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Scientology, why are you keeping a cancer patient from seeing his only daughter?

 
Bernie Headley sounded really good on the phone. And he says for now, he feels good. The lung cancer he was diagnosed with in 2004 went into remission after he had a partial lung removal. It came back in 2014, but radiation treatments seem to have made that dormant as well. But then lesions started showing up on his brain.

In 2014, he was told he had three to six months to live after his lung cancer came back. And when he found out he had brain cancer, he was again told he had three to six months to live. But he still has no symptoms, and the effects of his most recent radiation treatment are receding. Doctors are waiting for his body to recover from that, and then in March they’ll do a new set of scans on his brain to see whether the lesions have grown.

“I joke about being the Energizer Bunny,” he told us by phone this week. “But Marc hates when I do that. He actually takes it more seriously than I do.”

The Marc he’s referring to is his son Marc Headley who, with his wife Claire, made a memorable appearance recently on Leah Remini’s A&E series, Scientology and the Aftermath. Marc and Claire described how they escaped from Scientology’s International Base in California in January 2005, and eventually reunited in Lee’s Summit, Missouri, where Bernie was living at the time.

Bernie was ecstatic to get his son Marc back, after losing him to Scientology some 15 years earlier.

“The night Marc called me, he was very tentative. He wasn’t sure how I was going to react. He couldn’t see me on the other end, pumping my fist, saying yes! And I can’t tell you how heartbreaking it was also. At first, Marc thought he had lost Claire.”

As Claire explained on Leah’s show, after Marc made a run for it, she had to pretend that she was through with him and was staying dedicated to Scientology.

 

[Marc and Claire on Leah Remini’s show]

 
Meanwhile, Bernie was hearing from his daughter Stephanie. “She talked to me every day after Marc blew,” he says, using the Scientology term for escaping. (The Headleys insist that Stephanie was only allowed to call as an attempt to track Marc down and get him brought back to the base.) Like her brother Marc, Stephanie Headley had been brought up in the church by her mother and had gone to Int Base after she joined Scientology’s “Sea Organization,” signing its billion-year contract and dedicating her life utterly to the organization. She eventually became the base’s director of communications.

Claire, meanwhile, was still continuing to pretend that she’d given up on Marc when she was allowed off the base for an optometrist appointment at a WalMart in Hemet. She took that opportunity to make a run for it, heading straight for Bernie’s house to be reunited with Marc.

And then Bernie stopped hearing from his daughter. “I lost contact with Stephanie the day Claire left Int Base,” he tells us. “The day Claire left, and they knew where she was going, to my house, then I stopped hearing from Stephanie.”

Bernie said he called the base and was put on hold for an hour when he tried to reach Stephanie and never got through to her. “I called the next day and they said they didn’t know who she was. She was the director of communications at the base and they expected me to believe that.”

He hasn’t heard from his daughter in the 12 years since Claire’s escape, on January 24, 2005. He’s become the target of Scientology’s disconnection policy, even though he was never a Scientologist himself — his unforgivable sin was helping his son escape to freedom.

Today, Marc and Claire each have thriving businesses in Castle Rock, Colorado, and Bernie lives nearby. While she was in the Sea Org, Claire had been forced to have two abortions, which was Scientology policy to keep Sea Org workers from needing to take off time to raise families. Once they got away from the base, however, they started making up for lost time and they now have three boys.

Bernie is happy to be a grandfather to Marc’s boys. But he’s still desperate for news about his daughter, and he knows he may be running out of time.

Through their contacts still in the church, Marc and Bernie learned that Stephanie had been “offloaded” from Int Base and was sent to a backwater facility in Canada — probably, Marc says, as punishment. Not only did Marc and Claire escape from Int Base, but they also later filed lawsuits against the church over the way they were treated in the Sea Org. (Those lawsuits were later dismissed, and an appellate judge who upheld the decision said that although the Headleys had compelling evidence of abuse, they should have sued under a different law, such as false imprisonment.)

Still relying on information they were getting second hand, Bernie and Marc learned that a year and a half ago, Stephanie left the Sea Org, which still frowns on having children, and gave birth to a baby boy. She then went to work for a Scientologist-owned company.

“Some of the people who worked there weren’t Scientologists, and it was Stephanie and her husband’s job to train them in Scientology. But the workers complained to the government, and Stephanie and her husband were fired,” Bernie says.

Watching Stephanie’s Facebook page, they learned that she then went to Mexico, where she turned her Facebook account private. Today, Bernie says, they suspect that she’s returned to Canada, but they don’t know where she is.

“She’s still a Scientologist, and contacting us would ‘threaten her eternity’,” he says, explaining what she must be thinking in Scientology terms.

“It’s not easy. Stephanie was a daddy’s girl. But we keep hoping. We keep trying,” Bernie says.

We asked him if there’s any chance that Stephanie might know about his health challenges.

He says that in 2004, when he was first diagnosed with lung cancer, he was still in touch with her, and she came to see him when he was getting a portion of his lung removed.

“It was the last time I actually saw her. She came for about a week. And her Nextel phone rang constantly — I think they were keeping track of her.”

Marc and Claire escaped from the base in 2005, and then in 2008 they all received disconnection letters at the same time.

“I got one from Stephanie. Marc got one from his mom, and Claire got one from her mom. Marc’s mom lived in Ohio, Claire’s mom lived in La Crescenta, and Stephanie lived in Canada. But their letters were all dated the same day, and all postmarked from the same place, with the same return address — Scientology’s Hollywood Guaranty Building on Hollywood Boulevard.”

In her letter, Stephanie tried to convince her father that nothing has really changed between them, except that he chose to side with Marc, who was trying to destroy the church…

Nothing has changed in our relationship, except for you chose to befriend someone who is actively attacking what I do and love to get back at some personal vendetta insted of being logical and resolving one’s own problems and being responsible for them…The fact of the matter is that what Marc has done in the past three years has only acted to pull the family more apart than ever instead of bringing it together….Marc should take responsibility for whatever happened and handle that and stop blaming everyone for this.

The letter — sent from a Scientology address — is proof, Bernie says, that Stephanie has cut herself off from him simply because the church has told her so.

In October 2014, when they learned that Bernie’s lung cancer had returned, Marc and Claire reached out to each of Stephanie’s aunts and uncles and asked for their assistance, telling them that Bernie had been told he had three to six months to live. Doctors had told him he wouldn’t live to see that Christmas. Stephanie’s mother, Trudy Hensley, responded by telling her brother that neither she or Stephanie would ever speak to Bernie again.

Despite that, Bernie continues to hold out hope that Stephanie will eventually change her mind, and he maintains a website, asking her to contact him.

 

 
He’s not giving up, but he’s not sure that Stephanie really knows what his health situation is. If someone knows her, please get in touch with us to let us know where she is, and so we can let her know that Bernie is trying desperately to see her again before it’s too late.

Why, Scientology, are you keeping this father and daughter apart?

 
——————–

Scientology not happy with LA Times voting story

The LA Times got a lot of mileage out of their story this week showing that the only voting precinct in the deeply blue sea of Los Angeles that went for Trump included Scientology’s headquarters. We’ve long known that Scientologists tend to lean right (although we do know left-leaning former church members), and Mike Rinder has explained how Scientologists tend to vote as a bloc if they’re told the church favors a candidate.

But we’re intrigued by the reaction from Scientology vice president Janet Weiland, who expressed her displeasure with the story at a neighborhood forum. Janet’s response was spotted by Jeffrey Augustine, who sent us a screengrab…

 

Jeffrey pointed out to us that the Self Realization Fellowship is staffed by people who go home at night, and would be registered to vote where they live, not where they work.

But we love that reaction from Janet, who has a colorful history with the church. She tried to intimidate Tory Christman out of boarding a plane when Tory was leaving Scientology and going to see other former church members. More recently, she tried to shut down a Scientology protester by getting him in trouble with the organization that ran the transitional home where he was living. And even with those unsavory tasks, she managed to get honored at the White House last year. (Thanks, Obama.)

Her reaction here is curious. The Times established pretty conclusively that the Scientologists of Big Blue voted for Donald Trump, who won the election. Why not own it?

 
——————–

Scientology gets political — in Hungary

One of our correspondents in Hungary gave us this interesting update on what’s happening in that country…

The local press is reporting that the former head of Scientology in Hungary is founding a political party.

The person in question is Katalin Weith. The party is called Magunkért Mozgalom, or Movement for Us. She is setting this up with nine other people, several of whom have strong ties to Scientology or Scientology-associated groups here. She mentions the religious law that came into effect in 2010 as being a point where religion and politics crossed paths and that it wasn’t a good thing because many religious groups lost their official status.

The 2010 law said that only those groups that had operated in Hungary for 100 years could receive all the benefits that being a religion confers. It also introduced a social benefit aspect. Either way it shut down any hope Scientology had in Hungary to reap the tax rewards of being a religion. The church was furious. By comparison, the Salvation Army also lost its status – they don’t have a 100 year history here yet – however their reaction was awesome. They said that while it was disappointing it wouldn’t change anything they do here, and true to their word they keep doing charity work.

There are 10 founders of the new party. Weith is one, and in the interview she claims not to have been in an Org since 2010. She also says she has developed her own set of views, but doesn’t elaborate. Other founders include Shelley Duncan, Attila Vegh and his brother Peter Vegh. Peter is the head of the Scientology front group Citizens Commission on Human Rights, or Állampolgári Bizottság az Emberi Jogokért.

Weith says that the party will contest the general elections in 2018, and will be opening offices for the political party in every megye (Hungary’s equivent to US states) by the end of March.

— Markthehungarian

 
——————–

Nerdwriter on ‘The Master’

Nerdwriter Evan Puschak makes some excellent observations about how Scientology auditing “works” in his latest essay, looking at the processing scene in Paul Thomas Anderson’s 2012 movie, The Master. We have a feeling the Scientologists who cry bloody murder when you tell them auditing involves hypnosis are not going to like this one bit.

We’ll say again what we’ve been saying since this film premiered almost five years ago: PTA’s original script was much, much better and was much more about Scientology. We have a theory that it took so many years from Anderson’s initial research into Scientology to actually filming it that his passion for the subject had cooled somewhat and he let the movie become more of a vehicle for Joaquin Phoenix to chew up vast acres of scenery. Art-film lovers loved it, but for us, you knew you were in for a slog from the initial shot of Phoenix’s Freddie Quell staring over a gunwale, a shot that lasted about 12 minutes longer than we could stand. (OK, so it was 30 seconds. But still an eternity in film time.)

Sadly, what got left out of the original script were all the best jabs at L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology. What’s left is still interesting, but the film’s overall weirdness and glacial pace is probably why it isn’t talked about all that much now — well, until Puschak resurrected it. He does an excellent job here and we agree with all of the points he’s making. We just wish The Master had been better.

 

 
——————–

 
HowdyCon 2017: Denver, June 23-25. Go here to start making your plans.

 
——————–

3D-UnbreakablePosted by Tony Ortega on January 27, 2017 at 07:00

E-mail tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Our book, The Unbreakable Miss Lovely: How the Church of Scientology tried to destroy Paulette Cooper, is on sale at Amazon in paperback, Kindle, and audiobook versions. We’ve posted photographs of Paulette and scenes from her life at a separate location. Reader Sookie put together a complete index. More information about the book, and our 2015 book tour, can also be found at the book’s dedicated page.

The Best of the Underground Bunker, 1995-2016 Just starting out here? We’ve picked out the most important stories we’ve covered here at the Undergound Bunker (2012-2016), The Village Voice (2008-2012), New Times Los Angeles (1999-2002) and the Phoenix New Times (1995-1999)

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of L.A. attorney and former church member Vance Woodward
UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists
GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice
SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

Other links: Shelly Miscavige, ten years gone | The Lisa McPherson story told in real time | The Cathriona White stories | The Leah Remini ‘Knowledge Reports’ | Hear audio of a Scientology excommunication | Scientology’s little day care of horrors | Whatever happened to Steve Fishman? | Felony charges for Scientology’s drug rehab scam | Why Scientology digs bomb-proof vaults in the desert | PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer | The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill | Scientology boasts about assistance from Google | The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

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  • stillgrace2

    I have few words today because I’m hurting from the news of Bernie’s illness. I like him so much.
    I’m hoping and praying for at least two miracles!

    • Bernie Headley

      Whenever the word cancer is said, the worst case scenarios emerge. Fortunately for me, I have managed to kick its ass so far. I feel fine and I am living my life as I want to live it. That is not to say I can’t have some sort of issue that pops up out of nowhere, but I will not dwell on it. The pain of not having Stephanie in my life is far worse than cancer!

      • beauty for ashes

        I bet Marc and Claire are very proud of you. You remind me a lot of my mom who was diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer that metastasized to her spine in August. She is currently kicking it’s ass, and regained so much of her life that I no longer consider myself a caretaker. This is her second round with cancer, the first was breast/lymph cancer twenty years ago.
        She also is a American Cancer Society volunteer. We have found a lot of resources to help us, as well as through the Council on Aging. Just in case you need anything, like rides, or meals on wheels during treatment, or any number of things. I hope you get every support you need. 🙂

        • jayla197145

          Beauty, I’m so sorry that your Mom is going through this, and has gone through cancer before. She sounds like such a fighter, and so do you. I’m so glad she is kicking it’s ass! I wish all the very best for both of you, and lots of love, xoxo

          • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

            Beauty and her mum are warriors 🙂

            • beauty for ashes

              love warriors <3 🙂

          • beauty for ashes

            It’s really amazing to watch. Like Bernie, people really can defy diagnosis! I haven’t been able to do this ;p, but my mom is every day, and I just can’t imagine that Marc isn’t still scared and grateful too. 🙂

            • jayla197145

              XOXO!!

      • AntoniaW

        I have a daughter, can’t imagine not seeing her. Sending thoughts & prayers from the UK.

      • stillgrace2

        I feel better reading this … thank you. Regarding Stephanie: the word is out now. Someone in the know might approach her out of the limelight. As Bette Davis said in “The Whales of August”: “You can never tell!” My best wishes to you, Bernie.

      • Davka

        Bernie, you and my mom both – stupid cancer likes to metastasize, but modern medicine and strong atitude together can take you very far, and I know that you have family looking out for you, which helps tremendously. I can only hope that somehow Stephanie can see out enough to call, smoke signal, something, to let you know she’s there. I can’t imagine not being there for my mother. I hope your daughter is soon there for you.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    Tony Ortega lunched once with the real actual live Karin Puow.
    He still raves about the Chilean sea bass, though there’s no mention
    of whether clams were on the menu.
    Fortunately, in the dishonourable tradition of certain cults which shall remain nameless,
    the ASC had PIs who were doing electronic surveillance of the lunch.

    T.O: “So, how do you find the shrimp?”

    K.P. He’s fine – he hasn’t screamed at me all week.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/9c655f2326eb205ecb8d21f77a7923a4a5b23cf1669f15a8dd1730eb73300608.jpg

    • What’sup

      KP. Excuse me, waiter. We’ll get 3 bottles of the Napa red, 4 pints of ale and two double Hendrick’s and tonics…….for starters. Don’t go too far now.

      T.O. I think you have me confused with John Sweeney.

      • daisy

        I knew I liked that John Sweeney .

      • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

        Snort!

  • flyonthewall

    is it normal to go camping in the winter? Unless you’re a survivalist freak of course

    • Kestrel

      Yes, depending on your latitude.

      • flyonthewall

        well you live in a geographical region that has summer and spring, nice ones. Why would you go camping in the freezing winter and sleep in your car with a propane fueled heater?

        • Kestrel

          We don’t get a lot of freezing winter here, and South Padre Island rarely does. I wouldn’t sleep in a car with a propane-fueled heater. I’m not a fan of carbon monoxide.

          • flyonthewall

            espec with the small kids!? I asked her not to do that and said it was dangerous

            • Kestrel

              Yeah. They’ll be the first to go. Like canaries in a mine.

            • flyonthewall

              so freakin stupid. If anything happens and she survives or even the husband at home who knew what they were doing…they could have charges pressed against them

            • Kestrel

              As they should, should the children be harmed.

            • flyonthewall

              oh but it’ll be ok bc it has a sensor that shuts it off if the monoxide gets too high or the oxygen gets too low so it’s fine. She actually said this to me.

            • Kestrel

              Sounds like a night to look forward to.

              /sarcsasm

            • flyonthewall

              how is her husband ok with this?? This is making me sick

            • Kestrel

              Is this camping trip scheduled during Super Bowl weekend?

            • flyonthewall

              idk, why?

            • Kestrel

              Maybe he wants to watch uninterrupted.

            • flyonthewall

              i just realized that after i hit post. smh. No, he’s not like that. Idiots still

          • Franklin Adams

            I’ve been wanting to get over to South Padre Island and shake off some of the ice this whole freaking winter. I got to go to Arizona and defrost last year, but this year’s been rough.

        • Kestrel

          I would like to add that I find it impossible to camp when it’s still over 90 degrees at 10:00pm, so I don’t do camping in August and September around here.

    • What’sup

      It totally depends on where you live and camp. We have mild winters here with warn sunny days, so not weird. If you live in say…someplace they hate pants……like Norway. That’s super weird.

      • flyonthewall

        I’m sayin though, the summer and spring here are fine (summers can get scorching sometimes) and the winters, espec now, are fuckin’ freezing. Why go camping in that? And why sleep in your fuckin car with a portable heater with two small kids?? My wife ever told me she wanted to do that, I’d be like no that’s not happening, you’re not normal. These people are friends of mine but they’re not normal

        • daisy

          I do not get it. I have a friend who goes ice fishing. A litttle shack on a frozen lake . Why ??

          • flyonthewall

            I guess if it’s cold most of the year and you’re use to it but if you have seasons and have a choice then I have no clue why you’d do that.

          • Franklin Adams

            Well, if you’re fishing “Southern Georgia style”, meaning with explosives, you don’t need to buy ice that way, and you do otherwise. However the shockwaves tend to disrupt the little shack on the lake’s ice thing, and its hard to get enough people together outside to fry and eat the fish when its 12 below.

            Aside from that I don’t get it either.

        • jayla197145

          Fly, did you ever see Fubar (the movie)? Their version of camping is really bizarre too. it is not during winter. But my sister said, “Oh, yes, that is how my boyfriend camps..” He is no longer her boyfriend..but I guess a lot of Maritimers apparently camp like that. xo

          • flyonthewall

            This? No I have not. It seems like the movie Gummo but in real life.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eo5ZI9E7voY

            • jayla197145

              Ohhhh!! I remember Gummo, wasn’t that the guy that did “Kids”? But Fly if you get the chance Fubar is a good movie. Gummo I found disturbing. Not that it wasn’t well done, but just disturbing. XO

            • flyonthewall

              Larry Clark, yeah. I could see it being disturbing for sure. I will put this on the list, thnx

            • jayla197145

              Fly, can I ask you a favour? Can you ask Johnny Tank to contact me? I left a message at one of his old comments. I don’t mean any harm I just want to ask him something. But yes Larry Clark, he does some disturbing movies…XO

            • flyonthewall

              ok, I don’t know him off the Bunker but next time I see him around I’ll tell him you’re stalk..I mean, looking for him.

            • iampissed

              You have been on a roll today my man and appreciate it.

            • jayla197145

              LOL Thank you Fly. 🙂 🙂 XO

    • Frodis73

      I do not get it either, but there are people that do this. I was invited to do this about 7 years ago or so. You can imagine my reply.

      • Kestrel

        “Why, yes, I’d love to camp out along the banks of the Cuyahoga in February!”

      • flyonthewall

        I imagine it would be same as mine. You have a house, people! Use it

      • beauty for ashes

        Phhhhhffffftttt?

    • beauty for ashes

      camping is barbaric. also it takes the joy out of sleeping, which is one of my great joys.

      • TheLurkingHorror

        I don’t know much about camping, but sleeping is one of my favorite things, too. 🙂

    • I have done it. It is cool to see some of the popular beauty spots with nobody around. It appeals less as I get older though. I pack plenty of warm clothes and sleeping gear.

      • flyonthewall

        well you are a stronger man than me, I don’t do cold well at all. Very low tolerance for it. I can do heat but not cold.

        You ever see The Revenant? Might make you think 2x about winter camping again

        • I saw it – made me want to go winter camping. Maybe it was the Jack London stories or “The Cremation of Sam McGee” by that other bloke.
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJNZwuamwj0

          • flyonthewall

            Jack London, I saw the White Fang movie but never read his work I don’t think. Into the Wild was a really good wilderness survival movie, based on a true story. See you don’t actually have to go winter camping, just watch the movie

            • The Jack London story I read when I was young was “To Build a Fire”. It’s a story about a man and his dog’s battle against the cold.

            • What’sup

              Into the Wild. Based on a true story, only the facts have been changed to make it more interesting.

            • flyonthewall

              inspired by?

            • flyonthewall

              is this one of your home movies?

            • No – I just a dream.

            • GoneToPlaid

              The Sea Wolf was pretty good.

            • flyonthewall

              cool, thnx

          • flyonthewall

            that story was really good, never heard of it before. Cash’s narration was perfect

            • stanrogers

              Just about every Canadian has it memorized. That, and The Shooting of Dan McGrew. Robert W. Service is a bit of an institution up here. We’ve also got Stephen Leacock if you want the Canadian take on Mark Twain.

            • daisy

              I didn*t know those poems were a Canadian thing. I just thought they were my father*s thing. Yes I have them memorized too.

          • daisy

            My dad*s favorite poem.

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      I’d happily camp at any time of year. Best night’s sleep you’ll ever have!

      • flyonthewall

        No! I am not the type that has to be comfortable all the time, I just really don’t like cold

        • Let’s go – I will provide ear muffs and coco.

          • flyonthewall

            mmmm…ok!

            no, not really

      • DoveAlexa

        Where I lived that’s very true, you’d sleep like the dead… because -30C.

      • I sleep better in the cold. We have the windows open, goes to 38F at night (or colder), and we never have the heat on.

        • daisy

          Oh you are lucky, I am temperature incompatible with every person I have ever lived with. Once at a party it seemed to get quite hot all of a sudden. 3 of my friends turned up the thermometer on their way to the bathroom.

    • stanrogers

      My bosses in the military used to think it was a hoot. They’d give us a special invitation with no “I don’t think I’ll be able to make it” option on the RSVP and everything. Forty below in a hooch. Fun times!

      • flyonthewall

        yay! woohoo! *shakes head no*

  • JJ

    Camping in January. Mebee. I am thinking dress really warm, bring more food than you’d usually take, let people know you are going, tune up yer car, bring chap stick, don’t poke at sleeping bears, know it is not gonna be like summertime camping, realize you have to defrost then toast marshmallows, more chap stick.
    Mostly, I imagine, winter campers are actually hunters. Totally different breed of outdoors type here.
    Least the best camp sites is probably open. No long queue at the restrooms…

    • Kestrel

      Expect the restrooms to be closed in freezing weather to protect the pipes.

    • Franklin Adams

      I’m an Army vet. My first permanent party unit was a cavalry squadron in the 11th ACR and as a result, I dig the whole “scouts out”, go into the wilderness where nobody can find you and chill for a few days thing.

      However, if I’m not getting paid for it or otherwise have a very good reason, there is no way in hell that I’d subject myself to camping in January, at least not here. Maybe back home in Florida where its in the 60’s (if not warmer), but not anywhere north of about Ocala or maybe the prairie near Gainesville.

  • beauty for ashes

    OT Singin’ in the Rain with Debbie Reynolds is on now on Turner Classic Movies <3 <3 <3
    ETA ~ I forgot I rewound , it started @ 6:00 , so sorry. But they are doing 24 hours of Debbie Reynolds tribute, with beautiful intros and stories by Ben Mankewiecz

    • Intergalactic Walrus

      What happened to Robert Osborne, is he still on TCM? I can’t remember the last time I saw him on there. I miss him 🙁

      • beauty for ashes

        I miss him too. I do like their new guest host Miss Vasquez.
        He is old and does deserve the retirement. I do suspect he needed to off air for health reasons as well. But I love him too. Nothing will ever replace Robert Osborne, and that warm feeling in my heart when he is about t o introduce a movie and tell us a story <3 <3 <3

        • Intergalactic Walrus

          Osborne on TCM was part of my life for over 30 years. You could always turn on the TV and there he was. And there was something very comforting about that. I was shocked to find out he’ll be 85 in a few months. I remember a few years ago when he left for a while but came back. The last time I saw him on there, his voice seemed a little weak but I couldn’t imagine TCM without him. I haven’t really seen Vasquez but Ben Mankiewicz is a favorite. I liked him in those “TCM Hideaways” segments he did driving around in a convertible with Tom Brown even before he started hosting. But I do miss his goatee. Bill Hader was good with intros on the weekend kid films. I even remember watching Bob Dorian and then Nick Clooney introducing classic movies back on AMC. Alas, nothing lasts forever 🙁

  • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

    This is totally off-topic but I just have to say it: Ann Coulter is a horrible, vile person who shouldn’t be allowed to call herself a woman. To all survivors of sexual assault all I can say is I’m so sorry that people like her get ANY platform to speak publicly. I am so disgusted I don’t even know what else to say. (F5)
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/9602c553e34c3c851adafa6d5d387125772e5d605bc743e77cf34c8b68436ee0.png

    • beauty for ashes

      sociopath. SMDH!

    • jayla197145

      I agree NOLA, I HATE Ann Coulter.

      • Liberated

        I hate her too…she was quoted saying pro neo-nazi stuff on twitter.
        I can’t understand why Bill Maher considers her a friend. Huh?

        • daisy

          I think he thinks much of her rhetoric is an act., also she always could be booked as a guest on his other show.

        • jayla197145

          I know, eh? I’ve heard him say “oh this is my ex-wife. Ann Coulter..” Unless he is just trying to prove that he can be “nice” to people with opposing views..but actually I know what you mean, he goes a bit lightly with her…

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      1. Don’t put drugs in women’s drinks.

      2. When you see a woman walking by herself, leave her alone.

      3. If you pull over to help a woman whose car has broken down, remember not to rape her.

      4. If you are in an elevator and a women gets in, don’t rape her.

      5. When you encounter a woman who is asleep, the safest course of action is to not rape her.

      6. Never creep into a woman’s home through an unlocked door or window, or spring out at her from between parked cars, or rape her.

      7. Remember, people go to the laundry room to do their laundry. Do not attempt to molest someone who is alone in a laundry room.

      8. Use the Buddy System! If it is inconvenient for you to stop yourself from raping women, ask a trusted friend to accompany you at all times.

      9. Carry a rape whistle. If you find that you are about to rape someone, blow the whistle until someone comes to stop you.

      10. Don’t forget: Honesty is the best policy. When asking a woman out on a date, don’t pretend that you are interested in her as a person; tell her straight up that you expect to be raping her later. If you don’t communicate your intentions, the woman may take it as a sign that you do not plan to rape her.

      • lori banister

        You are a treasure. Your inherent kindness inspires me. Keep sharing with us.

    • MostSpecialAgent Joe McClaine

      She doesn’t even believe what she says, it’s all about making bucks from the rubes, by selling her snide hate books.
      She was fading away, then she latched on to Trump like a pit bull.

      • Todd Tomorrow

        Exactly, her attempt at remaining relevant. Psycho!

    • Franklin Adams

      Wow. What’s worse is that Universal Press Syndicate give her that platform. I find it funny that the Arizona Daily Star, which isn’t exactly known for being Liberal (at all) dropped her ass a few years ago and IIRC equated her with a writer at Pravda or Völkischer Beobachter.

    • FredEX2

      She’s despicable. Perhaps she should offer her services to help all those men out. What trash. She says things that are so thoroughly disgusting and extreme…her way of thinking is scary…and degrading.

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      Posting the full pic as that one cut off her account handle. It was indeed her spewing this crap….which btw has zero to do with immigration. (F5)
      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/be9ca3fd9977c95cdeb888f2fb74e7cdec363cda60e6e842c91fa60b7c238e8c.png

      • flyonthewall

        Really? She’s just blatantly saying outrageous things for attention. Sad!

        • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

          She’s about to get a whole lot of attention that she will not enjoy. Degrading rape victims and excusing their rapists? She can rot as far as I’m concerned. Bitch!

          • Todd Tomorrow

            She feeds off that attention.

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              That is a very sad existence to live in.

          • flyonthewall

            is she being sarcastic in response to that comment about Mexicans entering illegally?

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              Even if she is, I don’t care. There is sarcasm and then there is just ‘ignorance for attention’. Neither lifts my opinion of her. Rape is not “material” for ANYONE!

              There is no excuse she can give that makes that comment okay. I’ve sat in the hospital and held my friends hand while she went through the degrading process of a rape kit so F**K HER and her ignorant mouth. She’s reached Miscavige level on my Scum-O-Meter.

    • Todd Tomorrow

      What does dating have to do with rape? ann you turn men gay!

    • kemist

      It have to congratulate her for managing to inspire revulsion in all genders.

      In women, for the truly revolting concept that they owe sex to everything with a dick, and that their worth is dependent upon some douchebag’s idea of what is “attractive”.

      In men, for the equally revolting concept that their dicks renders them incapable of understanding and respecting consent.

      You’ve got to admit that that takes effort.

      • Frodis73

        Great comment.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    Camping is all dependent on knowing how to do it and having good gear.
    Winter, summer, doesn’t matter.
    It’s miserable if done wrong.
    That is true for sex, religion, alcohol, elections, …

    http://www.backpacker.com/gear/sleeping-bags/mountaineering/fjallraven-polar-30-sleeping-bag/

    This photo was taken the day after we had tornado warnings, on an island, no way in except hike and paddle.
    The portage wasn’t that bad.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ebc9840d9cc86d56216d2f86adfa163bd0c9d75fb52594f975ff64b311f3888d.jpg

    • flyonthewall

      a camping baby! That’s ridiculous. I remember this pic pretty sure. There was another of you guys on the water IIRC

  • What’sup

    I got numbers 1and 2 in the wrong order. I thought this would be Australia’s second favourite song of 2016 but the people spoke and the electoral college kept out of it.

    Triple J Hottest 100 2016….#1 https://youtu.be/Ly7uj0JwgKg

    • flyonthewall

      they didn’t mention koalas or crocodile dundee once. Boo

  • daisy

    oooo

    • What is happening Daisy

      • daisy

        I rested on CNN for a moment . I know better.

        • Oh, glad you are okay.

          • daisy

            thanks for checking <3 <3

        • stanrogers

          DON’T READ THE COMMENTS!!!! Except on the Bunker. Always read the comments on the Bunker. Well, except those comments. And stay away from that channel, that channel, that whole group of channels over there, and especially that channel.

    • Franklin Adams

      She get into another fistfight?

    • Liberated

      Good one.

      • daisy

        I despise her. You can argue that Donald Trump acts because he has a personality disorder. It is his nature. She blatantly spews vial and misinformation , that she knows damn well is lies and mixes her own with it. She is the worst.

  • downtherabbithole

    Bernie you are the father I have always dreamed of having. My wish for your daughter is she will find her way home to you and know the comfort and joy of a fathers love.

    • I think I told this to Bernie before – he very much reminds me of my own Dad.
      Love and a hug Bernie.

      • downtherabbithole

        I had a absent father and seeing a father so wanting his child leaves me wishing I had a Bernie in my life.

  • flyonthewall

    Feel the Bern

  • Baby

    Quick drive by..

    Bernie.. I am so sorry that you are experiencing the loss of your daughter and going through the treacherous roller coaster that is named Cancer. Positive energy and prayers heading your way.

    • daisy

      * waving frantically Baby , hey Baby. I live blogged big haired babies on the Kimmel show for you. There was a bunch of babies with big hair , there don*t you feel like you saw now.

      • Baby

        well thank you darlin..absolutely

    • <3 Baby

      • Baby

        <3 Baby

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      (((((hugs)))))

      • Baby

        (((((hugs)))))

  • flyonthewall

    RIP John Hurt

    I hate this world

    • What?
      Bugger!

    • iampissed

      Oh my.

    • Franklin Adams

      You’ve got to be fucking kidding me. I’m gonna have to go track down “I, Claudius” again now. And maybe the Elephant Man but I just watched Twin Peaks again so I’m not sure my mind can handle that much David Lynch.

    • Frodis73

      Sigh. With both the book and movie 1984 on my mind daily. What a shitty week.

    • beauty for ashes

      It’s okay he was just on that show Humans, and he was a scientist who could make people who were dead into robots instead, so that’s probably what he did Fly. He’ll never really die. <3 <3 <3

    • Liberated

      Thanks Fly, for posting the original script for The Master.

      • flyonthewall

        yw. It was really good I thought, too bad it changed

  • nottrue
  • Baby

    I am still suffering from the results of Cipro poisoning. There isn’t a damn thing I can do about it.. The Dr. said..
    ( Of course adding .. We can’t prove it’s from Cipro..They all do) to not get lawsuits .. that is just a given.

    I have to be patient and let it run it’s course..but he couldn’t give me a definitive answer when .
    Patience is NOT nor ever has been a virtue of mine.

    I am a realist. I know what I have. I know it has to run it’s course.

    https://floxiehope.com/lisas-recovery-story-cipro-toxicity/

    My wrist tendon is ruptured.
    http://www.citizenvox.org/2008/08/26/a-silver-lining-for-cipro-victims/

    I’m not here for pity.. I’m just telling you what’s going on.. and to inform all of you to avoid these drugs at all cost.

    Love and miss you.. xoxo baby

    • downtherabbithole

      Wrapping you in very tight (((hug))).

      • Baby

        (HUGS) thanks rabbit. sigh..

    • Franklin Adams

      I’m convinced that Cipro’s the reason I’m not still in the Army. Funny how I didn’t start tearing ligaments until after I took that garbage for a fairly minor infection.

      We’re not going anywhere though, get better and come back when you can.

      • Baby

        Franklin .. I went in for a continuous runny nose.. with a touch of bronchitis.. and the damn Dr. gave me this dangerous drug. FOR 2 WEEKS.. 500mgs.

        So literally we have been poisoned. Thanks honey.. Yes..the tearing of the ligaments is exactly it.

        Ligaments And Tendons.. terrible painful consequences.

        Thanks honey..

    • iampissed

      Wishing you all the best Baby.

      • Baby

        Thanks pissed. I will take it sweetie… I cried last night to my husband ” I just want to feel like I used to before Cipro..”

        and THAT includes my Freakin tumor I have in my pineal gland.

        • iampissed

          I’m so sorry and I thank you for the warning. I’ve been on Cipro before and had no problems.
          I will take your web sites to heart and ask more questions. Take heart you have helped someone to ask more questions.

          • Baby

            Thanks pissed. I do want to add.. NOT all feel these side effects..but should never have been given to me.. Over 60? errrrgh

    • beauty for ashes

      I believe you, a friend of mine took Cipro and Bam ~ onset of dysautonomia which never went away. And she already has MS. This is why is will never take Cipro. Some weird precaution.
      Sending you all kinds of love and good vibes <3 <3 <3

      • Baby

        My immune system is absolutely shot beauty..

        I take nutrients..eat healthy.. drink lots of water.. very little diet coke.. I have lost weight.. Yay.. but don’t go anywhere.. pffffft. I’m sick of it.

        I’m sorry about your friend honey. sigh

      • April

        I had a form of dysautonomia, neurocardiogenic syncope when I was a small child, but thankfully grew out of it by the time I started school. My poor parents were scared half to death because every time I started crying I’d pass out for a few minutes, turning blue around the mouth and everything.

        • beauty for ashes

          You are so lucky to have grown out of it!!! Thank God April!! That does sound scary.

        • Vaquera

          April, I have the same thing, but it’s set off by standing up or bending over to pick something up. Luckily taking a sodium chloride tablet every morning quells the head rushes and black outs.

          • April

            Thankfully I haven’t had an episode since I was a child. I don’t even remember them. I’ve heard many, many stories from my parents and grandmother though, who has sworn (only semi-jokingly) for the past 40 years that I’m the cause of her “bad nerves.”
            I do get over-heated really easily, though, which causes me to feel dizzy but not really pass out.

            • Vaquera

              Thanks Grandma!

      • Baby

        MereCatWatcher Baby • 5 hours ago
        Thank you for your reply. I know what it is to have an “energy management” disability for years. It helps me to expect the results of activity and do less than I think I can or want to. And plan on downtime. It’s like going through a buffet and only getting what I know I can eat or feeling ok about leaving the plate half full. I let people think I’m slow to get things done, but I don’t like it.

        I’m concerned about your tendons and ligaments. I hope you get some excellent care for them. I wear gelled bicycle gloves from body geometry which cushions the palms and saves some reinjury. This was on the advice of a hand therapist. It also helps keep my hands warm. I have eleven different can and bottle openers and do not hesitate to ask someone with superior muscle strength to open something.

        I also got my doctor to certify me for Nls (national library service) audiobooks because I can’t hold a book. This is the service for blind and physically handicapped people. I find listening to audiobooks good when I am hanging out in bed.

        Hugs.
        1 • Reply•Share ›

        Avatar
        Baby MereCatWatcher • in a few seconds
        Well we make a great team Cat.. I am feeling the same. Amazing how I wish I were bleeding or walking around with an arrow in my head.. sometimes.

        This invisible disease thing is really bugging me. My friend on the Island asked me 2 days ago if I would go on a cruise with her. She had the tickets for a Bahama Cruise for 3 days and could not understand why I would turn it down.

        She knows what I have been gone through and she just said..” You can sleep on the ship.. we can just walk around and you’ll be fine.. She attempted to make me feel guilty for NOT being with her.

        Thank God I am old enough not to be manipulated because I didn’t have the energy to walk out to the car let alone the Bahamas. I am not asking for sympathy..Just understanding. I’m sure she’s pissed.

        She has told me before..I’m tired too I just fight through it. I would have had a terrible time on the cruise. We all know our bodies. I just would have.

        beautyforashes ( beauty) also knows about energy depletion.. she has a condition that absolutely zaps her. The same as my daughter.. EDS/POTS ..( My daughter the nurse swears that I have it too..)

        I don’t care what I have.. I just feel like crap. .. and I link it to Cipro.

        Oh the gelled gloves sound great. I will look into that. It’s funny because I have been listening to audiobooks. Glad you are too.

        I felt great..I woke up cleaned house for an hr. and crashed..ha..went straight to bed. Good Lord. I always have 4 dogs sleeping with me. That is a blessing.

        Thank you.. you have lifted my spirits more than you know. It is wonderful to get validation. Sorry you have to be miserable though.. but Like Beauty, you and me..and I’m sure others. ( Uh Lasare for one)

        It is the new normal.. ppppppfffffft. Thank God we have each other.. xox love baby

        • beauty for ashes

          I just want to cry(okay I already am) and hug all of you guys. its amazing you think, okay well its me, but witnessing it in others, its just not fair. I wish I had giant Angel wings to protect and comfort all of you.
          <3 <3 <3 You can always come vent to me ALWAYS Y'all, seriously. I've been both a bartender and a makeup artist! And I have three chronic illnesses! 🙂

          • Baby

            I feel the same way beauty.. to hear other’s stories just guts me. The funeral plans for your sister that you couldn’t possibly accomplish with your energy level..

            Just saddened me so much.. I just woke up after sleeping 12 hrs. and I could go back to bed. The only reason I woke up is Mac walked in the bedroom and put his hand on my shoulder.

            We are in this together love. xo baby

            • beauty for ashes

              Is there anything I can do for you, do you guys need anything?

            • Baby

              hahaha.. Do you? smooches.. xoxox

              All I need is what I have A safe place for us to vent scream cry.. and laugh.. and I got it with you guys..

              Mac brought home strawberries.. I want a strawberry shortcakes so bad..but my lack of energy stops me from making the shortcakes I love with Pillsbury.

              So I know you understand that. Just little things like that as you know that frustrates all of us. errrrrrgh Thanks babe.. we are all in the same pot , eh?

            • beauty for ashes

              Yes we are all in the same POT! ( see below gif)
              It’s not just the lack of energy though, it’s the FOG. And of course right now the acute PAIN!
              Can I just tell you I have finally got the paperwork for Medicaid/ medicare, just when my insurance doubled, but I can’t seem to understand , or synthesize any of the information when I read it. My mom doesn’t understand how much help I really need with this. But she is also super cranky with chemo, and kinda foggy herself. I just hope i’ll have a good day soon when I can sit down and slog through all the choices I have to make.
              Sending you ALL MY LOVE SUPER BABY!!!!!!!
              https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/31cc19e4b35bd35a2f9c144a023a4ec835297c5abe7b8ac7eadfce4e90f15a79.gif

            • Baby

              Hahhaha OMG beauty.. Yes! Exactly.

              The fog.. OMG.. I have a fun new thingy going on now.. I’m dizzy when I look down, or lay down..or bend down..

              Fun times. I am sorry for your pain. sigh.. Mine is in my wrist..like a throb.
              But the foggy head.

              I watched a movie the other day and still don’t have a clue what it was about. And I just stare at Mac when he asks me a question.. He’s like..
              ” Earth to Trudy” where are you?

              Oh Mama..and her chemo.. the tow of you together are quite a pair eh? shit.

              I couldn’t imagine doing paperwork without Mac. I just can’t.. I feel for you..

              My daughter and I have such a good relationship.. We are on the same plane. She’ll text and say.. ” Mom I want to talk but I’m too exhausted.”

              I write back.. ” Ditto..” and that’s about it…for both of us.. until we both feel better at the same time.. Which seems rare lately. We don’t put any pressure on each other about not contacting more.. Cause we know.

              Yeah I’m super baby like you are Super Beauty.. Whipped!

            • beauty for ashes

              I meant your pain. My pain is more general right now thank god. But I remember when the nerve pain I had went down from my neck to my hand. Your wrist, is like everything. your fingers can’t move without hurting it.
              mine traveled right in between the bones and I remember having to try to position the wrist on my pillow by my head and support every thing in between. Then I got pain killers and steroids.
              Sometimes I just ask God to send an angel to enfold its wings around my body and hold me, when I just can’t take it. I know you are welling up too my sister friend. Just surrender, just for a few minutes. You know sometimes that helps, sometimes it doesn’t. No promises. But it always passes. .. *sigh* Love You Auntie Baby <3 <3 <3

            • Baby

              Oh yes the pain.. I was laughing about the dog in the toilet..hahahhaa

              I do the exact same thing with my wrist .. I used to love sleeping on my tummy.. but forget that.. On back protected with the pillow.. sigh..

              I am always calling on my angels too.. sigh.. sometimes I swear they are on their smoke break. I will surrender .. Just for all of us suffering..
              f5

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaG9SDxwPBg

    • Ben Franklin

      Get well soon. I didn’t know that you were sick.

      • Baby

        Thanks Ben. It’s been a long time. When people ask.. ” How do you feel..Hope you are feeling better.”

        I don’t know what to say..so I say.. ” OK..” instead of saying I feel like shit and can’t get out of bed.
        I don’t want to be THAT person who only complains about her health..but it does consume me right now.

        I thought I would feel better by now…

        • SarahDB

          Kisses and hugs the Baby 😘😘🤗🤗

          • Baby

            Thanks Sarah.. sigh.. I will take all the hugs I can get..xo

    • What’sup

      I’m having a good thought for you, Darlin’

      • Baby

        Thanks Sup.. sweeeeeeeeeet..

    • MostSpecialAgent Joe McClaine

      I hope you get better soon, baby.
      Hang in there.

      • Baby

        thanks Lib. I am hanging in MOST of the time. Today I just hit a wall.

    • Ruby

      XO

      • Baby

        XO ..thanks Rube

    • stanrogers

      That truly sucks. You are and have been missed.

      • Baby

        It does suck. thanks Stan. I appreciate it.. xo

    • Bernie Headley

      You have been added to my prayer list. It has been pretty darn effective!

      • Baby

        Oh Bernie..thank you..that means a lot coming from you and all that you have been through. xox love baby

    • UhLasare

      I’m so sorry, Baby. I had a whole lot of health issues the last half of 2016 (ongoing) and I started taking Levaquin, which is in the same family as Cipro. It was after you’d posted about your Cipro woes, and I thought an awful lot about you. Within a week, I saw a different Dr. and she was like “Get off of that stuff right away! Two days after the other guy prescribed it for you, they came out with a whole bunch of new warnings about this drug, and others like it. It’s much more dangerous than we thought, and should only be used as an extreme last resort.” I’d only taken it for a week, and suffered no ill effects. It stinks that you still are! What happened with your wrist happens with peoples’ ankle tendons on Levaquin. I’ve told many people to avoid Levaquin, and also Cipro, based on your experience. Will pray for you (again) now. {{{HUGS}}}

      • Baby

        OMG Lasare.. I’m so sorry about your health issues.. sigh.. Yes Levaquin..
        errrrrrgh.. Thank God the other Dr. told you to get off it right away.. Smart Dr.

        I am so thrilled that you didn’t suffer any side effects. I agree.. It stinks that I am..xo..

        Oh thank you so much for spreading the word about fluoroquinolone toxicity. It’s like giving someone poison. I am glad that I put up the warning and my experience. Yes Pray.. cause I appreciate them so much. xo Love baby

      • Baby

        MereCatWatcher Baby • 5 hours ago
        Thank you for your reply. I know what it is to have an “energy management” disability for years. It helps me to expect the results of activity and do less than I think I can or want to. And plan on downtime. It’s like going through a buffet and only getting what I know I can eat or feeling ok about leaving the plate half full. I let people think I’m slow to get things done, but I don’t like it.

        I’m concerned about your tendons and ligaments. I hope you get some excellent care for them. I wear gelled bicycle gloves from body geometry which cushions the palms and saves some reinjury. This was on the advice of a hand therapist. It also helps keep my hands warm. I have eleven different can and bottle openers and do not hesitate to ask someone with superior muscle strength to open something.

        I also got my doctor to certify me for Nls (national library service) audiobooks because I can’t hold a book. This is the service for blind and physically handicapped people. I find listening to audiobooks good when I am hanging out in bed.

        Hugs.
        1 • Reply•Share ›

        Avatar
        Baby MereCatWatcher • in a few seconds
        Well we make a great team Cat.. I am feeling the same. Amazing how I wish I were bleeding or walking around with an arrow in my head.. sometimes.

        This invisible disease thing is really bugging me. My friend on the Island asked me 2 days ago if I would go on a cruise with her. She had the tickets for a Bahama Cruise for 3 days and could not understand why I would turn it down.

        She knows what I have been gone through and she just said..” You can sleep on the ship.. we can just walk around and you’ll be fine.. She attempted to make me feel guilty for NOT being with her.

        Thank God I am old enough not to be manipulated because I didn’t have the energy to walk out to the car let alone the Bahamas. I am not asking for sympathy..Just understanding. I’m sure she’s pissed.

        She has told me before..I’m tired too I just fight through it. I would have had a terrible time on the cruise. We all know our bodies. I just would have.

        beautyforashes ( beauty) also knows about energy depletion.. she has a condition that absolutely zaps her. The same as my daughter.. EDS/POTS ..( My daughter the nurse swears that I have it too..)

        I don’t care what I have.. I just feel like crap. .. and I link it to Cipro.

        Oh the gelled gloves sound great. I will look into that. It’s funny because I have been listening to audiobooks. Glad you are too.

        I felt great..I woke up cleaned house for an hr. and crashed..ha..went straight to bed. Good Lord. I always have 4 dogs sleeping with me. That is a blessing.

        Thank you.. you have lifted my spirits more than you know. It is wonderful to get validation. Sorry you have to be miserable though.. but Like Beauty, you and me..UhLasare and I’m sure others.

        It is the new normal.. ppppppfffffft. Thank God we have each other.. xox love baby
        • Edit• Reply•Share ›

    • MereCatWatcher

      Baby, I am so sorry about all this you are going through. I had a couple of ear surgeries which included antibiotic drops that were a fluroquinone. Since the last surgery in march I have had tendinitis in both hands. This has been going on for about 10 months now. It is very slowly getting better. I have already put these type of antibiotics on my do not prescribe list. Thanks for the information you shared. It helps me understand some of my other symptoms and gives me some ideas for healing approaches.

      I have always enjoyed your comments -the fun and the serious ones. I send you my best wishes, positive thoughts, and prayers. I have saved several of your paintings because I love them so much. The colors are wonderful.

      • Baby

        Cat.. I am so sorry,, Damn. That Freaking series of Medication should absolutely be banned.

        That tendinitis is something else. Mac looked at my wrist and said.. ” Jesus it looks like your ligaments detached. ”

        And you know yourself that it just a constant throbbing pain . Slowly getting better.. that is good. Any progress is good.

        I make progress and I am so excited and ” Live a Little ” by going out to lunch..and I’m back in bed when I get home. Any energy expended I pay for that’s for sure.

        Such wonderful compliments you gave me. I needed them at this time. You are just a sweetheart. I always enjoyed your comments also.

        Yes.. Best wishes, positive thoughts and prayers to BOTH OF US.. Lets speed this shit up.. dayam .. My patience is wearing thin. xoxo love baby

        • redfisch

          Baby, just hold on. It will get better. I know it takes too darn much time. In that respect, it’s like a diet. Hehe. Seriously, if thoughts and prayers from the Bunker have any efficacy (and they must, don’t you think), then you are on the speedway to recovery. Much love, redfisch

          • Baby

            Oh Red.. Thank you.. you are so sweet.. I love all my Bunker buddies.. and of course that includes my fish… xo love b.

        • MereCatWatcher

          Thank you for your reply. I know what it is to have an “energy management” disability for years. It helps me to expect the results of activity and do less than I think I can or want to. And plan on downtime. It’s like going through a buffet and only getting what I know I can eat or feeling ok about leaving the plate half full. I let people think I’m slow to get things done, but I don’t like it.

          I’m concerned about your tendons and ligaments. I hope you get some excellent care for them. I wear gelled bicycle gloves from body geometry which cushions the palms and saves some reinjury. This was on the advice of a hand therapist. It also helps keep my hands warm. I have eleven different can and bottle openers and do not hesitate to ask someone with superior muscle strength to open something.

          I also got my doctor to certify me for Nls (national library service) audiobooks because I can’t hold a book. This is the service for blind and physically handicapped people. I find listening to audiobooks good when I am hanging out in bed.

          Hugs.

          • Baby

            Well we make a great team Cat.. I am feeling the same. Amazing how I wish I were bleeding or walking around with an arrow in my head.. sometimes.

            This invisible disease thing is really bugging me. My friend on the Island asked me 2 days ago if I would go on a cruise with her. She had the tickets for a Bahama Cruise for 3 days and could not understand why I would turn it down.

            She knows what I have been gone through and she just said..” You can sleep on the ship.. we can just walk around and you’ll be fine.. She attempted to make me feel guilty for NOT being with her.

            Thank God I am old enough not to be manipulated because I didn’t have the energy to walk out to the car let alone the Bahamas. I am not asking for sympathy..Just understanding. I’m sure she’s pissed.

            She has told me before..I’m tired too I just fight through it. I would have had a terrible time on the cruise. We all know our bodies. I just would have.

            beautyforashes ( beauty) also knows about energy depletion.. she has a condition that absolutely zaps her. The same as my daughter.. EDS/POTS ..( My daughter the nurse swears that I have it too..)

            I don’t care what I have.. I just feel like crap. .. and I link it to Cipro.

            Oh the gelled gloves sound great. I will look into that. It’s funny because I have been listening to audiobooks. Glad you are too.

            I felt great..I woke up cleaned house for an hr. and crashed..ha..went straight to bed. Good Lord. I always have 4 dogs sleeping with me. That is a blessing.

            Thank you.. you have lifted my spirits more than you know. It is wonderful to get validation. Sorry you have to be miserable though.. but Like Beauty, you and me..and I’m sure others. ( also Uh Lasare )

            It is the new normal.. ppppppfffffft. Thank God we have each other.. xox love baby

    • Ann B Watson

      I Love You Baby. I wish all the pain and all the pain & worry from the use of what seems to be a bad drug, I wish I could make it all vanish. Sending you Hugs. 💖

      • Baby

        Oh Annie .. thank you honey. It is nothing compared to what you have gone through sweetheart. 💖

        One day I will feel good again and I will shout it from the Mountain top. Love you sweet woman.. love baby

        • Ann B Watson

          So much Love & Healing coming your way. Your light is so powerful and I can’t wait to hear your shout echo from the mountaintops. You & I have been through the wars what with body, mind, and our spirits Tested.💘

          • Baby

            You always know what to say Annie.. Tested we are.. but you are a Warrior. You have a fabulous Guardian Angel.

            Mine keeps leaving for smoke breaks..💘 tee hee.. xo love baby

            • Ann B Watson

              You know I Love your comments Baby. If chemo ever knocks on my door my Guardian Angel and I will be taking quite a few smoke breaks! No sweetheart, around all you Rascals here I am tongue tied with admiration and love for all of you. And at a loss for words. Love you more than Infinity & then love you more. 💘

            • Baby

              Well.. I know we all love you.. but ME?
              ………………………………………………….
              I thought I loved you the best .. in the West..
              But..In the East.. My love for you increased..
              and excited In the South that I finally found my mouth..

              to tell you that in the North my love
              was 47x enforced..
              ……………………………………………………
              How’s that for poetry..hahhahhahhahahaha..

            • Ann B Watson

              The best poetry and I love the compass theme. Keep well Baby. 💋

            • Baby

              Yes I’m quite creative..hahahhaa Hello Annie.. Today is a great day! Woo Hoo

            • Ann B Watson

              I danced around because I am so glad today is a great one for you. 🌈

            • Ann B Watson

              Disquis ate two replies for you. Disquis must be hungry! Love your words above.❤️

            • Baby

              Disq…sucks..haha smooches…❤️

  • iampissed

    Ok I got an up vote from Bernie, that is so cool. I hope I’m not talking out of class but when I posted
    earlier that blown for good would make a great audio book Bernie wrote back that it had not been
    made into one because Marc was a busy man. Then suggested that maybe he (Bernie) could maybe
    take on the job….could you imagine!

  • Mick Roberts

    Out of curiosity, on these hate sites that CoS puts out, where they coerce family members to say negative things about people who are speaking out, has anyone ever done one of those videos and then left the church and has spoken out about doing those videos?

    Wondering if any of them have talked about the pressure they were under to make them for their so-called “church” or if they’ve spoken to how this organization told them what to say or anything. Anyone that gave any insight into what the church does to get these sad videos.

  • Vaquera

    Baby, a song to bring a smile. Good friends, sitting around a well-stocked table, making music.

    Steve Earl, Richard Dobson, Rodney Crowell, Susanna & Guy Clark, Jim McGuire on the dobro.
    Just to have been in the room….

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sUML2yWVn8c

    • Baby

      Texas.. sweet.. thank you.. reminds me of Howdycon when we just wanted to stay up with each other..

    • iampissed

      Sometimes it’s amazing what a single microphone can capture.
      That one is for you Marc Headley.

  • SarahDB

    My partner is coming to stay with me from the hospital tomorrow so that’s wonderful, but his son and grandson are staying Saturday night as well! Eeek! Better clean up all my school stuff and make the guest room look pretty and make the bed and and and…

    • iampissed

      Nope have them do that.

    • jayla197145

      Sarah!! I’m so happy your partner is doing well after his surgery!! I’m the same way…Oh!!! People are coming over!!! Gotta extra clean up the place lol!! OXXOXO!! 🙂 (hugs to you darlin’)

    • Vaquera

      Dim the lights and light a fresh candle. Done.

      • Mymy88

        There you are. I saw something today I thought you would like because you are the one that likes Fosse, right? I hope I’m not mixing you up with someone else. I’m sorry if I am. This is from a recent SNL skit (it has a Fosse number in it). If you have already seen it then never mind lol.

        https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sb9ybImGwkU

    • iampissed

      Put them to work…I won’t have this. Your school stuff is the way you want it. Men can and should make a bed and wash the sheets if needed. They better be able to to cook ….no really. Nothing has to be pretty….just comfy and they can help to make that happen.

  • Good weekend. Добрых выходных.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atyvdC15HFA

  • Paul V. Tupointeau

    R.I.P. John Hurt :-((

  • RedShoeLady

    New to this thing thanks to Leah & Mike. I’ve been listening to the podcasts “Surviving Scientology” by Jeffrey Augustine mind blowing heartbreaking stories. We can never let this go. We must strive to help these people. They just wanted to help & found themselves in the belly of the beast. Can’t wait till that billboard goes up. Hang in there Mr. Bernie what a wonderful soul you have much love to you & your family. ❤

  • Observer

    Some days I feel like Bee Girl. I’m sure am glad I’ve got this hive on the fringes of the Internet.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3qVPNONdF58

    • stanrogers

      That vid always makes it better, doesn’t it?

      • iampissed

        With love back at ya.

      • Baby

        Dodo.. omg how cute.. You really have the same face as you did back then.. wow..

      • Observer

        What a great pic!

    • Jimmy3

      You know I’d like to keep my jeans fly tooodaaayyyyyyy

      • Jimmy3

        So stay with me and I’ll have em starched

    • Franklin Adams

      You’re gonna go get me on a 90’s Alternative kick with that. Plus I’m drinking. I might just bust out my bass and get the cops called on me again.

      • Jimmy3

        Is fair to say that wooooahhhh you feel it coming back again, like a rolling thunder chasing the wind?
        http://youtu.be/70_9Zg65g7E

        • Franklin Adams

          Back in the day, like around 1998 or 1999 when I was an IRC operator, we actually got Ed from Live to come on and talk to everybody on the server’s main channel. His ex-girlfriend was one of our regulars and they were still friends. It was a really cool experience, may have even been the first time that an AMA style thing happened and long before reddit.

          • Jimmy3

            Which network? I spent a lot of time on IRC

            • Franklin Adams

              DALnet, or maybe it was Efnet. I had ServerOp rights on one of the Eastern servers on both, you may have even seen me.

              FAlphaXII was my old handle. I was usually invisible watching the more rowdy channels or Fserv but every now and then I’d be talking.

            • Jimmy3

              If it was Fserv it must’ve been DALnet. DALnet was like the wild west of IRC!

            • Franklin Adams

              Yeah, I used to hand out 3 day K-Lines and referrals for Z-lines to the admins like speeding tickets at the Indy 500. It was crazy. Got to be too much after awhile as you can well imagine.

            • Jimmy3

              I remember people shopping pictures of “K” Line trains back in the day.
              I was K Lined maybe a time or two on a couple other networks 😉

          • iampissed

            I remember IRC.

        • daisy

          pretty song

          • Jimmy3

            You’re a pretty song!!!!

            • daisy

              Love you xoxoxo

          • Franklin Adams

            Very much so. Live has a bunch of really powerful and pretty sounding songs. Lakini’s Juice is my personal favorite.

        • Observer

          There was some good music in the early 90s.

        • Joy Lover (Ex-CS)

          Great ending of a “Strange Luck” episode w/ this Song… (Hint: the right guy gets electrocuted!)

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVe7EGk2ia4

          • Franklin Adams

            I thought I was the only person that remembered that show. It, Dresden Files and Brimstone are three of my weird favorites that were gone way too soon.

      • Franklin Adams

        And 90’s alternative led to proto-punk, specifically the Stooges, which will probably lead to Johnny Thunders and then actual punk rock. I hate being predictable sometimes.

    • daisy

      The hive is glad to have you.

  • Joy Lover (Ex-CS)

    Bill Maher has mentioned Scientology twice! Also mentioned “Aftermath” and trying to get Leah on his show!

    • Liberated

      I was gonna say the same thing…thanks.

    • Liberated

      I would love to see Tony as his first guest, he had Lawrence Wright and Alex Gibney.
      The first guest is often a journalist and/or writer…T O would be great.

      • Joy Lover (Ex-CS)

        YES!!!

    • Joy Lover (Ex-CS)

      This of course on “Real Time with Bill Maher”.

    • Sine qua non

      I’m still in withdrawal on Tuesdays now that the whole huge nine show “season” of “Aftermath” has ended. . 😬😬. Season 2! Season 2!

  • A True Prince

    Bill just mention that he wants Leah to be on,can’t wait to see the letter they’re going to send him.

    • Joy Lover (Ex-CS)

      Will be another footbullet! 🙂

    • Liberated

      I have a feeling they’re scared to death of B. Maher.

  • My utter respect to anyone who dares to question, report about and criticize any billionaire.

    • Franklin Adams

      Same here. Always question authority. Especially when the authority is derived from money alone.

  • Mac

    Question here again. Let’s say the FBI decided to raid the hole at Gold Base. Came in suddenly, did everything right, got the people out of the hole to a separate location and asked them if they were being held as prisoners, abused, would you like to contact someone on the outside… would they agree or just say everything is alright?

    • Franklin Adams

      They’d say everything was alright, Stockholm Syndrome.

      • daisy

        right

  • outraged

    How can the Cherch keep denying disconnection when Cruise has not been seen with Suri in years.

    • Liberated

      Good question.
      He would probably say he’s busy making movies.

      • outraged

        Too much time has passed. No excuses left anymore.

        • Intergalactic Walrus

          No reporter asks him about it either. Strange, cause he used to be seen with her all the time when he was with Katie. He carried her around like a prop, sad to think that is all she was to him. Ugh, I can’t stand the guy. I hope that awful looking Mummy movie of his bombs.

          • Frodis73

            Me too! I hope Leah’s show made an impact on his fan base. I want it to bomb so bad that it is just above BE. That would be sweet.

            • Intergalactic Walrus

              I keep waiting for someone to make a mash-up video with Leah spliced into the Mummy trailer. He says “I saw her, she is real”. It would be cool (and fitting) to have him running from Leah instead of the Mummy gal. Hehe
              https://youtu.be/IjHgzkQM2Sg?t=1m51s

          • Sine qua non

            I don’t think Tom Cruise really does interviews does he? I guess someone could shout out the question from behind a rope line at the SAG Awards or something, but typically the only questions asked at those things are real softballs like “who designed your tux”. . Anyway this is sad to say but honestly his daughter in my humble opinion is probably better off not seeing him, because…. Well, what can you say? It would be like spending time with a 55 year old man who believes in what Santa Claus? I don’t know I just can’t fathom the level of delusion he seems to embrace.

    • Even assuming that it is his “personal choice”, or even his “busy movie schedule” there is no excuse, and no excuse for the media not making it a big issue.
      Its sickening.
      Problem is that Suri is better off without exposure to this nutbag.

  • Rasha

    My heart has joined the Thousand, for my friend stopped running today.

    John Hurt. 1940 – as long as I remember

    • Intergalactic Walrus

      Mike Connors (Mannix) & Barbara Hale (Perry Mason) have died too 🙁

      • TheLurkingHorror

        Goodness, I just looked Mike Connors up on wikipedia about a week or two ago because I was trying to remember what name he went by early in his career (Touch Connors, I had seen it on an MST3K episode years ago). I was surprised but pleased to find he was still living.

  • stanrogers
    • Frodis73

      Oh, I am so sad that I can’t listen or watch this. Can you send DT over to me in person to make up for it?

      • stanrogers

        Wish I could. Odd, that – it’s usually just the Beeb that does stuff like that.

    • Ella Raitch

      Love me some David Tennant – and Adam Hill.

  • Jimmy3

    Hey if a certain someone here got a telepathic message from me, I think I directed it incorrectly, and I’d never do that to you or to yogurt. It was meant for someone else. I’m sorry.

    • Frodis73

      So that’s what that was?

      • Jimmy3

        You were the one I was trying to send it to! So it works!

      • Mymy88

        Hi Frodis. You said to me “???????” I’m sorry for the confusion. I was commenting on the Stephen King meme and the comment of the person who posted it. I was just agreeing with that comment. That’s why I just said “yup”.

    • Franklin Adams

      So that’s what the sudden yogurt craving’s about. And here I was thinking I was just plastered.

    • Newiga

      Thanks a lot Jimmy3! I have filled my upstairs neighbor’s bathtub with yogurt while sleep walking. :/

  • What’sup
    • 4chanpartyvan

      4 more years

      • What’sup

        I’m in Australia, mate. Trickle down sewage however.

    • Thanks for posting this.
      I didn’t see every thing he did, but he was my favorite English-speaking actor.
      It was “The Naked Civil Servant” that did it for me.

    • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

      ‘The Elephant Man’ is one of my 10 favorite movies of all time. That it’s in black&white adds to the mood and feeling of being in Ye Olde England. Amazing movie.

      • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

        John Hurt was also in ‘Alien’, which is in my top 3 favorite movies of all time.

  • Mockingbird

    Oh boy.

    Today in American Fascist news. Today it’s being reported Trump plans to have released lists of alleged crimes by immigrants.

    From the Intellectualist:

    #Breaking

    “…Christopher Hooton has pointed out a likeness between Trump’s latest policy development and an article from Nazi paper ‘The Criminal Jew,’ which published photos of Jewish people who had committed crimes including pickpocketing.

    Taken from the book Hitler’s Ethic: The Nazi Pursuit of Evolutionary Progress by professor Richard Weikart, the text explains that “In 1943, a Nazi directive to the German press declared, ‘Jews are criminal by disposition. The Jews are not a nation like other nations but bearers of hereditary criminality.'”

    Compare:

    “Now, get this as a technical fact, not a hopeful idea. Every time we have investigated the background of a critic of Scientology, we have found crimes for which that person or group could be imprisoned under existing law. We do not find critics of Scientology who do not have criminal pasts.”
    – L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Bulletin, 5 November 1967, “Critics of Scientology”

    “Show me any person who is critical of us and I’ll show you crimes and intended crimes that would stand a magistrate’s hair on end.”
    – L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Bulletin, 4 April 1965

    • 4chanpartyvan

      Godwins law

      • Mockingbird

        It’s a meme not applicable to actual real similarities to Nazis.

      • Mockingbird

        “If you cannot recognize the signs of Hitlerian Power, if you do not know how to counter their efforts, if you remain confused and uncertain as your opponent makes his moves, step by step with decisiveness and intention, and your inaction allows him to come closer to power, then you have already lost and they have won, for they know the rules of the game and you do not.”
        ― Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

        • 4chanpartyvan

          Not sure where you are going with that quote.

          • Mockingbird

            It means in depth study of Hitler, his speeches, the rise of the Nazis and history isn’t equalled by saying Godwin’s Law.

            It functions as a fallacy or thought stopping cliche.

            Some people are actually similar to Nazis and saying Godwin’s Law stops in depth analysis of them.

          • Mockingbird

            I don’t know if you are one of the alt right Hitler and Trump worshippers that deny but know the similarities in the propaganda of both or you are something else and honestly don’t know the similarities or if you haven’t bothered to read Hitler’s speeches and don’t see them.

            • 4chanpartyvan

              No not really a big fan of Hitler,nor are all Trump supporters racist.
              The quote as i understand it was about the rise to power and both Trump and LRH actually gained the top job so to speak and then miscavidge took it etc etc.
              Thats why i asked where you were going with it because that horse has already bolted

            • Mockingbird

              I think the not all Trump supporters are racists idea is a hopeless quagmire. If you mean do they have racial bias ? Enormous evidence in social psychology and neuroscience supports the idea that everyone has subconscious racial bias. So by that technical definition strictly speaking everyone qualifies.

              Many Trump supporters don’t meet the racist strawman definition of the guy with a swastika tattoo dragging a black man behind his pick up truck with a chain on his way to a Klan rally, cross burning and church bombing.

              It’s not really addressing actual racism to just say not racist.
              I didn’t say all Trump supporters are racists. But many virulent racists love their God Emperor Trump.

              The horse hasn’t bolted regarding Trump. Most people don’t do extensive study of Hitler and so can’t see fine details and similarities between Trump and Hitler and Hubbard was a strong admirer of Hitler that plagiarized many ideas from Hitler and repackaged them in Dianetics and Scientology too.

            • 4chanpartyvan

              I do agree on the LRH hitler similarities ubermench and homonovis,mankinds only hope us and them.
              I don’t understand why you keep dragging Trump into a scientology blog are you trying to get viewers for your blog?

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              From time to time the real world intrudes here in our cozy little fantasy realm of Sparkle Ponies, OTs with super-powahs, and adorable kittehs. Some people read the comments about events tangential to Scientology and move on, some answer in kind, and some get all huffy puffy. Ultimately, the dogs bark, but the caravan passes on.

              Oh, and discussing an applicable historic parallel that happens to coincide with Germany in the late 1930s is not an example of Godwin’s Law. Randomly accusing America’s intelligence community of acting like Nazis is. Get that straight.

            • 4chanpartyvan

              I get that Doug its just on and on with Trump,Clinton politics any excuse to drag it into a thread its getting old.
              Not everybody here has the same views and politics tends to muddy the waters and cause division,frustration and irritation.
              A while ago when there were troll/trolls here i decided to help one out and give him some advice,the best way to troll is to get inside and cause division subtly of coarse and watch things take off.
              This is why i ask why people keep dragging Trump into discussions,because at this stage it almost seems like an agenda.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              I like this community because it is not political. But it’s too big a gorilla in the room at the moment. Don’t like it? Move on to what you prefer to discuss. Or engage with something a little more thoughtful than a drive-by comment.

            • 4chanpartyvan

              I’m all for political discussion but here its
              1/get picture of trump
              2/colour him orange
              3/write oompa loompa underneath
              4/laughs abound
              This is what its devolved into.
              And then when scientology smears someone people scream how dare they, then go back to posting pics of Trump in gestapo uniform.
              I truly despair.

            • Robert Eckert

              “the best way to troll is to get inside and cause division” Is that what you’re trying to do? It’s not working.

            • Mr. Bird likes to analyse conmen and fraudsters in deep. And some of us read Mr. Bird.

            • Mockingbird

              Dude, I have been here for three years. The people here already know me. I I post here almost every day. If you read my blog it has over two hundred fifty posts and less than twenty are about Trump.

              You may not think anyone knows it but you aren’t the first person to come here. My motives are irrelevant. Discussions about them are the genetic fallacy.

            • ExCult.Jan

              Ha! Love how you continue to educate. I am quite sure you got that dude to look up genetic fallacy. You rock, Mockingbird!

            • Mockingbird

              Thanks. In these dark days I – like everyone – can use all the encouragement I can get.

            • ExCult.Jan

              These dark days make learning critical thinking skills more important than ever. When I got ‘out’, I realized that one of the biggest risk factors to becoming cult-bait was that I had never even heard the term ‘critical thinking’, and in fact was trained to not think critically (growing up in a religious faith-based family). I think it is no accident that the one block in LA and evangelicals follow junk-thinking politicians. Keep doing what you do, Mock.

            • Mockingbird

              Thanks so much. Folks that pursue critical thinking and encourage it are facing an uphill battle nowadays. Maybe straight up and vertical.

            • ExCult.Jan

              The response to Leah’s Aftermath and now the ACLU winning a stay against Donny’s executive refugee ban because of the thousands of critical thinkers looks straight up and vertical to me!

            • Mockingbird

              It’s certainly better than an entirely hopeless situation.

            • ExCult.Jan

              The glass may not be half full, or even half empty, but at least there is some moisture in it.

          • Mockingbird
        • Mockingbird
      • Mockingbird
  • Arthur Theme Song performed by Ziggy Marley, Jon Batiste, Stephen Colbert and Chance The Rapper
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bl34di2xY8

  • Sine qua non

    I feel so much better. I actually dragged the husband and me off the couch and out to a theater to see “The Master” with high hopes that it would give Scientology the thorough, high-profile, mainstream cinematic skewering it so richly deserves. But both of us left the theater scratching our heads, having found the film kind of strange and oddly unsatisfying. However we are not cinemaphiles (is that a word?) and assumed that our lack of sophistication merely prevented us from fully grasping and enjoying the movie.

    The Bunker’s assessment that indeed, “The Master” ended up being a somewhat ponderously artsy, and inaccessible film makes me feel better. That’s pretty much what DR and I thought at the time. Self-esteem enhanced! Thanks, Bunker. 😋

    Give me #season2 of “Aftermath” and I’ll take that over “The Master” any day. That said, I give credit to PTA for his courage in making the movie at all. It’s just a shame that he had to edit his original script so heavily. 😟

    • BunchOfFives

      We just watched it the other day and found it quite perplexing too, yes.