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‘Going Clear’: Marty Rathbun on what he was thinking during his key moment in Gibney’s film

Marty_Rathbun_GC2

Just four days to go now before the airing of Alex Gibney’s documentary about Scientology, Going Clear, on HBO Sunday night at 8 pm. We have another screenshot from the movie for you, featuring former top Scientology executive Mark “Marty” Rathbun.

We noticed that some press stories about Going Clear criticized Gibney for not explaining that Rathbun was still a Scientologist and audited other people who had left the church. Manohla Dargis of the New York Times was one notable example.

But there’s a good reason why Gibney didn’t refer to that in the film, and that’s because it’s simply not true.

Rathbun was the second-highest ranking official in Scientology, the right hand man to leader David Miscavige. But he defected in 2004, went underground, and then resurfaced with a blog in 2009 that was highly critical of Miscavige. At that time, he wrote at length about “saving” Scientology from its “corporate” version, and he offered to audit people who had left the church without leaving their affinity for L. Ron Hubbard and his ideas.

But if you’ve paid attention to Rathbun’s blog in more recent years, you know that something really interesting happened there. Over time, as Rathbun tried to separate out what was “good” in Scientology from what was “bad” (and associated with David Miscavige), he found it more and more difficult to do.

Increasingly, he criticized L. Ron Hubbard for putting into place the toxic policies that make Scientology problematic today — and he got an earful from commenters who didn’t want to see Hubbard criticized. Some of them became so incensed at the direction Rathbun was going in, they formed their own organization for those who still think Hubbard was essentially infallible.

Rathbun, meanwhile, continued to explore other philosophical traditions and recommended non-Scientology reading for the community at his blog. You could see him becoming open to the idea that Hubbard may not have been the greatest thinker who ever lived, and that the science fiction writer actually paled alongside other intellectual traditions.

Then came a couple of big moments at the Rathbun blog. In December 2013 he announced that he was still offering courses, but they were instruction in how to leave Scientology entirely behind. We were pretty stunned when we saw that, and we figured it marked a milestone. Rathbun was far, far away from where he had been in 2009 when he started his blog. And then, more recently, another stunning post: Rathbun laid out the beliefs of Scientology, and it was brutal. Rathbun didn’t appear to see any real value in Scientology at all, at least not that hadn’t been imported from somewhere else.

Still, we were fairly stunned at what we think is one of the two or three most remarkable moments in Going Clear, when Rathbun is asked to sum up the entire experience — was he regretful? If you haven’t seen the movie, we won’t spoil his answer for you, we’ll just say it was preceded by a loooong pause, indicating, we felt, how significant it meant to Rathbun.

This week, as we were preparing for this countdown, we thought we’d ask Rathbun about that moment. We told him we thought it was one of the most emotional moments in the movie, and we had to ask — what was he thinking?

Rathbun said he wanted to put his utterance in a larger context.

“Tony, I have to explain something. I never was practicing Scientology outside of the church. I used to do ‘repairs’ on people, but in retrospect, I came to realize that what I was doing outside the church was never really Scientology,” he told us.

“In the movie, Jason Beghe calls me the ‘Michael Jordan and Wayne Gretzky’ of auditing. But what I was doing in Ingleside wasn’t Scientology. It was just the ability to instill confidence in somebody, and when you come down to something that generic, that’s not Scientology, that’s just something Hubbard ripped off from someone else.”

Whoa. We wanted to make sure we were getting this right.

“What I was actually doing was asking people to tell me how Scientology had harmed them, and then they had the freedom to talk about things they had always been afraid to say while they were in the church. I’d ask that question and just listen to them for hours and acknowledge what Scientology had done to mess them up,” he added. “And the funny thing is, Scientology has been in court saying that they surveilled me because I was using their technology. Actually, I was helping people get away from it.”

Rathbun confirmed that over time, at his blog, he’d taken apart Scientology until there was nothing left. “When I deconstructed and stripped it down, I realized that it wasn’t Scientology that ever made anyone feel that I was doing them any good,” he said. “When Alex asked me that question in the movie, I thought, it’s the whole thing, I had come full circle to say that anything of use during my Scientology experience wasn’t original, and I probably would have found it elsewhere.”

We asked him what he thought of the movie. “I did a two- or three-hour interview, which was no big deal. But the way Alex put it all together, he did a great job, and he made it with emotional impact. It does a great public service, because it will put people on notice about the end product. It will make it hard for Scientology to recruit new people.”

 
——————–

Mike Rinder on the hypocrisy of disconnection and celebrities

Over at his blog this morning, Mike Rinder has a great post about how celebrities get treated differently when it comes to Scientology’s strict rules about “disconnection” which rip families apart. He has an interesting photograph showing Jennifer Lopez and Leah Remini, and in the background J-Lo’s father, a longtime Scientologist.

What is he doing around an SP like Leah? And if Jennifer can keep her friends and family intact while hanging out with an outspoken former member, why can’t Sara Goldberg, for example, see both her son and her daughter?

It’s a great example of how Scientology’s toxic policies get applied differently for the rich and famous.

 
——————–

Your proprietor on WFMU

We jumped at the chance to be on WFMU out of Jersey City, which has had us on in the past for good shows. In this case, we were on the Aerial View show with Chris T last night, and he was well prepared. Here are a couple of links to the show. (Fun music takes up the first five minutes.)

 
——————–

Bonus photos from our tipsters

Caption for this image at Scientology Argentina: “Monday at midnight , we have a date … Tuesday starts with great Theta!” Scientology TV? Hey, Buenos Aires folks, let us know what’s going on…

 
SciArgentina

 
Scientologists are using social media more than ever. Drop us a line if you spot them posting images to Instagram or Facebook!

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on March 25, 2015 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of LA attorney and former church member Vance Woodward

UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists

GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice

SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer
The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill
The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

 

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  • PRenaud

    oh man oh man the internet media is on fire for Going Clear, these fruitcakes are cookin… oooh I’m all excited

    • Mymy88

      Meeeeee too!

  • Todd Tomorrow
    • outraged

      Yes!!
      The truth will out.

    • scottmercer

      We knew that already, didn’t we?

  • 0tessa

    Scientology: much ado about nothing.

    • Missionary Kid

      Much ado about a red-haired psychopath’s dreams of power.

      • Vaquera

        On a side note: Did you stop adding names/phrases to your lists? I haven’t seen mention of them in quite some time.

        • Missionary Kid

          I’m collecting them, but with my computer blowing up, file recovery has been a pain, so I haven’t been doing notifications. I’m sure that I have a couple of yours.

          I haven’t posted new ones since the beginning of February.

          • Vaquera

            I doubt I said anything worth listing; just noticed the absence. Thx for the 411.

  • Michael Leonard Tilse

    It has never made sense to me that the threat of “2500 lawsuits” supposedly draining the resources of the IRS made the IRS cut the deal to grant Scientology the 501(c)(3) status and cancel their Scientology tax bill.

    Some background.

    In the late 80’s my wife and I were audited by the IRS and two years of our “donations” to Scientology were disallowed as deductions. We were going to have to pay. We refused to pay, starting the process of being taken to court by the IRS.

    Jim Jackson of Greenberg and Jackson was our tax adviser in dealing with the IRS. We consulted with him, but we also knew he had a direct line into OSA and the Office of Special Affairs of the Church of Scientology was aware of our case with the IRS and the legal actions regarding our case. We were probably one of the “2500 lawsuits.”

    Other lawsuits were working their way through the court system. One of these was “Hernandez v Commissioner”, a lawsuit (as I understand it) over the same kind of denial of deductions for payments to Scientology.

    The IRS asked us if we wished that the outcome of our case over deductions for Scientology payments be “bound” to the outcome of “Hernandez.” Sarah and I didn’t know if we should do this or not. We requested from OSA some guidance as to agreeing to this or continuing with our separate case. Ultimately, OSA told us that we should go ahead and agree that our case be bound to the outcome of Hernandez.

    That outcome was that Scientology LOST Hernandez v Commissioner at the appellate level and that decision was allowed to to stand by the US Supreme Court. The decision was that Scientology payments were NOT tax deductible. Scientology members could not claim deduction for payments paid to Scientology.

    This decision resulted in my wife and I paying over $11,000 in taxes and penalties for just two years of disallowed tax deductions.

    So, what were the “2500” lawsuits? Were they varied and regarding different issues, or were they almost all similar to the deduction lawsuit of Hernandez v Commissioner? I think most of them were, but I would like to know if they were not similar or virtually identical.

    My point is this: If they were substantially similar, then the decision in Hernandez made the outcome of them a forgone conclusion. Could not have the IRS used their victory in Hernandez as a tool that made the majority of these other lawsuits go away as being doomed to failure?

    That would make the threat of “2500 lawsuits” draining the resources of the IRS a fiction. Additionally, having won all the way to the Supreme Court a final decision against Scientology, why would the IRS agree to the “Closing Agreement” that granted Scientology tax exemption just a few years later? They had WON! Why throw that away?

    I think the “2500 lawsuits made the IRS capitulate” is a “Shore Story.” A “Shore Story” is something Scientology tells you when they want to hide what really happened. It is invented as what Hubbard called an “acceptable truth” that is told, instead of the actual truth. It stops thought. It stops further questions. It, essentially is a lie that is convincing enough to stop investigation or inquiry.

    For some reason, for over two decades, this shore story has been bought by many journalists.

    But the actual “Closing agreement” between the IRS and Scientology is still sealed. Seemingly, it cannot be investigated, cannot be examined by the public or even congress. The IRS and other government agencies such as the FBI seem powerless to do anything about the abuses of Scientology.

    It is like there is some hidden power Scientology holds over the Federal Government that has blocked investigation or prosecution for over two decades. And I don’t buy that the “Threat of 2500 lawsuits” against the IRS in the late 80’s and early 90’s ever had the leverage to convince not only the IRS but every other agency to back off. I think there had to be something far more damaging held by Scientology that forced and continues to force the Federal Government into “Hands off.”

    With regard to the criminal abuses of other Religious organizations, the FBI and other Law Enforcement Agencies seem to have little restraint in prosecuting. Why is Scientology so obviously absent from this? There is no shortage of stories. There is no shortage of testimony in court.

    The admission in court of documents that show former Scientology Flag Commanding Officer Debbie Cook claiming she was “Part of the biggest cover-up in Scientology history” seems to have been ignored by nearly everyone. Why?

    There is something going on that cannot be explained by “1st amendment protections” following the IRS agreement.

    • Tony Ortega

      Scientology never put out a “shore story” about lawsuits, Michael. They in fact deny at all that they put pressure on Scientology.

      Journalists at the Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, New York Times, and Lawrence Wright and myself all documented how individual IRS officials were harassed by PIs, sued by individual Scientologists, surveilled around the clock for years in an all-out attack by Scientology.

      In the meantime, the courts totally backed up the IRS all the way. So when the IRS finally caved from the pressure, it was simply because they could no longer take the constant harassment. The courts had just, in fact, handed the IRS a huge victory.

      I’ve talked to a former IRS commissioner, who told me about the constant harassment. But he didn’t cave. His successor did. Your conspiracy theories really aren’t needed to explain what happened.

      • Michael Leonard Tilse

        So, I am mistaken then? I take your point but it still does not make sense to me.

        Harassment, coordinated suits by individual Scientologists, surveillance around the clock for years, all-out attack by Scientology are not a theory. It happened. It’s a conspiracy FACT.

        Are not those crimes?

        So, why no Federal prosecution for what seem to be obvious criminal actions by Scientology that resulted in the Commissioner caving? Isn’t that a question that should be asked?

        I think I am raising a legitimate point here.

        • Kim O’Brien

          glad you had to pay . Roads don’t pave themselves

          • Michael Leonard Tilse

            In retrospect, I am glad I did too. I think that the IRS agreement with Scientology enabled and contributed to Scientology’s ability to further damage my mind and health in subquent years.

        • Tony Ortega

          Wait, you’re giving me whiplash. You said earlier that you didn’t believe the lawsuits had any effect. Now you’re saying they did, combined with the harassment, which was my point.

          OK, so now you agree that it wasn’t a shore story, the coordinated suits and harassment did happen and made the IRS cave. So now your question is, why doesn’t the government do something about it.

          Yeah, sure. Start arresting people. Go ahead. But you have to understand, an agency that’s going to do that has to go all in. And as Mike Rinder has pointed out, if you’re leading an agency and you’re deciding, hey, I’m going to do something about Scientology and its abuses, you pretty much have to decide that that’s all you’re going to be doing for the rest of your career.

          Why does Scientology get away with shit? Because stopping them takes a lot of hard work and political will. And various elements work against that. The celebrity bullshit. The actual small size of Scientology. And the lack of votes that you’d get for taking them down.

          Try to get real about how government agencies work before you start throwing around conspiracies about Scientology having some special power over them.

          • Jgg2012

            The IRS doesn’t have enough lawyers to defend 2500 lawsuits.

            • Ben Franklin

              If they don’t they have enough lawyers to defend 2500 lawsuits, they should because considering the population of all tax payers in United states 2500 is small number.

            • Jgg2012

              They could have hired an outside firm to answer all the complaints, consolidate the cases, and so on, and come out ahead eventually. I agree that they caved to an extent, i.e. they could have done more, but then they would have to locate Scientology’s assets. Today, that’s less of a problem–they own $1billion of property in LA County, Riverside County, and Clearwater.

          • Michael Leonard Tilse

            I believe that the lawsuits had some power before Scientology lost Hernandez. After Hernandez was decided, that power should have been gone. You said it was combined and I was paraphrasing you.

            IIRC Rathbun has said the lawsuits were the big deal in the IRS agreement. From my experience in being briefed by OSA and IAS registrars, Scientology itself floated the shore story to US that the lawsuits were tying up so many IRS resources that they capitulated.

            I do understand that there are constraints on agencies. And I agree with what you say.

            BTW: In your first reply I don’t understand your second sentence: “They in fact deny at all that they put pressure on Scientology.”

            • Tony Ortega

              I will say again, Michael. The courts had backed up the IRS all the way for decades, including the Hernandez decision. The IRS did not have to give Scientology tax exemption.

              The lawsuits we’re talking about included suits by individual Scientologists against individual IRS employees — they were nuisance lawsuits, nothing more, and they had nothing to do with Hernandez or any other decision. They were PART of the harassment. I don’t know how to make this more clear for you.

              I misstyped that one statement. I meant that Scientology denies that it put any pressure on the IRS of any kind. The “shore story” the church actually put out was that the IRS gave them tax exemption simply because they filled out the proper paperwork. It’s bullshit.

            • Robert Eckert

              What type of lawsuits were these? Like Michael I was under the impression it was thousands of Scientologists all making the same basic, bogus “we should be entitled to deduct these oh-so-religious donations!” arguments.

            • noseinabk

              http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/nytimes/nyt-irs-030997.htm

              The full story of the turnabout by the IRS has remained hidden behind taxpayer privacy laws for nearly four years. But an examination by The New York Times found that the exemption followed a series of unusual internal IRS actions that came after an extraordinary campaign orchestrated by Scientology against the agency and people who work there. Among the findings of the review by The New York Times, based on more than 30 interviews and thousands of pages of public and internal church records, were these:

              Scientology’s lawyers hired private investigators to dig into the private lives of IRS officials and to conduct surveillance operations to uncover potential vulnerabilities, according to interviews and documents. One investigator said he had interviewed tenants in buildings owned by three IRS officials, looking for housing code violations. He also said he had taken documents from an IRS conference and sent them to church officials and created a phony news bureau in Washington to gather information on church critics. The church also financed an organization of IRS whistle-blowers that attacked the agency publicly.

              The decision to negotiate with the church came after Fred T. Goldberg Jr., the commissioner of the Internal Revenue Service at the time, had an unusual meeting with Miscavige in 1991. Scientology’s own version of what occurred offers a remarkable account of how the church leader walked into IRS headquarters without an appointment and got in to see Goldberg, the nation’s top tax official. Miscavige offered to call a halt to Scientology’s suits against the IRS in exchange for tax exemptions.

            • ze moo

              i have no doubt that Miscavage and the minions used every trick in any book to get tax exemption. But settling for 12 million while a billion dollars was at stake seems very cheap to me. With Lroon’s death, his inurement ended. That was one of the largest barriers to tax exemption.

              All the rest was about corporate structure and refunds. Something the clampire needs to answer for. The personal harassment of IRS officials created a ‘get them off my back’ mentality among the IRS.

              Yeah, they caved. But caved in a truly bureaucratic manner. I do have to wonder if they caught Bill Clinton in something. Or perhaps some senators, who knows? If there are any secrets to that, those who ran the ‘process’ haven’t talked.

              Meanwhile, back on the farm, the corporate structure still hides real control and responsibility and refunds don’t happen. Exam that IRS.

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              Thank you. I agree that the IRS did not have to give Scientology tax exemption. Given their history of success against Scientology, they should not have given it.

              That was part of my question, were all the lawsuits about donations, or were there others? Thanks for clarifying that for me. Since reading THDNE’s comment, I remembered seeing that solicitation from Scientology seeking Scientologist’s to sue the IRS. Back then we were pretty gung-ho and even got briefed on CST. I was even told about the way Scientology moved money out of CS of C by buying the staff $2000 dollar lifetime IAS memberships.

              It is much clearer to me now, thank you. I still do not believe harassment, even on the scale that was visibly occurring, really explains why it happened. If that makes me a conspiracy theorist, then so be it. Having been a Scientologist I know that if there was ANY possibility of Scientology coming up with dirt on the IRS commissioner or public figures and agencies in the Federal Government, it would have been explored, dug up and used. Or manufactured with entrapment or other means. You know what they did to Paulette Cooper, the IRS was a far bigger fish to fry.

              Thanks for clarifying the typo. That’s what I thought you meant but I wasn’t sure.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Budget reasons, Michael. It all comes down to the money balance. They did not have the staff and staff hours it would have taken to deal with all these suits at once. They would have had to hire and train them. Then there’s the budget for legal – not there. Scientology has a looooong history, as you know, of manipulating the legal system to get their way. I do think it’s nuts that they can continue to withhold secrets under the “National security” protection blanket. I think the possibilities of you and me ever seeing what’s behind Door 3 is so remote, I can’t waste my energy on it. Maybe further down the road, maybe never.

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              I may never see the actual evidence of what happened in my lifetime. It will be a matter for historians.

              But the main reason I got out of Scientology was I kept asking my questions. And Scientology would not give me a straight answer. It was all shore stories and acceptable truths and I had spent enough time in the Sea Org and as a public to smell a lie when I was told one. When I finally went looking for myself, I was able to find enough real facts to KNOW Scientology was lying to me. And that ended it.

              The story that the IRS just rolled over because of the harassment that we know about, stinks.

            • chukicita

              Aside: Does anyone else find it weird that a nonprofit religion was soliciting its members to sue a government agency through a *mail campaign*? Doesn’t THAT violate IRS rules?

          • Free Minds, Free Hearts

            The IRS is still smarting from being criticized a couple of years ago for scrutinizing tax exempt applications from “tea party” type political groups – Republicans in Congress jumped on them and held hearings. (Though as I recall, it turned out that it wasn’t an IRS conspiracy – IRS scrutinized the left wing groups’ applications as well).

            Also, Congress constrained the IRS about auditing churches… http://www.irs.gov/Charities-&-Non-Profits/Churches-&-Religious-Organizations/Special-Rules-Limiting-IRS-Authority-to-Audit-a-Church: ” Special Rules Limiting IRS Authority to Audit a Church… Congress has imposed special limitations, found in section 7611 of the Internal Revenue Code, on how and when the IRS may conduct civil tax inquiries and examinations of churches. The IRS may begin a church tax inquiry only if an appropriate high-level Treasury official reasonably believes … that an organization claiming to be a church … may not qualify for exemption, may be carrying on an unrelated trade or business (within the meaning of IRC § 513), may otherwise be engaged in taxable activities or may have entered into an IRC § 4958 excess benefit transaction with a disqualified person.”

          • mockingbird

            Can I quote this and repost it !!! I love this !!! Very good answer for the never ins who say ” it camnot be anywhere near the horror show you describe – the US government would never allow it !”

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          I remember getting mail, even though I’d been off lines for years, soliciting any members to sue the IRS. I was stunned when I saw it. So it was broadly promoted. There’s usually at least 2000 gung ho fanatical scientologists who would have stepped up, especially for the whales – tax exemptions are very valued by them. I remember there were handy dandy forms included in this broad solicitation, and instructions of what dox you needed to attach. It was all specific and detailed. I was only shocked because this was broadly issued, not to specific individuals. If I was getting this in the mail, that means anywhere from 200,000 to 300,000 packets went out in total. All they needed was 2,000 to bite.

      • Jgg2012

        And it wasn’t really a total cave. First, Scientology (which had been paying nothing) coughed up several million (12 million, as I recall) as a one time payment. Second, they promised to give refunds and explained their corporate structure (stating that Narconon was part of the organization, controlled by RTC, which is synonymous with CSI–they have denied these facts in recent lawsuits). Third, the US govt. has no statute of limitations–the IRS can go after them next week for 20 years of unpaid taxes because they breached the agreement, if a widely watched documentary leads to pressure on the IRS to do so.

        • Tony Ortega

          12 million on a 1 billion tax bill?

          If that’s not a total cave, I don’t really know what one is.

          • Jgg2012

            Scientology didn’t have one billion then. It had 200 million, and presumably some of it was outside the US. Anyway, they do have around 2 billion today; if the IRS wants to argue that the 1993 agreement was fraudulently induced, and go after $988 million, with 22 years of interest (another 2 billion or so) they can wipe out the entire organization. Scientology is a much more lucrative target now than it was in 1993, so hopefully they will reconsider.

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              I think that might be wrong too.

              Since then I have heard that Hubbard’s estate by itself was worth something north of $600 million in 1986. Given that the whole situation was confused, I don’t know if that was value ascribed to the copyrights or cash. Probably both. There are people who claim that millions of dollars in cash was being forwarded to Hubbard weekly.

              And all but a few hundred thousand of it went into some Scientology black hole somewhere.

    • jane456

      By some estimates there are about 2000 to 4000 “abusive” groups in the US. Most of these I would describe as cults, or on the cult spectrum. It is rare for the government to go after them, even the smallest ones. There is a senator who has been going after some evangelicals for a few years and nothing much has come of it. Benny Hinn, The Crouches, Creflo, “God wants me to have a new $65 million dollar jet” Dollar These folks may not have the prison camps and child labor but they have tons of money and they don’t answer to anyone. If you want to make money start a religion as the old ass hat said. You could add that it is especially lucrative in the good old USA.

  • MaxSpaceman

    nice at Daily Beast report/story list

    • ScnMonkeyNuts

      Angelina Jolie has just gone up hugely in my estimation, we need more celebs like her (as opposed to vacuous publicity–whores, of which there are so many to choose from!) Good on her :)

      • April

        Angelina doesn’t play around. She was/is genetically at incredibly high risk of breast and ovarian cancer, so she had surgery to remove both breasts as well as ovaries/fallopian tubes as a preventative measure before ever developing cancer or even any detected pre-cancerous cells.

        • Elle

          Surgically induced menopause is bad, but the likelihood of cancer developing trumps it. Hopefully this will help other women to make educated decisions about their health. My hat is off….

          • chukicita

            Yes. Informed decisions are the best kind — and the kind no one ever gets to make in Scientology. Thanks to people like kemist and Jolie for working towards access to informed decisions.

            • Elle

              I’ll drink to that! (well, coffee right now 😉

        • kemist

          She is a BRCA mutation carrier. Knowing what I know about it, I’d have done the very same thing.

          BRCA carriers are at increased risk of early age tumors which grow at over twice the rate of normal ones, and have dismal 5 years survival rates.

          I am working on a simulation that will calculate the cost / benefit of testing and preventive intervention in high risk families. Since BRCA mutations are highly prevalent in the french canadian population, there is a chance a screening program will be offered in Quebec in the next few years.

    • Juicer77

      I’m glad she was very careful to explain why she chose to have both surgeries, and that her choice may not be right for every woman. She encouraged people to do the research, talk to multiple doctors and make the best decision for themselves.

  • nottrue

    1958 Astounding Science Fiction ad…

    • April

      “Saucer-Jockey.” That’s cheesy as hell even for the 1950’s.

      • Newiga

        I misread “Sausage-Jockey” at first. >_>

        • April

          An LRH Freudian slip? heheheh

    • Observer

      I’m disappointed that they didn’t ask if I’ve ever used a jim-dandy whizzer. :-(

      • flyonthewall

        well, have you?

        • Observer

          No. I just wanted to be asked. *tear*

      • One Human

        Ha ha!
        I mean, stop that! /s

    • flyonthewall

      if you told me that was a shoop I’d believe you and not just bc I’m gullible

  • http://www.culteducation.com Rick Alan Ross

    Interesting.

    But when will Marty Rathbun tell us something we don’t already know?

    What’s he not telling?

    So many secrets.

    • http://chaosmarxism.blogspot.com/ Doloras Funkette

      Have you considered that he may be holding certain things back as an “insurance policy”? Eg: “if anything happens to Monique or my child, THIS hits the media”?

      • http://www.culteducation.com Rick Alan Ross

        I don’t know.

        But I think he is holding back information.

        • chukicita

          I get you — but I don’t understand. Why would he prolong the harassment by not telling what he knows?

          • http://www.culteducation.com Rick Alan Ross

            Perhaps because he was involved in some pretty awful things.

            • chukicita

              Perhaps. I think he’s hoeing an extremely long row. Over the years since he’s left, information bubbles to the surface. Maybe someday he will be ready to open up.

              It doesn’t make sense that he would hold stuff back as an ‘insurance policy’ because he’s already up to his eyeballs in harassment with Mosey and their child. It does make sense that he doesn’t want to be held responsible for something that might take him away from them for an extended period, though.

            • http://www.culteducation.com Rick Alan Ross

              Marty Rathbun was at the top level of Scientology and had access to a great deal of information, meetings and planning.

              Perhaps the reasoning behind him withholding information and keeping secrets is because his involvement in Scientology’s past dirty business would be embarrassment and make him look bad.

              Mike Rinder came clean about one event recently. That is, how he went to CAA in an attempt to threaten and stop Viacom from running the South Park episode about Scientology.

              Rathbun doesn’t tell much about what dirty work he did at Scientology and/or had knowledge of during his days working closely with David Miscavige.

              For example, I would like to learn everything Rathbun knows about the planning and execution of Scientology’s war against the Cult Awareness Network..

              So far Rathbun has talked about bugging Nicole Kidman’s phone.

              Not much there other than sensational celebrity gossip.

              I would like to know more about the big stuff. What he did, what he watched and what documentation about dirty tricks he saw while he was there.

              Maybe I missed that, but I don’t recall Rathbun really saying that much about such areas of interest.

            • chukicita

              No, I don’t think you missed anything.

              I would also like to know what was going on behind the curtain during the hostile CAN takeover.

              I’ve also asked Marty and Mike – more than once- if they can shed any light on when I had to answer to baseless complaints at my workplace from Scientology attorneys that actually threatened my job (I was a single mom at the time); a nonexistent music gig that I was booked for; the PIs and garbage dives; the strange person who showed up at my son’s day care asking for him; and that time the axle fell off my car and my mechanic said it looked like it had been messed with. All of these things happened when I was actively speaking out and picketing. I was never in, and do not to my knowledge have “enemies” who would go to these extremes to hurt me.

              I want to know if there was some kind of formal or informal operation targeting me, if for no other reason than I can sort out the last 20 years of my life and know what to attribute to shenanigans and what was just…my woggy life.

              Neither has responded.

            • http://www.culteducation.com Rick Alan Ross

              I empathize with you. They should directly respond and answer your questions. And I think they know the answers to terrible things like that.

              As you may know I was harassed by Scientology for years through “noisy investigations.”

              Kendrick Moxon, Scientology attorney, litigated against and hounded me through the first half of the 1990s, which Tony Ortega wrote about in 1995. I was later harassed when I exposed the links between NYC detox clinics and Scientology.

              My “dead agent” file is more than 200 pages.

              CAN was sued more than 100 times by Scientology and Scientologists until it collapsed.

              CAN’s director Cynthia Kisser, who worked with Rich Behar on his famous Time Magazine article “Scientology: Cult of Greed” was stalked, slandered and harassed mercilessly by Scientology.

              All these things went on while Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder were in Scientology and quite active at the top level of the organization.

              I would like to know what they know about all of this, what they did, what they saw done, from the inside out concerning all these events.

              Rathbun and Rinder can be quite forthcoming about their own suffering through Scientology harassment, but what about all the people they apparently helped to harass for years? And in particular everything specifically associated with the war against CAN, its staff and volunteers.

              Scientology also often collaborated with outside groups called “cults” to target and harass its perceived enemies. What do Rathbun and Rinder know about that? For example, working with cult apologist academics during Waco or recruiting plaintiffs such as Jason Scott to sue CAN.

              And then there is the whole IRS issue. How did Rathbun help to intimidate IRS officials? What “dead agent” files did he see on IRS officials, agents, etc. What dirty tricks did he use or was he aware of that led to the IRS caving in and granting Scientology tax-exempt status?

              Do you recall Marty Rathbun talking in detail about that?

              It seems to me that Rinder and especially Rathbun are very selective about what secrets and information about Scientology’s dirty tricks they expose and talk about.

            • chukicita

              Pleased to meet you – finally. I’ve read about you for years.

              Of course my experience pales compared to what you have been through! I remember when the CAN stuff was going down, reading about it on a.r.s. – and what cojones for Scientology attorneys to purchase the organization’s assets after the lawsuit.

              No, I do not recall Marty talking in detail about the IRS, or corporate collaborations with other cults. Or the raids on Arnie, Bob and others. Or what happened with Keith Henson and Grady. Or anon.penet.fi. Or Lisa McPherson.

              In fact the only thing I do recall seeing is the below very vanilla reference out of a statement which I believe was made in 2009 during the Headley lawsuit. “Sufficient pressure was accomplished” is never explained.

              Can I ask you one thing – how do you know there are more than 200 pages in your dead-agent file? I’d like to know if I even have one. 😀

            • http://www.culteducation.com Rick Alan Ross

              I don’t know.

              Rinder has been declared and his family has already cut him off. So it would seem there is now no more leverage there.

              Rathbun is suing over harassment, but seems to be safe.

              My guess is that telling it all would make them look bad, especially Rathbun, so they pick and choose what they wish to disclose and discuss accordingly.

              I have not seen “Going Clear” yet, but I doubt from what I have heardso far, that it digs that deep. It’s more for a general audience of Scientology beginners than people like your or me who have been affected by or watching Scientology closely for years.

              I doubt that Gibney dug that deep with either Rinder or Rathbun in interviews.

              It will also be interesting to see how deep Gibney dug with Hana Whitfield. She was a professional deprogrammer for years and a very strong supporter of CAN. I wonder if “Going Clear” includes Hanna talking about her deprogramming days and how she deprogrammed Scientologists. That would be a potentially penetrating look into how Scientology programming really works.

              On Sunday I will be looking for some real meat and meaningful and specific new information rather than a rehash of old news reports and the selective memories former Scientology executives.

              I would like to know what really happened from Rathbun and Rinder on their watch.

              What they know, as you say, not only about Scientology’s dirty tricks regarding CAN and the IRS, but the targeting of people like Arnie, Dennis and others. And what really went on from the inside regarding Joan Wood (the coroner) and how they went after her after Lisa McPherson died.

              Of course talking frankly and in detail about what they did during all this would not make Rathbun and Rinder look good. In fact, they may have done some pretty terrible things. But maybe it’s time for them to come clean. If not through “Going Clear”–hopefully soon..

            • chukicita

              I agree.

              Thanks for remembering Joan Wood – she was the close colleague of a friend of mine, who I met well before Lisa died.

              There are so many more. Even for Marty and Mike to talk about just a few of them would be significant.

            • http://www.culteducation.com Rick Alan Ross

              They seem to be avoiding that.

              BTW (shameless plug) my book has a chapter about Scientology and the successful deprogramming of a 27-year member. The situations with Joan Wood and Lisa McPherson’s are discussed within the Scientology chapter.

              See http://www.amazon.com/Cults-Inside-Out-How-People/dp/149731660X

            • chukicita

              I look forward to reading it. Will order one shortly. Direct from Amazon is best?

            • http://www.culteducation.com Rick Alan Ross

              Thanks.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist
    • Juicer77

      I. LOVE. THIS. That is all :)

  • Alex De Valera

    Marty has gone a long way, he could have started some sort of mile stone 2 movement, but he kept searching for the truth. He made mistakes on his way perhaps, but I don’t care. When a man who told the FBI “you are not a match for these guys and allows his wife to go ahead and sue the cult of greed (sitting at least on billion dollars of cash), I just say thank you, you are a brave man and you are doing what many of us didn’t dare to do.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    Speaking of nuclear physicists:

    A short and succinct response to those who, like $cilon troll Waterhorse,
    maintain that Hubbard’s ravings are scientific –
    Hubbard’s arrogance and ignorance are neatly skewered.

    Particle physicist Brian Cox , professor at Manchester University’s Particle Physics Group and involved in research projects at Large Hadron Collider at Cern, Geneva:

    In response to the question:
    How do you feel about scientists who blog their research rather than waiting to publish their final results?

    replies:

    “The peer review process works and I’m an enormous supporter of it.
    If you try to circumvent the process, that’s a recipe for disaster.
    Often, it’s based on a suspicion of the scientific community and the scientific method.
    They often see themselves as the hero outside of science,
    cutting through the jungle of bureaucracy.
    That’s nonsense: science is a very open pursuit, but peer review is there
    to ensure some kind of minimal standard of professionalism.”

    TICK TOCK

    • Science Doc

      There is not a shard of science in anything related to Hubbard, Scientology and Dianetics. I almost never have to put on my science hat in any discussion of scientology because there is no science to discuss and no one rational who remotely thinks so. Being a physical scientist on this forum would be like being out of work without the J and D. Nothing to criticize because there is nothing there.

    • splog

      Brian Cox is awesome on TV. Like Richard Attenborough he knows his subject and loves explaining it in ordinary language to regular folks. Check out the BBC series “Human Universe” sometime if scince documentaries interest you.

    • Elle

      OT: Here is a really interesting recent article on CERN:
      “Scientists at Cern could prove the controversial theory of ‘rainbow gravity’ which suggests that the universe stretches back into time infinitely, with no Big Bang”
      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/large-hadron-collider/11489442/Big-Bang-theory-could-be-debunked-by-Large-Hadron-Collider.html

  • http://www.nathansmart.com/ Nathan Smart

    Hey Tony! It’s actually WFMU, not WMFU – and it’s a great station! Cool to hear you on there.

    • Tony Ortega

      It is a great station, and I sorry I messed that up. Fixed now.

      • Are_sics

        I think they called out the letters WMFU as well, among the sister stations. And it’s fine with me, but so long as we’re proofreading, there was what Iassume to have been an incompletely reworded phrase in today’s post where it now reads “…pause, indicating, we felt, how significant it meant to Rathbun.”

        Another great post today, in spite of my (with apologies) nitpick.

  • nottrue

    Good for her….Life after scientology…Her daughter was a big hit

  • RBE

    Last one, I promise…Xenu (refresh)

    • Super Power Wogsy

      Damn!! I knew Gibney looked familiar. Incident whatever…

    • mockingbird

      Gorgeous !!! I am so stealing this for posts !!!! Thank you !!!!

  • Todd Tomorrow
    • Tony Ortega

      We debuted this here last week. What’s the point of spamming the comments with this now.

      This is your second Cat Daddy warning. Getting tired of this.

      • Todd Tomorrow

        Sorry, I just got in my Gmail.

      • One Human

        Tony, so as not to find myself in a similar situation, can you explain spamming?

        • Missionary Kid

          Usually, spamming is email that is the electronic version of junk mail. It is unwanted and repetitive.

          In this case, it’s posting something over and over that’s already been covered.

          • One Human

            Much appreciated MK, I like to post vids and pix, but I don’t want to irritate the commenters or the proprietor, I enjoy being here too much

            • Missionary Kid

              While we all have our character here, the comments are getting so numerous that I try to stay on topic, or at least post something relevant. I don’t always succeed.

            • Ella Raitch

              Please note Once Human that Cat Daddy is a repeat offender – at his worst he has posted 10-20 videos one after the other , and continued to do so after politely being told by other commenters that enough is enough.

              Really doubtful that you would accidentally fall into behaviour that would offend in this manner – it really requires behavoiur that goes beyond any common sense

            • One Human

              Thank you for putting that into context for me Ella.

        • Sandy

          The reference to Cat Daddy is re: a poster who would post music videos all the time – even after Tony’s requests to stop. It’s about repeatedly posting off topic stuff.

        • Tony Ortega

          We have various threads going on here, some on topic, some not. But they are conversations. The Cat Daddy move is to interrupt that flow by posting, without any explanation, some old video that we’ve all seen a million times before. It stops the flow, and it’s tiresome.

          This was a classic example. We’d seen this video. Why was it posted? What was the explanation? What was the poster trying to say? Nothing. Just here you go. That’s pure spam, and it takes away from what this place can be.

          • One Human

            Right on Tony, thank you. I appreciate the thoughtfulness you put into making this place so remarkable.

        • Lurkness

          Special emphasis, please, on the nasty practice of simply posting links without any explanation as to what it is about and how it might be related.

          Disqus is hard enough to work with and you can waste a lot of time (the effect of the spamming) on links that are also a derail of the discussions.

  • sugarplumfairy

    I’m so happy to hear that about Marty.. I completely stopped going to his blog a couple years ago because when I was there, it felt like I had landed on Target 2, right in the middle of a We Love lrh rally.. It was very disturbing to me to hear so many people adoring that liver-lipped con man..

  • Vaquera

    Apologies if this article has already been posted down thread:

    HBO’s ‘Going Clear’ Is a Perfect Scientology Primer

    It would be difficult to overstate the number of batshit insane anecdotes that appear in Lawrence Wright’s 2013 book, Going Clear: Scientology, Hollywood and the Prison of Belief, or in the HBO documentary adaptation that premieres on March 29.

    http://www.newsweek.com/hbos-going-clear-perfect-scientology-primer-316567

    • ze moo

      Going Clear is getting wonderful reviews and pre showing advertisements everywhere. Cincinnati Ohio is now joining the wagon train.

      http://citybeat.com/cincinnati/article-32407-hbo_doc_shines_new_l.html

    • aurora50

      The link there to the story of LRH’s connection to the Explorer’s Club is kind of mesmerizing!

    • HillieOnTheBeach

      “Do you ever think that you might be quite mad?” a reporter asks Hubbard in 1968 footage shown in the documentary, one of the few times he ever appeared on camera. “Oh yes,” Hubbard answers without hesitation. “The one man in the world who never believes he’s mad is a madman.”

      This excerpt always makes me cringe. Hubbard tries to give himself an air of bonhomie, but what actually comes across is something sinister and feigned.

      • Phil McKraken

        … and nonensical

  • aurora50

    Marty’s blog today has a wonderful radio interview with him on a Sirius show, Morning Jolt. If you scroll down into the comments, there is a direct link…the interviewer is very good…well informed and asks questions that elicit very open and honest replies from Marty.
    https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2015/03/25/the-active-ingredient-in-scientology/#comments

  • MaxSpaceman

    For all Lurkers and Under the Radars (UTRs), if you don’t have this, grab it — and read about the degraded, demented leader of Sciloonacy circa the late 1970s. L Ron Hubbard, Sr., Over the Rainbow, at his spread in La Quinta. Served by Messengers. Testimonial from Cowboy, a teenager who was with El Ron El Rey 7/365.

    Eller Aitche’s behavior was putrid. A cancerous tumor on humanity was the man known as “Source.” A must read. 90 pages approx. http://www.mediafire.com/view/5itq92e61lec8i3/cowboy_threads.pdf

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      This is a Must for any Scientology Library! I am such a fan of Cowboy’s writing style, his own character, and his experiences with Hubbard are genuine and he takes you through the experience in such an intriguing way.

    • One Human

      Fantastic. Downloadable too.
      Thank you Max.

    • outraged

      Everything Hubbard was aware of for many years was heavily censored. One
      couldn’t give him bad news, or complete news. He made erroneous judgments
      based upon this

      The is the SAME reason there are so many still left behind, still stuck, still in denial.
      If you are were born into a world without sunshine, how would you ever believe in the healing powers of the sun?

    • outraged

      This article is absolutely amazing. Who is Cowboy? The poor kid.

      Another gem:
      I don’t think many here understand how uninvolved he (LRH) was in the development of tech going back for years.

      • splog

        176 pages !

        The thread went on for something like 2 1/2 years.
        And check up on faceinthecrowd’s postings – also a messenger from that same-ish time period who has many stories to tell

        • outraged

          Two and a half YEARS? I have to print this out, read it like a novel.

      • Robert Eckert

        It’s closer to a book than an article. It is not for reading in one sitting.

    • aegerprimo

      Bookmarked it this time! ☺

    • jeff

      Thanks, Asyhmatic Dwarf/Galactig Greg.Max. Just read the whole thing.

      • MaxSpaceman

        You’re welcome, Jeff.

        Max Spaceman
        and the band: and Asthmatic Dwarf, BeverlyHillsBeer, BeverlyHillsBeDoHave, Galactic Greg, ScientolOhGee, and SamSanAntonio.

        • jeff

          Will the band be here all week? Should I try the chicken?

          • MaxSpaceman

            The band is retired. You’ve not seen them. Unless you’re tripping to a concert in San Francisco’s Golden Gate Bridge. The chicken being? Ya’ got me there.

            • jeff

              Umm…It’s a standard thing when someone is telling (bad) jokes, they say I’ll be here all week, try the chicken.

            • MaxSpaceman

              oh- thanks: went right over my head!
              All of them ! lol
              You saw GC in SF dint you? I missed your review if you did one.
              And if you did, please link – would like to read it. :)

            • jeff

              This is what I wrote…it ain’t much “The Movie was excellent. You guys will love it. Nothing really new for regular readers of the Bunker, except that our proprietor confesses to being fair-gamed as PIs for the Scilons appeared on his mother’s porch. Also, Marty, in an around about fashion expresses remorse for his actions, chalking the Squirrel Busters up to karma. Cruise and Travolta come off looking like the fools they are and Mike Rinder does a great job explaining both Tommy Davis and the Stepford wives as they appeared on AC360. I expect this will be very widely seen on HBO and the celebrities are going to have a lot of explaining to do. As with the Time magazine article of 91, they imply that John Travolta is being held hostage by what’s in his auditing files (read lots of gay sex).”

            • MaxSpaceman

              Cool. Thanks :)
              Am going to the viewing in New York Sunday night. That’ll be interesting! I may take my iPad and blog comment a bit :)

  • Pierrot

    *** RED X +–+ Reminder +–+ RED X ***
    North Cal is leading the removals followed by LA, Bost & DC and Vancouver.

    Do not forget to vote for the Kittens and Wounded Warriors: http://www.milner.com/jumpstart/jumpstart-tampa
    Consider joining this petition to revoke co$ tax exempt status: https://www.change.org/p/i-r-s-revoke-the-tax-exempt-status-of-the-church-of-scientology

    RedX spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-Kvg78kCcvo5gL7UfPcmhmbsagTNtdj0y2LAiHVFrCU/pubhtml
    (F5, …for) RED X Gang by Aeger Primo inspired by Barbara Angel https://www.flickr.com/photos/120371503@N05/13156275813/in/set-72157642802079293

    • Eileen

      3 of the newer Boston ads are flagged for removal.

  • ze moo

    Remember the little puppies and kittens and wounded warriors.

    http://www.milner.com/jumpstart/jumpstart-tampa

    • Lucille Austero

      Done!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Thank you. You’re much more reliable than Ze Brain.

      • ze moo

        Thank TonyO for the first warning on Feb 28. Saved the puppies and kittens and somehow got the clam ‘school’ to run away and hide. We have until March 31 to vote, but right now the puppies have a 2 to 1 margin over the nearest competitor. Vote early, vote often.

        • Vaquera

          Bunker the Vote!

    • Cupcakes for Breakfast

      Thanks! Go kitties!

    • ScnMonkeyNuts

      Done (Thanks for the reminder).

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Done!

  • generic sock account
    • Donna Cline Sargent

      how creepy. ha

    • Ella Raitch

      Who is telling the story?

      • generic sock account

        His name’s Tom Dagnino, but he plays a character called Bobby Finstock on this podcast I just started listening to. He’s pretty damn funny.

  • Beth

    I have a sister who’s a lifer in CoS. I pretty much never hear from her, but I got a short email from her today. Not much to it, but it makes me wonder what’s going on in the halls of the org this week. Maybe it’s getting really icky.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Good roads, fair weather kind of note? Any questions in it?

      • Beth

        No. A sideways ask for money, if you can believe it. I’m learning alot here in the bunker and waiting to see the fallout from Sunday. Hopefully we’re both working toward a conversation.

        • Beth

          Jokes and cat pictures and such :-)

          • Beth

            What’s a good roads, fair weather kind of note? Maybe it was

            • HillieOnTheBeach

              Talks about anything but her involvement with scientology.

              The good news is that if she keeps some positive contact with you, you may be one of the first people she calls if she blows.

            • Beth

              Thanks for that HOTB . No, no mention of Sci – she never mentions that.

            • HillieOnTheBeach

              Same sentiment as THDNE, wishing you the best.

              Don’t give up hope.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              As Hillie said. Subject matter light and positive.

              I do so hope you will connect in the right time and place.

            • Beth

              Thanks DDD. yes, her cat picture jokes are very light and positive. And today she sent a link to a site where you can type in your birthday and find out what the No.1 song on the radio was. That’s about as deep as it gets.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Wishing the best.

          • Beth

            Thank you

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          You rarely hear form her and now she is sort of asking for money? Interesting. Is she a staff in an org, or locked away in the Sea Org somewhere?

  • Mrs. V.

    Mr. V.: What are you looking up?
    Me: My people
    (I came back here)

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Oh, lookee what the mailman brought me today. OSA, you’re so thoughtful. And free food too. Stop. You’re spoiling me. No, really, stop.

    http://i.imgur.com/aRB45FH.jpg?1

    Hey wait a sec. Travel and Relocation plans too!

    • NOLAGirl

      Register to win a free cremation? Fuck yeah, sign me up. (sarcasm of course)

      Could they be any creepier?

      • HillieOnTheBeach

        Yes they could’ve. Something tells me they stopped short of promoting sight-seeing train excursions and top-of-the-line shower facilites.

        • NOLAGirl

          If Dave thinks he can squeeze a penny out of it, nothing is off limits I guess. :)

        • Rasha

          “CREMATION: The Ride!!!” (Minimum height: 4ft 14in)

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            bwahaha. You all are sicko’s! :)

            • NOLAGirl

              Did you see the pic Tony just posted? Ohhh please Baby Xenu let it be the airing of Scientology Shopping Network or the David Miscavige documentary: I Have To Do It All.

              😀

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              It’s probably some local free channel that has to give time to non profits to stay on the air, or, anything on off channels at midnight. If it’s his Hole Shopping Channel, you can be sure there will golden graffitti and red ribbons falling from the sky everywhere with Hollywood floodlights and loudspeakers up and down the boulevard. And parades!

    • kemist

      So that’s what they do when they’re not writing pouty letters to HBO or trolling the fringe of the internet. Classy.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        I guess I kinda blew their other op when I wrote in detail about the creepy out of place lady at the gym. She never showed up again after I wrote that in the Bunker, btw. I have gotten one other creepy mail, by email though: a supposed survey (to get more intel of course) from a company that doesn’t seem to exist at all, or just registered last month according to WHO IS and their IP address looks like it may already be on fraud alert. The survey had to do with a subject matter that Mr. Hole’s last sci-related work place was involved in – the one where he got laid off all of a sudden like. Mr Hole has had nothing to do with said subject since then, several years ago.

        Haven’t seen any noticeable stalkers hanging around though. Maybe their stats are down and they have to budget those only for the Big Bean SP’s :)

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          Do you have any friends with a warped sense of humor? In college I thoughtfully arranged to have friends receive samples of adult diapers in the mail…

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            I used to – decades ago.

          • Sherbet

            Hey, Dougie D — What goes around, comes around…

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Never thought of that…

    • Kim O’Brien

      there is actually a place here in Colorado ..in the boonies ..that will torch you on a pyre like a Viking ((without the water and the boat). They also serve BBQ and will provide pot . No lie

      • NOLAGirl

        And I thought we had some crazy mf’s down here. 😀

        • Kim O’Brien

          they will also take you out on a ” see the strange lights in the sky cuz they are aliens” hiking trip . They do provide snacks …..so it can’t be THAT strange LOL

          • NOLAGirl

            Does that hike include pot too? I think it would help. 😀

            • Kim O’Brien

              everything includes pot ..it’s legal :)

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        I’d like a boat. No, wait. Make that a yacht, and bring all the rest. Colorado does it right.

    • NOLAGirl

      “Hey wait a sec. Travel and Relocation plans too!”

      Also, the “leave your checkbook at home” LOL A sure sign that while Co$ left it, that isn’t one of their businesses. :)

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        It’s a trap. Cremation is pretty creepy, I have to admit. Last time, I only got the regular mortuary promo pieces. Even though it was was during last fair game era, I never connected it to their “fun” and tricks at the time. But I read on Raw Story this week some of the tactics used against the journalists – and one mentioned the mortuary promo. Doh!

        • NOLAGirl

          OSA, you’re so childish. I suggest you keep it to these foolish tricks. You press her any harder and I’m going to get….well, lets call it ‘chaffed’.

    • Science Doc

      But I’m not dead yet!

      • Vaquera

        I’m getting better.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Anybody who responds to this appeal is toast!

    • Still_On_Your_Side

      With millions of people about to watch an expose on his church, this is Miscavige’s response? I don’t think I am ever going to get used to his smallness. I don’t mean his height. The fair gaming, dead agenting, dirty tricks, they are all evidence of a tiny mind that is unable to respond as a sane adult to stressful situations. His violence, his puerile sense of humor, his inability to form adult relationships, all of it points to a seriously disturbed, small minded man.

  • Tony Ortega

    NEW PHOTO ADDED TO THE POST

    • SNAFU

      Monday at midnight? F5

      • Vaquera

        Now, if SciTV Argentina was debuting this coming Sunday night at, oh, let’s say 8:00 EST and if HBO was premiering Going Clear in Argentina this coming Sunday night at, oh, let’s say 8:00 EST….well, then that would be predictable. But Monday at the witching hour?

        • ze moo

          Perhaps this is a ‘public access’ channel? I’ve seen a CCHR infomercial on a local cable tv public access station. Sorry I deleted the recording. It was sad and hilarious at the same time.

          • SNAFU

            It certainly sounds like they’re going with their old late night infomercial angle once again.

  • God
    • David E Love

      What a very beautiful photo of these two brave and courageous people. I wish them both, all the best in all they do, all people they help, and may they enjoy a long, happy life together.

    • Mrs. V.

      I’m such a girl brought up on Disney. I love seeing photos like this of couples who are truly happy together.

  • MaxSpaceman

    “There is a crack in everything. That’s how the light gets in.” — Leonard Cohen. May Sunday night be a beginning of an opening of a fissure in the North Korea-that-is-Scientology Incorporated. For all its adherents. Let it be so. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XELw3dKK_Ig

    • Mrs. V.

      I don’t play a lot of posted music from the comments here….but for Mr. Cohen, well I’ll make an exception. I missed him when he was here in Detroit last….hate being broke.

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paIgd_lvAuI&feature=share Ginger Sugerman

    LRH took things from others and it looks as if he’s the source of it. Marty went down the rabbit hole and sees the truth. Arnie is almost done writing his book exposing a lot of this. Luckily I had Arnie Lerma to show me that hole faster. He was able to show me, connect the dots of the source of many things LRH attributed to himself. LRH and $cientology are a FRAUD per the meaning of that word. Criminal Racket at best. Thanks to Marty, Alex and all others who have spoken out in this documentary and any place else. I feel this movie will prevent others from going into this Cult for sure !!

  • Spike Robinson

    Thank you, Tony! We can always count on you for clarification and truth; those are rare commodities these days.

  • ScnMonkeyNuts

    After spending 50 minutes cussing and swearing at windows paint, I have, for the delectation and delight of The Bunker, the following (but given what last night’s was, shouldn’t be too surprising!) See y’all tomorrow :)

    • Rasha

      GOOOOO!!!!!!!

    • splog

      Thunderbirds, eh gads. Am I revealing too much if I say I remember watching the originals on the telly?? :-)

      • ScnMonkeyNuts

        Not at all, I enjoyed them as a wee sprog when they were re–run in the mid to late 80s, absolutely classic stuff :)

  • Sherbet

    I know what the Argentina show is: The scientology version of “Evita,” called “Entheta,” featuring soon-to-be classics such as “Goodnight and Thank You and So On and So Forth,” “I’d be Surprisingly Good for Lou,” and, of course, “Don’t Cry for Me, Trementina.”

    • MaxSpaceman

      very good, Sherb– and dang! that Dragon sure types good!

      • Sherbet

        It’s so frickin’ slow for me!

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          You need a new avatar !

          • Sherbet

            Why? Space creatures shouldn’t be slow? Or I should put little wrist splints on the green guy?

    • Sibs

      I literally just threw up and I turned the Bunker on my phone to read while I rest. I am so happy this was the first comment I saw.

      • Sherbet

        I’m glad I wasn’t responsible for the throwing up.

        • Sibs

          Allergic reaction to medication. Waiting for it to wear off.

          • Sherbet

            Poor baby! Get cozy.

          • Free Minds, Free Hearts

            I am sorry Sibs, hope it wears off soon.

    • Observer

      Sherb, you missed your calling. You should have been a stand-up comedian.

    • jeff

      Too funny!

  • Theo Sismanides

    That’s from Marty’s blog. See the 31 Factors below.

    Do I have to quote specific parts where Marty does say that Scientology is a workable and actually vital subject? I don’t think so.

    I don’t care about Hollywood PTSness that most Americans seem to have. Fame is more important than essence. So some choose to profit by poor journalism and sensationalism and lies upon the subject of Scientology of which of course (like all good journalists) they know very little about. From hearsay “evidence” they utterly not-is the subject itself, focusing on the mortal L. Ron Hubbard and his traits of personality, at the same time profiting from it by tabloid-like type of activity and “informative to the public” campaigns.

    Congratulations to all reporters on that. See if you can bring Miscavige down, for which I will take my hat off to you. But don’t try to bring the subject down. You can make it look dangerous, you can hide it from public view or alter-is it but eventually somehow you just bring it up more and more.

    The truth is Marty was a Scientologist but now he is not just Miscavige PTS he is also Hollywood PTS and that’s contagious as it looks like.

    Thirty-One Factors For Scientologists to Consider

    https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/31-factors/

    Scientology Founder L. Ron Hubbard discovered methodologies that can enhance self-determinism, increase freedom of choice, and bring about higher states of awareness and beingness to those who practice them. Hubbard developed a method of confession that includes unconditional forgiveness and results in more able, happy and peaceful beings. Hubbard developed an ethics system that an individual can apply to himself to improve his worth to himself and to his fellows. Hubbard established a form of organizational policy that is predicated on rewarding accomplishment rather than punishing failure. Hubbard set forth many of the fundamental values of Scientology and its organizations in the Creed of the Church of Scientology, The Code of a Scientologist, and the Credo of a True Group Member. Thirty-one factors have been discovered that threaten the continued viability of this vital subject.

    • sugarplumfairy

      Ohhhh, Theo.. I love you, but you exhaust me..

    • Theo Sismanides

      Μarty has been subjected to severe suppression by Miscavige in and out of the church. If he would have been left to his own devices we would see the outcome. The man has been conditioned to think “Scientology, DM style”.

      • NOLAGirl

        Theo, you can believe what you want, but perhaps you should let Marty speak for himself. This post by Tony today is Marty speaking for himself.

        • Mrs. V.

          Yep, let Marty speak for himself. Even though he writes a blog, no one really knows what he’s thinking and feels but him.

          • Theo Sismanides

            oh, how sweet!!! Ooooh…

            The Marty’s can destroy Scientology from in and out but then they can say anything they want. Marty was delivering Scientology auditing. And he was a Scientologist. Actually, so you know he coined the term Independents (Independent Scientologists) which still holds.

            • Kim O’Brien

              well ..he changed his mind . Happens every day . You can hold onto cans as much as you want ..why knock someone who does not want to do it anymore ? Besides ..he has better things in his life now . Whatever he called it before , or what he calls it now , why does it bother you ? It does not effect your life ..actually has nothing to do with you at all . He used to think one way ..now he thinks another way . No harm to you at all . I find it odd that it bothers you so much . I mean ..it’s not like he is stealing your business

            • Mrs. V.

              So happy that we are able to change our minds!

            • Theo Sismanides

              “changed his mind” is closer to the facts. now we start putting things in the right perspective. Marty was delivering auditing.

            • Kim O’Brien

              so what is your point ? Are you mad that he now calls it a mistake ? If auditing is supposed to keep you IN scientology ..and people he audited got OUT of scientology …seems almost logical for him to question if it was really ” auditing” at all .

            • coonellie

              Theo, whenever I see you posting here I get incredibly sad. Sad for all you’ve lost, sad that you’ve given up a professional career, and sad that you’ve bought into that age-old lie of becoming a superman with super powers. You are obviously a bright person and yet your gifts and talents are being squandered.

              Really, honestly, it makes me cry for you. I’m so sorry.

            • Theo Sismanides

              oooohhh! how sweet of you!

            • Kim O’Brien

              it actually is very sweet Theo . I am sorry that is lost on you ..i know that compassion is low on the tone scale ..but if you can’t cry for what you lost ..others can do it for you . You are lucky that someones heart breaks for you . It is a blessing

            • Theo Sismanides

              You don’t know the Tone Scale, so how can you know where compassion falls? The more up-tone you become the more responsible you become. Does this ring a bell?

            • Mrs. V.

              Not your business. If he doesn’t think scientology is useful anymore, not your problem, or anyone else’s. My only point was that he can type away, but you’re not really in his head. And neither is anyone. We are who we are. No one knows me better than my husband, but even he can’t possibly know everything I’m thinking.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Scientology IS my business more than Ortega’s or Rathbun’s.

            • Mrs. V.

              But other people’s belief in scientology is not your business. No more than me thinking you need to be a Christian. It’s not my place, so I won’t witness to you.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Really? So you coming here, saying anything about my religion is ok and me I should shut up and listen eh?

              What’s your religion?

            • Mrs. V.

              You are free to say whatever you want. So is Marty, so am I.

            • Robert Eckert

              No, it really isn’t.

            • mockingbird

              Humble ?

            • Theo Sismanides

              No, thanks! I have paid for it. How about you (mr. no MUs) going to the theatre you have paid your ticket and someone says there are no seats for you? How does that feel? Oh, I am sure you are gonna be very humble and say “oh, no seats for me? Ah, ok, never mind, I’lll go home watch TV. Thank you, Sir, and sorry for the trouble”.

        • Theo Sismanides

          Didn’t I quote his words from his blog when he decided to put it up? Look, look, because I am not a reporter, ok? I have been frequenting Marty’s blog since its inception. Marty’s intention was to help people recover from DM’s version of Scientology and he was a Scientologist all the way. He never wanted to lead but he would deliver auditing and he did deliver auditing. Auditing is Scientology. Using an e-meter is Scientology, no other practice uses an e-meter.

          Now Tony with a beaten up Marty want to name it something else. After some years. Well scripta manent, verba volant.

          • NOLAGirl

            So what do you want from him? He believed, and now he doesn’t. Who cares what he called it back then or what he sees it as now? What does it matter now that he’s managed to extricate himself from the mind-fuck? I just don’t get why you care what he called it then and what he calls it now.

    • Tony Ortega

      Classic, Theo. What did I explain in the post? That where Rathbun is today is nothing like where he was in 2009. So what do you do? You point to a post Marty put up in 2009 and say, see, Marty thought LRH was on to something.

      Well, try to understand that the quotes I have of him in this post are accurate, and he told them to me THIS WEEK, not in 2009. And what did he say?

      “What I was doing in Ingleside wasn’t Scientology. It was just the ability to instill confidence in somebody, and when you come down to something that generic, that’s not Scientology, that’s just something Hubbard ripped off from someone else.”

      You can blast reporters all you want, but I checked that quote with Marty before I posted it. It’s accurate. And you can pretend that he’s still thinking what he was in 2009, but the facts don’t support it. Nice try, though.

      • Theo Sismanides

        The 31 Factors are not Scientology, right Tony? That’s your level of duplicating facts?

        • Kim O’Brien

          31 flavors of ice cream as Baskin Robbins Ice Cream Shop . Now i am hungry

          • Theo Sismanides

            Put on your glasses, or better come back to this body of your’s. It feels tooooo lonely.

            • Kim O’Brien

              i have perfect vision …did not need to yell at an ashtray to get it either . I just work out a lot

            • Theo Sismanides

              Keep working out… a lot, ok?

            • Kim O’Brien

              keep spelling words wrong and missing the point …Ok ?

      • Theo Sismanides

        I don’t care about Marty, Tony. Obviously he has his own life now. But when he got involved he considered himself a Scientologist. I do care about the subject though, which you malign in every chance and in poor tabloid style, knowing nothing about it. So, you give me enough motivators to come here and say my thing, too. Enough with tabloids, enough with the church scientology propaganda, do some objective journalism and interview some Indies, too.

        Let’s see the documentary. I hope it’s gonna be a bit more objective about the subject.

        • Tony Ortega

          Can’t wait for you to see the film. You’re going to love how Hubbard comes out.

          • Theo Sismanides

            I saw the Master. It was rather descent. I hope this one is decent. Now, please start interviewing some Indies too if you want to be objective about “scientology”, not “Scientology” (brand name owned by the church). Thank you.

            • Kim O’Brien

              decent …not descent .

            • RBE

              M/U, flip out the dictionary

            • Tony Ortega

              But that’s just it, Theo. I’ve interviewed many indies, like Marty Rathbun, for example. And look what happens. They slide all the way out. It’s not my fault, I swear.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Hahaha, don’t play with words with me, Mr. Ortega. You just said it. Rathbun is NOT an Indie. I am not surprised that Scientology goes by the boards if such people of such low certainly and quibble were on the reigns of it.

            • Mindphucker

              Dude, are you drunk or did you turn the voltage up too high on the cans?

            • Theo Sismanides

              I turned up the voltage on lies!

            • Kim O’Brien

              he WAS an indie … ( just like you ) now he is not. It really is not that hard to follow Theo . Like ..not hard at all . Try to keep up

            • Theo Sismanides

              He was and he was delivering auditing.

            • Robert Eckert

              But all that his “PC’s” needed to talk out was the damage to their minds from Scientology, and as they and he came to understand this damage, they and he stopped being Indies. We find it a little sad that you can’t manage to move on in the same way, but you have the right to strange beliefs if you aren’t hurting anyone. You know that you are not going to convince anyone here that LRH came up with anything that “makes people more able” etc. (we look at you, and see someone whose abilities are stifled by LRH nonsense).

            • Theo Sismanides

              the nasty guy became more polite. That’s a progress. I can change some conditions, man!

            • mockingbird

              I was an indie for about two minutes – literally – and then I read the rest of an article by Jon Atack and worked through that transitional phase . A solid two minutes . Tony Ortega can interview me .

            • Theo Sismanides

              Oh, it’s you again with MUs don’t exist…. ah ok.. whatever you say, dude.

            • http://www.tonyortega.org/ DodoTheLaser

              Thanks for giving me a good laugh, Tony!

            • Phil McKraken

              The Master was not about Hubbard. Lancaster Dodd was far too sane to be believable in the role.

          • Theo Sismanides

            Tony, after all this, I come back to your point here. I know we have had some clashes. I know sometimes I come as an intruder here to what you built and I am bad or old news to some. Mostly I hope what you are saying about Hubbard is gonna be ok. I read Lawrence Wright’s interview saying he wanted to help reform the church. That can be good. Let’s see the film.

            But without any antagonism and with all due respect, if you want to see a 3rd side of the coin (or yes there is a 3rd side on a coin, it’s thin and it’s all circular and it exists) do me a favour and interview some Indie. I know this spoils the show but you never know:

            I am on a ride to nowhere, come on inside… (talking heads)… You never know where this is gonna lead us. Certainly, all disagreements aside and misunderstandings etc. my hat is off to you about helping to expose Miscavige, not even the church, mind you what I am saying, Miscavige. Scientology, as a philosophy is completely another plateau. Completely. It came to stay. Goodnight.

        • Kim O’Brien

          yes ..let’s see the documentary . Along with like a bajillion other people . Going to be awesome .

        • NOLAGirl

          “I don’t care about Marty, Tony.”

          Yet, you’ve started a whole thread on Marty. Hmmm.

          • Theo Sismanides

            Read on, do you have MUs? Can’t you read past four lines?

            • mockingbird

              MUs do not exist !!!! They are part of Hubbard’s loaded language to reframe reality and control you !! I cover this in great depth in Insidious Enslavement : Study Technology at my blog Mockingbird’s Nest .

            • Theo Sismanides

              yeah right! Oh my god, what kind of blinds do they put on you people. Get an auditor and ask him for a word clearing session. Then come and talk to me.

              “MUs don’t exist!!” wow… what a certainty. Here is the person who knows everything.

              Καλά άμα αρχίσω να μιλάω Greek, Ι will give you some MUs και μετά θα ψάχνεσαι…. κατάλαβες; And believe me, though all of this is Greek (MUs) to you, I didn’t say any bad word.

              But how do you feel about the sentence above? You may be thinking I lied to you and I said bad things about you. You may even wanna go as far to Google translate this whole sentence to find out. You may you may not. But you surely didn’t fully get. MUs don’t exist!!!!!!

            • mockingbird

              Hubbard used propanda by reversal of meaning – he used terms to describe their reverse . In practice an MU is a method , not a word . In his method a person can find and look up words and they can do other things . One of those things is to read a sentence or paragraph and be sure they get it . And also see a contradiction or untrue statement or something illogical . They “know” that blankness , overwhelm , a sort of not there feeling , nervous hysteria are described by Hubbard as always from MUs – but they are certain they do not have any . This contradiction creates confusion and cognitive dissonance with the accompanying mental discomfort and blankness – Hubbard then misdirects his victim’s mind off the discomfort onto a word to “clear” . The directing of attention off a confusion and onto a Hubbard “datum” gives temporary relief as the dissonance is no longer being critically analyzed . The victim mistakes the lessening of dissonance for “feeling brighter”. And thinks they “cleared” a word and have”gains”of a delusional nature .

              I am very certain this is how Hubbard did this and he based it on his study of hypnotism . I have written several articles at my blog Mockingbird’s Nest descibing this in terms from hypnosis and psychology in very great detail .

              The above mentioned one as well as Basic Introduction to Hypnosis in Scientology and PISSED it’s not your fault and others .

              I sincerely hope you will read them . Hubbard reversed many terms which is a method Orwell described in the appendix to 1984 .

              It works to hide true meanings . Examples – clear means to add suggestions . Audit means to direct and control and reshape , redefine and replace thought . Total Freedom means complete slavery . The Sea Org “elite” are the lowest slave class . The Freewinds is a ship manned by slaves where mental enslavement occurs . I have listed in great detail how Hubbard does this at my blog as well . I invite everyone to read it and please comment .

              By the way ad hominem attacks are a behavior Hubbard implanted among many others . I have listed 14 logical fallacies Hubbard routinely implants Scientologists to have strongly influence them and control their thoughts and emotions and behavior . They are listed in PISSED it’s not your fault!

              Really he used many more and many complex ones built on others . I also have articles on that .

              Feel free to read them all .

            • Theo Sismanides

              I think you opened a subject I can’t go into at 5 am. Meanwhile, did you read my Greek? hahaha.

        • Scream Nevermore

          Why do you only come here when there’s something big going on? Can’t you go and pontificate somewhere else?

        • chukicita

          Theo, I appreciate that you’ve had quite a journey, and your knowledge and experience with Scientology is your own. Tony also has experience with it – quite a bit, actually – and his knowledge and experience come from being able to make informed decisions about it, with information coming from more than one source.

          In more than 20 years of watching people leave Scientology, I’d say the vast majority eventually realize that they have also grown a different viewpoint of the subject, simply by virtue of being able to talk freely about it. It’s a long hard row to hoe, as my grandfather would say.

          I think Tony has been very objective throughout the years – and very patient. Others have come to different conclusions than you about the value of the tech. You should understand that if you participate here.

        • Jgg2012

          Theo, why doesn’t COB David Miscavige come here and respond? I mean, it’s not like he’s busy (he hasn’t opened an org in months). Tony would be glad to interview him, just like he asked Tommy Davis to interview with him.

    • RBE

      Come up for air from the Kool Aid once in a while, you might like it.

      • Theo Sismanides

        bla, bla, bla… I am not in the church. I have been declared, ok? that’s Kool Aid proof!

        • RBE

          Kool Aid comes in different flavours

        • Robert Eckert

          So you manufacture your own Kool Aid and drown in it.

        • Science Doc

          I’d like to hear your story. Why were you declared?

          • Theo Sismanides

            Thank you Science Doc, really. I was declared because I didn’t shut up my mouth about the non application of HCOBs, namely the Translations HCOBs (these are technical policies by Hubbard which are to be applied in all cases). And I was persecuted for that. From that point on I became like Marty and many others a black ship. You can google Theo Sismanides and read This is a piece of my track in the Sea Org.

            This is what we were faced with. And Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder KNOW this. And they were part of Management at that time. Not that they could do anything much against Miscavige. But I didn’t quit my Law Profession here in Greece to go to the Sea Org to have such arses (the biggest one Miscavige) tell me WHAT IS THERE TO BE APPLIED, OR NOT. Hubbard had laid it out and I should have been protected for opening my mouth for policy which was not applied, and not persecuted. But that’s the level they have brought Scientology to. To fit their purposes and other agendas. Which is going to be the religion on this planet in 2050? Do you think it’s gonna be Christianity or Islam? LOL!

            Thanks again for asking.

            • Science Doc

              Thanks for replying. Hope you are getting everything put back together after being in the Sea Org. Look forward to hearing more some time.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Thanks Science Doc, I appreciate it. I am looking forward to the Documentary. Hope this steers some things up. You can’t imagine how evil Miscavige is and he has manipulated many good people. Enough is enough. Let’s all people join to throw him out.

            • Robert Eckert

              LRH was evil, too. Miscavige is the way he was because he learned at the feet of the master.

            • Ella Raitch

              http://www.freiescientologen.de/theos1.htm

              Here is a link. Didn’t know you were in the Sea Org, Theo – must’ve missed that part.

            • Theo Sismanides

              yes, I was Ella. For 9 years. And I keep going to protect my religion or better philosophy. I love people but I hate it when they poke their nose into everything as if they knew. For almost 30 years now I have been studying the subject and it suits me. When I see it being maligned I have a right to say also my thing. Thanks for publishing my story. When I wrote it I thought it would have some impact. Then I was declared because I wouldn’t withdraw it. And I never will. That’s my story and that’s my life. To serve Man understand better. Maybe I am no big name or no big doer but my comfort is to whisper it to people that this world could be better. Not just with Scientology. But with us caring to not invalidate the others and not lie about the things they cherish. I have dedicated my life to Scientology and I don’t withdraw my allegiance because of the Suppression and Oppression I feel applied against my reasoning and ethics fibre. Though, it’s been many times torn to pieces this ethics fibre keeps me going. I stay loyal to what helped me. I left the church because of its suppression.

              I want to see Miscavige taken down. It’s time we unite our voices.

            • kemist

              All of them. With dwindling membership. I hope we never have a world with only one religion. Unless it is Dudeism.

              The fastest growing religion everywhere is the “nones”.

    • Mrs. V.

      Theo, you have every right to believe what you want to believe, and I’ll never tell you different. But I don’t agree with you that Hollywood, or anyone is “PTS” to LRH. It is what it is.

      But I will add, the Catholic Church created a “method of confession that includes unconditional forgiveness and results in more able, happy” people two thousand years before he did.

      • sugarplumfairy

        And the best part about confession.. it’s free!

        • Mrs. V.

          Free. And not recorded. Or video-taped. Or discussed outside the confessional.

          • Scream Nevermore

            And they will not make notes of it and sit around reading them out for entertainment.

    • Eivol Ekdal

      Come up to present time.

      • Theo Sismanides

        Right, I was in 2050 looking over your dead body!

        • Lucille Austero

          Were you looking over a big giant cyst?

          • Theo Sismanides

            Come on, you said that! Can you be a bit more inventive with words?

    • HillieOnTheBeach

      “From hearsay “evidence” they utterly not-is the subject itself, focusing
      on the mortal L. Ron Hubbard
      and his traits of personality,”

      Honestly, where do you draw the line between mortal and (presumably) immortal LRH? Where does he make that distinction himself?

      • Theo Sismanides

        The body is mortal… the being (ok… I have to do a little explaining now) the being is not the body or his life. The being is what he has left behind. That’s what matters. We are all mortal and we all fall under the category of Homo Sapiens. A body, a mind. But the being behind those is what’s left behind of him. That’s where I draw the line. Enough with the L. Ron Hubbard did this and that. L. Ron Hubbard (shamefully for all professor, and I had enough) left a whole technology about Study, which works. Tony Ortega, don’t tell me this doesn’t work either, lol. This is so obvious now that at least this thing can be put in full application in schools. But no, not even this. So, that’s where I make the distinction.

        You guys concentrate on a human being while I and many others have concentrated on what this being had to say.

        • HillieOnTheBeach

          Theo,

          1- you could make a point if you were minimally coherent. Obfuscation tactic, I suppose.

          2- If LRH is Source, he would’ve been above the failings of his “mortal LRH” self.

          • Observer

            English isn’t Theo’s first language. I don’t give him a hard time about it because his English is MUCH better than my Greek.

            • HillieOnTheBeach

              English isn’t my first language either. Maybe we should try latin.

            • Observer

              Really? My hat is off to you then. I’d never have guessed. You speak better than many natives.

            • HillieOnTheBeach

              Really? And I thought it was obvious all this time; I speak it fine but thought my writing really, really sucked and gave me away.

            • Observer

              Nope, there is no suckage. You had me completely hoodwinked.

            • Missionary Kid

              You’ve been very literate and fluent here in writing English.

            • MaxSpaceman

              no one would’ve guessed, Hillie. no one. (what’s the 1st language, if it’s ok to ask)

            • HillieOnTheBeach

              French

            • MaxSpaceman

              Your living in North America is why your English is so perfectomundo?

            • Robert Eckert

              The problem is not with his English. His grammar, syntax, and spelling are generally quite good. It is the scattered logic which leads to the disjointed impression he gives.

            • Observer

              In other words, too much Hubbard.

          • Theo Sismanides

            you people, you still want miracles… Didn’t learn anything from Christ?

            • HillieOnTheBeach

              Theo, LRH promised miracles.

            • Theo Sismanides

              And miracles he delivered. If it wasn’t for Scientology America would have killed us all. I am not actually underestimating this at all. Scientology IS THE ONLY EFFECTIVE CIVILISING MOVEMENT so that the Americans don’t attack and blow up the whole planet. Look at their government and secret services. They’ve gone too far. But the buck stops here. With Scientology. Now, for the first time a person is held responsible himself/herself for what he/she is doing. And there is no God anymore to warranty all the bad perpetrated and wars waged by criminal governements. Scientology can calm down Man and give him hope for a better future.

              Now, the Global Enslavers seeing they couldn’t attack it and bring it down in a straight way chose to do it covertly. And that’s what they have been trying to do for many years now. But each day a Scientologist gets someone to understand something better and then by understanding they don’t need to revolt against oppression but they don’t get hurt either. They now have a choice. Scientology can change conditions in life.

              Isn’t that a miracle?

            • Scream Nevermore

              Oh shut up. Put on your tinfoil hat and go home!

            • HillieOnTheBeach

              *backs away slowly*

              Eta: sorry y’all

            • Mark

              Cretinous conspiracy-theory gibberish.

            • Robert Eckert

              Scientology has had zero influence on the government except for: tying up courts with futile litigation; intimidating the tax man so that more money can be piled up; and impeding criminal investigations.

            • kemist

            • Mindphucker

              Dude, you do realize that you are commenting on the Underground Bunker and not Back in Comm? Jeez, you forgot to mention chem trails, the Illuminati and Big Foot.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Thanks for mentioning, It’s true, I forgot.

            • Kim O’Brien

              Christ lived 2000 years ago . LRH put his bullshit on tape . Like ..ON TAPE IN HIS OWN WORDS ,IN YOUR LIFETIME . You must be calling LRH a liar . Welcome to the club

            • Theo Sismanides

              you completely alter is what I said. And of course you can’t get it. Your fixation on Hubbard shows that you wouldn’t even dare try the Study Tech on anybody. This is what those people in power want. That you never, never, never look into Scientology. Never.

            • Kim O’Brien

              of course i looked into scientology ..i can even go online and listen to LRH . HE PROMISES THINGS …on tape , in his own words , over and over and over again . You are obviously calling him a liar ..if miracles do not happen by doing what he said to do ..then he is a liar and a cheat . You are almost there Theo ..almost . The tech does not work Theo ..if it did , we would not be having this conversation .

        • Jgg2012

          Then shows us a perfect clear.

          • shasha40

            I wanna see a “Mother F#cking Clear ” , ala Jason Beghe , Please !

            • Jgg2012

              Right. He showed no improvement after years and spending hundreds of thousands
              on the “tech that works and helps people”.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Hahaha, Jason Beghe…. another sad story of the church. Pay, pay, pay… pay…

              – “Do you have any wins?”

              – “Oh, yes, yes, yes” But obviously he didn’t.

              Don’t expect miracles people. Especially don’t expect that DOLLARS (= MEST) is going to do anything for you. You have to sweat in order to get something decent done. Even if you are called Jason Beghe.

            • Jgg2012

              He did sweat when he was in the purify, as did the 45 Narconon victims who are now suing the church. And that reminds me–whatever happened to Clark Carr and his vacated office? Is Narconon defaulting on its lawsuits?

            • Theo Sismanides

              Narconon is a very touch procedure. If someone does not know how to deliver it, you can have big problems. It also needs doctor care and attendance. The way I did it for example I don’t think many precautions were taken.

              But I got your point on Jason Beghe sweating in the sauna. Now, what the other definition of “to sweat”. can you come a little closer? (someone said that word clearing isn’t valuable, lol…. I now see what they mean).

            • shasha40

              Yep, and doing damn good without it ! Go Jason , you sexy thing ! :)

          • Theo Sismanides

            I don’t have to show you anything or anyone. I am just telling you that if you deal in Scientology in this way you are going to have also the other perspective. That saying that Scientology does have results and can create results for the betterment of Man.

            You just want Symbols and operate on Symbols. You trust what you can see with your MEST eyes and are being fed all the crap daily from around the world, on TV, newspapers and think that this is life.

            And then you want a Clear to give you some direction and an example.

            Well, you be Clear Mr. or Mrs Jgg2012 and start doing something about this world.

            • Kim O’Brien

              well …whatever you are doing is not working ..Greece is in trouble and you are just flat out lazy

            • Theo Sismanides

              The “LENDERS” (see, Global Enslavers) have made sure to lend a shit load of money to the ignorant in how-to-profit-in-this-new-world Greeks (except for producing Feta Cheese and Olive Oil) and knowing that they have a great land, now they are pressuring us to pay them up. But all this time, they never complained about the wasted money they lent us much less did something to give any KNOW HOW to the Greek people so they can stay afloat if not prosper.

              When you have a child in your family which is lazy (it can be really something you can’t help) but usually it’s the parents who allow this to happen. The Seniors. It’s like me blaming now a new Scientologist for not knowing who Miscavige really is. He wouldn’t know. It’s my responsibility to show him and give him the correct data.

              Greece is a thorn to the Globalisation and it needs to be taken out. That’s the short story of it. America has been a leading example in Globalisation and Corporatism, a new post-capitalism regime that rules the world. Look at Monsanto. It rules. Period.

            • Kim O’Brien

              so LRH tech can’t even beat a company like Monsanto ?? Huh ..thats weird . How can it save the planet if it can’t even take care of THAT ? Bummer . Seems that tech is pretty weak . Oh well …looks like we have to count on YOU to save the planet Theo ..hanging out on a blog seems to be kind of counter productive . There might be a car accident down the road ..and thanks to you ..someone will die ..after all ..only YOU can help . What would LRH say about your laziness ??

            • Theo Sismanides

              Kim O’Brien, I have said it already that Scientology has been taken over, in my opinion. Now, it’s a cult. That’s all it is. Unable to do much for the planet. If you want to put your shoulder to the wheel be my guest.

              I have other businesses also than saving a whole bunch of fixated to the body thetans. Don’t you think?

            • Kim O’Brien

              not really . I mean you gave up your job as a lawyer ..seems like you have enough time on your hands to save a child in a car accident .

            • Theo Sismanides

              I think I am through with you and chit chatting. You got your share of answers. One left, on asking me if I have children. Do something in your life instead of trying to utter some incoherent thoughts there. Your comment DOES NOT make sense.

            • Juicer77

              Hi Theo. I am just joining this conversation. I’m glad you are here to share your experience. I may not agree with you but I’m glad you are willing to share your viewpoint.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Thank you Juicer77. And if I may add here one thing. My whole beef is with those presenting Scientology when it’s a biased presentation. I know of the abuses of the church. I have been a victim of them. I was locked or 2 months with the Security Guards in Copenhagen. But that’s one thing and the philosophy of Scientology, it looks like, is completely another thing. And this I can say because now I am not in the church anymore and can apply freely the tech as I know and as I can.

              And it grieves me to not be able to say anything whereas everybody else has a say in it. I hope the documentary has something to say which is more objective.

              I, too, stand for your rights people for a better and fairer world. Don’t think that because we disagree on Scientology we wouldn’t agree on many other things.

            • Juicer77

              So sorry to hear that you had bad experiences in the past. I haven’t seen Going Clear yet either, and am really looking forward to seeing it this Sunday on HBO. I would like to hear your thoughts after you’ve seen it. It’s very possible that we have areas of agreement as well as disagreement. I’m a Christian (and have never been involved in Scientology) so I have views that many here do not agree with. There will be times here when people make fun of or attack various religious beliefs. It’s part of the give-and-take in a free speech environment. Perhaps sharing some of the good things about your belief (if you are comfortable doing so) would be helpful to those of us who are trying to understand your point of view.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Dear Juicer77, allow me to disagree. It’s not part of the give-and-take in a free speech environment. It’s part of the toll you have to pay in such a mad environment. I come here mostly for amusement. You know, some wild cats are around who believe in nothing else but their very bodies and that there is no soul, no such a thing as a spiritual world, it’s all crap and the wackos who believe such things should be pointed out as such.

              If we see the story of Christ and what he had to go through at that time, we are living now a similar era. The age where Reason fades out fast. Reason is no more comprehended much less appreciated. Since many are far from being able to exercise their reasoning powers and since the system wants to keep them as pawns (ignoring the rules of the game) and feeding them “valuable data”, anyone who would be different than them and able to reason would be immediately an opponent or one to eliminate.

              On sharing some things about my belief I would recommend you look on the internet and find some things to read about Scientology. Though the church has been taken over by evil beings it still keeps the main core of theory almost intact. I say almost because the more juicy stuff is being tampered with. But you don’t need that to know what’s Scientology all about.

            • Juicer77

              If you’re not comfortable sharing personal information I respect that. I find it more meaningful to hear a personal story rather than reading information on the ‘net (which I’ve done).

            • Theo Sismanides

              it’s 4.15 am here, and I am not in a mental and body mood to give you a good description of it. I am so sorry. But in essence it’s that we are spiritual being incarnated and having forgotten the laws of our own nature. We believe we are bodies because others do so, but we do feel an inner warmth and dynamic and a whole inner world. That this world is being ignored or let’s say not as much taken care of as compared to the body grieves us a lot, and unable to find any agreement on who we really are we tend to be bodies more than ourselves.

              I am sorry to give you that version of what scientology is, is not palatable and maybe not even orthodox but scientology has helped me gain back the certainty of WHO I REALLY AM. Now, amidst people who are doomed to struggle everyday just to keep their bodies to survive and not being as fortunate or determined as me when I embarked on this journey some 25 years ago, it’s kind of very egoistical to say all this and also it creates a big, big gap of no understandings…. People want a way out BUT they want it at their own pace. Coming down on them hard won’t do the thing. It needs to be done on the right gradient which is right for THEM.

            • Jgg2012

              ” I don’t have to show you anything or anyone ” especially when you can’t. I love it when clams say that.

            • Theo Sismanides

              you see? I don’t need to waste my time with people who NEED BODIES. (SYMBOLS) Look it up in the Tone Scale. Second page, kind of towards the bottom.

              You just need bodies! Come on, take some spiritual breath and let the body thing a bit. Come on. Take a breath into the Universe and see how it feels when you get a spiritual being down to the clam level. Come on. I urge you tomorrow to look up in the sky and get some space. Really BIG SPACE… see how it feels. Bye.

            • Kim O’Brien

              i can do a back handspring ..at the age of 45 . Trust me ..i LOVE showing people that 😉 Seems like such a waste not to share super powers huh ? LOL

            • Theo Sismanides

              nah, that’s a body thing again. Better, take a child who does not understand his/her text for next day and do some word clearing with him/her. That would be a miracle. And a helpful one.

            • Kim O’Brien

              dear god …please tell me you do not have children.

            • Theo Sismanides

              and why would that be?

            • Jgg2012

              Kim, would it be a waste of time to ask him where Shelly is?

            • Robert Eckert

              He has had nothing to do with Miscavige’s organization for many years. He is one of the keepers of the flame of the True LRH Teachings before the Miscaviges corrupted them.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Thanks Robert! I was about to say it but I am so tired now.. it’s 4.15 am here. But at least you got it. I hope some more people get it that Scientology (brand name) is not my style and Miscavige needs to be punished for all his crimes against scientologists. I stay true to techniques I saw work and I have nothing against people. I believe the more we communicate the less we argue. We can disagree in a civilised manner.

            • Jgg2012

              Oh. Maybe I should ask where the great LRH didn’t do a better job of choosing a successor.

        • MaxSpaceman

          The ‘being’ that is L. Ron Hubbard had the following to say in “What to Audit” a.k.a. History of Man”

          Many engrams, for example, could be traced back to clams. The clam’s big problem was that there was a conflict between the hinge that wanted to open and the hinge that wanted to close. It was easy to restimulate the engram caused by the defeat of the weaker hinge, Hubbard pronounced, by asking a pre-clear to imagine a clam on a beach opening and closing its shell very rapidly and at the same time making an opening and closing motion with thumb and forefinger. This gesture, he said, would upset large numbers of people.

          “By the way,” L Ron Hubbard warned, “your discussion of these incidents with the uninitiated in Scientology can cause havoc. Should you describe the “clam” to some one [sic], you may restimulate it in him to the extent of causing severe jaw pain. Once such victim, after hearing about a clam death, could not use his jaws for three days.”

          You must have had many days of not being able to use your jaw. Countless, no doubt.

          • Theo Sismanides

            True, many things have been surpassed by more advanced techniques or data. Hubbard never said that openly. He was a master in PR. He had no other choice, I guess. Not that old techniques didn’t work. I have done Dianetics auditing and it did work.

            Hubbard was no god. He made mistakes but overall he created something that makes you feel at this present time interested to communicate about. It’a at least an interesting thing. Depends on the way you look at it and how involved one CAN get.

          • Lurkness

            Curses. I tried that thumb/finger thing and I am really spinning! My jaw is locked too. Help! If only Scientology could save me.

        • Billy Bob

          You need peer review. You need results duplicated by many other auditors. You need an extraordinary amount of evidence before you can be permitted to “put in full application in schools”.

          • Theo Sismanides

            this is why literacy is going down! thanks for your help, anyway!

            • kemist

              I don’t know on which planet “litteracy is going down”, but it certainly isn’t the one I live on.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Right! right! where the hell do you live in? Please come back down to Earth. We may need you.

              http://www.uis.unesco.org/literacy/Pages/data-release-map-2013.aspx

              Here a statistic by Unesco. If I am not mistaken it has Greece in yellow, which means 90%. I think they have another definition of what I mean literacy, I guess.

            • kemist

              It says literacy (the proportion of people who can read) is rising. Which means there is no “decline”.

              Welcome to the real world.

            • Theo Sismanides

              That’s a false stat. My son in the primary school, tremendous problems. Other children, too, mainly boys and sons of immigrants who came to Greece. The overall literacy level of children in my neighbourhood is really down.

              Oh, if we mean literacy that they can read a page in 10 minutes, ok then… that’s literacy. You must always challenge “True data”, “Look, don’t listen” is a better way to go by.

            • kemist

              You are redifining words.

              In the real world, a litterate person is someone who can read, and that is increasing. That some people around you experience difficulty doing it does not change that fact.

              You call this observation “data”. It isn’t data. It’s an anecdote that tells you exactly nothing about a supposed “decline”, just as yesterday’s temperature, on its own, tells you exactly nothing about climate. To be able to use observations as data, they must be done systematically on comparable groups, and assessed with proper statistical tools, which I’m afraid are quite a little bit more complex than linking dots on graphing paper.

              Seriously, you guys calling that “statistics” would probably be some kind of mortal insult to an actual statistician.

            • Theo Sismanides

              kemist, I am not redefining words.

              a. Able to read and write.

              b. Knowledgeable or educated in a particular field or fields.

              Obviously, I had in mind definition #2 and to me if you want to really see it, people should be able to read and understand than just be able to read and write. In any case it’s a matter of what one expects from a literate person.

              Don’t have much time now to discuss your post on statistics, but I do see a point there.

            • kemist

              When it is used for someone knowledgeable in a particular field, it is normally preceded by the name of that field. Eg, scientific litteracy, financial litteracy, legal litteracy, ect.

              But “litteracy”, on it own, normally refers to the fact that someone knows how to read, and that is why it is such an important “stat” for a country. If you say “litteracy is declining”, the sense of urgency which people may feel about it concerns the hardship someone will have to go through when they cannot read, and not because they are ignorant of legal language, the basics of chemistry or have not read french classics from the 19th century.

              That is why the distinction is very important. A declining readership of 19th century french classics does not worry many people and is much harder to sell as a cause than a declining proportion of people who can read, and using that word alone in that context is misleading.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Kemist, absolutely correct and thank you. You very analytically explain the difference in use and thus in meaning of the two definitions. I appreciate that.

              However, there are gradients of “literacy” and “illiteracy” and that is obvious. Do you want to call it “education is declining”, ok let’s call it that. I have two kids, both bright kids and I can tell you that they could be brighter if the educational system didn’t just teach them to read and write (make them “literate”).

              In any case I see your point but I have my doubts as to how much we have improved into Understanding (when I saw that 90% for Greece, I was… WTF????!!! Those stats are worse than those we had in the Sea Org, lol). Because one can read and write a whole bunch but in essence does not get the really important points of something.

              Without any arguing just wanting to point out to you that understanding words and definitions is rather important as otherwise one cannot really get the point discussed much less accept it. Thanks for the discussion though, it’s rather interesting.

            • Lurkness

              Greece has a 97.3% literacy rate for adults and 99.4% for youth according to the handy map at your link.

            • Theo Sismanides

              That’s a false stat. My son in the primary school, tremendous problems. Other children, too, mainly boys and sons of immigrants who came to Greece. The overall literacy level of children in my neighbourhood is really down.

              Oh, if we mean literacy that they can read a page in 10 minutes, ok then… that’s literacy.

        • Lucille Austero

          When you say being, you are talking about the big giant cyst, right?

          • Theo Sismanides

            right, right! you got that right! someone who understands me, finally!

            • Lucille Austero

              Okay. For that you get one upvote!

            • Theo Sismanides

              I am not here for up-votes but thanks. I am here to say, please people, understand that the church is NOT Scientology anymore. It has been taken over. There are hundreds of Scientologists out of the church who are quite ok people and who can help by applying some of those techniques. Please, make that differentiation in your mind from now on. That’s all.

            • Donna Cline Sargent

              I understand what you are trying to say,and I believe most of everyone here does also. I agree that most Scientologist in and out of the “church”are great people.But most everyone here does not agree or believe in the “tech.”You have a rite to believe and they have a rite not to,

            • Theo Sismanides

              Well, thank you. And I have a right to comment when lies are being spread around and I have a right to say what was the lie and maybe I have a right to discuss with people and see why is it that it didn’t work for them.

              I am just going to bed now though, because I think I exerted all of those rights and on top of it I tried to communicate in an appropriate tone level with all the people who wrote to me (good, understanding, indifferent, cynical or nasty) and have some kind of conversation with them. Two way communication. They say, I say or I say, they say. That’s manners, even if someone would write something nasty about me or my philosophy.

              And maybe that’s what’s going to keep up going, our willingness to communicate and be communicated upon a subject that we don’t agree so much about. And maybe someday, we have a chance to sit down and sort things out as Understandings do not just appear on blogs or groups like this. It takes a bit of sweating to make some real Understandings in life. But thanks anyway.

            • Donna Cline Sargent

              Yes its best to agree not to agree and to respect each other without nasty comments.Take care and God Bless.

        • Robert Eckert

          “Tony Ortega, don’t tell me this doesn’t work either” OK, if you won’t let Tony tell you, we’ll tell you. IT DOESN’T WORK. Your communication skills are miserable: it is not just that we disagree with your points, but that you express them so poorly it is often difficult even to figure out WTF you are trying to say.

          • Theo Sismanides

            you sound nasty… how do you look like? Ugly, too? oh my god! So sorry for you. Find something interesting in your life than being nasty, boy.

            • Robert Eckert

              That’s precisely the kind of shit that we are talking about, Theo. Never defend, always attack. Don’t talk about substance, just throw out childish insults. You probably had a sharp mind, once: do you still have the capacity to understand how you appear from the outside, and see what a shell of yourself you have become?

            • Theo Sismanides

              If you also look ugly, you nasty man, I win. Answer the question.

            • Robert Eckert

              You already know how handsome I am. I used my picture as my avatar for years, and you argued with me frequently during those times. Or has Scientology destroyed your memory along with your ability to conduct a rational conversation?

            • Theo Sismanides

              hahaha, so you are handsome but nasty in discussions. Ok, we’ll take that. Keep it up. Time for me to go to bed.

            • Robert Eckert

              Or time for you to wake up.

        • kemist

          Study Dreck works so well that none of its products can understand the most basic science or math. It is the single worst pedagogic method I’ve ever heard of.

          I sincerely hope that crap is never taught in any school in my country.

          • Theo Sismanides

            what is your country?

            • kemist

              Canada.

              No, we don’t need any more scientifically illiterate people, thank you very much. We’ve got one of those dimbulbs as our PM.

            • Theo Sismanides

              whatever, we don’t have to fight over ALL things. And I don’t have to argue all the way. The point is that we are in this and I am against the ways of the church and its abuses and mainly those of tyrant Miscavige. We can agree on that. Let’s live the subject of scientology out because I don’t know how much each one here really and honestly knows about it. Thanks.

            • kemist

              The thing you have to realise is that the subject of scientology created Miscavige’s church. Stop searching for unlikely excuses that sound like conspiracy theory, and like Hubbard says, just look. Or as we scientists like to say, apply a bit of Occam’s razor.

              Would you not agree that some things don’t fit with what you’ve been told to believe ? If Hubbard knew so much about the human mind, how come he did not see that psychopath for what he is ? If study tech is so great, why do scientology schools consistently score at the bottom of the ranks of US schools, even though they should not since they do not take clientele from impoverished areas ?

              These things do not mean that you did not feel better applying some of the things you learned there. But they do mean that some of the things Hubbard said, especially in the domains of science, education, and the human mind, are just plain false. It’s not a matter of belief, or “what’s true for you”. They’re false, because while you’re entitled to your opinions, you can’t make up your own facts.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Look at what? What is it that you tell me to look at? Don’t you think I am looking?

              You may think that someone just says something without having looked because your perspective and his do not jive.

              “Some things don’t fit with what you’ve been told to believe”

              first of all one, in Scientology, is not told to believe. One sees for himself. I am sorry that the church made it like any other church, a belief system. I am out of it.

              Hubbard did not have to know everything. And then it’s the fate of the human race to have dictators over it. I take this rather stoically now and just looking at it as a fact. Humans tend to want bosses and rulers. So, it’s time for some (other than Hubbard) to take a stand and do something about it. And let me tell you that Miscavige is one of many dictators and tyrants. Actually, you will be amazed if you got to know one of those rulers how cruel they could be. All that power makes them feel godly but I would say they are mostly devil-ly! Look at the world and the mess it is. If you are happy with it is ok with me. But I am not. And I feel that all those people, the rulers are there to oppress and control. There are exceptions but those are a few and have no real power.

              Which scientology schools are you referring too? I am not referring to scientology schools. I am referring to study tech as a subject to be taught as a method for one to go on improving his study skills.

              For example you mention Occam’s razor. I have to look it up as I do not remember the term. I had seen it a while ago but I have to review it. See, this is an MU for me. That’s all. If I don’t clear it I am not getting the point fully.

              There is no antagonism in what Scientology is doing and what Man is trying to achieve. Better understanding. That we have so different and opposite views, still we can talk and communicate is the proof that Man wants to understand. I am more interested in science now since i study a bit of math and physics trying to help my children. I have less MUs. When I was young I couldn’t grasp math so easily as it was a foggy area. I didn’t have much Mass (as we call the second barrier to study), like the object itself or an idea about it.

              For example when you say cubic meter one should have an idea of a cubic meter (about) in his mind. A thousand square meters should be an area of 100 m. long X 10 m. wide. I had this confused when I was young. Nobody taught me to THINK with such words and find what it is exactly.

              So, now on my gradient I am going back, revisiting those subjects, at ease, (I don’t have to sit for a test, lol) and I can enjoy understanding them.

              Now, you throw in a lot of generalities about Hubbard. I would like to ask you how much have you studied his books and listened to his lectures.

              I am not saying Hubbard was perfect but his system is a comprehensive study of the human mind and even more interestingly the human spirit. Which is a taboo to be talked about, much less to be studied, on this planet. Why is that? Have you ever considered this? How come Scientology is not being talked about in Universities openly? And how come there are no discussions about such things or even whole areas in Universities where such things can be studied. No, bro, you are just a body. That’s all you are and one day you are going to die, too. That’s all there is to it. I don’t call that Science. I call it Biased Science, thus, not Science because Science comes from Scio which means to cut throw and know from the inside. Not just the outside.

            • kemist

              Those scientology schools I’m referring to use Hubbard’s study tech… And as a consequence, their students generally fail, and those that graduate rarely if ever get admitted in a legit college. If that is not a red flag for you about the efficacy of this nonsense, I don’t know what is.

              I know I would have been extremely limited and frustrated as a child (and would probably have been driven into uncontrollable rage as an adult) by such a system which seems to do everything in its power to slow you down and discourage abstract thought. I can’t imagine how one can acquire any higher math or science with it. Hubbard himself failed intro to calculus, and people educated in scientology as children seem to have a stunted understanding of math. It’s a testament to their inborn intelligence when they can grasp quadratic equations despite this system, so don’t even think of things like advanced calculus.

              Hubbard is not taught in universities (except as a sci-fi writer or in cult studies) because, and I’m sorry to disappoint you, what he did is not science, in any of its aspects. It’s what we call cargo cult science, something that has the outward appearence of it on the outside, but a non-functioning inside. To function as a science, a subject has to use the scientific method. You can look up what that is. Nowhere does Hubbard do this.

              Even worse, he lies. Repeatedly. Lies are the closest thing to a sin in science, since they mean data is not accurate, and therefore any conclusion you may have made from it is unreliable. Lying about data in science is very rarely forgiven. Those scientists who dare do it and are found out generally destroy their careers.

              Another essential aspect is peer review. Hubbard never submitted any data for this, just claims. But in science, claims are worth exactly nothing without the data to back it up. When independant researchers tested those claims, like the existence of engrams as Hubbard described them, they found them lacking. Since the whole theory was dependant on the existence of those elusive things, it could be thrown out right there with other failed theories.

              In over 60 years, the whole subject has produced nothing nothing noticeable in the real world beyond bankruptcies, destroyed families and an inordinate amount of lawsuits. Its adherents are not smarter than the rest of us in any significant way. They do not display any unusual powers. They suffer from the same illnesses and failings as the rest of us. Ok, you felt better, and you learned to use a dictionary, but those are things that you could have done with any of a plethora of less expensive methods. Why should this thing be given any space in universities ?

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Like many others, Marty is on the journey out of mind manipulation and has thankfully realized that LRH tech is not the answer. Sorry Theo, but it doesn’t work. If it did, OTs would be using powers in the real world – and I see no evidence of that.

      • Theo Sismanides

        I don’t care about OTs I care about results in what I have been doing and the basics of Scientology which you obviously are unaware of.

        • scottmercer

          Anecdotes are not evidence. Glad you had fun.

          • Theo Sismanides

            You call them anecdotes, I call them my personal experience and others do too?

            Why do you think a damn arse like Miscavige can reign a whole church? a) because he is a master tyrant and PR man and b) because all those people (THOUSANDS) have benefitted from Hubbard’s techniques aka “The Tech”.

            Are all of their stories anecdotes?

            • Scream Nevermore

              Yes, they are.

            • kemist

              The plural of anecdote, or stories, isn’t data.

              Sorry.

            • Theo Sismanides

              You guys, are so disbelievers. Only a second coming would make you believe. Are you guys Christians or what?

            • kemist

              No.

              I don’t believe in anything beyond its confidence interval.

              Sorry.

            • Theo Sismanides

              confidence interval? See, now this is an MU for me. I can’t understand it. If you could please explain.

            • Robert Eckert

              It’s from the theory of probability and statistics, which deals with the question of how you cope with incomplete information: what do you accept or reject when absolute certainty is unattainable? It is a major hole in your education.

            • kemist

              In statistics, a confidence interval is the range of values for which a probabilistic event has a certain chance of happening.

              Hubbard tried to convince you that you were doing statistics, but that is not the case, Theo. It’s actually a fascinating subject with applications in many fields like chemistry, biology and physics. You should give it a try.

            • Theo Sismanides

              I don’t doubt it. Actually, I am trying to figure out what a confidence interval is… but I think I kind of got it, though now I am lacking some “mass” on it, as we say in Scientology. Mass meaning the actual thing one is studying. Yet, I can have an idea about it but you see that is not being clear on the term, by far.

              I know Statistics must have quite some breadth and depth to it and it surely must be fascinating.

              In an age where reasoning is kind of getting either too specialised (and thus scattered and developed at incredible speed) or lowering (see, my idea of high reasoning cannot be found, with all due respect, in positive sciences as they supposedly were developed to serve Man, but in more philosophical subjects, which unfortunately have lost most of their reasoning too and are mostly opinions or postulates), so in such an age it’s hard to find how to go about to move into further progressive (gradient) understandings. Like when you walk you move step by step. But anyhow, I appreciate the talks and the explanations are it’s really good to clear up (or at least get an idea of) terms which are more scientific, though I cannot claim to have a coherent and workable understanding of positive sciences. In any case, thanks again.

            • Theo Sismanides

              So, now that I can understand a bit better what you were phrasing here, what do you think is the confidence interval of the probability that Man is a spiritual being….! (that’s a question in a playful and joyous mood, finally I can understand what you are saying).

            • Donna Cline Sargent

              Yes I am

            • Theo Sismanides

              Good for you!

            • Donna Cline Sargent

              thank you :)

            • KNMF

              If scientologists benefited from Hubbard’s tech, why don’t they throw out Miscavige? How can this guy ride herd over all these beneficiaries of Scientology tech?
              Could Hubbard’s tech contain controls? Obviously his policy did. KRs and sec checks and so forth and so on.

              You believe Hubbard was a brilliant person who researched and developed invaluable tech for humanity. Do you think Hubbard was smart enough to corral a bunch of folks, con them, and become filthy rich, if he wanted to?

            • Theo Sismanides

              That’s the most important question. And it’s the question I have a hard time to answer. thanks for this one though. It’s really the 1.000.000 dollar question.

              No controls worked whatsoever. Now there is this Documentary. Now, people come out saying about the abuses. But still I don’t know if this is gonna work.

              Maybe it’s the fate of this planet KNMF and I am not joking or being cynical. Maybe after a while anything good gets in the hands of evil people.

              Hubbard was rich enough. But he kept writing and doing things. If he wanted to con people he would have taken the money and gone, long before he died. I think he stayed true to his goals, though I have to admit he was a peculiar man. It’s difficult to explain as what he did, to be appreciated, must be studied for some time to be digested. That’s my estimation.

              BUt thanks for the question. It looks like Man tends to be a slave to Suppression and Power. It looks like he is too afraid to stand up against such things all by himself. It looks like we have no heroes on this planet anymore. Really, where did all the heroes gone?

            • KNMF

              Hubbard’s controls work to different degrees with various people. The documentary and the book upon which it’s based are from never-ins Wright and Gibney who had stellar careers built on nothing to do with Scientology..
              They questioned Hubbard and found there was zip, nada to back up his claims. A quick look at what Hubbard left behind reveals a hot mess per capita. I think that even you would admit that Hubbard lied frequently.

              I still have a hero (kind of) in Bob Dylan. And one of the reasons is that he doesn’t want to be my hero or spokesman of a generation. He doesn’t want me to have a bust of him or to get inside my mind. The times he’s acted like a fool I have no problem pointing and laughing at him. There’s not a sec-check to catch my evil intentions regarding Bob Dylan, devised by Bob Dylan. And he’s a great writer.

              Look at that garbage “music” Hubbard made. It’s somewhere on this page. He made it just for you. I’m surprised your intelligence isn’t insulted. At least he didn’t completely ruin you yet, he just left you confused.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Thanks for all your evaluations… hahaha. No, I am not ruined yet. I am confused as to how far south this world needs to go down. Bob Dylan… One more cup of coffee before I go… But I feel like the Hurricane…

            • KNMF

              The world will go down. No guy is going to come along and save society, nor will the guy’s followers. If you were awake you’d see that Hubbard left a legacy of confusion and no solution. Good luck.

        • KNMF

          It isn’t likely that any man however dedicated, could develop a system that convinced you that you were super free, while at the same time tricking you and containing you within his system.

          I mean, that would require hours of training and repetition and mind control tech, and who would sit still for that? Not you.

          • Theo Sismanides

            I honestly don’t get you. Sorry.

            • KNMF

              That’s ok. Look at my first sentence. It’s long, but you don’t have to be a code-breaker.
              Try to make sense of it. Challenge yourself. Do you agree with it?

            • Theo Sismanides

              i get the first sentence. Yes, it’s likely but then you have to see what you see. If you don’t say you see what you see, I am afraid you have lost it. When you win, say I won. When you lose, say I lost. That’s the only way. And in this case, why should I say I was tricked when I got what I came in for: Understandings?

              Why? To look amiable to others? I say what I feel and experienced. That others didn’t is their thing and life. And Understandings. Scientology is a very disciplined thing. Not everybody can audit with an e-meter right off the butt. It takes quite some understandings before one can get something going with it.

            • KNMF

              So you say that it is likely that a dedicated man could develop said system that traps you while simultaneously convincing you that you’re free?

            • Theo Sismanides

              Yes, it happens. The problem is that those who say they are TRAPPED they were REALLY TRAPPED. Because they didn’t get what they were supposed to get in the first place. It’s very tough to keep moving up and THEY think if they are going to pay 1.000.000 dollars they are going to be free. Now, borrowing from a bank to pay for your auditing is a bad way (the church constantly did this) to buy freedom. You buy freedom by reading something useful and being able to apply it to yourself and others. That’s some freedom. You know what to do if the problems start. You are more free than others. But just paying for a course or auditing and DEMANDING for the UNDERSTANDINGS to be shoved down your throat won’t do the thing.

              I have seen happen so many times. People paid big time but they didn’t get what they were supposed to get. Or then they assigned all responsibility to somebody else to do the thing for them. And then they blame that other one, be it a person, or a group, or a church.

              I worked through things. It’s not the same as just paying. An auditor not just works but undergoes the test of Did it work? That’s even harder. If no results nobody is gonna go to him to be audited.

              So, there is many things to this Trap thing. And to this Freedom thing. One says I am free and he isn’t really. Or says I am not trapped but he is. You think the same for me. And it may very well be. But then what’s freedom? Who’s free? Tell me who’s free? And is loyalty (a word that is non existent except in the army and big corporations nowadays) a trap?

              We live in a cynical world. Traps and Freedoms are intermingled and not really understood. The point is DID YOU FIND WHAT YOU WANTED IN LIFE? And are you feeling alright with yourself? Our conscience haunts us and it will haunt as for eternity if we don’t keep true to ourselves. The real ourselves.

              So, people would rather not go into things too much because they may wake up and feel guilt. That’s a start, though. To feel guilty for what you did and mostly for what you didn’t manage to do.

              And one thing I fight for is to get Miscavige exposed and get him ousted from Scientology. Because he has done more harm than anyone can think. Scientology is not dangerous or vengeful. It is made to be by some monsters like Miscavige. Of course, there are other monsters outside Scientology who would gladly see it succumb and go to pieces.

              Look at the world today. It’s a mad house. Wars, famine even now, fights and all that stuff. It’s a mad house. I don’t need to go mad, too. I can do my best to alert others as to their responsibilities, too and never relax on that. But I am not the only only creating this mess. As a matter of fact, I chose not to participate in that pathetic game, called Life on Planet Earth some time ago. I have my own universe and it feels ok. I can see the universes of others and have discourse with them. I can see where they are coming from. Are they coming nasty or are they coming with a curious mind? I can deal with both in different ways because that’s the way they should be dealt with. A child coming to you asking for something is quite different from a thief coming to you asking for your purse.

              I hope one day, someone(s) will have enough (reasoning) powers to affect things on this planet for the better. Until them, I pretend to be free in a world which has gone mad. I am looking for the way out not just for me but for other too. Not because I am a coward but because this is my Right:

              The two rights of a thetan.

              1) The right to his own sanity
              2) The right to leave a game.

              Goodnight.

            • KNMF

              Goodnight. Sweet dreams in Ron’s yard.

            • Theo Sismanides

              Nah, I have my own.. I don’t need his or anyone’s. I have my own… thanks, anyway.

            • KNMF

              yours is in his. But there’s hope for you outside the cult. good luck.

            • Robert Eckert

              “Not everybody can audit with an e-meter right off the butt.” I have to grant you that one, Theo!

    • shasha40

      It’s a virus , virulent strain I understand . Tick , tock tiny one …

    • RBE

      • Lucille Austero

        OMG this is so funny!

    • Mark

      ITMA

      • Scream Nevermore

        Wish he’d just bore off elsewhere. He gives me bad headaches!

        • Mark

          D’you remember who had the pooper-scooper last, Scream?

          • Scream Nevermore

            I’m sure I have a spare!

          • kemist

            Is that it ?

      • RBE

        I think Theo would have preferred you say ITTA, after all the body is only temporal

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    I wonder if Dave is worried about how he’s been treating his whales lately?

    Let’s hope the American people care just as much about innocent human beings as they do about whales – and fire up our legislators to induce a federal lawsuit about how scientology deceives its customers about the treatment of its children. Just sayin’.

    “A new federal lawsuit against SeaWorld alleges the company has deceived customers about treatment of its whales.”

    http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/os-seaworld-customer-lawsuit-20150325-story.html

    • Robert Eckert

      Scientology has also mistreated its whales. Surprisingly, none of the whales have bitten any of the handlers yet, as far as we know.

  • Tory Christman

    ““What I was actually doing was asking people to tell me how Scientology
    had harmed them, and then they had the freedom to talk about things they
    had always been afraid to say while they were in the church.” What a fantastic question, Marty! As much as I’ve talked about my experiences, I had never looked at it *that* way. Thank you for mentioning this. And thank you, Tony—for doing something on each person. People are getting *very* excited!

    One of my friend’s went Saturday night to the Archlight, and he told me he and his wife had to sit in the 2nd row. The entire theater was FILLED UP. :) Tick Tock……<3 To ALL Tory/Magoo

    • sugarplumfairy

      The show I went to last Thursday at Lincoln Center was full, and there were maybe a dozen people standing..

      • shasha40

        That’s music to my eyes . :)

      • http://www.davekonig.com/ davek

        The showing I went to at Lincoln Center was so full they had to add an extra screening just for body thetans.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Fabulous.

    • Observer

      Captain Miscavige must be frothing at the mouth.

      • Tory Christman

        He’s only a “Captain” on Halloween :)

    • NOLAGirl

      Tory, if we ever get to meet in person, will it be weird for me to ask you for your autograph? :)

      • Missionary Kid

        I can’t really speak for her, but Tory has said she is a bit sensitive about adulation, as I understand it, because OSA accused that her activities were solely to gain a following, which was, of course, a total lie.

        I can imagine you’ll get a beautiful hug from her. If she answers, she can correct me.

        • Tory Christman

          I’m good on hugs, autographs, fun, and laughs. Just don’t call me “honey” or “dear”. :)
          LOL…..I don’t suggest you try doing it just to find out why not. :) Yesterday a man
          sent me a PM about “Tory my love”. I said “I’m not your love, I’ve never even met you”.
          He said “Ok, dear”. You get the picture. :)

          • Donna Cline Sargent

            hahahaha

      • Stephanie Loving

        Oh gosh I’d ask for Tory’s autograph asap if I ever had the great fortune to meet her in person. I’d like to have everyone sign the cover of my copy of Going Clear!

        • Tory Christman

          That’s a great idea! We should have a party and ALL sign “Going Clear” and then send one to Alex, and One to Lawrence. Now…where shall we meet? :)

          • Stephanie Loving

            what a kick that would be … if I had a plane like Tom and John … I’d scoop us all up and fly us to our own SP convention ;o) Keep on keeping on Ms. Tory!!

      • Tory Christman

        Naw…I’m fine on that if it’s s/t you’d like. The funniest on autographs was Mark Bunker
        meeting Anonymous in Washington, D.C. OMG! Girls asked him to “Sign my T-shirt” etc.
        It was funny and cute both :) I hope we get to meet, NOLAGIRL :)

      • StudentOfLife

        I got to observe Tory and other Bunkerites at the Arclight and when she sat down, I clapped the loudest as many cheered her presence. As a never in, I have had to take time to decompress as Provo suggested I allow to let my anger pass. I let others take her time because I am a newbie to the Bunker and I realized many of us will meet fairly soon when we gather to witness the emptying out of the cult’s buildings in Hollywood by the authorities as their properties are seized as the government take action to auction them off to eventually repay many of the most devastated families whose fortunes were taken under false pretense. I can dream, can’t I? I believe the coming tidal wave will begin after this Sunday. All of us should email our friends to watch this HBO documentary. Let the monsoon to destroy the four foot thirteen psychopath Miscavige begin.

        • NOLAGirl

          You lost me at “properties are seized” I started daydreaming immediately of FBI agents, and tiny Miscavige prison suits. lol

          I’m kidding, I appreciate what you’re saying and I’m so happy you got to see it in a theater. I cannot wait for Sunday night. :)

    • chukicita

      That’s awesome! Freedom’s Twitter account is dripping with desperation – they claimed that no one was showing up to the theater showings. I got screen shots.

      • Tory Christman

        What is *really* awesome is what I just posted: $cientology has now taken down ALL of their moronic, creepy videos (Showing the documentary IS correct and true). Too late, “dave”…you blew it ONE MORE TIME::::: EPIC FAIL!!! :) SPs RULE!! :) Love you ALL :)

        • Missionary Kid

          Either they’re reloading with new ones, or they actually figured out that they were helping Going Clear.

          It’s a bit late for them to change. DM’s brilliant strategy has already done a huge amount of damage, not for the SPs, but for $cientology.

          • Tory Christman

            100% “DM’s brilliant strategy has already done a huge amount of damage, not for the SPs, but for $cientology.” AMEN Missionary Kid :)

          • splog

            I shudder to think of the huge damage DM did to the closest poor sucker when the realization that HIS ads were backfiring finally permeated his thick skull

            • Missionary Kid

              I’m sure that he’ll blame someone else. He’s never wrong.

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          I love you Tory!! I just looked up Mike R and Alex G and you are correct – no longer does the smear video show up in the search results. But didn’t that happen for a short time last week? Maybe they forgot to pay their Google Ad bills?

        • chukicita

          Tory, I just went to freedommag dot org (so you don’t have to) and I still saw the Gibney film there as well as Rinder’s – didn’t look any further. They are also still linking to it on their Twitter account.

          • Tory Christman

            Yes…they have *an* article about Alex and Lawrence and Going Clear.
            BUT—their TONS of Videos are NOT on the main page as they have been.
            That’s my point. :)

          • Tory Christman

            Yup…it’s there….but MUCH Different to find. Yesterday, and for days, ALL of the videos were on the left, and featured was more of their BS about “Going Clear”. If you typed in “Going Clear” In Google: THE 1st WED SITE was their FREEDUMB magazine web site.
            Now that has changed. IF the FM hadn’t changed, I’d agree—they ran out of money.
            A) You KNOW *that* isn’t true.
            and
            B) They DID change FM.
            SO? HAHA HAHAHAHA….nice try “dave” but Epic FAIL Still. :)

            • chukicita

              You’re right – it IS different, and evidently their Google campaign is over. However, the videos are still there – they haven’t been taken down completely.

            • Tory Christman

              Correct :) They’ll be back…they always are. And that’s great for us, super bad
              for them. And THAT is a lesson they CANNOT Learn. :)

  • Observer

    I bet the Argentinian Scientologists are hard at work slapping their own documentary together. And what better subject than their greatest victory?

    refresh
    .

    • Mark

      Hate to be pedantic, Obs, but after I got told off by Vaquera: it should be “nuestra” (victoria is f.) and “el primer” (programa is m.) 😉

      • Observer

        Blame Google Translate. Programa is female, though–the masculine ending is o.

        • Mark

          Google Translate’s wrong; my Spanish dictionary (hastily retrieved after the Vaquera débâcle) firmly ascribes it the masculine gender. “Programo” is the 1st person singular of “programar”, to schedule or plan.

          • Observer

            My high school Spanish was a *very* long time ago. Sigh. I can still count to 100 though.

            • Donna Cline Sargent

              I went to first grade at Docters Inlet(spelling) in Florida.My teachers name was Mrs.Channel,and I learned the Pledge of Allegiance in Spanish and still remember it. lol Isn’t it weird how you can remember somethings and not others. :) ha

          • Vaquera

            It Wasn’t Me! :-(

            • Mark

              See above :)

            • Vaquera

              Whew. I don’t have the cojones to tell someone off.

      • Observer

        I blame Google Translate. I don’t think programa is masculine though, otherwise it would be programo. Unless it’s one of those weird exceptions.

      • Vaquera

        Twasn’t me!!!! I’m a fracophile.

        • Mark

          Sorry, Vaquera: it was Valshifter. Either I’m getting senile, or it’s long past time I was in bed… 😉

          • Vaquera

            xoxo

      • Robert Eckert

        You think the Argentine Scientologists are any less guilty of solecisms in Spanish than the American Scientologists are in English?

        • Mark

          ¡Ajá! el misterio está resuelto! 😉

    • edge

      Midnight? Will some poor Argentine Sci get pulled in ethics if they find out he didn’t stay up and watch?

      • Observer

        Always. There’s gold in them there sec checks!

  • Doug Parent

    I wish to make the same point here that I did on Mike Rinders Blog today that I think bears repeating. In Scientology there is a policy regarding “Knowledge reports” and a Scientologist is obligated to write up and send in reports when they see instances of Scientology rules being violated. One of such rules dictates that one cannot support or be in communication with a declared SP without risk being declared an SP themselves. Jennifer Lopez’s father is a Scientologist in good standing (one would assume) yet he is condoning his daughters ongoing support and friendship of Leah Remini, a declared SP according to David Miscavige. Supporting a declared SP (giving friendship or support in ANY way) is a SUPPRESSIVE ACT unto itself. Per policy, David Lopez should write up his “out-ethics” essentially turn himself in, for not rigorously applying Scientology rules regarding SUPPRESSIVE ACTS. (written by L Ron Hubbard) Furthermore, in accordance with the practices at the Flag land base in Clearwater Florida, the “ethics officers” have been telling people to disconnect from literally anyone, including family members (no matter how far removed) for having any INDIRECT association with a “SP”. This means that if David Lopez had ANY association with ANY Scientologist, THEY would be obligated to disconnect from HIM since HE has not disconnected from Jennifer who has not disconnected from Leah. This sounds like madness to a Scientologist who has not been “on lines” for awhile but regardless, this is what has happened at “Flag” the “Mecca” of all of Scientology. This practice of indirect-guilty-by-2nd or 3rd hand-association or by virtue of contact through a Non-Scientologist to a “SP’ is a current practice that has morphed from a bad policy to extreme idiocy.

    • Missionary Kid

      Face it. Every policy in $cientology may be stated as one thing, but the actual application of that policy doesn’t depend on the policy, but on the whims of the person at the top as well as the motives of the person who is above others.

      Money trumps everything and anything In $cientology. What does KSW really mean? At one time, it meant doing what LRH wanted. It now means doing what DM wants.

      • Doug Parent

        I have faced it and accepted it, it’s one of many reasons I left. Hopefully others will as well.

        • Missionary Kid

          AMEN!

  • Super Power Wogsy

    New Mantra: Stop feeding the Indies.

  • Tory Christman

    OMG!! Great news Tony and Bunkerites!! My friend just pointed out to me that their creepy videos about each person in the documentary is GONE from GOOGLE. I checked: He’s right! Here’s my post on FB:

    Hollllllllly Sheet!! Social Media Rocks C of $’s world, again. They ($cientology) took down ALL of their
    creepy videos filled with lies about each person and then some, as well
    as Alex Gibney and Lawrence Wright! Keep up the great work, one and ALL! Thank you to Tony and ALL here, too!! Thursday at 2:00? Freedom Magazine (really FreeDUMB magazine) has now proven “SPs RULE” :) Love to ALL! Tory/Magoo

    • Observer

      Too little, too late. They were up long enough that they made a real impression on tens of thousands if not millions of people.

      • Tory Christman

        I just typed that while u posted this! “Too late, “dave” EPIC FAIL, AGAIN!! SPs RULE :)

        • Observer

          It’s our SP ARC!

      • KNMF

        and almost all of them unsubscribed from HBO who is now headed straight for bankruptcy, but may be bailed out at 11th hour by, wait for it….

    • Mrs. V.

      Excuse the all caps and exclamation points, but I have no other way to express myself: HURRAY!!!!

      • Tory Christman

        ME TOO :) !!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Great. Do you know if sci took them down or Google took them down?

      • squirrel

        If I google Going Clear, there’s still a bunch of WhoIs_____? Videos. All still up.

        • Tory Christman

          Before if you just typed in “Going Clear”….TONS of awful videos filled with lies are
          G O N E. There are around…but harder to find. HA HA ‘dave” EPIC FAIL!

          • squirrel

            The ARE awful, and the ARE filled with lies, and it would suck to be the subject of one of these films. They are also still up, and on FM in exactly the same spot they’ve been in for weeks.

            That said, the outside world got a chance to see firsthand what kind of “Church” Sciemtology is. Those videos up and owned and claimed by the church verify the allegations the book and movie make. The people who barely know anything about scientology are now talking about these obscure bizzare church revenge videos.

            It’s one way to further cut off the supply of new bodies in the shop. I say let sciemtology show the media exactly who they are and what they’ll do to their “parishomers.”

            • Tory Christman

              Exactly! I’m happy they made them and put them up, as it SHOWS *exactly* who they are, really, and proves what is said in the documentary is spot on.

              I just think it’s funny that now, a few days before it airs on HBO—suddenly their creepy videos are harder to find. They’re not the same place they were. But hey, we can agree to disagree. :) Either way, those cards have been played, they have been copied, and no doubt they’ll continue sliming people as THAT IS WHAT THEY DO.

              Have they taken down their FLAT OUT LIES ON “ReligiousFreedomWatch”? HELL NO.
              So thanks for proving you DO continue to do Fair Game, “dave” and Scios “in” no matter how hard you try to scream you do not.

        • squirrel

          Still all discredited sources at FM.

      • Tory Christman

        Not sure….but my guess is Scientology as if you look at Freedom Magazine…they’re GONE there!

        • Jo

          There still posted on freedumb site, just checked it :(

          • Tory Christman

            Yes….but they are NOT as prominent as they used to be as of yesterday.

            • squirrel

              They are in exactly the same spot.

            • Tory Christman

              I won’t keep arguing with you…but as of yesterday, their entire page was different than it is today: PERIOD. Those videos are *not* in exactly the same spot.

            • April Moonlight

              Here’s the thing: Google searches are not the same for everyone. A person can type in the exact same thing (search words) and get different results, depending on certain factors, such as what part of the country they live in. If they live outside of the U.S. of course it is even more divergent. I was part of a group that did extensive research and testing on this. I agree with Tory that Scn may have changed their placement of the videos and/or discontinued paid ads for certain regions at specific times, and also agree with the posters who say that they still see the ads, as searches do not yield the same results across the board to all areas.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          I thought I ffelt the earth move today. Whoohoo! Thanks for bringing the good news!

        • edge

          They are still on Freedom’s website if you click the “discredited sources” sidebar. But yeah, they don’t show up on a Google search. Can someone check youtube if they still show up as the top search hits? Those top hits are often paid/sponsored so if they’re not in the top spot maybe someone with brains figured out that the videos, if anything, were doing more to promote the film. Wordclear Streisand Effect!

          • Anonymous

            It’s a mixed bag… when some names are searched (Marty Rathbun, Mike Rinder) on Google the normal Scientology sponsored ads at the top of the page are not currently running (as of ~ 9:00PM EST.)

            But a search on “Alex Gibney Going Clear” still shows ads are running at present.

            It is probably a $$$ issue as Scientology has bid up the cost of certain keywords, which means the AdWords accounts are probably maxing out their allotted spend, which causes the ads to automatically shut off for a period.

            It could also be a tactical shift by church…this assumes they are capable of learning anything…and that they realize their ads / videos are actually making things worse in terms of 1) validating one of the central themes of the documentary [that Scientology harasses former members] and 2) the attacks ads are a curiosity for otherwise uninterested wogs and a not insignificant number of those previously uninterested wogs will now be watch the documentary when in shows on HBO at 8pm EST this Sunday.

            • Tory Christman

              As Alex himself said: “I didn’t think they’d spend $250,000 to promote my film”.
              :)
              Oh yeah!

      • Science Doc

        By this point someone got an attorney to send a demand letter. Monique could probably get Davy to understand he didn’t want to be deposed.

    • Baby

      NO WAY.. OMG Tory.. That is hysterical.. I swear to God.. YOU CAN NOT MAKE THIS SHIT UP.. can’t wait for Sunday… HBO BABY.. xoxoxooxx You keep up the good work too..

      SPS RULE.. Yippee.. I would love to be a fly on the wall during THAT foot bullet…hahahhaha

      • Mrs. V.

        Miscavige has one holy foot, that’s for sure.

        • One Human

          it also keeps relighting like a trick birthday candle.

      • Donna Cline Sargent

        there were a couple aticles today about how awful freedung mag is. one about did Alex Gibney get threatened by the church of scientology on twitter,they called the number on the tweet to talk to ppl at freedomethics for a comment about the threat. i wish i new how to put up links. its on my yahoo home page and the article is International Business Times. the other one was posted here earlier in the day.

        • aegerprimo

          This is just one of the articles that will be posted on my Co$ Bad Press threads at ESMB, WWP, OCMB, RFTTP, ESK. Bookmark this page in case you miss my comment at the end of the month with links to the list for March. Our beloved Bunkeroo – Miss Tia – is hosting this page…

          http://misstia.com/badpresslobby.html

        • Lurkness

          FYI. When you are at the page you want to link, go to the address for that address (the http://) and copy the address/link by right clicking when you have it highlighted and select copy. You then paste it in your comment here.

          • Donna Cline Sargent

            thank you,but i understand scio garble better than i got that lol

      • NOLAGirl
        • Baby

          thanks honi xo

    • mockingbird

      They are screwed !!!!Far too many who speak out know the tactics they employ and can show court records and the Liar Ron Hubbard’s own doctrine saying all the same old methods they use !!! Without being able to use “the only way to control people ” according to Hubbard – lying – how are they going to be able to do anything but face the truth ? They already put up the videos and have pressured press and put out lies on social media – that is not going away !!! Maximum footbullet time !!! DM may be crossing the event horizon into total oblivion !!!!

    • Eivol Ekdal

      I just looked at their Youtube page, they currently have 17 uploaded videos. It might be that case that they ran out of Google Ad credit and Google has stopped promoting their content (until they pay for the next round).

      • Vaquera

        Facts are wonderful things, but they can be a buzz-kill. Thx for that vantage point.

        • Eivol Ekdal

          Sorry
          :-(

          • Vaquera

            No worries. I’m a pragmatist.

        • Eivol Ekdal

          Here are some facts that are not a buzz kill, this guy Zac did a great job of taking apart a Freedom vid. (forgive me if it was already posted earlier this week)
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4_0NzZdaKQ

          • Tory Christman

            That was one of THE best videos, taking it apart…you are right, Eivol E :) Thanks for
            re-posting that one!

          • Tracy Schmitz

            ABSOLUTELY MIND BLOWING RIDICULOUS! 1) did and does gibney say that the entire compound is a prison camp? NO, of course not and 2) anyone and everyone who has half a brain and some intelligence would easily see, recognize and know “so what if a organization, company, religion, government, has “beautiful nice facilities!’ DOES THAT MAKE THEM UTTERLY PERFECT, GOOD, LEGAL, PROPER? of course not, i’m sure the nazi’s and hitler had beautiful facilities. i’m sure other dictators, leaders of organized crime have beautiful surroundings and amenities! beyond stupid “point!”…

      • Tory Christman

        True, but they’re also NOT pitched as they were as of yesterday on their FreeDUMB magazine.
        So my guess is they *thought* they could pressure HBO into NOT doing it. (Which they’ve been working on, I’m sure).

        Now that ~~that~~ failed, uh oh—“better get those GD videos off the main drag and start pitching how happy we all are as a church F*** NOW!” Says “dave”…the wolf in Dracula clothing. EF “dave”…EF.

        “dave” What is EP? (sweat pouring off his brow)??

        EPIC FAIL!! (grin)
        Happy Wednesday, “dave”….Tory/Magoo
        PS: Don’t say I didn’t warn ya…don’t say we ALL did not warn you for years!

        • aegerprimo

          Tick tock tickety tick tick tock !!!!

        • PappeKak

          I like it! Epic Phail

        • One Human

          The Miscavige Effect=The Streisand Effect x 47!!

    • Donna Cline Sargent

      when i google Marty,it goes rite to his site,no freedung mag. or any other smear. ha maybe all the articles about how awful they are scared ol davy.

      • Tory Christman

        Exactly! But for days if you typed in Marty—it did not go to his site, it went to these
        “black pr” Utter failures they made of each person, Marty included. HA HA HA OSA…
        TOOOOOOOOOOOOOO LATE! We saw, we copied: Noted: You ARE a mafia-like
        organization pretending to be a “church”. Tory/Magoo~ Ex-Scientologist after 30 years
        “in”, escaped out in July of 2000, speaking out for 14 years happily and FREE :)

        • Donna Cline Sargent

          you are rite,every time i google him or Mike I always read before clicking to make sure I don’t end up on their sites.(cuz I have accidentally done it)

    • Juicer77

      Wow, that is big news. Thanks for the update!

    • Lurkness

      Tory, they are still there at FreeDumb’s site, they just changed the front page. Looks like they have a new edition of FreeDumb, but the Gibney/HBO/SP expose is still just a click away from the front page.

      • Robert Eckert

        I think she means the Google ads which used to pop up whenever you were looking for info about Gibney, Rathbun, etc.

        • Donna Cline Sargent

          exactly :)

        • Tory Christman

          Also on FreeDUMB magazine. Until today—-if you typed in “Going Clear” BOOM! Up came pages in Google of crap from their videos. #1 on GOOGLE for Going Clear, for days, has been THEIR FreeDUMB MAGAZINE and it’s lies.
          Now—Ok, the videos are still there, but 1) If you type in “Going Clear” In Google, now it comes up factual sites about it. Maybe they ran out of ad money, which they often do.

          b) But also, THEY did change their main page of FM (FreeDUMB magazine).
          Smiling :) TT TT

          • Robert Eckert

            If they changed the Freedumb front page simultaneously with the Google ads disappearing, then it must have been a decision from the top to abandon the Google ads, rather than as I thought was a possibility, that maybe Google had had enough and decided they couldn’t have those spots anymore.

            • Free Minds, Free Hearts

              Well, the ads are back. It is kind of like Jason in the Halloween movies.

          • MrsLurksALot

            I just googled Going Clear, along with Gibney, Lawrence, etc…on each separate search, there was an ad:

            ‘Going Clear Documentary – HBO’s Going Clear‎
            Ad www. lawrencewright goingclear. com/
            Is it a real documentary? Watch the video.’

            I left the address in the quote, as it isn’t freeDumb. I’m not clicking on it, does anyone here have a clue?

            Ed. to make link not work.

            • squirrel

              It’s the same exact paid ad for the Gibney propagandist crap. One for Lawrence Right as well.

            • Free Minds, Free Hearts

              I saw this when googling Going Clear

        • One Human

          For me, google thinks it’s funny to have Scientology and other polarizing crap ads scroll when I read Raw Story.

      • Tory Christman

        Of course…but it’s just funny that *right before the HBO showing* where MILLIONS of people are GOING TO HEAR AND SEE who they *really* are…………suddenly BOOM! Their creepy videos are pushed off the main page. HA HA I love it!

    • nukethevolcano

      They used to have a couple of Tony Ortega smear sites which appear to be gone also. Not sure when that happened though.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Tory – At least some ads are back now – they went away for awhile last week, maybe they just forgot to pay the bill?

    • Ella Raitch

      Ha ha – they didn’t get to take them down before UPROXX did their own special take-down. Classic foot bullet

  • nottrue
    • Ella Raitch

      #GoingClear review: “Balance? @AlexGibneyfilm bent over backwards 2demonize Scientology, he may never stand up again” http://t.co/TeWAqrNIVk

      — Freedom Media Ethics (@FreedomEthics) March 25, 2015

      Wow…

      • Lucille Austero

        They are spinning out of control.

        • Baby

          Caustic combination of Exploding and Imploding.

          • Tory Christman

            Let’s face it: This is FUN!! :) Especially for we who have taken their *shit* for years
            and years and years, Tony included and many here——CHEERS!! :) SPs RULE.
            (And yes, Tick Tock, Tick Tock: Time IS on **our** side!!) :)

            • One Human

              Still so thrilled you left the dark side Tory!

            • Tory Christman

              Me too, One Human :)

            • Baby

              Yep.. Starting to see the end of the tunnel.. Never thought this day would happen.. Woo Hoo

        • Donna Cline Sargent

          only a matter of time , like Tory always says,”time is on our side” tick tock lol

        • aegerprimo

          Of course that will not end well.

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        Ella, Tony doesn’t like it when we link to Freedumb. Can you mention it but take out the link?

        • Ella Raitch

          Woops – redacted…didn’t even think about where the link was headed…

    • NOLAGirl

      They have a new Twitter acct. to keep an eye on, only has 13 followers (bahahaha) but is spewing the same crap as the other accounts. I won’t link it but it is @ goingclearfilm

    • Mrs. V.

      I can answer that in one word: Yes. Does it matter? No.

      • Baby

        V.. ? I am confused..Can you explain what you mean by ” Does it matter? No ”
        ………………..

        The reason I am questioning your response is.. This is big.. ( to me) Shows the world how vindictive they truly are.. The more media that gets a hold of this the better..

        • Dale A.

          Mrs V hasn’t answered yet, but I read it to mean that their threats are empty now, and not that this change isn’t important.

          • Baby

            Thanks Dale.. My mind wasn’t going there..haha..

          • Mrs. V.

            yep, sorry was distracted. Their threats mean nothing now. Yes they’re threatening, but no we will not be intimidated!

    • Donna Cline Sargent

      oh thanx :)

    • aegerprimo

      This article was a hoot as well…

      The Church Of Scientology is bad at Twitter
      http://thedissolve.com/features/exposition/966-the-church-of-scientology-is-bad-at-twitter/

      • Dale A.

        The last line is pretty funny; “I’m in complete agreement with the Church Of Scientology,…Gibney’s film is formally bland, thinly assembling the highlights of Wright’s book for an audience that hasn’t gotten around to reading it yet.”

        I mean, it may be true, from the standpoint of any given film critic that the film was “bland” etc…, but I don’t think that was the complaint of the COS.

        • aegerprimo

          It might be that Scott did not get around to reading Lawrence Wright’s book yet…

          • Tory Christman

            No, he probably DID read his book, and sure, there is TONS more in the book than in the documentary. Hello? It’s a documentary—and 2 hours at that. There is NO way one can get 1/2 of all that is in the book in a film. I loved both!

        • Tory Christman

          “Bland”? Are you F*** kidding me? How many Documentaries has this person who wrote that made? There lies the answer. :) BS! It is FILLED from the very first words to the end with amazingly interesting and often horrifying stories. I’ve seen it 4 times and each time
          E V E R Y person in the audience had “eyes wide open”…almost in shock. It was about as far from bland as a documentary can get, imnsho.

          • Dale A.

            This complaint about Going Clear has been leveled by more than one critic. I think there are several ways to understand it. One, as the contributor Richard Grant pointed out several entries back, some of these critics are really not up to the task, because they don’t understand the subject matter. Documentaries are particularly difficult to write about, this one more than most.

            Second, (actually first) is that Film Critics are afflicted by the need to sound hip. (That’s the only way I can answer your first question.)

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          He was making fun of a tweet that the cult sent, quoting a reviewer saying the film was formally bland.

    • Donna Cline Sargent

      the other on is called,Why Scientology’s Cone of silence has been shattered,the Daily Beast i believe.

  • Baby

    Paging i-Betty.. ( Skip is an Asshole)

    Baby
    Skip Press

    5 hours ago

    You owe i-Betty an apology.. Period. That was RUDE and DISRESPECTFUL.
    She works hard as a critic and for you to call her dumb is absolutely
    appalling.

    Reply

    Skip Press
    Baby

    5 hours ago

    Kiss my ass, anonymi.

    • Kim O’Brien

      ugh ..just ..ugh

      • Baby

        what does anonymi mean.. it’s stupid..hahaha

        • Kim O’Brien

          hell if i know ..LOL ..going after a sweetheart like i-Betty is just all sorts of wrong . You could almost hear her gasp .

        • https://www.pinterest.com/natlificent/ Nat-leficent!

          I think it is a joke for the plural of anonymous (Latin plurals end in “i”).

        • Ella Raitch

          Skip’s first port of call in dismissing people is to note that they don’t post under their real identity

          • Baby

            Oh that’s right.. Shit I should post as my real name.. Shelly Miscavige

    • sugarplumfairy

      Why bring it up again? i Betty is a big girl and can take care of herself..

      • Baby

        I just wanted him to know that Bunker has her back. I know she is a big girl.. but I’m her friend. And that is what friends do.

        • sugarplumfairy

          You’re a good girl, Baby..

          A couple years ago Michael Leonard Tilse wrote a great comment about how in-fighting among commenters can ruin an online community. In particular, he wrote about a certain ex-scientology group that I can’t remember the name of.. But OSA trolls had infiltrated this particular community and began commenting, getting friendly, and then picking fights and causing lots of hard feelings.. It finally caused the breakdown of that great online ex-scientologist community..

          For the longest time, I kept a copy of that great comment and I wish I still had it so I could post it here now..

          Skip is Skip.. I personally know if I poke a polar bear, he’ll probably eat me for lunch..

          • Baby

            Oh I remember that..I love Michael.. Thanks SPF.. I have always respect your voice.. xo

            • sugarplumfairy

              Thanks, Baby.. And Yay! I think I remembered the name of the group.. Alt.religion.scientology.. I think..

            • L. C. Spencer

              I don’t know if a.r.s was the community MLT was thinking of, but yeah, that community was so dragged under by troll posting that it became unreadable. I was on it back in the day and the ratio of noise to content grew steadily worse, even without the direct threats from lawyers (notably the Kobra). Reading it was almost physically taxing.

              The great thing that emerged from it? That’s where our Tory found her freedom. And she did it among a handful of great, true posters whose names are still known to us today. Those people didn’t go away when a.r.s lost its greatness, they just migrated to the web which was then coming into bloom. Many beginnings of protest that were born on a.r.s are flourishing today.

          • Fred G. Haseney

            Hi, sugarplumfairy. I spent a considerable amount of time in Scientology in the 1980’s. I did a lot of training at the American St. Hill Organization in Los Angeles where Skip Press helped out when a public person, such as myself, had to report to the Ethics Section for “re-education.” That’s where I met Skip, a helpful, knowledgeable and likable guy.

            • Robert Eckert

              He can be.

            • Fred G. Haseney

              I hear you loud and clear, Robert Eckert; it’s interesting to follow allong the “comments” section because you can get a good feel on where someone is coming from. “He can be,” is a very good response.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Hi, Fred! Nice meeting you.. I just read some of your story in your comment last night to Eileen.. I’m so glad you’re out and I hope your regrouping is not too painful.. I lovvvve that you saw Going Clear with AGP.. He is awesome!!

            • Fred G. Haseney

              Regrouping since Scientology Inc. has been going down like good medicine, thank you. Do you know that I got to see Going Clear with AGP purely by accident? I’ve never met him, and have only seen him online via YouTube and his website. I went to see the movie two week’s ago tomorrow alone, and as I sat there, waiting for the movie, I wondered: Do I know anyone who came to this showing? Then AGP laughed at something his friends said (they sat one row behind me and twelve seats in). I jumped up and shook his hand, saying, “I’d recognize that laugh anywhere!” He invited me to sit with him and we had a ball!

        • Robert Eckert

          I’m glad you did. I’ve called out Skip a few times, but it helps if there are multiple voices, not just one “self-appointed cop” to make him know it is the community at large that is offended.

          • Baby

            Thanks Robert.. He has clearly stepped over the line many times.. ugh

    • outraged

      Again? Didn’t SKiprass do this before?
      why isn;t he banned?

      • Baby

        Yes..and he did it again yesterday..but I didn’t find out about it until last night..

  • https://www.pinterest.com/natlificent/ Nat-leficent!

    A vid in a series of hoax videos. Decent writing and a good actress — I waffled on whether it was fake till min 1:36 when she called it “class” instead of “course” XD
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSAn5c5QKQY

    • Michael Leonard Tilse

      I don’t think she is in anymore, the stuff at the end of being alone for 48 hours and after seems to be tacked on for effect. But I don’t find fault with her descriptions of what went on in “class.” It seemed more like she had experience with it but was out and was using not cult words but their equivalent to explain to someone not familiar.

      The description of the video sounds like “Orientation.”

      But I wouldn’t discount her as merely an actress playing a part. I think it is partly her experience with some attempt at some shock scripted in at the end.

      • Lurkness

        The videos are part of an ARG.

        “An alternate reality game (ARG) is an interactive networked narrative that uses the real world as a platform and uses transmedia storytelling to deliver a story that may be altered by players’ ideas or actions.

        The form is defined by intense player involvement with a story that takes place in real time and evolves according to players’ responses. Subsequently, it is shaped by characters that are actively controlled by the game’s designers, as opposed to being controlled by artificial intelligence as in a computer or console video game. Players interact directly with characters in the game, solve plot-based challenges and puzzles, and collaborate as a community to analyze the story and coordinate real-life and online activities. ARGs generally use multimedia, such as telephones, email and mail but rely on the Internet as the central binding medium.”

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternate_reality_game

  • http://www.davekonig.com/ davek

    The #Scientology doc #GoingClear answers a lot of questions – except one. Isn’t there a Hubbard “tech” that can fix Travolta’s hair?

    • Juicer77

      I wish that man would just go bald gracefully instead of trying to cover it up.

  • PappeKak
  • Simi Valley

    O/T but very useful: ginger/green tea … great appetite suppressant … Boil up a few pieces of fresh ginger root in a few cups of water (like 10-15 min.). Then turn off the heat, stick a couple of green tea bags in there to steep for 5 min. Can add some plain water if the ginger is too strong.

    • kemist

      If you’ve got a cold, or just as a comfort drink in the winter, you take black tea or oolong, add ginger and black pepper, sweeten with honey if desired.

      Warms you up nicely.

  • http://www.davekonig.com/ davek

    Scariest, creepiest part of Going Clear? Clip of “We Stand Tall” video. Hey nonny na!

    • Observer

      And the scariest part of that is COB’s 80s-chic shirt. Gah!

      • chukicita

        i’m not so sure that was even chic in the 80s. Are those *cowboys and horses* on there?
        Please tell me there are no Indians.

        • Observer

          It’s an Hermes shirt, a ridiculous and ridiculously priced piece of haute couture. It’s not even the gaudiest example. Observe: http://www.polyvore.com/hermes/collection?id=3183075

          • Eivol Ekdal

            No taste – the button placket cuts right through the graphic which in itself is just awful.

            • PappeKak

              The dwarf is not noted for having a sense of fashion.

            • One Human

              Or sense in general.

          • Zer0

            Although Bill Cosby and Hermes sweaters are currently out of vogue, I estimate his “stand tall” outfit to be about $1,000 in current USD

          • chukicita

            OK, I’m the first person to admit that I’m somewhat fashion dyslexic. But that shirt is like a microcosm of Scientology; expensive and ugly.

          • Juicer77

            Gah!

        • aegerprimo

          It was a…. HERMES. You know regular Sea Org members could not afford that shit, much less regular people.

        • Eivol Ekdal
          • chukicita

            As Sherbet mentioned earlier… ‘don’t cry for me, Trementina’

            • Eivol Ekdal

              Thanks to you I found my dimples again.

      • Eivol Ekdal

        Hermes/Goatse shirt..

      • HillieOnTheBeach

        Where I hung around in the 80s, that shirt would’ve gotten him… forcefully expelled from the environement.

        • Zer0

          LOL:)

    • PappeKak

      Did they include the brain worm “Thank You For Listening”??

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGNHa8IH91k

      • chukicita

        NONONONOnonononoonononooooooO!

      • Zana

        AAwwwwwful….!!!!!!! Where is the exclamation point tech!!! ARG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • http://www.davekonig.com/ davek

        I had a radio show in 2006-7. Once I had on a guest, a comedian, who is a committed Scientologist. I asked him a few skeptical questions, but politely. He cheerfully responded, painting a very bright picture. I asked him if he was aware that LRH had recorded some songs. He said he wasn’t aware of that. So I played “Thank You For Listening” for him. His face went from confused, to concerned, to crestfallen. When it was over he said “Well…he wasn’t a very good singer, was he?”

        • squirrel

          I heart that story… In a sad way.

          • http://www.davekonig.com/ davek

            It was a very real crack in the armor – it was the first time he ever had to confront the possibility that there was something LRH just wasn’t good at (in addition to being a comic he was also a musician, so he knew bad when he heard it). 7 years later he’s still in though…

            • squirrel

              Poor thing is probably haunted by that. Can’t even hum along to god Bless America without hearing that tone deaf treacle.

          • Zer0

            Why sad?

            • squirrel

              Because by Devek’s account of the man was polite and full of hope, and him listening to Lron sing must have been like reading the ingredients on a bottle of poison he’d swallowed by mistake.

            • Zer0

              Like a beluga whale being tortured by the eighties:)

            • squirrel

              Hahajahahaja!!!!

            • squirrel

              ;)))

        • PappeKak

          I think that was a brilliant move. VVWD

        • Are_sics

          But the writing is totally aces with his sadistic smugness.

    • ShevilKat

      I can imagine one of the biggest O/Ws is snickering when seeing Miniscavage sing “We Stand Tall”.

      • The Dude

        That is FUNNY!

  • Toni m

    A new channel in YouTube is call #Going Clear. I think is brand new because only has one subscriber, me, I just subscribed. It has many of the interviews and more.

    • aegerprimo

      Link please!

      • Toni m

        Just put ……… in search and you will find it, but now I don’t think is a good site. it has many information but at the same time has videos that I don’t have any interest to see.

  • http://www.davekonig.com/ davek

    Saw Going Clear at Lincoln Center Theater. Adults – $14, Students – $12, Children – $10, Body Thetans – free.

    • Stephanie Loving

      Funny stuff davek. I needed a nice big smile. Thank you!

      • http://www.davekonig.com/ davek

        Thank you, I’ve posted all my Going Clear jokes, my work here is done!

        • Stephanie Loving

          bless you kind person ;o) … still laughing

  • http://www.davekonig.com/ davek

    Saw Going Clear in NYC. Theater was so packed they had to add an extra screening – just for Body Thetans.

  • Zer0

    “I’d … just listen to them for hours and acknowledge what Scientology had done to mess them up”

    Wow, a fantastic and convincing statement. Thanks, Marty, for talking with Tony, and all the other stuff you’ve done to help END scientology.

  • http://www.davekonig.com/ davek

    “If you see Going Clear and never mention Scientology again, you can do so. It would be stupid but you can do it. You can also dive off a bridge…”

  • http://www.davekonig.com/ davek

    Saw Going Clear. I loved it, but my Body Thetans didn’t.

    • sugarplumfairy

      Maybe you should take them to see Cinderella then.. They’d probably love a fairy tale..

  • http://www.davekonig.com/ davek

    Saw Going Clear. Best Tom Cruise movie in a long time.

  • ShannonE

    My sister and I just got back from making the two hour drive into L.A. to see Going Clear. Wow!!! What a powerful punch this documentary packs at the psychopathic organization of Scientology. We both just sat there with tears in our eyes as the movie ended. I kept thinking there has gotta be some really bad karma coming down on Miscavige soon (and T.C. too if he doesn’t mend his ways)! I also thought about the fact that Marty has spent his last few years trying to put good karma out there in the world. All of the former Scientologists (and Tony) in the documentary are so brave to put their stories out there so they can get the word out to help others. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, to all of you (and the many more) who put yourselves on the firing lines so that innocent people will never join this organization or to give courage to those who already have!

    • Juicer77

      Thanks for sharing your review!

  • https://www.pinterest.com/natlificent/ Nat-leficent!

    So, I am having trouble keeping track of who is who with so many blank avatars. I would therefore like to formally request that people add some graphic (a color, a letter, anything) to their accounts. Feel free to completely disregard this plea.
    Sincerely, Nat

    • nukethevolcano

      fixed mine

      • Robert Eckert

        Looks like the Burl Ives snowman in Rudolf.

        • Donna Cline Sargent

          haha I thought the same thing.

      • https://www.pinterest.com/natlificent/ Nat-leficent!

        :)

    • The Dude

      They could choose Gravatar and it would make one for you.

    • seriouslyWTF

      Okay.. I added an avatar to mine as well..

      • https://www.pinterest.com/natlificent/ Nat-leficent!

        Thank you

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      I like mine!

  • Scientology Is A Dead-End Road

    My own research into the bigger picture has incidentally paralleled Marty’s. Hubbard came from a suppressive area and never could even handle his own case, which right there invalidates the whole subject. Hubbard knew a number of ways to make people crazy, one of which was to claim the road to total freedom while at the same time making sure you could not get there. In Scientology lingo a “Must Have-Can’t Have” which according to his tech can cause you to go psychotic or crazy.

    Higher levels of freedom are in this planet’s future, but the controlling insanity of Scientology only leads in the opposite direction.

    There are actual ways to repair your subconscious AND regain your native spiritual abilities without touching Scientology (or Dianetics). Many of these exist and work.

    Soon Scientology will be a forgotten and very small piece of history, ruined by his irresistable urge to control and destroy others from an Ego run amuck, and a litany of other common mental diseases,
    all inherited by the current nut-in-charge and his bi-monthly implant events to PR the flock.

    • The Dude

      By the end of his run, Jim Jones was blasting his propaganda over loud speakers 24/7 in Jonestown. He needed to make sure everyone knew what was expected of them. And also what to fear. Fear is a powerful tool in the hands of a megalomaniac,

  • PappeKak

    There is sooo much good news today I can’t read fast enough to keep up!

    Another nice, theta article today: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/03/25/why-scientology-s-cone-of-silence-shattered.html

    • The Dude

      Just saw that one myself. I was going to post it. Ya beat me to it!

  • Anonymous

    This may have already been posted…but just in case…another review of Going Clear. This one is from 5 hours ago at UPROXX Movies: http://uproxx.com/movies/2015/03/going-clear-revelations/

    • Robert Eckert

      Uproxx are the people who watched the Dead Agent films so we didn’t have to (and mocked them hilariously).

      • Cupcakes for Breakfast

        Good people! lol!

    • Juicer77

      On the whole, a very good article. One quibble, though. “The church is also alleged to make some of its members perform hard labor in a prison camp called “the hole.”

      As I understand it, these are two different things. The Hole was a special prison/punishment mainly for executives that may have included some hard labor, while the Rehabilitation Project Force is the punishment detail made up mostly of hard labor assignments and demeaning tasks for anyone at any level in the organization. The difference is probably not of much interest except to regular $ci watchers.

      • Anonymous

        Or as Helluvahoax! over at ESMB put it…the new Scientology new tag line is:

        At least we don’t use gas chambers like that really bad cult did.

  • The Dude

    Old article I just found on The Boston Globe’s web site. From March 19. I don’t know if it has been posted yet.

    http://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2015/03/19/scientology-enturbulating-lingo/TvBESMQkV4RcxGnyrNSH1K/story.html

    • aegerprimo

      It has. This was written by our very own i-Betty.

      • The Dude

        I can dig it. I-Betty is cool. I know her on facebook. Super nice!

        • Juicer77

          She’s a mermaid, you know.

          • The Dude

            Anyone of us could be mermaids! We only have avatars that are photos of the waist up.

      • Juicer77

        Beg pardon, clarification: article written by Britt Peterson, quote from i-Betty included in the article. Unless I’ve got my people mixed up?

        • aegerprimo

          I could’ve misunderstood the Bunker comments that day (wouldn’t be the first time I got something wrong)… sorry for any confusion everyone.

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          Yes, it was posted a few days ago – one of i-Betty’s comments is quoted in the article, her stats are straight up and vertical!

  • Anonymous

    This is also at UPROXXX…about the Tom Cruise Clinging meme (parodying the trailer for his upcoming movie.)There are quite a few numerous shoops for those that enjoy that sort of thing…which I think is just about everybody here. Check it out: http://uproxx.com/filmdrunk/2015/03/tom-cruise-clinging-is-the-photoshop-gift-that-keeps-on-giving/

    • Todd Tomorrow

      . Everything you think you know about the Church of Scientology is a hundred times worse than it seems

      The church is not merely weird, eccentric, new age, or defensive of
      its image. As depicted in the film, it’s cruel, abusive, and believes
      it’s fighting a war to exist despite its happy doctrine of a world
      without wars or criminals. Further, the film demonstrates that the
      church is likely engaging in criminal behavior by harassing former
      members and their families, blackmailing, slandering and libeling them,
      even if some of those family members were never members of the church.
      The church is also alleged to make some of its members perform hard
      labor in a prison camp called “the hole,” and it separates children from
      their families; those children are often neglected and in poor health.
      People appear to be physically abused while being convinced that they are the ones who need the church to set them straight and relieve them of the evil alien energy they hold inside.

      What Going Clear shows us is that Scientology might be the
      North Korea of religions. It’s truly terrifying, and it should be
      stopped. If only its most high-profile members could speak out without
      the danger of retaliation.

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        Coincidentally, I am just now reading “Nothing to Envy”(by Barbara Demick) about people’s lives in North Korea, and for the whole first chapter I swear I thought she was describing scientology. Exact same treatment.

    • MaxSpaceman

      This looks familiar. Dave has a ride just like this one Tom is on.

    • Kestrel

      I liked the one where it looked like a bunch of body thetans hanging off of him.

    • aegerprimo

      Hanging off John Travolta’s wiglet is especially funny!

    • aegerprimo

      LOVE this one in the comments….

      http://i.imgur.com/WaAUMtw.png

  • aegerprimo

    Most of you know, I collect Co$ bad press and make a monthly list and post it at the ex-$cientologist and $cientology critics discussion forums (ESMB, WWP, OCMB, RFTTP, ESK), and post links to the threads here at the Bunker. Also, Miss Tia has hosted a page with the links to the threads, and a list of the best of the articles and media to check out – http://misstia.com/badpresslobby.html

    There are many people posting links to articles today. This year has been CRAZY with Co$ bad press. I already separated the wheat from the chaff for today, so here is the list….FOR SO FAR TODAY!

    Tom Cruise ‘irresponsible’ for ignoring Scientology abuse claims: ‘Going Clear’ director
    http://pagesix.com/2015/03/25/director-blasts-tom-cruise-for-not-addressing-scientology-abuse-claims/

    Why Scientology’s Cone of Silence Shattered
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/03/25/why-scientology-s-cone-of-silence-shattered.html

    Director Paul Haggis Blows Lid Off Scientology In Bombshell Essay
    http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2015/03/paul-haggis-scientology-essay-going-clear/

    HBO Doc Shines New Light on Scientology
    http://citybeat.com/cincinnati/article-32407-hbo_doc_shines_new_l.html

    HBO’s ‘Going Clear’ Is a Perfect Scientology Primer
    http://www.newsweek.com/hbos-going-clear-perfect-scientology-primer-316567

    A Few Unexpected Revelations About Scientology That We Learn In ‘Going Clear’
    http://uproxx.com/movies/2015/03/going-clear-revelations/

    ‘Going Clear’ documentary targets Scientology
    http://www.visaliatimesdelta.com/story/entertainment/2015/03/25/going-clear-documentary-targets-scientology/70446246/

    HBO Going Clear film, Tom Cruise, John Travolta, trapped in Scientology
    http://www.examiner.com/article/hbo-going-clear-film-tom-cruise-john-travolta-trapped-scientology

    Did Scientology Threaten ‘Going Clear’ Directory Alex Gibney On Twitter?
    http://www.ibtimes.com/did-scientology-threaten-going-clear-director-alex-gibney-twitter-1859436

    • aegerprimo

      If you want the wheat AND the chaff, you can sort out the links at this portal yourself.
      http://www.xenu-directory.net/webnews.php

      • Juicer77

        Thanks for all this hard work! Holy cow. That’s a lot of bad press.

      • PappeKak

        Now I’ll never catch up. Thanks.

    • The Dude

      Mine from Boston Globe is not on your list! Yay!

      • aegerprimo

        Oh well… but it is not the end of the day yet. ☺

        • The Dude

          I am just glad it was not posted yet. I hate when I do that.

          • aegerprimo

            You are talking about an article written a week ago by i-Betty. It was a good one!

            • The Dude

              Aww. Oh well. It is a good article.

            • Dancing Cranberry

              i-Betty is mentioned, ap, but I don’t think she wrote it.

            • aegerprimo

              Let me know on that.

            • Dancing Cranberry

              I see Juicer had the same comment.

            • Robert Eckert

              The author quotes a Bunker post and attributes it to “i-Betty”

            • aegerprimo

              Thanx and sorry for the misunderstanding everyone. Not sure why I thought i-Betty wrote the article.

            • Dancing Cranberry

              Thanks for doing this. There were a great many links today. It was hard to pull myself away from the Bunker.

    • Panopea Abrupta

      AP, you are an absolute star, but even you may be unable to keep up with the tsunami of entheta.
      May it be so.
      xxx
      PA

      • aegerprimo

        I will try.

    • Zer0

      Fantastic, AP. Thanks for all your hard work!

    • Allie

      That’s fantastic–9 articles just from today. Storm clouds are gathering. I expect lots more in the next few days. Thanks, aegerprimo, for gathering them and posting such a great list. *Trots off to read a few* .

  • Vaquera

    The Co$ front group, New Civilization Builders, is now using the Meetup website to lure in those struggling with depression. Make me ill.

    https://www.facebook.com/newcivilizationbuilders/photos/a.354340391380167.1073741829.351418905005649/483516741795864/?type=1&theater

    http://www.meetup.com/Melbourne-How-to-END-Depression-Meetup

    • Juicer77

      Interesting. Just established today, 1st meeting on April 3. One confirmed to attend. Will be interested in seeing if this gains any traction.

      • Vaquera

        Shoot. I just googled “meetup dianetics” and got more than several hits. Wish we could Red X them.
        http://www.meetup.com/Sacramento-Dianetics-Group/

        • Juicer77

          Group founded in 2010 and has 29 members. There will probably always be small pockets of Dianetecysts around. (See what I did there?)

          • The Dude

            Dianetecysts! That’s great! Gawd. Why didn’t I come up with that one!!!!!!!!!!

            • Juicer77

              I think the old vine Zin is kicking in.

            • MaxSpaceman

              Ohhhhh – that one has just been waiting out there for everyone. And you got it first.

              Dianetecysts. Too perfect !!

            • Free Minds, Free Hearts

              Calling Missionary Kid for the LISTs!

            • The Dude

              How are you doing? Good to see you. Thank you for a kind word the other day.

      • Vaquera

        I’ve never heard of this one….
        Dianetics Primal Therapy By Crying
        http://www.meetup.com/Dianetics-Primal-Therapy-Cure-By-Crying/

        • Juicer77

          That’s a new twist! Everyone feels better after a good cry, I guess.

          • Robert Eckert

            Miscavige should try it.

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    I noticed that several movie theater chain have included in their weekly email the offer to now buy advance tickets to MI:5 – which doesn’t even open until July 31! Hmm…

    And look at the push to get folks to pre-order their tickets by March 28th:

    MOVIE DOWNLOAD – Mission:Impossible – Rogue Nation
    Buy tickets for ‘Mission:Impossible – Rogue Nation’ now through March 28 and get free previous ‘Mission:
    Impossible’ movie download. Valid only while supplies last. Offer available only in the US.

    AVAILABLE FOR 5 DAYS ONLY! SEE THE UPCOMING MISSION:IMPOSSIBLE – ROGUE NATION! GET 2 MOVIES FOR THE PRICE OF 1. Limited-time offer: Get a complimentary UltraViolet movie download of one of the following Mission:Impossible films: Mission:Impossible; Mission: Impossible 2; Mission:Impossible 3; or Mission:Impossible – Ghost Protocol in Digital HD or SD as part of your movie ticket purchase. Look for details on your order confirmation page. Offer valid through March 28, 2015. Valid only while supplies last.

    March 28th??? Really, where did they come up with that date? Is this just a coincidence or is there a concern real that something happening on the March 29th may have an adverse effect on ticket sales? Interesting.

    Paging Media Lush! Media Lush, please come to the Bunker courtesy phone! :)

    • EnthralledObserver

      LOL – oh wow, that’s completely transparent. I cannot believe that is a coincidence at all.
      Nice find I.W!
      They’ve finally clued on that something’s definitely going to go pear shaped with Cruise and his PR after GC screens on the 28th.

      • Allie

        Totally agree. Not a coincidence at all. It’s very obvious

    • Juicer77

      DM sent out a memo to squeeze every last box office penny from Tom Cruise before the 29th. Milk that cash cow, Davey!

      • Tracy Schmitz

        that is if he hasn’t (for years and years) milked him in “other” ways…..

        • Juicer77

          I tend to believe the multiple sources that claim TC worships DM, and that they are unnaturally close friends, not those that speculate about a physical relationship.

          • Tracy Schmitz

            well, i was joking.. however, i would love for someone to explain the whole “unnaturally” definition in their close friendship. i mean aren’t close friendships just that, very close? why is their close friendship “unnaturally” close? gotta say, it DOES say something about TC if he not only is remotely friends with someone like miscavige but worships him? who worships another man in any aspect, no matter who that person is, represents, does? just too odd, and this gives “firepower” to why many in the public DO have their “gossipy, innuendo, hunches” about these 2.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Good catch Wally! Hm. I wonder what might be happening March 29 that could reduce the demand for MI 5 tickets…

    • Juicer77

      Has anyone ever seen this kind of promotion happen with another movie series?

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        IDK. Just to compare to MI:5…

        Avengers: Age of Ultron opens on May 1 and the advanced tix went on sale March 4. No giveaways/incentives to buy now or before March 29th.

        Furious 7 opens on April 3 and advanced tix went on sale March 11. It has a sweepstakes promotion which continues until April 5. No incentives to buy now or before March 29th.

    • Sergeant Pepper

      Never heard of such before. Is it individual cinemas or the studio driving this?

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        It has to be the studio. 2 theaters I get email from had it. I checked Fandango and the March 28 promotion showed up on the main page. Same for Movietickets.com. I assume that any theater/website that sells advance tickets has the March 28th promotion too.

        • Sergeant Pepper

          Paramount should re-shoot to snuff Cruise’s character.Outpoint handled.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Mr Hole wanted to know if he bought it now, but changed his mind on March 30, could he get a refund or does he need to go to scientology for arbitration?

      • EnthralledObserver

        LOL!

    • http://scientologybollocks.blogspot.co.uk/ media_lush

      they spent an additional $100m on top of the regular massive PR/Ad spend for Edge of Tomorrow and it was still a pretty abject failure (remember that the chick flick beat it hands down)… it’s still $78m shy of it’s production budget in the domestic box office. My guess is that they’re testing the water to gauge the interest… I’m pretty sure that the take-up figures for this would be private and depending on what they get will affect the whole ad strategy. The studio brass are obviously pretty worried and they want as much info as possible before Going Clear broadcasts… I’m sure they’ll repeat the process afterwards and compare the figures to see what kind of effect it has. The PR/ad spend on tent-poles are absolutely huge.. often approaching the cost of the film itself; given what they saw with Edge there’s obviously going to be a serious issue of ‘throwing good money after bad’ with MI5 if Cruise doesn’t take some kind of stand. Whatever else Hollywood is it certainly isn’t compassionate when it comes to making serious decisions of where to throw it’s money at. This also kind of explains why they’re having a Cruise month on Sky movies in the UK… those figures will be private but it will also give an indication of where the wind lies vis a vis tiny tommy’s popularity.

    • Ella Raitch

      One of my favourite direct hits of the film Going Clear to date. Could they be more obvious? Why not just say March 31st?

  • PappeKak

    I think we should refer to the Sunday premier date as Stunday henceforth. You know, immortalize it, have Stunday teas and Stunday parties and whatever else we decide to do to celebrate Stunday.

    Where were you on Stunday? Who did you watch it with? What did you do for Stunday?

    • EnthralledObserver

      Wishing Nicole Kidman called her daughter ‘Stunday’ now. It’s very impacting. 😉

    • Sidney18511

      We will all remember where we were when we watched “Going Clear” on March 29th 2015. Almost like remembering where you were when Kennedy was shot.

      • EnthralledObserver

        Better than remembering where you were when Kennedy was shot, because this has global repercussions. Most Aussies (who were old enough – not me) have no clue where they were when US president Kennedy was shot.

        • Robert Eckert

          That’s because it was the middle of the night over there.

          • EnthralledObserver

            See… I didn’t even know that. 😉

      • Allie

        Exactly! A wonderful remembrance that will be

  • Sibs

    While I was at the pharmacy, I saw a tabloid front cover calling TC and JT secret gay lovers. Even the tabloids are capitalizing on the attention!

    • Juicer77

      I’ve seen those issues, too. That “story” was reported here a couple weeks ago, and rightly shot down as nonsense. You’re right, they’re doing the usual tabloid trick of trying to capitalize on whatever’s trending, no matter how farfetched and fictional.

      • The Dude

        But a good indicator of the turbulent nature of the $cio celeb tribe

      • MaxSpaceman

        too bad for Jorma Revolta and Thomm Cruize

        • Juicer77

          They would have made a lovely couple!

          • MaxSpaceman

            btw, you ‘viewing’ in nyc sunday eve ?

            • Juicer77

              I will be in NYC :)

            • MaxSpaceman

              c u then :)

  • MaxSpaceman

    Wondering if Karen de la C & Jeffrey are going to have a Going Clear HBO viewing get together anywhere in Los Angeles ? (Not that am there but haven’t seen their presence in a while . . .)

  • Allie

    On the subject of the evil smear videos and black PR that seem to be removed from Google, several people have suggested that maybe Dave decided not to spend more $$ or that maybe Google denied them the opportunity to display them. Or maybe Dave realized that this scheme was not working and therefore pulled them. I’ve been thinking of a different theory: Desperate Davey knows that the shit will hit the fan big-time in a few days and that nothing they’ve done or threatened will stop the documentary from showing. I think Desperate Davey has pulled them because he desperately wants to save face because the film will crucify him. If the smear videos are not there, then perhaps CoS won’t look so bad (even tho thousands of people have seen the smear videos). Of course, they will have to deal with the fall-out of the film, but at least Davey (or Ka-Pouw) can deny that they have participated in any wrong-doing. A good example of an acceptable truth that of course they and the minions and the whales would believe. Just a theory and I may be out to lunch about this. But I think Desperate Davey is at the end of the line. This does not mean they’re trying to be the good guys – we all know that’s not possible. They’re just trying not to be the really, really, really, really bad guys.

    • Anonymous

      They’re just (be) trying not to LOOK LIKE the really, really, really, really bad guys.

      • Allie

        Exactly what I was trying to say. Thanks for clarifying it more.

    • EnthralledObserver

      Tory mentioned this earlier and found the vids are still at their Freedumb site, just not front page. So, they are going to have to try harder that this, I think, not to be the really, really, really, really bad guys. Might eliminate only one of those ‘really’s. 😉

      • Allie

        I think we’ll have to add more “really’s” after the 29th

        • EnthralledObserver

          Haha… this is true.

      • Juicer77

        Yes, I just checked and you have to go a couple pages in. Now I have to wipe my hard drive and disinfect this thing. BRB.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Smear ads are back, at least for the movie.

      • Toni m

        Please ignore the site in YouTube I recommended. It has a lot of information of the documentary but smear videos are there too. I unsubscribe already. Sorry I will check better the next time.

  • EnthralledObserver

    Completely off topic but nevertheless important:
    Opinions sought from those who have suffered through this;

    How much does it hurt to turn… 40?

    Mine is coming up and I’m frightened. :(

    • Todd Tomorrow

      You’re never younger than you are right now. :)

    • Juicer77

      Don’t be frightened. You won’t turn into a pumpkin at midnight :)

      • PappeKak

        How can one be so sure?

        • Juicer77

          I still get carded.

          • Todd Tomorrow

            I do ,too. But only for cigarettes!

        • EnthralledObserver

          Exactly – I mean, pumpkin soup has to come from somewhere! 😮

    • Donna Cline Sargent

      Well I had a hard time when I turned 30.Now I am 52.I am disabled and have been for many years. But my health has really went down the past 5 or so. Now I regret all the worrying for nothing.Enjoy your life every day!Because you are alive and you can lose the quality of life when you least expect it.Embrace being 40,Its awesome!

      • Donna Cline Sargent

        I would be 40 again in a flat second.

        • EnthralledObserver

          I remember 30 stung a bit – but I wish I was back there again now… lol

          But I hear you. I shall try to embrace 40. :)

          • Donna Cline Sargent

            you only get better with age :)

            • Allie

              like a fine wine!

          • coonellie

            To me, it wasn’t about my real chronological age, but how I felt. At 20, I felt like 70. At 35 I felt more like 25. At 40, I finally felt like 20. Age, at least to me, is just a number. I’m trying to grow into my 40s. I’ve been graced with good genes so I look about 15 years younger than I am.

      • Anonymous

        And as several folks have noted “Youth is wasted on the young.”

        Shaw, Wilde, Capote…

        • Donna Cline Sargent

          oh yes it is true :)

    • aegerprimo

      The 40’s are great.

    • Anonymous

      It’s better than the alternative (of not making it to 40.)

      • EnthralledObserver

        Very good point. :) haha

        • EnthralledObserver

          Just trying to think of a better way of phrasing ‘At least I’m not dead’ for my internal mantra. :p

          • Juicer77

            A new day is a new adventure!

          • Donna Cline Sargent

            Over the hill and twiced as dusty ! lol Quote from a father figure that was in my life. gotta laugh at life

            • EnthralledObserver

              Nice.

    • Vaquera

      40 was a great milestone for me. I woke up that morning with an epiphany: It’s ok to say no to people. It was liberating. 40 also comes with a certain amount of wisdom that eluded my 30’s.

      “Will you volunteer to work at the school book fair?” NO
      “I know she sort of bugs us, but should we invite her to lunch?” NO
      “Will you make 30 dozen cookies for the trail ride this year?” NO

      50, on the other hand….not so much.

      • Sejanus

        At 50 every trip to the doc is to find out what else is broken in the body you just have to learn to live with..lol
        Fortunately I offset it by staying immature..lol

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Now you tell us.

    • Science Doc

      It’s not too bad. More of a mind game. When I turned 50 I was substantially paralyzed and awaiting major experimental neurosurgery, and that was bad, especially the ALS misdiagnosis. 60 was bad because it was bad. Not in high school any more for sure. 40 is good.

      • EnthralledObserver

        Ok – so perspective – got it! :)

        I hope your next milestone is much kinder to you.

    • outraged

      40 is the new 30.

      • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

        80 is the new 60. I won’t celebrate for another year and 3 months when I do the big one.

        • outraged

          and I’m just a few years from 60 is the new 40. :-}

    • Couch_Incident

      Every milestone birthday going back to my mid 20’s was perceived by me as an accusation that I hadn’t accomplished much, wasted too much time, and that things were set in stone going forward. Somewhat laughable from my current perspective (about to turn 49). Can’t say I feel great about this next birthday, but it makes my earlier birthday conclusions look a bit ridiculous.

      As the Holocaust survivor said, “Any day above ground is a good one.”

    • Sejanus

      At 40 I took up paintball and was very good.
      At 45 took up harmonica..perform in bars from time to time.
      Just last November at 50 took up trumpet and making chainmail.
      Always test your limits and know there is no rulebook and the playbook is the one you write as you go.
      They can be milestones…good ones even.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      40’s are so incredible. Enjoy every minute of it!

    • jeff

      Not much. 50 was the big one for me.

    • Panopea Abrupta

      The first time Frances Chichester took up sailing, he was 49.
      He became the first person to circumnavigate the globe, sailing solo, at age 62.

      My spouse just turned 40 early March.
      Looking good so far :)

    • MadMaxi

      40’s were great. turning 50 slayed me, while my brother loved turning 50.

      Just remember you are not getting older you are getting more attitude!

    • Are_sics

      For me, early 40s were probably the best years. I became a gym rat in my late 30s…. so was physically in better shape at 40 than 30; that had something to do with it. But not everything. Certainly I found several kinds of equanimity that were fugitive, earlier.

    • Kim O’Brien

      turning 28 freaked me out for some reason . i LOVED turing 40 ..enjoy it :)

    • TheMirrorThetan

      It was just another day .I’m 43 this year. I might be a little bitchier and don’t put up anyone’s shit anymore but that’s it. I don’t feel any older than I did 10 yrs ago.
      I must admit when I was a kid I thought as soon as you hit 25 you were over the hill. LOL.

    • Baby

      EO.. I have totally embraced every year that I am. I am not afraid to grow older..I’m not afraid of death.

      Make everyday count. ( OMG I sound like a Hallmark card) but shit you can’t fight it..

      Be the BEST you can be for the age that you are..

      Growing old Gracefully to me is ” Those things I Can NO longer do..I don’t want to do..”

      Can I still do a cartwheel ? Nope.. Do I want to do a Cartwheel? Nope.. See how it works.

    • splog

      40 was just another day for me, so was 50…

      Mrs Splog has the best outlook though, she keeps telling me “You’re only as young as the woman you feel”, that makes me a young sprightly 35 year-old :-)

  • JMasiulewicz

    Apparently it’s not that difficult to rescind the tax-free status of a “religion”. Even in Florida.

    http://patch.com/florida/newportrichey/naked-paint-parties-prompt-churchs-loss-tax-exempt-status

  • Sejanus

    With great Theta comes great responsibilty….
    fortunately there is no such thing so they are off the hook for the moment.

  • outraged

    ot, terribly ot, The Germanwings plane.
    The pilot was screaming and trying to smash in the cockpit door.
    It was locked.
    He was locked out.
    Stunned. Heart attack? Co-pilot went crazy? The T word?

    • Science Doc

      Just read that elsewhere.

    • MadMaxi

      Richard Quest on CNN said it would make most sense that it was a heart attack or medical condition. He also said this is why they normally never leave just one person in the cockpit now if one of the pilots leaves, just in case something happened to the pilot flying and the door cannot be opened from the outside.

      • outraged

        Why was the door locked from the inside?

        • MadMaxi

          He and the other CNN guys were saying the recorder had them talking amicably and the one pilot went out for a bit then came back and the inside pilot was not responding. They are like us waiting to hear more.

          ETA: After 9/11 they made it a law that all cockpits had to lock from the inside so terrorists couldn’t storm the cockpit.

        • Tony Ortega

          It always is.

          • outraged

            but then what is the procedure if the single pilot in the cockpit loses consciousness? There must be a way for the crew to get in.

            • Lurkness

              In the US, other flight personnel go in the cockpit when one of the pilots is leaving. Apparently, that was not the required procedure in Germany (Europe?). Also in US remaining pilot is supposed to don oxygen mask while just one pilot is in the cockpit.

            • outraged

              But why did the plane descend? If the co-pilot lost consciousness, is there some button he would fall on that makes the engine stop?

              I know next to nothing about flying planes, as you can tell, btw.

        • MadMaxi

          wow.. just read today’s update (thurs 26Mar) How sad and tragic, if he wanted to die then why did he have to take a whole plane full of people with him? Guess we will never know, at least if it was medical it would have been horrific but forgivable.

  • PappeKak

    Scientology: the North Korea of religions

    • Snake Plissken

      Scientology: The North Korea of Crime Syndicates

      • Zana

        Yes! This should go on the list. !

    • Zana

      Yes… it belongs on the list.

  • Toni m

    The Argentina post give me hope. I’m afraid dm will bring with false promises young people from other countries to make it for the lack of slave hands from here now that awareness of the scam of scientology is high.

  • David E Love

    Good lord, I thought I had finished reading ALL of the Internetz today, then came back here and have to start over again – LOL :-) …. Luvz it <3

    • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

      I hear ya David. Been at it all day and now more.

  • outraged
  • Kao Eye

    Today while at the grocery store checkout, i noticed Tom and John on the covers of a few celeb magazines. Even if the facts may be a bit twisted, Scientology itself is making covers again, hooray!!! And Marty, is human first and foremost. He may rub some people the wrong way but i feel his heart is a good one, and deserves to finally live his life as his own and be happy. May this all make him and all ex’s stronger, and able to come out of the cocoon and fly.

  • JB

    I kinda like Rathbun, but he still has the Helter Skelter look in his eyes that most $cientologists have. He’s being careful to say he didn’t do any type of “auditing” on people after he left the church. I hope he didn’t use the word “audit” or “auditing” with people he tried to help, because one of those people may have been a $cientologist spy, pretending to be someone who wants to leave the church. I wish Rathbun well, we all know the hell he has been through since he left the cult.

    • Todd Tomorrow

      Hes grown on me too. Still think there are many secrets they know.

      • coonellie

        Hi Todd, FHFM vouched for you and I’m wondering if you’re viewing GC on HBO in PDX. sorry for questioning you. force of habit after growing up with a sociopathic parent and not all the dots connected. Color me paranoid.

        • Todd Tomorrow

          She is a sweetheart! No, I’m going to be working in the Bay Area though. I’ve seen all but the last 20 minutes and it was incredible.

      • The Dude

        Marty and Mike have too many stories. I don’t trust them. I do think that they are on the road out of the abyss. But the truth will probably never come out. I like them both. But I don’t trust them.
        BIG difference!

        • Todd Tomorrow

          Like murderous secrets!

        • Ella Raitch

          Hey Dude – good to see you still here :)

          • The Dude

            Good too be here…. Troll got me down.
            But not out!

            • Ella Raitch

              You leave, they win!

  • Lurkness

    Wow, Tom must not have been doing his NOTS auditing correctly. Lot’s of BT’s and clusters too! Thanks Anonymous for the uproxx meme link. refresh

    • The Dude

      OMG! Body Thetans are like fractals.

    • MaxSpaceman

      Holy Xenu (or Holy Xemu, considering just which sector of the Marcabian Confederation one hails from)

      Body Thetans and clusters galore ! Yikes !!

    • outraged

      he’s got manboobs

      • MaxSpaceman

        and Manboob Thetans

        • outraged

          the manboob thetans have a nice cushy handhold.

      • Tory Christman

        That need a lift, or a bra :)

        • outraged

          or some pushups. :-}

  • Anonymouse

    “Going Clear” is generating so much buzz there is even the trailer in the videos on Business Insider. Never thought I would see that. Sadly, I live well outside of the US, so unless someone is able to post it on youtube / vimeo / something, I will never get to see it :(

    • Baby

      I would mouse..but I don’t know how.. sigh.. I click and paste and that is it.. someone should be able to help you..

    • The Dude

      Can’t till it come s out! I will try.

    • MaxSpaceman

      part of the distribution deal is that the film goes to Vimeo (don’t recall what month, but not that long after its debut.)

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        Going Clear goes to Vimeo On Demand In September. But a Variety article said “Vimeo acquired exclusive U.S. first-window download-to-own rights to documentary”. May not apply for those outside the US.

    • Always Amazed

      You will be able to see it, it just might take a bit longer. Everyone who wants to see it will be able to see it, ultimately. It is impossible to unring a bell. Tony is doing a great job of reporting most all the stories and information involved in the documentary. Hang in there. It is worth waiting for. 😉

    • Lurkness

      As suggested by some of our neighbors to the North, if you have Skype (or similar) and know someone in the US, hook up on Skype and have them setup camera/iPad to transmit show to you live.

    • ComeToPresentTime

      There is always the bay of pirates, or the torrential ass kickers, both of whom can point you in the right direction.

      • Anonymouse

        HAHAHA, thanks, I was not going to *cough* hint at those, but perhpas someone would be so bold as to, erm, release it into the torrential downpour that should help come down on to the dwarf and his cohorts. 😉

  • Baby

    O/T

    Last night I snooped through fridge found fudge..Hmmm .. So I ate it and thought.. ” This is left over fudge from Tami’s Christmas party.. ” (???) Googled.. Will I die from old fudge? I mean it’s only been in fridge since Dec. ugh..I pitched it.

    So of course for 3 hrs. I was waiting to vomit..diarrhea , frothing at the mouth or die.. My stomach was upset, but I did eat 3 Huge pieces and was drinking a beer.

    When I got back from my eye appointment today my husband asked..

    ” Have you seen the Fudge I bought at Publix, Mon? Wait.. Waaaaaaat? ” I bought Fudge and can’t find it I ..”

    ” Well, why didn’t you tell me that you bought fudge? ” I never thought about it..” ” Well, because you didn’t tell me I almost died!

    His face was priceless..

    • Lurkness

      Thanks for the good belly laugh. Your poor husband. Never a dull moment in Casa Baby.

      • Baby

        There is NEVER a dull moment around here..ever sigh..

        He thinks he’s my dad.. xo

        • The Dude

          Good assumption.LOL!

          • Baby

            Well…Then there’s that..hahaha..

    • what’suppressive

      That’s like Mrs What’sup, punching me awake and being dark on me all day….. “I had a dream you were flirting with my friend Lisa….right in front of me……you’re such a prick”

      • Baby

        hahahha.. Well YEAH !

  • Free Minds, Free Hearts

    Off to bed, tomorrow is Thursday so maybe some little trollsies will show up? Nitey nite, all! Sweet dreams.

    • Baby

      Night honey.. sweet dreams free..awwwww cute picture..

    • outraged

      aw…..
      I love trolls.
      i have a small collection, including the one I played with as a child. All Thomas Dam.

    • The Dude

      Hope you have a good sleep!

    • Ella Raitch

      It’s aawfully quite , considering it’s a Marty day.

    • ComeToPresentTime

      Thursday is Stat Day, right?

    • One Human

      Wow, its mouth droops like DM.

  • http://scientologybollocks.blogspot.co.uk/ media_lush

    Daily Mail Joining in:

    ‘Tom Cruise blasted by Scientology expose director for refusing to comment on ‘tapping Nicole Kidman’s phone and using underpaid workers from church to maintain his plane’

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3011935/Tom-Cruise-blasted-Scientology-expose-director-refusing-comment-tapping-Nicole-Kidman-s-phone-using-underpaid-workers-church-maintain-plane.html#ixzz3VSzGAo56

    • Intergalactic Walrus

      I’m wondering if the Going Clear press coverage is going to happen again and again as it plays in other countries around the world.

  • Todd Tomorrow
    • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

      Shawn Lonsdale, RIP, you are not forgotten. Peter Mansell should be in the hole.

      • ComeToPresentTime

        No one should be in the hole except for Miscavige. And of course that won’t ever happen, for obvious reasons.

        • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

          You’re right, on both points.

    • Tony Ortega

      I’ll say it again, man. Don’t just drop this shit without an explanation, or a reason for what you want people to get out of it, or something. Stop with the Cat Daddy bullshit.

      • ComeToPresentTime

        I’d actually never seen this before, it was a pretty good reminder of what Shawn Lonsdale was doing in Clearwater and also reminded me of his death that was apparently ruled a suicide.

      • Todd Tomorrow

        Loud and clear. I apologize.

    • ComeToPresentTime

      Yeah, Shown Lonsdale committed suicide via carbon monoxide. Suuuuuuure.

    • Donna Cline Sargent

      he wants you to type a sentence or two about why you want to share a video.why you thought to share it,etc…

  • The Dude

    If anyone wants to get in touch with me for anything. I have a new Email. nigelttuffnell@gmail.com. Just for the peeps.
    Kudos on who can tell the movie reference.
    No google.

    • Intergalactic Walrus

      Spinal Tap!

      • The Dude

        It is a toss-up of the movie characters I love the most.
        The Dude,
        Nigel Tuffnell.
        Tough choice.

        • Intergalactic Walrus

          It’s gotta be The Dude for me!

          • The Dude

            Here. Yes. But if you see Nigel anywhere……. Wink, Wink. Nudge,nudge.

      • The Dude

        I am the eggman! coo coo ca choo. Ca coo coo cha coo!

  • Intergalactic Walrus
    • Baby

      That is a big ” FLUNK ” FOR the Sciloons Wally! Woo Hoo

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        Their problem is that they think everyone will make like a Clam and believe everything they spit out and then act accordingly. But the Twitter universe has turned out to be an inhospitable environment for the kind of crap they’ve been spamming. The negative replies that they have been getting are priceless. And just when it seemed they couldn’t get any worse, the other day their favorite word in the tweets seemed to be “whore”. Honestly, what kind of church sends sh*t like this out to strangers on social media? Despicable!

        • Baby

          And we can just sit back and watch in Glee.. because we know exactly what they are doing.. and it is so badddddddd they have no clue..

          • Intergalactic Walrus
            • Baby

              WTF is there hangup with UVA.. Good Lord..I bet the Rolling Stones is thrilled that that story gets played over and over..

              Is that the only thing they have? They are in trouble..ha

            • Intergalactic Walrus

              Remember when Karin Pouw told THR: “In two hours this film racks up more falsehoods, errors, embellished tales and blatant omissions than were committed by Rolling Stone, Brian Williams and Bill O’Reilly combined. By our calculation, the film on average includes at least one major error every two minutes.” Despite the obvious ridiculousness of the statement, I couldn’t help but think that this year’s Fox News Christmas party could experience a little bit of tension. What do you think, Greta?

            • Baby

              Yep..I’m thinking there will be many holding the cans ” Underground..”

            • Guest

              I have never understood the right-wing Christian acceptance of Fox News with Greta over there… Or, for that matter, their love for that Moonie rag The Washington Times.

            • ComeToPresentTime

              Yeah the thing is, there are no false allegations in there.

          • Tory Christman

            Dancing around……https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mACqcZZwG0k
            :) Oh Yeah!!

            • Baby

              Tory.. I dated the love of my life from 1973-74 Broke up.. he married had 2 boys..Me ? Married had 2 girls..

              Met 30 yrs later ( after not seeing or hearing from each other) Moved in with each other 2 weeks later… and Got married to Bob Marley playing in the background..

              This was one of our songs.. xoxox.. Thanks..It made me smile..

            • Tory Christman

              Awwwwwwww Baby! So sweet :) Happy this made you smile!
              “Don’t worrrrrrrrry, ’bout a thing; EVERYTHING ‘S GONNA BE ALLLLL RIGHT!”
              Oh yeah!! :)

            • Baby

              ” EVERYTHING ‘S GONNA BE ALLLLL RIGHT! ”

              and it has been..

              And it is important for all in or in the fence or undecided..

              ” Life is a series of Starting Overs..” ( I read that somewhere too lazy to look..ox)

        • Kristin Rawls

          Not one that really understands, like, public relations or how to talk to strangers.

    • Baby

      Time Out New York theater and cabaret critic, Drama Critics’ Circle president,

  • http://www.tonyortega.org/ DodoTheLaser

    3 Days

    • The Dude

      Amen Brother. How goes the thaw in your neck o’ ta woods?

      • http://www.tonyortega.org/ DodoTheLaser

        Just fine! Thanks, Dude.

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    Ooh! I wanna go!
    “I Took a Tour of Scientology’s Los Angeles (and It Was Pretty Creepy)” http://www.vice.com/read/a-tour-of-scientologys-los-angeles-215

    • http://www.tonyortega.org/ DodoTheLaser

      With so much critical press lately, it’s like media is trying to say – The War Is Over. Because, it really is.

    • anoni81b4u

      Thank you for posting that link. Great article.

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        I’ve been thinking that the Angry Gay Pope ought to offer CO$ tours in Hollywood. Could be quite the “in” thing after Going Clear. Tourists and locals would love it! There’s money in them thar Clams!

    • outraged

      $cientology tours are creepier than train station bathrooms.

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        Yes, but train station bathrooms usually have toilet paper.
        *rimshot*

    • 1subgenius

      That is a pretty good article. I’ve actually called the Celebrity Centre (sic) to see about a room (can you imagine staying there????!!!!), and dining. That was weird enough. Nothing like a normal business. Lots of evasiveness.

      It is worth a read.

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        Check out that table’s centerpiece in the foreground. What is that a potted body thetan?
        (refresh)

        • Rita Gregory

          ‘Little Shop of Horrors’ theme music is playing in my head.

          • Intergalactic Walrus

            We gotta keep Audrey outta that place!

        • Rita Gregory
        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          I’m going with “cactus camera”.

          • One Human

            With microphone.

      • Ella Raitch

        Groan

        To enter the performance, I was offered the choice of paying $10 for a ticket, or buying a book “that we donate to charity.” I went with the option of donating a book to charity, as I wasn’t super into the idea of giving my money to Scientology.

        Once inside, I found out that the book I had purchased to donate to charity was actually a book by L. Ron Hubbard, and the charity it was being donated to was Toys for Tots. I know this because before the evening’s performances started, a man came out on stage to brag that the Church is the world’s biggest donor to Toys for Tots.

        Just let that sink in for second: A spokesperson for the Church was boasting that they are the biggest donor to Toys for Tots, because they make their members buy books that they themselves publish, which are then forced upon needy children.

        Sorry, underprivileged kids of America. I’m gonna donate some Nerf Guns or something to make up for this

        • 1subgenius

          Yeah, that made no sense. $10, or buy a book for $10 that we will donate to charity.
          WTF? Just make admission a $10 donation to “charity”. Why is there an option?
          Makes no sense.

      • Ella Raitch

        So 1sub, when’s the next emeter instalment (apologies in advance if you’ve been asked this many many times already.

        • 1subgenius

          I need to find the questions that are asked in a session for a real demo.
          Plus I haven’t found anyone to be a guinea pig yet. You can do solo auditing but doing that and working the machine, shooting video, etc. gets a little awkward.
          I am going to do one in the meantime just going into more detail on the mechanics of it.
          And I need to do a little upgrade of the battery. Its all operative but it needs it.
          But yeah, I need to get going on this. Insert generic excuses.
          Funny, cause if you go to the youtube I did, someone posted a comment there that they were the person I bought it from.

    • ComeToPresentTime

      Yeah I read that when Vice tweeted it out earlier. I never had the balls to actually take a tour of any of those places. Had enough people who I knew go there for purifs or whatever and would always see the Sea Orgers running around the vicinity that I would never want to set foot in there and get myself on their radar.

      And yeah sure enough, they knew that dude by name after he toured a few of their facilities. OSA has to keep themselves occupied somehow in addition to spamming comments sections with sock accounts and all that.

  • outraged

    What was Wavy Davy thinking when he slapped someone for the 100th time?
    Who gives a flying. What I want to know is:
    What ARE YOU Mr. David FCKING MISCAVIGE THINKING NOW, HUH????
    Nah nah nana nah nana nahhh! YOu lose. Game over, 9th inning, strike out, coach arrested in the dugout.

  • http://www.tonyortega.org/ DodoTheLaser

    What Scientology’s stats will look like? It’s Thursday.

  • Rita Gregory

    Anyone else had any friend requests on FB, from people they don’t know, posed in front of what looked to be the Freewinds? I’ve never heard of this person and they don’t come up on a FB search so they must have a private page.

    • http://www.tonyortega.org/ DodoTheLaser

      You are lucky, Rita. I had friend requests from faceless thetans.

      • Rita Gregory

        I should have saved the pic! But I deleted the requests and now this person won’t come up on a search. Oh well, no biggie, I’m not important enough for them to care what I do! :)

        • http://www.tonyortega.org/ DodoTheLaser

          Exactly. Plus a lot of people confuse FB with Twitter – you really don’t want too many “friends” on FB for a great number of reasons.

          • Rita Gregory

            I know. Almost all my friends are people I know personally and the ones who aren’t are friends of people I trust.

            • http://www.tonyortega.org/ DodoTheLaser

              Yep, same here.

          • Observer

            And the recipes! Dear Xenu, the recipes!

            • http://www.tonyortega.org/ DodoTheLaser

              Guilty as charged. But only like two times, which doesn’t count.

            • Observer

              I don’t mean the occasional recipe. I have a couple of friends that I had to unfollow because they posted several recipes a day, Every. Single. Day. I have another that posts pics of her dinner almost every night, but she posts other stuff too so I deal.

            • http://www.tonyortega.org/ DodoTheLaser

              Hahaha! I feel you.

      • Rita Gregory

        Funny, faceless thetans do come up under the name they used!

    • Intergalactic Walrus

      Is this him? Someone made the same comment this week. The even posted his photo. He is a well known ex-Scientologist. Mark Fisher. (aka The Sex Tripper) Don’t know if it is really him though. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vopRK5atCNc

      • Rita Gregory

        Nope!

        • Intergalactic Walrus

          If I had the time I’d find the comment. It was just the other day. His photo was in front of the freewinds, too, in younger days. I think it was Fisher, but I’m going on my memory and I didn’t pay it much attention.

      • http://www.tonyortega.org/ DodoTheLaser

        Wut?

      • Rita Gregory

        IW you might want to edit out the phrase in parentheses, don’t want to spread OSA crap.

      • Rita Gregory

        Thanks for the edit!

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      I got a postcard Wed for cremation services. Posted it 1,000 comments ago.It included an offer for travel and relocation services. Last time is was plain old mortuaries. OSA’s getting cheap.

      • http://www.tonyortega.org/ DodoTheLaser

        I saw it. It’s almost funny, in Tarantino way.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          I had to laugh. Probably some 17 year old who doesn’t realize at my age, I already have a file called Living Will. Kids.

        • Rita Gregory

          It makes me want to shoop a bunch of little urns with smiley faces traveling on a cruise ship. If I had a better photo program, I’d give it a try.

      • Rita Gregory

        I saw that! Creepy little bastards. No class.

    • Eivol Ekdal

      Valshifter got a FB request…
      http://tonyortega.org/2015/03/25/going-clear-marty-rathbun-on-what-he-was-thinking-during-his-key-moment-in-gibneys-film/#comment-1927288795
      It is always good to check if someone is actually in control of their own FB account before you accept anything. :-)

      • Rita Gregory

        It wasn’t from the same person Val got hers from. Thanks for letting me know.

  • Jack99

    The freedom twitter account is now quoting people having seen the film:

    #GoingClear viewer review: “I had to leave after 20 minutes. I got my money back from ARCLight Cinemas w/an apology from the floor manager”

    Ha ha! You can’t make this stuff up! No, wait… Actually, you CAN make this stuff up!

    • Rita Gregory

      Sounds made up, doesn’t it?

      • Jack99

        If it’s on internet, it must be true! Damn, here I was, hoping it would be a good film…

        • Rita Gregory

          “I’m dating a French model.”

          • Jack99

            “Bonjour!”

            • Rita Gregory

              My high school French teacher would have flunked him for lack of an accent.

    • http://www.tonyortega.org/ DodoTheLaser

      Bawhahahaha! This answers my question about Thursday stats!

      • Rita Gregory

        Starting early today!

    • Ella Raitch

      At least he wasn’t referred to an IJC to get a refund, or forced to disconnect from his family

    • Intergalactic Walrus

      The capitalization of ARC makes me think this was written by a Clam. The theater is the the ArcLight. ARC is a CO$ thing, right?.

    • 1subgenius

      Hmmm, where did they get this “review”?
      Some random person sent it to them, or do they claim to have lifted it from a legitimate movie review site?

      • Jack99

        madeupmoviereviews.com

        • http://www.tonyortega.org/ DodoTheLaser

          Legit.

      • TheMirrorThetan

        It was from pulledoutofdavesarsehole dot com like all their anti-going clear strategy.
        Whoops that sounds like a naughty site. (Sorry JT but I made the name up.)

        • 1subgenius

          Geez, they couldn’t even go to the bother of posting it on a legit site first.
          Its just for the “innies” anyway.

    • generic sock account

      I’m pretty sure I still want to see it.

      • http://www.tonyortega.org/ DodoTheLaser

        Don’t do it. It’s like 2 hours long.

        • generic sock account

          WTF! I could watch 4 TV shows in that same amount of time. This changes everything.

          • http://www.tonyortega.org/ DodoTheLaser

            Yeah man, General Hospital rules!

      • Eivol Ekdal

        Are you going on your birthday? It’s coming up IIRC.

        • generic sock account

          My birthday came and went.

          • Eivol Ekdal

            Happy belated B-Day.

            • generic sock account

              Ty sir

          • Ella Raitch

            How was it?

            • generic sock account

              Hah.

  • JMasiulewicz

    Scenario #8: When MissCabbage gets hauled away by the feds in cuffs, acutely dumbfounded, tears streaming down his face, nothing but a blubbering child. Hauled away by the feds, marched brazenly out through the busiest part of the complex, past as many stunned $cibots as possible. And as dutious $scibots all they whip out their cameras and smartphones and record the momentous event. And then as suddenly emancipated $cibots they undutiously post their footage all over the web and the chat logs are filled with remarks from commentators all saying how much the episode looks like the last scene of the movie Wall Street.

  • Martin Foster

    I’m glad Marty has graduated. Possibly I haven’t completely graduated yet as I continue using some of the tech. I don’t care who invented it first.
    Thinking back I remember being able to relieve pain, anger and anguish using aspects of the tech.
    Hubbard eschewed things like astral projection; hypnosis; psychology, logic etc. Since leaving I have investigated all of the foregoing and found much useful information.
    The CoS did not harm people when it became organised – The harm was done when it made itself essential to the individual and “planet’s salvation” that the true, basic teachings died.

    • chukicita

      That Scn, inc. did no harm when it became organized is simply not true. Just ask Gabe Cazares, Paulette Cooper and a host of others. Potential for harm has always been there, built into Scientology modeled on Hubbard’s own mental issues and predicated on the human power struggles that occur within it.

  • Violet

    It’s been really interesting seeing Rathbun go through this process to get him to where he is now. I kind of groaned years ago when I saw that he still considered himself a Scientologist, but I feel compassion for how hard it would be to process the fact that something to which you devoted so many years was just bull, so maybe he had to try to salvage something good to come out of all those years. Glad his eyes are open now, though. I can’t wait to see the film, though I know for those of us who read Tony here, or who read this and other books, there won’t be anything new, but it’ll be nice to have the truth come to a wider audience.

  • Kristin Rawls

    I’ve been wondering about this question since I first read Reitman’s book: Did Rathbun, Rinder or any of the other high profile defectors ever charge others for this “help” with leaving the Church? If so, then that seems like fairly predatory motivation — and really destructive since these people could have found better help from a qualified therapist. Rathbun could simply have compiled a list and said, “This is a list of qualified mental health professionals with experience helping people recover from trauma experienced in Scientology. And of course I’d be happy to talk with you about my own experience and share any insights I’ve gained from it.” I don’t know… On one level, I realize former high-level Church officials are needed to lend credibility to the narrative — especially allegations of Miscavige’s abuse — but on the other… I sometimes think their voices overwhelm and even marginalize stories from former lower-level workers and believers whose hands really are fairly clean. Janet Reitman’s book — and then Lawrence Wright’s — tended to privilege these higher level voices and offer them a lot more space. Frankly, I’m more interested in hearing from folks who didn’t have as much power and influence at this point. That’s actually one of the things I like about this blog — I can find the stories of people who are not rich and famous on it.

    • Serena Romeo

      No donations were always voluntary. And Marty has clearly stated that many of those who came to him were just out of the Sea Org and couldn’t afford to pay anything. It amazes me that people like you will always find something to criticize. After 27 years in the Sea Org, Marty had no education, no job references, church members calling his job to get him fired. Marty’s blog is free and he hasn’t been paid for all the interviews he’s done. At least he’s making an effort to atone for his mistakes and help others. What are you doing besides being whiny and critical?

  • @nal surprise

    I enjoyed Going Clear, and have newfound respect for everyone who participated.

    That being said, I couldn’t help but notice that Mr Haggis and everyone else in the documentary tend to gloss over what REALLY drew them into this cult. And that, it seems, was a “Hollywood Secret Society” that would always put its own members first. Especially when comes time to make big decisions, on and off set.

    I doubt Haggis and others donated millions of dollars to the cause because of any spiritual reason. They knew what they were doing. They were building a secret empire that is now worth 1.5 BILLION and has its tentacles all over the world.

    I’m sure some people went into Scientology for some help with this or that. But the celebs? There’s a reason this religion was born in Hollywood. It’s almost as if non-Jews all got together and decided to counter that influence with a group of their own. To get the good parts, the good scripts, etc.

    Nothing I have heard in Going Clear properly (or should I say ‘fully’) explains the initial lure of the Church.

    Tell us the truth. Tell us you wanted a shortcut to success. It’s okay, just help us understand the lure.

    • Ralph Hunter

      Well, that certainly is some thinking there. I have to comment on the Jewish cabal you propose, and I think it reeks of anti semitism. This comment effectively derails the integrity of your observations, and makes you look like a chip on your shoulder crank, supporting your screen name and avatar. …. Like all cults, Sci has benefits for its elite members. In fact, it is designed to create an underclass of worker bees, intended to support a vicious bureaucracy through unpaid labor and servitude. The whales and public are the big sources of revenue, that can also be bullied around, spied on and manipulated. I do agree that Haggis is very forthright in disclosing that he desperately hoped to advance his career thru sci. But he actually seems more drawn in by the desire to save his relationship, which despite Scis promise, ended in a long and bitter divorce…How does is in ANY way relate to the Jewish community? You have some nerve, to try to compare the two. The Jewish community is over represented in charity and support for the arts and humanitarian causes. What does sci give to the world? I think Hana and Spanky especially described the lure of Scientology for the new member…a heady mix, a way to change e world one person at a time. Sara somewhat naively describes improving her spirituality….Do not judge everyone by yourself, some people are trying to better the world, or themselves. Some people have more than their own jealousy and an ax to grind. Your anger and resentment of the Jewish community is evident. I’m sure there are a lot of racist websites that would welcome your ‘insights.’ Maybe you should go there and explain to them why you are a failed screenwriter/director/actor.