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‘Going Clear’ Q&A: Mike Rinder and Sara Goldberg take heat from Scientologists

Muvico1

 
Last night, Alex Gibney’s documentary about Scientology, Going Clear, began a theatrical run at the Muvico 10 in Palm Harbor, Florida, just a few miles from Scientology’s own “spiritual mecca” in Clearwater. And after the 7 pm showing, two of the people who appear in the film, former Scientologists Sara Goldberg and Mike Rinder, engaged in a Q & A that was moderated by WTSP Channel 10 television reporter Mike Deeson.

Filmmaker Mark Bunker attended the event, and afterwards called us to let us know that a couple of Scientologists — one of them Sara Goldberg’s former husband — had launched personal attacks on Sara and Rinder, leading to a chaotic shouting match.

Bunker captured it on video for us, and we’ll let you tell us who got the better of it. The excitement begins at about 18 minutes in.

 

 
——————–

The most sedate Scientology “testimonials” video we’ve seen

We can’t get enough of the hyperactive testimonials videos that Scientology leader David Miscavige puts together for big church events. But of all the ones we’ve seen, this new one that turned up has a strangely slow quality to it, even with the pounding, thumping soundtrack that you will no doubt find familiar.

This video is from 2006, and we’ll have more to say tomorrow about where it comes from. For now, enjoy how much the Congresses — reissued lectures L. Ron Hubbard gave in the 1950s and early 1960s — are changing lives!

 

 
——————–

Bonus items from our tipsters

Nice timing, Scientology Mission of the Foothills…

 
SRDStudents

 
Hey, girl. Let’s teach Denver how to learn!

 
SciStudentHat

 
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BOOK NOTES
3D-Unbreakable

We didnโ€™t get a chance to include photos in our book, so weโ€™ve posted them at a dedicated page. Reader Sookie put together a complete index and we’re hosting it here on the website. Copies of the paperback version of ‘The Unbreakable Miss Lovely’ are on sale at Amazon. The Kindle edition is also available, and shipping instantly.

Tony Ortega’s upcoming appearances (and check out the interactive map to our ongoing tour)…

 
Oct 23: Sydney, Giant Dwarf Theatre (with Sen. Nick Xenophon)

Oct 25: Melbourne, venue secured (announcement coming later)

Oct 28: Adelaide, Wheatsheaf Hotel, (with Sen. Nick Xenophon)

Oct 30: Perth

Past dates: Santa Barbara (5/16), Hollywood (5/17), Orange County (5/17), San Diego (5/20), San Francisco (5/22), New York (6/11), Chicago (6/20), Toronto (6/22), Clearwater (6/28), Washington DC (7/12), Hartford (7/14), Denver (7/17), Dallas (7/20), Houston (7/22), San Antonio (7/24), Austin (7/25), Paris (7/29), London (8/4), Boston (8/24), Phoenix (9/15), Cleveland (9/23), Minneapolis (9/24), Portland (9/27), Seattle (9/28), Vancouver BC (9/29)

 
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Posted by Tony Ortega on October 3, 2015 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of LA attorney and former church member Vance Woodward

UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists

GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice

SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer
The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill
The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

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  • Beth

    โ€ฆ.
    (nothing to see here. accidental post. carry onโ€ฆ..)

    • Jimmy3

      massage oil

      • Observer

        Sexual assault accusations

        • Jimmy3

          You are clearly better at the word association game than I

          • Observer

            I was associating to your post. I’d have said “walking corpse” to Beth’s. He ain’t looking so good these days.

          • Beth

            Ok full disclosure of my lamebrained stupidity. I was looking at something on my phone and I remembered seeing in the paper a couple of days ago how John Travolta attended the felon-laiden wedding of John Gotti’s grandson John Agnello this past week. I went to my laptop (6 inches away from my face) to google it. The laptop was open to this page of the bunker and I typed in ‘John Travolta’ to the ‘join the discussion’ box and hit ‘post as Beth’ as if that were google. Yes, I did that.
            I’m all lost at the supermarket. I can no longer shop happily.

            • Jimmy3

              lol. It’s okay. One time I accidentally posted “Sears catalog, but dirtier”

            • Observer

              I think we’ve all been there. Fortunately so far I’ve always caught myself before I hit post, but I have no doubt my day is coming. Good thing I only Google boring or sometimes weird stuff.

            • Beth

              yeah same here. John travolta is as freaky as it gets these days.

            • Free Minds, Free Hearts

              I love this explanation Beth!!!

            • Beth

              ๐Ÿ™‚

            • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

              Didn’t someone do exactly that a couple of years ago and ended up posting their Disqus password here?

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Did… did you just type “John Travolta???”

      • Beth

        LOL ๐Ÿ™‚

  • Chee Chalker

    More like Mission of the Footbullets

  • David E Love

    Good job, Mark Bunker…

    • Kay

      And…attempting to part the Red Sea by the look of the lower right picture.

  • pluvo

    David Miscavige deserves so much an opponent like Mike Rinder who knows him and the regime through and through. He is unable to hold a candle to Mike; and he knows it. He is not having the balls to challenge him in public (or anybody else in fact) but is hiding behind ‘spokesperson’ ‘Karin Pouw’ like a little girl being tied to mother’s apron strings. His defense is the ‘Freedom’ mag of his “Ministry of Truth”. Pathetic.

  • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

    We in RTC are “high fiving” each other today for the way our boy confronted and shattered suppression in that theater.

  • Mark

    Now that Mark B. has captured a clam positively brimming with command intention, operating full-pitch at Tone 40 to confront and shatter entheta, can we expect similar demonstrations of OT ‘powers’ at other showings of Going Clear? (Refresh by going to the lobby for more raisinettes):

  • Jeb Burton

    To the poor lady who was so sad about the perverted joke that Scientology has become, it didnt become perverted. It was perverted from the start, because it was started by a perverted mad man. I like how the cultists didnt come in for the whole film, it was said they came in at the end. And do they always accuse the exes of stealing? Everyone of them is a thief?

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Years ago I worked with some people who ran a very large ministry. I became aware that they, um, rather regularly had their hands in the cookie jar. And they spent an inordinate amount of time investigating everyone around them, convinced they were surrounded by thieves. Is it any wonder?

      So yeah, Scientologists go directly to this when they accuse others of wrongdoing. Thieves. All of them.

  • Google does it for free.

  • Still_On_Your_Side

    Each of two disrupters, including the deadbeat dad, epitomize an alter cocker (old fart in yiddish).

    • Always Amazed

      I was thinking more along the lines of “Putz”.

  • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

    READ FREEDOM MAGAZINE FOR THE TRUTH

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Freedom Mag is the only Source for discerning minds that aren’t all that inquiring!

    • romanesco

      Read it and got the 411 on Karin Pouw. Sheesh, what a bitch! And those infantile smear videos. Well, I guess everybody knows what Scientology’s all about now.

    • Miss Tia

      READ THE TRUTH FOR FREEDOM FIFY ๐Ÿ™‚

    • salin

      Nominate John Suggs from the Alfred E. Newman Award!

  • Edward Clarke

    I’m afraid I have to point out that Mike Rinder is waaaay off the mark at 38:25 – “Nothing is wrong in having weird beliefs”, which he then goes on to point out its “weird actions based on beliefs” that are the problem.

    What he fails to realise is that weird actions based on beliefs are propped up and allowed based on the vast numbers of people who just have the weird beliefs. Moderate believers are the enablers of extremists. France didn’t say no to the Iraq invasion because they are ‘surrender monkeys’, they said No because W. Bush was quoting utterly fucking insane Bible passages down the phone at them about Gog and Magog. This is now public record.

    Folks, I know many of you have been deeply hurt by Scientology and I sympathise. And yes, Tony is right in Going Clear when he points out that Scientology hides its intentions in ways that Christianty and Islam do not. But that doesn’t change the fact that you could maybe count the amount of corpses directly caused by Scientology in David Miscavige’s lifetime on one person’s fingers. YOU CANT DO THAT FOR CHRISTIANITY OR ISLAM EVEN WITH EVERY FINGER NOW REPRESENTING ONE MILLION PEOPLE.

    Think about that. Mike, utterly insane weird beliefs held by billions including the rulers of powerful nations ARE INFINITELY MORE DANGEROUS than a few thousand Scientology knuckleheads doing bad things.

    • Observer

      Mao. Pol Pot. Stalin.

      • Kay

        Baby Doc Duvalier, Kaddafi

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          David Miscavige.

          (I assume we are compiling a list of the most reprehensible people in recent history…?)

        • Observer

          Were they atheists? My point is that in every belief or no-belief group of human beings there are some twisted individuals who think the extermination of people they consider troublesome or evil or inferior is acceptable–no, necessary, and can persuade others to buy into murder. It’s an issue of flawed human nature, not faith or absence thereof.

          Oh, and I forgot Robespierre.

          • Kay

            Yes they were…..I was “ditto-ing” you with further examples. ๐Ÿ™‚

            • Observer

              Okay. I assumed Khaddafi was at least nominally Muslim, but it was just an assumption.

            • Kay

              I think perhaps he was was a muslim in name only, much like Miscavage is a scientologist in name only. (both of their actual beliefs stem around money, control and violent behavior)

          • Edward Clarke

            Atheism hasn’t been mentioned. All of those people had a fairly extreme belief system comparable to religion.

            • Kay

              Uh, the kid who shot the college students in Oregon was an atheist, he posted that fact on social media AND specifically shot kids who stated their religion when he demanded they do so.

            • Edward Clarke

              He also followed hardcore religious groups. I think it’s safe to say he wasn’t right in the head.

            • Kay

              Check the media….he was against organized religions. and he specifically shot kids who professed to be religious. Yes, of course he was not right in the head

            • Enturbulated Masterbator

              What I read was he was anti Christian, not anti religion. Perhaps I am wrong…

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Ahem.

              No matter how thinly you slice it, it’s still baloney.

            • Edward Clarke

              What is? Talking snakes?

              Weird beliefs are always bad. Someone has likely been killed due to it in the time I’ve been typing and it’s nothing to do with Scientology.

            • Observer

              Atheism has a low bar–not believing there is any kind of supreme being. All those I mentioned were atheists just as much as the extremists you used in your example were Christian or Islamic.

              I would also like a link to a reputable source of the numbers you claim have been killed by either of those faiths.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      If you are unhappy with weird beliefs, that’s fine. And if you embrace weird beliefs, that’s fine, too. I agree with Mike Rinder– it is the actions that trump the right to weird beliefs.

      (And per capita, Scientology has caused far more misery and turmoil in this world than Christianity and Islam combined. The mind boggles at a world that actually had millions of Scientologists acting on their belief system.)

      • Edward Clarke

        You can’t act on weird beliefs though unless those beliefs are held by a vast portion of those you lead.

        Life saving stem cell research couldn’t have been halted in the U.S. because of one man’s belief in a book about talking donkeys. He only got away with it as it was shared by a great deal of the population.

        • Jimmy3

          “You can’t act on weird beliefs though unless those beliefs are held by a vast portion of those you lead.”

          Very false. Didn’t the Son of Sam kill a bunch of people because he believed a dog was telling him to do so?

          • Edward Clarke

            Who was he leading? You’ve even quoted the context.

            • MM

              When did Mike Rinder say that he was talking about people who were leading someone?

            • Jimmy3

              Well then you’re taking Rinder’s comments way out of context in your criticisms. He wasn’t speaking only of leaders. But you seem to have skewed it that way.

            • Edward Clarke

              Read the bloody post properly. Weird beliefs are dangerous as they allow leaders with the same beliefs to act on them and get away with it. Often to the detriment of tens of millions and that’s just recently.

              This is how Christian and Muslim leaders get away with things they otherwise wouldn’t have managed.

              I’m not sure how twisting my point to say the weird belief ‘example’ is now that your dog is telling you to kill loads of folk is any good… this makes Mike’s comment even worse.

            • Jimmy3

              Weird beliefs are entirely harmless unless you act on them in a harmful fashion. Sometimes I believe my dog is trying to communicate with me telepathically. I can’t hear what he’s saying, because he’s not a telepath. And I have no desire to hurt anyone. He probably just wants me to open the fridge anyway.

              And you shouldn’t be demanding anyone read your post “properly” when it’s based on an improper interpretation of what the man was saying. Try again.

            • Edward Clarke

              The beliefs of Christian America used to halt stem cell research – if we agree this was based on unreliable, fantastical, highly dubious, badly translated ancient holy scripture – who is to blame? Just one man? Everyone who shared the belief / interpretation and didn’t speak out? Many commentators were vocal about this act costing lives, so this is no small matter.

            • Jimmy3

              No. There were millions upon millions of Christians who supported stem cell research and thought it was a damn shame that a small group halted it. You lumping millions of people into the same small box only shows how small you think.

            • Edward Clarke

              Again, I specifically let Christians who supported it off the hook in my post.

              But I’m not sure millions upon millions versus small group is accurate either. It certainly isn’t backed up by the voting statistics. Unless Christian apathy = a vote for it.

            • Jimmy3

              I don’t remember it being put to a vote. Certainly no one ever asked me or my people to vote on it.

            • Missionary Kid

              You’re confusing fundamentalist Christians with all Christians. There are a lot of different flavors of Christianity. The fundamentalists would have you think that their view is the only correct one.

              Stem cell research is not something that other protestants necessarily oppose. The fundamentalists have their own warped interpretation of the bible, and they insist that their interpretation is the only one, which is obviously wrong.

              Having grown up among the fundamentalists, I understand where they’re coming from.

              Their power is waning because of their misunderstandings of the world around them. I can say that I find the statements of GWB on Iraq, which was based on lies, and the stance that they have taken on abortion, birth control, gay marriage, and Islam to be abhorrent, and younger Americans are turning away in droves as a result.

            • Edward Clarke

              Every Christian group sticks to their interpretation. They don’t have a choice – the book contradicts itself too often.

              My criticism is that Scientology is very bad at a bunch of stuff which seems to put it bottom of the heap. And for people here who might have been personally affected, that will seem reasonable.

              But it’s small beer compared to the damage inflicted by the others.

              As much as I’d like to see Miscagive’s head on a pike, at the same time Scientology, by taking advantage of religious freedoms, have perhaps started an argument that may close the door to what a lot of them are getting away with. It may not, but I hope so.

            • Free Minds, Free Hearts

              Just because it doesn’t have very many members doesn’t mean it isn’t dangerous. The scam cult has lots of $$. Lots of deaths. https://theyshouldnothavedied.wordpress.com

            • Missionary Kid

              It isn’t a matter of the bible contradicting itself. The fundamentalists take the bible literally, and they pick and choose which old testament passages that they want to follow, just as other, non-fundamentalists do. There are also many other Christian groups that do not take OT dictums seriously, but try to determine the spirit in which Jesus’ words were written.

              That being said, I believe that you have managed to duplicate the Co$ argument that compared to other religions, $cientology isn’t so bad. You have, in effect, started a derail.

            • Edward Clarke

              Well, I’d say you can’t both take it literally and pick and choose. You’re already not taking it literally when you do the latter. As the last defector from the Phelps family stated, she left when she realised that they were NOT taking it literally, as to do so would have been a disaster. She thought she was a true believer in the whole book. And when she learned she wasn’t, she couldn’t reconcile the contradiction and left.

              Fortunately part of Jesus’s teaching is that you have to follow every line of the OT, so there’s no escape from the barbarism even for NT adherents, without playing serious mind games with yourself.

            • Missionary Kid

              You may say, “…you can’t both take it literally and pick and choose”, but that’s exactly what biblical fundamentalists do. They take passages on homosexual behavior in the OT to direct them to consider it an abomination, but they ignore passages that also allow fathers to sell their daughters into slavery and the stoning of people who divorce or commit adultery.

              Fundamentalists of all stripes engage in reinterpretation of scriptures, and that includes $cientology. They ignore or bury LRH’s racism and misogyny, yet insist on following other directions that he left for them to the letter, such as cleaning windows or the purif.

              IIRC, Jesus didn’t insist on following every line of the OT. Even the most fundamentalist Jews do not do that. There is also a problem with the reinterpretation of OT and NT scriptures that besets every fundamentalist that occurs every time a translation has occurred because of changes in language over time and the philosophy of the translator. Indeed, fundamentalist Christians pretty much pick and choose what they take out of the Torah.

              As to the Phelps family members, one of the problems that protestants face is the idea that every person is to study the scriptures and let their faith guide them as what they believe is important. The defector only followed a different personal interpretation of what the scriptures meant.

              I’m an atheist, but I was raised in a fundamentalist missionary home. You are an outsider, and don’t understand the amount of philosophical gymnastics that fundamentalists engage in to follow their personal interpretation of the bible. You don’t have to be raised in a fundamentalist environment, but the hypocrisy involved with anyone claiming to follow the bible’s dictates exactly is glaringly obvious to outsiders.

              I believe that the literal interpretation of scriptures leads to all sorts of weird corners, particularly with the changes in societies that take place over the centuries, particularly as societies change from tribal, insulated, societies to modern societies that are more open.

              I happen to agree that Bush’s fundamentalist Christian beliefs led to a lot of deaths, both of American soldiers and middle eastern civilians and soldiers. It is evil. I believe that particularly his Vice President should be prosecuted for war crimes.

              The fundamentalist beliefs of the Taliban and ISIS have also lead to a lot of deaths of innocent people. Fundamentalist and intolerant beliefs have killed a lot of people.

              That being said, you are engaging in a derail. That is not the topic of this blog or its commentary. If you want to discuss the evils of fundamentalist Christian or Muslim or Jewish beliefs, this is not the forum.

              You are engaging us just as $cientologists do, saying, in essence, that $cientology isn’t so bad in comparison, so we should lay off.

            • Edward Clarke

              MK, there are several incorrect assumptions in this post. Most notably, a repeat of the first several responses to my initial post. At no point have I suggested laying off Scientology, or allowed them any leeway. I haven’t said a single kind word about ANYTHING connected to the religion (which many former Scientologists, even in the above video, still do). I merely pointed out that there is a repeated mantra going on about how Scientology is somehow worse than other religions which amount to little more than ‘weird beliefs’. This just isn’t true. Even those who don’t personally act on these beliefs are propping up those that do, even if by no more than being counted towards a majority consensus, which in turn has given certain people licence to produce policies that have an actual body count.

              Jesus told his followers to follow every ‘jot and tittle’ of the OT.

              I’m not just Bush bashing. Christian interpretations of wacky scripture have lead to millions of African HIV infections given they cornered the market in aid but banned condoms. All due to a verse in a book which told also told them to execute people who work on a Saturday. This Pope-lead drive was probably far more deadly than anything Bush ever did.

              I’m not sure why you’ve assumed the level of my exposure / lack of to fundamentalist beliefs.

              I also didn’t see it as a derail. I was directly commenting on the content of the video.

              Being ‘declared’ an SP by a 30,000 strong religion might be horrific for the person involved, but do you know what the equivalent is in most of the 1.6 billion strong Muslim world? No disconnection, no A – E steps. It’s a death sentence. But I still get the impression amongst Scientologists that they think their version is uniquely unjust.

            • Missionary Kid

              Maybe I should have been clearer. Your act of bringing up the sins of fundamentalists of other stripes is the same as used by $cientology trolls to take us away from discussing its evils. While you have not asked us to lay off $cientology, it is a tactic used by $cientologists. It’s a “look over there” diversion. It’s a derail. That is what I object to in your posts.

              In the former $cientologists I’ve met, I’ve never had the impression that their version was uniquely unjust. It is a matter that, on a personal level, in our society, it has been cruel. It is something that can be fought in our society, and, if possible be prevented from being exported to other countries.

              Do you know a lot of ex $cientologists?

              I agree that Catholicism’s (and fundamentalist protestant’s) campaign against the use of condoms has lead to unnecessary suffering and death. Indeed, the persecution of “witches” by African pastors is evil as well, and it has been encouraged by fundamentalist American pastors.

              The fact that you use the term, “jot and tittle” means that you’ve been exposed to fundamentalist cant. Other Christians ignore that phrase, or have a different interpretation of its meaning, and none abide by all of the OT, even the most fundamentalist of Christians. As a matter of fact, fundamentalist Christians have a higher divorce rate than other Christians, and much more is said condemning putting aside one’s spouse, both in the OT and NT than ever mentioned about homosexuality, which definitely existed in Roman times, and Jesus had to be aware of, but never mentioned.

            • Edward Clarke

              Do I know a lot of exes? No.

              ‘Jot and tittle’ doesn’t prove I’ve been exposed to anything, other than having read it in The Bible. Of course many Christians ignore it, otherwise they’d be killing their own children which the OT allows them to do.

              Not sure what you mean about Jesus’s exposure and what he talks about. It’s a religious text that you can take with an enormous pinch of salt. It never happened. And even if it did, it’s just a Chinese whisper highlights reel from at least four generations later.

              Again, whatever Scientologists do to derail shouldn’t be an issue here. I didn’t say ‘look over there’ as you suggested. Mike Rinder did, and he did it in the video under discussion. And I think he did it with almost complete ignorance of how bad the other religions continue to be in the world. Not to mention this…

              The fact that one of the ex Scientologists replied to me stating that atheism was ‘the lowest bar’ as it didn’t assume the existence of a supreme being, is one person likely to bounce from one group of nutters to another. It’s always worth pointing out the big picture, even in the off chance it makes someone less cult susceptible.

            • Missionary Kid

              “Jot and tittle” was an expression used often enough when I was a kid fundamentalist. In the U.S. it’s rarely used, but I believe it’s more common in other English speaking countries. Since many fundamentalists hew to the King James Version of the bible, they often use English terms that are from the era it was written in.

              In Roman society, there was common relationships between men and men, indeed, there were contracts drawn up between the subjects, and, since Rome ruled Palestine, I would suppose that he would have been aware of that behavior. He didn’t mention homosexuality.

              Mike’s ignorance of the evils of Christianity isn’t the topic. It was the evil that $cientology visits upon people, especially in the U.S.

              Indeed, Christianity has a long history of evil and intolerance, from the Crusades, the Inquisition, and all sorts of religious wars, often fought against other Christians.

              I’m very much aware that the first four books of the NT are based on an oral tradition, written down even after the Epistles, and included a view of reality that put faith above demonstrated fact. Indeed, the gospels were probably never written by any disciples named Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, if they ever existed, and whoever wrote Revelations was either deranged or on a form of acid.

              Indeed, the council of Nicaea threw out a lot of other interpretations of the NT and ordered them destroyed. They tried to eliminate all of the mysticism that permeated the other stories not included in the bible.

              I also don’t believe that a book written by authors in bronze and early iron age times should be used as the rule book for anyone in modern times. There are things that can be learned from the bible, IMO, but it’s simply a book, mostly of fiction, IMO.

              The opinion of one ex that atheism is the lowest bar is simply the opinion of one ex. You’re also making assumptions about what they have done or their susceptibility to other cults. Among the exes that I know, most have used their Co$ experience as an inoculation against any other group that would control their lives.

              There is a pervasive believe in U.S. society that disbelief in a deity is an easy thing to do, and, in my personal opinion, it is not. It took me 40 years to finally declare myself an atheist, after spending most of my time as an agnostic after leaving Christianity, in all its forms.

            • Edward Clarke

              MK, I think we are more or less in agreement.

              ‘Jot and tittle’ like many Bible quotes, is still best known to most people over 40 from the King James Bible.

              I would go further than saying Matthew et al probably never existed. Stylistic analysis states that not only do we not know who these four actually were, there weren’t even four of them. Two are rewrites from a single source.

              Talking of analysis, it strikes me that anyone with the time and resource, could chart the development of ideas in science fiction in a very precise manner, and pinpoint LRH’s ‘discoveries’ to be nothing more than an invention completely in tune with the time he wrote it, right down to the year and tiny details like the name he gives Planet Earth, etc.

            • salin

              I appreciate the last paragraph in this post. It gives insight to your motivation and interest here – per shedding light on Scientology (even closing doors) may pave the way for doing the same for what some other religious groups are getting away with.

              In that light/perspective, your other arguments make more sense. You might want to start again – sharing that perspective (if I am correct in discerning your motivation) might lead to more fruitful discussions.

              CoS actors/defenders and some others visit here often – and one of the common tactics is to distract from main discussions – often with comparisons that appear to intend to diminish the bad actions of CoS. Some of your posts have fit that pattern, though I don’t think intentionally so. I write this to give you context. Peace.

            • Edward Clarke

              salin, yes you are entirely on to me.

              That *is* the driving force behind my interest in this subject. To quote comedian Doug Stanhope “People believe ridiculous shit because it’s handed down over centuries. But L. Ron Hubbard made some crazy shit up and sold it directly to adults. Recently!” That makes it a far better object of study / interest, although no doubt muddied by the bait and switch aspect, and that many people are supposedly only interested in the communication improvements. (Of that, I’m not personally convinced)

              Here’s the irony for me. Mike talks about the tax breaks, and they are allowed because the Church in theory is doing good. OK, take away all religious tax breaks for everyone right now. And guess what will remain – when a Church *does* good with the money, it will be tax free. That’s already law just about everywhere. Basically, there are already laws governing not taxing good deeds. But religious groups are granted complete exemption meaning they don’t have to bother. In other words, if they did what the IRS believe they should be doing, it’s all tax free anyway!

              And I know Scientology is hiding behind all sorts of other devious stuff, which might not affect anyone else (child labour, it’s own prison system, etc). But just as the Westboro Baptist Church have inspired laws just to deal with them, I hope Scientology will bring the roof down on religions being treated specially in the West.

              Scientology, for those exasperated by religious influence and not personally affected by it, could have some positive effect in the long run. Actually in that regard, I kinda like Miscavige where he is. He’s such a tyrant, I think he helps the cause against Scientology. It would be disappointing to see him replaced by a reformist who puts a happy face on things, gives interviews, refunds, money to charity… but still pays no tax and splits families apart.

            • romanesco

            • Best derail meme ever.

            • Missionary Kid

              EXACTLY.

            • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

              Ha! That’s brilliant.

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          One person can, indeed, act on weird beliefs.

          • Edward Clarke

            The context is there.

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          100% of Miscavige’s minions share his beliefs, that is a vast proportion.

      • Edward Clarke

        As per your ‘per capita’ comment… ridiculous. Has a single person ever been killed in the name of Scientology? Just one? Ever?

        But as for the rest, we are talking a figure greater than the population of North America. There is just no comparison.

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          Has a single person ever been killed in the name of Scientology?

          Uh, yeah.

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          Oh dear. Edward has already begun editing comments after the fact. Do we need to keep screen grabs?

          Here is this one. The second part was added after the exchange.

          I am headed back to work. Lunch break is over. Enjoy the rest of your day!

          • Edward Clarke

            I haven’t edited a single comment. I think your mind is playing tricks on you. Either that or you just like to flat out lie.

            And even if I had done, what is your point? What difference did it make?

          • Mary Smith

            How about this one as an example???
            Ciancio died Dec. 30, 2009 while he went to the office to collect a severance check from Fowler Software Design. Ciancio had decided to leave the company after the founder, 58-year-old Rex Fowler, had diverted $175,000 in company funds to Fowler’s church, the Church of Scientology.

        • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

          Correct Edward. We in the Church of Scientology don’t need to kill people when can drive them to suicide, bankrupt them, control their minds, destroy their families, or enslave them in the Sea Org.

        • Enturbulated Masterbator

          I agree that the Islamist fanatics are currently the biggest threat to the world. As for Christianity, it went through a reformation and I don’t consider it dangerous. Scientology doesn’t stack up to the numbers of those killed but it is destructive to be sure…not a killing machine but definitely destroys lives.

      • ze moo

        $cientology never started a war. Christianity and Islam have. Both have caused so many deaths and misery that they cannot be compared to $cientology.

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          You are missing the per capita caveat. I am not suggesting that in sheer numbers more people have died because of Scientology compared to Christianity and Islam. But I do assert that based on numbers of adherents and life span of the religion (60 years), Scientology has been more egregious.

      • sizzle8

        @Douglas D. Douglas How did you arrive at this conclusion, “And per capita, Scientology has caused far more misery and turmoil in this world than Christianity and Islam combined.” ?
        Could you give your ballpark numbers?

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          Based on history (2,000+ years for Christianity/Islam, 60 for Scientology)and numbers (literally billions of Christians/Muslims down through the centuries, maybe a half-million to a million total Scientologists in 60 years) I stand by my assertion.

          • sizzle8

            Just for the sake of conversation, a bit of Googling shows that about 60.5 billion people have lived since the year 0.
            With a ratio of 31.5% Christian vs 22.3% Muslim (I know this is not adjusted for when Islam started), then you have 19 billion Christians and 13.5 billion Muslims since year 0.
            If you assume that religion causes “misery” for 1% of adherents, then you get 190 million miserable Christians and 135 million miserable Muslims over 2000 years.
            That gives 95000 miserable Christians per year and 67500 miserable Muslims per year.
            If you do the same comparison for Scientology, i.e. 500000 members over 60 years with a 1% misery index, you get 83 miserable scientologists per year.
            Orders of magnitude different.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              The point is that Scientology causes more misery per capita. Your comparison assumes all things are equal.

    • Miss Tia

      I’m afraid I have to point out that Edward Clarke’s comment is waaaay off the mark.

    • romanesco

      Oh, Jeez, Louise! Not this fucking Clarke crackpot again. You know how he insulted Jon Atack and Jim Beverley? Next.

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        Now, tell us how you really feel about him…!

        • romanesco

          Dunno, but here’s his lunch order…

          • Kay

            ewwwwwwww… I like it !

            • romanesco

              Yeah, at first I thought they used pasta for the teeth, but now I think it’s minced onion.

            • Kay

              I bet you are right…I have been puzzling about what the teeth are made of.

            • Kay

              Also, underneath the “cheese skulls” it looks like they may have used eggplant to give the heads those shapes.

            • pixie dust

              The one on the right looks like corn.

    • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

      Mmm, I think you missed Rinder’s larger point. They way I interpret what he’s saying is this: in all belief systems/religions/whatever, you have weird or fringe beliefs that when acted on or taken to the extreme would be dangerous. Those who do act on them are usually a small subset of adherents, and we call them extremists or fundamentalists. Scientology is different because you must act on them–it’s institutionalized, built into the system of belief. It’s KSW, right? I think what he was getting at is that scientology is more dangerous at its core because everyone gets pushed into a fundamentalist frame of mind.

      • Edward Clarke

        He mentions Xenu which is comparable to other religious beliefs. He’s right, it’s no stranger than any of the Abrahamic belief systems. But so far it just doesn’t compare in actual damage done.

        Do you think Bush was keen to keep Christianity working? It sure looked like it to me.

        • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

          I think you’re taking Rinder’s argument in a different direction than he intended. Is it accurate to say that extremists connected to religions that have been around for centuries are responsible for more damage in real numbers than a cult that’s been around for half a century or so? Sure. Obviously. What’s your point beyond that?

    • FollowTheMoney

      So is your argument that Scientology is alright because it’s body count is lower?

      Scientology in its entirety is a fundamentalist belief system that creates fanatics out of every one of its adherents unlike the religions you mention that merely have pockets of fundamentalism. Those pockets are often condemned by the more mainstream members which would never happen in Scientology.

      • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

        Thank you. You summed that up better than I did.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Hey have you thought that $ciloontology has less corpses because it has so few members?

  • Still_On_Your_Side

    How long did Miscavige coach the two disrupters whose antics were a complete fail? Miscavige must be feeling the heat over the tax exemption issue, as evidenced by Deadbeat Dad bringing up the issue of tax payments….

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      That was a weird thing to bring up, as if the amount of taxes they pay somehow excuses their horrific abuses and fraud.

      • Miss Tia

        but but we pay taxes!! so you leave us alone with our human rights abuse, our human trafficking, our destruction of loving families, our fair gaming people, you just leave us alone cuz we pay taxes dammit so we can do whatever the fuck we want! (they’d do it anyway….it’s in their ‘scriptures’)…..

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        As if it excuses his not paying child support?

      • jane456

        Is Alex Gibney making little Davey nervous?

        • Kay

          Yup, li’l pocket man has probably upped his cigarette intake and put in more bullet-proofing everywhere.

          • jane456

            Extra, extra cases of McCallan…..What a great religious leader, chain smoking cursing and drinking, drinking, drinking. There’s a real heroic figure, I tell ya.

        • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

          I sure hope so.

      • Enturbulated Masterbator

        Yea, and wait until they are not tax exempt. They will feel the burn.

    • Juicer77

      Just when you think Co$ arguments are from the bottom of the barrel, they break through and start scraping the mud.

  • Michael Leonard Tilse

    Great Q and A with Sara and Mike. Great to have Mark Bunker up and around to film the real behaviour that originates from the distorted insanity of Hubbard’s creation.

    It is almost as if someone at OSA said, “Lets write a program and drill our most fanatic Scientologist assets to go there and provide an exact illustration of the dangers and insanity of Scientologists under the influence of Scientology.”

    “That way, the people in the audience will get a real life demo to underscore the message of the film and validate every point that scum Mike Rinder and Sara Goldberg make. It will make a fantastic impression. And on the Internet too because you know Bunker will be there filming so we can use his reporting to amplify the public disgust at our activities.”

    “Yeah! Perfect! Let’s do it!”

    Really. It’s like they deliberately tried to alienate people and inspire vigorous opposition. It’s like they were working for the Psychs!

    • Missionary Kid

      “It’s like they were working for the Psychs!” And Mismanage is working for the critics.

    • romanesco

      Mind control, manipulation…they are the very “psychs” they claim to disdain. I think they know it on some level.

  • aegerprimo

    Mark Bunker’s Going Clear video of the showing at Palm Harbor, Florida….
    What I found most interesting at Tony’s note of the yell-fest at 18 minutes in – is the Freezoner.
    As an ex…. if I was in that audience, I would walk out at that point.

    • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

      The auditor? Yeah, I wanted to cheer for her at first. But when she went to the “the tech was great till Miscavige messed it up” well, I had to wince and throw a side-eye.

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Me too, but she was clear and made good points. I’ll give her a pass for now. She did a good job and was full of emotion.

      • Enturbulated Masterbator

        She was well spoken but I don’t respect emotions as they have no IQ.

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          Are you inferring because she still adheres to the TECH that she has a low IQ? I have no love for his twisted TECH myself, but it’s unfair to judge her in that way. After all, many folks end up clinging to their beloved TECH for quite a while after leaving the church, only to later peel that layer of the onion away as they better absorb the facts of Hubbard’s life and lies.

          • Enturbulated Masterbator

            No, I specifically don’t respect arguments whose basis is emotion. I prefer people use their intellect to argue a point and not the often quoted passion/ emotion angle. That’s all. I have no opinion about her using the tech.

    • PerpetualOutflow

      Give her time. She spent years and years training and auditing and trying to help people that way. She now feels betrayed in the worst way, and…well…she was. Now she needs to heal and slowly learn how very deep and far back that betrayal goes. Once she realizes that, she will be a force to be reckoned with. She has a brilliant and compassionate son who will help her.

      • aegerprimo

        You are right Perpetual.

  • FOTF2012

    Wow — early morning fireworks for breakfast for me! I appreciated the presenters’ response. I especially appreciated Mike Rinder’s emphasis that:
    1. Scientology is filled with good people who belief their aims are good. My experience too, overall.
    2. People can hold whatever religious beliefs they want. No one has to destroy Scientology.

    (I would add that while people are entitled to their own beliefs, they are _not_ entitled to their own facts ๐Ÿ™‚

  • April Moonlight

    OK, I just watched the “Going Clear Q&A” video with Mike Rinder and Sara Goldberg – I’m totally blown away, it answered every question I had as to why someone would get in, (wanting to better society, etc.) why they left, (seeing inconsistencies or harmful practices in the church, etc.) how the I.R.S. exemption came about and what affect it has on the public as a whole, why it’s harmful for everyone, etc.

    I thought both Mike and Sara spoke very clearly and eloquently, it was very informative, this should be required watching for everyone who is curious about Scientology.

    The only part of the video I found difficult to watch was the disruption by the active Scientologist – I was genuinely interested in what he had to say in response to Mike Rinder and Sara Goldberg, and had a totally open mind, willing to consider any valid points, but all I heard was personal attacks… “child support, stealing, etc.” that had nothing to do with the issues at hand. I guess he was trying to divert attention away from the issues, and/or make people think less of Mike Rinder & Sara Goldberg. It seemed as though he was trying to smear their characters, not to refute their points about Scientology. But this doesn’t work to convince people and it really made me think MORE negatively about Scientology than less, if this is a typical tactic they use. I don’t respect this approach. I wanted to hear his (the Scn church member’s) response to the issues, not personal attacks, that’s of no interest. But anyway, excellent video! I would pay to hear these two speak.. luckily it was free, lol.

    • Frodis73

      Well, you might want to hear a rational, measured defense from scientologists, but you won’t get it. The personal attacks are the only tactics they ever use because that is what Hubbard taught them. “Always attack, never defend” is the saying.
      Don’t hold your breath waiting for the church to answer you questions.
      eta-added personal to personal attacks

      • May I humbly suggest a slight edit to your last line?

        “Don’t hold your breath waiting for the church to provide a cogent, relative, on-point, or truly informative answer to your questions.”

        I see many answers from Karin but they fail to actually answer the question asked. Unless you consider he responses to be responses/replies …

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Welcome!

      Yes, smearing your critic is the standard playbook for Scientology.

      If you want to see it in full flower, look up their very “informative” Freedom Magazine website. And then take a long hot shower.

      • I so love Freedom Mag. The depths of irony it plumbs are beyond all reason.

        (PS: I use a body wash with high exfoliating qualities and still feel slimy after watching … any recommendations?)

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          Sand blasting…?

          • What grit grade? I’m thinking somewhere between skin polishing and bone cleaning.

    • aegerprimo

      Yes, I agree. Mike and Sara both answered the questions clearly and spoke eloquently.

    • salin

      That is Hubbard’s policy. Always attack, never defend. The indoctrination is intended to bring out personality changes that mirror the aggressive and vindictive characteristics that Hubbard valued. They were behaving according to that script.

  • Pierrot

    *** RED X +โ€“+ Reminder +โ€“+ RED X *** Saturday, 03 October 2015.

    Good day Bunkerettes and Bunkeroos,

    Wednesday 30th: NO SCORE.
    Thursday 1st: SFBay scraped in and saved the day
    Friday 2nd: SFBay scored a couple of hits

    RedX tips & Complaints procedure are included in the google doc under the RedXTips tab.
    Flag the lies, whack a few bait & switch ads : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-Kvg78kCcvo5gL7UfPcmhmbsagTNtdj0y2LAiHVFrCU/pubhtml

    F5โ€ฆ Butterfly by KYMG enhanced by DodoTheLaser for RedX, flickred by Aeger Primo https://www.flickr.com/photos/120371503@N05/16163991100/in/set-72157642802079293

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      Smacked Baton Rouge again. ๐Ÿ™‚

      • salin

        I hit midwest offenders – and Boston (because they offend me), but think I will go hit Baton Rouge as well.

  • Interested2

    I am just outside of Paris France at the moment getting my daily dose of Tony, late, ( thanks to 200 people storming the euro tunnel in Calais)
    This is an amazing video, and I would thank the wise bearded man as it is priceless.
    I have also been listening to the getting clear conference. I did not expect to learn so much. One thing that really stuck was the TM group being a dangerous cult. When I was in my early 20s, having broken my engagement on the day before my wedding, my mental state was not great. It was the 70s, and my doctor advised me to try TM. I look back now and realise that when asked to pray to some picture was perhaps not the right way to go. I did not realise that the strange word given to me so that I could use it to fall into a deep trance is in fact the name of a devil.
    I have to admit it helped, and still today when seriously stressed, I will use the technique. From now on I don’t know if I will.

    • Judith Sylvester

      I’ve had similar thoughts about TM. Although I’ve never made an equation between the mantra, and the devil. But I’ve thought about the state of mind that was induced by the mediation.

    • Kay

      Paris in the fall….(or Paris anytime) I am so jealous.

      • Interested2

        On to euro Disney…. Even more jealous (smile giggle)

    • pixie dust

      I tried it years ago also during a stressful time. Steve Hassan has great videos on his site about many cults, TM included. I can’t really remember my mantra and after seeing that info, I’m glad!

    • Missionary Kid

      You can certainly practice meditation without using TM.

      • Interested2

        Will certainly try now. I don’t need to call on a devil. Life is difficult enough.

        • Missionary Kid

          In a discussion of TM and its cult behavior, someone pointed out that there are many different ways of meditation, and that the picking of a mantra and the mystery sandwich surrounding its use is a big part of TM’s cultishness, and others chimed in with the information that there are many alternatives to TM’s type of meditation.

  • FollowTheMoney

    It’s clear that those scientologists were sent in to dead agent Mike Rinder. The point? To discredit him in front of the journalist he’s been working with. I think this shows that David Miscavige has a personal hatred for Mike, because he’s being so very effective in opposition. Wonderful to see the flunky howled down by some genuine outrage from the audience. Bet they didn’t expect that. The PI filming or photographing people made my blood boil. Given the possibility for harassment I think those events should ban the use of cameras and toss out anyone seen to be filming, WBM being an obvious exception.

    • Kay

      Well one thing I will say in favor of the Scientologist demonstrators who like to yell in people’s faces: at least they are just yelling, they’re not shooting at people thank heavens. At this point they are just annoying and ridiculous and I hope it stays that way.

      • FollowTheMoney

        When they yell in people’s faces its in the hope of provoking a physical response from the person they’re harassing. If they succeed they can have the person charged with assault, thereby proving Hubbards maxim that scientologys opponents are criminals. They also capture the interaction on film for evidence in court and also for their smear videos. Their reactions are very calculated.

        • Kay

          Probably true…but at least they’re not armed with anything. (that we know of)

    • Ella Raitch

      They are also used to capture footage that can be edited into more smear videos

  • outraged

    Great article on the gossip blog Celebitchy. They GET IT. totally. They back Tony, they know how Scientology does their doublespeak. They know the cult lies. And so do the commenters. Also has a lovely picture of Cathriona.

    http://www.celebitchy.com/450057/scientologist_its_bigotry_to_question_cathriona_whites_involvement_in_cos/

    pic:

    • outraged

      lovely picture of Cathriona. (What an unusual name.)
      I’m sure this is how she would like to be remembered:

    • salin

      The comment section is very interesting. Looks like the levy is approaching breech level.

      • Sibs

        I find it encouraging that somebody said “Lisa McPherson” and the next commenter Googled it.

        • salin

          Right. I believe ‘appalling’ or something to that effect was the posters post-Google response. Word has spread such that when interest is peaked there are more voices to memorialize – and spur action (seeking more information) on that peaked interest.

  • Eivol Ekdal

    I have watched/listened to the QA video about five times today. What a great job Guys!
    OT: Refresh for some pics of what I did while listening. Gluestick + Printer + Beer Mats =

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      Awww Eivol, you made a copy for Miscavige. You’re so sweet to make it perfect size for his hands. ๐Ÿ˜€

      • Juicer77

        And his reading level.

        Ba-dum-tish!

      • Kay

        laugh!

    • Miss Tia

      What a brilliantly creative thing you did there!! Perfect size for one of Fly’s legos! ๐Ÿ™‚

      • flyonthewall

        That is awesome. I was going to make a mini copy of scandal of scientology for the Cooper minifig but decided it would be cheating.

        • Miss Tia

          I respect your desire and ability to keep things ‘all lego’.

          • flyonthewall

            Can you imagine a little Sci diarama/dollhouse scene!? I would die

            • Miss Tia

              Um, I gotta email you soon about my xmas project, I thought of something I could possibly do with it ๐Ÿ˜‰ –but please don’t die!

            • flyonthewall

              eeee!!

            • Miss Tia

              shhhhh ๐Ÿ˜€ gotta finish my cleveland project first…..but i thought of something the other day that is possibly feasible for this years’ bunker chirstmas project of mine…..and you’re the ‘go to’ guy! ๐Ÿ™‚

            • flyonthewall

              so is “your” project in reality my project? lol

            • Miss Tia

              um, a little bit? let me send you a brief email to not leave you wondering……

            • flyonthewall

              smh *sigh* ok ๐Ÿ™‚ j/k

            • Miss Tia

              just sent!! sent it from my tia(at)misstia account….you SHOULD get it from there…..

            • Nat-leficent

              They should start a custom screenprinting on lego site.

    • beauty for ashes

      Lovely! I do love miniatures!

    • flyonthewall

      very very cool

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      That is so little and I need one!

    • Jimmy3

      Awesome

      • Eivol Ekdal

        “Tony, I Shrunk Your Book”

    • flyonthewall

      you should do a little diarama scene!

    • Observer

      That is brilliant!

    • ze moo

      How many thetans can dance on the head of pin?

      • salin

        As many as you can imagine.

    • Nat-leficent

      I WANT THIS TINY BOOK SO BAD! *clears throat* I mean — very nice ๐Ÿ˜‰

  • Juicer77

    I knew you were smart! ๐Ÿ˜‰

  • beauty for ashes

    Pink hearts are better than gray ones.
    Don’t forget to click the heart right under the number of comments.
    Photo by Beauty enhanced greatly by Nat<3! f5

    • Kay

      I lost my reading glasses a week ago, and have been squinting at my screen. I have seen this picture a couple of times during my “sans glasses” period and thought these were cheerios. Now I think they are donuts…are they, or do I need a stronger reading glass prescription? Laugh.

      • Kestrel

        I’m going with seashells.

        • Kay

          Really? Boy I DO need stronger glasses. (at least stronger than you can buy at the grocery store)

          • Kestrel

            Actually, they could be snail shells. (Had to put on my reading glasses.)

            • daisy

              They are seashells.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        You’re not alone. I’ve thought Cheerios too.

        • salin

          Me, too.

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            I think we’re just hungry.

            • salin

              Mm mm… Donuts.

          • Kay

            ๐Ÿ™‚

        • Kay

          I’m soooo relieved, no I don’t feel so silly.

      • beauty for ashes

        Oh I love the donuts idea! In florida there are these really common super tiny snails who leave shells all over your lawn. After I discovered them, I started just sitting in the grass and finding them everywhere. Now I’m trying to do something productive with them. I have quirky obsessions!

        • Kay

          Well living being a rocky mountain girl for most of my life I am not very conversant on seashells. (although I think they are very pretty) I can, however, point out a bear when I see one, which is sometimes a useful thing. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      We love you posting this Beauty. Thank you. It’s a good reminder, just like the Red X’ing reminders.

      • Kay

        I agree, I loved it even when I thought those WERE cheerios.

      • beauty for ashes

        I’m trying to make up for totally forgetting about the Going Clear showing and missing it. Good old catholic guilt!

  • anoni81b4u

    David Miscavige is always head and shoulders above all other mortal men.
    Unless the other men stand up

    • Missionary Kid

      Good one.

      • romanesco

        Actually, the poster is a real asshole.

        • anoni81b4u

          Sometimes people say things that are not nice.

          • romanesco
            • flyonthewall

              BAM!

            • Glen

              I don’t get this guy. He is so over the top homophobic, insulting and vile and seems to think he is making some sort of case. And then he shows up here and just kind of eases into the conversation. He turns my stomach.

            • Kay

              Whoa

            • Free Minds, Free Hearts

              Thank you romanesco. I flagged all this guy’s comments that day he was flaming an article (can’t remember where) with this misogynistic crap and personal attacks.

            • Kestrel

              Wow.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Wow is right. I saw it, too.

            • Sandy

              He continues to try to pretend he did not say these things to 3 (?) of the Bunker regulars. I saw it. You saw it. Yet, he comes here as if it never happened. And it went on for – was it 2 or 3 days? I thought it was a mean drunk episode at first. But, it lasted too long for that. pfft. done with this guy.

        • Missionary Kid

          I was commenting on the comment, not on anyone’s character.

    • outraged

      DM just shampoos with Head and Shoulders.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        I thought it was the International Association of Short Men. DM is the best at what he does.

    • romanesco
      • Jimmy3

        Blatantly acting like a hateful asshole is not epic trolling.

        • Kay

          Well said, J3

        • Jimmy3

          Epic trolling is like when I convinced Sally McLennane that she needed to sleep with me because there was a demon chasing me. Even she agreed that that was a great troll.

  • beauty for ashes

    Oh thank you ridiculous guy in the audience. You just said freedom mag dot org, and I laughed so loud and so forcefully that a flock of birds outside my window were frightened and took off en masse. *just kidding* (it was really really loud though!) Okay back to the video. I bet this guy knows some terrible, terrible things about Mike Rinder, that are soooo true I won’t believe it. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  • nottrue

    Scientology Graffiti…..

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      It certainly has the hallmarks of a $cilon smear campaign.

    • jazzlover

      This is always clear evidence to me that SciFi is not a church, not a religion, not helping humanity. I mean, can anyone imagine a religious leader like the Pope sending out henchmen to spray paint swastikas on Jewish temples? Or even doing something less hateful like sending out a nasty letter to a newspaper that publishes an opinion piece criticizing the Catholic Church?

      • Kestrel

        No, but I could see a religion (or a business) making a spokesperson available for interviews to explain their side of the story.

        Edited for grammar.

        • jazzlover

          Absolutely! But there’s always an ongoing story when world religions are criticized. Here, it a series of blips, bleeps, mini-fires and major arson. A SciFi spokesperson would really need to be on call 24/7/365. That should be another sign that something’s amiss. If the picture up above is really the work of hateful “church” members. I’d like to see the 2 therapists in question have the guts to push it as a “hate crime” with authorities, who tend to pay more attention when those are alleged.

          • salin

            On the other hand it might be an angry, unstable person with a grudge.

            • jazzlover

              Yes, that’s why I said “if”. Of course, there’s really no way of knowing for sure.

          • Kestrel

            I would, too, but the therapists will need evidence of who did it.

            • jazzlover

              Therein lies the problem. But if they did have evidence (video or pictorial), and a tie-in to the cherch could be made, I suspect that such an investigation would garner serious attention from the world-wide public at large. It could end up bringing a whole lot of new trouble for SciFi which could help to have it seen for what it really is. It could also get the psychiatric community to be more outspoken than it has been. If you think about it, they lay pretty low when the subject of SciFi comes up. It always seems to be the “elephant in the room” that they don’t really want to address.

              I am NOT trying to manufacture anything. I am just thinking aloud.

            • Frodis73

              The reason the psych community is so quiet when it comes to scientology is because most of them don’t even *know* they are hated by sci’s or that CCHR even exists. That’s how little impact the sci’s have on the psychs.
              There are so few sci’s in the world that I highly doubt they did the graffiti…it was prob kids goofing off. I’d put money on it being anoni81b4u before I’d bet it was scis!

            • jazzlover

              I have a friend that is a psychiatrist who won’t give it a minute’s time anytime I’ve brought it up. All I get is kind of a knowing smirk. It’s possible that he just ignores them because not doing so would give them credence in his eyes. I’m really not sure, and I don’t wanna keep pushing it. Some doctors also tend to have a certain way of seeing things that is different than how the rest of us see things. I can only guess that has something to do with medical school training.

    • romanesco

      Maybe it was anoni81b4u.

      • jazzlover

        Not really funny, but LOL ๐Ÿ™‚

        • Frodis73

          No, it’s funny.

          • jazzlover

            I was trying to be sensitive to those that he attacked and hurt ๐Ÿ™‚ But yes, I agree.

            • Frodis73

              I’m one of the people he went after.

            • jazzlover

              I’m sorry about that. He needs to be banned. Of course, he’d come back with a different name, and be figured out again.

            • Frodis73

              Thankfully most of the Bunkers know his true colors.

            • anoni81b4u

              I need to be banned ?
              What rule did I break ?
              lets all walk goose stepping to your song

    • Observer

      Whoa

  • Kay

    Does anyone know who the woman in the audience is who said she was an auditor for 25 years ?

    • Tony Ortega
      • Sandy

        deleted comment is mine. I did not expect his mom to be an Indy, is all I meant.

        • aegerprimo

          Yeah. It seems she has a strong addiction to the Kool-Aid.

      • Kay

        Wow…..that was a surprise. Thanks.

      • aegerprimo

        Video screenshot…..

      • beauty for ashes

        That is a beautifully written story. My goose bumps have goose bumps.
        (click the heart if you visit)

      • Nobly

        She was wonderful. She spoke from her heart, a clear and concise truth that the interlopers didn’t want to hear, let alone listen to. It was amazing to hear her extemporaneous beat down.

  • Suppressive Tomato

    Is it just me or is Davey looking kind of Liberace fabulous as he ages?

    • Kay

      Yes he is. I expect he runs around his compound in heavily sequined capes these days.

      • BraveBloggers

        I was thinking of the outfit as well. If I was talented enough I’d shoop a white satin suit and cape with rhinestones and sparklies just for the full visual.

    • Liberace and Ronnie Reagan’s love toddler.

    • Observer

      Not just you.

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Slaperace anyone?

    • Nat-leficent

      F5

      • Frodis73

        Gawd, I’m scared.

    • OTVIIIisGrrr8!
      • jazzlover

        I think you forgot the bedazzled set of 88s ๐Ÿ˜‰

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      I always have this one loaded up:

  • Edward Whalley

    Second point: Interesting how one person giving a monologue constitutes a “Congress”. Or that listening to an hour or more of word salad gives anyone clarity on anything. Of course, after getting hatted as a student you probably understand a lot more than I can.

    • Suppressive Tomato

      Once you as-is the not-isness you’ve postulated on your understandingness, it makes a lot more sense.

      • salin

        Upright, factual and vertical clarity.

    • Yeppir

      “Getting hatted.” That’s just fucking annoying. Ok. Carry on.

      • Kay

        Whenever I hear the term “getting hatted”, this always comes to my mind: (probably because the term “student hat” is so stupid, and so is this)

        • aegerprimo

          Oh my hat!
          ………….

    • FollowTheMoney

      Do the courses include becoming an asshat?

    • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

      Congresses of “body thetans” infesting Hubbard, like all humans are infested with tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of body thetans. Thanks to Xenu’s engram.

  • beauty for ashes

    Wow. Mike Rinder says some really insightful things. Both he and Sara seem after they got out, they had to do a lot of soul searching and repair. I was broken hearted when Sara introduced her ex, and let him speak. Not an ounce of love from that man. You know?
    Oh and I just have to say that the woman with the really long hair must have the biggest strongest heart. Cause she spoke straight from it, and man did it boom. <3

    • Kay

      Yes that lady was impressive….

  • order66

    OK, I finally get to watch the video now that ROH Wrestling is over (priorities). First thought: that old man starts hollering to go to FreedomMag. You mean the website I tried to look at once out of curiosity and for a good laugh and my anti-malware software went absolutely crazy warning me to stay away? Sure, grandpa, I’ll take a look at a site that turns my computer into an expensive paperweight because getting a friend to rid my PC of malware because I know less about computers than the Amish is always so much fun.

    Next thought: That old guy proves that even as scientology falls, even as the cult continues to shoot itself in the foot until now it has nothing left below the knees, they simply cannot change. I used to be infuriated by their behavior, and when it comes everything the Diminutive One does, oh yeah, I feel like turning big and green and looking for something to smash. But when I see a display like the one the old guy put on, I can’t even get mad at them anymore. I find it’s getting hard for me to laugh at them. I’m starting to feel pity for scientologists like that man in the video. Whether the cult goes out with a whimper or a bang, life is going to be hard for people like him.

    Last: Rinder mentioned Westboro Baptist. This Thursday, they’ll be a couple of miles from my apartment, picketing at the National Weather Center in Norman, Oklahoma. I have no idea why; maybe they think the weather is gay? Probably a good thing I have to work that, day because if I was off, I’d probably want to go and have a chat with them.

    • Kay

      They seriously are picketing the National Weather Service ??? That is hilarious. Maybe they don’t like their views on global warming, or maybe they think some of the names of Hurricanes are suspiciously gay-sounding….

      • Kay

        Well, here you go:

      • order66

        I think they have a problem with the mainstream media’s reporting on global warming. I don’t know; ever since Phelps died they can’t really seem to get out a clear message anymore. I have a conservative streak myself, so I’m no fan of most of the media (I don’t like Fox News either, so there’s that), but, really Westboro? You’re not even making sense anymore.

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          Are you serious? I thought it was gays they were against, and I always think of them picketing the funerals of servicemen and women. It is global warming now, for real? They do have a problem with their direction, don’t they?

        • Kay

          Yes, they apparently are grasping for straws.

      • aegerprimo

        Latest hurricane…. Joaquin… not your typical white heterosexual name like Joe or Jim. LOL.

        • Kay

          ๐Ÿ™‚

    • aegerprimo

      Westboro Baptists are still around? I have not see press about them here….
      http://www.cultnews.net/index.php

      • Kay

        I thought maybe they’d disappear when their old pastor died, but they are still around, although their numbers are smaller I believe. (they were pretty small to begin with)

        • aegerprimo

          Thank goodness they do not have the funds that the Co$ has.
          Oh yeah, Scientology is a dangerous cult as well. A rich dangerous cult.

          • Kay

            That’s really true…..I would shudder to see a well-funded Westboro group.

    • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

      The Illuminati control the weather via chemtrails.

      The Illuminati are Psychs, and, as discussed yesterday, the Psychs are all gay because they come from the gay planet Farsec.

      Therefore, Gay Psychs control the weather and that is why Westboro Baptist is protesting at the National Weather Center in Norman, Oklahoma.

      We in the Church of Scientology are planning on sending our elite “Going Clear Theater Assault Team” (GCTAT) to give Westboro a hand; this assuming we do not need to redeploy them that night to another theater.

      • order66

        OK, it all makes sense now.

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        Thank you for clarifying.

      • aegerprimo

        Thanx for putting this news in the proper perspective. ๐Ÿ˜‰

        • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

          The Scientologist is the only one who can help at the scene of a conspiracy theory.

          • True Fact.

          • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

            Also, the only ones who can “help” at the reading of a will.

            • Observer

              Poor Casey Kasem. ๐Ÿ™

            • order66

              I know there was a hell of a controversy when he passed, but please refresh my memory.

            • Observer

              Fight over his body between his nutty wife and his Scilon daughter, who even started an anti-elder-abuse organization ( http://www.kasemcares.com/ which, of course, takes donations). Jean Kasem was cleared of the elder abuse charges trumpeted far and wide by the clam daughter Kerri. I don’t think I ever heard that his other two kids said anything in the media–not that they’d have been able to get a word in edgewise with Kerri shrieking at the press like a long-winded banshee.

            • order66

              Thank you, I remember that story now. Few things can tear apart a family like the passing of a member of that family. It’s bad enough when it happens in a normal family; I can’t imagine how horrific it would be if scientology was a factor.

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              I know. ๐Ÿ™ That man deserved better than the cat fight that went on over his corpse & his money. I am fairly certain that he wouldn’t have wanted his family behaving that way. Sucks to know that anything his daughter gets her hands on will go straight to fund Daves retirement stash. SMH

          • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

            Scientologists are just trying Hubbard’s failed enlightenment lame exorcism child’s play which won’t help earth’s citizens who are all just a bunch of amnesia tranced dumb souls (still full of unrealized more “body thetans”).

            When the “guys up there”, the Marcabians, when they return to see how earth’s been doing these last 5-10,000 years since the Marcabian’s last earth survey, they are the ones who will wise earthlings up, when the Marcabians return!

            Hubbard admitted he failed.

            We’re left to muddle through, and woe be to us.

            Maybe Capt Bill 2 will show up soon with some new plans!

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Ah, I get it now. They don’t believe in weather forecasting. “WBC announced on their Twitter page that on October 8, from 8:30 a.m. to 9:30 a.m., they will picket the โ€œdoomedโ€ journalists and the Weather Center to โ€œremind them that ONLY by Godโ€™s mercy and power do you gather intelligence on His weather.โ€ http://kfor.com/2015/09/29/controversial-westboro-baptist-church-plans-to-picket-ou-national-weather-center/

      • Kay

        “Thou Shalt Not Predict The Weather” hahahahahahaha

      • Kay

        HEY….maybe that protestor in the video that kept extending his hand, looking like he was trying to invoke a biblical event, was ACTUALLY gathering intelligence on the weather !

      • order66

        As a lifelong resident of Oklahoma, I know that God created this state because He needed a place for weather experiments. Forty degrees in the morning, ninety in the afternoon, Ice storms on Monday, tornadoes on Tuesday. It makes sense that people who want to study the weather would do their work here.

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          Well they SHOULDN’T!

      • Kay

        They don’t believe in predicting the weather, but they believe in using Twitter?

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          ROFL

        • Frodis73

          IKR? So frickin’ funny.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Predicting the weather is evil. You should just let God send that tornado through your trailer park and then hope He’s ready to receive your mortal soul.

      • order66

        That’s not too far off from what we do around here. We’re so used to tornadoes tearing through in the spring that when the sirens go off, everyone goes outside to look around. We seek shelter only if a) we see it coming at us or b) the weather man on TV bluntly says quit looking for it and get underground now.

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          I had friends in Oklahoma. I remember spending a lovely Spring day on the tennis court, when a sudden storm front moved across town. Everyone stood out in their tennis whites, speculating on whether the funnels would touch down or not.

          • order66

            Sounds about right.

    • Frodis73

      The weather *is* gay…didn’t you know? Think about it…rainbows! LOL.

  • EnthralledObserver

    Apologies if it’s already been mentioned:

    But… shouldn’t $cientology have been able to help Kate with that? Oops…

    http://www.9news.com.au/national/2015/10/04/08/53/kate-ceberano-blows-national-anthem-in-front-of-100000-footy-fans

    • Cars

      Maybe it helped her after all… (f5)

      • jazzlover

        I just fell off my chair ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Stage, page, shmage.

      Word Clear, model it in clay, and invite everyone back to savor the Win.

  • Jimmy3

    Green vs. Orange tonight. Stay safe. Love you peoples.

    • Sandy

      who are we watching?

      • Jimmy3

        Notre Dame – Clemson

        • Sandy

          thx. who we got?

          • Jimmy3

            …We root for the Irish. But they’re already down by 14 early. Now we delete all our comments and switch to Project Runway.

            • Sandy

              ๐Ÿ™‚ never the less – I will turn over to that game. Go Jimmy, – I mean Irish.

            • Sibs

              Nooooooo, we root against the Irish! “Fight ooooooon for ol’ school-that’s-in SC!”

            • Jimmy3

              This is false, inaccurate information.

            • Sibs

              Well, if ND loses to Clemson, it will help alleviate the crushing pain and sorrow from USC ultimately raining on their post-season chances.

            • salin

              Lol. Love ND as a school! Not so much the football.

            • Sandy

              I luv college football! So, I adopt teams!

            • Sandy

              I was SO into Indiana today! Fuck Ohio.

            • Jimmy3

              The Buckeyes looked terrible. Urban Meyer didn’t want to take Jones out just to prove a point. Because he said he wouldn’t. I would’ve had Barrett in there by the 2nd quarter.

            • Sibs

              But that was all the telecast commentators would talk about, was “Urban Meyer doesn’t trust his quarterback to pass the ball, so they’re going to run it again.”

            • Jimmy3

              I know. But Zeke is a talent. Look at the rushing yards from first half to second. I would just play JT Barrett. More options to move the ball.

            • Sibs

              I don’t like OSU but I’ll admit that is true. He was a beast in the second half.

            • Jimmy3

              I do like OSU, and I’ll admit we have no business being the #1 ranked team. I think the Big Ten is fucking weak this year. I watched Michigan score only 6 points in one half vs. an unranked Maryland. I saw Purdue almost beat the #2 ranked Michigan State. That came down to a last minute play. Ohio State has looked sketchy even against MAC teams.

              It’s not looking good.

            • salin

              Chuckle… As one from Bloomington… I relish hearing anyone outside of IU world saying they were into Indiana football!

            • Sandy

              Gawd – that was a game I was SO into! it was fun

  • Susan black

    With Going Clear and mike and Sara to show up on miscavige’s turff

  • Susan black

    Oops, wasnt finished. Sorry. Will finish and send ๐Ÿ™‚

  • richelieu jr

    “STUDENT HAT c o u r s e”

    Chapter One:
    “H-A-T”
    Your first MU (Misunderstood Word). You think it means something you wear on your head!

    Silly Wog! (W-O-G)

    ‘HAT’ means ‘Job’ in wog-talk! Your HAT is your responsibilities! (See? Already we can’t keep plural/singular e straight, can we?)

    WRONG! It is YOU who are mistaken, because LRH said a ‘HAT’ was a ‘JOB’, and so you suck.*

    If your girlfriend doesn’t think your hat is a job, or perhaps that your HAT doesn’t pay enough here at the ORG (“Church'” in wog-talk)perhaps you should say to her, “Here’s your ‘Job’, honey– What’s your hurry?” and usher her out the door and out of your life (Jobs for women are going out of fashion this season anyways!).

    *(And speaking of sucking, keep this under your ‘job’ but those other jobs are what DM gives OHB… HE doesn’t get paid for it either, but he’s getting better and doesn’t need knee pads, so there’s that!)

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      So, if your wife confuses your job with your hat…

      (refresh)

      • beauty for ashes

        That’s actually a textbook isn’t it? I think I’m getting old because I’m getting deja vu from this book and asking myself did I read this? I remember gasping at old people when they said something like that. Like~ How can you not remember that you saw this movie before until halfway through?

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          Not sure if it is a text book– but it could be used in a classroom setting.

          • Kay

            It’s not a textbook, but is a very interesting book about caring for psychiatric patients. He is the doctor portrayed in “Awakenings” by Robin Williams. (which is a true story about him as well) He and Robin Williams looked amazingly alike. Dr. Sachs just died of cancer recently…there are some really great articles written by him in the New York Times over the past year about his struggle with cancer and other topics.

            • Free Minds, Free Hearts

              He had some very insightful articles about approaching death,

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        I already miss Oliver Sacks.

      • richelieu jr

        The sadly regretted Dr Sacks…

  • Alex De Valera

    “Read freedom mag” yes, read freedom mag and you”ll see how disgusting it is. It is the utmost demonstration of bad taste. It is so ridiculous and of course the is no discussion on anything just slander and character assassination because of one reason, they cannot discuss anything on the merits so they use personal attacks. Mike and Sara, you are great, brave, caring people and we are lucky to have you. Thank you for speaking out. Thank you for standing tall against the cult of greed.

    • Sibs

      There is no room for interpretation in $cientology as a whole. Maybe after a certain point the $cilons can’t tell what a rational discussion looks like. (speaking as a never-in)

  • Susan black

    With going clear and mike and Sara showing up in miscavige’s turf, our favorite little guy saw red! So he sent his two proxies to shoot up the place with footbullets, which only gave the rest of us a delicious little slice of scientology craziness.

    I wish (hey, it’s my birthday) there was a permanent place in Clearwater, as close as possible to ground zero for the cherch, where exes and never ins but interested, could meet up to discuss all things scientology. This would have been taboo not too long ago, but not any more. This wonderful place (in my mind) might even attreact some lonely and hungry sea orgers. Just imagining the reaction of dm to such a place makes me feel warm and fuzzy.

    • Observer

      Happy birthday! Have some caek:

      • jazzlover

        Xenu’s starting to look a little like Casper without sleep ๐Ÿ˜‰

        • Susan black

          Uh, what’s that brown stuff that makes up his eyes and spells out xenu?

          • jazzlover

            Those are dark feces-infused circles under his eyes ๐Ÿ˜‰

      • Susan black

        I’m in awe of this caek. Please, all of you who came to the bunker tonight to help celebrate my birthday (heh, heh) have a slice. I’ll pour the champagne!

    • jazzlover
    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Happy birthday Susan! And what a great idea!

      • Susan black

        Oops, I lied about the birthday…my cheeks are pink.

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          Oh no ! Okay you need to save the song and caek for your real birthday then, but you still had a great idea.

    • Lurkness

      Happy Birthday!

      Such a center was once the Lisa McPherson Trust, now the Disneyfied dissemination centers of the Chult. With their fair game tactics and the city’s (witting and unwitting) accomplices, it would be difficult to do and maintain. Not to mention their camera coverage would prevent any Scientologists from going there unless they were blowing in a breakaway akin to scaling the Berlin Wall.

      • Susan black

        I was thinking that with so many spotlights now focused on catching the cherch in its lies and misdeeds that it would be hard to keep such a place out of clearwater. But you’re probably right..lotsa accomplices in lotsa places…:0(

    • Happy Birthday, Susan!

    • noseinabk

      Happy Birthday. Keep making those wishes.

      http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/maud_d/Birthday-kitty.jpg

      • noseinabk

        Ha. I just read further down. Its all good, you take the kitty and give me that cupcake and we will pretend this never happened. ;-D

        • Susan black

          Sorry, ate the cupcake. :(. But won’t you try a piece of the lovely xenu caek?

    • Susan black

      Hey everybody, thanks for all the great birthday wishes! Kittehs and caek! The Beatles singing, just to ME! I’m so tickled by all the attention. Why, omg, its just like its my real birthday, only better. :0)

  • Michael Leonard Tilse

    That student hat photo looks like Connor MacLeod finally learns to study just before the gathering…

    • Observer

      There can be only one!

  • PerpetualOutflow

    Anyone have a list of clam consultants operating out of the Clearwater area–e.g. business coaches, life coaches, executive recruiters, resume writers, PR people, graphic designers?

    • jazzlover

      I keep chuckling while imagining Krustie as a life coach ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Eivol Ekdal

      Wikileaks has a “WISE Directory 2006”

      • PerpetualOutflow

        Thanks!

        • Eivol Ekdal

          Bear in mind many of those people will be out or ‘under the radar’.

    • Online Scientologist directory for Clearwater:
      http://www.wordofmouthdirectory.biz/

  • Joe

    Wow, I loved watching Sara go full mama grizzly on her deadbeat ex. She is so sweet, but man I would hate to be on her bad side. I was like, “Gurl, you can get it!”

    I also love how well-spoken Mike Rinder is. He is a very gifted orator which is probably why he was the face of the organization for so long. It’s great to see him putting his talents to something he is so passionate about.

    I really laughed out loud at the two goons who tried to sway the crowd. First of all, the entire theater was having NONE of it. As soon as his true colors showed they were clear they wanted none of his nonsense and just wanted both of them to leave. One thing that I get and I think most people get and somehow Scientology doesn’t get is that you can put out all the videos and magazines you want, but if it’s clear (or after a little digging it obvious) the source of the “real story” is Scn itself, no one is going to buy it. All their so-called vindicating information is from themselves and at this point everyone knows they just aren’t trustworthy enough to vouch for themselves anymore. They can’t point to any independent journalistic source or governmental investigation exonerating anything they’ve done so they can pimp Freedom Gag all they want, it’s not going to change a thing.

    • FollowTheMoney

      I think gen public is becoming savvier about scientologys PR playbook, deny everything accuse others of lies and crimes, and treating it with the disdain it deserves.

      Although it was satisfying to see the audience shouting down the grubby smears made by the Scientology flunky, part of me wishes the moderator had kept the attention (and WBM’s camera) on him. He claimed Sara and Mike had told lies. I would have liked the moderator to have asked him to specify EXACTLY what falsehoods had been spoken and what evidence he had to back that up. Scientology spokespeople, as the flunky obviously was, are rarely put on the spot and asked to provide evidence of their generic accusations. I’d love to see more of that captured on vid.

      • Joe

        Yeah, Mike summed it up best as Footbullet 101, because they do EXACTLY what movies like Going Clear and journalists like Tony say they’re going to do and it backfires spectacularly.

        I bet you if the moderator did he would have either (1) said they lied about everything, because f course and/or (2) kept on the personal attacks to distract from the issue.

      • Frodis73

        I agree-it would be so awesome to see them called out by somebody that really knows what is going on and what questions to ask.

    • richelieu jr

      Well, the Silver-Haired Fux started w-ith anopening, of– I was just with his wife and child..’

      • noseinabk

        They keep aping the bad behavior of petty little bitch Miscavige and never realize that it is that bullying that creates new protesters and critics.

  • Nat-leficent

    Well I agree with that bit

    F5

    • Sibs

      No holds barred, LRH, boom! Right between the eyes! As he knocks you out and steals your wallet!

      • Nat-leficent

        Or could be read as knocking LRH between the eyes XD

        • Sibs

          Karate chop right between the eyes! Boom!

    • Someone should tell him that the studio is on fire.

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        (I think he’s blowing hot air out both ends…!)

        • Boom, right between the thighs?

      • Kay

        Laugh !

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    I have been wanting to do this all day, but I was working. (I am apparently one of the bitter, employed bloggers on the fringes of the internet).

    Personally, I think that Student Hat guy just looks kinda hungry:

    (refresh)

  • Just finished watching the video. Sarah, Mike, Mark, Tony – thank you. That’s all. Oh, Go Leah!

    • beauty for ashes

      I keep singing to myself Britney spears song “womanizer” but substituting “Troublemaker, troublemaker, I’m a troublemaker,” every time I hear mention of Leah or her book. I’m a little geeked out excited about it. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • salin

      October is here. Going Clear back in theaters, and released on video; last night’s fine event a preview for the month. Thoreaux doc. Debut. Tony Down Under. End of month Leah promos and press in advance of her books publication. And Halloween. Welcome October!

  • flyonthewall
    • Nat-leficent

      That was decent till the bagpipe sol X(

      • jazzlover

        roflmao. Nuthin’ like an annoying set of bagpipes to ruin a perfectly good song. Second only to an accordian ๐Ÿ™‚

        • Panopea Abrupta

          Unless you get Paddy Keenan playing the pipes ๐Ÿ™‚
          The Hendrix of Irish piping.
          He refused a gig on “Let It Be” or you might have heard of him.
          This was a lament for his dad who died suddenly.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9zURaG8SFs

          • jazzlover

            Yes, very beautiful AND framed in the proper context. That may indeed to be key. Never try to fit a square peg into a round hole, even in music. That being said, I’m sure you can imagine that I’ve heard many an unusual instrument work in jazz — oud, violin, cello among many others. I’ve even heard this guy play a bagpipe or three (without even mentioning the mighty Rahsaan, king of simultaneous playing of reed instruments, including something called a stritch):

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmaicurzPb0

          • salin

            Beautiful.

      • Whatever those were, they weren’t bagpipes.

        • Nat-leficent

          Dead cats with flutes up their butts?

          • Frodis73

            Rofl!

          • beauty for ashes

            <3 <3 <3. I can't even tell you the scenario that went on as my brain tried to wrap itself around this idea. Are you too young to remember 101 uses for dead cats?

    • Ella Raitch

      Aussie clasic -my sister saw them live recently was very upset they didn’t play this song

    • Miss Tia

      Good tune!!! Good band!

    • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu1k-6kAUao

      So want to try some of this, and there are hacks available for Canon cameras to do it, but my camera’s 3V power plug is made of total unobtainium.

      • beauty for ashes

        For realz? Unobtainium?…*she asks cautiously waiting for someone to make fun of her**

        • They used a custom thin plug that no one else has heard of, and they’ve probably forgotten about. Someday I’m going to pull it apart and solder my own connector on it.

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    We are rapidly approaching that magic moment when Bunker comments pass 1,000.

    Now, about that Heart…

    • Well … I already helped with the heart … so here’s another contribution towards 1000

  • Nat-leficent

    • salin

      Here is one context where the pig isn’t snorting – and is sorta cute – unlike the Scieno “win” videos:

      https://youtu.be/5_sfnQDr1-o

  • There’s something off about the perspective of this picture. It looks as though his arms are disproportionately longer than the rest of his body, evidenced by how small his head/body are compared to his hands and that goofy binder book.

    http://tonyortega.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/SciStudentHat.jpg

    • salin

      Not to mention that the book/binder is much wider than his body. The perspective is quite odd.

    • Always Amazed

      It looks like someone else is holding the book.

    • beauty for ashes

      Total Bossypants vibe! f5

      • jazzlover

        Hey, my daughter just read that as part of pre-11th grade summer reading. She liked it! Of course, I was happy enough that it kept her off social media for a few minutes. LOL

      • Exactly!

    • It’s caused by a very wide-angle lens used much too close, which distorts perspective in that way.

  • Observer

    Kitteh pic of a different sort

    • beauty for ashes

      I’d be really excited about the cat part! lol
      I wonder if it’s a spirit cat looking out for the baby? O o

      • jazzlover

        Photobombing an ultrasound. Makes it a cat-scan of the highest order.

        • beauty for ashes

          Good One Jazz!

          • jazzlover

            Thank you, beauty!

    • madame duran

      Looks ominous. The Cat of Rosemary’s Baby (instant horror film title!).

      • beauty for ashes

        I seriously wish I knew how to mock up a tabloid cover. or a film poster. It’s genius!

    • Kay

      Aha….the dreaded intrauterine kitty cat……be scared, very scared.

      • beauty for ashes

        Y’all are too funny tonight!

        • Kay

          ๐Ÿ™‚

  • I don’t know who that 26-year auditor Sarah is, but she is fabulous. Those two jackasses demonstrate so very well that $cientologists don’t argue very well – but they’re utterly typical angry parrots of bullshit propaganda. Anyone with a mind above the level of a wharf rat would realize the difference between those clams and the Going Clear speakers in a heartbeat.

    • PerpetualOutflow

      I think our Proprietor said it was Aaron’s mother, no?

    • Joe

      It’s interesting to see because it seems she’s one of those people who still believes in the tech, but was so disgusted by the abuse of power that she left.

      and honestly, if holding tin cans and talking about your past gives you spiritual satisfaction then I say mazel tov.

      • They’re quite unfortunate because they don’t investigate and find out they’re mostly just doing abreaction with Dianetics and a lot of the other stuff is hypnotism. The saddest social event I’ve attended in the last decade was “Auditor’s Day” last year, which I wrote about. One guy I knew a long time ago told me “LRH audited me in my last life, so nothing can take that away from me!” And John “Magic Thetan” Rafanello blathering to the group about being in “theta comm” with people on other planets. It’s a pathetic crowd, man. They’re using stuff stolen, devised, or bought from hypnotists and packaged by a crazed, sexually-confused, drug-swilling alcoholic madman. I don’t know how you square that with reality, but maybe they just don’t.

        • Joe

          Yeah, I think some people just stick with what works with them without really thinking about the implications behind it. Sad.

          • Most “field” auditors that I’ve met never learned to make a living doing anything else.

  • madame duran

    I just noticed a new feature on Twitter. Next to the usual “Reply”, “Retweet” and “Favourite” icons, there’s a mini bar graph symbol where users can find out Tweet activity stats for individual posts. It measures 2 main things: Impressions (# of times people saw your tweet on Twitter) and Engagements (# of times people interacted with your tweet such as favoriting, retweets, replies, clicks on hashtags/profile/web links and detail expands). It’s a nice tool for knowing the popularity of a given comment. Users can only see the tweet activity for their own tweets, not those belonging to others.

    Just sharing in case anyone was curious or interested.

    • jazzlover

      Of course, something like # of engagements may not necessarily be a good thing. Check Kirstie for that.

  • Cars

    Alex Gibney has heard about and seen last night’s Q&A video.

    https://twitter.com/alexgibneyfilm/status/650493354208284672

    and so has Leah Remini.

    https://twitter.com/LeahRemini/status/650403882221219840

    • Ella Raitch

      ** waves to Robert **

      • jazzlover

        Yes, absolutely. A really intelligent guy. Wish he’d come back.

        • daisy

          Any idea why he left? He was here almost daily, when I got here.

          • jazzlover

            Not sure. It may have involved a misunderstanding about “making points”.

            What about Longtime Lurker? He seemed like a good bloke ๐Ÿ™‚

            • daisy

              Not sure, wish he would come back too.

            • Todd Tomorrow

              You must be kidding me is LL gone again?

            • jazzlover

              I haven’t seen him. Have you?

            • Todd Tomorrow

              No, but he left for six month’s prior to his recent return after an altercation with somebody.

            • jazzlover

              Does he have a penchant for altercating? ๐Ÿ˜‰

            • Todd Tomorrow

              No, but I haven’t been around a great deal. I’ll send you a note to your email(disques) later.

            • jazzlover

              I didn’t realize that was doable. My acct details are hidden, so I’ll be impressed if you could pull it off ๐Ÿ™‚

            • Todd Tomorrow

              How did you get this last message?

            • jazzlover

              Via alert by clicking on the red numbered circle at top right. I’m not opening myself up to one of those moronic anonymous dudes again, btw.

            • Todd Tomorrow

              Oh, when someone leaves a comment on any day it lets me know and I can read it. That’s all I was going to do. Not a big deal, anyway…

            • jazzlover

              Ok. I thought you meant sending me a PM.

          • Free Minds, Free Hearts

            Robert Hammod is around on Twitter all the time. He is a great guy – I met him in SF in May at the famous Jamie deWolfe/Tony/Paulette brouhaha!

            • beauty for ashes

              Jealous, I bet he’s a charmer.:)

            • jazzlover

              He’s “in the biz” as they say, and very interested in taking SciFi down.

            • Free Minds, Free Hearts

              Well, he was with his wife, who is lovely!

            • beauty for ashes

              Aww shucks. I bet!

            • daisy

              I also really liked him. He was very patient with all my questions. I really appreciated it.

    • noseinabk

      Thanks for posting these Cars. I would never see them otherwise.

      • Cars

        You are very welcome. It is my pleasure.

    • Supper Powers

      I miss Robert.

      • Kay

        Why did he stop posting here?

        • Supper Powers

          He should probably answer that.

      • May_West

        Me too. Anything he posted was well thought out and worth reading. His intelligence is obvious..

      • aquaclara

        Me, too.

  • nottrue

    That bum didn’t pay his child support. Deadbeat dad Sara’s ex

    • Joe

      I would bet you money there was a direct order handed down that he wasn’t allowed to. Not saying he’d be excited to do so in the first place as any non-custodial parent is, but I have a feeling he’d be put in ethics (am I saying that right?) if he did so.

      But as someone said in the crowd, it is a crime in Florida to willfully not pay child support so I hope Sara goes after him for that.

      • jazzlover

        Confused. Are you saying any non-custodial parent is OR isn’t excited?

        • Joe

          Non-custodial parents usually aren’t excited to pay child support. Not that they don’t want to support their children, but usually they don’t like having to pay it to the custodial parent as they have their own disagreements.

          • jazzlover

            I can tell you from personal experience that the whole reason for “lack of excitement” is a complete and utter failing of the family court system in this country. It has refused to evolve, and that is shameful, to say the least. The pitting of one spouse against another seems almost purposeful.

            • Joe

              Agreed.

    • Child support, IAS suppport. Tough choices.

      • noseinabk

        The heartbreaking thing is that some would even ponder the decision.

        • aquaclara

          Exactly. Just one more heartbreaking thing about Scientology. Sheesh. They need to look in a mirror. Or go to more events with nonmembers, so they hear the boos.

    • noseinabk

      According to scientology it was the ethical thing to do. When money means good stats, money given to the church makes you more ethical than money given to taking care of your own children.

  • Anyone seen Vaquera lately?

    • Observer

      She was here last night

  • Nat-leficent

    I need a lighthearted topic suggestion please

    • daisy

      False teeth

      • Nat-leficent

        Thank you.

    • beauty for ashes

      poop jokes?

    • Sibs

      Cute kittens are always lighthearted!

    • Comfy blankets.

      • jazzlover

        YES. Damp, dank Fall nights are brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

    • jazzlover

      Playing bagpipes with false teeth?

    • Kay

      Menopause

    • Kay

      Menopause with false teeth

    • Kay

      Going through menopause with false teeth, while holding a kitten, needing a ceiling fan to cool off, trying not to poop yourself whilst talking with your grandmama. (did I include everyone?)

      • Ex-Christian Scientist

        …while playing bagpipes cuddled in comfy blankets! ๐Ÿ™‚

        • Kay

          Oh Dayum….missed that.

          • Ex-Christian Scientist

            LOL! ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Kay

      Actually I do have something a little lighthearted, and kind of interesting since this is a cat-loving crowd. I live in the mountains so I am used to critters of all kinds. The other night I was sleeping with my window open and I swore I heard what sounded like a 200 lb. kitty purring. It was so loud I thought the windows were shaking. (there is a steep hill in back of my bedroom that usually has raccoons, squirrels and such and it’s so steep that part of it is directly across from my 2nd story window) Anyway, I was so startled that the only thing I could think of to do was to google “Large animals that purr” (You know, when all else fails in possible life-threatening situations, of course one should google things) To my astonishment, I found out that mountain lions (which are common here) are the one species of large wild cats that actually purr. Who knew?

      • Ex-Christian Scientist

        I assume you slammed that window shut! ๐Ÿ˜€

        • Kay

          YES….and made sure all of my dogs were all inside of the house.

          • Ex-Christian Scientist

            Phew! ๐Ÿ˜€

            • Kay

              Yes, I’m glad I was not outside at the time, and that my dogs weren’t. Beings cats, they are very stealthy hunters I’m sure.

            • Ex-Christian Scientist

              Sheesh! Glad you’re all alright! Wow!

            • Kay

              Well my window has a sturdy screen and there is no porch below it to jump onto from the hill, so that was good.

      • jazzlover

        So, did you ever figure out what it was?

        • Kay

          I’m sure it was a cougar. I couldn’t find my flashlight to look on the hill, but they are very common here, and it was nighttime. (they are nocturnal hunters like most cats) It was an odd sound because it was just like a regular kitty-cat purring, except it was a HUGE old kitty-cat. There are a lot of trees and high rocks out back so I’m sure it was perched up there, and had probably just eaten.

          • jazzlover

            That’s scary. Have you noticed that the over-development that happens in certain areas has a sort of domino effect of pushing animals into places where they shouldn’t be roaming around? I live just north of NYC, and we’ve had several instances of things like coyotes attack domestic animals and even wander into backyards and try to snag unattended infants.

            • Kay

              Yes I have noticed. There is an area of New Jersey that has become so infested with black bears that kids can’t even play in their backyards anymore. I have also heard about the problems with coyotes. I have had more deer than usual around this summer…they’re usually up higher but this year there have been tons of them down a lot lower.

            • jazzlover

              LOL. It’s almost like living in Jurrasic Park ๐Ÿ™‚

            • Kay

              Yeah it is, almost. ๐Ÿ™‚

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        Oh my!

    • Nat-leficent

      Don’t know how i went from false teeth to this, but this is what I came up with:

      Funday Sunnies: PRANKENSTEIN Edition!

      https://disqus.com/home/channel/offtopic/discussion/channel-offtopic/funday_sunnies_prankenstein_edition/

    • TheMirrorThetan

      Here is a cute kitteh.
      But he has been to the DM school of potty mouth and it is not a message to anyone here.

      • anoni81b4u

        I hate cats with a passion … but that is funny !!!!!

    • Kay

      Here you go….

  • Rasha

    re: Scientology Testimonials – What is the point of hundreds of thousands of dollars’ worth of auditing and training and abuse, when you still can’t resolve simple life issues without popping in a CD and have Laffy tell you the answer? Just buy the damned CD. You cannot function without it. This is you “more able”.

    • daisy

      I do not like these , they are abusive.

      • Ex-Christian Scientist

        Agreed. Me no likey!

        • Kay

          I do not like these either, at all.

      • Jon Hendry

        Pretty sure the animals are either dead or fake. And if real, probably not killed just to make a drone out of them.

        Apparently the rat died of cancer.

    • Stupid gifs are stupid and hopefully those are not real animals.
      New bollocks need none of it.

      • Frodis73

        I am really hoping these are fake. The animals are not struggling (or
        moving at all) against their restraints or reacting in any way that I
        can see. People are assholes tho and nothing would surprise me at this
        point.

        • Kay

          I agree. Plus, even if they ARE fake, this is disgusting, no one needs to be subjected to these images, nor should they be spread around.

          • Jon Hendry

            I find them amusing, since the animals are dead (of natural causes) and stuffed. The ostrich is a bit clever – granting the power of flight to a flightless bird.

            • Kay

              Well you are not going to garner any fans here..this is an animal loving crowd.

            • Jon Hendry

              I love animals.

              As long as the animals weren’t healthy animals killed specifically for the purpose of making a drone out of them, I simply don’t see any harm.

              What pisses me off is mistreatment of *live* animals.

            • daisy

              I would develop a less sadistic sense of humor. Some kid is going to see this and try to copy with live animals.Either way it is not right

        • jazzlover

          That’s kinda the way I feel.

        • Joe

          The cat was already dead and had been stuffed. He didn’t strap a live cat to a drone.

        • TheMirrorThetan

          The cat looked stuffed and Iam not looking at the other shit.

    • Kay

      Seriously, please delete this post, it is disturbing.

      • the guy was a Dutch artist, and the cat was his [which he loved]…. I’m surprised at how people react to this but have no problems with “stuffed animals” in general. Many pet lovers have their animals stuffed after their death to remind them their relationship…. this guy just took it to another level. I can understand this sentiment if animal cruelty was involved, but it wasn’t!

        • Kay

          Well thank you very much for taking it down. I think it really bothered some of us.

          • I didn’t …. Tony did

            • Kay

              Well thanks to Tony then. I usually like your posts, but this one I did not care for.

            • Ex-Christian Scientist

              Thank You, Tony! ๐Ÿ˜€ <3

            • the original “cat drone” was shown on all news channels [and press] here a little over a year ago…. the man is an artist and cat lover and wanted to do something different to remember his pet. No reporter reacted the way many commentators did here, none!… in fact there was a rush to judgement that this was “cruel” , a “sick joke” and so on.

              I find this reaction interesting.

            • Kay

              Well different people react in different ways. I don’t like anything, real or not, that depicts any scenario that represents abuse of animals. If it is that disturbing as an image I do not want it in my head. I assume from the response that many people here feel the same way. I don’t know that I would characterize this as a “rush to judgement” so much as a gut level aversion. (but that of course is just my opinion)

            • I posted the CNN report on the original cap copter/drone above [or below]…. it was lighthearted.

            • Kay

              I watched it…..still don’t care for it.

            • QbirdSP

              Without even seeing the post I knew from the replies what it was. Lush, I work with a Brit & she emailed this link to me last year – she laughed her ass off at it… and I reacted as other Yanks did (didn’t like it – thought it macabre.) I find that interesting.

            • A stuffed dog was used as a comedic prop on Scrubs for years with no problem…. put some copter blades on a stuffed cat and people lose their minds

        • Frodis73

          I read the link Joe posted. Since the owner’s of said pets had this done, I really have no problem. I thought it was kids being dicks at first. Not something I would do…but hey.
          I have to admit when my dog was getting older I was very distraught over the thought of his death I wished I could have afforded to have him professionally preserved. It was a brief thought and I’m glad I didn’t, but the thought of never touching him again was horrifying…so I sorta understand why people do this.

        • romanesco

          The YouTube site was taken down as well. Apparently, a lot of people find this disgusting.

        • daisy

          I wouldn’t bother explaining to another person, but you are not mean, so I will. The problem is some kid and his sophomore humor is going to strap the family pet to a drone. We do not want teach that cruelty to animals is funny. No kid is going to realize the animal is dead. We wouldnt strap humans to a drone, we shouldn’t strap animals dead or alive. This is the last I will speak about this unfortunate post, so please don’t defend it again, thank you

          • Sorry, it’s my right to defend it. I’m sorry but your comment “No kid is going to realize the animal is dead” is a rather strong opinion that I find quite [for want of a better word] ridiculous really.

            Maybe it’s just a European thing and agree to leave it at that.

        • romanesco

          • I think posting this pic says an awful lot more about you then it does about me…..

        • EnthralledObserver

          I was surprised at the reaction too… they were clearly stuffed pets/animals… who would have been already dead before mounting. Although I think it weird, I wasn’t offended.

          I only hope those that object have the same reaction to halal slaughter practices, or better, are even far more outraged and upset.

          • I’ll repost my comment:

            A stuffed dog was used as a comedic prop on Scrubs for years with no problem…. put some copter blades on a stuffed cat and people lose their minds….

            [in case you don’t know this is the Heath Ledger ‘Joker’ meme variation]

        • hansje brinker

          Who was the Dutch artist?
          ( B.t.w. I love the pictures you post last week about the flower-parade in Holland!)

    • romanesco

      That’s some seriously sick shit.

  • Please donate lighthearted things below, for everyone’s benefit.

  • Sebastian L. Jackson

    This is light despite the subject matter… and works in a good Scientology joke.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goYx0QcvioU

  • PlanetJ

    In the first video..that lady laid it in on that troll! Good for her! You did an amazing job,ma’am! *Clapping*

    • ReallyMGM

      Was that Aaron Smith-Levin’s mother? Whoever she was,Moshe spoke with courage, authority (knowing her subject), and conviction. If she is his mom, she raised a kickass son who is keeping the fire going…

      • romanesco

        That’s weird. She’s full of Hubbard’s horseshit. Aaron has an actual brain.

        • ReallyMGM

          I believe she is an indie and she made mistakes getting involved. She was not alone. Many walk away in Shane and are never heard from again. BUT She stayed. She had qรปestions and read the Truth Rundown at TBT and came away believing the journalists, not the cult line.
          When she speaks out it with the knowledge of an auditor (and what they sell) She has put endless hours in to the tech, so she knows its failings.
          She raised a son to question the believe he was raised in for decades, and he is speaking out loudly. She is doing good, righting wrongs. She lost one son to the insanity, her second son is a bright light for the future.
          The second and now third generation are the hope this mess will end.

          • romanesco

            “Walk away in Shane?” Question the “believe?” Next.

            • ReallyMGM

              Typo late at night on a mobile. But I will go fix them, editor.

            • romanesco

              Right, whatever. How does an auditor have knowledge? Unless you consider a head full of Hubbard’s crap knowledge.

            • ReallyMGM

              Personally, I don’t think an auditor has any more knowledge that a stranger talking to me on a park bench. I have no belief in the validity of an e-meter. But this woman did believe in auditing and metered. She was misguided in her years in the church. She split her family, lost one son to a horrific accident? What I see today is a mom who made mistakes, is trying to right them whatever ways she can, and supporting her son with his “Surviving Scientology” series. I see a mom, now grandmother, wishing she had never gone down the Scientology path that screwed up her family.

            • romanesco

              That’s not the name of Aaron’s series, and she obviously has no regrets about getting into Scientology. She’s just butthurt over some bullshit Miscavige pulled. In Aaron’s place, I’d keep my kids as far away from that silly old fool as possible.

            • ReallyMGM

              The first two videos I saw him do were through the grea Jeff Augustine’sI “Surviving Scientology.” an honest mistake.
              The later ones were done under this:
              http://youtu.be/GwPg3ffU4EI
              Since you have a bone to pick with Aaron’s mother regarding her relationship with L Ron Hubbard and the “tech,” why not take it up with her or Aaron.

            • anoni81b4u

              You would be the local professional on BUTTHURT ๐Ÿ™‚
              (not that there is anything wrong with that ๐Ÿ™‚

            • romanesco
            • anoni81b4u

              go to the top of the post and put a new one up … new thread ๐Ÿ™‚

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              (Just archiving the exchange.)

            • romanesco

              Not sure whether they’re typos or indications of illiteracy. Hey, but thanks for adding that question to your post after I responded.

            • ReallyMGM

              I don’t know what got you going on me tonight, but it certainly couldn’t have been a misspelled word. Two things: 1) It was a typo, 2) I am not illiterate.

            • romanesco

              I take exception to item #2. That is all.

            • ReallyMGM

              There is no need to be intentionally cruel, rude and call names.

            • romanesco

              There was no intention to be cruel or rude. I just call ’em as I see ’em. Seriously.

            • PlanetJ

              There certainly is no need to be rude to you at all…wth?!,..I know you are extremely far from stupid,M. Just because someone does not agree with you,doesn’t mean they should be rude to you..and sometimes “call’em as they see’em” or telling you to “take a class or something.” is fucking rude. You, “Take a class”? lol..smdh..if they only knew. I’ll stop right here.
              From what i’ve read and witnessed..not everybody is on the same page when they leave the cult..it might take Aaron’s mom a bit longer than most to get out of the thinking she is currently in..and THAT’S OK! not everybody is going to go at the same pace as others. The main thing is..she’s out from under DM’s control and she is NOT disconnected from her son…from what I see..it looks like she’s almost out the door.
              love ya,MGM! Hopefully,someone is just having a bad day and something in your comment triggered a rude response. xoxo

      • PlanetJ

        I believe the lady standing next to Mike was Aarons mom..and she did great too! but the lady that was sitting at first and then stood up..with the long hair. She’s the one that really went in on the trolls. They all did ell handling themselves though. put those guys right in their place! I hope they heard what was saying to them.

        • ReallyMGM

          The woman standing at the front with Mike Rinder was Sara Goldberg, Nick Lister’s mother. The woman who spoke up from the audience (I think) was Aaron’s mom. She was great.

          • PlanetJ

            Oh ok! I understand now..I still have trouble with figuring out who is who,sometimes! lol..regardless tho.. both ladies did an amazing job getting their points across! I found it extremely funny,that these guys failed on their “confront and shatter” routine..hahaa! Did I hear correct, that one of those men that were there to troll, was the father to either Nick or Aaron?
            I definitely see where these two young men get their guts and kickass-ness from! lol (THEIR MOTHERS!)

            PS.. O/T..I’m still in a funk over last nights game. ๐Ÿ™ I hope you are doing well,my friend! I’m seriously ready for some rain around here..my 15 acre lake is extremely low..and drying up. <3

  • Later. Lovely Sunday to all.

    • Kay

      Night Dodo !

  • DING! DING! DING!

    https://www.sundayworld.com/news/woman-tells-of-finding-best-friend-cathriona-white-s-body

    TV producer Jenny Burpee told The Star how she became worried about Cathriona after she failed to reply to her text for four days.

    http://tonyortega.org/2015/01/13/claire-headley-explains-her-amazing-scientology-experience-as-tom-cruises-examiner/#comment-1792158536

    Nora Crest โ€ข 9 months ago

    I love all the congratulatory remarks under the announcement photo. Two of the women Jenny Burpee
    and Kim Reichel Ford were both in the Sea Org themselves at Celebrity Centre. Kim worked for the Manor Hotel as their HAS Hubbard Area Secretary, she was in charge of ALL ethics and Recruitment. I think Jenny started out in Ethics as well and then went on to work in the course rooms. Kim left after she got pregnant the first time. I don’t know why Jenny left. [..]

    Former Sea Org with Celebrity Centre connections. Who would have guessed?

    ‘night!

    • Excellent find!!

      • It’s Scientology, there had to be a pony somewhere.

        • is there a title they give if you’re in ‘charge of ethics’?

        • Juicer77

          XD

    • Jimmy3

      Good work, sir

    • added this to my blog…. called you “cross referencing Bunker Guru RM Mycroft “…. hope you don’t mind

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        Link to your blog please, Lush?

    • Intergalactic Walrus

      Why is Jenny Burpee even talking about this?

      • she “found the body”…. but as my blog says why did her “friend” install major security cameras a few days before she died….

      • … from her facebook page

      • Frodis73

        I thought the same thing. The church is trying to distance themselves as much as possible from this, so her talking to the press isn’t too smart. Look how quick she was outed as a sci!

        • Intergalactic Walrus

          A true friend wouldn’t be publicly talking about such private matters. How about showing a little respect to the recently departed by keeping her death details private. The proper authorities will release details, if they need to be known.

          And reading that a $cientologist found the body, just raises more questions. And why is she trying to shine the light on herself as Cat’s best friend and that SHE is the one making arrangements. Other stories say that Carrey is helping the family w/ expenses & arrangements. Are the clams’s trying to make Carrey look bad? Why? This thing smells fishier by the day.

          • Kay

            ITA…a true friend would never ever disclose these details to the press, and would never make the story all about her rather than her deceased friend.

          • Juicer77

            This smacks of attention hound, not grieving friend. Nasty.

            • Intergalactic Walrus

              After seeing her “producer” credits on Lush’s blog, she appears to be another clam show business bottom feeder, probably trying to get herself some publicity and her name known. SMH. Her and that Travis dude… after seeing the abundance of CO$ Z-list celebrity wannabes it appears that postulating a successful Hollywood career is harder than LRH led them to believe.

            • Intergalactic Walrus

              Here’s another CO$ “star” (posted yesterday on Instagram)
              PHOTO CAPTION – “Does this dude really deserve to give a presentation at the “#Celebrity Centre”? Ain’t exactly the Church’s A-List. #Scientology #HollywoodShit #Showbiz”
              (refresh)
              https://instagram.com/p/8WS60KTT2u/?tagged=scientology

      • Scream Nevermore

        Orders from above?

        • Ella Raitch

          Well that won’t end well…..

    • Ella Raitch

      Jenny with the ethics background. Nice catch.

  • Jimmy3
  • Ronn S.

    Incredible q&a. You both, Mike Rinder and Sara Wright Goldbergrocked it !!!!!!!!! I’m really impressed.

    • romanesco

      I’ve heard of grocking, but Goldbergrocking? What’s that?

  • daisy

    Nite all. Have a good sunday

    • Ella Raitch

      Thanks Daisy. Mine is in the late afternoon but it’s been a good one

  • I love that video! Imagine you handled a ruin you never knew you had! WOW!

  • ReallyMGM

    What Scientology needs is a good old revolution like the happens in Hunger Games!
    Rue’s Signal Tune (been trying to teach to my cockatiel for 3 years!)

    http://youtu.be/pIago6ylKpc

    • B4you

      How many hit’s do you get on your site?, if i might ask.

  • Lady Squash

    Wish the moderator would have said to dumbass: “Excuse me. Could you be specific? Just what lies are you referring to.” Or “Security. Remove that man.” or “Generalities are so offense. Could you leave now.” or…

    • Juicer77

      Sometimes I feel that way, too, but I’m glad the doofus spoke up, in a way. It was the perfect illustration of the temper tantrum tot behavior that is all Co$ is capable of. Question about how Sara is doing now or if there has been any news from her daughter, or offering to pass along a message? Nope. Question to Mike about how someone inside can help make a difference? Nope. Just “we pay more taxes than anyone else.” As Mike said, Footbullet 101. We can’t make this stuff up.

      But I feel ya. Some days you just wanna (f5)

      • Lady Squash

        I hear ya. It was a perfect illustration of the crazy mindset.

  • Lady Squash

    Lesley Hazleton, author, has said that doubt is essential to faith and that when you abolish doubt what you have left is not faith but absolute, heartless conviction. She goes on to say that your beliefs quickly devolves into dogmatism and self-righteousness. She has accurately described the worst of the Scientologists.

  • Juicer77

    Took this photo the other day… Can you spot the flower? Sometimes you have to bloom where you’re planted. ๐Ÿ™‚

  • Scream Nevermore

    So much pain on display there. Except from the arsehold from the cult. He can’t even see it. All he’s focused on is delivering the message he’s been ordered to deliver. Which, ironically enough, involves shouting the word ‘freedom’. But Sara is awesome – like an avenging angel.

  • anoni81b4u

    I was going to post a comment or a picture, but instead, wanted to invite everyone to post screen grabs from the epic troll below and talk about what a poo poo head I am … lmao

    • romanesco

      What comment did you want to post? Go ahead. Feel free to be yourself. Call somebody a dumb gay cunt. We’d love to see that on this board.

      • anoni81b4u

        I do not have to, you just did ๐Ÿ™‚
        ok now stop before I pee my pants laughing ๐Ÿ™‚

        • romanesco

          You did what? Go ahead and pee your pants, you twisted little motherfucker.

          • anoni81b4u

            I think personal attacks are frowned upon, on this board. I personally kind of like the attention though. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside ๐Ÿ™‚

            • romanesco

              That wasn’t a personal attack. It was a well-founded and well-documented statement of fact.

            • anoni81b4u

              I will not argue with that ๐Ÿ™‚
              now go play nice and stay out of the road.

            • romanesco

              I’m all up in your road as long as you’re here, and you have no way to mow me down.

            • anoni81b4u

              AWSOME … now please post a few screen grabs of the epic troll ๐Ÿ™‚
              LMAO
              LMAO

            • romanesco

              Laughing your ass off? I think you laughed that motherfucker off before it ever even came into existence.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Goodness, you pair… the footy is on… keep it down, yeah?

            • anoni81b4u

              She is being mean to me !!!! ๐Ÿ™

            • romanesco

              Oh, boo fuckin’ hoo. Come on with the dumb gay cunt shit. You know — stuff that’ll get you banned.

            • anoni81b4u

              but calling me a twisted motherfucker will not get you banned? I do not understand these rules ? … thanx again for the laugh ๐Ÿ™‚

            • romanesco

              As stated previously, and admitted by you, it was merely a statement of fact.

            • anoni81b4u

              YOU ARE A poo poo head
              NEENER NEENER

            • Juicer77

              You were supposed to stay in the corner! (f5)

            • anoni81b4u

              tattle tale

            • EnthralledObserver

              Well… sit over there on the other side of the room then.

            • anoni81b4u

              *moves to other side of room with head hanging down **

            • EnthralledObserver

              Good boy. Now if it carries on, it’s not your fault.

            • PantalonesDeLaJusticia

              We might have to stop the car, if they don’t behave. I feel like I should be yelling like my dad about the heap of trouble they’re in once we get back home and the wooden spoon comes out.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Wooden spoon is known as the ‘Smacking Spoon’ in my house. I don’t use it for cooking.

              *rattles the draw*

            • PantalonesDeLaJusticia

              Come to think of it I have no idea why I have a set of wood kitchen utensils since I don’t use them for cooking either – silicone and metal doesn’t have the same germ risk and can’t wash wooden stuff really…:P

            • EnthralledObserver

              Wood does have a natural antibacterial property though… or so I’ve been led to believe.

            • PantalonesDeLaJusticia

              Certain kinds but not if you wash it in warm water or it gets sliced into with a knife etc…easier to stick with the other stuff that can be washed and make sure not to wash the cast iron ever. ๐Ÿ˜›

            • Missionary Kid

              I wash my cast iron pots and pans all the time. I just don’t use soap. If a particular taste has embedded itself in the Dutch oven, chili, for instance, I just boil water in it for a short time, then rinse with water. If some of the oil coating has been leached out, I simply wipe a thin layer of cooking oil on with a paper towel.

            • PantalonesDeLaJusticia

              It took my dad years of use to get the cast iron seasoned just right, so when he left it all to me back when my parents moved to Omaha (mom didn’t want to have to move any more stuff than absolutely necessary because those x-country movers are expensive!) I’ve been vigilant about maintaining and proper care of the cast iron. ๐Ÿ˜› I do like my steak burnt to hell and butterflied to make sure it’s really burnt to hell.

            • Scream Nevermore

              I once came home to find a perfectly seasons cast iron frying pan had been scrubbed clean. Totally clean, like new. Took my flatmate ages. And she couldn’t understand why I was not appreciative!

            • PantalonesDeLaJusticia

              Oh god, I would have had a really hard time not using it as a weapon in such a circumstance!

            • Missionary Kid

              When I was a kid, I once thought I was cleaning her frying pan thoroughly by scrubbing the hell out of it with soap, water, and Ajax. I did what Scream Nevermore’s flatmate did. My mom appreciated the effort, but not the result.

              If the coating on the cast iron pot or pan gets destroyed, all it takes is coating it with a light coating of oil, putting it on top of the stove, heating it to a point where the oil is smoking, and wiping it with a paper towel or rag soaked in oil to apply a thin layer of oil. If the oil is on too thick at once or allowed to puddle, the surface becomes uneven and will chip.

              It used to be that frying eggs would leach out the oil in the pan, but I’ve found that with the thin, multi-layered treatment, it doesn’t happen.

              My mother was raised on a farm, not too far from Omaha, at the beginning of the last century. I never had any meat that wasn’t well done until I left home, because all meat was cooked that way. The reason that it was cooked well done was that when she was raised, trichinosis was a definite danger from beef and pork raised on the farm that wasn’t inspected. I didn’t mind that everything was well done because my mom made fantastic gravy.

              The tradition of cooking meats well done has persisted among people from the middle of the country because of that danger, even after it has passed. Now, instead of cooking to that level of being done, temperature is what is used to judge meat safety.

            • PantalonesDeLaJusticia

              For me, the reason I burn steaks is a textural thing , and if I accidentally take a bite with gristle I’m like a cat who spends hours grooming so that at 3am they can ‘hork’ upon your bed or where you will step on it in the dark.

              Heh, kinda funny that my cast iron is older than I am, my dad went and bought it a couple of years into my parents marriage which was in 1968. I’ve had several nonstick pans though, since once some of the coating has been scraped off it’s not healthy to use anymore. I was the kid who painted herself blue instead of the paper on the easel, did a whole full face of makeup on my own, using mom’s brand new stuff. That was easily solved by turning on the hose outside and washing me off in in the backyard.

            • Missionary Kid

              Geez, you must be eating a lot more expensive meats than I. I occasionally get gristle with my cuts of meat. I simply spit them out if I bite into them. I’ve never found that burning meat eliminates gristle. I’m wondering what you’re calling gristle.

              I know that some people are ritualistic with all sorts of rigid moves about their care of cast iron. I just keep it seasoned.

              I don’t know how long I’ve had most of my cast iron cookware, but I’ve had one large Dutch oven that actually had the enamel cooked off of the inside bottom. I’ve had that one since 1962. I have several cast iron frying pans, and I couldn’t tell you how long I’ve had them, but probably at least 25 years.

              I am intrigued by some of the new ceramic and anodized coatings that are offered. I didn’t like Teflon because it eventually wears off,and it loses its non-stick qualities.

            • PantalonesDeLaJusticia

              I don’t eat prime rib and other premium cuts or anything, but I’ve been told that the way I pursue the trimming off of any visible fat looks like I’m dissecting things so I try to avoid it when someone else has prepared the meal because I don’t want to offend – even if it’s a restaurant. ๐Ÿ˜› But an 8oz top sirloin will always have some marbling (this is just an example from what I ordered last time at a restaurant) and I had already put it into my mouth so I felt like I couldn’t spit it out right there at the table – felt like I could ‘hork’ but did not. Burning meat does seem to help the final results to have less obvious marbling. I get the leanest ground I can, trim off all I can, but have adapted with not being so obsessive with what I’m cooking for others, just separate from what I’ll be eating since I’m the only one at the table who likes things burnt extra done usually. Chicken is easier, boneless and skinless that is…

              I have two sizes of cast iron frying pans, what looks like a regular sauce pan without the lid but is cast iron, and a dutch oven with the little handles on the side and that’s the only one with a lid. I have calphalon (I think) pots and pans but it’s the 8″ and 10″ skillets that I end up replacing because the non-stick stops working or I scratch into that coating which is a bad thing to keep using after . ๐Ÿ™‚

            • Missionary Kid

              I’m pretty omnivorous, but I find prime rib usually too fat. At least it’s easy to separate the fat and gristle from the meat. I consider gristle to be too tough to chew and swallow, so I take it out of my mouth. I don’t know what you call gristle. I have no compunction in taking it out of my mouth, but I use my fork, as subtly as possible.

              Cephalon appears to be aluminum that is anodized. I would imagine that special care is needed. What killed the non-stick on the frying pans? Was it utensils, or possibly heat that did them in?

            • PantalonesDeLaJusticia

              I think that the first time it was over-enthusiastic use of utensils, the second was probably a combination of lotsa heat plus being a little slow on getting them washed and put away after use (at the time I was in law school and had other stuff to be doing so my immediate need for food was priority but the clean-up not so much) and the third set I have managed to hang onto because they’re still in ok shape but may need to be replaced next year despite more quickly being cleaned and put way – likely due to the effects of heat over time making the non-stickiness diminish. I use the other pots in the set fairly regularly but they’ve fared much better. The only one that I’m replacing is a 3 quart covered saute which was dropped and following that began to develop a crack near where the handle is mounted. It’s supposed to be delivered (a new one) any day. ๐Ÿ˜›

              I include the bits of fat in the meat from marbling and by virtue of the nature of ground beef is that it’s ground up not pick and choose then ground up – as part of the collection I apply the term ‘gristle’ to. Like I said, I’m weird and it’s a texture thing that I’ve never been able to entirely keep from doing though learning what options were best out of my choices at the market has helped that’s mere avoidance and I’ve been unable to identify where it all began (presumably when I was a kid but at what age and the circumstances are a mystery). For all I know it could be some random thing that as a child had processed from seeing my skinny mother always dieting/talking about dieting, but the feel of my teeth chewing fat is gross to me in a serious way.

            • Missionary Kid

              I guess I’ll stick with my non-stick cast iron. I can abuse it, and if the coating comes off, all I have to do is put a little oil on it, heat it, and keep wiping the surface as it gets hot with an oil-soaked paper towel, putting thin layers of oil on to be cooked down to the coating that is again non-stick. I also have some Revere ware and other stainless pots and pans that have aluminum or copper on the bottom to spread the heat, but I only use them for boiling or heating up stuff.

              I also have a wok that I do stir fry in, but often, for smaller dishes, I use my small cast iron Dutch oven.

              I also use various plastic containers that come with frozen food to heat things in the microwave. The advantage is that they don’t retain as much heat as ceramics, so I’m not wasting energy heating up a plate. The other advantage is that if I want to handle them right out of the microwave, I just slip another, identical one under it, and it’s usually cool enough to carry the food around.

              I use the same trick if I do buy an entree and cook it in the microwave. Instant cooler way to handle the entree. You can tell I’m a bachelor.

              The tastes that we pick up as kids are fascinating to me. I have a friend who comes over and I share meals with. He doesn’t eat eggs, but he’ll gladly eat my french toast, which is just about all egg.

              I love the taste of ripe persimmons, but because of its almost jelly-like or slime-like texture, I know a lot of people who won’t eat it. I know people who won’t eat anything green, or raisins, or mushrooms, or all sorts of things.

              When I was a single father, I’d have my sons’ friends stay over for the night. Of course, (and I think it was partially because I’m a guy and their mothers thought I couldn’t cook) when I brought them home, their mothers would ask me what they had to eat. Several times, I’d name something, and the mother would say, “They don’t eat that.” I got to answer, “They did at my house.” They’d taught their mothers that they didn’t eat something, but, in reality, their tastes (or minds) had changed.

              My mother was a good cook, doing Swedish, Chinese, and Midwestern style food, but two things that she couldn’t do were squash and sandwiches. She’d boil the heck out of the squash until it was a tasteless mass. Luckily, I learned how to make good sandwiches from my sister’s mother in law, who was like a second mother to me, and, after tasting cooking that had tasty squash dishes, I learned to like it.

            • PantalonesDeLaJusticia

              From what I’ve read, you should be careful with the plastic in microwaves, and don’t keep any around for long-term use if you do a lot of fork scraping and throw it into dishwasher all the time on the extra hot/really dirty option wash cycle.

              I went through a phase as a toddler where I would only eat cheerios and grapes for the most part, pediatrician said “As long as she’s eating enough of those and you don’t make it seem like a big to-do she’ll grow out of it”, and I did once the big to-do of worrying out loud ceased – my mom put that story into my baby book along with a lock of my hair, my hand and foot prints at various baby/toddler ages, pictures and the other stuff one would expect to see in such an album. Some vegetables (like kale) nutritional benefits simply don’t make the taste worthwhile to put up with, but for the most part I will eat veggies and the list of what ones I won’t is very short. My childhood best friend won’t touch even the Midwest ‘salad’: iceberg lettuce, tomato, ranch dressing , never has probably never will, but I am shocked to this day that after a diet consisting of bagels with margarine, french fries, chicken strips, coca-cola and sunny-d and basically nothing else was ‘acceptable’, she hasn’t had a heart attack. And her mom was a good cook in my experiences at their dinner table, which were often because her house was a lot more fun for the sleepovers – not simply because her folks weren’t light sleepers whose house had a raised foundation and got up extraordinarily early on weekends like mine, but they also had satellite tv, cable, pg13+ movies and a more easygoing attitude about the rambunctious antics of kids hopped up on sugar and sleepover excitement well into the night. At my house it was “Go to bed and be quiet” by 930-10pm, no junk food or soda, the tv was in my parents bedroom and on ordinary days we didn’t get to watch much but sleepover nights it wasn’t possible at all so things got boring pretty quick at my house.

              My dad did a lot more of the cooking once I got to school age, my mom had a weird thing with ‘experimenting’ some recipe or another from who knows where and never turned out well, and she also had a longer drive from where she taught and home plus a longer day than my dad, so he got home and would get things ready to begin dinner, take a 20 minute nap and then cook so that food would be ready about 45 minutes after my mom pulled into the garage. There are a few recipes that are ‘family’ ones which my mom made for holidays and such – her manacotti (sp) is one she does especially well though in recent years if I want it with meat I’ve got to make it myself, so I’ve sort of re-imagined her sauce recipe to add my own flair with meat, some of the hot style tomato sauce, cinnamon and a few other things. Summer squashes like yellow are good if firm, not bad when served with fried okra even! Sandwiches for me have always been basic so if I want fancy I go somewhere that will do that for me, but in the “I don’t know how to cook but must eat, or microwave” days I learned there are many ways to use tortillas, and many things to put in one and call it a burrito. Early adult transition to independence was a time with much hunger and a need to do something about it that wasn’t really expensive, so figuring out how to cook had to start…in small but persistent ways.

            • Missionary Kid

              Urban legends: plastics in microwave ovens & kids hopped up on sugar.

              The first is a result of an urban legend that went rocketing around the internet early on. http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cookplastic.asp I always wash the plastic after use.

              The second has been VERY thoroughly researched, with all sorts of long range and double-blind research. There are other reasons that there seems to be a sugar-overexcited kids link, but it’s not sugar. True, it’s not good for kids. I thought that sugar caused kids to be hyper, too, but no research bears it out.

              I don’t like the taste of okra and Kale, but I’ll eat if Its served. I eat a fair amount of other greens. There’s a lot of things that are just as healthy. For most of my sandwiches, lettuce, tomato, mayonnaise, mustard, pickle relish and cheese accompany my meat. I’m not a fan of bologna, but I do often have salami. I sometimes fry my salami and blotter up the fat.

              Since we lived in mainland China and my mom was an RN, she was very careful about our diet after seeing all of the deficiency diseases.

              BTW, the Chinese didn’t have widespread beriberi until they started to eat white rice. That’s why white rice in the U.S. has vitamins added. I really dislike Uncle Ben’s because it has no flavor. I’ve had people tell me that they don’t like rice, but when they eat mine, (brown rice) they like it. I believe it’s because their moms just fixed “instant” rice.

              When we came back to the US, my dad got hooked up to a chiropractor who had him and the rest of the family eating a lot of salads, so I enjoy salads, and the ones that I fix, I call “kitchen sink” salads because everything but the kitchen sink goes in. Lettuce, tomato, onion, bean sprouts, bell peppers, broccoli, cheese, and those bacon bits made out of textured vegetable protein.

              How my kids got fed when I was a single parent was, “Here’s dinner, you don’t have to eat it, but you don’t get anything else.” I never indulged in a pissing contest over food, or fixed something separate for them. They also never starved.

              Ironically, I had a runny nose every morning and had to carry a handkerchief all the way through high school, but when I went away to college, it went away. I discovered the reason when I was on my uncle’s farm and he was harvesting oats. I jumped into the oat bin when they were being unloaded to shovel them around, and ended up very close to anaphylactic shock when I had an asthma attack. It turns out I’m allergic to oats, and my mom fixed oatmeal every morning. I can eat an oatmeal cookie or two, but I just don’t bother.

              My mom had the philosophy that if you can read, you can cook. Since I was the youngest by 6 years, I ended up helping her in the kitchen, so I learned a fair amount. My second year in college, when I had roommates, we had a deal where I cooked and they were supposed to clean up. I ended up doing most of the cleaning, too. Nothing improves one’s cooking like having to eat the result.

              After my oldest son got married, his wife thanked me for teaching him to cook.

              Since I’m 70, my cookbooks don’t mention microwave cooking, since they’re that old. My Joy of Cooking has no mention of it. I don’t follow the recipes so much as use them for a starting point and ideas.

            • PantalonesDeLaJusticia

              I told my mom that I make meatloaf, and she turns to me and says “What? You never had that growing up at home! What did the recipe come from?!”

              …Well, mom, there’s this thing called the internet…now don’t get frightened, it’s new but if used properly it won’t hurt a bit!

              A lot of the jump-off recipes that I’ve amassed and now have neatly printed onto recipe cards that go into my recipe file card binder are internet procured. Easier than recipe books, imho, that internet is. I remember a few times where I cooked and made friends who were at my house eat my newest culinary project – most of them are still friends to this day! Kinda surprising with how bad a few of those projects turned out. ๐Ÿ˜‰

              My brother is lucky his wife can cook, and also makes him eat stuff that is healthy – it’s entertaining when he steals some turkey or ham from her plate on holidays and then she makes him get more salad and also bring her some of what he stole originally. Now that he’s got a daughter, he’s finding out how different his experience parenting 3 boys is, and my niece is a firecracker to throw him off ๐Ÿ˜‰ But I remember his single days involved eating a lot of cereal.

              I don’t know if it was sugar, excitement and being in a less-supervised house where we could pretty much run wild as long as we did so in the house or backyard and kept the noise to a low roar, but my friend and I were the ruckus and free to be the ruckus. ๐Ÿ™‚ At least when we were at her house. My house was structured, quiet, and the urge to do stuff that might get me in trouble there but not elsewhere was like a siren’s song sometimes. It all worked out in the end, without any arrests, phone calls to parents to come pick my ass up and take me home were not made, and no property was damaged/stolen!

            • PantalonesDeLaJusticia

              Ladies, can we please act with the proper amount of decorum here?

    • Douglas D. Douglas

  • Graham

    In the UK the National Secular Society publishes a daily list of internet news items relating to religion. Rare to find a Scientology item on the list (it is after all a fringe ‘religion’) but it made it today: http://www.contactmusic.com/jim-carrey/news/church-of-scientology-responds-to-accusations-that-it-played-a-part-in-death-of-jim-carrey-s-ex_4956490?

  • Pierrot

    *** RED X +โ€“+ Reminder +โ€“+ RED X *** Sunday, 04 October 2015.

    Good morning Night Owls and Early Birds,

    Thursday 1st: SFBay scraped in and saved the day
    Friday 2nd: SFBay scored a couple of hits
    Saturday 3rd: New York scored a couple.

    RedX tips & Complaints procedure are included in the google doc under the RedXTips tab.
    Flag the lies, whack a few bait & switch ads : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-Kvg78kCcvo5gL7UfPcmhmbsagTNtdj0y2LAiHVFrCU/pubhtml

    F5โ€ฆ Longing the Dark Tower by Andy Factor enhanced by DodoTheLaser for RedX, flickred by Aeger Primo https://www.flickr.com/photos/120371503@N05/15888955519/in/set-72157642802079293

  • EnthralledObserver

    Rugby League Grand Final – Half Time – Brisbane Broncos 14, North Queensland Cowboys 12.

    Go Cowboys!

    • Juicer77

      It was really quiet in our corner of England last night… We bought some rugby gear to send to our nephews in the US ๐Ÿ™‚

      • EnthralledObserver

        I hear there was this Union game or something… right?

        • Juicer77

          Something ๐Ÿ™‚ We caught the first part then had an event to attend. Heard a lot of yelling from the outdoor venues… then groaning… it was not pretty.

          • EnthralledObserver

            That’s the way I heard it too… but ours was cheering.. haha. Sorry… I really, really did not intend to RUB YOUR FACE IN IT… no, really. :p

            • Juicer77

              LOL, we are just observers. Just being diplomatic with our host country. A little smack talk never hurt anybody. ๐Ÿ™‚

            • EnthralledObserver

              Footy about to recommence – off I go! ๐Ÿ™‚

            • Ella Raitch

              Is the final always in Sydney?

            • EnthralledObserver

              I think they rotate it through Brisbane, Sydney and maybe Melbourne. Actually I’m not 100% sure… I just watch on t.v haha.

            • Scream Nevermore

              Ah, go on – the rest of the UK is laughing this morning! ๐Ÿ˜‰

          • Observer

            Jeb is and always has been a colossal ass, and horribly nasty and judgmental toward exes. I called him out the first time I saw him post that all the exes deserve exactly what they got. I don’t remember if he included Karen losing Alexander that particular time, but I do remember he’s said it. His response was a a couple of weird, aggressive posts. I finally told him I was done with him and he stopped. He’s only gotten nastier in th couple of years since.

            • Juicer77

              And made promises about attending a book event and then chickened out… C’est la vie!

    • Ella Raitch

      Jess Mauboy did a fine job with the national anthem!

      • EnthralledObserver

        Haha… better than Kate… got all the words correct! ๐Ÿ˜‰

        • Ella Raitch

          Not an NRL fan (or sports fan really – my husband is sports mad) but we have the final on here and backing the Cowbys

          • EnthralledObserver

            Just gotta get Thurston a win before he retires… been robbed for literally 3/4 years in a row!

    • Ella Raitch

      Ooooh tense………….TRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Ella Raitch

      Congrats – amazing final and great win for Thurston

  • Juicer77

    Collapse Thread Tech. Have another cuppa. Go on with day. ๐Ÿ™‚

  • RGN

    Great showing by the Scientologists in the audience. Staying on message with incoherent babble. I still find it hard to imagine the cult members dont use the Internet.

    • Juicer77

      Internetz Useage is a discipline like any other area of study. It’s frighteningly easy to skip over things you don’t want to read in newspapers, see on the news or read on the web. Listening to and really facing things you don’t agree with is scary. Many people shy away from it. I’m guilty of it from time to time. And the $ci’s, like many fundamentalist groups, are taught to ignore info from other sources and obsessively study their own. I prefer the “wise as serpents, innocent as doves” method – know the different viewpoints and choose for yourself.

      • Ella Raitch

        Search engine lgorithms get to know what you like/ignore and then prioritise information you agree with….

        • Juicer77

          Yep!

    • anoni81b4u

      Do not forget the guest appearance by a private investigator with a camera even!!!
      This footage might be seen in GOING CLEAR II !!!!!

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    For something a little lighter…
    WISE in Russia last week.
    Me thinks LRON would have loved this.
    (refresh)
    https://instagram.com/p/7977hQrJiR/?taken-by=dazlobin

  • MostEthicalPimp

    I just got my laptop back together and logon to find photos of my old Scientology Crush doing the SRD. I don’t even know what to say. Should have waited an extra day to take the old girl apart and glue the plastic. (I’m taking about the laptop.)

    • MostEthicalPimp

      Also, I have to check if anyone made any shops of that photo. So I need to load all the comments. yippy

      • PantalonesDeLaJusticia

        Hello good sir, how’s the pimp life?

        • MostEthicalPimp

          The pimps life is going pimpingly. Have you been busy with case work? Also, I’m distraught that no one made a shop of the two ladies. I’d make one but I can’t think of any that aren’t appear personal.

          • PantalonesDeLaJusticia

            Work, sleep, you know…the usual.

            And what tow ladies? Did you lose your car again?

            • MostEthicalPimp

              two ladies in the SRD. Any pantie related news?

            • PantalonesDeLaJusticia

              Pants, yes I’m wearing pants. ๐Ÿ™‚

            • MostEthicalPimp

              Gee, last time I heard that line it was only costing me 1.99 a minute

            • PantalonesDeLaJusticia

              Hey, nothing in this world is ever free – now where’s my money for telling you I’m wearing pants, at this very moment. And a shirt too!

            • MostEthicalPimp

              A shirt too. If you say you have your hair up in a bun. I’ll… Oops too late.

            • PantalonesDeLaJusticia

              How did you know? Have you hacked into my camera and security system? My hair’s too long to not put up to avoid getting it pinned under my arm, the keyboard, the dog….:P

            • MostEthicalPimp

              OT powers from having signed a SeaOrg Contract. Even if I never actually joined! /sarcasm!

            • PantalonesDeLaJusticia

              Do you know where the key to the crate I’ve got *my* bf locked in ended up then?

            • MostEthicalPimp

              Other pants

            • PantalonesDeLaJusticia

              Crap, I threw those in the wash, hope I don’t have to use bolt cutters again, my washer seems to disappear bits of metal like a key….but it at least doesn’t disappear my socks!

            • Supper Powers

              Hilarious to make jokes about locking people up on this board. Do you not realize that children were locked in chain lockers and adults behind bars who read here?

            • PantalonesDeLaJusticia

              ….yes….uh well this is awkward….

            • MostEthicalPimp

              When you put it that way it does seam callous. err, we’ll behave.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Oh Supper… you’re such a buzzkill sometimes. They’re only joking!

            • Supper Powers

              It’s the way I am.

          • anoni81b4u

            tow ladies … shoop ? … where ? … I will do one … what picture ? lol

            • MostEthicalPimp

              The SRD ladies. No one shopped them. I can’t because it would be personal since I know one of them.

    • Supper Powers

      That must be a surreal experience. Hope she makes it out, too.

      • MostEthicalPimp

        I honestly worry for her mental health. Also, I think she recently went through a break up. I think her BF seams to have moved to Oregon. I never could figure out if he was a Scientologist or not. But maybe she’ll have wog-nition and leave the church if the SRD doesn’t go well.

        • Supper Powers

          How long have you been out?

          • MostEthicalPimp

            Gee, I stop going to Cof$ like 13 years ago. But I still wouldn’t read entheta and I guess never really made up my mind on LRH, CofS until January of this year. Honestly, it’s kind of serendipitous to see my old crush here in October. Since, it was a chance encounter with her last October that me to start looking back into Scientology and possible even the freezone.

            • Supper Powers

              In some ways, you are just newly free, then. Peer pressure and crushes have a powerful way of leading us places, too. Glad you didn’t go down that path to the Freezone.

            • MostEthicalPimp

              I realized the freezone was a mess.
              1. there websites aren’t very good or well maintained.
              2. The indicators of people like Marry Freeman See her youtube videos.
              3. If the tech was so great how come this people weren’t boom out the doors anymore. They were for a while during the whole truth rundown thing. But without the Suppression of CofS, Scientology tech just falls apart.

            • Supper Powers

              Good observations. The statement about the “tech” falling apart without CoS suppression is pretty poignant.

        • B4you

          wognition ! I’am so Ignited ๐Ÿ™‚

  • madame duran

    I thought this was both powerful and sad.

    https://twitter.com/AFC_Raz/status/650576758803202048

    • Scream Nevermore

      Spooky – I was just looking at that.

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    Hey Girl… and Guys!
    PHOTO CAPTION – “”Judge things for yourself , accept what is true for you and discard the rest. There is nothing unhappier than one who tries to live in a chaos of lies”
    Do not forget to see our wonderful Sunday Heroines @alexandrabraunw @lavozdaniela, accompanied by @zarahimz @eduardogalan and @ruddyrrodriguez
    (refresh)
    https://instagram.com/p/8XT3u5g6-i/?taken-by=eduardogalan

  • anoni81b4u

    Most ethical pimp … like this? ๐Ÿ™‚

    • MostEthicalPimp

      Right on!!!

      • anoni81b4u

        oh ok .. I will stop now ๐Ÿ™‚

  • Fink Jonas

    src=”https://i.gyazo.com/5eedb5b3a6d235849204c6db0027f559.gif” />

    • B4you

      “It just blow it all!!!”

  • MostEthicalPimp

    Here is a quote from one from one of the last communications I got from one the ladies in the photo going the SRD.
    “I am an active Scientologist. I respect the religious beliefs of others. In this case, I am not wanting to be supportive of or wanting to be in communication with anyone who is against Scientology or altering the technology or going another route that is not standard. I would need to defriend you in that case for my own well-being. I understand you brought this up in the beginning and I thank you for being forthright and honest.

    I sincerely wish you well in your life”

    • Supper Powers

      That is awful.

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        I wonder how it feels as one clicks the “send” button on a message like that…
        Or have feelings and emotions been audited out by that point?

        • MostEthicalPimp

          I think one feels horrible. I don’t think she wanted to do it. But she works closely with her parents who are Scientologist. I don’t know how active. and she has sisters, too. I can’t help but think of Leaha and how her leaving forced everyone to say I want to leave but they where too afraid to because they didn’t want to loose each other!

          • Intergalactic Walrus

            What a horrible situation to be in. Ugh!

            • MostEthicalPimp

              But that is how Scientology Works. You can’t say anything bad or boom your own mother might turn you in for ethics handling!

      • MostEthicalPimp

        Here is quote from a little earlier.

        ME

        I just wanted to say that I’ve had a lot of trouble making new friends since I was dead-filed by the church. but I was hoping I could at least reunite with an old one. I don’t know how your relationship with the church is but I know your a good person at heart and that is what matters to me. If you feel you need to unfriend me due to still having strong church ties please do so because I have no desire to have anything to do with the official church. This was why I couldn’t say ‘hi’ to you when I saw you. I was hoping to have been able to say that to you in person but that seems unlikely. Also, nice car and since you’ll probably be reading this a week. Please pick the appropriate holiday greeting [“Happy New Year”,”Marry Xmas”]

        Her

        Send A giant thumbs UP!

        Her

        Oops accidentally liked like. Eek. I’ll write you back in a bit.

        Her

        Hi (name),

        Thank you for your email.

        I appreciate your kind words about me. It has been a very long time since high school and it was nice to hear from you a few weeks ago.

        To answer your question, yes, I am an active Scientologist and go to a mission/org every day.

        It’s a very huge part of who I am and my life.

        I hope you do well in life and I wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

        On a side note, try meetup.com if you haven’t heard of it – it’s great because you can find groups with similar interests as you.

        All the best,

        [name]c

        Me:

        You will know when you need me; I’ll be there…

        (I probably should have left it alone at that point. But NO I’m an idiot. She didn’t remove me from her friends list. or anything. I also asked her if she wanted my help with something later on. Then said the following which was true for me at the time but WTF was I thinking:)

        Much Later me

        [I ask her for help with my online dating profile. but add the following:]

        BTW, I am not against Scientology as in the subject(Having given major case gains with just one locational) but I feel that the church is mismanged. I would return if I felt they attempted to follow actual policy. For now, I am seriously considering getting auditing from an LRH trained Class 8+ like Marry or Franklin Freeman.

        Her:

        [Basici yeah yeah it’s fine. good to see you putting yourself out there]

        “I am an active Scientologist. I respect the religious beliefs of others. In this case, I am not wanting to be supportive of or wanting to be in communication with anyone who is against Scientology or altering the technology or going another route that is not standard. I would need to defriend you in that case for my own well-being. I understand you brought this up in the beginning and I thank you for being forthright and honest.

        I sincerely wish you well in your life”

        Still no disconnection. So I ask her if she’d be willing to help me with my objections to Scientology. She says sure and I then reply in a few days that I was reading the policy letter and if she would be willing to help me apply it. Of course, that policy letter is no longer exists. disconnection!

        • Supper Powers

          “You will know when you need me; I’ll be there…”

          Perfect.

          • MostEthicalPimp

            What an idiot, I was to say anything after that!

            • Supper Powers

              No no. You are sweet. It’s a good thing to say at the beginning, middle or end of any conversation you are having with someone you care about.

            • MostEthicalPimp

              Maybe I should just send her a post card that says something like:
              I am still here if you need to talk or anything at all.

            • MostEthicalPimp

              see my reply above on why I’m not so sweet.

            • Supper Powers

              I think it’s kind of funny.

            • Intergalactic Walrus

              Do not beat yourself up for any of this. You were put in an insane position. By LRH, Miscavige, their church and their minions. Both of you. And you both deserve better than to have to try and navigate though all of this ridiculous and evil mess created by madmen. Everyone deserves better.

            • MostEthicalPimp

              Just to be fair. I was a bit of an Asshole in what I did. I tag her dad, her boyfriend and her in this photo on her company facebook page:

            • Intergalactic Walrus

              Hey, maybe you should play up asshole angle a little more. She obviously has a soft spot for them. She worships LRH, right? ๐Ÿ˜‰

  • EnthralledObserver

    Jonathon Thurston is a GOD!

    • Ella Raitch

      Awesome…have a drink!

      • EnthralledObserver

        Holy shit – tied on the buzzer, then extra time. Wow. Ok… he can retire anytime he wants now.

        • Ella Raitch

          Hit the post – so close!

          • EnthralledObserver

            I know. The faces were priceless. Devastation. And then that poor Broncos player… he’s so cut.

            • Ella Raitch

              Golden point – it was going to happen to someone…!

            • EnthralledObserver

              youtube… so quick. Here’s the missed conversion.

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNFTogHsYbI

            • Ella Raitch

              From that distance and angle to miss by millimetres..happy for him he kicked the winner

            • EnthralledObserver

              My Xenu… it was such a good game. On the edge of my seat the whole fricken time!

            • Ella Raitch

              I missed a big part of the second half (tea time here) so just caught the last 10 minutes. I work with a number of QLDers – mostly Broncos fans, but I think they’ll still be happy for a QLD team winning.

            • EnthralledObserver

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViRHf2ceB-g

              Here’s a better one.

              Yeah… Queenslanders can’t lose this Grand Final… ๐Ÿ™‚

            • Ella Raitch

              We came close to having two WA sides in the AFL finals – wouldn’t that’ve been awesome

            • EnthralledObserver

              Yeah… it’s fantastic thinking that ultimately even if your fave team doesn’t win that you still can’t lose. haha ๐Ÿ˜‰

    • anoni81b4u

      Thurston Howell III is a millionaire!

  • Lighthouse

    They probably were expecting someone to turn up. But still, it was a shocker.

    Can’t wait for Leah Remini’s book to come out. What a lady! By the sound of it, it’s going to really stir things up for the celebs who turn a blind eye.

    I think Miscavige is in a lot of trouble. Wait until Tom finds out what a pansy he’s been.

  • bougiefever

    Tried to watch the video on the congresses. The music kind of drives you batty after a minute or two. Still it was nice to see Scientologists using their words. So many times I see these videos where they communicate using non-word sounds “poof” “bam” “wow” “” “bowwww” and so on. It must be a thing with them to make weird sounds when you’re communicating instead of just talking.

  • Django

    Amazing discussion….

  • Ralph Hunter

    Boycotting, blacklisting, defamation, guilt by association, harassment, stalking, marginalizing, intimidation, elitism, vindictiveness, pettiness, immaturity, the spiritualization of unsavory practices

  • indie8million

    Bravo, Mike and Sara. Everything you said rang so true. Thank you for the truth you are telling.

  • Cheap & Nothing Wasted

    I really couldn’t get into the testimonials of the Scilons that were reading what some flack wrote because of that music.
    Make it stop, make it stop, make it stop!

  • Tory Christman

    I love the lady who says “I’m an auditor…and shame on you!” She makes some excellent points.
    Thank you Mike and Sarah…and thank you, Tony O ๐Ÿ™‚

    PS: Suggestion: One thing I do when I speak is I announce “IF anyone is here to just distract
    and scream they WILL be asked to leave. (And I mention I used to be sent by $cientology to
    do just that)”. Congratulations to Sarah and Mike and ALL in the audience including the robot
    spouting flat out lies. In a way it’s fine as they SHOW how FOS they are. ๐Ÿ™‚

  • the video of the open discussion, despite attempts to disrupt .Any reasonable person would be able to evaluate the credibility of each person. When someone has to resort to personal attacks about mistakes another may have made that is totally off point it is an obvious projection of the guilt he hides and is frightened will be revealed. Nice job Mike and Sara and thanks for holding your position!

  • Mockingbird

    I think I found Ron Hubbard’s description.

    http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Fraud_Embodiment

  • Sara Goldberg

    The Scientologist who was doing the filming that I called “Bates” (meaning Norman Bates of the Squirrel Buster fame) was actually Patrick Murray. He used to be married to Melanie Murray and they were at Gold with LRH in late 70’s. He works in the movie biz as a lighting guy. I was definitely surprised to find that out. He must have been doing a liability formula.

    • Nazanin F. Vafaee

      Dear Sara
      I saw the documentary on Netflix today and your story broke my heart. I myself am a mom of a 9 month old. I was very curious to know if you were able to get back in touch with your daughter again. I truly hope so. Best from Amsterdam, Nazanin

      • Sara Goldberg

        Hi Nazanin – Thank you. The answer is – no. I have not seen or heard from my daughter since the day she disconnected from me. I have written to her and do continue to send postcards to my grand-daughter and daughter in hopes that she at least sees it and knows I still love them very much. I keep my faith that one day she will wake up and come home. Hold your child close. Kiss them every day and always let your child know how much you love him/her. Instill in them that family is the most important thing in this life; It is the foundation. I would have also taught my children to question everything and to think critically. Thank you Nazanin for caring. My love to you and your family. Sara

        • Nazanin F. Vafaee

          Dear Sara, thanks for your fast reply. I am really sorry to hear that. I agree with what you said about thinking critically and teaching that family is number one. Sara, I was wondering whether you ever asked a psychologist or psychiatrist for advice concerning approaching your daughter. In the end the “church” is playing psychological games with people and indoctrinates them. Perhaps there is an approach that can do the same but in a positive way. As an example, it is said that you can never tell a person that is ashamed a lot, not to be ashamed. Because then they are ashamed more
          about not being able to stop being ashamed. Perhaps a psychologist with experience in this area could advice you what to say or do to get your daughter to at least reply to you. Or meet you. Do I make sense? I’ll discuss with my mom too, she is a social worker with specialization in family ties / family structure, maybe she has some advice that I can share.

          Another question, do people in the “church” ever come
          Out or are they always inside the church buildings or areas? Like, do they do normal things like going to the supermarket or restaurant where they can meet “normal” people?

          I really hope she will contact you soon. I wish you all the best and a lot of strength.

          • Sara Goldberg

            It is very difficult to find a psychologist around my area that is familiar with cults. It is an entirely unique creature. I did find one who deals in cults but he charges like $250 an hour. I guess they can do that when there aren’t many of them around. People in the “church” do come out. Those who are members (not staff) work normal jobs, live in homes just like everyone else and go shopping, etc. There lives just revolve around Scientology and it is the most important thing to them as it means their eternity. If you want you can send me your email and I will continue the conversation. Sara

            • Nazanin F. Vafaee

              Is there a way to send private messages here? If you know how, drop me
              Your address and I’ll email you back ๐Ÿ™‚ thanks!

              That rate is unbelievable but perhaps more are found through the Internet?

            • Sara Goldberg

              If you want, please leave your email address and I’l respond. There is no PM on this blog.

  • Justin Tsugio Shudo

    I could see Mike Rinder just laughing at the two clowns in the theatre. Do Scientologists realize how stupid this makes them look?

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  • Watching the video it appears that OSA’s goal in sending their robots in was simply to disrupt the meeting. Isn’t that a crime per the HCO PL on such? Well I mean, only if it’s a Scientology meeting. Otherwise such doesn’t apply.