SUPPORT THE UNDERGROUND BUNKER
You can either make a one-time donation to the site via Paypal...

...or you can subscribe and get billed monthly:

FOLLOW ME ON
SUBSCRIBE TO OUR
E-MAIL LIST
To join our e-mail list & get daily updates on new stories, e-mail us at newstory@tonyortega.org.
RSS Feed
Click here to add The Underground Bunker to your RSS Reader

Scientology trying to salvage its derelict Narconon flagship as new training center

[Narconon Arrowhead during better times, with David Miscavige (center) and Luke Catton (left)]

Rod Keller helps us keep an eye on Narconon, Scientology’s drug rehab network, and he has a surprising new development today. For a few years, we’ve been reporting that Narconon’s flagship facility, Narconon Arrowhead in eastern Oklahoma, has dwindled to just a handful of customers after numerous patient deaths and high-profile lawsuits. Now, in a move seemingly acknowledging the inevitable, Scientology is announcing that it’s throwing in the towel and turning it into a training center. Rod decided to key off that news to give us a general assessment of where Narconon stands now.

Scientology has launched an initiative known as the Narconon Arrowhead Expansion Project to revitalize the site. The facility in Canadian, Oklahoma is promoted as the “Flagship Narconon,” much like Flag Land Base in Clearwater is the primary center for completing the OT levels. The facility has fallen on hard times since the death of several patients there and the accompanying lawsuits. A source close to the facility tells us there were recently 10 patients in the program, although the building is designed to hold 200.

 

 
This news prompted us to take a look at the program, where it is succeeding and where it has failed.

 

[Narconon locations]

Scientology tends towards symmetry. Just as Flag is the international center for processing, each continent has an Advanced Org, such as Saint Hill in the UK, or PAC base in Los Angeles. The same system was announced in 2015 for Narconons, with Arrowhead as the international center, and a series of new Continental Narconons. Nine were planned, the “celebrity” Narconon in Ojai California, Trout Run in Maryland, Villa Victoria in Mexico, Gauteng province in South Africa, Denmark, Canada, Australia, the UK and Nepal.

 

[Continental Narconon Africa has not opened]

[Narconon Trout Run has not opened]

Narconon’s map shows that Ojai and Nepal are no longer considered Continental Narconons, although both have opened since the announcement. Villa Victoria, MΓΈrkΓΈv Denmark and UK have opened, leaving four that never opened. Trout Run has been turned down by county officials, two planned facilities in Canada have been denied permission to open, and Scientology now plans to sell the compound in Yarramaland Australia, having been denied permits there. The existence of the African Continental facility on the map is a fiction, the address of the building has never been announced.

 

[Blu-by-the-Sea, a former Narconon in Destin, Florida]

[John Travolta and Kelly Preston at a Narconon Hawaii fundraiser]

The map shows the loss of Narconon Trois-Rivières, ordered closed in 2012, and Narconon Alberta in Calgary which vanished more quietly. In the U.S., Narconon Georgia was closed by authorities in 2013, and Narconon Gulfcoast has left Scientology to operate independently as Blu-by-the-Sea. Narconon remains strong in the American south with the new Narconon Suncoast in Clearwater, as well as sites in Louisiana and South Texas. The map shows five facilities in the west but there are actually four, with the defection of the South Lake Tahoe and Watsonville from Narconon to become independent. Despite celebrity fundraising, Narconon Hawaii is no more. The map shows no centers in Michigan, and sources tell us that Narconon Freedom Center in Albion may soon leave the network if it has not already.

 

[Narconon Cancun has closed]

[Narconon Mazatlan has closed]

The map shows the Continental Narconon, plus five others in Mexico. There are only three, in QuerΓ©taro, Sonora and Tijuana. Narconons in Cancun and Mazatlan are closed. The lone Narconon in South America is near Bogota, Colombia.

 

[Narconon Los Molinos, near Madrid]

[Narconon Kiev opened in 2015]

Narconon is strongest in Europe. Supporting the Continental Narconon are two centers in Spain, five in Italy, one in the Netherlands, one in Hungary, one in Macedonia, one in Sweden, one in Ukraine and four in Russia. There have been no recent closures in Europe, and several of the facilities have opened recently.

 

[Narconon Turkey]

[Narconon Israel]

Narconon Turkey has recently moved from Ankara to a new location in Edremit along the western coast. The previous location was disbanded when the Executive Director was jailed for dealing heroin and having sex with patients. The prime witness against him subsequently recanted and he was released, but is no longer with Narconon. The map also shows Narconon Israel, still operating quietly in a residential area in the town of Zeitan.

[Narconon Cape Town, closed]

Narconon Egypt is the only facility in Africa. The Continental Narconon never opened, and Narconon Cape Town has been closed for many years. Narconon Taiwan and Melbourne Australia are still in operation.

Despite hard times for the Flagship Narconon at Arrowhead, numerous facility defections and closures, the Narconon network is maintaining operations, particularly in Europe. Newly opened Scientology “Ideal Orgs” and Continental Narconons are instructed to foster the founding of new facilities, and we can expect new attempts to open Narconons in Canada, South Africa and Australia. One source tells us of a plan to open a Narconon Ireland, but the lack of detail tells us this is not imminent.

 
— Rod Keller

 
——————–

Scientology disconnection, a reminder

Bernie Headley has not seen his daughter Stephanie in 4,806 days.
Jamie Sorrentini Lugli has not seen her father Irving in 2,563 days.
Quailynn McDaniel has not seen her brother Sean in 1,909 days.
Claudio and Renata Lugli have not seen their son Flavio in 2,403 days.
Sara Goldberg has not seen her daughter Ashley in 1,443 days.
Lori Hodgson has not seen her son Jeremy in 1,155 days.
Marie Bilheimer has not seen her mother June in 681 days.
Joe Reaiche has not seen his daughter Alanna Masterson in 4,770 days
Derek Bloch has not seen his father Darren in 1,910 days.
Cindy Plahuta has not seen her daughter Kara in 2,230 days.
Claire Headley has not seen her mother Gen in 2,205 days.
Ramana Dienes-Browning has not seen her mother Jancis in 561 days.
Mike Rinder has not seen his son Benjamin in 4,863 days.
Brian Sheen has not seen his daughter Spring in 970 days.
Skip Young has not seen his daughters Megan and Alexis for 1,372 days.
Mary Kahn has not seen her son Sammy in 1,245 days.
Lois Reisdorf has not seen her son Craig in 826 days.
Phil and Willie Jones have not seen their son Mike in 1,331 days.
Mary Jane Sterne has not seen her daughter Samantha in 1,575 days.
Kate Bornstein has not seen her daughter Jessica in 12,684 days.

 
——————–

3D-UnbreakablePosted by Tony Ortega on July 9, 2017 at 07:00

E-mail tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Our book, The Unbreakable Miss Lovely: How the Church of Scientology tried to destroy Paulette Cooper, is on sale at Amazon in paperback, Kindle, and audiobook versions. We’ve posted photographs of Paulette and scenes from her life at a separate location. Reader Sookie put together a complete index. More information about the book, and our 2015 book tour, can also be found at the book’s dedicated page.

The Best of the Underground Bunker, 1995-2016 Just starting out here? We’ve picked out the most important stories we’ve covered here at the Undergound Bunker (2012-2016), The Village Voice (2008-2012), New Times Los Angeles (1999-2002) and the Phoenix New Times (1995-1999)

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of L.A. attorney and former church member Vance Woodward
UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists
GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice
SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

Other links: Shelly Miscavige, ten years gone | The Lisa McPherson story told in real time | The Cathriona White stories | The Leah Remini ‘Knowledge Reports’ | Hear audio of a Scientology excommunication | Scientology’s little day care of horrors | Whatever happened to Steve Fishman? | Felony charges for Scientology’s drug rehab scam | Why Scientology digs bomb-proof vaults in the desert | PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer | The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill | Scientology boasts about assistance from Google | The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

Share Button
Print Friendly, PDF & Email
  • Jimmy3

    Sounds like the Church of Scientology is addicted to FAIL.
    I don’t think Scientology can help them with that.

    • Mockingbird

      They will use Scientology until it works ! Or death ! Whichever comes first !

      • One of the reasons they are declining is that, in the absence of new recruits, death is catching up on them.

        He must wonder why, since most people put off their meeting with him for as long as possible, so many Scientologists turn their back upon modern medicine and are so flippant about ‘dropping the body’ – until they meet him, of course.

    • chukicita

      Your lights are on, but you’re not home
      Your mind is not your own
      Your heart sweats, your body shakes
      Another fail is what it takes

      You can’t sleep, you can’t eat
      There’s no doubt, you’re in deep
      Your throat is tight, you can’t breathe
      Another fail is all you need

      Whoa, you like to think that you’re immune to the stuff, oh yeah
      It’s closer to the truth to say you can’t get enough
      You know you’re gonna have to face it, you’re addicted to fail…

      • John Prince

        But I love Robert Palmer !

  • just another guy out there

    Good morning Bunker! let’s get those pesky little drug addicted BT’s moving this morning-

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWCb-GlbuJg&index=7&list=PLZSzoXW96eCu4ITuzCuqLZP007Su7Fvx8

  • Kestrel

    In addition to the lodge building that can hold 200 people, Narconon Arrowhead includes a considerable number of duplex cabins along the shore of Lake Eufala.

    • Jimmy3

      What kinda buds they grow there? Some that diesel fire? Some that stanky kanky skunky kunk? What’s up?

    • Kestrel

      Wow! Narconon Arrowhead is running on fumes. A new satellite view shows the parking lot at the lodge is almost empty. The last time I went by, there were at least a dozen cars there. Also, almost none of the cabins appear to be occupied.

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/fc269b5719c7cd4f4bb59874d53fb9cbeeedcbaa26491bcc2c29cdf1dc3f0395.jpg

      • chukicita

        Babywatch cabins?

        • Kestrel

          Probably staff quarters. What little view one can get from the public road, the cabins are really nice. I suspect management were housed in the cabins off the private road you can barely see in the upper right hand corner because that one’s closer to town.

      • Kestrel
        • Bradley Greenwood

          They seem to be spread out as much as possible, for illusion’s-sake.

          • Kestrel

            They used to have two white vans. One is parked as far away from the building as possible, and may not be running. There’s a gray van closer in, four cars near the entrance
            (which, I suspect, are staff) and four cars away from the entrance (which could be clients or abandoned). The parking lot slopes up quite a bit from the first parking area.

      • PickAnotherID

        So when is the new KOA supposed to open on that site??

        • Bradley Greenwood

          Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! That’s the new front for money-making!

  • Narconon UK is a bit of a cipher.

    It’s a small facility that exists in a small, densely-populated nation with a well-regulated and free health-care system. They can’t get away with the abuses they do elsewhere, and certainly can’t hide their facility in a remote area because we just don’t have remote areas in the way that the US, for example, does.

    I suspect that the place is only used only by Scientologists who can be relied upon not to cause bad PR – that it’s a glorified ‘purif’ centre. However, there is no way of knowing, although there is no evidence that they have any of the required licences. If anyone has completed the Narconon programme in the UK they are uncharacteristically quiet about it.

    It’s quite possible that they are only there so that Miscavige can claim a Narconon presence in England, because it is the home of Saint Hill Manor, where Hubbard lived and ‘worked’.

    • org-rat 1003

      That puts what I said into perspective, I didn’t think of it like that, ‘glorified purif center’ is exactly what it seemed like, in retrospect.

      • I suppose the new place was well before your time… but nothing has really changed except the PR.

    • if that’s the case, then it is – at least – not making a lot of money for the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology, and that has got to be a good thing.

      I have the same feeling about the Danish “ideal” narCONon. At least that one got its ads thrown off public transport advertising space (and the newspaper article celebrating this mentioned that the narCONon was not approved for referrals from the state, so that’s good, too).

      https://www.information.dk/indland/2016/09/movia-fjerner-busreklamer-afvaenningscenter-forbindelser-scientology

      • I got one desperate online venture closed down by the UK Advertising Standards Authority https://scicrit.wordpress.com/2014/10/09/narconon-in-the-uk-part-three-the-advertising-standards-authority-takes-an-interest-in-narconon-scotland/ and established that almost all of the claims made by Narconon (drugs stored in fat cells, ‘flashbacks’ et.al.) are against the rules that they most strictly enforce concerning medical claims.

        If people in the UK would complain about any publicity material that they see (including ‘the truth about drugs’ leaflets which make similar claims (or forward scans to me) we could close that down.

        One of things that protects Narconon is that it is a front group, which people don’t know. Instead, they give it the benefit of the doubt because it sounds like a worthy cause. If they understood what it was and complained in the right way to the right people, they could do it terminal damage.

  • salin

    So, one ideal org in Bogata and one Narconon center in Columbia – and all of this (fabulates the Co$) has driven violent crime and the drug rate down by 90% in Columbia. Right.

    Thanks for the report Mr. Keller, aside from the resilience of the Narconon network in Europe, the whole scam seems to be quietly diminishing elsewhere. That is good news.

    • chukicita

      Yes, the current relative calm in Colombia had nothing to do with the peace talks in Havana, and is all due to Scientology. And I’m sure it will be the fault of a misplaced semicolon when the reparations don’t happen the way they are spelled out and it hits the fan all over again.

  • Baby

    Shades of grey..

    Narconon ..Families desperate for help for their addicted loved ones.. Bullshit and abuse and neglect and yes sometimes death is offered. People Wake Up. It is 2017 the internet is alive.

    Original art/ enhanced by editing.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/56752a51fc3904abffab2a5b69164ac7a5db57f2290e9a1fbefb687de0d7577b.jpg

  • Baby
  • BraveBloggers

    Thank you for the info Rod. A weak comparison would be like a poisonous spider, you want to know where it’s at so you can warn others.

  • Bert Allen

    May Narconon be eliminated from the U.S. and ultimately the world.

  • The failure of Narconon facilities is obviously a good thing. The problem is that, in Scientology, nothing can ever be closed. Re-purposing Arrowhead as a ‘training centre’ is one way to avoid public failure. However, there are others, and some of them worry me.

    We have recently heard of a mentally ill person confined in a remote cabin by a Scientologist for money. Scientology now has lots of largely redundant and redundant buildings which could be used to ‘disappear’ inconvenient people.

    This is nothing new. I have a book*, published in 2008 which was written by someone from a Scientology family with bipolar disorder, who was ‘put away’ for a considerable time in just this way. Scientologists just can’t be trusted with remote compounds.

    * “The Psychiatrist who cured the Scientologist” by Aaron David Gottfried.

    • Mockingbird

      Gee, what could they ever do that is bad with a remote compound !!? After all, how bad can anyone that is recognized as a church be !!? If we just trust the ecclesiastical authority won’t everything be fine.

      • Tracy Schmitz

        remote compound bad? UH, the biggest elephant in the room GOLD BASE!!!!..

        • That’s bad enough. I’m thinking about how the CofS might re-purpose a lot of redundant sites like that…. and I can’t come up with anything good.

        • Chewkacca

          Elephant? More like dinosaur. GNOOURF!

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            I give up. What does GNOOURF mean?

            • Chewkacca

              Partially-suppressed Wookiee laughter. Full laughter is honk, snort, honk snort.
              WAAUUGN!

        • Mockingbird

          According to David Miscavige all ecclesiastical activities there are protected under the first amendment. And to say or think otherwise makes you a bigot !

          • Tracy Schmitz

            TOM: uh, dave, you know i was wondering with all the motorcycle racing and skeet shooting and hanging out at each other’s homes and watching movies together and working out together and going to car races together and you being best man at 2 of my weddings to those wogs and sps, and going to vegas to gamble is this okay?

            DAVE: trust me, tom, would and have i ever lied to you in any way? remotely? trust me, all of this falls under religious activities because you know your doing this with ME, a religious leader, so it’s all good! besides, all religious leaders do this with their members, all of their members, its’ quite normal and yes first amendment protected!

            TOM: well your right master, i mean boss, i mean buddy!..

    • mockingbird

      I would like to see that book. I have read amazing stories about the treatment of Scientology cult members in institutions. I wonder if this is one of the cases I read about.

      • It was self-published by a 19-year-old lad after he escaped Scientology, was treated for bipolar disorder by a (gasp) psychiatrist and was relieved of the terrible symptoms of that condition for the first time in his life.

        Previously, he was ‘treated’ with ‘the tech’ and suffered.

        It’s quite rare now and, with public attention, the prices of such things are going up. if you are really interested you can contact me via https://scicrit.wordpress.com/contact-us/

  • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

    You should never send anyone to a Narconon, in particular don’t send them to the one here in Louisiana. That place is out in the woods in a little hick town called Denham Springs and I truly fear for people that get taken out into the sticks for “drug treatment.” Don’t let them lie to you, it’s in the backwoods and that’s not where you want someone you love if they need help.

    https://media.tenor.com/images/a8b0a72b4d23609c7f30b3ff2c3e9095/tenor.gif

    • Mockingbird

      I hear banjos.

    • Jimmy3

      They got that Breaking Bad there? Some that blue? What’s up?

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        I’d say No, but nothing would surprise me up there.

        • Jimmy3

          Magnets, yo

          • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

            Leave the magnets. Bring a frog light, hip waders, bug spray and a shotgun. LOL

            Seriously, those woods up there are creepy as fuck. *shudder*

            • Jimmy3

              I was talking about Breaking Bad, but now I’m picturing True Detective

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              Now you’re on the right track. Even Walter White would go up there an be like…..Nah. πŸ˜€

            • What’s a frog light?

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              An extremely bright flashlight, usually pretty good-sized, massive high beam that they use when they go “frogging” – fishing for frogs. They hunt for them at night and that light allows them to see their eyes. You wouldn’t see them otherwise, they’re well hidden in the bayous.

            • TU πŸ™‚

            • Chewkacca

              The eyes of the frogs are reflective. If they are facing you, they light up. Alligators also. WAAUGN!

    • Science Doc

      I hear Bon Temps Louisiana is full of vampires.

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        So I’m told, but that’s a bit more eastward around the cemeteries of the Vieux de Carre. ; )

        • Draco

          Your cemeteries totally fascinate me. I’ve just gone into one on Google maps and you can cruise around inside on street view. Seriously spooky looking place!

          • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

            I love to take someone to one during Halloween. πŸ˜€ Gives it that extra creepiness. But, we’ll always have cemeteries like that because you can’t be buried underground here. On an up note, they have the BEST jazz funerals. πŸ™‚

            • Draco

              πŸ˜€
              There seem to be some “2 story” tombs in there. And one upstairs tomb has a tiny balcony in front of it. I’m like WTF? Are they expecting the guy to come out for some midnight air and to take in the view?!

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              BAHAHAHAHAHA!! Those are mostly decorative but some of the fancier mausoleum’s have doors that you can actually go into. They’ll generally have a little bench or something next to the cement encased coffin. But you’re talking 10’s of thousands of dollars for something like that. A basic one is not much different than a general gravestone. You’re just in it rather than under it.

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        Doc, was it you that told me you saw the Roger Waters Us & Them concert?

        • Science Doc

          I wish. I saw Roger Waters at Desert Trip last fall. Possibly the best concert I’ve ever seen. My expectation was that it would be the weakest of the six performances. On the contrary, it was about the greatest incitement to revolution I’ve ever seen. I saw the Roger Waters-less Pink Floyd in about 1987, and it didn’t have this edge.

          • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

            We went last night and I was half expecting to be bored when he was playing his solo stuff but there was not a minute that wasn’t cool. The entirety of the group that put this show together did an incredible job. And if our current WH resident has you upset, it was a good place to be. πŸ™‚

            • Science Doc

              He had a massive pig balloon being paraded through the audience with some pithy Trump statements on it. About half of his new album reminds me of the best stuff on The Final Cut and The Wall.

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              That’s pretty much what we saw too. The crowd loved his roasting trump. It was such a good show. The laser ‘Dark Side of the Moon’ pyramid was very cool. πŸ™‚

    • PickAnotherID
      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        Thanks Mississippi. We’ll forever be linked to those clowns. πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚

  • Xenu’s son.

    A new Birthday Game:Who is shrinking the fastest.My guesses:
    Network:1. Wise 2. Narconon. 3 Applied Scholastics.

    • Xenu’s son.

      Or:Delivery group:1.Field auditors.2.Missions 3. Orgs 4. AO’s 5. FSO.
      Continent: 1.The US.2.Africa.3.Australia.4. Europe 4.South America.6.Italy.7.Asia.Your rankings?

  • Jon S
    • Draco

      Haha! And keep Luke as far away from his littleness as possible!

      • Jon S

        yes – they should have made him stand back a little bit. like ten feet.

    • I wouldn’t have spotted that.

      I’m 5′ 10″, and my friend’s 13-year-old lad already towers over me, which we both think is hilarious. I can understand why very short men might be a little sensitive – but not the the extent that every photograph you appear in has to be posed so carefully.

      The woman first in from the left seems to have picked up on this leant and forward, like a chicken looking for grain, to make herself look a little shorter.

      • Tracy Schmitz

        oh you mean, like T.C. wearing shoe lifts whenever he’s out in public? dress shoes, tennis shoes, it doesn’t matter! when oh when is that “clear” non reactive mind gong to make him not care? when oh when is he, high level OT, going to have the powers over “mest” to add some inches to his body?.. bummer, i’ve spent decades and millions of dollars, ruined my reputation, lost 3 wives over it and being a dead beat father to the only 1 of my 3 children who are NOT a fellow cultie, towards my “religion” and the superpowers haven’t yet kicked in?! (overflowing sarcasm!)..

        • I suppose that even real superpowers don’t address insecurity. All you can do about that is acknowledge it , live with it – and especially avoid anyone who exploits your insecurity with over-the-top flattery.

          • Tracy Schmitz

            never mind, not having ANY superpowers (if it wasn’t so outrageous, insane and disturbing it would be indeed fall down laughable) but if he was a “clear”, truly a “clear” (which of course there is no such thing and literally humanly impossible to be) he wouldn’t care or have insecurity about ANYTHING right?.. by wearing his “lifts” he certainly may be acknowledging it, but he isn’t “living with it”

            • Imagined superpowers are the next best thing – especially if so many people celebrate you as if you really do have them.

            • Tracy Schmitz

              so you know (the high level OT person) you don’t have superpowers, but because so many butt kissers/love bombers around you celebrate that you DO have them, that overrides your OWN knowledge of yourself?.. or is it, you know you don’t have them, but you are “celebrated” that you do have them by others, so that “celebrated” is more important to you then the truth? the truth you KNOW of yourself? wow is a understatement…

            • For some people, social acceptance is reality. They don’t have the knowledge or the inclination to find out the difference.

              Plato said that “The unexamined life is not worth living”, and Scientology is full of people taking the word of others about everything and living unexamined lives.

            • Tracy Schmitz

              very interesting comment once_born… i can’t comprehend it myself, but still all in all a interesting mindset that someone in scientology MUST have and those not in scientology by as you said “social acceptance (by anyone?) is reality”…

            • I know people whose ‘convictions’ depend entirely on what opinion is currently fashionable, and transformed from preaching tolerance to being nasty bigots during the brexit disaster.

              One minute is was ‘all men are brothers’ and in the next ‘immigrants’ were responsible for every bad thing.

              We are all social animals but some of us comply more than others.

      • April

        My daughter is 14 years old and she’s 6’2″ tall.
        I’m 5’7″ and it’s just plain weird looking up to her all the time.

        • John Prince

          When I was in the Fourth Grade at Elementary School I was taller than my Teacher πŸ˜ƒ. .
          O.k. She was a little Korean Lady but the Kids in my class and I thought that was Funny.
          I grew up to 6’4″ ..I’ve always loved being a Tall Guy, definatly has it’s advantages πŸ’ͺ

        • I just find it funny. If he gets much taller, I will be able to look up the lad’s nose.
          Genetics being digital, his brother is quite small for his age. – he’s the scrapper.

      • mockingbird

        I think there is a threshold of awareness. I too am 5’10” and people have usually told me I was a little talk. If you don’t slouch you look about two inches taller. If you are very short or very tall it won’t help.

        I have known men from about 5’9″ in to accept their height.

        Some from about 5’7″ and under are sensitive or even defensive or belligerent.

        I have seen two guys that are within a half inch or so argue day after day over who is taller.

        Both are usually around 5’6″. It doesn’t matter to me but at 5’10” I am never in the shortest half of any group.

        • Yes. You don’t realise how complicated these things are until you actually think about them.

          After I wrote that, by coincidence, I was around the lad’s house. We met, I looked at him and said “stop growing”, and then we both fell about laughing. His Gran wandered past, shaking her head.

          It’s just a shame that we waste our time over this kind of thing when there’s more important issues out there.

          • mockingbird

            It is in part instinctive social behavior, I think.

            The funny thing about looking at human behavior and influence is the more I look at the evidence the less room I see for a questionable hypothesis that free will exists at all.

            We have many biases that all assume free will but proof ? Still looking…

            • Humans are unique in that we can understand and acknowledge our own biases and change our world-view and our behaviour accordingly.

              Most of the time we operate according to what psychologists call ‘heuristics’ – rules of thumb that have not been carefully thought out. That’s not because we lack the ability to choose freely – it’s because we don’t have the time to carefully weigh every decision we make.

              The secret is to recognise the important decisions and consider them carefully – to know when to switch off the autopilot and use our heads.

            • mockingbird

              I have heard different hypotheses on this. The existence of free will to any degree is to my knowledge unproven.

              It has been disputed and no definite proof it absolutely does or does not exist is available. Some see the proof it doesn’t exist in data already gathered, but I am not quite there.

              If rock solid proof it absolutely doesn’t exist is presented it will be extremely difficult to communicate or accept as we have extraordinary biases that assume it does exist.

            • The existence of biases which prevent us from ever seeing the truth is unfalsifiable. We can never show that this is not so, because the opposition can always claim that this is what they expected – you would think that, because of your biases. It’s a circular argument, that’s best put aside.

              Also, looking for “rock solid proof” is the wrong way of going about things. Better to construct a theory, and then try to knock it down. The longer is survives, the more confidence you can have in it, and if it does fall down now and again, you can use what you have learned to build a better one.

              So far, humans have learned a lot – including much about their own cognitive biases . This knowledge is built into the scientific method – for example trials are double-blinded so that investigators can’t unconsciously ‘adjust’ the data more in line with their preconceptions.

              That’s pretty good progress. The rest is a matter for philosophical argument.

  • Mockingbird

    I am very happy Narconon is at the brink of extinction. The harm it has caused including numerous deaths is truly a tragedy for many, many people. Families scrape, beg and borrow every penny they can to help save their loved ones from drug and alcohol addiction and they get betrayed.

    If they knew Hubbard’s character and alcohol drug abuse they probably would run away from Scientology and its front groups. I think a particular revulsion is the flavor each segment of Scientology has for itself. It’s like the Baskin Robbins of abominations.

    • Tracy Schmitz

      and by now in 2017 there is NO EXCUSE FOR ANYONE NOT TO KNOW about hubbard’s “character and drug use”…

      • Mockingbird

        Tracy there is no magic date after which I can assume every single human being must have received the correct information to know someone or something is bad. Life doesn’t work that way.

        Every single human being doesn’t have information that you agree with inserted into them by media or have your values.

        Just because you or I would now look at critical information on Scientology and believe it doesn’t mean everyone will or should live exactly as we would.

        I think you frankly should look at human beings in general and see that we are largely irrational. I don’t mean crazy, I mean biased.

        One of the strongest biases known is the fundamental attribution error. We tend to see negative behavior by ourselves as having complex causes involving external factors and the negative behavior of others, especially people we don’t like or oppose, as being a reflection of individual character.

        Additionally we have the bias blindspot and can see biases and poor decisions in others far better than in ourselves.

        If you are saying “there is no excuse for anyone not knowing …” that is not even admitting there are factors and circumstances you don’t know or understand. You don’t. I don’t. No one knows everything.

        • Tracy Schmitz

          hmm, well then let me be MORE clear (no pun intended) if anyone is posting on youtube, the internet, wherever for all the world to see defending tom cruise and thus scientology, then they sure as heck better know what the heck they are talking about! that is the RATIONAL ADULT mindset! you don’t post and comment on something,someone you don’t know or have the information on and you certainly do not post and comment and think your opinion (without a shred of information) is NOT opinion, but FACT and in fact is equal in fact to those who HAVE done the “homework” .. i’m sorry but to me, this isn’t a human trait, but a mental illness of some degree…never mind, when there are those who DO have the facts, and have done the “homework” and actually list those facts and how they did their homework, and others either don’t believe it or don’t believe them and yet THEY are the ones who don’t know anything and even sometimes ADMIT that they don’t know anything about the subject! that is insanity! THAT IS what i meant by “no excuse not knowing in 2017″… IF you have the interest and time to post a comment good or bad about cruise, scientology and their connection, on the internet AND have the physical and technological capability to find out and have information to back up your comments then there is no excuse to not not know or not to do so…..

          i’ve always said one of the greatest faults humans can do to one another (it’s not a fault, but so many think it is!) is tell someone they are WRONG, even when they know they are wrong, you (meaning other people and the world) better not TELL THEM they are wrong!.. why people have no sense of shame and apology and understanding on this i don’t know…. if i’m wrong, and someone can point out how i am wrong, and with actual facts and information, shouldn’t I/ all of us be glad? but no, instead, so many not only don’t believe it, the person, but gets mad at that person! “how dare you!” thinking…

          it’s like the person who cuts you off or does something bad to you while driving, you honk your horn at them and they flip you off? they flip YOU off! how dare you getting mad at them when THEY ARE THE ONES who caused the accident or possible accident and are in the wrong!…is it simply human narcissism and stubbornness and whatever else? i don’t know….perhaps this goes hand in hand with the loss of shame and guilt and conscience and simply “i’m sorry”?… in our society..

          okay, i’m sorry i’m rambling….

      • John Prince

        I see what You mean ✌..no excuse for anyone(who may be considering joining co$)not to know..

        • Tracy Schmitz

          unless one was born into it, OR lives in a cave, has no access to the internet, tv or print, there is no excuse.. i mean we ARE talking about people possibly entering a “religion” you know something that is usually very important to someone’s life and for some how they LIVE their lives.. if you take a moment to find out what kind of car you want, where you want to live, what kind of house or apartment you want, what kind of pet you want, where you want to join a gym at, and on and on! you sure as heck, better look into all the information on a religion you want to join! ESPECIALLY a small new “religion” like scientology… i’m sorry, but no excuse NOT to! is it any wonder that i’m sure a large number of the population thinks that especially NOW if anyone joins scientology, they have no one to blame but themselves?…

          • John Prince

            You’d have to be woefully uninformed AND apathetic to join co$ these days, Yes, only families desperatly seeking a drug treatment programm COULD be less vigilent or too distraught to realize they’re being sucked in to a nasty scam, slickly packaged to look legit.
            narconon IS scientology, NOT a front Group! Every dime they swindle goes to co$ ,who also pay for the settlements for all these Lawsuits that keep getting silenced..narconon and all other “branches” should NOT be allowed to go by any other name than co$. The masquerade IS being exposed, however,no small thanks to Tony O & his troublemaking Friends I might add ☝

    • John Prince

      Excuse me for asking a seemingly dumb question but was narconon featured already on “Aftermath..”?
      (Season 1 wasn’t shown in Germany, I’ve yet to see an Episode)
      If not,I would loudly suggest that Leah&Mike do a tear-ass special Episode,including the 30 Lawsuits that have been settled with NDA’s that nobody’s talking about.Time to rip the Lid off this deadly Scam.

  • Volunteer SP

    I’m addicted to reading here at the Bunker and have been doing so for years.

    Can Narconon help me with that?

    • ze moo

      Hello VSP, I too am a bunkerholic. There is no cure, only the yearly convention will help you commiserate with other bunkerholics. .

      • Volunteer SP

        Well, I missed Denver, but will make it to the next convention if possible! I heard its in Chicago and I’ve been wanting to get there for many years to feed my other addiction, which would be pizza. I heard they’ve got some of the best in the country.

      • bixntram

        Keep comin’ back; easy does it; live and let live; one day at a time; take what you want and leave the rest; stick with the winners.

    • Draco

      Hello VSP. My name is Draco and I’m a bunkerholic.
      I’m sorry to tell you, very few of us graduate…

    • MissCandle

      The Quicksand that is The Bunker.

    • Jon S

      The first step in any recovery is recognising you have a problem. So well done. That’s a great leap forward. Thank you for sharing, now go collect your “desire chip” and keep coming back!

  • Science Doc

    I’ve been by Narconon Sunshine Summit/Warner Springs twice in the last week. The last six or eight times I’ve been past there, within the last month, there appears to be further decline. For nearly a year observations of people supported six or seven clients and a similar number, or slightly greater, staff. The place has become really quiet recently, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s just a few staffers at this point. Three years ago there was consistently a lot of activity at the place, with occasional observations of a dozen or more clients moving as a group, and up to 20 vehicles. The vehicle count is down to the three vans and typically four cars or pickups.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Thank you Science Doc!

  • Baby
    • Robert Eckert

      I know a victim of that Albion place, used to come to my regular AA meeting, and if I’d mention having read anything recently about Per Wickstrom getting into more legal trouble (the place changes its name and location every so often but it’s always Per Wickstrom in charge) he’d go on a rant about how that guy needs to die in prison.

      • Baby

        There are many many involved in this dangerous cult that should die in prison Robert.. Yep..

  • PickAnotherID

    There is something strange going on with NN Gulf Coast and Blu by the Sea. The last IRS Form 990 I can find is from 2015, but the IRS still shows NN Gulf Coast as active at the exact same address as BBBS:

    EIN: 432031325
    NARCONON GULF COAST INC
    % RANDY ROSS
    3399 SCENIC HIGHWAY 98
    DESTIN FL 32541-4748
    GEN: 0000 (Not part of a Group Exemption)
    03 (501(c)3 Exempt)

    FL’s Business Entity listing shows BBBS as a ‘for profit’, with the only real difference in the info being the EIN and Deborah Ross as the contact:

    Florida Limited Liability Company
    BLU BY THE SEA, LLC

    Filing Information
    Document Number L14000007511
    FEI/EIN Number 46-4516802
    Date Filed 01/14/2014
    Effective Date 01/10/2014
    State FL
    Status ACTIVE
    Last Event LC AMENDMENT
    Event Date Filed 01/29/2014
    Event Effective Date NONE

    Principal Address
    3399 SCENIC HWY 98 EAST
    DESTIN, FL 32541 FL

    Mailing Address
    3399 SCENIC HWY 98 EAST
    DESTIN, FL 32541 FL

    Registered Agent Name & Address
    ROSS, DEBORAH V
    3399 SCENIC HIGHWAY 98 E
    DESTIN, FL 32541

    Authorized Person(s) Detail Name & Address

    Title MGR
    ROSS, DEBORAH V
    3399 SCENIC HIGHWAY 98 E
    DESTIN, FL 32541

    Title AMBR
    ROSS, HERBERT R
    4554 WOODWIND DR
    DESTIN, FL 32541

    • Baby

      Things that make you go Hmmmmm? Good find ID

    • chukicita

      Holy cal-mag. I just found this listing (likely self-entered) for Blu by the Sea on Psychology Today’s rehab site.

      https://treatment.psychologytoday.com/rms/name/Blu+by+the+Sea_Destin_Florida_162628

      Note the reference to “psychologists, addiction specialists and masters level therapists” in the treatment process description:

      “****The Blu by the Sea Treatment Process**** There are Four basic steps
      to addiction treatment. These involve medical detox, reducing and
      eliminating drug or alcohol cravings, developing new life skills and
      creating a plan of action to continue a life free from drugs. Each step
      deals with a specific part of addiction in a personal and individual
      way.

      *MEDICAL DETOX* The first step of treatment begins with a period of
      substance detox or medication management. Clients receive a customized
      detox program designed by our medical director; with an emphasis on
      safety and comfort.

      *Eliminate Cravings* After the detox process,
      psychologists, addiction specialists and masters level therapists work
      with you or your loved one to eliminate drug cravings by skillfully and
      carefully breaking the cycle of addiction. Vitamins, exercise and spa
      therapies are used together during this phase to gradually decrease the
      physical craving for the substance.

      *New Life Skills* This is done
      through a hands-on experience; and one-on-one counseling.

      *New Life
      Plan* The final phase of the process is to create an individualized blue
      print or New Life Plan for each client that replaces the drug and/or
      alcohol addiction.”

  • org-rat 1003

    In East Grinstead around 1990, my mother worked for Narcanon, and it consisted of one two-storied little house called ‘the unit’ (if it consisted of more than that elsewhere in East Grinstead I wasn’t aware of it, but I was only nine) with a little sauna in the Garden. After school I would go to the unit and just hang around. There were fairly nice people there: I think they were just Scientologists ‘detoxifying’. Technically though, my mother worked for ‘Say No To Drugs’, which was what Narcanon called itself when it had to do anything PR related: in other words, even Scientology’s front groups needed there own front groups in East Grinstead. If there was any kind of boom period in Scientology around this time it’s because after Hubbard died but before Miscavige developed very different habits, the money that before was going directly to Hubbard was allowed, by Miscavige, to go into Scientology itself. I don’t know if this is true but it’s the way I explain to myself how much Saint Hill changed in the years that I was in Scientology: the mountain of sand I played in when I was five was the course room I did the communication course in when I was eight and Saint Hill just became so plush all round it was ridiculous. My mother says she was a drug addict and Scientology saved her life: ok, fine, but she’s lost everything that could be called a person’s life to Scientology since that day.

    • Baby

      Sorry about your Mom Org.. sigh

      • org-rat 1003

        Thank you. we’re not officially disconnected though, we just almost never speak. Shouldn’t really be saying things like that incase we are but it’s unlikely to get back I think and it’s done now anyway.

        • There must be many people in your very uncomfortable situation – people who have put Scientology behind them, but understandably don’t want to burn their boats with friends and relatives who are still in.

          One of the things I wonder about is how many Scientologists there are who are just going through the motions in order to avoid being declared and disconnected from – how rotten has the apple become inside?

          If there are many of them, perhaps the collapse of the organisation is closer than we think.

          • org-rat 1003

            I was only thirteen when I left my fanatically scientologist mother to live with my Ex-Scientologist father and I only remember experiencing believing Scientologists (including myself up to very near the end) and I find it difficult to imagine being in the organisation while not really believing in Scientology but for all I know that could be happening alot now because circumstances have changed so much.

            • The way I understand it is that Scientology in England, in the 90’s and before, was quite a tight community because it’s a small country, and Scientologists tended to cluster around Saint Hill (in 2011 the UK census recorded 2,417 Scientologists, of which at least a third were in the vicinity of Saint Hill).

              Consequently, nobody who is having doubts, or keeping their head down, is going to admit this to anyone in case it gets back to ‘ethics’ – so nobody really knows how many nominal ‘members’ are doing this.

              There could be a lot of them, who all think that they are the only one.

            • org-rat 1003

              That’s perfectly possible, I just meant that personally, subjectively, I’ve only experienced Scientology as something that’s hook line and sinker or not at all, but, obviously, I wouldn’t have been able to accurately read alot of what was going on around me.

            • I understand that, and your respect for truth is to your credit.

              The fact that the CofS is so compartmentalised that even ‘executives’, let alone ordinary members, don’t know the full picture makes for a very frustrating situation.

              I suspect that even they don’t know what the true situation is.

            • mockingbird

              I think organizations that are high control reflect their founders. In Scientology a man with a compartmentalized mind had aspects of self denied and dissociated from.

              He habitually and pathologically denied negative aspects of self and projected them onto others.

              That shaped his twisted and fractured mind.

              His organization mirrors his madness.

            • Sine qua non

              Well put. Shudder.

            • 3feetback-of-COS

              In my case, I had inreasing doubt and decreasing enchantment for several decades. I was UTR, inactive, but in “good standing” just in case it turned out there was some validity to past lives and OT. Analogous to a commodity speculator hedging his position.

              I have no idea what percentage of clams have that mindset, but I probably was not the only one.

            • There may be others who are even more disillusioned. There’s just no way of telling.

          • Draco

            I think there are a lot who question Int Management, the changes over the years, DM etc, and are pissed off at what scn has now become, but they won’t really see the whole truth about how rotten the “tech” is until they allow themselves to go onto the internet and start reading. Once they do that, I reckon it’s very hard to hang around with scilons and pretend. They mostly fade away and try to be as inconspicuous as possible. For people with family on staff, it’s a lot harder to do, and this is where these stupid “Basics” courses actually come in handy. You can do them at home. So some people take that route, and I reckon there are just not enough motivated staff left to follow up with them and make sure they are really doing the courses.

            • I reckon there are just not enough motivated staff left to follow up with them and make sure they are really doing the courses

              This is a crucial point.

              What I’m wondering is whether these people will walk away when they see impending organisational collapse – when they realise that the CofS can no longer touch them because they don’t have enough people to insure that the rent is paid on time, let alone chase anyone up.

              At that point the bottom might drop out of the apparent membership.

            • PeaceMaker

              Unless Scientology loses their reserves, I think everything will be kept open with last-minute emergency payments to forestall seizures and foreclosures, which is what they’re already having to do in some cases. They seem fanatically committed to keeping up appearances, and to have enough resources to keep up the illusion.

              I have trouble imaging just what the final tipping or breaking point is going to be, or is going to look like, but I think it is going to be very strange, and likely unpredictable if not unexpected. It seems to me that it will involve hanging on so long, that it becomes totally bizarre. We can see in recent history, the collapse of authoritarian regimes usually comes not with the leader jetting off to exile when things get uncomfortable, but with their hanging on until they bring the whole structure down with them.

            • Harpoona Frittata

              “They seem fanatically committed to keeping up appearances, and to have enough resources to keep up the illusion.”

              So committed, in fact, that at some point in the not too distant future it’s going to transition almost completely into doing purely fundraising activities, instead of delivering services, as a kind of space operatic Prosperity Gospel faith, which will begin to exist more and more on television instead of out in the real world — except, of course, for Clearwater, where lil davey stills dreams of owning the town and running the local government.

              I think his long-term vision there is a kind of Fortress $cn smershed into a luxury retirement community, where aging $cilons can relax in the company of their own kind and exorcise the last of their BTs in final preparation for their Journey Back to Source…Kool-aid fountains, BT waxing/grooming salons, pop-up reges who track your every move and know to the penny what your current credit line will bear, that sorta thing πŸ˜‰

            • For some time, I have predicted an organisational collapse. One day, there simply won’t be enough Scientologists to maintain the complex structure of the CofS and effectively defend the organisation from external threats (which will soon include circling vultures like the IRS).

              As for the reserves, the largest sums of money are useless if you can’t deploy them effectively. As the management becomes steadily more dysfunctional, the CofS is like an army with all of the best weapons, but only a few untrained soldiers who are more likely to desert than fight.

              You can hire as many mercenaries as you like – but you still have to able to hire them and oversee them. No less an entity than the Roman Empire fell partly because of an over-reliance on mercenaries.

              This is the reason I am so interested in the proportion of UTRs – if the organisation is rotten at the core, it’s collapse will be unexpectedly quick and complete.

            • Still_On_Your_Side

              I think it’s being held together by members from Asia, Latin America and Russia.

            • The US organisation seems to be increasingly underpinned by people from these places – which is only going to make matters worse because it will take them a while to learn how to function within US culture – especially when the are expected to use ‘the tech’ to ‘make it go right’.

              In the UK, that may be the case at Saint Hill, too – but the orgs are collapsing. I have reliable information that Plymouth Org, whose catchment area includes the whole of the South-west of England has a grand total of 30 long-time members and no new recruits. It’s bumping along the bottom.

            • Agreed, if it wasn’t for the fact they can currently hold foreigners hostage by locking up their
              passports and making false promises, the collapse would be likely imminent. My daughter just became an attorney and wanted to research if it was legal to actually lock up passports and not allow free access to them. She is itching to take an anti-Scilon case even if pro bono to do the right thing plus she would make a name for herself but Tony said she would be crazy. When I told him to send anyone with a potential case but no money potential regarding contingency settlement her way he said no one takes on scilons pro bono. She asked why not? She wants to take down this evil slimeball Miscavige. Her new bosses in St. Louis just watched Leah’s Memorial Day show with great interest intrigued that Miscavige is such a real coward and paper tiger now when it comes to being able to scare anyone. They remember the St. Louis Post Dispatch fair game event which they said was more than what was reported decades ago.

            • PeaceMaker

              Once Born, that’s a solid standard analysis, that normally I’d agree with. However, I’m not certain that it accounts for fanatical totalitarian systems with surreal tolerance for inflicting and surviving pain and suffering, and tolerating poverty and deprivation, such as Mugabe’s Zimbabwe or Assad’s Syria. There are a number of similar regimes that survived all predictions of their implosion, only to finally succumb to external forces (military intervention against Ghaddafi in Libya) or unexpected calamities (disease in Duvalier’s Haiti).

              I realized that I should have noted in my original comment, that there are reports that outside security guards at California orgs are helping visitors use the automated public relations and advertising displays. That almost seems as if Scientology is preparing for the day when there aren’t even enough staff members to run the orgs without contract help.

              And we see outside lawyer Monique Yingling doing interviews and public relations, now that the prominent OSA staff are gone. I’ve long joked that Scientology would end up with the lawyers and outside directors (mostly lawyers) running the corporations and that attorneys would be the ones to profit at the end, but perhaps that’s no longer so far-fetched.

              I’m guessing that Scientology might be able to survive losing over half their members, and perhaps even being close to decimated. Some of the smaller orgs, and possibly even some of the “ideal” orgs, seem to operate with as few as 10 to 20 active members, and a lot of them seem to have around 50 to 70, so presumably the average org could lose at least three quarters of their members and be no worse off than the really struggling orgs that still manage to stay open – though the weakest orgs would require heavy outside support to survive, perhaps at that point relying on staff recruited from abroad. Then, with a smaller base to serve, I’d guess that half the Sea Org could “blow” and, with some re-focusing on essential tasks, and outsourcing of work like printing and furniture making, still keep the organization running.

              What I’ve outlined, would put Scientology on a path to being so grossly in violation of IRS guidelines for the way that a church-type religious group is supposed to operate, that they would finally start to take action. However, Scientology refused to pay taxes after the loss of their exempt status in 1968, and thwarted the agency with legal actions for 25 years until the 1993 agreement, so I’m not sure that even an initial ruling against the tax exemption would affect their operations anytime in the foreseeable future.

              I agree that withdrawal of the UTRs may occur, with devastating effect – though I’m not sure that would actually reach a critical threshold, as I’ve outlined above. You could be right about organizational collapse, but I’d give that scenario at best a 50% likelihood.

              My suspicion is that a reduced and dying Scientology would do less harm because of having fewer members and staff, but possibly even escalate their abuses against those remaining – and do so for much longer than might be expected. I thus think it’s important for Americans, in particular, not to be lulled into expectations that Scientology’s abuses will end anytime soon because of internal factors, and to be prepared to push for law enforcement, legal and regulatory action – perhaps following the lead of other countries with less tolerance for exploitation and abuse under the cover of religion.

            • In a nation controlled by a totalitarian regime there is, crucially nowhere to go. Scientology is a different proposition because it is embedded in non-totalitarian societies. However difficult it is to do, it is always possible to walk away (which you cannot do in, for example Zimbabwe).

              I agree that a ‘religion’ with colossal cash reserves, but hardly any members might have a problem with the IRS – unfortunately, the question is whether or not there is the political will to take them on again.

              Again – it doesn’t matter how much money Scientology has if it can’t deploy it in effectively because it’s already dysfunctional organisation is in a state of collapse.

              As maintaining Scientology with mercenaries – I don’t see that working. How many of those people stood in front of video displays signed up for a course, and how many were astonished that the organisation couldn’t summon up a believer to take to them?

              Also, I’m sure that, when the administration of Scientology becomes chaotic, the organisation will not lack people (both insiders and outsiders) willing to make some of its money disappear into their own pockets – in some cases money that Scientology could not admit having salted away in the first place.

              Finally, one possibility for the end game is a social implosion – a withdrawal of the most faithful to Clearwater where they can isolate themselves and maintain the delusion that Scientology is valid. As you say, there would be fewer people at risk, but the situation could escalate.

            • chukicita

              Will people please stop talking about ‘withdrawal to Clearwater?’

              No, thank you! Maybe they could withdraw out of here instead?

            • They have lots of other compounds that they could withdraw to instead, if Clearwater was made unattractive to them- something that seems to be well worth working on.

            • PeaceMaker

              Once Born, again, I don’t necessarily dispute your analysis or the plausibility of your scenario, but I’m not sure it’s the most probable one.

              I think that the reason that Scientology even still endures, is the way that in entraps people between the idea of “eternity” salvation, and the threat of disconnection. For many if not most of those left, who either have family ties or are too old to re-establish themselves socially and psychologically (including, perhaps, spiritually), I’m not so sure that they’re really any less trapped than the people of Zimbabwe – in fact, we hear stories of people having to move hundreds if not thousands of miles away from Scientology orgs to really escape the cult sphere (and a lot of Zimbabweans do leave – up to a quarter of the country’s former population are now refugees elsewhere).

              Scientology started losing its real talent long, long, ago, and I’m not sure when the point wight come that there were somehow so crippled as to not even be able to deploy their resources to keep the orgs nominally open. I’d be interested to hear what someone with a lot of experience inside, had to say about that.

              And I’m not sure how much relying on outside hired help, would hurt them. They’re already not really recruiting successfully through their orgs, so I don’t think it makes much of a difference whether the video kiosks for occasional visitors are turned on by Scientology staff, or contract security. It would mark another step towards their demise, but just a step in a process that could be very drawn out.

              The one thing that has almost never been a problem in Scientology orgs, and I don’t think would become one, is embezzlement. Constant sec checking forestalls that and other related problems. Their internal security and loyalty systems, are another unusual mechanism that add to their ability to survive situations that almost any other group might not.

              I think they essentially already tried concentrating membership in Clearwater, and that didn’t really work out. I suspect they are headed towards having a small membership, scattered except for Southern California and Clearwater, and probably eclipsed in size by the Sea Org. At that point, they’ll be more of a communitarian order – which also has different tax implications in the US, at least in theory.

              The wildcard factor that will hit both the membership and the Sea Org, is demographics. But it’s not clear to me whether that will really undermine their ability to survive, or if they have just enough new blood, like second- and third- generation members, to muddle on for longer than might be expected.

              p.s. I just happend across the fact that the largest branch of the Exclusive (Plymouth) Brethren has more members and churches worldwide that the CofS, which I did not know. I don’t know if their continued existence provides any sort of example useful for comparing to Scientology, but they’re interesting to note particularly for their tangential relationship through Aleister Crowley.

            • I’m not talking about the situation now (when, for example money is very carefully controlled). I’m taking about the situation when there is no longer an effective organisation in place.

              East German guards shot people trying to go over the wall – until the regime was in a state of collapse, at which point they took off their uniforms, abandoned their weapons and went home.

              Strange things happen in the transitional stage of such collapses, and Scientologists (and mercenaries) exploiting the chaos to like their pocket isn’t too far-fetched.

              One of the reasons this collapse will take place is the decline in membership (due to ageing and lack of recruitment) and the decline the competence of members (Scientology does not attract professional people, as it once did).

              Funny you should mention the exclusive brethren – https://scicrit.wordpress.com/2015/03/17/what-the-exclusive-brethren-have-to-teach-us-about-scientology/ although I have never heard of a Crowley connection, and would be interested in that…

            • Jenyfurrrrr

              This is a common theme but most seem to base this on the recent real estate battles & Tom Cruise’s condo – is there actual evidence out there of the more “average” Scientologists migrating that way?

            • Thankfully, no.

              Social implosion is something which happens when a organisation collapses and the true believers band together for support. In the case of Scientology, Clearwater is currently a good bet for the place they will make their last stand, when that happens. In the event, it could be somewhere else.

              It’s like a supernova. The final collapse of a star blows away most of the mass (the orgs and Scientology’s remaining members) but sometimes leaves behind a very dense core (the true believers, huddling together for comfort).

              I think that, in the case of Scientology, this is an outside chance, because it would require organisation – and the reason that Scientology will collapse in the first place will be its near-total failure to organise itself.

              However, it’s such a potentially dangerous possibility, that it’s worth bearing in mind.

            • Jenyfurrrrr

              Interesting & definitely something that makes good sense as to what would likely occur if there were a mass exodus or other precipitating event. You’re right about it being a scary proposition was

            • It’s scary not because of social and physical isolation – Scientology already practices that – but because those isolated would be a self -selected group consisting of the most committed members – fanatical, even.

              As I say, it probably won’t happen. I sincerely hope not, in any case.

            • Free Minds, Free Hearts

              I agree. I only know 5 scientologists. 3 are trapped ay Gold. 2 are UTR. I think at Int Base right now it is old timers (65 years or older) and 2nd/3rd gen, and foreigners. Mike Rinder said Austin has 10 people on course and just applied to the city to renovate for $15 Million for an ideal org.

            • Jenyfurrrrr

              The Scientologists we knew were all out of Orange County, CA (not FL) and even up until 2013 they had a decent number of people there – but compared to the many mega-churches, synagogues, etc. It seemed pretty “intimate” there – especially considering OC is a Mecca of people driven to make tons of $ at any cost (MLM’s, Shady side-businesses & real estate deals, etc.) so of ANY place it seemed like one of the few that will hold on.

              Interestingly when our family friend got involved, he was encouraged to do so up in LA where the Scio’s “are much more serious” but granted that was due to those getting him involved being up that way. ALL of that said to make the point that EVERYwhere is dwindling! So it’s sad (& a little nuts to me) that the still-ins genuinely believe that THEIR org or mission is the “only one not booming w/47x growth like everyone else!” I’ve been up to LA and while they certainly have more SO & staff (since all Ideal org staff are forced to train there) even LA is a fraction of what all exes report it used to be just a few years back!

            • Draco

              I think that will happen. I am sure there are many who can’t wait for it to happen.

            • 3feetback-of-COS

              That is what I’m looking for!

            • So say we all.

            • April

              “… not enough motivated staff left to follow up with them and make sure they are really doing the courses.”

              But they have enough staff to send letters to people who bought the Dianetics book 40 years ago!?

          • 3feetback-of-COS

            I think you may be right,

          • Noesis

            Indeed.

            The church has created its own UTR problem because of its failure to deliver promised results, combined with the nastiness they exhibit toward people that no longer want to be involved as well as the efforts to disconnect those still involved with those who choose to leave.

            This creates the weird dynamic where there are very large numbers of public who are for all practical purposes “blown” but who pretend they are just too busy or broke to be on course, or otherwise involved with any Org.

            Without being able to see the books (assuming anything useful actually exists) it is impossible to know (but not to speculate) that the cost of tens of thousands of UTR’s (mailings, phone calls, wasted staff regging efforts, carrying costs on wasted / unneeded book and meter inventories, plus unneeded real estate and equipment depreciation, etc.) greatly exceeds the potential future value of the tiny number of current UTR public that will ever do any services again.

            The above non-recoverable costs measured against the value of on-account-but-never-to-be-used-prepayments (that will never be refunded) would be an interesting calculation, again assuming anything like a global accounting general ledger actually exists.

            One thing that is certain – if there is a way for Scientology senior leadership to short change public, staff or Sea Org members, it will be found and exploited to the benefit of a tiny few at the top – including their enablers in the legal profession.

    • Use the ‘Good roads good weather tech’ and stay in comm with her. It will be her lifeline when things get tough. I don’t know what I would have done without the support of Daughter #1 when I was leaving. My best wishes to you πŸ™‚

      • Kestrel

        Good advice.

      • org-rat 1003

        Yeah, that’s pretty much what it became, we could talk but couldn’t go near the subject of Scientology. It’s been a few years now since we spoke because the last time I couldn’t keep my mouth shut about some things but I will call her quite soon and will stick to the rules like you suggest. Thank you.

    • Chee Chalker

      “… even Scientology’s front groups needed their own front groups…..”

      Best quote!

    • Suzy
    • Suzy

      I’m sorry to hear about your mom. Thank you for sharing your experiences.

      • org-rat 1003

        Thank you.

    • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

      Hi, org-rat 1003. Thanks for the interesting information. I was unaware of most of that. I have no doubt that your mother said that she was a drug addict and that Scientology saved her life as you report. What I have to wonder is if she really was a drug addict and if Scientology really saved her life. As a rule of thumb I am suspicious of those reports. I think they are used to stop discussion and to prove the worth of Scientology, something which most people either have no opinion about or think is worthless. Without Scientology she might still be alive today and not using drugs. In fact, to me it seems likely.

      • org-rat 1003

        I think it’s possible, though for someone to feel happier, initially, after they’ve found Scientology, because they believe in this extremely convenient, thoughtlessly idealistic world in which every question has been anwered because it’s been written down in a book, but this happiness is subjective, temporary, extremely conditional (it can evaporate when a Scientologist is merely verbally disagreed with, hence their need to make everyone a scientologist), and may lead to more damage in the long run than even their original substance abuse problem; especially as they are now completely dependent on something external to them for their own sobriety, not their own individual strength. I felt compelled to say this because I have known many ex drug addict Scientologists who I felt were sincere in this respect, albeit ignorant of the bigger picture obviously, because they were Scientologists.

        • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

          Thanks for the long and thoughtful reply. I wonder if anyone has done statistics on how Scientology actually manages a drug problem, comparing it say, to AA, placebo, whatever the standard medical procedure is town, doing nothing, drug replacement therapy or finding Christianity. My wild guess is that it is worth than nothing.

          I remember my cousin speaking to a group of potential recruits about 1970. He was a fantastic speaker. He said that he had had a problem but there was no need to mention what it was. He tried for years to deal with the problem, even seeking professional help but it seemed there was nothing that could be done. The he found Scientology. Very quickly the problem was gone. I was sixteen hearing this and it was a compelling statement, a bit like watching someone arise from their wheelchair and walk at a revival meeting.

          Anyway he was gay. He is still gay. He talked himself out of it for a short while, but he was still gay.

          I suspect that something like that goes on in the mind of the drug addicts as well, those of them that actually are drug addicts. The ones who aren’t have to first convince themselves that they are drug addicts.

          Anyway, it is just opinion with little evidence and my two cents.

          • org-rat 1003

            I see what you’re saying; I really don’t know the answer. My mother didn’t go around saying Scientology cured her of drug addiction she just went round saying Scientology was the be all and the end all of everything: It was to me personally she said Narcanon saved her life when she was a drug addict, when she was crying because I kept saying negative things about Scientology. What can you do, really?

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              I don’t know what to do with about it to this day. None of my family in Scientology were as close as a Mom. We are all out but some of us are still engaged in thought processes that parallel Scientology’s. I don’t see these people very often any more and when I do I ignore the cultish nonsense, allowing it to be the elephant defecating in the room.

            • org-rat 1003

              I guess their are some who would say I was in a cult because I believe in God: everyone to their own I guess.

            • chukicita

              Well, there are plenty of people who believe in God or Allah or Kokumthena or La Pacha Mama, and get something out of it but don’t ditch their kids or cash out their college funds for it.

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              Some would define it that way. I hear a lot of people using the short phrase, “Harmful Cult” to discern fairly harmless organizations from big cults like Scientology. I believe that all organizations, like my former employer which was a board of education and, say, the Lion’s Club, have cult-like characteristics. When an organization has a lot of this characteristics and each one to a high degree, they are a cult.

            • org-rat 1003

              I agree, I’m not saying that I would say that. Everyone to their own in England just means we all make our own individual choices. People in cults don’t though.

            • chukicita

              True dat!

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        My family member joined and says the same. It is true, he was into hard drugs when he joined 45 years ago. Not an addict, but a user with no place to go but down. So he got off drugs which is great. But again, like org-rat, he has lost the ensuing 45 years of freedom. Trapped at Int Base, plenty of years in the Hole.

        • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

          I am being a cynic here but if I had to choose one it would be drugs. Drugs are cheaper, not as bad for your health and easier to get off of then Scientology.

          • Free Minds, Free Hearts

            I agree – in retrospect and if we had the internet 45 years ago I would have tried to stop him from joining at that time!

    • This is some good advice on talking to a Scientologist from the one and only MLT πŸ™‚ http://www.xenu.net/archive/infopack/16.htm

      • org-rat 1003

        Thank you for the heads up. I wasn’t able to open the link directly but I think I got to where you meant: There’s alot of articles on there I want to read.–Love your work (especially the Saint hill videos obviously). Thank you.

        • How to talk to a Scientologist by Michael Leonard Tilse πŸ™‚ Good advice.

          • org-rat 1003

            Nice one dude, thanks, I will read it this evening.

        • I’ve fixed it now.

  • chukicita
    • That’s only the first station of the new Ideal Assimilation Centre. The NOI ‘arrangement’ turned out so well that they are now allied with the Borg.

      We are the Church of Scientology. Lower your critical faculties and surrender your minds. We will add your money to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile

    • MarcabExpat

      …and two hours later, I woke up and saw this and spit tea everywhere.

      • chukicita

        I’m pretty sure someone else thought of this before, but I’m still too undercaffeinated to know where I saw it, if so.

    • I LOLd.

    • John Prince

      I know a Black kitty who likes rubbing Salt in the Wounds πŸ“‰

  • Bradley Greenwood

    Ah, Tijuana… many a litre of Tequila I have known there.

  • Tracy Schmitz

    BUT WAIT, THIS CAN’T BE! THIS IS INSIDIOUS IGNORANT WOG P.R.! i mean according to the celebs especially one with the initials “T.C.” this is the ONLY 100% successful drug program in the entire world! 100% perfect record!!!! it got kirstie off the drugs, but didn’t do a thing (and she has no answer for it i might add) for her weight issues..oops, once again, yet again, silly me, the celebs don’t know ANY of this is going on, they are “brainwashed” they live in the world’s biggest bubble” they are just too too busy and just too too fabulous to find out anything FOR THEMSELVES the good or the bad”… blah, blah, blah excuse excuse excuse…

    • April

      She’s just replaced cocaine with food. Not really “cured” of her addiction.
      The health effects of obesity and decades of extreme yo-yo dieting will kill you just as dead as drug or alcohol addiction.

      • Tracy Schmitz

        all true april.. is she that clueless and ignorant not to see this?? or that much of a narcissistic coward not to admit it… yeah, scientology has really helped her in every aspect of her life! (overflowing sarcasm!)..

  • OOkpik

    IIRC, Narconon Arrowhead was promoted as their international training center even before it opened. Are they now promoting the same old thing and pretending it’s new?

  • davegrille

    It is a mystery how Narconon ,can stay in business in the USA at all ,since there aren’t any First Amendment issues,there are state and local licensing requirements for health related businesses,and they flagrantly violate mail and wire fraud statutes .

  • MM

    “Can You Imagine If Our Planet Was Drug Free?”

    – 247 million people (approx. 1 in 29) used drugs this past year,
    of whom
    – 29 million people (approx. 1 in 248) suffer from drug abuse,
    yet
    – 1 in 6 people (approx. 1.2 Billion) are in treatment for drug addiction.

    Maybe all those Narconons appear so empty because the staff have been ordered to re-do Applied Scholastics elementary school?

  • Jimmy3

    Sometimes it seems there is more shit that can’t be written about Scientology than there is new information coming in about it. We get this update on the state of Narconon as a whole, which is great, but what about those lawsuits that are mentioned in the article? I understand why Tony can’t write about it, and I don’t fault him, but how is it that no one else on this blog ever mentions 30 lawsuits settled by Scientology with apparently very heavy NDAs? The public is allowed to speculate on such a great, albeit quiet, admission of guilt. Yet everyone just moved on as if it never happened. Sometimes you people scare me.

    • PickAnotherID

      There are sites specifically focused on narCONon’s sneakiness and lawsuits:

      http://forum.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/

      http://narcononreviews.net/

      • Jimmy3

        There are also about 30 articles on this blog about it. And then it was never mentioned again. I do appreciate you linking additional sources of information, but I will not buy the “well there’s another place that covers that specifically” line. This is where it was covered.

        • Not sure why you’re so distressed about this. Tony made it pretty clear that there were settlements starting to happen last year. With NDAs enforced, they became non-stories at that point. Then Aftermath, Marty’s Marvelous Meltdown, and literally hundreds of daily stories on this blog simply buried the Narconon suits as a center of focus down in the Bunker.

          • Jimmy3

            Again, I’m not voicing displeasure that Tony doesn’t feature it. But their play worked and no critics mention it ever. On any platform.

            • My PharmaLucre doesn’t allow for my criticizing drug rehab programs. Besides, if the lizards get mad at me I’ll get knocked down a peg or two on the pay scale and I just bought a new Panamera Turbo that matches my PC-12’s livery. That or I’ll be fed to the hatchlings.

    • ze moo

      Without real info on settlement payments, what can anyone print? I would like to see a listing of all of the plaintiff names and the amounts they sued for.

      The family of the woman who ODed in that Cali NarCONon ‘training center’ is suing the Clampire. So is the new ‘training center’ in Arrowhead going to be ‘training/treatment center’? That part of Oklahoma has kept bad news out of the news for a long time. Why should $cientology waste all that safe pointing and bribe paying?

      The scam of NarCONon has not hit the news services any where near hard enough. That brand name is not Ebola enough yet.

      • Jimmy3

        I said I understand why Tony doesn’t write about it. I’m not trying to call him out here. I’m wondering why other ardent watchers don’t mention it. It’s my first thought when Narconon is in the title.

        • Observer

          We heard about the first wave being settled and I assumed that’s what happened to all of them. Once again, Scientology folds like a house of cards when faced with the possibility of a jury trial.

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      What’s to say? They’re settled and because of the NDA’s we may never know anything. Now bust up the green you got there. It’s wake and bake time. πŸ˜‚

      • Jimmy3

        I gonna wight now.
        Also I have a funny story for you that’s not appropriate for this blog. Sometime later on just ask to tell you that funny story

        • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

          Will do. I have one to tell you about my impromptu throat exam outside the Smoothie King Center so…..we’ll talk soon. ; )

          • Weirdest sentence of the day.

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              Yeah, out of context it really is. LOL For the record, we were with friends at a concert, one who is a Dr. My voice was so bad when we left his drunk ass thought it would be a good idea to check my throat before we left. It was hilarious to see outside an arena, not to mention both our spouses were in a pile laughcrying at us. πŸ˜€

            • I love those moments.

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              We had a really good time and my voice was really bad. Had it been my Dr. he’d probably have done the same thing. Whenever I tried to talk this weird croaking sound came out. Doing better today, I can whisper without the froggy croak. It was so worth it though. If you get the chance to see this current Roger Waters tour, I highly recommend it. πŸ™‚

    • org-rat 1003

      Out of court settlements certainly do not seem to be a form of ‘winning’ that leads to much change, except, I guess, for those who have been settled.

    • Volunteer SP

      What lawsuits?

      Just kidding πŸ˜‰

      Anyone who is thinking about the remote possibility of ever utilizing Narconon for themselves, friends, or family, needs to made completely aware of those lawsuits, and what’s been discovered about Narconon in the process.

      Decades ago I was told by a high level official within Scientology that Narconon had an 80-90% success rate. It was a huge con back then and still is. People need to know the truth.

    • Tony Ortega

      You’ve hit on a good question, Jimmy. The lawsuits against Narconon are a story in themselves, and it’s hard to get any specifics on it. I can talk a little more generally though. Readers of this website know very well that there was something of a gold rush of lawsuits against Narconon for a while there, thanks largely to the brilliant work of attorney Jeff Harris in Georgia, who spent years getting great documents out of the Narconon there. Those documents became blueprints for dozens of lawsuits filed later by Ryan Hamilton and other attorneys around the country. Harris, Hamilton, and a few other attorneys were also very conscious of the outrageous lies of Narconon and wanted the public to know what was going on — so we all got to see some amazing information in their public court filings. But there is also a very real mathematical calculus which works to limit these lawsuits — they are only worth so much money. One attorney, who will remain nameless, at one point broke it down for me. He said that whatever the awful things that happened at a Narconon, your typical lawsuit was generally going to result in a settlement of about 100K. And Scientology knows that, so what they do is throw their typical tactics at you in court that force you to waste a lot of time and money to fight them, and so, as an attorney, you watch the costs eat up that potential award pretty quickly. At some point, even if you’re committed to fighting Narconon and getting its secrets out, it will be in your client’s best interest to work out a settlement to get them that 100K before it’s all eaten up in costs. Then, of course, settlement requires no more talking about it, and the case goes away. So while I have no specific information about the 30 or so cases that were filed in recent years, you can probably guess that they generally all went that way. And you can’t blame those attorneys for watching out for their clients. This is why a couple of attorneys were telling us they were actually most interested in the NAFC suit, which potentially had MILLIONS in liabilities because of the way Narconon had misused the NAFC’s trademarks over the years. And that explains why Scientology went so hard after Karla Taylor, the NAFC’s president, in a way that they didn’t go after the Narconon plaintiffs. They tried to destroy that woman, and found a cooperative judge who ended up forcing her to turn over her personal laptop to Scientology’s attorneys. It’s no surprise that that case went away soon after that. The lesson? Scientology fights hard, Scientology fights dirty. We have a lot of admiration for Jeff Harris and Ryan Hamilton and a few other attorneys for trying to do more than simply get their clients a paycheck by exposing Narconon in their court filings. But not all attorneys work that way. We got almost nothing out of the cases of Stacy Murphy or Gabriel Graves — whose death is still unexplained, for example. The good news here is that those documents in the Harris and Hamilton cases are still available for future cases, and we wish people would do a simple Google search on “Narconon” before they sent their loved ones to such a deceptive and dangerous place. And we will always be interested in any future lawsuits against Narconon. But yes, you’re right. It’s been disappointing to see them all disappear at this point.

      • Graham

        ” it will be in your client’s best interest to work out a settlement to get them that 100K before it’s all eaten up in costs.”

        I’m surprised that a settlement wouldn’t include Scientology paying both sides’ costs.

      • MarcabExpat

        Terrific explanation, thanks for tracing this out for us. with such clarity.

        • Dale

          Agreed, thanks to both. The “religion” of Scientology stands on banal reality.

      • balletlady

        I can imagine that “out of court settlements” might work a bit better for them in certain instances.. Yes, “the organization” might lose some cold hard $$$….BUT if a Court were to decide the outcome, they’d surely could lose a lot more $$$.
        In hindsight, at best come down to “look take THIS $$$$$, go away & shut the Hell up”……rather than drag on & on in a Court waiting for the legalities to settle, & possibly have the organization give a huge pay out in damages.

      • Science Doc

        Many if not most of the Narconons in the US must be loosing money by now as well as upper level fronts/conduits such as NI, ABLE, etc. While the laundry, food prep, grounds work, and much of the daily client contact can still be handled by their interns, the serious Scientologists running the franchises, SUPing, EOs, and whatever, have bridges and WOG world expenses, and regulatory filings show that some of these people had pretty nice salaries. Surely the injuries are mortal for many of these places and the owners/managers must be pulling equity like an ATM to keep their paychecks for a final year.

      • Baby

        Tony while I have you here..

        You know that woman who you wrote about that went home and had like 6 weeks to decide if she was going to return to US for Scn. returned back? or did she stay?

        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/65657c1e2d523f3edcf591cb9dcffea4d7e82aa9d3efc31a0422d5eb8fbf1f93.jpg

        • TonyOrtega

          I don’t know what you mean about a six week deadline. If you’re talking about the Kazakh woman, she’s still home with her parents, as far as I know.

          • Baby

            Thanks.. I thought she had a number of weeks to decide.. Have a good day off Mr.

      • Baby
      • Interesting info. I always thought the settlements would be higher. Well, Scientology will continue to play dirty and it seems pretty likely someone will have something solid to sue them for again soon.

      • Jimmy3

        Thank you. That does explain it further.

      • What baffles me is why these are civil and not criminal cases – people are dying as a result of culpable manslaughter.

        Narconon fails in just about every duty of care that applies to them. Why do the victims and those who survive them have to sue – why aren’t the police knocking on Narconon’s doors?

      • what is needed is criminal prosecutions.

        France knows how to do it, what’s up with being the loser in that race, US (and Denmark)?

        https://infinitecomplacency.blogspot.com/2013/04/ignoring-epilepsy-i_3446.html

    • Kay (aka Nasty Lady)

      Great question, Grasshopper.

    • Harpoona Frittata

      You point to one aspect of a much larger under-reported topic of key significance to $cn reformers: The cult’s extensive use of high-dollar legal weasels to aid and abet their criminal operations through procedural tactics — such as delay, obstruction and appeal — which make suing $cn a long, expensive and often fruitless endeavor.

      Yesterday’s featured episode of Chris Shelton’s interview with Bunker lawyer and web master, Scott Pitulak, went into depth and detail to describe the cult’s long-time legal strategy, as well as his take on what legal approaches to holding the cult to account are most likely to be effective. In it, Scott described the cult’s primary strategy of settling any case that could potentially result in the cult’s tiny tyrant and/or key minions being compelled to testify under oath or that threatens to open their financial records to public view.

      Since suing the cult costs a fortune and takes forever to conclude, even the most tenacious and dedicated litigants very often accept a confidential settlement agreement, rather than continue to fight the cult in court. $cn is notorious for its all-inclusive NDAs, which effectively prevent individual suits from setting precedents that others who have suffered the same kinds of fraud or abuses could use as a legal basis for their own cases.

      Because the cult is willing to pay almost any price to keep the true extent of its crimes private, and our judicial system is set up in such a way that it can be gamed by those groups and individuals with means, seeking justice in the courts in any $cn-related legal matter is going to continue to be a long, expensive, stress-filled and often disappointing endeavor, which is exactly why many cult victims choose to settle when offered the opportunity to do so.

      Unfortunately, the remedy there would involve a substantial overhaul of our entire judicial system, which isn’t likely to occur any time soon. Meanwhile, those who’ve settled with cult, such as Debbie Cooke, continue to be legally bound by the NDA clauses of their settlement agreements, thus preventing a wealth of crucial information concerning the systemic nature of the cult’s crimes and abuses from being revealed.

      However, in marked contrast to the dismal legal picture painted by Scott P., the cult is losing big time in the court of public opinion, where none of the evidence of its more than six decades of serious crimes and massive human/civil rights abuses can be kept from the public — which is exactly why lil davey is pulling out all the stops to dead agent those he perceives as the cult’s most effective adversaries. In past decades, the cult would have gone after them much more directly, using every dirty trick in the cult’s fair game playbook, but now that their past behavior has been completely exposed, the cult is like a toothless, clawless old tiger that can still roar, but no longer poses the same kind of danger that it once did.

      • ze moo

        Some of the exs and some journalists are still getting the ‘noisy investigation’ and other dirty tricks. The Clampire is not toothless, but that clam shell can still bite. They just don’t bite the big media anymore. Getting journalists to scream back is about the worst they can do to those who have a power base.

        • Harpoona Frittata

          Some excellent points well worth mentioning here!

          Plus, wild animals are at their most dangerous when cornered, so never never get within BT-transfer distance of a $cilon unless you’ve taken adequate precautions!

      • while that is all very well, it doesn’t stop properly prepared criminal lawsuits.

        While I applaud the results of the French legal system on the whole, I also believe that many (if not all) of the plaintiffs arrive at settlements with the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology before the end of the criminal cases. Sometimes, the criminal case soldiers on to a glorious finish, sometimes it all becomes a bit of a washout (or, in the case of the Belgian trail, a complete fiasco).

    • flyonthewall

      it’s bc we are in present time. Maybe you try it sometime?

    • TheMirrorThetan

      You are scareing me. Are you possessed? Who are you?
      I’m going to hit the bath salts or drop some acid until the real Jimmy comes back.

  • ze moo

    NarCONon dying? Say it ain’t so!! Where will the Jumping Junkie reside now? Russia?? Not when Vladimir Vladmirvich finds out about the Clam Connection. Maybe they can survive in Latin American, but even there the word will get out. Canada has shown a wonderful willingness to keep them out. The ability of ABLE to keep NarCONon alive is over.

    The NarCONon franchises in Michigan and Florida may rebrand, but will they throw out the Lron books and clay modeling tables? Those operations were built to take advantage of the cheap labor provided by former ‘students’. I just can’t see real professionals signing for a stint at any NarCONon.

    Hopefully, they are doomed. Someone put a stake in its heart and burn the carcass.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWzzX4lLPnU

  • AntoniaW

    There’s a glimpse of Narconon facilities in Egypt here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPyRHuPkT2A

    In contrast to the gleaming facades shown in their propaganda videos, this group of listless inmates, supervised apparently by a lone woman dressed for modesty rather than physical activity, knock a ball round a poorly-designed and badly maintained prison-type yard. At about 1:30 you get a glimpse of the surrounding architecture.

    Note they are playing in an unshaded space, in the full glare of the sun. This would be hellish in day time for at least half the year.

    • Jon S

      Playing soccer in the full glare of the sun is really no big deal in the developing world. They’re lucky to have shoes. A couple of those guys are pretty tasty and would probably get onto the Sheffield United substitutes bench.

      • AntoniaW

        Bollocks. It depends on the month (look at the shadows) and the health of the participants, who don’t usually include drug addicts. Sorry, but I have lived in the Middle East.

  • Dale

    As long as Leah is on camera, more smirking videos from Marty can be predicted, accompanied by the unoriginal and equally predictable thoughts of Iamvalkov, Marildi, and The Oracle.

  • Luv2LuvEm

    “the Executive Director was jailed for dealing heroin…”

    Hey he was just drumming up business. The more people hooked on heroin, the more patients in the beds. And the more money in scientology’s pockets. Sounds like a typical scientology strategy to me.

  • Kim O’Brien

    i’m gonna smoke some pot for all of ya’ll

    you are welcome

    • Robert Eckert

      I’m going to timetrip back so I can drive out to Denver again and join you.

      • Mark Foster

        ThatΒ΄s some OT baking, fer sure…

    • Kestrel

      Your sacrifice is noted and appreciated.

    • Marshall

      I’d really rather do it myself :o( but I live in one of those backward states! I used to make fun of people who would queue up before the stores open to buy the newest iphone but I now say that will be me when I can legally buy pot. Priorities :o)

    • Baby

      Make mine.. really mild Kim.. Not the Ganga shit on the Island. Just enough to chill me out a little.

      Thanks and FU

    • gtsix

      Wake and bake? Don’t mind if I do.

    • ExCult.Jan
  • EmmaDaoust
  • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

    In driving by the narconon in Clearwater it is completely hidden now with tall bushes in front of the fence. Only if you go down the street where gate is, can one see the name.
    Thank you Rod!

    • Observer

      So they’ve expanded the application of shrubbery tech.

      • Draco

        I like the term “Bush tech”… ;P

      • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

        Right, and they were put in rather large and growing, to hide behind.

  • Jon S

    Alcoholics Anonymous: programme founded by two alcoholics who both got sober. Whatever it’s faults, and there are some, currently around 2 million sober alcoholics worldwide; historically, maybe 10 million more who found life-saving help. Plus the millions of sober heroin addicts and former cocaine users or gamblers in the many spin off groups such as Narcotics Anonymous, Cocaine Anonymous and Gamblers’ Anonymous. Oh, and that’s all free of charge. You pay what you want, usually a couple of bucks in the hat at a meeting.
    Narconon: programme inspired by the ravings of an alcoholic narcissist who never managed to quit or control his own destructive drinking or undergo any kind of positive personality change. Impact … virtually no customers, and not only that it has probably harmed the vast majority of those enrolled by brainwashing them into a space cult, using unverified nonsensical treatments, and charging millions of dollars in the process.
    I’m glad I went to AA.

    • bixntram

      Me too.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      And deaths. Don’t forget the people who died under Narconon’s “care.”

      And congratulations to you. Keep on going.

    • PeaceMaker

      Jon, congratulations to you. I’ve had a family member who benefited from AA, after a long struggle.

      If I recall, AA and similar programs have about the same sadly low success rate as residential rehab programs – it’s just a tough problem. But at least AA doesn’t charge exorbitant amounts or, so far as I am aware, make false claims for their success rate.

      • April

        AA and NA are free to attend.

    • April

      Some critics liken AA to a cult and say it’s not effective or even harmful. There was some poorly designed research in the 1990’s that didn’t support AA, however, well designed studies do. More recent research is looking at combining AA/NA with other approaches such as Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT).

      AA/NA are FREE to attend. If people attend the meetings and find that it doesn’t help them, the only thing they’ve invested is a little bit of their time, more importantly, time that they weren’t out drinking and using drugs. Every substance abuse program I’ve been involved with has incorporated AA/NA plus CBT individual and group therapy, plus psychiatric treatment for those with dual diagnosis. Addiction plus mood disorders or addiction plus anxiety disorders are the most common dual diagnosis combinations in my experience.

      The only people who would have a problem with AA/NA are people who benefit the most–i.e. people like CO$ and Narconon–from ineffective treatments.

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4285560/
      http://addiction-partnership.wustl.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Defense-Of-12-Steps.docx

  • Wryturman

    In April, I emailed IC & RC, the international credentialing body for professionals in the drug counseling field, regarding the NBC expose’ Tony detailed here back then:
    “As a certified CADC-1 credentialed counselor, I’m wondering if IC & RC has an official position on Narconon facilities, whose operations are described in this interview:
    http://rockcenter.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/04/17600743-scientology-linked-rehab-narconon-under-fire-from-two-former-executives?lite
    After spending years working at legitimate agencies, studying, interning, applying, testing, et al, to achieve my IC & RC recognized certification, I find it interesting to learn I could’ve just ordered a certification from the Pita Group, as noted in the interview, and saved myself all that effort.
    Please advise.”

    Their official reply from Ms Mary Jo Mather, Executive Director:
    “Thank you for the information. Unfortunately, over the years there have been many bogus credentialing organizations whereby one may purchase a credential. It is entirely up to each state to be sure they have clearly written into state regulations which credentials they accept for clinical staff. Most states do not recognize these credential mill certificates but occasionally they slip through the cracks. IC&RC focuses on having the highest quality, evidence-based credentials available to those who are willing to work hard and obtain them as you have done. Again, unfortunately, sometimes counselors want a quick and easy pathway to a credential and there are organizations that prey on those individuals. Congratulations to you for doing it the right way.”

    Similar inquiries emailed to CARF, the international non-profit accreditor of rehabilitation facilities, and CCAPP, the California certifying organization through which I’m credentialed, have so far resulted in a deafening silence. I’ll try again and post any response from them.
    I’m gratified that the Narconon criminal enterprise is decining; we’re in the midst of a public health crisis and opioid deaths are skyrocketing, which has strained legitimite facilities/public agencies to the max. The false-front money-sucking bogus “treatment facilities” of Narconon represent the lowest venal larceny of trafficking in human misery. Their very existence is an affront to all in the helping professions.

    • CARF’s listings stink.
      http://www.carf.org/providerProfile.aspx?cid=18129

      If there’s a three-year accreditation, when was it given and when does it expire? If those pages are coming from their working database, those dates should be right there in the record and why not display them?

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Thank you for what you do to help those struggling with addiction, Wryterman, We need more like you.

  • ze moo

    Being the head or a NarCONon or a Narc executive used to be an assignment that Miscavage granted only to his most loyal minions. They ‘earned’ on average 100k per year to run their NarCONons. I have to wonder how much was kicked back to DM, but we’ll probably never know.

    Eric Tenerio and Luke Catton brought out a lot of info when they escaped. Their work helped a lot of the Narc lawsuits succeed. Their testimony really helped spread the word about the fake rehab. They connected ABLE and NarCONon International to the Clampire and opened those bank accounts to those suing them

    Does the overdose death of NarCONon signal a lack of competent people to run a NarCONon? Or just a lack of minions loyal enough for that honor? Or have the times finally caught up with the NarCONon scam? I suspect that all are true. They can’t hide the deaths anymore. They can’t hide the ‘curriculum’ anymore.

    How can NarCONon survive? Their brand of ‘training’ is or will become Ebola coated kiddie porn, if the real information gets out. Can NarCONon hide anywhere in the US anymore? Can it hide anywhere? Yeah, they have locations in Latin America and South Africa and Europe and Russia, but they are the next ones to crash and burn under the light.

    The Dutch NarCONon is dead. Australia kept 1 or more Narcs from opening. Canada has done a very good job of shutting down and preventing new out breaks of NarCONon.

    Is there a Narcan for NarCONon? I don’t see one anywhere on this planet. That is one soon to be effective clearing.

    • Harpoona Frittata

      $cn is going the way of BIG Tobacco after it was finally held to account legally for the harm that it’s products have done to millions. The cult is taking its promotional efforts off-shore and attempting to hook folks in new markets in foreign countries on its harmful products, because here in the U.S. the cult’s negative brand equity has made it an almost complete social pariah.

      Clearing the planet of $cn may take awhile, but the cult’s on the run, there’s just no doubt about that!

      “No me gusto Xenu con body thetans”

      • ze moo

        Wait for Season 2 of Remini’s ‘Aftermath’. I sense a category 5 hurricane in the offing.

        • Harpoona Frittata

          Me too! The cult senses it too and seems to have gone to the mattresses in preparation for round two of Leah and Mike’s Cult Demolition Derby. Unfortunately for the cult, sacrificing Mutty on the bonfire of his own inanities is just not going to pull their BT-ridden asses out of the fire this time.

          I feel for rank-and-file $cilons who can not easily or quickly disentangle themselves from the cult. It’s only going to get worse for those lower caste cultists from here on out, so there’s never going to be a better time to get out than right now.

          We really do need to think up some viable “Cult Rescue” efforts, perhaps along the lines of the efforts that pedigree dog breed fanciers make to rescue dogs of that breed, but based on regional proximity. For example, Clam rescue units could be set up in each Idle Morgue’s local region and their services coordinated on an informal basis among those who live close by and wish to help folks escape the cult and transition back into regular society.

        • Gus Cox

          I, by no qualification or expertise whatsoever (hey, it worked for the Fatman!) hereby declare that Hurricane Leah is a Category 6.

        • Chewkacca

          Hurricanes happen in the Northern hemisphere. Typhoons happen in the Southern hemisphere. Mike Rinder is from Australia. Typhoon Mike, combined with Hurricane Leah is ten times more damaging than either alone. Here’s hoping…….
          AAROOOOOOO!

    • balletlady

      Is THAT income reportable to the IRS….DID they report their $100,000 income to the IRS…

      • ze moo

        Yes, that is pay for work and taxes were or should have been collected.

        • balletlady

          Of course “Z”, but how MUCH of it was “reported”……was some of that “earned income” more or less “donated to the organization” & declared as a “contribution”? So many questions, as to the legit income earned & taxes paid.

    • PeaceMaker

      I assume that Narconon executives are Scientologists, who would then be expected to spend most of that salary on Scientology on courses, donations and statuses. Scientology can recapture the money without resorting to the sort of thing that would more commonly be recognized as kickbacks.

  • That map shows quite a few locations and it does seem like they’re building more Narconons around the world. The same could be said for Orgs. But as evidenced by their flagship Narconon in Oklahoma their overall client base is dwindling. More buildings less people. As they get exposed for who they are they will find it more and more difficult to con new people into it.

    Narconon/Scientology, you can hide but you can’t Trout Run.

    • PattyCakenfeld

      That map shows quite a few locations and it does seem like they’re building more Narconons around the world.
      … As they get exposed for who they are they will find it more and more difficult to con new people into it.

      I’m sure you’re right but it’s still depressing to see Scientology’s tentacles slithering even a little into non English-speaking countries where its history of abuse is less well known.

  • Kim O’Brien

    If Derek stops by today …don’t forget to wish him a Happy Birthday !

    • Baby

      OH Yay ..off to bake a cake Kim..xo Thanks

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      Thank you for the reminder.

    • Nat-leficent

      Time for a birthday thread

  • I trust that all the folks who donated at the FUN!draisers for the locations that have since shut down (or gone indie) have received their reFUNds … ?

    https://68.media.tumblr.com/4c96ff216f258344cdf11cac2b1f41d8/tumblr_inline_o7dyhuqs431ql4omn_500.gif

  • JaxNGold

    Jesus, that flyer….

    “Can you imagine if our planet was drug free?”

    Umm, our planet? As opposed to another planet being drug free? Dumb.

    There will always be people who take or abuse drugs. I mean, do they really think they’re gonna rid the world of all drugs? Come on.

    • Baby
    • PattyCakenfeld

      Maybe Jared Kushner is a secret Scientologist? After all, he’s going to solve opioid abuse, bring peace to the Middle East, reform the criminal justice system and government overall, not to mention act as the White House liaison to Muslims, China, Mexico, and two dozen or more other countries.

    • Are_sics

      Drugs are part of my religion. Those guys are a bunch of anti-religious bigots.

      • John Prince

        Interesting Observation, Brother Are_sics..be a Saint and pass the Holy Herb this way, would You?

        • Are_sics

          Indeed, I think religion is largely defined by one’s taste in sacraments. (Pace Terence McKenna)

    • chukicita

      And there always have been; every human culture has them, from time immemorial.

    • balletlady

      For sure not drug free…..those addicted to “prescription drugs” is another story. I had a friend whose husband had back issues and he IS addicted to his “pain” meds. He is always popping his pills…All to sad since he doesn’t think he is addicted. He’s come to the points of actually over dosing….yet he had doctors that keep prescribing his back pain pills…

      • Kestrel

        The scenario you describe is becoming a huge problem.

        • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

          Because of his job as a corrections officer my brother couldn’t consume marijuana (also not legal in the state he lived in) but could take anything prescribed to him and could drink. So those were his crutches for his PTSD. You have no idea how much I wish he’d had a cannabis prescription instead. Not saying it would have ultimately changed anything but it potentially would’ve been more helpful than booze & pills.

        • balletlady

          My own Grandmother could not get to sleep at night without her “sleeping pill”…….I asked her Dr to give her a “sugar pill”…….she took them and slept like a baby because she THOUGHT they were her regular prescription pill.
          In my friend’s case…even she would NOT admit that her husband was addicted, ALL of her friends and some of her family KNEW it, she could not accept it I mean, c’mon, a guy who is now around 52 & has been on these pills for over 20 years and the Drs keep prescribing it. When he can’t “get them” he goes into withdrawal…..long story to place here, but sadly that is the truth.

    • GrangerFX

      You don’t want a planet on drugs. It would make the orbit all wobbly.

  • bixntram

    Slightly off topic: I’m wondering what the percentage of smoker’s in $cion is; just a rough estimate. I’m guessing it’s significantly higher than that of the general population. LHR smoked like a fiend until forced to quit for health reasons. Does DM still smoke? Can anyone make a rough estimate?

    • Newiga

      I don’t know about your average run-of-the-mill Scientoligists but many ex-SeaOrgers have to told that Sea Org members smoke like chimneys and worse. One of the most recent stories that comes to mind is from Nora Crest. She said that ~200 RPFers smoked 2 cigarettes on their lunch break in the canteen when it was still legal to smoke in doors. That should give you a rough idea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RMwt2IaBYM

    • Elegant Mess

      I don’t know about the experience from the inside, but late at night, whenever I drive by the Anthony Building on Fountain (SeaOrg Berthing), there is a group outside the front door smoking. They also tend to be on the younger side of the age spectrum for Scientologists these days.

      • bixntram

        Also, Ross and Carrie (Podcast series) went underground at the L.A. Center until they got busted and were asked to leave. The did mention that the cigarette smoke was intense.

    • JJ

      i think everyone smokes there, it is all they have…

  • with the defection of the South Lake Tahoe and Watsonville from Narconon to become independent.

    I’ll believe that when it shows up in the Form 990s. So far Halcyon Horizons’ three locations have had name changes, but they always do that every few years to throw off all the RipoffReport type sites. They did drop the Narconon group exception, but that doesn’t hurt them.

    Naturally they tend to file Form 990s as slow as possible, so 2015 is the latest:
    http://990.erieri.com/EINS/770275827/770275827_2015_0d2b2925.PDF

  • balletlady

    With all the hype in advertising…..can they provide LEGIT “success rates”? By that I mean the true number of people admitted for help, & then the true number of people who have completed the program successfully.
    Many rehab centers do graduate addicts who’ve completed their programs successfully, yet even at best, there are those that sooner or later go right back to their addiction.

    • chukicita

      At best, according to my friends in the industry, one in three or four will stay clean.

    • ze moo

      NarCONon has claimed a 70%+ success rate. All backed by nothing but hot air.

  • Chee Chalker

    Rehab is big business these days, so it’s actually a smart move on the cult’s part. Not only do they make huge profits on the rehab itself (because of the non professional labor pool they use – recent ‘graduates’ of Narconon) but they also can work on roping these people into the church itself as slave labor – staff or Sea Org.
    I just saw an interesting program on 20/20 or Dateline (one of those programs) on a guy who has some facilities who has been accused of giving drugs to some of the female patients and then having sex with them. Of course he’s doing the drugs as well.

    There’s big money to be made. I’m hoping most insurance companies are wise to the Narconon scam.
    Hopefully there will be standard regulations for rehab facilities implemented on a national level. Not credentials you can buy. Things like actually having a MD on staff or (gasp!) a PSYCH – someone trained in addiction medicine or therapy.

    I’m guessing eventually the Narconon name will be so toxic that they will be forced to drop it completely.

    Great report Rod!

    I might just give Suzanne Jasper a call today and book my stay at Trout Run…..

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      Book your stay at Trout Run? You know I will come and break you out right? πŸ˜‚ I’ll get one of the girls to come with me. I’d venture to say that most of them swing a hell of a bat.

      • Draco

        Me! Me! Me!
        I don’t need a bat – I sneeze FIRE!!

    • Harpoona Frittata

      I think that I caught that same recent segment on Dateline, or 20/20, that you’re referring to. It highlighted the increase in these unlicensed Sober Houses, which in certain states like Florida can be owned and run by former felons and drug addicts! Regulatory oversight varies dramatically from state to state, so the rats scurry to the cheese of corruption and incompetence wherever it turns up. For sure, $cn wants a piece of this action!

    • PeaceMaker

      I think that one of the problems, is that insurance too often doesn’t cover rehab – but it if and when it does, I assume it only covers properly accredited facilities.

      I’m guessing that Narconon mostly takes advantage of desperate people having to come up with the cost of rehab themselves, requiring the sort of emptying out of savings and retirement accounts, and loading up a debts and mortgages, that is typical of the sort of asset-stripping funding Scientology has refined in its pseudo-religious operations, and which allows them to rake in large amounts of money from small numbers of people.

  • BuberZionist

    “Narconon Arrowhead is being established newly.” The Scio who wrote that was either sleep-deprived or a high-school dropout.

    • EmmaDaoust
    • Observer

      That sounds like something Dan Sherman would write.

    • bixntram

      Likely both.

    • Elizabeth Lavet

      Don’t know where or who wrote that but it sounds to me they are implying there are upcoming changes or revamping coming up concerning Narconon in general or Narconon Arrowhead in particular. It hints at changes that would revitalize but is left unclear on purpose, in my opinion, like their evasive WOW talk. I imagine any changes or creating a completely “NEW” Narconon Arrowhead will be similar to the new tech book releases that had very small changes. The Church of Scientology is incapable of taking a rational look at themselves to make common sense changes and this includes their Narconons, which no one should mistake is very much part of The Church of Scientology.

    • MarcabExpat

      I’d say a non-native speaker.

    • PeaceMaker

      I think that the use of passive voice, is one of their mechanisms for disassociating when they’re lying, such as when they’re trying to position stagnation or even shrinkage as “expansion.”

  • Elizabeth Lavet

    I am a little confused by this article. I am sure it is just me. They are throwing in the towel and turning it into a training center- for what? Further down it states they have launch an initiative the Narconon Arrowhead Expansion Project to revitalize the site. Is Narconon in eastern Oklahoma different from the facility in Canadian Oklahoma? Somehow I thought the Oklahoma Narconon had been closed down due to deaths sometime ago, my mistake. Are there multiple Narconons labeled “Arrowhead” or is there just one? Is Narconon Arrowhead named for the town it is in and is it different from the one in eastern Oklahoma ie: are there two Narconons in Oklahoma? Anyone want to clear this up for me? I could probably google Narconons in Oklahoma and do my own research which I will do now and edit if I find my answers before I get an answer here so don’t feel pressured to enlighten me.

    • Kestrel

      Narconon Arrowhead is just outside of Canadian, Oklahoma on the shore of Lake Eufala. To my knowledge, there is only one Narconon in Oklahoma, and it was not closed down.

      • Elizabeth Lavet

        Thank you, it seems the two comments, “expansion project” and “throwing in the towel” are saying two different things, am I missing something.

        • Kestrel

          I was under the impression that Narconon Arrowhead was originally intended to be the Narconon flagship and its training center – as in “on the job training” for workers to be sent to other Narconons. In reality, that didn’t work out. Based on the flyer, they’re trying to make it their training center again. I’m guessing that, like Flag, Narconon employees would be required to go to Arrowhead for “training,” which might involve coursework and certificates and graduation ceremonies. They have a lot of square footage to eat up at the Arrowhead campus.

          • Elizabeth Lavet

            Got it, thanks. Sounds like a good old PR job to save face from having to close it as a treatment facility. However, if they are going to continue to suck in money from Narconon facilities they do need to make changes: have greater control, more training, drug testing of personnel/staff and clients, use SOME officially recognized drug treatment procedures and officially trained staff, operate recognizing the fragility of people already physically torn down by drug use and most likely poor diet. However, I doubt the ability of The Church of Scientology to take a critical look at themselves, what they are doing wrong, what they are doing that could be harming people, what they need to do to make a well rounded program (different therapies, optimum diet, addressing other health issues). They believe Scientology technology is the solution for everything but L. Ron Hubbard himself never overcame his chemical sensitivity to fragrances, was an addict himself, and failed to face his own problems and lies (much of the time). He certainly was not a model of health, physically or mentally. Even the old adage of “do as I say and not as I do” fails to make Scientology technology viable as an answer.

          • Elizabeth Lavet

            Of course the true value is not only in the money The Church of Scientology can suck from the drug treatment facility itself but also from the funneling of clients to other Scientology services. If they can afford the $35,000 plus for drug treatment they are probably a good candidate for spending more within the church itself.

  • That new(ish) Narconon Arrowhead logo looks a bit like a stylised padded cell to me:

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/137b1809a280fa0ee8b668fe8cfd32200c2fd36b5f7a6e447b275659da17f304.jpg

  • Elizabeth Lavet

    Every time I post I am reminded that one of the horrible things about The Church of Scientology is the atmosphere of fear they produce. How tragic, fear is not a vehicle of great self improvement and self awareness. I think I will post and then I think how will the “Church of Scientology” twist this to hurt me or others. The Church breeds hate and lies. This is sick, sick, sick. At some point the truth is more important then protection, truth becomes protection.

  • Observer

    Anyone know what, if anything, happened to Gary “Pornstache” Smith?

  • Nat-leficent

    https://i.imgflip.com/1s86es.jpg
    *thanks for reminder Kim

    • Newiga

      Happy birthday, Derek!! <3

    • KKat

      Happy Birthday Derek !

    • MarcabExpat

      Oooh! Oooh! Happy Birthday! Hey, Derek! Birthday!!! Happy!!!

    • TheMirrorThetan

      Happy Birthday Derek. Hope you have a great day.

  • AngryNotSoOldHippy .

    Narconon Arrowhead — Because none of the fucking shit hole criminals and murdering cunts ever went to prison for their crimes.

  • GrangerFX

    Rather than give up and sell the facility, they are turning into a training center. This begs the question: Has Scientology in recent years sold any large property or are they holding onto them all regardless of how useless, empty and/or rotting they have become?

    • PeaceMaker

      Scientology certainly hasn’t sold any prominent facilities – probably meaning, specifically, ones they would have bragged about to members, and that members would be aware of – and I doubt they will until their situation is incredibly dire, because it would be too obvious an abandonment of their supposed “expansion.” I think that all their large facilities, including Gold (though even a lot of members don’t know about it) will be retained, re-purposed, and perhaps used as centers for consolidating far-flung smaller operations in LA, with the process being propagandized as “expansion.”

      The largest property I can think of that they sold, was the campus (literally) in San Diego where they were going to move their org into an “ideal” building; instead, they ended up renovating their existing building. But that was a facility that had never actually been used, and a case that only local members would have been aware of.

  • Lousy Ratatouille

    Now let me get this straight:
    So Narconon Arrowhead is in Oklahoma Canada, it is NOT located at all in the 46st state known as the ‘Sooner State’, nor is it located in the borough of Oklahoma in Pennsylvania. (Neither is there any connection with the musical/film Oklahoma!)

    It’s quite a distance, should anyone heading for Oklahoma make a mistake about it.

    Well, OK!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-l_gIXj_zks&index=1&list=LLE5AXz6WwQVTCVFRFoOpa9w

    • Confusing, isn’t it? Every time I see Arrowhead I think of Lake Arrowhead, which is near the secret CST compound, you know, where Shelly “works” … however, this Arrowhead is in Canadian, OK

      Ok? ;D

      • Robert Eckert

        which is named for the Canadian River, which is like a thousand miles from Canada and not even threatening to head up north.

  • Bob Crouch

    So according to Hubbard the most pressing problems we’re facing are drug abuse (HE should know from plenty of personal “research!”) and the lack of fuel. Having failed at the first, perhaps the cult may want to consider a string of ideal gas stations?

  • JJ

    Just got back from putting flowers on a Jesuits grave up by Mt.St. Michael, here in Spokane, WA. CoS isn’t the only church with a gate house and cameras. And Mt St M has a very culty vibe, only the uniforms are habits and abortions a no no. They even look kinda of creepy, like they are looking at you from “inside” if you get my meanging…

  • Jimmy3

    Happy birthday, D-Block
    This isn’t what I asked for but it’s probley okay https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4dfe8e99eac51d89bfcc3fe29ed3fcfa25527e82683d4b6f583b99528364b3e3.png

    • JJ

      Good enough, lets eat it…

    • balletlady

      More cake goofs…

      http://www.oddee.com/item_96636.aspx

      maybe it’s “short hand” for congratulations on your graduation…….sounds good enough to me!!

  • Lousy Ratatouille

    “Be good for eachother …”
    (Smoking weed is optional.)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVrO1vMmFec

  • Science Doc

    Narconons typically keep a large mortgage on their properties, presumably for the usual reasons plus making them more judgment proof. I’m not sure about Arrowhead because Oklahoma is not a particularly transparent state for online searching of property records. Assuming there is a mortgage and considering the costs of keeping the power on in the main buildings, water, some grounds work, a food supply contract for 30 or 40 residents on site (staff, trainees, and vestigial clients), legally required insurance, etc., expenses will run in the neighborhood of $20 to $30 K a month for this place. If the size of the note is $2M, monthly payments will be about $10 K before property taxes (4%, 30 yr). Salaries at some point must have been $50 K a month, even if there were only six to ten people being paid well with the rest unpaid interns.

    They can just barely pay the estimated $900 K per year expenses with 10 clients averaging 4 month stays each for $30 K each. That is without sending the customary 10% uplines plus other charges for instructional materials etc. In order to keep this open and profitable in the absence of a new influx of clients, they will need a new revenue stream, and I would bet on fund raising. So, maybe the public will be regged to donate scholarships to train a new battalion of Narconon staff members (at about $20 K each for 3 to 4 months), and this will soon return Arrowhead to marginal profitability. The staff will be recruited from the usual pool of ex clients, but there could also be a summer camp like program for Drug Free Teens or such as an inducement to working in front groups or the Sea Org.

    • the idle narCONon in Denmark is owned by Social Betterment Properties International. Says so right in the central properties registry.

  • iampissed

    Ok….Totally off topic. Anyone been to Budapest?

    • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

      Lots of people have. Some people even live there.

      • iampissed

        Your opening salvo is perfection.

        • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

          I know how to make an entrance. Unfortunately it will be all downhill from here πŸ™

          • iampissed

            Well that’s what NoLoGirl said about me. I’m in exalted company.

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              If by exalted you mean ice-cream, then yes please!

            • iampissed

              I’d rather have the apple pie in Amsterdam. Second thought ice cream would be good to.

    • Jimmy3

      I’ve heard it’s the shit.

      • iampissed

        Ok back to Rick Steve’s…..he’s the shit.

    • You aren’t even going to believe this but my wife (I think you might recognize her) was just there last month.

      • iampissed

        Yes I remember her. Although the only thing I can think about is you in Commodores shorts and a tank top.

      • iampissed

        She may have to come to lunch.

      • iampissed

        Do you have contact with Kim O’Brian?
        ETA…probably butchered the last name.

        • Usually only when she calls me an asshole* here

          *paraphrasing, she uses lots of different colorful words

          • Jimmy3

            That’s not fair. You’re the opposite of an asshole.

          • iampissed

            That’s just Kim…it’s endearing words.

            • Haha, all good. I was 1/2 joking in my reply above. I can’t be bothered to revisit that thread, but she really let me have it one day. I def didn’t feel endeared.

            • iampissed

              That’s OK…She put me under the bus at Howdycon. She put out her cell number so people could contact her for info during the Con. Well as the group was talking she made the comment that she was getting strange TXT from strange people she didn’t know. She talked about a few and read them off. Well she came to a name I’m very familiar with….ME… Her comment was
              ” And who the hell is ” ME ” she didn’t say it’s a totally made up name, but I could see it in her eyes. I’m sitting behind her going…..Um Kim…..Um Kim. She turned around and said what.
              I said that’s me….true story, and I will remember it as totally loving.

            • EmmaDaoust

              Baby almost got run over by a bus.

            • Kim O’Brien

              did not mean to make you feel that way . i really loved meeting you in person .

            • iampissed

              Oh…..No…sweet Lady. It is simply a funny story. Really it is…no harm no foul.

            • Kim O’Brien

              πŸ™‚

            • iampissed

              You know perfectly well you can’t make me feel anything. And I to you…I have a friend in Denver.

            • Jimmy3

              Most awkward pickup line ever.

            • iampissed
            • Kim O’Brien

              yes you do πŸ˜‰

            • Dale

              Well I’m not half joking. She’s a vulgar blowhard with 3 words in her vocabulary. “Shit and fuck.”

            • iampissed

              Don’t forget Pot!

            • Jimmy3

              OMG. She swears? What a fucking asshole.

            • Kim O’Brien

              ugh

            • iampissed

              Hey Lady…..love ya!

            • Jimmy3

              Don’t bring that potty language in here, hooligan.

            • Kim O’Brien

              shitfuck

            • Jimmy3

              You just used 66% of your vocabulary in one word. I’m actually impressed here.

            • iampissed

              Shitfuckpot

            • Dale

              Same sentiments to you Jimmy. I do not appreciate being called an asshole by Kim O’Brien, who doesn’t know me. If you like it, good on you for sharing the august asshole community, along with Kim O’Brien.

            • Dale

              No they aren’t.

            • iampissed

              Yes they are…..sometimes your sister calls you an Ass…sometimes you are.
              Doesn’t mean she doesn’t love you.

            • Kim O’Brien

              not always , no

    • pluvo

      Yep. Why?

      • iampissed

        Headed there next year.

  • HTC

    Can’t understand why creepy Kirstie wasn’t at Maksim Chmerkovskiy’s wedding. Oh yea, maybe it was that tweet that screams she’s a class act:

    “Dear Sir..after you have ass raped me there is really no reason to include ‘I wish you the best’.. It’s rhetorical”

  • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

    New Scientology Tower Looms Above Hollywood!

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f901e7e6e87a997812f57efadf49edbaef85349c30ef61e545cff736774ad78e.png

    β€œWith record Scientology expansion comes record suppression,” said Church spokesman Ken Delusion, β€œand that is why Captain Miscavige had 24 additional stories added to the Superannuated Los Angeles Infinity Platinum Model Ideal Org.”

    β€œThe new β€˜Scientology Tower’ it has been named, β€œwill be used to conduct the Scientology religious interrogation and torture for which we are so admired by fascist regimes everywhere.”

    β€œA word of warning,” Delusion ominously added, β€œanyone caught β€˜joking’ that this very large addition is Captain Miscavige compensating for anything will be severely beaten and then hanged!”

    • Jimmy3

      Has anyone paid for the steeple yet? I got five on it

  • JaxNGold

    Pan…

    You must do one of your Hitler videos in honor of Marty. Would be hysterical!

    • Jimmy3

      Pan is in Fantasia helping Falkor find a meal.

  • Intergalactic Walrus
    • Still_On_Your_Side

      Where are these posts from? Although most of the info has been laid out in the lawsuits of others, the blackmail threat to release personal info is new to me. This threat is so illegal in so many ways, it boggles the mind. Just when I thought scientology couldn’t go any lower…..

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        It was posted on Facebook.

        • Still_On_Your_Side

          Thanks

    • Science Doc

      Sunshine Summit is 45 minutes from Temecula, a decent little city but one without commercial air service. The road however is CA 79, which is going to look remote, rural, windy, and somewhat dangerous to many people. I can always spot an out of state driver far ahead based on their tentative approaches to the curves.

  • Intergalactic Walrus
  • Extry! Extry! Hot off the presses:

    The few ScientologistsΒ willing to speak said they weren’tΒ into politics. A couple of staff members (one from Italy and one from Colombia) were quickly whisked away by people who appeared to be their superiors.

    http://www.thewrap.com/i-visited-scientology-street-one-of-trumps-rare-l-a-strongholds/

    • Intergalactic Walrus

      Hey Duck, can you explain what’s going on in this photo taken at FLAG? At first I thought it looked like a penguin but now I think it is a DUCK! :O
      (refresh)
      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a8b03a08c4f9adbb642273941731e1c79f2b7b5cc83585772f5bc68693782dfc.jpg

      • I think that’s a woman. The one on the right is a platypus. Looks like he sustained some injuries while serving in the Russian Navy, no idea why he’s carrying a vintage TWA flight attendant’s bag … uh, Scientology!

        • Puget Buckeye

          Whatever kind of animal it is, it looks like it on speed. Look at those eyes!

      • Observer

        That’s a representation of Scientology, the albatross around her neck.

      • Jimmy3

        That duck is pissed they stuck a bunch of scrap metal on him

      • Tony Ortega

        Is that Colonel Webspread?

        • Jimmy3

          Worst porn name ever.

      • ombrifuge

        Looks like he’s got a Freedom Medal of Valour, or something.

      • grundoon

        It’s Colonel Webspread, star of an unfunny comic that sometimes appeared in old SO bulletins.

        ETA: Robert Worstell drew a series of Colonel Webspread comics when he was on staff in LA “around 1994.” He has posted the whole collection. He’s no longer in Scientology, btw.

        ETA: I don’t know who created the Colonel Webspread character… someone on the Apollo. Worstell apparently revived the character, with a different, cartoonier drawing style. (The old Apollo ones appear to be traced. So far as I’ve heard, Arthur Hubbard was the only one with art skills on the Apollo, but his paintings are weirder and not traced.)

        • Jimmy3

          And here I thought they only ripped off Disney properties.

        • Intergalactic Walrus

          Yikes! Soon to be starring in his own Saturday morning tv show on SMP?

          • EmmaDaoust

            Tennessee Tuxedo will NOT fail!

        • Observer

          You ain’t kidding about it being unfunny. 😯

    • Tony Ortega

      Hm. He was reporting that story back when we were in Denver. I talked to him numerous times, and I think his story was going to be a lot longer than that. Might have run into some resistance from editors.

      • Interesting. I was contemplating giving you a head’s up, but after reading it, and aside from his personal interaction, you already had it covered w/ more in-depth info in your post from a few months ago.

    • Intergalactic Walrus

      James Kronwall is the same clam in this previous LA Times article about the same thing. http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-pol-scientology-trump-hollywood-20170119-story.html

      • Maybe Tony should forget about Karin Pouw (sorry, she’s just not that into you) and get in touch w/ Kronwell from now on. He seems keen to talk.

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    Anyone notice that besides the weird facial tics, long pauses and throat clearing Marty also gets hung up on certain words and phrases and repeats them again and again? Irregardless of what he is saying, just his behavior would make a casual observer think he was a nut. I’m wondering if these videos are a lame CO$ attempt to manufacture a “controversy” so that Aftermath won’t get an Emmy nomination.
    (refresh)
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/56ac05af6abe1eccfd0d718f031776b755283a5261e3e54873829862775e3410.png

    • Rasha

      “…Oscar Considered!!…”

    • Eclipse-girl

      I think you have the right idea.

      Sickentology will have an absolute cow if the “The Aftermath’ was nominated.

  • Observer

    The Creston ranch is not far from where O’Donovan Rd meets Highway 58. Like, a mile or so.

    http://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/local/article160420204.html

  • Scientology’s Remini slander site is now just one behind on Marty’s videos, with all the talking points for each one. I guess they’re careful not to add the next ones before they go up on Marty’s blog.

    • Jimmy3

      It’s cute how they’re taking their time, step by step, to fully incorporate his videos into their smear machine. It’s like they believe if they drag it out, no one will connect the dots. It’s just a random thing that fell in our lap! We’re still piecing it together!

  • Intergalactic Walrus
    • Observer

      Under this administration that might be enough to get her the job. πŸ™

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        Didn’t he appoint Newt’s current wife to be ambassador to the Vatican? SMH

        • Liberated

          Yep, the poor thing needs new eye drops first – she only blinks 4 times a month. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/bb2c78e5224dd29c6826be06c9bee8b60abfcbb4aa68279bc4914b4915a87115.jpg

          • Puget Buckeye

            Wasn’t she his math teacher? Seriously.

            • Liberated

              I don’t know…but that chick freaks me out !

            • Puget Buckeye

              I’m mistaken. It was his first wife that was his high school geometry teacher. Wide eyes is his third wife.

            • Liberated

              He was cheating on wife no.1 with wife no.2 – while 1 was dying of cancer.
              Then he was cheating on wife no.2 with bug-eyes – but he’s a good catholic.

              What I just don’t get at all….it why anyone would wanna fuck Newt ?
              I just don’t get it !

            • Robert Eckert

              “Then he was cheating on wife no.2 with bug-eyes” while lying about it, and impeaching Clinton for lying about an affair.

            • Liberated

              Oh, I know I was gonna add that bit too, but got tired of talking about newt.
              Will he ever go away ?

            • Mark Foster

              Money$$$$

          • Phoebequeen

            OMG

      • Jimmy3

        Trump will appoint her President of Ireland. And he can do that if the corrupt media doesn’t try to stop him.

        • chukicita

          CEO of the U.K.

          • We have a nice office for her where she will be taken great care of.

            It’s padded, so that she won’t hurt herself, and will be securely locked and guarded to protect her from assassins.

        • Robert Eckert

          The new Taoiseach of Ireland (pronounced “tea shack” if you were wondering) is gay. So the job of First Lady of Ireland is vacant.

    • “100% Irish on her mother’s side…”. Are they trying to say ‘her mother is Irish’.?

    • oh, great … if she gets the gig, how much you wanna bet there will be 87.5 Scientologists in Ireland reported on the next census?

  • Intergalactic Walrus
    • is it 100% Cotton or 100% Cotton?

      eti: and is that the Bridge chart on the back?

    • Supper Powers

      Who will be the first to review this item? I’m on pins and needles.

      • Liberated

        Maybe they’ll “let” Marty try it out first. The boy needs a change.

      • JJ

        Not. Too likely the fabric is infused with a neurotoxin that makes you want to give your money to anyone who offers salvation in a can.

    • Liberated

      That would be a great shirt to wear to run around a pole 14 hours a days – in the hot desert sun.

  • Fly Lady

    Do you think narconon treats LEGO DIMENSION addiction? Asking for a friend.

    • Jimmy3

      If you know someone who is struggling, it’s not the best idea to wait, and research and ask questions. Just get them enrolled ASAP, and sort it out later when you have more time.

      • Fly Lady

        You’re right. Where should I send the cash? I’ve got it in wads right now but could proabably get it into stacks if need be.

        • Jimmy3

          For tax purposes, you have to buy 9,999 copies of Battlefield Earth through your nearest ASI agent. Then they give the receipt to Narconon and your stay is partially credited. If it’s too much of a hassle, just give the money to me and I’ll sort it. But I’m really busy with business stuff…

          • Fly Lady

            Thanks doctor.

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          You can send the cash to me, c/o Big Pharma. We’ll take good care of Fly, not to worry about a thing.

  • outraged

    Uplifting thread at ESMB, albeit with some horrific info.
    Someone left the Kult, figured it out on their own and got the hell out of dodge.
    Finally decided to post their story, with few details to protect the innocent.

    How GALLING to leave a religion IN SECRET you gave thousands and thousands of dollars, time and sweat.
    NO thanks, NO congrats, NO job well done. Only fear and homophobia and prejudice.
    Scientology is not JUST a cult, it is an INSECURE one. Needing constant reassurance and re-juicing.

    http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?44056-Was-in-for-10-years-left-quietly-5-years-ago

    • That’s my thesis – that many Scientologists don’t so much believe, as constantly suspend disbelief, and this is why the CofS socially isolate members and insist on them sitting through “constant reassurance and re-juicing”,

      For many member it’s an “insecure” and fragile faith that cannot survive exposure to the wider world..

  • Intergalactic Walrus
    • Rasha

      An honest person wants to give the individual they are dealing with the benefit of the doubt – that they will “get the hint”. But they have already scripted out the “Benefit of the Doubt” weakness to exploit the human side of the equation. Hell, I caught on to this back in the …. well, a couple of decades ago, when the phone calls started. They know the Hard Sell, and “Getting Past No”. They don’t give a shit if you have medical treatments, mortgage issues, or family tragedy. “It’s just $50!!!”.

      They want the money, and they want you to give it to them.

    • The ‘personality test’ is supposed to break your self-esteem by ‘indicating’ that you are in a terrible state and urgently need the help that only Scientology can provide – so the ‘standard’ way of doing this would be to give the victim the results first.

      So, how did we come to the situation where this guy was fighting for his credit card and asking for his results? Why did the Scientologists jump the gun? Perhaps because he wanted to be given his results and leave – because he obviously wasn’t going to hang around to have them ‘explained’.

      The insults could be understood as an attempt to do what the ‘explanation’ of the results was supposed to achieve – break down his self-esteem.

  • nottrue
    • Is that really how she refers to JAW?

      • Observer

        Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!

    • Observer

      Oh dear Xenu. She and Kirstie should be bffs. When Gemma’s vajayjay mouths off Kirstie can punch it (since K is always going on about vagina punching).

    • Puget Buckeye

      I have a difficult time following “conversations” on twitter. Is she responding to the Squeeze My Cans announcement? If so, how would her vagina know one way or the other? Someone please help me understand.

    • Supper Powers
    • Syd

      Her vagina talks?

      • Puget Buckeye

        Doesn’t yours? hahaha

        • Syd

          Sometimes, she can be pretty snarky.
          I have so many vile jokes running through my head right now…. πŸ™‚

          • Puget Buckeye

            I know what you mean. I never imagined convo on the Bunker would take this turn! I need a glass of wine.

            • Taffy Sinclair

              I once showed my boobs on the bunker, so , yeah, there you go.

            • Puget Buckeye

              Did you at least get some beads in return?

            • Taffy Sinclair

              Sadly, no. I only got crass comments from Jimmy and Johnny Tank.

              It was worth it!!!!

            • Robert Eckert

              Well Johnny at least has shown his butt. Jimmy hasn’t shown anything unless I missed it.

            • Taffy Sinclair

              They both have nothing on Greg Wilhere when it comes to harassing Miss Taffy. Which is sad, cuz Greg is a lame lover…. πŸ™

            • ExCult.Jan
            • Puget Buckeye

              Sure, there’s enough for everyone!

          • Phoebequeen

            I am glad I am not the only one .

      • Supper Powers

        OT10

      • Eclipse-girl

        That is a way to creep out you sexual partner.

        In the new TV series ‘American Gods,’ there is a goddess who consumes people thorugh her vagina

        • Syd

          Seriously! Ha!
          I’m pretty sure think I know some real life girls who do that too. πŸ™‚

          • Eclipse-girl

            Protect your sons, father and brothers.

        • Taffy Sinclair

          Vagina Dentata??

          • ExCult.Jan

            I read that as Vagina Dementia. Ha! I have that. Which is probably a good thing.

        • Phoebequeen

          There was a movie I think I saw on Sundance Channel and a girl had a vagina that would bite off penises. I forgot what it was called. It was dark and funny.

          • Puget Buckeye

            Terrific. On top of all the vagina talking nonsense, now I’ve got the music from Jaws mixed up in there.

            • Phoebequeen

              Snort!

          • Frodis73

            Love that movie! I think it’s called Teeth and was on Netflix for awhile….prob still is.

            • Phoebequeen

              Yeah, that sounds right. It was bizarre.

      • Marshall

        One of my favorite lines from Gilmore Girls is when Rory asks Paris if Asher Fleming died while they were in bed. “This great man was not brought down by my vagina, okay?”

      • Phoebequeen

        Yours doesn’t ? Uh, oh. I may need to call doctor today. I have been having , what I thought was private conversations with mine for years now. Damn. She is so funny too.

      • Taffy Sinclair

        Vagina talks. Bullshit walks.

  • chukicita

    So totally OT:

    I have an old photo that is damaged, but really needs to be restored so it can be part of a celebration of life event for a very dear friend who recently walked on. But I have no idea what this kind of service costs. I was able to make a 600 dpi scan of the photo original.

    So I asked a coworker in graphics what kind of prices I would expect to see for that service and showed him the image. He said he could fix it, but he never answered my question. I’d like to pay him for his effort. He said he would do it at home over the weekend.

    So how much would not be an insult to give him? Any advice from our Bunker shoop community welcome.

    • Observer

      Can you post a pic? It depends on how bad and what kind the damage is.

      • chukicita

        I don’t have it on my tablet to post. The photo has probably been in the same photo album for 30 years. We coul not remove it from the sleeve without the emulsion sticking to the plastic, and there was significant black mold in the lower left quarter. There are three people in it, and two are in good shape but there needs a bit of repair on the face and clothing on the most important one. I think the scan came out decently. Wish I could show you.

        • Observer

          If you can take a pic of it with your phone or tablet that should be good enough for evaluation purposes.

    • Rasha

      I would like to see the pics. I’ve done some cleanup work with scans and digital pics of old photos in my day.

    • Syd

      I work for a company that does color correction / cloning / and some restoration. We charge $125 an hour. I’m sure your friend would never expect that (probably won’t accept anything for it), but that gives you some idea of what the industry would charge.

      • chukicita

        Thanks. That is what I needed to know!

    • Jimmy3

      $1 per pixel sounds about right. But I’m hard of hearing and I tend to make shit up. Hope this helps.

    • April

      Post it on Reddit with the back story and hobbyists there will probably do it for free.
      https://www.reddit.com/r/estoration/

      • chukicita

        Thanks, but my colleague is already working on it. I just want to know what would be fair to pay him!

  • Intergalactic Walrus
  • Observer

    The fire near the Creston ranch is getting bigger and mandatory evacuation has started.

    http://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/local/article160420204.html

    To give you an idea, I’ve circled one of the referenced evacuation areas, and just north of that circled the ranch property. My guess is they’ve been told to evacuate. Whether they will is another issue.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a0de9d6b56f391f9223939aa7bb92ed7086e418a22cb561298a6b3c9cd85302c.jpg

  • Taffy Sinclair

    Who in the actual fuck goes to Cancun for drug rehab??? People go there to get their drink on!!!

    Hello, Scientology?? Anyone home?? Naw, I didn’t think so.

    • JJ

      Is that one of those tax shelter islands?….

      • Taffy Sinclair

        No, it’s part of Mexico, the country! Not indy-pendent (like FreeZone.)

        • JJ

          Oh that’s right Cancun like Cabo… It’s too hot to think geographically. Now how are Scientology’s relations with Mexico?

  • Phoebequeen

    Looking at the pics of the places closed, if they sold them, they could be nice boutique hotels. I don’t think they sell off property from what I have read.

    • Taffy Sinclair

      No, they don’t. It’s a sign of “expansion.” Weird, I know.

      • Phoebequeen

        Yeah, that is what I thought too. They can pad their numbers by pointing out how many centers they have.

      • Baby

        TAFFY .. Gurl where ya bin?

        • Taffy Sinclair

          Boston! But I’m back and badder than ever!! I wish i coulda gone to denver…😣

          • Baby

            OH Yay… I know taff.. Chicago next year!

    • JJ

      I wonder if Scientology is going to go out like it came in, a Ponzi scheme masquerading as a betterment religion.

    • Supper Powers

      They sold an org in Syracuse to the city to make a parking deck.

      • Phoebequeen

        Really? I’m in that area! I had wondered if there were any loons around here and hadn’t seen any. When was this?

        • Supper Powers

          Look at the YouTube channel My Clarity After Scientology. He discusses it in one of the first 3 videos he made. I’m sorry I cannot be more specific.

          • Phoebequeen

            Thanks, I will look for it. Now , I gotta wonder if I have parked it the garage before.

          • Phoebequeen

            I watched the videos. Very good. But, I think you must have meant Buffalo, NY, not Syracuse. I have looked up to see if there were any in this area and I only could see the Buffalo ones. Tom Cruise is from this area though. Grew up in North Syracuse.

            • Supper Powers

              Ah! I’m not familiar with most of NY. I apologize.

            • Phoebequeen

              That’s ok. The videos are good. I always like learning about why people left. Buffalo is western NY, Niagara Falls area. Syracuse is central NY. Rochester is in between them. It’s a big state.

  • FredEX2

    For those who haven’t seen this important docu-video “Scientologists at War” here’s a link that still works.
    https://youtu.be/c-RVYHpQDqE

    • Phoebequeen

      Oooh, thanks. I will bookmark to view later.

    • Robert Ramsay

      I have a ton of time for the folks at CBC ! πŸ™‚

  • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

    Hey young people! Here’s a groovy free CD offer from your friends at Scientology. We’re the coolest religion on Earth! Just fill out the card and mail it in or drop by your nearest Org. If you come to an Org don’t tell your parents or anyone else where you’re going because they’re SP’s and wouldn’t understand. Only we understand. We’re your friends and you can even meet Tom Cruise. Far out!

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a341b4d01b8f7229dc30633d88feafb833ab23900051c25515309216963672f5.jpg

    • Jimmy3

      Typical Scientology bullshit. You finally get your VCR fixed, and they start offering “compact discs”. Can never keep up with this.

      • Puget Buckeye

        You can probably ask for it on reel to reel. But you may have to pay postage.

      • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

        Jimmy3, we will give you a VCR copy of RJ67 but you’ll have to come into the Org to get it. Just go in the back door and walk down the secret back stairs. It’s safe. Just don’t tell anyone you’re going to the Org. It has to be kept secret. We don’t anyone to know you went to the Org.

        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a79715a872b7dc1c0b277a60ff89fbd009f41c948ac0e2a724d196f31cc6ceeb.jpg

        • Puget Buckeye

          Yeah, but before he goes into the cellar, do you have it on Betamax? I think that’s the kind of VCR he has. Don’t want him to waste a trip.

        • Jimmy3

          If I had more self-respect, this would probably seem like a bad idea.

          See you tommorow.

    • NerdHerd

      Could I have them telex me a transcript? LOLOLOL

      • Puget Buckeye

        I hope you have lots of ribbon. LRH is kind of wordy.

        • NerdHerd

          At least its LRH and not Marty O.o

    • chukicita
      • Liberated

        I can’t remember, I think I might have had pants like that.

        • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

          Can you check to see if you still have those pants? COB would like to borrow them for the IAS event.

    • PeaceMaker

      Is that a shoop, or real?

      Ron’s Journal ’67 is some of the crazy I thought they were trying to kept swept under the rug. Stuff like the “twelve men,” and the Sea Org being composed of all OTs (never happened!).

    • PeaceMaker

      I guess I have to assume this is actually real, in which case my comment is, that it does have a sort of rally the troops against the arrayed forces of evil vibe to it, which fits with their current situation. I think it says something that they are reaching back to Hubbard’s strange days at sea, though I wonder if they have edited some of the oddest material out of it.

      • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

        It is a real advertisement.

        • PeaceMaker

          Thanks for the confirmation. I’d scrutinized it and all the details looked correct – but if I recall, you’ve posted some pretty convincing-looking shoops in the past.

          I’m kind of flabbergasted they’re distributing that, rather than limiting it strictly to members at a level where they’ve become accustomed to listening to a lot of Ron’s tapes, though perhaps the mailing itself was selective. The SHSBC has been pulled, apparently because Miscavige doesn’t know what to do about exposing newer members to Hubbard’s recordings from that period.

          • Noesis

            It is being distributed out of a new department on the Org Board, located in Div 5 (Qual.)

            The hat is that of Chief of Poe’s Law.

            Everything that comes out of that department must be inspected three times to ensure that it is both legitimate and not a deliberate hoax.

            It’s also why Ron developed QUAL in the first place.

            Now that the Org Board has been corrected, global clearing can finally occur on a fast flow basis, with no stops.

            • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

              Poe’s Law is unmocking the form of the Org and the Org Board itself.

          • Liberated

            I thought everyone knew journal 67 is absolute horseshit – what difference does it make if it’s distributed or not.

            • PeaceMaker

              I think it may be telling, that Scientology is distributing that now, when for quite a while they seem to have been making an effort to “disappear” the more far-out and embarrassing material.

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    “LRH: The Heidi Years”
    or
    “The hills are the alive, with the sound of bull$h!t…”
    (refresh)
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/031d4ff4cde4b6470c16a596bc130cc711979b048cc19f98e07353632b9202c7.jpg

    • Liberated

      That’s LRon in his Cecil Rhodes hat, when he was trying to take over Rhodesia – little did he know Cecil was gay.

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        A real visual treat, ain’t it? :O

      • NerdHerd
        • Liberated

          Who hoo…hey Ronnie, what up ?

          • NerdHerd

            Shame he never went to prison :/ bet he would have been REALLY popular with the boys. “Hey….I’ll trade you half a burnt cigarette and some belly button lint for Hubbard….”

        • EmmaDaoust

          Finian’s Rainbow.
          Hands off me Lucky Charms.
          They’re magically delicious.

          Damn! I’m still channeling Clover Boy.

        • Noesis

          This is the sort of unspoken reference that if viewed out of context would be absolutely lost on those who have not been swirling in entheta for some time.

          And it’s hilarious.

    • EmmaDaoust

      What’s the shade of that jacket? Is it.. could it be… Rathbrown?

      • Supper Powers

        You win a Jimmy3 award for that crack.

        • EmmaDaoust

          I’m thpeechleth.

          • Puget Buckeye

            Now, time to wipe off the screen or the words will look all funny.

            • EmmaDaoust

              thankth

  • Evey Hammond

    Off topic, but Tom Cruise was spotted visiting the Auckland Ideal Morgue, and he liked what he saw. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11888406

    • Lily2

      Trying to stay as far away from “The Mummy” reviews. I just can’t, even his name seems to annoy me.

    • He’s really down to earth, so it was just nice to have him here and that he would want to come see this.”

      Tom Cruise still can’t fly!

  • NerdHerd
    • Puget Buckeye

      But but, he also has no heart and no courage.

      • GrangerFX

        Has suit. Will babble.

  • Observer
    • daisy

      I do not look at anybody that way but I have the same face if there is sauerkraut on it.

  • outraged

    Alright, who’s responsible for this? πŸ˜‚
    https://www.gofundme.com/get-a-new-suit-for-marty-rathbun

    • NerdHerd

      I LAUGHED MYSELF SICK BAAAAHAHAHAHAHA. Saw this at ESMB πŸ˜‰

  • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/36f6b6a3abc3e3d2de95f1effee4e26dc7e6b0bbd21052f2c45d395ddb64edd8.jpg

    Public Notice: The Church of Scientology has adopted a Flat Earth cosmology after finding lost tech written by the Founder. Scientologists have never believed in the lies of science and now have even more reasons to not believe the lies. Commander Marty Rathbun will be delivering a lecture exposing the Anti-Flat Earth Cult (AFEC) next week at Flag. Commander Rathbun was there. The so-called round earth is false. Never happened. It’s an invented narrative created to siphon off hundreds of trillions of tax dollars to the Psychs at NASA so they can fund the CIA, Interpol, SMERSH, Starbucks, and other front groups that have been trying to destroy Scientology since thetans mocked up the Earth 8,000 years ago and then lit the Sun using a butane torch.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBknhF8AMgs

    • Supper Powers

      I weep for this country.

    • EmmaDaoust

      UNDER A DOME???!!! Oh, so that’s why the cats can’t knock everything off.

    • PeaceMaker

      The Flat Earth conspiracy theory is just the sort of misdirection that the puppetmasters sew in order to hide the real truth (which, obviously, isn’t the sphere earth propaganda line, either*). Truly clever manipulators realize that, factually, one third of the population will not believe the “news” and “science” propaganda they are fed, and so need to be provided an alternative truth to satisfy and distract them – but one that is also not the actual truth being kept from them.

      I could tell you the truth, but The Bunker isn’t ready for it yet. But I’ll provide a hint for the deep thinkers (including, of course, Mr. Rathbun): where do the Marcabs and the Nazis hide?

      * and no, I’m also not just referring to the pseudoscience claiming the earth is slightly off round

    • Jimmy3

      Idiots. Yes the earth is flat, but it wasn’t always that way. The globalists flattened it after man was kicked out of Eden.

      • daisy

        .. or when I fell off the roof . all that pie .

        • Liberated

          Where the hell you been ?

          • daisy

            I violated my parole . They only give you a little computer time in the big house.

            • Liberated

              Ooo, can I see your bracelet?

            • daisy

              Sorry gave it to my prison wife.

            • Liberated

              Aww…that’s kinda sweet !

        • Puget Buckeye

          Pie made you fall of the roof?

          • daisy

            I was on the roof having * me * time and J3 said something so funny I fell off. The pie made me bounce ,

            • Puget Buckeye

              Well, ok then. That makes total sense.

      • Noesis

        Well…that proves it.

        I don’t really understand how you could offer this as a counter argument.

    • Eclipse-girl

      I watched for vid for shits and giggles.

      All I came away with is that the person who made this vid did not attend puplic school, but either was home schooled or attended a religious school.

      SMH

      • Puget Buckeye

        Thanks for takin’ one for the team. I started to watch it, stopped after about 20 seconds.

        • Liberated

          I was thinkin’ the same thing.

          If the earth is flat, how come nobody has ever gone to the edge and fallen off ?

          • Supper Powers
            • Liberated

              Good luck brother.

            • Eclipse-girl

              That is beautiful. Thank you

              πŸ™

          • Puget Buckeye

            But they did fall off. But there’s a ginormo up draft. And when you fall of the edge, the up draft catches you and puts you back on earth. And it’s so smooth and all that you don’t know that you fell off the edge of the earth. And you go on believing the lies of the evil scientists. and stuff. The end.

            • Liberated

              Well okay, thanks for ‘splainin it.

            • Puget Buckeye

              I’m happy to help. I’m full of explanations. Or something.

            • Eclipse-girl

              Was that ‘man – splaining?”

              Ducks for cover

            • Puget Buckeye

              No.

          • Noesis

            The ones that fell off were never heard from again.

            It’s a self cleaning oven.

            And it proves that science is nonsense.

            • Liberated

              Now I’m freaked out.

          • PeaceMaker

            I respectfully suggest that Puget Buckeye, is just pulling your leg.

            The people who go to the edge of the earth and fall off, aren’t going to come back and tell you about it, are they? Have you ever had someone you knew, seemingly vanish off the face of the earth (as the saying goes)? Guess what happened to them!

            • Liberated

              No, the people I’m thinking of always seem to return.

            • PeaceMaker

              You must live pretty far from the edge, then.

            • Liberated

              Yes, and it’s very humid.

            • PeaceMaker

              Probably vapor from all the chemtrails. But that’s a conversation for another time.

            • Puget Buckeye

              I’m not pulling anyone’s leg. Or other appendage. People fall of the end of the earth everyday. But the up draft deposits you back on earth. Light as a feather. You don’t even know it happened to you. The end. (welcome to my twisted story telling.)

            • PeaceMaker

              That’s a good story, and I particularly like the conviction with which you tell it.

            • Puget Buckeye

              What can I say? It’s a gift. In my next story, I’ll try to work in unicorns and rainbows. Stay tuned.

            • PeaceMaker

              I get the impression that chemtrails are a crowd-pleaser here. They are harder to work in than aliens, though.

            • Puget Buckeye

              I can work in chemtrails. I have a good imagination.

          • Eclipse-girl

            At least Rincewind (and Two Flowers) went over the edge in Disc World

            • Liberated

              Uh, now I get it.

            • Eclipse-girl

              Its fine if the reference is obscure. My Bro hates the books. Mr E and I love them. We make a diverse world.

          • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

            If you had watched the video you would’ve learned that the flat earth is surrounded by an immense wall of ice. This wall keeps the oceans and ships from falling over the edge. You would’ve also learned that the Moon is a transparent disc.

            • Liberated

              I didn’t want to watch the video, cause I just can’t handle the truth.

            • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

              Can you handle a broom?

            • Liberated

              Huh ?

          • Todd Tomorrow

            My neighbor thinks the earth is flat but it somehow doesn’t screw up her astrology shit.

            • Mark Foster

              Hmmm…new source for killer weed…

            • ExCult.Jan

              Wow. That’s all I got. Just wow.

      • Frodis73

        I watched too…comments disabled on all his vids. Watched a 2nd one, not only is he a flat earth freak he ties it all with the occult. I usually saw I weep for this country and the future…but I’m
        just terrified at this point. smdh

        • Eclipse-girl

          As much as there is an income gap in this country (and many others), we have an education gap that only appears to be growing. That is an issue that no one is talking about. It is exaserbated by our politicians who do not understand science, and yet sit on committes for having some basic knowledge should be a prequisite.

    • GrangerFX

      Don’t laugh too hard.
      https://youtu.be/2KK_kzrJPS8

    • Noesis

      I have found that the credibility of folks that speak with the flat affect and accent of the New Jersey / Philadelphia, Long Island area – is beyond reproach.

      I look to them for tips on fashion, culture and literature and I always submit to their knowingness about matters related to the law, philosophy and science.

      I do however prefer not to fly in airplanes piloted by them. Otherwise, I’m cool.

  • Liberated

    I turned on PBS and there’s the end of a Cyndi Lauper concert – damn she’s good !

  • NerdHerd

    NEW PROGRAMMING FOR SMP!!! COB, generous as he is, will be performing with Marty Rathbun in the COS remake of “The Wizard of OZ” where Dave will be assisting Marty with getting a heart, brain, and courage! All Marty did to pay for these services was sell his soul and every shred of decency he had left. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1e8de4cb5c84c18fb5e553bf53149479837738695976d60dc5bc5caacbecdea7.jpg

    • Puget Buckeye

      That’s it!!!

      • NerdHerd

        YES!!! Thanks for the idea πŸ˜€
        In this version, the good witch gets blown up by the Wizard (LRH) and the evil witch at the end. Dave-orthy kills the Wizard and takes over OZ.

        • Puget Buckeye

          But what happens to the evil witch? Let me guess. Witch flips and flops, every which way. But ends up on YouTube in a brown jacket, having gone back to the dark side. And in the end, having to share the bunkhouse with the flying monkeys that take all his corn chips. Something like that?

    • Noesis

      Creepy.

  • Puget Buckeye

    Time to say goodnight to the Bunker and the screen. I’m out.

  • Todd Tomorrow

    All sorts of religious cults prey on Russia since there is no real free place to get treatment. I know the Christians are there..

  • Eivol Ekdal

    Good morning Bunker.

  • 0tessa

    Anyone familiar with the Stanford experiment in relation to Scientology’s Sea Org operations?
    I would like to read about it. The outcome of this experiment could explain why Sea Org members accept abuse and/or commit it themselves.
    (Ed.) It could even have some bearing on Rathbun’s behaviour then and now.
    Any reaction welcome.

  • TheKremlinCandidate

    With Scientology membership ever shrinking (Latest Australian census done in 2016 reveals numbers have dropped to 1681) they have to get their money from somewhere… seems drug users and desperate families are an easier target than convincing someone to pay for faith.
    That Europe is still a strong market for them does not surprise me, given their penchant for giving refuge to any ideology in the name of diversity. Russia, however, might just be working up to their removal if the banning of JW is any sign. I certainly hope so.

  • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

    HAHAHAHAHA!! I love when people call me saying “I’m not feeling too good, you think it’d be okay if I just stayed home today?”

    WHY do these people think I’m the nice one? I’m like, call my husband (your boss) cause you truly have a better chance with him. Just heard the words “Hell No Man!” coming from the closet. LOL Just another Monday morning at the crazy house. πŸ™‚

    • Newiga

      50 unread urgent emails in my inbox and counting. :-X

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        ((((hugs)))) Wish we could share an office so at least we could cut up between emails. πŸ˜‚

        • Newiga

          I know! That would be so cool! We’d make ‘smore on Friday. πŸ˜›

          • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

            If I was lucky enough to share an office with you love, you’d have your own personal S’mores machine in there. ; )

            • Newiga

              Aaaaw! That’s so sweet! I’d be the lucky one. xxoo

  • Adrien Marcel Drea

    are they closed now in croatia they were around the city of split years ago

  • Jgg2012

    What next? Will they recast this training center into a church?

  • Elizabeth Lavet

    I am always amazed that giving to IAS is seen akin to “helping people”. In Scientology a person can’t really help another directly, since Scientology believes they make the able more able and people have to have an exchange (money) for classes. They do not lower prices or give classes free. But one can give millions to IAS and considered they have done all they can to not fail to help one person. This does not add up.