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THE GETTING CLEAR CONFERENCE: How to see the videos that lay Scientology bare

Jon_Atack_Jim_Beverley

 
Historian Jon Atack (right) and religion professor James Beverley put together a remarkable gathering of people in Toronto in June. We were fortunate to see people like Paulette Cooper and Nancy Many and Jonny Jacobsen and Nora Crest and Nan McLean and so many others all get together for the first time.

Beverley and Atack made sure the event would be recorded at a high level of quality for the ages, which cost them a pretty penny. Now, they want you to see those videos, and they’re making their announcement about how to see them here at the Underground Bunker. We’ll let them fill you in on the details, but first, here’s a sneak peek at what is on offer…

 

 
And now here’s Jon and Jim…

IF YOU HAVE BEEN BURNED BY A CULT OR PSEUDO-RELIGION; IF YOU ARE MORE THAN CURIOUS ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN HEALTHY THINKING AND PSEUDO RELIGIONS; AND ESPECIALLY IF YOUR LIFE HAS BEEN HARMED BY THE EXPLOITS OF SCIENTOLOGY, THEN…. THE LONG AWAITED DAY HAS COME.

As many of you know, we hosted the Getting Clear conference in Toronto, Canada June 22-26. The goal of this event was to present accurate information about Scientology, and to provide a forum for learning, listening and healing. Even in our wildest dreams, we did not foresee how successful the conference would be in terms of information and impact. Nora Crest, raised in Scientology and some years out, said that the five day conference was worth five years of therapy.

From the start, we determined to film the sessions for posterity, and now the videos of all 28 sessions are available in High Definition, providing the most thorough visual education and deconstruction of Scientology – or indeed any cult group – ever attempted.

Other conference participants share our enthusiasm:

— Celebrated author and activist, Paulette Cooper, says that Getting Clear is “the most important record of scientology abuses and activities both past and present.”

— Ron Hubbard’s great-grandson, Jamie DeWolf seconds this: “The Getting Clear Toronto Conference will be looked back as the historical D-day in the fight against the criminal cult of Scientology.”

— Eastern Europe’s leading cult expert, Professor Alexander Dvorkin told us: “I can hardly remember anything so magnificent, so massive, and so loaded with information, meaning, and research.”

The conference sessions total almost 27 hours of filming—and the topics (taught by experts, academics and former Scientologists, including high-ranking Sea Org members and senior Hubbard aides) include:

— the true history of L. Ron Hubbard

— the origin and development of Dianetics and Scientology

— the Sea Org, with aides who worked with Hubbard from its creation to his death,

–Scientology’s harassment agency and the infiltration of government agencies

— the Paulette Cooper story and Tony Ortega’s remarkable new book, The Unbreakable Miss Lovely

— the role of celebrities in Scientology

— Hubbard’s ‘religion angle’

— the Operating Thetan levels, where Jesse Prince – former Tech supremo – reveals the truth about OT VIII

— a deconstruction of auditing and training routines, revealing their true intent

— problems faced by second generation Scientologists

— Scientology and health issues – including the prohibition of vital medicines

— the international Scientology scene: reports from France, Italy, Russia and Australia

— Narconon and other front groups

— violence at the top of Scientology

— hard-sell in Scientology

— recovery from Scientology

Christian Szurko, one of England’s leading cult watchers, with almost 40 years’ experience, said “Getting Clear was a milestone in the work to end Scientology’s abusive activities. This video set will be a significant tool for educating people about the reality of Scientology for years to come.”

The sessions are available at Vimeo Pro for either individual or complete set rental for six months.

Sessions range in price from $4 to $10 depending on length and topic. If bought separately the 28 episodes add up to more than $150, but the regular price for the whole set is $120.

However, we want you to join us in celebrating the release of the Getting Clear films, so we are offering an initial sale price of $90 for the whole set. This discount price lasts for one week, until September 26.

The initial sale price is for the whole set only. However, session 1 can be purchased separately at the regular price by going to this designated link on Vimeo Pro.

Individual sessions 2-28 will be released for rental over a four week period beginning on September 21.

We hope to offer a Blu-ray video, in the not too distant future, with a discount for anyone who has rented the online videos.

To take advantage of this time-limited offer to rent the whole set, use the promotion code GC90 at the Vimeo Pro site.

Paul Standring, a former business executive, had this to say about the conference: “The five days at Getting Clear provided the most enriching learning experience of my life. I paid $1200 to my university to take the conference as part of my graduate studies. It was worth every penny. Now I am delighted that people all over the world get to the watch the same amazing sessions I did, and for a whole lot less.”

Scientology has led to pain, confusion, guilt and fear for tens of thousands. It has ruined many people’s lives, destroying families and bankrupting adherents. Getting Clear exposes Ron Hubbard as a scheming fabulist, a multiple drug abuser who convinced his followers to worship him and claimed to be Lucifer and the Antichrist. It clarifies the true, documented history of Scientology and deconstructs the manipulative techniques deliberately used by Hubbard to enthral and entrap believers.

These videos will help anyone who is involved in a totalist cult to reconsider their involvement. The sessions will also help anyone to understand the dynamics of the cultic world.

Click this link to head to Vimeo Pro to access clear, accurate and compassionate teaching that will relieve the suffering caused by cult membership and provide vital information on the world of Scientology.

Remember: the discount set price of $90 (28 sessions, almost 27 hours of video) will only last until September 26.

For the whole set: https://vimeo.com/ondemand/gettingclear
For session 1: https://vimeo.com/ondemand/gettingclear1

Over the summer we watched the entire conference on film and we are amazed and thrilled at the contents and presenters. We are so excited that the films are now released to the world. Enjoy!

— Jon Atack

— Jim Beverley

 
——————–

Mike Rinder explodes L. Ron Hubbard’s niacin myths

Please do not miss Mike Rinder’s blog today. The former Scientology spokesman does the best job we’ve ever seen explaining why one of the central components of Scientology’s “detox” quackery — the massive intake of niacin — is not only unscientific, but downright dangerous.

This is one of the best things we’ve seen on Mike’s blog — and that’s saying something.

 
——————–

Harlem isn’t ready

Thanks to reader Beth who went by today and confirmed that there’s no big ribbon on the upcoming Harlem Ideal Org…

 
SciHarlem2

 
Despite the frenzied activity we’ve seen of furniture being moved in, and the presence of LA staffers in Harlem this week, Scientology is apparently not rushing in a stealth opening like they did in Ojai recently for the new Narconon facility there.

We’ll just have to wait even longer for the big Harlem block party.

 
——————–

BOOK NOTES
3D-Unbreakable

We didn’t get a chance to include photos in our book, so we’ve posted them at a dedicated page. Reader Sookie put together a complete index and we’re hosting it here on the website. Copies of the paperback version of ‘The Unbreakable Miss Lovely’ are on sale at Amazon. The Kindle edition is also available, and shipping instantly.

Tony Ortega’s upcoming appearances (and check out the interactive map to our ongoing tour)…

 
Sept 23: Cleveland, Parma Heights Library, 7pm sponsored by Center for Inquiry – Northeast Ohio

Sept 24: Minneapolis, Grumpy’s Bar & Grill, 2801 Snelling Ave, Roseville, 7 pm, sponsored by Minnesota Atheists

Sept 27: Portland, Friendly House, 1737 NW 26th Ave, 12:45 pm, sponsored by Humanists of Portland

Sept 28: Seattle, Razzi’s Pizzeria, 7 pm, with Seattle Skeptics and Seattle Atheists

Sept 29: Vancouver, BC, Seven Dining Lounge, 7 pm

Oct 23: Sydney, Giant Dwarf Theatre (with Sen. Nick Xenophon)

Oct 25: Melbourne, venue secured (announcement coming later)

Oct 28: Adelaide (with Sen. Nick Xenophon)

Oct 30: Perth

Past dates: Santa Barbara (5/16), Hollywood (5/17), Orange County (5/17), San Diego (5/20), San Francisco (5/22), New York (6/11), Chicago (6/20), Toronto (6/22), Clearwater (6/28), Washington DC (7/12), Hartford (7/14), Denver (7/17), Dallas (7/20), Houston (7/22), San Antonio (7/24), Austin (7/25), Paris (7/29), London (8/4), Boston (8/24), Phoenix (9/15)

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on September 19, 2015 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of LA attorney and former church member Vance Woodward

UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists

GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice

SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer
The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill
The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

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  • Jeb Burton

    I know the bunkerites dont want to hear it, but who pays $90 for a dvd besides a scientologist? I think $20 is the giong rate for most dvd’s. The only comparable thing is paying $110 for a hardcover book. Come on. Sounds like a ripoff to me.

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Now you just sound stupid, Jeb. What movie have you ever bought that is nearly 30 hours long? You obviously have no idea how much money it takes to produce something like this, so just stop….Please.

      • Jeb Burton

        Im just thinking of what PT Barnum and Ron Hubbard said. There is one born every minute. Knock yourself out. Buy 5 copies.

        • salin

          Wrong group. No high pressure for purchase of multiple copies – no do-over reissue require to purchase again.

    • Helen Van Patterson Patton

      There is well over 25 hours of video. That makes it a bargain compared to your average $20 dollar dvd.

    • salin

      20+ 1-2 hour sessions do not fit on a single dvd. Not comparable. Price isn’t that different if you were buying several seasons of a tv series on dvd.

      • Supper Powers

        Removed for wrong placement.

        • salin

          No mug needed, for me. Just reading the live blogging from the event was enough indication of very rich information.

    • daisy

      We are not going to REG you into buying it. That must be a nice change.

      • Frodis73

        Yes, another great point as somebody is not forcing us to buy it. lol

      • Sandy

        Just so you know, Jeb is not a Scientologist. He is a Clearwater resident who is very, very bitter about these asshats taking over his city. But – he has his moods. Just sayin’ …

        • EmmaDaoust

          Thanks, good to know.

          • Sandy

            It IS a weekend evening …. just saying … 😉

    • Yeppir

      I kind of agree with you. (I rented and I’m happy.) But I think these folks can use our help. If you don’t agree don’t buy. And when they sell it for $20 in a year or so you can laugh at us. MMMKAY? I think I sound a little shitty towards you, but right now don’t care.

    • Supper Powers

      It’s about covering the cost of the event. This is the product available that will do that. I suppose they could have thrown in a coffee mug too, but that would have cost an additional $4.50..

    • these videos will be a permanent part of academia and, as I’m sure you know, academic texts aren’t really in it for the money but just to cover their costs and to obtain accreditation.

      Using your logic of costing you’re essentially saying students and others seriously interested in the topic should limit themselves to the ‘cheaper’ texts on the subject. Whilst National Enquirer, In Touch etc are considerably cheaper I doubt you’d actually learn anything about it.

      …. have another shot on me and stop being so grumpy!

      • Jeb Burton

        Then buy 20 copies and donate them to your local University.. You are a true philanthropist. Maybe they will name the Scientolgist Studies wing the Media Lush wing.

        • personally I’d like to see a bronze bust of my avatar

          • Jeb Burton

            That would be nice.Maybe a scholarship named after you.

            • Jimmy3

              I’d love to hear this commencement speech…

              “…And if not for a giant set of balls perched upon Tom Cruise’s forehead, I wouldn’t be speaking here on this lovely afternoon…”

            • … I’ve put a lot of thought into this and “testes” always sounded better to me

            • Jimmy3

              Hah

            • Jeb Burton

              Testes is too academic. I prefer balls. Giant set of balls is something the kids can relate to.

            • Jimmy3

              I’m not even going to attempt to make a joke of that.

            • over time they could become a symbol of good luck and shine forth somewhat like this statue’s appendages

              pic

    • Frodis73

      Ok, between you and Edward below, I’m a bit annoyed at this. $120 is impossible for me do (and trust me, I am very bummed I won’t get to see it), but considering the content, the length and the quality it’s worth it. Not to mention that this will help them make up some of the money they spent putting the whole thing on. I do not think they are running a rip off…argh, just suck it up if you can’t afford it either and deal.

      • Jeb Burton

        You will be able to see it on youtube within a week. Dont worry.

        • scottmercer

          I think you’re on to something there.

          • SarahDB

            I hope you are not advocating piracy. Ripping off other people is ethically wrong in my book.

            • Jeb Burton

              Dont worry. Im not stupid enough to pay $90 for a bunch of exes whining about David Miscavige.

            • Frodis73

              The conference dealt with a whole hell of a lot more “than exes whining about DM”.
              eta-correction

            • Jeb Burton

              Im sure your right. But tell me what else they whined about?.

            • Frodis73

              Well, you can look at the list of who is speaking and the topic they are discussing…they cover LRH’s history, undue influence, second generation sci’s, health issues, celebs, etc. IIRC, Miscavige isn’t even an individual topic.

            • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

              Jeb, come on! I like you. Why are you being a provocative arsehole?

              (This comment fuelled by impending Migraine of Doom.)

            • Sandy

              I do believe our Jeb is kinda into his Saturday night libations. 😉

            • EmmaDaoust

              Aw, tell ya what, Jeb. Buy me dinner and I’ll tell you about the whole entire week. A nice dinner. At a nice restaurant. With martinis to start. And mebbe couple bottles of nice Bordeaux with our steak. How’s that sound.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              If that was the total; content, I wouldn’t pay it either. I can come here and read about people whining about the price of DVDs here for free.

            • Jeb Burton

              Zing.

            • Remind me why are you here?

            • Jeb Burton

              Because I dont walk in lockstep with all the Bunkerites. I think $90 is too much for a lecture series. Sorry you cant deal with that. I know everyone sees things the same here, and when somebody steps out, you dont want to hear it. Thats why im here.

            • Nice try to use a Rebel Button.

            • Jeb Burton

              So you payed your $90. Thats what i thought.

            • Nope. I will buy DVD/BluRay though, even if it’s $90. I am on a budget.

            • A bird in the chimney
            • Jeb Burton

              My favorite rebel. Other than me of course.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Oh, brother.

              ‘Cause the Underground Bunker needs a small, still voice of reason to keep us all aware of what a great, great man LRH actually was…

            • Jeb Burton

              What the hell are you taliking about?

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              N/M

            • sugarplumfairy

              Twit.. If you say something I disagree with, imma tell you.. That’s why I’m here.. Don’t know what you’re trying to start here, but fairy is out of it now.. You can continue whining without me..

            • sugarplumfairy

              One mo’ time..

              We all need to remember the great advice and warning of Michael Leonard Tilse.. OSA loves to infiltrate active, awesome anti-co$ online communities.. They hang out, get real friendly, then try and start fights and cause hard feelings and get people to quit it.. They ruined a great site that way and I’m sorry I can’t remember the name right now..

              ain’t accusin’ nobody, just sayin’..

            • Jeb Burton

              Wow, Im OSA. i was wondering why I had private eyes following my relatives.

            • Dox.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Which Jeb are you?

            • A bird in the chimney

              Tipsy!Jeb.

            • Sandy

              Oh yeah. Jeb NEVER posts this many in a night.

            • sugarplumfairy

              He is funny.. I can’t help but love a wiseass..

      • skiesareblue

        Usual price for a DVD is $20. That’s for a 2 hour video.
        Getting Clear is about 8 hours/day x 5 days = is that 40 hours?
        That would be $800.00

        Seems to me that the Conference Video is a pretty good deal.

        (Repost, originally to Edward Clarke downthread, but I think he mysteriously disappeared.)

        • Jeb Burton

          Ok. You all beat me down. Ill pay my $800 if you let me out of this rabbit hole. I got drunk and decided to post and argue with all you good people, and now I cant stop. Im trying to escape. One day at a time.

          4

          • skiesareblue

            I knew you were a good guy.

          • One day at a time, eh? What’s 4?

            • Jeb Burton

              I think it is Brett Favre’s jersey number, or I just fucked up. But its one of the two.

            • sugarplumfairy

              Tonight you sound like Turtlez..

            • Sandy

              Jeb never posts this much in a row. Hey, Jeb – having a “good” Saturday evening?

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Right there, he sounds like Jimmy. Hmmmmm.

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            The way out… is the way out.

            • Jeb Burton

              I love you Doug. Ok if I call you Doug, Douglas>

          • Jimmy3

            While I don’t necessarily agree with everything you’ve said here tonight, I do appreciate you saying it. Because I believe people going against the grain keeps a community healthy. It keeps people from becoming sheeple. You are a gem, Jeb Burton. You are a Gem Burton.

            • Yeah, okay. Sheeple my ass.

            • Jeb Burton

              I love you DoDo.

            • I am engaged already. Thanks though, Jeb.

            • daisy

              You are engaged, and married ? OH Dodo sigh

            • Do you really.

            • Jimmy3

              Why is your ass a sheeple?

            • I have a nice ass, but it ain’t a sheeple.

            • Jeb Burton

              Are you ovinephobic?

            • Are you on the panel of Writers Of The Future?

            • Jimmy3

              I am so tempted to keep going on about your ass, but I have to go. All I meant is that disagreement is a good thing. Sorry if sheeple offended your sheeplely ass.

              Haaaaahhh love u

            • I am just glad you, Jeb and I are not in the bar right now.

          • sugarplumfairy

            No escape for you , Jeb.. You are stuck with us.. Who would I self-righteously reprimand if you leave? For my sake. You need to stay..

            I disagree with you lots, but i would never want to silence you or anyone.. You definitely have a unique voice.. Tell the truth.. Are you really Lewis Black?

    • I see it now. Looking forward for more of your insights.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        I love this.

    • scottmercer

      I thought somebody would bring that up. But to be fair, Scientology charges a lot more than $90 for books and DVDs…unless you buy a used copy on E-Bay or Amazon, where you can get them for a penny plus shipping costs (true market value).

    • Observer

      So other people spent thousands of dollars to produce stuff that you should get for free or dirt cheap while they eat the loss.

    • A bird in the chimney

      Yawn.

      Not comparable. No one has to buy the entire conference (set). Maybe instead break it down. On average, a movie’s run time is 2hr. So with 27 hours of footage, the $120 price makes it about $9 for a movie (DVD). Which simplifies how the conference is being packaged; you might not even spend $9 to get the panel you choose to buy.

      • I am glad to have friends who are good at math.

        • Jeb Burton

          Ill pay $9. Lock it in.

          • A bird in the chimney

            F5

          • Don’t worry, bro. Keep $9. “Getting Clear” will be just fine.

          • coonellie

            You get what you pay for. If the organizers of the event had your attitude, there wouldn’t even be anything to rent. Well, at least you have one thing in common with LRH – both cheap.

        • A bird in the chimney

          I quadruple-checked then sweated a bit after hitting “Post.” ;D

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Are you actually paying attention? This is not the price of a DVD. This is a price to rent the entire series, covering the full multi-day event.

      The DVD has not been released, and no price has been quoted.

    • sugarplumfairy

      Then you shouldn’t rent it..

    • pluvo

      Jeb, I have payed much more to support whistle blowers who take a stand against the CoS. For me, it’s not about paying for some DVDs but about support for the people who are fighting at the forefront.
      But everybody has to decide this for himself. I was also supporting other causes which have nothing to do with Scn. It’s a personal decision.

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    Anyone know if the mysterious Hollywood Celebrity Centre “Grand Opening” rescheduled from last weekend to tomorrow is still on? Or was that cancelled too?

    https://twitter.com/FVHollywood/status/641747215787028480/photo/1

  • O/T- Pretty epic Comic-Con in Cincinnati today. Bunch of dressed up folks having a great time.

    • Sid

      Was Galaxy Press there?

      • Lol. Not to my knowledge. Not in this part of Galaxy.

        • Sid

          I ask because they go to most of the Comic – cons with the Hubbard fiction books.

          • I know. I didn’t go inside the Convention Center, but saw no signs of them outside.
            Also, it’s Cincinnati.

            • Sid

              I just checked. They are in Salt Lake City this weekend.

  • Intergalactic Walrus
    • MaxSpaceman

      Not at all good

      Clearly clinical depression

      And she’s going to have Scilons all over her ‘case’

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        She has photos posted of a young baby. If she has some kind of postpartum depression, the CO$ is the last place to go to. Remember, Tom Cruise attacked Brooke Shields for that. Very worrisome.

        • Frodis73

          Argh! I didn’t know about they baby. I did tweet her though. Xenu I hope they don’t get there claws into her. Very worrisome indeed.

        • ReallyMGM

          I think the baby might belong to a family member because she comments how she takes care of it more than its parent. I have seen her tweets before, I think. She said grandmother was CoS and was tripping to get her to join several months ago.

    • daisy

      If your at the COS , you are crazy!!!

  • flyonthewall

    SP trivia time! What color was the bike Marc Headley escaped Gold base on?

    • SP color?

    • Frodis73

      It’s a Yamaha TW 200 but I don’t think he mentions the color. 🙂

      • flyonthewall

        that’s good though, that works in my favor 😉

    • Jimmy3

      It was leopard-spotted. On the back plate it said “POUR SOME THETA ON ME”

      • flyonthewall

        I worked really hard to put Def Leppard behind me. Now I’m going to have nightmares about one-armed drummers for a week. Thnx a lot

        • Frodis73

          Snort!

          • flyonthewall

            phew, I worried that was too bad for a sec. Sorry, I’ll put my filter back on

    • skiesareblue

      Don’t know the colour, but wasn’t that a triumphant moment when the police came to ESCORT him into town! That has GOT to be made into a movie.

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      How does Meccano compare to Lego? Do you sneer at Meccano?

    • Vaquera

      Special edition multi-colored and butterflied Ted Stourton model.

      • flyonthewall

        for real?

  • BraveBloggers

    Did anyone see on Mike Rinder’s site about Going Clear allegedly being dropped at a Clearwater movie theater? (Sorry if this was already brought up – I’m in an area with bad internet access and couldn’t look through all the comments.)

    I think it was initially in the Hollywood Reporter so I’m not sure the veracity of the report, but if true….(fill in the blank).

    If it is true – an early commenter provided the Twitter handle for the theater should it prove accurate and anyone wishes to share an opinion with the theater.

    As they have theaters in multiple states, if it’s true, my money will never go to one of their theaters again. Just stating what my personal action would be as a result if accurate. I hope that it isn’t true. I always have hope for, and try to support, any action that aims at educating people.

    • SarahDB

      Yes, several people have posted links to a story about it. Another theater 12 miles away picked it up instead.

      • Jeb Burton

        What theater is that? the Countryside Theater was about 12 miles from downtown. the Capital theater is right in the heart of downtown and I know it is available for movies. Dont know if it is open for rentals, but it could be costly. It has many concerts and is about a 600 seat theater. I would love to see the event at the Capital.

        • SarahDB

          AMC Woodlands in Oldsmar according to one article.

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          Rinder posted that the capitol no longer shows films since its renovation last year.

          • Jeb Burton

            Not true. They occasionally show classic movies In fact every Saturday this month they are showing classic movies. Tonight you can see Beetljuice and then take a haunted tour of the theater. Rinder must of lost of his scientology powers if he doesnt know this.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Ha! Cool, good to know. Thx. Maybe I’ll book the place out for a full day session and can let you watch some of the Getting Clear conference. Now that would be a hoot!

            • Jeb Burton

              Is it going to cost me $90? Maybe if you have an open bar.

      • BraveBloggers

        Yes, I saw that. That alone raises a myriad of questions in my mind.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      We have been discussing this here today. We need to bear in mind that directing anger at the theater does not really serve our purpose. We need to keep our focus on the actual cause of this– the Church of Scientology. We do not know what kind of threats they directed toward the owners of this theater.

      It would be a good idea to encourage the owners of the theater to stand up to the CoS. But they are another victim of the CoS and its toxic policies.

      • What DDD said.

      • BraveBloggers

        I agree, but I also feel that if it is true there is an appropriate way to deal with the alleged threats through productive means. If not, where will it stop? It can be a slippery slope. And informing management that their clientele are interested and concerned with a decision is a regular course of customer service.

        Adding in the potential threats certainly does elevate it to another level and I recognize and give that considerable weight.

        I am NOT advocating screening a movie at the risk of life, limb or property, but I am personally taking the stance that communication with the establishment is a positive step to facilitate two-way communication and customer feedback.

        I do not know the full story, and likely will never know, but I do know that nothing being addressed at all will not help the situation. I believe every voice counts. And even if that voice does nothing but let the management know my thoughts, with the available info, I feel it is better for me personally as opposed to not taking a position either way. I will be the first to issue an apology based on my opinion if merited. But feedback is important for consumers and corporations.

        In the interim communicating and asking questions for whatever clarification is available is my current position.

    • aquaclara

      I posted some thoughts yesterday about Scientology’s long history of harassing business owners in Clearwater. Please understand that the businesses and most residents are very afraid of Scientology. They have good reason to be. The massive numbers of buildings Scientology owns came from somewhere. There was a time when there were real businesses downtown. They don’t exist anymore because Scientology drove them out. I am not around much today or tomorrow (just popping in for a few minutes now) but if people are interested, there may be some ways we can try to help.

      • BraveBloggers

        Yes, I understand that (abstractly as I’m not a Clearwater resident), but I wish for NO establishment to be under pressure in situations like this. It is a lofty wish, but one I hold.

        I guess I feel my way to help is asking the company questions and seeing what dialogue may result, and hoping it results in a positive way — even if that means it isn’t screened, but addressed and discussed for the education of all.

        • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

          I do rather admire your passion.

        • aquaclara

          I’d like to see if we can get this shown in more places, since there is safety in numbers. I’d love to see the police queried as to what they recommend business owners should do when they find themselves in this situation, and then have this published in the Bunker, the minutes of the Clearwater City Commission and the Tampa Bay Times. I’d like businesses to know that Scientology has lost its ability to threaten, but this last is still quite a pipe dream.

          One last wish would be for all the business owners who ended up crushed by the damn cult to be paid back fivefold for their losses, but there are fewer people who remember some of these businesses every day, and far more people deeply imbedded in the cult’s pockets.

    • daisy

      I think that you changing your mind is admirable. I also think the theater is just another in the long line of victims. I phoned and left a nice message about my disappointment in not showing the movie. In the end it is another foot bullet for COS. Some magazines have picked up the story already.

      • BraveBloggers

        I’m certainly not perfect and I’m far from right even 50% of the time. Sometimes a feeling of being correct in your opinion, despite good intentions, results in an flawed or a downright wrong idea. It’s more important to be open and flexible to ideas and concepts then to be right. I’d be a thousand times more wrong if I wasn’t open to call my own words/thoughts, hasty or not, out for being wrong or ill/ poorly tHought out. I TY for the kind words, but I’d like to hope we all have that within us.

        • skiesareblue

          Good insight. (If it were that easy, we’d all be Chris Shelton.)

        • pluvo

          It shows strength of character to reconsider and to correct oneself publicly.

  • beauty for ashes

    I am having a hard time with Vimeo. it acts like they’re not for rent separately. Maybe I’m not trying the right approach by clicking on the title **btw Jesse Prince and Tory Christman*.
    I Let it have all the cookies it wanted, I identified myself.
    It’s still playing dumb. Obviously it just wants me to buy the whole shebang. Damn you vimeo, I won’t yet you beat me!!!!!!

    • Frodis73

      Yes, I noticed that too ’cause I wanted to see how much certain individual panels were. I think they still need to work out some kinks.

      • beauty for ashes

        Okay its not me then fwew!

    • SarahDB

      I have not been able to buy the whole thing yet, the transaction doesn’t go through. I think there is a glitch somewhere on the vimeo site.

      • SarahDB

        Tried two different browsers, clearing history and cookies, etc. grrrrr

        • SarahDB

          Also tried both paypal and credit card…no dice.

      • Beth

        I’ve had the same experience Sarah. Hopefully it will get fixed soon ?

    • ShoopZ

      Individual sessions 2-28 will be released for rental over a four week period beginning on September 21.

      • Frodis73

        Ah ha! That explains it. Need to pay more attention…in my defense it was 7am when I read it. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it. 😉

      • beauty for ashes

        You are too kind Sir/Madam. 🙂 Thank you.

  • EmmaDaoust

    If you purchase the video of the Getting Clear conference, your money is likely not going toward:
    Cases of 18 year Macallan’s
    John Loeb shoes
    Burled oak desk with stainless steel inlay
    Marble flooring
    Twin custom fit Harley bikes with matching leather jackets
    10 thousand feet of red Org-opening ribbon
    Carton of Kools
    Double knife-edged razor wire security fencing
    Gold plated apple crate

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      Top list! “Gold plated apple crate” feels like something Pan could write prose about.

      • SarahDB

        You are up late 😀

        • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

          I’ve been to bed twice 🙂 There’s an excellent band playing in the pub at the end of my street and it’s hot so they have all their windows open so it sounds like they’re playing on my roof. Which I wouldn’t object to but I am on the edge of a bloody migraine.

          Edward Clarke used “bloody” in his post. A disgruntled Brit? Boo.

          • SarahDB

            awwww (((hugs)))

            sending you some quiet new england country crickets chirping from outside my house

          • daisy

            Migraines the worst, I find that ibuprofen works better than Tylenol if you catch it early enough, cool cloth to your head, so sorry they are miserable.

    • LRH smoked Kools. Miscavige smokes Camels, non-filters. Not that it matters.

      • EmmaDaoust

        I’m learning. Hard to keep all this dope straight.

        • MaxSpaceman

          There’s help for that– take The Purif to keep all your dope straight. No! Wait.

          • EmmaDaoust

            🙂

      • daisy

        It matters one is worse than the other for your lungs, non-filters. Of course there is no real danger to his lungs, perhaps he should smoke more. Health according to Dr. LRH.

        • EmmaDaoust

          I dunno, they’re both hell on health. 🙂

          • daisy

            I agree.

  • too knackered to do a clam update so I just updated my off-topic pic section instead https://www.scientologybollocks.com/must-be-amazing-to-see-your-twin-you-never-knew-you-had/

    bonus gif… truly amazing… people didn’t believe it so this is a HQ version

    http://i.imgur.com/BMa0ucG.gifv

    • David Miscavige at the last IAS event?

      • daisy

        No they look like they are having Real fun.

        • Sorry … maybe I’m tapping into his juvenile subconscious interpretation of what those events are like.

    • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

      That is so fucking brilliant, I don’t even care if it’s real. Who is that?!

      • outraged

        that is way cool. Who IS that is right.
        I watched it over and over and over.
        Think it’s real. That guy must have Thetan Overflow.

      • Ben Franklin

        could have been urine, you never know.

        • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

          Heh. Good point.

      • it’s been confirmed as real… a lot of talk when it was first shown but this gif does it justice… can’t remember the full story but heresay is your friend

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    FYI – FXX is airing last week’s Creative Arts Emmy Awards show now.

    • ReallyMGM

      The good part is at the end.

    • daisy

      Not in Canada.

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        🙁

      • skiesareblue

        🙁

    • Vaquera

      Got it. Thanks!
      to add: It’s flying right along. Sweet.

    • Sandy

      Directv is ch 259

    • Kid Kat

      Thanks IW, I’m catchin’ that!

  • MostEthicalPimp

    “Remember that the “con” in “con game” means “confidence.” They win your confidence first, then they go after your money.” Something I read while researching another scam for a friend.

    • richelieu jr

      Close, but not quite: You are absolutely right that the ‘con’ is for confidence and that it is YOURS, not theirs, but the fact is they make YOU confident in yourself, in your own cleverness. YOU bet on 3-Card Monte because you think you were just quick enough to see where he put it, that YOU have the advantage, see?

      Or that you have an opportunity to get ahead, for free money, to be the sharp customer in the exchange. Only, your confidence is false, of course, given to you by a person who wanted to encourage you to make the wrong choice because you felt CONfident int in yourself.

      Best example I have ever heard?

      “What is true is true for you”, LRH.

      From that point on, Scilons make wrong choice after wrong choice, ever-more confident that they know better than us.

  • GrandEclectus

    If there are any former Scientologists who would like to be on a podcast,
    @apostateAwake on Twitter would like to talk with you.
    He’s an ex Jehovah’s Witness who did an ep on Going Clear

    I’m
    @betsy_manning on Twitter. (Osa knows that by now)

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      Hello, Betsy! I’ve been loving your back-and-forth with Monty Python’s biggest fans 🙂

      • GrandEclectus

        Oh, thanks! Glad to hear it. It’s making me feel young again…like back in grade school!

        Weasel boy John Alex Wood was using his silly girlfriends to attack me in their inept way. They follow my every word, and yes, they are blocked, muted, etc.

        Gemma stamps her little niacin flushed feet on everything I post, answers me, then my friends answer her, so I know she’s having a hissy over some dumb thing I’ve said. It’s a Twitter loophole, and sadly, not against the rules.

        Fine.

        This little OSA op has been going on since July. Yes, being indignant about someone’s comments so Co$, and gee, I shouldn’t have my opinions.

        So, yes, it’s annoying, like gnats. But, I’m not going to talk to John Wood’s puppet girls. I unblocked HRM and sent him a barage of tweets. Found out about him trying to trick a UK comedian into going to an event. Taunted him all day. No cursing, nothing like that.

        Picture this: school yard bully with broken, bleeding nose and black eye crying claims victory and toddles off, saying he won the fight. Good stuff.

        The Eric Idle series of tweets calling Wood “that a**hole” and a “pranny” and a “self appointed fan”…”who doesn’t understand Life of Brian”
        Also, “Monty Python is the opposite of” (Scientology)

        Yep. Clear victory for John’s side. LOL

        So, Gemma says “her work is done” and I haven’t heard a peep. They claim I had a meltdown and I’m insane. “No” on the first one. I’ve been lenient on Wood for awhile. I have rarely tweeted to him. Gloves are off.

        Of course, John won’t answer directly. He hides behind his women! What a prize!

        Oh, and now they have to read through all of the bunker posts to find comments like these. And they will. Maybe they’ll learn something!

        Cheers!

        • BetsysFriend

          “I know she’s having a hissy over some dumb thing I’ve said.” Damn straight it was dumb.

          “They claim I had a meltdown and I’m insane. “No” on the first one.” So you admit you are insane then.

    • Jeb Burton

      Oh boy..Jehova witness and a scientologist. What, are you prejudiced against Mormons?

      • Sandy

        You are on a posting roll tonight, Jeb. Never seen it B4. Must have extra words in your fingers this weekend evening

      • GrandEclectus

        Non sequitur. Your facts are uncoordinated.

        I really have it in for Pastafarians.

      • Ex-Christian Scientist

        LOL!

  • JustCallMeMary

    Proud to be a part of the amazing Getting Clear Conference in helping represent the Narconon critics and our efforts to expose and educate others on this dangerous program.

    • skiesareblue

      I have a nice photo of Dr. Beverley and you — can I post it?

      • JustCallMeMary

        Sure, since it’s Jim and me together…. I just hope I don’t look as old as I did in the one of me and Nan, lol! Thanks 🙂

        • skiesareblue

          OK, here it is… f5
          And if you don’t like it, I’ll make it disappear. BUt I think you are beautiful, inside and out. Thank you for all your good work, you are accomplishing miracles. Trois Rivieres is closed.

          • JustCallMeMary

            I love it because you took it 🙂 Thank you for the kind words… however, David Love and some unnamed Canadian Anons get the credit for closing down Trois Rivieres! Myself and others were busy at that time helping take down Narconon of Georgia, etc and helping the lawyers make them for their sins in the Patrick Desmond wrongful death negligence case. But we all work together most of the time… Lots to do and get done.

          • Kay

            Yes you are….beautiful cheekbones and eyes with wisdom behind them. 🙂

        • Vaquera

          The pic of you and Nan together is pure joy. xo

          • JustCallMeMary

            It is!! I am just being selfish… I have been having a hard time in recent years seeing myself in photos. Besides the usual fact of getting older, the years of stress, illness and having my kids late in life have taken a toll. I am almost unrecognizable by those who knew me when I was in Scientology. Oh well… I ‘ll get past all that, especially once I see the conference video on Narconon. Thank you, again… You are a dear… <3

            • Kay

              Don’t you just hate that? In my own brain I think I still look like I did at 30, then when I see myself just when I don’t anticipate it (like on grocery store security cameras, other peoples photos of me, or even myself in the mirror after being up late) I just think..naaaahhhh this can’t be real. Dangit. I just tell myself that hopefully my innards are getting more beautiful. Also, EVERYONE ages…..I don’t know why people (including myself) think that’s not going to happen. My favorite Hollywood story was one told by the actress Jamie Curtis, who had just gone to an A list event with her husband that was attended by all of the gorgeous women of Hollywood. Her husband was staring at someone at dinner, and she was sort of perturbed and asked him what he was doing. He said “staring at Jessica Tandy…she is by far the most beautiful woman here.”

            • JustCallMeMary

              Yes!! You nailed it! PS: Thanks for the Jamie Curtis story! That is a classic 😀

            • Kay

              🙂

            • richelieu jr

              I once went to a H’Wood ‘do, and I was with my long-time GF, an Ex-Miss Colorado, so quite beautiful (if that’s your sort of thing), but more importantly a really sharp wit, and she said something that still makes me smile every time I think about it. We arrived, looked around at the beautiful people and she said,

              “You know, being a beautiful woman in LA is like being a mechanic in Detroit.”

            • daisy

              You have no reason to have a hard time looking at yourself. You look like a perfectly lovely middle aged woman. Bonus for being smart and beautiful.

            • JustCallMeMary

              ((HUGGS)) daisy! ( blushing) It made my day to be thought of as ‘middle aged’ 😀 I’m over 60 – the defining year to enter the category of ‘old age’ but I don’t feel it.

            • JustCallMeMary

              I thought my reply went through but apparently not… Thank you and ((HUGGS)) to you, daisy! It made my day to be thought of as middle aged, however I am past that bracket now. All the more reason to accept things as they are and carry on. Thanks to you and the others for the kindness and care. <3

  • bet you’ve never heard a ‘Hotel California version like this!…. amazing… they even do the guital solos at the 4’:20″ mark

    https://youtu.be/fW1dUnBhwL8

    • Sandy

      whoa

    • Kestrel

      Did he say, “420”?

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Quick, somebody call Kim O’Brien.

      • Jeb Burton

        Its 420 somewhere. That was pretty cool. Are they from Cuba? Gotta go now and watch Bama and Ole Miss. Thats American football for you Limeys.

        • ReallyMGM

          Hotty Toddy

        • Yeppir

          Its 420 here. And that was cool. You can check out anytime you like… But you can never leave.

          Ohai clams. Yes. That’s you.

    • PerpetualOutflow

      Wow, this is awesome–thanks for sharing!

  • Frodis73

    Does anybody know if they have plans to release the “Getting Clear” conference on an actual dvd or in a way that we can actually own a copy vs rental only. This is something that is definitely a keeper.

    • ShoopZ

      “We hope to offer a Blu-ray video, in the not too distant future, with a discount for anyone who has rented the online videos.”

      I know I know…7 am. 😉

      • Frodis73

        Lol. I even skimmed the damn thing again before I asked my question. D’oh! It was a blonde moment.

    • SarahDB

      It says above there are plans for a blu-ray video.

  • SarahDB

    Very much looking forward to watching the videos as soon as I can get Vimeo to cooperate and take my $! Meanwhile, join me in whacking some clammy scammy ads over on CraigsList, you could save an innocent someone enticed in by such ads titled, “Are toxins ruining your life?” or “Restoring Personal Values and Integrity” (as if!). https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-Kvg78kCcvo5gL7UfPcmhmbsagTNtdj0y2LAiHVFrCU/pubhtml

    The heart above could use some more Bunker love as well.

    and now…

    • Kay

      mmmm….purple flowers my fave. 🙂

      • skiesareblue

        Speaking of purple flowers, I see you have a new avi! Very cool. Did you hear about the flack on the View about the bitchy nurse outfit comments? Two big advertisers pulled out of the show. Somebody has your back! 🙂

        • Kay

          I’m glad you like my avi. No I didn’t hear about the flak on the view…how interesting !! That feels really good to know big advertisers care enough to make a statement about that…wow! Thanks for letting me know.

          • Kay

            P.S. I’m going to google that now to get all the details

        • Kay

          Holy cow….I just googled the View fracas again…now they are up to three major advertisers pulling out. This makes me ecstatic.

          • Kay

            Actually, its FIVE now !!

          • skiesareblue

            The show has been on a death watch since crazy Elizabeth left. Nobody to scream at anymore, it got so dull I stopped watching.

            • Kay

              I agree…I used to watch it on my days off, and I just don’t watch it anymore at all. That comment about “nurses wearing doctor’s stethescopes around their necks” as if that was a silly fashion affectation on the part of the nurses was the most offensive to me of all the stupid comments they made. Nurses have to wear and use a stethescope multiple times a shift to assess lung sounds, cardiac function, bowel status, etc. If they didn’t do that, patients would die. I’m proud of those sponsors for pulling out.

            • skiesareblue

              And do you remember the Barbara Walters comment about how Scientology was “doing good things with education”. Jenna Miscavige Hill responded immediately, and strongly. I felt so proud of Jenna for taking on Barbara Walters.

            • Kay

              Yes, that was wonderful !! Not many people have had the guts to take on Barbara Walters.

  • salin

    Was looking for something else, when I stumbled across an old favorite song. Wanted to share it – in the hopes that the increased awareness through the Conference, through The Movie (and its awards), through Tony’s book, this blog, and fora like Operation Clambake and others – that more people don’t need to get out, and more people in get out – and find redemption (healing). Well – he has been gone so long we often don’t get a dose of Bob Marley Live (Redemption song)

    https://youtu.be/cHh1NIfkwHE

    • richelieu jr

      Ah… Makes me feel like I’m still in Student Housing…

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    Cardone tweeting out about the Purif (link goes to CO$ “WHAT IS THE PURIFICATION PROGRAM?” page). I wonder what his cut is for every sign-up.
    https://twitter.com/GrantCardone/status/645377524063707136

    • Observer

      Never take medical advice from a ham hock.

      • daisy

        Never take medical advice from a SCIENTOLOGIST, any scientologist.

        • Intergalactic Walrus

          This is ironic… sounds like it could be an ad for the Purif
          https://twitter.com/GrantCardone/status/645382620952567808

          • daisy

            Too easy, even I have standards.

            • Scientology spelling . . .

            • Kay

              Yeah I was just thinking that…..

            • daisy

              Huh ?

            • Kay

              “Your instead of you’re” He makes a lot of mistakes like that. (as does Kirstie Alley in her tweets) When he speaks out loud (like he did in that ridiculous swimming pool video) he also makes a lot of word usage and grammatical errors.

            • daisy

              I was busy coming up with smart ass replies to his nonsense, ( realizing it wasn’t worth the effort) to notice his other stupidity.

            • Kay

              LOL !!!!

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        Sounds like he had a rough week. Hehe…
        https://twitter.com/GrantCardone/status/645346721078317056

        • daisy

          Twitting scientologists are playing for our team, to stupid to realize it. Keep twitting twits.

          • Madison KinSmed

            Hah! “Twitting twits”! Love it, Daisy!

        • salin

          Ya, we’ve read your heinous/brutal disconnect letter to an aging, ill long time adherent/supporter of Co$, and the following isolation that he experienced as a result. So the magnanimous turn the other cheek act, is read for what it is – posteriorly cheeky.

        • Kay

          Hey, he likes us !! He really likes us !!! NOT

        • Observer

          That is hilarious!

        • Jimmy3

          LOVE YOU, GRANT!

        • daisy

          You are welcome. I will help you next week too.

      • chukicita

        That’s Dr. Hamhock to you and me.

        • Kay

          LOL

      • richelieu jr

        Medical/Religious/Financial Advice from Ham Hock= Future on Ice, In Hock to the Ham.

  • outraged

    The photo empty of people with the Scientology Signet on the old brick is depressingly familiar.
    No one wins here – it’s all lose/lose. This is how Scientology rolls.

  • Cars

    The story about Cobb Theatre cancelling Going Clear is slowly seeping through the internet. I ended up on some obscure “entertainment” (not sure what to call it) site after spotting a Miscavige shop in a tweet and following the link. Imagine my surprise when I saw this synopsis of CoS’s history of criminal and unethical behaviour, as listed by Maxine Page, the author of the piece. I thought it unusual for an entertainment writer to be so well informed.

    Excerpt from http://popdust.com/2015/09/19/scientology-bullying-intimidation-cinema-going-clear/:

    I mean, for a supposed religious organization they sure rack up a shit ton of “unfounded” negative stories and allegations—ranging from waging hate campaigns against former members and those who dare to displease them in some way, shape or form; imprisoning people against their will; forcibly isolating mentally ill church members and preventing them from getting psychological treatment and medications; manipulation and brain washing; forcing church members to sever all contact with any family or friends who criticize the faith; misappropriating church member’s donations by using the money to provide special facilities and services to high profile celebrities; forcing low level church members to engage in physically taxing manual labour for ridiculously long hours with no financial compensation; using sensitive personal information gathered during “auditing” sessions to blackmail members who try to leave the church; medical neglect leading to the death of at least three patients in their Narcanon rehab centers; internet censorship and fraud; harassment, bullying and intimidation; sending anonymous smear letters to the families, friends and neighbors of journalists who write disparaging articles on Scientology; psychological manipulation of church members; phone tapping and spying; making false accusations to the FBI of criminal acts supposedly committed by church detractors; stealing medical records; plotting to get Scientology dissenters sectioned in mental hospitals or incarcerated in jail; wire tapping, infiltration and theft of government documents and filing multitudes of spurious lawsuits against detractors with the aim of financially ruining and wearing them down.

    • Vaquera

      Thanks, Cars. Great find. The list is rightly exhaustive.
      I remember when you were just starting to tweet and now look at you chasing down leads. Bravo!

      • Cars

        Shhh… I don’t tweet. I don’t even have an account!

        I also thought the list would be useful as a guide when we need to quickly write up comments, rebuttals, emails, etc., while engaged in online activism. If challenged, finding supporting dox would take a while to hunt down but doable. First resource, of course, to check would be this blog, Village Voice, and anything else Tony has written about Scientology.

        • Vaquera

          My bad. Well then who the heck am I thinking of? Anyway, great job on the rabbit hole.

        • skiesareblue

          Great idea! I’m going back there for a little Copy/Paste action.

    • salin

      Creepy. Exhaustive list of extreme problems trailing Co$ in your excerpt. The article appears to be from today. But the link, at least for me, leads to a “404 error: This page does not exist” type message. Dang fast to disappear a page.

      • Cars

        I’m re-copyinh the URL and pasting it again here – http://popdust.com/2015/09/19/scientology-bullying-intimidation-cinema-going-clear/#slide1 Maybe this will work better for you.

        • Vaquera

          Hey Cars, I’m having the same problem. Since people are having a tough time pulling it up, take a screen shot in case it disappears.

          • Cars

            Sorry, I can’t. I tried but I’m on a brand spanking new ‘puter and OS, with no extensions or apps yet, and I can’t even figure out how to do this type of screenshot with shortcut keys. Duh!

            Best I can do is post Maxine Page’s tweet here for future reference should the story disappear or change. We can always contact her if that happens.

            https://twitter.com/maxinepage/status/645414204732801024

            • skiesareblue

              Command/Shift/4 ?

            • Cars

              Thanks. Good to know. Yes, that works… sort of. However, I can’t scroll and grab the whole article like I used to with my other machine. It was loaded with all sorts of magical apps and wonderful tools and mysterious shortcuts… all gone. I need to find some of those again, but for this different OS.

            • skiesareblue

              I just updated about 30 minutes ago. From Lion to Yosemite. Wow, where am I?

            • Cars

              I don’t mean to laugh, but sorry, I did. Only because I can so-o-o-o empathize. I feel so very lost myself right now. I feel like I’ve just come out of a hermit cave and someone handed me my first laptop, without further instructions. I can’t get over how fast the technology has changed, especially in toggling from one platform to the other and then back again. Yikes, I hope I never have to do that again!

              Although I must admit, I also find it exciting.

            • skiesareblue

              me too. 🙂

            • There are some excellent (and mostly free) screenshot applications out there. I recommend:

              Windows: Greenshot
              Mac: Snagit
              Linux : Shutter

            • salin

              That photo of DM always looks spooky, but with graphics in this pics – the contrast makes him look much more (appropriately) sinister.

        • salin

          That did the trick. Loved the tone of the article – reminded me of my impressions in my youth of the dishing it out tone of Rona Barret. But, oh so much better, because despite the tone – the dishes are easily found to be documented elsewhere if one is interested/willing to follow the many directions that the column points to. Thank you for finding and posting this.

        • Vaquera

          Oh, now your second link works. Thanks, babe.

          • skiesareblue

            What’s the deal with Brad Pitt?

            • ReallyMGM

              Brad used to date Juliette Lewis, I think, early in his career. He might have taken a class or two then.

            • daisy

              That is correct. He is not a current scientologist , so I can still think he is dreamy. He also said a while back that he did not like working with TC. He found him phony I am not sure if that last bit is verifiable but I like to think it is.

            • richelieu jr

              Yes, this is a bout it, as I understand it.

              I know (told by first-hand source) that she brought him into the CC a ‘couple of times’ and ‘tried to get him to take some courses’… He …”might have taken the comm course, dragging his feet, but it is hard to imagine BP has much trouble communicating, really..”

        • Madison KinSmed

          My favorite part:
          “Now, here’s the thing….the organization releases similarly themed and worded denials, and engages in vicious take downs of detractors each and every time anyone makes allegations, or dares to speak out against them.” (Maxine Page, PopDust, 9/19/15)

          And, she’s right: @ The Hollywood Reporter article http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/going-clear-dropped-florida-theater-824627?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+thr%2Fnews+%28The+Hollywood+Reporter+-+Top+Stories%29 are two ads for “The Apple doesn’t fall far from the tree” Gibney slam video by Scientology.

      • Frodis73

        It’s still there, I got the 404 too and had to click on “Exclusives” to find it. It’s listed on the right hand side of the page. Disqus comments also.

        • salin

          Great tip.

    • chukicita

      Nice one, Cars. That list is a good start. I’m sure the author had to pare down the unethical fundraising and financial shenanigans (“let us open up this credit card that you can max out on our services”), bullying local and federal governments and elected officials, and that whole tax exemption interpretive dance. Nice to see they included barratry, though. That doesn’t get mentioned enough.

      • Cars

        Yes!

        Thanks for adding to her list. I know there’s more we can add but I’m temporarily gobsmacked at finding this much on a celebrity gossip-type site and can’t think of anything else to add at the moment.

        • Ruby

          Thank you, Cars. I’m glad to see you posting again. 🙂

          • Cars

            Oh, you’re sweet! Thanks, Ruby.

            It’s lovely to come out of the Bunker’s Lurkers Closet again and to be here with you guys. I was never far away.

        • chukicita

          Right? I feel the gobsmack, too.

          It just shows you can always count on Scientology, Inc. … to be worse than you think!

    • Kay

      That’s very interesting, particularly from a fairly obscure source. Just shows how the internet has been the death knell for Scientology controlling their information.

      • Cars

        And Twitter is accelerating the pace! I found the link in a tweet gosh knows where, written by someone I never heard of, and followed it out of idle curiosity. And now, it’s landed here – in less than 2 hours. The original story was posted tonight at 9:41 pm.

        • Kay

          Wow that’s impressive.

  • Ben Franklin

    Does anyone know much about this Cult? Very sad story indeed.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7AcDdfPP-k

  • MaxSpaceman

    From an idea by L. Wrong posted 12 hours ago.

    ” I’m All MEST Up ” sung to “I’m All Shook Up” by Otis Blackwell & Presley.

    A well’a Thetan’s gone bad’a
    Inside’a my knee
    I’m itchin’ like a man’a in a fuzzy tree
    Self-auditing like crazy, am wild as a bug
    I’m in dutch
    I’m all MEST up
    Mm mm mm, mn, yay, yay, yay

    Well, my clusters are fussin’ my BTs are too
    I’m auditing like crazy, they jes’ sayin’ F-you
    Who do you think of when you have such luck?
    I’m in dutch
    I’m all MEST up
    Mm mm mm, mn, yay, yay, yay

    Well, please don’t ask me what’sa on my mind
    A Body Thetan ravin’ with a wailin’ whine
    Hey! Get off me dude! You a pain in the neck
    The next I know, I’m being Sec-Checked!

    I asked, Who are you? “I’m me” ‘s what I got
    Its ‘tude is like a volcano when it’s hot
    Too bad I can’t say, Boy- your life really sucks
    I’m in dutch
    I’m all MEST up
    Mm mm mm, mn, yay, yay, yay

    My tongue gets tied when I try to speak
    My insides shake like a leaf on a tree
    There’s only one cure for this body of mine
    See those BTs blown in the nick of time

    A well’a Thetan’s gone bad’a
    Inside’a my knee
    I’m itchin’ like a man’a in a fuzzy tree
    Self-auditing like crazy, am wild as a bug
    I’m in dutch
    I’m all MEST up
    Mm mm mm, mn, yay, yay, yay

    Mm mm mm, mm, yay, yay
    I’m all MEST up

    • daisy

      Good job, so much talent. It is also fun too!! Also impressed by the use of the old dutch for trouble.

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Don’t forget me when the phat royalty check comes, OK?

  • Jimmy3

    Okay, I admit it: every time you see someone acting suspiciously on the Bunker, that is me on a sock puppet account. Now leave me alone. Thank you.

    • Vaquera

      Do you feel better now that you’ve let it out?

      • Jimmy3

        Talking to yourself again?

        • Vaquera

          Don’t knock it.

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          We know you like to sometimes. 😉

          • Jimmy3

            Never have, actually. But I do speak to my own buttplug from time to time. We act out short plays together.

            • daisy

              Do you need someone to run lines with you?

            • Kay

              OM gosh…that was funny Daisy

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Ahem…just what kind of line running are you speaking of?

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              That’s very sweet. What’s its name?

            • Jimmy3

              I named him after you. His name is Little Wrong Hubturd.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Awwww, junior! My boy!

            • Jimmy3

              His little face lit up when I read that to him. But I think it might’ve just been the LED telling me his battery is dying.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Jimmy, you’re not right. But that’s what makes you oh so right. Weird, isn’t it?

            • Jimmy3

              Love you too, L. Wrong, Sr.

            • Vaquera

              check email when you have a moment.

            • Kay

              Thats a great description of our J3…and most great comedians come to think of it.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Snort!

    • Observer

      I didn’t get the surprise/suspicion. That was classic JB.

      • Jimmy3

        Right?

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        It was certainly classic Jeb, but there were a few lines that sounded like classic Jimmy. It was almost too funny to be Jeb.

        • Observer

          I’ve seen Jeb be hilarious a couple of times. It’s a pity that’s not his default rather than the usual judgmentalism/whining.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        I just realized how late you’re here. Much caffeine tonight?

        • Observer

          No, just letting my inner night owl stay up late. I won’t last much longer though.

          • Jimmy3

            Alabama is getting their asses kicked by Ole Miss. Stay up and enjoy the show!

            • ReallyMGM

              Switching back and forth to Emmys. Great game!

            • Vaquera

              I loathe them with equal passion.

            • Jimmy3

              And USC lost, too! This has been a great day of CF . And Ohio State kicked the shit out of Northern Illinois! *cough*

            • flyonthewall

              I can talk sports too. Uhh rebound? Free throw..foul..that’s all I got

            • Jimmy3

              Good job. Good effort.

            • flyonthewall

              thnx coach

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              Maybe you ought to stick with the cheer squad.

            • flyonthewall

              no complaints here, cheerleaders love scientology obsessed lego nerds. No way I can strike out in that crowd

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              You’re a shoe-in. Go git em, tiger!

            • Jimmy3

              You know what, fly? You’d be one of my favorite people here if you weren’t just another pawn in my sock army.

            • flyonthewall

              yeah I don’t get that, I’ve never got the impression you were a puppet master

            • Jimmy3

              I have posted under different accounts. Each time was either a joke, a silly meme or a parody. I never legitimately pretended to be someone else and I never carried on legitimate conversations with anyone. The only exception is that Jon Atack character I made up.

            • flyonthewall

              yup, same here. Use 1x maybe 2x as an obvious joke then throw away. Just don’t do anything cute like change your name to jimmy3 2.0 then piss off a psychotic troll and you should be fine

              You made an Atak sock!? Nu-uh, that would be hilarious

            • Vaquera

              Nebraska overtime loss kicked me in the gut.

            • Ex-Christian Scientist

              Go UCLA!

            • Ex-Christian Scientist

              Not that I have anything against BYU! 😉

            • Ex-Christian Scientist

              YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY UCLA!!!!!! 😀

            • ReallyMGM

              My favorite game of the year.

            • ReallyMGM

              I guess the Bama students won’t get to rip the goalposts down and march them through Tuscaloosa tonight. #HT

            • PlanetJ

              HYDRA!!!! 😀

            • Jimmy3

              Bama just scored again I swear I need to keep my mouth shut. I jinx everything.

            • Vaquera

              Bam.

            • PlanetJ

              HOTTY TODDY!!!! Back to back Bama wins! I’n so excited!!!!

            • ReallyMGM

              HOTTY TODDY!!!

            • PlanetJ

              HOTTY TODDY! I’m still shaking!!

            • Jimmy3

              That got a little sketchy there at the end… I thought they were gonna blow it. I knew they were gonna blow it. But great result. Love it.

            • PlanetJ

              Ole Miss just loves to keep heir fans in a constant state of almost having heart attacks…This is normal for us..lol! Go glad we pulled through tho!

            • Jimmy3

              I’m not even a Rebel. I’m just sick of Bama. Fuck Nick Saban. Thinks he walks on water.

            • PlanetJ

              Well not tonight! I think his check must have bounced that he gives to the refs every year..we all know when we go to Tuscaloosa,we aren’t just playing against the Tide..we are usually up against the refs too.

            • ReallyMGM

              There was a picture of a ref floating around the internets tonight of a ref wearing a Bama cap.

            • PlanetJ

              Saban has always had them in his pocket..He must have pissed a ref off or something..lol

            • ReallyMGM

              Great CF day. I have been in front of tv or watching on iPad all day. Glad it is over.

            • PlanetJ

              Me too! It’s been a long day for Rebel fans.

            • ReallyMGM

              Memphis beat Bowling Green this afternoon. Quarterback battle. It was a great game to watch too.

            • PlanetJ

              That’s what the hubby said..I didn’t get to watch that one.

            • ReallyMGM

              Worth watching for the trick play in the fourth quarter.

            • PlanetJ

              I’ll have to watch it on youtube when it comes out. I’m proud of both of them,today!

          • flyonthewall

            you are getting sleepy. you are getting very sleepy. (f5)

            • flyonthewall

              oh man that’s making me sleepy now. Ahh blast it my plan has backfir…zzzz…zzzzz…zzzz

            • Juicer77

              Don’t DO that – I have jet lag!! LOL

    • Kay

      I like fantasizing that every potential sock puppet is you……I have no life.

    • salin

      Can I just ask you to stop using the old athletic “tube socks” – so unbecoming. Thank you.

      • Jimmy3

        I can try, but it’s been a while. I’ve gotten crusty. Errr. Rusty.

        • salin

          Better than rusty than musty. Though musty and crusty… would be a good signal that you need abandon the 70s-early 80s tube socks.

  • Vaquera

    If you’re hunting around for something to listen to, here is an interview of Jamie DeWolf talking about Scientology from this past April. Start at 8:10.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtKsOBRoHW8

  • j238

    Saw an Scientology recruiter today, for the first time in many years. Interestingly, at Tony’s subway stop.

    • salin

      Were they busy per the Co$ party line of how fast they are growing, or somewhat underwhelmed by the volume of public “flowing in” in response to the Ideal Org theory – that opening ideal orgs would open the flood gates to new public coming in from everywhere?

  • Madison KinSmed

    Looks like the usual night shift, but missing some regulars? Hope everyone is ok and just living life.

    Don’t forget to click the heart!

  • ReallyMGM

    If anyone is interested in the CA Emmys, first award for Going Clear should be up in a few minutes. If they are following this award list I am looking at.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      No access to FXX from my place.

      • ReallyMGM

        They are out of order, or someone has gone rogue

        • ReallyMGM

          They cammed back and most people have left. And it is up now!

          • ReallyMGM

            Spanky looked incredible!!!

      • Ex-Christian Scientist

        Me, too. No FXX.

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    Has Scientology become so dull and predictable that nothing they do is particularly surprising any more?

    (refresh)

    • Supper Powers

      Yes. And I love how Gibney so nonchalantly tells his followers that those silly kids are up to their ol’ tricks again. It just takes the seriousness out of what they do to others for a second.

    • Steve Bazemore

      Wow, they’re still at it huh? I figured he’d be old news o them by this point, going clear must be doing more damage than I am aware of

      • Steve Bazemore

        Must be th Emmys? Or maybe he thing going on in Clearwater concerning the theater pulling going clear from Being shown?

      • Steve Bazemore

        Not to minimize the damage it has done…

      • Supper Powers

        I suspect it was that Gibney was so unflappable as was HBO. They couldn’t rattle the source so they tried to rattle the audience. Backfire. These people have little ability to adapt or strategize when things go off LRH script. They just don’t know how to assess a situation or when to STFU to minimize the damage.

        • richelieu jr

          Even if they got it,they couldn’t act.

          Remember Hubbard 101: If the result doesn’t match Hubbard’s assured prediction, then then the result is in question, or your own actions.

          So… DO BETTER;;; TRY HARDER..

          BUt abolve al else: DO EXACTLY THE SAME THING.

          — cf Every Single Hubbard Policy Letter, “Rake-Stepping Endlessly Ad Infinitum Ad Nauseum 101”

    • Intergalactic Walrus

      I guess that means Joe Taglieri he has “a pure – even romantic view of the noble profession to which he was called and the punch and prowess to act on it.” What could possibly go wrong? 😉

    • Juicer77

      Oooooo, busted! Delicious!! Note that Mr. Gibney did not say DON’T TALK to this person, just be aware of his connections. Beautifully done.

  • Vaquera
  • Steve Bazemore

    Can’t find the other posts about this, but still no luck here ordering the getting clear confrence 🙁

    • Ex-Christian Scientist

      Been going on here all day long… Hopefully it’s figured out SOON!!!

      • Steve Bazemore

        The more I hear it from others, the more confident I feel it will be. I thought it was just another thing I couldn’t do on my iPad.

  • Supper Powers

    Hey Tony, what does Alison usually have in her glass during interviews? Is that Coke with no ice or black coffee? Can you find out? It’s these important questions that perplex me.

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    Anyone have any idea why Danny Masterson would want to promote this?

    EDIT:
    This is not Danny Masterson, but rather a fan Twitter account. I guess this is about all the “news” they have to retweet about their favorite faded star…

    (refresh)

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    So, is Michael Wilde a dopey Scientology shill, or the dopiest Scientology shill?

    Look at his Tweets just one day apart:

  • Supper Powers

    Looks like they have the kids on the Purif in Columbia.

    Criminal. Practicing medicine without a license.

  • Supper Powers

    This is Rick Ross explaining how Scientology went after him in the 90s. That part of the story starts about 2/3 in. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zjlT3-cSGac

  • scottmercer

    Not sure if anyone posted this. Went on YouTube a couple days ago. Ben Mankiewicz on The Young Turks interviewing Alex Gibney. Talk about Scientology starts at about 21 minutes in, but the whole thing is a good interview. About Gibney’s other works, Steve Jobs and Julian Assange. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1tQYj0YLlo&feature=iv&src_vid=nG9-cQowdfc&annotation_id=annotation_2144907895

  • Edward Clarke

    Let me confirm a few things… I find Scientology fascinating, but I’m not an ex-Scientologist, nor have I done so much as a ‘personality test’. I don’t have an axe to grind with any of the people fighting the good fight.

    BUT… There’s a bit of hypocrisy going on with this video release, the marketing of it, and the defending of it here. Stop right now with the ‘you don’t have to buy it’ defence. If you consider the mere existence of personal choice in a transaction somehow validating the offer itself, then if you think this through for two whole minutes, you will realise you can have no beef with how Scientology is run. None whatsoever.

    Crap selling techniques. Look at the write up they gave themselves. Does it sound OTT? (That’s Over The Top, nothing to do with those pesky thetans). Is it factually wrong? Yes, on both counts. Who describes their own product with the word ‘amazed’? I can only think of one example, Scientologists. And the product has not remotely been released to the world, has it? In a short while, a tiny bit of it *will be made available, rental only, at a high price*. Then there’s all the discounts, and early bird specials as desperate enticements (is there *any* justification for changing the price at a set point in time for a product that isn’t being sold as manufactured?) No.

    In the current climate – no one pays $20 for a DVD these days, and box sets are highly discounted – this is extortionately priced. And you get nothing physical either, nor do you get to *keep* the non-physical product.

    If you insist on defending this – by all means – ask yourself first, is this a Scientology defence? Are you saying you don’t have to buy, or comparing it like for like to a different physical product sold as a single unit in a non rental basis?

    This just feels like pure Scientology to me. Waaaay overpriced, self praising through the roof, factually inaccurate, over-cooked sales ploys and best of all… a year from now you will have NOTHING to show for it.

    And as such, I think this is a very bad moment for the anti-Scientology movement.

    • Juicer77

      Edward, you are correct to look at things with a critical eye. It is good to be skeptical about big claims. I personally many not be able to afford all of the videos right now but at least I have the option of purchasing only a few lectures, or none at all if I choose. As for having nothing to show for it, recording personal experiences in any field of life is useful for review and close examination and learning. Are these things backed up by fact? Are they not? How much is personal opinion? Should I believe what they are saying? You seem quite adamant in your opinion, and that is fine, but I’ll make you a deal – I will look at any materials, these videos and the Bunker included, and make my own opinion if you will. I hope you are able to set aside your convictions about these points long enough to consider – just consider – other viewpoints. Thank you for commenting. I am always glad to see a variety of opinions in the Bunker.

      • Edward Clarke

        Juicer77… like I said, by all means point to the other side, but take note if you end up using a defence that would make COB proud. ‘Recording personal experiences in any field of life is useful for review and close examination and learning’… this is what Scientology are selling. Hell, you’ve just described an auditor.

        Also, you said that at least you have ‘the option of purchasing only a few lectures’. Read the ‘amazed’ promotional material again. You absolutely DO NOT have this option. If you believe you have, point me in the right direction.

        • Juicer77

          Your points are understood. However, just because the Co$ uses something does not mean it’s invalid. It’s HOW it’s used. For example, talk therapy is very useful. Unfortunately in the Co$ it’s used coercively and for control/blackmail purposes, not confidentially and ethically to let people work through issues on their own terms. I will look into ordering single lectures, I have not ordered any yet and have been busy with real life stuff. If I see that it can’t be done and they require the whole package, I will let you know..

          • Edward Clarke

            It can be done individually. But you can’t ‘purchase’ them, you can only rent them. And yet they are hoping to sell Blurays!! This is a con, as far as I’m concerned.

            • Juicer77

              You’re entitled to your opinion. I’ve rented shows and audiobooks through Verizon Fios (and other media sources) vs. purchasing them. At least they’ve given us options to choose from.

            • Edward Clarke

              What is your point? You have NOT been given options here, not yet. And if they follow the model, they are selling these video files for $450.

            • Baby

              Have you watched Going Clear?

            • hansje brinker

              Love you!

            • Baby

              Oh hansje.. love you too.. I need another HOOKAH..

            • hansje brinker

              haha, thank god there is a new post!

            • Edward Clarke

              Yes, I have. Loved it.

            • Edward Clarke

              I have it on my iPad, so can either answer any Qs from memory, or go back and watch parts to prove I have the doc infront of me. I like Alex Gibney’s docs.

            • Juicer77

              I’ve paid more for The Great Courses classes, and didn’t necessarily buy into the information they were sharing. I think you’re really down on them — perhaps you feel this information should be freely shared and not charged for? I’ve done some video production work, it’s a really time consuming and expensive process, from equipment to setup to filming to post-production editing and much more. I can’t blame them for trying to recoup some of the costs they’ve already paid out. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.

            • Edward Clarke

              No, I don’t think they should be free (or rather, that is the choice of the organisers). My issues boil down to two things…
              1. Why is he not ‘selling’ them, just renting them, but with the prospect of a later sale. I would like someone involved to answer that. I can only think of two possibilities and they aint pretty.
              2. How can you sell ANYTHING in this manner? It might look like water off a duck’s back to an ex scientologist – given that it promises to save you years of therapy, thousands of pounds in hard cash, and talks about itself like your major life event. But it looks like just utterly silly, ridiculous garbage to someone like me. THE LONG AWAITED DAY HAS COME. Has it? Really? It hasn’t even by their own standards, it’s being streamed bit by bit for a month. The standards for the advert are no higher than for those that claim ‘get an iPad for a dollar using this simple trick,’ etc. I expected better.

            • Juicer77

              Understood.

            • Susan_Qbird_Poche

              Bottom line Mr. Clarke: You don’t have to buy it.

            • Edward Clarke

              We haven’t been told the bottom line Susan.

              Your version of a bottom line excuses many of Scientology’s ills. You don’t have to pay for a new Org. You don’t have to disconnect from Aunt Lydia, etc.

              If not intending to buy it forbids me from criticising it, then Scientology has carte Blanche.

              Anyway, let’s say I *do* want to buy it? How much will it cost me? You see what I did there?

              What *is* the bottom line, Susan? If it’s $450, why doesn’t he just say so, instead of asking for $150 to rent it in the meantime. I think there *should* be a bottom line, and it should have been announced right away. Otherwise the author of Let Me Sell You A Piece of Blue Sky is only allowing you to rent videos online (no physical product) for $150, when he could sell them right now. But if he did, he would have to state an honest price, in full, right now. It appears he doesn’t want to do that. Why not?

            • Susan_Qbird_Poche

              *Do* you want to buy it rather than rent it Mr. Clarke? When it becomes available, will you buy it?

            • Edward Clarke

              Erm, the honest answer is now No. If it had been sold at what I consider a reasonable price (not definitively reasonable, but reasonable for me), I would have considered it. And that price would have been around what you can rent it for.
              But I would have to consider the way it had been sold (rental only) and the sales pitch (saving you thousands, years of therapy, etc), and decide it wasn’t something I would want to endorse with my cash.

            • Susan_Qbird_Poche

              Thanks for the simple honest answer, Ed.

    • 0tessa

      I rather think your comment is a bit OTT.
      But I defend your right to express it …

    • scottmercer

      They are engaged in marketing and promotion here, yes. What they aren’t engaged in is strong arming other people into opening new credit card accounts which they can then squeeze for thousands of dollars. That’s the Scientology way. Comparing their tactics to Scientology tactics is laughable.

    • MostEthicalPimp

      Here’s idea why don’t you offer to pay the production costs if Jon and James offer to give it away for free? I’m sure they have receipts. Oh, wait your just an OSA Troll.

      • Edward Clarke

        They don’t have to give it away for free, no. But nor should they be punting it at these prices as a rental, nor advertising it in such a dubious fashion. I’m sure I’ll break this down again in a response to someone else, so in the meantime…

        …several responses to me have assumed I’m a troll, or part of Scientology. I’ve just Googled OSA by the way. So let me be clear, this is the first time I’ve posted, although I’ve been following the Bunker for a few years now. I find Scientology and Religious belief fascinating. No other reason. I recently went to the London event for Unbreakable, really enjoyed it, briefly met Tony, got my book signed, et cetera. He’s fighting the good fight, and I find his arguments and his site superb.

        I have nothing to offer in the comments section, until, it seems, now since what I find a horrific piece of selling has seemingly gone otherwise unchecked.

        But anyway, am I a Scientology infiltrator? I’m not sure if it works like Christianity and by denouncing it, I prove my legitimacy, but here goes… Scientology is a fiendishly clever attempt to separate people with certain vulnerabilities from their cash. Their leader, David Miscavige, is a disgusting little prick who can’t die soon enough as far as I’m concerned. And Tom Cruise should be ashamed of himself, although I retain a soft spot for him as an actor.

        I find the videos of Scientologists beyond funny like the ones from 2006 Tony put up last week. They all look FUCKING NUTS. Having said that, the timing of this with its ridiculous selling strategy, really egging the saving and how helpful it will be as therapy, is unfortunately timed coming so soon after that other video, which was essentially selling the same thing – lectures – from the other side of the coin. And I’m sorry Jon Atack, but your hair colour is just plain boring, and I’m never going to look at your follicles and become hypnotised the way I could with L. Ron’s ginger locks.

        • ScaramouchenFandango

          You say you have been following the bunker for a few years but just googled OSA. I would think OSA to be base bunker terminology.

          • Edward Clarke

            I’d heard of it, but didn’t know exactly what it meant. I come on the bunker, have seen the docs, etc, tried unsuccessfully to get a ticket for next month’s Louis Theroux doc, but I don’t have the entire Scientology framework or all the acronyms in my head. I know the Sea Org from a plain member, but no expert.

            • Edward Clarke

              And I don’t even look at the comments normally. Just seeing a new post has 1000 comments puts me off.

            • Baby

              The Bunker ALWAYS has over 1000+ comments. We NEVER run out of things to talk about. Especially when it comes to the dangers involved regarding this cult.

            • Edward Clarke

              Tell me this, do the Scientology infiltrators (and I have no difficulty in believing you have them in the comments section) slag off Scientology, Miscavige, etc, just to appear legitimate? I wouldn’t have thought so, but I don’t know.

              Miscavige is a slug of a human being. When his Facebook page was mentioned on here last week, I left several polite but critical comments, only relating to what had actually been posted. They were all taken down immediately.

            • Baby

              Yes they do. They are trained to lie.. manipulate and deceive.

            • Edward Clarke

              OK, well let me know what I can provide as proof without violating my privacy in any major way.

              All I’ve done is attack one piece of very manipulative and over priced piece of selling. The anti Scientology fight, for me, has been pretty spotless until this. And some may say this is no big deal, but it looks bad to me.

              It can’t be healthy if any criticism of product sales on here has the person ‘declared’ a Scientologist, surely.

            • Baby

              We don’t ask for proof. We are a pretty protective site and it appears that you came on pretty strong attacking.

              If I unjustly accused you I apologize. Not only are the DVD’s important to assist the critics in education..

              but the cost of the conference and making the CDs were costly.

              In my opinion your words could have been more in the way of Richelieu Jr.’s comments.

            • Edward Clarke

              Well, so far no CDs or DVDs exist, per the hard sell.
              I’m someone who DOES pay for videos on Vimeo. People who sell lectures (not relating to this) once in a while, whilst podcasting for free. I am happy to give them the business. I was happy to give Tony business. I have Jon’s book on Kindle. I have John Sweeney’s book on Kindle and in paperback. I have Tony’s book.
              I will buy Going Clear on Bluray when it appears. I will admit (and can be deservedly shunned for this) that I downloaded it online (for free). I wanted to see it, presumed they wanted it to be seen, and it was on Youtube the next day after USA broadcast in HD (I don’t know if it stayed up long, I downloaded it then). And it was pulled from British TV, albeit now re-instated with a broadcast next week I believe. I will watch again then, in interest, to see what disclaimers they have been forced to add.
              Personally, and I could be wrong here, but it can’t hurt to have some negative opinions (backed up) on here that DONT come from a Scientologist. I have found the anti-Scientology movement to be noble almost all of the time.

            • Robert Eckert

              There isn’t anything you can do. Someone whose first post is an attack is an enemy. It’s not “any” criticism that would cause this diagnosis: it’s attacks by people who are not known for anything else.

            • Robert Eckert

              Of course the infiltrators slag of Scientology to appear legitimate, as you know perfectly well.

            • Edward Clarke

              I don’t, actually. As stated, I’m new to the comments section, but not the Bunker. As a non-scientologist, I thought most of the comments would be over my head and life was too short to read through them. In this case, I felt like pointing out that FOR THE FIRST TIME, I have had strong feelings against a Bunker post. Not only did I think it wasn’t being sold correctly right off the bat, and for too much money, the actual selling was utterly ridiculous, and what I would expect of… the congresses (per last week’s videos).
              I’ve said why till I’m blue in the face.
              What would convince you? My closest area of expertise is Christianity. If you want, I will be able to debunk every defence of it in real time right here, with references to what others have said in the last several years. Do Scientologists bother with this? I wouldn’t think so.
              For the record I would LOVE to see a Scientologist in action on these boards claiming to be otherwise, if you can point me in the right direction.

            • Robert Eckert

              “As stated, I’m new to the comments section, but not the Bunker.” But you claimed not to know what the OSA was. That destroyed any remaining possibility that you might be speaking truth.

              “What would convince you?” Nothing, at that point.

            • richelieu jr

              Edward, there is a lexicon of all the confusing Scilon acronyms somewhere on the site– Sorry I’m so busy, or I’d search it out myself for you.

              It is true they can be confusing.

              And even though you have stirred up a firestorm here, if you are a long-term reader, you know it isn’t generally like this, I presume it was your (ill-advised and inaccurate, IMHO comparison to actual Scilon thievery that got people’s backs up).

            • Edward Clarke

              It seems I’m not to be believed, but I’m only a long time a Bunker reader, never the comments. I don’t go near the comments on YouTube either. I didn’t know one thing off the top of my head which is apparently unusual here.

              I’m sure this video presentation is coming from a better place than a Scientology hard sell, but it sure doesn’t read like it to me. Added to which it’s unfortunate that it arrives as rental only, promises a discount for a future upgrade (meaning the total cost might never be announced as one figure), and is very costly. There’s no reason this couldn’t be sold on Vimeo right now, unless of course he’d rather sell it in stages? And this serves only to hide the actual price. It’s not a strategy that looks good at the best of times, but coming from someone best known for writing a book about a guy who sold thin air (over and over), I cracked and finally headed into the comments section.

              I’d love to know what Tony thinks. He seems to be level headed enough to spot something like this. But I’m sure he has bigger fish to fry.

              If anyone is in any doubt about the hard sell, read Jon’s opening paragraph (ALL CAPS) in the movie announcer voice. Then, with that revelation fresh in your head, read the rest of it in any voice you like. Try it as an experiment.

            • richelieu jr

              Clearly you’ve not read my previous posts re/yours, but for now I would simply counsel: Don’t ascribe to bad intentions what an easily be attributed to ignorance/inexperience/stupidity (not in my book, this last, certainly, not with these guys…)

          • Pierrot

            good catch!

            • Edward Clarke

              Actually just assume I am a Scientology infiltrator… that will be more fun for all of us. So either I’ve attacked the selling and promotion of something unreasonably (and bizarrely equated this with my own group, thus attacking them too), my comments can easily be shown as unsound, and that the selling is good and proper. If you can’t prove the latter, it means any kickback to the anti-Scientology movement is suspicious by its very existence. Which means…

        • Baby

          “And I’m sorry Jon Atack, but your hair colour is just plain boring, and
          I’m never going to look at your follicles and become hypnotised the way I
          could with L. Ron’s ginger locks.”
          ………………………………………………….

          First.. You are an Asshole
          2nd… You are a Scientologist

          • Edward Clarke

            Jesus H. Miscavige. Was the intention of that sentence unclear? It was a comical reference to the videos posted in the Bunker last week where testimonials are used to sell lectures (as this is also, amusingly). The highlight of which was how enchanted some female was by the mere colour of L Ron’s hair. Mr Atack, by contrast, has no such strikingly coloured hair.

            And it’s either First, then Second. Or 1st, then 2nd. And I’m an asshole, not an Asshole.

    • romanesco

      I just got through watching an episode of Sherlock Holmes on PBS, and an ad popped up at the end for a box set of all episodes for $199. I looked it up, and the run length is 43 hours. This set is 27 hours in length, so I’d say it’s a pretty fair price. The testimonial is pretty gushy, but I don’t think it’s fake.

      • Edward Clarke

        Well firstly no one in their right mind would have paid the $199 for the Holmes product. Did it claim it was secretly worth thousands, and include gushing testimonials? Did you even consider buying it?

        And was it a rental? On Amazon, the rental to purchase mark up is exactly a further 200%. So under those conditions, these sessions have been priced at $450.

        And why punt it as a rental but claim you are looking into a Bluray? This is unjustifiable. Unless you are intending to milk people to the max. Because the bluray is permanent. Unless of course they have really taken a leaf out of Tom Cruise’s book and got technology off him that will allow the bluray to self destruct in 5 seconds after you’ve watched it.

        This is a cynical Scientology-esque cash grab. And they want to nail you more than once.

        • Bert Allen

          Edward, I had a similar reaction to the sales pitch, but I think you are missing the boat on the Bluray issue. I am fairly certain the Conference was run on a shoestring and the videos are currently in the red. The rental product is all that can be afforded right now. If that generates a profit that money will be reinvested into disc production for sale. This is supposition on my part, but I am confident it is reasonably accurate. With the adequate funding of the commercial products you are comparing this to a for sale disc would already be out.

          • Edward Clarke

            In that case, there is *NOTHING* to stop these being sold right now. What possible excuse is there for it being rental only? I can think of at least two, both of which put Mr Atack under a bad light.

            • Bert Allen

              Because rental streaming uses the current in hand product while production of DVDs requires another cash outlay. From your comments you are clearly intelligent enough to have understood that from my post. This does call into question your status as a potential troll.

            • Edward Clarke

              Bert, you have completely missed the point. What is to stop these being SOLD right now on VIMEO? They don’t have to be rental only. Why are they rental only? This particular point has NOTHING to do with the physical production of DVDs. I mention ‘rental only’ in my response, Bert. Maybe you don’t know you can sell on Vimeo.

            • Baby

              Edward.. Why is everyone missing your point? Do you think it’s you and not us?

            • Edward Clarke

              Question Baby? Do you think Bert missed the point of my post about selling video files online?

            • Baby

              NO

            • Edward Clarke

              OK, see post above. We got to the bottom of it with Bert, hopefully you can now follow along that you know videos can be sold (for keeps) on Vimeo.

            • Bert Allen

              Correct. I have never been a customer of VIMEO. If the streaming video can be purchased then I don’t understand why that option is not available, since ownership of such an extensive collection would be more beneficial than what I understand rental to be.

            • Edward Clarke

              Exactly.

            • Bert Allen

              I am something of a Luddite when it comes to computer/video technology.

            • Baby

              Mr. Atack will never be seen in a bad light.. He is a hero..and historian to the Bunker family.

            • Edward Clarke

              Everyone can be criticised, according to normal society. It’s unhealthy if that isn’t the case.
              Scientology is different. You’re telling me the Bunker is too?

            • Baby

              Sure you can criticize.. but I can also call Bull Shit when I see it..

            • Edward Clarke

              How much is the author of Let Me Sell You A Piece Of Blue Sky selling these videos for, since you call bullshit. Why won’t he say? Why is he asking you to rent for $150 with, most likely, a discount to own later on? Is this a sales technique where you buy one thing for a whole lot of money without ever seeing the total amount written down? If you have any alternative theories, I’m all ears.

            • Baby

              [img]http://www.pic4ever.com/images/2mo5pow.gif

        • richelieu jr

          As a film maker who sells (not much, sadly!) my stuff on VIMEO, I am sadly obliged to add my doubts here.

          Mr Atack has my undying loyalty and admiration, will forever remain personal hero, I regret not being free to be present at SP-Palooza, and I truly hope he more than makes his money back (My friends and relatives are SO SICK of getting A Piece of Blue Sky as gifts!), but I will not be contributing to this venture at this point.

      • richelieu jr

        On Amazon, the highest price I can find for all three series, plus guidebooks is less than 100 dollars… Not sure where misinformation will get this discussion…

        • romanesco
          • richelieu jr

            OK. Point taken.

            Still using the most extreme example possible as proof of ‘business as usual’

            How many here would consider that a ‘normal price’ for three seasons of what was, what— a 4 episode-per seasons series?

            I got al seven of NextGen’s 21-per for $138 on DVD before DVD prices crashed.. I mean c’mon!

            Let’s argue fairly, that’s all.

            • romanesco

              No I don’t think you did take my point. Do you expect me to believe people who watch PBS are too dumb to realize they can get the same product at half the price or less on Amazon?

              The operative principle here is whom you choose to patronize. The people who buy from Atack and his partner believe they are funding something worthwhile.

              Further, in this production, there is no economy of scale whatsoever. It’s a one-off deal without production, market research, and management staff plus established processes having already been in place.

              Sherlock Holmes is a decades-old production with the costs having long since been paid off. By contrast, ‘Getting Clear’ is a brand new one, with no chance of ever reaching anywhere near such a wide audience, and bootstrap funding has to be paid off.

              So it’s actually unfair to compare its finances to any kind of large-scale project by an established group.

            • richelieu jr

              As it happens, this exactly how I make my living and have doe so for years. IF these sorts of prices for ‘rentals’ are necessary, then either there has been a terrible calculation, they were highly over-charged, or they expect their buying public to be vanishingly small, and are testing the waters, unsure if they will be able to sell enough to make printing up BluRays cost-effective.

              If I can help sell a 9-hour documentary on a couple of paragraphs from the New Testament, all talking heads in 17 different languages ‘Corpus Christi’, ‘Apocalypse’, etc– Go check them out) for fraction of that cost, so can they.

              This is simple misjudgement; I do not wish them ill (quite the contrary- Jon Atack is as close to an idol of mine as I have), or presume any ill-will on their parts, but to say this is necessary is ridiculous.

              I cannot believe I am having to even say this, and it bothers me as it comes off as if I am against the existence of these videos. I am merely against the tone and content of your post.

              I got what you said. I not only think you are wrong, I KNOW you are.

              I do this.
              For a living.
              Every day.

            • romanesco

              I didn’t say the pricing is necessary. I meant it’s not unheard of. It’s a business decision they made, and I wouldn’t have any idea how they arrived at it.

            • richelieu jr

              Oh please, nowhere did you say ‘not unheard of’. Of course it’s not, Even the original poster said he’d heard of it before— in the CoS!

              And my response was that he’d gone a bit too far, that is was just regrettably overpriced. That’s when you chimed in.

    • richelieu jr

      I agree only insofar as I find the price for ‘rental’ quite high.

      As for the rest, I would have loved to have been present personally, and those I know who were fortunate enough to have been present speak in equally high terms of the experience.

      It is a gathering unlikely to take place again, on such a scale…

      I am currently following an online course at (REDACTED: An Ivy League Institution) for less, and I get study guides, Syllabus and the right to download the lessons included.

      On the other hand, I don’t think any of us begrudge the organizers the chance to make a bit of their investment back (or turn a healthy profit, should that be possible.)

      That said, i cannot deny my jaw dropped when I saw the pricing.

      I’ll chalk it up to a misjudgement, rather than greed or scamming or some other Hubbardesque rapscallianism…

      Frankly calling something its opposite (or at least the name of its enemy) is Godwinesque “Israelis are Nazis Because_____”-type behaviour…

    • Interested2

      I have to admit the one thing holding me back is the fact I do not own what I buy. If I had physical DVDs then without hesitation before sept deadline, however I want something I can watch at my leisure, take 8 months or a year to listen to, come back to maybe a year later etc. I think that JA and co did an amazing job, and I wish that firstly I had kissed him on the cheek when I met him, and secondly had been in Toronto physically. But as I said, nothing at the end at that price!?

    • MM

      “But you can’t ‘purchase’ them, you can only rent them. And yet they are hoping to sell Blurays!! This is a con, as far as I’m concerned.”
      (quoted from your answer to Juicer77 below)

      It’s exactly the opposite of a ‘con’. They openly tell you beforehand that you have two choices if you want to watch the material: you can a) watch it online via ‘streaming’, OR if you prefer to ‘own’ it as a physical product you can b) buy it on DVD/BluRay later.

      Do you honestly think businesses like, say, HBO are operating a ‘con’? Because that’s what they do if one follows your ‘logic’: They offer their customers the choice to either a) ‘rent’ Game of Thrones (or for that matter, Going Clear) via Pay TV and streaming services like iTunes, OR you can b) buy the stuff on DVD/BluRay later.

      And as far as the pricing is concerned, yes it’s quite expensive. But it is a niche product that presumably has only a small target audience, so common sense dictates it would have to be priced higher than a product that’s targeted towards a mass market. I can’t really see that much of a surprise there, let alone a ‘con’.

      • Edward Clarke

        I was the only one pointing to Bluray as an ‘alternative’. Its just casually mentioned above, although it opens a can of worms. Nor are they promising a bluray will ever appear.
        Why is this not being SOLD right now? I can go into iTunes (as I’ve just done) right now and the first film I see, a new release outside of cinemas, was Avengers 2. I can rent it for £4.49, or buy for £13.99. A tiny fraction away from the Amazon mark-up – they are charging 3 times to buy. Ergo, this product would be selling for $450, but that sure looks bad, especially if $150 looks bad enough, so we only see a rental price.
        Nor have you addressed the selling techniques used, which come from the bottom of the deck. ‘Actually worth five years therapy, worth thousands and thousands of dollars’, etc, etc. I mean it’s really hinting that it will save you thousands of dollars and change your life. Does this not look bad to you? Do these incredible promises not remind you of another organisation?

      • romanesco

        Okay, I just went to Vimeo and checked the rental price of a random cheezy horror flick: $2.99 for 90 minutes, or $0.034 per minute. This set is 26 hours or 1,560 minutes. At $0.034 per minute the rental price would be $53.04. So you pay less than twice for this if you rent the whole thing, or about 3 times if you rent it in increments. So if Ed wants a deal, let him watch cheap horror flicks.

        • Edward Clarke

          Did you have any other option to *buy* these films elsewhere? Yes? Ok then.

          Did the horror flick claim to be worth thousands, be the most enriching experience of your life, worth five years of therapy, and that by renting THE LONG AWAITED DAY HAS COME?

          No?
          This is the ‘straw man’ argument. Pick an element of the discussion, treat it like it’s the everything, and then beat it with a stick ignoring everything else.
          Next.

          • romanesco

            You can look up “straw man” yourself. Next.

            • Edward Clarke

              Right, so you admit you could buy the other films, and that they weren’t being sold in a fashion offering you personal satisfaction or money saving. Good. We’re ‘clearr’.

            • Baby

              Mike Rinderthe former head of the church’s Office of Special Affairs as OSA was mentioned several times in Going Clear..

              and you had to look it up now?

              After seeing Going Clear several times? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

            • Edward Clarke

              I didn’t know the acronym. I know who Mike Rinder is.
              So if I’ve seen Going Clear, I should know what OSA was then, correct? OK, real time, quiz me on Going Clear. This is an argument we can put to bed right now.

            • Baby

              Hahahha.. First anyone can google.. 2nd.. I don’t want to play games. Seriously.. For someone who just started with us..You sure started off aggressively rude.

            • Edward Clarke

              Scientologists aren’t allowed to watch it, or is that just Travolta? I have it right here. I have quite a few of the books here also (although I haven’t read Tony’s yet).

            • Baby

              do you have Tony’s book?

            • Edward Clarke

              Yes, but I haven’t read more than the first 30 pages yet. I have it right here if you want to do a test. (pg 133, first word: supportive). But I guess a Scientologist can own books too.

            • Baby

              OK.. and yes OSA would own the book because they would have to go over it with a fine tooth comb.

              It is not up to me to decide who is or who isn’t a Scientologist. Several red flags appeared coupled with your strong words about the CDs.. just didn’t sit right with me.

            • Edward Clarke

              Well I know Tony said (In London) all they had against it was the mention of Charles Manson.
              Again, what CDs!?!?!?! There are none. The guy who wrote Let Me Sell You A Piece of Blue Sky is selling nothing physical or ownable at all. And doing it with some outrageous sales claims. Seriously, is no one getting the irony here?

            • Baby

              Do you think you’ve made your point ..like 20x? Seriously ..

            • Edward Clarke

              Baby, why do you keep coming back with conspiracy theories, based on one silly thing, and keep mentioning CDs, when you’ve been told they don’t exist. I’ve called you out several times, and you just come up with another excuse of how I could get around you – I’ve gone from being a Scientology troller to head of the OSA. Go me! God, you even have a ‘enough already’ post to me above that’s in response to your own post without any response from me. Call me an ‘asshole’ again and feel good about it.

            • Baby

              “The sessions are available at Vimeo Pro for either individual or complete set rental for six months.”

              Mistakenly called them CD’s

            • Mindphucker

              When you download kindle books, you are essentially renting them, they can be revoked at any time. Looks like you have more of a vendetta against Atack than anything else.

            • Edward Clarke

              I’m no expert on Kindle, but I believe in those instances you get a refund. This is not the same as streaming rights at all, when the person can send you the files for whatever price he names.
              A vendetta? My comments have been restricted to the ad above. And no, I couldn’t attack him on anything else. Saw him in London last month, standing at the back of the hall, regretted not saying hello.

            • Mindphucker

              Why did you create an account to criticise the cost of the Getting Clear videos? I assume you already had an account given that you say you attended the Conway Hall event and you seem knowledgeable about scientology/the Bunker. I call sock puppet (and I am pretty sure I know who you are).

            • Baby

              OH shit Mind.. Never thought of it being a Sock before.. damn..

            • Edward Clarke

              I bought a ticket for Conway Hall via the internet, although I found out about it through the Bunker.
              I didn’t create an account to post here at all. I came on last night to post for the first time, clicked on the thing you click, which defaulted to my Gmail account. So I just typed the password and off I went…

            • Mindphucker

              Yep right. Here are a few phrases which I think you will understand: “blood money”, “Channel 5”, “IAS 2014”.

            • Edward Clarke

              No, sorry. The first two are basic phrases (Channel 5 is one of five free TV channels here in the UK). I know IAS is the acronym of Scientology generally, I don’t know what the A stands for (but could look it up) – I’m sure it would look equally suspicious either way. No idea what IAS 2014 refers to but intrigued.
              Can I just ask one thing. This person some people think I am…. is he a Big Kahuana?

            • Mindphucker

              Small fry, with a grudge. Laters.

            • Edward Clarke

              Conspiracy theorist. I’ll let you get back to your tin hat.

            • Edward Clarke

              Having checked my emails, tickets for the Conway Hall event were sold by a company called Eventbrite, completely independently from the Bunker.

            • Edward Clarke

              Mike Rinder is a mainstay of all Scientology docs in the UK (I’m from London, by the way).

            • Baby

              Seriously the only people that talk about ” Straw Men..” are Scientologists. I heard this over and over and over at Marty’s site.

            • Edward Clarke

              No, ‘straw man’ arguments are pointed out in all debates. Watch a debate between an atheist and a Rabbi online, for instance. Infact, I’d say it’s the most used comment in any debate.

            • Baby

              MEH…

            • Baby

              You were rude to my friend romanesco.. NEXT? Puhllllllllease..

            • Edward Clarke

              The argument was terrible though.
              Why aren’t you selling these videos, just renting them, why selling them so damn hard with OTT comments.
              Sorry, I don’t consider, ‘you can also rent horror films online’ as much of a rebuttal.

            • Baby

              This is an open forum. You came in the door..Your beside manner needs a lot of improvement.

            • Edward Clarke

              Actually, if you look at my original post made last night, it was followed by a lot of personal remarks.
              Seriously, I give a considered argument, you personally call me an asshole, and now you’re asking me to fix my beside manner?
              I’ve stuck to the arguments, haven’t insulted anyone. But yes, some of the rebuttals are pointless to the point of annoying.
              Let me be clear: I know you can rent *other* stuff online. At cost. Phew. Glad we can all agree.

            • Baby

              I thought you were being an asshole. I make no apologies about it.

            • Edward Clarke

              Fine, but its a bit rich then talking about bedside manners to me after that, especially as I tried to take it in good humour (imho).

            • romanesco

              I’ve seen other people use that phrase. He doesn’t even know what it means. In fact, he’s doing it himself. All I did was the math.

              Bwahaha! He just did it again, below.

            • Edward Clarke

              I cant use a straw man against you if the math is your sole argument. The argument was well beyond the math, hence a straw man can be excerpted and beaten to death.

            • Baby

              Oh I know roman.. I’ve used it myself over the years.. It just seemed off the wall in this instance.

    • B4you

      It’s a funny post you have there and a very common point of view. Of course someone would warn all those exes about falling into the pit on the other side of the road. But i think we can take care yourself in this matter. I don’t think the vid’s are just for those in here or any different lurkers and i don’t think the pricing is rated towards this “customer” pool. I do think that the physical congress has payed it self with the attendance so the vid’s is now made for a broader public who is not especially involved in $cientology as your self?.

      It is obvious that there is something wrong, since we cannot pay for each piece, so it will be fixed. And who, will find the History of L. Ron Hubbad interesting for the loop, one more time. I haven’t seen the vid’s but it is my guess that they would obtain outside attention to this global phenomenon of Cult’s and so the price is set for educational/professional purpose and we get a fair price (as i see it) with a deadline – They would anyway end up on YouTube in time.

      Don’t judge Tony and Co. on what you might assume. Most of us in here are well educated in Cult’s and other Scams. And this movement might grow big enough to take on other Cult’s!

      • Edward Clarke

        I’m not judging Tony at all – as I’ve said elsewhere, he’s a great human being in my opinion, and doing fine work. I met him just last month.
        Yes, these videos aren’t aimed at me (someone with an interest in how people can be fooled into religious belief – and although with Scientology it’s a tax con, I think the methodology is very similar) – they are aimed at ex Scientologists, I would think.
        However, that’s my principal beef with it. Do we really need to give these people the hard sell like they had with Scientology, tell them to pay a hefty 150 bucks to stream some videos because it saves them thousands, and is as good as five frickin years of therapy? I thought the anti-Scientology movement was better than that, and so far it has been (from what I’ve seen / heard). Just look at that opening ALL CAPS paragraph of the hard sell. It reads very badly to me.
        And even worse, still, if you point this out, you are a Scientology Infiltrator and you are ‘concern trolling’ apparently. I mean Jesus H., even if you don’t agree with me, I’d like to think I’ve made my point well enough that you don’t think it could *only* come from a Scientologist.

        • B4you

          You point is taken as other has (downthread) been pointed at this. But i think your barking up against the wrong tree. I don’t, believe in any way that, who ever wrote, what your refering to, was using clamspeak or any other sales-pitch to promote using well known “buttons”. That’s my point.

          I also think you are a brave man 🙂

      • Edward Clarke

        >>Of course someone would warn all those exes about falling into the pit on the other side of the road.
        Actually B4you, after having spent an afternoon talking to some on here – and I’ll assume they are mostly exes, I think this is what has happened. I actually feel like I’ve just been debating with Scientologists for the first time. Every aspect of Scientology seems to be on display in here. There’s a herd mentality, an attack mentality, a mentality that certain people flagged as the good guys can do wrong, and any evidence pointing to them in a bad light is bogus. Facts are abandoned, people claim two people quoting a counter-argument is proof you’ve been talking nonsense (and ignore it if one of them later changes their position), etc, etc.
        I’ve found it interesting watching the Scientology docs what when people leave (Rinder, Rathbun) for a while at least, they are still very ‘tech’ based. They don’t (can’t?) clear themselves of Scientology right away, if ever. I’ve seen it first hand in here. Oh, I’m sure real Scientologists would be like utter pirhanas.
        Perhaps the damage can never be undone. I’ve learned a lot, and not sure I ever want to add anything more, but I’m sure that will just convince people even more that I was a Scientologist.

        • B4you

          Sorry you feel that way, but your approach was somewhat suspicious and we do not like troll’s and u did had all the flags up 🙂 What is your point, in coming in here and “warn” us about another scam, where there is none? You are welcome to express your viewpoint and opinion, but go after the ball and not the player. If you are looking fore a more “in deep” forum, look at forum.exscn.net
          This forum is more “mainstream” and a party going on every day, not a war-zone 🙂
          Anyway i speak only for myself and you are welcome around, but lighten up buddy and remember – we are not teenagers! Cheers!

    • Robert Eckert

      “I think this is a very bad moment for the anti-Scientology movement” This is what is called “concern trolling”

      • Baby

        Absolutely Robert.. Good God so transparent.

        • Edward Clarke

          What is transparent about it? What I think is terribly transparent is how desperate a hard sell the above advert is. Seriously, before you reply, go back and read it again. Full disclosure – I’ve actually pasted it into a Word Document incase it gets taken down (is that Scientology behaviour – probably) as I think it’s just so over-sold. Here are just a few quotes, pasted from it. Did you ever think Jon Atack, author of Let Me Sell You A Piece of Blue Sky would say this kinda stuff with a straight face?

          ‘IF YOUR LIFE HAS BEEN HARMED BY THE EXPLOITS OF
          SCIENTOLOGY, THEN…. THE LONG AWAITED DAY HAS COME.’

          (Caps not mine) And it was…

          ‘the most enriching learning experience of my life’
          Does this not read like the kinda Bullshit Scientology would use to sell their lectures?
          I mean, seriously, this is offering people we know are vulnerable, something it cant possibly deliver. Chances are if they’ve crossed to the other side and are internet savvy, they will know a lot, if not most, of this already.
          The Long Awaited Day has come, most enriching experience of your life, pay 150 for something worth thousands, worth five years of therapy… etc, etc. You cool with standing by all this? Does it not sound like they are offering you salvation? Or is anyone who sees it like this a Scientology Infiltrator?

          • B4you

            I see a Jon Atack who is excited about what he present?

            • Edward Clarke

              Well, there’s excitement, and then there’s *that*. I would find it awful at the best of times, but as a sales tactic to ex-Scientologists? It just looks utterly awful to me.
              And it’s matched by a rental only sales plan. Why not just admit it, and sell the thing for $450. Hopefully without all the ‘salvation’ BS.

            • Baby

              We get it Edward.. You just keep repeating yourself. Just give it a rest already.

            • B4you

              Well the rhetoric may have some implications, but there are other things to consider in your analogy and since your not a $cientologist you might not see it!

            • Edward Clarke

              Maybe. All I can see is ridiculous over-selling of a product that can be paid for, but not bought (oh, I’m sure you can pony up and buy again at a later date).

            • Baby

              but I’m not an ex-Scientologist, nor have I done so much as a ‘personality test’.

              …………………………………………………….

              But ya didn’t say that you aren’t a Scientologist. There are many Scientologists that have never done a personality test.

            • MrsLurksALot

              F5…I have no idea from whom I stole this, but it seems appropriate.

            • Baby

              hahahha OMG Perfect Holly thank you.. bawwwwwwwhahaha

            • MrsLurksALot

              Thought you’d get a kick out of that, LOL.

          • Baby

            It is a passionate response by a sincere person who can back up the claims.

            There are thousands that have left the cult and have unanswered questions. Many have been under mind control and need to see that others have also been controlled.

            It is a proven fact that others learn from others who have been through the same experience. Financial ruin, disconnection, long hours with little pay.. a need to escape.

            No ..not everyone who sees this is seen as a Scientology infiltrator. But those who know about Congress, Auditing.. and NOT OSA are suspect.

            • Edward Clarke

              Auditing is a no brainer for anyone who has seen a single TV program. Congress I knew nothing about until the video posts on here last week, which I watched. OSA I had heard of, but didn’t know the acronym, and there are so many subsections of Scientology, I don’t really care to differentiate them when I watch a show.

      • Sandy

        This whole interchange with this guy and the Bunker fills me with regret. He has many points – yet he got no respect for his valid points.

        • Robert Eckert

          He was only here to stir trouble.

    • Oh, just fuck off!

      • daisy

        They are very concerned about these videos. They have been all over Tonys blog discouraging the purchase. Good !!

        • Sandy

          These are not purchases. Hope you & everyone got that. They are short-term rentals only. I worry that these kind folks got that. They gotta watch them quick. I get what Mr Clarke is saying in a way. No purchases here.

          • daisy

            sorry misspoke

        • Edward Clarke

          daisy, you probably mean me here, so I’ll address this again with (I hope) a few additional points.
          I’m just a name on a message board, so if you misrepresent me, who cares? I don’t, at least not much. It’s not like I have relationships, even virtual ones, on here already. If I’m the sole source, then you have misrepresented Scientology too, although it’s hard to feel sorry for them. It seems they have done a lot to deserve this suspicion in the past.
          However… at the risk of this sounding like the punchline to a rubbish joke, I think the biggest danger is the representation to yourselves. If everyone who comes on here with criticism is dismissed, you’ll end up (if you are an ex) back in the same position you were in to begin with. Anyone who says a single negative thing, no matter how they back it up, is an SP, an inflitrator, etc. This just CANT be good. Keep your guard up, yeah, but keep your guard up to that every-critical-person-is-an-SP scenario too.
          Lastly, let me just point out something obvious which I hope involves common sense and can free my role here from being pro-Scientology. The money has been spent by these guys already. There is no more outlay. If, say, I was to convince the entire Bunker population not to buy, and everyone else, and they never made a cent, what then? They obviously have a cause and work hard at it, and have all this footage. If they just cut their losses at that point, they would just chuck it on Youtube (maybe even make some money on their channel). And that just doesn’t sound like a win for Miscavige does it? Frankly, I think this stuff may end up there (by their choice) when the natural selling cycle expires, and it’s initial release window is long gone. A Scientologist with half a brain wouldn’t try and scupper this rental-only-niche-market release, I wouldn’t think.

      • Sandy

        Why did you post that? The man actually made many valid posts. Not just here, but all over the rest of his 30 + posts. He said that the money charged for just a short-term rental is quite a lot of money. well – yeah. I do hope these Buncker peeps do understand that they will NOT own these pieces. They will be jerked back after the rental period expires.

  • Pierrot

    *** RED X +–+ Reminder +–+ RED X *** Sunday, 20 September 2015.

    Good morning Night Owls and Early Birds,

    Monday 14th : NO Score.
    Tuesday 15th: Sacramento & Boston scraped in and saved he day.
    Wednesday 16th Boston and SFBay scored a couple of hits.
    Thursday 17th: Sacramento leads SfBay & Buffalo (Hello Buffalo).
    Friday 18th: NO score.
    Saturday 19th: NO score, I am getting worried.

    Buffalo seems to be picking up the tempo

    RedX tips & Complaints procedure are included in the google doc under the RedXTips tab.
    Flag the lies, whack a few bait & switch ads : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-Kvg78kCcvo5gL7UfPcmhmbsagTNtdj0y2LAiHVFrCU/pubhtml

    F5… Imagination by Archann enhanced by Sookiesookie for RedX, and flickred by Aeger
    Primo https://www.flickr.com/photos/120371503@N05/16748176442/in/set-72157642802079293

    • 9001

      Good morning. Can I confirm that I can flag these ads even though I’m located in UK.

      • salin

        I believe one can flag from anywhere in the world.

        • 9001

          Thank you. Just flagged the list.

      • Pierrot

        i can’t harm, I am flagging from South Africa, just in case. Although we have been told that the “weight” of the flag is stronger the closer you are to the source!

        • 9001

          Thank you Pierrot. I’ll look into proxying up to get more weight, Like the “source” pun 🙂

  • Baby

    Goodnight all.. it’s been real.. xo baby

    • MaxSpaceman

      Goodnight sweet Prince(ss). May flights of angels sing thee to thy rest.

      • Baby

        Oh you are so sweet Max.. They always do..thank you honi..

        ; )

  • James Beverley

    I skimmed through hundreds of the posts about the release, promotion and pricing of the Getting Clear films (sadly, they do not have subtitles). Here is some reaction from
    me, in point form.

    1. I regret many of you experienced technical hassles with rental. I misunderstood Vimeo rules on discount codes so the GC90 did not work outside of the USA until I cleared up the problem. As well, I made a technical error on the rental of Session 1 and then fixed it. Sorry for the delay. I was away and without Internet access most of Saturday.

    2. I read posts from some who cannot afford the regular or discount price of the films. If you fit into that category, please write me privately at jamesbeverley@sympatico.ca and we can work out a cheaper price.

    3. If you paid $120 because the discount code would not work, write me and we can work out getting you the $30.

    4. Jon and I chose to go with Vimeo because we could not afford to do Blu-ray. We pursued that route until we got an estimate. It was stunning and the company needed an upfront guarantee.

    5. We thought a 6 month rental period was long enough but if some of you want a year
    rental (the longest Vimeo allows), we can work on it.

    6. Jon and I wrote the promo as a general piece to go in many directions. It was not written specifically for
    ex-Scientologists but towards them, Scientologists, never-ins, academics, members of other religions, lawyers, and even those, like Edward, who want to study how people are fooled into religious belief.

    7. We never meant to mislead anyone in what we wrote and we are sorry if it brought bad memories to any ex-member in terms of Scientology sales pitches. However, we stand by the endorsements from people who actually attended the conference. We stand by the use of “amazed” for our reaction since it was our actual feeling as we watched the films over the summer. We do not apologize that Nora Crest really claimed that the five day conference was worth five years of therapy. That was one way of saying that the conference is worth $90 or even $120.

    8. I do regret the use of the line “the long awaited day has come.” That rhetorical flourish left us open to
    misunderstanding. The “long awaited” part was mainly a reaction to the enormous internal and external pressure we were facing to get the films out. It felt like years from the day the conference ended (June 22) to release day, this past Saturday.

    9. Edward, you make it clear in your posts that you do not like being called names and prefer
    logic, reason and a bit of calm. It would help, then, if you would avoid overkill in your own accusations. You call our promo piece “utterly silly, ridiculous garbage.” If it was this bad, would Tony have allowed it on the
    Bunker?

    10. Edward, you also imply there is a con going on because we chose the rent option. You complain repeatedly that there is nothing to own. Would you complain if you rented a car and did not get to keep it? We actually
    chose the rental option because selling the films on Vimeo prevents people from downloading. It is rather ironic that your complaint about us renting (which we did in order to protect ourselves from downloads) comes in a blog where you admit to illegal downloading of Going Clear.

    11. Edward, you also complain about the “hilariously overpriced” rental. You say it is “extortionately
    priced” and “shameful.” Hilarious? Extortion? Shameful? Really? 28 film sessions, 26.5 hours, filmed in High
    Definition using $250,000 worth of audio and visual equipment, with experts brought in from all over the world. At the $90 discount rate, it is about $3 per session. That is extortion? What price would you suggest for us to escape your extortion charge?

    12. Jon and I have paid an enormous amount in time, energy, and money in doing the Getting Clear conference and having it all filmed. We do not apologize that we want to recoup our losses. And we are truly open to get access to anyone who cannot afford the discount or regular rate (just write me at jamesbeverley@sympatico.ca)

    I hope that the comments above help explain the context for the promotion and pricing. Our enthusiasm in the promotional piece arose simply out of our honest belief that the films are sensational and that everyone who
    sees them will be amazed. We also believe that the enormous expenses of the conference and filming more than justify our price. As well, and most important, the content of the sessions warrants the price.

    No, the videos will not give salvation (we did not promise that) but we believe people who see the videos
    will agree that Edward’s attacks are basically unwarranted. We do hope Edward will watch the films. If you do so, Edward, and find that the videos are not worth the price, I will re-pay you the difference between your cost and what you think they are worth.

    • Toni m

      Thanks to you and Jon for the great chance of seeing this great conference. I got the set on Sunday and I didn’t have any problem on using the code. Ninety dollars is nothing compared with the great value of this information. This valuable information I’m going to share with my kids to prevent them the suffering and heartaches that came with getting involve with this cult. I love the introduction that you and Jon gave to Mr Ortega’s segment, very true and deserved.

      • EmmaDaoust

        Toni m, thanks for the heads up on Jim’s post.

      • Jon Atack

        Much appreciated, thanks!

    • EmmaDaoust

      Thank you, Jim.

    • Edward Clarke

      James, thanks for the considered response. I know it was not to me directly, but I seem to pop up a lot in it, so I will respond to you below with the same consideration (I hope).

      Before I start though, let me state two things for clarity. I will answer all of your points, however this does not mean that I am taking the opposite side. I will just give you an opposite view point. If I feel strongly about something and am giving you my personal opinion I’ll begin with a star *.

      I will concede it is entirely probable that there were no bad intentions on the costing of this, the decision to only rent it, and sell it the way you have. But this doesn’t change the fact that (to me) you’ve done it very badly, especially so given the main marketplace and the types of selling techniques we know they are especially vulnerable to.

      And for context, this all came a week after we were treated at The Bunker to some 2006 videos of Scientologists rhapsodising about how much they enjoyed lectures they had just bought. The selling was utterly ridiculous. I found more than a hint of it present in yours also. The timing certainly didn’t
      help. Anyway…

      1. With technology and high priced items, you really need to get all your ducks in a row before you go out with the product. It sounds like a lot of people have had to contact you for help, refunds, which could have been avoided. But shit happens.

      2. Well, this reads bad to me also. You currently have three pricing variants for the exact same thing on your site, all attached to (imho) a very hard sell indeed. And now you’re adding a ‘if you can’t pay, we can come to some kinda arrangement’. Does this not sound Scientology-esque? “You can’t pay your way up the bridge? No problem, just come and work for us. Bring two toothbrushes. One for your teeth, the other for the toilet” What would this arrangement involve exactly? And if it involves nothing more than a further discount, why make someone else pay $90? Remember, you are, effectively selling a piece of blue sky here, certainly at the point of sale. Oh, there might be a lot of work that has gone into it, and costs, but what you are handing over is no different if you sell 100 or 100,000. Nothing more is being sold depending on numbers. And, indeed, nothing is actually being bought either. If someone offers you $5 for the whole thing, it’s all profit! (Or, in fairness, just more money fighting the prospect of a loss) Mavis might not have the cash but put it on her credit card. Mabel might have a credit card, but doesn’t want to use it, so emails you for a further discount. Should Mabel pay less than Mavis, kids?

      3. Remember, if you overcharge someone by $30 and then repay them, unless they are in the USA, you’ve almost certainly just cost them money. Full refunds rarely happen where currencies are involved.

      4. I totally understand.

      5. Any reason you wouldn’t maximise the rental period? Is there any reason you won’t upgrade a rental indefinitely (even if you have to so that manually by request)? I hope you can see the eventual question here… how long would someone have to keep paying you rental fees to have continued access to this material? Your product is already complete and finite. But what is the ceiling for paying you for it? So far, no answer exists.

      6.* I think it’s terribly written, but I guess that much is obvious by now. Like I said, testimonies by Scientologists for lectures were made public just last week. And they were desperate. This guy on your list sounds almost as bad: “… the most enriching learning experience of my life. I paid $1200 to my university to take the conference as part of my graduate studies. It was worth every penny. Now I am delighted that people all over the world get to the watch the same amazing sessions I did, and for a whole lot less.” OK, so this guy has already been a business executive, but is now at school with one eye on saving money. It cost him $1200, but he says we can enjoy it for a whole lot less. Sounds like this dude knows how much you are charging for this, but no one else does. What exactly did you request from him to get a testimonial like that, which includes how much money we will save (although it’s unlikely he had any idea). This question is ‘fair game’ for discussion since on here last week The Bunker speculated exactly what people were told in advance to give the kind of over the top testimonials they gave to purchase Scientology lectures. Let me also point out that should I rent these lectures over the five years of the therapy I no longer need per another testimonial, then I’ve actually just paid the $1200 the guy above paid. Or more, if your bundle offer doesn’t last.

      7. *These endorsements are straight from the over the top hard sell playbook. I actually do, for the record, think the videos would be entertaining, but it’s being sold as a huge money saving, huge therapy saving, life changing moment. Remember who your main market is for these things. These people are vulnerable to sales techniques and promises of a major life event. And you have over-egged it (imho) to the max.

      8. Fair enough.

      9. You said: “You call our promo piece “utterly silly, ridiculous garbage.” If it was this bad, would Tony have allowed it on the Bunker?” I actually mentioned last night that I’m surprised he did. He seems way more level headed then putting this kinda thing up, more or less endorsing the pitch. I could speculate on a few theories from friendships to just not really paying close attention, but I don’t know. I’d like to know, I have to admit. If he came on and said he thought there was nothing wrong with the sales pitch or the fact that no purchase price has been announced, then yeah, that would be a big score against my arguments.

      10. *Part One: “Would you complain if you rented a car and did not get to keep it?” This isn’t any kind of argument. If I want to buy the car, I can. If I just want to know the car is buyable, I can find out. If I want to know how much it costs, piece of cake. There was an awful lot of this argument last night. The fact that ‘rental’ exists as a thing isn’t disputed, nor is it relevant. Part Two: You say you chose the rental option to fight piracy and mention me illegally downloading Going Clear. Let me deal with the latter point first. Going Clear was on Youtube (in HD) the day after broadcast. I honestly cant remember looking into the uploader (although HBO are known to put political content straight onto Youtube – Bill Maher, etc). Rather than stream it for it to be taken down mid-stream, I opted to download it instead, which took 20 minutes or so, then the film was there for me to watch offline at my leisure. However, let me confirm… if that hadn’t happened, with the film otherwise unavailable in the UK and the broadcast cancelled (until today – woohoo!), I would have tried to find it online some other way. If this makes me a bad guy, I’ll have to take that on the chin. But I will buy the bluray when it appears (and watch tonight). As for streaming making it less likely to be pirated… I don’t think this is the case. It certainly adds a link to the chain. But it really is simple to do. I think, basically, anyone who wants to pirate it probably could with ease. And certainly that’s the case for any future Bluray.

      11. *This is neither here nor there, but how the hell do you manage to use $250,000 worth of equipment? The most tech-head camera savvy director in Hollywood (probably David Fincher) just used a state of the art camera that costs under $60k brand new. Anyway… we come to heart of the matter. How much are you charging for this stuff? Put a price on it. Screw the rental, how much to buy? Even if you aren’t selling them right now, if it’s a tenth as good as you claim, people are going to want to own it. Tell them right now how much you will be charging for it, how much you think it’s worth. You’ve already addressed the fact that these folk will likely have to buy twice and dangled a discount. Let’s not even talk bluray, where costs could go any direction. Let’s talk about what you are letting people borrow right now. Video files via Vimeo. How much are you gonna charge? Why not put it upfront and centre. This question needs answering, because whether or not your product is worth the rental price, it a) aint cheap, and b) by your own admission may well be followed by further payments. Rent to Buy deals in other industries would be costed up front. The ex business executive seems to know, so tell the rest of us.

      12. I wish you luck in breaking even, I just wish you had been more transparent with costs, and less like ‘you know who’ with that sales pitch.

      Last bit: thanks for the offer. I’ll turn it down for now, but I may end up buying at some point in the future.

      The annoying thing is that it almost sold itself. Your little clip is great. Quality is first class, crystal clear, with what looks to be interesting personal testimony and expert opinion. And if you want to kick back a notch, you can watch L. Ron’s offspring take to the stage looking and swaying like a rock star, bashing out one liners with style. I *would* like to see it, and I think paying for it is fair. But I’ll see how the whole thing pans out.

    • James Beverley

      Edward,

      I have to be brief because I have two big deadlines for today. I follow your statements and reply in order, though I can only address some things

      1. Thankfully, there were not that many people who wrote with complaints about the technical errors. So, hopefully, it was not too widespread.
      2. I consider my offer to let poor people get the sessions at a cheaper rate to be a decent thing to do. There is no need to turn this into a Scientology-like move.
      3. I think it is weird that you think “nothing” is being bought by those who rent the films. Likewise, your statement that if someone offers me $5 for the whole thing “it’s all profit!” is really strange, at least in the world I live.
      4. You will be glad to know I just changed the rental period to one year.
      5. Edward, you leave me stunned with the way you can twist things to make them seem nasty. The Tyndale student who is a former business executive gave the great endorsement for one reason: he truly thought it was a super conference. You say “the dude” knows how much I am charging for this.
      Edward, everyone knows what Jon and I are charging: full price is $120, reduced rate this week is $90.
      6. People can’t be that vulnerable to what you call our “sales techniques” since hardly anyone has rented the films.
      7. Sorry, but it is way too early to figure out the details on making the films available for buying. There is nothing sinister here. Going to Blu-Ray is complicated.

      I am glad you were more civil and careful in your reply than in many of your earlier comments. I still think your earlier reactions were way over the top. For example, you accuse us of extortion. You seem to have no qualms in making such a loaded and libelous attack. As well, you seem to have little ability to imagine what it is like to be on the receiving end of your barrage, especially in the context of Jon and I spending enormous time, energy and money on a venture to warn about Scientology.

      I want to end on a positive note. I really do appreciate your basic concern that parts of our promo may have hurt some people. As well, I am grateful for the kind words about the trailer.

      • Edward Clarke

        James, similarly I will try to be brief (but likely not succeed)… But in summary, I just don’t think the business savvy has been high, or that proper attention has been paid to the sales pitch, the restriction of ownership (rental only) and the lack of restriction to charges (no option to buy). I’d also be asking serious questions internally about the business side for future reference – how could you end up using $250,000 of equipment? Either the people renting you the equipment took you for a absolute ride, or you have foolishly spent money on equipment required for a reasonably budgeted Hollywood movie for no justifiable reason whatsoever.

        2. I tried to
        explain what could be construed negatively about this action and how it creates
        an unfair playing field. But I accept your reasoning, of course. However, *any* payment is
        good, as I explained, but seems you didn’t follow. Fortunately it comes up
        again right away…

        3. I thought this
        was simple. I have a car. I decide to sell it for $3 – $4,000. When this
        transaction takes place, I gain something (the cash), and I lose something (the
        car). As I lose a car I have valued at a set price, I could consider it a loss
        if someone offers me $50. My net worth has actually just decreased in a very real way. This is why I should not sell at this price. If they just
        want to look at the car, they can pay whatever they like. I don’t even have to
        see them do it. In the example I gave you, the hypothetical renter of your
        videos is only involved in a one way transaction. YOUR EFFORT AND COSTS ARE ALL
        PRE-TRANSACTION AND DONT CHANGE. You don’t lose anything, you don’t provide him
        anything (yes, he gets something for a while, but it has no impact to you
        whatsoever – it is a copy that requires no copier – it is ‘blue sky’). The only
        transaction that takes place for you is that you take his money. Therefore
        offering these for *any* price to an individual renter only involves one thing
        from your end – a cash receipt. Should someone pay you two bucks for the whole
        thing, the entire impact to you is you’re now two bucks better off. For the
        type of thing you are loaning to people, *any* money paid is to your advantage,
        unlike the car scenario, or even a DVD purchase scenario. Now you can beat this example to death for relevance now it has been blown up, but it was only initially to illustrate that the discount has no material impact to you other than more cash. Unless you think the person would have paid anyway which I think is unlikely and moot now that you’ve offered him an ‘arrangement’.

        5. This quote still
        looks ridiculous to me. Why is he telling folk they are getting it much cheaper
        than he did with such glee, and quoting sums he might as well have invented? Why is he boasting about paying such a high sum for the seminar, and using this arbitrary amount
        to make your rental costs (which he doesn’t quote, and did he know at this
        point YOU WERE NOT SELLING THE VIDEOS?) I believe your seminar cost over three
        times less than what he is quoting. What he paid, if different, and why he paid it is surely
        of no consequence, and looks bad if he then uses this very high figure to make
        another figure look good, which we don’t know he was ever aware of, or that it
        is going to be rental only. HE HYPES THIS UP SO MUCH PEOPLE WOULD WANT CONSTANT ACCESS TO IT. THEREFORE, WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT IT WOULD COST AT ALL. You need to provide
        an actual price for this (to buy – again, don’t hide behind the Bluray – you can
        cost the video files via Vimeo). Otherwise you are selling something with
        constant payments required and no ceiling. As I said last time, this arbitrary
        figure this guy gives us – over three times the price of the seminar – could actually
        have been topped by one person renting these videos from you, if they hit the spot in the way you are hoping. Although at least
        you have now halved the rental cost for return customers. And doubled the time
        it would take us to pay as much to rent the videos as this guy managed to spend
        in Toronto. Although this remains annoyingly possible.

        7. I’ve tried to
        make this crystal clear. Forget the Blurays for now. You can SELL these for keeps on
        Vimeo, which you will eventually do, I would imagine, if you release Blurays.
        You don’t want to do so now for (mis-advised) piracy concerns. I’ll accept that
        for a moment. However… Bluray or any physical product aside, HOW MUCH DO
        YOU *INTEND* TO SELL THESE VIDEO FILES FOR? (As downloads, basically the
        same product you are currently selling as a rental) All we know is that you
        were charging $240 a year (which you’ve now halved) with no ceiling, and no
        guarantee that it will come to Bluray at all (which now sounds less likely) or indeed that it WOULD EVER BE ABLE TO PURCHASE OUTRIGHT.
        Your sales pitch makes reference to purchasers RE-PURCHASING this. You KNEW
        MORE MONEY WOULD COME FOR NO EXTRA PRODUCT. Maybe they will want to just own
        the files, not a Bluray set. So, again, how much? Or will people just have to
        rent over and over with no ceiling? You are entitled to charge even more
        than this later on for a Bluray, as it costs more, of course. There is no
        justification for holding this back, unless you think it will just look awful
        written down. And by doing it your way, you will *never* have to quote the
        actual price to people buying a single product. (“With your rental
        discount, you can now buy these videos on Vimeo for just $300” – I think
        it’s clear people would probably go nuts even at that now, but you have never
        had to actually say $450 at any point). And this is probably my biggest
        beef.

        To wrap up, you are
        asking people for a lot of money for a limited time with something, even
        acknowledging a likely later payment to come. But there is no guarantee this
        payment will ever be an available option to attain absolute ownership and even if it is,
        you have withheld the price. And nothing has been said so far to indicate this wont be on a
        rental loop forever.

        We’ve already halved your rental costs for anyone who digs these videos
        as much as they have been hyped. Let’s see if we can also put a ceiling on it
        too, and get an actual purchase price for these things (even if it isn’t
        made possible right now).

        Personally, I think this whole campaign might benefit from a do-ever.
        But so far, we have seen the rental period (and, by extension) the overall
        costs for someone wanting to have permanent access to this, HALVED.

        But I think you need to go further and confirm two things:

        HOW MUCH WILL YOU CHARGE FOR THESE VIDEO FILES (NOT BLURAY, BUT THE
        FILES AS ALREADY AVAILABLE) TO OWN WHEN YOU DECIDE TO DO SO? AND WILL RENTERS HAVE THEIR EARLIER PAYMENTS TAKEN OFF THIS TOTAL?

        AND WHAT IS THE CEILING YOU WILL NOT GO BEYOND CHARGING FOLK FOR RENTING
        THIS INDEFINITELY?

        If I did purchase this, and it does look extremely
        interesting, and I enjoyed it as much as the hype suggests, I would just get
        very annoyed at the end of the rental period. And if I knew now that it would
        end up totalling more than I personally considered reasonable (for me), I’d like to know now so I don’t get dragged in. If you should be OBLIGED to confirm full costs up front anywhere in the world, it’s on a message board full of ex Scientologists.

        • James Beverley

          Edward
          I will think about your major points as I move forward on the Getting Clear films.

          It amazes me that you can be so judgmental about people you have never met. That applies to your accusations of extortion towards me and Jon, as well as to my student who was only trying to put into words how much he valued the conference. You claim that he is “boasting.” Edward, you do not know him, have never met him, and you have no right to question his character or mine.

          • Edward Clarke

            Hi James,

            Hopefully we can put this to bed soon, but I’d like to clarify a few things… You can take everything I said as a comment on the selling of this item and that alone. I’m sure things are sold like this all the time, but given what you are fighting *against*, and given that this very site has attacked the crazy overselling of lectures just days before your advert, it just all seemed too much. But I’m talking about the selling of this item, and that one thing alone.

            As I said over and over, this attack on Scientology seemed to use all of their tactics. I’m sure this is as a result of nothing more than a one-off lack of judgement – possibly not considering the situation in full, or aware of the environment it came in. But I really couldn’t believe what I was seeing.

            The ‘extortion’ quote seems harsh. I couldn’t find it myself, but I’ll take your word I said it in a bad context. I’ll re-contextualise here – it *looks* like extortion, in the same way everything being sold by Scientology does. Or at least it did when first announced. Like all full-on sales tactics, the question it is actually asking people is ‘Can you afford NOT to own this?’ And, as I’ve said a million times, this essential, very finite thing has costs to the purchaser which *so far* appear limitless when they absolutely should not. This has been partially fixed, but I’d go much further. As it stands, to me the ad looks no more honest than the crap we see all over the internet. If it’s as good as you say, you really need to put a price on it. By price, as I hope is clear now, I mean a price *to buy*. Anyway, I’ll take the ‘extortion’ quote back. If I was writing it properly, rather than answering three folk at the same time, all of it would read differently.

            I’m not sure why you have picked up on me describing the worst of the testimonials as ‘boasting’. Why is he so excited we can all buy something much cheaper than the price he paid, and then tell us he paid over three times the cost of the seminar? It looks like such a desperate hard sell you should not have included it. Or, at the very least, with no justification for him to quote his own arbitrary ridiculously high costs, these should have been absolutely removed. What justification could you have for advertising your product with someone comparing the price it’ll cost me (although we don’t actually have a *final* figure), to a price he claims to have paid which is 3.5 times higher than the price you were charging? This looks beyond bad. An honest pitch should never have included this.

            My advice for something like this would be – pretend you’re going to get attacked for it. Make it fool proof. In my opinion, Tony achieves this naturally on a daily basis. You know what… I would remove ALL OF IT. Other than the description of the individual lectures, the build up and *all* of the testimonials need to go. Just as I couldn’t watch the 2006 Scientology lecture testimonials and think *some* of them were actually OK, only some were dubious, it was the same for me with yours.

            The girl who equates the lectures to five years of therapy… I’m sure she honestly meant it, however, let me break down why I would not have included it in an honest sales pitch. 1. It really over hypes the product as just about the best healing option a purchaser could ever hope to have. This is just too hyped, especially for an expensive rental product. It reads like the Scientologist stuff. Again, can you afford NOT to own this? But that’s not all. 2. Her experience CAN NOT be replicated at home. You are selling apples, and hyping oranges. What could have been therapeutic about her experience? Well, she would have been amongst a community of peers, and likely felt five days of great fellowship talking to them all. And that is what you do in therapy – *YOU* talk. Which she did, I believe, also at the conference as a speaker. This would have been helluva therapeutic as well (not to mention even more frightening). But you simply are not selling that any more. All of the talking has been removed from the experience.

            Jamie DeWolf… sounds hilarious. I’d love to watch his bit. But that soundbite you included… I don’t wish to say he’s making anything up, but he over-hypes it for effect and I would have removed parts. May I be so bold as to say no reasonable person could agree that this conference will be seen as the D-Day for Scientology? Come on. I’m sure it was both great and important but it remains a niche event, and probably will remain so. I don’t mean that as a bad thing, but he is making a claim that just seems so off the mark, it is plainly unbelievable. Right now, D-Day for Scientology, if such a thing were to come, would resemble just one thing… D-Day! It would be an unexpected dawn raid by a large number of armed men. Just my opinion (still hoping it happens). But if we were to consider a lesser D-Day, surely Going Clear is the only candidate of the year so far. It is going out to non-Scientologists the world over. It is changing the game a little bit. So even his claim just read badly to me. Now I’m sure in terms of content, Going Clear can’t even compete with you. But in terms of impact to Scientology, the opposite is true.

            You know, as insulting as this might sound, I feel I should add this. The only person I would have though would spend so much to shoot a niche event, with a viewership that was always going to be extremely limited, would be David Miscavige. If I can be cheeky and align myself with you guys, I thought when I first saw this advert ‘Oh my god, we sound as bad as them.’ Finding out how you filmed it almost felt like the cherry on top.

            The non Scientology movement is in attack mode. Tony pulls no punches, but (imho) keeps getting it right. We should take them to task for their ridiculous sales tactics. And, in a final analysis, if the non Scientology movement start selling the same product, you really need to be whiter than white. And I think this was a fail. BUT IT CAN STILL BE ENTIRELY FIXED. Unlike theirs.

            The one thing I feel compelled to add is I keep referring to the members on here as ‘vulnerable’. I stand by that, but it sounds condescending as hell on a read through. So I’d like to say, that I *do* think someone drawn to Scientology has vulnerabilities to selling that many people just don’t have, probably even after they get out. Especially a type of hard sell, which (imho) was exhibited here But we all have blind spots. And I’m sure these people would walk backwards through certain situations which would practically institutionalise me. And many that believed stuff that looked like blatant nonsense to me, would still wipe the floor with me in an IQ test, etcetera. I just wanted to add that.

            I have nothing against yourself (who I know nothing about) or Jon (whose articles on here I’ve enjoyed in the past).

            Your product looks great. If there’s ever a buy price on it, and a sales pitch that sounds good to me, I’ll likely load in.

      • Frodis73

        James, not sure if you know or not or I’m doing something wrong, but the individual links still do not work for me.

  • Kid Kat

    I purchased the set with no problems. I’m in SE OH. Thanks guys!

  • Pol Sinus

    I have to say that vimeo is not such a good choice. I have the quickest connection possible, but it is still a pain to watch some of the videos (No 5 is never starting) and their is freeze more than i can bear. Why won’t you do it on youtube ? i’m writing right now because the video 9 has just stopped after 2 minutes and i can reload, wait, practice rain-dance but nothing happens…It is really hard to take as i am completely addicted to these. Let me do another post to tell you how much i love these conference. Thanks anyway.

    POL

  • SJFriedl

    I’m sorry to see all the bad feelings here; being invested and interested in the topic doesn’t make one an expert in putting on productions of this type, and I’m sure that staring a financial loss in the face created some real challenges. Those suggesting shenanigans on the part of the presenting team seriously need to get a grip.

    I was happy to fork over my $120 to be able to enjoy the conference and to help support their good work.

    • SJFriedl

      I’m now on my third listening of the whole set; this is just fantastic material. Thank you John and Dr. Beverley (and the whole cast of characters)