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Jon Atack on Scientology’s methods of ‘thought stopping’

John_Stuart_MillJon Atack is the author of A Piece of Blue Sky, one of the very best books on L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology. He has a new edition of the book for sale, and on Saturdays he’s helping us sift through the legends, myths, and contested facts about Scientology that tend to get hashed and rehashed in books, articles, and especially on the Internet.

Jon, you’ve been exploring numerous ways in which Scientology keeps its members cut off from the world around them. What do you have for us this week?

JON: “Thought stopping” is a fundamental technique of exploitative persuasion. Krishna monks, for instance, were taught to simply chant their Hare Krishna mantra loudly enough inside their heads to drown out any negative conversation. As with other aspects of exploitative persuasion, however, Scientology excels all other cults. Not only are a series of taboos put in place between the devotee and the world, but an Orwellian system prohibits reflection upon Scientology itself.

The taboos include the strange idea that any member of a profession with the prefix ‘psych’ is part of a conspiracy to rule the universe and destroy all hope for those within it. Anyone who has met psychologists, psychiatrists and psychotherapists can see these people will never agree with either their own distinct profession or any of the others. There are hundreds of psychotherapies, from the warring analytical schools of Freud, Jung, and Adler to the tens of “humanist” therapies, existential, psychodrama, morita, person-centred and then the hypnotherapies, as well as schools like transactional analysis, which pretend not to be hypnotic, or the various dissenting schools of cognitive therapy. There is no agreement, so there can be no conspiracy, unless the tens of thousands involved in these professions all carefully maintain their animosity in public, while sitting down to entrap humanity with rose perfume behind the scenes, as Hubbard insisted in the Sea Org Hat.

In his vital list of thought reform methods, Robert Jay Lifton includes “ideology over experience.” In this phase of dissociation from reason, the individual puts aside actual experiences in favour of the thought reformer’s facile and often ridiculous claims. So, a gardener who has grown tomatoes for years on end is told by a cult leader that they grow best in sand and straw without fertiliser and will thereafter try to grow them in this impossible way, because the dogma insists that this is true. Never mind that the tomato plants never fruit. It is not because of the growing medium, but rather the fault of the previously successful gardener. Scientologists all too often simply accept what Hubbard criticised as “broad generalities” for no other reason than the belief that everything Hubbard says must be right.

Hubbard makes such belief very difficult by frequently contradicting himself, which, it turns out, is the best way to control people: give them conflicting information, and they will be paralysed and seek direction. Any Scientologist who believes in Hubbard’s infallibility need look no further than the False Data Stripping bulletin, where, despite the thrust of the bulletin, Hubbard claims that Socrates developed the syllogism, which is actually false data.

Scientologists will leap through hoops to avoid admitting the Founder wrong. When I pointed out to a course supervisor that the phrase ‘Some 14th century psychiatrists’ was a misprint for 19th century, he argued that it was a reference to Thomas Aquinas’ faculty psychology, rather than admit the obvious. He was no fool. He had a doctorate in physics and worked for NASA, but the thought that Hubbard was fallible was too hard for him to bear.

Hubbard himself urged people to check and test, but also introduced a series of measures to prevent such testing. The most potent of these is the injunction not to discuss the Technology, which is called “verbal tech.” The truth is that unless we have to articulate an idea, it often remains hazy, which becomes obvious if we are forced to articulate it. An excellent way of teaching ideas is to require that the student write them out or, better yet, deliver a presentation, as teachers usually know. It is only when you come to articulate complex ideas that you realize that you don’t fully understand them. Arguments that sound good on others’ lips can sound hollow on your own.

Add to verbal tech the injunction not to discuss your “case.” If you want to say anything about any bad feelings, you must pay for a “session,” and you cannot discuss the session itself, afterwards.

Criticism of Scientology or Hubbard is forbidden, once more limiting communication, although “more communication not less is the answer.” You are only encouraged to speak out so that you can tattle on others, in a knowledge report (a technique acquired from the Gestapo), and failure to do so carries the same penalty that the unreported person will receive.

In a subject that claims to be based upon communication, such limits are extraordinarily questionable, and lead to docile acceptance and furious defensiveness.

The great philosopher, John Stuart Mill, opposed the authoritarian regime of his time in his remarkable text On Liberty, published in 1859. Among the good advice that he offers is this, and I recommend it as an antidote to the restrictive thinking of Scientology:

“There must be discussion to show how experience is to be interpreted. Wrong opinions and practices gradually yield to fact and argument; but facts and arguments, to produce any effect on the mind, must be brought before it. Very few facts are able to tell their own story, without comments to bring out their meaning. The whole strength and value, then, of human judgment depending on the one property, that it can be set right when it is wrong, reliance can be placed on it only when the means of setting it right are kept constantly at hand. In the case of any person whose judgement is really deserving of confidence, how has it become so? Because he has kept his mind open to criticism of his opinions and conduct.”

 
——————–

Video Vault: Milestone One!

Our video source comes through again with another “quote video” made by Scientology to help sell L. Ron Hubbard’s wisdom. Enjoy “Milestone One”…

 

 
Once again we asked former International Base employee Marc Headley to tell us about this video’s production…

In this video we have an Int Base employee as the main actor. Tristan Korringa is the featured guy here. Tristan used to work in the International Landlord Office as computer draftsmen. The International Landlord Office was a bureau located in CMO International that is essentially in charge of all property and buildings for all of Scientology worldwide. I think Tristan at one point was promoted to the Int Landlord Officer and then as everyone at that place is eventually busted, he ended up in Golden Era Productions in the VFX department using his computer skills to build Ideal Orgs in the computer to do “fly through” visual effects videos. According to my latest intel, he remains in VFX to this day.

My favorite part of this video is the “walking across the desert” shots. We would drive about three hours from the Int Base to a place just outside Brawley, California for these types of shots. Imperial Sand Dunes is what the area is called and I am pretty sure it is the same place they shot parts of Return of the Jedi. I have the best video shoot story ever for this place. I actually ended up in the back of a real police car handcuffed, and that was not part of the video we were shooting! I so hope we get to that video some day so I can tell the story. Damn sand would get everywhere… Anyway, so Tristan walks over the sand dunes for an entire day and they got good 30 seconds of it into the video.

Then there are a bunch of stock shots of people walking in random cities all over the world. Near the end we have a bunch of B&W Int Base folks that just had to stand still for a few minutes and then for good measure they threw in some of those L Ron Hubbard writing with space as the background.

This was a short and sweet video shoot, maybe 3-4 days maximum. I would say the VFX shots for this video were the longest part of this production.

Thank you, Marc. And we hope we get to hear more about that arrest story!

 
And finally, Mark Bunker catches us up on what’s going on in Clearwater…

 

 
WISE BEARD MAYOR

Here’s the original Clearwater injunction he refers to in the video, and his more recent motion to dissolve it. Also, watch Bunker as he addressed the city council about the injunction.

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on February 8, 2014 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS (We read Scientology’s founding text) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25

UP THE BRIDGE (Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39

GETTING OUR ETHICS IN (Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14

SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING (Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40

 

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  • Baby

    Good Morning Bunker Buddies.. Off to work I go.. Interesting post Tony..

    John Stuart Mill was a very intelligent man. Would love to have him around today.. xo Everyone kick butt today.. I volunteered to work on Saturdays to let the youngsters enjoy their weekends.

    • Flynnie

      Ok. I am going to take a pounding for this, but I’ll take one for the team of us (and there are many) who think that all this personal stuff belongs somewhere else and only serves to dilute the valuable discussion that COULD be possible here. Most of us have to work Baby. Good on you for doing so. There. Is that enough? Now can we stop having to read about YOU every time you post?

      • 3feetback-of-COS

        I think you need to lighten up……….. or maybe get laid.

      • EnthralledObserver

        Nah… I think you need to hear about my stepson’s WifeyMakemerich. Now that story is a doozy, I tell ya!

      • EnthralledObserver

        It started almost four years ago… he met her and within two to three months had brought her up to meet us. We were very impressed at first… for she was a Psychologist, and a suburban train driver in Brisbane, owed a slew of houses, plus she had an almost three year old daughter and, at the time, was only 23. WOW, I thought… I was very impressed… but then I started thinking. If she’s all THAT… well… then what was she doing with my stepson?
        It was a fleeting thought… just a niggle in the back of my mind. Sure, I’ll give her the benefit of the doubt… maybe I hadn’t seen the full potential of my stepson to date.
        So we did… but then… more little clues started chipping away in the back of my mind… one by one…
        I caught them not very covertly looking through formal wear magazines on the second time we met her (the next day)… weird, I thought, that they were looking at what I’d characterise as ‘bridesmaid dresses’. They saw that I noticed, and later when I questioned them on that, the story I was given was that she was looking for a dress for a friend’s wedding she was a bridesmaid for – and stepson was oh so interested in what she would be wearing… did they think I was stupid? Apparently…

        • Barbara Angel

          But did you have a poo or not, don’t leave us all in suspense…..

          • D.Y.G.

            No pooping here. Shitter’s full!

            • Barbara Angel

              Well do the community thing and post the excess to Co$ in case they run out of shitty ideas on how to con people.

            • Barbara Angel

              Where is your community spirit? You could be sending all excess poo to Co$ in case they run out of shitty tactics to foist upon the innocents.

          • EnthralledObserver

            She is a piece of shit… and I’ve told her so… but that’s way further in the story. No skipping!
            😉

            • Barbara Angel

              Hahahahaha thanks EO for making me laugh & thanks for seeing my post as it was intended, just for a laugh. How’s the weather up there? Hot as hell? I Can’t handle the heat and envy those who are ‘cold’. Cool change just came in now, Yay x 1,000
              Adelaide copped it badly about a week or so ago.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Hot here too… not melting hot, but just uncomfortable. I hate heat too… however, being a Qld’er, I don’t really own appropriate winter clothing… we just tough it out… though that makes the coldest days pretty miserable. I should just buy some socks, trackpants and jumpers, eh?

            • Barbara Angel

              Socks are a good start, loved the picture I saw on this site about extra uses for socks.
              Qld’ers are terrific, I salute you. Way tooooo hot up there for me.
              If you ever come down this way for a visit I’ll lend you my Ski Parker, otherwise you may not survive. lol
              Cool change last night Yay x 1,000

        • Baby

          Hahahahahah

          • EnthralledObserver

            🙂
            On request I’ll tell further installments of the tale… LOTS of material, I swear.

            • Baby

              Oh you can continue at anytime EO..

      • Missionary Kid

        There’s a simple solution to not reading Baby’s posts. Just hit the minus sign to the left of the flag. Both are located at the far right, on the same line as the avatar name. They appear when you put your cursor anywhere on a comment.

        It’s called, facetiously “ignore tech.” I suggest you do it every time you see a comment by Baby.

        Maybe you see this blog as strictly about $cientology. I happen to see it as being about the human condition. Your mileage may vary. Perhaps it is appropriate that you have Bill the cat as your avatar picture.

        • Flynnie

          Look, I get it. Like I said, I knew I’d take a pounding. So here, I’ll play along. I’m going to do my laundry now, then I’ll vacuum the house and dust (though not in that order, because, dontcha know my momma done taught me right), then I’m gonna do my taxes, and probably pop into the office for a bit, because, man, am I buried at work. Hmm. I’d better call the vet because my dog is overdue for his shots…. Damn. Steak is not gonna defrost if I don’t get it out of the freezer. My niece just had a baby, I’d better order a gift. Shit, I just broke a nail.

          Oh, and John Attack rocks. His book is about the best you can read about scientology.

          • Missionary Kid

            The difference between your post and what Baby has been writing about is that hers is about interaction with people. Maybe you should stick to twitter?

            • Flynnie

              Not a Twit, so I’ll have to beg off. I pretty much interact with people in real life. Try it sometime.

            • Missionary Kid

              Gee, thanks for the advice. I do agree about Jon Atack because he looks at the underlying philosophies of different schools of thought and how they influence thinking.

            • Eclipse-girl

              Maybe I am too cautious, but Flynnie has less than 100 comments and tried to pick on Baby? I know that Baby hasn’t been as active since she started her job, and I miss her.

              It is impossible to tell when Flynnie started because of the privacy settings.

              It just doesn’t feel right.

            • Missionary Kid

              Maybe so. I’m not worried. I don’t think they’re a troll. I’m hesitant to pull the trigger on that designation. They’ll show their colors if they are one.

              The reason that I don’t think they’re a troll is because they expressed an opinion and were open to discussion, realizing that their opinion is just that.

              They get bored with the description of every day events. I get bored with debates over who’s a troll. 😉

            • WildaBeast

              Open to discussion, yes. But also deliberately offensive to someone who wasn’t behaving the same way toward them. “I pretty much interact with people in real life. Try it sometime.” That just bothers me, because it’s such an unnecessary thing to say, and to imply. This isn’t pro or con the troll thesis, just an observation on apparent personality.

            • Missionary Kid

              I agree. I’m not going to waste any more time on them. They weren’t able to see the difference between what they posted and Baby”s. I know, they were exaggerating, but that’s their problem.

            • Eclipse-girl

              OK, I am just very wary. Perhaps too much so.

              Look at the Down votes people are getting on this conversation.

              Down votes to not phase anyone here. We laugh at them. It is a cowards way to down vote.

            • Observer

              Flynnie has been posting here for quite awhile, though infrequently, and IMO is neither a troll nor a sock.

            • Eclipse-girl

              OK. We are all on at different times.

          • Barbara Angel

            But you forgot to mention if you’ve had your daily poop or not?

          • Qbird

            Hello there Flynnie. You made your point. That was bold of you; I admire you for it.

            You knew exactly what you wanted to say, you said it, you expressed your opinion, and as expected, you have received replies. This is all good and well and as it should be. It is a good thing that you entertain conversation here, whether it is on topic or off… yes? Occasionally I am on-topic, but mostly I am OT. For this, to you personally, I should like to apologize.

            I’m glad to hear you are well employed. You sound like a good & caring housekeeper. Pets are wonderful, you seem to be a good owner, keeping up on the vet visits and all. Yum, steak, run it under cold water, that’ll help thaw it out faster! Congrats on the new baby niece! Don’t worry too much about the broken nail now, it is of course, a renewable resource.

            I am in the middle of reading the new John Atack “Let’s sell these people a Piece of Blue Sky”. Oh yes he rocks! I am with you 100% on his writings – it really helps me to understand. It is extremely well documented & I like accurate information.

            Page 84, on July 7 from Rear Admiral Braisted, one of Hubbard’s superior officers,
            in the “Remarks” section, wrote this: “Consider this officer lacking in the essential qualities of judgement, leadership and cooperation. He acts without forethought as to probable results. He is believed to have been sincere in his efforts to make his ship efficient and ready. Not considered qualified for command or promotion at this time. Recommend duty on a large vessel where he can be properly supervised.”

            This was said about Hubbard in 1943.

            Boy that Rear Admiral surly was spot on regards what was to become the “Source” of scientology, eh?!.
            Today is a grand day Flynnie… we live!
            oh & btw, I really like Bill teh Cat – ack. ack.

            Peace to ya. Q

        • Barbara Angel

          Well said MK, there’s been a tad Tooooo Much nastiness here lately. You don’t like it, then bloody don’t read it then.

      • media_lush

        dude, you’re behaving like a cunt….. and I don’t use that word lightly (I remember the great ‘cunt’ debate of last year, Ed)

        • Eclipse-girl

          I agree with your sentiment, but can’t up vote you because of the word. I remember what happened the last time, too.

        • EnthralledObserver

          Oh… the ‘cunt’ debate… I remember it well… 🙂

      • Just Dee

        If people really believe in something, why hide under guest?

        • Flynnie

          I didn’t post as a guest. I took my lumps. I posted as “Flynnie.” You replied to “Flynnie,” which is my nic. Am I missing something?

          • Just Dee

            No, you aren’t missing anything. But your first sentence states that there are many of you who feel this way – and every like is a guest. My point is only, if you feel strongly about something then you should be able to say it, without hiding under guest. Not you per say, but you did speak for “many”.
            Have a good day – and try to ignore if something really bothers you.

      • Observer

        I don’t consider a comment on the story prefaced with a five-word farewell to be “all this personal stuff”. And the story of Chili Girl, Baby’s coworker, is on topic because Chili Girl stupidly and pigheadedly defends Scientology and LRH every chance she gets.

        • Flynnie

          Ok. I am going to bow out after this. If you want to encapsulate my response to Baby into this one comment that she made, be my guest. And Baby, unfortunately, just happened to be the recipient of my fatigue with sorting through 2K comments, 80% of which seem to be inane non-contributory comments about the the topic at hand. So, I will do what many do, and that is avoid the comment section. I enjoy your on-topic shoops. Enjoy yourselves. No disrespect. Just hoping to make it some place that all can participate without having to worry about someone ELSE’S job or life. I do enough of that IRL. Peace. And good luck with your job, Baby.

          • Observer

            I mean this genuinely and non-snarkily: I hope you have a wonderful and restful day.

            • Flynnie

              To you, as well.

          • Verve

            If you were bright, you’d just look at the lead post for each thread. Something personal- skip the entire thread. Not that hard.
            But yeah, good luck on finding a 100% on-topic forum, in any subject. Ain’t happen’. In 20 years on the internet, I’ve never found a forum that had less than 20% noise, except for very heavily moderated ones. Those just suck because the mods think the forum is about them, not the subject, and make up all kinds of silly rules. But maybe that’s something you’d like. Here, try this one out- http://www.scp-wiki.net/

          • Baby

            Thank you Flynnie.. I do

          • Barbara Angel

            That was really very nice of you Mr Flynnie. We should be saving up our vitriol for Co$ only and not each other. Better to make peace than scrap with someone we haven’t even met. Kudos to you.

      • Baby

        I respect what you have to say Flynnie..

        • Barbara Angel

          Very gracious of you, but don’t forget he may not have had his daily poo yet. xoxoxox

          • Baby

            Hahahhaaha,,I just walked in the door.. and speaking of poo..I’m Pooped : ) It’s all good..

            You know Angel we are a tight community and I understand how those who don’t post as much just want to get to the ” Good Stuff.. ” I thought it was a very honest comment..

            Unless someone wanted me to feel all paranoid and get us arguing between us.. but I sure get my downvotes.. I got a whole fan club.. ( OSA loves me..)

            • Barbara Angel

              Welcome home Baby, Tight community yes, but a tendency to attack and a tendency for certain ‘posters’ to believe they can be ‘word’ *police* of the day. Those are probably the same people who can pick a fight with themselves in an empty room. lol
              And don’t forget my forecast…. “Down Votes” are the new must have’s….Heeheehee Evil Cackle.

            • Baby

              Yep.. I have earned every downvote.. I wear them like DM wears his Fake Badges..

            • Barbara Angel

              No you haven’t, some people just get tired and cranky and others play the ‘Word Police’. No need for us to snark away at each other,
              NEW RULE: ***All Vitriol*** to be “generously”
              saved for Co$
              Why waste it on each other?

            • Baby

              No, I meant from OSA.. Baby has been everywhere commenting about Scilooooooneytunes.. Who cares.. ( Not me..ha)

              Yes.. Vitriol for Co$ absolutely

            • Barbara Angel

              Yep, but there is some ‘Undeserved’ & ‘Overt’ nastiness here sometimes and frankly it pisses me off. Some are so quick to ‘pounce on and distort’ someone’s comment and all of a sudden it’s Pack Attack time. I’ve read others comments and seen *Nothing* remotely offensive or troll like, yet all of a sudden they are Bashed as tho’ were Mustravage himself. I’d like to think that the majority of commentators would not lower themselves down to ‘Pack Attack’ level so often. I’m left wondering if it’s just an excuse to give *someone*, *anyone*….. a kicking?

      • SandiCorrena

        I hope so because I want to hear all about it-I love her posts and I would miss them. Perhaps you don’t know Baby well enough here yet but IMO she is a star.

        • Baby

          Sandi.. OMG *** Blushes..*** Damn I am ready for my Close up Mr. Deville..xo

    • Missionary Kid

      Let us know how Chili Girl does, if you see her. BTW, I think she’d do more damage to Co$ than it would to her. 😉

      • Eclipse-girl

        Now I need to find out about Chili girl.

        • Missionary Kid

          I’m willing to bet Chili girl wasn’t really much of a $cientologist. IMO, she’s a dilettante who flits from one thing to another. She sounds like a selfish, spoiled, burnout.

          I’ll bet her life history is as accurate as LRH’s according to Co$.

          • Eclipse-girl

            isn’t Squeaky is just starting in scilontology?

            I like that Baby is there to stop the dissemination of false data.

            • Missionary Kid

              😉

            • jeff

              I believe. Ms. Fromme (chili chick) was once in and is contemplating a return. She really sounds like quite a piece of work. I have known people like her in my life and they can be infuriating if you let them get to you.

              The best response for me has always been to just say OK to whatever illogical nonsense they spew and let it drop. This enturbulates them more as they really just want to enturbulate you. I figured out that it’s just not worth discussing things logically with an illogical person. However, she also shows a using people side, which Baby seems perfectly capable of stopping in its tracks.

            • Eclipse-girl

              It would drive me nuts to be working with her. I know Baby will be fine.

              She really must be difficult to be with if she is contemplating a return to the criminal enterprise.

            • jeff

              By the way, how is your sister-in-law doing?

            • Eclipse-girl

              Good memory. She starts another treatment this week. That last two treatments had been rough. She doesn’t open up to me. I am hoping she is opening up to someone.

            • jeff

              I hope she has someone with whom to open up as well. Well, my thoughts are there for her for the best. I don’t know your situation with her, but sometimes people are just waiting for the opportunity to open up.

            • Eclipse-girl

              I try. but I can’t push.

            • jeff

              Got it. Pushing the unwilling makes them push you away.

            • Baby

              You nailed her darlin..

    • D.Y.G.

      “I volunteered to work on Saturdays to let the youngsters enjoy their weekends.”

      That’s an uncommon act of kindness. Have a good day, Baby, and I hope your feet are feeling better!

      • Baby

        OMG DYG.. First thank you..My feet feel really good.. ( Although I may play up about them to get a foot rub..) ha

    • WildaBeast

      Awww, that’s about the sweetest thing I’ve heard all day! Granted I’ve been up less than two hours but it still gave me a warm fuzzy.

      • Baby

        Thanks Wilda.. Didn’t mean to brag about it.. The other dishwashers have full social lives.. and just moan when they have to work Sat. It’s just another day for me..

    • joan nieman

      You are a good Baby!! Have a wonderful day!

      • Baby

        Good Baby! xo

    • SandiCorrena

      You’re one of the good guys!

      • Baby

        Awww.. We all bring something to the table don’t we Sandi.. Thank you..

  • Deimos

    It never ceases to amaze me how many things LRH got wrong, historical facts, the human mind, communication, it’s a very long list.

    I can’t think of anything important he got right (except the methods of follower fleecing).

    L Wrong Hubbard indeed.

    But it’s Saturday ! so have an excellent weekend you superb group of humans.

    • Cat Daddy

      He got the controlling mechanisms right

      I think he enjoyed pushing his “realities” through more when he himself knew they were based on bullshit.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_eSwq1ewsU

      • Deimos

        Yes, I can agree with that.
        A classic psychopath but lacking any of the other qualities needed to be anything but a cult leader. The only thing that stopped it all ending in a horrible massacre was that he liked to keep his followers at arms length, plus of course a cowards desire to avoid direct confrontation with authority.
        Diddy Dave shares almost all of his faults but lacks even the minimal ability to attract followers.

    • Barbara Angel

      Naaah it’s Sunday in Australia and heat wave time. 40c = 104f Too bloody hot to think straight.

      • Missionary Kid

        What’s the humidity level? When it gets to 104 here, the humidity is usually around 20%. I’ve worked outside when the temperature reached 50.5C, 123F. We started before sun up.

        • Barbara Angel

          50.5c You Win Mr MK, no more whingeing from me. You worked *outside* and lived to tell the tale??? I knew you were a legend. Not sure about the humidity level, it’s normally dry heat and plenty of it.

          • Missionary Kid

            Not really. When the humidity is that low, sweat works. You keep a hat on, and wear shorts.

            When the wind is blowing, I can hang up a pair of Levis in the shade, and they’re bone dry in an hour.

            I’ll take 123 here any day over 90F (32C) and 100% humidity like you get in the American midwest and south in the summertime. I’ve lived and worked in those regions, and it’s brutal when the humidity is that high.

            • Tomato Thetan

              Amen

            • WildaBeast

              Agreed. Humidity here tends to waver between 60-80% year round. Makes the hot hotter and the cold colder. I can handle it in the summer, but in the winter…well, I blew my hands a few years back and now the humid cold gets in my joints and its damn near unbearable. Especially in the middle of the worst winter in 19 years.

            • Missionary Kid

              What area are you in?

            • WildaBeast

              Toronto, Ontario. Essentially the Midwest, across a national border.

            • Missionary Kid

              That would make it miserable because you’re on the water. You get all the disadvantages of lake effect weather.

            • WildaBeast

              Exactly. The only good thing about it is that it limits our snowfall to a certain extent. An hour’s drive from downtown, they get inches more than we do on every snowfall, and some snow just misses us completely and pounds the folks 30 miles away from us, in a big ol’ semi-circle around the city.

          • Missionary Kid

            I looked up the humidity in Melbourne (I don’t know where you’re at), and it’s 65 percent at 75 F at 1 am,. We call that the monsoon season here. (Tongue in cheek). When it’s hot and we have clouds, it means that there’s humidity in the air, and it gets uncomfortable.

            Our comparable humidity in the summer would be around 25-30 percent at that temperature. As the day warms up, the humidity percentage drops.

            If it were as humid here as Melbourne, I’d be miserable. I imagine that the outback is much dryer than the coast.

            We have the Pacific mountain range just to our west, and that traps much of the moisture.

            • SciWatcher

              Unless you’re in Santa Monica or other coastal cities, and then it’s always annoyingly humid. Though granted, not like some places.

            • Missionary Kid

              Disqus ate my reply, so I’m reposting it. The entire West Coast has a cold current traveling south, so much less moisture is absorbed by the air. The Midwest and South have a relatively warmer current, so much more moisture is absorbed into the air mass.

              Inland California is basically a desert, with a lot of irrigation from the water that comes off of the Sierras. The low precipitation level this year will be a big problem.

            • SciWatcher

              Yep, the drought is going to be bad. I think I read somewhere that there has been a record-breaking lack of rainfall?

            • Missionary Kid

              Yup, they’re talking 500 year levels.

            • SciWatcher

              I live in two different places (at different times of the year, not at once, haha) with two opposite problems. The one has had record-breaking rainfall, and the other record-breaking lack of rainfall. The weather is broken everywhere.

            • Missionary Kid

              We have a lot of snow birds that are here for the winter.

            • SciWatcher

              I actually leave so-cal for the fall/winter! I like the cold.

            • WildaBeast

              I know they’re asking folks to voluntarily limit their water consumption, and it seems like it won’t be long before rationing is imposed…it’s shitty. My wife was born in the Bay Area, she’s been watching this like a hawk because she says it hasn’t been this bad since she was a little kid. 🙁

            • Missionary Kid

              It’s worse than when she was a kid. It is apparently a 500 year low.

            • WildaBeast

              Christ. And how much of America’s fruit and vegetable produce comes out of California again? 50% or something insane, isn’t it? Not a good thought.

            • Missionary Kid

              Yup. They’ve already been hit. They also are using their water more efficiently already.

        • Eclipse-girl

          roofers who usually only work during the summer in the the northern climates, also ask to start very early, so they can get off at about 3:00 pm.

          • Missionary Kid

            Since we’re closer to the equator, our twilight is much shorter than it is where you are, so construction workers set up in the dark. Roofers here have to be crazy.

      • Deimos

        Wet and windy Saturday in these here British isles, monster flooding plus lovely high winds.

        BUT the rugby starts in Dublin soon and my beer is packing the fridge out.

        • Barbara Angel

          So glad you didn’t torture me with the word ‘cold’…. the walls of the Angel cave are hot to touch and it’s 1am Sunday morning with more heat to come. Enjoy your rugby & amber nectar.

        • VickiStubing

          Enjoy your rugby. I’ve got a head start on you, what with Liverpool thrashing Arsenal and what that means for their league standing and all. My family left me to cheer and celebrate alone, aka at the top of my lungs. Wee bit too early for beer here 😀

          • Deimos

            Arghh I was saving the Liverpool game for tonight, but at least we won.
            Don’t let me know the score please BUT the word “thrashing” has me smiling a lot.
            I’m following the “rugby rule of beer” – if the game is on then so is the tap !

            • VickiStubing

              I am so sorry! No score, then. I’ll try to remember that in the future, also 😀 Now praying that Newcastle can put Chelsea in their place. Aw, no John Terry? Now THAT is a reason to celebrate!

              Will lift a toast with you later in the day!

      • Bradley Greenwood

        Cold and rainy in northern California… love it! Big cup of tea, and a quiet house for at least another hour.

        • Barbara Angel

          Any chance you are looking for a boarder?
          I’m quiet and usually well behaved.

      • WildaBeast

        Please can we trade? It’s -15 or so Celsius here and I’m freakin’ dying.

        • Barbara Angel

          Yes, yes, yes can’t stand the heat, the walls, pavements, buildings heat up intolerably and heating and air-con are not standard fittings in an Aus cave. If you own it, you can put those in but if you rent and its winter or summer, you suffer.

    • Psychevil

      There are hundreds of psychotherapy styles, most developed by people who had some expertise in the subject. Right or wrong, most used the methods of science as understood in their time and helped people. Even in my relatively brief professional lifetime, the field has changed dramatically with new information.

      So how could a bad science fiction writer be considered to have any expertise in psychology or science, not to mention infallibility, as unscientific a concept as there is?

      • MaxSpaceman

        How? Here’s how.

        By Jennifer Schuessler, NY Times.

        “… Before Hubbard was the leader of a full-blown church, he was a science-fiction writer and former naval officer peddling a mental health treatment that seemed to fit right in with mid-century America’s fascination with psychoanalysis and other scientific mind-cures. Hubbard’s “Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health” appeared pretty much out of nowhere in May 1950, trailing little advance notice beyond an excerpt in “Astounding Science Fiction” and a shout-out from the columnist Walter Winchell, who suggested that Dianetics would “prove to be as revolutionary for humanity as the first caveman’s discovery and utilization of fire.”

        “Despite a paucity of advertising and reviews, the book sold some 20,000 copies within its first two months and inspired “Dianetics parties” in living rooms across the country, where people “audited” one another in order to root out negative experiences imprinted at the cellular level. By the end of the year, it had sold half a million copies and had spent 28 weeks on the best-seller list.

        “On July 2, 1950, the Book Review ran a sober if highly unfavorable assessment by the psychologist Rollo May. After noting the superficial similarity between Hubbard’s ideas and standard concepts in psychotherapy and psychoanalysis, May lowered the boom. “The importance of ‘Dianetics,’ ” he wrote, “is that it so clearly illustrates the most common fallacy of our time in regard to psychological ills. This is the fallacy of trying to construct a simple science of human behavior based upon mathematics and using for its models the physical sciences and the machine.” Hubbard — whose publisher once called him “the most brilliant mind in the country without salad dressing” (i.e., advanced degrees) — struck back in a letter, accusing May of being “warped” by “emotionalisms.” As for the charge that his theories lacked empirical proof, Hubbard claimed that he had heard from thousands of doctors, psychiatrists and laymen (not to mention physicists and political scientists), and that “the derogatory letters are in the ratio of 1 to 505 letters of approval.”

        • Psychevil

          Very interesting to hear about the discussions back then.
          My question was rhetorical, also aimed at lurkers who still believe in infallibility.

          • MaxSpaceman

            oh. missed that.

        • Panopea Abrupta

          Most of those letters were probably solicited by Hubbard and with text provided by him – much as he did for his navy application.

      • WildaBeast

        I think El Wrong cashed in on a very basic human need: the need to believe that Someone Out There has all the answers. It’s the same need that allows organized religion to flourish everywhere there are people. Only, instead of pointing to a god or gods whose existence can’t be proven or disproven, he pointed to himself. Then he talked circles around his converts until their very basic human need got all tangled up with his words. They could point to something real – a physical person whose existence could be proven – and say that this person had fulfilled that need for them, and that made him the Biggest of Beings.
        The thing is that the stronger such a need is in a person, the more appalling it is to admit that one was wrong: Hubbard didn’t have all the answers, nobody on earth does, we have to find as many as we can for ourselves, and there’s an end to it. When you’ve spent decades focusing on that need and its purported fulfillment, to throw out the whole mess and start over is enough to really shake your sense of self. I think that’s what might keep a lot of people in: ‘If I leave, I was wrong, and so was Elron. If I was wrong, then everything I’ve done for the last (insert number of years in Scientology here) was meaningless. If it was all meaningless, who the hell am I now? *mental image of horrifying void* *panic* Elron couldn’t have been wrong; he couldn’t, he COULDN’T!’
        But when you leave, you don’t lose who you are. You really don’t, or no exes would come here. They would all go crazy forever, instead. But when you’re in, it must be hard to realize that.
        And of course, that’s only a small portion of the problem in leaving. There’s also freeloader debt, the thought of losing your family and friends, on and on and on.
        But that’s how El Wrong got to be considered an expert in everything, not to mention infallible. He set it up so that people’s sense of self depended on perceiving him that way – and people will fight like rabid dogs to maintain their sense of who they are, since the alternative is madness.

        • 3feetback-of-COS

          I know in my case, I was interested and educated in science and engineering only.

          In my 20s, I was still unhappy and uneasy. When I came across scientology, I figured, “Hey, I don’t know anything about spiritual things. Maybe I should learn more and maybe it can make me happier?”

  • LongNeckGoose

    “In his vital list of thought reform methods, Robert Jay Lifton includes “ideology over experience.” In this phase of dissociation from reason, the individual puts aside actual experiences in favour of the thought reformer’s facile and often ridiculous claims. So, a gardener who has grown tomatoes for years on end is told by a cult leader that they grow best in sand and straw without fertiliser and will thereafter try to grow them in this impossible way, because the dogma insists that this is true. Never mind that the tomato plants never fruit. It is not because of the growing medium, but rather the fault of the previously successful gardener.”

    You’ve got admit that much of the political discourse in the United States seems to operate on this same principle.

    • WildaBeast

      Not just the United States. Canada is approaching the same levels of insanity. Off-topic I know. Sorry.

  • Cat Daddy
    • CobGatYour$$

      These images are THE TRUE FACES OF SCIENTOLOGY, ORGANIZED RELIGIOUS CRIMINALS! ( Light on actual “religion”).

    • SciWatcher

      Wow, so have they violated the temporary restraining order with this continued surveillance?

      • Espiando

        Technically, they haven’t. During the last live blog, the Good Guy Crew pointed out that DSA Austin Cathy Norman was in the courtroom. My thought was that the Toxic Midget felt he couldn’t trust his attorneys to provide him with “true information” (namely feed him shit that he wants to hear, rather than the ass-pounding that Scientology was getting from Judge Ricky Gervais), so he sent his ever-loyal local OSAbot down there. So they’re there for the court proceedings moreso than to keep tabs on Marty and Mosey. But those photos are showing that they just can’t help themselves, and they’re going to behave like OSA.

        If Marty’s right about Toxin being in charge of the OSA twits, though, it blows the other part of my theory, namely that Toxin, Dingaling, and Soter Pop have lost the Mandate of Heaven. If that’s the case, that’s a mammoth revision to the Scilon Operating System.

        • SciWatcher

          Thanks Espi

          “If that’s the case, that’s a mammoth revision to the Scilon Operating System.”

          How do you mean?

          • Espiando

            Kendrick Moxon and Monique Yingling, and in a sense Gary Soter, have had DM’s absolute trust over the years. They’re the ones he’s relied upon to make things “go right” when Evil Wog Justice dares to interfere with his business. If they’ve lost that trust enough to inject OSA personnel into the process of garnering his information for him in this case, that’s big. We’ve seen what’s happened when a lawyer has lost DM’s trust with Helena Kobrin, who couldn’t “handle” Usenet. At that time, he still had Moxin to rely upon, and Yingling came up the ranks to replace Kobrin. Right now, thanks to his utter paranoia, there’s no one on deck for him in the legal sense, or no one that we know of.

            He can’t trust the wog lawyers. He might not trust the Three Stooges. If that’s the case, with the number of suits against his house of cards piling up by the day, he’s in really big trouble.

            • Missionary Kid

              Could it be that with the ban on electronic communication that the Co$ operatives are ducking in and out of the courtroom to give Davy updates?

            • WildaBeast

              I’m sure of that. But they’re probably also spying on Mosey, because it’s reflexive for them at this point.

            • Missionary Kid

              Amen.

            • Cat Daddy

              With Dildo’s on top

            • SciWatcher

              Ah, gotcha. Interesting.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              At this stage he should be paranoid. He’s painted a bullseye on just about everyone of his accomplices in his mad revenge pursuits. It seems to me that the lawyers might be skating thin for a host of reasons. OSA and all his other minions are privy and seeing for themselves how Miscavige can’t throw enough of his loyals under the bus and on a dime. Hell, he threw the entire CoS under a mac truck just for openers! What’s a megomaniacal paranoid sociopath to do?

            • WildaBeast

              Does he have to fix everything himself?

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Yes. He’s the only one who can do it right.

            • WildaBeast

              Good thing he’s such a Big Being that he can do it all himself then. He just deputizes other folks to help him in order to make their lives feel meaningful for them. And all the yelling and screaming is just to help motivate them.

            • Alpha Bates

              It seems obvious then that Davey should go down to Texas and handle this whole thing.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          How do you arrive at your conclusion they haven’t? The picture of OSA agents standing right outside the window of the coffee shop where Monique and baby are sitting seems to me pretty blatant violation. Can you explain?

          I just wish Marty would hand this over to the lawyer and deal with it legally instead of by blog as I don’t really understand this method. The judge needs to see these pictures. Am I missing something?

          • Espiando

            I did say “technically”, Hole. I didn’t say that they weren’t doing it. They are. You know better than I do about OSA and their ways. They’re going to cross the line, and then Mosey and Marty have them by the short hairs.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Had my coffee and still don’t understand. Thought maybe I’d missed something. I just hope that Ray has the opportunity to present all the evidence he needs to get across the message that sociopaths don’t stop just because a judge tells them to stop. Miscavige is not going to stop unless by a mere restraining order. We shall see.

            • WildaBeast

              If the OSAbots aren’t doing anything, just standing around, and they happen to be right near where Mosey is, well, they’re citizens, they can come check out the suit, and if they happen to be waiting to meet someone outside the cafe where she’s eating (for HOURS), well, that’s not illegal, is it?
              And other tripe like that. It might be worth Ray’s while to wait until they really cross the line of no return, instead of just sliding a toe across it.
              Yes, they’re in violation, I’m sure of that. But they need to be really obviously, provably, beat-you-over-the-head-with-it in violation, and they haven’t quite gotten to that point yet as far as I can tell.
              They will, though.

            • disqus_SPiN5N4Adl

              Tactically, I think you’re right. I mean, he’s got to pck his battles. So, why not wait, let them get complacent, let them cross the line in a more egregious way.

            • Espiando

              It’s the old “letter of the law” versus “spirit of the law” argument. Right now, they haven’t done anything that violates the letter of the TRO, so Judge Ricky can’t declare them in default of the agreement. Yet. They will cross the line. They have to. The little psychopath won’t let them not do it.

            • Observer

              And the longer they linger at the line, the more egregious the crossing of it will be.

          • villagedianne

            “How do you arrive at your conclusion they haven’t? The picture of OSA agents standing right outside the window of the coffee shop where Monique and baby are sitting seems to me pretty blatant violation.”

            Did this actually happen? I thought Monique had a temporary injunction against COS surveillance.

            • WildaBeast

              She does. They’re just breaking the hell out of the spirit of that injunction, while apparently maintaining plausible deniability (for now) about not breaking the letter of it. Dirtbags.

        • 3feetback-of-COS

          It should not be hard to get a series of photos or videos of the OSAbots trailing the Rathbuns at different locations in town. Too much for it just to be a coincidence.

      • disqus_SPiN5N4Adl

        I would think so. Trailing her outside a coffee shop. That seems to be a clear violation.

    • Barbara Angel

      Scared me for a minute I thought the woman was the one with the moustache???? scrolled down rapidly so its all good.

    • Barbara Angel

      Just wondering what the good Judge will say about this latest harassment by Co$?
      Could be yet another Public…..*Foot Bullet* hope they keep it up, so all can see.. Co$ just ***Won’t Learn*** that this is unacceptable behaviour.

  • Another erudite exposition from Mr Atack. Thank you. That Scientology False Data Stripping exercise really is a tricksy document. In addition to the false data contained within the reading material itself, as one goes through the exercise it becomes apparent that the only “false data” being stripped are reasons why a person shouldn’t pay for more Scientology. Its also a bit like the Doubt Formula in that one cannot actually have doubt about Scientology in order to do the formula. Both “processes” require that the person doing them already agree with the tech. Pretty much all Scientology processes have this petitio principii aspect to them but it is the Doubt Formula and the False Data Stripping which, IMHO, achieve the exact opposite of their stated intention.

  • Graham

    “schools like transactional analysis, which pretend not to be hypnotic”

    Jon – not sure why you’re implying that TA is some kind of hypnosis-by-stealth. It’s a well established and well regarded therapeutic approach. It’s based on Freud’s ideas, but makes them more understandable to the lay-person by re-labelling concepts such as Super-ego, Ego and Id with Parent, Adult and Child.

    I’ve found a lot of value in TA, both for myself when a client and when working as a therapist. If you know of someone who’s been using some kind of pseudo-hypnotism and claiming it’s TA then you may have met a charlatan?

    • L. C. Spencer

      That caught my eye too. I’ve noticed the occasional reference or analogy that rings false in Jon’s essays. My take on it is that his knowledge of Scientology and its sources is absolutely profound, and the amount of time and effort he’s had to sink into it shows once in a while when comparing it to areas in which he’s not as expert. It would be amazing after all for someone to be a highly trained Scientologist and then transition to a fully trained psychologist with comparable advanced studies. It would almost take two lifetimes to be that immersed twice in a row. And anytime he does go off point for a moment, it’s always a peripheral, practically throwaway reference, never a full concept or a central point; sometimes it almost comes across as a sort of communicative scar, a ghostly trace from thought patterns long left behind. We all do that.

      So I think it’s worth pointing out small departures from accuracy as you did, just in the name of accuracy. Doesn’t bother me though – Jon is able to provide analysis and insight that I think really no one else can, and he’s able to take complicated and apparently disparate concepts and weave them together for the benefit of not just ex-members, but never-ins, with wonderful skill. He’s an absolute treasure and I’m so glad he’s writing here. I’ve saved every last one of these essays to my hard drive and I recommend his book to everybody. I’m sure you (and all of us here) feel the same way.

    • Dan Tobaccus

      In the nineteenth century, French neurologist Jean-Martin Charcot changed the medical opinion of hypnosis as a form of quackery to a method of investigation with diagnostic and therapeutic potential.

      At first, Freud embraced hypnosis, but soon abandoned it in favor of ‘free association.’

      Free association is where the therapist says something, and the patient says whatever comes into their mind.

      To me, that’s much more like an auditing session.

      While practicing free association, Freud noticed the phenomena of ‘transference.’ The patient transfers certain feelings from their unconscious to the therapist, like the feelings the patient had for their parents during childhood. These feelings are now transferred to the therapist.

      Recently in French court, “psychiatrist Daniel Zagury described the way Scientology operated as an abuse of the well-known process of transference… ”

      “You’ve always been good to me, Scientology!”

  • Truthiwant

    Hubbard talks about aviation in one of his lectures. At one point he says that there were originally loads of different methods of flight and that the aeroplane was just one of many of them. He also says that the aeroplane was far from the best flying object among all the others but, for some reason, it was accepted. (You’ve got to feel sorry for the poor Wright Brothers!). He makes you think that HE knew about all these other forms of flight that are possible, but of course he never descibes even one of them. Intelligent people, just like the NASA course supervisor that Jon Atack mentions, actually believed in this hogwash.

    • RandomSP

      Anti-gravity, photon repulsion, any number of things. Hubbard knew them all and could revolutionize aviation if he cared too but he had better things to do, namely saving your immortal-ass thetan from the the dwindling spiral. So quit yer bitchin’ and find your MU.

      • Missionary Kid

        Great sarcasm.

        • RandomSP

          You know what’s weird? I pulled “photon repulsion” out of my ass trying think up something that would fit. Then I Googled it. Turns out, I must have pulled that one right off the track (joke for ex’s).

          • Missionary Kid

            Snickersnort.

    • kemist

      Joining or not joining cults is not about intelligence or lack of it.

      I think everybody can find things which are obviously false in Hubbard’s copious verbal diarrhea. Some of the things he says can be debunked with basic HS science or plain old observation and experience.

      It’s about overwhelming desire, for good or bad reasons, of what they promise. Increased IQ, super powers, meaning, happiness, friends. Some people want these so much at some points of their lives that they cease to listen to the little nagging, analytical voice that tells them the “solution” they have found does not look legit, that Beloved Leader is wrong about this or that. Because if He’s wrong about this, He might be wrong about what I want too, and that’s too painful to think about.

      • Eclipse-girl

        TY. Intelligent people can be vulnerable.

        • WildaBeast

          Cults go for emotional vulnerability, not stupidity. Intelligence =/= emotional health or stability. I kinda wish it did though, for my own sake.

          • Eclipse-girl

            The word says it all, a person is VULNERABLE

            Scientology makes a practice of finding vulnerable individuals and finding what make some individuals VULNERABLE.

            as a part of my therapy, I had to learn to accept vulnerability. I was raised to be a stoic. Stoicism protected me in many ways. It also prevented me from feeling, too.

            • WildaBeast

              Ah, stoicism. My father is a professor of classics and ancient philosophy. He’s studied the original stoics – Greek and Roman – closely for decades. He lives the stoic philosophy, and raised his children in it to a certain extent, not necessarily deliberately, but just because a parent’s values are absorbed by the child. It does protect you. But oh, the repression! It’s so basic a part of me now that I don’t know if it’s worth the trouble it would be to reverse it.
              Learning to accept vulnerability without concomitant self-hatred is a hard task for a stoic. Good for you for putting in the effort.

            • SciWatcher

              Classics was my undergrad major–where does your dad teach?

            • Eclipse-girl

              TY for understanding.

      • 3feetback-of-COS

        Every conman knows that the first step is to make the mark WANT to believe.

        I know in my case, I was interested and educated in science and engineering only.

        In my 20s, I was still unhappy and uneasy. When I came across
        scientology, I figured, “Hey, I don’t know anything about spiritual
        things. Maybe I should learn more and maybe it can make me happier?”

  • Unex Skcus

    I thought that was a great article, thanks Mr Atack. Loved the way you blended philosophy with a tomato! [chuckle]

    • joan nieman

      Yes, Unex, it was a great article by Jon. Thank you Jon! The clip from Wise Beard was also very entertaining and informative. He is a soldier who will not give up the fight. If he does some day, run for mayor , he will be the best damn mayor around. Watch out Great Ogre ( Scientology) You will be packing fast!

  • Sejanus

    Did Hubburp ever not utter complete manure?

    His lectures were the sad ramblings of a charismatic huckster, nothing more.
    The thing about talking out your bum is at least your tongue does not get in the way.

  • Barbara Angel

    Yep, that mentally Ill crook spun a lot of BS and got away with it, but that was *BEFORE* the World Wide Blessing known as the ***Internet***. If they had the Internet back then…..He would have been researched and Shot Down in Flames and Exposed for the Mentally Ill, Sadistic, Greedy, Black Magician that he was.
    Even the Pope of the Catholic church thinks the internet is a blessing, even if it brings to light the Multiple, multiple sexual abuse scandals world wide. That’s the difference between someone who acknowledges Wrong and tries to Right it, versus Mustravage who is in some permanent psychotic state of DENIAL, about all his and LRH’s scams and Criminal Racketeering.

    Thank you Mr Atack for all your thought provoking Clarity on LRH and his gang of thieves. Ali Baba and his gang of 40 thieves were amateurs compared to LRH and his gang.

  • Xique

    Jon, this last bit, the “antidote to the restrictive thinking of Scientology”, is extremely helpful. I realize Mills wrote it in 1859, but it’s more than relevant today. Thank you for picking it out and offering it up to us.
    “Very few facts can tell their own story, without comments to bring out their meaning.” JSM And to think he knew nothing of Comment Sections on Blogposts.
    Jon your help on Saturdays is the best.

    • Missionary Kid

      He didn’t knwo about comments, but he did know about ordinary discussion.

  • MaxSpaceman

    “In the case of any person whose judgement is really deserving of
    confidence, how has it become so? Because he has kept his mind open to
    criticism of his opinions and conduct.”– John Stuart Mill, On Liberty, published in 1859.

    Lafayette RH deserves ‘no confidence’ yet gets slavish confidence from his Cult members who consider his tripe a ‘religion’. It’s beyond extraordinary that Hubbard created a body of work that still captures entire lives and entire families nearly 30 years after his death.

  • media_lush

    Mark Bunker has put out a new video

    http://youtu.be/VtPZSospkeI

    • Cat Daddy

      LOL he said “affinity”

      • Zaphod Beeblebrox

        What I hope we’ll be saying if he gets elected as mayor:

        Wise Beard Mayor

        His words are wise

        His face is Beard

        He is kick-ass Mayor

    • Seannie5

      Wow, it’s so sad that his neighbour shunned him once she knew who he was. You hear about all these rules and they sound so crazy to even be real – but they are. Ugh.

      • Observer

        Scientology is always worse than you think.

        • Missionary Kid

          Scientology is also worse than you can imagine.

        • MaxSpaceman

          And that has turned into a perpetual response to the subject. As long as there is a $cientology, there will be the statement: It’s Always Worse Than You Think.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      HoyY CRaP! Hope Clearwater city officials, Tobin and Childs, and gee a whole slew of people and organizations, get a copy of Marty’s clip and a transcript. How Clearwater city officials have been manipulated by scientology, oh, and Bought the Clearwater police department.

      Waiting for Clearwater anons to hear that the Clearwater police and city officials have all stated that the Injunction has never been used on anyone other than Mark Bunker (pfffft) and give Mark any and all docs he needs. So now protesters can protest without being subjected to this? Is that right? This should be interesting.

      Mark Bunker will be running for Wise Beard Mayor? For real? Hot damn. Captain Blackheart is going to have to find a new place to consolidate headquarters now. Poor Davey. SP’s everywhere up in his stuff. Hoo Boy. Can’t wait to hear the blowback response from Clearwater.

      Wise Beard Mayor. Oh yes, please.

      • Cat Daddy
      • WildaBeast

        He’s gonna run for mayor of Clearwater? (I can’t watch the vid because the wife is sleeping next to me, and on a day she doesn’t have to work, it’s worth my life to wake her before 2pm.) That’s freakin’ fantabulous! So much of Clearwater’s citizenry has been essentially held hostage by these shitbags for so long now that he could easily get elected, if he runs on a “Get this insanity out of town by voting for me; I’ve been fighting them for years already” platform. Can Clearwater local Bunkeroos keep us up-to-date on this as it develops, pretty please?

        • Eclipse-girl

          The vid is great. Watch it after the wife has slept in.
          Yes, Mark does state that maybe he would run for public office.

          I hope during the gathering in May, the protesters learn they are not subject to the injunction.

          • Espiando

            It’s not only the Anons I want to see freed from this nonsense. It’s the remaining members of the LMT. They, more than anyone, have the right to be on the barricades. I wish they still had the Sponsor The Brick program, because the perfect culmination for a protest there would be planting one of those with the name “Robert Minton” on it.

            • Eclipse-girl

              Robert’s name deserves to be there.

          • Cat Daddy

            Maybe all wear T shirts I am NOT an LMT member

        • MaxSpaceman

          Clue: ear buds. Wifey will never know with you buds in or earphones on, WildaB.!

          • WildaBeast

            😀 I have to find my iPod, the earbuds are attached to it. Sigh. My apartment is the original definition of ‘cluttered’.

            • 3feetback-of-COS

              My apartment is the original definition of ‘cluttered’.

              “We have counseling and a course that can help you with that.”

        • Zaphod Beeblebrox

          Wouldn’t the cult get Scilons to vote for an opponent, though?

          • WildaBeast

            They would. They’d also probably spend money like water, trying to slime him. But I’m fairly sure that non-Scilons outnumber Scilons, even in Clearwater. So it’s a thing that could happen.

            • Zaphod Beeblebrox

              I hope he does run for Mayor of Clearwater, and if so I hope he gets elected. If he does get elected, though, I fear for Miscavige’s underlings. Having said that, the look on his face when he finds out would be priceless.

            • WildaBeast

              I’m now fantasizing about someone snapping a smartphone pic at the moment of revelation…

        • SS

          At the very end of the clip he’s saying one of the reasons he moved back to Clearwater was to focus on finishing “Knowledge Report”, and then he says “and it’d be fun to run for Mayor as well, so…..there’s that.” Sounds as if it will be a good ways down the road if he chooses to.

          Mayor Mark Bunker of Clearwater, FL. I’m cracking up just typing it. With the amount of resentment towards the “church” that’s built up over the years amongst a large percentage of residents, Bunker could well be a shoe-in.

          This is now just below “Miscavige in prison” on my wish list.

          • Eclipse-girl

            I would contribute to his campaign.

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              Me too. I’d come down and knock on doors if I could get someone to billet me.

      • Sunny Sands

        Since OSA monitors this blog, they will be sure to relay the Mayor remark to DM today. To be a fly on the wall to see that!

    • Sunny Sands

      1. Scientology “bought” the Clearwater Police Dept. by putting every officer they could on off-duty work at double and triple time. WOW.

      2. Bunker and Attorney DeVlaming recently went to the Clearwater Police and asked them please not to enforce the injunction, because Mark wasn’t breaking it anyway. This action by an attorney mystifies me. The police enforce the rules, they don’t get to decide which ones. A judge would have to change/drop/nullify the injunction for that to happen.

      3. How was Mark legally chased away from filming I think it was the New Year’s event, if the injunction specifically excludes filming from its prohibitions. Possibly the officer was overstepping his authority.

      4. If Mark became Mayor of Clearwater, I think there would be nonstop litigation from the cult about everything, with the intent to bankrupt Clearwater.

      • WildaBeast

        Re: #4. You’re probably right. But they’d pretty well all have to be frivolous lawsuits, wouldn’t they? Can an entity be stopped from suing another entity if it’s proven that Entity A is attempting to overwhelm Entity B with frivolous lawsuits? Or is that a big fat black hole in American law, hence how the {Church} beat the IRS?

        • SciWatcher

          Que anti-slapp against COS!

          Edit: I mean, Cue. Duh!

          • WildaBeast

            I just had to Google SLAPP. Now a whole bunch of comments over the last week have been made much clearer to me. I love the interwebs!
            (Edited to remove very weird typo)

            • Sunny Sands

              I tried to up-vote you and fat finger got in the way, now the downer won’t go away. Sorry.

            • WildaBeast

              No worries. My screen is currently displaying at -9 upvotes and -14 downvotes for that comment, so I’m just amused.

            • SciWatcher

              I think 14 dvs is some kind of record! Maybe disqus is acting up again.

            • WildaBeast

              I think it must be – acting up, that is. I once saw it go really haywire, and settle at -200something DVs for a totally innocuous comment. I wish I’d gotten a screen grab.

            • SciWatcher

              Damn!

          • c_the_g

            Given how litigious they are, “queue” would also be appropriate.

        • Sunny Sands

          For example, recently scientology put illegal wraps on their tent. Mayor Cretekos let it slide. Mayor Bunker probably would have had teams taking those illegal wraps off ASAP. Then DM could say you trespassed, you stomped on our plants, you’re religious bigots, and you dinged my fender on the way out, I’m gonna sue.

          • Eclipse-girl

            It is my understanding that when a municipality has to some action, like remove illegal signage, there is no such thing a trespass. The property owner was warned ahead of time and refuse to obey a legal action.

          • WildaBeast

            Yeah :-/ They’d have to fight that one…but once they got it on the record that they were getting rid of stuff that was illegally placed there, they’d win the suit or the judge would order it dropped. Enough suits like that, and an anti-SLAPP motion could be put forward. Town of Clearwater would need to get legal fees back on every case they won, though.

        • OrangySky

          Isn’t that what anti-SLAPP is actually for? (NOT for silencing a woman whose life was made hell for four years!)

      • InClearwater

        Re No. 1, I could rant on about this one forever. It irritates me no end. It is blatant and obvious. I so wish that Clearwater, like many of the other cities in Pinellas County have already done, would dismantle the Clearwater PD and contract with the Pinellas County Sheriff’s Department to provide services.

      • Mark Bunker

        Denis and I spoke with the police because they had input when the injunction was put in place. You can see Rob Surette making his case in Judge Pennicks court years ago.

        http://www.youtube.com/embed/h2dY3GbzOvg

        Getting the police to say to the judge now that they would be okay if the injunction was taken away would have helped our case. It was good to find out their position before appearing in court. It’s not just Hubbard who says it never hurts to communicate.

        I wasn’t chased away from filming at the NY event. I had already left and was driving past the Fort Harrison Hotel when I saw security guard Antonio walking two officers down to where I had last been filming. I’m sure if the officers had arrived when I was still there they would have simply said you need to abide by the injunction which I had been doing. They would not have chased me away. This is what happened when a similar situation happened earlier.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPYz4jEu4KI

        • Mark Bunker

          I hadn’t watched that Rob Surrette video in years. I had forgotten how much the police hated this video and I’m sure that was a big factor in why they didn’t want to bend over backwards to remove the injunction on me. But I stand by what I said about the police working for Scientology. Scientology used to laugh at me because the judge said my video was junk for courtroom purposes but he was a lot more angry at the police department’s actions than he was by my video.

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XW8eTe_Ank8

    • Cece

      Now I need a bumper sticker ‘Mark Bunker for Mayor’. It can replace my ‘Seeger for President’ and fit write in with my Jerry Garcia dancing bears :). Actually I am decaling a 31 foot 5th wheel and I truly ought to use the space to get a few points across. I can get any decal of anything (my daughter will make it). Any ideas?
      No Mark really, I think that is a valid goal and I wish you all the best doing what you love doing. Helping light up the dark.

    • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

      Mark, you are not just an SP, you are one of the most evil and loathsome SPs, the bottom of the SP scumbucket, stuck in an electronic incident from a kajillion years ago and doomed to interiorized into a rock in your next lifetime. When you become mayor, you can hang out with Mayor Ford and even he will look down on you.

      • Missionary Kid

        Edit: I had a hard time detecting this as snark. It’s just me. My apologies, Mighty.

        • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

          Hi, Mish. I hope you are doing well. Having thought about it, for a good twenty minutes now, I think he just might win. I think of Howard Stern for governor and Hunter Thompson for Sheriff. What is wrong with Mark Bunker running?

          I am imagine he would get the vote of everyone not a Scientologist. I imagine that there would be a mudslinging campaign the likes of which no one has ever seen, another candidate running named Marc Bunker, a fake hit and run, a Scientology candidate running head to head against him, Tom Cruise and John Travolta shaking hands and kissing babies, Dick Tuck coming out of retirement and acting as a consultant, millions of dollars put towards the preferred candidate, a fire at Bunker Central, Bunker drunk with prostitutes, and a conspiracy that would make all others look like a day in nursery school.

          And he would still win.

          • Missionary Kid

            I hope you saw my edit. We’d have to resurrect Hunter for sheriff.

            Nothing is wrong with Mark for mayor. You’re right about all the dirty tricks. What OSA will do is everything they can to defeat Mark. Yes, there’s a lot of people who would like Mark, but the problems is he has is to appear to tackle more than $cientology, and Co$ will do everything it can to make him “controversial” and as a carpetbagger.

            In an election of this type, he’s going to need volunteers to help him, as well as a good way of getting his message out. He’s going to have to make himself more than a one issue candidate. On the topic of Co$, pointing out that they have driven out local businesses and created a toxic waste business zone for them around their buildings.

            I would imagine that it’s going to take a fast response group to counter the cult BS. I’m sure that what they will do, through sock puppets is churn out negative press releases just before deadlines.

            Whatever he does, it’s gonna be tough.

      • Missionary Kid

        See my edit after refreshing. I was a bit confused, and read your comment straight.

    • outraged

      Always thought Rinder rhymed with Finder.

    • Cat Daddy
  • Gerard Plourde

    “Hubbard himself urged people to check and test, but also introduced a series of measures to prevent such testing.”

    Here is another example of his system of mind control. By making the statement that people should check and test while at the same time preventing that avenue, he could exploit the human tendency toward inconsistency. We often subconsciously allow ourselves to concurrently hold contradictory opinions until called upon to reason things out. Hubbard cynically offered the illusion of free thought while actively ensuring that there would be no opportunity to actually think.

    • ze moo

      Well,said Gerald. So much of the lower ‘bridge’ is an attempt to get the devotee to worship Lroon and his wit and wisdom, whether he is witty or wise or not. The thought stopping starts there and anyone who doesn’t toe the line will soon be getting sec checked until their bank account is dry. Devotees are only useful while the cash flows.

    • MaxSpaceman

      And it’s another ‘checkmate’ move, GP. For every member who remains in.

    • 3feetback-of-COS

      Also, by sounding so “open minded” to inquiry, it puts people off their guard.

      He did the same trick by stating that scientology ‘wakes people up’ versus hypnosis puts them in a trance. Again, getting people to lower their guard, while using subtle hypnosis techniques to indoctrinate and enslave them.

    • DodoTheLaser

      You really nailed it, Gerard. And only in a few sentences. Thank you for that.
      Dianetics and Scientology defined.

  • RandomSP

    Hubbard’s tool for thought-stopping was self-introversion. Scientologists are vigorously trained to introvert at any hint of doubt about Scientology or Hubbard. It is enforced again and again that critical thoughts come from your own misdeeds so, unless you want to waste a lot of time and money dealing with your own misdeeds in session or in ethics, you instantly stop all critical thoughts. Similarly, any doubts about the workability of the tech or the truth of what Hubbard writes are the results of your own misunderstood words and other failings. Again, the solution is to keep those thoughts at bay or spend hours with the dictionary for every paragraph read. Hubbard was well aware of the power of such introversion as mentioned by Bent Corydon and Ronald DeWolf in L.RON HUBBARD Messiah of Madman?

    http://www.xenu.net/archive/books/mom/Messiah_or_Madman.txt

    “THOUGHT CONTROL

    A Scientologist is heavily indoctrinated into the idea that if he finds
    himself being critical of Hubbard or the Church or its executives,
    then the very fact of his being critical is proof positive of the fact that
    he himself is harboring undisclosed dirty deeds.
    This is a highly effective tool to “introvert them like a bullet,” as
    Hubbard phrased it. In other words, a person notices, for instance,
    something actually wrong with Hubbard and he immediately has his
    attention boomeranged right back at himself. So instead of pursuing
    his examination of Hubbard he finds himself introverting into him-
    self, and often paying (400 dollars an hour or more) to have his with-
    holds pulled!
    Meanwhile Hubbard’s errors and crimes are safe and sound, his
    image of infallibility intact.”

    • MaxSpaceman

      >>>”then the very fact of his being critical is proof positive of the fact that
      he himself is harboring undisclosed dirty deeds.”

      That is checkmate for everyone who remains in.

      • WildaBeast

        The one thing that I will give Hubbard is that he understood how people work, in this regard. He built a system that allows people’s vulnerabilities to be played on for the {Church’s} profit for DECADES of their lives, if not their entire lives. It’s an achievement. A horrible, foul, evil achievement, but an achievement nonetheless.

        • 3feetback-of-COS

          Maybe the greatest conman ever!

  • Eclipse-girl

    Tony,
    Another person suggested it. I heartily agree.
    Please include the single PZ Meyer article in your list.

    • RBE

      Yes, it was I who suggested it. It’s a great article that pulls no punches!

      • MaxSpaceman

        ‘Twould be a superb complement to the list. Like- The Cherry on Top ~

  • RMycroft

    “What turns it on, turns it off.” <– Purif/Narconon thought-stopper.

    So… the cure for Scientology criticism is more Scientology criticism, right?

    • WildaBeast

      Yes, absolutely! Being a Bunkeroo will eventually turn you into a Scilon, according to this bit of wisdom. Makes me wonder why they even bother sending Debbie Downer round to watch us. They should have faith in what they teach, and just wait for us to come crying to the fold with open arms and open wallets, begging to be allowed to confess our crimes.
      /spraining eyeballs from too much energetic rolling

    • RandomSP

      “That which you resist, you become.”

      Like so many Scientology “Axioms”, they only seem to work when they benefit Scientology, never in the reverse. Ain’t science grand!

  • Observer

    This is O the current T but priceless! IIRC Tony used this flyer in a Sunday Funnies. [Paul Harvey voice] And now … the rest of the story.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      “Now they don’t even accept phone calls.” How clueless can you get? She promotes herself as Gold Record songwriter, yet try to find it…she doesn’t even name it. Also claims “on the stage with” a number of A list artists, yet under professional group associations only lists scientology’s “Artists For a Better World”, not a single professional association which is mandatory if she was on stage with those artists, unless she was vacuuming the stage perhaps. Scientology artists give con artists a bad name.

      • Anonymous

        I just feel the need to mention Ted Stourton and Clamalot Castle Hotel for some reason.

      • Observer

        Yep. The first thought that popped into my head was “They’re not accepting your phone calls.”

      • aegerprimo

        I performed in the same coffee shops she did back in the mid 90’s. IIRC she was also a member of ASCAP and I think I saw her at a couple of the seminars for musicians they used to hold. That is probably what she is still doing. She was good back then, has talent, but then there are A LOT of singer/songwriters in Los Angeles who do. Anyone who had a gold record or even album credit on a gold record would brag about it. Just sayin’

    • Bury_The_Nuts
      • Observer

        Oh, you have GOT to be kidding me!

      • jeff

        Holy Crap! They raised the cash!

  • Mike Leopold

    Jon Atack is nothing short of brilliant in his analysis of Thought Stopping.

    • Espiando

      “Jon Atack is nothing short of brilliant in his analysis of Thought Stopping everything Scientology.”

      FTFY.

  • Cece

    To Jon, Until reading this artical – I too was/have been thought stopped by the indoctrination by the church and hubbard.

    I’ve been gone from it’s control (I thought) since Amy’s book mid 2009. I have been reading and studying the subject and others again. But it was not until sitting down with my hot tea in my cozy nook of this world, that I read your words and realized that I have seen your articles every week, I have ordered your new book when it came out. Why in the world had I specially not until now studied what you have to say? Then I realized I had the same about David Mayo and Captain Bill Robertson and possible some others yet I had read nearly every other book and article I could get my hands on. Well it must be because these names of anti-scientologist turned SPs were specifically told to me “Do not read, give a 2nd thought to…”

    Well one more spell broken Jon Thank you very much.

    PS When you say this above I’m thinking it should be ‘the reported’ not ‘unreported’

    “and failure to do so carries the same penalty that the unreported person will receive.”

    • WildaBeast

      No, he meant that if you FAIL to do a KR on someone, and whatever they did gets found out, and it’s found out that you didn’t do the KR, you’ll get the same punishment for not doing the KR that they get for doing whatever it was that you ‘should’ have written the KR about.
      Did I use ‘KR’ enough in that sentence? Jesus…

  • Tony Ortega

    NOW ADDED TO THE POST: Our weekly ‘Video Vault’ classic

  • Free Minds, Free Hearts

    OT, but worth checking out Marty’s blog today. OSA is following Monique in New Braunfels, “along the sidewalks to the coffee and sandwich shops team Monique frequents at breakfast and lunch….” Marty says, “When Monique politely inquired of the name of one of the spying agents, [Kendrick] Moxon aggressively attempted to silence Monique. ” Am I missing something or is this really stupid?

    • Mooser

      “Am I missing something or is this really stupid?”

      ‘Will nobody rid me of this enturbulating priest?’ Why the &^% are those people turning up there? Do they have any business there?

  • Sherbet

    Hey, that’s not a bad video…Oh, wait, there’s audio, too? Well, that’s gonna ruin it.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Return of the Scientologist in a trench coat … in the desert. thanks again, Marc, for the back story and thanks Tony for these videos. This one really spotlights one of Hubbard’s mind games. It’s all a secret for eons and only I know it. You know it too, but it’s locked up in something with a heavy lid. (are your lids getting heavy yet?).
    Can’t wait to hear the handcuffed in the cop car in the sand dunes story. Sounds lulzy.

  • BosonStark

    The injunction about “verbal tech” or any criticism or discussion of anything to do with Hubbard’s ideas, except when not selling someone into is one of the things that alarms me still, about how intelligent people or especially educated people who don’t grow up in this, get into it.

    Before considering buying into a “religion,” philosophy or therapeutic method concocted by a pulp science fiction writer, MOST people would be critical and have and have a serious number of questions BEFORE they try it for themselves to see if it works.

    Scientology finds its opening in magickal thinkers, or people at a vulnerable place in their life, people who are subject to peer influence — someone they admire gets involved — or they are contrarians, as Wright mentioned. These are people who like the idea of belonging to a group of people who think they are turning the world upside down with their revolutionary, exciting and different way of thinking — what is true for you.

    There are also people who want to buy into feeling elite and superior to others, that they “know” things most people don’t, and that they can purchase this knowledge, open a secret briefcase, and “know.”

    But, at the point where there’s a roadblock, when you can’t discuss Hubbard’s ideas openly, when you have to deny Xenu, that is when the word “cult” looms large and not in a good way. The reverse pyramid fee structure and focus on selling it or buying into it are obvious red flags. Yes, it’s elaborate. Yes, auditing makes some people feel euphoric or even gives them out-of-body experiences but it’s constructed as a scam to get your money.

    People like Grant Cardone are never going to see this because he is his money, and money buys him Sciloontology and eternity.

    • Qbird

      So. Folks like the Cardones have bought with messy money their elite-nesses and their eternities from the churches of scientology. That’s what the CO$ sells.
      They bought it; it belongas to them. See their accomplishments.
      See their certificates and trophies. (nice shiny official, stamped & certified MEST things)
      They are superior human beings.
      I suppose this means that their shit comes wrapped in cellophane now…
      now that they have attained such OT IAS status.

      Hip hip hoorah for the Homo Novus-es!!! Bully for them!

      • Eclipse-girl

        I am proud to stand with the rest of us homo sapiens,

    • Cat Daddy

      They don’t reaklly believe, they just found an oppurtunity to leech of people

      • Captain Howdy

        Reinhard Heydrich was the evilest of all Nazis and according to the experts he didn’t even believe in National Socialism.

        Usually the people at the top aren’t believers, that’s why they’re at the top.

        • joan nieman

          Indeed, Captain. Do as I say, not as I do.

    • 3feetback-of-COS

      I know in my case, I was interested and educated in science and engineering only.

      In my 20s, I was still unhappy and uneasy. When I came across
      scientology, I figured, “Hey, I don’t know anything about spiritual
      things. Maybe I should learn more and maybe it can make me happier?”

      • Panopea Abrupta

        So how did that work out for you?

        Happier, much?

        • splog

          It got me euphoric for more than 15 years and less than 27.

          Happy? No, not really. I thought I was, but I was deluded.

          • Panopea Abrupta

            Not an awful balance.
            There are worse.

            Good luck

    • Mooser

      “Yes, auditing makes some people feel euphoric or even gives them out-of-body experiences”

      I completely agree! Auditing with an e-meter is an outer-body experience. Totally outer-body!

  • Eclipse-girl

    I look forward to Marc’s story of being arrested. There are times when I am listening to these vids I get so angry.

    Doubt is NOT an aberration. it is a normal human emotion

    Genetic background? When did he take a course in Genetics? When did he take a course in Biology?

    (Please Tony as per RBE’s request, put the article with PZ Meyer in your long list of articles.)

    Where do man come from?
    We evolved on this planet. We didn’t come from anywhere

    What is man doing here?
    Living.

    There is no heavy lid that is holding us down.

    What a bunch of BS

    • OrangySky

      If there is no ‘heavy lid,” there is no need for LRH.

      • Eclipse-girl

        as demonstrated by the criminal activities of the cult, there was never a need for the flibbity – flabbity lips

  • Remy

    Let’s not forget the thought-stopping technique Scientology uses in its schools, which has been demonstrated to stunt cognitive development in children: Misunderstood Words.

    • Eclipse-girl

      TY for reminding of this incredibly important point.

      • WildaBeast

        Indeed, thank you. The thought ruined the taste of the dark chocolate I was eating, but it’s damned important to remember. Anyone who would deliberately damage the developing mind of a child…I’m trying to find the words to describe how utterly, completely morally reprehensible such actions are, how contrary to all that is decent in human nature, how anti-survival it is in Darwinian terms. I can make the bald statements, but either I or the English language lack the words to convey the emotions that accompany them.

        • Barbara Angel

          That’s why swear words were invented. **#*%*%#*)#** etc… Savour that excellent dark chocolate don’t let them win.

    • Barbara Angel

      Yep misunderstood words are important such as: S.T.A.L.K.I.N.G. and U.N.A.C.C.E.P.T.A.B.L.E. behaviour. If I knew where ‘wee’ Davey lived I’d be generous to send him a Dictionary.

  • Missionary Kid

    Where can we contribute to Mark Bunker’s campaign?

    • WildaBeast

      I guess he hasn’t actually registered to run yet </3. So I don't think there's a campaign fund yet to contribute to. But I'm sure that if and when he does register, our Clearwater Bunkeroos will let us know within 60 seconds of it happening. At that point he's going to get money from all over the country – hell, all over the world!

  • BosonStark

    “And this course is going to give you the complete size, thickness, and nature of the handle of said iron cover. It’s a secret — it’s been a secret for a long time.”

    Where would we be without a babbloon like Ron revealing these secrets. No one has “all the answers” quite like Ron. But, is it really that much of a secret anymore?

  • ze moo

    Doesn’t trench coat guy know that running around desert sand dunes dressed up in black is a good way to get heat exhaustion? When ever I see such things I think of Tina Turners ‘We Don’t Need Another Hero’, from the Mad Max movie. “Two men enter, one man leaves”, sort of describes the clam mindset. You will leave with Lroons mindset or else.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVPq-_t-ANw

  • noseinabk
    • Sergeant Pepper

      “They were with me every day after Jett died. They even travelled
      with me when I needed to get away. And for a solid two years it was like
      that.”

      I bet they were, can’t have JT blowing the cult.

      • WildaBeast

        But hey, make it sound like supportive friends instead of people sent by DM to keep an eye on him.

      • Shirley Eugeste

        Yep, that statement is certainly an eyebrow-raiser, or an eye-bugger-outer… While this falls short of “Freudian Slip” level of subconscious self-revelation, it’s easy to look at it as a thinly veiled cry for help. My son died, I need to get away, but they are watching me, following me, and it’s been years.

        Obviously that’s not what he said, nor is it even a paraphrase, and yet that’s the “meaning” that jumps out at me.

        And also obvious is that there is NO RULE SIX whoops, sorry… I mean obvious that there’s no such thing as a Freudian slip in Scientology. The phenomenon must exist, but is it acknowledged? If so, how is it accounted for/interpreted? And what is it called?

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f_p0CgPeyA

        (Sorry, I’ve just been exposed to my young relatives and their chronic pythonism. I’ve got mine pretty much under control, but will always be susceptible to relapse.)

      • Sunny Sands

        That’s what your family is for. Unless you’ve disconnected from them.

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        Exactly, Sergeant P.

      • Barbara Angel

        JT does all the blowing…. Especially to male masseurs.

  • Captain Howdy

    The Trenchcoat Mafia meets the desert.
    Instead of “Lawrence of Arabia”
    Church of Scientology presents “Tristan of Teegeeack”

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      I’d like to see Return of the Sci’s vs Return of the Jedi’s played out on that sand dune. Fun times.

      • Sherbet

        Oh, gosh, TheHole, we were on the same wavelength!

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Hey wait a sec. The Jedi’s outnumber the Sci’s by how much again? Oh cringe, I remember when I used to think there were a million or two. It’s one of those big shocks for those peeling the onion to find out how few scientologists are really around, although a Lot starts to make sense when this sinks in. Still, would love to see that movie… Jedi vs Sci

    • Sherbet

      Where’s a Sarlacc when you want one…

      • Captain Howdy

        Being more of a Trekkie than a Star Wars fan, I had to look that up.

        I hearsayed “what do you call a Star Wars fan?” and the two most popular answers were “virgin” and “nerd”.

        • WildaBeast

          B-b-but EVERYONE has to sheath their lightsaber SOMEWHERE, sometime!

    • Anonymous

      That’s hilarious!

  • Bea

    Mark Bunker for mayor of Clearwater! Talk about a red rag to a bull!! Captain Blackheart is going to go ballistic when he hears this one – especially since he seems to be spending more time in town. I say “go for it” wise bearded one.

  • hansje brinker

    Thought Stopping.
    (refresh)

  • Anonymous

    In addition to the various thought stopping mechanisms that Hubbard carefully installed into the practices of Scientology (no verbal tech, no casual discussion of your “case”, no debate about church policies, no public display of mis-emotion about the cost of services, etc.) there is this:

    In almost every situation where talking about the above things IS allowed it is either:

    1.) In a formally controlled environment such as “Ethics” where the outcome is carefully orchestrated to benefit the church not the individual Scientologist, or

    2.) In another formally controlled enveironement such as an auditing, sec check or QUAL session where the person who wants to talk about the above issues has to PAY MONEY in order to do so.

    Scientology, where Hubbard claims that “communication is the universal solvent,” requires that its adherents PAY MONEY in order to resolve their individual concerns with organizational Scientology.

    Scientology is a forever-money-making-machine because the organization decides what you get to talk about and how much you will pay for the privilege.

    • Mooser

      I finally figured out the name of the thing I’ve been trying to figure out since I started. It’s called ‘the lines of authority’. What are the ‘lines of authority’ in Scientology? Yes, we assume David Miscavige has gathered most if not all, the authority in his hands, but how does it work from there on down?

      • EnthralledObserver

        The hierarchy nobody seems to know. I am confident Makemerich can’t be doing it all alone, but no-one seems to be able to cough up a ‘line of authority’ as such, as you put it.

      • Anonymous

        Sorry for the delayed response…I’ve been busy on other stuff.

        I found this in answer to your question, although with the shrinkage of the church, the defection (or internment in The Hole) of most of it’s senior management, as well as the passage of time, I simply do not know how accurate this is any longer.

        I post it probably as more of a historical document rather than an accurate description of what is in operation today. Hope it is of some use.

  • Sarah James

    Marty has OSA sightings on his post. One picture is some fat @ss OSA standing outside behind Mosey and the baby. I know they are there to intimidate but those $”‘#% just make me angry. Mosey who was never in and William who is so tiny.
    David Miscavige is such a coward and OSA is just slime.

    • aegerprimo

      Isn’t the TRO still in effect?

      • Mooser

        They aren’t going to violate the TRO at the very court from which it originated? Oh boy.

      • Sarah James

        Yes, but when has Miscavige ever followed the rule of law? You know I got to hand it to him, he is a beyond hope.

  • Observer

    I tried to make this less wordy, but I couldn’t think of any other way to highlight the point to someone who isn’t as familiar with Scientology as we are.

  • Observer

    Re the video: So which is it, Ron? Something everyone knows, or something that has been a secret for a long time? Idiot.

    • I couldn’t keep watching. I stopped at complete unknowns. OMG such garbled shite.
      Did he use scripts our outlines or just drop a few tabs and away we go?

      • Observer

        My guess is the latter.

      • OrangySky

        I’m pretty sure he was extemporaneous. Which is why there is no logic, and why he contradicts himself over and over. The lies are flying out of his butt too fast for him to note which ones he’s already told.

    • Artoo45

      My parter and I like to listen to these and play Name That Logical Fallacy™ as we go along. Hubbard’s grasp of philosophy seemed to stop somewhere around 13 years-old. Today’s sample was full of Begging The Question. I just begged for it to stop.

    • media_lush

      what’s the link for you shoops again?

  • Artoo45

    This photo of the lovely Mosey and her babe being surveilled by inept-yet-still-irritating-as-hell thugs makes me completely apoplectic. I want to hit something. But I’m a pacifist, so I’ll just write another chapter of J&D about their cowardly, bloviating, megalomaniacal, pathological liar of a founder. I said good day sir!

    • aurora50
      • Mooser

        They’ll need to let the police and court know of this. Isn’t the TRO in force all through the trial?

      • Artoo45

        D’oh! 😛 Thanks!

    • Captain Howdy

      Unless the restraining order states that no scientologist can be within a certain distance from Monique there isn’t anything that can be done. and no court is going to issue an order that broad. They can’t surveil or harass her, but that’s an entirely different matter.

      • Cat Daddy

        Moxon got agressive

        • Artoo45

          That shitbag better hope there’s no afterlife.

          • Cat Daddy

            If he get’s one he will be burning in Hubbards Asshole forever

            • Artoo45

              I think being locked in a short-circuiting, underground transformer vault for eternity would be more appropriate.

          • Sarah James

            Shitbag, that’s the term I was searching for.

      • Mooser

        Heck, all Miscavige has to say is “go there”. These are unstable people who will be sure to provoke something before its over. Are they even aware of the TRO? Give them time to work themselves up, dare the line, come closer. Gee, maybe if we make a feint towards the kid, Mosey will go nuts… Give them a little time.

        • Cat Daddy

          I sure hope this isn’t a sleezy Moxon ploy to agitate to get things backfire.

          • Mooser

            Why even bother with a ploy? Just wind ’em up and let ’em go!

        • Captain Howdy

          Bottom line, as unacceptable as it is to the more emotional around here, they aren’t breaking the letter of the law..yet.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Yes, yes he most definitely is breaking the letter. He’s breaking, stomping it, and waving his ass in the face of the judge and the law. Not even trying to hide it!

            • Barbara Angel

              But, but, but…. Judge sir… splutter, splutter this is all part of our Religion, we always stalk people. 16 Lawyers later, Oh so *stalking* and harassing people is not allowed???? How unfair to our *Religion*….

          • Robert Eckert

            They are, in fact.

      • Observer

        According to the TRO doc posted on scribd, they are also prohibited from “following, pursuing, stalking or ‘tailing'” her. I’d say showing up everywhere she goes qualifies as both following and tailing, if not outright stalking.

        http://www.scribd.com/doc/161973862/Monique-Rathbun-Temporary-Restraining-Order

      • Barbara Angel

        Yes but Judge Waldrip is quietly Watching & this will do ***NOTHING*** to help Co$ Yes your Honor this is just a normal part of our *Religious* Stalking Code. Hahahaha good luck with that Co$..

    • Sunny Sands

      What are those 2 people in the background doing?

      • Eclipse-girl

        They need a picture of the child to use in the next issue of Freedum mag.

        They are lower than low, slimey effing bastards

    • Barbara Angel

      Agree x 1,000 Sickening stuff by a Shameless Megalomaniac. At last the clock is ticking, Judge Waldrip will be having something to say about this latest episode of *Religious* Stalking. Another Foot Bullet by Co$ gosh are they really this Stupid or just Completely out of touch with reality? What is in there Dictionary about *UNACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOUR*? Oh wait those words have been deleted.

  • 3feetback-of-COS

    I really enjoy the interviews with Jon.

    So many of the points he make really resonate with me.

    Even though I have not set foot in an org in 30 years, it helps getting the last annoying vestiges of the cult out of my mind!

  • media_lush

    funniest Leah Remini reveal ever….

    • Artoo45

      Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrr! Pfttttttttt! Ouch! So much for the whole “taking the high road” thing . . .

      • Missionary Kid

        At least she didn’t call public attention to the costume or tweet about it.

    • Missionary Kid

      Would have liked to have seen that.

      • media_lush

        they obviously exist…… the fact that they do should be driving Krustie mad

        • Missionary Kid

          I don’t want to give Krusty any ammunition, as much as a cat fight would make people happy, I’d rather have Leah nuke her at a time and place with a methord of her own choosing.

    • Barbara Angel

      Hahahahaha I read some where that Kirstie confessed that Fried Chicken was just *one* of her many food weaknesses. Too bad all the Co$ tech can’t seem to help her with that?

  • Gerard Plourde

    “Milestone One” – Another Ron snake oil sales pitch.

    • Artoo45

      More like Millstone One . . .

  • I hope no one is taking these thought stopping methods that Atack is presenting too seriously. The existence of this blog, other anti-DM blogs, the whole Ron’s Org network (which is probably bigger or at least delivers more than the CofS network) and many others practicing variations of Scn out from under the church is proof that they don’t work.

    • 3feetback-of-COS

      No, for the tens of thousands of people that were in for various lengths of time, they did work, at least for a while. In some cases, it screwed their lives up for decades.

      • Well, yeah, all kinds of stuff works for a while. Some stuff works for a long time. Goldman Sachs comes to mind. Fox News. Barack Obama. The list goes on.

        • Mooser

          “Some stuff works for a long time.”

          I suggested a one-to-one ratio, Joe. That is, for every year a person spent in Scientology, they need a year out to recover. Does that sound reasonable to you?

          • I don’t think it takes that long. At least it didn’t seem to for me. I reconnected with my family right away, started teaching myself to paint, got into the NFL playoffs, the whole nine yards.

        • Barbara Angel

          Hahahahah

    • Michael Leonard Tilse

      So we should not examine the tactic of thought-stopping? Is that not in itself a thought-stopping tactic?

      That someone or many someones are able to eventually throw off the thought-stopping is not itself evidence that thought-stopping is not effective or serious.

      And I would submit that the Indies and the Ron’s Org are evidence of the continuing power of the thought-stopping constructs that permeate scientology.

      • 3feetback-of-COS

        Exactly!

      • Artoo45

        Exactly.

      • Of course, examine them. Just realize they aren’t all that effective over time.

        • Captain Howdy

          Of course, just like the tech.

          • Do you have any personal experience with that?

            • Anonymous

              He doesn’t, but a close relative of his does.

            • Christ, he’s making my point for me then.

            • Captain Howdy

              Only through reading and research, same thing with ghosts, ESP, telekinesis, astral projection etc. My stupid sister has been in CofS for almost 40 years, does that count?

            • Not any more than MY sister’s experience with born again Christianity gives me personal experience with that.

            • Eclipse-girl

              Born Again christianity also practices thought stopping. The answer to any and all questions that you have can be found in the bible.

            • OrangySky

              And Jesus finds me parking spaces.

            • Cat Daddy

              Watch out for that Guy according to Hubbard he loves kids too much

            • Barbara Angel

              Me Too, gosh he must be so Busy at peak hour.

            • Barbara Angel

              Naaah the answers to how to fix your Car; Air Con, Microwave, cell phone, TV, computer, oven etc are not in the Bible so therefore they really should dispense with all these fancy time saving devices. Heeheehee Evil Cackle…. I have no time for hypocritical dullards. My ex -Born Again friends have shut down their capacity for objective thinking and replaced it with Blind Ignorance.

            • Eclipse-girl

              Mr E’s parents went though an evangelical conversion when he was 16 or 17. Prior to that they wanted encouraged his curiosity and looked things up in reference books.

              It was very tough on him, and it is a huge reason why tolerates this obsession of mine, but doesn’t want to know a thing about it.

            • Barbara Angel

              Sorry that happened to him EG. Two dear friends of mine have both become Born Agains and are not longer the same people. For one of them, I actually did suggest that the Bible is one of the most misused books in history and that people distort the teachings to suit their own agenda. End of that friendship due to the ‘devil’ influencing my behaviour???? Sad huh… The other one is only a ‘part time’ Born Again, when it suits her???
              I cannot bear injustice which is why I’ve become a Rabid Anti-Scam person.

            • Eclipse-girl

              I do not like anything that doesn’t allow you to question it. Many religions allows such questions and even encourage questions.

              I am sorry for the loss of friends. That is hard. But you have gone so far beyond them in questioning, and investigation. We (The Bunker) are your new friends.

            • Barbara Angel

              Thank you EG that was lovely. One major button presser for me is Co$ calling themselves a Religion? WTF? Thanks again to Tommy Davis for behaving in such a *Revolting* way, without that I would never have become interested in Co$ and its crimes against humanity. The Vicious behaviour of Co$ is just soooooo Shocking no genuine Church is so lacking in basic kindness or love. The claims to Religious freedom to justify Criminal Behaviour is an obscenity of the worst kind. I’m so grateful to all those Super Brave survivors, who escaped and shared their stories with us. Sometimes the feelings and outrage at Co$ are so intense I stay away from this site for a few days. My heart really goes out to all those still trapped and tooooooo scared to leave, don’t have anything to leave with, the certainty of loosing family and friends, the probability of being ‘fair gamed’ etc And yet Co$ dogmatically claims it is a Religion, how twisted and deceitful they are. The GOOD news is… the Internet…. And the propensity for regular Co$ foot bullets. Tick Tock Mustravage your days are numbered and justice shall prevail. You know EG, I would really love to see Mustravage being held accountable in a Court of Law…. complete with Victim Impact statements.
              Do you reckon he would eventually get it? Or just give lip service to shorten his sentence?

            • Eclipse-girl

              I grew up in a main steam protestant denomination. We were aware of other christians denominations and other religions. I do not remember ever saying that “we are right and you are wrong.” I always thought of it as tolerance and acceptance of differences. I like Diversity.

              As to the Demented Maggot, I do not know. Yes, put him on trial for RCIO, corruption, inurement etc. Put him on trial for holding people prisoner, for using children as slave labor, for human trafficking. There should be absolutely no reason to shorten hi sentence. There have been too many who died.

              Does he believe in this shit? I can’t say. Marty certainly believed. Mike still does believe. It leads me to think the Davey could really believe. But I think Davey is a stupid POS, a bully who if threatened doesn’t know how to do anything accept a frontal attack.

            • Barbara Angel

              ‘Demented Maggot’ hahaha love it. Acceptance of Diversity brings with it the gift of love and tolerance for all mankind. Yes some believe in this shit, but the Demented Maggot certainly does not i.e. He does not and as far as I’ve read subject himself to auditing nor (it is written) has he personally done all the levels? He leaves that to the clams & just appears to *relish* his role as Cruel Dictator. He certainly believes LRH that Co$ is a great way to make Moare Moneeeeeeeeeee. But how much money is enough???
              Imagine him having to face Court with all his crimes notated? He wouldnt be able to feel the slightest bit of remorse. Part of his mental illness is a sense of Magnified ***ENTITLEMENT*** He believes he deserves ‘every good thing’ and others deserve nothing….
              When he leaves the planet someone should pack out his coffin with as much monopoly money as possible, so he gets to be buried with his “Greatest Love”. Disgusting little creature/maggot.

            • Eclipse-girl

              When David was a young teen, he was removed from auditing.

              His father, Ron Sr. came home in 1972 and decided the family should all try scientology. Supposedly, it helped David with his bad asthma. After deciding that scientology was wonderful, the whole family packed up and moved to East Grimsted and started taking classes and auditing at Saint Hill.

              David was hailed as the youngest ever auditor, a wunderkind. Something happened. David hit or slapped the woman he was auditing. THAT IS A HUGE NO NO. Karen de la Carrierre, of the videos that we often watch, was training at Saint Hill and has verified this.

              David and the family moved back to Philadelphia. Ron Jr joined the Sea Org. David was stuck in HS. At !6, David was able to join the Sea Org and the rest is history.

              It has been said that David has taken all the administrative classes that scientology offers. I do not know if you can proceed up the bridge if you can not audit. A good deal of the early stuff of going up the bridge requires you to be audited, but you also audit another. This people are usually twinned for a specific course. David can’t do that stuff.

            • Buttons72

              Interesting, E-g. Thanks for the history here…

            • Barbara Angel

              Yes, I remember McSlappy began slapping people at a young age and slapped a women during a session. Hahahaha a propensity towards viciousness at a young age. Some have written that has refused to be audited, perhaps because he feels it doesn’t work anyway? Or if it did, his vile thoughts toward others would be officially on record. What do reckon the value of Co$ administration classes would be? The clear lack of formal education and reading and writing skills of a Co$ education don’t amount to much. It appears he has a natural talent for lying & scamming i.e. changing the punctuation in the books and insisting that “everyone” by complete new sets. Not much to be proud of for McSlappy, I’m guessing he would be resentful of those that have a proper education. Do you know if he’s still asthmatic? Or is that another of his filthy little secrets he keeps hidden?

            • Eclipse-girl

              Of course, McSlappy is jealous of those who are educated, and who can write in a coherent manner. I think one reason Tom Cruise became his best friend is because Tom also lacks an education. It is assumed that since David suffered from ( ? severe) asthma in childhood he still suffers from it. Add to that his smoking habit.

            • Captain Howdy

              So we both have stupid sisters? It’s a small world after all. Here’s to the end of magical thinking on planet earth, Dan, because it’s the only way the planet is going to survive.

            • No disagreement from me on that point!

            • Missionary Kid

              IMO, my sister’s lifetime association with fundamentalist Christianity (except fro a few months in Dianetics) constitutes the same kind of thought stopping. Her present day life is interpreted according to the interpretation she follows of a book that’s newest part is nearly two millenia old, and the oldest dates from the bronze age.

              As with all fundamentalists, she picks and chooses. She herself is divorced, yet has not called for a stoning of herself. There is far more written in both the OT and NT against divorce than homosexuality.

            • Sibs

              Not to start a derail by answering your comment, but that was my thought as I was rereading this article (rereading because I originally read it at 5am before I’d had any sleep). But at least historically there are reasons why the Bible contradicts itself – mainly that it was written by many different authors with very different agendas. Despite what some fundamentalists believe and unlike with Scientology, there wasn’t ONE author who spewed conflicting ideology to confuse people into going to the organization itself for help even more.

            • Missionary Kid

              Not only that, but the translations have all added to the variations of both interpretation and understanding, as well as different texts.

              I refer everyone to Bart D. Ehrman’s Misquoting Jesus. A lecture by Bart on the subject is available on Youtube.

            • Barbara Angel

              Yep MK I get it; if its not in the Bible then its no good. Tell her to get rid of her: Car, Phone, Microwave, TV, Computer etc because its not mentioned in the Bible. That’ll shut her up & hopefully stop her from being a total hypocrite. The Born Agains are neatly narrow minded, when it suits them…….. not to mention ridiculously Judgemental? Ask her what Jesus would say about her latest Judgement? Grrrrrrrrrrrrr

            • Missionary Kid

              As I said, it’s pick and choose what they follow. Someone convinced her that cats had evil spirits, which is a carry-over from some medieval crap. Me? Sometimes I’m willing to go along with that, especially for unhappy purebred cats, like Siamese. (I’m kidding).

              She wouldn’t avoid things not mentioned in the bible, but she tries to follow what she interprets what is mentioned in the bible.

              Believe me, there’s enough different interpretations of the bible to cover all justifications of behavior.

            • Barbara Angel

              I hate cats, they piss all over the door step and when its mating time, they make absolutely horrific noises under my window. Dogs poop all over the footpath and the owners rarely clean it up. They should all be eaten, lucky I’m a vego. Do you think my need to get rid of dogs and cats might be found in the Bible too? If so the next Born Again’s that feel compelled to come *Witnessing* at my front door will be given a severe Interrogation. If its a yes on getting rid of cats and dogs, I’ll be joining up. Heehee Evil Cackle. And before all you meat and pet lovers start attacking, if you eat meat why not eat dogs & cats too?

            • Missionary Kid

              What I would suggest is some dog and cat repellent. I don’t know how well it works, but I would think it would keep them away from your door step. One cat marked your door step, and others followed to mark it with their scent and cover up the previous one. Their noses are far more sensitive to odors than ours, and they have a different set of value judgements about what those smells mean.

              I like cats – when they belong to someone else. For both cats and dogs, I almost always automatically pet them. I get along with dogs well, and if I could, I’d have another one.

            • Barbara Angel

              Yep, anti-cat spray works temporarily but I’m not going to pat anything that licks its own bum with serious dedication and then tries to lick Me. Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeek

            • Missionary Kid

              There are pellets you can put out that will probably last longer.

            • Barbara Angel

              Yep, but my friend has three bum licker’s and for some ‘strange’ reasons they keep trying to lick my hand? She lets them lick her face????? Eeeeeeek

            • Missionary Kid

              Unless you have an open cut, the skin is excellent protection against bacteria. That’s why the old wives tale about picking up disease from toilet seats is just that.

              The bacteria gets into your system by transferal from your skin to your mouth. That’s why it’s important to wash your hands before you eat, and using a knife and fork reduces the possibility of moving bacteria into your system.

              I’m not worried about petting cats and dogs. I don’t kiss dogs or cats on the mouth. On the other hand, I’m not a germiphobe. We use far too many antibacterial products, so that the germs have become stronger. IMO, Purell may end up being one of the worst things for mankind. Soap and water (washing well) is good enough.

              I was raised by a nurse who was very conscious of disease, who kept us from getting sick in a very dangerous environment for disease — mid-century China.

            • Barbara Angel

              Yes dear MK, but these dirty bum lickers are full of worms and those tiny eggs find their way, one way or another into your body. Worm tablets for pets are not a foolproof guarantee. Dogs eat anything, my sisters dogs are rather fond of possum poo and any other savoury delight they can lick up, sorry just way too yucky for me.

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          Yes these thought-stopping techniques are “effective over time.” If someone has a relative in Scientology for 40 years, who has been practicing thought stopping for all of their adult life or perhaps their entire life, then we can see that it lasts a long time. Some people die or kill themselves before they get out – as you know there is a high death rate (cancer and suicide) among Scientologists.

    • Captain Howdy

      But Dan, they seemingly worked fairly well on you for a few decades.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      The fact that SOME exes have gotten away from SOME of the mind control mechanisms preached by LRH doesn’t negate that these are actual mind control mechanisms that have been shown to be effective. The thought-stopping keeps lots of still-ins from being able to acknowledge and look at their own doubts. They are trained to believe that they pulled in their doubts, and trained to repress them.

      • Maybe the world exists as a learning experience and everyone has their own lessons to learn.

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          I like the notion that the world exists as a learning experience and everyone has their own lessons to learn. I am just so sad about those who are trapped behind barbed wire and in a prison of their own minds, and can’t learn these lessons because they have been beaten down (physically and mentally) for so long.

          • Me, too. I have some really good friends still in there. Some lessons are harder to learn than others I guess, or take longer.

            • Free Minds, Free Hearts

              I hope your friends get out, and my people too.

        • Shirley Eugeste

          Leaving Earth out of the discussion (I don’t want to make this a science vs. religion debate), of course we all have our own lessons to learn, us and every other sentient being, always have, always will. I don’t understand how this relates to a discussion on the existence and efficacy of “mind control.” Ads for the next presidential election should be starting (officially) any second now. We’ll be bombarded with constant attempts at mind control, but hopefully we’ve learned to be at least a little discerning by the time we’re old enough to vote.

          Mind control… exploitative persuasion… works sometimes. “Sometimes” is far less relevant than “works.” Was it successful for Hubbard? Clearly. Do we take Atack seriously? Of course. In my case, because the information he provides has proven to be reliable and substantive, and he is backed by more people who provide reliable and substantive information.

          I hope no one is taking these thought stopping methods that Atack is presenting too seriously. The existence of this blog, other anti-DM blogs … is proof that they don’t work.

          Tony Ortega’s Underground Bunker is an “anti-DM blog”? Isn’t that a bit like calling the BBC a “media outlet”? (COS lawyer to judge re John Sweeney, couple of days ago.) The fact that more and more people are speaking out against Scientology proves that more and more people are speaking out against Scientology. In and of itself it neither proves nor disproves “mind control.” Or voodoo, for that matter. (Maybe I’m having trouble typing because of voodoo… maybe it’s because my keyboard and my cat don’t both fit on my lap at the same time.)

          • The reason I called it an anti-DM blog because without DM this blog and most of the others wouldn’t exist. There wouldn’t be a need. I was in the SO for nearly 27 years and was subject to the same “scriptures” as DM. Neither I nor many others pulled the stuff that DM has pulled. DM has used LRH’s writings and lectures to justify his behaviors like fundamentalist Muslims, Christians and Jews use their scriptures to justify their actions. A lot of people here want to blame most everything on LRH. I choose to blame most of it on DM. I knew and worked with them both so my opinion is based on a lot of personal observations.

            • Shirley Eugeste

              I have never been a Scientologist, never knew Hubbard, do not know Miscavige. I’ve been following this blog for a while, can’t really say anything about the others. Yes, it is certainly not a “pro-DM” blog, but its scope is a bit broader than what David Miscavige does or says, or eats for breakfast.

              This Hydra has many heads. And many of those heads have heads (kind of like Scientology?) I think there’s far more going on here than dissing David Miscavige.

            • And my point is that if you cut off just one head the rest would die along with all the blogs, media coverage, etc.

            • Shirley Eugeste

              Why do you think Scientology could survive the lass of Hubbard but not the loss of Miscavige?

            • I’m not talking about Scn, but all the peripheral stuff swirling around Scn.

            • Barbara Angel

              Easy answer to that one. When LRH was in his heyday we didn’t have the INTERNET so his abusive greedy scams were by word of mouth. Anyone who tried to expose them he set out to destroy, see Paulette Cooper story. Now days every act of his Brutal crimes against humanity hits the internet, so he has no place to hide and using lawyers to crush people no longer works in their favour. So Mustravage is in deep doggy doo and his days are NUMBERED. GOD BLESS THE INTERNET, Hip HIP Hooray wee Davey is going down.

            • Shirley Eugeste

              Ah. I see your point. Narcissistic despots flourish when shrouded in mystery. Haul ’em out and hose ’em off, they tend to lose a great deal of their power.

            • Eclipse-girl

              Without DM, there would have been another in his place.
              Didn’t Ron want Pat Broeker to be the one to take over?

              Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

              Perhaps the leader would not have been as ruthless as David was, perhaps the person would have been more ruthless.

              Scientology is corrupt. Ron Hubbard was corrupt. You can claim there was good stuff there. I think people would have been helped just as much by having a decent therapist. And spent a lot less money.

              The only reason this appears to be an “anti – DM” blog is because DM is the current leader.

            • Mooser

              “Neither I nor many others pulled the stuff that DM has pulled. DM has used LRH’s writings and lectures to justify his behaviors”

              DM knew where he was, and what he needed to do. It’s no holiday being in Rome if you can’t do like the Romans!

            • Robert Eckert

              I blame Muhammad for fundamentalist Muslims, Paul for fundamentalist Christians, and whoever wrote Leviticus for fundamentalist Jews. There are only bad things in the scriptures because the authors put them there.

            • Cat Daddy

              Unless you resided in a chain locker

    • L. C. Spencer

      Heh. If they didn’t work, there never would have been a Scientology, and El Ron would have died a little-known has-been pulp-writer.

      • Panopea Abrupta

        He did die a little-known has-been pulp-writer.
        A very rich, very mad, very paranoid and very alone little-known has-been pulp-writer.
        With Vistaril.
        For the vast majority of humanity, he has been a minor or even very minor player, a mere footnote.
        Unfortunately, for those his life has touched through his ravings and malignant narcissism, he has been source for enormous pain, loss and deception in most cases.
        For some, it has been a great deal more grevious.

    • Cat Daddy

      How much Cash did L Ron rake in again ?

  • Shirley Eugeste

    Just to play Hubbard’s advocate (soon-to-be-released remake starring…?), as much of a nightmare as Hubbard was, he clearly did some things right, given the success of the corporate nightmare he created and given the boatloads of cash it continues to generate. Today’s installment from Jon Atack makes me wonder: did Hubbard actually study methods of mind control? Did he stumble upon it independently? Figured out the uses, benefits, and how-to’s on his own?

    • Artoo45

      Good conmen are frequently successful.

      • Shirley Eugeste

        But was there a manual for how to become an evil, stinking rich, soul-crushing despot?

        • Missionary Kid

          How to Win Friends… could be used for good or evil. He chose the latter.

          • Shirley Eugeste

            I guess it could just as easily ally to winning minions, suck-ups, and sycofants. The text on this dust jacket (front and back) is both interesting and creepy if taken in an elronnian context. Zoom dust jacket here:

            http://www.ebay.com/itm/How-to-Win-Friends-and-Influence-People-by-Dale-Carnegie-HC-DJ-0671355007-/131112015002

            • HTWFAIP was popular enough that a parody of it was written the following year, of which I have a copy:

              KIRKUS REVIEW

              This is a slapstick parody of the Dale Carnegie book — ideally designed for that purpose. The first half of the book mimics him, chapter for chapter — then comes some deviation which saves the book from cheapness. The Author defines himself as Head of the Institute for Human Relations up to a Certain Point, which decreases as time goes on. Chapter heads indicate the flavor:- How To Get The Most Out Of This Book, Why It Was Written. How To Make People Dislike You, How To Make A Poor First Impression. How to Offend Your Hostess, etc., all exemplified by case histories and labelled with slogans, such as “”If you can’t bear a person bore him.”” The humor is practical but blatant, all sorts of puns and all-too-mediocre jokes. The title will make
              the anti-Dale Carnegies rush for it. Too bad Thurber didn’t do it.

              https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/irving-tressler/how-to-lose-friends-and-alienate-people-3/

            • Shirley Eugeste

              I’ll see your blockquote…

              Thanks! I’ll take a look at that. Do you know about Stephen Potter (1900 -1969)?

              His series of humorous books on how to secure an unfair advantage began in 1947 withGamesmanship, purporting to show how poor players can beat better ones by subtle psychological ploys.

              The first book in the series is The Theory and Practice of Gamesmanship: Or the Art of Winning Games Without Actually Cheating. I find them all very funny (but VERY un-pc, so be warned…)

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Potter

            • Casabeca

              The original MRA player, wow.

          • Barbara Angel

            Then he wrote his own ‘How to Con Friends’ and then some…………….

            • Missionary Kid

              I’d call his version, How to Con Everyone You Can. You’re aware that Charles Manson used HTWF&IP to recruit and subjugate his followers.

        • Cat Daddy

          Maybe L Ron did read this one

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influence_People

          How to Win Friends and Influence People is one of the first best-selling self-help books ever published. Written by Dale Carnegie and first published in 1936, it has sold 15 million copies world-wide.[1]

          Leon Shimkin of the publishing firm Simon & Schuster took one of the 14-week courses given by Carnegie in 1934. Shimkin persuaded Carnegie to let a stenographer take notes from the course to be revised for publication.

          In 1981, a new revised edition containing updated language and anecdotes was released.[2]
          The revised edition reduced the number of sections from 6 to 4,
          eliminating sections on effective business letters and improving marital
          satisfaction.

          • Shirley Eugeste

            I only mention HTWFAIP for comparison… likewise the self-help comic book cover. Hubbard was already an adult when Carnegie’s book came out and he would almost certainly been aware of it, probably even familiar with it. I wonder if Hubbard was jumping on the Carnegie bandwagon (or maybe just clinging to the sides a bit?) when he wrote Dianetics. I also wonder if Hubbard read Carnegie’s “nice” manipulation tips and thought “I can make people not only do whatever I want, but make them thank me for the privilege”?

    • Cat Daddy

      He was a Hypnotist, they understand how to mess with the unconsious

      • Shirley Eugeste

        Like at a frat party? Or do you mean subconscious?

        • Cat Daddy

          My bad, Subconcious and no in his early days he could make people believe a little Kangaroo was hopping around in their hands

          • Shirley Eugeste

            Sorry, not bad, just a typo… but one that made me giggle.

    • 3feetback-of-COS

      I think there were a number of factors adding up to Hubbard being LRH. for example, his ability to spin yarns, the times he grew up in (depression and WWII), inability to make a good living as a writer, plus his own mental issues.

      All in all, a complex toxic brew.

    • domitare

      According to Lawrence Wright he was a accomplished hypnotist. As for his writting, I am baffled by how much material he has written aside from his fiction. I don’t know of any one else ever having written and filmed and taped so much material. Some stuff is useful and most is just crazy like Atack says.

      • Anonymous

        Hubbard is actually in the Guinness Book of Records as the most prolific author in history.

        • domitare

          I believe that is correct; but how in the heck did he manage to write all the other stuff which is even more that his—forgive me—“non-fiction” stuff. One day I thought I seat down and get an idea and begin to write. What I came up with based on my education was not worth what I wrote it on. This guy wrote Dianetics in 30 days and Fear on a train ride with no revisions and Science of Survival on a trip to Cuba. I’m not trying to excuse him for anything but how does a person do all that writing that on the surface “seems” “reasonable.” Not that it matters now but it is curious.

          • EnthralledObserver

            I think there is a good theory that he was on drugs when he did those writings (I’m thinking ‘speed’… but not sure). Quantity, NOT quality.

          • Eclipse-girl

            Have you ever tried to read it? i have read small passages of scientology BS and its gibberish.

            I do believe he was using amphetamines when he was staying up all night writing.

          • Anonymous

            It is impressive, even if he was just pulling stuff out of his ass. To even read as many books as he wrote would be impressive.

            • Panopea Abrupta

              Not.
              His stuff is turgid balderdash.

              What would be impressive would be if he had written even 1 book worth preserving.

              Joyce did not write that much that was published, but Ullyses and the Wake will live for centuries.

              Lao Tsu wrote 600 words. We will cherish them for another couple of milleniea.

              The titanium plates will be buried with Hubbard’s dreck in one earthquake.

        • Shirley Eugeste

          Do you know how many of his books were self-published?

          • Anonymous

            Probably quite a few, but at least his earlier stuff was put out by traditional book publishers.

    • Sibs

      I was just in the middle of looking back at previous articles. Jon Atack talked about this two weeks ago.
      http://tonyortega.org/2014/01/25/jon-atack-do-scientologys-training-routines-turn-you-into-a-sociopath/

      Also if you read Bare-Faced Messiah, the book goes into detail about Hubbard hypnotizing his friends. I don’t have a page reference here because I used the online version.

      • Shirley Eugeste

        Thanks. It’s so easy to miss stuff.

      • Mooser

        And never forget: Hubbard’s brand of psycho, techno, and spiritual babble was just right for the times.

        • Cat Daddy

          EXACTLY. Every time has it’s own conmen

  • Mark

    Sorry about this, but my thoughts stopped dead at the phrase “False Data Stripping” (refresh; eye-bleach has been provided):

    • 3feetback-of-COS

      ouch. that hurt my eyes.

      • Mark

        You should have read the instructions on the back of the bottle first.

    • Anonymous

      My eyes! My eyes!

    • Shirley Eugeste

      Doing the Dance of the Eight Levels?

      (Hey Mark, feel like taking a swing at either the dust jacket or comic book cover below?)

      • Mark

        MAD magazine got there first with Charles Atlas:

        • Shirley Eugeste

          lol… thanks!

    • Shirley Eugeste

      Is “Ron” wearing stockings? Or pantyhose bunched up in the crotch? And in either case, why would “he” be doing that?

      • Mark

        If he’s “data-stripping”, they’d better be stockings, or his act’s going to have a very undignified finale.

        • Shirley Eugeste

          I think we lost our dignity a long, long time ago.

      • Barbara Angel

        Kinky really, really, kinky and now the secret is OUT….

        • Shirley Eugeste

          Just strikes me as odd that with oh so much exposed flesh, “Ron” would bother with what appear to be utilitarian sheer nudes. Maybe even support sheer nudes.

    • Observer

      Thanks for remembering the eye bleach. I think I’m gonna need a bigger bottle though.

      • Eclipse-girl

        That is only enough for one eye.

        • Mark

          What?! It’s at least a two-litre bottle if it’s on the same scale as El Ronita!

          • Eclipse-girl

            Like I said only enough for one eye

            • Mark

              Oh, very well. Here you go:

            • Eclipse-girl

              TY . it helps.

    • jeff

      This is one of the funniest!

    • Barbara Angel

      Hahahahahah have you been spying through his/her bedroom window again?

  • OrangySky

    Mark Bunker! Safepointing Clearwater for the Evil SP Wogs, at last! Now we just need an Evil SP to safepoint Riverside and Los Angeles County and maybe some real justice will be done.

  • Michael Leonard Tilse

    Thinking about thought and thought-stopping.

    Thinking to me is figuring out, finding answers, posing questions, constructing possible causes for the effects I see.

    To think, to have thought, I have to not be certain, to not KNOW ALREADY. I have to use my mind to explore possible answers and see if they fit. I frequently ask questions because things don’t make sense and I want them to make sense. Thought is trying to find the answers that make sense, that explain things. My thought is a combination of observing, asking questions, observing, trying out answers, testing answers, observing… etc. It is arriving at viewpoints or conclusions or answers by a self controlled process process that is not limited.

    It is not simply searching for someone else’s answers or conclusions or statements.

    Thought stopping is anything that would inhibit this self controlled process.

    As a scientologist, I was encouraged to accept hubbard’s answers over my own. Hubbard’s altitude was positioned as such that my own efforts were discounted. Disagreeing with hubbard was very hard because the culture of scientology is that hubbard is always right. So not only are you wrong for disagreeing with hubbard, but disagreeing was a hostile supressive act.

    Word clearing reinforces this, by making disagreement equal misunderstanding. Disagreement with hubbard is supressive. Disagreement comes from misunderstood words. Thus passing a misunderstood word is supressive.

    I found that within scientology the highest level of thought was to find the hubbard reference that gave a useful answer. Independent creative thought, unless it was a combining of hubbard statements and policies, was discouraged.

    This is the thought stopping: Replacing the finding of answers through your own thought processes with the finding of hubbard’s ready-made answers.

    When I would have observed and thought and hypothesized and tested before scientology, I replaced that with looking up hubbard references or definitions or lectures that somehow seemed appropriate and installing that as my conclusion or answer or response. It stopped my own thought. It was a barrier to my own thought and evaluation.

    When hubbard’s solutions and explanations were reduced to sound bites and catch phrases and generalizations, these lived in my mind and presented themselves unbidden as truth. And I acted on them.

    This is the way I was programed. This was how I was twisted into programming myself.

    • Eclipse-girl

      Nice essay. it is one to save.

    • aegerprimo

      Excellent.

    • OrangySky

      So well said Michael.
      THIS: “This is the thought stopping: Replacing the finding of answers through your own thought processes with the finding of hubbard’s ready-made answers.”
      This is what I still see over at Mike & Marty’s (& the occasional brave indie visitor here) – the pretzeling of all questions and their possible answers into Hubbard quotes and references.
      It apparently passes for intellect and scholarliness – knowing the exact Hubbard reference for the exact right occasion.

  • Observer

    Couldn’t resist. It’s what popped into my head as I watched the video, even before I read Marc’s account of the filming.

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      The Scilon cross on the under-construction Death Star! Would you put that on a larger scale sometime? I mean, just the Scilon Death Star, but as it would appear in space.

      • Observer

        Live to serve.

  • Michael Leonard Tilse

    Thank you Jon for yet another excellent analysis of the scientology mindwarp.

  • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

    Alexa update for Feb. 7: *refresh for images*

    Tony: US rank #15,674 – up 188 from yesterday.
    Scientology: US rank #43,489 – up 1,362 from yesterday.

    Difference: 27,815 – 1,174 less than yesterday.

    • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

      Here is also the latest report from Google Trends. It shows the search traffic for Scientology for the last month, up to and including Feb. 6. It shows the spike, and subsequent decline of search traffic from the SB commercails. From the biggest spike it took only three days for traffic to reach normal levels again.

      Big shock 🙂

      *refresh for image*

      • Mark

        Oh, I’m {so}, {so) {surprised}. Now the precipitous descent into nonentity can resume – all that money down the drain for nothing, eh, Shortarse? And did the ads fool any of your minute flock of dupes/whales? Of course not.

  • Priscilla

    It was good to see Mark Bunker at work again. I’ve missed him!

  • Racnad

    A particular devious method of Scientology thought stopping is the redefinition of words. Reasonable becomes a negative, so when your supervisor is being unreasonable, that’s a good thing! Natter and Black PR are bad, regardless of whether they are true or not. So when the truth is not good, the “good” Scientologist must shelter himself from the truth.

    • Shirley Eugeste

      Devious, insidious, and effective. Also very relative. Tip of the iceberg: feminist is not a bad word, no matter how hard “the other side” tries to make it one. A theater-person friend of mine tells me everyone does “My Fair Lady” and no one does “Pygmalion” because community theater audiences here don’t like Shaw’s feminist ending.

      Excuse, I have to go lie down.

      • Mooser

        “everyone does “My Fair Lady” and no one does “Pygmalion””

        I think the music in “My Fair Lady” is much better than the music for “Pygmalion”.

      • Racnad

        Good point – how about anything that contains the word social, as in socialism?

    • Eclipse-girl

      It also helps separate the follower from the public. You can’t carry on a meaningful dialogue if the definitions of regular words are not agreed upon by both parties

      • Cat Daddy

        Like Sympathy being low on the tonescale

        • domitare

          That is one I had to reasses for myself once out.

          • Cat Daddy

            The onley thing that makes any sence to be so low would be a pitty play, wich can be derived from a small bit of Hubbards definition wich is certainly not a webster definition.

            Other than than sympathy is a rather good human emotion and pro survival on the 4th dynamic.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vN6-1Zeg2w

            • Baby

              Wow Cat.. Beautiful.. So haunting.. just bookmarked it..thank you

      • Shirley Eugeste

        Right. And what may seem completely innocuous to one person, might be setting off all kinds of bells and whistles and fire alarms in another person’s head. Tom Cruise, of course, springs to mind.

        Orwell’s “doublspeak” gets mentioned a lot in Scientology discussions. In the essay “Politics and the English Language” (1946), he covers some similar ground. If he were alive today, I suspect his head would be exploding on a pretty regular basis.

        https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm

    • Michael Leonard Tilse

      I have found that it is really difficult to get across to a scientologist, (after I was out and was trying to help some friends who were still in) that the message about entheta is not necessarily itself ‘entheta.’ This confusion is why some scientologists shield themselves from the truth, which if grasped, would surely enturbulate their thetan.

      I made the analogy of the combat photographer:

      On D-Day, WWII, the carnage on Omaha Beach was overwhelming. Dead and dying, the calls of anguish and screams of pain. Horrendous.

      The combat photographers took photos, motion pictures. They documented hell.

      So now we, can see at least a small slice of what happened, how it was.

      The reality of Omaha Beach on that day could arguably be called an example of confused life energy, torn and enmeshed in a tumble of jumbled matter, energy, space and time. A turbulent eddy of theta and mest. Entheta. That day, that beach, was entheta.

      Yet how do we consider the documents of that time? Is the documentation that allows us to know about that horror itself entheta? Can just the passing on of evidence of that truth be tarred with the same brush? Is it evil just to relay the images or the account of it?

      I don’t think so. I don’t think that the documentation or discussion or reporting of D-Day can itself be called entheta simply because it is about entheta.

      Yet, as a scientologist I would instantly label any reporting or discussion of things I didn’t want to hear about my group as entheta. I would reject it without even examining it as potentially a report of truth or of value.

      It was automatically to my mind a bad thing, not to be listened to or viewed or thought about. That was thought stopping.

      I also knew that to view or participate or listen would likely upset me, and just the chance of that and the cost of the auditing required to “handle it” or the ethics actions to “handle me” made it prohibitive.

      That was thought stopping too.

      So, before a report of an upsetting thing about scientology or scientologists, no matter how true or documented, can get through to the thinking part of a scientologist, it has to get past that label: Entheta.

      So that is why I keep coming back to the idea that it is what the scientologist has already experienced, the injustice, the nonsense, the abuse, the crush regging, that is the key to them beginning to see that something is wrong. You can’t tell them it is wrong. But you sometimes can show them that what they have experienced or already know about is not right.

      • domitare

        It could also just be an American thing. We like things sanitized, that is why “we” don’t like to see the coffins of soldiers coming back from Iraq and Afganistan. That is why during Vietnam they begans to sensor what the “public” could see. To me entheta is no more that what most would call annoying, like fingers on a chalkboard, or a nasal girl trying to sound sexy.

        • Michael Leonard Tilse

          And yet, it is not the “people” it is the government itself that tries to prevent this evidence of the truth being seen.

          Or was that your point? That those committing the deeds are the ones most interested in concealing them?

          • domitare

            The media started reacting to complaints from the beltway, they did not want their “kids” watching such carnage plus it makes it more difficult to recruit more soldiers. Peter Jennings talked about this way back but cannot recall when.

            • OrangySky

              MLT is right – this is a case of the truth interfering with the powers-that-be and their agenda. Americans don’t ‘hate’ feeling sad. Or seeing negativity – hello police chases, or murder and mayhem shows on Discovery ID. But those inconvenient feelings may prompt them to do something – which, it must be noted, feelings are supposed to do. In the case of the soldiers and their coffins, bad/sad feelings about them might prompt viewers to:
              1) cease supporting the war that killed them and/or 2) refrain from enlisting in a war that is clearly more complex than the army recruiting ads would have you believe.

              That’s the thing about the truth – it has consequences. When someone tries to keep information from you, it’s almost never “for your own good.” It’s to prevent the consequences of what might happen once you learn that information.

      • Barbara Angel

        Heart breaking waste of energy. You could talk until you’re blue in the face & I doubt if that could or would make the slightest difference. “There are none so blind as those that will not see”. Sad but true. But well done for Trying, you never know….. some seeds may have been planted?

        • Shirley Eugeste

          At least we know that if we turn blue in front of a Scientologist, they’ll be able to do CPR AND a Heimlich AND a kitchen table tracheotomy AND THEN…help alleviate unwanted sensations and emotions, irrational fears and psychosomatic illnesses!

          • Barbara Angel

            Hahahahaha Yep the Co$ gang are ALL so very healthy, absolutely practising what they preach? lol Shame about Mustravage tho’, he never seemed able to cure his asthma or his paranoid psychosis and poor Kirstie can’t keep away from the fried chicken, even her own brand of diet pills don’t seem to work? Could it be that Co$ is nothing but a SCAM???? lol

      • Panopea Abrupta

        Interesting ideas.

        Picasso’s Guernica is art, not the pornography of violence.

        All film or photography of war is not art, however.

        It is neither black nor white.

        The violence you have suffered in Scientology is that “us versus them” , theta/entheta thinking.

        The infinite gradations of grey are vastly more interesting, methinks.

      • Mooser

        “So that is why I keep coming back to the idea that it is what the scientologist has already experienced, the injustice, the nonsense, the abuse, the crush regging, that is the key to them beginning to see that something is wrong.”

        Yes, but I can’t help but wonder if the person, or people, who inflict the injustice, spout the nonsense, are the abusers, and do the regging (and get a commission) see all that as their “wins”, and evidence that Scientology works.
        Who are those people, the Scientology winners? I get a hazy glimpse of them here and there, in the depositions and the stories, but naturally, those people are doubly reluctant to talk, even if they leave.

      • Racnad

        Great points. I never accepted the idea that there should be things I should things I shouldn’t read, information I should not expose myself to regardless of whether it is true or not, which is a big reason why I was pretty much out by my early 20s. Regarding documentation of war, a commentator I follow who doesn’t have the stomach for violent movies ironically argues against the policy of American media to not show graphic war footage. If regular people had more not-unseeable images burned into their brain, they would not support sending their kids to war unless it was truly important.

    • domitare

      Lawrence Wright got it right. As soon as you do the comm course you become a scio. It was a trip to be able to control a conversation and to be able to “face” people and to remain calm. This this is insidious, you don’t know you have crossed the line until for some reason you look back only to see that you have been ensnared for a very long time. It is sites like this that help give us distance and a new look and a new realization and Atack that an awesome job of it.

    • Panopea Abrupta

      I would have thought that the most insidious and most devious is the redefinition of “ethics.”

      Hubbard wouldn’t have recognized ethics if it came up to him and strangled him a la Divine Misconception, der DwarfenFuhrer.

  • anti-niblet

    Admire the passion and bravery of Mark Bunker!

    • Sunny Sands

      Nice AV

    • Missionary Kid

      I love the ad.

    • Zaphod Beeblebrox

      Hear, hear! Love the handle/avatar, by the way!

      • anti-niblet

        Thanks!

        • Zaphod Beeblebrox

          You’re welcome.

    • Missionary Kid

      I just saw that I mistyped, “Nice ad.”
      I meant to say, “NICE AV.”

      • anti-niblet

        thank you

  • MereCatWatcher

    Regarding the milestone video–not only dark clothes and overcoat in the desert, the trudging guy should have had a {scientology} millstone around his neck.

    • Panopea Abrupta

      He did, he did.

      Maybe still does.

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        I am sure he still does or they would have needed to re-shoot the movie, LOL.

  • MereCatWatcher

    Jon Atack is right on about the thought stopping. I’ve noticed that anytime someone does not listen and responds with a platitude out in the world there is also thought stopping. Hubbard took the 1984 ideas and used them really well to create his anti-humanitarian organization.

  • MereCatWatcher

    Great that Mark Bunker is doing the videos. I have been concerned about him in clearwater and I hope that many people have his back.

  • Baby

    Thank you for such nice supportive comments earlier… I love you guys..

    • Eclipse-girl

      The feeling is mutual

      • Baby

        Oh.. I always get downies E .. as I said earlier.. OSA loves me..

        • Espiando

          At least your hater is from OSA. I only piss off Bunkeroos, who proceed to show their cowardice with stalker downvotes and without acknowledging their identity so they can answer me in person.

          Unless it’s Cat Daddy’s sockpuppet that he uses when he wants to say “Look, I upvoted you.” In which case, fuck that Dutch fucker. But congrats to them on that full podium in the men’s 5000 today. Watch later as a Chicagoan hands your guys their asses in the shorter distances.

          • Baby

            haha.. Espi.. You know I am Switzerland when it comes to you and Cat Daddy..

            Well of course it’s OSA everyone here loves me ( ha) and trust me I get more than one downvote for each post.. I It has really stopped me from posting, Huh?

            • xoxoxoxoxoxox

              I get loads of downvotes. I interpret downvotes as upvotes. I interpret upvotes as upvotes too. Works for me.

            • Baby

              hahahha.. That works for me to xoxooxox I love your way of thinking..

            • deathtoallpoliticians

              greetings, xox6! love your logic. cheers!

            • Barbara Angel

              Yep, Repeat: Down Votes are the *New* must haves. lol

          • Cat Daddy

            I have no sockpuppet bitch

            • Espiando

              If you aren’t downvoting me on sight, either as you or as your sockpuppet, then why did you behave like a butthurt stalking cunt the moment I turned my history private?

              ETA: Downvoting me five seconds after I posted this doesn’t help your case any.

            • Cat Daddy

              Sounds like you are the deluded butthurt sissy onhere princess

            • Espiando

              Really? I don’t recall ever responding to a dozen posts of yours with the same “point” about something you said, like you did with me.

            • Cat Daddy

              Sorry I was a grouch

            • Espiando

              And you did it within fifteen minutes after I turned my history private, thus ruining your plans to downvote every post I made easily.

              We didn’t even have a disagreement about the circumcision thing; we were on the same side (I wish that I hadn’t been). I just know about the history of Tsunami-level Wank when that subject is brought up, and the Bunker didn’t deserve to be drowned. I should have explained that properly at the time.

            • Cat Daddy

              Okay you win, and no I am not your downvoter per sock, If I downvote I do it openley

          • deathtoallpoliticians

            greetings, espiando! totally ditto, my friend. i actually relish every single darn downvote i get from fellow bunkerites and osa. it only makes me stronger and more determined to speak my mind. besides, it also lets me know that people are reading what i write and that i apparently move them enough with my words to take action against me by downvoting. cheers!

          • Sibs

            Honestly, I only downvote you whenever I feel like your attacks are getting too nasty without much substance to add to the discussion. But you shouldn’t take that personally. I still like and respect you (and you remind me of one of my brothers, which I think you’ve heard a lot from other Bunkeroos).

            For the record, I didn’t downvote the post I just replied to. That would be silly, and I save my downvotes for extreme cases. I’m just adding constructive feedback since you asked for it.

            • deathtoallpoliticians

              greetings, sibs! a very respectful and thought out answer. at least you have the cajones to be visible and answer espiando. cheers!

            • Espiando

              Sibs, thank you for your honesty. You will need to differentiate between inter-Bunkeroo nastiness and the Trolling For Great Justice that I pull out when OSA trolls come in here (which they haven’t been doing too much of lately). You can tell the difference between the two because I never tell Bunkeroos that they fuck various types of animals.

              What I’m pissed off about is me being on people’s Downvote On Sight list. They’re not differentiating between the person giving the message and the context of the message that’s being delivered. If they think that downvoting everything I write is going to drive me away from here, boy, are they sadly mistaken. It just makes me post more. It’s the way I’m wired. I just want those people to tell me why they’re doing that so that we can come to a little understanding.

              Stalking someone is such a Scilon thing to do.

              ETA: And forty-five seconds later comes a downvote. What in the text above deserves a downvote? Tell me. I want to know.

            • Ardent

              Nothing in your comment needed to be downvoted.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              I think it makes some folks feel like they have SuperPowahs!

              What the fuck ever…

            • Mooser

              “If they think that downvoting everything I write is going to drive me away from here, boy, are they sadly mistaken.”

              Perhaps they feel, but are unable to express except by downvoting, that you make every effort to be coarse and offensive. Plus, you use bad language!

              Espiando, ask yourself, how would you feel if some poor, innocent, chubby-cheeked cherubic child was ensnared in Scientology’s toils because his Mother forbid him (or her, Espiando: or her!) to read your comments due to, or because of the naughty words and nasty expressions contained therein? Ponder that, Espiando, and I’m sure your heart will lead your brain by the hand to foot the bill!

            • Toni m

              Since the (first?) fight between two of my favorites guys here, CD and E I do not recommend this site anymore. I was very proud to show this site that is, at least for me, number one in the fight against this cult. Mr Ortega works very hard and free to give us the most accurate information and is sad that a person came here looking for this information and see all this bad language and hate between our own friends. I’m not a puritan but this is not the place for this kind of behavior our fight is against scientology not between us. Believe me, the bad guys are very happy to see this, they can show this to the ones inside and tell them “this is where you want to go?”. I do not down vote anyone, only did it once and I felt bad about it. Who am I to down vote?. I like you both very much CD/E do not get mad with me please. Ignore the down votes, I think it’s the best for all.

            • Cat Daddy

              Don’t worry It stopped

        • Shirley Eugeste

          I picture puppies on a ouija board… Will the first poop be on “up” or on “down”?

        • Eclipse-girl

          Everyone in the conversation after you left got down voted, some even for than 1. I thought it was person who originally made an unfriendly post

          • Baby

            E .. They followed us over from Radar..that means they fear us!

            • Eclipse-girl

              They do. Look at how they try to intimidate us. Hasn’t work and won’t ever.

            • Baby

              NEVER ever!

        • Scream Nevermore

          OSA can kiss my large behind. They’re numpties. You’re fab!

          • Baby

            Hahahah.. After I Hearsayed Numpty I agree about OSA! Fab? Well I think you are Fab too my friend Scream. xo

    • SandiCorrena

      You’re loved! And I find you inspirational too!

      • Baby

        Sandi you are just a doll.. Thank you! I always enjoy your posts.. always

      • Miss Tia

        Baby’s very inspiring to me too! Totally agree with ya!

        • Baby

          Jeeze you guys..I am NOT worthy!

          • Miss Tia

            Sure ya are!! 🙂

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            Yeah….U are! 😉

            • Baby

              I miss you.. ; /

              Good Lord you guys..ha.. xo

            • TXCowgirl

              Hi Baby. I’ve been out with my female progeny tonight. What happened? Was someone picking on you?? Whatever it was, I must concur that you are most definitely an inspiration. :-))). (And if they were messing with you, they picked the wrong broad!)

            • Missionary Kid

              Yeah, they did it after she had gone to work. She missed them, but the other bunkaroos nailed his ass. Then he disappeared.

            • Baby

              Awww Texas.. I can be a bit feisty..but wasn’t.. If you go back to the oldest comment ( I was the first) you’ll see..

              Tony has thousands of lurkers, posters ..etc. I know I will not be every bodies cup of tea.. so it’s all good..xo Thanks Honey bunny

    • Missionary Kid

      I’m so thick skinned/slo-w on the uptake that I didn’t become convinced they were a troll until they resorted to delete tech. Fuck ’em, especially if they tried to fuck with our Baby.

      • Baby

        Really? I didn’t notice that Kid.. How did you spot it.. Thank you.. xo

        • Missionary Kid

          After you posted that you were off to work, they started out complaining that they didn’t want to hear your stories, that this site wasn’t for that.

          I replied that what we were about was the human condition. They then did a satire on your posts, but without the personality. I suggested that they go to twitter, if they wanted to talk about every little thing that they did. They came back with that they didn’t do twitter, and that I should get a life.

          I was willing to give them a pass, because I get a bit tired of the paranoia towards newbies, but one of our troll spotters jumped on them, and pointed out that it was odd that they attacked a long-standing, much loved poster (you). I checked, and all their posts were private, so you couldn’t see a history. I realized that they were actually trying to goad me by being passive-aggressive. I wasn’t going to engage them, but ignore their posts at that point.

          After they got called out for their posts, their thread disappeared, so you missed all the fun. They were nailed so fast, and gone, probably within 45 minutes. Fastest disappearance of a troll I’ve seen yet. They must have been pretty inexperienced.

    • Miss Tia

      I dunno what I missed (errands, internet issues still–though apparently fixed, so they say!) but I hope you’re okay and everything is well!! Love ya!!

      • Baby

        Fabulous Tia Maria.. Absolutely fabulous.. xo

        • Miss Tia

          EXCELLENT to hear! 😀 xo

    • Qbird

      I <3 Baby.

      • Baby

        and Baby <3 Birdie

        • Qbird

          Hey Baby ~ truth is, I find you to be a wonderful addition to teh bunker…

          I find you effervescent!

          Everyone brings something to the party.

          • Baby

            Ohhh Birdie.. You are so sweet.. Yes we all do, huh? xo

  • Free Minds, Free Hearts

    Mark, thank you so much for your courage.

  • Still_On_Your_Side

    Mark, if you run for office, generally, they have to leave you alone or risk losing their tax exempt status. I am sure they will run dirty tricks and try to claim others were responsible. The problem the Miscavige has with that, however, is he can no longer trust anyone. Poor Judy, you probably haven’t seen her since they now think she has been “turned” by her short visit with you. I wonder what hell they have put her through…

    Just remember, since 2000, Miscavige has lost thousands of members, and you have gained at least twice that many supporters.

    • OrangySky

      I too worry about Judy…depending on where she is on the Bridge, she may be in sec-check hell for a long time to come. You never know how much wise beard will rub off on you, even after one encounter.

      • Anonymous

        I doubt it. She handled the situation exactly how they would want her to.

    • Sunny Sands

      Didn’t Mark say the Christmas decorations were still on her door? She may have fled.

      • Eclipse-girl

        Or be trapped inside of one of their buildings

    • Missionary Kid

      The cult itself cannot advocate a particular person, but they can put up ads on topics, like “carpetbaggers shouldn’t run for office” which other sources will charge that Mark’s a carpetbagger because he’s only been in town for a short time. It’s sneaky, but it’s a way around the law. Churches do that all the time. Take a look at the LDS support for Prop. 8 in California.

      • Shirley Eugeste

        I’ve been thinking Clearwater’s next mayoral election is going to have a lot of “prop-8” elements.
        Outsiders with a vested interest in the outcome, and a bunch of money/influence. For the mayor of a town of a little 100,000.

      • Sunny Sands

        I didn’t know if anyone else would know what “carpetbagger” meant, it’s kind of a southern thing. Anyone new in town has to address it. Of course, the ultimate carpetbaggers are scientology.

        • jeff

          We learned about the term in 8th grade american history as regards to the reconstruction era (in a Pennsylvania school) Also in the song “For You” by Bruce Springsteen there is the line “Honey, get your carpetbaggers off my back”.

    • Anonymous

      I’ll say this for Mark, he’s very charismatic and definitely the type I can see in politics. He also has a very thick skin which will serve him well in that arena. Having said that, I think he would be smarter to run for city counsel rather than mayor right off. Showing up from out of town and running for mayor is honestly a bit presumptuous IMHO. Also, In any elected position, he’s going to have to deal with things other than Scientology and he needs to be prepared for that.

      • Eclipse-girl

        I totally agree that is the proper strategy when playing normal politics.
        I do not know if CW is normal.

        • Anonymous

          I’ve talked to WBM via email. He already intends what I suggest.

  • Cat Daddy
  • Sibs

    I’ve been reading back over previous articles (btw, Tony, thanks for putting the links into the footnotes of your posts. It’s really helpful). Not only is there so much information on the outside that Scientologists train themselves to ignore (because they think LRH is always right or that their eternity is at stake), I still can’t get over how much of their own “scripture” is kept away from rank-and-file Scientologists.

    If Scientology was a religion and they truly believe they are the only solution to saving the planet, then why hide so many of Hubbard’s policies? Unless, of course, Scientology is a scam, not a religion, and someone at the top is aware that if rank-and-file Scientologists knew about, say, Hubbard’s GO/OSA policies they might scatter.

    • Missionary Kid

      Sins, John wrack had a quote in one of his articles that went something like, “Cash trumps reason in$cientoiogy.” If you come across it, could you send me the link? Somehow it got dropped from my list, and I want to put it back on. Thanks.

  • EnthralledObserver

    TOTALLY would vote for the “Wise Beard Mayor” if I could! lol
    Good decision to put the Injunction matter aside for now. Plenty of bees nests stirred up already with Mark moving back to Clearwater. It sounds as though he can live with it for now… even if it’s a bit of a pain in the neck.
    It is very interesting the comparison between how the CO$ really view Mark Bunker and the nasty picture they try to paint for the courts and public of Mark. Pretty low tactic…. but hardly surprising considering who we’re talking about.

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      I think those bees have what they call “Colony Collapse Disorder.” I watched this great documentary on it called Vanishing of the Bees. Basically, the bees are flying away and they will not be returning to the hive.

      • WhereIsSHE

        I get the idea of your metaphor here, but… on behalf of science and truth….I have to offer the opinion that: Scientologists are the antithesis of bees.

        They don’t –and can’t–help us to survive, and we don’t need them.

        In stark contrast, we actually NEED the (real) BEES. In scientific truth, we cannot survive without them.

        Long live the (REAL) BEES.
        May all Scientologists wake up from their thought-stopping, Hubbard-worshipping slumber.

        • EnthralledObserver

          Very good point! The WORLD does not, nor ever will, need $cientology like it needs Bees.

        • Jimmy Threetimes

          You’re right. On closer inspection, Scientologists are not bees at all.

          • Captain Howdy

            They do look like WASPS

            • Observer

              Snort!

          • Espiando

            Although both of them have bloated, disgusting-looking females at the center of their society. Bees have their queen. Scientologists have Kirstie Alley.

          • Baby

            They Ain’t even the Bee’s knees!

            • Mooser

              Nor do they resemble, like Aurelia Cunningham, “the bee’s roller skates”

      • Shirley Eugeste

        another documentary about bees:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs-tl6GBOBo

  • Free Minds, Free Hearts

    Thought stopping is illustrated nicely in the video. You are to blame yourself if it isn’t working… “Every doubt which you have is just an aberration…” “Anything which is fighting you is within you…”

  • OrangySky

    Off-topic: Do Hubbard scholars believe these 900,000 year old footprints are from Piltdown Man? Or perhaps, some very long-legged clams? http://archaeology.org/news/1815-140207-england-footprints-happisburgh

    • Shirley Eugeste

      Cool article! Thanks! And not too OT: Dianetics started life as A History of Man, after all.

      • MaxSpaceman

        Dianetics: TMSMH published 1950.
        A History of Man 1952.

    • 3feetback-of-COS

      I’ll ask some of my body thetans if they know anything about it.

    • Panopea Abrupta

      It’s those damned geoducks again!

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoduck

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        Hehe……….I about cracked up when I first saw that screen name.
        The GOOEY Ducks are SUPER gross in a creepy phallic way.

        But they make a good chowder… 😉

        If you don’t think about it.

        • Panopea Abrupta

          Here’s to chowder !

        • Sandy

          I don’t wanna eat something that I don’t wanna have to think about. No thx … 😉

    • Mooser

      Now, old Pilty Man wasn’t such a bad guy. A little primitive maybe, and always lying about his age, but au fondue aren’t we all? But his brother (and he would risk his life for his brother Man) Putdown Man was one sarcastic son-of-a-butch. Actually, out of the whole family, the youngest Man brother, Getdown, was the best!. Getdown Man man was a real swinger! I heard they had a cousin in Australia named Godown man, and a cadet branch of the Man family is involved in bluegrass music. Yup, the Hoedown Man.

      • Mooser

        Slave over a hot keyboard all day to come up with japes, and nifties, in a selfless attempt to turn lachrymosity to jellicosity, and that is the harvest, a downvote. It’s too hard, I tell you.

      • Cat Daddy
    • lalalalalalalalalalala i’m not listening to your psych funded scientific advancements. Next thing you’ll be telling me that homosexuals have been around since ancient greece and only in recent history did it become a perverse activity.

  • media_lush
    • Eclipse-girl

      I am lazy. After Jimmy3T and I gave you two different links to the Tom Cruise / Stephen Spielberg Story, did you update it?

      • media_lush

        I looked at the link at looked at my post and I think I have it…. you know that there’s a second post below the original one that has loads more detail then the one above…. I’ll have another look when I’m a bit more bright-eyed

        • Eclipse-girl

          I now its late for you. Sleep well

  • Missionary Kid

    O.T. Did anyone notice that J. S. Mill had a bump on his forehead similar to LRH’s cys? Different location, though.

    • Shirley Eugeste

      Yep. Didn’t want to mention it in case any of the faithful lurking might latch on to it as a sign of LRH’s legitimacy.

      • Panopea Abrupta

        His legitimacy was ill, and he couldn’t go see a doctor about it.
        Poor little Ronnie.

    • Great White Clam

      LRH’s cyst was motile.

      • Missionary Kid

        Mill had an excuse. Dre. didn’t operate often during his era. LRH had no excuse, except for his paranoia.

      • Freethinker

        Oh, so *that’s* where his body thetans were hiding!

        • Great White Clam

          My recollection of the bump, which I saw on many occasions in the 70’s, was that it was about 3 centimeters in diameter and a centimeter in height. Scott Mayer says it was “golf-ball sized.” [link removed] But I would say that it was, in mass and shape, maybe a third of a golf ball.

          Kima told me that Hubbard’s bump was a sebaceous cyst, and that she lanced it and squeezed out a tablespoon or so of fairly unfragrant sebum. This would indicate that Jim Dincalci’s statement, as reported in Bare-Faced Messiah, that the bump was a “lymphoma,” was in error. But, IANAD, and I wasn’t there during the assistosection. The story that when his head was lanced Hubbard took off and rocketed around the room with the duty messengers frantically chasing after and trying to grab hold of him is just so much hot air.

          A tech estimate I received stated that in the Commodore’s tablespoonful there would have been millions or even billions of body thetans, including any number of clusters. On the fast side of average, it takes a minute to blow a BT on NOTS. Splitting the difference between a million and a billion BTs or clusters – let’s say 550 million – it would take something over 9 million well done auditing hours. Even if Hubbard could have his sebaceous, or lymphomatoid, BTs audited by the best (David Mayo was his auditor at the time) who could put 20 hours in the chair every day, it would take 450 thousand days. If Hubbard was audited on NOTS every day of the year as long as it took, since it does take as long as it takes, it would take at least 1,232 years.

          http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/writings/historical/new-years-1980-hemet.html

    • Artoo45

      I recysted the temptation to comment . . .

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        LOL………….just spit up my refreshments!

      • Missionary Kid

        That’s a pun worthy of mooser.

  • Freethinker

    In Chicago, clam spam on craigslist is usually low, but not tonight! Please flag if you can:
    http://chicago.craigslist.org/search/cls?zoomToPosting=&catAbb=cls&query=%223011+N.+Lincoln+Ave%22&excats=

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Done. The photos are always of such angry and depressed people, like their movies and PSAs which tend to the negative.

      • Espiando

        From my experience, that matches the Chicago Scilons, who are always angry and depressed, mostly depressed. There were times that I wanted to give Dominic some of my happy pills, he looked so bummed out.

        • Gabbyone

          OK. So maybe their faces are just reflecting the weather as the snow continues to pile up? I kinda get that.

          • Aslansown

            If you could see my face right now that’s exactly what I look like!! 😉

            • Gabbyone

              Me too!

            • Aslansown

              I have been seriously considering just packing everything into my car, quitting and just driving somewhere warm and sunny. I’m putting off shoveling, etc. till tomorrow – I’m kind of like Scarlett O’Hara trying to ignore reality.

            • Gabbyone

              Headed for Mexico in a week. . . Can’t take it anymore.

            • Aslansown

              I’m so jealous right now!! Take me — I’m BEGGING you! A friend is going to Aruba in a couple of weeks and I’m trying to see if she’ll put me in a large suitcase – I’ll pay for the extra baggage!

            • Gabbyone

              I think Aruba sounds way more exotic than Cancun.
              Let me know if your friend doesn’t make room in their suitcase and I’ll see what I can do. : )

            • Aslansown

              She hasn’t sounded open to it so far, so I’m not getting my hopes up.

              Just let me know when you’re leaving and I’ll meet you at O’Hare with my own big suitcase, which you can then stuff me into and off we go!

            • Gabbyone

              I so know where you are coming from because I can’t shovel one more flake of snow this year, but I don’t think we’ll get past security at O’Hare.

            • Aslansown

              You’re right, of course (I’m definitely too big for a carry-on)! Oh well, have fun and get warm!

      • Aslansown

        It seems like they usually use Microsoft clip art, but these photos were something else — esp. the one about teens. Hilarious!

    • Sunny Sands

      Done.

    • woodrose

      Thanks for the heads up. I flagged em

    • TXCowgirl

      All done.

    • Espiando

      Not on my turf, Tara.

      Flagged.

    • aegerprimo

      Flagged those pesky ads.

    • Sandy

      Done

      Too close to home for me … We have enough problems p here in the frozen north without these jokers.

    • Toni m

      Done.

    • aquaclara

      Done!

    • Eclipse-girl

      Keep hitting this list, 4 have gone down already.

    • Gabbyone

      Done

    • Qbird

      done.

    • Done.

    • Cat Daddy
  • Sunny Sands

    From the Milestone One video: “Scientology needs a crew! And with persistence, and opening your ears, you’ll be that crew!”

    Sounds like the power of suggestion at work, maybe even hypnosis. Actually, with opening your ears (to the internet), you’ll run as far away as you can.

    • Panopea Abrupta

      From the Milestone One video: “just an aberration”

      – Scientology and Hubbard in 3 words,

      as per the dictionary,

      aberration means the fact or an instance of deviating or being aberrant especially from a moral standard or normal state.
      Hubbard and Scientology are and have been deviant especially from any moral standard.

      • Mooser

        ♫Oh, it was just my aberration,

        Running away with me.

        Oh it was just my aberration,

        Running away….♫

        • Mooser

          Oeww! Down-voted through the heart,
          and you’re to blame!
          You give down-votes,
          A bad name!

          Ha! How’s that for a crushing retort!

      • valshifter

        I hate that cult for telling me what I have and what I dont have,” you have an aberration” fuck them just because is convenient to them to condition my mind to belive that I have something that the world does not understand, I’ll be the stupid one to agree with them that I have that.

  • media_lush

    I think the RTC might be missing a trick here….

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      CalMag Wafers a Niacin Martini?

      • aegerprimo

        Blech!

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          GET IN THAT SAUNA! NOW!

    • Mooser

      “Ingredients: Water, Wheat Flour…”

      Directions: Transubstantiate well, and serve with Latin or Vernacular to taste.

      “Best Before Date- See lid”

      Oh, I know what’s on the lid: Mathew 24:36. Another complicated disclaimer.

    • Unless the Catholics are selling this stiff at $5K a pop, they are the ones missing out, not Scientology.

  • Jo

    Mark, loved your vid. Mayor Mark. BTW neighbour Judy sounds like a nightmare, those Christmas decorations should have takening down ages ago.

  • Sarah James

    If scientology can get and did get an order keeping Mark Bunker away from their pod people, why can’t Marty do the same with David Miscaviges gang in a small Texas town?

    • Jimmy Threetimes

      Just a guess, but it may have been easy to get that injunction because Bob Minton was arrested on a bullshit assault charge. And when Mark Bunker tells it, one of the funniest assaults ever. ~6:25 in the video.

  • AnonJohnSiver@hushmail.com

    Mark Bunker running for mayor? I’d buy a beer and a chilli dog to see that. They’d chuck the kitchen sink at him wouldn’t they? Need to be careful though, considering that what they did to Gabe Casares is well documented public knowledge. If they got caught doing that shit these days they’d be crucified on that plagiarised cross of theirs. They’d toss the bigot card on the table straight away. For mine, that’s exactly what Mark should want them to do. It creates the opportunity for him to discuss the accusation in light of their own bigotry. I’d love to hear them debate the use of the term ‘wog’ to refer to non scientologists, the homo novis concept, their intolerance of dissenting viewpoints and disgusting fair gaming of critics, their opposition to Marty and his acolytes quietly practising their own religious beliefs. Yes, playing the bigot card would play right into ‘Mayor’ Mark’s hands.

    • Panopea Abrupta

      “they’d be crucified on that plagiarised cross of theirs.”

      Calls for a shoop, surely ?

      • Mooser

        “Calls for a shoop, surely ?”

        Of a man plagiarized on a cross of gold!

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      i WISH they would be crucified. These shit heads get away with WAY too much downtown….Every, Damn, Day!!!

      • Captain Howdy

        Listen, before you start criticizing scientology willy nilly, you need to go down to the org and..

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hpPuFnq85A

        • Missionary Kid

          O.K., old fart (like me), that’s too happy a song for anyone going into an org. You’d lose your mind, but not in the way of the song.

    • valshifter

      am surprised scientology hasn’t try to sit their own Mayor in place, if Mark can do it so do they, now they know about Marks intentions so now they gonna try to put their own mayor in place of course they have to pretend he is not a scientologsit and blah blah blah.

  • valshifter

    From milestone one video;
    1.”there has been a pretence of having data but it is a shaby pretence”
    sometimes it amazes me how he avowes what is really going on in scientology and people just dont see it.
    2. “so far all they been doing is pulling men and holding him down” who is “they”?
    isn’t that what scientology is doing? oh others are doing it no scientology oh no not scientology.

  • Candygram

    Mark Bunker and Jon Atack are gods, and I love them. In other news, it’s snowing in Seattle and maple syrup snow feels really good on my sore throat.!

    • Mooser

      Got maybe a half-inch here in Ketchup County.

  • Spoonbenderz

    Favorite part of the Mark Bunker video to Clearwater City Council is watching everyone get up and leave. Guess the SP was too much LOL. Looked intentional too, like they knew they were on camera and were trying to make a point… Staged and chickenshit.

  • Scientology’s conspiracy theory about psychs knows no bounds. All of them are convinced that the acceptance of same sex attraction and transgender as an inborn traits, and the cascade of decisions worldwide accepting the right of same sex couples to marry are part of the psychs’ plan to pervert the entire world and enslave it. In Scientology sex is intended for procreation only, since the concept of love does not exist. The concept of family is foreign to Scientology teachings. Any bond between parents and children is minimized and eventually broken.

    Thought-stopping is one of the most difficult things to overcome when leaving a cult. One of the first things I would recommend to recovering cult members is to embrace their curiosity instead of assuming they have the answer to everything. It’s difficult sometimes to realize that you don’t have all the answers. I had to come to grips with the fact that I have no idea what’s going to happen to me after I die and I have no idea what’s happened to other people that have died. It’s scary and tantalizing to learn that there are so many unexplained things out there after being taught since childhood that L. Ron Hubbard had all the answers.

    To all of the exes out there that are recovering, it’s best to let ALL of the teachings of Scientology go. Every. Last. One. It opens you up to so many new possibilities! There’s so much to learn. So many scientific advancements that disprove everything Hubbard taught us!

    I’ll be damned if anyone convinces me that there’s something “good” in Scientology,

    • Mooser

      “To all of the exes out there that are recovering, it’s best to let ALL of the teachings of Scientology go. Every. Last. One.”

      That seems to be very, very hard for some people to do. I’m just going by what I read, from indies and exes. What seems to be hardest to dispel is the idea that Hubbard was a legitimate researcher or scientist of some type, or other. Just saw a great example of that in the interview at Scientology Bollocks .
      If even the barest outline of the facts presented in “Barefaced Messiah” the biography of Hubbard are true, I would say that is an untenable position

      • Cognitive dissonance is painful

      • Espiando

        For a lot of them, though, anything about Hubbard triggers cognitive dissonance, as Derek cites quite well. Mention anything negative about Hubbard at the South African blog, for instance, and the censorship hammer comes down. That’s why a lot of the hardcore Indies are migrating there, people like Formost and Ronnie Bell. Marty’s place became too entheta for them when Marty opened enough locks on the prison of his mind, and Mike allows enough freedom of discussion to be slightly uncomfortable (although Mike does tend to let the hardcore have the last word). ESMB? Forget it.

        If this is part of scnafrica’s plan on getting people out by providing a safe landing spot, though, I understand, and the series they’re doing now exposing in detail what hell being on staff there is like is a must-read for any Anti or Indie. But the last thing the world needs is another Milestone Two in South Africa, which is what they’re building toward, only with actual honest-to-FSM whales as backing.

  • Bella Legosi

    “(Regarding the many divisions, subdivisions, and opposing ‘psych’ theory’s and professions)There is no agreement, so there can be no conspiracy, unless the tens of thousands involved in these professions all carefully maintain their animosity in public, while sitting down to entrap humanity with rose perfume behind the scenes, as Hubbard insisted in the Sea Org Hat.” Another great piece of wisdom from Jon! I love it!

  • Patrik Axelsson

    I’m curious if any ex-sci feels like sharing – How did you overcome your aversion to psychologists / psychiatrists after you left? Were you prejudiced towards them before you joined? Do you still have issues with these fields?

    • DodoTheLaser

      I was not prejudiced towards psychiatrists/psychologists before I joined.
      This might be different for people who were born into scientology. Unlike them, I was 19 when joined.

      Even when I was in, I didn’t think “the psychs” are evil. Myself and many scientologists I knew considered most “psychs” well-intentioned, but misguided and ignorant about mind (oh, the irony!). With that said, there is no aversion to overcome.

      I don’t really have issues with these fields, aside of the obvious problems like over prescription, etc.
      I think the majority of professionals in the above-mentioned fields, are good people who try to do their best with what they got.

      Hope I answered your questions, Patrik.

      • Espiando

        Electroshock, or electro-convulsive therapy (ECT), is practiced, but it’s usually a treatment of last resort for certain forms of schizophrenia that aren’t responsive to medication. The techniques, though, are much more refined since Rontard wrote about it, and its effectiveness has been clinically demonstrated. Given the protocols, both clinical and technical, that it’s given under these days, there’s no reason to be against it, D.

      • MaxSpaceman

        Being in the field, I can tell you that ECT is practiced today; it remains controversial in some quarters; it has a large body of evidence of its effectiveness in some cases and in others, not; also, it is used in hard-to-treat cases, as Espi states below, but it is *not* limited to ‘certain forms for shizophrenia, as I have known people suffering from either Major Depressive Disorder or Manic Depressive Disorder (Bipolar Type 1 and Type 2) who have had ECT treatments.

        The amount of voltage used is much different; it’s a very light current compared with the past. I interviewed one man who went on to write a book about his mental health journey, which is a very smart read — “Electroboy.”

        “Electroboy is an emotionally frenzied memoir that reveals with
        kaleidoscopic intensity the terrifying world of manic depression. For
        years Andy Behrman hid his raging mania behind a larger-than-life
        personality. He sought a high wherever he could find one and changed
        jobs the way some people change outfits: filmmaker, PR agent, art
        dealer, stripper-whatever made him feel like a cartoon character,
        invincible and bright. Misdiagnosed by psychiatrists and …”

    • Michael Leonard Tilse

      Essentially, scientology had taken everything from me. I was unable to work. I had no more resources and was almost homeless.

      Seeing a Psychiatrist was required to get some public assistance. If I wanted help, I had to be evaluated. So I went. I had nothing left to lose. As long as I had resources, I resisted seeking help. That is part of my lingering PTSD from scientology.

      I was not prejudiced before I was in scn. I was very prejudiced against them by the teachings of scientology. It is sometimes hard to overcome my lingering fear, as instilled by scientology. It impairs me in some ways still. But I have to say, my experience with Psychiatry and Psychology after leaving scientology has been positive. Both medication and therapy has helped me, much more than scientology ever did.

      I am cautious. But I go.

      • DodoTheLaser

        So happy you are doing better, Michael!
        And thank you for sharing. It truly is a public service.

    • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

      I had been a reader of the NY Times regularly, and the NY Review of Books, I’d read a few popular psyche texts, even “Beyond Freedom” by Skinner, the controversial behaviorist.

      I was open, even though Hubbard was patently prejudiced, and simplistic populist opposed to psychiatry, focusing on their supposed inability to change for the better.

      Major difference they apply scientific logic to their procedures, and have a self policing ethics code.

      I realized somewhat then, and cut Hubbard massive amounts of slack, thinking, truly foolish thinking, hopeful thinking, that Hubbard had “applied scientific methodology” and made breakthroughs connecting past lives / future lives, with the 20th century’s science fiction fantasitic thinking.

      In the sense that we live in a vast cosmos, that has, for “real”, some factual ongoing science fiction like galactic massive history, into which we fit.

      Earthbound science thinking usually shies away from thinking projecting into this whole UFO culture thinking, it’s so obviously unproven to anyone who’s read even one UFO book.

      One has to have had contact with smarter thinking people and writings to avoid Hubbard’s massive pitfalls.

      By comparison, even as a “wog”, I mistook Von Daneken’s “Chariots of the Gods” as a real possibiity, and movies like “Close Encounters of the Third Kind”, “ET”, “Back to the Future”, within the context of Hubbard’s prejudices against psychiatry and psychology, to me were more understandable, if you look at the fact that all human history we still ponder what us, in this planet, out of touch with the rest of the cosmos. (Hawking’s comments about the distance and time between thinking potential planets, is what l logically conclude is reasonable thought today, instead of Hubbard’s crazy obviously fantastic science fiction “reality” of it all.)

      We do live in such a vast universe, we literally do NOT know, and physically at this time. cannot even tell of other advanced life.

      Hubbard boldly went with his science fiction fantasy mind, into realms of unfounded, unproven speculation about it all, which I presumed his crank past-lives pseudo “therapy” would convince me that his version of the cosmos was as colorful, with Xenu and Chug, and all the rest of the characters and civilizations that Hubbard boldly claimed existed for “real.”

      Of course, Hubbard’s pegging us all as being just transmigrating souls (thetans) who have our massively long “goals problems masses” which are long long many cycles of lifetimes’ identities and counter identities, playing out some unrealized past-life series of goals we as individual souls were constantly failing, and flip-flopping, Hubbard boldly claims in his past-lives crank drama “therapy”; within this context, the Hubbard prejudices against

  • Andrew Robertson

    AND NOW THE SHIPPING NEWS……………………….

    The sleek and entirely seaworthy ‘Freewinds’, its mighty diesel engines throbbing with OT power, has just left Oranjestad harbour in Aruba and is heading for the exotic pleasures of Cartagena in Colombia.

    This is the first time the vessel has ventured so far in many a long month so one can only assume that the Colombian Police Force and Army have run out of ‘The Way to Happiness’ booklets and have urgently requested emergency supplies. There can be no other reason.

    Andrew

    • Great White Clam

      Asked to leave? AKA “kicked out”?

    • DodoTheLaser

      What would Colombian Ideal Org look like?

      • Andrew Robertson

        The DIANETICA Y SCIENTOLOGY IDEAL ORG BOGOTÁ is either still in the planning and construction stage or it’s too shy to be photographed.

        But here’s an inspiring picture of Colombian people reaching out for Scientology!

        Andrew

        • DodoTheLaser

          50% is a false stat. Pretty sure it was 87%.

    • Cat Daddy
      • DodoTheLaser

        First Clearwater cops, now Colombian Armed Forces. I see a pattern. Expensive one.

  • Guest

    I don’t know if this was already mentioned: Scientology Super Bowl ad gets an “A” from the TIME magazine.
    It’s one of the most liked between the 57 S.B ads according to a Time’s pool.

  • Hingle McCringleberry

    Before I run off to practice my freely accepted religion, I’d like to offer a rock and roll prayer for all of those sea org folks in bondage this morning.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HraQ00qbZ94

  • noplefforatx@yahoo.com

    It is my intention, God willing and the creek don’t rise, to attend the event in Clearwater in May.
    I wonder if any staff members of the LMT have carried a sign in Clearwater since it’s dissolution?
    Maybe somebody can inform me about that. I was not deemed important enough to be listed by name in the
    injunction, -I was merely the office manager and Stacy’s drudge, but nonetheless I was an employee at the time that the injunction was issued and therefore covered by it. Now if any Scientologist should read this let me assure them that over the years I have maintained my sweet and humble disposition so there is nothing for them to
    worry about. Also, by May I will be 65 years of age which makes me an official senior citizen; now the I am old and
    feeble I pray that Scientology will be easy on me!

    In the years after the demise of the LMT I thought that Minton had made a strategic mistake in attacking them in their strongest place. But after hearing about how galled Captain Miscavige was at having a nest of SP’s in Clearwater perhaps Bob was right after all. – Bob Peterson

    • Sunny Sands

      Just an FYI about scientology not going easy on anyone. The coordinator of the May event uses a mobility scooter. She was arrested about 2 years ago because cult guard Antonio said she tried to hit him with it. Of course it was a lie. She had to hire and lawyer and go to court, and was found not guilty.

      • noplefforatx@yahoo.com

        Ah, well, I will have to take what comes. But if they weren’t able to hurt me
        years ago I don’t know what they can do now. Their DA pack on me was so
        pathetic that I sent copies of it to all my family and friends, much to their
        amusement of course. -Bob Peterson.

  • toomuchhead

    The alleged thought stopping described there is here to. You all repeat (chant) your anti-scientology mantras loudly enough inside your heads to drown out any non negative conversation.

    • AintMizBahavin

      almost as much as your misspelling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it isnt hard to tell your still a muppet of militant midgets hahahahahahaha

  • InterestedObserver12

    As a long-time admirer of Jon, it pains me to have to correct him, but his course supervisor was quite correct in considering Thomas Aquinas a prominent founder of psychological thought. For more, check out Psychohistory: St. Thomas Aquinas, http://www.psyking.net/id46.htm

    • Cece

      Jon said: “When I pointed out to a course supervisor that the phrase ‘Some 14th century psychiatrists’ was a misprint for 19th century, he argued that it was a reference to Thomas Aquinas’
      faculty psychology”

      I was thinking because LRH said it plural maybe that was Jon’s point. I don’t know about these things so
      perhaps I should keep quiet. Not a chance!

      What about this Jon said? “Hubbard claims that Socrates developed
      the syllogism, which is actually false data.”

      I read the FD policy several times (we had to) and never cared one way or another about this stuff. As some one else mentioned – Derek – We just got lazy and figured to get our answers from Ron. Well that happened maybe except for what one was not interested in. Then it was just ‘matter of importance’ (Student Hat Tech) and not bothered with.

      I had no reason to question – it was all working out fine in my mind and my happiness followed some years until the big sadness which was directly traced back to my stupidity in believing with out question. There was a point I went against what I knew to be correct and doubted myself. That’s when the rest became a crutch to a degree… As Derek states.

  • richelieu jr

    It’s relaly wide-open data- Witha lid on it.

    Scientology- Being able to believe to contradictory things, without truly understanding either.

    Scientology- Seemingly meaningful platitudes in total contradiction to each other.

  • richelieu jr

    I really must say (and with all due respect to Jeff Hawkins, whom I deeply admire) that Scientology has come a tremendous ways as far as film-making is concerned, especially since the epoch of Hubbard playing director in the desert with his team of Misguided, MIscaviged lackeys.

    These spots are well-thought through, visually interesting shorts with clear themes that give the impression of clarity and mystery, whilst underli)ing and (if at times too clearly) illustrating Hubbard’s nonsense… That’s a tall order coming from such a muddled ‘source’ and it implies to me that those making the clips knew where the weak spots in Hubbard’s discourse were and papered over them to give a feeling of unity and cohesion that wasn’t there so much to begin with.

    I don’t know how many fell for it, but it seems aimed at those already in, and in that case, I imagine this stuff went over like gangbusters…

    It is hard to make a product with the client looking over your shoulder and second-guessing everything (I know from where I speak) and if that client was MIscavige? Yipes!

    • Buttons72

      Sadly, I agree with you, richelieu, these spots *are* well done. I agree that they seem aimed at those already-in, to make them feel cutting-edge spiritual, but I think they are also targeting the young, rebellious age 14+ with the technology/spiritual angle. I think they are going to get some curious dunces to look into this – provided that those people don’t delve deeply into the internet before giving Co$ ‘tech’ a shot.

      • richelieu jr

        Yeah, Buttons, I think you’re right..

        then again, pst people are not he net, and if you google the ‘church’ you have a good chance of getting some real info, which is poison to their platitudes.. I just remember watching the Hubbard stuff and (I’ma director myself) thinking, “This is so hopelessly amateurish— How could anyone be fooled?”
        And yet they were. The good news is that the Superbowl spots, slick as it was, and as widely seen raised more eyebrows than income, and apparently enrollment is down from last year at the same time.. So negative to no effect as of yet…
        The Truth will out!

  • mockingbird

    This is one of my very favorite Scientology Mythbusting pieces. I have written extensively on the tech and the harm it causes http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?37203-MOCKINGBIRD-RECOMMEND-S-A-SEQUENCE-OF-STUDY I hope this is of use to some of you .