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Louis Theroux’s ‘My Scientology Movie’: A hilarious take on an unfunny bunch

Louis_Theroux_LFF

Louis Theroux at the London premiere of ‘My Scientology Movie’ (Still from interview by Scarlet Howes.)

 
A couple of years ago, BBC presenter Louis Theroux made an appeal on Twitter for Scientologists to reach out to him for the new film he was making about the church. We couldn’t help rolling our eyes at the time, wondering if Theroux knew what he was getting himself into. But his method was sound. He wanted to come at the story with an entirely fresh start. He asked Scientology for access, and he genuinely wanted to hear from Scientologists about their organization.

Early in My Scientology Movie, the film he premiered last night at the London Film Festival, Theroux says that he relished the idea of being the first journalist who would find something positive to say about Scientology. If you know his excellent body of work, you know that such a counter-intuitive take is just like Theroux. And of course he’s right — it really would have been remarkable if he’d been able to pull that off.

But then, reality sunk in. He soon realized that Scientology wasn’t going to give him any access at all. And the only church members he then ran into tended to be carrying cameras or were in some other way stalking him.

How then would Theroux make a film about Scientology without the interviews he’s known for, and when he was aware that Alex Gibney and HBO were going to get to market first with Going Clear, a super-serious and devastating takedown of the church using the recollections of some of its most remarkable former members? (Disclosure: Your proprietor appears in Going Clear, and also is thanked at the end of My Scientology Movie for providing some minor help answering background questions about Scientology. We received no payment in either project.)

Facing that daunting challenge, producer Simon Chinn and director John Dower conspired with Theroux to come up with a completely off-the-wall idea. They would explore some of the main themes about Scientology’s reputation by hiring actors to recreate key scenes, using dialogue from actual court documents or past interviews. And, to make sure that they were re-creating scenes as accurately as possible, they’d use the expertise of Mark “Marty” Rathbun, a man who was once the second-highest ranking official in the organization. They even had Rathbun write some scenes and dialogue for the actors in order to re-create what life was like in Scientology’s hellish private prison, “the Hole.”

We have to admit, we didn’t see that coming. And it soon became obvious it was an approach that was going to raise some excellent questions about the nature of Scientology, the challenges of understanding the church from the outside, and also the credibility of Rathbun and other former members who have so often been quoted by the press.

And all that while being a laugh riot.

With Marty’s help, Theroux casts an actor as Scientology leader David Miscavige, and another as Tom Cruise. With other young people playing Sea Org members, Theroux and Rathbun set out to re-create on a Hollywood sound stage the Scientology experience where it is at its most hardcore: Int Base in the California desert about 90 miles east of Los Angeles.

In Going Clear, where Lawrence Wright and Mike Rinder simply talk about what Scientology auditing is like, here Marty Rathbun actually takes Theroux into an auditing session using an e-meter. Rathbun also puts the young actors through some of Scientology’s beginning exercises, including “bullbaiting,” which has one Scientologist screaming and gesturing to make his subject flinch. With Rathbun bullbaiting Theroux and then having Theroux yell at an ashtray in another infamous Scientology exercise, the film reaches a level of absurdity that even an e-meter couldn’t measure, but we couldn’t look away or stop laughing.

And almost from the start, there’s a palpable tension that grows between Rathbun and Theroux. If you know Theroux’s interviewing style, you know that his deadpan delivery really isn’t an act. It’s how he questions anyone, but it often means that the person he’s interviewing is eventually going to look foolish. Here, Rathbun mostly seems to be in on the joke, but over time he begins to have less and less patience with Theroux as Louis keeps bringing up why Rathbun’s own role in the church as an enforcer doesn’t taint his testimony now, as a whistleblower.

In the meantime, as that notion simmers, Theroux makes excellent use of other former church members. Steven Mango talks about how Scientology lures in young aspiring Hollywood types. Tom DeVocht relates his personal experience as David Miscavige’s drinking partner. Marc Headley twice takes Theroux to visit Int Base, and also helps him cast his Tom Cruise. Jefferson Hawkins, meanwhile, gives some of the best testimony in the film, explaining why someone could stay in Scientology for so long despite the abuses in the Sea Org.

And we have to give special praise to Andrew Perez, the actor who was selected to play David Miscavige. It was electric to see Rathbun react to Andrew’s reading of lines from the 1992 Nightline interview Miscavige gave to Ted Koppel. “Did you see that? He’s got it, he’s got that edge,” Rathbun says excitedly to Theroux, like it’s extremely satisfying to him to see Miscavige brought to life in his presence. And it’s a little otherworldly to watch Rathbun beaming as, later in the movie, he observes Perez channeling Miscavige in a re-creation of “The Hole,” screaming at actors playing Sea Org members, smashing things, and pushing people around.

Rathbun seems to love it. But he’s less happy when Theroux wants his actors to applaud in the direction of an L. Ron Hubbard portrait. Suddenly, Rathbun seems completely out of sorts, and, like the look on Theroux’s face, we were dumbstruck. What’s Marty’s problem?

Meanwhile, the actual Church of Scientology keeps butting in, confirming its long-earned reputation by sending private investigators and freelance cameramen and nosy church members to get in Theroux’s face while the preternaturally calm Englishman takes the piss out of them, adroitly filming the people who have been sent to film him.

Finally, there’s a climactic moment when a visit by creepy Scientologists combines with Theroux’s penetrating (but entirely fair) questions to send Rathbun over the edge.

And what do we learn from it? We’re not entirely sure what our fellow film-goers, particularly those new to the world of Scientology, will take away. We’re seeing some press reviews suggesting that they liked this film because it was more charitable to Scientology than Going Clear, but that’s hard to support with what actually takes place on the screen. By the end of the movie, Theroux has come to understand that, yes, Scientology and its hardcore believers really are that humorless and extreme in their worldview. And he seems to have great respect for the likes of Headley, Mango, and Hawkins, even if he also wants us to see Rathbun as a deeply troubled character who is more complex than other press accounts have revealed.

As much as Theroux is known for not taking sides, in the end he seems all but convinced that the Hole and its horrific conditions actually did exist, and that Scientology’s outright denials just aren’t credible. And this is a Louis Theroux film, so he’s taken you on this journey while making you crack up simply by the way he pauses when you’re dying for him to say something. His comedic timing is truly incredible.

My Scientology Movie also entertained us with its gorgeous soundtrack and the repeated denials from the church that look comical spelled out on the big screen. In the end, Simon Chinn and John Dower and Louis Theroux have produced a penetrating look at Scientologists — current and former — and they found a way to introduce Scientology’s many wacky concepts while being downright hilarious. We enjoyed this film a great deal, and we think you will too.

OK, now a couple of criticisms. If the movie’s strength is located in the way Theroux puts Marty Rathbun on the spot while, at the same time, Scientology itself keeps trying to barge in with its camera-wielding crazies, we found that this also limited the film’s impact. Boiling things down to whether Marty Rathbun is reliable or not made for some good drama, but it does a real disservice to the many people who share stories similar to Rathbun but who were not themselves enforcers or spies.

Where, for example, are the women? Theroux claims that only members of the Sea Org go through the worst that Scientology can dish out. But that’s just not true. Talk to Cindy Plahuta. Or Lori Hodgson. Or Sara Goldberg. Or Karen de la Carriere. None of them were in the Sea Org when their families were ripped apart because they fell afoul of David Miscavige.

Theroux amply proves that you can get Scientology to follow you if you start pointing cameras at its facilities. But repeatedly while watching the film we wanted to scream: Scientology’s worst abuses have nothing to do with tailing journalists!

Not once are Scientology’s most controversial practices even brought up: Disconnection, which destroys families. Forcing Sea Org women to have abortions from about 1982 to 2010. Pressuring members to bankrupt themselves in order to pay for elusive “super powers.” Using methods much worse than tailing people to “Fair Game” the church’s perceived enemies.

And let’s talk about Marty Rathbun’s credibility for a moment. We’ve certainly had similar incidents with him, when our questions about his past as an enforcer enraged him. But does that make anything he has revealed unreliable? Theroux brings up the reliability of Rathbun numerous times in his film, but we wanted to ask him, can you point to a single thing that Rathbun (or Mike Rinder, for that matter) has ever said about Scientology that turned out to be untrue?

The stories told by Rathbun and Rinder are corroborated by many others, and by documents. We keep printing what they tell us because they have never told us anything that didn’t check out. Their stories about The Hole are backed up by Jeff Hawkins and Tom DeVocht and Marc Headley and John Brousseau and Debbie Cook (who testified about conditions in the Hole while under oath in a court of law).

Maybe it was just for legal reasons — England’s libel laws having been reformed, but still not to be trifled with — that Theroux repeatedly talks about admiring Scientologists for their dedication to producing a new kind of world free of war and insanity. But how honest is that statement when Theroux has witnessed first hand that Scientology turns perfectly normal people into deluded zealots obsessed with discipline and ready to destroy people it considers enemies?

We give Louis Theroux a lot of credit for finding a compelling and entertaining way to put Marty Rathbun’s reliability as a narrator into question. But at the end of his really excellent movie, we couldn’t help wondering if Theroux’s own reliability doesn’t end up being put into question (which, knowing Theroux, he probably wouldn’t object to in the least). Does he really feel, as he said in a description of his film he wrote for the Guardian yesterday, that Scientology is just like any other religion?

Maybe Rathbun ought to put him on the cans for that one. What’s your withhold, Louis?

 
Louis_Theroux_Karen_DLC

Louis Theroux and Karen de la Carriere after the screening of ‘My Scientology Movie.’

 
——————–

BOOK NOTES
3D-Unbreakable

We didn’t get a chance to include photos in our book, so we’ve posted them at a dedicated page. Reader Sookie put together a complete index and we’re hosting it here on the website. Copies of the paperback version of ‘The Unbreakable Miss Lovely’ are on sale at Amazon. The Kindle edition is also available, and shipping instantly.

Tony Ortega’s upcoming appearances (and check out the interactive map to our ongoing tour)…

 
Oct 23: Sydney, Giant Dwarf Theatre (with Steve Cannane and Bryan Seymour)

Oct 25: Melbourne, The Wheeler Centre, 3 pm, free but reservations recommended (with Steve Cannane)

Oct 28: Adelaide, Wheatsheaf Hotel, (with Sen. Nick Xenophon)

Oct 30: Perth, Collins Street Centre, Collins St and Shaftesbury St, South Perth, 7 pm

Past dates: Santa Barbara (5/16), Hollywood (5/17), Orange County (5/17), San Diego (5/20), San Francisco (5/22), New York (6/11), Chicago (6/20), Toronto (6/22), Clearwater (6/28), Washington DC (7/12), Hartford (7/14), Denver (7/17), Dallas (7/20), Houston (7/22), San Antonio (7/24), Austin (7/25), Paris (7/29), London (8/4), Boston (8/24), Phoenix (9/15), Cleveland (9/23), Minneapolis (9/24), Portland (9/27), Seattle (9/28), Vancouver BC (9/29)

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on October 15, 2015 at 02:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of LA attorney and former church member Vance Woodward

UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists

GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice

SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer
The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill
The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

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  • Sunny

    I think Scientology should make and release their own documentary.
    It’s only fair.
    I would watch it. I think. Only if Jeff Pomerantz does the talking….

    • Beth

      I would gladly watch it too.

  • nottrue

    That reminds me of Jack Benny….

  • Jimmy3

    But he’s less happy when Theroux wants his actors to applaud in the direction of an L. Ron Hubbard portrait. Suddenly, Rathbun seems completely out of sorts, and, like the look on Theroux’s face, we were dumbstruck. What’s Marty’s problem?

    Hmmm… Let’s check the directions..

    1. Pour Kool-Aid powder into a large jug
    2. Add 200g of sugar or equivalent sweetener
    3. Add 2 liters of water; stir
    4. Optional: add ice to chill
    5. DO NOT DRINK! Pour contents of jug down the drain after leaving cult

    Ahhh, I see! There’s his problem. He skipped a step.

    • flyonthewall

      It was adding the sugar wasn’t it? He also misread step 5. That Kool-Aid he drank was very bitter.

      • Jimmy3

        You have successfully out-smartassed me this round, but we will play again soon.

        • flyonthewall

          Costello is nothing without his Abbott

          • Science Doc

            You couldn’t get to first base with Abbott and Costello.

      • There may be no happy ending for Marty’s story without willingness to seek treatment for the PTSD that has haunted him since before he joined the cult. He’s spoken often about his original “ruin,” his mentally ill mother and her mistreatment and his brother’s suicide. These were an untreated scar on his psyche for decades. Add other events, like a blod soaked person dying in his arms and then Miscavige’s continuous pressure on him and all the nasty, life-crushing opps he oversaw on others and you’ve got one scary skull to live in.

        Marty is a complicated character, and whatever his mental state today (I’m not a psychologist, nor do I play one on TV), having lived with a BPD/PTSD sufferer through the ’90s, I have empathy for him and an all too familiar solidarity with his victims.

        • Edward Clarke

          Artoo, put me out of my misery – where does the ‘play one on TV’ gag originate?

          • Robert Eckert
            • Edward Clarke

              I’d never seen that but the gag was recently recycled in somewhere else. Can’t remember where though.

            • Robert Eckert

              It’s a US ad which depends on housewives representing a soap-opera character, so it would never run over on your side of the pond.

          • Cece

            The Grandfather recent episode Mon?

          • Kestrel

            A TV commercial.

          • The original commercial first aired in 1984 and it was hawking Vicks Formula 44 cough syrup. The actor was Chris Robinson, who portrayed Dr. Rick Webber on General Hospital. The campaign was successful, but has gone meta and become a cultural meme along with other lines from terrible commercials like “Not on my fresh salad” and “I’ve fallen down and I can’t get up.”

      • Robert Eckert

        No, I think he has a problem with chilling.

        • flyonthewall

          maybe Chill EB could help him with that? I’m sorry, that was pretty bad

  • Panopea Abrupta

    Red-X Red-X Red-X
    Thursday – apocalyptic conniptions day in Hemet
    I’ll Red-X while I wait and get my stats up 🙂

    We take their bait and switch fraudulent ads down. Join us.
    Two ways – Flag them (Red-X) and via a complaint to CL Quick reminder
    RedX tips & Complaints procedure are now included in the google doc under the RedXTips tab.
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-Kvg78kCcvo5gL7UfPcmhmbsagTNtdj0y2LAiHVFrCU/pubhtml

    Tick Tock, “Karin” – no reply to Theroux yet?
    You must not be pleasant company at the moment
    Wait ’til Leah’s book hits!

    • Graham

      The Streisand one is brilliant! Worth using on a regular basis.

  • Observer

    On a conference call to which I can contribute next to nothing, because I’m the one who found and reported a major problem. As they say, no good deed goes unpunished. Thank Xenu for the Bunker and mobile devices.

    • Jimmy3

      Was the major problem that there are way too many conference calls?

      • Observer

        Ha! No, it was that checks which had been ordered and were approved were not actually being cut by the system.

        EDIT: fortunately I don’t have to be involved in the cleanup

        • Jimmy3

          That does seem like a major problem.

          • Robert Eckert

            Agreeing to pay out money, and then avoiding the actually-pay-the-money step, sounds like a win-win solution to me!

            • Observer

              Until it brings the Feds down on you.

            • Jimmy3

              I pay for everything in compliments. Maybe Observer should suggest that in her meeting.

            • Observer

              Brilliant! Doing it now!

        • Observer

          W00t! I contributed!

        • Observer

          Well, poo. I DO have to be involved in the cleanup. Sigh.

          • Kestrel

            Punishment of the innocent? Used to happen to me all the time when I found something happening that wasn’t supposed to, or like yours, something not happening that should. I got a nice “thank you” card once. Once.

          • Sherbet

            Insist that it doesn’t intrude on your Bunker time.

      • Robert Eckert

        It is now.

    • Science Doc

      Post the call in information for us and we will give everyone some feedback so it won’t happen again.

    • flyonthewall

      I have a mildly funny work story – I asked the client if he needed anything else. He says, ” No, I don’t deserve anything else.” Totally deadpan, I cracked up.

      • I say that when they ask me at a store if I have one of their “Rewards” cards.

    • “no good deed goes unpunished”

      Bears repeating.

  • Sherbet

    “Tom Reynolds” seems to have left the building after failing at confronting (well, he did that), and shattering, and not understanding the concept of dialog or discussion. He dropped a few stinkbombs, upvoted himself, and took off. I think he read all the Bunker arguments against his pro-sci statements, and he saw the error of his ways and will be back as a true Bunkeroo.

    Nah, I don’t really think that.

    • Edward Clarke

      Truth is, I signed back on as Eddie, and then realised I’d forgotten Tom’s password.

      • Sherbet

        🙁 Don’t believe it.

    • 2pm came by, more like it.

  • randomity

    Just curious… was Rathbun involved in the Miscavige power grab of the early 80s, or did he enter the picture later?

  • Science Doc

    Karin Pouw is about to slam the door on all the bad press. F5

    • Supper Powers

      Their social media is quiet on Thoreaux.

  • nottrue

    …scientology money drill….

    • Observer

      Washburn was the one we thwarted in the phone system contest awhile back. If this is real this makes their attempts to get the free system even more despicable. >:-(

      • flyonthewall

        I remember that. We thwarted them good

    • flyonthewall

      In My Billion Year Contract, Nancy Many wrote about doing “money drills” at the org in Boston back in the day. According to her they did it to desensitize them to money and make it easier to take large amounts of money off marks, I mean pre-clears.

    • Nat-leficent
      • Scream Nevermore

        I watch Hoarders so I feel less guilty about not deep cleaning the house every day! And i love cats, but that is scary – tell me it’s not real!

        • Kestrel

          The housecoat? Yup. It’s real.

        • HillieOnTheBeach

          A friend of mine’s mother was a pathological hoarder living alone. She fell and broke her hip in her bedroom. Daughter not being able to get in touch with her mom asked a neighbor to check on her. She had gone without help for approximately 24 hours. When help finally arrived, the house was so bad, ambulance technicians took a few more hours to get her out. Daughter and neighbors had no idea how bad the house had become.

          Though the woman’s injury wasn’t catastrophic, doctors refused to release her to return to such a hazardous house. She whithered and passed away a few months later.

          It was shocking to me because my memories of her in my youth were that of a jovial, kind and very beautiful woman. Her end saddened me very much; she didn’t deserve such an illness.

          • Scream Nevermore

            Poor woman – she’s lucky nothing fell on her while she was waiting for help. People on the programme seem to have it triggered by a traumatic event like a family death. Maybe that’s what happened to her.

            • HillieOnTheBeach

              You may have a point. I don’t know the details of her life, but I am aware of at least three tragedies that befell that family that any one of which would challenge anyone’s strength of character. The third one, death of her husband (50+ year marriage) from post-op complications may have done her in. The timeline seems to fit.

    • Sherbet

      I don’t know what the intention is, but this exercise reminds me of “The Secret.” Sit back and postulate it (wealth), and it will come to you. And it worked…for the author of “The Secret.”

      • Draco

        Yes – the Guru always gets the big bucks.

      • Ann Ashley

        I think the intention is “be willing to waste” in order to move up to being “able to have.
        Translation: superstition.

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      I could vomit.

      $cientology – Always finding a new low.

  • Cece

    I’m a bit disappointed after reading your review. But just a tiny bit. Along will come Leah’s book and Mark Bunkers film and all the while there are so many stories to be told and listened to and lost souls searching to find a home. The agony and pain of betrayal and the possible lose of loved ones will be hard but it is all so worth it. After a few years of un-indoctrination it does start to calm down.
    Yesterday I got an unexpected text from a friend “meet me at the gate” it said. My stomach immediately went into a knot and anxiety set in instantly. I recognized it as a reminder of all the countless times being demanded to drop what I was doing no matter what and appear front and center to the Exec Council, Captain’s office, CLO Finance office, once looked up from my desk and ED Int was standing in front of it with some 5 other guys in Navy outfits, to the Flag Finance office at the HGB, to the Security Guards with golden rod in their hand to take me to the RPF.
    I am so relieved there is no longer that threat hanging over my head anymore and I know where these feeling were coming from for some 20 years later. I can now work on handling my immediate life. It’s the education from those before me and the lightness from the never-ins that has made this possible. Hugs

    • villagedianne

      I think what you experienced is called PTSD.

      • Cece

        Yes, exactly. Triggers.

    • Oh for a time machine and a jumbo super-soaker eh?

    • Scream Nevermore

      It’s like a friend of mine who sometimes can’t sleep on a Friday night, because growing up, Friday night was the night her father had a drink and came home and got into fights with her mother, and not uncommonly got violent. Her younger sibling would wake her up and ask her to ‘save mum’. So she stopped sleeping so she would be ready to leap into action. Took her ages to stop being afraid on a Friday. But like her, hopefully you’ll get to the point where the fear/stress fades a bit, and only rears its head on occasion.

      • Cece

        Yes, and more importantly I know where it comes from so really could care less about it happening now. I just chuckled about it and went and met my friend at the gate for a hug.

        • Scream Nevermore

          See? Now you have friends to hug you – hugs help to keep the demons away!

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Cece, I am so glad you are out and yo can just meet a friend at the gate because you want to!

    • Draco

      “once looked up from my desk and ED Int was standing in front of it with some 5 other guys in Navy outfits,”
      That just makes me so angry. Seriously – 6 guys? Talk about intimidation tactics. Bloody cowards.
      So happy you are out here with us Cece. xxx
      Enjoy life 🙂

      • Cece

        Oh and I was directed to an ‘auditing’ room with Phil C behind the meter asking questions and ED Int and the 5 guys including our COs comm Randall Reese standing behind him. On the way ED Int told me if I come clean I will not be sent to the RPF. I came squeaky clean (didn’t have anything to withhold in the least) and was then sent to the RPF anyway. That was just after the Mission massacre and ED Int was going around with the Finance Police. The RPF needed to be manned to build Incomm IIRC. Thats when I met Karen#1 and lots of wonderful persons for management I never would have known (smile). Thanks for your kind thoughts for me 🙂 And I AM enjoying life …. so much I have to pinch myself tehe.

  • JaxNGold

    I’m pretty disappointed with Theroux’s commentary about “same as other religions” and “admiring Scientologists for their dedication to producing a world free of war and insanity”. Come on. Let’s get serious. They’re all about war: war against each other, war against exes, war against critics, war against psychiatry. And no insanity?? Insanity is their specialty for crying out loud.

  • “Scientologists for their dedication to producing a new kind of world free of war and insanity.” That’s very funny, but I’m not laughing. Dedication = MASS DELUSION. I think back to Yvonne Jentzsch at a Celebrity Centre “staff muster” at lunch in the Wilcox Hotel telling everyone that Henry Kissinger was a KGB agent, or telling me that she recalled in session where her spaceship was buried. “Why don’t you go get it?” I asked. “It isn’t safe,” she replied. Or the “Prayer Day” event in Anaheim when she and Heber were flown there by Chris Reeve, who’d just arrived in town to play Superman – the pitch was $cientology was cooperating with all religions for the big world peace push, when all they gave a damn about was making the cult respected, and showing off Chris Reeve and other celebrities. An ad in CC’s “New Civilization” tabloid in the 70s is what tricked me into coming out here. No regrets – I made all my own choices – but $cientology working to free the world of war and insanity is it’s #2 lie after the #1 whopper of “$cientology works.” Should be “Hypnotism will get you, just watch.” Why don’t Rinder and Rathbun talk about their black ops days? Because they both probably did a WHOLE BUNCH of completely illegal shit and they’re worried about getting sued or even going to jail. They were both total assholes when in their positions of power in the cult and I’m not sure I buy that they’ve totally changed. Some like Tom DeVocht have people fooled about not being evil any more, while operating in personal relationships like complete psychopaths.

    • villagedianne

      I don’t agree that Rathbun, Rinder, and DeVoght can’t or haven’t changed. I think people develop a “cult personally” while inside. But I love your personal recollections of people and events in those earlier days.

      • 0tessa

        The ‘cult personality’: is there such a thing? Any research on that?

        • B4you
          • villagedianne

            Thanks, B4you, good wiki page, but I was referring to “cult personality”, not cult of personality. I can’t find research on it because google pulls up “cult of personality”, even when I put “cult personality” in quotes. It’s a term I’ve heard ex-Scientologists use to describe a set of beliefs and behaviors indoctrinated in them by COS. Behaviors which they felt were not native to them, but were brought on by the indoctrination, and which they had to learn to drop later. An example might be something like, “When my friend criticized Hubbard, my cult personality kicked in and I screamed that she was an enemy of mankind.” It’s what made Jenna Elfman ask critics if they had “raped a baby.”

            • 0tessa

              The same with me. But I found a personality type described by Shapiro. See my comment.

            • villagedianne

              Thanks. Shapiro describes what I was referring to.

            • B4you

              Funny… I have been searching for stuff like cult-phenomenon or like this “personality” because i think it’s a valid definition and there must be a word for it. I know what you referring too when you say “cult personality” .- The Cult personality IMO should be found in a parallel culture that is hidden because they protect something. .-The “raped a baby” comes from LRH confessionals and the idea behind this, is to ask about something really bad (on meter), so what ever the person, is not telling, looks like a “walk in the park”. Jenna is just stupid!

          • 0tessa

            Thanks. I’m going to read it.
            Are you familiar with the book ‘Cults and the Family’, by Shapiro?
            He defines a destructive cult as a sociopathic syndrome, whose distinctive qualities include: ‘behavioral and personality changes, loss of personal identity, cessation of scholastic activities, estrangement from family, disinterest in society and pronounced mental control and enslavement by cult leaders’.
            You could say that the sociopathic cult leader turns his/her followers into sociopaths, or at least into persons with a sociopathic personality disorder.

            • B4you

              No! haven’t had the chance. But the Cult thingy interest me, also because i start to recognize cult patterns in other groups. Even our politicians is starting to see this inside their own parties. There are also those who argue that there is Cult’s and then there is Destructive Cults 🙂

        • villagedianne

          See my reply to B4you below.

      • I believe they’ve all changed. I’d say most demonstrably in a couple of instances. What I don’t see completely, however, is the kind of change I personally witnessed in numerous friends who were kind of hardasses at CCLA, such as Chris Many who as ethics officer kept me up for three days once, no sleep, while “working up the ethics conditions.” Chris mellowed out quite a bit. Some of them ended up pretty broken, and I’ve had to do a lot of common sense counseling over the years with them. Like Tony said, he hasn’t seen real tell-alls about black ops and there were plenty.

        • villagedianne

          Chris Many and I grew up in the same town in upstate New York. He was in my brother’s graduating class, a grade above me. I didn’t know him or hang out with him but it is a small town and everybody kind of knew everybody in school, at least by sight. It really adds a dimension of creepiness to think that somebody I saw around the halls in school, a popular, well-adjusted, well-liked guy, perpetrated this torture on you. It really brings home what the cult does to people. I’m glad he’s out.

          • I didn’t consider it torture at the time. I was basically amazed by it and was curious to see if I could take the worst the cult could dish out. I also thought Many might know something I didn’t know – but no, he was just a programmed ethics jackass then. At the time, I really didn’t have any place else to go and I was trying to stay on staff and in L.A. Nothing I did helped, though – people were pretty vicious in those days looking for “whos” on why CCLA would have failures, and I’d gotten picked after being Treasury Secretary on the almost bankrupt and insane Axioms Productions, which made the Dianetics 73 radio campaign and had staff members like Spanky Taylor. I ended up (even after doing my “formulas”) kicked out and back in Austin, Texas with only $5 in my pocket and knowing only one person there. It wasn’t the first time I was made homeless by connection with $cientology.

    • Edward Clarke

      Oh no… DeVoght is my favourite of the talking exes. Sounds like such a good guy now. Disappointing to hear he still has problems (if true).

      • Sookie Sookie

        (if true)

        Exactly. Credibility is as credibility (and creepibility) does.

        • Nat-leficent

          ^^^^x1000

        • Sid

          I worked in Tom’s area when he was in and found him to be quite personable. My observation anyway.

      • Now I’m sure he’s better. When he was not long out and utterly screwed over a female friend of mine mentally, emotionally, and spiritually, not so much.

    • Todd Tomorrow

      You’d have to be a psychopath just to survive being married to Jenny Linson.

      • Supper Powers

        True dat! Ha!

      • villagedianne

        I’ve read that Jenny Linson wasn’t always like that. Fascinating how the cult can change people.

        • Sherbet

          Somebody recently posted two pictures of Jenny, one from years ago and one from the airport encounter. What a difference!

          • It wasn’t that many years ago. 1998 or so, I think. Everyone experiences wear and tear on the highway of life, but she looked like she’d had a few head-ons.

            • Sherbet

              It was the eyes. From normal woman to Children of the Damned.

          • I know every inch of myself!

            • Sherbet

              Keep ’em to yourself, ‘k? We don’t need to see.

            • villagedianne

              Talking about your sex life again?

            • Draco

              And not a scratch or a bruise in sight!

            • HillieOnTheBeach

              Actually, the “I know every inch of [his] body” line was former Mrs. Rinder’s line. Jenny Linson seems to accidentally repeat it later and an brief jolt and awkward pause seems to indicate she overstepped what was rehearsed.

        • HillieOnTheBeach

          Knowing the fate of her predecessors (more still in than out) would plausibly be a strong motivator for “change”.

      • I take great offense at that $#@$#^% statement!

        • Todd Tomorrow

          Jenny, just because I quit returning your virulent texts after trying to buy a Cinnamon at LAX you have a right to be angry. And i don’t care if my Tr’s are terrible! Take a good look in the mirror for 64, yah don’t look so good. And removing my wallet while we were in the stall has been reported to not only the LA Port Police but to the local police! You make white trash, look top drawer! “Inch of his body..”, sounds like a B side to a crummy, Madonna album. Nobody cares…

      • Amen. What I haven’t figured out (or bothered to find out) is whether she’s related to movie producer Art Linson and Art’s sister Donna who is married to musician Mark Ingram.

    • Supper Powers

      I find the insistence for atonement defined by others interesting. I understand wanting an explanation and/or apology and/or demonstration of change. I also understand that they may feel they do not owe anyone anything and they, too, were seriously mind fucked. I don’t know who is owed what, but I know I am grateful Marty, Mike and Tom speak out even if they are flawed.

      ETA And I’m glad you speak out here, too, Skip.

      • What I’m looking for – and it could be a wild goose chase – is exposure of real crimes that could put Lil Davey in jail, and I wonder if any of the formers are holding back on revealing things they were participatory in because exposing it could also put them in jail. Kind of a Nixon’s plumbers kind of deal.

        • Supper Powers

          I understand. I suppose if the FBI wanted it bad enough and the scenario you envision is true, Rathbun, Rinder et al would receive immunity. It circles back to the FBI or others not willing to take it on that is the real problem. IMO.

    • Susie Serve

      The Nazis were after “world peace and an end to all of the insanity,” too. That is, after all of the “hopelessly flawed” were removed from the face of the earth, with an ever-expanding list of “enemies” who needed to be murdered, encamped, tortured, asphixiated alive – men, women , children, artists, rebels, homosexuals, anyone with any association whatsoever outside of the realm of the propogated dogma. Madmen historically have little problem finding helpers, who for a multitude of excuses are willing to surrender their free will and consciences. When these enlisted minions begin to change their minds they too are found to be face-to-face with the very inhumanity that they initially supported. The isolationism within the ranks of Scientology which has hidden its criminal nature cannot and will not stand. Please do not imagine that I am, or ever would equate the tragedies of the times of World War II with the smaller scale of Scientology. However, the methods of madness perpetrated remain the horribly similar. There is a distinct battle between the forces of good and evil perpetually ongoing, throughout world history and behind many closed doors, simply in familial settings, within schools and corporations, on comment blogs, in politics and on and on and on. Individuals have to choose their battles and to be ready to risk everything.

      • Ben Franklin

        Why can’t it be just a debate and battle of ideas? Why do individuals have to be ready to risk everything?

        • Susie Serve

          How sweet it’d be if living were only a battle of ideas and just a debate. Sometimes risking everything is all that one has left to risk.

    • “Hypnotism will get you, just watch.”

      Aw c’mon. Try it. Just once.

      • I should have said “disguised hypnotism” which is what Elwrong used continually. In case you’ve never seen me state this before, I was thanked in a book by a well-known “hypnotist to the stars” for my help with his book, and he used to get paid by Humbug to develop processes that Sea Org members in uniform would pick up. I’m also friends with an internationally known hypnotist who co-wrote a book with the Grandfather of American Hypnotism. I’ve undergone hypnosis post-$cientology to see what it was all about as well.

    • Judith Sylvester

      …”operating in personal relationships like complete psychopaths.”

      After describing Tom DeVocht’s behavior by the phrase “complete psychopath”, I wonder, what vocabulary is left for poor Jeffrey Dahmer?

    • 0tessa

      Rathbun, Rinder, DeVocht have to get a grip on the fact they have been temporarily turned into sociopaths (Shapiro: ‘Cults and the Family’). Some of them have been acting like that for many years. I cannot imagine how long it will take and how painful it must be to get rid of this ‘neuron network’ in your brain.

      • I think you nailed it there, a reshaping of neural networks, thanks for the insight.

    • StudentOfLife

      I remember when Bishop Tutu was appointed to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission which allowed former apartheid henchmen to assimilate back into society. Should we have one for former Scilons, lol? I have commented that I think Marty has a right to ‘decompress’ and I believe there is only so much one can absorb as to taking responsibility for their actions. Getting Clear points out Marty is only alive because rage prevented a wronged family member from saving a bullet for him. Soldiers follow orders. Even our USA men did at My Lai and Peck’s account was very true; good men may commit evil when there is no transparency or questioning of orders. I know my OT2 friend will lie through her teeth to defend LieIntology and she means to be honest. Should former Scilons never be allowed to change towards making amends and grow? I believe Marty will speak when the time is right at the trial of the four foot thirteen psychopath David Miscavige. Remember that Monique’s lawsuit is coming to a head very soon. Even if wronged (I was never-in but still wronged, lol) I believe I would be able to forgive Marty. Rinder just got past his own shame a lot faster and found his current niche.

      • I don’t expect saints. I just wonder if they really do have some nasty black ops to speak of and expose.

  • nottrue

    Note to scientology…..

  • Nat-leficent
    • villagedianne

      Sign me up. But with higher-denomination bills, please.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Looks like somebody had an accident at the titty-bar.

      Had to say it.

      • Kestrel

        Better you than me, though I was thinking it.

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        Looks like The Cheetah on a Friday night. LOL

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          …or so I have heard.

  • nottrue

    will take down whoops repost Tony meets JAW’s…..https://youtu.be/zjgr63LNbdw

    • Graham

      Saw this earlier but it bears re-posting. And re-posting, and re-posting….

    • Supper Powers

      Thanks. I hadn’t seen this. I love Pete.

  • willloomis

    I think I get where Marty is coming from: one re-enactment is cathartic because other people can witness what he saw and how messed up it is which can be comforting, but the other re-enactment is disturbing because he believed in Hubbard for a long time even after he got out of the church.

  • Nat-leficent
    • Sherbet

      I’m dense, and I don’t get this, Nat.

      • Nat-leficent
        • Sherbet

          Yes, I saw it, but I don’t get the hats.

          • flyonthewall

            i think the hats are suppose to be making them look gangsta

            • Miss Tia

              scumbag steve!!

          • Observer
            • Sherbet

              Thanks. Got it…NOW.

            • flyonthewall

              oohhh, thnx Obs, I never heard of this.

            • Observer

              And here I thought you were hip and fresh. I am disappoint.

            • flyonthewall

              it is hip to be square, does that count?

            • Observer

              No. Huey Lewis isn’t hip either.

            • flyonthewall

              now you’re just being cruel

            • Eileen

              Thanks for the info, Obs.
              Just spent an hour in the scumbag Steve rabbit hole. I felt bad for him till I recognized that he is not from Boston, lives in an affluent suburb, has a poodle for the family dog. Poseur.
              I hate it when people say they are from Boston, but they are really from Holliston or Framingham. We Bostonians are touchy about that stuff.

          • Nat-leficent

            They are internet shorthand for “scumbag”
            Look Sherb, the joke just isn’t that funny. Quit drawing attention to it XD

            • daisy

              It was funny, just a little worthwhile research.

    • Draco

      I played this game more than once in the Sea Org… never brought in one extra cent. So much for increasing our “havingness” on money.
      Mind you, they counted the money very carefully after the drill was over…

  • Bert Allen

    Thanks Tony for the report. I agree with all you said. I also long for Rinder and Rathbun to come clean about Black Ops in the 1980s and 1990s. I personally viewed a COS listening and viewing post manned by PIs set up next door to a COS enemy. They vacated that position after I knocked on the door.

  • gtsix

    What a lovely review. thanks Tony. hope you got some rest last night.

  • nottrue

    Well Louis did not upset scientology to much because I see no smear campaign…Yet

    • Scream Nevermore

      I’m finding the silence a bit un nerving.

      • villagedianne

        Like in the old Westerns, It would be nighttime and the guy would say “It’s quiet out there. Too quiet.

        • Scream Nevermore

          “I’m just going to check on the horses…” NOOOOOOOOO!!!!! 😉

    • Sunny

      It probably takes Miscavige (Er, I mean Karin, yeah, Karin) to make a statement. He is, after all, overseeing a huge international religion with unprecedented expansion.

      • Scream Nevermore

        But not in Texas.

        • Sunny

          When I was in Illinois and Saint Louis, I had PIs following me. When I moved to Texas it stopped. Hmmmmmm…. there way be something to it…..

          • Ben Franklin

            Could be something to do with the Laws in Texas, or in the worse case scenario they maybe found a plant to befriend you and therefore didn’t need the PIs to follow you anymore.

            • Kestrel

              Well, there’s a nice thought.

            • Ben Franklin

              Unfortunately, with Scientology one can never rule out these kind of things. If I am not mistaken, I believe, they tried to do this kind of thing to Mike Rinder too, but, they discovered the plant.

            • Kestrel

              Not to mention Paulette Cooper.

      • Draco

        f5…

    • Ben Franklin

      Maybe it is because the hurricane is still out there in the UK and DM does not want to bring it here quickly, I think once the American news media starts to run with it, that is when you might see the fireworks starting to fly.

    • villagedianne

      Is there a WhoIs website registered on Theroux?

    • Draco

      Maybe they finally got fed up with DM and threw him in a hole. f5

    • sizzle8

      The odds of him attending the premiere without OSA clearance are almost zero. As a long term Scientologist he knows the rules very well. There was an agenda whatever that was.

  • Draco

    Can’t wait to see it 🙂

  • Panopea Abrupta

    “HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
    Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
    HCO POLICY LETTER OF 3 FEBRUARY 1969

    PUBLIC IMAGE
    You can and must ally with real humanitarian and civil-rights groups (getting press coverage for every such contact).
    You can and must approach governors, parliamentary committees, big names, big activities and get press coverage for every contact.”

    How’s that working out for you, Dave?

    Leah, Steve Cannane and Jesse Prince – all with books about to hit.
    And Leah will have HUGE media access.

    What’s the plan here?
    InFineFettle, elle and JohninOkinawa trolling comment sections?
    Randy Stith, Joseph Taglieri and Norman Taylor with cameras?
    PIs with silencers?
    Anonymous diatribes in Shermanspeak with Karin’s name appended?

    Well done, COBlet. VVWD, Sir.

  • richelieu jr

    From the review here (nice job, BTW TOny– You coulda been a contender as a film critic!),

    it seems clear that Theroux has polished his usual po-faced British Michael Moore schtick with the ingenius approach of “The Act of Killing” and “The Look of Silence”, where the filmmakers got mass murderers to cast reenactments of their crimes, at ties using the actual victims (the few who survived) or their descendants.

    It is an interesting approach, the sort of thing we spent endless hours around a bong debating in Film School, but never got around to actually doing… If you haven’t seen these films, see them. Much less funny than Theroux (who I admire and enjoy, BTW) but absolutely amazing. Love or hate them, you have NEVER seen anything like them…

    C’mon guys– I can’t have been the only one to notice this!

    • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

      I believe I did see “The Act of Killing” mentioned in some articles leading up to the film. Whether that was officially part of the press kit, or whether some critics made the connection themselves, I don’t know. But I do know that doc was powerful and made me feel plenty uncomfortable.

      • richelieu jr

        It sure was, and thanks for the info– It’s true I’ve not read much of the press..

        (OOps! UPDATE– Just saw Guardain interview where he mentions it himself!)

  • TexasBroad

    I was doing a little Red-x’ing and cracked up when I saw this one… (No. 243 / Orange County)
    Do You Think You’re Nuts? Do you have thoughts that you shouldn’t? What about weird impulses and actions? Do other people think that you are crazy? Come join our group!Bwaaaahaaaahaaaaa

    • B4you

      I wonder what they are doing in that group?

      • TexasBroad

        Purification rundown, personality tests, and auditing.

    • romanesco

      Is the “Bwaaahaaahaaa” part yours? I’m tempted to start posting that one on Craigslist myself under the title, “SCAM ALERT–Beware of Bogus Scientology Ads!”

      • TexasBroad

        The BWAAAHAAA was mine! The post cracked me up. The place that posted it does not.

        It’s Scientology’s South Coast Mission. The worst part is they have a facebook page and a website which extols their “expert counseling” and offers marriage counseling, detoxification, treatment for depression, etc. but NO WHERE does it say “Scientology” – although that IS what it is. The Scie Cross is right on the building. The FB page and the website look very similar to any counseling center’s site that you would find —

        “…Instead, our highly trained and experienced counselors use effective counseling methodologies to help individuals find answers that actually work for them. Our proven counseling methods are backed by decades of research and application and have been used successfully by tens of thousands of people the world over.”

        • TexasBroad

          On their FB page, “About” section, listed under “awards”
          “International Birthday Game Champions, Marriage Counselor of the year–two years running”

          So the Scientology brand is SO toxic, even its own Mission doesn’t use it!!!!

          • Graham

            Scientology- the religion that dare not speak its name.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Not any more!

              Too toxic.

        • romanesco

          Wow, that certainly rates a scam notice.

          Tens of thousands. Hmmm. Well, at least they’re being a little more honest about the numbers of people they reach.

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          As long as they keep to their own sandbox, they can convincingly pull off their “uptone” charade. They have made a few attempts at outreach, and each time met with utter failure.

          I have followed the antics of the South Coast Mission to a certain extent because they are the ones who have the daughter of distraught and disconnected mother Cindy Plahuta on staff:
          http://tonyortega.org/2013/08/16/scientologists-say-the-darndest-things-in-their-disconnection-letters/

          They even went so far as to include a photo of Cindy on their Facebook page (refresh to see the attached). Seeing this, Cindy wrote to the Bunker to say:
          “This is my daughter, who is on staff at South Coast Mission of Scientology. She has been told by the ‘church’ to shun me and never speak to me again. I hope all my friends and family see this photo and let South Coast Mission know how evil it is for a ‘church’ to destroy the love between a mother and a daughter…”
          http://tonyortega.org/2013/04/22/margery-wakefield-has-something-to-say-about-scientology/

          • TexasBroad

            I don’t think presenting themselves (and being searchable) as a legitimate counseling service is keeping to their own sandbox. Their website looks every bit like so many counseling center websites I’ve seen when looking for one for myself and family members. When do they disclose that their “counseling” is auditing or that their detoxification (which they tout as a treatment for depression) is the Purif? People who are in vulnerable states will be looking for marriage counseling, for treatment for their child’s depression, etc. and will happen upon their sites and won’t know that it is Scientology! When do they find out? How do they find out?

            I hope Cindy gets her daughter back.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              By “their own sandbox,” I meant within their own protected little bubble. Yes, they reach out and draw people in. But when they have attempted to go out into the community, they have run up against the harsh reality that the world is on to the scam.

              Like you, I hope all the disconnected families get their loved one back.

            • TexasBroad

              I’m sorry – I did know what you meant. I just find it so appalling. I am happy to hear their outreach into the community is unsuccessful. Clearly they know the toxicity of their brand in that they removed it completely from their advertising. Uggghhh!

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              No harm. really. Just needed to clarify, and here we are, a Bunker full of hive-minded acolytes of cult-leader Tony Ortega…!

            • TexasBroad

              That’s ridiculous!
              (P.S. Hail Tony!)

            • Kay

              ^^^^^

          • Free Minds, Free Hearts

            Oh God, I am sick to death of these disconnections. I hope Cindy gets her lovely daughter back. Fuck this Cult.

      • Robert Eckert

        If you do post a counter-ad, say “WARNING” so the Red X software will highlight it. It has often happened that counter-ads have been scooped up for containing “Scientology” or suchlike keywords and then flagged by “Friendly Fire”

    • TexasBroad

      The WORST part of this, the part that has my blood pressure up, is LOOK at those questions. LOOK at who they are targeting. The people who can answer “YES” to those questions are people who sincerely NEED legitimate help, can NOT be helped by Scientology, and are the ones most likely to be damaged by the tech.

      • Kay

        You are right….those are sort of similar to psych eval screening questions, i.e. “do you have disturbing thoughts”. All those questions target people who have active mental health issues. arrrgghh

        • TexasBroad

          I know Kay. I’m in the middle of drafting a letter to the APA, but I have no idea whether they can do anything about it or not.

          • Kay

            I think that they are not fully aware of the extent of how Scientology poses as a mental health counseling service, although they released a statement calling out Tom Cruise after his Matt Lauer diatribe against psychiatry. I have written them before but it was prior to Going Clear and all of that. I think that a letter now would probably get more interest as there is more general knowledge out there.

      • Robert Eckert

        “Do you trust the wrong people?” Yeah, if you are always taken in by people you shouldn’t have trusted, man does Scientology want to talk to you!

  • Lurkness

    John Alex Wood’s appearance at the movie premier is still somewhat of a mystery. Apparently, from previous comments, he was invited to the screening by Louis’ Team.

    Perhaps, JAW was a behind the scenes source (especially given that other contributors were invited) and was the one doing the “safe-pointing” with Louis on the supposed “good works” of Scientology. He is a LT groupie (see tweet).

    Me thinks, in the end, JAW is going to be in for more than a few sec checks.

    https://twitter.com/johnalexwood/status/608385320590184449

    • Supper Powers

      This is bizarre.

    • Edward Clarke

      But there were reports he didn’t watch actually go in and watch the film?

      Here’s what he may have done, via looking at his wife/girlfriend/PA’s twitter. He needs a ticket to get into the lobby (where he was amusingly captured on video), and we know he got one, but doesn’t see the film. Seems like a long trip for a look around the lobby. Unless he was there anyway.

      He and the other half are obsessed with Monty Python And The Holy Grail and were tweeting non-stop about its 40th anniversary, which was 14th Oct! And lo, it had a one off showing last night as follows:

      FORTHCOMING EVENTS at The PCC!
      MONTY PYTHON AND THE HOLY GRAIL
      A 40th Anniversary Sing Along Event
      Wednesday 14th October 20:30

      The PCC, The Prince Charles Cinema, is about 100 steps from the Vue! And I think that start time is about 15 – 30 mins after he was filmed. This gave him enough time for the lobby lookaround.

      Just, you know, a theory.

      • B4you

        Maybe he is still in there and can’t get out! Did anyone check on this character 🙂

      • A good theory, sir.

      • Scream Nevermore

        OSA will still know he was there, whatever the reason.

  • Mooser

    Great movie review Mr. Ortega. I saw in comments (thanks “Baby”) yesterday that a review would appear today, and I’m glad I came back to read it.

  • ze moo

    The $cieno backlash to Leah Remini’s book is somewhat undertoned. This ‘ad’ showed up when I checked an article: F5

    http://www.ledgergazette.com/star-tells-the-truth-about-scientology/110582/

    • Joe

      I don’t understand how the concept of the high road doesn’t even exist as a concept to them. If they really wanted to shut their critics up all they would have to say is, “Unfortunately, Ms. Remini is no longer an adherent to our religion. We feel sorry that she feels the way she does, but we only wish her well.” Like do they not understand how much wind that would take out of everyone’s sails? Not only that it would totally undercut the stories in her book by making a huge contrast.

      • B4you

        Saying something nice is not On Policy!

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          That’s so much more succinct!

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        This would literally go against their religion. Attacking enemies, real or perceived, is a sacrament in Scientology.

        “If attacked on some vulnerable point by anyone or anything or any organization, always find or manufacture enough threat against them to cause them to sue for peace. Peace is bought with an exchange of advantage, so make the advantage and then settle. Don’t ever defend. Always attack. Don’t ever do nothing. Unexpected attacks in the rear of the enemy’s front ranks work best.” – L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, “Department of Governmental Affairs”, 15 Aug 1960

        For Scientologists, this is scripture. (Emphasis added.)

        • Joe

          Wow, then this cabal was seriously doomed from its inception.

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            Or so it would seem.

          • Missionary Kid

            It is doomed, but because the information about its misdeeds and internal machinations have been hidden behind a shield of lies and attacks in an effort to divert attention away from its evil for so many years, $cientology has been able to hide its real actions.

            The internet, Going Clear, and now My $cientology Movie, as well as the increasing number of ex-$cientologists who are willing to speak out against the cult, among them celebrities, former executives, and many victims, the exposure will, I believe, leave a small amount of the rabidly faithful.

            Yes, it is doomed because the seeds of its own destruction are a part of its DNA.

            • Kestrel

              I would add “The Unbreakable Miss Lovely” to that list.

            • Missionary Kid

              I’ll do it. Excellent.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              And add the close italics after “Going Clear!”

    • Saint

      Our help is yours.
      For a price.
      Oh, and there are air quotes around help.

      • Mark Foster

        …said Bubba to the Wee Wanker Pope…

  • B4you

    People!! Chris Shelton has made a public announcement! 🙂

    https://youtu.be/f6dGF12QyOo?t=4

    • Newiga

      Chris Shelton is awesome! (exclamation mark)

    • 3feetback-of-COS

      Re-stating the obvious can actually be a good thing, because we often overlook or forget the obvious, which can put us at a disadvantage or harm us.

    • Supper Powers

      Oh, what the fact is he talking about?!

  • Miss Tia

    https://twitter.com/misstia/status/654737246944276480

    this could be scary…..my cross stitch floss has always just been kept in joann fabric bags in my huge honkin’ craft bin—which is a pain in the ass when i go to start a project and have to find floss colors—but i decided to finally organize my floss….i have had the containers and bobbins for a few YEARS, just never felt like sitting here and winding a few hundred colors of floss before…..but organized cross stitch floss?! imagine what i could do!! my fabric is already pretty ‘organized’ as it’s just kept in the dmc boxes i’ve ordered it from! 🙂 so i am sitting here with a container and figure if i do 50-75 a day i could be done in a week or so……then i’ll be able to easily find colors as they’ll be in numerical order and not just tossed in bags willy nilly……if i’m organizing anything i must be sick!!

    • Juicer77

      I have mine organized by number in on spools in clear plastic labeled containers. I think I need counseling LOL
      Great photo – the birds must be loving those tasty seeds as the weather turns cooler!

      • Miss Tia

        well i the containers come with these flat little bobbins that i’m wrapping the floss around…..so mine will finally be organized numerically in clear containers! 🙂 i almost find that frightening!!! it’ll be VERY foreign to start a project and be able to just immediately find the floss i need!!

        oh the birds are indeed loving the seeds!! sunflower, zinnia, hawthorne, dogwood, some kind of weed that the hood kids can ‘paint berries’ cuz they stain everything purple but the birds love ’em! 🙂 not to mention i still fill the bird feeders!

  • Observer

    Here. Have some leaves.

    refresh

    • TexasBroad

      Thank you. We don’t have that here. It pretty much goes from green to dead in an afternoon sometime in October or November. Having come from the midwest, I get nostalgic this time of year.

      • Observer

        My pleasure! Fall is my favorite season. I’ve taken almost all the pics I’ve posted so far around our property. This tree is in front of our house.

    • Kay

      Pwetty

    • Juicer77

      Ahhhh…. so soothing. Where’s my sweater so I can snuggle up?

  • adangerousbeauty

    While we wait for a response (and by “response” I really mean “psychotic ad hominem ranty diatribe”) from the Scinos to this film, I have to ask our exes or others more informed than I, since I’ve been wondering for a while now – is “Karin Pouw” just a name Lil’ Slappy uses as a pseudonym for his ravings (and whose pic on the Scn website was just of some random lady) since he won’t do any sort of press under his real name/persona, or is she a real person who was the chief spokesperson at one time but may have gotten Shelly’d for one reason or another, but they’re still using her name for official press … or something else entirely?

    • Miss Tia

      real person….hasn’t been seen in ??? years now…2-3 years…..someone else can better answer that….but she is real….does she actually issue what her name is signed too? doubtful at this point……

      • sugarplumfairy

        You can see her in some of the old YouTube videos from the Paris org..

    • BosonStark

      Senior Commander Pouw is real. She is so real that she has proof she was Julius Caesar in a past life. This is Scientology. She can’t get any more real…
      http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b582/Kkkkzzzz/Pouw1_zpspnqdqivt.jpeg

    • flyonthewall

      Tony met her in real life at CC once and spoke w/her. Unless it was some kind scientology animatronic….

      • Robert Eckert

        Tony fleshed out the story: actually his superiors (a publisher and an editor) were invited, presumably so Karin could dead-agent Tony to them and try and get him fired (this was many years ago but he had already written a story they seriously didn’t like) but one couldn’t make it and asked if Tony wanted to go. Karin barely concealed her displeasure at seeing him. He worried whether they might poison his food but the fish (“Chilean sea bass” formerly known as “Patagonian toothfish” before the marketers changed the name) was tasty. Karin flew off the handle when Tony responded to a line from her about how you can practice any other religion and be a Scientologist by bringing up “Didn’t Hubbard say Christianity and all those other religions were fake mind implants from the R6 station on Mars?” Karin responded something like “SO WHAT if Hubbard said Jesus was all a fake!” or something similarly impolitic, while Tony scribbled furiously on his notepad.

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          She said, ““So we think Jesus is a figment of the imagination! So what!”

        • flyonthewall

          That’s it, thnx I couldn’t recall the details.

          So what indeed Karin. Amazing

      • Robert Eckert
        • flyonthewall

          seriously? gross

    • Louis Theroux is a religious bigot. Marty is a self-seeking bitter defrocked apostate. We are the fastest growing religion in the world and our social betterment campaigns have introduced the wonders of L Ron Hubbard’s technology to millions of happy humanoids. True.

      • ze moo

        What is the difference between a postulate and a delusion? No difference.

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        Pete, Pete! Calm down! ADB just wanted information about the beloved Karin Pouw, voice of truth and reason in a world dominated by merchants of chaos. While your zeal is genuine, it is misplaced. Save it for Sunday morning…!

        • sugarplumfairy

          Oh, you’re waiting for Karin Pouw? Hold on, I’ll go untie her..

          • daisy

            LOL

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            Made me laugh.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      What we do for our fellow Bunkerites.

      Attached is a screen grab from the CoS official website, so you don’t have to go there. She is as real as real can be– at least by Scientology terms. Here she is:

      • adangerousbeauty

        Thanks, DDD – I have been to the website and saw that (and if I remember correctly, she wasn’t on there for a while after Tommy “You Don’t Have the F.ing Rank” Davis took over) and wondered if that was a picture of some random lady just so they had a pic of “KP” for the website, even if she wasn’t actually real.

        Then again, what’s true for you is true for you, right, so I suppose if she’s “real” for them …

        • Scream Nevermore

          Oh, she’s real, but i don’t think anyone here believes that the press releases and letters that appear above her signature are written by anyone but Wee Slap-Happy.

          • Missionary Kid

            I’ve added Wee Slap-Happy to the list of DM nicknames. good one.

            • Scream Nevermore

              Oops, sorry, I spoiled it by editing it!

          • adangerousbeauty

            So he’s Happy when he Slappy his Wee … oh wait

            (Yeah, I don’t buy that she’s the one writing them either. That’s why I had to ask … but now that I know she’s real, where is she?)

        • Ben Franklin

          For some reason, the other spokesperson, Robert Adams, just reminds me of Donald Rumsfeld. I don’t recall ever seeing any PR statement released by Robert Adams.

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          I always figured that she is real but has been locked up for years, so little Captain David Miscavige actually writes her eloquent missives.

      • Ben Franklin

        Rumor has it that Karin Pouw is a true Clear. She is rarely seen by the human eye, especially, WOG eyes.

      • Miss Tia

        wow, we never hear from the others do we?

  • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

    Want to buy an original, first edition Aleister Crowley from Neil Pearson for £9500?

    “White Stains”: Perhaps a unique proof copy of the rarest and certainly the most outspokenly erotic of all 1890s decadent verse.

    http://www.neilpearsonrarebooks.com/erotica/white-stains-detail

    • B4you

      [ADD TO CART]

      • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

        Heehee!

        “White Stains” *childish giggle*

        • B4you

          A Neuropath of the second Empire! *how deep is that*

        • Panopea Abrupta
          • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

            White JAM!!! Snickersnort 😀

            • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

              Alright, you crazy kids. No booglarizing in public. ; )

        • Robert Eckert

          heh heh, heh heh

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          Pearl Jam.

          Hee hee hee.

    • Nat-leficent

      No. Thanks tho XD

  • Pierrot

    *** RED X +–+ Reminder +–+ RED X *** Thursday, 15 October 2015.

    Good day Bunkerettes and Bunkeroos,

    Sunday 11th: New York leads SFBay.
    Monday 12th: SFBay scraped in and saved the day.
    Tuesday 13th: NO SCORE
    Wednesday 14th: NO SCORE

    RedX tips & Complaints procedure are included in the google doc under the RedXTips tab.
    Flag the lies, whack a few bait & switch ads : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-Kvg78kCcvo5gL7UfPcmhmbsagTNtdj0y2LAiHVFrCU/pubhtml

    F5… Mysterious Cult by Gyaban enhanced by DodoTheLaser for RedX, flickred by Aeger Primo
    : https://www.flickr.com/photos/120371503@N05/16030744658/in/set-72157642802079293

  • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

    I’ve been asleep so I’m miles behind on today’s comments, so apologies if this has been mentioned.

    Fairly early on in “My Scientology Movie” Louis says in a voice-over: “there may be as many as 25,000 Scientologists in America”, and I think that’s when I knew it wasn’t going to be placatory, which I’d been fearing since reading his Guardian essay.

    • FromPolandWithLove

      This is my first encounter with word placatory, You ‘ve used it in meaning placatory = intended to pacify by acceding to demands or granting concessions;?

      • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

        Yes, Poland; like “conciliatory”. I was worried he was going to let Scientology off the hook, but he didn’t 🙂

        • FromPolandWithLove

          I have different BBC channels on my cable TV , so I hope, that soon I will watch this documentary. :):):)

          • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

            I so hope you are able to watch it! All I’m going to say is: girl in bikini. Was she a plant for comedy effect, or are there really people that self-absorbed?

            • Adele Dazeem

              I laughed hard at that scene – so awkward and a tad surreal!

  • Miss Tia

    OT—land of misfit toys dramz—sitting here trying to wind floss and already have one in a knot and i hear someone next door yelling, i didn’t think anything of it, as it was a man yelling rodney’s name…..then the dogs started to bark and i heard pounding on a door (not mine)…..i go look….3 police next door….i go out on the back porch and ask what’s going on and SHE shoplifted—her probation for theft ended in april of this year, she has an extensive criminal history of theft convictions including spending a year in jail after so many felony theft charges…..if she didn’t come out they were going to tow her car–the merchandise is it—the car is worth more than the house (that’s another subject for another day)….they were trying to get rodney to get her to come out or get him to at least open the car or it’d be towed…..as of right now, the police decided to leave the front of the house and one is on luedella—-if rodney or her leave here they HAVE to either pass luedella or go up it since we’re on the dead end….the tow trucks are busy at the moment with rush hour…..if i hear a tow truck i’ll go watch and take some pix….if one of them comes out, i’ll video 🙂

    • Scream Nevermore

      There’s never a dull moment in your street!

      • Kestrel

        These things never happen to me when I’m winding floss.

        • Miss Tia

          You don’t live in the land of misfit toys! 🙂 As the mail man said one day, “this is the strangest neighborhood in Akron.” Yep, it really is. Very nice quiet area usually and most people are great but damn do we get some bizarre situations back here!!

          • Kestrel

            Oh, I have my share of bizarre neighbors. I just have never had an opportunity to wind floss.

            • Miss Tia

              i might abandon this, as i once again got another knot…..i thought, again, i was starting from the right end…..nope…..GAH!!!!!

      • Miss Tia

        no there’s not!!! we thought the drunk guy on the rock would be our year end ‘fun fest’….HAH!!

    • Kestrel

      I’m thinking, if your neighbor should knock on your door and ask you to hold onto a package for him, the answer should be, “No.”

      • Miss Tia

        Affirmative!! That sort of already happened!! The UPS lady in the spring had a package for them that required a signature and she asked if I would sign for it and I said “no way, not for them I know their criminal histories!” Any other neighbor I’d do it for—and I have–but not them. Nope nope nope!!

        • B4you

          Ha ha! You live i a war-zone. Just go next door and start some Sherman speak. Maybe from a ghetto-blaster! Out the window! Ill bet they would love to hear the “Strait up and Vertical” event. Else i have a Cat that get rid of people?

          • Miss Tia

            i have been known to blast things out the back window–not facing their house, those would be my side windows—but i usually blast van halen, ricky gervais making a bird noise—–the neighbors know that as my warning signal, when they hear that they know i’m ready to blow and they get popcorn ready, etc…..

            this one can play out ‘naturally’…..the car will get towed and she’ll get arrested…..following their pattern that i’ve gleaned from public records, he’ll probably end up beating her up sometime soon so i will be on high alert for any yells from her and call 911 STAT and have already put a camera in the bathroom (that window is next to our shared driveway) and will take the tablet to bed with the camera on so it’s ready to ‘record’ if need be…..the house next to me will be vacant within 18 months tops…..(i hope)…..

            • B4you

              Van Halen “Eruption” does the trick 🙂

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_lwocmL9dQ

            • Miss Tia

              running with the devil is good, how it starts, that bass? oh hell yeah….mean streets is good too……i know one day i was pissed at an asshole neighbor and everyone listened to ALL the van halen—van halen, not van hagar…..no one minded EXCEPT asshole neighbor, which worked out perfect! 🙂

            • B4you

              You are so bad 🙂

            • Kay

              Blast “We Stand Tall” out of your windows towards that house…..that’ll learn ’em. 🙂

            • Miss Tia

              Ricky Gervais making a bird noise on loop for 15 minutes or Yoko Ono screaming is far far worse! 😉

            • Robert Eckert

              Have you tried “Thank You For Listening”?

            • Miss Tia

              i have to admit i don’t know that….

            • Andrew Robertson

              So you’re one of those poor benighted souls who have not experienced the exquisite delight of Ron’s musical genius?

              Well, help is at hand. Here is the original ecclesiastical version for your listening pleasure and spiritual enlightenment!

              Andrew

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZd7MzF1RlA

            • skiesareblue

              Not again!!!! Aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!

            • Miss Tia

              should i partake of this before bed? i don’t want nightmares!!!

            • Robert Eckert

              The beluga whale being raped by the Eighties:

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZd7MzF1RlA

    • B4you

      That link is going to the front page

    • Vaquera

      ….

      • Jimmy3

        “Scientology turncoat Leah Remini…”

        Really? Maybe it’s just me, but as I’ve followed the story, it seems they betrayed her.

        • jazzlover

          She’s the Paul Revere of Scientology! 🙂

          • Jimmy3

            Is that a Palin joke? I can dig it

            • jazzlover

              LOL. As if 😉

      • thanks

      • B4you

        That is the face she had on, when she accidental walked in on DM! That day 🙂

    • Richard Grant

      LEAH REMINI’S ‘PRISON CAMP’ NIGHTMARE!

      Published on: October 15, 2015

      Photography by: FameFlynet

      Scientology turncoat Leah Remini was forced to undergo brutal “behavior modification” inside a church lockdown after questioning its leader!

      The punishment was carried out after “The King of Queens” star “dared to ask” David Miscavige “where his wife, Shelly, was” when he showed up alone at Tom Cruise’s 2006 wedding to Katie Holmes — where David served as best man.

      That’s the claim Leah, 45, who has since left the church, will reveal in a soon-to-be published book, an insider exclusively told The National ENQUIRER.

      The tell-all, expected to savage the shadowy religion, is titled “Troublemaker: Surviving Hollywood and Scientology.”

      While the church has denied Leah’s allegations, a publisher’s memo, obtained by The ENQUIRER, described the “behavior modification” as “brutal treatment” at Scientology’s Flag Land Base in Clearwater, Fla., and said Leah was billed $300,000 by the church.

      Scientology defector Amy Scobee said a possible punishment is to “run around a pole” for a half-hour or more.

      Other punishments include “sleep deprivation and isolation,” she added.

      And former Scientologist Jon Atack said: “It’s like a prison camp, where they break you down mentally!”

      Another defector, Margery Wakefield, once a top church leader, said: “Food could also have been kept from her for periods of time.”

    • Robert Eckert

      In your Hotmail inbox

  • Meepthorp

    LT’s own words from his article in the Guardian: “Indeed, there is a community of ex-Scientology and anti-Scientology activists, writers and bloggers for whom the supposed basic evil of official Scientology is such an article of faith that they have ended up taking on a worldview that, in its own way, is just as Manichean as the one they oppose.” http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/14/louis-theroux-my-scientology-movie-i-felt-like-id-been-blooded

    In his defense, LT has been confounded and confused by his attempt to “understand” something as insane as a bonafide cultic experience. The fact he refers to a proud feeling of being “blooded” shows me that he’s got an inkling that he is dipping into a well from which he will never actually drink or know the true taste of. It’s like trying to understand a soldier’s experience when you’ve never been to war. He’s quite lucky that the worst blood the Scientologists will ever draw from him is nothing more than a mere, comical nuisance. I hope he remains engaged in the subject, and continues to explore. It’s a much bigger subject than most people including Theroux will ever be able to really know.

  • nottrue

    Louis if you didn’t get your own spread in FreedomMag you know you did somethng wrong

    • flyonthewall

      Maybe they like him bc he was critical of Marty and said they did good work in prisons and at disaster sites?

      • Acherontia

        “…meh. We’ll take what we can get.”
        *only prints half page ad in FM*

        • flyonthewall

          Chris Shelton never really got fair gamed either though and he’s strongly anti-cult. It’s weird, idk

  • Kay

    I don’t know if anyone has copied this link to the Daily Beast. It is about Louis Theroux’s movie and talks about ex-scientologists who are calling David Miscavage a terrorist.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/14/ex-scientologists-david-miscavige-is-a-terrorist.html

    • Kay

      P.S. The attached video that Marty Rathbun shot of scientology hecklers bugging him in LAX is pretty creepy. They look like triplet children of Satan. (I’m joking, but not really…they look bug eyed and deranged)

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        That video is a gift that keeps on giving.

      • Robert Eckert

        757,304 views as of today

        • Kay

          wow

  • outraged

    DAvid Miscarriage CLEARLY exhibits the behavior of a PSYCHOPATH, after getting an A+ as a rabid sociopath.

    Research has shown psychopaths have underdeveloped components of the brain commonly thought to be responsible for emotion regulation and impulse control.

    Psychopaths, in general, have a hard time forming real emotional attachments with others. Instead, they form artificial, shallow relationships designed to be manipulated in a way that most benefits the psychopath. People are seen as pawns to be used to forward the psychopath’s goals. Psychopaths rarely feel guilt regarding any of their behaviors, no matter how much they hurt others.

    One of many links I can find on the difference which I believe is very important.
    The US Government is responsible for letting this extremely dangerous man run his violent organization. Not only is the FBI doing shit, they IRS gives Scientology a tax break.

    It’s about time, it’s a place, Obama needs to take a stand. He is on his way out anyway,

    got to go take my girl to cheerleading meeting. UGH!!!!!!!!

    • Doc. M

      It is believed that the governmental enforcement agencies are biding their time while the church slowly implodes. I believe the last thing they want is to be tied up in court for years with hundreds of law suits. Just my opinion, but the legal system in the U.S. takes time. It took over 10 years for the Exxon situation to resolve (poorly). When the word “religion” is attached, it just makes it that much harder. I believe it’s only a matter of time. Unfortunately, many will be injured or badly damaged during that time.

      • Kay

        Yes the US legal system is often agonizingly slow. I think the courtroom of opinion will take Scio down much faster…we are already seeing that.

        • Doc. M

          Are we? With all do respect how? Sure, those in the bunker know, but that’s a small microcosm of society. It took Cosby’s admission about drugging women to have sex with him before things really started to happen.
          What dramatic thing has the church done to get the public’s attention? “Going Clear” was but a small piece. Perhaps Leah’s book will make a larger impact, but that will certainly depend on how it’s marketed and the P.R. campaign by the publisher.

          Honestly, I only see very little happening, though I respect the Andrea’s, Tony’s, Juicer77’s etc for not keeping quiet.

          • Kay

            Well I look at it this way: When I first started being aware and concerned about Scientology, about 8 years ago, none of my friends knew anything about it, or even cared to know anything about it although I would bring it up. Now they ALL know about it from Going Clear, information from the internet, particularly a lot of information that has only come out the past two years. They are appalled/concerned. I think that information dissemination is vital in affecting Scientology’s outcomes. (For instance there is that town in Australia who refused to have Narconon there, because they knew it was a fraud. I don’t think they would have known that five years ago because that information was not on the internet) I think they have a ton of money, which is to their advantage, but I also think bad PR is hard to overcome. Certainly negative PR and information about how damaging it is is limiting the number of US citizens willing to investigate Scientology or stay in Scientology, hence the continuing reports of almost empty orgs. However, the foreign countries worry me. (Mexico, South America, Taiwan) Unfortunately, they are showing some street smarts going after non-USA places.

      • Kestrel

        The governmental enforcement agencies are dealing with a wealthy corporation that is secretive, deceptive, and litigious. It is designed with rabbit trails and dead ends to make investigation difficult. It does not, to my knowledge, have access to documented inside information or the insider(s) which would enable them to act.

    • Doc. M

      Another note, look how long it took the governmental agencies to start the processes against Bill Cosby, sure less time but he is thousands of times better known than DM. But in his case…to paraphrase Churchill, it’s not the beginning of the end, but the end of the beginning. Same with Scientology, but they have much more money and are much less known. (even with the internet, the films etc.

      • ze moo

        Bill Cosby is being sued in civil court. There may an investigation into something that happened in 2007, but there may not be criminal complaint in the works.

        • Doc. M

          True, but before the shit really hit a couple of months ago, criminal court was not an option. Also, it doesn’t matter as with the underage girl and the playboy thing, she is still within the statute, and there now might very well be a criminal case…however

          1 Cosby is finished as a performer
          2 The legal fees are probably going to hurt him severely
          3 More women will come forward
          4 His family is destroyed
          5 his legacy is destroyed
          6 All who worked with him the 50 or 100 people who made the Cosby Show work are affected.

          He is obviously a serial rapist, which is an illness and in a perfect world, he would be locked away in a hospital for the rest of his life. However, with his fame and now public outcry and if there is a criminal trial or even a civil case, it can very well go on for years.

          The point was that he is much more well known that DM and has perhaps 1/10 the money or less than DM. Scientology can hold out longer and cn tie the governmental courts in knots for years if not decades.

          We Shall see how it plays out.

  • SP Wogsy

    This is what happens when you don’t do your research. You spread misinformation. I feel like we just got set back 5 years. Flunk.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      I am not certain I understand what you are saying.

      • Kay

        Hey Wogsy…I agree with Douglas in that I don’t understand what you are saying…but I would really like to know. What did you mean?

        • Miss Tia

          Add me to the clueless crew!

          • B4you

            What did she say?

            • Miss Tia

              Sp Wogsy’s post that started this thread. I see it, it’s still there isn’t it? I don’t understand if she was replying to someone and it started a new thread or what……

            • SP Wogsy

              I replied to Kay above , I was just referring to the positive comments about Scientology that were made by Louis

            • Miss Tia

              ah, thanks!

        • SP Wogsy

          I was just referring to Louis’s positive comments on Scientology.

  • Mockingbird

    I have to see the movie to form a final opinion . That being said I know there are issues within the ex community . Some exes will never trust Marty or Mike. I don’t know them well enough to assess that.

    But something that bears close examination is Marty’s statements about Scientology technology . As I have never seen him entirely condemn it or admit it is not scientifically validated . Look closely at his statements and his long history of using Hubbard’s methods. Look at the Anderson Report and a laundry list of analysis of cult methods by Margaret Singer, Robert Jay Lifton, Danielle Shaw, Janja Lalich and many others.

    Marty in my opinion has an unsopported position regarding auditing, even to this day. I most recently saw him do an interview for Vice in which he claimed Hubbard found something beneficial but the outside system is bad. That is not supported by academic or scientific examination . The opposite is true.

    My issue is not Marty as one of thousands of witnesses to Scientology’s abuses. It is his unsubstantiated opinions that are taken as authoritative that trouble me. He is not scientific or a critical thinker. But he is treated like the expert on Scientology.

    There is another elephant that never leaves the room for Marty and Mike. They have admitted crimes after the statute of limitations. If they know of or in any way aided murders for the cult there is no escaping that. Including the hundreds of murders via medical fraud both Hubbard and Miscavige committed .

    Hubbard knew full well that exorcising seventy five million year old aliens didn’t cure anything, but had Scientologists die from untreated cancer and other diseases to hide his con and commit fraud. Miscavige continued the tradition. If they knew they can never tell.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Not a popular position.

      And to any “special” lurkers out there, note the response. And then get back to us about what a “hive mind” we are in here.

      • Mockingbird

        Which position are you talking about ? With all the posts I want to be sure. So much has been said.

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          This was a response to the OP. Not a popular stance, but one that is well reasoned and well presented. Those who try to pretend that everyone here in the Bunker thinks alike, and barring that are shunned, should read the responses here. Agree or disagree, we have figured out how to do this with neither kool-ade nor disconnection.

          • Mockingbird

            OH, I had no idea which statement you meant.

      • Mockingbird

        Bzzzzzzzz…

    • I’m not sure how people taking his unsubstantiated opinions as fact is Mary’s fault?? I’m pretty sure that’s the fault of the people who are misinterpreting or accepting said opinions.

      The way in which you challenge Marty’s credibility is no different than the ways in which my very own credibility could be challenged. I was once a believer too, and my path out of the cult was 8 long years before I finally left. Had I publicized my thoughts and actions during that time, i would endure as much criticism from short-sighted folks as Mary does.

      • Mockingbird

        It isn’t short sighted to criticize reporters and writers for failing to investigate Scientology thoroughly . Just having an ex Scientologist say the technology is beneficial but the organization is flawed is letting slip the statement that a mental alteration method is helpful go by uncontested. A responsible person would at least look into that. But some see Marty’s statement as a middle ground. The problem is calling any therapy beneficial is a huge defining statement. It merits critical analysis which many do not provide.

      • Mockingbird

        The real issue isn’t that Marty has clung to bits of Scientology. It is that people including some who should know far better, like professional journalists, forward his ideas and others who left the cult can go from having Hubbard do their thinking to Miscavige then Marty when they should think their own thoughts. We have no Messiah in our ranks, sorry to tell you.

        • Kay

          Does Marty still do auditing? I can’t remember. I know he was at one point but I seem to remember that he stopped doing any. Just curious.

          • Mockingbird

            I don’t know.

            • Kay

              I will do some research. I think he was doing “independent” auditing, then decided that wasn’t a valid practice and then gave it up.

            • Mockingbird

              Good idea.

            • Libertylover

              He says on David Pakman he doesn’t believe in Scientology anymore and has given it all up. Its at the 14 min 30 second spot in the video.

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yktu0btmEmA

            • Kay

              Thank you very much Liberty

            • Mockingbird

              Worth looking at. How recent is this ?

            • Libertylover

              less than a year ago. November 2014. It’s only 2 minutes at the end if you want to see what he says now. He says doesn’t believe anymore.

            • Mockingbird

              Hmm, at this point a documentary on his evolving stance would he worthwhile.

            • Mike Leopold

              That is my understanding as well.

        • I don’t need your disingenuous apologies. I have never and will never look to a messiah. The short-sightedness I am talking about is that your entire commentary on this issue centers around blaming Marty for the actions and espousing of others.

          That’s just plain silly. It would be simpler and more to-the-point to simply admit that you don’t like Marty because he won’t outright denounce Scientology in its entirety. However that’s not entirely true either.

          His journey has been a complex one of trying to marry the completely delusional and, well frankly, just-plain-wrong view of the world to what the world actually is. Such a journey is not easy. I can speak from experience. Sometimes, to this day, I see things that make me worry that Scientology has been right all along. But then I remember that one right prediction does not a prophet make.

          • Mockingbird

            That wasn’t meant as an apology. I don’t have an issue with not liking Marty. By saying that you are addressing me and not my claims. You are using the genetic fallacy. I don’t worry about him denouncing Scientology. I am troubled by journalists letting his statements about Scientology come through them with tacit approval. And exes taking him as an authority.

            • You’re not offering us untainted facts. Your criticisms interspersed through your non-specific, generic accusations and claims makes you and your claims inseparable from one another.

            • Mockingbird

              I don’t see how you can’t examine a claim on its own merits. If I said it’s raining you could look outside. The genetic fallacy in my opinion stands. I made specific claims regarding his Vice interview and this movie, even Going Clear. His claims regarding auditing are often uncontested. You can look for yourself.

            • Mockingbird

              And untainted facts ? Look at the very specific information to form your own opinion.

            • Mockingbird

              I am not trying to pick on you or single you out. I have noted several logical fallacies Hubbard used extensively in his doctrine which resulted in Scientologists adopting them as routine behavior. A partial list includes: personal incredulity , black and white thinking , magical thinking , the Texas sharpshooter fallacy ( aka apophenia ) , ad hominem , no true Scotsman ( Scientologist ) , appeal to authority ( their own or Hubbard ) , begging the question , genetic , burden of proof , ambiguity , bandwagon , anecdotal and of course tu quoque . It takes a lot of work to learn to recognize them in oneself and to reduce them. Entirely eliminating them is likely impossible.

              This list is from Pissed !!! It’s not your fault !
              http://mbnest.blogspot.com/2015/01/pissed-its-not-your-fault.html

          • Kay

            Being someone who works with cult survivors from a different cult, I am of the opinion that it truly takes years in most cases for most survivors to adequately sort through what is reality vs. what were the erroneous “truths” they were indoctrinated in, particularly when it is tied up with their eternal salvation. It is a complex and lengthy process, and it takes many people years to overcome real fears about whether what they left was actually correct. I understand what you are saying Derek.

          • Edward Clarke

            On that last point, I may have picked you up incorrectly, but if the things you see (that make you worry) match predictions that the world is going straight to hell on a souped up motorbike, this is the basic con in all religious indoctrination. I had the JWs at the door claiming that stuff just last month, and if I looked around, apparently, I surely couldn’t argue. I asked them to name the year, going back as far as they liked, when this *wasnt* true.

            Oldest trick in the book. It’s the expanded version of the personality test. You’ve got issues? Course you got issues. Everybody whose ever lived has got issues. The things they claim to tell you about yourself are universal. The things they claim to know about the world today, or tomorrow, are eternal.

            • Yeah, that was pretty much my point actually.

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        Are you typing on a device, Derek? I assume “Mary” is “Marty” in the above statement.

        • Jeez everyone is on my typos today. Normally you guys let them slide. I gotta be more careful.

          • Kay

            Duzn’t botther me if you type wrongg. 🙂

          • ReallyMGM

            I understand Derek. I type on a iPad keyboard too fast sometimes and does that. No spelling police here!

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Ahem.

              I am not the Spelling Police. I am, however…

            • ReallyMGM

              I am guilty of many felonies! Arrest me now!

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            If you were writing about COB I would understand if you wrote “Mary”…!

    • One Human

      I think Marty has a can addiction.

    • pixie dust

      Mbird – I think the Vice interview was before Going Clear. And in Going Clear, Marty said he regrets his involvement and in one of the most dramatic lines in the film (after a clip of Tom Turtleneck video) says, “That’s where it takes you”. I took that as a complete denouncement of Scientology.
      As a never-in I don’t feel qualified to judge those that were in. And although I feel a lot of compassion for both Marty and Mike, I can’t judge other exes feelings about them either. The best I can do is try to imagine what it is like getting caught up in a mind control group and then trying to recover from it.

      • Mockingbird

        It is hard to decipher as he has been reported to say he repaired Scientology , but if he used Scientology auditing he was using Scientology. A tough position to make clear.

    • Mike Leopold

      For all their flaws and shortcomings, Marty and Mike have done incalculable damage to the cult, and have evolved significantly since exiting.
      I’m curious, what have you done?

      • Mockingbird

        You are using the genetic fallacy. My claim’s merit is not affected by me.

        • Mike Leopold

          Your no answer is noted.

          • Robert Eckert

            You’re not entitled to know his personal history unless he chooses to share it.

            • Mike Leopold

              I am entitled to ask.

          • Mockingbird

            You just doubled down.

          • Miss Tia

            is it being noted on his permanent record? NOT THE PERMANENT RECORD!!!

            • Mike Leopold

              LOL! I’m very familiar with Mockingbird from ESMB.
              My genetic fallacy has also been noted!

            • Miss Tia

              I was trying to bring levity to a situation that seemed to be getting tense! 🙂

            • Mike Leopold

              🙂

      • SP Wogsy

        Wow!!! Who knew there is a “how much have you done since you exited Scientology” contest???? Do we get extra points for being abused too?????? Sign me up!! NOT!!!

        • Mike Leopold

          No contest, but Mike and Marty have done incalculable damage to an evil cult.
          Many people have learned about Scientology’s insane and sometimes criminal behavior as a result of their disclosures.
          I’m grateful for all they’ve done, even as I hope they’ll do more.
          Sorry, you get no points.

          • SP Wogsy

            Tell that to the people who have suffered psychological damage and emotional trauma. But lets just invalidate them, because they choose to not speak out for personal reasons. ~snark

            As for what has Mockingbird done? Well, if you read the comments, he actually has a blog and has his entire story open to anybody who is interested in reading it at Ex Scientology message board, but I guess it still doesn’t matter, because the only way to gain recognition for “doing something” after leaving scientology, you have to land a television interview and write a book. Don’t worry , keep your points. I don’t want them or need them.

            • Kay

              I think I understand what you are saying and can empathize with feelings you express around this issue. (as well as I can as a never-in) I didn’t up vote because you didn’t want any, but here is one anyway from me anyway ^

    • jane456

      I am anxious to hear your opinion of the film. I did a lot of what you are doing when I started processing my cult experience, many years ago. I read everything I could get my hands on and called all kinds of people. I spoke to Robert Hare…..woo, fucking, hoo! Very nice man. I did a lot of investigating of the founders of this little shit cult and their background. Who they really were, not who they said they were.

      To this day, in spite of knowing all of the evil shit the cult leaders in my group did, there are ex-members who will say there was something valid there. I don’t go there anymore with them, it’s just not worth my time. They have all the information and they can think what they want. I just do my best to keep the information available to unknowing people who might wander in the doors.

      You know there are a lot of people who think cults are a curiosity. Somebody recently described themselves in a posting as a “tragedy tourist” . I’m not sure what to think about that.

      • Mockingbird

        Thanks. I am kind of past examining everything for several reasons. One there is just too much Scientology information to take it all in. And second and more importantly, like many cult members I had emotional flatness regarding non cult issues for years, that has passed.

        People in that flatness can seem numb and dead. In the cult your mind is intensely focused on the cult and thinking in cult doctrine. In leaving there can be a huge adjustment. I had to learn to read like a normal person and form my own opinions.

  • Scientology is literally the antithesis of every other religion.

    Drug free, except for when they need to sedate someone to transport them to a remote corner of the world to re-indoctrinate them.

    Free thinking, within the confines of the laws and rules of Scientology.

    Free speech, as long as none of it denounces Scientology or its purported ideologies.

    Human rights, except if you’re deemed an enemy.

    Salvation, except if you’re too poor to afford services.

    Quote:

    “A civilization without insanity, without criminals and without war, where the able can prosper and honest beings can have rights, and where Man is free to rise to greater heights, are the aims of Scientology.”

    Yet they continually declare war on everyone who opposes their methods. They routinely violate the rights of individuals: their privacy, their freedom to speak, their freedom to choose with whom the associate, their freedom to explore other paths of spiritual salvation. They routinely deny advances in the sciences of mind, thereby holding man back from rising any higher than we are. They take every penny that someone has, everything they own, and years off their lives, reducing prosperity. They are dishonest about their practices and beliefs to the public and to their own members.

    So no. Scientologists are not committed to those aims. They are committed to a single man named David Miscavige. Which is perhaps the scariest type of zealously that exists on the planet today.

    • Ben Franklin

      Scientology is a text book example of using the good to mask the bad.

      • ze moo

        What good?

        • Ben Franklin

          By good I mean using terms like Freedom to mask the fact that there is no freedom within Scientology, everything is controlled. It is like a house that looks very shiny and normal from outside, but when you go inside you realize that it is a torture chamber.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      And though they claim to revere no deity, they confidently hold up the word of LRH as The Source, and await his imminent return.

      • Hubbard worship is one of the few non-faked things that could actually qualify as religious, and yet they vehemently deny it. Typical!

    • flyonthewall

      when you said “zealously” I think you meant zealotry

      • Jimmy3

        I think he meant “zealousy”, which is when one is envious of another’s religious extremism.

        • romanesco

          Man, would I be in some serious shit around here if I said something like that.

          • Jimmy3

            Yes. You are constantly scolded unfairly. You are constantly discriminated against. That must suck for you.

            • romanesco

              See what I mean?

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              You are so mean! That’s why everyone here hates you.

          • flyonthewall

            You were just itching to say it weren’t you? Ha!

        • I’m jealous of the extremism of those sexually liberal cults.

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            (Psssst. It’s not worth it in the long run!)

            • Oh I know. I’m just being facetious.

        • flyonthewall

          is that like the same thing as zealingness?

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            “Zealingness” sounds so… Hubbardarian.

            • flyonthewall

              i mocked it up

          • Kay

            I like it….I’m going to use that word 🙂

      • Gracias. Fixed it.

    • Juicer77

      Gah. Hypocrites and schemers.
      Derek, I cannot wait for you to see Theroux’s movie give us your impressions. I am still processing. Long discussion with Mr. Juicer over dinner about what the message was – as perceived by him vs. by me. Fascinating!

    • jane456

      I like the “noble cause corruption” model that Alex Gibney talks about. Once you raise your hand and buy into the cause, everything is justifiable. I like that he explores this in all kinds of arenas like the Catholic church and Scientology and financial corruption and on and on.

      It is ironic, if you look around. A lot of people are “rejecting” science because it conflicts with their cause. I wonder, sometimes, if this is increasing. But I don’t see any scientists look into things like this these days.

      I think scientologists do cling to a belief in the cause. They may have internal conflict about things that the little twitch does, but you know they are trained to suppress those conflicts.

      • If only that were true. The most dedicated Scientologists were searching for self-advancement. Far from a noble cause.

        • jane456

          It’s a hook, and you come to believe it’s a noble cause. A catholic can go into a church and pray for purely selfish things. They can also come to believe that the church is a noble cause. Both things can exist at the same time.

          They may start out for selfish reasons. But are they not soon convinced that this cause is “the cause” and that they must protect it at all costs?

    • Mike Leopold

      Well said. It is simply NOT like every other religion.

  • ze moo

    Universal Pictures is being sued by the family of Barry Seal (Mena) for not buying off the right family members.

    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/universal-sued-tom-cruise-film-832462

    • flyonthewall

      Barry Seal? The Black Panther?

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        No. The drug-dealer-turned-government-informer portrayed by Tom Cruise in the upcoming film Mena.

      • villagedianne

        The Panther is Bobby Seale.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Seale

        • flyonthewall

          i was bein’ silly

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            Well, you had me going.

            • flyonthewall

              🙂

  • Kay

    I like the fact that everyone is respectful on this site. There are a lot of differing opinions on the Theroux movie. I like reading differing opinions from different points of view, it helps me learn.

    • Juicer77

      Hear, hear.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Oh yes.

    • skiesareblue

      Beautifully said, Kay.

  • I think it’s important film, even though some parts I didn’t care about. Also, I’ve yet to see it.

    • Kay

      I agree….I think even if everyone doesn’t agree with parts of it, it’s still a good thing that this film was made.

      • I was trying to be humorous about it. There no parts I like or dislike since I didn’t see it, but in overall, based on the reviews we have so far, yes, the fact this film was made is a good thing, imo too.

        • Kay

          LOL….I read your comment too rapidly. (I have a hard time slowing down my reading speed sometimes so I miss things) I am looking forward to seeing it since I only have the opinions of people who have seen it, and reviews of it to go on so far.

  • Juicer77

    Wrap-up thoughts. Just collapse this thread if I become tedious – and blame the Chablis with dinner and the 50ml Calvados after…
    Many many thanks to i-Betty for organizing and working so hard. She was worn out at various points but kept on going despite exhaustion. A charmer and a welcoming presence in any group. I could talk and listen to 9001, Mark, our government friend, Graham & Co, Evo Eikdal, SciMonkeyNuts and Pete for hours… Johnny and Kristen you are both so special and fun to hang out with! Mark, you have a Storyteller’s voice with just a hint of burr – like clotted cream and jam on a freshly made scone. Delicious! Beyond excited to meet Jon Atack (thanked him for Blue Sky and his many helpful articles at the Bunker). Delighted past words to meet Karen de la C – when she heard my Bunker name she pulled me in for a great big hug like an old friend. Only two missing were the dashing OTVIIIisGr8 and the swoony John McGhee, but alas, perhaps another day…
    Still giggling at poor Tony, sitting there like a zombie trying to stay alert while we all downed pints. He did a creditable job but it was obvious that he was not fully in present time due to jet lag (pardon the phrase).

    Over dinner this evening, having left London and been happily reunited with our furry family members, Mr. J and I discussed the movie.
    How much of Marty’s part was real and how much was campy acting, playing up to Mr. Theroux’s own style?
    The movie holds up Marty’s accounts of DM to the viewer as if to say – “do you buy this?”
    Mr. J liked Going Clear better, because as a non-Bunkeroo he doesn’t have all this background in his head. Mr. J felt that the scripted bits by Marty (Hole scene) took away from the validity of Marty’s testimony. As a layperson viewer, how can you believe this outlandish stuff from one source? In GC you had multiple people backing up each other’s accounts, even if indirectly. In this film Mr. J got the impression Marty was not entirely truthful, if not downright deceitful therefore giving believability to the Co$ claims of deception.
    We both wondered why the bits with the TC actor were included. They seemed out of place and distracted from better avenues of thought. On the whole, and after some real consideration, I think Theroux was contrasting two types of despots. On the one hand, DM is shown as ruling a secluded, moneyed group of fanatics and is not to be trusted. On the other, Rathbun is portrayed as a rebel and a possibly unstable control freak who is not to be trusted either. Sorry to ramble so long. Just working this all out in my head. Job accomplished, Mr. Theroux!

    • Thank you, Juicer.

      • Juicer77

        I’m very antsy waiting to find out when you all can see this and do your own reviews!! Can’t wait to hear what you think.

        • Me too! ☺

          • Juicer77

            I KNEW I should have packed the TamponCam (TM) to record the movie. Dadgummit!

            • EmmaDaoust

              I’m picturing you sitting with your feet on the seat in front of you trying to get a good wide angle. Oh. Right. Alright then, I’m off to cook dinner..

            • Juicer77

              Bwahahaha! I’m brazen but not that bad 😉 I had no qualms about whipping out my phone once the movie finished and lights went up for Q&A.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      I suppose the faux TC was there to lend marquee value…

      • Juicer77

        Perhaps, but it was only a couple really short, random scenes that seemed pointless except to cartoonishly point out that DM and TC are bestest buds. Unbelievable at best, ludicrous at worst. Does not explain to the general public that TC worships – is absolutely in thrall to – DM.

      • Juicer77

        On second thought, perhaps it was included because TC is so high profile and his name is inseparable from the Co$. Not including this connection would have seemed cowardly. But it was poorly done, IMHO. Could have been much more pointedly depicted.

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          OR… they spent the time and money to hire the faux TC, none of his stuff really worked all that well, but they wanted to get at least some of their money’s worth…?

          • Juicer77

            Were I a filmmaker (and I’m not) I wouldn’t let budgetary concerns get in the way of artistic integrity. It could have been edited differently. The TC actor’s schtick seemed to be the sunglasses Risky Business smirk and that was the extent of it.

    • MaxSpaceman

      Boffo review, Juicer 🙂

      • Juicer77

        HI MAX!!! Shouting so you can hear me across the Atlantic 😉 Give my love to Chico.

    • Baby

      Great job Juice.. and we all appreciated you sharing your pictures with us.. It did make us seem that we were all there with you guys.. All of you did an outstanding job. Thank you honi..

    • Baby

      I will have to see the film before I can comment on Marty. I believe he is still trying to find his way..He is wrapped in guilt ( as we saw in Going Clear..) and a video where he states that he struggles with ” His Karma.” ( paraphrasing)

      He does have a lot of secrets. He is angry that the ” Chirch” harassed Mosey for years. Starting with him.

      He is struggling. He knows where all the ” Bodies are Buried.”

      ” Out, damned spot! Out, I say!” I’m sure he felt uncomfortable and cornered. I’m sure he has had more than one sleepless night.

      • Juicer77

        Undoubtedly. He’s a human being, after all.

    • Juicer77

      Forgot to mention EllaSnowFury! Fab to meet you 🙂 You are glamorous, sweet and smart. Triple threat! xo

  • Juicer77

    Off to bed, beyond tired. Reposting this pic for those who may have missed it last night. Just because I love it so, and it’s the best pic I took all night. They were wandering off together to find a cab…

    • Miss Tia

      ‘night Juicer!!

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Wait a minute… Barry Manilow and Mia Farrow were at the premiere???

      • Juicer77

        Lol

        • B4you

          Pssst… Is he drunk?

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            Who he?

            • Baby

              Pete..Whom I absolutely adore..and if I still had ovaries I would have his love child.

    • Doc. M

      Very sweet picture!

    • B4you

      You see the beam of light at the right of the picture? That’s just 1 1/2 seconds before you see Mr. Bean!

      Trust Me!

      • Juicer77

        XD
        Ecce homo, qui est fava!

    • aquaclara

      Beeeeutiful.

  • Nat-leficent

    Ever leave the paper on your sliced cheese when you make a sandwich? Oh wait . . . wrong comment board.

  • nottrue
    • adangerousbeauty

      Only the CoS would turn what should have been a simple dispute over (most likely facially neutral) parking and zoning regulations into a full-blown First Amendment case based on a perceived attack on freedom of religion. Smh. And for what? It’s going to end up as empty as the rest of the Idle Morgues, after the 20 or so people show up for the grand opening.

    • Juicer77

      (f5) $cientology is like:

  • Nat-leficent

    Can’t wait to see this Louis Theroux movie for myself!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vae_AkLb4Q

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    My current insane work schedule keeps getting in the way of my valuable time on the Bunker. I have been wanting to write this all day– and have been unsure about writing this all day.

    Throughout this comment thread, people have been commenting on, and reacting to, Louis Theroux’s Q&A reply in which he cited the “good works” of Scientology. My view may not be terribly popular here, so please read through the whole thing before informing me that I am just that wrong.

    Without having seen the film, and based only on comments from those who were there, I believe that Theroux had to take the stand he did in order to stay true to the premise of his film. And that premise is, according to Tony, “he relished the idea of being the first journalist who would find something positive to say about Scientology.” Note that it is not that Theroux believed that Scientology is positive, just that he wanted to find something positive to say about it. So it stands to reason he would, indeed, retreat to Scientology’s own claims of socially acceptable “good works” in his reply to the question posed.

    Another reason he may have answered as he did is because (and here’s where my trouble may begin) it is the case that Scientology has “done some good” in this world. Before the knives come out, a caveat. I will be speaking of two distinct things: the official Church of Scientology and individual Scientologists, both in and out of the Church.

    The Church of Scientology, like it or not, has managed over the last sixty years to do a very few good things. I will be the first to say that this was done to create, as much as possible, a veneer of respectability. It’s a thin veneer, and exceedingly cynical, but within it fall such things as the odd check presented to a community association, free Christmas displays in Hollywood and Clearwater, and the use of Scientology facilities for (actual) worthy causes. None of this is even remotely matched by the horror and abuse that Scientology has visited upon the world, but it is, nonetheless, good.

    When it comes to individual Scientologists, it is a different story. Over the years, there have been many, many people who have entered Scientology with very good intentions, and who have managed, in spite of LRH and his toxic creation, to do some good in its name. We know that most of what Scientology claims to itself is actually the efforts of individual Scientologists. Volunteer Ministers are not funded by the Church. The Way to Happiness Foundation makes members buy the pamphlets that are distributed “free of charge.” The IAS members directly fund most, if not all of Scientology’s “drug education.” Regardless of the motives of each of these individuals, the result is, like it or not, the perceived “good” of Scientology.

    So if Louis Theroux wants to throw them a bone in a Q&A, I will look at it within the context of his total message. Is “My Scientology Movie” really “something positive to say about Scientology?” I will reserve final judgement until I see it for myself. Meanwhile, I will continue to give him the benefit of the doubt.

    • Scientology is a mix of major lies and some truth that wants to be seen as the ultimate truth.
      That makes it the ultimate lie and a scam. Perhaps Louis is yet to learn it. Or he knows already.

    • Rasha

      The things Scientology does which we construe as “good” seem to me to be things they must do to be accepted (or at least tolerated), and function, in the Real World. They, collectively and as an entity, are separate from the norms and expectations of society, and as we saw from their described behavior during and after LT sought their own input, they cannot relate to anything not of or fully endorsing their insular view. Reminds me of Pink Floyd’s Lost For Words:

      So I opened my door to my enemy
      And I asked, could we wipe the slate clean?
      But they tell me to please go and fuck myself –
      Y’know, you just can’t win…

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        Tolerated is the perfect word here. They do the absolute, bare minimum, then hotly demand to be treated as if their largesse was epic.

        • Frodis73

          ^^This a million times. Also note those stupid anti drug pamphlets are filled with outdated and/or wrong info in a lot of cases…so, not really much help or good, but the appearance of something good.

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            And The Way to Happiness. So… profound. It’s like the thoughts of a dozen great minds were brought together, and then artlessly melded into one corrupted message.

            • Frodis73

              Yeah, it’s real hard to say that is something “good”. It’s benevolent, but I don’t consider it good or doing something good for a community or mankind one bit.

    • Mark

      Well put, Doug: Louis did say some critics and exes err in taking a too “Manichaean” view of the church, which I suspect is his post-Modern relativist-speak for “black-and-white”. Scientology must do some good for some people, at least at the very beginning (even if that’s simply part of the con) or nobody would join it in the first place; though whether that still obtains now Shortarse has tinkered with just about everything isn’t so certain.

      Otherwise, we SP’s are left with little to persuade those still in the bubble that life out here isn’t so bad, save a paltry version of the fundamentalist’s hypocritical “hate the sin, love the sinner” approach, which is really a cop-out…

    • Libertylover

      I have watched almost everything Louis has done. I think that going in undecided and a little naive is his shtick. He “acts” dumb like a fox and gets people to condemn themselves once he puts them at ease and lets you think for yourself and doesn’t look researched. I’m sure some people who know, like almost everyone here at the bunker, might be disappointed a little bit. Honestly though it’s not his style to be researched. I myself am delighted that it will show DM as a loony crazy bully. That will stick in peoples minds. I’m sure that no one will be clamoring to join after watching his movie. I don’t know but I imagine putting Marty on the spot is more for the audience to verify that this isn’t exaggerated. He talks to the others that confirm it all.
      He said Marty liked the movie, so it can’t really be a take down of Marty IMO and I think he caught him at the end of his belief before he rejected it all.
      I can’t wait to see it, I think it will be fun to watch and most of the time it can make you pretty mad and sad learning about all the abuses and assaults on human dignity in COS.
      Humor/humour can be a powerful weapon and I’ve seen Louis damn with faint praise too many times to believe he isn’t doing that here.

    • aquaclara

      That veneer, creating the perception of good, is quite thin, as you say. I actually think it’s so thin as to be just a mere facade. But I think I agree with the main point you’re making here re Theroux’s film. We may find, after watching the film, that he was trying to find the part that was not a scam, in his quest to be fair.

      I think your point might be about asking us to hold an open mind until we can see the movie. Totally agree.

      And it is possible there is some fine British snark hidden in the pic, too.

      You and I know that even a seemingly innocuous free Christmas display is anything but, because it’s not free– every person who attends is regged– seen as a meat body to be lured into Scientology’s web. And of course it has absolutely nothing to do with Christmas.

      I honestly cannot find a simple example of Scientology as a good neighbor. But maybe Theroux felt he did, however slim. Or maybe he had to add something to avoid a lawsuit in England. Or maybe he simply made a mistake– he would not be the first one to have done so.

      • Cece

        Aquaclara, were you ever at the Hollywood x-mas Winter Wonderland yourself? I was every year for about 8 years when I lived above it on the 7th floor of the HI and then after as it was a place to take the kids every xmas. Also I was on the RPF twice 82/83 and 91/92 or thereabouts building the thing. So was there each x-mas for about 25 years +/-.

        • Cece

          Actually I don’t recall building it in 82/83. I think that was the year the New-Years event took place in the PAC buildings and I was running the crew installing sound systems in all the building hallways – AO, ASH and LAO then running it while LRH mesmerized everyone for the special New Years message so maybe not that year. No I don’t think I was allowed to take my kids there that year either 🙁 [f**kn RPF anyway ***!$#@^&]

        • aquaclara

          Wow. Nope, I lived in Clearwater. There must be quite a few Bunkerites who would have bumped into you over those 25 years in Cali. You put a lot of hard work into that. Makes me sad that Miscavige took advantage of his own people under the pretense of a holiday celebration, seemingly fun and happy. RPF, grrrrr.

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        Scientology as a good neighbor?!? You got me on that one!

      • Juicer77

        What I would have given to be in on that private conversation between Tony and Louis after the screening…

        • aquaclara

          I know! The vault of Tony is locked up tight on that right now. He must have many fascinating bits stockpiled in there.

          So happy you’re there to be a part of all this excitement! The timing was perfect. Woofy J and Meow J settling in well?

          • Juicer77

            The timing was so perfect that God had to be smiling on us. Everyone settling in well. WoofyJ and MeowJ had their own little holidays while we were in London. WoofyJ even had a doggy buddy and a huge play area to romp around in. It’s all good 🙂 I’ll email you and share some pics when I get a chance.

            • aquaclara

              Oh, so nice! They must be settling in well. And you and HubbyJ too. Such a gorgeous country to spend time in. Send pics when you can. Leaves are changing here, and a cold snap has set in.

    • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

      A few days ago I met two members of the Falun Gong group, both well educated and personable people. We were staying in the same private home of a friend and did so for several days. I got to know them well. Some of their beliefs are bizarre but it doesn’t seem like there is a much money involved and I didn’t detect an us vs. them attitude to the world. After a wee bit of internet research I have come to think Falun Gong is a misguided sect but probably not a cult.

      Where am I going with this?

      I thought about saying to them, “Is there anything at all wrong with the Falun Gong?” If they answered, “No,” I would have concluded that FG is a cult and that my two new friends were brainwashed pigeons. They still may well be. I didn’t have the nerve to ask the question.

      But does the same apply to us? If asked, “Is there anything at all good about the Church of Scientology?” and I can’t think of something, does that make me a blind hate monger?

      Scientology is overwhelmingly horrible but here are some good things:

      It can help people to communicate if they don’t take it too far.
      It can work as psychotherapy if the therapy is not taken too far.
      It can help a person be responsible for himself if he doesn’t take that idea too far.
      It can help a person to work hard if he doesn’t get ridiculous about it.
      It can urge a person to dress better but it can also turn a person into a superficial skunk.

      That’s all I can come up with. It is all, ultimately, rotten to the core but taken in the right dose, a dose which is almost impossible to measure out correctly, it can do some good. There.

      • .. which all pales besides making the trains run on time, and we all know where that ended up.

        So I don’t care if someone gets a little bit of useful stuff. Happily, many other sources of good help are available and the few people who stumble on the half-assed version peddled by the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology do wake up and leave after a short while (the majority of them, anyway), so I can concentrate on all the varied reasons why a world without that particular criminal organisation is a better one.

    • Juicer77

      Excellent post, DDD. Eagerly awaiting what you have to say once you’ve seen it.

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        Thank you. Coming from someone who has seen the film, this comment is appreciated.

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    In case you haven’t seen this short video of the clams questioning Alex Gibney at the IDA: “Alex Gibney responds to Church of Scientology confrontations”

    https://youtu.be/eeXPif_rVfQ

    • skiesareblue

      Alex Gibney’s documentary gets accused of “being full of lies”, but as of yet, no one can just name ONE.

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        Stith’s documentary will no doubt school Gibney on how to make an impartial and honest documentary. HA!

        • skiesareblue

          That will be good for a laugh.

          • Intergalactic Walrus

            Probably just a longer form of the sleazy vids they’ve already spammed all over the place. The only ones who come off looking bad in those are the people who made them.

      • MM

        Also note that the guy only had to look at the people that were in the film, and he immediately KNEW that ‘a lot of what Alex was telling’ were lies. Sounds totally legit!

        • Intergalactic Walrus

          Notice that he chose his words carefully. He never says that he watched the film. I was waiting for him to be asked if he had because it sounds like he has not. Is that enlightened documentarian behavior, I think not. What a pathetic poser.

          • Frodis73

            I was thinking the same thing (about whether he, or Norman had actually seen it) and was half expecting Alex to point that out. IIRC, it was reported that they did sneak in to just the Q&A.

    • Frodis73

      My crush on AG grows…watching him confront and shatter those dorks was very satisfying. Any sane person can see which side is hiding.

      • beauty for ashes

        I have a crush on Ben Mankewicz, so we’ll double date 🙂

        • Frodis73

          How funny, I actually crush on him too, but will take Gibney on that date. The four of us would have a blast! Lol.

          • Baby

            6 of us..

            • Frodis73

              Oh yeah, I’m all for giving room at the table for you and Jason.

            • daisy

              And Grandma wants them all. Look like we are going to have a bitch fight.

            • Baby

              You are invited, but you have to bring your own date! I never shared as a child..I never share as an adult.. So there.

            • daisy

              I wil bring fat beagle but I may not go home with her. Is it one of those key party*s I hope

            • Baby

              Well I will take Fat beagle and my date.. I will give you a key to my heart..

            • Baby

              And We’ll All go Dancing.. Daisy NOT invited..She has to bring her own date..

              [img]http://www.pic4ever.com/images/123.gif

    • Mike Leopold

      Whenever there is level playing field in the Marketplace of Ideas, as there was in the above video, Scientology loses very badly.
      That’s why they so often rely on thuggish behavior.
      Gibney is great!

      • Juicer77

        This ^^^

    • Donna Cline Sargent

      thank you for this , do you have a link for the whole interview ? thanx again

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        If it is posted somewhere, I haven’t been able to find it 🙁

        • Donna Cline Sargent

          thank you for trying

    • Nice.

    • Juicer77

      LOVE how they stop the hecklers so the $cientologist can ask his question. They consider it, and give a straight answer. Gibney even directs people to the Freedumb mag web site when Norman Taylor says they didn’t ask for his input, and gives a thoughtful answer.

  • worstcultever

    Thanks Tony and everybody, just a ton of great reading here yesterday and today

    Oh, and way downthread today, somebody mentioned Jack Benny – so here’s my contribution, a favorite Jack Benny quote

    “I don’t deserve this award, but then again I have arthritis and I don’t deserve that either.”

  • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

    I better not complain.

    Covering Scientology is difficult.

    Very time consuming.

    • You are skipping the gradient, Chuck.
      Seriously though, I feel what you feel, but Louis does what Louis does best and it’s usually a thing of beauty.

      • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

        I’m so not a normal citizen, I’ve missed way too many years of middle class media entertainment there’s no catching up.

        • aquaclara

          We can catch you up! And oh, yes, you are quite normal.

        • Love you Chuck. Keep on rocking.

  • aegerprimo

    Miss Lovely in the Erie Canal. (F5)

    • Baby

      Awww beautiful Aeger.. wow.. you are gettin around..

  • Little David

    Interesting, Theroux seems to have perceived Rathbun as a phony con-artist and portrayed him as such. Theroux might have felt it important to show that just because someone leaves the church and becomes a critic of it doesn’t make them an honest reputable person.

    • Frodis73

      I can’t speak for LT obviously, but I really do not think he thought of Marty as a con artist nor did he portray him as one. He was just probing deeper into the question of “why should we believe you” in his way. TO covered this really well in his review by pointing out that both Mike and Marty have been great sources that have not lied to him…they have not been as forthcoming as he and others would like, but they have never lied AFAIK. Also, I have not seen the film, but I think you missed the mark on this.

  • To Marty and Mike – thank you for sharing your journey. I appreciate it.

    • Jimmy3

      I don’t get it

    • aquaclara

      Echoing your comment.

  • burythenuts

    Folds my arms and gives you the major stink eye!
    And you know EXACTLY who you are!
    Now stand down….!

    • Jimmy3

      I don’t think you’re talking to me but I’m gonna do as you say anyway

      • burythenuts

        Smart move, J3.
        🙂

        • Nat-leficent

          Making those is hard for him XD

          • Ella Raitch

            Maybe we need to start a fund

            • Nat-leficent

              A 5k walk/run? Lol

            • Ella Raitch

              A 5k snark?

            • Nat-leficent

              He could do that in his sleep

      • Juicer77

        When you post, this is what plays in my head. XD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNj_UPvJsig&t=31s

    • Cars

      Flunk? Yup.

      • burythenuts

        If I haven’t told you how happy I am that you are back…I have been remiss.
        I so love the fact you are here.
        Never leave again.
        Please?

        • Cars

          Only if you promise to never leave either.

          P.S. I never left.

          • burythenuts

            I know u didn’t!
            But I so missed your comments.
            I promise not to leave either.
            But sometimes I need to be vewy, vewy quiet!

            • Cars

              Thank you – for your lovely comments and for promising to stay.

              And I understand. Sometimes I need to be wascally quiet, too.

    • Baby

      Hi sweetie … xo

      • burythenuts

        Hi honey. Miss you and Ma!

    • Nat-leficent

      Okay, okay, sheesh 😉

      • burythenuts

        Lol!

    • Big ass baby squirrel.

    • I’ve added quite a few more bits and pieces in the last hour or so

      ….also I came across this little interesting story… I see C.O.B. trying to put this into the next e-meter [maybe]

      pic

      • “Participants’ views on religion and immigration change” LULZ

  • Libertylover

    I really like what Jon Atack says here. I honestly don’t think I could be bull baited very effectively by a Scientologist, but I could be wrong. In my youth I could be described as extremely confrontational and never one to back down from an argument but really where does it get you in the end.
    Scientologists are in a mind trap, but in their mind they believe they are helping and are good people. Some of the greatest people are exes and I do believe that very few go in to be evil, even though they end up doing evil, they don’t see that. It pisses me off to no end seeing all the shenanigans they get up to. Part of that frustration is feeling helpless to do anything about it. What could be better than actually helping them leave the church and name calling and derision makes them more of a clam and they end up staying in and hurting more people. It starts at the point where he explains to be calm and treat them kindly. He explains so well how this actually works, but the whole video is worth watching if you haven’t seen it. He gives a shout out to his bunker critics too.

    https://youtu.be/LHXMWS9Wei4?t=19m44s

  • Diane

    Can’t wait to see this thing. Hopefully it won’t be long before we can watch it from the US.

  • Todd Tomorrow

    Any one been involved with EST?

    • jazzlover

      I think Robert Hammond mentioned that he had been, iirc.

    • Robert Hammond

      yep

      • MaxSpaceman

        yep

    • Robert Eckert

      One of my friends from high school went to EST, years back before it transformed into Landmark. I think it affected him for the worse.

    • Nat-leficent
    • Mike Leopold

      I spied on est around 1973-4.
      Werner gave a talk at the Hotel Roosevelt, I think.
      It was taped, and I stole the tape recording and gave it to my GO masters.
      He borrowed a lot from Hubbard, who also borrowed, but IIRC Werner mentioned Hubs as one of his sources.

      • Libertylover

        Spent many, too many, weekends at the Roosevelt hotel in the eighties.

        • Mike Leopold

          Dare one ask?

          • Libertylover

            Ask me anything, I will answer. I just was volunteering there mostly if I wasn’t doing courses. I saw him hit one of his female staff right before I left. He wasn’t impotent either, like Hubbard. He told me some graphic tales of his sexual adventures and they were quite misogynist. He hated women really but they all loved him and he charmed them into bed and tossed them away.

      • Thanks for being honest, Mike.

        • Mike Leopold

          Hey Dodo – It’s Len Zinberg.
          Met u in NY and Todd in Hartford!

          • I know. It was a great day, Len!

            • Mike Leopold

              Sure was! And if GC wins an Academy Award, the lid will blow off this joint!

        • Supper Powers

          ^^^^^

      • Libertylover

        He wouldn’t have cared you taped it. I brought a lot of his tapes. I found one a few years ago. I thought it was brilliant at the time, but now I’m like what the hell was I thinking?
        He used to say it’s NOT Scientology and that he had only done some courses. He claimed to have studied many philosophies and taken the best from them. I found out many years later that Scientology was after him and he had ripped it off and it was most of what he offered. He was fond of lawyers and it would have been fun seeing the lawyers from both groups battling it out. I think Hubbard tried to take him out but failed, I think he was quite a match for Hubbard.

        • Mike Leopold

          He cared because the tape I stole was the one his own people recorded of his spiel.

          • Libertylover

            OK maybe I misunderstood, he wouldn’t have wanted to be on the hook and Hubbard to have proof he was ripping him off agreed, but he sold the tapes too and they were very similar to his events. He just changed all the words and double talk to his own versions.
            I played to to my girlfriend and she honestly had no idea what he was saying and she is way smarter than me. I kind of felt a lot of shame because I understood it and it was gibberish really. Embarrassed is a better word.

            • Mike Leopold

              Yeah, there’s nothing like waking up, is there?

            • Libertylover

              Damn straight. When I showed up at the bunker, they asked me, ex clam or never in? I said I was an almost in. I was going to try Scientology and liked it was a “science.” I didn’t want to be in a religion. Reading dianetics saved me and my dad taking the piss out of it. EST appealed to me as it was a “technology.” I actually enjoyed the people in there, which kept me in. It attracted a lot of smart and good people. Now I wouldn’t give it a second look. Ah to be in your 20’s and so idealistic. Yep it’s good to be awake.

            • Libertylover

              I have much respect for you Len. I liked seeing you on Australian TV and reading about you.

      • Robert Hammond

        Thanks for sharing. In one of Jeff Augustines, Surviving Scientology videos, Jesse Prince mentioned Hubbard having a big file on Werner Erhard as they tried stopping him from competing and using the “tech.” That would be an interesting story to hear.

        • Libertylover

          I’m waiting for Jesse Prince to tell that tale too. He mostly flew just below the radar and got away with it mostly. I see his wikipedia page and it’s all a lot of crap in my opinion. He got away with it mostly.

          • Robert Hammond

            Yes. I really would like to see someone do a good takedown article linking all of these Scientology spinoffs including EST, Landmark Forum, Lifespring, Eckankar, Access Consciousness, Sedona Method, Avatar, Co-Counseling, Bubba Free John, Dr David Hawkins, The Process Church and so many others.

        • Mike Leopold

          I’m sure it’s true. Unfortunately I can’t shed any further light on it, but I know Jesse is working on a book which should be very interesting, given his position, etc.
          Have you seen his talk at the Toronto Conference?

          • Robert Hammond

            Yes. I watched the whole conference on Vimeo. Quite enlightening. Looking forward to Jesse’s book.

            • Mike Leopold

              With Leah’s book about to hit, not to mention Steve Canane’s book, and Jesse’s book, it seems the “bigoted apostate SP’s living on the fringe of the Internet” are generating statistics that are straight up and vertical!

      • Susie Serve

        In 1974-5, Erhard did a series of EST seminars on Oahu. I was living on Maui and sharing a house with a millionairess who tried to get me to attend the seminars with her, but I wasn’t attracted, although aware of EST via Erhard’s book. Shortly after she returned to Maui and our house, I had a vivid and bad dream about her, bad enough that I moved out to Fleetwood Mac’s old tepee on their piece of land the very next day. Unbeknownst to me, my housemate had flown to California and brought back thousands of dollars of cocaine to sell. One week after I impulsively became rather homeless because of my dream, she was busted, half passed out in what had been our household. One of her pals who hung out at our house ( he wore a hunting shirt all of the time, so I instinctively avoided him) turned out to be a narc. So you can see what good her enthusiastic embrace of EST and all of the money she spent upon it did for her. From then on, I referred to these folks as estholes. Full of jargon. Jargon-coated shit.

    • Libertylover

      I was and I actually got to see Werner Erhard in action and worked for him.
      It’s Scientology light, without the disconnection and fair gaming. He was much more charismatic than Hubbard and a salesman at heart. Most everyone left in the end but he was always bringing in new people just as fast. He was pretty litigious and made it hard to complain or criticize EST/Forum.
      In the end I wasted a lot of time and got fleeced but it could have been worse. The courses promise everything but despite their titles it’s the same course over and over and a big mystery sandwich that keeps you going. Until recently I still believed some of the hogwash, bunker helped me get rid of that.
      He is still alive and “claims” to be just an adviser (like Hubbard) after he had to flee the country. I don’t believe him and it’s called Landmark now. He was quite a bastard behind the scenes and I saw that up close by volunteering all the time. I believe Diane Sawyer got it right and he almost certainly got his daughters to recant their stories of his abuse Scientology style. I believe what they said was the true version and I saw him act up personally.

      • Robert Hammond

        My experience is about the same. Total Scientology spin-off waste of time. I went through in early 80’s. Lots of thought-stopping double talk, group think, appeal to authority, sunk cost fallacy, and confirmation bias. Like you, the Bunker and other critical thinking sites helped me sort out and let go of the false BS (belief systems).

        See also: http://skepdic.com/est.html

    • Robert Hammond

      What did you want to know about it? By the thread below, it looks like a few of us had some interesting experiences in and around the Scientology spinoff cult known as EST and Landmark Forum. Did you ever go through it yourself?

      Check out: http://www.motherjones.com/media/2009/07/landmark-42-hours-500-65-breakdowns

      See also: http://skepdic.com/est.html

    • Snippy_X

      I knew a few people involved with EST and later the forum. I was invited to two of their hard sell seminars. I openly called bullshit, got glared at wickedly and walked out. They were coercing people with shaky hands and no rent money to come up with hundreds of dollars for the weekend version of this hype. Pissed me off something awful. One person who did do the EST retreats was a truly brilliant academic. As far as I could tell, the only thing they teach people is how to stare at another person with dead eyes. They think that makes them superior to you.

      • Libertylover

        I was one of those coercers. I’m sorry you had to go through that. We got nothing for it either, at least some of the reggers get commission in the Church. I used to think I was all that too, but I was just a deluded fool.

    • cheri pop (Mary k)

      Omg that is so wierd.. i never heard of EST until last night, I was watching a documentary on John Denver and there was a brief mention about him practicing EST. and now I come to the bunker and seen it mentioned again.. i think I will do some research on it, because it was just briefly mentioned in the documentary.. or can someone give me a quick run down on what’s it about. Thanks

  • Watch it live: AC/DC – Hells Bells

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tOKYFR4Rzg

  • Nat-leficent

    Do you has ESP? Hmmm?

    http://www.psychicscience.org/esp3.aspx

    I got 8 out of 25 — so “no” I doesn’t

  • Vaquera

    *****!!!!! METS !!!!!*****

  • Sandy

    METS!!!!!!!!!

    • Ex-Christian Scientist

      Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

      • Sandy

        *teary*

  • Glen

    Congratulations to Mets and those New York home boys Jazzlover and Tony.

    • jazzlover

      Gracias. Tips hat. Hard to believe. This is the bane of being a Mets fan. Always expect the worst 🙂

      • Glen

        Should be a good series with the Cubs. As someone with no dog in the fight this year, I’m liking this Mets team.

        • jazzlover

          The way baseball is these days, it’s really anybody’s game. The Mets are a flawed team, but if the pitching catches real fire, I could see them riding that to a title. That’s weird to say, because the 2006 team was better than this one and they fell short. Damn Wainwright 🙂

          • Glen

            Pitching is key. Mets definitely have some arms. Last year we had our ace in Bumgarner.

            • jazzlover

              Yeah, he was masterful. Next year’s Mets rotation: Harvey, DeGrom, Syndergaard, Wheeler, Matz. I know a few Yanks fans that are jealous 🙂 The problem is they probably won’t sign Cespedes (because he’ll ask for a billion dollars) or Murphy (because they don’t really see him as a 2nd baseman). So, their offense could be back to spotty again.

            • Glen

              Fierce rotation. Don’t worry about next year yet. 🙂

            • jazzlover

              I hear you. It’s gonna be difficult to pay all those guys the big bucks. Especially with the Madoff excuses still flying around.

  • the other journo’s are definitely getting cuter with their scientology headlines… this one’s a doozy!

    pic

    http://moviepilot.com/posts/2015/10/16/these-8-xenuphobic-celebrities-boldly-spoke-out-against-scientology-3592513?lt_source=external,manual

    • ReallyMGM

      That story says they auditioned Jennifer Lawrence for the Tom Cruise dating pool. She’s only 25. He married Katie in 2005, divorced in 2012. Is this a new set of audition for girlfriends?

      • jazzlover

        Sounds like a real life hunger games.

      • Are_sics

        You’re not thinking “whole track”.

    • Glen

      That is really funny. National Enquirer meets the cult. Coming soon the a checkout counter at your supermarket.

    • PerpetualOutflow

      Very funny piece.

    • Newiga

      Xenuphobic! Hahahahaa!

    • Juicer77

      Didn’t read all the comments, but I hope someone schooled Mr. DePaoli that Lisa Marie Presley is allowed contact with her still-in mom solely because: money and celebrity. Contrast that with http://tonyortega.org/2013/05/09/lori-hodgson-defies-scientology-disconnection-surprises-her-son-in-texas/

  • Lurkness

    Congrats to the Mets. Go Cubs!!!

    • Commodore H. McCringleberry

      Agreed. Go Cubbies!! My best friend is a lifelong Cubs fan after growing up in a fairly shitty family situation in Chicago. He’s also one of the most knowledgeable baseball people I know. The slowly rising level of giddy, exultant, sheer pinch-me-to-prove-im-not-dreaming excitement in him as they get further and further into the playoffs makes it impossible for anyone that encounters him to root for anyone else.

      • Juicer77

        In honor of your friend (and the fact that my beloved Orioles stank it up this year) I will cheer on the Cubs. I hope they go all the way!!

  • jazzlover

    New York v. Chicago. The way it oughta be.

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    If I haven’t said it in a while, may I just say now how much I like– no, LOVE– the Bunker community?

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Well, except maybe for the ones who come here to talk about baseball…

      • Kay

        Laugh

      • The figure skating fans here piss me off the most.

        • ReallyMGM

          Ever met a figure skating mom? Meaner than soccer moms.

          • I bet. Ice Queens.

          • ReallyMGM

            OT: Witnessed a couple go at each other with the ferocity of pro wrestlers over which 10 year old got to skate a solo. They were led out of of the arena in handcuffs, bloody with their shirts ripped. Thank goodness the kids were on the ice doing a group number when it happened and none saw it.

            This was right before the Nancy Kerrigan attack. My first thought was one of those women had done it.

            • Ella Raitch

              Is that like what you’d call a ‘contretemp’

          • Ella Raitch

            Sounds like ballet mums

      • Ella Raitch

        Cricket on the other hand…..Sigh, the amateur season starts tomorrow; months ahead of spending quality time on Sunday watching grass grow….

  • Tony Ortega

    Your proprietor’s flight from London landed in time so that we caught the last three innings.

    Hoo-ray!

    • Cece

      Thank you so much for all your hard work Tony and crew. I’ve had a delightful day just knowing it’s all getting better and better. Even thou I drove 15 miles to Harbor Frieght and forgot my wallet and coupons and ran out of gas on my way back… it was a truly wonderful day. My guy brought me my wallet at the gas station I barely rolled into and off I went back to HF to stock up on batteries and 2 cheap flashlights and get my free 25′ tape measure. It’s the little things these days that are just so much fun because I do them without the mind trips I fell into from the 35 years in Scientology ‘thinking/believing’ I knew lodgic (smile).

      • I love these wog wins!

        • Cece

          Tehe 🙂

      • Juicer77

        I like your positive attitude, sunflower 🙂 (because they always turn their face to the sun)

    • jazzlover

      Awesome, eh? Harvey vs. Lester on Saturday.

    • Welcome back!

    • Snippy_X

      Most excellent dissemination in foreign lands, too.

  • With Chris’ permission. Hello lurkers!

    • TexasBroad

      Spiffy! But Critical Thinker suits him much better. He looks younger and healthier now.

      • Evey Hammond

        I’ve noticed that, too. It looks like leaving Co$ puts a spring in one’s step. Same is true of Tory Magoo and others.

    • Newiga

      Words cannot express how happy I am that Chris is out.

    • PerpetualOutflow

      Just wow.

    • Commodore H. McCringleberry

      You gotta give it to the guy though- that’s a REALLY solid fake smile.

      • Susie Serve

        This oyster gots no pearl.

    • Juicer77

      Hey, girl… 😉

  • SUCCESS STORY!!! Since leaving Scientology and becoming a human being once more I have to say my life has really improved a hundredfold!!! I am much more intelligent!!! My critical discernment is through the roof!!! I genuinely love and like people!!! For real!!! I have so much emotion!!! I am so not obsessed with money!!! Life is so good!!! I really wish all Scientologists could have the knowledge and gains that I now have!!! True!!! Many grateful thanks to COB and LRH for showing me the way!!!

    • That’s deep!

    • Supper Powers

      You are so zesty! Glad you are out, too.

      • Juicer77

        That’s the perfect word for Pete 🙂

    • Nat-leficent

      This belongs in SP Phenomena section of the latest issue of Askance
      F5

    • Mike Leopold

      It’s true! I’ve seen it with my own eyes..
      Leaving Scientology works!

    • jazzlover

      I am genuinely happy for you, Pete! It’s amazing that it sometimes takes contrast to make us appreciate the little things in life. I’m sorry that your “contrast” had to be so extreme. You won, though, and that’s what counts 🙂

  • Lady Squash

    I’m disappointed to hear that Theroux made Rathbun’s reliability a central issue. I’m disappointed to hear that he doesn’t seem to get that Scientology isn’t about spiritual freedom, but about stealing your soul. I’m disappointed that Theroux doesn’t seem to get that almost everything the Church says is either an outright lie or deceptively misleading. I’m disappointed that Theroux doesn’t seem to realize that even if it appears that the Church does some good sometimes, it’s only doing it to lure a person to the final destination–the ovens. Theroux seems to have missed the point the at its core, the Church is sinister. Sounds like a good laugh and a missed opportunity.

    • We should watch it.

      • Lady Squash

        How does someone in the US watch it? Netflicks? Patience because it will be coming to a theater near me?

    • PerpetualOutflow

      Haven’t seen the film, but I bet he gets it but has an entirely different way of telling that story.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Are you making this assessment based on viewing the film, or based on comments and reviews?

      • Lady Squash

        My assessment was based on Tony’s comments. I questioned my integrity in doing that because I think poorly of others who do the same. My emotions got the best of me. : ( Juicer77 says Theroux does not give CofS a pass. I am looking forward to watching it.

    • Juicer77

      You may feel differently once you’ve seen the film. I think you will be pleasantly surprised. It is not a sell-out to the Co$ by any means. 🙂

  • Supper Powers
    • Intergalactic Walrus

      The CO$ had better be brought up in every interview the press does with this idiot because the voters deserve to know what a bottom-feeder he is.

      • Frodis73

        Absolutely. They way his spokesperson evaded and/or answered questions was interesting. Let’s hope his office gets a lot of calls, letters, emails, etc. over this story. The voters need to know.

        • Intergalactic Walrus

          Crawling under the CO$ rock to get votes may fly in Clearwater but I doubt it will fly in the rest of the state. Whoever his GOP opponents are, they should be able to taint him as a cult enabler at the vary least.

      • Juicer77

        This ^^^

    • Frodis73

      Well this is not good news. I can’t believe somebody running for senate is stupid enough to be that buddy buddy with Co$. Maybe after this story runs and he hears from more voters he will change his mind. Unless, of course, he is secretly one of them…now that is a scary idea. We all know if sci was able to properly infiltrate and safe-point enough people they would be thrilled…that thought IS scary. Thankfully, they are mostly a joke…guess this idiot didn’t get the memo.

      • ReallyMGM

        The absolute worst thing is for the CoS to have is political supporters in high places. I am sure our proprietor is on it. I hope the Tampa Bay Times is on it for local coverage.

        It has been a long time, but this was one of the ways Jim Jones slipped under the radar in San Franscisco. He had endorsements from George Moscone, Harvey Milk and others because he could deliver votes.

    • valshifter

      scary, we have to make sure that church and state don’t mix, I knew they will try to infiltrate their own politician, bastards

    • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

      On a positive note, though, I’m glad the fact that Op Snow White was the largest domestic spying incident is coming up in press like this. It’s a fact that didn’t even register with me till I read Miss Lovely. It’s a revelation I think will resonate with the average reader and really illustrate how uniquely dangerous the CoS can be.

  • Eleventy

    Australian Bunkerites! Iain posted about wanting to meet some Australian Bunkerbugs when Tony is in town. I like this idea. I belong to a FB group, where when a public event the group would be interested in is held, members who want to meet other members wear something orange so they can identify each other in the crowd and introduce themselves.

    Shall we do this?

    • Ella Raitch

      I’m keen for meet ups in Perth – have made contact with What’s Suppressive but don’t know of any other West Aussies – holler out!

      • Juicer77

        I respectfully demand that you all meet up and post about it. That is all. 😉

        • Ella Raitch

          You know you set a very high bar Juicer

          • Juicer77

            You are sweet. If all I get is details on what everyone is drinking, I’ll be happy 😉

    • TheMirrorThetan

      Which event are you talking about? I don’t think any of us are attending all four.

      • Ella Raitch

        har har

  • Pierrot

    *** RED X +–+ Reminder +–+ RED X *** Friday, 16 October 2015.

    Good morning Night Owls and Early Birds,

    Monday 12th: SFBay scraped in and saved the day.
    Tuesday 13th: NO SCORE
    Wednesday 14th: NO SCORE
    Thursday 15th: San Antonio scraped in and saved the day

    RedX tips & Complaints procedure are included in the google doc under the RedXTips tab.
    Flag the lies, whack a few bait & switch ads : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-Kvg78kCcvo5gL7UfPcmhmbsagTNtdj0y2LAiHVFrCU/pubhtml

    F5… Mysterious Cult by Gyaban enhanced by DodoTheLaser for RedX, flickred by Aeger Primo
    : https://www.flickr.com/photos/120371503@N05/16030744658/in/set-72157642802079293

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    It looks like they literally handed out Kool-aid to these kids, UGH! (Venezuela)
    PHOTO CAPTION – “Working on prevention in the poorest sectors”
    https://instagram.com/p/8xsOYQA3LB/?taken-by=rafitorincon

    • ReallyMGM

      Great. Sugary non-nutritious drink when they need shoes and other basic needs.

      • Juicer77

        IKR? Our congregation is sponsoring (and now regularly visiting) a school in Guatemala and we send care packages of soap, clothing and other basics. These Vulture Ministers are beyond ridiculous. At least the residents can use those pamphlets for starting fires or something equally useful.

        • Intergalactic Walrus

          But just look at their faces – they are overjoyed!

        • ReallyMGM

          Thank goodness for churches, organizations and individuals who help those in need. I hope they at least kicked a soccer ball around with them after giving them the pamphlets.

      • kemist

        The poor of other countries are reaping the benefits of type II diabetes and obesity, why should they be left out ?

    • valshifter

      Thanks scientology for the thousands of boxes of shoes so desperately needed, they came on time.

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    Oh, for chissakes! What kind of a hinky nursing program still sends their students to the CO$ “Psychiatry: An Industry of Death Museum” to get educated about psychiatry? WTF??? (posted last week)

    PHOTO CAPTION – leanne.q_ – Field trip #nurses2016#psychiatry

    cassandra_spinks – Interesting place! Very eye opening!

    leanne.q_@cassandra_spinks – yes! Definitely makes me second think everything!

    rachellmattner – Ah I had to go there too it was awful lol
    https://instagram.com/p/8jVXUBmKVB/?taken-at=220254489

    • Nat-leficent

      Well as long as leanne.q_ second “thinks” everything!
      XD

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        When they are in the gift shop and see the creepy “PSYCHIATRISTS ARE HERE: HIDE YOUR CHILDREN’ and “PSYCHIATRIST: LABELS FOR PROFIT DRUGS TO DEATH” souvenir T-shirts, I’d like to think that they would realize that this place is F’d up! SMH
        (refresh)

    • Juicer77

      WHAT?!?!????

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        I hadn’t seen any of these pics posted for a while and I was hoping that Going Clear and all of the bad publicity that the CO$ has gotten this year, had put an end to this stupidity but apparently not. This was posted last week and it appears that the nurse (student nurse?) who posted it is working in College Hospital’s psyche ward! 🙁

        • Juicer77

          I am praying they visited “ironically.”
          It’s up to us as the general public to keep shining the light on the Co$ activities so the word gets out how sick and manipulative they are. The Co$ relies on ignorance to slither in wherever it can.

          • Intergalactic Walrus

            I’m afraid this appears to have been for “educational” purposes for the nursing student who posted it…

            • Juicer77

              GRRRRRRRRRRRRR

    • Ella Raitch

      I have a vague recollection of a Scientology related nursing course criticised for having a visit to the CCHR museum as part of the nursing training RMycroft? Off to Google I go.

      • kemist

        Oh, dear.

        This makes me happy to live in a place where nursing is a controlled profession – and quite highly paid too, if you can take the stress, pass the state exams and work dismal hours.

        Here only “nursing assistants” (they are not called like that anymore) can come out of private schools, and they are not qualified for any work beyond bringing food to patients, moving them from room to room, and sanitation.

        • Ella Raitch

          In Australia all registered and enrolled nursing quals are controlled by an accreditation council. I helped a ‘community college’ go through accreditation to deliver Cert IV level nursing and it was tough!! Toughest accreditation process I have ever been through. Things like field practice are very closely monitored.

          • kemist

            That is how it should be.

            A nursing degree from another country is useless here. Most people don’t understand why that is, because our health system needs more nurses. When you see things like this though, you’re happy that foreigners who want to practice nursing here have to redo the entire course and qualifications.

            • Juicer77

              A friend of ours who recently moved here is a highly trained and experienced nurse, and cannot work in the UK unless she basically redoes all her training. In a way it’s frustrating, but I understand why the NHS is so particular about it.

            • Ella Raitch

              Same here – there are identified re-registration pathways depending on what qualification you have and from which country, but there is no automatic conversion.

      • ReallyMGM

        Sounds like a college where degrees come on a paper pad where they just write your name in the blank and tear it off…after you have written them a check, of course.

    • Sookie Sookie

      John Oliver did a great spot on for-profit colleges, and mentions a Corinthian College nursing program, whose graduates never once set foot in a hospital, and who had to attend the Sci Anti-Psych museum for credit. It is truly WTF. (starts at around 9:40)

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8pjd1QEA0c

      • Ella Raitch

        Thank you too

      • valshifter

        wow that is insane, sounds like they were pretending to be a school but probably a front group for scientology those students got ripped off, and that is why they are now closed. they probably were found out. scientology sucks, what a scam.

    • Frodis73

      Can you send her the link to the Oliver piece and tell her CCHR is a scam and front for sci? Not sure if this is instagram or not…

      • ReallyMGM

        Someone needs to not only inform the professor, but the school administration.

        Edit: oh, they are closed. GOOD!!!!!

        • Intergalactic Walrus

          I doubt the school she attends is closed as they went to the museum last week, apparently.

          • ReallyMGM

            One closes, another opens…faculty shifts.

        • Frodis73

          I know. I’d love to send them an email but I didn’t find what school she goes to listed. How did you find out it’s closed? She just posted that pic last week…it doesn’t seem possible that they would be closed…

          • ReallyMGM

            It was another similar school that was closed. Comments were going fast.

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        Good idea! I don’t have an Instagram account but here is the link to her Instagram if someone knows how to send a message/comment: https://instagram.com/leanne.q_/ (it’s the 3rd pic)

        • Done.

          • Frodis73

            Let us know if she replies.

            • Comment was removed. I tried again. I’ll probably get blocked.

  • B4you

    Louis Sebastian Theroux is supposed to be weird, so he does weird things 🙂

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Theroux

  • Juicer77

    Had to be done… (f5)

    • jazzlover

      This is one of those rare times when I wish that I had some serious shooping skillzzzzzzzzzzz. LOL

      • Juicer77

        try this… easy peasy. Just does memes but still fun 🙂 https://imgflip.com/memegenerator

        • jazzlover

          Thanks! You have now been promoted to the head of the “favorite Americans in England” class 😉

          • Juicer77

            What an honor! I shall endeavour to live up to your expectations!

            • jazzlover

              I have no expectations. Remember me? Underdressed and overstressed 😉

            • beauty for ashes

              I would totally looooove it if you taught us back in the states about all the new English expressions and slang you are learning. ***ahem** That is as it relates to scientology as that is totally on topic. 🙂

            • Juicer77

              i-would but i-Betty told me calling people “wankerface” is frowned upon !XD

            • beauty for ashes

              I Looooove ** wanker** , And wankerface is technically what you’d call Miscavige? And that is totally on~topic~ useful for international j&Ding!

            • Alice Graves

              Like “shouty crackers”? Theroux used this term when describing John Sweeney’s shouting meltdown – he went all “shouty crackers.”

            • beauty for ashes

              Shouty Crackers! love love love Alice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            • Alice Graves

              I would love to import the term here but our American dialect is too bland to do it justice – it just wouldn’t fly in the same way.

  • B4you

    This is how you do it on youtube 🙂

    https://youtu.be/LHXMWS9Wei4?t=1899

    • Edward Clarke

      I would have to add a disclaimer at 1:10 when he quotes the ‘purpose of religion’, per the Dalai Lama. He then says that LRH fails to comply with this purpose.

      Not only have we failed to establish that this Dalia Lama quote has any basis in fact, or in any version of reality we are aware of, it is also demonstratably untrue almost everywhere in the world religion is practiced today and even more so in the past.

      The quote is, not to put too fine a point on it, a whopper.

  • Juicer77

    Hey! I demand my trophy for Luckiest SP with Meritoriusness for getting into not one but TWO $ci move premieres in 2015!

    But I must share the honor with AquaClara, THDNE and JohnnyTank for making it possible at all. You will be thanked in a dignified manner in my acceptance speech. Which will, of course, be filmed on the patented TamponCam (TM). 😉

  • Robert Hammond

    Here is the Vimeo link. There may be a discount available but you would have to check with Jim Beverley, Jon Atack, or Tony for the code: https://vimeo.com/ondemand/gettingclear

  • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

    I like this last line “Maybe Rathbun ought to put him on the cans for that one. What’s your withhold, Louis?”
    He does seem to be a little naive or something. Leaving out women and important points as noted in the article, was not nice.

    • Spackle Motion

      I almost feel a little sympathy for Rathbun here, but there’s no denying that he does have a credibility issue with his (in my opinion) half-truths that he usually spins to benefit his ego (“Scientology Warrior”?? come on…..). Not telling the complete and objective truth about his actions is akin to fibbing. He may be 100% honest on how others acted, including Miscavige, but he surely squirms and spins when confronted with his own past deeds.

      Rathbun should have known the job was dangerous when he took it, which I think he did. I do give him credit for participating in this production.

      • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

        Thanks Spackle, you seem to understand. Credit deserved, some sympathy, right. There are many many important and unimportant people who have left and could tell stories too, altho remain quiet or undercover for various reasons. They need to heal and actually hide in shame as needed, and want nothing to do with it anymore. So those, in their time, who do speak up I admire and support.

        I’m not blaming nor hold any grudge to those who don’t speak out, as they are just trying to have a real life again and don’t want interference or trouble. In time they may tell and/or support others. Been there!

      • Juicer77

        You will find Theroux’s movie as fascinating as I did, then. Well said.

      • Bert Allen

        I agree. While I wish he would disclose fully, I understand why he doesn’t. I think he fears full disclosure will turn many in the anti- COS community against him. I am not sure that this fear is legitimate, but I am not sure it is wrong either.

  • flyonthewall

    test

    • Robert Eckert

      When I refresh I see the picture very tiny.

      • flyonthewall

        thnx Robert

  • beauty for ashes

    Watched the Wikileaks movie with Benedict Cumberbatch. Two things surprised to learn about. The scene about leaking all the OT materials and exposing Lron. And that Julian was a from a cult~ Family of God? IIRC.
    Anyone know any good reading material on the subject? It’s amazing to me that I seem to have missed this bit of Scientology history. (and yes a little embarrassing) Was it just a blip or was it big news? What does everyone remember about this bit of history? Merci 🙂

  • I’m sharing the inspiration for the joke. Now do you get it?

  • Saw it today. Paz de la Huerta gatecrashing Louis’ interview with Marty made me laugh. I think he dealt well with the few interactions he had with current members (Catherine Fraser in particular). While it doesn’t deal with disconnection or any of the other horrendous policies the Church promotes, I think the film will deter people further from getting involved to begin with.

  • Ruby Marlowe

    Can’t wait to see it! I’m surprised he didn’t lampoon Golden Era Productions. Who would they have cast as L. Con? What’s Marty’s problem Tony? Hasn’t he given up on the “freezoning” garbage? Jesse Prince and Hana Eltringham-Whitfield have stated during the German Anonymous conference that there’s really nothing to reform in Rondroidism, it’s nothing more than an outdated form of Rogerian therapy and sci fi bullshit. Has Monique talked to him about seeing a psychiatrist? Do you thin Dr. Steve Hassan could put him into a real session?

  • The movie sounds great! I can’t wait to see it!