SUPPORT THE UNDERGROUND BUNKER
You can either make a one-time donation to the site via Paypal...

...or you can subscribe and get billed monthly:

FOLLOW ME ON
SUBSCRIBE TO OUR
E-MAIL LIST
To join our e-mail list & get daily updates on new stories, e-mail us at newstory@tonyortega.org.
RSS Feed
Click here to add The Underground Bunker to your RSS Reader

Laying to rest the obfuscations of L. Fletcher Prouty, Scientology’s conspiracist-for-hire

Jon_Atack3Jon Atack is the author of A Piece of Blue Sky, one of the very best books on L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology. He has a new edition of the book for sale, and for more than three years he’s been helping us sift through the legends, myths, and contested facts about Scientology that tend to get hashed and rehashed in books, articles, and especially on the Internet.

I want to expand on an earlier post about Leroy Fletcher Prouty, Scientology’s hired gun, who managed to trick many people into believing that L. Ron Hubbard was active in US Navy Intelligence.

My first task on leaving the mother cult was to understand why the friendly group to which I thought I had belonged for nine years had turned so very sour. The “dead-agent” pack produced by Scientology about me says that I objected to the “tough and ruthless” attitude of the new leadership. I did and I still do.

It is necessary to be tough at times, but there is no excuse for ruthlessness. “Ruth” means mercy, and without it we are like Genghis Khan, who piled up mounds of skulls just because he could. Ruthlessness is the defining quality of a psychopath.

And, yes, it was Midshipman Miscavige who used the expression “tough and ruthless” at the 1982 Mission Holders’ Conference, and he was telling the truth: Where mainstream religions speak of compassion and mercy, Scientology is indeed tough and ruthless.

My collection started with a few cassette tapes from defecting Scientologists – Jon Zegel was particularly informative. The trickle soon became an inundation: I still have a box of cassettes, and my paper collection now fills more than 50 filing cabinet drawers. And that isn’t counting the hundreds of books and tapes.

I pride myself on the extensive footnotes to my work – there are over a thousand notes in Let’s sell these people A Piece of Blue Sky, and my published papers are usually studded with notes. I do this so that anyone can check my sources: you don’t have to take my word for it. When Professor Martin Poulter first visited me, 20 years back, he said that I outstripped even his Oxford dons when it came to footnoting: High praise indeed!

I do my level best to be accurate. I also try to be amenable to correction (though I prefer it to be courteous, if you please).

I’m not quite sure when L. Fletcher Prouty took his first paycheck from Scientology, but he burst into my life when he attacked Russell Miller’s Bare-Faced Messiah.

Russell had hired me as a researcher when he began work on his excellent Sunday Times series, back at the beginning of 1986. I’d given up on finding a publisher for A Piece of Blue Sky (called “Hubbard through the Looking Glass” in Russell’s first edition), so I handed it over to Russell, and his own splendid book used mine as a foundation.

It should be pointed out that Russell and his wife Renate did wonderful research (some of which benefited Blue Sky when it was finally published). Russell’s interviews were remarkable (transcripts of some are posted at Dave Touretsky’s site – one day I’ll maybe have time to put the rest up somewhere). I have all of the material he assembled, and it is impressive.

Russell spoke with Hubbard’s aunt, Margaret Roberts, one of his schoolfellows, girlfriend Barbara Klowden, various pre-Dianetic aquaintances, Hubbard’s literary agent Forrest Ackerman and Hubbard’s second child, Catherine Gillespie.

 
fletcher_prouty

[L. Fletcher Prouty[

 
Russell and Renate also dug out rare documents. I’d found the Montana Historical Society for details about the Waterbury “ranch” and dug out all the available government records, but Miller found such delightful details as the ship’s log showing that Hubbard really was aboard a ship with Commander “Snake” Thompson when he was 12 years old (quite rare for a Hubbard story to check out, actually, though many were vastly exaggerated from real events).

Russell’s work was painstaking. He already had a reputation as a biographer, and was one of Britain’s leading investigative journalists. He told me last year that the Hubbard biography took more work than anything else he had done in his long and illustrious career: Which included detailed biographies of Hefner, Getty, and Conan Doyle (my favourite).

I proofed Bare-Faced Messiah prior to publication – there was very little to alter, because Russell has such exacting standards and had already quizzed me thoroughly (though it did introduce me to the word “foudroyant,” which I may one day find a use for).

I worked with lawyers Carter-Ruck to defend against Scientology’s attempt to restrain the book in England, and was acknowledged as an expert witness by the court against the howls of Scientology. The attempt to prevent publication failed.

Russell was targeted by L. Fletcher Prouty for his statements about Hubbard’s lackluster war record. Hubbard, as we know, claimed to be a much-decorated war hero. Most importantly, he claimed to have cured himself of war wounds with his Dianetics.

In 1965, in “My Philosophy,” Hubbard asserted that during WWII he was “Blinded with injured optic nerves, and lame with physical injuries to hip and back.” He claimed to be “permanently disabled physically.”

With Hubbard’s death in 1986 his service records became available. I think I was the first to use the Freedom of Information Act to scoop them up. I have the Navy record, the Veterans Administration record, the FBI record, as well as his father Harry Ross Hubbard’s Navy records. This amounts to about 2,000 pages, and I’ve read the lot at least three times from start to finish.

The records do not support Hubbard’s later claims to heroism or war wounds. He did not see action against the enemy – he was in Australia when Darwin was attacked by the Japanese, he fought a two-day battle against a magnetic deposit off the coast of Oregon, and he caused a minor international incident by shelling the Mexican Los Coronados Islands, but that is the closest he came to actual warfare.

In contrast, Prouty had a distinguished career in the US Air Force and the Intelligence services. Under Kennedy, he was the Chief of Special Operations for the Joint Chiefs of Staff. He later became a severe critic of the CIA.

The character Mr. X in Oliver Stone’s JFK is based upon Prouty, who advised Stone. Prouty believed that the assassination was part of a coup d’etat.

Prouty’s reputation rightly suffered damage because of his association with the anti-Semitic, right wing Liberty Lobby and the holocaust-denying Institute for Historical Review. He was on the advisory board of the Liberty Lobby’s Populist Action Committee, but claimed that he was “merely a writer in need of a platform.” (Wikipedia)

In one of his many letters pouring scorn on Hubbard’s critics, Prouty said, “I was approached by a law firm from Great Britain many years ago…I was a retired AF [Air Force] Colonel, a banker, and then was employed by AMTRAK because of my interest in the railroad…” (Prouty to Patrick Jost, 8 July 1995).

In a 1987 letter to Miller’s publisher, Prouty said he was first approached “ten years ago or more,” dating the association to 1977 or even earlier, which would mean that he was first hired by the Guardian’s Office, before Gerry Armstrong even began the Archive Project.

When The Age in Australia asked for Prouty’s documentation of his claims about Hubbard’s intelligence service, he told them that he would require $1,000 up front with an additional $500 a day (Prouty to The Age, 14 July 1988). This is probably the rate paid by Scientology for his opinion over the years: a nice little earner, as we say in the UK.

Amazon in the UK carries a tantalizing advertisement for “L. Ron Hubbard’s Authorized Biography” by Prouty (publication date August 1990: “not currently available”).

Prouty was a master of the “noisy investigation,” and made vicious allegations against anyone who criticized Hubbard. Writing to Russell Miller’s UK publishers, Michael Joseph, he said: “There is a regular ‘Dog and Pony’ show that had been put together by unscrupulous principals and their lawyers who intended to get rich suing and defaming Mr. Hubbard and the Church of Scientology. To do that they had collected, trained and financed a selected group of dissidents from the Church…and used them in many courts, on TV and in the media to tell stories that have been fabricated or warped from the inexperience, venality and immaturity of their court-room puppeteers.” (Prouty, 4 October 1987).

Prouty has a real OSA bluster about him, attacking critics as if they were immoral halfwits. He goes on to call Gerry Armstrong a “shameless puppet,” having dismissed Russell Miller as a “minion.”

Prouty claimed special knowledge of Hubbard’s Navy files, insisting that Hubbard worked for the Office of Naval Intelligence and that the available files have been falsified to conceal the “deep intelligence” work that Hubbard did during WWII. He says that the procedure is called “sheep dipping” and was a commonplace during his tenure in Intelligence.

I did not dismiss Prouty’s claims – at least those about Hubbard: I knew that Russell was no one’s “minion” and that Gerry was no one’s “puppet” – but I took all claims about Hubbard very seriously, so I went back through the records to check Prouty’s criticisms.

Prouty said that because he was in the military during WWII, he understood the records better than those of us who had not even been born at the time. So, I sat down with a former naval officer whose service was far closer to Hubbard’s than Prouty’s had been. This man had joined the US Navy, as Hubbard did, before Pearl Harbor. We were able to compare his records to Hubbard’s.

We made a thorough analysis of Prouty’s complaints and found every one of them lacking. We decided to keep this work to ourselves, because we hoped that Prouty would be brought into court as an expert witness. It would be better to shoot him down in flames, we thought, so that he would have to withdraw and stop spouting his venomous nonsense.

When I retired from the Scientology scene, early in 1996, our analysis remained unpublished. Ever since I started blogging at the glorious Bunker, I’ve meant to mention Prouty and this analysis, but as I rightly feared, even to make this brief statement has taken hours rooting around in my files.

Russell Miller rightly points out (and I see that Wikipedia agrees) that no one would create the now publicly available file to conceal deep intelligence work: If a “sheep-dipped” top file were to be created, it would surely not lambast Hubbard as incompetent, page after page, year in and year out. It would be a simple, anodyne account of worthy service. So, the sheep dip hypothesis dies where it stands, but Prouty may still be believed by some.

In August 1987, BBC Radio 4 aired Ruthless Adventure – the Lives of L. Ron Hubbard. Presenter Margaret Percy had approached me 18 months before and I was paid a consultancy fee (£75, I think), but six months before broadcast, Percy told me the show had been dropped. She didn’t contact me again, and while she was largely correct (and negative) in her view of Hubbard, she did swallow Prouty’s bait, and she swallowed it whole.

We were informed, just as Prouty claimed, that Hubbard had worked in US Navy Intelligence. The confusion arises in early orders given to Hubbard – and available in the file – where Hubbard is indeed appointed as an “intelligence officer.”

Curiously, Prouty himself exhibited the document that demonstrates what was meant by an “intelligence officer.” It is an order from the Vice Chief of Naval Operations dated 16 April 1942. It transfers Hubbard to the Office of the Cable Censor in New York and explains “In view of the fact that the Censorship Organization is no longer under the cognizance of the Director of Naval Intelligence, it is recommended that he [Hubbard] be transferred from Class I-V(S) to a Class more appropriate to the duties he is to perform.”

At the outbreak of WWII, an “intelligence officer” was assigned to censor mail as a principal duty. He would also be expected to teach classes in recognition of friendly and enemy ships and aircraft. Hubbard had been sent to Australia with these duties. On his return, as this order makes clear, he was assigned to the Cable Censor, because he was not active in Naval Intelligence.

Prouty claims that Hubbard was involved in “deep cover” work throughout the war, but fails to check this against Hubbard’s own claims, which strongly support the account given in the Navy records. Indeed, Scientology produced Thomas Moulton to support its case against Gerry Armstrong, back in 1984. Moulton’s testimony agreed entirely with the Navy record – they had fought a 55-hour battle off the Oregon coast against a known magnetic deposit on the ocean floor and gone on to shell the Los Coronados Islands, for which Hubbard was censured.

After his investigation, Rear Admiral Braisted put the following into Hubbard’s record: “Consider this officer lacking in the essential qualities of judgment, leadership and cooperation. He acts without forethought as to probable results. He is believed to have been sincere in his efforts to make his ship efficient and ready. Not considered qualified for command or promotion at this time. Recommend duty on a large vessel where he can be properly supervised.” Rather a strange thing to invent for a much-decorated war hero’s phony “sheep-dipped” folder.

My retired naval officer friend and I went through Prouty’s material with a fine-tooth comb and we found it wanting. There was no single instance of an Intelligence operation: Not even a hint – just vague generalizations on Prouty’s part.

When it came to significant details, Prouty proved himself inexpert. For instance, when presented with a fake set of separation orders for Hubbard, Prouty accepted them and insisted that the claim to two purple hearts showed that Hubbard really had been a hero. This is the most important of all the documents that Prouty presented.

Now, the purple heart is only awarded for injuries received in combat. The first difficulty is that Hubbard only claimed one wound – he said he had been machine-gunned when the destroyer Edsall was sunk and that after this injury he had rowed his way to Australia (about 800 miles). In fact, he was actually never on board the Edsall, and no one could row that far after being riddled with machine gun bullets. His arrival in Australia was via more conventional means, as the record demonstrates.

Prouty credulously reports Ray Kemp’s account of shrapnel falling out of Hubbard’s shirt as proof of these wounds. Kima Douglas, who was Hubbard’s personal nurse, testified at the Armstrong case that Hubbard had no scars on his back where the machine-gun bullets had supposedly struck: shrapnel but no scars?

Prouty – dismissing all others and claiming his own expertise – failed to notice the anomaly in the fake separation orders: It is claimed that Hubbard’s second purple heart was in the form of a “palm,” but additional decorations come in the form of either a cluster or a star. Prouty failed to notice that the orders are forged. They also say he commanded the USS Howland – to which we could find no reference.

Hubbard only began to claim heroism after founding Scientology. In an interview with Look magazine, published in December 1950, Hubbard said he was hospitalized at Oak Knoll for a year, suffering from “ulcers, conjunctivitis, deteriorating eyesight, bursitis and something wrong with my feet.” Save for the problem with his feet, the other conditions are all attested by the official Navy record (in the Affirmations, Hubbard gave himself the hypnotic affirmation: “You have perfect and lovely feet,” but nothing about war wounds).

One thread that runs through Prouty’s own shameful puppetteering is the assertion that the number “16” on Hubbard’s records indicates his service in Intelligence. Yet, about every 100 pages in those very records there is a code sheet which gives “16” as the designation for a naval reserve officer.

It proved easy enough to check this: The retired naval officer who helped me to check the records showed me his own records. His orders also carried the number “16,” yet he had never served in Intelligence and he was – yes, you guessed it – a naval reserve officer.

I grew used to the Scientology method – damn the source with the wildest allegations you can find and sneer at every point. Elsewhere, this method is called an ad hominem attack and it can be extraordinarily nasty. I’ve been accused of attempted murder, rape, child abuse, heroin addiction and more by Scientologists over the years. There is no basis for any of these allegations, but that doesn’t stop them from being made.

I find all of that misemotion – the blame, shame and regret of the Scientology operative – wearying and unproductive; I would much rather have a friendly conversation over a cup of rooibos tea. But then, I can communicate freely with anyone on any subject, a benefit denied to Scientologists by their own dogma.

L. Fletcher Prouty followed L. Ron Hubbard into the afterlife in 2001. It is a shame that he undid his own credibility so thoroughly for a few thousand dollars from Scientology. But, as Hubbard said, ‘Truth blows the lies away.’

 
——————–

Chris Shelton in conversation with Ross and Carrie

 
——————–

Bonus items from our tipsters

Thank you, Pete Griffiths, for this item confirming the date for this year’s big IAS gala in East Grinstead, England…

 
ias2016

 
——————–

3D-UnbreakablePosted by Tony Ortega on September 10, 2016 at 07:00

E-mail tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Our book, The Unbreakable Miss Lovely: How the Church of Scientology tried to destroy Paulette Cooper, is on sale at Amazon in paperback and Kindle editions. We’ve posted photographs of Paulette and scenes from her life at a separate location. Reader Sookie put together a complete index. More information about the book, and our 2015 book tour, can also be found at the book’s dedicated page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of L.A. attorney and former church member Vance Woodward
UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists
GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice
SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

Other links: Shelly Miscavige, ten years gone | The Lisa McPherson story told in real time | The Cathriona White stories | The Leah Remini ‘Knowledge Reports’ | Hear audio of a Scientology excommunication | Scientology’s little day care of horrors | Whatever happened to Steve Fishman? | Felony charges for Scientology’s drug rehab scam | Why Scientology digs bomb-proof vaults in the desert | PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer | The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill | Scientology boasts about assistance from Google | The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

Share Button
Print Friendly, PDF & Email
  • Draco

    It’s after 1am here – I am off to bed. Night night everyone xxx

    • Rasha

      *shnuggle*

  • Hubbard was machine-gunned. LOL. He would write a whole new set of Affirmations after surviving that shit. Hell, even after being shot with 9mm.

  • April Moonlight

    Ok, regarding the discussion about whether or not Tony Ortega is an “expert” on Scientology, not having ever been a member of the Church of Scientology. I and many other people have learned soooooo much from articles here at Tony Ortega’s. Information is organized and summarized in a straightforward manner, citing valid references and sources, verified by contributors who have been involved with the Church of Scientology. I prefer to get my information this way, from a journalist (Tony Ortega) with no history of being in the Church, no conflicted feelings, seeing the subject with clear eyes and emotions, and has no personal stake in this matter, therefore no bias. I appreciate the honest summary of information, I feel I can trust Tony Ortega’s reporting. In so many articles he proves up issues that have been in question, such as this June 2014 matter of OT levels: http://tonyortega.org/2014/06/24/up-the-bridge-we-finally-reach-ot-8-but-was-its-first-version-really-a-hoax/ I haven’t found anywhere else that gave me this particular info, backed up with good reliable sources. He gathers up stuff from many sources and presents it here, his articles are accurate, fair, informative – I’d say yes he is an expert. We should also remember that the C of S has a history of retaliation towards those who write about them, carried out on a personal level (in fact it’s part of their doctrines) so that Ortega does what he does at risk to himself, to bring this information to the public. “Our liberty depends on the freedom of the press, and that cannot be limited without being lost.” – Thomas Jefferson. Thanks for all you do, Tony Ortega.

    • Lucille Austero

      ^^^this ❤❤❤

    • Missionary Kid

      One thing to add is that most $cientologists have no idea of what goes on in $cientology beyond their immediate experience. I will give Marty Mark the credit for being around at the top of $cientology, but I will criticize him in that I feel he still has a lot of the $cientology blinders on.

      IMO, Marty Mark is pretty thin skinned, and has a habit of conflating people who post here with Tony, as well as taking legitimate questions or speculations about his actions as an attack. It’s a Trump thing.

    • Juicer77

      Tony also accepts and uses legitimate correction and criticism.

  • Mockingbird

    Regarding the expert title it’s a trap. If you in any way say you are an expert you just look like an asshole. It’s a title someone else can put on you but you never look good claiming it for yourself. I have met a few people that have to work saying “I have two master’s degrees” or I have two doctorates” or “I have a law degree” into EVERY conversation they are ever involved with.

    You can be talking to another person about anything else and they still work everything around to point out their degrees.

    • Missionary Kid

      The really good pilots that I’ve met, including a retired two star general who was a pilot flying the U-2, and SR-71, and ultimately the wing commander for the SR-71, don’t brag. If asked if he’s a pilot, his reply is something like, “I’ve flown some.” I’d known him for at least a year when I found out he’d even been in the Air Force. IMO, he makes TC, and his supposed Top Gun character look like a wuss.

      • Captain MustSavage

        Check out how Douglas Faurbanks Jnr responds to a query about the danger of his wartime exploits. He was involved in some genuinely thrilling and dangerous action during the war and his response is exactly as you describe. The relevant stuff is a couple of minutes in.

        https://youtu.be/282ZWaxMMiQ

        • Missionary Kid

          Holy Shit! Did you notice who was to the left of Fairbanks? Janis Joplin. To the right of Dick Cavett is Raquel Welch.

          My Welch quote, “The most erogenous zone of the body is the mind.”

          • Captain MustSavage

            Sure – must have been a great nights entertainment that night.

            Fairbanks answered the war query with incredible grace, I think. A stark comparison to the outright lies and boasting Hubbard engaged in.

          • Snippy_X

            That was awesome. He allowed his guests to completely answer the questions.

            • Missionary Kid

              He just had a retrospective on PBS of his coverage of the Nixon cover-up and impeachment. He really is an excellent interviewer and a gentle, self-deprecating soul.

      • Mockingbird

        I have a good family friend in his late eighties. I knew him for many years before he helped me out with an introduction to someone. I spent an afternoon alone with the friend and we drove by an airfield. He told me has flown. I eventually drew out of him the information that he has flown for over forty years and flew bombers in World War II. He has a lot of experience but if we hadn’t gone on a trip together and I had not asked questions I would never have ever known he flew. Then if I hadn’t asked a lot more I wouldn’t have found out he flew so much.

        He went years and years helping our family with a number of matters and never bragged about anything he has done.

        • Missionary Kid

          I used to say that confidence is when you don’t worry about it. If someone is good, they don’t have to prove it to anyone.

          • Mockingbird

            In some professions proving it is part of the job. Acting, sports, music and other professions where opinions limit opportunities are tough.

            Lots of great college athletes never get a chance in the pros. Some have phenomenal statistics and winning records and never get a tryout.

            Sometimes you constantly have to prove your ability.

            • Missionary Kid

              That is true, but remember that the professional level and college are separated by huge differences in ability, and what the pros are looking for. There are tryouts and usually minor league or other resources.

              A good actor doesn’t have to be an asshole or tell you how good they are when they aren’t acting. Same with musicians. Their work is their proof, not what they say about their capabilities.

              The proving is in the performance, not in bullshitting about how good they are.

        • Robert Eckert

          Procopius left us a great firsthand written account of a dangerous diplomatic mission to the court of Attila the Hun. When he was admitted to the great hall, he saw all the Hunnish chiefs eating off silver plates and drinking wine out of gold goblets, dressed in gaudy robes using cloth of gold and purple dye, and wearing a lot of jewelled bracelets and rings– except for one guy eating a kind of oatmeal mush out of a wooden bowl and drinking water out of a wooden cup, dressed in a clean but plain brown robe. He suddenly realized that this was Attila, who had nothing to prove to anyone.

          • Missionary Kid

            Great story.

          • Mockingbird

            Every once in a while I meet someone that fits this. It might be a business owner or manager. I recently met several white collar executives who were in a class and many wore T shirts and shorts. I know a store manager at a grocery store who comes in on his day off in a T shirt and shorts.

            I have met a few business owners that wear jeans and a nice but not expensive shirt. Several are millionaires.

            In some businesses managers in a polo shirt and jeans make six or seven figures and their job performance is all that matters to their employer. Some salespeople wear very unimpressive outfits but sell a lot of product and get the most respect from their management.

            I have even seen attorneys and engineers in very plain clothes. Honestly other than court appearances some attorneys dress very plainly. They can still be very competent and successful.

        • Juicer77

          The UnCardone.

          • Mockingbird

            Ha.

        • I once worked in a old people’s home for a few months, covering for someone who was taking maternity leave.

          One old chap used to give me money to buy chocolate for him, on the way to work. He liked a very particular brand. We talked some, and he said. in passing, that he had been a pilot.

          A few years later, I saw his obituary in the paper. He had piloted Spitfires and fought in the Battle of Britain, but never mentioned that little detail.

          • Mockingbird

            Yeah, some people don’t brag. Even though they had unique experiences and great adventures.

          • Missionary Kid

            “Never was so much owed by so many to so few,” – Winston Churchill on the pilots of the Battle of Britain.

            • It really was one of those knife-edge historical turning points. At one time every serviceable fighter was in the air.

              If the RAF had lost, Operation Sea-lion would gone ahead, and a Nazi army would have come across the channel in flat-bottomed boats. History would have been quite different.

            • Missionary Kid

              I was at the Oshkosh fly-in and happened to go to a forum on the Rolls Royce Merlin engine. I thought it would be boring. It wasn’t. I learned that it was designed by Sir Rolls, who was quite ill and worked from home, and was financed by Lady Houston for competition in the Schneider Trophy for a plane that Mitchell, the designer of the spit, used in the race.

              The Hurricane, also powered by the Merlin, shot down more German aircraft than the Spit, but the Spit, with its superior speed, could keep up with the German Me 109.

              If it wasn’t for those two people, we might be speaking a lot more German today.

            • The hurricanes were a transitional technology – they still used fabric and dope in places. They were the RAF’s workhorse.

              The Spitfire, as you say was more of an elite interceptor. Hand build and beautiful – I’ve seen the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight a few times, and its outline is quite distinctive.

              In the xenophobic aftermath of Brexit I’m also reminded that the RAF was running out of pilots, and would likely have lost if it were not for the contributions of the Polish ( a whole squadron) now looked down upon as foreign workers.

              Americans, Canadians and a few who went on to become Israelis also fought for us on that day.

            • Missionary Kid

              The Hurricanes were easier to build, so they could build a lot more of them. They were also easier to repair.

              The Hurricanes became an excellent ground support attack plane because of their 4 20mm cannon and ability to carry bombs.

              The Spitfire’s wing spars had an elegant design: Square tubing of varying sizes nestled inside one another, with the longest and smallest extending out to the wing tip. If you overstressed the wing by pulling too many G’s, it couldn’t be repaired because the tubing would become jammed inside one another. The wing had to be thrown away.

              One of the top American aces, Francis Stanley “Gabby” Gabreski, got himself assigned to a Polish squadron after pearl Harbor, in 1942, to learn techniques from the Polish pilots. He went on to become an ace both in WWII and Korea.

              There was one pilot who shot down Me 109s in Spritfires, during WWII, then Spitfires in Me 109s, flying for Israel.

            • Missionary Kid

              Later versions of the Hurricane had 40 mm cannons that made them good tank killers.

    • kemist

      If someone tells me they have two doctorates, I ask them how much they suck to be unable to even find a postdoc.

      When you know what doing one of these damn things means, you know no one in their right mind would choose to do that twice.

      • Mockingbird

        Ha, some academics would turn bright red if you said that in front of them. It’s almost like telling a Flag trained auditor or supervisor or anything they don’t know anything true about the mind.

  • Len Zinberg

    There’s no doubt that Hubbard was a fraudulent war hero.
    What still perplexes me, however, is the years long symbiotic relationship between Scientology and the lunatic fringe, far right, Willis Carto.

    Carto, who founded the Liberty Lobby, was deemed too extreme even for the John Birch Society, and was ultimately ousted by an OT 8 Scientologist, Tom Marcellus, who continued the dark, conspiratorial, and anti-semitic tropes that the Liberty Lobby had been known for since the mid-1950’s.
    The cooperative history between these two groups, Scientology and the Liberty Lobby; their mutual interests and support for one another warrant a much closer and fuller examination.

    Thank you, Jon Atack, for exposing Prouty, with surgical precision, as an unreliable paid apologist and obfuscator.

    • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

      That’s a paper or chapter to do someday.

      I winched at the Bircher stuff Hubbard obviously was into. One old OEC/FEBC student, Hank Laarhius (sp) was even a Commodore’s Staff Aide in traininng, he gave me a copy of his subscribed magazine, “American Opinion” once, and a then GO guy gave me a copy of “Spotlight” both extreme right wing conspiracy stuff, and the understanding was Hubbard’s thinking was the same level.

      On the PAC RPF, even the OSA Int staff Gigi Scudilari mentioned the Opus Dei like that was the model that OSA today is parallel to, some sort of protector of the Scientology movement in the same way as Opus Dei.

      I mean the Scientologist top Sea Orgers have held Hubbard similar wacky conspiracy stuff.

      I guess that’s par for this type of isoloated group.

      What is also so unbelievably understudied is the Sea Org’s unique form of communism. Sea Org is stridently communistic, flat out extremist religious commune group style. Group berthing, group meals, group playtime/entertainment-time, group group group activities of the Sea Orgers in the “team” extreme! Ultra communistic! Worse than Russian Communist pay/allowances, that’s for sure!

      • Missionary Kid

        I read American Opinion in high school (graduated in very early 60’s). I also used to read the Communist Worker’s Party rag. Both were great examples of conspiracy theories. The Koch brother’s dad was one of the John Birch Society’s founders, along with Robert Welch, of Welch’s grape juice fame, and Revilo P. Oliver (his first and last names make up a palindrome).

        The Birch society, with Oliver in it, had a lot of white supremecist leanings. Both the CWP and the JBS were nuts. Sometimes, their viewpoints actually were quite similar.

        I would say that while the sea org is quite communal, it isn’t communistic, because none of them, as a group or an individual, owns, or has a piece of $cientology assets. I would call Co$ a fascistic organization. Hence, the right wing tendencies. At least in theoretical Communism, they talk about a vote. In $cientology, there is no vote.

        • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

          Great comments. Hey, question. Are there any fascist communal groups in history or any today?

          Any fascist communal groups that work, eat and sleep in the same building, as a group?

          Would Catholic nuns/monks monestaries be more fascistic or communistic?

          • Missionary Kid

            My training is as an economist. I look at economic systems. Both communism and fascism, in terms of actual practice, actually are very authoritarian. The major difference is how the ownership of property is worked out. In Communism, supposedly everyone owns everything together, however, in Fascism, private ownership supposedly is encouraged, but in practice, it has been the wealthy and corporations that have had control.

            To me, there is a big difference between communal and communist. Communal is a way of shared living, communist is a communal system enforced by government.

            Fascism is, “an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.” I would say that some militia groups and white power groups fall into this category when they end up living in guarded compounds. They are fascistic, living in communes.

            The Catholic nuns/monks are neither fascist nor communist they are a social system, not a government one. They are communal, but not communist. The workers have usually taken vows of poverty, and they share in tasks and rewards. They are beholden to the church to take care of them, but they are also able to leave, and often do, and their health care and old age is taken care of.

            The difference between the voluntary vows of poverty that the nuns/monks take and the sea org is that the nuns or monks can leave any time they want.

            The sea org also has long term commitments (billion year contracts), but to leave takes extreme measures to avoid the coercion that amounts to false imprisonment. The sea org arbitrarily assigns the amount of financial reward that the sea org workers receive, and there’s very little health care available. Contracts are signed by minors, which is illegal, and all sorts of arbitrary control is exercised on them. They have shared living, but not shared resources.

      • Len Zinberg

        When did that occur, Chuck? In ’71-72 the only non-Scientology book for sale at the NY Org was None Dare Call it Conspiracy by Gary Wills. The Spotlight was even nuttier, by several orders of magnitude.

        • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

          I remember 1978ish Hank Laarhius the then in training Commodore’s Staff Aide forget his zone, he offered me a copy of his “American Opinion” of which he multiple copies. And then from the GO guy who gave me a copy of Spotlight, that was same time, 78-79ish. I read Spotlight since it jived with Freedom Mag’s conspiratorial GO outlook,and LRH’s all things Rockefeller/psychs destroying world civilization and Scientology being all proud of being on Nixon’s hit list. So much misinformation in my horribly uneducated feeble mind, I wince and shudder realizing I even read that stuff, straining to understand it’s logic in the same way Hubbard’s GO people found truth in Spotlight’s world coverage. That same GO person also had a copy of Lyndon Larouche’s super expensive Intelligence mag that had the wildest conspiracy stuff in it too. The old Flag GO library or their personal bookshelves and intel sources back then and all through those years would have been interesting to list out today.

          The GO’s and today’s OSA’s intel accumulating staffs minds must be exposed, I hope one or another of them reveal their thinking based on their reading sources. Pretty sick diet of misinformation the GO and then OSA data intel gatherer’s had for reading.

          NONE of this was in the bookstore, all this was staff to staff passing of what mags the old GO people I casually knew were reading, and people like Hank who was Sea Org staff in the staff course room where I was course supervisor. Politics rarely comes up but when Hubbard’s writings that Sea Orgers or GO type people were studying comes up, then it’s that kind of reading materials that back up Hubbard’s thinking. Those people in Sea Org history and GO history and today’s OSA history who are on those lines, read that crap.

          Today’s Intel Branch of OSA Int, I wonder what they read!

  • Captain MustSavage

    If this story is true, how pathetic would you have to be to ban your ex spouse from dating someone else publicly for the next FIVE YEARS? How long was it before Nicole started dating publicly again? Seemed a fair while. Perhaps that’s a standard clause in a Cruise divorce settlement.

    Reports also indicate that the divorce settlement stipulations prevent Holmes from dating anyone publicly through that same five-year period, meaning Katie’s efforts to keep a romance with J
    Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/3493727/katie-holmes-to-spill-scientology-secrets-in-2017/#QCH5Z54iUO8RrRGj.99

    • Missionary Kid

      We’ll see if it’s true when the 5 years are up.

      • Captain MustSavage

        She may choose to remain silent as Nicole has. A classier response but we’ll all be waiting for the end of career tell all.

    • Juicer77

      What a load of hooey. No court in the law would uphold an inhumane action like this. Once the divorce is finalized what each person does with their romantic life is NONE OF THE COURT’S BUSINESS.

      • Missionary Kid

        IANAL, but my understanding is that the divorce settlement is a contract. The divorce court simply acknowledges that a settlement has been reached, and that property has been divided.

        That contract, or others that were negotiated, may have all sorts of agreements that have nothing to do with getting a divorce.

        The contract may have clauses that, in return for compensation, a party can agree to certain conditions. If they violate those conditions, the other party can go to court and sue to get their money back, plus penalties that may be set forth in the contract.

        What those conditions may be is entirely up to the people who entered into the contract, and those conditions can be very silly, but one person has agreed to pay the other for that behavior and the other has agreed to those conditions in order to get the money.

        Katie got something like 5 million, plus other support. If there is a non-disclosure agreement, and she violated it, Tommy boy can go to court and demand repayment.

        Depending on the contract, her disclosure could be VERY expensive. It’s not a matter of divorce law, but contract law, and any court with jurisdiction can be called upon to enforce the contract.

        • Juicer77

          Disclosure clauses are common in celebrity marriages. But to demand that she not DATE for five years? Completely ridiculous. None of the court’s or her ex’s business.

          • Missionary Kid

            No, it’s none of the ex’s business, but anything can be written into a contract, unless it’s illegal. Remember, TC and $cientology are completely ridiculous.

            If such a stipulation is in the divorce agreement, I’m sure he paid well for it. Hell, we could enter into a contract that says that you will, for a million dollars from me, not have sex for 3 months, and if you break the agreement, you have to pay me a million dollars. We don’t have to be married to have such a contract. It’s not any court’s business unless the terms are violated, and you have sex during the 3 months and don’t pay up, or if you honor the agreement and don’t get paid when you’re supposed to, to violate the contract. Then, the party who didn’t follow the contract could be sued by the other party by taking the other person to court, and, with proper proof, the losing party would have have to pay up. Often, the losing party has to pay for the winner’s legal fees, too

            A contract is valid if some consideration is offered, the person who receives the consideration has agreed to the terms, and is then obligated to follow the terms of the agreement. One of the few things that would invalidate such a contract are that an illegal act was called for, or the person offering the consideration doesn’t pay up.

            Ask a real attorney.

  • Hamtaro

    The Saint Hiller: the only publication more boring than Traffic Light Quarterly and Carpet Installers Review…

    “Ed sends us a pic showing the way his new grey shag stretches all the way to the exact corner of the room!”
    “Breaking news: Mike reports a new blinking red was installed at the intersection of Walsh Rd and Findley Way!”
    “Live IAS Anniversary Event 7 October 2016!”

    • JaxNGold

      Hilarious!

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      Yarn Monthly – September’16 edition
      Multi-colored strands: Rebellious or Forward Thinking

      • UhLasare

        As a crocheter, I would not find that boring at all!

        • beauty for ashes

          always wanted a crocheted bikini!

          • UhLasare

            They’re back in right now, as are a lot of crocheted items that were popular in the 70s.

  • Observer

    Mr Observer and I noticed a very orange glow coming through the windows a little while ago, and went out to find a spectacular sunset in progress. I took a sequence of pics, but since Disqus will not display things in the order I want them to, I’m going to post the first one in here and the rest in sequential order as replies.

    refresh

    1.

    • Observer

      2.

      • Observer

        3.

        • Observer

          4.

          • Observer

            5.

            • TexasBroad

              Stunning!!!

            • Observer

              One of the best things about the internet is being able to share what you’re seeing with people all around the world.

            • Jimmy3

              That’s also one of the worst things about the internet.

            • beauty for ashes

              Do you have a pimple Jimmy?

            • Jimmy3

              No. Do I? Oh shit. Do I?

            • beauty for ashes

              Nah, you’re beautiful. might want to exfoliate a little , and moisturize more though.
              I think it’s just a herpes sore what you’re seeing.

            • Jimmy3

              Prolaby.

            • thetastic

              Ugh, I’d rather just see observer’s pics. Don’t encourage him.

            • Baby

              Obs.. Breathtaking.. Wow.

            • Contamminated

              Beautiful pix.

            • Kestrel

              Awesome!

            • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

              This is my favourite.

            • Snippy_X

              Fabulous! I swear, those colors transitioning from gold to the violets of the night turned on the melatonin. It could mess people up to let Disqus place them out of order.

            • Frodis73

              Obs, these are flat out gorgeous!

    • Funny you mentioned! Check my newest post on FB, dear neighbour.
      I would post it here, but I hate resizing them even more. Love your shots!
      P.S. As soon as I noticed a yellow/orange glow, I knew this is going to be special and rushed to the roof.

    • salin

      Awe. Thanks.

    • Rasha

      Lovely. Capturing these is indeed a matter of seconds, isn’t it? Nice catch! <3

      • Observer

        Fortunately not as split-second as catching those lightning strikes you got!

        • Rasha

          LOL Not as split-second as one might think! It’s spotting the perfect light that really makes a shot. Sometimes it’s a perfect refraction in a raindrop, or a silhouette of a spider. Sometimes, just the right texture.

          Keep posting your wonderful images, Obs!!!!!!

    • beauty for ashes

      Oh thank god, I thought you were going to get captured by aliens in the 80’s!!!!
      Wait…there’s no terrible wind.. and clothes drying on the line outside. cause you should definitely run, if so.

    • ReallyMGM

      Obs, thanks for all the photos! They are wonderful, incredible, delicious (colors!). As scared as I am of weather things, I love looking at interesting cloud and sky photos. I just can’t look at photos of wall clouds or tornados. They send me to the basement!

  • Missionary Kid

    OT, gee, no mention at all of BE, or LRH, or Writers Of The Future. 13 science fiction authors on how Star Trek influenced their lives, http://www.theverge.com/2016/9/10/12847342/science-fiction-authors-star-trek-influenced
    Heinlein is mentioned off hand.

  • anonsparrow

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIqESwzCGg4

    The American slogan should be give me convenience or give me death.

    • Stephanie Loving

      jello!

      • beauty for ashes

        that’s how I used to always answer the phone as a receptionist, and no one ever noticed.

  • Mockingbird

    Back to the expert issue. If you are ever in a debate and someone points out their education or the education of someone that supports their claims it’s often a fallacy. In science blogs you can find medical doctors that support or oppose vaccination, lawyers that interpret law one way or another, people with any kind of degree that are creationists or evolutionists, or 911 truthers or not.

    The appeal to authority is obviously not a guarantee of accuracy. I pointed out to a fellow that argued against the use of logical fallacies and said he had feelings against them and preferred not to use them that he was using an appeal to emotion. He claimed to see that an appeal to emotion only applies to arguments used on others. I think reasons we use to influence or explain our own choices are also capable of being fallacies. They aren’t just used to influence other people. They function as the thought stopping cliches or slogans Lifton described as well.

    • Missionary Kid

      That shows the importance of peer reviewed work that is based on experimentation and evidence. One anti-vax doc in California is losing his license over his treatment of a child, without examining further what other causes might be for the kid’s reaction or following scientific methods. (I’ve simplified the case).

      • Mockingbird

        Yeah, we will never have perfect or entirely accurate information but peer review is a check and balance, in theory. And the overwhelming consensus on say climate change is an important piece of information.

        Solid scientific consensus is hard to get, so it’s worth looking at long and hard before rejecting it on any issue.

    • 180 degrees reversed – I noticed, that if i ask someone about their qualifications – they will get real pissed and give me the millennium stare. Why is that? 🙂 People should be proud of what they have accomplished and what qualifications they have acquired. I hate it, when someone “rule” over me and i find out, that this guy is a deapshit asshole and no god for nothing! Excuse my French!

      • Mockingbird

        I guess it depends on the situation. I the other day told someone online that relativity can’t be proven. It can be supported. Einstein said a thousand experiments cannot prove his theory true but just one can disprove it.

        The person said “I guess my two doctorates don’t count.” It was irrelevant. He could have a hundred degrees. Science has falsification. Any idea can be supported by current evidence and accepted but later disproven.

        He felt his credentials meant he understands science better than lesser men. I pointed out his use of appeal to authority as in his own.

        Sometimes a person feels superior to their credentials or that their success or charisma are greater than their degrees.

        I have met guys with a high school diploma who say they can do anything or just discuss their work and never education.

        • Yeah!… Is there a Logical Fallacy – Appeal to Ignorance 🙂 Some people just “play it” dumb

          • Mockingbird

            Uh…

            • Just playing around here!.. Sometimes people acting more ignorant than they actual are, downplaying them self. More like a hustler i think. Those people a sometimes scary as hell.

            • Mockingbird

              Oh yeah.

  • salin

    Reminder to recommend the content of today’s Bunker edition – and the ensuing commentary in the comments section. Forget forced ‘Space Opera’ – and enjoy an image of nature’s actual Space/Earth interaction – which is enough to hold me in awe – from Sweden earlier today – Aurora and a glimpse of the Milky Way: http://spaceweathergallery.com/indiv_upload.php?upload_id=129246&PHPSESSID=l47ec5dumfhfsnoftmips3bmp4

    • Liberated

      Truly beautiful.
      A nice break from the crazy.

  • grundoon
  • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

    I love Carrie’s takeaway:

    34:08 in the video, Carrie says Scientology was “…boring….”

    She was incredibly taken by how boring Scientology was!

    How great!

    The hundreds of thousands and millions of Scientology quitters who quit Scientology quickly in history agree with her!

    • Missionary Kid

      *Laughing agreement* Booorrrrinnng.

    • aquaclara

      What a great observation. It’s dull, and there we go. Millennials won’t go back for more boredom.

      Scientology is cooked.

      Waving hi from across the state, Chuck. Go, Pitt. Whoop whooop.

      • Juicer77

        Upvote except for the Pitt part. Pffffffffft on Pitt! 😉

  • Jimmy3

    I don’t think Marty is coming to HowdyCon 2017 :/

    • beauty for ashes

      I think he and Kim would get along just bitchin. **shrugs**

    • What’sup

      I don’t think Tony will be attending “Bitchslapped by a MidgetCon” either.

    • Libertylover

      Too early to say isn’t it? who knows what he’ll think by then.

    • aquaclara

      BAH, HAH, HAH.

    • Frodis73

      So bummed, we could test his ability to lie and confront in person,

      • beauty for ashes

        Play late night truth or dare in our jammies.

        • noseinabk

          How are you and Mom doing beauty?

          • beauty for ashes

            hanging in there, day by day. 🙂 thanks for asking.

            • noseinabk

              Good

    • Libertylover

      You know, while the subject today is conspiracy, one theory hasn’t been put out there yet.
      Maybe Marty is running a super secret double agent thing.
      He gets David’s confidence and nails him on tape for the FBI. We’ll all be sorry and Marty will be the star of Howdycon.
      Or maybe I shouldn’t comment while I’m smoking this .
      It’s one of those two things.

      • Frodis73

        He did hint around about something weird sorta like that…wish I could find that post where he talked about it.

      • Juicer77

        Interesting theory… is the Hubbardian hint-dropping from Rathbun just a ploy to make him look stupid? Or is he just twisting in the wind?

        • Libertylover

          I doubt my theory to have any validity at all, but hey it’s Marty so you never know. He likes to be unpredictable and Machiavellian, so there’s a very remote chance he could.

          • Juicer77

            He aims for Machiavellian, but falls more near Macchio. Hee hee

    • edge

      Well, since he’s peeved that My Scientology Movie isn’t actually Marty’s Scientology Movie, maybe he would show if it were MartyCon?

    • TheMirrorThetan

      J. Jimmy James. If you repeat that disgusting “M” word again. I will wash your mouth out with soap and spank you. 🙂

      • What’sup

        How is that punishing him?

        • TheMirrorThetan

          True. Although the soap bit aint fun.

          • What’sup

            That’s the one thing I took away from my time in prison.

      • Jimmy3

        Marfy

        • TheMirrorThetan

          That’s not the “M” word. No spanking for you.

    • Juicer77

      f5

      • Jimmy3

        f5

        • TheMirrorThetan

          f5:

        • Juicer77

          You’re gonna need a lot of these. XD

  • Tom Klemesrud

    It could be more interesting if we were to investigate Walter Bowart, and OSA.

    [Citation]:

    AMERICAN CITIZENS FOR HONESTY IN GOVERNMENT

    ADVISORY BOARD Ralph Stavins, Government Accountability Project Walter Bowart
    Author Daniel Sheehan, Esq. Ilmar Waldner, Ph.D. Mark Jones, USMC, Ret. Jerry
    Simmons, Ph.D.

    NATIONAL OFFICE 2125 “S” Street NW Washington, D.C. 20008 (202)
    797-9820(202) 797-9825

    FOR RELEASE 3 November, 1978

    FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: Barclay Bean, [handwritten: Sue Taylor])
    797-9820 797-9825

    American Citizens for Honesty in Government (ACHG) today distributed a booklet
    outlining their offer of up to $10,000 for anyone who comes forward with
    evidence of government corruption which results in the successful prosecution of
    corrupt agencies and agency personnel. ACHG is a whistle-blowers organization of
    citizens and government employees formed last April to root out and expose
    government crime. The group is sponsored by the Church of Scientology and has
    over 20 chapters in the U.S.

    Regional Offices in New York, Sacramento, San Diego, Los Angeles, Dallas,
    Chicago, Miami, St. Louis, Boston, Detroit, and San Francisco Sponsored by the
    Church of Scientology Scientology is a registered name

    ACHG
    Rev. Arthur J. Maren, founder and chief spokesman for the group,
    stated, “Members of ACHG are sick and tired of government corruption
    running rampant and unchecked in America today. The newspapers are full of
    stories of government crime — from theft of government funds to kickbacks to
    black bag jobs. Despite this, the Justice Department has only indicted three FBI
    officials, Patrick Grey and two assistants, as figureheads in the case. Those
    indictments came down only after public opinion demanded nothing less.
    ACHG
    is going to take all steps necessary to actually bring about a political reform,
    defense of individual liberty and the securing of individual privacy which is so
    desperately needed at this time.”
    In order to do this ACHG is offering
    to pay rewards and bonuses up to $10,000 for the exposure of corruption which
    leads to arrests an d conviction of dishonest ‘ government officials. A new
    booklet “Honesty Pays … Up to $10,000″ outlines exact detailed steps
    on how a ”whistleblower can claim a reward for exposing corruption. The group
    recently conducted a nation-wide tour in over 100 cities as part of their
    campaign to ferret out dishonest and corrupt government officials and help
    restore honesty and integrity to local, state, and federal government. [End citation]

    http://www.lermanet.com/cisar/carto/irs.htm

  • aquaclara

    A message to those who are still in:

    My half lab, half greyhound Woofy Clara is sleeping right on my foot, sprawled across the sofa. (We call this puppy yoga.) Woofy loves this time, and would never understand an all-work, no play life. You shouldn’t, either. Just sending this out there to all those who are still in, and might be missing Woofy Claras of their own.

    Find the balance. Scientology doesn’t really believe in this, in case you had not noticed. Please don’t forget the fun you need in your life. Woofy is partial to frisbees, but you can decide for yourself, just as Woofy has done. Where is your fun?

    Good luck. And welcome! (Woof!)

    • ReallyMGM

      It is sad to think of all the things they miss out on. Last night I sat at a park listening to my favorite best blues/rock band (free), drinking beer, eating tacos from a food truck. Something simple/cheap I take for granted. Something people in the Sea Org can’t do, and have been convinced they don’t want to do because they are saving the planet.

      Not having my pets would be a deal breaker for me.

      With her greyhound heritage I bet Woofy Clara is a FAST frisbee retriever. My poodles Rev and Danica will retrieve anything but prefer tennis and street hockey balls.

  • Observer
  • Frodis73

    Just stumbled across this…from the first 5 mins or so and the comments it sounds pretty interesting.
    How I Accidentally Joined Scientology
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_s7EUdvb_M0

  • Observer

    Anyone looking for real estate in Creston? The Scn ranch is about half a mile off O’Donovan Rd.

    http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/7585-O-Donovan-Rd_Creston_CA_93432_M18321-53208?cid=soc_shares_ldp_fb

  • grundoon

    One Margaret Lake has laboured diligently to prove that L. Ron Hubbard’s lies about his military service are true. A few years ago she obtained and posted a number of interesting Navy records which I haven’t seen elsewhere. I’ll post a few of them here. They appear to be genuine, although her interpretations of them are strained and her conclusions unconvincing. I won’t address her implausible theories; anyone interested may read them at the link above.

    Here’s one that shows Ron skulking around Brisbane playing Secret Agent Man at the expense of innocent citizens. A warmup for his letters to the FBI in the 1950s.

    • Juicer77

      Hubbard really couldn’t have cared less about 1) the personal stress these people were put under because he named them as spies, 2) the possibility he was revealing established, productive cover identities with his big mouth and 3) sending investigators out to see if what he reported was real.
      Once a narcissistic control freak, always a narcissistic control freak.

    • J. Swift

      Margaret Lake is so earnest in her attempts to warp history around Hubbard’s fabrications. And this is her central problem: Her research skills in finding documents are considerable, but her conclusions are flawed leaps of faith. I have posted on her site but stopped after I realized she was not a historian but a Hubbard hagiographer. Poor Margaret does not seem to understand the difference between historical research and hagiography and so conflates the two to fit her worldview. To her credit, Margaret is unfailingly polite and is not the scold my old OSA handler SuzanneMarie was back in my xenu.net days.

  • Before I read any comments from today I just want to thank Jon again for caring enough about those taken in by cults and undue influence to continue to help us heal. Love and education are the needed foundation for healing fully. I just don’t see how it can happen without. And Chris and Ross and Carrie ~ that’s a must see podcast/video. I learned a lot. Thanks Tony and the rest of you too ♥ OT This morning I was driving West on the interstate 10 and just 2 miles before the exit on 79 I thought I think ill go check out Gold Base/Over the rainbow myself. I pulled over and punched in Hemet in my WAZE app and I was in the perfect place to go only 8 miles and I was there in 10 mins. The trees around all the buildings except the guard shack made it pretty hard to see much. I did see about 3 persons on motorcycles heading out the drive but the gate was still closed. The ariel view is the best. 6 years ago I had no idea what an adventure this would be leaving scientology. Even with losing these years with 3 of my 5 children and the divorcee of 24 years of a wonderful marriage it is all worth it. Looking back it is rough but I had decided that if I didn’t speak out with my real name, I was being part of the problem. I probably may have been better to wait because I was borderline physotic at the time but it does get a whole lot better then I ever imagined. Any one wantingto leave can still call for assistance to find a safe landing spot as Chris calls it. Any one that can help could probably get logged with the local homeless groups. Now for your guys comments like desert after a wonderful meal ♡

    • Liberated

      I understand so much of what you’re saying.
      We all reach out when we are able, you did everything right, I know you don’t feel that way now, but it’s true.
      I would do anything in my power to help someone who is ready to leave that god-forsaken cult, I feel like I’ve been there and back.
      Most of us have very painful stories to tell, and most people just don’t understand, but the bunker people do.
      Keep telling your story, it will only help.

    • Could be fun, just to go inside the org and then out again. Just to get that “Out of Scientology” Experience!

    • Juicer77

      Thanks for all you do, Cece, including sharing your personal story. It really helps us see the real people behind the cult masks. I’m sorry you have lost so much. One day you will see your loved ones again.

      • I’m greatfull to be listened to. I know I have not lost them entirely and just one has pasted before I could say ‘I’m sorry’.

  • grundoon

    L. Ron Hubbard gives the play-by-play of the time the Navy kicked him out of the Pacific Theater. It seems he took it upon himself to order a ship to go around Australia the wrong way, an extra 3000 miles. When called on it, he claimed to be operating under higher authority; accused a British official, Sir Thomas Gordon, of stealing secret documents; insisted he was in the right and implied that the senior officers in authority there were derelict or incompetent. Kudos to Margaret Lake for posting the document. Unfortunately I don’t have the first page.

    • grundoon

      page 2a

      • grundoon

        page 3

        • grundoon

          page 4

          • grundoon

            Cdr. Causey orders L. Ron Hubbard to get the hell out of the Pacific

            • grundoon

              Hubbard left a trail of unpaid bills

            • Liberated

              L Ron was a pussy.
              He dumped all the hard stuff on everyone else.

            • Todd Tomorrow

              Or destroyed them.

            • Qbird

              lotsa good dox, grundoon.
              real truth trumps LRH truth any day.

            • Juicer77

              “tries to give the impression of importance… seems to think he has unusual ability on most lines…”
              Cdr. Causy had his number way back then.

            • Robert Eckert

              This one I remember seeing somewhere before (maybe back in VV days?) Love the pithy, spot-on summary of Hubbard’s character.

            • grundoon

              and furthermore

    • Tony Ortega

      These are not new documents. Chris Owen of course included them in his ‘Ron the War Hero’ work of years ago. And you can find page 1 here…

      https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Cowen/warhero/1942/420205a.gif

      • grundoon

        Thanks! This apologia by Hubbard deserves wider attention. His Australian escapade is surely one of the most bizarre and audacious fuckups in the history of things ever fucked up by junior lieutenants under 90 days of active duty. Goofing around 3600 miles from where his orders should have taken him, he managed to draw the Army, Navy, British allies, civilians, and merchant marine into his fuckup, while firing off telegrams to the CinC Asiatic. It would be beyond belief without Hubbard’s own words as proof. This, Causey’s letters ejecting him, and other valuable source materials are indeed among the footnotes at Ron the War Hero.

      • Mockingbird

        Of course in the cult Hubbard claimed to be a top intelligence agent and have singlehandedly saved Australia from invasion by pulling off a brilliant intelligence operation.

        I don’t recall all the details and even when I was a die hard Scientology cult member the cumulative result of all Hubbard’s claims about martial and intelligence achievements was hard to believe.

    • MaxSpaceman

      Always as douchebag, Lafayette Ron was.

  • Observer

    I am sick of Internet butthurt in all its whiny, entitled manifestations.

    Had to get that off my chest. It’s a general statement and not directed at any individual. Good night.

    • Sherbet

      Night shift, Observer?

    • I am butthurt now and I feel offended! 🙂

      • Todd Tomorrow

        It’s all cool T.

    • Jimmy3

      does you have a bucket and brush? let’s get to work.
      http://youtu.be/O4irXQhgMqg

  • grundoon

    L. Ron Hubbard fast-talks the FDA inspectors

    • Juicer77

      Next time I take the car out of the garage, I’m going to try backing out gorgeously.

      What a buffoon!

      • Todd Tomorrow

        OT but we were watching a Doris Day movie and no matter what the primo parking spot opens up for her. Truly funny, not a hair out of place either in her convertible. If she was a clam just think of her daily wins.

        • Juicer77

          XD

    • J. Swift

      Grundoon, thanks for posting this. I have never seen it and it is a great piece of Hubbardnalia, if I may coin a term.

      IMO, this one pager gets an A+ for having more outright lies, braggadocio, grandiosity, and a super-high BS density packed into one page. Danny Sherman and DM could not possibly even hope to come close to the Master.

      • Mockingbird

        This story actually has a video used internally in the cult. It uses Hubbard’s taped description of him pistol whipping a couple guys and defeating them with his judo skills. Many Scientologists are familiar with this film and story. Hubbard claimed a grand conspiracy was out to steal Dianetics and silence him.

    • Bob Crouch

      And this guy claimed (among so many other falsehoods about himself) to be a writer? No wonder he had to start a cult to make a living…

      • Graham

        “I was just backing out very gorgeously” WTF?

        • Bob Crouch

          Gorgeous Hubbard? Who said you couldn’t put lipstick on a pig?

  • Todd Tomorrow

    Not sure why I’m starting to see the same type of psychosis in maty, bm and hubs. What could help them become happy adjusted individuals in their time? Or is it just too late for the living ones. Sociopaths who are miserable, terrible people.

    • Ann B Watson

      Thank you Todd, Strange swirls of backward energy.Masks come off and the true face comes out.❤️❤️

  • Detroit. Doin’ it right:
    “Taco truck owners in Detroit serve tasty food and a message to Trump”
    http://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/2016/09/11/taco-truck-owners-detroit-serve-tasty-food-and-message-trump/90119280/

  • FOTF2012

    I love the reminder of Hubbard “fighting” the magnetic ore deposit off the Oregon coast and shelling the Mexican island. How Quixotic, and how fitting of a pretender to the salvation of all humankind and the universe.

    Kudos to Jon Atack for his research into and chronicling of Hubbard and Hubbard’s narrative which is at such odds with reality.

  • Mockingbird

    I just finished Chris Shelton’s great video. He really has a good way of being diplomatic about some things.

    I personally tell people that auditing or using study tech feeling good doesn’t prove that they work as Hubbard described or benefit you. Doing cocaine feels good. It doesn’t mean I am getting mental or spiritual gains. That’s an essential part of the con – get someone to do something that produces an effect that’s predictable. Define the effect as beneficial and if they believe the description they believe the effect is proof of your technology. It’s a very fallacy filled approach, but fortunately Hubbard used methods that turn down or turn off critical and independent thinking. So spotting fallacies or contradictions is quite difficult.

    Chris Shelton takes on lots of Scientology ideas one by one and exposes them as black and white thinking. They are used to inhibit critical thinking and conscious thought. They act exactly as thought stopping cliches.

    They literally stop conscious critical thinking about the topics they address. That’s bad. No slogan is so holy it should stop thought. Sorry to fans of Scientology and the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics and fans of God works in mysterious ways.

    If whatever term or phrase a person has come to mind ends any further possible examination or consideration of something it functions as a thought stopper.

  • Lady Squash

    Hi Chris, really enjoyed your interview with Ross & Carrie.

  • richelieu jr

    Fun Fact: In French ‘Prout’ means ‘Fart’.

    So my ‘Ruthless’s last name looks ‘Farty’ to me.

    Probably would have anyway. Anytime I see the word Miscavige (which means nothing in France, quite accurately), I see a little hard, angry turd. Brains are funny, huh?

  • richelieu jr

    Dear @Mr Atak!

    Perhaps I can at last be of service to you, sir!

    “Foudroyant”, which is French word, very useful and quite common here, un fact, basically means absolutely stunning’, ‘gob-smacking’, ‘utterly destroying”. It can speak of an attack, a realization or a particularly fast acting or brutal cancer or stroke…

    We often use it when someone passes away quickly, or to say we were so shocked, we were ‘foudroyé’, stunned, stuck to the spot…

    Our expression for “Love at First sight” is “Le Coup de Foudre”, or the ‘Lightning Strike”!

    As l must say I was (and I do believe I have posted this here before, in reference to your book, long ago), by your footnotes which I find so concise, well-observed, and personal that I thought of Kurt Vonnegut’s observation in Cat’s Cradle that one can learn everything about a person from their footnotes..(and bibliography, I believe)..

    I was particularly impressed by a couple where you noted that you disagreed with other researchers who had written on the subject as to what certain letter were in words (the ‘Xenu vs Xemu’ dispute comes to mind).

    I remember thinking to myself, “That careful bastard! He not only goes together original sources himself, even the most well-documented ones, and decides for himself; No second witness and ‘standing on the shoulders of giants’ for him!

    Amazing, meticulous, honest, passionate work. Thank you for your attention to detail and for your occasional illuminating insights.

    (I liked some of your artwork, too. Quite a lot, actually!)

  • Hana Eltringham Whitfield

    Brilliant, Jon, brilliant – as they say over the pond. Thank you for your article on Prouty! I wish he could see it. You are one of few former scientologists who has a grasp on the real facts, the real details, and I commend you for it. It takes time and money, and tons of patience and determination to comb through piles of paper … You are indeed one of the Good Guys, my friend!