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As Louis Theroux’s Scientology movie hits theaters, its main subject accuses it of deception

Marty_Rathbun_Louis_Theroux

 
Maybe it’s all our fault. In the spring of 2012, Academy Award-winning producer Simon Chinn (Man on Wire, Searching for Sugar Man) took us to lunch at the Dos Caminos restaurant on Houston Street in Manhattan to talk about Scientology.

He told us he was planning to make a feature film on the church and had decided to cast BBC presenter Louis Theroux in it. But he was still trying to figure out what aspect of Scientology to cover.

Oh, that’s easy, we told him. If you wanted to understand what was happening with Scientology in 2012, you needed to consider former high-ranking Scientology executive Marty Rathbun, we said, and we told him all about the Squirrel Busters, and Rathbun’s blog.

Chinn probably would have got there on his own without our advice, but he and Theroux did make Rathbun a big part of their film, My Scientology Movie. In fact, Rathbun is the film’s most important figure after Theroux himself. But now, four years after we had that meeting and just two days before Chinn and Theroux’s movie opens in theaters in Australia on Thursday, Rathbun has denounced My Scientology Movie and its filmmakers.

Less than a week after he tore into Ron Miscavige’s memoir Ruthless for its harsh portrayal of Ron’s son, Scientology leader David Miscavige, Rathbun has now published a lengthy and detailed takedown of how My Scientology Movie was made, accusing its makers of being dishonest. (Theroux’s movie opens on October 10 in the UK, and in the US in January.)

Rathbun writes that in 2012 he had extracted a promise from Chinn that the film would take a sober look at Scientology’s “origins, its historical and philosophical context,” but Theroux instead “used” Rathbun as bait to “incite the wrath of the Church of Scientology.”

In press reports (and in the film itself), Theroux, who is known for his interviewing ability, has admitted that he had to take another direction when he couldn’t get access to Scientologists or church leaders. So he came up with very creative ways to examine Scientology’s controversies (you can see our original review of the film here). And along the way, he found himself being stalked numerous times by Scientologists, who were filming Theroux as he was trying to film them. (You get some sense of the nuttiness of it in the movie’s trailer.)

Rathbun is now saying that Chinn had made promises to him that the movie wouldn’t include such scenes. He says that Theroux and director John Dower assured him that “baiting” Scientologists for a reaction would not be a part of the finished film. When he began to suspect that they would go back on that promise, Rathbun says, he threatened to stop working with them.

Chinn then flew to Los Angeles where scenes were being filmed to reassure Rathbun that what he had originally promised about the movie would be “fully honored.”

Rathbun says he warned all three of them — Chinn, Dower, and Theroux — that their “antics” reminded him of a previous BBC production that he’d worked on, a 2010 BBC Panorama episode by journalist John Sweeney, which Rathbun characterized as “consisting almost entirely of [Sweeney] attempting to poke sticks in Scientologists’ eyes to get them to react on camera.”

Rathbun says the three were offended that he would compare them to Sweeney, who they called a “publicity hound,” and they promised him that the finished movie wouldn’t be about baiting Scientology the way Sweeney had. (We traded messages last night with Sweeney, who said he didn’t want to comment.)

Last year, just before Theroux’s movie made its worldwide premiere at the London Film Festival, Rathbun was shown a copy of it via a private Internet connection.

We attended that London premiere, and Dower told us that Rathbun had said he liked the movie (and Dower sounded relieved). But now Rathbun says that seeing the film last year confirmed for him that Simon Chinn was a “tabloid hack,” Theroux an “ass clown,” and Dower a “rimless zero.”

Rathbun complained that in their publicity for the movie, the three filmmakers were being dishonest in interviews. They tried to differentiate their movie from Alex Gibney’s hugely successful 2015 HBO documentary, Going Clear, by intimating that Gibney and Lawrence Wright had taken a predictably critical stance, and that My Scientology Movie had worked harder to understand the Scientology experience and present it in a more positive light.

Rathbun disagrees, saying that the filmmakers set out to do a critical film and never tried to understand Scientology properly. And even though they had worked hard to provoke reactions from the church, the filmmakers pretended that they had been “stalked and harassed” for no reason at all.

And one of the most potentially damaging allegations by Rathbun: When Theroux and Dower were unable to provoke the church into stalking them, they simply pretended that it was happening.

Meanwhile, Rathbun claims, the filmmakers were describing Rathbun’s involvement in the project in letters to Scientology attorneys, hoping that it would provoke the church into acting. The result, he says, was the 2014 encounter at the Los Angeles International Airport when three high-level Sea Organization executives surrounded Rathbun and taunted him, while Rathbun captured it on tape.

Rathbun says that Theroux and Dower were thrilled, and that Chinn admitted that footage of the encounter shot by Rathbun would save what might have been a “potentially failed project.”

Rathbun criticizes news organizations that have portrayed Theroux as brave for taking on Scientology, even though Theroux’s attempts to bait the church were largely ignored by Scientology.

And, like in his earlier piece about Ron Miscavige’s memoir Ruthless, Rathbun saves for last what he considers his most devastating allegation, which should call the entire project into question. In the case of Ruthless, Rathbun tried to undercut the book’s claim that private investigators had been told by David Miscavige to allow his father to die of a heart attack: “If he dies, he dies,” David Miscavige reportedly told them, and Ron originally made that the title of his book. Adopting the language of the Church of Scientology itself, Rathbun called the story by the private investigators “provable bullshit.”

In the case of Theroux’s film, Rathbun says that the movie’s key scene recreating what it was like to be in Scientology’s notorious “Hole” was unfair to David Miscavige.

On a sound stage in Los Angeles, the filmmakers recreated the conditions of The Hole, where some church executives were held as prisoners for years. Theroux says in the movie that Rathbun had written a script in order to recreate what it was like to be subjected to the wrath of David Miscavige, and during the scene’s filming Rathbun looks on approvingly as actor Andrew Perez goes nuts, verbally abusing the other actors, who are portraying prisoners.

But now, Rathbun says that the script he wrote for that scene wasn’t “lurid and shocking” enough for Theroux, and so the scene was largely ad-libbed by Perez.

As for his looking on approvingly, Rathbun now says that he’s come to realize that what had been recreated wasn’t a meltdown by Miscavige, but a portrayal of what Rathbun himself had been like in the Sea Org.

We found that assertion by Rathbun to be highly significant. As in his attack on Ruthless, Rathbun has managed to find a way to adopt Scientology’s own language. Rathbun denounces My Scientology Movie in exactly the way the Church of Scientology has attacked questions about David Miscavige’s alleged abuse of his employees.

When journalists ask the church about Miscavige physically attacking his lieutenants and they cite testimony by Marty Rathbun, church spokespeople have claimed that it was Rathbun, not Miscavige, who was doing the beat-downs and dishing out abuse.

Now, remarkably, Rathbun is echoing the Church of Scientology in what feels like a last-minute attempt to sabotage Louis Theroux’s film.

One of the first things we did last night after reading Rathbun’s blog post was put a call in to Tom DeVocht in Seattle. DeVocht was also a longtime Scientology executive and spent a lot of his time working directly with David Miscavige. DeVocht has a short appearance in My Scientology Movie, and he also spent time as a prisoner in the Hole. He has seen the movie, and we asked him, was the portrayal of Miscavige abusing people in the Hole, as portrayed by Andrew Perez and overseen by Marty Rathbun, an accurate one?

Yes, he told us, but then he said the scene only began to portray Miscavige’s depravity. “There were times it got so much more intense, and so much uglier, you wouldn’t believe it,” DeVocht says. And he can’t understand why Rathbun would try and convince people that Miscavige was any less violent than the film portrays.

 
Marty_Rathbun_Andrew_Perez

[Marty Rathbun and Andrew Perez, filming a recreation of The Hole]

 
“It’s ridiculous that he’s saying that. How many of us were there and can tell you that’s the way it actually was?” DeVocht says. “Marty’s lost it. All of those statements he made are bullshit.”

Jefferson Hawkins, who also appears in the film and was someone who experienced Miscavige’s violent behavior first hand, agrees with DeVocht’s assessment of the scene. “There is no way that the ‘Hole’ scene is anything but Marty’s creation,” Hawkins says. “I was not there for the filming, but watching the scene, it is eerily accurate. Perez nails David Miscavige, and the scene is a convincing re-creation of what Miscavige and the Int Base are like. That could not have come from Theroux or Chinn – Marty was the only insider who was there. You can clearly see in the film that it is Marty creating that scene, and taking satisfaction in its accuracy.”

Steve Mango tells us that what especially surprises him is Rathbun’s assertion that the scene portraying the Hole was not done just as he wanted it.

Mango is a former Scientologist who appears in the film, talking about how much money the church drained from him. But he was also asked to portray one of the Sea Org workers in the Hole scene. And he was present at the Los Angeles studio where several other scenes were shot.

He says that not only did the Hole scene reflect in general what Rathbun had scripted for it, but that Marty was largely in control as the scene was being filmed.

“Marty would give line readings and tell the actors to say or do something in the scene. Marty was 100 percent in control, even telling them when they got the right take and when to move on,” he says. “There is no denying that Marty was involved in those scenes in their entirety.”

Mango does confirm that there was tension on the set as Rathbun blew up at the filmmakers. “I broke up a big argument between Louis, Simon, and Marty, where Marty almost stormed off and quit filming for good and Louis was just trying to understand it all,” he says. But the one time when Marty seemed most satisfied was the filming of the Hole scene and Andrew Perez’s portrayal of Miscavige.

“Marty was smiling with pride as Andrew portrayed Miscavige,” he says.

We reached Theroux, who said he didn’t want to comment. Dower said the same on behalf of himself and Simon Chinn. We sent a question to Marty Rathbun about his recent posts, and he accused us of “cognitive dissonance and paranoia.” He didn’t respond when we told him that Tom DeVocht found the film’s portrayal of Miscavige to be a fair one.

At his blog, Rathbun explained that his recent posts have been intended as “housecleaning” as he intends to “leave the place,” apparently a reference to ending his writing about Scientology, or something.

Unless he plans to take down his archives (and even then, they’ll be backed up somewhere), Rathbun may have a hard time explaining how his recent writings compare to what he’s said in the past.

If today John Sweeney is a “publicity hound” whose 2010 BBC film, “The Secrets of Scientology,” was dishonest baiting of the church, here’s what Rathbun said about the film when it was about to come out.

I am doing no interviews on the subject until the BBC Panorama investigation has aired. It is BBC’s exclusive as far as I am concerned. The reason is that Panorama’s John Sweeney actually connected the dots on all this. Sweeney can investigate, folks. Why do you think DM worked so hard utilizing reverse Scientology tactics to make him snap? Do you realize the crux of Sweeney’s 2007 investigation was evidence that Miscavige beat people on a regular basis? The effort and money that Miscavige devotes to discrediting Sweeney is directly proportional to the investigative skills and persistence of Sweeney. Stayed tuned.

Stay tuned we have, since 2009 when Rathbun first started blogging. And the current picture is getting awfully blurry.

 
UPDATE: Steven Mango has posted a video addressing Marty Rathbun’s allegations about Theroux’s movie.

 

 
——————–

3D-UnbreakablePosted by Tony Ortega on September 6, 2016 at 07:00

E-mail tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Our book, The Unbreakable Miss Lovely: How the Church of Scientology tried to destroy Paulette Cooper, is on sale at Amazon in paperback and Kindle editions. We’ve posted photographs of Paulette and scenes from her life at a separate location. Reader Sookie put together a complete index. More information about the book, and our 2015 book tour, can also be found at the book’s dedicated page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of L.A. attorney and former church member Vance Woodward
UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists
GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice
SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

Other links: Shelly Miscavige, ten years gone | The Lisa McPherson story told in real time | The Cathriona White stories | The Leah Remini ‘Knowledge Reports’ | Hear audio of a Scientology excommunication | Scientology’s little day care of horrors | Whatever happened to Steve Fishman? | Felony charges for Scientology’s drug rehab scam | Why Scientology digs bomb-proof vaults in the desert | PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer | The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill | Scientology boasts about assistance from Google | The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

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  • Hamtaro

    When I was 6 years old, my Mom took me to see the stage play of Peter Pan. It was magical in a way nothing in my life had been up to that point. Kids who could fly, pirates, a fairy, a crocodile with a clock inside it so you could hear him coming. By the time it got to the part where Tinkerbell was very sick and all the kids needed to clap really loudly to bring her back to health, I was up on my feet smacking my little hands together as loudly as possible. As an adult, I learned about something known as the “Tinkerbell effect” which described a phenomena where things only exist because people believe in them.

    I used to have some hope for Marty, partly because of the way Mike Rinder had worked so steadfastly to redeem himself, partly because Marty had the good sense to marry Mosey, and a good redemption story is one of the best kinds of Americana.

    But those days are long gone. Marty is obviously in very bad shape and I can no longer imagine a scenario where he is a powerful and effective force for good. Or even one where he subjugates his ego and simply reveals the truth about so many of the evil things he did as the #2 man in Scientology.

    His recent posts show clearly that the only thing that bothers Marty is that no one is clapping anymore. And very soon his identity as “Marty Rathbun, Scientology Warrior” will simply cease to exist.

    • FredEX2

      So well written…as the curtain closes on act III in ‘Marty Rathbun, the Play’. Sad. Just really sad.

      • Kestrel

        Just in time for the premier of ‘Rathbun, the Rue Reaper, a Monologue’

    • MaxSpaceman

      He morphed into “Mark C. Rathbun, Scientology Douche.”

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    CNN has been talking about Pam Bondi’s donation from Trump off and on all day. This story is now in the mix– wonder if/when somebody will bring up the Scientology connection.

    • FredEX2

      I think surely many journalists and others who have researched the subject of Ms. Pam Bondi and Mr. Trump, have certainly seen the Scientology support and link to her by now as well. Possibly more mention to be made of that at some point. ?

    • Kestrel

      Their volunteer fact-checker has been too busy to review and correct the copy. It should be available any time now.

  • Observer

    Just finished the video. Thank you, Steven!

  • LongtimeLurker

    Guys, I’m just doing this week’s accounts, and I’ve misplaced some receipts.

    Anyone remember if we actually paid Steve Mango the usual 25k to read all those lies for us?

    Or did we just send Squad Ortega around to threaten him? You know, like we do when some of the weaker Bunkerites stop following the group-think party line.

    Thanks in advance.

    Yours in anti-cult cultism,

    LongtimeLurker

    “Hey, just because we’re against an unhealthy, hate-filled cult doesn’t mean we can’t be an unhealthy hate-filled cult.”

    • gtsix

      It was 10k up front, then 5k for sending it to Scoopy, and an additional 10 if he would do an impression of Mark C. Rathbun. So, yeah 25 total.

      Squad Ortega… if LL doesn’t ixnay on the iscussionday on your existence… you know what to do.

      Cult Agent six out.

      • LongtimeLurker

        Thanks six,

        Good work on making the Mark impression thing happen.

        Yours in fawning anti-cult-cultism,

        LtL

        • gtsix

          Always happy to help our overworked Finance Dept. Xemu knows how you all keep those payments on our 47 bIlliion dollar.budget..

          Which reminds me, don’t forget to route Scoopy’s payment through the usual big pharma friends. Last time some douche Duggan tred to interfere… but the squad took care of that.

    • EnthralledObserver

      That Squad are brutal, I’m telling you.. I’m almost safely back ‘group-thinking’… almost. They might have to beat up on me some more… but to be fair, I’m sort of baiting them quite regularly.

      • LongtimeLurker

        They’re a bit back-logged, you counter-Ortega-intentioned bastard.

        I’d appreciate it if (as a show of good faith, contrition, and your commitment to Tonyfication) you could punch yourself in the face until they show up.

        I’ll try to get them there by lunchtime.

        LtL

        Hail Tony!

        • EnthralledObserver

          As it’s ‘group-think’ that I’m being pressured to return to, I was hoping you might get the favoured ‘cool kids’ around here… you know, fly, Kimmy, Robert, Jimmy, etc to demonstrate that self punching for me to copy after I’ve seen it… it’s an art, I hear. And I’ve only ‘almost’ be re-indoctrinated… so I might find that amusing.
          Yours in Cultega,
          EO

          • LongtimeLurker

            This request for special treatment is EXACTLY not the group think I’m looking for here.

            EXACTLY NOT IT!!!

            But you asked nicely. I’ll see what I can do.

            LtL

            Suck it, people who aren’t us!

            • EnthralledObserver

              Appreciated. 🙂

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Let me look in my files – my last check from Big Pharma included itemization of the payment to Steve Mango.

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        GMTA, my friend…

      • LongtimeLurker

        Thanks FMFH.

        LtL

        The Bunker is the only true path.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Ahem.

      ALL checks come from Big Pharma, and we don’t talk about them

      That is all.

  • Sibs

    You did good speaking up, Steven. Especially with your first-hand perspective of the events that happened and the (electronic) paper trail you still have.

    At this point, I think Marty is talking himself into irrelevancy. Even if he’s not saying these things to try to get back into the cult’s good graces, he’s still making it impossible for him to ever be trusted or believed again on the subject of $cientology. Just screaming into an echo chamber.

    • Baby

      Hi Sibs.. I love seeing Bunkeroos popping in.. xo love baby..

      Agree!

  • Vaquera

    O/T: ESPN Fantasy Football
    As J3’s personal assistant (because that’s what one becomes after he gallantly rescues you) here are the details…
    League: Bunkerballs
    Password: bunkerzzz
    Draft is tomorrow at 9:00 pm EST

    • flyonthewall

      i will be there to refill drinks and empty ashtrays but I’m not wearing an apron…ok I’ll wear the apron

      • gtsix

        Just yell at them to empty themselves. Lazy ashtrays.

        • Kestrel

          “I had just gotten off the level and was now a Full OT VII. My husband’s fantasy football league had scheduled its draft for that night and for the first time ever it didn’t bother me. I knew that I would be able to empty those ashtrays without even getting off my couch.”

        • flyonthewall

          a good servant is neither seen nor heard. So Tone 40 yelling at ashtrays is def a no-no.

          • gtsix

            Oh sorry, I thought you were OT-CDLMDCLM. We can yell with only our minds. No more verbaltech!

            You’ll get there, just keep studying.

      • Vaquera

        Wear your bunny ears.

        • flyonthewall

          i don’t want to look ridiculous!

          • Vaquera

            FINE!
            Be that way.

          • Juicer77

            I vote for the shark suit.

          • iampissed

            Stilettos

      • LongtimeLurker

        Man, you always fold on the fancy dress thing fast.

    • Kestrel

      So, that’s like 2:00 am on Thursday in London, right?

      • Vaquera

        Yep. Have already alerted Juicer to set her alarm.

    • iampissed

      J3’s personal assistant….do we have to address you as Lou.
      I’m ducking now!

      • Vaquera

        No, because Jimmy hasn’t banished his wife to toil in a desert compound.

  • Kim O’Brien

    Well ….Steven obviously used the $$$ we were paying him to lie about Marty …and got a facial . His skin is fantastic .

    foiled again

    • Panopea Abrupta

      It’s the Bunker oiliness table, Kim.
      For a mere $47,000 you can use it too.

      • Kim O’Brien

        please start a gofundme page . Just put the $$ right in my checking account 😉

    • flyonthewall

      you mean, exfoilated again! eh eh??

      • Kim O’Brien

        you are NOT rimless …no matter what anyone says 🙂

    • iampissed

      Hey and he ROCKS a great hair style. I saw him at the SMP protest.
      Really nice haircut…I on the other hand tend to resemble Manson.

      • Sherbet

        Charles or Marilyn?

  • Mockingbird

    Marty just proves his intent with each new dead agent assignment he undertakes.

    He is not a very good student of the Art of War. Hubbard would consider him fifth rate as an imitator.

    Everyone knows he serves his master and will deny the same words he screamed over and over before. His passions have not died but his coat has turned.

    He could have been seen by some as heroic if he walked away but by cash or threat Miscavige turned him back and is now making him destroy his own credibility with self sabotage. the reason may include a delight Miscavige gets in crushing his enemy, or the safety he gets by getting Marty to tell so many stories no good author or law enforcement agent would ever trust Marty again.

    Marty cannot fool many critics or never ins. Miscavige knows it. He won’t get indies to come back or under the radar folks to stay either. He cannot help Scientology recruit. he can do one thing – destroy his own reputation so thoroughly Miscavige will know he cannot threaten him again. If he makes him cut off all his allies and deny too many positions he strongly held before Marty will be seen as an untrustworthy flake at best and a sell out to pure evil at worst. Either way Miscavige wins. One victory in a war, one opponent humiliated.

    Marty Rathbun may serve Miscavige but he cannot dead agent the hundreds
    and hundreds of exes and critics who know the truth about the crimes of
    Scientology. One turncoat doesn’t stop an army.

  • Mockingbird

    I think it is obvious a book on Marty Rathbun by a great journalist that documents everything he prints and thoroughly fact checks each and every claim is due. Now where could we find such a journalist that is familiar with Scientology and Marty ? And is not afraid of the cult ?

    • Juicer77

      Ask Andrew Morton. Gossipy drama is more his line.

    • Richard Grant

      I sort of agree, but if I were a journalist contemplating this project, I’d wait a bit longer — years longer, probably — to see exactly what kind of story this is.

  • Gerard Plourde

    It is truly tragic that Marty has chosen, for reasons unknown, to repudiate the evidence he personally gave concerning the abuses that he witnessed in Scientology. Given that his evidence has been corroborated by other former high-level members of the Sea Org, the actual effect of his recantation is limited, at best. The only guaranteed effect is one that has been mentioned elsewhere in this thread, namely, the damage to, and potential destruction of, his own credibility.

  • Observer

    Speaking of asshats…

    refresh

    • Sibs

      Ew.

      The other day someone I knew from high school posted a link to him as an inspirational thing. Same girl who also responded years ago to the Jaden Smith stuff by posting a brown-nosing status and adding that she would love to “work on their brand”. All of that plus the now looking up to That Asshat as an aspirational idol made me realize I should’ve unfriended her a long time ago. Can’t stand that guy or what he spouts.

    • Panopea Abrupta

      Grant Cardone: Putting the “pose” in purpose since 1958

      Putting the “rant” in Grant since forevah

    • salin

      Ew. It looks like someone threw coffee grounds on his face.

      Purpose, becoming a landing point for yesterdays used coffee grinds. Who needs to compost, when you can just use your face.

    • Snippy_X

      Your ears keep growing your whole life. They keep getting bigger and bigger and … floppier and …

  • JaxNGold

    I just love how Steve Mango was there during filming and can set the record straight..with the truth. Would love to see Marty’s response to that. LOL.

    I refuse to write a long-winded post about Marty’s shenanigans. He’s either gone completely off the rails, has made a deal with Miscavage, or both.

    • Chee Chalker

      Oh he’ll have a response…..it will start with calling Steve some names and then continue with some unrelated ‘facts’ such as ‘Steve never met Miscavige’, completely irrelevant to the point, which will, in his mind, prove beyond a doubt, that he is right.
      And he’ll throw in some big words, used or spelled incorrectly, and his ‘unbiased’ supporters will ‘ack’ him because his comm was so crystal clear.

      • LongtimeLurker

        He’s also got Alanzo backing him up in the comments.

        Apparently Steve only did the video because Tony asked (made?) him.

        • ExCult.Jan

          Tony didn’t need to force Steve do the video. Steve was already programmed to know exactly what he needed to do to not be declared an SP by Holy Ortega, Most Beneficent and True. Steve merely marches in lockstep with Bunkerites in good standing.

          We who speak Truth to Power

          • Uh, you didn’t put a PBUH after mentioning His Name. Say three Our Tonys. PBUH.

            • ExCult.Jan

              Dammit.

              R Tony
              R Tony
              R Tony

            • NO! NO! NO!
              It’s . . .
              “Our Tony, who art in Tribeca, hallowed be thy name,
              thy laptop hums, thy deadlines done,
              unearth what will keep Dave heavin’.
              Give us this day our daily dish
              and forgive us our past messes.
              And lead us down into the Bunker with kittehs and caek and wrink’ly dogs, amen.”

    • felix

      There is a third option; he’s just an average self centered guy with a chip on his shoulder, energy he doesn’t have a productive end for, and too large of an audience.

      (To which, add, “boring” and bored, self centered guy, with boring run of he mill ideas about New Age religion which he thinks are original.)

      • daisy

        I agree , people blow up their lives all the time. It is surprisingly common. A good therapist could help him understand why and how to redirect themselves. Unfortunately if you don’t think you have the problem , you are not likely to fix it and will continue to keep blowing it up. Turmoil and attention is what he knows how to deal without painful introspection and personal inventory.The real question is are we going to be watching. The answer is probably, attention is the reward so why would he stop.

        • LongtimeLurker

          Right? Acknowledge there might be an issue, find a professional to help.

          Just like one would for a sprained ankle.

          Pffft…people. They’re the worst.

  • flyonthewall

    Oh my. Comment from Marty’s latest post. f5

    • salin

      How would that get through his moderation?

      • flyonthewall

        maybe he’s posting it as proof he’s being persecuted or attacked etc? Or he just doesn’t care anymore idk.

        • LongtimeLurker

          Yeah, he may think it feeds into his (and Alanzo’s) line that The Bunker is actually worse for ex-Scientologists than Scientology.

          “You whore” is a great opening line though. Especially to a man.

          It’s like open-hand slapping a guy at the start of a fight.

          • flyonthewall
            • LongtimeLurker

              Man, my one regret that I’m no longer a rageoholic is that I never slapped a man.

              Not really. That’s terrible.

              But really.

          • edge

            I think Rinder’s is the best starting spot for exes, as that allows someone to view the hype machine from a distance and see it for the absurd ripoff that it is. I think ESMB is another good one, simply because they raked Marty over the coals when he tried to sell his indie auditing services on that board.

        • Ben Franklin

          I don’t trust those kind of posts because it can also be OSA fanning the flames to make it seem as if it is from one of Marty’s favorite Anti-Scientology Group

        • Gertrudis

          DM might have posted it.
          It’s written in his profane, immature style.
          It would give DM so much pleasure to call Marty these names in Marty’s own blog.
          And knowing it was from DM might explain why Marty didn’t delete it.

        • ExCult.Jan

          “Proof” of non-censorship, is how I read it.

          (I dare someone to reply it’s more like nonsense-orship.)

      • MarcabExpat

        “look, everybody, how cruelly I’m treated just because I bravely speak the truth”

  • Chee Chalker

    I would just like to apologize to the Squirrel Busters. How rude of me not to invite you into my home
    during those hot Texas days. Clearly I was projecting my own rudeness onto you when I recorded you with my phone.
    Especially since I invited you down to visit me in Texas and then I rudely kept you outside. I am so glad you were thorough enough to rent golf carts and paddle boats when I so rudely tried to keep you out of my subdivision.
    So let me set the record straight. I invited the Squirrel Busters to come to Texas. Ortega then jumped to the conclusion that they ‘invaded’ my peaceful and tranquil home. This is because Ortega did not bother to interview me or any of the Squirrel Busters.
    One more thing…..David had nothing to do with making of the movie Battlefield Earth. Mike Rinder and I were responsible for editing that film into the pile of garbage it was. If we had only followed the text of the #1 best seller of all time, it would have been a hit. Also John Travolta took a salary and is a DB.

    Sincerely,
    Marty Rathbun

    • edge

      “I’d also like to make an amendment to the final pages of my book, Memoires of a Scientology Warrior, where I detail L. Ron Hubbard’s attempt to commit suicide via use of an electrified e-meter. That did not occur because I was not there to personally observe it. I was merely projecting my dark thoughts onto Steve Pfouth and L Ron Hubbard himself. L Ron Hubbard died in the manner described by David Miscavige. Any attempts to say otherwise are provable bullshit”

    • JaxNGold

      LOL at the Squirrel Busters thing. Maybe Marty can come up with an apology for hosing them down with water, too?

  • Anony-Lurker

    Marty seems to be the big discussion point here today, but on some of the yahoo news boards, there are some heated discussions going on about Greta and Scientology.

    The general consensus seems to be that she was fired because of being a Scientologist. (I’m sure this isn’t the case at all) This isn’t just a few Scientologists, yelling but many people who believe Scientology is a religion and about freedom of religion.

    I really thought most knew about Scientology, but I guess it’s still not really mainstream yet.

    Reading this blog and the discussions every day, it’s easy to think that the world knows the real truth, but I suppose it’s still just a few and fewer still who are appalled by it.

    • LongtimeLurker

      I was talking to a knowledgable, well-educated friend the other day, whose knowledge of Scientology would be a bit above average I’d say.

      And I mentioned how exes need a soft landing place and how hard it can be to integrate into non-Scientology society.

      When he asked me to explain I paraphrased some stories (someone here said they didn’t know how to rent a house, for example). He initially didn’t believe me.

      I’m always careful on other boards to say that I have no problem with their beliefs (although they’re clearly just made up on the fly by an asshole) but that it’s the abuses, misuse of tax-exemption and criminal activity that I care about.

    • Ben Franklin

      I believe Greta was fired because Brit Hume wanted her job. It is an election year and I believe that FOX wanted a proven flame thrower in that spot who can throw red meat to Trump’s crowd. If it had anything to do with Scientology she could have been fired long time ago. It seems to me that the only person who was keeping Greta in that coveted time-slot was Roger Ailes. Once Roger Ailes was gone, Greta became easy picking as she does not necessarily have a reputation as a staunch conservative.

  • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

    OT I’m so thrilled to not see Greta On the Record (Fox) tonight and Brit Hume has replaced her. I’m sure she will be coming to Clearwater where she has a home on the beach, for some auditing for her loss. Poor thing!

    • Juicer77

      Wonder if they will demand that Brit Hume wear the shorty skirts?

    • Sherbet

      Greta’s been reading.

      • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

        Wouldn’t that be special?

  • Chee Chalker

    My response to Alonzo (posted here for posterity lest it get ‘lost’ over at MOUALH – how I love that acronym!)

    Hi Alonzo,
    From the way I read it, Ortega provided two witnesses. Tom DeVocht as a witness to Miacavige’s behavior in The Hole and Steve Mango, a witness to the filming.

    Marty has provided no witnesses.

    Tom DeVocht’s recollections (of Miscavige’s
    violence) are backed up by many many people, including Marty (on occasions outside of Theroux’s movie). Jefferson Hawkins for example, chimed in on the comments over at the Bunker and agreed with Tom DeVocht.

    Maybe it would help if Marty clarified things. Marty, are you simply saying that Miscavige was not violent while you were in The Hole or are you now saying that Miscavige was never violent, that you projected your own violent behavior onto David?

    As far as what happened during the filming, Steve shared his two cents, Marty gave his and Theroux filmed it.
    I guess we can wait to view the film and make our own observations and see how much we are willing to blame on editing.

  • OOkpik

    Steven Mango, thank you for chiming in.
    Things keep getting curiouser and curiouser.
    I’ll be happier when all this ugliness is finally laid to rest.
    F5

    • Liberated

      Too funny.

    • outraged

      wha…what am I watching here?

    • My Gawd! 🙂

  • Wog

    After listening to Steve Mango’s video – it sounded like Marty Rathbun was dramatizing LRH and COB?? His Scientological “case” so to speak. Unfortunately – these are some of the adverse side effects of high ranking ex scientologists.

  • iampissed

    THANK YOU Steven Mango…you ROCK

  • LongtimeLurker
    • iampissed

      Fly get this guy a promotion deal….now.

      • iampissed

        Practicing my lame DM

    • flyonthewall

      ….

      • LongtimeLurker

        …I mean let’s be honest…it’s not a great build…

        Looks like he didn’t have a very good parts selection.

        But good on him anyway.

  • Mary Smith

    My speculation is Marty is getting paid off sometime in the future when the attorneys that represented his wife have lost interest. As a part of the deal he has to retract everything bad he ever said about Miscaviage. It seems like an obvious scenario.

    • MCurie

      maybe some mega-trust-fund set up for his child?…..that doesn’t pay off until child is in 20s and is never in Marty or Monique’s name. That’d take care of a college fund and inheritance etc.

      • MaxSpaceman

        Thinking it is much more ‘present time’

        It is ‘so’ easy to establish off-shore accounts, funnel $$$ into them, move it around to other companies, other countries (Luxembourg et al) and then into the hands of Mark.

        It’s current money. He will never have to earn a dollar the rest of his days.

        • MCurie

          True, he could get the money that way; but if he used it in any noticeable way then the attorneys that represented Monique would notice and could start an investigation that they(M&M) are spending more than their previous assets and current income as recorded by IRS permit…and then ask the question: where are these funds coming from? …busted. Long term thinking about securing child’s future also allow M&M not to worry much about working toward the future (education is expensive) and just make subsistence income.

          • MaxSpaceman

            He wouldn’t do anything unusual. He’d support his family spending $5-10k per month. It’s not rocket science for money men (people) to set up something like that. And over 25 years would only be a few million in payout.

            That would be letting Dave off cheap. But who knows Mark C’s mind– he certainly does not. So who knows …

    • Marty: Okay, I’ve done all my part of the deal: I dropped the lawsuit, I attacked as many critics as I could, I tried to trash My Scientology Movie, destroyed my reputation as a knowledgeable ex. Now about the money as your part of ..

      CoS: What deal?

      • Juicer77

        ^^^

    • Robert Eckert

      My bet is still that Marty got zero zippo zilch nil nada, only the humiliation of knowing that his cleverness backfired on him badly.

  • outraged

    Like any relationship, any collaboration, there are always many sides to the ‘story’.
    Thank YOU Steven Mango for bringing us back to the level playing field, to a place of exploration and understanding. Instead of throwing out blame left and right, with no purpose but harm and self-satisfaction.

    Tony suggested many moons ago that we may never know why or wherefore or whether.

    Mr. Rathbun only sends his messages via a blog where cleaning out the laundry pile is a priority.
    May the end be near.

    • outraged

      couldn’t’ help it…..

      • LongtimeLurker
        • Sookie Sookie

          LL, I think(?) you grew up there, so I don’t know if you realize how captivating it us for us Up Over folks to see that face… that snout, on that body. I laugh or “aww” at every single wombat image.

          • LongtimeLurker

            I did Sookie. And in Queensland in the 70s when the native fauna laws were pretty lax compared to today (my mom rescued and raised an orphaned kangaroo joey, which I’m pretty sure today would get you fined).

            Your reaction is what I hope for. And I’m pretty much the same.

            If I’d never seen one in the flesh and someone told me they were make-believe, I’d buy it.

            I’m pretty biased though, I’m a huge animal/pet person.

            One of those irritating people who talks to your dog when you’re trying to walk it.

            Or stops in the middle of the sidewalk to watch a crow (raven) go about its business.

            • EmmaDaoust

              I have to say it. Drop Bears.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Oh, yeah. They’re terrifying.

              My dad worked for the Ministerial Agency for Dropbear Eradication (Urban Patrol) as a sniper in the 80s.

              He still won’t talk about it.

            • EmmaDaoust
            • LongtimeLurker

              Ha!

            • Robert Eckert

              Trivia: drop bears aren’t marsupial, like most Australian indigenous mammals, and of course they aren’t true bears either; their closest relative is the North American jackalope

            • EmmaDaoust

              That being a cross between a jackfruit and a cantaloupe.

            • LongtimeLurker

              I did not I know that!

      • daisy

        That is it. No more lying around for Fat beagle. She is going to do laundry or at least wash the dishes. She doesn’t think its important to do anything but look cute and let me pet her on occasion. ENOUGH ( to be fair she does do the dishes with her tongue but never rinses them.)

      • Wireless Wombat sends her regards.

  • Its very clear what Marty is up to with the recent attacks on Tony, Ray Jeffrey and now the the movie and it’s makers. I don’t know what prompted Marty to to start being a shill for OSA and Miscavige… I gave him the benefit of the doubt at one time, believing it possible that Mosey just wanted out of the lawsuit, so understandable because of the pressures it creates in ones life. I’ve seen it take it’s toll on plaintiffs in Narconon cases, where they sometimes just want to get it all over with because it’s just gone on for o long.. But then we saw the weird post attacking on Tony around that time, followed by unsubstantiated accusations against Mosey’s attorney, Ray Jeffrey after her attorneys filed stating that she let them go. Those were real eye openers. Now all this about the movie. The timing is intentional. Frankly, hardly anyone reads or listens to Marty any longer, not as before. Perhaps its best to ignore him as the troll he seems to be now.

  • TexasBroad

    F5
    It appears Marty’s idea of housekeeping is similar to mine…

  • ExCult.Jan

    Just posted to Marty’s blog. I’ll let you know if it gets past the censor.
    ——————————————————————————————
    Marty,

    I respond here as a former cultist “used” by Louis Theroux, so I know of what I speak. I have personally been on the receiving end of his interviewing style and camera crew for Michael Moore’s “TV Nation”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djZ_ze5qyuo before I exited.

    Watching the leader and my (former) fellow cultists get excited about the anticipated publicity they believed would result just added to my cognitive dissonance, which was getting pretty loud by that time. For someone not engaged in the groupthink that clearly continues to interest Louis, it would have been impossible to not anticipate the extreme embarrassment of being included in a national program where everyone else in the other cults was so obviously a flaming wackjob. But nobody admitted that out loud. At the time, I only let myself think it for about ¼ second. It is still excruciating, so much so that this is the first I’ve ever mentioned it, even anonymously. So I get it. I get how embarrassing it must be now for you to look back on your role as his movie is about to hit US airwaves.

    I also watched the leader and my (former) fellow cultists slam Louis for not getting it ‘right’ and for making fun of us rather than getting the importance of the ‘true’ message out there and not following the leader’s script. Numerous diatribes tearing down Big Bad Louis resulted. They circulated in order to fan the group’s indignation which barely camouflaged our secret personal humiliation.

    That said, it’s NOT “Marty’s Scientology Movie”, it’s Louis’ movie. He is a genius at drawing out people with odd beliefs. It was Louis’ movie from the get go, not a vehicle for your personal agenda. For you to expect otherwise is beyond naïve. Lots of folks are speculating on your motive for writing this now. From where I sit, having also been a subject of Louis Theroux, I believe you must secretly feel utterly chagrined as you are about to be seen by a wide audience with no scientology investment.

    While “TV Nation” was simply humorous entertainment for most viewers, it likely raised healthy questions for others. Confronting the reason for my secret embarrassment was one of the final straws that broke me free from any agenda or mission involving the leader’s teachings. Louis gets some credit for being both entertaining and enlightening, even though his wasn’t the script I supported at the time. In other words, Louis Theroux was a catalyst for a huge fu*king growth opportunity (FGO) for me. I hope being one of Louis’ subjects becomes “just another FGO” for you, too, one day.

    EDIT to fix formatting of the paste.
    EDIT to clarify FGO 😉

    • daisy

      FGO ?

      • MaxSpaceman

        fucking growth opportunity

        • daisy

          THX

        • Jo

          Hadn’t a clue what that mean’t too.

          • MaxSpaceman

            it was in the comment text, the last 2 sentences 🙂

            by this time, I’d figured dAisy was on her 2nd Fifth and Fat Beagle was splayed out lounging around, and she missed it 🙂

            • Jo

              Way over my head, lol, night Spaceman.

    • Sookie Sookie

      Please don’t be embarrassed, if you still are. None of us know what we’ll fall for if it’s never happened to us before. Even if we think we do.

      • Kim O’Brien

        if he was one of the racist nazi’s in the blue uniform waiting for all the non whites to burn in hell …i’m gonna say ” be embarrassed ” because holy shitballz ….you have GOT to be kidding me . UM ..NO

        • Sookie Sookie

          I’m gonna disagree since, as far as I understand it, racist groups can exert undue influence just like religious cultz do.

        • ExCult.Jan

          Whew! Not THAT crazy cult!

          • Kim O’Brien

            i am glad you are out and here shooting the shit with us 😉

            • ExCult.Jan

              Thanks, Kim. I have a bone to pick with $cientology, since it (including Marty) was actively tearing down CAN and fair gaming Cynthia Kisser – huge life lines to my exit and self-deprogramming.

        • LongtimeLurker

          Oooooh, I do like a nice blue uniform.

      • ExCult.Jan

        Thanks, Sookie. I know I shouldn’t be embarrassed, but 22 years later it’s a part of my life I very, very rarely share with friends I’ve made since then.

        • oknow

          Likewise.

    • felix

      Has Marty ever done any theater before? The end product is never what it was in your own mind, there are just too many people involved. “Naive” is correctly used in your post. Marty has lived way too many years to be this indignant because a production came out differently from the image in his own mind.

      • ExCult.Jan

        Substitute ‘real life’ for ‘theater’.

    • Kestrel

      Thank you for this. Beautifully written.

    • MarcabExpat

      As another escapee from a different cult, I can’t applaud this fantastic statement loudly enough.

      Meeting reality head on for the first time in a while is NOT fun. But it is not going to adapt to you. You have to adapt to it. A great deal of the act of exiting consists of comprehending that, and then getting down to it.

      • ExCult.Jan

        Thanks, Expat.

        In a nutshell.

    • salin

      Appreciate your post/experience. What an awesome post – sharing the dissonance, the jarring distance in the aftermath between how you started to view the moment compared to others still under the coercive-group think and the inferred shared (unspoken) experience by others. Poignant, painful, with empathy-based offering of an alternative perspective for Marty. At this
      moment, from what he has written, I don’t think he can be receptive.

      However, to readers at both places – I am willing to bet that you reached many with this powerful post. Thank You. *Standing and applauding.*

      • ExCult.Jan

        Salin,
        *wipes tears*
        Empathy and the wish to help others was the soft spot my recruiter used to suck me in to a religious group purporting such grand goals as the oneness of humanity, elimination of prejudice, gender equality, justice, education, science…
        It took lots and lots of dissonant experiences until I finally realized I had been conned, that the true goal of the group was to meet the leader’s deep narcissistic needs.
        I hope Marty can see his way through when the dissonance gets loud enough. Not everyone does. My ex-husband (who was my recruiter first) remains a believer to this day, and continued to shun me 8 years later when we crossed paths in JC Penny’s in Minot, ND of all bizarre places in the world. He makes his living practicing magical thinking on the gullible, selling long distance energy healing it takes one to know one. I am sad for him, for Marty, and for what everyone here has gone through to get here.

        • salin

          *wiping tears as well*

          Your voice is both so emotionally poignant, and also so willing to share examples to exemplify the points you are making. I weep for the example of the casual crossing of paths with your ex – and the rigid response – and ‘you are dead to me’ message conveyed. That you have moved past the dwelling on ‘personal insult’, to the philosophical/empathetic space expressed is striking.

          I am deeply moved by your posts. I hope that you become comfortable sharing your voice.

          Probably am off line for a day or so – which abruptly ends the conversation, for which I am sorry. That said, I am glad that our paths crossed, virtually.

          • ExCult.Jan

            The blessing of that moment in JC Penney’s was that my gut response was to laugh out loud as he passed me. It just happened. And I knew I was finally free.

            Thank you, Salin, for your kindness.

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          Okay I am also crying. Empathy and the wish to help others – I know that is what brought many people into other dangerous groups as well. I am so glad for you Jan.

          • ExCult.Jan

            Narcissist gurus can sniff out empathy from the other side of the galaxy.

            • Free Minds, Free Hearts

              Scary but I think you are right. Bless you Jan, and your kind heart.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Thank you ExCultJan, for such a powerful comment and for the link to the video which is quite amazing to watch for someone who knew nothing about any of these groups. I am so glad that participating in the film helped you to see the fallacy of your own belief/delusion. And I am glad you are out, hoping you are healing. It seems like no matter the cult, there is a needed time for decompression and for healing.

      • ExCult.Jan

        Thanks so very much, FMFH.

    • ExCult.Jan

      WADDYA KNOW?!?
      Posted (dammit, onto yesterday’s blog due to my pasting mistake) with a reply:

      Mark C. Rathbun | September 6, 2016 at 8:43 pm | Reply

      Thanks. Interesting. I have no issue with
      Louis Theroux. I knew who he was coming in. As noted I had no agenda –
      and the record shows it – to carry Scientology’s brief.The issue for me
      is summed up in the first paragraph of the review.

      —————————————————————-
      Here’s the first paragraph of Marty’s review.

      “I found the film “My Scientology Movie” to be saddening. It evidences the degeneration of a once considerable talent, award-winning producer Simon Chinn. During my involvement in the movie’s
      creation I witnessed Chinn being sucked into the staged-news, infotainment vortex that seems to have consumed the erstwhile Fourth Estate. I will share a back story to the project to illustrate the concern.”

      MUCH more clear now! How did I miss that? But still, I’ve managed to misplace the erstwhile (?) record proving Marty has no agenda. I think I must have set my empathy on top of that box. Hope it doesn’t leave a permanent watermark.

      • LongtimeLurker

        Oh yeah.

        Super-clear.

        Clear? Super!

        Charging…CLEAR!

        Pulse!…SUPER!

    • I don’t find that post on Martys blog?

      • ExCult.Jan

        Realized I’d pasted it on the previous day’s blog by mistake when my browser opened to the tab already open. I messaged Marty asking him to fix that for me. Haven’t looked to see if he did.

        • Damn! I hope he does, that was so an important insight and it really made my day. I remeber i saw that documentary a long time ago!

          • ExCult.Jan

            Thanks, Dice!
            It was quite an experience to be involved in the interviews, etc, and then see the final product while still “in”. Especially since David Koresh was reading the same script as the narcissist who conned me into believing (on some warped level) that he was the Messiah. Barf.
            And not long after, also while still “in”, to watch the Waco compound burn.

      • ExCult.Jan

        It’s now on the correct page using copy-paste tech.

  • Bavarian Rage

    Thanks for the counterpoint video, Steve. Your perspective comes across as the observations of a neutral bystander, which builds a credible backbone to our foregone conclusions. But even had you not spoken out, there still wouldn’t have been any question as to whose horse I’d be hitching my wagon to in the “he said-she said” Theroux-Rathbun debate.

  • Mymy88

    Hi. I’m just making a quickie visit out from lurkdom land. I want to comment on this Marty stuff but I’m not letting myself do that. This is progress for me lol. In the past I would not have been able to hold my tongue, whether good or bad or both things to say about the situation. So I am going to reward myself by bragging on how beautiful my precious kitty (Kiki) is by posting this pic and then I’m going back to lurksville. I will say this… it has been fascinating reading on today’s blog.

    • Mymy88

      (Refresh) Kiki…

      • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

        Hello, blue-eyed beauty. Kiki Dee says hey back. (F5)

        • Mymy88

          Well I certainly can tell who rules the kitchen activities (and probably most else) in your household hee hee. Kiki Dee looks like she might be a bit of a micro manager, but aren’t they all lol?.

          Do you tell her…

          “Right from the start
          I gave you my heart
          So don’t go breaking my heart”?

          • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

            Ha! I tell her that every day. But she’s got the music in her, so what can I do?

            • Mymy88

              Ah, musical cats are the best cats! Me, I always just get the crazy pranksters.

            • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

              Punks, pranksters, and prima donnas…the story of my cat-owning life. ; )

            • Mymy88

              LOL and let’s not forget about the occasional downright gangsta!

        • LongtimeLurker

          I helpz cook!

          • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

            Yeah, more like, “Where mah food, hooman?”

            • Juicer77

              Dat nose smudge. <3

            • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

              It’s boop-able. ; )

            • Mymy88

              “Boopable” LMAO. I love that.

          • Mymy88

            LOL I bet.

      • TheMirrorThetan

        Kiki has such beautiful Blue eyes.

      • Juicer77

        So lovely!!

        • Mymy88

          Thank you and Kiki says thank you. She is so friendly. Any time she meets some one new, she says in this really high kitty voice (well I actually do it for her) “Hello, my name is Kiki. What’s your name? Do you want to play with me?”

    • ExCult.Jan

      *tips hat*

  • Kim O’Brien

    I guess we don’t have to wonder TOO much about Marty’s view on Rinder’s blog

    Ann | September 6, 2016 at 8:16 pm | Reply
    Marty, no matter what your personal beliefs are, your public behavior reveals an erratic and incongruent behavior pattern. As for your readers: screw us, we are adult enough to deal with your snark and the condescension you spew towards anyone to is not on Team Marty.
    Behind the scenes is where the distruction lies. Your public behavior has placed your family in a desparate situation. How is a young boy able to learn about negotiating life from an angry raging father? Where is his safe place? And Monique, when is it her turn to get back a husband that cherishes her instead of one who spends time and effort fighting invisible enemies?
    Just check out of the madness and man up and get on the same page with your family. You have given a majority of your life dealing with Scientology. Now it is the time to give youself and your family a new and healthier vision as a goal to achieving more contentment.
    I am no expert, but with 34 years of marriage behind me, we would not have had such a stable and happy family life if we neglected our marriage and focused on other people’s opinions. Just get started, before you lose anything more. Best wishes.

    Mark C. Rathbun | September 6, 2016 at 8:45 pm | Reply
    Go back to Mike’s blog where he’ll stroke your sorry ass projections.

    • SciWatcher

      Jesus

    • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

      Well…shit.

      Much as I want to hear Rinder’s take on all this, I kinda hope he just takes the high road and stays out of it publicly. Why bother getting your hands dirty when Marty’s doing such a nice job of digging his own grave?

    • edge

      It’s funny. Mike actually lives in Clearwater and he’s been able to make a nice exit from Scientology. Marty is in small-town Texas, far from any Scientology organization and he has seemingly hyped himself (and possibly sold himself) back into Scientology.

      • Kim O’Brien

        great point

      • ExCult.Jan

        Or never really left.

        • edge

          True dat. Even when he was “out” he never quite seemed like he was fully out. He would often try to rationalize and excuse Scientology’s evils and LRH. Everyone should read his “Ode to Ron” for both the lulz and to get an idea of how “out” he is.

        • Somehow I doubt the Squirrel-Busters were just a clever way to back up his claim to being out.

          • ExCult.Jan

            He maybe left DM-world, but he didn’t leave all of his thought-reform and his rank behind.

    • MaxSpaceman

      Behavioral Health disability/dysfunction is genetic in Mark C. Rathbun’s family. He, reportedly, 1st investigated Scn to help his brother.

      Mark is hanging on, to be able to live in society — as a douche fuckwit, most certainly — since he has nothing left but his own dysfunctional aberration. A major, major loser.

    • What’sup

      I really wish people would leave Mosey and kid out of it. Nobody knows what Marty is like as a husband and father. So he spends several hours a day on the net? If we’re to assume everybody who does is a bad spouse, then we need to hold mirror up to ourselves. For all we know he’s the most attentive, romantic and supportive cat on earth, maybe he can switch his mind off as easily as he can his computer.

      Nobody has been more critical of MR here than me, I have always maintained he was unhinged and you Kim were really the only one to agree with me. It wasn’t a popular opinion here until recently. But I refuse to speculate on the state of his family union. Mosey is likely blissfully unaware of Marty’s recent rants and the kid most certainly is.

      • LongtimeLurker

        Yeah, I agree with this.

        From what I’ve seen, would I want Marty as a husband or father (or neighbour, or Uber driver)?

        No.

        But I know nothing about what he’s like away from the keyboard or the camera (now, post-CoS).

        Personally, I think he sucks, but that doesn’t mean he’s a bad father/spouse.

        Having said that, I’m sure I’ve probably said the opposite in some forgotten comment about someone, so I should probably be ignored.

      • Kim O’Brien

        ( i am not the one who wrote the post 😉 and i tend to agree with you . Although .
        “.run mosey run ” has for sure crossed my keyboard fingers because parts of this are just really , really freaky .

        • What’sup

          Yeah, I realise you didn’t write it.

        • LongtimeLurker

          Well, when you typed that (yesterday ?) I thought “shit yeah.”

          And I’ve thought about writing similar things.

          I guess I feel it’s a bit much when you scroll down and 20% of the comments say something about her or their child.*

          But it’s not each individual commenter’s responsibility to self-censor just because it’s already been said.

          I dunno what I’m saying….

          (*Yeah, I know Alanzo, it’s an example of our groupthink and I don’t even realize. Good one.)

          • Kim O’Brien

            i feel ya

      • TheMirrorThetan

        Totally agree with this. It feels Icky when they are speculated over.
        I mentioned a long time ago that Marty was just taller version of DM and the recent carryon has only confirmed that.

        • What’sup

          I’ve never been really able to grasp why those forty execs in the hole or any of the other downtrodden saps didn’t revolt against him. Oh I’ve heard some attempted explanations but they sound like a cop out. When push came to shove Dave was probably the weakest guy in the room. They should have conspired, they should of put that sorry little weasel in the hole.

          Piss weak.

          • Missionary Kid

            Remember the $cientology meme that it’s always your fault, and never the Co$’s. People who ended up in the hole aren’t given time to really stop and think any other way than what they’re told.

            Also, remember that $cientology is a snitching society. When Marc Headley escaped, he didn’t tell his wife, because she couldn’t then be accused of witholding information.

            If one is in the hole, they dare not advocate anything contrary to what they’re told. It was/is a re-education camp, along the lines of what Chairman Mao had.

      • Frodis73

        I also agree with this, this is about Marty and Marty only. Mosey only plays a small role because of the lawsuit…but the kid is (or at least should be) totally off limits!!

      • Juicer77

        You’re right, they deserve privacy and respect. But behavior like this usually affects many areas of one’s life. It’s just not compartmentalized like that.

    • Frodis73

      I am kinda shocked about the Mike comment…wow.

      • Rita G

        I’m not shocked by anything Marty does at this point.

    • TheMirrorThetan

      Wow. Who pissed in his Cheerios this morning? I guess there is no love lost there.

    • FredEX2

      OMG what?!!! Marty is dissing Mike now too? They’ve been best buddies and good friends for years. Now he’s REALLY crossed the line. Wow.

  • daisy

    mike rinders blog—oops

  • I’m not sure what flower that it. (It was from a bag of seed with over a dozen Humming Bird-pleasing plants.) Anyone know?

    ..

    • Kim O’Brien

      red yucca ? looks similar …

    • LongtimeLurker

      Triffid?

    • Susan black

      Looks like one of the salvias. Hummers love them, especially the red ones…that’s what the books say. My hummers prefer the blue ones. Me too, cuz theyre some of the truest blues found in flowers.

  • the effervescent mongoloid

    I think it might be better for everybody to ignore Marty Rathbun. He’s unbalanced, delusional and I hope he’s not dangerous.

  • Peter Robinson

    Whatever may be going on with Marty Rathburn, and without making any excuses for him whatsoever, perhaps there should be a degree of understanding that scifiology can fuck you up good and proper, and his odd behaviour might at least in part be put down to that?

    • edge

      From what I’ve read and observed Scientology breaks down your critical thinking while simultaneously pumping up the ego. So in Marty’s mind he might not be a lawyer, but he’s certainly smarter legally than Ray Jeffry. Same thing with maintaining a blog or writing books or even being an Ex-Scientologist. He’s the greatest thing there ever was. A legend in his own mind.

      • He was also once a powerful figure in Scientology – a position he seems to think was deserved and taken wrongly from him. His arrogance may well be compensation for this.

    • Juicer77

      Yes. And the recovery process is highly individual.

  • yogi29073

    I read this blog a couple of times a week for over three years and was shocked when Monique pulled her lawsuit.
    I also read both Mike and Marty’s blogs. After Monique dropped her suit there was a shift in Marty’s blog and this blog in directions that were…interesting?? is the best way to describe it…I guess??
    I have tried to figure out what’s been going on and the changes in both blogs.
    I might mention I am a “never in”.
    I have a theory about what is going on, and thought I’d put down my thoughts. I have a background in investigations from being retired from law enforcement. When I did investigate incidents, there were always two or more sides of the story and a good investigator would try and answer questions of who, what, when where and why.
    The “why” was always the hardest and, at times, filling in the “blanks” in one story with another story got dicey at times, but after doing investigation after investigation, there came a time when things usually came together after pulling bits and pieces of both sides of the event together and coming up with a pretty good idea of what went down. Sooo, here goes:
    I think, as do a lot of other commentators on this blog as well as Mr. Ortega may think, that some sort of deal was struck between scientology and Marty. The proof of this particular “deal”? Marty’s reversal of his attitude towards scientology with his two very blistering critiques of articles that have been a direct negative attack on scientology and miscavige himself.
    Here’s the tricky part…the “why”! There doesn’t seem to be any money offered to Marty, at least none that can be traced to him…at this time!?! Monique dropped the lawsuit and fired her lawyers and then there was…nothing, no comment, no statement, nothing. If money was offered by scientology to Monique, then her lawyers were entitled to a major portion of that settlement and so far they have received nothing.
    I have watched, with horror how Marty has been stalked and harassed by scientology over the years. I read, with horror the “Truth Rundown” articles. So, what am I leading up to here? Maybe a deal was struck, one in which, if Monique dropped her lawsuit, all of the harassment by scientology would stop and Marty and his family would go into the night with peace. There may have been a caveat to all of this, that Marty could not say anything anymore about scientology in a bad way.
    What I don’t get is Marty’s reversal towards miscavige and why he is going on the attack. All the attention paid to Marty by scientology in the past was, in my opinion, devastating, but to now take up the mantle of defending miscavige and scientology??? Whisky Tango Foxtrot!!! Was that part of the deal to make peace with scientology and be left alone??? If so, he is now facing the rath of this blog and other ex scientologist. so he seems to have traded one form of craziness for another.
    This web Marty is weaving for himself is not finished, so only time will tell. Like I said, there are usually two sides of a story, and it’s bits and pieces that a good investigator will pull out to make some sense of what took place. I don’t have all the bits and pieces yet, but I’m working on it, as are the commentators of this bog and Marty’s. I’m just still confused about it all since Mr. Ortega and Marty were, at one point, on the same side of the street. Not now, and that is…confusing, and for me personally, crazy…on Marty’s and Monique’s part. Hopefully, we still may get some real answers. My money is on the lawyers uncovering something. Time will tell.

    • daisy

      As far as I know Mr. Ortega did not say or imply that there was any deal struck between scientology and Marty.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        I agree. Haven’t seen that part myself either.

      • LongtimeLurker

        Yeah. Unless I missed it not only hasn’t he said that, but he’s actually given reasons why it might be unlikely.

        Not that that makes any difference to the likes of Alanzo, who repeatedly claim that Tony has repeatedly claimed Marty is working for CoS.

    • Robert Eckert

      He dropped the lawsuit for nothing, so the harassment started again, and now the deal is that there will be continuous harassment unless he kisses Miscavige butt and attacks Miscavige’s enemies.

    • Richard Grant

      This is a really fine comment, with which I would only quibble on two discrete points, which are probably the same point viewed from different angles:

      • “a shift in Marty’s blog and this blog”
      • “Mr. Ortega and Marty were, at one point, on the same side of the street.”

      As I see it, Tony is and always has been a serious journalist, committed to discovering the truth and laying it out in a manner that is at once trustworthy, accessible, entertaining and sometimes riveting. Marty is a different sort of cat. I seriously question whether it’s accurate to suggest that these guys were ever “on the same side” of anything. And I would definitely argue against the proposition that there has been any shift in Tony’s blog that is remotely comparable to the psychotic break occurring in near real-time at Marty’s place.

      • Juicer77

        Hello Mr. G 🙂

    • Juicer77

      I think you are correct about the deal to drop the lawsuit. Plus some uniquely twisted logic that it a Rathbun hallmark.

  • L. Wrong Hubturd

    What’s the chance it’s not really Marty posting his own thoughts at this point, but rather following a script laid out by Miscavige? Why? I don’t have a clue, but his attacks and blog posts shout of hand of DM.

    • daisy

      nice to see you back

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        I been lurking whilst super busy with RL, but thank you. It’s good to be back.

        • What’sup

          G’day mate.

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            Yo!

    • A lot of the turns of phrase seem to be pure Marty. It’s probably him, or maybe someone who’s good at imitation. The last couple of posts seemed smoother, like an editor had tweaked them, but that’s just an impression.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        I agree, it sounds like Marty, but edited by DM. Too many stock Scientology phrases like a Karen Pouw letter.

      • It seems to me that the latest posts are examples of extended writing – something that Marty has not done for some time. His posts up to that point, have either been short or not able to sustain a single argument for long.

        Its more as if he has been given an outline to fill in.

    • Qbird

      Where have you been, Doll?!!!

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Super busy with RL. All good though. 😉

        Thanks for asking, Qb.

        • Qbird

          Thank you for the ‘all good’.

        • Robert Eckert

          Good things in RL are good!

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            My cup currently runneth over.

            • Baby

              Oh honey that just means that you have to buy a bigger bra..

        • Jimmy3

          Probably locked in a trunk somewhere, right?

    • TheMirrorThetan

      Hello to my favourite buttplug. Haven’t seen you in ages. 🙂

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Awww, shucks. I’d wave and blush, but you’d never recognize either one.

        • TheMirrorThetan

          LOL.

    • Juicer77

      Hi you 🙂
      No idea. IMHO Rathbun has wandered off into MartyWorld where he makes the rules and they change at whim.

  • Jimmy3

    Can every day be Marty Day?

    • daisy

      It*s not ?

      • Jimmy3

        Hi I like yo face

        • daisy

          * blush* You once described it as an aging ball sack., you sweet talker you. I like your acorn face too.

          • Jimmy3

            I wouldn’t have said something so inappropriate. My Mom taught me that if I don’t have anything nice to say,

            • daisy

              You can say that with confidence secure in the knowledge I have no idea how to screen cap or link. Wait ..what Your mom didn’t finish that sentence.

            • Jimmy3

              Some would say she’s still serving that sentence.

            • daisy

              giggle Glad to know other people have loved ones in the big house.

      • Liberated

        I didn’t know Canada has Labor Day too.
        Don’t you dare wear white after yesterday. Time to put away your white shoes, white jacket, pants and hat. If I catch you….I’ll never comment to you again.

        • salin

          Have to commute up to the school tomorrow. *Remember to where something white, just to flaunt conventions.*

          • Liberated

            I just knew you were a rebel deep down inside.

            • salin

              🙂 Likewise.

        • daisy

          I am not sure if that is a threat or incentive .jk I did not wear white even when it was a job requirement. ( we could get away with ivory ) I a too sloppy.

          • Liberated

            It doesn’t apply to nurses.

        • What’s Gandalf supposed to do?

          • Liberated

            Doesn’t apply to him, there are exceptions.

        • FredEX2

          😉

    • Liberated

      Marty who?

    • iampissed

      No

  • TheMirrorThetan

    Is there anyone who still doesn’t believe there has been a deal made? Just curious.
    A settlement doesn’t have to be cash you know.

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Maybe he was offered his eternity back?

      • TheMirrorThetan

        Who feckin’ knows? Nothing surprises me about this shitstorm.

        • Ella Raitch

          Shitstorm, train wreck. …tomato, tomahto

          • Qbird

            mabbe teh LRH tech, which he so loves, will help to see him thru ~

      • edge

        Scientology bribery…of course! By the theta vested in me by LRH’s thetan, you now have regained all the status and OT abilities that were heretofore cancelled by the goldenrod. May traffic lights again obey you, and full parking lots fear you.

      • Baby

        Damn .. ” He Lives..”

    • LongtimeLurker

      Me.

      And I think Fly and Daisy.

      He’s just a messed up dude with (rimless) zero self-awareness.

      • Richard Grant

        +1

    • Richard Grant

      I’m an agnostic on this point, though I honor your insight that a settlement doesn’t have to be cash.

      I think it’s possible that we are trying to impose meaning or rationale or sanity onto something that is just basically crazy, or perhaps unbelievably stupid.

      • Quite. This is a person who was taught by the CofS to isolate himself, socially and intellectually, from wider society and that he was an exceptional person by virtue of his knowledge of Scientology.

        Although he is no longer part of the CofS (and has no prospect of returning) he learned his lesson so well that he is still isolated in those ways – but completely on his own. To understand his actions and his motives, you have to understand his individual state of mind with no reliable information about his situation to guide you.

        You can try, but the truth is going to be the result of such a chaotic process that you have little chance of success.

    • Frodis73

      Me. Something happened, of that there is no doubt, but I do not believe he got any kind of cash settlement,

  • salin

    An evening Aurora photo – several days old (Sept 1) – but for Robert and our other Michigander Bunkerites – this image was captured in Grand Rapids: http://spaceweathergallery.com/indiv_upload.php?upload_id=129165&PHPSESSID=q42l29tm82rrq8p32psj0kjbh0

    Good night all – I’ll try to peek in, but will be mostly off line for the next day or so.

    • FredEX2

      Thank you Salin for reminding us that there is beauty in the world away from all this ugliness and corruption and destruction…that there is more to life than the damage a Cult does…more than ego and celebrity and narcissistic need for attention…

      I saw something circulating today on Twitter that’s become viral that I wanted to share…its a poem by a 14 year old young person and when you first read it…it sounds very different…than the second time you read it. If you start at the top…and read it down to the bottom…then do as it says…you will see how brilliant and talented this young person who wrote it is. And it left me with a question…how does Scientology explain the depth of spirit and comprehension this mere ‘wog’ child has to be able to write something so profound? We don’t need Scientology to save our Planet or mankind. We never did. We have it within us to save ourselves. And it doesn’t have to cost us thousands of dollars to discover what incredible being’s we are. In fact. It costs nothing. We are born with talents and abilities. Scientology doesn’t grant them to us. The power is in us. We ARE the Force! ❤️

      Good nite everyone.
      F5

    • Baby

      Hi Piglet.. always happy to see you .. xo baby .. f5

      • Todd Tomorrow

        Hi love!

        • Baby

          Hi sweetheart..

    • Robert Eckert

      I saw aurora once when I was young and living in Indiana. I didn’t realize how extraordinarily rare it was to have aurora visible that far south.

  • Rita G

    I guess Marty has been on double secret probation with DM this whole time? WTF?

    • Todd Tomorrow

      He misses it apparently. Left over vestages of Stockholm Syndrome?

  • MaxSpaceman

    OT.

    J & D’ing Scn really moving into the global media mainstream.

    Recently, Trump’s campaign, Trump-Pence 2016, released a campaign message coupled with a picture of the 3 oldest Trump children.

    And Steven Colbert on his CBS Television’s Late Show, a few minutes ago, around 11:45PM Eastern, said about the picture, that there were various reactions, then …

    “… and some people thought it was a Scientology poster!” Bwahahahhahahahahahahahhaha.

    • LongtimeLurker

      F5

      • daisy

        Stepford children. I have seen corpses look less embalmed. Seriously the middle one looks like a serial killer. You can bash the children when they become cheerleaders for Satan

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          …and when they are not children.

          • Todd Tomorrow

            Aren’t these the evil spawm of the t word?

            • Frodis73

              Yes they are.

            • Todd Tomorrow

              God help us.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              The adult spawn of The Donald and wife #1.

        • EnthralledObserver

          You might think the middle Trump offspring ‘looks like a serial killer’… but this candidate actually IS one…

        • Frodis73

          One of the late night guys joked Christian Bale modeled the Patrick Bateman character on that Trump kid. Lol, it was actually Tom Cruise that he used, but Trump’s kid works just as well.

        • LongtimeLurker

          He has the dead eyes of a murderer, but the happy smirk of a car repo guy.

          I can’t believe they didn’t fix that stray hair on the right(wing) guy.

          • Snippy_X

            bingo

            • LongtimeLurker

              I’d forgotten this! (In amongst all the other election insanity).

              African big game hunting in the 21st century…

              You’d just have to be a douche, you know?

            • Snippy_X

              Their sense of entitlement sickens me. There is one with an elephant also.

  • madame duran
  • Matt

    I’ve held off saying this but I think Marty is the new Jon Zegel and his blog entries are the fourth Zegel Tape. It may be that simple. He wants the church off his back so he can get on with his life and this is the price. Just my two cents worth.

    • Jimmy3

      And the church needs him to take shots at Tony Ortega and other critics rather than just having him quietly slink away? What does that accomplish? He’s not discrediting anyone. He’s just making a fool of himself and spreading entheta.

      • Matt

        If I’m right what did it do Zegel? It was the same. I guess the way the church looks at it it discredits him in the present and future and maybe causes doubt about the damage he caused in the past. If he gets left alone to raise his family (and I pray that’s the case for his sake) it’s worth it to Marty and the church. If I’m right. Just supposing. Marty can disappear like Zegel did. Where is he now? Mission accomplished.

        • Jimmy3

          That actually makes a lot of sense. You’re the only person who has made sense of this.
          I wish I could give you a giant stuffed animal prize.

          • Matt

            Thanks Jimmy! I’m a never-in/almost-in. I’ve read and looked at a lot since Going Clear! 🙂

            • Jimmy3

              Nice to meet you. I’m an ex (online course graduate ’16).

            • Matt

              Nice to meet you too!

            • Matt

              I found out about Zegel through an interview Jeffery Augustine did on Surviving Scientology Radio. I was interested and looked on YouTube. All the tapes are there. The first three are good. The fourth is his “penence” to the church.

          • What’sup

            It’s not another fucking squirrel I hope?

      • LongtimeLurker

        And if the CoS was behind the shots being taken, history tells us they would be much more slanderous and potentially damaging.

        On the other hand, maybe they’re working up to fake bomb-threats or whatever.

        But I doubt it.

        On the third hand, I had to Google Jon Zegel, so what do I know.

        • Jimmy3

          I google him when I’m bored. Just in my brain. My brain has the wrong wifi pass tho.

          • LongtimeLurker

            My brain is Bing.

            It’s embarrassing. Good for pron, tho’.

            • Todd Tomorrow

              What’s pron?

            • LongtimeLurker

              When a mummy and a daddy love each other very much, and have a friend take pictures and put them on the Internet.

            • Todd Tomorrow

              How heartwarming. No really…

            • daisy

              LOL- I am getting used to laughing every 5 min. Please don’t take that away from me too soon.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Could be worse. Could be Ask Jeeves.

      • Juicer77

        (O/T but can you shoot me the FF link to (redacted)? Thanks muchly.

  • daisy

    Is it any wonder why TV news is suffering lost viewers . Nightline usually a serious news show is covering Taylor Swifts break up ???

  • Dave Reams

    The only Mexican restaurant Dave would go in to is Los Pollos Hermanos … and not for the food!

    • Liberated

      I actually got that joke.

  • Motz55

    Tony, I am getting awfully confused here. Marty was a Scientologist for
    decades…breaks with the church, considered the most dangerous threat
    to Scientology. Steven Mango, who was bilked out of thousands before he
    wised up and got out. Now, he complains about Marty. Then there was a
    post about Monique Rathbun ending her lawsuit. There’s also Chris
    Shelton, who has posted incredible amounts of material…much of it
    revealing and insightful, but now he seems to be over reaching a bit. I am
    less interested in the travails of this movie than what is happening among critics. As
    you know, this mess can make only one person (maybe two) really happy.
    Could you please clear this up. You seem of be one of the few, who can
    present facts and can back them up. Thank you.

    • ExCult.Jan

      Tony presented Steven Mango’s video to help clear this up.

      • Todd Tomorrow

        How long were you in Jan?

        • ExCult.Jan

          5 years, in deep, ’89-’94. One of the “12 disciples”. Lived at/ ran the community “center”.

          • Todd Tomorrow

            Glad you’re out. And I’d assume much happier! Not having to worry about your “crimes”

    • Frodis73

      Trust me, we are all sort of confused. As for Tony, he doesn’t have anything else that he can reveal at this point. At least not without breaking his word to keep something ‘off the record’.

      • Todd Tomorrow

        Hi Frodis,
        Haven’t been on much. Nice to see you!

        • Frodis73

          Hey sweetie! I have been lurking as I have some stuff/drama going on in RL. Blah! Nice to see you to hon,

          • Todd Tomorrow

            Well lots of drama here, too. My sister’s house caught on fire but they made it out alive and my roommate tore his finger of playing soccer and they did micro surgery to save it! Five days in the ICU.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Oh no!

              Did your sister lose everything? Are they all okay?

            • Todd Tomorrow

              Yes, the house will be rebuilt my Mom owns it, however, my sister let he rental insurance lapse so she’ll have to start from scratch. It was an electrical fire in a house built in 1912. Thank god all the smoke detecters went off. My neice is having nightmares about the ordeal. My flat mate was told his finger could not be reattached. He went over a fence to get a ball and his wedding ring got caught and it ripped his entire finger out of his hand. Was in the hospital ICU for so long. Did you know they still use leeches to clean up wounds? The first 3 days it bleed so much he had to be given donor blood.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Good lord.

              Well, I’m glad they’re okay.

              And man, that finger thing must have hurt. Wow.

            • Todd Tomorrow

              It does but he finally got his first night sleep last night. No wonder people don’t get better in hospital they wake you up constantly. I tend to takes lots of pain meds but he had a morophine pump and oxycontin. Never play sports with your wedding ring on!

            • LongtimeLurker

              Never play sports.

              Is what I do.

            • Todd Tomorrow

              Ouch! But it has been reattached.

            • Baby

              Damn poor guy.. awwwwww…

            • Todd Tomorrow

              But he happened to get a team of micro surgeon’s who went for it. I guess one of his Dr’s was one that helped Jimmy Fallon w/ the same injury. It is called
              ‘degloving” of the finger.

            • Baby

              Wow.. and OUCH..

            • Baby

              Wow.. You have had a lot of drama.. sigh..

            • Todd Tomorrow

              But everyone is okay that I an graetrful for.

      • Motz55

        Thank you for your reply. Has Monique’s lawsuit come to an end? Is Marty making amends with Scientology, or is this subterfuge? (Sounds like a soap opera, doesn’t it?) It does seem like a faith in a death throw, but there seems to be rather petty skirmishes between critics. Are they losing sight of the big picture?

        • Todd Tomorrow

          No more lawsuiy period. They dropped the ball and we are all curious so curious. Her lawyers who worked very hard were never paid a cent and worked their behinds off.

          • Motz55

            This is bizarre. The whole premise is Monique was never a Scientologist, faced enormous harassment. I always felt she was a gutsy woman. Had she won and DM forced to testify or be deposed, it could have sent this entire group of twisted wackos south. I hope critics get over their squabbles and get on with it. Marty does seem to be a complicated fellow though. Thanks for your response.

            • Todd Tomorrow

              It was a very sad turn of events for all of us here when she walked away.

            • Motz55

              Sorry to ask another question, but why do you think she did?

            • Juicer77

              There are so many theories. No one really knows.

            • cdub

              Make up a theory of your own. You’d be in good company. See Jefferson Hawkins theory at the top of the post chain when you sort for best. Translated, he says Rathbun went back to Scientology and by trashing the rest of us he is going through a Scientology-sanctioned process to become a member in good standing again.

            • Juicer77

              I will reread it. I didn’t quite get that message but it’s possible. Although if Rathbun thinks he can get back into the Co$ he will find he is sadly mistaken. Any overtures from Mismanage are lures to get him into a trap. Better to walk away.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Bearing in mind my Scientology expertise is below the median on this forum, I think it smells of A to Es.

              But that doesn’t mean it is.

              It also smells of simple self-denial, confusion, and blame-throwing.

              And maybe elderberries.

            • Juicer77

              And unicorn farts! XD

            • “elderberries” LOL – what the fuck is that 🙂

            • LongtimeLurker
            • LongtimeLurker

              No, but seriously. They’re like…blueberries? You make wine out of them.

              Well, not you.

              Or me.

              But people.

            • daisy

              Small tiny berries that grow on bushes in clusters like grapes. They are about half the size of blueberries but more tasty. My mom used to make them into pie.

            • Todd Tomorrow

              Really, I can’t imagine since all the ‘entheta” that proves it;s a sham. Only if he’s being blackmailed about some horrid thing for bm when he was his SS officer.

            • Juicer77

              More sad for those who have suffered similar harassment, and were hoping for some justice – in any form!

        • Frodis73

          Yes, the lawsuit was dropped when they were winning, That is what kickstarted things at Marty’s.
          http://tonyortega.org/2016/04/28/monique-rathbun-blames-former-attorneys-as-she-plans-to-drop-lawsuit/

    • LongtimeLurker

      Things went pear-shaped after the heir to the throne of Austria-Hungary, Franz Ferdinand, was assassinated in Sarajevo, Bosnia-Herzegovina…

      No…hang on…

      I just have to check my notes.

      • Juicer77

        All because of a wrong turn!

      • OOkpik

        I’m lovin’ having you back here.

      • Todd Tomorrow

        Cliff notes?

        • LongtimeLurker

          Cult Notes.

          • Gertrudis

            LtL, curious to know what happened with the joey your Mom cared for.
            Did it grow up and bounce away?

            • LongtimeLurker

              That was the plan. It didn’t work out (through no one’s fault).

              I’ll spare you the details.

            • Gertrudis

              I’m so sorry to hear that. Thank you for responding.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Yeah. I’ve actually got a photo of the little guy somewhere, following dad around the backyard.

              I should find that.

            • Gertrudis

              Aww, I bet that’s cute.

              It would be fun to see it.

    • Juicer77

      Welcome, Motz. There is always speculation that when ex’s criticize each other, it makes the Co$ happy. I’m just glad they now have the freedom to say what they really think. There will always multiple viewpoints, thank goodness.
      Re: Chris Shelton, most of his work is excellent. He is exploring other areas/topics that interest him, which he is certainly entitled to do. We have the freedom to pick and choose which of his projects to watch or listen to.

      • Dave Reams

        Excellent point Juicer! They’ve crossed the bridge of total freedom to say whatever they want without being thrown in the hole, gang bang sec checked, declared and disconnected, and/or beaten to a bloody pulp by Dave Miscavige.

    • Baby

      Hi Motz.. I just answered you on Steve’s video.. ( My opinion) thanks..

  • Todd Tomorrow

    Thanks Steve Mongo.

  • Juicer77

    Perhaps Mr. Rathbun has forgotten that Theroux has hours and hours of B-roll footage (not used in the movie) of the planning and filming of the Hole scene. It’s smart of Theroux to make no comment. The film will stand on its own.

  • Xenu is my Homeboy

    OT: Even more from Bryan Seymour (refresh if cannot see link):

    https://au.tv.yahoo.com/the-daily-edition/video/watch/32556383/scientology-on-our-shores/#page1

  • Tony Ortega

    Getting pretty tired of the speculation about the Rathbun marriage. There’s zero evidence at this point that the Rathbuns aren’t simply enjoying their return to South Texas and the raising of their son.

    Marty’s blog posts may be puzzling, but at this point there’s no reason to speculate about his relationship with his wife, or any reason to believe that she doesn’t support what he’s doing.

    Until some evidence to the contrary shows up, leave Mosey out of it.

    • Todd Tomorrow

      Am I allowed to wonder if they were somehow threatened by the cult?

      • Robert Eckert

        I think we can take that as a given.

    • Dave Reams

      In other words, mosey along to another topic! : ) Speaking of marriages, how’s that Shelley Miscavige doin’ these days?

      • Todd Tomorrow

        He snuggles with cruise.

      • noseinabk

        Dave is quite devoted to Shelly as you can see by his still wearing his wedding ring.
        Btw Shelly, it’s the gold one.

        • Dave Reams

          Dave and Tom prefer to think of the ring as a rib.

        • Dave Reams

          I believe that Dave and Tom think of the ring as a ribbed tickler (a.k.a. a digital to analog converter)

          This is untrue with much love.

    • Bea

      I guess this is in reaction to the comment I just made and has been deleted. Yes, the state of their marriage is speculation – on the other hand Marty is totally out of control and is in my opinion (which I stated it was!) a person whose behaviour both recently and in the past is consistent with that of my former husband who was violent and abusive. The red flags are there! Deleting my comment doesn’t make them any less real.

      Edit: for me the biggest red flag is this from Marty’s blog (assuming he is being truthful here and not just a DM stooge): “Viewing it as objectively as possible I see the final edit containing quite a bit of me projecting my own behavior on Miscavige. That my own personality would rub off on the principle actor is not surprising given the extraordinary amount of hours Theroux and Dower had him spend with me over a year-long period.” – which is absolutely no excuse for violence!

      • I for one share your concern, but i doubt my own evaluation when using the internet as a medium!

        • Bea

          Point taken – but I wasn’t solely using the internet as a basis for my evaluation.

          • Personal experiences is highly relevant, if that’s what you mean, and basically why most is here. And trust me…I have been 2 Bytes away from sending Tony a mail about my own concerns, but cooled down after updating myself – Using the internet! All good 🙂

            • Bea

              🙂 – my post was out of concern for Mosey! I based my assumptions on interviews Marty has given (both random ones and more in-depth ones such as the Panorama programmes when he was in and when he was out of the cult), read his blog, read the legal documents relating to the recently dropped case and linked that both to my personal experience and books I have read in trying to understand why I couldn’t leave.

            • Welcome to the Club 🙂

      • Juicer77

        Your post was meant in kindness. Monique Rathbun is an adult, and like you is capable of extricating herself from a situation if she wants to. Anything we say is speculation, really. And I’m guilty, too.

        • Bea

          Yes, she is an adult – however – as stated in the deleted post, my concern was for her and more importantly for her son.

          • Juicer77

            I share similar concerns.

          • Robert Eckert

            We don’t see as much of her on the Net as we do of Marty (she lacks the attention-seeking gene, itself a good sign) but what we did see, her interaction with a deer in the garden and especially with a stalker at the door (Anna who was so concerrrrrnnned), she is better able than most adults to take care of herself.

    • OOkpik

      Thank you, thank you, thank you!

    • EnthralledObserver

      Yeah, people… Marty is fair game, but Mosey isn’t!

      😉

      • I think we all, are Fair Game… now that you put it like that 🙂

    • Todd Tomorrow

      Does anyone know is she’s the front runner?

      • Robert Eckert

        She already won re-election, and is not up again until 2018. The Trump U investigation and dubiously-timed campaign contribution were in 2013, for the 2014 re-election bid.

  • Commodore H. McCringleberry

    Been to busy to join in today, but that gave me the chance to mull this over:

    Regardless of the content of his recent writings and any second or third hand analysis and theorizing- the timing of his post (and the one directly before) is anomalous. With the Ruthless review, it comes after any reasonable time frame in which that book might be considered “news”. With his thoughts on the Theroux movie, its widest release to date is just now forthcoming, but his active participation has long since passed- as has any new developments which might have altered his opinion of that production.

    This is not my opinion. This is empirical fact in both cases. Marty has shown himself to be both too engaged with the subject and too intellectually active for these two topics to have escaped his notice until now. In the case of the movie, there is also evidence that he was, if not totally pleased, then at least content enough not to disavow or condemn the production at the time the offenses occurred. Starting from there, it is certainly plausible to question his motivation and not evidence of conspiracy, or the oft-mentioned “cult” mentality of people that do not roundly agree with him.

    I have my own theory going, but for the sake of fairness and intellectual honesty, I’m going to try and tear it apart a few more times before I put it out there.

    • Juicer77

      Looking forward to hearing it when you are ready.

  • AmoVolare

    Steve Mongo: beautiful job! You’r wonderful. Thanks

  • chukicita

    Thank you, Steven Mango, for taking the time to shed some light.

    It sounds like Marty liked the idea of having control. But then didn’t like it when others (perhaps more qualified) exerted some of their own. And then, much later, decided it was okay to revise how things happened.

    This doesn’t sound like someone who is mentally healthy.

    • Juicer77

      Sounds like a narcissistic control freak to me.

      • chukicita

        Isn’t that the EP of Scientology?

  • Leslie Stipe

    I think Marty ate the brown M&M’s and washed it down with too much Kool-Aid!

  • Scream Nevermore

    Marty needs help. Unfortunately, he appears to have gone to the wrong people for it.

  • Nada Jurisich-Fontana

    Wow; I miss a couple of days of the Underground Bunker and come back to this?! I love Jeff Hawkins’ comment. Steve Mango, your video is great- thanks for another inside peek. Marty could be doing A-E, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Tommy Davis reached out to him and acted as an intermediary for DM. My guess is there is a prize of a huge payoff (settlement) that Scientology is obscuring from lawyers, etc. for Marty’s secure receipt after he fulfills a few conditions. I think he understands that after such damage over the past few years, even after A-E, Marty would never be welcomed back, but how much is it worth to Scn to just shut him up? I’m not sure how complicated it would be to illegally obscure a settlement in order to cut out all his lawyers, but I trust Scn has a way. There still is the possibility that there is a real crime Marty is hiding about himself and DM is holding that over his head threatening to expose. I guess that’s less likely because they probably would have pulled it out before this year ( unless it’s a recent crime that could put him in jail).
    I am going to watch closely and hope the truth comes out soon. I notice Mike R is really quiet. I wish he would chime in😏

  • Kim O’Brien

    Longtime Lurker …it is great to have you back here !!!!!!!

  • custard ganet

    So whats goin on with Marty? has he regoined the The Church or what? And when the hell is this film going to released?

  • Tony Nelson

    Maybe someone has already said this but Marty’s recent change reminds me of Jon Zegel’s 4th tape. Jon basically retracted all he said in his previous three tapes to get Scientology off his back and just walk away from Scientology. I wonder if this is what Marty is doing, he may not want to fight Scientology anymore. It would be understandable, but it is disappointing to see the recent changes in Marty.

  • KNMF

    this isn’t the same marty rathbun that made that hilarious “car wash” video and posted it on the internet, is it?

  • Phatpharm

    If I was The Rathburns’ lawyers, I would definitely be investing the Rathburns accounts. As a non-Scientologist watcher of this site, this complete 180 degree turn from this man says they got an under the table settlement. I feel bad for his wife. I would hope that after all this “religion” did to her she wouldn’t become involved with them. The only other reason would be that DM has something to blackmail MR.

  • KOT

    Understanding psychology, Marty’s defensive paranoia through amygdala would be triggered by Louis method of interviewing by actively not empathazing to understand his point.. That would reveal of course the personality trait of Marty. It is with a certain reason that he was once in Scientology at one of the highest ranking position. Without judging, I believe that you have to be psychologically careful and atuned not to push people over board. You can reveal certain things, but you can lose people’s trust in you which would create paranoid and harmful defensive reactions.. which leads to all kinds of manipulation from all sides.

    Louis’s method is totally honorable, but you cannot pretend that there is this risk by acting naive. You can be an enabler without intention. But most of manipulation is justly done my willing or unwilling enablers used by bad-intentioned organisations or groups of people..

  • Perhaps Marty Rathbun is deluded enough to somehow believe that David Miscavige will take him back and restore him to the privileged position of power and status he once occupied within Scientology or use him as a consultant?

    Or could it be that Rathbun found a way to work things out with Miscavige in some sort of settlement that benefited him personally and that he is now serving COB?.

    Maybe it’s just Rathbun’s ego and vanity? That is, he doesn’t like the final cut of Theroux’s film because he now concludes that it wasn’t flattering enough and/or raised troubling questions about his complicity in dirty tricks done by Scientology.

    Whatever the case may be it appears that Marty Rathbun is for Marty Rathbun. And that despite his supposed post-Scientology reformation Rathbun remains nothing if not an unapologetic pragmatist relentlessly focused on his own self interests. And so Marty Rathbun plays on whatever side he sees as benefitting him the most at any given time until he concludes it’s been played out.

  • vommarlowe

    OK, so, I don’t know much about internal CoS, but I do know about the aspects of learning, behaviorism, emotions, psychology (the real stuff), and torture.

    I think Marty’s story makes solid sense, in a very predictable way, if looked at from the lens of an extended torture victim who experienced significant amounts of both positive and negative punishment. Positive punishment means: do something bad, we punish you by doing something to you, like smacking you. Negative punishment means: do something bad, we punish you by taking something away, like no more food for you. There is also positive reward: so something good, get a cookie and negative reward: do something good, we stop electroshocking you.

    I learned how these were scientifically proved to break animals into un-fixable broken-ness (versus fixable brokenness) from Bob Bailey. For those who don’t know, Bob Bailey was a big dog in behaviorism research, back in the day, and was witness to various government tests that wouldn’t necessarily be allowed today. He spoke about the nature of helping animals to learn to do various ‘impossible’ behaviors, such as cats willinglying lying down in a grass spot, surrounding by jumping crickets. He stated that the surest way to permanently break an animal was to use the positive and negative punishment without any level of predictability.

    When you punish someone, when you hurt them, animal or human, the victim tries desperately to figure out what they did ‘wrong’, not just on a rational level, but on an instinctive one. They may link accurately, “I forgot to do my homework!” or “Dad’s mad when he smells of bourbon and chanel #5” or, unfortunately and inevitably, inaccurately, “Dad’s mad when we’re in the living room. Living rooms are BAD”. This is why PTSD sufferers often have deeply random triggers, such as, being complimented on their sweater, a pencil being dropped, the smell of Ivory dish soap, as well as more ‘sensible’ links like the sound of planes overhead, the noise of gunshots, someone red faced and shouting.

    When you have a predictable punisher, even someone who is wildly OTT, this does not really cause insanity most of the time. If your dog gets smacked every. single. time. he looks at a bird, he may choose to stop looking at birds or will look at birds only when he’s willing to be smacked, but is probably not going to shake uncontrollably and pee himself all the time. Maybe, but probably not.

    OTH, if your dog gets smacked, regardless of what he’s doing, based on a truly random schedule (such as an owner’s mood swings or a random number generator), he’ll basically go crazy trying to figure out what he did wrong and begin to superstitiously believe things, even if it’s not every single time, because UNRELIABLE rewards and punishers are the most effective. I don’t have time to explain this, but Vegas is the textbook example–old dudes sit at slot machines because MAYBE they’ll get the jackpot, even though odds are against it. The old dudes get rewarded JUST ENOUGH to keep ’em playing.

    Ok, so what if, instead of being rewarded for slot machines or punished for looking at birds or barking at squirrels, instead we started having truly random superstitious guesses at what’s causing these terrible things to happen or, even more powerfully, to STOP happening? Then you get completely nutbar reactions. If the dog is randomly shocked whenever, wherever, you’ll get a dog who starts thinking that looking at a tree is the problem, or that it’s about men wearing blue baseball caps, or it’s a bad idea to pee squatting or to sniff, and that it’s only safe when you’re doing equally randomly things, like, say, looking at a woman wearing a sweater, or standing on three legs.

    Except that now you’re crazy, right, and the emotional reactions have begun happening ON THEIR OWN, because that’s how classical conditioning and anxiety disorders WORK. If every time you see a train and get shocked, pretty soon you’ll start having freakout biological reactions to trains, no shock needed, and you’re basically shocking YOURSELF. So, you start avoiding trains like hell.

    But what if you’ve been randomly shocked, and even you yourself don’t know what will set off your internal shock reaction? You become twitchy and you try things, all kinds of things, to get the freakout feeling to stop.

    And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t, but these things are now happening randomly.

    Which makes you MORE crazy trying to avoid them!

    It becomes a downward spiral where there are no rules of safety, no ways to ‘make it stop’, no ways to be OK, and the crazy gets worse and worse, while you try weirder and weirder things in an attempt to get the shocks in your head to stop fucking with you.

    This would be bad enough, and it’s basically why PTSD is so fucking hard to treat. There’s no way to stop a man from hearing ALL plane noises, ever again, or avoid seeing ALL khaki uniforms, or whatever, right? PTSD sufferers get retriggered even while trying to work through their trauma.

    BUT, let’s take a random soldier who’s been fucked up by war, and now add him into a cult with a random psychotic who tortures people, uses ‘stress positions’, social isolation, sleep dep, food dep, mind games, to the mess.

    YIKES.

    Worse, the psycho makes the victims torture EACH OTHER, so they are now GENUINELY complicit in the crimes. It’s no longer just vague ideas that haunt a person, such as, “I’m a terrible man because I was too hard on my kids, maybe kinda, I don’t know” but instead, “I’m a terrible man because I kicked A and I abused B I assaulted C and I shoved D’s head under the water.”

    Uh-oh, now you’ve got MORE to overcome.

    Let’s get this sad, crazy, troubled PTSD sufferer out of the war zone and plop ‘im in sanity town.

    He works on his shit, he gets his act together, he begins to slowly unravel his psyche, but as he does this, weird and utterly random punishments of an extreme (and extremely triggering) nature start to happen. His loved ones are threatened. He’s jailed. He has weird talks with people and these talks go in directions he doesn’t expect. At the same time, the world is not without some rewards, it’s just that the rewards are really confusing. People praise him when he talks about ‘bad’ things he did, but other people get mad about this.

    If you add in really weird and further random punishment/reward from people who have his detailed psych file and are GENUINELY OUT TO GET HIM….

    And you’re going to wind up with a person who is a lot like the dogs the government randomly shocked back in the day. Bailey said the dogs were so utterly unable to predict what would cause punishment, even after the punishment stopped, that the no longer could notice their behavior would predict GOOD things, such as sit when I say sit and you get a cookie. When an animal cannot control the world around them, they begin sparking further, and it’s “Lady in orange sweater = PANIC STATIONS” and ‘man in red sweater = things are OK maybe’ and then ‘but now man has turned LEFT and we’re at PANIC STATIONS again!!!’ and it just….

    It just gets weirder and crazier as the animal flails about, trying to beat a way toward some kind of predictability.

    According to Bailey, once the animal’s mind had been broken sufficiently, it was not possible to put it back together. This is a guy who can get cats to sit there while crickets jump on them. CATS. I mean…. CATS. When he says he can’t get a dog to stop shitting itself in genuine terror if X has happened, I believe him. I have also seen this.

    It seems to me that Marty was tortured, got out, made a significant break for sanity, and then came under tremendous attack again. It’s no wonder that he’s basically cracked under the strain and is doing utterly weird and random things. He’s almost certainly gotten heavily conditioned, in his backbrain, that ‘Pleasing DM is the only way to survive’ or ‘Making DM less mad is how to keep my family safe’ and so he may be trying to do that.

    I realize I’m now comparing dogs who were randomly electroshocked in the 40s to someone who is wandering around one of the richest countries in the freeworld, but…. The Hole seems like pretty classic long term torture to me.

    • Sine qua non

      Interesting points, reasonable analysis. I’ll just say this: anyone who’s been in the Hole, from what I’ve read, was tortured and then some, so you get what you got.

  • Fundamentalist Daleks

    Fascinating film. Marty should realize it’s just giving him a platform and he bungled it a bit. Regardless, wasn’t it amazing seeing how much delight he took in bullbaiting TRs.

  • Bee Bee

    “In the case of Theroux’s film, Rathbun says that the movie’s key scene recreating what it was like to be in Scientology’s notorious “Hole” was unfair to David Miscavige.”

    I just watched the movie last night (bootleg) and Rathbun was STANDING THERE LOOKING ON when the Miscavige/Hole scene was shot, and yes, he was looking on approvingly. If it was wrong, he had ample opportunity to speak up as it was being shot.

  • Miss momma

    Considering Marty was under severe stress in a cult that helped train him to continually think in a paranoid way … I think that this side of his mentality – the damage that COS has inflicted is revealed in how Marty doesn’t seem to be able to trust others , and he does seem suspicious like Louis is out to humiliate him . Personally, I applaud anyone for having the strength to fight an entity that encourages these traits.
    But for me , I still felt sympathy that it was very apparent that Marty had been in the same pattern of anger , suspicion, paranoia and lashing out because it is the (mind control) behavior that the COS encouraged in him.
    I think that Marty has a struggle and on one hand is proud of some of his accomplishments in Cos, but on the other hand will never get the respect that he seems to still want from them for being a purist or being so comitted .
    I just don’t think after years and years of the cos encouraging Marty to blame himself and then look at others with an type of paranoia , that suddenly he isn’t going to exhibit some of those behaviors when He is being triggered through recreating events / talking about details / and recreating the environment.
    They are recreating an environment where Marty both abused and was abused , and then wondering why he has mixed feelings about the movie ?
    I think it’s pretty easy to “get” it , if one sees him as a conflicted person .. not all savior and not all saved .

  • Dyan Shane

    My son worked on the film as a gaffer in Las Vegas. He said he spent a total of 3 weeks off and on there doing so. He said Marty was really nice to the crew and he enjoyed working with him.