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Why Steve Fishman — of the notorious Fishman Papers — is today serving 21 years in prison

Steven_Fishman

[Steve Fishman in the mid-1990s]

 
The preeminent academic studying Scientology, Dr. Steve Kent at the University of Alberta, recently set us on an interesting pursuit: Trace, he asked us, the effects of TIME magazine’s epic 1991 cover story on Scientology, “The Thriving Cult of Greed and Power.”

For some time now, we’ve been thinking about that question, making phone calls, and digging up records. The project appealed to us for a number of reasons, one of which was that we’d just spent a couple of years investigating the Paulette Cooper story, which spanned from World War II to the present day, but involved research mostly focused on the period 1968 to 1985. We’ve also spent a lot of time thinking about Scientology’s more recent history, after the year 2000, as a result of our work at the Village Voice and here at the Bunker. But we have some gaps in that intervening period, 1985-2000, that we were eager to fill in.

We’re still reading and searching and interviewing with no end in sight, but we thought we might come up for air after getting our hands on a fascinating document we thought you might want to see. And also so we can do a little crowdsourcing to help us get some ideas about where to go next.

We’ll try to do some very quick recapping for those of you unfamiliar with the period. If you have read our book, The Unbreakable Miss Lovely, you know that the FBI raided Scientology in 1977, finding a mountain of records detailing how Scientology’s “Guardian’s Office” had spent years infiltrating government offices, stealing documents, attempting to destroy people it considered enemies, and engaging in other nefarious acts carried out by an organization that acted more like a Cold War spy agency than a church. Eleven top Scientology officials eventually went to prison, including Mary Sue Hubbard, wife of Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard.

Hubbard himself reacted by going into permanent hiding in 1980, and then he died in 1986. By then, a young executive by the name of David Miscavige had taken over, the Guardian’s Office had been replaced by the Office of Special Affairs, and later that year a young successful actor named Tom Cruise started his involvement and began to help with the church’s miserable public reputation. By 1990, we’ve been told by former Scientology executives, the church had rebounded from the death of Hubbard and was at its greatest extent, with about 100,000 active members around the world, and with its leader, Miscavige, determined to get Scientology tax-exempt status.

 
TimeCover

 
Then, on May 6, 1991, Richard Behar’s TIME magazine cover story hit Scientology like a ton of bricks. It wasn’t the only tough examination to hit Scientology at the time — a multi-part series by the Los Angeles Times the year before was another major blow to the organization — but with Behar’s story the church decided to draw a line in the sand. It sued TIME for $416 million, claiming that numerous statements in the article were libelous. Among them were claims by two people mentioned in the story, Steve Fishman and his psychiatrist, Uwe Geertz. Here’s the entire mention of them in the article…

Occasionally a Scientologist’s business antics land him in jail. Last August a former devotee named Steven Fishman began serving a five-year prison term in Florida. His crime: stealing blank stock-confirmation slips from his employer, a major brokerage house, to use as proof that he owned stock entitling him to join dozens of successful class-action lawsuits. Fishman made roughly $1 million this way from 1983 to 1988 and spent as much as 30 percent of the loot on Scientology books and tapes. Scientology denies any tie to the Fishman scam, a claim strongly disputed by both Fishman and his longtime psychiatrist, Uwe Geertz, a prominent Florida hypnotist. Both men claim that when arrested, Fishman was ordered by the church to kill Geertz and then do an “EOC,” or end of cycle, which is church jargon for suicide.

Not only was this passage among the 12 Scientology singled out when it sued TIME, but Scientology also filed a separate libel lawsuit against Fishman and Geertz. Geertz ended up being represented by Los Angeles attorney Graham Berry (which in itself is a fascinating tale, which we won’t tell now), but Fishman, who was released from prison in 1992, was representing himself. Scientology said that Fishman’s statement in TIME was untrue in part because Fishman was not the longtime Scientologist he made himself out to be, and he had not engaged in his stock fraud scheme on behalf of the church. Fishman felt that he needed to prove that he was a longtime member of the church, so he came up with the idea of posting as a court exhibit Scientology’s upper-level “OT” teachings. If he wasn’t a longtime Scientologist, he argued, how would he have access to Scientology’s most secret materials?

Was Fishman telling the truth? Well, if you’ve read his online book “Lonesome Squirrel” — and we did, recently — you may come away from that work thinking that as early as 1979 Fishman was a covert operative for the Guardian’s Office and later the Office of Special Affairs who was defrauding companies on orders from his church superiors so he could pay for his Scientology courses. Or, as we did, you come away thinking that “Lonesome Squirrel” may be the single greatest parody of Scientology ever written. Like on a genius level. (And yes, we mean that. It’s stunningly brilliant on multiple levels. It’s also shockingly misogynistic, so beware.)

Actual longtime Scientologists will tell you that the material in that book, as well as Fishman’s statements on his notorious set of videos (recorded by his attorney to prove to the court that Fishman was a lunatic) prove that Fishman was never a Scientologist, but a nutcase who had amassed a huge library of Scientology materials which he studied closely so he could talk as though he knew what he was talking about — at least to the uninitiated. And once you understand that and read “Lonesome Squirrel” as fiction, you start to see what a satire Fishman was doing on Scientology belief.

Fishman claimed that Scientology auditing helped him remember that in a past life he had stalked the Virgin Mary and, while spying on her, he’d masturbated into the pond where she was bathing and his sperm somehow found its way into her, inseminating her — making him, in fact, the father of Jesus Christ. By revealing that he had been “Malchoot the Antichrist,” Fishman claimed that in this lifetime he was asked by L. Ron Hubbard to help “deChristianize” the world for Scientology.

As we began reading “Lonesome Squirrel,” we realized that some of the people named in it have, 20 years later, come out of the church. So we reached out to them and they confirmed for us that nothing in the book associated with them actually happened. “Lonesome Squirrel” is an incredibly creative work of fiction that has enough actual names and locations and quotations from L. Ron Hubbard’s work that it has a veneer of authenticity. But it’s about as authentic as one of Fishman’s bizarre and offensive similes about women and their body parts. (If you’ve read it, you know what we’re talking about.)

Anyway, whether Fishman was telling the truth or not, the important point for posterity’s sake is that Scientology failed to notice that Fishman had filed the church’s most pricey secrets in an open court file. Months later, thanks to Arnie Lerma, Karin Spaink, and many others, those OT materials got out to the Internet and the wider world, and Scientology was unable to put the genie back in the bottle. The “Fishman Affidavit” or the “Fishman Papers” became synonymous with Scientology’s struggle against the Internet in the 1990s, and to this day Fishman’s court file has a legendary status for Scientology watchers.

But what happened to Fishman?

Scientology dropped its lawsuit against Fishman and Geertz after Fishman filed his affidavit and after Graham Berry served subpoenas on numerous Scientology celebrities at a Christmas event. The lawsuit against TIME, meanwhile, was dismissed.

But then Scientology sued Lerma and Spaink and others for disseminating the Fishman Papers online in 1995, and Fishman traveled to Europe to testify on Karin Spaink’s behalf. A Dutch news story at the time said that Fishman had been working at a nursing home, but then had lost that job after it became known that he was a convicted felon. You can also find posts from alt.religion.scientology in 1996 where Fishman is defending the authenticity of his stories in Lonesome Squirrel.

But after that, Fishman got into another scene.

According to the federal government, from 1998 to about 2005, Fishman was a key player in a classic fraud operation that suckered investors out of millions of dollars by convincing them that 150-year-old railroad bonds were worth billions.

The bonds, issued in the 1850s by the long-defunct Galveston, Houston and Henderson Railroad, were actually worthless, except as collector’s items. But the several men who made up the “Caribou Capital Corporation” gave astounding assurances to potential investors about what those old bonds could yield once their overseas agent somehow put the bonds in play in European securities markets: “It was represented that an investment of $100,000 to participate in the profits from one 1855 $100 face value ten percent GH&H historic bond would yield profits of $1,100,000 per week for forty weeks, for a total return in a year or less of $44,000,000.” The investors were even assured that they could get their entire investment back within 60 days if they changed their minds.

The scheme also made use of shill investors (“authenticators”) who made assurances about their own huge profits in the scheme — one investor claimed that a single $500 railroad bond could ultimately be worth $15 billion.

The conspirators further bolstered their story by representing that the Florida Supreme Court had secretly issued an opinion, being kept under seal in chambers, which established the validity of the bonds. They also assured prospects that the United States government had assumed the railroad’s obligation for the bonds following the Civil War, and that the obligation represented by the bonds was still a “live” debt backed by the Federal government.

When money didn’t start pouring in, the members of the conspiracy had to placate investors, telling them they could also invest in bonds issued by the Republic of China in 1913 that the current government would have to honor, and coming up with other ways to stall them as no profits at all actually materialized.

In a document that describes the scheme in significant detail, the roles that different people played is spelled out. One of them was the gladhanding salesman. Another played the part of the overseas agent who supposedly had access to European markets. But the government said the nucleus that held it all together was Steve Fishman.

Mr. Fishman drafted and furnished documents, consulted with investors both before and after investment, traveled to Europe with Mr. Thornburgh to meet with Henriette and supposed bank contacts, hosted at least one meeting of investors at his home, drafted and furnished lulling progress reports, provided bonds, picked up bonds from escrow, supplied the names of “authenticators,” and sold or attempted to sell both railroad and Chinese bonds.

Fishman raised several objections to his prosecution, claiming that once he learned the scheme was under investigation in 2002, he dropped out of it and even cooperated with the government. But an appeals court disagreed, saying Fishman was still participating for several more years, and was never promised immunity.

In October 2009 in a federal court in Tulsa, Oklahoma, Steve Fishman was sentenced to 21 years in prison on charges of wire fraud and money laundering. Now 65, he is being housed at the low-security men’s facility on Terminal Island in San Pedro, California. He’s scheduled to be released on October 28, 2028.

In 2011, an appeals court upheld Fishman’s conviction and sentence, and it’s that document which gave us such a detailed look at the fraud scheme. Once we obtained it, we thought you’d want to see it.

But we still have a long way to go on our project, and we are looking for some guidance from the experts in our commenting community. Having read Lonesome Squirrel, we have to wonder about Fishman’s assertion that he obtained OT 1 through 7 for his affidavit from Sea Org member Ellie Bolger, and original OT 8 from Richard Ofshe. (As for the authenticity of that OT 8 material, which the church long said was a hoax, we now believe that it was, in fact, authentic.)

Could there be another source for those OT levels? And do the specific levels Fishman put in his affidavit still hold up today, or were they approximations? We’d love to hear from some tech experts on the various versions of the secret teachings put on line and when. Before we move on to how Lerma and Spaink and others were affected by making these materials available to the rest of the world, we’d like to settle some of these questions. (And yes, we’ll be dropping a line to Fishman himself to see if he’s interested in helping us out.)

Here’s that appellate order…

 

Steve Fishman Appeal, 2011

 
Steve Fishman will forever have a significant place in the history of Scientology. But it’s a shame that he couldn’t use some of his creative math and writing skills for something more productive.

 
——————–

Jonny Jacobsen checks in on the Russia development

Naturally, we’ve been getting a lot of email with reports out of Russia that equipment seized in a January raid has the government accusing Scientology of spying on its customers. (Shocking, we know.) We asked our man in Paris, Jonny Jacobsen, for his thoughts, and he sent us this…

 
I had a brief exchange about this on Twitter the other day when someone tipped me off to the original Russian story. So far as I can tell (from the dodgy coverage in the Russia media) they are being accused of spying on their clients. It rather sounds as if they have been secretly recording auditing sessions — hardly a first.

Bunker regulars will recall that it was a similar situation last year, when Scientology’s St Petersburg offices were raided. There again, they were being accused of being engaged in just the kind of fraudulent activities we know they have carried out elsewhere. So far as I know, we are still waiting for that case to come to court.

And it is reasonable to ask whether the defendants will get a fair trial if either case comes to court. This is Russia, after all: three times condemned by the ECHR for its treatment of Scientology. And it has form when it comes to bending the rules to put “undesirables” behind bars.

— Jonny Jacobsen

 
——————–

Miss Lovely on parade

Miss Lovely pays a nighttime visit to the mission in Houston — perhaps the largest city in the western world with only a mission and not an org.

 
Houston

 
——————–

BOOK NOTES
3D-Unbreakable

We didn’t get a chance to include photos in our book, so we’ve posted them at a dedicated page. Reader Sookie put together a complete index and we’re hosting it here on the website. Copies of the paperback version of ‘The Unbreakable Miss Lovely’ are on sale at Amazon. The Kindle edition is also available, and shipping instantly.

Tony Ortega’s upcoming appearances (and check out the interactive map to our ongoing tour)…

 
August 24: Boston, Boston Skeptics in the Pub, Hong Kong restaurant (1238 Massachusetts Avenue, Cambridge) 7 pm (with Gregg Housh)

Sept 15: Barrett the Honors College, Arizona State University, ASU in Downtown Phoenix campus, Walter Cronkite Theater, 5:30 pm

Sept 23: Cleveland, Parma Heights Library, 7pm sponsored by Center for Inquiry – Northeast Ohio

Sept 24: Minneapolis

Sept 27: Portland

Sept 28: Seattle, Razzi’s Pizzeria, 7 pm, with Seattle Skeptics and Seattle Atheists

Sept 29: Vancouver, BC, Seven Dining Lounge, 7 pm

Oct 23: Sydney, Giant Dwarf Theatre (with Sen. Nick Xenophon)

Oct 25: Melbourne

Oct 28: Adelaide (with Sen. Nick Xenophon)

Oct 30: Perth

Past dates: Santa Barbara (5/16), Hollywood (5/17), Orange County (5/17), San Diego (5/20), San Francisco (5/22), New York (6/11), Chicago (6/20), Toronto (6/22), Clearwater (6/28), Washington DC (7/12), Hartford (7/14), Denver (7/17), Dallas (7/20), Houston (7/22), San Antonio (7/24), Austin (7/25), Paris (7/29), London (8/4)

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on August 19, 2015 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of LA attorney and former church member Vance Woodward

UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists

GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice

SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer
The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill
The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

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  • Susan_Qbird_Poche
    • SP Wogsy

      You too Q-bird. I had a dream like this once. Very scary.

      edited.

  • joan nieman

    Thank you Jonny Jacobsen for today’s report. I hope Russia follows through this investigation and lays a few charges. I am sitting on the edge of my chair.

  • April

    OT: Here’s the number two top story on Reddit.com right now… which, based on their site statistics, should be viewed by 1-2 million unique visitors today… (refresh)

    • Royce Harlow

      Is this for real?

  • Cursed Frogurt

    hello

    • Jimmy3

      Hi there. I like your name real nice.

      • Cursed Frogurt

        Thanks. I got 114 lines on Tetris yesterday. m/18/detroit. You?

        • Jimmy3

          Soon/Legal/Backseat of a Honda

          • LongtimeLurker

            Are you both sides of this?

            No offence meant.

            • Jimmy3

              No. I am hetero. Not that there’s anything wrong with not being hetero.

            • SP Wogsy

              lolol.

            • Cursed Frogurt

              I am not now nor have I ever been a homosexual. I am sorry if I gave the wrong impression from my friendly getting to know you intro. I’m sorry, I have not been in a chatroom since 1995. Do people not introduce themselves that way anymore?

            • Sherbet

              I’ve got it, Bunkeroos. It’s Heber. They just let him out.

            • Eileen

              Definitely!
              Let’s call it Heber!

            • SP Wogsy

              Bwahahahahahaha!

            • Scream Nevermore

              How did an 18 year-old manage to be in a chatroom in 1995? Just curious, you understand.

            • Robert Eckert

              The newer generation is very precocious.

            • Cursed Frogurt

              you don’t really want to think about the plausibility of time travel too much or it just ruins the fun

            • Scream Nevermore

              As long as we don’t get any space-time paradoxes, everything’s cool.

            • Sherbet

              I wondered, too. OK, this place is getting really weird. Trolls, fake trolls, socks abounding.

            • Jimmy3

              It’s not me.

            • Sherbet

              OK

            • LongtimeLurker

              Come on…he likes Rush.

            • SP Wogsy

              Kids these days…

          • Juicer77

            J3, you are the only one here who makes me do the Dissaproval Face while simultaneously giggling and shaking my head. Keep it up, I love it!

    • SP Wogsy

      Are you lost? Do you need directions somewhere?

      eta: hi

      • April

        He’s not only lost, he’s also in a time warp apparently.

        • SP Wogsy

          lol. omigoodness.

        • LongtimeLurker

          Rush giveaway – Jimmy talking to himself.

          • jazzlover

            Here’s a cheerful oldie but a goodie:

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEnmUpByXfk

            LOL

            • LongtimeLurker

              Jimmy says it’s not him.

              So I take it back.

            • jazzlover

              The song may still apply to whoever that be 😉

            • LongtimeLurker

              Absolutely.

          • Cursed Frogurt

            I am not Jimmy. I am Cursed Frogurt aka flyonthewall 2.0

            • SP Wogsy

              FLY!!!!!!!

            • Cursed Frogurt

              i went on a date supper powers yesterday. We’re in love now

            • SP Wogsy

              I heard! Did you have fun?

            • Cursed Frogurt

              yeah, it was fun seeing a bunkeroo in RL. Was weird having an extended RL conversation about scientology, never get to do that.

            • SP Wogsy

              You should have showed her your tattoo.

              edited.

            • jazzlover

              Is that code? 😉

            • SP Wogsy

              No not at all. He has a tattoo.

            • Cursed Frogurt

              neh, I don’t like to show off

            • jazzlover

              That really is what she said 😉

            • jazzlover

              You youngin’s and your innocence 🙂

            • jazzlover

              He said he’s in love, so “no”. LOL

            • Juicer77

              It better be a Bunker wedding! We already have caek!
              ETA: Miss Lovely is going to be super jealous after that steamy kiss you shared.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Sorry.

              So you were riffing on Jimmy posting Rush recently?

              Didn’t he? ahh screw it

            • Cursed Frogurt

              i didn’t know he mentioned Rush, haven’t read any comment history but we have been known to be psychically linked so….

            • LongtimeLurker

              That’s funny.

              Is this change permanent?

            • Cursed Frogurt

              no, just having some fun

            • jazzlover

              This would be a great tune for Jimmy to “riff” on:

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYjgWTctQR0

      • Cursed Frogurt

        I am at tonyortega.org and I am commenting. I am a commenter just like you. Do you like the new Rush album? Rush is awesome

        • SP Wogsy

          oh. well then welcome to the Bunker. : ) Uuuum no I don’t feel rushed. I feel fine, but thanks for asking. have a great day.

        • Snake Plissken

          Clockwork Angels is an awesome album but it’s not new, it’s three years old.

          • Cursed Frogurt

            I don’t know that one. I was talking about the new one, Test for Echo. That album is totally boss

            • Robert Eckert

              Rush’s latest album is here: http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/photos

            • Cursed Frogurt

              no

            • jazzlover

              That’s a “Greatest Hits”. Does anyone really buy those anymore 😉

  • LongtimeLurker

    OT – did we all hear the latest news about this;

    “Hackers Expose Millions on Cheating Site; Some in US Govt”

    No link, choose your own news source.

    • Life is short. Have an affair. Get hacked.

      • jazzlover

        Ashley? Is that you? 😉

        • Life is short. The doxing lasts forever!

      • Missionary Kid

        Snortle.

    • Snake Plissken

      There was no email verification to setup an account on that site, I wouldn’t be surprised if 99% of the accounts were spambots trying to cash in on the 1% of idiots who were stupid enough to actually sign up for that site.

      • Mockingbird

        That is good news ,

      • LongtimeLurker

        ARE YOU JOKING?

        How lazy/incompetent are these money hungry asshats?

      • jazzlover

        The latest rumor that I heard is that the membership contained relatively few women.

        • LongtimeLurker

          I’m shocked, SHOCKED I tell you,

          • Scream Nevermore

            What kind of organisation would deliberately falsify their membership numbers??? Shame on them!!!

        • Snake Plissken

          You’d have to go through the credit card information to see who actually signed up. the 32 million is highly inflated, I wouldn’t be surprised if the actually number of people who signed up was around 32 thousand, if that.

  • Robert Hammond

    OSA internet tactics revealed: A message from a former OSA internet troll (refresh)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAdDplIBxIM

    • Robert Hammond

      OSA Tactics:

      1. Distract from topics they don’t want you to talk about with nonsensical accusation and derails
      2. Denigrate the opposition (Underground Bunker, critics, etc.)
      3. Divide and conquer (use religion, politics and other divisive topics to pit one side agains the other)
      4. Degrade the comment section (personal attacks, tiresome repetition, etc.)

      • Sherbet

        I’d be surprised if our recent guest is OSA.

        • Robert Eckert

          Crickit$ of course is, but Q isn’t (maybe Norman, maybe 26, maybe somebody else, but unlikely to be OSA)

          • Sherbet

            Right. It’s Q and her socks that aren’t OSA. Just a very disturbed blast from the past.

            • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

              Who thrives on the attention.

            • Scream Nevermore

              Hopefully she’s had her fill and won’t be back for a while.

        • Robert Hammond

          You may be right. Some of the same cautions apply. It’s easy to get caught up in somebody else’s personal drama or mental problems.

      • Snake Plissken

        You forgot 5.

        5. Shoot self in foot

      • Mockingbird

        This should be posted daily.

  • Tony, if you visit Fishman in San Pedro, make sure you call me up. Ports ‘o’ Call is my favorite seafood spot. I’ll treat.

    • Science Doc

      Hopefully not the Crusty Crab. Some nice places up the hill Pedro. Try Whale and Ale for fish and chips and very authentic English ale and pub grub.

      • I don’t even know the name of the spot. It’s like a little market where you select the seafood you want and then take it across the way where they cook it and add veggies to it with a piece of garlic bread.

        • Science Doc

          I’ve not eaten at the Market but the fish look good in it. I hope the remodel of Ports of Call is going to happen. Intersting trivia: the big waterfront massacre in The Usual Suspects was clearly shot there.

          • Missionary Kid

            See my reminiscing about the area 50 years ago in my reply to Derek. I haven’t been in the area since 1968. This is the second renovation of the area.

        • chukicita

          Oh crap. Now I’m salivating in my cube.

    • Missionary Kid

      O.T. Keerist, that brings back memories. I worked summers in San Pedro in the middle 60s as an impressionable person in their early 20s. What is now Ports O’ Call Village was then close to San Pedro’s skid row on and around South Beacon Street, populated with a multitude of scummy dive bars, commercial buildings, and rooming houses, with an occasional greasy spoon. All of that was torn out in the later 1960s and replaced, if I’m not mistaken, with new buildings and the promenade and palm trees on the east side of Beacon Street, and new buildings all around.

      Those old buildings, which had been there sometimes since the turn of the last century, when the breakwater was built,and were all torn down in a fit of redevelopment in the 60s. It was a slum, a carryover from the opening of the harbor up through the busy time of WWII. You didn’t go there at night unless you were poor or looking for trouble. Dead bodies would show up in the neighborhood all too often.

      It was like a scene from the movie, On the Waterfront but on a smaller scale.

      It was a decidedly rough place. I never went over to the Ports O’ Call restaurant (which had just opened), because I worked mornings. I see that they’re starting another wave of redevelopment, 50 years later.

      Derek, sometime I’d like to have you show me around. I know that I won’t recognize much of the area.

      • Science Doc

        A lot of Pedro is really nice now, and it’s time to rebuild Ports of Call Village again to keep up the momentum. I’m not sure what impact USS Iowa will have or has had by this point. East coast experience was that old naval vessels just become a drain, but maybe the Midway is a success in San Diego, although that’s a special case with the bases. Ports of call is across the Vincent Thomas bridge from Terminal Island. Back in my more oceanic days I took boats out of Pedro or Terminal Island a number of times, and I can still smell the waterfront when I think about it.

        • Missionary Kid

          There used to be an airline that took off in the harbor for Catalina. They also flew out of Long Beach airport when it was far less busy.

          The story goes that when they were returning from Catalina, they’d contact Long Beach Tower on a regularly scheduled flight, “Long Beach Tower, Grumman Mallard N36DF, 5 miles southwest.” The tower would then give them landing instructions.

          Their call, over time would get shorter. (It’s not supposed to, but pilots get sloppy when they’re familiar with the tower). “Tower, Mallard, 5 out, southwest.” and the tower would clear them to land. It was a regular flight that took place every day.

          Finally, one day, at the appointed time, all the tower heard was, “Quack Quack.” The tower cleared them to land.

          • Science Doc

            I’ve seen some semi submerged objects in that harbor I wouldn’t want to hit with a PBY hull on takeoff or landing. That scenario almost killed Nimitz in Pearl Harbor at some point during the war. Avalon is a little better.

            Ed. Almost killed not also killed.

            • Missionary Kid

              IIRC, they only took off in the harbor occasionally. The harbor was also far less busy than today, and the ships were smaller. They probably trolled their takeoff area, looking for debris before they took off.

            • Science Doc

              I guess the Spruce Goose flew down a little south in Long Beach harbor. Once.

            • Missionary Kid

              I believe it was actually outside the breakwater. There’s not that much room, and, from the film, it looked like open ocean.

          • LongtimeLurker

            That’s freaking great.

            Also – I love and miss flying boats.

            • Missionary Kid

              It’s probably a hangar tale, but it’s a fun one. Smaller amphibians are still being made. The latest one that looks sexy, is made out of carbon fiber. At least, you don’t have to worry about corrosion. http://iconaircraft.com/

            • LongtimeLurker

              That is sexy looking.

              I long for the big old ones, with those beautiful lines and porthole windows.

              And the male passengers wearing hats.

              And no gddmn flip-flops.

            • Missionary Kid

              Jimmy Buffet has retired his Grumman Albatross, but he flew all over South America with it. It’s big enough that he had two motorbikes, surfboards, and other toys with. In one country, he landed on a river, and the military came out and detained him. He bought them off with T shirts and being nice. Once they understood he wasn’t a threat, they treated him royally.

              Just the fuel cost of that plane is incredible. http://www.buffettworld.com/aviation/albatross/

              I thought he was a dilettante, but he isn’t. He went out and took a special course of training for ditching when he first got his seaplane rating. It saved his life (and his dog’s too) when he hit a submerged log in Long Island Sound with his first seaplane.

            • LongtimeLurker

              That’s great!

            • LongtimeLurker

              Just noticed – $189,000 USD for that A5 Icon seems really cheap me.

              I know very little about current plane costs.

            • Missionary Kid

              It is in the light sport category, which is comparable to the ultralight category in Europe. I don’t know what the classifications are in Oz. Here are the specifications for that category. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-sport_aircraft

              You cannot engage in night or instrument flight in it, and the speed, payload, and range aren’t very high. It’s a fun toy. Since it’s brand new, it will be interesting to see if they are able to make a profit.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Ahhh, that makes sense.

              I bookmarked it for later, but only skimmed, didn’t realise you couldn’t instrument or night fly.

              We have ultralight too, I think. For some reason I thought it was in a higher category than that.

              But as I said, I know very little about modern civil aviation.

              But if you wanna talk about NTSB air crash investigation, WW2 tanks or Lego, I’m your guy.

            • Missionary Kid

              It’s a well thought out, apparently safe, airplane, but can’t be used for anything really but fun or training. It does have foldable wings, so it can be stored at home, if you’ve got a trailer, but the range isn’t terribly long, ifyou’re going to carry anything.

            • LongtimeLurker

              I know there’s a long history of foldable wings, even in extreme stress military planes, but man the idea of that freaks me out.

            • Missionary Kid

              Believe me, that the engineering and stress testing that goes into a design is extensive. If a plane weighs 600kg, and the wing is designed for 4Gs,each wing has to be able to carry 600 X 4 /2 =1200kg plus a safety factor of 50% without permanent deformation, so that’s 1800kg,and they test it by turning it upside down while it’s being held in a jig, and piling sand or lead shot bags on it until it deforms permanently. Usually, the test loading far exceeds that number. Yet, each wing will often weigh 50kg.

              You have to do something extremely stupid to have the wings fail.If you saw how wings are constructed and tested, you wouldn’t worry about it. I’d be far more concerned about the pilot or the weather.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Oh yeah, I know it makes no sense. : P

              It’s just one of those things.

              I’m fine as a passenger, I have enough knowledge to realise that it’s a pretty safe way to travel.

              That’s interesting stuff – thanks for that.

      • Would love to go sometime. I like being near the ocean over there, and i love eating at that fish market. Though I do it sparingly because I’m always tempted to overspend.

  • Mark

    People really should take more time to read the small print, even in today’s frantic-scroll-through-the-end-user-licensing-agreement-and-tick-the-damn-box world. How else do people like Fishy Fishman, Google and Microsoft get away with what they do? (Refresh after an exhausting struggle to turn off all the default privacy-invading settings of Windows 10, particularly bloody nosy-parker “Cortana”):

    • Sherbet

      Looks legit.

      • Mark

        Look closer…

        • Sherbet

          No reason. I trust you.

          • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

            Uh-oh 😛

    • Observer

      She’s annoying in Halo too.

      • LongtimeLurker

        truedat

      • Mark

        Spyware masquerading as a PA wherever she is.

      • Scream Nevermore

        Can’t be any worse than Sera in DA: Inquisition.

        • Observer

          And definitely not worse than Navi in Ocarina of Time

  • Sherbet

    OK, Bunkeroos, listen up: The Bunker is getting very confusing, so I’ve come up with these rules:

    Rule #1: From now on, we all get one (1) avatar and one (1) name. No switching around!
    Rule #2: There are no rules.

    • Robert Hammond

      Rule #3: See rule #2

      • Scream Nevermore

        Rule #4 – we don’t talk about the Rules.

        • Science Doc

          Rule #5: Brad Pitt is not real.

          • Scream Nevermore

            [Cries].

          • Draco

            Noooooo!

          • Sunny

    • Techie

      All this time I thought it was “Rule #1 Four legs good, two legs bad. Rule #2 All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others” You mean I had it wrong all along? But then why all the kitty and doggy pictures? I has confused. But I know I don’t have to wear any stinkin’ badges anymore, that’s all good. Apologies to those who were born this century and have no idea what I am talking about.

      • Sherbet

        Socks don’t have legs. They have feet. Also, if animals start posting, it behooves you to ignore them. Have I cleared anything up? No? I don’t think so, either.

      • Juicer77

        “Isn’t anybody going to help that poor man?!?” 😉

      • LongtimeLurker

        We have 14 year olds reading?

    • Cedilla
    • Fear not, there shall be no Artootoo . . . too.

  • Jill

    I have taken a communications course, a life repair course and have done the purification rundown and all have helped me tremendously. I’ve asked them about the OT stuff I’ve been reading about, but they knew nothing about it and seemed really puzzled. Like anything there is the pros and cons: so who is right?

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      Hi Jill, it’s nice to meet you. The problem here is that those who have done the OTs aren’t permitted to discuss them – so those who haven’t done them know nothing about them.

      Either way, you are not going to get any answers from Scientologists. Ironically enough, you will get more answers from the internet and critics of Scientology, but you will only be deemed ready for the OT levels when you’ve been indoctrinated not to browse the internet. It’s a chicken and egg situation, put in place to control individual Scientologists.

    • Sherbet

      lrh was a pro at the con. End of story.

    • Snake Plissken

      You can read the OT materials for yourself

      https://file.wikileaks.org/file/scientology-ot-levels.pdf

    • Cursed Frogurt

      They were just puzzled and left it at that?

      • LongtimeLurker

        You don’t think…

        …they were lying?

        Like maybe they wanted lulz?

        Or to waste our time? Or get really bigoted statements out of us?

        I haz scared.

        http://cf.ltkcdn.net/paranormal/images/std/156166-425×282-phone.jpg

        • Cursed Frogurt

          well lately I try to make an effort to be diplomatic when I call someone a dirty liar

          • LongtimeLurker

            I’m so dumb today.

            I ruined that for you.

            • Cursed Frogurt

              not at all, I like the scary pic

            • LongtimeLurker

              ; )

    • 3feetback-of-COS

      Well, if you’ve taken a communications course, a life repair course and have done the purification rundown, then you are expected to be unreasonable and not so open-minded…..

      Unless you are an OSA puppet trying to sneak in here and establish some credibility. My apologies if I am wrong, but it suddenly smells a little bit “clammy” in here.

    • nottrue

    • Robert Hammond

      Hi Jill,

      Good news is that all of the information about Scientology, including all of the upper levels, Hubbard’s personal history (including 3 wives), David Miscavige’s family members (who have all left Scientology), etc. are all available for FREE on the internet – unless you are a Scientologist and not able to look for yourself.

      Here’s a quick illustrated history if you’re really interested. (refresh) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_s3gIthXHJU

    • Robert Hammond

      If you really want to save time and money, here’s all you need to know in 166 seconds: You can fact check everything from multiple sources including public records later. Look at all sides. Then decide for yourself. (refresh) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0PMEowX0Jk

    • TheLurkingHorror

      “I’ve asked them about the OT stuff I’ve been reading about, but they
      knew nothing about it and seemed really puzzled. Like anything there is
      the pros and cons: so who is right?”

      Maybe I’m a bit sleep deprived at the moment, but I don’t think I understand the question. Who is right about what? I mean, it’s no secret that ot levels exist, right? Are they denying that they have any knowledge that ot levels exist?

      • Sherbet

        I think the post was just a fishing expedition, L. Horror.

        • TheLurkingHorror

          Yeah, I guess so, but I still don’t understand the question. 🙂

    • Juicer77

      Welcome, Jill. I second what Andrea (I-Betty) said below, plus please read “Combating Cult Mind Control” by Steve Hassan before you take ANY more courses, read any more Scientology materials or talk to any Scientologists. It’s not that long of a read. Please consider doing this, it will only help you make better decisions for yourself in the long run.

  • 3feetback-of-COS

    So, as I check stocks and keep an eye on MarketWatch.com, I notice this lil gem:

    “Donald Trump’s biggest fan is a British Scientologist who lives in a castle”

    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/donald-trumps-biggest-fan-is-a-british-scientologist-who-lives-in-a-castle-2015-08-19?dist=countdown

    Another wacko whale living in his make believe world.

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      Brilliant 🙂 Tony posted a link to it earlier.

    • daisy

      Krusty also supports him..Yep that seems about right. Hopefully she will be more vocal about it. That should scare voters to the other side

    • LongtimeLurker
      • Sherbet

        “Was invited to the ‘Light Box’ which is a Scientology presentation. Yikes.”

        • LongtimeLurker

          Even before knowing what I do, that kind of bait and switch would have risked someone getting slapped.

          • Sherbet

            What the heck is it?

            • LongtimeLurker

              It’s when you draw back your arm, with your palm and fingers unclenched and then *really fast* hit the person across the face.

              ahem

              It’s the promise of an amazing art experience.

              They have a live-in clam ‘artist’ ‘friend’.

              Then it turns out to be a couple of corridors with some lights shining on paintings and they try to convince you to buy one AND/OR try some Scientology services.

              You can’t make this stuff up.

      • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

        “My advice to anybody thinking of visiting would be stay on the outside and don’t ruin the image by entering.”

        😛

        • LongtimeLurker

          What a bunch of jerks.

      • TheMirrorThetan

        Doesn’t everybody like staying at dirty filthy hotels with ugly paintings on the wall and poor food.
        And what’s with that bathroom plonked in the corner of the room.
        It does look just like a portaloo like the reviews say.

        • LongtimeLurker

          Instead of knocking down walls and running pipes and outlets and tiling and all that expensive stuff…

          He just had little cubicles built in some of the rooms, hid the pipes under the carpet and called them bathrooms.

          If I saw that, I’d go back to reception and ask for my money back.

          Scammy clam is scammy.

          • TheMirrorThetan

            Damn right I would too. If I wanted a portaloo in my damn bedroom I would go camping on a construction site.

            • LongtimeLurker

              I’m sure people have. Even the reserved English must have, right?

              On a supposed luxury holiday, you’re paying for it to be as good as or better than your normal living arrangments, surely?

              I
              once made a hotel in Sydney shut down refurbishment work on our floor.
              We’d paid for an 11am late checkout and they started recarpetting at
              8:30 am (IIRC).

              I went down and ‘convinced’ them to get all the tradesmen off that floor until midday and told them we’d be checking out at 3pm instead, and that I expected our late checkout payment returned.

              Idiots.

              Some part of me wants to visit this stupid “Camelot”, and have the experience, maybe film it.

    • Draco

      “Aside from placing big bets on Trump, Mappin is hoping to connect with the candidate in other ways. He’s planning on launching a television channel from his castle and producing a program interviewing celebrities and other prominent figures. Trump is on the must-have list. “I have extended an outreach,” Mappin says.”

      They are just after his money, I think. I imagine he and Kirstie would just LOVE to be his FSM!

  • Snake Plissken
    • daisy

      I will restart my subscription

      • LongtimeLurker

        Yay!

      • jazzlover

        Please provide proper documentation or your Bunker rights will be revoked. Thank you.

        • LongtimeLurker

          Ethics Black Ops here JL

          Please let Daisy know we’ve upped our requirements.

          We now need the docs AND video footage of her watching the entire “documentary”.

          Yours in drugging children,
          LL

          Hail Xenu. Hail Pharma. Hail Tony.

          • jazzlover

            LMAO

            I was going to threaten having to listen to jazz on an endless loop for eternity, but even I know that might be too much 🙂

            • LongtimeLurker

              Well it depends I guess, like if it’s a 30 second loop, that’d suck.

              But if it didn’t repeat for 4 or 5 years…

            • jazzlover

              If I were to only add the “crankwankers” of the genre onto the loop, that might be more painful than you think 🙂

            • daisy

              I am open to listening to Jazz or Dodo s music after 8pm when I am stone cold drunk

            • jazzlover

              Ha! Open mind, my dear, open mind 🙂

              Btw, you went from third person to first person in one fell swoop. Should we be worried? 😉

              Also, remember, Lurker and I are gonna need evidence of the viewing event Skyped to us as it happens.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Footage MUST be live.

              Only Bunker HQ can falsify evidence.

              Yours in Eternal Entheta,
              LL
              Bunker Ethics

              Hail Xenu. Hail Pharma. Hail Tony.

          • daisy

            Daisy has seen it 2ce over the internet. The beauty of having it televised as all my face friends have bigger houses and bigger Tv s So they can have the viewing parties and I wont have to clean my house, mow my lawn and share my drinks.

            • LongtimeLurker

              ***NOTICE***Cottage Industry of Hate HQ***NOTICE***

              Codename “Daisy” is hereby;

              Cleared of any Bunker Ethics crimes
              Promoted to Operating Psyche III (with Kidnapping & Dealing Drugs to Small Children Honors)
              To have her weekly Big Pharma check increased by 47%

              The rest of you freedom-loving, religion-tolerating, slackers need to watch “The Documentary” 3 more times.

              Yours Volcanically,
              LL
              Bunker Ethics Lvl XXIV

              Hail Xenu. Hail Pharma. Hail Tony.

          • Juicer77

            *snort* XD

  • Yep, “Lonesome Squirrel” is depressing and terrible, even by ex horror-story standards. I’m kind of relieved to find out it was a work of fiction, because if it was all true, then Fishman would be the saddest and most pathetic person I could imagine. But the bit about the “LRH=God” part of the original OT8 is true, huh?

  • Robert Hammond

    Scientology Explained in 166 Seconds (refresh)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0PMEowX0Jk

    • jazzlover

      Not sure I have time. Is there a condensed version? 😉

    • Donna Cline Sargent

      hope you come back — you are missed !

    • skiesareblue

      Yes, as Donna says, you are missed!

  • touretzky

    My favorite scene from Lonesome Squirrel was the one where Fishman claims to have left his body and traveled (in spirit) up his underage prostitute girlfriend’s vagina. They were physically having sex at the time, so he found himself banging his spiritual self in the head with his own penis. Fishman was — and remains — a first class nutjob, but also way ahead of his time.

    • Sunny

      There are plenty of Scientologists who think and talk like this too.

      • Robert Hammond

        Starting with L Ron Hubbard.

    • Snake Plissken

      Sounds like something straight out of Dianetics

    • TexasBroad

      That somewhat accurately describes what it felt like slogging through today’s comments. I’m with Sherb above (below??).

      • Draco

        IKR? It’s almost like Fishman’s insanity infected the scene today. I find him highly disturbing. I could never listen to all the videos, but after reading today’s article, I’m determined to get through them. Started reading Lonesome Squirrel too. But I can only take him in small chunks. Had enough for tonight.

        • TexasBroad

          I had to take them both in bits as well. It was a long time ago though and today I kept thinking of going back over it, but just can’t. The videos particularly feel like something its wrong or intrusive to watch. So uncomfortable.

          • lynn

            same here…I think the fishman videos were about the only ones I just couldn’t bear to watch. like you said, uncomfortable.

    • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

      So, dude really was f***ed in the head, then?

    • Tony Ortega

      And if you think of it, that’s just a one-upmanship on Hubbard’s own stories from Book One. In Dianetics, Hubbard repeatedly refers to the fetus getting knocked out by dad’s penis during rough sex between mom and dad.

      • LongtimeLurker

        Jesus, the insights into his twisted psyche.

    • Kay

      I was going to read that book….but on the basis of this excerpt maybe not. Eww.

  • nottrue
  • Robert Hammond

    What Scientologists Believe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOdF_3RIXJ4

  • Sibs

    Geez, what percentage of the comments today are trolls/details? Seems like every time I check in for the last few weeks there’s more.

    • Robert Hammond

      They like to help expose the ineptitude of Scientologists and raise the Google ranking of this site by adding more visitors and comments.

    • LongtimeLurker

      I wonder how much is to do with yesterday’ social media blitz?

      Some clams must have seen it and may have decided on their own to confront and shatter.

      I myself have OVER 4 Twitter followers!

    • ze moo

      Wacking Duggan and Cardone may have triggered a ‘counter punch’ from Duggan’s deep pockets. They totally don’t get the internet.

    • Sherbet

      I’m finding myself getting more and more ticked off, because Tony scrambles to put up a daily post, with research and links, and then it’s pretty much ignored, because moronic trolls come in and tip over the tables. The conversation veers toward the troll, no matter how nonsensical the discussion. I know people like to bait the troll, and some Bunkerites are pretty funny and skilled at it, and far be it from me to tell anyone what they should and shouldn’t say in the Bunker. But I think of Tony. He’s not running a chat room. He actually counts on us to react to his post. And maybe someday he’ll think it’s a waste of his time to try to keep the Bunker going as a unique place of interesting discussion and good humor.

      I don’t know who I’m mad at. I’m just mad.

      • Sid

        You make a good point. I was thinking that today. I never used to even respond to trolls but have done so a bit lately. I think the focus on Tony’s articles is where I’ll try to stay. Thanks for pointing this out.

        • Sherbet

          I sound like such a prude or prune or something. I’m sorry. I engage with trolls from time to time myself, and then I kick myself that I’m playing their game.

          • SP Wogsy

            Don’t worry bout it Sherb. I got caught up two days ago and suffered troll hangover for like hours. Uuuuugh.

            • Sherbet

              I know, right? It’s just what they want.

          • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

            I agree with you Sherb. I too give them attention sometimes but I’m working on it. They are not worthy of our time, so I am doing my best to ignore. Won’t always work, but I’m trying. 🙂

            The personal attacks on some people by the troll did upset me though. 🙁

          • daisy

            It is not prudish it a good reminder I think we have all heard Torys story that if the troll seems reasonable we foolishly think maybe if we show love, we will turn them. Sometime when they are laughable, we all try to making each other laugh.( its how for I for one handle stress )
            This last troll is disgusting. He makes , people get angry and they express that. I for one am done, this last one shows the depravity, some of the post sickened. I will not give them the satisfaction. I am sorry if added to the problem. I hope I can make the occasional joke after .

            • Sherbet

              No, daisy, there’s no need for ANYONE to apologize. We all do it, and we’re all pretty funny at it. But Q is disturbed and doesn’t warrant any more attention than she (I believe it’s a she) has already got from the Bunker in the years she’s been coming around in various guises.

      • Observer

        This review of Scientologist-owned Camelot Castle Hotel in England should cheer you up. And if you wonder just how awful the “art” is, Google “Ted Stourton Art”. Scientologists–so aesthetic!

        • Sherbet

          The title alone cheered me up. Thanks, Observer.

          • Observer

            I can’t stop snickering at the description of being cornered in the basement by the “artist”!

            • Sherbet

              I think the Smiling Assassins would be a good name for a band (if it isn’t already).

            • Sherbet

              I know what a light box is, but how is it a scientology-related (per somebody else’s review)?

            • Observer

              Apparently in the context of the Camelot Castle Hotel, the “lightbox show” consists of being herded into the basement and pressured to buy Ted’s “artwork”. One review said that the hotel has a “wishes and dreams” letter that kids can fill out and send to Merlin, and involves the child giving their home address. This couple let their little girl do it, and she started getting Scientology DVDs in the mail.

            • Sherbet

              Oh! Thank you. I have wishes and dreams…that scientology will go away.

            • Observer

              Just don’t tell Merlin!

            • Sherbet

              I’m having an MST3K flashback: Merlin’s Shop of Wonders (?). Evil windup monkey, etc.

        • Observer

          Omg, John Mappin’s response to one of the negative reviews–so Scientological!

          • Sherbet

            😀 He left out the word “bigotted.”

            • Scream Nevermore

              I was waiting for ‘on the edge of the leisure industry’ or something along those lines.

            • Kay

              That is exactly what I was thinking. I guess “intolerance” was the really a “bigot lite” word.

        • Kay

          Wow

        • Foreign (East European) staff who are allegedly required to take ‘courses’ which improve their communication skills…

      • Vaquera

        Thank you. ^^^

      • Kay

        I’m mad at myself for ever responding to them.

      • LongtimeLurker

        If it helps, I was one of the most eager responders until a couple of days ago, and then I had an epiphany.

        So no more troll talking from me, not even to read other Bunkereres smart/reasoned/funny comebacks.

        If a thread is too high in troll percentage, I’ve been collapsing it.

        It’s been lberating.

      • Mad at me?

      • Susan_Qbird_Poche

        This day’s trolling crushed me Sherbet. I felt this impotent anger also. But more importantly, I realized once & for all how I am not well equipped to ‘be a part of this blog’. Half of the time I just don’t understand. The other half, I cannot contribute in any meaningful way. Can’t help with the research. Not snarky or brilliant in any way. Never have any inspired insight that adds to the conversation.
        I feel that I may be one of the worst offenders of going off topic & chatting. Think I’m done.
        Sure has been an experience however. Thanks for making this post Sherbet.

        • I agree with all of this Qbird — except the part where you say you are “not well equipped to ‘be a part of this blog'”. I consider you part of the heart of this blog.

          Anyway. Maybe it is time to move on from the bunker. It is very demoralizing for me to be treated so poorly in front of everyone and not have anything done about it. It causes old trolls to sense weakness on old threads and attack me there.

          Most of what I do is try to make people laugh and add a little where I can. Dunno why that isn’t considered valuable (anymore)? Maybe with so many new contributors, there are plenty of new comedians to take my place.

          • Susan_Qbird_Poche

            know what you mean Nat. aching 4 our Bugs & Capt. There are others too who no longer post, for whatever reason, and I miss them terribly. Howdy said people come & go in RL as well on this blog. Lurking is not so bad – it really is what I mostly do anyway… Just need to stay mindful is all. At least make a sincere effort to be on topic. (crap, now I sound like Vinay ;-} ha. ) There are many big hearts that beat here Nat… truly. I’s a small potato. You a big one. Try to stay calm. I’ll try to do the same. Part of my issue is that I’ve been working real long hours 6 days/week for about 3 months now & I’m kinda worn out period. Cest la vie. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f24bfde9afff9f2ebadb77fc3b3c3cedf7c15b044d05104ed4942b69eac5704d.png Cheery-bye Kiddo.

            • *hugs*

            • Susan_Qbird_Poche

              backatcha Nat! no matter what.

    • Draco

      Today has been a doozie.

  • Sibs

    Btw, Tony, two thumbs up for today’s topic. I’m interested and excited to see where the research takes you.

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      Isn’t it intriguing?

      • Observer

        It seems that Fishman would have been a much more competent successor than Miscavige.

        • There would be OT level into the 20s by now and tons of money and new members

        • Obs, what happened yesterday? Who is endoftheq and why do they get a “pass”? Do you know?

          • Observer

            I’m going to message you on FB under my real name. Give me a couple of minutes.

  • Observer

    So Kirstie was all outraged by this … I went to see if she was FB friends with Jan Eastgate, but lo and behold, Jan’s page is gone.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/kirstiealley/status/634067002026389504

    • jazzlover

      I don’t tweet. Can someone get in there and set her stupifyingly moronic followers straight?

      • Observer

        I’m not on Twitter either

      • Lucille Austero

        I would, but she blocked me 🙁

        • jazzlover

          Consider that a sign of approval for inclusion in the human race 🙂

        • madame duran

          Same here. Feeling proud of that achievement, actually. 😀

          As far as setting her moronic followers straight…like attracts like so I’m afraid that isn’t possible.

          • Snuzey

            I got blocked too…! Gave her a load of entheta to audit away first though 🙂

        • Kay

          Yeah she blocked me too.

        • LongtimeLurker

          WHY WON’T SHE BLOCK ME!?!?!

    • ze moo

      Ellen DeGeneres, Jim Carey (ok, he is something of a goofball) and Ben Stiller follow Krustie?

      • Todd Tomorrow

        Carey, is a nutter he is against vaccines for children.

    • Sid

      This is Jan’s alter ego and her business. Her name is Jan Meyer (Eastgate).

      buildingcleaningservices.net

    • madame duran

      Wait….are you saying our beloved space manatee is a hypocrite??? NO! STOP THIS AT ONCE!!!!!

      • romanesco

        Space manatee…*chuckle*

  • Robert Hammond

    Harlan Ellison and Robin Williams discuss L Ron Hubbard (refresh)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9AGVARpqdk

    • Mockingbird

      I love this one.

    • jazzlover

      Part of what’s funny about that is that it may be the first (and only time) Williams sounded like the mellower participant in a two way conversation 🙂

      • Robert Hammond

        That is funny. Harlan Ellison was pretty much dominating the conversation. I don’t know how the rest of the interview went. I met Ellison at a screenwriter’s conference many years ago in LA. He’s a great storyteller. I was raised in the early era of science fiction that he talks about. Fortunately, I never got into any of Hubbard’s sci fi. I was more a fan of Ray Bradbury, Robert Heinlein, and Alfred Bester in those days.

        • jazzlover

          Did he dabble in some of the intoxicants of the day? 😉 He sounded like he might have been a little “wound up”. If I’m remembering correctly, he’s the writer who conceived The Terminator?

          • Robert Hammond

            I don’t know much about his personal life. I do know that he had quite a temper and liked to get into arguments with people. He’s known for writing some Star Trek episodes, but never heard of any connection to The Terminator,

            • jazzlover

              He sued after The Terminator came out saying Cameron ripped off one of his short stories. The studio settled and said that if Cameron didn’t agree he’d be the one on the hook for whatever Ellison would have won in court. Cameron was pissed.

            • LongtimeLurker

              It wasn’t entirely the right decision if you ask me (which btw no one did).

              A) the concepts were presented differently

              B) Ellison’s team misrepresented his work as being the only/first examples of the tropes they accused Cameron of stealing.

              On the other hand Cameron isn’t the most ‘original’ creator in the world.

            • jazzlover

              If Cameron isn’t original, can we even call him a “creator”?

            • LongtimeLurker

              Melange-er?

            • jazzlover

              Reminds me of an old “Odd Couple” episode where Oscar tried to get Felix to eat something he called “goop melange”. LOL

            • LongtimeLurker

              I shouldn’t have been surprised, but I still can’t believe they remade that show.

            • jazzlover

              That was one of my favorites. Counting the new one with Matt Perry, it’s already been remade twice — there was a black version some time ago too.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Okay, I’m pretty into pop-culture, how did I not know about the black version?

              Going to research it now.

            • jazzlover

              Ron Glass from Barney Miller and Demond Wilson from Sanford and Son.

            • Missionary Kid

              Who was Ellison’s attorney?

            • jazzlover

              For the life of me, I can’t find it. It sounds like you either already know the answer, or at least have your suspicions. Was it a Scientology attorney?

            • Missionary Kid

              No. He’s the furthest thing from a $cientologist. The person that I think it may be Henry (last name witheld), a law school friend of a close friend of mine. He’s a Hollywood attorney who’s semi-retired, but his name was mentioned in a thank-you shout out at the Oscars just two years ago, so he still must be active. Ellison actually dedicated a book to him.

              I heard him tell a story about Harlan, where, after he won a case and a big settlement for Harlan over a story of Harlan’s about a robot cop being turned into a short lived TV sitcom about a robot cop, Harlan not only went on late night television and talked about it, but took out a billboard on Hollywood Boulevard, basically saying, “these guys ripped me off.” Henry said, “The judge was not amused.”

            • jazzlover

              That’s funny. In looking for the attorney’s name, I did notice that Ellison is one litigious guy. He sued over a science fiction movie called “In Time” in 2011.

            • Missionary Kid

              I believe that both Henry and Harlan made money together. Some of it, at least, was because of the stupidity of Hollywood Executives that are convinced they can steal ideas at will, and some, probably because Harlan is overprotective about his work.

            • jazzlover

              Artistic theft has been going on for a very long time. The fact is, because of the way our brains are wired, it’s almost unavoidable.

            • Missionary Kid

              If someone thinks I’m smart, it’s because I’m standing on the shoulders of giants.

            • jazzlover

              I wasn’t inferring that you were incorrect, just adding a lit bit of explanation as to why I believe it happens so often. It would take a true psychotic to do it by design and believe that he could get away with it. I believe it happens subconsciously. We’re all informed by what we experience, whether we know it or not. How else could “My Sweet Lord” be explained? 😉

            • Missionary Kid

              No insult taken. I was just making a generalized statement. I’ve learned from, and been inspired by many people who are better than I, and I appreciate it.

            • Missionary Kid

              Re: Terminator. Read his Wikipedia entry.

            • Scream Nevermore

              City on the Edge of Forever. Great ep.

          • Keeping in mind that during the New Jersey “bar bet” convention, he was around 14.

            • jazzlover

              So, is he just full of it or were NJ authorities just sleeping on the job? 😉

            • He is a highly skilled story teller. However, I doubt anyone served him alcohol (when any authorities were looking).

            • Missionary Kid

              As I remember the story, Ellison was no shrinking violet at that age. He could be pretty brilliant but abrasive. The story goes that one of the giants of the genre turned to another and said, “Should we kill him now, before he turns into a real monster?”

          • LongtimeLurker

            Well…..he’s the writer who claims that 2 of his stories were stolen by James Cameron.

            Don’t get me started.

        • Science Doc

          Ellison was my favorite around age 16.

        • Missionary Kid

          By the time I started reading science fiction, in about 1955, I don’t remember reading any of LRH’s stories in anthologies, and I remember no mention of him in Astounding by Campbell, and I read the magazine from cover to cover. I remember reading an Ellison story, “‘Repent, Harlequin!’ Said the Ticktockman” later, as well as his Dangerous Visions compilation. I used to know his attorney, who Ellison helped make wealthy with his copyright lawsuits.

          Hubbard couldn’t hold a candle to any of those other writers. He was a hack.

    • Tony Ortega

      Robert, this is getting close to Cat-Daddy spamming at this point. Instead of just heaving up anything remotely related to Scientology, how about looking around to see where it fits in the timeline of things, particularly in regards to the Bunker?

      http://tonyortega.org/2013/02/16/scientology-mythbusting-with-jon-atack-making-a-million/

      • Mockingbird

        One of my favorites . Back in 2013 you only got 365 comments ! Your stats are never that low now. Ethics protection for the whole Bunker !

  • Tsk! Someone from a St Petersburg (Russia) IP address went straight for the Per Wickstrom category on my site and tried to edit it.

    Good luck with that!

    Initiating SYN Stealth Scan
    Scanning 1 hosts [10000 ports/host]
    Discovered open port 80/tcp on 46.161.41.199
    Discovered open port 22/tcp on 46.161.41.199

    • Science Doc

      Hacker for hire?

      • Hmm. Or someone’s dumb bot that doesn’t check robots.txt or identify itself. If it keeps poking around, I’ll toss it.

      • What was really sad was the one a couple nights ago from a Spanish IP who was trying WordPress logins for hours. I don’t even have WordPress installed. (And he was running open ports with exploitable software…)

        • Science Doc

          I just reminded myself about bots and was a bit surprised that the robots.txt convention is still pretty much 1994. Maybe create 100,000 randomly generated and largely or totally fictious email addresses in an explicitley disallowed directory for the benefit of spam harvesting bots?

        • Todd Tomorrow

          Are you on a PC or an Apple, just curious?

          • Umm. The LAN is three PCs, three Linux PIs, and an Android tablet, so advantage Linux I guess.

  • Sookie Sookie

    So, for Nat, a quick recap of the commenting activity today (because I didn’t have time earlier):

    http://i.imgur.com/ZKXn6fR.png?1

  • beauty for ashes

    I’m not fully caffeinated yet and my brain insists on casting Buster from Arrested Development as Mr. Fishman here. F5 for entertaining meme. oops forgot. try again.

    • beauty for ashes

      Derp! F5

  • Pierrot

    *** RED X +–+ Reminder +–+ RED X *** Wednesday, 19 August 2015.

    Good day Bunkerettes and Bunkeroos,

    Nashville leads SLC with San Antonio & Toronto trailing
    Check Salt Lake City, it is begging for a few complaints about spamming.

    Flag the lies, whack a few bait & switch ads : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-Kvg78kCcvo5gL7UfPcmhmbsagTNtdj0y2LAiHVFrCU/pubhtml

    F5… Take ‘em down by Baby flickred by AegerPrimo: https://www.flickr.com/photos/132611082@N08/17172459673/in/album-72157652596135800/

  • Todd Tomorrow

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9iB5UnLIV0
    Can you recall a time when you were happy?
    Found this on a link of one Karen’s videos?

    • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

      Luring me in with swimming lion cubs…Curses!

      That AAWA article on the hypnotic techniques in scientology and JW was really interesting–thanks.

      Yesterday (or maybe the day before–can’t remember now) someone in the Bunker shared this article about recently published research on the dissociative effects of staring in to someone else’s eyes: http://digest.bps.org.uk/2015/08/weird-things-start-to-happen-when-you.html. I just got around to reading it today. It’s yet more evidence of what’s really happening during scientology TRs, and how they are such a powerful part of the indoctrination process. Thank you to whomever shared that article–apologies that I didn’t pay better attention to who it was.

    • madame duran

      Kitty got BRAIN FREEZE!!! Lion cub gif is full of awwww.

    • LongtimeLurker

      DAT LION!!! GIVE IT ME!!!

      • PantalonesCalienteYDelicioso

        The lion will eat you! They only look all cute and adorable, it’s their devious plan of attack! First they get you to do the “awwwwwwwwwwwwwws”, which makes you want to get all up close and personal, which they allow just long enough to “CHOMP”, and there goes an arm, possibly your head!

        • LongtimeLurker

          I dunno, I might risk a limb for some pre-chomp snuggles.

          • PantalonesCalienteYDelicioso

            And if it decides to chomp off your head rather than going for a limb? You’ll be the headless longtime lurker!

            • LongtimeLurker

              Lurker can regrow head if need be.

  • Clearly, Fishman did not discriminated in his uber trolling.
    The parts of Lonesome Squirrel I’ve read were very funny.
    Hoping he will do something good with his life while in prison and when out.

    • Jimmy3

      He’ll be alright. I’m sure he’s been imprisoned in a past life before. He was probably Promotheus’ rock-mate, or some shit like that.

      • Mother of Zeus.

      • Todd Tomorrow

        Ha Ha!

      • Missionary Kid

        He was convicted before.

        • Jimmy3

          It’s a past-life joke.

          • Missionary Kid

            I didn’t read your post close enough. Duh.

        • Science Doc

          He’s clearly a man of convictions.

          • Missionary Kid

            Good one.
            The second time around cost him twenty years

      • Kay

        J3 you kill me.

    • Science Doc

      If he wants to do anything outside of prison he needs to take his meds and not smoke or eat really bad food or breath the air on Terminal Island.

  • Ka-Pow!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pex1Vnb5Iz0
    amazing, i’ve been waiting for a fishman update for years, tony, great stuff. thanks!

  • ze moo

    Another over 1k comment day. Enjoy it I am.

    What happens when you stare into someones eyes for 10 minutes?? You hallucinate.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3203198/Look-eyes-Staring-s-pupils-10-minutes-make-HALLUCINATE-monsters.html

  • nottrue

    Bad Jolly…

    • Intergalactic Walrus

      “Rep. David Jolly (R-Fla.) will wed Laura Donahoe in Indian Rocks, Florida, his home district, on July 3. Jolly, 42, whose divorce from his wife of 15 years, Carrie Jolly,
      was finalized last year, first met the much-younger Donahoe, now 29, in
      2010, when both worked at lobbying firm Van Scoyoc Associates; Jolly
      was Donahoe’s boss. At the time, Donahoe was listed in the coveted No. 2
      spot on The Hill’s annual “50 Most Beautiful People” list,
      noting in the accompanying interview that she was a “beach lover” who
      had a running competition with the then-married Jolly over who could
      catch the most foul balls at the Washington Nationals games. Jolly had
      caught 10, she just two. Donahoe and Jolly, whose spokesperson did not
      respond to a request for comment, were engaged earlier this spring.” http://www.politico.com/story/2015/06/david-jolly-laura-donahoe-wedding-118615.html

    • madame duran

      Oh, that annual fashion show…I believe someone had posted a video clip of the event from a year or two ago? I remember it because the clam organizers had to audacity to play Duran Duran’s “Girls on Film” in the background for one segment. Needless to say, I WAS NOT PLEASED.

  • Kay

    Well I read that appeals document all the way through…now my head hurts. I wish I had a better background in law. From what I could pick up however, I am not surprised that these appeals were denied. Fishman obviously has talent as a con man…too bad he didn’t use his abilities elsewhere. I don’t quite understand why he assumed that he was going to get total immunity when he had no deal in place prior to confessing. Maybe I missed something. I now want to read his “Lonesome Squirrel” book.

    • Science Doc

      Sociopaths think they can charm everyone. Appealate panels see it all the time I’m sure. They cut him a lot of slack procedurally for being pro se, but all of his arguments were meaningless. I’m not an attorney but I’ve seen enough appeals in consulting work and on boards of non profits to know that the trial court is the primary finder of facts.

      • Kay

        I have also noticed that appeals are not usually successful, although I’m glad that that option is available to people who really have a legitimate cause to appeal.

        • Science Doc

          Appeals keep trial judges on their toes. There would probably be a lot of mischief without the possibility of Appealate reciew.

          • Kay

            I agree….I know they worry about being reversed on appeal when they are presiding over a trial. I think that’s a good check and balance to have in place.

      • beauty for ashes

        I’m having a hard time with the word sociopath for him, definitely a personality disorder. Going to look at the DSM for a while.

        • Kay

          It’s hard even with live patients you are familiar with to figure out exactly what is going on when you are dealing with personality disorders. They have to be observed firsthand over time. Also lot of people with personality disorders have a tendency to have more than one disorder, so it can be confusing because the disorders overlap. However, antisocial “traits” (documented behaviors) can be obvious, i.e. criminal behavior that victimizes others. Narcissistic traits can also be obvious, as they irritate most everyone. Traits however are not synonymous with the complete disorder. That is why to legally diagnose someone for the legal system as being a sociopath requires a psychiatrist and/or psychologist’s assessment. However, I totally understand why people point to different leaders in Scientology, past and present, as being sociopaths because they have exhibited traits that are certainly commensurate with that disorder, and have caused a lot of suffering as a result of their behaviors. It is totally normal for all of us to describe documented traits that are disturbing to us, and try to categorize them because we all want to get a grip on why some humans are just so destructive and seemingly without a conscience, particularly if you are a victim of that person or persons. (One example are the multitudes of books written on Hitler, no one is ever going to let that issue die because it is just so disturbing and outside of most human experience so mankind is still struggling to understand it) The truth is probably most likely that well-known people who wreak destruction on others on a large scale may actually be showing the traits of more than one personality disorder or psychiatric disorder. (sociopathy, narcissism, malignant narcissism, paranoid-type personality, borderline personality, intermittent explosive disorder, drug addiction, obsessive compulsive disorder, are examples of just some of the possible concurrent disorders that may be present)
          That’s not to say that any of this excuses their behaviors…..the vast majority of people with personality disorders in particular do not visit misery on whole populations of people at once and over several years at a time. The scary thing is that really talented sociopaths can fool absolutely everyone, their families, friends, co-workers, the legal system and their religious leaders for their entire lives. (sometimes they ARE the pastor, priest, rabbi, bishop or other religious leaders, as positions of authority appeal to a lot of different disorders along the personality disorder spectrum) Sorry this was so long, I will go sit in the corner now and be quiet.

          • LongtimeLurker

            That…

            Was great…

            I’m addicted to Hitler and Jack the Ripper non-fiction.

            As you said, you can’t diagnose from afar (even more so when there’s no actual subject, as in JtR) but I still just want to understand.

            I asked my therapist if I might be a sociopath or have a narcissistic disorder.

            “If you’re asking, probably not” – I’m sure he said that just to be able to say the classic line.

            • Kay

              Yes, it is absolutely the yearning to understand that makes us want to label people with known disorders. That is absolutely normal. What your therapist said was most likely sincere…one trait that all personality disorders have in common is a profound lack of insight into their own behavior. Therefore, if a patient actually has enough insight to worry if they may have a particularly personality disorder, that means that they probably don’t have it at all !
              P.S. Yup Jack the Ripper is an interesting fellow as is Hitler. I do a lot of reading on WW II because the personalities are so fascinating..Hitler, Churchill, Patton, Roosevelt, Montgomery, etc.

            • LongtimeLurker

              You’re absolutely right, so many big personalities.

              Hey! They should make a film about World War Tw…

              …oh right…

          • beauty for ashes

            NO it was fascinating and very relevant! Also you summarized what I had suspicions of, but you obviously have an easier time of it. Don’t be quiet if you have something smart to say Kay! 🙂 Sorry this reply is a little late!

  • beauty for ashes

    Started reading Lonesome Squirrel. Fishman reminds me a lot of my old roommate’s slaves. She was a pro-dom putting herself through school and otherwise a very nice girl. But as open minded as I am I really could not play along with these men that wanted to be humiliated. Instead I treated them very respectfully, because frankly a lot of the time they came over to clean our house! And instead of feeling grossed out, it amused me not to give them what they wanted. And this happened only a handful of times that they came to the house.
    I’m not sure I want to read any more of Mr. Fishman’s book. You have to have the ability to sort of play along with his mindset, which disturbs me and confuses me. Or just maybe isn’t my cup of tea.

    • Kay

      After reading some excerpts from it down-thread in the past 20 minutes, I think I have changed my mind about reading Lonesome Squirrel. I think maybe I just don’t understand the humor and context enough to appreciate it. (I’m not criticizing it..I think I probably just don’t get it)

    • ReallyMGM

      Someone mentioned Fishman’s videos last week so I took a look. Whoa! I watched about 2 minutes of him and turned it off. I tried reading his mess, thinking he might be a bit more coherent or something, but no, so I gave up. Image seeing him as the headline today.

      • beauty for ashes

        I watched the whole three hours in one sitting. It’s a lot different from his book. And that was very educational for me at the time.

        • ReallyMGM

          He seems the type who is spending every waking moment in prison 1)planning next scam, and/or 2) revising his explanation for previous scam.

    • MaxSpaceman

      that may be just cuz Oat Tea #s 1-10 aren’t your cup.

  • eloise

    Stranger satire on the NYT Amazon article: http://www.thestranger.com/columns/open-letters/2015/08/19/22720740/an-open-letter-to-jeff-bezosfrom-david-miscavige-chairman-of-the-board-of-religious-technology-center-and-supreme-leader-earth-division-of

    ETA: the headline since it’s not displaying:
    An Open Letter to Jeff Bezos
    From David Miscavige, Chairman of the Board of Religious Technology Center and Supreme Leader (Earth Division) of the Church of Scientology, Inc.

  • GARRY PAGE

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9iB5UnLIV0

    ‘Going Clear’ has been freely available on Youtube for a week!

    • madame duran

      It’s been longer than that. I just hope that DVD/downloading sales of “Going Clear” won’t be affected by posting this.

      • jazzlover

        Just noticed that the version on YouTube is a half hour longer than that which aired on HBO. What’s up with that?

        • Doc M

          commercials, am watching it again, now

          • jazzlover

            Hey Doc! It’s not a HBO upload. Who’s adding commercials? There weren’t even any when it aired on HBO.

            • Doc M

              you tube

            • George Layton

              Lets hope it’s scientology commercials, that would be hilarious.

            • Doc M

              coming up on first one in 2 minutes

            • Todd Tomorrow

              Didn’t have any in the version I put up earlier today that got pulled!

            • Doc M

              my mistake, but the time line showed breaks which usually mean interruptions, but apparently not in this case.

            • Todd Tomorrow

              I’m saying I think that having my HD copy posted here was removed. Don’t think Tony wants it here.

        • Doc M

          Sorry my mistake, no commercials, though it shows the stops on the time line, doc just continued.

          • jazzlover

            I need to know, dammit 🙂 Is it an extra 30 minutes not aired, maybe?

        • madame duran

          Saw that. Didn’t watch video to find out what the extra 30 minutes is about (uploader’s commentary?). I noticed there’s a full version with Czech subtitles available though.

          • jazzlover

            Thanks. I think we already have verification it’s not commercials. Wondering if someone got their hands on outtakes?

            • Sebastian L. Jackson

              Some YouTube users who illicitly post movies onto the site sometimes slow them down slightly, I guess to throw off the copyright police and admins. It’s not extra material. There is a version of Se7en on YouTube right now that’s similarly slowed down.

            • LongtimeLurker

              I did not know that.

              Thank you.

            • jazzlover

              Thanks. They check for these things using programs that use matching technology? Has this turned into police work or something? 🙂

            • Sebastian L. Jackson

              Considering the movie industry has been keen to have Congress pass laws like SOPA in the past, I guess YouTube needs to approach it like police work and keep them happy.

    • Madison KinSmed

      I’m going out on a limb here – watching bootlegged copies of Going Clear is just like scanning TUML and emailing it to friends. It’s a violation of copyright and it’s taking money out of the pockets of people who did the work. Ok. Everyone can throw things at me now (p.s. CoS documents are probably ok to freely distributed bc inured…)

      • LongtimeLurker

        I normally pay for all my media.

        When I had my screening for friends, I used an “unpaid for” copy.

        I plan on purchasing an additional DVD when it’s released.

        fwiw

  • 9001

    I had to lie down after reading this. I’ve always thought Steve Fishman was a public scilon. Still think he may have been as according to Andre Tabayoyon’s affidavit he saw him in LA with Debbie Truax and OSA, and Miss Cabbage also mentioned Fishman making extensive purchases of scilon material at one of their briefings. http://www.xenu.net/archive/ronthenut/tabayoyo.htm

    • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

      Whoa. Just…whoa. And I’m not even talking about the Fishman parts. Is Gold Base still armed like that?

      I feel sick.

      • 9001

        I don’t know if it’s still like that. Maybe the FBI should go in and check.
        And don’t feel sick. Get better soon.

        • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

          Yes! FBI, go check!

      • TonyOrtega

        Oh please. No one else who worked there literally for decades had made a similar claim.

        • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

          Yeah, I’d never heard that before. But there are many holes in my knowledge so I don’t always know what to believe.

          • Juicer77

            That’s why we read here AND cross-check elsewhere. 🙂

          • anoni81b4u

            Even if they had 100 ak-47s I don’t think that would be a good reason for an FBI probe. Remember david Koresh .. he was a nut job .. the whole reason for the raid was illegal weapons. There were not any illegal weapons found from what I have found. The reasons for that raid were bullshit and no one in our government went to jail.Having guns is not a bad thing, (my opinion) I saw a video on youtube , I’m thinking it was either Rinder or Rathbun, but they said only a few firearms at the scientology place.. for target shooting and coyotes and crap.

            • Missionary Kid

              Koresh had 50 caliber machine guns, unregistered.

            • anoni81b4u

              They were semi-automatic. No registration needed. With enough cash you could buy one tomorrow at a gun show with no I.D. Totally legal.
              The reason for the raid was some parts he bought that could have been used to make his semi automatic guns, fully automatic, again. Totally legal to posses such parts as long as you do not make a weapon fully automatic.
              The FBI also had no good information that he had made any of his weapons fully automatic.

            • Missionary Kid

              It was obvious from the video that the 50 caliber was fully automatic. I know that it is ex post facto.

            • anoni81b4u

              the video of the atf agent getting shot next to the window ? He was shot by the ATF agent who just went in the window and had a flash greanade go off in front of him, also thrown by an atf agent. That video ?

            • Missionary Kid

              The one where the ratatat tat of the 50 can be heard.

            • anoni81b4u

              never saw that one, got a link?

            • Missionary Kid

              Nope. Maybe my memory is faulty, but I sure do remember (or misremember) the fifty.

            • anoni81b4u

              I think you might be mistaken. I have done ALOT of research on it and although they had an ass load of guns, none were ever found to be fully automatic. and they recovered 100% of the dividian cults firearms after the disaster was over. Read up on it a little 🙂

            • Missionary Kid

              It was a slow firing machine gun. Maybe he was pulling the trigger that rapidly.

            • anoni81b4u

              Quite possible!

        • Mockingbird

          An unsupported claim involving Scientology ? Perish the thought

          • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

            Indeed. I assumed a sworn affidavit would qualify as a reputable source, but I understand that with scientology, all is not what it seems. It’s not like we haven’t heard about razor wire and armed guards/snipers before. Ebner even said something about CC guards being armed now on a recent interview on The Lip (which freaked me out). But whatevs, it’s comforting to know that folks who know better than I don’t consider these claims valid,

            • Mockingbird

              I don’t personally know. But I would use my best judgment and beware my limitations.

    • TonyOrtega

      There’s no question that Fishman amassed one of the largest private collections of Hubbard material, and also that he took at least some courses after 1986 with the Ft Lauderdale mission and/or the Miami org. But as many people who knew Fishman or reviewed his videos or his book have told me, he had a way of taking a small kernel of truth and spinning out a major fantasy from it.

      As for Andre’s declaration, it’s very consistent with what many other people observed at Gold Base, but it seems a bit overegged in places. No, Miscavige was not born into Scientology, and the description of John Colleto’s death is clearly written by someone who didn’t witness what happened. Andre says at one point that Fishman was a public with a large collection of materials, but also says he was an OSA operative. Which is it? I get the impression of someone with limited exposure to Fishman maximizing things for a court declaration (which can overstate things without cross-examination).

      • 9001

        I agree it seems very overegged in places.
        The way I understood his description of Fishman is that he was public but asked to help out on a mission.

      • “he had a way of taking a small kernel of truth and spinning out a major fantasy from it”
        I see what you did there, Tony.

      • Snake Plissken

        “He had a way of taking a small kernel of truth and spinning out a major fantasy from it.”

        L. Ron Hubbard had a way of doing that to, in fact he turned it into Scientology

      • Juicer77

        (f5) for how this article makes my brain feel:

      • LongtimeLurker

        Even I know Miscavige wasn’t born into it.

      • Mockingbird

        Tory and Mike McClaughry would know better than me but I have heard of OSA using people who were not staff or Sea Org members.

      • anoni81b4u

        Sounds like he out crazied scientology. Until today, I did not think it was possible.
        He also committed fraud, and as I have a burning disdain for people who steal, I hope he gets to OT25 in prison.

        • ReallyMGM

          I absolutely love “out crazied Scientology.” I have been fighting tears all night and it made me LOL!

  • Just checked my mail box and would like to thank Texas Broad for sending me copy of TUML signed by Tony.
    You are wonderful. Thank you! I will donate my unsigned copy to the Public Library of Cincinnati: http://www.cincinnatilibrary.org/ Also, The Underground Bunker Rocks!

    • TexasBroad

      Yay! I’m glad to see it in your hands (and I like your coleuses). Also, I wholly approve of your donation to the library 😉

      • I appreciate your kindness.

        • TexasBroad

          I appreciate you as well Dodo – and yes, the Underground Bunker does rock! I’m glad Mr. Broad dissuaded me from leaving my extra copy in a local whale’s business, where it would probably never make its way to him anyway and certainly wouldn’t have been appreciated. So much better in your hands. Thank you for your warm welcome here. I have enjoyed following your comments for a long time before I stepped in and your encouragement was appreciated.

          • It’s still worth a shot to leave it for a whale, but definitely not the signed copy. 🙂
            Thank you for your kind words.

    • aegerprimo
      • TexasBroad

        Adding this here because I didn’t see it in the album. I think I posted it the day of the book signing. F5

        • Sir_Real

          What a wonderful piece of Texana, graced by the unmistakably unshakable, unsinkable, indefatigable Unbreakable Miss Lovely!

        • aegerprimo

          Thank you! This is in Houston correct?

  • EnthralledObserver

    Check this out… apparently CO$ was right to resist the new ‘home’ for ‘Winter’ the dolphin – she was probably a spy. Good call CO$!

    Respect.

    http://www.9news.com.au/world/2015/08/20/09/19/hamas-reportedly-capture-israeli-spy-dolphin

  • anoni81b4u

    Did this guy ever partake in anything at a real scientology place … or was he just a weirdo? and If he was not a Real scientologist ,, how did he get the ot levels ?
    Oh my brain hurts

    • Snake Plissken

      On ASR and ESMB a couple people who were on staff at the Miami Org confirmed that he dropped quite a bit of money on courses and material there, they also said he was flat out crazy and a bullshitter, but they were more than happy to take his money, until the shit hit the fan, then they went into their typical damage control mode to distance themselves from him, swearing he was never involved with them.

      As far as where he got the OT materials, he probably got them from someone who recently left the cult and knew he was dropping a lot of cash on Scientology material. The OT materials were floating around in the freezone for a while before he got a hold of them, David Miscavige pissed out enough people that even OT VIII and the people who were delivering it were leaving shortly after it was released.

      • anoni81b4u

        Thank you. Interesting .

  • MostEthicalPimp

    Speaking of People Pretending to be Scientologists. At Flag some local picked up enough Scientologeese to be able to eat at the sand castle. It took them about 2 weeks to figure out he wasn’t a Scientologist. Talk about your higher levels of awareness. Anyway, after that people had to wait in-line to have there meals billed to their accounts.

    • anoni81b4u

      I have mixed emotions about this one…I don’t like thieves, and I don’t like scientology.

      • MostEthicalPimp

        What I like it about is you’d think OTs could spot a liar a mile away. Oh, wait.

        • anoni81b4u

          That is an interesting point, you would think so. But.. I just had a person with 40 years in scientology tell me it was normal for civilians to salute each other.

          • LongtimeLurker

            Were you also the person who was angrily told that salute doesn’t actually mean salute and you were stupid for thinking it does?

            • anoni81b4u

              I am that stupid person, Thank you for noticing. All this time and I thought only police and military did it.. I must be a fucking moron 🙂

            • EnthralledObserver

              It was all in the definition… get out your dictionary, you dolt!

              :p

            • LongtimeLurker

              You silly!

              The other meaning of salute – shit that was great.

              Why can’t they just nut-up and say “yeah, I think that’s weird too, like Catholic priests wearing dressing gowns”. Idiots.

          • George Layton
    • MostEthicalPimp

      On similar Vane. My dad knew a Scientologist who went to flag and was kicked out of the Sand Castle because they didn’t believe she was a Scientologist. They told her “You don’t belong here and this is for church members ONLY.” She should have listened and left. But no the next day she had to come with a note from flag land base saying that she was a Scientologist. This wasn’t even her first day eating at the Sand Castle and it was her second time stay at flag.

  • Juicer77

    Congratulations!

  • EnthralledObserver

    Congrats! 🙂

  • PlanetJ

    Congratulations! 🙂

  • Todd Tomorrow

    Miscavige had Jason in his back pocket.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwMGFteBQcc

  • Sookie Sookie

    That’s an amazing accomplishment!

    When someone goes through an experience that makes them worry about their own judgement, I don’t think there’s any better antidote than accomplishing something like this. At least, that’s what’s worked for me. I hope it has that added benefit for you, SPW!

    • SP Wogsy

      Thanks Sookie. It’s more bittersweet for me than anything. The celebration is more for my parents, but at least it got done.

      • Kay

        Parents love that stuff…even if you didn’t feel like doing it. (I have been there) They will live on that for a long time. 🙂

      • It’s a good thing to have. Look forward 🙂

      • Juicer77

        But you did it, and deserve the credit. So satisfying to be able to say DONE!

        • SP Wogsy

          Yes! I think i’m going to go throw paint on a wall now : )

  • Madison KinSmed

    Congratulations!

  • Kay

    As “The Continental” (SNL skit with Christopher Walken) would say: “Wowie wow wow wow !!! ” Way to go…applause !

  • Sebastian L. Jackson

    Off-Topic: Bunkerites may find this post disturbing. And ironic.

    http://christiannightmares.tumblr.com/post/126913982361/discarded-wax-figures-of-tom-cruise-john

    • Missionary Kid

      Saw it. Those little museums cut all the cost corners they can, because their audience is limited.

      • Sebastian L. Jackson
        • Missionary Kid

          Since most wax museum heads aren’t that close to the real thing, and fundies don’t go to many movies, (they have all sorts of sin in them), probably, it took an outsider to notice.

          I doubt if many of them will complain.

          • Sebastian L. Jackson

            I’d be more interested in how Tom Cruise might feel about having his figure cast as a character from Xenu’s brainwashing flicks.

      • LongtimeLurker

        This is outrageous! Their audiences are among the fastest-growing…are already the biggest…

        …screw it.

        • Missionary Kid

          Snickersnort.

  • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

    Woo-hoo! Good for you! Consider Jon Atack your post-graduate work. ; )

  • Congrats and I wish you all kinds of success!

  • Juicer77

    I mentioned this once before, but I was at family dinner a while ago I mentioned to my aunt that I was starting to read this website about Scientology called the Underground Bunker or something. She said, “oh, yeah, my cousin is an academic who writes about that… his name is Stephen Kent.” O.o

    • Kay

      O.o is right !!!!

    • Help me Kevin Bacon.

    • LongtimeLurker

      I’m picturing her as she said it chewing and waving her fork around while distractadly reaching for the gravy boat.

      So you’re Stephen Kent’s…cousin-in-law-law? Grand Neiphling?

      • Juicer77

        Nothing at all. Not trying to brag, just the connection was so odd it freaked me out a little.

        • jazzlover

          I think this may make you a Scientology critic emeritus, twice removed, of course 🙂

          • Juicer77

            Just an interested looker-on. I claim no special knowledge or insight.

            • jazzlover

              I am teasing you, like any NYer should 🙂 That’s great, though. Perhaps you’ll have a chance to speak with him in the future.

        • LongtimeLurker

          I know you weren’t, sorry

          And I agree, those kind of connections freak me out to. And you think – why wasn”t I told earlier?

          • Juicer77

            Plus I’d been reading all these Fair Game stories… creepy

            • LongtimeLurker

              omg – I didn’t even think of that.

              I’ve been wondering how elaborate I need to make my disguise for my Org visit.

              How paranoid is paranoid enough?

            • Juicer77

              I have been by the Org near Times square twice now, once while the NYAnons were there, and once taking pics of Miss Lovely. As a never in and having no real influence I wasn’t concerned. Do what makes you most comfortable.

            • Missionary Kid

              First, have a fake name, address, and phone number ready, as well as a complete back story on yourself. My advice is that you don’t show that you have any extra knowledge of $cientology.

              It’s hard to play dumb, but I’d say to act like you’re from out of town, just visiting someone in town. They’re probably going to be overjoyed just that someone walked in the door.

              Get them to expand on any claims they make. I got the guy at the desk to start talking about christenings. Of course, he said it was more like a commitment ceremony than a Christian christening.

              Think of what a normal person would ask when they came in, and ask questions about the place.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Thank you.

              I was leaning towards much of that.

              We’re pretty much purely going in to find out if they’re renting parking spaces, because as we were discussing the other day, the Org’s parking lot is weirdly busy. The out of town thing will help wth that. Good idea.

              I also just want to see inside.

              I don’t really mind if nothing Scientology related even comes up.

            • Missionary Kid

              What general area of the country is the org at? (I don’t want to tip your hand). I had the same feeling about the parking lot of org I went in to. I asked them directly, and they claimed that all the spaces were being used by people in classes. I think they were lying, but without sticking around and watching, I couldn’t prove it.

              I also think that they wanted people to think they were real busy.

            • LongtimeLurker

              It’s in a suburb (not far from the center) of a city with a population in the millions.

              You know I’m in Australia right?

              People more knowledgable than me from the Bunker have expressed surprise that an Australian Org could have dozens of cars in the lot every day and that they would all be staff/course takers.

            • Missionary Kid

              Wrong continent. I didn’t know you were in Oz.

              What you need to do is drop by at about the time that people would be getting off of work. Since you’ll probably be on the ground floor, you’ll be able to see if people are coming or going from inside, or, if the parking spaces are being used by people in the building.

              Look for people in sea org uniforms, and, when you see people, ask what they’re doing, like any curious outsider, and what their dress means. If they lie, don’t challenge them. Don’t use $cientology lingo, and ask them what a word means. Since they have video cameras all around, try to make your examination as casual as possible.

              You can approach them as if you’re studying different religions, or, if the building has an interesting architectural or historic feature, ask hem about it. You can pose as if you’re meeting someone, so you have to leave if you want to cut things short, or you can have someone call you on your cell, and you can act as if you have to go, if need be.

              If you give a fake phone number or address, you’ll only be able to visit once. You can claim you’re visiting a relative, and “screw up” on their address and phone. If they offer a personality test, take it, but make up shit that might be believable as a part of your fake personality.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Good stuff!

    • jazzlover

      You’re a star. Do we need to genuflect before you now? 😉

      Btw, this in Professor Kent’s wiki entry had me chuckling because of the dripping irony:

      Kent’s work on Scientology’s RPF has been criticised on methodological grounds by fellow sociologists J. Gordon Melton and Lorne Dawson for its almost exclusive reliance on the testimony of hostile ex-members, and Kent’s “lack of first-hand inspection of the RPF”.

      Which non-Scientologist in their right mind would inspect the RPF? 🙂

      • Missionary Kid

        Which of those academics have ever been allowed within a quarter mile of RPF?

        • jazzlover

          “Sure Kent, we’ll let you see it. Just give us a month to fumigate and clean up any body parts they may be lying around — pure coincidence of course”

          • Missionary Kid

            I’m willing to bet that the Hole has been converted to something else, and all evidence destroyed after Going Clear.

            • jazzlover

              Where are all the aberrants now?

            • Missionary Kid

              Probably in another sooper sekrit location at Gold.

      • LongtimeLurker

        I’m sure Kent looked everywhere for non-hostile ex-members.

        Idiots.

    • Beth

      cool! I saw today on Amazon that he has a book scheduled to come out April 2016 :
      “Scientology in Popular Culture: Influences and Struggles for Legitimacy”
      Looking forward to that 🙂

  • LongtimeLurker

    You can’t see, but I’m doing that dance where it looks like you’re stirring something with both hands, and I’m singing “Go Wogsy! Go Wogsy! Go Wogsy!”

    • SP Wogsy

      It’s your birthday! It’s your birthday!

      • LongtimeLurker

        Yeah, that’s the one!

  • Missionary Kid

    OT. Warning, it’s somewhat of a rabbit hole.

    Here’s a bunch of home schooling that is as bad (if not worse) than the Delphi Curricula. I stumbled on it when I was reading the Raw Story about Josh Duggar, (the oldest son in the TV show, Nineteen Kids and Counting), who had molested his sisters and one other girl when he was younger.

    Josh, who was fired from his position at the Family Research Council for the revelation of his molesting the girls, but who has had his wife and family stand by him after the scandal broke, has apparently now been outed in the Ashley Madison hacking scandal as having two Ashley Madison accounts, in spite of being married.

    The Duggar parents apparently used the curricula of the Advanced Training Institute in educating their kids at home. Everything is bible-based. It may well be worse than Delphi. http://gawker.com/the-creepy-fundamentalist-homeschool-cult-that-trained-1706969994

    • LongtimeLurker

      The freakin’ home schooling rabbit hole, man.

      Do you know about Conservapedia?

      The wiki encyclopedia from a conservative and Christian fundamentalist point of view.

      It was started by home-schooling advocate and insane person Andrew Schlafly (“quantum physics is anti-Christian, liberal propaganda”), to counter Wikipedia’s liberal bias.

      Don’t go there. You will lose your mind, and possibly even be tempted to set up a fake account and write parody articles just to see how long it takes them to spot them (ahem).

      It’s worth skimming the rationalwiki page on it though; http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Conservapedia

      • jazzlover

        Well, at least we now know why you disappear from here for long stretches 😉

        • LongtimeLurker

          Ha! God no, if you spent more than a few hours in that place…

          And the internal fights are aaaaamazing. And the talk pages – OMG (“I think it’s fine that we only have anecdotal evidence that most rapists are liberals” – actual quote).

          Rationalwiki does regular “what’s happening in Conservapedia” updates so you don’t have to go there but can have maximum lulz.

          My favorite Conservapedia articles are the ones that twist themselves into unreadable knots trying to make the facts fit with their extreme political bias.

          Like only liberal politicians lie, or only liberals are overweight.

          I’m laughing just remembering them.

          • Mockingbird

            Fallacy City

          • jazzlover

            The claim to having “anecdotal rape evidence” is pretty damn creepy, if I do say so myself.

            • LongtimeLurker

              I hadn’t thought of that.

              Thanks.

      • Missionary Kid

        Considering that it’s run by the spawn of Phyllis Schlafley, and doesn’t seem to have wide support, the amount of misinformation is incredible.

        I grew up knowing those type of non-scientists making misstatements about science, and grew to understand that they also make misstatements about the bible.

        I feel sorry for those who grew up in that environment. They’re even more clueless about science than $cientologists.

        • LongtimeLurker

          The misinformation is world-class.

          Galaxy-class.

    • ReallyMGM

      I remember an episode when the Duggers visited the local public school. Was great to see the Duggers as show and tell material for someone. You could tell the elementary kids knew they were “off.”

      • Missionary Kid

        If the Duggars hadn’t lucked into a lucrative TV contract, they’d still be living in a very small house. I consider the parents as breeders of the worst kind, but they’re convinced that they’re doing right, just like $cientologists.

        • Juicer77

          I don’t think God wants anyone to reproduce beyond their body’s well-being and ability to cope. The fact that the older kids are surrogate parents to the younger ones while the parents look on seems psychologically damaging.

          • Missionary Kid

            They reminded me of rabbits. Their TV contract enabled them to have a bigger hutch, and it really didn’t touch on their weird beliefs, from the short times that I watched the show.

            They’ve got to be in financial trouble after the scandals.

            • Juicer77

              Depends on how much they saved while the money was rolling in, I guess…

            • Missionary Kid

              It aint rolling in now. Didn’t they just make a pitch for a new show about the family recovering from the sin? If they did, it’s really dead now.

              They’ll say that god provided the house for them, but I doubt that they’ll see the son’s actions as anything but the devil tempting him, instead of facing the fact that their weird ways have unintended consequences.

              Instead of them pulling it in, it’s the doings of the Devil.

            • Juicer77

              Yep. Apparently they never learned the doctrine of Free Will.

            • Missionary Kid

              They might have a different definition of what free will means. IIRC, the range of freedom may differ. One has choices, but whatever one one chooses all fits in with what god has planned for them, depending on what their choices are. The amount of rationalization is incredible.

          • LongtimeLurker

            That was the part I had a problem with as well.

            Can these older kids just have a childhood please?

            And can the younger ones have parenting from the all the currently available parents in the household?

            And if those things aren’t possible, maybe that’s GOD’s way of saying you’ve overdone it.

          • PlanetJ

            Totally agree. It pisses me off when people have a lot of kids and push the younger ones off on the older ones to raise.

          • Missionary Kid

            I’m not convinced that it’s psychologically damaging. In large families, kids have to watch out for their siblings, and the responsibilities should be commensurate with age. Parents can’t do all the kid watching. I’ve seen people who grew up in large families where they turn out quite well, as responsible adults who know how to deal with children. On the other hand, I’ve seen people who grew up in small families be really fucked up. Of course, it’s not a good thing to have the kids assume all the responsibility all the time.

            It depends on the family dynamic.

        • ReallyMGM

          My reply to anyone who supports the Quiverfull movement is Rusty and Andrea Yates.

          • Missionary Kid

            Tragic, just like the $cientologist son who killed his mother because she was convinced that $cientology could help him and that he shouldn’t take his meds.

            • ReallyMGM

              Exactly, MK. The MDs (psychs) report Jeremy Perkins is now a stable patient with appropriate medication. Andrea Yates had been, too, before a lazy psych changed her meds and released her from the hospital. All of the warning signs were there and everyone ignored them.

            • Missionary Kid

              It’s tragic when belief overwhelms evidence. Thanks, I couldn’t remember Jeremy Perkins name.

            • Juicer77

              Mrs Yates’ story is so tragic, but the psychiatrist counseled her that having any more children would almost certainly send her into a psychotic episode. She had been on and off medications right up until the children were killed. I’ve studied this case a lot because there are so many factors involved. Just awful. Her husband has always struck me as a cold person who did not care for anything but his own agenda.

            • ReallyMGM

              There were 2 psychs. The first one treated her correctly. Had her on appropriate meds, told her no more kids, really wanted kept under hospitalized under strict supervision. But for some reason (probably insurance) she got switch to another dr who changed her meds, and let her loose. He just dropped the ball. He should have been held accountable. And you are correct about Rusty. He divorced Andrea, found another wife and began breeding again.

              That case showed so many flaws in our mental health system. 28 days and you are free, fixed or not.

  • Juicer77

    Tony, correction is needed on Dr. Kent’s first name. Just because I know you like to get those things correct. And he deserves full credit for his tremendous body of work.

    • TonyOrtega

      In his personal emails to me, he calls himself Steve. I’ll make it that. And next time, you might email me, Juicer.

      • Juicer77

        Sorry. Noted.

      • I email you all the time about stuff I bought, movies I watched, the local weather and all I get back is this weird “this server does not exist, according to your restraining order” message. Whatever.

        • Mockingbird

          If you go back to Scientology you can use ignore tech on restraining orders .

        • Juicer77

          (Honestly email didn’t occur to me on a name correction… people post corrections in the comments and TO usually just says “fixed.” *slinks away ashamed*)

          • Don’t feel ashamed. We all have emotions and misunderstandings. Even Tony.

          • LongtimeLurker

            aaaww, ya little bubble-headed metal person.

            I still love you.

          • EnthralledObserver

            The ever evolving ‘rules’ of the Bunker…

            • LongtimeLurker

              You just broke 3 in that response alone.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Well… yeah… now.

              It’s a challenge to keep up to date.

          • Jo

            I wouldn’t worry about it.

          • Baby

            NO… don’t worry one second about it.. NOT one.. smooches.. we all do it.

      • Mockingbird

        Tony did you do a story on the recent Texas politician linked to CCHR ? Somebody in an ex cult group on Facebook asked and I found the story on Salon and Rolling Stone , but wanted to post yours if one is available .
        http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/scientology-group-lobbied-against-texas-mental-health-bill-20150714

  • MaxSpaceman

    Fishman – feet to the fire. Taking on Scientology Incorporated back when.

    “… witnesses will be called upon to testify regarding the physical abuse and hypnosis performed upon myself, as well as Church policies regarding these practices. Some will be asked to testify regarding the Church policy regarding suicide and murder, as well as specific orders directing me to assassinate Dr. Geertz and to have me Defendant commit suicide under the auspices of an “End of Cycle” order. Others will be asked to testify regarding the Church’s involvement and direction in ordering me to commit securities class action fraud in a Church operation known an Operation Acting Classes, for which I was arrested and plead guilty in an Alford Plea (of innocent but responsible for the acts alleged), and other criminal acts which I was directed to commit on behalf of the cult, including the Ethics Bait Project and Bingoing.”

    http://kspaink.home.xs4all.nl/fishman/declarat.html

    • Snake Plissken

      The cult trying to get Fishman to kill himself is not unreasonable

      If you read The part of my story I never tell (my wall of fire) thread on ESMB, it shows the mind control that gets Scientologists to do this.

      http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?15434-The-part-of-my-story-I-never-tell-(my-wall-of-fire)

      You really need to read the whole thread to get the background but this is the page (post #87) that explains what happen, and it just so happened to be at the Org that Fishman was frequenting

      http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?15434-The-part-of-my-story-I-never-tell-(my-wall-of-fire)/page9

      So Rick got declared. He was still living with is wife and working in their RSVP franchise. They were planning their divorce. Somehow Rick expected it to be friendly and nice. He wanted enough money to get his own place and custody of their daughter. He also wanted to maintain a relationship with his wife to some degree. In his mind they just had to disconnect enough to get her back on and through her OT levels and everything would somehow be okay.

      Marilyn knew this wasn’t going to fly, but had no intention of giving up half of the business or her daughter to him. Meanwhile she was making him breakfast every morning and riding to work with him and all buddy buddy. She complained to me that she didn’t know how to get rid of him.

      I told her. I said you are being very nice and making it easy for him to stick around even though it is hard for you and making you miserable. I told her that Rick doesn’t handle pressure well and she has always helped him by taking the brunt of any pressure he has bourn. I told her to stop being so nice to him and he’ll blow. It’s his nature. It’s his most predictable case phenomenon. He has a history of blowing. His identical twin brother blew his brains out. It’s what they do. You want rid of him, just be mean and nasty.

      She had a hard time with this. It’s definitely not in her basic nature. She is a caregiver and enabler. Playing rough isn’t going to come easy to her. She told me also that Rick had told his attorney that the church had confiscated his gun and he wanted it back and since he was declared he had nothing to lose by pressing charges against me personally for keeping his gun. I told Marilyn I didn’t want his gun. I didn’t care what happened to him at this point I just wanted him off our lines so we could get on with it.

      I gave his gun back to Marilyn and told her to do whatever she wanted with it. She gave the gun back to Rick. She was mean and nasty to him. She told him she wasn’t going to just give him what he wanted in the divorce. On a Friday in November of 2002 he shot himself in the head at the beach in front of a group of teenagers. It turned out they were friends of his daughter.

      I heard it said by several Scientologists that it was the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics.

      • Sookie Sookie

        That is some heavy shit.

        I rarely pour a shot of whiskey, but that was my first thought after reading this. One death, and who knows how many people more or less permanently fucked-up because of it.

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    “I know what you’re thinking. Bates Motel? Worse. It’s the Scientology Celebrity Center. Tom Cruise, are you in there??? #batesmotel”
    https://instagram.com/p/6lg2wkG7Kt/

    • Observer

      • The sorrow of Creston, the nightmare of Hemet.

      • LongtimeLurker

        Psychlo.

        PSYCHLO!

        So jealous I didn’t make that connection.

        Also, how perfect for Norman is the angle on that Miscavige photo?

        lol

  • Mockingbird

    I highly recommend his stuff at Lermanet.com and infinite complacency too.

    • SP Wogsy

      Thanks! On my list!

      • Mockingbird

        Enjoy . 😀

  • SarahDB

    Good evening Bunkerites! *waves to lurkers* You CAN do something to stand up the Co$ by Red Xing one or many of their clammy, scammy ads on Craigs List. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-Kvg78kCcvo5gL7UfPcmhmbsagTNtdj0y2LAiHVFrCU/pubhtml

    Spread some Bunker love by clicking the heart above, and/or donating to the book tour/blog fund (Boston’s next, can’t wait!).

    …your natural interlude

    • Beautiful, Sarah.

      • SarahDB

        I’m so glad people post their photos on the interweb so one can borrow *cough* them.

  • Juicer77

    Question re: the Russian raid(s). It sounds like no one is in prison awaiting trial either from last year’s raid or this most recent one. Trials are forthcoming but are the accused free until then? It’s not clearly stated but I would not wish even a Scientologist to be held that long awaiting trial.

    • There is just not enough information at this point. And Russia is on a shit list. Time will tell.

  • LongtimeLurker

    Social Media Update********Per Wickstrom Edition

    I’ve attached an image of the results of searching “Per Wickstrom” on Twitter.

    For anyone for whom it might be hard to read, I added red indicators on the left showing negative tweets.

    The small blue indicator repersents the “positive” search hits.

    I only scrolled down so far, but this went on for a long way

    Of note;

    – Although I don’t know everyone’s Twitter name, the tweets are not only from Bunker readers.
    – most of them mention TonyOrtega.org
    – most of them mention Google

    Also note, in the blue area, the poor bastard who shares his name.

    As you were.

    Refresh
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/bb6da2305921421ff8ea5fa22781db7ddb92013b2a86935f1d66f3c1e90a349b.jpg

    • TonyOrtega

      Barbra Streisand would be proud.

      • LongtimeLurker

        The system works!

    • daisy

      Thank you for showing that , its encouraging

      • LongtimeLurker

        It is, isn’t it? I was pleased when I saw it, thought I should share.

        I had a couple of responses to my tweets, asking for more details, so that was good too.

        Hey you know that ‘jazzlover’ and I were just kidding around last night, right?

        I realised after, the jokes wouldn’t make sense if you don’t know the background – some Scientologists actually think the commenters here and elsewhere and the protesters who turn up in real life are paid by pharmaceutical companies to oppress them, so I was just riffing on that.

        You might have already known that, I can’t remember.

        • daisy

          I never thought anything about it. I am pretty good at not taking offense, yesterday was a sad day.

          • LongtimeLurker

            Good.

            It was.

    • Kay

      “Per Wickstrom” seriously sounds like the name of some character in a Jane Austen novel 🙂
      Good Job, Lurker !! I enjoyed seeing this.

      • LongtimeLurker

        Pleasure, treasure.

        It made me feel ‘good’ (not wishing him harm, just wishing him to wake up and stop being an asshole) so I thought I’d share it.

        I haven’t read enough Austen, but it always makes me think;

        “Per Wickstrom kicked his Solar Yacht into overdrive. He knew if he didn’t get to Venus before the Mondrovian Horde he might never see Moon Princess Calliope again.”

    • added to my next blog

      • LongtimeLurker

        eeeeexcellent.

  • L. Wrong Hubturd

    Kind of tying in with the Fishman, scammer extraordinaire story, what is the deal with Grant Cardone? I think he is NOT a true Scientology believer. I think he found a niche to exploit and Bob Duggan is his latest, greatest mark. No bromance, just calculated love bombing to get Bob to make bigger and bigger donations, all of which Grant will get a cut of. Thoughts?

    • MaxSpaceman

      Looks like Oat Tea 8. Probably plays the believer or is one. It’s the money he’s after. As evidenced by his latest 1 to 3 year Project Billi – to become a billionaire.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Oh wow, did not realize he went all the way. That makes me think he is a true believer AND in it for the money. Might make a good successor to DM.

        • Grant as DM’s replacement?! I would pay cash money for that to happen! And invest in popcorn.
          All of a sudden, Donald Trump seems like a pretty cool dude.

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            If the Repubs want Trump, why not Grant in place of DM? If you’ve got a some money to invest, I’ve got a ancient railroad bond back from when Pluto was still a planet to sell you. Not as swank as Venus, I know, but lovely this time of year.

    • Most likely. Also, I really like his shower square thingy, but he kind of destroyed it for me.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Shower square?

        • Shower head in his shower room. It was in the video he posted on FB and it was linked here a few days ago.

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            Oh, I was imagining some kind of Shamwow product for cleaning the shower that he was hocking in his TV channel or something. Speaking of TV, this idea for the KCET Scio channel popped into my head. Remember the Man Show? Best buds Grant and Bob could be the new hosts. Elena could jump on trampolines in slow motion at the end. Who should be the drunk band leader that chugs the Ziggy Zaggy beer stein?

  • Just remembered that fun incident in Denmark with former Sea Org members (Robin Scott) impersonating mission from Int, getting OT materials and eventually leaking them every fucking where. Pioneers, pretty sure.

  • Baby

    Thought I would drop this off.. going to watch a movie.. Life is getting in my way lately.. taking a small break..xo baby.. It really reminds me of Scientology.. f5
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB1GF5FGZYw

    • Vaquera

      You are the one and only…Baby. xo

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Just make sure to check her ID. 😉 And don’t touch the hookah, got it? I learned the hard way.

        • Vaquera

          No worries, my lungs are pure as the driven snow.

          • Baby

            xo

            • daisy

              II smoke with you baby and I will bring my own Hooka .You bring the booze and ant-depressants.

            • Baby

              Alrighty daisy dukes.. sounds like a plan Stan.

        • Baby

          hahahhaha…. Hey you can mess with me..you can mess with my car..but ya don’t mess with my Hookah Buddy

      • Baby

        OMG..haha.. ” Hare Krishna” One is plenty of me..trust me.

    • seriouslyWTF

      Hi Baby. My mom turned 96 today. Thank you again.
      xoxo

      • Baby

        AWWWWWWWWWWWW you are so sweet WTF… Happy Birthday Mama.. Wow..96.. unbelievable.. She is a sweet sweet woman.. You both are so lucky..

        You give her a big old kiss from me honey.. xoxo love baby..Thanks for sharing.. It was my pleasure..xo

    • PlanetJ

      I read about this a couple of years ago..it’s so sad. I could not ever give up my child for anything or anybody. ever.

      • Baby

        I agree Planet.. tragic.

    • Breaks all around.

  • cricitologist

    Ortega asked endoftheQ “What’s with the personal attack?”

    What exactly is the rule or expectation around “personal attacks” in the underground bunker?

    • what’suppressive

      Two man enter one man leaves!

      Oh wait that’s Thunderdome.

      • LongtimeLurker

        You’re my hero.

    • anoni81b4u

      You are allowed to say “nany nany bo bo” but only in lowercase.

    • Supper Powers

      Will you hand the insultee a hanky after?

  • TexasBroad

    Thanks to whomever provided the nighttime pic of TUML at the Houston Mission. From Tony “Miss Lovely pays a nighttime visit to the mission in Houston — perhaps the largest city in the western world with only a mission and not an org” —- Happy about that, but does anyone know the reason why? Did it just never take off in Houston? Was it once thriving, but never quite enough to get an org? It is in a small strip center with a coffee shop, a bead shop, and a metaphysical shop (according to Google Maps – I haven’t been there).

    • aquaclara

      Well, since Captain Davey has never been to Texas… Lol.

        • aquaclara

          Hi, Dodo! I’m back…was away for a bit of a break, but summer’s over now! Are you back on third shift or just awake? I’m getting kid texts about classes someone was supposed to sign up for but hmmm is stalling and thinks mom won’t really notice. how silly….said kid thinks if he sends them late, he will catch me when I am sleeping. alas, I am wide awake.

          Nice song, btw. I have a good memory (no need to wake the rest of the household). Puppy Clara loves to sing along, er, howl along, so we will save this gem til morning.

          How are ya?

          • I am good, great to hear from you! I can’t talk much right now, daisy is poking me. mlkdduh…xk!ll;s

            • daisy

              Theres not a chance in hell I will be poking you again until you show the other wife the door

    • I was there around 2005. They had a small field that was fallen apart. Their mission holder was my pc briefly. We (Cincinnati Org) recruited couple people on staff from Huston and couple for services. None lasted long here either. I did like their mission holder though. Wonder where he is now.

    • LongtimeLurker

      I was wittily typing “Open Carry” and I thought I should double check.

      Just goes to show you should never assume.

      • TexasBroad

        Open Carry recently passed here, effective Jan. 1, 2016, I believe. We’ve long had Concealed Carry. Only my avi carries however.

        • LongtimeLurker

          Yeah I just saw the 2016 date in my search.

          I’ve tried to work out what your Louise is carrying (for like 5 seconds, not in a creepy way, hopefully) but it’s a bad angle on them.

    • Vaquera

      TB, I 100% defer to Dodo’s recollections.

      I can only add this one bit of information — In Toronto, during the Going Clear conference, while sitting around the community table in the bar (after lunch or dinner, I don’t remember which) I mentioned that Houston had a mere mission and how odd it is, that in such a large city, CoS is so woefully represented. Nan McClean’s son, John, spoke right up and said that it use to be a thriving mission and a very active community. To my recollection, he was fairly involved in some fashion. He also told me why it lost steam, but the details evade me. Anyhow…my two cents.

      • TexasBroad

        It doesn’t surprise me that it may have been thriving at some point. If you remember later, let me know. TexasBroad@gmail.com. Thanks Vaquera.

        • Vaquera

          Will do.

    • ReallyMGM

      Didn’t Christian Stolte say he was a member at the Houston mission or Org at one point? I might be wrong but I think I remember that from the Chicago tour recap. Tony would remember.

  • Rasha

    Good morning, Bunkeroos! Time to…….. wut? No way…. awright…… dammit. G’night, Bunkeroos! cya in the morning. (glares at alarm clock….)

    • LongtimeLurker

      G’night Rasha.

  • scottmercer

    Apologies if this link has been posted before. Russian government channel (RT) report on the Co$ in Moscow. Looks like the staff member (who kicks out the reporter) is attempting with his outfit to channel Cruise in the 2004 “black turtleneck” video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xA_oB8kNrI

    • anoni81b4u

      I wonder if they watched “Going Clear” and then raided them.
      Nothing gets past those Russians. (yes I am being sarcastic so I don’t get nany nant bo booed)

      • First time they got raided around 1998. It was in the Sea Org org in Moscow. My wife was there at the time.

        • daisy

          What wife?

          • oh, Hi!

            • daisy

              hee hee How could you hurt me so. I listened to that God awful Judas Priest song and everything .Are you sure your an ex scion and not a current Mormon?

            • Supper Powers

              You win the laugh of the day award

            • Kay

              daisy: no matter how often I see your AVI it still makes me laugh.

            • ReallyMGM

              I looked up close. Funny. I need laughs right now.

            • Kay

              RU having a bad night? ((hugs))

            • ReallyMGM

              Bad week. Bad health report on family member then daughters friend from high school murdered horrifically. Small school, all the girls stuck together like glue.

            • Kay

              Oh man…that is terrible. That IS a bad week. I’m so sorry.

            • ReallyMGM

              Just do me a favor. Edena Hines was more than a lurid headline in a tabloid. She was funny with an infectious laugh and her talent was apparent when she was 13. This was E’Dena. http://edena-hines.squarespace.com/blog/

            • Kay

              Sure…I will click on the link right now.

            • Kay

              I read it all. That was just absolutely heartbreaking. I remember her picture now…was she Morgan Freeman’s granddaughter? All of that energy, insight and potential eradicated for no reason. It just isn’t fair.

            • ReallyMGM

              She was actually his first wife’s granddaughter, but him and his his second wife raised her from the time she was very young. She called him granddad and his wife Mom. Her mom Myrna was very nice. Edena and Morgan performed impromptu at a father-daughter event my husband still talks about. And not because of Morgan. He said Edena could belt out a song. It was a very small school. Only about 50 girls in the grade. My daughter and her still kept up on FB. She posted an hour before she died.

            • Kay

              So sad. I remember reading about this on CNN’s webpage. She may not have known about his criminal past…some people are skilled at hiding those things. I’m sure this is really hard on your daughter. Sending thoughts of peace and comfort your way……

            • ReallyMGM

              This guy had quite a record. I wonder if she even knew? She wasn’t a pushover type.

            • daisy

              I went to the link , She was indeed a beautiful and talented woman..I feel so bad for your daughter. What a trauma. Sending you good thoughts.

            • ReallyMGM

              I just hate people only will only remember her as a headline.

            • Kay

              I can totally understand how that would bother you.

            • ReallyMGM

              Ok I am deleting stuff.

            • Kay

              How come?

            • ReallyMGM

              Referred to daughter.

            • Kay

              Oh OK…I understand. I hope I didn’t say anything wrong. Delete away….

            • ReallyMGM

              Not at all.

            • daisy

              I don’t know how to delete so I will just edit that part ok

            • Kay

              You just look for the little triangle on the far right of the page and click on that…it will give you a drop down menu and you just click on “delete.” (move your cursor to the far right of the page and it will show up.)

            • daisy

              Thanks sweetie

            • daisy

              I don’t want to pry but I am really sorry about the health report too. Take care of yourself. Get lots of sleep and baby yourself and family through this crisis

            • ReallyMGM

              TY, it’s not me, but close. Nothing much to do but do testing and make decisions on treatments. Been there done that before.

            • daisy

              Life just sucks sometimes,

            • LongtimeLurker

              trufax

            • PlanetJ

              If you ever need anything..holla at me,dear. I’m not that far away. ((hugs to you))

            • ReallyMGM

              I think you live south of the border and I am east of it!

            • PlanetJ

              Yes,I’m south..but not by far..less than an hour. 😉

            • ReallyMGM

              The joke when I did the Miss Lovely photo was my hubby asked if we would get in trouble for it. I said who knows? He said “I better load up the shotgun.”

            • PlanetJ

              Hilarious! 😀

            • Kay

              That is funny !!!

            • PlanetJ

              I had no idea there was even one around here,till I saw your photo..should have known though,with Mr.Hayes and all.

            • ReallyMGM

              Are you familiar where the old Memphis Org was?

            • PlanetJ

              And of course,you know how it is..I have to drive for miles to get anywhere,anyway. I’m not trying to be pushy or anything and I completely respect your privacy ..I’m just saying,if you ever need anything…I’m not very far away. xo

            • ReallyMGM

              Same here. Suburban squalor. 45 minutes to anything worth going to.

            • PlanetJ

              Totally get it..lol..I’m out in the sticks, far away from the street lights and traffic..it’s the price you pay for peace.

            • daisy

              Funny??? I had that taken in the 1980s, when glamor photos were all the rage.

            • SP Wogsy

              Keep calm and do Yoga daisy. you ae going to be okay.

            • daisy

              I liked the song, not the exercise. I fail to see how bending your body into unreasonable positions would be relaxing.

            • SP Wogsy

              That was the yoga I was referring too! : )

            • daisy

              Oh I am sorry .I have pretty strong feelings about remaining unhealthy

        • LongtimeLurker

          Good lord Dodo.

          Was she treated okay? That must have been upsetting at the time (and still now probably).

          Don’t answer if I was out of line.

          • She was an outer mission trainee and Russian SWAT was just there, watching the entrances, inspecting the place, they took some computers, financial records and any files/folders that were still there. They acted professionally. No one got hurt. She just corrected me that it was in 1999, not 1998.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Thanks.

              I didn’t mean to imply they wouldn’t be professional. I’ve done some research into Russian SWAT, FSB etc for a screenplay.

              Just personally I would find it confronting no matter how professional or gentle the authorities were being.

            • She thought it was a fun adventure. They also played Hubbard’s songs the whole time and acted overly happy the whole time, as not so subtle “fuck you” to the raid, I guess.

            • LongtimeLurker

              lol

            • Kay

              That’s hilarious !! BTW I answered you down-thread regarding a question you had earlier…and Lurker chimed in with a nice photo to commemorate the event. 🙂

            • Saw your reply and Lurkers pic. 🙂

            • Kay

              🙂

            • daisy

              Glad you are both okay now. I will try to get over you.

            • Honey, let me explain..

            • LongtimeLurker

              You guys are lol!

            • daisy

              Don’t even!!!!

            • Do you like Pina Colada?

            • daisy

              I thought you knew me of course I like pina coladas I like them better without the colada
              ( just the rum) The other stuff is just not necessary

    • ha, ha…. bonus points for showing a clip from ‘Trapped in the Closet’

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        Trey Parker and Matt Stone should have a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame for that episode alone! I wonder why they don’t – everybody and their brother seems to.
        (refresh)
        https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e0/South_Park_Scientology_grafitti.jpg

        • LongtimeLurker

          It’s possible they were offered it but given Trey’s oft-stated disdain for the acting profession (which makes up the bulk of the stars) they rejected the offer.

          Maybe?

          • considering they turned up at the Oscar’s in drag it’s a fair assumption

            • LongtimeLurker

              I thought the Oscar thing was great.

              But he’s got a real bug up his ass about actors, and I don’t think he’s dealing with the underlying reasons.

              Whatevs.

          • Intergalactic Walrus

            I was thinking that a celebratory cake on their star for the 10 yr anniversary of “Trapped” (November 16th) would be fun but when I looked to see where it was I discovered they don’t have star! WTF? Now I’m wondering why!

            ETA: The clams seem to think they own Hollywood ya know…

            • LongtimeLurker

              I believe anyone can suggest a star.

              You could write to whoever’s in charge.

              Kickstarter the 10k or whatever it is (I’m going off memory on these details, I might have it wrong)

            • Intergalactic Walrus

              Yeah, put it right in front of one of the CO$ buildings! BURN!!!!

            • LongtimeLurker

              God that would be great.

              I know I should know or could look it up, but off the top of your head, which of their facilities is on it?

              The walk is on a short part of Marshfield Way as well as Hollywood Boulevard.

            • Intergalactic Walrus

              5 or 6 are on the Walk of Fame. I’d pick the LRH museum. The statue of him just inside the door looks like the “Creature from the Black Lagoon”. Hideous. He’d be looking right at their star!

            • LongtimeLurker

              5 or 6 are on Hollywood Boulevard?

              I thought it was like 1. That was a strange gap in my knowledge.

              God, as a film fan that really burns my ass.

              I much prefer it when they’re out in the middle of Craphole Nowhere, like some of the pictures we see.

              G’dmmt!

            • LongtimeLurker

              It would be mysteriously vandalised a couple of times and then it would have some kind of high tech protector put over it and security cameras, and all that would just attract more attention.

              The footbullets would never stop.

              You need to look into this.

            • Intergalactic Walrus

              Then Comedy Central could hire some “security guards” to stand guard for a while to prevent a clam attack. Haha!

            • LongtimeLurker

              I will be happy to contribute to the Kickstarter campaign for this. : )

            • scottmercer

              Sea Org HQ, Hollywood Bl. and Ivar. L. Ron Hubbard Life Exhibition/Relgious Technology Center International, Hollywood Bl. and Ivar. Hollywood Education and Literacy Project, Hollywood Bl. near Vine. Hollywood Testing Center, Hollywood Bl. and McCadden Place. L. Ron Hubbard Theater, Author Services Inc., Hollywood Bl. and Sycamore.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Stop it, stop it, stop it. : )

              This is super distressing for me.

              Man they just love the celebrity thing don’t they?

            • Intergalactic Walrus

              It’s a bad joke really them thinking that they are so “in” and “Hollywood”. Psh… I should post some photos of the ridiculous display in the window of the Hubbard theater. What a joke!
              They also have The CCHR Museum of Death about a block south on Sunset, all of these are within a short walk of each other. Also the Celebrity Center is a mile or so away east on Franklin and of coarse further east on Sunset is Big Blue.

            • LongtimeLurker

              I’ve seen some pictures, and I think even video of that proud display of willful bullshit, the Museum of Death.

              F**krz.

              But you should totally post the Hubbard Theater windows. I would love to see them.

            • Intergalactic Walrus

              I need to send one of my undercover operatives down there to snap some photos. Hehe. I don’t know how often they change out the display but the one I saw last made it appear that LRH was some bigwig in Hollywood’s Golden Age. Yeah, right…

            • LongtimeLurker

              I’ve always meant to find out if the one screenplay they’ve consistently claimed he worked on is 100% BS or only 90%.

              And don’t forget – he was a pioneering aviator!…who doesn’t appear in any non-Scientology sources.

            • scottmercer

              The organization that runs that is the Hollywood Chamber of Commerce. http://www.walkoffame.com/contact

            • LongtimeLurker

              I knew that and am ashamed I had forgotten it.

              And I call myself a film addict.

              Thx, tho’

            • Intergalactic Walrus

              Wow! $30,000 for a star? And Kristin Chenoweth just got a star?

              Barbara
              Bain, Kathy Bates, Roma Downey, David Duchovny, Allison Janney, Rob
              Lowe, Debra Messing, Tracy Morgan, Gary Sinise, and William S. Paley
              (posthumous) – See more at:
              http://hollywoodchamber.chambermaster.com/news/details/hollywood-walk-of-fame-class-of-2016#sthash.KAkwzTE8.dpuf
              Kristin Chenowet
              Kristin Chenoweth
              Kristin Chenoweth

            • LongtimeLurker

              I think their influence was always less than they (and some anti-Scientologists) thought.

              But even if I was wrong, it certainly is less now.

              But as you say, they wouldn’t realise that.

        • They also made a short film (“The Gauntlet”) and another episode (“The Return of Chef”) mocking Scientology which you can view/download here: https://scicrit.wordpress.com/2014/04/29/scientology-vs-south-park/

          • Intergalactic Walrus

            Also a slight CO$ reference in an earlier episode. But “The Return of Chef” is BRUTAL! Watching it now and getting the CO$ references… OMG!
            CO$ is portrayed as a child molesting explorer’s club that has brain washed Chef into being one of them. Analogous to the clam’s mindf@cking of Isaac Hayes.

    • Baby

      Ponzi scheme.. lovin it. .. Criminal investigation? Wow.. This is good and yes Lush.. Trapped in the Closet!

      • Kay

        I loved the Ponzi scheme comment also. It always surprises me when people in foreign countries can speak such excellent English when interviewed. If a Russian reporter came to America and asked us to respond to questions in Russian…well there wouldn’t be a story to report. Kudos to them, truly.

        • Baby

          Hi honey.. yep.. agree..

  • Eileen

    Congratulations! We are all proud and happy for you!

  • PickAnotherID

    There have been reports of audio/visual recording equipment being installed in auditing rooms at orgs in the US, so I don’t think having them installed in Russia is unique. What is unique is Russia understanding the point of that equipment being there is in fact for blackmail and extortion, if not for money, then to keep the ‘mark’ from quiting.

    Considering how hard Cof$ fights not to release PC folders in court cases, citing “priest/penitent privlege”, I think they’ll find it hard to justify the recording equipment. And if you believe it’s just there to record sessions for, “training purposes”, I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.

  • Baby

    **** Tony*** are you up? I have tried to e mail you about something .. but it has gotten bounced back twice. Did you change your e mail?

  • Jimmy3

    I have it from a little birdie that our man Fishman is going to successfully escape from prison. Word is that Fishman, his cellmate and a guard all fought alongside Alexander the Great together. They go way back.

    • Good stuff.

    • LongtimeLurker

      Which one was Bucephalus?

      • Jimmy3

        Fishman looks like he could buck a phallus.

        • LongtimeLurker

          He certainly looks like he’s done some things.

    • Kay

      Then of course they fought with Patton as well, since he was there too…..

    • OTD:OutTheDoor

      Fishman was Hephastion! I challenge you to determine who Hephastion was.

  • Always Amazed

    Congratulations! Go you!

  • scottmercer

    Bill Maher compares Scientology to ISIS… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEK22s6nv40

  • ReallyMGM

    One last word about Fishman before I check out for the night. I looked back at the video, and he should have rethought his wardrobe. The stripes were apropos for his prison destination, but PINK? Just saying…

    • PlanetJ

      good night..I hope you sleep well! I’m headed that way too. This rain is getting to my joints. blah.

    • daisy

      Humor always helps. Not only that but horizontal stripes make him look fat.

      • PlanetJ

        Goodnight,Daisy! xo

  • PantalonesCalienteYDelicioso

    I’m pretty sure I just gave the neighbors an extended view of way more of me than appropriate, forgot the blinds were open.

    • I’m impessed by your ability to stay on topic, Pantalones.

      • PantalonesCalienteYDelicioso

        Do I need to start talking about the people I know who spend their weekends as furries and attending furries-focused events?

        • Nope

          • PantalonesCalienteYDelicioso

            😉 Grown ass adults who like to dress up in animal costumes resembling team mascots and pretend they’re said animals…crazy shit.

            • LongtimeLurker

              And have sex in character as said animals…you forgot to say.

              Refresh (SFW – mild male side buttock. Nice tail.)
              https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/de70bc729070c97919daf9e0a614aef4ef0e0b9cb2f63375194720c54865f999.png

            • PantalonesCalienteYDelicioso

              None of my friends go for pretending they’re unicorns!

            • LongtimeLurker

              He might be a ‘sexy’ Brony, I dunno.

              When you said you knew them, for some reason I didn’t realise you meant they were actual friends.

              Sorry about the “having sex” thing.

              Also sorry about the neighbors incident.

              We live on the 2nd story (US system) of a major corner of one of Melbourne’s busiest roads, it’s big windows on the two sides that face the road.

              During rush hour in the morning it’s bumper to bumper, and our building is really striking from the outside, so people are often looking at it while they crawl along.

              Sometimes I like to open the blinds with a flourish and when the people in their cars look up they see me in my jammie-bottoms with an empty martini glass.

              Or a feather boa.

              Sometimes just holding the cat and staring at them.

              I think it’s probably equally divided; for 50% of the people it makes their morning, the other 50% it ruins it.

            • PantalonesCalienteYDelicioso

              No worries about the having sex thing, they actually do have sex in their furries costumes I’ve been told, just not at all the events they go to. 😛

              I live in a 2 story loft condo, the back wall that opens to the patio is a wall of windows basically…sliding glass door and a row of huge windows above it, and the door was the biggest of its kind made in the U.S. for residential construction. Luckily I only have to worry about giving the neighbors a show, which I try to avoid since the pervert who used to sit out on his patio which he’d set up for ‘viewing’ when I first moved in and didn’t have blinds in the upper windows yet. Had a clear view of the upstairs part of my loft which happens to be my bedroom. 😛 The property that the gated community I’m in is on backs up to a cemetery! 🙂

            • LongtimeLurker

              Patio pervert = loser. Jesus.

            • PantalonesCalienteYDelicioso

              Hey, can’t blame him for wanting to look, he should have been ashamed to be so obvious about it though!

            • LongtimeLurker

              Oh yeah, that’s what I meant.

              I mean you can’t tell that I’m looking right now, right?

            • PantalonesCalienteYDelicioso

              The only way you could see me from Australia when I’m in California is if you had actually gotten some super powers from the co$!

            • LongtimeLurker

              Super Perv Powers!

              OT IX! Yay!

            • PantalonesCalienteYDelicioso

              Good to know that at least someone has gotten super powers out of the co$

            • MostEthicalPimp

              California huh?

            • PantalonesCalienteYDelicioso

              Yep.

              No stalking me.

            • OTD:OutTheDoor

              Was he skanky?

            • PantalonesCalienteYDelicioso

              I’m not sure, didn’t bother to have a conversation with the guy, I was busy getting blinds put up and closing them.

            • Annie

              Ooh…dunno if I’d call that “SFW”… Yeah, sure, nice tail (from whence does it originate?)…and, uhm, that giant golden dong….

            • LongtimeLurker

              Wow.

              I am stupid.

              I though that giant golden dong was a woman in a wig bending over in the background.

              I have fixed my original post.

              So sorry. Are you okay?

              The tail – I thought that too, but I was okay with it.

            • Annie

              I’m ok. Thanks! Takes more than that to scar me for life!

            • LongtimeLurker

              I’m such a mook.

            • Annie

              Not at all. Now if only that was David Miscavige in that getup….

            • LongtimeLurker

              eargh

            • PantalonesCalienteYDelicioso

              Butt plugs with bad weave hair from Sally’s beauty supply! So beautimous!

            • LongtimeLurker

              We don’t know for sure that’s a butt plug.

              He could be wearing a sports protector under his golden dong, and have aattched the base of the tail to…

              ….ah forget it.

            • PantalonesCalienteYDelicioso

              LOL – we all know it’s a butt plug. The codpiece likely has a stabilizing strap that goes around to the back and is hidden underneath that mop of extra long blonde weave.

            • LongtimeLurker

              WE all know it’s a butt plug, but some later readers might have given me the benefit of the doubt.

              That’s all shot to hell now.

            • PantalonesCalienteYDelicioso

              I’m fairly certain that the majority of bunker-readers are smart enough to know that it’s a butt plug. 😉

            • LongtimeLurker

              Damn it.

            • PantalonesCalienteYDelicioso

              Sorry, but at least you can count on a few less intelligent ones with whom the fact that it’s a butt plug will go completely over their heads!

  • MaxSpaceman

    OT. Imagine more than a few Bunkeroos be knockin back a 6 pack or two, come this football season, of this here Texas beer out of New Republic Brewing, College Station, Texas.

  • a bit late to comment on-topic but the one thing that this post reminded me of was the Spielberg movie “Catch Me If You Can”… the way DiCaprio immersed himself into his fake personaes smacks a little of the crazy personality Steve Fishman appears to have…. it would ALSO make for a helluva movie… the man who out out-conned and out-crazied scientology.

    OSA and the other Ronbots who read here and report back to tiny fists should realise that if Fishman got 21yeras then their C.O.B. should expect at least double that when it all catches up with him!

    • Intergalactic Walrus

      Kinda like Matt Damon’s character in “The Informant”. Truth is stranger (and funnier) than fiction.

      • actually, thinking about this a little bit more I think this whole story would lend itself better to a comedy rather than a drama…. I think a good script would have been right up the late Robbie William’s street

  • don’t you just hate sites that don’t provide source links…. this is kind of interesting:

    ‘Don’t expect a Scientology and Adidas, a German sports clothing designer and manufacturer, collaboration anytime soon.

    It seems like the German sportswear brand wants nothing to do with the cult religion. A report that surfaced a year ago, but has Reddit page going viral after its resurfacing today, from German magazine Der Spiegel,…’

    http://www.centriotimes.com/2015/08/adidas-will-terminate-athletes-sponsorship-contract-deal-for-being-involve-to-scientology.html

    pic

    • MM

      Here’s the original DER SPIEGEL article “Adidas gegen [against] Scientology” from 2014:
      http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/vorab/adidas-gegen-scientology-a-950569.html

      BTW, since you mention “sites that don’t provide source links”: DER SPIEGEL itself is known in Germany (and has been for decades) for *never* providing sources in their articles. One won’t normally find *any* SPIEGEL article that goes “As [some media source] reported, [something] happened”. It’s always been all the other media going “As DER SPIEGEL is reporting in its newest issue, [something] happened”. One could say that regarding news reporting in Germany, they consider themselves ‘Source’ 🙂

      There’s an online repository of all Scn related SPIEGEL coverage going back to as early as 1995 (about 100 articles) if you are interested:
      http://www.spiegel.de/thema/scientology/
      Obviously I won’t attempt to tell you what you can or can’t do, but in case you’d like to re-use some of their material I would suggest you at least take into consideration the Legalese they add below their content (They expect anyone who wants to ‘re-print or publish digitally’ one of their articles to obtain a licence).

  • SP Wogsy

    415 hearts on yesterdays article!
    Can you heart this article too?
    http://tonyortega.org/2013/07/31/death-at-scientology-michigan-drug-rehab-sparks-widespread-investigation/
    (refresh butterfly kisses)

    • daisy

      It almost worth the break-up not to have to listen to this song

      • LongtimeLurker

        haha

  • SP Wogsy

    o/T: Did anyone else watch Insurgent? It reminded me of what the world would be like if Scientology took over. It was a great movie.

  • LongtimeLurker

    Social Media Update********Per Wickstrom Edition PART 2

    In my brief interaction with Per Wickstrom’s (Per Wickstrom – AstroCaptain of Solar Command!) Twitter account I’ve noticed something.

    Yesterday he was averaging 50% original posts about drugs and psychs and 50% retweets about mostly related stuff.

    Today – it’s ALL retweets.

    The only original tweet was a hashtag of #WorldPhotographyDay.

    Co-inkydink or Streisand Effect? I report, you decide.

    • LongtimeLurker

      Additional info.

      About 18 hrs ago (IIRC) I sent him 6 tweets in reply to the last 6 tweets he’d made.

      They were snarky questions like, “why don’t you proudly declare your Scientology connections anywhere” and “Is your role in Amber Bullins’ death the only negligence you asked Google to cover up?”, that kind of lowbrow cheap shot.

      He deleted them, of course.

      But why hasn’t he blocked me?

      Maybe he doesn’t know you can block people?

      Weird.

  • LongtimeLurker

    I go now for few hours.

    Sorry about golden dong picture and accidentally saying all women are the same.

    Here is vicious bear attack to make up for it.

    Refresh
    http://animalsreact.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/funny_baby_bear_gif.gif

    • PantalonesCalienteYDelicioso

      baby beaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrr!

    • SP Wogsy

      Bwahahahaha! So cute.

      • LongtimeLurker

        The guy’s like, “what do I do”?

        byeeeee

    • PantalonesCalienteYDelicioso

      night night! I gotta go shower then maybe sleep.

      • LongtimeLurker

        G’night killer.

        • PantalonesCalienteYDelicioso

          I haven’t killed anyone!

          Yet!

  • scottmercer

    I swear I wasn’t even looking for this, just randomly watching YouTube videos, and I keep encountering Scientology references! Top 10 Conspiracy Theories That Turned Out To Be True: #4 Operation Snow White. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58mhPaUL3Uc

  • romanesco

    Somebody in Houston is suffocating Miss Lovely! Get your thumb off her nostril, you scoundrel!

  • Pierrot

    *** RED X +–+ Reminder +–+ RED X *** Thursday, 20 August 2015.

    Good morning Night Owls and Early Birds,

    Menphis (hello there) leads NYC with SFBay trailing
    Check Salt Lake City, it is begging for a few complaints about spamming.

    Flag the lies, whack a few bait & switch ads : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-Kvg78kCcvo5gL7UfPcmhmbsagTNtdj0y2LAiHVFrCU/pubhtml

    F5… HUH? by Aeger Primo https://www.flickr.com/photos/120371503@N05/13356287933/in/set-72157642802079293

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    May I suggest driving that truck down to the county dump since that is where junk like this belongs? https://seccheck.wordpress.com/2015/08/19/urgent-cchr-wus-needs-warehousestorefront-space-for-2-weeks/#comments

    “I drive the truck and do the setup/takedown of the traveling CCHR WUS ‘Industry of Death’ exhibit. This is the mobile exhibit which travels to all the various orgs in the WUS and gets setup for display. This is a vital tool for eliminating psychiatry in our culture.

    After years of use, the display must be rebuilt and I’m doing it (volunteers are welcomed). I have to have this exhibit finished and setup in another city by 1 September 2015. It is urgent that we get temporary use of a warehouse or storefront space (a garage would work) where I can work on this exhibit. I just need access to the space for the CCHR truck where I can load and unload. The closer to Pac, the better but that is not necessary.

    Of course there would be commendation and tax deductible receipt for the time/space.

    ASAP, …
    (no texts but leave message as I may be on the purif)”

    • MostEthicalPimp

      No, Assuming he has signed away the rights to this display to CO$ then he should put on ebay or donate it to a museum!

  • valshifter

    I’m just on the second chapter of Lonesome squirrel and is just comical, the things I found on this website every day is just amusing.

  • cricitologist

    When is a “personal attack”, as Tony Ortega called it yesterday, in the underground bunker warranted, and when is it not?

    • it’s warranted when twats like you comment

      • cricitologist

        What’s a “twat”? Are you a “twat”? Is Tony Ortega a “twat”? Help me out here. Are are we all just “twats” deserving personal attacks when we are “commenting” or other times as well?

      • cricitologist

        It seems to work like this:

        Underground Bunker regulars generally view it as warranted, acceptable and appropriate, to personally attack anyone who is deemed to be involved with scientology in a positive non critical way.

        Underground Bunker regulars generally view it as warranted, acceptable and appropriate, to personally attack anyone who visits the underground bunker and any underground bunker regular labels as a threat of any kind. If any Underground Bunker regular labels a person a “troll” or OSA, personally attack s are viewed as warranted, acceptable and appropriate.

        Underground Bunker regulars generally view it as unwarranted, unacceptable and inappropriate, to ever personally attack any regular underground bunker critic or critic of scientology.

  • cricitologist

    “Steve Fishman will forever have a significant place in the history of Scientology.”

    Actually, Steve Fishman might forever have a significant place in Tony Ortega’s history of Scientology. I assert that for many people that does not exist and is not of interest. Ortega wants to shape and write history, can’t blame him for that, we all want to control the narrative to a certain degree.

    • Susan_Qbird_Poche

      Steve Fishman does, in fact, exist. Agreed, that he is not of significant interest for most people, quite like scientology in that regard.

      He was / is a conman who was caught, tried & convicted. Now serving his sentence. Good. End of story.

      Re: personal attacks. This seems to be the route a person takes when their rebuttal argument is weak & unsupported. That’s my take on it.
      I believe that here in TUB, it is frowned upon & on occasion, the offending poster is banned. The Mod (Tony Ortega) makes the decision as to who gets banned.
      Again, end of story.

  • Cece

    Tony, for your 1985-2000 project. Here is a time line that may come in handy: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?23840-Criminal-timeline-of-Scientology
    Not mentioned – May 23, 1985 there was a Corp change and AOLA which was part of (owned by) Church of S of California was transferred to Church of S WUS. I was that day appointed as the Treasury Sec. All prior bills, payroll and some other files were moved to a warehouse and I started with new. At the time I understood it to be because CofS of Calif had liability’s that put AOLA at risk.

  • Jane

    Random useless trivia about that railroad…..I grew up on the shores of Galveston Bay and the embankment is still visible in places (or was when I was growing up) along Todville Road which runs parallel to the coast. I used to explore it as a kid. The first house I remember living in had been converted from the old Red Bluff station. A couple miles along the coast was Casa Mare, a mansion built by the owner of that railway. It was reputedly reinforced with iron rails against hurricanes and survived many, only falling to the wreckers ball a few years back: it had been a Girl Scout camp for many years. I was doing some reading about it and was intrigued to see that it was a scam even when first built. You can find it in Google books. The book is Slow Train to Paradise: How Dutch Investment Helped Build American Railroads By A. J. Veenendaal, beginning p 116.

  • A Fishman book would be interesting on so many different levels. As for the book signings-Go! i went to the first one and you could tell Tony and Paulette were a little tense. During the second reading passage my Service Dog (dachshund) did the ear shake thing. I felt horrible until I looked up and saw her smile and shoulders go down.

    Really you don’t want to miss this. My ex went with me and never understood why I was fighting the Co$ until then. It opened his eyes big time.

  • Annie

    I actually don’t understand how anyone could read “Lonesome Squirrel” as anything BUT a parody of Scientology. It’s quite obvious…he clearly insults, denigrates and belittles Scientology continually, whilst portraying himself as such a disgusting degenerate lunatic that it is, indeed, painful to be in his head (I made it 18 chapters with liberal breaks for air, sanity and female self-preservation). But he is distinctly making the “joke” that he was a prize member of Scientology, in all his appalling and repugnant glory (and utter lack of morals). I’m curious to hear from anyone who also actually read the thing and came out believing he was serious.

    If you have only seen his infamous pink-shirted videos then yes, he appears sincere (although I also expect him to merge into Buster from Arrested Development and jump up to make a martini for Lucille).

    • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

      Two paragraphs, any two paragraphs, from the “Lonesome Squirrel” and it was enough for me to see he was faking being a Scientologist.

      And why was this accomplished con artist scammer going to these insane lengths to pretend, I think Fishman was lured into taking on this role of a pretend Scientologist, to fake out someone else, this smacks to me of some intel community persons playing on Fishman’s glaring scamer pride, goading Fishman to this pretend fake job for some reason to divert attention for some other stuff that the intel community people wished to distract attention to Fishman.

      Fishman to me looks like he’s been conned into playing this con role.

      The writing of a real Scientologist would be far more respectful, from Chapter 1.

      A real Scientologist would have absorbed actual Scientology respectful attitude and it would NOT have worn off, and Chapter 1 starts out with FIshman’s own personality strongly still evident.

      Chapter 1’s lack of the real Scientology member more respectful attitude would NOT be totally lacking, it would not have worn off, it’d still be there and evidenced by the style at the very start of the “Lonesome Squirrel.”

      This is mentally unbalanced fake from the first page, and Fishman’s motives, I’d have to dig through all he’s written to get to his own stated motives, to see why he’s even putting on this show.

      Does anyone know what his motives were? Was he trying to get hired by the FBI to infiltrate into Scientology or something?

      Looks like he was motivated to scam the FBI that he was a Scientology expert and should be hired by them to infiltrate into Scientology.

      Makes me wonder if “we” (OSA/GO) actually put him up to this, to gain access to the FBI and scam the FBI into hiring him, and having Fishman in turn feed “us” (OSA/Scientology) on what the FBI was doing using him.

      Like FIshman was a lure that OSA was faking and creating or goading and manipulating a known scammer person, Fishman, to play act a Scientologist to sell to the FBI as an infiltrator potential person to infiltrate back on Scientology, pretend.

      This is pretty weird conspiracy, but that’s how weird Fishman’s writings come off to me.

      FIshman is a case I’d ask Merrell Vanier’s opinion about.

      • MaxSpaceman

        Watch his long video, in his Apt, with his Lawyer and interviewer.

        He’s wearing a white/pink stripped shirt

        He has a huge,collection of Scilon products. And a prodigious story of his whole track and Hubbard “theology”.

        Watch and comment on his video performance. When you have time. 🙂

        • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

          I’ll do that sometime, since his leaking of the OT materials was a great accomplishment, although the materials were going around among the freezoners and would have come out another way, but in the court case was a nice touch for history.

          But trained Scientologists would always be able to pretty much spot the accuracy of the body thetan exorcism stuff.

          Once the Class 8 lectures leaked fully, there’s Hubbard’s voice telling the actual Xenu trauma story that is the backstory to all of today’s Scientology’s exorcism to get rid of the body thetans that Xenu kept flying around here on earth.

          IN hindsight thinking how Hubbard’s “secrets” all became public, with the internet and ease of sharing written and audible material now, the internet was bound to be the source of Hubbard’s “secrets.”

          There’s more to leak, and I hope some CST staff do some leaking someday.

  • Fink Jonas

    I’m so thought Lonesome Squirrel was for real….well good to know… it would make a good funny movie tho, it would be really really funny, I can see Pee wee playing Fishman, and Marisa Tomei his wog jewish wife and Melissa Mcarthy would be Lavenda for Scientology. so many good characters in that book.