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AUDIO LEAK: Hear a Scientologist being declared suppressive and facing the loss of her family

Yesterday, Alex Gibney’s documentary Going Clear introduced millions of Americans to Scientology’s concepts about declaring people “suppressive” and ordering them to “disconnect” from each other, resulting in families being ripped apart.

Today, we have one of the most dramatic examples of it ever caught on tape. The Underground Bunker has obtained a stunning audio recording which captures the moment when a woman is told she is being declared a “suppressive person” or “SP” by a Scientology ethics officer, and she realizes that it may tear apart her family.

Even more remarkable, we hear from the ethics officer’s own mouth that Sylvia DeWall (pictured) is being declared suppressive for…

— Watching Going Clear author Lawrence Wright being interviewed on television.
— Watching actress and former Scientologist Leah Remini perform on Dancing with the Stars.
— Having phone conversations with actor Jason Beghe.
— Sending emails to former Scientology spokesman Mike Rinder.
— And commenting on the photos of former Scientologists on Facebook.

These were the crimes that caused Sylvia DeWall to be expelled from Scientology, endangering her marriage and relationship to her own children.

“So you’re going to label me a suppressive? That means my husband has to divorce me. That means I lose half of my clients. That means my son, who is in a band with a Scientologist who’s about to make a big record, can’t be in that band anymore. Or he has to disconnect from his mother,” Sylvia says to the unflappable ethics officer who can be heard telling Sylvia that she needs to take responsibility for her actions.

Which, we’ll repeat, included watching Lawrence Wright and Leah Remini on television.

Recordings of actual Scientology ethics actions are very rare. In 2011, we wrote about a similar confrontation which involved then-spokesman Tommy Davis, who was secretly recorded telling a young church member that he had to quit his job working for an “SP” or he’d lose all contact with his family, who were all Scientologists. In 2009, Larry Anderson, who had appeared in a key orientation film for Scientology, openly recorded his own meeting with Tommy Davis to ask for a refund as he was leaving the church.

And now, we have a recording of a meeting that took place on August 19 in Clearwater, Florida that captures the kind of moment we often hear about, but rarely get to listen in on.

Sylvia Wagner was introduced to Scientology by her parents when they had her take a beginning Communications Course in 1978. The next year, she and her parents joined the elite Sea Org with its billion-year contracts, but her parents lasted only a week. Sylvia lasted just six months. But she managed to stay in good standing with the church as she continued school and then joined the Air Force in 1983. She didn’t get back to Scientology until 1994, and then she married another Scientologist, Tim DeWall, in 1997.

DeWall had started in Scientology in 1984, then moved from St. Louis to Tampa, where he joined staff. From 1988 to 1992 he was the executive director of the Tampa “org.” Between the two of them, Tim and Sylvia have three children, all of whom went to Scientology schools. But by 2009, Sylvia was having doubts about Scientology again. Tim, meanwhile, remained avidly involved, and referred to himself as “Mr. Church” as far as his devotion to the organization.

In 2013, Scientologists were preparing for a landmark celebration. After 15 years, the new Flag Building in Clearwater was opening in November and it would deliver highly anticipated “Super Power” processes involving strange contraptions. But in October, Sylvia’s auditor told her that the Flag Master-at-Arms (MAA), a man named Patricio, had ordered that she be subjected to an extensive series of “sec checks.”

Security checks are interrogations. Someone had snitched on Sylvia, which is pretty common in Scientology, where members are encouraged to write up and submit “Knowledge Reports” or “KRs” about other members and turn them in for “ethics” violations. In this case, someone had noticed that Sylvia’s doubts had led her to communicate with some ex-members who had been declared suppressive persons. Sylvia went into her sec check with some trepidation. Like other Scientologists, she believed that it would be impossible to hold back information from the “E-meter,” which members believe can read minds. A skilled auditor can, with an e-meter, find what unethical acts (“overts”) a member was trying to keep hidden (“withholds”). So, like many Scientologists, Sylvia didn’t even try to hold back and spilled her guts about what she’d been up to.

The sec check lasted three weeks. It took so long, Sylvia and Tim were unable to go to the grand opening of the Flag Building, an event that was attended by both Tom Cruise and John Travolta. And while the lavish events around the grand opening were happening, Sylvia not only was being interrogated, she also had to pay for the privilege. The DeWalls owned a paint contracting business, and they worked out a deal to paint her auditor’s house to pay for the sec check, a value of about $4,500. In the interrogation, Sylvia admitted to various interactions with suppressive persons, and her auditor wrote it all down in a Knowledge Report for the Master-at-Arms. He let Sylvia see the report, and she thought he had exaggerated what she had said. So she submitted a “false report report” to protect herself.

In January 2014, Patricio, the Master-at-Arms, called Sylvia in and laid out a program for her to make amends for her transgressions. She agreed to it, and says that by then she had realized that she was no longer, in her mind at least, a “Scientologist.” She wanted to continue to have a good relationship with the church because her husband was still so dedicated, but she only wanted to help out at events or do other support work. Over the next several months, she and her auditor tried to work out a schedule for making progress on her program, but they were both traveling, which made it difficult.

Then, in August 2014, Sylvia heard from the new Master-at-Arms, a young man named Daniel. He asked to meet Sylvia at a location on Fort Harrison Avenue in Clearwater, but not at one of Scientology’s major buildings on that road. This address was a nondescript building with no signage, only a pair of double doors. Ironically, it was directly across the street from a storefront called “Sage” where Sylvia, until just a few months before, had operated a party space for weddings. (See the image on the video, below. The Scientology building is on the right.)

When he heard about the location, in an out-of-the way office, Sylvia’s husband Tim told her he thought it was a sign that Sylvia was going to be declared a suppressive person. But she disagreed. She still had a program to work on that would allow her to stay in the good graces of the church while she wasn’t an active member, and she thought the new MAA simply wanted to talk about it with her.

On August 19, she went into the plain building and sat down with the new MAA in a room that, she noticed, obviously featured a camera in the ceiling. There was no expectation of privacy in this meeting. It was obvious it was being recorded. We have obtained a copy of a recording of the meeting, and we have edited out only a few seconds to shield the privacy of two people whose names were mentioned.


Follow along with our transcription and notes of the conversation.

Daniel: OK, so I wanted to basically go over with you the sec check KR’s that you had – you received a sec check at the end of 2013 and then I think Patricio was going to see you but you went out of town and Patricio went out of town and you never saw…
Sylvia: Yeah it was tough trying to hook up, but yeah…
Daniel: Yeah, so I just got them recently because he’s still out of town.
Sylvia: OK
Daniel: So, I then I just…we need to do something so I finally found them and I looked at them. Now, in the KR’s, from what I’ve read, there are a number of different suppressive acts that are in here.
Sylvia: OK. Can you explain to me…
Daniel: Yeah. Specifically like communication with Jason Beghe – giving him the mail that you had received. Um… comm between September 2009 and July 2010…

Actor Jason Beghe defected from Scientology in 2007 and famously went public about it early in 2008. A year later, Sylvia reached out to him, wanting to talk about her doubts. She also mailed to him Scientology magazines to keep him up on what was happening in the church. We talked to Beghe, and he says he does remember having conversations with Sylvia.

Daniel: [Met with name, redacted], saw her about twelve times and nattered about the release of the Basics.

Sylvia had admitted that she met with a woman who had been expelled from the church, and they “nattered” about — criticized — the 2007 re-release of L. Ron Hubbard’s early books (“The Basics”). Scientologists were required to purchase sets of the new books and lectures, which had been slightly edited and fully redesigned, at $3,000 per set, even if they already had previous versions of them. Many Scientologists saw it as a cash grab by Scientology leader David Miscavige.

Daniel: In 2009 you were with several declared people. This is the one that had been reported as a photo on your Facebook that I think Patricio saw you on at that time.
Sylvia: It wasn’t on my Facebook.
Daniel: It was a Facebook.
Sylvia: It was the Boshoffs who felt like they needed to put it out there.
Daniel: Right.

Sylvia says that in July 2010 she went to a family party, and realized that some people at the party had been declared suppressive. She decided she didn’t care and stayed. At some point, she was asked to pose in a group photo, and someone posted the photo to Facebook. Sylvia didn’t take or post the photo, but just appearing in the image with “SPs” was enough to be considered a crime.

Daniel: So in September 2007 through August 2009 you looked at websites containing – reporting to contain OT materials. This occurred weekly.

The MAA catches himself here in an interesting way. He is about to accuse Sylvia of looking at websites that contain Scientology’s secret upper-level “OT” or “Operating Thetan” materials, which Scientologists pay huge amounts to attain. Instead of admitting that those materials can be had for free on non-church websites, he says that they are sites “reporting to contain” the precious secrets of the church.

Daniel: Sylvia remained connected to Creed Pearson after finding out he was declared. This continued six times for a few months. She also smoked pot with him for a few of those times. She went to see him at his then girlfriend Christine ministry – Christian ministry – at his then girlfriend’s Christian ministry, and he came to the Sage several times. August 2013 was the last time you saw him. Patricio said you saw him after he threatened suicide to get him back in the church.

Sylvia says Creed Pearson was the first person she knew who had been declared. She says that Pearson was a wealthy man with a family who had been declared suppressive because he had found and pointed out errors in L. Ron Hubbard’s lectures and books. After he was kicked out, his family fell apart and Creed fell on hard times. But Sylvia had reached out to him, and that was a “crime.”

Daniel: July 2010 Sylvia got Mike Rinder’s email. She wrote on his blog a few times and cognited she had to stay off these types of lines.

Sylvia says she never commented at Rinder’s blog, but did send him emails. Rinder defected from Scientology in 2007 after he had been its international spokesman. Miscavige considered him a major enemy to the organization.

Daniel: One and a half years ago she asked Mark Schreffler what happened on his Facebook page. There was no follow up after he answered her in a neutral way.

In 2012, a well known figure in the church, Mark Shreffler, announced at Marty Rathbun’s blog that he had left the organization to become an “independent Scientologist.” Sylvia, curious about his announcement, reached out to him with a private Facebook message.

Daniel: She watched several interviews with Lawrence Wright last winter. She wrote on his Facebook page that she appreciated his objectivity. She has since disconnected from him. She watched Leah Remini a number of times on Google News, the Ellen Show, and Dancing with the Stars during the period of June, July, and August 2013.

You can hear with your own ears that Scientology’s ethics officer will consider you suppressive for even watching the likes of Lawrence Wright and Leah Remini on television — even if it only involves dancing. Also, as a reminder, this Sea Org ethics officer only knows that Sylvia watched these shows because Sylvia divulged it in an intense three week long interrogation. And speaking of thought crimes…

Daniel: She was curious about the issue of what happened with Shelly Miscavige.

Aren’t we all? In Scientology, however, even admitting to wondering about Shelly — who disappeared ten years ago this summer — is a high crime.

Daniel: Two years ago Lucas…is it Tan or Tanning?
Sylvia: Catton
Daniel: Can?
Sylvia: Catton
Daniel: Oh. Catton.
Sylvia: Yeah. Did… Can I ask… Was there a false report that accompanied this? Because I wrote a false report report.
Daniel: On that specific one or the whole thing?
Sylvia: The whole thing.
Daniel: No. But you got the sec check and felt these were wrong?
Sylvia: Yeah.
Daniel: Right…
Sylvia: And John said, well, write your false report report. And I did and I routed it to him and he said “looks good.” So I assumed it had accompanied this.
Daniel: No. Or has any of the stuff I said accurate?
Sylvia: Uh no. Well, it’s generalized and exaggerated. When it says “several times,” a few times and that sort of thing. And why, um…
Daniel: OK. Well, I’ll continue then though, right? Two years ago, so, Lucas Catton contacted you to find out if the stepfather of his daughter was a suitable parent for his child. You asked for information about what happened at Narconon and why he was declared. Uh, one month ago he contacted you again to find out why you had unfriended him on Facebook and you told him you wanted to follow the rules. Those are them…

Lucas Catton at one time was the president of Scientology’s flagship drug rehab facility in Oklahoma, Narconon Arrowhead. He has since defected and wrote a book about his experiences. Also, in this section, you can see Sylvia raise her first objection to this list of transgressions, saying that they are exaggerated, which she indicated in her “false report report.”

Daniel: And then more recently there were posts that you had made on Nick Lister and Aaron Smith-Levin’s Facebook page.
Sylvia: There were “posts?”
Daniel: Posts. Like comments you had made on photos of theirs?
Sylvia: Yeah. I did comment on them. But I’ve unfriended them.

And finally, the last of her crimes is simply commenting on photos on the Facebook pages of two expelled Scientologists, Nick Lister and Aaron Smith-Levin.

Daniel: Right. So, the problem is that like these different things, even if it was one time, and there was a reason why or whatever and it continues to come up and these things are suppressive acts. So I’m going to give you the PL [policy letter], the HCO PL on suppressive acts…
Sylvia: Can I stop you for a second?
Daniel: OK.
Sylvia: Because, what was definitely neglected in the KR, that did come up in the sec check, was, as I’m reading the program I was given, at one point, it was the Code of a Scientologist. And I cognited [realized], I’m not. I am not a Scientologist. And, um, the desire to be in a church does not appeal to me. I don’t like the rules. Um, I’m not an enemy. I’m very supportive. If you’d heard the conversations between me and my husband, who said he would come down here. He will make a statement, to get his ass on course at Belleair mission, because he has gains. He has wins. He’s happy. I’ve never invalidated his wins nor his gains. But I am not church material. I have finally cognited on that. And I am not an enemy. I am not an enemy. In fact, I think if you look over the last 35 years of my connection to the church, you’ll see I’ve done maybe half a dozen courses. OK? And a few seminars… My interest has always been in helping the community. Volunteer, volunteer, volunteer. When I came to Clearwater twenty years ago, I was like jumping for anything and everything that I could volunteer. I painted Winter Wonderland. OK? Way to Happiness. I’m there. I’m handing them out. I love The Way to Happiness. I’m not going to be one of those that are going to be able to abide by the rules. Um, I’m not out there telling people to not do that. It’s just me. I’m not that.
Daniel: Um hmm…

When Daniel mentions that he’s going to give Sylvia the Policy Letter on suppressive acts, she knows what’s coming. He’s about to declare her a suppressive person, which could devastate her family. She reacts by trying to hold him off, explaining that she doesn’t even really consider herself a Scientologist anymore, but just a sort of volunteer who will help hand out booklets of The Way to Happiness, a bland collection of life advice that the church disseminates to prop up the image of L. Ron Hubbard. She’s now going to explain how she does have some involvement with Scientology materials, but it’s convinced her she’s not a full member.

Sylvia: And I know, I’m scared. I’m scared about telling you this. I’ve read up, and it’s like I’m not making a public announcement. I’m not telling my friends this. I applaud their wins because they look happier. They look brighter. I’ve indulged myself. I have the congresses awarded to me by Ann Manierre at the mission. I’ve been, myself, going through these congresses. I like that. I enjoy that part. What I don’t enjoy is this. Because for me, it squishes me. And though it’s been explained. I’ve read the policies and everything else. I’ve word cleared it and I’m like I still disagree. And LRH says I can do that. And he also said it’s not for everyone. I’m like, well, you know…it’s…there’s certain parts of the tech I do disagree with, but I have to say 99.9 percent of it I love. That’s the tech. But for me, the church, it doesn’t interest me.
Daniel: OK
Sylvia: And, where we go from there, it’s like I’m not, I’m just not getting enthused about doing a program to come back on board. I have no intention, at this point, of coming back into a course room. I might do extension courses. But quite frankly, the congresses are probably going to take me, at my rate, about the next three or four years. And I’ve got two kids in college, one in a rock band. That’s where my heart lies. And I’m also trying to finish my degree so I can start a camp, you know? Where I can incorporate The Way to Happiness, but…
Daniel: Totally fine. So, basically, the point is like these actions that are laid out in the sec check here, like connecting up with declared SP’s, these things are, these people are enemies of our church.
Sylvia: I do understand that.
Daniel: Right. So, you don’t want to do it? I’m not here to try and handle you to do it at all. But these actions per our policies are suppressive acts, and they get labeled as such. And the problem with living in Clearwater, is that there are many, tons of Scientologists…
Sylvia: Yes there are. John Bellmaine’s like “well, what are you doing here?”
Daniel: And community actions. Yeah you can do things that are not for Scientologists, for sure. But a lot of the community actions, especially in like downtown Clearwater, and the things you’re talking about, The Way to Happiness, these things are generally with Scientologists. Maybe they’re not, fine. No one is forcing you…do whatever you want. I’m not here to tell you what you should or shouldn’t do. But, my point is that those things are suppressive acts towards the church. Whether you’re a Scientologist or whether you are not a Scientologist. But you can not do them, that’s fine. I’m just telling you that those things get labeled as such. So I’m going to give you the policy letter so you can read it. If you do want to…
Sylvia: I have read it and I understand… I hope that you will consider the intention behind it. It wasn’t to harm the church. It wasn’t to pick up a picket sign or anything like that. OK? It was out of simple curiosity. Especially the call with… or it wasn’t a call. It was an email with Mark Schreffler. “What happened, Schreff?” OK? It freaked me out. OK? And I think anybody with a curious mind would want to ask the guy “what the hell?” You know? And I did read Debbie Cook’s letter because I love Debbie Cook. I went to the meetings – the CEC… And I was like “what the hell?”
Daniel: Right.
Sylvia: This doesn’t make any sense to me. So, I pursued that. I did. I did that. Now I didn’t mean to. The only reason I…I make a comment or, uh, even contact someone like Nick Lister is because my heart goes out to him. He’s my daughter’s age. He’s been cut off. I’ve been cut off. I’ve experienced that just a smidge when the Boshoffs felt like they had to put my picture with the people I had just met that night. I didn’t even know they were suppressives or declared persons until I was there.
Daniel: Right.
Sylvia: Sure. I should have gotten up, but four or five drinks later they take my picture and put it on Facebook. Great. OK? So then the Boshoffs ran with it. That was upsetting because what happens is that I go from about 1200 people on my friends list to about two hundred in three days. And nobody asked questions. Nobody came to me. That was a little heart wrenching. And so I know how Nick feels. And I don’t… and I know how Creed felt. Creed wanted to kill himself. It is horrid and that is one of the reasons I am not interested in the whole church thing. Because I think it’s – I don’t agree with it. I can’t agree with it. And I’ve been shown policies… and I can’t. I told myself I wasn’t going to get emotional and I’m just going to TR-3 it.
Daniel: Fine. I’m not here to handle you to do it.
Sylvia: But I’m, I know, but…
Daniel: These things get labeled. And they get… You know, people who do these things do get labeled. And so, I didn’t want to all of a sudden just have a label happen when no one had spoken to you in seven, eight months. That’s why I decided to see you.
Sylvia: OK.
Daniel: Because at least it’s… I’m telling you, I wanted to give you the policy. You don’t have to take it if you don’t want to. It’s in the ethics book, as well. It gives the steps if one does want to get back in good standing. Um… that was the main reason. I just didn’t want it to be out of the blue.
Sylvia: OK. All right. What’s going to be out of the blue? What’s coming. What is coming?
Daniel: Like what I’m saying is that if someone commits a suppressive act they get labeled.
Sylvia: So you’re going to actually label me a suppressive?
Daniel: For committing the suppressive acts, yes.

What Sylvia has been dreading, and trying to stave off, is now out in the open. She’s been expelled from the Church of Scientology as a suppressive person, and all people who want to remain in good standing with the church — including her own family members — will have to “disconnect” from her, cutting off all contact.

Sylvia: Do you understand what that is going to do to me?
Daniel: I think that the actions you have taken…
Sylvia: I’m telling you right now that I’m not even a member of the church but you’re still labeling me. How does that work?
Daniel: Well, look at the actions you have done. I can just explain they’re covered…
Sylvia: But if I did it as a non-member – I don’t even have a membership. I’ve never had a membership.
Daniel: OK.
Sylvia: So anybody, anybody in this whole planet, whoever spoke with Nick Lister is a suppressive?
Daniel: Well, somehow you’ve had some connection to the org or to the church. I mean I’m seeing it now…
Sylvia: Everybody in this town had had some involvement with the church. The Mayor… Can the mayor not speak to Nick?
Daniel: I think you’re more of a Scientologist than the mayor.
Sylvia: I’m telling you right now I’m not a Scientologist.
Daniel: Fine. Maybe you were more of one.
Sylvia: So you’re going to label me a suppressive? That means my husband has to divorce me. That means I lose half of my clients. That means my son, who is in a band with a Scientologist, who’s about to make a big record, can’t be in that band anymore. Or he has to disconnect from his mother. I have to disconnect from my brother. I’ve lost two to death. And now I’m going to lose to disconnection. Does, does this make any sense?
Daniel: I’m just telling you, you need to look at – take responsibility for your actions that you’ve done.
Sylvia: They weren’t suppressive. There was not any harm intended. I had a communication. I have seen Drew Sweet on the street, say “Hey, Creed. How ya doin?” You know? He responded to a communication. How come he’s not in here having to do this? Why isn’t he labeled a suppressive?
Daniel: I don’t know. Did you report him?
Sylvia: He didn’t report himself? My goodness!
Daniel: I don’t know. It’s the first time I’ve heard about it. I’m just telling you that you need to take responsibility for your actions. You can handle it.
Sylvia: By doing the program.
Daniel: It’s covered in the reference. It’s covered in the HCO PL. You can have a copy or it’s in the ethics book.

Scientologists who are declared suppressive can get back in good standing by accomplishing the “A to E steps” of a program of contrition and reindoctrination. Until that time, the suppressive may only communicate with the International Justice Chief, who determines if the A to E steps are being properly fulfilled.

Sylvia: Am I going to see said declaration?
Daniel: When it gets approved then the justice chief will contact you.
Sylvia: And what is that… Then what happens?
Daniel: He’ll go over with you the different steps, options, etc. He’ll be your terminal, your only terminal to the church.
Sylvia: This is, this is really…mean. This is suppressive, what you’re doing. I am a good person. I have got a shitload of commends from this organization. Nobody’s even bothered to look. I don’t even put my name anymore. Pam Anderson wants me to put my name on this list every time I check in at Winter Wonderland. And I say that’s not why I’m doing it, OK? I’m not trying to get a commendation from the Church of Scientology. I’m doing it because I love kids. I am not a suppressive.
Daniel: OK. You’ve committed suppressive acts.
Sylvia: With this organization which I am not a part of.
Daniel: OK. I get that. Somehow you’ve connected yourself into the group.
Sylvia: That’s… How do you sit there so calmly and destroy someone’s life? How do you do it?
Daniel: You need to take a look at your actions…
Sylvia: No. My actions are fine. Anybody outside this room – in the real world – would have read that and gone “What? You commented on someone’s Facebook post?” And by the way, who’s policing the Facebook? Who reported it?
Daniel: Anyone can see it…
Sylvia: Yeah. Who? Who is it that has time to police my Facebook page? Who?
Daniel: I don’t know.
Sylvia: Bullshit.
Daniel: I received it…
Sylvia: Let me see it.
Daniel: I don’t have them here with me….
Sylvia: You don’t even have a report.
Daniel: I have it here. In my office I have your file. I didn’t bring the whole file…
Sylvia: So, what, the only thing you can show me are my own admissions in my sec check. That’s it? I came to you guys. For being there and communicating you’re declaring me. You don’t have one KR. That’s why I was told I had to do a sec check. Was all these KR’s. And I’m like “Can I see them?” And I never got to see them. Never. Not once. And I’ve requested and requested. And got the run around from John, from Patricio, from Ann Manierre – nobody ever showed them to me.
Daniel: OK. I got that. I didn’t know that. It’s the first time I’ve spoken to you. So…
Sylvia: This is injustice. This is injustice. I have done nothing but communicate.
Daniel: OK. So I think you should read this suppressive acts PL. It gives you your rights in there and your options in there…
Sylvia: My options are I have to move out. Divorce my husband…
Daniel: I mean you can read the reference and see what the options are.
Sylvia: Or jeopardize my own personal integrity. That’s what you’re saying. I have to go against my own integrity. Are you watching this? Is he watching this? [Gesturing to the camera, Sylvia is asking whether David Miscavige is watching.]
Daniel: I think you should just read this PL and then you can see what your options are from there.
Sylvia: Jesus Christ. Well, you did your drill well. Your TR’s are spot on, buddy.

Sylvia finishes the meeting by referring to Daniel’s “TRs,” meaning that she’s mockingly congratulating him on his robotic manner.

And so Sylvia headed home, terrified by the thought of telling her “Mr. Church” husband that she’d been declared, and informing him that he now faced the choice of staying in Scientology and divorcing her, or staying married and getting declared himself.

“She was toast,” Tim DeWall tells us, remembering what Sylvia looked like when she arrived home from the meeting. “It had sucked the life out of her. And she didn’t know how I was going to react. You have to understand, I was Mr. Church. I’d been in a long time,” he says.

“I just told her, I understand, you’re declared. She was just sort of speechless. I told her, I have a decision to make. I’m going to sit here calmly — I had to go through that process,” he says.

They were not only facing the prospect of having to split up, but most of their customers were Scientologists. And once they heard Sylvia had been declared, those customers would stop calling.

Sylvia tells us she honestly didn’t know what Tim was going to decide.

“I made the decision that my wife was more important to me than a disconnection order on a piece of paper. I thought about the repercussions for our kids, too, and would I be in a position that I’d have to disconnect from one or more of them. No, my future was more important with my family than with a church organization,” he says.

Tim says that after making that decision, he wanted to learn more about the church — why would it do something so cruel? So he allowed himself to begin looking on the Internet. “I really liked what Chris Shelton was saying. And Dave Fagen. But it was Paul Haggis who really helped me. Because I wasn’t insane,” he says. “I spent three weeks of searching on the Internet after 30 years in the church. I was a former executive director, I had handled Office of Special Affairs stuff. I always suspected there were problems but I had turned a blind eye to it.”

Their minds made up, the DeWalls acted quickly. “We sold our business and our house and we moved to Arizona,” Sylvia says. “We had the intention of being independent Scientologists, but then you go through the Internet and read everything, and we ended up throwing out all the books.”

Just seven months after Sylvia was declared, the DeWalls have relocated to Arizona and have started a new painting business. Their three children, despite being educated in Scientology schools (“Which messed up their educations,” Sylvia complains) are also out of Scientology entirely.



Posted by Tony Ortega on March 30, 2015 at 07:00

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UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists

GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice

SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer
The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill
The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield


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  • Spackle Motion

    Hey Bunkeroos – just got off the phone with a lawyer friend who tells me that there’s considerable ‘locker room’ chat today (versus water cooler) among several So CA cult lolyers, due to the documentary last night. The general consensus is that they didn’t know many of the facts (at least one was outraged) but in the end they have to pay the bills and do as instructed.

    My comment to that was, “they may have to pay the bills, but making a deal with the devil never works out in the end.”

    • One Human

      Their greedy, uninquisitive tears are delicious!
      I think we shall have caek for awhile.

      • Ella Raitch

        Nicely put

    • Captain MustSavage

      Maybe they’ll think twice about organising PI’s to harass people.

  • MaxSpaceman

    VultureDevouring Culture, has nearly 2 dozen things left out of the doc.

    • Chee Chalker

      Going Clear, the sequel…..

    • Mymy88

      I love this, yes indeed!

    • DVD. Please and thank you.

  • generic sock

    Who won the infamous musical chairs game?

    • outraged

      Everyone lost.

    • generic sock

      Besides nobody, of course.

    • Snake Plissken

      The company that supplies the chairs, they got an order to replace the chairs that got smashed.

    • Chee Chalker

      Ha! I was just thinking that about an hour ago when I was re-watching that scene….

    • Spackle Motion

      I think it was someone related to Marc Headley. He wrote on a post somewhere (or maybe it was his book) that he got to control the music so he purposefully had someone he wanted to stay win.

      • Donna Cline Sargent

        Yes in his book. It was his Superior. It helped him.

      • ComeToPresentTime

        Wow, Marc Headley was the dude responsible for starting and stopping the music? Did not know that. (Sorry Marc, still have yet to read your book, but did read your initial account of this on OCMB back in the day before we knew your name)

        • Tory Christman

          BlownforGood is one of my very favorite books! It is Marc talking…he’s funny as Hell as he describes the day to day life with “dave”. Check out Amazong, get it…it’s a must read! 🙂

    • Prim

      Mark said that he was given the job of stopping the music while he was turned away from the chairs and people. He used a reflection off something to know when to stop it to make his immediate superior win the last musical chair, a woman I believe.

  • Chee Chalker

    I apologize if this has already been discussed, but did anyone else notice the weird way COB walks? Its like a big man strut mixed in with a penguin waddle. And I love the scene in ‘Going Clear’ where they are singing Happy Birthday to LRH……. Travolta looks like Larry Bird next to DM.
    That is one thing that really stuck out for me in the film……how tiny DM actually is…….explains the massive.chip on his tiny padded shoulders.
    Note to the set designer…….giant stages emphasize how tiny your COB is………..the child sized podiums.don’t help either. Better to have a podium that rises electronically……distract the crowd with a video while you raise the podium for the normal.sized speakers.

    • Snake Plissken

      There’s a name for that


      • Chee Chalker

        OMG….that’s it! Miscavige is walking around with a load in his tiny sea pants!

    • Couch_Incident

      Thought he was walking funny b/c of the lifts and heels.

  • Kristin Rawls

    Wow… So I missed out on being in a dance troupe that looks up words in the dictionary on stage when I was a kid…

    • Fuji

      This made me cringe so much.

      • Kristin Rawls

        It’s right up there with We Stand Tall.

        • Mark Foster

          Er, DOWN there… 🙂

    • Sir Hemet TC Burlwood, VIII

      Is the blonde kid young Erika Christensen?

      • Kristin Rawls

        I was wondering about that, but I don’t *think* so.

    • L. C. Spencer

      Holy shit, a musical performance with word-clearing….?

      • Mark Foster

        LC, it´s the second word in your question.

    • ComeToPresentTime

      OMG Isaac Hayes’ voice 🙁

    • ComeToPresentTime

      watching this made my enthusiasm wane dramatically.

      oh, did you have a MU on “wane”? does someone have a dictionary handy?

    • WildaBeast

      That clip should be in Going Clear, as an example of Scientology’s abuses. I literally couldn’t finish it; had to stop at around the 4-minute mark.

      • Jenny Daniels

        You are strong WB,
        I didn’t last that long…ewwww!

    • Douglas D. Douglas


      • Mymy88

        The numerous pictures of this type (people snoozing in theaters), are SO stupid, it is hard to believe $cientology actually did come up with, and execute this idea, yet they did. I mean c’mon! Nothing can compare. It’s like an undetected member of Anonymous, was a double agent within the church, that got assigned to do ‘damaging’ tweets but instead produced these photos for some all-time Lulz. It must have been a sheer joy.

  • Sir Hemet TC Burlwood, VIII

    Anyone else noticed this tweet from Alex Gibney:
    @spielster There was much more in the 4-hour cut. We had to focus on our characters. Perhaps more in days to come.

    • One Human


    • generic sock

      So now I have to wait to see Going Clear all over again. Awesome.

    • kemist

      Please include the 4 hour cut on the DVD ! That would be awesome.

  • A bird in the chimney

    In my second watch I really felt how Gibney introduced us to the voices of those once-in as if an auditing session was starting. It beings in a pastiche. The overlapping voiceovers with the e-meter imagery, and then ‘go to the beginning of that incident… tell me about it… (needle on RISE)’ with a pause, and then Paul H begins to tell his story as both the music and sound effects lessen. It’s quite affecting; very powerful structuring. I watched the opening credits a few times just to take a bit more in each viewing.

  • susyqobserver

    It is difficult for an outsider to comprehend. How anyone would fall for this “new age” cult. So regimented. Controlling. Abusive. A psychological mind fuck. Its own lingo and punishment. Coo coo.

    • WildaBeast

      Usually people get sucked into it when they’re at their most vulnerable – after a bad breakup, or when they’re horribly depressed and they’ve had bad experiences with regular therapy, or when they’re incredibly stressed out about money, or something of that sort. Some staff member gets hold of them and says with perfect confidence and conviction, “We can FIX this for you!” and they’re so desperate to have it be true that they believe it – or rather, they believe it just enough to come in for a couple of early courses. Those early courses are cheap, and every one of them introduces subtle, insidious early mind-control techniques along with a few self-help techniques that really do help a person handle certain things better. They notice that x or y little aspect of their life is going better, and there are the Scientology staff, congratulating them and assuring them that, YES!, those positive changes ARE because of the skills you gained doing this course! Now how about this next one? It’ll help you with your ______! After going through that cycle a few times, the brainwashing techniques in the courses are starting to really have an effect on this person – who was unstable and vulnerable to begin with, remember. It’s much easier to convince someone to keep taking courses once they’ve taken a few and are growing ever more indoctrinated. And once they’re fairly indoctrinated, you can convince them that, not only will Scientology help them in their life, but NOTHING ELSE WILL. Scientology is the ONLY way they can have control over whether they get a raise, or over the success of their marriage, or whether they’ll get that transfer to a better position within their company – people come to believe it because they DID see some early successes where nothing else they tried seemed to have worked.
      Recruiting people to Scientology is like fishing: you throw your line overboard with a worm on it and wait. 999 out of 1000 fish may ignore it, or even say to the other fish, “Don’t bite that, there’s a hook in it!” But the thousandth fish is just so HUNGRY, so he nibbles a little, and nothing bad happens. (But the fisherman knows he’s there.) So the fish nibbles a little more, and nothing bad happens. So finally the fish takes a big ol’ bite – and WHAM! the fisherman yanks his rod back and starts reeling in the new catch!

  • Free Minds, Free Hearts

    Final question before I trundle off to bed.

    “What will be the big story next week?”

    A new book or movie announcement? A defection by a celeb? What do you think?

    • Snake Plissken

      I’m hoping for an interview with Shelly Miscavige

      • Deb

        Singing Dream a Little Dream of Me?

        • Snake Plissken

          Explaining how David Miscavige had her locked up in a secret compound because she would no longer come to bed dressed up like Tom Cruise.

    • Mymy88

      I want a press statement issued from Tom Cruise, or at least from his ‘people’, explaining his current thinking. Oh wait, he can’t think (logically anyway). Oh well, I pass, I got nothin.

    • Ella Raitch

      Someone is going to have say something (celeb wise) even if its in response to a direct question

    • BlondesAreDumb

      Maybe Hubbard will return to earth and the office and house that are waiting for him!

  • One Human

    Do we still have any hope for Broeker or any Hubbards speaking?

    • Seriously doubt it because I’m 99% certain payoffs and signoffs abound.

      • Robert Eckert

        Not in Broeker’s case, obviously, else the PI’s trailing him for decades make zero sense. I don’t know about Diana’s case, but she wouldn’t be kept so tightly under wraps if there was any assurance of her loyalty.

        • Pretty sure Broeker got paid off, but what he COULD say if he ever would is probably so explosive that’s why Lil Davey had him tailed for so long. Don’t forget, Broeker told a whole audience at the Universal Ampitheatre before Lil Davey showed up at the Palladium that he and his fellow Loyal Officer (Annie, both of them appointed so by Hubbard) knew of a number of OT levels above OT8 and Pat would be writing them up.

          • And who came up with non-existent OT 9-15, I wonder…

            • Hubbard. The Loyal Officers were in the OT3 story and in the Revolt in the Stars screenplay. So Pat and Annie got appointed Loyal Officers by “Rawl” (the hero Hubbard imagined he was in the script). They were supposedly traveling around with Elwrong researching “the American civilization” (as if we don’t have history). He probably had some “invader force” thing figured out with planets of the solar system, the blown-up planet that’s the asteroid belt, the former civilizaton on Mars that had the atmosphere sucked off in a 4th and 5th invader fight, etc. Remember, he didn’t make shit up very well, he just got high and riffed on existing stuff. So with OT8 original Hubbard’s actual Satan the “lightbringer” right? That’s Earth. So let’s say 9 is about the Mars wars. Or maybe it’s about the hidden civilization on Venus that has the freight trains that almost ran over him when he visited. He could make up 6 levels just with this solar system, weave in the Mormon thing of a civilization here post-Jesus on the cross, say Jesus came over here, mound builders, etc. And don’t forget Ray Mithoff was supposedly going to sort out those levels, so there was probably something in writing, and maybe that’s why Ray’s stayed in the hole – Miscavige thinks it’s fucking crazy stuff, crazier than the “Lucifer’s Bridge” OT8, so he shitcanned it. Pat’s gotta be one fucked-up guy because he let Annie got back into the cult to die (Marty went and got her, wasn’t it)? Too bad Pat Scrufari died accidentally. Clear #4 got Broeker into the Sea Org and was in touch with him before he died. Of course, somebody could’ve killed Scrufari, he knew a bunch of crap, too.

            • What a crazy clusterfuck.

    • May be right before they die. And at this point it’s almost irrelevant anyway, imo.

    • Mymy88

      Hey, I don’t even know if you saw this, but I replied to you on the Rolling Stone comments section earlier today, and mentioned Boop but I inadvertently spelled her handle “Boob”, and so my comment was removed. I just now saw the notification from that. I apologize. It really was an accident.

      • One Human

        No worries, will look when I can.

        • Mymy88

          Well it’s gone, the moderated deleted it. I can’t blame him, either. lol I don’t have time to go back right now and re-type it and I’m going to be gone all day. Later!

          • One Human

            See ya!

  • Valhalkarie

    Wow,they are working to clear the planet of inhumane inequality,then they LABEL people, give ppl. sTATUS,etc. how is this making everyone equal ???? Come on!!!!!!!!

    • kemist

      Not quite. The actual Hubbard quote on this is :

      “A civilization without insanity, without criminals and without war, where the able can prosper and honest beings can have rights, and where Man is free to rise to greater heights, are the aims of Scientology.”

      Only “the able” can prosper in this civilization. If you are disabled, you can rot for all they care. And only “honest beings” have rights. This excludes nasty SPs and degraded beings which can’t or won’t hand money to scientology. In the minds of scientologist, anyone critical of scientology or Ron is a criminal and therefore has no rights.

  • Guest

    megan lynn

    4m4 minutes ago

    Los Angeles, CA

    #GoingClear is making the time I got stuck in the Scientology center after taking a personality test (for goofs) WAY less hilarious.

  • Mark Foster
  • ThePanopticon

    #Scientology spokeshole Karin Pouw responds to #AlexGibney #HBO documentary #GoingClear Tommy Davis and Jenny Linson!— Automatic (@Automatic_ATS) March 31, 2015

    • ThePanopticon

      I don’t know the proper way to copy the tweet. Sorry it looks wonky but thought ya’ll would like this one.

      • Mymy88

        It’s the best and funniest tweet for $cien watchers I’ve ever seen! I even love the love I love it with. Okay… bed time for me, obviously lol. What a day.

    • Robert Eckert

      From the AV Club:
      The Church of Scientology added that they were rubber, and you were glue.
      Karin Pouw triple dog dares you, and moreover in addition, your mother wears army boots, neener neener.

      • Mymy88

        LOL excellent! I’m not worthy lololol.

    • Bryce Byerley

      Does Karin Pouw even exist as a real person?

      • Todd Tomorrow

        I’ve always wondered that myself. Somebody, I’d bet a team of writer’s puts together that wordy nonsense.

  • A bird in the chimney
    • TheMirrorThetan

      I like how they used the worst photos of them they could find and some photoshopping, and look what the did to Marc’s pic.

      • Robert Eckert

        Having to resort to a distortion like that is an admission that they cannot find a picture of Headley where he doesn’t look too-cool.

    • Diane

      LMAO. Haha!

    • Mymy88

      Shaking my head. What else is there to do at this point? It’s like $cien is doing a parody of itself, a damn good one too! Did that make sense? Oh my gosh, I need to power down like 30 minutes ago.

    • kemist

      Most of those nicknames would sound lame and pathetic even to the dumbest schoolchildren you could find.

      I bet little Davie thought of all of them all by himself like a big boy. If he keeps at it, perhaps he will one day graduate to yo-mama-so-fat jokes.

      • Tory Christman

        The “church” of $cientology always lies about their ex-members who speak out, labels them with grade school stupid names, and does their dirty tricks, insisting they do not and it’s OUR fault, while they SHOW the world they do. Way to go, “dave”.

    • Jenny Daniels

      Will someone please clarify for me what a “Crocodile Liat”is?

      • Robert Eckert

        Apparently she is not only a liar, but shedding crocodile tears? No, it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

        • Toni m

          “Lagrimas de cocodrillo” means false tears.

          • Robert Eckert

            “Crocodile tears” is a common expression in English, too. “Crocodile liar”? Not so much.

            • Judith Sylvester

              Probably means Drama Queen. Must be their view of destroying families.

  • TheMirrorThetan

    Yay I finally got a copy. Cant await to watch it later. I guess the 5400 other people acquiring the same copy must just be bitter bloggers on the fringes of the internet, or professional anti scientologists as I heard it described on TV earlier. LOL.

  • A bird in the chimney

    I noticed in Going Clear when a close-up of Naz Boniadi’s commendation certificate (for having high sales of books) is shown, on it is printed “18 Aug, 2005.” But 18 August is crossed out, and written in hand above it is October 3rd. They couldn’t even print her a new one? That seems so stupidly emblematic of everything $ci does.

    Billion dollar church, changing lives.

  • PalaceAthena

    So many comments so I don’t know if this tweet got posted, but if’s about what I think it is, then hell yeah Lisa Marie!

    Sometimes…The S##t hitting the fan is a damn nice sound;)— Lisa Marie Presley (@LisaPresley) March 30, 2015

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      This was chewed over hours ago. But it is good to see it again. And yeah, it’s about what you think it is.

      • PalaceAthena

        Thanks D3. Like I said, so many comments. Not that I’m complaining. It’s awesome to see so many people here.

        On another note, I was looking through Priscilla Presley’s timeline. I went back pretty far and I didn’t see one single reference to Scientology or anything close to it. Does anyone know if she’s still involved in the “Church”?

    • Mymy88

      My favorite tweet of today. Thank you, Lisa Marie Presley.

  • Tory Christman

    This is SO amazing! “You need to take responsibility for your actions”. BULLSHIT!
    Does $cientology E V E R “take responsibility for their actions”? HELL NO.

    I sat in an event…after 7 years on OT 7, asking to be let off of it, written to David Miscavige.
    TONS of us where F***d up. So what does he do?
    He has an event, announces: “You want to know why the OT 7’s are so screwed up?
    It’s because we trained them wrong”. (Truefax)
    And then? We were routed to the reg, who told us “Now you need to pay $25,000 to go back to go
    and re-train OT 7”.
    That was THE End….for many of us.

    Sylvia lays it out there: “Who are the Facebook police”
    And I ask: What morons would stay in an organization where they are telling you who your friends
    can and cannot be, when it is SO obvious?

    Congratulations, Sylvia, for speaking out.


    • Mymy88

      Preach it Tory! You can’t say it enough. It’s out and out insanity.

    • ComeToPresentTime

      I can’t believe Daniel wouldn’t tell her that OSA were the Facebook police. It just goes to show you, these Scientologists think it’s okay to tell the wogs “acceptable truths” to “handle” them, but they would never think in a skillion years that their case supervisors and ethics officers would also be giving them just as many “acceptable truths”. Problem is that they’re being fed an endless stream of them the entire way up the bridge.

  • madame duran

    Harold Itzkowitz ‏@HaroldItz 1d1 day ago
    Boy, who is going to want to pretend to be Tom Cruise’s girlfriend now, huh? #GoingClear

    Diona Reasonover ‏@is_diona_here 8h8 hours ago
    I was going to live tweet #GoingClear but it would have just been me posting ” This ish is cray” on repeat for two hours.

    mia farrow ‏@MiaFarrow 10h10 hours ago (yes, THE Mia Farrow)
    #Scientology is a thuggish, dangerous, cruel cult. Sign petition to revoke their tax exempt status … #GoingClear

  • H. Keith Henson

    The way the cult treated Sylvia is just standard operating procedure.

    Tim’s response . . . . Well, my hat is off to you. Also am impressed with the decisive actions your whole family took.

    These stories make the 15 years of grief the cult heaped on me worth it. They are going down.

    • H. Keith Henson

      Oh, and hat’s off to whoever got this tape to Tony.

  • Dave Reams

    As one of the worlds first and foremost nuclear physicists you would think L. Ron Hubbard would have realized that the process of fission chain reactions occurs in social relations too. The cue ball hits one ball which hits 2 others, each going on to hit several others … and pretty soon …

  • woodrose

    #GoingClear and Scientology continue to trend on Twitter. Happy Dance….this is feeling good.

    My most popular tweet ever!

    Signatures from all the American Bunkeroos (lurkers included!) are needed on this petition. Surely we could supply a few thousand signatures? If we could promote it and get 100K sigs, the White House will respond, which means someone at the IRS will have to at least compose a response on the topic. This WH petition is more worthwhile than most Internet petitions, so I encourage everyone to sign on. Your name will not be displayed publicly.

  • Jack99
  • FOTF2012

    Oh … my … gawd. Scientology once against hoisted by its own petard.

    Once again the false public persona of the church is peeled back to reveal the totalitarian demon hiding behind it.

    I feel profoundly sad for the MAA / ethics officer. His actions are despicable, but he is a trapped animal who does not know he is trapped, and who actually has mistaken the trap for a route to freedom. Like so many of us. Like me once.

    To Sylvia and her husband — bravo for making the sane choice. You are the winners in getting out of the clutches of the thought police who perform as mindlessly as any of the worst bureaucrats of Stalinism or the most irrational, controlling animals in Animal Farm.

    Thank you for posting this Mr. Ortega and thanks to Mr. Rinder for making a reference / link to it here.

    • And thank you for this great comment.

    • Judith Sylvester

      Yes, and we should all bear in mind, that without this incredible interaction, Sylvia and her husband may still be making due on the inside. But at this time, Sylvia and her husband are now out, and Daniet is still stuck.

  • whingeybingey

    Well, that’s a happy ending – unusually so. And, Daniel, you DICK. YOU need to take responsibility for YOUR actions.

    • Daniel was following the external order and the internal mindfuk. With that said – yeah, it was still not cool. Hoping this experience will accelerate the cognitive dissonance and help him to become an Ex very soon. That’s how it usually works.

      • whingeybingey

        How do you know he was following an order? In any ethics situation I was in, the Ethics Officer had a lot of latitude as to the outcome and it nearly always depended on the personality and temperament of the person.

        • EO/MAA has no power to declare someone SP, it always comes from above.
          I was declared, I know.

          • whingeybingey

            Well, I don’t know. Denise Brennan was ordered by Hubbard to spit on someone. She didn’t. There are many ways of dealing with orders, even in Scientology. I still think it has to do with the basic values and temperament of the individual person.

            • Spitting is not a written policy. Declaring is. It’s a machine.

            • whingeybingey

              It has nothing to do with written policy. They don’t even follow their own policies on goldenrod’s etc. Anyone can walk away at any time if they think that something is wrong. Hopefully he felt shitty enough doing it that it’s eating away at him and motivating him to leave.

  • David Hunter

    great news!!! the download copy of going clear on torrent sites is passing the download of a eps of game of going clear is on a few news place for scientology to hide!!!

  • PappeKak

    I think this might be a record number of posts with more than 2000 posts in the bunker today on top of all from yesterday. Is it? Does anyone know?

    • We lost count.

      • FromPolandWithLove

        Good Morning Dodo:)

        • Good morning, Poland 🙂

          • Baby

            Hi darlin.. I am so glad that you got to meet Tony and some of our Bunker Buddies.. We had a blast in Florida holding down the fort! I’m still recovering.

            • FromPolandWithLove

              Hi Baby :):):) I glad that You had a great time :):):)

            • Baby

              HI Polish Kitteh! Always happy to see your cute avi.. ; D

            • Mark Foster

              Mornin´, Baby, Dodo, Poland…Actually, it´s 12:03 in the afternoon here 🙂

            • Baby

              Hi sweetie.. so good seeing you.. Holding my doggie on my lap and starting my day in the Bunker of course..

            • Mark Foster

              Yes 🙂

            • TheMirrorThetan

              Hey Baby, How are ya. Sorry for butting in. I haven’t been around for a few days, did you end up going back to that shitty job?

            • Baby

              Pooky.. Oh honey you are never butting in..I always love seeing you.. Oh hell no..I walked out and never looked back. I learned a valuable lesson. I don’t want to work anymore..hahahha.. Going back to bed..

              Love baby..xoxox

            • TheMirrorThetan

              Good. The arseholes didn’t appreciate ya.
              I’m going for a snooze soon too. Its 10pm here and I got to go have some bloodtests early in the morning. I’m gonna be a grumpy bitch too because no coffee/ fasting before hand.

            • Baby

              Ugh.. bloodtests.. Well don’t study too hard..xo

      • Pierrot

        good morning Dodo, I hope you had a fantastic time in NY.

        • I did! Might post a funny pic to prove it on the next post. Thanks, Pierrot.

    • RBE
  • Pierrot

    *** RED X +–+** RED X ** +–+ RED X *** Tuesday the 31st of March
    Good morning Early Birds and Night Owls,
    Yesterday’s removals are not so grand with Canada, LA and Sac scraping home.

    Do not forget your daily vote for the Wounded Warriors and the Humane Society :
    Consider joining this petition to revoke co$ tax exempt status:
    NolaGirl is pointing us to this one as well :
    If you have evidence of co$ malfeasance see J Swift Money Project:

    New / Revised RedX tips :
    RedX spreadsheet:

    DON’T route out, BLOW, Get HELP, get OUT. CALL 1-866-XSEAORG

    (F5, …for) Imagination by Archann enhanced by Sookiesookie for RedX, and
    flickred by Aeger Primo

  • One of the cool things about meeting Tony in person was him sharing what’s for breakfast. Tony, if you are reading this – it was pleasure to meet you.

    • 1subgenius

      I got a laugh out of him when he asked if I wanted to get some pictures and I said, “No, I wouldn’t want you to get a big head.”

      • Juicer77


        • 1subgenius

          I eventually gave in to his relentless demands for attention, but because of a fail of a camera, the pic came out spooky, but lulz-worthy.

          • Juicer77

            Oooo, maybe it’s his superpowerz?

            • 1subgenius

              He’s not of this world.
              He has the strength of ten ordinary humans, and I’m sure you sensed his awesome sexual energy.

            • Juicer77


    • MrsLurksALot

      Good morning, Dodo! I’m glad you enjoyed your trip to NY; I was living vicariously through all of you guys. We’d love to see some pics.

      • Juicer77

        I’ve posted a few of my walkin’ Bunker NYC tour so you all would feel included. We didn’t take many shots of the event itself – too busy talking and hugging – but I’ll repost the classic Tony At Work shot from the viewing party.

        • MrsLurksALot


    • what’suppressive


      Edit: just saw your comment downthread

  • Pierrot

    Hi Hamtaro, is it only me, but for the last few days I am not allowed to see the results of the votes with jump start?

    • RBE

      No, not just you, I cannot see them either.

  • Mark Foster

    You, too, can study the following verbal diarrhea and achieve states of confusion and utter what-the-fuckness hitherto unseen in this sector of the universe. Of course you should ignore the lies and malicious bigotry of …well, you know, BLAH BLAH BLAH and get thee to an org:

    Ah, the sound of one turd dropping…

    • 1subgenius

      And so forth.

      • Robert Eckert

        Isn’t that interesting?

        • 1subgenius

          It’s certainly not manichaeistic.

          Especially to a permissive orthographical descriptivist.
          In more ways than one.

    • kemist

      Uh, mmkay.

      Does that word salad make any more sense if you get stoned out off your pants ? Just wondering what someone’s state of mind has to be for them to somehow find this brilliant.

      • Mark Foster

        Make sense? Logic?
        Mindfuck for Money. Pan-galactic Pimpdom, name smashed into history…
        And So Forth…

  • what’suppressive

    Ok, I just now finished watching Going Clear and enjoyed it but I will say this. I hope it was a legal issue raised by the 160 HBO lawyers and as a result was left on the cutting room floor but no mention of the child labour, not one. Disconnection is fucked, we all can agree on that but if you really want to get the public’s attention, if you really want to make the Co$ squirm. The abuse of children needs to be front and center. As good as it was, if I had to recommend something to a person with little to no knowledge of Scientology. I would still recommend History channels “America’s book of secrets” you get more Ortega on that one too. Just an opinion. One thing we did get out of it is my wife now has a crush on the very handsome and we’ll tanned Tom Devocht

  • EnthralledObserver

    Off topic Mummy bragging: My 11 year old got Swimming Age Champion at school swimming carnival today – so proud! 🙂
    That is all…

    • FromPolandWithLove

      Hip hip hooray :):):)

      • EnthralledObserver

        Thanks FPWL – First in Backstroke and Butterfly, Second in Freestyle, Third (almost 2nd by literally two millimeters) in Breaststroke.

    • Baby

      Oh Brag away EO.. I was a swimmer in my youth.. Always enjoyed it. That is thrilling. Yay Of course good seeing your too.. ; D

      • EnthralledObserver

        Thanks, Baby. I loved swimming too. Won a few ribbons in my time, but never got age champ. This child needed this confidence boost, I am so glad she had this success!

        • Baby

          Oh I love to hear that honey.. I was a life guard in small town America. I lived in the pool so I might as well get paid for it..tell your baby girl I said..” Congratulations! ” That is fabulous.

          • EnthralledObserver

            Will do – thanks Baby! 🙂

    • Congrats!!

    • TheMirrorThetan

      Bragg away proud Mummy 🙂

      • EnthralledObserver

        That TMT! 🙂

      • EnthralledObserver

        I meant thanks – lol Oops. 🙂

    • 1subgenius

      Fabulous! A sport that a parent can appreciate for its lack of closed-head injuries. (I”m quite serious)
      My nephews are good swimmers, in high school, and, as their father is of Turkish descent, they swam the Bosphorus in some event!!!!
      I can’t brag about my lackluster career… first high school…..we had the first swimming team there ever…..didn’t even have a pool..

      • EnthralledObserver

        Thanks 1sub! 🙂 Wow… awesome job by your nephews!
        lol – our school is very lucky to have their own pool – not that many schools do.

    • AintMizBahavin

      yeaaaaaaaaaaaa congrats to swimmer nice to know i can take lessons from a school champion no shame in my game ever

      • EnthralledObserver

        🙂 Thanks AMB! Will pass it on.

  • flexible

    I hope this was sent to HBO, and every single media outlet imaginable.

  • BrigidBernadette

    The person interrogating her sounds like a teenager. I don’t know how she didn’t jump up and beat his ass. People that do this–they need to feel some fear themselves. Why hasn’t the FBI investigated the missing people and thrown the leaders in jail? I guess I need to watch the film. That part has always baffled me. If any other organization did things of this nature–disappearing people, deaths, physical and mental abuse–they would be arrested, prosecuted, and ran out on a rail.

  • Shannon#1

    Tim, I remember you from Tampa. Now that you’ve left and gotten out of Dodge, you look great! You both do. Good on moving to Arizona. A fresh start is always a good thing. Oh, and recording that interview with Daniel, brilliant!

  • Braveheart

    Heart-wrenching. I admire Tim for having the integrity to put his wife and children first. At least Sylvia got an audience with someone – anyone – to be informed of her declare (and thank goodness for that otherwise we wouldn’t have this crucial evidence now). My admiration and respect goes to Tim & Sylvia for saying NO to the abuse and despite the enormous upheaval and much heart-break this must have caused for their family, they refused to bend to the totalitarian regime of RCS. I wish them the very best in their future lives. They did the right thing.

  • SkyBill40

    Seeing how they have moved to AZ (where I reside), run a painting business, have given the Co$ the boot, and I am interested in getting our house painted… does anyone know the name of their business? I would be more than happy to support them.

  • Yoyo27

    This is unreal. I cannot get over how calm they were. These people (the scientologists) are sick! Can you link to their new painting business so people in Arizona
    can support them?

  • Violet

    I have to say that if the DeWalls were in L.A., I would hire them for painting and make referrals, because of their character.

  • Scary horrible people. I HATE Scientologists.

  • Django

    Bravo, DeWall family…..

  • Tory Christman
  • funnybroad


  • AintMizBahavin

    Congratulations to the Dewalls for realizing their love for each other is stronger then the bs perpetrated by lyingtology may they always be blessed with love,joy,peace and happiness

    • Sylvia Wagner DeWall

      Thank you! 🙂

  • eucliditis

    There are lots of people like me, never in but incredibly frustrated for ages by one group’s ability to hijack the press, the US & global governments, the press and anyone who dared question them. I used to go to a.r.s. in the 90s because of my fascination. I’ve been waiting for the truth to come out for those who were hurt in it. Angry that the threats and intimidation worked- kind of like the Mob and today’s gangs/cartels- and they’ve operated with impunity for decades while amassing untouchable wealth. A criminal organization disguised as do gooders under IRS protection, signed sealed and delivered. I think of my anger, confusion and disgust and the only horse I’ve got in the game is my belief that we treat our fellow man with dignity and respect and honor the social contract. I cannot even fathom how ex-members must feel.

    Please call your congressional representatives. Tell them you are sick of the US treasury having a multi-billion $ hole in it called Scientology.

    And if you want to feel good about something- please read this Vulture article and the comments that follow. Lots of everyday folks like me who want to see things change. GC touched so many.

  • JohnAnnArbor

    Glad they escaped.

  • JB

    Please don’t feel sorry for people who supported a cult for so long. They knew going in that it was controversial, then they had doubts along the way, and even then it takes them way too long to get out only because they’re afraid of what might happen to them. After hearing story after story, stories ad nauseum, my sympathy for these people has diminished.

  • Edward Richtofen

    She pays $4500 to be interrogated? Tom Crusie refers to me as a W.O.G for not being in their church?These people are what I call I.D.I.O.T.S. Interesting self torture they put themselves through in the name of self greed.I have no apathy or sympathy for them. Stupid people treating stupid people like shit.

  • Anna

    Shame on them! It’s scary that indoctrination can get someone to the point where he/she is absolutely unable to make the difference between good and bad… This makes me so mad but I’m happy because despite of this disgusting terror the family stayed together. I bow my head!

  • PETITION TO REVOKE $cientology tax status….above is a perfect example of how horrendous this cult is. Please sign and pass it around…

  • Cosmo Pidgeon

    Up until today I had only read the transcript. This guys voice is so annoying and juvenile. Also if anything in the world pisses me off it’s being told “OK, I got that.” Really….Did Sylvia record this herself? She is wonderful. Her husband obviously knows this and made the right decision. I wonder what happened with the band? I hope her son ” flourishes and prospers ” on his own and realizes what a favor his Mother just did him. What a winy twit this E.O. is.

    • Sylvia Wagner DeWall

      Thanks, Cosmo. 🙂

  • Sylvia Wagner DeWall

    I know a large majority of these comments are for the documentary (it was AWESOME!!), but thanks again for your love and support. Myself, my family and my friends who have all experienced disconnection much appreciate kind words. Now, as for the rest of you 😛 …. (joke). A few remarks were made about WHY ON EARTH someone would involve themselves with such a organization. Well, easy to wonder in these days of the internet. But realize most of us got in before the ol’ ‘C’ prompt days even. We had no idea about Xenu as this is something you’re not told about until waaaaaayyyy up the lines. And abuses within the church staff were never made public. As far as we all knew, we were helping the world while helping ourselves. Kind of one those ‘you-had-to-be-there’s. Love you guys! And you know, you’re not nearly as scary as I was lead to believe all my life!!

  • Mockingbird

    I just listened to the tape and am as usial disgusted by Scientology “ethics” in action . It epitomizes institutionalized evil . Calmly sitting there and just blandly telling a good person whose family you intend to destroy that for watching dancing on TV or looking at a Facebook page you are justified is beyond absurd . I am very happy to hear this family is both together and out of Scientology . I hope all the others can join them soon .

    • Peter

      I believe, according to LRH, they would correctly be called Scientology Morals. As he said, ethics are self imposed while morals are having a spear stuck in your belly forcing to to respond. 🙂

  • M.S.
  • Valhalkarie

    Ok I need some advise
    So I’m on face book posting something and went to choose a costom audience out of my friends
    Suddenly there is a new friend category;
    Choose from,
    SCIENTOLOGY,except Restricted
    High school
    Is it them???!!!

  • Great scoop, Tony!

  • mars bella

    Wonderful to hear that all the family are now out! 🙂

  • Eugene K

    Hands down, one of the best posts ever. A LOT of people are going to be able to relate to this including myself. “You need to take responsibility…” is probably one of the most common things anyone will hear down at the Ethics office regardless of what the issue is at hand. It’s virtually an “automated service” with teenage MAA’s regurgitating the drill with little thought or decision power of their own. It’s pointless to reason with them or anyone else at the Church for that matter, maybe unless you are Tom Cruise or have a billion $$$ in your name for potential donations.

  • Scientology Is A Dead-End Road

    The biggest and cruelest joke of all is that people are disconnecting for a pure fantasy,
    as Scientology is not, was not, and never will be the “road to total freedom”.
    My research uncovered what is going on actually. It is the opposite direction to Scientology.
    A truism is that the full answer lies only within yourself, not outside in Scientology or anything else.
    There are guides who can help but it can’t be done for you, regardless.
    Hubbard in his crazy state (read “Alan”‘s posts on ESMB, if they are still there)
    thought he could tell everyone else where to go and how to get there.

    The state LRH died in, mentally and physically as well as spiritually demonstrates
    Scientology lack of workability. Scientology Is A Dead-End Street.

    I could add that in a very few cases people in the early years die get real”OT” gains.
    1952 was likely the high point of that.
    However, many more died later from getting too overwhelmed with case unresolved.
    Why do so many stop at OT-3 ?

  • Skabetti

    Strong, strong woman.

  • havadood

    Who is this cretin, Daniel? His full name and identity should be widely published and he should face accountability, public scrutiny and derision in the same degree that he so cruelly hands it out in the name of his evil cult. If these folks are so isolated and unaware of such abuses in their so-called religion, let’s un-isolate them by putting this tape on the front page of every single news publication in the country. I am stunned and speechless. I am not a current or former Scientologist, but these people are truly twisted and their inhumanity and cruelty must be more widely exposed. This is a Human Rights issue, not a religious rights issue.

  • Elizabeth Lavet

    What I don’t get is if scientology helps people deal with life why do they have to run and get on the cans every time they hear something negative about scientology, get upset over life, or are around an SP. Why are they getting punished for practicing basic freedoms. Scientology makes people dependent, NOT FREE>

  • Elizabeth Lavet

    The best thing that happened to me was to be threatened and bullied by scientology 20 years ago, this kept me out of doing anything with them because I considered their actions contrary to anything I wanted. The sad thing is this declare of this woman shows abuse of power by scientology and irrational abusive behavior of the church. I agree mean, and sad. These people enjoy playing people, bullying, and power hungry. This shows so lack of character and lack of ego integrity.

  • raul5050

    Thank goodness they got out with their children.

    This horrible life ruining cult has got to end.

    Please sign the petition to revoke the tax status of this cult.

  • Maximo J. Soler


  • micheals1992 .

    I think i’d get up and stab the guy if he was about to do that to my life! that’s disgusting! :O

  • Aslan-1965

    I am glad they got out, but I sit here and just cannot believe how ANYONE with half a brain can ever fall for this crap? It’s like, I just HAVE NO SYMPATHY. I read this stuff and I am just incredulous. Thetan? Xenu? Who the fuck could ever attend even one session of this drivel without cracking the fuck up? I would be laughing my ass off. Listening to this woman argue and plead and even feel like she has to justify any action to some asshole just fills me with rage. How can anyone be taken in by this, I just don’t understand. This “religion” must only take in weak-minded people because one “personality test” and I’d be out the door. And they charge you to do this and YOU PAY? Sending your children off to work camps and never seeing them? WHO DOES THIS?

    • Sylvia Wagner DeWall

      I understand why you might think that. Please check out the comments above. It might help to broaden your perspective on others’ viewpoints. 😉 (Starting with DrevinX from three months ago)

  • DrevinX

    This is a happy story ….. even though this woman had to go through hell for a time – and thought she might lose her entire family. Apparently her family were intelligent though, a trait most Scientology members lack. At the very least, they all lack common sense. But, unless other drones who HAVE divorced and completely shun their family because of this obnoxious, self-righteous cult told them they had to, this family had more than half a brain, and stayed together.

    I will say that, for this woman to have messed around with Scientology to begin with, and care what they have to say about anything, did turn me off a little overall. So, if they would have found a way to ‘work with’ her on her status, she probably never would have left, and they’d still all be members of this cult. She wanted to stay in good standings with the cult originally, which is disappointing.

    This cult should be disbanded, and I hope the FBI, Department of Homeland, IRS, etc are all taking notice. They are not a church. They do not deserve any tax exemptions. They should not eve be allowed to ‘practice’ as an organization. I am really curious how someone like David Miscavige manages to stay a.) out of jail and b.) alive. The amount of damage that he, and his cronies have done, are criminal and insane. It wouldn’t surprise me if, someday (soon even), someone takes Miscavige out. He has crossed so many people over his greed, and how he handles anyone who ever leaves, or speaks out against, Scientology. He will finally piss off the wrong person ……

    I have recently become fascinated with this cult, and all of their antics. With more and more people coming out against them, mostly former members who have had enough, there are so many details about this cults inner working, all insane, many criminal. From forcing women to have abortions, to imprisoning members, for YEARS, for what the cult calls infractions against it. Things like daring to speak ones mind on any topic, especially any topic involving the cult or its members, Looking at the ‘wrong thing’ on the internet (i.e. any of the massive amounts of truth about Scientology all over the internet now). Or having contact with someone that they deem is a ‘suppressive’ person (i.e. anyone who has said something the cult doesn’t like to hear), including ones own family members, I don’t get how anyone gets mixed up in a cult like this to begin with – but, so many people have in the past …. people with (and without) money, who ‘donate’ so much money to the organization, and allow it to bank billions of dollars because of it. The wealthy, who have the money to throw away, are one thing; but, so many members do not have the money to burn like this, and they badger and berete members into submission, and force those who cannot afford to, to give all their money to the group ( – which simply line Miscavige’s pockets).

    The FBI needs to raid the offices of this cult, and they need to also raid their facility they call ‘Gold’, where the “Hole” exists. This is where the cult puts their ‘inmates’ – and force them to serve their time. And it isn’t as if this is a few days, or even a few weeks of hell. They leave people here for YEARS. They do hard labor, and brain washing exercises, all day, every day. The former President of Scientology, Heber Jentzsch, has been held here since 2004 (12 years now!), for being a perceived threat to Miscavige. And Shelly Miscavige, the cult leaders own wife ….. she has been their since 2006 now. Of course, there are dozens to hundreds more there as well. any believe that they are not permitted to leave, which, of course, would be false imprisonment. The cult does not admit this place even exists; however, plenty of former high executives within Scientology, including former right hand men to Miscavige, have positively identified its existence, and the conditions of the Hole, as they themselves served hard time there. Of course, this is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the crimes this cult is most definitely guilty of. If the government were to dig into the treatment of the children held within the cult, I imagine everyone involved would go to jail for a very long time. With all the information that has filtered out of the group over the past 5+ years, and especially in the past 2 years, I can only imagine it is just a matter of time before the cult is raided, and indictments are issues. Unfortunately, I would be willing to bet that by the time this finally happens, people like Miscavige will be long gone – into hiding somewhere like L. Ron Hubbard did for the later years in his life, when the French, and US governments finally came after him.

    • Sylvia Wagner DeWall

      My folks got me in when I was just thirteen. And as far as my wanting to staying in good standing, it was simply to not rock the boat. I already knew it was a mind controlling cult, but I didn’t want to lose my husband, my friends, my home, my business. Hence ‘staying in good standing’ was the goal. Realize that many folks call themselves ‘scientologists’, yet hardly if ever attend courses, receive auditing or even volunteer for their “church”. They simply want to belong to a group. And when you lose that group, in most cases you lose social, economic and familial ties – devastating your life. Being programmed (or brainwashed) happens to all of us to a certain extent everyday. Cults are simply an extreme version. Example: When I joined the military at 18, I hardly knew the words to our national anthem. Nine weeks later after graduating basic training, I was snapping to attention and tearing up at the first few notes. I had been conditioned to pick up a gun and shoot when given an order – no questions asked. Another example are sporting events in certain parts of the world where fans physically harm each other over the outcome of a soccer game. Advertising, news media, our own parents…. all condition us to a certain extent. Try not not to judge too harshly. 😉

      • MaximusX67

        Thank you for taking the time to review my comment and to answer it back – I appreciate it! First off let me reiterate how happy I am for you, and that your story is that of a more positive nature, especially when dealing with a cult as strong, and with as deep of pockets, as Scientology. I spent week after week enthralled with Scientology videos and articles; it just fascinates me to no end for some reason. Most of what is out there is very sad all around, especially how it rips families apart. And you are right …. especially considering I have never personally been affected by it, I shouldn’t judge like I do/did to you, and I apologize. I was on a bit of a roll when I wrote this comment, as I had been commenting on many boards about my disdain for Scientology, and those who allow themselves to be brainwashed by the higher-ups within this origination. You make a great point on how we are all inoculated to some extent in our lives by something and/or someone. And when we are young we are that much more susceptible to things, such as religion, patriotism, sports and the like. My comment that you should never have messed around with Scientology to begin with was a bit naive on my part, considering I didn’t take into account your age, just to name one factor (of many) I may have omitted.

        Your story was really interesting, and I am very happy that you were able to overcome their hold on you! I hope more people find their own ways out somehow and this cult breaks its hold on the thousands it still has. Those within the ‘walls’ (both figuratively, and physically from what I have read in some cases ….) need to do some research, like you did, and they need to get a better understanding of what they are a part of, and how they can get away from its grasp! Again, I wish you and your family well ….your story is truly amazing with such a great outcome!

        • Sylvia Wagner DeWall

          A truly humble response. Bravo for you. Humility and a willingness to say “Hey. Maybe I can learn something new”, seems to be a rare commodity these days. I certainly didn’t have that ability while under the influence of LRH (unless of course it was in reference to HIS and ONLY his philosophy). Thank you for your positive remarks. We are very happy to be out and truly free. 🙂

  • Elizabeth Lavet

    In first grade it was impressed on us that as Americans we are unique, we are the land of the free and the brave. Anytime anyone even hints to me that talking and thinking is something that will need correction and will cost me money my alarm bells go off. We have always fought for freedom, and somebody is going to tell me I will have more cause over life but I cannot talk, I cannot complain or suggest changes, and I cannot look and listen. Wooow doggie. I don’t think so. Red Flags, Red Flags, screeching halt.

  • Elizabeth Lavet

    I have noticed scientology organization tries to make sure husbands and wives spend little time together, interrupts the bound between the two, puts the fear of communication and reason with a significant other, so you cannot ground yourself and will not know what the other will do.

  • cyninoregon

    Sylvia’s husband rocks. The entire family is fortunate to have both a mom who cares about people (the real crime that angered the phony church was her caring about the people the Co$ was trying to throw away), a dad who puts his family before any other interests, and two parents ready to admit their mistake and correct it asap. Great examples for everyone in all kinds of crises.

  • WOG with Attitude

    There’s a Scientologists on Twitter who seems to think this is all hunky dorey. She’s delusional. The declare is nothing more than an arbitrary’ kangaroo court. It’s Kafkaesque in its cruelty.

    The upside: this family could still be stuck as prisoners of this vile organization and their children and grandchildren would be destroyed by the cult as well. As horrific and painful as this was, it was better than lifetimes of slavery, doing everything at the behest of the cult.

    Kudos to the DeWalls!

  • Rod Iron

    This was an amazing story told very well.

  • Fred

    I’m fiberglassed with all this, the prospect of loosing touch with her kids and husband because of the most basic and natural thing, curiosity and the ability to learn and discuss, i’m glad Madam you are fine with your family and i congratulate your husband also by his humane and right choice to stand by you and your family, i’m just amazed how this can still continue? This cult is like domestic terrorism, we are talking each day of Islamic fundamentalism but these thugs destroy families and lives, not with bombs or AK’s but with disconnection and sick indocrination, they have all the ideas of Fascism and Communist systems and the later on it’s worst phase while Stalin was in power, i’m just amazed this can exist on USA and some western countries.

  • sickofit

    geez, the thought police..this is so 1984..insane