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As Louis Theroux’s ‘My Scientology Movie’ hits U.S., troubling news of co-star Marty Rathbun

[Marty Rathbun and Louis Theroux in ‘My Scientology Movie’]

On Friday, Louis Theroux’s unconventional documentary My Scientology Movie opens in select U.S. cities after a successful run in the U.K. and Australia. The movie was largely shot in Los Angeles in 2014, and besides featuring Theroux himself it spends much of its time considering the veracity and perspective of former Church of Scientology official Mark “Marty” Rathbun.

Rathbun was once Scientology leader David Miscavige’s top “enforcer” for an organization that is known for its disinformation campaigns. So Theroux challenges Rathbun: Given that background, why should we accept what he was saying as a critic of Miscavige after leaving the church in 2004? Those questions produce a couple of the film’s most contentious and entertaining moments.

When Theroux’s movie had its October 2015 worldwide premiere in London, Rathbun didn’t attend, but director John Dower said in a Q&A after the film that he’d received an email from Rathbun saying that he liked the movie. By the time we saw the picture again at last year’s Tribeca Film Festival here in New York, it was obvious that Rathbun was no longer singing the movie’s praises.

Meanwhile, at his website, Rathbun attacked readers who raised questions about why his wife, Monique Rathbun, had suddenly fired her legal team in January 2016 and a few months later dismissed a lawsuit against the Church of Scientology that her attorneys had been litigating for more than two years and that they were clearly winning. Documents Monique submitted to the court blamed her attorneys for bungling the suit and for telling her there was no money in it — two things that didn’t comport with reality, according to our legal experts. When Marty was asked repeatedly for a more believable reason, he said the court documents spoke for themselves, and he denied that there was any kind of financial settlement to end the case. (If there had been, the fired attorneys would be entitled to a substantial percentage of it. They, too, were told that no settlement had occurred and that the Rathbuns had simply walked away from a lawsuit that realistically could have resulted in a payoff from the church of several million dollars.)

And then, last September, another stunning development just a few days before Theroux’s movie was having its first theatrical run, in Australia: Rathbun, at his blog, denounced the film, calling Theroux and his producers dishonest and deceptive. (And, for good measure, he called producer Simon Chinn a “tabloid hack,” Theroux an “ass clown,” and Dower a “rimless zero.”) Just days earlier, Rathbun had made a similar broadside against Ron Miscavige Sr. and his memoir, Ruthless: Scientology, My Son David Miscavige and Me. In both essays, Rathbun defended David Miscavige from what he characterized as unfair attacks. Rathbun also wrote pieces criticizing former church members like Jefferson Hawkins and Chris Shelton (and also this website). And to ABC, for a recent 20/20 episode, Rathbun refused an on-air interview but sent a message criticizing what he characterized as an “anti-Scientology cult” that he said was capable of worse acts than anything perpetrated by the Church of Scientology.

As we told ABC, it was a shocking turnaround, a “180” in perspective that was hard to reconcile. After leaving Scientology in 2004, Rathbun had started up a blog in 2009 that for the next four years savaged David Miscavige on nearly a daily basis as it became a rallying point for a growing number of defectors and “independent Scientologists.” After 2013, however, and as his wife’s lawsuit took up much of his time, Rathbun’s criticism of Miscavige had dropped off. But to see him actually defending his former nemesis while he attacked Ron Miscavige and Louis Theroux seemed, at least to some of us, hard to believe.

And now, there’s another new development that may stun Marty Rathbun’s many former readers.

It took place in, of all places, a courtroom in Tel Aviv, Israel.

A trial has been taking place there that we expect to tell you much more about in the coming days. The two sides are reportedly in settlement talks and will soon bring to an end what has been a running battle between Dani and Tami Lemberger and the Church of Scientology.

You may remember the Lembergers as the Haifa couple who, in 2012, made news by pulling their Scientology mission entirely out of the church’s orbit and going independent. Like many other longtime Scientologists, the Lembergers were dissatisfied with the leadership of David Miscavige, and they convinced nearly everyone at the mission they run as a partnership, the Dror Center, to declare their independence. The Lembergers even made a trip to Texas to visit with Rathbun, who was then at the high point of his shepherding of an active independent Scientology scene. On their way back to Israel, we interviewed Dani during a stopover at Newark airport. Since then, we’ve kept in contact with him and we’ve also visited the Lembergers in Haifa. So we were aware that they had filed suit against the church for libel and fraud in 2014. Since they had taken the Dror Center independent, they alleged, the church had harassed them and spread libelous statements about them in a “Suppressive Person Declare,” and were trying to keep them from doing Scientology independently.

On February 20, Dani Lemberger took the stand for testimony in the trial, and we had an observer in the courtroom. On his cross-examination, Dani was questioned by attorney Mattan Ben Shaul, who represented Scientology’s Israel operation.

And during that cross-examination, Ben Shaul said something startling. Stunned by what our courtroom observer told us, we obtained the hearing transcript to make sure we had it right.

Mattan Ben Shaul: I am telling you that I contacted Marty Rathbun, that enemy of Scientology that you visited in 2012. And I received from him an email that you sent him in 2013. Please confirm that you sent an email to Marty in April 2013? I will read to you what you said about Mr. Hubbard. Admitted into evidence as N33.

Ben Shaul went through the email with Lemberger, asking him about something that made Lemberger laugh in the courtroom.

Ben Shaul: In the email I’ve shown you, you are presented as a “squirrel,” and that makes you laugh? Why does that description of you as a squirrel make you laugh?

Dani Lemberger: The person who distorts Scientology is Miscavige, and he is designating me as a “squirrel,” but he is the master squirrel. ‘Judge not lest ye be judged.’ And he says about me that I’m a squirrel? That’s laughable, he is a big criminal.

And then, Ben Shaul read from Lemberger’s email something Dani had supposedly said to a Scientology auditor in a confessional setting.

Ben Shaul: I’m continuing with the same email, reading it to you. You said in that email that if you had a pistol, with just one bullet you would put it in Miscavige’s head. You said this at Flag. When were you at Flag.

Lemberger: I didn’t say it at Flag. I said it to my personal therapist in the course of therapy, privately. That is forbidden from publishing…

Ben Shaul: But it’s your email. Did you write it?

Lemberger: My email is my private email and I don’t know if he [Marty Rathbun] was allowed to give it to you, without my consent. But the fact is that he gave it to you.

 

[A key portion of the transcript from Dani Lemberger’s Feb. 20 cross-examination.]

 
At his website, Marty Rathbun has criticized former Scientologists like Ron Miscavige and Jefferson Hawkins, and filmmakers Louis Theroux and John Dower, accusing them of being even worse than the Church of Scientology while he, Rathbun, has pulled back from the fray in a neutral position — the “middle path” he has called it numerous times on his website.

But this exchange in a Tel Aviv courtroom suggests that Rathbun is not neutral. If Scientology’s attorney is to be believed (and he said it under oath), Rathbun has actively helped the Church of Scientology in litigation against a former member, and turned over an email not only sent in private, as Lemberger testified, but which contained the inflammatory detail that Lemberger had talked (probably jokingly) about assassinating David Miscavige.

Marty Rathbun, of all people, would know exactly what a weapon such an email would make in the hands of the Church of Scientology.

After confirming the court exchange, we sent Rathbun a message.

“Are you cooperating with the Church of Scientology in litigation with a critic of the church? Are you being paid by the Church of Scientology for your cooperation? Was the dismissal of Monique’s lawsuit part of a deal for the church to pay you?”

He sent us a response.

“You are admittedly clueless. Given your serial, repeated representations that you know what ‘really’ happened, that also makes you admittedly fraudulent.”

We then sent him a copy of the court transcript to make sure that Rathbun knew exactly what had been said. He didn’t respond.

According to Texas law, Monique Rathbun’s former legal team — Ray Jeffrey, Marc Wiegand, Elliott Cappuccio, and Leslie Hyman — would be entitled to a substantial portion of any settlement made, even in secret, between the Rathbuns and the Church of Scientology.

Those who speculated that Rathbun had secretly settled will be feeling justifiably smug today.

And everyone who ever sent him an email that they didn’t want the Church of Scientology to see?

It may be time to rue the day.

 
UPDATE: When we posted this story, Dani Lemberger was unable to comment because his lawsuit was still in settlement negotiations. The next day, however, those negotiations were completed (the terms of which are not being disclosed), and Lemberger sent us this message about Rathbun turning over his private message for the church to use against him.

Hey Tony, Shabbat Shalom,

Not much I can say about Marty. I was surprised by the Church’s attorney presenting the email from Marty but I don’t see it had much impact. It gave them satisfaction that they had something on me. I laughed at the very bizarre twist.

The next day I wrote Marty an email, see below. He didn’t respond. He did answer you when you asked him about it.

Marty and Tami and I spent a week together at their home in June 2012. That got us declared. I stayed in comm with Marty the next year or so, until mid-2013. He became weird and “anti-Indie Scientology,” so the correspondence ended.

There was never a real upset between us, he has no reason to want to hurt me. Only if he is now working with David Miscavige and being paid by Miscavige would he give any info to a lawyer in Israel he doesn’t know.

That’s all I know about this. Regards, Dani

Hello Marty, how are you?

It’s been a long time since we were last in comm.

A lot has been happening at my end, Tami and I have a lovely granddaughter, Dror Center is busy, we are doing well and are still working hard trying to make a better world.

How are you? How’s Mosey and your son?

I have finished reading some time ago your book, Memoirs of a Scn Warrior. What a story! I know you’ve been through a lot, I hope you are well and life is comfortable.

As you know, my lawsuit is going through the court in Israel. There was a hearing yesterday with myself cross-examined by the Church’s lawyer, Matan Ben-Shaul. He took me by surprise when he mentioned he had been in comm with you concerning the lawsuit and then presented to the court an e-mail I wrote to you in 2013. In this mail I told you of something that came up in my auditing at Flag, concerning David Miscavige.

I don’t think this e-mail has a major impact on the proceedings. Still this was upsetting to me since I did not expect you would act in any way to hurt me or help the Church against me. I’m just wondering about this, what made you give them my private letter to you. Of course, you have a right to do with your correspondence as you see fit but maybe you can tell me more about this.

Please let me hear back from you. Best reagrds, Dani

 

 
——————–

Chris Shelton on Sea Org recruitment

Says Chris: “Back in 2014 I wrote an article for Mike Rinder’s blog about Scientology recruitment, specifically focusing on how the Sea Org recruits new staff. This has surprisingly not been a topic that has been covered in much detail. So after seeing a few bits and pieces here and there, I thought it was time to download most of what I know about this topic and especially combine this with the conspiracy theories that Scientologists get into following because of L. Ron Hubbard’s wacky beliefs. Anyone who follows my channel knows that I’m not big on global/international conspiracy theories and the reason for that is because I’ve been all the way down that rabbit hole and I clawed my way back out of it with a lot of study and critical thinking. That experience left me very impatient when someone starts talking about blood-drinking lizard people from outer space or centuries old plots by gangs of old men trying to subjugate the planet to their evil will. There’s enough real world nonsense, including real conspiracies, to worry about without having to dream up that psychiatry is trying to lobotomize all of us. So with that, here is my video on recruitment methods which I think may surprise some of you. This was actually one of the harder videos for me to produce in quite a while. Enjoy!”

 

 
——————–

 
HowdyCon 2017: Denver, June 23-25. Go here to start making your plans.

 
——————–

Scientology disconnection, a reminder

Bernie Headley has not seen his daughter Stephanie in 4,685 days.
Quailynn McDaniel has not seen her brother Sean in 1,788 days.
Claudio and Renata Lugli have not seen their son Flavio in 2,282 days.
Sara Goldberg has not seen her daughter Ashley in 1,322 days.
Lori Hodgson has not seen her son Jeremy in 1,034 days.
Marie Bilheimer has not seen her mother June in 501 days.
Joe Reaiche has not seen his daughter Alanna Masterson in 4,619 days
Derek Bloch has not seen his father Darren in 1,789 days.
Cindy Plahuta has not seen her daughter Kara in 2,109 days.
Claire Headley has not seen her mother Gen in 2,084 days.
Ramana Dienes-Browning has not seen her mother Jancis in 440 days.
Mike Rinder has not seen his son Benjamin in 4,742 days.
Brian Sheen has not seen his daughter Spring in 849 days.
Skip Young has not seen his daughters Megan and Alexis for 1,251 days.
Mary Kahn has not seen her son Sammy in 1,124 days.
Lois Reisdorf has not seen her son Craig in 705 days.
Phil and Willie Jones have not seen their son Mike in 1,210 days.
Mary Jane Sterne has not seen her daughter Samantha in 1,454 days.
Kate Bornstein has not seen her daughter Jessica in 12,563 days.

 
——————–

3D-UnbreakablePosted by Tony Ortega on March 9, 2017 at 07:00

E-mail tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Our book, The Unbreakable Miss Lovely: How the Church of Scientology tried to destroy Paulette Cooper, is on sale at Amazon in paperback, Kindle, and audiobook versions. We’ve posted photographs of Paulette and scenes from her life at a separate location. Reader Sookie put together a complete index. More information about the book, and our 2015 book tour, can also be found at the book’s dedicated page.

The Best of the Underground Bunker, 1995-2016 Just starting out here? We’ve picked out the most important stories we’ve covered here at the Undergound Bunker (2012-2016), The Village Voice (2008-2012), New Times Los Angeles (1999-2002) and the Phoenix New Times (1995-1999)

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of L.A. attorney and former church member Vance Woodward
UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists
GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice
SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

Other links: Shelly Miscavige, ten years gone | The Lisa McPherson story told in real time | The Cathriona White stories | The Leah Remini ‘Knowledge Reports’ | Hear audio of a Scientology excommunication | Scientology’s little day care of horrors | Whatever happened to Steve Fishman? | Felony charges for Scientology’s drug rehab scam | Why Scientology digs bomb-proof vaults in the desert | PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer | The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill | Scientology boasts about assistance from Google | The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

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  • gtsix

    So this bit:

    And to ABC, for a recent 20/20 episode, Rathbun refused an on-air interview but sent a message criticizing what he characterized as an “anti-Scientology cult” that he said was capable of worse acts than anything perpetrated by the Church of Scientology.

    Was this the most recent 20/20, or the Ron Sr. 20/20? Had to be the most recent one, timewise. Right? Because this fascinates me.

    • Frodis73

      Yes, it was the most recent one.

  • Mrs. V.

    I just saw this on a friend’s fb page: “Dance like no one’s watching. Email like it may be read out loud one day in a deposition.” Seems appropriate.

  • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

    People! Our rage-quitting stats are way down this fiscal year (and I don’t even know what fiscal means). It is customary for someone who has never commented before to do this. Could someone please step up to the plate? And make it believable. I know it’s past 2 pm, but at least it will count on next weeks stats.

    • flyonthewall
      • Frodis73

        So much better than the Jerry Maguire quitting scene.

    • OTD:OutTheDoor

      Fiscus is Latin for “treasury.”

    • Aquaman

      SCREW YOU JOHNNY STANK!!!! I’ve heard of landmass, but you’re a land ass! And you’re from Norway? You know why it’s called Norway? Cuz there’s norway anyone wants to go there! You know what the sharks say when they’re busting each other’s fins??? They say “you smell like you’ve been hanging out in Norway!” I think they’re confusing it with Iceland. Sharks aren’t especially bright. But it’s still funny.

      I’m sick and tired of you soil mammals and your constant bickering about clams and whales and whatever the fuck a rathbun is. Some sort of jellyfish probably. Those things creep me out. I only came here in the first place because the google tricked me into thinking there was whale porn here. Turns out you guys were talking about some other sort of whale that can’t even swim, much less do aquaporn. What the hell is that about?

      And there’s never any joy here. I read an article recently about a donkey rapist that had me so upset, I actually jumped off a bridge. It turns out that water doesn’t kill me, because, well… I am the fucking Aquaman after all. I probably should’ve known that it would only regenerate me and make me even more depressed. I stayed up all night crying on a seal pillow. You did this to me.

      So I’m heading for bigger and better waters like an Asian carp. I hope all you gill-less bunkerpunks fail your next personality test.

      P.S. Before I go, please remember to support sustainable fisheries. You’re not the only beings who enjoy having tuna to eat. Selfish pricks.

      • Harpoona Frittata

        “Gill-less Bunkerpunks”…love it!

      • Vaquera

        Are you a member of the Clearwater Aquarium?

      • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

        That was excellent! And I am so honored that you showed up now just in time for my rage quit comment. I wish I knew ye better, but I guess I can still tell you to go sleep with the fishes, which would normally be a threatening comment, but not to you (don’t actually sleep with fish, OK. No means no, even if it is coming from a fish)

        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/0061f1ce1978d495fd05a8f8e8652fb6db1bbed54ab3f336472a71e695c43065.gif

      • PerpetualOutflow

        Don’t get your snorkel caught in the door on the way out Aquaman. And you may want to report to the nearest decompression chamber. 😀

  • nottrue
    • Frodis73

      Link? I’d like to read this.

      • flyonthewall

        Ha! She’s talking about that anti-abortion lady who protests

        ” until an interloper tries entering the flagship “Church” and is firmly led away by a security guard, deposited on the street alongside a gaggle of anti-Scientology demonstrators. (Who turned out to be Jesus-freak proselytizers, so not that different.) “

    • gtsix

      Stephen King responds:

      Don’t you dare compare me with that shit. If I wrote it, the aliens would be believable, scary as fuck with some cosmic turtles and lights! And I would never have my characters build a shopping mall in a 2017.

      Aliens, implants, mind control, shopping malls. .. hold on, I may have something by lunch. But the leader is gonna be fucking taller than 5 foot 1.

    • Sherbet

      I like this Rosie DiManno.

      • Yeah, she writes good.

        • Hopefully she’ll do a follow-up on the Toronto Org and the state of their property taxes. (Probably paid just enough, like they did in Montreal.)

    • She estimates 2500 staff in Clearwater. I don’t think it can be any higher than 2000 tops or the Sea Org numbers get strange.

  • Syd

    Great post – I agree 100%.

    • Ann B Watson

      Good to meet you Syd.Thank you.🌸

      • Syd

        Hi Ann – I love reading your positive posts! Thank you!!

        • daisy

          Welcome , we have so many new people i am not sure who is who . Caek in the back .

          • Syd

            Thanks Daisy! I’ve been a long time reader but I don’t post often. Stupid life gets in the way of my Bunker time…… 🙂

        • Ann B Watson

          🌈⭐️

    • TexasBroad

      Welcome Syd! I know today isn’t your first here, but I don’t think I’ve said so yet.
      (When I was little, I tried to change my name to Sydney, but no one cooperated)

      • Kestrel

        “Sweetie, Melbourne is a beautiful name.”

        • Taffy Sinclair

          Just as $cilon-tology is a bee-yoo-tif-full religion.. Just aks Thom Croose, piece of shit that he is….

      • Syd

        Thank you! 🙂

  • Tracy Schmitz

    hmm, so whose the REAL evil and who has the REAL skeletons miscavige or rathbun… who has more dirt on themselves and each other?..so is marty being blackmailed? or is he back on the power trip and the scam?

  • nottrue
    • In Scientology they train you to remember to forget to remember stuff like that.

      Each one is an isolated incident and people are unable to connect the dots with abuse, bankruptcies, or the number of people who had mental breakdowns and quietly vanished.

      • gtsix

        No history, no problem.

        Gotta admit, the soma sounds better than war/peace with …. wait who??

  • Jgg2012

    A dedication for Marty and Davey:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vml8gRsFdIE

  • Observer
    • Sherbet

      But the paintings, intrepid traveler! You didn’t mention the paintings!

      • Observer

        She did acknowledge the complimentary false fingernail though.

    • Jo

      No wifi but they allowed dogs, um.

      • Juicer77

        Welcome to British hotels! (Kidding, sort of)

    • I don’t want to know what the bed was dipped in.

      • Observer

        BT juice

        • gtsix

          No. Just no. Gack.

        • chukicita

          EWWwwww!

    • Jimmy3

      Sounds like their main problem is they didn’t get to see the Lightbox. This would’ve been at least a 4-star review if they had simply taken the time to experience the Lightbox.

  • Silence of the Clams

    They’ve got that worm buried deep in Marty huh?

    Poor guy, he almost made it out. Sad thing is whatever money these two geniuses settled for, I bet Marty is already giving it back for “religious services” lol lol. Way to work the deal tiny Terror.

    • Taffy Sinclair

      I like your name, it is quite fitting.

  • Observer

    I assume Reza Aslan’s foray into cannibalism has been discussed?

    • Frodis73

      Yes, but feel free to add to our laughing at him about it.

      • Observer

        “Scientology isn’t that bad. Say, did you see me eat that piece of human brain?”

        • Sherbet

          “Scientology is just like other religions only newer.”

          • Observer

            “Did I mention I ate a piece of human brain?”

            • Sherbet

              I think he ate a piece of his own brain. The part that is sensible and truthful.

            • Frodis73

              Snort. He is going to milk that forever isn’t he? I’ll carve it on his tombstone.

          • gtsix

            Brains must be deactivated upon joining.

          • Taffy Sinclair

            …and “culty-er.” Kinda like Jim Jones’s hot-ass mess.

    • kemist

      Yes.

      I said that he has shown potential to do a Steve Erwin and mess with the wrong culties.

    • flyonthewall

      here’s a clip showing it and also the cannibals threatening to kill him. I wish they would of

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ei8IJNRBh-g

      • Frodis73

        LOL, stop talking! I wanted to see him throw poo at Reza.

      • kemist

        Now, now. Cannibals would not eat someone who’s so obviously full of shit.

        • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

          Zing!

        • iampissed

          Hubbard is safe then.

      • JJ

        Stupid point here but you are not supposed to eat human brains. Poisonous. Everything else OK though. Cept poop. Don’t eat poop. Lesson for today.

      • beauty for ashes

        Can you get anything from eating our brains like you can from squirrel brains? O o

        • Frodis73

          Actually, tey talked about this in one of the stories I read. You can get that brain disease from eating brains..but I guess not from that area iirrc.

          • beauty for ashes

            🙂 this is why zombies are so hard to have a conversation with.

        • Kestrel

          Just for the record, eating brains will NOT make you smarter.

          • beauty for ashes

            I thought it made you kind of pretentious.

            • Frodis73

              Snickersnort.

      • Sh00pZ

        Oh jeeze. Eating human brain can lead to Kuru. A disease similar to Mad Cow Disease.

      • Sh00pZ

        Wait a minute…Hindu cannibals? Devout Hindus don’t eat any animal life. I didn’t watch the video because I really don’t want to see brains eaten.

        • flyonthewall

          they’re a tiny sect and only a tiny number of people in the tiny sect do cannabalism

    • Jimmy3

      He’s all about the quest for knowledge and understanding. On this quest, some people get smarter, and some get Dahmer.

      • Observer

        *applause*

      • flyonthewall

        after the show wraps he has a busy schedule on the Lecter circuit giving speeches at universities

      • iampissed

        Here we go.

    • gtsix

      He ate human? Did he start with homo novi? Or was that dessert?

      Enjoyed the reports that Louis Theroux would not do an ISIS doc… yeah mate, not fucking dying is a good call.

    • Sh00pZ

      Speaking of cannibalism, I highly recommend the French film “Délicatessen.” Unless, of course, you can’t deal with the idea of watching French people.

      ETA “watching”

      • beauty for ashes

        For the COLOR!

        • Sh00pZ

          It is a beautiful film to look at.

          • beauty for ashes

            I rue the day blockbuster went out of business!

            • iampissed

              Your on a roll.

          • beauty for ashes

            Is that the one where he plays the saw like a violin?

      • Frodis73

        I love, love, love that movie!!! I have talked about it here but nobody has ever known it.

        • beauty for ashes

          Hey~ we talked about City of Lost Children too. One of his other movies.

          • Frodis73

            Hey, you are right, we did. Bad memory. Sorry! lol

            • beauty for ashes

              No worries. I think it was with Howdy too. Maybe? I was probably still a newbie!

            • Frodis73

              Wow, I am not sure if it was him, but that would be up his alley.

            • beauty for ashes

              This is what I remember somehow talking about the gaultier striped shirt in children of a lesser corn ( which I kept getting the name confused), then jean seberg in striped shirts. then talking to the two of you about cutting my hair super short like hers, which I did soon after. This is why I remember this.

        • Sh00pZ

          It’s a great film. I watched it online and immediately bought the DVD.

          • Frodis73

            I saw it not too long after it came out via the film club i was involved with at college. I need a DVD of it. It was actually just used at my local film club as part of the commercials they were showing to entice folks to see more movies.

  • Missionary Kid

    Rosie DiManno, a columnist for the Toronto Star, has written a piece that, if it weren’t so true, it would be funnier, about $cientology’s occupation of Clearwater. https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2017/03/09/scientologys-florida-kingdom-like-something-out-of-a-stephen-king-novel-dimanno.html

    “Creepy, like stepping into a Stephen King novel or an Attack of the Zombies movie.”

  • Harpoona Frittata

    Just finished watching Chris Shelton’s vid on $ea Org recruitment and I can highly recommend it.

    I was well aware of how intensively young $cilons are recruited, especially those who were born into the cult, but I had no idea how wacky the whole conspiracy theory-based recruitment drill is. Truly scary and beyond bizarre.

  • chukicita

    Ben Shaul said that Lemberger made the statement about Miscavige at Flag, which Lamberger immediately denies. Can you imagine the clown car drill that would have set off, had that actually happened? Sessions are recorded. What would happen to a Scientologist who revealed bad feelings toward Captain Blackheart in an auditing session, especially in the heart of tech Mecca?

    • Taffy Sinclair

      Clown car? Perfect for Miss Cabbage. He’s only 4’9!

      He could ride along w/ 7 of his best friends! Too bad he has none… only minions named Jenny Linson, among others….

  • Frodis73

    Channel flipping and some new show on CBS just made a joke about a character getting into scientology for 3 months.

  • Todd Tomorrow

    Urban dictionary is confused.
    ¯_(ツ)_/¯There aren’t any definitions for rimless zero. yet.Can you define it?

    • JJ

      Prostate massage?

      • Todd Tomorrow

        I’ve heard my Italian soccer mates talk about the ‘prostate push” but never, “rimless zero.

        • JJ

          I’m getting eye glasses and fancy crappers .

      • Taffy Sinclair

        Naw, that still involves a rim job of sorts….. jus sayin’…

    • PerpetualOutflow

      I have to admit…I think it’s kinda clever.

  • beauty for ashes
  • salin

    Peeking in for a moment (Not here much but do a read of the daily issue in the early am, and a quick read before heading to bed) – whoa! Interesting development.

    A reminder – if you haven’t clicked the recommend (just under the comment section) – if you appreciate Tony’s story, Chris’s video – give an upvote (recommend.)

    Who needs fake ‘space opera’ (imagined stories of adventures in space ginned up memories over billions of years), when space gives us real beauty in nature. Most of us do not live where we can see this in person – but the NASA website Spaceweather.com let’s people who do live in those areas – share these amazing natural events. This is an image from a fjord in North Norway on March 8th. Oh how I would have loved to been sitting at that bonfire: http://spaceweathergallery.com/indiv_upload.php?upload_id=133698&PHPSESSID=oupg7f8gndncolefi9ngfk3f76

    Can we hit 200 recommends tonight/early morning?

  • Anonymous

    If Monique got nothing, how will the attorneys ever get a cent? If David Miscavige settled with “Rue the Day” for other matters but her case? If his settlement contract doesn’t mention Monique’s case at all and the “Rue the Day contract just says no more TV appearances for “Rue the Day” or whatever?

    • Jimmy3

      I don’t sell drugs. I just know where they’re hidden, and people pay me for the yardwork required to dig them up. I’m a landscaper.

      • JJ

        PAhahahaaaa! You get a finders fee.

    • salin

      That last question makes no sense in this particular story. You suggest there may be a settlement, one that requires skirting obligation to lawyers (speculative), and then suggest that the settlement just requires not appearing on TV. But odd actions go far beyond no longer going on tv. Sync your argument to the actions of public (on the blog) attacking highly public critics, or more seriously, submitting confidential information to court proceedings – if indeed he is the source.

      • JJ

        be payoffs not settlements?

        • salin

          Oops, my bad. Yes better descriptors.

          • JJ

            Just wondering, can’t be all that money is above the table, over the table, beside the table, on the table on the porch of infinity…?

            • salin

              For some strange reason, that is one of my more contemporary favorite DM/Speech favorite references. So absurd: the porch to infinity. Sherman outdid himself with that one. Kudos for the reference.

            • JJ

              I can’t get it out of my head it is that good… wonder if there is a literal definition of.

  • Frodis73

    OT-Sweet Xenu. Hannity and the alt-right flip out. lol
    http://www.businessinsider.com/sean-hannity-wikileaks-conspiracy-theory-cia-hacked-2017-3

    I saw this tweet summary about the whole thing: So the allegedly pro-Hillary CIA masqueraded as Russia to hack the DNC
    and help Trump win so they could … take down Trump. Wut?

    • salin

      Summary: CIA: Get Trump elected over Hillary… but then we will take him down! *eye roll* like that makes sense – take him down by getting him elected! *cough*

      Glad to see you Frodis73. Even while not here often (in the comment section), I think of you often – with fondness, and hope that you are well.

      • JJ

        Get him elected… shit, this is not going according to plan Sasha, tell VP we are going to have to go to plan B. What, he just tweeted again. Shit! Why doesn’t somebody break his fingers? I told you we should have backed the fat guy from New Jersey.

      • Frodis73

        IKR?? WTF? At least most conspiracy theories seem reasonable, not really, but I think you know what I mean. With this it is like what is the darn point?

        • salin

          Continuation of convincing their base that information coming, now bubbling up, is just partisan information – so don’t look at it. It is very much like the concept of don’t look at/read “entheta” with in Scientology.

          • JJ

            I think that is why the lawyers are never Scientologists. They have to be able to look at bad things to be able to sue people and for Scientologist is is not allowed…

    • beauty for ashes

      totes magotes. sorry for saying that, but what else do you say. oh I forgot.
      nice story bro.

      • JJ

        love totes magoats. the original. with actual goat…

        • beauty for ashes

          never spelled it before. thanks for the correction.
          “totes magoats, now with actual goats” *giggles**

          • JJ

            i think there are like five different spelling and usages, it is just that it sounds fun… so any wonder it took on a life of it’s own…

            • beauty for ashes

              btw~ your fractal avatar reminded me of these pictures I took of baby ferns unfurling.:)
              https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1e5707c98fa1bb5258004049d0f6a20c5ac936a7b2635a83dac43b2719937f23.jpg

            • JJ

              cool!

            • Taffy Sinclair

              My fave fractal is romanesco. Part broccoli, part cauliflower, all BADASS!!!
              And ALL delicious!!

              https://www.flickr.com/photos/sewtrashy/5219704108

            • JJ

              way too upscale for our grocery store, what does it taste like?

              “My favorite fractal…” how long till we get a Red or Gobo? Mokie anyone?

            • Taffy Sinclair

              It tastes like a combo of the 2, but a tad more “peppery.” If that makes sense. It’s the best!

              I now get the fraggle rock reference 😀

            • JJ

              characters from Fraggle Rock.

              peppery where does peppery come from?

            • Taffy Sinclair

              My secret garden…

            • Taffy Sinclair

              Oh, now I get it! A fraggle rock reference!!👺😹

            • daisy

              That is really beautiful . I bet it is edible too.

            • Taffy Sinclair

              Indeed, Daisy! And more aesthetic than most veggies!!

              It’s hard to find, but if you go to farmers markets, specialty supermarkets, fancy restaurants, etc, you may get lucky!! I did, recently. But they over-roasted it. Bummer!

  • Anonymous

    Is Monique still working?

  • JJ

    Watched CS video. Good God Chris how did you manage to pull your head out from under that miasma of misinformation and mind fuckery and make it to the other side and see it for the greed based, life dodging, fear farm from hell that it is? Let alone having been BORN into it? Was there an ah ha moment, a gradual lessening of the hold or a wearying with the overblown process applied to every particle of existence that made the lid pop open?

    • Juicer77

      He explains in some of his earlier videos.

  • TexasBroad

    I’m looking forward to hearing about the Dror lawsuit.
    I haven’t seen any activity at Milestone Two blog in some time where I used to be a daily reader (no post at all since Dec. 7 and very few in the last Qtr ’16 at all – coinciding with The Aftermath, but it could be entirely unrelated to that)– and not very much activity out of the Religious Liberty League either.
    I found it interesting at the time that Tony had two Feb. 1, 2016 stories…one that the Religious Liberty League were forming the First Independent Church of Scientology and applying to trademark that name – a very interesting story that was left in the dust when the second post of the day was that Monique fired her legal team.
    I know nothing about the Dror lawsuit, other than there is one.

    • JJ

      No idea here. I know trade marks was one of the first things they went after. own it, control it make others pay for usage and sue those who don’t. Amen.

  • Excerpt from STAADleague website *LOL*

    “Do Scientologists believe they are descended from aliens?
    Absolutely not. Scientology holds no such belief. Any suggestion otherwise is as absurd as asserting that those of the Christian faith believe themselves descended from aliens because they believe there is a heaven.

    Some of the information one finds on the Internet concerning Scientology religious beliefs is a mixture of misstatements, distortions and outright lies designed to twist Scientology theology. These scurrilous statements, issued by the “Internet fringe,” are not only patently untrue, they are intentionally designed to ridicule Scientologists and denigrate their actual religious beliefs.”

    • Jimmy3

      Oh, good. Good. That’s a relief. For a while I was considering skipping it and not joining up. But now that I know it’s not about some freaky alien shit, that billion year contract doesn’t sound like such a bad option.

    • George Layton

      People don’t need to go on the internet and twist scientology theology, it’s already twisted enough as it is.

    • TexasBroad

      DM’s “internet fringe” is LRH’s “Merchants of Chaos” – I imagine he’s very proud of it. I wonder how often its drilled internally to reinforce thought-stopping tech.

    • Intergalactic Walrus

      “Any suggestion otherwise is as absurd as asserting that those of the Christian faith believe themselves descended from aliens because they believe there is a heaven.”

      Jeez, this doesn’t even make any sense. Just because I believe there is a Paris, France doesn’t mean I think I came from Paris, France. Why don’t they just admit it because just about everyone now knows about it . They aren’t fooling anyone but themselves with these denials. It just reinforces their image as kooks & liars.

    • Harpoona Frittata

      The bestt follow-up question there is: “So how did so many people get the idea that it DOES preach about our distant space alien ancestors? And how does this Xenu fella figure in the mix?”

      • JAW who tweeted the link is an OT V … Maybe they changed all that Alien stuff and Alice In Wonderland is now the secret materials! Who knows 🙂

        • Harpoona Frittata

          Tricksy $cilons just get tricksier as they progress up the bridge to total financial ruination and complete other-determinism, don’t they?

          If Xenu isn’t a space alien and he didn’t pack up billions of his fellow space aliens, some 75 million years ago, and transport them here to Teegeeack in order to blow them up, collect their thetans and implant us all…if none of that is true, then there are no BTs and, therefore, no need to telepathically exorcise them!

          Wohoo, we’s free beings just as we are! So, thanks $cientology for finally getting it right…and thanks for saving me from wasting a half million or more on such sci-fi, space opera idiocy!

          • Even the bible has a Version 2 he he

    • madame duran

      The “descended from aliens” line is a (deliberate) mischaracterization of what Scientology critics and informed non-Scientologists actually say/think. It’s easy to knock down or “correct” an imagined error but you can’t argue with facts. South Park and other sources have clearly spelled out the Xenu story. Scientologists who have achieved OT III and higher ARE TOLD that humans are inhabited by the souls of dead space aliens, hence the curse of “body thetans” that cause society’s ills. Aliens DO exist within the Scientology universe.

    • nateht

      They deny everything. Dianetics cures vision problems. No! Scientology makes you into a god? No! Sea Org recruits will literally spend a billion years saving people from thetan-hell? No! See they deny it all publicly but get a sucker into a closed room and bingo, yes, yes and YES!

  • Liberated

    Just heard a cult reference on tv.

    New show called Love on Netflix….the girl says” oh, I’m going to book club, we’re reading dianetics, just want to know what it is”

    It’s a new new Judd Apatow show….pretty funny.

    • a book club reading Diabetics .. Ha ah!

    • Joe

      It’s such a cute show.

  • JaxNGold

    In an earlier comment, TexasBroad said that Marty once claimed he received some sort of “blackmail threat made by the ASC”.

    What kills me is that this so-called “ASC” doesn’t exist, except in Marty’s mind. Perhaps if he looked up the definition of a cult, he’d understand that.

    • Frodis73

      Agreed. Also probable evidence that instead of reading books by Lifton, Singer and Hassan he was too busy trying to sound like an annoying Philosophy 101 student.

      • Kim O’Brien

        ugh …so pathetic to have a middle aged man do the ” if a tree falls in the forest ” . He thought that determinism was when you were just … ya know …super determined . He was actually reading stuff that my kid was reading at the same time once . The Tao of Pooh i think . She was in the 7th grade

        • Jimmy3

          Is that the one where he gets his head stuck in a honey jar and the cocaine tiger tries to cheer him up?

          • Kim O’Brien

            hey man , it’s an allegory 😉

      • Syd

        His lunatic fringe of followers sopped it up like gravy – they seemed to love his tangents.

    • TexasBroad

      He knows. He was just stirring the rue. Preparing the ground. Cleaning the garage. The “ASC” is his “internet fringe” — just a derogatory catch phrase for his own purposes.

      • JaxNGold

        I hadn’t thought of that. I just assumed — considering his erratic and nonsensical behavior/posts — that he actually believed that tripe.

      • Harmless Weirdo

        The “ASC” is his “Crooked Hillary” and “fake news.” It comes from the same mindset.

  • Fink Jonas

    Why is Marty not saying anything, why is he hiding? Better yet what is he hiding? I have a feeling when the withhold comes out is gonna be a bomb, if he still believes in the tech he knows his withholds will come out sooner or later, the church will give them away.

  • JJ

    Probably more is coming, big small and indifferent and lots of it. That is along time to be handling things in a cult and so high up. MAD. Mutually Assured Destruction. Miscavige vs Rathbun, who blinks first? And how much is street level bad, not just off tech bad?

  • Upcoming album by rap artist Rick Ross features the song, “Scientology.”

    “Rather You Than Me,” the ninth studio album by rap artist Rick Ross, drops March 17, 2017. The album features the song, “Scientology.” Unfortunately, neither the song nor a lyric sheet is available yet.

    https://twitter.com/rickyrozay/status/839922695085096960

    • Jimmy3

      I knew it! I knew they were the same person

      • Yeah, when this came across my Twitter feed I immediately Googled — Rick Ross Scientology — to get more information about the song. And then I was like, “Oh wait….”

    • Jimmy3

      From “Trap Trap Trap”

      I’m ’bout to get this shit cruisin’, yeah
      Stand at the store ’til you’re woozy, woozy
      Let’s make a movie, movie, yeah
      Movie, movie, movie
      Bitch I’m richer than Tom Cruise, yeah
      So many different meds on me
      Fuck around, call the fed on me

      So it’s probably safe to say the Scientology track is not a positive one.

  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

    Almost 1500 comments. Marty Rathbun can sure get us going.

  • All I hear right now is a soothing sound of rain. Literally.

    • Taffy Sinclair

      I do, too!! I’m justa lil north of you, dodo!

      • Hi, neighbour!

        • Taffy Sinclair

          I kinda miss having real winters, dodo. Don’t you??

  • JJ

    Scientology reference on The Great Indoors….

  • Together we will cross the river.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0YxeTjFn70

    • TexasBroad

      …and together we’ll cross the river
      Mr. Broad loved it and thanks you. I do too, but he specifically said to say so.
      ETA: And now he’s pulled up Counting Bodies Like Sheep to share with me – 🙂

    • outraged

      woah. Never heard of this group, so I checked them out. REally weirdgreat stuff lol.
      Love this….

      https://youtu.be/v2a85wOu7vo

    • Baby

      Absolutely haunting melody.. beautiful.. Thanks Dodo..

    • Baby

      take my hand..

  • outraged

    Is it even remotely possible that this email was somehow obtained without Marty’s permission?

    • Quick empathy

      The lawyer said he got it from Marty….

      • outraged

        oh right….sorry…senior dementia…

        well then, that’s awful. There’s no other way to spin it.

        • Juicer77

          I thought the same thing. It seems clear it was turned over intentionally.

          • It’s interesting that so many people here have explored every alternative that might let Rathburn off the hook. They don’t want to believe that he would still behave as he did when he had ‘high office’ in the CofS.

            Sadly, he would not do them the same courtesy.

    • OOkpik

      Scientology paid hackers to mess with Tony and Mike’s accounts. Marty may well have experienced the same kind of attention. A successful hack could have uncovered, among other items, the e-mail cited. It would not be much of a challenge to have someone make it available in such a way that it found its way anonymously to the attention of the court. Then Marty could be forced to reveal the original to the court. For Miscavige and his dirty tricks department, that would be a piece of caek and well within their non-ethical standards. The damage would be done and Marty would be on the hook as the apparent betrayer.

      • outraged

        So it IS possible Marty did not want this email released in court and used against Dani?

        • OOkpik

          An owl can dream.

          • outraged

            hahahha. Anyone can dream. :-}

  • Stephen Rayson

    Every whore has a price, I suppose. That being said, it must be tempting, especially when it’s coming from the enemy. I’m surprised more church members aren’t utterly outraged that so much of their hard-earned donations are spent by the church to make bad situations disappear. I pray it ends soon.

  • Baby

    I always thought Marty had the trump card tucked under his sleeve. He audited Cruise. Cruise is #2 MAN ..

    and Marty knows a lot of secrets about Cruise. And if Push comes to Shove he would use them to save his ass.

    • JJ

      if he does that he is truly uncouth, selfish, amoral?

      • Baby

        Yep and Hubs would be proud of his warrior while Paris is burning..because of the mess that Miscavige has made of his empire..

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    What a day to be too busy to hang out in the Bunker! I cannot possibly read through 1500+ comments, so I will assume that anything that could be said on this has been said.

    On a purely personal level, I never quite understood the drama — correction: DRAMA — that seemed to swirl around the not-all-that-charismatic Marty Rathbun. As a never-in I have no context, but as an observer of the human condition it just seemed to me that this was a person who wasn’t worth the attention. And I don’t mean that in a bad way. It just seemed so… fruitless. Time will tell, I guess, whether or not anybody ends up ruing the day that… well… you know.

    • Juicer77

      I only really started paying attention to him when the court case was going. And when it ended so abruptly with the Co$ on the verge of getting a real legal smackdown, it was incredibly frustrating. Personally I find him fascinating psychologically. But shame on me for that. He obviously has serious issues.

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        I don’t begrudge anyone their interest in the whole thing. It’s just not for me. Although, like you, I did pay attention for a short time. It was kind of like porno– I was curious, then I started paying attention, then I got interested, then I got really, really interested and then… I lost all interest.

        • Todd Tomorrow

          Porno looks like close up dental surgery to me now. I’m trying to figure out what is actually going on.

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            You’re just watching the wrong porno.

      • Newiga

        This: ” He obviously has serious issues.”

    • I think Louis Theroux understood the appeal of the puzzle of the man. Rathburn bought into a fringe belief so completely that, despite abusing others and being abused during his time in it, he publicly defends ‘the tech’ after he left.

      Since then, he’s been navigating a labyrinth of self justification that just does not make any sense, just like his guru. He really seems to believe (as many Scientologists do) that he creates his own reality as he goes along and consequently can never contradict himself. Things change when he says they have.

      Many independents operate on the same principle – they have lost their identity when they acquired the ability to make ‘the truth’ up as they go along, as do other ideologues. As a never-in I find a case study for the puzzle of why people believe, and sometimes retains their belief in something so inherently implausible.

      Also, of course, there is the mystery of why he dumped a potentially successful court case that could have done significant damage to the CofS.

      There was also the promise that he would reveal what he knew about Scientology under Miscavige. However, that’s hopelessly out of date, now (which is why his media profile has slumped) and it’s become clear that you could not trust him in any case, now.

      His only interest now is the way in which he is maintaining his delusion – and hurting others in the process and the question of whether he really has sold out, or is still engaged in his own attention-seeking agenda.

      Interest will fade after the man has used up the last of his credibility – a process which is now almost complete.

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        No argument that it is an interesting situation. More for some than others– and certainly for anyone other than me. And I think you are right. His fifteen minutes have been extended to the absolute limit.

        • I hear you. Those who have enjoyed unrestrained power are often banal, and not particularly interesting in themselves – their prominence was due to the situation they found themselves in, not their own qualities. That’s what interests me, much more than the man.

          Until “My Scientology Movie”, his media career was almost expired… and it seems that the lack of self-awareness he brought to it has inadvertently ended it.

      • Mockingbird

        I think you may be far closer to the mark than anyone else whose opinion I have seen regarding the mind of Marty Rathbun. His writing from the beginning to now has included various degrees of acceptance of Hubbard’s authority and ideas, but he has consistently shown some enduring values.

        He has acted like there is value in “peak experiences” as cult members call them which are called mystical manipulation aka planned spontaneity by Robert Jay Lifton. Lifton brilliantly describes in his eight criteria for thought reform the experiences that have been long known in hypnosis, meditation and cult practices as predictable and easily induced by a variety of methods. The key in cults is defining the experience in terms that “prove” the knowledge and effectiveness of cult methods because the recruits don’t understand several factors. They don’t know the experiences are natural and can be created by many, many ways. They also don’t know several of these natural experiences like anxiety or feeling overwhelmed or euphoric trances include increased suggestibility along with the more obvious physical and mental effects they create.

        Further descriptions of these peak experiences are elaborated on by Lifton himself, Margaret Singer in Cults In Our Midst, Leon Festinger in A Theory Of Cognitive Dissonance and further by many others which gets described by Rick Alan Ross in his highly comprehensive Cults Inside Out, perhaps the most extensive reference on cults and cult literature available.

        Marty Rathbun has consistently in my opinion had a value on the information he has acquired on these experiences. He may have eventually reluctantly rejected Scientology as laid out by Hubbard BUT tried to salvage a mishmash of his Scientology experience and some combination of other ideas to forward an image as a guru in his own right. This would to a degree explain his attacks on cult critics -like Tony Ortega and myself- that completely reject Scientology as a fraud with no spiritual truths or esoteric wisdom.

        Rejecting the alleged peak experiences in Scientology completely and wholeheartedly leaves no room for the authority Marty Rathbun has claimed by having those experiences in the context of Scientology or other similar belief systems.

        I honestly think Marty Rathbun bought into the idea which some independent Scientologists hold that he was exposed to more advanced technology by having held a high post in the Sea Org. I personally don’t believe the technology works in the manner Scientologists think it does at all and think Marty Rathbun personally doesn’t understand the tech well. I think a decent psychology student looking at materials by Lifton, Singer and Attack along with Orwell could understand Scientology better in a couple months than Marty Rathbun ever has.

        I realized in looking at your post and collecting my thoughts that Marty Rathbun had been working at cross purposes. He wanted to attain and defend his self-image as a guru from his spiritual journey and knowledge but also was moving into a position as a leader in the cult critics of Scientology. And the cult critics of Scientology in general have been moving further and further away from believing any spiritual wisdom or truth is present in Scientology.

        Information from Arnie Lerma, Jon Atack and many others including Tony Ortega has reaffirmed that Hubbard used hypnosis and plagiarized methods of influence to fake spiritual knowledge. That’s damning to the peak experiences philosophy.

        So, Marty Rathbun was stuck. I think he ended up acknowledging negative policies and procedures in Scientology gradually. He, like many others, first acknowledged David Miscavige was doing harmful things, then acknowledged some parts of Scientology were being used by Miscavige to harm or abuse people. Then he acknowledged some of the practices as designed by Hubbard are used for evil. Then he acknowledged more and more parts as fundamentally harmful and evil. Then he acknowledged Scientology as a failure.

        He has to reconcile that he wasted decades of his life on a pile of lies. That’s the tough part. In Traumatic Narcissism Daniel Shaw talks about how a narcissist can feel they can’t face certain ideas or feelings.

        A cult member can go through a similar or identical experience. The feeling that losing cult membership or faith would be worse than dying is what Shaw calls mortification. It’s a fear that is equal to or worse than death.

        I had it for years. The deep feeling your identity, values and life are so thoroughly defined by your faith and it is more valuable than your life is life defining. It shapes your perception of everything.

        So, it creates an overarching bias to keep your faith and not ever have it falter. Now, for the traumatic narcissist it comes from a mental state of holding trauma and shame that can’t be faced so it is denied and dissociated from constantly. The malignant narcissist feels deep shame and inadequacy they hate and dare not face so they project it onto others ruthlessly.

        So, if Marty Rathbun can’t face his vulnerabilities and failures he is extremely unlikely to ever progress much. I mean he likely won’t ever deal with his feelings or face his failures and take responsibility for anything.

        It’s possible he only sees failures like a collapsed narcissist and feels bad for himself, but never anyone else. That’s consistent with his behavior.

        He can have two modes – attack(when confidence is high and people will act like he is wise and competent) which he used against Miscavige and self pity and blaming others for all his failures which he may have declined into now.

        • The term ‘peak experience’ was coined by one of the founders of humanistic psychology, Abraham Maslow. It referred to a state of ‘self actualisation’. Those who satisfy fundamental needs and achieve self-actualisation are supposed to number Mankind’s greatest achievers.

          In this state people are supposed to experience occasional transcendent satisfaction – the peak experience.

          It’s a very subjective, individualistic and optimistic idea, Unfortunately, it lacks empirical evidence to support it. It also overlooks social influences and the fact that many great people lived in poverty and, despite never satisfying basic needs had a positive impact upon history.

          It’s predictable that this idea would be adopted by Scientology – the temporary and content-free euphoria sometimes experienced after auditing being miss-labeled a ‘peak experience’.

          I tend to see Rathburn less charitably than yourself. I think he really believes that he controls reality and uses this delusion, inculcated by Scientology, to see himself as the hero of every piece.

          He wants his old power back (or failing that, public attention). He has used every means at his disposal to achieve this – and failed. After being dumped by Scientology, the independents were just not compliant enough for him, the ‘Independent Church of Scientology’ seems to have fallen at the first hurdle.

          He’s has kind of founded his own church, of which he is almost the only member, because nobody else is good enough to join.

          I think the decline that has got him into the mess he is in now began with “My Scientology Movie”. He seems to have thought that this would revive his declining media career and establish him as a guru… but ‘the tech’ failed him again, and he came over as deluded and pathetic.

          In this he did indulge in manipulative self-pity (the ‘unemployable’ scene) and anger, when the actors were not impressed by his demonstration of ‘the tech. However, he was as happy as Larry when he was in charge, choosing those actors and directing them to create the reconstruction because he had control.

          His reaction to “My Scientology Movie”, when it came out, reminds me of Miscavige’s to ‘Battlefield Earth’. At first, he thought it was the best film ever made then, when he learned of the reaction to his part in it, blamed everyone else for his own abject failure. Of course, everyone else was to blame for this.

          Even his blog has not brought him the universal authority he craved. He had to be satisfied with a little attention, and had to drum that up with a campaign against the imaginary ASC.

          Other people recover from the loss of identity that you describe (yourself included). I think Rathburn cannot move on from his taste of power and the conviction that he is entitled to more.

          • Mockingbird

            I saw something by Rathbun that gave me the impression the peak experiences he referred to were mystical or spiritual and I simply saw it as his attempt to lump Scientology phenomena with Eastern religion and a hodge podge of practices. To give them ALL validity by their number and history.

            I don’t personally believe in any supernatural phenomena and classify peak experiences as alleged supernatural phenomena that are better explained by psychology and neuroscience.

            I hadn’t thought Rathbun could be as delusional as you described but admit it is possible and certainly plausible given his extensive time deep in Scientology and his behavior.

            He has always struck me as someone extremely impressed with himself.

            His writing on Scientology struck me immediately as Hubbard like. He has in my opinion gross inaccuracies in what should have been simple claims regarding Scientology and also a kind of extremely verbose way of trying to use big words time and again to sound intelligent. Lots of Scientologists learn many words – it didn’t make us actually intelligent people.

            He also tries to craft clever sounding stories and ways to describe his claims that are in my opinion disjointed and not good logic. It’s like a collection of unproven assertions to all support each other but when it comes down to it they ALL rely on his authority alone as proof. Your assessment may be true.

      • Baby

        fabulous comment O B..

        • Thank you – and welcome back. 🙂

    • Baby

      He dodges and weaves too much for this old woman. Changes stories depending on his mood.. He has no loyalty to anyone ( except Mosey and son of course)

      • SarahDB

        It sounds like some paranoia going on as well, sigh

        snuggles and loves up Baby, praying for you love and sending you healing light

        • Baby

          snuggles back.. thanks Dr. ( You my Dr. ..Dr)

  • Todd Tomorrow
    • Newiga

      Her Royal Highness is a sassy lady. <3

    • Taffy Sinclair

      Can you you blame the bitch?

    • She is going to the store… no biggie!

    • Mymy88

      lmao!

  • Dave Reams

    Is it possible that Marty is under extreme duress? Surely David Miscavige must have reams of blackmail material against Marty? (though, why didn’t he use them earlier???)

    • ombrifuge

      There are so many possible explanations.
      Marty may want to try an oust Miscavige.
      Marty may be trying to get back in Miscaviges good books and is being taken for a ride.
      He may have been given some sort of pay off.
      He may have been threatened by something so bad to him that he has had no option but to become compliant.
      Or anything else in between.

      • Dave Reams

        Good points! I can’t help but feel worried for Marty’s wife – it can’t be easy having your life intruded upon year after year by craziness that you never had any part of. The squirrel buster harassment, law suits, spy cameras, law suits, ad absurdo nausium Miscavigefacialcum …

  • Shivani33

    So many different responses in the comments today about Marty Wrathbun, with a variety of guesses about why the fellow has or hasn’t done what he has or hasn’t done. Rick Alan Ross hit home for me, asserting that Marty is simply all about Marty. This makes him very unattractive and a bore. It’s too bad that he inserted himself into a position again where he could harm others. I hope that he stops.

    On another topic, Tom Cruise surfaced in the London Telegraph, schmoozing with Prince Philip and grinning like a maniacal beaver. He has done some very strange things to his face. What, I dunno.

    • Spacer

      Yes, I saw him on the Graham Norton show (London) and he doesn’t look good. I hope he’s redone the purif after any plastic surgery, if that’s what it is. Joke.

  • Newiga

    Watching Chris Shelton’s video on Sea Org recruitment tactics. Boy, what a nut job Hubbard was. Didn’t mama tell him not to smoke those dog pee laced dandelions from the side of the road?

  • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

    A fun short article in the Guardian about Tom Cruise’s recent visit to Buckingham Palace – “Danger in the palace as Tom Cruise eyes up the royal furniture”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/lostinshowbiz/2017/mar/09/danger-in-palace-tom-cruise-prince-philip-furniture?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

    • Phillip has always been a bit wooden.

      • OOkpik

        He must have gone past a word he didn’t fully understand.

    • Vault Digger

      Alternative narrative: “You’re being glib Philip, you don’t know the history of sofas like I do”.

    • eww… he is really snobbing up this time.

    • Baby

      EWWWWWWWWWW he’s playing pocket pool… ugh… OK off to bed.. xoxo My oxy is waiting for me..xo

  • OOkpik
    • omg! I Want…

    • Baby

      Wow beautiful.. thanks Owl..xo

    • Mymy88

      What a beauty!

  • Spacer

    Such a great video, Chris! Whew! Is all I’ve left to say. Mein gott! Hearing these things just makes me so glad to have escaped!

    Also, nice to hear the debunking of some of the conspiracy theories. I bought into a few of them once. I’ve been unravelling myself from them over a period of time and am so relieved to have a concept of the planet again that is more normal and rational now. Your video has helped in this process, so thank you.

    • It really explains why some people are totally quacked. It’s new to me, this 5 hours “intro” video! My God!

  • DexterSka

    During Louis’s movie, you can tell that something was going through Marty’s head.

    • flyonthewall

      Indies reading this article be all like, “Doesn’t look like anything to me.”

  • Jgg2012

    Rathbun, btw, did leave and return before, in the 1990s, so it would not surprise me if he returned again, perhaps in some unofficial capacity.

  • thetastic

    Amazing video, Chris. Thanks for the hard work you put into these, it makes a difference.

  • TheKremlinCandidate

    It’s time to ask Marty Rathbun to reveal Nicole Kidman and Tom Cruise’s auditing gossip. You know, while he’s in the ‘betrayal’ kind of mood.

  • MaxSpaceman

    Dani’s video of just what Dave is vis-a-vis Scn
    https://www.facebook.com/officialomganimals/videos/940212909454461/

  • sickofit

    with all the church defectors, I would say..anyone who still believes in it in anyway…independent or not is still brainwashed to a certain extent…it is a fraud…through and through,,,,whether its tied to the organization or not. The “independents” are making quite a lot of money off of exploiting peoples troubles the same way the church did…dont trust anyone who has any sort of faith in that nonsense on any level. a scam is a scam is a scam..no matter what you call it or who is doing it.

  • Jgg2012

    Rathbun calls the anti-Scientology movement a cult (the “Anti-Scientology Cult” or ASC.) It is not. It is the exact opposite of one. There is no glorified leader: maybe Ortega Is the main leader now (and maybe Rathbun is jealous that his blog did not do as well as this one) but he reports what other people told him, and lets people comment. LRH made stuff up out of thin air and did not allow any dissent. Also, there were prior leaders–Russell Miller, Mark Bunker, Tory Magoo, Graham Berry and Paulette Cooper, who he wrote a book about, among others. LRH did not write about the people he stole ideas from (Freud, Jung), or acknowledge them in any way. There are also other critics outside of this blog, like Chris Shelton. Tony isn’t sending squirrel busters to stop Shelton from being ASC outside of his blog. C’mon.

  • richelieu jr

    I don’t know about any settlement, but I maintain my question that I posed when the case had already been dropped and Marty went after Theroux and Tony:

    “If Marty WERE NOT doing his amends A-E, can anyone tell me what would be different?”

  • Tionia

    Having watched Lea Remini’s show Scientology and the Aftermath which she exposes Scientology and many of their harms I had a pretty positive outlook on Marty Rathbun. He had nothing good to say about Scientology. So what gives? Guess I’ll wait for Season 2 from Remini and see how that plays out. I have no doubts about Scientology being an abusive cult. When I was much younger a got together with a friend from grade school and she & her husband were a very big part of it and she tried to get my and the 4 children I had at the time to join up. We didn’t and I felt it was a big scam. Anytime people want to “help you” but want money from you what they want to help is the pocket book of whomever is in charge and in that case it was Scientology. I didn’t buy into it back then and I don’t now.

  • Alex De Valera

    Marty Rathbun ceased to interest me since he started his 180• turn. He lost all credibility. It was very abusive on his part to drop the legal team after such good results. He is not a squirrel but a scoundrel.