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EXCLUSIVE: Recent deaths of Scientology rehab staffers points to ongoing problem

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Rod Keller watches Scientology social media for us, and this week he got wind of the death of a former Narconon staff member. As he looked into it further, Rod discovered a disturbing trend…

Karl Richard Tempest died on September 24. Karl had become a “student” at one of the Church of Scientology’s drug rehab centers, the Narconon Sunshine Summit Lodge in Warner Springs, California in 2012 after he experienced seizures as he came off an airplane after attending a family wedding. He was suffering from delirium tremens, a condition that results from a lack of alcohol after a period of heavy drinking, most common in those who have abused alcohol for 10 years or more.

Unlike traditional addiction rehab facilities, Narconon encourages patients to go directly from treatment to an unpaid internship, and from there to become a member of the staff, earning minimum wage. In traditional rehab centers years of sobriety and an undergraduate or graduate degree can be required to become a counselor.

 
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After completing his Narconon program in California he became an intern there, and later became a staff member at Narconon Rainbow Canyon in Caliente, Nevada. He served as a course supervisor. Course supervisors in Narconon have the same responsibilities as they do in the larger Scientology organization. They sit in the courseroom and assist students as they study materials. In Scientology they supervise students of Scientology as they make their way towards Clear and beyond to the Operating Thetan levels. In Narconon they supervise substance abuse patients as they study the eight Narconon courses.

 
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Karl was promoted to Director of Inspections and Reports, an executive position within the Hubbard Communications Office, or HCO. Commonly known as “ethics,” the position is responsible for handling real or imagined misbehavior, but is also the person responsible for compiling the statistics of any Scientology org, including Narconon. By all accounts he did not relapse in his four years at Narconon, and made many friends. He is remembered fondly, as many students credit him as the person who made their stay more bearable.

Karl left Narconon earlier this year and returned to live with his mother in Linn Creek, Missouri. His father recalls it was either because he wasn’t being paid or he wasn’t being promoted. His mother is the owner of Donna’s Ice House, a bar known for hosting live music events. On September 26th his mother found Karl had passed away on the floor of their home and called the Sheriff’s office. The Camden County Medical Examiner performed an autopsy, and the results may be available in a few months, but Karl’s father Joe Tempest is sure his death was related to his addiction. “Karl fell back into a bad crowd with people at his mother’s bar. He told me he was having seizures again and vomiting. I told him to go to a doctor, but he didn’t.”

 
keller31p4

 
Former Narconon staff who knew Karl are understandably upset, all the more so because this kind of news has become a common occurrence. I spoke with three current and former staff members who spoke with me on the condition they not be identified: “Amy,” “Beth,” and “Carol.”

Deaths at Narconon have affected Amy deeply. “Karl marks number fourteen since I’ve been home and it begins to take a toll on you when people constantly email you about deaths. I’m overwhelmed. It’s taken me almost a year to get back to somewhat normal and then this happens. I get flashbacks every day of that place, when I see or hear the words Scientology or Narconon I choke up and cry.”

 
keller31p5

 
Despite her negative associations with Narconon, Amy continues to believe in the value of the program. “Narconon can and has saved lives but has destroyed many in different ways. I’m a product of that. The program is amazing. I’m still going to stand by it ten thousand percent. I do believe in it.”

Beth agrees “Karl got me hatted up on the program so I could start working there. It’s been a rough year for our group as Narconon staff members because we have lost so many this year – probably about six or seven. Narconon has good standards and tech to get people clean, but right now they don’t have the right people who want to help. They’re just there for the paycheck.”

 
keller31p6

 
Carol is less positive about the value of the tech when it comes to addiction. “I know more people that have come out of there and died than any other place. They are liars who have a false success rate. They exploit kids in the first months of recovery, charge tens of thousands and pay their kids minimum wage. And do not have ANY aftercare. Karl may be an example of an addict who put the time and faith into Narconon and realized when he got home he had learned nothing. I have a problem with any institution that lies to get people there.”

 
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Carol is right – Narconon does not provide aftercare. Quite the opposite, they encourage graduates to avoid counseling of any kind. Scientology opposes Psychiatry and mental health care, and non-Scientology addiction counselors are viewed as “Psychs” to be feared and avoided. They reject the disease model of addiction and teach that their program results in completely removing a person’s addiction and all cravings for alcohol or drugs. If a graduate is no longer an addict, there should be no need for counseling. This is contrary to virtually all other recovery programs, but is very attractive to a family considering a traditional 12-step program who fears that addiction will be with them the rest of their lives. The Narconon name “student” rather than “patient” is symbolic of their view of addiction is not a disease, but an obstacle to be overcome through study.

 
keller31p13

 
Narconon staff have identified several staff members who have died, including the death of Tabatha Fauteux, who died on November 6, 2015 during Narconon training in Hollywood of a heroin overdose. Jesse James Kitko died at his home in Noblesville, Indiana of multi-drug intoxication on November 15, 2015 after leaving Narconon staff.

 
keller31p7

 
Kevin Vavricka died of an overdose on March 25, 2016 four days after leaving Narconon staff.

 
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While relapse by addiction professionals from traditional centers has happened, the relapse and death of up to fourteen staff members from one program is unheard of. Narconon’s advice to departing staff is the same as for all graduates – “Be Temperate.” The advice comes from The Way to Happiness, a booklet by Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard. Narconon teaches that addicts do not need to live a life of abstinence.

 
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A former staff member says that Narconon requested permission to make it clear that addicts risk relapse if they use drugs or alcohol, even in moderation. The request was denied by higher level Scientology officials because they hold that the words of Hubbard are not to be altered in any way, and so Book 8 continues to support temperance, not abstinence.

It isn’t known how many former Narconon staff have relapsed and died, not even among the graduates. They privately keep track of the number of friends lost, but avoid mentioning the causes of these deaths on social media. Some believe in a sort of code that prevents them from telling others what is going on in their group. “When people ask they want names. And that means we are telling on others and makes us relive stuff we don’t want to,” says Amy.

— Rod Keller

 
——————–

Fialkoffs finally rewarded for snowing NYPD and NYC schools

After years of working diligently to infiltrate New York City’s schools and the NYPD with L. Ron Hubbard’s quack drug theories, Queens dentist Bernard Fialkoff and his glamorous daughter, Meghan, have finally gotten their due. Last night in England at the annual IAS gala, David Miscavige rewarded the New York pair with Freedom Medals.

Gosh, we wonder if anyone at the NYPD or in New York media will bother to ask them, if they were simply pushing “secular” programs on New York City school kids, why were they just honored with the Church of Scientology’s highest award for doing “religious” work?

 
fialkoffsmedals2

 
——————–

Donald Trump tweet implies Kirstie Alley’s support after she dumps him

We’re curious to see what Kirstie Alley is going to do, if anything, after Donald Trump this morning retweeted a supporter who included a photo of the actress that implies her support of the Republican candidate, when just the day before Kirstie dropped her support of “either candidate.”

Kirstie had been a big Trump supporter until Friday afternoon’s Access Hollywood tape catching Trump say of women who were star struck by him that he kissed them whether they wanted it or not, and that he could even “grab them by the pussy.”

After that tape went viral, some big names who had been backing Trump unendorsed him, including Alley…

 
alleytweet

 
Our readers noticed that tweet last night, and posted it in our comments section. But this morning, Trump retweeted a follower who included photos of “Women [who] love Donald,” including Alley…

 
trumpalley

 
We’ll be curious to see if Alley noticed, and if she asks Trump to take down the endorsement.

 
——————–

Paulette_Cooper‘The Unbreakable Miss Lovely’ audiobook now on sale

Audible.com has released the audiobook version of The Unbreakable Miss Lovely: How the Church of Scientology tried to destroy Paulette Cooper and you can get the book for free if you’re signing up at Audible for the first time!

Read by the author (that’s us), the book tells the incredible tale of a journalist who was among the first to expose Scientology’s controversies, and nearly paid for it with her life. Go to Audible’s website for more details — [US version] [UK version]

To support the Audible launch, Paulette Cooper joined us for an “Ask Me Anything” session at Reddit on September 29, which covered a lot of topics about the book and about this website.

 
——————–

3D-UnbreakablePosted by Tony Ortega on October 9, 2016 at 07:00

E-mail tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Our book, The Unbreakable Miss Lovely: How the Church of Scientology tried to destroy Paulette Cooper, is on sale at Amazon in paperback, Kindle, and audiobook versions. We’ve posted photographs of Paulette and scenes from her life at a separate location. Reader Sookie put together a complete index. More information about the book, and our 2015 book tour, can also be found at the book’s dedicated page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of L.A. attorney and former church member Vance Woodward
UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists
GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice
SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

Other links: Shelly Miscavige, ten years gone | The Lisa McPherson story told in real time | The Cathriona White stories | The Leah Remini ‘Knowledge Reports’ | Hear audio of a Scientology excommunication | Scientology’s little day care of horrors | Whatever happened to Steve Fishman? | Felony charges for Scientology’s drug rehab scam | Why Scientology digs bomb-proof vaults in the desert | PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer | The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill | Scientology boasts about assistance from Google | The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

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  • Intergalactic Walrus

    Photo from last night’s Patron’s Ball – check out the guy on the right side, next to the blond! :O
    (refresh)

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/bd64153a3ec6338effe212182a68fcfaa3b91ca58a5bdaee41c1452302654db5.png

    • Observer

      These events always look like they’re held in a magpie’s nest.

    • flyonthewall

      prob stuck in an electronic incident, poor bastard

      • Rasha

        …read that as “probe”…

        …can’t stop giggling, now…

  • OOkpik

    Reputable drug and alcohol rehabs are well aware that addicts are susceptible to relapse, no matter how effective the detoxification program. Addiction is managed, not cured. That’s why there is aftercare.

    How dare Scientology sacrifice the vulnerable because some arrogant, ill-informed know-it-all decreed that his moronic blatherings be followed to the letter, forever unchanged. And all for the almighty buck!

    How dare Scientologists who know the life-threatening potential of such blatantly wrong information, continue to play along and sabotage the sanity and lives of others.

    Thank you, Rod Keller and Tony, for today’s article. I hope it gains plenty of momentum.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3Lr0pHQlnA

  • JJ

    I’m thinkin when some one asks a Scientologist if they are part of the problem or part of the solution, to the ravages of drug abuse in this world the answer is: Yes…

  • Mockingbird

    Way, way OT several groups are reporting footage of Trump using the N word has been reported and may be released. Good fucking luck with that. He and Hubbard are so alike.

    http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/johnwright/report_trump_used_n_word_in_unreleased_footage_from_apprentice

    • JJ

      Color me so surprised eh…. I mean is anything gonna be truly shocking anymore. Oh thought of one. Trump secretly gay. There that’s a new one right?

      • Mockingbird

        Haha. That would actually sink him. Among his supporters the N word tape would increase their support.

        • JJ

          Pathetic but probably true. Do they want a definition of “deplorable”? That’s pretty much it. Sexist,homophobic,racist, let’s all go back to the good old days of 1952′ bullshit. News Flash, 1952 wasn’t that great for a lot of people. Legitimate fears for many. The world may not remain the close minded, biased, uneven playing field it has always been. If you and yours benefited from unjust systems and reaped the rewards of bias and graft, nepotism and isolationism, you probably are not going to be better off in a free, open, non-judgemental society where merit takes the place in deciding success ahead of who you know and what you look like.

          • Mockingbird

            I hope we overcome prejudices including racism and misogyny and religious discrimination but am not blindly optimistic about it.

    • Liberated

      If indeed this tape comes to light, so what, the idiots that support him now will continue to support him.
      In fact, David Duke and other white supremacists will love it.
      He gives voice (or should I say panders) to the lowest of low, people of that ilk love him.
      I say bring it on……let’s see just how crazy this can get.

      On Raw Story there is a video of the Dalia Lama trash talking Trump, it’s hilarious. Wish I had your skills to give a link to it. It was last week, maybe you can find it.

  • Elizabeth Lavet

    This is so sad. I wonder if these people who relapsed and died realized how much other people valued them, how they had personally impacted other people in a positive way. What I noticed was people talking about the personal touch, the one on one, their personalities, not how well they administered or taught scientology tech. Perhaps this is a good time, if you know something good about someone, if you especially value them for something and have not let them know, perhaps take time to tell them or write them a note and let them know what they have meant to you, what you are grateful for. Risk letting it be known. Tony Ortega, I appreciate you and those you are connected with bringing us factual information about Scientology. Getting more familiar with the subject and the people makes me a little braver about telling my own little experiences, which is helpful for me to do. I feel the fear they try to instill leaving and knowledge setting me free. Also, thanks to all the commenters that also help educate me, make me laugh, entertain me, share themselves. God bless you all.

  • Rest in Peace Karl. You unlished the Tempest.

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    For the first time ever, I actually wish LRH’s bullsh*t was true….
    I just turned on CNN and I want to EXTERIORIZE as far away from this awful election as possible!!!

    • Mockingbird

      See, the mad hopelessness of US politics makes Scientology desirable as a fantasy to escape reality. But this fantasy carries too heavy a real price unfortunately.

    • Mymy88

      It’s so surreal I do feel like I’m on another planet.

      • Mockingbird

        Remember when George W Bush was the most embarrassing politician we had ? Oh the good old days.

      • Mockingbird

        Planet Trump. I wanna get off, without grabbing a p—y without permission to do it.

    • we get bullbaited here on the other side of the planet with this stuff, so there is no escape!

    • Mockingbird

      You could go to the Scientology vaults and live in seclusion.

  • Baby

    Painted this years ago and gave to someone who needed it.. Just remembered I had it in my files.. f5

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/9921d89ef13914c823d30e55f0150d7978d5b0fdeda5b0d6183f8a474985916d.jpg

  • Observer
  • Tony Ortega

    How the hell am I supposed to be writing a story for tomorrow with this debate debacle going on? Anyone want to write a guest column?

    • Ella Raitch

      Is it on now? Can we haz live blogging?

    • ScieNAHolgist
      • Ella Raitch

        Which one is Clinton?

    • Mockingbird

      You could give in and do the ties the candidates have to Scientology or similarities between Trump and Hubbard or donations from the candidates to Scientology or its front groups or…something else.

      There are lots of possibilities. Bill Clinton’s Scientology policies during his presidency. A brief review of Scientology and US politics. Hubbard’s words about politics. If you sift through several policies and tapes he said quite a bit on it and his ideal of a benevolent dictatorship as the best government.

      • He said he didn’t have the time. Yehaa – give Tony your personal Exit story! It’s long and well written.

        • Mockingbird

          I have talked to Tony Ortega in the past and if he wanted to use my old (and frankly poorly written autobiography) he can use it, or an edited version or excerpt any time he likes.

          A Million Years In Hell

          http://mbnest.blogspot.com/2015/02/a-million-years-in-hell.html

          • It’s not poorly written.. Doh! It’s a real tear pressure and kleenex enhancer 🙂

            • Mockingbird

              You are kind, but the grammar and punctuation is terrible. I didn’t understand those things well with a Scientology education. That is part of a story. Steven King for example in On Writing explained that you just must get grammar and punctuation right. Otherwise people get distracted and confused and can’t enjoy the story.

              It really needs heavy editing.

            • I’m just poking you 🙂 … well it might not live up to the standard, but the content 🙂
              When you get to the “Okay , now for the worst part .” – it get’s really exciting. It’s a good read also because it reflect much of my own experience. Sorta!

            • Mockingbird

              Thanks. Tony Ortega an use any of it or you can always share the link.

          • Frodis73

            Where is your story MB? I have not read it.

            • Mockingbird

              I have a link in the last comment.

            • refresh!

    • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

      I’ll tell you what…I didn’t think I’d say this, but I’m going to say it…Tomorrow’s story will be so good, we’ve never seen anything like it. It’ll be full of words, the best words we’ve ever seen.

  • Shayne

    Can any of you recovering scientologists recommend a site/blog where non-scientologists can pose questions? I assume many people would like to ask questions, that might seem basic to all of you. I recently posted a question on this site, which was off-topic, I admit. And it was deleted. Many people are curious. Please give us a safe place to ask questions.

    • Tony Ortega

      People often ask questions here that our ex-Scientologist readers answer promptly and well.

      I don’t delete things that are off-topic unless they are demeaning.

      • Shayne

        My question wasn’t even remotely demeaning. I asked where all the people were, in the amazing drone fly-overs of the scientology properties.

        • Tony Ortega

          I didn’t delete such a question. Might have been a Disqus glitch.

        • your question is still there, but we all jump over to the new post at 7am NY time

          • Shayne

            Thanks so much.

            • Harmless Weirdo

              Also, Disqus can be pretty damned squirrely. I’ve posted a few comments that disappeared despite repeated F5’ing, only to reappear hours later.

              The few comments I’ve seen deleted here were intentionally offensive/abusive, or doxxed people. I think I’ve also seen a couple removed that unwittingly followed lines of speculation into inappropriate places. But off-topic comments? There is no such thing here, as far as I can tell. 🙂

        • Tony Ortega

          As for your question, the majority of places we’ve seen in drone footage — Twin Peaks, Creston, Lady Washington, and Petrolia — have only a few people living and working there. So the chance of catching them outside during any particular five or six minutes of flyover is pretty low. As for Int Base, our drone pilot confirmed that he flew over on a Sunday morning, which is the quietest time at the base, and when there’s less chance of seeing a muster or other outside activity.

      • Shayne

        Thank you!

    • At reddit – https://www.reddit.com/r/scientology/
      It’s a more slow pace, but perfectly valid. I think!

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      Hi Shayne, it’s good to have you here 🙂

    • Frodis73

      Welcome to the Bunker Shayne! There are both non-scientologists and ex/recovering scientologists that participate here. I have never been a sci, just an outside observer horrified by what they do. Sometimes a question can get over looked if it is busy, so you may want to try again.. Anyway, again, welcome and feel free to jump right in to the conversation.
      eta-clarification, but I now see TO answered

    • MarcabExpat

      This is probably the very best place to ask such questions. It’s okay if they’re basic. We’re friendly and we’re rich in information resources. Don’t assume that your questions are deleted; this blog values freedom of speech and opinion. All we have to do is treat each other with basic decency. Tony really only deletes abuse or speech that might put someone at risk, either personally or legally. I’ve been here for years and it’s very rare.

    • pluvo

      “I recently posted a question on this site, which was off-topic, I admit. And it was deleted.”

      There are frequently off-topic comments here, and they normally don’t get deleted. It’s good so when they are marked with “Off-topic”. After some hours commenters are anyway just chatting about anything.

      It happens frequently that I can’t find my replies in the comments sections. It’s a thing with disqus. Mostly I can find it again when I refresh the site or find it in my disqus profile. BTW the majority here are not ex -Scientologists but were never-in.

      Chris Shelton also answers questions about Scientology in his Q&A videos: http://mncriticalthinking.com/

  • Liberated

    Totally OT………..John Lennon was born today, 1940 🙁

    Love him.

    • Intergalactic Walrus

      Wasn’t Sean Lennon born on John’s birthday?

      • Liberated

        Yep

  • Mymy88

    oooooooooo Did anybody just see the look on Bill Clinton’s face when he was walking out! But he did break into a smile as he stepped onto the stage. Melania Trump doesn’t look too relaxed herself.

    ETA: He looked mad as hell.

  • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

    Bugger it, I can’t miss the debate. Better get some strong coffee on: I have to be awake in 4 hours!

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      Go, Anderson!!

      (Realise I’m talking to myself (and probably using too many exclamation marks) but I have too much caffeine in my system!)

      • MarcabExpat

        Are you glad you watched? I honestly wish I’d given it a miss. I learned nothing and I feel muddy.

        • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

          It was fascinating, but now I can’t sleep and I have to be awake in 90 mins, so I expect to be taking to the fainting couch by mid-afternoon 🙂

        • pluvo

          It was disgusting. Had to force myself to watch it, but sometimes it’s necessary to experience what’s going on.

  • Susan black

    Trump looks drugged to me.

    • Frodis73

      Lol, he does look kinda off though, seriously.

  • Frodis73

    I have one word: DEFLECTION!!!!! lol DT is an idiot.

  • Mymy88

    OH MY GOD! Anderson Cooper just asked Trump about bragging about sexual assault! (my paraphrase).

    • Mockingbird

      Relevant question.

      • Mymy88

        Ya think? I did not expect that at all. Wow! Pow!

  • Mymy88

    Okay, heeerrrreeee we go!

    ETA: Oh no, it’s on now. I hope they can get back on track and start talking about important issues soon or this is just going to be a nightmare debate.

    • Mymy88

      Oh God I cannot believe this!!!!! It’s really happening. This debate is so insane!

      • it’s really lame 🙂

        • pluvo

          Pathetic and a disgrace for the USA.

          • and this takes 2 years ha ha.. in my country it takes 2 weeks

            • Liberated

              It actually goes on for 4 years. The same day of inauguration it begins.
              Jan 20 2017 it will begin again.

            • good lord

            • Robert Eckert

              This time around it will begin November 9, 2016: just watch and see if I’m not right.

          • Mymy88

            In my opinion you are absolutely right!

  • Susan black

    He’s already sniffing…uh oh.

    • Mockingbird

      Constant sniffing. Why ?

      • Susan black

        I’d guess too much mucus. Excessive mucus equals anxiety. So say the docs.

  • Liberated

    Of course, it’s not his fault, now he’s already going after Bill. Sniff sniff.

    • Ella Raitch

      It’s just sickening. So he’s saying it’s ok because someone else did worse?!

      • Liberated

        Yep

    • Ella Raitch

      The expression he’s pulling while Hillary is talking is one I’ve been rehearsing for my role as Miss Andrew in Mary Poppins.

  • Liberated

    I know you are so what am I ? sniff sniff….sniff sniff.

  • Ella Raitch

    Switching off video and going to twitter – first comment
    “I’d rather be on hold with Comcast right now”

  • Frodis73

    He is so dumb, he cannot even answer a simple question straight.

  • Mymy88

    Okay, leveling out… they are debating about health care.

    • Frodis73

      You are gonna have plans, plans that are so good. The best.
      God how can anybody vote for this JOKE? He is seriously worst candidate ever.

      • Mymy88

        I can’t even.

  • Susan black

    While listening to trump, I find I’m anticipating his next sniff. They’re getting longer and deeper.

    • Stephanie Loving

      I can’t take it. Anticipating the next snogsnotsnort is making me physically ill.

    • MarcabExpat

      Husband pointed out that it subsides when he’s relaxed, but he seems to sniff more when nervous/telling a lie. He calls it “Donald’s Pinocchio sniff.”

  • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

    This man can barely string a sentence together.

    • Frodis73

      I know!!!!! I cannot believe this is the reality!!

  • Liberated

    Now he’s really pissing me off, Obama care saved my life. I lost everything when my husband died, now I have healthcare.
    My prescriptions are $1… my co-pay is $1. and my deduction is a lot less than anthem.
    In fact anthem was horrible.
    I didn’t think it was possible to hate this guy anymore than I already did, but I do.
    Sniff sniff.

    • Frodis73

      I am with you…I did not think I could hate somebody this much.

      • Liberated

        I can’t even sit still, I’m yelling at the tv, I’m walking all thru the house freaking out.
        He is one rotten SOB.
        What an orange asshole.
        Thank god for the bunker.

    • MarcabExpat

      Agreed. I had a friend who couldn’t get insurance, was diagnosed with breast cancer ***in her thirties*** exactly one week after Obamacare became active. She was terrified, didn’t know what to do. We walked her through getting a navigator appointment and she had insurance within a couple of weeks. Years later she’s cancer-free and bringing up an entrancing little girl. It literally saved her life and if it had come into force even a few months later I might not have her now.

      • PJK

        Healthcare should be a fundamental human right.

  • Mymy88

    Okay I can’t handle another second of this debate. I’m out. I’ll watch the reviews after it’s over. It’s just too effed up for words.

  • Susan black

    Can’t someone just give him a hanky?

    • Liberated

      I wish Bill Cosby would offer him a drink.
      I’m pissed.

    • Stephanie Loving

      Can’t stand the sound. The sound and the thought of his phlegm and fluids brings me to the brink of blackout.

  • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

    Did he just dare to claim that Humayun Khan would still be alive today had he been President when Captain Khan died? After rubbishing Mr and Mrs Khan, he’s now their retrospective saviour?

    • Susan black

      Yup, he’s said it before tonight. He has no shame.

      • Liberated

        Shame’s for losers.

    • LRH would have given him the status of Ka Khan!

    • Stephanie Loving

      gag

  • Jimmy3

    Kiss her already
    You’re a huge star

  • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

    I am always highly suspicious of people who refer to themselves in the third person.

    • Bobby Tolberto aka TDA

      So is he.

    • Jimmy3

      Ricardo is even more suspicious of the other third persons in Jimmy’s head.

      • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

        Uh-oh, there are more of you? 😛

    • Natleficent is also.

      • Jimmy3

        It must be really embarrassing to misspell your name in the third person.

    • Rasha

      Rasha is totally on board! ^_^

    • Harmless Weirdo

      I believe there is good reason to be suspicious. My father–a full-blown Narcissist–used to refer to himself in third person all the time. So did my very first serious boyfriend, who had some strong narcissistic tendencies. So did a couple of sleazy male co-workers I’ve had. I’m sure there are women who do it, but so far I’ve only encountered it in men.

      I’ve long since learned to recognize it as a sign of deep dishonesty, and as red flags go it’s a serious one for me. By using third person, they’re distancing themselves from their own thoughts, words, and/or actions–ascribing them to another person who just happens to share their name, or be called “your Dad,” or whatever. It’s a sign that they don’t want to take responsibility for what they are saying or doing–but they aren’t even aware they’re doing it.

      So yeah, you’d do well to trust that suspicion.

      • Graham

        Absolutely spot on.

  • Frodis73

    He is SOOOO dumb cos he says she has been in politics for over 30 years. But not really, she only became a senator around 2000. Plus, one senator can’t freaking just wave a wand and get stuff done. I HATE this orange freak.

  • Hamtaro

    Fact check: if Trump really makes $600+ million a year, like he claims for 2015, that $916 million loss would have been wiped out in two years. It wouldn’t offset his income for 18 years or anything like that.

    This debate is so unreal it could be the first episode of Mr. Robot Season 3.

    • Anonymouse

      Actually, Mr Robot as at least intelligent (to those of us that are fluent in geek) whereas no-one can understand Donald in any way shape or form.

  • Ella Raitch

    Someone just tweeted that Paul Ryan is sitting amongst the undecided voters bwahahahaha

  • Did he just state support for Asad?

  • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

    He sounds manic. He is so scattered.

    • My mouth is open — I can’t understand what he is saying. Can you?

      • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

        He’s incapable of completing a single sentence! It’s like a scatter-gun of 14 different subjects mashed together into a wall of disconnected words.

        • stanrogers

          It’s bad when all the voices in your head try to use the same mouth at the same time…

  • Liberated

    Trump has confessed the reason he owns beauty pageants is so he can look at naked contestants back stage. sniff…sniff.

  • Liberated

    Bill Maher is right, he’s a whiny little bitch.

    • Libertylover

      That’s what I was thinking but didn’t want to sink to level of name calling. Trump’s level not Bill’s , who says it best.

  • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

    Clinton calls her opposition “Donald”.
    Trump calls his opposition “her” or “she”.

    • Susan black

      Trump is deplorable. Sad.

      • Frodis73

        And he is totally irredeemable.

  • Hamtaro
    • MarcabExpat

      I don’t even understand what he meant by that.

      You see? Just reading a tweet by Michael Steele lowers my IQ.

      • Missionary Kid

        The party is blowing up.

  • Libertylover

    Trump’s a whiny little kid. He might be entertaining but he’s a juvenile that can’t be president.
    His Trump brand is going to tank after he loses the election.

    • Frodis73

      I am thrilled…I look forward to watching him tank.

      • Libertylover

        He should be Miscavige’s builder. Their architecture styles are so similar, gaudy bordello meets Saddam Hussein glitzy.

    • I feel sick not entertained.

      • Libertylover

        I was trying to be nice, he was successful at the apprentice. This politics thing is not him at all.

        • You be you, Boo.

        • Missionary Kid

          I thought The Apprentice was bullshit. It was a rich man’s game, with marketing gambits. All Trump is, is a marketer. What he sells now is his “brand”, which to look at, is trying to copy the Vatican without the historical artwork.

          There was very little business to be learned, other than sales. He’s a wealthier version of the Dianetics Douche who tries to sell everything 10X.

      • MarcabExpat

        Same here. Husband talked me into watching live instead of highlights, and I’m just nauseous.

  • What’sup
  • Susan black

    Creepy clown trump looks loaded.

  • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

    Love that last question!

  • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

    That was amazing. Now, America, will you please let me get some sleep?

    • Libertylover

      Historic to see a candidate threaten to put the other in jail if they win. Hard to believe this is happening!

      • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

        One of the biggest shocks for me was Trump’s admission that he hasn’t even spoken with Pence about Syria.

        • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

          And his misappropriation of the Khan family he so thoroughly derided. Also, does he even realise Captain Khan was killed during Bush’s Presidency?

          • Libertylover

            Of course he doesn’t. I said he’s lazy before because he doesn’t prepare or educate himself on the issues. He’d probably say because Hillary voted for the war and he wouldn’t have allowed it, if he were president. He was towering over her and getting in her space at a few points, creepy.

            • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

              Do you think he was trying to intimidate her? It felt uncomfortable to watch.

            • Libertylover

              I just think he lives in his bubble and it’s who he is. He doesn’t have to work at it or try.
              He likely believes woman aren’t serious as a fact and believes or sees them more as possessions or prizes. He doesn’t think a woman can be a politician but doesn’t think he’s a misogynist, just sees it as a FACT. Like Scientology, he’s stuck in the 1950’s

            • PJK

              What worries me more is that a large section of the American electorate is so lazy that they just take these statements at face value. That how “politicians” get away with these sorts of big lies.

              Look at Mike Pence’s performance last week. He so obviously lied when refuting facts presented about Trump by Tim Kaine that they even made a political ad about it, showing his denials next to the actual statements made by Trump.

              But he knows that a large percentage of the people watching the debate will not take the time and effort to check the facts nor will they ever see that ad which clearly shows his obvious lies, so he knows he can get away with it. The only thing that section of the public will remember is his calm demeanor compared to Tim Kaine’s more agitated appearance.

  • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

    WHY DIDN’T EITHER CANDIDATE IN THE DEBATE THANK CAPTAIN DAVID MISCAVIGE FOR OPENING 102,912 IDEAL ORGS TO CLEAR THIS PLANET!?

    http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e235/Swift77/DM2001.jpg

  • Jimmy3

    I feel confident that I came out of that debate a loser.

    • Ella Raitch

      You and over a million others

    • Mockingbird

      Next to Trump you look like an angel and big winner. Congratulations.

    • ^^^^^^

    • Rasha

      I dunno… I took a drink every time I said, “Yeah, but what about the question…?”

      …I’m good, right now…. time fer bed….

    • Vaquera

      True story: I had a dream last night that you and I were sitting on a park bench having lunch and discussing CoS while a pesky dragonfly was flitting around us. As it turned out, there was a teeny-tiny microphone attached to the insect’s leg and OSA was recording our every word.

      I gotta get another hobby.
      Oh yeah, fantasy football.

      • Jimmy3

        Was it the mic from Davey’s podium?

      • Juicer77

        I had a dream Observer “unfollowed” me here at the Bunker. O.o

    • UhLasare

      We all did.

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      Giants and Packers Jimmy. Look into it. 😀

      I went full NFL-ham yesterday. No more useless debates for me. Plus, watching Trump in any fashion makes me want to take a 9mm to the TV screen. Better safe than sorry I suppose.

  • What’sup
  • Rasha

    …so, will there be a debate after all this…?

    • Juicer77

      I went to bed. If I wanted to see a hot mess I can follow my dog to the backyard for his morning poop.

      • Rasha

        …which is a far more productive process, anyway…

    • Missionary Kid

      One more.

  • Hermesacat

    Is it true Trump’s likely the choice of most Scientologists*, the K.K.K., and Vladimir Putin? Deplorables? What deplorables?? *Tony, in his recent interview by Richard C. Hoagland, said something like most Scientologists he knew of are supporting Trump. And I recall ex-Scientologist Tory (Magoo) Christman has said Scientologists generally tend to vote Republican. Hey Trump supporters, you’re in “good” company! Congrats.

    • Nautius Maximus

      Chris Sheldon said that Scientologists tend towards Republicans too, although he also said they usually vote in the best interests of Scientology and not on ideology.

      I think it’s the same thing that attracts to people to cults that is drawing people to Trump – it’s the promise of certainty and easy answers. Just like the way people join cults at a time when they’re vulnerable, entire countries lurch to the right when its population suffers financially and is uncertain about the future. And it’s always a psychopath leading the movement, ready and willing to exploit people to feed their megalomania. Sad!

    • I don’t know who they vote for, but they lobby both sides with hooks crafted for each.

      Actual Scientologist politicians tend to be Republican.

      • Jimmy3

        My favorite are the sovereign citizen libertarians. So much delightful crazy.

        • Missionary Kid

          They are not delightful when they weapon up and start shooting.

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    “Doctor Donovan”? Where did this quack get his degree – Sequoia University???
    (refresh)

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c63c06c7575d101a6a713141f7ca820b5f99c151b7a616b89814353a832d979a.png

    • stanrogers

      I’m going to giggle myself half to death thinking of that as one of those insults that takes a long, long, long, long time to sink in.

  • Jack99
  • Jimmy3

    I miss Mitt. That guy really knew how to handle his rich white guy lunacy.

  • Intergalactic Walrus
    • How can they continue up that side of the bridge when the Saint Hill Special Briefing Course is gone?

      You can’t be one of the most valuable beings on the planet if you’re not a Duke of the Auditor Elite! (Hubbard personally said that without the SHSBC, it’s not Scientology!)

    • Juicer77

      Apparently he’s not valuable just the way he is… Sigh…

  • coonellie

    Sort of OT: Baby C came home from work and asked if I saw the debate. “What debate?”
    “So you didn’t watch?”
    Me: When there’s an accident on the freeway do I slow down?

  • Gwen

    Everything in this article is correct, this reporter did his homework properly! They have a high rate for success for narconon…I call bull…student confidentially is there or there would be so much more. Also you would think that high success rate would definitely be in tack for the staff….14 staff deaths this year I don’t call success. I call it very out ethics and corporate office had a huge withhold that every Executive Director rather look the other way then to solve this problem and get the program back to actually working again saving lives. I know this …I was a student, intern and staff at o e point in time.