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John Joseph, 1955-2014: A Scientologist, and a friend to the Underground Bunker

John_Joseph

 
We knew him only as “Plain Old Thetan.”

He began communicating with us during our Village Voice days, and quickly became one of our most productive and most trusted sources about what was happening inside the Church of Scientology.

On Thursday, Plain Old Thetan — whose real name was John Joseph — died after suffering complications from appendicitis. He was 59.

We spoke last night to his sister, Mary Palazzo, and one of his best friends in Tucson, and they helped us learn more about a man we had found so helpful and fun to communicate with.

John Joseph was born on June 1, 1955 in St. Louis, Missouri, the oldest of six children to a surgeon and his wife who in 1960 took their growing family to Tucson, Arizona.

“We lived out in the country. My mom used to shoo wild burros out of our front yard,” Mary remembers. And with only dirt roads, when it rained it became impassable. “Dad would sometimes have to stay the night at the hospital.”

Like his siblings, John was raised Catholic, and went to parochial elementary and high schools. He then was awarded a scholarship in computer science that took him to Northern Arizona University in Flagstaff.

After graduating, he landed a job with Honeywell and moved to Southern California. It was while living there that he first got involved with Scientology.

“He would bring books home at the holidays and share them with us,” Mary says. “We knew he was a Scientologist, and everyone was pretty much OK with it. Although our parents were a little awkward with it.”

At some point, he moved from Honeywell to Executive Software International, Inc., the company owned by Scientologist Craig Jensen that became Diskeeper and today is known as Condusiv Technologies. An online database suggests that John steadily made progress on Scientology’s “Bridge,” and had completed most, if not all, of the “Operating Thetan” levels by the early 2000s.

By 2004 or 2005, Mary says, John was back in Tucson and was no longer working for Jensen. Then, in 2006, her brother was drinking an “energy” drink at a hardware store when he had a stroke.

He recovered rapidly, leaving him with only a slight limp, but Mary says it was a sign that John’s health was poor and he didn’t take very good care of himself. He did, however, purchase a house around that time, and part of it was dedicated to his passion for Scientology.

It was also around this time that TJ first met John, at Scientology’s Tucson mission. (TJ asked us not to include his last name in this story.) We’ve heard that at most Scientology missions or orgs, the “Sunday Service” is put on mostly for public relations purposes, but in Tucson John put a lot of effort into them, with plenty of interesting detail. And that only got him in trouble, eventually.

“Some of the members decided that what he was doing was out-tech. And with no warning they came in one Sunday and decided that the service was cancelled. They wrote up a report about what he was about to do. He was given a copy of the report and was told to meet with someone in California. It was very vague. I did get to read it,” TJ says.

Like other longtime Scientologists who had joined during a different era, John was still passionate about the subject while he had increasing criticisms about how leader David Miscavige was changing things.

By 2010, John was ready to begin speaking out. In February of that year, he made his first post at Steve Hall’s website and called himself “Plain Old Thetan.”

“Plain Old Thetan, the author of this condition assignment, is a Scientologist nearing the end of his body’s lifespan,” he wrote to introduce the piece, in which he assigned Miscavige to the condition of “treason.”

It was a very popular post with Hall’s readers.

John had become an “Independent Scientologist,” and at some point was declared a “suppressive person” by the church. In other words, he still found value in the ideas of L. Ron Hubbard, but he’d made a break with the official organization run by Miscavige. After making his debut at Steve Hall’s site, Plain Old Thetan became a regular contributor at the Independent Scientology site, Possibly Helpful Advice.

And he still had enough contacts inside the church that he was a valuable source for us, alerting us to fascinating stories and providing loads of information from 2012 to early this year.

He was always helpful, pleasant, and complimentary, and we knew that anything he told us we could take to the bank.

“He was an asshole, but I liked him,” TJ tells us with a laugh. “He was very straightforward, and he’d tell you the way he saw it.” If he could be acerbic, TJ says, John could surprise him with his kindness. “I left my keys at work one time, and I wasn’t sure where they were. He dropped everything, picked me up, and drove me around to find my keys, like he had nothing else to do,” he says. “He took my dog in when I had to get rid of it or be evicted.”

At one point, TJ says, he was pulled aside at the Tucson mission and told that John had been declared an SP. “I had to report to the church that I was going to disconnect from him. I didn’t even answer them. And I haven’t communicated with them since then,” he says.

We told TJ that it was rotten luck that John had trouble with his appendix.

“His health was crap when I met him. He’d had diabetes and a stroke. His blood sugar was always high. When the appendicitis hit, the tissue was very thin. They tried to remove it, and it ruptured.”

Mary describes multiple hospital stays as John’s conditioned worsened. It was TJ, she says, who called her after John’s initial surgery to tell her that something wasn’t right and that she needed to come over. Multiple infections after his surgeries overwhelmed John’s system as his organs shut down. He died on Thursday at a little after 3 pm, Mary says.

We asked her if there’s going to be a memorial service of some kind.

“I don’t think he’d want a Catholic ceremony,” she says. “John had told me, before this happened, that he wanted his ashes shot up into space. I don’t know how that’s going to be done, but we’re going to do it. His ashes are going into space somehow.”

We hope she finds a way.

 
——————–

Jeff Harris answers Scientology in the Georgia class-action lawsuit

As you’ll recall, Jeff Harris, the Atlanta attorney who handled the Patrick Desmond wrongful death lawsuit for the Desmond family, followed up that lawsuit (which settled) with a class-action involving several other former patients of Scientology’s drug rehab facility in the area, Narconon Georgia.

That rehab center closed down in a deal with the state amid allegations of insurance and credit card fraud, and it looked like a sitting duck for Harris’s lawsuit. But the class-action lawsuit was dismissed in February by federal district judge Steve C. Jones.

Harris appealed, Scientology answered the appeal, and now Harris has filed a response to Scientology’s answer. Give it a look and let us know if you think he’s got a shot of resurrecting this suit in the federal courts.

In other legal news, the Tampa Bay Times reported Thursday that a federal appeals court has called for a new damages trial in the case of the Narconon facility that is trying to expand in Hernando County, Florida. A jury had decided that the county had discriminated against the facility when it refused to allow it to expand, but then only awarded the Narconon $74,000 in damages instead of the $6.2 million it asked for. Now that amount will be the subject of a retrial.

The Narconon facility is on land owned by Toucan Partners, who was also a party in the dispute. But for some reason, the Tampa Bay Times never mentions that Toucan is really Kurt Feshbach, a prominent and longtime Scientologist who is fascinating for several reasons, which we’ve written about in the past.

And one additional legal note, regarding Monique Rathbun’s harassment lawsuit against Scientology in Texas: Monique requested additional time to file her response to Scientology’s anti-SLAPP appeal. Her request was granted by the Texas Third Court of Appeals, and she’ll now be filing her response by July 31.

 
——————–

Marc Headley describes rancid tacos!

Another fun podcast brought to you by Jeffrey Augustine…

 

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on July 5, 2014 at 07:30

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS (We read Scientology’s founding text) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25

UP THE BRIDGE (Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47

GETTING OUR ETHICS IN (Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14

SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING (Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43

PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer

 

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  • Eivol Ekdal

    Reserved for Red X

    • Pierrot

      Thanks Eivol,
      I see that Philosofa has posted a bit later.
      I do appreciate you marking & reserving the spot. :-))

    • Eivol Ekdal

      Tunes to cleanse by
      Do it!
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdKnWZEIIE4

    • philosofa

      Thanks so much for reserving a place for this, Eivol. Got sidetracked by stopping the dogs barking at the postman so missed the 1st spot. The best laid plans, eh….

  • John P.

    For some reason, the Tampa Bay Times never mentions that Toucan is really Kurt Feshbach, a prominent and longtime Scientologist who is fascinating for several reasons.

    If nothing else, Kurt is famous for his utterly appalling taste in art, commissioning this very expensive painting of him with his much younger second wife, which looks very much like one of those “Jesus on black velvet” paintings you get in the mercado in Tijuana. Get out the eyeball bleach on this one: http://tonyortega.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/KurtKannonFeshbach.jpg

    • Sejanus

      By Xenu’s Taint
      that is hard on the eyes.

    • Eivol Ekdal

      Well I was gonna have lunch, suddenly no longer hungry.

      • Paraphrasing David Cronenberg, “Long live the New Fesh!”
        (Refesh)

    • D.Y.G.

      I never get tired of the Feshbach painting. They must be the wealthiest rednecks ever.

      • sugarplumfairy

        You can take the boy outta the trailer, but it’s harder to take the trailer outta the boy..

        • 1subgenius

          You readin’ ma mind.
          I was actually going to research to see about his early background.

          • FrederickGuy

            He and his brother were in the grade ahead of me at Portola Valley School in California – not exacly trailer territory.

            • Missionary Kid

              He’s probably proud of his later life ability to spawn. It is his “I am a stud” painting.

              Wealth or privilege or status are no guarantees of taste. I just find the painting weird.

            • Troy MacGyver SP

              More like w/ viagra,”I can still stud.” Thanks pfizer,the world’s largest maker of pills!

            • 1subgenius

              Must have married into it.
              But then money doesn’t equal class either.

            • Observer

              They got it by short-selling stocks in the 80s–one of those things that isn’t illegal but isn’t exactly ethical, either (unless you’re using the Scientology definition).

              http://tonyortega.org/2012/12/14/florida-officials-fight-narconons-attempt-to-hide-its-scientology-connections-in-court-battle/

              … High school dropout Kurt and his younger twin brothers, Joe and Matt, became notorious in the 1980s for their success at the predatory practice of “short`selling,” and at one point controlled half a billion dollars of investor money as they looked for stocks to destroy. The Feshbach brothers were featured in both Time magazine’s infamous 1991 cover story on Scientology, “The Thriving Cult of Greed and Power,” and a lengthy profile in a 1991 issue of Spy.

              An older story, fairly soft-pedal, but also mentions how they profited during the first Gulf War: http://www.scientology-lies.com/press/los-angeles-times/1990-10-14/short-road-to-success-investing.html

            • 1subgenius

              Nouveau riche=double-wide trailer trash.

            • Before the 1980s, I don’t suppose they had any Guardians Office connection? Because infiltration, spying and burglary would be an advantage for acquiring insider dirty laundry on short-seller targets.

            • Troy MacGyver SP

              I was there,too. Not during that time,however.

        • D.Y.G.

          Haha! Every time I look at it I think, “Hamptons on the top. Trailer park on the bottom.”

      • Keeping Scientology Waning

        I have entitled this, “How to Embarrass Your Foetus”

        • richelieu jr

          Keeping up with the Jones’.. “I hear Marsha’s 4-monther reads at a 7 month level!”

      • Eivol Ekdal

        Beer taste, Champagne budget.

        • richelieu jr

          I though my dad was the only one who trotted out that old chestnut!

          • Eivol Ekdal

            Son, Where have you been? Call me, give me 5 minutes ’cause right now I gotta piss like a racehorse.

            • richelieu jr

              Daddy!

      • “Yeehah! Lookit me, I made a baby in her!”

    • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

      I find that few people want paintings of themselves put up in their homes. Few people commission paintings of themselves. They want paintings of their mothers, daughters, etc.

      • richelieu jr

        You didn’t finish that sentence.

        ‘…nekkid!’

    • TheMirrorThetan

      I’m gonna need a spork as well as the eye bleach. That damn painting gives me the willys imagining the baby alien from alien bursting out of there…

    • Missionary Kid

      Between the weird portrait and the comments, you’ve provided me with some of the best laughs this morning. Thanks.

    • Scream Nevermore

      Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! I was eating my lunch!!!!!!! Arggggggggggggh!

    • Mark

      “Oil painting” my arse! It’s a blown-up ‘canvas-print’ photo (an old technique that originally used non-fading cuttlefish-ink – hence ‘sepia’ photos – dye-transfer printed onto canvas for extra durability). It’s got a few daubs of paint round the edge to make it look more authentic, the rest being varnished over to add to the illusion it was painted – so the Festerbachs can point out the “brush strokes” to their nouveau riche pals. This has more to do with inkjet-printers than paintings.

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Bury is going to be pissed at you when she sees Fleshbach’s baby mama. You know how she gets about this picture.

    • Missionary Kid

      Maybe it’s because my mom’s attitude towards pregnancy as a midwife rubbed off on me, but I don’t find a picture of a pregnant woman revolting as some people here do.

      On the other hand, I find it flat out weird and an exercise in male egotism. That’s an assumption on my part, because most of the women I know aren’t happy to have pictures of their big bellies immortalized. She may feel differently and be proud of it, but I still find it weird.

      • Scream Nevermore

        I’m the oldest of 7 kids – pregnant bellies look very normal to me! It’s HIM who makes me want to puke when this pic is posted! He’s creepy to the Nth degree.

        • Missionary Kid

          $cientology makes everything creepy, and makes a creep even creepier, which fits this case.

      • TheMirrorThetan

        Its the creepy empty soulless expressions that freak me out, not the big belly.

        • Missionary Kid

          I usually don’t attribute emotions to pictures of a face, but I can understand how you’d see that. The creepiness factor is always high in $cientology.

          • Peter

            Once you assume the viewpoint that *everything* about scientology is bad, it will be. I personally have felt that all pregnant women are beautiful. The fact that they might be a scientologist doesn’t alter that view.

      • richelieu jr

        I find pregnant women lovely, and sexy to boot- That’s not what is in question here, MK.

        I get the subtext as ‘This had better be a boy, a MALE heir!” for BOTH of them (hers is followed by ‘GULP’!)

        What he is really saying: I ay be older, but LOOK at her! And I knocked her up TOO! AND I’M RICH!”

        To be fair, much of western art history contains exactly this message, but who elected that prick King?

        • Missionary Kid

          As I wrote elsewhere, it’s his “I am a stud” painting. It’s a vanity painting.

      • Observer

        It’s not pregnant bellies that are revolting–it’s THAT pregnant belly,
        in THAT pose, with THAT smug look on its owner’s face, in THAT cheesy
        painting, coupled with the fact that the subjects of the cheesy painting foisted a NarCONon on an innocent community and are now trying to expand the facility so the useless, life-endangering scam can be perpetrated on even more desperate familiies.

        Also, as MLT posted in the 1/22/13 comments, which IMO brilliantly captures the feeling of that monstrosity: That portrait… Past the Tiajuana black velvet aesthetic and the “god light” giving them a 12 carat aura I sense the proud ownership Kannon feels. She won the game. She got her man. And beneath that the wry sardonic knowingness that when her brood finally hatches she will serenely look on as they, scuttling on needle claws, devour him.

        btw, on his website the artist claims to be “the most accomplished portrait artist of the 20th century.” If you watch the slideshow of this work (it loads automatically at the link) you’ll see some familiar faces. *eyeroll* He’s talented, but I wouldn’t go that far.

        http://www.dickzimmerman.com/

        • Missionary Kid

          Agreed. It’s a portrait of breeding slime, AFAIC

        • NOLAGirl

          “the most accomplished portrait artist of the 20th century.”

          Not really Dick.

          • Missionary Kid

            That’s why he’s a dick.

        • Missionary Kid

          I believe Dick is a $cientologist. Look at his address and his clients. His studio is in Clamwater, and in his portraits there’s Priscilla Presley, the Travoltas, among others.

        • Captain Howdy

          “the most accomplished portrait artist of the 20th century.”

          And Jane Seymour is the greatest actress and Yanni is the greatest musician and the Hallmark Channel rules.

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            The fierce mustache has got to give him a few points, right?

        • D.Y.G.

          That’s one strange looking elf in the tuxedo.

    • Ruby

      (Note to Bury for when you see this…just remember, someone had to do it.)

    • Zana

      It’s like those hot-shot agents in Hollywood who drive around their Porches like they are showing off their dicks. He’s an old guy with his hand on his very expensive trophy… showing off to the world what a stud he still is. Like an exhibitionist. Very strange mental processes going on there. Almost like giving the finger to the genteel folk whom he rules over.

    • KNMF

      Trademark glazed expressions; check.

      Haughtiness where love should be; check.

      I pity the spawn. It just may die while riding a solid gold bicycle off the roof of a building.

  • RIP Plain Old Thetan

  • philosofa

    *****REDX*****REDX*****REDX*****REDX*****REDX*****REDX*****

    Yesterday was a wonderful Independence Day for the USA, the world
    and for Jeremy, the newest courageous escapee from scientology.

    We can all play a part in helping to bring the cult abuses to an end.
    Just follow the link below and flag the scam ads to your hearts content.

    https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/taking-down-co-on-craigslist-co-ads-on-craigslist.113779/page-99#post-2469325

    http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/1134/9634/original.jpg

  • 1subgenius

    “My mom used to shoe wild burros out of our front yard”
    And you think your mom’s tough. They don’t make ’em like that anymore.

    “He was an asshole, but I liked him”
    According to my favorite Village Voice piece, there are only two kinds of people in the world: creeps and assholes.
    You can like an asshole.
    Creeps? Does anyone like a creep?
    I am proud to be an asshole.

    Rest in peace John. You were an asshole among creeps.

    • D.Y.G.

      “My mom used to shoe wild burros out of our front yard”

      I don’t know why a feral donkey needs shoes, but I know I don’t want to ever try it.

      • 1subgenius

        She probably just did it for fun.

      • richelieu jr

        C’mon guys ‘Tap Shoes’! Think!

      • Captain Howdy

        If you’re going to break them and take them into town on paved roads they need to be shod, no?

        • D.Y.G.

          Shoes, I think, would be further down the list of things to do. You’d probably have to spend weeks gentling a wild burro before it would let you work with it.

          • stillgrace2

            You are right. If wild burros (never met one) are anything like wild horses (whom I do know), it could take many, many months of gentling before they would
            allow someone to pound nails into their hooves, depending on the individual’s temperament and personality.

          • grundoon

            Easy peasy for a Scientologist. Using knowledge of the Tone Scale, you would recognize the emotion one-half to one full tone above the wild burro, communicate in that tone and thus bring it up to higher tones.

      • MissCandle

        Maybe it was Easter. Every one gets new shoes at Easter.

      • Zana

        You’re right… it’s “shoo the donkeys away.” 🙂

      • Troy MacGyver SP

        They stand still for Colombian boys.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VKWLC87Uzw

        • Robert Eckert

          No, I’m not going to click on that. Do we really need that here?

    • Missionary Kid

      I emailed Tony almost exactly the same joke for a correction. The correct word, as we all know, is “shoo.”
      If he leaves it in, it’s probably to see if we’re paying attention.

      • 1subgenius

        Well, that makes a little more sense.

        • Troy MacGyver SP

          I’ve never heard of a group of renegade asses infiltrating a front yard besides those squirrel busters,OSA,Mormons and jehovah’s witnesses.

          • Missionary Kid

            *Snickersnort*

    • Her_Royal_Blondeness

      Can’t help but laugh at a typo/misspelled word when it completely changes the meaning of what the writer intended and becomes hilarious. I envision a poor little old lady chasing goats around the front yard with a pair of saddle shoes in hand. The Daily Mail had a headline the other day that literally caused me to spit coffee on the keyboard. It read ” Is your hairy plughole the reason you are single”? They were talking about bad habits in the article, specifically in this case, habits that are a turn off to someone you are dating. they gave such examples as leaving hair in the sink or shower drain (or “plughole” if you speak the Queen’s English), leaving nail clippings laying around the home, and passing too much “wind” (Queen’s English meaning farts). But the “hairy plughole” comment had me rolling with laughter.

  • Karen de la Carriere

    Thank you Tony for the nice eulogy on Plain Old Thetan. John Joseph was driven to uncover the truth and he understood the duplicity and cover ups all too well. His position on the Church moved greatly in the last 2 years and he was a dedicated reader of the Bunker.
    He cared very much about the conditions within the Sea org ~~ staff members ~~ and the abuse bothered him more than most issues. He saw the actuality and the reality through the fluff and froth and was pleased to get wisened up. Fly High John Joseph. RIP my friend.

    • i-Betty

      I didn’t know Plain Old Thetan well but I know him a little better now after reading Tony’s lovely, warm eulogy. My love to all of you who knew him well. RIP, John, and thank you.

    • J. Swift

      John Joseph was a true spiritual warrior. As Karen said, John really wanted to take down the evil that is the Church of Scientology. He worked tirelessly behind the scenes to educate and inform. John helped many more people leave the Church that the Church will ever possibly know. John was a gentlemen with a wicked sense of humor. I still can’t believe he is gone. My heart goes out to his family.

      Vaya Con Dios John. You made a difference here. Karen and I will miss you and so will so many others.

  • Alanzo

    Seeing the picture you have of him, I realize now that I know John Joseph.

    I was on course at ASHO with him in LA in the 1990’s. And if I remember correctly, he was a non-SO C/S for the orgs around there. In the many times I interacted with him, John was never even close to anything like an asshole. I remember him as a very kind and even sweet person with a great sense of humor who loved helping people, like so many who got caught up in Scientology.

    After a lifetime of living his beliefs, John is finding out right now if Hubbard’s teachings on Scientology are true, like we all will, sooner or later.

    So John, if you are reading this, HELL-OO!.

    Alanzo

    • Alanzo

      Processing this a little more… You have to realize how much of a hardworking and dedicated Scientologist John Joseph was. He was a major asset in the LA area for orgs and missions to get auditing done despite the unwieldy and hyper-expensive bureaucracy of Scientology. This guy was a selfless work-horse.

      I haven’t been around the Church of Scientology for over 13 years, but I am beginning to see what the Indies are saying about how much things have changed in the Church.

      If they declared John Joseph as a Suppressive Person, they really are completely crazy now.

      Alanzo

      • Crimsontide

        Mr. Joseph sounds like a really interesting man, yes, declaring him an SP is completely crazy. Me thinks that COB is very threatened by anyone who has a large presence of personality.
        Tony, thank you for the gracious article. Grace isn’t one of COBs traits.

      • Vic

        I wonder if his declare was part of the Julianne Boudreaux/Bob Pitts Tucson Mission take over project. This and lots of money got her access to do her OT levels….

      • Zana

        I agree…. they are all crazy now. The inmates are running the asylum. It just gets more and more bizarre.

        I got in to Scientology in about 2000 or 2001. I didn’t have any money and maxed out all my credit cards to take some “big” courses… PTS/SP was a good one for me. And I had a good FSM. I put together my own business and started making some money… and with that, I started doing some auditing… which was very, very helpful. So, I was believing all this hook, line and sinker. When the Basics came out I actually had enough money to just buy them. I was so proud of myself and so excited about my business generating enough money to actually buy them… that I didn’t really notice that it was all about money right then.

        What I’m trying to say is… I’m really glad to understand how different it was at the beginning. I guess I got in towards the tail end of whatever was good. I did my auditing with a field group, so I never had to deal with the orgs. The few experiences that I did have with the orgs were a disaster. I never would have audited there. For one, the chairs that I was expected to sit in as an “auditee” were really uncomfortable and stupid. And the auditor had little ARC with me… she was like a policeman pushing buttons on the other side of her e-meter. Interrogating me. Hmmm…. I guess I WAS being interrogated. I guess I was getting a Sec Check.

        I just shake my head in wonder at how much I allowed myself to be fleeced.

        • Alanzo

          Zana –

          I know exactly what you mean. This is the problem of the dual nature of Scientology. Some things, and some situations in Scientology, for some individuals, were objectively and factually, extremely helpful and constructive.

          Other times and places, and for other individuals, Scientology was clearly destructive.

          And then, for some individuals, Scientology was alternately constructive and then destructive. That is how it was for me.

          The general rule that I have found is that the less you got involved, the less “responsibility” you took for Scientology, generally the more beneficial and constructive it was. The less you sacrificed, the less status you sought in the group (never joining staff, not contributing to the IAS) the more your experience in Scientology was a favorable one. That is a kind of general rule I have noticed.

          It is almost like there are as many Scientologys as people who were involved.

          And this is why Scientology is so controversial. It was good or bad depending on your own experience in it and who you had to deal with and what things you were required to do.

          It’s hard for the human mind to process such a mixture. That is why people end up being perceived as saying “it was ALL GOOD!” or “it was ALL BAD!”.

          After they’ve been out of the Church for a while, I don’t think many people actually have either of those positions. They are left with trying to process this mixture and it is very difficult to come to terms with.

          So I have developed a handling: Always try to tell the truth about your experiences, try to defend the defensible, and don’t defend the indefensible. The truth about Scientology is BOTH the good and the bad.

          That handling still doesn’t completely get rid of the confusion of having been in Scientology, but it has made it easier to live with for me.

          Alanzo

          • Anonymous

            Many old timers have independently expressed the observation that the closer one got to Hubbard, where one would expect things to be better, the worse the situation actually was. For them, this was the signal flare that snapped them into an alertness to the truer nature of Scientology.

            The analogy of an onion, with the lighter, sweeter parts on the outside and the darker more sinister parts at the core, has also proven useful:

            http://exscn.net/content/view/178/105/

            • Alanzo

              Exactly, Anonymous Nerd-looking dude.

              Alanzo

            • Anonymous

              Please don’t…that would be too Scientology-like…as it was one of Hubbard’s tricks to have his minions buy his fiction (heh) books by the stack using church monies, only to later recycle those same books through the distribution channel for resale.

              Anything for a stat.

            • Alanzo

              Another layer of my Scientology onion exposed.

              Hey! I think my needle is floating!

              Alanzo (:>)

            • rom661

              Or, for me, chocolate covered cherries. Love the chocolate…. When I was in during the early 70’s I worked with a lot of really nice people looking for answers, especially at the LA org, less so when I went SO. What few good memories I have of the experience involved like minded people who had a conscience and a desire to be better people.

            • Alanzo

              Rom661 –

              I’ve seen that part of Scientology, too.

              It’s important that this part of Scientology not be forgotten.

              Because it did exist for lots of people.

              Alanzo

            • rom661

              Hi Alonzo – in fairness, I’m talking about the people who I worked with. The more I found out about Hubbard and Scientology, the less appealing it was. And I believe that Hubbard was a fraud from the beginning. But there were a number of people there with very good intentions. Although I was starving to death, 6’2″ and 125 pounds, I was never aware of the kind of abuse I’ve since heard about and that was taking place elsewhere. Back in those days you basically didn’t have second and third generations of Scientologists whose moral foundation was based on Hubbard’s sociopath personality. I did blow because I was instructed to do something morally reprehensible involving a young woman who had recently become an amputee.

            • Alanzo

              Rom661 wrote:

              I did blow because I was instructed to do something morally reprehensible involving a young woman who had recently become an amputee.

              Wow. “I was instructed to do something morally reprehensible involving a young woman who had recently become an amputee”….

              My mind is racing on that one.

              Please stop the pictures and tell me what you were instructed to do!

              Alanzo

            • rom661

              I’ve shared it here before so I apologize to those who are tired of it. A young woman in my hometown in the midwest had lost a leg in a car accident. Someone had been in touch with her and she was interested in Scientology. I was supposed to reg her and bring her and her insurance money to LA. Once I started talking to her I realized she believed that Scientology could restore her leg. In fairness I don’t know how she came to believe that. It disturbed me a great deal and I got on the phone and informed my superior that she was only interested because of that belief. He told me it didn’t matter what she believed, do not disabuse her of that notion and get her on a plane to LA ASAP. I blew that night.

            • rom661

              I reread what I originally wrote. I know the story and to me it was morally reprehensible, but I can understand from your perspective that there could be unpleasant “pictures”. Sorry about that. It was disgusting but not that kind of disgusting….

            • Alanzo

              It’s that kind of situation where you are tested in Scientology.

              Great story.

              Thanks.

              Alanzo

            • Anonymous

              There were many good, well-intended people involved in Scientology in it’s first several decades….that most of them ultimately came to the conclusion that their trust in Hubbard and the organization had been betrayed is well chronicled.

            • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

              There are the posts that have easy to control statistics, in some orgs close to the top, positions with no responsibility, no big decisions to make, the “facility differential” sort of needed but not tied to the responsibility positions where one might be ejected if one’s boss who was a big decider could be ejected. Only those posts had it easy.

              The entourage posts, the dog walker, cooks, laundry in charge, butler positions could be palatable, around the very top people, around Mary Sue and LRH.

              The history of the top positions in management is a blood bath when you study the years of top tech and admin leaders at the top of Scientology.

              Since Miscavige’s dictatorship era, he’s been unchecked. It is Miscavige who’s browbeaten every top management person, bar none, all have been stigmatized and dehumanized. Only a few in RTC, like Laurisse Stuckenbrock, and maybe a half dozen other of the top RTC people, like the Treasury lady RTC Barbara Kernbach, that’s the type of position that remains unscathed for decades today. Noori, ex RTC staff would be able to reveal who has somehow remained unscathed in RTC all these years, or Tanya Castle could say. Or John Brousseau would know.

              In different eras things were differently volatile demotions happening suddenly if LRH was unpleased. Constant shuffling to fill positions that LRH suddenly demanded be filled (which his orders had led to those positions being unfilled just before).

              Miscavige brought a dictatorial stability alone to his own position, these last 30 years. Everyone else in the top ranks suffered, and then the lower ranks there is some stability, like people on Security posts, Kenny Seybold, Danny at the Gate, some positions have had stability.

              Some of the Commanding Officers, like ASHO Day John Lundeen today, ASHO Fdn Renee Norton, and CO AOLA Cal Cole, are very stable compared to past standards. So is CO CC Int Dave Petit.

              I don’t know what that means, some people like Lundeen, Norton, Cole and Petit and others like Danilovich, Sonnenfeld and some execs on the Freewinds, and some at OSA Int, have just remained on their positions for 10 and 20 years now, that is remarkable. That’s something that needs a little research, I haven’t quite figured how they have been allowed to stay so long, but they have.

            • Anonymous

              The personal histories of people who served and / or worked with Hubbard up close (Ken Urqhardt, Gerry Armstrong, David Mayo, Hana Eltringham, Yvonne Gillham, Dr. Joeseph Winter and many others) provides a nuanced understanding of what that was like.

              At best, Hubbard was not a beneficent personality. An incredibly large number of folks that worked directly with him either were targeted and discarded by the organization, or like Ken, were later targeted by Hubbard’s replacement, yet are still protective of Hubbard.

              A conclusion that could be drawn is that much of the laudatory commentary about / by Hubbard was written / spoken in the interest of projecting a false ideal that others might want to strive to emulate. That striving was then used in the furtherance of trying to sell the strivers services that would make them “Hubbard-like.”

              That the now known truth about Hubbard is so different than the theater manufactured about him during his lifetime is a very large contributing factor to the decline of internal Scientology supporters and the near absence of new folks willing to get involved with the organization.

              It is pretty clear that things are worse under Miscavige who has decimated the ranks of those who had a shred of independent thinking ability or who were unwilling to be bullied by a hotheaded pissant.

          • Zana

            Thank you, Alanzo. I was only on the periphery. I couldn’t see myself as part of the organization… and I did get a lot of good from it for most of that time. And, you’re right, trying to make sense of the good vs the bad can be confusing. That is why I have decided to just stand on who I am, relax and enjoy my life. Reclaim a lot of parts of myself that have strayed over my lifetime… and live the rest of my life as myself. This is all good.

            My past is rich mulch from which to bloom as who I really am.

            • Alanzo

              Zana wrote:

              My past is rich mulch from which to bloom as who I really am.

              Mulch!!!

              I’ve been using bullshit this whole time!!

              I should switch to mulch!!

              Alanzo (:>)

            • Zana

              Just seeing if you’re paying attention. :-).

              Happy Sunday… Watching the the insanity of the church twirl around faster and faster. It’s spinning out of control now. Today’s posts on Mike and Tony’s site show a lot of people who are literally dizzy with bullshit… Er… Mulch.

              It’s fun to meet you out here.

          • FollowTheMoney

            I disagree, Alanzo. IMHO there is no dual nature of scientology. There is only one nature of scientology and relative levels of harm depending on one’s proximity to the ‘trap’. The scientologists who experience benefits without consequences are the insects who drink the nectar from the lip of the Pitcher plant but who go no further toward the trap in its carnivorous belly. Could we really say the nectar is ‘good’ when it is specifically designed to lead to entrapment? If fully able to understand the choice, would an insect prefer the nectar from the Pitcher plant or from the flowers in the fields that provide without any risk of harm? The big picture is that an organism/ organisation that uses deception as a lure for its own carnivorous purposes means unequivocal harm to its targets. If the targets enjoy the lure, it doesn’t mean that the lure is ‘good’ or ‘beneficial’, it means only that the lure is effective.

            • Alanzo

              FollowTheMoney –

              Yikes, friccking Christ Almighty!

              If you put it that way, no one ever got a gain at all from Scientology – they just escaped a deathtrap.

              It might be true that if they were not harmed then they escaped a trap, but that does not mean they got no nourishment by drinking from Scientology’s “nectar”.

              Come on, dude.

              Scientology is just a toxic spiritual deception.

              That’s not a Nazi Blitzkrieg, or an American Shock and Awe bombing campaign.

              Alanzo

          • Peter

            Extremely good post, Alanzo. MOST of what I experienced was (to me) good and productive. I’ve still got good friends from a very long time ago, as well. That, too, is a blessing. But, like all else, everything in life is a lesson. How fast we learn each one is the interesting challenge. We choose our games, our allies and our enemies in order to play the “life” game, and we truly get to keep score by our satisfaction – or pain – in the playing.

  • MaxSpaceman

    Another terrific Surviving $cientology Radio program from Jeffrey Augustine, featuring Marc Headley.

    • J. Swift

      MaxSpaceman, Marc Headley is a superb raconteur, a great natural born storyteller. He effortlessly carries the show. He has become a regular guest and there will be more interviews with him because the audience wants more Marc.

  • IBBy

    The juxtaposition of yesterday’s elation with today’s sadness is doing a number on my emotions. All Ican say to John is thank you for speaking up, even if it was nameless to us. God speed to wherever you are going, we will continue to fight in your name now as well, as we add another star to the wall

  • Scream Nevermore

    RIP John.

  • philosofa

    Sorry to derail the the thread a little but these spam ads on craigslist offering “training” in a fraudulent medical practice, as a hook to recruit the unwary punter, is a particular bugbear of mine. Do any ex-scns from the Sacramento area know of this Dr Charles R Russell and what do the initials – DC- after his name actually represent?

    mento >all community >general communityreply
    x flagged [?]
    Posted: a day ago
    “How May I Assist You” Workshop (Sacramento)Saturday – July 12, 2014 from 9:30 – 12:30

    Do you know someone who is sick?

    Do you know someone who is injured?

    Do you know someone who has just suffered an emotional shock?

    Here is how you can help them with faster recovery time!

    Dr. Charles R. Russell, D.C., will be teaching simple techniques (called “Assists”) that you will be able to easily apply to help your family or friends recover faster from illnesses or injuries.

    Learn the techniques in our one-and-half hour workshop. Lunch included.

    $10 includes materials and refreshments

    9:30 Registration – coffee

    10:00 Interactive workshop – Assists

    11:30 Lunch

    River Park Life Improvement Center
    3825 Marconi Avenue
    Sacramento, CA

    • NOLAGirl

      D.C. = Doctor of Chiropractic

      • philosofa

        Thank you NOLAGirl. Googlehearsay would have been my friend in this instance. I should have checked that out first.

    • richelieu jr

      D.C.- Drinker of Crapology

      • philosofa

        D.C. = Deceitful Cultist.

    • noseinabk

      http://sacramento.craigslist.org/com/4552114336.html

      So they just change the business name every time they put new bait on the hook?

      3825 Marconi Avenue Sacramento, CA

      River Park Life Improvement Center
      Dianetics Life Improvement Center
      Dianetics and Scientology Life Improvement Centeof Scientology Riverpark
      New Life Community Counseling Center

    • Clammit

      Riverpark Life Improvement is the Dianetics and Scientology Improvement Center. Once again we see that members are well aware their brand is poison. Scientologist Julie Gallaher works the social media, via Eventbrite. Since there’s only a handful of staff, likely works the Craigslist. Jeannie Hanson is or was in charge of the center. Was declared in the 90’s. This must be her masochistic penance.

      http://www.eventbrite.com/e/business-success-mixer-marketing-w-social-media-pinterest-fun-easy-tickets-5535863918?aff=eorg

      Charles Russell is the inevitable chiropractor lured in to Scientology woo. He is only listed on Kirsti’s site as 2002 Honor Roll for IAS. That means he enticed X number of dupes to pay the IAS toll, up their status.

      http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/stats/by-name/c/charles-r.-russell.html

      I wouldn’t worry too much. Here’s a screen shot of their June assist workshop event:

      Likely the 1 person listed is Russell himself – or the reg, likely Jeannie who is also likely the janitor and window washer. Even if someone is fooled by vague ads and shows up, if they still have the Scientology sign up front, it’s effective on keeping anyone actually walking in to their Ideal Trap.

      http://i.imgur.com/7EcmJTk.jpg?1

      • philosofa

        Thanks for that info, Clammit. ROFLMA that only 1 attendee is listed for June and that was most probably a staff member. The good people of Sacramento are obviously way too smart to fall for the clam scam.

        Poor Ms Gallaher seems doomed to be disappointed in her dissemination efforts…hope she wakes up soon.

  • I have interacted with Plain Old Thetan often since I left the Church last year and was always fascinated by the things he posted on his blog and what he had to say behind the scenes in our emails. And that whole time, I had no idea I was interacting with a man I knew back in the day in Los Angeles – John Joseph. I remember John well from when he was C/Sing at ASHO and helping out. He was a smarty pants “techie” Briefing Course graduate who prided himself on his knowledge of all the LRH lectures, but behind that kind of know-it-all exterior was the nicest guy in the world who bent over backwards to help whenever he was asked. I remember him being awarded at one Graduation for having listened to every LRH lecture that existed up to that time. Then one day I stopped seeing him around and I lost track of him entirely.

    Scientology has a very bad habit of chewing up and spitting people out. Once it has no further use for you, no matter what you have accomplished or what good you have done, you are just so much junk for the rubbish pile. Hubbard created a monster that way and Miscavige has only upped the horribleness. John was one of those who survived that and realized that it’s that system which is wrong and not him. He rose above it and continued to help people and do good. That is as good a description of heroism and bravery as I know. John, I will miss you and I know many others will to. I hope you are in a better place and are doing well. I believe you are. Good luck.

    • TDA1541A
      • joeapple212

        Of course it’s psychotic! Why gamble your money away when you could give it to Ron? (refresh)

        • I was running someones case and was flattening a buton he had aquired on his whole track, he had a big attention on gambling. Merely trying to help and so on and so forth.

          Yours sincerely Ron

      • Not too long ago the crime syndicate would be screaming their dung and demanding that text be “returned” to Scientology as a “copyright violation.”

        • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

          It’s good public service knowledge helping people against losing time and money on Scientology.

          • Chuck you have abig MU’s on the subject of Scientology. I have sheduled a hearty talk with little Dave for you.

            Ron

            • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

              I’m blank, what can I say!

            • I love blank a canvas,

              Ron

      • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

        I think this bulletin was typical L. Ron Hubbard sendoff to a defected Class 12 Scientologist.

        A Hubbard revenge review of that person who defected. Hubbard’s take on dissenting senior people in the movement was scathing condemnation of their “case” that was their supposed problem for defecting. Not for a second did Hubbard listen to their criticism which was likely due to Hubbard’s system one way or another. Hubbard wrote them off with bulletins like the above, deflecting and slightly blaming the others in Scientology tech areas for failing to deal with that defecting member’s “case” problems.

        • Troy MacGyver SP

          It seems so many people DO go back. Alienated from a world they no longer belong to they put their hand right back on the hot frying pan.

          • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

            Needs surveying, since I’ve noticed they quit again later, after their retry, Sea Org staff that is. These new oldsters joining staff, give them a few years, they’ll quit again.

            • sizzle8

              Why was HCOB “The Gambler” deleted?

            • Bad cases of Lumbosis have been reported ofter it’s release. I have deciced to repackage as a special course on OT8 not to be seen or mentioned on OT7 or lower on the Bridge.

              Sincerely yours, Ron

            • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

              You’re missing out on Las Vegas Blvd dissemination if you ask me! I thought you were more recompense oriented for all your “LRH properties”!

              Theory being 1/2 the gaines, maybe expand “The Gambler” into a Way to Happiness precept, and offer the booklet appropriate at the growing gambling institutions worldwide,that is an untapped income source if you ask me!

            • Research is allready being done on it Chuck my good pal. We will move this project of mine-with your humble input of course- forward with the latest dessimination technology and so on and so forth.
              http://blog.modernmechanix.com/mags/PopularScience/7-1946/gamble_happiness.jpg

            • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

              Trust restored, good old Ron! You’re the best! Cosmic!

              Hey, how’re the ASI staffers coming on their this years’ “Million Dollars for ASI” quotas they set themselves yearly?

              Any hot skinny on ASI’s glittering ideas and output? (ASI’s somehow hasn’t been clicking no great ideas for making new products out of your properties, since Norman Starkey and Fred Harris left it, if you ask me!)

            • There are too many 1.1 types around since to my taste since Little Dave is running the show. @$#% every office is stacked with Sissy Pants Wishky and not one good bottle Rum, that is El Ron in spanish for you.

              Main operations will be moved to Asia and Russia, America is a totally abberated continent dramatizing the marcab civilazation even more precise than before.

              Norm and Fred , I will look into their situation

            • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

              Norman came up with the archival sets of the OEC and Red Volumes, standardly CST loaded into a titanium CST storage capsule, sold this super special LRH property for some all time big donation to ASI’s client biggest Scientology follower whales, back in the day when ASI staff were thinking with how to make their 1 million bucks for ASI, is all I’m saying! (So if today you’re at one of those all time biggest whale’s house, and notice a CST capsule on display, think of Norman Starkey executing LRH’s order to all ASI staff to think up ways to make a million for ASI to make their yearly quotas for ASI.)

            • Chuck old fella, duplicated. We will see how many stray cats like them we can get back in the fold and whip into shape without mercy or hesitation for their own good.

              That’s all, over and out

            • “The way out is the way through”

              Ron

            • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

              sort of like, “I only give them facts” which you sang in Road to Freedom, correct?

              At least you allowed us who want to leave the option to go, as shown in the tech film of the Auditor’s Code which shows use of the “Refund and Repayment Routing Form” allowing a person to leave, if they follow all the procedures of that routing form!

              And Keeping Scientology Working says you want the people who want to quit, they should be let quit fast! Thanks for that! See you never!

        • ABBERATION !Chuck, your Ruds are deffiniately out. You will report to the Ethics Officer RIGHT NOW young buddy!

          Yours sincerely, Ron

          • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

            Well, well, well. We in RTC see that the Commodore still suffers from misspellings. Care for some hatting on how to use spellchecker sir? It’s what we in RTC are here for.

            • Bleed them dry for me little Dave. On another note,where is my weekly suitcase of cash young lad. Od things are going on: BT’s BT’s everywhere

              Your pall Ron

            • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

              Thank you sir. And please never change. COB can easily make another $100,000,000 in tax free cash issuing your revised-revised-revised works (working name: R3). Oh and by the way, where is your the latest shipment from T2? COB needs it for the IAS Event in October.

            • Make it go right boy, kick them all in the teeth. That’s the stuff, That’s the stuff I tell’ya. Exteriorize them right there on the spot

              Your Commodore

          • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

            I can’t talk about it, “Leaving and Leaves” policy, you know! I’m working with the EO/MAA (silence).

            • That’s the spirit Chuck! you are made from the stuff stars in the gaLAXy are made off, the building blocks of legends.

              Don’t be squirrle about it, not even a quazillionst of an Inch you hear! OT’s conquer sees and move mountains. Make it so number one.

              Your friend Ron

    • Tory Christman

      As much as we *know* it happens….I still hate to see good people die. 🙁 I hope….especially having lost some dear friends of mine, somehow there IS a way we can all meet up “on the other side”…where ever the ____ that is 🙂 To “Plain Old Thetan”…thank you for ALL that you did to help others. Much love to you, your family and many friends. May you fly high and smile knowing you are greatly loved, and that’s forever. <3 Tory/Magoo

  • flyonthewall

    i keep thinking it’s Sunday today. I was like hey, this isnt a very funny article.

  • richelieu jr

    I am grateful for the opportunity to appreciate the human being behind the avatar and occasionally annoying opinions.

    It is important to never forget that there are real human beings out there,with real emotions and lives. (Yes, even when they are ‘Wogs’. Or ‘indies’. Or ‘Scilons’).

  • richelieu jr

    Appendicitis, what a way to go…. It’s like someone left somehting behind, unevolved, that seems to serve no other purpose other than to hurt people and make them suffer… Say a book, or a movement…

  • “…the “Sunday Service” is put on mostly for public relations purposes…”

    We have had people show up for these fake “Sunday Services” just to see what would happen and they have reported that the Scientology customers are at a loss as to what to do when actual people show up. Despite the scam being advertised some times in “wog” places, if anyone actually does show the Scientology people walk around trying to find someone in charge who can make the wog go away while still trying to pretend.

    “We held services early. You missed it” is a good one they have used, or they try to find excuses on why the “services” were canceled. Everyone knows it’s a lie, they don’t expect anyone out in the real world to believe it either.

    • richelieu jr

      I was told they’d just finished the only time I tried at the HWood branch
      (to be fair, there did seem to be a couple of people there doing something. I had that feeling like when you walk into a room where a private conversation has been going on and everyone kind of starts?)…

      • The org websites frequently have a Sunday Service time listed, as well as a hook to Google Maps. Of course, all those websites are owned and operated from LA. I doubt the local org staff can just access the page and change it.

        • That’s amusing. I wonder if local business offices are even aware that their rulers in Los Angeles are making the claims that the “orgs” are having “Sunday Services.”

          “That’s the first I heard about this” would be the honest answer if wogs actually showed up.

          • The claimed operating hours are like that too.

            Does anyone really believe that the Paris Celebrity Centre is open from 9am to 11pm every day of the week?

        • richelieu jr

          Yeah, i’d got the hour from their little list, in fact.

          I’ve always thought their reaction was surprise that someone actually showed.

      • 🙂 “Just finished.” 🙂 Yep. The reports to a.r.s always told of how lost and bewildered Scientology people were, at a loss for what to do or say if someone actually showed up. “Just finished, sorry you missed it” is a good one. 🙂

    • KNMF
  • 1subgenius

    More child exploitation, as reported by Mike Rinder:

    “the only org in the Americas with special facilities to cater to the child Scientologists to guarantee their ascent up the Bridge”

    http://www.mikerindersblog.org/first-ideal-city/

    • NOLAGirl

      Does the photo of the outdoor event on the flier look strange to you?

      • Mark Foster

        lots of blue shirts(staff)…

      • Troy MacGyver SP

        The dead clam’s photo looks like it is a bad cut and paste w/ scissors job.

    • philosofa

      So now we know the whereabouts of the new manufacturing facility for scientology children (who are just adults in small “meat-bodies” according to the cult) to be used for assembling e-meters, as described by Mark Headley in the latest interview with by J Augustine.

      I know, I know… a very tasteless joke. Perhaps I should have used sarcasm brackets.

      • joan nieman

        Yes philosofa, the children are suffering in all aspects. Their personalities and self-esteem, their education, their life skills and all the basics for developing in to an individual with an open mind and an open heart.It has got to stop.This is the year 2014 for Heaven’s sake! We are not a third world country that condones child labor….Oh wait.

    • More filthy Scientology human rights crimes against kids. 🙁 We saw in 1998 at the Lisa McPherson Memorial Protest children working slave labor, wish we had called the cops or asked the FBI to come look.

    • Troy MacGyver SP

      Thought they already had that,Mace-kinsey,school of child abuse. Parent’s send their 4 year old there for auditing.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      The reason they are doing this is that the facility they bought included a child care center. The Christian church that outgrew this facility had purchased an apartment complex next door, attached it to the main building, and used it as a school and day care. So the Valleyites are just remodeling someone else’s facility.

      And here’s the condition it was in this April when I happened to be down in LA for a drive-by. Scientology has let the whole place fall apart. I feel sorry for the neighbors– even if it is a dodgy part of town…

      (refresh)

  • Fred

    A son of a surgeon died after suffering complications from appendicitis? I don’t get it. I know that Scientologists don’t like psychiatrists but they are getting operations…

    • MaxSpaceman

      you find out after a while Fred that $cilons believe in $cietology curing their illnesses. They shun doctors.

      • Fred

        I am still are confused. Sclons are not allowed to hang out here or on other critical website but Tony says John Joseph was a friend to his website. How does that go hand in hand? Excuse my questions but I am rather new here.

        • Eivol Ekdal

          He was a declared indie.
          He was a ‘Friend of LRH’ and Tony.
          It happens.

        • Robert Eckert

          After he was declared an SP, he stopped being a “Church” Scientologist and became an “Independent” Scientologist. Indies can do whatever they like.

        • MaxSpaceman

          John had left the cherch so he was in contact with Tony and frequented his Website. Lots of ex-$cientologists read the Bunker. Still-in $cilons are ‘not allowed’ to hang out here; John wasn’t still-in.

    • kemist

      I was told by a doctor friend that appendicitis is one of those things which are diagnosed on the operating table.

      There are no tests to confirm, and the clinical presentation often looks like other things, diverticulitis for instance. That is why people still occasionally die from it. For one of my friends, it had burst when he was finally brought in surgery, but his very good health (he was biking over a 100 km a day at that time) allowed him to survive.

      • when i had surgery in 2003 to remove a mammoth mass, they also removed my appendix as the surgeon said it was about 5 times the size it should have been and was in danger of bursting…..i had symptoms of that…..so i was fortunate i was already getting surgery…..

        • Fred

          scary

          • it was when i was told about it!!! i knew i had a mammoth mass, knew nothing about my appendix!! heck the mass didn’t cause me problems—didn’t even know it existed til about a month before surgery and they said it had probably been growing for 20+ years!

            • Troy MacGyver SP

              Off topic but I was talking to a detective about this;

              B for Flo Miller Barnett – a notorious “suicide”. She was David Miscavige’s mother-in-law, and had fallen out with him and with her daughter. She threatened to sue Scientology. She died on 8 September 1985 having been shot three times in the chest and once in the head by a gun almost as long as she was.

              He claims that often the perpetrators have friends in high places or dirt on them. He’s seen many overt cases swept under the rug.

            • That would explain that, wouldn’t it? I could never understand how/why that was ruled a suicide…..

            • VargasZiegfeld

              Just another so-called scientology suicide, right, Miss Tia? It’s just unbelievable what this criminal corporation has gotten away with and continues to get away with.

            • Troy MacGyver SP

              That’s what scares me. They move these people around many have no ties w/ family and then suddenly no one ever seems to see them again. I wouldn’t put murder past a psychopath like,dm. Although I’m sure he never gets his toddler sized hands dirty.

            • VargasZiegfeld

              Agreed. Example: Shelly M. Bet she knows all the dirt on her dear hubby.

    • My brother had a close call when having his appendix out. It turned out that he has major allergy to the anesthetic they used. Luckily (or Wog Phenomena!), the operation was being done by the hospital chief surgeon, who just happened to be friends with the world-leading medical researcher of that allergy at the time, and figured out what has happening. He got my brother into an ice bath and got his heart started in record time.

      Science (and knowing the right people), fuck yeah!

  • richelieu jr

    ‘Rancid Tacos’ Enough already about Hubbard’s sex life!

    • Missionary Kid

      I’d down vote that, except that I’m laughing too hard.

    • i think rancid tacos would make a great punk band name!

  • Techie

    Thanks again J. Augustine for your excellent interview with Marc. I can verify from personal experience that he speaks sooth. I can’t for the life of me figure out what it means to say the VIII is “50,000 times more sensitive”. For those who have never used a meter, the sensitivity is an adjustment that controls how large the reactions are that you see on the needle. If you turn it way down you won’t see any reactions and if you turn it up too far you will have the needle flying all over the place and will miss a lot of reactions. The sensitivity setting is matched to the subject at the beginning of every session. The basic rule of thumb is that the setting tends to go down as the subject gets more auditing. In fact, the lowest sensitivity level available on the meter was made even lower at Hubbard’s request when the MK VII was released. A super sensitive meter would thus help you audit an FBI agent or a raving SP (supposedly a true sociopath does not register on the meter at all). It cannot help the average Scientologist whose sensitivity setting is well within the capabilities of the meters going all the way back to the 50s. Maybe Dave M is hoping to find a meter that will work on him? At any rate, they were using MK VIII meters in disguise at the Flag Land Base around 2000. If the revolutionary sensitivity of the new meter was real, and actually meant something, there would have been soaring results at Flag and a new era of Scientology expansion starting then. Since there wasn’t I guess we can just chalk this up as another number extracted from the nether regions of some desperate staffer inspired by stale tacos or rice and beans. Like the 6 million (or is it 8? or 10? or 12?) active Scientologists in the most rapidly expanding religion in the world… Marc makes another good point about the technology of the VIII. In fact, it is not even at the pinnacle of technology available in the 90’s when it was being designed. It is a pretty pedestrian microcontroller application, not a true microprocessor like the iPod Touch. People talk of adding a USB port, in fact that is far beyond the capabilities of the chip they used. To be fair, the application does not need a touch screen etc. and they are stuck with a physical needle so they don’t need any graphics capability. So this is no hit on the outside contractors they hired to do the meter after I failed to do it myself. They did a pretty good job in the face of a barrage of changing requirements, niggling update requests and outright ranting and raving from Dave M. That it could be done today with a tablet and a handful of external parts is quite true. That is not what Dave has in mind though. The VIII was supposed to solve Gold’s finance problems forever and get them toilet paper and a little salsa with their rice and beans. At least that is what he told us. Again, it is all about the money. The patents are signed over to Hubbard so some money for every VIII goes to Dave via his hobby horses at CST. At least that is how it worked for the VII, surely some similar arrangement has been made for the VIII.

    • Once_Born

      I can’t for the life of me figure out what it means to say the VIII is “50,000 times more sensitive”

      I think the person who wrote that claim simply did not understand what he was talking about (bear with me – these are Scientologist copywriters we’re talking about).

      The old-fashioned analogue meter was continuously variable. The new e-meter has a digital-to-analogue converter, which was likely put there to enable the CofS to ‘record’ sessions and enable them to
      monitor it remotely.

      Consequently, the movement of the new meter needle is limited to 50,000 discrete steps It is neither more nor less sensitive that the previous device. The only difference is that the needle moves in a series of tiny, fixed increments (which the best human eyesight can’t resolve) instead of a continuous movement.

      So – a Scientology copywriter heard that the new meter has 50,000 digital steps and the previous one had none – therefore it is 50,000 times better (because statistics).

      • Techie

        Well, 12 bits gives you 4096 steps. I talked them into over-ranging it a bit so you effectively only get some 3500 steps or so. The extra steps give a guard band so it is possible to reproduce a rock slam even if there are large excursions in it. Basically allowing some head room so it doesn’t clip (in audio geek-talk). Well, we won’t ever know what was going through the head of the sleep-deprived copy writer that came up with that red herring until they wise up and blow. Hopefully soon!

    • grundoon

      Could it be that they switched from an 8-bit ADC in the VII to a 24-bit ADC in the MK ULTRA VIII? That would mean the current through the cans would be measured in 16 million steps instead of just 256. A change of one step in the current would now become 65,536 minuscule steps. They round this to 50,000 because it’s easier to remember. At best this is only theoretical precision – even if the ADC is that precise, one strong link does not make a strong chain. Other components, like the resistors and trimpots, don’t even have 1% precision. They use a dial with no numbers, only 25 steps on the tone arm (2% precision at best, counting half steps) and 21 on the sensitivity knob (adds at least 2% slop). Obviously the old 8-bit ADC was already more accurate than anything else in the meter and more than they needed. With more bits, they might smooth out any small roughness in the needle motion, or they might get away with simplifying the electronics by using a fixed voltage across the cans. But I’m guessing that they just picked the chip that would be cheapest overall and it happened to come with a 24-bit ADC built in.

      “the outside contractors they hired to do the meter after I failed to do it myself…” I hope there is a story here that you’ll tell someday.

      • I forget about the input on the Easybake patent circuit, but the output driving the meter is a 12 bit DAC with 4096 levels.

      • Techie

        Sorry so late replying, grundoon, I was out taking my mom to a museum. The quantum doesn’t actually digitize the reads, it is still basically analog (infinite resolution if you ignore quantum effects). So I don’t see how the resolution makes it more sensitive, and as you say it should be a power of two if it is related to the digitization. However, it is extremely likely that some sleep-deprived copy-writer seized on some number in the specifications and came up with “50,000”. Maybe I will tell my whole story somewhere sometime, right now I am working overtime trying to get a product to market.

        • grundoon

          Thanks for taking the time to answer, Techie. I hope you and your mom had a wonderful time, with not a wisp of a thought of Scientology all day long. A very happy and free Independence Day weekend to you and all your loved ones. And good luck with your product.

          There goes another of my lovely suppositions, sunk by facts. Oh well, I still like the idea that the 50,000 came about by rounding off 65,536 to the closest number that Dave could remember. I might still be able to rescue my dear little theory if I postulate a 16-bit ADC in the MK ULTRA VIII, rather than 24-bit. Come on, SP Powaazz…

        • Eivol Ekdal

          I don’t know what your product is but if the Bunker can help, give us a shout.
          Observer can do the artwork, Capt. Howdy can do the product manual text.
          😉

        • Eivol Ekdal

          This patent pretty much describes the MkVII/VIII that Marc describes…
          http://www.freepatentsonline.com/8121676.pdf

          Input
          ADS1210U – 24 Bit $12
          http://www.ti.com/product/ads1210
          Output

          DAC7611 – 12 Bit $6
          http://www.ti.com/product/dac7611

          • grundoon

            Thanks!

    • J. Swift

      Thanks for sharing your thoughts Techie. I always enjoy your posts and analysis.

      When I told Marc Headley that I couldn’t think of what “50,000x more sensitive” means when it comes to the new meter, I was approaching this from working in electronics for 30+ years all day everyday. I have worked on military radars and missiles, lasers, spectrophotometers, medical endoscopy and many other incredible devices. I was in Technical Sales and sold to mostly to scientific and medical OEM’s My life was specs, R&D, product launches, maintenance, and even handling legacy products when they were put out to pasture. Never once have I heard any OEM claim a 50,000x improvement in product performance. Such a claim would certainly stand out as it would signify that an OEM’s prior product was 50,000x worse and that the OEM had no idea what they were doing in general.

      “50,000x more sensitive” is a meaningless and undocumented product claim. There is no evidence or documentation from the Cult that it is based upon a sampling rate or anything else. The entire burden is on the Cult to establish the basis of its stated product claim.

      The Cult did claim “light speed” for this year 2000 era Ultra Mark VIII meter. When I checked the patent on this not-so-new meter I found a simple optical device. Hence, the Cult’s claim of “light speed” is also ridiculous. This is like saying that a Yugo has “light speed” because it has headlights. Technically speaking, this would be true because the VIS photons emitted from the headlights do move at C. In this respect, someone who just went off a cliff in the dark in their Yugo would at least see the ground approaching with “light speed” so to speak.

      Nevertheless, if the Cult of Scientology wants to make outlandish product claims then I should not be surprised as it has been doing so since 1950! It’s just that I want the Cult to stay away from doing such things when it comes to our precious wog electronics!

      • Eivol Ekdal

        I have seen the optical device in the meter and it’s sole purpose is to shunt the moving coil when the meter is off to prevent damage during transport. Oh, there is an optical encoder on the TA as well. My take on the current pricing is that DM may have got the cost of the main board down to $40 if you throw away all R&D costs. Once you add on the cost of the custom meter movement, enclosure, cover, cans and travel case, etc – my guess for total cost is in the $300 – $500 ballpark (depending on how much DM has wasted with his meddling).
        -side note: I sure do love the podcasts JS!
        -Do you think you can get Dylan on for a Trementina special?

        • J. Swift

          Eviol, I would very much like to interview Dylan on Trementina and CST.

          *****
          I saw the optical encoder and the other device on the Mark VIII and thought they were common. Nothing special here, no rocket science. What intrigued me was the thought that the non-Scientologist electronics designer (his name is on the patent) had to familiarize himself with e-meters and auditing in general and then integrate this into the new meter using software. I posted the patent here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/230919778/Scientology-Ultra-Mark-VIII-E-Meter-Patent

          It is now known that the aesthetics of the Ultra Mark VIII were “re-purposed” from a child’s toaster oven and that is just funnier than hell to me. The wog design firm obviously did not take the Church seriously as a client. The design firm probably tossed some existing designs at the Church until Miscavige found one that he felt to be sufficiently terrifying and yet tasteful attractive. This is Miscavige’s basic “Nuremberg Rally-TV Game Show” aesthetic. Miscavige is hopelessly lost in the 1980’s in the same way that LRH was lost in the 1950’s. Apparently, neither of them can escape the gravitational pull of Marcabian civilization. After all, when all is done and said we are all still wogs. The simple beauty of this cog is so liberating.

          My thinking is that the Church gave the lead electronics designer the meter read simulator it uses to train auditors. The simulator as already been programmed to simulate all meter reads. Hence, the designer of the Ultra Mark VIII would simply need to convert the electrical values for each read into software. There are numerous and simple “if-then” software commands that correspond to skin resistance. The sampling rate is simply a function of a skin resistance value over time.

          If we call skin resistance value “SKV” and Time “T” then, the equation is:

          SKV x T = meter read.

          This is as simple as knowing SKV for all possible reads and then programming those values into a lookup chart in a semiconductor. That is all the meter read simulator is anyway.

          The Ultra Mark VIII appears to have met with lukewarm reception. As a new product, it is not a world-beater and has not been featured in Popular Mechanics. The machine the same trajectory as the Yugo and is heading for an early graveyard. I predict that Miscavige has to rush a new meter into production in order to overcome the knock on the Mark VIII, i.e. it was 10+ years old at launch.

          The shocking fact is that the “new” Ultra Mark VIII e-meter costs more than a brand new Yugo did back in 1988:

          [IMG]http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i68/sadhu77/yugo-00.jpg[/IMG]

  • Still_On_Your_Side

    John Joseph was too young to die, and I do not doubt that the seeds of his ill health were planted during his years in the church. I am very sorry that his voice is no longer going to be heard.

  • 0tessa

    RIP Good Old Thetan.
    You will be missed.

  • Vaquera

    Hopefully John’s sister, Mary, will read the outpouring of today’s comments. Mary mentioned that John wanted his ashes sent into space; my father wants the same thing. There is a Houston based company, Celestis, who has been doing just that since 1997. I hope this info helps her….

    http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Houston-company-space-ashes-4613010.php
    http://www.celestis.com

  • PreferToBeAnon2

    * RIP, John. Thank you for carrying the baton.

    * I scanned Jeff Harris’ answer. He has some legal chops, for sure! That read like sound rational to overturn the lower court to me.

    * I will ignore the Feshbach painting… I will ignore the Feshbach painting… I will ignore the Feshbach painting…

  • pronoia

    RIP Plain Old Thetan. You made a wonderful contribution here — as I am sure you did in all facets of your life. You will be missed.

  • EnthralledObserver

    RIP John…

  • Kim O’Brien

    Everyone dies … I hope he got a chance to live a little

    • Captain Howdy

      ….

      • Kim O’Brien

        yeah …i think you’re right . BTW …that joint is sitting on my coffee table

    • joan nieman

      I like what you said Kim. I hope he does too.

  • outraged

    Thank you John for your courageous battle against The Dark Lord. You were obviously a Not So Plain Old Thetan. My heart goes out to those who knew him. Like too many others he died far too young.

  • Mat Pesch

    In 1988 the Flag Service Org (FSO) had an average income of over $2,000,000 per week. The FSO staff blamed the Flag Crew staff for the shit food and had a serious antagonism toward them. When I was made the Captain Flag Crew I went to the FSO afternoon muster to address the subject of food. I explained to the FSO crew that their food allocation came from their Financial Planning (FP) and that money was transferred to Flag Crew every week. I explained that Flag Crew was only given $2 per day or $.67 per meal to feed them and that was the real reason their food sucked. It was a TOTAL shock and surprise to the almost 1,000 staff.
    While it is true that Scientologist live in an information bubble, staff live in a tiny, tiny bubble within that bubble. They know their little job and almost nothing about what goes on in the rest of the organization. A staff member working in the Fort Harrison can go years without ever going inside the Sandcastle. Flag has a furniture mill down the street from the Fort Harrison. It has been there for over 10 years. With the exception of those who have worked in the mill, almost NONE of the 1,500 staff at Flag have ever gone to see it. The staff are so busy trying to survive in their tiny bubble that they have no time or energy to look up or think about things. Its truly amazing and a common trait of a cult.

    • Anonymous

      Thanks for posting this…it is useful insight for those that have not experienced the deliberate vacuum of information in which most staff live / work. It is not possible to make informed decisions when one is deliberately kept uninformed, or worse, willfully fed false information.

      A good exercise for those on the outside is to try and remember the single most shocking betrayal one has ever experienced, be it the sudden and unexpected departure of a spouse or lover for another, the discovery that someone you trusted stole all your money, being fired on deliberately false gorunds from a job you held for a decade…any huge life altering event with long term emotional and financial ramifications. Remember how terrible that was?

      That IS the scale of betrayal that is being perpetrated on most Sea Org members virtually every day. The only ones that know this to be true are the ones that have left or the very few at the top that know the organization is ill-intended, but are too corrupt themselves to blow the whistle. Most of the remainder know something is wrong and are just trying to survive the nastiness, hoping that things will eventually improve.

      It’s the few at the top, and the horde of professional enablers (lawyers, PI’s, OSA) that allow the abuses to continue, who are deserving of enmity, scorn and ultimately, justice.

      The average Sea Org staffer is a collaborator / victim, largely ignorant of the details and machinations that make Scientology reprehensible.

      As those average staffers discover the truth they usually depart, at varying speed, depending on their resources and / or courage.

      As we have seen on this board and elsewhere, those that have departed are quite different from each other and generally well intended folks.

      • Mark Foster

        Nice analogy regarding the magnitude of betrayal…

      • philosofa

        Thank you, Anonymous. It helps so much for us never-ins to understand better when an ex-scn like yourself draws such a poignant analogy. How incredibly painful it must be to realize the magnitude of the betrayal by the cof$ against the well-meaning people it ensnares in its web.

        This is why I hold no contempt AT ALL for the people in the “church” – well, maybe for just a few – or for ex-members, who were victims in the worst way themselves. it is the cult I hate, not the poor souls trapped inside it.

      • Techie

        Hurray Anonymous, you have nailed it. Most of the people I knew while “in” would give you the shirt off their backs and would practically lay down their lives for you. But their dedication is to a false cause. It is really a tragedy, but one repeated throughout history, of charlatans inventing causes to die for and hapless dupes dying and killing for such imaginary causes. There are causes worth dying for but not Scientology!

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        The closest I can describe the indescribable is to refer to any Escher drawing. The more you look at it, the more it seems improbable. My favorite Compartmentalization of Scientology Staff story is when I first was shocked in learning all about Hubbard’s corporate restructuring and the betrayal factor shot like an arrow in the heart. It was then followed by riproaring snort laughing learning that the person handling it was one of the mysterious WDC (Watchdog Committee) VIP’s and that person had been right above my head on the floor of above me when I was in PAC.

        That person was Denise (then Larry) Brennan and we never met in person until Patty Moher’s SP Party roughly 30 years later. It might help for others to understand that you are kept crazy busy and exhausted non stop, so many of your vital brain functions are only firing on a couple of pistons. Few ever serve on FP (financial planning) or EC (executive council) meetings. That is where the truth is discovered under lock and key and secret tunnels in dark, damp 8 x 10 windowless rooms. And That is why many financial personnel and executives land in some kind of hole soon or later and if they escape, they are tracked for short or long periods depending on how high up and how much they know.

        I’ve said before that in the Sea Org, the right hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing.
        http://i.imgur.com/sTMlPSl.jpg?1

        • Anonymous

          Agreed. Compartmentalization is a key component of any secretive organization. It minimizes the damage when one of the inner circle goes feral or is “turned” by the enemy.

          “Face” at ESMB has described the information provided by each individual ex-Scientologist as one tile of the mosaic that collective illuminates the whole picture of Scientology. This seems like an excellent analogy.

          It is a safe bet that even folks that have never been in Scientology but who are regulars on this board, know more about the true history of the church and it’s leadership than do the majority of still-in Scientologists.

        • philosofa

          You once posted about the sheer debilitating exhaustion suffered by sea org people and members of staff inside scientology and how it impairs the ability to make good judgments or think clearly in the frantic, busy,busy, busy world of the cult.

          I was totally able to relate to that, on a less grim scale. Having nursed my mother through Alzheimer’s disease and suffering a lack of sleep for only a couple of years I could see what an incredibly detrimental effect severe sleep deprivation has on those within the confines of scientology. I was told by my mothers Community Psychiatric Nurse that sleep deprivation is a powerful method of torture and certainly it is a popular control-mechanism inside cults.

          Your remarks gave me an opportunity to better understand how it is that good, intelligent people can be made robotic at best and psychotic at worst by an organisation built upon dehumanization and complete control of the individual.

          I thank you for that insight. It was a huge part of the learning curve for me.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            It only takes days for some of the effects to take place. Constant or consistent sleep deprivations is listed as a form of torture on Geneva convention rules and similar. Poor nutrition, a bombardment of stress, overdosing of vitamins, poor or no medical care, serious health conditions brought on due to no dental care, the list goes on. Those who subject themselves to this too long don’t always recover fully. It brings about all sorts of mental disorders and conditions. These are not mentally healthy people.

            • philosofa

              Scientology really is a perfect storm of destruction for those within it. Even the egotistical, status hungry whales must inevitably pay a price far higher than mere money. I still find it hard to understand why the US government still does not act against this North.Korea of cults, despite the “religious cloaking”. I hope and believe that one day they will have to do so.

            • Troy MacGyver SP
        • grundoon

          Looking close up, there is no place on this drawing where anything is wrong.

          Oddly, the style of architecture reminds me of the Flag Building, with the Running Program upstairs.

          http://curitibainenglish.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/mc_escher_art_8.jpg?iact=rc&uact=3&dur=818&page=12&start=157&ndsp=15&ved=0CEEQMyg5MDk4ZA

      • and yet the crooks sell them the notion that they are “thinking for yourself.” how ironic.

        • Anonymous

          It’s a deliberately screwed up mess…no doubt.

      • Mat Pesch

        Very true.

    • Eivol Ekdal

      Do you know the name of the Furniture Mill or address on Grand Central?

      • Eivol Ekdal

        Nevermind…(pic)

        • Troy MacGyver SP

          Looks similar to,”The Hole”.

    • Troy MacGyver SP

      Are they the one’s who still make the mirrored headboards for waterbeds or is that the amish?

  • Eivol Ekdal

    I wonder if Tom Cruise gets to play with Dave’s EQs.

    • Techie

      Yes he does. One of the classic items that Dave likes to put in his “Listening Rooms” is the famous Cello EQ. Costing about $10,000 new these high-falutin’ tone controls are installed within easy reach of the listener so he can “dial in a little atmosphere” or “make the subs put out a little chest” at will. The Guest House behind Hubbard’s house, where TC stays when he is at the Int Base, has a high-end theatre with full surround sound and next door is one of these elaborate “listening rooms”. I know you were making a crude joke EE but I couldn’t resist embellishing it.

  • mirele

    I added the Toucan Partners / Kurt Feshbach information as a comment to the TBT article. Really, this is a miss on the paper’s part.

  • ze moo

    Keep away from the mars or venus implant stations John Joseph. I always found his writings to be sharp, to the point, and full of snark. He must have been a lot of fun with a few beers in him.

    The Desmond lawsuit and it derailment may one reason that there are no east coast lawsuits against NarCONon. I do hope Harris gets a fair hearing this time. His pleading, in my totally untrained legal mind should succeed. I hadn’t noticed that the court did not find a valid contract between the plaintiffs and NarCONon and with no contract, how can you breach it? There are other strange things that I will have to research before I comment.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    Red-X Red-X Red-X

    Slow day at the Bunker.
    Wanna keep the bodies out of the shop?
    Main list:
    https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/taking-down-co-on-craigslist-co-ads-on-craigslist.113779/page-99#post-2469325
    ty ap

  • Eivol Ekdal

    Regarding the vault in Montana?
    Did they (Marc and J) mean Sweeney Ranch, Wyoming?
    I have not heard of a CST vault Montana.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    Leaving the Sea-Org Haiku

    Even the tiny
    Ruby-throated hummingbird
    Flies to Mexico

    • joan nieman

      Beautiful and simplistic Panopea.

  • nottrue

    R.I.P JOHN…..Author of DM’s Treason Assignment………..

    • Troy MacGyver SP

      That’s why I agree w/ Espi. He was still a kool-aid drinkin,homo hating clam. “You are supposed to speak well of the dead,he’s dead good”,Betty Davis on Joan Crawford’s death.

    • “Parishioners” — Some customers actually did believe they were “parishioners.” Interesting.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    I didn’t know John but heard of him through other devotees. While I hadn’t been on lines for years, since I lived in the heart of the beast in Florida, I ran into many veteran scientologists on Flag lines since I knew and met so many over the years. One was Chuck Toftness, whose brother, Bob, was still a techie at ASHO over many decades. Many like Bob and John showed up eventually at ASHO. Most public avoided training like the plague. The ones who did all had that dedicated glare.

    My condolences to John’s family and friends. Plain Old Thetan’s dedication is typical of many of the old time auditors and supervisors. It was their personal passion, compassion and good intentions to help others that kept Hubbard and later Miscavige afloat in cash with repeat customers. So I am not surprised that he continued to the end to help as he believed best.

    I think Denise Brennan said it best and spoke for many of us in one of her posts about corporate shell restructuring:

    “It is not an easy cross to bear when you come to realize that so many have been hurt and are still being hurt by what you helped create while you supported a person devoid of true honor (even if you were not abusive and had the best of intentions at the time). PTSD and other ailments truly suck.

    At the very least we can simply tell the truth now. And, if it is in our hearts and it is possible, we can do something about it if only by sharing what we know with writers, with government agencies and/or with others who may be helped out of the darkness of organized scientology or helped from falling prey to their lies and greed in the first place.

    I believe that every time a piece of truth is told (no matter what “side” you are on) it can only help.”

    https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/diskeeper-class-action-lawsuit.64973/

    • philosofa

      Bravo, THDNE.

  • rom661

    Wonder what gear he has…. Speakers could be Wilson, Focal, Magico, any number of things. Table sounds like a Basis. There would be a conundrum…. You can sell an ultra high end system but the customer is Miscavige. Hmmm. There’s some really expensive stuff that isn’t all that good. Do try to steer clear of it though.

    • Techie

      IRS speakers are a fave, especially the 6 foot tall mid electrostatic units. Can’t have a woofer without having 6 or 8 12″ drivers to move that air… For the little systems it is David Manley tube amps in several flavors, never less than 6 EL84 tubes per channel, the bigger systems are all Bryston amps and speakers. By bigger I mean the actual mixing studios etc. He has a technician that does all the research and setup for him, all he has to do is randomly complain about things and it all gets worked out for him. I think the air bearing isolated turntable was a Goldmund, not sure about that. Of course that was all 10 years ago when I was there, by now it is probably all upgraded. They tried to set up some Wilsons once but there are so many adjustments you can make that they could never agree on what was right and gave up on them. Any speaker he uses has to have the fiberglass taken out of it, replaced by soft dacron. And of course the wires are all replaced with Monster wire of various types. All this is plenty of work for the Technicians with no real result that you can actually hear. It is a sad note that he is obsessed about the fiberglass because “Ron said” it was bad, but doesn’t worry about the asbestos at the Freewinds, which is far worse.

      • rom661

        That’s interesting. Thanks. Kind of funny. The IRS speakers have been gone a long, long time. Harmon bought the company and dumbed it down. Luke Manley, who bought the company from his dad many years ago, is a friend. He told me years ago they had done some work for Scientology and decided they were nuts. Never made the connection. Bryston is somewhat high end, but certainly not esoteric at all. The Goldmund table would have qualified. I was a Wilson dealer for years. They are not casual to set up which is why the dealer is supposed to do it. But he would be a wog….. I don’t know anyone in high end who considers Monster a serious cable outside of their first class marketing department. We have 1M interconnect cables for 10K a pair. All in all it sounds like the system of a guy who knows a little, wants the biggest and best but doesn’t know what it is and is, ummm, really short? Compensation maybe. Need those big woofers and lots of them. Again, funny. Thanks for sharing.

        • rom661

          It just hit me. David Wilson is a devout Mormon in Provo, UT. Makes me smile just thinking of his speakers being there…..

        • Missionary Kid

          “All in all it sounds like the system of a guy who knows a little, wants the biggest and best but doesn’t know what it is…” That all reminds me of the audio sales scene in Ruthless People.

          • rom661

            That was a classic. Hopefully not representative of what I’ve done for a living the last couple of decades, but hysterical.

            • Missionary Kid

              It certainly was a classic, and it gave a lot of insight into the salesman’s character played by Judge Reinhold. According to IMDB, he’s still working in films, but in more minor roles.

      • Eivol Ekdal

        Don’t those big electrostatic speakers use many watts in standby and need to be left on?

        • Techie

          Never had that problem, our biggest issue was the musicians cranking them up too high and burning out the ribbon. A little Radio Shack liquid solder fixes that.

    • Mark

      If he’s so obscenely rich, why doesn’t he just pay his favourite musicians to perform live? But then again, Shortarse is the ‘audio-expert’ who so loudly insisted that Sluggard’s lectures shouldn’t be transferred to CD, because “the sound-quality of cassettes was so superior”.

      • Panopea Abrupta

        Freddy Mercury is dead, Mark.

      • Troy MacGyver SP

        Or just drag some people out of the RPF to entertain him with a Broadway rendition of,Battlefield earth.

      • rom661

        Apparently he was/is a tube and analog guy. I am, too. Technically cassette is superior in some regards to CD. The ways in which it is inferior are greater, of course. However there is no sampling or lossiness. I prefer my analog on LP. I rip LP’s to digital at 8800kbps. CD is nativel 1411kbps. MP3 averages about 256kbps. Most is less, some slightly more. Sorry, I’m a geek.

  • Mooser

    You can use an e-meter to detect diabetes, you know. Look for the rock-candy slam.

    • And there are a lot of Scientologist woo-peddlers that offer to cure diabetes too.

      • Troy MacGyver SP

        A purified water and niacin enema. I can see the ads now.Love how they all try to screw each other out of money.

        • ze moo

          There is only so much room in the quack cures area. The vitamin folks keep trying to make some extract the next big thing, but all ‘big things’ are soon proven to be useless, ineffective or just bullshit. The FDA really should take a good look at the verbal health claims that clams make. That would get them in lots of trouble, though be hard to prove. And of course anyone caught making health claims would be thrown under the bus.

          • Example: Real Health Products, 620 N. Brand Blvd., Suite 201 (N. Brand is always a Scn warning.) Run by David Pulcifer, previously by Robert Held. They’re being a little more careful than some because they don’t mention the D-word or cure in print, and have the Quack Miranda at the bottom of the page. Obviously they stand behind the product… Very far behind the product.

            http://www.realhealthproducts.com/glucosesupport/

            • Missionary Kid

              I Googled that, and found it is in Glendale, CA.

  • Mark

    Listening to Marc’s stomach-churning memories left me wondering if Shortarse hasn’t missed yet another money-making scam (thank goodness I prefer tortillas; refresh):

    • J. Swift

      Sea Org brand Rancid Tacos: For those days when there is nothing else to eat!

    • Bee-yu-tee-ful!

    • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

      Mark, we in RTC find ouselves scolding you too often these days. Watch it! We now must object to this characterization of Sea Org food. Sure, it may be cheap slop, and yes sometimes it is rancid, but there are no GMO foods used. We in RTC take a win on this.

      • Mark

        Beware, RTC! Such empty threats of rabid Squirrel Busting only serve to imperil your sole source of supply for Gumbo Butter®©, to which I hold exclusive worldwide rights. Where would you be then, with nothing left but superannuated chicken-fat to shmear on your Oiliness Table, eh?

    • i-Betty

      Superb!

  • Jgg2012

    Jeff Harris’ response: he is basically saying that complaints are liberally construed, can have separate or inconsistent claims, only need enough specificity to apprise defendant of the nature of the claim, etc. I thought he had done this. Ryan Hamilton, who described the fraudulent scheme in detail, was criticized for writing a complaint that was too long and detailed. The district court said there was no evidence that some parties were agents of others. Well, I thought that wasn’t the point: it’s all one scheme with separate corporate shells, and whether you call them agents is irrelevant. Harris has a good chance of getting at least part of the decision reversed, perhaps with leave to amend.

  • KNMF

    Miscavige is destined for great suffering.

    • Jgg2012

      It’s not his fault. He read all the material that was unintelligible because of all of those semicolons. Great cognitive dissonance.

    • philosofa

      If I was Karma I would decree that he suffers not one iota more, or less, than the cult’s victims have. That would be the just and ethical thing to do and he’s such an ethical and just Big Being, after all.

  • Jgg2012

    Video at 42:00: good point, there is no electricity after an apocalypse. In addition, how are subsequent generations of neo-humans going to understand English? They won’t know English, just we don’t know Etruscan.

    • Jimmy3

      There could be electricity after an apocalypse. I haven’t listened to the podcast yet, though, so I don’t know what the context is.

      • D.Y.G.

        They made the point that Scientology is electricity-based, unlike any other religions, and nobody seems to think things through. If there was nuclear catastrophe, as planned with Co$’s titanium-plate vaults, then there won’t be any electricity. Why didn’t anyone from the church come up with a solar powered e-meter?

        • Jimmy3

          Oh, thank you. But solar-powered e-meters would never work, because sunlight kills Scientologists, right? Or am I thinking of something else?

          • philosofa

            Sunlight kills vampires, and some germs. But I can see why you might easily confuse them.

        • aegerprimo

          I asked this question a long time ago when being regged for the project. I think the reg called me a CICS.

          • Troy MacGyver SP

            What is that mean,Aegerprimo?

  • RIP POT, if you catch up to Ron on Target 2, kick him in his fat nuts for me, please.

  • I’m really going to miss this guy and his observations over at Possibly Helpful Advice. I’ve got mixed feelings about the independents but John was definitely one of the good ones with a great sense of humor.

  • Seen on Twitter this morning, the Pam Bondi ties to organized crime getting Tweeted. (Photo)

  • This is Operating Thetan however: My Fun Day at the Church of Scientology — blog entry covering a visit to the Scientology crime syndicate’s Ottawa business office.

    “…then I remembered the point was to look like a potential cultist…” LOL.

  • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

    That media like you remember and share the news of the passings of the free speaking Scientologists and ex Scientologists, and Scientology observers and critics is appreciated.

    The ex official Scientology community is larger and more humane and more virtuous than official Scientology.

    The outside world is just better than the inside world of official Scientology, you prove that!

    Reminds me of how incredible John Sweeney’s tribute to Shawn Lonsdale also was.

    Thankyou media people for remembering!

  • nottrue

    A high crime of scientology………

    • Jimmy3

      Did she make a clean getaway?

      • stillgrace2

        She got caught, but her record was wiped clean.

        • Panopea Abrupta

          Delighted there’s no stain on her reputation.

          • Troy MacGyver SP

            Someone wrote out a,KR. She hasn’t been seen since. All traces of her have been wiped clean. I smell deep,dark trouble!

        • Jimmy3

          Oh, good, so at least she won’t have to worry about that following her around for the rest of her life. I’d hate to have something like stuck to my heel.

      • There was a paper-trail.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    This is a Public Service Announcement.
    Will the person who lost 3 lemurs please proceed immediately to the Lost and Found department?

    That is to be found on the Sub-Basement level (follow signs for The Hole), next to our Rancid Taco counter.
    It is imperative that you take the stairs as the pedestrian Bridge goes nowhere and all the lifts are currently in use by our Chairbully.
    In any case, the lifts are limited in their weight capacity.
    The combined weight of the lemurs is approximately 6 ounces.

  • Pierrot
    • Eileen

      Fresh clam sauce on July 4th weekend. Yum.

    • Pierrot

      Continue visiting Boston above, new blues within the 30 minutes, still loading!

      • Observer

        He is spamming the crap out of CL

        • Jimmy3

          Shouldn’t he be banned for that? It’s all the same ad.

          • Baby

            That should be against CL Rules.. Sickening.. !

            and flagged

            • aegerprimo

              It IS against CL rules, but somehow they keep on doing it. Some of the other RED Xers at WWP have contacted CL (I have given them screenshots) and it’s still occurring. We can only inform CL and flag.

            • Troy MacGyver SP

              I have and only got one automated response.Sent in several complaints!

        • Troy MacGyver SP

          We got most of them down!

    • Observer

      From the second Boston link. What do you think–indie or disingenuous Scilon? *refresh*

      • Jimmy3

        Possible vampire IMO

      • Pierrot

        Indies, not churchies

        • Observer

          That’s what I thought so I didn’t flag it.

          • Jimmy3

            That’s okay, just don’t invite him into your home for auditing.

            • Observer

              There will be no auditing in the Observer household.

      • aegerprimo

        I think this is a Church ad. Reason is this ad which has same title but references to the website www DOT dianetics DOT org

        http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/grp/4554332134.html

        • aegerprimo

          Screenshot of ad (refresh)….

          • Troy MacGyver SP

            No,it is a mission. Just a stupid ad. I just got off the phone doing some detective work. They,once again don’t know who is running what ad. But they sure get excited and equally confused when someone actually responds. Flag it!

            • aegerprimo

              I did flag it because of the link to www DOT dianetics DOT com, but felt this ad was similar to the one Observer is talking about above. She felt the ad she provides a screenshot to is an Indie ad. Most of us choose to leave the indie sciloons alone.

    • aegerprimo

      Hot list of links to ads that are less than 12 hours old. The more recent the ad has been posted, the easier they are to takedown with flagging.

      https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/taking-down-co-on-craigslist-co-ads-on-craigslist.113779/page-99#post-2469502

      • Troy MacGyver SP

        Still need some help! LA Ad,”Come in for vocational checking” WTF?

        • aegerprimo

          Was this in the “hot list” I compiled?

          I think that title would’ve caught my attention because some of the ads trawled get mixed in with ads to do CNA nurse training or other such vocational type classes. Accidents happen. I have been flagging the ads for months and months now, and the content of the Co$ ads have a certain style that I recognize, even if the titles are odd to the usual Co$ come-on.

          • Troy MacGyver SP

            No it was a clam ad.”You might have talents you don’t recognize.” Aimed at actors.

    • NOLAGirl

      Sunday Sermon, 1 hour old in Minneapolis.

  • J. Swift

    I posted an essay on the Church of Scientology’s 285% profit margin on Mark VII and Quantum e-meters. The data the Church gave the IRS tracks perfectly with Marc Headley’s stated manufacturing price of ~$400 on meters. Post: http://scientologymoneyproject.com/2014/07/04/church-of-scientology-285-profit-margin-on-e-meters/

    http://scientologymoneyproject.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/meter-pricing-1.png?w=620&h=747

    • grundoon

      “Net profit retained by bookstores” all goes uplines too, doesn’t it?

  • Jimmy3

    Sorry, I know this is from 2008 and won’t really have any new information for most readers here, but I just came across this neat little timeline, so it’s new to me. Neat little timelines are neat.
    From http://io9.com/363755/the-science-vs-scientology-timeline

    • D.Y.G.

      “The thing is that, even if I believed the Scientologists, whenever I read any of this shit, I get the sense that Thetans are huge pussies and I hate them and want them to lose.”

      • Observer

        All thetans are theetie-weetie. We’d have been confronted and shattered long ago if they weren’t.

      • TDA1541A

        Thetans must return to their home planets

    • New to me. Thanks.

  • Baby

    **** Important ****

    Jeremy Powers … posted the last post yesterday and I do not know if you guys saw it.. I don’t think you did because there wasn’t any upvotes.. or comments. Baby

    • Observer

      Thanks for the heads up!

    • outraged
    • Ruby

      Thank you, Baby.

    • Unex Skcus

      Thanks!

    • Troy MacGyver SP

      So nice to see him in the Bunker so quickly.

      • Baby

        I was absolutely thrilled to see him post Troy..

        I always go to an old post before I read a new post..just so I don’t miss a comment. I saw his and almost fainted.. Of course I had to share it with all of you. It was just to wonderful not to comment on and upvote… xo

        • DodoTheLaser

          Thank you, Baby.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Thanks for letting us know. I dropped by to say hello and welcome him.

  • outraged

    gggggggggggggoooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllllllll

    (maybe if I say it will happen)

    • stillgrace2

      As long as we’re postulating: Wow, three grand slams in one game! Amazing! Five double plays and two triple plays! San Francisco Giants! What a team!
      SF @ San Diego 4 pm PDT

      • Jimmy3

        Just for the hell of it, I looked this up. The Yankees hit three grand slams in one game against the A’s on August 25, 2011. The Twins turned two triple plays in one game against the Red Sox on July 17th, 1990. Both of these feats have only ever happened once. The record for double plays in a game is 7, and it has occurred 4 times. On September 2nd, 2008, the Seattle Mariners turned a triple play without the ball ever making contact with the bat. The batter was called out on strike 3, the runner on first was thrown out trying to steal second, and the runner on third was thrown out trying to steal home.

        This has been Useless Facts of the Day. Feel free to forget them immediately.

        • stillgrace2

          Thank you! I love these kind of statistics. Mariners are big on triple plays.
          Here’s my favorite:
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVPcJ9cpggQ

          • Jimmy3

            Haha, what was that guy thinking? He ran way into right field and then it looks like he went all the way back to first before deciding to run to second. That is some bad base running, but not quite as bad as this:

            http://youtu.be/spx9ZeSYVTU

            • D.Y.G.

              Your video then led to this (and I laughed so hard) =

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UywRu8QPXA

            • Jimmy3

              Oh wow. Not only does no one on his team see that hit, none of them seem to notice or care that their teammate is suddenly lying on the ground.

    • Jimmy3

      I love this Costa Rican team. The Dutch put up 5 on Spain and can’t score on tiny Costa Rica. Pulling for them now.

      • outraged

        :-{
        The ticos controlled the ball the whole game, but on the wrong side of the field!
        I really really really really hate when it comes down to penalty kicks. And in the World Cup. ugh.

        they were awesome, and no one can ever take that away. PUra Vida!!

  • Graham

    Re Sunday Services. I’ve just checked out whether the London Org still has them. According to their web-site it does, but it would seem that you have to reserve a place in advance. One way to collect contact details I suppose, and a way to be fore-warned so the Truman Show can spring into action and put on a show.

    http://www.scientology-london.org/events/sunday-service/confirm.html?day=20140706

    • Jimmy3

      How do “Sunday Services” in Scientology actually work? I imagine everybody sits down, they pass around the collection plate, then everybody gets up and leaves.

      • Graham

        As the sole purpose is to put on a show for the wogs I’m guessing they’ll hide the collection plate, and forego the guards on the exit doors.

      • nottrue

        They worship celebrities…….

      • flyonthewall

        They give each other crude frontal lobotomies. I do you then you do me!

        • 1subgenius

          There’s a lot of truth there.
          They also perform do-it-yourself style.
          So many jokes there, too.

          “What’s a 68?”
          “You do me, and I’ll owe you one.”

          I go to that new do-it-yourself massage parlor.
          It costs more, but its perfect!

      • 1subgenius

        Well, there’s something to be said for the efficiency of that.
        Mime is money. Let’s go!

      • DodoTheLaser

        No. What you described is IAS event lite. Sunday Service is a generic church sermon wannabe.
        I delivered those. Even on Thursdays. Especially before 2pm.

        • DodoTheLaser

          Fun fact – I was a “minister” for Marc’s Mom Trudy and her current husband TJ.
          That had to be the fastest and least romantic wedding ceremony ever. Them Thursdays.

    • Mark

      I’ve heard their “chapel” is in the basement and was added to the London org’s facilities as something of an afterthought: no natural light and an oppressively low ceiling, having formerly been a store-room for Bibles (the building was previously the British & Foreign Bible Society’s HQ). Still, if anyone’s weird enough to want to sit in a dank cellar with a crowd of culties listening to a load of Tublard’s platitutinous piffle, it’s still a free country…

      • Sejanus

        Wow you almost made it sound better than the night I have planned…almost…lol

  • Mrs. V.

    So sad about John. I enjoyed reading his posts.

  • TDA1541A

    Costa Rica ugh

    • Robert Eckert

      What’s your beef with Costa Rica?

      • 1subgenius

        That’s weird.
        I could drink all the liquor down in Costa Rica, ain’t nobody’s business if I do.
        (The only Costa Rica line I know.)

        Dennis Coffey at Northern Lights Tuesdays, and at Motor City Wine Fridays…..both for free.
        70+ cat shreds like no one. A living legend. So far.
        And MCW on Wednesdays, a great jam. “Skeetos Funhouse” Always surprise guests.

        • Robert Eckert

          Apparently TDA is responding to Costa Rica’s performance in the World Cup

          • Jimmy3

            Cat Daddy is Dutch, and Costa Rica was playing the Netherlands. I assume CD was upset or nervous that the match was so close, as the Dutch were heavy favorites but needed a shootout to win in the end. It was probably way too close for comfort for Dutch fans.

            • Captain Howdy

              But his boys won and there’ll be a hot time in the ole canal tonight!

            • DodoTheLaser

              I never cared about watching sports.
              I really want to know what’s the appeal?
              What am I missing out on?

            • Captain Howdy

              It’s the Colosseum without all the bloodshed, It’s war without the property loss, it’s the Two Minute Hate. Like religion, it’s a method of controlling the lumpen masses.

              I like watching some sports, but the fans I could do without.

            • Jimmy3

              Looks like Cat Daddy got banned again. And Troy MacGyver, too. Didn’t see that coming.

            • Captain Howdy

              Troy, like his bro, has many more where that came from.

            • Eivol Ekdal

              Living in the UK, I always miss the late night shenanigans. I wake up to deleted posts and have to piece together what happened.
              TDA was better but I still did not like the embedded images directly from Co$ sites. When he does that the webmasters can ‘see’ IP addresses of people who load that pic and also can see the ‘referrer’ as Tony’s blog. You might as well let Co$ put tracking code right on Tony’s site. I would prefer people to download the image from it’s source and then upload it with their comment. Pics uploaded to comments are actually hosted by Disqus so I do not think this presents a risk to Tony and he still has the ability to delete them if needed.

            • DodoTheLaser

              I wonder why.

            • Captain Howdy

              Troy posted a video earlier about guys fucking donkeys and some other frothing at the mouth obscenity laden comments that were worse than usual. CD made the mistake of admitting he was CD.

            • DodoTheLaser

              Ah, I see.

            • Jimmy3

              Fortunately, I missed that video. But I did see Troy say something really stupid and offensive about Plain Old Thetan earlier. And I like Calm Cat Daddy. I will miss him.

            • DodoTheLaser

              I didn’t mind CD either, unless he had some socks that smelled bad.

            • Captain Howdy

              He wasn’t the sock master like damOT and his brother Troy. Those guys are running at least a dozen different accounts between them. Cat Daddy just gets too tipsy or excited and starts posting everything but the kitchen sink.

            • DodoTheLaser

              I wish people weren’t so into socks. I mean Fred and Niels seem pretty cool normally.
              Do socks corrupt people?

            • Captain Howdy

              I thought his brothers name was Dave? From what I know they’ve been doing this going back to ARS days and beyond. I think they have this mindset that they’re the real deal and the rest of us are rookies and they’re willing to win by any means. Plus, they’re obviously a few bricks short of a load, but that doesn’t necessarily make them bad guys.

              Goodnight y’all.

            • DodoTheLaser

              Interesting. Good night.

            • Baby

              Night sweetie..

            • grundoon

              I’ve seen damOT’s bro pop up here once in awhile. I don’t think Troy is him. Your sixth sense is often right about such things, but …? … Troy has a nephew in the Chruch, or so he said, iirc.

            • Captain Howdy

              I avoided commenting earlier today because this obviously isn’t J&D material, ya know? I may be a punk but I still have some sense of decorum..most of the time.

            • Jimmy3

              I hear that. But generally I think it’s okay to joke as long as it’s not disrespectful. Or, you know, as long as it doesn’t involve guys banging donkeys.

            • DodoTheLaser

              I wonder how Espi feels about the subject after reading Tony’s post.

            • Baby

              Grosse.. Troy WTF were you thinking.. OMG.. and CD.. Shit you were behaving. I saw you admitting that you were back.. Damn. I was enjoying you. I knew who you were, but thought you were laying low. sigh.. ; /

              I will miss you both. xox Baby

            • Not again!

            • DodoTheLaser

              I appreciate you answering, Cap. It helps me to understand.

  • I figured out the base’s taco shell contamination problem [sic]

    http://www.blogcdn.com/www.mandatory.com/media/2013/06/tacolick.png

  • DodoTheLaser

    Looks like there is gonna be a nice cookout in Texas on July 31.

  • DodoTheLaser

    Great interview with Marc. I highly recommend.

  • media_lush
    • Captain Howdy
    • Narapoid

      THAT is the baddest squirrel on Teegeeak!

    • aegerprimo

      Personally, I prefer the Honey Badger.
      …..

    • MaxSpaceman

      Yo Lush- 07:30 hours Eastern Daylight Time. Your Website is showing nada here in USA. I also clicked on July archive and got another blank screen. Some tech problems I imagine, right now, eh?

      • media_lush

        had me worried for awhile there… guess it was just a blogger clean-up or something

        • MaxSpaceman

          yeah, it was really weird. got me thinking the $cilons were hacking your site.

  • Panopea Abrupta
  • woodrose

    Terrific interview with Marc Headley. As a successful businessman, he sees and laughs at the horrific inefficiencies of Scilon admin ‘tech,’ contrasting the year it takes to build a new hotel in the real world versus 5 years just to create the plans for the SP building and Ideal Orgs.

    J.Swift does seem a bit confused as to the location of the Scilon vaults. The northern California one is in Petrolia, not Capitola.

    RIP John Joseph. I honor his service to the truth evidenced by his willingness to help Tony expose the reality of the scientology organization.

  • aegerprimo

    I love how Marc puts things in perspective at the end of the radio interview with Jeff.

    The Empire State Building took less than 2 years to build – DURING THE GREAT DEPRESSION!

    The Co$ Super Powerz Building in Clearwater, took 5 years just to approve the design… total of 20+ years to complete the building. Started in 1990, and finished it last year, 2013 – 23 years total to build.

    • Troy MacGyver SP

      But think how much extra cash the $cion’s made selling the same cross and,”door knob”,over and over. Same sort of fraud that ended the PTL club.

      • aegerprimo

        Yeah, I think he covered the cost of the Empire State Building vs Super Powerz Bld in the interview as well. I spaced out at that point.

        It would be interesting to see a John P. Capitalist analysis about cost… but what’s the point? WE KNOW all fundraisers for the Super Powerz building was lies, hence the Garcia case
        http://tonyortega.org/2013/11/15/judge-james-whittemore-reins-in-the-garcia-v-scientology-case/

        • Troy MacGyver SP

          I want to have empathy for, The Garcia’s but at some point one would think you’d be wise to the same scam over and over. Like a drug addicted child you’d have to see you are just encouraging their behavior.I hope they are at least awarded the big cross to hang in their warehouse.

  • Locale

    This Scientologist, anti-scientologist, Bunkerite will be remembered.

  • DodoTheLaser

    Met someone today I used to be on staff with a few years ago. He knew that my handle is Dodo here.
    Tony how many daily visitors The Underground Bunker gets? Because it’s getting crowded in here.

    • Elar Aitch

      A couple of days ago Mike said he gets 8000-10000 visits a day a about 2.5 pages per visit and is site is slightly lower in the Alexa rankings than here.

      http://www.mikerindersblog.org/more-ias-bs/

      • DodoTheLaser

        That explains it. Thanks.

    • aquaclara

      You’re famous, Dodo!

  • DodoTheLaser

    Legendary scientology seminar about 12 major SP’s on this planet.
    It took place in Kazakhstan recently. Refresh.

  • aurora50

    Headley and Sweeney take a road-trip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtLuQ01rpwk

    • DodoTheLaser

      As mentioned in the interview above. Thanks, Aurora.

      “Can we get a tour?” Hahaha!

  • Pierrot

    *** RED X +–+ RED X +–+RED X +–+ RED X ***

    Before switching off last night there were 15 2,500 years
    books & 19 co$ & helping others, in Boston
    This morning there is only the HVAC pipes for sale left & an indie’s ad.
    What a good way to start the day! :-)).

    From what I read Tony Chen in Sacramento is upping his game,
    Follow the links below from Panopea and Aegerprimo

    If you have time to spare yesterdays list and updates are here

    https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/taking-down-co-on-craigslist-co-ads-on-craigslist.113779/page-99#post-2469325

    Celebration & congratulations, ty Hamtaro

  • Narapoid

    … A test pic

    • Eivol Ekdal

      It works.

      • Narapoid

        Thanks, but I gotta get the script in proportion…. Don’t know on memegenerator how.

  • Narapoid

    Here’s a different one preview Sunday funnies pic

    • Baby

      Hahaha Perfect Narapoid! Great job sweetie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! + 26 !!!!!

    • aquaclara

      This is lol perfect.

  • DodoTheLaser
    • Baby

      Bunker Strong Dodo…xo

  • Pierrot

    *** RED X +–+ RED X +–+RED X +–+ RED X *** Sunday the 6th of July

    WHOOOOAAA WHOOOOAAA again for
    the win in Boston, 36 ads reduced to 1 for VHAC & 1 for indie, 1 for private sale.

    While we wait for the Sunday’s funnies, today’s list is here for your attention:

    https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/taking-down-co-on-craigslist-co-ads-on-craigslist.113779/page-99#post-2469567

    FREELOADER Debt is ILLEGAL and CAN’T BE ENFORCED.
    DON’T route out, BLOW, Get HELP, get OUT. CALL 1-866-XSEAORG

    Celebration and congratulation to us all. Way to go team RED X

  • Pepper

    I’ll miss hearing your voice POT. Thank you and Peace!

  • Bury_The_Nuts

    I is sad to hear about POT!!!
    🙁

  • Caliwog

    I think we’re missing a very obvious point here. Why was John’s body in such bad shape? Most likely because he followed L. Ron Hubbard’s advice to use Scientology auditing instead of proper medical care and medications. This is one of the most often overlooked reasons why Scientology is so dangerous. Another one killed by LRH!

  • Scott Gordon

    I want to express my deepest appreciation for John (“Plain Old Thetan” – to me) for guiding me through my desperate attempt to solo audit (while still “under the radar” – and in a foreign country – Costa Rica – with no
    money for an auditor).

    Because of his generous guidance, I became far less desperate, and able use the workable elements of “the tech” so well, that I reached an ability to walk into my local Mission, where I had been under attack on staff,
    and radiate genuinely cheerful communication to anyone there, regardless of their disposition towards me poisoned to whatever degree by “third party” (slander).

    John was generous and conscientious in offering me help, without regard for the Scio tech “rules” that would have stopped it. John simply applied the SERVICE policy letter and helped me “do it myself.”

    He would have wanted me to tell you – because he loved this accomplishment – that he encouraged me to spot
    and identify suppressive persons “in the org” (quite forbidden to do in the church) and this dramatically released me from the depressing influence of David Miscavige (and his Flag-trained bots at the Mission).

    I thank John for his dedication, service and help, and wish him well on his journey.