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The secret of everything? It’s time for Scientology’s Original Operating Thetan Level Five!

BigBangClaire Headley and Bruce Hines are taking us on our journey to train as Scientologists. Claire spent years working with Scientologyโ€™s โ€œtech,โ€ and was trusted to oversee the auditing of Tom Cruise. Bruce was in Scientology for 31 years and spent about half that time as a senior case supervisor. Go here to see the first part in this series.

This week, as we move on up to Original Operating Thetan Level Five (OT 5), Claire told us she never had any experience with it. But Bruce was ready to help us get another step up the Bridge to Total Freedom.

According to the Original OT 5 materials we looked at, this level is about “the truth about the physical universe,” which is different from “the laws of physical scientists.”

Yes, Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard is going to tell us the truth about the MEST universe (matter, energy, space, and time), and once we do, we will become “free of its laws.”

Sounds fun! At this point, we should be able to exist completely exterior of the physical body, and the drills of OT 5 will allow us to “communicate” freely with the “environment.”

Oh, we can hardly wait! Now, let’s see how the true nature of the universe is revealed in a way that those silly scientists have never figured out…

We start with preliminaries. We lie down and get comfortable. With our eyes shut, we do the following:

“1. Spot a spot in the room”

“2. Spot a spot in your body”

This is continued as we spots spots “outside” and on the sun. Then we’re asked to sit up and spot an object or locate objects in the room and outside.

We then locate a moving object, locate a space, and do a few similar things until we’re exterior of our body.

In the next set of exercises, we’re again lying comfortably with our eyes closed. Now were asked to “create an illusion” which can be a “condition, energy, or object.”

Then, with that illusion in mind, we’re asked to do various things…

Conserve it, Hide it, Age it, Rearrange it, and Destroy it, among others.

Next up are some precious exercises that take place outdoors. We’ll quote a few…

“Pick out an object ahead of you and wrap an energy beam around it and yourself and pull yourself toward the object by shortening the beam. Notice what happens.”

“Locate a cloud and notice the space between you and it.”

“Notice the motion of the earth and your relationship to it.”

We’re asked to repeat these steps (and several others like them) until we have a “major cognition.”

And that’s it. What would that major cognition be, Bruce?

BRUCE: Like Claire, I have had little experience with the original OT 5. Like the original OT 4, very few people did it after 1978, and virtually no one after about 1982. Even though from my position in the Sea Org I had access and had to study a lot of confidential materials, the original OT 4, 5, and 6 were not among them. I think I read them briefly once. They were kind of hushed up after the “Bridge” underwent major revisions in ’78 and ’82.

Usually, a “major cognition” in Scientology can be any realization that in the person’s estimation is major. There are only a few auditing actions that go for a specific cognition (like the “Clear cog,” or the realization that one is just oneself in certain auditing actions designed to shift the person’s valence). A major cog should be a wow, mind-blowing thing accompanied by “very very good indicators.” There is a whole long list of “good indicators” and another one of “bad indicators.” In fact there is a whole educational film on the subject of indicators. That said, I would guess (and it really is a guess) that a preOT on the original OT 5 would “realize” something along the lines of, “I really am a spiritual being separate from and senior to the physical universe.”

I put the word “realize” in quotation marks because the whole thing is taking place in the person’s head. They lie down and perform various mental exercises. Let’s take, for example, “Spot a spot on the sun.” If you were to try this, it isn’t too hard to imagine that you are out in space somewhere, exterior to the body, and viewing the sun and some location on it. Having imagined that, and after carrying out a whole bunch of such mental tricks, it is a small step to believing that you are some really bad-ass thetan not confined by the physical universe. I believe this is analogous to what happens when one begins to recall past lives in auditing. When the person being audited is first told or asked or encouraged to find a past-life experience, he or she gets some dim thought that seems to just be something that would answer the auditing question. Then through repetition of this, and with the help of various re-enforcement mechanisms of the whole auditing system, the person gets more and more confident that these thoughts really are past-life experiences. If one fails to “perceive the motion of the earth” or find the past-life incident, then there is something wrong with that person. They then have to get expensive repair auditing, or have to re-do levels already supposedly done, or one might even be suppressive.

Mr. Hubbard taught and Scientologists come to believe, that only the ill-intended would attempt to invalidate or refute the truth of these experiences. After all, who is to say whether the person, as a spiritual being, was not out in space viewing the sun. Well, if it really worked, if these exercises really did produce super-able, super-ethical beings, it would all be good. I have concluded that it does not work. Of course, that makes me an SP. Starting in 1978, the idea was that these earlier original OT levels did not produce their intended results because everyone needed “NOTs” auditing (which now includes New OT V, New OT VI, and New OT VII). So for many years the focus became getting people through those levels. When enough people (read “enough to make it profitable”) had done so, New OT VIII was released. Then a bunch of people did that. But there were still no people with OT powers. That must mean that the earlier steps on the “Bridge” were faulty. But that’s OK, as it meant there were a whole lot of things that people had to pay for. People were even convinced that errors in books from the 1950s were the problem.

When Mr. Hubbard was alive, when his discoveries did not produce the touted results, he could come out with a new discovery that explained why. Then everyone would have to do that. Mr. Miscavige, cannot simply dream up a whole new thing. Mr. Hubbard made it very clear that only he was Source. So Mr. Miscavige has to keep repackaging and “fixing” the things that Mr. Hubbard had issued.

The whole system does not hold up under the scientific method. It is then very convenient to label scientists as fakes and physics and biology as false subjects.

THE BUNKER: Wait, Bruce, so you’re saying we’re not going to understand the truth of the physical universe and be free of its laws?

Well now we are seeing spots.

Next time, we’ll do New OT 5, and we’ll add it on to our running total. For now, we’ll stay at $288,105.50 for now.

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on February 5, 2014 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS (We read Scientology’s founding text) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25

UP THE BRIDGE (Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 39

GETTING OUR ETHICS IN (Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14

SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING (Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40

 

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  • Tory Christman

    On OT 5 I have known more people who died, wayyyyyyyy too young, than on any other OT level before it. The deaths really began at OT 5-OT 8. An OT 8 review auditor (counselor who fixes things that were messed up) called me and told me: “I left Scientology because I saw SO many OT 8’s die”. Does $cientology Kill? Oh yes it does….wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too often. “Dave”? For years I have been posting to you about Karma, and that eventually your abuses WILL catch up with you. (Thus Tick Tock…:) You deserve ALL that you are getting and much, much more. Love to all here, and happy Wednesday ๐Ÿ™‚ Tory/Magoo

    • SciWatcher

      Tory, do they die of illnesses or suicide? Or both?

      • Silence of the Clams

        shhhhhhh…she’s sleeping

        • Tory Christman

          Correct ๐Ÿ™‚ When one goes to bed at 4 am, ya….I needed to sleep. But, I’m up now and waiving at DAVE THE SLAVEMASTER: You failed, you continue to fail, if there was ONE “Clear” ….you would not be reading any of this: PERIOD.

      • Tory Christman

        Both. I personally know 10 families whose kids took their own lives. This is a tragedy
        I cannot forget. I speak out mostly due to $cientology breaking up families, $cientology medical abuses, $cientology stopping free speech and $cientology driving people to suicide (Or the “tech” killing them). These were members of the phony, fraudulent “church” of $cientology. Most of the suicides were kids who wanted OUT, or had one parent “in” and one parent “out”. THIS IS NOT NORMAL! These abuses should NOT be allowed, ever!

        • SciWatcher

          So, so tragic. Why is it do you think that the deaths increase on these levels?

          • Tory Christman

            Medical Science has proven that what one THINKS about their bodies *can* and often does affect them. On OT 5 to OT 7 at least, imagine being filled with thoughts that you are covered with not only BT’s dead beings/Body Thetans)…but they’re unconscious from OT 5 on.

            Plus on OT 3 they’re just on you, supposedly. From OT 5 on …they can be 1 mile away, 1000 miles away, a planet away! So imagine believing that 24/7 month after month, often year after year. It didn’t get me that way…but I did nearly die after OT 3, for the last time trying to get off of my medication for Epilepsy.

            I knew about their weirdo practices with illnesses, having experienced it for 20+ years. Thankfully….not consciously…but subconsciously I knew they would HAVE to take me to a Scio-Dr and I’d probably die going there, just as Lisa did, some years later. So I called s/one I knew was “on the fence” …all this while going into multiple Grand mal Seizures. HE, Jerry Hall, took me to Morton Plant Hospital about 1 mile away, next to Flag, thankfully.

            The Doctors there told me; “You nearly died. A few more minutes and you would have been gone. We barely were able to pull you out of this”. $cientology? Why do I speak out? HELLO YOU MORONS!

            Thank you to Jerry Hall forever and ever.
            Thank you to every single person who helps expose this insidious organization. My love,
            Tory/Magoo

    • Great White Clam

      Don’t hold back Tory.
      Tell us how you really feel.
      ๐Ÿ™‚

      • Tory Christman

        You know I will! Count on it! . Ya want me to list the names of peeps/friends who are D E A D or committed Suicide while “in”? Let me know. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • HelluvaHoax!

      hey t-magoo!

      That’s strange…when I ran OT V they used different commands than the ones that Bruce and Claire described. I think it was some kind of HAVINGNESS process they ran on me. The command my auditor gave me was:

      “Look around your wallet and find something I can have.”

      (Wait….can a person go to hell for making fun of Ron’s religious technology? lol)

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        In Scientology, you mock up your own Hell…

        • HelluvaHoax!

          Scientology BlowCog: “I am mocking up my own hell…and that’s probably not a good idea.”

          • Tory Christman

            My FINAL “Cog” (short for cognition/realization) was: “I did NOT get into $cientology to do THIS” (while working for the “Top Secret OSA Int Internet Mafia—which Bill Yaude would NOT tell me what it was **actually** about. Once I Looked on the Net (which I was ordered not to, and was terrified of it due to Nancy Many’s story of going insane and Yaude telling me “That was due to she reading the Net in the 90’s..which I later found out ONLY happened due to they drugging and reverse auditing her)…..and realized they were working to stop free speech…I left $cientology a few days later, FOREVER.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              I guess by Scientology standards you lost your mind, since it was no longer under their control…!

            • Tory Christman

              Ya…they (C of $) have what Hubbard called “Black PR” they spread on ANYONE that is not following their rules. Happily there are SO many of us “out” that this BS no longer really works. In years past…we used to worry about a Judge being paid off or OSA running black pr programs on a Judge, they getting intimidated and finally going THEIR way. Some how I think those days are gone, thanks to ALL of you, Tony O, Mosey…etc. etc. Tick Tock, Tick Tock, Time IS on *our* side!~ Why? When we made the video about (OT Panel) it was in 2000. There were about 5-6 people who would speak out and say their own names publicly. Now there are hundreds of us, if not thousands. The more that leave, the more who will speak out. The more who speak out…. The more people who wake up and leave. Thus….. Tick tock “Dave”…..your day has arrived! Love to ALL ๐Ÿ™‚ Tory/Magoo

            • Shirley Eugeste

              hey Tory… tick tock indeed. Don’t know if you’ve ever tried Mystery Science Theater Tech, but it has many applications.

            • Tory Christman

              Nope, “Guest”…I don’t “try” weird techs anymore. I actually wrapped that up in 1997 when I quietly QUIT Auditing forever: This lifetime and lifetime after lifetime after lifetime”.

              (That was after being ordered to “See if you can walk down the street and not think about your case” (basically NOT have *a* thought). (Imagine: Don’t think about an elephant! Years later top tech people who had left C of $ told me: “That is THE squirrelist process we’ve ever heard of”).

              After 2 driveways, I stood out in the street,put my arms crossed above may head (“The Thetan Hand” routine I was taught to CUT lines with BTs when nothing else will work)…and ended off my years of trying to “Get OT”. BOOM! DONE. It still took a few years for me to fully wake up, but that was a big one in the road out.

        • Bradley Greenwood

          Nail on the head, DDD!

      • valshifter

        LRH said you cannot go to hell because you already there, so I guess we go to heaven for making fun of him.

      • Tory Christman

        Hey HelluvaHoax! LOL Good points ๐Ÿ™‚ This shows (for those who are “in”, lurking and THINKING $cientology really does have “Standard tech”….listen to this, please: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3C5j63DsmnQ (We made this in 2000 and it’s still very applicable!) ๐Ÿ™‚

        • Tory Christman

          This is a long video that few here may want to watch. However, IF you are “in”…please take the time to watch ALL of it. It just *may* help change your life, forever. $cientology is NOT what you thought it was. Learn both sides, please.

    • Bradley Greenwood

      I swear Tory…I just want to pinch your cheek sometimes; you’re so awfully cute ๐Ÿ™‚

      • valshifter

        LOL!!!

      • Tory Christman

        LOL Bradley ๐Ÿ™‚ Thanks for that!

  • DodoTheLaser

    OT 5 – Second Wall of Fire. Because OT 3 was not silly enough.

  • Miss Tia

    Morning!! My internet went out last night before I went to bed for a bit—apparently not a widespread issue—came back on though (duh) but this morning I am still having issues getting to pages. I would not be surprised if I lose it again. We determined last night I might need to get a new modem, but it’s sleeting right now and that won’t be happening today! So I didn’t tweet as much as I wanted as I gotta make the most of the internets and finish my gay equality weekend essay for my vintage ads community this morning—while I still have internet! ๐Ÿ™‚

    So @scientology is claiming that to PROTECT COPYRIGHTS they will follow, film, photograph and basically STALK a man’s wife. #Insanity

    Also in their quest to PROTECT COPYRIGHTS @scientology will grill the man’s wife’s RELATIVES about personal things–no copyright mentions.

    They’ll call this lady a “bitch” and make websites insulting her cuz that protects @scientology copyrights how? #Insanity

    The tax exempt church of @scientology sent this lady a DILDO at her work cuz they thought her husband was violating copyrights. #Insanity

    At no time did the sue happy tax exempt church of @scientology directly sue this guy for COPYRIGHT infringement! Cuz that would make sense?

    Oh no! Much better to harass, STALK, wage a campaign of insanity against them cuz the tax exempt church of @scientology does that well.

    In court @scientology attempts to misrepresent-as they always do w/ everything-Mr. @johnsweeneyroar dismissing him as JUST as critic of them

    Mr. @johnsweeneyroar is a well known well respected reporter who’s covered MANY subjects in his long career. I’ll retweet his saying what.

    @TonyOrtega94 I’m a reporter who does #NorthKorea, #Putin, #China, #Belarus, #Iraq, #Iran – and oh yes, the Church of #Scientology

    Another fun little trick by @scientology in court is to HEAVILY edit video footage that was to be submitted IN FULL. Oops, they were caught!

    A 10 minute clip w/ audio was submitted as 1 min w/ NO audio & @scientology thought no one would be the wiser. Tsk Tsk We’re ALL wiser!

    Once caught @scientology tried to claim it was from a different year–like that makes EDITING 9 minutes out & removing audio any BETTER?

    Any future evidence @scientology submits should be trusted? Oh that’s right it’s within their religion TO LIE. Remember they’re tax exempt!

    • Eclipse-girl

      I am glad you are back.

      • Miss Tia

        Thank you! Nice to be back! Still connected to the internet, but I probably just jinxed it! I’ll still hold off sending more tweets. I’ll jot ’em down and send ’em tomorrow! ๐Ÿ™‚

        • Deimos

          Hiya Miss Tia, good to see you on fine form.

          I had my own cognition when reading your tweets, seems to me that the Co$ and Diddy Dave DO regard lying, deviance, intimidation and abuse as “church trademarks” unique to scamatology. Of course that obliges them to protect these unique ecclesiastical treasures.
          And of course they MUST charge parishioners vast sums to be trained in this life enhancing technology. This obviously includes editing videos to remove all parts that include the use of these valuable copyrighted techniques.

          Simple if you just view it from down at diddy’s level.

          • Miss Tia

            Brilliant!!! You’ve inspired some more tweets—since, knock on wood, my internet is still connected….

            • Deimos

              Keep pumping them out Miss Tia, it only takes one hit in the right spot bring this evil old dinosaur down.
              And you never know which shot will get that hit.

            • Miss Tia

              Thank you! ๐Ÿ™‚

        • NOLAGirl

          I’m also glad you’re back. ; ) You were missed.

          • Miss Tia

            Aw thanks! ๐Ÿ™‚

    • And I don’t rent cars!

      I was worried about you! So nice to see your avatar back in the Bunker.

      Hope it was only the “tech” keeping you silent. I fully empathize and sympathize with your tech problems – that’s for darn sure!

      Carry on then with your good works, as best as the weather and technology allows you to.

      Morning smile to you —-> ๐Ÿ™‚

      • Miss Tia

        Morning!! ๐Ÿ™‚ Smiles are great in the morning!! Thank you!

    • SopranoAscends

      Hi Tia! I found your review on the Android scion app on Amazon. I added mine. We could use a few more reviews. Please go here: http://preview.tinyurl.com/kvpdf22

      • SopranoAscends

        Note how the app is rated *by the app’s developer* :
        Guidance Suggested
        Based on information provided by the developer, the content of this application has material that is appropriate for most users. The app may include account creation, location detection, user generated content, advertisements, infrequent or mild references to violence, profanity, or crude themes, or other content not suitable for all ages.

  • Observer

    โ€œ1. Spot a spot in the roomโ€

    โ€œ2. Spot a spot in your bodyโ€

    This is continued as we spots spots โ€œoutsideโ€ and on the sun. Then weโ€™re asked to sit up and spot an object or locate objects in the room and outside.

    • stanrogers

      See spot run. Run, spot, run!

  • Mr Hubbard? Heh! C’mon, let’s use his proper name . . .

    • SciWatcher

      Dumbass?

      • Shannon

        Commodore Dumbass. Let’s not be disrespectful now.

        • Anonymous

          I thought it was Commodore Rimjob?

          NSFW:
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3IkrgWn5SA

        • Heh! Good point, although its actually “Admiral” not “Commodore”. In Flag Order 3879 of 19 January 1986, L Ron Hubbard gave himself a promotion to Admiral and “retired” the rank of Commodore from use within Scientology while also introduced the rank of “Loyal Officer”. Crazy, but true,

          • Kristi Evans

            January 19, 1986? Didn’t he *die* five days later? Talk about focused!! Gadzooks. Those NOTs worked for him – or maybe it was just the Vistaril talking…

            • OrangySky

              If he died (er, dropped the body) 5 days later, then could he have actually been the author of that dispatch. I mean, wasn’t he just a blob of jelly at the end?
              Could Pat have written it? Certainly David didn’t – he wouldn’t have done something that didn’t mention himself.

            • Robert Eckert

              The next day or the day after is when the “will” of LRH was written, leaving everything to the Miscavige-controlled corporations except token amounts to Mary Sue and some of the children.

          • Ms. B. Haven

            Pat who?
            Anne who?
            Might as well throw in Shelly, Heber, Diana, Mary Sue, Yvonne, etcโ€ฆ Who? where? why? For a group that touts its wizardry with improving and promoting communication, the silence is deafening.

          • valshifter

            so when do we use Dr. in Philosophy?

          • sizzle8

            Supposedly it was written by Broeker and Hubbard was aware of it. He was already close to death and not in a state to care.

          • Shannon

            If that’s the case I’d go with Admiral Asshat. Better ring to it!

    • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

      The RON is short for wRONg. The Hubbard is DRAB HUB spelled sideways.

  • Kristi Evans

    8 comments already! I guess I’m ready for OT 5. I think. I’m going to go up the bridge to nowhere until March 14th.

  • EnthralledObserver

    I ‘spot’ a bit of lame arse bullshit in OTV…

  • Jonathan Cummings

    Scientology is some crazy shit. You would think the upper level OT’s would get pissed off once they realized they had no super powers after spending 250 grand or more. I would be furious!

    • Modesto

      In a perverse way it does work, of course – it’s remarkable that, by this stage, people can be conditioned to accept that any failure to achieve soopah-powerz is their own fault and that the solution is more $$$$. Success, Scientology-style …

      • Jonathan Cummings

        Your are right. I guess the lack of super powers ability is just another way to make money and blame the cult member (victim) for their own failures. Not to mention if you happen to not have a good enough cognition or none at all you can be forced back down to a lower level and have to pay all over again. Scary, yet an ingenious evil money making scheme!

      • SciWatcher

        Scientology absolutely works. It does exactly what Hubbterd set it up to do: make money and more money and more money while establishing his own army of slaves.

    • Eclipse-girl

      It is “The Emperor’s New Clothes”
      You spend that kind of money and you do not want others to know you have been made a fool of.

  • Jimmy Threetimes

    Is this actually working for anyone? I’m still stuck here on Planet Hoth. I think original OTV is broken.

    • Observer

      I’m there too. I keep expecting to look up and see a herd of tauntauns outside.

      • Jimmy Threetimes

        I was going to say that I’d trade my dog for a tauntaun but just then he looked up and stared at me.

        • RMycroft

          According to the radar, the worst of it has been sliding just past us. Which is good, because the snow at the side of the driveway is starting to get a little high.

          http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/perfectpatience/Game%20of%20Thrones/got1x01_0638.jpg

          • Espiando

            You got lucky. It’s been coming down here since about 4PM yesterday and it’s still coming down. It was a real thrill getting into work this morning. Chicago suburbs are not known for their “let’s get everything off the road before most people wake up” attitude to snow removal.

            • Robert Eckert

              Same in Detroit, except I don’t have anywhere to go. Mom looked out and said let’s not even bother snowblowing at least until it’s stopped.

          • D.Y.G.

            I envy that you can determine where your driveway is right now.

            • RMycroft

              A big white lump with a car under it is a clue, however the edges are more tradition than fact these days.

          • Jimmy Threetimes

            And Winter hasn’t even arrived yet. I’ve heard it’s coming, though.

          • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

            Heck of a day out there, eh?

  • Krew13

    Not Sciloon related but Slappy’s BFF is being sued.

    The makers of Tom Cruise film Mission: Impossible – Ghost Protocol are being sued for $1 billion by a man who claims its script was based on his copyrighted screenplay. Timothy Patrick McLanahan claims the 2011 release was “illegally written and produced” from his 1998 script Head On. He filed legal papers against Cruise, Paramount Pictures and several production companies in December 2013.

  • danlocke

    I’ve ran spotting spots and lots of similar processes. This process, although it became OT 5, was actually first published well before that; I think in 1954, in the book, “The Creation of Human Ability”. There are many of the OT processes in that book.

    In 1968 or so there was something of a codification of various processes and a labeling of these as OT 1, OT 2, and OT 3. But, other than the “body thetan” processes of 3, most of these had been around for a good long while, just labeled as something else. And there were hundreds of people (maybe even some thousands of people) who ran these processes before then.

    I can’t leap tall buildings with a mighty bound, and I don’t know that my X-Ray Vision (with or without the specs) will stand up too well under a James Randi type of inspection. I can tell you this, and there might be some benefit to the discussion from it: no one comes out of such sessions with a vivid tangible “OT Power”, but many come out of such sessions feeling very, very good.

    If all that was promised from Scientology was that you could feel very, very, very good, things would have turned out a lot better for it than it has. There’d be a lot less auditing, a lot less money made by the Church, but a lot more satisfied people. Because there’s a lot good about feeling very good; that’s not a bad thing at all. And there’s many here who are currently detractors who will tell you that Scientology auditing at least and often pulled that off. It brought about good feelings; generally a feeling of well being and freedom.

    I also think that, just maybe, if you get enough people feeling very good; sort of thinking “You know, I feel so good, I think I could fly!” and patting each other on the back and saying, “I know what you mean, me too!”… that maybe one day one of those people might just leap up in the air and circle the playground a few times, and then the rest of us would too.

    Well, that was fun to say! Ok, I am ready for my teasing!

    • Robert Eckert

      “maybe one day one of those people might just leap up in the air” No. Just… no. The universe does not work that way, however persistent the urge to believe in childish magical thinking is in all of us.

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      So in your scenario, a group of guys congratulate each other, leap a victory leap (foot-high-high-five?), and then run some laps around the park? Seems like it could happen… But who does that? Scientologists?

      • Espiando

        That situation only happens in the alternative universes of sitcoms and beer commercials. The situation went extinct in the alternative universe of gay porn in approximately 1985, a victim of its too-rapid multiplication starting in around 1978.

        • VickiStubing
          • Eclipse-girl

            Chris Farley was very funny. another person who died too young

            • VickiStubing

              I think it’s something about the artistic, creative personalities. Often, they burn brightly but not for long ๐Ÿ™ The world is better for their having been here, but they leave big holes in our hearts. I’m a big old mess of cliche today, sorry.

            • Eclipse-girl

              I do not think it is just artistic creative people. Many succumb to addiction. many people have (personal) holes they try to fill because of the pain of those holes.

              We just hear about the famous people.

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              I wonder, I really do. We don’t hear much about politician suicides or industrialist suicides. We hear about the Van Goghs.

              As a would-be artist I thought that the creative people weren’t nuts, they just had a bad rap. Now, as a low-end artist I do think creative people tend towards nuttiness. I have neither done nor even read a study though. It’s just what I have seen. Others have seen other thing.

            • Eclipse-girl

              If you go to AA or NA meetings, you will find people from all walks of life.

              Addiction will kill a person if they do not want to fight for their life.

              Maybe creative , artistic people are more sensitive. Maybe the pain they endure gives them a sense of hopelessness

              Too many people from addiction.

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              I have a few reasons why these great sadnesses may hit the artistic. This is not to exclude other groups but this is what I have seen.

              Their incomes vary dramatically from week to week and from year to year.
              Many have no marketable skills.
              They want to recreate the world in their image rather than conform to the existing reality.

              I know other groups have their own problems but these are the ones that centre upon artists I know. And as we age our skills seem to be needed less. Many of my friends are having a time of it now. Many are looking towards old age pensions for a manageable life. Others are looking towards or have received inheritances. Many wish they had entered a calmer profession like insurance or banking.

            • Eclipse-girl

              I agree with you the life of an artist is usually very economically difficult.
              I would never advise anyone to become an artist because of the economic insecurity.
              I am of the personal belief that one has to be driven to become an artist, in that you are always doing it and can’t do anything else. Even then, it is unlikely you will be economically secure.

    • Great White Clam

      Sigh.

      The Mr. Natural cartoon with the caption: “twas ever thus” comes to mind.

      Just saying.

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        Did you see the Crumb story where one group of cult members marches along the street and comes up against another cult? One of the cultists starts laughing that the other cult didn’t even know about Sad Saturday?

        How about the one that starts with Mr. Natural at a desk with signs all around promoting his spiritual services, one sign saying that he would give a “Cerebral Blow Job”.

        I haven’t seen those comics since they came out. I would love to read those stories again.

      • danlocke

        There’s another Crumb toon where the character comes home from somewhere to find a pile of letters including one from the HASI (an early Scientology organization, the Hubbard Association of Scientologists, International). I forget this character’s name; the one that had a long beard and huge eyes, I think.

        Maybe only old timer Scientologists will get a kick out of this, I don’t know:

        The man opens the HASI letter and reads, “You, (name of the character) have been declared a Suppressive Person.”

        He looks up quizzically before setting the letter aside and says, “What’s a ‘Scientologist’, anyway?”

    • Tony Ortega

      Thanks for that, Dan. Good stuff.

    • Silence of the Clams

      I’m sure you are coming from a good place danlocke but I have to tell you, there are a hundred other techniques available on this planet that can do the exact same thing for you without all the damaging fall out. If you did OT V then you must have been screaming at ashtrays and bull baiting someone at some point. If that made you feel good, ok…more power to you (OT power!), but this is kind of an extreme example of picking and choosing wins, don’t you think?

      • SciWatcher

        What about on other planets?

      • danlocke

        No, I have not done any of the OT levels, other than that which I was able to get out of books and run on myself or with others in a co-audit. And I am well aware of other techniques and think that’s great! Anytime you can find things like this that can help you out, use it. I never agreed to the body thetans stuff and would not run it. It never made sense to me that there were all these evil beings running around stuffing people in volcanoes.

        I got to be (and still am) something of a “selective sifter” of Scientology. Find stuff that works and work with it. Ignore the rest.

        • Silence of the Clams

          well that seems fair enough dan.

        • Eclipse-girl

          as you sifted through scientology, how did you decide what was good or bad?
          as you sifted through scientology, did you ever deal with their “scripture” or “ethics” or other principles?

          • danlocke

            It’s all subjective. I did it (and do it) on the basis of feeling. Early on in Scientology training, everyone reads Ron’s essay, “On Personal Integrity”. In it, it’s basically stated that one should make up their own minds and not just accept Scientology because “it’s what Ron said.”

            Well, that essay was just a bait and switch, it turns out that you do have to happily eat up whatever Ron says and smile as do so and you have to stand up and clap and be foolish. At least you have to do that to remain in good standing and be welcomed at your local org.

            But every Scientologist knows that essay, and when we ate shit, no matter the frosting, there was always this funny aftertaste…

            Still when you’re out of the organization for a time you regain your perspective and can more easily discern the good from the bad.

            • DeElizabethan

              So right Dan, in my view and experience too!

        • MaxSpaceman

          Am assuming you and the others you co-audit with have picked up e-meters off eBay or wherever and use them for auditing.

          • Eclipse-girl

            When dianetics came out, e-meters were not used.

            • MaxSpaceman

              I didn’t hear Dan say he was only doing dianetic auditing. All other auditing requires the cans.

            • Eclipse-girl

              Very true.

              I just find it similar to the changes Joe Smith did to mormonism when he felt he was losing control of the flock.

            • danlocke

              Even from LRH’s viewpoint there’s much auditing that does not require a meter. Just as an example, most, if not all of the Grade 0 processes were initially ran without meters. In Level 0 training it used to be that the only reason a meter was in the session at all was so as to get the auditor familiar with running it.

              I believe that here, from this audience of Tony’s, any two of you having a friendly interest in each other and a not-too-skeptical attitude about what they were doing could audit each other with benefit and without a meter on Grade 0 processes. I’d wager that a big percentage of you would believe you had benefited. At the same time you also would not feel that you had to bow down to ElRon three times a day or stand and clap at his picture that you had hung in your living room. But, you would benefit I am confident.

              Just look up on the net “Grade 0 processes Scientology” and read them. If you can set aside your skepticism for a few minutes and just read them with some benefit of the doubt, you’ll get an idea of their validity and worth.

              There’s other points where Scientology went completely off it’s rockers, but there’s many processes that would be welcome in the tool chest of many of the best therapists or people involved in human development.

            • OrangySky

              I’d argue that Hubbard took these things directly FROM the tool chests of many of the best therapists and people involved in human development. He packaged them in such a way to make them uniquely Scientology, but he was no pioneer. There were many schools of early psychology that preceded him, and most of them used techniques that were similar if not the same. Jung even experimented with an e-meter like device for a time.

            • danlocke

              He certainly reaped the benefits of many who preceded him as well as people who were students early on. Students were initially encouraged to test things and to recommend there own procedures and they did. In Keeping Scientology Working, he says that hardly anyone had contributed anything in terms of research, but that’s just not true. Some of the most valuable processes in Scientology were brought about by others and were then stomped on or made to shut up about it.

              I have only one story where I have personal knowledge of this, and it’s a bit different but you will get the idea. Particularly once the SO was begun, virtually everything that Ron ever said was noted by someone and kept in files. Now, when he would write dispatches to people just telling them what he wanted to do, these would also be recorded and filed in various ways. These were often called “advices” and were never widely distributed, but when something had to be done that these advices had something to be done with, they’d be drug out of some file cabinet somewhere and you’d get to read them. That is, if you were in the Sea Org and were on a mission or were some sort of executive.

              So, even though there’s supposed to be no “Hidden Data Line” (policy says that all the bulletins and procedures of Scientology are supposed to be very transparent and everyone is supposed to be able to know how it all works), there are tons of these advices that the higher ups are running on all the time that the hoi polloi know not what of. And they are typically written for one circumstance but then people get all messed up and think that every sentence ever written by Ron is gospel and has to be followed, so it’s applied to everything, everywhere. And it often makes a dog’s breakfast out of a lot of things.

              Well, I got to read some of those connected to an early promotional film called, “The Case He Couldn’t Crack”. Like all his films, this was a very amateur production, but there were some shiny spots in it, the best of which was a very dramatic solo violin piece that was quite complex and dramatic. It was definitely the best part of the movie. It comes right at the end, and then the credits rolled. And it was L. Ron Hubbard who was credited for everything: original story, script, photography, EVERYTHING. I thought at the time, “Gee Ron is totally amazing!” I thought, “Man, this guy has really learned something since the Power of Source LP.”

              Well, years later, for some reason or another I forget, I read the advices that came out about that film. Turns out the real composer for the violin solo was a very popular multi-talented Scientologist of the time, LaMont Johnson. LaMont was a very amazing fellow; he had all the things going for him that I thought really seemed OT at the time. Poised, handsome, singer, dancer, composer, Class VIII auditor, graduated everything and loved LRH.

              But the advice said, bluntly, “take LaMont’s name out of the film and credit L.Ron Hubbard with all music in the film”.

              I know: that’s just one instance of me seeing it with my own eyes. But, it was an eye-opener for me; it started me looking a little more closely at everything since then. And when people explain to me that “Horner did that, McMaster developed that, etc…” I no longer doubt it; I suspect it’s true.

            • DeElizabethan

              Thanks Dan, good to hear.

            • Sir Hemet TC Burlwood, VIII

              I think that, for most folks here, the baby was removed from that ocean of shitty bathwater long ago. I’m glad you were able to get that abused, deformed baby out of there, Dan, and I believe that you did, but for us skeptical never-ins, it sure seems like it is was a giant misperception, deceptively induced, that there was ever anything genuinely good in there. Like Orange Sky said, Hubbard stole the tools. And he left such a stink on them that anyone with a modicum of skepticism wouldn’t go near auditing, especially when the benefits can be had so easily elsewhere.

          • danlocke

            Most of my co-auditing was done in the 70’s. The Mark V meter cost, at that time as I recall, about $125.00.

            I think that the meter is not necessary for most auditing, dianetic or scientology or anything else. There’s a lot of independent Scientologists who would disagree with me on that. It’s just my own personal feeling about that.

            • Eclipse-girl

              You write about having a “genuine, attentive and not self serving interest on the part of the counselor” dealing with your auditing.
              How is that different from professional therapy or counseling?

            • danlocke

              I am guessing that you mean professional therapy or counseling within the Church? Or do you mean non-Scientology counseling or therapy? Please clarify and I will see if I can reply. (I think I would have answers to the former; I am not sure I know enough to reply to the latter.)

            • Eclipse-girl

              I mean professional counseling from a trained therapist OUTSIDE of any church.

              I have had some mental health issues in the past. i went to therapy.
              I discussed problems and learned strategies for dealing with issues.
              The counselor , a good counselor, wants to help the person overcome their issues that brought them to counseling in the first place.

            • danlocke

              I am certain that having a genuine, attentive and not self serving interest on the part of the counselor would be vital to any counseling anywhere.

              From my point of view the attraction for many who come to Scientology for counseling is that it is supposed to be non-evaluative and non-invalidative. And it was, in the main part, for many people much of the time.

              There are a few breaks of that though that have gotten more serious and more frequent over the years. This is the evaluation that is inherent in sec checking and in the false purpose rundown and in much of the OT levels.

              Sec Checking is a political device that is used to bring about conformance. If you are thinking in ways that someone in control does not like, off you go to your sec check.

              And in the OT levels you are told what to think about your case. You are informed from authority that different things happened in all of our past and you are expected to assume that it is all true and go off and run it.

              In the false purpose rundown it is assumed that you harbor evil intentions. You have to assume this too in order to do the rundown.

              There are probably other examples. But in most of all the other auditing you are not evaluated for or invalidated.

            • Eclipse-girl

              What i wanted to find out, and it is a hypothesis of mine, is that the initial auditing processes, and the initial wins one might have is very similar to what might happen to someone who uses (professional) therapy / counseling.

              I am aware that Dr Winter, an early supportor of Dianetics, started to have doubts about people not educated in psychology becoming auditors.

        • richelieu jr

          Why not ignore it all and go to the real sources of Hubbard’s flim-flam?

          Imagine how much more you could do if you didn’t choose to start from the twisted work of a pathological liar?

          • MaxSpaceman

            At the same time, Rjr., *so* many people since the early 1950s speak of things that do *work* for them. Along the lines of maybe self-auditing the 600+ questions in Hubbardz Self-Analysis. Just saying that some of the processes from the 1950s mightn’t be “twisted”. But I am not sure about this, Rjr., and basically I agree, and wouldn’t mess with any of it, as similar ‘wins’ can be had elsewhere, no doubt.

        • OrangySky

          “Selective Scientology”? Well that makes you an SP, Dan, you Squirrel ๐Ÿ˜‰
          Seriously, more power to you.
          May I ask, to what aspect of the OTV exercises do you attribute the ‘very very very good feelings?’
          To me, lying around visualizing stuff like seeing a spot on the sun sounds kind of fun and relaxing. Like a creativity-enhancing exercise ( writers and actors use exercises like this to open up their imaginations.)
          But how on earth could anyone CHARGE MONEY FOR IT?
          And how can there be people who then can tell you that your imagination is somehow wrong if you don’t visualize the right thing?
          They can because in Scientology, it’s not your imagination, it’s fact.

          • danlocke

            Like I said, I did not audit the entity stuff. I was on staff most of my tenure in Scn and was always broke. Before I did the SO I did a ton of co-auditing and book auditing that was Scientology auditing with and without emeters. Pretty typical in the late 60’s early 70’s and very typical before then. The SO started clamping down on the fun of it all more and more as they got bigger and tougher and dumber.

            So, I put my life in Scn, but no money.

            I have received some auditing in the independent field since and I am very pleased with it. Very unconventional and totally squirrel. Even over skype. But I would never get auditing again within the dark confines of the church. You can’t even breathe there.

    • Lord Xenu, OT XV

      On the topic of feeling very, very, very good; supposedly some believe that T’ai chi, Pilates, yoga, etc. trigger endorphins (neurotransmitters in the brain that produce a feeling of well-being). Maybe this is all that is going on with LRH’s “tech,” which I understand has a basis in Aleister Crowley “tech” and hypnosis. (http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2012/02/scientology_and_4.php)

      • Kristi Evans

        That ‘tech’ (or any thing or activity related to endorphin release) would then nearly automatically generate feelings of pleasure or satisfaction when used, yes? On some level, isn’t that a pavlovian response? You hold the e-meter cans, expecting to feel good at the end of your session, and you just ‘do’. That’s what I suspect… Sorta the way I used to feel when I looked at a cold beer or a pack of cigarettes. I’m not denigrating any of what Dan is saying, by the way – on the contrary, maybe auditing, done by well-intentioned independents, is in fact the better way to go than what I used, by far. I won’t be trying Scientology pieces, but I wonder if pavlovian response goes into effect here.

        • danlocke

          I also had auditing that was evaluative and that invalidated or was suspicious in nature (e.g., security checking) and I don’t think that I could think of things quite so nice to say about that. So, I don’t think you can explain it all as a stimulus response.

          A genuine, attentive and not self serving interest on the part of the counselor has a lot to do with the benefit of it when it works, and that is the general attitude of most of their practitioners. A safe auditing environment is also helpful, and the general atmosphere of all Scientology organizations has become more stressful over the years, with more and more pressure to buy more and more things, with more and more emergencies and urgent briefings, etc.

          Back in the day when I was a staff member, occasionally field auditors would bring their pcs into the org to do courses or something that a field auditor was not authorized to do in the field. Usually within a couple of days and sometimes within a couple of minutes these people would be pretty confused by some thing or things that they would observe going on within the org: a staff member taking a dressing from an executive, the pressure of a registrar interview, a dozen different screwball things that were part of the day to day life in an org.

          Most (but not all) of the BS that people are subjected to in a Scientology organization are consequences of their administrative and “ethics and justice” policies.

    • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

      Not to tease but I do want to relate an experience.

      Sixteen years ago I got very ill unexpectedly. I was in the hospital for quite a while and at a certain point the head of the department came to me with several young doctors in tow and said that they treated the whole person not just the physical person, and felt that I needed psychiatric care.

      I thought that if I said no, they would think me crazy and obstinate. If I said yes, they would just think I was crazy. Here, in the land of free medical service, I accepted the care of a psychiatrist.

      When he came I told him what I had been through and told him that I thought that all things considered I had managed pretty well.

      I think the whole thing, with me lying there in a hospital bed, took about ten minutes, certainly no more than fifteen. He asked me questions that resembled Freudian psychotherapy and also resembled Dianetics (the less crazy parts). He took me into my past and touched on some of the horrors of my life. I cried a lot. Eventually the questions took me in another direction and I was laughing (good indicator!) At exactly that point he agreed with me, saying that I do handle my problems pretty well.

      We shook hands. He left. I never saw him again. Hopefully, he spent his career giving help to those who needed it.

      Was the “leave ’em laughing” a technique used by the psychiatrist to make me feel that things had gone well? I must assume so. Would an unscrupulous group, like Scientology, use the same technique to make a person feel that something was actually accomplished? That has been my assumption for all these years.

      • joan nieman

        Hmm. That seems very strange Korgo. It is almost like an intern experiment of sorts. I realy don’t see the validation of such a procedure. Very strange.

        • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

          Thanks for the input. Actually, thinking about it, here is another angle.

          What happened to me (physically) was so strange that I actually ended up on the Discovery Channel as someone who was the antithesis of the type of person who usually got this disorder, The problem went on and on for months and while I don’t think I was being touchy, the nursing staff probably thought otherwise.

          I suspect that when they or anyone else examined what I was doing, it was perfectly normal, all things being considered. That seemed painfully obvious to me and to the psychiatrist.

          As for the “leave ’em laughing,” could that be a hidden technique of psychiatry? It is a hidden technique of comedy. Even bad comedians end with their “A” material to create the illusion that the show was all good. School teachers teach the most important things at the start and the end of a lesson because that is where childen best remember. Musicians do the signature song in the encore. I am speculating but I really do think that the psychiatrist that saw me acted with purpose by quitting after I related something joyful.

          • OrangySky

            It could be just a common sense technique. Used in show biz, in sales, in a variety of circumstances. The person’s last impression is the one they’ll take with them.

          • Sir Hemet TC Burlwood, VIII

            Joan N, doesn’t sound strange to me. And MKT, I think that you are spot on the spot. But I don’t know if I would call that a hidden technique of psychiatry, when it seems just as likely that he was a decent person fulfilling his professional role. Sounds like a routine hospital consult, and like you said, after spending some time with you, it was obvious that you were coping well with your situation and did not need any further psychiatric care. So he found a good point to take his leave and to go write WNL in your medical chart, probably in less than 3 sentences (for which your insurance company was billed, I’m guessing, about $400). If he told you to never talk to anyone about what y’all had discussed and called you later to say that, without his help, you would never be rid of your ruin, then I would be worried.

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              I laughed when I got to the Scientology parallel at the end.

              In Canada, the average psychiatrist earns less than the average Family Practitioner. It is the only medical specialty that averages less money than someone without the extra education. I think this says something good about the profession, at least as it is practiced here.

          • joan nieman

            It’s almost as though you were an experiment for the students or interns at that hospital, at that particular time. It sounded as though you out smarted them anyway! Good for you.

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              Thanks for the observation and the kind words.

              I have great respect for the medical system and medical professionals. They deserve it. In Canada our most respected people on every survey in the last decade shows nurses at the top. In the US it is military personnel with nurses second. I would have become a doctor but for two reasons– I hate the sight of blood and I had a D average in first year science.

              Nonetheless. Those guys don’t know everything. I like it when scientists don’t know what is going on– they admit it. At one point a very young medical specialist was looking at me and really, he didn’t have a clue but couched it in language that would have give me confidence in him. He called over another very young man, a friend, who didn’t have a clue either but who also used language that would hide that fact from me. They called over the department head (the same guy who got me to see the psychiatrist). He observed the situation and told the very young men what they were missing. He made a definitive statement in which I had the fullest confidence.

              Moral: The two young men wouldn’t lie to themselves or one another but they wanted to maintain their self image before the patients as experts in their fields. But they did not have so much bravado that they wouldn’t look for knowledge that they needed.

              Compare that to Scientology.

            • joan nieman

              I worked in the medical field. It is good ethics to always keep educating yourself by studying and attending inservices and special work shops. A nurse or doctor must always let the patient know they are in control. It encourages confidence in the staff and the hospital. Usually, the best care and treatment will always be given.

    • cs sarabia

      “but many come out of such sessions feeling very, very good.”

      ” And there’s many here who are currently detractors who will tell you that Scientology auditing at least and often pulled that off. It brought about good feelings; generally a feeling of well being and freedom.”

      It sounds like you are describing an addictive process, danlocke. I’m sure the feelings of well-being and freedom are somewhat fleeting. How long do they last and how long before people want to feel that way again? The answer is go back through the sessions hoping to feel the same way again. Maybe some produce the feelings and some don’t. (simple behavioral principle: a variable, somewhat random reinforcement schedule tends to condition seeking behaviors the most. Casinos know this.) And people keep going back for more! There must be a point of diminishing returns when maybe they’re no longer feeling so great after sessions, yet they keep going back hoping maybe to capture it again. And at some point around OT5 illness and death start kicking in. Of course, there’s no epidemiological data, but many people have made the observation that premature death. Maybe they’re sinking so much money into Co$ that they aren’t paying for healthcare. Who knows. Point is people die.

      I’m obviously drawing a parallel to drug addiction as Philip Seymour Hoffman is in our minds these days. A heroin high is supposed to produce the most sublime feelings of well-being and freedom and nothing else matters. PSH spent $1,200 in his last heroin purchase. Don’t know how much he spent cumulatively, but I suspect it’s less than $288,105.50.

      • chukicita

        Going bowling or having a coffee/beer and talk with some good friends is typically under $20.

        • OrangySky

          Watching sunset = free.

        • cs sarabia

          But there is no mystique about spirituality associated with bowling or spending time with friends. They make us feel good, but they’re kind of mundane activities. People ascribe a lot of meaning to activities they consider spiritual and have expectations about being delivered to something or from something. To a higher plane of existence or removing sin, whatever. Also, there’s usually no “rush” involved. I interpreted danlocke’s description of feelings of well-being or freedom that way. Personally, I find communing with my friends and other humans the closest I ever come to a spiritual experience. Some people want more and get hooked to something they believe is more special or significant.

          • chukicita
          • danlocke

            I don’t think that I have EVER heard a complaint about auditing that occurred between two friends in a co-audit that was any worse than “it didn’t do anything for me”. That’s the worst I have ever heard.

            All the complaints that I have heard were from people who were getting auditing under varying levels of duress. They were put under pressure to buy it and they were under financial duress as they received it. I don’t know all the bad stories, but I know a lot of them and all them that I know of the people hurt were also hurt financially before it all went totally haywire.

            Talk with any old time Scientologist, even if he’s out now and is pissed off, and they will generally have fond memories of their co-audits. At worst, I think, they might say, “Didn’t work for me!” But no tales of feeling like they’re going crazy, etc. It’s the later crazy reg cycles to buy this or that with no regard to the security of the person being sold, it’s crazy org stuff and injustices that make people pissed about the subject.

            Suggestion: explore the net for any simple grades process that piques your interest, find a friend, and do the process. It really truly won’t hurt you and you might have a lot of fun. It’s a wonderful way to interact with a friend. Those processes are eye, mind and heart openers. You won’t regret it.

    • sizzle8

      Dan, Very well stated.

  • Espiando

    Given the routines, the E/P of this level should be: “The universe is big. Really big. And you are an inconsequential little spot totally lost in its vastness.” Imagine Scientology infused with a bit of humility in the process. Of course, that would have required the person who created it be capable of a bit of humility, and we know how untrue that is.

    • ze moo

      You get a much better philosophical treat in Monty Python’s ‘Meaning of Life’.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buqtdpuZxvk

      • Espiando

        And this is what makes the Pythons better than Hubtard: when Professor Brian Cox asked Idle to redo some of the lyrics to the Galaxy Song to correct some of the figures that had been proven wrong in the last thirty years, Idle happily did so.

  • Rachel

    Off topic – anyone else spotted Kirsty Alley’s facebook page entry asking “What is your vote for best Super Bowl Ad???” Is she collecting stats for Co$? Not one post mentions Scilon Ad – Budweiser puppy is definitely the winner.

    • RMycroft

      Too bad for her that Scientology’s local ads don’t really count.

  • RMycroft

    By now, anyone who had done the Original OT 5 would have been sent back around to do Magic Capet Ride to Crazy the levels again. And again. And again.

    • richelieu jr

      Snakes and Ladders, Scientology-style!

      • RMycroft

        Scientology has no ladders.

  • WierdHarold

    Major cognition: This is all horsefeathers.

  • Eclipse-girl

    Some of us at WWP are doing various experiments with what it takes to get some ads down.
    We are coming to the conclusion that new ads are easier to take down than ads that have been up for a week.
    We also are trying to find out if local flagging is more effective than outside flagging

    If you do not regularly flag, please consider flagging if a city is in your home state. We are of the opinion that LOCAL flagging is effective.
    If the list are too long for you, concentrate on the NEWEST ads and do them first.

    So we have created various lists for people inside and outside of a state.

    Nevada residents please work on this list
    http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/search/bbb?query=%22702+731+1500%22%7C%22702+896+6892%22

    People outside of Nevada please flag the ads on this list
    http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/search/sss?query=%227545+bermuda%22%7C%222761+emerson%22

    Everyone can do the ads on this list
    http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/search/ccc?query=%22702+731+1500%22%7C%22702+896+6892%22

    New York State residents please work on this list
    http://newyork.craigslist.org/search/bbb?query=%22212+828+1825%22%7C%22212+921+1210%22

    People outside of NY state please work on this list
    http://newyork.craigslist.org/search/ccc?query=%22212+828+1825%22%7C%22212+921+1210%22

    Everyone can work on this list
    http://newyork.craigslist.org/search/eee?query=%22212+828+1825%22%7C%22212+921+1210%22

    California Residents please work on these lists
    http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/search/ccc?query=%22714+283+2134%22%7C%22714+544+5491%22
    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/ccc?query=%22408+428+2424%22%7C%22408+656+9276%22
    http://sacramento.craigslist.org/search/eee?query=%22916+519+5287%22%7C%22916+782+1272%22

    People outside of California please work on these lists
    http://losangeles.craigslist.org/search/sss?query=%2221010+devonshire%22%7C%229015+fullbright%22
    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/eee?query=%22408+409+5398%22%7C%22831+426+2146%22
    http://sacramento.craigslist.org/search/ccc?query=%22916+519+5287%22%7C%22916+782+1272%22

    Everyone can work on these lists
    http://losangeles.craigslist.org/search/eee?query=%2221010+devonshire%22%7C%229015+fullbright%22
    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/eee?query=%22408+428+2424%22%7C%22408+656+9276%22
    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/eee?query=%22408+724+8086%22%7C%22408+780+5061%22
    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/sss?query=%22117+easy+st*%22

    TY to everyone who is helping us in this effort.
    We are learning things about effective flagging of these ads.

    • SciWatcher

      Done. Thanks again for doing this! Are you guys still placing counter ads?

      • Eclipse-girl

        Some people are. I think you have to be in the local vicinity to place the counter ads.
        Do not name names or use their phone numbers. if you choose to place a counter ad.

        • The NY listings that you had out of state people flag already has 3 of the listings about to be taken down, according to craigslist. Good job, one and all!

    • richelieu jr

      I too am suddenly having trouble getting long-time ads taken down here that always came down immediately before…

      Perhaps I’ve been flagged as some no-goodnik?

      • Eclipse-girl

        CL may have changed the way they take down ads.

        hence the need for testing hypothesis.

        • Kristi Evans

          OK. Good data. Thanks!

        • Troy MacGyver

          me too,often they’d just come down.

    • Kristi Evans

      Thanks, E-g, done here, too. I find the ‘child trauma’ and ‘money problem’ ads to be +particularly+ infuriating. Thanks for letting us help… I’d better search CL in my neck of the woods. Is there any special search technique you use to uncover these scams – or are all of their ads largely the same?

  • Snuzey

    I’m definitely spotting something here…. L Ron’s egotistical bullshit..!

  • My name is Larry Lester

    Hubbard is source. And DM can easily say that Hubbard is in contact with him through a telepathic link/ Vulcan mind meld if you like. Just because Hubbard is dead it aint gona stop here.

    • Anonymous

      Come to think of it, I’m surprised Davey hasn’t tried something like that.

      • Espiando

        He saw what a failure another “captain”, Bill Robertson, made of that. Considering that it led to Cap’n Bill wearing dresses and waiting for The Date From Outer Space with Elron Elray, I can understand DM keeping well away from the revelatory route.

        • Dr_Orpheus

          Plus, I don’t think Babycorn has the creativity to come up with any brand new material. Correcting the old ones numerous times is as imaginative as he gets. If we wanted to avoid copying Captain Bill, he could have claimed to have discovered some new OT levels that were left by Blubbard in a secret vault.

          • Dylan

            that might work but all of the CST underground storage facilities were constructed after LRH passed. but the SLO house was where he lived and this could be the ground zero for the EPIC find. CSt now has this property and would be a great made up story. If Sarge could collaborate even some of the Indy’s might buy into it. ( big smile)

        • Anonymous

          Captain Bill: Truly insane even by Scientology standards.

      • Kristi Evans

        Me, too. Honestly never considered that possibility, Larry, but it does stand to reason that it *could* be used. I wonder if DM hasn’t pulled that out of his hat because he fears that the few remaining zombies might turn on him because of their love of Source – something that has been pounded into their blackened heads for years.

        • Anonymous

          He’s already the most blatant squirrel on Teageack. I don’t think he cares all that much about ‘Source.’

          • Kristi Evans

            *He* absolutely doesn’t care about Source. He does care about maintaining what’s left of his crumbling house. And hell, LRH “squirreled” his own stuff, didn’t he? Or he’s just another prophet that keeps changing “scripture” like Joe Smith did.

            • Kristi Evans

              … that +kept+ changing scripture… etc. OTOH, maybe he’s clearing the next galaxy and is still squirreling his scriptures.

      • Robert Eckert

        He has zero creativity. None, at all. He can’t make up new Hubbardisms.

        • Anonymous

          True.

    • Dylan

      I think that if DM took this route questions about his case and auditing level would come up quick. He is only adept in the Admin side of Scientology and I believe very lost when it comes to the Tech of Scientology. This is why he has so many sociopathic tendencies IMHO.

  • chukicita

    One thing (if i could only pick one out of the many) that disturbs me about this is the โ€œI really am a spiritual being separate from and senior to the physical universeโ€ part. It so goes against everything I was raised to understand, both spiritually and scientifically, as well as upending many other traditional belief systems that teach how everything is related.

    The whole hierarchic/linear framework of Hubbard’s work, from the emotional tone scale to the concept that one is at once separate from and “senior” to the universe one is immersed in is really NOT compatible with any belief system — not even itself.

  • Shirley Eugeste

    A major cog should be a wow, mind-blowing thing accompanied by โ€œvery very good indicators.โ€ There is a whole long list of โ€œgood indicatorsโ€ and another one of โ€œbad indicators.โ€

    Among the assorted run-of-the-mill cogs I have when I read about Scientology cogs, is the fact that our cogitating OS (yay neuroscience!) is not only flawed and unreliable, but it can be flawed and unreliable in a variety of different ways, all at once. Some of these ways we may predict, some may come as a complete surprise; we may influence some, we may think we influence some, but we don’t. Maybe we think other people are influencing us… but are they? And do we really know how?

    In 2001, Mark Salzman published “Lying Awake,” a little novel about a woman who enjoys a profound and real relationship with God, who bases her identity on this relationship to a very great extent (she’s a cloistered nun), and who learns that her “special relationship” is a symptom of a neurological disease. Treating the disease could mean no more of the mystical visions she had always interpreted as God’s grace.

    Anyway, read the book. Mark Salzman does a great job of skimming the surface (in a surprisingly meaningful way) of the question of how do we know what we know? (When is a cognition really/not really a cognition, and so what if it is/isn’t?)

    • Panopea Abrupta

      As opposed to “Lying, awake”, a novel on Scientology ghostwritten by El Con

      • Robert Eckert

        Or “Lying: A Wake”, a book reminiscing about the death of L. Ron.

        • Panopea Abrupta

          riverrun, past Eve and Adam’s, from swerve of shore to bend

          of bay, brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to

          Howth Castle and Environs.

          • Panopea Abrupta

            or perhaps this Wake:

            Rolled him up in a nice clean sheet, and laid him out upon the bed

            A bottle of whiskey at his feet and a barrel of porter at his head

            Whack fol the dah now dance to yer partner around the flure yer trotters shake

            Wasn’t it the truth I told you? Lots of fun at Finnegan’s Wake

          • Robert Eckert

            a way a lone a last a long the

    • Phil McKraken

      I love that book “Lying Awake.” Just one little correction — it wasn’t a neurological “disease,” but a tumor that was causing the seizures, during which she had the ecstatic visions. The outcome was that she recorded her visions in published poetry that made her somewhat famous and widely admired. After a mostly humdrum and disappointing career as a nun (prior to the tumor), she was reluctant to have the routine surgery that would correct the condition, and relinquish her specialness.

      That story has so many parallels to Scientology. It’s quite interesting. And it’s a beautiful little book.

      • Shirley Eugeste

        Thanks for the input… clearly it’s time for me to revisit Sister John.

  • BosonStark

    I went through the Catholic cuckoo, but it was all so damn cheap! I don’t think “the works” cost more than $60, adjusted for inflation. That people would pay so much for this simple nonsense definitely points to brainwashing and/or being trapped in a cult.

  • Phil McKraken

    I closed my eyes and spotted L Ron Hubbard burning in Hell.

    • I closed my eyes and spotted DM sucking his left thumb. He is hiding in a closet. A picture of Xenu is taped onto the inner side of the door.

      • Miss Tia

        I bet TC is in the closet with him!

    • joan nieman

      Yes Phil. He went right through the wall of fire but couldn’t make it back!

  • Racnad

    It’s not hard now to understand how someone who spend hours visualizing themselves out in space looking at sunspots could believe they could identify alien spacecraft as well, or imagine they are preventing auto accidents with energy beams while commuting to work. Success stories like these were common in Advance! Magazine in the 1970s, but around 1980 changed to “my havingness as a being in the MEST universe has increased 100X” word salad. A couple weeks ago we saw Kenneth Moxon’s wife give a Toastmaster’s speech describing how she recently saved the earth from an alien attack. She’s old enough to have done the original OT levels and I’ll bet that’s what allowed her to imagine it.

  • Racnad

    “When Mr. Hubbard was alive, when his discoveries did not produce the touted results, he could come out with a new discovery that explained why. Then everyone would have to do that. Mr. Miscavige, cannot simply dream up a whole new thing. Mr. Hubbard made it very clear that only he was Source. So Mr. Miscavige has to keep repackaging and โ€œfixingโ€ the things that Mr. Hubbard had issued.”

    This is very similar to a thing I wrote “What is Scientology in 100 Words.” Remember this or come up with your own for then you’re in discussions about it.

  • Observer
    • Eclipse-girl

      My deepest condolences to Mr Hoffman’s family and loved ones

      • pronoia

        He was obviously a very very sensitive and vulnerable man,a quality which was the source of his phenomenal talent but obviously in the end a curse in that he did not seem to have the resources to mediate his own personal pain and grief. Such a sad sad story.

        And anyone already selling stories to the tabloids about his last days! If they really were “present” is as guilty as any drug dealer — perhaps more so. Or they are just lying for money.

        • Eclipse-girl

          ^^^ X 1 000

    • media_lush
      • Jimmy Threetimes

        He had to get his 5 minutes before the man has even been buried? That’s pretty sick. I hope karma gets creative with him.

        • Eclipse-girl

          totally agree with you, JTx3

          whether or not it true, it is unseemly to speak of at this time.

        • D.Y.G.

          The TMZ vultures were harping on the needle still stuck in his arm before his body was even removed from his apartment.

          • Eclipse-girl

            I know. It was a detail no one needed to know.

            These are the reasons why I wonder why anyone wants to be “famous.”

            • D.Y.G.

              I was thinking the same thing myself. Why would anyone want to be either a politician, pop star, or an actor? You must have to just sign away your life, because nothing will ever really be private again.

      • Observer

        I’m not even going to dignify the allegations by reading the article. Even if it’s true, what PSH chose to do in his private life does not in any way diminish the tragedy of his death.

        • D.Y.G.

          What makes it noteworthy is not the gay angle. The person alleging the affair is the man PSH’s girlfriend called when he didn’t show to pick up his kids. So she trusted him enough to go to his apartment and see what was happening – and he went to the goddamned Enquirer.

          • Observer

            Ugh! I hope that douchebag is shamed and hounded for the rest of his natural life.

            • D.Y.G.

              You and me both. He was named in many articles as PSH’s playwright “friend”. Some friend. ๐Ÿ™

          • NOLAGirl

            Does everyone remember the Don Henley Song “Dirty Laundry”?

            Methinks Don may have had some “seeing into the future OT powers.” ; )

            ETA: I agree with what Jimmy said below….Karma is coming for this scumbag.

        • joan nieman

          OBS, so well said and with great respect.

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        Courtesy of the National Enquirer, no less…

      • BosonStark

        I always had a hard time thinking of him as straight, not just from the roles he played, but something else.

    • bigby

      As sad as the PSH story is, I don’t like the idea of vilifying his dealers.

      • Captain Howdy

        Soon as they start arresting the guy who owns the liquor store or the bar, I’ll stop calling them hypocrites.

  • richelieu jr

    $cientology: Stick with us and be better than everyone else;

    Leave and be an idiot whjo wasted their life and money on an obvious lie a three year-old could-detect.

    You are free to choose*

    *(though we reserve to the right to harass you to the point of suicide until the end of time.

    Because we’re a religion, see?)

  • Qbird

    3 years of the Sun in 3 minutes – Conserve it, Hide it, Age it, Rearrange it, Destroy it… all for the bargain basement price of $288,105.50! Pick a spot. Start.

    http://youtu.be/piuKlpJmjfg

    • MaxSpaceman

      Link not woiking for me qBirdie. EDIT: and now it is. Musta been in ghost in the machine ;->)

      • Eclipse-girl

        It worked for me?

        • MaxSpaceman

          wow- that’s good to know. Must exit/enter my browser again. Thanks for telling me. :->)

      • Qbird

        shoot Max – go to utube directly & search

        NASA | SDO: Three Years of Sun in Three Minutes.
        It is really quite beautiful – everything spinning.

    • Kristi Evans

      I had a major cognition. LRH was a complete blowhard and a semi-insane fraud. Thanks for helping me through OT5, Q-bird. I guess I owe you a quarter mil, plus or minus…

    • K2P2

      Thanks for posting that Qbird- it’s beautiful.
      I had a cognition. . .I’m a wee being, pretty insignificant as the universe goes. And that doeosn’t bother me in the least little bit.

  • Miss Tia

    Internets, knock on wood, are currently working….TWC called to make sure I was back online (I have Earthlink—HAHA!!!—but it’s serviced thru TWC) and I explained my issues, though it had been okay for the past hour and a half and they thought they were still reseting their fiber optic lines. If all else fails I’m to get a new modem, though i can’t really go out today as we have a level 2 emergency due to the sleet….if anyone is interested, i did finish my gay equality weekend essay for my vintage ads community…..

    so, since the internets were working, i sent some more tweets! ๐Ÿ™‚

    After having their house of frivolity pretty much collapse yesterday in court @scientology needs to be prepping niblet for his depo.

    Apparently even though it’s a civil case niblet @scientology CAN plead the 5th, though it’s basically an admission of guilt. #Guilty

    Regarding @scientology copyrights have they copyrighted lying? defrauding people? intimidating people? I mean that’s church doctrine! [inspired by Deimos, thank you! ๐Ÿ™‚ ]

    Is that why they edited the video? Cuz @scientology couldn’t have their TRADEMARKED intimidation secrets get out? Seems crazy but they are! [inspired by Deimos, thank you again! ๐Ÿ™‚ ]

    It basically comes down to 2 things. 1) @scientology only wants to profit off people and 2) niblet has a raging boner for revenge.

    niblet @scientology has major blue balls over his campaign of revenge against Marty Rathbun. What kind of religious leader does this stuff?

    What kind of religious leader like niblet @scientology holds people PRISIONER, makes his wife disappear & abuses people? #DICKtator

    niblet @scientology also inures himself thereby violating IRS rules & @TomCruise inures himself via the Co$ too. #Fraud #IRS

    WHERE IS SHELLY MISCAVIGE @scientology?? Where’s Heber Jenztsch? Where’s Diana Hubbard? Why are so many people just ‘missing’? #NotNormal

    • Kristi Evans

      By the way, Miss Tia, niblet (lower case), is currently my favorite nickname for Herr Fuhrer. Love it. Just thought I’d compliment the deliciousness of that invention.

      • Miss Tia

        thank you!!! yeah, niblet was a natural evolution for me, from ‘cob’…..

        • ze moo

          I too admire the niblet of COB.

          • Miss Tia

            “niblet of COB” okay that right there takes it to another level! ๐Ÿ˜€

    • Kristi Evans

      Also, I did not know that the 5th could be taken in a civil case. That is incredibly disappointing.

      • Miss Tia

        that’s what someone said last night, linking to a case….though in a civil case a judge and/or jury would infer it as an admission of guilt instead of how it’s viewed in a criminal case….so it actually would be rather amusing if he used it repeatedly in a depo! ๐Ÿ™‚

      • Observer

        No it isn’t. ๐Ÿ™‚ I posted this yesterday:

        I hope he does take the Fifth, and that he invokes it a lot. In a civil case, unlike a criminal case, taking the Fifth can be interpreted as inference of guilt by judges and juries. This is from a Texas judge:

        This principle is well-established in the criminal context where juries are instructed that the defendant cannot be compelled to testify, and that if he exercises his right not to testify, the jury cannot use this as any evidence of guilt whatsoever.

        In civil cases, however, the juries receive no such instruction. First of all, any party or witness in a civil case may be called to testify, whether they are facing criminal charges or not. Second, witnesses in civil actions do not enjoy an unfettered right to refuse to answer questions on Fifth Amendment grounds. Finally, in a civil case it is perfectly permissible for a judge or jury to infer that a witness is guilty of wrongdoing if they invoke the Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination in response to a question. (Of course, civil juries canโ€™t send witnesses to jail for invoking the Fifth Amendment; they can only find them civilly liable.)

        • Miss Tia

          Yep! sorry my mind blanked on who linked this last night!! Apologies!!! I’m still somewhat short circuited from internet connection issues from yesterday! ๐Ÿ˜€

          Totally agree, hope he takes the 5th again and again and again!!

        • Kristi Evans

          My concern about the 5th is this: we are so conditioned to not hold it against a guy for using it, that the jury may be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt than they otherwise should. OR, do civil lawyers or does the judge let the jury know that pleading the 5th in *civil* cases, +could+ be thought of as tantamount to an admission of guilt?

          • Kristi Evans

            Sorry to belabor this point. I’m just cynical that DM will ever be forced face the music or utter a single truth except the equivalent of “I’m protecting myself”.

            • MaxSpaceman

              Some say Davey-The Asthmatic Dwarf-Miscavige will exhaust devise any/every scheduling problem, and excercise every appeal, spending any amount of money, to ‘not’ be compelled to sit for a deposition. A demented hatred of Marty is the motivator. Am hoping by 4th of July a depo from the Machiavellian Toxic Demento Midget Miscavige. That would be grand!

            • Observer

              If that happens, Comal County wouldn’t need to pay for a fireworks displays this year!

          • Observer

            Juries are thoroughly instructed on what they can and cannot consider regardless of what type of trial it is. And I can’t imagine any juror wanting to give DM the benefit of the doubt on stalking, harassing, and sending dildos to an innocent woman’s workplace.

            • Kristi Evans

              OK… and you are absolutely right, I think, Obs. I cannot imagine that this guy has the personality to hold up well outside of his comfort zone. He didn’t exactly hit the Koppel interview out of the park, back in the day, did he? He hasn’t been interviewed extensively by the wog media since then… and compared to what that TX courthouse will be like, that sit-down with Ted was a walk in a park of daisies.

              Thanks!

  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

    While most people take one look at Scientology and run away, even Scientologists have a hard time swallowing this nonsense. Here is my evidence.

    One friend was a staff member, there for seven years and he never even got on the grade chart. He was told that was because he had a “bad case”. In fact, he had a good case. He couldn’t tell himself that things were happening that weren’t happening.

    At a picket I met a fellow name Arthur Beauregard, a Scientologist who had been in there twenty years. I was going to debate “clear” with him, asking him to demonstrate what Hubbard claimed in DMSMH and when he couldn’t tell him how little wiggle room Hubbard gave himself. It turned out that after twenty years he still wasn’t clear! I reminded him that even back in 1950 it took most people only 200 hours (according to Hubbard) to go clear. I don’t know what happened to Mr. Beauregard.

    Another friend was in the Sea Org in for 23 years and got to OT5 before being declared suppressive. His brain was as washed as a brain could be but he still couldn’t get those bigger cognitions. He couldn’t convince himself that he had control over MEST. He did believe that he had gained some superpowers and last I heard he still thinks he has them.

    I can hardly imagine what an OT8 must think, though I was enlightened by the Hubbard recording last week which essentially said, “You will have control over ANOTHER universe, not this one”. I would be very disappointed had I plunked down half a million for that. I have heard of bait and switch scams on large appliances but not on entire universes. Hubbard was the king.

    • Robert Eckert

      “I have heard of bait and switch scams on large appliances but not on entire universes” belongs on MK’s Things Said about Scientology

  • Caught In the Snow

    Hi all. Way off topic, but I haven’t seen any mention of the Vice article discussing the Scio ads. I’ve linked to the piece below in case folks missed it. Congrats to Team Mosey for yesterday’s wins!

    http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/scientologys-super-bowl-ad-is-a-rebranding-effort-to-lure-the-techno-elite

    • Panopea Abrupta

      Excellent, thank you.

      The phrase that stuck out for me:
      “the existentially bankrupt techno-utopias”
      when discussing the pseudoscience’s attempt to clone Apple ads.

      It serves as a description of the cult if edited thus:
      “the existentially bankrupt tech, no utopias”

    • Baby

      OMG Snow.. I love your Avi.. Never change it.. and your name..Love it..

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        Poor kitteh…

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    I think that many of us grew up with OTV, whether we realized it or not:

    • IBBy

      I was OT in kindergarten and didnt even know it??? Mind. Blown.

    • OrangySky

      Brilliant, DDD!

    • HelluvaHoax!

      “See Spot. Spot a Spot. Spot a Spot in the room”

      LOLOL

      So…..when my 1st grade book said “See Jane run…” they were talking about running a process?

      Whoa! Ron’s tech is everywhere!

    • Shirley Eugeste

      Richard Scarry taught me to beware even innocuous-seeming obfuscation tactics. (To this day I have never bought a brush from an octopus!)

    • Shirley Eugeste

      I suppose we’re meant to believe our friend in the pink dress is tying a ribbon in her hair… but is it just me or does she have a completely demented look on her face and does she appear to be digging into her skull with either pink or bloodstained sticks of some sort? Maybe going after that implant? And our two black and white friends (two children, one pretending to be a dog? Or two dogs, one pretending to be a child?) are so alarmed by her behavior that they’ve interrupted whatever divination ritual they were conducting in Mother’s Revere Ware? Freaky, man.

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        Wish I could give you another upvote for identifying the Revere Ware.

        • Shirley Eugeste

          I know nothing about Scientology, except what I learn here, so I feel I have to contribute in other ways.

  • Dan

    I like how he wrote “spot a spot”. It’s much more fun to say than “imagine a place”. Spot a spot a spot of spots! Wheee!

    • Panopea Abrupta

      101 Dalmatians

  • Well damn! I have not scraped off my invisible murdered space alien infestations from OT4 yet. ๐Ÿ™ At this rate I’ll never catch up with Tom Cruise.

  • cdub

    We were told that ageless and timeless thetans (souls) can free themselves from the endless cycle of birth and death, whereby a person loses his identity, so to speak, at death, and then upon being born again must learn everything all over, through Scientology. We must have assumed this was some technique taught in the upper levels. But now I’ve come to think it was supposed to bind us all to Scientology “forever”, or it was supposed to be the result of all the training/auditing cumulatively.
    I mean, besides the BS factor, of course.

    • MaxSpaceman

      Right, cDub– no specific rundown or process to acquire that ‘freedom’. It looks like it became a default assumption – in all members – that their lifetime training/processing/auditing is like compound interest and cumulatively results in AT CAUSE OVER END-OF-LIFE.

      —- That would be like where a guy’s going to pass away, he feels it’s time to go. He decides he’s going to drop the body. So he directs the cessation of all PT meat body processes; his breathing stops, his heart ceases beating, his pulse vanishes, he flat-lines.

      —- Oh, cool – then at that present time, he (the real him, the Thetan) goes exterior to his dead body. And goes off. At cause. To go find a new meat body. Start his next lifetime will full awareness of his just-passed lifetime.

      Uhm- I guess $cilons believe Hubbtard departed earth like that and must never see how he left shot full of Vistaril every day, with a giant sebaceous-ness in the middle of his forehead, with the teeth rotten in his mouth, afraid in hiding from facing his predicament like a man and deal with life and society and the times he lived in. He died a punk afraid.

      • cdub

        Thanks for the confirmation. I’ve been reviewing all the trash I was force fed for 10 years when this one popped out at me. I definitely remember it being discussed at length around our org but couldn’t think of any specific process or training that accomplished it. I vaguely can imagine Hubbard’s voice on tape saying something like this too. And then Hubbard’s death and the strange glorification of him (the thetan) speeding off to wherever. As if he accomplished this on a grand scale.

  • Jonathan Cummings

    I know this is totally off topic but HBO-W is playing that cinematic masterpiece Battlefield Earth at this very moment on the west coast. I am about to change the channel, but I must say that the closeted gay villain (JT) sure does a lot of overacting in this film and how many times must he say the word leverage? I also feel a bit bad that wonderful actor Forest Whitaker has to live the rest of his life with this with this piece of shit movie on his resume, but I am sure winning the Oscar six years later for The Last King of Scotland takes much of the sting away!

    • ze moo

      Forest cashed his check and payed his rent. He was happy with that.

      If asked nicely and privately, I wonder what he and Barry Pepper would say about that movie?

      • Baby

        I bet Forest had a lot of ” Just Shoot Me Moments ” when Travolta laid on his Scn Bull Shit to him.

    • Robert Eckert
  • sugarplumfairy

    The fact that anyone, anywhere has ever progressed to OT level 5 is simply amazing and certainly lends credence to the impressive, talented, effective charlatan that hubbard really was..

    • Kristi Evans

      Agreed. I marvel at that fact, quite often.

    • Eclipse-girl

      I think it is less than 1% of those who have ever taken a personality or IQ test, get that far.

      I thought someone had the numbers.
      90% drop with in two years.
      of those that remain, 50% will drop before that reach clear.

      If that is accurate only 5% of those who first took a test become eligible for the OT levels. There has to be more atrition at each level

    • ze moo

      In the ‘good old days’ Hubbard had a lot of help in the form of well trained case supervisors. body routers and auditors. All of them could make good money by selling the scam. That financial incentive is what made Dianetics and $cientology. Hubbard gave them the tools of woo, but they made it ‘work’ {ruin finding?} on the new meat.

      That Hubbard eventually added the moving target and even more imaginary woo to the mix is just a sign of income dropping. Those who don’t buy in to the woo are cut out and sent away, they aren’t worth the time, time better spent on the marks who are willing to spend money.

      • Mooser

        I would like to engrave the first paragraph of your comment on titanium plates, and put it in a sealed capsule for our posteriors.

        Keeping up the “spread-it-around” system, and rewarding a few long-time execs with even a fraction of the rewards expected by any exec who was put in a quarter-century of faithful work for the firm, and the whole story would have been a lot different!

    • Observer

      In Hubbard’s case, those adjectives, while fitting, are not compliments.

      • sugarplumfairy

        egggxactly..

      • Baby

        Yeah.. I hesitated for a split moment for an upvote.. but you and SPF are right!

  • Dylan

    “Then through repetition of this, and with the help of various re-enforcement mechanisms of the whole auditing system, the person gets more and more confident that these thoughts really are past-life experiences. If one fails to โ€œperceive the motion of the earthโ€ or find the past-life incident, then there is something wrong with that person. They then have to get expensive repair auditing, or have to re-do levels already supposedly done, or one might even be suppressive.”

    Thanks Bruce. This really was an ah ha moment for me this morning. Getting into Scientology so young I was groomed the normal way ( to accept and believe what I was fed.) I did not receive much auditing prior to getting into the SeaOrg. The only auditing I had done was take the Self Analysis course. Other than that I had done hard TR’s Upper Indoc’s and student hat. Then right into the Sea ORg. I did my EPF (estates project force) and CMO EPF. I had more questions than answers about the Bridge to total freedom. Upon graduation of the EPF you are told that you are now OT and you no longer have a CASE. not by some random sea org’er but the commodore himself,at least in written form. I had never fully believed in past lives. It just did not make sense to me. Through your explanation here I see why so many of the young kids are CS’ed for the False Purpose Rundown. The repetition of going over past lives gets one wondering if it is all made up or had I really been there. I Knew half the stuff I said was made up as I had seen it in movies. There are still many layers for me to peel off but this was a good one and an Eye opener. Thanks Bruce and CH for doing this and getting the truth out.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.

  • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

    I posted this late on yesterday’s post. Putting it up again, for those who did not see it then.

    Alexa update for Feb. 4: *refresh for images*

    Tony: US rank #15,704 โ€“ up 3 from yesterday.
    Scientology: US rank #49,437 โ€“ down 4,813 from yesterday.

    Difference: 33,733 โ€“ 4,816 more than yesterday.

    Lowest US rank for Scientology since I started monitoring on Oct. 14.

    Biggest difference since Nov. 11.

    • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

      Also the Google Trends search results including Monday Feb. 3. Shows definite spike in search traffic for Scientology after the SB commercials.

      • Observer

        I bet most if not all of those searches were the result of people being incredulous at what they saw in the ad rather than genuine interest in Scientology.

      • cdub

        Since xenu.net is in the top 10 when people search for Scientology, I doubt that spike did them any good.

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        Fixed it:

        • Mark

          Which (mitn bisl glick) will be followed by “Nanu?!?!”, “Oy gevalt!” and then “Oy vey iz mir – bin ikh farblondjet…”

    • Eclipse-girl

      lowest rank since Oct 14. That is excellent news. TY for doing this

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      I guess Scientology just can’t get it up any more…

      (refresh)

      • NOLAGirl

        Must be tough for Wee Davey when he realizes the fringes of the internet have come together and formed a rope. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • K2P2

      I’m to polite to mention what Scientology’s drooping red line reminds me of. . .;-)
      but I hope it keeps going in that direction. .

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        Such a guy thing to notice…

        • K2P2

          Well, after almost 40 years married to Mr.K2P2, I can recognize an afterglow when I see it. ๐Ÿ™‚
          I’d wish Co$ a nice afterglow, but that seems too kind.

    • Illinoisian

      So Co$ ran ads in the most expensive time slot to, perhaps, the largest TV audience of the year (ok, they didn’t run their ad in every market, but still . . .) and then, over the next three days, experienced a nearly 7000 point drop in the ranking of their web site. That’s some incredible public response. (And what would it look like if they stopped paying for the ‘click farms’? I looked and 14% of their web activity is still coming from India.) —- But I realize that they don’t do it for the public response. They run the ads to impress the whales who are still living in the bubble.

      • Mooser

        I didn’t see the Scientology ads during the Superbala-Bowl (which I might mention, was convincingly won) but I saw one here in the Seattle market last night.
        It was every bit as awful and offensive as it was.

        • Illinoisian

          I didn’t see them either (visiting southern FL).

    • Baby

      Woo HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

      Go JOHNNY GO.. Yeah that Super Bowl Ad just pulled ’em in huh? Broke 50 ,000 Johnny… Just as you wanted.. xo Baby.. Doing the Happy Dance with ya my friend.

  • Eclipse-girl

    Some of us at WWP are doing various experiments with what it takes to get some ads down.

    We are coming to the conclusion that new ads are easier to take down than ads that have been up for a week.
    We also are trying to find out if local flagging is more effective than outside flagging

    If you do not regularly flag, please consider flagging if a city is in your home state.

    If the lists are too long for you concentrate on the NEWEST ads and do them first.

    So we have created various lists for people inside and outside of a state

    Nevada residents please work on this list
    http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/search/bbb?query=%22702+731+1500%22%7C%22702+896+6892%22

    People outside of Nevada please flag the ads on this list
    http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/search/sss?query=%227545+bermuda%22%7C%222761+emerson%22

    Everyone can do the ads on this list
    http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/search/ccc?query=%22702+731+1500%22%7C%22702+896+6892%22

    New York State residents please work on this list
    http://newyork.craigslist.org/search/bbb?query=%22212+828+1825%22%7C%22212+921+1210%22

    People outside of NY state please work on this list
    http://newyork.craigslist.org/search/ccc?query=%22212+828+1825%22%7C%22212+921+1210%22

    Everyone can work on this list
    http://newyork.craigslist.org/search/eee?query=%22212+828+1825%22%7C%22212+921+1210%22

    California Residents please work on these lists
    http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/search/ccc?query=%22714+283+2134%22%7C%22714+544+5491%22
    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/ccc?query=%22408+428+2424%22%7C%22408+656+9276%22
    http://sacramento.craigslist.org/search/eee?query=%22916+519+5287%22%7C%22916+782+1272%22

    People outside of California please work on these lists
    http://losangeles.craigslist.org/search/sss?query=%2221010+devonshire%22%7C%229015+fullbright%22
    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/eee?query=%22408+409+5398%22%7C%22831+426+2146%22
    http://sacramento.craigslist.org/search/ccc?query=%22916+519+5287%22%7C%22916+782+1272%22

    Everyone can work on these lists
    http://losangeles.craigslist.org/search/eee?query=%2221010+devonshire%22%7C%229015+fullbright%22
    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/eee?query=%22408+428+2424%22%7C%22408+656+9276%22
    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/eee?query=%22408+724+8086%22%7C%22408+780+5061%22
    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/sss?query=%22117+easy+st*%22

    TY to everyone who is helping us in this effort.
    We are learning things about effective flagging of these ads.

    • Robert Eckert

      For new flaggers: the least time-consuming way to kill a list of ads is first, go down the list holding Ctrl while clicking each line (or each line in blue, skipping the ones in purple if you have flagged in that city before). This opens each ad in a new browser window. The very last ad you can click without Ctrl so the ad-list window is gone, replaced by an ad window.

      Then use Ctrl+W to close each ad window after you click “flag” or “prohibited” or “spam” (Craigslist is shifting to consistent use of “prohibited” but you may still find one of the others; they all do the same thing). I am superstitious and wait for “prohibited” to change into “thanks for flagging” before I Ctrl+W but I don’t think it really matters (that’s Craigslist acknowledging it received the flag). The advantage of Ctrl+W is that your mouse never needs to move away from where the flagging button is.

      • (Or middle button for Ctrl-click-to-open . Some wheel mouse have the wheel as a middle button. Depends on your operating system etc etc.)

  • valshifter

    I herd LRH said in different lectures “the whole thing is so Idiotic is unbelievable”

    • Suppressive Tomato

      I don’t recall specifics โ€” I’m an SP merchant of chaos who only deals in vague generalities, after all โ€” but, listening to his lectures, I’ve bumped into more than one apparent admission by LRH of the nonsense of what he’s saying, like even he can’t believe he just said that and people didn’t get up and leave. The general consensus seems to be that LRH just did it for the money, or the control, but I think he also did it for amusement and contempt. “Look at these morons,” he thought to himself. “They’ll believe anything I tell them!”

  • Mooser

    “or the realization that one is just oneself in certain auditing actions designed to shift the personโ€™s valence”

    If I don’t vacuum the tops of the drapes and under the bed today my wife will be very disappointed. I did promise to do it.

  • Mooser

    “Having imagined that, and after carrying out a whole bunch of such
    mental tricks, it is a small step to believing that you are some really
    bad-ass thetan not confined by the physical universe”

    “Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world.” – Archimedes

  • Bradley Greenwood

    I regularly engage in self-hypnosis; it is not a fallacy. But I have to WANT to be hypnotized (and try like hell not to be distracted).

    Considering the prices paid by Scientologists, I am not surprised they see these mind exercises as an otherworldly, or mystical, event.

    If I pay a large sum for ANYTHING, I make damn-well sure I utilize it well. I am very sorry for the former Scientologists for the enormous “buyers remorse” they must feel.

  • valshifter

    I always wanted to see thru walls with my ayes closed, has anybody ever been able to do that? seriously!

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      I can’t even see through them with my eyes wide open.

    • Mooser

      I want no part of any powers which will force me to observe the undergarments of women I am not married to. I’m already a terrible leerer, that would put the capper on it.

  • “If you were to try this, it isnโ€™t too hard to imagine that you are out in space somewhere, exterior to the body, and viewing the sun and some location on it. Having imagined that, and after carrying out a whole bunch of such mental tricks, it is a small step to believing that you are some really bad-ass thetan not confined by the physical universe. I believe this is analogous to what happens when one begins to recall past lives in auditing.”

    With this, I disagree. It is a huge step from imagining to believing. People imagine things all the time and don’t believe them. The reason people believe in this stuff is due to mental illness. If it were so easy to believe that you can take over a whole city to command it to provide you with a parking spot, there’d be a lot more Scientologists, but there aren’t.

    • Mooser

      I can’t help being struck by (I really should learn to duck) the similarity to Einstein’s thought experiments which helped solve the problems in relativity.

      • It really bothers me that former Scientologists so easily dismiss how totally insane the ideas in Scientology are. Like, “It’s not that big a leap from imagining what it’s like in space to actually believing that you are possessed by millions of evil space demons.” What the hell? That’s completely effing insane.

        I’d be willing to bet there are very few if not a single person on earth that hadn’t imagined something at some point in time. How many go from imagining being the president, to actually being the president? 44 people in 282 years. How many people in Scientology believe that they are possessed by evil space demons? All of them.

        It’s completely insane and it bothers me that so many of them dismiss it like it’s so simple to believe you’re infested with space demons.

        • DeElizabethan

          Just a note Derek. All my years of being in I never believed I was possessed by evil space demons, since I had no idea, nor did I after finding out about them later on. I believe those that don’t know what’s on the higher OT levels, just don’t know about it, even if they have an inkling, tho they are still hooked into auditing and are manipulated. So I dismiss the “all of them” unless you talking about OT’s or others who have read that stuff? Did you believe that when you were in the SO? Thanks.

          • I’m using hyperbole.

            Everyone who makes it to the OT levels believes that. Every Scientologist believes in the wacky things like “postulates”, “outflow = inflow”, “assists cure illnesses”, “the reactive mind makes you feel bad”, “overts cause you to blow from an area”, “misunderstood words make you sleepy”, “there are implant stations on mars”…

            There’s a whole host of things, when taken out of the context of Scientology are completely irrational. I believed all of those things, but now that I am no longer a Scientologist, I am fully aware of how completely irrational they are and I don’t try to minimize it.

            My underlying point is: don’t try to minimize how irrational Scientology is because that’s how people ended up completely submerged into it in the first place.

            • Robert Eckert

              Not everybody who makes it to the OT levels believes it. Lots of them blow at that point.

            • You’re still focusing on the OT levels…

            • I find it somehow disingenuous to state that the OT materials are the sole reason for a lot of Scientologists to leave. I think most of them leave as a result of various other disagreements or injustices, only to retrospectively acknowledge that maybe some of the teachings are flawed. There’s a lot more crazy leading up to the OT levels than confined in the OT levels themselves.

            • Captain Howdy

              The vast majority of people who tried scientology blew long before Clear, let alone the OT levels.

            • DeElizabethan

              I knew more that left before clear than after, so I agree.

            • Mooser

              It depends on whether a person would rather follow a mirage, or a hallucination. People differ on that.

            • Captain Howdy

              I’d rather follow a hologram of an 18 yr old Liz Taylor.

            • DeElizabethan

              Ah, hyperbole. Is that like superbole? Just kidding. Thank you for explaining it and I do know what you mean now.

            • Mooser

              The superbole is on an old-growth fir tree preserved in Seattle.

            • Mooser

              One thing I’ve learned (and much of it from your honest and open-eyed comments) is that people can experience Scientology, depending on who they are, how they got in, what they have (whale, celeb, skill) to offer in return, in some very very different ways.

        • Derek, I recommend reading The True Believer by Eric Hoffer, When Prophesy Fails, and The Paranoid Style in American Politics by Richard Hoffstadter. I’m old enough to remember the John Birch society, which in it’s own way was as crazy as believing in implanted space aliens.

          The book analyzes and attempts to explain the motives of the various
          types of personalities that give rise to mass movements; why and how
          mass movements start, progress and end; and the similarities between
          them, whether religious, political, radical or reactionary. Hoffer
          argues that even when their stated goals or values differ mass movements
          are interchangeable, that adherents will often flip from one movement
          to another, and that the motivations for mass movements are
          interchangeable. Thus, religious, nationalist and social movements,
          whether radical or reactionary, tend to attract the same type of
          followers, behave in the same way and use the same tactics and
          rhetorical tools. As examples, the book often refers to Communism,
          Fascism, National Socialism, Christianity, Protestantism, and Islam.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_True_Believer

          Overview

          Festinger and his associates read an interesting item in their local
          newspaper headlined “Prophecy from planet Clarion call to city: flee
          that flood.”

          The prophecy came from Dorothy Martin (1900โ€“1992), a Chicago housewife who experimented with automatic writing. (In order to protect her privacy, the study gave her the alias of “Marian Keech” and relocated her group to Michigan.) She had previously been involved with L. Ron Hubbard’s Dianetics movement, and her cult incorporated ideas from what was to become Scientology.[1]

          The group of believers, headed by Keech, had taken strong behavioral
          steps to indicate their degree of commitment to the belief. They had
          left jobs, college, and spouses, and had given away money and
          possessions to prepare for their departure on a flying saucer
          which was to rescue the group of true believers. She claimed to have
          received a message from a fictional planet named Clarion. These messages
          revealed that the world would end in a great flood before dawn on
          December 21, 1954.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Prophecy_Fails

          The paranoid spokesman, sees the fate of conspiracy in apocalyptic
          terms โ€” he traffics in the birth and death of whole worlds, whole
          political orders, whole systems of human values. He is always manning
          the barricades of civilization… he does not see social conflict as
          something to be mediated and compromised, in the manner of the working
          politician. Since what is at stake is always a conflict
          between absolute good and absolute evil, what is necessary is not
          compromise but the will to fight things out to a finish. Since the enemy
          is thought of as being totally evil and totally unappeasable, he must
          be totally eliminated โ€” if not from the world, at least from the theatre
          of operations to which the paranoid directs his attention. This demand
          for total triumph leads to the formulation of hopelessly unrealistic
          goals, and since these goals are not even remotely attainable, failure
          constantly heightens the paranoidโ€™s sense of frustration. Even partial
          success leaves him with the same feeling of powerlessness with which he
          began, and this in turn only strengthens his awareness of the vast and
          terrifying quality of the enemy he opposes.[1]

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paranoid_Style_in_American_Politics

          • Captain Howdy

            My opinion is that the “True Believer” type personality is as much, if not more, the reason why some people end up in cults, than the “mind control” explanation.

            • The art of propaganda lies in understanding the emotional ideas of the great masses and finding, through a psychologically correct form, the way to the attention and thence to the heart of the broad masses. The fact that our bright boys do not understand this merely shows how mentally lazy and conceited they are.

              Adolf Hitler.

            • Captain Howdy

              Anybody remotely interested in cults definitely needs to read Eric Hoffer’s “The True Believer”.

            • 1subgenius

              Will put on my re-read list.

      • I think that problems in relativity (be consistent with all large-scale observations in the physical universe, including those that would be made decades later) are a little more difficult than the problems in $cientology (justify to yourself giving all your money to L Ron Hubbard).

        But I’m no expert.

        I recommend Karl Popper’s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Logic_of_Scientific_Discovery for those who would like to take a peek at real science.

  • phronsie

    The ol’ “scientology is no worse than any other religion” debate has arisen at the below link (posted on FB by Tony regarding Mormonism), and I’ve made my stand, but anyone else want to pitch in? http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/02/05/legal-experts-gobsmacked-after-british-judge-orders-mormon-leader-to-prove-faiths-origins/#comment-1232078547

    • Anonymous

      Awaiting approval…

      • phronsie

        Luckily, I can post under Disqus.

      • Robert Eckert

        You have to log in to Raw Story before your posts go through unmoderated.

    • Suppressive Tomato

      Done

    • Captain Howdy

      You shouldn’t assume everyone making this argument is a secret scilon because it is the view of most atheists, anti-theists.

      My opinion is that all religions, sects and cults are anti-progressive on some level

      That said, like everything else in life it’s a question of degree.

      And of course the good any particular group of magical thinkers does needs to be taken into account also.

      • 1subgenius

        All beliefs/opinions/conclusions are chains (on acquiring further information).
        Its hard enough to know the facts.
        Its actually a “brain problem situation” (TMBG) to draw conclusions, especially premature ones.

        Once you notice this, it will drive you crazy: people who take one fact and make it mean something more. Usually in support of an opinion they already had.

        Its laziness, but quite understandable.

        Thinking is the hardest work of all, that’s why so few of us engage in it.
        A conclusion is where we got tired of thinking.
        We conclude/believe what we expect to.

    • I think you mischaricterized what the commenter was saying. He was saying that Scientology was charged with fraud, so why shouldn’t all religions. Scientology was charged with fraud because they promise measurable results that they cannot deliver. Religious beliefs should not be fraudulent, in my opinion, because that’s thought-policing. It’s crossing a line that I don’t think should ever be crossed. I may disagree with the beliefs of religions, but that’s irrelevant. Where I would draw a clear line is where a religion promises things like Scientology does: Curing all illnesses regardless of their nature or origin.

      • Captain Howdy

        Scientology and Mormonism are both recent enough that they can be demonstrably proven to be frauds constructed for financial and personal gain.

        • I guess, I don’t know enough about LDS.

          Most religions’ beliefs could be labeled fraudulent and surely you can find all kinds of personal gain in all of them. What standard are you holding Scientology and LDS doctrine to that precludes the doctrine of Judeo-Christian religions, Buddhism, and Hinduism? What’s to say that all religions aren’t committing fraud? Is the law going to require all religious texts to repeat the words, “In my opinion.” Throughout? These are questions that cross my mind when I read that article.

          • Captain Howdy

            I was referring to evidence that clearly demonstrates that L Ron Hubbard and Joseph Smith were conmen. Smith was a convicted conman. The Abrahamic religions are obviously too old for this.

            http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith,_Jr.

            http://mormonismdisproved.org/

            • In both cases the accused conman in dead and the religion continues to exist.

            • Captain Howdy

              L Ron Hubbard is dead but that didn’t stop lawyers for Monique from introducing his works as evidence in a court of law.

              There is a paper trail for Joseph Smith leading back to the early 1800’s also.

            • Monique’s case is about harassment, though, not fraud.

            • Kristi Evans

              Joe Smith and guys like Brigham Young were plenty heinous and abusive. BUT, the internet couldn’t expose their hives of slavery to the light of day.

            • 1subgenius

              True.
              Although I don’t know what “hives of slavery” means.
              Information is good.

            • 1subgenius

              What is the point?
              The harassment is to protect the fraud.
              Mormons harass to the point of slaughter.
              Why argue?

            • 1subgenius

              “Smith was a convicted conman.”

              Research would show that his type of con (finding lost relics, and such) was particularly popular at the time.

              So sad that “mistakes” made in the past turn into rules protecting power.
              I think Dave Wakeling said that.

          • Cat Daddy
        • Robert Eckert

          Mormonism doesn’t make claims about healing, which can be shown to be unfounded: France convicted Scientology over the fraudulence of the Purif, not over the falsity of the Xenu story.

          • 1subgenius

            And yet (per my post to Captain Howdy) Mormons have many other beliefs that are easily proven false.

        • 1subgenius

          True that. If you’re going to have beliefs (versus information), at least have beliefs that aren’t easily disproven. That’s just stupid.

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          Mormonism does have the fig leaf of belief in divine revelation and the supernatural. Not that I will rush to defend anybody who uses that, however. Scientology has staked out a unique position: It’s all scientifically proven fact.

      • phronsie

        Well, you may have a good point about my comprehension; I haven’t had much time as before to hang out with you guys and today is just as crazy. But I wanted to take a quick gander at the issue and figured, since I thought his comments were possibly the same old argument, that I should throw down a flag. So, I may have tilted at a windmill, which is not too cool….Ah, well. BTW, I saw your comments at a recent Cracked.com scientology article; they were superb and you made some people think!

        • Meh it’s alright. It easy to misunderstand what he was saying as being in defense of Scientology, if you forget that you’re changing venues. You have to remember what kind of website you’re reading and take the comment in context.

          He wasn’t defending Scientology, instead he was saying we should do away with all religions–which in my opinion (although controversial) is not the right answer either.

        • Thanks for the compliments. I got some, “Thank you.” Notes from the staff too.

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            Link? Would like to see that.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Sometimes I think that life is too short.

      Intellectually lazy atheists make me just as annoyed as intellectually lazy Fundamentalists. And there’s usually no reasoning with them…

      • Robert Eckert

        As an atheist, I agree with you.

        • 1subgenius

          And as someone who’s lazy, I concur.
          (To clarify, I don’t mind working hard, but I abhor unnecessary work.)

      • Captain Howdy

        3-D, you’re being lazy. You’ve used that same exact comment before..lol

      • Captain Howdy

        What is there to be vigorous about? There’s zero proof for the supernatural. End of argument. : )

        • Robert Eckert

          I get annoyed at the type who reflexively deny anything that has anything to do with the Bible, such as the existence of a person named Jesus or ancient kingdoms of Judah and Israel; I half expect them to deny there is any evidence for the existence of Rome.

          • Captain Howdy

            Agreed.

  • Edward Whalley

    Now let’s sing “Fruity OT levels make a man out of a mouse, Fruity OT level’ll bust you out of your blouse!”
    –from the insane commercial in “Serenity”

    • lucille austero

      Upvote Serenity reference!!!!

  • kemist

    The thing I really don’t get about the various excuses made up for why OT levels didn’t work, is that Hubbard himself never demonstrated anything close to OT powerz.

    If it worked, Source himself could at least perform a few OT tricks.

    Why then did people believe him when he “discovered” the reason why it didn’t work for them?

    I don’t know for you, but for me to put any sort of effort into something, I have to at least have a demonstration that it fucking works, especially from the person who’s supposed to tell me how to proceed.

    • Miss Tia

      Didn’t you see his teeth? There’s OT power right there, he could still chew with ’em!

      • kemist

        I knew a guy who was super-duper OT without ever setting foot in the CoS then.

        He could chew peanuts without a single tooth. He also miraculously survived unscathed working on full gas tanks with a blow torch and an eternal cigarette hanging from the corner of his mouth. And nourished himself solely with cans of Coke.

        But by far his most impressive OT talent was the ability to speak whole sentences made up entirely of swear words.

        • Miss Tia

          DEFINITELY an OT!!! ๐Ÿ™‚

    • domitare

      Your point is valid. We know this now because we can look at all the work Ron developed thanks to the power or the internet. The goal has always been OT XV. It would *seem reasonable that those at OT 8 are but half way though in the *hope to eventually be able to be what was promised. Remember that those that went before did not disclose this failings. As an example, Paul Haggins, Ms Remini, Alley, Cruiz, etc. Those that left at the “top” of the bridge have been silenced or contained. This is changing thanks to sites like this and thanks to people like you who demand evidence.

      • Captain Howdy

        Just like with Esmeralda the gypsy medium/fortune teller proclaiming that her powers won’t work if non-believers are present, the same cautions exist within scientology, as well as the rule that demonstrating OT powers to those on a lower gradient is an out-tech high crime.

        Ron knew the tricks on the spiritual bunco trade

        • OrangySky

          Just as in Hans Christian Anderson’s story, only the incompetent and stupid could not see the emperor’s new clothes.

          • Captain Howdy

            That’s a BINGO!

            My favorite analogies for scientology are “The Emperor’s New Clothes” “Invasion of the Body Snatchers”, Esmeralda the Medium, “King of Hearts” even though the lunatics were harmless especially compared to “sane” idiots fighting their stupid war. I could go on and on.

            • 1subgenius

              I met Alan Bates in Stratford, Ontario. The Queen’s Hotel, if I recall.
              Now that I think of it, he reminds me of (an English) Giancarlo Giannini, my favorite actor. Ever.
              Sorry, John Hurt.

            • Captain Howdy

              Michael Caine, Dirk Bogarde, Terence Stamp, John Hurt, Ray Winstone…

              EDIT: Peter Cushing, Edward Fox

            • 1subgenius

              Let’s not go crazy, now.

              But what’s his name?

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-5yn3v3N8A&feature=kp

        • domitare

          Towards the end, Ron was his own best customer judging by what transpired as explained by Jessie Prince about Ron’s last few days and hours.

    • OrangySky

      I do remember Phil Spickler – on one of his YouTube videos – claiming Hubbard made himself invisible to raiding FBI agents. ๐Ÿ˜ฎ Some trick!
      I guess he must have burned up all his OT juice on that on little display, though, since after that, he was just another sick, smelly old man hiding from the law in hotel rooms.

      • 1subgenius

        “…just another sick, smelly old man hiding from the law in hotel rooms…”

        Actually he might have been on to something there.

    • You’re missing the point. Scientologists DO believe it works. That’s what Bruce and Claire have been repeatedly saying throughout these series. That’s what Tony has covered in many other series (like OT Phenomena). They don’t need proof of anything because they think it really works!

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      You mean you won’t take advice from the psychic who is operating out of a shabby room in the front of their house in the worst part of town?

      Oh ye of little faith…

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Yeah, BINGO! Show me a motherfucking clear, right? Even the Shamwow had Vince to show it working. (secret shout-out to WIS, cause I know she’ll see this shamwow reference.)

  • . . .

    • domitare

      Natalia, you are adorable. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • aquaclara

      Kindergarten is free for one year. With Scientology, it’s just $288,000 and it lasts for a billion years!
      What a bargain. Now just sign right here, and here, and here.

    • valshifter

      haaa that is a cute dog!!!!!, not like LRH’s Obscene dog

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      A very cute doggy, but for my generation, there is only ONE dog named Spot, and he belonged to Dick and Jane:

  • Miss Tia

    I’m sooooooo happy to still have internets—-the things that we sometimes take for granted! ๐Ÿ™‚ I sent some more tweets! I gotta stop today though!! Last batch for the day…..

    I shouldn’t have said niblet @scientology had a raging boner for revenge. It’s more like a throbbing pimple. #sorry #FixedIt

    Does the @FBILosAngeles @TheJusticeDept etc do NOTHING about @scientology because they’re learning torture techniques from them?

    I mean, does the US government consult @scientology on how to torture prisoners in the war on terror? Who does torture better than the Co$?

    Lessons in dehumanizing individuals, brutalizing them, exercising total control–those are things @scientology does EVERY DAY!

    So why wouldn’t the US Government wanna learn those ‘skills’ from the ‘masters’ of such atrocious things as @scientology? #WeirdLogic

    There has to be SOME reason for the @FBILosAngeles @TheJusticeDept @IRSnews @FBIWFO @DHSgov to do NOTHING about @scientology! #GROWAPAIR

    Oh if niblet @scientology is practicing saying he takes the 5th for his depo—that doesn’t mean a 5th of scotch! #Drunk

    Why doesn’t niblet @scientology go to @narconon to dry his already leathery ass out? He’d finally have to do some $cienotology!

    Will niblet @scientology bring his BFF @TomCruise along to hold his hand at his depo? People think TC is whack-a-doodle too. #CouchJumper

    • DeElizabethan

      OK Miss Tia, I finally have to ask since I’ must be way behind. What is this “niblet” thing and what does it mean/ stand for? It’s flying over my simple head. Thanks

      • Robert Eckert

        Niblet was the diminutive sidekick of the Jolly Green Giant in old vegetable ads.

        http://greengiant.com/assets/images/os-media-sprout.jpg

        • Miss Tia

          Thank you! You got it!! ๐Ÿ™‚

        • Michael Leonard Tilse

          nibยทlet
          หˆniblit/
          noun
          trademark
          1.
          a small piece of food, in particular a kernel of corn.

          So basically it is referring to DM as a kernel rather than the whole COB.

          • Miss Tia

            yep, as I answered above, it has sort of a dual meaning to me, niblet is a corn reference, since he’s NOT a full ‘cob’ of corn…and then of course teeny sidekick niblet!! ๐Ÿ™‚ i like things with several meanings!

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              What is funny: nibblet

              A very versatile word, nibblet has a variety of meanings. Nibblet can mean piece of shit when referring to a person. It can be used affectionately between friends as a term of endearment. It can also be conveniently used as a verb (i.e. “nibbletize”).

              Joe: Let’s go to the mall

              John: Shut up, you fucking nibblet.

              Sarah: What’s up, you nibblet?

              Amanda: Not too much, how about you?

              Zach: You nibbletizing piece of shit.

              Craig: Fuck you, you nibblet-hole!

              Wife: Love you, nibblet!

              Husband: Don’t nibble too hard today, honey!

              (from the Urban Dictionary)

            • DeElizabethan

              Oh that’s much better! Love this educational blog. Love you nibblets.

            • Miss Tia

              Well obviously he’s the little piece of shit niblet! ๐Ÿ™‚

            • 1subgenius

              That rolls off the tongue almost as easily as “sphincter”.

              A word, which’s usage, I’m hoping becomes more prevalent.

              Any usage of “sphincter niblet” will get bonus points.

              Kudos to Rudyard Kipling (“Do you like Kipling?” he asked. “I don’t know. I’ve never Kipled.”, she replied.), who was a master of tongue tickling.

              “…the banks of the great grey-green greasy Limpopo River….”

              Anyone who has the pleasurable duty of reading a bed time story (do I have to add “usually to a child?”), would be well served to utilize the “Just So Stories” by Kipling.
              Words are fun.
              And incredibly complex, yet efficient, coding for information.

              There will be a quiz.

            • DeElizabethan

              Got it! Thanks guys. However, he is kinda cute, almost too cute. Ha,ha,ha.

          • sugarplumfairy

            Lol..

        • Anandamide

          The statue below is in Blue Earth, MN, and in Le Sueur there is a very large billboard of the Green Giant and Sprout. Ho, ho, ho.

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            You know what the Jolly Green Giant fears the most?

            Nearsighted avocado pickers!

            HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA Ha Ha HA Ha Ha ha ha ha… ha….ha ha… ahhhhh. I slay myself.

      • Miss Tia

        Robert Eckert beat me to it and even included a visual! ๐Ÿ™‚ But his answer is correct, I went from COB to niblet —since that’s also a corn reference, niblet corn AND niblet was the green giant’s side kick—teeny tiny side kick! ๐Ÿ™‚

  • hansje brinker

    Overrun “Spotting Spots”

    (refresh)

    • Mark

      Good grief! It’s Phineas T. Gruntfuttock himself!

  • Truthiwant

    You get up to OTVIII and then what? Of course! OTIX.

    But by then your ears are so completely full of shit, you need to clean them out.

    So, I give you the OTIX remedy kit pre-release offer…

    • BosonStark

      Well, now it appears to be the Super Power and run-around-a-pole rundown that the finest OTVIII thetans can embark on, if they dare. And it’s never too late to re-do Clear, just in case you didn’t get that perfect memory the first runaround.

    • 1subgenius

      Its amazing what you see when you look.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        No joke! I saw both of these brands on the shelf in a store the other day and I almost fainted:

        http://www.hubspeanuts.com/

        http://www.squirrelbrand.com/

        I’d love to send a box of the squirrel brand to Marty as a fun joke. Much tastier than a dildo I would assume.

  • Sejanus

    Scientology Kills.
    It plays imagination games with people minds who are in a vulnerable state..then robs them of their money and walks away counting the bills while the person flops on the floor like a fish trying to breath out of water.
    Diminutive Murderer and friends.
    Lotsa Room for Homicide.

    • Kristi Evans

      Another brilliant set of nicknames. Thanks, Sejanus…

  • 1subgenius

    When they say โ€œ2. Spot a spot in your bodyโ€
    Do they mean a position, or an actual “spot”?
    Just askin’.

    BTW Mormons are getting sued for fraud in England.

    • Baby

      I am getting excited.. All my liver spots are starting to connect and they are giving the appearance of a tan..

      Ohhh likin the new avi sub. .. Mormons.. I have to dig around more about Mormons. I know L Wrong is really interested in them along with Scn.

      I can only be obsessed with one thing at a time..

      • 1subgenius

        “I can only be obsessed with one thing at a time.”

        And, since its me, how could that be wrong?

        • Baby

          hahahahhaa Sub.. Quit it!

      • Kristi Evans

        If you do, read ‘One Nation Under Gods’. That will sufficiently nauseate you. But yes… they are better than Scientology, but some splinter groups aren’t better by much.

        • Mooser

          Don’t forget to read the wonderful biography of Joseph Smith, “No Man Knows My History” by Fawn McKay Brodie.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        I’ve got lots of their “promotional” literature you could have a look at. Maybe I will bring some along to the next hang we all have. But yeah, I know what you mean. There are just not enough hours in the day to keep up with all of the weird stuff out there that pulls at my attention.

        • Baby

          Oh yes.. do that Hubs.. xo

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            I kinda wish I had grabbed more than I did while I had the chance. One was like a Joseph Smith greatest hits, playing card. It listed all of the important and great milestones of his life. It said he was the second most important person ever on the face of the earth after Jesus.

            I really can’t knock the humbleness and hospitality of their members though. Every one I ever met was super nice and cheerful. Maybe in a Stepford Wives kind of way, but seemingly genuinely friendly. Say that fast three times.

            • Baby

              In a Stepford Wives kind of way, huh? Love it..

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Mormons???

      But they’re so… respectable…

      • 1subgenius

        They are snappy dressers.

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          Hmmmmmm?

          (refresh)

          • 1subgenius

            My point exactly!

          • Mooser

            You know, I’m not much of an expert on religious conversion, but I would have picked a girl with a bit more, uh,…definition. She doesn’t make me want to get on the next plane for SLC. Just sayin! Hey, I’m not the one who uses underwear ads to entice new converts, knowhatI’msayin?

            • Mooser

              Do these Garments make me look knock-kneed?

          • Sarah James

            Magic underware.

          • WildaBeast

            The men’s version seems to assume that all male Mormons are hung like porn stars. LOL.

  • I just hate waking up in the morning covered in the blood and gore of invisible murdered space alien fragments, don’t you? Glad to see Scientology is here with the technology needed to scrap all that fucking shit off of me.

  • Scream Nevermore

    I feel….. S U P E R!!!!!!!!

    • sugarplumfairy

      And it only cost you $288,105.50!!!

      • Scream Nevermore

        Worth every penny/cent! Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m off to a cocktail party on Mars!

  • Mark

    I always had my suspicions about Tublard’s bonce-boil; this OT-5 material merely confirms its malign influence (refresh):

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Is this the origin of the name of that tasty nasty dessert– Spotted Dick?

      • Mark

        Ye gods, I sincerely hope not. Spotted Dick is a real winter warmer, especially with custard – one of the few dishes that taste better made in a microwave. (My absolute favourite steamed pud is ‘Sussex Pond Pudding’ which hides a whole lemon steeped in brown sugar and butter at its sinful heart).

        • Kristi Evans

          YUM!!!

          • Mark
            • Mark

              Yum indeed! (refresh):

            • Mooser

              Is the lemon peel candied? That’s an awful lot of lemon zest. I mean, it looks lovely, custard, brown sugar and butter, but how is the peel handled?

            • Mark

              You have to jab the lemon all over with a fork or skewer first to let the juices flow; the steaming & sugar take care of the peel & pith – the lemon should end up so tender that you can eat it with a spoon. Less hardy souls quarter the lemon & pat some of the brown sugar (Muscovado for preference) onto the flesh.

            • Mooser

              Ho-Kay! Sounds, and looks scrumpt-diddly-umptuous as Ned Flanders might say.
              I can almost taste the sauce.

            • Casabeca

              I will put some of my backyard lemons to use with this recipe. Thanks kind sir :).

            • Kristi Evans

              Mark! Thanks for the recipe link… Somehow, I overlooked that earlier when I checked in. I am so making the hell out of this.

        • DeElizabethan

          Available at my local store. Now that you said it is yummy i will try it, thanks.

          • Mark

            It’s a bit like a Dundee cake on steroids.

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            I will pay to be there and see you ask the cashier where is the “spotted dick”.

            • DeElizabethan

              In the English section at publix or target. Hope they don’t run out. Yo, I should ask.
              I’ll wait till you come here and we go do it. Woopie!

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Yes, I’ve seen it and laughed my ass of in that aisle of Publix. But to see YOU ask, would make me pee myself I think. Remind me to tell you about the shaven schnizz story. It’s related to asking odd things in a store.

              I’ve eaten spotted dick in England. Had to order it just because.

  • Tony Ortega

    NEW STORY IS UP!

    • Sir_Real

      OH BOY!!

      • Kristi Evans

        ^^^x100

  • Xique

    The whole ‘create an illusion’ step, and with it in mind, you are to conserve it , hide it, age it, rearrange it and destroy it bit. How about you “forget about it”. Fortunately I never progressed to OT levels. It’s seems like such a sad joke when it’s spelled out so plainly by Bruce and Claire. The absurdity is stunning to me.

  • Eclipse-girl

    this is a test

    • Eclipse-girl

      this is a second test

  • Eclipse-girl

    Some of us at WWP are doing various experiments with what it takes to get some ads down.

    We are coming to the conclusion that new ads are easier to take down than ads that have been up for a week.

    We also are trying to find out if local flagging is more effective than outside flagging

    If you do not regularly flag, please consider flagging if a city is in your home state.

    If the lists are too long for you concentrate on the NEWEST ads and do them first.

    So we have created various lists for people inside and outside of a state,

    Nevada residents please work on this list
    http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/search/bbb?query=%22702+731+1500%22%7C%22702+896+6892%22

    People outside of Nevada please flag the ads on this list
    http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/search/sss?query=%227545+bermuda%22%7C%222761+emerson%22

    Everyone can do the ads on this list
    http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/search/ccc?query=%22702+731+1500%22%7C%22702+896+6892%22

    • Imagica

      I’ve been noticing ones here in Reno, they’re coming from the “mission” we have out here. Mainly “support groups” for depression and marriage problems and courses to “help learn” things, like wannabe Toastmasters.

    • WildaBeast

      Flagged! Whoever does cover art for those books should be lynched. Or possibly hanged, drawn and quartered.

  • mpl

    How are you supposed to spot all these spots, if your eyes are closed the whole time?

  • Once again we see Hubbard plagiarized wantonly to come up with stuff to sell. Obviously, this obsession with spots comes from the Dick and Jane kids reading books that were popular during the 1930s to 1970s. Dick and Jane’s cat was named Spot, then they changed Spot to a dog later on. This confused Hubbard and made him obsessive about Spots. Consider sample lines from the books: “See Dick. See Jane. See Spot. See Spot run.” The series was discontinued after sex change operations began and some crank writer threw in the line “See Jane’s Dick.” That line alone no doubt prompted the sexually confused Hubbard to come up with OT5. This stuff is hard to figure out but you can if you’re diligent enough.

    • Sydjazz

      I wonder if he liked the english pudding spotted dick

  • รถmรถlรถ

    oh these condemned believers lost in cognitions and having lost al the money. poor misguided souls.

  • Sydjazz

    $288,000 for lying on your back and day dreaming! Woah! I just had a cognition. This is the biggest scam in the entire history of the world