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The Garcias answer Scientology’s ‘International Justice Chief’ with an affidavit by Mike Rinder

Mike_RinderLast time we checked in on the federal fraud lawsuit brought by Luis and Rocio Garcia against the Church of Scientology, we told you about a rare appearance by the church’s “International Justice Chief,” Mike Ellis.

We explained that the IJC is something of a notorious figure in Scientology because he’s an excommunicated member’s only “terminal” for communicating with the church. And so he handles the requests of kicked-out members as they complain about getting money back that they left on account.

Ellis submitted a declaration claiming that Scientology’s internal justice procedures are legitimate, and that the internal arbitration process it wants the Garcias to undergo (in lieu of the lawsuit) are governed by well-defined rules.

We noted that Ellis’s account seemed weak, and now, a few days later, the Garcias have answered Ellis’s declaration with an affidavit by former church executive Mike Rinder (pictured).

In the document, Rinder says he knows that the arbitration system mentioned in Scientology’s enrollment contracts was a sham because he wrote the contracts. As a Scientology executive overseeing legal affairs, he would have known if the arbitration rules had ever actually been used. But they weren’t, because they were a fiction.

“It simply was not the intent of the Church that the ‘arbitration’ process amount to anything beyond a statement on paper,” Rinder writes.

He goes into more detail, and by the end of it, there’s really nothing left of Ellis’s statements.

Now, it’s up to Judge James D. Whittemore. He’ll decide on Scientology’s insistence that any grievance of the Garcias is an internal, church matter, and to allow the lawsuit to continue would be a violation of Scientology’s rights to religious expression. If he sides with the Garcias, he may make some interesting pronouncements about Scientology’s ‘justice’ rules while he finds that Scientology can be sued for fraudulent behavior without trampling its religious rights. It’s going to be a fascinating decision, and we expect that it will come pretty soon.

Here’s Rinder’s affidavit…

 

Garcia v. Scientology: Mike Rinder Affidavit

 
——————–

Karen de la Carriere on Scientology snooping

Karen helps us understand how much a member of Scientology is subject to the church’s information control — and to what lengths the organization will go to find damaging information about a person.

 

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on October 16, 2014 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS (We read Scientology’s founding text) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25

UP THE BRIDGE (Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48

GETTING OUR ETHICS IN (Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14

SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING (Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49

PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer
The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

 

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  • AmoVolare

    Got you Dodo!
    Ciao

  • Observer

    More like International INjustice Chief, amirite?

    *refresh*

    • Observer

      Whoa, I don’t know what happened to that one. Trying again.

      • Missionary Kid

        Both showed up.

        • Observer

          Yeah, but the first one looks really low-res. on my phone, anyway.

          • NOLAGirl

            Looks great on my computer screen.

          • Love your work, as always. Just wondering . . . why have you changed it from Unprincipled Pedagogue to Principled Pedagogue?

            • Observer

              The original version I did said “principled” in a purely sarcastic sense. I changed it because several people didn’t pick up on the sarcasm. The revised version is the one I posted first, but it looked so terrible on my phone that I reposted. I’m working, so my resources are limited, and the original version was the only high-res copy I had on my phone.

            • Anonymous

              Poe’s “Principle” in action again.

              It is amazing how often clever sarcasm is misidentified as serious declaration…and vice versa.

      • SP Wannabe

        On my phone, too, but the 2nd one is clear as a bell. Tip for other luddites viewing on small screens: open the pic in a new tab, then zoom in as neccessary to read.

        Thanks, Obs, for everything. You bring so much to the Bunker!

  • FromPolandWithLove

    I think, that there are some problems with affidavit, I see only message :
    You are not allowed to view this document.
    Sorry, we can’t display this document.”

    • NOLAGirl

      Click on the link friend, it will take you to Tony’s Scribd page.

      • FromPolandWithLove

        Thank You, everything is ok now:)

    • Robert Eckert

      The International Scribd Chief is your only terminal for communication.

      • 🙂 Now that made me bray laughter like a jackass. 🙂

  • Elar Aitch

    Softly, softly catchee monkey

    • Davescomm

      If the suit alleges fraud, then that is up to courts. The law of the land is senior to the laws of any and all churches.

  • NOLAGirl

    Brava Mike. I hope the Judge sees things the Garcia’s way. *fingers crossed*

    • Davescomm

      He can’t see it any other way, imo. He cannot assign the resolution of a legal matter to a church. E.g. You cannot smoke pot or do peyote because that is ordered by your religious beliefs. (Well, maybe now, depending on which State you live in, you can, but not because of any church.)

      • NOLAGirl

        Yes Davescomm, you’re correct. But these are the courts of the U.S. and we have seen them bend over for Co$ before so I’m cautiously excited about this case. Judge Whittemore has seen bigger cases than this and seems to have a firm grasp on the law and how it applies, so I’m hoping he has no other choice than to do what you said, but again, I’m cautious.

        • Davescomm

          Some earlier cases have failed (such as the Headley case) because they brought religion into play. I agree that courts do sometimes get confused, and we’ve seen some instances of that as regards the Co$. The Garcia case, as I make it, is strictly a civil case, which is the correct approach, imo. I share your hopes that Judge Whittimore tosses the Co$ upside down.

          • NOLAGirl

            If he does, may it open the lawsuit floodgate.

        • They have. But courts in the US have found against religious Peyote use

          http://www.lectlaw.com/files/drg28.htm

          • NOLAGirl

            Guess I should throw out my stash then. 😀

  • flexible

    Well that seems pretty obvious.

  • L. C. Spencer

    “Rinder says he knows that the arbitration system mentioned in Scientology’s enrollment contracts was a sham because he wrote the contracts. ”

    Microphone dropped.

    • “Umm, [checks list of excuses], but he left several years ago, and we changed everything in the organization the moment that he was gone.”

      • Just Dee

        and he is just and unemployed blogger on the fringes…..

        • “I know every inch of Mike Rinder and .. oh wait, wrong card…”

          • Just Dee

            You owe me a new computer screen! lol Good one!

          • Party Hull!

            Fantastic. Bravo.

      • Stacy

        Despite the fact that the words all look and read the same. It’s different. Really.

  • Sid

    Another great video from Karen.

    If you pay for auditing and then get taken into session for a sec check and the auditor says “I’m not auditing you” it’s amazing that you still have to pay $500 per hour or thereabouts. If they aren’t auditing you and you paid for auditing then you shouldn’t have to pay.

    Scientology, mastering the art of self righteousness and distributing guilt to one and all.

  • “If he sides with the Garcias, […] he finds that Scientology can be sued for fraudulent behavior without trampling its religious rights”

    That was just not a problem in France. Not that the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology didn’t try it on, with one lawyer feeling that pointing out the “church” over the door was enough to get the Co$ off any and all complaints about the goods for sale and the sales methods. It wasn’t.

    http://infinitecomplacency.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-paris-trial-coverage-2009-2013.html

    • They should have tried that excuse note from Cardinal Richelieu–It worked for the Musketeers.

      “By my order and for the good of the state, the bearer has done what has been done.”

      • Barbara Angel

        McSlappy would counter with a signed scroll saying, “In the name of the King” or self declared pope we are a ‘religion’ with soupa powers and voodoo dolls, so don’t mess with us or no bowling trophies for you. So there.

    • 1subgenius

      Rest assured this judge is no dummy:

      “In 2001 the case of Gerald and Betty Payne, the Greater Ministries International Church. Jurors convicted the Paynes and three others on multiple counts of conspiracy, fraud and money laundering.

      But Whittemore said Gerald Payne is a danger to the community who would commit more fraud and take more money if free. He blistered the defendant for using “the word of God to perpetuate a fraud.”

      http://liberalcommonsense.blogspot.com/2005/03/judge-james-whittemore.html

  • Truthiwant

    Phew! Just a picture of Rinder today. No sagging boobs.

    • Espiando

      Mike restricts the boobs to the comments section of his blog.

      • FromPolandWithLove

        And that’s the way it should be done;)

  • Just Dee

    Out of the “5,000” cases this Internal Chief Justice hears, there was not 1 piece of proof of the outcome of any of these fictional cases. I am going to get my hopes up a little, scientology has to lose this part of the case. They submitted absolutely NO evidence to the contrary, and the Judge did request it.

  • The “Church” of Scientology is set up to be an Intelligence Operation.
    Of course the IRS gave them TAX exemption so they can luxuriate in playing Intelligence. To hell with *Religion* !
    Every
    session is recorded. Even sales cycles on high value wealthy people is recorded
    where other “Sea Org” members in other rooms monitor what is being said.
    The
    “buttons” or reactions you have voiced are played on by being harvested out of
    confessional folders and fed to the registrars (sales people)
    At Office of
    Special Affairs , the 10th and 11th floor of 6331 Hollywood Boulevard, some 100
    Sea Org members safeguard and firewall Scientology’s dirty deeds with Lawyers,
    Private Investigators and a host of other employees.
    Every word a Bunkerite posts is recorded and cross filed. If you use that same name and post elsewhere, that is also harvested and collected in your file of your Bunker postings. Your style and spelling and way or writing is studied so that even if you post another name, you are identified.
    Also, anything at all that you say is filed and cross filed to identify you even if you use an anonymous name.
    Examples:
    Names of Orgs you were in, services you have done, other Scientologists you post about, a complete data collection is done and almost every anonymous posted is eventually identified.
    Remember the list that was recently posted outing the posters ?
    This is just OSA 101.
    Identifying “enemies” and filing and cross filing and doing threat assessment is a daily chore at OSA INT and the lead is Kathy O”Gorman, long term Guardian Office and now OSA staff/
    Anything goes. Anything
    to cover up the horror stories and spin and lies are the order of the
    day.
    Anything to save the longevity of Scientology and the end result
    ?
    Get those Titanium slabs into the mountains of every word Hubbard has ever
    said on paper, tape, film.
    Let’s continue to shine light on these hidden activities.
    Kathy O”Gorman known as “KO” is 2nd from right next to Milton Katsalus (RIP)

    • Truthiwant

      What a creepy group of people they are.

      You’re right, Karen, they do find out who you are, if they want to.

      Personally, I am not trying to hide my own identity, and I have, without actually saying my name, been pretty open about myself and where I live. However, one day on an Italian (OSA) site, my name popped up. I guess they had been reading my stories and didn’t find them funny. Admittedly, Scientologists are not known for their sense of humour!

      Anyway, I’ll just take this opportunity to say “Hi, OSA!”

      • Missionary Kid

        I’ll just take this opportunity to say, “Fuck you, OSA!”

        • Phil de Fontenay

          I second that motion… “Fuck you, OSA!” You haven’t yet woken up to the fact you’re on the losing side of life ~tsk tsk 😉

      • NOLAGirl

        And this is what I hate about it. That anyone has to feel like they have to hide their identity for fear of reprisal from a “religious” group disgusts me. Karen says in her video that she’s going to expose any fair gaming on her, I think anyone who is experiencing it should do the same. Show the world how this “church” treats people.

        • Sejanus

          Bravo!
          I have long felt that stretching OSA to the breaking point is more realistic than being in fear of them.

          The two universal truths out there seem to be everyone knows that $cientology is a cult and its followers have issues. With the case in Texas with the Rathbuns it is clear the tide is turning. The courts are tiring of hearing and seeing this organization before them and rightly so.

          They are making more enemies than friends on a daily basis which is ironic really. For years they have waged “war” on the pyschs and it has gone mostly unnoticed. Any hate that has surfaced for the group, they have generated it themselves by essentially being dickish bullies with rich parents. Before their foolishness the Co$ was mostly ignored or the butt of jokes. Now they are reviled.

          Thank you for that Davey Miniman.

          • SP Wannabe

            “Dickish bullies”, uneducated, spying frauds, thieves, etc. But what gets me the most about the heavily still in is that they seem to have no understanding of manners or polite behavior. Their ignorant rudeness seems to me to be the biggest block to them ever succeeding at anything. They won’t ever be accepted in polite society because they are incapable of understanding or following even kindergarten playground rules. How can anyone take them seriously when they behave like tantrum-throwing toddlers?

            Hey, OSA agent or whomever, here’s a tip – it’s not “communicate TO”, it’s “communicate WITH.” If you can’t even speak with the other 6.9999 billion people on the planet, YOU are a FAILURE.

          • Missionary Kid

            Davey Miniman, a new nickname for DM. I’ll post it later.

          • Sid

            Well yes, but don’t worry they are still the butt of jokes.

      • Sid

        In Scientology it’s all dismissed with labels. You are just a joker and degrader. End of story.

      • Barbara Angel

        Well then please, please, collect all the dog poo you can and put it in your trash can. At least this way after sifting through your trash they won’t go away empty handed, or with clean hands. Maybe leave a gift box with McSlappy’s name on it, marked private, super confidential, special gift for ‘dearest Mr Miscavage’.

        • Truthiwant

          OSA are not interested in me, let alone go through my trash can.
          However, if they did go through it, they would find a whole bunch of junk mail sent to me by themselves! They are welcome to have it back!

          • Barbara Angel

            Does that mean you are too posh to use it as toilet paper then? We grew up with phone books or newspaper torn into squares, would have been nice to have some classy brochures to use instead.

            • Draco

              Oh no – the paper is too glossy – it just slides and then clogs up the john.

            • Barbara Angel

              Don’t flush then, store it all in large plastic bags and return to sender, preferably all over the door step. Put a sign on it saying “in the interest of recycling and saving the planet we return alllll your brochures and important mail to be reused and save the trees”.
              Signed: From an Ethical; hocus pocus, tree hugging, ex-bloody hippie. Please add in the spirit of generosity some xoxoxox to dearest Mr Miscavage, the most ethical man on the planet. I’m quite sure he’d like that.

        • Mine is already full of kitty litter but perhaps from now on I will put it all in a nice box with a red bow and Dearest Leader written on it.

          • Barbara Angel

            Yep, don’t forget to write ‘large cheque enclosed’, he’ll open that one for sure.

        • SP Wannabe

          Hee! I have long held to the practice of emptying my shredder at the same time I empty the cat’s litterbox, and into the same bag. Anyone wants to try to put it back together, have fun!

          • Barbara Angel

            Hahahaha ‘shitty litter’ in the same bag. No one can top that one. Thanks for today’s best smile, a great way to start the day. Poor poopy fingers OSA, suppose that’s better than running around a tree all day in the hot weather.

      • My name is Larry Lester

        Yoor strip is very funy. I am in tears…Seriously…Very funy person. Plees keep it going..
        (cuvering up mi spelling trael so not 2 bee identifide. in fact if wi all cuver up oow speling then this blog wood be noon as the most iliterate blog in the hol world.)

        • Juicer77

          And now we’ve become Cheezburger. 😉

        • Truthiwant

          Maybe we should write in Marcabian!

        • Barbara Angel

          Naaah, they’ll just think we’ve all been to $camology school. Spelling is not high on the list at co$. Why waste time on education? It only distracts the slaves from their unpaid 100 weeks.

      • Mike rinder, Mike Ellis and Mike Adams !

        Scientology holds the Mike so to speak,

        -Ron

        http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/wp-content/blogs.dir/445/files/2012/04/i-972dd8d5c4a546c4fd0a9f897e4ee799-wvborc.jpg

      • InTheNameOfXenu

        OSA can archive everything we say here and have individual folders till they are blue in the face. It’s too late for Scientology. Their heydays of the G.O. are over. They are done like dinner. The internet is crushing them, long-time members are walking away in droves.

        Miscavige has lost control so he best make evacuation plans.

        • Missionary Kid

          I agree. The ratio of $cientologists/Exes, Anons, and people who dislike the cult is very low, far lower than before. That means that it’s a huge task they would have to get everyone. Unfortunately, if they target any one person, it can still hurt.

          • InTheNameOfXenu

            So long that’s it’s Rinder or Rathbun it’s fine by me. They dished out a lot of hurt on many people by putting Miscadick into power. Now it’s their duty to endure fair-gaming and to expose their ex-boss and the cult’s crimes.

            • Missionary Kid

              Miscadick has been collected for the DM nicknames list.

              You’re saying that turnabout is fair play. On the other hand, having Karen, and even i-Betty targeted is an illustration of the fact that fear is the currency that Co$ pays in while taking in money.

      • villagedianne

        Love your comic strip! Bet it’s even better in the original Klingon.

      • Stephanie Loving

        CO$ definitely is a creepy group over all. Their uniforms. Their black pants & white shirts. But this is a wedding photo and l think Karen de la C is a stunning bride. Drop dead ga-gorgeous.

        • Truthiwant

          I was referring to the Sea Org as creepy. Not the photo!
          Actually when I wrote my reply, I hadn’t even seen the photo, I only saw it after refreshing.

          • Stephanie Loving

            I figured that was the issue ;o) BTW I love your posts

    • Sid

      I’m pretty sure they know who I am. They’ve already disconnected me from my family, trashed a good portion of my income, and a few other tidbits. Towards the end of my involvement when I was becoming persona non grata I went to an old (Scientologist) employer who I’d made millions for previously. The only criteria for hiring he was concerned about was whether I was a Scientologist in good standing or not. Needless to say I didn’t get the job. Probably best in the long run though.

      As far as what’s in peoples’ folders it seems to me that aside from a few exceptions the church has a lot more crimes to hide than any possible little sordid bits that they might find in mine or others past compiled reports. They can bring it. We can bring it. Let’s see who has the most unethical behavior that comes out. I personally think they will lose.

      • daytoncapri

        So sorry to read your story. Thank you for choosing to hang tough.

    • Bavarian Rage

      “Every word a Bunkerite posts is recorded and cross filed.”
      “…anything at all that you say is filed and cross filed to identify you…”

      Question: Curious – this wouldn’t apply to a peon never-in from insignificant nowhere land (outside the U.S.) where no Scientologist resides within a 400 mile radius, would it? My husband says “be careful what you post, especially location/identity”, and I am vague (my country & general region could be determined in mere minutes), but I see myself as a harmless observer that poses no threat other than a caustic opinion of, and a few snarky remarks aimed at, said cult.

      No one would bother themselves with my comments, would they? We are legion.

      • Missionary Kid

        I’d still be careful. The internet makes it possible for mischief to be done to someone thousands of miles away.

        You probably haven’t done anything to put you on their radar for targeting, but being vague is probably a good thing, unless you are well electronically defended.

        It’s like the ocean. Swimming in it is not very dangerous, aside from all the fears that people have of sharks, which are unrealistic, but one should be aware that there are sharks out there, and one doesn’t go swimming with bait strapped to their waist.

        • joan nieman

          We are legion. We are the Bunker. We are strong and we are the Truth.

          • FromPolandWithLove

            And We stand tall 😉

          • Missionary Kid

            I agree, but we need to be smart about what we do. Being in the right doesn’t mean we’re protected if DM or OSA puts one of us on their shit list.

        • Bavarian Rage

          Thanks for cautionary, though well-measured answer. In other words, continue sleeping well at night, but be Internet smart, and don’t let down my guard, right?

          • Missionary Kid

            Yup. I’d make my passwords long, and my password file encrypted, with the usual protections in place.

            • daytoncapri

              Yup. They’ll track your movements once you’ve gotten their attention.

        • kemist

          A huge part of those things are illegal.

          I’d like OSA boobs to get caught for computer crime very, very much. The courts hate and fear computer crimes so much I have a feeling religion would fall very flat as a defense.

          Anyone here with a server they have tried to penetrate ?

          • grundoon

            Digital communications in Scientology means using your finger instead of a pencil to work the rotary dial of the telex machine. Scientologists do attachments with a stapler and “cc:” with carbon paper. Scientology spyware is dark sunglasses.

            Someday century they might master spell check and figure out how to keep Rinder from getting their seekrit OTC minutes. Then everyone beware OSA’s haxx0rs and their rmgroup of doom. But first, probably, their time will run out.

      • Sid

        They don’t have the personnel to go after everyone. You really don’t have anything to worry about.

        • daytoncapri

          I’m not so sure.

        • We are OSA we are nowhere, man!

      • Bah, let them try and do something as you say We are Legion! they? not so much.

        • Bavarian Rage

          Thanks, my gut instinct exactly.

      • daytoncapri

        Oh gawd , your last sentence. If they know you are a member of “Anonymous” and having some real effect on them… OTOH, you don’t sound like someone who will wear the Guy Fawks Mask and taunt them in the streets.

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        I am trying to do the math. One hundred investigators doesn’t sound like a lot considering all the people who are openly angry with Scientology. How many of the OSA are working on the leading critics of the movement?

        I was told by early protestors that if Scientology wants your name they will get it, so don’t start unless you are willing to accept that. But, make it hard for the OSA on the way. Don’t hand them your identity on a platter.

        Only one of those early protestors went by his own name. They never bothered him beyond the picket line. There were actually two people with his name in this large city. He had to wonder if the other person was getting harassed at work and being investigated for vulnerabilities back to grade three. But mostly he thought that Scientology didn’t have the energy or manpower to go after him.

        The investigators will be enturbulated (Scientology’s point of view). They will be freed (my point of view).

        They are tireless and driven by religious fervour. I think of the Monte Python gag about the Spanish Inquisition– “We have two weapons– FEAR and SURPRISE”. The list of weapons quickly grows.

        But they are also BUMBLERS. It is hard to do your job right when you think you have superhuman abilities and that Tone 40 intention makes much of a difference. It is hard to do this sort of thing when you need a statistic by Thursday and no meaningful statistic is there.

        When I left the protests I took a circuitous route home and watched my own back. My wife, quite understandably, didn’t want fanatics picketing our house which is what happened to one of the other locals. If they have my identity I am unaware of it. They have done nothing to me aside from the horrors that occurred when I was a member.

        • Bavarian Rage

          Thanks for your insight, Mighty Teegeeack. I realize my “we are legion” comment left an open door to question whether I am associated with Anonymous. I am not. Just grabbed the phrase from its Biblical New Testament origin involving Jesus and a herd of pigs! Legion was a large Roman army unit, if I’m not mistaken. Just meant we who verbalize our disdain, ridiculously outnumber Davey’s humble party of evil minions.

          ETA: ARMY unit

          • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

            I am a member of Anonymous, I suppose. I have attended many of their rallies but I don’t fit the profile. They are usually very young compared to me. They are also far more knowledgeable with computers. Still, if they will accept me, I will be a member.

      • I’m a peon never-in hear me roar..or pass gas I’m getting old. o0

    • Barbara Angel

      Absolutely the BEST news, they read Every word that’s said….YAY…x 1,000 At least they get to read the truth about their “Imaginary religion”. People see and experience the truth pointed out to them here and at other sites. Seeds are planted and Mc Slappy, yells, screams and breaks things when he reads anything unfavourable to the megalomaniac delusions, he has about his self image.
      Hey Mc Slappy, guess what?
      Thousands and thousands of good people think you are a vicious little shit.

      • I hope they add to my file that Iam a cm taller than Dick Midget and that I hate chain smoking pisspot tiny nutted bullies.

        • Barbara Angel

          They “Read Every Word”, now that’s terrific news. Seeds are planted and they must secretly be amused and eventually impressed by our list of ‘Honoured Titles for dear Mr mustravage. Let’s hope by now they’ve all learnt to fool the e-meter so they can think and laugh in secret.

      • Mark Foster

        But, Barb…shit FERTILIZES, so…he doesn´t even rate as that…

    • joan nieman

      I love that you stand up to this evil church Karin. Your truth shines through, Thank you for all these great videos. I love them.

    • FromPolandWithLove

      As always great post Karen :):):) Hmmmm , so my humble efforts in putting together my thoughts in English, are also monitored? Wooow, now I feel obligated to employ professional teacher to make grammar and spelling check. But on a seroius note. To everybody from COS reading this: Dare to think for Yourself!!!

      • Truthiwant

        In your case, OSA know where you live. They have now nailed it down to one in 39 million. Be careful!

        • FromPolandWithLove

          I always am 🙂

      • grundoon

        Maybe if all Scientology officials carefully monitor your posts, they may learn better English grammar and spelling. Already your English is better than most of theirs. Anyway what matters is the truth and honesty in your words, which they cannot imitate.

        • Jgg2012

          Maybe they’ll start questioning whether they should stay in Scientology.

        • FromPolandWithLove

          Thank You Grundoon 🙂

    • Vinnie Rego

      Is there a famous person people tell you you look like?

    • daytoncapri

      These guys are dangerous. I’ve seen it up close and personal. One of my friends was targeted and ruined by them. Think Paulette Cooper. Please, people, be careful, it’s not all lulz.

    • Vinnie Rego

      “This is a criminal organization.”

      In most organizations or forms of government, the most powerful rewards are for those at the top – money and power. Of course, there must be rewards for others as well, however meager – a place to sleep, something to eat…

      I’ve often thought that the best organization in the world is the human body. It’s incredibly complex, and it functions beautifully.

      The best government in the world could be the government we have inside our own bodies – the central nervous system.

      ‘Course, it’s complex, and there’s more to it than that… But, in a way, that’s my point – whatever it is that’s involved, in this internal government of the body, it’s part of an incredible unity. The body is a unity. When ANY PART of the body feels good, the soul feels good. The brain feels it – you feel it. It’s a unity, and it’s the best government in the world, and that leads me back to the church of Scientology.

      What kind of bizarre government is the Church of Scientology? I know I’m not going to get any likes for saying this, but, there are intense feelings of reward associated with auditing. That release of dopamine is part of ‘the system,’ similar to the way the release of dopamine enables the functioning of the body – it’s a unity.

      Scientology is about the MIND, but it’s also very much about GOVERNMENT. I think the two are intimately related. We create governments in our own image, even if that image is a distorted one…

      • lucille austero

        $cientology: all about the mind, as told by notorious lunatic L Ron Hubtard.

      • Missionary Kid

        The rewards in auditing mostly don’t come from the directed cognitions, but the other ones that spring from inside a person.

        I’ve posted before about a form of auditing that I had that was far removed from its LRH roots. I found it beneficial (it was also virtually free), but a good therapist is still better.

    • Anonymous

      You are correct Karen…often times communicating the intelligence operation aspect of the church to folks is not easy as people tend to discount the degree of mendacity / extremest conduct used in furtherance of the effort to protect the racketeering occurring within Scientology. Senior church leadership believe it is their religious imperative to harm those who seek to stop them from their illegal conduct. They have hordes of highly paid professional enablers who are also assisting in the effort, but for purely monetary reasons.

      The effort to protect the racketeering is comparable to the effort to extract money from the people being racketeered. Racketeering and protecting those who do the racketeering from civil and criminal consequences are the two activities which consume the bulk of the attention of senior church management. The IAS is designed to fund the protection of those racketeers.

      I would add this, however:

      Other people are keeping files too. Those files are quite large and growing daily.

      Among the names in those growing files are Kathy O’Gorman and David Miscavige along with their primary professional enablers.

      The people keeping those files are quite interested in what is occurring and will act soon to bring the racketeering to an end.

      Think about a few other people who names were in similar files at one time…Mary Sue Hubbard and Jane Kember come to mind.

        • Mark Foster

          perfect!

          • And I leave my lists out as delicious web spider candy! Googlebot, YandexBot, Baiduspider… There are few others, including the spastic Bingbot and the ninja DuckDuckGo one. Most of my site’s traffic are bots crawling for search engines, and that idiot spammer from Texas.

      • Lady Squash

        Are you serious? You have this on good authority? If so, it can’t come too soon.

    • Asbestos Inspector

      I have had some “fair game” done on me too. Tony if you read this, maybe be can have a post where everyone is encouraged to post their “fair game” stories in the comments?

      Thanks again Karen for all you do. I am happy to hear that you haven’t had to experience any “fair game” abuse of late by those criminals.

      • grundoon

        A good time for posting your account of your experiences is whenever you wish. Welcome!

    • Joe Hurtado

      As horrible as Karen’ts description of their spy operation is, this gave me pause to chuckle: “Your style and spelling and way or writing is studied so that even if you post another name, you are identified.” The folks who do this must be highly valued Sea Org inmates, considering their general lack of educational resources and Scientology’s infamous ability to put out literature that’s poorly written and spelled.

    • valshifter

      they look like they all came out of that movie “The shining” only Jack Nicholson is missing there.

  • Espiando

    Regardless of what else happens in this suit, if Judge Whittemore finds against the arbitration system, it’s Epic Win for any Ex. Wally Pope Smokes Dope has put all his eggs into the religious arbitration basket. He needs Team Scilon to win on that one, or else the whole house of cards comes tumbling down. The moment that Judge Whittemore says that nothing in Scientology Justice applies to this situation, the flood gates open for refunds based on fraud. Thanks to the ruling in the Woodward case, everyone even has a road map on how to do it without the nasty bit of religion getting in the way.

    The cult’s weakness is money, both getting it and losing it. Mike’s just given them a massive kick in the nuts with steel-toed boots. The only move they have left is if Pope Smokes Dope tries to Dead Agent Mike. I don’t think Judge Whittemore is going to stand for that.

    • joan nieman

      Rinder gave them something to put in their pipe to smoke. Bravo Mike Rinder!

    • Todd Tomorrow

      I fear that if they do indeed win that they would appeal instantly. We’ve seen this tactic used before and this will get dragged on until the cows come home,which may be never. Or they would approach the, Garcia’s with a settlement, complete with an inclusive gag order. Someone above mentioned, Laura’s case and it’s been well over a decade and no money has changed hands. We’ve seen this happen so many times when people win cases and are awarded money(in this case a refund). They’d rather spend untold amounts of cash on lawyers rather than set a precedent or give them one cent back.

      • Even after the crime syndicate loses, they will refuse to pay off, the crooks will have to be taken back to court and threatened with asset seizure for the next 10 years.

    • The insane crooks could drown the Judge’s dog. That always works.

  • HappypantsDance

    This is a very encouraging development — thank you Mike Rinder! Now we wait to see if the US Justice system does its job, sadly not always a sure thing. But I’m cautiously optimistic here and hope this is precedent-setting so that others can begin the process of collecting at least some of funds the clampire swindled out of them.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    Red-X Red-X Red-X

    Go Garcias – it’s always been about the money.

    These lying cheating unprincipled bastards have upped their game.
    We have a ton of ads for your Red-Xing pleasure.
    We can up our game too 😉

    Thurs. list:
    https://whyweprotest.net/threads/taking-down-co-on-craigslist-co-ads-on-craigslist.113779/page-116#post-2490391
    4-day list:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-Kvg78kCcvo5gL7UfPcmhmbsagTNtdj0y2LAiHVFrCU/pubhtml

    • Barbara Angel

      Nice hat there blubbard and your costume is detailed to Perfection. Well done pan, thanks for the smile.
      (Been over flagging twice today already).

    • Juicer77

      One of the ads , I swear it says this: “Work and Exhaustion” and farther down “If you are interested in learning more call Jane at…” I think we’re getting hidden messages now like in the old Chinese laundry stories.

    • “Big Daddy” love it, love it

  • Hurray to Mike Rinder coming thru again!!! COB must really be fuming!!

    • HappypantsDance

      Yes, another weekus horribilus for David Miscavige! Gleeeeeee!

      • Well if the judge agrees with the Garcias COB will be doing the “Emperor has no pants” dance!!

        • shasha40

          You now owe me a cup of java to replace the one I am now wearing after reading your comment , having spat it all over me ! Lol

          • Opps sorry I have that effect on people. folks lose more coffee that way, 🙂

            • shasha40

              I will have remember to not sip prior to reading your comments then . I guess I brought it in . Lol

            • Ok I’ll warn you if I put up an illo I did of LRH as Jabba the Hutt featuring COB as Salacious B. Crumb. 😉

            • shasha40

              Looking forward to it as I Love the shopped stuff . Did you post it before ? Seems familiar or I just have a good imagination . 😉

            • Shopped stuf? was that to me or Missionary? o0

            • shasha40

              That’s that frickin spell check changing my words ! I meant shooped .

            • Missionary Kid

              I didn’t have Salacious B. Crumb, but I do now on the list of DAVID MI$CAVIGE NICKNAMES http://tonyortega.org/2014/06/12/more-proof-of-kerri-kasems-scientology-involvement-and-laura-prepon-lies-like-a-rug/#comment-1563541963

            • Thanks MK, hopefully George Lucas sees the humor in it.

            • grundoon

              Who’s taller, GL or DM? They might see eye to eye on this.

            • Missionary Kid

              Lucas is half a foot taller, at 5’7″.

            • grundoon

              IMDB says 5’6″, and that’s probably rounded up. I concede that he still towers over DM though.

            • Missionary Kid

              Hearsaying it gave me an inch shorter. He definitely would tower over the shrimp, and I mean that not in the physical aspect, but the size of character.

            • beauty for ashes

              I have to laugh because when I was too young to appreciate it, my friend brought me to an event for ILM. I said to her, “Who’s the teddy bear looking guy everyone’s talking to?” several people shot me sharp looks and she said quietly and with gravitas,” That’s George Lucas.” oops!
              I’m around 5’5″ pretty sure he’s smaller than me.

            • Missionary Kid

              Publicists and shoe lifts do wondrous things for a person’s height.

              In any event, he’s taller than DM.

    • Barbara Angel

      Yes, making ‘Restitution’ is a good thing. Let’s hope that this episode of Restitution is really productive and causes maximum payouts to those who have been so severely *Wronged*!
      Thankfully the ‘cunning plan’ of, “let’s make sure there is no way for justice to be served” is coming to an end. Squirm davey Squirm….Expect Us……….

      • Wasn’t that a song by The O’jays? “Squirm Davey Squirm”?

        • Espiando

          If you’re making a reference to “Disco Inferno” by the Trampps, you can stick to “Burn Davey Burn”.

          • You are correct, too early in the morning.

          • ze moo

            Talking Heads, ‘Burning Down The House’

        • shasha40

          Doc , you’re killing me !!! Bahahahaha ! Are you thinking about the Tramps , Disco Inferno ? Squirm Davey squirm ,

          • I try. It was those herbs I took in the 70’s.

        • 1subgenius

          Have fun with this one. It needs no editing:

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXE_n2q08Yw

      • joan nieman

        I am going to use Tory’s famous words ” Tick tock …Davey”

        • Barbara Angel

          Unfortunately ‘tick tock’ has now been going on for decades. A tad depressing, the length of time involved in shutting these fuckers down, once and for all.
          Laura filed in 2009 estimated resolution by the Court is 2016 The ‘tick & tock’ are ticking and tocking way Tooooooooooooooo Slow for the multitudes seeking restitution.
          Mustravage and his gang of Enablers continue to damage and ravage.

          • joan nieman

            Unfortunately you are right. It has been going on for decades but I am certain that the time will come and then the alarm will go off. I am staying positive on this.

            • Barbara Angel

              Yes, agreed we have to Stay Positive about this. Some days the wait all gets a bit much. The Laura case of filing in 2009 and the prediction of case resolved by 2016, absolutely knocked the stuffing out of me. They use all the clams money to stall and stall and stall and Law Enforcement are just another batch of enablers. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

            • joan nieman

              You got that right! It is painful sometimes…hard to be patient.

          • Remember the patient person obtains. $cientology has been around along while it just gonna take some time.

            • Barbara Angel

              *Decades have gone by already*, the internet is a wonderful way of spreading the truth, but still the thrashing of the dying beasts tail is still claiming too many victims. Less tho’ thanks to the net and all the brave people who’ve spoken up and written True Story’s of how they were treated is such a despicable and dispensable way . How long will it take for all the narCON cases to be resolved if Laura’s case is going to take ***7 years to finalise***. Feeling very impatient at times and tonight is one of them.

          • April

            Yes, but it really seems to be snowballing now. There’s a legal shitstorm brewing.

            • Barbara Angel

              Thank you April, love the phrase “Legal Shitstorm brewing”, hopefully it will be a Hurricane that will make Hurricane Sandy look like a windy day. Some days I loose hope over the length of time it’s taking, but stalling, delaying, more stalling and delays are part of the co$a nostra’s dirty tricks.

          • Bob

            True but their limps are being tourniqueted more and more. The constant bad PR and exposure of the continuous lies and crimes of the church are cutting off their life blood. New people.
            Their hands will fall off, then their feet, then their arms and legs and soon they will not be able to move, with only empty buildings and the now paraplegic David Monstervige screaming his head off as the clam rats all jump ship.

            • Missionary Kid

              David Monstervige, another one for the list of DAVID MI$CAVIGE NICKNAMES http://tonyortega.org/2014/06/12/more-proof-of-kerri-kasems-scientology-involvement-and-laura-prepon-lies-like-a-rug/#comment-1563541963
              I can tell you like coming up with new nicknames. Just about every time you post, you come up with a new one.

            • Bob

              Yes, it’s a challenge and keeps the comments interesting for me. I think Mistakiage takes pride in all those names. Shows what a huge being he is to have so many enemies.

            • Missionary Kid

              You did it again with Mistakiage. I’ll post it later.

              I hope that he’s pissed, if he knows about it, instead of proud.

            • Barbara Angel

              Now that’s a good picture, thank you. The length of time for the demise or collapse of this bunch of Criminals and their scam, gets me down some times

            • Bob

              I know how you feel. I have been in the thick of it. I am very encouraged though by the progress that I see both in and out of the cherch. It’s still too slow for me. But that is changing rapidly. These lawsuits have the potential to blow the roof of their “ideal morgues”. And Davey the Dwindling Dweeb is in for the rough times ahead.

    • ze moo

      Someone is not going to have a peaceful, happy 2:01pm Thursday. Who will be the designated victim this time?

      • Observer

        And will Stanislav show up in the next couple of hours?

        • Espiando

          And will he whine to Tony about being oppressed if I respond to him?

        • lucille austero

          Ooh, our foreign guest! We can only hope 🙂

          • stillgrace2

            Norman is here already.

            • Qbird

              No one talking to him tho – good.
              Defective lure, for a hour’s time so far.

            • Espiando

              Yeah, this time I decided not to. Shame, though, since I had a really good comeback line for his post.

            • lucille austero

              Well, I couldn’t help myself.

            • Qbird

              Ooooh – bwahahaha! Caught one…
              tight lines & screaming reels, Lucille.

            • Qbird

              I am positive I would enjoy that line, you wicked wonderful sarcastic informational Bugs you.

  • Sid

    Mike Rinder’s affidavit is perfect. It takes apart the Ellis submission so precisely it could be considered a work of art. I was chuckling all the way through it. Whatever way the judge rules I know that with all the exposure the church is getting now eventually there will be a reckoning.

  • shasha40

    I Frickin’ Love it , Thank you, Mike Rinder !!! If that affidavit doesn’t open the Judges eyes to Scientology’s BS arbitration, nothing will .

  • Chee Chalker

    Co$ response to MR affidavit: “Chairman of the Board, the esteemed Mr. David Miscavige, who has, in the past year, opened 3,762 new churches on Earth, Mars and the Van Allen Belt. The Esteemed Ecclesiastical Mr Miscavige has no recollection of this ‘Mike Rinder.’ The Church is expanding at 47,000 times so Mr Miscavige has other things that require his attention. The Beloved COB does remember meeting Mr Rinder once whilst Mr Rinder was in a line for a Co$ soup kitchen, but Mr Rinder never held any post of authority in the Church and knows nothing about the Church arbitration procedures which are inherently fair and unbiased”

    • chukicita

      *bzzzzz!* Co$ would never have a soup kitchen. Thank you for playing.

      • Chee Chalker

        Very true, but that would not prevent them from writing a story about the (nonexistent) soup kitchen that feeds millions every year. Like every other ‘stat’ they produce, it is make believe.

  • BosonStark

    About the topic of Karen’s video, if there’s one thing aside from finding out that Scientology, in general, is a mind trap designed to extract large amounts of money, their repeated breaches of confidentiality of the auditing files for purposes of control should be their big downfall.

    I guess the problem is that people entering just don’t believe that Scientology could be as successful as it is, if they abused the confidential information in the auditing files. It is Scientology’s dirty secret. Even when Scientology doesn’t use that information, some members feel safer staying in, rather than leaving, because of what they confessed to in auditing. I’m sure John Travolta feels that way.

    • Missionary Kid

      It really isn’t a breach of confidentiality, because they define confidentiality like they define ethics: completely different than the rest of the world.

      • BosonStark

        Well, perhaps it would be easiest for the new member to know that Scientology holds KSW, selling Scientology and perpetuating it, above all else. Once they are fully brainwashed, KSW becomes their justification for everything, as expressed so shockingly well by Tom Cruise in his video. Even “getting ethics in” on other members, is because they are failing to KSW.

        Xenu and KSW in the intro packet would probably do it for most people. Getting into their twisted and multitude of contradictory policies, like their “justice system” and how they redefine terms is too complex for most people to fathom. As Rinder suggests, it is baloney on paper just to have something there.

        • Barbara Angel

          As a never in, what is KSW please. Kicking Shit out of Wogs maybe?

          • daytoncapri
          • Missionary Kid

            For a list of $cientology terms, http://www.xenu.net/archive/dictionary/

            I added Kicking Shit out of Wog to KSW MEANINGS on the entry, What the initials KSW, OT, ARC, OAS, OSA, RPF, COB, IAS, & others mean http://tonyortega.org/2014/06/12/more-proof-of-kerri-kasems-scientology-involvement-and-laura-prepon-lies-like-a-rug/#comment-1439059206

            • Barbara Angel

              Thank you MK, it’s hard to remember the secret co$a nostra codes.
              It took quite a while to decipher them in the beginning. Would much prefer they would just use simple Mafia lingo, such as ‘whack em’ this could be code for ‘bankrupting’ people.

            • Missionary Kid

              The clams love to use aconyms. It’s one of the things that keeps them separated from us wogs. It’s part of the isolation that Co$ uses.

          • Observer
            • Barbara Angel

              Thank you.

          • April

            Haha. Barbara your definition of KSW is probably more accurate than the official one. 😀

          • Guest

            It stands for “Keeping Scientology Working”, a policy that Hubbard wrote outlining ways to ensure Scientology’s survival. It involved things like making sure things don’t get altered, crushing opposing mental therapies, etc. Every major course done in Scientology has this as the first thing you read.

            • Barbara Angel

              Thank you for the explanation. KSW should really be KTMCI = keep the money coming in. The seemingly insatiable lust for money and stupidity of those criminals and my pity for the victims………….. Sigh

        • April

          Boson said: “Tom has to put it in himself, when he wants to romp and play.”
          That sounds kinda kinky. TC is more than a little wacky but he’s still relatively handsome and wealthy so I’m sure he could find someone to help him out with sexy times.

          • LHS

            “I’m sure he could find someone to help him out with sexy times.”

            I’m sure the church could help him find someone, it worked out so well with Katie. Oh, wait…

  • endoftheQ

    OT. I saw on Mike’s site that Penniless Bleeder has manage to raise a couple of quid for his i$teal Org in Edinburgh. http://d.pr/1gXfM sadly Sunderland has also yet to break the £10 barrier http://d.pr/1g4Nb but fantastic news that Plymouth is beating them hand-over-fist with an amazing £13.85. http://d.pr/1hm0p I’m sure the Potty Pixie will be announcing these stunning fundraising results to an astounded crowd over the weekend. 😉

    • Juicer77

      It’s an incredible percentage increase! Straight up and vertical 🙂 I look forward to reports from those who are attending. Thank you, tipsters, you are appreciated more than you know.

    • Bavarian Rage

      i$teal Org. Perfect! Love it!

      • Missionary Kid

        I agree. I put it on a list.

    • Missionary Kid

      I’ve added i$teal Org to the list of nicknames for Ideal Orgs at $CIENTOLOGY ORGANIZATIONS AND FRONT GROUPS http://tonyortega.org/2014/06/12/more-proof-of-kerri-kasems-scientology-involvement-and-laura-prepon-lies-like-a-rug/#comment-1439059333

    • AmoVolare

      So what the: £7,689,767.19 donated to good causes in the UK is supposed to mean?
      At first glance i read £ 10.000 and, netherless, I thought it was wery little… But….. £ 10 (ten pounds)?
      And less thant 10 donors? May be they put up the whole thing less than 10 seconds ago (or they are really f—d up).

      • endoftheQ

        The easyfundraising site uses the affiliate model, ie. if you want to buy something from Amazon, you click through from their site and they get the affiliate commission, same as here at the Bunker. I guess every little helps, huh?!

  • Panopea Abrupta

    Justice and $cientology ?

    In Buchenwald, a labour (not a death) camp – although many thousands
    of people were worked to death or deliberately killed there – the Nazis
    chose the motto Jedem Das Seine (To Each What They Are Due). It
    was placed on the inside of the gate rather than the outside, so that
    every prisoner was reminded of it as they looked to the world outside.
    The words are a powerful statement – and in this context a complete
    and provocative perversion of any notion of justice. They are the German
    translation of the Roman law maxim Suum cuique, incorporated not just into German law but legal systems across Europe.

    $cientology has similarly perverted justice for decades.
    But there are vultures coming home to roost.

    It looks like the Garcias might get what they are due.
    Mike Rinder has scuttled the leaky vessel Wally Pope was piloting for the Diminutive Malevolent.
    Let us hope Dinky Misfit gets what is coming to him too and that he gets to read the writing on the gate from the inside soon.

    TICK TOCK, DM

  • ze moo

    Mike Rinder use of the word ‘disingenuous’ is a wonderfully understated way of saying ‘liar, liar, pants on fire’ to a court. Ellis tried to confuse the court with his talk about comm evs and arbitration, but has now been called on it. I can see the judge asking for more info on how many ‘arbitrations’ were actually done and what was the result. That is just another waste of time, there are no rules, at least none that can not be overruled by another authority. This case is going to prove that the clampire is in violation of 93 IRS agreement. Will the IRS enforce that agreement?

    • Barbara Angel

      Naaah the IRS seem to enjoy relentlessly ruining the little people who are behind on their taxes. No balls to take on co$. Shame on the IRS, they have become another group of *Enablers*

    • Just Dee

      I was wondering if the Judge would ask for more info also. But I don’t think scientology should get a do-over. They submitted their declaration, attaching no evidence. I would hope the Judge can clearly see through the BS.

  • flyonthewall

    Who doesn’t smell their aunt’s underwear from time to time? These scientologists just need to get over it

    • Ruby

      funny.

  • Still_On_Your_Side

    I think Judge Whitmore made up his mind after the last hearing, and the church knows it. Its submission of a response to the court that failed to mention the word arbitration even once was a foolish move. It also was an admission by the church that there have never been any rules governing arbitration. If the church now tries to refute Mike Rinder’s affidavit (which the court will probably not allow), it will bite itself in the tail. I could be wrong, but I cannot see the court ruling for the church since the jurisdiction of a federal court cannot be supplanted by an arbitration forum that never existed.

    • Real religions and real churches have actual documents, they would have been able to comply with the Judge’s order. These filthy insane crooks don’t have any of that, obviously, so they tried to commit more fraud on the court. Mike Rinder underscored that fact perfectly.

  • aquaclara

    Quite a detailed description of how “justice” in Scientology was meant to work, filed publicly for all to see. Mike did a great job here, laying it all out for everyone to see.

    IF Scientology had a belief in justice, their actions would show it:
    1. They would be perfectly fine with returning a payment for something when it was requested
    2. They would uphold courts of law in California, Texas, Florida and elsewhere
    3. They would stop doing illegal things or – imagine this – never do them in the first place
    4. And they would publicly apologize for any wrong-doings

    The jury is all in on this one. Justice can only prevail in a courtroom, thanks to exes who uncover the fraud. The lawyers who are tired of the cult’s bullsh*t. And the journalists who cover this stuff.

    Thanks, Garcias. Great job, Mike.

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    I think we all know how the CoS will respond to Mike Rinder’s affidavit:

    “Mike Rinder is a mean, bitter apostate, and his opinions should have no bearing on this case.

    He is also a religious bigot who hates Scientology.

    Did we mention he is really, really mean?

    ML,
    Lawyer du Jour”

    • flyonthewall

      I think Frozen Caveman Lawyer will be filing that response

      • NOLAGirl

        (F5)

        • flyonthewall

          nice, I am shocked that I can’t find any of these skits on youtube

          • NOLAGirl

            Try the NBC website, they keep all the SNL vids there. Damn I miss Phil Hartman. Such a talented, funny man.

            • flyonthewall

              Yeah, him and Will Ferrell are the best. Crazy how Phil died

            • NOLAGirl

              I know. A tragedy for all involved, especially their kids.

            • flyonthewall

              couldnt find and caveman lawyer but did find this – http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/anal-retentive-chef/n9695 . I may be related this character 🙂

            • NOLAGirl

              One of his funniest characters, he also did the Anal Retentive Carpenter. Hilarious. 🙂

        • BosonStark

          Captain Miscavige states that Mike Rinder and the Hole he put him in both do not exist.

          • NOLAGirl

            🙂

            That makes me think of THDNE. Come visit us honey, I miss you!!

    • Jack99

      You forgot “with an ax to grind”.

      • Observer

        And to take anything Rinder says “with a huge grain of salt.”

        • Jack99

          “…since he’s a child pornographer and wife beater.”

    • Ruby

      Bitter, “defrocked” apostate…the defrocked part is really, really important. 🙂

  • flyonthewall

    This is OT but it was so funny I had to share here. The Irish Anons fucking with the Dublin mission. Skip to 3:15 mark for the funniest parts – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-ZBnrKOzQ4

  • Scientology “justice” is just like Mafia “justice” — How can organized crime which exists only to rook and swindle rubes, marks, suckers, and gullible people out of every last dime they can find some how have “justice?” It’s absurd.

    I know that Judges aren’t allowed to consider any obvious evidence which shows they damn well know Scientology is a criminal enterprise except for the documents and testimony laid before them, but come the fuck right on, this shit is getting tiresome, Judges should see the name “Scientology” in their docket cases and automatically rule against the crooks by now.

  • these were the haiku i was gonna tweet yesterday….. 🙂 well except the thursday 2pm one!!

    Thursday 2 p.m.
    Pressure building and no time
    to apply ‘the tech’.
    #haiku #scientology #NotThatTheTechWouldWork #NeedMoreMoney #RPFThreats

    niblet: sinister
    minister leading people
    onto doom: GET OUT!!
    #scientology #haiku #niblet #sinisterminister #doom

    Use my face, not name!
    @nancycartwright doesn’t want
    public ties to Scis.
    #haiku #scientology #WhyNotNancyCartwright #Ashamed #YouShouldBe

    Children’s voice actor’s
    church uses child labor.
    Many other shames.
    @nancycartwright #haiku #scientology #ChildLabor #TheyWouldEnslaveBart

    [Observer posted this quote the other day]
    “The only way you can
    control people is to lie
    to them”–L. Ron
    #haiku #RealQuote #scientology #LRonHubbard #GetACluePeople

    [little haiku ‘theme’ i worked up the other day]

    New Sci burials!
    No more scattering ashes
    You must be buried! (1/12)
    #haiku #NewSciMoneyScheme #scientology

    Scis in good standing
    are now required to be
    buried in our lots! (2/12)
    #haiku #NewSciMoneyScheme #Scientology #TheyMightDoThisSomeday

    First cemetery
    located close to Flag with
    thousands ideal plots. (3/12)
    #haiku #NewSciMoneyScheme #scientology #plausible

    Scis will bury you
    In a casket that includes
    your own e-meter. (4/12)
    #haiku #NewSciMoneyScheme #scientology #SeemsLegit

    They’ll also have back
    up e-meter, the basics
    and T.W.T.H. (5/12)
    #haiku #NewSciMoneyScheme #scientology #WhatElseYouNeed

    All Scis in current
    good standing MUST purchase in
    advance, whole package. (6/12)
    #haiku #NewSciMoneyScheme #scientology

    Whole package is plot,
    coffin and what it contains,
    and funeral service. (7/12)
    #haiku #NewSciMoneyScheme #scientology

    Packages start at
    $100,000 and up
    You must buy these NOW! (8/12)
    #haiku #NewSciMoneyScheme #scientology #Thursday2pm

    More cemeteries
    planned in the Valley and in
    more ‘ideal’ cities. (9/12)
    #haiku #NewSciMoneyScheme #scientology #ValleyISaMorgue

    An obscure writing
    by L Ron was found saying
    Scis should be buried. (10/12)
    #haiku #NewSciMoneyScheme #scientology #ObscureMeansTheyMadeItUp

    You need to buy NOW!!
    Don’t disappoint your thetans
    or deny church cash! (11/12)
    #haiku #NewSciMoneyScheme #scientology

    Sea Org who sign for
    extra billion years will be
    buried at half cost. (12/12)
    #haiku #NewSciMoneyScheme #scientology #WhatADeal #SeaOrg

    • Espiando

      Just want to add one to welcome the new staff of the Pacifica Bridge:

      Fake navy and an
      asbestos boat. In six words,
      that is the Sea Org.
      #haiku #scientology #fakenavy #nopersonalhygiene #hellosailor

      • oh that’s great!! jotting down and will use it and of course give you credit!! thank you! 🙂

  • Hamtaro

    Tony’s story today is amazing for more than one reason. With this affidavit Mike Rinder not only buttressed the Garcia’s legal position, he has also claimed authorship for a series of representations that were used to fraudulently obtain Scn’s 1993 tax exemption. This is not a small thing: he has stated in a legal document that he is the author of the specific verbiage that perpetrated a sham on the U.S. govt.

    His elaborately worded palaver about arbitration and the availability of refunds in Scn’s submissions to the IRS was what Scn used back in ’93 to mollify very serious concerns the IRS had expressed about Scn’s policy of “fixed donations.” Anyone who has seriously studied those documents knows that without Rinder’s official representations, it would have been virtually impossible for Scn to get the tax exemption.

    Today Rinder has taken responsibility for his personal contribution to the largest single fraud ever perpetrated by the cult known as Scientology. That can’t have been easy. I have never been a huge Rinder fan because too many of my friends were victims of his actions as head of OSA. But today you can color me pretty damn impressed.

    • lucille austero

      I hope you are right, and I hope the IRS is watching.

    • TheRupture

      Sometimes all it takes is turning over The domino. It takes a long time and fountains of patience to build a case, but when that one hallmark moment arrives with the push of one piece, the rest fall hard and fast.

      http://youtu.be/oFUggRpHGyU

    • Except that the IRS does not care, they abdicated their responsibilities decades ago. Rich parasites get away with murder, the IRS only goes after people who can’t defend themselves.

    • aquaclara

      “With this affidavit Mike Rinder not only buttressed the Garcia’s legal position, he has also claimed authorship for a series of representations that were used to fraudulently obtain Scn’s 1993 tax exemption.”
      wow. wow. wow.
      Thanks, H.

    • J. Swift

      Mike Rinder’s affidavit clearly shows both the Church talking out of both sides of its mouth:

      The SP is not entitled to Scientology justice whereas any SP asking for a refund must submit to Scientology justice.

      Like the Cult of Scientology itself, the Scientology refund system is designed to be a Catch-22.

      IMO, the Cult must now play the religion card in hopes of escape. However, the Cult has now, arguably, unintentionally exposed its internal contradictory fraud to the court.

      As I have long maintained, the Cult of Scientology will hang itself with the rope of its own tax exemption — and the noose just tightened around its neck in Florida.

      COB had better get his wog lawyers busy patching this fraud in the exemption process. Some new contracts have to be written whereby anyone asking for a refund must do so while exterior with full perception; in other words some new impossibility must be introduced into the refund process because the ruse of arbitration isn’t working.

  • Just read yesterday’s story. An extremely wealthy couple is so sick and tired of their kid(s) that they ship him across the world just to get rid of him after brokering a deal with Miscavige to find a Scientologist to dump the kid(s) on; and Scientology is actually being funded by Big Pharma.

    • Sejanus

      Ain’t hypocrisy a kick in the skull?

    • aquaclara

      It wasn’t a dream.
      And child x 2. Just when you thought you had seen the worst of Scientology’s care for children, BAM.
      Two kids. They gave two of their children away, paying someone to take them. I hope the other five are safe. Child Protective Services should know about this. But I don’t think they would do anything about it.

  • dagobarbz

    Scientology wasn’t very careful about picking its enemies. Mike Rinder? Oh…DM, Mikey is WAY smarter than you’ll ever be. You opened up a big ol’ can of chowder with this one. I am wallowing in schadenfreude.

    Funny, the anniversary of me and Anon Orange’s little dust-up with Gold Base security is coming up. That’s the flap DM came home to after being Mister Important at the IAS event in the UK.

    That was then, and Gold Base today keeps bleeding staff and having to hire outside landscapers to care for the grounds. That’s gotta hurt!

    • Would be lulzy to find out if the hired people are actually getting paid or whether the crooks are doing the usual: Delaying payment, paying a percentage of what they owe, claiming they were already paid, all the usual.

      Someone — hehe — should call around local landscaping companies.

      What we really need is a Clam Cam out there, a camera watching the front gates 24 hours a day, visible on the Internet.

  • Gerard Plourde

    Although it’s always risky to try to predict how a judge will rule, I think that Scientology’s position is weak from a legal and a historical perspective. There was a time when courts gave religious and charitable institutions great deference when faced with legal actions because they provided the social safety net and it was in society’s interest to ensure their survival. Following the Great Depression, government took over that role. Consequently, hospitals, other non-profits and finally religious organizations began to be held accountable for the actions that they committed. For religious organizations there is still an exception made regarding internal discipline and doctrinal disputes, and it is this that Scientology was pinning its hopes on. However, the transactions that are at issue are clearly and demonstrably not religious in nature and the mechanism for redress proffered by Scientology even by their own admission lacks independence and impartiality. The Affidavit by Mike Rinder is devastating in that it removes the final fig leaf, leaving Scientology fully exposed..

    • Anonymous

      It seems that among the gaffes committed by the church was offering a church policy letter dated (IIRC) 1963 as somehow being central to how the church administers it’s (alleged) arbitration process. The absurdity of that in light of all the organizational changes that have occurred since seems odd. Perhaps they expected Rinder’s counterpoint and were attempting to highlight a reference that predates his involvement in the church.

      It also occurs to me that there is a bit of deliberate misdirection going on – a head feint if you will – before the church then tries to dive into a pure 1st amendment defense as the determining issue. They can fight that one for quite some time if necessary.

      It is also possible that they church has made an error…but with what is a stake here, I suspect treachery rather than foolishness.

      • Gerard Plourde

        “It also occurs to me that there is a bit of deliberate misdirection going on – a head feint if you will – before the church then tries to dive into a pure 1st amendment defense as the determining issue. They can fight that one for quite some time if necessary.”

        This speaks exactly to my point regarding the dramatic shrinking of charitable immunity. Because the funds were donated for the purpose of the “Superpower” building program a court would deem them to be a restricted gift. The law is quite clear on restricted gifts. Misuse of a restricted gift is not an issue that can be deflected by a First Amendment argument. To use an analogy, suppose the Catholic Church raises money to build a new cathedral. Instead the bishop renovates his residence using money from the restricted gift. There is no way that a court would tolerate a First Amendment challenge. The issues are completely secular.

        • Anonymous

          “…The issues are completely secular…”

          We’ve been saying essentially the same thing for quite awhile, however the determination of what actually occurred has yet to be settled.

          If Babbitt can get the court to understand and rule that the issues are in fact secular, all sorts of interesting possibilities open up. The church will exhaust every conceivable avenue of delay to stall such an eventuality. A minimum outcome that I expect is that the church is going to have to alter the manner in which it secures large donations via asymmetrical information and releases.

          During several of the early Tax Court cases I have referenced previously the church was admonished that (paraphrasing) conduct that was proscribed in secular businesses would continue to be prohibited even if the church were to eventually gain tax exempt status. They did of course eventually gain tax exempt status and it appears the nefarious conduct of senior church leadership has been emboldened progressively ever since.

          I’m of the opinion that there are several actors awaiting the opportunity to correct some prior wrongs. These several civil cases are the prelude to much more significant actions to follow.

          • Gerard Plourde

            I agree. My thoughts are that Babbitt has gotten pretty far down the road to convincing the court that the transactions are secular and that the matter is properly in court.

            Your point about the language in the releases does raise an issue that could provide the church cover. If the agreement that the Garcias signed contains language that allows the church to repurpose the funds the actual outcome of the case becomes much more of a dice throw. I don’t have a knowledge of Florida (or alternatively, California) contract law, so I don’t know how much those jurisdictions allow for the use of statements beyond the four corners of the written agreement to discern what the parities actually agreed to (Pennsylvania is pretty strict in limiting extrinsic evidence).

            • Robert Eckert

              Here’s a little bit about Florida law, some cases setting aside the “parol evidence rule” (for non-lawyers: the general principle that extrinsic evidence beyond what is written in the contract cannot be allowed) if there was some oral agreement operating, prior to anything being written down, and it is claimed that the written agreement was not faithful to the original understanding.

              http://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ugc/wjhat-is-the-parol-evidence-rule-in-florida

  • Mark

    Slightly off-topic, but dedicated to all the Bunkerites and others from both the UK and elsewhere who will be protesting outside Doomsday Saint Hill Manor from tomorrow (refresh, and apologies to Googlehearsay Earth for the unofficial annotations):

    • stillgrace2

      Thanks, Mark! All we need now is Rinder and Bennitt in a chopper.

      • Mark

        Well, we had plans… (there’s a helicopter hire place close by) 😉

    • aquaclara

      laughing happily at this….this may be the only blog with both mascots and a custom song.
      Good luck, UK!

      • Mark

        The forecast for tomorrow and the weekend in East Grinstead is unseasonally warm—Bunker weather!

        • aquaclara

          and oh so perfect flying weather….

          • Mark

            I’m still taking my umbrella, just in case 🙂

        • TheRupture

          Unseasonably warm? That confirms it. Mr Hot Air is coming to town.

          • Mark

            I still have a fantasy of him being stopped at customs as an undesirable alien: “Sorry, Shortarse, Her Majesty’s Government has detected you’re damaging the ozone layer…”

    • Stacy

      Yes, good luck to IAS protesters Friday! I think that Saturday and Sunday here will be extremely interesting. Most of you have been through this before. I haven’t. I’m looking forward to all the interesting insider tidbits.

      It’s also nice to see that Snortimer is finally free of Krusty’s panties.

  • Bob

    Mike Rinder has IMHO taken on the task of redeeming his own self respect and going way further by helping others recapture their souls. In Scooby-Doo 2: Monsters Unleashed the alien monsters are capturing and stealing everyone’s soul. It could have been titled Scooby-Doo 2: Scientology Unleashed. Here’s a link to a video segment that shows what StealurSoultology does. Lousy video quality but it says it all.

    http://youtu.be/LFNJznReo8U

    • TheRupture

      Souls are nice, but cash is bestest.

      • Bob

        Still need control of souls to get bank account and CC numbers.

        • TheRupture

          I have a smartphone and table for that sort of thing. Just funning with you.

          • Bob

            Once the cherch has your numbers watch out. Then they don’t need you or your soul.

  • Peter Robinson

    The words ‘scientology’ and ‘intelligence operation’ in the same sentence is surely an oxymoron.

  • Asbestos Inspector

    Awesome Mike!!! Makes me feel good that this midget bully is being hit back by some real muscle!

  • Panopea Abrupta

    It’s the IAS 30th Bash.
    I suppose Discord Munchausen, the Daft Midget, must LOVE a good bash.
    He certainly loves everyone else’s cash.

    In honour of Pete and Sam and I-Betty and all the enturbulators who are acting as reception committee at Stain Downhill, Most Grimstead tomorrow,

    30 definitions of IAS:

    Instant Allergy to Sanity
    I Abhor Science
    Ill-Argued Speculation
    Intense All-encompassing Sleaziness
    Immature Adolescent Senselessness
    Imbecilic Apopleptic Screamers
    Ill Anal-retentive Scant-brains
    Ill-mannered Arch Spivs
    Ill-read Abusive Solipsists
    Iffy Angsty Space-cadets
    Icky Addled Spin-Merchants
    Ignorant Android Slaves
    Improperly Anchored Space-cooties
    Imminently Abandoning Self-respect
    Imitative Abortive Spoutings
    Insipid Artless Sophists
    Inbred Anemic Skimmers
    Impotent Arrogant Spies
    Indecent Awful Spastics
    Icy Amoral Slimebags
    Infantile Alienating Soporifics
    Incontinent Asshole Sickos
    Inane Asinine Sycophants
    Insane Appalling Sewer-rats
    Irate Avenging Scum
    Irreligious Asswiping Scammers
    Importuning Aggressive Spelunkers
    Indecent Angry Slipperiness
    Ideal Apostles of Stupidity
    It’s All a Scam

    and, in case we get a flat, we should have a spare in the trunk:

    Inclined Always to Steal

  • DeElizabethan

    Mike Rinder spells it out extremely well in his affidavit. It seems clear enough for a judge to see that a person can’t get any money back this way.

  • Baby

    Just a quick note.. Going on Vacation.. Woo Hoo.. see you guys in 2 weeks. Hold down the fort. I will try to get on, but will be fighting with teenagers over their computers..

    Bring this cult down.. Love Baby

    • Ardent

      Have a great time, baby.

      • Baby

        Thanks Columbo.. I can’t wait to see my babies.. I am just going to be in Mimi mood the entire time..NO DRAMA..

    • Sir_Real

      The Bunker trumps anything those teenagers want to look at! Have yourself a blast!

      • Baby

        I keep tellin that to them Sir! ha.. I will. I gotta lot to catch up on.

    • DeElizabethan

      Have a good trip Baby. We will miss you a lot. Maybe you can pop in on occasion and if not, we will be here for ya on return. Have some fun too.

    • Vaquera

      I’m marking on my calendar: two weeks from tomorrow (giving you 24 hours for reality re-entry) “Baby’s Back in Blog!”

    • Missionary Kid

      We’ll be looking for your return. I’m hoping some massive Co$ fails happen while you’re gone.

    • NOLAGirl

      Have fun Baby! We will miss you. 🙂

    • Drat

      Enjoy your scientology detox 🙂

    • Baby

      IF I don’t answer you guys..I am busy doing laundry and packing..and cleaning the house..Mr. Baby’s son will be taking my place here.. So changing sheets and shit. Busy..busy..Haven’t been able to do anything with this freakin ear infection..errgh..

      All better now.. ( 85% ) so thanks everyone..love you..Not ignoring you.. Just busy.. xox This place better be cleaned up when I get back ( I mean the Bunker) ha

      • beauty for ashes

        soooooo glad to hear you’re better! it clears up quickly when they figure it out ! have a great time on your vacation!

      • Robert Eckert

        Get 15% better!

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Okay baby, we will bring this cult down while you are gone. Two weeks! That is a bit of an accelerated timeline though, hm… Anyway have a great time and we will miss you!

    • Robert Eckert
      • Baby

        Took a quick break and found this hilarious song in my e mail..awwww thanks Robert..You are so sweet ( I promise I won’t tell anyone! )

  • Anonymous

    It has been noted before but needs repeating: In Scientology “ethics” has an opposite meaning to that which the general public understands.

    The (western) general public understanding of “ethics” is usually along these concepts from the Oxford Dictionary:

    “Schools of ethics in Western philosophy can be divided, very roughly, into three sorts. The first, drawing on the work of Aristotle, holds that the virtues (such as justice, charity, and generosity) are dispositions to act in ways that benefit both the person possessing them and that person’s society. The second, defended particularly by Kant, makes the concept of duty central to morality: humans are bound, from a knowledge of their duty as rational beings, to obey the categorical imperative to respect other rational beings. Thirdly, utilitarianism asserts that the guiding principle of conduct should be the greatest happiness or benefit of the greatest number.”

    There are miscellaneous aspects of the above that are referenced in Scientology, usually to gain “agreement” from someone to “handle” their conduct, but the fundamental definition of “ethics” that is in daily practice by senior church management is these exact words below from L. Ron Hubbard from the Scientology Admin Dictionary:

    4. the purpose of ethics is to remove counter intentions from the environment. And having accomplished that the purpose becomes to remove other intentionedness from the environment.
    (HCO PL 18 Jun 68)

    It should be understood that “counter intention” in Scientology is:

    “Counterintention means a determination to follow a goal which is in direct conflict with that known to be the goal of the originator and the goals of the group (either a big goal or a little one).”
    (BPL 10 Nov 73 II)

    Thus, absolute dedication to and blind obedience to the “tech” and “policy” of Scientology, is “ethical” and anything that hinders that obedience is “unethical.” This mindset justifies all many of treachery employed by the church in it’s “Fair Game” activities and allows those who perpetrate such treachery to think of themselves as “ethical.”

    Since L. Ron Hubbard was “Source” he was the final arbiter of what was “ethical in Scientology. Miscavige recognized this, appointed himself as COB RTC, and put all the trademarks and copyrights previously held by “Source” into the possession of RTC, thus effectively made himself “Source” by default.

    Thus at a 25,000 foot level view “ethical conduct” in Scientology is whatever Miscavige says it is, and he says so via his “command intention.”

    This is the deliberately confusing nonsense that is used to convince ordinary Scientologists (who for the most part are unaware of the atrocities committed by the church) to defend the organization and believe that by doing so they are behaving “ethically.”

    This is a seriously evil bit of duplicity and is at the core of the answer to the question “Why do Scientologists continue to support that crazy cult?”

    The craziness is only visible from outside at a distance. From inside, that same crazy is “ethical.”

    The resulting history of atrocities speaks for itself.

    • pluvo

      Excellent explanation. Thank you.

    • Cosmo Pidgeon

      Anon!…very well put.

    • Ardent

      Brilliantly put as always, Anon. Thanks.

  • Next time you talk to a Scientologist, tell them it’s public knowledge that they are being funded by big pharma so they are full of shit.

    • DeElizabethan

      Good point Derek.

    • Missionary Kid

      Best laugh of the day — and true.

    • Ardent

      The irony is delicious.

  • DeElizabethan

    Karen, another excellent video, thank you. A good warning to any people wanting to participate with this dangerous cult. They are also known to twist an innocent truth to a lie, for their advantage.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    Red-X Red-X Red-X

    El Wretch said “Money is an idea, backed by confidence.”
    In $cientology, however, it should really be:
    “Money is ideal, backed by a confidence trick.”

    Stop the clam spam scam here:
    https://whyweprotest.net/threads/taking-down-co-on-craigslist-co-ads-on-craigslist.113779/page-116#post-2490417

    Dismal Miscreant has a new movie coming out.
    It’s nice to see he’s planning for life after $cientology.

  • Real actual religions and real actual churches have actual documents, they would have been able to comply with the Judge’s order. These filthy insane crooks don’t have any of that, obviously, so they tried to commit more fraud on the court. Mike Rinder underscored that fact perfectly and I hope that the Judge kicks some clam ass.

    Um. Do clams have asses?

    • Ardent

      Yeah, they do. Strange to imagine, though.

      • Robert Eckert

        I was just reading an article on metaphorical usages of words in various languages and how what seems common-sensical to one cultural group may be reversed in another (for example, in some languages the past is “in front” of you and the future “behind” you, because you can see the past, not the future) and one example was that in Sumerian, canals had “mouths” and “tails”, but the Sumerian mouths “decently drank in the water, not what our rivers’ mouths do”.

    • Sir_Real

      Clams ARE asses.

  • Mark

    I wonder what’s up with this SP’s not being fair-gamed recently business that Karen mentions in her video? Jon Atack said much the same in his all-too-brief interview in the otherwise slipshod VICE article… http://tonyortega.org/2014/10/03/what-vice-magazine-got-wrong-about-scientology-in-the-uk/ …the nuisances he has had to endure for years seem to have tailed off a lot lately.

    Are certain SP’s becoming un-untouchable as part of some perverse charm-offensive, or is this yet more indirect evidence that Shortarse is finally running short of money to fund his OSA thugs and hire PI’s? Either way, Karen’s going to let us know the instant any trouble starts up again!

    • Ardent

      That strikes me as a really good point, Mark. One wonders. I have a hope – no as much a feeling as a hope – that all this publicity (and I wish there were more) is cramping Napoleon’s style. Your comment raises a fascinating line of questioning. I doubt money is an issue, unless so much is sunk in real estate that he is afraid to sell in case the cult looks bad as a result? I have no idea how much liquid assets the cult has.

      EDIT: Grammar

      • Mark

        I should also have mentioned the sudden implosion of the Big Blue LA orgs, with the sacking of all those (paid, however meanly) staff and their replacement with (unpaid) Sea Org serfs, as another indicator of financial troubles. Selling off any property-holdings—even the decrepit and unrestored projected Idle Morgues—would mean Miscavige’s jig is up with the clams and especially the whales, as the only remaining source of income (Narconon now being dead in the water, of course). I still suspect the recent onset of huge legal bills means that for the first time in years the cult is actually losing funds.

        • Missionary Kid

          I don’t think he’s gonna sell off any properties for a while. He’s got a lotta cash left, but it’s being spread thin.

        • TheRupture

          The cult is hemorrhaged out. Miscavige’s retirement fund, however, is swimming in cash. The whales are paying rent and utilities and buying renovations and office furniture for the cult. Why should Miscavige drop a dime on this scam as long as he still has enough dupes to fund it? OPM. It’s the American way.

          • Mark

            Maybe it’s the retirement fund/IAS war-chest he’s having to spend? I really, really hope so.

            • TheRupture

              True, a billion dollars just doesn’t go as far as it used to.

    • Missionary Kid

      IMO, he isn’t running short of money, but he’s cheap and he has a lot of other things to occupy his limite attention span, (court cases) as well as a shrinking flock.

    • It’s wrong any way, Jamie DeWolf has been racketeered against in Fair Game.

      • Mark

        How long ago?

  • Ardent

    Mike Rinder is one of the most interesting personalities to blow from the cult that I can think of. He has a particular and extraordinarily full view of the workings of the scam, and as attested to in his affidavit, is in fact the author of some pretty damning cult policies. I admire him very much, despite his ignoble past behaviour, primarily because he does appear to be earnestly trying to make up for the past. He seems intelligent and very acute, unlike certain high-echelon persons still festering within the gilded wall of the palace. I tip my hat to Mr. Rinder, and express gratitude that he is supporting, in real terms, the Garcias, who were so terribly conned.

    • April

      I think you probably meant to say astute rather than acute?

    • I have yet to see a full explanation from him on the Lisa McPherson murder, or an explanation from him on Robert Minton’s meeting at Flag which brought Mr. Minton’s human rights work to an abrupt end.

  • Tony Ortega
    • Ardent

      Interesting! Thanks, Tony.

      • NOLAGirl

        Dave is going to have some unhappy whales in his circus tent this weekend. 🙂

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          Oh, how I long for a whale uprising.

      • Graham

        Interesting’s one word for it. I’d say shocking. It seems to confirm the worst of yesterday’s speculations. The poor kid needs professional help and instead is being passed around like a sack of unwanted potatoes.

        • TheRupture

          Just one question:
          Are the parameters of child neglect and abandonment different for billionaires?

          Because I’ve seen and read about many a parent who is now behind bars for exactly this kind of despicable activity. And from Shelley’s detailed posting, the list of accomplices enabling this dismissal of duty is a never ending, high turnover list.

          http://www.myflfamilies.com/service-programs/abuse-hotline

        • BosonStark

          One reason they probably had to get the kid far away was that he is a resounding example of the failure of Scientology. Not even the wealthiest member of the cult could get the auditing for him, with engrams removed, BT clusters neutralized, or vitamins restored, according to Hubbard’s claptrap, to help this child.

          He might do very well on Ritalin, but they can’t even think that. Instead, it is going to be 24 hour monitoring until he’s an adult.

          For those saying this is like Perkins, Jeremy was schizophrenic, and it is very rare for that disease to manifest in children the age of V.

          • Missionary Kid

            Excellent points. His problems could be just an attachment disorder that has been exacerbated by accommodation and a lack of direct involvement by the parent figures. I’m wondering if the Dugans even communicate with the kid.

            The home he’s in is simply an extension of what he was raised in. The tech makes severe mental problems worse.

            • TheRupture

              There are many and complex causes of violent behavior in children. When a teenager is threatening to harm others on a regular basis he needs immediate intervention by trained professionals. He’s been thrown into a pool of former GO/OSA goons and desperate, circling the drain Scientology fanatics all complete strangers to him and all with $$$ signs in their eyes when they look his way. I can see No possibility that this boy is going to react better, calmer, saner in this scenario. Hell, I wouldn’t as an adult.

              Yesterday I thought that since Miscavige shut the door tight on the slightest signs of mental or physical illness at Flag since Lisa McPherson, South Africa is about as far away from his precious behind as he could get his most major free cash donor and his annoying little “problem”.

            • Missionary Kid

              I agree completely. Co$ is really anti-mental health.

            • TheRupture

              Scientology is anti human!

            • Missionary Kid

              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    • Chee Chalker

      This situation reminds me of the Jeremy Perkins fiasco (which replayed on ID Discovery channel last night). This child is in such obvious need of professional psychiatric care, so what do his parents do? Hide him in South Africa with people who have no child care experience, let alone experience with a troubled child. It’s not a stretch to predict the outcome of this situation. I hope the kid gets the help he despartely needs.

    • Bavarian Rage

      Here’s the missing piece. Thank you this important link, though heartbreaking from every angle.

    • Missionary Kid

      My first thought is that this is a serial killer in the making. I don’t know if he hears voices like Jeremy Perkins, but the fact that he still makes death threats at his age is a big red flag.

      LRH tech doesn’t work, and this is a prime illustration. The person who’s the victim here is the kid, and in the future, his victims.

      LRH was profoundly ignorant of psychology, and he aligned his theories of childhood psychology with that of centuries past. This is the horrible result, and it only will get worse, with minders who have an economic incentive to mistreat (as in misdiagnose) his problems with the wrong approach.

      I hope the Daily Mail picks this one up in time for the meeting at Silent Hill. Shining the light on the cockroaches of Co$ will cause them to hide. It would be a great footnuke to have the article come out when the Dugans are in Britain.

      • “LRH was profoundly ignorant of psychology”

        Hypnotists seldome are ignorant of the minds processes, years before Psychology, ever since time exists or rather manexisted, the Hypnotist played around with peoples minds.

        -Ron

        http://www.hermes-press.com/suggestion2.jpg

      • Joe Hurtado

        I tweeted mailonline with a link to the story yesterday. It’s perfect grist for their scandal mill. And now with more revelations about the nature of the behavioral and emotional problems, it becomes more scandalous. Neglected or victimized children seem to be a specialty of theirs.

        • Missionary Kid

          I hope it brings results. Thanks.

    • Missionary Kid

      Thank you, Tony. This is indeed, sad.

    • Sid

      The more we find out on this the worse it is.

      • Observer

        Yep. It’s getting more and more difficult to give the Duggans even the tiniest benefit of the doubt.

        • Vaquera

          Shelley is quoted @ backincomm:

          “Junior was not the only Duggan child that had been sent to South Africa – one had also been sent to live with OT8 Heidi Wolfaardt, another was somewhere else.”

          Am I correctly understanding that Bob and Trish Duggan have sent THREE of their children away??!! That is one f-ed up Brady Bunch.

          • Tony Ortega

            No, that’s incorrect. Only two.

            • Vaquera

              Thank you for the clarification.

    • Couch_Incident

      Sad. Makes me wonder if the kid isn’t suffering from Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) which is found in adopted kids with traumatic and/or neglectful early childhoods.

  • Tony Ortega
  • nottrue

    Duggan the child dumper..That child needs proper medical attention not that fucking scientology quackery. He needs love and care not auditing

    • Missionary Kid

      IMO, it will only exacerbate his problems.

  • Sid

    Johnson & Johnson $975 million —> Pharmacyclics —-> Duggan (biggest donator to) —-> Scientology.

  • Jgg2012

    Re Rinder: Scientology basically said that Comm Ev rules would apply to an arbitration hearing if such a hearing was ever held. Isn’t that good enough to comply with Judge Whittemore’s order? Oh, wait, there’s never been an arbitration hearing, never mind…

    • TheRupture

      And the Comm Ev rules explicitly state that process is not to be used for refunds, so there’s that too.

  • valshifter

    If Hubbard intended to have an arbitration system in place he would have created it himself since he is known for selfishly accredit everything scientology to himself weather invented by him or by somebody else, but the Arbitration system was created by Rinder so obviously it has to be a false pretense by the cult.

  • Hamtaro

    I don’t know what DM originally planned to have for dinner tonight, but it appears that Messrs. Ortega and Rinder decided to serve him an open faced shit sandwich with a side order of sleazy financial shenanigans.

    Bon Appétit COB!

    • Missionary Kid

      IMO, he’ll only get worried when or if this hits the mainstream press.

      • TheRupture

        Isn’t John Sweeney a free agent roving reporter in those parts?

        • Missionary Kid

          The problem is, who’s going to publish it?

          • TheRupture

            You think the Daily Mail would turn this one down? Maybe he could coordinate a piece with Joe Childs. Mr Childs still has a toe in the Times door, no? A DailyMail/TampaTimes dual piece. That would really be something. I am only thinking of how this boy might get help despite Scientologists’ insanity or Mr. Duggan’s billions. And there are other children in that same family too to think about.

            Maybe it would even wake him up to the fact that he is supporting an organization that abuses and uses children all the time and maybe turn this around to a real success — expose the child abuse and neglect and human rights violations behind the closed doors.

            • Missionary Kid

              One can hope.

            • CherryPitz

              The Daily Mail by Radiohead

              The Moonies are up on a mountain
              The lunatics have taken
              Over the asylum
              Waiting on the rapture

              Singing: “We’re here
              To keep your prices down
              Feed you to the hounds
              To the ‘Daily Mail’
              Together, together.”

              You made a pig’s ear
              You made a mistake
              Paid off security
              and got through the gate
              You got away with it
              But we lie in wait

              Hey, hey, hey…

              Where’s the truth?
              What’s the use
              In hang around?
              Lost and found

              With your head
              In the sand
              Fat chance
              No plan

              No regard
              For human life
              Keep time
              You’ve no right

              Fastened, loose
              You win and lose
              Jump the queue
              Go back again

              President
              For life
              Love of all
              The flies in the sky

              The beasts of the Earth
              The fish in the sea
              Have lost command

              Huh, huh, huh…

              http://youtu.be/McuHVXgR8dA    ;

          • flyonthewall

            Part of me thinks that scientology (absent celebrities) is to the mainstream media what the JFK assasination is to serious scholars. No one wants to touch it for fear of being branded a crank

            • Missionary Kid

              A profound difference is that the JFK assassination affected a nation, yet Co$ affects relatively few, and is shrinking.

              Writing about $cientology can be like picking up dog shit: it’s necessary, but it stinks.

            • Vaquera

              By your description, it’s sounds like a perfect fit for TMZ. Yes, it’s a sensationalized gossip site, but lately they’ve been making some big waves. I realize they aren’t the NYT, however they make a big-ass splash, their headlines are picked up by lots of other sources for dissemination and they don’t care if they are labeled cranks. #NFL

            • Missionary Kid

              Anything that raises the profile of the criminal, unethical, destructive cult, is a good thing. TMZ will have to make the Dugans into celebrities first before they cover this.

            • Vaquera

              Scientology is a big part of this story and, for TMZ, celebrities are a big part of $ci-la-la-land. Package deal.

            • Missionary Kid

              All they need to do is play up the billionaire angle.

            • flyonthewall

              Well without dedicated journalists and brave critics Scientology’s corrupting influence and reach may have been much stronger. Idk about your analogy, it’s a fascinating story to me, I can see how a journalist like Tony would be attracted to it. If it wasn’t exciting or enjoyable he wouldn’t do it. He at least wouldn’t have stuck with it so long.

            • Missionary Kid

              Compared to the rest of the world, we’re small potatoes. The story, though, is fascinating.

            • Anonymous

              Interesting observation.

              Labeling someone a “crank” is a long used misdirection tactic employed by conspirators that sense someone is closing in on the truth about their hidden actions.

              Unfortunately, there are also actual cranks who are just crazy and think everything is a conspiracy.

              Sorting out one type of crank from another is a forever endeavor. And a great place for those with evil intentions to hide.

            • flyonthewall

              Re JFK it’s prob a mix of black PR by some intel agency and the resulting self censorship by academia (that persists to this day) that prevents investigation of that subject.
              Re Scientology, nowadays I just don’t think the public has an interest in it except when celebrities are involved. Mainstream media has done it, Anderson Cooper, New Yorker, Tampa Bay Times but it’s the nature of the media to not stick with a story for very long. It’s like well we covered that, now lets move to the next flavor of the week.
              Sure, Scientology tries to black PR journalists and label them cranks or bigots but no one pays them any mind.
              In the past you could say it was fear of litigation that caused media to ignore scientology but that’s not really applicable anymore.
              In the end, it’s more likely that market driven self-censorship is the real culprit of the media ignoring scientology. You’d think with juicy stories like forced abortion and fraud there would be more interest. Thankfully we have someone like Tony that is willing to stick with a story for the long haul instead of just a quick dip. I hope that he is respected by his colleagues, he certainly earns it.

            • LHS

              Whenever I see Anderson Cooper in a disaster zone or a war zone or anywhere dangerous, I think, “Well, he did a critical report on Scientology, so this place probably doesn’t faze him at all.”

            • Anonymous

              Agree with your above comments about Tony and his work.

              There are many factors in play regarding how Scientology is covered / portrayed in various media, most of which are not monolithic in the way they report.

              The most predictable actor in all of this is the church…which is why as it is obviously in serious decline, it continues to shout to a largely absent audience about it’s great “expansion.”

            • daytoncapri

              Janet Reitman, Lawrence Wright and more. Not crank brands.

  • flyonthewall

    Did ya’ll read this on the backincomm blog? Holy shit! Lots of questions answered and backstory given on Tony’s article yesterday on the weird adoption by Duggan and the South African connection – http://backincomm.wordpress.com/2014/10/16/the-duggans-hogarths-a-child-and-ideal-orgs/

    • Missionary Kid

      Tony referenced it an hour ago. Thanks for reminding everyone again.

      • flyonthewall

        oops, I have a bad habit of not checking comment history before posting. Thnx for being cool about it

        • Missionary Kid

          It’s an item that needs to be read. The more entries that point to it, the more people become aware of the shitty results that the “tech” and LRH’s asinine brain farts bring about.

          • flyonthewall

            It reminded me of this story a lot – http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1982326,00.html . But now it has a scientology twist, which inevitably makes everything weirded and more scandalous 🙂

            • Missionary Kid

              It also shows how incapable $cientology is of handling serious mental problems.

            • Todd Tomorrow

              Sounds like the last thing this kid needs is auditing. Sounds to me that he needed stable parents to love and care for him. Some medications, as well, might quell the evil theatens that course through his blood. Seriously, I’d hate to see what treatments they have designed to help him. I cringe at the thought of him being locked in basement’s on, “Baby Watch.”,day after day. Mentally ill people in the US are under served,wonder what, S. Africa is like. And adding the quackery of $cientology to the picture is frightening.

            • Missionary Kid

              $cientology only increases severe mental illness IMO.

            • TheRupture

              He’s out in the wilds of South Africa. Isolation should be no problem. I mentioned yesterday I thought the only auditing that would remotely be allowed, even by the most fanatical regges, is the Introspection Rundown. Being on the outskirts of deserts or jungles with no one around would fit the bill. They’ll probably try an unregulated regimen of all kinds of supplements and goo and liquid magic drinks and oils. I just wonder if he’ll access to phones or the internet. Ordinarily that would not be allowed.

            • LHS

              “Some medications, as well, might quell the evil thetans that course through his blood.”

              When young people exhibit symptoms of mental illness, it is often difficult to get a clear diagnosis and find the right medication and/or therapy that will help. But it breaks my heart that no one is even TRYING with this kid.

    • Jimmy3

      Hogarth.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    The flensing and rendering of the whales in $cientology seems to permit any and all abominations.

    The follow-up to yesterday’s story, about Bob and Trish Duggan and their farmed-out kids, which has shown up in Mike Rinder’s blog and the South African blog leaves me with a foul taste in my mouth.
    http://www.mikerindersblog.org/scientology-whale-horror-story/
    http://backincomm.wordpress.com/2014/10/16/the-duggans-hogarths-a-child-and-ideal-orgs/

    Tony spoke of Trish Duggan’s work as being “haunting”, yesterday.
    It’s haunting alright, just not the blue glass work.
    The arrogance and depravity of uber-rich spoiled selfish idiots tends to do that.
    This kid need help, the kind of help $cientology will never be able to provide as it is help $cientology considers anathema.

    Bob Duggan and his wife should go for an introspection rundown.
    Instead of writing checks for empty Idle Morgues in SA, they need a reality check.
    $cientology: It is ALWAYS worse than you could ever imagine.

    The Pipsqueak Pope must be fuming with this series of leaks.
    His new role in “Lard of the Rings: Book IV
    the Internet Strikes Back”

  • Chee Chalker

    At least when the inevitable happens and this kid harms others and/or himself, the ‘mainstream media’ will be able to find out a lot with one quick Google search. The Duggans won’t be able to sit back and say “he was fine when he left Florida…something must have happened to him in South Africa!”. On that note, I hope the Hogwarts, (or whatever the name) realize they are being set up to take the fall for thia child’s behavior…..let’s just hope he doesn’t harm innocent people.

    • Missionary Kid

      Unfortunately, you’re probably right.

      Co$ will say that the tech wasn’t applied correctly. It’s never their fault.

  • Todd Tomorrow

    I wonder why $cientology doesn’t realize,”they brought this in.”,themselves.

    • Missionary Kid

      My thought exactly.

    • flyonthewall

      b/c Scientology is Hubbard’s alter ego and as the Game Maker, Scientology (Hubbard) is above the rules it (he) writes for the players

    • Sid

      If something bad happens to Scientology it is because of SPs and the SPs will eventually pull something bad in as a motivator. Scientology itself doesn’t pull things in because it is perfect. Only you SPs pull bad shit in. So go write up your overts and send them up to IJC Ellis. He’s waiting for them right now.

      • TheRupture

        Unless you’re one of the few “unlikely”, like anyone with the initials DM, or fat portfolios under any name.

    • sookiesookie

      Pete Griffiths wonders too…

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVldd5R7I-E

      • Qbird

        There you are Sookiesookie!
        You quiet one you – you put up a nice vid… TKS! =)

        • sookiesookie

          Hola, Qbird. Here’s the embarrassing reason I’m quiet: I’ve never Disqus’d before and can’t figure out a way to be active on the current day’s post, but still not miss any of the comments made for that day. If I close my laptop, I stop getting the “five new comments above” type alerts, and end up having to scroll around for the “show new reply” notes. Bah.

          So I’m normally a day behind. I’m still new enough to $CN-watching that I don’t want to miss all the valuable references that show up in the comment threads. If anyone can throw me some pro-tips on how to function within Disqus and still keep up with all the current comments, I’ll be forever grateful.

          • Jimmy3

            The most informative, most insightful and funniest comments usually float to the top, and you can sort by “best” to read them. The meat of the discussion on each day’s topic is usually found in those threads. Sort by “newest” to read the newer posts, obviously.

            But the best advice I can give is to not worry so much about keeping up with every single comment. It’s hard to miss the most important comments, as the readers here do a great job of up-voting them to the top. So maybe alternate between browsing ‘best’ and ‘newest’, collapse threads as you’re done reading/skimming them, and just post what you have to say whenever and wherever you feel like you can add to the discussion. No need to overthink it.

            • sookiesookie

              Thanks, Jimmy3, that sounds like good advice. I’ll give it a go. (“No need to overthink it” is especially sage, and applicable to more of my life than just Disqus, believe me.)
              BTW, I very much enjoy the sense of humor you bring to discussions here — you’ve given me some good “heh”s during my steep learning curve. 🙂

          • Qbird

            Hola back atcha Sookie! I am in the same boat as you regards Disqus – very often for me too — Bah! & boo, hiss, tomatoes too! (me however, I am technologically challenged!) Ah well, c’est la vie. So it is, I am always a bit behind too… no matter. No worry really.
            As J3Xs says, don’t worry too much about it. I do as he suggests myself, I use the ‘sort by’ buttons to maneuver around. Because I have a slow internet connection, I do not receive real-time comments when on TO’s site/article of the day — but if I go to that article through Disqus, I can catch some of these active conversations as they occur, which is fun, yes?!
            I’ve been wondering about you for a while now as I have felt your upvotes.
            Welcome to the Bunker.

            • sookiesookie

              Sorry to keep you in suspense, Qbird! I think if I’d had any kind of interesting story, I would have tried to introduce myself to the Bunker-at-large, but I’m just a never-in who read Wright’s book earlier this year, followed up on sites and videos that he mentioned, had my mind blown by something new every single day for a while, and finally settled down enough to start following Tony’s site daily a couple months ago.
              At first, I was discovering some new fact every two minutes, 100x a day; now I discover something new about every half-hour or so… I guess that means I’m starting to get a handle on it? There is SO MUCH out there!
              Anyway, you and the other Bunkerites throw so much insight, explanation and memory into the mix, along with personal sagas, obscure references, and citations to written works (plus groovy music and shoops) that I’ve really enjoyed just soaking it up and upvoting all the rich commentary. Thank you very much for the welcome. 🙂

  • Suppressive Tomato

    I was really hoping for some OSA trolls today, considering the magnitude of this story and that it’s stat day. But it’s almost 2 PST and nothing! I guess COB’s LA “reorg” has really enturbulated the scene!

    • Missionary Kid

      They’re not going to appear in a forum that features stories about their losses as well as their lousy mistreatment of a kid.

    • TheRupture

      They’re all too busy bending over or kneeling down. Just a guess.

      • Suppressive Tomato

        But all they have to do is copy and paste from this totally legit website that OSA had nothing to do with: http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/anti-religious-extremists/mike-rinder/

        • And run the risk of reading something truthful here?! David won’t allow that.

        • Mark Foster

          Check out the ¨contact us¨ page; there´s no way to contact them! So much for communication being the universal solvent.

          • NOLAGirl

            Their confront is on the fritz. 🙂

    • Alas there aren’t any Scientology trolls left other than the occasional dimwitted spokesclam, it seems the crooks have run all out of customers willing to dumbfuck for us.

  • Pierrot

    RED X – RED X

    meantime back in co$land they have been busy busy.
    visit the RedX spreadsheet to check the catch for the 4:30pm trawl.
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-Kvg78kCcvo5gL7UfPcmhmbsagTNtdj0y2LAiHVFrCU/pubhtml

    Ty Dodo and Artist

  • Captain Howdy

    Forget it, Bunkerites, it’s Duggantown.

    • TheRupture

      Damn. You’re probably right. If the details are accurate, this boy has been acting out like this for years. He is not one of those isolated cadets. He’s gone to non Scientology schools per one report as well as had access and spent time with non member friends and able to hang out at their homes.

      In today’s climate, imagine a teacher, or a child, or adult (non Scientologist,) observing a young boy acting violently and threatening to stab someone. Would they do nothing or flash on horror headlines of recent years where cries for help were ignored resulting in avoidable deaths and injuries at schools and playgrounds?

      There’s another factor I thought of in the last hour and that is the Florida Baker Act. It’s still in force and while it’s only a 72 hour hold, imagine what that child might have had to say about home life. In fact now I find it hard to believe that some parent or teacher, maybe more than one, hasn’t made inquiries or tentative reports in the past. We’ve seen how fast items and people and little “problems” can be disappeared with a billion dollar magic wand. I can still hope, but I’m not betting against the house.

    • Science Doc

      She’s my daughter, she’s my sister, she’s my daughter, she’s my sister.

  • aquaclara

    Just got done reading both Mike’s latest post as well as the backincom post Tony added a little while ago, adding even more details to yesterday’s stories.

    Life as a Duggan child must be hell. It sounds as though one child had some issues which NORMAL people would take care of through proper medical advice. Instead, Mr. and Mrs. Whale Duggan arrange to pay strangers to take their child off to South Africa. And this is apparently not the first child this has happened to. I saw references to two others.

    I simply cannot imagine how this could be allowed. And having a tough time, too, imagining the other children, who, if they are still at that place they were told was home, living in desperate fear that they will be tossed off, too.

    It is crushing beyond belief.

    • Jimmy3

      I’d be so pissed if I were homeless and some billionaire came around and adopted me. Like, what the hell, man? I just like sleeping on the beach, I don’t want to own property on it.

    • Captain Howdy

      I’m surprised they just didn’t build a special room in a dark corner of the mansion where they could keep the boy under lock & key and slide his meals under the door like all the best families use to do back in the day.

      • Vaquera

        Flowers in the Attic

        • Captain Howdy

          Jane Eyre.

      • TheRupture

        Okay, that made me laugh. But I didn’t Want to. Also, it’s on Belleair Beach. There are no dark corners.

        • Captain Howdy

          FACT..there’s always dark corners.

          http://youtu.be/4-X9vkRpeR8

          • TheRupture

            Well, it’s the Poppies. I imagine they saw all kinds of things lurking in the corners.

            • Espiando

              This, more than anything else, explains the musical abortion that was “Seasons In The Sun” (performed by Poppy Family member Terry Jacks).

            • Jimmy3

              Damn, you must really hate that song.

            • Captain Howdy

              You know it, You love it..Come on, E..Sing it!

              http://youtu.be/kO4BF67pvsc

      • Jimmy3

        Reminds me of the 3rd and 4th grade. Only it wasn’t a mansion and my parents couldn’t afford a fancy meal slot, so I ate only foods that could fit under the door. I ate a LOT of pop tarts in the 3rd and 4th grade.

    • Having money makes everything allowed.

      • trunklesstree

        No, being a Scientologist or an Ex Scientologist makes everything allowed. How dare they out these poor children.

        • Observer

          So we should sit back and keep our mouths shut so the abuse can continue?

          • trunklesstree

            Absolutely not, but I see on the SA blog that they are now naming the children.

            Other thing I noticed on that blog is that it is obviously perfectly normal while checking a house, to browse through someone else’s bank records.

            And on here, before it was deleted, a mother who gave her own young child up to Scientology thought it necessary to post disturbing information on one of the kids. And then when deleted, posts to tell everyone where to go read it. I hate Scientologists. Ex Scientologists included. Scum of the earth.

            • Just Dee

              Trunkless, If you don’t mind my asking…. are you an ex?

            • Captain Howdy

              From reading it’s previous comments, Trunkless appears to be a Clearwater local who’s kinda angry. If true, I can’t say I blame them.

            • Jimmy3

              I think it’s a female human.

            • trunklesstree

              Yeah, and I’m pissed. Tommy boy pissed.

            • trunklesstree

              No I am not. But I have lived in Clearwater for over 30 years and have known public who left, sea org who left, and public who are still in. And I personally know the people who we are gossiping about and I am taking it personally. I know these boys. These boys have hung out with my kids. These boys are my kids’ friends.

              These kids were doomed from their first breath. I am choosing to look at the positive. Trish gave these kids food, shelter, and supervision during their young years, albeit from clams. Would I have preferred all their kids go to other homes than be adopted by the Duggans? Hell yes! But in America, their being scienos, can not be a block in being able to adopt. It is what it is. Being BATSHIT CRAZY is allowed. And there is an abundance of BATSHIT people in Pinellas County.

            • Captain Howdy

              The People of Clearwater should have enlisted the aid of the Dixie Mafia or even the KKK to get the cult out of Clearwater back in the day. Now. it’s too late for that.

            • Just Dee

              Hey, thanks for answering. It did seem like it’s personal. I understand the frustration now. It seemed personal but I wasn’t sure.

            • daytoncapri

              Normal-person Clearwater-pissed is a special case. You see things the rest of us don’t.

            • beauty for ashes

              it must be really hard to know these children, and to hear people casually talking about them on some website. I understand your frustration.
              I only hope that there are more people like you that are genuinely offended and outraged that can act as advocates for these children.
              and yes most of florida is batshit crazy!

            • Jimmy3

              I don’t see where they’re named on the SA blog… One Duggan kid is mentioned as listed on the org flyer, but it’s not one of the kids involved in this story.

            • daytoncapri

              Kim – is that you?

            • daytoncapri

              Really.

              Hmmm…do you hate the children who were born and raised in Scientology? Those that grew up and escaped? They are Exes.

              Hmmmm…
              you hate the adults who were duped and joined, and at great personal
              cost had escaped, some of them past iron bars in secured compounds?
              They are Exes.

              Some of us have totally separated ourselves from that thinking, never knowingly or actually committed any harm to anyone while in, and now work against $Scn. I dissauded a young women from taking a job in joining a scino-company. I talked her out of it after she accepted the position. Could you have been able to do so?

              “I hate Scientologists. Ex Scientologists included. Scum of the earth.”

              Really. Feel free to call me scum,

        • NOLAGirl

          They aren’t outing these poor children. They’re outing their spoiled, entitled adoptive parents and the greedy Scientologists in SA taking money for their bridge and their Idle Org to care for a child they’re clearly not equipped to care for.

          • trunklesstree

            So why do I see one of children’s names in the comments there? At least here people had the decency to call him “V”.

            • NOLAGirl

              So, say something to the people who said it. Go say something to the people at BackInComm. No one but the people who are saying it can answer your question.

        • daytoncapri

          I agree that outing the children is wrong, but whoa, you are painting with a really broad brush.

    • Vaquera

      I, also, thought that SA Shelley said there were three Duggan children who were sent away, but down thread Tony clarified that the correct number is two.

    • Artoo45

      Well, just look at Duggan’s websites and his facelifted, photoshopped visage. That’s some weapons-grade vanity. The man and his wife are very probably rather used to getting their way from the evidence available. Most über wealthy people become major narcissists or at the very least, terribly self-absorbed. Money warps and insulates. Start getting into the billions and the gravity well is crushing. Everyone “below” you on the socioeconomic ladder becomes suspect. Are they being nice to you for you, or because they want something? That, and you can pretty much buy your way out of anything short of terminal diseases.

      So, the puzzle is this, they do the seemingly altruistic thing and adopt all these children and what happens? They don’t behave perfectly? They make messes. They fight. They cry. They act out. Normally, when building a blended family, some time with a therapist for all the family members is a good idea. Ruh roh. No Duggan will ever fall into the clutches of an Evil Psych™.

      They have adolescing males who won’t behave and so they just ship the kid off to old fun bags and her raggy-craggy husband? That’s the solution? Oh, and here’s all the money you need to finish your orgs?

      Was this arranged? Have the South African couple done this routine before? Will the kid go back to the Duggan’s conditional embrace once he learns to “behave?”

      Enquiring minds want to know . . .

      • Captain Howdy

        Well, according to Ron your pod child is a fully formed Thetan trapped in a encumbering meat body and IT is merely something you have been randomly chosen to help raise like a tomato, so I’m surprised when I see people get shocked at how scilons relate to children.

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        Is it legal? Seems very very shady.

    • HillieOnTheBeach

      I haven’t kept up with comments for the past few days so it was probably mentioned already, but I thought Duggan specifying that Dsara* as his favorite name was especially cruel.

      *I assume she’s his natural child,but my point isn’t lessened even if she isn’t.

      • aquaclara

        I read somewhere that this was/is his sister’s name, too.

  • Once_Born

    Re yesterdays post: things were little better for kids in the glory days when Ron walked the Earth.

    Most of issue 39 of the “Journal of Scientology” https://mega.co.nz/#!NRAVTQYb!OcJVMiFb3CJ9j-laozkbUjaBhXNZGC9QCdLPuqIMm7A was taken up with Hubbard holding forth about raising children (when he wasn’t curing hospitalised 9 year-olds of septicaemia and babies of leukeamia).

    Would you believe a 12 year-old auditor? (image taken from page 6)

    More issues for download at http://scicrit.wordpress.com/2014/06/20/the-journal-of-scientology-issues-1-43-nearly-a-scientology-fanzine/

    • Eileen

      Last name Savant? Who fell for that one?

      • Once_Born

        Apparently, everyone in Phoenix Arizona for a Scientology ‘congress’ in 1955., when she was introduced (along with Hubbard’s children) to the assembled Scientologists (top of the right-hand column).
        http://www.aberree.com/scans/v01/v01no09/page0014.png

        • grundoon

          “Another highlight was when Ron quite unexpectedly and convincingly demonstrated his much talked of .45 one-shot technique by brandishing his revolver and shooting a blank into the floor. A mass exteriorization took place.”

          • Missionary Kid

            A mass exteriorization – everybody headed for the exits.

  • nottrue

    OT…..Media Mayhem…http://youtu.be/J_Gbkz0SNZI …..Mark Ebner

  • Science Doc

    I’ve been in a car all day. Anything happen on the blogs? Narconon Warner Springs still doesn’t have its Going Out of Business sign up. Maybe they think they will get to play Minority Report with the other cool kids in the Voice for Huge Manatees Club.

    • sookiesookie

      There’s this, from Mike’s blog

      http://www.mikerindersblog.org/scientology-whale-horror-story/

      giving his opinion on the backstory to yesterday’s bizarre SA saga, with a pointer to lots of deetz at the SA blog — fascinating and twisted reading (but then, what isn’t, when it comes to $CN?)…

    • Jgg2012

      Their legal bills are so high that they cannot afford a going out of business sign.

      • Missionary Kid

        One can hope.

        • Jgg2012

          Well, if not, The Ham just needs to file another 24 lawsuits or so.

  • Vanfan

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10204127329196573&set=a.2697382666876.134961.1025891506&type=1

    This just appeared on my FB timeline from a family member in Scientology. Talk about contradictions… How does this jive with the SP policy?

    • Captain Howdy

      This is what i got.
      ….

      • Jimmy3

        Cot damn that is suppressive.

    • aquaclara

      Did you take a screengrab of this? It’s not showing up. They might have taken it down, or it could just be me.

    • Observer

      They must have their privacy settings on Friends Only. Finally, a Scientologist with a clue!

    • Vanfan
      • nottrue

        Hubbard doen’t believe that…He’s lying to control…

        • Artoo45

          It’s an odd quote to see after all these years of researching the cult. Following their every inept public footbullet, reading Hubbard’s “work,” and reading all the biographies of him left me with one manor impression of him. He was terrified of emotions. When I write from his perspective in LRH: The Target 2 Chronicles, any emotion, and especially love, is a confusing terror to be avoided at all costs. I imagine that it seemed as though everone around him could love and he couldn’t. This would explain why he turned out the way he did even though he was the doted on golden child of his family.

    • daytoncapri

      Obviously, you are asking the right question. Very sad about that situation in your family. A posted meme seldom works as a form of dialogue, it strokes those who agree and dismays those who don’t, if they even make an effort to read the message. That being said, here’s another meme in response to Ron’s sweet wisdom. https://i.imgflip.com/7jca3.jpg

  • Science Doc

    Down thread a lot of folks were speculating that Davy will get bent over this Duggan (and if no one has done it yet I propose we call them the Dugongs, so they can support Voice for Huge Manatees) thing only if it is picked up by the mainstream media.

    I have a suggestion, or maybe just a thought experiment. Student-run, independent newspapers like the UC Santa Barbara Daily Nexus like deflating authority figures, especially when they are members of their Board of Trustees. Anyhow, don’t actually contact them anyone, because they would almost certainly run the story.

  • Frodis73

    Ok, between Tony, M Rinder & now the SA blog, I can’t believe somebody else hasn’t picked this story up–this is HUGE. I really hope it happens…I’m postulating my ass off over here.

    • Captain Howdy

      At first I read it as..”I’m posturing my ass off over here”

      • Frodis73

        Well, same thing when you really get down to it…

    • Science Doc

      I’ve never had postulating ass before but I’ve heard that it hurts and takes awhile to cure.

      • Frodis73

        It does hurt, but in my heart. lol.

  • BosonStark

    So Tom Cruise lets the Cherch do his wife search, and Duggan uses it for farming out his undesirable kids. Yes, it’s kind of weird.

    I don’t feel as enraged as most people though, because although I don’t know how the kids were treated in this billionaire’s house, it’s pretty charitable of them to have taken in this flock of kids. V was born to two homeless people, so scouring the planet for those at the top of the gene pool wasn’t a priority for the Duggans, as it could have been had they been less charitable.

    One blog from the lady in South Africa thought it was possible V was fostered, and not adopted. I don’t know what difference this would make.

    In Africa, there are children who are shunned because both their parents died from Ebola. So, I think sending a kid off who has a screw loose, and may be a tad homicidal, is not the worst thing they could have done, while paying well for his care/containment.

    Most billionaires probably would have had the kid institutionalized in some very high-class asylum, so he could be diagnosed and treated. If the kid stabbed one of his brothers or sisters (just a possibility), I can see why they wanted him out of the country.

    After Rosemary Kennedy had her lobotomy at age 23 — sister of JFK and Bobby, and with an IQ of 65 — because she started having mood swings and outbursts which were “inappropriate” in a family as well-behaved and high profile as the Kennedys, she was institutionalized for the rest of her life. She died at age 86. When she was young, she was a very happy and physically active child, specially schooled since she was several grades behind. After the lobotomy, she was incapacitated, incontinent, couldn’t walk, and had the mental age of a 2 year old. Family members rarely visited her, if at all.

    So, even wealthy people make some pretty bad mistakes, when in this case, they were just following the advice of the medical establishment. Scientology has made the Duggans terrified of psych drugs. It is one thing they’re pretty good at.

    • Missionary Kid

      The difference is that Rosemary Kennedy’s lobotomy happened over 60 years ago. Supposedly, they followed a doctor’s advice. Since then, there have been huge changes in the way that mental problems have been handled.

      Unfortunately, $cientology is stuck at about the same era of psychological treatment. While they decry the abuses that psychiatrists took part in, the great majority of those abuses took place when Hubbard started Dianetics. It’s a fake means of treating neurotic people and people who have been convinced that it is the way to happiness. When faced with serious psychological problems, none of Hubbards methods are capable of handling them, so, of course, like other problems that $cientology faces, they offloaded the child.

      • BosonStark

        The Kennedys’ remorse over the tragedy inspired them to start the Special Olympics. Maybe if a Duggan castoff leads to a tragedy, the Duggans will wake up and start the Special Scientology OT Olympics, where Scientologists will compete in telekinesis, KSW, feats of memory and parking place locating.

        • Missionary Kid

          Remorse in $cientology? You got a laugh out of me on that.

        • Captain Howdy

          I can tell you that in Massachusetts there are plenty of folks who think that the only thing really “wrong” with Rosemary was that she was a high spirited rebellious young woman and that Joe decided she needed some “calming down”.

          • BosonStark

            I don’t know about that but it says in wiki that Rosemary was under pressure from being in a family of super achievers, and that made her start to get upset, frustrated and throw tantrums. It probably would have done the same to me.

            • Captain Howdy

              The people outside the family that she grew up with said she didn’t seem “slow” or “retarded” to them.

            • Frodis73

              That’s the story I always heard too CH.

            • Robert Eckert

              Me three.

            • BosonStark

              I read the Sins of the Father, about the Kennedy family, but I don’t remember any of the details. I suppose it is a point of contention, this theory that she was closer to average and not retarded, and that her illness was depression.

          • beauty for ashes

            this story I have heard from my mother, who viewed it as a tragedy. she also said that rosemary was being promiscuous, at least in her father’s very catholic opinion. she does sound a bit manic, but noooo way did she deserve a lobotomy.

            • Captain Howdy

              Yea, the promiscuous aspect is something I heard also. My wife’s father was a prominent psych in MA. and other members of her family are/were involved in the mental health field and they use to talk about it over Thanksgiving dinners and such. There were also rumors of molestation as being the motive for the lobotomy.

            • TheRupture

              Fun Thanksgiving family dinner table conversations! I thought mine were bad, but it’s hard to top molested lobotomies over pumpkin whip cream.

            • beauty for ashes

              ugg, wave of nausea. I hope it is only a rumor.

            • Frodis73

              I have a hunch a lot of young, healthy (horny) young women ended up being lobotomized back then. I think she was a typical teen in a seriously successful family & her expressing normal teen rebellion & sexuality just kind of imploded. This is the era of handing out Valium to deal with women you know.

    • Chee Chalker

      I understand they are afraid of psychs and all that, but you would think that, at a minimum, they would try to find someone who had experience with kids. It sounds like these Hogwarts don’t have (and don’t necessarily want) any experience with kids, certainly not troubled kids. Joe Kennedy Sr. had Rosemary lobotomized without his wife’s knowledge. I don’t know that medical professionals advised him to do it, or he just made an executive decision.

      • BosonStark

        They trusted Mr. Miscabitch to find a suitable couple, just like Tom Cruise trusted him to find the next First Lady of Scientology, Katie Holmes. Holmes popped out a kid for him, probably one who will grow up thinking he’s a loon, but so far V hasn’t murdered anyone, so BIG WIN!

        • Missionary Kid

          I believe you meant “…hasn’t murdered anyone,”

          • BosonStark

            Right. It takes me after a minute to make corrections, but I do read my posts after I post them.

            • Missionary Kid

              Sometimes, I don’t, and people let me know.

            • BosonStark

              Yeah, I don’t mind. It was a embarrassing mistake.

        • TheRupture

          Now there’s the quintessential success story for Scientology’s Child Dianetics:

          “So far, he hasn’t murdered anyone.”

          • BosonStark

            You got it! You must be way up on the bridge, or across the bridge or whatever.

          • that got me thinkering…niblet was a semi-violent teen in $cientology….perhaps V is being seen as a future leader?? hell niblet is still semi-violent….

    • IL Luminacca

      all of this reminds me of Jon Ramsey

  • Vaquera

    Today I’ve been surfing and lurking $cio Org Facebook pages as well as $cientology’s tweets. Has anyone else, with this same affliction, noticed the sudden and numerous posts about “Family relationships routinely improve after one begins practicing Scientology,” and “The sweetness and love of a child is preserved only so long as he can exert his own self-determination,” and, finally, “Find out how to raise your children to become responsible, productive adults with the tools in this free course.” All three posts have a video link.

    Timing coincidence with Tony’s report yesterday & today’s posts by Rinder and BackinComm? I THINK NOT!!!!

    • NOLAGirl

      You took the words right off my keyboard, was just on Twitter and saw a bunch of tweets about kids from a few of their accounts. Hai OSA!! 🙂

      • Vaquera

        The same on the FB pages for Vegas, Portland, etc., which posted within 30-ish minutes of each other.

      • Vaquera

        Gosh darn it! The other reason for lurking was to find intel and photos from tonight’s big IAS event. I came up with nothing and got so frustrated until the lightbulb just now flickered on…..Today Is Thursday!!! What a knucklehead. I kept thinking it was Friday.
        Mr. Biloba. Paging Mr. Ginkgo Biloba.

        • Jimmy3

          thursday footbaw. thursday good. watches footbaw.

          • TheRupture

            Thursday night football is just going too far. Crawling back now.

            • Jimmy3

              What do you mean? It’s in Massachusetts.

            • TheRupture

              So if it’s Thursday, it ‘s not Massachusetts. Now I understand. Okay, past bedtime.

            • Vaquera

              Night. “Rest well and dream of large women.”

            • beauty for ashes

              AAGH! ROFL “I do not envy the headache you will have when you awake..”

            • Vaquera

              Ha ha! Simpatico.

            • Jimmy3

              No… I thought you were confused in saying Thursday footbaw is going too far away from America. Like it’s being played in and broadcasted from The Bengazi or something. Because the statement that there should not be Thursday footbaw is the most anti-American, unpatriotical terrist statement that has ever been posted here, and I was *almost* certain there were no terrists in the Bunker.

            • TheRupture

              Nonono. Too far for night football. Thursday night football is a Communist plot. There is only one football night that is American. Tuesday and Wednesday are the only two nights left. How special is that? Not. Appetizers for dinner 7 nights a week is a plot not without consequences. I’m sure of it. I have made my stand at Thursday. It goes too far.

            • Jimmy3

              Week 1: Seahawks 36 – Packers 16
              Week 2: Ravens 26 – Steelers 6
              Week 3: Falcons 56 – Buccaneers 14
              Week 4: Giants 45 – Redskins 14
              Week 5: Packers 42 – Vikings 10

              This may be the worst communist plot ever. They’re doing a terrible job of sharing the points.

            • TheRupture

              Now you’re telling me there’s sharing in football? I knew you were pulling my leg. Now excuse me, I have to go make some chicken wings.

            • Jimmy3

              Sharing has always been a part of footbaw. The Jets are professional.

              http://youtu.be/99E653FDTHs

            • Vaquera

              Wow. That could have been anyone’s game.

            • Captain Howdy

              F**K New Yawk, F**K Michael Sick, F**K Wex Cryin”…GO PATS!

      • Vaquera

        Another one popped up a few minutes ago:
        https://twitter.com/scientologyvid/status/522934424254808065

        • Vaquera

          ….

          • Jo

            More PR on FB.

            Carol Diane Hogarth

            5 hrs ·

            loving his drama! Got 87% in his spelling test, really loving school
            and life. We are so proud of him as is everyone else. Just shows when
            you really care and take the effort and time to help from everyone
            concerned and give people a chance and apply the correct tech life is
            good and everyone wins… How lucky we all are to all have each
            other:))xxxxxx

            • Vaquera

              I suspect those words were a directive from above.

    • TheRupture

      Interesting. I would have thought all hands were on the tent decks in UK. I noticed even before the posts here that an unusual number of promo photos on Scientology IAS fliers were featuring groups of children, some family photos, some kids playing at festivals. So many that I noticed it as a ploy. This makes me suspect the Duggan scandal was leaking even earlier within OSA’s hearing.

      Should we make guesses who Won’t be showing up this weekend? I’m betting one Tom Cruise and two whales.

      • Vaquera

        I’m interested to hear which $cilebrities have the cojones to show up. Kelly P keeps JT’s pair in her pocket + she recently graduated OTVII, so I’m hoping they will show their thetan-less selves.

        • TheRupture

          Ooh, yes, the new OT7 Wives’ Club. You just know they’ll have ringside seats. Tempted to place a little bet on Johnny Boy. Tomboy and Johnboy both not showing would be hard even for the blind not to notice especially if Ice Princess Kelly shows alone. Maybe someone will pull a Leah and ask Dave, “Where’s Johnny?” You can’t go wrong copying a classic!

        • Robert Eckert
          • Captain Howdy

            “Mother Hubbard always said life was like a box of body thetans. You never know what you’re gonna get.”

      • Baby

        I was going to welcome you Rapture, but I see you have already had many posts. Haven’t noticed but hello!

        • Missionary Kid

          I know it was just a keyboard slip, and you’re gone on vacation, but there’s a hell of a difference between Rupture and Rapture. 😉

  • Panopea Abrupta

    $cientology sports:

    Synchronized drowning
    Blind Biathlon which sometimes morphs into
    One-legged Race (Footbullet Special)
    Hole Vault
    Relay Race (Competitors must pass the debt to team members, first team to go bankrupt wins)
    Diving (synchronized 10 metre platform – this is unfortunately usually performed over concrete.)

    How is $cientology different from a good book?

    You can’t put a good book down.
    We must put $cientology down.

    Murky, irrational “administration” and insanity mis-labeled as ethics ?
    Injustice baptised justice?
    Mendacity tagged as truth?

    Kafka wrote the book but $cientology took it from the realms of fiction and honed it, polished it and called it religion.

    • Missionary Kid

      All true.

    • Panopea Abrupta

      Welcome back, you c&*t

      • Jo

        Lol.

      • Frodis73

        Yeah, you have been missed.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Yes we missed you ML!

    • Todd Tomorrow

      Was looking around your site and had never seen, Lil D and his twin sister next to each other. Is she a clam who just dabbles in illegal drugs? I wonder if she was ever in? I think pot would open your eyes to this bullshit cult.

      • Missionary Kid

        Lil D is a new nickname for DM. I’ve saved it for posting later.

  • I’ve taken most of my site and made it portable!

    UmbraXenu: The Home Game

    (Download 3MB, unzip, open in the browser.)

    You can throw it on a pen drive and take it anywhere, or put it on a tablet. (Tested on Android.) It’ll have more bells and whistles added as I customize it for TiddlyWiki5.

    • Jimmy3

      What are the recommended ages for this gaem?

      • If you can join the Sea Org, then you should be playing this first.

      • Captain Howdy

        It’s recommend for ages from 8 to 4 quadrillion

    • TheRupture

      Tiddliwinks? Great, I’ll play. Thank you again for your labor of passion. Also, more cowbell please.

  • Frodis73

    Okay, is it 2 or 3 kids that have been off loaded to SA? This is from the back in comm blog:

    Junior was not the only Duggan child that had been sent to South
    Africa – one had also been sent to live with OT8 Heidi Wolfaardt,
    another was somewhere else.

    By my count, that is three in total.

    • Robert Eckert

      2 in South Africa, maybe a third somewhere else.

      • Frodis73

        Ok, that makes more sense. I was thinking they were referring to somewhere else in SA. Geez, these Duggans suck balls.

        • Robert Eckert

          Tony appears to think that the speculation about a third child somewhere else is just mistaken.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      This is human trafficking, they are getting the commission from the donation in exchange for caring for the poor kid. Apparently the Duggans live in Palo Alto which is in Santa Clara County in California; online anonymous reports can be made to Palo Alto police and Santa Clara County online whistleblower. It won’t stop them, they probably own the cops already…

      • Robert Eckert

        Santa Clara County defers to whichever side of a dispute has more money as a matter of reflex. They don’t even need to be bought.

      • Jimmy3

        It’s not human trafficking; there is no evidence that the kids were shipped off to be put to use in slave labor. As long as the children are in South Africa on a legal visa, it’s hard to imagine any law that this arrangement is violating. It’s even harder to imagine what any law enforcement agency could possibly do about it.

        It’s not illegal to send your children to live with relatives or family friends in another country, as long as they abide by that country’s laws. If you send your kids to live with a trusted family in another country, it’s certainly not illegal to provide them with money for their care.

        I’m not defending the Duggans. It is a shitty thing to do, but shitty people tend to do shitty things. I’m only saying they’re not breaking the law here, and contacting an agency with a complaint about this will get you nowhere. They will probably think you’re far crazier than the people you’re reporting.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          This is truth.
          Annoying….but true.

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          Thanks Jimmy3, I know what you are saying and I think you are probably right on the technicality. Of course they will never go to jail for treating their kids this way. Although the kid is not being put to work other than perhaps as a little scibot, I am thinking of something mentioned on the SA blog – that the Hogarths received a large commission for the donation, and the other part of the deal is getting paid to care for the young boy. So they are benefitting – it is a commercial transaction to get a commission, and that is where it begins to look like trafficking (making money off the arrangement, not just getting a stipend as a caretaker).

          • Jimmy3

            Of course they are benefitting financially from the arrangement, but that is not illegal, and none of this fits the legal definition of human trafficking.

            As an aside, I can’t even imagine my parents paying all this money to ship me thousands of miles away when I was 13. My mom would’ve shopped around, run price comparisons and clipped a bunch of coupons. Not that I wasn’t loved, but I’m sure they would’ve found a much better deal.

            • Vaquera

              Right. And there are two different actions-

              1) Hogarth was given a commission on a regged donation.
              2) Horgarth receives a salary of $8,500 for the job of taking care of someone else’s kid + that kid’s room and board. What they decide to do with their paycheck (hire and delegate to other caretakers) is something else yet again.

              The Duggans are committing a moral, ethical crime and as parents have followed the Scio practice of disconnection. I agree with you and I don’t yet see how they are breaking the law.

              Hey, any chance DM has insisted the Duggars actually disconnect for their ‘trouble source’ son and told them that shipping him off is the way to do did?

            • Free Minds, Free Hearts

              Oh people, it just gives me the sads to think this is legal. The really big sads.

            • Vaquera

              I’m right there with you, Free.

            • Sarah James

              Me too. 🙁

            • Missionary Kid

              Is it really disconnection? Have the Dugans actually stopped communicating with the kid?

              I know they shipped him off to SA.

            • Vaquera

              Idk. I was asking if it’s something Crazy Davey would enforce.

        • Vaquera

          Jimmy “Just the facts, Ma’am” Friday. I concur.

        • Captain Howdy

          Non-scilon rich folks are or were sending their supposedly troubled teens to these horrible “tough love” private bootcamps that were sometimes strategically located in other countries for legal reasons.. One of Mitt Rommey’s pals was the owner of a few of them. Kids were dying, being beaten, raped..you name it.

    • Bavarian Rage

      Yep…3? I wondered the same as I read that post earlier. No clarity as yet.

      Added to the fact that no Scientologist is capable of providing for the psychiatric needs of juvenile mental issues, the Duggans appear too OLD to take on young children. However well-intentioned their motives might have been (giving them the benefit of the doubt), still an irresponsible, ill-thought-out decision.

      • Vaquera

        Check my comment just above.

    • Vaquera

      I posted the same question hours ago and Tony clarified that it’s two, not three, children.

    • Vaquera

      Refresh

  • Bury_The_Nuts

    Dicksuqs is frying my posts.
    Shocker!

    • Captain Howdy

      How many?

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        About three! But I have had Zinfandel…:-)

    • I had one comment go missing then come back

  • Bavarian Rage

    OT: Quote from dasRindersblog re: Duggen kid tragedy – “This story is beneath anything I am aware of in the history of the vulture culture.”… Vulture Culture…me likey. Belongs on some list if not already there.

    From a commenter on same Rinderpost – “The plot sickens.” Truer/more clever words have never been spoken.

  • Captain Howdy

    Oh my Xenu. The Patriots win in dramatic fashion at the last possible moment,

    And…..
    P.S – Suck it Dodgers
    http://youtu.be/lrI7dVj90zs

    • Jimmy3

      That is a timeless call, the greatest ever.
      But these Giants can never beat Royals.
      http://youtu.be/LFasFq4GJYM

      • Captain Howdy

        It doesn’t matter, we’re playing in the World Series and the Dodgers AIN’T. We’ve already WON.

        • Jimmy3

          Oh. Well… That should make it easier for Giants fans to deal with getting swept by the Royals in the World Series then.

          • Captain Howdy

            Fine, that way they and Giants can get back to one of the finest cities in the world that much sooner and they won’t have to hang out in the shitty Midwest with a bunch of rednecks any longer than necessary.

            • stillgrace2

              Hear, hear!!!

            • Captain Howdy

              Phew! I was hoping you’d show up to pick up the ball. I’m all out of B.S for today.

            • stillgrace2

              Jimmy shouldn’t ever underestimate the Giants in October during an even-numbered year. Did you see the game? It had an awesome ending!

            • Captain Howdy

              Naw, I was watching the Pats stick it to the Jets. I just saw it on google news. Congrats.

            • stillgrace2

              The team manager called the Giants a bunch of cockroaches- they never die!
              … and thanks, it’s your team, too.

            • outraged

              /the JETS are all hanging out with WAvy DAvy,
              off the radar completely.
              drunk and idle.

            • Jimmy3

              100 is an even number. It is the percentage of postseason games the Royals have won this year. I actually like the Giants, but these Royals have some sort of Midwestern Redneck Magick. There is no beating them this year. Sorry.

            • stillgrace2

              We’ll see … it’s going to be a great series! Two scrappy teams … my favorite scenario.

            • Jimmy3

              That was very rude. My neck may be red, but my tears are the same translatent color as yours. Just think about that the next time you say Midwesterners are dumb and worthless. Sometimes I doubt you’re even a real Captain. Goodnight.

        • outraged

          Go Kansas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • outraged

        And NO ONE can ever beat this Royal Clown:

        http://youtu.be/VBmCJEehYtU

  • deathtoallpoliticians

    as a priest, i felt it was important for me to warn my congregation about the dangers of cults and sects in my sermon today. “these new ‘religions’ are just a pack of weird rituals and chants designed to take away the money of fools!” i then continued “now let us repeat the lord’s prayer, but first let’s pass the collection plate…”

    scientologists keep handing me flyers and insisting that i see a movie about scientology. i don’t go because i think I’ve seen enough shiate movies starring tom cruise.

    how many scientologists does it take to change a light bulb? What suppressive told you the light bulb needed changing?!? report to ethics immediately, you db!

    what does dwarvenfurher fear above all else? that one day the other six dwarves will come looking for him.

    what does dwarvenfurher’s communicator, larisse, say is the worst part about sex with him? his short comings.

    laura prepon recently denied dating tom cruise. “omfg” gasped dwarvenfurher upon learning of the denial “we totally forget to tell her…”

    • Jimmy3

      You mean you’re a priest in a game, right? You play as a priest in WoW, or something like that?

      • deathtoallpoliticians

        hello and good day, j3. it is my utmost pleasure to answer your question. i am an ordained minister by the universal life church. however, i fear that this may only hold the same weight as a degree from the university of phoenix. would you like me to bless you, perform confession and/or some form of marriage, my friend? 🙂

        • Jimmy3

          Your presence is blessing enough. Thank you, Father. 🙂

    • outraged

      I thought you meant YOU – deathtoallpoliticians (LURVE your name) recently denied dating tom cruise. lol

    • Graham

      At last, a Scientology light-bulb joke! Thanks ‘death’. Might I offer a variation?

      How many scientologists does it take to change a toilet roll? What suppressive told you the toilet roll needed changing?!? report to ethics immediately, you db!

      • Missionary Kid

        How many $cientologists does it take to change a toilet roll?
        None. There is no toilet paper. It’s $cientology.

  • Pierrot

    *** RED X +–+ RED X +–+RED X +–+ RED X *** Friday the 17th of October

    Good morning Early Birds and Night Owls,
    It has been the usual build up to stats Thursday, more so lately, the cornered beast is snarling back.
    the consolidation and updating of the various lists will be done by 5am edt, check the write up and recommendation about it at wwp: https://whyweprotest.net/threads/taking-down-co-on-craigslist-co-ads-on-craigslist.113779/page-116#post-2490545

    FREELOADER Debt is ILLEGAL and CAN’T BE ENFORCED.
    DON’T route out, BLOW, Get HELP, get OUT. CALL 1-866-XSEAORG

    Ty Dodo and artist

  • valshifter

    This so far is my favorite Karen’s video, a lot of detail and information, and she will post it too as soon as she gets fair gamed, love it.!!! Rinder is beating the midget on this one, oh how much he must hate that.

  • DodoTheLaser

    Bob Duggan is a billionaire. David Miscavige is unofficially so too, I believe.
    Tony Ortega, Mike Rinder, Karen de la Carriere and everyone who posts critically here and elsewhere,
    I salute you! Like Karen said, if you think you are being fair-gamed, please make it publicly known.

    AC/DC – For Those About to Rock (We Salute You)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtMGoU9NcMo

    • DodoTheLaser

      For the record, although I am not a major whistle blower, I want it to be known that I am not suicidal, my family is doing well, better then ever in fact. And I am not prone to accidents of any kind either.

  • Sydjazz

    Awaits the usual. He was a member 20 years ago things have changed blah blah from karin pouw or david in drag

    • DodoTheLaser

      Yes and no. Mike left in 2007. Tough shit.

      • AmoVolare

        Hi DTL,
        too bad the only day I posted before you, was your (partial) day off.
        Welcome back upndposting!

        • DodoTheLaser

          Hahaha! It’s ok, AmoV. Your post was 1st and it made me smile when I saw it. 🙂
          I am sure you will beat me again. Cheers and thank you!

          • Jgg2012

            They can’t change. That would be squirreling.

      • Graham

        ‘Things have changed’ seems to be their standard response even if somebody’s only been ‘out’ a couple of years. Not sure how they reconcile that with their own reliance in this current case on a doc from 1963- over 50 years old!

        • aegerprimo

          Lying liars who lie, that’s how they reconcile their contradictions.