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Moscow orders banning of Scientology in ongoing dispute, church vows to appeal

SciMoscow5

 
We asked our man in Europe, British journalist Jonny Jacobsen, to make some sense of the news coming out of Russia today, where the government has repeatedly tried to ban or dissolve Scientology. But if anything, Scientology is dying less slowly in Russia than it is arguably anywhere in the world, and the government’s tactics may have something to do with it. What’s the latest, Jonny?


A Moscow city court on Monday banned Scientology’s centre in the capital, granting a request from the justice ministry. A statement at the ministry’s website said officials had acted after “gross and repeated violation” of federal laws.

Scientology has already announced it will appeal the decision to the Federal Supreme Court, the Ria Novosti news agency reported later Monday.

Judge Mikhail Kazakov agreed with the case advanced by the ministry, which had argued that the activities of the Church of Scientology Moscow did not comply with federal laws on freedom of religion, said the Ria Novosti agency. He order Scientology’s Moscow centre to wind itself up within six months.

Officials first moved to shut down Scientology in 2014 after “gross and repeated violations” of Russian federal laws, said a justice ministry statement.

While it suspended its action on October 22 last year when Scientology went to court to contest a ruling saying it had failed to properly register as a church, a Moscow appeal court finally rejected Scientology’s case in a ruling last month.

Justice ministry lawyers said that Scientology had registered the word “Scientology” as a trademark, Ria Novosti reported. It said a Scientology organisation in the United States, the Religious Technology Center, held the rights.

The front page of the RTC website specifically states that it holds the Dianetics and Scientology trademarks. Chairman of the board of the RTC is David Miscavige, Scientology’s leader.

In court on Monday, ministry lawyers argued that by registering this trademark Scientology had violated Russian laws on freedom of conscience and religion. Shutting down Scientology in Moscow did not violate religious freedom, as the ministry was simply applying consumer protection laws, said a ministry spokesman.

A lawyer for the Church of Scientology denounced the ministry’s action against it as anti-religious and an abuse of rights, Ria Novosti reported.

There was nothing unusual in religious books being protected by copyright, the lawyer argued: it was a way of protecting these texts from distortions introduced by heretics.

“This is the only Church of Scientology in Russia,” the lawyer added. If it was shut down, Scientologists in Russia would not be able to practise their faith, “…because the priest will not be protected by the secrecy of confession.”

The lawyer pointed that the European Court of Human Rights had already ruled in favour of Scientology in their dispute with the justice ministry, which had nevertheless refused to accept Scientology’s application to register as a church, Ria Novosti reported.

— Jonny Jacobsen

 
——————–

BOOK NOTES
3D-Unbreakable

We didn’t get a chance to include photos in our book, so we’ve posted them at a dedicated page. Reader Sookie put together a complete index and we’re hosting it here on the website. Copies of the paperback version of ‘The Unbreakable Miss Lovely’ are on sale at Amazon. The Kindle edition is also available, and shipping instantly.

Our book tour is concluded for now. (But you can re-experience it through this nifty interactive map!) We’ll let you know about future appearances. Previous events: Santa Barbara (5/16), Hollywood (5/17), Orange County (5/17), San Diego (5/20), San Francisco (5/22), New York (6/11), Chicago (6/20), Toronto (6/22), Clearwater (6/28), Washington DC (7/12), Hartford (7/14), Denver (7/17), Dallas (7/20), Houston (7/22), San Antonio (7/24), Austin (7/25), Paris (7/29), London (8/4), Boston (8/24), Phoenix (9/15), Cleveland (9/23), Minneapolis (9/24), Portland (9/27), Seattle (9/28), Vancouver BC (9/29), Sydney (10/23), Melbourne (10/25), Adelaide (10/28), Perth (10/30)

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on November 23, 2015 at 17:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of LA attorney and former church member Vance Woodward

UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists

GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice

SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer
The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill
The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

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  • flyonthewall

    first comment!

  • flyonthewall

    1st heart recommend! haha!

  • flyonthewall

    i guess i should read the article now…

    • SciWatcher

      This made me laugh out loud

  • flyonthewall

    whoever posts next is a poopyhead

  • i’m a poopyhead i guess…..come sit next to me fly…..

    • flyonthewall

      yup

    • flyonthewall

      any idea how many booked for Howdycon so far?

      • Rasha

        Yeah, we need a daily-ish update for that!

        Edit: Also, how many logos have been submitted!

        • Zeruel (Sebastian)

          Seconded.

        • no, no daily updates!!! perhaps a weekly or bi-weekly reminder/update? i mean i’d get sick of hearing about it if i saw a post about it every day!!!

          • Rasha

            ^_^ (huggles)

      • nope, no idea….i was gonna add a RSVP page but i’ve been working on a couple other projects first…..i’ll add that within the week, i’m in a lot of pain today and am good for naught (more so than usual! ;)….i’ll have it so people can say publicly if they’re coming (in the comments) or they can email in (if they want it to be a surprise, etc)…..a head count is good to know…..

        • flyonthewall

          oh I’m sorry, get well soon. I reserved a rm today for what it’s worth. We’ll see closer to the date if we can get vaca/babysitting etc though. Currently, the intention is to be there.

          eta – great job on the website btw, thnx for all your hard work

          • Hopefully it’s enough time in advance to get vacay time/babysitter/etc!! Did you request all the furniture be removed from your room? 😉 I think someone (Can’t remember who now) is bringing their kids? If there’s chirruns there, there’s plenty of kids friendly things to do. Schools have field trips to the Rock Hall, so they must deem it okay for kids. The science museum is VERY interactive for kids. Give the kids $10 each and let ’em run loose in the candy store around from the Radisson 🙂 Public Square’s makeover will be done by June next year and they will have splash areas for kids to play in. If Eddie doesn’t have to work that Saturday (I’m going to make him take that day off so no he will NOT be working that Saturday) I’m gonna put him in charge of a field trip to the Cleveland Zoo. There’s also a Children’s Museum in the area of the other museums. If there’s going to be a # of kids there I can add a section of kids friendly options. 🙂

            • flyonthewall

              that does sound pretty good for the kids, you should be a salesperson!

              eta – we would have to get a separate room for them though and that would dbl the expense. Will have to think about it

            • i don’t think i’d be a good salesperson….i’d end up giving away what i was suppose to sell! 🙂 but i don’t see why people couldn’t bring their chirruns if they wanted too….just like with the wide variety of things for adults, there’s a wide of variety of things for kids…..the science museum has some nasa stuff in it too….

              i didn’t list the cleveland zoo on the options cuz it’s about 20 minutes away and you can be there all day…..i know i would be 🙂 that’s one of my ‘happy places’…..it’s like $12 (for adults, i think kids are like $8) and you can even bring in your own food and drinks! though their food is NOT high priced…..we always bring in water/gatorade….LOVE the zoo!!! shit, i should put eddie on something else and i’ll go on the zoo expedition 😉

            • Rasha

              You guys are gonna have so much fun! I do miss the Zoo. And the museum, but it’s been so long….

            • flyonthewall

              You need to come down to STL. We have a world class zoo and it’s totally FREE to get in!

        • Kestrel

          Hope you start feeling better soon. As soon as I have my ducks in a row, I’ll be making my reservations.

  • YEAH RUSSIA!!!!!! GO RUSSIA!!!! Damn straight!! What’s a religion doing with COPYRIGHTS? That’s a business!

  • Zeruel (Sebastian)

    This is sort of how I feel about this: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilVersusEvil

  • Rasha

    …someone needs to word clear “7 am”… just sayin’….. 😛

    • Tony Ortega

      There was a story up at 7 am today. What are you saying?

      • Rasha

        Just messing with ya – 2nd post and all… . ^_^ I’ll go sit down now.

        • Baby

          Step away from Bossman.. I’ve heard that tone before.

  • Ben Franklin

    No doubt the Church of Scientology will scream and shout unfairness and discrimination, and all that, but, at the end of the day the Russian government will do whatever it wants to do and there is absolutely not much the church can do about it. Russia is not the United States.

    • Tony Ortega

      The situation is the opposite. This kind of heavy-handed treatment is part of the reason Scientology is dying less slowly there. This will probably only boost interest in it.

      • Zeruel (Sebastian)

        Given the heavy tilt that the Russian government and media have taken towards the Russian Orthodox Church in recent years at the expense of other religions, you’d think Scientology would be an easy target.

      • Ben Franklin

        I agree that the heavy handedness may make Scientology more appealing to some especially the younger generation, but I also believe that in the long term it makes it difficult for Scientology to thrive and grow as a main stream religion in Russia. The harder Russia clamps down on Scientologists, the more life becomes difficult for Scientologists in Russia. If Russia were to completely ban Scientology and make it a crime to be a Scientologist in the same way they ban other religions in Saudi Arabia, I don’t think Scientology would survive or even grow

        • Tony Ortega

          Scientology will never be a “mainstream religion” anywhere in the world. You’re talking nonsense.

          • Ben Franklin

            I don’t believe they will, but it is what they are striving for. By “mainstream religion” I meant a religion that is legally recognized by courts and governments just like any other of the main religions. (i.e Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, etc)

          • Mockingbird

            Scientology a mainstream religion ? Can I have cyanide please.

        • Zeruel (Sebastian)

          Remember Ukraine. When the Ukrainians overthrew their corrupt leader in favor of more democratic (and pro-Western) leadership, Russia annexed their peninsula and turned their eastern border into a war zone to break the new government and get the country back in line. They tried to exploit ethnic divisions between west and east (where the Russian-speakers are) to do this. But instead of breaking Ukraine, it only strengthened their resolve and made them more opposed to indirect Russian rule. Not even the Russian-speakers want anything to do with what Russia did. Same thing can happen if Russia moves against Scientology, only this time there would be a more undesirable result.

          • Ben Franklin

            There is a limit to “strengthened resolve”, just keep that in mind.

        • OOkpik

          Regardless of the outcome it’s still an irresistible opportunity for CofS to suck money out of dupes under the banner of religious persicution.

        • Kim O’Brien

          i think it is scientology , that keeps scientology from growing . Cuz …ya know …they suck

      • Mockingbird

        What options will they have if the Russian government says you are dissolved with no more appeals ?

  • BarryObama2014

    I am still shocked that there is an Idle Org in Russia, Russians are wary of any new religions especially ones from the U.S.

    • Ben Franklin

      One of the reasons for the ruling is based on the fact it is a US trademarked organization. Just when you thought that the cold war may be all over

      • ERT

        honestly the world is kind of tired of all these garbage cults that comes from the USA.

        • Supper Powers

          Yeah, I’m more interested in the European ones.

          • ERT

            The European ones are definitely more cool. they have all these crypto fascist organizations like the order of nine angles.

            • Supper Powers

              Sweet. Take me to your leader.

            • truth will set u free

              ONA is a reincarnation of the traditional Satanists. Not cool but rather twisted. . But hey LRon would be right at home with their brand of cool. They take a page from Crowley’s OTO.

            • ERT

              Yea still nobody beats David Myatt/ Anton Long evilness. the guys is now old and retired . Hubbard lost his sanity while Myatt didn’t.

  • PickAnotherID

    In Hernandez vs $cientology our own Supreme Court said $cientology was a business, and not entitled to tax exempt status. Only the IRS decided to ignore SCOTUS and granted the tax exemption anyway to make 2,400+ lawsuits go away. Somehow I don’t see $cientology getting away with that in Russia.

  • Observer

    “…because the priest will not be protected by the secrecy of confession.”

    Silly me–all this time I thought the secrecy of the confessional was to protect the penitent.

    • PickAnotherID

      Nothing secret about a $cientology “confessional” if you leave and become an SP.

    • Sherbet

      My God, as a Catholic, am I sick of that scientology analogy, even when they get it right.

    • One Human

      An amazing tell in that indeed.

  • Rasha

    FIRST COMME– nvm.

  • But long term it isn’t likely to have any impact. The Church of Scientology won’t have much if any money in Russia, and the church is primarily about money.

    Nor does a Russian court have any impact on American courts.

    • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

      I still abide by the domino theory.

      • It’s another snowball added to the avalanche. But a single 1 kilogram snowball isn’t going to add much to the kilotonnes already rolling downhill.

        But hey, I’m not complaining. Every little bit counts.

  • Rasha

    24 recommends, vs 22 comments….now THAT’S a ratio of awesome.

  • flyonthewall

    Tony – how about an editorial opinion on this development? Maybe in a post script to the article?

    • Tony Ortega

      I gave a small bit of analysis in my intro. This heavy-handed crap only boosts Scientology in Russia.

      • flyonthewall

        ahh i c, glossed over that bit. Thnx

      • Zeruel (Sebastian)

        Just like they did in the Ukraine crisis, Russia’s bluster and machismo has only ended up countering its interests.

        • flyonthewall

          hehe, you said machismo

      • daisy

        I see by the comments all seem happy, but you are the opposite. Why are the Russians drawn to scientology? Is it because they are so repressed and this is anti-govt ? Does the religion appeal because it is USA based, the appeal for all things western ? I am confused as to why this is bad.

        • Zeruel (Sebastian)

          Ever since Putin’s re-election as president in 2012, the government has been taking an ultraconservative line with heavy emphasis on the Russian Orthodox religion. Russia acting against Scientology is most likely not just because it’s a cult, but because it can score easy propaganda points.

          • daisy

            That makes sense thank you.

          • flyonthewall

            Don’t forget that they are an American organization with a history of govt infiltration and a propensity for intelligence gathering (PC folders). I can totally understand why Russia would be suspicious of them. For the record, I don’t think the way they are going about dismantling them is very wise.

      • Mockingbird

        What can they do if they lose every appeal ? At some point they will be banned.

        • Jgg2012

          No, Russia adheres to a European Treaty which has a Court if Strasbourg that, time and again, sides with religion (but not with fraudsters). It would be like fighting ISIS by outlawing Islam (rather than prosecuting people who conspire to commit murder, which arguably isn’t even Islamic, but, even if it were, it cannot be tolerated and the Strasbourg Court would not protect it).

          • Mockingbird

            But the US violates treaties, tortures and commits murder and abuses daily with impunity . Couldn’t Russia do the same ?

            • Jgg2012

              Yes, except that the European Court cannot overrule the US. The UN could condemn us, but it has no enforcement power, except in the Security Council, where the US has veto power. For the US, you would have to go through the US court system, where acts are sometimes ruled unconstitutional (this has come up with Guantanamo, the Patriot Act, etc.)

          • Ben Franklin

            Bottom line, European Treaty cannot make or stop Russian courts or the Russian government from doing anything they want to do. If they want to ban Scientology in Russia for being a US trademarked organization there is not much any outside organization or entity can do to stop it.

  • Saweeet! 2 stories in one day. Thanks Tony!

  • ERT

    Coming soon a jones town sci fi style in the hole?

    • Sherbet

      Nah, probably not.

  • 9001

    Russia doing something to fight cults at the moment, against $cientology and !SIS…Well done Russia!

    • Zeruel (Sebastian)

      While setting up a Russian Orthodox pseudo-theocracy back home. Booooo…

      • 9001

        2 out of 3 isn’t bad though.

        • Zeruel (Sebastian)

          I’m just saying that Moscow, being corrupt and authoritarian and sort of turning into Pat Robertson’s wet dream, are not going after Scientology and ISIS out of the goodness of their hearts.

          • 9001

            Like any govt they’re acting in their own interests. Don’t know a lot about Russia’s internal politics but glad they’re acting against all cults.

            • ze moo

              They are not acting against all cults. Just $cientology in Moscow at the moment. There a plenty of flying saucer and bigfoot seeking nutjobs in Russia.

            • 9001

              Hey ze moo that’s true. I should have said acting against some destructive cults like $ci in Moscow and ISIS in Syria.

  • flyonthewall

    Rinder had a small comment concerning this development in the comments section of his blog. No worries clams, you can always go to Leningrad or elsewhere to get hypnotized and ripped off. –

    “Mike Rinder saysNovember 23, 2015 at 1:37 pm

    Well, this is a ruling that effects Moscow. Not St Petersburg or the rest of Russia…”

    http://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-running-around-in-circles-program/

  • Observer

    So the doctor is now focusing on Mr. Observer’s gall bladder and took a bunch more blood. Still nothing about the ultrasound, which displeased him (the doctor), and he’s going to try to light a fire under them. He did remark on Mr. Observer’s slightly improved color and, when informed of the Taco Bell burrito, threw his hands up in mock horror and said “Oh noooooooooooooo!” He is a tiny (we’re talking maybe even shorter than Captain Miscavige), hilarious and brilliant man. We love him.

    Anyway, here’s the moonrise chez Observer a few minutes ago.

    refresh

    • Wonderful moonrise photo!

      It’s always great when you have a brilliant doctor with a sense of humor! 🙂

    • Rasha

      Lovely pic. And, yeah, having a doctor like that is great. My dermatologist has a really dry sense of humor that seems to put people off, but I think he’s great.

      • dchoiceisalwaysrs

        maybe your dermatologist should use some moisturizing cream for that dry sense

    • pixie dust

      Nice one. I love this shade of blue.

    • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

      Gorgeous pic, Obs. I hope the mister gets some good news soon…

    • Missionary Kid

      I’ve got a cast iron stomach. Taco Bell doesn’t bother me. Neither does McDonald’s, but if I drink too many cokes, I get acid reflux.

      I hope they find what’s wrong with Mr. Observer soon, and the fix is easy.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Obs, I am glad you have a brilliant doctor and hope they figure this out soon.

    • Sherbet

      Thanks for the report. Lots of optimism here.

    • ze moo

      Full moons are pretty, unlike my moon’s reflection in the mirror.

    • Margie8

      When I had gallstones, Taco Bell kicked my ass! Spicy food set off the pain. My doc said he’d seen big tough guys crying on the floor from attacks. I hope you find answers quick. Good luck.

    • Baby

      Gorgeous shot Obs.. Thinking of Mr. Obs. and of course you. xoxo baby oops 000 I know you don’t like to hug.. I kissed the back of your neck.

      • Observer

        Who says I don’t like to hug?!

        • Baby

          Oh MY BAD.. I thought you said that a long time ago.. Well Come here Darlin.. HUUUUUUUUgggggggs.. Did you feel it.. smooches..xoxox baby

    • Lighthouse

      Am I terribly wrong but isn’t a discussion like this more appropriate on Twitter or Facebook? I know I’m in for a huge chiding for writing this. It’s just that there’s this huge news from Moscow and I’m invited to join the discussion to find that it’s about anything but.

      I’d be interested to know what Tony feels about it. If he’s okay with it, then so be it.

      Observer, I wish you and your family all the best.

      • One Human

        Lurk moar.
        Despite the seriousness of the scandal that is Scientology, we try to maintain a healthy level of levity and empathy, especially for those that share remarkable talents and warmth.
        If Tony disagrees with things, he says so.

      • Observer

        As Tony has pointed out, we’re a community, and many of us regulars care very much about each other. He doesn’t discourage off-topic conversations in the least, and I’m not the only one who has posted about health issues (you should catch Science Doc’s epic mid-surgery posting from a few days ago). Also, in today’s post Tony explains why the Moscow story isn’t really all that important.

        If you don’t want to see off-topic posts, look in the right margin at the top of the post, where you’ll see a minus sign and a flag. If you don’t want to see the conversation, click the minus sign and it will collapse the original post and all responses.

        • Yep, he once said he encourages OT conversations!!

    • sugarplumfairy

      Thinking of you guys, Obs.. Good news is coming.. I know it..

  • Kim O’Brien

    Um ….i don’t know about you guys …but i’m not gonna cheer on the side of Russia for banning a crazy cult cuz they want to promote their own crazy cult and just don’t like any sort of market share . Putin in putting Stalin back in fashion .

    • seriouslyWTF

      If I’m reading this right. They were not banned for being a religion..
      “In court on Monday, ministry lawyers argued that by registering this trademark Scientology had violated Russian laws on freedom of conscience and religion. Shutting down Scientology in Moscow did not violate religious freedom, as the ministry was simply applying consumer protection laws, said a ministry spokesman.”

      From what I am getting out of this is that they recognize that scientolology is a business masquerading as a religion and they are protecting the consumer.

      • madame duran

        So if the issue is that Scientology is deceiving consumers by behaving like a religious group instead of the commercial business that it is, then why doesn’t the Justice Ministry move to have Scientology’s religion status or tax-exemption revoked? In other words, officially alter Scientology’s classification in the country. There is no need of an outright ban (although I can sympathize with those that regard the cult as a serious danger that ought to be either neutralized or removed). People would still be able to practice Scientology beliefs but not have the formal recognition of a faith group. It seems that there wasn’t any legal due process where Scientology got to present its side prior to judgment (and thus put its arguments on court record–a benefit to critics everywhere as it lends itself to possible exposure and further examination which always gets the cult into a defensive position). It appears the Justice Ministry raised an issue, the city judge sided with its complaint, issued the ban, then Scientology was notified afterwards. Seems like a rushed, imposed decision rather than one that was reached with impartiality. As much as I rejoice when Scientology gets denied (*pauses to smile over recent appeal ruling for Monique Rathbun*), we can’t demand fairness if we don’t grant it to others. I’m feeling there’s another narrative going on here.

        When it comes to the Russian government, I’m highly suspect of its motives (especially under the likes of Putin who has imperialist goals). I don’t believe it is acting out of any primary concern for Russian consumers (although it’s a good sounding line to use with media). It likely views Scientology as a foreign competitor threatening to grab some Russian territory/loot. There’s only room for ONE corrupt, human rights abusing, mafia-like dictatorship system in Russia that’s allowed to suck people dry…and it’s Putin’s own!

    • Margie8

      I understand where you’re coming from. I’m a conservative and truthfully I’m shocked at how many of my fellow conservatives have become pro Putin. I understand they feel he’s acting where Obama failed with ISIS but it’s for entirely different reasons and doesn’t nullify the fact that the Russians have been really pushing us lately. Going into our airspace, playing chicken, etc. It’s a very dangerous game. At the same time, anything that stops Scn is good.

      • Kim O’Brien

        sometimes ..the enemy of our enemy ..is not really our friend 😉 ..and i’m a hippie socialist LOL

  • Sarah James

    “Gross and repeated violatins” seem to mean something different in Russia than in the U.S. Captain David ” let him die” Miscavige, your business is not weclome. Pack up your trademarks an scurry on.

  • otherles

    It’s a wog law, of course they’re going to violate it.

    • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

      Those Russians don’t cotton to violators. They invented the pogrom, killing Nazis, the USSR, and pouring Russian Dressing on American apple pie. Nikita had very small feet but knew how to use his shoes. Joseph Stalin had a bizarre moustache and liquidated everyone who made fun of it. Even when they dance they kick. They put vodka in their coca-cola. They lock up their constitution and forget where they put the key before making these decision. Scientology beware.

  • Supper Powers

    I just got here, but I’m eager to count how many comments scoff at this: “…because the priest will not be protected by the secrecy of confession.”

    Thanks, JJ!

    • Free to shine

      Yup, threw up a little in my mouth when I read that.

      • Margie8

        Here, here.

    • madame duran

      First of all…
      Priest? What priest? There are AUDITORS that do “counselling” services FOR A PRICE.

      Secondly, that sentence needs to be changed to “…because the auditor will not be protected by the secrecy of surveilled confessions. The lawyer probably meant “confidentiality” instead of “secrecy” but we know that there’s no such thing in Scientology. Confessions documented with handwritten notes that can be reviewed by third parties at any time? Hidden cameras or other recording devices in auditing rooms? Oh so typical habits of a religion…no resemblance to the former KGB at all! [/sarcasm]

  • Jgg2012

    I much prefer the approach of Belgium and France. Prosecute them for fraud. Religions don’t practice medicine, so they cannot hide behind the “it’s based science… It didn’t work?–oh, but it’s our religion” duplicity. Banning a religion is, sorta, I don’t know…

    • Supper Powers

      Well, I do like that they are emphasizing it’s an American corporation. I hear what TO says about banning it making it more appealing, so it’s the only silver lining I can find if he’s right.

  • Tony’s point is valid. And so is the fact that more Russians (including scientologists) will google scientology and find this blog and many more sites. So there is that too.

  • StudentOfLife

    Kim makes a valid concern above but I’m not so sure Putin’s wish to bring Stalin back is pulling the strings here. IMO Putin will never have a chance to make that happen given the power of the internet today. It appears LieIntology has been in it’s usual mode of deception, spying, setting up blackmail and avoiding all transparency in what it really does. Foot bullets as usual hit those size 4 Lobbs of the psychpath David (laughing stock of the internet) Miscavige.
    http://en.news-4-u.ru/moscow-scientologists-spy-equipment-seized.html

  • Evey Hammond

    Banning Scientology is in many ways like parents who try to get a child out of an abusive relationship by forbidding the child to see the abuser. According to most experts, it simply sets up an “us versus them ” mentality and drives the child further into the relationship.

    • April

      “A statement at the ministry’s website said officials had acted after ‘gross and repeated violation’ of federal laws.”

      If this is true, then why shouldn’t they be shut down?

      • Evey Hammond

        I’m just saying that it may not be the most tactically advantageous solution. It may just drive everyone underground where it will be harder to convince members to leave Co$. Legally, the case is different, an I understand that. I just want to be in the best position to get the membership out and trigger a collapse that way.

        • April

          I agree. What would make more sense is to prosecute them for all those “gross and repeated violations” of federal laws.

        • Ben Franklin

          Would you rather see a CoS in Russia that is operating illegally and open to prosecution for Illegal acts, or a CoS operating with all the legal rights and powers to conduct their business as usual the same way they do in USA.

          Underground organizations do not have legal rights to own property or extract money from people legally. They would just be an underground church with no legal rights to speak of, how can this be advantageous or beneficial to Scientology as a religion in Russia

          • Evey Hammond

            I am not concerned with the preservation of Co$. I am not on your side, and that is all I have to say to you.

            • Ben Franklin

              I am not for the preservation of Scientology either.

      • dchoiceisalwaysrs

        Makes sense. Nonetheless I would like to know exactly what those ‘gross and repeated violations of federal laws’ were and what are the related laws.

    • Mockingbird

      But the parallel fails to account for other factors like Scientology recruiting and hiding behind the religious cloaking . The emperor needs to be stripped bare.

      • Evey Hammond

        I was just trying to channel Steve Hassan here. I would advocate going after the top people as individuals, while working to get the publics out.

        • Mockingbird

          It is tough. DM will fight prosecution and extradition.

  • Mockingbird

    Ultimately this if it stands is a PR nightmare. The cult reportedly is desperate for religious workers and if Russia won’t play ball bye bye new Sea Org recruits. Also the cult has long pretended massive expansion in places like Japan, Russia and Germany. As court debacles come out US cult members can see that Germany has fewer Scientology members than the number of comments Tony Ortega gets in a day. Also by the government monitoring German orgs they have kept track of one community having 130 Scientologists for a couple years. Scientology has reporteda many, many more members.

    The truth is getting harder to hide from.

    • Ben Franklin

      I believe this gives the church even a better chance of recruiting more Russians by claiming religious persecution in Russia. Most of whom would be put to work in places like USA, Australia, or UK

      • Mockingbird

        If Russia won’t let them leave for Scientology then what will they do ? Remember the cult violates lots of laws as a religion so if Russia doesn’t recognize that then the cult may be accountable in their courts . Miscavige may not want Russia bringing folks to the UN and human rights courts to explain what the truth rundown is like. Or the RPF,

        • Ben Franklin

          If Russia does not let them leave there is not much they can do, except they can claim religious persecution as a basis for amnesty elsewhere. Some Countries don’t care much about UN and it’s organizations, they just see the UN as a political tool, that they can use to their advantage. Russia is one of those countries that I don’t think cares much about UN unless it is in their benefit. Russia violates UN rules and regulations as they please. I don’t think Miscavige worries much about the UN and international Human rights courts either, otherwise, he would not be letting so much human rights abuse go on under his watch. Many dictators have been tried and convicted in international Human rights courts, but, I am not sure if they have ever convicted a religious leader

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      “Germany has fewer Scientology members than the number of comments Tony Ortega gets in a day.” Nicely put!

      • Mockingbird

        🙂

    • On the other hand, there is nothing like perceived persecution to motivate believers – and this is how events in Russian courts will be presented by the CofS to Scientologists worldwide.

      If the European Court of Human Rights get involved again, and decides that the Russian decision was contrary to law, that will make matters even worse.

      Let’s face it, Russian courts tend to be creative forums for bending the law to the will of that country’s rulers. Stalin was wrong – the enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend.

      You’re right – worldwide the truth is becoming known – but Russian events are potentially more of a setback than an advance.

  • Aaron Smith-Levin

    Dialing in from Moscow! I’ll be flying home tomorrow morning now that my work here is done. HAHA! Nah, just kidding. I am in Moscow. I am flying home tomorrow. But it’s just an amusing coincidence that I’m here right now. While on my way to the airport tomorrow, if I can pull it off, I’ll swing by the Moscow Org and get a nice selfie out front to document the day. I’m sure the driver will understand.

    • Supper Powers

      Look forward to that!

    • flyonthewall

      freakin sweet! You visit Lenin’s tomb?

      • Aaron Smith-Levin

        I didn’t get to see that! Another time. I was a bit annoyed that, when I went to buy the ticket to go into the Kremlin, that there seemed to be at least three different tickets to buy in order to see everything, and the signage was not every clear as to what my ticket was actually for. They have Lenin actually embalmed and ON DISPLAY in the tomb. It would have been freakin’ wild. And also, no photos or video are allowed inside the tomb. If it’s not on Facebook it didn’t happen.

    • Aaron Smith-Levin

      In Photo #1 we see St. Basil’s Cathedral. In Photo #2 we see the Tsar Bell in front of the Archangel’s Cathedral (both inside the Kremlim). Photo #3 is some of the biggest damn snowflakes I’ve ever seen in my life. Photo #4 is the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier.

      • Rasha

        Yeah, those would have to be pretty big snowflakes to show up like that. Nice pics, thanks!

      • Margie8

        Those are from God, showing His pleasure in the decision ❄❄❄
        The Russians just said that The White House gave ISIS a 45 minute warning before bombing. Hmm.

      • I lived there for a few years. Mostly good memories. How do you like it there?

        • Aaron Smith-Levin

          It’s very nice. Feels like a place that’s better to visit than to live though. Also this time of year, the sun came out briefly once or twice in the past week. Without speaking the language there’ s only so deep I can delve. English speakers have not been easy to find when I wander around.

    • Mockingbird

      Well done.

    • Margie8

      Damn good job! Safe flying ✈

    • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

      HEY! HEY! (nyuk)

    • Aaron’s post has most upvotes so far and yet it’s not on top.
      Pretty sure, no Russians were involved in downvoting his post.

    • Always Amazed

      Well played Aaron, well played. Love that smile, thanks for the pics. travel safe.

    • Nada Jurisich-Fontana

      We loved Moscow ! Hope you enjoyed!

  • MM

    “There was nothing unusual in religious books being protected by copyright, the lawyer argued: it was a way of protecting these texts from distortions introduced by heretics.”

    Looks to me like someone needs to seriously word-clear ‘copyright’…

    Copyright has nothing whatsoever to do with “distortions” or “heretics”. Instead, it has everything to do with making and selling copies, which is a business model.

    Also, by trademarking the very name of your so-called ‘religion’ you deny anyone who would be inclined to practice said ‘religion’ in any other way than as a paying customer of your business their freedom of religion.

    I guess Dr. L. Ron “Religion Angle” Hubbard didn’t see that one coming 😀

    • Supper Powers

      I read it the same. They didn’t outlaw the practice of Scientology, they outlawed the business of Scientology.

    • Ben Franklin

      Someone needs to tell the Scientology lawyer that are so many different versions of the Bible and there is nothing wrong with that. People can pick and chose what version they prefer or believe in. This is called Freedom of choice.

      • Margie8

        Yes, Same with The Book of Mormon. If it’s supposed to be “another testament from the Lord Jesus Christ” why would we trademark it? Ut oh, another question for me to ask the Bishop. At least he’s not exasperated with me yet… he’s new. The last one would duck into doorways when he saw me.

        • In the UK rights to the King James Bible, The Book of Common Prayer and some similar texts are still vested in the crown. http://www.cambridge.org/bibles/about/rights-and-permissions

          This is an historical hangover from the period in which they appeared, when the Catholic and Protestant faiths were not just at loggerheads over doctrine, but actually fighting and killing (the Spanish armada, Guy Fawkes and all that).

          The rights were reserved so that the Crown (read COB) could exercise absolute control over what the Churches taught the people (read Scientologists). It was realpolitik plain and simple.

    • That legal argument would be more convincing if CofS publishing was a genuinely non-profit activity, and if the money made was ploughed back into the advancement of their ‘religion’, or ever given away to good causes.

      I don’t see anything wrong with bona fide religions copyrighting certain works to protect themselves from misrepresentation, or even to protect an income that is spent doing good – although perhaps taking a trademark might often be a better approach.

      As long as Scientology:

      1) just piles up all of it’s money (at least, the part that isn’t spent on keeping Miscavige in luxury an Cruise on side) in it’s reserves
      2) Only spends on bad works (e.g. persecuting a variety of innocent people)

      Yes… it’s running a ruthless business, not practising a religion.

  • Aaron Smith-Levin

    I’m no expert in Russia’s laws, but I think it’s extremely clever to rule that by trademarking the hell out of Scientology, the Church has forfeited it’s right to be ruled a religion, since it is invoking commercial protection. I obviously can’t comment on the constitutionality of it, but it’s damn clever. After all, what other religions have attempted to protect their “commercial” interests using Trademark law. Are there any?

    The C of S can say that the Trademarks are to protect its purity and not its income, but the fact is that the US courts have already ruled that the C of S cannot use cannot use its Trademarks to prevent “squirreling” outside the Church. The Church never prevailed in shutting down David Mayo through the courts.

    There also exists the Independent Scientology movement. The C of S sure as hell is not shutting them down through use of the Trademarks. So what are they for? Just getting copies of the OT Levels removed from certain websites?

    When I was in the Sea Org at ASHO there was a time when RTC was pissed that ASHO was not delivering enough Power Processing. Power Processing is the only action that ASHO delivers which is considered “Advanced Services” (anything above Clear). The stat of the RTC Reps is “Dollars of Advanced Services Completed”. The RTC Reps wanted to flex their RTC muscles and they issued ASHO a written order officially REVOKING their license to deliver any Power Processing until X, Y and Z was done.

    This was of course a lose-lose since now ZERO Power was getting delivered. But this was their way of saying, “You don’t fuck with US. WE fuck with YOU.” It was also a way to shame the then-Captain ASHO Day (Jon Lundeen) by making him the only Sea Org Captain to ever have his license to deliver service revoked.

    This is ONLY actual way I have ever seen the trademarks enforced internally. And it sure as hell was not to “keep the religion pure”.

    Only time will tell if this ruling holds up. But kudos to whoever thought up this angle after all this time.

    • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

      It is called the, “not-a-religion angle”.

    • Margie8

      Just info, my Church (LDS) holds a few trademarks. Most recently, there was a case against a dating site called Mormon Match. I now the Church settled with the guy. I would have to do a little research but so far all I’ve found is this:
      “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,” “Liahona,” “Book of Mormon,” and “Mormon” are trademarks of Intellectual Reserve, Inc.'”
      Pretty standard, I think.
      They should add: bike, Hot Missionaries, “The black thing was really just a misunderstanding,” “Yes, you can drink Coke,” “Sacred not secret” and “No, we don’t actually baptize dead bodies.” Oh, and for my family, “Ummm, it was raining REALLY hard and they looked like drowned rats. Ordinarily, we don’t let them hangout at our house all day watching movies… uh, yes sir, they were all rated G or PG. We’ll never do it again, we promise.”

    • Skabetti

      They’re a religion when it’s convenient. Not a religion when it’s not. Sounds like they’re stuck. Good. Mike Rinder has a post on this topic today, too.

    • Lady Squash

      Hi Aaron,
      It is clever for Russia to rule that by trademarking the hell out of Scientology, the Church has forfeited it’s right to be ruled a religion. I have often wondered the same thing. What religion does that? Glad you brought it up. Glad Russia brought it up. Why hasn’t our legal system brought it up?

    • Lighthouse

      My wish is that other countries see this and take their cue from Russia. I know it’s a long shot but it would be good, wouldn’t it?!

  • Sarah James

    “Secrecy of confession” well maybe Caption David will share those pc folders with some vodka and a good time will be had by all. He could offer Tom Cruise’s.

  • ze moo

    Stupid is as stupid does. Some great American philosopher said that. By making $cientology outlawed, the Russian Judiciary just made it more attractive to anti-establishment people. Not that there are many anti-establishment groups in Russia. I can’t see those punk women {whom I adore from afar} Pussy Riot signing up for the purif. They got that for free when they went to jail in the summer. Is there an anti-purif? If so, Pussy Riot got that in the winter.

    There is no real Russian Judiciary, the are just tools of the oligarchs.

    • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

      Well, maybe…

  • Snuzey

    “Secrecy of confession…” When does that ever happen?!

  • Margie8

    Since I have Russian royalty in my blood, замечательно!
    Hope that’s right cause I only gotta little ✌

  • BosonStark

    I shudder to think about the religious texts about Xenu falling into the hands of heretics…pneumonia…possible death.

    • ze moo

      I’ve been feeling a little bit stuffy these last few days. Could it be because I read about Xenu 17 years ago? Wow, that is one delayed curse Lroon threw at me. ‘cough’, ‘cough’….nahhh, I just need some NyQuil. The nose opening, stuffiness taking, 10% alcohol ‘medicine’. Hell, maybe I just open up the bottle of good bourbon.

      • Supper Powers

        Bourbon and honey, baby. That will make you right.

        • Rasha

          VBN – by prescription only.

          • Supper Powers

            Rasha, you make me frequent Urban Dictionary so much!

            • Rasha

              Hehe! That was one of mine! Vodka Bunker Nailgun! ^_^

            • Supper Powers

              Ha! You’re so sinking cute!

            • Rasha

              ^_^ !!!!

            • Margie8

              I love Urban Dictionary. My daughter (27) always catches me, “Ma, I KNOW you looked that up!” LOL! Nah, I am just that cool.

          • Margie8

            ❓❔❓

            • Rasha

              A little cocktail of my own design… muahahaha…. ^_^

      • Margie8

        My husband and some are BIG NyQuil fans. The Mormon high.

    • Ben Franklin

      That’s very funny, and it’s absolutely true. Seriously, why would the church be worried about copyright violations if this stuff can cause pneumonia when it falls in the wrong hands?

      • BosonStark

        It’s the copyright that gives it its power. Pay no attention to the farce behind the copyright!

        • Ben Franklin

          I know. I just found it to be funny that either they don’t believe in their own claims, or they know the claims are bogus.

    • Some people get god damm pneumonia every other winter anyway. And most get over it.

      • Rasha

        I read parts of OTIII each Autumn to build up my immune system for those New England winters…

        • Supper Powers

          Laugh out loud moment of the day.

  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

    I know these things are complicated and I look forward to reading those who will accurately point out the subtleties of the decision.

    Nonetheless, “A step in the right direction,” I say.

  • nottrue

    Break out the Bulldozers…..

  • Acherontia

    Maybe Russia can work on its treatment and attitude towards gay folks next. I’ve got a pretty high tolerance for the terrible, but I couldn’t finish an hbo doc about treatment of gays in Russia. It turned my stomach.

    • Margie8

      It’s not exactly pleasant for gays in Muslim countries either, in fact it’s far worse.

      • Acherontia

        Not pleasant for them in many places, unfortunately.

      • gtsix

        No, it is about even.

        • Margie8

          Well, either way it’s disgusting and needs to be stopped somehow.

    • James Morris

      I did likewise; same show, same reason.
      They’ve a long, long ways to go. Simply as a consequence of social pressures, the gays are forced underground and must deal with outright discrimination, drug abuse (esp. Krokadil), and criminal victimization. It’s like ten times worse than the US during the late 70’s.
      Fortunately, official Russia does not see anti-homosexual aggression as sufficient reason to turn a blind eye and tolerate Scientology.

      p.s.: Is it just me, or does the faintly lingering history of the Stalinist Soviet governmental past sensitize the Russians against totalitarian fascist groups? I can certainly see where a man in the street would read how Scilons behave and react by never letting this happen again, anywhere!

  • Larry

    Well, what are the millions of Russian Scientologists going to say?

    • Ben Franklin

      In which lifetime are we talking about?

    • Sherbet

      Oh, you’re a card.

    • JaxNGold

      Millions. Hilarious. Earlier today there was an article about the Moscow ban which said something about “the reported 8 million $cientologists”. It’s beyond annoying that they didn’t even bother to mention that those numbers are a total lie, considering the recent census.

  • Mark

    Vinegar-tits Vladimir has broken his frosty Russian silence on this story (refresh his glass of Pertsovka before he becomes even more frosty):

    • JaxNGold

      “Vinegar tits…”

      Laughter!!

  • Jgg2012

    btw, religions can and do have copyrights. That is not the problem. The problem is fraud and coercion. As to the latter, imagine ISIS saying “but we’re a religion”.

  • Mike Rinder just posted his take on it:

    “Moscow Ruling”
    http://www.mikerindersblog.org/moscow-ruling/

    Very good analysis, imo.

    • Always Amazed

      thanks Dodo. nice read, I love his insight.

      I learned a word today..

      in·im·i·cal
      iˈnimək(ə)l/
      adjective
      tending to obstruct or harm.

      • I will not pretend I knew that word before.

      • Lady Squash

        Thanks. I was too lazy to look it up.

  • Always Amazed

    Tick Tock Davey

  • J. Swift

    Justice ministry lawyers said that Scientology had registered the word “Scientology” as a trademark, Ria Novosti reported. It said a Scientology organisation in the United States, the Religious Technology
    Center, held the rights.

    The front page of the RTC website specifically states that it holds the Dianetics and Scientology trademarks. Chairman of the board of the RTC is David Miscavige, Scientology’s leader.

    So now the Russians know the name of the man who, for all intents and purposes, owns and operates the Scientology Inc. scam.

    In court on Monday, ministry lawyers argued that by registering this trademark Scientology had violated Russian laws on freedom of conscience and religion. Shutting down Scientology in Moscow did not violate
    religious freedom, as the ministry was simply applying consumer protection laws, said a ministry spokesman.

    Bravo for Moscow! The use of consumer protection laws to safeguard Muscovite’s against the Scientology criminal fraud is the right thing to do — even Judge Waldrip of Comal County, Texas agrees that Scientology is a business.

  • Ella Raitch

    deleted – already posted

  • Panopea Abrupta

    It seems to me that DM is being positively PTS on this copyright issue in Russia.
    He already had a warning shot across his bows earlier this year;

    Wastrel Orin Greed Hugh G. Wastrel

    attorneys at law Oral Y. Orin
    http://www.wog-law.com Lafayette Greed
    May B. Testy
    Buddy T. Hetan
    Hamilton Sandwich

    Re: the number 47

    Dear Dastardly Misconception,

    It has come to our attention that the Crutch of Slime Anthology and you, in your role as Chastiser of Bivalves (COB) and Clam of Dog, have begun to use and abuse the number 47 frequently, extravagantly and without cause, right or reason.

    Our client, Mitt Romney, has clearly established his prerogative to use the number 47 in a free and unhindered fashion prior to you. Mother Jones magazine, on Sept. 17th 2012, released video footage of a fund-raising dinner of May 17th, 2012 where he is clearly seen and heard to state that 47% of Americans pay no tax. This footage is readily available online on You Tube. If, for ecclesiastical or educational reasons, internet access is not available to you, we would be happy to telex a transcript to you.

    Mitt Romney is one of the foremost experts on non-payment of tax and, as a fellow non-payer of tax, you must acknowledge the primacy of his claim.

    If further proof is required, on November 4, 2012, 47% of the US electorate voted for Mitt Romney.This is a matter of public record and may easily be verified with the Director of Elections.

    Mr. Romney has sought our legal advice and counsel. He wants his number back. Cease and desist in your use of the number 47.

    PETN (People for the Ethical Treatment of Numbers) have suggested that they will support our client in pursuing vigorous action against you to the fullest extent of the law if you do not.

    Mr. Romney has suggested that he would be quite happy to cede the number -25% to you at no cost for your future statements about your statistics,

    Yours Sincerely,

    Ham. Sandwich

    p.s. Your 76% for Narconon cure claims is also problematic

    pps We are gonna hurt you bad on that one

    47 Sacred Underwear Way,

    Monogamy,

    Utah

    Licensed in Texas, Oklahoma and Utah

    Ph. (474) 747 4747

    • Rasha

      …that’s the same combination I have on my luggage…..

    • Ben Franklin

      The second article makes some excellent points for religious organizations’ use of trademarks and copyrights

    • But but .. the Buddhists…

      Shaolin temple fights to protect trademark
      http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=46,4584,0,0,1,0

      Boot to the head!

    • Margie8

      I don’t always agree with my Church but suing the bastards that insist on using our name and abuse children, I’m all for it. Personally, I have no problem with polygamy as long as I can have some extra men and they’re of age. These freaks try to use some wild interpretation of The Book of Mormon, the same way our founder did, to have extra wives. It’s the underage thing I don’t get. Where the hell did they find that cause I sure can’t!

    • Supper Powers

      Join the Mormons and get your own planet to lord over!

      • kemist

        Join today, and the planet will even be able to support life !

        *Offer valid for a limited time only. Special conditions may apply. Applicants must be white males and fond of magical underwear.

      • Juicer77

        But only if you have a wanker. Otherwise you’re just a baby factory.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      There is a difference between a church and a religion. A church is a legally incorporated entity, which has a responsibility to protect itself in the marketplace.

      A religion, on the other hand, is simply a philosophical system that is ostensibly available to all. Otherwise, it is nothing more than another consumer product, like Herbalife or Curves or Gymboree. Funny that the Russians understand how this applies to Scientology ™, but here in America we do not.

  • 3feetback-of-COS

    I think SCN’S ability to generate sympathy and IAS donations may not be as strong as it used to be.
    The bad PR may outweigh any sympathy for this “poor persecuted church.”

    • Ben Franklin

      Gives the Church another opportunity to try and squeeze out more dollars from their whales.

      If they are lucky they may find a government official who is sympathetic enough to bring the issue up whenever US Government has any negotiations to do with Russia.

  • Moscow didn’t ban scientology. Tom Cruise banned Moscow.

    • Ben Franklin

      Is it safe to conclude that Tom Cruise movies will no longer be screened in Moscow? That would be something. I wonder if Vladimir Putin would care.

      • madame duran

        Any idea if the Russian government has a subscription? If it does, I’m sure Bodhi Elfman would be racing to cancel it.

  • Zack Comstock

    Yeah, screw with Russians, good luck.

    • flyonthewall

      WOLVERINES!

      • Margie8

        LOL!

    • flyonthewall

      the mujaheddin screwed with the Russians, worked out pretty good for them

    • April

      Especially when it will be winter soon.

    • Ben Franklin

      Especially an “American” based religion. Good luck with that in Russia. One can already sense the Cold war overtones and mentality in the court’s ruling

  • Ivan Mapother

    Scientology will have a hard time intimidating Russian judges this time of year. Most swimming pools are froze over and it will be hard to drown the judge’s dogs. The fact is, Russian dogs were so tough, they were chosen as the first cosmonauts. If the clams want to put pressure on the Russians, they’ll get control of the nation’s vodka and cigarette supply and turn the screws from that direction.

    • Rasha

      Throwing one back for Laika…..

    • Supper Powers

      I’m pretty sure the concern is to how Russia will rule upon appeal, it’s going to the bigger European human rights commissions and being validated as legit. That’s my perspective and I may be wrong.

    • Margie8

      That’s funny! Had to read that one to the husband!

    • Ben Franklin

      OSA spies breaking into government offices in Russia, now that would be interesting.

      • kemist

        Yes, it would be an interesting mix of evil bumbling fools meeting a curious and tragic fate.

        Like the offspring of clowncar and a trainwreck.

        • Ben Franklin

          Imagine being caught in Russia stealing government documents. I can’t imagine the Russian government just brushing it off as some sort of a minor misunderstanding.

          • kemist

            No, and I can’t imagine the russian government giving 2 millifucks for Tom Cruise.

      • ReallyMGM

        If they get caught at that, I wonder how OSA will enjoy the gulag? I don’t know that they still exist but don’t think they have country club prisons in Russia.

      • dchoiceisalwaysrs

        It is however much more on point as to why the Russian government sees scientology as danger.

        It is related to the the writings (banned somewhere in Russian) in scientology’s political motives such as………http://solitarytrees.net/cowen/misc/literati.htm

        The Control Agenda:
        Control, Responsibility and Freedom in the Church of Scientology
        by Chris Owen

        FIRST PLACE WINNER
        2000 LITERATI CONTEST

        excerpt…

        Within weeks of announcing it, the Special Zone Plan was subsumed into a permanently staffed body within the Hubbard Communications Office of the Church of Scientology — the “Department of Government Affairs”. Hubbard was even more explicit about the goals of this body, which still exists to this day as a function of Scientology’s Office of Special Affairs:

        [ “The goal of the Department is to bring the government and hostile philosophies or societies into a state of complete compliance with the goals of Scientology. This is done by high level ability to control and in its absence by low level ability to overwhelm. Introvert such agencies. Control such agencies.”

        (Hubbard, “Dept of Govt Affairs”, HCO Policy Letter of 15 August 1960) ]

    • anoni81b4u

      Russia has plenty of crappy smokes and vodka for the home market!

    • Ben Franklin

      Before trying to take away a Rusian’s supply of Vodka and Cigarette, don’t forget where AK 47 comes from.

  • StudentOfLife

    O/T but wanted to make some people laugh to lighten up what Jimmy3x referred to as the Underground Bummer given the topics have been so raw and 2nd post today plus resumption of Belgian trial is good news. Bill Maher and others continue to mock LieIntology. Scilon reference is at the 1 minute mark. Part 2 video where he interviews a Muslim lesbian is pretty funny. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2b3lshUKhk

    • Baby

      This is good..thanks student..

  • anoni81b4u

    One for mother Russia 🙂

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    Good.

    That is all.

  • Nezquik

    I know why the Russians shut down Scientology; Tom Cruise blew up the Kremlin.
    (Mission Impossible IV, for anyone that thinks I’m nuts)

  • A Dangerous Beauty

    In Soviet Russia, Scientology bans YOU.

    It’s about time someone did this.

    • Rasha

      I was trying to think of a good Yakov Smirnov line…..hehehehe!!!

      • Jimmy3

        I sorta met Yakov Smirnov this summer. More like just a fist bump and “good set, man”. I have to admit I didn’t recognize him at first.

        • Rasha

          So cool!! ….His forehead is getting big, but otherwise, how could you miss him?

          • Jimmy3

            Haven’t seen him in a long time.

        • Rasha

          …I was desperately looking for the MST3K host segment where Joel and the Bots meet their Soviet counterparts, Sorri Andropoli and his …. bots.

          Couldn’t find it, so I’ll leave the reference, and head off to bed. Abysmal failure……

  • MostEthicalPimp
    • MostEthicalPimp

      Actually good advice for anyone in the cult or wondering what to do with LRH’s shit.

  • L. Wrong Hubturd

    I’ll just leave this here….for anyone looking for their freedom. Stimela – The Coal Train

    https://youtu.be/FhuBWcJEWhY

  • Supper Powers

    Totally OT My boss wants to give me the Myers Briggs test. I don’t want to take it bc I think it’s BS. Anyone have thoughts on that? Collapse the thread if this is an annoying OT.

    • MostEthicalPimp

      cheat?

      • Rasha

        …that, too. Same outcome.

    • Rasha

      I remember there were attempts to better place people into roles within businesses by “typing” them with tests like that, or giving them tasks that best suited them, but it was pretty much discarded back in the ’80s, as I recall. I thought it was BS as well. The “test” was a general grouping, much too general to be informative or effective as a placement tool. Tell him to stick to good old phrenology.

    • Rachel

      I took it many years ago. Can’t remember the outcome now but my boss was annoyed because I wasn’t whatever it was she wanted me to be in order to pigeon hole me. It is absolute BS.

    • 1. Check the boss’s bookshelf for books on MyersBriggsology.
      2. Offer the boss a Free Stress Test.

      • Supper Powers

        Haha!

    • Jimmy3

      I have no thoughts on that. Thank you.

    • I would certain reject questionnaire junk like the secular version of the Oxford Capacity Analysis, but at least there I would have the religion card to play as workplace religious harassment.

    • Baby

      Supper.. Yes I took it years ago for a Mental Health Mandatory hiring test..

      None of us questioned why we had to take it..we just took it.. I think there were maybe 23 in class with me. They all passed. It was never brought up again. That was like in 1982.. So Who knows what the hell was going on.

      I don’t remember if I was even given the results..or where the results even ended up..I do it was just under HR hiring guidelines back then.

      I would talk to your boss and ask why he would recommend the test. There is a difference between

      ” Wanting you to as opposed to demanding…”

      Before I would take one I would have to have a definitive as to why I should. If it wasn’t mandatory I would not.

      • Supper Powers

        Thanks Baby. It bothers me bc it’s quackery, IMO and to be managed based on quackery is pretty unprofessional. The whole thing has me sick.

        • Baby

          Oh honey shake it off.. seriously don’t get sick about it. I don’t know the situation.. so many variables..

          Do you like your job? Do you like your boss? Has he/she asked everyone or just you?

          I hate to me Micromanaged.. Put in a box type thing.

          I am an introvert,

          but when people meet me I can be quite chatty.. and really appear quite the opposite. I’m not fake.. It’s just that the human mind is quite complex and adjusts to situations.

          There is no test that would reveal that. I’m leaving in a minute to go to a farmer’s market. If you want to discuss it just leave a comment..Maybe I can walk you through your anxiety.. OK honey..

          Don’t ruminate about it..It will just continue to make you queasy. We will get through this together ok.. Love baby..(HUGS) It will be OK.

          • Supper Powers

            Thanks! I love my job, my boss is good although I’m not sure about his leadership style. I know he really likes me. What bothers me is he relies on this test to inform him how to lead. I want to say , just what you said, the mind is complex! How I deal with one problem will vary to the next bc of all the variables including timelines, players and desired outcomes. It just seems like a flawed shortcut to leadership. I want to say, why don’t you pay attention to and get to know how people are instead of using quackery to justify your judgements! It’s probably not that big of a deal like you said.

            Hope you found lots of delicious goodies at the market!

            • Baby

              Supper.. OMG.. I love that you love your job. It appears to me that your boss thinks that the test will make him a better boss..not make you a better employee.

              He/ she lacks confidence and wants to know how he can be a better leader.

              I would say.. ” If this will make YOU feel better about how to lead me I am not opposed to taking it. But why don’t you just ask me. and I can tell you myself. ”

              1. I am good with deadlines, but don’t like to be reminded about them every day.

              2. I get along with most employees very well, but I prefer to work quietly at my desk and don’t like to be distracted by shop gossip.

              ETC.

              spell out your strengths and weaknesses and tell him/her how you are working to enhance your skills.

              3. Give him/her the links that were posting that the test was not designed to be mandatory..

              If the boss still insists that you take the test.. I would do it..especially if you love your job. Most people can’t say that.

              Seriously the test isn’t a big dark secret. No one can get fired over it.. It’s for them.. Maybe the Big shots are asking for it.. to ask if he/she is meeting your needs.

              Again.. I am saying..Unless it is the Principle of the thing. You could win the battle, but lose the war.

              And enjoy yourself babe.. People are pretty predictable. His management style may change for a hot minute..but he will go back to the same old same old quickly.. : D

              Just be you.. bite the bullet if you have to..and just carry on. xo

              OK out the door. Yes.. I love the FM I love them..

            • Supper Powers

              What great advice! Seriously. You are right. The test is about him and not about me! I will stick by the data that says the test is BS but take it bc he will feel more competent. Then I’ll confuse him, quite inadvertently, bc the test is BS. He will continue to struggle to put me in a box and that will be his problem. I’ll keep up my high performance (I am great at what I do!) and it will probably just fade away. Love love love the advice. I’ll send you a check! Thanks!

            • Baby

              I’ve given counseling for 30 years.. and always give it no matter if someone asks or not..hahaha

              This was easy supper. You were engulfed in it and getting anxious. It is all about him. Building up his ego.. touting the fact that ” His ” employees took a test to determine how he would individually manage them.

              The same as some people do their love matches astrologically .. ( Is that a word..ha) but you may fill him in on the fact that it makes him look like a control freak that can not judge his employees by their skill level and passion for the job that they are doing.

              My husband and I have the perfect marriage..but NO matchmaking service would ever put us together..not in a million years.

              Thank you for complimenting me on my skills. My friends call me Dr. Phyllis.. ha..

            • Supper Powers

              I like you’re name. A lot. 🙂

            • Baby

              hahahha.. I can be a know it all Supper…but as I told my husband..

              “It’s because I know it all..duh?”

            • Supper Powers

              I respect that!

            • Baby

              hahahah. and THAT is why I like you..hahahhaa .. you appreciate my sense of humor!

      • One of the declared guiding principles of this (quack) text is that there is not ‘pass’ or ‘fail’. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers%E2%80%93Briggs_Type_Indicator

        It seems that does not apply in practice.

    • Joy Lover (Ex-CS)

      I took it several times for myself and always came up w/ INFP: Introverted, Intuitive, Feeling, Perceiving. The book I have “Do What You Are” states possible careers based on your type. I found it interesting, but that was about it. You can always take it online for yourself if you want, and decide if it’s any of your boss’ business or not. 😉

    • Kay

      Well, the Meyers Briggs is a pretty straightforward “personality” test. Sometimes employers utilize it in the work setting to identify personality types and then decide on work teams based on that. However, I would definitely ask what the goal is in having employees take this test, if everyone is taking it, how if the results could possibly affect your employment. I think it’s fair to ask those questions.

    • Um, well, how should I put it. I applied for a job at a company that used the Myers-Briggs test. They decided I was unsuitable.

      Five years later I was cold calling Fortune 500 companies.

      I’d say the test was a fail.

    • Juicer77

      Sounds like your boss doesn’t know how to recognize people’s strengths and aptitudes on his/her own. If you are being singled out, I would ask why.

      • Supper Powers

        He does it to all of us and then perpetuates the myths at staff meetings by saying I hit makes same so and so did that, she’s a blah blah blah.

    • Supper Powers

      Thanks for input. I’m really uncomfortable allowing someone to use a parlor trick to generalize or predict me. I Hope I have the strength to tell him I’m not doing it. Appreciate your insight.

    • This is a test designed to ascertain which of the 18 ‘personality types’ distinguished by the psychoanalyst Karl Jung (on no rational basis whatsover) you belong to. It was ‘designed’ by two people with no formal qualifications in psychology.

      It belongs to the long ago days when people just made this stuff up, LRH style. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers%E2%80%93Briggs_Type_Indicator

      1) It’s results are not valid
      2) Even if they were, any action that you might take on the basis of such vague ‘results’ would depend so much on interpretation that you be better off just using your judgement
      3) You don’t want to be judged on the basis on nonsense results that can be interpreted to mean anything.

      It belongs to that special category of pseudo-scientific business woo-woo along with so many other management fads embraced by people who can’t manage and long for some magic panacea.

    • DAFUQ?!?! just seeing this now…..yeah, DAFUQ?!?!?

  • Почему Мы Протестуем:
    https://whyweprotest.net/forums/scientology-and-anonymous.296/

    Форум Бывших Саентологов:
    http://www.forum.exscn.net/

    Задавайте вопросы.

  • Jimmy3

    Where is the Banhammer and Sickle shoop I ordered?

    • Rasha

      Наблюдатель! Передняя и центр!

    • Ben Franklin

      Unfortunately it was placed in the wrong shipment, It should be arriving on your doorstep by donkey delivery within the next few weeks. Be patient.

  • Если вам нужна помощь с переводом, я помогу. Пишите.

    • outraged

      As translated by Google:

      If you need help with the translation, I’ll help. Write.

    • visitor

      Большой проблемой для лося и белку

  • Just got this box that was lost in Poshta Rosski for two months. That Banhammer and Sickle tee might take some time.

    • Rasha

      I am assuming “Poshta Rosski” doesn’t translate as “Amazon Prime”….

      • Nyet.

        • Rasha

          Gotcha. Just checking.

          • Good. That’s all my Russian.

  • Joel Bruner

    I’m sure “over 1400” Muscovites would come out in support of Scientology – hah! See: http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=233664

    • Ben Franklin

      Just remember what happened to the members of the band Pussy Riot.

  • Bob Crouch

    Maybe if they explain their policy on homosexuality, the Russian gov’t will be more sympathetic. Although I suspect they’d rather have the gays than the scilons.

  • Ben Franklin

    If DM is getting a lot of sleep these days, he is definitely not human.

  • Narapoid

    This “Is it a religion, or a business?” question came up in Mosey’s case and thrown into the scilon attorneys face by Leslie Hyman. Uh, uh, uh (table conference) Why a religion of course!

    As others have said, don’t know where this will go, but it will be interesting.

  • Jo

    I thought they betamaxed or took lots of notes, shared info to be cruel, secrecy of confession seems far-reaching. Think I’m learning the lingo, lol.

    • Juicer77

      They video AND audio every session. And keep notes. And use it later for blackmail and disconnection purposes. It’s truly detestable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvNp-EsDY-w

      • Jenyfurrrrr

        Seriously, that line about “not being protected by the secrecy of the confessional” I literally choked… Um perhaps if you all stopped beating people over the head with their private, intimate details from auditing sessions, people SOMEwhere might actually believe your bull. Russia has merely caught on and sidestep their own red tape to 86 you thanks to your own repeated foot
        Bullets!

  • B4you

    So the scam doesn’t work in Russia!
    Maybe DM is grooming some oligarch as a future whale, over there! Who knows, there must be some psychopath who can see a fortune in cutting of the poor and take there money since Homo Novis has a better use for them.

  • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

    Filthy Godless Russian Communists Attack Church of Scientology!

    Godless Russian leader and SP Vladamir Putin today attacked the Scientology religion. It happened in Moscow when Putin had his kangaroo court rule that Scientology is a business and not the world’s fastest growing religion.

    “This is an outrage!” screamed Ms. Stata Kleer, OSA Int CO of Global Significances.

    http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n196/scienowriter/Bateskathy324thum_zps67mxugve.jpg
    Ms. Stata Kleer, OSA Int CO of Global Significances.

    “Vladimir Putin and his fellow Psych Bolsheviks are obviously terrified of Scientology’s massive expansion in Russia,” declared State Kleer. “The facts speaks for themselves:

    * Over five hundred billion square feet of planned new Ideal Orgs spanning Russia from Vladivostok to London.

    *A 390,000x increase in Russia’s 197,000,000 Scientologists finding parking spots within ten minutes of postulating finding a parking spot.

    * 100% On Source eccleasitcal beatings in Scientology’s 2,219,523 Ideal Orgs.

    “We in the Church of Scientology are royally pissed,” declared Stata Kleer.”It’s obvious that the Moscow court decision is proveable bullshit — and that’s why COB RTC Mr. David Miscavige has ordered us to sue
    those goddamned Russian Commies!”

    “The Way to Happiness just isn’t going to work in Moscow because the entire city is full of criminals
    who are high on drugs. This is true because it has been proven by actual research that only criminals attack Scientology.”

    • B4you

    • dchoiceisalwaysrs

      I think RTC is just upset because the Russian’s are squirreling on COM-munistic EVS and actually using evidence to judge the situation. I mean isn’t it obvious only scientology standard committees of evidence (read as kangaroo courts) as used in scientology justice are to be trusted…..just forget the idea of bringing any evidence….that is too human to be acceptable.

  • Nat-leficent
  • In case anyone is reading here from Russian-speaking countries:
    Если кто-то здесь читает из русско-язычных стран:

    Саентологи, бывшие саентологи и любые заинтересованные лица – всё больше и больше критических книг, документальных фильмов и информации становится доступно с каждым днём, благодаря Интернету. Люди которые пожертвовали большую часть жизни саентологии: морской организации, центрам и миссиям, знаменитости, многие прошли весь Мост – однако ушли из саентологии и делятся своими историями. Почти все члены семьи Хаббарда и Мицкевича ушли из саентологии. Подумайте об этом, пожалуйста. Не бойтесь узнать больше. Как Хаббард иронически сказал в конце Дианетики – желаю Вам не оставаться прежними. Свобода вне саентологии.

    To scientologists, Exes and anyone interested – there are more and more critical books, documentaries and other information available every day, thanks to the Internet. There are people who sacrificed most of their lives to scientology: the sea org, orgs and missions, celebrities, many did the whole Bridge – yet they all left scientology and are sharing their stories. Almost all members of Hubbard’s and Miscavige’s families are no longer scientologists. Think about it, please. Don’t be afraid to learn more. And like Hubbard ironically said in the end of Dianetics book – may You never be the same again. Freedom is outside of scientology.

    • B4you

      Needs to be tweeted also… just did!
      If everyone with a twitter-account tweeted selected comments we could make a huge impact? And take over mankind!

  • Kay

    OK….so I just barely logged in, and all I can say about Russia’s decision is “na-na-na-na-naaaah” to the CoS. DM is having a really bad year. which makes it a good year for everyone else !!

  • Vaquera
  • FOTF2012

    “This is the only Church of Scientology in Russia,” the lawyer added. If
    it was shut down, Scientologists in Russia would not be able to
    practise their faith, “…because the priest will not be protected by the
    secrecy of confession.”

    Oh, Please!

    • B4you

      it’s pathetic…. maybe she gets payed to say stuff like this?!

      • Juicer77

        Yes, but you couldn’t pay me enough money for DM to stick his hand up my arse and use me as a puppet.

        • Supper Powers

          Juicer, listen to you; wanker and arse. You are fully immersed in London!

    • Juicer77

      Not really funny, but… (f5)

  • Lighthouse

    This news about $cientology being closed down in Moscow is the best ever. I hope the cult’s appeal is refused. Wonderful news!

  • Jack99

    This just in! John Travolta just landed near Red Square in Moscow in a small aircraft. “You can’t do this to my church. It’s been beautiful to me.” he apparently said to reporters before being taken away. Film at eleven.

    • B4you

      So true… F5

      • Jack99

        There he is! Lost a bit of weight, it looks like.

        • B4you

          ya! and he has the wrong flag. Guess nobody will notice!

  • B4you

    Let’s start a revolution and send all the books back to the Cult!

  • SlimJim

    I think Scientology is out of luck. per this article http://defence.pk/threads/end-of-legal-imperialism-new-bill-to-give-russian-courts-seniority-over-foreign-bodies.410024/ , Russia is in the process of making its own constitution and laws trump external international bodies laws. So court of Human can just go suck on its thumb.

    and yes, Nyah nyah nyah NYAH nyah to whiney butt hurt Scientologists

  • Snake Plissken

    Seems pretty straightforward to me , if you want to be a religion, then give your shit away for free, if you’d rather keep it as a money making business, then take a fucking hike.

    • Juicer77

      I would agree.

  • Juicer77

    “…did not comply with federal laws on freedom of religion.”
    I’m still trying to wrap my head around this.

    • Mark Foster

      Don´t. Have a vodka. Cheers 🙂

    • chukicita

      It means they see trademarks as a bidniz thing, not a religious thing.

      If you’re going to legal lengths to protect your intellectual property (such as it is), but that property is supposed to be religious, then you are not only stepping on freedom of consciousness laws in Russia (such as they are), but you are also acting like a business and consumer protection laws kick in.

      • Juicer77

        I understand. Just trying (as an Amurrican, where church and state are most definitely separated) how a government can regulate religion. The closest we get is the IRS deciding which organizations get tax exemption on religious grounds.

    • stanrogers

      Hoist with their own petard, you see. If you can’t call yourself a Scientologist without violating trademark, you’re not free to practice your religion/obey the dictates of your own conscience. In other words, if you’re legally preventing schismatics, reformers, squirrels, etc., you’re curtailing freedom of religion. You can’t simultaneously argue for and against freedom of religion; if they want it, they have to grant it.

      • Juicer77

        Ah, Hubbard. He had a Ph.D. in Painting Yourself Into A Corner.

        • richelieu jr

          He ever did trust those Russkies…

  • what’sup

    Awwwwww, you guys are so cute when you’re asleep.

    • madame duran

      That’s not a Lab, it’s a labyrinth!

      • what’sup

        It’s “one of them wrinkly Shar-pei dogs” our proprietor lives with.

    • B4you

      You have no idea what we are doing!

      • Juicer77

        (f5)

  • 0tessa

    Scientology – a religion or a business? My answer would be: a business managed like a cult.

    It seems Europe is finally waking up: The Netherlands (no longer tax-exempt), Belgium (risk of being banned alltogether), Germany (under constant scrutinity), and now Russia (banned); what’s next?

    • B4you

      UK/AUS – someone there has to pay attention!

  • Jack99

    What are the odds the church will play the martyr card?

    • BosonStark

      In 3, 2, 1…they’ve been itching to ramp it up, especially after Remini’s book. Big fundraisers are ahead for all clams, as they face off against this trademark bigotry. Preserve the holy trademark and the sacred ramblings of L. Ron.

      Then there’s the sanctity of Tom Cruise and his holy SP wives. Two in a row — their big being is an SP magnet and their dwarf is surrounded by SP underlings. Praise Xenu.

      • what’sup

        Play the martyr card, get the master cards….simple.

      • madame duran

        Foreign box office is becoming a stronger factor in overall movie success; in some cases, it’s the only thing to keep it afloat. Cruise should tread carefully when threatening to pull out one of his films in retaliation for not approving Scientology. On the other hand, it would be nice if he remains stupid and clueless of his waning power outside of action films.

  • MostEthicalPimp

    Great I can’t go to google.com for the day because I have a Christian fudamentalist Web filter installed!

    • Juicer77

      Lucy says hi. 😉

  • Fink Jonas

    “Church of Scientology denounced the ministry’s action against it as anti-religious and an abuse of rights” Russia will be like and?

  • Fink Jonas

    “Scientologists in Russia would not be able to practise their faith” yeah right as if there were millions of them, they make it sound as if people are trying to practice scientology which we all know it does not happen till you are coerced to join the cult.

  • Fink Jonas

    “secrecy of confession.” the nerve to call it secrecy of confession, when we all know there is a lot of people looking at the pc files and even used as black mail material. criminals.

  • BosonStark

    I wonder what kind of bribes the cult will cough up to go along with their court appeal. It better be good. Maybe they should reopen as a fully certified, registered and trademarked floor wax. Lots of marble floors in Moscow and Scientology can keep them gleaming. “Your floors will shine so brightly, you’ll thank Xenu.”

  • sugarplumfairy

    Lol.. I’m loving it.. The Russians are smarter than we are, where scientology is concerned, anyway..

    • ze moo

      I do like the ‘its not a religion, its a business’ angle.

  • Gerard Plourde

    Interesting that Scientology’s lawyer tries to conflate the issue of trademark. While it is true that published works are customarily trademarked, religious groups don’t routinely trademark their names (unless you’re Scientology).

  • Silence of the Clams

    If it was shut down, Scientologists in Russia would not be able to practise their faith, “…because the priest will not be protected by the secrecy of confession.”

    Poor scientology, they won’t be able to video tape and blackmail people. Talk about religious persecution. What is Teegeack coming to?

  • scottmercer

    It is a reasonable argument that an organization employing a “trademark” is a business rather than a religion. After all, the word “trade” is right there in the term. Not to say that churches can’t engage in trade; how else would they ever buy anything, build buildings, etc. But trademarking the name of a religion definitely brings it more in line with the m.o. of a for-profit business.

  • Gabreya Bradley

    This is great to hear! Suck it, Scientology!

  • richelieu jr

    Yeah! If the 500+ people who get their hands on the ‘confessionals’ can’t keep a secret, then who can?

    Or perhaps the ‘trademark dispute’ was really from LRH stealing KGB and Stasi tactics from Uncle Joe Stalin?

  • Michael George

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