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VIDEO: Scientology gets a grilling at Chautauqua

Sylvia_Stanard3When we heard that one of Scientology’s mouthpieces would be speaking at this year’s Chautauqua, we assumed it would be a non-event. It’s been a long time since Chautauqua had much of an effect on popular culture or made the news. And we figured the religious liberals at the yearly conference were just trying to be inclusive by inviting Sylvia Stanard of Scientology’s DC national office.

Well, we were right about one thing: Sylvia’s speech was about as interesting as watching paint dry. But if you can get through it, the really good part comes in the question and answer period afterward.

Here’s the full event. Skip past the boring intro and get to Sylvia’s part…

 

 
We were struck by a number of things in Sylvia’s presentation. First, as much as she wants to present a safe-for-the-public version of Hubbard and Scientology, it’s still interesting to see how much Hubbard’s legend has been pared down. Now he merely had some hearing loss during World War II (even though he said he was machine-gunned), and his childhood exploits have been scaled back quite a lot. See what you’ve done, Russell Miller?

Scientology itself is presented as vaguely as possible, of course, but you can see Sylvia struggle because she knows she’s in front of an audience with a Judeo-Christian background, and she has to know that Hubbard said that what they all believe is the result of a mental implant foisted on thetans by an evil galactic overlord. “There was no Christ,” Hubbard said in a notorious lecture aboard the ship Apollo in 1968. So it’s entertaining to see Sylvia tiptoe through the eighth dynamic nonsense — that you can believe in a supreme being if you want to — and otherwise try to sell this stuff to a knowledgeable audience.

And the Chautauqua folks are no dummies. Sylvia gets a pretty hard time from the very polite folks in the crowd after her presentation.

The woman who read the Ron DeWolf quote was confused. That wasn’t Nibs. However, that quote did put Sylvia on the defensive about Nibs, and at that point it was starting to get ugly.

And oh man, Sylvia really referred to Mission Into Time as Hubbard’s “research”? Not even Scientologists try to bullshit each other with that one. Mission Into Time, of course, was the 1968 voyage that Hubbard went on to prove that he’d lived previous lives by digging up old treasure he’d buried during the Punic Wars. That snipe hunt didn’t turn up any treasure, of course. And it has nothing to do with the “research” Hubbard said he did that was the basis of Dianetics and Scientology.

When Sylvia is asked about Xenu and OT 3, she says she’s never encountered it in a book or lecture that she’s seen. She calls the Xenu story “counseling notes” and unpublished material. It’s just something that someone came up with in an auditing session, she implies.

Wow, that’s a whopper.

Sylvia’s dodge on the Cult Awareness Network is also egregious. Yes, it was the Jason Scott lawsuit which eventually led to CAN’s bankruptcy, and Jason was a kid from a Christian cult who had been deprogrammed against his will by Rick Ross. However, there was only a lawsuit because Scientology recruited Jason as a plaintiff, supplied all of his legal work, and then bought CAN when it defaulted. It was a Scientology battle from beginning to end.

These folks in the audience were great, but it would be nice if they had a little more knowledge. Every time Sylvia said Scientologists make “donations,” it would have been nice to point out that they have a friggin price list, with auditing costing hundreds of dollars an hour.

But all in all, we really have to hand it to Chautauqua. They not only gave Scientology the chance to explain itself, they also knew when they were being bullshitted. And they didn’t take it lying down.

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on July 29, 2014 at 14:55

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Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS (We read Scientology’s founding text) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25

UP THE BRIDGE (Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47

GETTING OUR ETHICS IN (Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14

SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING (Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43

PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer

 

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  • Jgg2012

    btw, LRH did compare himself to Jesus (who, he said, was “a step above clear”) and Buddha, so he wasn’t “just a man.”

  • Anonymous

    I could not help but laugh when Sylvia Stanard mentioned the benevolent Scientologist John Carmichael as leading the post 9/11 efforts of the church to provide assistance to the victims and rescuers of that tragedy.

    Here’s a reminder of Mr. Carmichael’s benevolent, humanitarian nature from a 2008 Tony Ortega article in the Village Voice…it’s a hoot!

    http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2008/05/ny_scientology.php

    • Mark Foster

      Ah, yes. He smelled himself in that one…

  • Marta

    A hard earned round of applause to Stanard’s audience for their exemplary manners and astounding restraint in the face of so much bald faced bullshit.

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    I am lovin’ the Chautauqua right now. I especially appreciate the fact that they allow thoughtful follow up.

    • Narapoid

      I haven’t seen the gig yet, but I’ll bet this is the last time thoughtful follow up will be at an event Scios are involved in.

      • Sherbet

        At least she didn’t toss down her microphone and storm off the stage a la Tommy Davis.

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          I’ll bet she ground the inside of her mouth to hamburger by the end of Q & A.

  • DMSTCC
  • i-Betty

    Sylvia Stanard for Tom Cruise’s Wife #4!

    • Jgg2012

      But she’s over 33.

  • Truthiwant

    If Sylvia’s nose were to grow an inch for every lie she told, it would be long enough by the end of the lecture to reach Target Two.

    Regarding donations, it’s good to know that all the money collected is needed “to pay the electric bills”.

    I think the only truth she told was when that gentleman said that Hubbard’s research might be hard to publish in a scientific journal, to which she replied “That’s why we call it religion.”

    • EnthralledObserver

      And yet in many Orgs the electricity bills remained unpaid and overdue… hmmm…

      • They must be doing a lot of electroshock on the side.

  • mo-ron hubbard

    I guess we need to replace all psychiatrists with horses according to Sylvia.

  • anticult

    When the old woman in the audience recounts numerous written accounts of people in black boiler suits being tortured… Sylvia completely dances around the RPF pretending like she’s never heard or seen anything like this? I guess it’s okay to lie in Scientology because it’s for the greater good…. Hmm, I think we need to put ethics in on Sylvia.

    • Jgg2012

      That’s the problem with talking to anyone in the “Church.” Anything negative is entheta. Anything negative is a lie. And so on.

    • nosce

      With scientology anything goes as long as you can say “it is for the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics.”

  • My name is Larry Lester

    Nice technique. Moving from one side to another and cutting the answers fairly short (Imo). Avoidance technique though not that subtle.

  • Pierrot

    *** RED X +–+ RED X +–+RED X +–+ RED X

    Last post from me today,
    We have a good catch of additions since this morning:
    Boston are pushing their ads for foreign students, OC has been very busy.

    The news ads start here:
    http://whyweprotest.net/threads/taking-down-co-on-craigslist-co-ads-on-craigslist.113779/page-106#post-2474409
    The last 48 hours from Hyder & Rip:
    http://whyweprotest.net/threads/taking-down-co-on-craigslist-co-ads-on-craigslist.113779/page-106#post-2474384

    Ty Chutney

    • Sherbet

      Got Boston’s posts. Zap.

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        yup me too

        • Observer

          me three

  • mook
    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Thanks Mook!

    • i-Betty

      Oh no. That’s a shame 😀

    • nottrue

      Oh my god i am so sorry…….

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        With that attitude, you should be a spokesman for the Church of Scientology…!

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      The comment section is run by Disqus. Just sayin’…

      • i-Betty

        Ooh, you’re right…

    • D.Y.G.

      She fucking pulled it in.

    • DeElizabethan

      Good, maybe she will find out that her sh*it does stink.

    • Entertainment weekly also uses Disqus and the comments there are 100% ripping on Krustie, too.

      What I find amusing and/or unusual is that there is no defence of her at all… OSA clams are really quick to stand up for Tom and attack people like me [often with disastrous consequences] but it looks like our Jabba has been left out in the cold in the world of PR comments. Perhaps someone should mention this very fact to her via twitter [Miss Tia?]… maybe a little cognition might sneak in

      • Aslansown

        I just looked at her twitter feed — she evidently now has a duck that likes to fly onto her bed in the morning…..

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        Interesting point, Lush. And isn’t it time for a new post from you? Hint Hint.

        • there’s one up… I always try and get one up at midnight UK time but sometimes it’s a couple of hours late

      • DodoTheLaser
    • pronoia

      Honestly? The show failed on so many levels. I watched a could of episodes out of drive-by curiosity and it was abysmally bad. No surprise.

    • Narapoid

      Here she is before the cult and Hollywood stardom. Fresh outta Kansas. Nostalgic old show, kinda fun clip….

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6uC7SgzTLM

  • Anonymous

    Scientologists angered by the “entheta” questions asked by the DB audience at the conclusion of the of truths forwarded by Sylvia Stanard at Chautauqua.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      This is so very sad, really. These people may have gotten in because of being idealistic (or maybe they were born in) but now they are so beaten down, defeated, and miserable. The one in the middle looks about ready to cry. I want to save them all.

    • Narapoid

      Sleepless, pushed, and hounded. Yeah, they know the way to happiness. This sad photo is Scio, Thanks Anonymous.

  • Narapoid

    Just got home, got one question: did anyone hit her over the head with ACCEPTABLE TRUTH or the “what is true for you is true for you” crap?

  • HeatherGraceful

    I’m impressed by how knowledgeable the crowd was about Scientology, and how skeptical they were, knowing they were getting “spin”.

    • Observer

      That wouldn’t have happened not so many years ago.

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    Just finished listening to the Q and A. The applause at the end is the very textbook definition of desultory.

    Shame on Sylvia Stanard for all her lies. I hope this video will spawn many, many sound bites.

  • i-Betty

    This place (because The Bunker’s a real place – in my mind) and our people really gets under your skin. Tonight I’ve had teary eyes from grief (the PTSD issue, my brother, DYG’s friend, Nola’s dad, Kyle Carpenter) and hilarity (that lot down there talking about brassiere-tech, OTVIIIisGrrr8! and our very own version of L. Ron Hubbard, the shoops, Mark). Thank you for being so weird. I like you all very much 🙂

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      I found my self shaking with rage at some of the lies that Stanard was casually fobbing off: “We just haven’t nbeen given much chance to get our story out there.” What a crock.

      • i-Betty

        They’ve had more chances than any other organised crime syndicate I can think of.

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        Yes, and that they had nothing to do with the bankruptcy of CAN (except that Kenneth Moxon was the lead attorney, oh well).

        • Innoculated

          And the 1000 people (all scientologists) who sued.

      • Innoculated

        Story=fiction

      • Observer

        That’s why I wimped out early to J&D from the sidelines. My crapola limit had already been reached after watching Hana’s video.

        • i-Betty

          Obs, do you have a new home for your shoops? Please may I have the link if you do. I’m going to bed now but I’ll pick it up in the morning 🙂

          I wanted to post your Misogynist Ron Series under EO and Qbird’s comments.

      • Mark Foster

        yes, in the 70´s they were to busy carrying out the largest domestic espionage operation in American history, the poor underdog fucks…

  • Chee Chalker

    In her intro she says she’s been in $cientology for 39 years, and is therefore, very familiar with it. Yet she has never encounteed Xenu? Boy, she needs to redo some levels stat

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      She is OT IV per comments below looking at scientology completions, so she is a Lying Liar who Lies about Xenu. And she repeated 39 years in the “church” several times – but doesn’t remember how long she has been married – 35 or 36 years. I love it!

      • Jgg2012

        She’s married to Scientology.

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          For all we know her hubby is in the RPF or stationed in some other state for years on end…

          • pronoia

            She is not Sea Ogre. Thus the RPF is not applicable. However, other OSA amends are. She could end up on a squirrel buster detail if she is not careful!

          • Jgg2012

            Right, and her child are “doing well” in the Sea Org.

      • Aslansown

        She kept trying to be self-deprecating and disingenuous – laughing off things that really called for an answer.

    • Mark Foster

      She is sparing you death by ¨free-wheeling¨ and pneumonia…That´s what happens to those who read the OT material without the proper mind-fuck, er, excuse me, the correct sequence of payments, ooops, I mean correct sequence of auditing to prepare them to confront the wall of bullshit, uh, no, FIRE…as referred to in the Xenu story of OT 3 with DC 8-looking spaceships…and so on and so forth…

  • Garry Scarff

    I’ve
    known Sylvia for many years & observed her at work. She is a pathetic liar & spin master that has directly engaged in harassment& intimidation of individuals critical of Scientology. She totally distorted the Jason Scott case & it had nothing to do with bankrupting the Cult Awareness Network. I was close to Jason & was personally involved in his court case, which Sylvia refers to. I’m so happy to see that the those at the Chautauqua audience were not going to be sitting ducks for this nonsense by a master manipulator.

    • Innoculated

      She reminds me of “Harry Potter” character–Dolores Jane Umbridge, Hogwarts High Inquisitor (Senior Undersecretary to the Ministry of Magic).

      • i-Betty

        Bang on.

      • EnthralledObserver

        omg – yes! That sickly sweet, sugar-coated giggle, meant to sound innocent, but really sends chills down everyone’s spines.

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    Cannot stay here much longer right now (playing hooky from work), but oddly, I am most outraged by an offhand comment. Stanard, in an aside, stated that L. Ron Hubbard’s first wife “abandoned” him while he was off fighting in World War II. What a vile lie. What a slander against every spouse who ever stood by a soldier during war. And she tossed it off so glibly.

    Creep.

    • Innoculated

      Agree. I’ve just not worked now since 5 p.m.

    • Narapoid

      No bigamy mention either.

    • Artoo45

      Oh don’t worry, Polly and Sara are on their way to see ol’ Hubbs as I type . . .

      • Frodis73

        Yay! That last one was such a cliffhanger.

  • Innoculated

    Just finished watching Chautauqua video. Forgive if I sound repetitive, haven’t had time to read all the comments.
    This was a tough audience for the DC PR person but she managed to evade the most challenging questions. However, if Scientology tries to insert itself into more mainstream interfaith organizations, I rather suspect they will have their comeuppance.

    LRH’s bio which went on forever–(He grew up on his father’s ranch), I thought he grew up in a town and once in a while visited grandfather on his ranch. Doubt a Blackfoot Nation would have “blood brother” ritual. 6 years old–ridiculous. Tribes adopt people into their family/tribe but most likely not a kid this young. We know from more reliable biographers that LRH did not study with Tibetan monks. Sylvia builds this narrative as a journey to seek understanding of the human mind and spirit. It is crafted to point out commonalities. George Washington Univ.–white lie there, implies he finished rather than dropped out. Also mentions Princeton, lot of name-dropping to build the narrative. You realize, had his main interest been the study of the human mind and if he had read the classics at age 7 (implying an IQ of 180), he would have gone onto graduate school and post-grad and wouldn’t have had to be a pulp fiction writer to get by. Talks about researching and discovering man is a spirit having a human experience. Not a new concept to traditional theology. Discovering that man’s main purpose is to survive–that’s new for theology but not Darwin’s earlier ideas which are materialist in nature (not spiritual). So, a paradox there. Self-determinism=self-centeredness or individualism, this is a Western ideology. Admits he borrowed from 10,000 years of wisdom from East and West by stating Scientology has a formed viewpoint of the spirit which is a combination (of other religious philosophies).

    She mentions several times how Scientologists are aware of their wider community, involved in service, though she doesn’t call it that. Read–Front Groups. Self-determinism again (as opposed to cooperation?) Life-long learning (but not in a college or outside of Scientology). Talking point: Freedom–but not the freedom to read what you want, use the internet, think for yourself, or choose to leave your religion without being hassled or tortured.
    Speaks of “immortal spiritual beings” as if reincarnation must be the logical outcome.

    Irony–Scientology promotes the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UN). Unknowingly reveals ignorance of places where human rights are most needed, mentioning Africa, Asia, can’t see under her own nose=elitist, racist.
    Talks a lot about campaigns and teaching others, disaster relief. How about learning to listen to others? Again, this colors Scientology as elitist.

    Really funny; the building campaign, because “there is so much demand and interest for Scientology”.

    Donations, payment. Doesn’t really answer that question. Says “there are many services free to the public, you can get services without money.” Name them. “You can’t donate unless you are a Scientologist.” This means, nothing is free and the first book or course you buy (donate for exchange) makes you a Scientologist whether you like it or not (forever, mind you).

    Questioner: LRH is quite a guy but where does he fit into the Abrahamic religions? Answer: not a prophet, just a man. (There is no answer to this because he doesn’t fit.)

    Favorite bit: “To transition from being one heck of a guy to a religion is quite a stretch.”

    Lie: “it’s most important in Scientology to make families work.” No, it is most important to sacrifice everything to the 3rd dynamic.

    I’m not sure his first wife left him. Rather the opposite. Then there was the bigamy issue.
    Side-steps challenging statements from Ron Jr. (Nibs went back and forth on statements)

    The RPF came up in a question and SP’s. The RPF is never explained. Foot bullet, though, with the statement that there are less than 2 and a half % of SP’s in the world. How religious of us to see our brethren thus.
    “Personal choice”. (But no personal choice if you are in the SO or on staff.)

    The questioners probed but Sylvia deflected or turned her back on questioner.

    Someone please save 18 year old Allison who is interested in Scientology but put off by Xenu about whom Sylvia, an OT, I believe, has never heard of except as stray counseling notes.

    Sylvia is desperate to be done with challenging questioners. Only one Scientologist in the room who wants everyone to pay up and take a course. Brings up state of Clear. More nonsense.

    Saved by the bell pretty much on last question: your position on psychiatry.

  • Narapoid

    From the camera shots of the questioners, the Hoorah Hubbard crap goes to about 40/45 minutes in. I jumped ahead that far so I didn’t have to hear the lying bitch tote the water for the “Bovine Bigamist”.
    EDIT: Questions start at 42:33

    • NOLAGirl

      For anyone else who wants to skip to the Q&A it starts at 43:00 (thank you stillgrace)

  • Simi Valley

    What about that old scilon guy who just “happened” to be in the audience to kiss ass?

    • NOLAGirl

      Only those clowns would manage to mention the price less than three words into their sentence and think it doesn’t give them away. Idiots.

      • EnthralledObserver

        Especially mere minutes ago Sylvia was adamant about the church only accepting voluntary ‘donations’ in exchange – there is no price list, I swear on the cover of Dianetics – er… FAIL!

    • Jimmy3

      I like the couple in front of the camera that get up and walk away as the guy is trying to sell Scientology to the crowd. Good for them.

  • Sarah James

    Sylvia, did you really go there? BP medicine? My mother must have missed the xenu damn memo in 1997.

    I am really glad the people spoke up and I am very glad Sylvia was not in her comfort zone. Hope they visit here for more information and stay for the bigger conversation and always question the evil cult.

    david miscavige, maybe I missed it, but I did not hear your name mentioned once. Why is that?

  • EnthralledObserver

    Lying liar who lied… so many times during that lecture and question time. Wow! Some of the questions were great, but as she scuttled to the other side to avoid their follow-up comments after her lies, they weren’t as effective as they could have been.

  • i-Betty

    Did that superior being just say there are 25 hours in a day?

    1:19:06

    • Ruby

      On the 1;20;22, I think she was a little thrown off by the woman who was trying to get her to actually answer the question asked instead of telling them how wonderful the cherch is.
      Uh oh, Sylvia…you need to do a few more hours of bullbaiting…”flunk, you stumbled on the word memory”.

  • EnthralledObserver

    What got me quite mad was when Liar-pants said Polly and kids ‘left Hubbard’… what is there to say about that?

    • Qbird

      I heard that too EO. (me, oh really?! So that’s how a long term member sees it!).
      His 2nd wife did leave him… the 3rd one too… in a way… all in how you look at it, I suppose.
      This swell guy, this Hubbturd, Man of Mankind just ain’t no good for Womankind, and that’s how I see it.

      • Jimmy3

        He didn’t have a second wife, though. He had a first wife and skipped right to the third wife. Ron was a heckuva guy.

    • pronoia

      It is especially worth mentioning that d.i.v.o.r.c.e was not an easy thing to do in the 40s & 50s.. There was no such thing as a woman filing for a no-fault “amicable” divorce. Anywhere in the USA. Women who petitioned (note THAT word) for divorce did so only under extreme or dire conditions or because they where very very rich . . . and could.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      That infuriated me. Polly was definitely the wronged party.

  • DeElizabethan

    This was interesting. I’m glad the audience was of high caliber and
    intelligent to question the spin given by the PR section of this
    organization. Donations have a set price for each and every course they
    offer and the counseling can go to extreme heights. Then the leader
    makes you redo them all after you reach the top and you pay again OR
    your eternity is lost, they say. I am ashamed to say I was a member of
    this group for years and let myself be so conned. Thank you for this
    informative discourse.
    Edit: On You tube.

  • Ruby

    omg…her answer to the young college girl who brought up Xenu…TOTAL NO ANSWER LIE, implying there is nothing written on Xenu and that it is not a part of Scientology. And then she rudely cuts the girl off, turns her back on her and woks away.
    And THAT is the perfect demonstration of how the whole operation works today… Cover the truth and turn your back.

    • Simi Valley

      And plant a shill in the audience to crow about how wonderful your cherch is.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      She carefully stated that she had never seen it in a publication. That is technically true, as the OT3 material is apparently kept in loose leaf form. So the lie was one of omission.

      • Ruby

        Exactly…not in a book or lecture. Deceiving.

  • i-Betty

    Please head over to the official write-up of today’s scientology lecture at The Chautauquan Daily to either put the record straight or upvote Nola’s. You don’t need to make an account to upvote. Currently Nola’s is the only comment and it’s a really good one.

    http://chqdaily.com/2014/07/27/stanard-church-of-scientology-combines-psychology-theology/

    • stillgrace2

      Be sure and scold the author for not doing her journalistic homework in reviewing Sylvia’s presentation. She needs to learn about real-world journalism before she graduates in December. Send her here. The first upvote on Nola’s comment was mine.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      I upvoted NOLA Girl but there is no way to leave a comment without tying to a real name and I don’t want to out my identity and risk getting disconnected or worse getting my family member RPFed.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      I don’t do FB or twitter or I would.

      • jeff

        Neither are necessary.

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          it seems you need to logon w/ FB, twitter, or wordpress.

          • jeff

            My bad.

      • pronoia

        Very annoying. I have pubic professional twitter and Facebook accounts which I do not want to use and personal ones (which I use sparing) and fucking cookies default to the professional ones and will not allow me to change. Sucks because i think I had a great comment about who Sylvia Stanard real is (liar) and advice to read the Lawrence Wright New Yorker article . Also to google Tommy Davis + Xenu.

        • Jimmy3

          I have pubic professional accounts too for a small seafood business I’m involved with. Check us out on twitter @MarylandsFinest

    • Jimmy3

      I think the Scientology plant from the audience just posted on the chqdaily site..

      • Juicer77

        There is another snarkworthy comment on there by ScilonPlant – genius!

        • Aslansown

          Whoever did that – it’s perfect! Plus the guy named the price for the course right after she had said that anything people paid were donations “to keep the lights on” or whatever.

      • i-Betty

        Whoever wrote that is hilarious…. 😉

    • Tomato Thetan

      Just did it.

    • Michael Leonard Tilse

      Thank you so much for the link!

      I got into being my wordy self and posted an epistle. I hope it has an impact.

      • Jimmy3

        It must be under moderation, because it’s not displayed yet. Did you include links?

        • Michael Leonard Tilse

          It says it is under moderation. I did include some links.

          • Jimmy3

            Yeah, that’s gotta be why. There’s a setting on WordPress blogs (I think it is a default setting) that requires posts containing URLs to be approved. It’s just to prevent spam and malicious links or any unwanted content. It can be annoying.

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              So I put (dot) in the links and reposted. it now shows as a comment. The earlier one is still under moderation.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        can you go back and edit any . to (dot)?

        • Michael Leonard Tilse

          I don’t see any capability to do an edit.

          • Jimmy3

            Nope. But you could copy/paste it here while waiting for it to be approved. 🙂

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              On the website of http://www.tonyortega.org I viewed the video of Sylvia Stanard’s presentation on Scientology in the Interfaith Lecture Series at the Hall of Philosophy.

              I was a Scientologist from October 1975 until I left it in 2003 and began to speak out about my experiences. I have some understanding and history with Scientology that I think might be useful to your Institution in light of Ms. Stanard’s remarks.

              What you listened to was a sanitized, wonderful sounding recitation of Hubbard’s life and of Scientology’s doctrine that leaves so much unsaid it can only be called a self-serving lie.

              It was designed to position Scientology as fitting in with other religions, having common cause. Nothing could be further than the truth. It was designed to sway you into complacency and establish connections and links to your Institution and members that it can call upon in its defense and to influence others. It was the con-man’s patter while the marks are sized up.

              The official term for this kind of presentation is “Acceptable Truth.” Your membership was surveyed to find out what you found valuable and what causes you respond to. What you hold dear. Ms. Stanard’s remarks were carefully tailored to tell you what they wanted you to think without causing you alarm. You were told a truth that Scientology wants you to believe, that you would “Accept.” Filled with phrases like “Every religion is a minority somewhere.” This is standard practice for Scientology.

              You were not told that every major thing a person does in Scientology has a price. In Dollars. With discounts for large buys. With commissions for the sales people. With statistics used to run the organizations like “Gross Income” and “Cash / Bills” and “Bodies in the shop.”

              Or that it is run with policy such as this: “Somebody some day will say ‘this is illegal.’ By then be sure the orgs [Scientology organizations] say what is legal or not.”

              – L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 4 January 1966, “LRH Relationship to Orgs”

              Or this: “The purpose of the suit is to harass and discourage rather than to win. The law can be used very easily to harass, and enough harassment on somebody who is simply on the thin edge anyway, well knowing that he is not authorized, will generally be sufficient to cause his professional decease. If possible, of course, ruin him utterly.”

              – L. Ron Hubbard, A MANUAL ON THE DISSEMINATION OF MATERIAL, 1955

              Or that he was a bigamist, still being married to Polly when he married Sara. Or that his claim of 27 medals for his service in the Navy during World War II was bogus. His Navy record only shows four. That there is a specific training routine that trains Spokespersons such as Ms. Stanard in how to lie easily and effectively. It’s called Training Routine – L. TR-L, L for Lie.

              These are real facts. Facts that would conflict with the carefully crafted schmooze you were fed. With people like myself and many others, far more than a few, speaking out using books and interviews and the Internet about the lies and the destructive culture and acts of Scientology, you actually have a chance to check these facts. To have access to independent research and the testimony of ex-members. There are thousands of them now.

              Back in 1975, critical books about Scientology had been stolen from the San Francisco City Library so I was not able to gain access to the facts Scientology didn’t want me to know. Stolen by Scientologists so that I, like you while listening to Ms. Stanard, did not have access to information that was in conflict with what Hubbard and Scientology wanted me to believe.

              I have written an essay that covers some of my story: “Scientology is Evil and Scientologists are Dangerous.” http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=100838.

              At the very least, please inform yourself. Use Google or other search method and look up “Scientology.” Read what ex-scientologists say about their experiences. Read books such as “Bare-faced Messiah” by Russell Miller.

              Michael Leonard Tilse

            • Free Minds, Free Hearts

              This is great, Michael. Maybe you can repost this over there without the links.

            • Jimmy3

              When you said “wordy” I was expecting a novel, but that is very much to the point and efficient. Well done, sir.

            • stillgrace2

              Bravo, Michael! Try posting it without the links. This essay matters and the people of that institute need to read this.

            • aquaclara

              Michael,
              This is a beautiful response. You’re the best-to be able to synthesize what’s wrong in a few words, without heading into the overload mode….
              Maybe next year, they will find room for you and Tony O on the speaker’s list.

        • Michael Leonard Tilse

          I did that and then reposted. It now shows up.

  • Observer
    • Just Dee

      Great link, thanks!

    • stillgrace2

      That pic is dying for a caption: “You bunker meanies!”

    • I rather noticed a young hot Vixen namerd Sadie, I want her in hotpants prancing about in front of me immediately !!!.

      -Ron, Sexpert Extraordinaire.

      http://files.schuminweb.com/journal/2009/full-size/ideal-org-raid-01.jpg

    • D.Y.G.

      I wonder if she got a makeover and a new suit right before the Chautauqua event. Every pic I’ve seen of her in the last 10 years she looks like the pic you posted. She showed up in New York state looking like a professional. Her hair is even an entirely different color. Very strange.

      • Observer

        She’s on Facebook, and it says her profile pic–which has the new look–was put up in February.

  • jeff

    Bitch has no wits to wrap.

  • Narapoid

    This was easy for this Standard woman to dodge a polite crowd like the Chautauquans and give a lie and go to the next question. She could just give a quick fib, “Xenu is something from an auditing session”.

    David Miscavige will be under sworn oath and subject to charges if he lies. A good attorney will not let up on a flip little fib in deposition. He will grind and squeeze and twist and come back, over and over and over. Nero is gonna need a tranquilizer to get through it. What? Like he’s gonna become a drug-free scientologist now?

  • Listen to that fucking criminal lie. And everyone in the crowd knows he’s a fucking liar,

  • stillgrace2

    I hope someone (with more video talent than me) creates a montage of Sylvia’s specific lies during this presentation interspersed with quotes from reputable, published sources proving that she is lying with an occasional clip of Pinochio’s nose growing and and the Mormon Tabernacle Choir singing “Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire”.

  • Eileen

    Those gentle people, even without deep knowledge of scien, wiped the floor with that woman! She was desparate to end the questions, and they kept her going.

  • so much for Willow Smith “being fed up with the celeb thing’…. she’s now supposedly into another ‘ology:

    Willow Says She’s ‘Into Numerology’ Ready To Share ‘Consciousness’ With New Music

    Read more at http://global.christianpost.com/news/willow-says-shes-into-numerology-ready-to-share-consciousness-with-new-music-123971/#x2dIS6HDgZOv03cg.99

    pic

  • Guest

    Scientology gets raped at 1:11:11

    LOL fuck LRH

  • pronoia

    The VA should fund equine therapy and yoga! Roight.

  • jeff

    “That i’m grasping with” : this Freudian slip, where the words she intends are “grappling with”, ’cause she’s clearly grasping at straws.

  • Juicer77

    She was surprised to find a fellow $cilon near Chicago?? Their numbers must be really slipping, and they know it inside.

    • jeff

      Chataqua is in Western New York, just off Lake Erie.

      • Juicer77

        Oops I misheard Chicago for Chatauqua. My bad! Still, why is she surprised?

        • jeff

          It’s an act….I think he was a plant.

          • Juicer77

            Ya think? 😉

  • Mimi Armagh Parrow

    I’ve loathed Sylvia since the AnonSparrow days. I still loathe her.

  • nottrue

    Lying comes naturally to a scientologist………

    • Narapoid

      Man, if only anyone from the’Bunker had been at the Chautauqua event, this quote (with the date and citation)…

      But, this is Volume I of the Technical volumes. Is that the green or red ones?

      • Mark Foster

        tech vols are red, admin vols are green, so…red.

        • Narapoid

          Ty Mark!

          • Mark Foster

            🙂

    • FOTF2012

      To be fair and balanced, I will share that when I was “in” the above quote did not at all mean that Scientologists should lie, but that lying to people was a way that humans controlled other humans since time immemorial. From that perspective, the quote is taken out of context and is a form of quote mining.

      At the same time, it is quite possible that Ron hid his method of control-via-lying right in plain sight in that quote, for it is ever more clear with the passage of time and its revelations that Ron did no research to speak of, plagiarized good ideas from others, and knew there was no state of Clear as defined in “Book 1” and never any actual OT VIII (as defined as at cause over matter, energy, space, time, life, and thought, both objectively and subjectively).

      So even if that quote wasn’t meant by Ron to be self-referential, it sure turned out that way.

      • DodoTheLaser

        Great points. Thank you, FOTF2012.

  • Mimi Armagh Parrow

    I had to rewatch this, I just love these people that asked Sylvia questions that she didn’t quite have any valid answer for because she sure as hell couldn’t tell the truth. And she’s rude to these people asking genuine questions. That’s scientology fo ya.

    • Sarah James

      In the back of her mind she must be thinking of her future with a tooth brush and a dumpster. She is OSA and her job is to draw in as many people too hurt as she can.

      • Mimi Armagh Parrow

        Seriously. Not to mention, her asinine comment that such a miniscule percentage of people are “suppressive”. Shall we go through the exorbitant amount of idiotic goldenrods issued?

        Her comparing disconnection to a someone leaving an abusive situation or relationship was laughable in a painful, this lady is screwed and she knows it, sort of way.

        • Guest

          “NEXT QUESTION”…. (turns away without answering former question)

          • Sarah James

            Those free to think…are a rough crowd.

  • Ineedcaffeinenow

    The NLRB found that McDonalds is a “joint employer” with its franchises with regard to labor issues. They held that since McDonalds exerted such a large influence over its franchises, it could be considered as a joint employer.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/mcdonalds-regulator-joint-employer-24759335

    Question for any attorneys out there: If this stands, can an NLRB ruling be used in civil courts against, for example, Narconon as a way to hold the main Narconon entity additionally responsible for anything that happened at a franchise Narconon?

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      I wonder about the orgs being joint employers with the mother church if there are issues to do with human trafficking or health and safety violations.

  • Techie

    Slightly off topic, but there was discussion recently about the Scientology end game. I don’t wish for anyone to be found dead weeks after his decease, with a nation-wide manhunt after him. But here is an example of how it could end After Ferry Deaths, Prosecutors See an Empire Built on Corruption from the Boston Globe. Also see here. Parallels to Scientology and Dave Miscavige: 10,000s of fervent religious followers, choreographed big events (no stryofoam Greek column tech but big photos galore) fraud and inurement on a grand scale including a floating death trap. The religion part is not so space alien apocalypse oriented but otherwise there are definite similarities. Of course, the Scientology disaster causing hundreds of deaths at sea hasn’t happened (yet). If OSA clips this post and serves it to you with your orange juice Dave, consider this. Scientology doesn’t work, never has, never will. Even if LRH came back he couldn’t “fix” it, and it is certain your amateurish efforts will only result in more collapsed stats and ruined lives. He isn’t coming back. You could end it without going to jail or having to hide out from the law. You could even get out with your golden parachute intact. Just shut it down, pay back all the refunds and claims, settle the lawsuits and walk away a hero. Free the slaves, heal the injured, reunite the families, save the whales. Which will it be Dave, Yoo Byung-eun, Howard Hughes, Al Capone or the hero that saves the day?

    • Captain Howdy

      Moon wanna be, eh? Another example of how relatively easy it is to start a religion/cult.
      It never ceases to amaze me.

  • Guest

    Those people asking questions show far too much human decency… her answers to them are so disingenuous

  • Lurkness

    Hubs meets commander Thompson on trip to NYC via Panama Canal and “they didn’t have much to do” at 13:40ish in video. How does she manage to leave out the masturbation tutorials in Hubs life experiences?

  • Lurkness

    oh yes, the trips to Asia…lying OSA-bot, read and tell what he actually said and thought. LRH recorded his impressions of the places he visited and disdained the poverty of the inhabitants of Japan and China, whom he described as “gooks” and “lazy [and] ignorant”. LTH concluded of the Chinese: “They smell of all the baths they didn’t take. The trouble with China is, there are too many chinks here.”[

    • Sarah James

      Sounds like the group of people she talked “at” like to read. LRH own words do scientology in. He disliked black people, babies, children, women…
      Let’s all take a moment to thank xenu, for LRH wrote it all down.

      • Lurkness

        And it’s gospel to scientologists!!!

  • rom661

    God, she’s just a fucking liar. OTIII came from members of the church?

    • Lurkness

      Technically, LRH was a member.

      • rom661

        True. But realistically, that was not at all was she was trying to pull off.

        • Lurkness

          I know…just joshing with you.

          • rom661

            OK, I need a drink. Too serious tonight. Just pisses me off to watch this BS. Have a good evening.

            • Lurkness

              Agree. She is (and they are) a piece of work. Have a good one too!

            • Sarah James

              I am bit worked up also. Would like to place dianetics somewhere Sylvia would not misplace it.

            • rom661

              OK, am now sipping a nice single malt. May I add that not only would she not displace it, she would have significant problems dislodging it….

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Well, I don’t do Facebook and Twitter, but if I did, this is what I would write to Kelsey at the Chautaugua Daily:

    TO: Kelsey Husnick. You are graduating in December as a major in magazine journalism.

    I find that disturbing. Your review completely disregards your own audience comments and views and
    copy/pastes scientology’s OSA PR propaganda and spokesperson without using too much thought or, you
    know, journalism. By the way, OSA is scientology’s spy and harass intelligence wing. Spy/intelligence wings are nowhere mentioned in your article. You can’t cover scientology without mentioning their spy/intelligence wings.

    I don’t know what credits you are getting for your words, but as someone who has personally suffered, who has personally known thousands of people and their families, including little children, whose lives were devastated and destroyed by this abusive, human rights organization, who has lost over a hundred friends and associates to early, avoidable deaths, I am outraged by this irresponsible lack of both research and disregard for the trail of tears this group has left in its wake.

    I’ve been in, up, down, around, even in the dark bowels of the Sea Org for over 40 years. I now speak up where I can to inform and educate and give a voice to those who were silenced for those decades. People died trying to warn others, to speak, to tell their stories that a billion dollar organization did everything to suppress, and that is why I find your canned, parroted response deeply offensive. If you want to be a real journalist, read up on any given day any of Tony Ortega’s “The Underground Bunker” coverage on this near extinct curse on our communities, or Lawrence Wright’s, “Going Clear – Scientology, Hollywood and The Prison of Belief”, or how about the current leader’s own niece, Jenna Miscavige Hill’s, “Beyond Belief – My Secret Life Inside Scientology and My Harrowing Escape.” These are real journalists.

    Children are used as slave labor and mentally stressed to the point where some never make it out whole again. That, Ms Husnick, is what you are promoting as a new “religion” in your own backyard. I sincerely hope if nothing else you read what the children, as adults now, have to say at www (dot) exscientologykids (dot) com and write another article before you accept any diploma as a point of simple integrity. Get back to us after you have researched Their stories. I thank you for any consideration you might give this matter. Because it does matter. It matters to us all because these are All our children.

    from: TheHoleDoesNotExist

    • stillgrace2

      Applause. Applause. Now, that’s what I’m talking about. She needs to read this … if not in the comments, then in an email.

    • Frodis73

      Standing ovation for that one hole.

    • nat-lificent

      I haven’t met a kid capable of real research since I started teaching in 2005. No matter how many times you show them why it is important they don’t understand why they should bother. I finally just quit teaching two years ago rather than contribute to the fraud that is public education.

      • Jimmy3

        I just researched ‘research’ on Wikipedia, and I think you’re right, but I’m still not sure.

      • Mooser

        Nat-lificent, I’m over 60, and it all seemed pretty simple to me. America, for the most part, decided to destroy its public school system rather than integrate it (And I mean that in the broadest possible sense, not just black-white). They would rather have their kids illiterate than integrated
        Besides, wasn’t their a Federal Law passed (during the Reagen administration, no doubt) which decrees all American children can only grow up in the 1950’s, no matter what year it is?.

        • One thing the high school I worked at was really good at was making sure black and latino boys were watched like hawks, labeled as “gang members” and sent down the road to nowheresville or prison.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        That is too friggin’ sad to hear, Nat. I have a university professor friend and she tells me it’s getting tough. Now, this is one of the toughest ladies that has gone through hell without a water bottle.

        Now if she was writing about Beiber or Situation, I wouldn’t care. But when you covering an organization that does what it does to children, much less adults, careless fluff pieces just are unacceptable. 🙂

    • aquaclara

      Sending you big hugs, Hole. This is a tremendous response. I hope this gets to her….

    • Mark Foster

      Beautiful. You smashed that one out of the park! Thank you for your articulate and righteous(in the best, most loving sense) indignation. I heartily co-sign!

    • Scream Nevermore

      I do FB – I can post that into the Daily for you…

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Thank you. I would appreciate that very much.

        • Scream Nevermore

          One thing – the byline on the Sylvia Does Scn article is Quinn Kelley. You refer t a Kelsey Husnick. Am I looking at the wrong article??

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist
            • Scream Nevermore

              It did indeed, and your words are now up there. 🙂

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Thanks again. I was just about to copy and send to the editor when you popped up! 🙂

            • Scream Nevermore

              You should do it anyway, in case she doesn’t read the comments on her own features!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Sent to Sara Toth, Asst. Editor:)

            • Scream Nevermore

              Excellent!

  • Silence of the Clams

    Tough afternoon for Sylvia. Oh well….

    Very boring dissection of an un impressive writers life followed by a pummeling by the public. And as is expected, Sylvia ‘stands tall’ for a little bit and then becomes ‘unhinged’ about halfway through. And it’s while this breakdown is happening that us outlanders peek in and wonder how one gets this way. Suddenly it’s not about scientology or this event. It’s about how someone – when faced with voluminous evidence discounting her faiths practices – can seemingly wash away the egg on her face and soldier-on. She is clearly annoyed as people keep peppering her with reality. Her answers are shorter, more opaque and she is quick to ‘move on’.

    Sylvia knows she is lying. It is evident early on. So why lie? Why make a daily practice of it? Is it done out of fear (and hey, there is nothing wrong with feeling that way Sylvia, most religions use fear as a tool to keep the free thinkers in line)? Has she invested too much to bail now? Could it be that disconnection is real?

    Fuck Sylvai and fuck Daev.

    What I take from this video is that the public shaming of this cult is working. There is no redeeming message, no mission and no mantra. The brand is ruined. Guess who ruined it? Yep…it was you Daevy boy. Ron beat you again. At least Ron knew how to capture the publics attention. You, Deav, can’t seem to muster any respect. I guess it’s ironic that you have been Rons ruin. You are destroying his vision…which amazingly makes you even more fucked up than him.

    It’s like deepak chopra in reverse (and equally impressive). The only positive response was from a plant sent there to bail this poor cultist out of a complete ‘no-hitter’. He didn’t help much but the guy should get some points for trying.

    • Tracy Schmitz

      well said!

  • Free Minds, Free Hearts

    OT but it looks like someone is trying to sell a custom made scientology ring for $245 on eBay – guess they have cut loose from the cult and have no need for it… http://www.ebay.com/itm/Custom-Handmade-Scientology-Ring-Gold-Silver-/291202548517

    • here’s a pic with description for those who don’t want to link out

      • Lurkness

        what’s the gold weight? Might buy it to melt it down.

        • DodoTheLaser

          Jefferson Hawkins threw his golden Sea Org veteran ring into the ocean. Just saying.

      • Mooser

        Well, that ring is pretty cool, but it can’t match the Scientology tattoo which became an anti-Scientology tattoo! I guess it all depends on how you look at it. But I’d rather not.

  • Lady Squash

    I was offended by so much of Sylvia’s presentation, I hardly know where to start. Taking up so much time with how Hubbard was a cowboy and how somehow that impacted Hubbard and somehow had something to do with Scientology. Please! And I hate that PR line about psychiatry–it’s just the abuses we are against. No it isn’t. Hubbard and Scientology are out to destroy psychiatry. Why? Because according to Hubbard psychiatrists are responsible for all the evil on the planet. I’m not kidding. Ever been to the Scientology Museum of Death? There you’ll find out psychiatrists were responsible for the Holocaust. And Free Services! Please. I was IN for 35 years–show me a fucking free service! What unadulterated crap! Is she that brainwashed or what!

    • FOTF2012

      I would add that Hubbard taught that the “psychs” were responsible not only for events on Earth, but all through the universe for trillions of years on the “Whole [Time] Track.”

      Yes, the speaker was well drilled and presented herself well enough overall — from the view of anyone who did not know all that much about Scientology. The problem is she is defending a now toxic brand, made ever more so toxic by the sharing of knowledge, facts, and experiences on the web.

      • FOTF2012

        1PS Science indicates the universe is some 13 billion years old. However, Hubbard knew better, getting off by a factor of 1,000,000 or more as he inflated the universe into quadrillions of years.

        And yet oddly, he didn’t understand that the Milky Way was not an island universe (as he called it in one of his lectures, parroting the belief scientists held earlier in the 20th century that our galaxy was it — before we realized that lots of those other things were other distant galaxies).

        How odd that a man who could pinpoint events to the second back to trillions of years before the universe was even here, yet somehow could not even learn to pronounce “galaxy” correctly, misunderstood the speed of light, failed to understand radiation, and thought the whole universe was the Milky Way …

        But hey — we cannot challenge his “science” because it is really religious belief!

    • Mark Foster

      Nope, she´s ¨handling¨ the ¨wogs¨ . THIS is the arrogance of a die-hard cultist on display. I remember being infected with the same disease. It´s an insane ¨must-tell-can´t-tell ¨ scenario: I have the ¨ tech, ethics, and
      admin¨ that can ´save ´ you, but can´t be open about what it actually is because that would be too ¨out-gradient¨ for your puny wog intellect to grasp…Hence, my earlier comment about both her and Hubbard being full of shit…

  • KNMF

    ha. Scientology should avoid public Q&As at all costs, or it could get nasty. Stanard was saved by the bell.
    The only Scilon commenter recommended that everybody shell out $150 for a course

    Stanard is Scientology’s best and brightest, and she was grilled up to the last second.
    Unfortunately she’ll add this speaking invitation to her bloated resume. She almost cried at the Pentagon, wait…she did cry at the Pentagon, several times in fact.

    • Jimmy3

      It’s alright cuz she’s saved by the…
      It’s alright cuz she’s saved by the…
      It’s alright cuz she’s saved by the bell!!!

    • FollowTheMoney

      Ha ha, that’s exactly what I thought. The one scientologist who spoke tried to sell something. That said it all.

  • Lady Squash

    And oops, she just forgot to talk about the State of Clear (until asked) the very focus of the book, Dianetics, and instead blathers on and on about Scientology’s social betterment activities. Auditing (SCN therapy) is a very self-absorbed activity. That wouldn’t go over well with Christians who are all about being of service to others.
    And she conveniently left out a key point about auditing. The auditor “listens” to your answers to questions dreamed up by Hubbard that are compiled into something the Church calls Rundowns. She made it sound like a cozy fireside chat. It’s nothing like that at all. Hubbard (through the auditor) is essentially saying “And this is what we are going to talk about today and we’re going to do it my way. I’ll ask the questions and you’ll answer.” It is so disingenuous to imply that the auditor’s role is to listen and leave out the rest. And she failed to mention how much that “therapy” costs. What a load of crap. Sorry for my language.

    • Tracy Schmitz

      and they ask waaay too personal and intimate questions that anyone with a sane mind would think “what the hell are you (my ahem, religioin!) asking me this! what business is of yours! and would actually be totally weirded out and leave so fast it would make their head spin.. oh and they are going to write down what you say and keep it in a personal file/folder for safe keeping too!! and NO, it’s not like a catholic confession! the priest doesn’t ask YOU questions, you tell him whatever you want. do you think ( i was raised catholic) i ever told a priest ANYTHING and EVERYTHING? of course not! it was simple ” i was mad at mother” or i was jealous of a friend” or something that mundane! and nothing else! certainly not questioned and interrogated by a “auditor” and my inner most thoughts expected to be told and written down and of course not hooked up to some stupid amateur e-meter!

      • Lady Squash

        Thanks for sharing the specifics of your Catholic Confessions. I was a Catholic for two years and never really got the hang of Confession. But “I was mad at my mother” makes total sense. I know I am digressing but I have been rethinking the concept of sin. If the God/Jesus was “love” then any negative emotion–hate, jealousy etc, could be considered a sin. Very simple. Very Clear. Thank you.
        The whole idea of naming your PC (pre-clear) folders Confessionals always struck me as so WEIRD. The basic premise of SCN was to “rid” you of your engrams. Then this whole “confessional” idea crept in. Very WEIRD to me.

  • Scott Gordon

    At 13:13 of the video we now have an admission on record from an official “Church PR” that Commander Thompson accompanied the 12-yr-old Ron Hubbard to the Library of Congress. This is where he “found” Aleister Crowley’s “Book of the Law,” which, if you care to follow the McClaughry’s research on mikemcclaughry.wordpress.com implicates this relationship as young Hubbard’s probable initiation into a future career in Naval Intelligence and covert operations including mind control.
    -WATCHFUL NAVIGATOR

    • Captain Howdy

      “Hubbard’s probable initiation into a future career in Naval Intelligence and covert operations including mind control.”

      Does Alex Jones and Margaret Lake know about this?

      • Scott Gordon

        But Captain Howdy –

        http://mikemcclaughry.wordpress.com/2013/04/17/scientology-roots-chapter-twenty-one-3-the-first-scientologists-and-their-masters/
        There are those who are happy to laugh at and ridicule Hubbard for his charlatanism. And there are those who dare to confront the depths of evil this whole operation really stemmed from.

        • Tony Ortega

          Please spare us.

        • Mooser

          “And there are those who dare to confront the depths of evil this whole operation really stemmed from.”

          Why don’t you just come out and say it, Scott? Enough with this “depths of evil” crap. You think I did it, don’t you? Well, you can think that if you want, but you will never prove it, and I’ll see you in hell before you do!

    • Scott Gordon
      • Jimmy3

        That guy sold out Arnie Lerma and how many others for a grand, and his useless e-meter was worth $700? So his loyalty was only worth $300 more than some cheap circuitry. What a snake.

        • Captain Howdy

          This dude is a batshit crazy conspiracy oathkeepers whack-a-doo..and i dislike them way more than scilons.

          • Frodis73

            I see that…I just read some….interesting, yeah, interesting stuff. lol

          • Tony Ortega

            Mind control. Trutherism. Alex Jones. Just the kind of guy who you want testifying for you in court.

            • Captain Howdy

              HaH! Exactly.

          • Jimmy3

            Yeah, screw all that, and his angle on Hubbard, too. But that bit about Sylvia Stanard buying a hard disk seemed awfully specific to be pulled from thin air. And I’ve heard there is doubt as to Arnie Lerma’s credibility, but Arnie confirmed he switched web servers around that time, and another guy confirmed knowledge of the guy in question. So am I to believe that is a fictional story because some of his other beliefs are looney?

            • Captain Howdy

              That part of the story sounds plausible because for one thing it doesn’t involve the CIA kidnapping children in the Midwest to be turned into brainwashed sex slaves who will be sacrificed making snuff films at Bohemian Grove.

            • Jimmy3

              That’s complete bullshit. They don’t film the ritualistic sacrifices at Bohemian Grove.

            • Captain Howdy

              Ask Hunter Thompson if you don’t believe me! They hired him to make the videos..wait a minute..nevermind.

    • Tony Ortega

      This is the clown who put Yulia Keaton up to her reckless infiltration of the Sea Org which could have put her into serious legal trouble and might have made it even tougher for her to get her kids back.

      • Scott Gordon

        Wrong, Tony. This is the guy who when Lia had no one else to turn to, took charge of her welfare and saw her out safely. I knew she was going, but I – like many others – tried talking her out of it. When it was clear that she was determined to go anyway, I looked out for her safety. I helped her transition back to trying to reclaim custody of her kids and testified in court on her behalf on April 29, 2014.
        The whole story in Lia’s words, is here:
        http://fromflorida2california.wordpress.com/

      • Scott Gordon

        Tony – are you going to let your comment stand?
        It is not true and it is libelous.

  • Frodis73

    I just re-watched the Q&A part and I really wish the lady at the end could have gotten to ask her question (about mental health) earlier. She has spunk! I love when she jumps back in & says I don’t want to hear your spin on this. LOL. I also noticed when Sylvia says we are against the abuses in psychiatry, the lady asks ‘how is that different than the abuses mentioned in those books’ or something along those lines. That was awesome & she totally has Sylvia’s number.
    I think the guy at the end even knows it’s a bunch of shit as he encourages everyone to research more. They are *toast*. It’s over lil wee one…throw in the towel, the sooner the better.

  • scnethics

    She did a decent job of pretending she was surprised that one of the audience members was a scientologist. The rest of her lies, not so good.

  • Captain Howdy

    I was just watching a documentary about ISIS and they put out a monthly magazine & annual report (400 pages long) that is way more slick and professional than anything I’ve seen by the unchurch of lientology.

    Even the crazy jihadi’s have their act more together than Cof$

  • Pierrot

    *** RED X +–+ RED X +–+RED X +–+ RED X
    Good morning Europe & Night Owls,

    We have the last posts for the 29th of July and some posts already for the 30th
    The 29th & 30th of July:
    http://whyweprotest.net/threads/taking-down-co-on-craigslist-co-ads-on-craigslist.113779/page-106#post-2474409
    The previous 48 hours:
    http://whyweprotest.net/threads/taking-down-co-on-craigslist-co-ads-on-craigslist.113779/page-106#post-2474384

    FREELOADER Debt is ILLEGAL and CAN’T BE ENFORCED.
    DON’T route out, BLOW, Get HELP, get OUT. CALL 1-866-XSEAORG

    Ty Mark

  • Meri

    Once she escapes the RPF Sylvia’s forms her own girl band.

    • Sarah James

      She would fit right in.

  • HipsLikeCinderella

    There are endless things about this lady’s “religion” that I don’t agree with. But for me personally their rejection of mental health care really hits close to home. I have been on medication since I was 14, as well as in therapy off and on. Not trying to sound over dramatic but it’s saved my life more than once. I would not be here otherwise. Scientology infuriates me.

  • Susie Cross

    Scientology May be dying, but it has a lot of money for life support.

  • anoni81b4u

    I kept waiting for her nose to grow

    • Sarah James

      lol.

  • Krew13

    Hilarious how she starts off by trying to appear all friendly and humorous with her fake laugh. “That’s a good question!”

  • Krew13

    Well done to the lady who asked about people being harassed and shunned by family. And of course the Sciloon bitch’s response was pure bullshit.

  • Krew13

    As an atheist, one of the few times religious folks seem sensible are when they’re in the same room as a Scientool. Well done to the Christians here for not swallowing this bitch’s lies.

  • Krew13

    I hope none of the people who asked difficult questions have since been followed and harassed. There’s no way the Sciloons would have attended this event and not monitored the questions and answers to make a note of anyone who made critical comments or asked embarrassing questions.

    • Mooser

      “I hope none of the people who asked difficult questions have since been followed and harassed.”

      I doubt it. Those Chataqua folks are tough. And they swing (especially the ladies) hard and fast!

  • Krew13

    Ooh, love the question from the woman at 56:30 who said she was married to a Sciloon and was forced to get a divorce because she wouldn’t become a Scientool. Her reading out the “invent a new religion” quote was dynamite!

  • Krew13

    Maaan, the old lady who said she’d read 5 books on Sciloonery was awesome!

  • Sidney18511

    I hope that after hearing this bullshite that the audience went “on the google” (as my 84 year old mom calls it) and found out the scary truth that is Scientology.
    And props for the excellent questions asked, except for that old man who was obviously a plant.

    • shasha40

      So frickin obvious . Then he starts telling the whole audience how they should all go out and do the ” Ups and downs course ” for $100 . They have No fucking shame !!!

      • Mark Foster

        Ah! I have very special deal for you! You like! $ 100.00 cash! You, never the same again!!!

        • shasha40

          *Cue creepy horror music * Run !!!! Bol !

        • Jgg2012

          We’ll help make your wallet lighter so it will be easier to carry around.

      • HipsLikeCinderella

        So great how she lied out her ass about “we only take donations” yet here the plant is telling people to take a $100 class! I had never heard of a religious group charging for spiritual counseling till I started reading the stories from ex-scions.

        • shasha40

          I’m with you , and the audience was pretty awesome asking good questions where she tried to run from the serious issues with denial …smh

      • Scream Nevermore

        You can hear his voice shake when he mentions the course – interesting reaction.

        • Robert Eckert

          A little “ups and downs” in his voice? Scientology could help him with that!

    • HipsLikeCinderella

      Yea that guy was a wee bit over-enthusiastic.

  • shasha40

    I watched most of it and just kept getting more and more pissed as each lie came out of her mouth ! There were so many I lost count , I almost threw my tablet across the room yelling at that bitch in the box , but stopped upon realizing it was mine ! Lol ! But my favorite line was Sylvia explaining their anti drug program and how with the knowledge of what it does to them people can think well, ” its not for me , its a trap .” Ironically that would also be an accurate description of COS , ” a trap ” !

  • FOTF2012

    In reflecting further on the Chautauqua talk, I found it irksome that Scientology fundamentally misrepresents itself as a religion. Like some strains of the three largest monotheisms, it is dead certain it is the _only_ right way.

    And despite the statement that Scientology started as a church in 1952 (which is technically true I think), I saw what happened first hand in the 1970s in missions (which before that were sometimes called centers) when all of a sudden the Sunday services, the white priests collars, the Crowley-Tarot crosses, and the various liturgies appeared. Literally appeared within the course of a week or so for one reason: Scientology had to keep up a religious appearance. Nothing else had changed. There was no vote, no discussion, or anything like that. It simply came as orders from above — from Ron — and so it was done.

    Prior to that, in my experience, Scientology often referred to itself as an applied religious philosophy. Much more palatable to the common ear, but not worthy of 501(c)3 tax exempt status. So it retooled itself.

    I actually have no problem with Scientology calling itself a religion, but I do not mean it as a compliment that it can fit into that category of human thinking and behavior. My main objections to Scientology, as I continue to refine them are:
    — It is a pseudoscience, pretending to research and proven results that have been falsified
    — It is fraudulent — it does not deliver what it claims in services, training, or employment
    — It is exploitative of our highest human dreams and aspirations
    — It is psychologically ignorant, robbing many of much needed help
    — It is based on lies and plagiarism in significant areas
    — Its founder was at the least of poor character, at worst may have been seriously mentally ill, making his overall work suspect, fairly or not as to some points of his claims

    So, “Scientology — go ahead and be a religion. That’s frankly no great mark of honor. But quit claiming to be things you are not, quit claiming you are scientific in any regard, and quit claiming to be able to do things you cannot do.”

  • So nice to see this horrible woman sweat on the stand. I loved seeing her so uncomfortable trying to dodge the questions. I loved hearing educated people asking extremely pointed questions.

    I was sad to hear that the college freshman’s only interest was Xenu. This is why Scientology keeps nabbing these kids even today. “The internet is unreliable.” “The internet” is an amalgamation of virtually all the knowledge ever amassed by the human race and hundreds of millions of interpretations of it. The only thing that is unreliable is a person’s ability to decipher useful sources of information from hogwash, and that has been and would be true with or without the invention of the internet.

    • shasha40

      Bol , Derek , I too very much enjoyed watching her squirm attempting to find just the right words to go down nicely ,like a spoon full of sugar to help the lies sound better !

  • Scream Nevermore

    She is a really boring speaker. Spouting crap doesn’t help, admittedly.

  • Suzy

    That is one big defensive sounding ramble. I’m at 39 min. Wish I could see the audience’s faces.

  • Suzy

    Love the lady who says “I don’t want to hear your positive spin on the story”

  • Camilla Andersson

    She knows that if she does not answer correctly and takes care of this matter well, she is in the s___ hole with DM! She might no longer be that DSA for DC Org! THAT’s what she is sweating about, not the truth or how that audience likes what she has to say!!

  • God, what I’d give to debate that bloated buffoon in front of any audience.

    • JackTheGiantKiller

      Skip, on the battlefield of intellect I’m afraid you would be totally destroying an unarmed opponent should she even be so foolish to engage you in that debate. Like all of David Miscarriage’s active brainwashed henchmen her ability to think independently was long ago bypassed.

      When she doesn’t want to answer a question that actually knows the answer to she lies (e.g. when asked about Xenu and the volcanoes). When she is compelled to provide an answer at all she cobbles together a collection of disjointed verbiage based on the $cientology rhetoric she has been steeped in for 39 years. (e.g. She’ll say something to the effect, ‘Let me reply to xxxx’, after which she never provides a definitive answer. It is as if the sound of her voice is [supposed to be]
      sufficient…)

      (On a side note, notice how many times she refers to being a $cilon for 39 years. It is telltale. She may be subliminally questioning her involvement. The contexts in which she refers to her 39 years are not occasions where she is trying to leverage that experience as a way to establish or reinforce credibility. That slight sense of amazement and “wow” she reacts with is curious.)

      Her core modus operandi is to avoid debate chiefly by attempting to hijack/change the subject. Even there she is abysmally weak.

      Destroy her as you wish…

      • Yeah, that’s the problem with a largely Christian audience such as that one – they’re generally too polite in the face of evil and have a hard time recognizing it – which is how Hubbard managed to build his doom pit.

  • mo-ron hubbard

    Regarding PTSD she keeps saying that she went to this “hearing” on it a couple of weeks ago.

    Sylvia, get this straight. Nobody believes your stupid Co$ hearings like your show on the history of Psychiatry. Get this through you head.

  • John

    I find it fascinating that the Church would put one of their representatives in this situation. I can’t remember the last time they answered a question in public or made a live spokesperson available for comment. They know that this is being videotaped, they know what they are going to be asked about, they know it will look bad. I think it’s a really big deal that they put themselves in this situation. They loathe having to deal with the Why We Protest movement, and they had to know that the group knew about this discussion and some ugly questions could get asked.

    Any event like this one fascinates me because ever since Tommy Davis was fired and tried to blow I can’t recall an instance where they had a spokesperson available for comment on TV or at an event. I don’t think I’ve ever seen Karin Pouw on TV or speak.

    On the other hand if you are going to make public appearances where you encounter with the public rarely this is probably a good place to make one. I had never heard of Chautauqua before and it seems this event gets little to no press in national news.

    I’m guessing that this is the fine line you have to walk when you want to be considered a religion but aren’t really a religion. You have to live in a fantasy world, but still make it clear that you’re legitimate by associating with other religions.

  • Will C.

    Wow! Just – wow. Amazing to watch this.

    If only we could see more public forums like this where Scientology is called out on their BS.