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Scientology’s disgusting secret: Young teens used to interrogate adults about their sex lives

[Serge Gil]

Serge Gil first reached out to us more than a year ago. It’s taken a lot of time for his story to get to a large audience, but tonight he’s going to be featured on an episode of ABC’s 20/20 that we were also interviewed for.

Gil’s story is wide ranging and very troubling, and we don’t know how deeply 20/20 is going to get into it. But we wanted to provide some basic background on what he went through in order to supplement ABC’s show. And we’ve had help by talking to Claire Headley, Aaron Smith-Levin, Mike Rinder, and Jefferson Hawkins.

We’ll start by pointing out that Serge Gil is an angry man. He’s now 38, but he says that how he was treated when he was a young teen at Scientology’s “Flag Land Base” in Clearwater, Florida has permanently scarred him, and he is looking for payback.

“The world needs to hear what I went through, Tony,” he told us last week in our latest conversation, sounding agitated. Earlier, he had said, “I’m going to be an ambassador for all the children who were being abused.”

Serge was born on November 3, 1978, and he was raised in a Scientology family. His parents were in the church, and so was his grandmother. By the age of 12, he was deeply studying the works of L. Ron Hubbard and he was training as an auditor. And for any ambitious auditor, the place to be was the Flag Land Base.

“I arrived at the base in 1992. I was 13,” he says. The base was a magnet for very young Scientologists who worked for the church. Some, like Serge, had signed the billion-year contract of the “Sea Organization,” promising to dedicate future lifetimes to working long hours for Scientology. Others were staff members from far-flung Scientology facilities known as “orgs.”

“The Flag facility was housing all of the outer-org trainees. So there were a lot of minors,” Serge remembers.

When Serge arrived at the base to begin his Sea Org experience, he was already, at 13, a “Class 4” auditor and he had gone “Clear” on Scientology’s “Bridge to Total Freedom” of courses. In other words, he had already undergone extensive training. But at Flag, the pursuit was to achieve technical perfection — the delivering of courses exactly the way L. Ron Hubbard intended.

Meanwhile, Serge wasn’t allowed to go to school. “Seventh grade was the last grade I finished. If you went to school, they sent you to ethics. And we were only allowed to go to school on Sunday anyway. One reason I joined the Sea Org was that I thought I’d get schooling. But I got ethics instead.”

Serge told us that instead of going to school, he spent hours on a Scientology “metering course” that took the concept of technical perfection to an extreme degree.

“This was a special confidential pilot program,” he says. “It was ‘reach and withdraw’ with the meter.” We asked him what that specifically meant. “You would touch a part of the meter, and you would say ‘thank you.’ And then you would let go of the meter. ‘Thank you.’ And then do it again. For two hours. Five times, for ten hours in a day.”

What was the point? “The point apparently is that you are so familiar with the E-meter that you can use it with your eyes closed. It was extremely mind-numbing.”

Aaron Smith-Levin talked about this pilot program during his appearance this week on Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath. His twin brother Collin, Aaron explained, was also trying to become one of the first technically perfect auditors in a new regime of auditing the leader of Scientology, David Miscavige, had introduced, calling it “The Golden Age of Technology.”

This in itself was hugely controversial in the church. L. Ron Hubbard, who had died in 1986, was still considered “Source,” and Miscavige wasn’t supposed to be making changes to the “technology” Hubbard had left behind. But in the mid-1990s, Miscavige said that training had been faulty and needed to be redone — and young, up and coming experts were being groomed to lead the change.

Claire Headley remembers that Miscavige made a big deal about Serge Gil, and how competent he had become in those new drills.

“He was like Dave’s golden child on the Golden Age of Tech,” she tells us. Claire was living at the time on the other side of the country, at Scientology’s secretive “Int Base” where the highest echelons of international management were housed on a 500-acre compound near Hemet, California. David Miscavige lives and works at “Int” much of the time, but he had made a trip to the Flag Land Base in Florida, and when he returned to Int, he had the entire base turn out for a briefing, Claire remembers.

“He played a video of this kid doing a C/S 53 assessment on a preclear. He played it to the entire base, telling us this young kid has perfect assessment TRs. That’s how I first heard of Serge Gil.”

In a C/S 53, an auditor reads off a long list of items to see if they produce any reactions on the E-meter being held by the subject, called a “preclear” or “PC.” The exercise would be videotaped to see if Serge executed the assessment perfectly. The point of a C/S 53 is to find out what’s gone wrong with a PC during auditing. The auditor reads off the list, notes if the needle on the meter reacts to anything, and then identifies which item on the list got the biggest reaction. That result was then sent to the C/S — the case supervisor — who then decides what steps to take next. The key to what Serge was doing was to be efficient, methodical, observant, and not to miss any details, all things he should have learned while going through Scientology’s many training routines, or “TRs.” And it was that quality of being thorough without making any mistakes that had caught Miscavige’s eye.

“I had to mark down, perfectly, every E-meter reaction to every question. If there was one mistake on the video, the whole thing was a flunk. It was nearly impossible to do,” he says.

And the person who would be deciding if he had passed the test was Shelly Miscavige, wife to the church’s leader and a hard-as-nails church executive in her own right. (This was about a decade before Shelly vanished from Int Base in the summer of 2005.)

“Shelly Miscavige was supposed to be giving you the pass. No one could get the video pass — except for me. I was the only person at the FSO [the Flag Service Organization, which runs the Flag Land Base] who got a pass from Shelly. That’s when they started treating me like a prodigy. I was supposed to be a prodigy of technical perfection.”

Serge might have been a minor, but he was a hot prospect. And so he was assigned to take a high-pressure position where he could use his skills.

He became an interrogator for handling “red tags.”

Aaron Smith-Levin helped us understand what this meant. An outer-org trainee, living at the base, might be getting auditing on a course that he would need in order to take back to the org where he’s from. At the end of an auditing session, he would be handed over to an “examiner” to make sure that the session had been successful. The test for that is what’s called a “floating needle,” a particular set of smooth swings of the E-meter’s needle which Scientologists believe indicate that a session is finished properly. But if a PC doesn’t get a floating needle, there’s trouble, and it’s called a red tag.

“You’d get him back in session, finish, send him to the examiner, and he still wouldn’t get a floating needle. Now it’s a double red tag. So they’d do it again, and if he still doesn’t get it, then you have a triple red tag. And you only had 24 hours to get a floating needle or you lose a statistic. So this was a problem,” Aaron says. (Scientologists are obsessed with their statistics, and each week, they are expected to have higher “stats” than the week before. It’s an impossible pursuit that leads to harsh discipline — even prison-like conditions — if they fail.)

A triple red tag was a very big deal. And when it happened, that’s when Serge was brought in. At this point, Scientologists believe, the subject is holding back some sort of secret that is preventing the floating needle from happening. And it was Serge’s job to figure out what that secret was.

“Serge was known to be a very good auditor. A really easy guy to talk to,” Aaron says.

In a room at the Coachman Building on the base, Serge would sit the preclear with the red tag down and have them grasp the sensors of the E-meter. But this was not an auditing session. It was an interrogation. Serge had to find out what the preclear was hiding, and whether it might actually prove to be something harmful to Scientology itself.

“When we were interrogating these men, we felt that we were keeping outside people from coming in to destroy Scientology,” Serge says. The interrogation would get into the preclear’s most private thoughts, looking for the secret that was being held back. And often, that would include an interrogation about sex.

Serge, in other words, at only 15 or 16 years old, often found himself quizzing men in their 30s and 40s about their most intimate sexual experiences.

“These people had some pretty dark pasts,” he says. “But we were there to protect and inspect. And these interrogations went on for hours. The whole organization was on edge. Everyone knew that someone had a red tag and that we needed a floating needle. I’d have up to six people telling me what to ask a person. And they’d tell me to ask him about sex — they’d tell me to ask him about masturbating.”

We’ve heard from numerous ex-Scientologists that the organization seems to have a particular preoccupation with masturbation, and a real interest in their members’ sex lives in general. If you want to join the Sea Org, you have to fill out detailed documents about every sexual partner you’ve ever done anything with, from kissing to intercourse. And you have to spell out your masturbation habits. Three years ago, we leaked copies of these “life histories” that we’d obtained. They contained questions such as “Have you ever engaged in homosexual activity?” and “Have you ever engaged in perverted sexual activities?”

But it wasn’t just Sea Org workers who were subjected to such questions. A preclear who had a red tag had to be questioned, and the interrogation often went into sex and masturbation.

“I was instructed to use the ‘murder routine,’ to get people to admit to something big,” Serge says.

Claire Headley first told us about the “murder routine” when she explained the most notorious of Scientology’s interrogations, the “Joburg Sec Check.”

“The idea is to ask questions that would most likely be much worse than whatever it is the subject is holding back,” Claire explained. “So you might say to the person, ‘Well, did you murder someone?’ ‘Did you hurt someone?’ ‘Did you do something illegal?’ On and on. Until finally the subject blurts out, ‘No! I didn’t murder anyone. I —’ and then they spill what they’ve been holding back.”

Serge says he applied that routine, but to sexual questions.

“He might admit to masturbation. OK, I’d say, ‘But have you put a rat up your ass?’ And he might say, ‘No, but I put a banana up there.’ So then I had to get every detail of it.”

Serge estimates that he interrogated more than 500 older men about their sex histories while he was a minor.

“Or I had to get them to admit to criminal activities. Financial crimes or other things. The goal on a red tag was that I was supposed to get so much dirt out of someone, they would be disqualified in case they didn’t get a floating needle. I had to get them admitting to something so dark they could get kicked out.”

But the worst, he says, was when he would quiz a man about masturbating, asking what the man had thought about when he jerked off….

“And he’d say, ‘you.’ And then I’d have to get all the details from him, of him masturbating while he was thinking of me.”

As disgusting as it sounds — minor teenagers quizzing men in their 40s about what they thought about while jerking off — numerous former Scientologists we talked to for this story told us that it was actually quite common in the church.

“It is very common. I was doing the same thing at 16 when I was at Int Base,” Claire Headley told us.

One man she was interrogating was in his late 40s, and he brought in a written account of about 50 pages describing his masturbation habits. “I had to give him a meter check to see if there was anything he’d held back. That’s how I learned what masturbation was, reading the O/W write-ups of 40- to 50-year-old men at the base,” Claire says. “All of the sec-checker [interrogation] trainees at RTC were all under 18. I knew two that were 14 years old.”

We had to ask some of the older men we knew who had left Scientology — were they on the other end of these interactions?

“It was creepy. It was very creepy. More than once I had to go in session with a teenage Sea Org girl, maybe 18 or 19 years old, at Flag,” Jefferson Hawkins told us. At one time, Jefferson was Scientology’s powerhouse marketing genius who came up with the “volcano” TV ads in the 1980s that helped grow Scientology to its greatest extent. He left the organization in 2005, and wrote an excellent book about his life in Scientology, Counterfeit Dreams.

“I had to spill my guts to these young women. It felt really creepy. And not only were they young women, they were very innocent. They didn’t know anything that I was talking about. It was a creepy experience.”

But was it common?

“Oh yeah. Well, because, particularly at Int Base, a lot of times the CMO ethics people were young women. And they loved power. They loved lording it over older people in general. And they loved to lord it over veterans who had been around Hubbard. Here they were able to just dominate these people and make them feel like shit. They could be quite cruel,” he says. “But that was one thing they had to do, was take older men into session and quiz them about their sex lives.”

How did that develop?

“Well, they’re auditors. They’re supposed to have their TRs in. They’re not supposed to react to this stuff. And of course in Hubbard’s view, a young person is just as old a thetan as an older person. They’re just old thetans in young bodies. You’ve been here before in past lives, you understand what this is,” he says.

“It was common. And it was very abusive.”

We asked Mike Rinder if he went through the same thing, and he surprised us with his response: “Claire was one of the people who questioned me,” he said. “It’s a standard thing. Whenever you’re in trouble in Scientology you’re getting asked questions like that.”

Serge Gil left the Sea Org in 2004. Four years ago, he came out as a gay man, and decided to stop doing Scientology altogether. Then, a little more than a year ago, he began thinking he needed to say something publicly about what he’d been through at the Flag Land Base. He says he’s been “declared” a “suppressive person” by the church — in other words, declared an enemy. But tonight, he is getting a huge platform to talk about the way minor children are treated in Scientology.

“They declared me. I have no family. I have no friends. I have nothing to lose.”

 
——————–

‘Leah Remini’ finale, and other news

A&E keeps changing its mind about the huge hit it has on its hands. Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath premiered as the strongest opening of a series in two years. Tempering that excitement was the fact that only eight episodes had been planned.

But A&E quickly put together a special additional episode, sponsored by Reddit, that had Leah answering questions from Redditors. The special episode also featured Paulette Cooper, Chris Shelton, Karen de la Carriere, and Jeffrey Augustine.

Next week’s episode, featuring Lois Reisdorf and her son Brandon, as well as some upstart journalists (titled “Enemies of the Church”), is the seventh of the original lineup, and the eighth overall. A&E has chosen to refer to it as the “season finale.”

But we’re told that another special episode featuring questions from Reddit will air on January 17. And the original eighth episode of the series, focused on Leah Remini herself, will air the last week of January.

Got all that? Original episode seven (“Enemies of the Church”) on Tuesday January 10, Special episode nine on Tuesday January 17, and original episode eight (focused on Leah) later in the month.

That’s what we know for now.

 
And here’s this morning’s Good Morning America segment about tonight’s 20/20 episode…

 

 
——————–

HowdyCon2017

Go here to start making your plans.

 
——————–

3D-UnbreakablePosted by Tony Ortega on January 6, 2017 at 07:00

E-mail tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Our book, The Unbreakable Miss Lovely: How the Church of Scientology tried to destroy Paulette Cooper, is on sale at Amazon in paperback, Kindle, and audiobook versions. We’ve posted photographs of Paulette and scenes from her life at a separate location. Reader Sookie put together a complete index. More information about the book, and our 2015 book tour, can also be found at the book’s dedicated page.

The Best of the Underground Bunker, 1995-2016 Just starting out here? We’ve picked out the most important stories we’ve covered here at the Undergound Bunker (2012-2016), The Village Voice (2008-2012), New Times Los Angeles (1999-2002) and the Phoenix New Times (1995-1999)

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of L.A. attorney and former church member Vance Woodward
UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists
GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice
SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

Other links: Shelly Miscavige, ten years gone | The Lisa McPherson story told in real time | The Cathriona White stories | The Leah Remini ‘Knowledge Reports’ | Hear audio of a Scientology excommunication | Scientology’s little day care of horrors | Whatever happened to Steve Fishman? | Felony charges for Scientology’s drug rehab scam | Why Scientology digs bomb-proof vaults in the desert | PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer | The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill | Scientology boasts about assistance from Google | The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

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  • UhLasare

    I’m a fairly naive, sheltered person. IS she on drugs? Does she have a medical condition? Or is the blinking her tell?

    • PickAnotherID

      All of the above?

  • Fink Jonas

    From the comments I hear 20/20 didn’t do a good job of bringing out the bone marrow of Sage’s story so you know what that mean right? Leah Remini has to have him in her show, yaaahoo! that’s another episode on Leah’s show and best of all without Yingling.

    • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

      I’m all for that!

    • Mick Roberts

      Oh but I would LOVE to have Leah interview Yingling. Leah wouldn’t let that fem-bot ramble on and dodge the questions without giving her a HUGE piece of her mind (Dan Harris could take some pointers from that interview as well).

  • Good tomorrow.

    • TexasBroad

      All of them. Every one.

    • Morning Dodo.

  • Mick Roberts

    So pulling in a couple of POW family members of Sergio’s and forcing them to call him a “liar” is the best they could come up with for an attack on this genuine guy? These same old lame, repetitive, soporific attacks are getting really stale. Come on CoS….come up with some new material already for your attacks on these heroes of ours to at least make it interesting. It’s getting pretty pathetic at this point.

    • PickAnotherID

      Hubbard locked them into the “Attack the attacker” mode, then threw away the key to the lock.

  • Observer

    I wonder how much Yingling’s kids and grandkids know about what Grandma Goebbels really does.

    • TexasBroad

      Her fluttering innocence/ignorance aside, I’m certain she does know enough about the abuse to never have let her kids or grandkids anywhere near.

    • beauty for ashes

      Yeah not all gramma’s are sweet, some are evil and scary.

    • mockingbird

      Imagine thinking you have a great grandma that pays all the bills, helps your parents and pays for your piano lessons and karate and for your education at the best schools and then after college you learn she got money from a cult that used child slavery. Your whole life can feel like a crime and lie.

  • chukicita
    • PickAnotherID

      I almost choked on my wine on that one.

      • chukicita

        Right? Those eyelids were like a ceiling fan on high speed when that lie was falling out her mouth.

    • madame duran

      Now if Dan Harris actually DID HIS JOB, he and the editing team at ABC would’ve included those images right after Monique Yingling (aka, Blinky Muffins) made that ludicrous statement. So instead of relying on mere opinions or PR soundbites, he can inform his audience with FACTS.

      • PickAnotherID

        Not the one’s above, but they did flash a “Psychiatry: An Industry of Death” sign right after her statement.

      • chukicita

        Realistically – and I’m not trying to defend them – I don’t think they had time for that. I think they were blindsided by a last-minute appearance of an Scn attorney (even if it was a tax attorney. Where’s Helena Kobrin?)

  • beauty for ashes

    Wait, I missed it, Where was Nora? Wasn’t Nora supposed to be on? I’m so upset!

    • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

      She got muffin-blocked.

      • Brushed away by Blinky Cleaning Services.

      • beauty for ashes

        Are you effin kiddin me? Awww Nora. We should all email 20/20.

        • pluvo

          It’s probably better regarding what they did NOT show about Serge. Would probably put Nora in a weird image like “I left because I like girls” and nothing about the abuses.

          • beauty for ashes

            I’m just upset for her personally, I would be upset, with all that feeling of personal risk.
            and I think Nora has a stronger voice than that. so I respectfully disagree. Although I don’t disagree that it was a kind of crappy show (excluding the guest exes).

            • pluvo

              Of course she has a stronger voice than that!! What I meant is what abc would have made out of it. This is nothing against Nora, the opposite is the case.
              abc warmed up a lot of old stuff but were short cutting Serge, cutting out the abuse of a young boy having to sec check adults about their sexual behavor. This is child abuse!! THIS is what the public have to know, not Morty spraying some weird Squirell Busters with water or so. Why?? Probably abc didn’t want to get in the bad with Scn – “a painful level of neutrality on the part of ABC”, as Chris Shelton called it.

        • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

          Guest appearance on one of Leah’s special eps? I think that’s the only fair response. ; )

  • Try watch this…and then watch it again!
    https://twitter.com/MichaelRizer/status/817602503818743808

    • thetastic

      Best part, by far!

      • pluvo

        Just below sb twittered (sorry, I don’t know how to screen shoot it):

        “I’m pretty sure @MoniqueYingling is just @DavidMiscavige_ in Mrs Doubtfire drag #abc2020 @LeahRemini”

        I’m cracking up.

        • click on the 3 dots “…” and copy link to tweet and paste it here

          • pluvo

            TY, but it doesn’t work. Maybe bc I’m not registered.

            • Intergalactic Walrus

              You don’t have to have a twitter account. On a PC, you can just click inside the tweet to open it up. Then copy the URL/web address of that tweet and paste it into your disqus comment.

          • WOG with Attitude
  • KingofSweden

    The Blinking Dead (aka Monique) looks like someone who has been assigned to kill Mrs Doubtfire and assume her identity. What’s she hiding under that scarf? Copper grounding rods? An Adam’s apple? Ridiculous.

    • Rita G

      She should keep the scarf. Tomorrow she may have to hide the choke marks from her boss…

      • mockingbird

        Kinky blinky.

  • Leah, Mike and Serge came off great in the face of what was definitely a painful level of neutrality on the part of ABC. Like Tony says, these guys have been covering Scientology for years and they are obviously under strict orders from ABC attorneys to not even hint at any anti-Scientology bias. And they got Rachel Bernstein in there too! She has been an cult recovery therapist for decades and was stalked and harassed by them in the most disturbing way possible early in her career but never gave up. Despite the poor editing and content decisions ABC made for most of that episode (Marty Rathbun criticizing the critics – huh?), the suffering and pain of Scientology’s victims still came through and Leah nailed Dan at the end. Maybe they thought that was going to make her look bad, but if so that backfired on Dan and ABC in the worst way possible because Leah was right. The guy does come off in the end looking like an asshole.

    Blinky McBlinkerface is such an obviously lying putrid mess. What boggles me is that Dan never asks her, “So tell me, why is it that the only Scientology spokesperson the Church could come up with in the last five years to go on camera is their non-Scientologist tax attorney?” I’m sure they billed and drilled her for hours on what kinds of questions to expect and quite literally every single one of her responses was a lie. It would be kind of impressive if McBlinkerface could pull off even one of them with any degree of credibility. Every single person on my Twitter and FB feeds saw right through her act immediately. And what was with that spray-on tan, silvery makeup?

    • Liberated

      I know, why doesn’t anyone ask…..where’s Mr. Miscavage?
      Isn’t he the leader, why won’t he represent his “religion ” on camera?
      What does he have to hide?

    • PickAnotherID

      “Every single person on my Twitter and FB feeds saw right through her act immediately.”

      A bad actor telling lies was pretty much the concensus about Yingling among my neighbors that watched at my place tonight too.

      • TexasBroad

        I sent out a request in a closed FB family/friend group asking people to watch and give me their feedback and no one responded…I’m am disappointed. I’ll take my revenge when their kids are selling band candy – lol.

    • Mick Roberts

      Dan Harris: “That’s not my job”
      Ok, that could be a fair argument. But isn’t your job to probe someone like Yingling for answers instead of letting that “non-Scientologist Scientology expert” ramble on mindlessly and avoid your questions?

    • Ms.P

      Oh my, “Blinky McBlinkerface”, this the best description. “So tell me, why is it that the only Scientology spokesperson the Church could come up with in the last five years to go on camera is their non-Scientologist tax attorney?” and better yet, a Catholic who obviously has no interest in scientology all these years. Remember she also stated her children and grandchildren go in for private meetings with the priest and she has nothing to worry about just like scios. have nothing to worry about cause she never heard about sex abuse, never told to her by anyone, so nothing to worry about.

    • mockingbird

      They got key facts wrong. They said Hubbard invented the E meter which he stole from Volney Mathison along with the tone scale and guided image therapy. Monique Yingling lied about kids being kept with other kids. That’s not true.

      They bungled simple facts that basic research would cover. Yingling said questions would NEVER be used inappropriately. That’s absurd.

    • 3feetback-of-COS

      She looked like she was sweating through the whole interview and her blinking got worse towards the end.

      And can’t she afford a decent looking blouse? That blouse/scarf thing she was wearing looked AWFUL!

    • mockingbird

      Hey regarding Blinky – it ain’t easy being sleazy !

    • J. Swift

      Chris: Blinky McBlinkerface sure looked like she could use some Vistaril.

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/efd4addd95ab92c368543c8ea2266ddf14efd30267ddd2f4c074f1565d3c91cb.jpg

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    I actually think that this comparison is unfair… to Busey! :O
    (refresh)

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6be492fdbea7da56259f36e53782b83f6647e75b25fc43d4b8b85be1ff27c2fe.png

    • beauty for ashes

      Gary Busey has an affable smile 🙂

      • Mick Roberts

        And makes more sense when he talks….

      • Kay (aka Nasty Lady)

        I love Gary Busey….he really does the most with the limitations he has which are pretty severe due to a head injury and other issues. He’s an interesting and lovable guy with a good heart.

        • beauty for ashes

          yes, I concur Nasty lady, what’s up with that? come one you gotta splain!

    • Yeah, I think even Miscavige will see he HAS to get someone else in front of the camera. Maybe he’ll finally get “sick and tired of all you stupid SPs letting me down” and finally decide to get out and speak himself. That would be a train wreck I’d pay good money to watch.

      • Rita G

        I remarked the same thing to hubby during yingaling’s blinkfest.

      • We can only dream. But I think the parishioners who watched will be asking why a Scientologist could not have done better.

      • Ms.P

        He ain’t going out in front of camera, in the mean time off with her head – since she’s not a scio. I guess her punishment will be not receiving that million dollar yearly bonus.

      • Jack99

        Even Jenny Linson would be better.

        • Oh god, she’d be a disaster. Talk about someone with “no ARC” LOL.

          • Liberated

            God, I’d pay to see that!

          • mockingbird

            Something terrible happened to her.

        • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

          She’s tragic. I have trouble watching her without feeling sick to my stomach, sometimes for conflicting reasons.

      • Where is Homo-Novis when they need him. He should be able to ace these interviews.

        • mockingbird

          Mike Pence wants to use conversion therapy on these homo novis.

        • i love this term “Homo-Novis” but i am afraid it will take a while longer before begins to sink in, into the broader public. Then it would be like WTF? Until then… We have Homo Ridiculous

          • mockingbird

            Is that another Travolta joke !!?

      • chukicita

        It’s his day job. He should be doing it already.

      • mockingbird

        That would be tragicomedy gold. The only possible better thing in that area would be the return of Tommy Davis. Please.

      • Harpoona Frittata

        Especially if we could get Ted Koeppel back to go round two with lil davey

    • Aslan’s Own

      If he’s right (and he should know), who will be the next spokesmuffin?

  • PickAnotherID

    At least 20/20 had a clip with a bit of “We Stand Tall” and ‘Micro-manage’ wearing “The Shirt”…
    http://esq.h-cdn.co/assets/15/14/1427731748-miscaivagemotocross.png

    • Jack99

      Oooo Eeee Ooo Eee we believe, Oooo Eeee Oooo Eee we believe

    • Mick Roberts

      When I watched this with my wife tonight, I made a comment that his mega-ego makes him just have to be front and center in this video. She commented “I don’t know, it looks like maybe he needed to be there because of his vertical limitations”.

    • Rita G

      That very expensive shirt (Hermes?) is hideous.

    • Mick Roberts

      If he wasn’t such a prick, I would actually feel sorry that the guy was physically unable to actually stand “tall”.

    • Harpoona Frittata

      Because Elron knew his lil buddy was always going to be the smallest man in the room, he gave him that very special shirt and ordered him to always stand front and center when they sang “We Stand Tall” and to sing real loud so that everyone would laugh at him, and he would know they were all laughing at him…and it would just make him meaner and meaner.

  • Bob

    Watching 20/20 right now. Blinky Yingling is about as genuine as a rubber nickel.
    The Cherch thinks it’s effectively defending itself. The more they lie and attack the more they look guilty.

  • PickAnotherID

    While 20/20 may not have done everything $cientology critics wanted to see, or the way we would have liked, overall I believe the show was very damaging to $cientology. Particularly among those who only started looking at it since ‘Aftermath’ premiered. I also believe Yingling played a major part in generating that damage to $cientology tonight. Her obvious insincerity made the exes who spoke out all the more believable.

    And on that note, I need some sleep.

    • Bob

      Absolutely. Scientology comes off as insane and their testimonial videos show stiff smiley robotic members.

    • Kestrel

      I agree. I’ll know more when a friend has a chance to watch the show. She started following ‘Aftermath’ and will be a good litmus test.

  • Taffy Sinclair

    My reply to Monique Yingling re: her kids/grandkids raised in Catholicism being asked inappropriate sexual questions???

    SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!

    • Taffy Sinclair

      It’s NEVER appropriate!!!

    • Qbird

      holy moly that’s fast. thx Dice.

    • What’sup

      Cheers, bro.

    • Ron Schmidt

      Thank you….I just got home from work, perfect timing!!

    • madame duran

      Speaking out against the breaking up families is “anti-religious hate speech”?? Destroying the family bonds of love is “pro-religion” and worthy of First Amendment protection?
      DO YOU ACTUALLY LISTEN TO YOURSELF, SCIENTOLOGY????

    • madame duran

      Dan Harris: “It [disconnection] is voluntary but there are consequences if you don’t disconnect”
      Blinky Muffins (aka, Monique Yingling): “Well…*squirms* *blinkityblinkblinks* there’s consequences in every choice we make in life”

      Harris: “Do you think that kind of material is age-appropriate?” (referring to exposing minors who are auditors to explicit confessions of an adult nature)
      Blinky: “Well I…I don’t think that that kind of material is necessarily age-appropriate *blinkblink* but I also don’t think that that necessarily happened. I can’t say that it’s never the case but the church has very, very *blinkityblink* strict protocols in place as to how children, um, *blinkOHGODblink*are raised in Scientology. So it would not fit within, um, *blinklikeabrokentrafficlight* those standards for that kind of thing to happen.”

      THAT WHOLE EXCHANGE ABOUT THE AGE-APPROPRIATENESS OF THE JOBURG & CHILDREN’S AUDITING QUESTIONS WITH SEXUALLY EXPLICIT/SUGGESTIVE TONES IS DISGUSTING!!! Blinky is a MOTHER and a GRANDMOTHER, a CATHOLIC who no doubt is aware of sexual abuses within her own faith community…yet she can blithely pass off the outrageous questionnaire as “perhaps appropriate for some 14-year olds” and suggest a ‘church’ that would ask such questions is trustworthy. The possibility of inappropriate outcomes should be met with blind trust in caregivers and not prompt anyone to take precautions? Snake Woman, you think we’re that stupid? Auditing questions are designed to draw out confessions of one’s deepest secrets, traumas and bad behaviours (“overts and withholds” to use Scienospeak). For a six year old child answering the question of “Have you ever done something to your body that you shouldn’t have?”, somehow the reply of “cutting hair” doesn’t strike me as an alarming action that requires spiritual counselling…not even stuff like “nosepicking”. My gawd, this woman is so vile in how low she’s willing to stoop in defending cult scum!! I’M SO ANGRY NOW I’M STARTING TO BLINK UNCONTROLLABLY!!!

      (side note: Is that Tory Christman in the yellow sweater at 34:13?)

  • Bob

    Jeez, the more they interview Blinky the stupider she sounds. Wow she comes off so f–ked up.
    Keep talking blinky your foot keeps getting deeper in your throat.

  • Bob

    Wow, parents of Serge, lying through their teeth. Robots will do what they are programmed to do.

  • He look so innocent… almost like a puppy… like something is up his A**
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/753d3d2ab813b2d0c42495d7da2fc5ea138930b7b744728aec5bbf1eaeb9e5ca.png

    • Contamminated

      He does…his name is Tom.

      • maybe he is sitting on his face?

  • J. Swift

    ABC’s Dan Harris is an asshole. Harris is craven and incredibly dishonest. I have never seen such a complete charlatan as Harris.

    ABC was exploitative and dishonest on this segment. Very cynical and shoddy work that did not even remotely grasp the story.

    The ABC piece tonight was the single worst piece of “journalism” on Scn I have ever seen.

    • Liberated

      It’s Dan Harris…and I agree.

      • J. Swift

        Blinky looked like death warmed over. She is tired and it showed. Very apathetic. Her lies were not convincing. She has lost her edge.

        • Liberated

          Oh yes, she was horrible.
          The crowd has been very tough on her this evening…her life will never be the same.

        • 3feetback-of-COS

          And whats with that white blouse/scarve thing she was wearing?? Looked awful.

      • J. Swift

        Errata fixed. Thx.

    • TexasBroad

      Yes. I blame the lawyers, but ABC didn’t deserve their audience tonight. They took a free ride on the success of A&E, Leah and Mike and their more compelling storytelling. The war theme was infuriating.

      • Frodis73

        So true! We all know they have backed off on sci stories in the past too…interesting (annoying) to see them try and take advantage of the popularity of Aftermath. If it brings more people to Leah’s show though, I can live with it, but it has a sleazy feeling to it.

        • Kay (aka Nasty Lady)

          I agree…I do not put this type of journalism about Scientology in the same category as, for instance, the BBC’s pieces or Australia’s pieces on Scientology. They are still pussyfooting around.

          • Frodis73

            It would be great if PBS and Frontline would tackle scientology. Frontline is still pretty darn good…in a sea of not so good journalism.

            • Kay (aka Nasty Lady)

              I agree…..I really appreciate Frontline, and they don’t pull any punches. I really appreciate PBS.

            • Harpoona Frittata

              Let’s bring Ted Koeppel back to call lil davey out of hiding and do a real interview with the cult leader. No more of these wog professionals, let scientologists speak for scientology!

            • Sherbet

              I think those days (of DM having the guts to be interviewed) are over. What a shame. That would be some show.

      • Glen

        The contrast was startling between the powerful and contextual The Aftermath with the hackneyed and shallow program tonight.

      • J. Swift

        TexasBroad, 1,000 internets on your post. The crew of ABC 2020 tonight were tabloid television carnies riding on the blood, sweat, and tears of Leah, Mike, A&E, and everyone who has appeared on Leah’s show. ABC’s war theme was sensationalistic and showed why 2020 has zero comprehension of the actual story.

        The almost total ineptitude of Dan Harris on the topic of Scientology really showed tonight. Harris was like Ron Burgundy: A self-important stuffed shirt who uncomprehendingly read from index cards prepared by his carnie producers.

        • Sherbet

          Harris seemed he wasn’t giving Yingling a pass on the questionnaires — I was impressed! — but he missed so many obvious questions, so many places where he could have challenged her and didn’t. Leah’s a-hole remark was very telling. We saw an hour of Harris, but she had him the full day and he must have annoyed her. As we have seen, Leah Remini has no patience with ignorant people.

          • TexasBroad

            They left that in though…a safe but satisfying bone thrown for what the lawyers made them cut?

            • Sherbet

              The a-hole remark? It didn’t do her any favors, but she reacted honestly, and that’s who she is.

        • TexasBroad

          Serge’s story, so well told above, was clouded and confused by the war theme. I wish I knew when Yingling signed on to this show, the conditions attached to her appearance, and how the show developed once she was a part of it. COS’s responses to the stories told by exes about the abuses never address the allegations of abuse but instead attack the motives of the person relaying their story. ABC played into that and formed their story around it.
          They missed the story.

    • Harpoona Frittata

      The interviewer seemed to have very little to no background knowledge on $cn and failed to press Ms. Yingalingading on any of the huge whoppers that she was telling, without showing any sign whatsoever that he was aware of how blatantly he was being lied to. Not sure if Dan ever got deep enough into his research on the subject to even watch that famous South Park episode,

      Whoever put it all together figured that the cult deserved equal time to rebut the very serious and detailed accusations that have been made against it, but failed to notice that the cult’s attorney didn’t address any of them and instead, just made the same blanket denial at least three times and was allowed to get away with it…lame and pandering, but in a kind of lazy, clueless and inattentive way.

      Leah was hilarious and appears to have got bleeped out, right there at the end jokingly calling Dan an asshole. I thought Serge was quite believable and seems to still be decompressing. I didn’t catch how long he’d been out. As for Mo, she came across like a reptile in repose and you just wanted to make her into your own personal pinata in the worst way every time she squirmed out of answering a question…the eyelid flutter thing is just plain creepy and I got the distinct impression that they marked little absence seizures, in which Mo went away for a moment and her BT’s took over.

  • Missionary Kid

    Maybe people should send Monique $3.00 in dimes, to represent her 30 pieces of silver.

    • Contamminated

      Lol…with a suggested name change attached, no doubt.

    • TexasBroad

      Hey you! How are you feeling?

      • Missionary Kid

        A little better, but I’m still anchored to the couch.

        • TexasBroad

          Happy Birthday and Get Well and Are You Going To HowdyCon? and drink fluids, and get rest and why are you still up when you’ve been sick?
          Sorry about all that…not sure when our paths would cross again and wanted to fit it all in.
          Oh… and (((hugs)))!

          • Missionary Kid

            Thanks. I’m feeling better, and, so far, i’m planning on going to HowdyCon

    • J. Swift

      Sounds like someone is feeling like their old self once again!

      • Missionary Kid

        I have arisen from the dead. BTW, I read your post about sending a Baptist minister to pray over me to my non-fundamentalist sister. She cracked up. Thanks.

    • coonellie

      MK…forgive me, but your illusion to a Biblical Judas seems sorts of wrong, seeing as you’re a non-Biblical believer. It just seems strange. Maybe you should try justifying her behavior outside of a biblical context. Can’t have it both ways/

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        While this is a Biblical allusion, “30 pieces of silver” is also a pop cultural reference as well.

      • PickAnotherID

        30 pieces of silver is not unique to Judas. Biblically 30 pieces of silver was the going price for a slave. And in the case of Yingling, Miscavige should ask for his 30 dimes back.

        • coonellie

          Thanks for telling me that. I’ll have to look up the history of the going price of a slave back then so I won’t sound so uneducated.

      • Missionary Kid

        Good point. I think that she betrays mankind by her actions just for the lucre. That’s my point.

        • coonellie

          And, an excellent point it is. Thanks for being gracious and on point.

  • darb

    Scientology claims what goes on in auditing is strictly privileged information.
    http://www.scientologynews.org/faq/is-auditing-confidential.html

    Yet at 27:40 in the 20/20 interview she states that she was told what was discussed in Gil’s auditing sessions.

    https://youtu.be/Kxqt5msaVVg?t=27m40s

  • darb

    http://www.scientology.org/faq/scientology-and-dianetics-auditing/is-information-divulged-during-auditing-sessions-always-kept-confidential.html

    IS INFORMATION DIVULGED DURING AUDITING SESSIONS ALWAYS KEPT CONFIDENTIAL?

    Absolutely and without exception.

    Traditionally, all communications between a minister and parishioner have been privileged and confidential. That is certainly the case in the Scientology religion, and this trust is never violated. In fact, the Church would invoke all legal protections under its clergy-penitent privilege to safeguard this confidentiality.

    The Auditor’s Code requires a minister to never use the secrets divulged by a parishioner in an auditing session. The information given in trust during an auditing session by a parishioner to a minister is considered sacrosanct by the Church and Church ministers. All such information is kept strictly confidential by a Scientology minister and the Church.

    • mockingbird

      Pure unadulterated bullshit.

    • Kay (aka Nasty Lady)

      I read your other post below per other bunkerites suggestion……I get your comment now. Sorry.

      • darb

        I should have posted this as a reply to my first post pointing out Yingling’s admission that she had access to Gil’s auditing history.

  • After I watched 20/20, I went back and showed my husband (who does not follow Scientology) a couple clips of Yingling to get his opinion, and he said, “Scientology has a lot of money – you’d think they could have hired someone to appear on camera who’s not so blinky and sweaty.”

  • Frodis73

    I can’t believe DM was crazy and/or desperate enough to send Blinky in to do his bidding again. She was such a disaster last time and it did not go better this time. Just another foot bullet for the wee one.

    • she is a Tax/IRS expert, so this might be the only reason. to hell with all the other claims, but don’t mess with their Tax-exempt and she was, asked about its exempt and got all excited!

  • mockingbird

    I wish I could help one of these shows to LOOK at the doctrine and practices of Scientology and the history of the group and Hubbard. These shows come across like sub-moronic imbeciles did the research.

    When Scientology follows the Hubbard playbook exactly including using TR L and manufacturing evidence the reporters ALWAYS act like they have fucking amnesia and can’t read Scientology references.

    It’s beyond idiotic.

  • Jack99

    Why didn’t Harris show Yingling the Sara Goldberg letter?
    “Really, disconnection is voluntary? Then how do you explain THIS?!”
    Blingling’s pants would have caught fire. Would have been good television. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/48a710ecad0187ac50f5fd07aea695f570e786a4ac6bf0c987c1d65c0718a84c.jpg

    • Frodis73

      Yeah, and I am pretty sure he is the reporter that covered that story and showed that letter in said story!! Flunk!!

    • Meek Chirps

      Disconnection _IS_ voluntary!

      It’s just that _100%_ of Scientologist who disconnect “choose” to disconnect.

      I’ve seen too many videos where Scientologists say (disconnection) “was my choice.”

      It’s just that _EVERY SINGLE_ person “choses” the same thing: to disconnect.

      “Multiple” Choice:

      a.) Disconnect

      b.) [See a.)]

  • Nat-leficent

    Just watched it. I don’t see what the fuss is about. It seemed fine to me.

    • Kay (aka Nasty Lady)

      I wasn’t overly concerned about anything either, although I sometimes wish the journalists would ask more in-depth questions….they always kind of seem to back off a little bit. Of course, their network does own 50% of A & E so they had to tread lightly. Marty Rathbun came across as….well just confusing, but then his situation is confusing and he hasn’t said much to clear that confusion up. However, I have always maintained that he doesn’t owe anyone here or anywhere else an explanation about anything in his life or about any decisions he and his wife have made. Leah is a force of nature, that’s for sure.

      • Nat-leficent

        Yes, but the way everyone here is reacting, you’d think Dan Harris fucked up or something. It’s easy to see what happened: 1. Harris rarely gets to do these things so he shoves everything he’s interested in into one hour — hence the clunky “war” motif. That’s the only way to talk about Marty and Leah in the same show. 2. Monique shows up at the last minute to monkey wrench the thing. Harris has to interview her and include it at the last minute. But who wouldn’t do that? C’mon we all would. It’s not easy to get a spokesperson on camera and sometimes their gaffs are worth their weight in gold. 3.The editing is all funky and the war metaphor breaks down because of the extra interview but he totally gets his digs in with the sec check bit.

        Dan Harris has cared about the scientology story forever and he has a big audience and a credible news organization behind him. If one watches it again and tries not to be a zealot about it, the story is obviously fine and not a pile of dogshit like everyone is acting like it is.
        Edit: spelling

        • Sherbet

          It was better than I expected it to be, but maddeningly incomplete.

          • Nat-leficent

            Only to us. To the average 20/20 viewer it was fine. Dingaling looks totally crazy. Dan Harris does not deserve what is being said about him here tonight. Seriously.

            • Sherbet

              I agree that, regardless of how much information the viewer has about scientology, the big takeaway was that the person speaking on behalf of the church looked sleazy and dishonest.

            • Kay (aka Nasty Lady)

              I thought he did okay. I liked it when he produced documents and kept asking about whether this was appropriate for kids, that was the part I liked the best.

          • Kestrel

            Not enough hours in the day.

        • TexasBroad

          I don’t blame Dan. I blame the lawyers and editors. My guess is the clunky war motif came in on step 2 – when Monique shows up. And yes, of course she should be there if her appearance is offered.
          I will agree it was “fine” but I was hoping for better than that. I think Serge’s story wasn’t properly told and the whole thing was disjointed. Exes were characterized as enemies. References to allegations were made to MYingling (without elaboration at all) and she was given the airtime to defend without the context of the allegations.
          Not a pile of dogshit, but a definite disappointment.

          • Nat-leficent

            I wasn’t disappointed, but maybe I was not expecting as much. I’m not trying to be contrary. I love Leah’s show as much as anyone here. I recently wrote a glowing review of it on Disqus’ Religion channel. But I think it’s made a bunch of people around here a little impatient and metaphorically bloodthirsty. Dan Harris was reporting on this story while Leah was still a shill. I mean, Jesus Christ, relax and remember who your friends are, people.

            • TexasBroad

              I didn’t take your opinion as contrary…just stating my own.
              My next opinion is that your new AVI is adorable…love the retro look.

            • Nat-leficent

              Thank you. I used to change my name and avi more but when Captain Howdy told me he liked Natleficent — I haven’t changed it since 🙂

            • TexasBroad

              Aww– that’s sweet. 🙂
              (Wonder what he would think of all this now??!!)

            • Nat-leficent

              He’d love it. He may even have moved on to some other shitshow by now. That man had a fantastic brain, an acerbic wit and a huge heart. I loved listening to his take on things.

            • TexasBroad

              I’m sorry I was still a shy lurker and never got to “talk” to him, but I loved ‘reading’ him.

          • PickAnotherID

            Since ‘Aftermath’ started, I’ve been inviting friends and neighbors over to watch, who haven’t been following $cientology’s shenanigans for years, to get their reactions. Disjointed as it may have been, last night their reaction to Yingling calling Serge’s story a lie was, “Who’s got the tars and feathers? That b*tch needs a ride out of town on a rail.”

            So don’t be too disappointed. Yingling did almost as much damage to $cientology as the exes stories and the ‘Sec Check’ sheets. Which is another thing, my Catholic neighbors were, “That’s not how confession is supposed to work!” They couldn’t believe $cientology has printed “confessional” question sheets with those kind of questions on them.

        • Ella Raitch

          Totally agree on 2 – getting someone to speak on camera from the church is a story. Haven’t watched it yet but one thing that does piss me off is ABC suggesting that critics are in this for the profit, walking the middle line when any serious investigation shows the preponderance of evidence supports critics. I understand that editorial decisions will have been made in order to secure Yingling’s on-camera participation, but it’s egregious to call suspect the motives of people who go public at enormous personal cost.
          Dan Harris is a big boy – I doubt our chattering on the fringes of the internet matter if he’s clear what is in his mind and his heart

          • she’s an obvious liar…. but she did get to appear, and concessions were likely made to secure her cooperation. If nothing else, her dissembling replaced a lot of potentially damaging testimony.

            These things have changed the nature of the programme, which could have been much worse. It’s not possible, at this point, to turn it around and make the CofS look positive – but she did achieve some damage control. That should not be underestimated.

            • PickAnotherID

              Yingling’s dissembling may have replaced potentially damaging testimony, but it also did an enormous amount of damage to $cientology among the general public. More than I think a lot of long term critics realize.

            • Draco

              I agree.

      • Ron Schmidt

        I especially agree with your comment “they always seem to back off a little bit” leaving the conversation with a kind of he said/she said ending. Like why was any time spent on Leah R’s salary, Monique Y. is getting paid (handsomely I’m sure), Dan Harris is getting paid. And why can’t the church speak for themselves, why do they need an attorney to speak for them, I think Dan could have made an issue out of that. Also when Monique claimed all the ppl protesting the church are acting or in it for money, well if these people are acting they deserve an academy award, not to mention this is a pattern that has gone on since the beginning of the church for crying out loud. Anyway I really think looking at the big picture the show overall was really bad press (black PR ….lol) for CO$, I don’t see how any rational person could come away from the show without seeing the CO$ in a pretty dim light.

  • Kay (aka Nasty Lady)

    Worst idea ever putting Monique Yingaling on as the church’s spokesperson. If you are going to lie and make a living at it by working for someone worth 3 billion dollars, you’d better be really good at it. Tommy Davis was a very talented prevaricator, truly. That’s kind of what made him fascinating to watch. (“Xenu, John? Really, that story about OT III you have just makes you sound insane, it’s ridiculous”, said while using a steady gaze, no blinking and with total conviction and derision) Monique is just a terrible liar. I’m not sure what that says about her. Either she is so uncomfortable lying about this that she just can’t do it effectively, or she’s getting worried about everything going south and getting pulled into an endless morass of legal problems and trying to save herself, or she’s sold her soul for money and is now starting to realize it….or I don’t know. Whatever it is, worst Scio PR job ever so far IMO.

    • Frodis73

      Lawyers are supposed to be good liars too. She is just awful at it.

      • Kay (aka Nasty Lady)

        ITA. It’s kind of stunning.

    • Jack99

      I’m reading comments on ABC 20/20’s facebookpage, and lots of people mention the blinking and not believing a word she says. Hope she stays on!

    • FredEX2

      Completely agree. The more air time they gave Yingling…the worse she and Scientology looked. Absolutely no credibility at all.

  • Missionary Kid

    Monique; I SEE NOTHING.

  • bbock

    Here’s hoping A&E renews the show for a longer season. There are so many more stories to tell. They could do an hour just on Paulette Cooper. Then there’s Astra Woodcraft. Tory Christman. Jason Beghe. Jenna Miscavige Hill. Jamie DeWolf. And of course, Lisa McPherson. So many people that I’ve never heard of too.

  • lisalupin

    Just watching 2020 from last night. Yingling is useless at telling lies. It’s so obvious she is a big liar. Keep her speaking for you David VILEcabbage… it’s totally working in our favour.

  • Newiga

    I just watched the show and and Dan asking Serge something like “Why didn’t you tell them that I’m uncomfortable with this. I’m too young.” bothered me a lot. A kid is not mature enough to decide what’s age appropriate and what’s not. That’s what adults are for. 😒😡

    • Yeah! How the ferck should he know at that time. Now he is an adult and realize – WTF? just happen back then 🙂

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Serge, as a committed Scientologist at the time, would have believed he was not a callow youth, but rather an infinitely old Thetan with the ability to handle anything. Age appropriate? For someone in the midst of a billion year contract? Surely you jest!

      • PickAnotherID

        He actually explained that to Dan at one point. My neighbors about fell out of their chairs when he did.

    • Draco

      I also just watched. I see they didn’t get into the real horror of Serge’s life in the Sea Org, which is the focus of Tony’s article above. Hopefully there will be a season 2 and Leah could do a more in-depth interview with him.
      As for Ms Blinky, she does the church more harm than good. And using the Catholic church stuff about kids? WTF was that? Has she been living under a rock? All that said to me is that people leave their kids in the hands of a church all the time and that people trust churches not to harm them. If she were defending his parents for their actions of leaving him in the hands of CoS, then it would make sense. But that backfired big time IMO.
      Tick Tock Davey … this is not going to stop. And you need to find a better spokesperson. This one sucks and judging from comments online, she is totally unbelievable. The world is moving into your secret world and sees you. And there is nothing you can do to stop it.

      • Newiga

        Davey’s decision to use a non-scientologist catholic lawyer to represent the church amuses me. I suppose there’s no one else left he would trust to do the job. And it is A VERY difficult job, I give them that.

        Yingling looked very poorly and tired to me and her using catholic church as an example for the treatment of kids is yet another footbullet.

    • madame duran

      To me, it was similar to the “So why didn’t you just get up and leave the cult?” question that many ex-members are asked. The assumption is that you have the power (will power, maturity, legal right, etc.) to change or object to something, not realizing that the cult holds all the power in the adherent’s mind. Transferring from a world of dependence on the cult to a life of independence is a major mental leap. In the case of maturity, since minors lack enough life experience and judgment, the power for decision-making rests with their parents until the minor is old enough to assume that power for themselves. We condition children to follow rules of those in authority (parents, teachers, clergy, police officers, etc.) and warn them that any disobedience would lead to discipline…so why would a child feel they could object to what ADULTS IN AUTHORITY are instructing him to do?

      • Kestrel

        Well said.

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    Hi everybody! Did I miss anything today?

    Seriously, 20/20 was just amazing tonight, and Ms. Yingling gave a sterling performance. I have been enjoying the discussion thread over at the 20/20 Facebook page. Monique has an anti-fan club!
    https://www.facebook.com/pg/ABC2020/posts/?ref=page_internal

    I also could not resist posting one of the more amusing comments. Read this one all the way through:
    Lea is a lion, I was shocked to see Tom Cruise saluting Miscavich. This isn’t a church… this is a cult….. these people are mind blowers, and their followers are weak…. so sad to see so many people so lost that they have to follow a single man, not a bible to try to get through life, that’s why they will fail… So much made up crap…..I suspect they are all liberal too.

    • Ella Raitch

      Those liberals are the devil!

    • Draco

      Oh boy…

    • i have seen trump supporters branding Scientologist as communists – kids!

    • AntoniaW

      Yep, loving the FB thread. 20/20 may have been disappointing to $cilon watchers, but the audience clearly saw Leah for the voice of truth that she is and the Cult for the screwed-up fiction that it is. One typical comment: “wow! this lawyer from Scientology, is on the best meds………as a clinician, i wonder what they are? and body language: look at her eyes.—–OMG< she is in such denial. and paid well."

      Overwhelming Leah-support is what comes across.

    • Ella Raitch

      Rae S James I just watched the scenes and as a trained human lie detector the scientologist woman that was being interviewed blinked her eyes 42 times in 15 second clip in just the scenes she is a liar from where ever scientology comes from.

      • Username

        Doesn’t anyone know Morse code? Maybe MY is trying to send us a secret message with her blinks….”I am lying through my teeth but I get paid very well. Girls gotta eat.”

  • Someone who recorded this check me on this.
    At one point I swear I saw Ying’s eyes blinking independently of each other.

    • Draco

      She’s OT Blink Tech – AKA OT BT ;P

    • it’s on you tube

  • Reviews here are mixed.
    One measure of its impact is how Scientology sees it
    They no like.

    • Draco

      I think how the public at large see it is also important. And they are definitely not buying into Yingling and scn’s bullshit.

      • PickAnotherID

        If my neighbors are any indication, not even a little bit. Especially when they actually read some of the “SecCheck” questions for 6-14 year olds off the sheet for themselves, then heard Yingling’s BS response to it. It’s a good thing she wasn’t in the same room as them.

      • Yeah, its impossible to see this without the filter of deep background.
        The images, tone, questions, have effects beyond the content.

        • Kestrel

          I asked a friend to watch the episode because I root for “Team Stop the Abuse.”

    • scottmercer

      The mere fact that Scientology won’t speak up for themselves and sends an attorney to be interviewed speaks volumes to many people. Classic gangster tactic. The secondary fact that Muffins is a total stereotype of an attorney, personifying so many of the traits that people hate about attorneys, is another strike against the Church (not against her so much, because hey, a dog will bite you, it’s what dogs do).

  • Draco

    I wonder how many scientologists watched this show, despite being told not to. And how many of them saw the lies, because they have themselves been in those course rooms with children being bullbaited just as described. And how many people who had been sec-checked by Serge, know the church is lying through their teeth about all of this.
    Hopefully, just as the forced abortions and stories about The Hole put an end to those practices, so will this spotlight on the treatment of children make a difference to the lives of children still in.
    I think the next series should focus totally on children in the Sea Org. the hours they work, the lack of education, the treatment they get from adults who treat them as adults, their living conditions etc etc.
    Maybe that would cause the practice of recruiting children onto staff and into the sea org to stopped.

    • PickAnotherID

      Or better, get the FBI off the dime about looking into underage kids being sent across state lines to be put through $cientology’s abuse.

  • John Prince

    I’d love to see the expression on some 13 yr. Old Kid’s face after hearing intimate details about my sexual expèriences 👀..NO, Seriously 😂😆😅 I’m really still sulking in the corner, deeply upset because osa didn’t pick up on my chilling SuperWog out-of-Body experience that took place on an elevator one day. . (Shorpy was OT enough to award me with a special curtiffikit which,of course,is the new Center-Piece of my Ego Wall..but,,, 《yawn》,,,,with that “sert” AND 50 cents, I can get into a public toilet ) I was Hoping osa would forward my written testamonial straight to Freedumm magazine, that I might rub elbows with some Big-League OT’s in the phenomaniac section but no, either our osa monitors were asleep at the switch last week or they’re DELIBERATLY snubbing me 😡! !!@#$@ either way, my feathers are quite ruffled here and the only thing that will cheer me up is news about Leah’s 2 week foot-dragging period by LAPD or about powell’s “other” Laptop locked away at WAPD … { sniffle}

    • scottmercer

      “a device invented by L. Ron Hubbard…” CORRECTION: a device invented by someone else that Hubbard stole credit for.

  • $cnMonkeyNut$

    H’mmm… Blinky, effective representative of the Grade 0 release… https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4d9727bedb5359606bd30c2717fdf9dde9a6ed72699fa81aaffcb9fc071743ca.jpg … NOT!:)

    • Ella Raitch

      How did you manage to find a photo with open eyes?

      • $cnMonkeyNut$

        using ultra slo-mo and an itchy alt-prtsc button combo…… and plenty of patience 🙂

  • Mick Roberts

    Watching again, and actually seeing how ridiculous Yingling is looking, I now understand why CoS has not actually given a public interview since Leah and Mike’s A&E show. She’s a freakin’ disaster man.

    I also now understand why they need a wog to do these interviews, because no high level Scientologist who actually knows the truth and probably would have to be temporarily released from The Hole could withstand the scrutiny, and may even publicly, on-camera, beg the interviewer to help them blow and completely spill the beans with all of the most recent details of abuse. If that happens, and this person files a police report within the statute of limitations, Miscavige is done. It’s a risk he can’t take, since everyone but him, LRH, and BFF Cruise are SP’s anyway.

  • Silence of the Clams

    Congratulations Scientology on your epic fail in putting MS Yingling in front of the camera. Nothing quite like picking, perhaps the most unbelievable personality possible to defend your cult.
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/71d731e4a9a6300c2f790189fbde8922098dfdad452a65d009fd88400cef36b7.jpg

  • RedShoeLady

    We just have to keep plugging at it. Tell everyone you know. http://www.youcaring.com is a free fundraising site btw.

    • Never_in

      Hi RedShoeLady, I just checked out this fundraising site which I had not heard of and was glad to see all the humanitarian work there. Was this a general comment or was there something on the site that referred to CoS?

      • RedShoeLady

        Thanks for the question. I always recommend http://www.youcaring.com as an alternative to GoFundMe – learned too late once when I ran a GFM campaign and paid a ton of fees. 100% of your donations go to their intended cause. Well, except those PayPal fees which are rightfully theirs but GFM takes a cut too which YC does not.

        • Never_in

          Thanks for that explanation. I did not know about any of that. I hope others will see your reply as well for future plans in fundraising.

  • ginger1981

    IMHO it looked like Monique was phoning it in. She looked visibly uncomfortable as if she didn’t want to be there. I though she was not convincing at all.

    $ci should spend their money elsewhere, but I’m more than happy to let them waste their ca$h on a half a$$ed lawyer.

  • Ann B Watson

    I just watched Leah and Serge and I am so behind what is coming out and what Leah is doing.As for that ding dong ding a ling attorney,blink or no blink those layers of false eyelashes will bite you every time! Zero credibility and very Cold No-Soul.Good try Miscavige.❤️💛

  • KTBug

    After viewing 20/20 episode, I can’t help but wonder: Where is the LGBT Community support for Serge and other scientologists who may not fit the perceived ideal Thetan of LRH and COB?

  • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

    Mike Reppen of the limited access “Outer Banks” facebook group, is one person who was truly exceptionally skilled, to do the C/S 53 assessement. Mike did my C/S 53 Long Form to “F/Ning” list assessment.

    That’s gobbly gook I know, and it’s crank-crackpot gobbly gook to boot!

    My someday big wish, I wish an informed “tech” person, would interview Mike and Karen de la Carriere, as those two were experts in Scientology practice.

    A paper ought be done on the C/S 53, and on the GF 40XXX lists, they are summaries of so much crank crackpot Scientology, it’s mind total overwhelm befuddling.

    That Serge Gil did a perfect assessment is truly high level skill within the crank-crackpot world of the Hubbard Ouija-Board-Emeter skills!

    Hats off to Serge for that, even as crank as it was, it was still a spectaculer feat of cult history.

    To graduate several of the Flag internships, in crank-quack-Hubbard-counseling-pseudo-therapy, one has to perform in session, a “F/Ning” of whole lists, which is just incredible stamina and presence of mind and the perfect “session” running by the crank-Scientology-auditor-pseudo-therapist.

    Hubbard’s all time famous demands for his crackpot counselor-auditors is just as extreme as Hubbard’s hype, and the student trainees at Flag, Clearwater, are demanded to rise up to that level of “presence” and “TRs” (drilled session communication skills).

    As crank as Scientology is, it’s intense, and the long runway that builds their crank counselors is so intense, that the journey and all the pitfalls along the way, are just the vast number of the stories.

    But attaining the highest level “approved” (video verification) quack-counselor skills, today, it is just Robert Jay Lifton’s totalism list of points on STERIODS. It’s a long journey into the detailed world.

    I so thank Serge for going public, and he forwent his youth to become so skilled in the Hubbard crank, it’s unspeakably years of emotional human warping all for the Hubbard Ouija-Board-Emeter snipe hunting for false past life memories and for supposedly exorcising Xenu’s “body-thetans”, none of which are real, all in peoples’ minds and dreams only.)

    • Ms.P

      Well said Chuck it does take incredible stamina and skill to achieve top status as an auditor, I know I’m a measly Class IV auditor. Kudos to Serge for that and Serge kudos for getting out and having the balls to speak out now.

      • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

        Well you did at least have to do some L4BRB’s didn’t you? List correction is not a walk in the crank-therapy-quack-therapy park?

        I received all the various correction lists, and they were fun to receive, but there is no question it was all quack detailed stuff. Much better to read books and get adult education, my view, today.

  • Always Amazed

    Holy moley…2500 posts…can someone point me in the direction where we talk about Dan Harris the asshole? What a total dickhead. This is all ABC could pull out for this 20/20? I would’ve had a hard time not throwing that glass of water in his face, Leah has more restraint than a human should require.

  • Shivani33

    The 20/20 program was an unfortunate piece of denatured bread with the grains left out on the cutting room floor. Serge Gil has summoned the courage to detail what he went through as a kid in scientology, a kid whose proficient mind was exploited and used to put him into constant situations of giving hours-long sexual interrogation to adults. There is no way that Serge, as a youngster, was capable of handling this subject matter. He was being mentally and emotionally abused in a sexual way, under the auspices of a recognized, sanctioned, tax-free “religion.” He was subjected to a degree of sexual exploitation which would be extremely difficult for non-professionally trained adults to endure. For the rest of his life, he’ll need to make room inside himself for the pain, the anger and the boundary-less confusion which Scientology handed to him. My heart goes out to Serge and my respect.

    One of the toughest parts of being abused is that the abuse itself can be nearly impossible to see or to recognize. There is a huge tendency for self-blame. Especially if the one or ones giving the abuse are those who are in the role of authority – the adults, the teachers, the doctors and the priests, those who are given our trust and then violate that trust. Serge Gil, like all of those who are abused, pays and pays for a crime not committed by him, but for the crimes committed against him as an unprotected child. Monique Yingling, who represents scientology, is a mother and grandmother and an attorney. How can she live with herself, denying and defending and justifying unconscionable and inhumane horror, hypocrisy and perversion, coming from a “church?”

    Serge Gil’s experience was not really brought to light by 20/20’s segment about him. But maybe it is for the best, in that he is unlikely to be ready to handle this degree of exposure to the public, so many of whom would not be able to give him the understanding which he deserves and needs. The public does deserve to hear that Serge’s experience as a child of Scientology is not unique. There are uncounted details of individual abuse within the fold of scientology. It would take a set of encyclopedias to begin to contain it all. There are many, many people of all ages who have suffered and still are suffering, with little or no help. This tax-free “religion” has its very own system of concentration camp imprisonment. How criminal can it get and yet still continue to be denied, overlooked and given the sanction to continue?

    The ideals presented by Scientology are diametrically opposed to what is being practiced by its leadership. Notice that only a non-scientologist tax lawyer was used to offer rebuttal during 20/20’s “show.” Apparently no practicing member of the religion chose or was allowed to speak on its behalf. Where was David Miscavige, the organization’s leader? Was he too busy planning the erections of empty Scientology centers or counting up the interest on all of the money which he has gathered and is somewhat obligated to spend? When, by the way, is someone going to be given the opportunity to confront him about his own refusal to practice the tenets of Scientology while he sits in his ivory tower? And when will he be encountered about the beatings which he delivers to others, the imprisonments, the separations of families, even the absolute disappearance of members of his totalitarian enterprise?

  • BronxLaurie10

    It’s so incredibly sad to see Mike Rinder’s children saying those horrible things about him. And I’m sure they know, as they are saying these things, that they are not true.

    *sigh*

    • Ann B Watson

      I understand BronxLaurie10,good to meet you too.Mike is an incredibly strong Light but even the best of us break at times when facing Disconnection.He has such a wonderful wife and two darling handsome sons & he is kicking alot more than just Miscavige’s behind.I always hope those in will look up and see how they are imprisoned within the bubble,it is my hope the sun will break through their illusions of saving and clearing the planet.Been tried,Flunk.💔❤️

  • GeorgeJ1952

    I do not have cable, so had to wait until I could watch 20/20 show in Hulu (not an advertisment!).

    This probably will not get seen, but I felt I needed to say something about three seperate things about the show’s players.

    Number one is Monique Yingling: She is answering (or deflecting) the question about Miscavige beating staff. Yingaling answers with “David Miscavige demands alot from his subordinates” ?
    Wait, I thought they were all called “Parishoners”, subordinates sounds more like a business to me, but what do I know?

    Two, what the hell is up with Yingaling’s eyes? That flutter thing she’s got going there, maybe she does that when she lies? Kinda like a tick people get when they are not doing the right thing and the body rebels?

    Three, and most important: Serge. That man brought me to tears, I felt so much empathy and sympathy for what was stolen from him. He is the embodiment of every one of the thousands of children and teenagers that the CO$ has stolen and then thrown away to the four winds, when they were no longer needed or were kicked to the streets if they did not get with the program.

    Okay, comment over. I shall go back to my corner now 🙂

  • TechTrained

    This is a common story. I took confessions from adult men as a teenaged girl. It seemed completely normal to us at the time. I feel pretty rotten, slowly learning that the general populace is outraged at so many things that I thought were totally normal.

  • littlefish

    Interesting that benedict I mean he who shall not be named was referenced BY NAME and by his total 180 in action.

  • littlefish

    Also, that Mike’s daughter would say “I never saw my dad, I thought he hated me” (I’m paraphrasing) makes me so angry. Of course you never saw him, his church, your church, doesn’t believe in familial bonds, so they kept you separate on purpose. They worked him to the bone, and fed you bullshit about his character. I’m hoping one day you wake up and reconnect with him.