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Marty Rathbun defends Scientology leader David Miscavige as he trashes tell-all memoir ‘Ruthless’

Marty_Rathbun_DP

 
Late last night, Marty Rathbun posted at his blog a lengthy broadside criticizing Ron Miscavige’s memoir, Ruthless: Scientology, My Son David Miscavige, and Me.

The book came out in May and describes how Ron Miscavige introduced his son, church leader David Miscavige, to Scientology in 1969 as they looked for a solution to the 9-year-old’s asthma. The entire family eventually got into Scientology and moved to England to pursue courses and so David could become an auditor. After returning to the US, David got close to Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard and eventually, after Hubbard’s death in 1986, took over the organization. In 1985, Ron, a musician, joined the “Sea Org” and played trumpet and led Scientology’s orchestra, which played frequently at church events around the world. But eventually, as Ron describes in his book, he became disaffected with Scientology under the dictatorial rule of his son, and in March 2012 he and his wife Becky Bigelow escaped from a compound near Hemet, California.

After that escape, Ron learned that his son had assigned private investigators to follow him, and David also instructed his sisters, Denise and Lori, to cut off ties with their father. That’s what motivated him, Ron says, to write his book and reveal what a totalitarian ruler his son had become. His book was a bestseller, and it was featured on a highly watched episode of ABC’s 20/20 program.

But now, Rathbun, who had at one time been the second-highest ranking executive in the church and who has spent years exposing David Miscavige’s shortcomings, has surprisingly come to Dave’s aid, denouncing Ron’s book about his son as full of “hearsay.”

 
RuthlessUSUK

 
In a lengthy blog post, Rathbun produces a withering attack on the book.

— Rathbun says he offered to fact-check the manuscript, but Ron and his publisher, St. Martin’s Press, turned him down.

— Rathbun claims that he wanted to keep Ron from publishing “defamations” against his son that would end up having “deleterious emotional and spiritual effects” on Ron.

— After Ron’s 2012 escape, Rathbun tried to correct stories Ron was hearing about his son, but Ron printed the rumors instead of Rathbun’s facts.

— Rathbun claims he warned Ron against the “moral propriety” of writing a tell-all about his own son.

— Rathbun says he counseled Ron that if he wanted to keep his family intact, he wouldn’t “cavort” with “people who are actively attacking Scientology.”

— Because Ron turned down Rathbun’s offer of help, the book is “chock-full of hearsay, double hearsay, and anonymous hearsay.”

— Rathbun says Ron avoids blaming himself for his own role in producing the person David Miscavige is today. Ron instead blames his deceased first wife and L. Ron Hubbard for making Dave aggressive and a complainer.

— Rathbun criticizes Ron’s citation of the book The Sociopath Next Door to diagnose his son, when it was probably Ron’s neglect that made Dave the way he is.

— In 1998, Rathbun says, he was charged with gathering up people for the St. Petersburg Times to interview to paint a glowing portrait of Dave and his upbringing. In the course of that effort, Ron admitted to him that he had “beat the hell” out of his son and felt guilty for it.

— In 1981, Rathbun witnessed David Miscavige prevent his father from getting into a brawl in New Orleans following the Super Bowl. Ruthless doesn’t give Dave credit for the repeated ways he kept his dad out of trouble, Rathbun says.

— Rathbun says Ron invited the kind of smears that Scientology is throwing at him, including the unrelated criminal investigation that Ron’s son, Ron Jr., went through that Scientology featured on one of its smear websites and that we wrote about recently.

— Rathbun saves for last his agreement with the Church of Scientology’s official position that it’s “provable bullshit” that private investigators Dwayne and Daniel Powell spoke directly to David Miscavige when he told them to do nothing as they watched Ron Miscavige apparently suffering from a heart attack. (He wasn’t, but the Powells didn’t know that.) Rathbun casts doubt on the story, saying that over his more than 20 years in Scientology, “David Miscavige never once spoke to a private investigator.” What Rathbun doesn’t say, however, is that it was the Powells, not Ron Miscavige, who said that David Miscavige spoke to them directly on a telephone, and they said so while being questioned by West Allis, Wisconsin police in taped interviews as part of a criminal investigation.

Early this morning, we swapped messages with Ron’s co-writer, Dan Koon, who said he’d make sure Ron saw Rathbun’s review, and then would let us know if they wanted to make a statement.

Rathbun isn’t the first of Scientology’s critics to raise issues with Ron’s book; we found reviews by John Duignan and our commenter Once Born to be thoughtful pieces. In general, many people anticipated that Ron’s book would be a blockbuster of insider revelations about Scientology, David Miscavige, and perhaps Tom Cruise and Dave’s missing wife, Shelly Miscavige. But it turned out that Ron was often not around his son, and had little access to insider information. He and co-writer Dan Koon also repeatedly praised Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard, and numerous passages in the book try to convince the reader that there’s really something to Scientology’s processes. For that reason, the book was something of a let-down for church critics who were looking for a “killing blow” after Alex Gibney’s documentary Going Clear and Leah Remini’s tell-all, Troublemaker, which both came out in 2015.

So Rathbun isn’t the first to be disappointed with Ruthless. But the context of Rathbun’s review is fascinating for any longtime Scientology watcher, and in particular for the way he repeatedly rails against the “anti-Scientology camp.”

Mark “Marty” Rathbun is a former top Church of Scientology executive who left the organization in 2004, disappeared so thoroughly some thought he was dead, then resurfaced and started his blog in 2009. For the next couple of years, Rathbun’s daily revelations about what it was like to work at the highest levels of the church made his website, as we said at the time, the single biggest challenge to the survival of the church itself. In particular, Rathbun denounced Scientology leader David Miscavige daily, and as a result Rathbun soon became the focus of a campaign of retaliation by the church with a group of private investigators and other operatives that lasted for at least five years.

Rathbun’s decision to go public with his insider information about Miscavige made him a media star. He was the centerpiece of the Tampa Bay Times’ massive 2009 series, “The Truth Rundown,” he was the subject of countless print and video interviews, and he is one of the central figures of three feature-length documentaries (Channel Four’s Scientologists at War, HBO’s Going Clear, and Louis Theroux’s upcoming My Scientology Movie).

It’s been fascinating watching Marty’s website change over time. Initially, he appeared to be the leader of a new movement of “independent Scientologists” who blamed Miscavige for ruining what they believed had been a thriving and more benevolent organization under founder L. Ron Hubbard. But later, Rathbun increasingly found fault with Hubbard himself, and we watched with interest as his comments section became something of a war zone between more and less doctrinaire “indies.” Eventually, on February 3, 2015, Rathbun produced a remarkable post he titled “Scientology Beliefs.” In it, he reduced Scientology to a mix of “pop psychology and hypnotism” that was so ineffective, it couldn’t even measure up to a placebo effect.

Scientologists were purposely kept blinded to that ineffectiveness, Rathbun wrote, by a method that was “carefully designed and administered…so as to lead Scientologists to wholeheartedly accept and live according to these beliefs.”

Six years after Rathbun had emerged as a leader of indies, he was now saying that Scientology — the subject itself, and not just David Miscavige’s mismanagement of it — was a con. And anyone who stood in its way, Scientology wanted dealt with brutally.

“Enemies, including psychs as well as anyone expressing any doubt or reservation about these beliefs, must be destroyed by any means necessary by Scientologists. Such means include lying, suing, cheating, harassing, intimidating, blackmailing, smearing and by physical violence,” Rathbun wrote.

And what has made Rathbun so interesting, especially to journalists, is that for many years, it was Rathbun whose job it was to smear and blackmail and intimidate Scientology’s enemies. In Scientology, he had been the “Inspector General – Ethics” of the Religious Technology Center, Scientology’s nominally controlling entity whose chairman of the board, David Miscavige, is known simply as “C.O.B.” to church members. That position, as Miscavige’s enforcer, put Rathbun in charge of running Scientology’s legendary dirty tricks campaigns against perceived enemies.

So it was something journalists often raised with Rathbun (and that Theroux makes a central focus of his movie): While Rathbun had clearly suffered intense harassment since coming forward as a whistleblower, in particular by a bizarre group of church operatives that called itself the “Squirrel Busters,” it was Rathbun himself who had run similar operations on behalf of the church against earlier whistleblowers.

It’s a question that tends to enrage Rathbun, and it does to great effect in Theroux’s film, as viewers will see as the movie opens in Australia this week, the UK in about a month, and the US in January.

If it’s legitimate to ask about Rathbun’s past as a Scientology enforcer, there’s simply no question that Marty and his wife, Monique, were subjected to one of the most elaborate and intense campaigns of retaliation since the days when Scientology was trying to frame journalist Paulette Cooper for a felony and almost drove her to suicide in the early 1970s. In 2013, Monique, who had never been a member of the Church of Scientology, filed suit against Miscavige and the church, and we watched closely as the harassment lawsuit moved through the courts, resulting in a couple of very favorable rulings.

But this January, Monique suddenly fired her entire legal team and, a few months later, withdrew from the lawsuit.

Naturally, many of our readers wondered if a settlement had been reached between the Rathbuns and the church. But their former attorneys — who would still be entitled to a percentage of any settlement — were unaware that any deal had been reached. And Marty himself, at his blog, said that there was no settlement. Since then, Rathbun has used his blog to attack the notion that dropping the lawsuit wasn’t a sensible idea, and there’s been no more criticism of David Miscavige and the Church of Scientology.

This new piece, with its defenses of David Miscavige and its repeated sneers at the “anti-Scientology” crowd, is another surprising evolution for Marty Rathbun, a figure who continues to fascinate us.

 
UPDATE: Just wanted to point out something that we remembered after finishing the post. Marty’s “evidence” against the Powells’ assertion that they heard from Miscavige on the phone is that, in his experience, Marty never witnessed Miscavige talk to a private investigator directly.

But in the only other case of Scientology PIs coming forward with details about their work, Paul Marrick and Greg Arnold (who were originally hired by Marty) told us personally that they had, in fact, heard directly from Miscavige on the telephone, asking about their daily work following Pat Broeker.

So, two sets of private eyes have come forward in the history of Scientology post-Hubbard, and each of them say they heard directly from Miscavige on the phone with instructions.

Something to keep in mind.

 
——————–

Chris Shelton on ‘Scientology’

 

 
——————–

3D-UnbreakablePosted by Tony Ortega on September 1, 2016 at 07:00

E-mail tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Our book, The Unbreakable Miss Lovely: How the Church of Scientology tried to destroy Paulette Cooper, is on sale at Amazon in paperback and Kindle editions. We’ve posted photographs of Paulette and scenes from her life at a separate location. Reader Sookie put together a complete index. More information about the book, and our 2015 book tour, can also be found at the book’s dedicated page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of L.A. attorney and former church member Vance Woodward
UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists
GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice
SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

Other links: Shelly Miscavige, ten years gone | The Lisa McPherson story told in real time | The Cathriona White stories | The Leah Remini ‘Knowledge Reports’ | Hear audio of a Scientology excommunication | Scientology’s little day care of horrors | Whatever happened to Steve Fishman? | Felony charges for Scientology’s drug rehab scam | Why Scientology digs bomb-proof vaults in the desert | PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer | The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill | Scientology boasts about assistance from Google | The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

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  • Noesis

    This guy used to help sell a hoax “bridge” which has long since been exposed as a too short gangplank.

    Would you buy either one from him?

    • TexasBroad

      Knowing what I know, I wouldn’t buy a bridge from anyone, but I do think this is a really good picture of Marty. In some pictures, he reminds me so much of Bill Murray. I could barely concentrate on what he was saying when I watched his deposition video because the likeness was freaking me out.

      • flyonthewall

        Have you seen this movie? Bill is great in it. A bunch of skits like this with celebs playing themselves

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6EZkIaJcCI

        • TexasBroad

          I have not seen this…will watch it tonight when I get home. Thanks Fly.

  • Rita G

    Marty is jealous and needs someone to pay attention to him. Me, me, me…

    • Ben Franklin

      You know, It is not easy when the former number two guy and the media is no longer paying attention to you or seeking your advice on the subject of Scientology, instead they are going to other people for information about Scientology.

      • Kim O’Brien

        i love how it chaps Marty’s hide that Tony was never in …and is considered an ” expert in scientology ” . That is what totally bugs him and what puts the Oracle over the cliff LOL . Tony was never in …and is the ” go to ” person . Tony’s book was actually published …by a publisher …with an office and business cards and everything .

        • MarcabExpat

          You nailed it, Kim. This is the secret to Marty’s beef with Tony. Not the differing points of view, not the actual facts under investigation… it’s the fact that wog journalist Tony is “Scientology Expert No. 1” and Marty is “that guy who used to do all the interesting maybe-illegal stuff and loves giving tv interviews, but whose reliability and consistency are questionable.”

          When people want indepth information, they call Tony Ortega. And when they want straight talk from an ex-insider, they call Mike Rinder.

  • I think i am going to listen to David Icke now… Makes more sense!

    • 9001

      Don’t do it! He was the goalkeeper for Coventry City before he was “wise”
      Edit:Coventry City not Portsmouth. But still don’t do it!.

      • But he knows all about “MIND CONTROL AND THE NEW WORLD ORDER”

        • gtsix

          Make sure to see Hoddle’s faith healer while you’re at it. Check all the woo boxes.

        • 9001

          Don’t forget the “ROYAL FAMILY/ROTHSCHILD REPTILES” that run the planet.

  • After reading Marty’s article, a couple of things I thought interesting were:
    -Sometimes he spells scientology with a small s and sometimes does Scientology with a large s. Undecided if it’s worthy of capital letters or not?
    -That Eagles game sure made a big impression on everyone! This is about the 146th time I’ve read an anecdote about that game. Marty’s next book?
    -Davey sure has a lot of Rons in his life-his dad, his older brother who he idolized when he was young, and Ron Hubbard!

  • MadisonAgain

    Marty writes “I also complied with her request that I share the book with my readers.” Christine did not ask him to share the book with his readers. She wrote: “If you are interested in receiving a copy of the book to share with your readers, please don’t hesitate to let me know.” That’s different then “Would you share this book with your readers.”

    • Good to notice.
      Very telling.

    • Rita G

      Ooooo, twisty.

  • Ella Raitch

    Just in time for the release of Theroux’s film in Australia, a reminder to secure my ticket today. It will be all the more fascinating now knowing that Marty is now defending David

    • Kim O’Brien

      isn’t Theroux going to be there for Q&A or am i thinking of something else ?

      • Ella Raitch

        After the film is released Louis is doing a talking tour. Film released on the 8th…..Ill be seeing him on stage on the 22nd (ish)

    • You gotta bootleg a copy, we’re dying here.
      Of course I’m kidding.
      But we want a totally detailed review.

  • Jimmy3

    OT and unrelated to anything, it’s football season and we’re setting up a bunker fantasy league. I haven’t set the league yet because we could use more teams. Just for fun, completely free to play. Planning to draft Wednesday evening. Let me know if you’re interested.

    • Ella Raitch

      My son is interested….what do we need to do

      • Jimmy3

        Make an account on ESPN. I haven’t created the league yet because I don’t know how many teams to set it for. Still gauging interest at this point, but we have enough to play. I’ll post more details soon.

    • Ben Franklin

      Will there be a fantasy league for Inside baseball too or just football for now?

      • Jimmy3

        Fantasy baseball is like a part time job. That’s bad enough. I don’t know what fantasy inside baseball is like, but it has to be hell.

    • Sherbet

      I’m interested in a Fantasy Cult League, and I choose Marty as my running back.

      • Jimmy3

        When he doesn’t fumble, he runs the ball backwards into the wrong end zone. Are you sure that’s your choice?

        • Sherbet

          I don’t even know if it’s HIS choice.

      • Kestrel

        l see what you did there.

      • Commodore H. McCringleberry

        Really? I heard he’s been known to fumble the ball just before he goes over the goal line. . .

    • flyonthewall

      I don’t know football but I could probably be a cheerleader if you need one. I am very peppy. Let me know

    • Vaquera

      Me

    • TexasBroad

      J.J.Watt is my go-to fantasy football player, but I’m not sure we’re talking about the same thing.

      • Vaquera

        Having moved from Texas to New England, I’ve developed a Watt/Gronk football fantasy…I mean fantasy football team. 🙂

    • Commodore H. McCringleberry

      I’m in like Flynn.

  • Ninara Poll

    So does this mean Marty either wants back in to the CoS in an executive position, or he’s positioning himself to take over once Miscavige is removed/dies?

    • Ben Franklin

      There is no way he can go back to CoS and still save face, as he has already burnt that bridge. Unless Marty comes out and says he was lying all along, or that we all are just stuck in a dream, I don’t see it happening.

      • edge

        Those Scientologists have long memories…several lifetimes they’ll tell you.

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    Eeeeew! What a dump!
    Someone has posted dozens of photos: http://boards.4chan.org/hr/thread/2737015

    “I visited the Narconon facility in Yarramalong recently while I was in Australia. I’m ex OSA, so I used my skills to stake the place out. Well there were a few caretakers, so I waited until they were away for a few hours and had me a little look.

    These are the photos I took. Well, I think the decay shows up pretty good, but some of these decks were far more dangerous than they look. I was treading where there were nails because most of the decks wouldn’t take my weight. A lot of the work on the place is real shonky, none of the floors are really flat, and there is so much rot. They’ve really never maintained it.”
    (refresh)

    • flyonthewall

      they have a superslide at Narconon!!??

      • Frodis73

        Yeah, wtf??

  • Edward Whalley

    He sounds scared. Like I was supposed to be when I talked about another cult here. I wish only the best for him.

  • Lousy Ratatouille

    Robinson Crusoe is the only one who could have everything done by Friday.
    Imagine:
    Disconnection from all scientologists and then disconnection from all “anti-scientologists” and in the end you may be trying to explain God to Friday:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiLkVb2c-N8

  • chukicita

    OT: Flag weather update. 3 to 6 foot waves at CW beach. All the sand they trucked in a few years ago to replenish the beach is gone. The worst hasn’t hit us yet but there are already trees fallen onto houses and flooded streets in our area. Just heard that there is a tornado happening a few miles away.

    • gtsix

      Be safe.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Oh my, take care of yourself!

    • daisy

      OH Chucky I am sorry . Take good care and shoo the VMs

    • Observer

      Yikes! Be careful!

    • chukicita

      On the good side, I didn’t have to go to the office today. And may not tomorrow, either. And someone’s been making this wonderful-smelling stew and there is plenty of wine.

      • Qbird

        hang tough, this too will pass. my thoughts with you, chukicita.

      • TexasBroad

        You’re not in mandatory evac? I’ve had some fun and rowdy waiting-for-the-hurricane parties, but hate the harrowing waiting-through-the-hurricane part. Be safe and careful. We’ll be anxious to hear how you are after so don’t make us worry as soon as you can let us know.

        • chukicita

          Not for a Cat 1, not where I live. We are expecting 2 to 6 feet of storm surge, but are not in the path of the worst of the winds. They will hit our state capital around midnight, and hopefully sweep away much of the current adminstration. I have no wish to relive my previous experiences with hurricanes.

          • TexasBroad

            Storm surges are no fun either. Enjoy your wine and stew, and be safe.

          • MarcabExpat

            Me neither, girl. What part of town are you in? We’re near USF and they were closed all day along with everything else, because it floods here so easily.

            • chukicita

              Close to SemHi, not far from the river. Stay dry!

      • Sunny

        Be safe out there! My dad lives in New Port Richey… I think its pretty close to Flag. I hope everyone stays safe overnight. Except a few empty buildings…. they can go… you know which ones I mean! ;p

    • Commodore H. McCringleberry

      Good luck. Hopefully, when this is over, there’ll be a big hole in Downtown Clearwater where a certain organization once had a bunch of buildings and the only property damage you suffer is the crater where the big huge safe full of cash that may or may not have been in one of those buildings lands in your yard. . .

      • chukicita

        I like how you think.

    • Horrible, hope you are okay! Keep yourself sheltered.

  • Kim O’Brien

    My daughter has her first paper due for high school . I am hoping that Marty is available to proof read it for her …maybe do some ” fact checking ” .

    • daisy

      Kim you are absolutely hilarious today.

      • Kim O’Brien

        the paper is about The Catechism . Should keep him busy for a while 😉

    • edge

      He’ll do some “preparing the ground” on it and make the teacher “rue the day” she even thinks of giving it a bad mark.

  • Hana Eltringham Whitfield

    Shame on you, Marty Rathbun. Shame on you. No wonder you refused to talk to my husband, Jerry and me after you ‘left’ scientology. No wonder you stopped Monique from talking with me. No wonder you still clearly side scientology, the same church you recently decried only to turn tail and run back to it. You have done so much wrong to so many people over the years that it cannot be counted. Those people are scattered around the world and I have heard their stories over the years, all of them wondering at one point whether you might come clean and help answer their questions. You ordered and ran some really nasty black ops against Jerry and me over the years including trying to set me up in South Africa as being my father’s murderer, lying to the FBI about us, lying about us to the police in untold countries, lying about us to the hundreds of families we worked with and whose loved ones we managed to exit from scientology, suing us for requesting police assistance with a stalker, and so much more. No wonder you have once again run away. You are utterly unable to confront what you have done. I hope some day you can.

    • chukicita

      Thank you, Hana, for saying this out loud. I hope Marty listens to you with an open heart.

      • SciWatcher

        ” I hope Marty listens to you with an open heart”

        *chortle*

      • Mockingbird

        Highly unlikely.

    • InClearwater

      Thank you, Hana. I wish I could upvote your post 2,000 times.

      • Hana Eltringham Whitfield

        Let’s just keep talking about it …

    • Noesis

      There will inevitably be an apoplectic and vainglorious response from Marty to all of these comments, including the brilliant one you just posted.

      If Marty would just come down here to this planet and talk with us “earth people” he might find some solace…but apparently he’s still wearing his Boots In The Sky.

    • Commodore H. McCringleberry

      Thanks for that, Mrs. E W. Marty has been trading on the fact that his name is on a very short list of people who have inhabited the very highest levels. I think to some degree, he uses that fact as psychological armor to deflect any criticism- holding himself in better regards based on how high he rose in comparison to those who aren’t inclined to agree with him. You’re up there just as high as he ever was, and in relation to the one person bigger in that world than DM.

      He likes to be magnanimous when he’s praised and lauded at the level he feels is his due, then turns vicious when the attention turned his way is in the least bit critical. Reading your comment, I remember how he’s treated Gerry Armstrong as well- even after he supposedly broke with the Church. I’m not sure he has the courage to ask forgiveness for the rotten things he’s done on a case by case basis, to truly try to repair some of the damage. He’d have to admit personal fault and answer for himself without blaming someone else for his actions, which I’m pretty sure he’s never done. Thanks for posting! Hope everything is well for you and yours.

      • It’s like the Enemies of Scientology list is still burned-in: David Mayo, Gerry Armstrong, etc. Anyone who was an enemy while he was in is still an enemy to him, but anyone who left after he did is cool.

        That’s just an impression. There are probably exceptions to that.

      • richelieu jr

        I am very sorry to have been proved right on this issue.

        My position has always been that jus the cause you were high up in an evil organization doesn’t mean you should be kowtowed to in the real world.

      • Hana Eltringham Whitfield

        You’re welcome Commodore. Your points are spot on. We are fine; I hope the same for you and yours.

      • Carlazi

        Dont forget that Mike Rinder is as guilty as Marty for the Jerry Armstrong stuff. Both of them could make 1 guys life so much better if they admitted their actions, even if they thought and perhaps still do think it was justified.

        • Commodore H. McCringleberry

          I’ve heard something like that. I’m not doubting you at all, but the last thing I can clearly recall from that saga is Gerry making a list of specific things that he needed from Marty to clear up his situation with the courts. Marty replied with a pretty snide and insulting reply to him. I’m aware of Mike making a statement on video that Gerry might be a bit less than sane and Gerry reacting strongly to that, calling it an example of continued “Fair Gaming”, which I thought was just Mike giving his opinion. Is there somewhere that I can read up on the current state of affairs with that situation?

          • Carlazi

            I dont think Gerry has said much more since the Annoymous conferences (Flag Down i think) that were held. There are videos of Gerry’s talks and some side interviews on youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFA4cJ6G8qu1S4xU2pVJpLg also Gerry’s youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-3_wQP_vjRDVb_nYDK-zew is a useful place through he does suffer from the LRH disease of waffle (Marty also suffers from it).
            I think Gerry is a little eccentric and is quite blunt which can come across as a little unhinged but my interpretation is that he has been so mentally upset by the PI’s and other tactics that his passion overwhelms him.
            For Mikes part i remember he basically said that Gerry was a delusional and paranoid, very much like he said about John Sweeney all those years ago, this was >5 years after leaving Co$. I really cannot understand why neither of them will not admit they did something wrong and are now sorry for any hurt caused to Gerry’s wife, family and himself. I am quite sure Gerry is still wanted by US authorities so he wont be rushing to a court suing either of them.

    • Lynette Byrnes

      I’ve said it before…you are so lovely, Hana. Saw Going Clear about 3 times, but FINALLY reading the book…and the full details of your experience. WOW is pretty much all I can say right now. You are inspiring!

      What is Rathbun really up to?

      • Interested2

        Please…. What book by Hannah ?…

        • I think she is speaking of the Going Clear book by Lawrence Wright.

          • Interested2

            Thanks. Read it, great read, great film.

        • Lynette Byrnes

          I’m sorry, I mean Going Clear (the book).

          • Interested2

            Thanks. Read it. It was brilliant

    • Tom Klemesrud

      Hana, my feeling is he never left. To me, it looks like his proxy suit was a attempt to create case law favorable for Scientology. When that failed, it was mysteriously dropped. Scientology has sued its own covert operatives at least one prior time to set legal case law precedents in their favor.

      • richelieu jr

        Hard to tell… He does em to have a sniff of the “Nibs” on him though, doesn’t he?

      • Hana Eltringham Whitfield

        Hi Tom, you may well be right! Very interesting … let’s keep watching

    • Baby

      Hana Whitfield. You are a voice I would listen to and believe without question. I have so much respect for you.

      Thank you for your strength and sharing so openly with the us. Baby

      • Lynette Byrnes

        Hiya Baby! Haven’t posted since the “Nancy Cart-WRONG” saga. But I had to open my big mouth today.

        • Baby

          LYNNNNNNNNNNNette.. Good Lord I was ready to send the Red Cross out searching for you! So glad to see you.. Oh OPEN your big mouth anytime.. I love it.. xoxoxo love baby f5

          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1d6106ed6e75bf3aed1cc1cb1499e280fb89b008a0e9d7d9b3ffe64165a52da7.jpg

          • Lynette Byrnes

            Smoochie, woochie, smoochie, blah, kiss, mwahhhhh! MISSED YOU! God, I almost feel like some kind of stranger here. Good thing I found my BABY!

            • Lynette Byrnes

              Are you watching this Holy Hell doc on CNN? F-in A! Banana-Hammock Cult! Fun, good stuff!

            • Baby

              Never a stranger on the Bunker Lyn.. Never! We are all Strange.. ha

            • Jenyfurrrrr

              ROFL – so JUST after your “We are all Strange…” comment is a very enthusiastic discussion on the documentary featuring the Banana Hammock cult… Which it seems everyone but me watched today!

            • Baby

              OMG.. what a strange cult.. This guy literally walked around with his stupid Banana Hammock with White Tennis shoes and socks.

              And he looked like a Gym Rat who had horrible Plastic Surgery..
              GAG..The one in the yellow.. puke..

              https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/eb9e5344b9409faef308c90fbc8f4c26afcff7559d904219c381f0208d9508bb.jpg

            • Jenyfurrrrr

              They all look pretty creepy… And not just due to the obnoxious swimwear! Lol

            • Jenyfurrrrr

              Lol Lynette – I so know what you mean! Baby is the little spitfire rock for so many of us here! Which means you must be good-people too! So I’m glad you’re back!

            • Lynette Byrnes

              Well to my new Darlin, Jennyfurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr…

              Smoochie, woochie, yumyummms, oochie koochies, smoochies to you too! I love these gals here!!!!!

            • Jenyfurrrrr

              Aw me too! And right back atcha… Xoxo we’ve got to get you and the other great ladies to all come out to HowdyCon next year so we can all meet out in person. Besides, Baby was the life of the party at the very first one, everyone kept saying!

            • Lynette Byrnes

              I want to come next year!

              Uh oh…Baby might have some competition!??? (heehee)

            • Jenyfurrrrr

              lol for sure and heck is just means we’ve got a bigger drinking circle now! 😘

            • Lynette Byrnes

              Can’t wait!
              I can already visualize the fun with “Jenyfurrrrr,” “Baby” and “me”…
              (guys end up passed out on floor). Hahahaha!!!

            • Jenyfurrrrr

              Yay it’s officially on like Donkey Kong he he (showing my age there). I seriously can’t wait – especially after hearing all the fun people had this year! So glad to meet ya on here!

            • Lynette Byrnes

              Hey, I’m a first-gen Space Invaders (pardon the $ci-pun), PacMan & Frogger player. I even knew the PacMan “pattern” through each round. (Yes, I was that much of an 80’s teen, most likely during prime mullet/bad perm phase.) So, my age is showing too. In fact, another friggin bday for me next week – they just keep a-comin’! Ackkk!

              GREAT “meeting” you too!

            • Jenyfurrrrr

              That just made me like you even more! Lol oh the pics I have of my huge 80’s & 90’s hair!
              Happy Birthday Lovely – just think fine wine, like fine wine!

            • Jenyfurrrrr

              This!!! Can’t wait!

          • Lynette Byrnes

            Nice pic choice, by the way. Hahahahaha! I JUST LOVEST MY BABY!

            • Baby

              Isn’t that adorable.. Awwwwwwwww Then you need to come around more Lyn.. xo

    • Jenyfurrrrr

      What Baby said below… Seconded! You were one of the first stories I read in depth about and came away with SO much respect for how you persevered. Not only that, but you’ve put yourself out there for SO many that left. For a long time I’ve been very confused by all that’s gone on but the people here weren’t attacking eachother and we’re open for differing viewpoints, so I felt actions spoke louder than the many convoluted words (plus, I read reporting here, not attacks like were posted elsewhere!). Hearing your viewpoint solidifies what has been my gut feeling watching all of this. Thank you for being willing to say something and for being so direct! My thoughts and prayers are always with you and yours!

    • Tory Christman

      Marty…wtf? Was all you have said exposing the serious
      Abuses of David Miscavige just made up? We
      *know* the facts…and far from just you or Ron.

      You’re going to now try to “dead agent” (put down
      As false) ALL of our experiences? Every ex-$cientologist
      …..suddenly we all banned together? Come on, man!
      Mosey? WTF? I’ve always said without *you* Mosey….Marty
      Would have been screwed. So they even got to you??

      What about the 2006 “Program” you posted
      On your blog, called: “For Your Eyes Only”. It
      Describes OSA’s (or “dave’s”) goal:
      “To muzzle Tory, completely” (one more
      EPIC FAIL). You even let me write the facts behind
      All the lies.
      WHAT HAPPENED TO ~THAT~ MARTY?
      PLEASE WAKE THE FUCK UP!!
      There is no “settling” with $cientology:
      PERIOD. My guess is they scared you with your son’s life.
      Please re-consider who you are dealing with.
      If you are laughing at this, listen as I whisper:
      You have sold out your son, your wife
      And yourself, TOTALLY. IT’S NOT TOO LATE TO
      TURN THIS TITANIC (FOR U & YOUR FAMILY)
      AROUND. DO IT!!

      • Hana Eltringham Whitfield

        Exactly, Tory! Hugs to you…

        • Lurkness

          Hugs to you both and THANK YOU for all that you do! You are both amazing heroes.

    • Carlazi

      Marty could do a lot of good if he camme clean about the stuff he did. Yes there could be penalties (law) but the good he could do to people by telling the whole truth would potentially do so much good it should be worth the personal risk for Marty. Such a shame that both Mike Rinder and he dont come clean on the bad stuff in public with full apologies. I am sure most people would accept this and not want to pursue it further e.g. court cases for damages etc.

    • FredEX2

      Yes, shame on you Marty Rathbun. How much did you get in exchange for your soul…and for all the lives you devastated and destroyed (for the sake of an evil vicious cult)…including destroying mine? Was it worth it? I regret ever believing you were sorry and we’re trying to redeem yourself. Why don’t you go live in Cabo with your best buddy Eugene Ingram in the land of ‘happy endings’ where the corruption and beer flows freely and talk is cheap.

      • richelieu jr

        Oh yes! I call this one “The Inhuman Cemtipede”!

    • Mockingbird

      Your information helps me to understand who Marty Rathbun really is. His guru persona has convinced some people that he is a philosopher trying to find truth, much like the facade Hubbard himself used.

      I don’t have any hesitation now in saying I won’t associate with or support him in any way. I thank you for speaking out. Lots of people don’t know who did what in Scientology and the crimes of Hubbard, Miscavige and others are still relevant.

      • Ann B Watson

        Thank you for your comment concerning crimes still being relevant regarding Scientology.I bought Marty’s book when it came out but for some reason did not feel comfortable going on his blog.So I never went there.❤️

        • Mockingbird

          You’re welcome. I think it’s important to acknowledge the harm Scientology does as a practice and group and our own individual contributions to that. The books and meters didn’t do everything by themselves. Real people got hurt by other real people.

          I certainly regret my part.

        • Jenyfurrrrr

          Ann every post I’ve ever read from you at Mike Rinder’s blog is so kind, relating and welcoming at the other blog people are very much the opposite, so I felt as you did about commenting there. But it’s people like you that I respect. Those who have lived through it, remained strong, positive and have the courage to put you stories out there to help and encourage. So thoughts from those of you who’ve experienced these people are ones to which I give weight.

          • Ann B Watson

            Thank you so much.Your words mean the world to me.Blogging was very new to me although I have written all my life.I literally crashed into Mike’s Blog frightened out of my head to blog for some reason.So I wrote him privately for awhile until he rightly threw me onto his blog.Yes I lived through hell and am still riding the wave with two cancers very strongly connected to SO.I realized that if I could tell what happened to me the good the bad and the ugly it might help someone else.Passing it on.So I started out there.Yes I have seen the other side of bloggers and Ron’s World,but it is angels like you that keep me strong.❤️💞💖

            • Jenyfurrrrr

              Aw thanks Ann. You’ve been in my prayers since I read about your cancers – do keep us posted! You’re certainly one hell of a strong lady!

            • Ann B Watson

              Thank you angel,Love Laughter and Light keep me here.I have meant to comment on Tony’s just have to carve out a time to read all here.So many wonderful comments and amazing posters.Tony,thank you.❤️❤️

            • Jenyfurrrrr

              Glad you’re here! Xoxo

            • Ann B Watson

              💋❤️

    • Ann B Watson

      Thank you for your post.Black ops are very serious and nasty traps.❤️

  • A review by Marty of another book by an ex on Scientology, for contrast:

    Counterfeit Dreams by Jefferson Hawkins September 5, 2010, Marty Rathbun, Moving On Up a Little Higher

    • chukicita

      It’s like a completely different person.

  • itsIBBy

    I’ve been so off the radar, I didnt even know that the Rathbuns had seemingly dropped the suit. Thats odd behavior considering how aggressive the character assassination of them was by the Scientologists (refuse to call them a church)

    Wasnt Marty an “indie”? Delivering Scientology mumbo jumbo outside of the boundaries of the group?

    Holy shit… I need to do some serious catching up in the Bunker

    • Not seemingly, Monique dropped the lawsuit only after publicly trashing and terminating her legal team.

      • itsIBBy

        I’ve been away awhile! Had no idea any of this had even happened

        • It was big news. Shortly after Rathbun said there was “no settlement” he started posting attacks on Tony and encouraging others to do it as well.

        • Sibs

          You missed all the drama! Well… clearly not all. I dunno where you would begin to catch up, maybe with the part when Monique dumped her legal team. Those filings were shocking at the time, especially since Ray and the rest were doing so well.

    • Vaquera
  • gtsix

    So I just have to be snarky: I can’t wait to read Alanzo’s blog post about this mess.

  • Techie

    Well, Marty got the Bunker stirred up today. How is this for a random theory? Right after the suit was withdrawn I thought I read somewhere that Marty said there was no settlement, he was just withdrawing the suit because the purpose for the suit was fulfilled. Long and hard have I contemplated this, possibly I have a conceivable answer: Monique started the suit because of the harassment. Not to punish Scientology, not to expose their crimes, just to get them and their surveillance cameras out of her face. Such is her right. We heard early on that Marty was teaching Monique how to do Indy Scientology. And they seem to have had a cottage practice doing sessions for escaped members. This is the real impetus behind the “Squirrel Busters”, Marty was at that time a bona fide squirrel doing “Scientology” without RTC approval. Of course OSA also hated Marty because he was mouthing off about them but they won’t necessarily mount a full scale attack with PIs and cameras on everybody who mouths off like they used to. Somewhere along the line Marty seems to have woken up about the “tech”. This is what normally happens, someone will escape Scientology but still be a true believer for a short or long time. They may dabble in Indieville or just drop out. Or they may try to get back in good standing, which is where the sometime trolls come from – folks who are trying to “deliver an effective blow to the enemies of Scientology” (us). Sometimes you meet a former SO member who smiles and acts like an exe but is really working for OSA to get back in. It takes a long time and some hard study with the Jon Atack and Russell Miller books to really break the stranglehold of the Scientology mindset. If Marty is really breaking free, he could have either made a deal with Dave or simply made it obvious that he was no longer doing the squirrel cottage industry. At that point the PIS pack up there camo kits and leave, the Rathbuns are no longer in their cross hairs, and Marty drops the suit. No monetary settlement that the lawyers could sue for but the situation is resolved. Just a theory and I have no inside knowledge but it could make sense.

    • grundoon

      Could be. But David Miscavige has kept up perpetual surveillance of many people who had completely left Scientology behind and had no thought of squirreling or speaking out. Like Pat Broeker, Janis and Paul Grady, Mark Fisher, Ron Miscavige Sr. I’d think at best he would tell the PIs to keep their heads down, stay out of Monique’s sight, and snoop quietly.

  • edge

    Remember peeps, we’re a cult. A very snarky, inimical, ruinous, trans-atlantic, anti-scientology CULT.

    • Kestrel

      Trans-Pacific, too.

      • gtsix

        Spanning all 147 continents as well.

  • I think there is little question at this point about what has happened with the Rathbun vs. Scientology lawsuit. Clearly Rathbun is championing for Miscavige in this latest post. I hope Monique’s former legal team doesn’t give up the search for that settlement, because clearly it exists. I can’t imagine Marty would let Miscavige use his website to spread propaganda without some kind of payment. The comments section is even more disturbing. There are people still hanging on to this lunatic’s words as if he is the second coming of Hubbard.

    Unless he’s just doing this for teh lulz. I can’t imagine Marty has much in the way of a sense of humor though.

    • “…that settlement, because clearly it exists.”
      I thought he had to be crazy, or he secretly settled.
      Now I realize they aren’t mutually exclusive.

      • He would have to be crazy if he took a settlement and is trying to screw his lawyers out of it.

  • Kim O’Brien

    Is Marty just sitting in a dark room …reading all of these comments ….touching himself ?

    i have a bad feeling

    • I doubt Marty even looks at his own website these days, now that OSA is running it.

      • Kim O’Brien

        i mean this one .

        eeeewwwww. I feel soiled

        • I can’t remember if you’re a GoT fan but Marty Rathbun is Littlefinger–following whomever he perceives to be the center of power. Miscavige is Cersi.

          http://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/bettymag/Cersei-Littlefinger.jpg

          • Mockingbird

            Damn. Miscavige never looked so good.

            • Don’t get excited it was a metaphor. XD

            • Mockingbird

              Damn.

          • Vaquera

            ^^^

          • Jenyfurrrrr

            Excellent analogies!!! And I am a fan (since the books) and don’t want to think of either when I have my GoT time, thank you! 😋

      • flyonthewall

        OSA isn’t running his website. Marty does crazy just fine all by himself thank you very much

        • I’m sure he does but come on now. He’s quoting “provable bullshit”? Nah. I don’t think he’s writing these posts anymore.

          • flyonthewall

            i am interested in your theories and would like to subscribe to your newsletter

            • I don’t do subscriptions. That’s exactly what the government wants.

      • Mockingbird

        Totally burned.

    • Commodore H. McCringleberry

      He’s “self sophisticating”. He does it on the blog with his poor thesaurus and in private with. . . ewww.

      • Kim O’Brien

        “self sophisticating”

        OMG …you are killin me …i am DYING

      • MarcabExpat

        Well, they do say the e-meter is the last thing they let go of.

        (I will see myself out and go straight to ethics now.)

        • Commodore H. McCringleberry

          Rimshot!!

  • chukicita

    Most of Pinellas county is without power, I just heard them say on Bay News 9.

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      Stay safe honey. Holler if you need anything. ❤️

      • chukicita

        Thanks. We’re all good here. Everyone is home and safe and we still have power for the mo. Mientras dure.

      • MarcabExpat

        I just sauteed up a big batch of andouille sausages and red peppers, to make sure we’d have lots to eat if we suddenly couldn’t cook anymore! Don’t think it’s going to happen, though. Tampa’s really lucky so far.

        Wow, WFTS says Marshall St wastewater treatment plant has failed, raw sewage pouring into Clearwater streets, gushing up through flooded-out manholes.

        Like they don’t have enough shit to deal with already.

        • chukicita

          Who pulled that in?

          • MarcabExpat

            *sporfle* whoever designed Super Power with a basement.

    • Vaquera

      My friend in Pinellas Park still has power.

      • chukicita

        Tell them to hold on to it!

    • InClearwater

      We blinked. (Power off/back on quickly.)

    • MarcabExpat

      Meanwhile, here in Hillsborough county, it’s quieter than I would have thought possible during tropical storm conditions.

      Every time hurricane season gets underway, I wonder what Flag would be like if The Big One hit.

      • chukicita

        Only a matter of time. The Ft H and Super Power are on the highest ground around. But the wind…

    • pkatz

      Dunedin checking in. 9pm and no loss of power.

      • chukicita

        cool! I think the Bay News 9 guys are a little punchy. But my friends in SPB, TI, Mad Beach and PAG were down.

        • pkatz

          All Beach towns open to a sou’westerly gale.

  • Sarcasmo

    So many interesting and well thought out comments today.

  • aegerprimo

    I’ve been an Ex-Scientologist for a long time now. I stepped away from Scientology around 1995, but for years and years thought that the Church was clearing the planet and… well making the world a better place. It was not until a research project I did while in nursing school – each student had to choose how different cultures or religious beliefs handled surgical intervention, ’round 2011. My instructor said we could choose any as our topic but NOT Scientology. I KNEW Scientologists don’t seek medical help, do not take medicines, do not get surgery, etc.

    I’ve told this story here at the Bunker many times. Right now I want to be brief in order to bring up another point.

    My instructor’s comment led me to find a book in my college library by Hugh Urban, which led me to look up on the Internet what was going on with Scientology. His book included many websites that got me started. I discovered Operation Clambake, Ex-Scientologist Message Board…

    The things being said at Marty’s Blog – Moving On Up A Little Higher, and here at Tony Ortega’s Underground Bunker, made me alarmed when I first started reading. It was the member comments that made me most alarmed. I didn’t get them, and the comments seemed so whack-a-doodle. Yet, I kept reading, and reading.

    I eventually realized Tony backs his Blog posts with documents, interviews and contributed writings from experts, references, cross references, etc. There is a difference between an educated professional journalist and a wacky interesting guy with a following who can spin words.

    I just wonder, if there are people like me as mentioned above, people who have been away from Scientology for a long time who suddenly start reading all the stuff on the Internet about the Church of Scientology and come across the Underground Bunker, and also find Marty’s Blog… and just get confused.

    HOLLA! If you are out there… please keep reading. Lurk and read.

  • Sarcasmo

    I’ve seen it mentioned by others that Marty’s circle is closing and that he seems to have been abandoned by former allies, but I wonder what people like Mike Rinder, Karen de la Carriere, et. al. really think about this return to DM shift. It looks as if they no longer post on Marty’s blog and as far as I know they haven’t commented on Marty or his situation.

    • MarcabExpat

      I’d LOVE to see Mike post a review of Marty’s review. Can’t see it happening, though. The closest you usually get to seeing which way the wind blows with him in that regard, is what he does or doesn’t include in his Links sections.

    • Jenyfurrrrr

      Karen posted on one of the ESMB threads a while back. Nothing negative directly about Marty (staying out of the fray and line of fire) but she has stated in the past that he helped her in a tight situation (I believe regarding her son) while he was still in and was an incredible support when she lost Alexander. I think she’s just keeping it classy and staying focused on her agenda of exposing the abuses.

  • flyonthewall

    Today’s article was like a shot of pure meth right into the bunker’s commenting mainline! WHAT A RUSH!! We’re going to have such a hang over tomorrow

    • Jimmy3

      ILL STAB YOU WITH A SPORK YOU DUN GIMME BACK MY TINFOIL DARLENE

      • flyonthewall

        IDONTKNOWYOUTHATSMYPURSE!!!

    • daisy

      I rarely have something worthwhile to post about scientology as I am still very newborn at sci-watching . The opinions , the detail and the discection of his every word and nuance has been a thing of beauty to watch. Marty is a case study in brain turmoil or maybe the direct opposite. I have yet to decide. He proves that letting scientologists be scientologists is the best advertisement for our little cult. His blog is a blatantly ego driven , self-aggrandizing, hot mess to everyone but an active scientologist. How is it possible that these freaks get power in this day and age. Oh yeah they don’t read Marty*s blog or are confused about the word * fact.*

      • edge

        It’s clear that he’s the best blogger he knows. And writer. And Sci-watcher. And Scientologist. And lawyer. Legal fees? Pshhaww.

      • Lynette Byrnes

        Man, you said that so well. I’m a “newborn” too! (If a year and a half of being consumed with it is what you mean.) But, it certainly is a thing of beauty. My jury’s still out on Rathbun too, I still think his story is fascinating. And obviously, so does our Dear Mr. Ortega.

      • Jenyfurrrrr

        The thing that’s so odd about the current state is I remember a time when I’d come here, then go check Marty’s then Mike’s. Then it got odd so I checked it out periodically but it stopped being interesting when it turned into the pre-I-hate-all-things-Bunker-related iteration, then his Rue period started. It’s sad because he was a staple and interesting to read for a long time, then he seemingly alienated many people around him (even before the case ended).

  • Bhob

    I know I may get flak for this but as a someone who’s been following the whole Scientology thing for a few years now, it seems like some people can just give their insight and walk away while others make it a lifestyle. I think some people might be better to let things go… there’s nothing wrong with that.

    • I wish I could figure out how to put food on the table with my story, but for now I work a 9-5 and poke my uninvited head into conversations where I think I can offer some helpful, if unsolicited insight.

      • Vaquera

        What’s your skinny on the NYC job?

        • I’m not gonna do it after all. Just going to look for other jobs locally and maybe in Vegas.

          • Vaquera

            As you wish, my dear. I was sorta pumped that you might be close-ish and I could beetle down, hit up TKTS and catch a Broadway matinee with you. ;(

            • It’s tempting to be sure, and there is still a side of me nagging to move out there.

      • aegerprimo

        I think your helpful unsolicited insight is priceless.
        Thank you Derek. You are one of a kind. ♥

    • gtsix

      Have some flak. Want more… you look like you want more. Have some more flak. All good? Good. I like to be helpful.

      • Bhob

        You can never have enough flak.

        • gtsix

          Gotta stay regular.

    • flyonthewall

      ….

  • Commodore H. McCringleberry

    So, a fight between Eagles fans and Raiders fans after a game leads to “hard time in the big house”? If football related violence among those two fan bases in particular amounted to anything remotely felonious, our already overcrowded prisons would be in some deep shit. . .

    • I’m with you. Hard time in the big house? I think it would have been more like walking away with a bloody nose.

      • Commodore H. McCringleberry

        For real, those two teams in particular. There has never been a top 5 or top 10 list of worst sports fans that didn’t include at least one if not both of those two. Next time they play each other, they ought to have Free Tomahawk or Bayonet Night for the first 85,000 fans. An hour after kickoff, the Air Force could fly over and deal with the debris. . .

        • From personal experience living here in LA: Raiders fans are the worst. I would never go to a Raiders game here in LA, Santa Clara, Oakland or San Diego. They are saying the team might move to Vegas (Lord help us all if they do because the 15 will never be the same again).

          Do you remember a couple years back when they canceled the Battle of the Bay because (I think) someone got stabbed in the Niners stadium?

          • Jimmy3

            Wait… A couple years back? I thought that happened every week.

            • No the Niners and the Raiders used to play each other once a year during Preseason. They cancelled the recurring game after someone got stabbed in the stadium.

            • Jimmy3

              I remember that. I was kidding. But there’s always fights and shit. Now there’s another in-state team full of potential fans to bloody.

            • Commodore H. McCringleberry

              Haha. The Rams. There are longtime Sea Org members that are less beaten down inside than those fans. I’m guessing the only thing worse would be rooting for the Browns. Oh, wait. . .

          • Commodore H. McCringleberry

            Raider Nation is reminiscent of the Mad Max universe for a reason. I remember the stabbing and only being surprised that it didn’t happen more often. From growing up in DC, I can vouch for the Eagles fans being the worst that back East has to offer. Its one of the few examples I can think of when the truth is actually much worse than the myth: The old joke used to be that there is a jail in the Eagles stadium. Actually, all NFL stadiums have some sort of detention facility (though the Eagles were the first). The Philly stadium, however, has a courtroom complete with bail bondsmen and a magistrate so you can cop to your assault charge and not miss the 4th quarter!

  • edge

    Now that he’s a “fact-checker”, and book critic about all things Scientology why doesn’t someone send him a copy of Watergate: The Hoax by Ashton Gray, a book that says the Watergate break-in was a hoax meant to cover up the murder of “the real” L Ron Hubbard and theft of “the real” OT levels. That should be right up his alley. Books like that make Scientologists feel more self-important and victimized, simultaneously.

    • Harpoona Frittata

      WHAT!!? You mean that we had to suffer through more than a decade of a “fake” Elron at the helm of the $cn Ship o’ Fools?

      Well, that explains everything! If only he’d lived, the entire planet, and much of this sector of the universe, would be clear by now!

      You just can’t imagine how this shatters my world and shakes my stable data to their core.

      I’m just glad that we have TrumPutin to put things right again! Obviously, ‘murica began to become not great when Elron’s doppelganger took over.

      • Lynette Byrnes

        Hahahaha! Nicely put.
        And remember…Trump + Pence = TENSE!

  • Mockingbird

    So I reread the entire blog post and have a couple opinions. Marty Rathbun didn’t write that. David Miscavige or an agent of his did or they fed Marty or another ghost writer phrases or notes to compose that from.

    The phrasing isn’t Marty Rathbun’s nor is the language. Marty uses more obscure words. The fixed words here are in a style Miscavige often uses. The words are always precise and full of implications.

    Miscavige loves to use words that are loaded and to repeat his points in slightly varied ways. It’s part of several schools of rhetoric or persuasion. It’s like he introduces an idea then confirms it immediately.

    Miscavige also is careful to have every accusation against himself be either unproven, false or justified. I checked. Nothing stated definitely and clearly is negative about him without being negated in some way.

    Everything positive said about Miscavige is stated as definite fact. Everything about the anti Scientology movement is negative and stated for all of us.

    Marty uses projection at the end to condemn the ad hominem attacks he uses and condemnation of an entire group. Scientology has long used this propaganda technique. They did it in the infamous video where they show Sea Org facilities and no Sea Org members to imply a pleasant existence then condemned the movie Going Clear for showing ants on a wall instead of interviewing Sea Org members.

    The Scientology video didn’t interview Sea Org members while Going Clear interviewed several ex members.

    My conclusion is Marty Rathbun is totally compromised and completely turned. Maybe Dan Sherman will write his blog now.

    • Intergalactic Walrus

      The next time that persistent clam calls Skip Press to offer him that writer’s job again, he oughta ask him if the position is to ghostwrite Marty’s blog.

      • Mockingbird

        It may well be.

    • flyonthewall

      If Marty gave OSA his blog wouldn’t they have erased all those articles Marty wrote about Miscavige and Cruise etc?

      I just read it now and to me it doesn’t sound completely alien from Marty. It’s not as florid as his other stuff but he’s also not writing about philosophical metaphysical crap either. It’s a hit job on Ron. All business. I can’t believe that he published details about their private conversations. At this point, anyone who talks to Marty and trusts him to be discreet is a fool.

      • gtsix

        It’s not osa. That’s just silly. *

        *I know nothing and I like silly

      • Mockingbird

        Miscavige wants to fool Marty’s biggest fans. I wouldn’t be surprised if he either deletes or edits his old posts.

        • flyonthewall

          idk, I think that would of happened by now. Why would they want to fool everyone? They could of come up with any number stories for why Marty would erase his posts. I’m bowing out of this fight, riding off into the sunset, this blog is an ugly reminder of the past etc etc etc.

          • chukicita

            I think, and I’m saying this based on past experience, that there is something in Hubbard’s playbook about obfuscating yourself by using agents of chaos. Hearing one person say the opposite of what they previously said can be annoying and confusing and the average person tends to not want to dive into rabbit holes that seem uncomfortable and difficult to follow.

            That, and long cons are long.

          • Mockingbird

            To keep people confused, derailed, fighting and guessing. Taking sides, hurting feelings and never talking again.

      • Jenyfurrrrr

        Yeah he’s commented in the past how horrible the church was to violate the sanctity of trust between auditor and PC and it seems like he invited people to come to him for auditing/therapy to help them with their transition, so shouldn’t those conversations with Ron carry the same “sanctity?”

  • flyonthewall

    Weird that Marty only has 45 comments on his article. And Oracle isn’t even one of them. Maybe the men in the white coats finally took her away

    • outraged

      I think Oracle doesn’t know how to respond yet.

    • Vaquera

      Marty has allowed only 45 comments.

      • flyonthewall

        that’s true but even so, seems pretty light considering the subject

      • MarcabExpat

        I was surprised he let in Chee Chalker’s very pointed response, and SunnyV’s excellent little monologue. Guess he has to allow one or two of the more moderate ones to seem “fair and balanced.” (I don’t know why I just assumed there that Marty cares about being fair or balanced.)

    • MarcabExpat

      Those 45 comments are amazing. What a snapshot of current variations on entanglement with the Cherch.

    • Lynette Byrnes

      Please let me in on the joke, who is ORACLE?

      • flyonthewall

        she’s an ex-scientologist Marty fangirl known for ranting and raving in the comments at Marty’s blog. See his previous post for an example. At least 50% of the comments are her replying to herself dozens of times about god knows what.

        • Lynette Byrnes

          Thank you, my Dearie!

        • Commodore H. McCringleberry

          There’s a sock account over that only posts to correct her spelling and grammar errors. It drives her up the wall and she’s been known to rattle of five or six unhinged replies, spittle flying, all timestamped two and three minutes apart. While I can’t totally vouch for the identity of that person, but I’ve heard they post over here as someone that rhymes with Jingle McTingleberry. . .

          • TheMirrorThetan

            LOL. Tell Jingle McTingleberry to keep up the good work. 🙂

    • Bob Crouch

      Other sycophants have taken her place in the meantime. Most of the 45 comments are congratulations on a job well done, justifications for why writing a “book review” validating the cult’s Ron smear site is perfectly OK, etc. On Marty’s preceding post, everyone who disagreed or even questioned got a beatdown from the blog master himself. So I guess prospective posters there have learned their lesson in conformity.

      Goes to show: You can take the boy out of the cult; but can you take the cult out of the boy? Let’s hope so!

      • Robert Eckert

        I find the comments “The book is so terrible I only read three words of it” to be a little odd.

  • outraged

    so,…Marty has switched teams again.
    As someone who professes such spirituality and fairness Rathburn is curiously fond of making boundaries between people.

  • Fink Jonas

    Everybody is wrong except Marty, David is wrong, Ron is wrong, the church is wrong, the Bunker is wrong, all the critics are wrong, except Marty. I think his service fac is acting up. somebody needs some auditing pronto before he starts freewheeling.

  • Hamtaro

    Hopefully today’s post will finally end the highly specious “Mike Rinder and Marty Rathbun are exactly the same” argument. Rinder has, for years now, unequivocally fessed up about his own prior misdeeds and posted on a daily basis on the side of truth. Marty has done exactly the opposite and only supported that which feeds his obvious malignant narcissistic personality disorder.

    My wish is that today is the last time Marty Rathbun warrants the attention of Tony and the good-minded people of the Bunker. And that Monique has already put her son in his car seat and fled permanently.

    • Lynette Byrnes

      Ha! Thank you! I literally just posted a Mike Rinder question. I agree with you completely.

    • gtsix

      While I agree on the MR = MR point, I cannot agree that M. Rinder has done “unequivocal fess up about his prior misdeeds”.

      I can agree that he has been an unwavering, reliable consistent source of information, and assistance to many leaving, left or questioning how to leave. I enjoy the rinder blog, his wit and his keeping to a simple agenda: document and watch. I hope sincerely that someday he will be reunited with his adult children.

      • Ann B Watson

        What a good post to read.Thank you.I did not personally know Mike when I was in and I did not know of him until just a few years ago on his blog.He has shown me that change is inevitable if I want to progress on my path,in other words I am not the same person I was when I blew the SO.I hope to keep climbing higher and I still feel badly about regging in the SO.It was a tough tightrope to Thurs at 2:00.Mike is a kind and good soul who has seen the dark side too.I join with you in wishing a reunion with his adult children and other family members.❤️💗💞💌

        • gtsix

          Birthday sister, I heart you!

        • aquaclara

          Congratulations on your freedom and new life, Ann. I’ve watched your tremendous progress in your posts on Mike’s blog and just want to give you a bunch of ^^^^^^^^^^^ for all your terrific comments.

          Wishing you much happiness….

          • Ann B Watson

            You have my heart.Climbing the mountain of knowledge, but this time I mark my own trail,not following Ron/ David’s thank you!I have enjoyed your posts so much too and I want to climb higher.❤️

  • Whoever is TreasonousF**k commenter, I just want to thank you. Your handle is funny as F**k. That’s all.

    • MarcabExpat

      And their comments are gleefully on point as well.

    • Commodore H. McCringleberry

      The praise from OSA is also a nice touch.

  • Fink Jonas

    That book Scientology, seems like is all diarrhea about diarrhea.

  • Lynette Byrnes

    Has anyone about Mike Rinder’s take on this?
    I can’t imagine him agreeing, even though they are Buds, right? Rinder actually “married” the Rathbuns.

    (Xenu help me, but I just do SO LOVE that Rinder laugh and entirely new attitude. He seems to have completely “de-Creeped” himself.)

    • Pretty sure Rinder is part of nasty anti-scientology camp.

      • Liberated

        Didn’t you refer to yesterday as a “chill day”?
        Well, the bunker’s on fire today!

      • Harpoona Frittata

        Anyone who hosts “Regraded Being” is at the very tippy top of lil davey the savage’s shit list and sure to rue many days 😉

        • And Terra Cognita.

          • MarcabExpat

            I am loving those Terra Cognita posts. The next time someone I know is being tempted, swayed, misled or otherwise led down the primrose path by the Cherch, I’m going to refer them to those posts (instead of going to the trouble of burning them a dvd full of stuff they can now find on the internet). They really tell it all in terms of life at ground level in the clampire.

    • Jenyfurrrrr

      What Dodo said… AND what makes it worse is when people tried to bring up Marty on his blog he shut it down and said he didn’t want to get into it and wouldn’t let anyone bash Marty or question his motives. So for Marty to lump him in with (the likes of us 😂) this label he’s pasted to anyone who isn’t his fan or follower is incredibly shady, IMHO.

  • Lynette Byrnes

    Uh, hmmm. Something just occurred to me (and forgive me, I don’t know if anyone else said this yet…)
    I’ve read that Marty is NOT happy with how he’s portrayed in Louis Theroux’s upcoming flick (WHY MUST WE WAIT UNTIL JAN ’17?? Wahhhh!)
    Anypoop, I wonder if this “seemingly sudden” change in attitude and language has anything to do with that?

    • daisy

      Many people have speculated that is the case. I myself think it is the only logical answer to this weird abrupt turn about. I also use the word logical laughingly because this is scientology. The poster Once Born has a really good post on this in the am.

  • Ok (I may regret this later) but let me say this about that. I am not making an argument about MARTY I am making an argument for what he said about Ron and Ruthless.
    I think Marty breakdown is pretty accurate. Hold on, let me finish before everyone decides the throw me overboard.
    Here is how I see it. People from abusive homes are statistically more likely to themselves become abusers. That is just science. Ron admits he beat DM and his mother, but claims ZERO responsibility for how DM turned out. That was all Scientology, and LRH, but Scientology and LRH are wonderful because they helped me to stop beating my wife, but they turned DM evil. What? You can’t have it both ways. Scientology can’t be the evil that turned your son to the dark side and a salvation all at the same time. Pick a side.
    The difference between Ruthless and Troublemaker?
    Leah owns her faults. She fesses up to a bunch of shit right at the beginning and tells all the shit she did without sugar coating it or justifying it. She admits to disconnecting from friends. For reporting on them and all of that. She doesn’t make excuses for it or wish it away.
    Ron was very good at riding the DM wave. We all tread on egg shells around him when he came down to CC because he was DM’s father. In return he got lavish gifts (Like DM got) and a lot of perks. When the perks ran out, he (Ron) ran away. Then when he couldn’t make it on his own (and this is an ENTIRE other post about how the Sea Org treats old people that it discards, don’t get me started on the disgustingness of that) he got money and a house from DM he decided that wasn’t enough for him. So he wrote a book. Does he have a story to tell? Yes. Does Ron have the right to tell his story? Yes. But tell the real story. It isn’t pretty and he isn’t the hero. And that is a hard pill to swallow.
    Hell I have been working on my own book for over a year now. Why isn’t it done? Because I am writing down all my shit and it isn’t pretty. And it is HARD. It brings on my PTSD so full-blown that I don’t sleep. Do I really want all that out there? Probably not. Will it help someone? Maybe. Will I make a bajillion dollars and get a book deal from a publisher? Nope. I am not famous. I am not related to the Hubbards or Miscaviges. But I have two kids and above all I teach them to tell the truth, even when it’s hard. Even when you are the bad guy. You have to learn your lesson from the shit you do, and be a better person. That is what I have tried to do. That is why I spoke out in the first place. To tell the truth. Other wise why they hell is anyone talking about Scientology at all?

    • gtsix

      This is a great post Nora.

      But the reasons for the mocking of the Mark Rathbun blog post are as well.

      And in true bunker style, they are for the exact same reasons you state: stand up and speak honestly, or sit down and shut up.

    • OOkpik

      Of course you can have it both ways!
      Scientology cured DM so he could beat people like he was taught, unencumbered by epilepsy. 🙂

    • flyonthewall

      How did Ron’s perks run out? I read the book and I what I took away from it was that he just had enough of the insanity and left for the same reasons everyone else who left did, he just had enough. And Ron wrote the book after his daughters disconnected from him, not bc whatever money he got wasn’t enough.

      Ruthless is my least favorite Scientology related book for many reasons. I won’t get into all of it bc I’ve been over it before and just don’t feel like repeating myself. I agree that he’s inconsistent on the Scientology thing. And with his domestic abuse and bad mouthing his deceased wife it’s almost impossible to have sympathy for him. However, the way Marty criticizes it makes Marty sound like a slighted, vindictive ex-girlfriend. Ron wouldn’t accept my “fact checking” so I’ll show him. Also Marty posting details of his and Ron’s private conversations was really crass and backstabby. I think there’s as much wrong with Marty’s post as there is with Ron’s book for real.

      • gtsix

        I agree with all of your points, but the perks bit.

        Remember the onion story? Where Ron Sr. took an onion and got yelled at by the cook? It was defo a bunker discussion, that he could just walk in and take something that no other SO member would think of doing

        And the Saxton vids where he talks about the lavish funding of SO execs, while the dregs got 50$ a week.

        Not hard to believe the father of the furhrer got some perks.

        • flyonthewall

          Sure he got perks but just bc he got yelled at by the cook once and told to move his car or whatever doesn’t mean his perks ran out, I just remember that being examples of how hostile the atmosphere was. Yes, obviously those are lame compared to what others were subjected to, which makes him a cry baby so idk I forget my point

          • gtsix

            Yeah, he got perks. Good point. I agree. Wait… what were we not talking about? Fookin hell, it’s only Thursday, I’m drinking like it’s Tuesday.

    • iampissed

      Nice post Nora….Thank you

    • Lynette Byrnes

      Nora, holy poopies, you are awesome. I agree with you completely. You are also one HELL of a strong lady. Hat’s off, my dear! You’re lovely!

      I’ve never been involved with $ci-fi-ology, but since Going Clear, I am obsessed to the point that my husband thinks I’m a little nutty, although he married me knowing this. Ack! In fact, truth be told, I watch so many interviews and clips now, Tony Ortega actually made a swashbuckling appearance in my dream two nights ago. (No Tony, if perhaps you read this, I am not a stalker…unless you want me to be…wink, wink… heehee…)

      Anyhoo, it’s funny. When I watched the Ron Miscavige 20/20 piece, I no longer wanted to read his book. In fact, I got a FREE credit from Audible and I thought, hey…let’s hear this book from this guy’s father. Then…NAH!!! From that TV interview…I saw David Miscavige. I guess I’m glad the guy’s out, but…if it was still good for him…he’d still be there. (Although I think the SOB/COB is truly a dangerous little man.) But I watch Ron Sr. talk, and walk…and THERE IS THE GREAT DM, just an older version! He’s a tough guy, Daddy was a tough guy. APPLE = TREE.

      Turns out, WITH MY FREE CREDIT FOR AN AUDIO BOOK, I got Chris Shelton’s instead. Cool dude. Good, smart guy.

      Funny thing is, while learning and reading all of this, I found out that one of the EARLIEST Philadelphia-area SCI centers was right here in my neighborhood, literally 3 blocks away in Ardmore, PA. I’ve done some research and have found that what is now a “Party City” here on Lancaster Ave., was once one of the first “orgs” or “pre-orgs.” If ANYONE can shed more light on that subject…and that includes YOU oh man of my dreams, Mr. Ortega, I’d love to know more about that.

      Bottom line, I think you are SPOT ON. Thanks Nora, for being so open and vocal.

      PS – Am I stupid to be using my real name here? Chuh-oh! Here comes “Operation Ardmore, PA!”

    • Kim O’Brien

      i did not buy Daddy’s book or Leah’s book or Marty’s books or any other exes books . Read enough excerpts from all of them . I am a little stuck up . I like to read people who write for a living … I call them ” authors ” ..or ” people who write about stuff for a living because they mastered their craft and went to school and stuff” . A badly written book that is thrown together and disjointed ….just offends me on a personal level … and since a lot of the exes thought they were the best at everything , when they write something ..it’s usually crap .

      There are very, very few stories that I really would even give a shit about hearing . Your’s is one of them …and Derek’s is another . Please keep making the effort …i have a feeling that i would not be disappointed

      p.s. if you let Marty proof read it or fact check it or put his cooties on it …i will kick you in the shins 😉

      • I found Leah’s book to be quite engaging and well writte fast read. It’s no Going Clear, but it’s conversational and intimate in tone. Ron’s book was really hacky and he seemed to do very little digging where it mattered most. Strictly the car wreck you just can’t look away from.

    • Ben Franklin

      Nora, you have made great points, but I have to respectfully disagree that David Miscavage’s abusive behavior towards others is mainly Ron’s fault for physically abusing David as a child. The way I see it is that all of the people involved must take responsibility for their own actions. Ron should have remorse for treating his family the way he did. David Miscavige should also take responsibility for his own actions. It is entirely possible for someone to grow up in a very very abusive environment and yet turn out to be great human being who does not abuse others. For me, the main problem with Ron’s book is that it seems like they were trying very hard to find things that would be pleasing to hardcore Scientology critics and independent Scientologists. For obvious reasons Ron seems conflicted whether he believes fully in Scientology “tech”.

    • TexasBroad

      I am sorry the process is so difficult emotionally, but I am so glad you are writing a book. You are so good at relating your story and your raw honesty is compelling.

    • 9001

      I’m talking about $ciontology to help bring it to an end. I’m not writing a book about it.

    • grundoon

      John Duignan writes in his review of Ruthless…

      I do not contend the assertion that life in David Miscavige’s Sea Org was miserable. It was a ridiculously regimented, sweat shop existence. We were ruled by bullying, fear and terror. We were trapped by poverty and ignorance. But even within that system it is possible to take a stand, to right some wrongs. Where was Ron when his Granddaughter, Jenna, was going through hell, not being allowed to see her parents, often for stretches of a year or more? Where was he when his son, Ron junior, was battling the terror little David unleashed on the Sea Org crew in 2000?

      Ron’s issue is really that of petulance. He, the father of the Ruler, being treated like regular crew. He lacks the self-awareness to see that he was in fact privileged. He was treated with kid gloves. I remember the exhortation, passed on to us by the Commanding Officer of Gold, Ron Norton. David Miscavige told them ‘look after him, he is my Dad’. He sees fit to remain miffed on being chewed out by the Gold Base Motor Pool guys for parking his car in their repair lot.

      • Jenyfurrrrr

        I saw that review and thought he was speaking what a lot of exes may be feeling after reading that softball of a book! I thought of Jenna a lot and wondered why so little was mentioned of what she went through and his having recognized that later…

    • Commodore H. McCringleberry

      I think you’d be hard pressed to find any disagreement to what you’ve said here at all. I read his book and I’ve read much better, even on the exact topic. Headley’s book is 1000 times better. My honest assessment, closing the book was that he’s not the sharpest knife in the drawer (like has a harder time putting his emotions into words than most), and that the ghost writer had his own agenda.

      The real issue here is once again Marty Rathbun’s place at the table. The mortal sin is that Ron Sr. skipped out on the mandatory bag of kiss ass that’s due to Marty for keeping Scientology relevant and a real player in world events so that Ron had an opportunity to have a memoir-worthy experience. Marty wasn’t even going to charge him money, for fuck’s sake! He offered his stamp of approval in the Spirit of Magnanimous Volunteerism (though he readily admits his intention was to destroy the whole effort)! How dare a peon like Ron Miscavige and a po-dunk backwater publisher like St. Martin’s Press refuse him his due. Shame on them.

    • Jenyfurrrrr

      Nora –
      You hit the nail on the head! No overboarding needed! (And I’d read any book from you in a heartbeat!!!). As a parent and never-in, I was bothered by his lack of responsibility for anything. Never having experienced anything close to the SO, just hearing stories from others, it felt like he was detached and felt entitled even STILL to such better treatment than most others on the base. The lack of responsibility for how he treated his sons, wife (& no mention of his treatment of the daughters… I doubt they came out unscathed) but NO responsibility and a lot of minimizing, it just didn’t sit well. The payout… There’s nothing wrong with his having received it, but recognize that no one else gets that (or access to cars, to come and go, do laundry, etc…) and the fact that he didn’t stick up for his granddaughter earlier, elder son, only when things got a little tougher for him… Just ICK. I enjoyed hearing the stories and try to support anything that increases awareness of the need for this cult to disappear, but I agree with many of Marty’s points. The timing of his post seems off and the way it’s couched in “I wouldn’t have let that through…” along with the detached way he referred to Rinder (after they were SO close for a long time despite how Mike was treated by him AND the reality that Mike supported him when a lot of others wouldn’t. Karen too… And now they’re all lumped into this group of “anti-cultist cult” just bugs me because it’s all very disingenuous. I don’t know what to think about the guy, but his assessment of Ron’s book has areas on which we agree, though none of it is related to whether he was a fact-checker or not!

    • Jenyfurrrrr

      PS Nora – SO much respect for all you are going through to get your story out. THAT is what makes it so worth reading – it’s REAL and HONEST. That takes self reflection, honesty and taking responsibility. Which is also why you’re the amazing person and parent you are!

    • Tony Ortega

      Ron made it pretty clear that he wrote his book because Denise and Lori disconnected from him. It’s very clear in the book, and I’ve confirmed it with my own reporting, which I wrote here at this website.

      So when you say, Ron actually wrote his book because he ran out of the money DM gave him, can you cite anything that confirms that?

      You’re being pretty judgmental here, and asking us to believe a very different version of Ron’s story than the one he tells himself and that even Marty didn’t question. Marty questioned the accuracy of the stories Ron wrote about what was happening in Scientology not what was happening to Ron in his personal life, as you have.

      Marty says that there are numerous errors in the book because his advice was ignored, but then he doesn’t provide a single example of even one error. Let me tell you how typical that is of people who complain about news stories or books.

      I had my own criticisms of Ron’s book, but when you say he didn’t tell the “real” story, you might want to back it up with even a shred of counter evidence.

      Good luck with your book.

      • Mockingbird

        I have gone over Marty Rathbun’s post again and he made every negative statement about Miscavige either uncertain, untrue or justified. Every one. He made every positive statement about Miscavige definite, clear and certain. Every one.

        The writing style isn’t Marty’s. The words chosen are consistent with press releases from Scientology. Many examples are there. Marty Rathbun normally uses a different vocabulary with more exotic terms to seem intelligent. He usually makes a conscious effort to use words his audience will need to look up.

        I don’t see any explanation other than somehow Miscavige turned him as plausible.

        • Scream Nevermore

          Or Marty just gave him the site’s passwords, and walked away from it.

          • Mockingbird

            That’s the best explanation actually.

      • Tony, when I say “real” I mean the unfiltered story. The one that you chat about with friends from the “old days” when you discuss what went on behind the gates. There are stories that he could have told. Real insight into DM’s childhood that he could have given, from the pre Scientology days. But instead, like the 20/20 interview, it was Ron telling how he was a victim and DM was a creation of Scientology and Hubbard and he had no hand in that. I would have far more respect for him and this book if he had owned it. He fucked up as a father, he beat the hell out of his kid and ingrained in him at an early age that beating and berating were the way to get things done, and then he turned him over to another total psychopath who took DM’s early training in brutality and turned it up to 11. That would have been something to read. A father reflecting on his mistakes and how he witnessed what he started with DM bloom into the horror show that it is today and how he would perhaps do something about it. Maybe take responsibility for in part giving birth to one of the most sadistic cult leaders in modern history.
        Disconnection is terrible and should be abolished. I have had 100’s of people disconnect from me in vicious and terrible ways. One day I hope Scientology and it’s practice of disconnection are a footnote in history.
        What I said is my assumption of what has gone on for Ron. I haven’t had a chance to speak with him personally since he left. But he was one of the few people who HAVE left that actually got a “Settlement” if you will from the church. I was perfectly fine with him getting ANY amount of money and living out his life in peace. Personally I think anyone who has survived the Sea Org deserves all that and more. And maybe his daughters disconnecting spurred him on or the PI scandal, I’m not sure. But I feel like telling this partial truth isn’t helping what is the ultimate goal. Scientology losing its tax exempt status and fading into obscurity. If that is not what is trying to be achieved by speaking out, then honestly I don’t know why talk about Scientology at all.
        I know that will rattle the indies cages and that is fine. I am willing to debate every single point of Scientology with anyone, any time, any where.
        But I think it is high time that we ” Defrocked Apostates”, “Anti-Scientology” what ever you want to call us, actually start working TOGETHER to get something accomplished. Which is to strip Scientology of their Tax Exempt status and remove RELIGION from their name. That has to be the end game. And I think it can be accomplished. There is so much truth out there, so many stories that if the WHOLE truth is out there, then it will prevail.
        I look forward to sending you a copy of my book when it is finished.

    • Juicer77

      I hope you are taking good care of yourself through the book process. If it gets too much, take a break. On the other hand, this may be something you have to power through to get it over with. Best wishes to you either way, dear Nora.

    • Matt

      Very well done Nora. Well said. Love your stuff too. Keep up the good work.

  • DexterSka

    I feel sorry for Monique. She wanted to have a normal life.

    • flyonthewall

      if I met someone on an internet dating site and the first thing they tell me is not to Google them and then when I do I found out they were the #2 guy for the Church of Scientology and are believed to be dead, there would def not be a 2nd date. Just sayin. She kinda knew or shoulda knew he was a hot mess when she met him.

      • Rasha

        (glances at profile in other window) ….ah. That sort of thing is “bad”, then? I’m just asking this for a friend.

      • Juicer77

        ^^^ Adult woman who can make her own choices.

  • Jonathan Cummings

    I think Marty just does what is best for Marty now. It is kind of a bummer as I know he could have done a lot of damage to fake church if he wanted to, but he has chosen a different path.

  • Baby

    Holy hell on CNN right now.. Buddha Field A west Hollywood Cult founded in 80’s

    • Lynette Byrnes

      Crap, I wanted to watch that! Turning it on…thank you!

    • Lucille Austero

      Me too. I’m asking my son and husband why they want to watch THIS show, but they make fun of me & my “obsession” with $cientology!

      • Lynette Byrnes

        You too, eh??? You are NOT alone!

      • Lynette Byrnes

        And, I guess we’re just looney enough to use our real names, hahaha!

        • Lucille Austero

          Hi, Lynette!

          • Lynette Byrnes

            Hello Darlin! I am NOT ALONE! heehee!!!

      • Baby

        Very interesting program isn’t it Luce.. Wow.. Cult Network.. Detachment .. No TV .. etc.. interesting..( Yep Cult..)

  • Lionel Drinkwater

    Compliments of HelluvaHoax! @ ESMB:http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?42581-Rathbun-Attempts-To-Defend-David-Miscavige&p=1112862&viewfull=1#post1112862

    “Originally Posted by WildKat: “There’s no way Marty can state this with certainty. Did he spend 24/7/365 with Miscavige year after year, to be able to say what he did or didn’t do? It’s an asinine claim.”

    I must disagree.

    In fact, Marty’s certainty about this is so absolute that he has been invited on Cooper Anderson’s show to give a statement:

    http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy357/bankofphotos/b429322c-36db-47db-bb8c-527a819a1a50_zpsyppafmvf.png

    • Baby

      I can’t.. I just can’t..f5

  • Lynette Byrnes

    Wow, this “Holy Hell” Sundance doc playing on CNN right now is MIND-BLOWING! Not too late to tune in!

    Here is Vanity Fair review: http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/photos/2016/01/holy-hell-buddhafield-photographs

  • Lucille Austero

    I think many of you already know that, as a Doctor, I truly cannot count the number of times I have offered free of charge fact-checking of various manuscripts. And since I am always in a particularly authoritative position, I don’t understand why everone ignores me. I mean, did I mention that I’m authoritative? Particularly authoritative, not merely somewhat authoritative. Like, super big fun time authoritative. More than other people and everything. Just how some people can ignore me, I cannot fathom. Why don’t you answer my phone calls? Did you get my letters? PS: I still have a really cool sailor suit with ribbons and medals and stuff.

    • Baby

      I am a Trained Engineer in Aquatic Theory in relationship to Utilitarian Container Manufacturing . I have given many Workshops to thousands and my reputation is stellar.

      I have graciously offered my services to many in my field, yet they have dismissed me. Let me tell you I offered a once in a lifetime training process and was rebuked. People always amaze me with their ignorance.

      ( Dishwasher)
      ……………………………………….

      PS used Container Manufacturing because when I worked at Campbell’s soup I was a Quality Control Inspector ..( in my youth..) We called it the ” Can Plant..” cause they made cans.

      We always laughed when we were asked what we did in the CONTAINER MANUFACTURING PLANT ( Napoleon, Ohio) because it was just soup cans.

    • Robert Eckert

      WHY YOU NO TAKE SURVEY?

    • Lionel Drinkwater

      Doctor Austero, I have a clicking sound in my left ear. Should I be concerned?

  • Rasha

    …okay, I’m back…. what do I think?

    • You look pretty

      • Rasha

        I need to check in with the Bunker Hive Mind more often!

    • Jenyfurrrrr

      ROFL – I almost asked the same thing then saw your post and LITERALLY LOL’d!

  • Lynette Byrnes

    “Holy Hell” on CNN right now…”Banana-Hammock Cult????”

    Lots and LOTS of Speedos. Ewwww.

    • Baby

      Hahahha .. YEP.. what a creeper..

      • Lynette Byrnes

        I don’t know, the more I watch…uh oh….getting RAND-Y! Uh oh, to WHOM do I turn? Gonna pull out some old tooth-decay LRH “Chubb-ard” pix to get me through the next hour or so! (Whahhhwwwm, whaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhm.)

        • Baby

          O.M.G. hahahaha Yuck

  • Observer

    Moving On Up a Little Spicier

    F5

    • Sherbet

      Wow, I didn’t realize there was such a strong anti-coriander cult.

      • Rasha

        The advice is sage, and it’s about thyme, if you ask me.

        • April

          You forgot Rosemary.

          • Rasha

            …and Ginger, that’s one Hot Pepper, according to Basil. Simply takes my caraway when I’m chili…

            • April

              Actually I was thinking of that Simon & Garfunkel song. Lmao

            • Rasha

              Me, too! ^_^ But I couldn’t squeeze “parsley” in there anywhere….

          • Baby

            Rosemary had an appointment to meet her Therapist April.

      • Robert Eckert

        It’s a genetic thing. Coriander tastes like soap to some people.

  • Lynette Byrnes

    Holy Hell, is anyone else watching this doc on CNN? Who could follow a guy who wears only a Speedo, white socks and loafers? That would have been my FIRST clue. A-duhhhhh!

    And ummmm, he’s gay, right? WHO CARES WHO YOU WANT TO SLEEP WITH??? But this is the SAME thing that Marshall Applewhite did. (aka Heaven’s Gate http://www.cnn.com/US/9703/29/applewhite/). So…he couldn’t deal with it for WHATEVER REASON…even in the 1980’s…but bring everyone else into your closet with you…and of course…NO SEX (no soup) FOR YOU!

    Vanity Fair review: http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/photos/2016/01/holy-hell-buddhafield-photographs

    • Liberated

      I watched the 1st hour, it made me sick.
      I just couldn’t take anymore, what a creep!

    • daisy

      I am not sure I can finish .

    • Intergalactic Walrus

      Thank heavens, LRH never discovered “Speedo Tech”! Those goofy ascots were bad enough 😉

      • Rasha

        I think I just projectile vomited a little in my mouth. o.O

  • Sherbet

    Completely off topic, not even remotely on topic. This one’s for you, fly.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-sports/building-ortizs-lego-replica/vp-AAil5Sr

    • TexasBroad

      Thanks -we needed that!

  • JennyAtLAX did a review of Marty’s review. Sorry if this is a dup but I’ve been actually getting some work done around here while you all were yacking 🙂
    Edit: Pasted link 2x and it disappears ? Here is 3
    https://jennyatlax.wordpress.com/2016/09/01/book-review-review-marty-rathbun-on-ron-miscaviges-ruthless/comment-page-1/#comment-1028

  • SciWatcher

    Just went over and actually looked at Marty’s blog. To me it’s one of the most bizarre posts ever, not so much because of what’s there, but because of what’s missing: comments by the Oracle, and responses to any of the comments by Marty himself.

    • Jenyfurrrrr

      I noticed that too – no Oracle… She was all over the last one. Something has really changed over there and it’s no longer just us that have noticed!

    • Chee Chalker

      Adding to the weirdness is Marty is actually posting comments (instead of censoring them)
      Who knows, maybe he is censoring, but he has posted the two I submitted.

    • Baby

      He is waiting for all to digest and comment before Oracle makes her presence. He did that before..

      His next piece will be about all of us again.. with quotes… and that is when he will become Nasty again and allow Oracle to make her presence. ugh..

      • SciWatcher

        Ooh, so that means more fun and games tomorrow!

        • Baby

          It will be awhile.. He’s milking this for all he can get..

          Was it Oracle who said Tony’s numbers have Dropped significantly since he discussed Marty ?.. bawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwhahahahha

          We all know Tony’s blog comments go up and down depending on the Post. Tony isn’t going to make up stories to get views for God’s sake.

          If she is going by comments as views.. Well that is just stupid.

          • SciWatcher

            It’s good to space it out, haha. Unlike some of the others here, I’m quite partial to Marty days. They help offset some of the really bad news posts because he’s such a joke. And the Oracle…crazy crazy crazy

      • Always Amazed

        Can younplease explain oracle to me?

        • Juicer77

          Various theories abound… ranging from “sock” account – someone posing as someone else – to just an unhinged supporter of Marty. Who knows? She/he loves to stir the pot.

          • Always Amazed

            Thanks juicer! I don’t follow MB blog but have lurked and have wondered all the theories u mentioned.

  • Lynette Byrnes

    So, this is only the 2nd time I’ve ever posted and “joined the gang” here on the U.B. The first time for me was when Simpson-Killer, Nancy Cart-WRONG, tried to defend this nonsense.

    The downfall of $CI-FI-TOLOGY has been my (well, what’s another word for obsession that doesn’t make me sound LRH-ey??) PREOCCUPATION! Hell and damn! It’s a story that’s ALIVE…in motion. When was the last time you could wake up and expect a new “slant” or “angle” on this CRAZINESS? I don’t know anything else since the U.B. (I was only 6 when Watergate was the THANG, but I would say I missed that. Bummer.)

    IT-IS…ALIVE!!! Who doesn’t want to watch the death of evil…even in slow motion? Geesh, I love you all you fellow wackos so friggin much!

    But I must ask…

    DOES TONY ORTEGA EVER JOIN IN? As a “journalist” (yeah, got my journalism degree from Temple U many years ago, but now doing LAME marketing and PR for a living while Tony is doing my dream job…blah, blah, blah). But Tony (sometimes) reads these, right? Although, with what he is able to crank out every morning…HOW THE HELL WOULD HE HAVE THE TIME?

    Anyhoo…Mr. Ortega…if by SOME chance you see this…you have reminded me why I went the way I went in the first place (smoochies, woochies, smoochies, etc etc etc…..), so thanks for that.

    Whassup for tomorrow????

    • Jimmy3

      You. You are whassup tomorrow.

      • What’sup

        I am what’sup, do not get us confused.

        • Jimmy3

          But you were what’sup yesterday. Let someone else have a turn, man.

          • What’sup

            Well, okay. I’m sure I’ll be able to come up with a silly username that makes a vague reference to these latest shenanigans.

            • Baby

              NO .. you are always What’ssup.. Jimmy is a POSER

            • What’sup

              I’m still on the fence that he’s actually Taiwanese OSA and they hire an actor to play him for events.

            • Baby

              You know everything is starting to make sense to me now.

            • Jimmy3

              I’m a poser? You only pretend to smoke to look cool in front of your baby friends. You don’t even inhale.

            • Baby

              PFft ” Say Hello To My Little Friend (s)..” Scarface f5

      • Lynette Byrnes

        Thank you. MY TURN! (Garf!!!)

    • Baby

      Yes he reads all of our posts.. He thinks we are all crazy.. and puts up with us. xo

      • Rasha

        …wait – what?

        • Baby

          Crazy in a good way.. Rashie.. Duh..

          • Rasha

            …no, I mean…(hoarse whisper) ..he….READS THESE???

    • daisy

      .Tony has said he reads all the posts but says he pays more attention to the serious posts even just to get ideas for more stories. . He will interact and clear up some misconceptions if we have misread or misunderstood what he is writing about. A hilarious out take of the first annual meeting of the bunkers is Tony saying he reads more posts from the information nerds and teased Baby about her stories. She answered – that’s okay I don’t read your blog or words to those effect. He will get glimpses of things he says but to my great annoyance will not gossip. He is a serious journalist. You can sense his empathy from the questions he asks and the occasional eye roll. He will not interfere with our disputes and usually explains or not. I am no special authority but I feel talkative tonight. If I am wrong about all this he will correct me probably. He does not need sleep.

      • Rasha

        …and he said we can jump on the sofa.

        • Baby

          Really? He told me to ” Jump in the Lake . “

          • Rasha

            Woah. We have a lake??? Why the hell aren’t I notified about these things?

            • daisy

              It was lovely of Johny Tank to take one for the team. I forgot to E-mail , my bad.

            • Rasha

              LOL!!!!

            • Baby

              47x

            • Baby

              Rashie.. I have told you to pay attention. We have a Huge lake behind the Bunker.. Where do you think we take the Trolls?

              Keep UP.. f5

            • Rasha

              I really should listen. I just get all nailgunny and don’t pay attention sometimes. I really do.

            • Baby

              Nailgunny, eh Shit..I word cleared and still don’t know what that means .

            • Rasha

              Hint: shhhhBAP!!!

            • Baby

              I didn’t know there was a picture Rashie.. You have to put f5 .. I really don’t want to report you..

            • lynn
          • lynn

            The one with Johnny Tank in it?

            • Baby

              Yes.. And I did.. hahahhaa ” Nekked and Afraid.. ”

              ( Johnny was..)

            • lynn

              we should take our big pharma checks & go camping at that lake

            • Baby

              I forgot to tell you that every time I see your Avi I smile. I’ve missed you..

              Oh Camping..The last time I went camping I ended up in a hotel..I’m not one to rough it..hahahhahaha

              .. We’ll stay in the huge cottage beside the lake OK..? You know the one with the porch swing in front.. xo

            • lynn

              yes! Cabins are great! lol and thanks. Seems every time I comment, I get knocked off disqus & have to re-log in, but if i just lurk I never have that problem…strange. It’s always good seeing you, You’re such a light in this blog which at times can be bit much.

            • Baby

              Oh lynn that was so sweet of you to say that. Weird about Disq..ugh.. I just love your avi. f5

              https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3997b9f39d4f1e2c717b17150aff52aaf953347f941127619e36252e141947bc.gif tha

        • daisy

          Or pass out under the bar, but don’t let Sherbet see.

        • Liberated

          Now ya tell me.

      • Baby

        He called my fabulous posts ” Campfire Stories! ” f5

        • Lynette Byrnes

          LUCKY!

          • Baby

            Really? He never reads them! hahahha

        • vicariousthrill

          That face! Oh what a pissah!

          • Baby

            I know hahahha.. I stole it from the Bunker.. I forgot from who..oops or I would give them credit.. But seriously.. That is me! hahhaha

      • Baby

        Daisy… Hats off to you.. Excellent Explanation… f5

        • daisy

          Every once in a while I listen. Thank you. Kittehs. Someone at work called me kitten one day, I liked it so much I named my big German Shepherd Kitty.

          • Baby

            Then.. You are MY kitten.. cute ( Remember Father Knows best.. the younger one called Kitten..)

        • Rasha

          “Hello, my Baby, Hello, my honey, Hello, my ragtime gaaaaallll”

          • Baby

            hahhahaha

      • Lynette Byrnes

        Well, again…he is a hero of mine. Perhaps I JUST HAVE A MAJOR CRUSH, who knows? Hehe.

        • daisy

          We all have a crush on him.

          • Liberated

            O/T… Have you ever looked for your glasses and they’re sitting on your face?

            • daisy

              I spent an hour looking for them on my head. I like to think these little disturbances are as a result of my chronic insomnia or misspent youth.

            • Liberated

              Misspent youth?
              At least you never joined a cult!

            • daisy

              Drugs , scientology . I made the right choice.

            • Liberated

              I did both, I’ll take drugs in a second. Hell yeah.

            • daisy

              Ok I am done I cannot watch this man ooze anymore and I made it through the entire RNC.

            • beauty for ashes

              Disqus just pulled up your profile, and I just read this out of context. You are adorable. Just sayin.

            • daisy

              Back at you .Hope Mom is feeling less pain.

            • beauty for ashes

              Things were not at all what I hoped for. There are some growths on her spine and in her lungs. Today was long and tough. Tomorrow is going to be hard for her too, lung biopsy and radiation on the nodules on the spine. She’ll be in the hospital at least til sunday. Say prayers for me and my Mom okay?

            • daisy

              Oh man , I complety thought she was having sciatic pain. That is a really rough diagnosis. Prayers on the way.Your life has been so awful this year. Stay strong. Please keep me informed. RL sucks Let me know if you want my E-mail address.

            • beauty for ashes

              MWAH! I am having a really hard time talking about it. there’s still things I don’t think I understand. thank you for asking. I’m having a hard time keeping it together in front of my mom. I have such a sensitive tear reflex. She already knows this, but it always feels selfish. Emotional stability is not a strong point at this time!

            • daisy

              I would be more worried if you were not teary most of the time. No one going through what you are is emotionally stable. I will let you cue me when you want or need support. I certainly understand the need to not want to talk about it. I often isolate when going through something, so the fact that you are here interacting with others is a good thing. I will continue with my prayers and thoughts. I am sorry you are going through this Beauty.

            • beauty for ashes

              gotta put myself together to drive to the hospital and make sure I eat something. Big girl panties is becoming my mantra!

          • MaxSpaceman

            well not ‘all’ of we, not a crush, no.

      • Mockingbird

        Information nerds !!? Who could that be !!!

        • daisy

          I should have said – Vanity bloggers so there would be no confusion as to who I meant.

          • Mockingbird

            😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

    • aquaclara

      Every day. Tony is here, working, every day. For those of us who have seen the proprietor in action during events, well, he’s juggling multiple electronic devices, calls and stories, all while giving you his full attention.

      In short, Tony works his ass off.

      • Lynette Byrnes

        Please don’t get me wrong. I ADORE Tony! I just can’t comprehend how he does it all. AGAIN, THIS IS WHY HE IS MY MODERN-DAY HERO.

        • Liberated

          Yeah, he is pretty cute, but don’t tell anyone I said that.

          • Frodis73

            Yes he is, and he’s a genuine nice guy too.

    • EnthralledObserver

      He read most… and he lets me stay. 😉

  • Baby

    HOLY HELL IS ON AGAIN now 11.. CNN

    • PerpetualOutflow

      Thanks for the heads up.

  • What’sup

    Just saw a great comment way down thread that contained this sentence, I have to share. It’s from John Prince.

    ” the only thing an e- meter can accurately measure is how stupid you are”….. Lulz

  • aquaclara

    Hoping, of course, that the weather in Clearwater will awake up a few at the. fort Harrison, Sand Castle, Mariner or any one of the misc properties owned by the cherch.

    No amount of Scientology training will keep a storm at bay. Leave while you can.

    Leave when you can. Do you REALLY want your granddaughter dealing with that BS?

    Time to leave….time to start your life anew. Cheering you on!

  • Rasha

    ‘Night Bunks. Early start tomorrow, then a long weekend of VBNs and wings. ^_^

    • Jimmy3

      Very Butts. Nice.

      • Rasha

        After 4 or 5 of ’em, that may be a more accurate definition….

        • Baby

          Good GAWWWWWWWWWd

      • Baby

        Oh JImmy I didn’t think you noticed.. I did wear tight pants one day when you saw me..

        Thanks honey.. xo

        • Jimmy3

          Oh, I did. Charlie MF Angel. Still got it.

          • Baby

            Hahahhahaha .. I love you. f5

    • Baby

      Googled.. Very Bizarre Nights? Good lord you guys.. I swear I have to take a Cleared Word course..

      Night honey.. tomorrow!

      • Rasha

        Vodka Bunker Nailgun. A drink I’ve been trying to invent for some time now. So far, I’ve got a name and one ingredient.

        • Baby

          I used to be a bartender.. What do you want it to taste like. I always made up drinks.

          VBN.. Perfect!

  • Baby

    This is an extremely important Post … from a very respected and well known Ex and critic.

    Hana Eltringham Whitfield • 7 hours ago

    “Shame on you, Marty Rathbun. Shame on you. No wonder you refused to talk to my husband, Jerry and me after you ‘left’ scientology. No wonder you stopped Monique from talking with me. No wonder you still clearly side scientology, the same church you recently decried only to turn tail and run back to it. You have done so much wrong to so many people over the years that it cannot be counted. Those people are scattered around the world and I have heard their stories over the years, all of them wondering at one point whether you might come clean and help answer their questions. You ordered and ran some really nasty black ops against Jerry and me over the years including trying to set me up in South Africa as being my father’s murderer, lying to the FBI about us, lying about us to the police in untold countries, lying about us to the hundreds of families we worked with and whose loved ones we managed to exit from scientology, suing us for requesting police assistance with a stalker, and so much more. No wonder you have once again run away. You are utterly unable to confront what you have done. I hope some day you can.”

    • Liberated

      I know, it was the highlight of my day.
      I love Hana, she was the perfect example of a beautiful, smart young girl that Hubbard knew he could con with his bullshit. She had planned on going to medical school until he talked her into joining his cult.
      He took advantage of her eagerness to do something great and make a difference in the world.
      I get mad whenever I think about it. At least she did do something great, she helps people realize how deceived they were and helps them recover.

      • Baby

        Lib I agree.. I had a teeny.. I mean teeny soft spot for Marty before I read Hannah’s post.

        I realize that Being a Scientologist and an Ex comes with Baggage. You are dealing with very complex issues.

        Especially with his childhood background added to the mix and his Schizophrenic brother. Mind Control .. with hypnotic drills is very dangerous. I know others feel the guilt and sorrow that they have placed on others while in Scientology.

        I never got that from Marty..

        I was a big supporter of Marty when he first started his blog. I was happy that he was out. I thought him introducing the Indie movement to several would be a great TEMPORARY transitional point for them.

        and the more Exes spoke out about his abuse.. I just added it in my memory .. and they just kept being added and added.. with books and movies..and docs.. Marty’s name always came up as the Aggressive Enforcer.

        Everything I hated about Scientology appeared to be defined by Marty. I’ve always attempted to rationalize it. I mean Monique is a beautiful strong woman. She see’s the good in Marty and I was excited when their son joined the family.

        The words that I have heard about the critics.. the anti-Scientologists .. Tony and others from Marty and his Cadre absolutely can NOT be rationalized away. They were vile attacks.

        The Consequence ( Degradation ) did not fit the crime of Tony reporting that Rathbuns have dropped the case and fired their lawyers?

        When I read Hanna’s comment.. It has stuck with me.

        and I have finally made my conclusion. Marty has many amends to make.. HE may claim that he is not a Scientologist, but he has the Valence of a Scientologist.

        He Attacks like an Attack Dog. Perched ready to Pounce on an Anti Scientologist and/or many Ex’s. I have compassion for Broken People. But he as a Broken person Broke others.

        to quote Hana.

        ” You are utterly unable to confront what you have done. I hope some day you can.”

        • Miscavige gave the orders. Marty carried them out. Who’s worse?

          • Baby

            Artoo.. I would not answer that question because I can’t.

            I do not know what Marty did without given an order to do so.

            Nor do I know what ideas gave to DM to delegate to others.

            • None of us do, but I too used to give Marty the benefit of the doubt until I really realized that he carried out the malignant intent of Hubbard and Miscavige. I still hope for redemption, but I’m a sucker that way.

            • Baby

              I do not think it will happen Artoo..

              I’m a realist.. There are crimes he has committed that he would go to prison for ( I”m sure)

              But as was stated last night Marty didn’t escape when he beat others.. and treated them like shit.

              He escaped after a few days in the Hole.

            • I believe that redemption is possible, but very rare indeed. It happens – but not as often as we would like to think. Most people take that wrong turning and never look back.

        • ” You are utterly unable to confront what you have done. I hope some day you can.”

          Brilliant!

          • Baby

            Absolutely brilliant words from Hana..

    • I love Hana, you couldn’t meet a more forthright and honest person. Tells it like it is with no lingering malignant snarkiness. A saint.

      • Interested2

        And classiest woman I have ever listened to.

      • Baby

        She is one in a million Pete. She exudes grace , class and honesty.

  • Harpoona Frittata

    Just finished watching the new docu/home movie “Holy Hell” on CNN about the Buddha Field cult.

    Really quite good with a lot of parallels to $cn group think hypnotic trance stuff and all the classic cult mind control stuff, but the ‘lite’ version compared to $cn.

    Well worth watching…no one dies, only one forced abortion and The Teacher is an even a bigger narcissist than Elron (if that’s even possible). I’m pretty sure that they put something in the water in L.A. to make everyone more cult-ready, because these folks looked and acted like they were permanently on Ecstasy 🙂

    The cult leader discouraged sexual relations among his disciples (while diddling all the fine boys secretly), but one ex-cult member said that in private fellow cult members were fucking each other like rabbits, so much so, he said that, “We took to calling the group Booty Fields” Loved that line!

    No mention of any direct ties to $cn, but here’s a nice quote from the Huffington post on the film, “When someone was tempted to raise concerns, another member would
    encourage them to return to their spiritual center. Those who actually
    left were forced to “disconnect” from the group, just like in
    Scientology. (Buddhafielders were sometimes ordered to maintain
    ostensible friendships with these people to keep tabs on them, should
    anyone choose to contact the authorities.)”

    Cults are always a bad thing and none of them come to a happy end, but at least this one had a whole lot more fun, ate a lot better and did a whole lot of yoga, dance and meditation…

    • PerpetualOutflow

      Geez, I guess we didn’t watch the same documentary. The one I saw portrayed a sickeningly malignant narcissist who used his skills in hypnosis to make young, unsuspecting, naive boys his sex slaves and everyone else his life attendants. Nothing fun or benign about that.

      • Harpoona Frittata

        No, we watched the same one, and you’re right, their leader was a sickeningly malignant narcissist. I should have stressed that it was a well-made docu/home movie that did an excellent job of providing insight into the mind’s and hearts of those who were involved in it over an extended period and were able able to get out and begin to heal their lives.

        I guess when you’ve stared into the heart of darkness that is $cn for a long time, then relative to that the Buddha Field group comes off like cult-lite. The film maker and his two sisters were involved with the cult for a long time and when they got out and began to decompress, part of that process was to get to the point where they could laugh at themselves and each other, instead of being buried in the blame, recrimination and loss that acts like gravity on many when they leave a cult.

        My light-hearted tone was more in resonance with the positive emotional place that these cult survivors were able get themselves to and wasn’t intended to make light of the true suffering that this malignant narcissist caused. So, sorry if that caused offense.

        • Baby

          Nice explanation Harpoona

        • PerpetualOutflow

          Thanks HP. That makes sense.

    • Intergalactic Walrus

      Make that at least 2 forced abortions by the same woman. She got pregnant then Master tells her to terminate so she does. Then she gets pregnant again by a guy in Buddhafield thinking this baby will be okay with Master, but Master tells her to terminate again. She does. SMH

  • TexasBroad

    F5
    Goodnight. Hope this is this the right place to pitch my tent. Is this the Anti-Scientology camp?

    • TexasBroad

      F5

      • Tony Ortega

        HowdyCon 1925

        • daisy

          You guys can do weird ballet and song in the woods, , Baby and I will bein the bar around the corner .

          • Baby

            Begin? I’ve been here waiting for you for 4 hrs. Kitten..

        • Baby

          hahahhaha I see Mama Dee and I…

    • Jimmy3

      There are worse places to pitch a tent. Believe me.

    • Fly the flag!

  • beauty for ashes

    I think I need Chris Shelton to unpack Marty’s statements.

    • Better still, leave them packed and wrapped 😉

      • beauty for ashes

        Yes, I only say this because I am enjoying this delicious snark that is happening in his latest series while he is translating academia for us. 🙂

  • Tony Ortega

    Am I the only one who watched “Holy Hell,” and thought, “these pretty people are a bunch of credulous morons.”

    Oh wait, we’re supposed to say that the smartest people can get pulled into [high-control groups].

    See how I avoided the c-word there.

    • What’sup

      Saw this and thought of you. F5

    • Lionel Drinkwater

      Where do credulous morons end and smart people getting pulled into [high-control groups] begin? I would say the dividing line between the two is the ability to write an intelligent book review as opposed to an asinine and petulant rant.

    • beauty for ashes

      You did call them credulous morons, I mean that isn’t technically calling them the c-word Tony.
      edit to add ***said while speaking out of the side of my mouth while twirling a cigar** 🙂

      • Tony Ortega

        I hope you understand which c-word I meant. Yikes.

        • Qbird

          c.u.l.t. is ‘c’ word u mean. aye.

        • beauty for ashes

          🙂 I knew I forgot something!

      • L not N.

        • beauty for ashes

          I know I know, I was trying to joke, but I guess I just sounded lame. thanks anyway Toozi:)

          • Baby

            I got it beauty..xoxoox

            • beauty for ashes

              You art like a big soft chenille robe of love <3 <3 <3

            • Baby

              OH You are the FLIP to my Flop.. flipflop…. I love to wear them..hahaha

          • I just never noticed that those words were just a consonant apart, and I’ve set a lot of type in my day.

            • beauty for ashes

              I’ve been playing a lot of text twist.

    • Baby

      I liked the part about ” Co-dependent people were drawn to Narcissists ..” They fill each others needs to hear that they are Worthy.. blah, blah, blah.. ( Paraphrasing..)

    • Kay

      Well IMO a cult is a cult is a cult…..they all operate on the same basic principles of finding people who tend to be idealistic and/or have deep emotional needs that predispose them to someone being able to totally screw with their minds until they don’t have any more self-actuation or personal identity left. The thing that struck me about Holy Hell when I first watched it was that the leader immediately gave me the willies on so many levels, that I found myself wondering, “why didn’t he evoke a visceral response in these followers since my skin is literally crawling.” But then again, look at Warren Jeffs, the ugliest, whimpiest, creepiest POS pedophile “religious” leader on earth…. his people still worship and follow hiim from jail, yet he gives everyone outside of his flock the creeps. It’s an interesting and complex phenomenon. The majority of cult leaders are also sexual abusers, so the Holy Hell leader did not disappoint in that arena, unfortunately.

      • Aye and calling a group that exposes cult shenanigans a cult itself, is a typical Scientology “hide it in front of their faces” trick. The clues are all there, innit?

        • Put another way from school years, if I just be the loudest queer hater nobody will suspect I’m a queer. Will they? How could they? I say all the time how much I can’t stand them. Bloody poofters!

    • Lynette Byrnes

      I don’t know, I shall dream of Speedos and Banana Daquiris all night long. Ahhhh.

      Ick.

      • Kay

        And Ray Ban sunglasses……and makeup….and…..oh just ewwwww

        • Baby

          AND white tennis shoes and shocks.. f5

          • Kay

            LOL !!

            • Baby

              My absolutely favorite character.. My daughter and granddaughter AND I ..said it for a week..and called Mac..

              ” GGGGGGGGGGarrrrrrrrrry ” when he walked into the office..hahhahahahha

            • Kay

              That’s fabulous !!!!

            • Baby

              Mac Hates it..hahhaha… He said the next time I say it he is going to smack me..( Yeah right PFFffffffft )

              He’s scared of me..

          • I can just see you as that famous tennis girl photo 🙂

            • Baby

              hahahhahaha.. I have been up all night and I am feeling slap happy..xo

      • Baby

        bleh

    • Kay

      BTW good sidestepping there using “high control groups.” 🙂

    • Harpoona Frittata

      Good job! Now if you can just manage to avoid saying “provable bullshit” too often (which is really, really hard due to its hilarious double meaning), then you’ll be home free 😉

    • Lionel Drinkwater

      I think it is asking too much for morons to also be credulous. Is it not sufficient to simply allow them to be morons?

    • trunklesstree

      Those “credulous morons” reminded me of Scientologists. No difference except the holy hell peeps were better looking than Scientologists.

  • MaxSpaceman

    Marty Mark really can’t help but be a douche.

    After proving himself — for all time — feckless and ineffective and, more importantly, unstable and out of control emotionally in Louis Theroux’s upcoming film, Marty Mark has become the most irrelevant of all Ex-Executives of Scientology Inc.

    Mark’s claim to fame was his Inspector Generalship of Scn, in which position Mark has wronged more people, more viciously, than most criminal felons in State and Federal penitentiaries.

    Mark Rathbun needs to get a life. Because what he has now is like Mark is just trolling now out there in the Van Allen Radiation Belt (figuratively speaking) of being not much of anything, not doing much of anything, a man with little if any consequence.

    Mark could go on and be a good dad and husband; apologize to the thousands of people he harmed; write a few fiction books, make a living, support his family and

    shut the fuck up on all things Scn forevermore. (After he apologizes for his horrific acts to individuals by name).

    See Baby’s post of Hana Whitfield’s comment to Marty Mark below thread http://tonyortega.org/2016/09/01/marty-rathbun-defends-scientology-leader-david-miscavige-as-he-trashes-tell-all-memoir-ruthless/#comment-2872119474

    • Mooser42001

      “write a few fiction books, make a living”

      He may well do both, but it’s hard, from what I’ve seen at his blog, to imagine the latter would be a consequence of the former.

  • Lionel Drinkwater

    Where may I get a copy of the anti-scientology agenda?

    • daisy

      I have still got the policy manual and will bring it back in the morning, sorry for the inconvenience,

    • My dog ate it.

    • Baby

      You do know that first you have to send me $5,000 .. and you can’t read it until you have gone through the other steps first..

      You can NOT read it without completing the training steps because you will die of the Plague that has not been seen since the Middle Ages.

      I will send you my address to begin the path..

      • Kay

        Laugh !!!!

        • MaxSpaceman

          Out Loud !!!

      • Lionel Drinkwater

        I am not opposed to sending you $5,000 on blind faith to get a copy of the great and dreadful anti-scientology agenda. Unlike those incredibly right-thinking people at that other blog, I prefer to have others do my thinking and book reviews for me. This frees me to conduct my irrational single narrative rampage in order to create entheta and besmirch the sterling repute of David Miscavige.

        • Baby

          Sounds great Mr. Drinkwater Sir. I will prepare the Manuscript for you and send it by bike messenger.. You can place my money in my foreign bank account next to DM’s..

          Just be on the look out for my bike Messenger.. f5

          • Lionel Drinkwater

            I await my copy of the anti-scientology agenda with the same eagerness I once awaited OT3. I hope I shall be just as thrilled to discover that the anti-scientologists are also secretly connected to an alien overlord and a diabolical plot to enslave planets and civilizations.

            • Baby

              Well then you will be quite pleased. f5

            • Mooser42001

              I hope the anti-scientology agenda doesn’t conflict with my gay agenda.

    • MaxSpaceman

      In “The World’s Only Reliable News,” the Weekly World News ?
      http://weeklyworldnews.com/

      • Baby

        f5 hahhaha I thought it just said.. OMG you are funny.. I didn’t know it said NO.. bawwwwwwwwhahahhahahhaaaaaaaaaaa

    • Harpoona Frittata

      Well, we pretty much believe whatever Tony says and try not to have any original thoughts of our own, so if you just catch up on his blog posts, then you’ll be able to meld with the anti-$cn Borg in no time flat;)

      • Mooser42001

        “Well, we pretty much believe whatever Tony says…”

        He’s proven to be quite reliable when it comes to reporting on Scientology. Seems to do very well at it. I think he’s reliable.

        • Harpoona Frittata

          So do I. I was just mocking the Marty crew and their take on the “anti-$cn” crew being all alike and mindless followers of Tony.

  • Too tired for this level of mayhem. Carry on. I’m going to bed.

    • beauty for ashes

      Keep up your strength moose caretaker!

    • Baby

      Night artoo..xo sweet dreams..

  • Dave Reams

    Vance Woodward – you are not alone in being punished by the pro business juice stiff system :

    Aurora shooting massacre survivors ordered to pay Cinemark theater chain $700,000
    http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIwyIPnvC0

    • Baby

      JESUS CHRIST! ( I’m praying not cussing) This is fuckin ridiculous and makes me absolutely sick.

  • Gus_Cox

    Miscavige is an anus. I don’t need anybody to fact check that.

  • Lynette Byrnes
  • Lynette Byrnes

    Goodnight, you lovely 2-headed kooks. KISSES!

    • MaxSpaceman

      Rosey Grier and Ray Milland

  • Lynette Byrnes

    And, if I may…thank you Gene.

    • Baby

      Night darlin.. Sweet dreams..

    • Liberated

      Don’t be a stranger.

      • Lynette Byrnes

        I shan’t.

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    CO$ favorite NOI Minister Tony Muhammed, (Super Power grad and anti-vax crusader) is in the new Black Eyed Peas video for #Where Is The Love. He’s been crowing about it all week.
    I think that a rough lookin’ Erika Christensen is in it too.
    (refresh)

    • Baby

      I was just going to say goodnight Wally.. Yawwwwwwwn.. man..

      Erika does look rough.. she’s aged 10-15 years.. looks so drained and tired cult eyes..

      • Liberated

        Erika looks like she’s spent some time in the RPF.

        • Baby

          Something is going on with her.. Seriously she is only 34.. she has dead eyes.. NO spark/ life in them.

          and circles under her eyes..

          • Liberated

            Yep

    • Baby

      #Where’s the love..

      Where is the Love is 2003.. The ones with these dudes and Christenson is a redo..and is called..
      Where’s the Love..

      Looked for video but not on youtube.. Lyrics are but not video.. xo baby

  • Tim Hallinan

    The change in Rathbun’s stance, now opposing the “anti-Scientology” forces of which he was once a leading light, really is enough to make you wonder what discussions, and with whom, led to the dropping of that suit. As the target of that appalling anti-squirrel campaign, he must have had some very, very good reasons for deciding suddenly that the problem is the “anti-Scientology” forces rather than Miscavage and the “church” itself.

    • MaxSpaceman

      10 million reasons $ paid over 25 years

      (guesstimating – projecting – possiblity-tizing)

      • Baby

        +

        Coming to his defense( DM’s) and attacking critics and journalists ..antis and Yackity Smackity

    • Marty was never a leading light in the Scientology critic arena. He was always viewed with some suspicion. Some calling for a full confession, others prepared to watch him evolve into a more decent human being. He was however, a leading light to a handful of Indies. A word of advice, if you don’t like people talking about you, STFU and get off the internets. Stacey Vaughan-Young and others have famously said, if you wouldn’t want it all over the New York Times, don’t say it, write it, print it. Another word to the wise, always tell the truth and don’t try to manipulate other people.

      • Let’s assume that Miscavige is somehow behind this (which seems likely) and look at the wider situation for a moment.

        Miscavige has expended a lot of his time, and a lot of the organisational resources of the CofS, on ‘turning’ Marty. He seems to believe that , under proper control, he can deliver a serious blow to the community of critics.

        As you say, Marty’s activities have added interest to the lives of a very small number of impotent and “bonkers Indies”. They are also, apparently, followed obsessively by Miscavige. However Marty never did had much influence, and after “My Scientology Film” he is a spent force.

        Miscavige is congratulating himself on a great triumph – he’s back in control of Marty and he thinks he’s hammering groups like this. However, it hasn’t made any difference in the real world, and the existential threats facing the CofS are still being ignored.

        While Miscavige is playing with Marty, the collapse in CofS recruitment is ignored. Organisational resources that could be used to address that existential threat have been wasted on a personal vendetta against a bit player.

        In short – while they’re obsessing over Marty, they’re doing nothing worse.

  • Baby

    BunnkySkull ESMB

    Re: Rathbun Attempts To Defend David Miscavige

    “So-called disconnection,” seriously? Do any doubters need anymore proof that Marty has made a deal with DM? It’s obvious that DM wasn’t going to let Marty be another Debbie Cook and ride off silently to an island and margaritaville for a few years. DM wanted more, he wanted Marty to repudiate his past statements and start kissing his ass and defending him publicly. He wanted Marty to shit on everyone who once supported him. I wonder if he got the money before or after these posts, or getting installment payments as long as he proves he’s a good boy.

    I’m no fan of Ruthless. I didn’t even buy the book, the excerpts I read in the store were enough. It just wasn’t well written and I didn’t actually think Ron would have much knowledge about his son other than early childhood – and the fallout after he left the cult. We all know once a kid is in the SO the parents don’t know jack shit about what they do or who they become. This was a book written for the general public with a mild curiosity about scientology, not the informed “anti-scientology” crowd Marty is now so rabidly opposed too, who actually do want facts and details not rehashed gossip we’ve all read for years from INT.

    I wasn’t sure Marty would continue posting obvious proof of his deal with the cult on his blog. After his last chimp out I thought he might go dark for awhile. I guess DM isn’t going to let that happen and insists on a monthly defense of his “good name” and Scientology from Marty. Marty is shitting on former friends now. It’s a year and counting since Marty has had anything negative to say about the cult that sucked away the best years of his life and harassed him and his family for five years.

    Given Marty’s former harangues and proclamations about never accepting a settlement or allowing his silence to be bought. I guess he was right in one sense, his silence wasn’t bought – that wasn’t good enough – the cult was sure to twist the knife and insist he humiliate himself and stab all his fellow indies and exes in the back.

    Funny, there were a few people who gave very loud warnings about Marty the first year he was speaking publicly and they got shushed and criticized. (“give marty a chance, he’s evolving” they were told) Looks like they were proved 100% about what a lying untrustworthy human being Marty was and always has been. Marty never gave the critic community anything but careful lips ervice and some back up on already aired facts and stories. He NEVER gave the name, date and places of all the shit he has seen over the years. Never.”

    • MaxSpaceman

      it sounds like the deal is in place and it’s offshore so the US attorneys will not see it.

      Simply, a Cayman Islands account, Marty Mark’s, with some phony fake shell corporate name is opened. Once per month for the next 25 years, Dave will have wired into that account $10,000 (for exampe).

      There are ‘so many’ different ways for him to get his payment(s) off shore that can never be traced, that the attorneys will never know about or find…

      • Liberated

        I wish I had an off shore account in the Caymans.

      • Baby

        I mentioned this when the lawsuit was dropped Max.. and Tony set me straight and said that Lawyers are watching too close..( and yes I think he snapped at me I”m sure..) tee hee

        I still stand by my statement. and agree with you..

        • MaxSpaceman

          I recall your mentioning it and the response.

          They can’t see, however, the offshore banking; it’s not possible to follow the shells for a transaction like this kind of exchange.

          It is ‘so’ easy to manipulate in Cayman Islands, Luxembourg, Macau, Panama. and on and on.

          • Baby

            YEP..

            Yes Tony didn’t get the ” Single Story ” premise that day.. Jeeze

          • Chee Chalker

            But what we can see is a change in lifestyle…….do people all of a sudden start driving around in Lamborghinis? Do people live in a mansion (‘owned’ by a relative) on the beach? Do people have no obvious means of support (no job) yet manage to live a comfortable life?
            All these things draw attention.
            It’s how drug dealers and mob types get caught.

            Not to say people can’t get away with it…….for a while.

            Pablo Escobar told everyone he made his money by owning a taxi company.
            Walter White had gambling winnings

            And now both are dead. At least we think Walter is dead…….the ending of Breaking Bad was not crystal (no pun intended) clear on that issue.

      • Chee Chalker

        Who knows what really went down? You may be spot on or way off……I don’t know

        What I DO know is throughout history, the cover up is what gets people into trouble.
        It’s when people get creative and think ‘I’m smarter than everyone else! They’ll never catch me!’ Those people generally get in 10x more trouble (or is it 47x?) than they would have if they had just fessed up or had done the right thing to begin with.

        History is full of examples of people getting in more trouble for the cover up than the actual crime.
        Will that be the case here? Who knows. We can only wait and see. Time has a way of catching up to people.

    • Baby

      I must admit.. Tony and his Crew HATE Bunnyskull.. HATE

      EDIT: OMG I meant Marty not Tony .. stupid mistake.. thanks to Obs. for pointing it out..

      Damnit..huge difference.

      • Liberated

        Pray tell, who is this Bunnyskull?

        • Baby

          She is over at ESMB .. and she has hit Marty where it hurts.. and he in turn has attacked her ( Crew also chimed in Oracle .. etc. ) with again vile words.

          They do not like ESMB or Bunker.. Cause we got facts on our side, NOT Bull shit..

          I do not who she is..maybe someone does.. but she goes in deep.. hahhahahhaa

          They have an entire forum put together about Marty.. xo
          http://www.forum.exscn.net/forumdisplay.php?91-MartyWorld

          • ESMB is ok. You have to sift through a lot but that’s ok too! If it’s written, it just might not be true.

            • Baby

              Hey Pete.. Fancy Hairdo Mr..
              You are right..I go over to lurk.. I take some info put it in my brain..but leave MUCH more behind..

              Like shopping at the Good Will.. There are treasures if you look long and hard enough.

            • Baby

              I must admit.. Tony and his Crew HATE Bunnyskull.. HATE
              ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
              EDIT: OMG I meant Marty not Tony .. stupid mistake.. thanks to Obs. for pointing it out..

              Damnit..huge difference.

        • Baby

          Lib.. I must admit.. Tony and his Crew HATE Bunnyskull.. HATE
          ……………………………………………………………………………………………………..
          EDIT: OMG I meant Marty not Tony .. stupid mistake.. thanks to Obs. for pointing it out..

          Damnit..huge difference.

      • Observer

        Tony, or Marty?

    • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

      About Ruthless– I took it out of the library. It’s not a must read for critics but it was good. I didn’t like Ron Miscavige much after I read it, though the book wasn’t supposed to create that effect. But I then spoke to a friend who had known him, and my friend said Ron Miscavige was a good guy. The same friend, when I told him years ago that Rathbun had surfaced did not speak well of him, implying that his actions would be very calculated and not always what they seemed to be.

      After a few years, I forgave Marty Rathbun his role in Scientology. Mind you, this forgiveness was in my heart for someone I don’t know, someone who entered the cult after I left it, and someone who wouldn’t recognize my face or name. But I spoke to a person last year who has been a key person in the critical movement who was messed around by Marty Rathbun. He still loathes the man and for good reasons.

      I do see a bit of soap opera in critic’s evaluation of Rathbun. As in so many good stories the character is cheered one day, despised the next, pitied soon after that, then hated and back and forth. I predict that there will be another article that describes MR accurately which will give us yet another impression of him. There are times when I try not to evaluate people yet I am still glad that they live far, far away from me. You know what I mean?

      • Mark Foster

        Mighty K, well said. Cheers 🙂

        • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

          Thanks, Mark. There has been a good exchange of opinion here. It is good to hear from you and I hope all is well.

      • Baby

        Excellent.. Absolutely excellent post Korgo..xo

    • Scream Nevermore

      And he never will.

    • Ann B Watson

      Well well posted my shining light! Made me shed a few tears.❤️❤️

      • Baby

        Really sums it up doesn’t it Ann.. BunnySkull is NOT liked by Marty and his tribe at all..

        I tried to post over at Mike’s today under your post and it just kept spinning around.. I just wanted to say hi to you! and to tell Mike that I

        love his snarky comments before he shows the flyers..hahahaa.. ❤️❤️ baby

        • Ann B Watson

          I am telling you Baby,there are some mighty erratic magnetic triggers,spinning anything to do with me on blogs around in circles.However I have an Ace hidden away.I can be very stubborn and determined well pig headed really when my back is up against a wall.So I keep sending out waves of light laughter and love.That is part of what has kept me slightly sane lol through all the trials in my life.And Mike sure can out snark all comers and he does it with that Aussie charm too.💜❤️💗💞

          • Baby

            Hahahha .. I love his Aussie Charm.. I met him during Tony’s book signing. Just a really nice guy.. it was such a pleasure.. 💜❤️💗💞

  • Michael Leonard Tilse

    Tonight’s conceit is a morality tale. Familiar in it’s broad strokes to historians, lovers of greek theatre and those who haunt the dusty shelves and narrow alcoves of bookstores that specialize in the literature of crime and punishment.

    We have before us one such entangled dramatis personae, drawn as if from those pages and made flesh in our short play. Lonely, on a darkened and echoing stage he catches the spotlight of his past for our illumination.

    The man, his name not important, perhaps even lost to history, cradles the mind that lead him to this dilemma in the very hands that crafted it. Searing memories fence with uncertain futures, the weight of them shaping his slumped shoulders and bent spine.

    Long ago a child. Long ago abused perhaps. Long ago caught between the urge to give up, the urge to fight back, the urge to prove the insults and insulters wrong he blindly, unknowingly, mapped his future. Perhaps there was no other path open, perhaps it was bad choices. In any case that path has lead to this time, this dark room, this rumpled bed, the solitary glow of the screen and the faint warmth, now fading from where his finger rested upon ‘enter.’

    A flashback now, to earlier years, brief sketches of the matrix of his strife.

    Helpless to fight the illness and dysfunction of family, he could at least play sports. Until he couldn’t.
    He could study, until the empty place within him left him no peace.

    The years he nursed hope he could do something, anything, to make it different, make it not be. The dreams of being a doctor, to heal. Of being a warrior, to fight back. Of being a hero, if only for that one crucial moment that would forever change the arc he walks to the grave.

    It is a sere and lonely battle to feel helpless.

    And so makes him the chosen prey of purveyors of hope and potential.

    Not, perhaps, his fault a legendary conman steeped in narcissism and mental illness should cast his minions across our subject’s early path. Not, perhaps, to be blamed for not seeing the false history guilded with lies. But certainly to be at the least the recipient of some small measure of compassion, for there, but for the grace of of whatever gods there be, go we.

    Snapping with desperate hunger at the promise of mental health and ability and power our subject took the proffered hook and its bait of hope. A hope that lead him deeper into the maze constructed by the conman, a confusion that masqueraded as wellbeing, a dependency labeled as freedom.

    Long years passed as his former life receded. As the camaraderie of the fooled soothed his pain. As the rising status in the maze pasted over the empty places in his soul. He began to exult in his position, his power over others, his access to secrets. The petty godhood of being a chief fool to the fooled, the warrior fighting with all his youthful yearning to win battles born of lies.

    Yes, he was a warrior, a general even. Tinsel medals he took for true, a snappy uniform clean and pressed. The ones to be ordered about as is a generals wont proved he was the warrior that long ago child dreamed about. The power he wielded proved he was not powerless. The feeling of command swelled when ever before he had been helpless and commanded. And can we blame him? That he did not see the papers he shuffled were tissue? The orders he gave sprang from shared delusion? The pride he felt, the purpose that filled him had no foundation but the compulsions of a sick fabulist?

    We may as well blame ourselves. And sometimes do.

    But our drama takes a turn into darker realms. Unlike many caught in the same dream of godhood our guest tonite, head in hands, began to conceive not only of his duty to raise his army up, but to punish who would not be raised, or who deserted. Or whose questions shook the fragile fabric of his faith.

    To be fair, again, the pattern he began to follow had been laid and well worn long before he walked the path. Many fierce men and women had charged into battle and retribution at the orders of his leader, the source of his world. He learned from them. He applied his life force and his smarts and all the latent ability he posessed to the war his leader told him he was in. And fought the enemy the leader pointed out. Until he could see the enemy for himself. Until he could invent new weapons and new strategy in a war no one else could see.

    Who among us doesn’t want a purpose? But that purpose in our guest tonite stepped beyond the hazy twilight between good and evil. Where the evil men can do is wrapped in the flag of help. Where crimes are justified as necessary. Where lying and intimidation and secret action begins to taste sweet on jaded tongues.

    So now we can grasp the force and meaning that filled that once proud head. And the depth of darkness he plumbed to keep it growing.

    We do not know, really, the years and pain it took at the hands of the diminutive successor to blunt our subject, to banish his pride and purpose. To drive him, divided by loyalty to all he had learned and abuse reminiscent of his youth, to escape. To leave still hoping for salvation while leaving the only salvation he knew behind.

    The need to be important remained. The feeling of power and purpose remembered. The pride in a carefully learned system of fantasy still a wall holding back inner darkness.

    And importantly, the harm he did entangles him still. He escaped the fences and the hole but he cannot escape his deeds. The deeds in the real world that harmed real people, no matter how he justified. Such admission would crumble the last self respect he holds fast. To really grasp the harm he has done is the way to his true healing, yet all he can see that way is to lose his family and what happiness he has managed to scrape together, leaving him old and bereft.

    That is a blackness he cannot bear.

    So, with careful internal dialog and reckless writings and cherry picking of doubtful philosophy he steers past a confrontation with his past. And returns in mind to the glory days of power and cleverness, the feel of purpose and the taste of importance. He, having to have an enemy yet again, speaks out about the evil of his former leaders, still entangled in their traps he once helped fashion.

    Yet the real facts of the real world continue. His diminutive former leader has taken up the battle, dealing a war of attrition against the former general, a war that cannot be won.

    Enter stage right, those who see the harm to others. Those who do not care the justification in breaking laws or how righteous the supposed purpose, where there has been harm consequences follow.

    A curious state of suspended justice forms about our player. To admit his crimes under the poison influence of the leaders fantasy and the directions of the small leader may be the way to inner peace, but it is also the way to prison. All too aware the evidence exists, chiefly in the files and testimony of the diminutive leader he now battles. And for his part, that minute personality knows full well the evidence our conflicted warrior can bring, likewise a sure route to a small cell and overly friendly roommate.

    So, perhaps the hung head and bent spine of our player, the figure on the stage now makes sense. A deal to forestall a sense of ruined life, a future of close walls, and to stoke the fires of burning cleverness and importance, a hope for a detente. To play again at the game of power, to agree to hold secrets and offer defense if defense and withheld secrets are likewise paid.

    So he has paid and offered his defense and his justification.

    And to know, if not admitted, that our subject can no more be trusted than his reflection. The rue that bends his head has come to pass, and he waits.

    The stage fades to black. The curtain closes. We find our somber way home wondering the message. Goodnight.

    • MaxSpaceman

      quickly: ” And can we blame him? ”

      Uh- yes. Can. Do.

      He is responsible for his decades of reprehensible, detestable behavior and actions.

      • Michael Leonard Tilse

        Yes we can blame him. For his crimes and unkindness and destruction. Yes.

        I really cannot take him too much to task for the kind of belief that I once espoused. That I did not recognize as a sham for so many years. But the harm I charge to him full measure.

        • Jenyfurrrrr

          Yet the way you wrote it was from a very understanding, human perspective. Not a black-white conviction. I think that’s so much of his struggle and how he so quickly dismisses things he doesn’t want to hear. He wants someone to tell him “you’re just like us, it’s ok we understand and it’s over, it’s not your fault.” Except the “us” from whom he used to seek that comfort were all people who’d told their stories, taken responsibility and, where appropriate, asked forgiveness. AND none of them were seeking a “high position” or mantle of leadership, but found it thrust upon them in response to how they conducted themselves and reached out. Thats always been the rub, the motivations and objectives being selfless vs. entitled.

          • Aurora Aura

            So well said, Jeny-girl ❤ Life has kept me away from the bunker for a few weeks, and I’m disgusted and furious reading this today. On a brighter note, I hope all is well for you and your beautiful family. xoxo

            • Jenyfurrrrr

              I’m so sorry that your return comes on a day where this was the news, but I’m glad you’re back! Thanks so much and hugs to you & yours – hoping life has calmed down a bit so you get some down time for yourself!

    • Interested2

      Wow… That was amazing…..

    • Encore!

    • Juicer77

      Thank you. Powerfully worded.

    • FredEX2

      Absolutely profound.

    • Baby

      Move over Shakespear there’s a new Writer in town..Beautiful .. Bravo.. f5

    • TexasBroad

      Wow. Thank you, MLT.

    • Vaquera

      Bravo

    • Kestrel

      Well done. Thank you.

    • daisy

      Stunned. No sound effects needed.

    • flyonthewall

      one of the best posts I’ve ever read here, thank you

    • chukicita

      Mic drops, bounces once and slowly rolls off the stage. Thank you for this thoughtful and elegant post.

    • gtsix

      Bravo. a thousand times and more…
      https://media.giphy.com/media/5hHOBKJ8lw9OM/giphy.gif

    • Kitz

      We are our deeds… His show no worth.

    • Orglodyte

      I hear and see Rod Serling reading this.

      • Michael Leonard Tilse

        Ah, you have caught me out. In this, he was my conscious inspiration.

        Surely the master would have seen our bleak comedy and fractured players a fit subject.

        • Mark Foster

          MLT…Wow. Nailed it.

        • Orglodyte

          Yay, I win a gold star! A fit subject indeed, with plenty of that trademark irony. The end of LRH’s life feels like the end of a Twilight Zone, doesn’t it? Great work sir.

          • Mooser42001

            Marty Rathbun is going to blow a gasket.

            “This new piece, with its defenses of David Miscavige and its repeated
            sneers at the “anti-Scientology” crowd, is another surprising evolution
            for Marty Rathbun, a figure who continues to fascinate us.” Tony Ortega

            He’s gonna blow all his gaskets. “A figure who continues to fascinate us”. That’s gonna burn.
            The poor schlumph.

    • MarcabExpat
    • Ann B Watson

      I can only reply with feeling not words to your comment.Feeling you are searingly brilliant.❤️

    • Needs an editor.
      Just kidding, well done.

    • Jenyfurrrrr

      Excellent and definitely provides food for thought and makes more sense than other explanations bandied about. Thank you – very well illustrated, especially for one like me that’s never lived it so its a challenge to understand any of his recent paths.

    • Aurora Aura

      Profound. Stunningly well said, sir.

  • richelieu jr

    As far as I’m concerned,mother use of the term “provable bullshit” is proof that Marty is now DMs contrite little mouthpiece.

    Remember how much amusement we got out of that passing strange formulation a few years back?

    Rule of thumb: if Marty squeals and gets belligerent, you know you are close to the truth.

    • Baby

      Rich.. It is right under this post ( 3 days ago) I would copy and past but it is very long.. xo

  • richelieu jr

    The self-proclaimed “Scientology Warrior” is back, folks!

    To truly understand the essence of Marty’s essay, you have to listen carefully after each line when he says “Thank you COB, may I have another?”

  • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

    My surmised reaction to Mary’s article was only WOW!

    Can hardly believe it, but it comes from him.
    “Everyday is a Gift”

  • Jgg2012

    One year from now, Rathbun will say that he never heard of Scientology.

  • CSparks

    Troubling. Very troubling. So, does anybody know if/when he ceased doing “indie” auditing sessions? One would *assume* (of course, we know about that word) that if he began to view LRH’s work as a long con, that he would cease any of its practices, even if they were a money-maker. Just leaves me very curious.

  • GhostOfFloBarnette

    Why would anyone jump on a sinking ship?

  • Cult leaders, members and some ex-members suffer from black/white thinking. It’s either this or that and if it’s not this then it must be that. Unfortunately for them the world is not as simple as that. Yes there is black at one end of a spectrum and white at the other and in between, countless shades of grey. So when you think you are right, oh so right, about some subject of interest, remember, next week, month, year, you might be horribly wrong. The reed that bends will not break. This comment is not directed specifically at any cult leader, living or dead, member or ex-member. Well, ok, maybe one or two 😉

    • FredEX2

      Morning Pete. Well said.

    • Mockingbird

      I have yet to find pure white, but there are some black hearts out there. And totally evil motherfuckers. Hubbard exemplified this. Miscavige ? Rathbun ?

    • Ann B Watson

      Yes I was thinking about the shades of grey the other evening.I regret parts I played in Sea Org and what was done to me.Yet the older I become,I am getting in the habit of leaving the door to my mind open just a tad until I know who is on the other side ,instead of slamming it shut against any and all comers as I did when first in Sea Org.It was Ron’s Way or the RPF.I never want to be the Sea Org definition of make it go right again.It was black hat white hat in the Sea Org and that became part of the trouble with it I feel.I like your comments.Thank you.❤️

    • Lynette Byrnes

      You are an extremely cool dude.

  • Adrien Marcel Drea

    money talks is an american saying ?