SUPPORT THE UNDERGROUND BUNKER
You can either make a one-time donation to the site via Paypal...

...or you can subscribe and get billed monthly:

FOLLOW ME ON
SUBSCRIBE TO OUR
E-MAIL LIST
To join our e-mail list & get daily updates on new stories, e-mail us at newstory@tonyortega.org.
RSS Feed
Click here to add The Underground Bunker to your RSS Reader

Jon Atack: Why I call Scientology a cult and not a church

DallasChapelJon Atack is the author of A Piece of Blue Sky, one of the very best books on L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology. He has a new edition of the book for sale, and on Saturdays he’s helping us sift through the legends, myths, and contested facts about Scientology that tend to get hashed and rehashed in books, articles, and especially on the Internet.

Jon continues to examine some of the most basic assumptions about L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology. And this week, Jon takes the grand view. Take it away, maestro…

JON: I have long objected to the Scientology cult being called “the church” by both adherents and opponents. As I understand it, the term “church” originally meant a Christian organization. Despite his statements to the contrary, it was actually L. Ron Hubbard who registered the first “church” of Scientology, in Camden, New Jersey, in December 1953. I have copies of the registrations of this and two other “churches,” the Church of Spiritual Engineering and the Church of American Science, which sheds light on the choice of the term “church.” This definition was given by Hubbard in a 1954 lecture (5410C04) and is repeated in Modern Management Technology Defined:

CHURCH OF AMERICAN SCIENCE, there is a difference between the Church of American Science and the Church of Scientology. The Church of American Science is a Christian religion. It believes in the Holy Bible, Jesus is the Savior of man and everything that’s necessary to be a Christian religion. People who belong to that church are expected to be Christians. These two churches fit together. We take somebody in as a Church of American Science. It doesn’t disagree with his baptism or other things like that, and he could gradually slide over into some sort of better, wider activity such as the Church of Scientology and a little more wisdom and come a little more close to optimum. Then if he was good and one of the people that we would like to have around he would eventually slide into the HASI [Hubbard Association of Scientologists International]. So we have provided stepping stones to Scientology with these organizations.

There is a dreadful cynicism contained in this definition. Scientology is “sort of better” than Christianity, and this “church” exists solely to recruit Christians and move them over into Scientology. As Hubbard taught that Christ was merely an “implant” in the R6 Bank (the reactive mind, implanted by Xenu some 75 million years ago, we are told), Hubbard’s assertions that Scientology is eclectic are palpably untrue.

I argue with sociologists, who insist that we call all post-WWII belief systems “new religious movements.” That therapy groups, such as Landmark Trust and the Sullivanians are listed as “nrms,” although they have no pretensions to religion, is bizarre and inaccurate. My suggestion that we simply use the tried and tested word “cult” for such groups is met with horror and disbelief. So, let’s have a look at the dictionary (as Hubbard suggested we should):

1. Worship 1683 2. A particular form of religious worship; esp. in reference to its external rites and ceremonies 1679 3. transferative Devotion to a particular person or thing, now especially as paid by a body of professed adherents 1711.

This is the full definition as given in the Shorter Oxford. The dates show the first recorded usage in English, showing that the word has been around for a long time. In fact, it derives from a Latin word, so has been in use for centuries, and our particular usage — definition three — has been with us for three hundred years. The pejorative tabloid redefinition of the word, which so upsets sociologists and Scientologists, is nowhere to be seen. To use Scientology’s own term, it is a “misunderstood word.”

Of course, Hubbard wanted us to adopt his use of the word “church” to legitimise his cult as a religion, and whenever you do call the cult a “church” that is precisely what you do. So, let us be accurate: Scientology is not a church, but an attempt to overthrow all churches and the Christian religion. It is a cult, and let’s call a cult a cult.

THE BUNKER: Thank you, Jon. As usual, your research is impeccable, and you make a persuasive point.

At the Bunker, we’re going to continue to avoid using the word “cult.” (We do quote other people using it, but we stay away from it ourselves.) Mainly, that’s because we find arguments about whether Scientology is a cult or not a big waste of time. Scientology calls itself a church, so we use that term — but if it’s a church, doesn’t that make its behavior even more questionable? Why is a church coercing young women to have abortions. Why is a church locking up its executives in a bizarre office-prison for years at a time? You see what we’re getting at.

We try to put the focus on what Scientology does, not what it calls itself. We’re more interested in reporting the facts than getting bogged down in philosophical skirmishes. But that’s just us. Jon, you call Scientology whatever you want. You earned it. And we’ll give you the last word.

JON: The definition is taken from the Shorter Oxford, which is authoritative. But you might want to suggest that rather than calling it a “church,” people use a neutral term, such as “Scientology” or “the Scientology organization.” If it called itself “the only hope for mankind” would you use that expression? We should not be misled and we should not mislead others. Hubbard knew well enough what he was doing and to use a “purr” word does have an impact upon thinking, as brain imaging has shown. It really does! (About half the population have an automatic reaction to swear words, for instance. They cannot help but be negatively aroused.) My use of “cult” is per the dictionary. Their use of “church” is not and has a hypnotic intent.

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on March 22, 2014 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS (We read Scientology’s founding text) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25

UP THE BRIDGE (Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43

GETTING OUR ETHICS IN (Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14

SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING (Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43

PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer

 

Share Button
  • FOTF2012

    While I agree that the Oxford definitions above are accurate definitions, the fact remains that “cult” has taken on a negative connotation, if not denotation.

    The New International Dictionary (1996 version) captured a sense of the vernacular usage of cult as a pejorative: “(3) …a great or excessive devotion or dedication to some person, idea, or thing… the object of such devotion… a body of persons characterized by such devotion.” (cf. http://psyed.org/r/cog/bw/bwd/apa/ap/apareport2.html).

    Here’s one view on efforts to classify religious movements: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociological_classifications_of_religious_movements

    I tend to agree with the preceding, though at times I’m tempted to say, as others have, that the only difference between cults, sects, religions, and major religions is their longevity, number of followers, and degree of social acceptance. And social acceptance does not necessarily validate worth to society; acceptance may just signal acclimation — “we all got so used to hearing something that it sounds normal.”

    I don’t think any of them should be subsidized by taxpayers, and I don’t think it should be lawful to indoctrinate children into any of them; let kids have broad exposure and choose for themselves as adults.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      It is incorrect to lump scientology in with protestants or buddhists. It is not matter of whether they are socially accepted or how many members they have. Scientology is in no way a religion – read the many references by LRH, cited here today in comments. They have tax exempt status in the US because they terrorized the IRS and bullied them into it with thousands of lawsuits. My objection to scientology is a how they treat members and non members as a matter of policy – fraud, scams, coerced abortions, disconnection.

      • FOTF2012

        Some Buddhists would not consider Buddhism to be a religion. See http://www.buddhanet.net/nutshell03.htm.

        If I were to objectively land on Earth as say a visitor from, oh, a planet around some star about 130 light years from here — say, Markab — and I were asked to write a report for some agents of say an IRS-like agency about the religions of Earth, I’m not sure I could distinguish Scientology’s beliefs in terms of degree, outlandishness, or non-verifiability from other major religions.

        Scientology has its body thetans. Jesus cast out demons. Islam believes in Jinn (genies). They all believe in disembodied spirits of one sort or another.

        Scientology believes in the second coming of the next invader voice. Christianity believes in Jesus’ return on clouds of glory to rule Earth for some 1,000 years. Islam believes in the coming of the Mahdi to signal the start of a similar era.

        Some Christians believe in the power of laying on of hands. Scientologists use touch assists. Muslims have ablution and power of hands.

        Scientology solicits money from its followers. So does Christianity (watch any televangelist) and Islam.

        Christianity has its God and so does Islam as Allah. Scientology has its 8th Dynamic.

        It seems it is not a matter of belief that sets Scientology apart. Is it belief in healing power?

        No. Other religions also believe in healing of medical problems through belief. Scientology believes that auditing will handle medical problems. Christianity has its saints and shrines and miracles. Same with Islam.

        Is it that Scientology is harsher and crueler than other religions?

        No. While disconnection and cult mind control are horrible, I am not aware of any Scientologist suicide bombers, no actual torture, or burning at the stake, execution, and so forth that characterized earlier eras of Christianity (and still affecting some sects today), and crimes of a type committed regularly in some Muslim societies. For example, Scientology may have its enforced abortions and disconnection, but I am not aware of any “honor” killings done by Scientologists in the name of their beliefs.

        Ironically, Scientology likes to lump itself in with Buddhism, and there are some parallels. But I think Scientology has more in common with fundamentalists of the monotheisms.

        My two cents — and please remember that I am playing the Devil’s Advocate here. I could argue in another direction too.

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          Actually if I came from another planet I would see that the scientology organization is very different from religions – it is just into money, a big business, unscrupulously destroying all enemies, using the term “church” to shield its criminal activities. More like a mobster or gangster organization than a church. I wouldn’t see that for the Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist. Those groups have active discussions about their beliefs, debates, articles by their own religious scholars, members with different viewpoints, actively engaged in a spiritual journey at different levels and intensities. They are religions, with belief systems, followers, expectations, etc. But they are not set up simply to extract money and attack enemies.

          • FOTF2012

            In the span of their histories, the religions seen as relatively benign today have committed horrible atrocities against others in the name of their beliefs — atrocities far worse than money-gouging (inquisitions, witch burnings, massacre of men/women/children, riots and assaults, the “greater” jihad, suicide bombings, etc.).

            While the Eastern religions, like Buddhism and Hinduism, have tended to open and tolerant and inclusive, they have had their times of violence as well. Buddhism continues to strike me as the most open and tolerant of other beliefs. But Hinduism has that trait to a great extent, too.

            In fact, Hindus would have been happy to include Mohammed on their list of those to be worshipped — you can imagine how far that went (even though, as someone pointed out, there are elements of Islam, its shrines, and practices that seem to have evolved directly out of Hinduism).

            It took about 2,000 years for Christianity to become more moderate and accepting. If that same timeline applies to other religions, Islam may mellow out around 2600 AD and Scientology around 3950 AD. Hopefully the Internet, the open communications of the modern world, and public education will speed that mellowing process up considerably. After all, even before the Internet, Mormonism modified some of its behaviors, like polygamy, to become more socially acceptable (though it is still practiced openly in the Fundamentalist church and more privately in the main church).

            More and more I ask myself, why do we need religion at all? With so many religions, sects, and cults all trying to save us (or not save us by hastening “the end times”) they will drive us all nuts. I’m reminded of the bumper sticker: Dear God, please save me from your true believers.

          • FOTF2012

            Well said. Yes, the contrasts with other religions are stark.

  • Sunny Sands

    In Clearwater today, they had the lift trucks at the scientology owned Coachman Building.

    • Panopea Abrupta

      Lil Davey doesn’t buy his lifts by the truck-load, surely?

      • Missionary Kid

        He does for his shoes.

    • Mark

      Moving more junk in or out – or couldn’t you hang around too long, Sunny?

      • Sunny Sands

        They are doing repairs throughout the whole place. Here’s another view. I was stopped at the red light when taking these photos. They don’t like people taking pics, so I try not to be too obvious.

        They actually did have a guard across the street, but his back was turned when I took this.

        • Mark

          Living in Clearwater must seem like inhabiting a never-ending episode of the Twilight Zone or Outer Limits sometimes.

          • Sunny Sands

            There’a lot more positive to Clearwater than just scientology. Their territory is pretty small compared to the whole city. This winter has been mild most days, and we’ve had weather in the 70s for weeks.

            • Mark

              The part over the causeway looks much nicer. But you’d like your real town-centre back too, right? (I have to be properly grateful it struggled into the low 50s in London today!)

            • Sunny Sands

              Oh, yes, (sniff, sniff). So many memories growing up there.

            • GalacticGreg

              Manhattan, too.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Bedbug removal or GAT 1 squirrels.

          • GalacticGreg

            or both !

  • Artoo45

    Squeeeeeee! It’s here! I’ll put it on the strange tchotchke shelf until I can create a suitable, permanent home for it. That fancy non-glare glass is quite nice.

    • Sunny Sands

      Interesting conversation piece.

      • Artoo45

        Oh, you should hear some of my conversations when clams are involved . . .

    • Observer

      Wow, is that a genuine Rolls-Royce hood ornament?

      • Artoo45

        It’s from my godfather who was quite the gearhead. He was born in 1913 and had many cars over the years. This was a trophy he was awarded by some Rolls-Royce club back in the 40s. It’s entirely chrome plated and mounted on a Silver Ghost cylinder. The plating makes the Spirit of Ecstasy less valuable, but the sentimental value is priceless.

        • Observer

          Very cool!

          My post was supposed to say wow, not well. I’ve changed it twice but it’s apparently not taking. Disqus is more screwed up than usual today.

          • Eclipse-girl

            sometimes you need to refresh it. But DISCUS is always a friggen problem

    • Mark

      It looks in much better nick than that one on the website. I see you’re a fan of repoussé work too!

      • Tory Christman

        Artoo45 is “nick”? Interesting….vaaaaaaaaaadeeey intahhhwwwwesting. 🙂

        • Jimmy3

          I think ‘nick’ must be British for ‘shape’ or ‘condition’. The British make up new uses for words like they it’s their language or something.

          • Panopea Abrupta

            Just as long as the old Bill don’t sling you in the nick, it’s all good, innit.

            • Jimmy3

              No idea what you’ve said.

            • Panopea Abrupta

              Old Bill = cops
              nick has yet another meaning – jail (in addition to nick =steal)

              So : as long as the cops don’t throw you in jail, there’s no problem

              Living in London for a few years taught me more about rhyming slang and cockney patterns of speech than i ever wanted to learn.

          • Tory Christman

            ahhh ok, thanks, Jimmy3! My favorite term we both use differently is one I learned at Flag: “Jumper”. We were making a video about ALL the clothes one needs to bring to Flag, due to the BOILING HOT weather outside, and the FREEZING COLD courserooms.
            One girl said: “And don’t forget to bring a Jumpaaaah” (Jumper). I said “Jumper?”
            The Australians asked: “What does a Jumpah mean to you?
            I said “A jumper is a dress”. They all burst out laughing. I still hear different definitions of what people think a Jumper is in other countries: “Light Jacket to Sweater” are the 2 most agreed up: Far from a dress!~ 😀

            • Jimmy3

              If I knew it was a piece of clothing, I’d guess it was a light jacket, too. But I didn’t really know, we don’t call it that here. My first thought if someone asked to bring a jumper would be a “jumper cable”

            • Panopea Abrupta

              Jumper, sweater, jersey, gansey, pullover, – all the same thing!

            • Jimmy3

              We’s simple folk, we call our jackets after the season they’re worn in. “Where’s my winter coat?” “I hung it up next to your spring jacket.” But here, you’ll often have to wear your winter coat in the fall and your spring jacket in the summer.

            • Panopea Abrupta

              None of the above are jackets or coats.

            • Jimmy3

              A pullover is a jacket here. And a jumper is a light jacket.

            • Sydjazz

              No need for jumpers down here today. Stinking hot

            • Sandy

              To me, a jumper is a dress with straps over a blouse

            • Eclipse-girl

              That is the American definition of a jumper. Not the British / Australian / New Zealand definition

        • Mark

          What Jimmy3 says below. I must keep on reminding myself that our two nations are divided by a common language, Tory 😉

          • Panopea Abrupta

            Gis a fag, mate

            • Mark

              Wodjer want, then – a rolly or a proper snout?

        • richelieu jr

          Funnily enough, in French we cal a ‘jumper’ or ‘sweater’ as you call it by another Ehglish name! “Pull” or “Pull-over”

          How funny that you don’t!

    • Tory Christman

      My friend brought one of these over last night! He got one (the meter dial) at some used electronics
      store where they bought 67 of them for $1 and sold it to him for $5. And to think $cientology charges
      $5-6-8,000 for an E-meter. BOGUS! BOGUS!

      • Once_Born

        I wonder if the vendor is puzzling over why this odd item has sold out so quickly… and wishing he had put a higher price on them.

        • SvenBoogie

          I’d be surprised if they are selling out, aside from the relatively few that know what it is and find the novelty in it, they have pretty much no real world use.

          • Once_Born

            I would have thought so too, but Eivol Ekdal posted the news that they are all gone, here 8 hours ago (use the search function in your browser to find the word ‘Eivol’ on this page).

            • SvenBoogie

              Interesting, wonder who bought them all up…

              edit: sort of hope it wasn’t the cult itself buying them back as damage control

            • Once_Born

              Maybe some Scientologist noticed how much fun everyone was having, and was ordered to buy them all…

            • Eclipse-girl

              No scientologist has the kind of money to buy all of them, even at $5.00 each

            • TDA1541A

              Don’t forget the foolish Scientology “whales’ or dickhead Tom Cruise.

            • Eclipse-girl

              I doubt Tom C would give a damn because he doesn’t know about it.
              A whale might possibly, but after being constantly regged …. would they know?

            • TDA1541A

              That leaves the Freezone, The Independants and Ron’s Orgs and maybe that Asian Branche.

            • Jimmy3

              I would have ordered one, but every spare penny I have goes to my favorite charitable organization: UNICEF. Are you a fan of UNICEF?

            • Eclipse-girl

              I am.

            • richelieu jr

              SO interesting J3! Tonight, at dinner, I ended up chatting with a lovely couple who work for UNICEF and who were trying to converse with a French family in between us.

              I’ve loved UNICEF ever since collecting money for them as a kid in Colorado. Still, I was somewhat chastened when the lady asked me on her way out f I was ‘A biker, or more of an artist’. Ouch! And I thought I was all dressed up!

            • TDA1541A

              Hmmm you seem to have a dichotomous view on that judging from your comment on the other thread. You are jesting I’m sure.

            • Eclipse-girl

              I agree the various indies may want these, and have some cash to to purchase a large number of meters if they see them on the market.

            • richelieu jr

              As soon as it was posted here OSA, Cruise et all knew. Count on it.

            • Free Minds, Free Hearts

              I kind of think OSA read about it here and made someone buy them all up.

            • Jimmy3

              My guess is it was mostly critics buying them up to play around with or to make something with. At least 4 or 5 people in the Bunker said they ordered one. How many put in an order without commenting on it? And Tory’s friend obviously bought theirs from the same site. I’d speculate too that some of David Touretzky’s fans/friends bought some, as they knew about it before it was published on the Bunker.

        • richelieu jr

          If anyone can find one, I’m buying!

    • aquaclara

      It came fast! Thanks for sharing this here, so we can all bask in the wonderfulness of this purchase. (Davey, look who just saved a ton of money on cult insurance!)

  • NeverIn

    While I agree with Jon that we should not use the word church to describe Scientology – doing so only serves their frankly nepharious purposes – cult misses the main point.

    Here’s a little test to determine what kind of organization you have:

    1. Which activity do staff collectively spend most of their time performing or supporting?
    a. Delivery of goods and services
    b. Fundraising

    2. Which categories of spending have the highest budgets?
    a. Delivery of goods and services
    b. Development of goods and services
    c. Sales, Marketing and PR
    d. Capital expenditures
    e. Management compensation
    f. Legal

    3. How are provided goods and services paid for?
    a. They are paid for by the collective donations of organization benefactors
    b. They are paid for by the recipients

    If you compare the answers for Scientology to other organizations, it becomes clear that it is not a church, a cult, a sect, a ministry, a club, or a not-for-profit or public-service anything.

    It is a business, plain and simple.

    • SvenBoogie

      Cult and business are in no way mutually exclusive terms.

      • Tory Christman

        Also, as I said below….it’s a FRAUDULENT business, at best. This needs to be made clear
        to every single person…even peeps who say they’d never get “in”. Pass on the word, please as per cult experts who have studied cults for years: “Anyone can get suckered into a cult IF they’re at the wrong place/wrong time…especially if they don’t know What Is a Cult. Cults and ~fraudulent~ businesses are in no way mutually exclusive terms, SvenBoogie. 🙂 Honest, good businesses have few similarities to cults. <<< Sadly, these seem to be shrinking by the day.

        • SvenBoogie

          Right, I sort of assumed fraudulent was implied under the ‘cult’ part, but no argument here.

          • richelieu jr

            I don’t even think a cult has to be fraudulent. Just sort of new and based around some sort of ‘cult of personality’…

        • richelieu jr

          Exactly? Business implies some sort of fair exchange.

          They give you the business, all right, but it’s a business in the same sense as playing 3 Card Monty in a flea market is.

    • Tory Christman

      I was “in” for 30 years…and have used both since I was out. I agree with Jon in that $cientology
      TOTALLY is NOT a “church” as one would think of one. However, I agree more with Tony—wasting
      time arguing over is it a cult or a church is just that: time that *could* be used in a better, more specific way.

      I have used it far more to my advantage in explaining to others how it is NOT really a “church” as they think of one. Had I left it at “It’s a cult”…most people really don’t know what a Cult is, except “Jonestown” and a few other examples. Once I explain a few examples….people *totally* change.

      Neverin…I love that! I’ve been saying that of late: It’s a fraudulent, bogus business (at best) pretending to be a ‘church’ or ‘religion’. 🙂 Happy Week-end to ALL <3 Tory/Magoo

  • GalacticGreg

    One of the goals of the Cult of $cientology is to make you paranoid of your body and your thought process. Most Bunker viewers have heard of the Purification Rundown. Okay, that is one thing: to do a relatively short ‘program’ to ‘cleanse’ your body/mind.

    But what do $ciloons follow for let’s say, always, every day, a health practice they ‘religiously’ follow? Why – it is Ronald Lafayette’s “Clear Body, Clear Mind”. And here’s the contents to peruse. It’s stupefying (make someone unable to think or feel properly.) As Jon Atack has so often reminded, so very much of Ron’s sh1t is hypnotic.

    • And I don’t rent cars!

      What if you sent this to the FDA (food and drug agency) in the US along with a letter explaining how scientologists are practicing medicine without a license? They were investigated about the e-meter while LRH was alive, IIRC. Maybe it’s time to reopen an investigation, especially in light of the cancer deaths that remain medically untreated, as per policy, “scripture” and Dianetics followed by the OT levels especially starting with OT IV. Just a thought GG.

  • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

    Alexa update for Mar. 22: *refresh for images*

    Tony: US rank #17,303 – up 102 from yesterday. (Average rank last 3 months: 16,088)
    Scientology: US rank #38,176 – up 1,282 from yesterday. (Average rank last 3 months: 40,182)

    Difference: 20,873 – 1,180 less than yesterday. (Average difference last 3 months: 24,093)

    Clicks from India – 3,3% today.

    • aquaclara

      I just love this feature. Thanks, JT.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    RED-X RED-X RED-X

    They are still trying to rope the rubes with Craigslist ads.

    Exorcise them, please.
    Some fresh fresh ones down at the end – they’re the BEST .
    https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/taking-down-co-on-craigslist-co-ads-on-craigslist.113779/page-65#post-2437743

    Ty ap

    • Eclipse-girl

      Watch for the spoof ads in Orange Co and Ventura.

      read the spoof ads. They are wonderful

    • Graham

      Done.

    • Dancing Cranberry

      done. No more blues!

    • Sydjazz

      “Rubes rubes so many rubes ” homer simpson

    • Toni m

      Just blues. I found one but it was a good one. I gave it a heart.

  • Artoo45

    The boys just love their new toy . . .

    • Observer

      What overts does Godzilla have against Mecha Godzilla?

      • ze moo

        Any why always Tokyo? Surely other Japanese cities have pissed off the mighty reptilian just as much.

    • Once_Born

      Judging from the excellent picture, the tabs around the edge of the meter are in pristine condition. This suggests that it was not removed from an ‘officially retired’ e-meter and more likely sourced from a contractor selling overstock.

    • SvenBoogie

      Probably hard to get good readings on an electrically powered robot monster and a dino like one that has radioactive breath…

    • TDA1541A

      That is a good way to say: “Scientology, all your base belong to us.”

    • Sydjazz

      Oh cute model miscavige and cruise

    • richelieu jr

      So Jealous..!

      And that’s a great sculpture of Miscavige and Rathbun, isn’t it?

      • Jimmy3

        Which is which?

        • richelieu jr

          Great Question, J3!

          LRH could be Mzcha-Godzilla,a she’s assembled from all sorts of scraps of other’s creations molded into a monstrous entity, and Marty could be the more natural one, who grew into the form naturally, by imitating papa..

          Or– It could be the other was round, with LRH being the ‘pure’ object (Marty sure sued to think so, anyway) and MArty being the new creature,a seembled in L Ron’s image, but now composed of bits of wisdom and philosophy he has cobbled together into a form that started as an L Ron clone, but now is actaully showing signs of independent, original life…

      • SvenBoogie

        Its even life sized!

  • Tony DePhillips

    Now I would define a cult as; A group that enforces it’s will on its VOLUNTEER members with force and punishment. Scientology now fits this bill.

  • Toni m

    Just for respect to the owner of this website I’ll stop calling the cult cult starting tomorrow. I know he respect what we want to call the cult but as I said for respect no more cult to the cult for me. Until midnight today Sat 22 the cult will be cult for me. I’ll not going to call the cult a Church do, maybe church or scientology. I need to think very hard about this cult’s new name,
    Seriously, (1) I agree with the comment that people who still in will find hard to be call their believes a cult. After seeing this two ladies Sara and Mary still in love with hubbard after losing their kids to this church I understand that it takes a long time for the doctrine to get out of their system. They even quoted/read from his book in their interviews.
    (2) Journalism has it’s own standards. I check the Tampa Bay they called it too a Church so does Lawrence wright in his book. Besides it make sense what Mr Ortega said, They call themselves a Church when they do the opposite of what is expected from a religious entity so they are guilty for not doing what they should be doing
    (by their own words).

    Thank you Mr Atack I agree with you too. Hope when scientology is down and everyone is out I will call it what it really is for me without offend somebody.

    • splog

      Depends who you are trying to reach. Tony is a serious investigative reporter and wants his reporting to be taken seriously by everyone out there. So he uses the official name of the organization – The Church of Scientology.

      To you and I it’s a cult, so we call it that to each other.

      If you were talking to a still-in relative, calling it a cult would raise there defences and get you exactly nowhere so you’d call it something neutral like “the org”.

      Like you say, there’s nothing stopping you from calling it a church, one that has rather un-church-like behaviour

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        I’m with you, splog. There are still-ins reading this and other blogs, so I try to call it scientology or the scientology organization. Not a church (it is not one) and not a cult (so the still-ins don’t turn away from my comment before even reading it).

    • Eclipse-girl

      I am still going to use the word Cult or the word chirch.

      As Splog stated, Tony is in a different position that most of commenters.

    • richelieu jr

      I feel absolutely no responsibility to protect the feelings of Hubbard’s victims. It hurts my feelings that they insist on supporting an organization that kidnaps people, breaks up families, steal money, lies, cheats and tortures and starves to death the occasional disturbed person. IT hurts me as athinking, caring person that this sinister, callous organization puts up on thier billboard, ‘confused, lonely? Come in!” It insults me that they sign children to billion year contracts and then use them as slave labour, forcing abortions (on the tax-payer’s dime). I am offended byt heir manipulation of the justice system, bakcmail, fair-gmaing and dead-agenitng,a s well

      It is not like they pay more attention when you call it a church, they just take it as the truth (if they are mower level) or consider you a dupe (if they are higher, or old timers before it became in-house policy to pretend it was a religion.

      Most realize it is not a religion in any conventional sense- It is a point of pride.

      On the other hand, I don’t have to hold public conversations like Tony does.

    • GalacticGreg

      just, that if you refer to it as a ‘chirch’ use that spelling or “cherch” is cool ~

  • woodrose

    Irresistible
    poetry art form, the Haiku
    Could not hold myself to one

    I sent this tweet:

    Mom Sara Goldberg
    Clearwater’s Galileo
    Scientology

    http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/columns/ruth-a-so-called-religion-shuns-a-truth-seeker/ … #TheStaffLife #CCHR
    Get Out Now 1-866-XSeaOrg #HelpIsAvailable

    • richelieu jr

      Lose all your money?
      Poor baby, call Mommy
      Sorry, she’s S.P.

      • Eclipse-girl

        the syllable pattern of a haiku is 5 – 7 – 5

        If this won’t offend you

        Lose all your money?
        Poor baby, call your mommy
        Sorry, she’s an S.P.

        • Espiando

          With apologies to Chris Moyles, I present the true feelings of a male Scilon:

          I love the TRs.
          I love Ron. But most of all,
          I love my penis.

        • richelieu jr

          Dear EG,
          Thanks. I did miscount the second line, however you have 6 syllables in your last one.

          Let’s call it a draw, shall we?

          😉

          • Eclipse-girl

            Yes, please.

            • richelieu jr

              You’re a doll, EG! 😉

            • Eclipse-girl

              and you are a gentleman

            • richelieu jr

              From your sharpie to god’s ears, Mooser.

        • Jimmy3

          That’s 5-7-6, unless my fingers are lying to me again.

          • Eclipse-girl

            My finger counting was off

        • Snippy_X

          Or mabe this:

          Lose all your money?
          Poor baby, call your mommy
          Hubbard’s not your Pa.

    • Jimmy3

      We need you to stop
      Speaking to your only son
      He is PTS

      But do remember
      There is no disconnection
      Destroy this letter

      If they all read it
      They would see we are lying
      So do not upload

      Especially not
      To the Underground Bunker
      That entheta pit

  • richelieu jr

    In French, ‘Culte’ refers to any organized religion, i.e. “Le Culte Catholique”…

    For ‘Cult’ in the English sense, we use ‘Secte’…

    • Captain Howdy

      Typical French contrariness ; )

      • Missionary Kid

        Just a different language.

        • Captain Howdy

          Really? What Lovecraftian language do they speak?

          • Missionary Kid

            Huh?

            • Baby

              It was just a different way to say.. ” No Shit Sherlock..” ( That French is a different language than English..) ; )

              Which I was going to say to begin with..

            • Jimmy3

              So it is different? I was afraid the people at Google would laugh at me if I asked.

            • Baby

              Hahahaha.. You will have to ask Howdy about that one.. I was just going for the obvious Jimmy.

            • Jimmy3

              Nah, the last time I asked Howdy a question he tried to bless me and I wasn’t sure if he was from a church or a cult. I’ll pass on that for now.

            • Captain Howdy

              Bless you my son, for you are the morning, the noon and the night.
              Hey, by the way, what’s on Svengoolie tonight?

            • Jimmy3

              http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0023249/?ref_=nv_sr_1

              I didn’t even know I had this channel until you blessed, good sir.

            • Missionary Kid

              I just thought the comment was off the wall, but then I take nearly everything seriously. I had a long answer, but I figured it wasn’t worth it.

            • Captain Howdy

              It wasn’t worth it. You take nearly everything seriously and I take everything seriously naught. Bless you MK.

            • Missionary Kid

              Blessings from the Cap’n are always appreciated.

            • Baby

              and ya know what Kid. That’s one thing I love about you! You keep us grounded at times.

            • Missionary Kid

              Not really. I’ve gone off the rails often enough here. You guys often keep me grounded.

            • Baby

              Shit.. the Bunker is a Wild Ride for all of us, huh?

            • Missionary Kid

              All Tony has to do is bring up a topic with some relevant points, and off we go. Apparently, this blog was accidentally posted last night, instead of this morning. Between the red X crowd, and the insights and personal stories, and the information that people gather, this can be a lively crowd.

              Shit, Disqus added up my posts, and I’m over 15K. A lot of them have been letting people know that they’re on one of my lists.

            • Baby

              Hahahah.. I know.. and there is something for everyone!

      • richelieu jr

        But of course, CH!

    • Panopea Abrupta

      Inculte

  • Snippy_X

    They are not a church. They lie. I tend to cringe when anyone refers to them as a “church”, with “doctrines” and “scripture” and worst of all, “technology” … I ain’t playing their game.

  • richelieu jr

    It is clear that Hubbard’s attempt was to mislead and to muddy the waters, and every time we call it a church, we help a bit (though Tony’s point about making the contrast between what Scientology claims to be an represent and what it actually does even more flagrant is well-taken. Even more so is his desire not spend days hashing and rehashing the same argument when we could be better occupied closer to the diseased heart of the matter.”

    I am with Jon on preferring the word ‘Organization’, however– Neutral, indisputable, and several orders of magnitude more accurate.

    Personally, I think the adjective ‘criminal’ in front helps as well, but I’ll settle for ‘scam’, ‘dodge’, ‘con’, ‘rip-off’, ‘Scheme’, ‘money-trap’, ’40 Thousand-armed Bandit’, ‘Memorial Association for Fools and Their Money’, “Graveyard of the Whales”, “Olde-Tyme Leeching and Close Shave”, Celebrity Ego-Centre Trick’ adn ‘The Bridge to Nowhere’ (no wonder Sarah Palin is sniffing around…)

    Then again, is there really a dirtier, more embarrassing term than ‘Scientology’? Even ‘Hubbard’ comes in second…

    • Mooser

      “Then again, is there really a dirtier, more embarrassing term than ‘Scientology’?”

      You are right, you know. Mark my words, (print them out first so you don’t get Sharpie on your screen. It doesn’t come off) “Scientology” will become a generic word, like “santorum”. It will; be defined as ” a fraudulent pseudo-scientific or pseudo-religious scam” Used in a sentence: “I thought the salesmen was trying to pull some Scientology” or ” I read his paper, As far as I can see, it’s all Scientology” or simply “You’re full of Scientology!”, or as an epithet, when you’ve had enough arrant bullshit thrust at you. ” Oh, Scientology!”
      It will be, I am sure, an insult, and possibly even, if mis-applied, considered among the “fighting words”: “Your Honor, before I hit him, he called me “a Scientologist” Judge: “He did? Case dismissed!”

  • Observer

    Speaking of R6 implants … anyone ever heard of this band?

    http://nominefactionrecords.bandcamp.com/album/the-r6-implant-demos-2011

  • Sydjazz

    News from the land downunder…
    Our famous scion has just written a book. For someone that is in she doesn’t talk about it much
    http://www.optuszoo.com.au/news/top/news-com-au/966585/966585
    Also can’t wait for 60mins tonight

  • aegerprimo

    Time to play RED X Whack-A-Mole!
    Put on your game face and RED X scientology ads on CL.

    https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/taking-down-co-on-craigslist-co-ads-on-craigslist.113779/page-65#post-2437743
    .

    • aegerprimo

      In the WOG world, only moles live in holes.
      Call 1-866-X-SeaOrg
      The Freeloader Debt is unenforceable.
      .

      • Panopea Abrupta

        Need some guacamole and chips to enjoy these graphix!
        Chapeau, ap 😉

        • aegerprimo

          My posts are not as clever as yours, but I try. ☺

          • Baby

            aeger.. they are darling.. ha.. I love a Good Whack a Mole..

    • Toni m

      Last check for me for tonight. Found three blues in SF bay.
      Have a good sleep/morning wherever you are. Love you all.

    • Toni m

      Love it.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      done…

    • Pierrot

      Excellent, you were on a roll last night, I copied everything for the 4am post. Thanks that is the kind of things that we need to keep the interest going!

      http://tonyortega.org/2014/03/22/jon-atack-why-i-call-scientology-a-cult-and-not-a-church/#comment-1297243226

  • Lurkness

    60 Minutes Australia has posted their previous story on the Cult Busters (the Whitfields) in advance of their upcoming program with Marty. Video is Here:

    http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/videoindex.aspx

    • jeff

      Thank you! Finally a news story that is “new” to me about the cult.

    • Baby

      Oh Lurkness…Watched the entire thing thank you.. I hadn’t seen it before. Any show that has an EX calling Hubs a F*uckin Asshole has my entire support.. Thank you.

      • Lurkness

        Also, Hana Whitfield is fabulous as usual. She is awesome.

        • Baby

          She is.. She presents a compelling story with class.

    • GalacticGreg

      Here’s from the video, they using some footage from a late 1960s Granada Television production. With the release of OT3, and Ron’s Journal ’67 and ’68 – at the height of his (supposed) OT powers, there is Ronald Lafayette, for all his membership to see, with his lower front teeth rotting as he spoke, with his upper right jawbone so rotten, his teeth leave gaping holes after falling out, seen whenever he smiled. Disgusting. Criminal pig.

      • Lurkness

        Here is the whole episode from Granada TV show “The Shrinking world of L Ron Hubbard” It’s 25 mins and you can see his whole rotten being well in his interview.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uiuFJvPih4

        • Freethinker

          I was able to make it halfway through but LRH unctuously lying through his fish lips and rotting teeth was too revolting to bear. I think I’ll go to WWP now and do some more flagging.

          • TDA1541A

            Good show Sir, good show, carry on.

    • Cool. Never saw this one before!

  • Barbara Angel

    ***ALERT for Co$ 7.30pm Chanel 9
    60 minutes tonight Sunday 23 March 2014 Much to Co$’s horror the only time they make the
    news in Australia is when they are being exposed. YAY x 1,000
    The Defector (this is the title of the segment)
    For 17 years Marty Rathbun was a loyal deputy to Scientology’s leader,
    David Miscavige. But then he did what no one in the Church expected: he left.
    Now, Marty Rathbun is speaking out about what he witnessed inside Scientology.
    As the Inspector General, he was responsible for recruiting celebrities,
    including Tom Cruise, and pursuing those who spoke out against the Church.
    Ironically, Marty’s former loyal footsoldiers are now on a campaign of alleged
    harassment against him and his wife Monique. But this time Scientology may have
    met its match because Monique Rathbun has launched a major lawsuit against the
    Church and Miscavige. It could lift the lid on The Church of Scientology’s most
    explosive secrets – and for the first time, see David Miscavige having to face
    some serious questioning.
    Reporter: Liz Hayes
    Producer: Phil Goyen

    • Missionary Kid

      Can’t wait to see it here in the U.S. Thanks Barbara.

    • Baby

      Thanks Barbara.. Woo Hoo.. like Kid says.. Can’t wait to see it in US..

  • jeff

    Off-Topic but where did Max Spaceman aka Asthmatic Dwarf disappear to? Is he in the hole now, too?

    • Jimmy3

      His brother-in-law GalacticGreg moved in and later on they became the same person.

      • jeff

        Body thetan style?

        • Jimmy3

          If one audited out a BT and it had a short life of its own before rejoining its former body, then yes.

    • Sir_Real

      Judging from the helmet tech and avatar name I wondered if Max’s reincarnation was GalacticGreg but who was I to say? I had noticed his absence. Both are/were good chaps in my book.

      • GalacticGreg

        Thank you, Sir R.
        Mine2 :->

    • Jo

      Spaceman is patrolling Target 2, keeping us folks safe.

      • GalacticGreg

        Indeed! Last I saw him, he was way way way out there!

    • GalacticGreg

      Asthmatic Dwarf ~ Max Spaceman ~ Galactic Greg

      — at your service,

      • jeff

        So have you and your brother-in-law become one?

        • GalacticGreg

          I at this moment in time and space Plead the Fifth.

          — The 5th Dynamic, that is.

          • jeff

            Remind me what the 5th dynamic is again?

            • Baby

              PIE.. The answer is always PIE

            • Jimmy3

              Factually correct, with the notable exception of mincemeat. Mincemeat pie is never the answer.

            • jeff

              Amen. And since we’re on the subject are you and JimmyThreetimes one and the same?

            • Jimmy3

              If you’re from the IRS or any law enforcement agency, my answer is no. If you’re just a regular guy, then yes. We are the same and no thetan transaction has occurred.

            • jeff

              Not from the IRS, just remember that link you gave me from ESPN about Lance Armstrong. But I’m not sure as I qualify as regular.

            • Jimmy3

              Yes, it was a B.S. Report episode with the director of the Lance Armstrong documentary after it was released. I listen to that podcast often and you happened to mention it soon after I caught that episode.

            • GalacticGreg

              Jimmy Threetimes is Jimmy3’s brother-in-law.

            • Robert Eckert

              If you just marry your sister, you can be your own brother-in-law.

            • Jimmy3

              You wrong, Bev.

            • GalacticGreg

              right, yeah it’s Jimmy3 is Jimmy Threetimes brother-in-law Bev baby

            • EnthralledObserver

              I disagree… A pie with sauce (and mushy peas if you are that way inclined) and a Coke, are always the answer! 🙂 Or maybe that’s just an Aussie thing…

            • jeff

              Gag me with a plastic thetan!

            • EnthralledObserver

              Were you hail from?

            • jeff

              Born in Pennsylvania, now live in SF. I hate meat pies, though I have visited your fair country three times.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Ah, that explains it then. You probably can’t tolerate Vegemite either. 😉

            • Baby

              I love Pot pies.. Meats, vegetables, gravy.. OMG I make the best..

              OK off to watch my movie.. xo Baby

            • Jo

              What movie? I need to know? I’m a movie freak or weirdo. Anyway… I’ll get my coat 🙂

            • jeff

              Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid

            • Jo

              Eh?

            • jeff

              An older movie on demand

            • Jimmy3

              Pot pie is not really pie. It is pot pie. Separate category entirely. It’s like how some call pizza ‘pie’. Pizza is not pie.

            • Ardent

              Oh, boy! Talk about a heavenly treat! Wooloomooloo here we come!
              (That’s where the best pie & mushy peas are to be had in Sydney Ays,)

            • Baby

              ugh! The absolutely only pie I will NOT eat.. ugh

            • kemist

              I thought it was ceak.

              But pie is ok too.

            • jeff

              Pie > cake.

            • kemist

              But, but, chocolate cheesecake !!

            • jeff

              Ok, you got me with the cheesecake – but that’s really more of a pie, no? I must admit I have a weak spot for flourless chocolate cake as well as red velvet cake, if it”s made right (no air bubbles).

            • Baby

              German Choc cake.. OMG.. I want a piece now! The only thing I will eat with coconut in it..

            • jeff

              I am not a fan of the coconut.

            • Baby

              I know.. Me either.. but for some reason I love it in the Choc German cake.. TO DIE FOR..

            • Ardent

              Have you ever had really fresh, real coconut? That might make a difference. That dried-up junk in packets is often hopeless and ought not be called coconut.

            • Baby

              Yep.. and NOPE don’t Likey

            • Jimmy3

              I believe there is a massive conspiracy to confuse and mislead the public into believing that cobbler is not pie, and to believe that cobbler or pie are not better than cake. Peach cobbler in its proper application is the greatest thing you will ever taste and it should only be referred to by its proper name: Ambrosia.

            • Ardent

              Hi Baby! Hope you are well after your adventures with cocktails!
              I thought the answer was always 42?
              Take care if yourself! Columbo.

            • Baby

              Oh my Favorite Columbo.. Yep, I survived.. I slept it off.. and when I woke up I was starved! 42 it is.. ( With Pie)

              I have been away a lot.. Where ya been ?

            • GalacticGreg

              5. Life Forms
              Surviving with the help of life forms such as animals, birds, insects, fish and vegetation.

  • DodoTheLaser

    Scientology Bridge Chart lists 15 levels of OT. We know that only 8 exist.
    Was it Hubbard falsely advertizing or is it Miscavige?

    • I thought that the old OT 4 – 7 levels (temporarily withdrawn with the release of new OT 4 – 7) were supposed to be tagged on at the end (old OT4 – 7 becoming new OT 11 – 15) but not until new OT 8, 9 and 10 were released.

      Since David Mayo was kicked out this is all academic. It’s not like Hubbard wrote the darned things, and Captain David “he is NOT insane!” Miscavige has other things on his mind (mainly dealing with staying out of prison, but that’s a different matter).

      • DodoTheLaser

        Whoa… I didn’t know that. Thanks, Jens.
        What a clusterfuck of a scam.

  • DodoTheLaser

    So Australian 60 minutes featuring Marty is right around the corner.
    Meanwhile, Dave appears trying to fix his PR in Clearwater. The race is on!

    “Scientology leader tries to heal rift with angry local government
    officials in Florida where the Church has their ‘cathedral”

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2586850/Scientology-leader-tries-heal-rift-angry-local-government-officials-Florida-Church-cathedral.html#ixzz2wlP2HcL9

    • DodoTheLaser

      Liz is 60 Minutes Australia Reporter

      • DodoTheLaser

        The Defector

        • Jimmy3

          This picture reminds me of the joke from the late, great Mitch Hedberg:

          “An escalator can never break: it can only become stairs. You should never see an ‘Escalator Temporarily Out Of Order’ sign, just ‘Escalator Temporarily Stairs. Sorry for the convenience.'”

          • DodoTheLaser

            Yep. Spot the defectors.

            • Jimmy3

              That’s a great book. Overcoming Ups and Downs in Life: How to Use Stairs Without Becoming Sad

            • Charlotte

              Chortle.

    • Sydjazz

      It is on next. Can’t wait

  • I use my long description including the word “church” – in quotes – simply to highlight the fact that this organisation is leeching off the goodwill that society has towards religions (and the tax breaks they get in the less enlightened jurisdictions). The criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology may take a while to type (after all these years, I still don’t use a keyboard macro), but I think it both expresses what I want said and highlights the egregious use of “church.”

    • Ardent

      Yes, Jens, I take your point, and it’s a good one. I just can’t use the word in conjunction with Scientology. It may be because I was raised a High Anglican and simply can’t stomach to tarnish the word with Hubbard’s cynical and criminal misuse of the word. Again though, I respect your point. I suppose it boils down to personal choice, which fortunately, we have.

  • Ardent

    I agree with Jon Atack. I refuse to use the word ‘church’ when discussing or writing about this disgusting scam CULT.

  • David Edwards

    The ‘organisation of Scientology’ seems to be the clear-headed way forward…

    • DodoTheLaser

      Yes, straight to the oblivion.

      • GalacticGreg

        the movie? with Tomm Cruize? Oh boy!

  • Pierrot

    Good Morning Bunkeroos,

    do joint the RED X team for a game of Whack a Mole

    https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/taking-down-co-on-craigslist-co-ads-on-craigslist.113779/page-65#post-2437743

    Thank you Aegerprimo for this new graphic (refresh)

    • Pierrot

      From Aegerprimo:
      In the WOG world, only moles live in holes.

      Call 1-866-X-SeaOrg
      The Freeloader Debt is unenforceable
      Aegerprimo was on a roll last night:

  • DodoTheLaser

    That would be so funny if Tom Cruise is an ex in a closet and may be even secretly reads The Bunker.

    • EnthralledObserver

      I’d be the first to welcome “I’mnotTomCruise” to our little family 🙂

      • DodoTheLaser

        Me too. Same goes for some other “I’mNeverIn’s” 🙂

  • Sydjazz

    Got the pop corn ready for scientology segment on 60 minutes. Yeah marty

    • DodoTheLaser

      See if you can use Tony Tech and give us LIVE updates. No pressure.

  • Sydjazz

    Yay its on now

    • EnthralledObserver

      I have to wait a further ten mins… until after “The Block” is finished.

  • Sydjazz

    Marty rathbun said it is a religious cult

    • DodoTheLaser

      Marty is playing smart. Good start. It’s too early to say it’s a pseudo-religious business.

      • Sydjazz

        They asked monique if she ever wanted to give up. Long pause she said no. Marty looked relieved

        • DodoTheLaser

          Give up what?

          • Sydjazz

            Give up on marty and run for the hills

            • DodoTheLaser

              Gotcha. Thanks. Monique sure deserves respect for number of reasons.

  • Sydjazz

    It was good but they could have said more. But might be extra stuff on online only. Just change your computer clock to australian date and time and you can watch on 60 minutes website

  • Sydjazz

    The usual youtube footage of squirrel busters. Pics of marty on cover of freedum magazine. Marty talking about getting tom cruise back in. Monique says she is too scared to go outside. More youtube footage. Screenshot of court papers. Fly over new mexico. Shot of the marking where l ron needs to land. Joke about no sighting of l ron back yet. Shot of monique looking sad looking out the window. Monique saying she never felt like leaving marty. Marty saying it is a religious cult at the end was the highlight

    • EnthralledObserver

      Aw no fair you already got it!

      • Sydjazz

        Yeah apparently there is a reply going up on the website from scion. Not up yet.

        • DodoTheLaser

          Is 60 Minutes is actually 60 minutes long? It didn’t seem so.

          • Sydjazz

            The segment wasn’t 60minutes long

            • DodoTheLaser

              Oh. My bad. I thought you are watching the whole entire thing on TV.
              Too early. It starts in what – 2 hours from now or so?

            • Sydjazz

              It was the entire thing. About 20 minutes

            • DodoTheLaser

              Well, it’s better than 30 seconds. Why the hell they call it “60 Minutes”?
              This SP is dissapoint. Thanks, Sydjazz. I appreciate your live coverage.

            • Sydjazz

              It is about four segments in 60 minutes 🙂

            • DodoTheLaser

              Is that a TV format?

            • Sydjazz
            • DodoTheLaser

              Thank you! Much better. Such a great PR for the “church”.

            • Sydjazz
            • Sydjazz
            • Robert Eckert

              Both in the US and in Australia, 60 Minutes usually has three stories, each given almost 20 minutes, with a short bit at the end (viewer’s mail etc.)

            • DodoTheLaser

              I guess the good thing about this 20 minutes long “60 Minutes” is that it will reach a lot
              of viewers. Tony’s post on a slow day, has a lot more insight and info than this though.

          • Sydjazz
  • Vanfan

    I agree with John on this one. Words have power and I cannot lend legitimacy to Scientology by calling it a church. But I also don’t want to offend current members regardless of the truth that Scientology is a cult. So I try to avoid the use of either word and just call it Scientology.

  • antibity

    In the sense that Scientology is sanctioned by the US Government since 1993, they are a church, and also a religion. That is, except if you’re referring to the original Mother Church of Scientology, which is neither a church nor a religion. Maybe that was a cult?

    And when in the near of far distant future the US Government de-sanctions Scientology, what will the Scientology organization be then? A cult? A terrorist organization? Lacking the tax exempt sponsorship of the United States, would not the activities of Scientology largely fall under this definition of terrorist act?

    “the threat or actual use of violence to create extreme fear or anxiety in a target group in order to coerce it to meet certain political or quasi-political objectives.”

  • Suppressive Tomato

    I think “cult” is just fine, but here are some other suggestions for those who don’t:

    • Scam
    • Fraud
    • Swindle (I like this one a lot, rolls off the tongue: “The Swindle Of Scientology”
    • Racket
    • Con
    • Hustle
    • Grift

    Some suggestions. Can be used interchangeably for variety in one’s prose.