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Megan Shields, the physician Scientology used to vouch for its drug rehabs, dies of cancer

Megan_Shields

[Megan Shields and her husband, George Duggan]

We learned last night that Dr. Megan Shields, a Glendale physician and OT 8 Scientologist who had been doctor to many Church of Scientology members in the Los Angeles area, died last week after a lengthy battle with cancer. She was 68.

Scientologists who revered her have been posting remembrances of her on Facebook, about how she had a unique way to treat them and save them from seeing more conventional doctors.

 
ShieldsFB

 
She’ll also be remembered for being the medical authority that backed up Scientology’s Narconon drug rehab network as its “research director.” Narconon is actually based on the unscientific ideas of Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard that he recorded decades ago and are followed to the letter. As we’ve documented here numerous times, Narconon centers don’t actually offer drug counseling, but instead have patients go through the same quasi-psychological exercises that beginning members do in a Scientology church. Carnegie Mellon University professor David Touretzky maintains detailed web pages about the origins and development of Narconon. At one page, he writes about the involvement of Shields and her onetime clinic partner, Dr. Gene Denk, in writing up the Narconon program’s description of its “detoxification” process. Denk was L. Ron Hubbard’s personal physician and was his doctor of record when Hubbard died of a stroke on January 24, 1986. When Hubbard’s third wife, Mary Sue, died of cancer in 2002, it was Megan Shields who issued her death certificate. (Denk died of cancer in 2004.)

Denk and Shields both also worked together on a 1998 C. Thomas Howell movie, Charades, which also featured Scientologist Karen Black. If anyone knows why the two Scientology doctors were involved in that, please let us know.

Here’s how Shields talked about her endorsement of the Narconon program…

I have been associated with the Narconon program for nearly 20 years.

As a medical doctor practicing in a family clinic serving a broad cross-section of public, I have seen the increase in persons arriving at my clinic who have damaged themselves and the lives of those around them as a result of alcohol and other drug abuse. No different than any other doctor, I have observed with sorrow the increasing numbers of people who descend at a frightening rate from what they certainly thought was ‘experimentation’ or ‘recreation’ into compulsion to use, and addiction to drugs.

I have never liked the concept of using drugs and medications to solve the problems created by drugs and medication. There is a place for medication, but it is defined and limited. Therefore, from the very beginning of my practice it was a serious concern for me to know where I could refer patients for help either for themselves or for a family member or friend.

As a doctor it was evident to me that the long-term physical, mental and emotional consequences of drug use had something to do with the residual effects of the drugs themselves. This was clearly the case as well with environmental and industrial toxins and such poisons as lead in wall paint eaten by children, firemen inhaling smoke fumes containing toxins, etc.

Customary medical procedures held no solution to this problem of drug and toxic residuals. Various ‘treatments’ have been proffered, ranging from the psychiatric viewpoint of getting the person to believe that the problem he was experiencing from toxins was all in his mind, to the administration of drugs to suppress the symptoms exhibited. These ‘treatments’ only served to compound the problem. But with the release of the Narconon New Life Detoxification Program which utilized the researches of L. Ron Hubbard, I discovered that we had a solution at hand.

The depression, hopelessness and fear which so often accompany such problems were evident in many of my patients. Upon completion of the Narconon program, to which I had referred them, these persons were changed both physically and mentally. The common theme expressed by those who completed it is that they were no longer encumbered by chemicals which were shutting off their lives. They expressed increased mental clarity and new hope for the future. Their lives upon completion of the program were happier, healthier, and more productive. Beyond the detoxification program, the benefits of the Narconon practical life skills courses were an important part of their stable recovery. I was pleased to see even the most ‘hard-core,’ seemingly hopeless cases recuperate and salvage their lives.

There is not often good news in our struggle with the consequences of alcohol and other drug abuse in our society. I am happy to say that the Narconon program is good news. I encourage you to review it carefully and consider utilizing it. Many years ago I did and I have been able to help save many lives as a result.

Respectfully, Megan Shields, M.D.

In recent years, the Narconon program has been under siege as news of patient deaths and the filing of many lawsuits has exposed some of the drug program’s deceptive practices.

Besides backing up the Narconon detoxification process, Shields could also be counted on when the church needed a doctor’s note in a lawsuit.

Shields was married to George Duggan, and they were listed as donors in various Scientology projects, including the Super Power Building. We haven’t seen any evidence that George Duggan is related to Bob Duggan, Scientology’s most wealthy donor.

Shields dealt with some tragedy in her life: Her daughter Louisa committed suicide by hanging in 2004.

We’re interested in hearing your stories about Dr. Shields, since so many Scientologists were treated by her. We imagine that some of the ex-church members who read and comment here interacted with her.

According to the family, a private service for Shields was held last weekend, and a public one will take place on July 24.

 
UPDATE: We’ve received some addition material from Rachel Denk. She remembers that the suicide of Louisa, Megan’s daughter, happened not long after her husband Gene Denk’s death. “What might not be well known is that their son was murdered — shot, I believe — before the daughter’s hanging. 2004 was a very rough year for all of us,” Rachel tells us. Rachel says she was shocked this morning to see this story and learn the news that Megan Shields had died.

“Her passing has indeed brought about an end to the era. My deepest condolences to her family and many friends at this time of her passing,” she says. And she supplied this photo, of, from left to right, George Duggan, Gene Denk, and Megan Shields.

 
ShieldsDenkDuggan

 
——————–

Bonus items from our tipsters

Nancy Cartwright, Her Royal Governness of the Vast Valley Territory — and the voice of Bart Simpson — held a pirate party in her own backyard to raise money, yet again, for the Valley Ideal Org that seems to be as far from its fundraising goals as ever.

 
Nancy_Cartwright_Pirate1
Nancy_Cartwright_Pirate2

 
Hey, girl.

 
SciCoolest

 
——————–

3D-UnbreakablePosted by Tony Ortega on June 25, 2016 at 07:00

E-mail tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Our book, The Unbreakable Miss Lovely: How the Church of Scientology tried to destroy Paulette Cooper, is on sale at Amazon in paperback and Kindle editions. We’ve posted photographs of Paulette and scenes from her life at a separate location. Reader Sookie put together a complete index. More information about the book, and our 2015 book tour, can also be found at the book’s dedicated page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of L.A. attorney and former church member Vance Woodward
UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists
GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice
SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

Other links: Shelly Miscavige, ten years gone | The Lisa McPherson story told in real time | The Cathriona White stories | The Leah Remini ‘Knowledge Reports’ | Hear audio of a Scientology excommunication | Scientology’s little day care of horrors | Whatever happened to Steve Fishman? | Felony charges for Scientology’s drug rehab scam | Why Scientology digs bomb-proof vaults in the desert | PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer | The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill | Scientology boasts about assistance from Google | The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

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  • Panopea Abrupta

    “And who knows what rough beast,
    It’s hour come round at last,
    Slouches towards Hemet to be shorn?”

    Megan Shields RIP
    It always astonishes me when people who should know better endorse quackery.
    Gene Denk and Megan Shields both prescribed vitamins and other non-scientific treatments frequently.
    Misguided? Yes.
    Prisoners of Lord Hubris? Certainly.
    How they were not suspended saddens me.

    ETA “Coolest religion on Earth”?
    Are you off your tiny little rocker?
    $cientology is so cold absolute zero describes both it’s value and it’s temperature.

    • Peter

      Vitamins are non-scientific???

      • Robert Eckert

        When prescribed as panaceas for illnesses whose cause has nothing to do with vitamin deficiency, certainly.

        • madge filpot

          Yes of course.. in that context I agree.

        • Peter

          The statement was a blanket one, Robert. And since doctors get 4 hours of training in nutrition, and routinely prescribe incorrect drugs…and manage to kill over 100,000 million annually in hospitals…and there are no reports of anyone dying of vitamin intake…methinks you’re being a bit odd on the subject.

          • Robert Eckert

            Overdoses of vitamins, such as the massive niacin ODs which many Scientologists go through, can be carcinogenic, something you should not be brushing aside on a day when, once again, a Scientologist dies young of cancer.

            • Peter

              Only idiots would take such dosages, Robert. Perhaps smoking, also encouraged in scio, has a far greater effect. My point is…from the top…vitamins should not be construed as “quackery”, which they were. All this extraneous stuff you’ve added won’t change that. I’ve seen other valuable health technologies also condemned as “quackery” on this list, as well. Always by those who don’t use them, thus know nothing about them.

            • Robert Eckert

              Only idiots and scientologists, who happen to be the topic of discussion here. As for all the other woo that you are a sucker for, let’s not go there.

          • JustSheila

            There was a NOTS pre-OT who died from drinking too much Cal-mag between NOTS session. I don’t remember his name just that he was from Mexico. He had undiagnosed liver and kidney damage and the Cal Mag literally killed him.

          • Roger Y

            “Manage to kill over 100,000 million annually in hospitals”

            Please, please site your source for this statement????

            • Peter

              It amazes me that some folks on this list are so lazy about real information. You asked for my source(s)?
              http://www.hospitalsafetyscore.org/newsroom/display/hospitalerrors-thirdleading-causeofdeathinus-improvementstooslow
              http://www.ihi.org/about/news/Pages/440000DeathsAnnuallyfromPreventableHospitalMistakes.aspx
              http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2013/09/20/224507654/how-many-die-from-medical-mistakes-in-u-s-hospitals
              I won’t bother to continue as a google search for hospital deaths annually from errors brought up over SIXTY THREE MILLION HITS. I wonder what some of you critics are smoking?

            • Free Minds, Free Hearts

              Okay. Let’s look at Google search term hits.

              Searching for “Scientology deaths” brings up 365,000 hits. For a group with 20,000 or so active members, that’s a lot. 18,250 hits for “Scientology deaths” per member… Sad photos, too.

              In 2012, there were 36.5 million hospital stays in the United States http://www.hcup-us.ahrq.gov/reports/statbriefs/sb180-Hospitalizations-United-States-2012.pdf.. So 63 M hits gives 1.7 hits per hospital stay even if every hit were for 2012 which it is not…

              So the win goes to – Scientology! for more hits on deaths – and I think proportionately more deaths! Congratulations Scientology, for a shrinking loser cult you have done an excellent job on killing people.

            • Peter

              Interesting, to say the least. But I can’t quite figure your parameters. Or exactly what you’ve derived. The same individual may have 20 or 30 hits, perhaps more if famous…or infamous. The stats for deaths caused by doctor/hospital error in terms of Google hits simply refers to the wide chasm between what most *think* of the medical industry and what its results actually are. Scio hardly has killed 100K people annually nor even close to that amount. Nor are all those hits connected to specific deaths. I think you’re confusing apples with kumquats here. 🙂

            • Free Minds, Free Hearts

              Nope, just coming up with other random arbitrary measures if we are going by google searches. I do love kumquats though.

      • flyonthewall

        I could post links to numerous scientific studies that show vitamins have no beneficial effects and can actually cause harm but you wouldn’t believe them anyway bc you distrust science and medicine.

        • Peter

          I’m sure you could. I could post numerous scientific studies showing just the opposite. My question for you is could you also quote who *paid* for the studies? And any actual harm done by vitamins, especially deaths? The AMA fought Vitamin C for decades and called its defender a “quack”, their favorite weapon.

          FYI, I don’t distrust science. I *do* mistrust the medical industry which has managed to place US health as #18 on the WHO list. However, it’s #1 in world costs. Annual stats have been showing over 100K deaths in hospitals by errors made by doctors. I avoid hospitals at all costs. I pay attention to what I eat (and don’t eat), take a good number of vitamins and other supplements. I’ve had neither a cold or the flu for over 40 years. I think I’ll stick to my safer regimen.

          • flyonthewall

            I bet you have a lot of interesting thoughts on flouride and chemtrails too.

            • Peter

              You’re actually funny. I know very little about chemtrails – though there is little I’d wouldn’t put past gubmints – and simply don’t use flouride, a fairly deadly poison in natural form. (Dreadful for children in tooth paste form.) I also don’t smoke and drink lightly and eat close to organic. I’m now in my 80s, am taken for my 60s, have the weight I had when I was 22, work out 3x weekly, have most of my hair and teeth and am having a wonderful life. Do I think the chemical and big ag companies disrupt the planet and are up to all manner of skullduggery? Yep. So what?

              Just read an article on weed I thought most interesting. It will most likely be legalized nationally soon, but it will most likely be done in such a way that either Bayer or Monsanto will benefit in further billions.

            • flyonthewall

              I’m glad you have good health Peter and hope it stays that way. Please take care of yourself and get regular check ups at a good reputable professional doctor.

            • Peter

              Thanks. “A good reputable professional doctor” is, so far, hard to find. So many I’ve found are at least 20 years behind developments. And all want to prescribe drugs, knowing nothing of alternatives. Pretty sad.

          • Jake Hamby

            Your vitamin supplements are most likely an expensive placebo. There are dangers from overdoing it: http://www.webmd.com/diet/guide/effects-of-taking-too-many-vitamins

            Recent studies have shown that people who take daily vitamins have more health problems, on average, than those who don’t. I’m not sure why that is, but that’s what the numbers show when you look at large numbers of people over time. You’re better off getting your nutrition from food, unless you’re deficient in something specific, like vitamin D, calcium, or folic acid, that you need supplemented. Medical doctors have enough training in science-based nutrition to advise patients in this area. Anything else is quackery.

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        Often. I could go on.

      • MadisonAgain

        Do you know what’s in your vitamins and supplements?
        http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/05/dangerous-supplements/index.htm

    • aegerprimo

      Little miss muffet
      Sat on her tuffet
      eating her curds and whey

      Okay Pan Ab improve the nursery rhyme…..

      dairy products suck
      makes me throw up
      what did the doctor say?……

  • Dice ✓

    Another OT cancer victim added to the list R.I.P

    • 0tessa

      I wonder how she treated her own cancer. With auditing those nasty body thetans?

      • Dice ✓

        You won’t believe it… but that’s exactly what they would do!

        • Tracy Schmitz

          so when do they give up and think “uh, uh, err, err.. okay, so it didn’t work, no, i mean i did work, i’m just going to go into another body, yet, that’s it, it did work, yeah, that’s it, that’s the ticket!”… (um, why did i get the cancer in the first place when i’m a ot 8 with powers over mest question never came up huh?) RIDICULOUS…..

        • 0tessa

          I believe it for sure.

      • madge filpot

        Yep exactly.. or tons of ethics handlings to locate the source of the PTS-NESS

  • salin

    If you/your organization need a t-shirt to declare that you/it is the ‘coolest on earth’, then it is pretty clear that you/it isn’t cool at all.

    • Sunny

      Pretty sure that is the guy who was an HGC auditor in Venezuela Org when I was there. He got me Comm Eved and in deep doo-doo for some big lies he told about me. Always the smiley one.

      • salin

        Nothing says ‘ (faux) integrity’, like spreading bs about another person and taking action on that bs as if it is truth. Ugh.

        That said, he still may be smiling, but he is still mired in that mindwarp that can’t distinguish between bs and reality.

    • Maybe it was supposed to be coldest?

      • salin

        touche! 🙂

        Btw, I have been a bit out of touch, but read yesterday that you have had some strange cyber antics happening… is everything okay?

        • I’ve had a problem for months where it looks like someone is trying to connect another ADSL modem to the same line. That doesn’t work and the modems fight for control of the the line, knocking each other off. I’ve boosted the signal from my modem so it always wins those fights, and yet the other person keeps trying. That suggests that someone has a bandit connection to my phone line and is trying sneak free Internet. (That might work against someone who didn’t monitor their connection 24/7.) It could just be a Bell wiring fuckup, but why would the other person put up with almost zero service?

          • Chewkacca

            It might be an OSAhole trying to hack and spy on you. Get your line checked. And verify that the checker is legit by calling the phone co to see if he works for them. GROOUWL!

            • I rather think that if OSA was trying to spy, they wouldn’t be hijacking the line.

              When I get annoyed enough, I’ll inject a radio signal in the line and go looking for places where the signal comes out. Can’t stop the signal.

      • BosonStark

        I’d go with “nuttiest.”

    • Sejanus

      The funny thing about that shirt is if it was worn out in the real world, it would likely generate giggles and be taken as sarcasm.

      • salin

        True. Though i don’t know that the person wearing the t-shirt would get the joke.

    • BosonStark

      LOL. Yeah, like clams are really going to wear that in public! They’d feel too embarrassed to wear a Dianutty t-shirt in public, when not in a group doing something for the cult.

    • OOkpik

      It should read:

      Scientology
      Downright Chilling

      • salin

        That would = Truth in Advertising.

  • Xenu’s son.

    Her hysteria torpedoed my marriage.I was gone for 2 months and she insisted my wife take an aids test.My wife not the brightest light on the Christmas tree even before scientology then concluded that I screwed around when I did not.My son and you thank you Megan.I wish you good luck in the great hysterics field in the sky.

  • Descriptions of “Charades” (the film) trun out to be only a Google away, for example https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charades_(film) Not the same as having seen it, I know, but better than nothing… Synopsis here http://www.tvguide.com/movies/degree/review/136472/(under the alternaive title, “First Degree”).

  • Stay Puft

    What is it with scientology and pirate themed fundraising parties? Seriously, it’s always pirates.

  • Sunny

    Rest in Peace Dr. Shields. I knew and worked with both her and Dr. Denk when I was over staff medical at CCI (91 to 98). I first met Dr. Shields in 79 (I was 6 or 7) when I busted my forehead open and had to get stiches. She has/had been around a long time. She has seen a lot of the BS that went on with SO members and did not raise a finger in protest. Just sayin’.

    • Sejanus

      Evidently she was off sick when they taught “do no harm” in med school.

      • Tracy Schmitz

        evidently she was off sick off and on for decades….

      • Peter

        Unfortunately, that particular class seems to be empty a great deal of the time. Over 100,000 deaths annually from misdiagnoses, wrong drugs, *right* drugs, errors in judgement…on and on ad nauseum. And only FOUR HOURS of “training” on diet and food. Sad, indeed.

        • Linda Clement

          I always tell people who are unsure about their doctors that somebody always graduates at the bottom of the class, and they have the same M.D. after their names as the summa cum laudes. If you think your doctor is an idiot, you’re probably right.

      • flyonthewall

        oh oh oh I thought you said it was the hypocrite oath! My bad

    • BosonStark

      In her photos, she looks like a very pleasant person and she’s attractive. Was she flaky or odd in real life, or just a nice, caring doctor, as you remember her?

      • Sunny

        To be fair in my response, I was flaky and odd in the Sea Org, and always in a rush. And that was how I always saw her. She was not ever (that I saw) taking things slowly, assessing them and giving you information to make decisions. She was quick to respond and explain things in a direct manner.

      • Sunny

        I probably have hundreds of stories. But to be honest, I dealt with so much staff medical that I cannot always say for sure if it was Dr Denk or Shields who gave particular directions, because we used both.
        There are several stories that I specifically remember with Dr Sheilds that come to mind:
        1) A staff member was ill with a bad headache for many days. I brought him to Shaw (dropped him off, actually and I went back to CC). As soon as I stepped back in CC door, I was grabbed and told Dr Sheilds was on the phone. She told me to bring this staff member to Olive View (county hospital) immediately. She told me he would be dead in a matter of hours if he did not get immediate blood transfusions (he had lost a lot of blood and no-one knew why and he did not tell anyone. He had only complained of headaches). He was rushed to hospital and turned out ok.
        2) Another staff member was getting a physical or something. I was called at CC (by Dr. Shields)and told that this staff member had to get on a particular medication and stay on it the rest of her life. If she stopped it for any period of time, she would be dead in a year (thyroid). We did get her the medication she needed. She is now out of the SO, SP declared and has two beautiful babies.
        3) We had two type III staff at CC, at the same time. Both of them were seen by Dr Shields. LRH says that someone who has a psychotic break has a hidden illness or physical condition. In both of these cases Dr Shields was not able to find an underlying condition. There was a lot of back and forth trying to force her to diagnose them with a physical condition so they could move on to the next step (nothing could be done for them with Scn auditing until the underlying condition was found and treated). She never did find anything wrong with them. One of them became very violent and would not sleep. Everything we tried to do to get him to rest backfired. Poor guy. I hope they are both ok now. I don’t know what happened to them (common thing in Scn to lose track of people).

        • Fred G. Haseney

          It is a very common thing in scientology to lose track of people. I suppose one could attribute that as the “race to OT” (or the “race to Operating Thetan”). As L. Ron Hubbard has said/written (to paraphrase), “only the able survive.” I watched friends, co-workers and associates zoom up the “Bridge to Total Freedom” while I sat on the sidelines, stuck in the “Non-Interference Zone” (I needed the “Clear Certainty Rundown,” or CCRD, ever since 1978). Once a person became an OT and went to the Flag Land Base, in Clearwater, I rarely, if ever, saw them again. And if I did, there’d always be an air of accomplishment about them. Besides, you could never, ever speak to any scientologist plainly and freely, outside of an auditing session, that is. As a result, an OT and I never had a level of reality so as to maintain the friendship we once had before they walked through Hubbard’s OT III “Wall of Mire.”

          • pluvo

            It is a very common thing in scientology to lose track of people

            What you described above is only one part of the people who ‘disappear’. The other is that people are leaving, and also as staff members are getting demoted, transferred or thrown out and ‘defrocked’.
            As it is forbidden in Scn to tell that one is leaving, (listed as a high crime in Scn:“ Informing fellow staff members and others that one is leaving staff.” “It is a high crime to publicly depart Scientology.”) the rank and file mostly don’t get to know what really happened.
            To talk about it would also be considered to spread entheta and disaffection and one could get reported to ‘ethics’ and get sec checked.

            • Fred G. Haseney

              Scientology has their flock muzzled!

            • Chewkacca

              With Declares and Disconnection, it’s “de-flocking” itself……GNOOURFF!

          • Fred, that must of been a big relief when after some 35 years you no longer felt you needed to travel Ron’s bridge in order to have spiritual freedom. My view, I think you are doing just fine in that area 🙂 My ‘item’ was education. It was a relief when I realized I didn’t need to word-clear every definition, derivation and synonym when studying and I certainly did not need to read every word that looney tunes spoke or wrote! Doing the OT levels was never a spiritual goal of mine thank goodness.

            • Fred G. Haseney

              Thanks for sharing that, Cece. How’s Simi, today? Recently, I realized how much control the narcissistic L. Ron Hubbard had over me. Being a narcissist is one thing, but that guy controlled me. I wore the hat of a dutiful audience of one. It became my job as a scientologist to follow LRH’s every word and, if not understood, to find the definition of the word I didn’t understand. With LRH’s “technology,” it’s one-street. From the moment I arrived in scientology, I obeyed and, if I couldn’t, I carried the responsibility of that shameful action.

              I got in scientology in 1977; a year later, I attested to “theta clear,” which Hubbard soon cancelled. About a year later, I had another clear-related moment, and from that day forward, I needed the Clear Certainty Rundown. I never did earn the huge volumes of money needed for professional auditing (not to mention the OT Levels) so I sat on the sidelines, watching the world (and scientologists) go by.

              How often when in scientology did someone (such as yourself) ever talk to someone (such as myself) about how nuts, crazy and insane LRH’s ramblings were? May I answer that? Okay: how about NEVER!

            • That’s correct. NEVER! (((Hugs))

            • Fred G. Haseney

              Hi, Cece. I never did get a chance to say “hello” for you to the protesters last night at PAC Base! Thank you for the (((Hugs))).

        • That’s the victims of the mind-fuck perpetrated by the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology for you. Practising medicine without a license based on the laughable ignorance of L R H.

          Yes, each of these individuals did their individual bits, many of them bad. But it was the criminal organisation which exerted undue influence over them in order to make more money for L R H.

        • Patricia Lathrom

          Thank you for those stories Sunny. In the first two cases, Dr. Shields did good work. In the last example, her hands were tied. That person probably needed to be seen by a psychiatrist and that was forbidden. I worked for an Upper Level Scientologist who had a nervous breakdown, was psychotic. She suffered unnecessarily for years because of the Church’s anti-psychiatry phobia. Her family finally threw in the towel with the quack Scientology treatment plan. This Upper Level Scientologist is now seeing a psychiatrist, is on “evil” psych drugs, and is doing so much better. I hate that frigging organization.

      • Fred G. Haseney

        Once, I had an Office Visit with Dr. Sheilds, after she moved her practice to Glendale, California. Afterward, she offered me a delicious piece of homemade pie and we spent a few moments talking about nothing in particular.

    • Racnad

      Do you have any idea what payment arrangements existed between Shaw Medical Clinic and the Sea Org for treating SO members?

      • Sunny

        The Sea Org member rarely paid their own medical bills to Shaw (unless they were going on their own, without medical liaison approval… which was me for CCI and Manor Hotel staff). If it were something decided by the medical officer, the payment was paid by the MLO Float (cash that medical liaison officer had for vitamins and emergencies… most I ever had per week was about $200 for 250 staff).
        Shaw charged $45 for a dr visit. They would try to do everything they could to not charge SO… only the bare minimum. Many times Dr Denk would tell them not to charge me. He did a lot of free visits and checkups on staff for CCI. At least when I was there… 91 to 98.

        • Racnad

          Thank you for providing some detail that may not have been published before. Did you pay them with cash most times you brought someone there, were the SO & Orgs billed each month for the sum of the visits? Did the SO pay more for longer or more complex procedures?

          • Sunny

            No, only authorized visits were for the cash I had on hand. If it was clear that someone needed something more than could be covered, it would need prior approval. I would call the Captain CCI and get approval, with estimated costs, and he would ok it, then make sure it was covered in the next FP (or the next few, if it was a lot of money).
            If a Sea Org member went on their own, they would be liable for the bill out of pocket.
            There is no such thing as extensive medical treatment in the Sea Org.

          • AOLA carried a credit account with Shaw. It was a separate item on the Financial Planning along with the crew medical float as Sunny mentions. Mind you Racnad, AOLA and CCI for the most part had a larger operating fund for crew then did many other organizations. My husband, crew at ASHO Day, was peeing blood late ’84 and receiving only brush offs by the Medical Officer and FP (we called it no-sympathy). He got himself on a plane and flew to his parents in Michigan and was taken immediately to emergency care. He hadn’t even told me about these problems. Imagine my surprise when I woke to an empty bed and then received a stuffed gorilla the next morning via UPS to AOLA reception with a note letting me knw where he was. I still have the gorilla and keep it dressed up with a cigar staring out my back window hoping he and his new wife get out one day.

            • UhLasare

              I hope they do, too. 🙁

      • I over saw spending on behalf of crew medical 85-93 at AOLA. The doctors gave discounts to staff and our children.

        • Sunny

          You must have just missed the MMR evolution. 1994 there was an outbreak in LA (I guess, or a threat of it), so the county was giving free MMR vaccines. Shaw Health Center had thousands of vials of them. All the MLO (Medical Liaisons) were sent to Shaw, given the shot, trained on how to give the shot (by Dr Shields), then handed over enough vaccines for their org. I did 250 vaccines on Manor and CCI staff in a 48 hour period.
          We had a few staff have reactions to the shots and we had no idea what to do with them.
          Don’t you need some sort of training to do that stuff?

          • JustSheila

            Good point. Yes.Some basic nursing certification required unless it is a family member. There are risks of infection from improper prep, improper injection (injection too deep or too shallow). There is also a formal health record for innoculations and all those innoculated should have been entered in the system and given a formal innoculation card certified by a doctor.. Also, why were they innoculated without first verifying by blood test that they actually needed the MMR or a booster shot?

            • Baby

              Sheila .. I was so happy to see you and Cece walk in the room at Cleveland.. Now I can put a face to your name. Everyone had so much fun together.

              I hope you can make it to Denver next year.. xo love baby

          • Yup, by then I was on the decks or RPF. Thanks for your stories Sunny.

  • Sejanus

    So she was a doctor who had a fundamentally poor understanding about
    what real research is,
    how much damage thoroughly debunked quack treatments can do,
    what a fraud the Crimson Cyst was.

    Additionally an OT VIII who couldn’t beat cancer?
    How not surprising.

    $cientology. It’ll kill ya.

    • Tracy Schmitz

      like i’ve ALWAYS SAID education and degrees are trumped and always will be trumped if that particular person is a bad morally evil person or just a simple book smart, dumb as rocks everywhere else kind of person… it’s what kind of person a person is that is the most important in what they do and do to others..

      • shasha40

        Truth !!!

    • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

      “Well intentioned” and just trying to “survive”, like everyone fumbling through life, who were unfortunate enough to be suckered into the Scientology environmental zone.

      The proclivity for quack treatments versus medicine and drug treatments, I remember when I went to the Shaw Clinic, one Sunday afternoon with a CSP (Sea Org Sunday mornng LA hygience time) pickup basketball dislocated finger injury, the doctor on duty who was OT 3 did a mental Xray of my dislocated finger and he and I determined my finger wasn’t dislocated, but in fact it was. My bad, even going there, should have gone to a hospital where a dislocated finger is more professionally Xrayed and snapped back into proper position. (I admit being a “non-whiner” mentality helps being a cult member and quackery complicit community member to quack groups like Scientology.)

      Scientology, is quack, in all directions, and Hubbard died believing he was still bothered by nearby body thetans bugging him, his own Solo NOTS OT 7 exorcism and the souped-up Emeter that Sarge made for Ron didn’t blast the Hubbard “body thetans” away for Hubbard.

      Scientologists grow to believe “body thetans” need to be exorcised, and running in circles in the Super Power Building in Clearwater is what will enhance their lives and make them “OT” supersouls someday.

      USA allows quack stuff, that’s a freedom.

  • Baby

    Night everyone.. Treasure Chest Org Picture.. remembered I fixed the picture up for you.. f5

    • Dice ✓

      mmm Subway!

    • worstcultever

      Hah! You forgot Payday Loans.

      • Baby

        Oh absolutely.. It’s around back Cult..

    • salin

      Night Baby. Love the pic. ’12 Theaters’ … Long Con Ron selling fiction and drama – 60 years and counting.

      • Baby

        I liked the 12 theaters too..hahha.. I can’t keep my eyes open.. yawwwwn.. f5 love you.. baby

        PS… start saving for Denver.

        • salin

          Already have a small fund set aside.

          • Baby

            OMG.. that would be absolutely amazing… wow..

          • Illinoisian

            (Yaaay!)

        • SarahDB

          Night baby!

          • Baby

            smooches.. Good MOOOOOOOOOOOrning Blondie

  • worstcultever

    SCIENTOLOGY – Most Expensive Religion on Earth. Fixed it for him.

    But seriously, I could see those shirts fast becoming collector’s items among the hipster irony set.

    • Baby

      I am farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr from being a Hipster.. but I would wear one.. in Clearwater.. while holding a Critic’s book. ( Or an Anon mask..hahahahha)

  • Robert Hanna Moore

    Is that a Reg at stage right purloining his car keys? Anyway, I want that t-shirt.

  • pluvo

    At 3:56 in the video Scott explains how Dr. Megan Shields kept him drugged up on Diazapam (Valium) and Chloral Hydrate (same drug cocktail as used on Lisa McPherson.)
    https://whyweprotest.net/threads/dr-megan-shields.94942/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0sKg1F7IN98#t=236s

    • salin

      His videos are horrifying to watch. Didn’t remember the direct part that she played in Scott’s horror.

    • flyonthewall

      motherfuck Megan Shields

    • Noesis

      The banality of evil…it hides in plain sight and the people involved frequently look entirely normal.

      Such banality is a very good reason to be wary of “populist” solutions to situations…as populist ideals almost always entail assigning cause for various problems to one or more out of favor groups so that terrible things can be done to those people without recourse.

      It is not unique to Scientology…but Scientology is one of the few organizations that has published written policies describing how to carry out the atrocities.

      • dchoiceisalwaysrs

        That is quite a statement about populist ideals.. ’tis a bit surprising to my poorly educated view. I would be interested to view some materials both pro and con such a statement.. Suggestions?

        • Noesis

          Sure…I’ll post some graphics in sequence.

          First…an infamous populist movement that got out of control. These folks had a “solution https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/492cc0c5fc584615f20418fb24f533d96d426605026d0e41efd87573fa8054ba.jpg ” too…

          • Noesis

            Another populist “solution” that ultimately resulted in more than 30 million citizens being murdered or deliberately starved to death by their own government. Believe it or not…among the main goals of the “solution” was “income equality.”

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/759cf0a722aa146b487a792a2f08a4300f5e934d7efdda859c7b0902fea96673.jpg

            • Noesis

              Then on a smaller scale (at least for now) was the “Hole – O – Caust” solution…

              https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4d51fc481f29782f07298788f44230f2b0969675ab29b36113c3b50461f55bb5.jpg

            • Noesis

              Ultimately…the problem with Populist “solutions” is one never knows when someone many folks dismiss as an clown might somehow ignite a firestorm with populist rhetoric which results in human catastrophe…

              https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b757e378834f0022ed6ea4d80b400b09fdc8143eae12775ca1c4b39db2266746.jpg

            • Noesis

              And on a more serious note…because it appears you were sincere with your question…just Google the banality of evil and you will be presented with more pro and con on the subject of populist idealism (and the historical outcomes of related ideas) than could be consumed in a lifetime…

            • Linda Clement

              I took your advice, Noesis, and came upon a series of fascinating articles on Wikipedia and elsewhere regarding the 1961 trial of Eichmann, the fact that the Nazi leadership were not diagnosed with any mental illness which might explain their roles in the Holocaust, and Hannah Arendt’s concept of “the banality of evil.” Some of the discussions related as well to Scientology as to Nazism, in particular the concept of “Fuhrerprinzip,” which is by no means unique to destructive cults but without which destructive cults could not exist. It’s interesting to read about some of the things I’ve learned here at the Bunker and from other ex-Scientology sources in a broad social context.

              I found an interesting essay by Bethania Assy regarding Arendt’s question, “Could the activity of thinking as such, the habit of examining and reflecting upon whatever happens to come to pass, regardless of specific content and quite independent of results, could this activity be of such a nature that it ‘conditions’ men against evildoing?” at https://www.bu.edu/wcp/Papers/Cont/ContAssy.htm

              Reminds one of Chris Shelton’s work, doesn’t it?

            • Noesis

              Yes.

              After one escapes the mental traps of Scientology (assuming one was in) it becomes clear that the tiny, tiny, group known as the Church of Scientology operates on the same principles as other malevolent totalist groups…with one possible novelty being that Hubbard was a fanatic about publishing in fairly intimate detail how the organization accomplished its goals .

              The worst parts of written church policy (various GO orders, etc.) were only previously accessible only on a need – to – know basis (like when one was was in charge of committing crimes on behalf of the church or Hubbard) until the release of the documents seized by the FBI after the Snow White fiasco.

              I’m convinced that one of the reasons (probably the primary reason) that the original OEC volumes are no longer in official use is that when combined with the previously confidential written policies that have thus far been extracted from the church, the bulk of the conspiracy to defraud as well as the day – to – day mechanisms used to defraud are laid out in unambiguous fashion, should anyone attempt a RICO or similar action to halt the worst of Scientology’s criminal behavior.

              With the “cancelling” of the OEC’s the church can now argue that any fraudulent activity “previously” undertaken is now “prohibited” thus…the hoax (and fraud) of Scientology can continue under yet another written policy (or oral tradition) incarnation.

              Scientology is a relentless chameleon with one primary goal…appearing to be something it is not in order to fleece folks out of their time and money on the grandest scale possible.

            • BronxLaurie10

              Sounds like a certain presidential candidate…

            • in the UK we laughed at the sayings of Idi Amin Dada, once dictator of Uganda. He was such a clown that people didn’t realise he was clown who killed and tortured people.

              The problem with people like this is, if you underestimate them, you will wake up one morning to find that they are in power.

            • Noesis

              Exactly.

    • aegerprimo

      UGH! I just want to cry.

      Chloral Hydrate is drug given before surgery, and not used much. Most modern operating rooms these days – anesthesia nurses and anesthesiologists (anesthesia doctors) give Versed (midazolam) to patients before surgery. It is a sedation given to relax the patient. Less side effects.

  • BosonStark

    Do any ex-members know the story of how Dr. Shields came to get into Scientology?

  • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

    I don’t have a single thing to say.

    Am I a cold bitch? Probably.

    Will be checking in later for stealth opening pics. 👍

    • Sunny

      Here’s some food for thought: (probably make you more speechless, apologies in advance)

      https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.religion.scientology/TTntOnex4A0

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        I’ve heard more about her and Dr. Denk then I ever thought I’d need to. I am sorry for the people who grieve her but after all I’ve heard I’ll save my grief for those parents without their children.

        I’m sure this isn’t easy for you Sunny, these are people you knew, my heart is with you.

      • worstcultever

        !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        (and not in a good way)

      • Justmeteehee

        That made me shudder.

    • flyonthewall

      I’ll say it. Shields can burn in hell far as I’m concerned.

  • WOG with Attitude

    Coldest religion on earth.
    “Hurry back”, indeed.
    Newsflash…Hubbard can’t confer immortality on anyone. Obviously, Scientology can’t cure anything. Will they say their OTVIII wasn’t doing it right?!

    Always conflicted when someone like this passes. I’m sorry she was duped and was instrumental in causing others’ pain. She acted out of her idea of helping people. Unfortunately, she caused more damage than prevented.

    Sad on many levels. RIP. You are free of the cult, at least!

  • BosonStark

    Why doesn’t Nancy Cartwright just turn her home into the Valley Ideal Org? They could have a pirate party every day.

    • ze moo

      That is the Bartiest thing she could do!

    • Tracy Schmitz

      why doesn’t she just give ALL her money away, i mean what could be more noble and a true warrior then giving up your money, career and reputation for saving the planet? i mean it’s the greatest good right? only a cultie can help and only a cultie knows right?.

  • Tracy Schmitz

    hi everyone! 1) how do these scientologist have facebook pages? i thought they weren’t allowed to go on the internet or is that JUST the sea org members? 2) i dare that guy in the above photo to wear that t-shirt in public, in the wog world and see what happens… 3) it goes to show you that even a doctor with real life medical training can be both a idiot and morally a bad person.. that these 2 take and always will i’ve said precedence over degrees… (i.e. ben carson)…

  • MostEthicalPimp

    I and my mom were treated by Doctor Shield a few times. Being a Doctor for Doctor Phobic Scientologists can’t be easy.
    Dr. Shields did really care for her patients. My mom had an injury on duty. A few days later she saw a doctor that her company recommend. He prescribed penicillin. On the way home my mom became dizzy at a grocery store. When my mom got home she called Dr. Shields at home after hours. Dr. Shields demanded that mom went to the emergency room. My mom didn’t want to go and thought she needed to talk to the doctors the company recommend first. But Dr. Shields wouldn’t hear of it! Dr. Shields demanded my mom went to the Emergency Room. Which my mom did. She was admitted and stayed five days on heavy intravenous antibiotics. Thank you Dr. Shields. She was also present shortly after I was born through a C-Section as a late birth. She noticed that I had peeling skin probably from being born late. She made sure I got lotion for it. I think it shows that she did care about her patients even if she may have been mislead by a certain….

    • The culture of distrusting non-Scientologist doctors is a real problem.

      Prosecution rests in elder neglect case January 5, 2005, North Country Times

      Man given probation in death of mother March 5, 2005, Dana Littlefield, San Diego Union-Tribune

      I wonder how many calls she got where she had to say “Hell no! Get to an emergency room!”

    • pluvo

      Good that you had positive experience with Dr. Shields doing her job and following the Hippocratic Oath.

  • One of the Facebook comments on the doctor’s death reads, “[..] so sorry to hear this. Hurry back Megan”.

    I understand this to mean that the writer expects her ‘Thetan’ to return in an a new body.

    If this belief is taken seriously it must contribute to the medical self-neglect endemic among Scientologists – why go through gruelling medical treatment when you can always pick up another body.

    Of course, this is as easy attitude to hold when you are healthy. I wonder how the Facebook commentator would feel when diagnosed of a terminal disease after presenting too late for treatment. I suspect you feel differently, then.

    • Sunny

      From my experience, your first three paras are correct. Last para, not, because when a Scientologist finds themselves terminally ill, they still feel immortal and believe they will return. I have not seen many Scientologists who fear death. None that I can think of, actually (And I have seen my fair share).

      • shasha40

        Probably because they have no idea what living in reality is like , just believing in source and staying in that bubble . smh

      • PerpetualOutflow

        I haven’t seen them mourn the loss of loved ones much either.

        • BronxLaurie10

          I guess because part of the mind control is forcing you to suppress your feelings.

          • PerpetualOutflow

            Yeah, and it’s astonishing how effective that mind control really is. I remember telling a Scientologist friend how sorry I was to hear about the death of one of her siblings. She responded seemed actually irritated by that and responded something like, “No big deal. She just dropped the body. She’ll pick up another one.”

            • BronxLaurie10

              That’s so horribly sad. These people can’t feel much of anything after awhile.

            • PerpetualOutflow

              It felt disturbing and really weird to me at the time.

      • That’s hard for a never-in to get their head around.

        I feely yield to your first-hand experience, but can’t help but wonder if they truly believe, or if their apparent lack of fear is a result of their embracing the only comfort left to the – the hope of reincarnation.

        If people live by this kind of doctrine anecdotal reports of high death rates from the likes of cancer are easily explained.

      • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

        Many Christians believe they will go somewhere, like a heaven and not be dead. It’s not that uncommon, eh?

    • Prim

      Where’s LRon? He never came back. Probably in a very hot place with minders who really enjoy skinning him every day between sauna sessions. Ah, paybacks a bitch.

      • pluvo

        L. Ron is at Target Two.

        Miscavige then famously delivers the news that L. Ron Hubbard had not in fact “died,” but had decided quite voluntarily to leave his body so he could continue to do “research” in an incorporeal state. Says Miscavige…

        He has now moved on to his next OT…level of OT research. This level is beyond anything any one of us ever imagined. This level is in fact done in an exterior state. Meaning, that it is done completely exterior from the body. At this level of OT, the body is nothing more than an impediment, an encumbrance to any further gain as an OT.

        http://tonyortega.org/2016/01/27/30-years-ago-today-l-ron-hubbard-discarded-the-body-he-had-used-in-this-lifetime/comment-page-1/

        PS: The expression “Target Two” comes from Hubbard himself.

        “So what, really, is a birthday game all about?
        You are giving me–and yourselves–another giant step on the road to a cleared planet.
        And some day–how many birthdays later?–you’ll give me and yourselves and all your friends–a CLEARED PLANET!
        And I’ll go off with you to Target TWO and we’ll clear another one!”

  • chukicita

    The best ‘hey, girl’ needs no further words.

    So where is the person in charge of protecting and defending the ScientologyTM logo on that guy’s T-shirt? Were any licensing fees paid for its use?

    • ze moo

      I smell a sec check coming on!

      • chukicita

        Who’s gonna tell the Tiny Tusa that he’s got a sec check scheduled?

    • FredEX2

      Good question!

      • ithilien

        Fred wanted to reply on the original post , but its already been deleted! No dm is not the most important person on the world, but im sure he has lots of people who might be a threat. Or hes just getting fearful.

  • MostEthicalPimp

    TONY: Just want to point out that Karen Black also died of cancer. Doesn’t look so good for Scientology’s Homo-Novus claims or it’s claims of removal of toxins from the body.

  • madge filpot

    SO much cancer in the small world of Scientology. Crazy. I have had a few friends die of Cancer who were working on their upper OT levels. That and heart attacks. But Cancer seems to be the big one in this group, and whilst I understand Cancer is pretty much epidemic there seems to be a lot of it per capita SCN.

  • Bert Allen

    That treasure chest photo is the perfect metaphor for the COS. Cheap shiney baubles on top poorly hiding nothing but worthless sand below.

    Another OT dies without being able to apply MEST to defeat cancer. May she rest in peace.

    • Roger Hornaday

      I was thinking the same thing. A treasure chest full of riches that when examined a little bit closer turn out to be all plastic!

  • LittleRedSongbird

    68 is young nowadays. All the way to OT8 only to die early anyway.

    • Roger Hornaday

      Indeed, now that I’m in my 60’s 68 is WAY too young to die especially when you’re an OTVIII and supposed to be at cause over life, etc and so forth.

      • Elizabeth Lavet

        But you see all those that died might not have known they were PTS or had SPs around them, making scientology not work. If SPs and being PTS to SPs can cause so much problem, then how powerful or workable is $cientology really?

  • Simi Valley

    When I was bailing from the cult in 2012, the person who helped me most was Eileen Clark, a former SO member who had served many years at Flag and had been Captain Debbie Cook’s secretary for some of those years. Unfortunately, Eileen died in 2013, before she had time to write a series of articles exposing atrocities that she knew of.

    One such atrocity that she told me about was this, which I have posted previously here:

    After Lisa McPherson’s death, DM was very into doing damage control. He ordered the scilon medical doctors not to use any modalities of treatment that could be construed as “alternative” on their scilon patients but only to use standard “textbook” medical treatment. From what I could tell, Dr. Megan Shields, who I used to treat with, complied with his orders, so it would seem that licensed scilon MDs took orders from a high school dropout on how to treat patients. This aligned with my previous memory of Dr. Shields – in the 80s and early 90s, she had been very open to alternative treatments for patients.

    In 2008, when I treated with her, however, I became much worse and bailed from her and her Rx, but I got my medical issues handled successfully with another health care practitioner who practiced “alternative” heath care.

    • MarcabExpat

      Simi, I obviously don’t know what the status of that order is today, but I can tell you that here in 2016, Clearwater is a wretched hive of woo and quackery, and the Scilon healthcare community is in the forefront of that. You really have to be careful there when choosing a physician that you don’t end up with somebody whose treatment will a) consist of placing you in a sound chamber surrounded by crystals, and talking to your body to ask it what’s wrong, or b) be bundled into extended, expensive “packages” which you will be continually pressured to “upgrade.” My husband has actually taken the step of vetting the “specialists” his patients see if they’re getting any care in CW. If he finds something hinky, he politely suggests that they seek additional opinions.

      He has one patient who is extremely ill; every time they sees him they report on all the “miraculous” stuff their one doctor in CW is doing for them. (This patient never gets any better, despite all the miracles.) Hubby (who is not the patient’s primary) was dismayed at what he was hearing, looked up the CW doc, and, you guessed it, he is a VERY well-known Scilon, very high up the bridge, and he has a whole stable of practitioners who fit right in. I won’t name him here, for legal safety, but let’s just say it would be familiar to Bunker readers, and not in a good way. Hubby would be happy to see the patient disentangle themselves from that clinic, but there’s nothing he can really do to make it happen.

      And I don’t mean to sound as though I’m saying everything “alternative” is woo or quackery. We all know MDs can be really rigid in their outlook and blissfully unconcerned about the side effects of what they prescribe, and that they’re not inclined to broaden their options or try something different. I’m just saying that in CW, if you seek “alternative” care, you have a much higher chance than the national average of landing in a clinic where you will pay a huge amount of money to be not helped, and very possibly harmed. And I do think the percentage of practitioners there who are Scientologists has a direct relationship to that reality.

      Put it this way: I would not trust my heath to a Scientologist whether they were practicing “standard” or “alternative” care. I wouldn’t trust them either way because I don’t think a Scientologist can be trusted to make decisions on a simple clinical basis, regardless of what clinical theory base they may be starting from. For them, it’s always really going to be about Scientology, which is “the only thing that can really help.”

      • Simi Valley

        One of the grossest things that scilon health care professionals do with a new scilon patient is ask “Where are you on the Bridge?” and then note down the reply in the patient’s medical chart. I wish I could say that only happened to me once when I lived in El Lay.

        • Observer

          Holy crap

        • MarcabExpat

          GROSS oh gross that is so hateful. Ugh that fills me with rage.

          I’m so glad you’re out, Simi. And so glad you’re here 🙂

          • Simi Valley

            Thanks … me too!

  • David Arum

    The old guard is dying off and there are no replacements.

  • Lousy Ratatouille

    The latest episode of the Sensibly Speaking podcast is very interesting. From about 53.00 Chris and Ruth talk about Randy McDonald’s conspiracy theory.
    Have fun watching:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZlBHOVlrV8

  • Justmeteehee

    As someone whe spent years as an ICU nurse I find it infuriating when I read the stories of the pain she and Denk caused in the name of the cult. So much education and potential good squandered. Allowing the woo to be stronger than common sense is one thing when perpetrated only on oneself but quite unconscionable when perpetrated on others who are at their mercy. I’m not heartless but my sympathy lies with victims who endured quackery to their detriment.
    … You mean bee pollen doesn’t actually cure cancer, couldn’t resist.

    • FredEX2

      It seems that instead of the ‘Hippocratic Oath’ they got lost somewhere and had taken the ‘hypocritical oath’.

      • Justmeteehee

        Exactly FredEX2!

  • Mary

    “…So sorry to hear this. Hurry back Megan.” (barf)
    Rest in eternal peace Megan.

    • Juicer77

      Even then there’s no “thanks for your hard work, you’ve earned a rest.” Nope, it’s “get back on that hamster wheel ASAP Megan!!”

  • Jack99

    Is it time to rewatch this video? All orgs ideal by 2010!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJJxAbwSRgg

    • salin

      Nuts, and very sad.

      • Jack99

        You have a sign in your kitchen that says GIVE MORE, Nancy, it doesn’t say HAVE MORE PIRATE PARTIES!

    • Elizabeth Lavet

      They mention an ideal org. in every neighborhood. then say it has to be the right building in the right place. Investing in extravagant buildings in the right location does not get ideal orgs. into every neighborhood. They are encouraging people to talk nonsense and not think about what they are saying. Their talk is so vague, nothing you can pin down. They don’t even know what scientology is, how would watching a video tell us what it is. Give me a video that lists all the courses offered and their prices, all the paths to clear AND their prices. Give me the cost that 10 RANDOM people paid to go clear and to go OT8. and the time they spent for each service…. including hours auditing. Reveal the general purpose of each level ahead of time and the intended outcome, at the beginning. A little table of content for each course and service. Give me the totals, total hours spent, total money spent, in addition to the break down. Show me a before and after shot, like a before and after losing weight shot, where I can see the difference in someone. Be transparent, then I might know what scientology is. Of course the fact that their platitudes did not bring their dream into being by the year 2010 is probably highly irrelevant to them. So many other questions they should be asking about effectiveness, cost effectiveness, does “ideal org” equal “every neighborhood”, are we telling people the truth. are we lying to ourselves as we lie to the wogs.

      • BronxLaurie10

        YES to everything you just said.

    • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

      Isn’t it only year 66 in the scientoology bubble though? So plenty of time to go.

    • BronxLaurie10

      “You know you will be okay. Not matter what.” No! Hell no.!!!
      “To be able to call up any family member…” Sure, as long as they’re not an SP.

    • BronxLaurie10

      Yes, the world has plenty of problems, but how long has Scientology been around and how much has it done? Wake up!

    • BronxLaurie10

      Morals!! You have the nerve to lecture us “wogs” about MORALS! Ugh. It just upsets me so much. And this woman is talking about her children. All you will do is ruin their lives. Looking at that poor baby knowing what her future will be makes me want to cry.
      I’m sorry, I’ll stop ranting now.

  • Juicer77

    Watch out, Nancy! Next the Sea Arghers will move into your extra rooms since their new ones in the Valley aren’t renovated yet. And what a shame, it will take some time to finish them…

  • Interested2

    Why do so many die of cancer? Surely the ratio appears to be higher amongst scientologists than any other group.?

    • Juicer77

      I have absolutely no medical knowledge, but poor nutrition, little sleep and high stress levels for years can do awful things to a body.

      • shasha40

        Frequent trips to the Fleewinds over the decades … Just throwing that out there .

        • Juicer77

          You’re right. ugh.

      • Smoking and second-hand smoke are everywhere in the cult. Also, who gets checked for colon cancer when you’ve got a planet to save?

      • Ann B Watson

        Hi Juicer77, Thank you.I am using your comment to add some info for others here.There was no medical history of any cancers on both sides of my family.But after only four Tough Sea Org years I got colon cancer at a young age 47.Back then on no Blog and petrified I decided to do traditional medical treatment.Surgery etc.So every six months I still go to my medical oncologist for tests.Then in 2014 I got breast cancer.This time more aware I went right in for surgery and then did weeks of radiation.Then it came back in 2015! Did surgery again and waited thank the universe it was benign.So every six months I do films for my surgeon with that.The thing is through it all I have an incredible appreciation for life and my guides are Love,Light!LaughterAll you shining Lights here and the fact that I have persevered and will continue to try my best.For all the OTs and all who have ever dipped their toe into cos and gotten I sick I send hope and I dream they will somehow see there are other ways beside Ron/David to save a life from this Obnoxious Predatory Disease.Thank you Juicer77 you help me because you are Light too.XO

        • FredEX2

          Ann, ~Thank you for sharing your journey about repeatedly beating cancer. I haven’t told anyone here, except Tony, that I was just diagnosed with cancer about a week ago. I have surgery scheduled in about a week. I wasn’t going to tell anyone here on the Bunker…prefer to think positive. Maybe if I don’t mention it…it won’t be true. Reading the little bit of your story you shared made me feel more hopeful.

          • SciWatcher

            Oh, Fred, I’m so sorry.

            • FredEX2

              Don’t y’all worry about me. I intend to beat it and be just fine. If in the event that I don’t…well according to Scientology’s theory…I’ll get a new body and be back on the Bunker in no time!

              And next time I’ll come back as a brunette with long legs. 😊

          • downtherabbithole

            FredEX2 I am so sorry to hear your news. I can’t imagine what one must go through when receiving such a diagnosis. Wishing you the best recovery/remission.

            • FredEX2

              ~❤️~

          • Justmeteehee

            Too, too much cancer in my world right now, it’s a rough journey but a doable one! Sending you much positive energy and hope! If you have a great Oncologist it’s half the battle.

            • FredEX2

              Yes, I think he’s great. He had me laughing, even thru an uncomfortable procedure. Helps a lot to laugh!

            • bonnydoe

              I had such a oncologist too, great guy, I always left his room with a smile on my face 🙂
              and I dismissed my radiotherapist for giving me a lesser positive feeling….

            • Justmeteehee

              I’m so glad! Laughing helps so much. Myself, my sister and my other sisters hubby were diagnosed within a week of each other two years ago, there have been many more laughs than tears! Two of us are done and clear 😊

            • FredEX2

              Justmeteehee, ~Thank you for telling me that! It helps to know cancer can be beat! Hoping all good things for you and your sister & sister’s husband. 🌺

            • Justmeteehee

              It sure can be, my daughter beat it too! I’m pulling for you and if you ever wanna chat let me know🌻

          • You have over 9000 who love you and hope for your recovery.

            • FredEX2

              Thank you Shorpy. 😘

          • 0tessa

            All the best

          • bonnydoe

            Go for it! I made it too 🙂 (I didn’t talk about it much either at the time)
            Don’t let yourself distract by anyone, just go for the win!

            • FredEX2

              Thank you Bonny! That’s my attitude too.

          • Fred G. Haseney

            Hello, FredEX2. This Fred had cancer 17 years ago from which I’ve survived. If you ever need someone to talk to, feel free to do so via fredhaseney @ gmail dot com.

            • FredEX2

              Thank you Fred! That’s so encouraging to hear that you beat it 17 years ago. You are a Warrior in my book. Thank you!

          • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

            Love you Fred! Others stories are good to hear. My hubby never asked for any advice of friends and acquaintances, but boy, he sure got loads of advice, all different, some good and some significantly bad. After awhile he just kinda kept his conditions sort of quiet and only noted to them how he was doing. Less stressful, even tho they all were trying to help in so many ways. He listened only to doctors and professionals then. It was an amazing adventure to be sure.
            It’s nice to see friends here just loving and thinking of you and sharing their stories.

            • FredEX2

              XO Dee, ❤️

          • BronxLaurie10

            Yes, think positive!
            Sending you good vibs and best wishes.

            • FredEX2

              Thank you Laurie ❤️

          • Ann B Watson

            Hi FredEX2, From my heart to yours-Positive Thoughts Always and I can say the first diagnoses for me was a total shock.I felt like an entire ocean of ice water had broken over me.But I somehow took that step into the unknown world of cancer tracking and in a way it was when I signed that billion year slave contract years ago,that was unknown too.The difference is what I decided to do for my treatment has given me more power not less.The power of knowledge first of all and the power of love.My doc team has been really focused on healing me but also the other parts.I donated tissue to a special study done through my surgeon here,at The John Wayne Institute In La Jolla Cali to help other women when they get my type of breast cancer,using my gene typing to see why mine has so far stopped spreading.I figure if I can give back to someone that needs the results of such a study,then that is good.But honestly I still freak out or have my moments of darkness,however a fire still burns in me and I know in you too.We are survivors of so much.Cancer is but a bump albeit a huge one on our path to wherever we want to be.Sending you waves of love XOplease keep in touch.

            • FredEX2

              Ann, thank you so much for sharing with me. Last week when I found out it was a total shock too. I had a hard time with it for a few days…unable to sleep and worrying about what would happen to my son who is now disabled and relies on me. I appreciate so much the support and encouragement of you and everyone here on the Bunker. It helps so much to know y’all care. ((Hugs))

            • Ann B Watson

              Hi FredX2, I will always be available.If you ever need to scream here is my e-mail abwatson@cox.net.Love love,XO

            • FredEX2

              ~❤️~

            • Ann B Watson

              Hi FredEX2, Thinking of you this week.Here is a little tale that helped me.My first round with breast cancer surgery was very scary.I was freaked out to put it mildly.I had only bumped into Mike Rinder’s Blog and was just starting to move from being skittish to only e-mail him,until he wisely plunked me on the blog.So I was only on a month or so before I was diagnosed.There were and still are some amazing spirits there who really came to my aid.One who was in SO and escaped gave me precious advice.He said, ” Breathe,Relax,Feel Peace.”That became my mantra right thru the whole operation and beyond.He & his wife practice a most beautiful Buddism can’t recall the actual name,but this made a big difference for me.Bless you and your son as you travel this most difficult road.Believe me there is Light at the end of it all.I’m still here and many others too.Love and Big Hugs to you both.XO

          • Ann B Watson

            Hi FredEX2, Thank you from my heart for posting as you have.I so understand how you feel.I did not want any of my cancers to be real either.However I realized that unlike Ron’s World when it came to medicine,I had the power of knowledge,choice and love.So even though I have had set backs and very dark times with this disease I am stronger for it.I cannot tell you exactly how but I feel alot more able to be total master of my own ship because I have to be-able to bend with the winds cancer can buffet me with and not break.I had that fire when I blew The Sea Org after really rotten treatment from GO/I and that fire has never gone out.We are both survivors and I feel you have that fire too.Please if you want please keep in touch with me.I send you waves of love and care.XO

        • Fred G. Haseney

          You always enlighten me with your charm and wit, Ann. I appreciate your online posts, whether they be here, at Mike Rinder’s blog, or elsewhere, A doctor diagnosed me with Testicular cancer in 1999. Following chemotherapy, I’ve been cancer-free for nearly 17 years. A toxic association with a narcissistic, anti-social psychotic (my mom) nearly cost me my life. As I went under the knife to remove the tumor, I cut all ties with her, realizing that her hatred for me had manifested, internally, as self-hatred. By finally fleeing the memories of her wicked behavior, I found myself being able to live, really live, for the first time. The storms that had plagued my existence eased up; I set sail, and every day since cancer is a day I wouldn’t had without proper medical treatment (as well as a little bit of kindness to myself).

          • Ann B Watson

            Hi Fred, An absolutely stunning post for me.Do you know I had from birth and probably before I was born at three months a terrible relationship with my mother. I was born a premie and weighed one pound in 51.In an incubator four and one half months .When I got out in Dec 1951 in Boston by Feb I was living in Hawaii where my paternal grandmothers family had lived for many years.That probably helped save my life as there were no drugs for premie lungs back then and the Boston winters were so cold.Lived in paradise until 55.But besides your brave dance with cancer and your survival,I had an absolutely toxic association with my mother.She nearly cost me my life from the age of five because she beat me regularly with what ever came to hand.And in the fifties no-one ratted her out and many knew about her behavior.But my background contains many privileged,wealthy,family members who believe they hold the keys to the kingdom and therefor bear no responsibility for their actions.My Dad passed in 2005 and my mother in 1999. But what had happened to them both at the end of their lives was weird.They had been married 23 years when they divorced in 73.It was a big deal around Boston.They then married again my mother once and my father three more times.Independent of each other they both passed completely insane as each death cert stated.I was much closer to Dad a brilliant Wall St investor he also had a dark temper and was vey unemotional.My point being that when ever I go under the knife I too feel I am cutting out the negative and I have to say when my Mom passed I was glad she had moved on.I was the oldest by far of four and I was the hated one by far.OK I got some steam up here.Fred I always love your posts on Mike’s on Tony’s & wherever else.Isn’t it really incredible how our paths cross in this way.XXOO

            • Fred G. Haseney

              I’m very glad to hear that Hawaii welcomed you for the first four years of your life. Our moms sure had their way with us. My mom literally dragged, then pushed me at age five into the cellar where I’d spend countless hours staring at the walls, with none to talk to, no toys to play with, not even a toilet to pee in. There were toys mere feet away but mom forbade me to touch them during those punishments. The cellar had a gutter into which I pee’d.

              As I grew a few years older, and discovered what it’s like, sexually, as a little boy, she took to hiding outside my bedroom door and surprised me with beatings if she thought I was doing something a little boy shouldn’t be doing (maybe you’ll get the idea with my actually spelling it out for you).

              At age 17, my dad told me, “If I had it to do all over again, I don’t think I would marry your mom.” That was the longest, one-sided conversation I ever had with my father. He died a horrible death, in a Florida hospice at age 56 (or so), his stomach filled with poisons the result of a bad marriage. That, after a 40-pound tumor that had to be removed.

              Poison. It’s all about the toxicity of a parent telling a child how awful they are. It comes across, clearly, as a message that the kid should never have been born in the first place.

              My mom and I became the best of friends after she made my dad kick out of the house at age 17. Have you ever heard of the phrase, “momma’s boy”? That was me, in spades. I lived for her. I wrote and called her all the time. I sent her cards, presents and good wishes as often as I could. All I did was present offerings to appease the bitch that raised me. Little did I know that every time I heard her voice or received a letter from her, that I was opening wounds and causing myself further hardship.

              My step-father had to get rid of her for a while because she was driving him crazy. So he planned an entire trip for her from New York to Los Angeles, and told me to lie to her; to tell her that it was all my doing, my gift to her. That one-week vacation cost me dearly mentally, spiritually and just about ruined my life. It’s nothing that she did; I brought it all on myself.

              Ten years later, I nearly died from cancer. But I’m here to share my story; to read yours. Thank you.

          • Ann B Watson

            Hi Fred, A gremlin ate my reply to you.Try again.What a stunning post.I thank you from my heart for telling me not only your dance with cancer,but the fact you did chemo and came through it is so special.The thing is I had almost the exact same toxic relationship with my late mother.She was truly wicked toward me many physical encounters with what ever came to hand,until I was 16 and told her never to touch me again.She continued verbally anyway.She passed in 99 diagnosed with insanity and stopped knowing her kids,I was the oldest by far of four,but I got the venom.Each time I went under the knife I too felt that I was cutting her out of me.And when she passed I felt a tremendous relief.For those who do not have a relationship with Mom as I did,it is hard to understand.But it does occur and Fred is proof of the strength that comes from knowing you are the master of your ship and you steer the course.I am being much kinder to myself also.That crept up on me because before cancers I was not as flexible.Now I really appreciate each day.You have been a big favorite of mine since we first postedon Mike’s Blog,here,and wherever else, I am so thankful our paths have crossed.XXOO

            • Fred G. Haseney

              God, that is so sweet… and so honest. I’m very thankful that you told me that when you went under cancer’s knife, it felt like you were cutting your mom out of you. That’s strong stuff. I rarely find anyone with a stomach strong enough to see the poison in such a relationship. As you wrote, not many can understand where we’ve come from if they had a good relationship with one or both parents. The toxicity of what my mom did (physical, mental and even borderline sexual abuse) enabled scientology to easily take me under their wings. “We can help with that,” scientology declared. They never did, by the way. I’m the one who cut all ties with my mom forever less than twenty-four hours before the cancer surgery occurred some sixteen years ago. I felt joyful in telling my mom, once-and-for-all, to “shut the f*ck up and to leave me alone!”

        • Juicer77

          Big hugs to you, Ann. You really are a survivor many times over, and not just of cancer! xoxo

          • Ann B Watson

            Hi Juicer77, Your Light became a rainbow.Thank you for sending it my way.Love You.

          • Ann B Watson

            Hi Juicer77, Your Light just became a rainbow.From my heart thank you for sending it my way.XO

          • Ann B Watson

            Hi Juicer77, Your Light just became a rainbow.Thank you for sending it my way.XO Always

            • Juicer77

              🙂

        • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

          I used to use the Love, Light & Laughter on my closing when I did a column in our magazine. Seeing it from you here gives me the best feeling. So happy you are keeping well after going through so much.

          • Ann B Watson

            Hi Dee, Isn’t that the best feeling when two have a connection that is there.Thankmyou so for your king words.Commenting here & Mike’s has helped me more than you know.Love U & More Love, Light $ LaughterXO

          • Ann B Watson

            Hi Dee, Isn’t it amazing when two have a connection that resonates.Seeing your comment about your column gave me a great feeling too.Posting here and on Mike’s helps more than can be known.XO

            • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

              Yes Anne!

          • Ann B Watson

            Hi Dee, All my replies were erased.Start again.Isn’t it amazing when two can connect as we have! Thank you,seeing that you used that phrase in your column is comforting to me.I will always look for your comments.XO

          • Ann B Watson

            Hi Dee, Something is blocking my replies.Isn’t it amazing when two can connect as we have? Knowing you used that trio in your column gives me the best feeling too.So glad for your good wishes and I look forward to your comments.XO

            • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

              I’m getting them on my Disqus account.

    • Roger Hornaday

      Why don’t they go back into their ‘whole track’ and find out why they ‘pulled it in’ before they die of it?

    • MarcabExpat

      Same reason as Steve Jobs. They don’t often seek standard treatment for it.

    • SarahDB

      I believe that continuing to try to ignore and redefine reality that doesn’t fit with the Co$ doctrine has to take a physical toll on the body as well. Mind and body are much more connected than western medicine acknowledges.

    • Anony-Lurker

      I don’t think it’s higher than the public at large. Plenty of people are still dying of cancer and the number has risen over the years, not gone down. (despite what seems to be reported)

      Possible reasons:
      Bad quality food and water, increase in air pollution, more sedentary lifestyles and probably many other reasons.

      • SciWatcher
        • Anony-Lurker

          Where do you base that from?

        • Anony-Lurker

          Why do you think that is?

          • SciWatcher

            There’s been a lot of discussion about scientologists and cancer deaths, you can see some of it on the links I provided you and above. It makes sense that the death rate is higher: high stress, not taking care of themselves, not going to see real doctors, and the biggest is that they think that auditing can “cure” all diseases, so they don’t get treated until it’s way too late, if at all.

            • Anony-Lurker

              SciWatcher, look at the general public…more stress, people not taking care of themselves (2/3 of the population are overweight and or obese), medicine has become either one size fits all and many cannot afford basic medical care) etc.

              Scientology is a closed community so it’s easy to point to their health deficiencies, but the population at large is not a whole lot better.

              You might be right about the cancer rate, but I would guess it’s just the same as the general population.

            • SciWatcher

              True, but those things are all amplified and concentrated in the closed community of scientology.

      • bonnydoe

        I don’t think you are correct with your statement about cancer deaths… or it must be that you don’t believe the statistics..
        http://www.cancer.org/acs/groups/content/@research/documents/document/acspc-047079.pdf

        • Anony-Lurker

          I’ll have to differ, according to the CDC, the lessor cancers have seen a decline or a longer life span, but the major ones (Lung, Colon, Breast, Prostate) which make up a much higher incidence of people being affected, has risen.

          When you factor in the higher U.S. population, the number has been increasing. If you examine the graphs you posted, they’re per 100,000 people.

          In summery, there are more people developing cancer today than 10 years ago. True more are living longer, but the rate of deaths are increasing as per overall population. Now, again, some drugs have increased life span, but even if the extended life is 6 months, those are factored in as less deaths, per year.

          A much better resource to find the true facts is the CDC.

          Lastly, I do happen to believe in statistics, but stats are not always what they appear to be, they must be looked at carefully, taking into account all variables, very much like a scientific study.

          • bonnydoe

            but you have to take into account that we all live longer… I just looked into the dutch statistics: taking into account the aging of the population and the increasing number of people the death rate is steadily going down, especially for men

    • SciWatcher
  • Roger Hornaday

    I dare anybody to step out of the bubble wearing that “coolest religion on Earth tee shirt”.

    • Juicer77

      ^^^ Confront and shatter, you big thetans!!

      • Ann B Watson

        Hi Juicer77, Yes please in over a Billion pieces and scattered to the depths of the Abyss!XO

    • Ann B Watson

      Hi Roger, I double dare them to wear it!!Love U

      • Roger Hornaday

        Ann, I will if you will! I might need to have a few drinks first though.

        • Ann B Watson

          Hi Roger, You are on. I will order two glasses of old vine Zinfandel and then I am not letting go of your hand but you know,it would be a giggle.XO

        • Ann B Watson

          Hi Roger, You are on!I’ll have two glasses of old vine Zinfandel and then I will not let go of your hand as we seek that tee-shirt.Would be good for a giggle,that thing gave me the blues!XO

    • Elizabeth Lavet

      Why wouldn’t they, if they are sea org. they better be pretty thrifty with their money and wear what ever they have until they get on their feet outside as they probably have very little, many of them anyway. Maybe they could stitch a big X across the saying on the front and make it a conversation about how it is not. Of course they could also use it for a dish rag or to clean the toilet.

  • Jeb Burton

    She will be back. She signed a billion year contract. So she has that going for her.

  • Simi Valley

    Jeannie Deva, another Oatee 8, died of cancer early this year. Supposedly these people were “cause over life” on completing Oatee 7.

    • Roger Hornaday

      Apparently they aren’t cause over DEATH. Maybe that’s OTIX.

  • Fred G. Haseney

    Re: “Megan Shields, the physician Scientology used to vouch for its drug rehabs, dies of cancer”

    As a bubble dweller for 37-years, Shaw Health Center on Fountain Ave., in Los Angeles, took care of most of my medical needs. I first met Dr. Stephen Price (who apparently leaves at a moment’s notice, to galavant the globe in order to please David “Let Him Die” Miscavige’s chiropractic needs) in 1979. As my primary care physician, Dr. Gene Denk gave me an okay to do the Purification Program. When Dr. Denk passed away, I began being treated by Megan Shields. In the late 1980’s, Shaw Health Center treated me for a broken wrist.

    Shaw Health Center employed many scientologists through the years. For many years, Mary Bievenouer wore the hat of Office Manager. Mary is also one of the first scientologists I ever met. At the old Temple Street location for the American St. Hill Organization, Mary handled the Examiner post and became my friend when, in 1977, she said, “Thank you, your needle’s floating.”

    Reconnaissance—Maiden Voyage Update—Week 1—The Stage is Set

    This is Photojournalist Fred G. Haseney with his eye on scientology. The Freewinds Maiden Voyage XXVIII Anniversary is coming to the Pacific Area Command Base (“PAC Base” or “Big Blue”), the so-called “church” of scientology’s West Coast headquarters, located on L. Ron Hubbard Way (“LRH Way”). The excitement is building as final preparations get underway for the first of four such events:

    Saturday, June 25, 2016, Opening Night (aka “Unleashed”): “The Irresistible Power of OT Unleashed!”

    Scientologists are to be seated by 7:30 PM; the events start at 8:00 PM. If you’d like to join in the festivities (that is, join the protest), and you haven’t yet confirmed or RSVP’ed, show up with a protest sign at 6:30 PM, on the north side of Sunset Blvd., where that street meets L. Ron Hubbard Way.

    Posters and fliers with artwork for the “Call Me” campaign are available at the “Graphics” page at Stop Scientology Disconnection. Available for sale are magnetic signs available for the sides of your automobile. Posters that read, “[Fill In Name] call me,” are available for download in PDF and JPG formats. Also available in PDF and JPG are posters that read: “to my loved one in scientology… call me.” In addition, there are “Call Me” fliers (3 such fliers to a page) available in PDF format. UPDATE: A special graphic has been made available, perfect for “Call Me” business cards. There’s also a Facebook “Call Me” banner for your social media needs. Thanks, Phil!

    Buy a magnetic sign, borrow one from someone who has extra, or make your own sign and help us support Phil and Willie Jones in their drive to stop the toxic practice of disconnection. Free their adult children who are still trapped in scientology. See you at the event!

    http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w25/JennyAtLAX/Reconnaissance%20MV%20Update%20Week%201%20The%20Stage%20is%20Set/0%20R-MVU-W1-TSIS%202016-06-24%20DSC05742Z_zpstogvldnd.jpg

    Photo Caption: At 7:30 AM, the parking lot behind the Los Angeles Organization (“LA Org”) is roped off and empty except for one car. In this composite photo, the lone car sits in the lot on the left. I’ve circled a sign on that car’s dashboard. Follow the arrow to the picture in the bottom right-hand corner, where I’ve turned that sign upside down for easy viewing. The sign reads: “Reserved Parking During Events Street Closures. L.R.H. Way Neighbor. 1422 LRH Way Resident.” In the upper right hand-corner, courtesy Google Maps, we learn that “1422 LRH Way” belongs to the woman who owns and maintains the Mother Mary statue that oversees the proceedings on LRH Way.

    http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w25/JennyAtLAX/Reconnaissance%20MV%20Update%20Week%201%20The%20Stage%20is%20Set/0%20R-MVU-W1-TSIS%202016-06-24%20DSC05745_zpsop2d5mvd.jpg

    Photo Caption: This is an entrance from LRH Way into the parking lot behind LA Org. It may be blocked off for everyone except residents.

    http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w25/JennyAtLAX/Reconnaissance%20MV%20Update%20Week%201%20The%20Stage%20is%20Set/0%20R-MVU-W1-TSIS%202016-06-24%20DSC05746_zpshhyw3zj7.jpg

    Photo Caption: Here I’m looking south along LRH Way, where trusses and lighting stands have been erected. An entrance to LA Org is to the right. At the end of the street is Fountain Ave; the Advanced Organization of Los Angeles (“AOLA”) is the blue building on the left side of the street.

    http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w25/JennyAtLAX/Reconnaissance%20MV%20Update%20Week%201%20The%20Stage%20is%20Set/0%20R-MVU-W1-TSIS%202016-06-24%20DSC05752_zpsdvdtbccl.jpg

    Photo Caption: The game plan that PAC Security has for me has changed. In this photo is a Security Guard (“SG”) who walked with me every step of the way. In the past, such a SG would keep their distance. I commented about having my own personal escort and at the end of my walk today, I thanked him for that opportunity. He’s a very polite, courteous and respectful young man. I couldn’t have asked for a better escort.

    http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w25/JennyAtLAX/Reconnaissance%20MV%20Update%20Week%201%20The%20Stage%20is%20Set/0%20R-MVU-W1-TSIS%202016-06-24%20DSC05755_zpso0cjtoqu.jpg

    Photo Caption: This is the Golden Age of Chairs Tech Phase II.

    http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w25/JennyAtLAX/Reconnaissance%20MV%20Update%20Week%201%20The%20Stage%20is%20Set/0%20R-MVU-W1-TSIS%202016-06-24%20DSC05758_zpsxgkt9zog.jpg

    Photo Caption: The end of the street is completely blocked by an elaborate stage.

    http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w25/JennyAtLAX/Reconnaissance%20MV%20Update%20Week%201%20The%20Stage%20is%20Set/0%20R-MVU-W1-TSIS%202016-06-24%20DSC05760_zpsd6qi6zot.jpg

    Photo Caption: Here’s a closeup of that stage. You may notice a huge string of speakers hanging from the left and right sides. Those speakers are products of Meyer Sound.

    http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w25/JennyAtLAX/Reconnaissance%20MV%20Update%20Week%201%20The%20Stage%20is%20Set/0%20R-MVU-W1-TSIS%202016-06-24%20DSC05763_zpsi5fdiwbz.jpg

    Photo Caption: Here’s a shot of the chairs setup on LRH Way as seen from the east side of the street. In the background, the posters have been changed for the event (earlier in the week, there had been four such posters, one for each of the next four weeks). On the left side of the photo, on the grass to the left of a bench that someone sits on, three light fixtures have been removed and lie disassembled.

    http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w25/JennyAtLAX/Reconnaissance%20MV%20Update%20Week%201%20The%20Stage%20is%20Set/0%20R-MVU-W1-TSIS%202016-06-24%20DSC05765_zpsstjt3jkz.jpg

    Photo Caption: During the event for the Flag World Tour, chairs were setup in the parking lot behind LA Org. Before those chairs were setup, a black tarp such as this was laid first. This is the parking lot behind AOLA where tables and chairs will most likely be set up. There won’t be parking here, that’s for sure.

    http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w25/JennyAtLAX/Reconnaissance%20MV%20Update%20Week%201%20The%20Stage%20is%20Set/0%20R-MVU-W1-TSIS%202016-06-24%20DSC05773_zps8kmxqng8.jpg

    Photo Caption: Here’s another picture of the stage. On the left side of the photo are the steps to the stage which are also quite close to AOLA’s front door. Ropes tied from the stage to the orange barricades help anchor the setup, preventing gusts of wind from blowing it away or knocking it over.

    http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w25/JennyAtLAX/Reconnaissance%20MV%20Update%20Week%201%20The%20Stage%20is%20Set/0%20R-MVU-W1-TSIS%202016-06-24%20DSC05777_zpsfolcylxc.jpg

    Photo Caption: This is the right side of the stage. Circled in red is a sound system by Meyer Sound. From their website: “With its exceptional precision and headroom, the patent-pending LEOPARD reproduces the audio source with extraordinary accuracy, captivating audiences with both power and subtle musical detail.”

    http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w25/JennyAtLAX/Reconnaissance%20MV%20Update%20Week%201%20The%20Stage%20is%20Set/0%20R-MVU-W1-TSIS%202016-06-24%20DSC05778_zps0yus4qsy.jpg

    Photo Caption: This is a bank of LEOPARD speakers from Meyer Sound. From their website: “A loudspeaker of many hats. A truly multipurpose system, LEOPARD is ideally suited to everything from mid-sized touring and live theatre to worship and live performance installations, and from symphony music to heavy metal.”

    http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w25/JennyAtLAX/Reconnaissance%20MV%20Update%20Week%201%20The%20Stage%20is%20Set/0%20R-MVU-W1-TSIS%202016-06-24%20DSC05778B_zpszxd5qlps.jpg

    Photo Caption: From Meyer Sound’s website, this picture may give you an idea as to the use of a speaker system such as this.

    http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w25/JennyAtLAX/Reconnaissance%20MV%20Update%20Week%201%20The%20Stage%20is%20Set/0%20R-MVU-W1-TSIS%202016-06-24%20DSC05784_zpsd7v900zz.jpg

    Photo Caption: Here I stand at the corner of LRH Way and Fountain Ave., looking north at the back of the stage.

    http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w25/JennyAtLAX/Reconnaissance%20MV%20Update%20Week%201%20The%20Stage%20is%20Set/0%20R-MVU-W1-TSIS%202016-06-24%20DSC05787_zpssh2cwph2.jpg

    Photo Caption: The chairs setup in this photo represent, perhaps, only a quarter of the chairs to be setup. The red arrows point out the speakers that line both sides of LRH Way, almost to LA Org’s front door. Just imagine all that sound bouncing off of Kaiser Permanent Medical Center, the building seen at the end of LRH Way.

    (The shirt logo for today’s “featured image,” taken in front of a sign for LA Org on LRH Way reads: “Pacifica Bridge. I’m staying through OT V.” That’s “Operating Thetan Level 5,” the highest level of auditing one can achieve at PAC Base. For levels higher than OT 5, one must travel to the Flag Land Base, I believe, located in Clearwater, Florida.)

    Originally posted to JennyAtLAX, “Reconnaissance—Maiden Voyage Update—Week 1—The Stage is Set.”
    https://jennyatlax.wordpress.com/2016/06/24/reconnaissance-maiden-voyage-update-week-1-the-stage-is-set/

    • shasha40

      Why does it take so long to set up these “Events” ? I mean come on , if ever there was a time to “postulate ” shit . I’m beginning to think all those Sooper Powerz are BS !!! Think about it for a minute , then leave . The wog world’s got actual freedom out here ! Blow !!!

    • “…the Mother Mary statue that oversees the proceedings on LRH Way.”
      Oh HELL YEAH!
      I had never heard about it. Props to that woman.
      Thank you Mr. Google.
      (refresh?)

      • Fred G. Haseney

        Yesterday, a kind soul left an offering for Mother Mary as she kept an ever-vigilant watch over L. Ron Hubbard Way: a loaf of Ezekiel 4:9 (“The Live Grain Difference!”) bread by Food for Life. Notice the strand of lights (lit at 7:30 AM) draped over Her. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/65f384e0a641518a30294afd4d5aeeed50109c63b40b1262a461e7d51470ab66.jpg

        • It looks like she has been given a greater place of prominence since the Google Street view in 2015.

          • Fred G. Haseney

            Yes, She stands on Higher Ground.

        • MadMaxi

          I love this house and the blunt in your face vigilance of the owner, and the local people who adorn Our Lady with flowers and gifts. If i had the money I would give it to her, Cathy?, to know she is supported, and if I ever have the means to travel to LA her backyard shrine is where I would set up shop and just sit/stand and pray on the public sidewalk. If I knew of local Catholic churches nearby I would arrange weekly rosary gatherings right there because, ya know, religious freedoms cover all religions even on LRH Drive. The cult could not do anything about people openly practicing their religion outside their front door on public property.

      • Kid Kat

        The last I heard of Cathy was her telling AGP that they were harassing and threatening her for the purpose of making her move out so they can purchase her house.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghtfcHThPsM

    • Looking at the chairs, we have 11 wide by 15 long which equals 165 chairs.

      If that is a quarter of the chairs 4 * 165 = 660 chairs

      So a huge crowd is expected. Not.

      • Fred G. Haseney

        For the first time ever, a PAC Security Guard on a bicycle showed up with the event permit the day before the event. I visited the festivities last night at 8 PM. First, he arrived, and radioed in my presence as I took pictures from L. Ron Hubbard Way. Then he left, and returned with the permit. I’ve only been shown the permit on the day of the event, and by a policeman.

        “GET HIM OUT OF HERE!” someone yelled from the parking lot outside the Los Angeles Org. In the picture, one of the people is Ken Long of the Office of Special Affairs. Notice that the parking lot behind LA Org has become a programming and indoctrination center for all the pod people who will be attending the Freewinds Maiden Voyage XXVIII Anniversary this evening.

        “I’m sorry,” the Security Guard said respectfully, “but you have to leave or I’ll have to call the police.” I obliged, not before taking a few more photos (from a safe distance) of Ken and his accomplices as they excitedly spoke on the phones to other accomplices about my being there.

        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ab942df030875498b75f4d09a4bf7b2e53f9324048b8db686b8686f4bdfc68be.jpg

        • Missionary Kid

          They’re obviously learning. When I challenged them several months ago, it took about 5 to 10 minutes to produce the document, and they seemed to be frantic about it. It made them frantic to get the signs posted when the LAPD officer pointed out that they had neglected to post the other end of the sidewalk I was on. They were pissed to be made fools of.

          When we protested at SuMP, they never did produce it, but you and AGP got around it by being on private property.

          The question for them is, “What are you afraid of?”

          • Fred G. Haseney

            I would hate to be a Sea Org member with the likes of us to deal with! Photo Caption: The Golden Age of Shrub Tech Phase II, near the corner of Sunset Blvd., and LRH Way, 8 PM, Friday night. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4ca65afee5ae9825bb5c4eaa0cd6b23cff83d5a6bf41f2e1baa7cf88b0ddaa4c.jpg

            • Missionary Kid

              I’m wondering where they rented the shrubbery from. There must be some pest that loves to eat shrubbery, but that would take too long, and it wouldn’t be good for the business that rents them out.

            • If that’s on a public footpath, and somebody injures themselves tripping over over it, it he CofS legally liable. Just wondering.

        • Did the permit cover the day you took this picture?

          Glad to see that

          A) You are having an impact
          B) Scientology’s confront and shatter is working as well as usual

          • Fred G. Haseney

            Yes, the event permit covered the day I took that photo, Fri., June 24, 2016. I only got a chance to view one page of that document for a moment, but I remember it said that the permit covered the period June 23 to June 26.

            God, yes, something I’m doing is creating an effect that scientology can’t have! This is just another nail in scientology’s coffin (Hi, OSA! Hi, Janet Weiland! Hi, Odo G. Huber! Hi, Kendrick Moxon!)

            • You didn’t have the good sense and good graces to die, and you look far happier than you ever did while in the church. To them that is dangerous indeed.

            • Fred G. Haseney

              Happy = good. Scientology-free = best!

    • salin

      Almost like being there. Thanks, Fred.

      So tonight, folks will be shepherded in, at their expense, to listen to long, mind-numbing speeches (for how long might such an event last?), standing and cheering on cue, concluding with an intense regging session. Yikes!

    • Aurora Aura

      I very much look forward to your posts, Fred. Thank you for all you do. You’re getting to them, obviously. Keep safe and smart while spreading love. Wish I could be out there with you all.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Have a great time tonight Fred, and above all, stay safe.

      • Fred G. Haseney

        “Stay safe,” indeed! This is, of course, being written after an event I never got to attend.

  • When I commit my immortal soul to a religion, I want it to be the “Coolest Religion Ever” because that’s VERY IMPORTANT to me. When I’m in heaven, I want to sit at the cool table.

    • Hubbard has been to Heaven, twice! It’s no big deal.

      • He said it was kind of shabby the second time he went. I was thinking maybe we could get a Habitat for Heaven group going and do some rehabilitation. Maybe spiff up the pearly gates, St. Peter’s office, etc.

        • Then we could have a ribbon cutting for Ideal Heaven?

          • chukicita

            Now *there’s* a fundraising cornucopia!

        • Draco

          Extreme Makeover – Heaven?

      • Justmeteehee

        No worries, when the wee one gets there he’ll make it Ideal, then yank a ribbon at the pearly gates. After renovation he’ll be directed to the elevator on the right that only has a down button.

      • pluvo

        Hubbard knew all about Heaven:

        For a long while, some people have been cross with me for my lack of co-operation in believing in a Christian Heaven, God and Christ. I have never said I didn’t disbelieve in a Big Thetan but there was certainly something very corny about Heaven et al. Now I have to apologize. There was a Heaven. Not too unlike, in cruel betrayal, the heaven of the Assassins in the 12th Century who, like everyon else, dramatized the whole track implants – if a bit more so.

        Yes, I’ve been to Heaven. And so have you. And you have the pattern of its implants in the HCO Bulletin Line Plots. It was complete with gates, angels and plaster saints – and electronic implantation equipment. So there was a Heaven after all – which is why you are on this planet and were condemned never to be free again – until Scientology.

        Before you went to Heaven you were not really very bad or very good, but you didn’t think you had lived only once and you had a good memory and knew who you were and enjoyed life. Afterwards — The symbol of the crucified Christ is very apt indeed. It’s the symbol of a thetan betrayed.

        […]

        The implant station existed on the order of magnitude of 43,000,000,000,000 years ago. (The dates may be part of the implants but do not appear so at this time. However, a possibility of correction of dates is reserved).

        It goes on … http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/cult/hcob-1963-05-11-routine-3-heaven-ex.html

    • That T-shirt made me chuckle because when I raided the Chicago org before Tony’s event, one of my signs said “Scientology is Cool!”
      Of course lulz were had with the passers-by.

  • Len Zinberg

    According to the Scientology Service Completions list, OT 8 Scientologist Dr. Megan Shields last recorded action, after completing virtually every course and offering, including the L’s and the Briefing Course…was to re-do the Hubbard Apprentice Scientologist course, thus completing her metamorphosis from physician to being another hamster running in circles on Hubbard’s wheel.

    • Draco

      From OT8 to the Comm Course… SMH. And as long as people will put up with this crap from Miscavige, it will go on – Re-do level one as an OT!! Whoopee!

      • chukicita

        From *med school* to the comm course… smh!

  • Panopea Abrupta

    Adolf Hitler and Eva Braun committed suicide on April 30th, 1945.
    Fifteen years later to the day, DM was born.

    Sheryl Crow wrote him a song this morning 🙂

    Shun, Davey, Shun
    He was born on a Saturday, 1960
    The same date Adolf Hitler died
    And his papa believed
    Dave’s asthma would flee
    So his papa to St. Hill did fly
    And his kiddies took up the cans
    Making all the PCs wrong
    And he pictured all the places
    Where he knew DM belonged
    But he sailed and Ron taught him young
    The only thing he’d need to harry on
    Was to
    Shun, Davey, shun, Davey, shun, Davey, shun,
    Davey, shun

    Piss on the charms of family
    Who he stalks, more fettered ways
    Take the comfort from strangers
    Slipping out before the cray
    Of El Ron
    Davey’s got to shun

    He counts out all his money
    The IAS taxing is his way to drive insane
    Stares scowling out the window
    At Sea Orgers frightened
    Through the pouring pain
    He’s searching through the nations
    To con an unfamiliar throng
    And he’s thinking ’bout the places
    That he knows he’s done them wrong
    And he smiles, his secrets vile
    That’s sure he knows exactly
    How to run a con

    So shun, Davey, shun, Davey, shun, Davey, shun,
    Davey, shun

    The old family faces
    And their old familial ways
    Stake the hearts of strangers
    Slipping out before the cray
    Of El Ron
    Davey loves to shun

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KzTMN-S1tbs

  • aquaclara

    Is it Sea Org or union labor putting the sets together for the events? Is there not a rule that union labor must be used when setting up scaffolds, lighting and sets? I’m just curious.

    • ze moo

      Whom ever owns the equipment decides on who sets it up. Almost always their employees. Would you trust expensive speakers to a SO 16 year old?

  • aegerprimo

    I remember Megan Shields was on the Freewinds as it was being refitted and renovated before its maiden voyage in the late 1980’s. Her father was also aboard the Freewinds, I think a Sea Org member (like myself) at the time. I don’t remember his name.

    Pluvo! I’m sure you can add some details to this.

    I’m now a person trained in a medical profession, a mere nurse, yes….. I cannot understand how a DOCTOR could be an advocate for Narconon and L Ron Hubbard’s “detoxification” ….. crap. Even someone who has BASIC training in anatomy and physiology and pharmacology knows that chemicals and are not stored in fat cells. They know radiation is a cumulative effect and …. the red flush from taking niacin is not a good thing, it is a side effect from an overdose of the vitamin.

    • Elizabeth Lavet

      So when I flush with a very small dose of niacin (25 mg), it is an over dose for me?

      • Sidney18511

        Maybe you should try the “no flush” niacin.

        • Missionary Kid

          Even that has its problems. Read the research.

        • Elizabeth Lavet

          Done. ..

        • Elizabeth Lavet

          Done, just did not want to be “over dosing” just because it is a no flush type, if flushing actually means over dose. For some treatments the no flush type niacin does not have the same effect as the flushing type and is not recommended in those cases, or so they claim.My doctor told me to ignore the flush, that it was normal. But this was years ago.

          • Missionary Kid

            As Miss Candle posted, the latest research shows niacin not to be that effective for cholesterol treatment. http://tonyortega.org/2016/06/25/megan-shields-the-physician-scientology-used-to-vouch-for-its-drug-rehabs-dies-of-cancer/#comment-2750028686 The advice you got was years ago.

            • Elizabeth Lavet

              You will note that Sidney 18511 states right above Miss Candles statement that some doctors are still prescribing it. Also, it was not low dose niacin, as mentioned by Miss Candle, that I was referring to, it is high dose in the form of nicotinic acid for lipids. My point was not to argue about what it is used for and whether it is correct/effective or not but to say that doctors are using niacin in high doses and have used niacin in high doses for a variety of medical issues, mood elevation (550 to 1500 mg), to effect lipid profile (up to 3000 mg) for years. I question how strong a case any of us could make that $ceintology/Narconon is damaging people automatically by claiming the high doses are toxic, which I do not think has been proved based on past usages. I believe I have seen very recent research that it is not toxic at very high doses, can’t locate that. Of course people should be monitored by a doctor and blood work, in my opinion, during any program given high doses of any vitamin. But when we start talking about how fat cells absolutely do not have stored toxins and niacin is toxic at high levels when it was fairly commonly used at high levels, and recent research shows adipose tissue does store toxic pesticides etc., then we look like we are not fairly and rationally criticizing a program. We look unbelievable. When we condemn a detox sauna program as a whole when respected doctors are using sauna detox programs, instead of criticizing the particular problems, I don’t think it gets us anywhere. Yes, some doctors, looking just at the RDA for niacin might jump on the band wagon that it is toxic at the high levels, maybe it is. It is far from proven to me. Some doctors will disagree with using sauna to detox, you might too. I think strong points are to compare a sauna detox program responsibly run for a fragile compromised patient population with how Scientology does it. Environmental doctors use 30 minute rounds in the sauna, not 4 hours at a time; much lower sauna temperature, monitoring of temperature and blood pressure by nurses between each round with a doctor on the same floor versus no doctor, no nurses, no monitoring, and excuses of reactivation of past toxins when health issues arise in Scientology. You know, the beauty of being out of the cult, you can say anything you want and you don’t have to think anyway you don’t want to. So have at it you all. Say whatever you want. I do care, but had my say, and heard your disagreements.

            • Missionary Kid

              First, when you are talking about doctors, are you referring to MDs? For what reason would a doctor recommend a sauna? Yes, toxins do reside in tissue, but niacin is a soluble compound the toxins that stay in tissue are not. There is no evidence that sweating in a sauna is a very effective means of removing toxins.

              Alcohol, for example, is mostly removed by the liver and metabolized, with urine also being a means of removal from the body. Respiration and sweat are much further down the list in getting rid of it. Alcohol is a soluble compound, as are other drugs.

              The reason that drugs are as effective on the body is because they are metabolized, while generally, toxins are not.

              The research done on niacin for cholesterol came out, IIRC relatively recently, and it studied a fairly large population (3,414). It showed that, for reduction of cholesterol, the previous research was not correct. If that is one’s concern, there are far more effective ways of lowering cholesterol.

              http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1300955#t=article

              Yes, I know that Dr. David Williams is critical of the study, but he’s a chiropractor, and, as such, has very little training in biochemistry, regardless of his claims. If he had a post-graduate degree in it, I might believe him.

              For questions on the effectiveness of drugs, pharmacists are an excellent source for information.

      • aegerprimo

        I don’t know why you are taking niacin, and if per doctor’s orders.

        People who do L Ron Hubbard’s “Purification Rundown” which is part of the Church of Scientology … “Bridge to Total Freedom” and part of the program at Narconon… they take hundreds and up to thousands of milligrams (mg) of niacin per day.

        • Sidney18511

          Some dr”s still recommend it to lower cholesterol.

          • Missionary Kid

            I read the literature on the research, and, yes, it has been used to lower cholesterol, but it is relatively ineffective in comparison with other drugs and change of diet. The side effects can be devastating.

            • Draco

              It has a very tiny effect on cholesterol – certainly not worth the side effects and discomfort of the flush.

            • Missionary Kid

              Exactly.

              About 50 years ago, I had a wisdom tooth extracted while I was in the Marines, and the Navy Dr. [Edit: dentist] prescribed Niacin (aka, nicotinic acid) to supposedly increase blood flow to help healing. I found my head throbbing and had other weird sensations, went back to him, and he discontinued the prescription.

            • Elizabeth Lavet

              Devastating? Very uncomfortable?

          • Missionary Kid

            The amount taken in the purif is far over the recommended dosage to lower cholesterol (near toxic level) and it’s a lousy way to lower it. See my other reply.

          • aegerprimo

            Okay.

          • Missionary Kid

            Go to the PDR and check the dosage.

          • MissCandle

            My Mayo Clinic primary care physician recommended I take low-dose non-flush niacin to lower cholesterol. A year later she told me that studies proved it was not effective for that purpose and to quit taking it. FYI.

            • Missionary Kid

              Exactly. That’s what I ran into when I did a search on niacin.

        • Elizabeth Lavet

          I was referring to Your statement: ” the red flush from taking niacin is not a good thing, it is a side effect from an overdose of the vitamin.”
          Many people flush from multiple vitamins that have low dose niacin, unless it has the no- flush form of niacin. Me included. I am well aware that L Ron Hubbard program uses high doses, as do many doctors treating high cholesterol. Thought maybe you had inside information about the flush being linked to overdose and not being a good thing. I was told by my doctor to ignore it, that it was normal. But this was a long time ago. I have great respect for nurses.

          • Missionary Kid

            If it’s “many doctors”, then they haven’t read the research.

          • aegerprimo

            Well any reaction you have to anything you take …. vitamin or drug, you should tell your doctor. A slight side effect for you could be a major allergic reaction and/or contradiction to something else (i.e, another drug, food, etc).

          • aegerprimo

            Girl, I’m not a doctor! I only know that the Scientology Purification Rundown crap… by L Ron Hubbard requires the consumption of 100’s to 1000’s milligrams of Niacin. And the EXTREME red flush the people experience doing the “rundown” is supposedly them releasing radiation they have been exposed to from their body.

            Quack science, I know.

            Check out Tony’s article

            http://tonyortega.org/2013/06/11/precious-bodily-fluids-scientology-and-the-purification-rundown/

          • Missionary Kid

            Why even take niacin as a supplement? The no-flush dosage is at least quite low, IIRC.

          • Missionary Kid

            Maximum prescribed dosage for niacin is 25 mg. It also interacts with a lot of other drugs and obviously, there are synergistic effects, so it would be a good idea to consult with an MD familiar with it.

            One problem with taking niacin as a supplement is that it is a part of a healthy diet. IMO, taking it as a supplement may be putting someone over the limit.

            • aegerprimo

              Yes.

    • aquaclara

      You talented nurses run hospitals, care and treat patients, spot symptoms and train docs, too. Take that “mere” outta there!

      And YES to saying NO to the woo.

      • aegerprimo

        I say “mere” because we don’t go to school as long as doctors do. And there is the point… Megan Sheilds… a doctor…. should know better. I think by being an advocate for Narconon and L Ron Hubbard’s “Purification Rundown” she abandoned the Hippocratic Oath for all her patients.

        First do no harm…

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath#Modern_version
        ETA: http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=20909

        • Missionary Kid

          Part of the Hippocratic oath should be, “second, stop believing shit, and prescribing quack cures.”

          • aegerprimo

            I think Hippocrates was thinking about that when he wrote the oath… that doctors would not be quacks and do the best they can for their patients.

            Anyway, that is the way I understand it.

            Did you know, my moniker – aegerprimo – Aeger Primo means …. patient first (in Latin).

            • Missionary Kid

              It is a great moniker. Unfortunately, true believers among doctors think that they are doing the best for the patient when they prescribe ineffective nostrums that they believe in.

            • aegerprimo

              MK… you have been around the block a few times more than me and you KNOW that people can be bought. Even in the OR (operating room) where I work, there are reps (aka sales people) hovering around the surgeons, trying to sell their product.

              The same with pharmaceuticals.

              But then there are people who really care about the patient, and don’t care so much about making big bucks. Such peeps range from doctors to nurses.

              Just sayin’.

            • Missionary Kid

              Did you see the latest study that said that doctors can be bought by reps for as little as a free meal? It’s been all over the news.

              It really should say that they are influenced to prescribe the brand that the rep is advocating. It’s not a 1:1 ratio, but the influence is there.

            • aegerprimo

              I’m not surprised. I live in the United States of America… where corporations rule.

              If you have a lot of CHA-ching… money, you rule.

              Which brings us back to my original point.

              Narconon – based on L Ron Hubbard’s “Purification Rundown”, is financed by the Church of Scientology, which has A LOT of money. I think it is awesome that Jeffery Augustine (aka J Swift) is making the connections – https://scientologymoneyproject.com/2015/09/03/the-real-truth-of-scientologys-narconon-drug-treatment-program-is-body-thetans/

              People who are medically trained, most of them REALLY want to help people and are trained in science, and would not fall for quackery medicine unless they are insane, and and would not be bought if the really cared about caring for people.

              ~~rant over~~

              Thank you for letting me vent MK.

            • Missionary Kid

              Vent away.

              Hey, my mother was an RN for over 40 years, also a midwife, my ex., an RN and pediatric nurse-practitioner, and one sister an RN. It’s given me a healthy respect for the medical profession, but also a healthy dose of skepticism.

              Another sister was going to be sliced and diced by a surgeon in Georgia, but my RN sister had her come out to San Diego for a second opinion. The condition was diagnosed more precisely, (stones blocking a duct) my sister changed her diet, and the problem was taken care of.

            • aegerprimo

              And drink lots of water.

            • aegerprimo

              Often reps buy meals for all OR personnel. We had a Chick Fil’A breakfast this past week. I don’t remember the rep. I think it was for a new skin glue or something. I just said… “Thank you for breakfast, I was damn hungry.”

            • beauty for ashes

              I just read an article that buying meals for all staff is the most effective way to get a Dr to prescribe/use drug/product! That’s so funny. I guess the way to our heart really is through our stomach.:)

            • aegerprimo

              Yeah, peeps in the medical biz get hungry. We do not get breaks to eat or pee. So… free food and a near-by potty is a big deal for us.

            • On the plus side, there is the rise of meta studies and evidence-based medicine. Such people are not really members of the profession any more, and are forced to operate in isolation from it.

            • Free Minds, Free Hearts

              Oh! I never knew that was where your name came from – thank you so much for all you do, aeger primo!

            • My friends motto is Semper Inebriate. I’m not sure that’s good Latin, but it is appropriate.

            • aegerprimo

              Always intoxicated?
              ROFL!

            • daisy

              I had no idea Aeger Primo meant that. How cool.

    • pluvo

      It was Bill Shields. A very friendly person, like a grandpa person for the crew. He was in the Port Captain’s Office and interacting with the local people a lot. I remember he telling amused that he was talking Spanish like a Latino but looking like a Gringo and that Spanish speaking people got puzzle about it. Then one day he was gone, I don’t know why (maybe because of his age). I don’t really remember anything about Megan Shields from the Ship.

      • aegerprimo

        Yes, Bill. He was a very nice man.

    • Missionary Kid

      Unfortunately, doctors can have some strange beliefs, because they are human. Belief (and emotions) often rule logic and scientific evidence. $cientology is a prime example of that.

      • aegerprimo

        Yeah. You are preaching to the choir. I was an engineering student when I joined the Cult of $cientology. For some reason, my critical thinking skills were really lacking back then.
        When I went back to school for nursing and almost three years ago now graduated, I took a critical thinking class…. where was that when I was in High School?

        • Missionary Kid

          Most high schools don’t have critical thinking courses, unfortunately.

          • aegerprimo

            Yeah, very unfortunately.

        • Aurora Aura

          Ugh what a great point about critical thinking classes. High schools really lack in preparing students for any part of real life. Critical thinking in the curriculum would benefit the student, and society at large, immensely.
          Aegerprimo, great nurses are so valuable to patients and families. Thank you for what you do.

          • aegerprimo

            Thank you SO MUCH for your comment Aurora Aura. ♥

    • salin

      Rant on, aegerprimo, rant on!!!!

      • aegerprimo

        I will!
        When I rant, I seriously rant.

        • Dice ✓

          🙂

    • Elizabeth Lavet

      http://www.wellnessresources.com/weight/articles/why_toxins_and_waste_products_impede_weight_loss_-_the_leptin_diet_weight_l/ Here is a link to one article about toxins storing in fat mentioning some studies that back this. Do I believe the sauna program as run by Narconon is safe, no. I think it is dangerous, especially with a fragile population. I also do not think their program is a complete drug treatment by any lengths, in case my comments may lead anyone to think this. I just am not sure your statements are as 100% for sure as your statement indicates. I am also not going to argue whether the sauna program removes toxins or not. Each to his own. Many doctors do use sauna programs and recommend them to help their patients detox, but usually at much lower temperatures than Hubbard program.

      • Missionary Kid

        Sorry, but the guy you’re referring to is a “certified nutritionist” and is pushing his pills. There’s a lot of unsupported (by clinical, peer reviewed sources) assertions made on that blog. There is also a fair amount of accurate statements, but they’re mixed together.

        Yes, there are sometimes problems with certain biases in medical research, but peer reviews help to eliminate them.

        Talk about having a motive for pushing pills! You’re following the lead of a misguided person, if not a quack, IMO.

        • aegerprimo

          I agree MK.

      • aegerprimo

        Checked out your link. A “nutritionist” is NOT a doctor, or a nurse. A “nutritionist” degree, or training is very nebulous. Licensing and certification is nebulous. Google it.

        • Elizabeth Lavet

          Really, is this all you got out of what I said and seeing fat stored toxins mentioned? Did nothing in that whole write up give you the slightest idea that perhaps there might be even more research out there indicating toxins may be stored in adipose tissue, fat? I don’t care who wrote it. I do care there was mention of studies that sound interesting and substantial. It was the best I could do in a few seconds to give the idea that there is research that shows toxins are stored in adipose tissue. Google toxins stored in fat, go to pub. med. I don’t want to talk about it anymore but appreciate the fact you went to the link. Think what you want.

      • Here’s a link to an examination of a ‘scientific’ paper about ‘toxins’ stored in fat.https://scicrit.wordpress.com/2015/01/16/a-scientific-paper-about-narconon-financed-by-the-church-of-scientology-and-written-by-scientologists-what-could-go-wrong/

        There’s no substitute for research and good judgement in assessing such claims. If a minor journal can be gamed in this way, perhaps we should approach the claims of slick and profitable website, written by someone who does not reference his qualifications, with some scepticism.

        • Elizabeth Lavet

          I am always very leery of people doing research connected with that research financially, interpreting the research, and reporting on it. Yikes!.. Interesting article. Thanks In my link I just quickly searched “toxins stored in body fat” and saw there were numerous studies and links, so forwarded one of the links, an article I briefly scanned listing some studies, some done by the government, which is not always great either. I really don’t have time to look into it in depth but am leery of any of us making absolute statements that won’t hold up. I do know some studies have been done quite well on fat containing toxins etc. Each person can post what they want to though. I recently saw I doctor say in a youtube video that the body cannot burn ketones. I was a nutritional research with a team of 12 researchers backing him up but because he favors vegetarian diets and had written a book indicating low fat plant based diets could do this or that, I suspect he felt his work and book threatened by ketogenic diet information. He made several more statements that were false about a diet that was not his, a diet of sufficient amount of meat/protein, low carb, high fat. He is supposedly fairly representing nutritional research his team gleans for all the studies they read. They have an agenda, they don’t like something, so they misrepresent it. The ketogenic or Low carb High fat, LCHF diet has been used for years by John Hopkins medical to treat epilepsy. More news is coming out about its possible benefits with specific populations. The truth is there is not one right diet for everyone. However, this doctors extremely wrong statements made me not trust him or his book and I was only willing to look again at what he had said in his book when my professor, whom I had not seen in a year, told me he lost 50 pounds following this doctors book advice. I was turned off not by his message in his book but his irresponsible negative information about another possible diet, another choice for someone. He had a conflict of interest that made him speak ill of something when he did not need to. He could have limited himself to the truth. But he distorted the truth and made flat out false statements and lost his creditability with many people. $cientology is not the only group that has researched toxins in body fat. I really don’t want our group to be embarrassed because we repeat something or say something in a very declaratory way that is not actually for sure at all. Others have corrected me very kindly when I needed to see the bigger picture and I appreciated them helping me not embarrass myself. Truth is, in medicine you can find doctors on either side of most issues and always someone ready to call someone else a quack. Few will simply say they maybe right but it is not something I believe in, they make clear declarations. A month before margarine was declared dangerous in the media, many of the students in my nutrition class had already read for many years of its danger and ask my professor about it. He denied any truth in it. A major university. Then finally it hit the news enough that the establishment had enough courage to make changes. There is quite a bit of work done by doctors wanting to help their environmentally damaged patients on the issue of toxins in the fat, it the breast milk of mothers, and detoxing those toxins, some through sauna programs. I have not studied those studies. From my experience $cientology and Narconon, does not adequately monitor their programs, leave people in saunas too long, use to high a temperature. I believe the are causing people damage and likely death. Medicine has used high dose niacin, as high as the sauna programs are using, for years. There is at least debate as to weather there is liver or body damage from that.

          • Science progresses by extablishing concensus. There will always be outliers, and the danger is for people to cherry-pick research which supports their cherished ideas. These people are often exploited by commercial interests, which present the in the media to cast doubt on a concensus that damages their interests.

            I’m not denying the existance of water soluble toxins which will be found on body fat, if you are exposed. I’m questioning the quack medics who tell us that we are full of toxins and only they can treat us to get rid of them… for a price. The toxins that we generate ourselves, are filtered and disposed of by natural processes, if you are reasonabley healty.

            It’s only when this process breaks down (eg kidney failure) that you need external help to remvoe toxins (e.g. dialysis). The fact that dialysis is so complex and demanding must make you wonder about the effectiveness of ‘treatments’ like sitting in a sauna.

            This kind of ‘Detox’ is a business proposition which is so vague it can’t be scientifically examined and, like the ‘purif’, its vendors mercilessly cherry-pick papers that examine rare situations and misrepresnt them as supporting their general thesis but within the scientific community, thier pitch is dismissed because it simply makes no sense to a specialist.

        • Elizabeth Lavet

          The link you gave me talks about Hubbard’s general program in the 1950s being based on theory as a hypothesis, not researched. Does not seem to me to be about current research on toxins in fat. It says: “Hubbard’s central claim was that drugs (and ‘radiation particles’) are stored in the body’s fat cells, and can be ‘reactivated’ in times of stress, unless the user’s body is ‘detoxified’ by a programme which includes taking long saunas and overdose quantities of vitamins and minerals (notably Niacin). This is termed the ‘The Purification Rundown’ and presented in his book “Clear Body Clear Mind“.”

          • That’s the “current reseach” which you “are sure is out there” but decline to provide? Please see my other reply.

            The linked post actually states that Hubbard’s program was based on the assertion that fat cells stored drugs, and was so self-evidently wrong that Scientologists had to pay to publish an article in a journal with a poor reputation (which presented speculative ideas, not research) to get a ‘scientific’ reference they could misrepresent in Narconon ads.

            They also refernce ral scientific papers in their advertising which investigate the presence of some, rare, water soluble toxic substances in fat cells (and other tissues if they are water-soluble). This is also a misreprentation.

            The claim made both by Hubbard and the website you mentioned earlier, is that fat cells contain a variety of toxins which do you harm and can be ‘flushed’ with an expensive treatment. This is wrong because no ‘treatment’ which proposes to remove stuff that isn’t there in the first place, can possibly work.Besides, this job is already done by bowels, bladder liver aand kidneys.

            If you have evidence for this, please present it.

        • Elizabeth Lavet

          This article you linked for me to read has nothing to do with research into toxins stored in fat. It is an article pointing out that a journal published a paper written by Scientologists about the Narconon/Scientology sauna program stating the paper is based on hypothesizes not science. It does not sound like the journal was gamed but is a journal that publishes articles bases on hypothesizes rather than straight science. It states what Hubbards idea of sauna detox was and points out why this article is not good science – because it is not science.. As to whether fat cells store toxins, I am sure the research is out there to your satisfaction if you care to go to Pub. Med. or google some more. If you don’t care to, fine. I am always leery of research done by any group that stands to benefit from the research, both doing and interpreting the research, but your link is not talking about research.

          • Quite. And the website you referred to was written by someone without apparant qualifications who submsitted no references to suport his claim. he attempted to pass a faulty claim by assertion. The Scientologists took a sneaker route, but they both faile to support their case utterly.

            Re the Scientoloigsts, perhaps I should have said that the public was gained, because they use references from that journal everyhere to support their ‘fat cells store drugs’ nonsense. Once they had obtained publication, they presented a hypothesis as science.

            The website guy had no apparant qualifications and provided no refernces. He relied on assertion to make his implied claim to scientific validity. If you are suspicious of claims made by people who have something to gain from a particular result, you should not have mentioned the website, because the owner is running a business, and presented no evidence. You can’t be selective about this. You have to apply it to everybody.

            The reason the Scientologists had to manufacture pseudo-evidence for this claim is that it is self-evident nonsense which contradicts our basic understanding of science. There are some substances, like heavy metals which persist in bodily tissues but the claim that fat tissues (which ones) store toxins (which ones) is vague to the point of incoherence. Besides, healthy people have bowels and bladders and livers and kidneys which routinely do an excellent job of getting rid of most other toxic substances.

            Also, it would be impossible to investigate such a claim because you couldn’t devise an experiment to meaure the undefined variable ‘toxins’. Hubbard said that ‘drugs’ are dissilved in fat and persist. This, at least, can be falsified by research that clearly shows ‘recreational’ drugs are highly reactive substances which typically leave the body in weeks or months. The moment he made a clear, specific, claim it could be falsified.

            I have searched scientific papers online. There is no support for the idea that, in the real world, people would benefit from being ‘flushed’ of ‘toxins’ or that unhealthy levels of ‘toxins’ are stored in fat cells. Moreover, the ways in which people who make this claim propose to do the flusing doesn’t make sense either.

            Finally, the responsibility to provide evidence lies upon the person who makes the claim. Show me sometihing convincing and will examine it. You can’t just say, I’m sure the evidence for my claim is out there – it’s up to you to present it, if you expect to be taken seriously.

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Kind of like a journalist writing for Freedom, don’t ya think?

      • aegerprimo

        I see the similarity.
        I guess any human being can be bought with amounts of woo and money.

    • MadisonAgain

      There’s no “mere” in nurse. A nurse saved my life and my daughter’s life the night she was born. There were drs in the room.

    • Chewkacca

      During the refit asbestos levels were very high. Did Megan die of LUNG cancer, or another kind? WOORFF!

  • aquaclara

    A chirpy “come back soon” as one’s first comment following the death of a friend? This is tough to read.

    • madame duran

      To make sure the deceased friend doesn’t dawdle in the spirit world, she insisted that she “hurry” back. Not a moment to waste on that “rest in peace” nonsense. Hurry up, Megan! Invade that newborn’s body and rush through childhood, adolescence and med school so that you can be my doctor again in this lifetime!
      This is why Scientology is the coolest religion, yo.

      • Beth

        *snickersnort*

    • I thought the whole point was to get to a point where an OT could bypass the implant stations and get back to livin’ the intergalactic high life.

      Isn’t that how Ron was going to carry on his exterior state research into the upper OT levels?

      • MaxSpaceman

        Yes?

        • So why do they think she’s coming back to this hell hole of a prison planet?

          If I died after being promised I was an immortal should and had received an afterlife get out of jail free card … I’d get out and stay out of jail!

  • SciWatcher

    How many people died because of the quackery of Megan Shields? Sorry, I have no sympathy. Karma’s a bitch.

  • MarcabExpat

    COLDEST religion, you mean.

  • Refresh:

    • P.S. My Scots source of inspiration (F5):

    • Jon S

      “coolest religion on earth” ..?

      (a) is “cool” a good category for assessing the value of any religion..?
      (b) scientology’s not even close.

      hari krishna has it’s flaws (my partner’s an hk while i think it’s nonsense – so we have some interesting discussions on it) but at least they had two of the beatles do songs for them, they’re based on a 5,000 year old text, it’s free (!), they do really good food (for free, even to non-believers like me) and have their own silly dance.

      these are, in my view, factors that would make any religion “cool” … if such a thing was relevant. still, their founder was homophobic too … so i guess no religion’s perfect

      • From what I recall, Hare Krishna founder “His Divine Grace” A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada looked like a constipated tortoise.

        • Dibythesea

          I am trying to imagine what a constipated tortoise might look like so I am going to request that you do a shoop please;)

          • No need, Di 😉 (F5):

            • Dibythesea

              😂😂😂

        • Jon S

          don’t say that to my missus … but, yes
          i also think that’s where adam ant got the idea for his stripe from

      • Roger Hornaday

        My Hare Krishna friend has a scientology sister who is a total kool aid drinker. My Hare Krishna friend makes fun of her scientology sister but is exactly like her in her absurd fundamentalist beliefs. In fact I was banned from the Krishna Ashram she lives at because I expressed views contradicting Krishna doctrine while she was visiting me at my house.

        • Jon S

          so very true. hare krishna’s swallow a LOT of nonsense. but their food is nice. and their core text is 5,000 years old. other than that it’s just another form of thought reform. and a religion which claims it is the real one while all the others are nonsense. funnily enough they seem to really have it in for buddhists. i think that’s because they’re quite closely related. like catholics and protestants share a special dislike for each other. i’ve done the chanting / dancing thing with my missus and it’s very effective … but basically for primitive reasons, much as any physically challenging group ritual.

          • Roger Hornaday

            Yes the food is sublime. They subscribe to the vedic scriptures but they interpret those scriptures dualistically and believe God is a deity separate from yourself. That is strictly a belief and they are a belief system. They hate the Buddhist and especially the vedantins (I am one) who don’t engage in beliefs, we deconstruct our direct experience to find everything is one thing. They can’t argue against us so they denounce us hatefully. We on the other hand have no gripe with them.

    • Draco

      Cockwomble: Male-directed insult. Also describes the tendency to rummage in your underwear massaging ones genitals as if looking for litter to pick up (hence womble)

      Haha! The English have the best insults!

        • Draco

          😀 Dare I? Looks suspiciously like a rabbit-hole to me…
          And in I go!

        • Draco

          “@realDonaldTrump you couldn’t be more out of touch with reality if Nessie bit you on the arse you utter fool.”
          So glad I wasn’t drinking anything when I read that!!

      • It’s a little-know fact that those Wombles were a politically radical underground organisation de-constructing and subverting the materialism of corrupt Western culture.

        Consider the opening lines of their first popular propaganda song:

        “Underground, overground wombelling free

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWQMMPFtoG4

      • Ella Raitch

        Haha… I had to ask a teenage son to please take his hand off it while talking to me yesterday. Now I have a new expression

    • Fred G. Haseney

      Refreshing.

    • But is he a shitgibbon or a jizztrumpet? Shitgibbon is my favorite insult thrown at Trump in Scotland.

  • madame duran

    A reminder for OSA on yet another “stealth” opening day in Scientology (not likely they’d ever pay attention but ya never know):

    http://www.tickcounter.com/countup/1464462000000/america-los_angeles/owd/FFFFFF3B5998000000FF0000/No_On-Air_Programming_since_SMP_Grand_Opening

  • John McGhee

    Hmmmm, if I can’t say anything nice I shall say nothing at all; d’oh!!!

    • Ah, go on John; you know you want to 😉

      • John McGhee

        😀 Mark; you’ve got me well sussed

  • downtherabbithole

    It was a year ago today that I lost my mother to cancer. She fought a hard battle. The last few months of her life were the best of times and the worst of times. The joy, laughter, and love we shared is something I will miss terribly.

    It saddens me to think that those in COS may not experience what true human emotion is all about. Good or bad experiences are life lessons to cherish.

    • jazzlover

      Sorry to hear of your loss. For what it’s worth, I lost my mom to same on this date 9 years ago. I’m not superstitious in the least, but maybe there is something to the idea that June 25 might not be such a good date. For what it’s worth #2: Michael Jackson passed on this date in 2009.

      • downtherabbithole

        I am not superstitious either but I really dislike the number 13.

        • Missionary Kid

          What happens is that when one finds an association with a concept (a number in this case) we start to note things that can be associated with it. In your case, negative events. You don’t note negative events with, say 5, do you? Try it, and you won’t like 5 either, after you’ve noted enough bad things.

          • jazzlover

            It’s obvious that the human mind works this way. Has been happening since the beginning of time.

            • Never saw so many red cars since I got a red car.

            • jazzlover

              Yup, but that’s also due to the fact that “red” is the most common color of car.

            • Missionary Kid

              Wrong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_colour_popularity Also, producers of paint for cars say the same.

            • jazzlover

              Always wrong to put complete trust in wikipedia. Of course, primary shades may be most common, but red is most popular with the fuzz.

            • Missionary Kid

              True, but if you read the data put out by auto paint manufacturers, it is the same. If you live in a city where people park in the street, or go to a parking lot and look. You will see that red is not the most common color.

            • Monochrome, running from black to silver.

            • Missionary Kid

              Yup.

            • Not bright, non-metallic tomato. Far outnumbered the vast sea of silver variants. But it is a popular color in its more burgundy tones.

            • jazzlover

              As I just pointed out to MK, it is also a popular color with the fuzz (it stands out). That could also be a reason why you are noticing red cars more.

          • downtherabbithole

            Well that makes perfect sense but will require me to think about it more and it is too early without enough coffee to think about right now. Thoughts to ponder….

            • Missionary Kid

              Artoo45 gave it the right name: confirmation bias.

          • Confirmation bias is a mofo.

        • jazzlover

          Funny, I have absolutely no problem with any number. Prime numbers, though, are especially cool 🙂

        • “Its bad luck to be superstitious”
          (Dan Miller-Blanche)
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_John_Miller
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanche_(band)

          • salin

            I like that quote.

            • I use it all the time.
              Once in a while someone gets it.

      • salin

        A toast and tears for you, too, jazzlover.

        • jazzlover

          Thank you, salin! I appreciate it. As I’ve preached to you, time and distance heals. I hope things are getting better for you 🙂

          • salin

            Thanks, jazz. The peaks/waves are less steep and more brief – though still frequent. But life marches on, and I am able to march along with it – so that’s a good thing. 😀

            • jazzlover

              Hear, hear! You’re gonna be ok — a little worse for wear, maybe, but you have the memories of an important relationship now firmly cemented in your persona. That will make you better moving forward, and put you in a stronger position to teach others in a way that will really mean something.

    • salin

      (((down))) Toasts and tears for your memories. It doesn’t always help in the moment of a wave of grief, but those cherished memories do give comfort as the wave ebbs. I, too, am saddened by those who are stymied from having those experiences with loved ones that can become those cherished memories.

  • RIP Bernie Worrell
    (April 19, 1944 – June 24, 2016)
    http://www.allaccess.com/net-news/archive/story/154981/bernie-worrell-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-parliame

    From Parliament-Funkadelic to Talking Heads.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Worrell

    • Bernie Worrell

    • 2016 continues its cruel decimation of music’s talent pool.:(

      • jazzlover

        So has every other year. The circle of life. The boomer fascination with ‘past’ and lack of recognition that there are as many talented musicians out there now as in the past sincerely befuddles me. That being said, when Macca finally kicks, the internet will explode. Book it.

        • Well, yeah, people die all the time and it’s time for my generations heroes to start kicking off in ever increasing numbers. They just happened to be riding a particular crest of the media wave ushered in by rock’s ascension. As for McCartney, oh yeah, that’ll be a big to-do.

          • jazzlover

            Shhhhhh. You and I are probably close in age, but if anyone asks me, you will always be much older 🙂 I don’t identify with boomers at all, though — not in the least. I find that there’s a certain ‘stuck’ that happens as a result of being part of that generation. That being said, I was listening to music far beyond what most boomers were when I was in my single digits, so I get and identify with the rock’s ascension thing. Fwiw, most of those dying these days were so far beyond their peak years of creativity anyway, so in that regard, their deaths are just deaths to me. But, their music lives on. Since I knew none of them personally, that’s what is most important to me. When Macca dies, most of his solo music will get trumped up to the point of ridiculousness. When I was a teen, I could already tell that “Silly Love Songs” (for instance) was garbage. In a few years, 70 year olds far and wide will be praising it as the modern day Beethoven’s 5th 🙂

            • I was born in ’59, and my next oldest sib was born in ’50. I grew up with her music as my polestar. The Beatles, The Jeffereson Airplane, Cream, Country Joe and The Fish, Joni Mitchell, Nina Simone. I was saturated in folk, opera and jazz from my much older parents (45 and 35 when I was born) and ’50s rock from my eldest sister who was born in ’43. As a child I also loved The Monkees, but hated the Archies and all bubblegum, Tiger Beat pop. I was a music snob by the time I was 6.

            • jazzlover

              LOL. I was born 3 years later, and have a much older sister whose records I used to listen to by sneaking into her room when she was out (don’t tell her!). I was a Beatles fanatic by the time I was 4, and got into mostly British bands from there. My parents were jazz fanatics who used to spend a lot of time on 52nd street when they were young. I just didn’t get into the American rock/folk because I saw Brits as doing something “different” in terms of black hero worship went. Americans from the 70s on have dropped the ball when the Brits passed the music back. When the press started calling Kurt Cobain the next John Lennon, I said “fuck this” and finally gave into the jazz bug I’d resisted for years. When my kids razz me about “your jazz”, I tease them with “I’ve forgotten more about music than you two know”. That always gets a few chuckles 🙂

              You and I are blood brothers 3 years removed, and on opposite coasts 😉 I don’t know about you, but my early obsession with music was a clear sign that I was suffering from OCD before OCD was a thing. In that way, it’s always been a savior and a “safe place” for me.

            • Whenever I’m stuck, closed down and to feel something, I know which music to turn to. Who needs drugs when you’ve got (insert favorite musical piece here).

            • jazzlover

              You may roll your eyes at this, but one of the biggest misconceptions about music is that “happy” music is the only music that can make one happy. I don’t know whether you’ve heard any of the late 72 through mid 74 King Crimson (this was what Bill Bruford left the doldrums of Yes for), but it’s some of the darkest and edgiest music I’ve ever heard in my life, and yet it turned my head completely around to what was possible in music, and still puts the widest smile on my face to this day. Always thrilling, never boring, and it’s what finally pushed me into the jazz world.

            • There are some chords and arrangements that defy lyrical content to set a mood. When we saw Anat Cohen and Fred Hersch last a few weeks ago, she was playing a piece called “the peacock” and while I was marveling at her amazing skill, it was mostly a cerebral experience, but suddenly I was overwhelmed with emotion and I looked over at Butch and and at my mom and all three of us were in tears. It just built and built and then, pow. It wasn’t a florid or super emotional piece at first, either, just brilliantly composed and played to great effect. Soothed beasts indeed.

            • jazzlover

              Anat Cohen is a master. One of her brothers (Avishai) is a master trumpeter (not to be confused with the bassist of the same name). His trio, Triveni, kicks some serious arse:

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4NsaxBet9M

              The drummer, Nasheet Waits, is the son of well-known jazz drummer, Freddie Waits, and is one of the most in demand percussionists on the scene today.

              Tension and release is an effective soother in music too, ya know 😉 For that in the King Crimson I referred to earlier, listen to “Fracture” or “Starless” and make sure to keep the “euphoria tissues” nearby 🙂

            • Missionary Kid

              The earliest tune I can remember on the radio was “Shrimp Boats Is A-Comin'” by Jo Stafford, 1951. I just happened to hear it on the radio, but other than that, I pretty much only heard church music, including gospel, which rocked, and classical.

              I used to watch country music programs on TV (at the neighbors, because we didn’t have a TV) as a kid, and got to see Bob Wills and his Texas Cowboys. Wills hired the best musicians, regardless of the genre they came from, and would let them solo, so I heard some straight jazz in the middle of some of his performances.

              I had to listen to Elvis on the record player at home with the volume turned down very low.

              I just went through the Rock and Roll Museum when I was in Cleveland, and it brought back memories of the predecessors of Rock that I discovered when I was a teenager and out of the house more. In jr. high, doo wop was popular, but rock and roll was really starting. Jerry Lee Lewis, Little Richard, and Fats Domino.

              When I was still in high school, surf music hit, and Motown in college, as well as Dylan and the Beatles in my second year. Louis Louis, by the Kingsmen was popular, and, yes, we did have toga parties, but also choner parties.

              The interesting thing was the great number of us white haired people going through the museum. Rock has passed beyond middle-aged.

              I had fun asking younger people what the 3 pronged plastic adapter was that is in graphics all over the hall of fame was. I had to explain that it was the shape of the adapter used in the middle of 45 rpm records so they could be played on a regular record spindle. I just looked it up, and it’s called a spider.

            • Cool musical recollection! My mom is a huge Jo Stafford fan, and if you’ve never heard Jo and her Husband do “Johnathan and Darlene” you’ve missed the best comedic musical duo of all time. But you probably heard them way before I did. And . . . TOGA!

  • JustSheila

    I remember Megan Shields for her bogus B12 vitamin shots as a cure to sick SO members (including myself). She charged full doctor rates for these and did not conduct standard blood tests for blood sugar, etc. As SSO AOLA in the early 80s, I stopped sending sick staff to her because it was pointless – they needed a real doctor and couldn’t even get antibiotics from her. Megan Shields saw SO members with poor nutrition, including Sally Dean, who then gave birth to premature or disabled babies but like the scn doctors at Shaw Health Center (Megan had her own practice), she did not report these, nor order such staff off post for medical reasons or on special diets. While SSO AOLA, I found Megan Shields to be so caught up in personal beliefs and goofy, unproven nutritional concepts that I found her completely incompetent and useless. Besides this, none of the scn doctors reported child abuse, rapes, sexual abuse of minors, or contagious breakouts at the Child Care Org or Cadet Org or any other Church of Scientology Sea Org facility to the California Health Board as required by their licenses, but assisted to keep all these crimes hidden and uncorrected. They perpetuated the terrible conditions by their silence and violated their doctors’ licenses. Of the three scn doctors I dealt with, Denk, Dr. Michael and Megan Shields, Megan Shields was by far the worst. She was in her own world and I personally thought she was irrational and should not have been practicing. At least Dr. Michael or Denk would conduct standard blood tests, send some to the hospital and prescribe antibiotics. I believe Megan Shields held a great deal of responsibility for the continued poor health and birth of disabled children in the Sea Org and the hiding of crimes there and should have had her license pulled decades ago.

    • jazzlover

      She sold her soul in the worst possible way that a human can. So, no free pass, regardless of how “nice” she may have been.

      • or she had it stolen from her by a criminal organisation.

        • jazzlover

          It’s hard to be a saint in the city, and that’s a really fine line. Medical practitioners within the cult have a higher standard to live up to. Lives are in their hands.

          • I agree they fail harder than the average victim because they are required to do better (in particular those who continue as medical practsioners). But they are under undue influence.

            As Jon Atack points out in “opening minds,” undue influence has been a thing in courts for a long time.

            It’s neither by blaming the victim alone nor by putting all responsibility on the organisation alone that we find a way to move forward. I just want the organisation to have its ability to exert undue influence taken away. The victim / perpetrator breakdown interests me a lot less.

            • jazzlover

              It’s a difficult issue, for sure. Not black and white at all. It presents a moving line of demarcation for me that changes on an almost daily basis depending on how I’m feeling. I wish for the same thing that you do.

            • chukicita

              ^^^THIS. Thanks for articulating this so well, Jens.

            • OOkpik

              Unfortunately, most undue influence is so insidious as to be unrecognizable and thus cannot be regulated. By the time it manifests as actual abuse and finger-pointing begins, assigning responsibility can be tricky business, indeed. Fear is the wind beneath its wings. Thanks to the many who have spoken out and worked to undo its iron grip, fear itself is becoming increasingly toothless and now has its tail between its legs. Willful abuse is being exposed for what it is…and still, Scientology is able to hide under its stinking “religious” tarp.

              Frustrating!

              Scientology works exactly as Hubbard intended.

      • Linda Clement

        I usually have sympathy for anyone caught in Scientology’s web, but to refuse medical care to sick people and pregnant women after seeing the results of that lack time and time again stretches my sympathy awfully thin.

        I just have to ask, how do Scientologists react when an OT VIII dies of a disease?

        • Kid Kat

          I think osa keeps that info from them.

        • chukicita

          It is my understanding that Scientology teaches your meat body isn’t really that important, especially since you’ll just get another one if you “drop” the one you have.

          I wish my phone company would work that way.

          • Patricia Lathrom

            This is true, chukicita. But at the same time, if you are Clear or OT, you are supposed to be healthy. Go figure.

            • chukicita

              So many built-in contradictions!

            • nomorescio

              Everything LRH wrote was a contradiction to one or more things that he wrote. His

            • nomorescio

              LRH was constantly contradicting himself. If you pointed it out in a course, the supervisor would tell you to look up your misunderstood word or tell you that the more recent datum is what you go by. And that totally invalidates his earlier writings as being incorrect which of course is not possible in mad hatter land.

        • Noesis

          “…how do Scientologists react when an OT VIII dies of a disease?…”

          They react with cognitive dissonance, seek out an LRH “stable datum” (lol) to “hold off the confusion” and continue on up the bridge, down the yellow brick road or whatever direction they were already headed.

          It is usually when tragedy or deliberate church authored evil strikes very close to themselves that a Scientologist begins to realize that the organization selling the “solutions” they have adopted…is in fact much worse than the problems (ruin) for which they originally sought help.

          • Patricia Lathrom

            When I was in I’d react the way I was supposed to. Here are the explanations Hubbard gives for illness in Clears and OTS: They were PTS (connected to a Suppressive), something was missed on their case, they weren’t New Age Clear or OT, and the nastiest of all–they pulled it in because of their sins. Yes, Scientology is a very caring, loving, and enlightened path. Hip, Hip, Hooray…

            • arcinva

              I apologize is this is a stupid question; I’m a never-in. In Scientology thinking, can a BT (like one you missed and failed to rid yourself of) be the cause of disease? Like, thinking, that BT was a drug addict and all those toxins it took in are now making me ill.

            • Patricia Lathrom

              Good question. However, BTs are part of the “confidential” technology. Only those above Clear have access to that information. An OT would have to answer that.

          • The Explorer Race

            So true – well said!

        • JustSheila

          ‘After seeing the results’ Exactly. Why wasn’t Sally’s child’s severely premature birth or any other tragic results of the unscientific, unproven scn ‘tek’ a wake-up call for Megan Shields, especially with her medical education?

          Why do those who interface between the Sea Org and scientology world and the real world disguise the truth and support criminality and inhumane abuses when the staff or public who come to them seek and need something concrete which they recognize is beyond scientology?

          It was difficult to find money to send staff to doctors. They only went in emergencies, severe illness or when they were in great pain, not when a placebo auditing session, touch assist or getting a vitamin shot (with no evidence of deficiency!) would cure them, for goodness sake.

          How could a doctor, of all people – one entrusted as an authority in hard physical sciences as the expert on bodily care, desert prior education and training but continue practicing using the same authority, pretend to use that training and practice pseudo-science woohoo instead, despite all the tragedies and failures in front of their eyes?

          I wish I had the answers. Some people fell real hard for scientology and kept running with it like an old racehorse nag with blinders, never noticing they were way behind the race, running until they fell, crippled, broken, dead. Still, other old nags just run over and around them, never consciously registering their deaths, never a thought to their own imminent, pathetic ends and failures. The race becomes all, its purpose long forgotten along with all individual value of life.

          As the bookies and owners cheer their winners and throw their obscenely won fortunes in the air, the dead old nags are quietly removed without sorrow, disappeared from the crowd. Out of sight, out of mind as the next runners start, round and round the circular track.

          • Linda Clement

            And you think you’re not a good writer? Whatever gave you that idea???

            I am never kind on the subject of writing. It’s been the most important thing in my life since I was six years old. Telling someone they can write well when they can’t is not a kindness.

            • JustSheila

              A woman after my own heart! Thanks, Linda. Virtual hugs to you. I gotta say, though, I’m having an awkward time with this Disqus format. You are welcome to PM me on ESMB any time, though I think ESMB now requires 10 or 15 posts minimum before PMing. Lets chat more soon. For now, I’ve got to go. x x x o o o Sheila

            • Linda Clement

              I’m a never-in, and have way too much to read to join another discussion group, but I’ll enjoy seeing you around the Bunker. Keep writing!

      • Patricia Lathrom

        I’m guessing you’ve never been in.

        • jazzlover

          Before you so quickly label me as lacking in understanding and compassion, consider the following. I’m guessing that all never-in’s, whether they’ll admit it or not, have similar troubles. Before I came here, I struggled with such issues, and I had to make sure that I was capable of offering support, encouragement, empathy, compassion despite that. I think I’ve done that. However, that does not mean that I don’t occasionally struggle with victim/victimizer issues as they relate to all cultic situations. I am human, after all, and not struggling would actually show a lack of critical thinking skills on my part and ultimately, a lack of the ability to discern good v. evil – not much different from the ‘believe everything you hear’ result of hypnosis that exists in scientology. While I understand that Megan was a victim of this cult, I can also plainly see that she got ahead by allowing her profession to be manipulated in a way that is inexcusable, and as a result, hurt many of the people who trusted her. Doctors are, and should be held to a higher standard. As I previously mentioned, this is NOT a black and white issue and there is no generic pass for everyone who was victimized in one way or another. There are shades for everything in life, and this is no different. If Megan were to get a pass, why not also give passes to Per Wickstrom (Narconon), or to the healthcare professionals involved in the Lisa McPherson tragedy, as a couple of obvious examples? Also, before you label what I said as “extreme”, do yourself a favor, and read some of the rants regularly made around here by a few people claiming to have the biggest hearts in the world. Whether you believe it or not, some of those are demonstrations of hypocrisy that often leave me flabbergasted.

          • Patricia Lathrom

            I see your point. You raise complicated issues and I can see you’ve given them a lot of thought. The way I see it is that Dr. Shields was doing the best she could, as we all are. She got some things wrong. But apparently she got a lot of things right, and helped a lot of people. It’s hard to stand in judgement of people when we don’t have all the facts. And even then it’s hard. All I can say is RIP, Dr. Shields.

            • jazzlover

              Assessing ‘accountability’ (I hesitate to use the word “blame”) is extraordinarily difficult to do in situations like this where such strong undue influence exists. If we were to think of this in a purely ‘straight-line’, mathematical way, it all goes back to Hubbard. In that way, he would actually be the only one who could be held accountable. I think we all know that that can’t possibly be the case. So then the question becomes: “who else?” Honestly, there’s no guidebook out there to help people makes such decisions. As a result, it all comes down to opinion, and as you know, those can vary widely. I try to keep a level head and inject some reasoning into this. That doesn’t always do the job, though. There are many around here who assign blame in what often appears to be a random way. Many are all in for the cause, yet rant and rave about how “stupid” anyone in a cult is. At that point, the main purpose of this place moves away from providing a safe place of comfort and support. In other words, it all sounds a tad hypocritical and trite. So, maybe I was a bit harsh, and I’m sorry Megan died while in such a situation. But, generally speaking, I believe that clinging to the assumption that every victim of undue influence was a “good” person before being victimized is part of what makes this more difficult – even impossible – because that is pure fantasy driven by our desire to show compassion.

    • flyonthewall

      thnx for that Sheila

    • salin

      *Shuddering* Reading this gave me the spine tingling chills.

      • Dibythesea

        Ditto salin. This makes me sick to my stomach.

    • Justmeteehee

      Appreciate hearing your experience Sheila.

      • Jane Doe 2

        Megan was my doctor and I liked her. We got along well. She did well for me medically, although I never had any big issues and was healthy. I’d like to know more about the son who was shot. Anyone know how he came to be shot? Was it a random thing, or someone who knew him? Was it a drug deal gone bad? Already you can see my imagination runs away from me. Even if she was the shill for Narconon, she thought she was helping and tried to help. RIP, Megan.

        • Jane Doe 2

          How long did she fight the cancer? When was it diagnosed? Anyone know?

    • It sounds like she was in from an early age, and her later medical training was built on top of a foundation of woo.

    • JustSheila

      Thanks, all. I thought Megan Sheilds was nuts… and I was in the Sea Org! How ironic.
      Sally Dean saw her as a doctor through her pregnancy and continued working on post, though she looked terrible. Her child was born 3 months premature but survived through an incubator. All paid by the public health system as she was a ‘volunteer’ as an SO member. Sally loved her child dearly. I do not know if the child was later found to have physical or other problems, but it would have been a strong possibility. Sally left staff to care for her child. I don’t remember if it was voluntary or not, but the Church of Scientology would not accommodate her situation.

      Megan Shields saw the bulk of the pregnant SO staff in the early 80s because she was a female scn doctor and they tended to feel more comfortable with a woman doctor.

      • Patricia Lathrom

        I remember Sally and her struggles with her premature baby. The baby had problems, likely exacerbated by the grueling Sea Org schedule. Monstrous really. I always felt so sorry for Sally. Such a sweet and caring person and so overburdened.

    • Kid Kat

      Hi Sheila 🙂 Thank you. Have you written a book yet?

      • JustSheila

        You’re welcome. No, no book. I wasn’t ever in upper management or at Flag and didn’t have many dealings with celebrities. I’ve just been writing things online as I remember them so the crimes of scientology aren’t forgotten. Sally was a sweet, compassionate woman. I hope with all my heart she and her child found happiness and good health when they left staff.

        • Juicer77

          Thanks, Sheila. It can’t be easy for you to rehash some of these memories. We really need to start a way of bookmarking these great comments by topic so more readers can easily find them.

          • JustSheila

            That’s a good idea, Juicer. I’ve been out since ’86 and left every shred of scn. Fortunately, most of those I knew have been out many years, too, so that’s uplifting. The biggest joys of life only begin after leaving scn for good.

            • Juicer77

              That’s great to hear 🙂

            • chukicita

              I’m making a guess there are more people who’ve been in, done that, and got out (with varying degrees of baggage and loss), than are in today.

        • Linda Clement

          Sheila, you’re a good writer with a story to tell that is every bit as important as the ones from celebrities or higher-ups. Do you really think that the rank-and-file Scientologists are less interesting? It’s the personality and the storyteller’s gift that keeps the reader turning pages, and you have both. Please consider writing a book about your life. You have things to say that have never been said.

          • JustSheila

            Thank you, Linda, you’re very kind. A great writer I’m not, but fortunately, there are some great editors out there.

            Maybe it’s time and the general public is ready. Ten years ago or more, that wasn’t the case, but now, with so many scientology horror stories accepted as true in the media, it’s a different scenario. ‘Going Clear’ exposed some of these personal horror stories. Maybe the general public is ready to know more about what happened every day to us and maybe there are enough people who can relate some part of their lives to it that they want to know. I’ll give it some serious thought.

            Meanwhile, I made a promise to myself that despite the fact that the Church of Scientology worked so hard to make us forget and to deny and sweep these things away, I will remember. I will continue to remind others and do what I can to lift the veil of brainwashing blindness and bring my stories and others’ stories to the light.

            Hugs to you. Thank you for everything you do.

            PS – You might want to read ‘A Nanny Story’ on ESMB.

        • Patricia Lathrom

          Ditto that JustSheila.

        • Jane Doe 2

          Shiela, are you Shiela Hubner, formerly married to Ken Hubner?

          • JustSheila

            No, I’m Xenu’s daughter reincarnated.

    • Jenny Griffith

      Good riddance to the dead who can no longer hurt others.

    • 0tessa

      It looks like Scientology had its own Mengele, sort of.

  • Asillem4

    I’m a never-in so I’m confused. How does an OT8 die of cancer? I thought that level allows a person magical abilities to heal, stop time, etc.
    Rest in what ever peace you can find, Dr.
    Scientology let you down.

    • jazzlover

      Best guess after over a year of observation: scientologists do not see death as a “negative”. Therefore, it is not seen as a manifestation of loss of control over anything. It is merely a “moving on”.

      • Asillem4

        That’s what I wonder. But people of faith usually pray and ask for a miracle healing. Scientologists don’t even have to do that. They can *supposedly* simply demand it. Her husband didn’t have to die before she did. They could have both gone onto the next what ever together.
        *perplexed* Needless to say, I won’t be wasting my $$ trying to climb that bridge to total (non-existent) freedom.

        • Scream Nevermore

          A prayer for healing is just a more politely worded demand. Neither of them is as effective as good chemo.

          • Asillem4

            So true!

        • And actually one does not, despite Scientology’s approach, climb a bridge, one crosses it.
          Ladders are climbed.
          So there’s that, too.

          • Asillem4

            You know, I’ve also wondered why it’s called climbing a bridge. Just another mind fuck by LRH.

        • jazzlover

          Scientology is and always was the religion of paradox. Things that should make sense, don’t, and vice versa. What I have found, more often than not, in traditional religions is that people who start to feel their mortality are more likely to place their destiny in a higher power in a big way. There is a normal fear of death, and with that comes what many see as a last act of desperation. Scientologists may fear death as much as anyone else, but they are not allowed to admit that.

      • ze moo

        I have read somewhere that any group that believes in reincarnation are some what fatalistic on death. I am not sure I can accept that, as Tibetan Buddhists have a huge ceremonial shindig for death.

        As Lron preached that ‘you come back’, too many believe it. The wit and wisdom of Lron is not so witty, nor so wise.

        • jazzlover

          Methinks, L Ron may have been better off following Gurdjieff, like Fripp did 😉

          Irish Roman Catholics both celebrate and fear death, fwiw.

      • Kestrel

        All those who have come before and passed on, yet no evidence or even a suggestion that a single one has “come back.” Perhaps those still in good standing upon their death were “declared” at the implant station before they could requisition a new “meat body.”

        • jazzlover

          Isn’t ignoring evidence which contradicts the “scripture” a requirement within scientology? I’d assume that all in are told that all who have escaped through death did so willingly, and will be back eventually to continue saving mankind. It’s the rotten carrot at the end of the “schtick”.

    • Sid (Phil Jones)

      It seems that there’s some evidence that Scientology doesn’t work. Although for Dr Sheilds time seems to have stopped so maybe there’s hope.

      • Todd Tomorrow

        Sadly they probably have another on secret salary to come up right behind her.

      • “It seems that there’s some evidence that Scientology doesn’t work.”
        When taken with the complete lack of data showing that it does work, I think we are safe in saying that there is some question as to its efficacy.
        The fact that it quite obviously has killed and harmed many suggests that perhaps it bears further inquiry.

        • Sid (Phil Jones)

          I was being facetious. Riffing off the statement of OT’s being able to stop time. Sorry if my meager attempt at humor fell short. It often does.

          • No, I got it.
            And ran with it.

            • Robert Eckert

              While I hate to judge, before all the facts are in, it’s beginning to look as if General Ripper has exceeded his authority.

      • Asillem4

        If only people trapped inside could understand this simple fact. There is hope though! You got out. You get it.

    • WOG with Attitude

      She wasn’t doing it right. LOL

      If someone is doing well, it’s because of Scientology. If they’re dying, dead or sick, they pulled it in, and therefore it’s their fault. Great mind trap, yes?

  • A Republican has grown at least one ball.
    “RNC delegate files lawsuit in order to avoid voting for Trump”
    “”Correll believes that Donald Trump is unfit to serve as President of the United States and that voting for Donald Trump would therefore violate Correll’s conscience,” the complaint reads. “Accordingly, Correll will not vote for Donald Trump on the first ballot, or any other ballot, at the national convention. He will cast his vote on the first ballot, and on any additional ballots, for a candidate whom he believes is fit to serve as President.”
    http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/24/politics/rnc-delegate-lawsuit-donald-trump/

    Get ready folks, the Republican convention is going to be the best TV watching ever.

  • KingofSweden

    Hipsters are going to be scrambling to buy that “coolest religion on earth” t-shirt so they can wear it… ironically.

  • Jimmy3

    Someone once told me if I didn’t have anything nice to say, I shouldn’t say anything at all. That someone was an asshole, and so was Megan Shields.

    • Scott H

      Harsh? A tad. Funny? Hell yes

      • flyonthewall

        no it’s not harsh, if anything it’s too mild. Shields was a quack who shilled for a cult. She damaged people and violated her oath to do no harm. Fuck her

      • Jimmy3

        Usually I avoid speaking ill of the dead, but from the accounts I’ve read, she avoided all professional, moral and ethical obligations that come with being a physician. Her brand of ignorance was dangerous, and she hurt people she was duty-bound to help.

    • Many who have nothing to say, say it anyway.

  • Sunny Sands

    Megan Shields would have had to take OT8 on the Freewinds. And in today’s comments, Aegerprimo remembers her on the Freewinds in the 1980s when it was being retrofitted. Megan Shields died of cancer, and she was on the asbestos laden Freewinds. Possibly a connection there.

  • Michael Leonard Tilse

    I do not know if what I have to say has already been mentioned previously today. I just got online and saw Tony’s story about Meagan Shields.

    Dr. Shields was my doctor, on and off for over 20 years, along with Dr. Denk.

    One of the things that outraged me, while I was reading about Lisa McPherson’s death at the hands of Scientology in 1995, was that Dr. Shields is reported as being at Flag while Lisa was dying.

    In the Clearwater Police reports, one of the Flag staff members interviewed by CPD told CPD that Dr. Megan Shields was at Flag ‘Doing the annual medical physical exams on the Class XII auditors.’

    Now my experience in the Sea Org is that NO ONE ever got annual medical physical exams. You only went to the doctor unless you were really really sick, or injured.

    I don’t think that the Class XII auditors ever got them either.

    It is my personal conjecture that given this Staff Member’s report of Dr. Megan Shields presence at Flag, that it was told as a ‘shore story’ to cover up her real reason for being at Flag.

    Given that other people have reported that Dr. Shields was involved in various “Type III” handlings and “baby watch” episodes, I don’t think it is unreasonable to think that Dr. Shields was called to Flag by David Miscavige to “handle” the Lisa McPherson debacle, but was called in way too late to do anything to prevent her death.

    Anyway, RIP Dr. Megan Shields. Karma is a bitch.

    Edited to clarify a couple of sentences.

  • Observer

    What really intrigues me in the t-shirt pic is this. What’s going on here?

    refresh

    • flyonthewall

      thetan made a boom-boom!

    • That’s very observant of you.
      Oh…..wait…..now I get it…..

    • aegerprimo

      Its a….. vegetable thetan chopper?

    • Kestrel

      I’m not sure, but it looks like someone found Kim O’Brian’s keys. If so, they’re goners.

      • Observer

        Hahaha!

  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

    Every day it seems more pitiful than ever. There is not a hope, not a shred of evidence that L.Ron Hubbard’s claims could be true. There is not a chance that all the evidence is contained in filing cabinets on the fourth floor of the building (as I was once told). The moment will never come when the breakthroughs will be accepted as common practice for mental health treatment. Mankind will never be cleared. Mankind will never see OT phenomenon.

    It is a big scam. For most people that is self-evident.

    All they had was the authority of one renegade doctor who died because of an unhandled engram during miosis (as I recall L.Ron’s explanation for cancer.) She had been unable to save her child despite access to Scientology processes. Doesn’t that make anyone on the inside wonder?

    That leaves Nancy Cartwright and a treasure chest full of beads and a young man with a T-shirt proclaiming Scientology to be cool.

    I read the nasty letter yesterday from John Sugg of Freedom Magazine. He attacked, never defended, and really missed the whole point of this website. He sure doesn’t like Tony. He says I am part of a little Pirhana Pack as are most of you. That is a great alliteration. No wonder he became a journalist.

    I responded yesterday with a meaningful quip.

    Good on Tony for leaving the Sugg letter up. Sadly, Mr. Sugg seems to have no brain. Can’t he look at any one of a thousand situations in Scientology and say, “I won’t work for these people”. I know journalism is a tough way to make a living but to create PR for Scientology is like creating PR for a cigarette company. There just isn’t much there to twist into a positive message and why would someone want to do that anyway?

    Today I will be part of the Pirhana Pack. Any shoops yet?

  • SCIENTOLOGY IS A DEAD END ROAD

    Megan is also the one who gave dangerous psych drugs to those
    who went Type 3 for the church. Never trust a medical doctor with their drugs.

    Over the years I have noticed that cancer takes a disproportionate number of
    Scientologists. There is a mental / spiritual reason for that.

    Cancer can be resolved by one doing heavy cleansing and making the diet
    all alkaline. Few can, however, contemplate the needed depth of cleansing.
    The better natural healers don’t even consider cancer a disease, actually.
    Hint: work to cleanup the lymphatic system first.

    I know two Scientologists who resolved their cancers with the Kelley method.

    • flyonthewall

      this hurts my brain, I must go now

    • Observer

      Why are you here? It sounds like you are more a Scientologist than not.

      • Jimmy3

        His full display name is too long, so it had to be shortened for Disqus.
        It’s actually “SCIENTOLOGY IS A DEAD END ROAD BUT IT CAN HELP YOU WITH THAT”

        • Observer

          He or she frequently pushes alternative “medicine”, conveniently overlooking cases like that of Jeremy Perkins who, while being treated for his psychosis by Scientological methods, brutally murdered his mother. Now that he is in a psych hospital on psych drugs he is back in the real world.

          • Jimmy3

            People who know him call him Anthony.

            • Observer

              WHOOSH

            • Jimmy3

              Anthony Perkins… Norman Bates…
              Maybe I’m not in the best taste today.

            • Observer

              Ah…I’ve only just finished my coffee and it hasn’t kicked in yet.

            • Todd Tomorrow

              I had two against my Dr’s orders just to make sure. I’ve got crimes to do today. Ah, the life of an SP.

      • Enturbulated Masterbator

        Maybe, but see their post just moments ago calling it the “ultimate insanity of $cientology.”

    • bonnydoe

      Congratulations on solving the cancer problem…
      Don’t know what to say, I get sooooo angry about such bullshit

      • And in other news cancer is still a problem.
        But I guess only stupid people die from it.

    • Jimmy3

      Hi, Dr. Nick!

    • Justmeteehee

      Thanks but I’ll stick with conventional methods as well as holistically as a boost. Cancer is a disease in many different forms and every one of them meet the standard definition of disease. Thank you chemo and radiation for my life, my daughters life (3 years of chemo at age 2-5) and my sisters life. We are all cancer free and healthy. Cleanses may be a prophylactic boost but they are not cures… Stepping off my soapbox.

    • MissCandle

      Chemotherapy and radiation under the care of a board certified oncologist cure cancer, when it is possible.

      • My sister had 17 extra years of life when and experimental chemo and radiation protocol whittled an inoperable lung tumor down to nil. Yes, it came back in the end, the oncologists warned that is probably would, but my beautiful sister, lived a full life of grandchildren, travel and snark in those many days of life. Fuck alt med. Magical thinking kills.

        • Justmeteehee

          👏👏👏

      • kemist

        My best friend got 5 more years thanks to palliative chemo.

        People act like it forced on them. It isn’t. In palliative care, you decide if it is worth it with a palliative oncologist.

        Those people are the most compassionate doctors you will meet, but they will not bullshit you.

      • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

        That may be true for some. My hubby lived with it and had All regular and non regular treatments and lived for at least 5 years before it finally got him.

    • How hard can brain surgery be if you have the right tools?

      • (((dagobarbz)))

        Also need a map, or chart…otherwise you wind up shelling the Coronado Islands…

      • FredEX2

        LOL !!!

    • Scream Nevermore

      When my mother had cancer, a real doctor oversaw her treatment. She got real drugs and radiotherapy, none of this quack shit. She survived. The moral of my tale? When you’re sick, see a real doctor.

      • At 92, Momtoo45 is a 41-year breast cancer survivor. Thanks Stanford Hospital and Dr. Cohen!

        • Scream Nevermore

          My mama is 77, but only 5 years clear. But she’s a tough oldish lady!

          • 5 years is the big date. Long life, and lots of love to Screamama.

      • April

        Unfortunately, that didn’t work for my mom. 🙁
        She had pancreatic cancer.

        • Missionary Kid

          They have now gotten some treatments for pancreatic cancer that are showing pretty favorable results, thank goodness. I’m sorry that it is too late for your mom.

          • April

            Me too. 🙁
            She died in 2003 and I still miss her every day.

            • Juicer77

              Hugs, April.

        • Scream Nevermore

          I’m so sorry. I understand that that is one of the worst cancers you can have. 🙁

    • (((dagobarbz)))

      You mean they’re dead? That’s one option…

      • “resolved” has many meanings.

        • (((dagobarbz)))

          This is the only accurate statement in the post, “Over the years I have noticed that cancer takes a disproportionate number of Scientologists.”

          This is the opposite of that, “The better natural healers don’t even consider cancer a disease, actually….”

          Maybe that’s why the top sentence is true… quack, quack!

          • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

            Hear, hear! Especially OT’s. Gotta wonder about that. It got my hubby who was an OT 7 but an ex. Just to be fair, his brother a never in, got cancer too and passed shortly after.

    • “I’M RIGHT AND ALL OF MEDICAL SCIENCE IS WRONG!”
      -Conspiracy Nut on the Internet

      • Todd Tomorrow

        With a degree even worse.”Respectfully, Megan Shields, M.D.”

      • Sarah Palin is “as much a scientist as Bill Nye”.

        • Todd Tomorrow

          Too bad she can’t keep her daughter’s legs closed. She just gave birth to another baby(out of wedlock) with several shmucks claiming to be the father. It wouldn’t matter but Mama claims how well she raised her kid’s. Her son, Trash Palin just beat his girlfriend last month. Of course she blamed it on Obama.

          • And Rump gets evangelical support even though in his books he brags about having affairs with married women.

    • “Never trust a medical doctor with their drugs.”
      The conclusion is inescapable.

    • Rich Dineen

      I agree. Cancer is epidemic, and diet and life style has to play a part. Cam Solari, Yvonne Jentch, Jessie Prince, Karen Black, Kate, and now Megan all touched by cancer way too young. I went through the full chemo for mine and am grateful to be alive, grateful for the chemo meds that put it into remission. But chemo is ugly and leaves it’s mark. Mankind’s greatest friend was full of nonsense about many things and I believe a disproportionate number of cult members and former members get cancer. IMHO we all ought to be “planted based and high fiber.” Kelley, Gonsalez, Gerson, all have something to say.
      Anyway I met Megan and her brother Bill in the mid 70’s– lovely bright people. Saw her a few times at Shaw. I always enjoyed her and valued her advice. (I don’t think any of us got through as “Scientologist” without compromises). She was a friend. RIP

      • pluvo

        Hi and welcome Rich!
        I’m glad you made it through. How long are you out of the CoS? Saw your name on the Scn Service Completion List and that you were doing the OT Debug on the Ship. Is this correct? If yes, we have met; I was working in the Sky Lounge at that time.
        I know of sb who has also done all 3 L’s and then he got cancer; this is just weird. Hope you are not offend when I ask so directly.

        • Rich Dineen

          Yeah. I was there, and I also did 3 L’s — one might suggest that was not too smart. lol
          Thanks, pluvo.

        • Rich Dineen

          I have been out since ’97, proudly declared since ’08.

      • Jake Hamby

        Gonzalez, Gerson, and Kelley are all quacks. Coffee enemas and crank diets for cancer? Ridiculous nonsense that kills people. Look at what happened to Jess Ainscough, the “Wellness Warrior.” Coffee enemas did nothing for the cancer that killed her. http://skepdic.com/gonzalez.html

    • kemist

      I think the main reasons are :

      – They’re getting older (cancer is much more common in older people)

      – A disproportionate number of them smoke

      – They are more stressed (financially, pressure to disconnect)

      – They avoid routine screenings / preventive measures, so that when their cancers are discovered, it’s too late

      This will also increase the risk for death from other illnesses such as depression and heart disease, and that’s what you also see.

      • SCIENTOLOGY IS A DEAD END ROAD

        Stress is so right.

        Have you considered the ultimate Stress of Scientology,
        which is to become “Totally Free” which is unreachable,
        but a constant pressure.
        Therein lies the ultimate insanity of Scientology, which
        is always reaching for the unattainable.
        Think about it.

        Look at LRH’s condition at the end. He was a total nut case.

        • bonnydoe

          So you jump from one lie to another… first LRH and now natural healers…
          Their principles are the same: making money

    • Juicer77

      This is very dangerous medical advice to give someone facing cancer. Not every type of cancer is the same and react very differently to different chemicals. For example, I have loved ones with different types of cancer. Both are long-term survivors and will probably never be cancer-free, but one absolutely cannot have hormones of any type or the cancer feeds off it. The other person needs hormones to keep the cancer in check. The best thing to do is talk to several qualified cancer specialists and do your own research, then make the best decision possible. I would seriously recommend you see what the wider medical community has to say about the Kelley method. Your own life may depend on it someday.

  • Simi Valley

    From my own observations and those of others, I wonder how serious Megan Shields was about upholding the Hippocratic oath once she became ensnared in the cult.

    • Observer

      In her case it was the Hypocritic Oath.

      • FredEX2

        Oop’s, sorry Obs, didn’t see you already said this before I posted the same thing. Well, great minds think alike.

        • Observer

          I do it frequently. lol

    • jazzlover

      In the same way, I wonder how many JW doctors there are, and given THEIR beliefs about transfusions and the like, how in hell can the AMA look itself in the proverbial eye.

    • FredEX2

      I think perhaps she took the ‘Hypocritic Oath’ instead…

  • Lousy Ratatouille

    R,I.P. Dr. Shields.
    A plain and simple Wog doctor might have diagnosed a BAD case of brainwashing”.

  • (((dagobarbz)))

    They DO know that pirates were thieves, robbers and murderers, right?

  • Todd Tomorrow

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHQLQ1Rc_Js
    “You’re to speak well of the dead, she’s dead good” Betty Davis upon hearing the death of Joan Crawford.

  • Pezza

    We the Whitehat pirates reject Nancy and her “crew” of the findraiser pirates. RIP dr shields, even tho she worked for the cult a death is aleays the worst outcome.

    • I’m going to live forever or die trying.

  • Asillem4

    I just finished leading a week long Vacation Bible School at my church. Every Scientology party I see photos and videos of remind me of VBS. It’s as if they are trying to appeal to children. Is it just me? I mean, they look like fun parties but so over the top. Maybe I’m just not in touch with my inner child enough.

  • Jimmy3

    Why doesn’t Nancy Cartwright just pay for the damn org?

    • Scream Nevermore

      You read my mind!

      • Jimmy3

        I mean she probably really loves costume parties, but if she just paid for it, they could still have costume parties. Every week if they wanted to. And they could still raise funds for whatever. Dave wants a new shoe closet? Disney Princesses. There’s a new book demanding a smear campaign? Werewolf Party.

        • Scream Nevermore

          Can you imagine the terror of being on her invites list? How many times could you claim it was lost in the post? I can imagine the postman being kidnapped, and the contents of his bag burnt, just in case. The horror.

          • Todd Tomorrow

            It’s a great exscuse in the states. The Royal Mail it is not. ER2nd Rules.

            • Scream Nevermore

              Australian post is not that great. The number of presents that we have sent to the family there that have never arrived, or arrived with the packaging ripped open and contents gone/damaged is beyond a joke. When I rule the world, all that will change!

            • Todd Tomorrow

              You’ll rule with dignity I’m sure. Oh and Versace.

        • Little David

          The “lady” with the eye patch seated below Nancy is Noelle (spank me daddy!) North. Here’s a better photo of her:

        • Chewkacca

          If you have a party, it implies partygoers. If no one comes, it’s not a party. And for something to be called a party, it needs to be fun. Regging is not fun. Prediction: in a few short years, the only attendees will be ghosts. UUNOOURGH!

    • But then they would have to stop fund-raising.

    • Get out of my brain.

  • TheMirrorThetan

    Isn’t the valley a wealthy area? Why are they still struggling with fundraising?

    • Todd Tomorrow

      It is wealthy.

      • TheMirrorThetan

        I thought so but being on the other side of Teegeeack I wasn’t sure.

        • Todd Tomorrow

          You’re still living 53 miles west of Venus?

          • Yeah, but she drives a Plymouth Satellite. And pretty fast, too.

            • Todd Tomorrow

              “”No one ever dies there, no one has a head”

    • parts of it, yes, very. in other parts, usually after dark but not always, you’re likely to get stabbed stepping over a hobo while leaving 7-11. that’s the area where the current Valley Orgy is located. the new iDeal Orgy is in the NoHo Arts District, which has been gentrified over the past 10yrs.

      any idea how many current, willing to donate, Valley members there are? going by the turnout for the Governess’ Ball, I’ll say 12… and one of them is gonna be in hot water for that pic. who was sitting behind “Ike” and to the right of “Tina” that night?

    • Missionary Kid

      Succulent Duck is right. There’s good, and then there’s bad. The San Fernando Valley has 1.8 million people.

      • TheMirrorThetan

        Well Her Royal Governor of Turd Mountain or whatever she is called should be able to cough up the money, along with some of the other whales.
        Maybe when SMP gets broadcasting they will get the scientology version of the holy spirit and get right on that. 🙂

  • Todd Tomorrow

    Can you still sue a Dr. for malpractice after she’s dead? I guess her estate?

    • Scream Nevermore

      Yes. Lots of examples online!

      • Todd Tomorrow

        I always forget what”a friend” Google is to my world.

  • randomity

    As research director, I wonder if Megan made an effort to prove that “toxic residuals” even exist. It seems like the science would be fairly trivial compared to i.e. showing that thetans exist.

  • FredEX2

    O/T hope y’all will forgive me a little off topic comment,…but it relates to John Sugg’s remarks made on the forum yesterday after the report about his latest story about ‘Merchants of Chaos’ he published in the new edition of the Freedom magazine. I just felt like saying something to Mr. Sugg.

    Dear John,
    I’d like to say something to you regarding your comments on the Bunker website yesterday 6/20/16. If Tony is just such a nobody & a nothing for a journalist,… who only had a little meaningless blog…then why did you bother to write anything on the forum here that was such a blatantly juvenile and caustic attack? If he has nothing important to say,…and no one cares, ~then why are you so clearly caring? Or noticing? Or giving it any credence at all? Why bother to comment?

    Perhaps a better question is: Why did you even take the time to READ it? It’s obvious that you did. If there’s nothing of relevance said here at all,… if everything here is all ‘lies’ as you say….then what difference is it to you…or anyone…what he writes?

    The very fact that you, Mr Sugg…and OSA…clearly read this supposedly unimportant little blog…as do many journalists and media…and authorities…suggest just how important the facts & information Tony Ortega reports…really are.

    For one thing…if revealing the truth here simply keeps your favorite Cult and its adherents at bay from committing more atrocities, more domestic terroristic tactics against other human beings, …if it shines the light on the crimes of Scientology and makes it more difficult for you to harass and then hide behind your excuse that it’s somehow YOUR ‘religious freedom right’ to cause harm by any means possible…without penalty,…and keeps you and your ilk from further destroying the lives of others & taking over the planet in some utterly crazy plan for world domination…

    …then I’d say Tony, and his little blog and the comments and information exchanged on this ‘little’ nothing website…wield a lot more power and influence than you want it to have.

    Carry on John Sugg. Enjoy commenting here on the Bunker. It only further illustrates EXACTLY why Tony has dedicated 20 years of his life and career as a Journalist to shine the light on the dark side of Scientology.

    “All it takes for EVIL to prevail,…is for a good man to do nothing”…Burke

    YOU, Mr Sugg, have cheapened your life and your entire journalistic career by taking a job writing as a gatekeeper, denier, and apologist for CoS. Was it the money? Or the love bombing?…Or do you REALLY accept Scientology as the ‘only salvation of mankind’? Was it worth working for the Devil himself…only to lose the respect of others in your field

    …and more importantly…was it worth losing your soul ?

    • Libertylover

      John is welcome addition to the site, in my opinion. It’s highly entertaining and lights the place up when he pops in. Much more interesting than your average Scientology commenter. I hope he continues to stop by.

      • Justmeteehee

        Let’s hope you meant addition, I couldn’t stomach an entire edition of his nonsense.

        • Libertylover

          Whoops ty, changed it.

        • Libertylover

          Sorry, I know a lot of people hate him, but he’s not too far gone IMO and I feel a little sorry for him. If he blew he might be a decent SP in the future.

          • FredEX2

            Well then, if that ever happens…as in Bunker tradition…he will be welcomed. ( probably have to tolerate some initiation and prove himself tho! LOL ) BTW, I don’t think anyone here ‘hates’ anyone.

    • jazzlover

      He woulda been better off selling his soul for rock and roll. And a whole lot richer too.

      • FredEX2

        But jazzlover, a little Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin and ACDC can be good for the soul…in moderation. Of course, …then there’s jazz…and that IS soul 😊

        • jazzlover

          You bet your life! Wish there were more who saw things like you do 🙂 Although, honestly, if jazz were popular, I might not like it so much.

          • Missionary Kid

            Ahh, a contrarian. Maybe that’s what Sugg is, really.

            • jazzlover

              I think King Crimson is the pinnacle of rock music. I can count on one hand the number of times I have heard their music on the radio. I prefer to see myself as a leader, and not a follower – and definitely not contrary for contrary’s sake. Given how many dummies there are in our great nation (and don’t deny it — the evidence is there), anything that sells in droves automatically equates to “music for the commoners” for me. There is nothing good about that which fails to challenge, in any field. Music that takes chances, and risks failure, is progressive and many levels above that which doesn’t. Most who prefer to see jazz or progressive music in general as “noodling” are missing the point.

            • Missionary Kid

              I have found that jazz often puts me in a state of reverie, but so does some classical music. I happen to like Taylor Swift, as an example, and not because she’s popular, but I couldn’t put up with a steady diet of her music.

              I’m pretty much a music whore. I’ll listen to everything, but I don’t usually spend a whole bunch of time listening to one style.

            • jazzlover

              It’s good to explore, and I’ve done my share of that. At some point, though, if you want to remain interested in music, you have to find what you connect to most, and avoid the rest. Not enough time to spend on stuff that does nothing for you. It’s as simple as that. For what it’s worth, when I eventually got sick of the limits and “dinosaur-ness” of rock, I thought musicians like John Tesh and Kitaro weren’t half bad 😉 Also, there are literally tens of thousands more options within jazz than within rock. There are more sub-genres than you can shake a stick at. There are hundreds of wonderfully creative musicians in jazz today. Definitely not so in rock. That’s exactly why everyone swoons when another oldster hero dies today. They know there aren’t many left or capable enough to keep it moving forward. There’s only so many things one can do with a 12 bar blues.

    • WOG with Attitude

      The million dollar question! Exactly!

      Detractors go on and on about ho bad the bunker is, or Tony is, or any target de jour, but can’t take their eyes off of them.

      I miss all the troll fun! John Sugg is a fav!!!

      • Mary Smith

        John Sugg calls himself a reporter? That is a joke as if he would open his eyes and do any research the answer is pretty clear about the church. Using Miss Tia as someone credible is also a joke. She stole money from many of us on this site, using her dog as an excuse in Gofundme. I believe this is why she left and is critical.

        • WOG with Attitude

          Oh really? Was wondering when the other shoe as going to drop on the hysterical anti-bunker crap.

    • Scream Nevermore

      Hear hear!

    • Still_On_Your_Side

      Who cares what John Suggs thinks? He used to be a journalist, now he isn’t. Discussing his comments is akin to discussing how his food gets digested, both his comments and his digested food leave his body through the same exit.

      • FredEX2

        Well SOYS, that certainly illustrates the point !

    • Chewkacca

      The “dark side” of $cientology? You mean it has a light side too? I must be blind…..WAAUGH!

  • So, I’ve been thinking about CultCrit Backlash Syndrome (CCBS). The more criticism and bile is flung at the cult, even though more and more misbehavior is revealed, will bring the inevitable, contrarian backlash. I wonder if there is a bit of CCBS in Sugg’s embrace of the cult. My source tells me he was fairly avaricious and hypocritical (according to one colleague, his rebel, man-of-the-people persona was more façade than fact). He was also said to be very contrary in many situations, playing devil’s advocate in an almost compulsive fashion. That might explain his sudden turn to the dork side. In any case, our little send off for the not-so-good Doctor will be viewed and spun as a “hate fest,” and “cult-like” and who knows what else.

    I have to say, from my experience, there is very little hate here in the Bunker. Sure, there are always outliers and trolls that will fling bile and hate. That happens in any online community. But what I see here is compassion and anger at injustice. This woman was not a good actor in the grand scheme of things. Her devotion to Hubbard and magical thinking in medicine led to grief and suffering for many. Did everyone suffer at her hands? No. Did she help people? Certainly. But overall, from the sampling here today, her legacy is par for the Scientology course: destructive.

    That Sugg cherry picked quotes from Tia and Alonzo who both have personal disagreements with Tony, as well as twisting the article from BuzzFeed speaks volumes for his lack of journalistic integrity. Is Tony a saint? I doubt it. Nobody is. But I have yet to see any credible evidence of the litany of “crimes” that Sugg posted *cough*BlackPR*cough*. That some people are left unstable mentally in the aftermath of cult indoctrination is an understatement. Many of us here have spoken eloquently of the battles with depression, paranoia and anxiety that followed departure from Scientology. Add to that the possibility of a pre existing mental illness and you have the sort of issues Tony and others have to sort through when vetting stories about the cult. I think that sometimes Tony has chosen to drop or ignore leads because he’s seen some serious red flags in his pre-interview process. That he doesn’t reveal those things, except perhaps, through omission, speaks volumes for his character.

    • Missionary Kid

      “Dork side”. Bwahahahahahaha!

    • pluvo

      Sugg’s comment is quite OSAish. His use of Tia and Alanzo (one of the most constant Sci critics) to dead agent Tony is ridicules. But using Marty Rathbun, the King Pin SP, who has been harassed and under surveillance for years, who has been one of the most fierce opponents and all over the media to expose Miscavige, who has also gotten out and rallied up so many (longtime) Scientologist to speak out, that is really very odd.

    • Jimmy3

      I wondered if it was a different person. It was the same in content, message and motivation. The same old attacks on him (Backpage, some other Sci critics don’t like you, blah blah blah), but the grammar, style and tone are slightly different. And it’s a different account.

      I can’t tell for sure and don’t really care. Just thought I’d point it out.

      • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

        I wondered the same…

    • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

      I thought Sugg’s comment referencing recent drama was a surprising tip of the hand, although we all know by now that the situation is at least in part the result of some opportunism on the part of those holding deep grudges. It’s unfortunate that a couple of people are being taken advantage of as pawns in this whole silly charade. Even more unfortunate for them because these black PR attempts are doomed to failure. Sugg and his puppet masters can try to sow the seeds of discontent but they won’t stick because they don’t understand how a community like this works.

  • downtherabbithole

    I want to apologize for my previous comment “It saddens me to think that those in COS may not experience what true human emotion is all about.” (see thread below)

    Let me restate my thoughts.

    It saddens me that those in COS who experience all the emotions we all share, are not free to openly express all the joys & heart ache we all have.

    I certainly did not mean to imply they do not have “true emotions”. They simply have learned to turn those thoughts off.

    As sure as I am sitting here, I am sure they feel every emotion you and I share. They are simply trapped in a very restrictive mind set.

    Wishing you all a fabulous day!

    • Missionary Kid

      Well put. I took the previous comment the way that you’re expressing it in this post.

  • Todd Tomorrow

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_N6JrIalIvU I wish it was a fire sale.
    Edit. 2013, they have been at this a long time.

    • Qbird

      door knobs

  • nottrue

    So sad her daughter committed suicide. You can’t blame the evil psychs for that

  • Tony Ortega

    More about Megan Shields from Rachel Denk, added to the post.

    • Flying High

      It’s funny as there we had, as Frodis calls him, “John The Slug” leaving comments the other night questioning Tony’s journalism experience where this additional piece and photo by Tony is brilliant and also filled with warmth and compassion towards the family of Megan Shields, which John The Slug would never include in a Freedumb Magazine as that issue is all about hate. In addition, it was 1981 when all GM mid-size formal coupes underwent a body restyle including the Chevrolet Monte Carlo, Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme, Pontiac Grand Prix and Buick Regal depicting that this photo was taken in the early 1980s.

      • Chewkacca

        Don’t forget that slugs leave a trail of slime wherever they go…..WAAROOMPH!

  • 3feetback-of-COS

    OT8 MD and she couldn’t save her own daughter from suicide. Sad.

    • Nor did Scientology.

    • Missionary Kid

      It’s always tough to keep someone from suicide, but a belief system that blames a person for whatever bad happens to them, and denies that feelings contrary to that belief system, would make it even more difficult to keep them from suicide.

      Tory Christman can cite a whole litany of $cientologists who’ve committed suicide.

  • Lousy Ratatouille

    Anyone who’s been on the Freewinds has been exposed to blue asbestos, which can cause a certain type of cancer.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bBLuHV_Kgk

    • bonnydoe

      terrible 🙁

      • bonnydoe

        wikipedia:

        In April 2008, the Freewinds was shut down after cancer-causing blue asbestos was discovered by government health inspectors[19] during maintenance by the Curaçao Drydock Company.[20][21] Blue asbestos is the most dangerous form of asbestos, and the ship is reported to be “extensively contaminated”.[22]
        According to InsuranceNewsNet, “Decontamination, if it is even
        possible, is likely to cost tens of millions of dollars and would result
        in the ship being in dry dock for many months.”[22]

        The discovery confirmed a 2001 allegation by former Scientologist
        Lawrence Woodcraft, who had overseen the original renovation of the Freewinds in 1987.[23][24]

        The Captain also admitted that during previous maintenance performed
        by his personnel, asbestos was released into the ventilation system but
        not reported.[20][21]

        The Church of Scientology denied that there is an asbestos problem,
        commenting in May 2008 that “there is not now and never has been a
        situation of asbestos exposure on the Freewinds.”[25] Karin Pouw, spokesperson for the Church of Scientology, told Radar Magazine that the air quality on the ship was regularly tested and “always meets or exceeds US standards”.[26] The Church contracted Nordica Engineering to perform renovations on the Freewinds
        and denied the presence of blue asbestos during talks. To remove
        material from the ship, Nordica brought in 240 Polish workers, who lived
        on the Freewinds for a month and a half. When workers told
        Nordica there was blue asbestos on the ship, they stopped renovations
        and workers returned to Poland. Witold Maliński stated that Nordica was
        looking to demand compensation on behalf of its workers.[27]
        The Freewinds has been noted in Bonaire for the amount of waste water it dumps into the island’s inland waste pit.

        • MissCandle

          yuk x 47

    • Dice ✓

      My God! You are right… That could be the source for all these Cancer victims around OTeess. The irony!
      Somewhere there must be some authorities who accepted this ship as “healthy” but as we know, it’s not exactly under US jurisdiction, but when they die someone could connect the dot’s and see if they die from blue asbestos… Disclaimer: Pure speculation on my part.
      ETA: I wrote this before seeing the video :-/

  • Simi Valley

    I remember receiving a diagnosis for a particular condition from Megan Shields and being told that there are a lot of different treatment options out there … just find some different ones and try them. That was in 2000 and that was the extent of her involvement in suggesting anything.

    • How unhelpful.
      Like the first time I ate at an Indian restaurant.
      The waiter brought chutney, and I asked, “How do I use it?”
      He said, “Anyway you like.”
      Not helpful.

      • Scream Nevermore

        At least the waiter brought you the chutney. The idea of a ‘doctor’ telling a patient to go off and find different treatment options to try is mind boggling. Not to mention grounds to have her struck off.

    • Draco

      Seriously? Sort of – Patient, heal thyself?

    • Simi Valley

      This condition was serious enough for me to be placed on CA disability for a year which she authorized (CA is one of the few states with a disability program.) My guess is that standard “textbook” medicine did not have a cure for this (see my earlier comment on this) and she could not prescribe anything “alternative” because I believe she was under orders from DM not to.

  • 3feetback-of-COS

    Speaking of Scientology doctors, does anyone remember Victoria Samler? She had an office near Virgil/Hoover streets in the mid-70s – early 80s. I think she also died from cancer. Too young. Nice lady.

    • Rich Dineen

      I remember Doctor Vicki. She was lovely, a real heartbreaker.

    • Simi Valley

      I also heard that rumor yet I don’t think she died in the 80s when that rumor started. Maybe she just wanted to escape the scilon craziness she had gotten caught up in. According to the CA medical board, she is now deceased, but a people search website that I checked showed her as deceased since 2012.

  • Draco

    Her son murdered and her daughter committed suicide? That is just so horrible. 🙁

    • Scream Nevermore

      You know what’s worse? All those ‘co-religionists’ thinking, maybe even telling her, that she ‘pulled it in’. Horrific.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Was her daughter a Scientologist? Another of the many young Scientologists who commit suicide, some because they can see no way to escape?

      • Draco

        I don’t know the circumstances. But despite their assertions of “knowingness and being at cause in my life”, scientologists are subject to the same uncertainties and tragedies as everyone else is. They just can’t see it.

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          And it is such a tragedy to lose a young person to suicide.

  • semi O/T regarding the Truth About Drugs: No Convention has canceled postponed their scheduled “uncrowdfunded” summer tour

    • April

      I’m heartbroken.
      Not.

      • they’re rescheduling… last I heard, they had about $600 in the tank, which might be just enough to get them to your town! however, for the same price as tix (I think most shows were going to be free or $5 to get in), I’ll send you a rad custom music playlist and tell you everything you want to know about drugs… and I personally guarantee it would be more fun or your money back.

    • jazzlover

      I didn’t realize that the setbacks were “unforeseen”. Did they really expect to be gifted $40K to tour a 3 square block area in downtown LA? 😉 Hell, even the drummer coulda survived carrying his kit that far.

      • yes, I honestly think they did expect the $40k to magically happen. I have no idea how/why they thought that much was necessary, or why they were shooting for a legit tour of the entire US after only playing a local bakery, but it does fascinate me.

        • jazzlover

          Well, to be honest, I saw a few musicians/bands rise to national prominence on the wave of nightly tours of the seedy Bowery area in NYC. LOL. So, I guess anything’s possible.

          • recently?

            • jazzlover

              Ha ha. You (without realizing it or not) have just pretty much summed up all that is wrong with the music industry now 🙂 No, this would have been in the mid to late 70s, and there is definitely no Bowery anymore.

            • I know 🙁
              there has always been something wrong with the industry side of music, tho. things aren’t that bad, people are just sick of being screwed (fans & artists), and there are way more easily accessible choices now than ever before. I’m not one of those doomsayers that shakes a fist at “kids these days”… lots of good things are happening if you know where to look…
              but if you listen to fools, the Mob Rules

            • jazzlover

              You’ll laugh at this, and Fripp is notorious for his hatred of the industry and for battling it to the death.

              Some years ago, he opened up a signing to a Q&A. One wide-eyed and bushy-tailed young musician asked him sincerely: “Mr. Fripp, do you have any advice for musicians looking to become a professional musicians today”. Without missing a beat, and with a serious look on his face, Fripp responded: “Just one piece of advice. Don’t”. LOL. I think that says it all 🙂

            • haha, it’s def not for everyone!
              (I see so many similarities between the music biz, in general, and some of our fav topics here, btw. I’m sure you do, too)

            • jazzlover

              Absolutely. Just to make it clear, I’m not one of those fans who feels screwed by the industry. My motto is: if I don’t like it, I don’t buy it. Nobody’s twisting my arm to do anything as far as that goes. I also don’t have any sense of self-entitlement when it comes to the industry or musicians. In general, it’s their world, and if you make the journey interesting, I’m in. That being said, I think that one of the main problems within the industry today is the emphasis on the bottom line over giving musicians room to grow. The free-thinking label owners and producers of yesteryear are gone, and nobody’s been given a chance to replace that. For the most part, it’s all corporate today. If you really wanna make your mark, you either have to play along and sell out, or be willing to do it all yourself. Not everybody wants to start their own label, or sell the shit out of their music on the internet. That’s not for everyone either. Some have succeeded, but it’s definitely not easy to do.

            • For only $10 a month, you can subscribe to SucculentDuckify and hear me bitch about all of this (…But That’s Not All!) while giving myself a massive migraine.

    • Kestrel

      I’m shocked. SHOCKED!

      • Juicer77

        f5 Another project DM doesn’t want to dip into the IAS for…

    • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

      Just a reminder of the crowdfunding page (F5). It raised USD 601.00 of their projected $40K, so around 1,5% of their goal. Lol lol lol.

  • nottrue

  • Since 1977 moving to Hollywood the Doctors at the Shaw Health Center were my only doctors until 2007. I’m sorry she was not able to learn the truth of the indoctrination she lived with and fed others and been better able to understand her daughters suicide. She was OT 8 I believe.

    The doctors at Shaw saw thousands of staff members and their children over the years and if they each did not report and speak among themselves of the abuse they saw … shame on them. It could have truly saved lives if they had.

    Doctors are in a unique position to have been able to help because scientology staff, public, auditors, case supervisors, nannies and the seniors of the staff do listen to doctors. In fact every visit was detailed for the person to turn in to their Medical Officer or Case Supervisor at least in the case of staff and our children.

    Megan Shields diagnosed my daughter #2 with ‘Failure to Thrive’ when she was only 1 year old. She had only gained 8oz in the prior 6 months. To handle ear infections, I seem to recall counting 32 prescriptions to antibiotics prescribed by Doc. Denk (in same clinic) in less then her 2 years of age. She was breast fed but put on LRHs Barley Formula at one month. As it turned out she was allergic to milk which is in the formula and of course the formula could not be altered. Another Doctor who was a parishioner without seeing her advised me to put denatured garlic in her ears and over night the infections ceased. Apparently however I recently was told that this was then used as ‘successful’ but caused problems for other children. It was later found that she was allergic by a wonderful nanny she had who was later ‘off loaded’ because she altered the barley formula (I’m sure there is more to this).
    My dear friend Pamela Kilmartin told me she had been told by Doctor Denk to drink vodka. I’m not sure what problem it was for. She passed in her 60s with liver problems. One of her daughters is Melinda Brownstone – the house where Kristy had her ‘get Leah’ tea party. The entire family is sunk deep in Hubbard’s fantasy.
    Here is a note a Doctor at Shaw gave me Jun 1984. I was Sea Org staff at AOLA working the 24/7 since November 1977. I’d spent 10 months on the RPF 82/83 most of it while pregnant. My daughter #2 (above) was born Oct 09, 1983 and I was up most nights rocking and singing to her while she had ear infections constantly.
    It’s horrible that these abuses were not reported or if they were – nobody cared.

    • jazzlover

      Jeez. So sorry you and others had to endure this quackery. Glad you’re out. The good news is that you lived in spite of it and lived to tell about it. Somebody needs to report this kind of nonsense to the AMA before other lives are ruined or prematurely ended.

    • Simi Valley

      Note that Dr. Michel said “Seen today with … chronic sleep deprivation …”

      • Juicer77

        ^^^

  • Jgg2012

    I bet Cartwright and her friends are backing Donald trump. She pours millions into an org that is never completed, he pours millions into casinos that lose money.

    • Lousy Ratatouille
    • edge

      I can’t believe it hasn’t sunk into her. The Simpsons, with its very highly paid cast of voice actors and use of dozens of writers and artists and animators, is super expensive to produce. How many seasons have been produced since the Valley project started? If she asked herself that she would see Valley for the money pit it is.

    • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

      Actually, I wouldn’t be surprised. OG OTs like Penny Atwell Jones (OT8 and BFFs with Gay Ribisi and Kate Ceberano) are ardent Trump supporters. (F5)

  • chukicita

    It’s mostly sunny at the moment, but right now over downtown Clearwater there’s some light rain.

    • Juicer77

      That’s a vaguely Bumbo-shaped cloud. 😉

    • April

      Hey! Send that cloud to my house. We have a heat index of 108 degrees today.

  • Reference to a George Duggan and a son of his.

    Jason Barclay Tells It Like It Is March 21, 2013, Mike Rinder, Something Can Be Done About It

    One member of our cast was Weston Dugganstar, son of George Duggan who was a multimillionaire scientologist. Weston had full access to the bridge but still wouldn’t want to set foot in the church. Instead Weston was living for no rent in one of our rooms and racked up a $500 bill with me for rarely paying for my car mileage or house utilities.

    Dugganstar??

    • Jimmy3

      Dugganstaaaawwrrrr
      Wunnnerrrrrrr

      • chukicita

        Homedugganstaaaarr…

        • flyonthewall

          related to Hacksaw Jim Duggan? f5

          • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

            Hooooooo!!!!

  • Libertylover

    Mark Bunker is live on periscope in Clearwater.

  • Roger Hornaday

    After a murdered son, a daughter dead by suicide, it is automatically assumed by any scientologist that Dr. Shields was PTS. PTS people are to be avoided.

  • Mary Smith

    I get different quotes twice a day now–

    I’m very excited and want to give a big ack to COB for putting the path there, following the trail and getting it done like never before. I’m so proud of being a Scientologist and a part of this movement. P.O.

    • Qbird

      What’s your favorite part of “The Path”?

      eta: I tease you Mary. Was hoping you’d say “The Exit” ~ and, I like what you said to Sugg.

      • Mary Smith

        Sorry I don’t watch much tv so I didn’t get your comment.

        • Qbird

          That’s okay Mary. Hello again. I don’t watch TV much either, but I cat-sit for a couple that has (pays for) Hulu & I caught the first 8 episodes of “The Path” last month. So when I read this part of the quote, “want to give a big ack to COB for putting the path there” it reminded me of this show. And I made a weird comment.

          You may have noticed, I’m not one of the clever folks who post here; actually I’m kind of a dork. Hope you don’t mind. At any rate, I really did like your comment to John Sugg regarding CW vs. Dunedin. This is the truth of it. And I just wanted to say hello to you… again. 🙂

          This little Egret here is very bold & friendly. And when we (Mr.Q & I) are fishing on Kissimmee during the winter months, she comes & visits us most every day. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b333891822c9218b4691299f510b27cc4c7c6d55117302869ab66fe500a93352.png

          Cheers dear. See ya ’round. Q

          • Mary Smith

            thanks for explaining. I have it on my to do list to watch the Path sometime as it sounds interesting. I have birds like this at my house too. Have fun fishing. Yes it is a shame about CW as it could be a very nice city but at least I have CW Beach to go to.

            • Qbird

              Oh yes. Everyone goes to The Beach! So pretty, wide-open warm space, fun bars & terrific foods to be found & experienced… and really, it is the last great beach on that side of Fla. as you drive north from there. I found that out personally just this last fall, when some friends & I road-tripped along the entire Gulf Coast from CW beach to NOLA. The folks from Lake Wales bypass downtown completely & easily (and also btw, don’t think on Scn at all, which i find odd).

              Do see “The Path” if/when you are able. It is the 1st TV show that I’ve seen that tells a story from inside a cult-like “religion” looking out. Very interesting indeed.

  • HappyGirl

    I saw Megan Shields only two or three times. The last time I saw her she was so psychologically abusive I never went back to her. She gave no recommendations for exercise, supplements, therapy or surgery of any kind, just “use it or lose it.” I was young, and didn’t know that was a cliche. I believed her and thought I was really “going to lose it.” I was terrified and staring at her in horror and she said no more. That was her official diagnosis.

    • Juicer77

      I’m very sorry, HG. I hope that whatever the problem was, you got much better care after you left.

  • BosonStark

    Dr. Shields will hurry back about like LRH hurried back.

  • Juicer77
  • hansje brinker

    A sad joke that an OT8 dies of cancer.
    Two weeks ago an Dutch OT8 appears in a newspaper with a story that he thinks he is hit hard by a policeman while driving on an electric-bycicle. He awoke in a hospital (intensive care) with a skull fracture and several broken ribs and can’t remember a thing about the incident. He is now looking for witnesses.
    Again a story of an OT8 who has the “power” to pay a half million to become master over, over……over what?

    • Jimmy3

      Incredibly, the bike was found parked in the exact spot he had postulated.

  • Juicer77

    Mark sending the PI to get a Scientology water for him. “Tell them it’s for me.” LOLOL

    • CK

      Glad for Periscope, eh?

      • Juicer77

        Tell me if these comments get annoying. I think he’s finishing up anyway.

        • CK

          No, not annoying at all; I’ve been following Bunker on and off for ten years. Love to see his take on yet more Scilon Clearwater puffery.

          • How do you guys watch this?
            Edit: Found it. Thx 🙂

            • Juicer77

              Persicope is a video broadcasting app linked to Twitter. You can use it on any electronic device (computer, Kindle, smartphone). If you have a Twitter account, you can just log in and watch. You can also sign in with a phone number but I DO NOT recommend doing that.

    • Beth

      WTF with this pizza guy? Miscavige told him not to give Mark Bunker any pizza? that’s just mean.

  • Juicer77

    Extreme Wise Beard close up as Mark explains how he planned to use an extendable boom mic over the shrub tech. 🙂

  • chukicita

    So what happened? The periscope is kind of choppy for me. I gather someone was sent out to ‘handle’ Mark. But it looks like the ribbons are still on the building and there is music coming from the tent.

    • Juicer77

      Looks like he’s winding down. I am wondering if that stupid injunction is keeping him far enough away. I hear a chopper though. 🙂

    • Juicer77

      Couldn’t tell if the guy was a handler or not. He had some good general “I don’t care what they do” patter but then asked a few questions. Interesting…

    • pluvo

      oh, sheet tech again

      • chukicita

        The stuff ya gotta do to save the planet.

    • Dice ✓

      He is not streaming right now. But what ever he had streamed he will show on this site https://www.periscope.tv/w/1PlKQjZvWznGE

  • Juicer77

    The volume on the music in Clearwater is LOUD. It’s loud even from way across and down the street.

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Periscope locked up for me and now won’t come back. Is he still broadcasting?

      • Beth

        yes

      • Juicer77

        Yes.

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          OK, it works again for me.

          • Juicer77

            My whole device locked up. OSA!! LOL

  • chukicita

    I’m watching active calls for service for Clearwater PD: Suspicious Person around the Super Power! (Edit: Actually a couple blocks away. This call vanished a few minutes later and is not represented on the live list now).

    • Juicer77

      Good idea…

  • BosonStark
    • Kestrel

      That’s great!

    • MarcabExpat

      Top notch fix there 🙂

  • Juicer77

    Mark just shouted out to OSA, who’s watching. LOL He’s walking by the sheet tech and wooden board tech to show it to us.