You can either make a one-time donation to the site via Paypal...

...or you can subscribe and get billed monthly:

To join our e-mail list & get daily updates on new stories, e-mail us at
RSS Feed
Click here to add The Underground Bunker to your RSS Reader

Renovations for Scientology’s planned Mexico City ‘Advanced Org’ halted by local pols

[Scientology’s rendering of the finished Advanced Org project.]

Rod Keller has been keeping a close eye on Scientology’s attempted expansion in Mexico, and he has a surprising report for us today…

In 2008 Scientology purchased the vacant Palmas Plaza shopping mall in the tiny Lomas del Olivo neighborhood west of Mexico City. They announced to the Scientology world that it would become the home of AOSH LATAM, the Advanced Org Saint Hill for Latin America, a Sea Org base devoted to delivering some of the upper levels of Scientology. Not an Ideal Org such as the one in central Mexico City, it would be a total renovation to the standard of other Ideal Advanced Orgs and plans to build a private hotel on top of the mall were promoted. But they didn’t let the neighbors in on the plan.


With a sense of urgency typical for Scientology projects, on December 15, 2016 they received a one year permit to conduct repairs. They didn’t start the renovations until March of this year, when more than 100 workers were hired to create a gleaming white structure, complete with the star and laurel symbol of the Sea Org, about which L. Ron Hubbard wrote, “adopted and used as the symbol of a Galactic Confederation far back in the history of this sector. The laurel wreath represents victory. The five pointed star signifies rising towards the point of origin or source.”


The neighbors were alarmed by the increase in traffic of construction vehicles, and further alarmed to learn the identity of the property owner. They appealed to elected officials, and on April 28 Mayor Enrique Vargas del Villar, in consultation with Governor Eruviel Avila suspended work on the site, placing banners across all entrances that the work cannot continue as the permit has expired.


On Sunday the banners were ripped in half, and some neighbors suspect Scientologists of having damaged them. Other possible suspects include the vandals who damaged the Catholic church on the same block earlier last week.


The facility is part of Scientology’s plan to open new Advanced Orgs in South Africa, Canada and Mexico, and they have been recruiting members to sign the billion-year contract of the Sea Org. The members would work long hours, and be paid pennies per hour to host affluent Scientologists as they work their way up the OT, or Operating Thetan levels. Scientologists are audited by Sea Org members, paying tens of thousands of dollars to develop the superhuman powers promised by completing the levels. Each Advanced Org is part of a military-style base, consisting of the Advanced Org, the administrative Continental Liaison Office (CLO), a “berthing” in which Sea Org members sleep in crowded and often unsanitary barracks, and plush hotels for the visiting public members. The berthing for AOSH LATAM has yet to be identified, but the church buses Sea Org members to and from most other Advanced Orgs every day, including weekends and holidays.


Some neighbors are organizing to prevent the facility from opening at all, citing increased traffic and Scientology’s history of human rights violations. The work order suspension can be appealed; it seems likely that a new permit will eventually be issued, and the work will resume. As they did at the similar AOSH ANZO facility outside of Sydney, Australia, they will claim that traffic will be light because of the Sea Org buses, and that publics will rarely leave the base while they are going OT. Scientology doesn’t give up its plans easily.


Scientology has held briefings by Sea Org members in Mexico as well as Central and South America to describe the “final step to achieve an OT future for all Latin America.” It will be more convenient for Latin American Scientologists to come to AOSH LATAM rather than PAC base in Los Angeles or Flag Land Base in Clearwater, Florida. Members are promised that an Advanced Org is a prelude to opening Ideal Orgs in other countries. There are active fundraising projects to open such locations in Mexico City, Costa Rica, Argentina, Brazil, Venezuela and more are likely in the early stages.

— Rod Keller


Bonus items

Mark Ebner spotted this gem — Burbank’s mayor declares a special day for Scientology’s front group, Youth for Human Rights…


On Sunday, we posted a photo of David Miscavige in Miami with the local officials who were wrangled into speaking at the grand opening of the Ideal Org there. One of them was Miami mayor Tomás Regalado. Our friend Tim Elfrink over at the Miami New Times explained in a great piece why the participation of Regalado, known for his human rights stance, is so galling, and he even got the mayor to explain why he spoke up for Scientology, which he considers a “legitimate religion,” just like Catholicism.



Countdown to Denver!


HowdyCon 2017: Denver, June 23-25 at the Residence Inn Denver City Center. Go here to start making your plans, and book your room soon!


Scientology disconnection, a reminder

Bernie Headley has not seen his daughter Stephanie in 4,738 days.
Quailynn McDaniel has not seen her brother Sean in 1,841 days.
Claudio and Renata Lugli have not seen their son Flavio in 2,335 days.
Sara Goldberg has not seen her daughter Ashley in 1,375 days.
Lori Hodgson has not seen her son Jeremy in 1,087 days.
Marie Bilheimer has not seen her mother June in 613 days.
Joe Reaiche has not seen his daughter Alanna Masterson in 4,702 days
Derek Bloch has not seen his father Darren in 1,842 days.
Cindy Plahuta has not seen her daughter Kara in 2,162 days.
Claire Headley has not seen her mother Gen in 2,137 days.
Ramana Dienes-Browning has not seen her mother Jancis in 493 days.
Mike Rinder has not seen his son Benjamin in 4,795 days.
Brian Sheen has not seen his daughter Spring in 902 days.
Skip Young has not seen his daughters Megan and Alexis for 1,304 days.
Mary Kahn has not seen her son Sammy in 1,177 days.
Lois Reisdorf has not seen her son Craig in 758 days.
Phil and Willie Jones have not seen their son Mike in 1,263 days.
Mary Jane Sterne has not seen her daughter Samantha in 1,507 days.
Kate Bornstein has not seen her daughter Jessica in 12,616 days.


3D-UnbreakablePosted by Tony Ortega on May 2, 2017 at 07:00

E-mail tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Our book, The Unbreakable Miss Lovely: How the Church of Scientology tried to destroy Paulette Cooper, is on sale at Amazon in paperback, Kindle, and audiobook versions. We’ve posted photographs of Paulette and scenes from her life at a separate location. Reader Sookie put together a complete index. More information about the book, and our 2015 book tour, can also be found at the book’s dedicated page.

The Best of the Underground Bunker, 1995-2016 Just starting out here? We’ve picked out the most important stories we’ve covered here at the Undergound Bunker (2012-2016), The Village Voice (2008-2012), New Times Los Angeles (1999-2002) and the Phoenix New Times (1995-1999)

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of L.A. attorney and former church member Vance Woodward
UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists
GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice
SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

Other links: Shelly Miscavige, ten years gone | The Lisa McPherson story told in real time | The Cathriona White stories | The Leah Remini ‘Knowledge Reports’ | Hear audio of a Scientology excommunication | Scientology’s little day care of horrors | Whatever happened to Steve Fishman? | Felony charges for Scientology’s drug rehab scam | Why Scientology digs bomb-proof vaults in the desert | PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer | The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill | Scientology boasts about assistance from Google | The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield


Share Button
Print Friendly, PDF & Email
  • Panopea Abrupta

    As the Mission network slides towards oblivion,
    DM tries desperately to mount major real estate
    projects to maintain the illusion of growth.
    Who will staff them, Dave?
    Top-down management trying to sell a scam
    nobody wants.
    I can smell the desperation from here 🙂

    The Dark Angel of Disgrace
    Stands before me, face to face,
    Blithely lying about space
    A crooked joker, not an ace,
    All filligree and fancy lace
    You degrade and you debase
    Dave, Let’s cut to the chase
    You have run your evil race.
    Your cult’s so far off the pace
    It will vanish without trace.
    For your kind there is no place
    Dark Angel of Disgrace

    • MarcabExpat


      • OOkpik

        Ha ha!

      • flyonthewall

        I have lost any remaining respect for you. You cannot come to my birthday party

        • MarcabExpat

          Thass ok I heard your birthday cake was made of flies and your a cannibal

          • flyonthewall

            get a haircut, hippie!

          • flyonthewall

            I was just riffing on your Hugh Urban joke. You know he told me he lost all respect for me, right?

            • MarcabExpat

              Dude, your exchange with Hugh yesterday brought me deep and personal joy.

            • flyonthewall

              *high five* That was so much fun

            • MarcabExpat

              So much more fun than zapping weak trolls. But in all seriousness with regard to Mr. Urban, his thin-skinned-ness leaves me highly disappoint.

            • flyonthewall

              right? He even got all butthurt bc Tony used the phrase “escaping from the noose” in his rebuttal to Hugh! Like Tony was insinuating violence toward him or something!? Smh.

            • MarcabExpat

              He didn’t realize at all the impression he was making. Seems his comprehension of internet culture is about on a par with his understanding of Scientology culture.

            • flyonthewall

              Yep. The cherry on top was how he only engaged once he felt slighted personally and not to all the legit questions/challenges people had about his conclusions. I guess we’re not worth engaging unless it’s to ridicule? Weak sauce. Shame bc I really do like his essay on Thelema-Scientology and even the one yesterday wasn’t all bad except for a couple specific things. *shrug* whatevs

            • MarcabExpat

              I wanted to like him. He really disappointed me. That earlier Thelema essay was a classic that every Scn-watcher should read.

            • flyonthewall

              i know man. I liked Tony’s VV article about it so much I bought the stupid essay. Paid like $10 for it or something. I never do that.

            • Chee Chalker

              I was surprised by that very ‘Scientological’ response
              Honestly, it sounded like something Morty would say…….”by referring to a noose, clearly Ortega plans to kill me”

            • Jenyfurrrrr

              Ditto – after the post by Techie, Derek’s respone and Fly’s earlier and then his direct serious comment & question then all he wants to focus on is an obvious sarcastic dig at his hair?!?! Had a lot of respect for how her responded initially, but after that methinks (sorry Tony) the ego is is STRONG in this one!

              (Edited to include Derek’s post since it would be egregious not to mention it as worth a response from HU!)

      • PickAnotherID

        Kudo’s for Ku Du’s.

  • Juicer77

    “…traffic will be light because of the Sea Org buses, and that publics will rarely leave the base while they are going OT.”
    So in Clearwater the Co$ folks will save the downtown economy, but in Lomos del Olivo they will not be around much at all?
    For gosh sakes, Missmanage, make up your mind!

    • Graham

      There ya go, using that ‘wog’ logic again 😉

    • Traffic will be light because nobody will go there.
      Miscavige could use some Yogi Berra logic:
      “Nobody goes there. Its too crowded.”

    • Bert Allen

      Another way to say it is, “We segregate our members from the public like most cults, so we won’t get in your way. Except when we are trying to get you to take the personality test.”

      • Juicer77

        “Or squeeze money out of you on some false pretext.”

    • madame duran

      This is just one example to underscore Techie’s wonderful post from yesterday: the words of Scientologists cannot be trusted because they lie. Lying is promoted as a useful tactic to get things done and “make it go right”. Lying is a sacrament in Scientology. Are you noting this, Professor Urban?

  • “Those that make the grade will be the top thetans of this planet.”
    So, salvation has a hierarchy.
    I ain’t worried, I’m on heaven’s guest list.
    I’m gonna get in, even though I lived a life of sin.

    • chukicita

      *Everything* is a freaking vertical heirarchy in Scientology.

  • Observer

    I hope Scientology’s loss in Clearwater is the first domino.

  • Jen Chapman

    I know Scientology loves acronyms, but AOSH LATAM?

    • It’s the Advanced Org for the continent of LATAM.

    • BirdsFlying

      ASHO LATAM = Advanced Saint Hill Organization for Latin America.

    • PickAnotherID

      AVON OCCUPATIONAL SAFETY & HEALTH GROUP (A.O.S.H) located near Bristol, UK
      LATAM Airlines Group S.A. is a South American airline holding company incorporated under Chilean and Brazilian law and headquartered in Santiago, Chile

      No idea why $cientology is stealing other folks acronys.

  • BosonStark

    The neighbors in Mexico City would probably be willing to put up with the construction noise and traffic inconvenience of something that was going to help their neighborhood, like a new school, or somewhere where some local people can find jobs, but when it’s a training facility for Scientology space cadets here to clear the planet, it’s about as popular a coal-burning power plant or toxic waste storage facility.

    • Or Chernobyl on melt down day.

    • mark

      This is an interesting point. within our neighborhood, a large chunk of land is owned by a well recognized charitable organization (they do a lot of good work, but have their detractors like any other organization). The contribute little directly to our neighborhood, but have caused excess traffic and parking problems for the home nearest to the facility. Recently, they started building a new building, which visually few in the neighborhood like, but bullied their way into getting what they want. Not to the degree of CoS, but pressure was put on the city. For the past year we have been dealing with the nuisance of construction in a very residential are. Often streets are blocked with materials being delivered or serer work related to the project. We are forced to back down narrow curving streets to find an alternate way out of the neighborhood.

      In the end the two years of inconvenience will result in a building that does not fit the character of the surrounding neighborhood, and a facility that few of us will ever set foot into. Time will tell if they will honor the promises they made to the rest of the neighborhood.

  • Chee Chalker

    Didn’t they just say (in Clearwater) that visiting scientologists are a boon to any area they are staying in because they go out (leave the base) and spend $ and help the local economy?
    Now we’re being told they don’t leave the base?
    I’m so confused….

    • Robert Hanna Moore

      OOps failed GIF. I retry

      ETA: I give up.

      • Chee Chalker

        I was able to pull
        It up from the first link 🙃

        I blame Disquis
        For everything

    • EricS

      Ahhh. But they didn’t really say that the Scientologists go out and spend money, right? What they said was that they bring hundreds visitors who spend tens of millions of dollars in the city. They do not mention that almost all of those visitors stay in Scientology facilities and spend the millions on Scientology.
      Almost none of that money is going to Clearwater businesses.
      You see, they don’t JUST lie. They are also experts at spinning data into totally misleading “information”. Although these are not outright lies, they are constructed for the same purpose; to misinform and mislead, in order to present themselves as something they are not.

      • Chee Chalker

        They don’t even buy toilet paper locally (or at all….)

  • OOkpik

    Shame on Jess A. Talamantes, the Mayor of Burbank for proclaiming a Youth For Human Rights Day for the City of Burbank. One would think that if he was not prepared to get the facts about the group he is honoring, he would at least have delegated the responsibility to someone more competent. Wake up, Burbank. This is yet another Scientology scam.

    • Tracy Schmitz

      time for a comment on the twitter and/or facebook page of this “mayor”..

  • Susan black

    Street life in Mexico is always fun and vibrant. Scientologists will kill all that fun if allowed to. Good luck getting rid of the koolaid drinkers before they try to turn the neighborhood into another Clearwater.

  • The problem with new AOSH locations is that they usually would cut into traffic to existing AOSHs like Flag or PAC. (AOSH ANZO in Sydney picks up new Taiwanese traffic.)

    AOSH LATAM would take a lot of traffic away from Flag, and that’s when the screaming starts. The only exception might be if Trump’s new policies make it harder for people to go to Flag, but guessing which way that could go is a mess.

    • PerpetualOutflow

      Have never understood why they routinely cannibalize their own sales and don’t seem to learn from their mistakes. Another form of foot bulletry.

      • The other problem is the number of Sea Org it would take to staff the place, especially if they have a private hotel. Take would take hundreds of Sea Org that might cut into the lifeline of imported Sea Org that they use to keep Flag running.

        If something random happened to their Religious Worker Visas, then staffing it with people that they could no longer bring to Flag might make sense, but that would be in the face of a complete catastrophe.

        • Kestrel

          I don’t think they will have a problem finding low-level “Sea Org members” to staff the hotel and maintain the org.

          • Yes, but they’re already tapping their supply of low-level Sea Org to staff the Fort Harrison and Oak Cove in Clearwater. (Working in a secular hotel on a Religious Worker Visa, grumph!)

        • Bert Allen

          I think the actual staff would be small to address the actual number of paying customers.

          • The org could be cut down in staff to match the customers, but hotels take a lot of people even in low-level operations. Just keeping a kitchen/restaurant open would be a lot, never mind the expectation of Flag-level service.

            • Bert Allen

              Yes and no, staffing of the kitchen is still significantly impacted by traffic. I expect one cook per shift could handle the traffic with 2 wait staff per shift who also helped with non-cooked food prep. But you probably know more about this than I do.

            • What I know about running a restaurant kitchen, I know from TV shows. 🙂

              If they wanted to run a short-order grill, they could slack off, but they want to provide the Advanced Org dining experience with a fancy menu, then it adds up quickly.

              Before it closed and CoS bought it, at the AOSH Canada location one restaurant kitchen had a staff of 80 full and part-time workers. (And the electricity bill for the whole place was $1M/year!) CoS can cut that with horrible hours and less service but that’s still a people drain.

  • Jimmy3

    This is the real reason we need a wall. To stop the Scientology from spreading.

    • PerpetualOutflow

      Well, there’s one reason for Mexico to pay for it, too: to keep the pernicious American cult out of their country.

    • Susan black

      Let’s put walls up around Clearwater and gold base.

      • Jimmy3

        I know a guy who does razor wire. Doesn’t know shit about engineering, construction or fence installation, just really loves razor wire. He’ll do it for free as long as nobody stares or looks him directly in the eye.

        • flyonthewall

          do you remember that time I got into a fight with a scientist and he told me he lost all respect for me and tried to throw me in the moat? That was cool

          • Jimmy3

            Yeah, but don’t worry about it. Scientists love moats only because no one cares if you have a haircut while you’re in them.

          • Jimmy3

            Yeah, but don’t worry about it. Scientists love moats only because no one cares if you have a haircut while you’re in them.

  • PerpetualOutflow

    “Your work is not just theoretical. It’s real — very real. And I have
    heard back from those who suffer the brutality of oppression, that the
    materials you distribute are ‘like a breath of fresh air.’ Inherent in
    every human being is the need to be free. We all need freedom just as
    much as we need air to breathe. And your church and your programs
    greatly contribute to breathing freedom into people’s lives.” –Rep. Lincoln Diaz-Balart at the opening of the Miami Ideal Org as quoted in the Miami New Times

    Pathetic legitmizer. Oh really, Congressman? How exactly is it that the $cientology scam is “breathing freedom” into people’s lives’? Why don’t you ask them about their own disappeared executives? Next time you see him, ask David Miscavige what happened to his wife and why no $cientologists are allowed to inquire about her. What a pant load. Do your homework. And if you’re too lazy to do that, at least keep your mouth shut and do no harm.

    How do people this oblivious wind up in congress? How does that happen?

    • Mark Foster

      Sounds like the Shermanator wrote that shit for Diaz-Balart, eh?

      • PerpetualOutflow

        Ha, you’re right. They probably gave him draft remarks to make it even easier on him, LOL.

    • chukicita

      It’s such real work to copy a freely-available UN document and make others pay to have it distributed.

      That breath of freedom smells like rice and beans.

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      Ugh, I feel ill.

    • Tracy Schmitz

      they told him so and gave him a pamphlet. THAT’S ENOUGH FOR HIM!!!!..

      i’m convinced people like him get into politics because they are actually too stupid (street smart and common sense) to do anything else! and of course they love the attention and the “power”….

      • PerpetualOutflow

        Zenu help us all if you are correct.

  • Cheap & Nothing Wasted

    I’m thoroughly baffled by all the local politicians that don’t do any research into groups that they honor.
    That means that they must not do any research into anything they do for their cities, which must mean their cities are a mess.

    • PerpetualOutflow


    • Scream Nevermore

      Just part of the reason why there is a worldwide disillusionment with the political systems we have.

    • chukicita

      Who has time? When your constituents send a request to declare a day, and it’s not the KKK, who cares? There are dozens of these requests every month in my city. Nobody has time to vet them all. Also, almost nobody knows about it, except for the constituency requesting the declaration.

      • Mark Foster

        I disagree. That´s what you have a staff for. There are tons of bright, technologically savvy people who can help politicians and policy-makers set up data-bases-and there even folks who would happily volunteer their services/skills. There are also non-profit groups, like Southern Poverty Law Center, that monitor hate groups, to pick one example…
        Yes, it´s tough, but to just assume it can´t be done, that there´s no time or resources for it, is not okay, even in a small municipality. Just my opinion…

        • chukicita

          Let’s put it this way – there are usually waaaaaay more important, pressing issues that demand an elected official’s staff’s attention.

          • Tracy Schmitz

            probably and when are they going to turn down a photo op for anything.. as the saying goes “they’ll show up for the opening of a envelope”!..

        • Tracy Schmitz

          i refuse to believe that in 2017, anyone who doesn’t live in a cave hasn’t at the very very least heard that scientology is bad news in one way or another if they don’t have the details..

        • chukicita

          Having worked in such an office in a small municipality, what you are saying seems like more of an ideal scenario than the reality.

          Among dozens of organizations and individuals asking for recognition in the form of a “day,” I can tell you that more concern would be shed over a group that serves migrant farm workers or an LGBTQ rights organization than a group that says it is working to promote human rights. Many well-meaning humans are simply not aware of the need to look deeper.

      • Tracy Schmitz

        NOT REALIZING YET? YET IN 2017, that scientology is compared to the KKK, westboro baptist, white supremacy groups a) almost as bad b) just as bad and c) in some instances worse! then these aforementioned groups…

        • Compared to the KKK by its own attorney, no less ,😁

        • chukicita

          The front groups are not forthcoming about their true parentage. 99.9% of the groups applying for recognition are legit. Personally, I don’t think it’s the best use of city employees time. There are much, much bigger fish to fry. People have the right to respond – and they should, but not by shaming hardworking public servants, but gently informing them of the groups’ true origins.

      • Cheap & Nothing Wasted

        They all have aides who have nothing else to do but actually find out what all the groups wanting days & proclamations actually do.
        But the aides are such worthless hacks, it appears all they do is pass this crap on without any vetting.

    • Tracy Schmitz

      BAM! NAILED IT!..

  • HailToTheSheep

    Does that building really have almost no windows, or are they painted out during construction? Although it is in line with the foreboding/unwelcoming exteriors favored by DM.

    How can a year’s building permit issued in December 2016 have expired already?

    • PerpetualOutflow

      If it was a former mall, that might be why.

    • Bert Allen

      I was wondering the same thing about the expiration.

    • madame duran

      You don’t have the effing rank to say that Scientology has a hierarchy.

  • OOkpik

    I predict Miscavige will buy out the Tintoreria in the top photo so AOSH LATAM regges can take their marks directly to the cleaners.

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner


  • Even if it weren’t the cult buying up the old abandoned shopping mall, I can see why the people would want to have something else built on the site. Lomas del Olivo appears to be a very posh and leafy suburb of Mexico City. There’s little commercial activity in the town other than this hulking beast of a building which appears to be about 120,000 square feet if the Google Maps aerial photo scale is accurate (assuming it’s 4 stories tall). That’s not including a large parking structure. And it looks like the building looms over everything else in its vicinity, choking off the sunlight from many of the homes in the village.

    I know nothing about how government functions in Mexico in terms of either standardized processes or in terms of the ability of single citizens or groups to influence decisions. So I don’t know how to assess the probability that the work stoppage is permanent or whether this is just a temporary bureaucratic roadblock. And I don’t know how to assess the odds that the cult could prevail in litigation against the city or the state to force it to permit construction to resume.

    But I think if you look at the overall strategic situation south of the border, you have a pretty bizarre situation. I would estimate that there are no more than 600-800 Scientologists in all of Latin America, with the biggest chunk of those in Colombia (recall that the Freewinds stops from time to time in Cartagena and there have been numerous proclamations about how all the front groups have slashed crime and drug use in the country).

    Mexico City is at the north end of Latin America, a long airplane ride away from most of the other orgs. It’s over 10.5 hours nonstop from Buenos Aires to Mexico City, for instance. It’s 12 hours from Buenos Aires to fly into Tampa to go visit Flag, and that’s with a change of planes since there are no nonstops from Argentina to TPA. So by investing only one more hour in your seat, why not go to “the Mecca of technical perfection” to fiddle with the dials on an e-meter and divest yourself of all those dead space cooties?

    Incidentally, the Mexico City Ideal Org is located downtown, while this facility is located on the edge of the city, about 10 miles but probably 90 minutes in the famous capital traffic to get there. Hardly convenient for meetings with local org staff.

    So you’ve got a facility that could potentially hold 500-600 staff members when built out serving a population of not many more customers than that in an area far larger geographically than the US or western/central Europe. Of course, the facility will probably be emptier than the average mausoleum, with 10-20 staffers in a facility built for 500-600 when it’s been in operation for a couple of years. It’s going to be even emptier than the recently opened Australian AOSH facility.

    Based on the potential number of room nights they run at Flag as revealed by the estimated room tax figures that Scientology collects, they get perhaps 15% to 20% of their membership to Flag in any given year. Applying that to an estimated population of 800 Scientologists in Latin America, you have 160 people in a year coming to this facility, tops. Assuming each stays for an average of a month, you have an occupancy load of 8-10 customers at any one time in a 120,000 square foot building. At that point, it’s looking as deserted and creepy as a hotel in Pyongyang, North Korea.

    • Jimmy3

      But Dan Sherman could write four or five paragraphs about this!

    • chukicita

      Scientology has had several decades of activity in Colombia. I remember when ex-GO Dick Weigand was posting wins to a Scientology listserv from Colombia in the mid-90s. I believe he was sent there to safepoint.

      From my perspective near Flag, it seems like about half the non-US folks working at the Scientology buildings are from central or South American countries. The other half are Eastern European.

      I’m thinking that this sudden presence in Mexico might be a response to the current administration’s wall goals. If not a physical wall, then an idealogical one. If Spanish-speaking people are being deported from Florida (and they are – this is directly affecting my family), then if I were a Colombian national, I for sure would hesitate to visit, and would opt to go to Mexico City where at least everyone speaks my language and it’s less expensive to stay.

      • Bert Allen

        Sorry to hear about your family’s immigration issues.

        • chukicita

          Thanks. A cousin who *has a green card* and gave birth to two children here, works in health care and pays her taxes, is being removed from her husband and children and sent away because of an error on a form she filled out when she was seventeen. An attorney has obtained a temporary stop, but there is no knowing how this will go. My cousin is definitely not a “bad hombre.”

          What really burns me up is that her family has lived for hundreds of years in what is *now* the USA, but wasn’t just a handful of generations ago. But she moves to Florida about eight years ago, and suddenly she is a threat? Grrrr.

          • Bert Allen

            That sounds like a case that should be won by a competent immigration attorney, but there are no guarantees in litigation. A lot depends on the ideology of the immigration judge.

            • chukicita

              Thanks – I think you’re correct.

              Meanwhile, religious-visa migrant Scientology staffers at Flag have no idea where their passports are.

          • MissCandle

            Don’t forget, Florida’s creepy governor Scott and Sci-Lying-Tology’s friend attorney general Bondi are friends of Trump.

            • chukicita

              How could we forget?

            • ze moo

              Bondi now works in the Trump Justice department.

          • Jimmy3

            Next time I meet someone who didn’t vote, I will smack them in the face for you. It won’t solve anything, but it’ll make me feel better. Hope this helps.

            • chukicita

              Thanks. That would make me feel better, too!

          • flyonthewall

            the only threat people like your relatives are to Trump, his administration and supporters is the threat to a racially homogeneous white state they are trying to create.

          • Free Minds, Free Hearts

            Oh no chukicita, I am so sorry about your cousin. I hope she is getting some support and media attention as well as a good lawyer.

      • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

        I am so sorry, Chuki. How frightening and unsettling for your family members 🙁

      • salin

        Interesting assessment, and far more realistic than one of my reactions: why so big? Well if one was going to try to evacuate key members to a nearby – out of country location, at a time when cooperation between the countries are growing chilly…. Maybe a big old mall makes sense? Nah – not realistic.

        Sending best wishes to your cousin and family. We are living through surreal times.

        • chukicita

          Thanks. Maybe not to evacuate Flag, but to serve as an alternative destination when travel to CW becomes more thorny.

        • Peter

          We have been doing that for over a century.

      • MarcabExpat

        Oh no! I’m so sorry to hear this. Your story below is horrifying!

      • Hugs!

    • Bert Allen

      I will take a stab at a couple of your questions that relate to the likelihood of the COS ultimately prevailing in their quest here. Mexican political culture revolves around two principles that are potentially competing in this situation. The first is that business is primarily done through personal relationships of close friends or family. The second is that if you have enough money you can buy success. Political corruption is rampant in Mexico at all levels of public service.

      The COS probably does not have the personal relationships needed for success, but they certainly have the money. Therefore, it is likely that they will hire an attorney or similar person with the personal relationships to bribe the relevant officials to get their way. Sad to say, but that is how Mexico works in my experience.

      • Kestrel

        The word “bribe” has such awful connotations. One might suggest that the organization could engage a local facilitator to lubricate the process in an effort to move forward.

        • Bert Allen

          Well, here in Texas we have a saying, “Just because you can put lipstick on a hog doesn’t change the fact that she is still a pig.”

    • Ah, but you are using Business Logic, not Scientology Logic. While we’d see those problems, i.e. cannibalization of their facilities customers, over capacity, etc. Scientologists don’t.

      Scientologists are expected to “Make it go right” even in circumstances where it is impossible to do so. Call it the L. Ron Hubbard school of management as expanded upon by David Miscavige, or in secular terms an insane nightmare.

      • At some point, “make it go right” simply won’t work. When you’re 2% short of a fundraising goal, browbeating the staff into some sort of extraordinary effort can make up the difference. When you have 5 million to 6 million square feet of office space serving 15,000 customers, “make it go right” shouting matches won’t make up the difference. That’s 400 square feet of space per “parishioner.”

        Consider how little shared space businesses actually need to serve their customers. In aggregate, there are 24 square feet of retail space per person in the US, which is nearly double the #2 area, the rural “Canada” region of upstate New York located somewhere north of Buffalo, and it’s nearly triple the #3 market in Australia with about 9 square feet per person. Declining disposable income in the US is rapidly creating a “retail apocalypse” as stores are closing at an accelerating rate (more stores have closed in the first 3 months of 2017 than all of 2016) and numerous shopping malls are likely to close in the next 2-3 years.

        So when you consider 400 square feet per parishioner versus 8-10 square feet needed to serve the entire country with retail, it looks pretty insane to be carrying that cost burden (maintenance costs and opportunity costs of the funds spent on purchase/renovation; the cult only saves on labor). It will ultimately bury the cult though that will take a long time.

        The point of this whole exercise is the tip of an iceberg I don’t have time to get into. But the laws of economics most certainly do apply to cults even with distortions such as slave labor. If you’ve read the book “Freakonomics,” it highlighted the work of Sudhir Venkatesh, who did a lot of field work to understand the economics of retail drug dealing organizations and other non-corporate organizations including criminal syndicates. He suggested that all economics rules apply there just as they do in the normal corporate world. Scientology, which has a lot more in common with a drug cartel than a consulting firm in its economic parameters, is no more immune to economics than anything else.

        • PeaceMaker

          John, thanks for you analysis – as always.

          I don’t know if you’ve noted my previous calculations, but I’ve seen evidence that some of the “ideal” orgs and maybe even the average ones, only have active membership of 50 – 75 and a total “field” of about double that, and thus around 600 square feet of building space per local member. So I find it interesting to see your estimation for that AO, that is in the same ballpark, suggesting it is some curious point of viability according to Scientology’s internal calculus – however skewed and unsustainable, that actually is.

          I checked some architectural references, and churches typically are planned based on 5 – 20 square feet per person. Hotels are up around 50 square feet per person, and commercial and governmental operations may be in the low hundreds (often accounting for a lot of equipment and storage) but there is nothing except residential space that runs as high as around 500 square feet average.

          I think those sort of calculations will ultimately be part of what leads the IRS to determine that Scientology is more like Skull and Bones (a small initiatory secret society at Yale, with a lavish clubhouse and a private island, supported by a trust – which is a 501(c)(3) non-profit, but a corporate one subject to reporting requirements) than a church. But as we’ve discussed, it’s hard to tell when the IRS might act, and a downgrade or revocation of Scientology’s tax exemption is not something to be counted on as the game-changing event necessary to shut down the abuses.

        • The problem is that ‘making it go right’ is Scientology scripture, so thinking rationally is off the table.

    • Noesis

      It has occurred to me that the real reason for the building of more Advanced Orgs outside the U.S. is not because of current demand in those areas, but as a (backup) retreat strategy away from the U.S. as the local political and judicial climate are turning against the church.

      Were the church to suffer a serious new setback in a U.S. court, lose its IRS exemption or were one or more of its senior leaders be finally brought to justice for the reported pattern of violence and other human rights violations, the church could move a significant portion of its Advanced Org operations offshore.

      It is also true that not all but a great majority of critical reporting about Scientology is in English. Moving to areas where English is not the dominant language allows the protean fraud of Scientology to continue to morph until the inevitable abuses pile up in non-U.S. areas too…and become part of the critical reporting on the church in the languages which are dominant in those areas.

      Constructing those giant facilities offshore is also a convenient excuse to move large sums of money out of the U.S., thus making it more difficult to attach in civil litigation or an apocalyptic U.S. government law enforcement action.

      • While the scenario you describe is possible, I think it’s less likely than that Miscavige just gets his real estate people to send him “bright shiny objects” that are interesting buildings that somehow grab his interest, and eventually he adds them to the Ideal Org strategy.

        I don’t think the cult needs to have an “escape hatch” strategy for the US, as this country is the most religious of any of the G-20 countries by far and rarely lifts a finger to rein in the excesses of “religious” organizations. (On a side note, I thought the FBI/IRS raid last week on “pastor” Benny Hinn’s offices were decades overdue; wonder what finally tipped them over the edge to investigate someone who has been untouchable despite what sure looked to me like blatant fraud of the gullible.)

        I might agree that an escape hatch were necessary were the cult headquartered in Russia or Germany, where it has been the target of official government inquiries and/or sanctions.

        And I think an escape hatch in a Spanish-speaking country would be anathema to Miscavige, who, according to comments some years ago from Rinder and Rathbun, is quite racist and xenophobic. I don’t think he’d flee to a place where English is not the native language and where he can’t control the fate of the political process. As I said in several posts a couple years ago, I think I know where Miscavige’s personal bolt-hole is located, and it’s in an English speaking area where the population in his neighborhood (though not in the country as a whole) is almost all white.

        Additionally, I might suggest that at this point, the internet plus a critical mass of educated people speaking English as a second language in almost all countries in the world would reduce the lag time for cult-critical material published in English to be available for use in a non-English speaking country. In other words, language differences are far less of an issue than they might have been 30 years ago where it would have been hard for (e.g.) the French anti-cult authorities to find out what was going on with Scientology in the US. I don’t think it would take a lot of time for people faced with Scientology moving into their country to be able to mount an effective objection instantly.

        Additionally, for the cult to flee in the face of US government scrutiny would be a death sentence because one of the big appeals of Scientology, and one of the things that keeps members positively attracted, is the illusion of success that Miscavige so carefully crafts for the US member base, which is substantially more than half of the current membership. Buckling in the face of government pressure and fleeing to an offshore haven would drive many members out of the cult because it would be revealed as weak and powerless, not the group of mighty homo novis that Hubbard promised.

        • Noesis

          Chances are there are multiple reasons for the new Advanced Orgs being built in non-U.S. areas.

          But let’s not forget that this is the same organization whose founder used the Apollo and then a Bluebird motorhome to stay one step ahead of the law as it closed in on him in various parts of the world.

          Running away and hiding when law enforcement shows up, then building the scam anew in a different locale is the ultimate, time-tested Scientology “OT” strategy.

          • Hiding worked well for Hubbard but a lot has changed since his day 40 years ago. It didn’t take much to stay ahead of the law if you had a ton of low-level co-conspirators like an entire Sea Org to help you.

            But today, I don’t think it’s all that possible for a high-profile target like Miscavige to disappear for too long. Automated tools trace money flows in real time, and bank secrecy is mostly dead. While the government may not be able to seize money held in banks in certain jurisdictions, they can freeze it and make it unavailable to Miscavige. There are very few places in the world that aren’t compliant with international money laundering protocols these days, and none of them would be a place where Miscavige would want to flee (Libya, Syria, North Korea, Iran and a couple others come to mind).

            Passport control is far stricter; it’s hard to obtain fake passports or even dual-citizen passports from some of the Caribbean countries without the US government finding out about it. This is the legacy of the PATRIOT act and a lot of behind-the-scenes diplomacy post-9/11.

            With regard to his hiding, his personal security and other current tactics to stay ahead of the law, Miscavige is mistaking success for lack of interest on the government’s part. If he fled with the access codes to the $1.5 billion or so in reserves, the government would get very interested in finding him and, though it might take them a few months to reel him in, they are likely to succeed ultimately.

            • Noesis

              I’ll repeat a phrase that I have used to describe Scientology previously: It is a deliberate protean fraud.

              It does not have to be right or successful in the long term on any of its major initiatives – it just has to be able to work a particular scam long enough to secure a pile of money from it, then move on to the next HQ location / scam to reinvent itself into an entity that appears acceptable enough to not be immediately attacked.

              Wash, rinse, repeat. It’s been going on for 60+ years.

              EDIT to add: Borders and money movement are tighter than before, but no where near impossible barriers for those that have the right lawyers and a willingness to deceive on both an official and unofficial levels.

      • Gus Cox

        They seem to be advertising a lot outside of the U.S. I’m traveling at the moment, and saw this in an underground station in Kiev, Ukraine. I don’t speak the language, but I’m pretty sure that says, “Dianetics.” 😉

        I hear they are offering hard-to-get U.S. Visas to recruit staff (using a “Religious Worker” angle).


        • Noesis

          Imagine being in an autocratic state like those spawned from the former Soviet Union, AND going onto staff for Scientology.

          That’s a twofer that no one should have to endure.

    • sizzle8

      Normal business practice in Mexico (and most of Latin America) is that the fat envelope opens any door that you want. Been there, done that.

    • ze moo

      The Mexican whale who is building Tom Cruises condo in Clearwater may be the one do this work. I have no idea where the money is coming from. How many locals and indeed all of Latin American are paying for this? As business plans go, this one really sucks.

      • Good observation. This may answer the thing I didn’t understand about why Mexico and not Colombia for the AOSH Latin America.

        One wonders, then, whether the Ideal Org in MX is a sop to this particular whale, who anchors the South American money tree. Any doubts that Scientology isn’t expanding in Latin America, says Miscavige, ought to be laid forever to rest by the sparkly new building there. Especially if said whale is the general contractor for the project.

        Miscavige generally disdains meeting “parishioners” but is quite astute at dealing with a handful of key whales like Cruise and Duggan by providing them unique personal service. Perhaps this whale is a big enough contributor that he gets a bone thrown at him like a building in his back yard.

  • Victoria Jane Hay

    In fairness – traffic probably will be light. So many buildings, so few adherents.

  • Bert Allen

    The first thing that popped into my mind was, “If people from Mexico can get OT training in LA then why are COS members in LA told they need to go to FLAG for that training.” I would be pissed if I learned the training was available locally, but I was conned into an expensive trip to Florida in order to get it. Doubly screwed, no actual OT powers, and I paid twice as much as I needed too.

  • Fink Jonas

    How do they feed all those lecture tapes to people in Spanish? Have they been translated? If they have then they are not getting it from source ( vomit a bit at the word source)

    • Jimmy3

      Every word he wrote has been translated into languages that would surprise even the most isolated Amazonian tribes.

      • ombrifuge

        Presumably they haven’t bothered translating it into languages whose speakers don’t use hard cash.

  • pluvo

    Another prestige building for David Miscavige to show the unprecedented expansion of the shrinking CoS.

    “Why Ideal Orgs?” – An excerpt from the excellent article by Mike Rinder who explains this:

    There are two reasons for the ideal org program that go hand in hand. And it explains why, in spite of the clear failure of this program to bring about planetary clearing, or anything at all aligned with the “Aims of Scientology,” it will continue to be pushed until the very end.

    1. It is vital for Miscavige to hold onto his position

    2. IRS concerns

  • PickAnotherID

    Apparently $cientology’s attempt to bring in the Sea Borg went through the wrong channels: (f5)

    • Missionary Kid

      This is one time that the cartels would be interested in the $cientology “no drugs” policy.

  • KingofSweden

    I’m so glad that all over the world, people are starting to use the correct descriptor when referring to the Clampire– “international criminal organization.”

  • dchoiceisalwaysrs

    “no a la Eglisia…”poster. So there is word in the community about the various countries scientology has had trouble in. They as best as I can see are listed on the poster.

    Isn’t it especially taboo to mess with family relationships in Mexico.

    I wonder what else they are talking about. Maybe someone like David Lopez can go tell his success story about how scientology will help the community prosper?

    As I understand it there were a lot and I mean a lot of Mexican’s on staff at Flag and I do wonder how many of those blew and are spreading the word that if anyone wants to go to ‘America’ they should stay away from Flag because the pay is far less than in Mexico.
    I can’t stop wonder as to what were the names of the 3 babysitting nannies for Lisa McPherson who apparently disappeared.

    • madame duran

      That letter gives me life. It lists five towns/neighbourhoods (suburbs?) that oppose the cult then goes on to list SPECIFIC reasons as to why (Operation Snow White, disconnection, practicing without a medical license, detriments to financial and mental health, other countries around the world where the cult faced various charges including fraud…the usual complaints and grievances). THIS IS WHAT AN INFORMED AND ENGAGED PUBLIC DOES. Meanwhile in Miami, an oblivious mayor is giving a good word about the cult despite the evidence of Clearwater’s struggles with Scientology. He’s not even aware of what’s happening in his own state of Florida, let alone the world. Pathetic, useless politician.

      • PickAnotherID

        These days I’m beginning to think “politician” is a polite way of saying “brain dead”.

  • KingofSweden

    That mayor’s responses are completely unacceptable… basically, “they’re OK because nobody has busted them and the IRS sez they’re cool. Oh, and Catholics do bad things too.” NOT the same.

    When people say that $cientology is just like any other (imperfect) religion, my reply is, “then you simply don’t know enough about $cientology.”

    • Tracy Schmitz

      exactly! comparing (and that is a simpleton childish’s argument ” yeah, but what about so and so!) the catholic religion because it has a few bad priests, to the entire WHOLE OF SCIENTOLOGY THAT IS BAD FROM TOP TO BOTTOM, from their actual doctrine and policies is beyond stupidity! or willful (are they backing him with “donations”)..


    The OT’s don’t need a bus – they are Operating Thetans. They are the size of your thumb and have no matter, energy, space or time…they are not really there…they are a figment of their imaginations.

  • Kristen

    They can’t even fill a tiny storefront in California with people. Can’t wait to see pics of the empty, cavernous inside of this new one.

    • PickAnotherID

      With a building that size, it would be like using a 55 gallon drum to store a dozen BB’s.

  • PickAnotherID

    I’ll bet the tintoreria was all excited about a bunch of psuedo-sailors moving in next door. Until they found out the Sea Borg usually has it’s own dry cleaning plant.

  • PickAnotherID

    Could someone do a quick translation of the “No $cientology” letter for those of use who picked up Japanese, rather than Spanish, as a second language?

    • Missionary Kid

      I gave it a start, just a little later, and asked that someone else finish and do a better job. It’s a great broadside against $cientology.

      • PickAnotherID

        Thanks. I see it up above.

    • Mark Foster

      Basically outlines scientology´s history of international crime(including a mention of the Snow White Scandal) and says we don´t want them here. It´s really quite forceful and direct.

    • MrsShark

      Google translate is somewhat good. Not saying its perfect but it works

  • Chee Chalker

    If I ever meet Disquis in a dark alley, I’m going to punch him right in the kisser

    • Missionary Kid

      I call it Disqust.

  • Missionary Kid

    That flier in Spanish needs to be translated by someone whose skills are better than mine, but here goes a start. It is particularly damning of $cientology. Please correct my mistakes. I only used Google Translate for a few words, and while I speak some Spanish, it’s been over 50 years since I took a year in college.

    [It lists neighborhoods that are opposed] to the opening of an OT center and Saint Hill of Dianetics or Church of Scientology on Olive Street.

    The church of Scientology (Dianetics), for more than 50 years, after litigation, in has been declared by courts of the countries United States, Canada, France, Spain, Italy, Russia, Greece, Australia, Norway, Switzerland, Denmark, Holland, and Sweden to be criminal to mental and physical health, conspiracy, fraud, obstruction of justice, defamation, extortion, falsification of documents, practicing medicine without a license, stealing other people’s mail, intimidation, and many other things more typical of a criminal organization than of religious worship.

    It goes on to talk about Operation Snow White, eta other practices, and a lot of the other evil actions of Scientology, including disconnection.

    Whoever wrote it, knows chapter and verse the crap that Scientology has pulled.

    • PickAnotherID
    • dchoiceisalwaysrs

      And not one word about Xenu,, lol, which is good just straight to the criminality and abuses..wonderful to see the important things getting known.

    • jimpjorps

      The rest:

      The majority [of those court cases] ended in guilty verdicts which sent its members to prison and in some cases required the organization to stop its activities in those countries. In the United States alone they have been implicated in over 300 court cases. One of the most infamous feats pulled off by this organization was Operation Snow White, when in 1977 the FBI stormed the headquarters of Scientology in the US to dismantle a spy network assembled by L. Ron Hubbard, founder of the religion, against the United States government. In 1979, Hubbard’s wife and a dozen high-ranking members of the organization were found guilty of conspiracy against the federal government. On the Internet one can find many sites which denounce the illegal activities of Scientology: the disappearance of members of the religion, brainwashing, scams, kidnappings, murder and all kinds of other crimes. Many families have lost a member because of “disconnection” (turning one’s back [shunning]), in which the Scientologist must cease contact with non-Scientologists.

      We don’t want this in our town. We consider this a threat to our families. We ask the authorities to proceed with our petition.

    • Science Doc

      You asked me about safety of playing Scientology DVDs in a computer last night. I think it should be fine. Any DVD player, including the software and hardware on a computer, is pulling data from a compressed video file and a second file with chapter markers and such. I don’t think there is anyway to get an executable program to load. Hacking has gotten a lot more sophisticated in the past few years. My copy has a 2011 copyright, so I wouldn’t consider this the latest from the NSA. If you have a utility like activity monitor on a Mac you can check whether you have any unexpected processes running. My 2 cents.

      • Missionary Kid

        Thanks, I was just being paranoid. Now I have to find the damn thing. I’ll probably get bored with it or angry at the BS within a couple of minutes.

  • Tracy Schmitz

    more and more i’m convinced that politicians are not only whores, but get into politics because their too stupid to do anything else and of course like the attention and the “power”…

    • Kristen

      As someone who’s lived in the DC area for 27 years, I can’t tell you you’re flat-out….right.

    • ExCult.Jan

      I hear what you’re saying, Tracy, but you’re painting with a pretty broad brush. I’m fighting to swim out of the eddy of political despair, too.

      Gonna stand up for my senator, Jeff Merkley (D-OR), who is in politics for the right reasons and continues to use his position to make the world a better place.

      And then there is Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA). Not a ‘whore’, not ‘too stupid to do anything else’ and she takes huge risks to fight against power in its many guises.

      Just the first two who pop to mind.

  • davegrille

    The Mexico story is becoming more typical.

    • PickAnotherID

      Now if more folks in the US would start paying that kind of attention…

      • davegrille


  • Rasha

    “Scientology’s ‘Massive Expansion’ Halted By Global LOLs”

    …sorry, that’s the first thing I thought of when I read the headline.

  • Kestrel

    “With a sense of urgency typical for Scientology projects, on December 15, 2016 they received a one year permit to conduct repairs. They didn’t start the renovations until March of this year, when more than 100 workers were hired to create a gleaming white structure, complete with the star and laurel symbol of the Sea Org…”

    There is a big difference between getting a permit to “conduct repairs” and what the workers appear to have been hired to do. Typical CofS. Say one thing. Do something else.

  • MrsShark

    I think survivors need to write to Miami’s mayor to tell their stories of abuse irregardless of where they live.

    • gtsix

      Or maybe Miami’s mayor can read Fair Game: The Incredible Untold Story of Scientology in Australia
      by Steve Cannane.

      There are so many others, but this is most recent and has harrowing stories of human trafficking.

  • Definitely not another example of Hubbard’s racism:

    SHSBC-066 Moral Codes What is a Withhold 041061

    Now, how many moral codes are there? How many moral codes have there been? I’d say circa right now, there is probably a different moral code for every group, each one, large or small, in every city, county, country, continent of Earth. There’s probably five hundred of them for every language there is on this planet and there are fifty thousand languages on this planet.

    I’ll give you a moral code question to a Zulu: “Has anything ever been lying around loose that you didn’t steal?” Clang! “Who didn’t you tell that to?”

    “I didn’t tell my father. I wouldn’t dare. He would beat me.” Because it’s moral for a Zulu to steal. Interesting, isn’t it? So not stealing is his withhold, and you think his stealing would be his withhold. So you ask for a stealing withhold and you don’t get any response and you should have been asking for a not-stealing withhold.

    • April

      LRH: Truly a racist fuck.

      • Ron the Talmudic scholar:


        Well, why are they in trouble? Well, that’s because there aren’t any other agreements than the basic agreement. You don’t have modified agreements. If the agreement didn’t exist in the first place, you can’t keep patching it up and expect any great, lasting success. But what I have just said is to some degree a matter of opinion, because moral codes either leap full-armed from the brass tablets of Moses as he walks down from the rain and the mist saying, “Thou shalt not sell pork to thy neighbor. Sell it to a stranger if it is tainted.”

        You didn’t know that was one of the Commandments, did you? But I’ve mentioned it before that it happens to be there. There are about 162 of the Ten Commandments. And they contain all sorts of interesting bric-a-brac. But that is just a moral code.

        • Sherbet

          Shaking my head. In what year did lrh make those pronouncements?

          • 041061 or 4 October 1961.

            • Sherbet

              Ah, the civil rights era, when there was absolutely no excuse for such ignorance and bigotry — the voices of black leaders were being heard, and it was only a few years past WWII, which was, for many, about atrocities inflicted upon the Jewish people. Great timing for your stupidity, Lafayette, you diseased, hateful excuse for a human being.

            • WhiteCentauress

              Wow, you’re good!

            • I’m used to their standard for dating and revisions. Luckily they don’t date them After Dianetics with 1950 as Year Zero.

            • WhiteCentauress

              Yeah….North Korea style….surprised Davy didn’t start his calendar the day “The War Is Over!” speech launched his godhood.

              ….probably couldn’t figure out when it actually started and whether it was before or after they lost the copyright. Anyway. Love your research, and consider you a “scholar” in the true sense of the word. Kudos! ( koodoos, kudus, if you prefer. 😉👍)

        • PeaceMaker

          Typical Hubbard. He knew just enough – maybe overheard at a cocktail party from someone who’d actually read all the way through a scholarly work, and dimly remembered – to say something that made him sound smart to the audience. And, typically, the throws in what you might even call a “bigoted” aside mocking anything that came before his Scientology, with the bit about jews supposedly selling tainted pork to strangers.

          There are 613 Commandments (Mitzvot), unless there’s some group, like Christians, that has culled out a different, smaller set to treat as important. A quick check on Wikipedia suggests that maybe only a total of 271 are considered relevant in modern times – still not the number that Hubbard was citing. What was that about supposed perfect recall (that “clears” are supposed to have) again?

  • Iconoclast Six

    So could we say that Mexico is building, well, um, a WALL around the Scientology™ racket?

    And will they make Davy pay for it?

  • Panopea Abrupta

    The Case of The Missing Missions

    Having examined the Missions of New England and Texas,
    it’s time to head to delta-country.

    Here’s what we are looking at:

    Let’s begin in the West with the Mission of Lake Charles.

    Mission of Lake Charles,
    536 Kirby St.,
    Lake Charles,

    Mission holder – Mike Carson, owner of a construction company
    that specializes, appropriately, in framing.

    He’s been working on his case, as has his wife, Kay:

    Though they also do foundations, seemingly the Mission lacked a solid one:

    Yep, permanently closed.

    Surprising that local boy made bad, Grant Cardone, didn’t prop it up.
    Oh, yeah, he was too busy making Miami go Ideal.
    Good luck with that, Grant.

    Next up, moving East again, Lafayette

    • PickAnotherID

      Somehow those ominous looking clouds over the building seem appropriate.

      • Sherbet

        I thought the same thing, and I could imagine the voice of The Almighty coming through the clouds: “Seriously? Get thee lost!”

    • Iconoclast Six

      Mr. Carson’s website sure makes his business look happening.

      Very 1996, as coded by someone’s teenage nephew.

    • Sherbet

      You are nothing if not thorough, Pan.

      • ExCult.Jan

        Pan is poetically thorough, and a thorough poet. And a hoot to boot.

        “Mission holder – Mike Carson, owner of a construction company that specializes, appropriately, in framing… Though they also do foundations, seemingly the Mission lacked a solid one:”

    • So, if I read the first sad story about the missionaire in Lafayette correctly, this guy in Lake Charles killed the other MH with his massive SPness? Snark aside, these are all terribly sad stories for everyone involved. S:AWTYT.

    • Kristen

      He and his wife look so happy!! Ringing endorsement of the “tech”!

    • PeaceMaker

      Thanks once more for all your work on this project to document – and expose – the missions, or lack thereof.

      Is google your only source of information, for determining that the mission is closed? Not only am I not sure that’s necessarily reliable, but if I recall, “anonymous” and like-minded people have even been messing with the google listings deliberately.

      I don’t have a good suggestion for verifying mission statuses, other than trying to call or e-mail – and I’m unfortunately not going to be the one to offer to do that. We need somebody with a throw-away phone and e-mail.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    The Case of The Missing Missions Continued

    The Mission of Lafayette,
    210 Elmwood Drive,

    Discovering $cientology in the late 80’s,
    Marie Pace and husband Linwood Pace threw themselves into it,
    head, heart and soul:

    She worked with Volunteer Ministers, she worked with literacy in schools,

    and in 1995, she opened a Mission:

    She trained as a naturopath and has a practice:

    Then this happened:
    There is lots more.
    Followed unfotunately by this:

    Sadly, postulation, considering L. Ron Hubbard a scientist and using naturopathy was not enough.
    Then this happened:

    Now the Mission is closed.

    Baton Rouge and New Orleans will be next to be looked at.

    • Kestrel

      Good Lord, that’s sad.

      • WhiteCentauress

        “Tons of oxygen” is very bad advice. I was my husband’s caregiver when he was having cancer treatments for stage four melanoma. Later, he was put on oxygen during the hospice stage. It was just him and me most of the time. One day he was having trouble breathing, so I increased his oxygen just slightly. It seemed to help, but I’ve had no nursing training. I called the hospice nurse, and when she got there, she said too much oxygen can be harmful, even deadly. It was fourteen months of hell for both of us, with many trips to Vanderbilt, hours of treatment, and medicine that was so expensive. One bottle of pills was over $6,000, so insurance wouldn’t pay because it was experimental. There were ten pills in the bottle…..anyway, you do the math there. Cancer is a very horrific way to die, especially without morphine, which I was giving him daily towards the end. I feel for anyone who has to go through it. I hope she wakes up. I hope this whole thing comes down in my lifetime.

        • Missionary Kid

          Reading about your loss, I know that there’s still a lot of things that we don’t know about cancer, but naturopathy is sheer snake oil for the treatment of cancer. At least your husband had morphine to ease his pain. Bless you for taking care of him.

  • What’sup

    Unlike the rice and beans American Sea Orgers eat every meal, Mexican S.O are forced to eat nothing but burgers and fries. Seems odd.

    • flyonthewall

      everyday!? I want to join the Mexican SO!

      • Missionary Kid

        Sign up. I’ll send you a ticket. 😛

        • flyonthewall

          you tryin’ to get rid of me?

          • Missionary Kid

            Naw. I wuz kidding. That would be a fate worse than death. Besides, Your beautiful kids & Mrs. Fly need you.

            • flyonthewall

              i know dat you wuz kidding

    • Observer

      I am eating rice and beans for lunch at this very moment.

      ETA: it’s upside down so you can see it right side up in your hemisphere.

      • Jimmy3

        I knew it!

      • What’sup

        Hehe.. Looks good enough to eat.

  • Chee Chalker

    Hopefully Prof Urban will respond to the very valid posts made by several different commentators – from Techie’s succinct analysis (Scientology – it’s ALL lies); Derek and Cece’s comments about how Scientology destroys lives and families; to Pan’s discovery re: Westbrook’s ‘research’.

    Many people brought up very valid points, but Urban only seemed to be interested in dead agenting Rick Ross (that was bizarre) and giving ‘koodoos’ (I’m hoping that misspelling was intentional) to fly for making comments about Urban’s luxurious long locks.

    Urban also responded to Glen to complain that the critics of Scientology were meaner than Scientology itself.

    I’m sure Urban recognizes passion and understands the reason for some of the reactions. But I did get the mental picture several times of someone painting himself into a corner.

    I thought the whole point of dissertations and PhD panels was that the work was supposed to be vetted and challenged before being accepted. It seems some of Urban’s work was built on a shaky foundation (Westbrook). Hopefully that foundation won’t bring the entire house down.

    • flyonthewall

      the vetting and challenging can only come from fellow academics, all others are not worth responding to unless it is to defend your glorious mane

    • PeaceMaker

      Chee, well put.
      My hope is that Prof. Urban wasn’t familiar with dealing with an unmoderated online forum, and was both put off by some of the typical rawness, and let himself be dragged into some of it – and that he will learn from that, and find a way to continue to participate at some level that is informative and productive for both him and the critical community. Let’s keep in mind that interactions online are significantly different, and that we ourselves probably stumbled a bit at first.

      I think it’s important to remember that he is a guest who is apparently not familiar with at least this particularly arena of online culture, such as it is, and to treat him accordingly. How would we treat a guest from another culture, in real life?

      • Jimmy3

        Can’t call yourself Urban and not be strapped for the rawness of these Bunker streets, son. Where yo hat at? What hat you wearin, son?

      • MarcabExpat

        Concur. I had to stop myself from replying to him at one point, “Bro, do you even Internet?” Because it was pretty obvious that he doesn’t.

        • PeaceMaker

          Yep. It also occurred to me, that this could even serve as a useful introduction for him, to the internet culture around Scientology. I do hope that he’ll find a way to interact with us productively, rather than just being put off.

          • MarcabExpat

            Being put off seems to be a way of life for him, but that’s a good thing to hope.

        • grundoon

          Urban is well ahead of his peers in beginning to discover the Internet. Donald Westbrook, for instance, is almost invisible unless you meet him in person.

      • Harpoona Frittata

        That’s my hope as well!

        We’ve warmly embraced more than a couple folks here who, in their previous lives as evil $cilon minions, have admitted to being an active part of the cult’s Fair Game enforcement crew for years. So, extending that same spirit of tolerance to a person whose only “crimes” have been virtual seems only fair to me.

        Similarly, we’ve been politely tolerant of more than a few never-in folks whose superficial, two-dimensional understanding of the cult and its history sometimes (not really) makes you wish they’d sign up for a $cn course or two and learn something about $cn from the inside before running off at the mouth about a subject that they really have no experience with or personal knowledge of.

        First impressions are important and, since it costs no more in effort to be civil and refrain from hastily drawn conclusions, then why not do just that?

    • Harpoona Frittata

      Since there’s no evidence that Prof. Urban has been actively compromised by $cn, as some of his fellow religious studies scholar colleagues have, and because Tony seems to think he’s one of the best of the litter in his, umm, interestingly oriented academic field, I suggest that we don’t jump to hasty conclusions, based on one day’s interaction with him here in a virtual venue that’s new to him.

      Instead, I think it would be both wise and polite to reserve judgement for a bit and go out to meet the man half-way. Responding to a lot of different folks’ points of argument, questions and concerns in a new forum like this one would be overwhelming to anyone, and when intellectuals feel threatened or attacked they often respond in kind, just like the rest of us.

      So, looking at it from the perspective of someone who had just arrived and has had no previous interaction with some of the more, er, colorful characters here, I could see how we could have presented a more consistently welcoming front than we have so far.

      I make the point because, out in the real world, where regular folks are still in the beginning stages of having their awareness raised concerning the true evil and serious threat this killer cult continues to pose to society…out there, people DO pay attention to what academics like Urban have to say; they are opinion leaders (OLs, in the cult’s parlance). So, if we believe that their scholarship on the subject is fundamentally flawed, incorrectly premised, superficial and, importantly, that it has been intentionally misdirected and purposefully corrupted by the cherch, then it’s really on us to make those arguments and rectify what we believe are inaccurate views and faulty conclusion regarding $cn.

      There were at least three $cn trolls who showed up on-thread yesterday to goose the building invective and to portray Bunkerites as being, what was the phrase, “more hostile than the church” or some such. So, no need to lean into and “prove” their false and over-generalized accusations to someone who is forming his first impression of the Bunker and its denizens, is there?

      Here’s the deal for me: I’m very widely read in a whole lot of different fields, and share with others here the dual perspective on all things scientological that comes from studying it, both as a true believer member and as an ex-member critic. However, I’m not at all studied up on religious studies scholars’ views on $cn or on the various approaches that they’ve taken towards delving into it. I’ve listened to others who are critical of the religious studies academic field itself and, in particular, of their treatment of $cn, but I haven’t read much of these academic scholars’ work on the subject at all, So, being the curious, avid reader that I am, I politely asked Prof. Urban to point me toward what he deemed is the best work on $cn in his academic field.

      I’m willing to meet him and his academic colleagues more than half way, because the more folks who come to a shared understanding – based on the objective evidence to hand, concerning the danger and risk posed to individuals, families and society as a whole – the better! Obviously, any academic who’s been turned to the Dark Side and begun carrying water for the cult out of unenlightened self interest deserves to be skewered by lay folks and fellow academics alike. But as far as everyone else in that field is concerned, we’re all just trying to achieve a more perfect understanding, and the wider the base of that shared consensus, the more effective and powerful, I believe, will be the action.

      Y’all do what you like, but for me, welcoming newbies and remaining open-minded about areas of academic scholarship in which I’m not very well-versed is going to be my chosen path.

      • Chee Chalker

        I agree with what you’ve said, however I wonder if Prof Urban is even aware that 1) those were Scilons trolls and 2) that they act that way on instruction from their organization
        Also, I’m still confused about his ad hominem on Rick Ross and hope he explains his comments to Rick

        Who were the trolls yesterday? I couldn’t see all the comments because Disquis is a monster

        • Harpoona Frittata

          I lost track of all of their names, but one of them was “ithilien” or something similar.

          It would be very interesting to see just how aware Prof. Urban is of how calculatedly $cn targets OLs like himself to be turned or safe-pointed. I’d also like to know just how well read he is on the cult’s own primary source documents which not only specify who’s to be fair gamed, but instruct the cult’s very own secret police/domestic espionage wing on exactly how to carry out those actions in detail.

          Because those directives from Elron himself were never meant for broad publication even within $cn, but were instead only intended for secret use by GO/OSA, they would not be the kind of material that he’d be likely to run across on his own. Indeed, most $cilons haven’t heard of them either, which is exactly where the work of high-level ex-members, such as Mike Rinder, in bringing them to light is so important!

          Normal people with a conscience seem to have a very difficult time understanding true evil unless they’ve experienced it for themselves in a very direct and consequential manner. We all seem to carry an inherent bias away from seeing it for what it truly is; we don’t often appear natively predisposed to diagnosing it correctly, even when all the criteria are met in aces, as the case with $cn, Elron and lil davey has been made over and over and over again.

          That’s a good bias to have in most cases because it preserves the possibility of change occurring; it enables hope to lead the way. But there’s a very serious down-side there as well, which couldn’t possibly be made more clear than in the case of $cn, which has consistently exemplified exactly what true evil looks like in action for over six decades now.

          Urban and his religious study colleagues are no better equipped to identify true evil for what it is than anyone else. So I sure do wish we’d all learn to work together in order to do so… lives are at stake and the cult isn’t going to drive a stake through its own dark heart, that’s for sure!

          • Chee Chalker

            I found it interesting that Prof Urban carries the ‘Let’s all work together’ banner (academics and journalists), but then attacked Rick Ross of all people! Sorry if I am beginning to sound like the Rick Ross Defense League, but I was really taken aback by that.
            I am wondering if perhaps Prof Urban was debriefed on Ross by the Cult Awareness Network (the ‘new’ CAN, not the original)

            I hope Prof Urban doesn’t fall for the ‘ASC is worse than the Co$’ narrative that Morty seems to be promulgating.

            I admire him for defending his work and I would be defensive as well. I’m sure he put a lot of work into the article. But I also wondered if he Googled ‘Michael Chan’ or did the research into Westbrook that a few of the Bunker regulars did.
            Also, he needs to be better prepared to debate other than using the old ‘you just didn’t understand me’ refrain. It would be refreshing for him to acknowledge that certain aspects of Westbrook’s work were troublesome. Who knows, maybe he did and I missed it. I kind of got sidetracked by the great hair debate and the slams of Ross.
            And $10 says Urban doesn’t realize there were Co$ trolls fanning the flames 🔥

            • Harpoona Frittata

              “I hope Prof Urban doesn’t fall for the ‘ASC is worse than the Co$’ narrative that Morty seems to be promulgating.”

              Me too, especially given the fact that Mutty was just being used as one of many different voices that lil davey has assembled to sing that sad song. I’m sure that he’s heard that line before because he used it in an almost verbatim form.

              Hyperbole can be fun, because it’s so easily turned back on itself. For example:

              Mutty: The anti-$cn cult is worse than $cn!

              Me: Oh NOOOO! You mean they’ve begun eating babies? They’ve locked up Jeffrey and Karen somewhere and are making them run around a pole for hours and hours every day? Reza has had all his degrees and credentials cancelled by them and now must retread his entire educational career, beginning with Kindergarten? Please tell me they’re not recruiting kids to work for pennies an hour in Tony O’s infernal Bunker!!!

              With the cult, the truth of their atrocities is often stranger than fiction and more extreme than any hyperbole they could ever think up in order to get folks to believe that cult critics are even in the same universe when it comes to comparing us to them!

              I wouldn’t take your proposed $10 bet because I believe that, like a lot of other untoward, deceptive and creepy shit the cherch engages in on a regular basis, that you have to be deeply involved with the personal aspects of this struggle to begin to appreciate what is just glaringly obvious to us.

              That’s not a knock on him, but more of an invitation to research the subject in different ways that he appears to have thus far.

              But when it comes to ignoring trollishness, I’d just say that if you’re going to be on the internet, then getting that skill down pat is essential, no matter where you go. Besides, most of the pushback he got was not ad hominem attack, but very carefully considered and posed arguments and questions.

          • grundoon

            In religious studies, I suppose “evil” is considered a theological concept that has developed differently within different religious traditions. They would be interested in describing and comparing the traditions while trying to maintain a neutral perspective. To them, I suppose the word “evil” would have meaning only within the context of a particular tradition. They don’t want to get into arguments about which of the many religions is true or correct, or whose definition of “evil” is best.

            Non-sectarian religious studies is inherently a search for the lowest common denominator. Their challenge is to study what can be said to be objectively true about each religion, without themselves engaging in theological debates. They prefer to limit themselves to statements that can be agreed upon as factual by reasonable people both inside and outside the various traditions.

            To us, of course, this is crazy-making. We who are outside the “religious studies” tradition are free to identify “true evil” for what it is. Urban and his peers really cannot do so without taking off the “religious studies scholar” hat to speak of their personal opinions.

            • Harpoona Frittata

              So true! I don’t mind at all being called upon to clarify what I mean by describing the cult as being truly evil, in part, because there are just so many good examples to draw on and such an extensive history to select them from.

              Indeed, I’d be more than happy to have the religious studies folks provide me with a better descriptor there. But the best I can do is come up with synonyms 😉

              I respect scholars who take the time to roll up their sleeves and do the hard work of wading through primary source material; compare and contrast alternate translations of key works and the like, but I suspect that the sheer overwhelming volume of Elron’s own words on the subject would be daunting to anyone. Then, when you add in all the formerly secret materials, including the GO/OSa stuff that very few $cilons even know exists, it’s gotta be intimidating, especially when $cn is only one of many faiths that religious studies scholars have to be well acquainted with.

      • grundoon

        “I politely asked Prof. Urban to point me toward what he deemed is the best work on $cn in his academic field.”

        His own book would probably be a good place to start.

  • ozzybud420

    Hmmmm. Punk teenagers who are in the area vandalizing churches or Scientology vandalizing their own churches to later blame someone else… that’s a tough call being they’re at a similar maturity level!

    • Harpoona Frittata

      Well, in $cn, today’s vandals, thieves and sociopaths are tomorrow’s leaders, so no worries there 😉

      • ozzybud420

        Sort of like political breeding grounds!

  • ozzybud420

    I don’t want to offend anyone so hope this doesn’t get taken wrong but with the recent influx of “refugees” from America streaming across the USA/CAN border I hope the whole new advanced org in Canada thing doesn’t target them as a source of cheap Sea Org labour! Seriously tho, I can actually see them out in the volunteer missionary vests on the border “helping” people across right into a church mission. Just sign this billion year contract. 🙁

    • flyonthewall

      the refugees know to go to the Mounties and get “arrested”. That’s how you have to seek asylum and they’re aware of that.

      • ozzybud420

        I know I’m well aware of this. But its a huge border and hardly patrolled in a lot of areas. Most of the time whoever makes it across gets the 1st person they stumble on to call the RCMP for them.

        • flyonthewall

          I think if anyone tried any weird shit, like recruiting them to the SO, they’d know it and leave asap. Most have been in the US for a long time and know what’s what, they’re not fresh off the boat

          • ozzybud420

            Yah that is very true. Thats why I said “refugees”. But I agree, after traversing the world it would be hard to imagine they’d get sucked in. Especially for the ones who’s claims in the USA have been turned down. They would be VERY suspicious I would imagine.

            • flyonthewall

              so sad that we’re even talking about refugees from America. Freakin bizarro world we’re living in now

            • ozzybud420

              This is very true. totally messed up. The debate on if its possible to be considered a refuge from America is a huge debate all itself.

        • ozzybud420

          REAL churches are actually helping them. They’ve even turned shelters into temporary places for them to stay in BC I understand. Now that winters over (well in SW Ontario anyway) and soon most of Canada they will at least be relatively safe to cross.

    • Noesis

      I’m still waiting for the promised post-election moves of Barbra Streisand and Miley Cyrus to Canada and it would also be amusing if Justin Bieber went back too.

      It is doubtful however that any of them would be signing up for a billion years of free labor there either.

      • ozzybud420

        NO!!! We refuse to take back Bieber. Please. You can do whatever you want with him but for the love of god DONT deport him..

        • Noesis

          Sorry. You spawned him…you own him.


          • ozzybud420

            Ok fine, but how about this as a compromise? We will pay for a wall around Bieber if you pay for a wall around Trump? 😉

  • Scream Nevermore

    Love the pic of Baby, btw!

    • Missionary Kid

      Baby is still hot, even though that’s a shoop. Mr. Baby is telling his friends that is how she looked.

  • Harpoona Frittata

    ” Members are promised that an Advanced Org is a prelude to opening Ideal Orgs in other countries”

    Lil davey’s bass ackward “Field of Screams” strategy (if he builds it, they will come) appears to apply to building Advanced Orgs as well. That same “Idle Morgue” strategy has already proven to be completely ineffective in expanding $cn in the regions in which Ideal Org buildings have been purchased and renovated. So in the pretzel logic world that lil davey – $cn’s top real estate buffoon – inhabits that means that putting the same failed strategy to work at the AO level is, umm, er, well…no more crazy than usual 😉

    Perhaps, like Pinocchio, lil davey feels the very strong desire to become a real boy and that by amassing a world-wide real estate empire he will finally become real himself! Who knows what animates his 10th grade educated mind, but it surely can’t be operating with an understanding of Einstein’s definition of crazy in mind (i.e., doing the same thing that didn’t work over and over again, expecting a different result).

    The wealthy $cilons who’ve backed their not-yet-a-real-boy, absolute ruler need to step back for a moment and reflect on the explicit working assumption that the entire Ideal Org/AO is based on, in order to evaluate its effectiveness and to determine whether or not they wish to continue funding it.

    They need to ask themselves the following kinds of questions: Since the Ideal Org program’s inception over a decade ago, is there any evidence in any region of any country where $cn has a presence that turning an existing org into an Ideal Org has boomed $cn in that region and led to the creation of a continuously growing number of feeder missions in it? Has $cn spread like alien crab grass, putting down roots wherever it goes, to spark new expansion?

    Or, have the hundreds of millions of dollars spent on testing lil davey’s off-policy, squirrel hypothesis concerning the best way to boom $cn (47X!) been enough for his wealthy backers to reach an evidence-based judgement regarding it? A less polite way of asking the same question is: How fucking stupid are you wealthy fools going to continue to be!!? But, since we’re polite folks here, let’s put it in a more neutral way: Exactly how long will those who’ve funded DM’s “Field of Dreams” vision of the best way to exponentially expand $cn need to continue to observe the lack of projected results before they conclude that his strategy has failed?

    If it were me, I’d say that because there’s absolutely no sign in any of the regions where the very first Ideal orgs went in that the effect has been as lil davey hypothesized. Of the more than fifty regions around the world that now have an Ideal Org, is there even one that has achieved the growth in the number of missions, field staff members, etc. that lil davey envisioned?

    If not, then why the reluctance to speak truth to power? If the off-policy program has not proved effective in all this time, then why spend more to fund something that has been proven not to work!? Oh, almost forgot there…once you’ve conned folks into buying a big piece of blue sky, then getting them to chump for some actual real estate purchases is no sweat at all.

    I’m sure that someday lil davey is finally going to become a real boy, but if that happy day has to wait until his Ideal Org scheme finally turns the corner and begins producing the results he promised…well then, lil davey better think in terms of lifetimes, instead of years 😉

    • WhiteCentauress
    • ze moo

      No one within the Clampire is ever going to tell DM that he screwed the pooch. The whales are in thrall just like very other clam to the Niblet. As all info within $cientology is controlled by DM, no one will ever know how badly the current structure is holding up.

      • Harpoona Frittata

        He’s not doing a very good job at it, though, or Leah’s show would never have aired to begin with. Or, if it did air, lil davey would have sued the pants off of the network that ran it.

        Lil davey + evil minions are turning into some real slackers when it comes to defending the faith and fair gaming its enemies, as the Holy Word of Elron specifically requires. Lil davey is damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t these days. So, what’s an aging cult leader to do in the face of such overwhelming entheta and SPs lurking around every next corner?

        Hmmm, how about consolidating the cult and all of its most abundant resources somewhere smaller, safer and more easily bent to his will? Somewhere like Clearwater, for example!

    • PeaceMaker

      Well put.

      I see all this as just the typical insanity of true believers trying to fix their failures with more of their Scientology, according to the dictates of their man-god founder – underlain by a lot of psychological and organizational dysfunction, of the sort that you touch upon. And those following such a strategy, are almost by definition incapable of the sort of critical reflection that you cite as being necessary to get out of their bind. I think it is most likely the case that, perhaps typically of such dynamics, things will only change when external forces and factors, or catastrophic events, force a reckoning.

      Sometimes I think that the archetype for this behavior in Scientology, is Hubbard’s “magickal” workings with Jack Parsons, trying to set up some sort of perfected ceremony that when performed exactly right, will allow them to tap the mysterious powers of the universe and produce a creation never seen before.
      Also, as I’ve noted before, I think that an interesting and very comparable example is Christian Science, which even if perhaps a bit more responsibly run, still seems to have made the ideological decision to keep to strict adherence with their founder’s doctrine and dictates, even if that means following the Shakers down the path to extinction. (And, darn if the Shakers aren’t likeable, and I really wouldn’t wish such a fate for them!)

      • Harpoona Frittata

        Your reference to Hubbard’s kinky Sex Magick days with Jack Parsons reminds me of the occult prime directive he seems to have embraced most deeply on a secret level, while proclaiming the exact opposite in public: “Do what thou will”.

        If one pays close attention to what Elron actually did, instead of all the many words that he spoke, then it seems clear that despite his words to the contrary, Elron lived by that fundamentally nihilistic and sociopathic precept throughout his life.

        The astonishing success of the long con that is $cn has always required that each new person being jumped into the cult not understand that crucial insight; and the reason that the cherch is now collapsing is that more and more folks are coming to see the vast gulf between the beliefs he voiced publicly and how his actions directly led to their antithesis.

      • Harpoona Frittata

        Just as AIDS is a qualitatively different kind of disease because it targets the immune system itself, and thereby opens the body to all manner of infectious diseases, Scn effectively wipes out the critical reasoning capacities of those who fall victim to this deadly meme disease, thus rendering them susceptible to the increasingly whacky and ever-more improbable space opera gibberish that they end up being fed as they go up the bridge to Total Financial Ruin and Complete Other-Determinism.

        Friends don’t let friends do $cn anymore than they would let them put their face in a meat grinder!

        • Never_in

          Your paragraph gave me a big laugh. You have really nailed it, and with such semantic flair.

  • ze moo

    Mexico City for an ‘advanced saint hill morg’? Well, if you want to expand in Latin America, I suppose Mexico City is a good place to put your Spanish speaking clams. I have to wonder if this is just a real estate portfolio fattening event. $cientology has done very little with Latin America in the past, why try to expand there now?

    The New Times syndicate used to be a powerhouse of alternative journalism. It is nice to see it still survives in Miami and other places. Tom Elfrink got to the mayor and got his quotes and the story. Well done, Tom. The mayor just shows that safe pointing gets results. Same in Burbank California. I wonder if other politicos will chime in for NAMBLA?

  • Lousy Ratatouille
  • Tony Ortega

    How’s everyone feel about a bonus afternoon post?

    • Mick Roberts

      Always! No need to ever ask that question again!

    • WhiteCentauress

      The birthday bonus was awesome fun….

    • Hell yeah!

    • $cnMonkeyNut$

      Yes, please!ETA: Always want moar 🙂

    • flyonthewall
      • vicariousthrill

        omg I love this. can’t stop laughing. thank you.

    • TheMirrorThetan

      Does it feature Johnny T in his birthday suit?
      Because if it doesn’t then don’t bother.

      J/K . As if we would be nutty enough to turn down an extra post. 😀

      • ExCult.Jan

        Anybody seen Johnny around? Is he still looking for his assless chaps that Walrus borrowed?

        • TheMirrorThetan

          I Don’t know. Hope he is Ok and just busy or taking a break.
          I miss him and his fine arse. 🙂

  • Mick Roberts

    I know this isn’t the crux of today’s story, but I just can’t help myself…..

    “the star and laurel symbol of the Sea Org….adopted and used as the symbol of a Galactic Confederation far back in the history of this sector.”

    To those still in the bubble of Scientology, yet who may (anonymously) read this website……come on now! Are you seriously going to buy this ridiculous horse-shit from someone who was well-known for writing science fiction? Sure, you may try to overlook the “sci-fi” stuff of LRH, but if he made up a bunch of bullshit like this, a rational person must begin to question what else this guy made up while writing Dianetics and the “textbooks of Scientology”.

    You’re much smarter than this. I completely understand that “thinking” can be one of the hardest things to do in life (truly, it’s certainly difficult for anyone to actually think for themselves), but don’t be a total dupe and allow some bizarre character like this guy (who’s been dead for over 3 decades) to do the thinking for you.

    • Noesis

      Just as an FYI, the symbolism that Scientology uses was heavily indoctrinated into most Sea Org members…the average public did not get as much of that as would those who served in the Sea Org or on staff.

      Hubbard seemed to be convinced (or at least he tried to convince others) that he was activating implants and other stimulus-response thought patterns when he used such symbolism…the stuff is adorned in plain sight all over Scientology, it’s promotional literature and its published works.

      It is hilarious to those who have escaped or were never involved, but has various levels of import to those still inside the thought bubble.

    • Noallball

      Hiya Mick. I read your posts here and on Mike’s blog. I enjoy reading them although I don’t always agree with everything you feel. The only difference in our views today is the capitalization of hubbard’s initials. I never capitalize anything to do with the cos or hubbard. Being a very strict grammar freak I know it’s against all the rules; however, it’s the one exception I make in the names of the victims of scientology. So I just thought I’d let you know my view. I’ll still read and enjoy your comments either way, but as far as I’m concerned lrh and cos don’t deserve capitalization.

  • Tony Ortega


  • Silence of the Clams
  • AngryNotSoOldHippy .

    “But they didn’t let the neighbors in on the plan.”

    ROFL! Of course they didn’t, every time these filthy crooks with their gross human rights crimes and abuses tell anyone that they are the Scientology crime syndicate, they get massive opposition from actual citizens.

    Mexico doesn’t need any more organized crime rings operating in their country, they already have plenty, thank you very much, David, you asshole.

  • Missionary Kid

    With the help of jimpjorps and Google translate, here is a full translation of the petition that is in Spanish above. I’ve put the dense copy into paragraphs.



    The Church of Scientology (Dianetics), has more than fifty years of litigation with the legal system of most of the countries in which it has entered.

    Since 1967, the institution and its members have passed through the courts of the United States, Canada, France, Spain, Italy, Russia, Greece, Australia, Norway, Switzerland, Denmark, Holland and Sweden for crimes against physical and mental well being, conspiracy, fraud, obstruction to justice, defamation, extortion, falsification of documents, practicing medicine without license, interception of other people’s mail, privacy violation, threats, and many other [offenses], more typical of organized crime than a religious cult.

    Most ended with guilty sentences that sent their members to prison and in some cases forced the organization to stop their activities in those countries. In the United States alone, they have been implicated in more than 300 court cases.

    One of the most infamous feats pulled off by this organization was Operation Snow White, when, in 1977 the FBI stormed the headquarters of Scientology in the US to to dismantle a spy network set up by L. Ron Hubbard, founder of the sect, against the United States Government.

    In 1979, Hubbard’s wife and a dozen senior officers were convicted of conspiracy against the federal government.

    On the Internet one can find many sites that denounce the illegal activities of Scientology: disappearances of people who were members, brainwashing, scams, kidnappings, murder, and all kinds of other crimes. Many families have lost a member because of the “disconnection” (turning one’s back [shunning]), in which the Scientologist must cease contact with non-Scientologists.


    • Missionary Kid

      Since it’s supposedly a wealthier district, I hope that the neighbors will pull together to stop $cientology.

      Here’s a story that illuminates where I’m coming from. In 1969, there was a blow-out on an oil well in the Santa Barbara Channel. The Santa Barbara area at that time had some very wealthy conservative people, particularly in Montecito. There has always been natural oil seepage to the west of Santa Barbara, around Devereux Point, which would end up on the beaches to the east of the point as blobs of tar, particularly at Isla Vista and the University of California at Santa Barbara, but this leak was MASSIVE.

      [Geography lesson. The coast line in that area runs generally east and west. If you call Santa Barbara tower and tell them you are 5 miles south, they will ask you if you’re over water. If you reply that you’re over land, they will correct you and tell you that you’re 5 miles EAST. Santa Barbara is directly west of Magic Mountain, and is actually slightly east of Reno Nevada. People forget that California is banana shaped].

      I flew over the leak, and saw the huge stain on the ocean. When the oil hit Santa Barbara, Montecito, Summerland, and, particularly Santa Barbara Harbor with the boats and beaches of the wealthy, there were a whole bunch of wealthy conservatives who became conservationists. They had a LOT of political pull. The oil spill is credited with becoming the beginning of the modern environmental movement and Earth Day.

      I hope that the neighborhood that $cientology is building in has wealthy, influential people who will be offended by $cientology’s smarmy reputation and get the building shut down.

  • peggy oconnor

    What traffic? Who could afford cars 🚖 and how many members there? 20? This so called church is an abomination an example of the anti church as it doesn’t practice what it so calls preaches.

  • Faux Gibbler

    It nakedness me sick that Scientology is gonna try to swindle money out of Mexico. Mexicans run to the U.S. For a better life.

    DEAR Mexico,
    Scientology does not represent America. They are a breed of their own.