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It’s time to wake up our space cooties on Scientology’s New Operating Thetan Level Five!

NEDsClaire Headley and Bruce Hines are taking us on our journey to train as Scientologists. Claire spent years working with Scientology’s “tech,” and was trusted to oversee the auditing of Tom Cruise. Bruce was in Scientology for 31 years and spent about half that time as a senior case supervisor. Go here to see the first part in this series.

This week, Bruce is helping us as we soldier on into the strange environs of New Operating Thetan Level Five. We’re now moving into a new realm — New Era Dianetics for OTs, which is usually shortened to NOTs. We’ll have Bruce explain that in a bit.

But first, let’s take a look what we ran into as we leafed through the materials for New OT 5.

We ran into a checklist of prerequisites, which include having a security clearance and making sure we don’t have a vitamin deficiency.

Once we’re ready, there’s a 29-step checklist that makes up OT 5 itself. Each of them refer to corresponding NOTs procedures. So the first step, for example, is “Indoctrination Step & clearing words,” which refers to NOTs 4 and 27.

Other steps include “Handle BTs who went Clear,” “Handle BTs who went Exterior,” “Handle BTs audited past erasure,” and “Repair BTs run on uncharged items.”

“BTs” stands for “body thetans,” those disembodied alien souls that we thought we’d gotten rid of on OT 3 and then OT 4. But apparently our BTs need further handling because they’ve been going Clear and Exterior on us.

Some additional steps in New OT 5:

Handle BTs/clusters Being Body Parts
Handle BTs On or Around the Body
Generally Spotting and Blowing BTs/clusters
Mass That Kicks in when Pre-OT Looks into Body
BTs with Mis-U words Rundown

And here’s the final step, which is a doozy: “Verify whether Pre-OT has achieved the full EP of NED for OTs as described in NOTs 27, pages 8 & 11. If so Declare. If not, locate the unflat/incomplete Pgm step(s) and handle…DO NOT DECLARE UNTIL PRE-OT HAS THE FULL EP.”

Well, that certainly sounds sophisticated and worth hundreds of dollars an hour, doesn’t it?

BRUCE: For me personally, the subject of NOTs is especially significant.

THE BUNKER: How about explaining NOTs for our readers.

BRUCE: NOTs stands for New Era Dianetics for Operating Thetans. New Era Dianetics (NED) was the incarnation of Dianetics circa 1978. There were versions in the 1950s which kept getting revised in those early days, then 1963, then 1969 (that was called “Standard Dianetics”), then NED. It was discovered after the release of NED that Dianetics should not be run on anyone who is Clear or above. The claim is that on a Clear, a person who does not have their own mental image pictures, running Dianetics restimulates the incidents (pictures) of BTs, and it gets very messy. It can result in illness or body problems or confusion or upsets or whatever. NOTs came about as a way to address these things on people who were OT 3 or above. Except it actually does not use a Dianetics-type technique. It is never simple.

THE BUNKER: OK. So different flavors of Dianetic counseling are required before and after going Clear. We’re with you.

BRUCE: I joined the Sea Org in 1979 in order to be a NOTs auditor, and then I held that post, after the requisite training, until 1987. In the latter part of 1978 and the first part of 1979, I was living in LA working as an electrician and doing my OT levels at the Advanced Organization of Los Angeles (AOLA) as a public Scientologist. In those days in the lobby of AOLA there would be announcements when someone attested to Clear or to an OT level, and the person who had attested would tell their “wins” to the people who happened to be gathered there. There would also be promotional announcements from time to time. One evening I was passing through the lobby when a guy was telling his “wins” from the NOTs auditing he’d gotten at Flag (in Clearwater). The advanced orgs at that time could not yet deliver NOTs auditing. I listened to that guy and was impressed by the amazing OT things he was saying he’d experienced as a result of his NOTs auditing. That guy happened to be Larry Wollersheim.

NOTs was developed in September 1978. It came out of auditing that David Mayo did on Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard during a severe illness. Most people don’t realize how much Mayo contributed to NOTs. He was so utterly vilified to Scientologists later on. For over a decade prior to that, many people had been focused on doing the OT levels, especially the vaunted OT 3. The highest one could go then was what was called “Full OT 7.” That was a much different OT 7 than what exists today. And oddly it was done between OT 3 and OT 3 Expanded. OT 8 was not available until the late 1980s. The result was that there were a lot of people who had “gone up the Bridge” and had not achieved OT abilities. They had kind of dead-ended. With the release of NOTs they all had something new that they could do. There was also an explanation why they were still mere mortals, or so they thought. This meant that there was a huge demand for this new service and the Church of Scientology had a cash cow. I believe during that period was the first time the Flag Service Organization (which runs the spiritual mecca in Clearwater, Florida) took in a million dollars in gross income in a single week.

Bruce Hines

Bruce Hines

It also meant that there was heavy recruitment into the Sea Org for potential NOTs auditors. There were special recruiting projects at Flag, in LA, at Saint Hill, and in Copenhagen to get people to join to become NOTs auditors. The FSO and all of the three advanced orgs that existed at the time had sold millions and millions of dollars of this service without having the means to deliver. I was one of many who fell for their pitch. Andre Taboyoyan was on the AOLA recruitment mission. I joined the Sea Org at AOLA and was sent to Flag immediately after I had done an abbreviated “EPF” (Estates Project Force, the first thing one does upon joining the Sea Org). I was put onto full-time training right away (which violated their own policy — only proven staff members should get the “privilege” of full-time training). Jesse Prince was one of my course supervisors at Flag. I somehow made it through that training, amazingly, as it was intense and stressful. For months and months, the training was for 13 or 14 hours a day, no days off, with short breaks for lunch and dinner. One is constantly being scrutinized, with lots of criticism and correction, to make sure one makes the grade (in their estimation).

When one has jumped through various hoops, and has “security clearance,” one is allowed to study the confidential NOTs materials. Some of these materials are the same ones that a person doing New OT 5 these days reads in the introductory steps of their auditing sessions. The subject of BTs and clusters is revisited, with a vengeance. One learns that there are way, way more BTs than had been known about before NOTs. In the OT 3 materials Hubbard said that the number of BTs a person might have to deal with is in the hundreds; on NOTs, it is some huge yet unspecified number. These BTs are supposedly dormant and have to be woken up. This is accomplished by receiving NOTs from a specially trained auditor. New OT 5 is not a solo level.

The instructions for the current New OT 5 are in technical bulletins that were put together in 1991 by Sue Koon (Dan Koon’s former wife), who was in “the Hole” at some point according to something I read online. These were revisions of the original 1978 NOTs bulletins that were compiled by David Mayo. The level changed in 1991 from how it was prior to that. Few people know that actions were added in to New OT 5 in 1991 that were never mentioned by Hubbard, who had died five years earlier. This is a big deal for Scientologists, who think that Ron devised all the tech.

THE BUNKER: Jeff Hawkins has made the point that changes in the “tech” made after Hubbard’s death in 1986 were justified by claiming that Hubbard had left notes that were being followed or some other Hubbard-based justification.

BRUCE: The changes are justified by something Hubbard wrote or said (his recorded words). Or on things that someone else wrote and was personally approved by Hubbard when it was submitted to him. But sometimes it was interpretations of what he said. These interpretations were a bit of a stretch on occasion. Like Hubbard said something about staff meetings, and Cathy Rinder (remember her on that Anderson Cooper 360 show?) wrote a whole policy letter called “Staff Meeting” that laid out a whole procedure for these meetings that Hubbard never described. She had been ordered to do so and got it approved through David Miscavige. There are things that are in the current version of NOTs (New OT 5) that Hubbard never wrote or said or approved.

A key part of the theory of this auditing is that the BTs and clusters are not only dormant (unresponsive, like in a coma), but they are out of valence, which I wrote about in relation to the original OT 4. To wake them up and get them to blow, telepathically, silently, the pre-OT has to ask them what they are, and then who they are. The idea is that these beings are stuck in a false beingness (the valence). They might be thinking that they are a body part, or some inanimate object, or a quality, or anything at all. So the pre-OT asks, “What are you?” and keeps asking that until the auditor sees the “correct” E-meter reaction. Supposedly, when the pre-OT then acknowledges the BT or cluster that this is the false identity, a valence shift happens. Then the next question, “Who are you?” is asked repeatedly until the BT or cluster says, “I’m me.” Generally, so goes the theory, once the BT or cluster being audited realizes he or she or it (Hubbard never said anything about the gender of these beings) is just himself (or herself or itself), then they blow. The are freed up and might even go Clear at that point.

THE BUNKER: Yeah, there’s nothing insane about that at all.

BRUCE: The pre-OT being audited on New OT 5 goes through these steps over and over and over again. It is called “Valence Tech.” New OT 5 consists of locating BTs and clusters in various ways, and then running Valence Tech on them. To locate them, the pre-OT has to be able to perceive masses. The BTs and clusters have actual mass, so it is written, and since they are sort of dead, the only way to see them (not with the eyes) is to spot their mass. For example, the auditor might tell the pre-OT, “Locate a mass in the body.” Then, once they have done that, the auditor finds out whether that mass is a BT or a cluster, and then runs Valence Tech. There are several actions that deal with BTs that were messed up in the pre-OT’s earlier auditing. So supposedly there can be BTs who went Clear and are hung up because this was not acknowledged, or they went exterior and could not leave because times when they interiorized (incidents on their own time track) got restimulated, or there could have been other kinds of errors that occurred on a particular BT.

The whole thing is pretty complicated.

THE BUNKER: Complicated? We’re actually thinking of another word.

BRUCE: Well, I think it is all nonsense. But within that world, once one has bought some of the ideas, there is a kind of internal logic to it.

There are a lot of individual actions that make up this level. And there are a lot of contingencies and phenomena that the auditor has to be aware of and possibly act on.

I, and the people I audited on NOTs, had no trouble accepting that there was a whole new layer of BTs and clusters to be “handled,” or getting answers from them, or feeling like they blew.

Originally, there was a bulletin that said that one of the end phenomena of audited NOTs was that the body should become translucent to the thetan perception of the pre-OT. Of course, this is totally subjective. At some point in about 1980, solo NOTs came out and the pre-OT could shift over to solo auditing once they were deemed to be far enough along in their audited NOTs. Then, there was no more effort to get a translucent body. In about 1982, audited NOTs became New OT 5, and Solo NOTs became New OT 7.

THE BUNKER: We’re feeling pretty translucent at this point. So Bruce, how many “intensives” are we going to need to purchase to get through all of this waking up of BTs and making them blow?

BRUCE: When I was still involved, New OT 5 would typically take 4 to 6 intensives (50 to 75 hours). There might have been some “fast” pre-OTs who completed it in 37.5 hours.

THE BUNKER: According to a 2007 price list, 50 hours of intensives for New OT 5 runs $27,300.

COST THIS WEEK: $27,300

COST SO FAR: $315,405.50

 
——————–

News and notes

Yesterday, filmmaker Louis Theroux mentioned on Twitter that he’s working on a documentary about Scientology…

 
Actually, this is a project long in coming that we’ve known about for more than a year, and it’s exciting to see it kicking into a new gear.

In fact, there are currently at least six television or feature film projects in production or being planned that we know of, but since most of them have reached out to the Bunker in some way, we’re going to remain vague about them until they give us permission to begin promoting them. (We’ll just say that one of them may be showing up as early as next month.)

 
There’s been some interest in a story coming out of Germany about an unnamed professional football player’s contract with the team Bayern Munich which included a clause saying that the contract could be severed if the player had anything to do with Scientology. We asked our man in Europe, Jonny Jacobsen, what was being said in Paris about this latest development.

So far as I can see this has been a slow burn: Der Spiegel appear to have run this more than a week ago in its Sunday edition (February 2). It must have been picked up by a news agency yesterday because it’s only now beginning to appear on a few French websites.

No trace of it in l’Equipe, the sports daily: the closest I got in a word-search of their site was “sciatologie,” which I promise you is nothing more sinister than a back injury.

The Adidas statement about supporting diversity and tolerance and somehow suggesting that Scientology not be compatible with such values — the very idea! — very much reflects the German view of Scientology. But while they say it’s a standard clause in their contracts, I can’t help wondering if it extends beyond the Bundesliga.

I can’t see that flying in Major League Soccer — is that what you call it over there? I’ll make inquiries at Adidas France to see if they’ve tried the same clause.

Thanks, Jonny. We hope you get some word back.

UPDATE: Adidas confirms that the clause only exists for its German contracts.

 
On a sadder note, we heard from Colin Henderson last night, who told us that Suzan Holten had died after battling cancer. Suzan’s daughter, Hillary, died in April 2012 at Narconon Arrowhead, the flagship facility of Scientology’s drug rehab network, which is in Oklahoma. Hillary’s parents, Suzan and Matthew, are among several families suing the Narconon center over a series of deaths there. Our heartfelt condolences go out to Matthew Holten, and we hope he can still find some justice in the future.

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on February 11, 2014 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS (We read Scientology’s founding text) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25

UP THE BRIDGE (Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39

GETTING OUR ETHICS IN (Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14

SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING (Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41

PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer

 

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  • VickiStubing

    Thinking of you, Matthew Holten. So sorry for your loss.

  • Missionary Kid

    Hubbard was good at making the maze one had to go through more complicated than ever.
    Several things that underlie this: If you haven’t got super powers, there’s something wrong with you.
    It’s always your fault.
    The illusion is that other people have achieved the level you’re trying to get to. After all, they said they did.
    Added to the maze are smoke and mirrors, to keep a person confused.

    • And the best cons are those where the sucker walks away thinking he/she got the better part of the deal. Hubbard was a brilliant criminal.

  • Observer

    My condolences to Matthew Holten. So much loss in such a short time … I’m so sorry.

    NarCONon needs to go away. And Scientology has the gall to call psychiatry the “industry of death”!

    • Peter

      I just had the passing thought that scios constant attacks on the psych industry is their way of shouting, “No, no, don’t look at US!! Look at THEM!!!

      • Sanddancer

        Always attack, never defend. It’s the MO of Scientology regarding any investigation. Throw recooked lines about how psychology/psychiatry cause huge problems, and if that doesn’t work, start doing loud investigations that border on slander. But never, ever cede to discuss the facts regarding their own crimes.

        • Peter

          I think that’s called “doing it the dumb way”.

          • Observer

            “Doing it the dumb way” a.k.a. “doing it L Ron Hubbard’s way.”

  • D.Y.G.

    While I applaud Adidas for refusing to endorse athletes involved in Scientology where possible, I recognize that they need to look to their own house first when it comes to human rights violations.

  • Baby

    Matthew .. I can’t imagine losing both your daughter Hillary and your wife Suzan.

    We will continue the fight.

    Thank you Colin for informing Tony.

  • 3feetback-of-COS

    Irish media picking up the Louis Theroux documentary item.

    http://www.rte.ie/ten/news/2014/0211/503593-louis-theroux-making-scientology-documentary/

    • 3feetback-of-COS

      and now my BTs want to go back to bed!

    • Shirley Eugeste

      Lol… and amusingly they think his use of the word “Church” warrants a “sic.” Heh heh heh.

  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

    Thanks again for the explanation of what had been a complete mystery to me.

    I am sure that the complexity of it stops people from thinking that it is pure nonsense, but it is. Even Isaac Newton wrote a million words on alchemy.

    My condolences to Suzan Holten’s family.

  • Deimos

    Louis Theroux has a genius for really taking the piss whilst being totally nice and inoffensive, he just lets loonies talk freely and it does the trick.
    Can’t wait to see him rip the scilons apart, in the nicest possible way of course.

    • Observer

      Panicked comm instructing Scientologists not to speak with him under any circumstances in 3 … 2 … 1 … away!!

    • D.Y.G.

      His documentary on Westboro Baptist Church is definitely worth watching. I really admire him for just making it through his time with them. The rest of us would be happy tossing those fuckers off a cliff.

  • ze moo

    NarCONon continues to try to repair the brand.

    http://www.virtual-strategy.com/2014/02/11/evidence-based-treatment-outcome-tracking-system-used-and-developed-narconon-arrowhead

    The accompanying graphic claims a success rate of up to 87%, the lowest score was achieved in 1976 of 68% success. The ‘article’ clearly states that the numbers for the chart were culled from info gathered from 2004 to 2007, yet the chart starts in 1972 and goes to 2013.

    I call bullshit. ‘Evidence Based Treatment Outcome’? While the ‘article’ is clearly labeled ‘prweb’ it is not labeled ‘sponsored content’. I call Double Bullshit on this one. NO mention of the NarCONon Arrowhead deaths or cancelling of licenses needed to operate a drug rehab. This is the ‘flagship’ of the NarCONon empire?

    Are any real rehab professionals or regulators taken in by this bullshit?

    I find the OT5 material just a continuation of the madness. BTs so numerous and so difficult to find and destroy that you will be paying for auditing forever. Miscaviges scotch fund must be very well funded by now.

    I am going to take a walk to cool off, its 5 degrees this morning so it won’t take long. NarCOnon really burns me up.

    • RMycroft

      They’re going to keep using that “paper” to claim anything they want to, and why not–they paid good money for it!

      https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/narconon-buys-themselves-a-peer-reviewed-paper-rebutal-early-and-often.114147/

    • OrangySky

      This is total bullshit. No rehab has that kind of long-term success rate. Maybe out the door a month later success rate, but not a year later. It’s fucking addiction you’re dealing with. And addiction is a real disease. People overcome it in various ways, but yelling at ashtrays and sitting in saunas are not foremost among them.

    • And I don’t rent cars!

      Have you searched prweb dot com for “scientology”? It’s one of the Co$’s favorite, paid advertorial services to use. Since Dec 2012, IIRC, they’ve been putting out press releases on nearly a daily basis. Remember the debacle after the “church” paid to have a press release about DM and the growth of the Idle Morques placed in the Atlantic Magazine? That was issued by PRWeb. Since that time, they have been focusing on advertising the “good works” of their vulture ministers and their other “human rights” front groups. I haven’t checked this past month or so. (It makes me wonder if they “don’t own” that online company, as well.)

      Yeah, it all makes me very hot under the hood, too! Hope you’ve cooled off and managed to enjoy your walk.

      P.S. I used the word “bullshit” in a derogatory way in referencing the content of the Co$ press releases. But then I glanced up at your avatar, gulped, and deleted. And now, I’m apologizing. After all, there is good bullshit and bad bullshit. Right?

  • Krew13
  • Jonathan Cummings

    This sounds like a whole new level of crazy and we are up to over 300 grand! Like they say, Scientology is not for the poor. I guess once you are totally broke and have borrowed cash from everyone you know, you either have to join staff or Sea Org, or quit, right?

    • cdub

      That’s the plan.

    • scnethics

      You just have to “make it go right”. Seriously, most people reach a point on the Bridge where they can’t afford to do anything else. Some people (I think) use that as an excuse not to do more and sort of blend into the woodwork. Others, remained completely obsessed with this goal. They go in for multi-level marketing scams, get-rich-quick schemes, and generally look for ANY way they can to make lots of money, including screwing other people out of theirs (this is not the norm, but there are plenty of unethical people doing just that to fellow scientologists and “wogs” alike). It’s sad. I can’t tell you how many people have called me over the years wanting me to join the new and exciting MLM they’ve joined, or wanting to become my FSM (Field Staff Member – means they would personally pressure me to go up the Bridge and receive a 10% commission from the church for everything I did), or wanting me to buy a new-fangled water filter (or whatever).

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Too true.

  • Racnad

    The bottom line of Scientology is that 90 percent of the Tech is composed of “reasons” why the first 10 percent of the tech (developed before 1952) doesn’t work and new attempts to make it work. During the 1960s they started assigning numbers to everyone who supposedly went Clear and by the late 1970s there were several thousand Clears and OTs, probably divided between those who deluded themselves that they had OT powers, those who knew they didn’t have OT powers but enjoyed the mystic and attention from those who believed they did, and those waiting for the next piece of Tech that would finally deliver them. According to Dianetic theory, a Clear no longer has a reactive mind, so NOTs (New Era Dianetics for Opertating Thetans – acronyms within and acronym) was invented with the idea that if it’s not YOUR engrams that are holding you back from your potential, it’s the engrams of OTHER beings that are attached to your body. There is no limit to how long that can go – it’s like examining every grain of sand at the beach.

    • villagedianne

      How does this square with the idea that there are no victims and if bad things happen you “pulled it in”? Now you are a victim of your BT’s? Did you pull them in?

      • scnethics

        In the thousands of trillions of years we’ve been floating around, we’ve all managed to do a lot of bad things, and as a result are pulling in everything bad that happens to us, including our body thetans. The body thetans specifically are probably your punishment to yourself for creating and unleashing that super-virus to the poor residents of planet Pookoh (shame on you!!!).

    • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

      As I recall, people “attest” to Clear. Sort of like with one hand over the heart and the other on a copy of Dianetics. It would be as easy as can be to check for total recall, check for 20/20 vision, check for IQ raised by one point per hour, check to see if they can do computation as in chess much, much faster than a normal (I can’t site chapter and verse on that last one but it is there). They could take away the status if the person had a cold, asthma, or any of the other things a clear is not supposed to get.

      They don’t do that because no one would ever be labelled clear. They have to keep the ball rolling.

  • BosonStark

    To the outsider, it seems like Scientology must have thrived not only on secrecy but on being such unbelievable nonsense. How much longer can it get away pulling that off?

    • cdub

      As a con game, Scientology only needed to support Hubbard through the second half of his life. To that extent it succeeded. But as an ongoing enterprise it’s having major troubles not even 30 years past his demise.

      Why did members from the 50’s through the 80’s fall for this nonsense? Early on Hubbard tightly controlled the presentation of Scientology, members were unaware of the magnitude of problems they witnessed, and ex-members were afraid to speak out.

      Why has it been falling apart in the last decade? You’d think the job of presenting, or marketing, Scientology would have fallen to Miscavige but instead, now, it’s the Internet that presents Scientology to the world. Members and newbies learn the end result of Scientology in hours instead of years and they, in turn, just say no thanks. Ex-members now have a voice and they use it to warn others of the scam.

      • Eclipse-girl

        I think you are correct. Hubbard wanted to money to live on. He didn’t care about the long term existence of scientology or about anyone else. He was a narcissist.

        • Panopea Abrupta

          I think he was a sloppy and lazy thinker, and a second or third rate intellect.
          His writing reflects that, sci-fi and other.

          His lying self-promotion and his abuse of many of his followers’ neediness and genuine desire for spiritual growth was a rape of truth and spirit, the very things he pretended to offer.

          He was in love with himself, a classically malignant narcissist, and thought he could charm, manipulate and/or bully anyone and everyone.
          He had no problem contradicting himself, often in 2 consecutive sentences.
          I think he thought he might take the con to levels he never actually achieved – his puerile attempts to “take over” Morocco and Rhodesia come to mind.
          The long-term success of Scientology as an extension of his fame (infamy would be more accurate) was surely a goal for him.
          He was just a lousy leader.

          And his dream was a nightmare.

          I take some consolation from the fact that his heart attacked him and that his last years were a confusion of drugged lonely paranoia.

          • MaxSpaceman

            Hubblard was a narcissist who did want longevity, as he stated: “I have high hopes of smashing my name into history so violently that it will take a legendary form even if all books are destroyed.
            A letter to his wife Polly (October 1938)

            • Eclipse-girl

              The longevity will be due to his infamy

          • Eclipse-girl

            I am surprised when indies defend him. I know that is there right and as long as they do not commit crimes they can believe what ever they choose to.

            Opinion is one thing, facts are another. Ron was criminal. Ron avoided paying taxes on ill gotten gain. Ron borrowed from people and NEVER paid them back. Ron was willing to have others pa for his misdeeds. Ron kidnapped his own child only to hurt her mother. Ron had that child cared for by others.

            • OrangySky

              Agreed EG. I strive to support the Indies in their break from the criminal oppressive “church,” and who am I to say if something ‘worked’ or ‘didn’t work’ for someone, subjectively? But personally, I can’t imagine anyone who looks at the true story of LRH could ever buy his junk. That’s why the Indies have to believe that Russell Miller had an agenda, and that Ron really was a war hero, or whatever they have to hold on to in order to not see the well-documented (by multiple sources!) truth about who the man really was – a possibly schizophrenic, paranoid, malignant narcissist who had no love or respect for anyone or anything other than himself.

            • Eclipse-girl

              That was why I had to research the ribbons Ron was wearing in the few decent photos I have seen of Ron while in uniform.

              Ron is NOT a war hero, in that he never acted above and beyond the call of duty. He earned 4 ribbons that were granted to many who served. He never earned any battle stars. A few of his superiors thought very poorly of Ron.

              I did a write up on it and will post it again, if asked. It is also on OCMB because I did use that thread, and the photos that were included to base my opinions on.

            • Panopea Abrupta

              The investment of years and money, the strength of belief systems and the deliberate non-cultivation of critical thinking make it hard for people to leave, truly leave.
              Cults make people dumb and beaten.
              In Scientology, unfortunately the beating can be very real.

              When all the people in your life are fellow believers and the outside world is filled with those beneath your dignity, “raw meat”, it’s easy to see why people stick with a glorified Wheatstone bridge as a substitute for a real practice and a real path.

              Intellectual and spiritual curiosity are anathema to mind-control.
              These are not much cultivated – otherwise, explain how McDonalds, Fox News, Sarah Palin have large numbers of acolytes.
              Pablum for the soul, even if it is pablum, beats growing up.

              My nickel.

            • Eclipse-girl

              “The investment of years and money, the strength of belief systems and the deliberate non-cultivation of critical thinking make it hard for people to leave, truly leave.
              Cults make people dumb and beaten.”

              This is Why.

          • Hey now! Battlefield Earth was a brilliant — BRILLIANT! — novel. That took real genius to write. (snicker)

            • Cat Daddy

              The biggest mistake they made was making the women look ugly as hell

            • Panopea Abrupta

              Jack Parsons has a crater on the moon named after him.
              Hubbard should get one too – on the dark side.

            • Cat Daddy
            • Panopea Abrupta

              I like the fact that MacSlappy can do his Xmas shopping so easily.
              Probably buys ’em by the case for all his friends.

            • Shirley Eugeste

              I don’t think he’d need a very big case.

            • Shirley Eugeste

              Is that a butt plug or a hood ornament?

        • MaxSpaceman

          Indeed, Hubblard was a narcissist who did want longevity, as he stated: “I have high hopes of smashing my name into history so violently that it will take a legendary form even if all books are destroyed. A letter to his wife Polly (October 1938)

          • Cat Daddy

            he wanted to live to be 200 and in good health, well preserved for his age.

            didn’t happen

          • Shirley Eugeste

            Exactly the kind of thing normal, well-adjusted people say all the time. My old yearbooks are full of dozens of variations of the same sentiment — not expressed so eloquently, of course, but, hey, we were just kids.

        • The conman absconded with something over $600 million dollars when he went in to hiding. One would think that a couple of million would have been enough for any normal druggie conman, but not Hubbard, he took all he could carry off.

          • Eclipse-girl

            To the best of my (poor) knowledge, no one knows where it went, either.

            Sure Ron spent fast and furious.
            Davey and Pat gambled .

            But $600 mil is a lot of money to fritter away.

      • BosonStark

        So, do you think there is any problem with Super Power promising things that sound too specific, like enhancing certain perceptions? That they might go on the Internet to read more about that?

        Or, do you think clams will have no problem generalizing it to feeling their space expand and feeling more able? I can understand trying to feel translucent better than I can someone thinking they are getting super smell from the smell station.

        I have to keep reminding myself, these are people who will believe pretty much anything, like that they e-meter could date a past life incident millions of years ago.

        Also, the Internet has become a place where people can not only assess the validity of something, but also its value. Given that clams pay something like $27,000 to do things with their BT clusters on a single level, won’t more people be considering the value of some of these things? Wouldn’t it make more sense to spend a few hundred on a meditation or yoga class or something?

        • scnethics

          I’m pretty sure every scientologist who does Super Power is going to think they have improved senses, perhaps even really experiencing an improvement via placebo effect. The advertisement for L11 (which along with L10 and L12 represent HUGE income for Flag) says it results in “thetan exterior with full perceptics”, so people buy that thinking they are going to be able to exit their body and see, hear, etc. remotely. Even though I’m sure this never happens, everyone who does the L’s just raves about them.

          And yoga does NOT handle those pesky BTs and clusters. I mean, you can spend eternity trapped in a meat body and stuck to this rock if you want, but scientologists are going FREE (if they have enough money).

          • scientologists are going FREE (if they have enough money)

            -heh- That bears repeating. 🙂

        • kemist

          I don’t even know why people would want enhanced senses.

          I get them every time I have a migraine. It is not fun when light, touch and sound hurt and the slightest smell triggers vomitting.

          If they actually got enhanced senses as promised, they’d have to live the rest of their lives in a dark, silent room eating the most tasteless food they could find.

          • The problem with enhanced senses is literally TMI. Unless the brains’ processing ability is similarly altered, one simply becomes a living digital camera, unable to do anything but record.

            The correct ability one strives for is enhanced perception, which comes from practicing mindfulness. Nobody got rich promoting mindfulness unless it’s part of a grab-bag of tricks like est or other New Age-influenced philosophies.

            “Scientology–A profitable grab-bag of spiritual tricks.”

            Add that to your list, MK.

          • Many autistic people are hyper-aware of what’s going on around them, that is one reason why they turn inward and isolate themselves. Nobody sane would want such problems.

            Also if you look at theistic cultists, they think there are “after lives” where they “get to” live forever. That is also a filthy, horrible curse to inflict upon someone, being forced to live forever.

      • Great White Clam

        Excellent points.

        “Members and newbies learn the end result of Scientology in hours instead of years and they,…”

        One google search is all it takes! Seconds, maybe on the outside, minutes! Of course, I already know about the lies, but it only takes a SINGLE google search to reveal the stinking underwear of the churtsh of $cientology.

      • To be fair, the Christanic cult is also slowly dying off, the last decade has seen great improvements in the number of people who are atheists around the world. It’s not just believers in Scientology’s obvious frauds, world-wide in actual religions we’re seeing people throw off their gullibility.

      • cdub

        It’s not easy to think about the depth of Hubbard’s scam. I suppose we all feel a little betrayed … and ashamed. Hubbard just wrote and audio-recorded so darn much. Some of it people found useful too.
        As to Super Power and all its variations with the sense-o-rama devices they’ve cooked up, I think they’re lame. I’d love to know how much it cost to develop and market and how much money they actually make off it. As a successful enterprise, which Scientology is not, that’s all that matters.
        Can someone find the end result of their latest and greatest quackery on the Internet? Probably not because they just invented it a few years ago and no one has pirated it out to the Internet yet. But us insiders have all studied the thousands of bulletins Hubbard wrote and believe me the end result is always something like I JUST WENT EXTERIOR or a realization that, as a being, I (control) (created) (have power over) _________________ [fill in the blank; whatever the procedure is called]. You might be thinking the end result is something provable, like bending a fork with your mind, but Scientology isn’t like that. It’s never something provable. Instead it’s always “I just realized …” blah blah blah.
        Sometimes however people are curious that just maybe Hubbard and Scientology stumbled onto the big enchilada of all spiritual and mystic secrets and perhaps some of us contributors to this blog will spell it all out, like a “Scientology for Dummies” book. So let’s summarize: Body thetans. Mocked it all up. Past lives. Rehabilitation project force, or RPF, the prison system for slackers. Space aliens sending surplus, unwanted souls to Earth. Child labor. Private counseling records used to publicly humiliate. Unethical sales techniques. Bullying, abuse and harassment. Forced abortions. The fair game policy that allows ex-members to be attacked. Obedience, the stare, disconnection, zealotry, and endlessly shifting grades of advancement like erasure of bad and painful memories, improved communication skills, problem resolution.
        Oh I’m sorry, this isn’t what people are looking for? They wanted the secrets of the universe? That must be down the street. Sorry. Try the Rosicrucians. Or maybe Landmark. How about the Masonic Lodge or better still, try typing it into Google, “secrets of the universe”. Because the highest level of Scientology, as Tony’s blog shows, is just chasing Body Thetans.
        By the way, my personal opinion about Body Thetans, is that the past life theory has a big flaw since it can’t account for the world’s population increasing as it has so dramatically. So Hubbard killed two birds with one stone by answering that problem with Body Thetans and then filling the uppermost levels of Scientology with a never ending game of chasing them away. Since here it was 25 years and no one yet had been able to exhibit the superduper powers Hubbard had been bragging about all this time.
        Well that’s my opinion anyway.
        And regarding Christianity, as one of my responders does, please everyone always remember that the zealot, be he any stripe, color, or smell, NEVER CONSIDERS the phrase “to be fair” as the responder states. “Playing fair” is for suckers. It’s a come on. In one of my professions, they call it FUD, for “fear, uncertainty, and doubt”. So the guy can’t win an argument, then throw some FUD instead and watch the squirrels stew. We’re the squirrels, by the way.

    • There is always a certain percentage of any populace that will believe something, it is why State lotterys work, it’s why we have Creationists, it’s why we have Nigerian Princess scams and no end of pyramid frauds like Amway, Shacklee, Mixigo, all the rest. There are enough people in any group of people who will hand their money over to a fraud such that all frauds get some suckers, such that it may be financially beneficial to commit the frauds.

  • Eclipse-girl

    My deepest condolences to Matthew Holten and his extended family.

  • Great White Clam

    THE BUNKER: Yeah, there’s nothing insane about that at all.

    I heartily agree.

  • Ivan Mapother

    What happens to all the shed Body Thetans during the OT5 process? Are they free to glom onto other pre-clears and OTs? If I was a newly minted clear and picked up some OT5’s old space cooties, I’d be real dissapointed.

    • RMycroft

      Remember that scene in Ghostbusters when dickless shuts down the power grid?

    • From all external appearances, they seem to seek out and attach themselves to Kirstie Alley.

  • Snippy_X

    Today is The Day We Fight Back. Narconon Reviews has a great article that explains the HOW and WHY.

    http://narcononreviews.net/narconon/the-day-we-fight-back/

    • aquaclara

      The Day We Fight Back….excellent! Read and act if you want to add your name to those trying to help. Thanks, Snippy!

  • RMycroft

    On which level do you have to wake up BTs that slept through their alarm?

    • It reminds me of the Cheech And Chong skit:

      Now get your clothes on and get ready for school
      I ain’t going to school!
      Why aren’t you going to school?!
      I godda ear ache.
      An ear ache?! I’ll give you an ear ache! THWACK! Ow! Ow! SMACK! Ow! Ow!
      Okay! Okay!

      First ya got to get their attention.

  • aquaclara

    I am very sorry to hear about the death of Suzan Holten. Sending prayers to Matthew, and for all of her family and friends, for the loss of both your wife and your daughter.

    • joan nieman

      Much love to the Holten family.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      My condolences to the entire Holten family and their friends.

  • L Mignacca

    I’m wondering if those BT’s could be easily “cast off in the name of Jesus” by a typical preacher….probly just have to leave a few bucks in the offering plate….

    • “My name is Legion.” It used to be, yeah, casting out the demons. Utter lunacy. The human brain is broken.

      • L Mignacca

        the anonymous legion of anonymous

  • Panopea Abrupta

    Dianetics and Scientology: exorcising First Amendment rights since 1950

  • Krew13

    I like Louis. He’s very sweet and I fear for him making this documentary. He’s a decent person and I don’t want him to suffer at the hands of this despicable bunch of sociopaths.

    • Shirley Eugeste

      Surely he’ll go into it knowing full well that he’ll be yelled at and belittled and that if he asks a question a Scientologist doesn’t want to answer, they’ll squirt him with ink. But, unlike, say, Anderson Cooper or Matt Lauer, he won’t be contractually obligated to be demure.

  • Peter Robinson

    I would like to hear from Bruce or another ex how they squared the fact that they had been told they were clear of body thetans after OT3, but then when on to accept there were more that needed clearing later? Bruce says that when in there seems to be a logic to all this, and of course, since people do stay in and stick with it, there must be some way that they justify or ignore the contradictions, but it is very difficult to understand how.

    The idea that new bits can be added in based on claims that Hubbard said, or wrote or agreed to something sounds like the hadiths in islam i.e wide open to the sort of abuse, interpretation and chicanery that we hear about in this post and elswehere.

    • scnethics

      It really isn’t hard to believe once you believe in body thetans. When you thought you had no more body thetans after OT III, you actually just had removed the low-hanging fruit – body thetans that were awake, not whacked out from too many drugs, not PTS, not experiencing bypassed charge due to being audited beyond the state of Clear, etc. These tougher body thetans require new and better techniques to detect and handle.

      If you’ve completed OT III (and IV), and you still believe in the tech, it’s exciting to know there is more to handle because you want your Super Powerz (and also, you want to be free from all the problems of life that everyone has).

      • Peter Robinson

        Thanks for that!

      • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

        Agreed.

        And Hubbard, if he says sorry folks, I got more “body thetans than anyone thought”, then that means us less capable mental explorers are just not fronting up to the whole big extra load that us lesser folks also have! Hubbard being so much better than us in confronting all of earth’s truly deepest most difficult mental problems.

        and important to me, was reading in Wright’s final chapter, final pages, Hubbard’s admission(s) that he failed. And Hubbard admitting he still had a body thetan or two, bugging him!

        I knew, from years of experience, reading carefully what he wrote, that if the “body thetan” removal lineup needing increasing like adding the extra exorcism levels (OT 4, 5, 6 and 7), there were Hubbard orders to DO MORE exorcism,, that these extra body thetans to be found and exorcised, was all valid work. Sealing this was not a Hubbard con, was his admission to Sarge his pal at Creston Ranch near the end of his life, when he admitted he still had himself, body thetans to exorcise! He was genuine in his delusional belief in “more body thetans”.

        • Cat Daddy

          To imagine a Body thetan is making use of the person’own fantasie, clever. It alsoo follows the technique “Ïmagine your problem sitting in that chair”

    • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

      One way, even today, I could justify it, based on Hubbard’s views, is the long range, zillions of years, years.

      One can always think in physical billions of years, multiple universes end on end, in time, and truly, two contemporary great thinkers, in my opinion, Dennett and Pinker, both have comments that dualism, the idea that the soul is separate from the body, allows for “logical” craziness, basically. Past lives can thus be explained, and even body thetans (souls) which each have their minds, and all the complications of thought, thought lingering lifetime to the next, influencing one, and thus thought from nearby floating amnesia tranced “body thetans” leaking their trauma ideas, leaking their implanted false memories, into our minds.

      If you really go out on the limb, intellectually, and give credence the plastic belief ability that each of us has, if you buy into the belief in the soul and the soul’s supposed ability to retain thoughts lifetime to lifetime, influencing one in later lifetimes mostly unknowingly, then everything that Hubbard’s aiming for, is supposedly helping us uncover those hidden thoughts that held supposedly power over us.

      It’s a big imagine (invent) the thoughts from past lives and from Body Thetans, which influence us, and eliminate those thoughts (meaning the engrams, the trauma basically).

      Anyways, needless to say, we don’t teach this in grades 1 to 12 in US schools,

      • Panopea Abrupta

        Dualism is the starting point for all this craziness.
        I agree completely, Chuck.

        • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

          I’m not a big defender of religion, but Scientology/Hubbard have piggy backed on some of religion’s and philosophy’s illogic. That is what drew me, the Hubbard claim he’d prove (never did though) he could lead people to soul activity and proof. No OTs though, no OT phenomena and Hubbard didn’t ever do a single supernatural thing his whole life. All word play that’s trapped another new crop of hopers. Placebo delusion at best.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    And you used the word “Infested” for yesterdays post, Tony?

    Surely it belongs in today’s offering?

  • Ms. B. Haven

    I didn’t ever go ‘clear’ so I was never exposed to the OT materials when I was ‘in’. I had a friend who was OT3 in the late 70s though. I really looked up to him. He was down to earth, funny and didn’t fit the mould of a typical hard core scientologist even though he was on staff. He was more of a working class type and the reason that I liked him as a scientologist was that he modeled the idea that you didn’t have to be a smooth talking, scamming, sleaze-ball, rip-off artist to move ‘up the bridge’. An everyday, working class joe could do it. Just before the NOTs materials were released, one of his children was killed in a car accident. It was tragic and he was devastated. At the time, the ‘tech’ solution was to run dianetics to try to erase the loss and it clearly wasn’t working. He told me this and and also said that he had written the old man (Hubbard) and he had written back telling him to hang in there because there was something cooking on the back burner (NOTs). As soon as the NOTs materials were released my friend dove in to get this overwhelming loss handled. I’m sure that he felt better after whatever he did, but as far as I could tell, he never did get over that loss. And who would? Unfortunately, he nearly bankrupted himself trying to eliminate this pain in his life. Last I heard his wife wanted to join the SO, so his world was collapsing rapidly. I hope he got out with something intact. He was a good guy. I was impressed with his response to driver in the accident that killed his child. He went to court in her defense so she wouldn’t have to do any jail time. In the end, he still had a crushing death to live with that no amount of anything will ever ‘erase’. A scientologist would disagree with this, but we have seen time and again the stories that surface in the Bunker of scientologists who have ‘handled’ these losses. It is, as far as I can tell, just extreme disassociation. As my friend said at one point, “there are just some things that won’t ever make your needle float”. Save your money, save your dignity, save your integrity, save your life and get out while you can. Life outside scientology is FAR better than on the inside.

    • Panopea Abrupta

      Thank you for this – life hurts so badly sometimes and no con can make it right.
      It’s the price we pay for love.

    • aquaclara

      So true….there are real life things and family things and and painful things that no amount of meter time could possibly hope to handle. It’s a shame that this kind of fraud still persists. And, as you noted so well, to the point of “extreme disassociation.”

      • Captain Howdy

        Whoever said “time heals all wounds” never lived a life to begin with.

        “Time wounds all heels”- John Lennon

    • OrangySky

      I got a big life lesson out of your comment, Mrs. B. Haven. There are some things in life that are so painful, we may get through them, but we never truly get “over” them. And that’s how it is supposed to be. That’s what makes us human, the kind of life experience and pain that shape and change us. Your friend, bless him, seems like he was struggling to use Scientology like a drug, to be able to escape the kind of pain we’re not SUPPOSED to totally get over.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Another harmful and unhealthy aspect of scientology processes is emotional shutoff. It gets to the point where you can’t cry except when you’re in a scientology session…that you paid for.

    • scottishinlondon
    • Saint

      I knew immediately who you were talking about in this post and wanted to thank you for caring for him and showing sensitivity. He is still in and has a much broader view of the world than most long timers. Thank you again. Your post really touched my heart.

      • Ms. B. Haven

        If indeed we are talking about the same fellow, he truly is a gentleman and genuine good guy. Too bad there aren’t more like him. I am assuming that you probably want to remain anonymous, as I do at this point, but I would love to be in touch with someone on the fringes of the org/mission in question here. I have been gone a long time and have not stayed in touch with folks there at all. Send me an obvious clue as to where you are located and perhaps we can strike up a back channel conversation. Your screen name is pointing in the right direction.

        PS Welcome to the Bunker!

        • Saint

          I am not there any more, but you could say I have access to the fringe there. All clues are obvious, if you’ve lived there. Jello? Fry sauce? July 24?

          • Ms. B. Haven

            Excellent clues, except for the fry sauce (ketchup/mayo?). Have to say that is a new one on me!

            If you would like to be in touch, try me at mbhaavin at geeee male dot com

            If not, I hope to ‘see’ you around the Bunker in the future. I post here sporadically if I feel I can contribute to the topic at hand or the general conversation. Unless buried under a load of work I try to at least skim through the posts unless the comments get too overwhelming to sift thru. I also post at John P. Capitalist’s blog http://www.johnpcapitalist.com/john-p/ even though there hasn’t been too much activity there as of late. I suspect that John has been consumed by an unrelenting workload and has not had time to devote to blogging of the fringes of the internet.

            • Saint

              Did you mean the double aa in your email address?

            • Ms. B. Haven

              Double a is correct.

  • media_lush

    whenever I hear “clusters of body thetans” I always imagine those cartoon germs in toilet bleach adverts

    http://youtu.be/uNRruSwKSzU

  • aquaclara

    Amidst this nonsensical and humorous discussion of more BTs, I caught that reference above to “something I read online.” It took me back to the list of who’s in the Hole. I had forgotten just how many names appeared on this list-it’s painful to read, and with each name, I keep hoping they have found their way out. It’s so sad to realize that this unwarranted imprisonment for so many is all they may have in front of them.

    Maybe it’s time to kick that list back to the forefront again.

    Thanks, Bruce and Tony.

  • . . .

  • BH, oh, yeah, Sue was definitely in the Hole for quite some time. In fact Mariette and she slept on the floor for some weeks in one of the small offices, Guillaume’s office, I think it was. Anyone who had been productive at the base sooner or later wound up in the Hole.

  • Marc Headley

    It’s been a few months since the release of Super Power and it appears the SP’s are as powerful as ever. More and more media are willing to not only do stories on Scientology, but pay people to fly all over the world to interview ex-members and find out what is going on. And while the media are flying all over the world, the scientologists still have to use a plane if they want to fly anywhere.

    The main problem that Scientology has now is convincing current members to stay and getting as much money out of them before they leave. The new buildings and the TVs Ads are both things that they are using to convince old members that they are getting new members. This is back-firing big time and shining a light on scientology and making a joke of them.

    When scientologists are ashamed to be associated with scientology, the Kool-aid is starting to wear off.

    Scientology is spending millions and millions trying to hold on to whatever moneys they had. The lawsuits are adding up again. The expenses are adding up. They are hemorrhaging at rate that is more than their interest rates are making them.

    Back in the 1980’s there is a story about how Dave Miscavige lost 30 million of LRH’s money investing is some Oklahoma Oil wells. It was a huge flap and many have said it was how ASI started making the special Battlefield Earth limited edition stuff. This was Dave’s way of getting back the 30 million that he lost BEFORE LRH found out about it. They never stopped making stuff for scilons to buy and every once in awhile Dave comes up with a new gimmick to bilk the scilons for whatever cash they have.

    His E-Meter bombed and they have sold a few hundred at best. Super Power bombed and meanwhile they are freaking out about being infiltrated at Flag on a full time basis. Ideal orgs are bombing everywhere and proving to be a giant drain on their accounts worldwide. New buildings sit empty, old buildings sit empty, undone building sit empty while none of them are making any money.

    Back in the 1980’s right after Dave lost the 30 million on Oklahoma oil wells, these shipwreck hunter guys came to get scientology to invest in this bottom of the sea treasure expedition. Coming off a huge loss, Dave Miscavige instructed his money people that they were crazy and not to invest a single penny. A few years later the shipwreck guys found the ship they were looking for and 21 tons of gold. This haunts David Miscavige to this day. Scientology would have had billions in the 1980’s had he not screwed up and lost the 30 millions. Lyman Spurlock & Pete Blecha were the money guys. When Dave tells the story, they turned away the shipwreck guys. When Pete & Lyman tell the story, they wanted to give these guys the money and Dave freaked out on them big time. Either way, Scientology passed up its biggest pay day ever when they passed on this one.

    David Miscavige has been gambling away scientology’ millions ever since trying to make it uber rich. Hopefully he blows what’s left on Legal and PR this year.

    BTW here’s a book about the shipwreck guys. Pretty sure they talk about going to scientology in the book. http://www.amazon.com/Ship-Gold-Deep-Blue-Sea/dp/B004H8GM9Y

    • OrangySky

      “…meanwhile they are freaking out about being infiltrated at Flag on a full time basis.”

      Wow, Marc…any more details about that? Sounds delish.

      • Marc Headley

        I am sure we will hear about it here eventually. Tony has buckets underneath just about every scientology leak there is.

        • Observer

          There has never been a better time to be an SP!

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Hahahahah. Just spit out my last cup of coffee.

    • Observer

      This is music to my ears, especially the shipwreck story. Where were your OT powerz, Davey? Such a stupid thetan, you couldn’t even tell which investment opportunity would fail and which would succeed! What a ridiculous little man you are, letting the wogs get rich while you piss away $30 million of Source’s hard-stolen cash. Hahahaha!

      • joan nieman

        Thanks Marc! More delicious tidbits to savor!

      • Shirley Eugeste

        What with one thing and another, Oklahoma just hasn’t been good to COB.

    • media_lush

      COB’ postulating powers must have been switched off that day, lulz.

    • Ruby

      “When scientologists are ashamed to be associated with scientology, the Kool-aid is starting to wear off.”

      This is right on.

    • NOLAGirl

      And here ladies & gents is my reason for thinking the IRS & FBI are just sitting back and watching all this. This massive ship is full speed ahead into a giant glacier. Why bring down a “religion” when you can let it implode onto itself?

      • joan nieman

        NolaGirl, I think you’ve got it!

        • NOLAGirl

          Thank you Joan. Mind you, I believe they should go & kick the doors in right now but I’m also not naive enough to think it works that way. For them, I believe, this is the easiest way to handle it. Once it implodes enough, they can move in & lock Dave up for whichever crimes are exposed in the demolition.

      • Mooser

        “Why bring down a “religion” when you can let it implode onto itself?”

        Oh, I don’t know. The State (whichever one you choose) could very easily decide that its residents, especially minors, are entitled to a certain protections. You know, the kind of protections we assume will be there when we walk into a restaurant, hotel, doctor’s office or day care or, yes, even a church.

        • NOLAGirl

          They certainly could. And it’s one of my deepest hopes that they will, but at this point Co$ has pretty much been allowed to run free & commit whatever offenses they choose. So to keep my temper and outrage under control, I choose to believe that this is what is happening at this moment. ; )

          • OrangySky

            Exactly. They are waiting for the hard evidence to be basically handed to them on a silver platter. That’s what these court cases are going to do. Davey can file all the anti-SLAPP and appeals and other delaying motions he wants, but all these tricks are accomplishing now are allowing the plaintiffs to submit more and more evidence into the permanent public record. That evidence is building up and it’s all going to be called up someday by the Fed when it’s ready to act. But until then, it’s all on the rest of us.

            • cs sarabia

              Did the FBI decide not to raid Gold Base because of the possible bad PR involved with bushwhacking a “religion” or because it didn’t have probable cause? Either way, so much more evidence is coming out in these trials and the PR momentum is building to the point that most people, save for the most extreme elements, wouldn’t bat an eye. I hope the G men and women bring cameras to show the youngsters being pulled from their duties and escorted to buses. Then cut to the tape of them relishing the first good meal they’ve had in ages.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      I remember rumors about the shipwreck treasure chest. There were so many investment scams floating through the halls back then. Can’t remember who atm but there was a big push on silver investments going on I believe around the same time. I’ve often thought Miscavige’s real estate spree was due to him losing a fantastic bundle like so many other dupes on the global real estate scam. No way did he not fall for that one! So now like every good sociopath he has to get his revenge which naturally translated to making all his customers buy him a vast portfolio of buildings free and clear and even renovate and furnish them for him.

      I saw the OT Committee notes Mike Rinder posted recently that for me was the last chuckle of proof I needed that scientology is but a corpse, long ago having kicked the bucket. Same families I think all of us recognize whether from the 60’s to the present, a half a century. I see those stumbling out from under the ruins, still smoldering from the long slow burn, and I pity their shock of coming out into the real world again. It always makes me flash back to that seen in “Close Encounters” when the 1940’s pilots ramble down the ramp from the mother ship, dazed and foggy.

      • joan nieman

        Hmm. Perhaps all these clusters of negative beings are from the Fall of Babylon? I am surprised that Ron hadn’t used this. Of course, that would be too recent for him. He goes back to crustaceans. I suppose he thought the more fantastical the story, the more believable. Most of us have studied a bit about salt water, crustaceans and the beginnings of life form. Hubbard grabbed this and proudly announced that every one was a clam in their past lives ( or something of this nature). I suppose he just scribbled incoherent thoughts down and when he was bored, pulled a few ideas from paper and proclaimed it to be truth. Who knows where that warped mind would go, but, he was able to con a great number of people.

        • Barbara Angel

          Or scribbled this rubbish down when he was high?

          • Troy MacGyver

            Or when his young son was,”High.” Remember, Hubbard had writer’s block so he got his son(Nib’s) loaded up on drugs and he came up w his great work”History of man.” Father of the Year!

      • Mooser

        “There were so many investment scams floating through the halls back then.”

        Okay, so would I be too precipitous in concluding that Scientology’s big accomplishment is in a method to select and gather the pathologically credulous. But once you’ve got the sheep gathered the big problem has always been how to make sure you (Scientology) are the only one fleecing them!

        Funny, I was just reading the other day in the “Celebrity Center and Human Rights” blog his estimation that there are layers upon layers of entertainment-industry scams going on there, many only minimally, if at all related to Scientology.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Scientologists share a common challenge: How do you make all this money And spend all your time on the bridge? Every aspect of Hubbard’s detailed scamology was easy and quick. Get rich easy and quick, get well easy and quick, get educated easy and quick, get solutions to anything easy and quick. Yes, Scientology World has long been like a dream resort for the criminally inclined. Scientologists are easy and quick to bite.

          • Barbara Angel

            Good plan to appeal to those seeking a short cut to getting rich quickly. LRH realised that if he wanted this, then a lot of others would too. So he set out to ‘get rich quickly’ and hook others in the process. What the scammed didn’t realise is that LRH had reserved one and only *ONE* place at the top of the Christmas tree and that was for himself. Others were used to lay the moneeeeeeeee at his feet, while he sat on the top of the tree laughing at them.

    • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

      Marc,

      I worked at ASI from 1992 -1995, and did the local project to proofread ALL of Hubbard’s writings to ASI, including the Oil Well writings.

      Old Hubbard ordered that mistake.

      As we all know, if Hubbard made the mistake, it had to be blamed on those who executed the final orders, Jim Isaacson and Rich Tinklenberg, all the finance people bit the dust, Pete Blecha, Lyman, but the order for oil, gems and gold investments, traced to Hubbard.

      Hubbard didn’t know what he was doing, thus no one else under his orders could out dodge his bad orders and behavior.

      Actually the layer of executing “Commodore’s Messengers” to go do the required scapegoating, is about the saddest realization I’ve come to Hubbard’s operating basis.

      Commodore’s Scapegoaters, really is what they were. Follow Hubbard’s orders or else! And when they followed the orders, and the orders went bust, due to Hubbard’s bad advice, the the Commodore’s Scapegoaters (Messengers) conveniently blamed the staff, and Hubbard loaded abusive comments to boot on them, declaring about every single major top level follower, in the end, a suppressive person and enemy of Scientology.

      Good old Ron!

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Are these writings available somewhere? I’d love to see them. Were these shown to field regges or any of the whales as a secret special nudge to get investment scams going? There were always so many scientology investment schemes ongoing. I was wondered if they were encouraged or motivated by eyes only docs like the one you mentioned.

        • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

          We need an INCOMM defector, someone with access to all the computer copies of ALL of Hubbard’s orders, to methodically leak them, but that is likely illegal, and likely they would have to come around to releasing Hubbard’s orders.

          CST site staffers, someone like Bert Troussell who is the all time “nerd” of all the Hubbard mnauscripts, to defect and tell where ALL of Hubbard’s writings are stashed, or better if Shelly Miscavige would defect and given time to answer the questions everyone has about everything, once she gets her head on straight, but so many conditions, what we want comes out piecemeal, at least it’s coming out! Thanks to the interest and this blog and the other ongoing great comments and blogs by other ex members.

      • Shirley Eugeste

        Executing messengers? Were they metaphorically executed once they executed their duties? Sounds utterly hellish. How did sane Scientologists find any sort of way to make it seem reasonable? “If Ron then Good?” Seems like everything that followed would just be chaos.

      • J. Swift

        Chuck, it is quite something to consider that Hubbard risked prison, and the ruination of his Church, by laundering money. To make it matters more inept, however, Hubbard then used his laundered money to make incredibly bad investments. Crime truly does not pay.

        Hubbard’s financial shenanigans reminds me of televangelist/conman Pat Robertson and his “Operation Blessing” scam. From Wiki:

        “Robertson has also been accused of using his tax-exempt, nonprofit organization, Operation Blessing, as a front for his own financial gain, and then using his influence in the Republican Party to cover his tracks. After making emotional pleas in 1994 on The 700 Club for cash donations to Operation Blessing to support airlifts of refugees from Rwanda to Zaire, a reporter from The Virginian-Pilot stated that Operation Blessing’s planes were transporting diamond-mining equipment for the Robertson-owned African Development Corporation, a venture Robertson had established in cooperation with Zaire’s dictator, Mobutu Sese Seko, whom Robertson had befriended earlier in 1993.

        “According to Operation Blessing documents, Robertson personally owned the planes used for
        Operation Blessing airlifts. A documentary exploring the Operation Blessing controversies, entitled Mission Congo, premiered at the 2013 Toronto International Film Festival.

        “Robertson continues to state that Operation Blessing was largely responsible for providing aid to Rwanda following the 1994 genocide, even after an official investigation into Operation Blessing described it as a “fraudulent and deceptive” operation that provided almost no aid. According to The Guardian, all Operation Blessing volunteers did was recite Bible passages at dying refugees. Robertson was accused of taking credit for work that was actually done by Médecins Sans Frontières….”

        • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

          If one or more of Scientology’s lawyers write their memoirs for posthumous leaking in Russia after they die, for book printing, and lay out how to undo Scientology, a real “Swift” from the immoral legal paid people who’ve profited Hubbard’s millions duped out of Scientology followers, then that would be a good legal win someday.

          I urge all legal minds defending Scientology, before they die, write their legal expert opinions, and add them to Scientology category on Wikileaks!

          Some legal minds with a conscious ought right out how to legally go after this operation.

          • Shirley Eugeste

            “…how to undo Scientology…” I like the way you put that. Makes me think of the Gordion Knot, which never really was untied, exactly, Alexander chopped it in half and it unraveled. It’s hard to look at Scientology, even the relatively user-friendly outer layers, and NOT think that the thing has been intentionally made as complicated and tangled as possible. It will be very interesting to see how it unravels, whether there’s actually any chopping involved, if the guilty are punished and the innocent set free.

            Nature, reliably, abhors a vacuum… she’s a bit of a pain in the ass that way. If Scientology ever is undone, what then? Hopefully any lost souls spiritually or socially undone by the loss of Scientology will discover a benign alternative.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordian_Knot

            • Barbara Angel

              True to form; ‘nature abhors a vacuum’…..History has shown us that we will never be short of an Evil Despot i.e. Idi Amin, Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin etc. etc. etc. etc…….. But now the world has the ***INTERNET*** and the job Vacancy Role for Despots may remain empty. Well, that’s my deepest wish x 1,000

            • Shirley Eugeste

              Hear hear. I hope people leaving Scientology learn that anyone who starts out by restricting your access to information about the group they want you to join, does not have your best interest at heart. Do some research and ALWAYS consider the source!

        • Shirley Eugeste

          Holy crap. (No pun intended.) I had no idea. I was for a period of time rather fascinated by The 700 Club, just because it was so jaw-droppingly awful. I was particularly appalled by the testimonials from true believers who had gone ahead and written that check to Pat, even though they were broke, unemployed, couldn’t pay the rent or buy food. And whaddaya know… the Lord blessed them with $$$$! Then there were the lame shall walk/blind shall see segments… someone somewhere is being cured right this second, no seriously, trust us… and it’s all made possible by your donations.

          http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/09/07/doc-mission-congo-alleges-pat-robertson-exploited-post-genocide-rwandans-for-diamonds.html

        • RCPR

          This story was first reported by The Guardian newspaper in the
          UK, who merely repeated the allegations made in the film. Once it was brought
          to their attention that their story was wrong, and after their own
          investigation, The Guardian published an apology to Operation Blessing and made
          a substantial donation for relief efforts…”Operation Blessing – An
          Apology: In an article entitled “Mission Congo: how Pat Robertson raised
          millions on the back of a non-existent aid project” we claimed that Pat
          Robertson ran an almost non-existent aid effort in Zaire, now the Democratic
          Republic of Congo. Operation Blessing actually sent six medical relief teams to
          Zaire, between July and December 1994, and arranged for 66,000lb of medicines
          and supplies to arrive in Goma on an aircraft it chartered from Amsterdam. In
          addition, the article referred to a report by the Virginia Office of Consumer
          Affairs (OCA) without making clear that there was a further report by the
          Attorney General’s Office (AGO) which found no evidence of wrongdoing by
          Operation Blessing or Pat Robertson and no evidence of intent to defraud.
          Operation Blessing has asked us to make clear that the report was signed off by
          four individuals at the AGO, none of whom received any donation from Pat
          Robertson or Operation Blessing. The article claimed a school and farm set up
          by Operation Blessing in Dumi had failed. We have been informed that the school
          is thriving and the farm remains operational to this day. We are happy to
          clarify the position and apologise to Operation Blessing. We have agreed to
          make a contribution to Operation Blessing to be used in its relief efforts for
          victims of the typhoon in the Philippines.” http://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2013/dec/12/corrections-and-clarifications

      • Cat Daddy
      • Marc Headley

        Wow. That’s fascinating Chuck. I realized that my version of events mainly came from Dave Miscavige or people that were around during that time and they may have gotten parts from Dave as well. So, they had to probably had to get the money back to “not make LRH wrong” or some such shit.

        What a fuckfest.

        But let’s not blame anything bad on LRH. It was a perfectly well oiled con by the time Davey took over. If Davey would not have screwed it up, we could be all living the high life just like LRH wrote about.

        I remember in the 1990’s when Dave ordered all the Gold investments scuttled because it dipped down to below $400. What’s it at now? $1200

        In terms of any of these docs leaking. They guy that was about to leak EVERYTHING from INCOMM had copied all juice to a single DVD. This guy was the Snowden of Scientology. He was locked up at INCOMM for at least a year while they water boarded, I mean, sec checked him

        I will tell you this. One of my next 2 books is coming along and I am really milking this sort of stuff for it. I’ve only told a handful of folks about it and they all LOVE it. Hopefully they would tell me if it sucked though…

        • Lady Squash

          So while Hubbard was saying to Scientologists that he wished Scientology could be free, and giving the sad tale about how expensive it was to start a new religion and grow it–all the while he had made millions upon millions that he could invest willy nilly. Win or lose, it was false. Wow!

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          I can hardly wait for your new book, Marc!

        • Tory Christman

          Agreed, Marc not to blame e/t bad on LRH. HOWEVER….do you honestly think you all could be “living the high life just like LRH wrote about?” He couldn’t…so why do you think any of you could, “Davey” screwing up, or not? Also, look how *great* your life is now. Would you change that for anything? 🙂
          Really, in truth $cientology is designed for one purpose and one purpose only: $$$. ALL the rest is window dressing. People THINKING life would be good, how could it be when *really* it’s just one gigantic CON?
          Can’t wait to read your next book…I loved your first one! To any lurkers IF you have not read BLOWNFORGOOD…GET IT! It’s amazingly educational AND funny at the same time. Love to ALL 🙂 Tory/Magoo

        • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

          You’re so right about good old Dave, funny that it’s not all LRH’s fault, LOL. (I never was on his lines, I never was in a position to call him by his first name.)

          I remember Dave cheating at volleyball, imagine it, him grabbing the net and pulling it down, at the same moment he stretched his short body to spike it! CMO CW used to have “Exercise Times” at the same lunch time slot as whatever unit I was in, Flag Bureaux staff at that moment, and I think Ronnie Jnr, Bill Dendiu and Dave were on the CMO CW side of the volley ball net. (I once rotated into the front line position directly across the volley ball net from the 15 or 16 year old or so Dave, and if you didn’t watch him too closely, he’d give the net tug technique a try before a spike attempt.)

          The Eric Snowden, my generation it was Daniel Ellsberg, who did the high principled leaking of the Pentagon Papers, and I told this INCOMM ex staffer that he could have been like Daniel Ellsberg (I told him his back in 2004 or 2005 though).

          He wishes to be in touch with Mike Rinder, but he still may not go pubic, but I’m pretty sure he’d like to talk to Mike.

        • aquaclara

          TWO! Yay. Bring it on…..

          I just re-bought BFG from kindle to hardcover, simply because it’s a great read, and I have family to share this with.

          Thanks. Can’t wait for the next one.

    • Ms. B. Haven

      You are wrong on this one Mr. Headly. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

      There are reports circulating on the fringes of the internet that the Ideal Org in Bulawayo http://possiblyhelpfuladvice.com/?p=16372 is, in fact, thriving. By all accounts, stats are straight up and vertical (no pun intended). The public is flooding into the Org in droves and the local authorities are unable to do anything about it. Bodies in the Shop are at an all time high (no pun intended). I’m sure that RTC will be firing off a mission to Bulawayo to investigate the successful actions there so that they can be duplicated in other Orgs. It will be no time at all before this dirt clod of a planet will see widespread clearing that we have all been hoping for since???

      • Mooser

        I am working on “Carry Me Back to Old Bulawayo” right now. It’s heart-rendering.

      • cs sarabia

        It’s no coincidence that the Bulawayo (thank you for my geography lesson of the day, Ms. B) Ideal Org is thriving given that David Miscavige and Robert Mugabe are kindred dictatorial spirits. They plunder their people, send the money to overseas bank accts., are responsible for the loss of human life, frighten underlings, order that atrocious acts be meted out to imaginary enemies (but real people), dress in fine suits and partake of expensive food and libations as their people starve. What have I missed? Oh, yeah — they’ve both overseen the unraveling of their respective fiefdoms.

      • Barbara Angel

        Uh Oh proof of inferior Internet coverage in Bulawayo then.

        • cs sarabia

          I’ts available only during certain phases of the moon.

          • Barbara Angel

            Maybe the orange faced Oompa loompa has invested in a Major Jamming action and the internet in Bulawayo is unavailable? Scary thought, but something doesn’t add up. Why only One Org, out of them all is *Allegedly* expanding? More lies probably complete with a Huge Graph of False stats. You may now stand and applaud for the False graph and False stats, if you don’t stand and applaud its the RPF for You…….. So on your feet NOW!

      • Marc Headley

        Yeah – okay. If you say so.
        Just like they are cause over Matter, Energy, Space and Time, but not Facebook & Twitter?

        Hearsay “Jedi” & then Hearsay “scientology” and tell me which one has more search results.
        Based on this alone we have a better chance of all becoming Jedi’s and defeating the Empire/Sith/Clones than clearing the planet.

        Hell, Bieber has a better chance of taking over and he might not even have any hair on his balls yet.

      • Barbara Angel

        No offence intended Ms Haven, but do we know if this is true or just more ‘false’ propaganda? Remember how all the ideal orgs are meant to be overflowing and Co$ is the fastest growing ‘religion’, allegedly proved by charts full of false stats. I find it hard to believe that one single org out of all of them is actually expanding. Probably just another load of *desperate* BS direct from the orange faced Oompa-loompa.

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        Thanks Mrs. B. That story offers some real lulz. The $cilon spokesperson admits that sex workers and drug addicts have been squatting in the empty building FOR SEVEN YEARS while the church is “arranging a permit to renovate”. And, in spite of their OT powers, they can’t figure out how to evict these folks.

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      Oof. The value of 21 metric tons of gold in December 1989: $307,835,640. Today: $954,253,440.

    • HA. That’s epic. I wonder if there’s any way to find out what Scientology has money invested in today? I’m sure that Miscavige is smart enough to know that money which sits in a trunk underneath his bed declines in value almost daily.

      • Marc Headley

        Dave’s Investment List for 2014:
        Microsoft Windows 8
        Blackberry
        MySpace
        American Airlines
        JC Penny
        Volvo
        WNBA

        • Funnybroad

          And Hasbro?

        • Wow! All those things are skyrocketing.

    • c_the_g

      So DM is basically a bumbling Bond villain. The only differences are that he’s got a Philly accent instead of a British or Russian one, and the only women who would want to be seen with him are aging actresses and a mysterious femme fatale named ‘Lou’.

      • Cat Daddy
      • cs sarabia

        Wouldn’t it be a scream if the next or a near future Bond villain is based on Miscavige? He has so many parody-ready characteristics. Someone should suggest this to Bond screen writing team. And everyone in Hollywood would get it.

        • Barbara Angel

          Well from all the ideas they could take from this site, Mr Tony should immediately place a Copyright to stop any plagiarism form occurring. lol

          • cs sarabia

            Mr. Ortega really would put a crimp in their style given that, as Observer has said, Tony’s got a pail under every Scieno leak! And I suspect that many of those leaks can probably translate into super-parody (iable) forms once they make it out to us.

      • Marc Headley

        Turdfinger.

        • grundoon

          Doctor Noingness.

    • woodrose

      Marc Headley in the Bunker! Cool. Always interesting comments.

      ‘Blown for Good’ is on my Kindle (Merry Christmas to me) and I’ll be starting on it as soon as I finish L. Wright’s book. Looking forward to it.

    • ElderKing

      Honestly, not funding these treasure hunters seems like a sound decision. Of all the things DM could be criticized for this shouldn’t be one. Hindsight being 20/20 this turned out to be a big missed opportunity, but come on. Some guys come by asking for millions of dollars to look for gold at the bottom of the ocean? I’d say no thanks too. The odds were they weren’t going to find anything. It’s like buying a lottery ticket. Sure there is a slightly higher than zero percent chance I could win a million dollars, but it’s almost guaranteed I’ll lose a $1. I’d rather keep the dollar! Interesting story/what if none the less.

    • J. Swift

      If Hubbard had incorporated Scientology as a for-profit business he could have legally enjoyed the huge sums of money he earned by selling his technology. OTOH, he could not have engaged in the egregious human rights abuses, slave labor, spying, etc, with virtual impunity. Hubbard wanted it both ways. He wanted tax-free money, and, he wanted to be an incredible tyrant accountable to no one. Therefore he created a religion within which to conceal his business.

      Hubbard created a huge problem for himself and his Church when he ordered millions of dollars in cash to be skimmed off Church coffers each month for his own benefit. He laundered some, but not all, of the money through a sham corporation called the Religious Research Foundation. A brief overview on this sham corporation from the xenu.net archives: http://www.xenu.net/archive/IRS/corp_veil.html

      “The Religious Research Foundation (“RRF”) was founded in Monrovia, Liberia, under the direction of former Deputy Guardian Finance World Wide, Herbie Parkhouse. The purpose of RRF was to collect monies paid by U.S. Scientologists for services they would receive from scientology, primarily at the Flag Land Base. The purpose of RRF was to evade U.S. taxes by listing all payments to a foreign corporation. The RRF collected many millions in this way, all untaxed and unreported to the IRS. The amount exceeded $45 million by 1981. The total amount transferred during 1981 probably exceeds this amount.”

      Hubbard had a cash pile as a result of inurement and money laundering. He wanted that dirty money to make him more money. And yet Hubbard was forced to spend the last nine years of his life hiding from the FBI, the IRS, and the service of summons on numerous lawsuits where he was named.

      This forced Hubbard to entrust his investments to crooked Church CPA Herbie Parkhouse, and others, through David Miscavige. Acting on Hubbard’s behalf, Herbie had set up sham corporations, laundered money, etc. and was dirty from the beginning. Thus, Herbie was naturally attracted to sleazy Oklahoma wildcatters and the sharks up there in the notorious Vancouver Stock Exchange.

      The fact is that Herbie and Dave had to go look for investments for Ron. Those shady oil guys in Oklahoma found Herbie and Dave to be fat chickens ripe for plucking. There was no real oil in Oklahoma and there had been any for a long time. Some fake studies showed

      As an objective statement, there was a large demand for Scientology goods and services when Hubbard was alive. Mine is not a statement of efficacy of those goods and services; it is only an observation based upon the reported $400,000,000 Hubbard had in his accounts when he died in January 1986. This would be something like one billion dollars today adjusted for inflation.

      • Cat Daddy

        SCAM

    • Cat Daddy
    • Bradley Greenwood

      This post was very informative. Everyday I realize I am less and less a Scientology “expert”. I mostly loved this post, because it really showed “Moonface” in an accurate light.

    • Diane Arden

      They also have a page on Facebook, called TheRouteOut. It has pretty and cute pics daily of animals and quotes from various sources.The use of the word freedom, and freespeech is sickening, coming from them. It appeared on my homepage about 3 months ago. I have made some comments about the hypocrisy of the Cult using the word Freedom and Free Speech in the same sentence. and that it was an oxymoron coming from the Cult. But i have to admit, because i am on a large virtual casino game site on FB, and i use my real name, that i may have repercussions with the Cult. And i dont want that as i have many friends on here. Anyway does anybody else get these feeds from TheRouteOut? I think its a new way to get new people into the Cult, cause they are on very shaky ground with all that is going down around them.

  • Mark

    Whenever I hear “clusters of body thetans” I always imagine… damn, media_lush got there first. Oh well (refresh):

    • joan nieman

      Lol! Thanks for the chuckle Mark!

    • Buttons72

      Hey! As I posited, they must be dug from the nose! Eureka!

  • N. Graham

    If Body Thetans can go clear and exterior, can they also have BTs of their own?

    • MaxSpaceman

      No, as the BT has no ‘body’ in which another BT could lodge. But BTs have budds and they cluster together. And sometimes a $cilon must use “The Thetan Hand” to scrape the buggers off that ‘ridge’ that’s been established around the cerebral cortex.

      Geesh . . .

      • Buttons72

        Can one just dig them out of one’s nose and be done with it already?

    • Andrew Robertson

      Great BT’s have little BT’s upon their backs to bite ’em,
      And little BT’s have lesser BT’s, and so ad infinitum.
      And the great BT’s themselves, in turn, have greater BT’s to go on,
      While these again have greater still, and greater still, and so on.

      Andrew

      (Adapted from an original idea by Augustus De Morgan 1806 – 1871)

    • media_lush

      quantum thetans….. surprised they haven’t thought of this for OT 9 or some such

      • Science Doc

        I’ve just discovered I’m covered in Higgs Bosons, and they are carrying Mass!

      • OTIVQuadrillion

        OTIX barely even scratches the surface of the surface.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      They can, but then they’d have to do a thousand sec checks, lower ethics conditions, and write a hundred essays on how clean they now feel and how grateful they are to give away all their monies. Oh, and ship all the little BT’s off to the Sea Org where they belong.

      • aquaclara

        So BTs can have babies, but Sea Org members cannot….BTs can be cleared, but Sea Org members can’t reach Clear.
        BTs can fly around wherever they want, with no work to do, but Sea Org members have to stay and do all the work.
        BTs can sleep in, but Sea Org members have to catch that early bus, work all day, and give up their sleep to help Tom Cruise find his damn BTs.
        This makes about as much sense as….well, the rest of Scientology. Now you’re going to tell me that the BTs get all this attention for free. Damn it.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          hahahah. I was just kidding, but your take is funny. Now that you mention it, the BT’s really did have it better than the scientologists!

          • aquaclara

            Just a little disseminationness of the silliness of this ecclesiastical planetary clearingness sh*t on this fine Tuesday. I want every Sea Org member to leave and go enjoy the wonder of a beautiful blue sky in a garden like yours. Or mine, when it isn’t buried under snow.

    • BosonStark

      BTs having BTs, don’t be ridiculous! Sometimes when BT leaves though, they probably leave a ghost, or if it’s a cluster, a clusterness of ghosts. Then you probably need the BT ghostbusting rundown, not to be confused with the squirrel busters and their ecclesiastical quest for trademark adherence.

      • aquaclara

        Nominating this for Mish Kid’s lists of REALLY FUNNY things said about Scientology: “the ecclesiastical quest for trademark adherence.”

    • OTIVQuadrillion

      Absolutely. As well as Clusters. And those BTs and Clusters can have their own BTs and Clusters. Hence, the importance of auditing on the Whole Tracks, not just one linear Whole Track.

      Once you Bunkerwogs appreciate just how much AMAZING research LRH did after he dropped his meat body, you’ll stop all your snarky comments.

      Sorry, got to run now and blow some more charge.

      • Sibs

        No matter how much I’ve read on Scientology, “blowing charge” still sounds like something dirty.

        • Cat Daddy

          Ill bet you have a “dirty needle”

        • MaxSpaceman

          I know, me too. One time I was gonna ask the person, Who is Charge?

  • oopityping

    Does money not have a way of attaching itself to things that some person or persons deems valuable whether they are truly worthless or not? Look what Debeers did to diamonds. They replaced rubies (another worthless artifact) And how many people have died over diamonds? The movie “Marathon Man” comes to mind.

    A handful of L. Ron Hubbard’s insights and stolen ideas were turned into a book and then a religion and now all kinds of atrocious behaviours are done to ensure it’s survival.

    I cannot think of a single thing that anyone ever perceived there was some value or benefit to, real or imagined and completely baseless that was not monetized. If something is profitable it can outlast all criticism. IMO Scientology persisted solely because it became a successful business. And Scientology will disappear now, not because all the criticisms are true or not true but because it is no longer a successful business.

    • Mooser

      “And Scientology will disappear now, not because all the criticisms are
      true or not true but because it is no longer a successful business.”

      Stop it, kid, you’re breaking my fucking heart. Gosh, when I think about it that way, I want to get up a petition to have Scientology tax-supported. Or at least a multi-billion dollar research project to determine how much Scientology can help people.

      • Troy MacGyver

        No lets not start sucking the LDS,yet. They practice,”shunning” and child sexual abuse. They never go to the police…sounds like another group I know including Jehvah’s bunch. Cos same kool-aid-punch. Secret underwear?

    • Trust me Guest. If the Mormon’s can do it, so can Scientology.

      • oopityping

        If mood rings, pet rocks and the Kardashians can do it, yes anyone can do it. There is nothing under the sun, including the sun, that cannot be monetized. Landfill sites are cash generators for some. One city pays another city to take all their garbage.

        • While I agree with you, I was commenting on the “no longer a successful business” part. The LDS survived that. So can Scientology.

          • Guest

            I am unfamiliar with the history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Did it run like a business with a church front as well, and eventually survive total bankruptsy?

            • They restructured and reformed in the face of heavy negative publicity. They have a successful business operation today, which charges 10% tithes to the paychecks of members.

            • Cat Daddy

              Don’t they actually help you when you have problems ?

            • Captain Howdy

              As much as i think LDS is a cult and a scam they actually do help people. They have a number of strategically located massive warehouse complexes across the U.S and have been instrumental in relief for natural disasters like Katrina etc.

            • Cat Daddy

              “We” the dutch offered help right away but stupid George Bush and his goverment didn’t accept it untill weeks had past.

            • If it’s any consolation, they only “help” when it meets their narcissistic goal of good publicity. If a member of the church is going through hard times they can rely on the church for food, only as long as they pay it back when they have money through the 10% tithes. It’s not real charity.

            • Cat Daddy

              It beats having American “Insureance”

            • Guest

              Anything is possible but Scientology’s survival or rebirth seems like a long shot. My money is on it being gone by the end of this year.

            • MaxSpaceman

              you’re even more than the definition of an ‘optimist’ !

    • Barbara Angel

      Does that mean that Body Thetans are the *New Must Have’s*???

    • Captain Howdy

      “And how many people have died over diamonds? The movie “Marathon Man” comes to mind.”

      This is true. Laurence Olivier is dead, Roy Scheider is dead. They’re all dead except Hoffman. Watch your back Dustin!

      • oopityping

        “Marathon Man Storyline
        In New York City, the brother of an infamous Nazi war criminal is killed in a head on collision car accident. Shortly thereafter, members of a covert US government group called “The Division” begin to be murdered one by one. When the brother to one Division member sees his brother knifed to death, it is revealed that former SS dentist Szell, “the White Angel” of Auschwitz, is wrapping up loose ends to smuggle priceless diamonds from the United States.”

        • Captain Howdy

          Oy vey! It was a joke you shlemiel.

  • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

    History Note:

    Very excellent unprecedented detailed interview and really the first time ever, this detailed, of OT 5!

    People can hardly appreciate this detail into Hubbard’s crazy exorcism, but this interview, Bruce’s detailed answers, I’ve not read this much detail.

    Past interviewers have simply not printed or let be heard the details that Bruce is detailing. More could be done, but this is unprecdented, for new religion or religion scholars to see the detail of the Hubbard exorcism.

    Of course it sounds crazy, it is so out on an limb, this is crazy expert territory, out in a zone it takes years of beliefs to have priorly accepted, to believe this stuff.

    Okay, the VERY important piece of info I have to give, is relating historically to Bruce’s discussion of the long ago Cathy Rinder compilation about “Staff Meeting.”

    This Hubbard “Staff Meeting” raw manuscript, was Hubbard to ASI staff. That traffic was NOT allowed to be read at Int (Bruce’s location in Senior C/S Int Office), excepting the exact staff doing the compilations (I know, I worked both very shortly, 6 months, in Compilations, and later I worked and READ all of Hubbard’s ASI traffic, as I later became an ASI staffer in 1992-1995).

    I can confirm, that Cathy did use the Hubbard “ASI Staff Meeting” writing, to then turn that writing into a valid ,and absoutely valid as it is almost verbatim Hubbard’s writings to ASI staff.

    ASI staff being who they are, a whole other blog, if necessary, someday.

    Anyways, for history, the “Staff Meeting” policy today, in Scientology, is taken very closely from the Hubbard’s weekly answers to ASI, regarding the staff meetings for ASI, and also from years of prior policy Hubbard wrote for staff.

    Policy is what I poured over, first as administrative Hubbard writing’s “Course Supervisor” (training officer, not lecturer, althought I graded all student essays and practical writings, and thus had to read all the key Hubbard policy points that all students, all admin course, ever studied, including even some Guardian’s Office staffers for a few months) in my years as training officer

    I was training officer 1977 to 1983 (sup and 1 year word clearer).
    I was compilations officer in traininng (Sep 88 to Feb 89)
    I was ASI staffer from 1992 to 1995.

    Bruce is unbelievable is telling so much, and thankyou Tony for this incredible series of such detailed fine points!

    Chuck Beatty
    ex Sea Org 1975-2003
    412-260-1170
    chuckbeatty77@aol.com

    • Buttons72

      You’re a blitzburg guy, yes? Right on! That’s my adopted hometown. Glad you made it out, Mr. Beatty 🙂

    • Bruce Hines

      Thanks, Chuck! I did not know about these ASI advices. I’m wondering though, why did Cathy come to me one time in a private moment very worried about having to make up stuff for the “Staff Meeting” policy letter (which was to be issued with Hubbard as the author)?

      • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

        Bruce,

        Bear with me returning into total zombie staffer mode, completely literal at interpreting ALL of the compilation rules.

        Cathy’s a get a done kind of lady, Apollo Vet, some know their latitude, know what LRH wants, like she would absoutely be qualled for a lot of posts at Int, but as we know, people have differing survival rates based on big enough errors or they want off a post.

        Compiling an actual issue means follow the checklist of Hubbard issues.

        Remember what the “standard” way was. We studied the “Hat”…

        In a nutshell LRH laid out in about a dozen or more key refs how he wished his “timeless tech” points, be packaged in issues.

        The endings and sometimes beginnings, and the fluff spaces in compiled issues always come off as NOT LRH.

        Humble compilers would admit they were poor at writing the fluff sections.

        Or, like you said, the difficulty in changing the ASI staff directed wording to all staff wording is what she was getting in trouble with.

        She had to take some of what he wrote, since he wrote it for ASI staff. LRH openly, to ASI, wished the to have more money, nicer clothes, which is why ASI have both, more than the lower actual church echelons. She had to minus some of the ASI specific perks that LRH wished for them out, the editing likely was a tiny problem.

        And the part of the LRH checklist that compilers us to add the fluff sections in issues issued under his name, that trick, only the most skilled compilers could do and still sound like LRH.

        As a admin training course sup, I’ve heard from students, my share of complaints that issues written by Hubbard “didn’t sound like him.” We all felt that way, some issues were poor and we didn’t get it. Some issues sounded, we’re talking the 1971 issues, a couple even by Jeff Walker, while better than later kinda dorky LRH issues with to me, with all my knowledge on LRH issues now, I agree, Walker is way better than Broeker. And I liked Dan Koon, he could absolutely tell the details of how hard Cathy’s job was.

        • Bruce Hines

          Thanks again, Chuck!

          • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

            Priceless series here you and Claire answering step by step, especially the OT (supernatural, not) levels.

      • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

        I could talk, and wish Dan Koon and Russ Williams would jump in, or someday we have a question and answer talk, so past really skilled compilers tell the details of what they did.

        Steve Cooke, he really knows the “rejects” to the submissions, he as the Admin for Compilations, for years, knows the rejects, knows why issues were submitted.

        Likely Cathy was “on a reject” as we know what that means. She was rebounding from a quick reject from someone not yet DM, for instance, and pondering how to add the fluff sections.

        Dan Koon can tell about writing what I call the fluff sections, a whole discussion on that art, so one comes off like LRH, sounding like LRH, and not like how dreadful Pat Broeker sounded in those final “Admin Know How” issues I think around 1986, which are pukey dreadful fake LRH.

        LRH, again, is the good old source and he is the one that compilers fake the fluff sections and supposedly how they should fill in the rest of the issue.

        The kernel, the “timeless tech” section of the LRH issues is the most important.

        IN my years, I am NOT a believer in one stitch of this today, but as a robot ex member, I tell people just to realize in the supposedly “revised” LRH issues, the key point is the “timeless tech” parts of the LRH issues.

        Of course, there are additionally, for tech issues, like Russ Williams used to complain, there’s NO LRH material to go on.

        As a robot trained perfectionist, then, I used to think Russ was slacking, compared to Ken Rose, who at least knew that piloting was important.

        But today, even piloting crazy imaginary exorcism, I mean who’s going to ever truly get that piloting done when the whole procedure is nutso, no matter what.

        Successful piloting of OT 5, means a whole lot of creative piloting of a whole wide variety of people, a whole lot of imagination, to me now when I think what these people were believing they were doing with their minds!

        • Captain Howdy

          Tony should get you, Bruce and Dan to do a series of general tech articles. Maybe Mayo if he can track him down..hah!

        • grundoon

          This is really interesting, Chuck. There always has been a lot of mystery around the compilations process. I hadn’t previously heard that LRH gave written instructions for staff to produce some of the obviously non-LRH portions in some HCOBs and HCOPLs.

          • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

            I’ve hoped Dan Koon would someday write a lot more, or next time you see Dan Koon post here, throw him some Compilations questions. Dan and Russ Williams are free to discuss their dozens and probably hundreds of compilations they submitted and got approved in their years as LRH Compilations Officers.

            There are half a dozen ex compilers, free to talk, if asked, the details.

            The “Compilations Officer Hat Checksheet” I did the whole thing, and became “fully hatted”, although only 1 HCOB or 2, did I actually merely assist Dan with, in my very short time as a failed compiler overall.

            For another day, believe me, over the years, the life of some of the most famous Scientology compilations officers and them being interviewed, is a tiny side story.

            Dan and Russ, and others, are out. Plenty dealt with their submissions, Steve Cooke was the admin who kept the files of thousands of submissions over the years he was admin in the Comps Branch, and Steve’s a very straight speaking person.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Before the Purists slither out and yap about the usual pre Miscavige or post Mayo this or that, it matters not. If OT3 doesn’t wake you up, NOT’s is the definitive make/break point, the pass/fail test of mental stability, and the last voyage to Sanesville. My NOT’s auditor was a friend so I was able to snickersnort each step of the way. NOT’s sessions were often only 5 minutes long and then you were like Zomgghpfft! Outta your head. When it first came out, it was built up to be better than a thousand Christmas presents and Superman and walking on water. So when I did, in fact, go outta my head, I laughed and laughed and couldn’t stop laughing how marvelous it was to be outta my head, like it was a good thing.

    By the time you’ve finished with NOT’s you simply have to notice that it’s not helping you in your life in even the most mundane manner much less spectacular. For me it was impossible not to notice because I was on staff and I sure as hell was powerless in effecting any change whatsoever in the madness that was being acted out by everyone around me. And now I had finally become just as broken down as the rest. Ask me how much it matters if I “missed” the additional rundowns added later on and by who. Soon after this lab rat experiment, waving my “theta hand” to rid myself of those stubborn BT’s who just wouldn’t let go, I let go too. You just don’t come out of the NOT’s insanity sane. Every single one of the feelings and sensations and perceptions NOT’s completions all blab about are listed out as symptoms of various mental disorders. Every. One.

    The real pay off of the OT levels if you want to know the truth is not mystical powers. It’s the relief you feel that all your quirks and faults and past transgressions weren’t really YOUR quirks and faults and transgressions. Whew! What do you know. I’m wonderful and perfect after all. This appeals to the narcissists big time. The rest eventually realize their quirks are the best part of their personality, their faults and transgressions were life lessons, and that you’d rather be You than a scientologist.

    • Sherbet

      A bittersweet post from someone who knows. Thank you, TH.

    • Dylan

      thank you for this!

    • Captain Howdy

      Very well said and very helpful in helping me understand .

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      I want to pay tribute to my NOT’s auditor. She died very young from cancer. NOT’s did not cure her. Her RPF assignment did not cure her. She was a bright smile and quick wit and her memory is now one of my flowers planted in my garden. She was a good friend. I wish I could have convinced her to leave with me and the rest of us. It’s too late for her but I hope her son wakes up and soon.

      • Zaphod Beeblebrox

        How sad. Sorry for your pain.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Thanks. Survivor’s guilt is just one more hurdle on the road to recovery for many of us.

          • Eclipse-girl

            I am sorry for the loss of your friend.
            I am grateful that you shared this story with us.

            I would have said only the bullies are left, but pegging those who remain as narcissists is much more accurate. Narcissism leads to abusive behavior of everyone else, except the narcissist.

      • Baby

        Oh our dear friend.. You are so loved.

      • califa007

        Is your friend’s son, Houston, a Course Supervisor at CCI? The CCI Houston seemed to be basically a sweet kid, but so indoctrinated it would take a volcano to wake him up. I liked him in spite of his being a walking, talking, compendium of LRH quotes.

    • aquaclara

      “You just don’t come out of the NOT’s insanity sane. Every single one of the feelings and sensations and perceptions NOT’s completions all blab about are listed out as symptoms of various mental disorders. Every. One. ”

      Sadly, this has been true for far too many. THDNE, I hope every Scientologist who is on the fence and reading this right now decides that TODAY is the day to do something special for themselves. Walk away from the cult. Start anew, and find peace, with no body thetans to be found. It’s free.

    • What? You mean…you mean that the way that Scientologists act isn’t normal? WHAT? All this time.

      Wait no, it can’t be true. You just didn’t do it the second and third and fourth times it was revised. See when Miscavige discovered that Mayo did everything right and that Hubbard was wrong, everything became so clear. It just made sense. It was like walking through a freshly mowed grass field on a slightly crisp spring day. When I did GAT XVIII I felt like putting on my shawl and spinning around in dandelions.

      I was walking down the street laughing and scoffing at the pitiful people walking past me in their business suits with all their money. Pffffftttt! Who needs money when you can laugh at things in your head all day long! Those people just don’t know what’s up. It’s all about that wide eyed stare and hating psychs, that’s where the happiness is!

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        I’ll have what you’re having today!

        • Potato soup, Coke Zero, and qualudes.

          • Captain Howdy

            They don’t make Quaaludes anymore, kiddo…I wish.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Hey, I don’t even do Coke! No, I mean the soda. Potato soup it is then.

            • Captain Howdy

              I love coke, hate cocaine. Stupid drug, waste of money

              “Give me librium or give me meth!”

            • “Coke made you feel like a new man. And the first thing the new man wanted was another hit of coke.”

            • Kim O’Brien

              us chicks never had to pay for it ..that made it easier 😉

            • Barbara Angel

              Oh yes we did, we paid for it one way or another……………..

            • Dylan

              I don’t know anything about any coke, BUt there is a pepsi machine just down the hall if ya like.

            • Barbara Angel

              I used to be hooked on coca-cola. Had a bottle next to the alarm clock, during long and exhausting work days, it went on for years and coca-cola got me through. Wouldn’t be interested in the other coke, not after watching my cousin slipping down that slippery slope.

            • Dylan

              a poorly done movie quote on my part. sorry. that is a quote from the movie True Romance. One of my fav’s by the Q master.

      • OrangySky

        You make ME laugh Derek!

    • OrangySky

      Wow, Hole.

      “The rest eventually realize their quirks are the best part of their personality, their faults and transgressions were life lessons, and that you’d rather be You than a scientologist.”

      That’s a life lesson for all of us, even those who never were Scientologists.

      Glad you aren’t batshit crazy anymore – or at least, just enough batshit crazy to fit in here with the rest of us nutcases on the Fringes! xo

  • mpl

    THE BUNKER: Yeah, there’s nothing insane about that at all.
    LOL!!!!! My thoughts exactly, Tony!

  • nottrue

    Rest in peace dear Suzan

  • OTIVQuadrillion

    Having just attested to OTIVQuaddrillion, I thought it would be useful to exercise my new powers over Time On the Whole Tracks (and, yes, that’s “Tracks” plural) to share some light on the the OT levels you Bunkerwogs have yet to even hear about.

    It did take me a little while to get around to posting this since I spent 130,084.23 of your “Earth” years alternately crying and laughing–that’s how much charge I blew when I finally achieved the OTIVQuaddrillion F/N EP.

    AMAZING WINS!!! Every other level seems like child’s play by comparison. OTIII.999,999,999,999,999 pales in comparison. The $9,348,912,447,852, 946, 654,121 I invested to get to this point of TOTAL CAUSE OVER EVERYTHING was a bargain! Thank you so much, Ron!

    What all this now-outmoded NOTs fails to recognize that that your BTs and Clusters also have their own BTs and Clusters. Back you in your era of being stuck on one linear Whole Track, no one realized that full OT potential can only be realized when you audit these BTs and Clusters.

    In fact, these BTs and Clusters have their own BTs and Clusters. You have to go all the way back to Incident I to deal with all the accumulated charge.

  • Wow… So basically, when I say Scientology is all about exorcism of alien demons…well it really is. Even down to commanding the demon to tell you it’s name which is part of some exorcisms. I guess Hubbard really took his Satanic teachings to heart when he invented his religion. Also can we not refer to these things as “discovered”? Discovery implies the thing already existed and was waiting to be found. Hubbard invented things, he didn’t discover them. The same way that Miscavige is inventing things not discovering them.

    • Barbara Angel

      LRH was a barking mad drug addict so of course he invented things. Lots of *things* were floating around in Ron Land, so he decided to give them a name and then make people believe that his ‘floaties’ were real. Hahahahah good con Ron, trouble is Ron probably truly believed his ‘floaties’ were real.

    • OrangySky

      Nix “Discovered.”
      Replace with “Pulled out of his own fat ass.”

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        or POOFA for short. Good one

        • OrangySky

          I like “Poofa”! It can be a verb like “Hearsayed.”
          Hubbard “poofa’ed” the tone scale, for example!

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            I like it.

  • Sherbet

    I woke up my space cooties, and they took one look at the cost of buying into the fraudulent alphabet soup of NOTS, nuts, and BS, and they went back to sleep.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      I spent maybe a grand total of $5,000. How did I do it? I guess I’m just a Natural OT. Woh! Natural OT! Hands off, Miscavige. I’m going to the trademark and copyright office right now….

      • Sherbet

        Wow, you got a bargain, Natural OT Does Exist.

      • Zaphod Beeblebrox

        Now you’re a Natural SP! 😉

    • aquaclara

      letting sleeping space cookies lie, eh?

      • Sherbet

        No, Hubbard lies, and the space cooties nap. 😀

        • aquaclara

          🙂

      • Observer

        Mmmm … Space cookies …

        • Sherbet

          I smiled at that, too, especially since I have 2 boxes of Thin Mint Girl Scout Cookies in my desk drawer.

          • aquaclara

            I LOVE Girl Scout cookie season. and yes, that was a typo. But I shall keep it! It’s tasty!

            • Sherbet

              Here are 2 cookies for you, aquaclara: O O

            • aquaclara

              …..thanks. just a few crumbs left.

            • Sherbet

              Sort of like scientology. LOL LOL LOL I slay me.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Okay, you guys are hurting my pun brain. And making me hungry for evil crumbs. Walks off to munch on veggies.

            • Sherbet

              O O O O O Cookies for everyone, TH.

  • (image) Wake up, space cooties, there’s no sleeping on park benches.

    Godda love the criminal mind that convinces dimbulbs they’re infested with invisible murdered space aliens which require literally an endless amount of money to scrape off, aliens that keep coming back and re-infesting you so that you are never “clear” of these cooties.

    Also godda love the human brain that is capable of believing such obvious bullshit. Our primate brains are broken, we compartmentalize what we will think critically and reasonably about, and what we will knowingly pretend is real despite obviously being bullshit frauds.

    On the other hand, Chemtrails are real. Chemtrails! CHEMTRAILS! Save us, Ron Paul! Save us!

    • Mooser

      With Ron Paul saving us from chemtrails (at least I’m sure he will have them properly looked into) and Rand Paul saving us from “pedatory” sexual behavior, this country may have a chance!

  • Party Hull!

    I’m sure most already know, but Louis Theroux really is an excellent journalist who has made some fantastic documentaries about all kinds of bizarre, obscene and frankly dangerous people/groups.

    He has a fantastic way of disarming people and earning trust. As a result, he has managed to achieve some really honest and frank moments from previously guarded people.

    It remains to be seen whether this is possible with Scientology, as they remain aggressively defensive towards everyone, everywhere, regardless. Unless you’re one of them, you’re a bigot etc etc, no matter how reasonable your enquiries may be. Still, I hold out hope that he can add even more interesting stuff to the huge catalogue of Scientology investigating out there, and it will be fascinating to see what he is faced with, a couple of years on from the last Sweeney report.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Please let John Allender, the Squirrel Busters, DeDe from Phoenix, the Door Knob ladies and the Inch Wives be part of this documentary. Comedy gold in them there hills.

      • Party Hull!

        Absolutely. If anyone would come off looking incurably manic in the face of a bewildered, yet polite Mr Theroux, it is they…

        • Mooser

          But Mr. Theroux says: “The idea is it for it to be a non-judgmental inquiry into Scientology beliefs and practices, from inside the Church.”

          Now, how could they possibly object to that? Why, they should welcome him with open arms!

          • Party Hull!

            He’ll approach it with his usual polite charm, coming across as perhaps even a little naive.

            He’s obtained some great stuff doing that over the years.

            • Mooser

              Funny, I’ve never seen a religion which wasn’t glad of an opportunity to explain their point of view, and assure listeners that their faith is no threat to the community. Oh, wait sorry, my brain did a time-warp and I thought I was back in the 60’s.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            You mean, like this welcome?

            http://i.imgur.com/AqNYxYwl.jpg

            • Baby

              I am NOT kidding..This is one of my favorite pictures featuring Scn. loones..

            • Suppressive Tomato

              Me too! It’s like the most real thing you’ve ever seen where Scn is concerned.

            • Baby

              It should be titled..

              ” Misery Loves Company..” Come join us

            • Barbara Angel

              Happiness is *definitely not* in Jabba Krusty’s face either. Her wonderful *religion* doesn’t seem to be working out for her, or for the ones pictured above. The above photo pictures the misery of the ‘Beans & Rice’ Brigade and they’ve probably just received yet another ‘kicking’ for not making enough Moneeeeeeeeeeeeee Door duty until they’ve met their $$$$ quota.

          • BosonStark

            When I read that plea of Theroux, I laughed. Scientology’s beliefs and practices are for sale only. Janet Reitman was the last person they allowed for some access to a few clams and I doubt they’ll ever do that again.

            And can you imagine if he gets someone who just talks about their social betterment programs and all the new Orgs?

            • lalo

              Perhaps the call to Scientologists is for him to show that he made every attempt to have them tell their side of the story. When no one agrees to be interviewed, he can then use that as part of the documentary.

            • OrangySky

              Yes I imagine Davey’s new policy of no media contact is set in stone by now.
              Where oh where are you, Karin Pouw?
              Why has no one ever seen you in person?

            • Panopea Abrupta

              She is NOT a POW
              She is not in Gitmo
              She may even be a pigment of SmackDaddy’s infertile imagination.

          • Barbara Angel

            Hahahahah Fat chance on that one.

          • Captain Howdy

            Ask a scientologist if they’re a scientologist and clock your stopwatch for the quickest feral eye gaze response.

      • The documentary could feature a soundtrack by Chill E.B. and the Jive Aces.

        • Panopea Abrupta

          other groups and bands for the soundtrack:

          Miss Cabbage and the Brussel Sprouts
          Posse of Lunatics
          El Wretch and the Body Thetans
          The Space Cookie Five

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          and JoJo Zawawi, the musical Facebook police! Is it a musical or a documentary?

      • Baby

        OMG and PLLLLLLLLLease feature the Lady who sees a Thetan in her Mirror..

    • PoisonIvyHerself

      Louis is now my new addiction. I watched his Westboro doc, and then his gambling doc. I have a feeling I’ll be watching all of them. They’re extremely well done. Love that BBC – you in the UK get so much smarter stuff than we get here.

  • So, is this the part of NOT where we handle physical conditions? As in, we’re practising medicine without a license?

    Oh, and if anyone wants to film victims of the mind-fuck perpetrated by the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology proudly doing their thing, surely all they need to do is take a hidden camera to outside the courthouse where Monique Rathbun is taking Captain David “he is NOT insane!” Miscavige and his shell corporations to court.

    • NED 34 is where the insane criminals really start committing medical fraud

  • Captain Howdy

    Thanks Bruce and Tony.

    “It can result in illness or body problems or confusion or upsets or whatever.”

    That sums up the tech very succinctly for me..WHATEVER..Elaraitch spewed up, belched, farted or sweated out that day became scripture.

    “Lost in a conman’s wilderness of pain,
    And all the children are INSANE”

  • Mooser

    “I was living in LA working as an electrician…”

    So presumably you had a working knowledge of electricity, Ohm’s Law and may have even used an ohm-meter before? Okay, things just got way too deep for me.

  • How about a new fake “reality show” involving heavily-infested Scientology customers living together in filthy, crowded conditions while they run around scraping off their cooties? That seems about what one can expect from “reality” shows these days. 🙂 Abject stupidity that is 100% fake.

    • Barbara Angel

      Wouldn’t have enough glamour, perhaps that Kardashian mother might offer her services as a consultant?

      • Well let’s get “Honey Boo Boo” to sign up for a billion year contract, then.

        • Barbara Angel

          Hahahahah Yes, yes that’s the perfect answer. Even in Australia we know about Honey Boo Boo and her mothers wonderful influence???……”I’ll Holler for a Dollar” cringe, cringe. Such a ‘charming’ family…………………………. Not.

    • Verve

      So basically, Scientology.

    • Captain Howdy

      ….

    • Mooser

      Oh, I think there’s a Scientology Reality Show waiting to be made. It’ll be made among Indies, who are eager to advertise their split with the ‘fundamentalist’ and ‘medieval’ Church of Scientology under Davey Miscavige, and show Scientology’s effectiveness and reliability and let it be subjected to scientific scrutiny.

  • BosonStark

    I wonder how successful it would have been if instead of Scientology Hubbard called it, “Space Cootieology.”

  • Sarah James

    I thought it said space cookies. I might join a religion that had space cookies. Maybe if I started a cult that had space cookies, Kirstie would be lured away from scion but of course I would then be stuck with Kirstie and obligated to provide space cookies. 🙁

    • Sherbet

      Farther down in the thread we were talking about space cookies. But, you know, Sarah? I think you hit onto something. When all the whales with deep pockets head out to deeper waters, cos will need to raise money, so door-to-door space cookie sales might do the trick. I’ll bet this Bunker full of clever people can come up with good flavors like these: NOTS and Nuts; Fruitcake; Ideal Chocolate Org-asm; L. Ron Buttered…

      • Sarah James

        I’m in Colorado Sherbet, I could make make some kick ass space cookies.

        • Sherbet

          Oh, I’ll bet you could, Sarah.

        • Mooser

          You could sell them galaxy-to-galaxy!

          • Sherbet

            Guh-LAX-y Gingersnaps…

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Boo-Hoos, Cluster Fucks, Gang Bang Goobers, Macadamia Marcabs, Natter Nutters, Piltdown Pralines, Rocky Slammers, RPF Slimers, Squirrely Snickerballs, YSCOHB Suckers

        • Sherbet

          You get a space cookie cadet badge for those, TH! Excellent!

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            just hand over the scout mints… tks

            • Sherbet

              Come and get ’em, TH. I’m protecting them with my life, whole track of course.

            • Baby

              Thin Mints are fabulous crumbled up in Vanilla Ice cream.. Yum

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              arghh….thin mints on ice cream. I guess I could take my celery stick and use it as a spoon…then it’s all good, right?

            • Baby

              Well..Duh? ha

        • Zaphod Beeblebrox

          SP Hole-Nuts, Regger’s Delights, IAS Truffles (super expensive, people get pressured to buy these truffles)

          • Sherbet

            And at $2,250 a box, DM will be able to keep himself floating in Macallan for years to come.

        • Mooser

          What about (please, look away now!) that perennial favorite “Sebaceous S’mores”?

          • Sherbet

            I downvoted you, Mooser, because, well, you know why. Urp!

            • Mooser

              “I downvoted you, Mooser, because, well, you know why.”

              Unfortunately, I do. I think less of myself, too. It’s like that girl told me when I asked her, “Was it good for you, too?” She looked me right in the eye and said “Mooser, I don’t think that was good for anybody!”.

            • Mooser

              Enough with the up-votes, already! So nice to know my erotic humiliation meets with such general approval.

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              If it makes you feel any better, my up vote was only partially due to your erotic humiliation. I also found the idea that the ladies call you Mooser to be very amusing.

            • Mooser

              Well, by the time I’m fluttering like a wounded bird in their boudoir, they’re usually calling me “Moosie”, truth be told, nod-nod, wink-wink.

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              Like a tru playa.

            • Mooser

              “Like a tru playa.”

              You bet! I’ve got the cool, clear eyes of a seeker of wisdom and truth, yet with the slam-bang tang reminiscent of gin and vermouth, yet.

              Oh, I believe in me.

            • Mooser

              , “my up vote was only partially due to your erotic humiliation”

              Oh, that’s all right. As those things go, the humiliation was only partial.

            • Mooser

              And, come to think of it, why shouldn’t they call me “Mooser” Keep in mind I am about 5’10 and consist of 175 lbs of strapping snips, snails and puppy-dog tails, all coiled like a steel string! With palmate antlers, in season.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Wow.. That would make an awesome MatchDOTcom profile..

            • Mooser

              It’s not a Down-vote, it’s an Urp-vote! I will not, of course, ask why it urps.

            • Sherbet

              Groaning at your pun, Moose.

            • Mooser

              Well then, well settle it at the Hokey corral.

        • Baby

          But none with holes in them.. OH NO NO..

      • Zana

        L. Ron Buttered…. Still laughing!
        Solo Nuts. OT = Orgasmic Tiramisu. Wheeee… let’s all go OT with that one.

      • Captain Howdy

        ….

        • Sherbet

          I think we’ve beaten this joke into the ground, although I’ll add one final flavor: Dave’s Short Bread.

          • Captain Howdy

            Those dots mean I’m too cool to type “refresh”.

            • Sherbet

              Cool, you are.

      • Jimmy Threetimes

        Xenut Butter Crunch
        Niacinnamon Crisps
        Truthiness Treats
        GAG-Alongs

        • Sherbet

          ^^^^ Jimmy!

          • Mooser

            Hmmmm, Niacinnamon Crisps at Narcanon!

      • Illinoisian

        Late to the party. Bringing Chocolate Preclaires.

        • Sherbet

          Love it, Linc!

      • sugarplumfairy
    • I miss Ida and her snickerdoodles. 🙁

  • Q: Why do customers scrape off their alien infestations?

    A: Because they harbor memories and cause all your problems, mental, physical, and emotional

    Q: What about the aliens that have good, beneficial thoughts, why scrape them off also?

    A: Because that violently insane fuckltard L. Ron Hubbard is selling the rubes a fraud and his criminal enterprise gets more money when people scrape them all off as opposed to picking through those that are detrimental and those that are beneficial

    Q: Then why didn’t Hubbard sell the dipshits “technology” that identifies the good from the bad and only scrape off the bad ones, developing “technology” that “wakes up” the beneficial infestations?

    A: because Hubbard was a fucking drug-addled alcoholic conman who didn’t think of that

    • ze moo

      I believe you have defined GAT3.

    • PoisonIvyHerself

      Because that will be on OTIX and OTX…which Davey will purport to find in some footlocker somewhere and will claim to be scribblings from Hubbard’s deathbed.

  • Speaking of waking up one’s space cooties that are asleep, does anyone else remember Jackie Gleason in Smokey And The Bandit (image) where he comes across kids stripping a car and he lines them up and kicks one in the ass and says, “That was an attention getter?” Waking up one’s space cooties for some reason reminded me of that.

    Waky, waky, BTs! KICK! That was an attention getter.

  • Mooser

    “Moving on Up” is red-hot today!

    • Captain Howdy

      More of Marty raving about shit he shouldn’t considering the suit.

      • Mooser

        I wouldn’t know about that. But he sure is playing right to DM’s probable mis-perception of what the suit is about. And the response in comments is tremendous. An association of Independent Scientologists seems almost inevitable!

        • Cat Daddy

          Mike Rinder is commenting favourably And he is smart, so what is posted will not hurt Mosey’s case I suspect

        • MaxSpaceman
      • D.Y.G.

        It definitely looks like he’s gone off the rails, but I can only think there’s a reason why he’s writing such provocative things. I think he’s intentionally trying to goad Miscavige into doing something.

  • Baby

    I love this one… Perfect for today

  • Cat Daddy

    Forgive me for posting unrelated content
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0GjZctnIE4

  • 3feetback-of-COS

    Every time there is discussion of BTs, it reminds me of an old TV commercial — I think it was for some over the counter medicine. Anyway, it was real clever and imaginative: They put faces on each of some guy’s internal organs, and these organs would be talking and arguing with each other — it was a riot.

    Anyone else remember that commercial? maybe from the ’70s?

    • Great White Clam

      lol

      Wasn’t that the one where some asshole says, “……………………………….

  • Captain Howdy

    Oh noes, American icon Shirley Temple has passed.

    Wake up scilons and stop playing make believe.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1r4bbgv1If8

    • 3feetback-of-COS

      I’d bet 95% of them have no idea who she was. Bubbleheads!!

    • Sarah James

      🙁

    • I heard about that this morning 🙁

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Shirley Temple Black was the kind of person with the kind of accomplishments that the IAS Patrons in their whale pods only dream of being and pretend to do. Shirley was one of the first spotlight women to talk about breast cancer in the 70’s at a time when breasts were a four letter word on TV.

    • jeff

      Yoko Ono, age 3, winning a Shirley Temple look-a-like contest in Japan

  • 0tessa

    Did I understand it well that David Mayo found these bodyless thetans in the mind of Hubbard while auditing him? Does not suprise me. He would have found anything in that mind, so rich in fantasy, science fiction etc.
    But a big mistake was made by supposing that every person has these body thetans. That is the big mistake, or, the unique selling point, depending how you look at it.
    But it confirms for me the conclusion I made earlier that Scientology is all about Hubbard’s mind and nothing else, or Hubbard’s ‘bank’ in Scientologese. Or even better, Hubbard’s madness.

  • MaxSpaceman

    The discoverer of body thetans — the souls/spirits/life-force of dead aliens from 75 planets of the Marcabian Confederation — also took care of radiation sickness and vision problems requiring glasses:

    It was my responsibility
    that this world got itself an atom bomb, because there were only a
    handful of nuclear physicists in the thirties — only a handful. And we
    were all beating the desk and saying “How wonderful it will be if we
    discover atomic fission.”– Dianetics (1952)

    You are only three or four hours from taking your glasses off for keeps. — “Eyesight and glasses” in Dianetic Auditor’s Bulletin Vol. 2, No. 7, (January 1952)

  • Great White Clam

    “Radiation is apparently enormously water-soluble as well as water
    removable. According to researchers, one merely has to take a hose to a
    building surface or a road to wash the radiation off of it. This factor is
    well known to defense trained personnel.”
    – L. Ron Hubbard, Clear Body, Clear Mind, page 47

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      Makes sense. After they hosed down Chernobyl, everyone moved back in a week later.

      • cs sarabia

        That’s probably what they did to the homeless people in Japan who were recruited from train stations, park benches, etc. for an important minimum wage job — helping clean up Fukushima It’s a good thing LRon was able to provide the science for them.

      • DodoTheLaser

        Yep. I wonder if they sell Niacin flavored ice cream in Chernobyl. Umm.

      • Nicolas Gago

        Actually they have made canals like in Venice, so water is always there to defend the city
        GO WATER!!!

    • kemist

      This statement perfectly demonstrates Dunning-Krugger’s Law :

      The more stupid you are, the more you catastrophically overestimate your knowledge of a subject.

      This one statement has so much fail into it that it falls in the “not even wrong” category.

      • Mooser

        “The more stupid you are, the more you catastrophically overestimate your knowledge of a subject.”

        I find that as I get stupider, what I catastrophically overestimate is somebody else’s knowledge of a subject, but it was nice of you not to put it like that.

    • ze moo

      Civil Defense info and training during the 50’s and early 60’s was wide spread in the US. Look around at all the Civil Defense shelters still around. All stocked with 60 year old crackers, 1950’s geiger counters and emergency toilets.
      Washing off buildings and people would get rid of radioactive particles that fallout would leave. It was a quick way to get the radiation down. Radiation does not wash off, the fallout particles that are radioactive can wash off, but the radiation remains. Lrooon, you didn’t pay attention in ‘Duck and Cover’ class.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89od_W8lMtA

    • Espiando

      If I wasn’t living in Siberia On The Lake, there wouldn’t be a single intact pane of glass in my apartment right now.

      If Downvote Dumbass wonders what makes me protest if Disconnection or forced abortions don’t move the needle, it’s statements like this and everything in All About Radiation. It’s an insult to the science I have my degree in, it’s an insult to all science, and it’s an insult to logic, and it’s one of only a hundred moronic statements he makes in this vein. And there are people who believe this to be fact. That’s why the philosophy needs to be expunged.

      • Cat Daddy

        upvote

      • Mooser

        Well, if you don’t want your arteries snapping like pipestems (you know, those long ceramic pipes, sort of “Dutch”? The stems snap) avoid the comment sections at R&R’s!

        • Cat Daddy

          Hey you fuck “We” dutch won medals in Russia

          • Mooser

            Look, they’re great pipes, but the stems are easy to snap.

        • Espiando

          Well, Marty and Mike are letting more entheta about Hubtard get past the radar with each passing day. A lot of the diehards are congregating at the South African blog, because scnafrica wants to have a hugbox for under-the-radars to go to in order to have some support. So, nothing negative about Hubbard is allowed, and he very visibly censors the stuff if someone writes something about it. The Formosts and Ronnie Bells of the world have a place where they can soak in their warm delusions.

          • Cat Daddy

            I never believed Mike Rinder believed, He had an OT8 mother. When she past away he “changed”

          • Cat Daddy

            Marty had a more fundemental change around the original OT8 jesus was a pedophile thing 2-7-2013

          • OrangySky

            Yes, both Marty and Mike have openly corrected a few believers who have falsely claimed grandiose stuff about Hubbard. But neither one is coming out all the way – they may never leave, or they may be waiting until COB is taken down and all the dust settled. Under the radars need to feel safe to be able to become Indies, and Indies need a safe place to land while they sort out how much CO$ they’ll take with them when they go. Marty and Mike are both well aware of that which is why they’ve been so effective.

            But it’s statements like that radiation bullshit that make me feel sorry for those who still worship at the Hubbard shrine. Not the ones who just say, “Gee, I love auditing, it makes me feel great” – because a broken clock is right twice a day and Hubbard stole some interesting ideas, like auditing. I can see auditing as “working” for some people in a therapeutic/metaphorical way and that’s great. The Indies who hang on to the Hubbard the Genius stuff and simply refuse to look at the facts are just sad. But then there are still Southerners who refuse to admit that the Civil War had anything at all to do with slavery.

            • Mooser

              On the other hand, wouldn’t it be just great for DM’s equanimity if he thought Rathbun and/or Rinder were going to form a Reformed Church of Scientology? Or that a Reformed Church of Free Scientology might spontaneously form around them or one of them.

            • Espiando

              This is what we thought might happen a year and a half ago. However, Marty’s now denied Hubbard, Lord and Savior, and Mike’s never been one for that (at least not since he and Christie were officially able to tie the knot, something the Scilons went out of their way to prevent). It would have been lulzy to see it happen, but I guess we can’t have it all.

      • Eclipse-girl

        Science, it was something Hubtard never grasped.

      • Mooser

        I had my doubts at first, Espiando, but I am rapidly coming around to complete agreement with you on this. Those down-votes are personal. Somebody is trying to send you a message.
        I always try to think of the down-vote symbol as a ‘smile’, which helps.

        • Espiando

          Well, I have a message for them: they eat the pussies of corpses and drink warm pus straight from the bubo. Now let them deny that.

      • Sandy

        Upvote for “Siberia On The Lake”

      • Jimmy Threetimes

        They keep doing it because you keep acknowledging it and reacting to it. It doesn’t really matter which coward is doing it. They will never come out and confront you. Stop playing their stupid game and they will move on to someone else.

        • Espiando

          Not true. They did it when I wasn’t reacting to it. They’re just butthurt because I don’t regard Disconnection and white slavery with the moral outrage that they consider “proper” to give it. Fuck ’em. I get more lulz telling them that they practice necrophilic oral sex.

    • OrangySky

      Oh geez.

      Facepalm.

  • Galactic Patrol

    A kind of long comment here on OT V and the OT levels in general. Finding out what these things consisted of was one of the final straws that broke my belief in Scientology as a subject and made me wake up to the fact that it is a long con. I know there are people who believe that the OT levels are real and I’m not here to denigrate their beliefs or make them feel bad for having them. People can believe whatever they want. But I don’t believe them and I don’t believe they even make any sense.

    From the first day in 1985 that I listened to RJ 67 (where Hubbard announces OT III and leaves a big mystery about it) I was stuck like glue to wanting to know what OT III was all about. For all the years I was in, including the brief period when I was a Registrar at AOLA, I never was told what was on them. It was all hush-hush confidential, knowing looks and mysterious smiles from anyone who had done them. They would tell you over and over again that you’ll never guess, the data is inconceivable and beyond your frame of reference and you’ll just have to do them. And NOTs – the big daddy – is touted as “Living Lightning” and is supposed to make you “Cause over Life.”

    And of course there is the persistent idea, straight out of Hubbard’s mouth, that if you are exposed to this material before you are ready for it, you will literally get sick and die. Not a light sentence for failing to adhere to the security policies!

    So imagine my surprise when I finally got up the nerve last year to download these things and read them. I already knew the organization itself was corrupt and I figured I had nothing to lose as I was probably never going to be able to do them within Scientology. And at that point I’d read enough blogs and enough comments from others about the OT levels to know that no one ever got sick or died from reading them.

    I was shocked not only at how stupid the material was, but also struck by its radical inconsistency with the lower Bridge (all the data up to Clear). It was night and day, totally incompatible one to the other. If you skewed your head 90 degrees and sort of knowingly forgot about half of what you knew, then maybe the data about BTs can make some kind of sense. Plus there are all the internal inconsistencies and illogical points. Like if bodies are made up of BTs and you audit them all out and your body is transparent (to you), then what happens when you drop your body and pick up another one? Is that new one made up of a bunch of new BTs that you have to audit out all over again? And if not, and you are carrying all these BTs around with you as a spiritual being, then why wouldn’t you be aware of these things when you don’t have a body and shed them then? Just one of many questions I was asking myself.

    So with this final “technical question” resolved for myself, I had no further questions about whether I was making a mistake or not to leave the Church behind. And thank god I found out about all this before I sunk tens of thousands of dollars into this nonsense!

    • 3feetback-of-COS

      Amen!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Know how you feel. Hey, is it healthy, logical, sane to scream at ashtrays, even as just an exercise to increase your level of intention power? This is why I say to Indies, get an education in the field you are interested and work it all out. Even on something simple as Objectives, or TR’s, scientologists do not have the requirements to diagnose if their customer actually needs a doctor. Commanding someone to walk over to a wall and touch it, sure it’s lame and tame.

      But making them do it over and over and over, especially if the customer is in need of psychiatric treatment, or maybe an MRI to check brain abnormalties, can lead to real harm. It’s all really nonsense. But the lower level stuff is the what the retail marketing departments refer to as “loss leader” items. You peered into the OT maze without the buffer zone of ethics enforcement and peer pressure. That’s a room with a whole different view. Sorry for your shock. It’s a real bitch of a traumatic moment, so I do not take it lightly. Glad you didn’t go broke to find out the truth.

      • OrangySky

        Someone way back on the VV blog wrote “It’s the cheese in the mousetrap.” The exercises of the TR’s seem very self-helpy and not unlike some of the other self-help therapies of the ’60’s and ’70’s…and while it’s clear they are trance-inducing and the key to early indoctrination, I (as a never in) can totally see how they might make someone more focused, or less shy in a public situation, or more willing to be assertive in asking for what he or she wants.

        It’s just astonishing to me how these exercises play into the long con – the use of “success stories” to reinforce “wins”; the immediate regging while a person is still in a semi-trance state; the whole idea that you can’t discuss your ‘case’ or the ‘tech’ with someone else (so no comparing notes about what really worked and what didn’t.) LRH was not a scientist or a humanitarian, or an intellect of any kind. But he WAS genius at manipulation. Even before he came up with the OT levels, he was laying the groundwork for his converts to follow him wherever he chose to take them – be it a room full of ashtray screamers or distant guh-lax-ees full of space wars and body thetans.

        • Cat Daddy

          “The exercises of the TR’s”

          Pavlov

          • OrangySky

            Stop drooling, Cat Daddy 😉

            • Cat Daddy

              onley over you

          • Panopea Abrupta

            Rings a bell

            • Cat Daddy

              lol, an educated one

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          It can be taken to extremes and I’ve seen that happen. You’re right, though that this was all part of the games people played in the age of no cable, internet and 3 channels on TV. And yes, he learned from others how to fool people. His strongsuit.

    • Drat

      When I first read OTIII (without the benefit of any previous auditing) I thought it was a hoax. I didn’t believe its authenticity until I saw the scanned paged with Hubbard’s handwriting, and later on some court documents where part of the text was reproduced.

      I’ve read a lot of brilliant science fiction. That was anything. but. brilliant. science. fiction.

      • Mooser

        And you feel all-right? Pulse, steady? No spots before your eyes?

        • Drat

          Never better!

          • Mooser

            It’s a miracle!

            • Drat

              I’ll write my success story right away. In return I’d like one of those nice shiny certificates, please!

            • Mooser

              Actually, I think both your tone and your status have been raised. And if they haven’t, they should be.

      • EnthralledObserver

        LRonny’s OT-fiction has PLOTHOLES!

        • Missionary Kid

          Plot holes from the asshole.

    • Barbara Angel

      Well Done you’ve finally been able to see the scam for what it is. And this is yet Another Victory for the ***INTERNET***. At this point in time the Internet is an incredibly valuable tool and saving good people from McSlappy and his gang. No wonder McSlappy hates the *Freedom* people have to search the net and uncover his vicious; Criminal & ridiculous scam. No wonder that little Oompa-loompa has an Orange face, his apoplectic rage at a lack of fresh meat has turned him orange. And a wonderfully happy; prosperous, healthy life to you. You’ve got so many good things coming your way, breathe and enjoy. You and all the other Good people certainly deserve every good thing.

  • Cat Daddy
  • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

    Alexa update for Feb. 11: *refresh for images*

    Tony: US rank #15,847 – up 219 from yesterday.
    Scientology: US rank #42,657 – up 1,115 from yesterday.

    Difference: 26,810 – 896 less than yesterday.

    • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

      Here is an update on search traffic from Google Trends for the last 30 days, up to and including Feb. 9: *refresh for image*

      • aegerprimo

        The peak must be people curious and visiting scientology dot org because of the Super Bowl commercial?

        • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

          Well, they are googling Scientology, but not necessarily visiting their website, as the Alexa update above is showing.

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      Up 1,115 ranks from yesterday? What are these Indian clickers doing, don’t they know there is a tiger that is going to eat them?

      • Captain Howdy

        Good job Tiger. S/he just needs to eat a billion more to be safe.

      • aegerprimo

        The Co$, home of false statistics and stupid math.

      • Missionary Kid

        In the range where Co$ is, it’s easier to jump up and down on a daily basis. To accurately see what the actual count of people accessing the website, you’d need an actual count.

        My sense is that the ratio of people clicking on Tony’s site is as much as (using the correct mathematical term) and order of magnitude higher. That is, 10 times as high.

        • Jimmy Threetimes

          Thx I’ve always wondered what order of magnitude means. Too embarrassed to look it up.

          • Missionary Kid

            Just to make sure, I checked, because that was from memory. Yup, it’s a rough approximation of a comparison between tow numbers by the power of 10.

            For instance, 50 is one order of magnitude greater than 5. 500 is two orders of magnitude greater than 5

            One thing to be aware of is that 30 is considered to be the same order of magnitude as 5 because it is not at least 10 times as great.

  • Eclipse-girl

    Today is Vanity Fair for me. Went out and bought the mag this morn. It hit news stands today.

    Questions
    It states the Shelly was perhaps as young as 12 when she became a Messenger, but someone else claimed to have seen her in a Clearwater HS yearbook. Most people enter HS at age 13 or 14. Which is correct?

    It states that Shelly’s older sister Clarisse also joined SO (became a messenger?), at the same time

    Is Clarisse Shelly’s only sibling? Is Clarisse still in?

    • EnthralledObserver

      Not sure where I read it, but the other day I read something that indicated Shelly took time out to go to school and was apparently there long enough to get her picture taken for the year book.
      Perhaps she was in the ‘Cadet Org’ and then left before returning to the regular SO? (just a guess – I don’t even know if Cadet Orgers can be Messengers).

      • Eclipse-girl

        Tony O had stated Ned made a few mistakes. This could be one.

        It states

        “She became a messenger in the early 1970s, when she was around 12.

        Shelly’s father, Barney, was a handyman who struggled to find work, according to the Headleys; her mother, Flo Barnett, had emotional issues. Such was the couple’s faith in Scientology that they left Shelly and her older sister, Clarisse, in Hubbard’s care.”

        Shelly was the youngest messenger on board.

        TY to Claire and Marc, Mike Rinder, Dylan Gill and everyone else for cooperating with Vanity Fair to get more light on this issue

      • aegerprimo

        Commodore’s Messengers are part of the Sea Org, and she would’ve signed a Billion-Year-Contract to become one. The messenger’s were young, teenage girls mostly aboard the Apollo from what I read in Bare Faced Messiah, and Messiah or Madman.

        If you read Jenna Miscavige’s book, Beyond Belief, she signed her Billion-Year-Contract at about that age.

        I was in the CMO (Commodore’s Messenger Org) and joined when I was just barely 20. That was the mid 1980’s and Messenger’s were not just LRH personal assistants at that point, following him around with ash trays and such.

        • EnthralledObserver

          That contract is dangled early for some though, right? Didn’t Jenna sign her first one at about 7 years old? Essentially what I gather is that you have to sign it to become a Sea Org member, yet you don’t have to ‘officially’ join the SO to have signed it. Though of course the expectation that you eventually will is the point of it… and even part of the indoctrination to ensure that you make that decision in the long run.

          • aegerprimo

            Yes, from the stories that I have read, that seems to be the case. I have no personal experience with it though. When I was in the CMO, there were a couple of teenage girls that were in… they were about 15-16 years old. One girl had parents who were in the Sea Org, and the other girl grew up in Scientology. IIRC, the latter quit U.S. public school, High School to join. The other went to a Cadet Org type Scientology school in Clearwater FL, near Flag.

          • Ardent

            Yes, I recall Jenna signed at a very very young age. It disturbed me.

            • Eclipse-girl

              What 7 yr old is legally allowed to sign a contract?
              What 7 yr old really understands the magnitude of 1 billion (i know its a farce)?

              It is criminal

    • aquaclara

      Shelly is in fact in the Clearwater High School yearbook for her sophomore year, 1977. The other names that are listed in the yearbook next to her that year show up in the 1979 Clearwater High yearbook, too, as seniors, which I have seen myself.

      She would have had time from May to August, when school was out, to serve as a Messenger, plus during the regular days before and after school. Plus, consider that she did not attend that school for very long.
      Scientology was new to Clearwater then, so the Scilon schools and even perhaps the Cadet Org did not exist at that time.

      Also, the high school was on double sessions at that time; she would have been in school for only a half day, far less than the typical school day as we typically think of it. Clearwater and surrounding areas in the county were undergoing great growth, and new high schools were being built to fit the number of students. But until the schools were done, Clearwater for several years ran two shifts of school during the day.

      • Eclipse-girl

        I am as old as David. 1977 was my junior yr in HS. Other accounts have him leaving HS in 1976.
        Since 1977 was her sophomore yr , I a tad surprised, but it could be for numerous reasons.

        According to the VF article, Shelly is 9 months younger than David. So her birthday would be around Jan 1961.

        I am wondering if maybe Shelly attended HS for a while in her sophomore yr, and then joined SO and the messengers. Class pictures are usually taken in the fall. That would place the photos in fall 1976, and Shelly would have been 15 yrs old.

        That does conflict with the article using the phrase “the early 1970s.” To me, 1976 and later are mid to late 1970s.

        I am obsessing over details. It may mean nothing to others, but I like accuracy.

        I highly doubt that once shelly was in the SO, and a messenger, she would have been allowed to leave to attend school. I have never heard of anyone being allowed such ?privilege.

        • aegerprimo

          Probably not. Public schools are “wog”, and you know what Scientologists think of anything “wog” (not Scientology). Learning LRH study tech is considered more valid and makes people literate (cough gag). Going to public school while being the Sea Org – I believe – would not have been allowed, unless it was for PR purposes (to make the cherch look good for whatever reason since Flag was new and the Co$ had not taken over Clearwater FL yet).

          • OrangySky

            “Learning LRH study tech is considered more valid and makes people literate (cough gag)”

            You said it. More “literate”? Yeah, I really want to go to book club with a bunch of Scientologists. Spend every session discussing books by the same verbose and ignorant author.

        • aquaclara

          Well, I do recall that pictures, other than senior year portraits, were taken in the fall in Clearwater. That was the last year I recall hearing any Scientologist attending Clearwater High. But of course, the cult kept many things secret, so there may well have been kids in school over the years. The secrecy is only being undone now. Here.

          This was the last rumor I had heard about a cultie attending school at CHS. Others have said that Marc Yager also attended for a year.

          Sadly, Shelly missed the jr and sr proms, Grad Night, and all the activities that most of us count as key memories from our high school years.

          Not only has her adult life been crap, but so was her childhood.

          • Eclipse-girl

            (Psst : I missed both the Jr Prom and Sr Ball in my HS. I may be a bit twisted but I think I turned out OK. I feel for those who lives peaked in HS.)

            My Senior portrait had to be taken in the fall. UGH I hate that photo.

            Interesting that there are rumors of some people being in SO and yet attending school. Another rabbit hole to investigate.

    • grundoon

      Shelly was a messenger on the Apollo with LRH, before the Sea Org came ashore at Clearwater.

      The Sea Org kids might have been sent to school to forestall some kind of government flap until the Chruch was able to establish whatever legal cover they needed to avoid oversight and dodge the truancy and child abuse laws.

      Wasn’t Mike Rinder in that group? You might try asking at http://www.mikerindersblog.org

      • Eclipse-girl

        Mike was kind when I was trying to get information about Nadine Davis, Tommy Davis’ first wife.

        I will go that route in a day or two.

  • IBBy

    I just have to remember that once a person gets to this point, they’ve already been sold a bridge, drank a tanker of koolaid, and and had their head so deep in the sand they’re farting the Sahara. Thats the only way they can buy into it at this point. Its amazing how pliable to manipulation the mind is

    • domitare

      Hindsight is *always 20/20

  • EnthralledObserver

    OT5… I have one word for it: Huh?
    ‘Huh’ costs nearly $30 000…
    Heh…

    • Espiando

      There’s something that beats that. The Honda Accord Crosstour costs nearly $40000 (US), and “Huh?” is just about the nicest thing you can say about it.

      • Cat Daddy

        upvote

      • EnthralledObserver

        Given that, I hope you haven’t bought one already… 😉

        • Mooser

          I was going to warn him not to buy it, too. I don’t think he would like it.

          • Espiando

            I do own a Honda, but ’tis not a Crosstour.

            • StatusLevelUp

              There may be a new Honda NSX coming soon…

            • Espiando

              Yeah, but it’ll be an Acura in the US, and if you want to go upscale Japanese, you get laughed at if you don’t buy a Lexus.

            • StatusLevelUp

              You’re right, but that’s for status people, not car people… fuck status

            • Sandy

              Espi. I don’t get why you care. It means nothing. Ignore and continue to post smart “stuff”. Best revenge.

  • ihatescientology

    RIP Suzan. My sincere condolences to Matthew and all of her family. Life is so hard.

  • media_lush
  • MaxSpaceman

    Millions can’t wait to take the Philadelphia Doctorate Course of L. Ron Hubbard. I love the pursuit of higher mathematics. And can’t wait to get where Hubbard got. To gain certain knowledge such as this:

    Rate of change is this mathematics known as Calculus. … Now I hope you understand this, because I’ve never been able to make head nor tail of it. It must be some sort of a Black Magic operation, started out by the Luce cult — some immoral people who are operating up in New York City, Rockefeller Plaza — been thoroughly condemned by the whole society.

    Anyway, their rate-of-change theory — I’ve never seen any use for that mathematics, by the way — I love that mathematics, because it — I asked an engineer, one time, who was in his 6th year of engineering, if he’d
    ever used Calculus, and he told me yeah, once, once I did, he said. When did you use it? And he said I used it once. Let me see, what did you use it on? Oh yeah. Something on the rate-of-change of steam particles in boilers. And then we went out and tested it and found the answer was wrong. — Philadelphia Doctorate Course, Tape #58 (November 1952)

    • Mooser

      I read all the way to the end thinking, ‘wow, this guy is good at spoofing Hubbard’! No spoof.

    • Eclipse-girl

      Is that what the lying fat bastard said????

      The derivative is about rate of change (at a specific point); the integral is about area under a curve , or volume of a solid in 3 – space.

      I am not saying that Calculus is easy, but lots and lots of people take it and pass their courses so they can become chemists, biologists, physicists, engineers etc. I had a great teacher; that helps.

      If he didn’t understand it, then why the hell was he lying about.

      (Former HS math teacher)

      • EnthralledObserver

        “Is that what the lying fat bastard said????”
        *chucklesnort*

      • Missionary Kid

        What he couldn’t understand, he either bulshitted about or said it wasn’t important.

        He must have been talking to a steam train engineer.

      • OrangySky

        He liked to sound as if he were a brilliant man of science, so he would throw around a few buzz words, a few regurgitated concepts from Reader’s Digest or other superficial source, and then he’d go on to say that [what he didn’t understand in the first place] was all wrong and that his “research” [barf barf] had discovered the REAL ‘science’ and had all the answers.

        • jeff

          Barf is the operative word.

    • aegerprimo

      I love this document – LRH’s college transcript…
      http://www.xenu-directory.net/documents/hubbard-gwu.html

      Notice that he FAILED calculus. LOSER! Really, all his grades sucked.

      • aegerprimo

        Also, I was studying engineering before I quit college and joined the Sea Org. Okay, most engineers, especially civil engineers probably do not use calculus. BUT any engineer will tell you it is part of the education in order to train your mind to solve problems – a skill all engineers need, good problem solving skills.

        • Eclipse-girl

          I am ever so grateful that my parents, my father who was an avid reader of Astounding, never fell for this crap.

          I wonder if he ever read Dianetics and then though it across the wall, or if he was exposed to some of this crap, and knew the fraud that was happening.

          • Missionary Kid

            By the time I started to read Astounding in about 1955, Campbell never mentioned Dianteics, to my recollection. Somebody will correct me if I’m wrong.

            How old is your dad? I’m now 69.

            • Eclipse-girl

              My father was born in 1920. He died in 1993

              I remember having a collection of Astounding and Analog reasonably well preserved in our basement.

            • Missionary Kid

              Because there was no mention of Hubbard or Dianetics when I read the magazine, I was surprised to learn that Campbell had even supported Dianetics, years later. It made me sad.

              At a young age, I figured out that Campbell often wrote his editorials to stimulate thinking and to poke people to read statements very carefully, because he often structured them so that anyone who attacked them was often commenting on things he didn’t write. They didn’t look foolish, they just looked wrong.

              I would have been happier if Campbell would have taken to the pages of Astounding and declared his mistake. Unfortunately, he never did.

              I was told that privately he felt giving Hubbard the guest editorial was one of his regrets in life, but that could just be an urban legend.

            • Eclipse-girl

              I would like to think that way of Campbell, too.

              He was a great editor and encouraged so many young authors.

              I do not blame Campbell. Many people fell for the lies created by the fat one. (I am fat, too) He had the brains to leave early.

            • Missionary Kid

              Amen. I just wish he’d publicized his leaving.

            • Eclipse-girl

              Me too. It would have helped others.

        • kemist

          Electronics, computer and physics engineering use it all the freaking time.

          You can’t do much circuit design without calculus and its pal, the Laplace transform. In fact it limits you to resistors only.

      • Eclipse-girl

        It is because he took and failed differential calc that the pus filled lying liar would describe calculus as “rate of change”.

        • aegerprimo

          I think he got calculus confused with thermal dynamics. Just sayin’

          • Eclipse-girl

            (Psst : did you know that those who deny evolution use the first two laws of thermodynamics – without understanding what they mean – as prove evolution could not have occurred?)

            • aegerprimo

              Don’t tell me that is included in the Creationist Museum? LOL

            • Eclipse-girl

              I haven’t watched the Ken Ham / Bill Nye video of their recent “debate”. Youtube will not allow comments.

              This is why I WANT / DEMAND that science is taught , and taught well in public schools, and I am willing to pay for it.

            • Anandamide

              + all the upvotes. (real) Science!

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              Science is taught in every public school. If you’re talking about the theory of evolution vs. Biblical creationism, that was a fight in only a handful of school districts.

            • Eclipse-girl

              NOT TO GET POLITICAL :
              ALEC (American Legislative Exchange Council) is funded by large corporations and The Koch brothers. They have worked co-operatively with AIG, and other evolution deniers to craft laws that allow local science (Bio) teachers to teach what want.

              Sorry I know this is OT. It is a personal pet peeve.
              These laws are being pushed at the state level. I know because my state has had a heavy influence by ALEC.

            • aegerprimo

              But it is not off topic… If our children learn SCIENCE in school (not pseudo-science) – it gives them a better chance to make educated decisions – real life ones as well – like to see the difference between bull-shit, and REAL research – and then maybe they won’t join a dangerous brainwashing cult like Scientology.

              (But then there will always be idiots like me who slip through the cracks. BUT it did not take long for my cognitive dissonance to start screaming at me. I did not spend my whole life in the Cult of Scientology).

            • MaxSpaceman

              How many years in, AegerP ?

            • aegerprimo

              12 total (3 in the Sea Org).

            • OrangySky

              Amazing that you’re hear and you’re so clear-headed about it all. (I miss your ESMB sum-ups on John P’s blog…I love ESMB but I don’t have time to peruse it much.)

            • aegerprimo

              I miss John P’s blog.

            • MaxSpaceman

              fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck. More than a decade.
              Your Recovery of your humanity, compassion, caring and loving is grand. And your sharing of your experience with Bunkeroos, priceless ~

            • aegerprimo

              Thank you Max Spaceman! What a sweet thing to say (blush).

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              When the Koch brothers throw a bunch of money around, it doesn’t always work. Barack Obama won a second term. Is Science not being taught your state’s public schools?

            • Eclipse-girl

              I have the Vos family coming in and pushing for vouchers. (could be the de Vos family)

              Milwaukee has had the longest running voucher program program in the country.
              When they allow they kids to be tested, they do not test any better than publicly schooled kids.

              There are schools in Milwaukee, there are some schools where all the students are voucher students.

              I am not a fan of vouchers. I would rather pay for public schools. I know that education is expensive. I want teachers to earn a decent pay. They are NOT minions, but someone who affects your child.

            • Jimmy Threetimes

              Well, I agree with that entirely, but it is way off in another direction and has nothing to do with what I said. All I was trying to point out is that even though a bunch of idiots object to the theory of evolution being taught in schools, or they want Creationist stories to get equal time, this in no way means that there are schools that are not teaching basic sciences. That’s a bit of an extreme reaction to a minor problem.

            • Eclipse-girl

              Most good science teachers can “teach the controversy” illustrating the scientific method. It just uses a heck of a lot of time, that is not always available due to covering a lot of material in the curriculum.

              It matters because the way these laws have been crafted allows individual teachers, individual schools, or individual districts to to teach creationism on a local level with protection from prosecution.
              That is wrong.

              This is getting Political and Off topic. I apologize. Public school and education are interests of mine.

            • aegerprimo

              I don’t think it you are so off topic. For example; if schools teach geology, then people would not get tricked into CRAP like OT III and Creationism – and would know the Hawaiian volcanoes were under water 75 million years ago… and humans did not walk around with dinosaurs.

            • OrangySky

              Creationism belongs in Sunday school. Science belongs in science class. If forced to teach the ‘controversy’ between the two, the answer is, “There is none.” Carbon dating rules that right out. And if Creationists want to challenge the veracity of carbon dating, then they’re challenging the basic science behind a lot more than just that process. And that’s a FLUNK.

              Now, does science – geology and evolution and other chemical and biological processes – rule out the possibility that the earth/universe was ‘created’ by some greater intelligence back somewhere in time immortal? NO! It does NOT rule that out! It certainly doesn’t prove it, but it doesn’t disprove it. So if that’s the ‘controversy,’ then by all means teach THAT. Forget the 7 day creation, 6000 year old earth, walking with dinosaur stuff – that is NOT the ‘controversy.’ (That’s as much a ‘controversy’ as “humans were descended from clams” is a controversy.) So if you want to pay respect to religious students and their beliefs, then look at the earth sciences, look at astronomy, look at evolution, and tell the students, “And some people think this was all created by God, and who knows, they may be right because science hasn’t proven or disproven that fact.” But EVEN in that case, that ‘higher intelligence’ must have put all those processes of the natural sciences in place. Because geological processes still happened and biological evolution still happened. And there’s hard evidence for that.

              Can you imagine the uproar if Scientologists convinced legislatures to teach “The History of Man” as an option in science classes? Creationism in the “walking with dinosaurs” version is essentially the same thing. And just as dangerous.

              Off soapbox now. (And caveat – I have my own spiritual beliefs that include a conceptual understanding of a higher intelligence. They are just that – beliefs. I have NO facts, so I don’t preach or argue. My beliefs are for me only. I just also happen to think science and fact trumps superstition every time, no matter what my spiritual leanings may be.)

            • Missionary Kid

              VERY WELL PUT!

            • OrangySky

              Cheers, Missionary!

            • Missionary Kid

              I’m and atheist, but I realize that if one draws a Venn diagram of religion and science, they don’t touch. They are in different spheres.

              If someone with a particular belief makes a statement about science, it can usually be proven or disproven. I find that Creationists either misstate or misunderstand the or simply won’t accept evidence about science. They, of course, have absolute answers.

            • OrangySky

              I don’t know. Einstein always said his curiousity came from wanting to know the mind of God. Perhaps that’s spirituality and not ‘religion,’ because religious doctrine doesn’t always allow for mystery. And in science, there’s still plenty of mystery to be had.

            • Missionary Kid

              Particularly, fundamentalists know, they just know. Scientific proof doesn’t make any difference.

            • aegerprimo

              When I was a (little) kid, I asked my parents how God could’ve created the universe in 7 days, and how could it be known what a “day” was until the Earth was created… They said to me; “A day to God is different to a day for us. A day to God is millions of years.”

              I do not believe in an invisible guy in the sky (God in the biblical sense). I agree with Orangy, and do believe in a “greater power” of some kind, and keep my beliefs to myself. Someday we will see the Venn Diagram with the sphere of science and sphere of religion intersecting.

            • Missionary Kid

              If you are familiar with Inherit the Wind, the length of time for a god’s day is where the William Jennings Bryant type character’s argument breaks down on cross-examination.

            • aegerprimo

              Have not seen the movie, though heard of it – about the court case of Darwin’s theory of evolution. Will see if I can find it on my Roku…
              My parents’ explanation when I was a kid worked for me. I thought it was a lot more brilliant than taking the words of the Bible literally like a lot of fundamentalist Christian’s do.

            • Robert Eckert

              From Augustine’s Commentary on Genesis: “Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens and the other elements of this world, about the motions and orbits of the stars and even their sizes and relative positions… Now it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of the Holy Scriptures, talking nonsense on these topics, and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn.”

            • aegerprimo

              Wow Orangy, I want you on my debate team.

            • OrangySky

              TY AP. Unlike LRH, I actually did my homework in rhetoric class.

            • Eclipse-girl

              OS, you and I are in agreement.

              No teacher would say that “science disproves the existence of any god or creator.”

              All teachers (should) try to respect religious diversity and not make it an issue. When teaching evolution, if there are students who do not accept it as science, there will be issues, unless the student sucks it up to pass the various quizzes, tests, labs etc.

            • MaxSpaceman

              It’s a national disgrace in a way.

            • Eclipse-girl

              To AP and You,
              Education is expensive. I grew up when the US was involved in the space race and it was politically worthwhile to put $ into education. Teachers were paid well enough that they could be the sole provider for their families.

              Times have changed. Budgets are pinched. But education is still expensive.

              Do I have a simple answer? NO. Are unions too blame? Perhaps partly but they are not the bad guys. Teachers want to teach. They want up to date material to use. They want support from the administration. Unfunded mandates from the sate and the feds are not the answer………..

              Vouchers are not the answer.
              Privatizing education is not the answer.

              ETA : I am also advocating for Phys ed and all the various forms of the arts in public schools.

            • OrangySky

              “Are unions too blame? Perhaps partly but they are not the bad guys.”

              Some unions – including and perhaps particularly teachers unions – have become corrupted over the years and are definitely part of the problem. Any organization can lose effectiveness if its structure isn’t sound or is outdated. The thing is, unions can be reformed. And as benefits etc dry up across the board for ALL unions, they’re being reformed by default already.

              But they are not THE problem. They sure make convenient scape goats though.

            • Eclipse-girl

              They were scapegoated to practical death in Wi.

              The state changed the laws for certification of unions.
              They have to have a vote every year on certification, and win by a majority of every eligible voter. (If you do not vote, it counts as a NO vote.)

            • OrangySky

              Keeping people in superstition is a way to control them. Always has been, always will be. The Koch brothers know full well what’s up with science – they wouldn’t be so rich without it. They just don’t want their congressional pawns’ constituents to know. Because the more ignorant they are, the more likely they are to believe what they’re told about the Koch brothers’ political enemies. Convince the masses there’s a God that you make in your own image – and then convince them that your enemy is an enemy of God – and you’ve made them your army for life. Just like LRH did re: himself as Source, by creating the world of SP’s and degraded beings and wogs and evil psychs.

            • aegerprimo

              Yes YES! It will help the future generations to be competitive in this modern scientific world vs joining groups like the Creationists or the Flat Earth Society – for starters.

            • jeff

              My comment appears to be eaten. Tomorrow is Darwin’s 205th birthday.

            • Eclipse-girl

              TY. The UW – Madison is having a special event at “the Institutes of Discovery” on campus in honor of Darwin.

            • kemist

              I have had a truly howling-hilarious online exchange with a creationist with that one once.

              You see, she insisted that the heart was beating “without an external energy source”. When we all started laughing at her, she demanded to know the name of this mysterious external energy source.

              I told her this mystical energy was called “food” and that one holy manifestation of it was “ceak”.

            • Eclipse-girl

              I am glad you got something to think and admit defeat. I bet the next day, the person was making the same arguments.

            • aegerprimo

              Maybe she has never heard of metabolism.
              http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/metabolism

            • MaxSpaceman

              I’m glad to have the Free Dictionary. Somehow never got there in all the linking I’ve been doing since the Interwebz were running at 300 baud modem speed.

      • MaxSpaceman

        Wow! That is a beautiful thing to see. He also flunked 1st yr German, Plane Geometry and Physics.

        ¤¤¤ FLUNK!!! ¤¤¤ Now I know where that came from, in the Training Routines. From Ron himself from his own school transcripts ! Lulz ~

        • OrangySky

          Didn’t even ace rhetoric or the short story. Which should’ve been his proper turf.
          My guess? LAZY. He was lazy and overestimated his own brilliance, even in the subjects which he could’ve excelled in.
          Story of his life. LAZY. Always wanted to take the short cuts.

          • Missionary Kid

            It’s easier to lie about something than to do it.

    • kemist

      Never seen any use for calculus, the idiot who failed it sayz…

      And ends up kicked out of an engineering program.

      Clap. Clap. Clap.

      • aegerprimo

        Yet to a Scientologist, LRH was an engineer, a nuclear physicist, and mathematician. LRH lies perpetuated by the Co$ and Scientologists.
        UGH!

      • Shirley Eugeste

        And didn’t he say in one of the recent “quote videos” that there is no such thing as failure? So I guess using Hubbard logic (up is down, etc) he didn’t fail calculus, he just decided it wasn’t worth his time. Maybe if he had just word-cleared/clay demo’d convergence, integral, and differential.

        • Eclipse-girl

          I think it was Jon Henry who clay demo-ed “quadratic equation”

          I can see drawing a picture, using Venn diagrams, but doing it in clay? UGH

          • Shirley Eugeste

            And be dependent upon (arbitrary?) final approval from some higher-up who may be a total jackass and/or despise you. Not a situation I’d ever want to find myself in.

            • aegerprimo

              Not sure what you mean Shirley?

            • Shirley Eugeste

              If you do a clay demo, doesn’t someone have to determine whether or not it adequately conveys the meaning of the word/phrase/concept in question? It’s not at all unlikely that I’m just completely wrong.

            • aegerprimo

              That is right. I never trained to be a Scientology Course Supervisor, but have spent a lot of time in a Scientology course room. I believe more important to the course supervisor is that the student achieved understanding about the concept being studied from doing the demo, and not so important that the Course Supervisor understands the concept of the demo.

            • Eclipse-girl

              I couldn’t figure out which of my comments you were responding you (damn you DISCUS)

              I totally agree that it is highly likely the person JH demo-ed a quadratic equation didn’t understand the concept and just passed him. If so, he was lucky. It is my understanding that people are so kind, nice, compassionate in scientology.

          • kemist

            I think this as well as everything else in the Hubtard “Study Hat” is designed to produce people who are incapable of manipulating the most elementary abstract concept, and therefore unable to perform in anything more complex than basic arithmetic.

            I can’t understand the people who insist on defending that stupid brain-wrecking dreck.

            • aegerprimo

              Yes kemist – the question of why to people join a cult like Scientology and “defend that stupid brain-wrecking dreck.” I learned a lot about myself from the people here at the Bunker and at ESMB. I was good at math and science, I was going to college to become a civil engineer when I got pulled into the dreck. Why?

              This past year, I read a couple of books by Dr. Janja Lalich – “Captive Hearts, Captive Minds” and “Bounded Choice”. She details the type of who is attracted to cults, the personality traits. Fascinating info. Here is her website if you are interested.
              http://www.janjalalich.com/

            • Eclipse-girl

              TY. I will put them on the list. My list has grown so long it may be a year or more before I get to them

            • Eclipse-girl

              I responded to a conversation the Jon and I were having. Can’t promise a thing.

            • aegerprimo

              Okay, I appreciate you trying.

            • MaxSpaceman

              Wow, AegerP! From Civil Engineering to Space Opera and Processing/ Training Routines/ Courses/ Whole Track. The whole enchilada. It is *so* cool you are out. And you are a Voice in the Movement. To see $cientology Inc. cease and desist from its criminal actions (fraud; harassment; malevolence; human trafficking; child abuse et al.)

            • aegerprimo

              Civil engineers do appreciate a nice bridge…

              I’m glad to be out too, and been out for a while. I’m glad to be here to experience the downfall of the Co$ with all the great peeps on the fringes of the internet!

          • aegerprimo

            WTF? I would like to know why the hell he did a clay demo of quadratic equation – since understanding of that really has nothing to do with studying Scientology.

            Eclipse Girl, you know as a math teacher, to understand math you have to DO MATH.

            • Eclipse-girl

              That is why I would assign 20 – 30 problems of various difficulties as homework. Yes you have to do math.

              JH was smart and was raised in koo-laid drinking family. He had to demonstrate that he understood the concept so he could advance further in Math?

            • aegerprimo

              Sad he has limited to being educated in a Scientology school. Imagine, maybe he could’ve been doing advanced calculus in High School instead of being restricted to clay-demoing differential equation. His teacher, or “course supervisor” in a Scientology based course room probably didn’t know squat about math.
              Where can I find Jon Henry’s story? I am not familiar with him.

            • Eclipse-girl

              I hated Diff EQs. Whish was after 3 semesters of calc. Maybe you meant quadratic equations?

              I wouldn’t even know how to start to draw Diff EQs, let alone clay demo them. I passed that course by the skin of my teeth.

              I’ll see if I can find him and ask him to tell you his story.

            • aegerprimo

              Thank you!
              And, yes I meant quadratic equations. I’m good at algebra, sucked at calculus. That’s why I chose to study medicine and now have a degree in surgical nursing. I love anatomy and physiology, microbiology, and pathology. The human body is fascinating.

            • Eclipse-girl

              yes, it is. No problem.

              Glad you found something that you like. THAT is important. I do find the body fascinating

            • Anandamide

              OTish: Congratulations on getting your degree! I am the polar opposite of you, liked biochem but can’t get passed the gross factor of humans. Working on my UG in Chemistry, because it is awesome and involves no suspect bodily fluids.

            • MaxSpaceman

              even those pesky body thetan bodies toos?

            • aegerprimo

              If auditing your body thetans made you transparent – now that would be something!
              But we know that idea was the vivid imagination of a lazy egotistical whack-job.

            • MaxSpaceman

              Jon Hendry. He’s a Bunkeroo who posts oftentimes.

            • aegerprimo

              I will keep my eyes peeled for him.

          • Missionary Kid

            Different colored clay? Snickersnort.

        • Axiom O’Brien

          Question to Ron: “What word in calculus do you not understand?”

          • MaxSpaceman

            That word would be, “calculus”.

    • Espiando

      So many walls, so few fists to create holes in them.

      • Ardent

        Arrrr! Agree completely Espi!

      • aegerprimo

        Take a chill-pill Espi – Scientology is dying. Fast.

        • Eclipse-girl

          I am impatient.

          • Axiom O’Brien

            Aren’t we all? I want all the suffering, deaths and disconnection to end yesterday.

            I keep thinking that there must be some other group of people who might benefit from the Cof$ demise who might want to help accelerate clearing the planet of scn.

            The government won’t do it. I would accept the help of any group who can help end this nightmare sooner.

        • Artoo45

          And Hubbs is still dead.

    • Suppressive Tomato

      But .. But … The PDC is home to such gems as this. (I love it when Ron gets so excited he kind of forgets you’re not supposed to tell the marks the secret of your con …)

      Caste system of Games
      Maker—No rules
      Player—Rules known and obeyed
      Assistant players—Obey players
      Pieces—Obey rules as dictated by players, don’t know rules

      How to Make pieces
      Deny there is a game
      Hide the rules from them
      Give them all penalties and no wins
      Remove all goals
      Enforce their playing
      Inhibiting their enjoying
      Make them look like but forbid their being like Players

      To make a piece continue to be a piece, permit it to associate only with pieces and deny the existence of players

      LRH, Philadelphia Doctorate Course, December 1952

      • aegerprimo

        You forgot the broken pieces. IIRC in the PDCs they were the degraded beings, ruined by psychiatry and drugs.

      • Shirley Eugeste

        Look at watch, gasp, gather things, scurry apologetically out of room, NEVER look back.

      • OrangySky

        I still think he gave away his ‘trade secrets’ as a way to show his superiority over his ‘marks.’ Con people do this sometimes – they put little ego boosts like this in their games.
        He’s saying to himself, ‘I’m telling you exactly how I’m fleecing you and you’re still buying everything I say hook line and sinker! Damn, I’m good!”

    • Sibs

      FINISH A FULL FUCKING SENTENCE, LRH! (at the second paragraph).

    • OrangySky

      Face palm. Twice.

      • MaxSpaceman

        lulz. I saw your 1st «face palm» on the ‘On Radiation’ brilliance of Eller Aitch. “I’m gonna wash that rad right outta my hair, I’m gonna wash that rad right outta my hair.” !

        And now this- his brilliance on higher math.!

        • OrangySky

          It’s just that he is so damned ignorant and makes such bullshit up on the spot, spewing it right and left – and yet he’s lauded by tens of thousands as a visionary genius. Well, some people thought Sarah Palin had a great political mind, too. So I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Saw the scientology ad on CNN, Tampa Bay region around 7:29 pm. again. I also caught it over the weekend on FX Channel. Perhaps this is part of a package deal with a minimum requirement.

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      In NE Ohio and I’ve still only seen it on YouTube. Are there no whales here? I guess it is possible I’ve simply missed it.

    • Sandy

      Hole – they show it every single damn day during either Dr Phil or Ellen here in the Twin Cities. And, their presence here is small. I don’t get it…

      ETA: I guess maybe there are a few whales here – gotta be who is keeping the huge “Science Museum” org
      open.

      • Anandamide

        I hear there are enough people to keep Key’s restaurant happy with their presence, but that’s it. I might have met a Co$ member once at the Barnes & Noble on Nicollet; I went in to buy Janet Reitman’s Inside Scientology right after it came out, and the lady at the register went from civil to icy death glare when she saw my purchase. I smiled and enjoyed the book. Neil Gaiman’s ex-wife is running the St. Paul monstrosity, but that document dump on Rinder’s website showed very, very little activity in the Cities. Not a dime raised in the three month period it documented, so maybe the org is all for show. (I hope)

        • MaxSpaceman

          It’s just like, Empty Real Estate, then, nicely kept; with just a handful of members and few people paying for auditing, courses et al. Is that how it is?

          • Anandamide

            Yes, that sounds accurate. It’s a Potemkin org.

            • MaxSpaceman

              Wow. That is amazing. Because the video and/or pics I’ve seen of the Minneapolis Idol Morgue is like, it’s a pretty excellent looking place/building. $cientology Inc.’s Minneapolis Ideal Morge, a PotemkinOrg.

            • Anandamide

              (Technically, it’s in St. Paul. Other side of the river.) 🙂

            • MaxSpaceman

              « edited for accuracy »

          • Sandy

            It’s gotta be peeps volunteering to pay the utilities. How else do they keep a building the size of the old Science Museum open???

            When I was younger, I could spend an entire day in that huge building.

            • Eclipse-girl

              Do you know when it was purchased? I swear I went there with friends when my daughter was young.

        • Sandy

          Keye’s is affiliated?

          • Anandamide

            Not that I am aware of, and I apologise if I gave that impression. The cos members are just profit to them.

      • Eclipse-girl

        You have an IDLE MORGUE in the the twin cities. Therefore you get the ads.

        Milwaukee/Racine has a ?mission. It is a real dump. Wi doesn’t rate any ads. (Not that I am complaining)

        • Sandy

          That St Paul Ideal Org has gotta be DUMP. I mean that Science Museum is HUGE!. How can they possibly even clean that building? Ever go there? I have spent a whole day wandering that place when it was open. Jeezs.

          • Eclipse-girl

            I think I did when my daughter was young with friends and their young child. It was hard to spend only so much time there.

            Its a shame the twin cities lost such a great place for children, learning, creativity . exploration etc.

            • Anandamide

              They moved it. The science museum in St. Paul is still great. Can’t wait to take my nephew there.

      • OrangySky

        Someone needs to make an anti-Scientology PSA that can run alongside it. Testimonies from exes. Hey, it’s free speech. The problem is, no one but Scientology has the bottomless bank accounts for the ad buys.

    • MaxSpaceman

      You know, thdnExist, I’ve had in the back of my mind some thoughts about C o S’s 2014-2016 communications. Buying time for slick productions in the Spot Market to ‘publicize’ $cientology, more than traditional interpretations for ad buying- selling products (attracting new members)..

      I think these spot buys are Public Relations, not advertising. They’re not selling anything– they’re promoting a better image for $cientology. That’s what the money is being spent for I think. And as a PR move, to try and improve the public’s image and perception of $cientology, these are smartly place media buys.

      Extending that ‘take’ on their latest television spot buys, there may be plans afoot to ramp up some kind of communications with the KCET Televisions Studio and Lot on Sunset Blvd. in Hollywoodland that Miscavige owns. With younger $cientologists, like E Christiansen and Ribisi and younger let’s say, and the various and sundry people in the craft unions that are $cientologists, something could be brewing using KCET.

      I’m wondering. Because I know people if they owned that property — and I’d assume Miscavige would have bought the studios with a long range goal in mind — they’d be ramping up so much production it would be like full speed ahead.

      § But then again, maybe not. I don’t live in Hollywoodland anymore, I’m in New York, so I can’t say. §

    • Missionary Kid

      Could they have bought time on the local cable provider?

  • StatusLevelUp

    Scientology is, as Grant Cordone says, the “Mack Daddy” of religions: (image, refresh)

    • Marc Headley

      I am Jesus in that picture. Seriously.

  • Victoria Pandora
    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Sounds like me before coffee.

  • Observer

    I’ve been thinking about the families of the NarCONon victims ever since reading about Suzan Holten’s death this morning. I wonder if the trauma of Hillary’s death hastened her own. Rest in peace, both of you.

    Meanwhile …

    • jeff

      Perfect!

    • SandiCorrena

      I often think that sometimes it isn’t the cancer that kills but actually a trauma which fertilized the malignant cells that would have otherwise passed through; it’s often how I think my mother didn’t survive yet I did from the very same thing. This families loss is so heartbreaking.

      • Eclipse-girl

        I am sorry for your loss. Medical treatment does improve. Early detection helps a whole lot.

      • Barbara Angel

        Good point SC. It *must* be something like that, as tooooooooo many Scientology members seem to be unable to beat cancer or should that be, *become ‘susceptible’* to cancer.
        I’m so sorry you lost your mum. Kind regards B.A.

      • Baby

        Oh sweetie I am so sorry..about your mama ( mine too) I am so happy that you are with us to share our lives..

    • aegerprimo

      That is an amazing image Obs, especially the – blood money.

      • Observer

        It’s one of CCHR’s promos. I repurposed it.

    • OrangySky

      Love it, Obs.

  • nottrue

    Louis Theroux is looking for some scientologists to interview.How about a couple of Homo Novis’s with super powers

    • Shirley Eugeste

      Must have a secret ecclesiastical significance.

      • aegerprimo

        I think those ecclesiastical hand signs must along with the ecclesiastical acronyms such as;
        YS YS YS, CICS, and YSCOHB.

        • Shirley Eugeste

          LOL! Yep, right up there with the sign of the cross and INRI.

        • Captain Howdy

          Scientology, the only religion that encourages obscenity in it’s members.

      • Sarah James

        Back at ya krusty.

        • Shirley Eugeste

          At least her purse seems to be smiling at me.

          • Brainslugged

            I think she’s turned E.T. into a purse 🙁

            • Shirley Eugeste

              Ha! You’re right. Half ET/half bog man.

              (or in this case – bag man?)

            • Artoo45

              !!!!!!!!!!!!! Phone Hoooooommmmmmeeeeee.

          • Sarah James

            Lol, it does! I did not notice krust’s friendly purse.

    • Sarah James

      These be them, for sure!

    • kemist

      Since I’ve known about them, I’ve been convinced the Cardones are the douchiest couple in the entire multiverse.

      • aegerprimo

        The other day, one of the Bunkerites called them…

        Double Douche

        • MaxSpaceman

          Touché !

        • Artoo45

          Double Douche Bouche . . . extended MC Li’l DM Hella Hole Remix.

          http://allmestup.blogspot.com/2009_10_01_archive.html

          • aegerprimo

            I love your blog Artoo, and really enjoying the Target 2 Chronicles.

            • Artoo45

              Thanks aeger. I have no idea where it’s going, but hey, it amuses me and if it amuses anyone else in the process, all the better. Writing is a blast, but it can be very time consuming. Chapter nine is forthcoming: “Death for the Dead”.

        • OrangySky

          They remind me so much of:

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wfHgZKEq68

          • noseinabk

            If only Dm and cordone knew that this is how we actualy see them…

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwFD3KVJHU8

          • Baby

            OMG yes.. Cardones actually make my skin crawl… I want to take a shower everytime I see their picture..

      • Shirley Eugeste

        Before Scientology, they were merely annoying. (So see? They’ve reached their true human potential and created a new a better reality!)

  • Cat Daddy
    • MaxSpaceman

      § Abeautiful tribute to a wonderful man. Happy 100th Mr Danny Kaye §

      • I saw him on Broadway when I was a child. He gave it all he got, performing on a broken leg, if I remember correctly.

  • Chris Bucklar

    Where has Claire gone? Bit by bit her contribution to this series has gone from complete to non-existent.

    • Suppressive Tomato

      If I understood correctly, it’s because she didn’t make it this far up the Bridge.

      • Captain Howdy

        Precisely.

      • Chris Bucklar

        I would still be very interested in her thoughts on the discussion as it proceeds. Bruce managed to take us through the original OT5 rather effectively in spite of ‘little experience’ of it.

        • Captain Howdy

          Admit it, you have a crush on her.

          • Chris Bucklar

            One of these days I shall learn how to spell a raspberry. 😛

            • Captain Howdy

              Me to, I hearsayed “how to spell a bronx cheer” to no avail.

            • Shirley Eugeste

              Well, you could try using the IPA symbol for Voiceless Linguolabial Fricative (if you could figure out how to produce it with your keyboard.

              I think that’s as close as you can get with the international phonetic alphabet, but it seems to refer just to contact between the tongue and the upper (not lower) lip. Don’t know about you, but my raspberries are strictly tongue – lower lip affairs.

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_linguolabial_fricative

            • Observer

              Perhaps a visit to the Cartoon Raspberry Museum will prove enlightening. http://www.thesneeze.com/mt-archives/cat_cartoon_raspberries.php

            • aegerprimo

              Howdy, the museum gives the spelling for a raspberry! Here it is….

              THBPBPTHPT

            • Captain Howdy

              Nein!

            • Captain Howdy

              Awesome Obs, but I’m still not satisfied. This will haunt me to the bitter end.

            • Shirley Eugeste

              Howdy Howdy… you do know why it’s called a raspberry? (Doesn’t help with the spelling, but it’s a cool factoid for dinner parties, etc.)

            • Captain Howdy

              I’ll bite..why?

            • Shirley Eugeste

              Cockney rhyming slang, of course. Fart = raspberry tart. Ever heard someone on the BBC say “Use your loaf”? Head = loaf of bread. There’s lots and lots more.

            • Captain Howdy

              Makes sense, I speak cockney fluently thanks to Jimmy Pursey.

            • Shirley Eugeste

              I think Billy Bragg may be the token Cockney in my record collection, but I’ll have to give it some thought.

              A ton (give or take) of rhyming slang has filtered into “standard” British slang (not that there really is such a thing.) Oh gosh… Are you British? Don’t want to make a total ass of myself by waxing all knowledgeable about your language. (Making the universally understood sign for lip-zipping)

            • Captain Howdy

              I’m from Frisco. Is that considered part of the United States?

            • jeff

              Not by the right.

            • MaxSpaceman

              No. Berkley and Manhattan Beach were part of the now-know-as EU.

            • Shirley Eugeste

              I’m pretty sure Berkeley is still a planet unto itself.

            • Shirley Eugeste

              Um…. You say you’re “from “Frisco”?

            • . . .

    • SandiCorrena

      IMO One is always left wishing for more Words from Claire-no matter if she just gave us the equivalent of War & Peace we’d still wish for more-such is the quality of her voice and our incredible regard for her.

      • MaxSpaceman

        She’s a special spirit no doubt. Great smile that reveals so much of her.

        • SandiCorrena

          I think she could read the phone book in monotone and still have us all teaching for tissues; she just grabs the heart in her own way.

          • MaxSpaceman

            Certain people ‘radiate’ something special; more special than charisma, even.

      • cs sarabia

        I don’t know if this conflicts with other folks’ recall/memories of Claire, but she is a damn fine critical thinker and better survivor. Those qualities both come hand in hand and I can see how she and Marc were attracted to each other and blew it all.

        I’m a “never-been-in,” so I have to admit that a lot of the posts about Scientology precepts and “catechism,” if you will, are very odd to me and ultimately blow over my head or bore me to death. (can’t deal with all of the confusing/annoying acronyms devised to do just that, not to mention the bad writing). Claire (and Bruce and Marc) just cut through it all in good, comprehensible voices.

        • Eclipse-girl

          The longer you are here, the easier the acronyms become. Most human beings learn. It is part of makes us human. It was scary for me as a never in when I was able to decipher many of the acronyms without thinking about it anymore.

          Both Marc and Claire are great at analyzing what they learned through scientology and what is reality.

          I am grateful for each and every survivor. I am even more grateful when a survivor is able to share and help us Never Ins understand

        • aegerprimo

          This should help:
          Acronym/Terminology FAQ
          http://www.xenu.net/archive/dictionary/

        • WhereIsSHE

          I’ve been around a while. Not as long as many others, but long enough to get the lingo and acronyms.. and I have a personal history of reading thousands of pages a week in my professional life (much on matters that would bore most here to tears), and I completely get what you are saying.

          I suppose that after reading so much of what he required– which is such obvious b.s.–that I so reject his nonsense to the point where my eyes just glaze over anymore.

          I appreciate the importance of going over it and having it explained, and I am grateful that someone has the tenacity and tolerance to explore it and expose it.
          But..
          I just can’t anymore.
          (Sort of similar to the way I can’t listen to Miscavige audio from the events, but am still glad that it is being watched and covered.)

          • noseinabk

            It is very hard to listen anymore. Do you notice that DM and LRH both become harder to listen to as they get older. Every year the speech patterns get more affected and pretentious?

    • Eclipse-girl

      I do not think Claire has gone anywhere. I think she bowed out due to inexperience at these levels and Bruce has some experience at these levels. Perhaps Tony O will got to Tory Christman or Karen for levels 6 and 7.

      I miss claire too. Call it a girl crush. I just want to know that she and Marc and three children are safe and loved (and have enough toilet paper)

      • WhereIsSHE

        100%

        (But I have to admit that I miss Claire’s no-NONSENSE take on everything. I miss her honesty–about having to just push through it all, no matter how nonsensical it all seemed to her, even then. I miss that a LOT. She doesn’t try to justify or wax poetic. She just lays it on the line. Such a breath of fresh air.And while it is entirely appropriate for her to step aside on matters beyond the ken of her own personal knowledge, it’s also entirely appropriate for those of us who miss her perspicacity to lament her absence. HEY CLAIRE! We MISS YOU!!!)

        • Eclipse-girl

          I admitted to my girl crush on the woman. Marc is a lucky man, and I think he knows it.

          Claire, WE MISS YOU!!!!!!! (more exclamation points are important in the tech, right?)

          • WhereIsSHE

            Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • WhereIsSHE

            And as for Marc and Claire–
            Lucky is a two-way street.
            And out of the ugly, evil, abusive insanity… a love story for the ages was born.
            The image of Claire on that bus station floor, literally fighting for her life.. for THEIR LIFE TOGETHER….
            It’s a modern twist on Romeo and Juliet.

            And I know, being married for so many years now, that every day life is not some super dramatic, endorphin-rush.
            But the fact is that most people go a lifetime without facing that kind of test of their love and loyalty.

            Women swoon over movie stars simply because they cannot discern the difference between the roles those movie stars have played vs. who they are in real life.
            Take Tom Cruise, for a great example of that kind of disconnect.

            Kirstie Alley was just on Ellen Degeneres’ show, and Ellen–famed, self-proclaimed “friend” of Leah Remini just weeks ago– was just as happy as Howard Stern to kiss Kirstie’s ass. And Ellen’s audience went right along with it, even though Kirstie eventually made a fool of herself (IMO), despite being thrown the easiest of soft balls by Ellen.

            Wait..
            Where did this start?!

            OH! Yeah!!!

            Marc+Claire
            =)

            • Eclipse-girl

              Very eloquent. TY.

  • PraiseBeToXenu

    I’m actually in Oklahoma. The home of Narconon Arrowhead. So I remember (vaguely) when the stories broke on the news regarding it. Anyway, too bad about Suzan Holten. And of course about Hillary.

  • WhamBham

    OMG….I LOOOOOVE Louis Theroux…have watched all of his documentaries…this is very good news…but I hope he stays safe doing this.

  • Sherbet

    http://celebritybabies.people.com/2014/01/03/michelle-stafford-blog-so-long-spontaneity/

    People Mag has added Michelle Stafford to its “celebrity blogger series.” Her career is zooming. That is all.

  • Spackle Motion

    I was next to big blue today and I don’t understand why the parking lot is near full. It was most of the day too. Any ideas why? I will be coming back in the next week so I will try to snap some pics.

    • aegerprimo

      Maybe they are renting it out to Hollywood tourists?

      • Barbara Angel

        Took the words right out of my mouth. Car parking fees will at least fund the toilet paper. Unless of course the Oompa-loompa gets the coins first?

      • Sibs

        Could get a lot of money doing that.

      • Spackle Motion

        Trust me, tourists are not in that area of Sunset Blvd.

    • noseinabk

      Contractors? Is it marked as private parking?

    • OrangySky

      Extras parking?

      • noseinabk

        ;-D

    • MaxSpaceman

      Oh pics ~ Pics ~ snapshots would be *so* grand to see.!!
      Like Sunny Sands in Clamwater. Photo-journalism !

    • Missionary Kid

      They could have called people in for a conference or a meeting.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      I read awhile back that they are renting a parking lot to Kaiser employees. Does anyone else remember this?
      A Kaiser patient wrote: “The Church of Scientology’s Los Angeles headquarters is located at 4810 Sunset Blvd. Kaiser Permanente’s sprawling Los Angeles Medical Center occupies a string of buildings from 4700 Sunset to 4950 Sunset, with the Church of Scientology smack dab in the middle.”

  • MaxSpaceman

    Uhm… there *are* a lot of critics of $cientology here. In the Cult, L. Ron Hubbard has the reputation of a kind of papal infallibility jes’ sayin’ so uhm:

    “Now, get this as a technical fact, not a hopeful idea. Every time we
    have investigated the background of a critic of Scientology, we have
    found crimes for which that person or group could be imprisoned under
    existing law. We do not find critics of Scientology who do not have
    criminal pasts. “Critics of Scientology” (5 November 1967)

    “The alleviation of the condition of insanity has also been accomplished now” — L. Ron Hubbard, “Psychosis” (28 November 1970).

    I think Ronbo Hubblard disproved that for the next 16 years of his life until he dropped dead full of Vistaril and telling Sarge he still had a bunch of body thetans left in his caboose.

    • MaxSpaceman

      ..

      • Shirley Eugeste

        And evidently unfamiliar with the use of sarcasm as a rhetorical device in response to patently absurd statements. Good at memorizing scripts though, or at least a catalog of phrases. And good at strategically overstepping the boundaries of polite discourse, forcing an interlocutor to be impolite in response, or to give ground.

        Is it just me, or is it creepy to think one’s spouse would boast of knowing “every inch” of one’s body? That’s some mighty attentive… er…. attention. Seems like it would kind of take the fun out of connubial bliss if there was a check list and a clipboard involved. But hey, we know how Scientologists feel about their stats.

        • MaxSpaceman

          Each one of them said that phrase. Each wife knew “every inch of his body” (her spouse’s body). A phrase drilled by OSA Operatives, drilling the ex-wives over and over. Again and again. To rip there ex’es. To Dead Agent those fuckers (their ex-husbands).

          Such sad, pitiful, heartless, soulless women. Truly lost souls full of hate and fury. Because their chosen ‘belief system’ does not deliver as promised. How bitter they are. You can see the reeking bitterness on their faces, in their eyes.

          Pathetic.

          • Shirley Eugeste

            I must have missed that part of the bright ‘n’ shiny TV ad where it talks about forsaking all vestiges of individuality and becoming a tight-ass automaton corporate mouthpiece.

          • Sydjazz

            Sea hags

      • Sydjazz

        Eww sea orgy’s

    • valshifter

      “Now, get this as a technical fact, not a hopeful idea. Every time we have investigated the background of a critic of Scientology, we have found crimes for which that person or group could be imprisoned under
      existing law.” how convinient for him to point the finger to someone else, how about scientology itself?

    • Sydjazz

      A paypal infalability? Hehe

  • Sejanus

    All this Scilon training is missing one element….you have to be on some serious drugs to see some of this nonsense…lol

  • Pierrot

    For the last 2 days 3 of my posts have disappeared, after investigation in my profile -> your activity I have discovered that these posts have been “marked as spam”.

    I suppose one can do that kind of thing by using the “flag as inappropriate” facility at the far right of the post’s headings. (I am not sure, I did not try it). Disqus does not notify that this is happening.

    {I wonder who would do such a thing and why ?}

    This is more reason to visit at WWP : https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/taking-down-co-on-craigslist-co-ads-on-craigslist.113779/page-49#post-2418769

    • OrangySky

      OSA does this a lot with posts like Flagging posts or info that they don’t want out there.

    • Sibs

      Well, I saw your post with all of the listings until I refreshed just now… But it was there!

    • Freethinker

      I went to the link and spent an hour flagging (while listening to great music). Done!

    • grundoon

      Your post hasn’t disappeared. In my browser it shows up as “This comment is awaiting moderation. Show comment.” When I click “Show comment,” the browser displays your comment, just like any other comment.

      I notice your comment has lots of links. Disqus is programmed to be suspicious of comments with lots of links, because spammers often try to post links to their spam sites. Your post probably was flagged automatically by the Disqus spam detector, to ask for a human (that would be Tony or tikk) to review the comment and decide whether to let it go through. Disqus tries to err on the side of caution, otherwise we would be flooded with spam.

      What’s more, the links you are posting actually are links to spam. The Disqus antispambot isn’t smart enough to understand why you are posting so many links to spam on Craigslist. You want readers to go visit the spam to flag it as spam and get it taken down. A Scientologist might post the exact same links because they want readers to go read the spam and buy Scientology services. You can’t expect a mere machine to know the difference.

      Tony and tikk could spend their occasional few moments of leisure to review the comments flagged by the spam detector and save us the trouble of clicking “Show comment.” Or better, they could step away from the computer, watch the sunset, walk the dog, pop a cold brew.

      • Pierrot

        Thank you grundoon,
        if that is so they must have changed the parameters recently, ie numbers of links, I will try another posting later with less hyperlinks and follow up links.
        I appreciate that you took time to reach for me and explain.

      • deathtoallpoliticians

        grundoon, but you have yet to explain how others have posted about co$ cl activity with a bunch of links without any trouble. specifically, deelizabethan, as well as others that escape my mind at the moment, has provided many posts with tons of links with no problem. that said, how do you account for this? cheers!

        • grundoon

          Disqus seems more successful than most at keeping spam out. How it works is a mystery. If an antispambot is consistent and predictable, it becomes ineffective, because spammers quickly figure out how to get around it.

          My advice (not guaranteed)…

          1. Keep fingers crossed when clicking “Post.”

          Also: 2. Not too many links. 3. Put in some commentary along with the links.
          4. After posting, wait for a minute before you click “Edit” to fix typos or whatever. 5. If there are many links in the comment or even one image or video, resist the urge to edit. 6. Avoid adding links in an edit. 7. Don’t hold breath while “awaiting moderation.” 8. Keep fingers crossed when clicking “Post.”

          • deathtoallpoliticians

            greetings, grundoon. your earlier personal attacks against me and my family have not restrained myself from thoroughly enjoying your comments above. thank you for the chuckle. cheers!

            • grundoon

              Hi death, My criticism was not directed at you personally, and certainly not at your family, but at the indefinite category of fragile flowers whose day is ruined by a downvote. In the event you include yourself in that category, I acknowledge your daring in posting on a fringe of the Internet where downvotes fall on righteous and sinners alike. May your future hold plenty more cheers and chuckles.

  • Pierrot

    I forgot to mention, people in Chicago are asking me to thank you for your help, they said Chicago has been declared “Clear” once more.

  • Pierrot
    • Sibs

      I almost want to leave this one up just because I think everyone knows how ridiculous it sounds (just look at Tom Cruise).

      “Marriage Counseling (Houston tx)

      Scientology Marriage Counseling works. Find out how.”

  • deathtoallpoliticians

    greetings, pierrot! i am sorry to hear and see that the co$ and o$a are f&*^ing with your $cientology cl awareness posts. this commenting system needs to be revised so that (1) no comment is removed for being flagged prior to being checked out by mr. ortega (or the appropriate moderator) and (2) there is no more anonymous downvoting. both changes would radically alter this section for the better. i will be raising these issues with mr. ortega via email soon. i hope i have your support in requesting these changes. cheers!

    • MaxSpaceman

      Keep Bunkeroos posted as to what Tony O says or doesn’t say, eh?

    • Pierrot

      I also think that if a comment is being removed, disqus should notify the poster the same way it notifies about replies. and the reason ie this person soandso flagged your comment as inappropriate spam!

    • media_lush

      Anonymous down voting is Disqus, not Tony. It serves it’s purpose IMO, can you imagine all the sidetracked arguing if the poster knew who down voted him/her. I think a lot of people would be afraid to down vote if they knew they would get into an argument.

      • Pierrot

        Instead of down voting you should agree to disagree and state you reason.
        Anonymous down vote = hit and run

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        Media Lush, I love the little downvote for your post on downvoting, how cute… and of course ridiculous to downvote a comment on downvotes. Oh well.

    • grundoon

      If your comment goes straight to “awaiting moderation” when you click “Post,” it’s been flagged automatically by the sometimes oversensitive Disqus antispambot. It seems to happen when Disqus thinks your comment has too many links, or when you edit your comment less than a minute after posting it.

      If you’re such a fragile flower that a downvote ruins your day, the Internet is too wild for you. Does your Mom know you’re playing on her computer? Turn it off and take up Lego or embroidery. Mr. Ortega has a grownup job and doesn’t have time to kiss your booboo.

      • deathtoallpoliticians

        greetings, grundoon. my, who pissed in your corn flakes this morning? i don’t believe in ad hominem attacks and wonder why you have decided to attack me so. as i stated, i believe in an open and honest debate. such a thing is impossible if you can hide behind the wall of anonymity. now, can you make your point a little better without resorting to personal attacks against me or my family? cheers!

        • grundoon

          “i believe in an open and honest debate. such a thing is impossible if you can hide behind the wall of anonymity.”

          Some people piled on Miss Tia complaining about her obvious pseudonym… then she posted her driver’s license. Yes, it’s her real name. Same happened to Simi Valley. And even the name “little Hitler” was given to David Miscavige by his mom. So I won’t invite further embarrassment by suggesting that someone using the name “deathtoallpoliticians” fails to lead by example in the crusade to unmask the anonymous.

          “now, can you make your point a little better without resorting to personal attacks against me or my family?”

          Try this:

          If one is such a fragile flower that a downvote ruins one’s day, the
          Internet is too wild for one. Does one’s Mother know that one is playing on her
          computer? Let one turn it off and take up Lego or embroidery. Mr. Ortega has a
          grownup job and doesn’t have time to kiss one’s owie.

          Honestly I think the first version was better.

          • deathtoallpoliticians

            greetings, grundoon. your comments, once again, leave me shaking my head. i had extended an olive branch to you and it is very disheartening to see that you have not only slapped the branch to the ground, but have also failed to comprehend the meaning behind my post. yes, i do not post under my actual name. however, you can always reply back to anything i say or challenge me on any up or down vote. i am sorry that this is not how you perceive the definition of an open and honest debate. i am further sorry that my screen name has precluded you from any common sense in dealing with me as a human. i hope you don’t treat others like you treat me. disappointment all around, i guess. c’est la vie. cheers!

            • grundoon

              ” i am sorry that this is not how you perceive the definition of an open and honest debate.” Your definition would seem to involve putting words in my mouth.

              “… any common sense in dealing with me as a human. i hope you don’t treat others like you treat me.” Am I being personally attacked? I politely and helpfully explained what I know about comments being flagged automatically by Disqus.

              And I concisely expressed the reasons for my lack of enthusiasm for your proposal to “radically alter this section” with new rules of discourse that you want Tony to enforce.

              In case a lengthier explantion is needed, your proposal (1) would mean that the Disqus antispambot can’t remove spam until Tony personally reviews and confirms that the item is spam. Likewise, harmful posts such as threats of violence, legitimately flagged by the community, would stay up until Tony can deal with them personally. Both of these would be detrimental to the site and place an unwarranted burden on Tony.

              Your proposal (2) would accomplish nothing since people are already free to debate and argue contrary viewpoints in comments if they wish. Anyone who is badly upset by seeing a number beneath their comment, next to the other number, seems to me to be overly concerned with petty trivialities. Our host Tony said much the same recently.

            • deathtoallpoliticians

              greetings, grundoon. i have never personally attacked you, nor will i ever. i do not believe in such childish b.s. however, i would like to quote you on two occasions during our conversation: (1) “If one is such a fragile flower that a downvote ruins one’s day, the Internet is too wild for one. Does one’s Mother know that one is playing on her computer? Let one turn it off and take up Lego or embroidery. Mr. Ortega has a
              grownup job and doesn’t have time to kiss one’s owie” and (2) “If you’re such a fragile flower that a downvote ruins your day, the Internet is too wild for you. Does your Mom know you’re playing on her computer? Turn it off and take up Lego or embroidery. Mr. Ortega has a grownup job and doesn’t have time to kiss your booboo.” is this what you call, as you say, “politely and helpfully”? i do not share the same definitions as you for “politely” and “helpfully”, nor do i believe the vast majority of people do, either. you can continue to personally attack me as necessary if it makes you feel better. once again, i hope you do not treat others as you treat me. cheers!

            • grundoon

              Did you read the paragraph above the one you quoted? Was it not polite and helpful?

              You insist on taking offense at the second paragraph, which doesn’t even pertain to you at all, unless downvotes wound you – and if they do, that advice, though not polite, may be helpful as you’ll surely meet far worse than me on the Internet. In that paragraph I used “you” in the general sense; “one” would have been more precise although stilted.

              You say, “i believe in an open and honest debate….. you can always reply back to anything i say.” Yet you have not spoken at all to my substantive disagreement with your proposal to “radically alter this section.” I have no quarrel with you personally; it is your proposal which arouses my tendency toward colorful language. You dispute my tone but fail to address the substance. Your style of debate verges upon pettifoggery.

            • deathtoallpoliticians

              no more from me, grundoon. i am done. you may continue as long as you feel necessary. cheers!

            • grundoon

              Me too. Cheers!

  • DodoTheLaser

    Another ex-scientologist (and Tom Cruise’s ex) is flourishing and prospering.

    ‘Scandal’ Enlists ‘Homeland’ Actress for Major Season Three Arc (Exclusive)

    “Details on Boniadi’s character are being kept under wraps,
    but she will have a heavy presence in the remainder of the season.”

    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/scandal-enlists-homeland-actress-major-679160

    • Zaphod Beeblebrox

      Beautiful woman. Tom Cruise did NOT deserve a woman as fine as her.

      I’m going to go off on a tangent here, but isn’t it funny how all three of TC’s ex wives have jumped ship and left the cult? If I didn’t know any better I’d say he had something to do with it(!)

  • DodoTheLaser

    Speaking of OT 5, asking BT’s “What are you?” and “Who are you?”, reminds me of the condition formulas from the scientology ethics book – “Find out that you are” for Treason and “Find out who you really are” for Enemy.
    I’m feeling pretty translucent too.

  • Sydjazz

    I think my iq just blew trying to understand that lot. Hooray for louis theroux. He is an amazing interviewer and can completely disarm people. Would love to see him tackle some scions. 🙂

  • EnthralledObserver

    Friken snake downstairs! Why does this always happen when the blokes are away?!

    • deathtoallpoliticians

      greetings, eo! i know it is much later than your posts but i (1) hope that you are safe and that nothing happened to you or your family and (2) wish i could have been there to help you out. i consider myself an amateur herpetologist and love all things creepy, crawly and scaly! do you know what kind of snake it was? cheers!

      • EnthralledObserver

        It’s just a Python (small to medium sized)… but I don’t like any snakes. I chased it out with a cricket bat, then the dogs chased it back under the house. I locked the dogs up and chased it back out again (once I found it again perched on the wheel of the lawnmower). I hope it decided this isn’t a good place to curl up anymore, what with all the ‘chasing’ it had to endure, and left for good.
        My son probably would have got it for me (he’s nearly 12), but he was in bed already… and my Mummy protective instincts don’t like him to go near them… so I didn’t tell him.
        Neither I, nor the kids can see it anywhere this morning – hopefully it left. But thanks… I wish I could have called you up too!