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Federal judge to Scientology: I’m taking over the arbitration, and it’s jail if you interfere

[Judge James Whittemore]

Two years after he ordered Luis and Rocio Garcia to submit to the Church of Scientology’s internal arbitration scheme, Tampa federal Judge James Whittemore has finally heard enough bickering by both sides and is taking matters into his own hands.

In an order he released yesterday after a status hearing on Friday, Judge Whittemore has given the Church of Scientology just two weeks to turn over to him the names and contact information for 500 Scientologists in good standing in the Los Angeles area. The judge will then personally choose three people from that list and secure their cooperation to act as arbitrators. And he warned that if he catches either side contacting or responding to the three people he selects, he will hand out sanctions — which could include jail time.

Can you imagine, a federal judge calling up a Los Angeles Scientologist and asking them to sit on an arbitrating panel, and telling them not to contact the church about it?

Good luck on that one, judge.

This is the latest crazy development in a fraud lawsuit that the Garcias, an Irvine couple, filed in the Tampa court in 2013, alleging that they had been lied to and defrauded when they turned over hundreds of thousands of dollars in donations during their careers as church members. Scientology argued that the Garcias had signed contracts which required them to take any disputes to an internal arbitration process. And despite evidence from top former church officials that the procedures described in those contracts were shams designed to keep people from getting refunds, and despite the church’s own admission that it actually had no arbitration guidelines and had never, in its decades-long history, ever actually held an arbitration, Judge Whittemore ordered that the Garcias submit to the process, citing his inability to interfere with Scientology’s internal matters because of its religious protections under the First Amendment.

But since then both sides have accused the other of operating in bad faith as they’ve failed to seat any of the three arbitrators who, the church insists, must be members in good standing. The Garcias have refused to choose Scientologists hand-picked by the church, but the church declares any Scientologists the Garcias propose as being “not in good standing.”

Tired of the many motions filed by both sides, the judge is now putting the church in a very unusual spot. In just two weeks, the secretive organization is required to turn over to a federal court the names, phone numbers, and occupations of 500 Los Angeles Scientologists, and indicate which of them work for the church.

Oh, we can tell you that the Church of Scientology is not going to be happy about that. But will church attorney Wally Pope risk making Whittemore even angrier than he already is by asking for permission to appeal the order?

Imagine what it was like for the poor sap who had to tell church leader David Miscavige about this.

This lawsuit still has the ability to surprise us, even two years after it looked like it was dead.

The order:

Garcia v. Scientology: Order about Judge choosing arbitrators by Tony Ortega on Scribd

 
——————–

Bonus items from our tipsters

As if we needed any more proof that the Writers of the Future contest is a Scientology front, the awards gala will be showing at local churches…

 

 
Actual caption: “Look who just joined staff! We are SO happy to have Class VIII Case Supervisor, Bob Lauffer, back on the team!!!”

 

 
More begging for money, this time so the glamorous Meghan Fialkoff can put on an awards show for Drug Free heroes…

 

 
——————–

Countdown to Denver!

 

 
HowdyCon 2017: Denver, June 23-25. Go here to start making your plans.

 
——————–

Scientology disconnection, a reminder

Bernie Headley has not seen his daughter Stephanie in 4,717 days.
Quailynn McDaniel has not seen her brother Sean in 1,820 days.
Claudio and Renata Lugli have not seen their son Flavio in 2,314 days.
Sara Goldberg has not seen her daughter Ashley in 1,354 days.
Lori Hodgson has not seen her son Jeremy in 1,066 days.
Marie Bilheimer has not seen her mother June in 592 days.
Joe Reaiche has not seen his daughter Alanna Masterson in 4,681 days
Derek Bloch has not seen his father Darren in 1,821 days.
Cindy Plahuta has not seen her daughter Kara in 2,141 days.
Claire Headley has not seen her mother Gen in 2,116 days.
Ramana Dienes-Browning has not seen her mother Jancis in 472 days.
Mike Rinder has not seen his son Benjamin in 4,774 days.
Brian Sheen has not seen his daughter Spring in 881 days.
Skip Young has not seen his daughters Megan and Alexis for 1,283 days.
Mary Kahn has not seen her son Sammy in 1,156 days.
Lois Reisdorf has not seen her son Craig in 737 days.
Phil and Willie Jones have not seen their son Mike in 1,242 days.
Mary Jane Sterne has not seen her daughter Samantha in 1,486 days.
Kate Bornstein has not seen her daughter Jessica in 12,595 days.

 
——————–

3D-UnbreakablePosted by Tony Ortega on April 11, 2017 at 07:00

E-mail tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Our book, The Unbreakable Miss Lovely: How the Church of Scientology tried to destroy Paulette Cooper, is on sale at Amazon in paperback, Kindle, and audiobook versions. We’ve posted photographs of Paulette and scenes from her life at a separate location. Reader Sookie put together a complete index. More information about the book, and our 2015 book tour, can also be found at the book’s dedicated page.

The Best of the Underground Bunker, 1995-2016 Just starting out here? We’ve picked out the most important stories we’ve covered here at the Undergound Bunker (2012-2016), The Village Voice (2008-2012), New Times Los Angeles (1999-2002) and the Phoenix New Times (1995-1999)

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of L.A. attorney and former church member Vance Woodward
UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists
GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice
SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

Other links: Shelly Miscavige, ten years gone | The Lisa McPherson story told in real time | The Cathriona White stories | The Leah Remini ‘Knowledge Reports’ | Hear audio of a Scientology excommunication | Scientology’s little day care of horrors | Whatever happened to Steve Fishman? | Felony charges for Scientology’s drug rehab scam | Why Scientology digs bomb-proof vaults in the desert | PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer | The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill | Scientology boasts about assistance from Google | The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

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  • Isn’t an order for a religious organization to turn over a list of members inherently unconstitutional? Sorry if that’s already been asked

    • Missionary Kid

      Since this is a part of a lawsuit, and $cientology is obligated to provide a $cientologist in good standing by their own rules and every one that the plaintiffs have named are ruled not in good standing. The list probably won’t be released. Co$ can object, but it’s a measure of how they have systematically declared people selected as not in good standing. $cientology certainly can object on those grounds, so that makes it another thing that they can object to, but the judge wasn’t asking for all of the $cientologists (although, with the dwindling numbers, that may actually be all of them).

      What the judge is asking for is essentially a jury pool.

      • dchoiceisalwaysrs

        >” how they have systematically declared …”
        Most likely they have systematicaly manufactured the standing and perjured to the Garcias and thus to the court. The standing before chosen by Garcias ..was likely not even an issue, then upon the CofS needing to prevent them from qualifying for the designation, manufactured the standing assesment and thus was able to declare them “NOW” not in good standing. Of course the omission of the ‘now’ or ‘any time’ is a typical deceptive evasive statement intented to hide their very shifty perjurious intent and mislead.
        An acceptable truth…a manufactured truth to cover up the underlying truth.

        • Missionary Kid

          You wrote what I meant better than I.

  • Oh my!

    LOVELY ROOMS 2 BLOCKS FROM BASE – LA

    Publication Date: 11 Apr 17
    UPSTAT ROOMS, USE OF FULL KITCHEN: Oven, Microwave, Fridge, Coffee Maker, Blender & everything you need! Some with new stainless steel appliances. Each room themed after a different hat Ron wore. Some with private baths & balconies and covered parking. All rooms have WiFi, and use of the shared kitchen & living room.

    Which Ron-Hat did they use for the bathroom?

    • Sherbet

      “Upstat rooms” is about the lamest real estate description I’ve ever seen.

    • A couple of years ago Flag prohibited such private advertisements by COS members, and does so periodically. (As I recall, there is a thread about it on ESMB and/or WWP.) In the view of the COS, such advertisements and rentals “steal” money from Flag Accommodations, and violate the rule that one much “flow power to power” (i.e., flow money to Flag and the COS).

      • Missionary Kid

        That’s flag, where Co$ owns hotels. They don’t own hotels in L.A., so it isn’t a matter of taking business from Co$ there, IMO.

        • I don’t know if the same rule applies in LA, but the COS now has two buildings for long-term rentals in LA for visiting public. One is located where L. Ron Hubbard Way dead-ends into Fountain. The other is near the Celebrity Centre.

          Then of course there is Celebrity Centre itself.

          • Missionary Kid

            Let’s see what happens. If they smack down the people offering the rooms, it would be another case of screwing the parishioners. On the other hand, it could be claimed that the rooms are being offered to regular $cientologists that are looking for a place to live.

      • mockingbird

        Great, the Sea Org members can be armed. That will end well. They can read a few references on disposing of people quietly and without sorrow and ruining utterly too.

      • chukicita

        The Razzline has currently nine ads for rentals in C W.

        • Interesting about the Razzline. It was a couple years ago, perhaps several now, where one of the COS Facebook police posted something on Facebook about ads for Clearwater housing being NOT OK as they took revenue from Flag. Somebody who had been in and around Flag for years told me that the policy was enforced off and on. I guess now is and “off” time.

    • OOkpik

      The kind farmers used to cover cow pats with?

    • grundoon

    • grundoon
  • exccla

    I hope that some scn. they pick are under the radar . How great would that be ! Of course they wouldn’t be utr anymore-which will be better for them anyway, unless they lose some loved ones through disconnection .

  • flyonthewall
    • Jimmy3

      In Birmingham they love the gubner. Boo hoo hooooo.
      But we all did what we could do.

    • salin

      Ya, no constitutional issue regarding Church and State with this.

    • OOkpik

      Scientology don’t need no stinkin’ Senate vote!

      They are pretty much permitted do whatever they want to whomever they want, whenever they want and wherever they want without much resistance. They already have a police force, guns, tasers, dogs, a prison, a penal code, a kangaroo court..oh, and religious cover.

  • Gus_Cox

    Dear Judge:

    Pleeeeez pleeeeeez pleeeeeeeeeezzzzz call meeee!!!! (raising hand frantically)

  • Ashley Myrick

    I saw some of the responses suggest that the Garcias would be helping others by going through with their case and winning. That assumes that would actually win at arbitration. They might be right and they might deserve to win but I’m not sure any three random current Scientologist from California would rule in their favor. If they can get a settlement and it’s fair well I count that as a win because it’s still making Scientology dish out some funds. Problem is they probably have to sign a non-disclosure agreement along with it and I’m not sure I would want that. Personally I’d want to tell the world what the settlement was

    • TonyOrtega

      Winning? Win what? The Garcias have been fucked over by a judge who against all evidence to the contrary accepted the idea that Scientology can actually run a fair arbitration, and forced the Garcias to submit to it. Even if Whittemore can force Scientology to accept three arbitrators selected by him, the chances that the Garcias get a fair hearing from that panel is zero.

      If the church instead bails on this and cuts a check to make this go away, it’s a huge victory for the Garcias. They would have preferred to have an actual trial on the merits, but his judge made that impossible, at least so far.

      As for a gag, the Garcias have already put their lives in the church on display for four years now. What more do you expect them to say? These people are not campaigners — have you seen them giving interviews?

      This happens every time. It’s so easy for armchair quarterbacks to say what they would do in this situation, but I don’t see them exposing themselves by filing lawsuits.

      If you expect the Garcias or Debbie Cook or anyone else who sues the church to risk their livelihoods and reputations because you want them to “bring down” the church, then you badly misunderstand the nature of civil litigation.

      Our government has the power to investigate, litigate, and punish the church into oblivion. Why doesn’t it? I don’t know. But in the meantime, stop expecting private citizens to do the government’s job.

      • flyonthewall

        did you see my library joke? It was funny right? Think it went over people’s heads

        • Jimmy3

          Other than the book tour, you’ve never been to a library and you know it.

          • flyonthewall

            i think the magazine rack at 7-11 counts as a library, regardless of what the clerk yells

            • iampissed

              You just look at the ones that block the cover from being seen.

        • iampissed

          Went over mine.

      • TonyOrtega

        Ashley, I know your post agreed with some of this. I’m speaking more generally to the grousing I’m already seeing from the usual suspects even before the Garcias might end up with a huge victory after what looked like a completely terrible situation.

      • iampissed

        Yea I’m good with a NDA. Its the least they deserve. Sometimes it is what is is.

      • Exactly… Why don’t the Law makers do something about this Crime Syndication? Why did they and do they, keep it alive!

  • Judge James’ arbitration should be televised. A&E – take a note.

  • flyonthewall

    Man, I’m super bummed. πŸ™

    I wasn’t able to make reservations at the library. They were all booked up

    • Rasha

      I couldn’t make it there, driving on the pike took its toll.

      • Rasha

        I tried paging them, but they weren’t covered. Dewey know what to do in this …. can we turn down the volume?

        • flyonthewall

          you can return another day. Sure it’s fine

    • iampissed

      This is freestyle right?

      • Rasha

        YESH

        • iampissed

          Well let those freek theten fly….I says.

          • Rasha

            TACKLE HUG

  • What’sup

    Pretty sure the lady next to me at the supermarket named her daughter Cirrhosis…..that’s what it sounds like.

    • Missionary Kid

      Supposedly, a nurse told me a long time ago that a woman wanted to name her daughter Positive Wasserman. The doctor talked her out of it.

      • Missionary Kid

        ETA. The Wasserman Test is the test for syphilis.

        • What’sup

          Don’t I know it.

          • Missionary Kid

            Positive Wasserman means someone has syphilis.

            • What’sup

              Way ahead of ya. πŸ˜‰

            • Missionary Kid

              You are certainly ahead of me. Just making sure. πŸ˜€

        • iampissed

          Thank you…never been there.
          ETA: not for lack of trying….in my youth.

          • Missionary Kid

            I was hired by a company, and before the hiring was complete, I had to take a drug test. When I went to the lab, they got ready to draw blood. Mystified, I asked what test I was taking. They said it was for syphilis. They verified that it was the test number that was called for.

            I told them to hold it until I could contact the company. Finally, things were straightened out and I gave urine for the drug test.

            When I talked to the person who hired me, he said it could have been worse if I failed the syphilis test. Badump.

      • iampissed

        Pure power….now that’s a name, from Blown for Good.

    • Jimmy3

      I have a son named Wild Turkey. These two should be together.

      • iampissed

        I’m a Jack fan…but I’ll up ya on that.

        • iampissed

          I wanted to name my kid Ishkabibble….not Ish Kabibble, that’s silly.
          ETA: MC1R would have nothing to do with it. I’m also the guy who brought
          a roll of gaffers tape (not that shitty silver stuff) the black stuff, to birthing class
          And said the words….Ladies this is the answer to all you problems, true story.

          • Rasha

            I knew someone who claimed her uncle was named Ish Kabibble…. Not proven, though. Said he was in the Merchant Marines.

          • grundoon

            How long did it take you to wriggle out of the tape?

            • iampissed

              I did talk about premature labor.

          • Juicer77

            Gaffers tape fixes everything. True story.

    • Rasha

      Don’t get me starte- HEY! Myocardial Infarction! No peeps this year!!! Sorry…. hold on….

      • iampissed

        Let’s not talk about that. Cost me a 6 weeks in hospital.

        • Rasha

          (checks that off) gotcha.

          • iampissed

            Your a nice person.

            • Rasha

              *shnuggle*

      • What’sup

        It was my mistake. Curiosity got the better of me and i had to ask.

        Me; “Excuse me, is your daughters name Cirrhosis…..like the liver disease?”

        Her; “As if, ya dickhead. It’s Psoriasis….like the skin condition”

        Me; “My bad, it’s lovely”

    • Kim O’Brien

      i know someone who named her daughter Candida . Go ahead and google ” candida ” . I’ll wait .
      ( fast forward 10 seconds )
      p.s. yes ….the word you are looking for is ..EEEEWWWWWW

      • iampissed

        Dose it have some reference in opera?

        • EmmaDaoust

          Candide is an operetta by Leonard Bernstein based on the novella by Voltaire. This commercial interlude was brought to you by…

          • Kim O’Brien

            Vagasil …for those ” hard to reach ” yeast infections

            ugh

            • EmmaDaoust

              Canesten works better.

        • Kim O’Brien

          candida is the clinical term for a yeast infection . ya know …vagina stuff

          you’re welcome πŸ™

          • TexasBroad

            Embarrassing story, but not mine this time at least. I told a girlfriend that cranberry juice helps and she bathed in it – lol!

          • iampissed

            I love vagina stuff…I promise.

      • What’sup

        I know what Candida is……Upstate New York.

        • Kim O’Brien

          it’s ” up” something ..that’s for sure .

          • Taffy Sinclair

            krotch?

    • daisy

      Our last name is Nickel – my middle name is Pumper. He fought for Penny , mom was sober so I am daisy.

      • iampissed

        I got one….I got one. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6ed88a13eb45c71318f7ee2c964c73831dfb157f0882eec6d635d949b1708b87.jpg
        You are named after Santas favorite dog. By the way the dogs name is puppernickle.

        • iampissed

          And in case you think that maybe I just pulled that of the internet.
          Nope it’s really my kids girlfriends dog and helped pull me out of a funk
          after my Dads passing.

          • Juicer77

            That doggie is cute and sweet to a ridiculous degree. πŸ™‚

      • Gus_Cox

        Penny Pumper Nickel. That is bloody funny. Good thing your mom was around πŸ™‚

    • iampissed

      Here we go…..move over rabbits.

    • Missionary Kid

      I have dated women named Sue Wood, Mary Will and Sherri Cann. After she dated me, Sue dated a guy who was going to SC named Brook Trout. He had a twin brother named Lake. I was in the service with someone named Paris Frantz.

      • iampissed

        Well did they?

        • Missionary Kid

          A genlteman doesn’t tell.

          • iampissed

            That is true.

      • iampissed

        Names in the 70s could be interesting.

        • Missionary Kid

          That was in the 60’s. In the 80’s I knew a guy named Harry Dong.

          • iampissed

            Oh…that’s just dong.

            • Liberated

              My son knew a girl Katie Hitler….blonde hair, blue eyes.
              Her people were Norwegian…nice girl.

            • Missionary Kid

              Hitler had relatives that immigrated to the U.S. They changed their name. IIRC, it was a nephew.

            • All together now:

              “he should have stuck to Schicklgruber”

          • Liberated

            How about Harold ( Harry ) Beaver….he was a cop.

            • Missionary Kid

              Harry is of Chinese descent.

            • Liberated

              Huh ?

            • Missionary Kid

              I should have said “Harry Dong is of Chinese descent.”

          • Gus_Cox

            (rolling on the floor laughing) You had me going in the first post (Brook Trout, etc.) but now (Harry Dong) I have to call BS! (still peeing myself laughing)

            • Missionary Kid

              If I reveal the educational institution that I worked at, it would give me away, but Harold Dong graduated from there. He was a nice guy, but I don’t think that his Chinese parents realized the name they gave their child could cause problems.

            • Gus_Cox

              But Mr. and Mrs. Trout, Frantz, et al have no excuses lol That must have been some institution for one person to have met so many people with such entertaining names lol (still laughing!)

            • Missionary Kid

              Mary Will went to the same college I did, as well as Sue Wood. Sherri Cann, I met through my sister, and a couple of years after I dated her, she moved into the same apartment building I stayed in contact with her off and on for at least 40 years. I’m 72, so I’ve had a lot of time to collect all those names. I believe Sherri is deceased, like a lot of the people I used to know. I met Harry Dong about 15 years after I graduated from college. I was in the service with Paris Frantz 50 years ago.

            • Gus_Cox

              What a collection! Thanks very much for sharing that – best laughs I’ve had all week! πŸ˜€ And I’m laughing again as I write this – that’s one helluva roll call!

      • Missionary Kid

        I had a distant relative named Kermit Slobb. His son took his mother’s surname.

        • iampissed

          I hope it wasn’t Kermit D Frog….sorry had to.

          • Missionary Kid

            That Kermit predated Mr. Frog by probably 50 years.

    • Robert Eckert

      A friend of mine who works as a street artist had to keep a straight face when he learned that the little girl he was going to draw was named Latrina.

  • Rasha

    I can’t stop giggling tonight…. My boss was pissed today, I can’t find any vital documents, but I’m in a fit of giggles…..

    so…..

    https://youtu.be/uwu6lx4sFYE

  • PODCAST: Independent Scientology Outside of the Church: Mark Shreffler – Part 1, by the Advanced Organization of the Great Plains.

    This is the first podcast by the Advanced Organization of the Great Plains in six years. I suspect we have Reza Aslan to thank for the resurrection of the Scientology Outside of the Church Podcast.

    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/scientology_on_the_outside/2017/04/12/an-evening-with-mark-shreffler–part-one

    * * * * * BEGIN INTRODUCTION * * * * *

    Scientology Outside of the Church presents β€œAn Evening with Mark Shreffler” Part One where we discuss his early days in the church, communication, and his participation on the TRs Pilot.

    * * * * * END INTRODUCTION * * * * *

    • Noesis

      Nothing speaks louder to the “success” of Independent Scientology than a podcast interview of some guy who is still living the hoax, even AFTER the Founder of the subject admitted that he had failed, then ignominiously died a very humble and human death, while hiding out from process servers and tax investigators in a BlueBird motorhome on a tumbledown “ranch” in Podunk.

      Even the first two minutes of that interview were gruesomely embarrassing.

      It’s sort of like somebody describing their “wins” from having been beaten and robbed because “Hey look! I still have some of my own teeth!”

      • Missionary Kid

        Remember, too, that LRH had Vistaril, a psych drug in his system, prescribed by a $cientologist doctor.

  • chuckbeattyxquackologist75to03

    I’d have asked for 3 Apollo vets to be on the Arbitration.

    a) Caroline Webb
    b) Art Webb
    c) Ken Delderfield

    All 3 I’ve seen in photographs or videos of FLB buildings.

    Then, accept the judgement.

    No one in the outside world gets the nuances of the violations of Hubbard’s policies that official Scientology is perpetrating.

    There’s no sense fighting cults that don’t follow their own rules that their cult founder left them.

    You can’t even bring up this point sensibly to the outside world. Official Scientologists are not following official Hubbard’s rules, and dumping on the Garcias, partially by not letting the Garcias at least get their unused advanced donations.

    There’s no recourse to cults violating their cult rules.

    It’s really grounds to sue the outside courts for failing to allow one to sue a church, period.

    It burns me that the outside world doesn’t allow citizens to sue Scientology for being deceptive, period. I mean, who better has “standing” to sue Scientology, than a person screwed by Scientology deceptively, even IF the Scientology legal docs say that the Scientologist can’t sue. But what about the rights of someone who is excommunicated from Scientology, how can Scientology enforce an excommunicated ex member to lose their rights NOT to sue Scientology.

    That seems fundamentally immoral and wrong.

    The legal docs that Scientologists sign bind them to the bizarre world of Hubbard’s followers intentionally not following the rules against ex followers who signed legal docs binding the ex followers.

    I think there is still something fundamentally wrong that ex members can’t sue. They are NOT members anymore! Scientology’s religious rules have NO power over excommunicated former members.

    The courts are enforcing Scientology’s Catch 22s.

    • sizzle8

      How about Suzette, Arthur and Diana?

      • chuckbeattyxquackologist75to03

        Not there in Clearwater, and Suzette and Arthur not in good standing. The 3 I suggested, are in Clearwater.

        I’d get some Apollo vets who’ve see it all, and have seen how LRH operates and know the loopholes, so as to come out as good as the Garcias can squeeze out of Scientology, despite all the pressures.

        To me, suing is correct, since the Scientology justice system is intentionally being violated and nothing can be done to correct Scientology to do anything even by their own rules (this Int Justice Chief letter requirement disallowing Garcias to get onto the routing form is a violation of Hubbard’s policies, but no one can correct the Int Justice Chief and no one who is outside the movement can correct those in the movement to follow Hubbard’s policies). So the Garcias are screwed, and the best the Garcias could do is get some Apollo vets on the arbitration, but if Hubbard policy is followed, best Garcias are allowed to get would be unused advanced donations, and not get the IAS membership donations nor the SuperpowerBuilding donations back.

        My earlier advice two years or more ago to the Garcias was NOT to lump all their claims in their one lawyer claim, but the Garcias were just doing what others seem to have gotten away with in violation of Hubbard’s policies, so I guess they thought they could just simplify it with one legal case.

        I’d have split their refund/repayment request into two. a) go for their unused advanced donations, the easiest to get, and just do the Refund Repayment Routing Form for all their unused APs (advanced payment donations); and then b) sue for the deceptively snookered SuperpowerBuilding Donations.

        Because the c) IAS membership monies, is not returnable by LRH’s policies, never was, and even though some of those IAS donations have been being returned to people, I’ve heard, that is wrong and NOT per LRH to do so. So, even if Scientology has been returning some people’s IAS donations, that is wrong per policy in their green volumes. No Hubbard policy lets anyone get their IAS donations back, they have to eat that loss. Now if they wish to sue for their IAS donations, fine, do so and see what happens seperately also.

        • sizzle8

          Thanks for the info Chuck.
          Were Suzette and Arthur officially declared?
          She should write a book – she would make a mint.

          • chuckbeattyxquackologist75to03

            Someday they ought to tell their stories, because I don’t think Hubbard family ever get officially declared.

            They are just unofficially treated like SPs, like Mary Sue Hubbard was considered an SP by Miscavige who hated her and she hated him.

            Suzette may know policy good enough, but neither were steller leaders of large zones within the movement. Arthur was an artist and goof off. Suzette for short periods was pretty high up, but Diana is the only one who was consistently off and on in top management, Diana was in the Exec Strata and Diana was a Commodore’s Staff Aide and she had more top management facetime with L. Ron in the late 1960s and early 1970s.

            All aren’t in Clearwater. Suzette and Diana would be able to sit on the arbitration though, if they were available, policy knowledge wise that is.

            Realistically you have to have Sea Org or staffers who know policy enough to grade the matter per Hubbard’s policies.

            And grade how much, if any, money of the IAS membership and Superpower Building donations can, if at all, be returned to the Garcias due to the illegal salesmanship deceitfulness that either the IAS Regs or the Superpower Building Regs did on the Garcias. Bad Regging resulting in deceitful money improperly obtained is open to trouble, since there are no rules. In fairness, since already some persons have gotten their IAS membership donations back to some degree, that precedent has occured and it’s a pattern Scientology has started to abide with, that is a tiny degree of fairness on their parts. It’s up in the air since there no policy telling how to determin that part of illegal (“Crim Regging”) regging return of donations to the person who was illegally or criminally regged.

      • Taffy Sinclair

        Where are those 3 nowadays? I really don’t know who’s dead, alive, still in, out, etc….

    • iampissed

      I hope they are all in good standarding they would be perfect.

    • Noesis

      On the other hand – is it really surprising that the leadership of a hoax that charges hundreds of thousands of dollars for failing to deliver its promised “soul astronaut” powers…would then make it difficult for folks to ask for any unused monies back…now that they know that Scientology is a hoax?

      This case has lasted much longer than I dreamed possible.

      If Davey feels threatened by the possibility that an actual arbitration might occur…or that potentially still-in Scientologist will be exposed to the tip of the litigation iceberg that has been launched against the church…maybe that will result in a settlement for the Garcia’s and a laurel and hardy (lol) laugh at the wee one.

    • mockingbird

      How about Jon Atack and Hanna Eltrigan Whitfield and yourself ? Haha.

      • chuckbeattyxquackologist75to03

        No, it has to be Scientologists in good standing, and I honestly have given over the past months and year, I’ve given genuine names of Flag Land Base persons who would be as good as one can ask for.

        People who lived with Hubbard, like Delderfield and the Webbs, would be fine and as good as one can expect for long term Sea Orgers who have a feel for justice.

        In the mental pecking order, Apollo vets with Hubbard facetime in their careers have something that Mike Ellis for all his Int Justice Chiefing tiny inexperience in all of it, doesn’t have.

        If I was in good standing I could do this. I’ve done Boards of Review and Review Comm Evs, I know the drill, it’d be a couple late nights’ work.

        I used to work in Senior HCO Int 1984-1986, and I’ve overturned injustices. I know the loopholes.

        And the Garcias, depending on where their heads are at on the subject of Scientology, and their behavior publicly and in terms of committing, or not, continuous actually damaging suppressive acts, might play a tiny part. But the Refund Repayment Routing Form CAN and was ordered by LRH to be doable by mail, and that’s the no muss no fuss method for doing the Refund Repayment Routing Form when people refuse to do the Chaplain (session) step. LRH allowed, I read and worried and failed to get the “mail in” steps included in the broadly today issued Refund Repayment Routing Form. Being “SP” does not preclude one doing the Refund Repayment Routing Form, no Hubbard writing says block “SPs” their refunds/repayments.

        • Mary Smith

          Could you publish where you could send such a request for money on account to be sent back by mail?

          • chuckbeattyxquackologist75to03

            https://disqus.com/by/chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03/

            Somewhere in my zillions of postings, I’ve listed out Hubbard’s Refund/Repayment policies.

            Now, if you have money on account, and if you are in “good standing”, and if you wish a return of your unused donated money, you have to make the request of the org or mission who has your unused adanced payment donations.

            For instance, if the person, you or someone else, has “money on account” at say Flag Service Org, then you make your request to Flag Service Org.

            You can call Reception Flag Service Org, and ask the Receptionist that you wish to receive a copy of the Refund/Repayment Routing Form.

            Per the “Routing Forms” stations, in all orgs, the Receptionist has copies of all of the routing forms.

            The Receptionist is the one who can send you the routing form, or the Receptionist will refer you to someone, and it’s as simple as phoning the org or mission where you have money on account, and the Receptionist will take it from there.

            The rules for the return of unused payment donations, are listed on the Routing Form. If you are in good standing, you can go to your org or mission, and use their Qualifications Library, and study up all of the references listed on the Refund and Repayment Routing Form, so you see what the rules are.

            The Refund and Repayment Routing form steps, can be pretty quickly done, just get a copy of the Routing Form and do it.

            To be sure that Scientology does NOT declare you “SP” and deny you the right to do the routing form, be sure to muzzle what you say, and don’t admit to any suppressive acts.

            If you have a copy of the Ethics Book, you might want to familiarize yourself with the list of suppressive acts, so as to not inadvertantly commit any nor admit of any, so they can’t deny you the right to do the routing form.

            Hubbard never denied “SPs” the right to do the routing form, but currently, the Garcias and others are being denied the right to do the Refund/Repayment Routing Form.

            The way to behave with them is be polite, friendly, and just stick to your guns and do the routing form, don’t do anything that lets them declare you SP and deny you the right to do the routing form.

            Polite and neutral, don’t get angry at them.

            It can take months even when you complete all your steps on the routing form, depending on how much money it is that they need to return to you. Sometimes it’s fast, but the amount of reasons they have against you, and if the amount you are asking for in return is too huge, that will cause delays or even stop the process.

            What I advise people is be polite, concise, and have good answers to their questions. They will be trying to salvage you as a Scientologist. If you have other religious beliefs now, and no longer wish to go the SCientology religious path, then say so, politely, as your reason for wishing a return of you unused donated advanced payments for Scientology services which you have now decided you do not wish to do, because those services are not your now chosen path of religion. YOu have the UN Human Right to change your religion, and just keep it that simple. YOu just have chosen your new religious path in life, period. don’t get into any problems you had with Scientology, or if you do, keep it simple and uncomplicated, and focus on your new religious path you wish to pursue in life.

            I urge people who really really wish to smoothly get their money back, the point of having your new religion in mind as what you really wish to do for your religious activity in life, and ask that they respect your right to change your religion, that gets them kind of having to abide by the UN Human Rights, which they do promote, and it is a way to legitimately move on from Scientology, politely, and get your unused donations back.

            I’ve been told, unfortunatey, that all Refund Repayments are being kiboshed at present, but they have their fads, so there’s no hurt trying, just be polite and don’t do and don’t admit to SP acts. Change of religion is the easiest and smoothest path, use your UN Human Rights which say you have the right to change your religion.

            • Mary Smith

              thanks, it is at Flag so I will try this.

            • chuckbeattyxquackologist75to03

              Try the polite route and hopefully they don’t deny you or the person needing the donations repayment the right to get a routing form and do the steps. Long term Flag public have to really mind their Ps and Qs, since Flag’s accumulated unused Advanced Payment donations total is massive, I heard from Amy Scobee that the total was considerably over 100 million bucks. Flag per Hubbard’s rules, was in serious financial liability due to that massive undelivered amount of advanced donations. The Garcias got the runaround as part of the decision to stop Flag’s massive unused payment’s repayment.

              In otherwords don’t be surprised if you get all kinds of ethics heat from Flag Masters at Arms coming at you for even asking for the Refund/Repayment Routing Form.

              They will be trying to establish your committing SP acts for which they will declare you, and deny you the right to do the routing form similar to the Garcias.

              What I’d advise is patience, and definitely don’t do SP acts for which they can do the Garcias runaround on you. That WILL BE Flag’s modus operendi for a while.

              Patience. (We have eternity, joke.)

        • mockingbird

          I was joking. The three individuals I selected were chosen to terrify Miscavige.

    • Well, that was exactly what the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology was criminally sued for in France. And they were found guilty.

  • mockingbird

    Regarding Sump and the toxic sludge they will pump out I am very optimistic. Swing how Twitter is treating United Airlines and Sean Spicer has given me new hope and now I am eager to see what the future holds

  • Not a tax attorney, but how does “religion” that has copyrights and trademarks on its “tech” even fits definition of religion? Religious technology, heh. It might backfire some day. On top of it being a plain fraud.

    • Jimmy3

      I’LL SUE YOU IN ENGLAND

  • iampissed

    I was just watching posts on YouTube about Williams syndrome, I live close to the shooting.
    It affects you.
    ETA: my mom was a teacher….I bet the teacher in the classroom was protecting here students.
    It’s what they do.

    • Missionary Kid

      How is Williams syndrome connected to the shooting? The child, Jonathan Martinez, killed at North Park Elementary had it.

      • iampissed

        My mom was also a special ED Teacher. At an early age I came to appreciate these folks.
        Sorry just makes me sad……….

    • Missionary Kid

      Never mind. I found it. The boy killed had Williams syndrome.

  • Mary Smith

    I received an invitation from AOLA for a “dissemination” field briefing in LA on April 15. I hope someone else can attend. Guest speaker from management and OSA International.

    • Missionary Kid

      What, you don’t want to get regged?

      • Mary Smith

        No, but I would love to be one of the lucky 500 to be on the list though.

      • Taffy Sinclair

        Scientology Cat is a pro at regging

    • grundoon

      Orientation for potential arbitrators?

      • Mary Smith

        That is what I was wondering. I suppose anyone can go but you have to call in first to rsvp. I would go but I will be out of town.

        • Mary Smith

          Lebonan Hall 11am brunch 12 briefing April 15 323 953 3200

          • TexasBroad

            Mike Rinder’s blog earlier today was about an April 15 super secret briefing in Michigan, also with speakers arriving from Management. Looking forward to the post-briefings from Tony’s tipsters.
            http://www.mikerindersblog.org/more-ideal-org-absurdity/

            • Mary Smith

              Maybe something different then unless they are trying to recruit MI people for LA. If so they are really short of coming up with 500 people πŸ™‚

            • Robert Eckert

              In Michigan they are going to make the Battle Creek Org “Ideal”. Yeah, right.

            • ombrifuge

              “Respond to this email or give me a call. Even if you don’t think you can make it, we’d still like to hear from you. (269) 965-5203.”

              Or in other words – “even if you can’t make it, we still want your money”.

    • iampissed

      I’ll take the stress test, if that’s what it takes.

    • iampissed

      Is It transferable.

  • TexasBroad

    2018 HowdyCon – St. Louis – just throwing that out there as a suggestion to the powers that be.

    • Jimmy3

      Hosted by flyonthewall. I would go to that horror movie.

      • Back off Cleveland. You already had your glory.

        • Jimmy3

          That vote was rigged. We should have a real vote so Cleveland can win legit.

          • TexasBroad

            I don’t think we should mess with the magic that was Cleveland 2016. πŸ™‚

            • Jimmy3

              St. Louis would be fun, but it’s probably going to be Boston next year. That’s the way it seems to be swirling.

          • Missionary Kid

            Can you guarantee another round of Cavs championship madness?

            • Jimmy3

              They’re not playing well right now. In fact, they’re sucking so horribly that people are actually speculating that they’re tanking on purpose. Heh.

    • Taffy Sinclair

      How ’bout Roanoke, VA? How bow dat? Cash me ouh-side, yo.

      • Newiga

        AHS fan?

  • Newiga

    *peeks in and sees most people are asleep or occupied. Eats J3’s ice cream*

    Sorry for the O/T post but just wanted to say good morning. Good morning, Bunker!

    • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

      Good morning, Newiga! Share some of that ice-cream, will ya. I’ll put the coffee on πŸ™‚

      • Newiga

        Of course! *passes ice cream* Coffee would be nice! πŸ™‚ HΓ€lsingar frΓ₯n solig Helsingfors!

        • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

          Do you have Easter vacay, or are you at work today?

          • Newiga

            At work. I have Friday and Monday off. πŸ™‚

    • Taffy Sinclair

      I’m awake. Packing for my kick-ass spring break!!! Hi Johnny!!

      • Newiga

        Kick-ass spring break sounds awesome! Somewhere warm?

        • Taffy Sinclair

          Vegas, baby!!!

          • Newiga

            Niiiiiiiiiiiiiice!

            • Taffy Sinclair

              I hope to see the Idle morg when there, but I’m an SP…. πŸ™

              On another note, Grossa ELFman is on tv rite now yakkin’ ’bout imaginary mary. So unattractive.

            • Missionary Kid

              Unless they recognize you, you can pretty much play dumb and get a lot of information at an ideal morgue. If you’ve actually been declared as an SP, just be careful. Notice how many people are there. I would suggest you don’t park in their lot. If they figure out who you are, they can claim that you are trespassing & call the police. (That happened to some declared SP’s that parked in the lot. The police let them go after the $cientologists made a claim that they’d struck another car, and it was obvious they hadn’t). They can also figure out who you are from your license plate, so even if you’re a wog, they don’t need the information.

              If you’re not an ex, go on in and play dumb. Take the tour and ask questions. Have a shore story ready with a fake name, address, and phone number so you don’t end up on their eternal mailing list. See how many people come and go. If there’s a bar close by, tell them that your friends are waiting for you so you can bail. Whatever you do, don’t act knowledgeable.

            • Taffy Sinclair

              No car! But morbid curiousity always wins!! Not an ex, just a hater… lol
              I hope to visit whist there!!!

            • Missionary Kid

              They usually are so glad to have someone walk in that they will give you their full attention. Every one I’ve been to is DEAD. They will sometimes claim that there are all sorts of people upstairs taking courses. Go ahead and ask how many.

              You’re not going to convince them of anything, so I wouldn’t try, but you can ask questions. Use things that they say to ask further questions. You can use their statements against themselves, but do it in a kindly way. I never admit or show that I have any additional knowledge about $cientology.

              I was in one org and watched their intro video,(The one about Affinity, Reality, etc.) then their anti-drug video, which is really the sauna/cal-mag video, and that’s all I could take. I got pissed at that point and said that it was obvious that whoever came up with the drug residue theory knew nothing about organic chemistry, and ignored modern research. (While I worked in alcoholism for a while, I got an education on drugs, and I’ve had some organic chemistry and a lot of inorganic).

              In all of their videos, the jumps in logic, and false assumptions are glaring. Of course, since I’m a wog, I’m sure that nothing I could say would mak e a difference.

              My opinion is to have a story that you got a ride with someone or you’re giving them a ride and you’re waiting for them. Tell them that you expect them to be done in, say, half an hour.

      • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

        Hi, Taffy! You’re up early, or late… Have a great trip to Sin City!

        • Taffy Sinclair

          I’m gonna drink til I puke, and gamble til’ I’m broke!!! It’s a family trip!!

          • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

            That was my strategy when I was there as well. Oh, and my last goal was to marry a prostitute as well. I am not that goal driven, so nothing became of my plan. I left there unmarried, with money, and only slightly hung over – but I was there for just one night. Stayed at the Paris Hotel.

            • Taffy Sinclair

              I’ll bet you could marry ANY hooker you want!! You’re a catch, John-John!!

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              Aw, shucks *blushes* You are a good motivator, Taffy. I will keep you kind words with me always.

            • Taffy Sinclair

              Abs-sa-fuckin-lutely!!!

              BTW, whats forever autumn mean?

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              Forever Autumn is a song from Jeff Wayne’s masterpiece, the musical version of ‘War Of The Worlds’.

            • Taffy Sinclair

              im on da plane!!! Da plane! (Fantasy island reference) But I am on da plane for realz. Leaving on time! This airline Is def upstate and in-ethics!!

            • I always wanted to hire a prostitute or stripper as a date to the office Christmas party and watch the reactions.

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              You have the best ideas πŸ˜€

            • And some of them I didn’t even steal.

  • MostEthicalPimp
  • Death stinks.
    RIP J. Geils.

    • John Prince

      Long live Raputta the Beautta ✌..my blood runs cold, my memory has just been Sold. .

      • I still have “Bloodshot” in clear red vinyl.

        • John Prince

          You shame me 😒. .I haven’t a single recording from the J.Geils Band and I’m from the Boston Area. They were one of Our favorite Boston Bands back in the 70’s. .Freeze Frame Tour live at old Boston Garden, Best of Times for me & my Gang..

          • I must say that although I’m not a big fan of guilt and shame as emotions, you sir, should be ashamed of yourself.

  • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

    Hey folks, Bunker night owl here dropping by to share a link to an Reddit AMA Jenna Elfman did on Tuesday for her new show. Doesn’t look like it was resounding success, but I’m having trouble viewing it all on my phone. Looks like she didn’t stay long and most questions that got answered were softballs from newly created accounts. Also, her new show is not getting good reviews, with some critics wondering about her creative choices and narrow range, surprise surprise. Jenna, those aren’t good stats, doll!

    https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/64s555/im_actress_jenna_elfman_from_the_new_abc_comedy/?sort=top

    ETA: Oh man, the Redditors weren’t lying. That was terrible. And you can’t even read some of the questions she answered b/c the accounts that asked them have already been deleted. Not that she answered many questions, period. The Redditors had some fun afterwards amusing themselves with questions she’ll never see. This one made me snortle:

    “On a scale from 1 to Tom Cruise, how much do you hate me taking antipsychotics?”

    Anyway, who thought letting a scientologist wade into an open internet forum was a good idea? Oh, scientology…you were not made for the digital age.

    • JaxNGold

      That question…hysterical!

    • TheMirrorThetan

      “How many people did your cult pay to start new reddit accounts in order to post questions on this thread that you wanted to answer? And how stupid do you think we are?”

      “Why are you letting your handlers choose which questions you answer? Isn’t Scientology supposed to give you the ability to confront these types of things?”

      “When you are on vacation do you visit volcanoes or are you too scared to be close to the thetans?”

      “Jenna, why did all the new accounts leave at the same time you did? Are y’all having a fire drill
      on the boat?”

      “Do you think $50 or less a week enough money to buy food and other needed items is enough? What do you think about Sea Org members asking for donations to buy food because they do not get paid enough to live on?”

      “I can’t get my thetans as white as I want them, am I using the wrong bleach?”

      “What is your least favorite airline and why is it United?”

      Yeah that didn’t go too well. LOL. Love the last question.

      • dreamcatcher

        “Hi Jenna, Did you know that you can make an E-Meter out of two Coke cans and a dog turd?”

        πŸ˜€

        • jmsr

          > two Coke cans and a dog turd

          Hey now, be fair. That’s not an e-meter, it’s just some wires and a piece of shit. What you got there is an ‘L.Ron Hubbard.’

      • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

        Right? That AMA is why I love the internet.

  • Juicer77

    Welcome, newbies and lurkers and under-the-radars. Today is a new day. You got this. f5 https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/eb68b6ec3765e70b7b1a6614ca8e17994333231254133affb9908cc53e2da77a.jpg

  • John Prince

    Well isn’t this an interesting tidbit! A Judge is finally fed up with the clampire’s bullshit and is calling them out on it. .How Do ya like that shit? If only MORE Judges would show cob just which way the Wind blows and exercise their Authority, not allowing co$ to abuse and make a mockery of the U.S. Legal System !@#$

  • Newiga

    I was browsing through the Bunker jukebox… f5

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_aYibUx1B8

  • Bert Allen

    I missed this post yesterday morning. I nearly cheered in the restaurant when I read it the headline that evening while waiting for my food. After reading the entire article and the Order I find the Judge’s action to be an inept step in the right direction. I’m going to read the comments now, and if I find they don’t convey why I believe the Order was inept then I will comment further.

    • Juicer77

      Sort by best. TXLawyer and t1kk weighed in. Sure to be near the top.

  • TheKremlinCandidate

    I don’t know if this a good thing or a bad thing… all I can tell is that it is a thing that has forward motion at least. Will be interesting to see where it goes.

  • Still_On_Your_Side

    Assuming that Miscavige actually produces a list of 500 random scientologists in good standing, imagine how schocked the Judge’s clerk is going to be when he/she calls dozens of people who claim they are not aware of the case and they can not read the briefs because their religion does not allow it.

  • jmsr

    I expect the church’s next move will be to admit that they really are lying about the arbitration process and that’s ok because truth in advertising laws do not exist for / do not apply to religions.

    • Juicer77

      Interesting point, but they don’t need to. The court already found that even if no such arbitration system exists, the legal system cannot interfere in a religion’s practices. What would admitting this do for them?

      • jmsr

        Really? If that’s so, then why haven’t they just said that “asking for a refund makes you a supressive person and the arbitration process isn’t for supressive persons therefore no refund?” If that really is part of their religious practices…

        There has to be something else going on here. Maybe they’re just trying to waste the plaintiff’s time with a court battle?

        • Juicer77

          Of course they are trying to waste time. And take advantage of the legal system by being a business OR religion whenever it’s convenient.

  • Jgg2012

    The only thing better than this order would be if (a) the judge gave them 15 days to produce a perfect clear, or (b) if he demanded to know where Shelly was. Maybe some judge will do this down the road.

  • Does LA even have 500 Scientologists anymore? I suppose if you consider that the majority will be SO members.

  • Jgg2012

    Davey, you have one week left.