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‘BARE-FACED MESSIAH’ back in print: Our interview with author Russell Miller

Russel_Miller2

 
Today is Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard’s 103rd birthday, and do we have a gift for him!

A year after Hubbard died in 1986, the best book ever written about him was published by a British journalist named Russell Miller. Bare-Faced Messiah: The True Story of L. Ron Hubbard was immediately sued by the Church of Scientology all over the English-speaking part of the world, but only in the United States was the church successful at shutting it down, and only a small number of copies have been available here. But now, Miller’s book is getting new life as Humfrey Hunter’s Silvertail Books (the same UK publisher who put out John Sweeney’s book Church of Fear) is releasing Bare-Faced Messiah in hardback and as an e-book. Copies started arriving this week, and so we had a conversation with Miller about his book’s struggles, the harassment he went through personally, and what he thought of The Master.

 
It’s been 27 years since Bare-Faced Messiah was first published, have you kept up on what’s been happening in Scientology since then?

I haven’t really kept in touch with it. I’m not sure how things are different. At least this time they haven’t tried to sue me. When Bare-Faced came out, they sued me essentially everywhere. My American publisher fought it as hard as they could for two years, and they just went mad. Scientology was going to keep suing me in one court or another. This will be the first occasion when the book will be published in the United States.

I understand that this project began as an article that you were doing for the Sunday Times?

It was before Hubbard died. He had disappeared. Nobody knew where he was. Those were the days when the Sunday Times had good funds for pursuing investigative projects. I suggested we should try to mount a serious search for a worldwide scoop. But either way we’d have a good story to run. I knew he was in California. And I ended up in the San Luis Obispo area. I knew we were close. Then, after I got back home, I woke up one day and learned that he had died.

So by then you had enough for a book?

It went straight to a book. The Sunday Times serialized it in three parts, just before the book was released. And the Sunday Times became a target. People were talking their way into the office to snoop for information.

You went through some harassment of your own.

Oh sure, yeah. It started off with, the first thing they did, when I was in California doing some research, one of the early interviewees said to me, “Are you being followed?” And I said no, I mean I’d never been followed in my life. It didn’t occur to me that anyone would follow me. But having been asked the question, I then started checking my rear view mirror driving around and I was being followed. I was being followed every single day. And I was living in Pacific Palisades. It was a cul-de-sac, you know, a dead end? And so they could pick me up every morning as I left in my car and they followed me religiously every single day. Even on days I wasn’t working. I was there with my family and we’d go out shopping and stuff, they’d follow me to the mall. It was just mad. I think I mentioned it in the preface to the new edition. At one point they followed me with a bright red car, a red sports car — clearly they wanted me to know I was being followed. And I stopped, and they stopped, and I turned round and they turned round. At one place where I stopped there was a police car, and I thought maybe I’ll go tell the cops I’m being followed and see what they could do about it. And I went to the police car and it was a woman police officer. I really can’t go up to this woman and say, “Excuse me, I’m being followed and I’m frightened!” So I didn’t do anything. But then a wonderful thing happened. I was going to Hemet, and up that sort of low hill or mountain there, and there was a long roadworks with a stop-go sign at either end. I pulled off the road, and they went zooming past when they were given the go-ahead, and I lost them for that whole day. That was the only time I lost them.

 
BareFacedNew
[Photo by Rob Stead]

 
Did you ever find out who they actually put on you? Was it Eugene Ingram, Scientology’s legendary dirty-tricks private eye?

Eugene Ingram was certainly the major figure, because later on they then tracked down virtually everybody I knew in the United States and Europe. I mean, it was amazing to me. They found every single person I knew in the United States, and I knew a lot of people there because I worked there frequently. So they were in Chicago, Denver, Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York, Washington, and it always seemed to be Eugene Ingram turning up. I don’t know whether it was him or whether it was just people using his name. And the same in Europe. They showed up at a flat where I’d lived in central London, oh, maybe ten years earlier. They knocked on the door of my neighbor, so my neighbor called me and said, “Hey, Russell, what’s going on? There was this private detective who knocked on my door and inquired about you.” And I said, “Would you inquire about where he’s staying?” And he said yeah, and he gave me the name of the hotel. And so I called Eugene Ingram. And I said, you want to find out about Russell Miller, well, this is Russell Miller, ask away. What’s your problem? What do you want to know? And so, he said — this was the real knockout blow — he said, “We know you killed Dean Reed.” And, this is a long story, Tony, but Dean Reed was an American who defected to East Germany — nothing to do with Scientology.

The ‘Comrade Rockstar’? Tom Hanks is supposedly working on a movie about him.

I had arranged to interview him in East Berlin for the Sunday Times and I went out there on a Friday and there was a lot of muggering around. His manager called me. I was going to cross to the East, and his manager said no, wait, wait, Dean’s not well, or Dean’s just gone out. There were endless stories, and then I realized it wasn’t going to happen and I went home. And the reason I wasn’t able to interview Dean Reed was that he was dead. He’d killed himself on the day I arrived. It had nothing to do with me. Anyway, they found this out, they found out I was in Berlin to interview Dean Reed, they found out that my wife was born in East Germany. Now, how the hell they found that out I’ve no idea. I said to him, you’re going to have a tough job proving I killed Dean Reed — first of all, he committed suicide, secondly, it’s just not in my working method. And then he reeled off these things: “Well, you were in Berlin at the time, Dean Reed died that weekend, your wife was born in East Germany, we have every reason to believe you’re working either for Stasi or the KGB or MI-6 or a combination of all three.” You know the typical paranoia of the church. And so they put these things together. It was all nonsense, but to them it made perfect sense.

Was this before the book actually came out, or after? Because they tend to do this stuff up to the date of publication and then kind of drop it.

A few weeks before the book came out. The Sunday Times got a reporter to do a story about the dirty tricks, because their serialization was coming up and it was all grist for the mill to them. And so their reporter found a private detective in Bristol, a local private detective, who gave the reporter some information about what was happening and how they were trying to dig up dirt on me. And then the reporter went back with a photographer to get some more information, and the guy had obviously been told not to speak, and he opened the door with a gun and said something to the nature of, if you value you’re life you’ll get out. The photographer took a quick picture and then they both ran for it and the guy fired at them. But I think it turned out in the end that it was a starter’s pistol. The reporter said, I didn’t know that at the time. And the Sunday Times ran this picture on the front page of this man wielding a pistol. I think that was maybe a week or two weeks before publication.

That’s scary. I’ve only had one interaction with Eugene Ingram. He called me an asshole a few times and hung up on me, unfortunately. You got more out of him.

There’s a writ of certoriari I think it’s called where I think they took it up to the Supreme Court and there’s one passage in it where the Holt lawyer — my American publisher’s lawyer — suggested that they only wanted to stop the book, they weren’t interested in the technical difficulties of copyright or breach of confidence or anything. And the Scientology lawyer said “That book, that scumbag book is full of bullshit!” — it’s all recorded in this writ, it’s wonderful.

Was that a disappointment for you that it went through such a struggle in the courts and maybe didn’t get the audience it deserved?

Exactly, Tony, it was a huge disappointment. The book did very well in Europe, as I’m sure you know. We won the lawsuits here in London — they applied to take it to the House of Lords and were refused permission — they lost in the High Court, they lost in the Court of Appeal, they sued in Canada, South Africa, Australia and we won in all of those places. And we should have won in the United States. Except, it seems to me, if you forgive me for saying so, that a ferocious litigant with access to unlimited sums of money in the United States can just keep a case going forever and ever. Here it’s called vexatious litigation, I’m not sure if the same situation exists in the United States. It was clear to Holt that they were never going to win, or only at horrendous cost. I think the legal fees were already in excess of a million dollars, and their insurance company was kicking up. What subsequently happened was interesting. I think 12,000 copies of the book got out, and they went mainly to libraries and institutions. But then I discovered that it was being stolen from libraries, and so they were putting it on special order, behind the counter, and you’d have to make proper application to borrow the book. And then they put inserts in — they were congratulating you for showing interest in Scientology, but you won’t find the truth of Scientology in this book, what you need to read is a whole list of official publications. They did everything they could to sabotage the book, and sadly, in the end, successfully. So I’m really pleased that we’re having another shot at it this time around, and I hope it gets out to a much wider audience. I haven’t looked at the book for a long time, but I did, obviously, when Humfrey said he wanted to republish it. I looked at it, and I thought, well actually, it’s OK, it doesn’t really need updating. As you know, it’s a biography of Hubbard, it doesn’t purport to be a history of the church or a dive into the church’s doings — it’s a pure biography of the church’s founder, L. Ron Hubbard. And as it ended with his death, you know, it’s fine. I think it stands the test of time.

I still think that your book, as far as explaining Hubbard, nothing else comes close. And it’s also such a great read. This is what I’m looking forward to, is more people getting to experience it, because it’s just a cracking good tale. And it should be. I mean, Hubbard, as much as he exaggerated his life, and as much as the church tries to hide what his life was all about, he really did lead a fascinating life.

No question, absolutely no question. He’s a fabulous character for a biography. My God, you couldn’t ask for more. But what made it possible, as I’m sure you’re aware, Tony, is the Freedom of Information Act. Without that, I couldn’t have got access to all those records. I mean, the central part of his life was his war record, and I got every single page of his war record — it’s a stack of paper about, I don’t know, six inches high. And after the book came out I did a live debate on British television with representatives of the church, actually rather impressive young people — good looking, very articulate, and put their argument very well. But they came off with this thing, well, of course, what the record you’ve got has been “sheep-dipped.” It’s another record to cover Hubbard’s behind-the-lines activities in special forces in every theater of the war, etc. And I said to them, look, if that was the case, if this is a sheep-dipped record, it would be anodyne, it would be absolutely seamless. There wouldn’t be any question marks. It certainly wouldn’t have any courts of inquiry, it wouldn’t have Hubbard firing on Mexico, and fighting submarines that didn’t exist. And it had sort of bills from his tailor because he never paid a bill. And dozens of pieces of paper with his signature, which was so recognizable. There’s no question that it was the right record, and their argument didn’t make any sense to me. And I said to one of them afterward, actually, in the Green Room, “Do you really believe that my book is all bullshit? I mean, tell me honestly.” And he looked me in the eye and said, “I do.” I said, well here is all the documentation for my book, show me yours. Show me the real record if you’ve got it. And he said, “We’ve got it but we’re not going to let you see it.”

And not just the Freedom of Information Act, but also of course Gerry Armstrong. I mean, it seemed like all of the books of that time owed him a debt.

Oh God, yes, a huge debt. I should have certainly mentioned Gerry. He was fundamental to getting a lot of stuff on the public record. Of course the church claimed it was not a public record. I was in court when they said you weren’t allowed to use it because of breach of confidence. That argument didn’t wash here in the courts, but it had sway in the United States. As you know, I think, the copyright laws changed suddenly at the time. It had to do with the J.D. Salinger book, do you remember that? Some academic had found some letters of J.D. Salinger in a university library somewhere and Salinger found out about it and sued, and the copyright law was suddenly changed to make it harder to use stuff like that. That worked against me too. But Gerry was not only fundamental in getting this stuff out first of all, but was also a prime source for me and was extremely helpful in every way. I spent a lot of time with him in the United States, in Boston I think. He did everything he could to facilitate the book.

I wanted to talk to you at the time, when I got a copy of Paul Thomas Anderson’s script for The Master several months before the movie came out. I wanted to call you then because I couldn’t imagine Paul Thomas Anderson writing that script without mining your book. Was there any contact from him?

There was not, and unfortunately, Tony, I didn’t know about this until the bloody film was out. Had I known this was in the pipeline I would have got my agent to ask to see the script. Because I agree with you, I don’t think there’s any question that they must have used my book. I would have A) liked credit and B) I would have liked some acknowledgment in terms of some cash. But I had no knowledge of this movie until it was about to be released. Of course by then it’s far too late, no point in trying to get at them then, they’ve got the movie out and they’re not going to be interested in roping you in in any way. The answer is no, I wish I had done. For authors, as I’m sure you know, when stuff is in the public record and in the public domain, it’s hard to prove that they’re using your book, and the only real way of doing it would be to have gotten sight of the script beforehand and then compared the script with the book to see if there was direct thefts from the book. But I’m bloody sure there was.

I was with The Village Voice then, and we interviewed him and he admitted that he had done a lot of research about Scientology history, and he talked about going through old copies of “The Aberree.” And I had to give him credit for actually going to primary materials. But as far as the narrative, of the decisions that Hubbard was facing in 1951 and 1952 about whether to accept the past lives stuff and how to keep his donors happy, I mean, that’s straight out of your book.

Yeah, exactly. And the scene in East Grinstead. Boy, that’s East Grinstead. But there’s no point in crying over spilled milk, Tony. It’s just one of life’s little nags.

The situation today is very interesting. In the last couple of years what I’ve been covering is the real crisis that Scientology is in because of so many longtime, loyal church members turning against leader David Miscavige and leaving. And they’re not leaving because they’ve suddenly had some — they would say “cognition” — that Scientology is incorrect. In fact, they’re still very loyal to Hubbard. And they’re leaving because they feel Miscavige has turned away from Hubbard. And so, even 28 years after the guy died, L. Ron Hubbard is still not only ‘Source,’ and the reason that Scientology exists, but he’s also right in the middle of the crisis. Were you aware that Hubbard is still this important to what’s going on today?

It’s always been an utter mystery to me, a complete utter mystery to me that anybody could read Bare-Faced Messiah and then still take Scientology seriously. I mean, you know, to have a founder with a track record like his doesn’t make any sense to me, but there it is. People who take on Scientology are very enthusiastic about it. But I’m not particularly surprised by that. It seems to me that Hubbard and Scientology are essentially one, and they’re bound up so closely together. And I suppose what happens is that if you’re a believer in Scientology then you take it from Dianetics onward, and you ignore everything that happened before Dianetics, I suppose. That’s the only way it would make sense to me. But I could never be a follower of Scientology knowing what I know about Hubbard. I think the other problem is I imagine Miscavige is a very controversial character and I imagine it’s alienating a lot of people.

It’s interesting because when they come out, these Scientologists — they call themselves “independent Scentologists” — and they’re denouncing Miscavige, they’re denouncing the “security checking” and the way the Sea Org people are treated. But as soon as I bring up your book, they will often say, ‘”Oh, we hate that book. That book is so bad, it’s so incorrect.” I find that endlessly amusing, that they can see all these faults in Miscavige and the current Church of Scientology, but they still can’t accept what you wrote 27 years ago.

Yeah, it’s amazing, isn’t it? And you know, Tony, at no time, in any court room, anywhere in the world, did anybody question the content of the book. There was never any suggestion made by a lawyer anywhere in any of these hearings that the book was incorrect. What they were saying was that it breached confidence, it breached copyright — they were technicalities. And it was extremely frustrating to me, as the author, and I sat in the High Court right through the whole hearing, hugely aware that I was the only person in the entire courtroom who was not being paid. Everyone else was on salary except me. But there was a moment when the judge looked as if he was going to say something along the lines of, the reason you want this book stopped is that it’s very damaging to Mr. Hubbard. But he didn’t actually come out with the words. But it was interesting that nobody questioned it. It was very frustrating — it was very clear to me and everybody else why they wanted the book stopped, because it was damaging to Hubbard. It’s a very damaging book because it shows Hubbard to be a total and utter confidence trickster and a charlatan and all those things that I called him. But it was never addressed, and that was very frustrating. And the other interesting thing, I thought, too, was the guys I was interviewing, mainly in California, all of whom I’m sure you know, they were extremely disaffected, not so much with Hubbard but with Scientology, also, at that time. They would describe to me the crazy things that they had had to do within the church. You know, mad, stupid things. You remember when the Sea Org was in Corfu, and they had morning parades, and anyone who had transgressed the rules on the previous day was thrown over the side of the ship? And the Corfu locals would gather every morning and watch this thing. That’s amazing. Henchman would grab people from the parade and chuck them over the edge. Anyway, that’s the kind of things that were happening, and I would say to these guys — and I found them impressive people, these Scientologists I interviewed. They weren’t fools, they were decent, good people. And I would say to them, God, why did you do that? Why did you put up with that? And they would look at me, and they would shake their heads, and they’d say, you know, I just don’t know. They were so enthralled with the organization. You know the way cults work, you know better than me, the process of alienation, of getting withdrawn to the inside, and they’d been made to believe the outside world is a dangerous place. But they were unable to explain to me why they put up with the miseries and the humiliation and the punishment that they did. So I thought that was fascinating.

One of the questions I get asked the most is about Hubbard’s sincerity. How aware was he that this was all a con, or did he believe some of it, to a certain extent?

I think that he came to delude himself. You know, I was never able to answer the question where Dianetics came from. I thought that was a fascinating unanswered question in my book. You know, as far as I was aware he just came up with it. But I think he began to believe his own message, and that’s what happens, isn’t it? You get so wrapped up in yourself and the success of what you’re doing, that you — and I think it’s also true of the movie, The Master — you’ve come to believe in what you’re doing because it’s self-delusional. That’s my view.

 
We want to thank Russell for taking the time out to talk to the Bunker. And to the Commodore, happy birthday, wherever you are!

 
UPDATE: WOW. Read Marty Rathbun’s reaction to this interview and his apology to Russell Miller.

 
——————–

Chris Shelton and the Basics

Another fun video from Karen de la Carriere…

 

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on March 13, 2014 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS (We read Scientology’s founding text) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25

UP THE BRIDGE (Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43

GETTING OUR ETHICS IN (Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14

SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING (Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43

PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer

 

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  • Seannie5

    very interesting

  • Suzy

    Nice to see Marty’s response to the interview, along with his apology.

  • Be sure to Tweet about this new release and comment on the Amazon page, post your reviews, and comment on the reviews as they come in! I have to purchase a Kendle now. ๐Ÿ™‚ Get my ass out of the 14th Century.

    • Sunny Sands

      You can download the Kindle software to your computer for free. You don’t have to buy the device.

      • Wuh? I had no idea that was possible. I’ll go Hearsay Google that and see. If I download BFM to my Windows XP, does that mean I can copy it to a Kendle once I get the Kendle?

        • Espiando

          Kindle. It’s spelled “Kindle”. You don’t know how much this drives me nuts. It’s a long story that involves my mother and Oprah. Don’t ask.

          • Ha! I don’t wish to enturbulate.

            • richelieu jr

              I think you mean ‘intearboolaite’

        • Sunny Sands

          Here is the download for XP at Amazon:
          http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=kcp_pc_mkt_lnd?docId=1000426311
          I don’t know about copying it to another device, but I think it will tell you at Amazon.

          • pronoia

            When you set up an account at amazon, you can register a number of devices and the book will be available on all of them.

          • Okay, I downloaded it — kindle. I’ll get BFM go to with it. Thanks!

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Yes, you can set it up to sync to other devices.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist
          • Thank you, I got the software. I see one can register multiple devices to read books with so I should be able to move it around to the hardware once I get it. Sweet!

  • Espiando

    Marty’s admission was heartwarming, but he had to go and ruin it by allowing the response that linked to Psycho Margaret’s “research”. Oh, well, baby steps, I guess. But the M&M admissions are significant. It further marginalizes the Die-Hard Indies, and that’s a good thing.

    • Eclipse-girl

      Psycho Margaret’s research is highly circumspect. it is based on the lack of evidence.

      • Missionary Kid

        That follows LRH’s research technique: Make all the shit up.

    • richelieu jr

      I commented on it– We’ll see if it gets published as it is ‘awaiting moderation’..

      There’sa fine line between ‘research’ and ‘propaganda’… Hubbard never found it. Psycho Margaret is trying to make it as fuzzy as possible..

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Just finished Karen’s latest video with Chris Shelton. Thank you both and the others in the vid like Synthia Fagen and Luis Garcia. Scientology at that time really became the religion of telemarketers. I wonder if some of the TV live shopping shows bought scientology’s scripts. I’ve known a few who worked at one of them and he and a few others likened it to a cult. Chris’s description of the call center room and time limits is precisely what happens except salesmen aren’t doused in water. First they are just humiliated in front of their peers and then fired without so much as a thank you, even if they’ve worked diligently for years.

    I have to admit I still have not really been able to wrap my head around anyone staying after the Basics whether public or especially staff. There are many high minded, moral and sensible reasons for leaving but 24/7 sales vultures would chase even the bubbleheads scrambling for the exits. And it continues every week? I’m stumped.

  • aegerprimo
    • aegerprimo

      Your doubts are valid! Get help leaving the Sea Org. Call –

      1-866-X-SeaOrg

    • woodrose

      Thanks for all the work you and others do to keep this effort going.

      I don’t usually post a reply, but I do some flagging most every day. I figure if I flag 40 or 50 ads, I’ve done my bit. Only takes a couple of minutes.

      Proud worker bee, Red X Brigade

      • aegerprimo

        Thank you for your help woodrose!

    • Toni m

      My very last check for blues today. I found 5 Orange County. 1 on Seattle. 2 SF Bay. 12 in LA.
      Have a good rest of the day Bunkeritos.

  • Tory Christman

    **Great** Interview, Russell Miller, Chris Shelton and thanks, Tony!! Bare Faced Messiah shall go down in history as one of THE most factual, honest writings on Hubbard. Here’s my Hubbard B-day post from FB:

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153853892125577&set=a.10150237556590577.469003.736745576&type=1&theater

    Love to ALL ๐Ÿ™‚ Tory/Magoo

    • Guest

      Today is L Ron Hubbard’s Birthday. Check out L
      Ron Hubbard Way and the attempt to STOP FREE SPEECH on his street with
      their stupid bushes! Would he support “Dave’s” Insane actions? Chime
      in…I’d like to hear your thoughts. Granted, he had his
      own demons and no doubt passed them onto “Dave”…but having been “in”
      When both were around…I still say “Dave” is WAY worse. Thoughts? (and
      please don’t pound me…it’s just a question ๐Ÿ™‚

      • I wonder why no Scientology Twitter account is trumpeting their dead messiah’s birth day.

        • Observer

          Ron probably called from target two and told them not to. You know he never liked a fuss made over him.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Tory, it was just as bad under Hubbard but it seems like it’s worse under Miscavige because a) there’s fewer staff and public so we get a more consdensed picture b) we get updated daily and weekly so it seems the worst happens more often and in HD video format no less and c) it seems more cray cray, wacky and evil post internet era. What I do see as a major change is what Miscavige is selling. It used to be auditing and training. I’m not sure what DM is pushing other than a Trophy Buyers Club and Photo Ops with John Travolta and entourage. My 3 cents.

      http://i.imgur.com/XJR1eaZ.jpg

      • Tory Christman

        Thanks, TheHoleDoesNotExist! I know Hubbard had his own evilness and sick actions. I’ll just give you ONE change I’ve personally seen: With Hubbard and SP’s…he said use “Good Roads, Fair Weather” with “Disconnection being THE Last thing to do. Ol Dave is onto Disconnection IMMEDIATELY. Also, Hubbard was anti-“Memorization”. The “Golden Age of Crap” IS ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL Memorization. That’s the 2 of the many, many awful things “Dave” has changed. How ’bout the changing of F/N? I was there for that. What a nightmare!

        Trust me, L Ron Hubbard told me *I* HAD to get off of my much needed medication for Epilepsy..and as a result, due to many Grand Mal Seizures, I have no short term memory. So I have PERSONAL reasons for not liking the dood. However, I still say “Dave” is a twist of evil (and illiteracy) far deeper, from my experiences. Best ๐Ÿ™‚ Tory/Magoo

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Well hells bells, Tory. If almost killin’ you off is your baseline for comparison…doesn’t matter much, does it :)? Hey, I came within minutes of death twice myself. I have to agree when it comes to sales though. He makes Blake from Glengarry Glen Ross look like Mother Theresa!

      • ze moo

        “Trophy buyers club” really sums up the current clampire.

        • aegerprimo

          Where is Missionary Kid to add it to the “Things Said About Scientology” list?

          • Missionary Kid

            Done. See my reply to THDN.

      • Missionary Kid
      • Miss Tia

        Trophy Buyer’s Club is probably gonna end up in a haiku soon! ๐Ÿ™‚ That phrase credited to you!

    • Missionary Kid

      Thanks for the pictures. Off of the comments, I got another nickname for DM: Dwarf Vader. When we get to 666 nicknames for DM, I’ll post them all.

      • Espiando

        Too bad that Beelze-Bubo works better for the birthday boy rather than the shit nugget, otherwise I’d make another contribution to get there.

      • TXCowgirl

        That’s my favorite moniker to date!!!!!

    • Sarah James

      If your looking for tiny just try shaking the tiny bushes. ๐Ÿ˜‰

    • Missionary Kid

      I somewhat agree with THDN. Things are just as bad, but it’s more concentrated.

      There are some differences, though, IMO.

      The people who were fair gamed didn’t really have a place to vent or ask for help like the places that are available now. They were isolated and marginalized, which was what Co$ wanted from everyone. They could divide and conquer because people were scattered.

      The internet has made all the difference. Sure, the self-censorship is still in operation for those still in, but so much more information is out there, available with the click of a mouse or button. More important than providing information, the internet has brought together the exes, the indies, the disconnected, and the disaffected.

      Davy’s paranoia is working against Co$. Look at the extent they went to for a simple re-re-re-opening. The fact that they didn’t send invites to everyone means that his circle is getting smaller, doesn’t it? Why weren’t there any whales that we know of? (Maybe I spoke too soon, but we’ll hear sooner or later).

      The evil from the leader towards the clams is much more concentrated because there are fewer of them. It’s like a captain on a slave galley that keeps working his slaves to death, but, as they die off, one by one, he keeps expecting the same performance out of fewer and fewer slaves.

      The goal of the Co$ has always been to make money. The problem that Co$ has is that their business model has become more rapacious than ever, and in doing so, has bled the clams dry. This is one area that has gotten far worse.

      It was said yesterday that the hard sell of the original GAT is what brought about a huge exodus. Miscavige has made things harder because of his hard sell. He was “successful” with it on the original GAT, but he didn’t look at what the results were with the loss of many faithful. He’s repeated it with CATII and the easy bake oven. He has never realized that the way to real wealth is to take a little from a many people, but both he & LRH at the end of his life, got greedy.

      DM is killing his golden goose because he isn’t able to really recruit many new members. LRH worked hard in the beginning to bring in new recruits, and, while he may not have had the statistics, knew that it was a matter of numbers: get a bunch of people in the door, and some will stick around. DM feels he knows better. He doesn’t realize that people are the best way to recruit people. Everyone is inundated with videos every day, so that they are inoculated against that approach. When the clampire collapses, I’d like one of those screens.

      If McDonald’s went upscale, they’d lose most of their customer base. DM, with his ideal bullshit, is trying to move upscale. He’s focused on the whales, but he doesn’t realize that it’s people that sell concepts, not buildings. In losing the ordinary people, he’s losing bodies, and that has to be evident to the whales. He also doesn’t realize that the ordinary publics are the backbone of the cult.

      The support of volunteers, not the sea ogres is what keeps the organization going, and he’s treating them like shit: they’re as bad off as boiler room operation victims. They’ve started to stay away in droves, and the whales can’t help but notice. Since the whales have always been treated different, by having their egos stroked in front of large crowds, as the crowds get smaller, the stroking becomes less effective, and they will start to feel less love and donate less. Since DM has always focused on whales and given them wide latitude that the ordinary clams don’t have, the ordinary clams will notice.

      The caste system that Wright pointed out is going to cause even more problems. Cruise hasn’t disconnected from Suri, Nothing has happened to the Presley clan, and second and third generation clams descended from VIPs live differently than those of ordinary clams.

      Tory, I believe that all the security wasn’t to keep you from expressing your free speech, but to keep the faithful in the cocoon. It is his attempt to keep them in more than you out.

      TICK TOCK, Tory.

  • Troy MacGyver SP

    Has Anyone heard from,Stack Brooks Young in awhile? Don’t seem to find her active in the fight. I hope she’s o.k. Seemed to very dedicated until early 2000’s.

    • Tory Christman

      Mark Bunker and I saw her a few years ago. She looked fine and seemed to be doing well.

    • Sarah James

      Odd, I was wondering the same thing and before I went to sleep last night I looked her up on the net. I too wish her well. I think she saw the evil up cloose but the timing was not right to act as it is now. She lost a lot, but she fought hard.

  • aegerprimo

    Thank you Russell Miller, for your book โ€Bare-Faced Messiahโ€.

    I stepped away from Scientology over 15 years ago, but all that time I thought the Co$ was clearing the planet, people were going up the โ€œbridgeโ€ and the world was quietly becoming a better place because of the discoveries of LRH. Little did I knowโ€ฆ

    I continue to be grateful for my recent college education in so many ways. The obvious result is that I now have a rewarding career where I get to help people every day. Another reason is that I acquired valid critical thinking skills by taking a class called โ€œCritical Thinkingโ€ along with a few science classes that retrained my mind.

    In one college class project, I had to partner up with another classmate and complete a research paper about a particular religion or culture and how they handled medicine and surgical intervention. Then we had to present it to the class. The purpose was to learn and understand cultural diversity in the healthcare setting. Our instructor let us choose our topics, but specifically stated to the class that no one could choose Scientology because there was no information available on how Scientologists dealt with medicine or surgery. I had to chuckle (to myself) because I knew it was true. No Scientologist would ever receive a surgical procedure, not even if they were dying of cancer. Because of my instructorโ€™s comment, I was curious to see if there were any books about Scientology in my college library, which led me to look on the internet to see what was going on with the Co$.

    To make a long story short, through the Operation Clambake website, http://www.xenu.net โ€“ I finally came across โ€Bare-Faced Messiahโ€ in electronic form. This book was the point of no return for me. So many of Scienotologyโ€™s principles I adopted as my own. I did not realize how deep the kool-aid think was part of me
    (i.e. past lives, power of the mind, communication, ethics). Learning that LRH was a con-man, a man that only cared for monetary compensation for the crap he created, and a liar about his own life accomplishments, shook me up for a few months. I have also learned that I recovered faster than most.

    Mr. Miller, I hope your book makes the best seller list in the USA this time around, that you finally get the recognition and compensation you deserve.

    (BTW, I just downloaded the Kindle version.)

    • Panopea Abrupta

      Thank you – I got your back.

    • GalacticGreg

      Thank you for sharing some of your story, aegerP. Once-ins’ sharing some of the actual, of their recovery, is always so powerful for never-ins. I appreciated your telling some of your most personal thoughts. :->)

    • ThetaBara

      Hey aegerprimo,
      I’m glad you’re out. And I really appreciate your voice and your contributions!
      What causes people to start questioning and eventually break free is always a fascinating subject.

  • Just Dee

    I am gonna wait until the book comes out in print. I still enjoy reading books. Afterwards,, I can donate it to my local library – maybe we can start replacing all the “lost” books over the years.

    • Tony Ortega

      It is out in print. You can order it from the link I put in above.

      • Just Dee

        Got it, thanks.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    LRH: a mouth where teeth went to die

    • richelieu jr

      LRH: a forehead where cysts went to prosper…

    • Missionary Kid

      Another good one. It’ll go on the list.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    LRH: a mind where ideas went to fester

    • Missionary Kid

      On the list. I’ll post it in a while.

  • The sued Russell Miller in England and they lost. The criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology certainly deserved to.

    Just like the critics before, then and now do not deserve the treatment meted out by the Co$ – I’m glad Marty Rathbun is taking the time to actually think for himself and consider the facts of the matter. It’s a start…

    I think bare-faced Messiah was one of the first critical books I read. I just ordered a hardback copy – I hope Russell makes more on those ๐Ÿ™‚

  • Kronomex

    Bare-Faced Messiah has been republished (it’s a definite buy for me)
    because it was the book that had me removed out of the Scientology
    building in Brisbane, Australia 1987 after going in there to find a book
    mentioned in the text. When they asked where I had heard of the tome in
    question I told them I had read about it in Mr. Miller’s book, next
    thing I know I was being escorted out of the building and told never to
    come back. Did I do something to annoy them?

    • Panopea Abrupta

      Love that story

    • Charlotte

      Back when there were still people in that building.

      • EnthralledObserver

        I didn’t know there was a $ci building in Brisbane. Did they shut up shop for good there?

        • Charlotte
        • Kronomex

          Wow, they’ve certainly gone down market since 1987 when they were in the Brisbane CBD on Edward Street. They had people standing outside doing “interviews” and almost always picked on people wearing a certain level of clothing meaning (without being offensive) scruffy no doubt thinking that they weren’t smart and could be potential suckers. At that stage I used to wear “scruffy” clothes because they were comfortable and because I walked everywhere (anything up to 10 – 15 kilometres a day). One day (about eight months before the Miller episode) I had to walk past the joint to go and have lunch with a friend and was approached by one of the plastic folder wielding…actually he just stepped in front of me and started the spiel. The first question he asked was, “Do you know what sort of person you are?” I leaned forward (loomed actually, I was close to being head and shoulders taller than him and wearing dark sunglasses because of mild photophobia due to a dose of viral meningitis a couple of years previous) and replied, “I have delusions of grandeur, undiagnosed psychopathy and sociopathic tendencies.” He snapped the folder closed and rather nervously told me that he didn’t have anymore questions and I could continue on my way. I was never pestered again,

          • Missionary Kid

            Great stories. They brought a smile to my face.

          • EnthralledObserver

            Love it – nice reply. Heh, heh… they definitely don’t want ‘that’ kind of person to join CO$… what illness or condition would be left to foist on them?

    • richelieu jr

      Looking for facts in all the wrong places…

      Try finding a copy of the Torah in the Wolf’s Nest, while you’re at it…

    • Kronomex

      I realise that this is getting away, a bit, from the article about Mr Miller but it’s interesting to list a few of the ways I used to piss the Scientologists off. I have read, although not quite as much now as my interests have widened over the years, a lot of Science Fiction and discovered another trick that some of the Brisbane Scientologists pulled with recruiting. I was on a train home from work and was reading The Pride of Chanur by C. J. Cherryh and noticed from the corner of my eyes a couple watching me intently from a couple of seats down. My “I-bet-they’re-Scientologists” radar went off and I waited. Sure enough, after a couple of minutes they were sitting on the seats across from me and the obvious, to me at least, question, “Do you read much Science Fiction?” was asked. I replied yes and went back to my book. Then the woman told me that they read SF as well and that C. J. Cherryh was her favourite author (I’m guessing that if it had an Asimov book the statement would have changed to suit the situation). I replied that she wrote a pretty good book and continued reading and mentally counting down from thirty, At six he asked if I had heard of L. Ron Hubbard? I replied,”If you mean the maniac that created Scientology and whose favourite saying was “Make money to make more money.” and runs a cult thinly disguised as religion, then yes, I had heard of L. Ron Hubbard.” His face went black as thunder while she was pulling on his arm and as they stormed off off the train at the next stop and his parting words were, “We are Scientologists and it’s not a cult and how dare I impugn the name of L. Ron.” I miss being in Brisbane sometimes.

  • Jeb Burton

    After observing the Warriors blog the last few weeks, I think he is getting closer to totally denouncing LRH.This is why I was not surprised to see him comment on Bare Faced Messiah. I will bet his next book is all about what a con man Hubbard was and how he was taken in by it. He knows he has a much bigger market for that type of book than what he has been writing. He seems to be moving farther away from the independent Scientology movement, and his last few posts seem to be very critical of Hubbard and his policies. As always, he is a con man himself, and I think he has already left any belief he has in Scientology,and as far as I know, he is still auditing people just to make his money. Once he and his wife get their case settled, and a nice payday, he will write his book on what a sham Hubbard is. Just a prediction on my part.

    • sugarplumfairy

      You’re a tough nut, Jeb.. I prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt.. I’m glad he’s seeing lrh for the con man he was but I think you’re wrong about Marty..

      • Bob

        I agree with you SPF. Don’t know Jeb or whether he was ever in. Those of us who were in are much more lenient towards others who had similar experiences. It’s easy to be hyper-critical when you have not had to go through the experiences yourself. I think Marty is trying to find himself and like most of us is deprogramming himself.

        The interesting thing about auditing is that it can be used to erase the bad auditing.

        • Missionary Kid

          Seeing a good therapist can erase it much faster, IMO.

          • Bob

            Yes, but more than that depends on who the therapist is no matter what technique is used.

            • Missionary Kid

              Exactly.

              The problem I have with Co$ auditing is that it is directed towards an external goal, which is all to support the organization. If the person who’s doing it has thrown off the chains, it has a possibility of being helpful. The auditor may or may not be aware of their own blind spots vis a vis the cult.

              I have done a lot of “auditing” (yes, it was called that) but it was a much more benign form that had morphed from Dianetics. It was an exchange form of co-counseling, where one person was the auditor and the other was the client for 1/2 an hour, and then we changed roles. The person being audited controlled the session. If they were avoiding a topic, the auditor would ask them about it. If they didn’t want to go there, they didn’t.

              That was helpful, but I’ve always gotten faster results from a pro.

            • Bob

              Right, it’s the intention that senior. If the intention is clear cut to help the person with what HE OR SHE wants then it could be valuable, when it is used to move someone up the bridge or pole or mountain etc. then it can be mighty destructive.

            • Missionary Kid

              Karen is probably someone who would be good at it. She seems to have a kind, thoughtful nature, but I have a suspicious nature about someone who has been in Co$ for a long time, and who was trained by them. Perhaps I trust her more because she was basically trained way back when.

            • Bob

              Yes, she was a good auditor.

            • SvenBoogie

              Auditing is not benign. In cult or out, it is someone completely unqualified playing “therapy by milton bradley” based on the con game of a deluded sleazeball.

            • Jimmy3

              “therapy by milton bradley” wins this thread. That is too damn good.

            • SvenBoogie

              Also known as “Hypnotism: The Home Game”

            • Missionary Kid

              I have worked for a mental health agency, and I know what is required of therapists. I also knew that there was no cultish behavior involved with the auditing, and that it was not connected with LRH. If there had been, I would have been out the door, immediately.

              There was also none of the cant, manipulation, and hypnotism that $cientology has as a part of it. It was damn near free. When there was a meeting (about once a month as I remember), there was a small fee that took care of a newsletter and the lists of people who could be called to counsel with. It was pretty much all volunteer.

              I believe you don’t understand what I’m talking about. It was a form of peer counseling that we called co-counseling. The counseling group used the terms auditing and discharge and others (which I’ll use a * with), but it was almost as far as you can get from Hubbard as you can get. The only goal was that a person get rid of emotions that were bothering them. There was no guidance toward any philosophy or group. I just looked at the terms used as a vocabulary for the system. It turns out that they were borrowed from Dianutty.

              There was an anti-drug stream that ran through it, but that was more that a person should audit without being affected by drugs or alcohol.

              It was very weakly based on the early theories of LRH, but mostly in terminology. I only found out that it had its roots in Dianetics when I did some research recently. The person who founded it was an early franchise holder for Dianetics, and LRH kicked him out, I imagine because he actually tried to help people.

              There was no veneration of the person who founded it, (the group I apparently was associated with had even split off from the founder’s group because he had gotten involved with women he co-counseled with) no conformity, aside from following simple rules to keep a person talking about feelings, and to safeguard their confidences.

              There was insistence that nothing be revealed outside of a session to anyone, and that unless the other person acknowledged that they themselves had had a session with you, you never revealed that you had a session with them.

              Outside relationships with a co-counselor were not allowed, unless there was a relationship pre-established. (Probably because of the mistakes of the founder, and to avoid any problems that Identification could cause). Using a relative or close friend was not encouraged, rather one was urged to seek out someone you didn’t know to counsel with. That way, their emotions were less likely to influence yours.

              As the auditor, you allowed the person who was being audited to talk about anything they wanted, but you encouraged a person to talk about feelings. Their half hour was their time. You didn’t interject your emotions or make judgements. That was up to the person themselves about their self. The same went for them when they were the auditor.

              Sometimes, people acting as the auditor would call off a session because they were restimulated* (another Hub term) and couldn’t handle the other person’s material*.

              They also used the term engram*, but only in the context that it was a feeling that needed to be discharged*. Discharging was a matter of (in hindsight) desensitization about something that bothered the person talking. It was the person talking who decided if they wanted to even talk about it. If something was too painful to talk about, it wasn’t.

              It was not so much therapy as just talking to a person who actively listened to what you were saying, and vice-versa. How close to LRH is that?

            • SvenBoogie

              “Sometimes, people acting as the auditor would call off a session because they were restimulated* (another Hub term) and couldn’t handle the other person’s material.”

              Which is a perfect example of why playing therapist like this is potentially damaging and dangerous and should be avoided entirely, rather than desperately clinging to just a few bits of the framework of tubby’s con game. It is in no way healthy for someone to engage in a setting where they could open up about a serious emotional topic or issue and have the other person just decide they couldn’t deal with it and stop.

            • Missionary Kid

              Sorry, but I disagree. The sessions were not therapy, so much as a chance to talk things out. The person auditing was not to put their opinions on the person talking. If they couldn’t listen effectively, because of their own problems with an issue, it was their responsibility to say so. Auditing was defined as active listening: paying attention.

              It was peer counseling, and, the idea was that the person one co-counseled with did not have the same issues, to the point that they could not listen effectively. As humans, we all have common experiences, so occasionally some people have both had the same type of traumatic experiences.

              I have heard of professional counselors, who, because they considered themselves professionals couldn’t see that they were, like Hubbard, working out their own problems through their patients, and couldn’t recognize that is what they were doing.

              The ethical thing for that professional is to send the patient to someone else, isn’t it?

              Aside from the vocabulary, what part of what I described was a part of LRH’s con game? The money was insignificant, there was no body routing, there was no adoration of the founder, no allegiance pledged to an organization. The questions asked by the auditor were only to keep a person focused on their feelings. People left when they felt no further need to participate all the time. If they left, they might get a call from someone who had co-counseled with them before looking to get together for another session. There was no emphasis on recruitment.

            • SvenBoogie

              Actually, the ethical thing in your hypothetical would be for said counselor to either choose a new profession, or take a leave while working out their issues and/or making sure they knew how to not inject them into the process.

            • Missionary Kid

              Are you writing about a counselor who is unaware of their issues or the way in which they interject their values into a counseling session, or a counselor who is aware that they may have similar issues?

          • sugarplumfairy

            Absofrigginglutely..

    • richelieu jr

      Could be… I was always more afraid of a Hubbard/Scilon rehabilitation once Miscavige is ridden out of town on rail…

      I could give a toss if Marty gets rich spouting nonsense, or sense. As long as no one is abused or enslaved in the process, and the Stalinist shell-game known as The Church of Scientology goes down and stays down, I’m OK.

      I’d prefer a truth commission and the public execution by emory board of Slappy Miscavige

    • Troy MacGyver SP

      It’s her money. And I hope she catches the next flight Delta flight out and gets her and her baby away from that e-metering scum bag who belongs in jail. Wonder what other things will pop out that he had a hand end.

      • pronoia

        It is his child as well. Who deserves to have 2 parents. Particularly since he has already ‘lost” his birth parents.

        • Eclipse-girl

          Marty’s parents are alive?

          Marty joined scientology as a teen.

          • pronoia

            No! Not Marty’s parents. Mosey and Marty’s baby son! If I read Troy’s comment properly, he was saying that Mosey should take the baby and get out of Dodge.

            Edit — I am certain that both Marty’s parents are deceased. His mother when he was a kid. And his father while he was still in (I think).

            • Eclipse-girl

              Sorry, I misread that statement. Mosey and Marty need to protect that child. In this case, I think confrontation (the court case) will protect young William James more than running and hiding will.

            • Troy MacGyver SP

              Apparently,if you listen to Marty it san not stopped sans restraining order.

            • Eclipse-girl

              I know. Scientology will not stop. That is why MOSEY needs to win or have davey be so desperate that MOSEY can dictate terms which should include if scientology is ever caught looking at them , scientology will pay a heavy fine for that infraction.

        • Troy MacGyver SP

          Well he’s ruined many more lives than that. Go look at Lush’s sight for stuff that continues to come up from time to time.

          • pronoia

            I read this site because it is real journalism rather than rumor mongering.

        • Troy MacGyver SP

          That’s pretzel logic.

        • Troy MacGyver SP

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw5ey1VpRKE Has he apologized to this guy?

          • pronoia

            Tiziano Lugli is a friend of Marty’s! Marty was himself being followed when this was being made. I don’t understand what your point is.

      • Troy MacGyver SP

        WE NEVER GOT AN ANSWER FROM HIM EITHER WHEN WE ASKED WHY THE BUmPER STICKER OF HIS WIFE’S STALKER WAS THE SAME ONE HE HAD ON HIS BOG A YEAR AGO. Many people put in a great deal of effort to help him and he wouldn’t answer our question’s?

    • Sandy

      Sir – I don’t think he is auditing, exactly. He said he is sending people info on how to be free from that stuff.

      I reserve the right to be wrong, if I misunderstood him.

    • pronoia

      How do you know he is still auditing people? Maybe he is just being a full time Dad — which is a LOT of work. I suggest this as it is hard to believe he could make enough auditing in the middle of nowhere in Texas to support the family — while Mosey seems to have some kind of mainstream career track going. It would not surprise me if she was the primary breadwinner. If she hasn’t been all along. (and no judgement from me about that either!!!)

    • Zer0

      Marty is not an indie anymore

  • richelieu jr

    OK folks, Hold onto your hats:

    For the very first time today, Marty has made one of the steps that you have all gotten sick of me demanding that he take: Assuming responsibility for dead agenting people for telling the Truth: Here Miller, next (?) Gerry Armstrong?

    HE admits he was so deluded (even in the last couple of years) that he actually thought he had read the thing and now that he has– Who knew? It’s not a just pack of lies..

    He’s still hedging his bets a bit, biut at least he seems to be within a few stones’ throw of reality…

    I would like him now to see he is not the first ‘truth teller’ and that everything he is bitching about is what he did to others (and their innocent loved ones as well)..

    Still, this is a big day, it can’t have been easy, and I truly admire him for making this step.

    (And for the person who was bombarding me with emails saying he had already done all this, and that I didn’t know him, and he had apologized to all he had wronged– Well, now Marty agrees with me, so eat a big hot bowl of fuck, and lose my address, and go troll, troll troll your little boat elsewhere…

    • Eclipse-girl

      Rinder made a similar statement. He thought he had also read the biography. Since he hadn’t, he now will.

      • richelieu jr

        Yeah, I read that too! Also corrected Marty as to the Models of the car that sleezebag PIU goon drove around….

        • Eclipse-girl

          Maybe just maybe Mike will stop holding the cans soon.

          Although he provides a soft landing for those who are now existing

          • Sandy

            Eclipse-girl. Actually, I wonder if Mike isn’t already there, but kindly picked up the “soft landing” spot from Marty when Marty moved on. It is a gentle place to decompress.

            • Eclipse-girl

              I might think better if a few months ago he hadn’t defended Margaret Lake and her ideas on Ron’s war record.

              I also think since both adults (Mike and Christie) in the relationship grew up in scientology, it is harder for one of them to leave.

              Mike has made statements on film (Tiiziano’s Lugli’s short pieces) that He is a scientologist.

            • Sandy

              Ever evolving …

              caterpillar — > butterfly

              we will see …

            • Eclipse-girl

              I have that wish for all who are able to escape. I want them to heal and regain their families and their lives.

            • Sejanus

              What a truly beautiful sentiment.
              I hope those that do escape can heal and allow themselves to live as they should….as free human beings and masters of their own minds.

            • Panopea Abrupta

              “You’ll never get me up in one o’ dem things!”

            • aurora50

              Could you tell us a bit more about who/what Margaret Lake is?
              …there is a bit of buzz around her lately at some of the other sites.
              She and her viewpoint appear to be very polarizing.

              I read her page, http://scientologymyths.com/hubbardww2.htm, and it seemed to me to have the same tone and veracity as one of those Alien Astronaut sites!

            • Eclipse-girl

              She is an indie who still thinks Ron was god’s gift.

              I will have to go through Rinder’s blog to find the article that pissed many of us off. She feels that Chris Owen, Russell Miller, Jon Atack and others didn’t do enough research.

              Her research relies on the lack of information when Ron served as an Intelligence officer in Australia
              She claims that during a period where there is no paper trail, that Ron was sent to islands in or near the Philippines by the army, because he was on special loan.
              She went on to claim that Ron could have been on a boat and suffered his eye problems from that.
              She also claims to have found some evidence that Ron actually flew home or part way on a plane, due to the last sighting of Ran in Australia, and his first sighting back on the West Coast.

            • aurora50

              Yes, that is all on her site…and she assumes such an omnipotent attitude as she lays it all out…with no real backup data!

              Do you know who she is, where she came from, her bona fides as it were?

              At this point in the ‘Fall of the Hubbard Empire’ it is startling to come across such a sycophant!

            • Eclipse-girl

              I have no information on her.

            • aurora50

              Thanks for taking the time…I am trying to do a ‘Search’ for her at Mike’s blog, but an odd jumble of posts came up…will wait and see what plays out in the coming days and weeks.

              Interesting times…!

            • Eclipse-girl

              I think she is just under Margaret on Rinder’s blog. I thought it was last fall.

              She basically discounts all the authors I cited, and said they didn’t do enough research and then links to her article.

              However, there is no way to know if her evidence actually exists.

            • aurora50

              Thanks for that lead…will follow it up.

              I could also ask for info at Marty’s blog; it is just that, as a never-in, I don’t really want to intrude into their on-going process…which is so fascinating to observe.

            • Eclipse-girl

              I am an observer, too. I have written both Mike and Marty privately when chasing a weird rabbit hole. They are each very polite.

      • pronoia

        Wow. Again for the 2nd time today. I think that it will be harder for Rinder and his wife Christy since both of them grew up in Scientology and have never know anything other than that Hubbard was a divine being. At least Marty will remember when he had never even heard of Hubbard.

        • Eclipse-girl

          I can always hope.

          I am in agreement that growing up in the cult and having both people in the relationship does not make it easy to leave.

        • pronoia

          I think that Christy’s 1st marriage broke down over that issue (at least in part — perhaps they simply grew up and found that they were not suited). They left the Sea Org — he wanted completely out of all things scientology and she wanted to be an indie.

          • Eclipse-girl

            TY. I do not know Christie’s history. I am aware she was in SO and recently testified for Laura DeCrescenzo.

    • DamOTclese2

      Of primary importance — for me, any way — is what Gerry thinks about all this. We all have opinions about wrongs that Scientology people have committed against others, and I would love to hear Gerry comment on the re-release of BFM as well as what he thinks about Marty apologizing and underscoring his efforts in committing rights violations against people who spoke the truth about what Scientology is and what Scientology does.

      I have tremendous respect for Gerry, I greatly value his insights and opinions and I would love to hear from him.

      • Eclipse-girl

        Was it you or someone else who felt that M & M could be forgiven if they could sit down and share a beer or beverage with Gerry A and Gerry A said that all was forgiven?

        I think that is a great standard to go by. I very much appreciate all the M & M have done, and are continuing to do. It is not up to me to forgive them

      • richelieu jr

        Oh gods, so do i!

        I -t would be so great to hear from him (every word he says in public is a finger in the eye of that nasty organization)…

    • Troy MacGyver SP

      he still sells those loony fucking books,too. You know what one i’m talkin’ about..

      • richelieu jr

        You bet i do!

  • Zer0

    How is it that a “religion” can be intellectual property?

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      How can anything that Hubs came up with be “intellectual property”?

      I mean who doesn’t get a hardy laugh out of the tone scale?

      • Espiando

        I stop laughing at 1.1 when the words “homosexuals” and “eliminate” are in close proximity.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Touche’, E.

        • DamOTclese2

          Hubbard complained to the FBI about the Nazis that were after him and yet here we had Hubbard with the same ideology that the Nazis had.

          • Sejanus

            Maybe the Third Reich wanted its intellectual property back…lol

            • Panopea Abrupta

              Great line
              Suitable for many sauces ..
              Gonna use it, thanx

    • Panopea Abrupta

      Doesn’t seem to be the property of too many intellectuals, in any case.

  • BumpIt McCarthy
    • aegerprimo

      New ads in a West Coast push: Orange County, Seattle, Los Angeles, Sacramento.

      https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/taking-down-co-on-craigslist-co-ads-on-craigslist.113779/page-61#post-2433270
      Walk the plank $cientology on Craigslist!

      • aegerprimo

        TY for the graphic THDNE

        LEAVE the Sea Org today. We can help you. 1-866-X-SeaOrg

        • Panopea Abrupta

          Got ’em in the last 5 mins.
          Wow, just wow for the new grafix ๐Ÿ˜‰

          Yo ho ho
          And a bottle of rum

          • aegerprimo

            Arrrgh matey!

    • DamOTclese2

      “A clam never gives up. Ever. Clamcong.” — Caddyshack.

      • aegerprimo

        Well, I wish the clams would give up putting ads on CL.

        • Panopea Abrupta

          But it is nice to know where their effort is going.
          It’s the unseen stuff that’s more bothersome.

        • Troy MacGyver SP

          Funny,I chose a new one to call to talk to while I’m painting my X’s. It is really sad to say the least. They don’t know which ad is running and who to talk to. Seems that these are the smaller missions for the most part. When you get someone who is motivated they’ll try to get you in that day!. Most of the other’s will mention,”Hubbtard” and wait for your response. I got one with,who is that? You could actually here her tearing threw SCRIPTS!

  • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

    Alexa update for Mar. 12: *refresh for images*

    Tony: US rank #16,752 โ€“ up 4 from yesterday. (Average rank last 3 months: 15,974)
    Scientology: US rank #39,668 โ€“ down 5,045 from yesterday. (Average rank last 3 months: 40,369)

    Difference: 22,920 โ€“ 5,049 more than yesterday. (Average difference last 3 months: 24,395)

    Clicks from India โ€“ 0% today.

    • Miss Tia

      Whoa, they really didn’t pay the India bill did they?

      • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

        I guess not. They had a good thing going. Lol.

    • Eclipse-girl

      I look forward to this every day. I didn’t like the way the red line was going recently.
      TY for doing this and being as consistent as you are with this.

      • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

        I had a strong feeling it was only a short lived thing, and they would bottom out again.

        Thank you for your kind words, E-girl. Work is taking up a lot of my time lately, so I don’t get to hang out much with you guys. I do however make time for the stats ๐Ÿ™‚

        • Eclipse-girl

          Many of us love what you do. We forget to let you know that.
          TY for everything.

    • Mark

      Ho! all that Alexa-tech for nothing! I thought their red line looked like an air-pressure diagram of someone trying to pump up a leaky tyre, but upon reflection it now resembles the pressures inside a whoopee-cushion.

  • media_lush

    new post up http://scientologybollocks.blogspot.co.uk

    … and here’s the first video I’ve seen of Connor Cruise talking….. judge for yourself but his mannerisms, voice etc really make me think he’s Tom’s biological son

    http://youtu.be/iMKHP__OGCY

    • Troy MacGyver SP

      wonder what happened to the site you showed us the about,The water cooler talk,at Brige. It seems to have vanished? Any Ideas? Copy of it anywhere?

      • media_lush

        ‘scientologycelebrity . wordpress. com is no longer available.

        The authors have deleted this site.’

        …. yeah, there’s quite a bit of discussion on it in the earlier comments. last time they took it down they at least kept it active with a single page placeholder, this time the whole thing’s gone. There was a final post put up which someone copied where they complained of the hate attacks they got from ESMB etc…. I have a lot of their old posts that I was sent from another poster months ago so I’ll put them up on my blog from time to time….

        the person(s) behind the blog originally said they had a book deal when they came back… either way I always enjoyed going there for the vicious lulz

        • Troy MacGyver SP

          EMBS?

          • media_lush

            Ex Scientology Message Board …. it’s very popular with many here

            • aegerprimo

              It’s actually Ex ScientoloGIST Message Board – http://www.forum.exscn.net
              I’m a fan, and ex, and a member. There are a few never-ins that post there as well.

        • Once_Born

          When you delete a free WordPress blog (which this was) the URL can never be used again – so if they ever re-emerge it will be at a different web address. Don’t bother watching the old one.

          • Miss Tia

            Thanks for that info, I didn’t know that! I’ll stop watching that URL now. That’s weird they won’t let people use it again–I mean the prior people who had it.

            • Once_Born

              I checked and confirmed that even the original owner can’t get the URL back, once a site has been deleted. I suppose that, once the data is gone from their servers, WordPress no longer know if people who claim to be the previous owners really are.

              This, of course, only applies to free blogs (those with .wordpress in the URL) not self-hosted WordPress blogs.

              The site might still return (you can back the content up, and restore it to a new account) but nobody can ever get a deleted URL back.

            • Missionary Kid

              Could it also be a way of stopping someone who’s trying to ascertain who they are?

            • Once_Born

              The nice thing about a free WordPress blog is that it is hosted on WordPress servers. Since the owner(s) do not have to register a domain name, it is practically impossible to find out who they are. This is one of the reasons I use a free blog instead of a (more powerful) self-hosted site for Scientology-related material.

              Even if the wrong person did manage to hijack the account, all they would get would be access to the admin page – they would have control of the blog, but would not learn anything about the owners that was not already visible on the site.

              WordPress might be able to tell someone with a court order the IP address(es) that the account was accessed from – but I doubt that the CofS could persuade them to do that.

              If the owners got caught, it is much more likely that they were careless about wiping the history from the computer they used to edit their blog from, and someone found the admin page address in there. Since this is the same as the site address, except it has /wp-admin tacked on to the end, they were busted.

            • Miss Tia

              Wow, thank you so much for going to check and verify that!! I am not too familiar with wordpress.

            • Once_Born

              You’re welcome. WordPress is not quite as powerful as something like Joomla! – but it is very stable, reliable and easy to use. I recommend it.

            • Miss Tia

              I have never heard of joomla! I use to use livejournal, but now i use dreamwidth—i go from obscure to obscurer ๐Ÿ™‚ i still have a vintage ads community on livejournal and sometimes cross post from DW to my personal LJ but not too often.

            • Once_Born

              Joomla! is a full-blown open-source content management system (as used by NASA for their website) which has extensions that do… almost everything you might ever want to (including blogging). However, it has a significantly steeper learning curve than WordPress.

        • Jo

          I was reading the comments there last night. It all kicked off cause they mentioned personal stuff about Elizabeth Moss. They also were defending her and saying she was cool.

    • Sejanus

      Every bit as vapid as dear old dad.
      Poor kid.

    • Ardent

      Ugh.

    • Seannie5

      Oh well, he says he loves her. For the cameras or for real….?

    • Seannie5

      He was raised by Tom so I wouldn’t put much weight in his mannerisms etc being like his. We soak up what we are around from birth.

      • media_lush

        it was the way he scrunched up his face when he laughed…. to me, anyway, he looked just like TC

        • Charlotte

          I do think he looks a lot like TC too, but I have friends who are adopted who look like they could biologically be their parents’ children.

    • EnthralledObserver

      Hey… that was Charli from Hi-5 interviewing. She was way cooler than Connor… the poor thing looked really awkward, barely looked at the camera. T.v is not really his thing, I suspect.

  • Ardent

    OT note: yesterday I told you all I was moving a long distance, but I put it badly, I’m sorry to say. I am living in Australia now, and moving away, sadly, to another place. I want to thank all the kind persons who commented on this bit of news, and I apologise for my bad sentence structure that led to some confusion. You’re a kind bunch here, and I have a while to go before I get on the plane. I’ll be here on and off, but then I expect a period of radio silence while settling in. Sorry to go off topic, I’ll now suggest a return to regular programming.
    Cheerio!

    • Eclipse-girl

      Ardent, I hope the move is not precipitated by bad stuff — Parents needing to be taken care of, or stuff like that.

      I hope the move goes well. It will be stressful. I hope you enjoy the new place you are moving to.

      • Ardent

        Thanks all. The move is somewhat due to trouble and personal problems. But I don’t think I should take away focus. I do REALLY appreciate the kind words from all of you. I will miss Australia terribly, but I am now a citizen, so I can return whenever I want, or can manage to. That is comforting. You’ve all warmed my heart. And as I mentioned, I’ll be here for a bit, still. : )

        • Eclipse-girl

          Take care of the troubles that you need to deal with.
          We will be here when you can rejoin us.

          (((HUGS))) it is great that you are a citizen of Australia.

        • Charlotte

          If you make it Gold Coast way before you go, let me know

    • aegerprimo

      I hope you have a smooth move. Hope to see you here again soon!

    • jeff

      Well, I for one, wish I could live in Oz. Best of luck in your new place.

      • Jimmy3

        Same here. It’s certainly more comfortable living in Oz than in gen pop.

    • Charlotte

      After making the move to Australia several years ago, I’d be upset to have to live anywhere else. Let us know how you get on.

      • EnthralledObserver

        You aren’t a ‘native’ either?

        • Charlotte

          Well, no, but I birthed 3 Aussie babies…

          • EnthralledObserver

            lol… good enough. I wasn’t judging. ๐Ÿ˜‰

            • Charlotte

              Born in one country, then moved as a toddler to another; Australia is the country I chose for myself pretty well as soon as I was old enough to make the move. Best place.

    • Miss Tia

      Safe travels!!

      • Ardent

        Thanks, Miss! Not too happy about the missing 777…horrible and disturbing event. And not something to inspire nervous flyers like myself ( said he, incredibly selfishly).

    • Captain Howdy

      Good luck.

    • sugarplumfairy

      Hope you end up loving wherever you’re going..

    • EnthralledObserver

      Happy to have you here while it lasted… and I hope your move goes well and that you can regain your feet in the near future and return (or otherwise) as soon as you can. Best of luck, Ardent! ๐Ÿ™‚ Catch you when your internet is back up and running…

  • aegerprimo

    OT for today’s topic but relevant to the Bunker:
    Update at ESMB by JB Writer
    Scientology + Narconon Court Dates
    http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?34513-Scientology-Narconon-Court-Dates-2014-amp-2015-Updated-January-3-2014&p=913608&viewfull=1#post913608

    • Jimmy3

      That’s a nifty reference. Thanks for posting it here.

      • aegerprimo

        It is! She puts a lot of work into it.

        • Panopea Abrupta

          Night night
          Domani ๐Ÿ˜‰

  • Ardent

    Love the interview, Tony. This is a book I have long wanted to read. I’ll hunt down a copy, or download it. I just hope it doesn’t make me so angry I throw it against the wall. I’m not that sanguine about L.Ron, the son of a bitch.

    • Eclipse-girl

      It was the first book I read. It is a very good book. Even Marty was surprised by how it being a balanced book.

      I highly recommend it.

      • Sejanus

        I found it and Piece of Blue Sky to be excellent reads.
        Also have to say that John Sweeney’s Church of Fear was really good too.
        So many informative and well done books.
        Knowledge of who they are is $cientology’s greatest fear.

        • Eclipse-girl

          Jon and Russell were collaborators. Jon had a wealth on information that he shared with Russell. I still need to read Jon’s book. I read them too close together. I found the bio of hubbard so familiar, I had to put it down for other reading. I will get back to Jon’s book.

          • Sejanus

            I wish I could understand why I am so captivated by this whole mess called $cientology. I mean usually I am firing off marginally offence comments and such to lighten things…but at the core…it has just grabbed me.
            At times it almost feels like looking at a human populated zoo. You don’t want to stare but you cannot help yourself. When I have gone by the Buffalo, Toronto and Cambridge Orgs I have just wanted to shake these people with the 1000 yard stare and say ..”SNAP OUT OF IT”.
            I have no horror story having never been in, but I can feel the pain of others but also keep asking…how…how in the world did it happen? What was the thing that grabbed you to make you toss away good sense in favour of lies from a nut.

            • Eclipse-girl

              Why does watching attract those of who were “never ins”

              I am can’t be sure. I suspect that many of us had out own traumas that allowed us to have a enhanced sense of empathy? (I am not sure the words are right)
              I know I went through my own hell. I know that others have opened up about their hells.

              As much as I would like to think I would never have fallen for the cult, I know the cult prey are on the young and vulnerable. Everyone is vulnerable at points in their lives. I look at Tory Magoo, Bruce Hinds, Jeff Hawkins and many, many others. They are not stupid. They were compassionate.They really thought they could make a difference and change the word, and they though (mistakenly) the scientology was the answer

              I am captivated because there is a sense of “that could have been me”
              I am captivated because I see good, valuable people being caught in the web and unable to escape and I feel bad
              I am captivated because I give a damn.

            • Sejanus

              I guess I am glad my days of vulnerability are in the past with no harm befalling for misdeeds.
              Hopefully we will live long enough to remember when $cientology wasn’t just a footnote in a book on cults and human abuses and can explain how lucky a generation is with no exposure to it.
              Mercifully my home area seems pretty clear of Clears and Offensive Toolbags

            • Eclipse-girl

              I share the same hopes and dreams. The sooner it happens the better

            • Sejanus

              Migosh yer fast….lol

            • Eclipse-girl

              only sometimes

            • Sejanus

              So how long have you been doing the thing on here?
              I lurked for a couple years and then finally started posting in Jan-Feb of this year

            • Eclipse-girl

              I have been following scientology off and on for years.
              I found Xenu.net and the Jason Beghe interview a long time ago

              I only found this place when Leah R. left last ?july. I was sad when I learned I had missed out on Tony O’s wonderful articles for years .

              I lurked for a week, i think. I have a habit of speaking my mind and asking questions.

            • Sejanus

              Ya I have the same problem…gets me in tons of trouble now and again but it made me a good reporter…lol

            • anti-niblet

              Completely agree and cannot believe this goes on in this day and age, in this country, amongst well educated people. So we empathics become educators, to assist in the demise and help others.

            • Ardent

              I think you got it right on the money, E-Girl! Your post says pretty well what I feel myself as a never-in. Nicely put, thanks.

  • Seannie5

    Tony, not sure if you are aware but the story about Vivien Kubrick’s estrangement from her family is doing the rounds on twitter. Maria Popova (over 400k followers on twitter) tweeted this . Anne Thompson from indiewire retweeted her. http://explore.noodle.org/post/79458759510/since-vivian-kubrick-was-in-grade-school-she?utm_content=buffer2cd31&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

  • Panopea Abrupta

    RED-X RED-X RED-X

    I know it’s getting late for the birthday boy BUT it is a special occasion:

    Look at him – 103 , all hale and hearty, in striking health, so vibrant, the living proof that the states of Clear and OT XIX exist

    Oh, wait a minute ….

    CLICK, CLICK, CLICK – dismantle his putrid legacy one RED-X at a time

    https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/taking-down-co-on-craigslist-co-ads-on-craigslist.113779/page-61#post-2433270

    Ty Baby

    • Eclipse-girl

      because we can

      • Panopea Abrupta

        And we will heh heh Thanx
        Did you look at the new tentative schedule?

        • Eclipse-girl

          I will. thanks for telling me to do so.

          ETA : JUst did and notified us.

    • BumpIt McCarthy
  • SvenBoogie

    Have to join the chorus singing the praises of this book. Read it early on after first becoming curious about the whole $cientology history, etc, and it remains the best written, most engaging thing I’ve ever read on the subject of ol’ tubby.

  • SvenBoogie

    While I completely understand why, I find it unfortunate that the book is now no longer available in full online due to being back in print.

    • GalacticGreg

      Buying the $8 Kindle was cool – I”m glad to have it. Although I downloaded it of the ‘Net eons ago and read it twice. Russell deserves some sales out of this methinks.

      • SvenBoogie

        Yeah as I said I get it and understand why it was taken down, it was just convenient to have it there at times.

    • Eclipse-girl

      Give the author and the publishing co a chance to make back some money. That is why it was removed. The publishing co took a risk in republishing it. They deserve a chance to recoup their cost and actually make something from that risk

      I do not think authors make much money from e-reader versions of their works.

  • Sherbet

    Good interview, good book. I haven’t finished it yet, but I’m going to now. I love Tony’s conversational yet informed tone in interviewing.

    So, anyway, here I was tonight, taking a vacation from scientology, doing a crossword puzzle. One clue was “Sci Fi’s Hubbard.” Well, at least he’s described as “Sci Fi’s Hubbard” and not “Great religious leader Hubbard.” Then I picked up a book about the making of “West Side Story.” In the profile of Carole D’Andrea (Velma in the movie), I learned she was married to Robert Morse and had three daughters, one of whom is Andrea Doven, former assistant to Tom Cruise, married to Michael Doven, and worshippers at the altar of utter BS which is scientology.

    Enough, already.

    • Panopea Abrupta

      Won’t it be nice when he is relegated to an answer in a crossword puzzle?

      • Sherbet

        And nobody knows the answer, because he’s been long forgotten? Yeah, PA.

    • sumdayiwill

      hmm really cool coincidence or (put on my tinfoil hat) a cosmic message for you to get thy butt to the Bunker? ๐Ÿ˜‰

      • Sherbet

        Hmmm…either that or my “vacation” wasn’t nearly long enough to get away from Hubbardhubbub.

    • Jimmy3

      So you put the book down and head outside for a walk, where you find a man cutting down a tree while whistling the tune of “We Stand Tall.” There is no escape.

      • Sherbet

        How did you know, Jimmy?! I’m doomed, I say. Doomed.

      • DodoTheLaser

        ROFL!!

    • Eclipse-girl

      I always liked Robert Morse. I was very sad to learn that one of his children ( all daughters ) was inculcated by the cult. Now I might watch West Wise Story again just to get a glimpse of Carole d”Andrea

      • Sherbet

        I, too, like Robert Morse. Velma was a cool blonde.

    • Captain Howdy

      Next time you try to “escape” from the Bunker, even for a little while, this is what you can expect.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6Ffr1U7KMY

      • Sherbet

        That’s just as creepy now as it was when I first saw it. OK, I feel sufficiently threatened. I’m back.

        • Captain Howdy

          I bet Cobholio wishes he had a few of those babies.

          • Jimmy3

            So, if one tried to escape the bubble, they’d get the bubble. How cruel.

            • Captain Howdy

              Life is a series of bubbles, Jimmy.

            • Sherbet

              Man, that’s deep.

            • Jimmy3

              That was pretty deep, wasn’t it? I feel like a grasshopper.

            • Captain Howdy

              Become one with The Church of Bubble Jimmy & Sherbert..try it, you’ll like it.
              ….

            • Sherbet

              Groovy. You’re my new guru. But I’m going to bed now. Please keep Rover in its garage, OK?

            • Captain Howdy

              Me also..bed ways is right ways my droogies.

            • Sherbet

              Oooh, Clockwork Orange reference!

            • Jimmy3

              Goodnight you two

            • Sherbet

              Goodnight, James III.

          • Sherbet

            He’s probably designing them even as we speak.

            • Captain Howdy

              More like he’s getting drunk watching reruns of “Designing Women” doing gawd know what!

            • Sherbet

              Foot massage by Lou.

        • sumdayiwill

          By creepy you meant cool right? I love the prisoner and used to sneak out of bed to watch it on late night tv ..yep I was a strange child ๐Ÿ™‚

          • Sherbet

            The show was cool, but that security blob always scared me.

            • Ardent

              It was terrifying to me. Just horribly menacing.

      • Eclipse-girl

        Mr E and I were in Wales oh so long ago and made a diversion into Port Merion. I am still glad we did.

        • Captain Howdy

          Lucky you. The Prisoner put the permanent zap on my mind when I was a wee 10 year old watching it. That and the Avengers.

          • Eclipse-girl

            If you get in the area, it is worth the day trip. I do consider myself lucky. It was Mr E who put it on the itinerary without telling me why.

            “flapjacks are my favorite food” has become a household meme.

          • Ardent

            Me, too, Captain! I was a little younger, but utterly altered by those shows. And I’ll include Star Trek, which blew my young mind wide open.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    Someone want to take the next RED-X posting as there seems to be no sign of Super Power Wog tonight?
    I’m outta here in 30 minutes and it would be good to post the final one 12:30 EST or so.
    All you have to do is copy the link – my last RED-X post will take you there.

    • Eclipse-girl

      Yes, I will

      • Panopea Abrupta

        Beautiful – didn’t realize you’d be here still.
        Thanx

        • Sorry guys. I’m here just working on a project that’s due soon, but if Eclipse could takeover to post that would help as well. I’ll post tonight to close. I’m flagging just not checking in at the Bunkeroo. Thanks for the help EG.

          • Eclipse-girl

            We all have private lives.this is no problem for me. Do what you need to do. School and work are each very important.

            • Panopea Abrupta

              See you guys tomorrow, thank you both

            • THX A Bunch!

          • GalacticGreg

            o/t: an even better aVi now super PW. ๐Ÿ™‚

            • Eclipse-girl

              I was a fan of the power puff girls when they began. Luckily I had a daughter who like watching them, too.

            • I agree : )

        • Eclipse-girl

          Sleep well or have fun.

          (((HUGS)))

  • Bavarian Rage

    “they followed me religiously every day….”

    Makes sense – fair game is their religion, after all.

  • Free Minds, Free Hearts

    It looks like the authors took down the scientology celebrity wordpress site.

    “scientologycelebrity.wordpress.com is no longer available. The authors have deleted this site.”

    I wonder what happened. They were posting every week or so, pretty intense. Maybe they got caught. Or blew!

    • media_lush

      loads of talk about it here… just scroll through the comments

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        Thanks. I was at work for way too long and just got here.

    • Eclipse-girl

      I would recommend starting with the oldest comments. It was noticed early today.

  • Natalia 2.0

    Last comment highlight from a FANTASTIC article and then goodnight! (refresh)

  • GalacticGreg

    Getting the Kindle version tonight instead of simply using the 2 free copies I already have is the best thing I did today. That is for sure.

    Let us not forget what someone goes through, as an individual up against $cientology Inc.’s money and its forces arrayed against you, as in this: “… we should have won in the United States. Except, it seems to me, if you forgive me for saying so, that a ferocious litigant with access to unlimited sums of money in the United States can just keep a case going forever and ever. Here [England] itโ€™s called vexatious litigation — Russel Miller

  • anti-niblet

    Ordered Kindle version tonight! May be ordering and sending to other readers shortly…

  • Eclipse-girl
    • Eclipse-girl

      because we can

  • Are_sics

    Marty Rathbun’s 180 on “Bare Faced Messiah” is really amazing. I wondered in the past what it was he was dismissing as “propaganda”. I’m glad he could so straightforwardly admit he was wrong. (Maybe he’ll eventually have something important to say about his past characterizations of Gerry Armstrong, too?)

    Great interview with Russell Miller, Tony. And I’m very glad the book is coming out in the U.S. It’s a great read, indeed.

  • GalacticGreg

    Much appreciation to Galactic Patrol-Chris Shelton on the “Basics: A Sales Campaign by David Miscavige”. Terrific job Chris, and all who made the video- thank you.

    Galactic Greg-Max Spaceman

  • Exterrier

    This is such a great post and interview, plus another Chris Shelton video.

    1. Question….was LRon Hubbard Jr. Involved with the book at one point?

    2. Russel Miller. I apologize for deliberately ignoring your book, back when. It was on a shelf at a used bookstore in Glendale, where I got used Scientology books free……. And my way is always to read all sides and aspects of something that I am looking into. I really do that still, but not in this case, I confess: I was just getting into Scientology because of a love interest, and because my life was shattered and I had actually gotten a little help or stability from being enveloped by this warm, accepting group and it’s seemingly helpful introductory courses…. I cracked open your book right at all the lurid Crowley/Parsons stuff, and then at the crazy ship over boarding and chain locker stuff…..and it was just so unbelievably unbelievable and nasty, that I knew that reading it, true or not, would interfere with the nice and much needed little buzz I was getting from my scientology adventure, soI’d better not look at the book until they really pissed me off and I wanted to leave. That was ten years later, ha. It sure is a great and daring book.

    In part, it was so, so bad and lurid and batshit nuts that I figured that maybe the church was right, and there was just someone out there trying to destroy Hubbard and Scientology because it worked, using any lies and insinuations. So there was a bit of inoculation to begin with. But mainly it just seemed that nobody could be that bad…… There is a famous Hitler quote where he said, “my greatest weapon is my utter unbelievability”.
    No one can believe that the nice preacher would be embezzling the building fund and screwing half the congregation, or that the sweet couple next door has all those bodies buried in the back garden. Psychopaths have a certain invisibility shield going for them, unfortunately.

    It was a choice on my part, and, in my case, I was not harmed by the terrible things that befall most Scientologists and their families…..because I’d already bottomed out a bit in life and had nowhere to go but up. And I got to enter this fascinating sham world and have reason and experience to be on this blog of Tony’s now, deconstructing the experience. I’m glad I waited to read it, oddly, but now believe everybody in touch with Scientology should.
    And the way life works, I met some of the most fascinating out of the box, off the grid people while in and around it all, and it affects my life still in a positive way. Bit if I stuck around much longer than I did it would have crushed me for sure, as I saw it crush others.
    I met Barbara Cordova………Where is she…..has the church ruined her mind utterly with their babysitting silent treatment therapy for the nervous breakdown they gave her?

    • Exterrier

      There were edits to make above, bit Disqus or IPad are not allowing. I am not always quite that disjointed, ha.

      • Jimmy3

        It’s an iPad/safari issue I’ve encountered dozens of times. When a Disqus post exceeds a certain number of lines, you cannot click on the text to edit. I know for sure the issue is with the iPad or Safari, and not Disqus, because I’ve been able to edit such posts from my laptop.

        And it is a great post even without any editing.

        • Exterrier

          Aha….that’s very helpful, J3, and glad you liked my post!

          • Ardent

            It is a great post, Exterrier. Very interesting. Anytime you want to share your experiences inside the cult, feel free! Thanks.

    • GalacticGreg

      What a tale you have to tell Ex-t. Thank you for this.

    • aquaclara

      Love hearing your perspective through this. And glad we are here at the good part, after you’ve come out and are shaking off the experiences that enveloped you in the cult.

      And now there may be some new readers of Russell’s work who can enjoy learning more about LRH, but from a slightly different perspective.

      “The way life works” is a good way to describe bits of all of our lives, the normal and the funny and the “what the hell was I thinking” parts, too.

      All the best to you, Ex T. This was a fun birthday.

  • anti-niblet

    Of all the heinous things i read here regarding lrh and the cult, what makes me react with visceral revulsion is when i see him referred to as Source. Complete and utter disgrace.

  • Sydjazz

    Update from downunder. Here is the segment from last night
    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UzDCBPfFbjg

    • GalacticGreg

      good show! thank you.

    • Sarah James

      NarCONon what a waste. I guess we should expect to hear about the deaths soon. ๐Ÿ™
      Not happy to hear they are not required to be accountable to anyone in Australia. Another country that will have to react to deaths rather than prevent deaths.

    • valshifter

      ‘Busted, she said students, not patience. also the ”there are no doctors” statement is good, the doctors are the ex-patience/ students, who keep peddling dope who fall themselves victims of abuse.

  • DodoTheLaser

    Just want to thank Russell Miller for writing this book.
    I read the “Bare-Faced Messiah” on-line when I was still in.
    It sure helped. Thank you, Russell!

    • SvenBoogie

      I’m curious, what was your reaction to reading it at that time?

      • DodoTheLaser

        Well, I didn’t know if it’s factual, so I was approaching it as a possible negative fiction made up by “SP’s” trying to make Hubbard look bad and discredit dianetics and scientology.

        With that in mind, I kept reading. Some things sounded too familiar to be lies, so naturally my mind started connecting the dots.

        But even after reading many parts of the book, I still considered myself scientologists, “because tech works and helps people” mantra. But the seeds were planted.

        Few years later, with more personal experience, observations and some more books and I was pretty much Ex-scientologist in a closet.

  • GalacticGreg
  • Bunker Lurkers and Bunkerites! Help us flag those COS CL ADS

    https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/taking-down-co-on-craigslist-co-ads-on-craigslist.113779/page-61#post-2433270

    Sea Org members: The freeloader debt is legally unenforceable.

    • aquaclara

      Thanks, SP. All flagged, even the pesky new ones. All this from LRH BS. Unbelievable. Oh, and it looks like someone in Sacramento wasn’t appropriately observing LRH’s birthday. Red Xs in force.

  • DodoTheLaser

    The critical book about Hubbard is back in print on his birthday.
    This is ironic on so many levels. Was Hubbard not OT enough to prevent this from happening?
    Did someone let Xenu out? OSA is not wearing its hat? So many questions…
    The irony, it burns.

    • Missionary Kid

      The irony, it’s wonderful.

    • I just had this vision of that one song “Who let the dogs out???” But with Xenu dancing amongst the crowd.

      • DodoTheLaser

        Ha! Here is Xenu holding the book.

  • aquaclara

    So glad I checked back in and caught Tony’s update, plus so many great reader comments. Marty has a terrific addition to today’s (well, it’s 5:30 am here, so technically yesterday’s post but you know what I mean).
    Marty’s comments are important. And Mike Rinder has chimed in in the comments to Marty’s post.

    Catch it if you’ve missed it. Russell’s work is having a great effect already. Again.

    This is a LRH great birthday. Thanks, Tony and Russell and Marty and everybody. You’ve put the icing on the cake.

    • DodoTheLaser

      What Aqua said ๐Ÿ™‚

      • FromPolandWithLove

        I agree 100% ๐Ÿ™‚

        • aquaclara

          Good morning, Dodo and Poland! Oh, I am flipping through Thursday’s USAToday, and I catch a story promoted in the top banner on page 1: “Exposing this Adele Dazeem”. 1D.
          Section D has the story and it is cute, pokes fun at John Travolta. The author of the article is Josh Gad from Frozen. (On an iPad and can’t link. Sorry).

          Lol

      • FromPolandWithLove

        I agree 100% ๐Ÿ™‚

  • Juicer77

    This book, and others, have described LRon has the consummate storyteller: enthralling, captivating and with a superb sense of timing. My only response is WTH??? Both his writings and audio recordings are the most convoluted, disjointed mess of nothing. I just don’t see it.

    • Mooser

      “Both his writings and audio recordings are the most convoluted, disjointed mess of nothing. I just don’t see it.”

      You should be very grateful for that, and I hope you thank the Deity of your choice for it. And when you hear or read about people who found Ron a “consummate storyteller: enthralling, captivating and with a superb sense of timing”, spit three times (ptoo, ptoo, ptoo.) to stymie the Evil Eye, shudder and say to the self of your choice “There but for the grace of my choice of Deity….”

    • Buttons72

      I agree with this. I’m trying to struggle through Dianetics and I just don’t *get* the whole ‘enthralling, captivating’ thing… I am obviously missing something.

  • Gordon Freeman

    This book was the first expose’ of Scientology I ever read; a friend (here, in the US if you can believe it) had a dilapidated, half-falling-apart copy I read in the course of a week or so. Gripping stuff. Thanks for the interview, Tony.

  • Bavarian Rage

    Really look forward to Chris Shelton interviews. He communicates clearly and engagingly on his experiences, and is very level headed.

  • Tony and Marty just moved up a notch on the Scientology hit list (can they be any higher?) Don’t blame me for not knowing enough ‘inside baseball’ on Scienscamtology to be ‘in-tech’ with the current top ten hit list. There’s so many of you guys to keep track of nowadays!! Tori seems intent on trying to give all you guys a run for your money!! You go girl!! Did not know they’d gone to such great lengths to suppress this book. Not shocking….sad to say. Enjoy.