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Who was responsible when Scientology finally paid Lawrence Wollersheim a lot of thin dimes?

greenewollersheimatack

[Ford Greene, Lawrence Wollersheim, and Jon Atack]

On some Saturdays (and on other days), we’re fortunate here at the Underground Bunker to publish an occasional item by Jon Atack. His 1990 book, A Piece of Blue Sky, was one of the first that we read for a history of L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology, and it remains one of the very best books on the subject. That’s partly because Atack speaks from experience, having spent years in Scientology and rising into its “OT” levels, but also because of his many years of dogged research. Few people have the breadth of knowledge about Scientology’s first 40 years as Jon Atack.

Two weeks ago, Jon submitted a piece to us that recounted a specific period of Scientology history, and about how his research had helped Lawrence Wollersheim finally collect a judgment from the church after more than two decades of suing Scientology.

We ourselves had previously written about the long legal ordeal of Larry Wollersheim, a former Scientologist who sued the church because he said its processes had harmed him. Wollersheim won a huge $30 million judgment in a famous 1986 trial in Los Angeles, but the amount was then reduced on appeal to $2.5 million. Even then the church vowed never to pay “one thin dime to Wollersheim.” It wasn’t until May 2002, 16 years after his trial victory, that Wollersheim finally collected his money, which by then had grown to nearly $9 million with interest. After interviewing attorneys involved in the case, that fall we prepared a 7,000-word cover story about the entire Wollersheim saga when the newspaper we were working for, New Times Los Angeles, suddenly shut down. It wasn’t until 2008, six years later, that we finally published that story at the Village Voice.

Anyway, we bring that up just to explain that we already had a pretty good basic understanding of what Wollersheim went through to finally collect his money. The final push came from the hard work from some very smart attorneys, as well as a brilliant affidavit prepared by Robert Vaughn Young, the former Scientology spokesman who had turned critic, and who had prepared the detailed document even as he was fighting the cancer that he succumbed to in 2003.

The Vaughn Young affidavit was brilliant because it laid bare the real corporate structure of the Church of Scientology, using the church’s own legal documents to explain how David Miscavige, Captain of the Sea Organization (which has no legal status as an entity) actually wields total control over the alphabet soup of Scientology’s many corporate entities. And this was important to Wollersheim’s case because by 2002 the entity he had sued, the Church of Scientology of California, was pretty much dormant and had no money. Using Vaughn Young’s affidavit, Wollersheim’s attorneys had prepared for a court hearing at which they were going to argue that the Scientology corporate shell game was a sham, and the church shouldn’t be able to hide money by claiming that CSC was broke. The very morning that this document was to be introduced into court, Scientology suddenly turned over a check for $8,674,843 and ended the case — after spending 16 years vowing never to pay Wollersheim one thin dime.

In the piece Jon recently wrote, he remarked on his own research on the corporate structure of Scientology and how he had helped Lawrence Wollersheim win his victory. Still remembering our 2008 story, we didn’t have a memory of Jon being involved in the case, but we didn’t assume that we knew everything about it. We published Jon’s piece, which contained this line…

Lawrence Wollersheim came near to the end of his heroic 20-year battle, only to find that the Church of Scientology of California (the “mother church”) had only thousands left in its bank accounts, so my argument was vital to his judgment.

We soon heard from attorney Ford Greene, who was one of the lawyers who had worked so hard to help Wollersheim finally get his money. Ford objected, saying that Atack had nothing to do with that court fight…

Atack may have “constructed an argument,” but whatever he constructed had nothing to do with obtaining a recovery for Larry Wollersheim or the other substantial litigation I personally conducted. As you know, Dan Leipold, Craig Stein, Leta Schlosser and I comprised the team representing Wollersheim when Scientology interpled the $8.7 million payoff for Wollersheim’s judgment into the Los Angeles County Superior Court. The proceeding that was to commence and which Scientology avoided exposure by preventing its commencement when it interpled the money was a specially set 10-day hearing on our motion to amend the judgment against CSC so as to include at least RTC and CSI. It was based on the alter ego theory that the Sea Org ran Scientology and corporate positions were filed only by Sea Org members. I came up with the alter ego theory in the context of amending a judgment when I happened to come across that one could do that while conducting unrelated research in Witkin’s Summary of California Law. Jon Atack had nothing to do with this.

Both Ford and Jon sent us their memories of how they had met, and what they remember of those days, as we tried to reconstruct how the case had gone. Jon sent this reply to Ford’s point that he had not been involved in the work leading up to the 2002 resolution of the case.

Lawrence approached me in 1994 asking for my help in demonstrating the corporate structure of Scientology. He told me that his judgment was stuck because it was against CSC. I sent him my detailed argument concerning the corporate monolith. He sent me a cheque once he had been paid with a note of thanks.

We could understand that Ford didn’t want Jon taking credit for work he and others had done later, but it looked to us like there was mostly a misunderstanding based on the timing of the work that had been done over several years, and perhaps not everyone was aware of what everyone else had done in that long and complex case. And that seemed to be the explanation when Lawrence Wollersheim himself chimed in to help clear up the situation…

Jon Atack did provide me with important materials, and others who have asked to remain anonymous provided important documents as well on the corporate structure and religion issues. I hope to write down all my recollections of this complex team action as soon as I can get a chance…

There were many important documents from numerous sources that were used by Craig Stein, the bankruptcy attorney, and Dan Leipold, the trial attorney. I do remember that Ford Greene also contributed important arguments on top of the bankruptcy arguments of Craig Stein and the legal arguments of Dan Leipold.

I do not know if the collections of documents from multiple sources that I got to Craig Stein and to Dan Leipold were transferred to Ford Greene directly by them or discussed by them with Ford Greene before he came up with his new and unique arguments that also helped win the case.

One thing I can tell you with certainty is that the Wollersheim case was won through a collective team effort. It took many lawyers over many years and it took many ex-members contributing enormous amounts of information and documents to the continuous process. I can also tell you with certainty that Jon’s documents made a big difference, as well as Gerry Armstrong’s and several other parties who have asked to remained anonymous in the most critical arguments surrounding religious status and corporate structure.

I hope you guys can see the result is a collaborative team effort with no one individual being responsible for the lion’s share of credit.

We hope that settles the issue. As far as the Underground Bunker is concerned, Lawrence Wollersheim’s story is still one of the most crucial to understanding Scientology’s long legal history, and Ford Greene and Jon Atack are two of the figures we hold in the highest esteem for their contributions to the field.

— Your Proprietor

 
——————–

Bonus items from our tipsters

When you’ve given up on the idea of bringing in new people and can only desperately try to hold on to the oldtimers with nostalgia…

 
lrhearlyyears

 
That must have been a pretty hefty check.

 
scitampa15

 
——————–

3D-UnbreakablePosted by Tony Ortega on October 22, 2016 at 07:00

E-mail tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Our book, The Unbreakable Miss Lovely: How the Church of Scientology tried to destroy Paulette Cooper, is on sale at Amazon in paperback, Kindle, and audiobook versions. We’ve posted photographs of Paulette and scenes from her life at a separate location. Reader Sookie put together a complete index. More information about the book, and our 2015 book tour, can also be found at the book’s dedicated page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of L.A. attorney and former church member Vance Woodward
UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists
GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice
SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

Other links: Shelly Miscavige, ten years gone | The Lisa McPherson story told in real time | The Cathriona White stories | The Leah Remini ‘Knowledge Reports’ | Hear audio of a Scientology excommunication | Scientology’s little day care of horrors | Whatever happened to Steve Fishman? | Felony charges for Scientology’s drug rehab scam | Why Scientology digs bomb-proof vaults in the desert | PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer | The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill | Scientology boasts about assistance from Google | The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

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  • Panopea Abrupta

    “Not one thin dime”
    A hell of a lot of crime, though, DM.
    And some day, that bill will come due. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3865d31236415024a3e8a2b12a1a991786738a6266a213a10daf78d1e713b3a7.jpg

    • OOkpik

      What a beautiful Cedar Waxwing! This makes me smile.

      • Chee Chalker

        I love someone who knows their birds!

        • Robert Eckert

          I was interested in bird-watching as a kid, but was disappointed one day when I saw a bird with striking red stripes on its wings, otherwise black, and went to look up what it was called: “red-winged blackbird”? All those birds with weird names like “wren” and “titmouse” and “starling” and that’s the best they could do?

    • Jenyfurrrrr

      That’s a gorgeous shot Pan! That’s one bird I’ve only ever seen in pics, not in person. Gorgeous!

  • PickAnotherID

    Those documents showing the corporate sham would have been nice to have available in several cases since Larry’s. Especially some of he narCONon cases.

    • They are on the internet and have been for some years. Google is your friend. 🙂

  • OOkpik

    The Wollersheim case introduced me to you, Tony, The Village Voice, and the legal machinations of CofS. Your article remains one of the most memorable I have read about the church.
    Thanks,Tony.

    • Jenyfurrrrr

      Agreed OOk! This story & Hana’s were the ones that really pulled me into the rabbit hole full time! I read the LW article Tony had done before CO$ had a personal impact on our lives, then AFTER I went looking for that article again and found the UB & everyone here!

  • LongtimeLurker

    That proud “not one thin dime to Wollersheim” doggerel has always grated on me (is there a hint of a racist dog whistle there?)

    But that aside, the whole thing is yet another heartwarming example of Scientology’s patented Foot-Bullet Technology©™®.

    1 – Wollersheim files to sue.

    2 – Scientology doesn’t even try to settle (“always attack”). Who knows what Mr Wollersheim would have taken? Maybe nothing, because he wanted the public exposure of Scientology’s abuses.

    But heck, maybe he’d have taken $ 5 million? > Footbullet 1

    3 – Instead he wins a $30 million judgement. A finding against the Church of an amount this large is pretty bad publicity in itself.

    4 – They appeal. Of course, I would.

    5 – It’s massively reduced to $2.5 million. Instead of paying, they come up with an off-putting chant, backed by a tenuous, possibly even non-existent legal strategy.

    To the casual observer (which I was when I first read about the case) it makes Scientology look vindictive,
    disrespectful of the legal system and kind of stupid. > Footbullet 2

    6 – They hold off for 16 years (I’m sure they see making Wollersheim wait as a win, but whatever) and then they have to pay $9 million with interest (a 260% increase). > Footbullet 3

    I know they’re worth a lot, but $9 million is $9 million. Also, if I had given a lot of money to Scientology, hearing about that would really lump my gravy.

    Keep the footbullets coming Davy, you silly gimp.
    .
    .
    .
    eta – shameful spelling issues

    • SarahDB

      What a great expression, “lump my gravy” 😀

      • chukicita

        Was it Rasha or Draco who said “grate my carrot” here yesterday?

        Both times I nearly spilled my coffee.

        • Rasha

          Draco. <3

        • Jenyfurrrrr

          That’s what I thought of after reading this, also! I literally LOL’d!

      • LongtimeLurker

        Thx. I made that!

        It’s my new thing, I’m trying to come up with a different one every time.

        • chukicita

          Whatever steams your clams.

          • LongtimeLurker

            Are you saying my time could be better spent?

            Man, that really humps my leg.

            Wait…what?

        • SarahDB

          Well whip my cream!

      • DoveAlexa

        This thread went from super cereal to super cute real fast! I love it.

      • Jenyfurrrrr

        Lol was going to say the same – cracked me up!

    • Chee Chalker

      Don’t forget the (probably) millions they spent in legal fees

      • LongtimeLurker

        Yes, good point.

      • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

        Money for lawyers, but not for enemies!

        Lawyers see through nutty Scientology, reap the money, enemies of Scientology are a boon to some lawyers back in the day. They never lose, they get their money if Scientology’s enemies win or lose.

    • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

      Ironic that spendthrift Rockefeller was big on giving out dimes, for Scientology to use the “dime” metaphor, shows Scientology’s/Miscavige’s undereducatedness in even supposedly criticizing their “enemies” by using words that reminisce Hubbard’s fears of Rockefeller world takeover.

      Perfectly Hubbard mentality. Being one up on Hubbard’s nemesis SP world domineering Rockefeller in stinginess. Hubbard “greatness” and undereducatedness on display.

      It’s in Scientology’s DNA since it is in Hubbard’s DNA to doubledown on their being crass bold crankly wrong.

    • Harpoona Frittata

      The old aphorism, “Justice delayed is justice denied,” comes to mind here in noting how long it took $camatology to finally pay up after the initial verdict was rendered in the Wollersheim caase. However, the silver lining of that particularly evil dark cloud is that, after spending huge amounts of cash to pay their own high-dollar shyster legal team to endlessly delay paying Wollersheim the award he was owed, the cherch quickly came up with the cash to pay it when it became clear that the corporate shell game that they’d used to hoodwink the IRS and disguise its actual corporate power structure – with lil davey the savage reigning supreme above all – was about to be publicly exposed and made part of the official court record. In doing so, the cherch and its small army of legal weasels have implicitly acknowledged the exact point of maximum structural weakness in the whole sham legal superstructure of $cn corporate entities that were devised to obtain federal tax exempt status and negotiate down the huge amount of back taxes and penalties owed to the IRS by the cherch in its initial incarnation as the Church of Scientology California.

      The very same argument that Wollersheim’s lawyers were prepared to use to expose this fraudulent corporate shell game if the cherch had not hastily decided to finally pay up is the one that should be made to the IRS to rescind $cn’s truly undeserved federal tax exempt status. Indeed, if the IRS had actually done its job in closely monitoring the cherch in the 5 year probationary period that ensued after its settlement with the cherch, then they would have discovered that ultimate authority within the cherch, which was supposed to reside within a board of directors, was actually wielded by only one individual, its chairman, David Miscavige, who maintained absolute dictatorial control and unchecked power before, during and after the IRS ruling which granted the re-organized corporate cherch its 510c3 federal tax exempt status.

      While Larry Wollersheim eventually did receive what was owed to him, through the dogged efforts of a whole team of dedicated individuals, justice continues to be denied to the thousands who have been, and continue to be, victimized by this organized crime group which has been given legal cover by virtue of their undeserved federal tax exempt status as a charitable religious organization and the toothless oversight of the IRS.

  • EnthralledObserver

    I did that!

    NO… I did that.

    NO… no, I’m responsible… you weren’t even there.

    I was so… you are the one who wasn’t there.

    I came up with it first, before you.

    No… that was me.

    ^^^ Childish whining. Who the fuck cares!?

    • LongtimeLurker

      Their moms?

  • chukicita

    I had several email exchanges with RVY, mostly between 1994 and 2000 or so.

    In the late 90s I got into a car accident – was rear-ended by a truck – and hurt my neck and wrists. I was working on a research project at the time (nothing to do with the Wollersheim case), but for several years it was really painful to sit and especially sit and type. So I had to bow out and let folks know I wouldn’t be contributing as I would have liked.

    RVY emailed me with the kindest words that I have never forgotten. He said that the fight against Scientology is a long run; more of a relay race, and it’s okay to pass the baton when you need to.

    I’m sure there were more hands passing batons during the Wollersheim case than any of them will ever individually know.

    • Missionary Kid

      That is a gracious post on your part, and speaks to Robert Vaughn Young’s character. RIP.

    • Jenyfurrrrr

      Thanks for sharing that! (I do love hearing your history!) In all recollections, he sounds like one hell of a guy who worked hard to help so many people! His working on the LW case as he battled cancer is a testimony to that. But how incredible to hear that he was encouraging and so kind also, esp since many people who are passionately involved in a subject like this can be militant about making sure everyone “fights the fight” as hard as they do. Sounds like an incredible guy with a huge heart.

      Your last sentence says it perfectly!

  • dchoiceisalwaysrs

    When COB goes to prison will he and all his alter ego be given real professional treatment for modern criminal mental illnesses?
    It does appear that their criminal recidivism is still out of control.

    • Techie

      At present there is no medical treatment for the true sociopath. Since they will never concede that there is anything wrong with them, most psychiatric treatments are ineffective. Medication may be partially effective but as soon as it cannot be enforced the sociopath ceases taking it. The best treatment that COB could receive would be to isolate him from society in prison so he cannot harm others on the scale he is doing now. I am not an expert on this, just repeating what I have read. For example “The Sociopath Next Door”, by Martha Stout. Hope Kay or someone with more knowledge chimes in.

      • chukicita

        I am not a professional, but I am skeptical that there would be any effective treatment for Miscavigitis, or the inflammation of ego of the kind suffered by a self-made Homo Novis.

    • picketflag247

      He would very likely refuse all professional treatment for mental
      illnesses, unless he had a breakdown, and then he would only accept
      psychiatric drugs and keep it secret.

  • Chee Chalker

    Clearly the only person responsible for Larry ‘Lots of Dimes’ Wollersheim’s legal victory is a man called Norty Mashbone, the world’s leading expert on the feelings of David ‘Boss Buffalo’ Miscavige

    Until Norty is recognized as the SOLE source of this victory, I shall silently protest all the many fora of Co$ critic websites,

    Just like it takes a village to raise a child, it takes a village to fight the Co$.

    Inimically yours,

    Chee

    I’m guessing this is a case of one party figuring out the successful legal maneuver while another party successfully preparing the underlying information (the substance of the material)

    Kind of like one party brought the gun to the battle and another party brought the bullets

    • chukicita

      But who brought the snacks?!

    • LongtimeLurker

      I can’t believe I needed to be reminded of Rumpy Mappinbun’s involvement in this.

      Thank you Chee, I was blind but now I can see.

      Also, he invented peanut-butter.

      • Chee Chalker

        Smooth or crunchy?

        • LongtimeLurker

          Smooth.

          Crunchy is SP out-tech propagated by the ASC community.

          Although I quite like it.

          • gtsix

            I prefer smooth for sammich, but crunchy for ants on a log.

            ( why yes, I am eating a pb & banana sammich. Excellent breakfast nosh)

            • LongtimeLurker

              Now Lurker want 2am PB & banana sammich.

              But got no PB, bananas or bread. : (

            • JaxNGold

              Lol…ants on a log. Haven’t heard that since I was a little kid in Girl Scouts. My Mom made it with peanut butter smothered on celery sticks topped with raisins. Yum.

            • gtsix

              Yep, great energy filled treat. I still love them – whenever I buy celery, I make sure to have at least one stalk for the ants. So good

      • Robert Hanna Moore

        Peanuts aren’t even nuts!!

      • chukicita

        I know the man who invented peanut butter was born a slave.

        • LongtimeLurker

          I hope it didn’t seem like I was denigrating his achievement.

          I was trying to mock Marty’s frequent claims of being the creative force behind things that were actually around long before he was on the scene.

          • chukicita

            Of course… maybe I haven’t had enough coffee … I was making a joke about Marty’s being a slave himself.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Oh. Got it. Good one!

              No…it’s my lack of the coffee that was the problem. Also, just a general anxiety of offending people.

  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

    There is a character, “Forde Green,” perhaps based on the real life lawyer, perhaps in honour of the real life lawyer in the Canadian film, “Ticket to Heaven”. The film is about a Toronto Jewish stand-up comic whose cousin, a school teacher, gets roped into a nameless cult (but it’s the Unification Church) in California. Forde Greene is a deprogrammer, apparently similar to the deprogrammer hired by the family in real life. It was based on the book, “Moonwebs”. The film stars Kim Cattrell, Saul Rubineck and a whole bunch of people you have never heard of. It got a respectable 78% on Rotten Tomatoes. Just in case you don’t have any popcorn in your lap or two hours to kill on a Saturday there is a Ford Greene scene at 121.08.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoavV7D74BU

  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

    It may be a good day to make this strange, strange announcement.

    My first book, a graphic novel, is now in sales catalogues and will be available in book stores very early in the new year. It has nothing to do with Scientology whatsoever. It is being published by a respectable company.

    However, because I am keeping my identity a secret I am not going to tell you the name of the book or the name of the publisher and I am especially not going to tell you the name of the author. You will just have to use your OT powers to figure that out. So while I am not anticipating increased sales through the members of this board I do want to share my happiness with you. It took two years to write and draw this thing and it will still be a few months before I have a copy in my hand.

    If anyone takes a photo of the book they think it is, with a landmark behind it and posts it here I will tell them if they have guessed right, but hey, the chances are about one in ten thousand so why even bother.

    I just wanted to share in the same way so many have shared other landmarks in their lives.

    • chukicita

      How exciting! Congratulations!

    • Contamminated

      Congratulations! That is no small accomplishment. Good luck, I hope it does well.

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        I am Tone 40 on it becoming a major motion picture. However, realistically, I am expecting to make about $.50 an hour off the sales.

        • Contamminated

          It’s good to have goals! If you are looking to earn 50 cents an hour, the Sea Org is looking for some fresh meat…err, I mean recruits!

        • chukicita

          Hey, I hear they’re making a movie of “The Empty Man.” Graphic-novel-to-screen is the next wave.

        • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

          I wish Kerry Gleason would give his hindsight views.

          Are you in touch with Kerry, if so, ask Kerry to please give his views of his Sea Org career.

          There are so many ex top level old Saint Hill era, then Apollo era ex Sea Org biggies who I hope to hell write some Sea Org and Hubbard history before they die.

          There is so much history just slipping into the grave as ex Sea Org, ex Saint Hill era Scientologists who lived and followed LRH’s orders all pass on.

          I had hoped Fred Hare would come around before he passed, but he didn’t, and I haven’t heard of anything he might have written. Shame that Scientologists who had great facetime volume with Hubbard aren’t mentally unravelled enough by the time they pass, to reveal MORE details of their top history especially during Hubbard’s life.

          Fred in particular received auditing from LRH, and Fred’s the pc in a famous Demonstration audio tape that all interns listen to, for hearing LRH’s auditing presence, and Fred’s the preclear.

          • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03
            • Jon Atack

              If my memory serves me well (it sometimes does as, being Natural Clear I have no body thetans), Fred was the very first person to be declared Fair Game. He was chased around the streets of East Grinstead to the horror of residents. This was before Hubbard realized that the First Policy of Scientology is to make friends with the public and the environment (he hadn’t read the upper level tech of Dale Carnegie, I presume).

            • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

              http://www.forum.exscn.net/archive/index.php/t-4842.html

              In the days when you do your Internship auditing, you listen to about 3 or 4 different LRH demonstration auditing tapes.

              One of those tapes is the infamous “Fish and Fumble” session that LRH gives to Fred.

              Fred on that tape gives up overts (misdeeds) and you hear Fred tell of this lifetime overts (misdeeds) and also past lives overts (misdeeds) , in answer to LRH’s that era sec check question, which didn’t have the whole time, place, form and event answering, it just got some details and then LRH rechecks the sec check question.

              LRH at that time in the sec checking would vary the sec check question, and you see in the “Fish and Fumble” demonstration tape in particular, LRH examples of “varying the question” and that is importantly a sec checker skill for blocked moments in session when the person isn’t being asked just the exact right overt (misdeed) question to stir them to dig into their past and find that nasty thing they did.

              Well, the “Fish and Fumble” auditing demonstration tape is absolute proof of Hubbard’s sec checking skills, it gets into some truly obscene material, albeit “past lives” incidents from the deceased Fred Hare’s planet hopping past lives incidents.

              It’s a truly infamous LRH auditing session example that just is standout, you don’t forget it, and I always wondered Fred’s thoughts on his wholetrack overts of that session, did he believe in them for real.

              That “Fish and Fumble” tape is reminiscent of today’s False Purpose Rundown technical procedure, in that today’s False Purpose sec checking requires one delve INTO one’s past lives for the basic on the chain overt (misdeed chain) and for the basic on the chain “prior confusion” which Hubbard’s FPRD theory says is beneath the basic overt (earliest misdeed of similar nature in a person’s “whole” past lives full existence over eons of time) on that same “false purpose/evil intention” chain that you happen to be running.

              Past track overts, they are gruesome. “Fish and Fumble” example Hubbard sec checking session on Fred Hare is proof of that, straight from the Hubbard horse’s mouth.

              An alltime important footnote for the ramifications of what that all Hubbard’s whole track misdeed talk therapy even means and what it looks like.

              Getting people to run these past lives gruesome thoughts which per Hubbard’s Scientology theory one is supposed to believe is one’s actual past lives memories.

              Not a healthy mental practice, and the Fred Hare session by L. Ron Hubbard is an example of the crank Hubbard practice and reason NOT to delve into Scientology.

              http://www.forum.exscn.net/archive/index.php/t-4842.html

            • Jon Atack

              One of the proofs of Hubbard’s perfidy is the move away from whole track sec checking to focus on ‘overts’ that could be used against the subject (i.e. ‘this lifetime’). And then we could always stick footplates on or tie the cans into the armpits as he so helpfully suggested…

            • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

              Hubbard’s condemnatory remark that “diving pasttrack to avoid serious overts this lifetime” relates for sure to Sec Checking.

              False Purpose Rundown, one’s a little slacker, not so much interested in the overt this lifetime to use over the person. FPRD focus jumps to the evil purpose prior to the basic overt, and run that by chain back to basic evil purp/intention and THEN go for the resolving “Prior Confusion” that prompted the evil purp/intention.

              So FPRD is whole track again,supposedly more auditing FOR the person as opposed sec checking to find this lifetime overts that get listed out in the RTC Pers and Ethics Data Base ultimately as a permanent hold over that person!

              Someday Jon, some RTC person with access to the RTC Pers and Ethics Data Base will download it all and send it to the FBI as evidence of the extent of Scientology’s holding people’s transgressions over their heads.

              Scientology still has it massively way more intrusive and data bases with the serious out-qualifying transgressions of Scientology members, which Scientology RTCers with access have all those transgressions on file in the INCOMM RTC Pers and Ethics Data Base.

              I used that RTC Pers and Ethics Data Base, and there is a “field” of “out qualifications” and that info in the “out qualifications” field is people’s worst transgressions which have been revealed most likely with sec checking.

          • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

            I don’t know Kerry. There are no ex-Scientologists beyond my family that I am in touch with face to face. I can relate to your situation though, and I have similar feelings about the person who innocently brought me into Scientology when I was a boy of 17.

            He is a cousin and he sometimes reads this forum. Sadly, he is not at all well but he is optimistically planning for the future. He left Scientology in 1991, having been an executive in Los Angeles. He has rarely spoken of his days there but when he does, the stories are fascinating. I wish he would right them down. If he is reading this, IF YOU ARE READING THIS COUSIN OF MINE, people want to know. Decades of information will be lost to us all, if he doesn’t put it onto paper.

            • Jon Atack

              I encourage everyone to write a memoir. I recently heard from an interviewee of mine from 30 years back who continues to believe and was close to Hubbard. He suggested that the mood against Hubbard is so bad now that there is no point in him offering his view.I encouraged him as best I can – I have a decidedly low opinion of Hubbard, and I can justify with reams of evidence. Which makes it all the more important for those who liked him and had considerable experience of him to speak out.

              However, I’d also recommend that the memoirs of Joe Winter – who was with Hubbard in the months leading up to the sea change in the ‘Tech’ that led to DMSMH – and Helen O’Brien – who ran the HAS and the PDC – are vital material.

          • Jon Atack

            I had dinner with Kerry over 20 years ago. I’d hoped to prime him for an interview about his exploits in the C Org, so after the last mouthful I asked him, ‘What do you think of Scientology?’ His response was ‘It’s shit’ and that was as far as we got on the subject. On reflection, it is a pretty fair summation.

            • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

              Huge important comment from Kerry to print somewhere in some book so others who later read the Hubbard traffic to Kerry, and hear of Kerry’s rising up into the ranks of Scientology management and to ED Int position, being ED Int number two in Scientology history, it puts in context the weight of that simple “shit” answer Kerry gave summarizing all of SCienotlogy.

              Good for him!

              This is an important footnote that ought to be included in some book, honestly, Jon!

              Someday, like way after we are all fricking dead, ALL of the comments of the people who spent so much damned facetime and had so much traffic sent to them by Hubbard, and did so much of Hubbard’s bidding, all of those firsthand participants trying to do Hubbard’s bidding the best they thought (and Kerry was a damned capable guy) for them to have their hindsight thoughts recorded is so vital.

              Please footnote that.

              All hindsight comments by former Commodore’s Staff Aides, Exec Strata, Watchdog Committee people, old Flag Bureaux people, old LRH Personal Office staffs, all their hindsight comments since so damned many of them did loads of facetime and co-lived history upclose to Hubbard, all their comments and views are all important footnotes.

              “Disgruntled apostate” condemnatory label misinformation that academics have not the deep understanding nor firsthand experience near Hubbard to even be competent in them issuing the “disgruntled apostate” label.

              Jon you’re the best, thankyou for your brain cells! Or, just thankyou JA braincells!

            • Jon Atack

              There is a footnote on the footnote – back then – in the later 1980s, Kerry was still making a living as a management consultant and I think he was relying on a certain discredited expert…

              My braincells indicate their gratitude! And they wish to celebrate your many contributions – keep on keeping on!

        • Lady Squash

          I feel you. I am working on a manuscript. I’ve been working on it for five years. I just printed out the entire thing, about 170 pages. I reread the first 3 chapters and hated them. I reduced them to about two pages. I’ll be lucky to make $.05 an hour off sales.

          • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

            I also spent years writing a very bad prose book which was never published. It wasn’t a total loss though. Doing it taught me a lot about how to write. You can never tell with these things.

            • Lady Squash

              Yeah, I am a better writer today than I was when I started my manuscript. I now write essays for a local magazine and I get paid for it and that’s nice. God, my manuscript needs a lot of work. And I thought it was a masterpiece. Such self-delusion.

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              My experience is similar. I don’t know how many drafts I did of that thing. I am sure that it has its moments but I am scared to return to it. I have thought of destroying it but it stays as a spiral bound volume on my bookshelf.

    • jazzlover

      Congratulations. I had a feeling that Cormac McCarthy posted here 😉

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        I am Kurt Vonnegut reincarnated as a slightly younger old coot.

        • jazzlover

          LOL. I’ll accept that you’re ANY real science fiction (or other genre) author 🙂

          Take a moment to enjoy your accomplishment, then get back to work 😉

    • Draco

      Congrats, Korgo. That is a major accomplishment!

    • Andrew Robertson

      Well done! Hope your novel sells well and you “smash your name into history so violently that it will take a legendary form even if all books are destroyed.”

      Andrew

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        Thanks for the hope, Andrew. I hear the common sale is two weeks at eye level, two weeks at knee level, then remaindered. I have worked up a power point presentation for graphic novels in general. It starts with the word “WHY?”. My answer is rarely fame, even at a comic convention. Rarely money. The answer for most is simply that the creator likes to write and draw. There is also the lottery ticket factor. A creator will probably make very little money but every once in a while things happen and the book does well in one or many ways. It just occurred to me that I have about as much chance of starting a religion with this as Hubbard did with Dianetics.

        • richelieu jr

          I have a friend who works at Dark Horse. She is an accomplished novelist, with several titles under her belt, and an admirable work ethic on top of her obvious passion and talent.

          And she still toils in the salt mines of the everyday world.

          • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

            Do you mean she has a day job? It is tough to make a go of it in the arts. I read “I. Asimov,” the Isaac Asimov autobiography. He didn’t quit his day job until he had about a hundred books in print.

    • Libertylover

      Congratulations, I was wondering if you went to the NYC Comicon this year, but probably not as you don’t have printed copies.
      I’m guessing you’re not American by the way you spell catalog.

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        I went two years ago. I loved it and I will almost certainly go again.

    • Elizabeth Lavet

      That is terrific – Thanks for sharing. So happy with you.

    • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

      How exciting, congrats to you! Graphic novels aren’t my thing, but I have immense respect for the talent and investment of self that goes into creating them. I hope this was a good experience for you, and that there’s more to come…

      • LongtimeLurker

        OT
        Hey girl. I saw you on over on that TMZ article the other day.

        • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

          Hey back! Yeah, I was tardy to the party, though. You and Eliza held the fort pretty well, and there were other reasonable folks chiming in, so that was good to see. I’ve been busy and distracted lately–and spending way too much time debating the US election with friends and other strangers–but I’m trying to jump back into the scientology discussions when I can. Because I obviously can’t get enough of topics that vex me and drive up my liquor bill. Hope you’re well!

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        So far so good. I have written four more. I don’t know if I will draw any more long stories. It is a huge time commitment. One of the four is called, From Moses to L.Ron, about growing up in a Jewish community then joining Scientology.

    • LongtimeLurker

      THIS IS PROVABLE BULL****!

      As someone who ran a comic shop for almost a decade I want to buy this for the pleasure of reading it AND to give you money.

      Now what am I supposed to do?

      • LongtimeLurker

        Oh…congratulations, I guess.

        pffft

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        I can’t think of a way around it. The sentiment means more to me than the money. Big thank you.

        • LongtimeLurker

          I’ve narrowed it down to a dozen or so.

          Is there some insanely obscure hint you can give me?

          No problem if not comfortable.

          I’ll cross my fingers for sales and awards.

          • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

            Hi, Longtime. I’ll put it this way. If you got that far you can probably look at the books that come out in early 2017 and narrow it down even more. I am also crossing my figures for money and recognition. Mostly, though, I have put together the best GN that I possibly could and I will be proud of it even if that is among a very small group of people. One favour. If you do figure it out please don’t announce it. If you do figure it out you can also find my email address. Send a note to that address to confirm.

            • LongtimeLurker

              You bet.

    • Sarcasmo

      ¡Felicidades!

    • LongtimeLurker

      I’ve got it!

      It’s the GN of Kindred.

      You’re famous, dead science fiction author Octavia Butler.

      http://www.previewsworld.com/Catalog/NOV160997

    • ScnMonkeyNuts
    • TheMirrorThetan

      Congrats, Korgo.
      I hope you got an expert proof reader.
      If not I have heard of this one guy…He comes highly recommended- by himself. 😀

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        I wish I knew who you were. I wonder if we met in Toronto a year and a half ago. Or, we may be cousins. One of my cousins is as good a proofreader as anyone could possibly find.

        My writing here is often done while I am being pulled in a dozed different directions. Even now there is a baby crying but, almost as though an OT intervened, she just stopped. I can hardly believe the mistakes I make. The book has been proofread by several different people as well as a good artist who has been telling me which of my drawings are just plain bad.

        • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

          I think Mirror might have been referring to marty mark.

        • TheMirrorThetan

          We have never met. I live in Oz and have never been overseas.
          Was just having a Ranty Mashbum joke.
          I wish you would drop a hint or three more about your graphic novel title.
          I haven’t read one before but I have been really tempted to buy The Walking Dead one as Iliked the show. The first few seasons I have seen anyway.

          • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

            Hi, Mirror Thetan. No, I understand that it is a Marty Rathbun joke but I don’t read his blog and don’t really understand why. That is OK. There is so much of this nonsense to keep up with no one can keep up with it all. The graphic novels I would most recommend are Maus by Art Spiegleman, Our Cancer Year by Harvey Pekar and Persepolis by by Marjane Satrapi. I haven’t read the Walking Dead myself but it is certainly popular.

            I put up another comment today about a movie about cults with a character named Ford Greene. I thought people would gravitate to that comment but not too many have. I have been bursting at the seems with pride about the book but saw it almost as a non item here. “No name blogger with no name publisher about to release no name book”. Thanks goodness for the Underground Bunker commentators.

            Maybe one day I will figure out a way to make the item known here. Actually, there is about as much chance of that happening as there is of the people here picking it up not knowing that it was created by me.

            Also, I don’t know if it will get distribution in Australia other than through Amazon. I will ask.

            • TheMirrorThetan

              Thanks for the recommendations. I see they all have a high rating on goodreads, especially Maus. I;m going to get that one first as the reviews were really good.
              I just saw your comment about Ticket to heaven and I have bookmarked that to watch later. Deprogrammers are a little creepy to me. I mean the ones that I have heard about that kidnapped and forceably held their subjects. Good luck again with your graphic novel. It sound like you have had lots of good help and support. It must have been harsh to be told some of your drawings were bad, though.

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              Hi, Mirror. I have chosen my critics wisely. When this person says something is bad he knows what he is talking about and it makes me a better artist. The criticism doesn’t hurt at all.

              My understanding is that deprogrammers came into the public consciousness through a man called, “Black Lightning” who forced the deprogramming on people. Today the few I have met call themselves “exit councillors” and are just very good at explaining to people how they have been had. The deprogramming stops whenever the person in the cult wants it to stop. Today, most of them are good people.

              Maus broke new ground. It is the holocaust story but also the story of a young man’s relationship with his father who was in the camps and a man who would probably not be easy to get along with anyway. It is used here in grade eleven to teach kids about the holocaust.

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      I’m very happy for you, Korgo 🙂 That deserves a celebration!

    • Qbird

      This is so cool. Bravo!

    • Observer

      Congratulations! May this be the first of many successes in the field.

    • Jenyfurrrrr

      Congrats MK! So exciting and I understand your keeping it on the DL – but just know that I wish I knew which one so I could buy it as a show of support. So here’s an online high 5 and I’ll just assume since YOU completed the book, it’s obviously kick ass and will surprise you with its success! Hugs!

    • SnowLeonard

      Congratulations on the book, Mighty Korgo! I just wanted to chime in and say that I too am a secret comic artist with a published book (that shall also remain here anonymous and unnamed). I wish you lots of success! [I have commented here before but lost my login details, so this is a new account.]

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        HOLY COW! One day we will meet. Soon I hope.

        • SnowLeonard

          If you’re in the UK (?) maybe we already have … I’ve been to countless comic shows in the UK, and several in Europe.

          • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

            Hi, SnowLeonard. I am a bit out of touch with modern marketing of these things. I just got a note from a dear friend telling me what is normally done. To put it Scientologically, I am suffering from overwhelm. It sounds as though selling the book which, naturally, is primarily a duty of the publisher, is going to be much more work for me than I want it to be. And while I am a very social animal I am not a natural salesman. I don’t look forward to this.

            I am a citizen of a Commonwealth nation, Canada.

            • SnowLeonard

              I’m with you – creating art and being a salesman very rarely go hand in hand! I’ve been lucky, my publishers have paid for my trips and all I had to do was turn up and sign and sketch in books. But they only do so much as far as marketing goes – you have to do a lot yourself as well, it’s true. I’m between books at the moment and enjoying the rest 🙂

      • LongtimeLurker

        WTF?!?!

        That’s it, I’m out.

    • daisy

      Oh Korgo, what a great accomplishment. i am so proud to know you and so many bright Bunkeroos. accomplishing so much, i am looking forward to the day when you can tell us your name and the books title. I hope it does well.

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        Thank you for your frequent kindnesses, Daisy. This is quite a site isn’t it. I look forward to this site daily, both the main body and the commentary.

    • FredEX2

      Congratulations Mighty Korgo! Much success to you too!

    • MrsLurksALot

      Such great news, thank you for sharing. Yay for you, enjoy this moment!

    • thetastic

      Congrats! That’s awesome! Now I have yet another reason to want this church to implode, then you can recommend a new graphic novel for me to read!

    • Jon Atack

      It is a wonderful book and such a shame that only OTs (and Dev-OTs) will have the power to know your true identity. However, there is a problem: as a noted SP, Ron did not actually complete the cycle of action that is the Bridge, so Korgo you will have to wait until he gets his ethics in (running around Arcturus, even as we speak!) which we estimate will take 27 trillion years. Then we will be able to work out what your book is called. Or you could look for the review by jon atack…

    • richelieu jr

      Were I lucky enough to guess, I would surely not out you, my friend (a consummation devoutly to be missed, per you)… I once got a bit to sure of my cleverness on another (closed) group on another subject, and let loose with a lightly fictionalized version of how I got fired from my first (and so far, only) Big Hollywood Break… unfortunately it only served to whet the thirst of dome pretty good amateur sleuths, and in a very short time they had a very good idea of pretty much everyone involved…. Ooops!

      Wouldn’t do it to you, but would certainly buy your book should I ever become privy to which one it is.

      Regardless, Félicitations! That is really great news, and I hope it helps you financially, personally and artistically, or that at least you enjoy it!

      Congrats!

  • Dave Reams

    Why haven’t others who have fled from the cult followed on the legal preceedent of the 1989 Wollersheim case where Scientology was found liable for “intentional and negligent infliction of emotional injury” ?

    https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Wollersheim_v._Church_of_Scientology

    • Tony Ortega

      Not everyone wants to fight with Scientology’s attorneys for 26 years in order to get a judgment that then mostly goes to the attorneys. But hey, give it a shot.

      • LongtimeLurker

        Okey doke.

        Just gonna go join up and get abused.

        brb

        • gtsix

          Get back here. You can’t leave this cult to join that cult. If it’s abuse you want, I’ll have my mother ring you shortly.

          • LongtimeLurker

            LOL.

            Sorry to hear about your mom, gtsix. ; )

            • gtsix

              Oh don’t be, she’s all words. Mean, spiteful, angry words. But she’s mom, so I call and listen to how awful a child I am. Then I ring my brothers and we chuckle about it all. Life’s funny like that.

      • 22 years against Scientology’s attorneys, 4 years to divide the settlement. I hate to think on which was worse.

      • Dave Reams

        I thought that a precedent would make things more straightforward. Silly me : )

        What about a class action lawsuit then? Oh wait, Scientology doesn’t have any class.

  • BosonStark

    Because of that case, and the cult’s preoccupation with spending millions on expansion in recent years, along with publishing their in-house magazines about donors attaining status by giving millions in contributions, they’re never going to be able to play the “we’re broke” shell game again in court cases.

    One thing that hasn’t changed — they will continue to draw out court cases they can’t win for as long as possible, as long as they aren’t drawing too much negative publicity. After the Debbie Cook case, they’re not only careful about suing ex-members but they haven’t sued Reitman, Wright, Gibney, Remini, Miscavige (Ron Sr.), Ortega or Theroux in spite of the flood of threats from their attorneys. The last thing Scientology needs is public interest in a court case involving Scientology at the level of the OJ Simpson case, showing how creepy, vindictive, deceptive and greedy they really are.

  • Robert Eckert

    McFly will write a new post about how all the members of the Wollersheim cult are fighting with each other.

    • jazzlover

      Took me but ,0025 seconds to get the McFly reference – and I still haven’t had any coffee. LOL

  • Elizabeth Lavet

    I wonder if the guy is going to tell the truth about LRH’s early life.

    • ze moo

      Why would any clam do that? You know that bronco busting and blood brothering and submarine hunting are going to feature the hagiography. And no one but clams will believe it.

      • Elizabeth Lavet

        Good thing they teach them to separate from their emotions, to say that with a straight face. Of course, like you say, THEY BELIEVE, really believe….big time with blinders on.

  • “…looked to us like there was mostly a misunderstanding based on the timing of the work that had been done over several years, and perhaps not everyone was aware of what everyone else had done in that long and complex case.”
    There is a fable about a number of blind men examining an elephant that comes to mind.

  • ze moo

    Dan Leipold, Craig Stein, Leta Schlosser and Ford Greene have earned the title of Super Suppressive Persons. Hell, every ex and everyone who has stood up and talked about their experiences are SSPs. I salute you from afar.

    I first heard of Larry Wollersheim’s case around 1996 and I followed it in the nascent internet. I found the ARS board and from time to time would check up on Larry’s case. I didn’t fall through the rabbit hole until later but as the clampire harassed more and more about the OT levels and other ‘secret’ stuff, I joined the Electronic Frontier Foundation. That organization is still working to guard and protect all from things that even $cientology hasn’t thought of.

    https://www.eff.org/

    The Greene team didn’t pierce the clams corporate, they totally deflated it. That info is still very useful for those suing the clam hydra today.

  • LongtimeLurker

    Re; Tom Reitze’s amazing presentation of LRH: The Early Years

    Why the heck do I even need to go to Seattle for this?

    If Tom’s so freakin’ OT VIII and Full Basics can’t he just beam his presentation directly into my brain?

    ps – that poster is gonna get the bejesus shooped out of it.

    • ze moo

      and bejesus will smile and laugh…..

  • Elizabeth Lavet

    What does it mean to “Secure ones route to CLEAR”? It sounds like it means the lady holding the sign paid for the classes and auditing ahead of time. My experience was that the things they said they were going to require from me as far as course work etc. changed rather arbitrarily based on the mood of the person and how much I questioned things. How can anyone know ahead of time how much time auditing it will take? Is this just another manipulative con job by The Church of Scientology to make the poor woman feel she has actually done something? Or does it mean she finished everything and is now deemed a CLEAR, until they want to take it away from her, she pisses them off, or she leaves, at which time she is suddenly no longer CLEAR but SP. I guess SP is generally for Sea Org. that leave, maybe public that speaks out. Public being allowed to leave at will, if they do it sneakily or just drift off.

    • LongtimeLurker

      She’s taken out a loan, been approved for new credit cards with the Church’s help, paid in advance and booked the sessions?

      • Elizabeth Lavet

        Thanks, that cleared up the dilemma between the two scenarios, done or undone. One more question, Is she guaranteed that will get her CLEAR or is this an arbitrary rah rah for her intent to go CLEAR and going into debt to put down a big chunk of money.

        • Kestrel

          Clear of a retirement nest egg, yes.

          • Elizabeth Lavet

            Hilarious! I think I asked a stupid question asking about the guarantee above. If their mouths are moving they are lying, there are no guarantees or truths in The Church of Scientology, is my experience and opinion. Anything they can do they will do to get more money, no holds barred. A guarantee would mean nothing if it was given, so who cares if they made that offer. It is really that bad. Poor Lady! in more ways than one. She looks a little concerned. Since there is not a real CLEAR, it is meaningless, it is all money down the drain anyway.

        • LongtimeLurker

          Elizabeth that was just a guess based on the very strange wording of her sign and stories that exes have told here, so I may be completely wrong.

          Regarding her going Clear, (once again based on ex’s experiences) that would depend on her Org, but they obviously have a vested interest in moving all Scientologists up the bridge to the next paid level. Although not too fast.

          But that doesn’t mean it won’t take more sessions than she has paid for.

          On the other hand there may be some other system I don’t know about where if you pay X in advance you get however much auditing it takes to go Clear.

          Exes, thoughts?

          • Draco

            “On the other hand there may be some other system I don’t know about where if you pay X in advance you get however much auditing it takes to go Clear.”
            No. Never. Your hours will get chewed up doing sec checks and other shit. The whole idea is to use your hours up as fast as possible so they can line you up to buy another batch. You get a “Tech estimate” which means the case supervisor estimates how many hours you need to do a certain thing. They ALWAYS underestimate, so that you can afford what they say you need. Once you have started on it, and then run out of hours, the pressure starts. I have never, ever heard of one single person getting through anything in the ‘tech estimate” amount of hours. Not EVER!

            • LongtimeLurker

              Right. I suspected that.

              Tech Estimate was the term I’d forgotten.

              Thanks doll.

  • Newiga

    Learn the facts about Ron’s youth? You mean the swashbuckling tales of adventure, courage and mischief or the story about spoiled little snot-nosed red-headed brat?

    • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

      Since they claim “facts…you have not heard before”, it must be the latter. Or they just made up some new sh!t, and now it’s suddenly “facts”.

      • Newiga

        OK, so they have made new shit up 😀 Do you think they’d let me in to hear it? 😀

        • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

          I’m pretty sure all the seats are taken… BWAHAHA! They’d be lucky to fill the front row XD Just say you are thinking of joining staff there, and they’ll give you VIP treatment.

          • Newiga

            They might not let me out in that case. xD

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              Just flash a copy of TUML, and they will show you out the door in no time.

    • chukicita

      Our high school band has a response for that: (EDIT: “Talkin’ out the side of your neck” if you aren’t familiar with it). Further edit… I am proud of these kids, they groove…and this song should be on every picket playlist, anyway.

      https://youtu.be/ZOP4JYR-Wtk

  • Racnad

    Speaking of thin dimes, what became of the Reverend Ken Hodan?

  • HTC

    The sketch of LRH fails to capture his Mr. Limpit like features

  • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

    “One thing I can tell you with certainty is that the Wollersheim case was won through a collective team effort. ”

    – Larry Wollersheim

    Ford Greene’s memory made Scientology lawyer Elliott Abelson stutter nervously on the phone when Elliott was reminding me of the details of my legal doc I signed when leaving the Sea Org, Elliott was warning me off, trying to, of asking for Ford Greene’s advise.

    LOL, Ford Greene scares Scientology and he’s always got my vote!

  • ScnMonkeyNuts
    • jazzlover
      • ScnMonkeyNuts

        Holy crap… that is a drum kit! Great track, thanks, jazz 🙂

        • jazzlover

          You’re welcome. I aim to please 🙂 I have a particular affinity to rhythm, which should explain my musical tastes entirely. The drummer has the power to ruin even the most beautiful of songs. Peart (the drummer) is a “self-taught scholar” whose lyrics are often quite profound.

          Here’s one of his votes for open-mindedness:

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-Wn6iYIeG8

          And……..THAT drumming!!!

    • Baby

      Good Work Monk! xo

      • ScnMonkeyNuts

        Thanks Baby 🙂 xo

    • ScnMonkeyNuts

      Pic edit (thanks, Lurker 🙂 )

      • LongtimeLurker

        Noice!

        • ScnMonkeyNuts

          Saw it and thought: “Damn… wish I’d done that!” … then surreptitiously purloined it while no-one was looking and pasted it onto my random word alterations!

          • LongtimeLurker

            Of course, mi shoops es su shoops. I wish it wasn’t 2am and I’d done a better job.
            : P

    • Draco

      Good improvements 🙂 What do they say? The truth shall set you free?

    • Jenyfurrrrr

      Lmao SMN! “Doors locked at…” Then the $10k to be let out. Doctored images was my favorite though!

    • Harpoona Frittata

      “And get regged to within an inch of your life…again! (caek provided for everyone who ups their status)”

  • Jimmy3

    I like to think I subconsciously contributed a great deal of psychic support.

    • Draco

      You like to THINK? You mean you don’t KNOW?

  • Lousy Ratatouille

    Scientology proverb: Dishonesty is the best policy.

  • Eeeewwww….F5

    “A jubilant cast of children celebrate the controversial religion in uplifting pageantry and song. The actual teachings of The Church of Scientology are explained and dissected against the candy-colored backdrop of a traditional nativity play. Pageant is a musical biography of the life of L. Ron Hubbard, with child-friendly explanations of Hubbard’s notion of the divided mind (embodied by the lovely identical twins Emma and Sophie Whitfield in matching brain outfits) and a device called the e-meter (or electropsychometer), used to monitor the human psyche, which is demonstrated by stick puppets. Grade school children, portraying Tom Cruise, Kirstie Alley, John Travolta, and other less starry Scientologists, brings the controversial Church of Scientology to jubilant life in story and song.”

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/54b163cc48258e9d9ab19ce0bff8bbed955447961fd1f8d6191307911148999f.jpg

    • Bobby Tolberto AKA TDA

      Samuel French means this is a performing version. I wonder how much the performing rights are? We are starting a children’s theater here, it would give the little(expletive deleted) something to do besides songs from Cats

    • Draco

      WTF is that???

      • LongtimeLurker

        …is the only sane reaction.

      • Bobby Tolberto AKA TDA

        The libretto, or performing version of the musical. Samuel French pretty much has the market cornered on librettos or plays in the US of A. Anyone who’s done community theater recognizes the name.

        • Draco

          Well, I hope they take the piss out of the “religion”.

          • Bobby Tolberto AKA TDA

            As it happens, I will be running for the board of our local community theater here, which is doing the Rocky Horror Picture Show currently, and is said to be doing very well. (I auditioned for it and didn’t make it. Sob!) If the price is right, it may be something that they could do with the kids. Did you know that Hindemith wrote a musical thingie for kids?

            http://imslp.org/wiki/Wir_Bauen_eine_Stadt_%28Hindemith,_Paul%29

            According to the Wiki, he called it a “Spiel fur Kinder” i.e., a kid’s opera.

            • Draco

              Nope. Sorry – theatre philistine here. 🙂

        • LongtimeLurker

          I think she meant “how does this play even exist?”

          • Bobby Tolberto AKA TDA

            That too. I’ve seen self-published murder myster dinner theater plays, but this is at the professional level. There must be some demand for it, because SF doesn’t publish crap, if you’ll pardon my French.

            • LongtimeLurker

              That’s terrifying.

            • It’s hilarious. You should see it.

            • LongtimeLurker

              I wrote that before I’d fully grasped that it was satire. I had assumed it was something slapped together in some far off Org during the 80s.

              I’m stupid.

              And yes, thank you, I will.

            • Little Xenu is adorable.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Just image searched. Even Ron is cute! With his ascot.

              Too good.

      • It’s gross…. lol. I could puke 🙂

        • It’s a very biting parody. One of the first subversive plays ever written about the cult. They’re on our side.

          • ehh?

            • It’s been around for years. It’s ironic and funny.

            • aha! … you must see something i don’t

      • Robert Eckert
    • MarcabExpat

      Just makin’ sure you know this is a satirical work, right? Not an actual Scientology production. Well you probably do, but for anybody else…

      • i had no idea… so why doesn’t it come over as a satire?

        • MarcabExpat

          It did come across as satire to me, but everybody’s mileage may vary. In any case, not to worry — this piece (which has gotten great reviews) leaves no viewer confused as to its real message, I promise 🙂

      • Graham

        Thanks. Poe’s Law was definitely kicking in for me!

        • My Gurd… another rabbit hole 🙂

      • LongtimeLurker

        It was initially unclear. I think both Draco and I had a kneejerk reaction of horror.

        • Draco

          Yup – in fact all 4 knees jerked in unison. Very unsettling for a dragon.

          • LongtimeLurker

            Dat funny!

        • MarcabExpat

          I think it would have been a little clearer if the poster had been bigger, so that it was easier to read the full title: “A Very Merry Unauthorized Children’s Scientology Pageant.” UNAUTHORIZED is a big red flag there, and “very merry” isn’t a likely phrase for Scilons to use in conjunction with a supposed Hubbard bioplay. The thing is made out to be a Scientology version of a Nativity play, which is of course resoundingly absurd.

          But additional clues are the repeated use of the word “controversial” (which of course they would never use to describe themselves) and the faint but purposeful snark of “actual teachings” and Kirstie Alley, John Travolta and less starry Scientologists.” That last bit is actually funny, which rules out the possibility of it being made by The Cherch.

          I can see how, if you hadn’t come across it before and weren’t expecting it, it would be easy to blink in amazement and just keep on blinking.

          ETA: and the other immediate clue is the font used in the poster headline. Space cult, anybody?

          • LongtimeLurker

            I slid over “unauthorized” somehow.

            I read “less starry” as some kind of inept Sherman-speak. Lol.

            I loooove that font. I remember it from back in the Letraset / transfer days. Wish I could remember the name…70-something?

            I’m normally more careful.

      • so this review is satire too?
        “CAN’T WAIT TO GIVE IT TO MY NEIGHBORS AS A GIFT FOR CHRISTMAS. THEY ARE SCIENTOLOGIST AND I HOPE THEY ENJOY IT. “

        • MarcabExpat

          Either that or somebody really does have Scientologist neighbors and is looking forward to the subversive act of leaving a copy in their mailbox, no doubt as retaliation for years of unwanted What Is Scientology DVDs, WTH pamphlets and other junk.

    • LongtimeLurker
      • Yeah! got it… it totally fooled me as “they” could have come up with stuff like this for realz

        • Kestrel

          Thank you for posting it anyway. I’d never heard of it and the wiki LongtimeLurker linked to was informative.

          • chukicita

            Kyle Jarrow, who wrote it, has done some other notable work.

        • LongtimeLurker

          Me too, me too.

        • Robert Eckert

          Poe’s Law in action. Some people are so close to self-parody at all times that parodying them becomes very difficult. I’ll be interested to see what Alec Baldwin can do after Trump’s performances this week.

  • nottrue
    • Draco

      Thanks!

  • LongtimeLurker

    OT
    (and may not make sense to non-Commonwealth citizens)

    Just started watching the first episode of the new QI season…

    WHERE THE FRAK IS STEPHEN FRY?!?

    • ScnMonkeyNuts

      I’m certain that memo was sent out…… could be stuck in the post 😉 …Having done half (A-M) of the potential seasons, he thought he’d do something different and Aunty Beeb got Sandi Toksvig to replace him.ETA: I thought Sandi did a good job, fwiw.

      • LongtimeLurker

        Thx. Man, I’m outta the loop.

        Apparently he’s working on a comedy for CBS.

        • ScnMonkeyNuts

          Ah–guess he saw what Hugh (Laurie) got working in the US and thought he deserved a decent paycheque, too!

      • LongtimeLurker

        Having finished the episode, I totally agree. She’s good.

        • ScnMonkeyNuts

          (PS I completely get the reaction at the beginning of the episode… I had it too, and I knew it was going to be Sandi Toksvig!)

          • LongtimeLurker

            Lol

    • jazzlover
    • jazzlover
      • LongtimeLurker

        Thank you. Amaze!
        He’s blushing. So British.
        lol

        • jazzlover

          You’re welcome! Seek her out – she’s so talented!

  • Lousy Ratatouille

    Scientology “Scripture”:
    “Scientology is infallible (like its founder and like its leader at the top) and its scripture is and remains “sacred”, even if it would cause the end of Scientology.
    Keep the money coming in, no matter how.
    The lawyers know all the legal tricks.”

    (With “every trick in the book” you never fully know what you’re in for, though:)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clWwWTlrZ_Q&index=1&list=LLalFrFxLOarw4pLrdxPdCkg

  • ze moo

    If you read or reread Tony’s Village Voice article you’ll hit the corporate runaround that attempts to hide all $cieno activities. That corporate veil is Miscavages’ Achilles heel. The 93 IRS agreement mandates checks and balances on DM, but none exist.

    Why no action IRS? Afraid of a few clams?

  • BosonStark

    In Seattle did they find any photos of Ron busting broncs when he was 3 years old, on a ranch which was a quarter of Montana? How about some pictures of his friend Xenu?

  • The 2015 Form 990EZ is in for Say No to Drugs Holiday Classic, Inc.

    Scientology’s 2015 in review: In March, HBO went Clear while we eavesdropped on Flag December 23, 2015, Tony Ortega, Underground Bunker

    The Form 990EZ (Thanks ERI Economic Research Institute!)

    $55,695 collected.
    $42,246 expenses.
    $1,500 donated to non-Scientologist charities.

    I have the feeling that they could have raised more for charities just by going door-to-door without the event, but then they wouldn’t generate any of that safe-pointing goodwill.

    http://tonyortega.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/MathersMinkoff.jpg

    • Hang on, isn’t Boy Scout Troop 313 the one that’s attached to their Applied Scholastic school, and maybe the Sea Org? In that case…

      $1,250 donated to non-Scientologist charities.

      • Boy Scout Troop 313, chartered to the Church of Scientology, Flag Service Organization. Yes, yes it is.

        Augustine: How Scientology makes it so hard to get your money back February 27, 2016, Tony Ortega, Underground Bunker

        • FredEX2

          Good catch RMycroft!

          The only entity Scientology gives their money to…is themselves…with a huge chunk going to pamper and spoil McSavage’s every whim.

          • I don’t think they diverted any money from this event, and while giving to their own scout troop is a bit iffy, it’s not over the line.

            But it’s plain that the real purpose of this event is good PR in Clearwater.

            • Jenyfurrrrr

              So they bought Girl Scout cookies and donated to their own troop! Now THAT’S digging deep into their pockets!

    • Draco

      “$55,695 collected.
      $42,246 expenses.
      $1,500 donated to non-Scientologist charities.”

      That’s what you call a fcuked up event. When your expenses are so high, you might as well have not bothered. 3 Girl Scouts could sell $1500 worth of cookies without raising a sweat. And it would only have cost people $1500, not $55,695.
      SMH

      • Susan black

        But this event is very important! How else can jim messkin get a couple of chicks to drive around with him in his shiny ride so others can look at him?

        • Draco

          He stimulates my gag reflex like very few others do.

          • Jenyfurrrrr

            Agreed! Every “creepy guy alert” hair on the back of my neck goes into high alert mode even seeing him in pics!!!

            • Draco

              Yup. Same.

      • grundoon

        98% overhead
        charities received 2%

        The Say No To Drugs Holiday Classic is not the best use of your charity dollar.

      • LongtimeLurker

        How did I miss that? Expenses of 75%? That’s insane.

        • FredEX2

          Wow. Such generosity from a billion dollar religious corporation. ( sarcasm ) McSavage’s meals and daily maintenance in one day costs more $$$ than what they donated to anyone in a year.

        • LongtimeLurker

          I swear, one day my head is just going to explode over their ongoing refusal to spellcheck.

          • Up the form, they misspelled “Sue Minkhoff”. How does that happen?

      • Press release for the 2012 event:
        http://news.cision.com/church-of-scientology-international/r/scientologists-sponsor-24th-annual–say-no-to-drugs–holiday-classic-race,c9357061

        Sponsors included Einstein Bagels, Costco, Cliff Bar, Auto Loop, WQYK radio, Power Bar, Consumer Energy Solutions, American Running Company, Sports Authority, Nationwide Title, Java Planet, Natures Food Patch, Postcard Mania, and Botanica Day Spa.

        Volunteers distributed the Truth About Drugs educational booklets to runners to use in educating others on the dangers inherent in illicit drug use.

        • Draco

          Ah well, that explains the high expenses – had to pay the Mother Church for all those ” free” truth about drugs booklets. Trust scn to make a buck out of a charity event.

          • I didn’t see any payment to CoS for anything in the 990EZ. It was mainly t-shirts, park rental, advertising, prizes and awards. I think try to keep CoS off of this directly, and don’t charge their own event for the booklets, so that they can claim that it’s not a Scientology event without bursting into flames, sort of, kind of.

            Still, it shows that those Truth About Drugs booklets are CoS materials, and if that’s the case, when Foundation for a Drug-Free World hands them out, they still belong to Scientology. (FDFW doesn’t file Form 990s for unknown reasons.)

  • stillgrace2

    “Learn facts about Ron’s youth you have not heard before.” Oh. the juicy irony of it all! It burns.

    • Observer

      “Learn ‘facts’ about Ron’s youth that COB made up, just like Ron did!”

    • grundoon

      I have a very bad masturbatory history. I was taught when I was 11 and, despite guilt, fear of insanity, etc. etc. I persisted. At a physical examination at a Y when I was about 13, the examiner and the people with him called me out of the line because my testicles hung low and cautioned me about what would happen if I kept on masturbating. This “discovery” was a bad shock to me. I had to be so silent about it that now when a bedspring squeaks I lose all libido.

      — L. Ron Hubbard, Admissions, 1946

      • To Hubbard, wherever he is:
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwYw1z1PBmA

      • stillgrace2

        Thank you so much for that little foray into what made young Ron tick … good reminder!
        I suppose jumping on the bed was not an option for his household spawn.

        • grundoon

          Jumping on the bed? Hell no. ISTR Quentin told Hole that the nanny kept Ron’s kids far from him in the Saint Hill days. They would only see him at dinner.

          On the Apollo, messengers would come to smite anyone who let a chair creak or a door slam while LRH was solo auditing in his “research” room.

          Only Ron could do solo hard TRs. Nobody else could pull Ron’s O/Ws. He would have to take the cans in one hand, go solo, and get it off in session. If he has a Long Fall, somebody’s gonna do lowers. When he called the “watch” messenger for an assist with high TA, they knew Source was about to release hot new tech. They hated when he missed the outbox. Least favorite order: “Take my silk cravat and wash it 13 times.”

      • FredEX2

        You can bet THAT won’t be something in LRH’s history to be brought up in the evening’s lecture on Oct. 29th at the Seattle Org by guest speaker and new OTVIII, ~Operation Snow White co-conspirator, Tom Reitz!

  • nottrue
    • LongtimeLurker

      The lesser of two evils probably-not-very-good films.

      • Robert Eckert

        The Madea films have gotten steadily less funny. Losing to one more installment of that dying franchise has to be a blow for Big Being 3.

        • ze moo

          We’ll see the final tally on Monday. If Medea beats Reacher, TC should be out of that franchise. Unless he is actually funding the whole thing. And he probably is.

        • LongtimeLurker

          Also worth bearing in mind…

          Boo! A Madea Halloween. Budget = $20 million

          Jack Reacher: Never Go Back. Budget = $60 million (conservatively, could be as high as 90)

          Meaning that Boo! will be in profit by next weekend.

          Whereas Jack Reacher

      • Draco

        I like Tyler Perry though. He seems like a good guy. So while I am not always a fan of his style, I say “Go Tyler, Go Tyler!”
        Tom can go suck eggs.

        • LongtimeLurker

          You’re right. I have issues with the Madea films, but yes, I agree.

  • Draco

    The lady who just secured her route to clear, doesn’t look as happy as she should look for achieving such a momentous thing! Could it be that she knows that this is not the end of “Route to my Wallet”?

    • LongtimeLurker

      Way To Broke-ness

      • Draco

        And Broken-ness. Poor thing.

    • Kestrel

      She has come to the realization that she will never again afford a professional cut-and-color and a mani/pedi.

    • Suzy

      She definitely has an air of “I know I’ve been duped but I have to smile for this photo or be sec-checked”

  • With deepest apologies to Messrs. Greene, Wollersheim and Atack—and none at all to Shortarse Miscavige… (remember Daddy Warbucks is away on business): https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2ee13100758cad8cea13f013c62cfd2cc6d763f232ce14b977b928b6a9b2ad16.jpg

    • LongtimeLurker

      Lurker’s body have strange feelings.

      Lurker not like!

      • Me pretty sure Lurker not have gender dysphoria—just wind.

    • Draco

      Haha! Jon Atack certainly carries his female body very well!

  • Mockingbird

    Good odd day Bunkeroos.

    Victory against Scientology in the court room is unfortunately very rare. It should be celebrated and noted when Scientology loses or especially gives in.

    I personally believe David Miscavige’s top priority involves keeping as many of the vital secrets of Scientology as possible. And they don’t have anything to do with BTs or exotic or esoteric auditing of incidents from hundreds of quadrillions of years ago.

    Instead of BTs and eternity Miscavige must hide felonies and treachery. Nibs famously said his father Ron Hubbard said the first rule is never get caught. THAT’S what drives Miscavige in my mind.

    He spends millions and millions of dollars and hundreds and hundreds of hours worrying and agonizing over what secrets will come out online and in the media. That is his Achilles heal. All his billions won’t save him if the right skeleton falls out of the closet.

    With Scientology defrauding and abusing and killing people for decades Miscavige can’t even know all the deaths, ruin and suffering it has caused which HE must hide.

    It’s been said that Miscavige used to every morning ask about EVERYTHING that was written about him online the night before. Even some senior executives and OSA operatives didn’t understand the situation. Miscavige isn’t worried about his reputation or losing whales even. He fights to retain their mountains of money, but has billions now. Those billions help him like Hubbard himself to keep a legion of fanatics and zealots to protect him from the unpleasant aspects of life, otherwise known as the abyss below.

    He wants to avoid Scientology failing to protect HIM personally from prosecution for crimes. That is it. He runs an international criminal conspiracy and fraudulent racket with thousands and thousands of victims and tries somehow to successfully avoid losing it and going to prison.

    He obsesses over the cases like Lisa McPherson that could destroy him. He paid Lawrence Wollersheim perhaps to avoid the curtain being pulled back on the legal fiction of Scientology organizations. They are all his puppets with a meaningless pile of alphabet soup abbreviations to hide his actions and especially his control over all of Scientology.

    He wants plausible deniability for very specific legal reasons. That is a weak point of his. Scientology is entirely under his control. That is a weak point. Scientology has defrauded people. Scientology has falsely promoted itself as a legitimate science with scientifically proven results and a Doctor Hubbard as the founder. That is the weakest of points for Scientology. Scientology has led people to ruin and even death hundreds of times over as part of its ongoing criminal conspiracy. That is a weak point.

    Miscavige knows about all of this. He knows the technology is fake and produces no powers or spiritual anything. He runs it like a conman running a con.

    He worries about people discussing his crimes and the many other crimes of Scientology. He worries about an anonymous commenter dropping a detailed account of a crime that can be verified that destroys Scientology. He worries about an ex Sea Org member dropping a detail about an account or Miscavige being somewhere on a certain day…or Miscavige running a program…or SOMETHING – ANYTHING that leads to enough dominoes falling that he and OSA and his army of lawyers can’t stop it.

    He has spent millions and millions of dollars to avoid the truth getting out. There are so many crimes in Scientology he can’t even keep track. He still has to hide them all if at all possible.

    That is why he wants critics to fight each other. That is why he wants Marty Rathbun to feud with hundreds of people. He wants us divided, confused and distracted.

    He never wants critics united, cooperative or telling everyone what they know. He never knows what cat will be let out of which bag.

    That is what matters to him. Saving his own skin.

    • Mymy88

      What Miscavige refuses to acknowledge, and if there’s a hell he will get there for this alone, is no amount of money is worth a child’s broken heart.

      • Mockingbird

        Well to be frank hell is far beyond my understanding. I do believe in evil and cruelty and Miscavige certainly has fulfilled those concepts to me.

        He places himself above thousands of victims of Scientology and children are certainly among them.

        • Mymy88

          Here’s something I’m sure you’ll understand, Mockingbird. This is my wish.

          I hope one day, some how, some way, MiscAssFace has to experience all the bad things he has inflicted to the many 1000’s of people, one victim at a time, himself.

          For example, Paulette Cooper… in the hell I can imagine, he will have to suffer everything she had to suffer and he will have to suffer the same amount of time that she did.

          So let’s see… many thousands of lives multiplied by an average of 50 years for each victim (for clarity’s sake), although I’m sure the number is much higher.

          That would be 50 years x (let’s just say 100,000 people as probably a very low estimate) would equal 5,000,000 years. In that estimated example, it would take five million years for karma to be truly be paid back to him. After that? I don’t know, but for right now, this thought pleases me.

          • Mockingbird

            Um…that’s a lot of bad karma. Not the most…compassionate fate imaginable.

            I will settle for David Miscavige getting sentenced to one year in prison for each person Scientology has harmed under his leadership. That will protect society for the rest of his life.

            I don’t try to return harm for harm personally. I think the stopping of evil and harm is important but don’t want hatred as a primary motivation.

            • Mymy88

              Yeah, okay sounds, good except put in there that he stays alive until all the time is served. I know he couldn’t stay alive that long but I wish he could.

            • Mockingbird

              Obviously he would live a normal lifespan. He would die in prison.

          • Mockingbird

            Sometimes accepting evil is not easy. That is a challenge we all face.

  • Lousy Ratatouille

    CSC broke? Whatever acronym, alphabet cracker broke? Scientology tries to get away with it (and seemingly almost succeeds … Grrr….. #!**&%#**).

    A Scientologist’s company broke?
    Not any IAS reg would stop at that, never! 24 hrs reg cycles to “find” more money! Now, now, now!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLWoiC-3b60

  • Len Zinberg

    I testified on behalf of Scientology in the Wollersheim case certain in my belief that he, like Paulette Cooper before him, were the worst of the worst; suppressive persons, enemies of humanity, of freedom itself – and deserving of Scientology’s “Fair Game” and “SP” doctrine.

    These (fanatical) beliefs are embedded within the larger, seemingly benign Scientology doctrine and obscure the true malevolence that defines Scientology at its core, and that has informed the bizarre and often criminal behavior of Scientologists for over a half century despite their hollow claims of reformation and protestations of innocence.

    These are the self-same beliefs that inform OSA behavior today – that sense of whole-track self-righteous “certainty” …that is, in retrospect and actuality, a deeply profound moral inversion.

    Robert Vaughn Young was hugely influential to my recovery when I first committed the “crime” of venturing onto the internet in the early ’90’s as was FactNet, Lawrence Wollersheim’s excellent site.
    Nowadays I’m largely sustained by the UB, Mike Rinders blog, ESMB, and more great commenters (and books) than I can possibly ever hope to read.

    • Jenyfurrrrr

      Len the fact that you give your recollections of where you were mentally at the time and have openly owned the situations in which you were involved is really powerful! Imagine those in OSA who may lurk now but think to themselves, “I can’t – a community like this would never accept me anyhow after all I’ve done to fight for CO$, so I’m stuck…”

      Beyond righting past wrongs the way you have by telling your story, it is for those lurkers now that your stories continue to be SO important! Plus I’m personally glad you’re here, as I do love hearing your memories and perspective on the older cases and such like this one! (*edited for spelling)

      • LongtimeLurker

        Jenyfurrrrr, your comment moved me as much as Len’s. Well said.

        • Jenyfurrrrr

          Thank you! I just remember how impactful the way he responded when Miss Lovely came out & then jumping right into the commenting community & I’ve always had a ton of respect for the courage that took!

      • daisy

        beautiful and generous comment

        • Jenyfurrrrr

          Thank you Daisy! Means a lot coming from you! (Your avi makes me smile every time I see it BTW)

    • Harpoona Frittata

      Very well said! May I ask how soon after you testified for the cherch in that case that the spell was broken and you fled the cult? Did your participation in that lawsuit heighten your level of cognitive dissonance and contribute significantly to your decision to get out?

      • Len Zinberg

        My self-extrication was positively glacial. The Time Magazine report, 5 or so years later did induce considerable cognitive dissonance; not so my testimony.

    • Captain MustSavage

      Hi Len, I’m always fascinated when you discuss your OSA experience. Do you think that there there is any way to engage people currently engaged in OSA activities that would help them see past the indoctrination?

      • Len Zinberg

        Jon Atack’s book, “Opening Minds: The Secret World of Manipulation, Undue Influence, and Brainwashing” discusses undoing the indoctrination. But the GO/OSA people have additional burdens and demons to contend with, and I wouldn’t presume to offer advice, other than to state that I believe overcoming them is difficult, but possible.

        • Captain MustSavage

          Thanks, Len, will check out Jons book.

  • 9001
    • LongtimeLurker

      Reitze was a Snow White conspirator?!?

      I didn’t realize any were still around.

      • 9001

        His name is mentioned in the paperwork but for some reason he wasn’t named as a conspirator. http://www.angelfire.com/pro/class12/fzs/snowwhite.htm
        He worked with Duke Snider and maybe some other (Arte Maren?) GO staff at David Morse and Associates for a while.

        • chukicita

          Arte Maren was in CW recently giving a seminar on how to empty your wallet or something. Funny how the GO were supposedly ‘rogues’ and everyone was told they were kicked out, but they never really left.

        • He’s president of DMA Claims Management, Inc. aka David Morse and Associates Claims Management, Inc.

          Category:David Morse and Associates

      • grundoon

        Most of them are still around – on lines, FSMing, on staff, OSA.

      • chukicita

        OH, yes. They are. High time to do another “Where are they now” episode. Many at David Morse, I think Dick Weigand was working for cult fronts in Colombia in the 90s.

      • FredEX2

        Wow. Perfect. Should make it into a flyer & pass out this invitation to THEIR neighbors.

        • LongtimeLurker

          Great idea!

        • Jenyfurrrrr

          Love this idea!

      • Jenyfurrrrr

        LL I did the same thing, then realized why his name sounded familiar! Oh how I WISH a SW Conspirator would speak out soon!

        • LongtimeLurker

          That would be too good!

  • FredEX2

    A little O/T but IMHO,…every time I see or hear religious words like ‘scripture’ and ‘faith’ etc. used in reference to anything Scientology, I get chapped. I find it extremely offensive and sacrilegious. There is NOTHING ‘sacred’ or ‘holy’ about Scientology whatsoever. NOTHING.

    IMHO, Using such words to describe ANYTHING about Scientology is ‘blasphemous’ ( How’s THAT for a religious word?!!! ). Scientology is about as ‘religious’ as any other big corporation,… like The Bank of China, Bershire Hathaway…or CostCo & Walmart. Imagine if THEY decided they were a ‘religion’ and found a way to obtain tax exempt status…( and these companies donate more to real charities and have real volunteers helping others at times…than Scientology has…EVER ). Imagine if any big business…required their employees to sign Billion year contracts and disconnect from any family member or friend who ever said a word that might be derogatory…about say,…Walmart…or Safeway…or Johnson&Johnson?!

    And what if you decided working at FredMeyers Store, or Dooney & Burkes or Macy’s wasn’t for you…so you quit and found another job you liked better…? You can be sure you wouldn’t be harassed, surveilled, threatened or have criminal ‘Fair Game’ tactics used against you…nor would others from these companies go to your neighbors with fliers claiming you are a pedophile or other such ugly and untrue crap to smear you in your community.

    It would sound just as stupid to call the writings in these other Corporation’s employee policy handbooks …’religious’ or ‘sacred’…or ecclesiastical as it does attributing those words to anything written or spoken in Scientology. IMHO Scientology is only a corporation bc it sells products for a gynormous profit. Faulty products at that. IMHO what they really are is an extremely malevolent criminal enterprise run by one of the most blatant flagrant Suppressive Persons and Anti-Socials on the entire planet who has far less scruples and ethics than anyone who ever lived. Even Lucifer shakes his head in disgust. I’m sick of these EVIL crazy sick scary lying creepy people. They are SO freaking weird to go after others who simply disagree with them. Such Thucking idiots!!! ( yes, I woke up this way today )

    To those still in…and those sitting on the fence…get a freaking COGNITION already! God almighty in Heaven above! And I’m not usually a woman who swears!!!

    Ok. I’m done. Just had to say that. ( Opinions brought to you from the Soapbox of FredEX2 ) 🤓

    • chukicita

      You’re right – it does sound stupid, because Scientology is really a business/MLM scam and not a religion. But I sometimes use ‘scripture’ to underscore the point that the directives guiding
      Scientology’s abusive actions have more weight to believers than, say, a store
      policy.

      • FredEX2

        Love you chukicita. 😘 My rant wasn’t meant for you or any Bunker members cos I know what is meant when using those words here. It just rubs me the wrong way whenever CoS uses religious verbiage in reference to anything attributed to themselves. Religion and any terms describing it as such is so utterly ridiculous. They’d do themselves a favor NOT to use such ‘ecclesiastical’ terms bc it simply makes them look worse and as if they’re trying too hard. NO one is buying it. Not even most who are ‘in’. The only thing worshipped in Scientology is LRH, McSavage and the almighty $$$.

        Sorry, I’m just full of spit & vinegar today about the whole thing. Going to go bake something and watch some good movie…or read a good book….or something…and be grateful I’m no longer ‘in’.

        • Draco

          Yay! Caek coming up folks!

        • I personally hate it when they use the word ‘philosophy’ to describe incoherent banality.

          Real philosophy is a fascinating study that can make you think (and understand more about) your place in the universe.

          Their ‘applied religious philosophy’ is nonsense that gives the real thing a bad name.

      • Mockingbird

        They fit what Robert Jay Lifton calls the Sacred Science. As a method of thought reform used by a cult the doctrine in Scientology is seen simultaneously as perfect logic and science AND so sacred and above human beings that doubting or questioning it is treated as sacrilege.

        It is two lies married together to prevent either from being seen.

        That is why you have scripture in Scientology. It’s a way loaded language protects fraud. It frames thought so the doctrine of Scientology is above mere mortals. Despite being written by a mortal.

        • chukicita

          I think Hubbard wanted to be immortal, and wanted his flock to pretend along with him.

          • FredEX2

            That they actually DO is the riddle of the century.

          • Mockingbird

            His pretend Godhood was always a scam. He NEVER for a moment used OT powers to deal with life, people or his enemies. He used conventional espionage and security measures. He used conventional fraud concealing measures. He never read minds or used telekinesis for assassination or clairvoyance for remote viewing. Because he knew those things just like everything else in Scientology were fake.

            He hid miney trails and defrauded whales. He hid ex wives and ruined lives. He hid fake clears and wasted years.

            You only hide crimes and failures you are aware of as crimes and failures. He knew he was a fraud and a liar, but tried so hard like a petulant and belligerent child to will reality into changing for him, but knew it NEVER did.

            Remember, you only hide crimes you know of and only avoid using OT powers you know don’t actually exist.

    • Mockingbird

      The word scripture is associated with holy writings above criticism of a scientific nature. That is what Hubbard wanted.

    • FredEX2

      Zoe completely agrees with me. This is her face when I say the words ‘Scientology is a religion’
      F5 https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/61c34a82471591564431f2791172f29c04c36b682448a7c9c44ec8a26610afab.jpg

      • Kestrel

        …and here I was, thinking I was the only one who hung pictures on the floor. 😉

        • Meme has small pictures down at the foot-panels and i have drawn imaginary mouse-holes with a black marker.

        • daisy

          LOL Me too.

      • i might try that one day…. she is a beauty!… Try say Lllllll RON HUBARD?

      • Draco

        She’s a beaut!

  • Lousy Ratatouille

    CoS’s take on lawsuits: The more legal hassles and black PR there’s out there on Scientology, the more they are “winning”:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5hmPwWldio

    • Harpoona Frittata

      Hilarious! “Settlement” as the “S” word 😉

  • LongtimeLurker

    Today in Irony Masterpiece Theatre; Kirstie Alley on Twitter

    “There’s just so much “crazy” I can take with a person (not talking about politics) I mean I just close the “crazy” door and don’t look back.”

    She also retweeted Mark Ruffalo providing information on what to do if you are a victim of voter intimidation or fraud.

    Ruffalo is very much not from the same side of the aisle as her.

    • Mymy88

      “Today in Irony Masterpiece Theatre; Kirstie Alley on Twitter”

      LAMO That should be the lead in any Kirstie tweets posted at the Bunker from here on out. Too dang funny!

      • LongtimeLurker

        ; )

    • Harpoona Frittata

      That’s 86,748,430 thin dimes!

  • PerpetualOutflow

    Really enjoyed Tony’s original article on the Wollersheim saga and the eventual shipping crate of thin dimes the clams had to pay him. Disappointed the judgement was reduced so dramatically on appeal after all he went through, leaving him with very little after all of the attorneys were paid.

    • Observer

      But he got a big chunk of it back in interest, so that’s something. And it was a humiliating slap in the face for Captain Miscavige.

      • PerpetualOutflow

        Without question–a huge, unprecedented and worthwhile victory. I just wish he could have personally benefited more from it to compensate him for the years of tremendous stress he endured.

  • Lousy Ratatouille

    At four years old LRH was made a blood brother of the Blackfeet Indian ……… or maybe the Seattle Org members should read a certain book by Russell Miller.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60ySHtsE-X8

    • Harpoona Frittata

      Then, much later in life, and only after he’d recovered his OaTy super power ability to be at cause over time, space and matter, did he go back in time to create the Blackfoot “Blood Brother” ceremony that never existed in his youth, thus revising history to make good on his word. Biff Tanner (Elron’s real silver screen alter ego) couldn’t have been more proud!

    • chukicita

      Or maybe they could, like I did years ago as a Native American History major, call Blackfeet Community College and ask the director of Blackfeet Studies. He confirmed that the whole concept of a blood brother ceremony is a Hollywood construct and there was never any such ritual among that people.

  • Qbird

    “Learn facts about Ron’s youth you have not heard before.” ….or seen, or touched or smelled…

    Fact: One day, while riding a busted bronc with his Blackfoot friends, Ron felt the call of nature.

    “See a unique presentation” ~ https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4060f9c9b21fc114e4de40f2181c83cdfd3cf88fcd6ac663be97aff68cba34bc.png

    WARNING!

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/51fd30454456af91807a6b88dd42f20ed67dc0cb2f09600c286fdd2e82fe24db.png

    • Observer

      O.o

      • Qbird

        big poop. BIG!

    • i’m eating!

      • Qbird

        : / sorry dice. Ron droppings are not to be viewed while eating.

        u kno this

        • my brain has stopped today… so tell me.. where in this is the joke?

          • Qbird

            Ron scat.

            • omg u right!

            • Qbird

              honestly Dice, this was just some sign left on the land by some neighbors of mine… pretty sure it’s wolf scat. Actual evidence of a large predator.
              A dollar bill is 6″ long. The photo was for ID.
              And Ron was one big shit.
              idk how it all came together in my mind… Ron ~ the early years.

            • Ron poo’s are rare! maybe with some luck… you could catch a Miscavige droppings with a $10 bill?

            • Qbird

              Does Miscavige poop in the woods?

            • Kestrel

              I suspect Captain David Miscavige has not been in personal contact with soil or a wild plant in many a decade, so, “No.”

            • Every time he visit Saint Hill, they have this problem!

          • LongtimeLurker

            psst, I was confuse also.

            But it’s 5am here, so…

            • Qbird

              Techie got it totally. I freely admit – it’s gross.

            • I will read it again tomorrow. I promise!

    • stillgrace2

      Oh my, Qbird. I may never eat again! ; ] BTW- Nice to see you! Of course, I’m talking about your avatar and general presence here, not the photo.

    • Jimmy3

      I like that someone was so impressed, they left a dollar. Ron pocketed it anyway.

    • Techie

      I guess I am the only one upvoting this Q. Only because it gave me the serious giggles. Seriously. But really, what in the world could be construed as “Facts about Ron’s youth that you have not heard before”? Every year Danny Sherman does the Hubbard Birthday speech about parts of Hubbard’s life. His youth has been covered with more detail than some of the Presidents. The whole L Ron Hubbard Life Exhibition in LA is full of intimate details about the youth of Hubbard. The Ron Series covers it in nauseating thoroughness. Then you can read Russell Miller’s biography to get some real facts. Or browse through the documents rescued by Gerry Armstrong. But they won’t cover any of that. At his birth place in Tilden Nebraska nobody has heard of him. Very puzzling.

    • everchangingmeezer (wogsy)

      That is the hairiest dung, I’ve ever seen .

      • Qbird

        yes yes, dark reddish brown.

  • Jimmy3

    Where were you when half the internet died, bot?

    • Observer

      Trying to play Destiny. >:-(

      • Jimmy3

        Actually Netflix was still working for me, so I got in a couple episodes of Narcos. Good show. I’m actually thinking of building a South American drug empire myself.

        • daisy

          For reference sake PUNTA is the word for every single bad word in that show. I prefer a variety but at least it is delivered differently most of the time. You can hide your money in my couch if I could * borrow* some. I only drink tequila in the morning, so get some good stuff that goes with coffee.

          • Kestrel

            Well, thank goodness they put the ‘N’ in there.

        • chukicita

          Do you ever watch Bloodline?

          • Jimmy3

            No. Should I be?

            • chukicita

              Just curious. I haven’t seen it but recently got Netflix and am trying to find time to watch it.

            • LongtimeLurker

              It got great reviews and (Australia’s own) Ben Mendelsohn* won the Emmy for best actor.

              Then it got cancelled.

              Don’t let an Australian actor put you off, it’s set in the US.

              *He’s the bad guy in the next Star Wars film.

            • Commodore H. McCringleberry

              They just put up a show called Glitch as a “Netflix Original” in the US. I got through the first episode while waiting for Black Mirror. Seems like its actually an Aussie show thats a year or two old and they just bought it. Neat premise, though the whole ‘mysterious resurrection’ theme has been done a few times over here lately. Also, if I hadn’t put up a couple of Australian rugby players years ago, a lot of the language would have sailed over my head. Not slang so much as just vernacular, like ‘pissed’ meaning drunk, not angry and such.

            • LongtimeLurker

              I know about Glitch but haven’t watched it.

              Sometimes Netflix actually co-funds overseas productions. But yeah, they mostly just buy stuff after it’s finished.

              And yes, if Australian writers want the possibility of a show or film having international legs, they have to be really careful with the use of vernacular.

              “Pissed”, like you said.
              “Thong” is footwear, not buttwear.
              The “C-bomb” as a term of endearment.
              The many different “mate”s.
              “Poor bastard” as a genuine expression of sympathy.

              Rugby players, eh? Do you play?

            • Commodore H. McCringleberry

              Played Rugby League with the Aussies for quite a few years. They tried to start Rugby League on the east coast, hoping it would get popular during the NFL off season. It did pretty well, but after a few years of playing, my shoulders, knees, and ankles aged about 40 years. Then I moved to TX and they just have Union, which isn’t fun if you’ve played League.

              We definitely had issues with the C-bomb. Hilarious issues. Every team was allowed to bring a certain number of guys in from overseas to help us get started and the various nationalities tended to stick together on one team. We had mostly Australians, and a Kiwi every once in awhile. When we’d play a team with Samoans or Tongans, it got bloody. Eventually we’d schedule around it

            • LongtimeLurker

              Rugby League is mental.

            • Commodore H. McCringleberry

              Best anger management solution in the world. When I was playing, I was impossible to annoy or piss off in almost any way. In fact, having a bad week makes you a better player when the weekend rolls around!

            • LongtimeLurker

              Ha!

            • Ella Raitch

              Glitch is great – based on a French film/show apparenty

            • chukicita

              There’s still the third season that hasn’t aired yet – although it’s only 10 episodes instead of 13. And perhaps it’s not a bad idea to have a story arc that actually wraps up.

              I’ve heard nice things about Ben Mendelsohn.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Oh, I didn’t realise there was still a season to go, I thought they’d been chopped off without warning.

              That’s good news. I’m gonna watch it now.

              He’s very good.

              I met him once, but it’s not a nice story.

            • chukicita

              He wasn’t nice? Aw. Someone who works on that show is close to my family. I had hea d he was patient and a decent guy.

            • LongtimeLurker

              No, no. He was fine. Smart as a whip.

              I was the problem.

              I’ll tell you some day.

            • Ella Raitch

              Awesome. Loooove Ben Mendelsohn. The Year My Voice Broke was one of my favourite films when it came out, and both Ben and Noah Taylor have had great careers – Noah even more so, possibly.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Noah is great.

            • daisy

              yes

        • Commodore H. McCringleberry

          Narcos is awesome. Also, the new season of Black Mirror just dropped on Friday. I binged it in one sitting. The Netflix version isn’t quite as good as the originals, but still one of the best shows out there.

          • Todd Tomorrow

            I binged watched Narcos and loved every minute of it.

    • LongtimeLurker

      I didn’t even know until I read about it later. What freakin’ obscure sites was I on?

      Is it okay now?

      And have they worked out who it was?

      • Jimmy3

        They were waiting for a suspect to show up on fringe comment boards pretending they have no knowledge of the attack….

  • Lousy Ratatouille

    One thin dime used to be enough for bliss.
    A Dime buys the Rumba:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTlt1ybrKic

    • Qbird

      Beautiful – we have had such a lovely long lazy warm Fall this year, RMycroft. )
      Most of my leaves are gone now.

      • After raking a few bags this morning, I’m starting to see them as leaves that’ll need to be raked later. It’s cool and windy enough to need a hat or suffer a slow ice cream headache. 🙂

        • downtherabbithole

          Love the fall and I am grateful for the home I have, but it being a heavily wooded lot is more than I want once the leaves drop! Raking thirty + lawn bags each year is getting really old. Enjoy you day.

          • noseinabk

            I use a blower and blow them into the tree line and the only reason I do that is because we still need to mow and piled up leaves will catch fire under the riding mower. Learned that the hard way.
            I would take the time to compost them if we didn’t have unusable black walnut trees mixed in but after mowing season I leave them be.

    • chukicita

      Wow! That is gorgeous. This is our color season, but it only lasts about half an hour:

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1506530cf8cf008d237c126e33477a2ee6bcdfc1b7d6afa808286951336e6577.jpg

      • Qbird

        ah! big laugh — what an amazing world we live in!

    • salin

      Gorgeous this fall we aren’t having much color. Leaves are going quickly from green to brown and down. Enjoying the vicarious glimpse of real fall color.

    • everchangingmeezer (wogsy)

      Soooooo pretty

    • noseinabk

      Beautiful. Last year everything blew away and fell before we got color. This year is looking better and I hope to get a few pics soon if the over abundant walnut trees don’t kill me as I walk around the yard.

  • daisy

    It is always nice when they wear a sign saying they are crazy, helps tell most of us who to avoid.

    • ze moo

      Truth in Advertising?

  • ze moo

    Clams live and die by engrams, right? I think I know why 47 is their favorite number. “Four score and 7 years ago….’

    http://www.rawstory.com/2016/10/trump-blasted-for-grievanceburg-address-threat-to-sue-all-the-women-accusing-him-of-assault/

    • should be 87x then ;p

      • Robert Eckert

        They must have had an M/U

        • ah, yes, excellent point! i didn’t notice any semicolons so my money is on it having been something in the “all men are created equal” part that threw them off.

  • Jimmy3

    Have a good one, Bunker Town. And let’s go Dodgers! No one wants little baby bears in their baseballing. That’s irresponsible.

    http://youtu.be/UctKYaPsIaM

  • Todd Tomorrow

    Expert Opinion
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOZkmsA9x0Y
    “Bridge based on brainwashing”

    • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

      Whatever the label, brainwashing or religious/spiritual indoctrination, it does those listed out things in the Robert Jay Lifton list of unduly influencing a person.

      Totalism is totalism, and Scientology fits totalism.

      Other groups/subjects foist totalism on humans too, and it’s protected first amendment totalism here in the USA, as long as it slips into the religion category of the first amendment.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Jay_Lifton#Totalism

    • Mockingbird

      Brilliant analysis by Rick Alan Ross. He is one never in that really gets it. I very, very rarely make that description regarding people that have never been in Scientology.

    • Mockingbird

      The amazing thing to me is the very, very tiny percentage of people that see extensive critical information on Scientology THEN decide to try Scientology for the first time ! That’s really weird and really rare.

  • nottrue
    • LongtimeLurker

      Why bother with the “professional” actors?

      The lady doth protest too much.

      (shit, almost typed the M word at the start of that second sentence)

      • chukicita

        To distinguish them from the Sea Org who were roped in to performance roles in all those ronawful training videos?

        • Techie

          Dave had to quit using Int Base crew as extras. Too many high profile blown actors in the films. For a while they were editing out faces like Laurel Sullivan in the shots where she appeared with Hubbard but it got to be too much. I think now they just use pro actors, but even that gets to be a problem. Larry Anderson and Jason Beghe for example.

    • Techie

      Oh well, they used to open the Int Base to the locals for a tour every Sunday. They are usually a polling place for the elections. And they sometimes rent out the Massacre Canyon Inn for parties and weddings etc. So it is not inconceivable that they could have public visitors. Things do get a bit tight and twisty around Gilman Hot Springs. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2f4660e92c1515107989cbed0a01bfcc8d5aab5f348e5dc20047d0b178cabb40.png

    • Techie

      Poking around in San Jacinto related sites, found this. Linda Greilich, wife of Golden Era Musician Russ Greilich and once in the musical Jesus Christ Superstar also a long time Gold staff member serves on the board of the Ramona Pageant. She is an accomplished vocalist. Paco Suarez, who was L Ron Hubbard’s valet at one time and in the Household Unit at the Int Base used to dance the Flamenco in the Ramona Pageant. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/467f881e3a4bb6e3a75ba3b2bb7afd23734abf3757c8c88502259f2cf0a2baec.png https://vimeo.com/154803900

    • grundoon

      Why Gilman Springs Road will close for a month
      By CRAIG SHULTZ / The Press-Enterprise / Oct. 21, 2016

      Starting Nov. 1, the next phase of safety improvements along Gilman Springs Road will close a portion of the thoroughfare used by thousands of drivers daily to come and go from San Jacinto.

      Officials estimate Gilman Springs will be closed between the 79/Sanderson Avenue and Soboba Road for about a one month. About 13,000 vehicles travel that section — a windy stretch that passes the Church of Scientology’s Golden Era Studios — each day, according to the Riverside County Transportation Department.

      Traffic coming south on the 79 through Lamb Canyon or southeast from the 60 via Gilman Springs will be detoured to Sanderson and then to the Ramona Expressway, where drivers can head east into San Jacinto. …

      Among the proposed improvements between Highway 79/Sanderson Avenue and Soboba Road:
      • Realignment of vertical and horizontal curves
      • Reconstruction of existing road
      • Widening and paving of shoulders
      • Installation of guardrail, asphalt concrete dike
      • Drainage improvements
      • Installation of edge line rumble strips and center line rumble strips

  • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

    RE: TOM REITZE

    I remember when Tom Reitze and his wife were in Guardian’s Office Flag. He was aloof untalkative but seeming to carry a large burden due to his GO job.

    Who he is “working” to counter in that Seattle area, it must be a mini zone of exited ex Scientologists who have given unflattering history of LRH that is spreading in that field, dwindling field of Scientologists.

    How to counter the history that ex members have been more candidly telling in recent years?

    Tom would have some interesting history to tell about what he witnessed at all the Guardian’s Office meetings there at Flag during those years when Clearwater was invaded when Scientology arrived there in 1975 onwards.

    Tom and his wife lived through that tumult.

    Wish Tom’d go on radio as an ex Flag Guardian’s Office staffer and answer up for that time.

    If I could teleport my brain cells to someone in the audience, I’d ask:

    “When you were in the Guardian’s Office Flag, back in the day, in the 1970s, did you know about Chuck Ohl’s work in Bureau 1 stuff against the mayor?”

    “Did you wonder if what LRH was ordering via Mary Sue, into the GO there at Clearwater was long range the wise approach to winning over Clearwater’s public support?”

    “When you left the GO Flag, or when you left the GO, was it on your own decision, or how’d those final days and weeks go, before you and your then wife quit or were forced out? Was it voluntary greatest good for Scientology to bite the bullet even though you both weren’t personally involved? ”

    “Did you regret your turn to being in the GO and would you have liked to not have been in the GO?”

    “Ever do duty directly for Mary Sue?”

    “What’d you think of Tony Ortega’s coverage of the Paulette Cooper ordeal she suffered at the GO’s hand? Do you have any regrets for what the GO did in those days?”

    “Can you go exterior at will and travel as a pure soul in the physical universe separate from you body? What can you do that is supernatural, in terms of pure soul power abilities now that you are OT 8?”

    • chukicita

      “Did you ever really leave the GO, or did you just morph with the name change to OSA?”

    • Chee Chalker

      One more question:

      ‘Why don’t you take on the James Randi Million Dollar challenge to prove your OT powers? What better dissemination could there be? You could then donate the million dollar prize to others so that can go up the bridge and also have OT powers!’

      • 9001

        Hi Chee. Since Randi retired the James Randi Foundation is no longer accepting applications for the Million Dollar challenge. http://web.randi.org/the-million-dollar-challenge.html

        • Chee Chalker

          Oh rats…..well they had about 30 years to claim it

          Someone did claim it a couple years ago (wink wink…..don’t want to ruin anything)

          It’s a little long but enjoyable!

          I love Randi and knew he was getting on in age. I’m glad he retired and is hopefully enjoying his free time.

          He is absolutely one of my favorite people. I would watch him read the phone book

      • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

        anyone, any OT 8. In fact, someone ought to stand outside with that question on their protest sign!

        “IAS being robbed by slacker OT 8 completions who FAIL to even submit for the Randi Million Dollar Prize”

        “Send OT 8s to Ethics for not supporting IAS with their winnings from the Randi Million Dollar Prize!”

        “OT 8s are Technical Downgrades! All are failing the Randi Million Dollar Prize!”

        • Techie

          Well, if they are not willing to publicly own up to their “OT Powerz” at least they could use them to win a bundle in Vegas. Nobody who is “cause over matter” should ever be penniless! Just bet on the red and “influence” the ball to fall in the red a little more often. Or maybe they could skip the middle-man and just “mock up” some gold bars. No need to scam the pharmaceutical industry or do motivational speaking! Something tells me they can’t get rich quick the Hubbard way or more of them would. Maybe it is just because OT 9 through 15 are still not released, the “true OT levels”. Or maybe it is all horse pucky in the first place.

          • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

            Yea, none of these OT 8s pass the Las Vegas test do they?

            Otherwise us ex members could get security jobs at casinos spotting and rooting out the OT 8s there for IAS! LOL

            Maybe this could be a spoof movie idea!

            Brian Rubinick: Las Vegas Casino Anti-OT Bouncer

            Or better, have a “My Scientology Movie: Visit Qual in Las Vegas!”

            To pass OT 8, the Qualifications Sec Freewinds sets up near the roulette tables and checks out OT 8s who can win big, and if they do, they get their OT 8 Certs.

            Make promo of this, and use that for future Scientology promo.

            Miscavige ought to just run a casino training seminar on the Freewinds soon!

            • Noesis

              “…none of these OT 8s pass the Las Vegas test do they?…”

              One only hears about such…when they “win.”

              Sort of like the “wins” one hears about in the Orgs….that’s the only communication allowed about the outcomes of Scientology services.

              Anything not a “win” is either labeled (ultimately) as some sort of ethics problem…or if bad enough…is completely hidden from view.

            • grundoon

              “To pass OT 8, the Qualifications Sec Freewinds sets up near the roulette
              tables and checks out OT 8s who can win big, and if they do, they get
              their OT 8 Certs.”

              Brilliant!!

            • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

              Yea, there ought to be an “RTC Rep Caesar’s Palce”, “RTC Rep Tropicana”, etc, and that person stand over the Qual Sec, with a video of the game, to ensure the OT 8 does a “video pass” of their rigging the roulette game. AND the IAS Reg Caesar’s Palace is there to collect a suitable donation out of the winnings, the IAS Reg waits near the cashier’s area to collect the IAS cut.

              You’d expect the IAS to be all over Las Vegas, in fact, at all of the Cashier’s areas of all the Casinos to collect from the winning OT Scientologists who are using their super powers to win money off Las Vegas.

        • LongtimeLurker

          Fantastic chuck.

          Screen-capped for awesomeness.

      • LongtimeLurker

        Who are you? That’s genius Chee.

        Come on OTs, show that SP wog Randi, and the world, what Scientology is all about.

      • Harpoona Frittata

        Even without the prize, just one single empirically validated instance of true OaTy supper powerz – such as scooting a gum wrapper along a flat surface for six inches or so – would capture the interest of a massive number of scientists from around the world and, if replicated, boom $cn like never before. Given how great a good on every dynamic that would be, the fact that no one has ever been able to demonstrate any of the super powers that they’ve attested to having achieved must give every critical thinker pause to consider the possibility that no one ever will be able to demonstrate them.

        As someone who parted company with the faux science of $camatology over three decades ago and who has studied science ever since, I’m always willing to look at whatever claim that folks might make, but as Carl Sagan famously put it: “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence”. Yet in all the decades that $cn has been around, no objective evidence for its very extraordinary claims has been been advanced.

        • Chee Chalker

          Nicely said!

  • Ah, Larry. I was at the “Not One Thin Dime” rally in downtown L.A. I still have the “thin dime” they were handing out that day (hey, it’s silver). One of the goofiest $cientology rallies ever, with Tony Hitchman taking the mike and exhorting the Founding Fathers of America in the audience (he assumed they were reincarnated and $cientologists) to step forward and quash this gigantic threat to liberty. I remember Larry’s first wife from CC on 8th St., his second wife Angie Vash, the time he recruited about 100 Navajos in Phoenix who all showed up to be Sea Org members (again on 8th St.) then split when they realized it was worse than the rez, how Larry and other staff got jobs selling meat door to door for $cientologist Brian Tully to pay off debts, and a ton more stories. Wollersheim was a circus all unto himself. I’m glad he hung in there and made the bastards pay. Hope he never starts his own cult like it looked he was planning to do.

    • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

      Wasn’t that “starting one’s own religion and becoming a minister of that religion” just a blatant uniquely US constitutional legally protected mimicking of Hubbard and Scientology?

      It’s sadly just one of the oddities of the USA constitution’s ramifications.

      A legally protected living out one of those American freedoms, and a slap at Scientology and Hubbard, making the point that Scientology’s first amendment religion legalism is NO BETTER than even Larry’s or Dennis’ choices to start up a religion and be a minister of it!

      Kind of just an off color protest and making that point.

      Also, to get an audience to one’s protest of Scientology/Hubbard, there’s a bit of even searching out to find an appreciative audience to one’s protesting views! I never took anyone’s splinter ex member sub Scientology religion or a whole new religion effort as bad or as nasty as Scientology’s worst acted out nastiness.

      None of the Scientology squirrel groups have been as messed up as Hubbard’s package show, has it?

      • I don’t know about that last line. Ever heard of The Forum? EST? Lifespring? Even Eckanakar might’ve sprung out of Dianetics, I believe. Larry was kind of a con artist when I knew him, usually congenial, so I got an even bigger kick out of him winning his battle – he out-conned the con artists. But if he starts his own thing, steer a wide swath.

        • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

          Yes, there is a bit of history with gurus shedding later similar gurus, that’s widespread human history.

          Monkey see monkey do.

          Guru see guru do.

          Con man see con man do.

    • Graham

      “he recruited about 100 Navajos in Phoenix who all showed up to be Sea Org members (again on 8th St.) then split when they realized it was worse than the rez”

      Reminds me of something the Bhagwan cult did back in the ’80s:

      “Rajneeshees had chartered buses in cities coast to coast, filling them with homeless people, mostly men. They said hauling them to Rancho Rajneesh was a humanitarian initiative. Those lured to the buses were promised food, beer and rest. In truth, this was the second prong of the election scheme. As the homeless rolled onto the ranch, they were obliged to register to vote. They were expected to vote the party ticket, as it were, when it came time to pick the new county commissioners……..

      ETA [quite relevant to the story!] But Rajneeshees quickly discovered many of the homeless had serious mental problems. A remote ranch founded on love and freedom was no place for an unruly mob. Fights broke out. To regain control, Rajneeshees injected the tranquilizer Haldol into beer kegs used to serve the homeless.

      ….. Soon, scores of homeless [were leaving the ranch]. At first, they got bus tickets to return to their home cities. The Rajneeshees soon stopped that. Instead, they ferried the homeless to small towns around the commune and left them. Streets in towns such as Madras filled with penniless people far from home.”

      https://culteducation.com/group/1108-osho-rajneesh/17617-rajneeshee-leaders-take-revenge-on-the-dalles-with-poison-homeless.html

      • Good lord! The bullshit that flies of out fake gurus asses is seemingly endless. The crazy thing about Sea Org recruiter Larry Wollersheim’s stunt was that Yvonne Jentzsch announced that Larry had recruited 50 people in Phoenix, woohoo! (I know I said more earlier but I was thinking about the capacity of the bus.) Then the looks on those poor people’s face when they saw the place. I have no idea how they all got home, and not a damned one of them stayed for “the duration.” (Although it seemed like one female stayed a few days). That kind of crap was normal around CC in those days. Another time, Celebrity Centre was saved when Hector Carmona, the top registrar, coaxed $25,000 out of Bill Keeler, the chief of the Cherokee nation and the head of their oil company (he ran Phillips 66 at one time, I believe). It was before Thursday at 2:00 and we were down to zero bucks, or pretty close.

      • Harpoona Frittata

        Shhhh, don’t give lil davey the savage any ideas on what to do with all those aging and increasingly infirm Sea Orgy members that are still around. About the only reason he has booted their low-stat butts out already is the embarrassment and bad PR that having a bunch of old homeless ex-$cilons out trolling the mean streets of L.A. for chump change with “Will audit for food” signs would cause.

        When I was working in the mental health field during its lowest ebb of government funding in California, one of the many scandals that sprang up then occurred when a number of large municipalities began buying indigent and chronically mentally ill folks one-way bus tickets to far flung locales in order to decrease the demand for non-existent services. We all began cynically calling it “bus therapy” and it’s just the kind of socipathic evil trick that $cn would heartily endorse, the scumbags!

        • Noesis

          “…buying indigent and chronically mentally ill folks one-way bus tickets to far flung locales in order to decrease the demand…”

          This behavior has many decades of history and is (part of) the explanation for why the Venice Beach area in So Cal has such a bizarre combination of wealthy and desitiute folks living in close proximity to each other. Venice was used for many years as a preferred dumping ground by other localities seeking to “solve” their own neighborhood’s undesirable people problems

      • LongtimeLurker

        They didn’t realise some of the homeless might have issues?

        They thought they were just choosing homelessness?

        Wait, don’t answer that.

        • Graham

          They didn’t care. They were just seeing these people as ‘coins’ [to use a Scientology term]; tokens who each represented one more vote to take over the local council. The other strand of their strategy was to poison as many of the town electorate as possible so they couldn’t get out to vote. I believe this is in the record books as the largest biological attack ever on US soil. All for the greatest good of course!

        • Homeless are not homeless! They just have a big living-room.

      • Observer

        And to this day there are people who fiercely defend Rajneesh, asserting that he was just an innocent who naively trusted his lieutenant, the deceitful, scheming Ma Anand Sheela (I think that was her name), who shamefully abused that trust. Yeah, just like Lafayette didn’t know anything about Operation Freakout or the Snow White Program because the deceitful, scheming Mary Sue abused his trust. 🙄

        • Graham

          Right at the end of his life he changed his name to Osho. Googling Osho will lead to what’s still left of the movement.

    • Harpoona Frittata

      Write that book, Skip! What we really need is a light-hearted send up of all those whacky characters and episodes that make $cn’s history one of dark comedy, in addition to all the very real tragedy and true “heart of darkness” evil. Laughing uproariously at the insane antics of thin-skinned evil clowns, like lil davey the savage and Trumpf, is the exact counter-balance we need here!

      I can just picture the absolute culture shock that must have ensued when 100 Navajos showed up to join the Sea Orgy and then turned around and departed en masse. Sounds like they’d heard that Big White Father in the Sky crap once already and weren’t going to fall for it again…praise Xenu!

    • LongtimeLurker

      “…Tony Hitchman taking the mike and exhorting the Founding Fathers of America in the audience …”

      What? No. What?

      What? Come on. No.

      What?

      • Draco

        Aaah… the good ol’ days … when people said shit like that in public!

        • LongtimeLurker

          I guess he gets credit for really believing tho’ otherwise he might have stopped to think “what if they don’t stand up?”

          smh

      • Techie

        Come on LL. You remember Tony Hichman, the guy that did the interview with Hubbard that became the “Introduction to Scientology” film? He was from your hemisphere after all (well, South Africa in 1966 maybe you missed each other in the hallways). He used to hang around at Gold for a while, working on later films that never went anywhere. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKPZurJ4U_U https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/11aff872636e5b9edc2a2c7086be00baf1591e3d9c14448e7827dedf3ebb8731.png

        • Also, Tony was tied up with Reed Slatkin, and when Reed got caught for his crimes, Tony got going – to South Africa, I heard – and I’ve not heard anything about him again. Class 8 field auditor and his blonde wife Peggy was babealicious.

        • LongtimeLurker

          Oh s***, that guy! Thanks Techie.

          Accidentally scrolled to around the 12 minute mark in that video, where Ron is doing his “…psychiatry is terrible, since the day in yes, 1879 I think it was when they decided all men are just animals…” routine. Complete with pained expression and hand on brow.

          What a disingenuous (badly researched) weaselly bastard.

          • Techie

            Yeah, for some reason he was obsessed with Wilhelm Wundt and 1879. Why that one and none of the hundreds of others that were doing research around then? But it comes up in dozens of lectures and essays.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Cause he only read one book on it? Hard to know isn’t it.

        • Captain MustSavage

          Aah, so the interviewer is a scientologist, that makes sense now. I’ve always wondered about this exchange (starting around 16:40) and why he didn’t ask Lafayette a follow up question:

          TH: Did i understand you to say that a persons IQ can be raised through Scientology?

          LRH: Oh yes, yes. This is the one thing that Scientology has upset the worlds universities with. They used to say that IQ never never changed. Nobody could ever change, nobody could ever be any different than anybody ever was. And this was quite interesting because ah when we finally demonstrated this with their own IQ tests, why they became very very upset and began to test much more widely and they tested people before Scientology processing and after scientology processing and uniformly found that their IQ had raised.

          TH: Who’s they?

          LRH: (eyes flick down and away, head moves back – he doesn’t expect this question) Ah the professors, the fields, the schools of philosophy, schools of psychology and so on.

          I always want him to ask Ronnie to specify WHICH professors, WHICH schools of psychology. It’s obvious from both the relative brevity and extreme vagueness of L Ron’s response that what he’d just said was total bullshit. This is why I can never comprehend why so many people can listen to him and still buy his crap.

          • LongtimeLurker

            Did you watch the whole thing Captain?

            Did you see his histrionic overacting at the 12 minute mark when talking about psychology?

            What a shifty mongrel.

            • Captain MustSavage

              Yep, saw it. Had a thought while watching that bit actually. He talks about the etymology of the word Scientology and I thought, he’s modelled the name of his lame self help group on psychology. Like everything else it’s a ripoff that he’s tweaked. It’s clear that L Ron has done some very basic reading in psychology, possibly as little as just one text. But like his understanding of nuclear physics, his comprehension of psychology is school boyish.

            • LongtimeLurker

              He abolutely did some reading on it, I agree. And only partly understood it. And then ripped it off.

              That’s one of the things that makes the whole “anti psych” thing so offensive.

              Ron would have us believe that he conceived the word Scientology “from the Latin scio which means “knowing, in the fullest meaning of the word” and the Greek…” blah, blah.

              That’s from the Scientology website.

              BUT…but…there was a 1934 book called “Scientologie” by Dr. Anastasius Nordenholz.

              It includes charts of grades and states of awareness.

              That aside, even if he was aware of that book, he would have been more aware that Scientology sounded a lot like the then-booming Psychology, so I agree with you.

            • Captain MustSavage

              To quote my favorite scifi character – fascinating. I’ve never heard of that book. Where did you hear about it and is it googleable?

              ETA: and yes, the anti psych thing is a pure territorial dispute. A one sided dispute. Psychology is too busy advancing actual knowledge with actual research at actual named universities with actual named professors to think about a scifi cult in any way other than as potential subject matter.

            • LongtimeLurker

              http://www.lermanet.com/sources.htm

              I’ve never tried to google it.

              Will do now.

            • LongtimeLurker

              I agree with all your actuals.

              You’re so right about the one-sided thing.

              In one of the Scientology TV documentaries they asked some representatives from the American Psychiatric Association about it, and they were all “really? They don’t like us? Nope, never heard that. How come?”

              It was pretty lol.

            • Captain MustSavage

              Yeah, those dudes must have been pretty low branches on the galaxy wide psych world domination conspiracy tree.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Cannon fodder, probably.

      • Hey, in $cientology you don’t have to make crazy shit up – it’s there for you every day. I admit that was one of the nuttiest things I ever heard from a $cientology stage, though.

        • LongtimeLurker

          It’s right up there, right?

  • There is a poster above of Tom Reitze being sent to Seattle as Guest speaker next Saturday.
    Tom Reitze was a Guardian Office guy in the intelligence are “B-1” (Bureau One)
    He knew and participated in the length and breath of the black bag operations.
    When the Guardian office was disbanded Miscavige referred to them as “GO CRIMS” (Guardian office Criminals~~ distancing himself and the cherch from ” a few rogues”)
    This especially was in referral to the Intelligence Division of the Guardian Office.
    When I departed the Sea org, I had a hefty “Free loader Bill” and no money but good credit. Still stuck in the tunnel with no intention to speak out, like a “good little Scientologist” I paid the cult for my 20 years of slavery ! High high 5 figures.
    I sold Tom Reitze some Hubbard collectibles and especially whose with a lot of handwriting on the Sci Fi books. We had pleasant encounters. Tom can be very affable and engaging.
    The fact is he was hard core Guardian office for some 20 years in the most clandestine secretive dirty tricks Fair Game area.
    Tom Reitze, Henning Heldt, Chuck Ohl and Duke Snyder, all privy to the length and breath of Snow White Operation and Paulette Cooper Fair Game, all work together (last 20 years or so) at David Morse and Associates in Glendale.
    No longer “GO crims” they donate to the Cult generously ~~ AND They are now “OT 8s”

    • Draco

      I am sure those ” GO Crims” created quite a problem for Hubbard and DM. They had to distance the church from them, call them criminals, but still keep them on-side. After all, these guys knew all the dirty little secrets that could have created all sorts of hell for Hubbard. They were thrown under the bus, but kept loyal – that’s quite a trick. But I suppose if they did all sorts of illegal shit in B1, that maybe weren’t exposed in the raids, the crims had as much to lose as Hubbard did. The whole thing is sickening.

    • Captain MustSavage

      Hi Karen, your recollections are gold. I’m always surprised when I hear that scientologist’s have paid the ridiculous and morally reprehensible “freeloader” debt. Why do people pay it?

      • LongtimeLurker

        Wait a minute…I’m not Karen…

        I’m nosy, but at least I waited an hour for an actual good reply from Karen.

        To avoid being declared SP. Is my guess.

        And I know many exes thought it was actually legally enforceable in the Wog World (Wog World is the best amusement park, imho), and of course the Church wants them to think that.

        http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?6939-Freeloader-Debt

        • Captain MustSavage

          Shit, sorry, thought I was responding to Kaz.

          • LongtimeLurker

            No, no, you did.

            I was mocking myself for nosily replying to a thread I wasn’t even involved in.

            soz.

            • Captain MustSavage

              No drama here. I’m good with anyone responding to me

      • Yes, when I look back at my foolishness…paying THEM for the privilege of having slaved all those years…I realize how far gone I was. But it does give me more understanding for those deeply in the spiritual black hole who will not budge and hang on no matter what. I was there.

        • daisy

          Thank you for all the people you have both taught , listened too , and helped. You are one of my heroes.

  • Draco

    Oooh! Bye everyone. Jason Beghe on my TV 😀

    • LongtimeLurker

      You go, girl.

      • SarahDB

        Is that a judge’s wig lurker?

        • LongtimeLurker

          For today’s article Lurker am Judishimical, Sarah!

          Obstruction disdained!

          Quiet on the court! Match Point!

          • SarahDB

            Do judges down undah’ (as we say in Bahwston) wear them like in the U.K.? Seems quaint to this Yank.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Not as much as they used to. Formal occasions and Federal Court criminal proceedings I think.

              But our lawyers (or barristers) do – Queen’s Counsel or Senior Counsel wear black gowns, and wigs

            • SarahDB

              Yah honah, I’d like to be a friend to the couaht. Are you approachable? 😉

            • LongtimeLurker

              My apologies for my tardy reply my deah. I been running all over hell’s half acre.

              I reckon so. It’s been said this court is as friendly as a Texas Smile.

  • Noesis

    As an aside (sort of)…Scientology’s attempt at fraudulent conveyance of assets out of the corporate entity (CSC) to which the Wollersheim judgement was attached is the sort of sleazy maneuvering one typically sees used by malevolent firms that have been found liable for widespread negligent (or worse) behavior, including events involving known environmental hazards and their effects on workers.

    There are particular “badges of fraud” that are usually apparent in such maneuverings and many of them were in fact present in the manner in which Scientology leadership sought to avoid responsibility for the harm done by their organizational minions. One of the badges is the debtor retaining control of the assets that have been moved from one entity to another. (That’s among the reasons the Sea Org was formed…to exert organizational control while seemingly not even existing.)

    This is yet another legal situation where the final outcome was predicated on establishing a new operational construct that was able to continue the many frauds of Scientology and it’s leadership, while walking away from the consequences of the old fraudulent operations.

    This is still going on decades later…part of it is called “GAT II.”

    Included are the many absurd contracts and waivers one must now sign in order to “avail oneself” of the astonishing benefits (that were never claimed) from receiving Scientology services.

    It’s the kind of protean fraud that is the hallmark of racketeers.

    Uncle RICO is not amused. Lol.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/306932b03dc269415b279ed8ecb54e40ac99a4d2c651fae7e4fc7b9697a70f56.jpg

    • Techie

      Wish uncle RICO would get his shotgun out of the gun rack and go after a few high flying birds. How is the “Sea Org Reserves” fund not a criminal slush fund? Like the Cosa Nostra and the Mafia, the Sea Org is not officially registered as a corporation. Yet it has millions in a fund that it can use as it pleases? Or did that get rolled into some part of CST or something? It definitely existed in the 80s, funds were used to buy all kinds of facilities and equipment for Golden Era Productions out of it. Dave was always chiding us that we owed millions to SOR. Whatever they call it nowadays there is definitely a pool of money that Dave can use whenever he feels the urge. And it is not just the IAS “war chest”. I don’t know how all the Freewinds based offshore accounts and hanky panky works but there must be a whole lot of sub rosa shady deals going on. How else could Dave go around buying real estate all over the world? Always cash on the barrel-head?

      • Noesis

        “How else could Dave go around”…(insert atrocity here?)

        How indeed.

        It’s almost like he’s a politician or something.

        Lol.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    Before such blatant fraud
    It’s natural to be awed
    A parcel of lies
    Lisa who dies
    And justice by evil is clawed

    They said “Not one thin dime”
    But they did do the crime
    DM being depraved
    He ranted and raved
    Afraid he’d have to do time

    Unraveling the crooked threads
    Woven by most crooked heads
    A very clever team
    Unmasked DM’s scheme
    Now it’s time to call the Feds

    Is $cientology a full-con tact sport?
    Seems like members suffer from a lot of con cussions.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a040be954d1e39eb04cffec89ec48e84d0f5244556ccb011b7eea3a55569a8c8.jpg

    • Observer

      A full con-tacky bloodsport

  • Lousy Ratatouille

    Here’s a link to the music score of My Scientology Movie. I hope it works.
    http://wavetheoryrecords.com/soundtrack/louis-theroux-my-scientology-movie/

  • Mockingbird

    OT story. I ran across an article that reminded me of the Sarge special E meter. WARNING this should not be tried at home, or anywhere else !

    Zapping your brain with electricity can make you more creative ?

    http://bigthink.com/paul-ratner/zapping-your-brain-with-electricity-can-make-you-more-creative?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#link_time=1476822477

    • I’ve been thinking about that Sarge meter.

      On the one hand, it was supposed to deliver a strong but non-lethal shock to a 70+ year-old who’d had at least one stroke, (A tricky business indeed!)

      On the other hand, when Hubbard returned it, it was “all burned up”.

      I can’t imagine something designed to do the first that would do the second. I wonder if Hubbard plugged the can wires into a (off) wall socket, stood back and flipped on the light switch. More theater?

      • Kestrel

        Maybe Sarge rigged it to overheat or short while it provided just a small, quick jolt of extra current.

        • Sarge never mentioned a self-destruct, and adding extra functions to the tricky job of giving him a bad jolt without stopping his heart or popping his brain would increase the chances of something going wrong.

          Maybe Hubbard tried it, or maybe he changed his mind, or maybe it was all theater from the start, but I don’t think the “burned up” part was from the shock circuit.

        • LongtimeLurker

          Can you believe this is a discussion in the real world, and not some badly-written Outer Limits episode?

      • Mockingbird

        A truly bizarre story with lots of twists and turns. Your idea is as possible as any involving this story. It’s confusing because it relies on the logic and behavior of Ron Hubbard as he was at the end of his life. Hard to understand.

    • there is no WiFi – forget it!

  • Mockingbird

    OT has anyone who was a Southern Scientologist actually said “I do declare, you are a suppressive person !” (run from a bad pun)

    • Draco

      Why, Mr Mockingbird. I can’t imagine what you might mean by that!

      Flutters eyelashes…

    • Kestrel

      If so, it might have gone something like this: ‘Way-ull, ah dew de-clayuh, you are a suppressive person. Bless your heart.”

      • Mockingbird

        Yes. Then they disconnect from you.

    • LongtimeLurker
      • Mockingbird

        I hope you approved !

        • LongtimeLurker

          Yeah, it’s great!

    • Sid (Phil Jones)

      Y’all SPs are just gone contrary is all an no danjuh to anyone.

      • Mockingbird

        I will assume that is also Southern.

      • chukicita

        Y’all are giving me the vapors.

    • April

      I don’t think the phrase, “I do declare!” has been uttered on any regular basis in the South since at least 100 years ago. Source: I’m an 11th generation Southerner.

      • LongtimeLurker

        Look out y’all, there’s fixin’ to be a yellowjacket in the outhouse!

      • Mockingbird

        How do I know it ? Somehow I picture people in the deep South using it !

        • April

          Well, shut my mouth then! 😀

    • Mymy88

      LOL Mockingbird. Yeah, but it was a really good bad pun!

      • Mockingbird

        Thanks. I knew it could entertain someone.

    • chukicita

      Bless your heart.

      • LongtimeLurker

        snigger

        I see what you did there.

      • Mockingbird

        I try sometimes.

  • It is the best of times. It is the worst of times. All the time.
    (Donald Rump desecrated Gettysburg today)
    At a time of extreme challenge in my “pitiful life” (as George Patton, of all people, put it in his eulogy to his father), I am honored to have been invited to an event tonight https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/eb5526314075bfb9886c43b9488d8d50ca79ee55347d8f32882829ea234a27e0.jpg that will prove to be magical. (f5, if necessary, for details).
    (Favorite New Yorker cartoon…..Dickens’ editor to Dickens…..”Now was it the best of times, or was it the worst of times? It could hardly have been both.”)
    (I see the image may be sideways….no time to flip…..I’m late…..for a very important date)

  • Liberated

    The Cubs are on……..Go Cubs Go!!!

    • Supper Powers

      Yes!!! Go Cubbies!

  • LongtimeLurker

    Daisy girl, whatchoo doin’ goin’ back through 3 day old articles?

    • Kestrel

      Sometimes chili tastes even better on the third day? Hoping to resurrect an old thread?

      • LongtimeLurker

        She was throwin’ around a few upvotes.

        Maybe just catchin’ up on reading.

        Chili does taste better, tho’

        • Kestrel

          Daisy never updates my stale, old comments. Just some of the fresh ones. Someday I, too, will be a member of the A Team.

          • daisy

            Not sure what stale old comments you are referring too., but i will take better notice. Full disclosure LL often says such off the wall silliness he often makes me giggle . Chili and most pastas taste better because the tastes mix in . I make lasagna for the day after.

            • Kestrel

              I was trying to be funny.

            • daisy

              I know you were, i was unsuccessfully trying back.

            • everchangingmeezer (wogsy)

              Lasagna my favorite….yum yum yum…

            • LongtimeLurker

              Now it looks like I was bragging.

            • daisy

              Na it makes me a drunk who will laugh at everything. In fact that is the first line of my resume

            • LongtimeLurker

              Yeah, put the vital details up front!

            • Missionary Kid

              Chinese food also tastes better. It doesn’t necessarily look better, but the taste is better.

          • LongtimeLurker

            The A-Team? You flatter me.

        • everchangingmeezer (wogsy)

          Chili with nacho cheese and chips …nom nom nom. I must be hungry😋

    • daisy

      it is taking awhile and a large amount of drinking. Sure i drank with the computer down but now it serves a purpose.

      • Liberated

        That’s my girl!

  • Gib

    da Cubs

  • Supper Powers

    3-0.

    • Liberated

      This is so great!

      • LongtimeLurker

        Is your team throwing lots of goals across the home wicket in this sportsball game?

        • Liberated

          Uh, you could say that.

          • LongtimeLurker

            That’s nice.

            I’m actually very manly (no really), I just don’t do sports watching.

            But go Cubs!

            • Liberated

              I just saw John Cusack in the stands. He’s a huge Cubs fan.

              Excuse me sir, but is your avatar giving me the finger?

            • Supper Powers

              Was he biting his fingernails?!?

            • LongtimeLurker

              No, sorry, I should have realized it would like like that on tablets.

              I’m actually holding up my index finger to remonstrate with one of the lawyers.

            • Liberated

              I’m on an iPad, don’t be sorry, I thought it was funny.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Strangely, I knew that about Cusack.

            • jazzlover

              Where’s Bill Murray?

            • Liberated

              I know he’s there, but haven’t seen him yet.

            • jazzlover

              Usually, they end up showing him about a few dozens times at each Cubs home playoff game. LOL

            • Liberated

              I know, it’s early.

            • jazzlover

              He must be at the concession stand 🙂

              Years ago, when I was a teen, me and a friend and his sis were walking around NYC kinda aimlessly. We spotted Bill Murray and my friend’s sister literally freaked out and started running towards him (she was a HUGE fan). Bill took one look at her, and started running in the opposite direction. LOL

            • LongtimeLurker
  • Kestrel

    4-0

  • Supper Powers

    Hendricks’ calm and control is impressive.

    • LongtimeLurker

      That’s what she said.

      …I just want to participate, really…

      • jazzlover

        You guys in Oz need some baseball 🙂

        • Liberated

          Ok, I have to ask, mets or yankees?

          • jazzlover

            Never Yankees 🙂 Evil Empire! My dad grew up a Brooklyn Dodgers fan. Since the Mets replaced the Dodgers and Giants for NL baseball in NY, they were the obvious choice for him, then me. While I was growing up, my mom was a closet Yankees fan. She took one for the team, so to speak. Loved Joe D. and Mickey Mantle.

            • Missionary Kid

              I hated Mick when I was young, and a Brooklyn Dodgers fan, but now I have a lot of respect for him, and Joe, and Yogi, who, people forget, was a great field general and one hell of a player.

              I still consider the Yanks to be the evil empire.

            • jazzlover

              It’s the Steinbrenners, I tell ya. In the 70s, there was a cartoonist who worked for the Daily News (Bill Gallo) that used to mercilessly torture George on an almost daily basis with pictures like this: https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/9b1db772778689f22791b5fbd3b7e2cb51b1f8b0b38fba868d9c8f2c3bcbffb5.jpg

            • Missionary Kid

              George Steinbrenner had the arrogance of Trump. Yogi was smarter, but Georgie had the money.

            • jazzlover

              That cartoon was in reference to what caused their long feud. I think George fired Yogi about 8 games into his tenure as manager, if I remember correctly. Yogi wouldn’t speak to him or show up for Yankee events for years. Fwiw, Gallo’s use of the Kaiser helmet was fitting and hysterical 🙂

          • everchangingmeezer (wogsy)

            Giants. Always giants

            • jazzlover

              They were ours first, ya know…………..The Say Hey Kid will always be NY 🙂

            • everchangingmeezer (wogsy)

              Never. Owned by SF since 1958.

            • jazzlover

              LOL. Which I’m guessing was pre-Wogsy. (fwiw, I was born after they left too)

            • everchangingmeezer (wogsy)

              25 years pre-Wogsy 🙂

            • jazzlover

              Yikes. You’re like, 12 😉

            • everchangingmeezer (wogsy)

              You must be 50. 😉

            • jazzlover

              Plus 😉

            • everchangingmeezer (wogsy)

              Hey, being 50 plus has its perks. I can’t wait to be 50!!!!!

            • jazzlover

              Yeah? Name one 🙂

            • everchangingmeezer (wogsy)

              You develop the case of “I don’t gives a fux”, and that’s awesome 🙂

            • jazzlover

              roflmao. I already had that in my 40s 😉

            • everchangingmeezer (wogsy)

              Oh darn, then by Scientology’s standard that’s like 47x billion “I don’t gives a fux” and that’s even MORE awesome, lol. Go big or go 4’13. That should be everyone’s motto.

            • jazzlover

              You funny 🙂 I’m like a cat. I’ve survived ‘hell and back’ so many times that it’s hard to give a fuck at this point 😉

            • Missionary Kid

              He started out with the Giants when they were still in New York, and went with them when they moved to San Francisco, where he played the majority of his career.

            • everchangingmeezer (wogsy)

              He ended as a SF Giants player. He’s a SF Giant. 🙂

            • Missionary Kid

              Interestingly enough, the great Vin Scully (Dodgers announcer who just retired after 67 years) had his favorite player in the booth with him on his last day: Willie Mays.

            • Kestrel

              The greatest baseball broadcaster I ever heard.

            • Missionary Kid

              I happened to be listening to Vin Scully when Juan Marichal went after John Roseboro with a baseball bat. http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/13463881/juan-marichal-hit-john-roseboro-bat-ugly-baseball-brawl-50-years-ago Willie Mays prevented a riot from breaking out. The next time that Mays came to bat in a game in L.A., he got a standing ovation from the Dodger fans.

              Vin handled the whole thing very well. IIRC, what he said was, “I want all you little leaguers out there to know that this never happens”. He was always mindful of his audience, and was cool, calm, and classy. We were privileged to have him for all those years. He was never a “homer” (calling games as if the home team could do no wrong). He always had plenty of stories and background about the players.

              We’ll miss Vinnie, like we miss Chick Hearn, who coined a lot of phrases that have become part of the language, like “No harm, no foul.” Vin wasn’t as flashy, but he held everyone’s interest. He really didn’t need a “color” man to add to the story.

        • LongtimeLurker

          It wouldn’t do me no good. I’m the least sports-loving straight man on the continent.

          Having said that, I’d rather watch baseball than cricket.

          You couldn’t pay me to watch cricket.

          • Liberated

            No matter….you are loved.

          • Liberated

            I always thought people considered cricket a kind of joke.

            • LongtimeLurker

              I ****ing do. A joke without a punchline. I find it slow and obscure.

              But, it has many fans.

          • jazzlover

            Can I interest you in hockey? (my fave sport)

            • everchangingmeezer (wogsy)

              Go LA Kings!!!

            • jazzlover

              Your bastids beat my team in 2014. Grrrrrrrrrrrr.

            • LongtimeLurker

              I’d definitely prefer something fast-paced like that, but really I just can’t sit for that long watching other people do sport.

              I’m missing some gland.

        • What’sup

          Baseball is quite popular in Australia. I represented my state at a few national carnivals and even in an Australian side though we only played one game against a Tawainese company team. One of my oldest friends, who lives here in Perth, is the Asia Pacific scout for the Detroit Tigers

          • jazzlover

            I did not know that. Being a scout for a major league team is pretty impressive. It’s amazing how baseball has turned into such an international sport. The chances for Americans to make it are now pretty low, given that we have very few pockets of year round good weather areas here. Basically, all the good college baseball programs exist in Florida, Arizona and California. And that’s about it. It seems like most Major Leaguers are Latin American these days. They play the sport year round. Also, the percentage of African Americans who play professionally has decreased drastically. There’s more money and opportunities in basketball, and even football.

            • Kestrel

              …and Texas.

            • jazzlover

              Yes, you’re right. How could I forget Texas? 🙂 Texas, Florida and California are also major hotbeds for football.

            • ReallyMGM

              Have you ever heard of the craziness of the SEC? LOL

            • What’sup

              My friend the scout played AAA ball in the US but couldn’t quite crack the big show. I lost interest because surfing and skating.

            • jazzlover

              It’s tough. One bad injury and the dream is over.

            • jazzlover
            • ReallyMGM

              On the last sentence, I have read somewhere the decrease of African Americans in baseball could be due to the lack of inner city summer baseball leagues. Most of the summer programs in the metro area I’m closest to (one of top 5 most deadly in US) keep the kids indoors from gunfire. So the kids play basketball…lots and lots of basketball. Thus the city is a hotbed of collegiate basketball recruits.

  • LongtimeLurker

    With all this sportsball speak and chilli chat and Southern slang, I feel like we’re losing sight of what matters.

    Which is…how terrible Ron was at his chosen professions.

    Battlesuck Earth: a Blahblah of the Year 3000

    Part I–Chapter 9

    He zoomed up the side embankment of the road and yanked back the throttles and pawed the brakes. The car slammed to earth in a geysering puff of dust, square in the center of the highway. It was a pretty jolting stop but not bad, not bad. He’d get better at it.

    He picked up his face mask and tank and donned them. Then he hit the decompression button so the tanks would recontain the breathe-gas without waste. There was a momentary vacuum, a trifle uncomfortable on the hearing bones, and then with a sigh, the outside air entered the cab.

    The wind felt cool outside the borders of his face mask.

    He gazed around with some distaste. This sure was wide country. And empty. The only sound was the whisper of wind in the grass. And the sound of silence, vast silence. Even a far-off bird call made the silence heavier.

    The earth was tan and brown. The grass and occasional shrubs were green. The sky was an expansive blue, specked with white puffs of clouds. A strange country. People on home planet wouldn’t believe it. No purple anywhere.

    With a sudden inspiration Terl reached down into the car and grabbed the picto-recorder. He aimed it in a sweeping circle, letting it grind away. He’d send his folks a spool of this. Then they’d believe him when he said it was one horns-awful of a planet and maybe sympathize with him.
    .
    .
    .
    Fair use, OSA, fair use.

    • Liberated

      Fuck Elron, Cubs just hit another homer.

      • salin

        Have to admit I no longer follow much sports, but for years had a soft spot for the Cubs. Agree with the priorities in your post.

        • Liberated

          I know what you mean, I quit all sports for maybe 8-10 yrs, or so, but once a Cubs fan, well. This will be so great to say “the Cubs are in the World Series” instead of wait til next year.

          • salin

            A historic shift, indeed. Enjoy!

      • Missionary Kid

        As I’ve said before, I normally root for the Dodgers, but my sentimental favorite is the Cubbies.

        3 more innings. Go Cubbies. You earned it.

      • Supper Powers

        This is one of the fastest games I’ve ever watched.

    • daisy

      And they couldn*t make a decent movie of this masterpeice. ??

      We are kindred souls when it comes to sports. Never played em , Nobody wanted me to play em. and have several boyfriends who assured me that they could teach me what i was watching. No luck.

      • LongtimeLurker

        I can play some stuff okay (although I’m probably terribly unfit now). But watching…nope.

        2 of my exes were into various sports.

        It was hell.

        • Missionary Kid

          If a person is consumed by anything, a relationship can be hell for the other person.

          • LongtimeLurker

            I’m saying it was bad, but obviously there’s much worse things that couples do to each other.

            But yes, I agree.

    • Observer
      • LongtimeLurker

        Breathe-gas. Picto-recorder. You just add a spacey sounding word to a normal word. That’s how you Sci-Fi !

        I’m taking a break to have a moisture-shower.

        Then I’m gonna eat some nutrient-noodles.

        Later I’ll come back to this electro-comment-venue.

    • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

      I remember first reading Battlefield Earth at nights, after the routine staff training job at Flag when I was a course supervisor, reading 20-30 minutes a night. Helped falling asleep, but I was scouring it for hints of Hubbard’s Scientology principles, and there were only a few. When Jonny was going unconscious in the scene of the crashing his jet (Terl had allowed Jonny to graduate up to flying the jets to the gold mining site, those sites being radioactive and the puny earthlings were dispensable and Jonny had proven a clever puny earthling helpful to Terl’s greedy gold mining mind), and on Jonny’s way into unconsciousness he applied Hubbard’s “confusion and the stable datum” principle consciously before blacking out, but a safe plane landing otherwise the story would have been over had he died.

      Just as well, the whole thing was bedtime reading to me, as a Sea Orger. I don’t think either of my ex Sea Org wives bothered to read it, not their cup of tea. Hubbard’s required staff writings were blather enough for them to suffer reading.

      For those Sea Orgers who didn’t read Battlefield Earth, the silent knowledge that it was NOT required reading, they appreciated.

      • sizzle8

        You were a polygamist? 🙂

        • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

          1st 12 yrs then 2nd for 12 yrs. It’s a strange communal life, work all day, a year by year breakdown of my Sea Orger spousal scheduling would be interesting to do some comparisons. The Int Base people and couples in the 2000s onward had hellish sleep deprived lives. My married years were late 1970s, the 1980s and up to 1995, we had pretty okay sleep time allowed in those years.

      • LongtimeLurker

        Interesting that he only dropped one Scientology element in there.

        That feels more to me like he needed inspiration for a narrative element, and so he reused something. As opposed to him trying to slip Scientology elements in as “propaganda”.

        Otherwise there’d be more than that lone example in the novel, I think.

        • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

          In a way I think he knew the drawbacks of making it a “Scientology” teachings novel. Other tiny hints of Scientology are the Brown Limper Staffor character who Hubbard drapes with a few SP characteristics and mentality.

  • Kestrel

    Hawaii 5-0

    • jazzlover

      LOL

  • salin

    Reminder to click the recommend by sharing a ‘space opera’ in the sky – a phenomena of nature – rather than an induced memory. From Reykjavik, Iceland.

    on edit – oops missed the link http://spaceweathergallery.com/indiv_upload.php?upload_id=130180&PHPSESSID=nuklv39tf6s4o1a1pah923h967

  • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

    http://www.villagevoice.com/news/scientologys-crushing-defeat-6391541

    Thankyou again Tony Ortega for the above link to your all time great article, it gives well deserved high praise and credit to the late Robert Vaughn Young and has great quotes from the Wollersheim lawyer Dan Leipold (now deceased too).

    http://www.villagevoice.com/news/the-top-25-people-crippling-scientology-no-23-ken-dandar-6722641
    scroll down to see Dan Leipold in this article

    Your articles and this blog is mind blowing in countering all of the Scientology and Hubbard massive outpouring of details with correct reporting on the history details Scientology would like to forget.

  • In order to avoid paying Court Judgement on Larry Wollersheim, the Cult made Church of Scientology of California )The then “mother chuch” transfer out all its funds and vanish into thin air. Church of Scientology “International” was the replacement corporate entity.

    A very knowledgeable *INSIDER* told the story. His ID “Probity”

    Requiem, Church of Scientology of California, 1954–2004

    Post by probity » Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:34 am

    Requiem for the Church of Scientology of California, 1954 – 2004

    J. Swift wrote:What was the fate of CSC?Church of Scientology of California, 1954 – 2004


    The Church of Scientology of California (CSC) forms on 02/18/1954 to
    accept and adopt the aims, purposes, principles and creed of The Mother
    Church, “THE CHURCH OF AMERICAN SCIENCE”, of Camden, New Jersey. On
    01/02/1957 the Internal Revenue Service exempts CSC from tax.


    The IRS revokes CSC tax-exempt status in 1967 for financial
    irregularities. CSC refuses to file for-profit income tax returns,
    instead CPA Greenberg prepares Form 990 returns (as if exempt) for years
    1970 – 1972. On 03/28/1978 CSC files suit against the IRS in US Tax
    Court to challenge the IRS determination of tax deficiency based on
    filed CSC exempt returns for 1970 – 1972.

    • New California
    corporations are formed to assimilate CSC authority in a reorganization
    attempt to sidestep mounting legal and tax threats: Church of
    Scientology International (CSI) 11/18/1981, Religious Technology Center
    (RTC) 01/01/1982, and Church of Spiritual Technology (CST) 05/28/1982.


    The Church of Scientology Flag Service Organization, Inc. (FSO)
    incorporates in Florida 05/19/1981. FSO takes over from CSC the Flag
    Land Base (Mecca of Scientology Gross Income) and severs CSC’s income
    source. In the UK, CSC assets are transferred to the Church of
    Scientology Religious Education College Incorporated (Australia).
    Bridge Publications 02/02/1981 (later Galaxy Press) perpetuate CSC
    financial fiction that LRH fiction income funds LRH research.


    After six years litigation the tax case between CSC and the IRS comes
    to a decision before the US Tax Court (“CSC vs. Commissioner of the
    IRS,” No. 3352-78 ). On 09/24/1984 the court issues judgment against
    CSC, which CSC appeals. On 07/28/1987 the US Court of Appeals ruling in
    this case (“CSC vs. Commissioner of the IRS,” No. 85-7324) upholds the
    1984 decision:

    “We affirm the Tax Court decision upholding the Commissioner’s revocation
    of the Church of Scientology of California’s tax exempt status on the
    ground that a portion of its income inured to the benefit of L. Ron
    Hubbard and others…”

    • On 07/08/1988 the IRS (citing CSC bad acts) denies tax-exempt status to CST, RTC and CSI and demands
    for-profit income tax returns for all years since inception. The IRS assigns examiners full-time to audit CSC income tax for years 1967 – 1984. CSC consolidates income of both Scientology UK operations and the
    clandestine income siphoning to LRH via the Religious Research Foundation (RRF) during the Flagship Apollo era. CSI funds and directs the CSC tax audit legal defense. Weekly OSA INT statistics graph CSC tax
    liability as income and expense issues undergo examination.


    The US Supreme Court denies Scientologist charitable tax deductions in Hernandez v. Commissioner, 490 U.S. 680 (1989). CSI asserts inconsistent IRS administration in US Tax Court trial April 4-22, 1992
    (Garrison v Commissioner).

    • The IRS completes the CSC audit by 1993, a half billion dollars with penalty and interest. With both the
    final CSC tax assessment and the decision in Garrison on the horizon, the IRS abruptly pulls the plug on the CSC assessment, instead enters into the 10/01/1993 closing agreement with David Miscavige. The closing
    agreement is explicitly silent on the CSC income tax examination. The hot topic of CSC tax liability, which is for years the IRS primary attack target, mysteriously evaporates in a rumor cloud that David Miscavige sanctions covert operations against government officials.
    Here are the clear, simple facts:

    • The closing agreement does
    not recognize CSC as tax exempt. CSI pays $12.5 million to the IRS, a
    suppressive (2½%) percentage of the half billion dollar CSC liability,
    or hardly enough to cover unreported Social Security taxes on CSC
    employee wages, wages which are never to appear on a Social Security
    earning statement despite CSI & IRS joint promises to rectify this
    omission.

    • The State of California, long since agreed to abide by IRS findings, ultimately settles with its namesake for cents on the California tax dollar.

    • Since 1993, CSC files for-profit tax returns ‘under protest’, vows to never give in only to dissolve
    quietly without sorrow in a 2002 to 2004 filing approved by California Attorney General Bill Lockyer (now California State Treasurer).


    CSI presently touts US tax exemption as proof of church status without mention that Hubbard’s mother church CSC is not US tax exempt but factually was considered by the IRS only a for-profit entity up to final
    dissolution in 2004.

    • Inurement to the benefit of LRH is the undisclosed basis of Scientology.

  • Off topic. I am doing some self reflection at the moment. This is really random. I basically question myself on the subject of helping others, altruism vs. self-serving or some middle. Feel free to ignore it altogether.

    I guess what I’m trying to figure out is if I ever helped anyone without expecting an emotional reward or having some sort of heroic concept before that.

    I hate the idea that every good thing I ever did was self-serving. Sorry, if it’s confusing.
    Maybe it’s normal.

    I remember having a dream as a kid where I was kind, caring, loving and helpful to someone who was in tears, scared and alone. That’s my only non-adult memory of being helpful before I grew up.

    What’s your thoughts? Or just ignore.

    • Supper Powers

      You have expectations of yourself. One of them is to serve others. You feel good when you do so. And because of this, you continue to serve others. Good.

    • Supper Powers

      Perhaps this isn’t exactly what you are speaking of, but it’s insightful about reasons why some people give financial gifts. http://susanhowlett.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Seven_Donor_Types.pdf

    • Kestrel

      About ten years ago I realized that I had never done anything for anyone without expecting something in return, even if that something was just recognition. I had to change. Now, my motive is to just be helpful.

      Having briefly met you, you strike me as someone who helps others without a thought of how you are thought of.

    • LongtimeLurker

      I think about this a lot.

      A lot.

      I try to police myself.

      I try to be aware of my emotional state when I “do good things” and if I find I’m thinking about myself more than the other person, I try to stop that.

      Unless you’re telling all your friends on asocial media what a generous altruist you are, then I don’t think it’s a problem.

      You’re allowed to feel a bit good, it’s natural. Resisting natural emotions is toxic.

      I read about some religion that makes its followers mess with their emotions. It sounded pretty bad.

      Man, while I was writing this Disqus was all like “700 other people are typing…”. You’re loved.

      • Supper Powers

        It’s also healthy to demonstrate acts of kindness to set expectations for those around you. It’s part of how we build a compassionate society. So it serves the receiver the giver and the witness.

    • LongtimeLurker

      Also, you know how psychiatrists say “if you’re worried about being a sociopath, you’re probably not one”?

      Dodo, if you worry about being a self-serving jerk…

      • Hubs made the same statement about SP’s and “social personalities”. Ironic.

        • LongtimeLurker

          Well, even a broken watch is right twice a day.

          Unless it’s digital.

    • Liberated

      A person that only does things for selfish reasons, and ulterior motives, would never… ever ask the big questions you just asked.

      It’s human nature to find joy in being kind to another.
      So ,to answer your question you helped others for the right reasons. It’s called empathy, the truly pathalogical have no concept of it.
      They always expect something in return.

      • chukicita

        Empathy is nowhere on the Tone Scale, is it?

        • Liberated

          Hell no, it’s frowned upon.

        • sizzle8

          Self reflection is Uhmmpathy.

    • daisy

      i think a lot of us sometime question our motives. If we are honest with ourselves some good deeds are done more for us than the other person. Perhaps sometimes social norms. In our heart of hearts i think most of us would do the right thing in a desperate situation even when an alternate solution not so good option presents itself.I think that if we are open enough to ponder or ask the question than we probably are good people.That is if we ponder and consider it. Not just assume it to be true ( i am sure Trump has never had a self-serving moment ever ) There is no big mystery about people , we are all just living and rubbing along as best we can. If we are lucky we find someone or something to hang on to and maybe help out.

    • chukicita

      Awww. Ya just do what’s right. Sometimes it comes back at ya, sometimes you’re paying it forward. It all works out. There’s nothing bad about caring enough to help another.

    • noseinabk

      Well Dodo, I’ve been with this community for a bit and have seen you post some great insight and support for ex members and never ins alike. You have a good heart and shouldn’t question that.
      I let a guy cut in line because he had the wrong items and returned them for the correct ones quickly. It was a small thing that turned into a larger thing when he thanked me and said he was purchasing those items for the ladies at the nursing home. That made me feel good and why should I not enjoy that moment? I enjoyed it even more becouse the woman behind me huffed and puffed about the 1 minute delay. Bet she felt like a jerk when he explained.

      I admit, I do those kinds of things to rebel against those that can’t be bothered to see others as needing a little kindness to get through the day. Just because it makes a person feel good to help others doesn’t mean they do it for themselves only.

    • everchangingmeezer (wogsy)

      Self reflection is breath for the soul. You wouldn’t be a decent human if you didn’t question your intentions. I think it’s a bit of both. It’s natural to feel good if you are helping someone. I think it would be self serving if you are a people pleaser. Then it becomes like a bad addiction.

    • Rasha

      I have tried to emulate my Dad, who would never hesitate a second to warm up all his kids’ cars on a frozen snowy morning, or ever complain about having to come out and replace a tire on the freeway at 2:00 am for any of us. I hold no one in higher esteem. I do know, however, feeling unthanked, and unappreciated, but then I remember that I never told him how much I appreciated, admired and needed the things he did. And he never asked me to.

      He wasn’t altruistic, he did what he could for those he loved.

      That said, I do want to know that what I do matters. Supporting a friend, backing up a co-worker, making someone laugh, taking on a burdensome task…. I don’t do them because I want reward, but I have learned from my Dad’s life that a smile, a thanks, a small note in the mailbox more than rewards anything I may have done. I don’t expect it, but it means so much.

      Even when I feel no one appreciates Rasha, I like to think I did make a difference. And maybe someone, like me, is learning how important it is to say thank you when you still have time.

      Just Rasha’s thoughts. Or ignore. ;P

    • Mockingbird

      You can look at theories on mammalian species and empathy and compassion. Humans often feel good about helping other people by in certain hypotheses having mirror neurons generate imagined identical experiences to other people.

      So for many people in this idea a person can feel good about imagining that another person is happy or avoiding suffering. That certainly fits altruism to me.

    • Gib

      off of the top of my head, I think the Autobiography of Ben Franklin is a fantastic read and might answer or at least provide some ideas. It’s free online at Gutenberg Project.

      The Junto Club comes to mind.

      Scientology is certainly no Junto club.

    • “helping others”… try use some other words! I have been grinding this topic for a long time, as while LRH was in my head, no matter what i did, it was all about helping others. I do lot’s of stuff that are useful to others, creative or maybe inspiring. If i do something, that might return a favor, i will balance it out before it becomes some sort of an obligation from the other part. Scios have this “exchange system” and that is going to mess up any ability to do any good. A days work, is a days work. no problem there. But if i sit, on the receiving end, of “help”, a thank you and just acknowledging is more giving than any coins. (except BitCoins)

    • Ella Raitch

      Self reflection is very healthy so this in itself is a good sign for you Dodo.

      I work in a human services field and work alongside a number of people who’s entire sense of self is tied up with how they help others. For them, this persona of the tireless person putting themselves out for others is a huge anchor point for them, and it doesn’t look healthy to me.

      We are all flawed, but taking time for a reality check is so very grown up Dodo

      ^^this is why (we love you)

    • Sherbet

      To do something and expect or demand some fawning gratitude is very different from allowing yourself to feel good about what you’ve done. It’s natural and normal to feel very good about yourself having done something altruistic. I don’t believe everything you’ve ever done has been self-serving. That’s not the Dodo whom we’ve gotten to know in the Bunker.

      But if you’re worried about having your heart in the right place, try to do some of that good anonymously. Then you can bask in the, well, the warm fuzzies that you’ll feel, without having them obscured or complicated by expectations of personal gratitude.

    • sizzle8

      Whether it was self-serving or not, every helpful thing you did for another was….helpful.

    • I hear you. I did something to help a stranger a while back and after it was over, I was walking back to my office and burst in to tears because it felt so good to have just helped some random person in a significant way. I wanted to tell everyone what I did, but I had this feeling that it was better left unspoken. That I didn’t do it for kudos and I just didn’t want to feed that part of my ego. Helping others always feels good. Even if nobody knows about it.

    • Missionary Kid

      There are all sorts of reasons for being altruistic. I know some people who, while much of what do seems altruistic, but they really want the kudos that come when others recognize their efforts. Some people just want to live in a better world, and by helping others, they feel that they are contributing to that goal. Some people identify with other’s plight, and put themselves in the other person’s place.

      A kindness that is not even thought of sometimes comes back in the most unexpected ways. Something that I wrote as a prediction for a shy high school classmate (that she would become an extrovert) came back when she thanked me at our 50th class reunion. It turns out that she was hard of hearing, and hid it, but as a woman, she worked hard to overcome it and even became a city council member by going door to door.

      You really are a kind, helpful, person. To echo LL, you are loved because of it, as well as other reasons.

    • grundoon

      Mark Twain made a strong (and long) argument that “the only impulse that ever moves a person to do a thing… is the impulse to content his own spirit — the necessity of contenting his own spirit and winning its approval…. love, hate, charity, revenge, humanity, magnanimity, forgiveness: Different results of the one master impulse: the necessity of securing one’s self-approval.” What is Man? (1906)

      As a decent human being, there are limits to your happiness so long as others are suffering, near or far. Your compassionate action to relieve another’s suffering therefore benefits all decent people, not just those directly involved. If you disdain this benefit and take pride in prolonging your own suffering, it is counterproductive and futile. We should be trying to vanquish suffering, not merely redistribute it. – grundoon

      “That’s what I consider true generosity: You give your all, and yet you always feel as if it costs you nothing.” – Simone de Beauvoir

      “To know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson

      “When we know ourselves to be connected to all others, acting compassionately is simply the natural thing to do.” – Rachel Naomi Remen

      “Years ago I recognized my kinship with all living things, and I made up my mind that I was not one bit better than the meanest on the earth. I said then and I say now, that while there is a lower class, I am in it; while there is a criminal element, I am of it; while there is a soul in prison, I am not free.” – Eugene V. Debs, Debs: His Life, Writings and Speeches

      “Those who are happiest are those who do the most for others.” – Booker T. Washington, Up from Slavery

      “A bit of fragrance always clings to the hand that gives roses.” – Chinese Proverb

    • it’s normal to question oneself. I try not to worry about overdoing it 😉

    • TheMirrorThetan

      Dodo, You are a good soul. It is normal to question yourself and your motives sometimes.
      There have probably been many times that you helped someone and really made a difference to their day, without even knowing it. Maybe it doesn’t even matter in the long run. Helping someone and giving them comfort or support is a good thing, no matter what your motives are.You don’t seem the type to do it so they owe you a favour, or are intending to use your powers for evil, so take it easy on yourself.

    • OOkpik

      Yes, I have reflected on that too. For me it kept coming back to this:

      Helping others always has its rewards if we are aware of having helped. Even if we are not, life is that much better for our having helped.

      I believe that whether an act is self-serving or wholly selfless is a matter of intention; of motivation. If we give freely of ourselves without expectation of any kind of reciprocation, that is selfless. Feeling good about your contribution doesn’t change that. It is meant to keep us motivated to reach out with kindness and a generous spirit towards others, so that we can all do better in life.

      I also believe that graciously accepting help or gratitude is also part of giving. We aren’t alone in wanting to make ourselves helpful to others. All give and no take is as socially unbalanced as all take and no give. Both can end up being hurtful.

      Unless everything you have written here is one big lie, you are a good man, dear Dodo.
      Be kind to yourself too. <3 <3 <3

      • Kestrel

        Well said.

    • MarcabExpat

      Well, you’ve helped me a time or two, Dodo. Both by replying to me, and just by commenting in a more general sense. And you may not have known it at the time. One can’t always know the effect one has on someone else, which is why everybody should consciously try not to be assholes.

      Not being able to recall deliberately being helpful to someone doesn’t mean that you never did so — it may not stick in your memory because it wasn’t valued at the time by adults in your life. I was often praised for being obedient. I was not often praised for being “helpful” because as a girl I was simply expected to always put myself at the service of anyone around me. The idea that I would be kind to someone as a matter of taking my own initiative might have come across as egotistical on my part.

      But more importantly, it also doesn’t mean that you weren’t helpful even when not undertaking a conscious act to be. Lots of people, if they are decent, good people, are helpful generally to people around them without significantly going out of their way to do so. It’s a matter of how you interact with people, whether you respect them, whether you are able to see things from their point of view. Any genuine kindness starts from that. And even if you didn’t reach far to help anyone, you have have just not felt emotionally free enough that that behavior resulted from that empathy. Which is why, if you notice it now, that may have flowered out of your own new-gained freedom.

      Having heard the bits of your and your family’s story as shared here at the Bunker, I have a hard time imagining you suddenly waking up one day and deciding to be kind, or altruistic, or however you want to put it. I’ve seen you be extraordinarily kind and helpful here a number of times and that doesn’t just pop up in someone’s personality one day when it wasn’t there before. My guess, as someone who’s never actually spent time with you in person, is that the potential was always there, but when you were younger you had either not many outlets, or more likely, not enough emotional autonomy to realize it.

      If I were you, I wouldn’t even rule out the “heroic concept” part of it. When you were in the Cherch, they co-opted every bit of your energy and every part of your personality to their service. In that setting, even if the orders you followed were misguided, the impulse they were exploiting counts, I believe. There are people who claw their way up the Bridge for self-serving reasons (Grant Cardone? Reed Slatkin? Michael Chan?) and people who served because they thought they were helping. Regardless of what processing/training does to a ‘being’ once they’re in, that underlying motivation is still the best indicator of the true person underneath.

      Even when you were young, you were the same person that you would become. And who did you become when you grew up? Someone who married for love, not convenience; someone who was willing to risk everything to do the right thing even after realizing that the right thing was the opposite of what you had thought; someone who tried to save his family because he loved them fiercely.

      And after that terrible day, who did you become then, when you had your freedom? A loving husband and father; a man still willing to put himself out there even for strangers who might be helped by some word or act of yours. That was really brave and you may have developed the courage to do it all in a flash when it came down to the moment. But you didn’t develop the character to make those choices in an instant. That’s not how character works.

      You must have been that way all along, waiting to be realize that potential. And now you have done so.

  • Chee Chalker

    I’m going to risk the jinx……but it looks like the Cubs are going to the World Series!!!!

    This proves anything is possible….tick tock Davey!

    • Supper Powers

      Grown men are crying!

      • Chee Chalker

        And grown women…..sniff sniff!

        Gotta run outside. Fireworks 💥!!

        • jazzlover

          Batten down the hatches and nail your car down!

          • Supper Powers

            Unlikely.

            • jazzlover

              Cities have been destroyed as a result of sports-related euphoria…….or anger. Ask Vancouver, where it happened twice!

            • Supper Powers

              I stand by my comment.

            • jazzlover

              Ok. Just funnin’

          • Chee Chalker

            I live about 5 – 6 miles from Wrigley….cars are honking, fireworks are popping (at least I hope they are fireworks), people are singing….
            I’m telling you….if they win the WS I’m almost afraid of that party.

            The Cubs are our white whale….every other major sports team has won a a championship in my lifetime.

            Now it begins…..call me Ishmael…..

            • Liberated

              Hey Ishmael, you are so lucky!!

            • jazzlover

              I’m sure things got crazy when the Blackhawks won their first Cup during this run, right? I know when the Rangers won here after a 54 year drought, things were wild for like a week. I went to that parade. Never again 🙂

            • Chee Chalker

              Yes but surprisingly it wasn’t too bad. The worst I have ever seen were the Bulls championships. The first one happened when I lived downtown (when I was still relatively young and fun).
              We lived in the ‘corn cob’ buildings right on the Chicago River (Marina Towers) so when they won we went out to join in the celebrations. Walked down to the area with all the bars (Division St.) and were met with a wall of police officers on police horses. And many more police officers fully dressed in riot gear.
              And things still got crazy, so we got out of there in a hurry.
              The Bulls won several times so by the time the third championship came around, the police were ready and the celebrations were very controlled, but the first couple of times was scary.

              Hockey fans are rowdy, but (Blackhawk fans at least) are not super destructive. I don’t remember any reports of serious damage.

              When the Bears won in ’85 the city went nuts and threw a big parade even though it was below freezing. That is when I learned that I didn’t care how my hair looked, I would never go out in January without a hat again.

            • jazzlover

              LOL. I can imagine, but after 6 Bulls titles, things probably felt old hat. When the Canuckleheads lost to the Rangers in ’94 and to the Bruins in 2011, the natives literally destroyed the city – burning cars and destroying tons of other stuff. Those hockey fans in Canada take that stuff seriously 🙂

            • ReallyMGM

              It happens after college championships too. Students dragging dorm furniture into street, setting it on fire (Kentucky). And in many cases? This sort of SHIT has become tradition!

              However, I can’t help but think back to Super Bowl 2009 when New Orleans won and the overwhelming joyeous celebrations across NO and the Gulf Coast area around it afterward. The news reports from the French Quarter were incredible. I remember worrying if an idiot would set it on fire, but nope. Marci Gras just started early! NOLA can probably comment probably more about it than me. I just know that *what I saw reported* was perfect fan response to a long awaited championship.

              (I’m sure there were some brainless idiots that went out and shot bullets into the sky to celebrate because that is what brainless idiots do.)

            • Missionary Kid

              I was ready for anything when I was in Cleveland for HowdyCon and stayed over so I happened to be there for the Cavaliers’ win. The crowds were joyful and peaceful. The cops pretty much stayed away, which seemed to keep the crowds from getting incited. Earlier, I had seen them staging in various parts of town, like a cemetery.

              I saw on TV that cop car got trashed, but a tow truck came and towed it away. No other cops showed up to confront everyone.

              There were a few people doing stupid things, but everyone was so happy: yelling, singing, dancing, and high-five-ing. Very few people got hurt, in spite of all of the booze that everyone had consumed. Cleveland did it with class. The mess of trash was cleaned up by the next day.

              I hope that either Chicago, or Cleveland (again) can duplicate that type of celebration (or sadness) whatever happens.

            • Sherbet

              Believe me — I know how you feel. Two words: Red Sox

              I hope this is the Cubs’ year, as 2004 was Boston’s year.

  • Liberated

    Cubs win Cubs win….!!!!

  • Tony Ortega

    So happy for the people of Chicago. And for Cleveland.

    • Chee Chalker

      All I have to say is that the Cleve had better be ready!

    • Ella Raitch

      It might be the year of the underdog, or rank outsider. Doggies won the Aussie rules this year to break a 60+ year drought….Leicester with the premier league…..Cleveland with the basketball….

      • Liberated

        And this is 70 years for the Cubs.

        • Missionary Kid

          If they win the World Series, it’ll be 108 years.

    • Mockingbird

      Was it announced that they are each getting ideal orgs ??

  • Hamtaro

    This week my family has been vacationing at a nice resort hotel in Hell. But just now it suddenly froze over. The manager, Mr. Satan, said this hasn’t happened in over 70 years.

    Random question: did something unusual happen tonight involving the Chicago Cubs?

  • Thank you.

  • Liberated

    My son and his wife are in the Dominican Republic and he says there are tons of Cubs fans there.
    Everyone is going crazy.

    • jazzlover

      Wonder if anything’s going on in a place like Cooperstown.

  • Supper Powers
  • jazzlover

    Funny debate themed opening skit on SNL right now.

    • Liberated

      Yep, I’m watching

      • jazzlover

        I think Alec Baldwin is having a career resurgence 🙂

        • Liberated

          Me too, do you think I’m a nasty women?

          • jazzlover

            Lemme take a closer look at your avatar before I decide 😉

          • Robert Eckert

            All the bad hombres think so.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Lol

  • Jimmy3

    Grats Cubbie fans. Hope you won’t be too disappointed with the runner-up trophy.
    ETA: sorry it seems there is no runner-up trophy.

    • Liberated

      Hush up.

      • Jimmy3

        I WILL NOT BE SILENCED
        unless maybe if you asked nicely. Then I would consider it.

        • Liberated

          Gotta sleep on it.

      • jazzlover

        You call THAT nasty?

        • Liberated

          Hey man , I’m in a very good mood.

          • jazzlover

            I understand 🙂

    • Mockingbird

      Ouch. Can’t the Cubs FINALLY win the world series ?

  • Jimmy3

    And then the Sports Gods decide we have too much victory this year, so they smite the Buckeyes

  • noseinabk

    Ot as usual: I have just realized a great failure in my parenting. My daughter dressed as an old patched up doll for a Halloween party and refuses to change until bed. I told her that every time I walk by her I think of the chitty chitty bang bang fake doll. She doesn’t know what what the heck I’m talking about. I’m gonna entice the kid with snacks to watch at least part of the movie .

    • sizzle8

      Oh great! Now you started the ear worm!

  • Kid Kat

    LRH: The early years event at Seattle Org. Sounds like a good time for a protest telling the truths about the man.

    • Observer’s “Truth About Ron” Series is good inspiration:
      https://www.facebook.com/truthaboutronseries/

      • What’sup

        Yay, I joined.

      • LongtimeLurker

        I didn’t know Obs had a whole thing. Thanks.

      • LongtimeLurker

        You won’t see this until tomorrow, or maybe never, but how’s the little snoggie?

        • He’s doing well. Taking his meds without too much struggle. I’m very lucky

          • LongtimeLurker

            Good news! Give him a kiss from me.

    • Dave Reams

      Old time Washington state residents are still chuckling about when that navy guy in WW2 tried to sink Ooooregon with depth charges.

  • beauty for ashes
    • Jimmy3

      They’d make some nice pelts. Indians be warm for winter.

      • beauty for ashes

        also said about bearded Irishmen. keep babies warm. :p

  • everchangingmeezer (wogsy)

    Happy 5 months to Meeragirl 🍁🍂. I swear, if anyone would have told me a year ago that I would be a cat owner, i would have said “pfffft”. What a joy she’s been in my life. She partied like crazy today and she sleeeeepyyyyzzzzzz now https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a0f42147068f3bc9ef0a0a9aeee0dcc29a30e0cf299f3a63109bbb638ec2f471.jpg ….Meow f5

    • ReallyMGM

      Beautiful!

    • vicariousthrill

      All it takes for someone who doesn’t prefer cats is to own one. After that, love.

  • LongtimeLurker
    • daisy

      We are craving twitter silence from you. I would word clear the word insane and then look in a mirror.

  • Graham

    BBC Radio 4 religious news programme this morning had an interview with Steve Cannane about his new book ‘Fair Game’. Boy does he know his stuff, and really knows how to get it across. $camatology of course was unable to put up a spokesperson and just sent their usual whinge about how biased the book is which, as Steve remarked, is interesting as they’ve also claimed not to have read it.

    ETA: Link, which may or may not run outside UK. Steve @ 21:30 http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07zxgjm

    • Graham

      The next piece after Steve’s mentions Article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human rights: the right to have a religion, the right not to have a religion and THE RIGHT TO CHANGE ONES RELIGION.

      How does Scientology’s Human Rights front group square that with Disconnection?

      • Michael Leonard Tilse

        Scientology recognizes your (or anybody’s) right to change ones religion. How else could they recruit. They recognize the right to leave one’s religion. But they reserve to themselves the right to destroy your life if you leave theirs.

  • Michael Leonard Tilse

    Ford Greene, after he had taken my $5 and made agreement to represent me during a personal visit I made to his law office in San Anselmo, in getting some of my money back from Scientology, refused to do so. When Ken Long of OSA told me he had cut checks for me for the amount of slightly over $14,000 in exchange for me signing some kind of contract, I referred Ken Long to Ford Greene as being my legal representation.

    Ford Greene thereafter neither (to my knowledge) never contacted Ken Long on my behalf nor did he return my phone calls.

    I guess it is because he told me, in passing, in a way that I did not understand the statement’s significance and thought it was a general statement of the troubles he had had with Scientology, that “Scientology has compromised me.”

    I guess I am not sure even today what he meant. But he sure left me hanging in the wind. I’m not surprised that he would cast scant praise at Jon.

    • coonellie

      Thank you for bringing this up again. I remember your post about this a long time ago. I’m so sorry.

      • Michael Leonard Tilse

        Thanks.

        Make no mistake. I applaud and praise Ford for his efforts in the Wollersheim case. He did a great job, in concert with others. A victory was won where none had come before.

        But somehow, what he did or what Scientology did to him back then, by 2006 had put him in a mindset where he could betray me after having taken me on as a client. He accepted my money and signed an agreement to represent me in trying to get money back from Scientology. He had me photocopy my entire trove of documents, receipts and correspondence involving Scientology, at my cost and send the copies to him. We had a number of phone calls. I told him most of my story. He still has my $5 and all the documents.

        My purpose in retaining Ford was to be my negotiator, one I could trust to protect me from unknowingly signing away rights or compensation while trying to get some unused money off account, for which I was willing to give him 50% of what was recovered.

        That Ken Long of OSA offered me cashiers checks for the value of my unused money in my Scientology accounts in exchange for a blanket release of claims contract puts the lie to the Churches claim of requiring a “Committee of Evidence” or an arbitration or mediation through the IJC for refunds and repayments. They were going to just give it to me in exchange for a NEW CONTRACT that would forever close out any recourse I might have. That’s why I needed Ford.

        But when I called him to actually negotiate for me with Ken Long and the Church, he betrayed me by not doing anything and eventually wouldn’t even return my calls.

        It was unprofessional and a dirtbag move. He has not had the courtesy to apologize, return my 5$ or my documents or return my calls or help me find an attorney that would help. I don’t really care if he thought I was somehow an OSA plant setting him up. I’m pretty sure he had someone on his lines telling him exactly that. To not even deal with me professionally *As An Attorney* seems to be a violation of the standards of his profession.

        His betrayal came at a time when I most needed his support to provide some buffer against the hopelessness, depression and suicidal ideation from what Scientology had done to me and instead amplified all of that almost unbearably. Even writing these posts has triggered a panic attack from being thrown back into that memory. That is why I am up still at nearly 4:00.

        So I appreciate what Ford accomplished. Even Gerry Armstrong told me in one of our conversations that he thought Ford still had at least one great case in him. It’s a great thing to have accomplished.

        But to my knowledge no one has successfully built on his winning case in Wollersheim. And his conduct toward me seriously further damaged my mental health when I couldn’t really afford to experience even further betrayal.

        So, to give faint mention of all the others who contributed to Wollersheim and seemingly grab all the glory for his brilliant contribution just twists the knife because I cannot help but recall how he treated me.

        • noseinabk

          I once payed a substantial amount to an attorney and the case was dropped within2 or 3 days of me paying him. I called his office about returning part lf my retainer since he hadn’t done anything yet. I could hear him in the background tell his secretary to say he was not in and tough shit. The attorney I had after him is a person with integrity who I admire and he would never have done that to me.
          Ford sounds like the first guy I hired.

        • coonellie

          Michael I’m so sorry that it’s bringing back your panic attacks! If you’re ever in the PDX metro area and would like a great meal and coffee (or wine) let me know. I’m a great listener and have been told I can also provide laughs…as can Mr C and Baby C. We’ve been around and through many a fire so we have a lot of empathy (and the sense of humor that goes with it).

          • Michael Leonard Tilse

            Thanks for the support! I don’t get up to PDX area too much, without a car. I live in Corvallis.
            Would love to meet up and chat though.

            • coonellie

              I get down your way a few times a year. I’ll post the next time a trip is planned. I promise. I don’t have a car anymore as Baby C took it for University.

        • Elizabeth Lavet

          This was wrong of that lawyer. You have written a good summary here of his behavior, his failure to make an effort to do what he contracted to do or return your documents and money. Sounds like he already knew he should not be taking the case when he took you on, by his comment that they had compromised him. You can report him to the state bar in your state, you can send him a certified request to get your documents back, you can get another attorney to request your documents and any inquiries they made on your behalf, any information they gleaned. There is a professional ethics “sometimes” between attorneys that they will respond to each other when not to you.. The attorney will have to be one you have a firm understanding with and trust in about any particulars, I would state those in writing to him, your expectations, and keep a copy. Preferably get him to sign it and keep a copy. It could be he lost your paperwork, that scientology stole it, or is actually working on behalf of scientology to block you. I am glad you made it clear here the problems with him so that he does not get a bunch of business from this success. It is too bad the guy did not have enough integrity to follow through or return everything, including your money. Perhaps he did the Lawerence case to make a name for himself. Too bad he is not worth the good name he tried to create. I know it is hard to trust any attorneys now, especially since it takes a special knowledge base to understand Scientology and a skill to negotiate. However, a good lawyer can ignore the bullshit of scientology and target the facts quickly. In some states there are obligations lawyers are to perform when passing the case from one lawyer to another. Another attorney might be able to at least advise you as to what they could do in requesting your documents back and actions you can take. I am sure you know that Tory, Magoo 44, has a video where she states she refused to sign the paperwork scientology said it required and still got her money back. These lawyers who take a case to stop action on it are incredibly hurtful and incredibly unethical. I also understand totally you being so stressed that you felt you just could not take on more. Again, thanks for warning everyone. Besure if you go to another attorney you find out the cost of requesting your documents from the other attorney, can either attorney charge you for copying those documents. Since attorney number one did nothing on the case it could be argued he should just turn over the documents to attorney two and not keep a copy. Also have a firm written agreement as to whether attorney number two will be keeping a copy of the documents or not and whether he will be requesting all copies of your documents from lawyer number one, which you want since he sounds to be working with the other side. I would not have believed this could happen until I read the information on the Lisa MacPherson trust. If any lawyer does not want to put the contracted services in a written agreement, my suggestion, from experience, is to find another lawyer, he is already telling you he isn’t any good and does not intend to fulfill his agreement. Good lawyers are hard to find. Then to find one with the skills set you need. Lawyers are often dealing with a population of people already wronged/hurt, they should empower you, not take advantage of you, not add to the insult. I am not a lawyer, dealt with a lot of lawyers, my advice is worth what you are paying for it here. I have not thought it worthwhile to report a lawyer to the ethics board since some of the lawyers there are highly dishonest and unethical themselves, personal knowledge. It might be that that report elicits some kind of action, such as an inquiry, on your behalf.

          • Michael Leonard Tilse

            Thanks for the suggestions. I really cannot afford to retain a lawyer. For me to do anything it would have to be on the contingency. I just don’t have the energy anymore either. I keep bringing it up because I hope Ford will man-up in someway.

            Currently, unless you have a really strong case, and scientology isn’t of a mind to just make you take years and destroy you in the process, taking them to court is a losing game.

            Until law enforcement actually gets off their butt and brings criminal charges and makes it stick, Scientology Inc. will continue to destroy lives, defraud their members and kill people. With defacto impunity.

            • Elizabeth Lavet

              I understand being at a point you just don’t have it in you to try to follow up and make justice happen and being frustrated that they (the lawyer and Scinetology) still get away with it. I will be praying that God intervenes on your behalf. I too have been struggling with letting go of offenses that I think I need to do something about but the effort seems too great in one case and futile in both cases. You have helped me remember just now, this very minute that there was a time in my life that I was so frustrated with the guy I was dating that I just turned him over to God, told God I give up and if he wanted me to talk to him to prepare his heart and bring him to my front door, I turned on the porch light, opened the door and sat there waiting. He came and apologized. He did not really change. I still needed to separate from him. I am glad you speak out, so that is not what I am saying. I am saying somehow my encounter with you has helped me a bit and I thank you, you reminded me. I know God has special ways of working it out for each person. Today he has worked through you for me. I pray for the very best outcome for you. Thank you for your courage to speak out. May you find your answers.

            • Elizabeth Lavet

              You know, the frustrating thing dealing with lawyers is that when they do not do their job they have wasted not only your time and money, but also your emotional input. Often critical timing is lost, which changes everything, and you end up feeling really betrayed, because you were. You were made false promises. It is even worse when you think it might have been on purpose, because all the parties know each other, at least that was my experience. It becomes a little like the craziness in Scientology where they say one thing and do another, you try to figure them out and can’t because it does not make sense. The thing is, you and I are not crazy, the lawyers are acting unethical. Many of them will act unethical when you least expect it, I have found. The ones you would swear are the most ethical and above board can turn out to be the biggest skunks. I think this is a human condition, just more so in the legal profession. I have to figure out how to take care of myself and move forward the best way possible. I was so frustrated with my horrendous experience in Scientology and not being heard and now I find out people are speaking out. I think you did a very balanced job of speaking out, I applaud you, you might have saved some poor soul getting involved with that law firm.

  • Graham

    “The crummy, cheap-looking Jack Reacher: Never Go Back may have been directed by Edward Zwick and inspired by a series of pulpy novels by Lee Child, but its inane plotting; randomly gratuitous violence; utter sexlessness; questionable grasp of grown-up behaviour and strict insistence on having characters constantly address the indestructible, leather-jacket–wearing hero as “Reacher” or “Major” (to which he very modestly replies, “ex-Major”) suggest that the true author might have been a 7- or 8-year-old boy. ”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/item/7dce9f65-3d97-405d-b291-4b60c1848ce8

    • LongtimeLurker

      Zwick directed Last Samurai, which I thought was well directed, if nothing else.

      But the rest of his career is patchy.

      The director of the first Reacher (McQuarrie), is more suited to this material, imho.

      Strange he didn’t direct the sequel, he’s worked with Cruise 3 times and I just checked and he wasn’t doing anything during JR2’s production except exec producing a TV show.

      He and Tom must have had issues.

  • Juicer77

    Tony, if you liked Steve Canane’s walk in London, try the Londonist Out Loud podcast. Super episode on the anniversary of the Great Fire of London (and the monument) a few weeks ago. http://londonist.com/podcasts

  • Lighthouse

    So glad that Lawrence finally got compensation from this evil organisation.

    To have to fight so hard for what is not a lot of money by its standards is soul destroying. But he won, thanks to the team he had fighting for him, one namely being you, Jon.

    Thanks for publishing the facts, for clearing up the confusion; and also the good news, which is that Lawrence won!