etc – we are not here to “control” others! Control is an illusion. Sure, you can control the movements of someone who is beneath you in status. But you cannot and should not control people’s hearts, minds and souls. If there’s a sin in this world, it’s that. And that is exactly what Scientology (and Hubbard) set out to do.

      • i-Betty

        *applauds wildly*

        • Poison Ivy

          I ɦﻉคɼՇ Betty

      • WildaBeast

        “But you cannot and should not control people’s hearts, minds and souls. If there’s a sin in this world, it’s that.”
        This. With infinite emphasis.

      • Missionary Kid

        The “control” of a teacher or coach or military officer or parent is only to get one’s body to move in a certain way, not to control another’s mind.

    • monkeyknickers

      It completely depresses me to visit indie blogs. To watch people exchange Hubbard references and expound on their deep intense meaning. He was a fat pasty fuck born without a moral compass who got lucky. And I honestly don’t think he was at ALL smart. At all. It’s referenced frequently that he was some kind of “mad genius” with a mind like a mousetrap and a diabolical strategy.

      He wasn’t. He was a dick, and an idiot.

      In other news: I am eating a twinkie. It is a delicious twinkie full of goodness and light. It has a creamy soft bit and a cakey bit too. Ashleen just asked for a bite, but I wrestled her to the ground screaming “Back OFF little red!! Don’t even LOOK at my damn twinkie!”

      So that was fun.

    • Eclipse-girl

      TY. This new indie movement only think DM is the problem but $cientology is still and helpful. $cientology at its core is mind control, and stops a person from independent thought.

  • BosonStark

    Looking forward to it all coming together on the OT levels seems to be a pattern and then like Kathie Heard of the Sunday Funnies, once you reach OTVIII, an OT at the top looks forward to doing the next OT levels when they come out. In the meantime, Kathie (not to be confused with Claire) is not mentioning Super Power rundown. Instead she runs on about what healing he (LRH?) did in emergency rooms and hospital wards with his magic touch assists and how COB is the greatest leader she has ever seen.

    Seems to me that instead of carrot-on-a-stick, it has turned into more like colliding with a vegetable truck.

    • Poison Ivy

      “Seems to me that instead of carrot-on-a-stick, it has turned into more like colliding with a vegetable truck.”

      Brilliant simile BS!

      • Robert Eckert

        Of course Boson is brilliant: didn’t just fall off a turnip truck, you know!

        • Poison Ivy

          Rim shot! You guys should take it on the road!

        • ze moo

          Are you sure that banana peels are not in play here?? Someone is slipping and sliding…..

  • WhereIsSHE

    “Get the idea of you not solving a problem of your own.”
    This is, as far as I’m concerned, the entire point of this b.s. exercise.
    Talk about instilling a sense of inadequacy and helplessness.
    This isn’t about helping the subject.
    This is about implanting the subject with an insidious suggestion.
    How could that ever actually HELP anyone??

    To DM:
    GET THE IDEA OF YOU BEING SURROUNDED BY SPIES.

    • Poison Ivy

      What WhereIsSHE said ^^^^

  • WhereIsSHE

    I love Claire’s take on REALITY, to wit:
    “The ‘fringes’ of the Internet are a downright party compared to any one day of life at the Int. base.”

    To those who are “on the fence” about getting OUT:

    GET THE IDEA OF BEING FREE TO THINK AND EXPRESS YOURSELF AS YOU SEE FIT, TO SEE AND HEAR WHAT OTHERS TRULY THINK, AND TO SOMETIMES LAUGH YOUR ASS OFF IN THE PROCESS!

    • WildaBeast

      I’ve been reading BlackRob’s Facebook screenshots of the Scientology FB group. I keep running across posts that talk about using the Scientology-filtered version of Facebook (which has what? 10,000 pages total?), or warning people about having friends of FB friends who *might* be SPs, and I just keep thinking: if, this early on the bridge, you have developed the ability to “recognize the source of a problem and make it vanish”, why is everyone on the Scientology Facebook group so worried about using the filtered interwebs and who their friends are friends with? Why do they have to find out from someone else? Can’t they recognize the source of the problems they’re clearly having because of it (LRH said so, so it must be true), and *poof!* make those problems vanish?
      The level of cognitive dissonance is astounding.
      (Edited for typos.)

      • WhereIsSHE

        Right.
        If they are so great at “confronting” and “shattering” “suppression, why the heck are they constantly having to HIDE from (alleged) “suppression”, like scared little kids who believe there are “monsters” in their closets and/or under their beds??!

        WAKE UP!!!
        HUBBARD WASN’T ABOUT YOU LEARNING ABOUT YOURSELF/’KNOWING” ANYTHING. HE WAS INTERESTED IN CONFUSING YOU AND SCARING YOU ABOUT NON-EXISTENT “MONSTERS”, SO YOU WOULD GROW TO BECOME DEPENDENT ON HIS FAKE “RESEARCH”, FOR WHICH HE COULD CONTINUALLY CHARGE YOU A PREMIUM, AND THEN SOME.

        HUBBARD WAS THE MONSTER.
        DM IS THE MONSTER.
        AND IF YOU DISCONNECT FROM YOUR OWN LOVED ONES JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE ORDERED TO DO IT, YOU HAVE BECOME ONE OF THE UGLIEST PARTS OF THE MONSTER.

        • i-Betty

          Wow. Bloody hell, yes. That’s too accurate for comfort.

        • WildaBeast

          Usually, that many caps would make me cringe a wee bit…but not in this case. In this case it seems like the only way to post the statement. I just want to grab these poor people by the shoulders and shake them until the synapses start firing in proper sequence again. But my arms don’t fit through the internet. And you seem to have done the online equivalent of the grabbing-and-shaking for me. Cheers, for saving me the trouble!

          • Eclipse-girl

            It is unfortunate that shaking at them and making them read the above paragraphs over and over will not deprogram them. It is unfortunate that CAN was taken by $cientology. Deprogramming is difficult and it takes time.

            • WildaBeast

              I know. I know it wouldn’t work. And I’d never try it – it would be counterproductive, I think, not just ineffective. But there’s this very basic part of me that wishes it could work.

            • Eclipse-girl

              I understand. I wish I could just hug these deluded people , have a rational conversation with them and “BING” they would become independent thinking, rational adults and start to sue the Co$ for all the pain and misery it has caused them. Also they would start to tell how they lied to KSW. Its a nice idea.

            • WildaBeast

              One of the good things about the Bunker, I think – it’s a place where you can let all the “ARGH!” out without ending up being counter-productive.

          • Poison Ivy

            Def worth the caps.

        • GlibWog

          Hell Yes to the Caps!

      • Poison Ivy

        The Black Rob thread was a rabbit hole I fell into yesterday. It was truly stunning. And sad. Hey, you’re free to believe that your positive thinking or OTness or postulate or whatever caused a light to turn from red to green if you want. If it makes you feel good or less powerless in your life, so what? But what’s scary is, that SHARED delusion that is so apparent on the thread – the Groupthink that the very expensive brainwashing everyone is going into debt for is actually CAUSING these “miracles” to happen. That is the very definition of a scam.

        • WildaBeast

          I know. They’re all talking so loudly, reinforcing the group delusion as hard as they can…I keep swinging from heartbroken to laughter when I read it. It’s just like…little things going right in your life is not a miracle. No matter how crappy things are, the odds are overwhelming that something small WILL go right; you just have to notice it. It is not the tech working. It is the world continuing to turn. If Scientology helps you notice the little things going right, GREAT! But you can get all the stuff for free online, and notice all the little things, and still have money in your pocket – which is a BIG thing going right.

          • Poison Ivy

            Exactly! It’s great to have a spirituality, or a world view, or an attitude, or whatever you want to call it – where you acknowledge small things going right in a mean ugly world. But Scientology wants you to believe that your OT sooper power superiority over all men is what’s causing it. Dangerous, dangerous. Jason Beghe said it in his speech in Germany – to paraphrase; it’s this re-inforced perception of superiority that can allow people to easily do harmful things to others (i.e. Fair Game.)

            • WildaBeast

              Absolutely. Would say more but must leave for work now. Enjoy the day, everyone!

            • i-Betty

              Have fun, Wilda 🙂

      • i-Betty

        Wildabeast, I’ve been away for a couple of days. Can you or Ivy please give me a link to BlackRob’s FB screenies? xxx

  • KNMF

    Now, “shake your body right to the ground”

  • q-bird

    In this movie, in one of the last scenes, the little girl, the daughter, who has rank over adult pre-clears, is participating in this object-touching process.

    – touch the wall – thank you – again & again… ad nauseum.
    To read about it is one thing, to see it being performed is another. Very strange.
    I cannot imagine what it would be like to actually DO this, pay for the {{delivery of this service}}.

    Hard to imagine what cogs occur while playing hubbtard’s game.

    http://youtu.be/SFRt5rPYoBc

    • Poison Ivy

      This is a chilling movie and worth watching. I remember that ending scene all too well.

    • Robert Eckert

      1:24:30 starts the “touch the wall” scene.

    • Sidney18511

      This looks like a great movie, I wish that it had subtitles.

      • q-bird

        you can – click the cc on the bottom right – then click english

        • i-Betty

          Thanks, q-bird. I got sucked in from 1:24:30 and wished I could watch a translated version.

          • Captain Howdy

            It’s required viewing for all ARC members.

    • Unex Skcus

      I watched this movie some time ago… it was just so terribly sad.

      • q-bird

        Hello there Unex Skcus – me too, I know whatcha mean there – I saw it a couple of years ago, and never forgot that scene with the wee girl-child doing the Zombie thing, (forced indoctrination – no fair to put that shit on an innocent kid) – and that scared the hell out of me. I watched the whole movie again this afternoon. This time through, I could feel the father’s panic, rising again & again, as there was no fixing anything – insidious cult dealings – sleazy avaricious fuckers. On the lighter side, someone a few weeks ago suggested a documentary movie called, “I am” and I will tell you, whereas “Until Nothing Remains” is sad & depressing, “I am” was enlightening & gives me hope. To whoever mentioned this flick, many thanks.

  • WildaBeast

    Just tried this as an experiment – read the article before any coffee. The dialogue between Claire and Tony I can follow. The Scientologese makes NO SENSE. I know it’s English (kind of), I understand the individual words, but how they work together makes my brain turn into a pretzel and come up with a big fat “?”
    Stimulants shouldn’t be required to make sense of something that is technically written in one’s native language. They just shouldn’t.
    That is all.

    • tetloj

      When I read anything Hubbard wrote I’m like Bernard Black doing taxes

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLvfnI7cbME&feature=youtube_gdata_player

      • WildaBeast

        Haahahahahaha! I DON’T blame you. That “spread wide their arms to the friendly sun” or whatever it was – it was at the top of Kathie Heard’s testimony in the Sunday funnies – made me scream, I have to say. It physically hurts to read prose that bad.

  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

    I think of how long I saved for my house. I could have spent the down payment on Scientology processing instead.

    I am proud to say that I just hit the point where I have donated more money to the Underground Bunker and Knowledge Report than I did to the cult of Scientology.

    Sadly, my mother has left the home I lived in when I was 16 years old, the year I got on the cult mailing list. I received very regular mailings from the local, the British, and the California offices for more than four decades. Very early on I asked my mother to throw the mail directly in the trash but I would have to guess that I was receiving a hundred pieces or more per year. The cost of postage exceeded the amount I spent sometime in the late 20th century.

    I wrote the local office at one point and told them to take me off the mailing list. They didn’t. I was told later on, by an ex, that to take me off the mailing list would hurt someone’s statistic. He said that the cult even sent out mulitiple mailings to the same individuals (knowingly and at will) because the guy in the mail room didn’t want a lower mailing stat on Thursday.

    • Sherbet

      Ah, yes, this is a religion.

      • Cher

        There is something seriously wrong when stats are used as a barometer for success in a “religion”. I have tried, in earnest, to make sense of why they do the things they do and it is always an exercise in futility. Everything that is done in Scientology is done for the explicit purpose of making money and controlling people. There are truly no words that adequately express my disgust for CofS.

        • Robert Eckert

          As JohnP has pointed out before, there is something seriously wrong with the way they use stats as measures of success even from a pure business standpoint. It gives incentives for all kinds of counterproductive efforts, like this unjustifiable treeslaughter.

          • Cher

            Even in a business model if one doesn’t make the “stats” worse case scenario is you lose your job. In CofS it’s punishable by hard labor and potential loss of your “salvation”.

        • ze moo

          During the heyday of Dianetics and early $cientology, marketing was ‘science’ of selling anything. It became a big part of corporate life in the west. Lroon just borrowed or stole what parts he wanted to use. That he picked some bad statistics and applied them incorrectly is just Lroon. When you can’t question the great guru, your in for a wild ride. CO$ is riding their bad statistics and marketing right into Oblivion.

    • WildaBeast

      Super-effective, wouldn’t you say? Nothing convinces a person that a cause is worthwhile to spend, spend, spend for, like getting 8 identical pieces of begging mail on the same day! Statistics tell no lies…oh wait, I think I’m doing it wrong.

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        Most people see a guy on a street corner handing out pamphlets and they just walk around him. If they mistakenly take a pamphlet and find out that it is from a “church” it is chucked in the next garbage. People don’t go into a mystic society because everything is going great. Scientology has to fix their problem and the problem has to be festering like a burst boil. That was me when I got in.

        • WildaBeast

          Argh, tried to reply but my internet did evil things and it ate my post.
          Recap: I didn’t mean to sound so snarky. I’m really grateful that I didn’t hang out on Yonge St. when I was 16 or 17, because I was enough of a mess then that if someone had come up to me and said, “We can fix that!” I could have easily been sucked in. When your whole life is a misery to you, you want to believe anyone or anything that promises to just make the misery STOP.

          • Eclipse-girl

            Most people have vulnerable times in their life and that is what cults prey on. For all os us who were never in, and can see the delusional thought processes of those who are in, we can be arrogant if we think that would never happen to us. Maybe I just have too much empathy.

          • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

            Not at all WildaBeast. I just hope I didn’t sound too defensive.

            • WildaBeast

              Not at all. I re-read what I had written and it was an unnecessary level of snark. Sometimes my fingers type before my brain gets in gear, and I truly appreciate being called on it.

    • aquaclara

      The post office and the mail room guy – the only two who see a benefit from all that useless mail.
      Oh, and us, too. Without it, we would have no Sunday Funnies!

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        That got a laugh from me. The Sunday Funnies have moved into Tuesday.

    • Mrs Libnish

      You should have said “thank you, keep it coming. I’m forwarding these to Tony Ortega for the Sunday funnies”. Might have stopped then…

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        The morons from the cult office got hold of my mother’s phone number. They called on a Sunday when I was visiting. I had not darkened their doors in more than thirty years but they weren’t giving up on me. Not wanting to make the visit unpleasant for my mother I took a deep breath and merely asked the moron to not call again. It is going to take them a long time to clear the planet.

        • WildaBeast

          My sweet Lord! 30 years after you left, and they were still calling your MOTHER’S house?

        • Mrs Libnish

          You were very considerate of your mother…kudos! I would have lost it and apologized later.

        • Studious Judious

          Whenever I get telemarketing calls, I like to waste their time. I say, “Can you hold for a moment?” and then put the phone down without hanging up.

          • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

            Sounds like a good idea. Whenever the body routers hand me a leaflet I ask, “Body rub?” I try to be polite to most everyone but I can make a rare exception.

    • Robert Eckert

      My brother told me that when he was in college living at a frat house, someone from a rival fraternity pranked them by sending in to Scientology in the name of several people in the house, and they got five hundred pieces of mail one day.

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        Stories like that make me happy to be alive.

      • WildaBeast

        Can you imagine the postman? Coming up the walk with 50 lbs. of mail, just going, ‘WTF?!’

      • Phil McKraken

        Junk mail is a major source of income for the USPS. So good on them. Send mail. Send more mail. Make people produce so that they can send more mail.

        • Poison Ivy

          Who knows, they may be keeping the USPS afloat. Maybe that’s where the conspiracy lies…the USPS is bribing the IRS & FBI to PLEASE let the damn Clams keep disseminating!! (Just kidding there.)

    • Poison Ivy

      Talk about working harder and not working smarter…

  • Xique

    My spouse had easily spent the $58,197 by the time he finished Grade 1 , and then some. Between the IAS ‘s insane regging, ( they come knocking at your door without any warning) a 3wk visit on the Freewinds for god knows what, and some Sec Checking Fun at Flag another year, accommodations being a large part of the cost no doubt, he’s wasted good and plenty. This is not factoring in that the lack of income for a few years , back in the 80s, when we were staffers at a busy mission. And then of course there’s been a sundry list of Ideal Org donations, Basic Books , Cds , repair auditing sessions, grief counseling sessions etc. At least $158,197 was spent , by the time he finished Grade 1, at least.

    Currently, he’s clear , he’s not clear. Like Beghe says, “They fucked me up!”, except I’m gonna say “they fucked him up!” I wish he could see it. This is hard earned $ he could have socked away for his retirement, but no.
    And the saga continues.
    Thanks Claire, thanks Tony, I appreciate these entries.
    BTW, my expenses were also plenty, but never like his. I often spent my days in Ethics, fighting the system, or otherwise was home happily raising a family.
    I hated Scientology, and still do.

    • WildaBeast

      Ugh, the concept of paying tens (or hundreds) of thousands of dollars to do something you hate. I’d lose my shit. Well, clearly you did too, or you wouldn’t be posting here on the fringes of the internet. Hurray for the losing of one’s shit! It brings awesome people to the Bunker, apparently.

      • Xique

        Indeed, I have lost my shit on this subject. too many times to even count!

        • WildaBeast

          You have good reason to. I’m glad you’re here; it’s a safe space to lose it. Good luck with everything, xique – my heart goes out to you.

    • aquaclara

      wow. Repair auditing, Sec checking, Ethics, grief counseling – people really buy this stuff? Ikes. Awful, awful stuff, even without a bill.

      Xique, don’t know if you are free to say, but is hubby still in?

      • Xique

        Oh yeah , he’s in. Can’t talk right now….

      • Xique

        I still love him.

        • aquaclara

          So glad you’re posting here. We are all around, whenever you need us. He is a lucky dude.

          • Xique

            Thank you so much .

        • i-Betty

          Heartbreaking. Love to you, Xique.

          xxx

          • Xique

            Love back at you , and thanks so much,

        • monkeyknickers

          Of course you do sweetheart. The worst part is watching someone you love suffering when they don’t see it themselves. What a lonely, defeated feeling.

          I feel the same about my sister.

          • i-Betty

            MK 🙁 I’m so sorry. xxx

            • monkeyknickers

              Well to be fair, I’m not really talking about her recent foray into cultism – just kinda her whole life to date. We came up in shitty circumstances and she just HURTS I think. And makes choices based on that without knowing that that is what she’s doing.

              I wish I could tell her – well fuck it I DO tell her, but I wish she’d GET it – that she doesn’t have to make the choices she’s making. She can just walk away. She can just WALK. AWAY.

              I think that’s what really sucked her into this whole Sci thing.

              I dunno Betty. I like to indulge in amateur psychologizing right around lunch time. It improves me appetite. And makes me glad to be an active participant in the dreaded onslaught of mental health adherents bent on destroying the world (emphasis on diminutive sociopathic tyrants)

            • Missionary Kid

              MK, please realize that you can’t tell your sister anything, IMO. She probably comes to you, presenting a problem, and you jump in and try to help her. Then, when she’s sucked everything out of you she can, she bails.

              She won’t listen to you because you’re her sister. She probably loves you, but also resents you, believing (as sibs often do) that if it weren’t for you, they’d have all of the stuff they wanted from the family and the world.

              Have you been an enabler, cleaning up her messes? That’s what family often does.

              As a parent, my choice with my kids was always, when do I have them take the consequences of their actions? If I didn’t, how were they to learn not to do certain bad or stupid things?

              With my oldest son, I stumbled on the realization that if I sent him to someone else, that he’d listen to them. I was just dad.

            • monkeyknickers

              You are so spot on MK. Seriously – are you reading my mail? 🙂

              Oh, I absolutely enable her. There are no consequences for her behavior. Go to the can on some bullshit scam? Fine, I’ll raise your kid, and then bring you to LA to start fresh after your bullet. Decide you’re going to join a weird cult developed by a fat white doughy loser? Fantastic! I’ll just be over here filling out papers to legally adopt your child while I scour the fucking country trying to find you.

              I mean – I definitely know that I’m part of the problem. And not just with my sister.

              But the lonely feeling I’m sharing with Xique is that dull ache you have when you realize that all the love in the world can’t save the person you . . . . love. They can’t hear you. It’s like watching them drown when you’re right there with your hand in the water.

            • Missionary Kid

              No. I haven’t been reading your mail, but I’ve been paying attention to your postings. I don’t know if you’re to the point where you can take control of your life and take action yet. Your sister has been controlling your life, and you’ve been letting her, because you love her.

              I believe it’s time for you to take some action. Of course, when you’re up to your ass in alligators, it’s hard to remember your original objective is to drain the swamp, and you’re swamped.

              You’re still in a passive mode, from what I’ve gathered. Are you waiting for her next move?

            • monkeyknickers

              Yes, and yes, and yes. 🙂

              I’m not sure if I’m in passive mode. It’s hard to say I s’pose. About 2 months after I found out I was pregnant I finally admitted defeat and started legally pursuing removing Ashleen from my sister and becoming her legal guardian. It’s actually a little harder than you would expect. Evidently the state wants you to prove that you earn a bunch of money before they’re willing to sign her over from a convict.

              And . . . . I started trying to find my sister. Mostly so I could give her a smack. I’m no longer allowed at that big blue churchy building near Kaiser for example. (ASHO? LA ORG? AOS? XYZ? who the fuck knows what it is).

              Then I watched a tv program on youtube about Sci that the BBC made. It named several “defectors” who were still engaged in some way. I hunted them down and essentially begged for their help. And honestly, tho I really can NOT understand their continued allegiance to that bloated old pig, they have been nothing more than TOTALLY WONDERFULLY polite. And seriously how weird is it to get random emails from so mid level pregnant musician who’s searching for her sister while raising her niece. It’s gotta get old.

              So that’s where I am now.

              I can stop allowing her to use Ash as a pawn and a way to manipulate situations; Ash is going to be mine. But I will never be able to turn off my love for her, and I will never be able to put out that little flicker of hope that I can find her, physically and in the dark mental place she is in. I love her. And I won’t stop looking, and I won’t ever stop her from having a relationship with her daughter. But on my terms now.

              This whole thing is just such utter bullshit. I feel really really REALLY lucky to have found this forum.

              Sorry sweets – I think I was ranting. I rant sometimes. Mostly about those fucking leaf blowers that people crank up at 7AM, but . . . . I’m flexible. 🙂

            • Poison Ivy

              You have a heart of gold, Monkey…narcissists, culties and both doughy and diminutive cult leaders all feed off of the genuinely good. That’s the crime of it all.

            • monkeyknickers

              You’re lovely and making me kinda weepy with the positive feedback, sweetheart (tho frankly I watched a dog food commercial this morning and cried) :))

              But – this is how we all feel, right ? Any one of us . . . for someone . . . our family or maybe a friend or a lover . . . .

              And you are SO right. Sociopaths feed off the natural tendency for humans to bond and love. Like bacteria feed off cheese. Or . . . . well, I’m not trying to be all species-ist here . . . . dolphins feed off sardines. How we feed off soybeans or cattle. They see a source of nourishment. And they exploit it.

              Or . . . . something. I have no idea what I’m talking about.

              🙂

            • Robert Eckert

              That was the psychopath’s line in Green Mile: “You love your sister?” That’s how he controlled them.

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUmIngIjStk

            • monkeyknickers

              What did I just watch. Holy shit. What the hell was that.

            • Robert Eckert

              Sorry. It’s a classic movie about death row. Spoiler alert: don’t read if you want to watch the movie

              A big black man is scheduled to be executed because he was found with two dead little girls; actually he has healing powers and was trying to help them, but he is not very communicative and could not convey what had really happened. Another prisoner is just kind of simple-minded, and although he is guilty you are horrified when his execution goes wrong and he dies in agony. And then there is this psychopath, and we learn at the end that he really killed the two girls the black man was convicted for: he controlled each of them by threatening to hurt the other; “you killed them with their love”, the black man sadly observes.

            • monkeyknickers

              Oh christ.

              Thanks for the short version. I don’t think I coulda handled the whole movie.

              You know, doll – I read a book called “The Passage” recently that kinda absorbed me totally, and had a similar situation. A man (black obviously I’m not trying to be racist but jesus of course he would be portrayed as such) who loved someone so much he took the heat for her suicide.

              It was very moving for me, somehow.

              Plus it’s a kick ass book.

              Plus I’m pissed at the film Kick Ass franchise for ruining this phrase for the rest of us. FOR LIFE.

              🙂

            • Robert Eckert

              “Green Mile” was based on a Stephen King story, and he’s generally pretty unsparing. It is a classic movie and I would highly recommend it to the kind of people who would enjoy the genre, but you… no, I don’t think it would be your cup of tea.

            • monkeyknickers

              No Robert! Wait! I like good stuff! 🙂 I like hard to take in your face cinema! And I do know the Green Mile . . . I just avoided it thinking it would stink. But now I will check it out. I’ve just been so fucking weepy with these damn . . . . . these damn . . . . hormonal lodestones lodged in my gut.

              By the way – the guy who played the horrible prison guard (as he is described in every story on this subject) recently married a 16 year old girl.

              It takes a lot to shock Hollywood, but his agent and his PR people dropped him FAST.

            • GlibWog

              Robert.. I have watched Green Mile so many times and I did NOT know that was Billy the Kid?

            • GlibWog

              Yes.. They are all Parasites. Just makes ya so Damn Mad and Helpless.. It took me a long, long, long time to get to acceptance..

              Then I read other’s stories and triggers strong emotions. We love ya Monkey.. xo

            • monkeyknickers

              And I you. Isn’t that funny? Isn’t is curious how I (or we I hope) would roll out the extra bed for these people you met only cerebral-ly ?

              It actually gives me hope.

              And I make mean pancakes, should you need a joint to tuck into if you’re stuck. :))

            • GlibWog

              Awwwwwwww… Sweet.. ( Love pancakes..) You do have so much going on honey.. Twins coming ( yay) Ashleen.. ( Yay) Sister? BBBBBBooooooo .. You have so many emotions going on..
              Hormonal and Life.. Just come here as much as you can! You need us! xoxoxo

            • Eclipse-girl

              I don’t know where to jump in and I do not have advice. I just wanted to Give MonkeyKnickers a hug for all she has gone through.
              (((HUG)))

            • monkeyknickers

              Baby I’ll take that hug and give it right back and probably become really nosy about your life and ask a bunch of personal questions and subsequently irritate you a whole bunch. Trust me – I’ve been thru it before. I love my peeps.

              But since you’ve been nice to me, I have to add you to the twins’ extra mama list. Please pack your bags. You and Kim and BTN will have your own rooms. And I shall cook you delicious suppers.

              See .. . . .? Now you’re stuck with me girl. 🙂

            • Robert Eckert

              Where is Kim, anyway?

            • Eclipse-girl

              Aww, MK you are too kind. I wish you a safe, uncomplicated birth. And plenty of help with the two happy healthy little ones.

            • GlibWog

              Hi Sweetie pie xoxo

            • monkeyknickers

              I love it when I can spend the day being all neighborly on the bunker. 🙂

              What a bunch of smarties you people are. 🙂

            • GlibWog

              Oh We are We are!

            • i-Betty

              No, you’re wonderful; how TRULY lucky Ashleen is to have you for an aunt. Some of the things you’ve let drop about Ash tells us what a funny, happy child she is, and that’s almost certainly down to you. I think we’re all feeling for you right now. Can you sense the love and support?

              I hope so 🙂

            • monkeyknickers

              I really dig you peeps.

              And I know you’d do the same for your family. Or fuck – your friends.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              We dig you too! Glad to have ya here even if it is under less than ideal circumstances.

            • monkeyknickers

              Yay!

              I’m totally putting you all on the list at my next show . . . . you know, after I punt the infant infiltrators and their supreme pre-school ruler. 🙂

              Jesus I can’t wait to have a cocktail again. :))

            • monkeyknickers

              And also – I shoulda added –

              *I* am lucky to have Ashleen in my life. What a vibrant, incredibly smart little girl she has become. And so caring for others, and so . . . . . ingenious and open to new ideas.

              We had a small spell of tantrums, but . . . who doesn’t. I STILL have tantrums. 🙂

              So it’s me who’s lucky. Which makes me ache extra for my sister. What a life she is throwing away so she can . . . . raise her fucking stats.

              Yeesh.

            • Missionary Kid

              What follows has been tough for me to write because my heart is sad for your situation. Please take it in the spirit that I’m offering it in.

              Here’s a question for you. Why are you trying to find your sister? What can you say to her that will make any difference? Nothing, except for empty promises back. Are you still trying to make things right for her? You can’t. Only she can.

              In the cult, she’s protected from you, and she avoids any consequences, so why would she leave? As long as she’s got money, they’ll keep her.

              She’s already said, “Fuck you.” Loving a person doesn’t mean being a doormat. She’s been out in the pasture and she’s wiped the shit off on you. She hasn’t shown her love for you or Ash. You’re really in the position of an abused woman. You’d kick any man’s ass who did that to his wife, but it seems you’re acting like an abused wife who keeps going back to her hubby, only it’s your sister.

              I would go to the County of L.A., if it’s still your residence, and apply for welfare for Ash. The County will go after her for child support. Make sure you consult an attorney, but in California, leaving a child for a year constitutes abandonment, so she can’t get Ash away from you. Don’t file for adoption, but custody.

              If you go after her by getting the police to file for embezzlement, she will contact you, begging you to withdraw the charges. DO NOT RELENT. That might get her out of the cult if there’s no money left. She will tell you how much she hates you, and that you are ruining her life.

              When you’re ready, you will do what’s necessary. Remember, if you don’t take care of yourself, you can’t take care of anyone else.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Thank you for being here Mish. You have consistently offered MK the best, calmest advice over her few months here at the Bunker. You are a fantastic person.

            • Missionary Kid

              I just hope I’m not too harsh. I feel for her. At least, it appears she has support from her parents.

            • GlibWog

              OH NO Kid.. You were perfect. It’s nice to brainstorm with those that you trust.

              Just talking about my daughter yesterday made me feel better. You gave me great advice.
              Monkey you just have so much on your plate.. Thank God you can come here!

            • GlibWog

              So are you L Wrong.. ( Group Hug..)

            • monkeyknickers

              An awesomer Missionary Kid I’ve never met. 🙂

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Yeah, he sure beats the bike riding duos from the LDS.

            • monkeyknickers

              God I love them. I do.

              I sorta wait around hoping they ring the doorbell so I can CHAT with them.

              But mostly I’ve been getting your garden variety christian peppered with the occasional jehovah’s witness.

              BORING.

            • monkeyknickers

              Well – for starters, love: you can’t offend me. I trust myself enough to separate valid criticism from plain old meanness. Someone once said – how can you not get offended if someone tells you you’re doing a shitty job? And I was thinking . . . . . um . . . . I don’t know . . . . because I don’t WANT to be doing a shitty job? Because the idea of people blowing sunshine up my ass makes me ill??

              I am so grateful that you would take the time to think about my situation. I appreciate all advice. I want to do better. To BE better. To be able to help better. Et cetera.

              Anyhow. 🙂

              The adoption custody thing is right on EXCEPT:

              Native children and their custody are governed by different laws than any white, black, or any non-native child. I 100% – one MILLION percent – agree with the laws put in place (they were lobbied very heavily by native american tribes) – but right now they are kicking me in the ass.

              As far as turning my sister in for stealing my life savings – I don’t know MK – I’m not there yet. Doing so would trigger the 3 strikes law. I can’t put her back in prison.

              I realize my life sounds like an after school special and that I joke around a lot. But it is what it is. I guess Sci pulls in idiots from every walk of life.

              🙂

            • Missionary Kid

              I obviously forgot about the native American aspect. Ohhh yeah. There is a BIG difference. Next, I wasn’t aware of her two strikes. That’s a toughie. The good thing about being in the cult is that she probably won’t be offending. The bad thing is that she’s in the hands of Co$.

              If she scams someone else to make money for the cult, and they go to the cops, she’s dead meat. Unfortunately, Co$ will get rid of her quicker than you can flush a toilet. Unfortunately, too, Co$ isn’t into making amends.

              I wouldn’t want to be in your shoes.

              I sent you a fun email off list. Enjoy.

            • monkeyknickers

              I loved it babycakes. :))) What can you do but laugh. 🙂

              And your advice is absolutely EXACTLY what I should be doing. Save the annoying extra weird shit. 🙂

            • Missionary Kid

              What, annoying extra weird shit from moi? {Never}. *Snickersnort* The advice is worth what you paid for it.

            • monkeyknickers

              You cute smarty, you! 🙂

              !!

            • aquaclara

              You’re a great person, MK, for all the cheers and advice to the other MK! Nice!

            • Missionary Kid

              Naw, like my avatar, everything is fake. IRL, I’m your neighbor who lives in his basement, never mows their lawn, only eats fast food, stockpiles weapons, and listens to Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, and other purveyors of truth 24/7 🙂

              Seriously, it’s always easier to deal with other people’s problems than one’s own. I got it from my dad, and it’s called the Missionary Neurosis.

            • aquaclara

              That’s one neurosis that’s nice to pass along in the family….
              🙂

            • Missionary Kid

              Not the part where your family comes second to trying to take care of others. I don’t ignore my family, but I do ignore my own problems.

            • GlibWog

              Ohhh Monkey.. Honey I feel your pain.. Damn I have got to start coming here.. With my daughter disconnecting from me.. I know.. I know..

              and There ain’t a Damn thing you can do for them without losing your soul. smooches

            • monkeyknickers

              Seriously honey ? Your own daughter?

              A sister is one thing and of course I’m not dismissing that.

              But your CHILD. Your CHILD. I cannot imagine how devastated you must feel.

              What an awful awful mess.

              I mean, I remain optimistic, obviously but still . . .

              that kind of hurt is something I can’t imagine, and selfishly hope to never do so.

              What a fucking crock of shit this cult is . . . .

            • GlibWog

              Oh Yes.. My own daughter.. but guess what. She’s Not A SCN .. she never was.. She just decided on her own that she didn’t want me in her life anymore. It’s been over a year, but has been coming for the last 10. ( She is 44)
              She is a self centered , self absorbed Narcissist ..I dared to say NO to her. She is going through a divorce and requested through the court that I can NEVER see my Grandchildren again.
              She said that I was ” Just one more bitter Old Lady that no one gives a shit about..”
              Yeah.. Nice daughter, huh?
              But I have another daughter who is my best friend. They all live on the other side of the country. ( My younger daughter dismissed her also with the wave of her hands..)
              She is the Queen of Hearts.. ” Off With Their Heads..”
              Thank God my SIL is in my corner.. the Judge threw her request out.
              I have worked my way through it.. the pain now comes and goes.. but Monkey.. I truly understand the pain of your situation because of Ash.
              If she were Legally adopted I know you would feel in a better place. xo You just take care of Yourself..Ash and those twins in your tummy. xox

            • monkeyknickers

              no no no no no no no no.

              oh my god. *

              *(If I believed in one.
              which I don’t but still.

              This makes me sick to my stomach,Glib.

              I can’t even imagine how painful that is.

              And yes – some people are simply born narcissists and will take their grievances out on anybody . . . . but ESPECIALLY the people with whom they are the most comfortable. IE . . . . their mama.

              I have a parent with that syndrome and I feel you, girl.

              You can’t live with ‘ em, and you can’t live without ’em.

              Howsabout I come nab you and we go on vacation to Nova Scotia?? Did you know that some of the oldest fossils on earth are there?? And trillobites too? All I ask is that you’re occasionally willing to strap on an infant in a sheet. SERIOUSLY I WON’T MAKE YOU CHANGE DIAPERS.

              🙂

            • GlibWog

              Nova Scotia.. How utterly wonderful. It would be my honor to change diapers.. Yeah..Let’s run away together..

              Yes Narcissistic Personality Disorder just so poisonous. You being a child of one.. I can’t imagine.

              Do you think your sister has it? Experts have indicated that there is a genetic component.

              If you do think she has it.. I can discuss it with you from a counselor’s point of view.

              My daughter is the most cunning and charming.. absolutely beautiful. Like Movie Star beautiful. She has left a trail of victims in her wake. She will NEVER run out of people to use.

              Very sad.. but thank God I recognized it. .. I will no longer allow her to hurt me the way that she has in the past. It will be on my terms. I am now detached ( with pangs now and then)

            • Xique

              True

            • GlibWog

              Great advice Kid.. You are wise..xo

            • Missionary Kid

              Unfortunately, it’s come at a price. 😉

            • GlibWog

              Lives lessons are a bitch, huh kid? I am sorry.

            • i-Betty

              You’re the best 🙂

            • GlibWog

              Awwwwww Baby Girl.. come sit on my lap.. Good Lord woman how much weight have you gained with this pregnancy.. ??

              ( Both falls on floor giggling ) Monkey on top of me so tummy not bumped.. xoxox
              It’s a Bitch.. I’m sorry .. Damn. Glib

            • monkeyknickers

              I’m embarrassed to say I’ve only gained 25 pounds. :(( The first 4 months were VERY hard for me. I couldn’t keep anything down. I worry constantly that I’ve retarded their mental capacity or . . . something. By all accounts they’re healthy and thriving, but . . . .

            • GlibWog

              xoxox…. I’m glad that they are both healthy and thriving.. I was just teasing.. xo..

            • monkeyknickers

              Oh I know it doll. That’s how come we like each other so. 🙂

            • GlibWog

              Mama Mia.. xooxox smooches..

            • Theo Sismanides

              Guys, tell them about the Indies and that Miscavige has been beating and imprisoning Sea Org members. That might impinge.

          • Theo Sismanides

            Tell her about the Indies and that Miscavige has been beating and imprisoning Sea Org members. That might impinge.

            • monkeyknickers

              I’d love to. I’d also love to tell her that she’s an asshole and I’m gonna come and impinge on her my damn self.

              But I honestly don’t think it’s leader-worship that sucked her in.

              I think it was a safe place to run – much like MK was suggesting above. It’s harder to pry a person out of that.

              Still . . . . who knows. I just really want to lay down and watch 18 episodes of Wild Kratts and NOVA with my teeny tiny 4 year old person and the fetuses.

            • Theo Sismanides

              I see… I know… shit happens. anyway, have a good one with your teeny tiny 4 years old. And the fetuses? Are you pregnant on twins or what? sorry, english is my second language. lol.

            • monkeyknickers

              Ha! Yep – two. And English is my first language (though it might seem otherwise) and I can’t even figure the plural for, ehm, more than one fetus.

              shit! You know who knows actually? John. P. He said to me once . .

              Fetii.

              Which I thought was awesome.

              When I grow up I’m gonna speak English like him. 🙂

            • Theo Sismanides

              Don’t take anyone as an authority in anything until he or she is at least 100 times proven.

              Etymology and spelling variations[edit source | editbeta]

              The word fetus is from the Latin fetus, meaning offspring, bringing forth, hatching of young.[5] It has Indo-European roots related to sucking or suckling.[6]

              Foetus is a variation of the Latin spelling, and has been in use since at least 1594, according to the Oxford English Dictionary, which describes it as “incorrectly written”; it arose as an erroneous hypercorrection, possibly first made by Saint Isidore of Seville in AD 620.[7] The common English spelling in UK and Commonwealth countries, as well as in some other languages (e.g., French), is foetus. In the United States, in the medical/research community internationally, and in Latin, fetus is agreed-upon as the standard spelling.

              Its correct plural is “fetuses”, not “feti”, as Latin fētus is fourth declension and its Latin plural is fētūs.

              Anyway… that’s great! you are having twins! wow!

            • monkeyknickers

              You are officially smarter about English than 90% of the American population, Theo. (Are you Greek?)

              But all the kids who post here are plainly in the 10th percentile. 🙂

              We’re a lucky bunch.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Thanks, I thought I was better than some told me… Anyway, I don’t want to be arrogant but I do speak and write well… I even have an american accent… hahaha!

              I can see that for the kids here. It’s an awesome blog. I take off some charge here, charging against some… you know boys… .we like to fight! LOL! But it’s ok, no hard feelings! We are just testing our skills in Disqus(sions)

              Oh, yes I am Greek.

            • monkeyknickers

              See how smart you are with the awesome word play!!?

            • Missionary Kid

              For once, if John P. wrote feti, he’s possibly wrong if they are girls you’re carrying.

              I hacked away at Latin over 50 years ago. The latin word in masculine singular foetus, plural foeti. Feminine singular would be foeta, and plural foetae.

              In English, Mirriam-Webster says that plural of fetus in the medical dictionary is fe·tus·es or chiefly British foe·tus·es or foe·ti

              but when I Google foeti, it’s masculine plural latin.

              A group of female alumna are alumnae
              A group of male alumnus are alumni.

            • monkeyknickers

              HUH!

              So the plural feminine of foetus is . . . . foetae?

            • Robert Eckert

              That would appear to be correct, except that the oe wasn’t really classical Latin, just pretentious later Latin, so fetae is probably best.

            • monkeyknickers

              This is the awesomest place on earth, this blog. Good job my sister sucked herself into Scientology and not some other cult with less smart critics. !!

              I shall use “fetae”.
              A lot.

            • Missionary Kid

              Yup. That’s what I learned in Latin class, but I had to look it up to confirm it. In medicine though, I believe they use the masculine for both sexes, because they couldn’t tell what sex the babies were before they were born until recently. The masculine and feminine plural are pronounced the same, but written differently.

              I hated Latin, and I still do. How such beautiful, simple, languages like Spanish and Italian could come from Latin is a wonder. For nouns and adjectives, there was masculine, feminine, and neuter singular and plural endings, in 6 cases, and sometimes 7. That means that means that for those words, there’s 18 different endings for nouns and adjectives. In Spanish & Italian, there’s 4. (No neuter). My dislike could well have been the way the teacher, Miss Borders, taught, or perhaps my bad study habits. I would have been better off learning French or Spanish.

            • monkeyknickers

              Sometimes at night when I have a hard time getting to sleep . . . .instead of counting sheep I pick a word and deconstruct it. Like . . . . I mean shit . . . . for example . . . “important”.
              I carve it up and sort it out. 🙂

              So I love Latin. And Greek.

              And Twinkies.

              🙂

          • Xique

            Thank you, I hate to be all woe is me, but I am.

            • monkeyknickers

              And why not, girl. It fucking sucks. I saw this really great interview with Jason Beghe (he is an actor who used to be in Scientology and then left) where he said, it’s not Darfur, but it’s our own little slice of hell.

              I developed an instant incredible crush on this man. 🙂

            • Xique

              Me too 🙂

            • Xique

              Jason ‘s video with Mark Bunker helped me to snap back into myself and say ” no more!!” I love the guy.

        • Poison Ivy

          Ditto what everyone said, glad you’re here. Hang in there.

        • GlibWog

          My heart breaks for you Xique.. (((HUGS))) xoxoxo You come here and we will all give you a soft place to land.

          • Xique

            You’re very kind.

            • GlibWog

              I know what it is like to Love someone when it goes against everything you believe in Xique.

              I lived with an Alcoholic too many years because, ” I loved him.” We will not judge you here Xique.. I would kick anyone’s Ass to the moon if you are not responded to with kindness..

              ( We all Will)… Vent, Cry, Scream.. laugh..whatever you have to do. YOU TAKE CARE OF YOU.. and come here..xo Glib..

            • Xique

              I do realize we are at the end. Its possibly the one thing that will get his attention, is if I leave him. I know we can’t go on as we are now, with irreconcilable differences.

            • GlibWog

              Well I ended up leaving my Alcoholic and That got his attention big time. Although we are no longer together he has been sober almost 40 years.

              Remember Xique.. Pity isn’t Love…

              You know honey..

              When hurt, anger leads to Apathy.. Like you don’t care what he does..

              ( The $ alone would do it for me) When the screaming stops, the fighting stops, the tears dry up.. No matter what you do or say.. He continues to do the same shit..

              and one day you wake up and you just don’t care anymore.

              YOU get mentally able.. prepare for that now.. tuck some $ away.. Are you working? Keep your $ away from him..No joint accounts.. etc.

              and also honey remember.. There are people that really care for you.. Your well being. You just keep coming back here.. and we’ll talk.. xo Glib

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      I am so sorry for what you have gone through. I personally don’t understand how Anyone is left with the price points in the last two decades being astronomical, as well as submitting yourself to all this sec checking And having to pay for it as well. You know, if Ethics wants to do some fishing, you are not supposed to have to pay for any of it. If you have auditing that includes confessional style processes, then yes.

      Miscavige has gone out of his way to change or “disappear” anything that slows his color of money tributaries. He also seems to have accomplished keeping his newer marks from knowing what the actual policies and history of scientology are, for the same reason.

      I know your heart can’t be unbroken, but I hope you will find a happier future very soon ….with someone who cares about You.

      • Xique

        Thank you .

    • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

      Yes we remember him.

      Another $475,000 and we at Flag would have had him Clear to the full EP.

      • Xique

        Exactly,another half a mil and he’s there.

      • GlibWog

        promises fuckin promises.. It’s always around the corner..

        • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

          And it will always be just around the corner and that is why Scientology works.

          • GlibWog

            Awwwwwwww 8 Gotta Love Ya.. xoxxo .. How bout you and I splash around in the OIL together..

    • Theo Sismanides

      Hi Xique, is he still in? Maybe he can have a look into the Internet and find out all the crimes of Miscavige against good willed people and SO members. Do you know about the existence of the Indie movement? Indies deliver the Bridge at much lower prices and are winning. Maybe your husband will find a way out from that tyrannical church of Miscavige.

      • Xique

        I’ve told him as much as can possibly tell him, but so far he is sticking it out, for “selfish reasons”. One of us will have to call off the relationship, but for now neither one us wants to make the move.We ‘ve spent our lives together and so it’s going to be sad for both of us if we end it. Anyway thank you for your input . Yes he knows about the Indie movement / SPs.

        • Theo Sismanides

          Hahaha, Xique, we are not SP! The real SP is Miscavige. I think you can help him. Have you done any Scientology? Have you read anything? If you haven’t then certainly there is a problem because you don’t share the same reality. I don’t know you but all scientology was supposed to be was to make a person aware that he/she is a spiritual being. If you can have that then go ahead and read some books. You will be able to approach him easier and his affinity for you will grow bigger. Then at a certain point of time you will be able to become more cause over your relationship.

          A very good book is the 2nd Dynamic. Compiled by Hubbard’s wife Mary Sue. It will give you some fair knowledge of what is about relationships, some basics of Scientology about children and such things.

          • Xique

            I’ve read plenty of LRH , and those days are over now. Over.

            • Theo Sismanides

              I see…. if you don’t mind, what is it then that made you stop creating on that? Is it the situation your husband has with the church or you just lost interest yourself. I don’t know either if you ever got audited. But when they charge so much in the church how can one get sufficient auditing to some adequate win.

              See a person just reading books doesn’t help much. After a while life comes in with its problems and starts chewing on you. Auditing and training are for that, to help one acquire skills and get rid of things so they can confront life easier. But at those prohibiting prices who can afford this? It’s insane, Xique. And they are lying (the church) saying they want to help people. They can’t help or they don’t help as much as they take in as money. Their exchange is criminal.

            • Xique

              I was on staff, I’ve had auditing and training, been to flag etc etc . SCN never enhanced my life, if anything it complicated the hell out of my life and left me in a tight financial condition or what you call a liability condition or worse. No more lrh for me, no more .

            • Theo Sismanides

              I see… I have been on staff too in a mission and then Sea Org. I can understand as i have seen the dedication of staff and how little they got in exchange. The only thing they “got” was the promise of the “holy land”. They were never told their rights much less their rights were never protected. I have seen ex-staff lose their houses in mortgages even and this was terrible to me. I could never reg a person in mortgage and debts. Unfortunately many have dealt not with Scientology and the Tech but with the intermediaries of the “Tech” (actually their opinions on the Tech) so they went broke or arc-broken. I am sorry to hear all this.

          • Xique

            He thinks indies are SPs , not me. I don’t use the term to describe people.

          • Poison Ivy

            Ron and Mary Sue. Yeah, that was a marriage I’d hold up as a great example.

            • Theo Sismanides

              why not? how do you know what really happened?

            • Poison Ivy

              Um, it is well documented by witnesses. After years of utter devotion to him, her husband threw her under the bus and let her go to jail for his criminal organization – and refused to talk to her again. Sorry, that ain’t a healthy relationship.

            • Theo Sismanides

              That’s one version of it. In any case Hubbard and Mary Sue had some great times and adventures which are not just documented by “witnesses” they are documented by LIFE!

            • Robert Eckert

              That’s not “one version”. That’s REALITY. It doesn’t matter whether you agree with it or not.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              God damn you Theo! This thread was nice….and terribly sad, but nice. Now I’m pissed again. You have a gift, a real talent. You are so blinded by your own “wisdom”.

            • GlibWog

              Theo.. Are You Fuckin Kidding Me? Good God Man.. READ.. Research.. Put down the Damn Scientology Books and Read what really is going on..

              I’m a Never IN and I swear to God I know more of the Background than you do.. I’m NOT here to have a Pissin Contest with you..

              Hubbard was a total Bull Shit Liar.. How many times Married? How many mistresses? He was a Creep. His family hated him. He died in a Trailer! He Hid from the law on his Stupid Boat. All he was was a Scifi writer. Period.

              IT IS ALL BULL SHIT.. IT IS ALL A LIE..
              Operation Snow White. …. ??? Was Documented by Witnesses. .Just READ and Research. That’s all.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Is that all you are researching? No doubt you named yourself a GlibWog. Change your name and start a new life.

              Hubbard (the identity known as L. Ron Hubbard so that Earthlings had some human identity to attribute the tech to and not a god) has nothing to do anymore with the tech. The tech is the important thing, not how many vistarils Hubbard took before he died, why he took them, who gave them to him etc. etc.

              Don’t fall into the traps of this planet. Look for yourself and look for the important things not the unimportant ones.

            • Rex

              Theo, I will be civil if you are only talking about your beliefs, but if you are defending the practices (such as the documented abuse of Mary Sue) then you will be defeated.

            • Theo Sismanides

              I explained that already. Mary Sue and Hubbard had more than a great marriage. That was proven by years of a life together, creating together. I don’t know what happened in the end. And I am not obliged to believe anyone. I simply don’t know so I don’t take the pains to find out something so obscure.. I stick to the legacy the left. Have you read the SECOND DYNAMIC book compiled by Mary Sue? My gf read it and she was blown out just by that book.

              Now this book is banned. So, we know who(s) did Mary Sue a bad service. It was the Int Mgmt with Miscavige leading them (and I don’t know who behind Miscavige) who did that. And that’s proven because Mary Sue survived LRH but she didn’t survive Miscavige.

            • Robert Eckert

              It was L. Ron Hubbard himself who threw her out with the garbage. Deal with it.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Same tone level… Oh poor Robert. Come on let’s give it a try and see if we can get you out of this 2.5 band, buddy! Give it a try, it’s worthwhile and therapeutic. They are called Mood Drills. Pretend you can be at 4.0 with me and be Enthusiastic about something I said or you are saying to me! Come on!

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          I’m at a loss for intelligent words here Xique. It would be so so sad for the marriage to end over fucking Scientology. Fuck you posthumously LRH! To be together your whole lives and have something so utterly craptastic pull you two apart is just tragic. Not that I’m telling you anything you don’t know. Hurting here for you, that’s for sure.

          • Xique

            Thanks a lot for your thoughts, you’re very nice.

  • aquaclara

    Apparently, “spiritual” doesn’t mean what I think it means, either, when Lisa McPherson’s “treatment”, Kyle’s medicine withheld, and Nancy Many’s horrendous time in the parking deck at the Fort Harrison were delivered by “The Scientology spiritual headquarters in Florida”.
    In this backwards world of Hubbardy – Dubbardity spiritual ecclesiasticalness, I now know what tax-exempt should look like. $$$$ in arrears. Pay up.

  • Jvm3

    “What problem could your help be to another?”
    >> If my help creates a problem for them, is it really helping them?

    “What help from others would others rather not confront?”
    >> The answer is either truth or reality, whichever one we’re supposed to be mocking up here.

    “What motion has helped others?”
    >> I want to say a mad dash for the fire exit, but something tells me there’s just more LRH bookshelves behind that door..

    “Who have you failed to control?”
    >> Benjamin Franklin… from leaving my wallet! No, seriously.. I’m broke.

    “Get the idea of you not solving a problem of your own.”
    >> Got it.

    “What two things can you confront?”
    >> Maybe I could smash these two soup cans.

    “What solution could you make stick?”
    >> Shit, you mean you have more cans?

    “What self determined changes have you made this life?”
    >> Breaking the cans was the ONE thing I had ready to go for this question. Can I pass for now?

    “Point out something another could get others to desire.”
    >> Freedom? Refund? no? Ok, let’s go again…

  • PickAnotherID

    “Who have you failed to control?”
    “Get the idea of you not solving a problem of your own.”

    These are the key questions, aimed to develop the mindset ‘control’ of others is acceptable, and acceptance of others solutions to your problems over your own is completely necessary. Everything else is window dressing to mask this.

  • i-Betty

    Voilà!

  • Sherbet

    Ms. Grammar Person wishes to point out that, in addition to the clunky language in these questions, “Get the idea of you not solving a problem…” should be “Get the idea of your not solving a problem…” It may be a silly distinction, but, to me, it’s another red flag: This stuff is less than scientific.

    • ze moo

      Poor english is the least of Lroons crimes.

      • Sherbet

        Agreed, ze moo, but it underscores the “this is crap” factor.

        • WildaBeast

          Also keep in mind that, when Elron was a kid, the education system still really emphasized grammar as one of the basics. The distinction between “you not solving a problem” and “your not solving a problem” is one that probably goes over the head of the majority of college graduates today, but in the mid-20th century, it was the sort of distinction any kid in middle or high school could make.

          • Poison Ivy

            Good point! (My grandmother used to correct the grammar and send back thank you letters from my cousins – she was half a generation older than the Hubs. That’s how seriously she took it!)

        • ze moo

          Indeed, when ever I see bad grammar and cognitive dissonance in writing I check to see that my wallet is safe.

          • Sherbet

            I always chuckle when I receive misspelled spam. Yeah, “Disny world” emailed me and wants money, so I’ll send it pronto. If you’re going to have a scam, at least dress it up a little. That goes for cos’s flyers, too.

            • ze moo

              I attended the 3rd annual Nigerian Email Scam Conference and learned very much.

              http://j-walk.com/other/conf/

            • Sherbet

              Laughing my head off at that, ze moo. That’s a keeper. Oh, here’s my bank account number. Ready?

    • Robert Eckert

      I suppose that depends on whether the idea you are supposed to get is the non-solving of the problem, or the idea of you, in the act of not solving a problem.

      • Sherbet

        You say potahto, I say potayto.

      • i-Betty

        Head…spinning…!

    • Poison Ivy

      Hubbard made up grammar as well as words and terms and tall tales.

      • deselby

        It seems to me that Hubbard’s word-making was partly that he was fairly creative, but mostly served as a way of rejecting academia and/or mainstream thought. I wonder if he had a severe learning disability of some kind (or maybe just chronic laziness) such that every word and concept he made up was a big middle finger to all the wogs he couldn’t effectively compete with. There a lot of creative people who march to their own drum, but Hubbard’s path had a kind of nasty me-against-them bitterness to it.

        • Poison Ivy

          Personally I believe he was an incredibly lazy bastard. No, not in that he didn’t work “hard” and long (and another IMHO, I think he had that bi-polar streak where he went off on grandiose creating jags during the manic periods). But more to the point, he thought everything that came out of his mouth or typewriter was pure genius from the first word. It is not. Yes, he was very creative – and creative people make up stories and even words! But truly dedicated creative people have what is called in the process “rigor,” which means that after inspiration comes perspiration – researching, rewriting, editing, getting input, shaping, honing, fact-checking, footnoting. Hubbard NEVER did this. He even admits this problem in his Affirmations. His attitude was “My first drafts are always genius.” And he was extremely rageful and bitter (that vengeful narcissistic rage) when people did NOT accept his sloppy first passes as genius.

          I think “The world hasn’t recognized my genius” was one of Hubbard’s driving motivators from the time he was a little boy. His engine ran on “I’ll show them all!” He never bowed to authority, which meant making up his own grammar as opposed to rewriting or reviewing; making up his own words when he couldn’t be bothered to search for the fitting word or phrase, and breaking rule after rule because they could not possibly apply to him.

          You can call this kind of person a “maverick” – or you could call them a psychopathic narcissist. Given the longterm fallout of his legacy, I choose to call him the latter.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            His family on his mother’s side were very creative if you’ve ever read about them. He learned he could garner attention in theater plays on stage; there was poetry, songs, but especially acting and story telling. He had many disabilities; his mother was a teacher so helped him as she could. His teen years all his physical and mental symptoms blossomed. He really could not comprehend math.

            His only subject he did well in was English, but even that only in the Essay subcategory.

            • Poison Ivy

              There’s a frustration in being a genius and having disabilities that prevent you from flourishing. But the way through that for a person who is not a full-blown narcissist is to do the best you can and working harder. For LRH, it was rage and revenge and taking his marbles and making his own game.
              In America, we tend to aggrandize that kind of independent initiative. And it can be a positive thing. But LRH made it poison.

            • Yes, he was a self-made man who never completed the job.

            • Unex Skcus

              ^^^ Brilliant 🙂

            • Unex Skcus

              “He really could not comprehend math.”

              {Rubbish. Everyone knows Dr Ron was a nuclear physicist.}

          • Robert Eckert

            His made-up words were so un-creative, though. “Havingness”? Battlefieldspork / Missionspork has fun with the “breathe-gas” and “translatophone” and “robobrain”. There is this classic parody:

            For 3 human days, Johnny had been on the scary side of the moon where the danger aliens were known to roam. He opened his space backpack to do an inventory; 1 sleep blanket, a flask holder of liquid drink water, and 4 holder containers of nutrition food. Through his vision glasses, Johnny saw a colony of danger aliens and feared they might catch the scent of his nutrition food. The danger aliens were out on patrol patrol hunting for nutrition food. Johnny thought with his mind brain “must bury the nutrition food! I must bury the nutrition food!”

            • Poison Ivy

              That’s a Hubbard parody? Hilarious.

        • scnethics

          As thought-stopping cliches are common in cults, I think Hubbard did it purposefully. I’m with Jon Atack: Hubbard knew what he was doing.

      • WhereIsSHE

        And don’t forget his FAKE NAVY, P.I. (complete with FAKE-NAVY-UNIFORMS)

        • Poison Ivy

          Yes! Because the real Navy didn’t understand him (boo hoo)!

          • ze moo

            The Navy understood Lron all too well. They decided at his court martial that he needed a keeper. Someone to supervise him.

            Of course, that was before he and a Lt Cmdr in the Coast Guard stopped Robert Oppenheimer and Leo Slizard and Edward Teller from overthrowing the US government.

  • monkeyknickers

    Claire is like . . . . super smart and well spoken and stuff.
    Plus she has great skin. And plainly is a kick ass mom type.

    So!! That’s it – I’m sending her my infants. I hope they accept C.O.D.
    I’ll throw in a CD and my copy of Helen Keller’s autobiography and this cool rock I found.

    • WildaBeast

      Remember to put air holes in the box you ship them in! *nods wisely* That part is very important.

      • monkeyknickers

        Right! Good thinking Wilda! I remember doing that when I had a hamster.

        See how early childhood animal husbandry totally prepares for life as a parent? Well, a parent who ships her infants FedEx Ground (WAY less expensive) to a nice lady who has great grammar?

        • WildaBeast

          Shipping by ground is probably safer too, unless you really pay through the nose to get them shipped in a pressurized cabin.

          • monkeyknickers

            AND WHY WOULD I DO THAT.

            :))

      • i-Betty

        Hahahaha! You’re all hilarious! I love you all so much 😀

    • Sherbet

      Since she and Marc already have three boys, I’m sure they’d welcome two daughters.

      (PS: You make me laugh, ‘knickers!)

      • monkeyknickers

        AH HA!

        That’ll round the family out nicely! Thx, Sherbet.

        Incidentally . . . . whenever I see you on here, I think of Baskin Robbins, where we got to go every Saturday on the way to Powder River to visit our fathers/uncles/brothers/etc. Every time I ordered Rainbow Sherbet. EVERY DAMN TIME.

        IT WAS AWESOME.

        • Sherbet

          Associating me with something awesome is…awesome!

        • aquaclara

          Twinny talk here, MK. How are the little monkeys doing? How is mama monkey doing?
          If you were here (where I am), or I were there (where you are), I would show you a deliciously yummy before and after pic of twins enjoying their first birthday cake. Priceless. Worth every minute of frosting on the floor, on the walls, and in their hair. They smelled so good, just like cake!
          First year flies by. WHEN do they come, anyway???
          Sending you much love. And soft pillows to rest on…and lots of ice cream!

          • monkeyknickers

            Oh Aqua . . . . they are hale and healthy and big for their twinness and age. But as of yesterday, Delphine turned the proper direction and Ruby is breech. Breach? Huh. IDK which is which.

            But I am TIRED AS FUCK. But I went to Goodwill today and found a TON of stuff for them. So I’m feeling a little better about their arrival. My health is starting to fail, so we’re gonna bring ’em in early . . . . the OB’s target two is mid October. That gives me 8 weeks to get my shit together. 🙂

            And I got your cyber love !!

            Thanks, you 🙂

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Damn girl!

            • aquaclara

              First baby pic! Yeah! All the best to the baby monkeys!

  • Eclipse-girl

    I have been reading this series and wondering where a person would be on the bridge at this point. They have spent at least 50K and the might be at grade 1. That is assuming they haven’t had KRs, or been “out ethics” and resisted all the pleas for money. Thank you for finally stating where a person is.

    I can see how a person might get hooked on auditing. It is a counseling session. Counseling / Therapy usually does make you feel good when you exit. It is also a lot cheaper.

    • Jvm3

      I’ve always assumed that’s where even good, intelligent people get hooked in. It’s a lot like talk therapy and can have instant results. I wonder, has any scientologist ever properly differentiated between psychology and psychiatry and commented on that publicly? Their war on “psyches” seems to include both but really shouldn’t, since psychologists don’t prescribe the meds that are responsible for every single murder since ww2.

      • Poison Ivy

        Yeah but you know, Psychologists are spreading lies and superstitions and shit. {Unlike Scientology, which deals with FACTS!}

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      If they differentiated it might bust into the scam of more money, make more money.
      At least when you go to talk therapy you don’t get regged for IAS and Superpower and Ideal Org donations on top of your regular fee.

      • Eclipse-girl

        I benefitted from therapy. I even benefitted by psychiatric meds. I needed them at the time. I no longer need them. I paid for the services rendered and wasn’t hit up for more and more money. As I decided that I was no longer getting any benefit from therapy or from meds, both were slowly discontinued. I still respect both the spsychiatrist and therapist. Neither one of them calls me fore money.

        • Couch_Incident

          And I bet that they don’t constantly harass you by phone, mail, and unannounced visits to come back for more services…

      • Foxrenard

        I paid for IAS and Superpower… I always remember the “Now, you have to take the next step” –For the Ideal Org, I wasn’t in there anymore 🙂

  • Foxrenard

    The registrars made us take credits to the bank for that. I took the whole package from moron to clear. Everybody was in debts at the Mission where I was, taking credits for services. Most of us were overwhelmed by debts. I remember of one guy who was a millionaire and could pay his own bridge completely. Then, the registrars had a brilliant idea. When a bank didn’t want to lend to one of us because our income wasn’t high enough or we had already to much debts, the registrars started to ask this millionaire to lend us money. So he lent money to many of us for our bridge and so helped us at very low interests rate if any (I am not yet sure everybody gave him back the money they borrowed, and me I could get my credit from the bank)… One decade or 2 later, in his late 50s-60s, I saw him at Flag, he didn’t have money anymore, had heart problems and nobody gave a shit about him. He died a few years after that from a heart attack.

    • Mark

      Atrocious. Scientology discards people like used Kleenex.

      • Eclipse-girl

        Most people properly dispose of used tissues. I am not sure that is true of $cientology.

      • Foxrenard

        I think as long as you have nice resources and money, you’re the best and then when you get in trouble, you’re unknown.

        • Mark

          “Persons unbellyfeel $cientology doubleplus ungood – unpersons.”

          • Once_Born

            Thoughtcrime!

        • Robert Eckert

          Once I lived the life of a millionaire…

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3mtsBFe2Us

          • Sherbet

            That’s one of my all-time favorite EC albums, Rob-E!

    • WildaBeast

      I don’t know if that is more chilling or heart-breaking. How utterly awful.

    • q-bird

      merde!!!

    • i-Betty

      Oh, the poor man 🙁

      • Foxrenard

        At this time, I thought something like “Bastards!!! When the guy had money, you were all after him and then when he was broke, you just treated him like a tramp”!
        Personally, I am humane and I didn’t understand how a self-claimed “Humanitarian Religion” could behave like that. That’s hundreds of things like that made me start to question myself about scientology.

    • Sunny Sands

      Thanks for the testimonial, it’s a story that needs to be heard.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      This is a reoccuring story of sales vulturism in scientology circles. A millionaire doesn’t last long in Miscavige’s sales room. You have to Hundreds of Millions on up.

      Another new item I saw today was that Miscavige has his customers signing up for Monthly Automatic Debits for his IAS Golden Scam. I think too many of the whales left are tired of being DM’s personal bank and getting burned by those who didn’t pay back the loan. Of course, I don’t weep for them. If you give a loan to someone who can’t get it at a real bank because they’re near or in bankruptcy, giving someone a loan who’s family has to moved to some hole in the wall because they lost their home, all pouring their money into Miscavige’s scam, and now they want to do More debt Not for housing or food or education or health insurance for their family….they want it for their next scientology fix. So no, don’t feel bad for those whales who have done this in the past.

  • scnethics

    When you do this counseling in the context Claire describes, where you think you are taking steps toward unlocking mystical abilities, it really feels good to get through each question. Of course, if you answered any of these questions 5, 10 or (many) more times and then found out you were done with it, you’d be pretty happy, too!

  • Silence of the Clams

    I was just told by a friend of mine, who is still an semi-scilon, that they were instructed to only keep lights on within visible areas of the org. Another words, if you could see it from the street, put a light on, otherwise, turn everything off. He told me the place has been dead for some time but when he heard that, he said it seemed pretty obvious they couldn’t pay the bills anymore.

    Anyone else hearing anything like this?

    • Mark

      Oh yes – Shortarse has had to downgrade his caviare from Beluga to Sevruga. These are hard times for everyone.

      Seriously, I hope they really are that cash-strapped: it betokens desperation at all levels of the cult.

      • WildaBeast

        There was something on Mike Rinder’s blog about a new building going up at the LA complex – they’re building it in the parking lot. Because, apparently, the parking lot is so empty that putting a building up on it is no problem in terms of people accessing the space.

        • Mark

          Yes – Tiny Dick’s “edifice-complex” again. I hope it ends up with him chewing bricks.

          • WildaBeast

            Mmmmm, tasty! I wonder, if you’re going to chew bricks, do you just bite off a hunk, like you would with a chocolate bar, or do you grind them first, like wheat kernels to flour?

            • Mark

              Shortarse is tough, but tough – he bites off huge chunks, when he isn’t swallowing breeze-blocks whole!

              How I wish they’d build something large and immovable on top of him.

            • WildaBeast

              Oh, they have. Or rather, he’s built it on top of himself, and it’s called the abuses Scientology has perpetrated in the last 27 years. Right now it’s hanging over his head like an avalanche, just waiting to hit him like a ton of…bricks.

            • Mark

              I can hardly wait…

            • ze moo

              Does that mean he uses sandpaper for toilet paper??

            • Mark

              No, that’d be sissy – he uses carborundum paper – coarse grade!

            • ze moo

              The really tough use cubic boron nitrate.

            • Mark

              I think you meant boron nitride? But boron nitrate’s good too: a stainless-steel mould-release spray – so soothing on the days when DM gets plover’s egg-bound…

              (Please don’t send me scurrying back to Wikipedia again!)

            • ze moo

              It must take incredible OT powers to coat your colon with Titanium Nitride. Does ethylene glycol make a good enema??

            • Mark

              I suspect DM’s titanic OT bottom could be coated with ‘TiNite’ by cathode-arc deposition or electron beam heating. But ethylene glycol would evaporate in the highly-charged vacuum.

              Still, I agree he deserves an antifreeze enema, as a spiritually frozen tightass.

            • q-bird

              tough guy all right – brick eatin’ and then… inevitably.

          • i-Betty

            ‘Edifice-complex’ – so clever! You’re funny AND brilliant, Mark!

            • Mark

              And you’re nice AND very kind, Betty!

    • zoxim

      The other day I was using Google Earth to check out Scientology locations at street view. Using the list of outposts in Europe from one of their websites I was hard pressed to find evidence of the existence of many of them. They either are gone or are not clearly marked. I did notice one thing consistently on the ones I found (in both Europe and the US). No people visible and there more often than not is a single light on in one of the upstairs rooms. Just one. It’s eerie. It’s got to be some policy to have a single light burning to make it appear as though something is happening. Another lie they tell themselves I guess.

      • Veritas

        Very interesting!! Wish we had webcams on all the ideal orgs! We could count the visitors per day.

    • Robert Eckert

      Miscavige has gotten rid of nearly 4,000 semi-scilons…

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    I am sorry this is long. I had to write this out. It’s worse than you think, again. I’m stunned.
    Just when I’m positive nothing can surprise me, I read Rinder’s Big Brother thread. It was the information revealed in the commentors, one after another, that had me reeling. It’s taken me a bit to put all the pieces together, or play connect the dots once again in the scientology puzzle.
    There are many parts, but it ALL stems from David Miscavige’s paranoia after Lisa McPherson.

    1) DM has since consistently committed age discrimination by removing large groups of employees who he feels are old enough to possibly get ill or die while on Flag premises. He will boot groups overnight, either kicked to the curb or dumped to PAC (L.A.) given menial jobs or stashed in the bowels of an RPF. Discrimination that causes harm and damage.

    2) DM has additionally discriminated against people with disabilities or physical conditions. Besides terminal illness, anyone with any chronic condition or illness is cast out and not allowed back in at Flag, or Any of the Tampa Bay orgs and missions. Some sent off to PAC (now has reputation of Dumping Grounds!)

    This additionally would affect who would be allowed to participate in some of the Super Power running around a pole, or gryoscopes or other possible machines. This might explain why is moving regular auditing and training over to the Super Power Building. Most of the VIP Super Power big donors who are supposed to have reservations to be the first in line are Senior Citizens or close to it, combined with constant stress, highly likely to have Some physical condition. Is he making exceptions so they won’t Refund? This also enrages me because it is probably a Big part of the reason why So many scientologists die from cancer or other and so young…No One wants to go to a doctor to get a diagnosis that would mean Instantly being barred from doing their OT Levels. This is evil, yes. But it is also blatant Discrimination that causes harm and damage.

    3) DM is discriminating against people with mental disabilities. This one is riddled with irony. So much of courses and auditing at Flag deal with “spirits attached to one’s bodies or bothering a person”. DM has ordered everyone at Flag to throw out Anyone who makes comments about such spirits or anything that sounds “Delusional”. What in sam hell? This includes out of auditing sessions or even IN session? One person got blackballed and told not to set foot back in for saying “I think I can fly”. Well, this is not even sci cray cray. In fact, there’s a friggin big selling Song about that “feeling”. This has to be yet another reason for higher incidents of people going nuts or actually Glad to not be on OT levels. Oh my. This must Also be the reason why all those “success stories” I hear that sound so friggin’ Lame compared to the usual. If they did, they would be banished from the kingdom. I can’t explain to non sci’s how this has to be driving both public and staff bat shit crazy. It explains why those still in are so terrified of Facebook friends and why those still stuck in this asylum will disconnect from Anyone without even questioning the reason why. Discrimination again causing immense mental damage.

    Miscavige is gathering all into his web at Flag . Only those who have passed his criteria for approval are allowed within his parameters. They are his Prisoners of War now. The level of insanity is even worse that I knew. The inexplicable has been explained. Sheer evil madness.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      No matter What you do, Miscavige, justice will prevail…game over.

      http://i41.tinypic.com/2djorrm.jpg

    • WildaBeast

      Um…I want to upvote, because it’s new information and that’s good to have, but I’m so damn appalled…

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        I would give a link, but honestly, the jargon is very thick on this particular thread.

        • WildaBeast

          Mm, thanks then. If you gave it, I would click it, and then I’d be trying to translate and would end up totally late for work due to being too far down the rabbit hole to look at the time.

          • WhereIsSHE

            I can only take so much of the comments section over there. I appreciate hearing so many former cult members’ experiences, but I have to confess that the FAKE NAVY references, and the REDEFINED WORDS NONSENSE rapidly take a great toll on my ability to continue on, and, at times, even to empathize.

            Like… now that you have FINALLY ADMITTED TO YOURSELF how HORRIBLE THINGS ARE… why can’t you see how HORRIBLE THINGS WERE ALL ALONG.

            “RON was a great friend…[blahblah, batshit-clam-speak, blahblahblah]….”

            There is only so much double-speak I can tolerate.

            Having said that, I am glad that THDNE posted here about this topic. I was reading that same post (which is all about DM’s current paranoia, much of which stems from how dangerously he screwed up the “handling” of Lisa McPherson), and was hoping that someone (who has the “inside” insight to discuss it intelligently) would bring it to the attention of the Bunkerites.

            • Poison Ivy

              “Like… now that you have FINALLY ADMITTED TO YOURSELF how HORRIBLE THINGS ARE… why can’t you see how HORRIBLE THINGS WERE ALL ALONG.”

              There is a thing in addiction studies called “euphoric recall” http://www.addictionhelpcenter.com/how-does-euphoric-recall-contribute-to-relapse/

              If we are inclined to view “the prison of belief” as a form of addiction in itself, it would make sense that those still clinging with their bloody fingernails to the illusion of Ron’s Greatness would remember mostly the euphoric early days when they felt they had finally got “the answer,” and not the awful misery of the intermittent reinforcement, the suppression of self, the paranoia…etc.

    • i-Betty

      Jesus, Hole. The panic, the fear of failure, of coming up against another of DM’s arbitrary personal whims; it must be all-pervading. It’s ethnic cleansing by any other name. It’s ruthless. It’s a mental bloodbath.

      I can’t express how icy cold your analysis has made me feel. Those poor, poor dupes.

      David Miscavige, I hate you.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        This per Rinder is All due to his paranoia boost after the Lisa McPherson death at Flag. Remember, he not only was at Flag, he was “directing” instructions on her handling. Now, I would add that there have been Other mysterious deaths too, and incidents like Nancy Cartwright’s (Bart Simpson voice) fiance, Steve Brackett, who jumped from a bridge after Flag services. There are quite a few others That We Know About so far.

        • Poison Ivy

          That German woman with the burns in her head comes to mind….

        • monkeyknickers

          Wait – WHAT?

          Wow. I’ve said this about 16 times today but . . . . . WTFF

      • monkeyknickers

        He’s a fuck.

        And SO STUPID. Christ! I’ve watched that Koppel interview twice now and the guy can’t form a cogent thought. It really is beginning to astonish me that all the devious masterminds of the world are just TOTAL morons whose sole “advantage” over others is that they are simply WILLING TO ACT LIKE DICKS.

        That’s it. They’ll do it. The rest of us will continue doing the crossword and choosing not to enslave and annihilate innocent people.

        Jesus.

      • GlibWog

        I HATE YOU TOO DAVID MISCAVIGE

    • Sunny Sands

      As far as the aging of the super powerz clientele, if you were 50 years old when you gave at the beginning, you’d be on Medicare at age 65 by now.

      Very interesting about kicking folks to the curb who don’t measure up. Or even those professing loony ideas. So we were expecting compassion from the cult? It all boils down to the money. We take your money and tell you crazy OTIII stuff, then when you parrot it back, we kick you out (and keep your money). Sea Org might need medical care? You’re kicked out. That’s why they always need fresh meat bodies in the shop, both public and sea org. Eventually everyone will be off loaded.

    • Orglodyte

      Wow, #2 is such a great point! When I was in, I would go to enormous lengths to not show cold symptoms, because if I did, it would become a very expensive ethics-treated cold that would go away anyway in a week. I would have ignored more serious symptoms, tried to believe they were unimportant — the penalty for getting sick in Scn is ridiculous unnecessary handlings that can seriously delay life and Bridge progress. I think you’re on to something here, THDNE.

      • Poison Ivy

        Wasn’t it revealed somewhere that Tom Cruise won’t come out of his house or show his face if he’s even got a cold, etc? Because he’s OT, he’s not allowed to be ill, and can’t be perceived by others as being fallible?
        Can’t recall where I read that. Media Lush would probably know the source !

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        If you started having a reoccuring pain somewhere that came and went, but getting worse, how many months would you wait before you saw a doctor? Would you Only see a scientology medical person, such as their chiropractors or D.O.’s? You don’t have to answer this, but it would make a difference to know if you were at Flag, or even PAC, rather than say an outpost mission somewhere. Thanks for anything you can answer.

        • Orglodyte

          Hmmm, I’m finding it hard to put myself back in the mindset! You’ve led me to reconsider my comment, as regards myself. For example, I recall having serious vertigo once, and I went straight to a neurologist. Chiropractors for back pain, yes, but I didn’t trust any of their alternative cures. I wasn’t as deep into the auxiliary woo-woo as many others I knew.
          Maybe some others have stories? I certainly saw a lot of people try to handle medical issues with auditing, Scn chiro stuff, alternative cancer cures. Personally, I hid colds, and for more worrisome stuff went to a real doctor. I just didn’t get the org involved. PTS and illness was one of the first things I quietly stopped believing in while in. Thanks for getting me to look!

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Thanks. Now I’m wondering if anyone on Flag’s lines is ordered to Only see a scientologist doctor of whatever kind. If so, I sure would like to see a copy of That FO (Flag Order) or whatever flavor order from Miscavige.

      • monkeyknickers

        God – what if a virulent but ultimately totally harmless tummy bug was introduced to the canteen at Flag, and everybody was sick at the same time!!

        The mental gymnastics required to get around THAT one would be pretty impressive.

        The whole place would shut down while staff waited to get in to see the Ethic officer (who would frequently need to use the bathroom)

        Hmm.

        Actually it surprises me that this hasn’t already happened on some scale. Especially with how closely they pack people into rooms and buildings,

    • Missionary Kid

      It will be interesting to see the first time (if he ever does) he turns down an elderly whale’s request to do something. I’m willing to bet that he’ll find an excuse to put them at a lower condition so they can’t show up at Clearwater.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        You can ask over at Mike Rinder’s blog if any of them know if those elderly pushed off on the ice floes were one of the wealthy whales or not. Or one with say, some health condition.

        • Missionary Kid

          That would be a good place to do it, but that’s a rabbit hole I don’t want to go down. My time is getting limited.

        • Captain Howdy

          No way is D.M going to intentionally beach a whale. The obvious solution would be to send someone to their mansion to audit them. I’ve read they do this. First of all, it makes the whale feel special, and secondly, it prevents the whales from going to the Orgs and seeing how empty they are.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            That’s what I was thinking, Cap. But this sounds to me like DM is seriously paranoid. I mean, as long as he has Tom, Cartwright, Presley, John, and just 100 whales, he’s good.
            Those who only have a million or two must be already broke and it doesn’t go far or long in scientology land these days. As Steely Dan sez, “Throw Back the Little Ones”

            So…..next time we see or hear a scientologist sounding DELUSIONAL, please be good solid citizens, folks and report this person to the Ethics Section of FLAG. David Miscavige wants to make sure the Instant anyone sounding Delusional is kicked OUT and for good.

            You hear that, good citizens. Report them at the First Sign of any Delusional comments or behavior Immediately to: (MAA = Ethics officer, Master at Arms)

            ATTN: HCO DIV I, Public MAA
            Flag Service Organization
            503 Cleveland St
            Clearwater, FL 33755

            Do it for the Greatest Good! Do it for Dave!

            • Studious Judious

              I think David Miscavige is delusional and should not be allowed at Flag.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              shhhhhh. We want his Paying Delusional Customers to be kicked out, ‘ya seez?

            • Poison Ivy

              This could be the route to getting a lot of people out of the cult!

              Let’s start with the FACEBOOK folks on Black Rob’s site…

    • Poison Ivy

      Age and disability discrimination – in CA and NY, those things can get you sued big time. They are taken seriously. Hello, law enforcement? Does this sort of law-breaking also pass your scrutiny because of “religious” cloaking?
      Here is another great class action suit for Scientologists…I don’t know about FLA, but in NY and CA, it’s a winner.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        There are stronger Elder Abuse laws now in FL. On issue of state discrim laws, I thought discrimination issues were Federal? I had heard of a few stories here and there about DM’s treatment, but nothing so widescale and long term.

    • q-bird

      It is so hard to be a scientologist – heart ache for all…

      http://youtu.be/0bmaai9kLBs

      • GlibWog

        Q.. OMG I love, love Love Brett Dennen.. His voice just hauntingly beautiful..thank you..

    • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

      Our “World Exclusive Tom Cruise Interview: Scientology Super Power Rundown!” inadvertently brought to light some problems with older OT’s who have no confront of the physical universe: http://otviiiisgrrr8.com/2013/08/18/world-exclusive-tom-cruise-interview-scientology-super-power-rundown/

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        hahahahaha. Nice Try #8. I already Did the Cause Resurgence! How do you think I keep Surging and Surging? I am SuperSurged! surprise…your move, sir

    • sugarplumfairy

      I can’t believe he would consider putting ANYONE, let alone a senior, on a gyroscope without clearance from a physician.. The world is full of people with undiagnosed heart murmurs, aneurysms, blood clots, seizure disorders, or blood pressure issues that could cause major sudden healh crises..

      • MissCandle

        Only those who have left DM in their wills.

    • dbloch7986

      Hey THDNE, does any of this come as a surprise to you? Before anyone goes to FLAG they have to meet a qualifications checklist. Including, no chronic mental or physical conditions. It’s always been that way. We used to receive rejects from FLAG at AOLA all the time. Staff and public Scientologists.

      Haven’t you ever noticed that none of the orgs are equipped with wheelchair ramps? Do you think that’s an accident? Hubbard always despised people who are ill and so do Scientologists.

      It’s even built into their goal of making the “able more able”. Notice, it doesn’t say “disabled” or even “everyone” it says the “able”. Meaning those who are physically and financially “able”.

      “A world without insanity, without criminals and without war. Where the able can prosper and honest beings can have rights. And where man is free to rise to greater heights. These are the aims of Scientology.”

      The ABLE CAN PROSPER. Heh.

      There is even a policy letter where he praises Napoleon for loading lepers on a boat by convincing him that he had an island for them. Then blowing them up with dynamite. He PRAISES Napoleon for that.

  • WildaBeast

    Just wanted to mention that this series is great. For me, having never been in, seeing it laid out step by step is really enlightening. Thanks to both Tony and Claire for doing this.

    • Sherbet

      I agree. I’ve learned tons about the bridge quest.

      • aquaclara

        I agree, too. Although I have to admit, I check the price tag first to see what we’re buying each week – is that just me, or are these scary amounts of money to be throwing around?

        Claire is so lovely and kind in explaining how this stuff actually functions, with no embellishments – But then you see the real questions and dig in a little, and POW, it’s like a hammer to the head. You can see your own life being sucked out of you. (so take your POWs, TC and stuff them).

        • WildaBeast

          No, they are scary amounts of money to be throwing around. I keep thinking, the most money I ever had at one time was $70,000. It supported two people for over two years, with neither of us really working (I was in school), and I to this day feel like I spent it too damn fast. $58k to get this far on the bridge is just mindboggling to me.

          • Eclipse-girl

            I know. I thought that a person would have been a lot further ahead at this point.

        • NeverIn

          I was doing the math last night night for another thread.

          Just looking at this as an investment in yourself and your future, consider that just Expanded Grades 0 and 1 (last week and this) add up to a full year’s tuition at Harvard. HARVARD.

          Scientologists could be spending their time and money on the kind of education that actually generates world leaders and visionary game changers.

          Instead they spend the same or more on something that might possibly allow them to find better parking spaces one day.

          • Poison Ivy

            {Who needs a Wog education, when you could be CLEARING THE PLANET AND SAVING MANKIND….by…..by….holding on to a couple of cans and imagining past lives.}

          • aquaclara

            You’re so right. And that’s real math, not Scilon math.
            Great observation.

  • Gordon Freeman

    Gimme a post from Claire!
    Informative words up there!
    Thinking, scheming, clambake seeming!

    Give us the rundown, Claire
    Column length or longer,
    Her babies, their mama
    an occasional post from daddy daddy

    Claire, Claire, Claire, Claire, Claire, Claire!

    With apologies to basically everyone for that terrible filk.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Theme from Hair? that Will be humming in my head now all day.

  • Jefferson Hawkins

    I’ll make a similar comment here that I did on the “Grade 0 – Communications” article. Scientology promises that when you complete “Grade I,” you will have gained the ability to “recognize the source of problems and make them vanish.” Well, observably, Scientologists as a group have no more ability to solve problems than their non-Scientologist counterparts. They still have money problems, relationship problems, work problems, you name it.

    And the biggest problem they cannot solve is Scientology itself. They have allowed their “religion” to be taken over by a sociopath who is running it into the ground. If they can “recognize the source of problems and make them vanish,” why haven’t they been able to solve that?

    Scientology promises the earth and delivers little. Within the bubble of Scientology, they try to convince themselves and each other that they have gained these abilities, yet observably they don’t have them. They don’t demonstrate the sort of superior abilities that Scientology promises.

    Of course, if you point this out, they have a ready answer – PTS. If someone can’t demonstrate these gains or “loses” his or her gains, it’s because of an SP, a Suppressive Person. I was thinking about this the other day, and I realized that this is Scientology’s admission that the “gains” from auditing are faith-based.

    Follow me here: Scientologists put great store in what they call “certainty.” In “The Factors,” Hubbard says, “Certainty, not data, is knowledge.” Well, that’s an old Gnostic idea. Knowledge, not as data or information, but as spiritual certainty. Scientologists talk about “knowingness.” Well, that’s the same idea as gnosis, an inner spiritual certainty.

    Here’s an interesting synonym study from the Random House dictionary: “Belief, certainty, conviction refer to acceptance of, or confidence in, an alleged fact or body of facts as true or right without positive knowledge or proof. Belief is such acceptance in general: belief in astrology. Certainty indicates unquestioning belief and positiveness in one’s own mind that something is true.”

    The power of an SP is that they can shake that certainty by introducing doubts. Thus when one is around an SP, they can “lose their gains” because the SP “invalidates” their Scientology “wins.” In other words, these “gains” can only exist in the self-reinforcing bubble of Scientology. The minute you go outside that bubble, you risk those gains because they might be invalidated. Scientologists tell their people this sort of thing all the time. “Don’t read the internet because your gains might be at risk.” “Don’t talk to so-and-so because your Bridge progress will be endangered. “ They are really saying “don’t let anything shake your faith.”

    It’s ridiculous. Ability is ability. If you gain the ability to, say, play the piano, you don’t lose that ability because someone invalidates you.

    • WildaBeast

      Agreed. However, there is a kind of corollary to that, which is that it is easier to gain certain abilities when you are surrounded by positive reinforcement. Case in point: roller derby and roller skating. I started out skating for a large league, where if you weren’t picking up the skills fast enough, you kind of became persona non grata; conversely, if you had the skills, you could do no wrong. I SUCKED. You have no idea how much I sucked and how much I failed to improve. I left that league, took some time off, and joined a much smaller league full of really awesome people. Despite having fewer people with debatably fewer skills to learn from, I started to improve at light speed, simply because nobody was making me feel like crap about not learning it ‘fast enough’. Nobody can take away abilities you’ve gained. But enough crappiness around you can keep you from gaining them in the first place.

      • Eclipse-girl

        As an educator, I know people do not learn if they are berated or ignored. It takes time, attention and positive reinforcement.

      • Missionary Kid

        If you imagined an opponent as DM, I’ll bet you’d obliterate them.

    • Jvm3

      Not so fast! In my reality, that piano is actually an accordian!

    • Sherbet

      There is NOTHING like getting an ex’s point of view — so clear and easily understood. Thank you, Jeff.

    • Poison Ivy

      Great analysis, Jefferson! So, they are covertly admitting it’s faith, not facts, in their Theology of Finger-Pointing (at SP’s, at PTS’s, at degraded beings, etc.)! Of course, it’s another total contradiction in Scientology that those in will never face or see.

      • Sherbet

        {But if its adherents have faith in scientology, that means it’s a religion after all.}

        • GlibWog

          Sherb.. NOT necessarily… You can have faith in something and it NOT be a religion.
          They may have faith in the Tech..

          • Sherbet

            True, Glib, but I was using Sarcasm Indicators.

            • i-Betty

              Ohhhh, THAT’S what they are! I shall be using them lots now I know 😀

              Hmm…if I can find them on my keyboard. Where are you?

            • Robert Eckert

              Should be the Shift of the square brackets [ and ]

            • i-Betty

              {}

              Huzzar!

              xxx

            • GlibWog

              hahahah.. Well, Slap MY Face and Call me Mama! Yes you were.. I was really surprised when I read that coming from you Sherbet……………………..bawwwwwwhahaha

              I wanted to say..Girl Have You Done Lost Your Mind..? ( xo)

            • Missionary Kid

              I lost my mind long ago. No sarcasm font for that statement.

    • Alice Smith

      What an astute observation, Jefferson! Yes, it really is all faith in the end, but not a useful “faith” like other religions, where you get to believe God loves you and cares about you. But a “faith” that this stuff is doing something for you and if you say maybe it didn’t work like they said, it’s all your fault.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      And yet it is drilled into you over and over from one book chapter or course process or auditing level or promo piece that faith is for the weak minded and is bad and scientology is the opposite of faith. It is all about the DayTuh, which is all scientific and truthfulness and FaKtual and you should study and drill and know it cold until you, well, just Know it.

      Every good con worth its name has an “SP/PTS” clause in it.

      • Candygram

        It really does seem like LRH did his best to create a world of doublespeak doesn’t it? I’m surprised there isn’t a rundown where one has to eat sh*t and pretend it’s a brownie.

        • Rex

          LRH knew what he was doing. I suspect his bible was Orwell’s 1984.

          • Espiando

            Let us remind ourselves again that said book was published only two years prior to Dianetics.

            • Rex

              Amen to that. As a youth, I had nightmares about 1984 and Big Brother. As an adult, I have nightmares that anyone as foul as LRH existed, and wanted to recreate Orwell’s dystopia, in real life. True evil.

          • Poison Ivy

            Captain Howdy found a quote to that effect just yesterday.

            • Rex

              Yeah, he nailed it

        • richelieu jr

          “I’m surprised there isn’t a rundown where one has to eat sh*t and pretend it’s a brownie.”

          I’m pretty sure that’s every rundown, actually….

          • Exterrier

            The Brownie Rundown. I think it was part of the Out Int Rundown, which I never understood anyhow.

        • Exterrier

          Shhhh…..Don’t say that too loud. They will hear you and DM will add it somewhere. Sounds like a good RPF drill after running around poles in the sun.

    • Still_On_Your_Side

      Thank you for such a great comment! What is the difference between the Salem witch hunts and Miscavige’s SP hunts? Both were/are maniacal attacks on individuals who have fallen out of favor with “leadership.” Both were/are based solely on unquestioning “faith. ” Ironically, Salem at least held a “trial” before confirming someone was a witch. Miscavige cannot risk any trials. Any demand for a trial or review of the evidence is either ignored or viewed as “proof” that the person is anti-CoS, and therefore it is viewed as proof that he/she is an SP. Any challenge to an SP declaration from a friend or family member will likely mean the challenger also is declared. Miscavige has declared so many members that, like most tyrants, he has inadvertently created a resistance movement. This is what uneducated people do when they “assume” power. They fail to heed the mistakes of the past. Miscavige probably has no idea that he is following in the footsteps of the hypocritical tyrants that ran the Salem witch hunts, or Hitler, or Joe McCarthy. Therefore, he did not expect a growing resistance movement both within and without his church. Miscavige probably believes that if he throws enough money (that isn’t his to throw) at this resistance, and “terrorizes” it enough, it will go away. As we are seeing, however, it is not going away, it is growing and there are more and more members still in the church who are waking up and seeing the lessons of history written on Miscavige’s prison camp walls. Like the Salem leaders, Hitler, Joe McCarthy and others, Miscavige will be booted out and his legacy will be a permanent stain on their church’s history.

      • GlibWog

        There is NO Chirch.. Hubs IS the Stain. Tiny Boots just made more of a stain.

    • sizzle8

      Jeff, Theoretically it seems that PTS/SP “tech” is completely at odds against the goal of making the person more ‘at cause’. The fact that he has to use those materials automatically places him ‘at effect’ and keeps him there. It always seemed that PTS/SP materials were really about controlling the customer.

    • monkeyknickers

      Jefferson, when you escaped had you stopped believing in Hubbard? Or did that come later?

      • Jefferson Hawkins

        It was a gradual decompression, as most exes experience – as described in Counterfeit Dreams.

        • monkeyknickers

          Sorry, honey – I just googled that (thinking it was a blog or something) – I didn’t realize you had written a book 🙂 I’m kinda new around here. I’m gonna download me a copy. I’m sure it’ll be helpful sorting out, um, what the fuck is happening to my sister.

          Many thanks.

          • Poison Ivy

            Monkey, I think you will be in for a treat. Jefferson’s book is one of the best I think because it captures the idealism of the early Scientologists and shows quite clearly how first Hubbard and then Miscavige used it to manipulate and betray followers.

            • Mark

              Thanks Ivy. Jeff’s book is on my must-get list.

            • Poison Ivy

              Monkey & Mark – he’s also an excellent writer.

            • monkeyknickers

              Always a bonus. 🙂

            • MissCandle

              And smart.
              Edit to add recommendation: Excellent book; I highly recommend; and I use semicolons.

            • monkeyknickers

              I like treats Ivy!!

              What else you got?!

              I’m not big on chocolate but I enjoy pickles and cheese.

              And . . . . saltines.

              And . . . garden burgers.

              :))

            • Exterrier

              It is a terrific book, and essential for the reasons you state.

          • GlibWog

            One of my First and Favorite books Monkey.. fabulous read.

        • jeff

          Well, I just bought the book on Amazon. I have been lurking here for a few days…was routed here after watching a recommended Youtube video with Tony on it by TheLipTV. After an intensive several week-long dive down the rabbit hole of trying to figure out the appeal of Scientology…I am very cult wary, but at the same time have been fascinated by cults. I still don’t get the attraction of Scientology, and from all the videos I have seen of L Ron Hubbard, I don’t see any charisma. But more upsetting to me, is the crimes that they are committing all whilst hiding behind the cloak of religion, tagging every critic as a religious bigot. I hope your book will provide some further insight.

    • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

      Jeff, you’ve been away from the Church for many years now and are not aware of the thousands of exciting changes your old boss David Miscavige has made to soooo many things including the Grade chart. COB listens and COB cares and that is why the new Grade chart is simple and easy to understand: http://otviiiisgrrr8.com/2013/08/19/golden-age-of-tech-phase-ii-cobs-new-simplified-grade-chart/

      Forget all of those “abilities gained” falderal of yesteryear. Here is the real deal now in 2013:

      http://otviiisgrrr8.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/gat-ii1.png

      • Orglodyte

        Incredibly funny. Laughed long and loud.

      • WhereIsSHE

        WHEEL…… OF….. MISFORTUNE!!!!!!!!!!!
        da, da, da, …da, da, da….
        da, da, da…. da, da, da….
        da, da, da…. da, da, da, daaaaaaaaaa

        (where all your “winnings” go directly back to “the bank”)

        • Tron Javolta

          Where’s the ‘bankrupt’ segment though? Waitaminute… IT’S ALL ONE BIG ‘BANKRUPT’!!!! Aaaarrghhh!!!!!!!!

    • Studious Judious

      So any SP can invalidate wins. That sounds like a problem. It’s a good thing this course provides the ability to recognize the source of problems and make them vanish. But wait, SP’s invalidate this ability as well. Sounds like it would be better to be an SP since they are more powerful.

    • InTheNameOfXenu

      Bravo, well said Jeff. I love your avatar, by the way. You must be a fan of Breaking Bad.

      • Yan117

        Who is not?

        I truly never watch TV except when that show is on. Simply awesome. Oh, and Game of Thrones too!

        • monkeyknickers

          READ THE BOOKS FIRST.

          🙂

    • Theo Sismanides

      I have been invalidated many times here on the blog, though I must admit all invalidations were not personal but directed to me as still “believing” in Scientology and what Hubbard wrote down, but I didn’t lose any of my wins. How come?

      I even try to explain on the last post how Reality is Agreement but I found a lot of resistance into discussing this and reaching an agreement. Different reality about Reality.

      So, Scientologists are not really up to it yet. They have to real get it down cold before they can be IT. That’s my take on it. I have seen people who had so many wins and lost them just because they found themselves in other environments. Something is wrong there. And what is wrong has to do with those people and how good they know in the fullest sense of the word, their stuff. In my opinion they didn’t know in the first place. They followed all the way and the thing didn’t become their second nature. Until that point we are going to see many such failures.

      Another vivid example is that Indies cannot even organise themselves. SOMEONE has to do it for THEM. Big admin NOT KNOW HOW.

      • Mark

        Oh God, he’s back – Mr. Logorrhea.

      • dbloch7986

        Hey bud. You comment a lot on here about wins. Let’s hear some wins? I’d like to hear a couple of examples of how you are better off with Scientology as opposed to without it. For example, a situation which, without Scientology, you would not have been able to solve it–or you would have chosen the less “good” solution without Scientology.

        • Eivol Ekdal

          this is not a scientology environment so the {wins} will seem and are empty here.

          • Theo Sismanides

            I am practicing and exercising like a Ninja warrior does amongst foes. So, in a fight you get hurt and you lose or win. I don’t think you got the point of what I am talking about when I say I don’t lose my wins. I am not talking about you, I am talking about me. I am not thwarted by what others have to say here, not even you

            • Rex

              I believe you don’t lose your wins. My assertion that LRH had evil intentions is not predicated on you losing your wins.

            • Theo Sismanides

              ok I respect your reality and I hear you. You seem a gentle person. I think otherwise but that’s life. We can at least talk in a civilised way, not like some few others here. thanks

            • Rex

              Thanks, Theo. I appreciate that you listened:)

            • Poison Ivy

              Well said, Rex.

        • Theo Sismanides

          Hi, one thing that I can deliver as processes are the assists processes. One day there was this guy up to 80 inches tall and he came home with a problem on his back. He was like in two pieces. After 20 minutes of a nerve assist his back was straightened out. Of course he had serious problems with his back so he had to go see a physician, still after the assist he was straight up and vertical and could walk with not so much pain.

          My gf (I am divorced now) has had cancer. She is surviving it but still she was very upset with her life. After 3 years being together she has wins learning that she is a spiritual being and that something can be done about it. She is even more competent at her work and she can get great products. She helps me out in many ways and we are happy.

          Personally, I know I am a spiritual being and i look at people that way. I am very open in communication, I run my free business, I don’t pay much attention to all the problems created for people, I am optimistic and try to lift people up. I know one day that will pay back as people are important.

          On my job, I run into debt as most businessmen have, and now with the crisis in Greece and all the suppression from the international Mafia who found huge resources of oil and gas here and wanted to get Greece chained, things got worse. But I didn’t give up, ok any person can do that, a Scientologist or not, but still I deal a lot with communicating with my fellow Indies and run my business. i consider this a win, being a free man who has bought that little of his freedom.

          I love people, I don’t hate them, I understand them. If I insist, I insist because I know that someday we will be friends. People need to trust one another and this ain’t happening much in this world.

          The things I know keep me afloat. I don’t need to know all the little details and data about anything. Today you can google things and learn. But judgement is something else. YOu cannot learn judgement unless you operate on some valid code.

          These are some of my wins. Casewise, meaning as a thetan, I feel good. Ok body gives some troubles but I guess it’s because I am misusing it a bit. See, my friend, when you lose your religion or philosophy, a thing you fought for for so long it might hurt. But I am doing ok. Thanks for asking.

          • dbloch7986

            Those are all positive things, but there’s no evidence they should be attributed to Scientology at all. It sounds like you are a capable person who is able to persevere through a crisis and help others do the same.

            I think that you should start recognizing your abilities for what they are and stop trying to attribute them to your practice of Scientology.

            I guarantee that you could have done all of those things, and could still do all of them without Scientology.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Thanks, I am not attributing all to Scientology. After all scientology is supposed to be a tool and that’s all. A tool… period. Nothing more and nothing else. If the edge isn’t cutting anymore (like in the church… which by the way makes me look a very stupid person, too, though I left) you throw the tool away or you repair it. I left the church for those reasons. I am happy to be here because there is a lot of good people who want to discuss and want their viewpoints to be challenged but in a sane and logical way. Except for a few guys who I am spotting and cutting communication with (see disconnection is not always a bad thing, it’s a right one has, but the church again abuses that right) all the rest are great people and I admire them for wanting to know even in that way and want to do something with the tyrannical church.

              Soon I believe we can be discussing in a more reasonable way.

            • dbloch7986

              Scientology is the opposite of a tool. Indeed, it’s a hindrance. You need to toss it so that you can actually get in touch with your real capability. Scientology stands between you and what you are really capable of.

              Why? Because you constantly refer to Scientology for something that you can absolutely do by yourself. I guarantee you are 100x smarter than Hubbard ever was. A million times. A billion times smarter, Theo.

              Like Scientologists say, knock it off!

            • Theo Sismanides

              thanks for your kind and flattering words. But I don’t think that you realise one thing. There are 2 Scientologies. One is the church and the way it practices the tech and the other is the tech as in the books, lectures etc. I am doing the 2nd Scientology. OK? So we get things straight. The second scientology is just words. Of course they need to be interpreted by me. But there is no one telling me what to do with those. I want to apply them or not. I don’t have seniors, I don’t use a church for a via. I AM ME!

              As to Hubbard I don’t know how much you have read from him but I don’t think the comparison fits. I am not invalidating myself but that comparison is impossible. I surely strive to learn and be a better person. And all your communications today have been very kind and I am pleased with this. I don’t want to monopolise this discussion and be off subject either, which I have done. The discussion is supposed to be about touching walls etc. lol ! Anyway thanks.

              P.S. Is knock it off a Scientology mostly term? My god! I don’t think so! is it really?

            • dbloch7986

              How much haven’t I read is the question. He’s a dumbass with poor writing skills and no understanding of science, physics or anything really.

            • Poison Ivy

              He seems like a friendly dude and all, but I am beginning to think Theo is a parody of a Scientologist. Truly.

            • Theo Sismanides

              hahaha, I like that. I am like the Ben Stiller vs. Tom Cruise type of thing. The parody of a Scientologist, hahaha!

            • Rex

              Me too.

            • Espiando

              Oh, please, Derek, let Theo defend Hubtard on the subject of physics. It’ll be Zorba the Geek versus Godzilla when I start tearing into him.

            • Theo Sismanides

              We should have an extra set up arena for that match to occur. Tony should take a note. I am a nerd on physics though, but I am sure I can pull out some good refs. (like uppercuts, hehehe).

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              And Espiando is an actual Physicist!
              So, good luck with that one….

            • Espiando

              Care to have a look at my undergraduate degree certificate, Theo? It has the word “physics” on it.

            • Theo Sismanides

              hehe!

              (thinking of my uppercuts = refs… I am going to tear him up!)

              Ok, Espiando, I told you I am a nerd on physics but we could arrange something. But how that would fit with Hubbard?

            • Espiando

              We could do All About Radiation. Let’s start out with the fact that it’s quite clear he doesn’t know what an alpha particle is.

            • Theo Sismanides

              I don’t have the book not even in digital form so I will not be able to refer to what you are saying. Any other? But I can hear you on All about Radiation. What’s an alpha particle anyway?

            • Espiando

              No, if you’re going to defend Hubbard The Pioneer Of Nuclear Physics, it’s got to be All About Radiation. That’s where the highest concentration of stupidity is.

              Hubbard correctly calls gamma radiation light. He also calls alpha radiation light, though. Alpha particles (and alpha radiation) are helium nuclei, two protons and two neutrons. He then correctly says that newspaper can block alpha radiation (you don’t even need newspaper; one-ply toilet tissue will do). He then says that gamma radiation can be blocked by newspaper. Oh, hell, no.

            • Rex

              I didn’t think there was a lower limit for the energy of a gamma photon

            • Espiando

              There isn’t an upper limit, but there is a lower limit, roughly 100 to 150keV. That’s when you start calling it an x-ray.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Hmmm… I don’t remember those parts. so he was wrong on that. OK. And how does this affect the whole subject of the book? Or doesn’t it really?

            • Espiando

              Theo, if you call something “All About Radiation”, then make it absolutely clear that you don’t understand the Basic Basic of the subject, doesn’t it call everything written in it to question?

            • Theo Sismanides

              ok guys, I think I will be going to bed! It’s almost 4 o’ clock here. Espiando, we get this another time. Thanks I have some few more comments to answer.

            • Robert Eckert

              Suppose Hubbard wrote a book “All About Greece” which starts out by saying that Athens was a Greek city, and Rome was a Greek city, and Rome was sacked by the Vandals, and Athens was too. How would this affect the whole subject of the book?

            • Theo Sismanides

              so how much haven’t you read? lol… ok… we definitely have some different reality here.
              Any wins from any auditing, ever?

            • dbloch7986

              I am an SP so obviously I am NCG

            • Espiando

              Did you ever have a session that began with “This is the session”, Derek? Or was it all sec checks?

            • Theo Sismanides

              HAHAHAHAHA, there you go!!!

            • Espiando

              Theo, my question to Derek was serious. He went through hell in the Sea Org. And then he went through hell when he routed out of the Sea Org. I’ve always had my doubts about whether he received any auditing at all, that whenever he grabbed the cans, it was only for sec checks. So my question was sincere.

            • dbloch7986

              I passed all my sec checks with rock slams. I was about to become the next miscavige, but then I realized that I don’t like the smell of my own farts and I enjoy the company of my own gender. So I got the fuck out while the getting was good 🙂

            • i-Betty

              Hahahaha! Priceless 😀

            • Theo Sismanides

              NCG? what’s that? ahh,,, no case gain… come on.. who told you you are an SP? I beat their ass! It’s CANCELLED! RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW! C-A-N-C-E-L-L-E-D! SP my ass!

            • Robert Eckert

              Disconnection is always a bad thing. Your childish pronouncements that you will not communicate with some people any more just show how much damage Scientology has done to your mind.

            • Foxrenard

              “Thanks, I am not attributing all to Scientology. After all scientology is supposed to be a tool and that’s all. A tool… period.”

              Oh yes ! That’s what I thought in the beginning ! Until you realize you should be available 24 hours a day for them and find out that YOU are actually the tool they use. And then, after they squeezed you like a lemon, they throw you in the trash.

            • Theo Sismanides

              I just got out the right way. Declared SP and able to use the tool the way i wish. They are not allowed even to communicate to me at all, lol! Ain’t that freedom?

          • i-Betty

            Oh, Theo. Get your head out of the sand and ‘find’ something else that nurtures your spiritual needs. Buddhism is great, and sounds like just the thing for a man like you who appreciates spirituality and reincarnation.

            What I find so frustrating about you is that you are clearly a really decent human being, yet you fail to see that those amazing qualities are your own; they haven’t been implanted in you by Scientology or anything else!

            You are a good man for many reasons: upbringing, environment, family, friends, education. You should be so proud of the man you grew to be. YOU are the reason you are good and kind and loving. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Scientology.

            Just think of what you could have achieved if you’d veered towards a kinder, gentler, more benign faith. You’d be amazing.

            I’m so sorry if you think I am being presumptuous (and if you do, then I apologise). It’s only because I see right through the bluster to the lovely bloke inside.

            PS. It’s none of my business which faith your choose to follow. Fly free, young Padawan. Just be happy. 🙂

            • Theo Sismanides

              Well, thanks i-Betty. I see that you care in your comments. I am sorry that a church has ruined so much what scientology is all about. It’s just a tool. To be used. Nothing else. I use some things from it. You are right, I am who I am. Still, I am very frustrated that the people of earth have no manuals to live life. I found one such manual. That it became a end to itself, I have to admit. It shouldn’t have.

              I am frustrated that there are no good workable manuals. Anyway, I don’t know where this leads. I will have to consider. Just talking about scientology, scientology, scientology anyway is not helping anyone. The point is to do something with the person and help him or her out in some way that it is real for them. And that is what I want to do.

              P.S. what’s a Padawan?

            • Espiando

              Theo, if you don’t get a Star Wars reference, you’ve spent too much time with your nose in Scientology. Like Betty said, get out a little.

              By the way, there are thirty times as many people in GB who say that their religion is Jedi than there are Scientologists.

              As for me, I don’t need a manual for living. I don’t want one. If you need one, then I’d say that you weren’t the person for Scientology to begin with. It’s supposed to make the able more able, and you don’t sound like you’re very able.

              Getting someone else to think for you is no way to live life.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Espiando, the lonely hero who never did need any assistance or guidance from anybody. He did it all HIMSELF, ladies and gentlemen. Espiando, the Man who didn’t need a Manual…!

              Bravo Espiando. You are super hero. However since we are not all heros like you or able like you, let us see what is happening with our lives because i don’t think I am the only one who sees that things are going a bit crazy in this world. Or am i wrong on this too? So, I do use manuals and I do like them. Until I learn for myself.

              Anyway, I think I will get to see some more comments here and see what we can discuss about.

            • Espiando

              I am a superhero. I’m at Cause Over Everything. Marty said so.

              You, though, are wrong if you believe that things are “going a bit crazy” in this world. That’s because you feel you have a right to impose your particular sense of order on something that is, by nature, a disordered system. It doesn’t work that way. So just don’t bother. Accept that this is the way thing are, and have always been, and will always be.

              The only dynamic you can have any effect on is the First. Once you accept that, you really are free.

            • Theo Sismanides

              LOL ! Now you are trying to proselytise me into your faith! The First Dynamic Faith! Oh, yes I have seen the likes of you! You can’t even take responsibility for any second dynamic? Do you feel completely effect on the 2nd? Maybe I should start lecturing people on that one. it’s a big button.

              I have news for you. Finally, Espiando… in this life time, my boy, there will be a day, if you believe it hard enough (and take some action though) when you will be able to be CAUSE over a 2nd Dynamic.

              Let the disordered system because that’s too far fetched for you yet. It’s 3rd and above. I wouldn’t recommend it for you at your current state of affairs. Your next step is the 2nd! START!

            • Espiando

              “Masturbation is the most perfect form of sex because the amount of love given is always equal to the amount of love received.” – Jean Genet.

            • Theo Sismanides

              You are just entering the course. Masturbation definitely has to do with the 2nd dynamic although it deals with it in a very 1st dynamic way. However, don’t be dismayed… it’s just the beginning. After all this old scientology motto will help you: in order for one to put order, one must first be able to confront disorder. We’ll get you there Espiando… Just hung in there, man!

            • Espiando

              The only way in which masturbation is Second Dynamic is that you have to confess it like all of your other 2D sins when you grab the cans. If it’s Second Dynamic, you’re doing it wrong.

              If you understood more about entropy (it’s Seventh Dynamic but you can clay-demo it after you word-clear it), you’d realize that “putting in order” is pissing into an ocean of piss. It’s not worth it, and it will have no discernable effect. You can affect yourself, and your efforts are better spent doing that.

            • Theo Sismanides

              I know entropy. I will have to look it up once again so I get a more expanded understanding on it.

              Now jokes aside… seriously masturbation although on the verge is a second dynamic activity. It has to do with sex, though there is no other person there and it usually entails a lot of fantasy and pictures (mock ups as we call them) plus some facsimiles which all has to do with the dynamic of creation. You have to admit you do enter into the realm of… something else.

            • Foxrenard

              “…when you will be able to be CAUSE over a 2nd Dynamic.”

              Like the scientology icon Tom Cruise ?? Well !!

            • Theo Sismanides

              I don’t think Tom has ever been Cause on anything much except his funs and the roles he played. He is just an icon otherwise.

            • Lady Squash

              Not nice, Espiando. Not nice at all.

            • Espiando

              {Yeah, like I’m the specialist in Being Nice here.}

          • Lady Squash

            Nice answer. You sound like a very nice person. Glad you are doing so well.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Thanks a lot. I am really glad I can communicate here and speak a bit about the other side of the moon. It’s only fair. People can’t but see it’s front side only.

      • Jefferson Hawkins

        Two things:

        First, Scientologists can be counted on to respond to an observable fact (“Scientologists are no better at solving problems than anyone else”) with a subjective viewpoint (“But I had personal wins”). They will never respond with a counter-fact (“Such-and-such a study shows that Scientologists have above average problem-solving skills”). They don’t even recognize that they are having a different conversation from everyone else – because to them, their internal subjective feelings trump objective fact.

        Second: They do see other Scientologists who do not demonstrate increased ability. They see it all the time. But they immediately conclude that it is the fault of the person, not the fault of the tech, because that is how they are trained. So no matter how many Scientology failures they see, they will never see it as a defect of “the tech.”

        • Theo Sismanides

          Jeff, Scientology is not just meant to be applied on a 1st dynamic basis. That’s a huge mistake. An OT cannot remain an OT without support or in an hostile environment. You judge Scientologists as 1st dynamics. It’s too early for that. They have long ways to go. If we were talking about real OTs (with full knowledge of Admin, Tech and Etchis) it would be different.

          But you saw Scientologists operating as a 3rd dynamic up at Int and in the Sea Org? Wasn’t that powerful? (aside from all Miscavige’s crap).

          • Jefferson Hawkins

            No, there was nothing at all “powerful” about the Int Base. Nothing. I am assuming you were never there or you would not have asked that question. There is no more dramatic example of the dysfunction of Scientology than it’s highest echelons.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Then at the lower levels we happened to do Scientology. At ASHO I was exterior…. I could predict a door opening and it would open.. that lasted about 10 days.. I put a 7 Div Org Board and got 150 volunteers in the CF of ASHO when Yolanda McGuire a missionaire from FB was telling me to file files. I followed the Org Board and got the volunteers who could do that amount of work.

              I was reading the PDCs in the Leb Hall and it was like the LA breeze.

              Maybe, it was like hell up there at Int. We also had a lot of crap and off policy enforced on us or even no freedom to improvise and create. This I understand. But definitely a 3rd dynamic is therapeutic. At least to me.

            • i-Betty

              “We also had a lot of crap and off policy enforced on us or even no freedom to improvise and create.”

              I’m sorry to hear that, Theo. And yet you still believe. I find your strength of purpose admirable, but don’t you sometimes wish that you had found a faith which treated its members in a loving, respectful, kindly manner?

              I guess I am trying to understand why you can see the negative things that took place before your eyes, and are open to hearing about terrible things that happened to other people all under the banner of Scientology, and yet you’re still prepared to fight for this organisation.

              I just feel like you have so much to give to an organisation that’s worthy of your passion.

            • Theo Sismanides

              I am not for that organisation. I think I have made that clear. I am an Indie. I am ex-communicated from the mainstream organisation.

              So, what I am doing here and elsewhere is I am trying to establish some reality with people and get some understandings through communication. That’s all. I support scientology (the s with miniscule, as it is a tool for me now not an organisation) and its principles not how they are misused in the church. I don’t belong to that church.

            • J. Swift

              Theo, “exterior” is just not that big of a deal. A person can go exterior until they are yawning with boredom. In and of itself, exteriorization accomplishes nothing and is proof of nothing. It is a subjective out of body experience. So what?

              The Church of Scientology makes “exterior” a big deal when in reality it means nothing.

              On the other hand, the practice of nonviolence would make the Church Scientology exceptional. However, Scientology and nonviolence are polar opposites. Scientology is innately violent on the 3rd and 4th dynamics and must be so because, at its core, Scientology is about power and control and world domination. Per LRH, the purpose the Sea Org is to put Scientology Ethics in on the planet. This translates to the violence of OSA, Fair Game, Disconnection, etc,

              *****
              To say that “Scientology works” is a claim of efficacy. Scientologists assert that the efficacy of Scientology in universal but this claim is false on its face when made as an Objective statement.

              The “Tech” only works on a subjective basis. LRH said that Scientology cannot thrive in an atmosphere of Suppression. Translated this means that Scientology only “works” among a group of people who agree that it works and re-order their perceptions accordingly, e,g. if a person is not getting “wins” as promised then they are an “NCG” (No Case Gain) and it is their fault because the Tech works. This is a typical Scientology tautology and yet so characteristic of the think.

              Theo, here is my bottom line: The Church of Scientology has never created a true Spiritual Master and never will because it is not an Enlightenment School and was never designed to be.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Scientology is very young to be that harshly criticised. I am not with the church at all, I am an Indie and I can tell you that Scientology as a philosophy has enough of Enlightment for those who can really read, duplicate and fully understand. It’s a pity many people cannot read, duplicate and fully understand. But it’s not Scientology’s or Hubbard’s fault.

              Today I went to a big bookstore trying to find some book on Teaching some methodology for learning and reading. It was hard to find one. There is no such tech really, there is few scholars who do have conceptual understanding of words but they are just scholars. Scientology provides such a method but even this is misapplied or not applied by Scientologists. They are too bored or too dump to do it right.

            • Rex

              Troll alert

            • Espiando

              No, Theo is real. He’s been a frequent poster at Marty’s and Mike’s, and shows up here for any article that criticizes the Tech or Hubbard. He’s sort of our pet Indie.

            • Rex

              I know, but that was a really dumb post, even for him.

            • Poison Ivy

              I worry that he’s getting worse. As Derek says, it sounds like he’s on the verge of going back full-blown Clamology. (Except he thinks Miscavige is bad.)

            • Mark

              If he’s a “pet”, he’s the sort that won’t stop barking, and then craps behind the sofa.

            • J. Swift

              Theo, my responses:

              1. “Scientology is too young.” My answer: No, Scientology is not too young. LRH made sensational claims that he was offering the secrets of the universe and yet what is the reality inside the Church? The reality is authoritarian thought control and behavioral modification and nothing else.

              2. Your thesis that “Scientology as a philosophy has enough of Enlightment for those who can really read, duplicate and fully understand” is a typical believer argument: The defect in understanding is in those of us who aren’t smart or sane enough to “duplicate” due to our reactive minds. I understand the Tech and what Scientology is and does and reject its implicit program of world conquest by use of the tech.

              3. If you find the Tech personally helpful then that is a good thing. However, you realistically can’t expect non-Scientologists to share your enthusiasm. This is not a lack of duplication at all.

              4. There are formal written books and systems for educating people on complex topics such as engineering, finance, entrepreneurship, software, medicine, etc. These systems are generally housed in a series of buildings called universities, a subject unfamiliar to Scientologists.

              These schools of higher learning have, incredible as it may seem to Scientologists, allowed non-Scientologists to build a vast and complex infrastructure based on science and technology.

              Wogs have given Scientologists an electrical grid, clean water, phone systems, the internet, jet cars, jet airplanes, universities, etc. and yet wogs have somehow failed to distill this all into single book in a bookstore. I can see why you have had to flunk the entire system for this miserable failure.

            • Espiando

              What do you expect of an organization that calls audio tapes of a lecture in front of three dozen bored people a “doctorate course”? Or a months-long slog through piles of tapes and blizzards of documented policies a “briefing”?

            • Theo Sismanides

              oh.. J. Swift… you are too swift in making nice comments.

              First of all wogs are wogs and non Scientologists are non Scientologists. Flunk on the definition and use of the word wog… (hmmm that makes me wonder how many other MUs are there on the subject).

              Universities are a subject unfamiliar to Scientologists? Is that what you mean?

              1. Scientology IS young, rather young compared to other religions and philosophies.
              2. It’s not that they are not smart enough or holy enough to “duplicate”, it’s just that they are careless and know bests. Please clear up the word wog for example as compared to non Scientologist and don’t just carelessly throw terms like that. I know my math here.

              3. My new gf, a non Scientologist does share it and she was looking for something like that to decompress…

              4. I have attended University and graduated in Law. Although Greece is not maybe the best place to get a University education, I am sure that we are not the only ones. I was not impressed. Maybe in the US where things tend to workability more than theories, Universities can make lawyers for example. here we had to learn how to practice our profession after the University. No workability in the teachings. So, i am not impressed.

              5. so Non Scientologists, yes have given all those things. Man is thriving on the physical sciences but he is still an unhappy and unsatisfied man. Come on start looking at the other side of man.

              I am talking about a methodology of how to study. You misduplicated me again. It looks like you have to be more careful in your readings and not be so swift!!!

            • GlibWog

              Theo.. We have been over the whole ” Wog ” term with you already. Please check your notes.

            • Poison Ivy

              (Thank you Glib. Theo gives the impression of being open to discussion, but he is not. He has decided what to believe and then tries his case based on the tired old Scientology axioms.)

            • GlibWog

              Yep.. Snooze A Rama ha I cut him a little slack at times because he’s cute
              bawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwhahahhahaha

            • Theo Sismanides

              yes, but there are people who haven’t got it apparently. I know my notes.

            • Robert Eckert

              There is only one person here who hasn’t got it.

            • Theo Sismanides

              you see Robert? Then you want a decent discussion? How can this occur at the Tone Level of Antagonism (2.5)? Well, I could keep being antagonistic with you and that would keep the conversation. You would be very happy at that tone level, wouldn’t you? I have news for you. One can be 0.5 to 1 tone above another to bring him up. 3.0 Conservatism, 3.5 Strong Interest. So, really tell me about yourself a bit? What are you up to Robert? I have said many things about me, I would like to hear now about you, if you don’t mind.

            • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

              Theo, if you are looking for a “workable study technology” then the Church of Scientology is the place to find it. Scientology is the study of knowing how to know. But don’t take our word for it. Look for yourself at how Scientology study technology has revolutionized the educational system in countries such as Swaziland, Ecuador, Chad, and yes even Soviet Russia,

              As actual studies have proven, schoolchildren who use Scientology study tech have, on average, an 81% higher IQ (as measured by the OCA) than do children who study based upon inferior solutions.

              When a child receives failing grades in public schools, the Psychs want to shovel Psych drugs down the child’s throats rather than sitting the child down and having him or her clay demo or word clear. Fully 98% of so-called learning disabilities can be solved using clay demo and word clearing technology.

            • Poison Ivy

              Well, why didn’t you say so? (Can I have my pen now?)

            • Theo Sismanides

              OTVIIIIGrrr8, you are always funny and… consistent. I admire you for this. Oh and you are Pandetermined actually through your humour you really take no sides… lol… that’s a good one.

            • Foxrenard

              “Man is thriving on the physical sciences but he is still an unhappy and unsatisfied man.”

              Scientologists are then happy and satisfied ? They look so for photo posing. 90% of the one I know are divorced, in debts or have illnesses.

            • Theo Sismanides

              I said Man, I didn’t say A Non scientologist.

            • Candygram

              It’s good that you can read, but you certainly don’t make sense.

            • Theo Sismanides

              yes I thought so too, but for you. bye for now. going to bed.

            • GlibWog

              “But it’s not Scientology’s or Hubbard’s fault. ”
              Theo it’s ALL HUBBARD’S FAULT! DM just took over where Hubs left off.. Both Evil Men.

            • Theo Sismanides

              whatever, you don’t have to TR3 me on this. I got it!

          • Poison Ivy

            Theo, have you read Jeff’s book? Or Marc Headley’s? Or Jenna Miscavige’s? These are memoirs of life at the INT Base and there is no way in hell you could imagine these people as more “highly functioning” than non-Scientologists. “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest” had an environment that was more highly functioning than the INT Base described in their very personal books. Of course, I have never been there. But thanks to the excellent memoirs of those who have, I have a very good sense of what it was like.

            • Theo Sismanides

              I have read Marty’s books. With first chance I will. However, I have concluded that under Miscavige those people suffered a lot and didn’t have a chance to really do scientology. The best scientology I did was in a basement and in a corridor where i was left alone to work in the day time and study at nights. You can’t blame the Tech for all the Homo Saps that surround us. Hubbard said a Cleared Cannibal will still be a Cannibal. I attribute all this phenomena, even the Miscavige one, allowed to rule in such tyrannical way, to Homo Sap’s genes as he likes to be herded and guided by “Seniors”.

            • Poison Ivy

              The greatest herder of them all was LRH himself.

            • Theo Sismanides

              No-o-o-o, LRH was not a herder. LRH developed a system that some will understand after many life times to come. That very knowledge right now (and this is one reason I don’t want the church to go down altogether but to REFORM) is what keeps many portions of this planet safer than they were and saner than they were. There are some islands of sanity believe it or not. Of course there is insanity too and the church has overdone it in many cases and this is why I was gone from there.

            • Espiando

              Where are these Islands of Sanity? Just west of Corfu?

            • Theo Sismanides

              Islands of sanity are any groups of people who can agree on something and then go ahead and do it, taking into consideration as many of the dynamics as possible. If you ever happened to be with such people and in such group you would realise they are islands of sanity. A man cannot make it on his own unless he influences his environment. i know especially you “the First Dynamic Faith” guy, doesnt’ believe this. But it happens to be true for the lesser ones of us. Creating such islands of sanity is not real here on planet Earth. Better call them packs of wolves.

            • Espiando

              Except that wolves are far more Second Dynamic than humans. They do have one thing in common with Scientologists: they punish any wolf who isn’t the alpha male and alpha female who tries to mate.

            • Theo Sismanides

              who isn’t the alpha male and alpha female who tries to mate.

              I am not getting this, sorry.

            • Espiando

              Most wolf packs are families (Second Dynamic). The alpha male and alpha female are the parents of the rest of the pack. They are the only ones allowed to mate and produce offspring. As the female children reach maturity, they will come into heat and want to mate. They’ll often find a loner in their hunting travels who will satisfy that urge.

              The pack, though, can’t support too many mouths to feed. If the alpha male or alpha female catches one of the cubs mating, they will violently drive the stranger away, then abuse and/or ostracize the female cub. She’ll often be driven away from the pack, or forced to get along on her own until her parents graciously forgive her. And the male cubs? When they’re mature enough to live on their own, their father drives them away, in order to eliminate competition (that’s where the lone males above come from).

              In order for a female wolf to have a mate and her own cubs, she has to leave the safety of the pack and find a fit male who would be an acceptable father for her children. Otherwise, she stays under her parents’ observation until they die, or she dies.

              So, in the wolf world, sexual encounters are overts. Except that wolves can’t audit them away. They get physically abused for it.

            • Theo Sismanides

              wow… now i understand.

              Well, then I am a male cub who went away and can have sex as much as I want without being punished… HAHAHAAHA! Hurray! I am FUCKING FREEEEEEE FROM THE CLAN!

            • Espiando

              Insert joke about “doing it doggie style” here.

            • Theo Sismanides

              I prefer wolfie style, HAHAHAHA! I AM FUCKING FREEEEE! FROM THE CLAN!

            • GlibWog

              Good Lord Theo.. You are free alright!

              By the way I do love it when you visit.. but don’t expect a lot of us to agree with you ( I speak for myself.. ) and those that I know won’t agree with you..ha

            • Rex

              I like what you did there:)

            • GlibWog

              You know Rex.. I gotta a little ” Testy ” with a post earlier about Hubs.

              It’s Tony’s Blog… and I’m sure he wants all to feel welcome.. Scientologists, Never Ins, Wogs, SPs.. Indies and Free Zoners.

              Maybe just maybe he can read one thing that would make him do some deep research..and give up on Hubs..

              Maybe not..

              and then words are spoken and he bolts.

              But of course.. No secret this is an Anti Scientology Thread

              SCN Gibberish is NOT easily tolerated when People’s Lives have been destroyed and ruined.

              OK I’m pissed Again.. I hate Hubbard and All He Stands For. I hate Little Boots and

              all the Step Stools he stand on.

            • Rex

              Yeah, I know, I feel the same way (LRH did consider himself to be satan).

              But these indies and FZ hate Miscavige as much as we do.

              And plus, they are integrated in to normal society, have WOG friends, and aren’t committing any abuse. Better to focus on the current real abuses, rather than hatred for a deceased fraudster.

            • GlibWog

              Oh I’ll focus all right..I dream that it will be taken Downnnnnnnn soon..

              ( but I’ll always Hate Hubbard.. and what he started..and all the lives he ruined)

            • Robert Eckert
            • GlibWog

              Well.. Duh? 2008 hahahha ..

            • Rex

              I hate Hubbard as much as the next person. And we SHOULD be open about that. But we still should be inclusive towards the enemies of our enemy.

            • GlibWog

              As long as they don’t talk the Hubbard shit.

            • Theo Sismanides

              I don’t expect anyone to agree. If they do it’s their decision. if they don’t, same. You or me have no SAY on that. don’t you agree on this one at least?

            • GlibWog

              You and I have no say if someone agrees or doesn’t agree with you?

              Yes, I agree with that

            • Theo Sismanides

              well, then at least that’s real to both of us: that someone can and should decide on their own as to what is and what isn’t. Good! We agree on something.

            • GlibWog

              Good.. ( but I’m NOT changing my name..) ha

            • GlibWog

              OK… I’ll give you one.. but a little vulgar..jeeze..

            • Phil McKraken

              “You can’t blame the Tech for all the Homo Saps that surround us.”

              Translation: The biggest problem with humanity is the people.

            • Theo Sismanides

              the uneducated ones, yes!

            • Foxrenard

              The ones who call you 10 times during the night or every hour at your workplace or 365 days a year at lunch time to sell you a new package of services are educated ?

            • Theo Sismanides

              I don’t belong to them anymore. If you didn’t know I am an Indie and declared SP by the church. Yes they are uneducated in what they are doing if you want my opinion. In Greek we have another proverb saying something like this “a semi-taught person is worse than a no-taught person”. This is what is happening in the church. They are semi-taughts. It’s gonna take some years for Scientology (the church or the Indies) to turn out some real products, it looks like. Life will teach them, too and then they will be more complete. Because life and time throw in other aspects that semi-taught people don’t see but they will see in time. This is what is happening in scientology now.

            • Foxrenard

              Oh, you’re Greek ? I love Greece and Greeks ! I am in pain to see Greece as the target and victim of the New World Order’s zealots 🙁

            • Theo Sismanides

              thanks so much for this, yes, as you stated it. Greece IS the target and victims of the New World Order’s zealots, the Global Enslavers as we call them.

              Please guys, take note that we have much more in common than we think of. And we don’t know it, nor do we know the real dangers that have been afflicting us.

          • Marc Headley

            I was at the Int Base for 15 years. I personally got to know the key people that LRH himself turned over his technical legacy over to. These people were the ones that worked directly with LRH. These people were in films with LRH, they were audited by him. They were there for the “breakthrough” developments in the Scilon world over decades. Some of these people were how, why and for whom the Purif, Super Power and FPRD were created. These people worked with LRH on the Apollo, St Hill or at “X” or “W”. There was no other place in the world where there was any sort of collection of such people besides the Int Base. The Int Base had a monopoly of people that were the most highly skilled scilon tech people in the world.

            One could arguably say that Ray Mithoff was one of these people. He was OT VIII. He was a Class XII Auditor that was the top technical person on the planet. LRH turned over all of the “Tech Lines” in Scientology to Ray Mithoff. I could run circles Ray Mithoff. He was the top scilon tech terminal on the Int Base. Somehow in his infinite scientology knowledge, he could not see that David Miscavige was a total dipshit? I do not profess to be any sort of mad genius. I was smart enough to get the hell out of that place, and Ray MIthoff could not even do that.

            The “most ethical” people in the world would lie, steal or beat their way to top. If you had to sell your wife or husband down the river to stay in good graces with Dave Miscavige for another day it would not even take a thought to make that decision. I have seen these highly ethical “big beings” fight over office chairs to avoid being sent to wash toilets in Toronto.

            Also, when you see a place that is 100% run with scilon tech and it is the worst place you have ever witnessed in your life, how could you come to the conclusion that it could be any better somewhere else run by people that were not directly trained by LRH himself?

            LRH wrote whatever he wrote about scientology. He also wrote that Psych drugs were the most horrible thing in the world and pushed by Xenu’s invader forces. He then used them and died with them in his system.

            LRH also wrote a dispatch to Ray MIthoff when he turned the tech over to him. In that dispatch he wrote an exact date when he would be “returning” from his ‘leave”. In case you were not aware, LRH did not return as he said he would.

            So, based on all this. How can the the most highly skilled scilons in the world personally trained by LRH himself be thoroughly incompetent? How could LRH say that he would return and then not? How could he himself partake in the very drugs he forbade all scilons from taking? How can the universe’s “most workable technology” be hijacked by a power-hungry midget?

            I cannot argue with someone on what they themselves experienced. Maybe you tasted the most awesome cheese in the world. Does that then mean it was not a trap? Does that mean that someone else cannot build a better trap? Does that mean that the trap was not built exactly as described by the most awesome trap builder?

            Just because you tasted some awesome cheese does not mean that I did not see Dave Miscavige take a piss in it when we packaged it up. Or that LRH’s original recipe did not include that and a dump.

            I am not trying to defend a position. I worked at a place that was run by supposedly the most awesome scilons in the world for 15 years. It sucked. Arguing about it is not going to make it suck less.

            End of story.

            • DodoTheLaser

              Thanks Marc.

            • GlibWog

              Amen!

            • monkeyknickers

              Honey, you don’t NEED to defend your position.

              It’s indefensible because it’s . . . . WHAT HAPPENED AND SHIT. No defense needed. Just a willingness from others to see reality and what happened to you and Claire.

              I know I’m the new kid on the block here, seeing as I starting searching for my sister only a 8 months ago, but . . . . I’ve read your input here and it just . . . sickens me.

              Also you may NOT have noticed from my comment WAY below, but check it: because your woman is so smart and cute and well moisturized, she has won a tiny girl infant. I’m overstocked at the moment. And because you are plainly fabulous, I’ll pay shipping. 🙂

              Get ready, brother. 🙂

            • GlibWog

              Yep End of Story.. You are like Mighty Mouse here..

              ” Here he comes to Save the Dayyyyyyyyyyy …That means that Mighty Mouse is on his wayyyyyyyy..”

              Thanks Marc!

            • Theo Sismanides

              Marc, thank you for answering to me. I have the highest admiration for the people who worked at Int, except for a few of course who have been really my enemies.

              I am sorry to hear all this about all those highly trained people that you knew personally. In Greek there is a proverb saying “whatever shines is not gold”.

              I am also sorry to see many of those terminals who have left, having a very bitter taste in their mouth about the whole subject.

              I haven’t read your book and I should, like I should with Jeff’s. I have read a couple of Marty’s books.

              But many of those mgmt people became my enemies and this happened when I was at lower echelons (FLO and CLO EU) and couldn’t see why for example the Translations HCOBs wouldn’t be applied and I (the TU DIR) was sent to mop toilets or bake bread and was kept captive by security for daring to speak up to uphold Standard Tech (you can google my name and find my freezone write ups since 2000 when I was declared for writing in the Freezone).

              At that point the whole of mgmt turned out to be traitors for me. I didn’t know what was happening and why they wouldn’t apply Standard Tech. By 1999 we had many operations to prove that Int Mgmt had gone corrupt and they wouldn’t refer to Standard Tech anymore. We had New Era of mgmt, GAT and many other “evolutions” proving that some crazy people were giving a fuck about Standard Tech and just run the church the way they wanted.

              When Marc Rathbun and Mike Rinder or even Ronnie Miscavige came out or even people who didn’t have such high positions like you and Claire or Jeff, I understood that they were not really part of a plan or “martian” spies but human beings who had a hard time and had to quit because of their conscience. That’s always the last ditch in a thetan. His conscience. They committed and condoned however many High Crimes and many overts against Standard Tech and scientologists and the greatest one is that the Tech had been already altered, misused and would never exist again in the pure form LRH tried to keep it. And the worst the tech had been ridiculed because all those alterations and “innovations” made it look like a scum.

              On LRH taking drugs. I don’t know if the being who had the identity known as L. Ron Hubbard was in that body anymore by that time. And I don’t need to go into all those details like a private investigator to find out Truth. I found truths at Leb Hall reading the PDCs and the DEI Scale, I found truths dealing with people and seeing the tech works, techwise and adminwise. I even find truths looking into this world and seeing that it needs a helping hand.

              Many people here think I am a nerd. But go ask them “Who are you?” “Do you know who you really are?” “Do you feel “YOUR” THETAN? Or can’t you keep apart from this body?”

              They are not able to tell who they are much less feel “THEIR” thetan. That grieves me Marc. Marty in his book wrote that just with the TRs he was able to exteriorise and understand what the hell is going on. That says a lot to me and it grieves me the whole time to be talking to GEs or sleepy thetans. I want to talk to the Awakened Ones even if not Highly Trained. Because I know the Thing Exists and it’s our only hope in this world. Otherwise we are doomed. Now, this is a big huge overt to not alert people at least about that and i am not participating in its commitment or even omission.

        • dbloch7986

          That is “avoidant personality disorder” at work right there.

      • media_lush

        they were directed at you for being a douche who’s overdosed on his own fart gasses

        • Theo Sismanides

          Together with the Mark guy, just above you, i am not going to communicate with people like you. You can rant all you want.

          • Mark

            Eventually you’re going to run out of people to bore and irritate here, Theo. Quit while you still have some remaining shreds of credibility.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Basta, you are out of my Universe until you put your manners in!

            • Mark

              I believe I apologised for swearing at you (albeit relatively discreetly, in French) after you swore openly and vulgarly at ‘nottrue’ a couple of days ago. If you cannot accept that as good manners, then, to use another French phrase – tant pis!

              By the way, “put your manners in” is not recognisable as English – it sounds like something out of Hubbard. You can “learn some manners”, “acquire” or “gain” them.

            • Robert Eckert

              Too late.

            • Mark

              Well, I was trying to be {polite}, Robert.

              But it’s all a bit “Bάλητε τοὺς μαργαρίτας ὑμῶν ἔμπροσθεν τῶν χοίρων.” (Matthew 7:6).

            • Rex

              I didn’t know you spoke jive

            • Mark

              A little – as well as some gibberish, quite a bit of poppycock, and both the northern and southern dialects of horsefeathers.

            • Rex

              I wish google translate did jive

            • Theo Sismanides

              Well, Mark… there is always a chance… If you wanna really talk… but that will be tomorrow, thanks for the nice greek… good night.

          • media_lush

            you just did, lulz

            • Theo Sismanides

              Basta guys, you are out of my Universe until you put your manners in!

        • Mark

          That would give Theo a fizzy enema, yes? Figures.

      • Rex

        I understand you didn’t “lose your wins.” And because you had a positive experience (which, of course, can’t be invalidated by others) you have some loyalty to LRH.

        One thing I would point out, however, is that there are an infinite number of ways to have “wins” in this life, which come free of charge, are healthy, and are far far less risky than being associated with scientology. And a personal “win” doesn’t mean it’s necessarily healthy (I suppose serial killers have “wins” too). We can’t invalidate your wins. But I can speak out against their circumstances, and the associated human rights abuse.

        • Theo Sismanides

          This I agree with on the human rights abuse. I left the church for that.

          • Rex

            You have restored my belief in humanity, Theo. Thank you!

            • Theo Sismanides

              I think there is good people everywhere… even in Scientology, Rex! lol

            • Rex

              It’s great you left because of the human rights abuse. That’s why I am here, too. Fuck Miscavige! (but please respect that I believe LRH was evil, that’s my personal belief, or reality, and it doesn’t take away your wins). Thanks!

            • Theo Sismanides

              Sure, Rex. Hubbard is gone now. His tech remains. that’s all. Fuck Miscavige yes because he is a tyrant and a dictator.

            • Robert Eckert

              Miscavige is the perfect end product of Hubbard’s Tek.

            • Rex

              Excellent point.

        • Lady Squash

          “And a personal “win” doesn’t mean it’s necessarily healthy (I suppose serial killers have “wins” too). Brilliant Rex, just brilliant.
          However, I sympathize with Theo. I understand his dilemma. Just tonight I used the Scientology term “granting beingness” in a conversation with non-Scientology friends. And as I used it, I recognized that it is a useful term and I felt a moment of gratitude for Scientology. I also had many “Wins” as a Scientologist but am just recognizing now that they were faux wins and that in all those years I did not really grow.
          But the bottom line for me is that LRH was a liar and never had anyone’s best interest at heart than his own. His Technology should come with a black box warning.

      • Robert Eckert

        “I didn’t lose any of my wins. How come?” Because you never “won” anything. You haven’t even won your way through to the understanding that reality does not depend on whether you or anybody else agrees with it.

        • Theo Sismanides

          you are stuck on yesterday’s post Robert. Come to PT!

          • Robert Eckert

            And you’re still stuck on the babblings of a lunatic who died a quarter-century ago.

            • Theo Sismanides

              I was referring to a specific thread, what are you mumbling about? Be specific, people. Learn to be specific, not just throw mud.

            • Robert Eckert

              Is this your idea of confront-and-shatter?

            • Theo Sismanides

              Robert, I am trying to have some sensible discussions with some people. With some we manage, with you… I don’t know. I am not tracking to your answers… wanna have a sensible discussion? Be specific. That’s all i said.

      • Unit G-Xenu’s Other Fist

        Science H. Logic, you’re a fucktard.

    • dbloch7986

      Scientology redefines objectivity as subjective. The only way that you can be certain of the truth of something is if you think it’s true.

      The idea of bank agreement further prevents objectivity because Hubbard says that if multiple people agree on something, it is because it is in their “reactive mind” (or “bank” for those not familiar).

      Soon, objective truth is replaced in the subject’s mind by subjective belief. This, coupled with cognitive dissonance, creates an almost impenetrable armor of delusion. Mix that in with everyone around you fearful of questioning your subjective beliefs, and the false validation of your delusion and you have pure, unadulterated psychosis.

      The idea of being of a “higher level” than everyone below you on the “gradation chart of awareness” creates narcissistic personality disorder. Then the PTS tech creates avoidant personality disorder.

      Then you are suddenly encumbered by mental shackles that would be difficult for some of the most educated people on the planet to remove. Observed in the wealthier portion of Scientology’s membership.

      • cicely neville

        Son, you were made for the groves of academe!

    • ElDroneHubbub

      “They have allowed their “religion” to be taken over by a sociopath who is running it into the ground. If they can “recognize the source of problems and make them vanish,” why haven’t they been able to solve that?”

      Touche.

    • Foxrenard

      “Ability is ability. If you gain the ability to, say, play the piano, you don’t lose that ability because someone invalidates you.”

      –Everything is said! And it’s even the opposite! If someone invalidates you as a pianist, you’ll even get motivated to work harder and play yet better to piss him/her off…

    • Exterrier

      Dead right on! Faith based only. Brilliantly put. I sensed that and I blew when little Chuckie Miscabbage had a special super tent in the Pac Base event where he insisted we all do or redo the PTSSP course immediately, with his Golden Age robotic chanting to walls patter drill revisions. I was in the middle of the course when I realized that the only thing making me feel bad about myself, and slowing me down in life, was this stupid course, organization, and little man and his big ideas; telling me I was not good enough, or thought the wrong thoughts or saw the wrong people, blah blah blah. Having some ignorant enslaved teen age course supervisor shouting “flunk” to me for a day and a half while I tried to recite the forty tone levels to a wall in the exact order and phrasing, when I had a real life and real job to get back to and business to run, was simply subjecting myself to a form of debasement. And I was paying for it!
      The insistence on all of this regimentation and memorization, and standardization in my world, while instilling a fear of other people and their thoughts or ideas struck me as so, so weak and defensive a way to live, that it was obvious Scientology and Scientologists really were not powerful people at all. And I could easily see that they were not. I already had a lot more on the ball than most all of them I met, and they seemed so ignorant and obedient and scared, and this course finally put it all right in my face. Only in their little bubble world did they seem to feel empowered or look remotely effective.
      It felt so good to get mad enough to see the hoodwink that was going on, and to walk off that course in the middle after turning in my cog that I was PTS to this course, just felt great.

      And to say that you had to do this, read this, study this, before you gave yourself permission to be strong and to live your life……was simply another admission of weakness and incompleteness, and actually a self imposed hostage situation.
      The joke is that it is just like Dorothy and the Ruby Red slippers. You have to power to live all along, and you don’t need COB’s or RTC’s or Ron’s permission or a certificate to say so.
      What a joke it all is. I still know people rotting their lives away in the group. We email from time to time, but their lives are shrinking, shrinking, shrinking and they are so sad all the time.

    • maranathasoon

      Absolutely right on Jeff! You popped the bubble. This whole thought control process is a cat chasing it’s tail, like every other “self improvement” technique or process. The only difference with Scientology is that they have incorporated all the thrills of belonging to a mind control cult.

      Plus it’s simultaneously a Ponzi/multi level marketing scheme where the newest members attempt to bring in newer members to be fleeced from their money. And they have swindled their way into being a tax exempt organization. Miscavige should be arrested and jailed just as were Hubbard (I know, he flew the coop before they could nail him) and the original founders of this scam.

      Dave

  • Sherbet

    I just came across this. Karin Pouw? Kirstie Alley?

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      That is freakin hilarious!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      love it

  • 0tessa

    I would ask the pc just one question in this process of ‘problems release’:
    Which problem would be solved if Scientology was not there? This question asked again and again until Very Good Indicators, etc.

  • dwayners13 .

    So basically if your like me & simply don’t have 20 grand on hand to learn the “art & science” of being controlled, you only have a few options.
    A. Go into debt with credit cards or a line of credit (no thanks).
    B. Since taking this course would be considered doing ‘the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics”, it wouldn’t necessarily be out-ethics to rob a bank, embezzle funds from your workplace, partake in a little identity theft, sell crack, sell someone else’s kidneys or start a ponzi-scheme with my fellow thetans.
    C. Sign a billion year contract & join the Sea Org, thus getting hands on experience being controlled, starved & occasionally slapped around.
    D. Join the free-zone & be a lowly, no good &@$! squirrel.
    E. Accept the fact that you just can’t afford to be under the control of the Church of Scientology.

    • Captain Howdy

      As far as ‘B.” is concerned, as long as none of these crimes were committed against a scientologist in good standing, you’d be OK.

      • scnethics

        Running a business that rips people off is definitely OK – I’ve known several scientologists who have done that!

    • scnethics

      Most scientologists can’t afford this stuff! It’s a common situation for a person to first spend all their money and then go into as much debt as they can to get as far as they can up “The Bridge”. I think this is a problem for the church because then the person stays away for a long time, working full time to sort our the fallout from these bad financial decisions. Time away gives you perspective, which can lead to an escape.

      This is, I think, PART of what DM was thinking with “The Basics” program. The Basics program created many small, affordable courses people could buy and work on. This way, even someone who had screwed themselves financially could get on course, and it’s not like they are doing something lowly – DM has mandated that everyone do it. Normally, it would be humiliating for an OT V, who obviously should be moving on to OT VI, to instead be sitting in a courseroom working on a div 6 (public dissemination) book extension course (which is what the Basics courses are, fundamentally). The Basics made that OK, took away the money excuse, making it easier to soak up a public scientologist’s free time (and keep them off those damn interwebs!)

  • Sunny Sands

    Tent watchers. As of today, the privacy fence is completely down on the north side of the empty lot south of sooper powerz, and there are vehicles and activity. This is not the lot that the insiders have identified as the tent lot. That lot is still quiet. I think they have changed plans on which lot to use.

    • aquaclara

      Love the tent reporting!

  • Madora Pennington

    I’m enjoying the journey up the Bridge with you, Claire! The key to getting something out of Scientology was doing very little of it, NEVER going OT and NEVER joining the Sea Org.

    A little of this could improve someone’s ability to control himself, but a lot of it is clearly designed to make a person robotically obedient. No wonder Chairman Mao Miscavige wants everyone doing hundreds and hundreds of hours of this stuff. I absolutely hated some of the objectives and pretended to be done to get out of it. But others truly enabled me to refuse parts Scientology and think for myself. Maybe I ran them wrong?

    Let me point out that these are written as “listing questions” with all the “What is ….” when they would be better as “Tell me about a ….” There are many many attempts in Scientology to give people “wrong items” to make them worse, make them look PTS, ruin their lives, etc.

    • Missionary Kid

      “Chairman Mao Miscavige” On the list of DM nicknames.

      • Captain Howdy

        Chairman Maocavige or Chairman Mousecavige.

        • Missionary Kid

          I’ll add those two. I actually like them better, because I don’t like to spell his name the way he wants people to.

    • Alice Smith

      Too many wrong items received, and you win a trip on the “Introspection Rundown,” which, if you live through it (trick, just ask Lisa McPherson), will make you more accepting of your psychological damage.

      Don’t forget, LRH says that people only end up psychotic and needing the Introspection Rundown because of practices BEFORE they were involved in Scientology. He’s so wise! And what a nice “religion!” Shouldn’t all religions have remedies to drive you more insane after they drive you insane?

  • dbloch7986

    “Thank you for explaining that! One more question whenever you have time, what are twin sessions? (Have a friend who has been a public for ages who never tries to convert me but does sometimes marvel aloud at the merits of his “religion”, and has recently shared he is doing these twin sessions)Also congrats for shaking off the shackles and blowing, that must have been grueling. Lets hope soon a whole lo of them regain their reason and return to this wonderful, imperfect yet marvelous world of FREEDOM!!”

    Hi Satansthetan, if you are still around!

    I decided to reply to this today, since we are back on the topic of auditing/training up the “Grade Chart”.

    “Twinning” is where you work with someone else on the same grade level and you train on the processes and then do them on each other. It’s often promoted as a “cheap” way to do Scientology. Since the cult has shrunk it’s more difficult than ever to find a “twin”. So most people just fork over the cash to get a “professional” auditor.

  • dbloch7986

    I started a new blog guys. This one is fun!

    http://askanex.wordpress.com/

    • Missionary Kid

      Here’s a correction for you, “Also I notice many “lifers” from Scientology go through a stage

    • Missionary Kid

      Oops. That wasn’t your mistake. Sorry.

  • Studious Judious

    So I watched some video clips of OT 8 graduation speeches recently.

    None of them were good at public speaking. Aren’t they supposed to be perfect communicators? They all had notes. Aren’t they supposed to have perfect memory? One even wore glasses!

    Methinks there was an SP present!

    OSA, you better find out who the SP is on the Freewinds because these graduation videos should certainly be used as an example of why Scientology does not work.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6j-fvT0F8M

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Sounds Delusional to me!

    • 0tessa

      This woman has completed communicating telephatically with her body thetans in way of security checking. She has been clearing body thetans of overts on the whole track (History of Man). Can you believe it?! She must be out of her mind now.

      • Robert Eckert

        I bet she still has a thetan in the bathroom, and it’s annoying.

    • Nick Overmyer

      One thing I can just never get past in these internal vids is the music. It always jumps out at me and just screams of a weird sort of detachment from a mainstream culture that would recognize that as some TACKY SHIT. Is that all Miscavige, as well? In Marc’s book, as well as other sources, it’s made very clear that the little man likes to lord over the productions of these things and I would just have to think that includes the godawful music that’s always all over them…right?

      • Poison Ivy

        Oh absolutely, from what Marc and others have said. Apparently being LRH’s cameraman immediately brought him, in his mind, on par with Steven Spielberg and James Cameron as a master of the media arts.

        The visuals and music and editing are INCREDIBLY TACKY! They are very slick, expensive, and highly produced – but they are very reminiscent of a style that was popular when I was doing television in the late ’80’s, early ’90.s. I think Miscavige is stuck in the ’80’s for the most part.

        • Rex

          Nonsense. LRH wrote the definitive book about Art, called “Art” which is the cornerstone for Art education across America. {}

      • Rex

        Nonsense. LRH invented music in a past life. Scientology music is simply too advanced for us to appreciate. {}

    • 1subgenius

      Hey, watch what you say about OT 8’s.

      • sugarplumfairy

        are your brothers and sisters 2subgenious, 3subgenious and 4subgenious?

    • Mark

      What are they – three years old, these videos? Yet the “production values” are thirty years out of date – the cheesy tropical-lounge Muzak (as Nick says below), the clichéd mirror-effect spinning logo, the gold-sprayed foam décor, and the formulaic corporate-speak of the “speeches”. All that cag-mag about space, getting free of your past – and the bring-me-my-vomiting-bowl tributes to “COB” for “keeping the tech pure” – sycophantic drivel that is doubtless strictly enjoined on all new OT8’s to bolster Shortarse’s preening vanity.

      The one thing that’s even older is at the end: the militaristic “hip-hoorays” directed at the airbrushed portrait of a smugly-smiling Slubbard (though his bonce-boil is gone, his chubbo forearm has proved less easy to disguise). They date from an earlier era of oligarchy, that of bellowed Nazi “Sieg heils” and Stalinist “Hourahs”.

      “Truth Revealed” – my arse!

      • dbloch7986

        Yes, you realize the truth is that when you finish paying for your OT VIII, you’re fucked.

        • Mark

          Sideways with the rough end of a pineapple.

    • dbloch7986

      “I don’t have any attention on the past.”

      That might be a good thing, considering that you just wasted a million bucks so that you can, “be space.” And, “forget history.” And, “find yourself.” In fact, Davey is counting on all of you not to pay attention to the past. That way you forget how much you donated!

      • Poison Ivy

        “Davey is counting on all of you not to pay attention to the past. That way you forget how much you donated!”

        ZING!

    • dbloch7986

      I’d love to know where these videos come from lol

      • Rita Gregory

        Apparently they come from space. 🙂

        • WhereIsSHE

          Nahhh.
          SPy;)

          GET THIS, DM: You are SURROUNDED by SPies.

          MUUUUAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA ;p

    • WhereIsSHE

      HOLY SHIT.
      She thanks the Sea Org SLAVES. (“Literally the thousands it took to get me here!Hahahaa!!”
      “Whether you made my bed…. whether you served me lunch…”)

      MADE HER FREAKING BED???

      “SERVED” her lunch ??? (which I’m going to bet was not “beans and rice only”)

      And THIS is supposed to be some sort of enlightened “being”??!

      NO.

      • dbloch7986

        I didn’t even bat an eye. Heh, i got used to hearing that all the time at AOLA.

        • WhereIsSHE

          Well I am suffering a massive case of RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION on your behalf, then!

          • dbloch7986

            And I appreciate that.

            In the back of my mind there is a little voice that calls every Scientologist that has ever walked on the backs of Sea Org slaves, “Fucking bitches.”

            • WhereIsSHE

              Imagine a former, southern, plantation-owner… “thanking” the humans he enslaved to pick cotton in his fields, after 20, 30, 40 years of thankless, unpaid labor, and expecting it to be taken as a sincere expression of enlightened gratitude!
              That is how I see her.

              It literally hurts my HEART… and my BRAIN.
              She didn’t become “enlightened”. She fucking DEVOLVED.

            • dbloch7986

              That’s how all Scientologists are. It’s an egocentric religion. It’s not build on gratitude. It’s built on “exchange”. The word “Thank you” is never used in Scientology, unless it is part of an auditing process. No one says “thank you for your help”. They wait for someone to say “okay i helped you now what are you gonna do for me?”

              In the case of public Scientologists: “I paid 6 million dollars for this level and so i fed and clothed you and gave you a place to live and my child works for you and blah blah blah” So they are justified in walking all over their slaves.

            • Lark Smith

              I’m so glad you are out of there Derek. That is a truly horrific community.

            • WhereIsSHE

              Ditto.

              Derek has more compassion, eloquence and humanity in his pinky toe than this “operating thetan” has in her entire “being”.

            • WhereIsSHE

              Well, I say “thank you”, and on that note:
              THANK YOU for explaining that, Derek.
              As much as I read, there is so much more to learn.

            • dbloch7986

              There’s not much to learn. Just assume that all Scientologists have inflamed egos and senses of self importance. With each one of them thinking that they are better than the other. Even people lower on the grade chart look at some OT VIIIs and say “oh i will be SUCH a better OT VIII than they are when I get there. Look at that piece of shit OT VIII with cancer. I won’t get cancer when I AM OT.” <<< That is not an exaggeration that is something that a Scientologist would say.

            • WhereIsSHE

              I know I shouldn’t laugh out loud at that.. but…. you just made me giggle out loud for a few seconds there=(!
              “Look at that piece of shit OT VIII…”…. PRICELESS, when coming from one Scientologist to another=(!

            • Lark Smith

              OMG! WTF!!! Speechless with anger and OUTRAGE!!! Devolved is absolutely correct!

            • sugarplumfairy

              good god, I missed you, WIS.. and your spot-on, unique slant that makes me look at things in new ways..

            • WhereIsSHE

              and I missed your quit wit (but am enjoying it all over again on a daily basis now that I am back=)

      • sugarplumfairy

        But she can create space, WhereIsShe.. She is space.. And she can be space.. I bet she poops space.. she certainly can speak space..

        • Rita Gregory

          That’s the comment that really got to me “I can BE space!” O.k. As in an empty space or the final frontier kind of space? WTF?

          • Nevermore

            Empty space. Between her ears.

      • i-Betty

        GRRRRRRRRRR.

    • Gabbyone

      She knows TRUTH? Really? That’s as far as I could get. Sorry–I saw for myself just how easily they can lie under oath even about things they don’t have to lie about.

    • Rex

      Another OTVIII who is less inspiring and intelligent than the clerk at Taco Bell.

      Transformation, LRH style!

  • N. Graham

    Drat, I went to EBay ONCE to laugh at the clear bracelets and e-meters for sale. Now EBay thinks that’s what I like and keeps showing me all this Scientology stuff. Maybe if I click on Jenna’s or Lawrence Wright’s book a bunch of times it will switch me to the Anti-Scientology stuff or at least get the idea.

    • Sherbet

      Don’t count on it! I’m still getting emailed “favorites” from way back when.

  • dbloch7986

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH5R_dxBb20

    This guy talks about how it will take him 135 years to get to OT VIII, but he did it faster. Bub, I have horrible news for you: two generations of your family to come will be paying off your debts. 🙁

    • Captain Howdy

      Thing is, OTVlll is the first fully operating thetan level, so they’re stuck at the starting gate..FOREVER! Bawhahahaha

  • media_lush

    Kirstie watch…… there’s definitely something bugging her…..

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Sounds delusional to me. Has Miscavige barred her from Flag yet?

      also…do you know anything about Why Ann Archer and husband believe they should get a tax break on their Colorado movie? (And what exactly is Michael Doven doing as a co-producer)? Hey, maybe Kirstie got turned down for that saloon gal role?

      http://www.showbiz411.com/2013/08/20/super-scientologists-seek-colorado-tax-breaks-to-shoot-golf-movie

      • media_lush

        it’ll be interesting to see how this plays out…. love how there’s forensic scrutiny of anything involving the ‘celeb’ scions nowadays…. I’m sure THR will have one of their guys on it

      • Poison Ivy

        State tax credits for movies. This is just what’s happening in the production world right now. About 60% of all productions (I may be off on that stat; it’s the last one I remember hearing) are now done out of Hollywood, and states with low coffers offer tax credits to filmmakers to entice them to come work there. Bringing a movie or a TV series to a state (or city) can bring a ton of money in if there is a clear structure for it (in fact, so many films and TV series are now done in New Orleans that it’s had a huge effect on bringing the economy back. I know 3 or 4 former LA’ers who bought houses there and now make it their home base). The series MrPI is working on right now is bring about $80,000 a day into the city it is filmed in and creating about 200 local or near-local jobs.

        Some states are better for tax credits than others and the laws change. I didn’t know Colorado was a big tax credit place. Louisiana is, especially New Orleans; Boston; New York is; a couple years ago Michigan was but the legislature just voted the tax credits out.

      • media_lush

        just did a quick search on imdb….. Archer has done very little work since 2009 and not an awful lot before then….. her husband doesn’t seem to have worked since 2005 whilst Mimi Rogers….. you know the one who LEFT scientology has been working constantly and currently on a film right now

        [conclusion….. Archer and hubby have run out of money?]

        • Mark

          Ah, that mahvellous Celebrity Center effect!

    • Jeb Burton

      Hey lush, I hear Suri went to the park. Can you post hundreds of pictures of that?

      • Espiando

        Jeb, the problem is that there are too many people here who enjoy listening to the plaintive and, essentially, pathetic unanswered mating calls of the rare Hollywood Beluga, and there are too few of us around.

      • sugarplumfairy

        You should consider becoming a scientologist.. you have the personality for it..

        • media_lush

          ouch! [lol]

        • Jeb Burton

          He called me the C word. yeah, that one. And he can go after Tom and Katie, but I think the kid should be hands off. I know he thinks he doing a scientology tabloid type of site, but I think the Suri pictures are unhealthy.

          • sugarplumfairy

            I don’t really think you should become a scientologist..

            • Jeb Burton

              Check out the last month of posts or so. Youll see what im talking about.

            • Unit G-Xenu’s Other Fist

              Seeing as I daily check this site, no, there are not “hundreds” of pictures of Suri here. In any of the posts. So you might want to invest in some new eyes, or something.

          • ThetaBara

            Oh, he calls everyone the “c word.” Try Ignore Tech!

            • q-bird

              ha-ha! Ignore Tech! Simple – easy-peasy – let it go & scroll on…

    • sugarplumfairy

      Her new assistant must have quit already.. She’s sounding like her moron self again.. Thanks for keeping us updated, Media.. I like it!

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        Can you imagine getting that job?
        I would put a fork through my ear in the first week!!!

    • Rex

      Yes, Kirstie, it IS sad when people cling to their lies!

      But if lies are “arsenic for the soul,” why was LRH such a big fan of lying?

      • Unit G-Xenu’s Other Fist

        Because he had no soul to begin with?

  • Theo Sismanides

    What I get from Claire, who I knew from LA, she was a very familiar person, is that although she got auditing she didn’t get the wins she was supposed to have. On top of that working close to Miscavige ( I think she was also close to Shelly Miscavige but that’s another story) at the Int Base must have been a nightmare.

    So, Claire, let me tell you that at the basement of ASHO as a Central Files Officer and reading the PDCs at Lebanon Hall at night before securing gave me a much greater sense of freedom than serving Miscavige.

    I feel for your misfortunes I am happy you and Marc and your kids are doing great but I think you didn’t really do Scientology.

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      Theo!
      What an arrogant statement that was.
      She doesn’t see things with your worldview, so you say she didn’t really do Scientology?
      I am really starting to wonder what kind of wonderfulness you can possibly get out of Hubbards crap…because your “theta” sure isn’t showing!

      • Poison Ivy

        Arrogant? A Scientologist? Say it isn’t so, Bury! :-0

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Hahaha……..No kidding! I lost my head there for a minute.

          “know your audience”…slaps myself silly.

      • Lark Smith

        I’d like to add abrasive to arrogant- Dismissing some one else’s experience is not only arrogant but abrasive (rude) as well. The statement lacks compassion or insight- crap Theo you are the perfect Scientologist.

      • Rex

        But I thought the biggest squirrel of all was Miscavige?

      • Theo Sismanides

        It’s not arrogant, it’s straightforward. if you knew what a Thetan is…

        A thetan is like the Beast.. he never gives up… Of course there are broken pieces in the game or those who want to take a rest. but to not have wins after so many years it’s outrageous. Why would she stay there then? I don’t believe her on this. She is just gone PTS guys. She definitely had wins. Same did Marc. They wouldn’t stay that long otherwise.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Who are you trying to convince Theo? Because if you are trying to turn anyone here on to the “Great OT”….um, It isn’t going to work.

          “A thetan is like the Beast”

          ^^^^ At least you finally figured out that Hubbard was a satanist!

          .

        • Unit G-Xenu’s Other Fist

          Problem with that though Theo, is that there IS no such thing as a “thetan,” you twat.

          Show me a scientific study (with actual scientists, if you please, none of Hubtard’s “studies” that never took place) that there is such a thing as a “thetan” and I might start taking you seriously.

          Until then, fuck off with your mouth diarrhoea.

          EDIT: Question, does your arse get jealous with your mouth for the amount of shit it spews?

          • Theo Sismanides

            Look in the mirror, try to look deep through your skull… see that little tiny dot in the middle of your cranium? Lie down on your knees and acknowledge it for all the stupidities you did in life and that from now on, that you know IT exists (obviously YOU are not IT, yet) you will not be messing around anymore. Then there is a chance we get somewhere with you. Good night.

            • Unit G-Xenu’s Other Fist

              WTF? That makes absolutely no sense at all. You are a dipshit.

            • Rex

              He’s talking about chakra points, I suspect. These freezoners read all sorts of stuff, and cherry pick what appeals to them.

            • Unit G-Xenu’s Other Fist

              That was what I thought too, and it still doesn’t scientifically prove any of Hubtard’s dribblings.

              There are no thetans, Theo. Deal with it. Maybe look into becoming a Jedi instead, we still outnumber Freezoners and Scientologists combined 😉 and it makes a hell of a lot more sense than anything Hubbard mouth-breathed out

            • Rex

              You won’t be able to convince him to abandon his personal beliefs since he’s freezone. He needs to convince himself, and that can be catalyzed by being civil. The best cure is for him to read the Bunker (and hopefully not post so prolifically).

            • Unit G-Xenu’s Other Fist

              Fair enough. Hopefully he’ll see the light one day 😉

            • Theo Sismanides

              As far as I am concerned, you and your filthy mouth are banned from my Universe. There is not gonna be any more comm to you unless you show some ethics change.

            • Unit G-Xenu’s Other Fist

              Oh, Theo. That hurts. Deeply, and profoundly. I’m going to cry now.

              Anyway, I have my own Universe to defend. You can have your Hubtard dream.

              He was a con-man, charlatan, and a liar. And I still don’t see any evidence that there are Thetans in existence 😀

              Because there are not 😉

    • media_lush

      before you were just inhaling your own fart gasses …. now it seems like you’re eating your own stools

    • Captain Howdy

      “but I think you didn’t really do Scientology”

      Thank xenu! for that, Theo..otherwise she would have ended up like you. A sci-borg who got kicked out of the collective.

    • dbloch7986

      Do you realize how many people Scientology has hurt? It has never helped a single person. And yet you still insist it is for the greater good.

      I think you’re a few steps away from rejoining the Church of Scientology. Keep defending the indefensible and eventually cognitive dissonance (something you know nothing about for sure) will make you believe it is worth something.

      • Unit G-Xenu’s Other Fist

        Actually, I think it helped 2 people: Hubtard and Miss Savage. Gave them a buttload of cash to do whatever they please with it.

        But that’s as far as it goes.

    • tetloj

      So you’re saying she’s not a real Scotsman…

    • nottrue

      you sure got wins . they threw your dumb ass out so quit crying about it you fool

      • Theo Sismanides

        Another one! Basta with you too amigo! Adios until you correct your foul language (or should I say mind?)

        And I don’t think I am gonna run out of people to talk to, here. There are a lot who can keep their TRs in and have a proper discussion.

        Oust!

        • nottrue

          braindead fool cult didnt even want you

          • Mark

            I think it’s safe to conclude that Theo is a total cult.

        • nottrue

          i saw you at martys kissing his ass calling him a warrior. he dont even want you

          • dbloch7986

            lol

          • dbloch7986

            He don’t tho. I heard TC had Marty’s incisors filed down cuz he used teeth

    • Sidney18511

      Theo…you’ve really got some BALLS to make a statement like that. She was “in” when still a CHILD, joined the SO and took many, many courses. She didn’t “do Scientology”? SHE WAS SCIENTOLOGY! Marc and Claire never “lost” themselves in the scam-tech….they realized it was bullshit, and maybe, one day if your smart enough you’ll realize it too.

      • Theo Sismanides

        so what? maybe because she was IN that young, was a problem. Children are really not treated the way they should in the Sea Org. They are deprived of many things. I was almost in tears to see the children in Denmark. I didn’t want to raise my children like that. Not that the SO was bad for them but the way they treated them. LRH I am sure wouldn’t be like that.

        I got my wins lady, just reading the PDCs. I don’t know about anybody else. I don’t even care. TO have such wins and then come out and say it’s all a scam it’s at least disgraceful.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          “LRH I am sure wouldn’t be like that.”

          This is the guy who had little kids locked up in chain lockers on his cattle ferry!
          Try again!

          • Theo Sismanides

            yeah, I heard about that. I don’t know. LRH was peculiar. I find fault with that.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Well Thank Goodness for that Theo!
              There is plenty of fault to find with a guy who would do that.

            • Theo Sismanides

              I am not looking at the life of Hubbard, I am looking at Scientology. In any case, humans err. Has anybody here ever not committed a crime.

              NOW I START THE CONFESSIONALS! LOL

              P.S. Bury the Nuts (hey I didn’t recognise you girl, with your new photo) this is not intended to you but to the rest here who just accuse, criticise and just blame.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Yeah, I exteriorized into a new AV a long time ago.
              How come you didn’t notice that with your OT powerz ;)?

            • Theo Sismanides

              I am into bed how can I notice. Address me at theo@god.com

            • Jvm3

              Tell me of wins first?

            • Unit G-Xenu’s Other Fist

              Then perhaps you SHOULD look at the life of Hubtard, and how he lied, cheated, and stole from people, lied about his history, lied about having a first wife and child, lied about what Dianetics could do, lied about being an atomic scientist, lied about being injured during his naval career, and all the other lies the man told to make a buck or millions off people that truly wanted to better themselves.

            • Sidney18511

              Take your questions about crimes and shove them up your ass. We live in the real world here. REALITY theo. your the only cult member spewing crazy shit. We don’t do crazy here.

            • dbloch7986

              What the fuck are you serious Theo. Chaining a child in the bowels of a ship, with no source of light, for days, without proper sustenance, thats “peculiar”. Are you fucking serious?

              Before that statement I thought maybe you might just be uninformed. Now I think you’re a fucking douche.

              Children are treated exactly the way Hubbard meant for them to be treated. HUBBARD IS THE ONE THAT HIRED LITTLE GIRLS TO BE HIS “COMMUNICATORS” ON THE APOLLO SHIP. THE SAME LITTLE GIRLS THAT BATHED HIM, CHANGED HIS CLOTHES FOR HIM, INCLUDING HIS UNDERWEAR. Hubbard couldn’t keep a marriage together. He committed espionage against the US government.

              Peculiar my fucking ass. CHILD ABUSE IS NOT PECULIAR IT’S FUCKING EVIL.

            • Captain Howdy

              Not mention the huge ass anchor chain could have killed the kid(s) quite easy when it was in motion.

            • Theo Sismanides

              You guys are hallucinating. Hubbard was the devil and he fucked all the little messengers on the Apollo, right? And he never went to jail for this, right? we all know that. Hubbard was a pedophile, too, right?

            • Espiando

              If being a pedophile was good enough for Jesus, it should be good enough for Hubbard.

            • Captain Howdy

              E is referring to LRH describing Jesus as a pedophile in one version of OTVlll, in case folks are wondering about his comment.

            • Espiando

              Please note to the downvoters: I’m referring to the supposedly spurious (but confirmed by some posters at Marty’s) “original” version of OTVIII, in which Hubbard said that Jesus was a pedophile.

            • dbloch7986

              You don’t find it even a TAD bit creepy that an old fat, gross, toothless tub of lard is surrounded on a ship in the middle of the ocean by a bunch of little girls who change his clothes and bathe him?????

              International waters Theo. You can fuck all the little girls you want there.

              You also don’t find it even a tad bit creepy that ALL OF THE MESSENGERS WERE LITTLE GIRLS????? Why couldn’t he have ADULTS do that work????????

            • Theo Sismanides

              You would like to be in his position eh? Little girls bathing you up! Come on tell us… Confessionals started here. now it gets nasty so I am gonna play nasty too.

            • Rex

              You probably shouldn’t have asked that question.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Rex, it got a bit nasty on their part with the messengers. some people have no limits… anyway thanks it was good to talk with you. I am going to bed now.

            • Rex

              Good night!!

            • Sidney18511

              Good theo….don’t let the door hit you in your ass on the way out.

            • Espiando

              You asked Derek if he wanted to be bathed by teenage girls? You don’t know why Derek was driven out by the Church, do you?

            • dbloch7986

              WOW dude for someone who isn’t defending Hubbard, you sure take insults against him personally. LULZ

              And no, little girls are not my thing. I like big men. Preferably with chest and arm hair, but shaved legs and genitals.

            • Theo Sismanides

              I am not your type. Forget it. Bliaahh!

            • sugarplumfairy

              Lol.. Sorry. Derek, my love.. But that is not a good look for most men.. would take someone verrrry special to pull that off..

            • Jon Hendry

              The “naked mole rat”.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Biggest laugh of the evening. Thank you!

            • Unit G-Xenu’s Other Fist

              You are a true piece of shit

            • Captain Howdy

              Teenage girls in hot pants and halter tops according to the eyewitnesses. And why is LRH starring at Annie Broker’s chest in the photo?

            • Jvm3

              Actually none of the CMOs ever alleged that. Hubbard may have been a greedy, narcissistic con man, but he apparently wasn’t a pedophile. Lets give him some credit for that.

            • Nevermore

              I’m willing to admit that all the shit he was taking left his endocrine system all fucked up, and that as a result he was left impotent. I’m less happy to believe that he didn’t have inclinations, at least while he was still able to have them – why else surround yourself with little girls/teenage girls?

            • Unit G-Xenu’s Other Fist

              He was an unindited co conspirator in the biggest infiltration of the U.S Government, ever.

              Let his own wife and 10 others go to prison for the crap he ordered them to do.

              Yeah, he’s a real stand-up, trustworthy kinda guy.

            • Unit G-Xenu’s Other Fist

              “Peculiar” is putting it rather mildly.

            • Captain Howdy

              Here’s your Guru, Theo. A dirty old man sizing up the CMO “‘raw meat”

        • Jvm3

          Theo I’m not trying to bash, I am honestly just curious. What are some of your biggest wins?

          • Theo Sismanides

            I did write some before, no time now going to bed. Will talk. goodnight.

        • Sidney18511

          Theo you are discusting. You should of stayed in law school and maybe you wouldn’t of lost your marbles. LRH was a PIG.

    • Snuzey

      I’m glad you’re here and posting Theo, and I truly hope you ‘see the light’ sometime soon. I think Claire might dispute your assertion that she didn’t do $cientology, but then you have a different REALITY to the rest of, well, almost everyone eh?!

      (I realise I probably shouldnt have said that word)

      • Theo Sismanides

        no you said it right. I have a different reality than everyone else, it looks like, even Claire. Speak freely…I don’t mind.

    • dbloch7986

      QUIT TRYING TO DEFEND HUBBARD. THE MORE YOU DEFEND HIM THE MORE OF AN ASSHOLE WE ALL KNOW YOU ARE.

      • Theo Sismanides

        I am not defending any fucking Hubbard… god… you guys… it’s so hard to differentiate… I am defending my fucking philosophy which has been abused by the many, by the evils, by the stupids, by the ignorants, the lazy ones, the careless ones, those who don’t want anything to do with man as a spirit… That’s what I am doing.

        • dbloch7986

          Your philosophy that embraces child abuse, misogyny and invasion of privacy??????????

          • Theo Sismanides

            you tell us about the little messengers, ok? are you jealous? would you like too, to have similar messengers in the middle of the ocean? Come on! Don’t be shy… spit your filthy imagination all over the place so that the morons believe you!

            • Snuzey

              Thats right, deflect from the fact that you dote on the words of lying wanker.

            • Rex

              He’s against the abuses. That’s why he left.

            • Theo Sismanides

              let them Rex… some are like the wolves Espiando described. As soon as someone who is not alpha male or alpha female in the family wants to have sex, they get excommunicated. a pack of wolves. Pffff!

            • Sidney18511

              You are stepping over the line now theo. are you making excuses for hubbards prepubescent messengers? Are you saying that “what man wouldn’t want 12 year old children dressing him, and catering to his every whim ” NEWSFLASH theo…….his bizarre bahavior with his little girls is not normal.

              Maybe Derek is jealousy that he couldn’t throw 50 year old woman 40 feet overboard or lock a 4 year old in a chain locker?
              Your crossing the line. Hubbard was nuts!

            • Theo Sismanides

              Yawning… ! good night! (the yawing goes on the comment)

            • dbloch7986

              I’m jealous that Theo is surrounded by all those oiled up Grecian gods and I’m here in LA with all the stuck up queens.

              Yawning Theo, you should look up your MUs.

            • Mark

              You should try Spain, Derek – lots of hairy men there!

            • Espiando

              Nah, he’s actually better off somewhere closer to Greece, namely Turkey. They’ve turned the hairy chest/shaved crotch thing into an art form there.

            • Mark

              Bears with Brazilians!

            • dbloch7986

              Gross too much hair in Turkey! LOL I like hair, but not a carpet lulz

            • Espiando

              Well, if you find one you don’t like, throw him over to me. The bearier, the better.

            • dbloch7986

              I like hairy, but not THAT hairy. I had a friend who shaved his chest and it made my sad. 🙁 lol

        • nottrue

          hubbard is your philosphy DUH

          • nottrue

            i know be nice but when he talked bad about Claire i flipped

            • Unex Skcus

              Perhaps he’s just gone “A Bridge Too Far”?

        • Captain Howdy

          So if someone said to you they thought that National Socialism was awesome, but Hitler was deeply flawed, you’d be OK with that?

          “Once the world is Clear – a nation, a state, a city or a village – the Scientology-organization in the area becomes its government! And once this has taken place the only policy accepted as valid is Scientology policy.”
          – L Ron Hubbard

          • Rex

            You can’t convince a freezoner to abandon their philosophy. But you can encourage them to participate in the dismemberment of corporate scientology, which they will. Happily.

            • Theo Sismanides

              I think you are the sanest guy here. Sanity: the ability to differentiate. Thank you ,Rex.

            • Rex

              Any time, Theo.

            • Captain Howdy

              I’m not here to change anybody’s mind. I’m a soldier.

            • Rex

              Are you fighting the personal beliefs of freezoners, or the abuses of the corporate cult?

            • nottrue

              hubbard is shit

            • Rex

              Of course he is shit. But Hubbard will persist unless the libraries are burned. What can be eliminated is the corporate cult. And we have lots of indies and freezoners willing to help us with that goal- but we drive them off. My whole point is about being pragmatic. And Tony has always said it’s about the practices, not the beliefs.

            • nottrue

              if you bad mouth a person like Claire you can kiss my ass thats what theo did to piss me off

            • Rex

              I said nothing regarding Claire, why would I? what do you think I said?

            • nottrue

              theo did i didnt say you

            • Rex

              Sorry, I get you

            • Rex

              I’d love to know who down voted this.

            • nottrue

              i did

            • Rex

              Figures

            • nottrue

              PREACH YOUR FREEZONER SHIT TO SOMEONE ELSE NOT TO ME

            • Rex

              I’m not a FZ, obviously

            • nottrue

              you can kiss freezone idie butt but i dont want to

            • Robert Eckert

              It’s always been a controversy here how to deal with those who still want to find “value” in some of Scientology. There are indies like Karen delaC and Sam Domingo who are good friends with everyone, and then there are some who wig out and attack people, sometimes without recognizing that they are doing so (I don’t think Theo intended so much to attack Claire as to cope with his own cognitive dissonance), and those cases have to be considered very differently. I am not inclined myself to let Hubbardian dribble go without argument, but I try not to get too angered either. At the very least we can try not to fight each other over our differing cutoff points for how much we can stand.

            • nottrue

              i speak for my self. not the bunker

            • Robert Eckert

              Nobody speaks for the Bunker. Even Tony avoids doing so. Each Bunkerite speaks for him/herself. It sometimes gets heated, and sadly some have left and may have felt chased down, but no-one has been banned. Tony has occasionally had to delete posts, and could ban if needed, but the overall level of civility here is actually quite remarkable.

            • nottrue

              tony can delete or ban me if he wants. no hard feelings

            • Robert Eckert

              It takes intense obscenity and/or baseless criminal accusations (preferably baseless accusations of conduct that is intensely obscene as well as criminal) to get a post deleted, and nobody knows what it would take to get banned.

            • nottrue

              i say what i want. if that gets me ban so be it.

            • Rex

              Yes, I try not to get angy too, since I despise LRH. But I want every kid out of that cult, and we need all the help we can get.

            • nottrue

              good point robert

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Wise as always Robert. Cool heads rule the day.

            • dbloch7986

              I don’t know who gave you one but I gave you two. You’re wrong Rex. Anywhere Scientology is being practiced, there is abuse happening. It’s part and parcel to the whole Scientology game. It’s not about “corporate” scientology. It’s about “scientology”. Scientology is abusive.

            • Rex

              I know you think that, and I do to, but I have not seen any evidence of abuse in freezone or indies. Only hypotheticals, of which I am acutely aware. Without evidence, I can’t see the advantage of antagonizing allies in the destruction of the corporate cult.

            • nottrue

              the evidence is in the teaching of a mad man

            • Rex

              There is no evidence “in the teaching of a mad man” that antagonizing allies in the fight against the Church is smart. I don’t believe in weakening the offensive for illogical reasons.

            • WhereIsSHE

              Rex-
              With all due respect, the freezoners and indies are in greater need of our alliance than we of theirs, and they don’t hesitate to blather on about their “great friend, Ron”, blahblahblah.
              It gets on my last nerve if I let it, but it doesn’t make me want to NOT help them in the goal of dismantling the corporate cult.
              We have to be free to express our opinions.
              Some people here are religious. Some identify as “spiritual”. Some of us believe in science and evolution and not in fairy tales about a magic friend in the sky. (See what I just did there?! I am in a wascally wabbit mood tonight, for sho’)

            • Rex

              “the freezoners and indies are in greater need of our alliance than we of theirs”

              This is where we disagree. I can’t imagine a more effective tool to bring down Scientology Corp than all the inside information these people have. Rathbun and Rinder have helped Tony. Many nameless FZ and indies have helped Tony. Perhaps the best person on the planet to answer the question “should we treat them as allies” is the Proprietor.

            • Robert Eckert

              Tony’s reputation is good because of Tony. I seriously doubt that anybody’s willingness to co-operate with Tony will be affected for either good or bad by anything that *I* post. I’m just not that damned important.

            • WhereIsSHE

              Rex-
              No one here is suggesting that we not “treat them as allies”.
              We are simply expressing our right to FREE SPEECH, which is why the overwhelming majority of never-been-ins got into this topic in the first place.
              CENSORSHIP is not an option.

              If Theo comes here and attacks Claire with some snide comment about how she didn’t do it (Scientology) properly, he is going to get some guff from this crowd, and he knows it.
              Some people enjoy poking others. I call them “Shit Disturbers”. (“SDs”).

              Theo can be an SD.
              And when an SD pokes a pack of proud SPs… it is going to cause a DUST UP (“DU”).

              Are you GETTING THIS so far?
              We can sit in a room and repeat it for hours if that would be OF ASSISTANCE (“OA”).

            • q-bird

              WhereIsSHE – May I ask, have you read up on / listened to Tory “Magoo” Christman’s story?

            • WhereIsSHE

              Yep. I love her blog.
              I love that Andrea got her to wake up the way he did.
              I have compassion for people on the inside.
              I have compassion for the indies.
              But I also believe in freedom of speech.

            • WhereIsSHE

              For instance… you don’t see me going onto Marty’s site or Mike’s site and posting SD (that’s SHIT DISTURBER, for those who missed my new acronym posts above) comments there.
              I read there from time to time, and that’s about that.
              I don’t go pick fights with anyone.
              But if someone comes here and posts WACK-A-DOODLE (“W-A-D”) comments, and particularly if said W-A-D comments include ad-hominem attacks on someone like Claire Headley, I may exercise my right to free speech in reply. Or I might not. Depends on my CURRENT MOOD (“CM”).

              (My CM is obviously in high anti-SD/anti-W-A-D mode tonight.)

            • q-bird

              Yes. I hear you WIS. I am in agreement with you on all counts. Freedom of speech is key. The freedom to express one’s self on this blog specifically is of great value to me. I personally find it a truly remarkable, interesting, and important place to hang out. Tory, posting as a scientologist, could not understand why so many people were so mean to her & then it was some kindness along side the harsh truth that woke her up. I always try to keep that in mind when listening to the adherents of FlubbTARD… who I despise with the precise hatred of a thousand fire-breathing harpies. That being said, I am grateful for the bunkerites here who have the patience, knowledge & gumption to entertain conversations with folks like Theo.
              p.s. l love & appreciate your acronyms as well as your bold & fearless posts.
              cheers to you WhereisSHE.

            • WhereIsSHE

              =)
              Never let a bird perch on top of your head.
              A) It’s an assertion of dominance, and more importantly,
              B) You are sure to get shit upon by said bird.

              I feel more compassion for the kids who had no choice… and for the hippy-idealist types who got in way back in the early days, and who really believed it was about helping other people…
              I have less compassion for the ME-ME-ME and MY ETERNITY and MY KNOWINGNESS and MY STATUS and MY TRUTH crowd.
              Sure, I would like them ALL to get out/wake up, but it’s near impossible for me to have compassion for some woman who emptied her fat bank accounts to get to OT VIII, all the while looking upon members of the Sea Org as her servants, in a sense, and thereby helping to fund the keeping of children as slave laborers, deprived of the very necessary love and “safe haven” that parents are meant to provide their children.

              Thanks for liking my silly acronyms;) It was fun to entertain myself, but it’s always nice to have someone else in on the joke=)

            • Rex

              You don’t need to explain it to me. I’ve been here for years. I’ve always advocated for inclusiveness, with limits. I am a big LRH hater. But I’m still civil.

            • WhereIsSHE

              “with limits” is the issue (or the problem, when you are dealing with the fundamental right to freedom of speech)

            • nottrue

              control what i say no way . Civil yes

            • Rex

              Say whatever you want. My goal is to get abused kids out of SCN, what is yours?

            • nottrue

              you do it your way. i do it mind. i dont care how you do it. so why do you care how i do it

            • Rex

              Because your way is less pragmatic and less strategic and I like to win

            • nottrue

              i do it my way so live with it

            • Rex

              Not when it hurts people, idiot.

            • nottrue

              be civil now

            • Rex

              No, you undermine perfectly good strategy to wage war against the cult, and behave like a 5 year old.

            • nottrue

              im a bad boy

            • nottrue

              ill take it easy on the freezoners and idies just for you. im not into hateing

            • Rex

              “We are simply expressing our right to FREE SPEECH, which is why the
              overwhelming majority of never-been-ins got into this topic in the first
              place.”

              I have to disagree. I don’t think the majority of people started to protest scientology to be free speech advocates. I think the majority of protesters did it to stop human rights abuses perpetrated by the cult.

            • WhereIsSHE

              Tell that to ANONYMOUS.

            • Rex

              If you are talking about the retraction of the Tom Cruise video, you are talking about chanology and the lulzfags. The ones left here are the moralfags.

            • WhereIsSHE

              People can be both a) free speech advocates and b)moralfags, yes?

              I just don’t understand why you believe that it’s OK for Theo to post without “civility” to others here, but it’s NOT OK for others here to post critically in reply.

            • Rex

              Sure, but my impression is that the lulzfags who were upset about the tom cruise video bailed out long ago

            • dbloch7986

              You’re wrong about the “majority”. I guarantee you that every single person here has an entirely different reason for being here.

              Labels suck, let’s avoid them.

            • Rex

              I know you are not here because of 4chan. Most people here are not chanology. That means it’s about human rights abuse.

            • WhereIsSHE

              What, no upvotes for my new acronyms?!
              That is TOO BAD (“TB”), because I am having my own little WIN PARTY (“WP”) here!

              I could do this ALL NIGHT (“AN”)!
              It’s FUCKING ADDICTIVE (“FA”)!!

            • dbloch7986

              Do you really, for a second, think that without the church in the way another money hungry Scientologist will not pop up demanding tax exempt status and another church? Scientology has policies in place that teach people how to establish and run a church just like Hubbard did. David Miscavige II will pop up in no time and a whole new slew of families will be ruined.

            • Rex

              “Do you really, for a second, think that without the church in the way
              another money hungry Scientologist will not pop up demanding tax exempt
              status and another church?”

              Yes, because LRH in print is so intensely repugnant, without having the original hypnotist, in person to charm people in to thinking otherwise, and the totalitarian iron curtain he designed from day 1.

            • WhereIsSHE

              Rex-
              They are the ones who are being hounded by the squirrel-busters, i.e. the fuck-nuts who follow them around and video them in some attempt to intimidate them, and/or who have to deal with false reports to officials about how they care for their pets in their homes, etc, etc, etc.
              Of course anyone who learns about the abuse and the fraud (on Scientologists and on our tax base as a result of a criminally obtained religious exemption, thank you very much, Marty for being of such help to the cult on that one) wants a “united front”, so to speak, but the fact is that if all of “us” just walked away and decided to focus on some other tragic mess, the indies and FZers would still be DECLARED, DISCONNECTED and HARASSED.

              How the hell does critical response to one shit-disturbing Indie (and, for the record, he identifies himself as an “Indie” and not a “FZer”, for whatever that means to those who make the distinction) on this blog –which is known to be highly critical of Hubbard on a routine basis– make you suspect that people who are being REAL LIFE STALKED and HARASSED by OSA and brainwashed minions and outside-hired-help are going to thumb their collective noses at “us” as “allies” against the corporate machine?

              It’s good for people to let Theo know that if he crosses certain boundaries here, he is going to see some critical response.
              No one is censoring him! He is free to post what he believes.
              And so no one should censor critical response (so long as it doesn’t involve any criminal intent or threat, which I have never seen here, btw).

              People who were in a cult need to wake up at their own pace, but part of waking up is being able to tolerate critical information, whether they like it or not.
              If we just love-bomb them here, no matter what nonsense they post, how are we not being dishonest with them?
              Who wants to trick anyone into being an ally???
              What good does that do to the person(s) you tricked????
              Seems a bit hypocritical to me in view of how these people were tricked into buying a bridge to destitution and disconnection in the first place.

            • dbloch7986

              Your friend Theo advocated child abuse. Over at Marty’s blog they blame victims of the cult for pulling their own abuse in on themselves.

              Rex, Scientology is evil. In practice and in belief. Tony focuses on practice because it keeps him out of petty quarrels with journalists involving comparisons between Scientology’s alleged beliefs and other religions’.

              However, I have no such responsibility and am happy to engage you on the subject of Scientology’s beliefs.

            • Rex

              Theo is not my friend. He is a freezoner. I despise LRH.

              Scientology is evil indeed. I am qualified to argue with you about how evil LRH was.

            • dbloch7986

              Hahaha okay, we don’t need to argue about that because we are in agreement.

            • Unit G-Xenu’s Other Fist

              And that is part of the reason I have a massive issue with Rathbun. Because he still thinks Hubtard was infallible, and calls himself a “warrior” when he is so far from it that it actually makes me physically ill thinking about it.

            • WhereIsSHE

              Beliefs put into practice can be deadly.

            • Rex

              Especially when there is a malignant corporation built around those beliefs. And in this case, it is only when there is a malignant corporation enforcing those beliefs. If you have evidence otherwise, I’m all ears.

            • WhereIsSHE

              Rex- I am not fighting the FZers (I don’t even know who they are or where they are and I don’t seek them out), and I am not fighting the Indies (I respect Karen immensely; I think Marty has his own little-big battle with Miscavige, and like an angry dog in a backyard fight, he’s got his teeth sunk in and has no intention of letting go, no matter what anyone here types into a comment box, and is otherwise a down-the-rabbit-hole-mess who has neither accepted responsibility nor shown remorse for his reported, numerous and serious crimes; I think Rinder is more pragmatic/not looking to be anyone’s Guru, and fuck if I care what woo-woo he personally practices, because he doesn’t come here and attack the likes of Claire Headley the way that Theo did tonight, for example.)

              Theo had to know, because he has a history of “pushing buttons” around here–and getting it handed back to him in spades–, that he was going to get into it with people here tonight after he posted that nonsense.
              He must enjoy it, because he keeps coming back for more.
              Is Theo really representing the entire Indie or FZ movement?
              I missed that vote tally.
              On a mental level, he is akin to one of those “smart-ass masochists”, i.e. those who get a charge out of provoking others to get into it with him.
              And he is free to do that, just as people here are free to respond.

              Are people here also violating your rules of civility and the “limits” you would suggest we impose on our speech when they refer to Hubbard as “Hubtard”, for instance?
              Wouldn’t that be just as potentially, if not more, offensive to an Indie or a FZ who still hold “Ron” in high esteem??
              I mean.. Theo isn’t Ron.
              So responsing to something Theo posts by addressing Theo is not the same as the numerous posts about what a total fraud and huckster Ron was, right?

            • GlibWog

              Rex.. Hubbard is NOT persisting. Statistics are proving the Libraries Do NOT want those stupid books.. and the Ones they have are NOT being checked out..

              Hubbards Legacy will be that he was a Liar, a Con Man .. Evil to the Core.. Fair Game? He has become a laughing stock.

              When Hubbard is being worshipped and his stupid gibberish is being spoken .. the word Tech and Wins being talked about.

              It only reinforces the pain that many ( if not most) posters in the Bunker are being or has been exposed to.

              Have you read their stories? I am only one person, but this is the way that I feel.
              I hate Scientology.. I hate the Cult.. I Hate Hubbard and I hate DM..

              When the people here that I am really starting to feel for are being destroyed by this evil.. It is very difficult for me to hear the Bull Shit attached to it.

            • Rex

              I agree, LRH’s staying power is the same as the Ford Fiesta. It’s unappealing, and won’t last for long. But it’s naive to think we can annihilate an idea. The internet won’t let that happen. We can make sure LRH is permanently made a laughing stock, but we can’t prevent someone (like a freezoner) who is already convinced, to burn their copy of dianetics. So we should let the indies and FZ help us.

              The fastest way to stop the abuses is to eliminate the corporate cult.

            • Captain Howdy
            • dbloch7986

              I speak out against abuse in Scientology. I don’t care where the fuck it’s practiced.

            • GlibWog

              I’m a Warrior oops that spot has already been taken.

          • Theo Sismanides

            you should provide the exact reference. This is verbal tech. Provide at least a number of HCOB or PL or something.

            In any case I am going to bed. write to me at theo@god.gr (sorry, .com) I will be picking up my emails tomorrow.

            Oh, and your example with National Socialism and Hitler….? It sucks… bye.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              HCOB 1960-06-23

              take that to bed with you!

            • Theo Sismanides

              yeah I want miss that. Cool.

            • Captain Howdy

              “yeah I want miss that.”

              That’s because…

              http://youtu.be/UXoNE14U_zM

            • Theo Sismanides

              Shop is closed buddy… too late! send it at theo@god.com

            • WhereIsSHE

              LOL! You just reminded me of one of my all time favorite Kids-In-The-Hall skits: “NOBODY HOME.”

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9ucJAV3rVU

            • Robert Eckert

              I don’t have enough money to pay for this COB…

            • Theo Sismanides

              Hahaha! That must have been a good show! I agree NOBODY HOME! hahahaha. I should use it here to… crash their heads and… their computers….. hahaha! Thanks it was funny!

            • Captain Howdy

              BAM!

              You dah Queen.

              http://youtu.be/dY9PY4r83p8

            • Couch_Incident

              BTN, you are on top of your game girl!

            • aquaclara

              Here is my exact reference, Theo.
              Col. 3:12 Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.

              Or try this. Gal. 5:22
              The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, and faithfulness.

              Your example of HCOB? It sucks. Sorry. I am just tired of all the hurt that those particular citations have brought to far too many people. Try my references. They are filled with hope and love. And compassion for you, too. No pressure.

            • Theo Sismanides

              what are you talking about. I asked for a number from the reference. Like you provide, Gal. 5:22 or Col. 3.12… by the way what’s Gal and Col stand for? sorry, I wouldn’t know them in english.

            • aquaclara

              Gal and Col stand for Galatians and Colossians. Books of The Bible.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Ah ok thanks!

            • aquaclara

              You’re welcome. My Greek is significantly less impressive than your English!
              These references are filled, as I mentioned, with hope and love. And compassion for you.
              Hope you find your way all the way out of the Hubbard world.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Please just say I find my own way… all else is evaluations and they don’t help anyone. I hope you have found your way.

              As to your Greek we can practice here. Do you know any words? It’s an old language but ancient Greek is worthwhile learning as it is a language of a greater civilization.

            • aquaclara

              I know a few words, like Philia, Eleutheria, agape, and Sophia, like St Sophia. And good food words – does that part count?! There is a very lovely Greek community in Florida, near Clearwater, that retains a Greek heritage and traditions. The Greek Orthodox Church there is modeled after the St Sophia church in Constantinople, and holds a big festival every year.

            • Theo Sismanides

              ahhh… Φιλία, Ελευθερία, Αγάπη και Σοφία like Αγία Σοφία.

              Thanks for this info and sure good food words do count. Like mousaka (μουσακάς) souvlaki (σουβλάκι) gyro (γύρος), greek salad (χωριάτικη σαλάτα, choriatiki salata, we call it village salad), olives (ελιές) olive oil (ελαιόλαδο, eleolado), ouzo (ούζο) etc. etc. hahaha! We are still good one those.

              I am happy the Greek Orthodox Church is doing good over there. It keeps the Greek spirit alive.

            • aquaclara

              Don’t forget the baklava!

          • GlibWog

            Captain.. OMG I came back to say the exact same thing.. I have been thinking about it and what I could compare it to.. and thought of Hitler.. You beat me to it!

        • WhereIsSHE

          So now anyone who doesn’t “want anything to do with man as a spirit” is “stupid”, “ignorant”, “lazy” and “careless”?

          Hey, Rex…
          If you are still hanging around…

          I am not into censoring Theo here.
          I think it’s better that we all see what he really believes, quite frankly.
          But you have different views.
          You want to have “limits”, right?
          So where are you now??
          Should there be “limits” on Theo? Or is he too important an “ally” in the fight to be addressed on “civility”? Hmmm???

          • Robert Eckert

            Nobody is going to censor Theo, or place limits on him. Some will express their disagreements, annoyance, or disgust at him. And nobody will censor those people or place limits on them either. Theo can fight back, or change his ways, or leave, all of those choices being purely up to him.

            • WhereIsSHE

              Thanks, Robert.
              Exactly.
              There is no censorship here.
              He can post, and others can respond.

              Rex was suggesting that we not respond in certain ways to Theo, for fear that it would cause a rift between “us” and the Indies/FZ crowd, and that we (or some of us) should forgo freely expressing ourselves critically in order to maintain some sort of allied, united front with the Indies/FZers against “corporate Scientology”.
              I have been trying to establish that it’s just as OK for people to respond critically –and in whatever “tone” they feel is appropriate to express themselves (caveat: so long as no criminal intent is expressed that leads to any act in furtherance thereof)– as it is OK for Theo to post his thoughts (or … meaningless string of words, which he sometimes opts to do).

              Rex wanted us to engage in self-censorship in the name of keeping all of the Indies/FZers as “allies”.
              I posed the question along the lines of: Who wants to TRICK people into being “allies” by censoring our honest, critical opinions?
              I also pointed out that they are in far greater need of our “assistance” (our critical voices, at the very least), since they are the ones who suffer the likes of OSA black PR and fair game…the squirrel busters, and the false reports to officials about how they keep house and/or tend to pets, etc, and I doubt that they will thumb their collective noses at all of us and our helpful voices just because they don’t like what some of us might type into a little box in response to some nonsense that Theo posts here.

          • Theo Sismanides

            It’s times we ended the kiddy stories. If Man is to progress he has to really know who he is. Do you really have a problem with that too?

    • Unex Skcus

      Wow, it’s really Tom Cruise in disguise! “You don’t know [whatever]. I do.”

      Seriously, have you been playing tug-o-war with cyclops?

    • dbloch7986

      Rule number #9,708 from the Scientology victim known as Derek: All Scientologists will show you what sick, twisted and angry assholes they can turn into as soon as you begin to challenge their beliefs. They will then come back and apologize blaming it on “lack of sleep”, “lack of food” or other “out ruds”.

      All Scientologists are the same person. That’s why it’s so hard to tell them apart. They are all EXACTLY the same.

      Rex, you can come and preach the indy/fz philosophy that it’s all about the “Corporation” all you want. But you are wrong. All Scientologists are abusive. Scientology is abusive. I can promise you that anywhere Scientology is being practiced, there is abuse happening.

      • Rex

        Outside of the criminal corporation, I’m not sure you can prove that, but I would be interested.

        • dbloch7986

          Marty Rathbun still has followers who pay him for auditing. That’s abuse.

          • Rex

            I’ve seen the evidence of the corporate abuse, Derek. You have spoken of it quite eloquently. My argument is not with the indies. Yours very well might be, but I haven’t seen evidence of any documented abuses in that setting yet.

            • dbloch7986

              My argument is with Scientology. It’s like saying that Bernie Madoff’s scheme was bad, but Bernie is okay AND if his employees were allowed to continue operating after he was gone.

            • Rex

              I could be wrong, but I thought there was a totalitarian atmosphere of intolerance, ban on verbal tech, threat of disconnection, devaluation of human life, financial destruction, involuntary hypnotism, forced ethics, etc. in the Corporation. Does this all happen simultaneously as LRH intended, outside of the Corporation? After following Tony for several years, this was not my impression.

      • Theo Sismanides

        hey, guys are you gonna listen to a person who admits he is a Victim? Derek the Scientology Victim! Like the Christians… all victims and martyrs. Why does it hurt you that someone (Rex) had a nice conversation with me? And then Scientology is abusive. You are not abusive, at all, eh?

    • aquaclara

      Praise the good Lord for that. Claire and Marc and the cutie-pie Baby Headleys are relishing their “misfortunes” of freedom and joy. Now it is time to end the {“delightful” } little trait of disconnection, so the family can be whole once again. (Note: i said “WHOLE”not “HOLE”, you SOB COB)

      • Theo Sismanides

        That’s great, they were brave and i admire them for that. I know how it went with disconnection in the crazy church, believe me, and I was never a fanatic on that. This is why I am out too and i was very happy to talk to Mr. Headley right here and on very good terms. We have more to share than some can think of.

  • Sherbet

    Is tomorrow Bunker Night at The TomKat Project? I can’t wait for a review, plus a report on whether OSA was taking notes and names of the attendees.

    • sugarplumfairy

      =(

      Can’t believe I’m going to miss the opportunity to see my hero in person.. Couldn’t get off work.. I might consider taking a mental health day but my mental health is stellar so that would just be wrong!! Besides, I have most of the staff of my OR reading this bunker, so I’d be busted pretty quick..

      But cousin and I have tickets for the weekend.. Better late than never..

      • Snuzey

        If you have most of the staff reading this bunker…
        OI YOU LOT LET HER GO!!!!!!! Cover her ass you meanies!

        • sugarplumfairy

          thanks, Snuz.. All donations gratefully accepted..

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            I’m still wondering about a Mental Health day?! That is new to me. I like the sound of it.

            • Captain Howdy

              Sounds delusional to me.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Are you going to report her to Miscavige now?

            • Theo Sismanides

              you do that. i am not reporting to Miscavige and never did. I am proud of that. I am a free man and an Indie Scientologist. I report to no one, except God! Don’t expect answers tonight, I am going to bed. For more info write to theo@god.com

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              When you see God, tell him he owes me 728 Sunday’s and I want every last one of them!!!!

            • Theo Sismanides

              you are so funny! I will, I will…. hahaha, you made my day (night)…. goodnight from Greece!

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Good Night Theo.

            • nottrue

              scientology has no god. hey maybe your waking up

            • sugarplumfairy

              goodnight, Theo..

            • WhereIsSHE

              you really are a sugar plum fairy=)

              glad you are here to balance me out;) (i can be a wascally wabbit sometimes;)

            • sugarplumfairy

              You’re right and you have the balls to say what you mean.. Reading Theo just makes me sad.. It must be awful to feel you have to fight the whole world alone.. makes me want to annihlate hubbard.. (note to any co$ attorneys reading this comment: i’m all talk and have no intention of seeking out the reincarnated hubbard for the purposes of doing him any actual bodily harm..)

            • WhereIsSHE

              I love that you are so kind-hearted.
              I have compassion for him, too.
              On the other hand…
              He comes here voluntarily, knowing what he is “up against”.

              I could go bang my head against the wall and post quotes like the following on some religious fundie site (but I have no interest in banging my head against the wall;):

              “Faith can be very very dangerous, and deliberately to implant it into the vulnerable mind of an innocent child is a grievous wrong.”
              ― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

              “Do not indoctrinate your children. Teach them how to think for themselves, how to evaluate evidence, and how to disagree with you.”
              ― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              My favorite anti-religion song…and damn kickass song it is too! For you and Monkey Knickers:

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIPvc0jOhRI

            • aquaclara

              No, of course you don’t. But if you change your mind, I’ll be happy to help. Since I can’t fit in that very cute red dress of WhereIsShe,I am going to work on my anti Scilon fitness routine. Apparently, there are Scilons that LRH is STILL ALIVE.

              Really.

            • sugarplumfairy

              If he is still alive, I bet he looks reeeeally bad..

            • aquaclara

              Especially since he didn’t look so fantastic before he passed into meat body land.

            • Free Minds, Free Hearts

              Really? There are some who believe LRH is alive? Should we have a new campaign, where is LRH?

            • aquaclara

              Totally unscientific, but it was “common Scientology knowledge” in the early 2000’s in Florida, apparently, since the word that circulated back to regular people was that they were all still waiting for him to come back. It started from the moment of his disappearance, and hadn’t really gone away fifteen years later that I could tell.

              Of course, there are people who still believe Elvis is alive too, but I don’t see those people building offices for him all over the world….

            • WhereIsSHE

              I’m sad that you are going to bed, because I’d love to know what happens when you “report to…God”.

              Like… have you reported to “God” that Shelly Miscavige is MISSING?? Or that DM is “squirreling” the “tech”??

              That CHILDREN are being ENSLAVED in the Sea Org?????

              And, if so, what the fuck is wrong with “God” that he is ignoring you and doing NOTHING about your reports???

              OR…

              if “God” IS doing something in response to your reports… can you start reporting to “God” about ..oh.. I dunno… THE MASS RAPE AND MURDER OF DARFURI MEN, WOMEN AND CHILDREN IN WESTERN SUDAN, perhaps?? Or.. you could even start with the HELL-ON-EARTH that North Korea is (and cite this NYT article, perhaps, because it is HOT off the presses): http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/21/world/asia/north-korean-defectors-tell-un-panel-of-prison-camp-abuses.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

              OK! Thanks, Theo!!
              And SWEET DELUSIONS!! (I mean.. DREAMS;)

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Can I get your picture? I’d like to lose my tattoo virginity with your mug on my arm.

            • WhereIsSHE

              Flattery will get you everywhere;)

            • WhereIsSHE

              I wish I knew how to share a .jpeg here.
              I have a photo in mind for you.
              WhereIsSHE in Red=)

            • Robert Eckert

              Get a flickr or photobucket account, upload it there, cut-and-paste the link.

            • WhereIsSHE

              thanks, Robert

              photobucket reports that i already have an account–who knew?!
              waiting for their email to me to arrive so i can reset my password (and then try to upload the photo i have in mind!)

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              When you make a post, there’s a little picture symbol in the bottom left of the txt box. If you hover your mouse over top, it will say “upload images” From there. you can just navigate to where the photo is stored in your ‘puter. No need for an online photo account.

            • WhereIsSHE

              Thank you!
              Ughhh.. it says the file i am trying to upload is larger than 2.10 MBs. I can either crop my image or try to upload something smaller…
              I don’t know how to crop this imag=(

            • WhereIsSHE
            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              OK, now you’re just showing off! Added to the Bunker Milf list. You got one of those yet Mish Kid?

              Rather than crop, there are ways to shrink the size of the photo file too. Something like Picasa will let you resave a file as a smaller JPG, but you got it now with the Photobucket account anyway.

            • WhereIsSHE
            • WhereIsSHE

              It does?
              How come I don’t see that??
              I kind of don’t care anymore (but I kind of do… I’ve been warned about it by someone here I trust implicitly).
              Should I delete?

            • WhereIsSHE

              I see what you mean.
              I can’t delete the post. It won’t let me.
              I guess I’m OUT of the CLOSET;)

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              You can EDIT post to remove the link. Just leave a “.” as the only txt in the post.

            • WhereIsSHE

              did not work!

            • sugarplumfairy

              Email Tony.. He can prob delete it for you..

            • WhereIsSHE

              I would, because I’d rather take those photos down, but with all the work he does (and all the sleep deprivation he suffers to get it done), I feel a little ridiculous to interrupt him for this.
              IF there is anyone moderating… can you kindly delete my photos?!
              Muchas gracias, in advance, if you can and do;*

            • sugarplumfairy

              Your info is off there.. good job.. Your pics are great.. That’s a lot of smarts, beauty and righteous indignation packed into a tiny little package! Glad you’re on our team!

            • sugarplumfairy

              Uh oh.. We have a few redhead aficionados here at the bunker, WIS.. brace yourself..

            • Nevermore

              Speaking as a redhead, I have to say Redheads FTW!

            • Captain Howdy

              WTF! Why wasn’t I informed of this latest development?

              Someone is going to pay..and it isn’t going to be me

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIjeL2YOItU

            • Nevermore

              Oh, the Cramps, I bloody loved them – awesome live band!!

            • WhereIsSHE

              Ummmm… how did this reappear here?
              AND…
              How come I can no longer EDIT (it out)??!
              Can someone who controls these things kindly edit out my photos if you have the time?
              Thank you.

            • Robert Eckert

              Wow, I never knew what that was for.

              Did this work?

            • WhereIsSHE

              my jpeg is too large

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              I’ve never heard that before. No wise cracks either, you fools.

            • Robert Eckert

              You could try the other approach, of photobucket upload and insert link. Big images have been linked here before: they get cut in half with a See More bar, but that’s OK.

            • dbloch7986

              Unfortunately I don’t have that problem. But I can help you with yours….

            • WhereIsSHE

              Do you know how I can delete my photos here? Or were you just being cute about the SIZE thing?! (It’s getting late here! Brain is slowwwwing down!)

            • George Layton

              Let me put one in and try deleting it.

            • WhereIsSHE

              I deleted one .. (or at least someone provided a prompt for me to delete it–or just deleted it at the same time?).. and then the other one disappeared as well.
              Mwahh;*
              Thank you, whoever you are who helped me out here!

            • dbloch7986

              Edit the comment, hold your mouse over the pic and click the “x”?

              I meant I could help you with your too big problem, but i guess I can help with technical stuff too

            • WhereIsSHE

              Thanks, Derek! I THINK I did that… but some very kind person deleted my 2nd photo, so I don’t know if I was successful or whether said kind person is responsible for both.
              In any event, you have graciously explained how to delete foolishly posted images=)

            • George Layton

              I don’t see anywhere to edit out the photo:{

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Yes.

            • Theo Sismanides

              God is on vacation, so you know… He’ll be back when some people here take some responsibility for their actions or omissions. the last thing he told me before leaving is that he was too tired with his pets here on Earth. He would like to see them grow up.

            • sugarplumfairy

              I know you hate what miscavige has become, but he is a product of scientology, Theo.. he is a good scientologist.. he has taken lrh’s tools, teachings and training routines and he has mastered them.. Is that what you want for yourself? Keep practicing scientology then.. you’ll get there..

            • Theo Sismanides

              no Miscavige is not applying Standard Tech… you can ask anybody. Ask Marc and Claire and Jeff… Miscavige plays by his own rules… he is not a by-the-book Scientologist.

            • stillgrace

              It’s only delusional if you don’t feel better about things at the end of the day. “have a mental health day” = “playing hooky” = “cutting class” = “kicking back for the day”. I highly recommend this at least twice a year (not including weekends).

            • Captain Howdy

              Grace, who are you talking to again?

            • stillgrace

              The Bunker.

            • Captain Howdy

              Good, i didn’t think you were talking to Mr. 156 classes missed in one semester me.

            • stillgrace

              Of course not … I figure you can take care of things; for me: this week every day is a mental health day.

            • Captain Howdy

              Grace, I’m an admirer of your solidinessness

            • Jvm3

              Didn’t realize it until now, but I took a lot of mental health classes in high school.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              He was joking about my post earlier….Miscavige ships out or boots out anyone who he thinks due to age or physical condition might drop on the Flag premises like Lisa McPherson, but also now
              He is telling his staff to make notes and kick out anyone who is sounding delusional.
              Like talking about disembodied spirits, you know, what OT levels are all about. Or if someone says they feel like they could fly. So I posted the address for Flag Ethics Officer so anyone who hears of Delusional comments or behavior can turn them in! hah

              That’s what I get for posting late. It’s Intermission time for Gone With the Wind, so I came back just to clear that up.

            • stillgrace

              Thanks for clearing that up! I guess I’m all out of context. So many messages, it’s hard to keep up! I’ll keep looking for your original post on delusion.

            • q-bird

              you know Stillgrace – maybe if you hit “best” up there on disqus, you should find it right quick I’m certain.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Stillgrace nailed it.. Playing hooky..

            • stillgrace

              In my industry (I’m semi-retired now), we had an expression: if you wake up and feel like crap, go to work anyway because the days ruined anyway. Use your sick days only when you’re super-contagious or on death’s door, or need a mental health day.

            • sugarplumfairy

              very good policy.. In my industry, your coworkers smack you upside the head if you leave them short staffed..

            • stillgrace

              I can understand that in the medical field! That’s a bit different when peoples’ care and lives are on the line. I’m an engineer. The last place I worked full time had great policies. “9/80 work schedule” rotating over two weeks: first week you work 9 hours per day Monday through Thursday and then 8 hours on Friday; second week you work 9 hours per day Monday through Thursday and then you get that Friday off.

              We didn’t have “sick days”, we had “personal days off” – with pay; you didn’t need to be actually sick- 9 days per year and you could accrue up to 27 days. Combined with normal vacation, it wasn’t unusual for people to take a month off every couple of years. Thus, if you’re not deathly ill, just a bit sick, work anyway.

            • sugarplumfairy

              That sounds great.. I would love a 3-day weekend every two weeks.. Imma have to slip that in the suggestion box..

            • stillgrace

              To boost your case, google 9-80 work schedule. There have been studies proving this type of schedule keeps morale up and leads to fewer missed days, thus improving efficiency. I loved it!

            • sugarplumfairy

              Will do!

      • Captain Howdy

        “Can’t believe I’m going to miss the opportunity to see my hero in person”

        Relax SPF, I wasn’t planning on going.

        • sugarplumfairy

          =)

          Cool.. I feel much better now..

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          BAAHAAHAAA. You are so awesome Howdy!

    • aquaclara

      I wanna hear gloating and stories and all the best stuff!!! Since I cannot go. Bawhawhawhaw!

  • dbloch7986

    Would you like to know what Scientologists think of each other? It’s a standing rule in Scientology, “Never loan money to a Scientologist, because you’ll never get it back!” and they laugh at it.

  • dbloch7986

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXSEn7k04mE

    “I never had the level of appreciate for COB and RTC for keeping the tech pure, unaltered and straight.”

    That’s right. No gays in our teck!!!! – The Dear Leader COB

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Wait….what? One of the 57 perceptics ISN’T honing ones gaydar? I though it was right after Awareness of ones awareness.

      • dbloch7986

        My gaydar works amazingly well. Sometimes too well for people’s comfort…lol

    • monkeyknickers

      Wow D – what utter crap.

    • phronsie

      So sad. 🙁 Poor guy; after pouring so many years and so much of his substance into this, what else can he do but subsume himself into this hyped reality, to giving this overblown testimonial to justify to himself and to others that it really was worth it to find out Hubbard’s whole cosmology is just bad science fiction. Afterwards, he was too “embarrassed” to be seen, too overcome by what he’d learned to want anyone to see him; I’m sure it took a good few hours for him to massage his world view into rationalizing his grand entry into OT VIII as something more than a gyp and a big mind-rape. I can well imagine he had tears running down his face. 🙁

      Do you think maybe they really still use the Xenu story after all the public hype? Is it possible they’ve actually after all this time replaced it with just some more double think psycho-babble or some pretentious koan to save face and refute the rumors? “Oooh! OT VIII and I’ve learned ‘the egg is both inside and outside and truth is of the egg!!’ So saith LRH!!”

  • media_lush

    Came across this just now:

    “A man hypnotizing four people for the camera back when hypnosis was extensively practiced by reputable physicians for therapeutic use both as a form of anesthesia and as a cure for disease, c. 1845.”

    ….. what’s interesting is the mention of it being ‘a cure for disease’

    PS…. is that Hubbard’s dad?

    • Jvm3

      Perhaps a past life?

    • sugarplumfairy

      Omg.. It’s Abraham Lincoln vs. the Zombies!! I thought it was only a movie!

      • Unit G-Xenu’s Other Fist

        That was vampires SPF 😉

        • sugarplumfairy

          oh.. never mind.. =)

          • dbloch7986
          • Unit G-Xenu’s Other Fist

            Was not aware of that one, so my apologies SPF 😉

            • sugarplumfairy

              Lol.. Who knew.. Wonder if George Washington ever had any run-ins with supernaturals..

        • dbloch7986

          No there was one about zombies too. sugarplumfairy might not have known that but it does exist!

          http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2246549/

          • sugarplumfairy

            Oh yah.. I knew about that one..yah, that’s the ticket.. I knew about it.. My cousin Morgan Fairchild told me about it..

    • Robert Eckert

      ” what’s interesting is the mention of it being ‘a cure for disease’ ” That’s what Mesmer originally presented it as.

  • stateofcircle

    My apologies to my fellow Bunkerites, I have not been around much lately…silly “work” and “life” has been being a real buzzkill on my Scilon activities. There’s way too many comments to sift through to see if there has been any significant info about tomorrow night’s bunker extravaganza… anything I need to know? I would imagine Tony will post something tomorrow, I.e. any meeting place or plans and whatnot. I hope to see some of you there!

    • q-bird

      No State – not much regards that cool happening for tomorrow night. SPF said she can’t go tomorrow but will get to see it later in the week.

      YOU… YOU GET TO GO?!

      • stateofcircle

        Yup, I’ll be there 🙂

  • DodoTheLaser

    Grade 1 “Problems release” is probably the shortest grade of them all.
    Which is a big relief for many auditors, pc’s and their bank accounts.

    Despite of its pompous promise of “Ability to recognize the source of problems and make them vanish”,
    it’s a joke. Notice how carefully Hubbard worded the above end phenomena/the ability gained – that’s what people do outside scientology every day, minus 20 grand.

    Hubbard, such trickster he was.

    • Phil de Fontenay

      I never found that Grade 1 was the shortest Grade. Grade 3 & 4 are shorter. 😉

      There are more Objective processes on Grade 1 as well as a ton of Help processes.

      And I agree, ALL of the so called abilities gained on the Grades are bogus. Most people come up with them just to save money and of course because that is what is expected of them.

      Hubbard was good at telling yarns is about all!

      Cheers!
      Phil

      • DodoTheLaser

        Thanks, Phil.

        I agree that 3 & 4 can be shorter then 1.
        I was thinking more in comparison with Grades 0 & 2.

        Always good to hear from you!

        • Phil de Fontenay

          Yes definitely!

          Remember Grade 2? Wow!!! ~lol

          And that friggin’ Joburg Confessional. How to make people realize they are far worse than they thought they were. A button that is regularly pushed by management. Great trick for making people “more agreeable” ~lol

          Cheers!

          Phil

  • filosofa

    Hello from a long-time lurker. For years I have been an admirer of Tony Ortega and his sterling work in exposing the pernicious and destructive cult of Scientology. Bunkerites here have made me laugh, cry, exclaim out loud with anger and always educated me. Thank you all
    Because of you I have been able to warn a friend who was flirting with the idea of joining “the Church” and I have sent assorted colleagues over here, to inform themselves that “it’s always worse than you think”.
    Bravo Bunkerites!!

    • Sunny Sands

      Kudos to you filosofa for being a good friend. And welcome!

      • filosofa

        Thank you for the welcome and your kind comment, Sunny Sands. My friend eventually decided to give scamatology a wide berth. One less deluded minion for the cult – yay!

    • Studious Judious

      Welcome!

      • filosofa

        Thank you, Studious Judious! Glad to finally be here.

  • Guest

    The reason underlying why “Objective processing” works is not found in Scientology. If that reason is understood, one can easlily obtain the gains of “Objective processing” freely through using the KHTK (mindfulness) approach.

    A friend wrote on my blog:

    “Consider if you were physically disabled in a manner that left you with no sensory perceptions to judge space or even gravity. You would not know the normal space dimensions existed but you might still be aware a self, of your own consciousness. It would depend a lot on whether you had experienced normal senses prior to losing them and whether you’d gone mad from sensory deprivation.

    “That is the whole problem with this sort of speculation in ending up saying something is an abstraction because we can’t sense it. Perhaps something else could sense a 5th dimension and it would be as real to that something as 3 or 4 are to us.

    “I think it is more productive to simply look at the dimensions above 3 from the mathematical approach originated by David Hilbert, of “Hilbert space” fame.”

    Here is the response from KHTK perspective:

    With sensory deprivation, one is simply left with one’s assumptions and speculations. The stable datum is reality. Reality includes the physical reality and the abstraction proceeding from it. Therefore, one’s speculations and conjectures must seek consistency with reality. An inconsistencies must be discarded.

    We can sense physical reality through our physical sense organ. We can sense abstraction through our mind. We can also sense consistency and inconsistency. Thus, we can separate abstraction proceeding from reality from “abstraction” proceeding from assumptions.

    The fifth dimension of abstraction is the abstraction proceeding from physical reality. But physical reality and abstract reality are one and the same. Physical and Abstract are two different aspects of reality that we sense through different sense organs.

    Unreality comes from assumptions that are not consistent with reality. Actually, assumptions would be defined that way.

    You are recommending mathematical approach originated by David Hilbert to separate abstraction from assumptions. That is fine. I need to study up on this approach.

    Interestingly enough, this friend believes in the ‘thetan’ of Scientology. So I had to ask:

    But, 2ndxmr, if you follow Hilbert’s approach do you find “thetan” to be an abstraction from reality or an assumption? I find it to be an assumption.

    .

  • Vinay Agarwala

    The reason underlying why “Objective processing” works is not found in Scientology. If that reason is understood, one can easlily obtain the gains of “Objective processing” freely through using the KHTK (mindfulness) approach.

    A friend wrote on my blog:

    “Consider if you were physically disabled in a manner that left you with no sensory perceptions to judge space or even gravity. You would not know the normal space dimensions existed but you might still be aware a self, of your own consciousness. It would depend a lot on whether you had experienced normal senses prior to losing them and whether you’d gone mad from sensory deprivation.

    “That is the whole problem with this sort of speculation in ending up saying something is an abstraction because we can’t sense it. Perhaps something else could sense a 5th dimension and it would be as real to that something as 3 or 4 are to us.

    “I think it is more productive to simply look at the dimensions above 3 from the mathematical approach originated by David Hilbert, of “Hilbert space” fame.”

    Here is the response from KHTK perspective:

    With sensory deprivation, one is simply left with one’s assumptions and speculations. The stable datum is reality. Reality includes the physical reality and the abstraction proceeding from it. Therefore, one’s speculations and conjectures must seek consistency with reality. An inconsistencies must be discarded.

    We can sense physical reality through our physical sense organ. We can sense abstraction through our mind. We can also sense consistency and inconsistency. Thus, we can separate abstraction proceeding from reality from “abstraction” proceeding from assumptions.

    The fifth dimension of abstraction is the abstraction proceeding from physical reality. But physical reality and abstract reality are one and the same. Physical and Abstract are two different aspects of reality that we sense through different sense organs.

    Unreality comes from assumptions that are not consistent with reality. Actually, assumptions would be defined that way. You are recommending mathematical approach originated by David Hilbert to separate abstraction from assumptions. That is fine. I need to study up on this approach.

    Interestingly enough, this friend believes in the ‘thetan’ of Scientology. So I had to ask:

    But, 2ndxmr, if you follow Hilbert’s approach do you find “thetan” to be an abstraction from reality or an assumption? I find it to be an assumption.

    This would also explain why Super Power (Perception processing) may lead to gains. However, one need not pay exhorbitant sums for it.

    .

  • SoMissDelicious

    I recall a time back in college where my roommate and I went to the mall with some other friends, and we went in to a restaurant, only to discover that my roommate hadnt followed us in, she had been lured over to a table offering free “stress tests” (which we all know is a lure for the Co$.) I recall making a comment along the lines of oh shit we have to get her out of there, and even the waitress saying go get your friend, thats the Scientology table. My roommate, bless her, is sweet as can be, but really naive. I could totally see her falling for it if we handt been there to pull her away and in to the restaraunt

  • deanblair

    Scientology is too expensive. I would rather use the money for something much more fun.

  • maranathasoon

    This is not a religion. Religion seeks to find God, the Creator of the universe. Has anybody here looked at the First Cause argument? If you haven’t, then please look it up on the web. This is the basis of any religion, that the Big Bang or whatever you attribute as the cause of the creation of the universe, had to be preceded by a greater force.

    Scientology, as I see it from the outside, is merely a thought control process that you place between yourself and everything else. It seems to me that it’s the polar opposite of truly experiencing life, it’s joys and wonder.

    Dave

  • Steve Bazemore

    Objectives was where I said enoughs enough in Narconon. I said forget this, they are trying to brainwash me! I argued with the Ethics officer for a couple of hours, who was trying to convince me to stay and that they were the only ones that could help me. Eventually they gave up and told me either I could spend $300 to go to a halfway house or they could dump me in a homeless shelter. I chose the halfway house, and the week I spent there I was decompressing from the 3 months I spent at narconon. Three months of brainwashing took a week to recooperate, so I could only imagine the folks who have spent years upon years.